Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

The FA and SFA do take a different view but in this instance it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

The FA are willing to accept a newco in the same division if the creditors of the oldco are satisfied, as Portsmouth's were (this is what Trevor Birch was alluding to when he said things are different up here, ie. Hearts need to transfer shares, not just agree a CVA):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8746162.stm

However, if creditors are unsatisfied, the FA treats the newco quite differently, as per Darlington:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington_1883

Sevco are a newco following a refused CVA, so wouldn't have been allowed to "stay" in the SPL even under FA rules.

Cheers for that.

Reading the Wikipedia page on Darlington, then, had RFC been an English club (yeah, I know :greengrin), it would follow that they would have had their history removed by the FA?

[lord bunberry]

I don't know much about the Rotherham story, but there's little difference between Portsmouth and Rangers. Both clubs had their business taken over by Newco's. The major difference, though, is that Portsmouth were allowed to remain in the same League. That's because the SFA and FA view such events differently.

I thought Portsmouth's newco came after their second administration

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm still very sceptical about the claim that TRFC will go into administration this week, for a number of reasons:-

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent?

3. why would the club do it now, and risk a 25 point penalty, when they have a 24 point lead? Surely better to do a Hearts and wait for the close season, or (better still) when they can't be caught before the end of the season.

4. the claim about getting out of expensive contracts, which seems to be the main justification that is being touted. I am no employment law expert, and would welcome the view of any on here who are; my amateur reading of TUPE regulations tells me that the new owners of the club would find it very difficult to justify not taking on the TRFC playing staff, let alone trying to cut their wages. So, again, why do it at all?

It's notable that Dave King agrees with me, though I am not sure that's something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Willing to be shot down.....indeed, hoping. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I'm still very sceptical about the claim that TRFC will go into administration this week, for a number of reasons:-

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent?

3. why would the club do it now, and risk a 25 point penalty, when they have a 24 point lead? Surely better to do a Hearts and wait for the close season, or (better still) when they can't be caught before the end of the season.

4. the claim about getting out of expensive contracts, which seems to be the main justification that is being touted. I am no employment law expert, and would welcome the view of any on here who are; my amateur reading of TUPE regulations tells me that the new owners of the club would find it very difficult to justify not taking on the TRFC playing staff, let alone trying to cut their wages. So, again, why do it at all?

It's notable that Dave King agrees with me, though I am not sure that's something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Willing to be shot down.....indeed, hoping. :greengrin

With Number 2. They have taken security over some assets so won't lose either way.
Also the contracts they may want out of could be more commercial in nature? Maybe catering or merchandising?
Not sure but it will be fun if it happens.

[HoboHarry]

I'm still very sceptical about the claim that TRFC will go into administration this week, for a number of reasons:-

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent?

3. why would the club do it now, and risk a 25 point penalty, when they have a 24 point lead? Surely better to do a Hearts and wait for the close season, or (better still) when they can't be caught before the end of the season.

4. the claim about getting out of expensive contracts, which seems to be the main justification that is being touted. I am no employment law expert, and would welcome the view of any on here who are; my amateur reading of TUPE regulations tells me that the new owners of the club would find it very difficult to justify not taking on the TRFC playing staff, let alone trying to cut their wages. So, again, why do it at all?

It's notable that Dave King agrees with me, though I am not sure that's something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Willing to be shot down.....indeed, hoping. :greengrin

I am no finance expert but here is my tuppence worth.

1) The amount they borrowed is small change in the big scheme of things and there have been suggestions that the amount is to help finance the administration. If they struggled to find that amount they really are in trouble.
2) The financiers now have security on Edminston House and the Albion car park I believe. They can't lose at this point.
3) Isn't the penalty better now if they believe they can still win the league? Personally I think they will struggle particularly if they shed the top players
4) Will it not be the call of the admins as to who is bulleted? Swally may be in danger too if that is the case. It seems clear to me their needs to be some serious cost cutting and I can't see another way other than admin if they are struggling to find any decent level of financial help.

Again - I am not a finance guy like you but it seems to me that they are in a world of financial poo......

[PatHead]

Not feeling too good today and came on here to rest the grey matter but how about?

I'm still very sceptical about the claim that TRFC will go into administration this week, for a number of reasons:-

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance? Are the loans not secured thus making them secured creditors?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent? To take pole position in the new (post admin) club?

3. why would the club do it now, and risk a 25 point penalty, when they have a 24 point lead? Surely better to do a Hearts and wait for the close season, or (better still) when they can't be caught before the end of the season. When did reason ever come in to this? Maybe arrogance which they have in abundance.

4. the claim about getting out of expensive contracts, which seems to be the main justification that is being touted. I am no employment law expert, and would welcome the view of any on here who are; my amateur reading of TUPE regulations tells me that the new owners of the club would find it very difficult to justify not taking on the TRFC playing staff, let alone trying to cut their wages. So, again, why do it at all? You win why ?

It's notable that Dave King agrees with me, though I am not sure that's something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Willing to be shot down.....indeed, hoping. :greengrin

[jonty]

tsk tsk tsk. Its a newco, so only 15pts (or it might be 1/3 of last years points which would make it 28 pts)

[grunt]

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent?
Has the new investment been paid over to Rangers, or was it just agreed to be paid? If the latter, I'd expect there would be get out clauses in the event of a significant change in the company, such as administration.

[CropleyWasGod]

tsk tsk tsk. Its a newco, so only 15pts (or it might be 1/3 of last years points which would make it 28 pts)

The 1/3 rule doesn't apply any more, since the SPFL took over.

However:-

E5
Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event
which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers
or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15
points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points.

[Caversham Green]

I'm still very sceptical about the claim that TRFC will go into administration this week, for a number of reasons:-

1. why would they do it when they have just arranged a deal for finance?

2. why would the financiers, who presumably have more of an insight into TRFC's situation than we have, agree to a deal if administration was obvious and imminent?

3. why would the club do it now, and risk a 25 point penalty, when they have a 24 point lead? Surely better to do a Hearts and wait for the close season, or (better still) when they can't be caught before the end of the season.

4. the claim about getting out of expensive contracts, which seems to be the main justification that is being touted. I am no employment law expert, and would welcome the view of any on here who are; my amateur reading of TUPE regulations tells me that the new owners of the club would find it very difficult to justify not taking on the TRFC playing staff, let alone trying to cut their wages. So, again, why do it at all?

It's notable that Dave King agrees with me, though I am not sure that's something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Willing to be shot down.....indeed, hoping. :greengrin

On the TUPE point, that only applies when it's a new company taking over the operations of an old one - as happened when Sevco took over the Rangers franchise. In this case Sevco (who now call themselves Rangers) would presumably emerge as the same company so the employees would simply be made redundant.

[jonty]

The 1/3 rule doesn't apply any more, since the SPFL took over.

However:-

E5
Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event
which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers
or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15
points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points.

You missed

E5.2
Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event
which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers
or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the club shall also be referred to as 'The The' clubname and the dirty thieving cheating ****bag ******** ****ers will be demoted to the amateur leagues as they clearly haven't got a ****ing clue.
:agree: Its true, I read it on the internet.


I wonder what they have planned for a 3rd insolvency event.

[CropleyWasGod]

On the TUPE point, that only applies when it's a new company taking over the operations of an old one - as happened when Sevco took over the Rangers franchise. In this case Sevco (who now call themselves Rangers) would presumably emerge as the same company so the employees would simply be made redundant.

Fair point, but what about redundancy costs? Or do fixed-term contracts not have them? If they don't, would the remainder of the players' contracts be payable?

[Caversham Green]

Fair point, but what about redundancy costs? Or do fixed-term contracts not have them? If they don't, would the remainder of the players' contracts be payable?

They'd become creditors - and you know what happens to creditors in an administration.

[jonty]

They'd become creditors - and you know what happens to creditors in an administration.

It doesn't count as a football debt, and the easy bucks that the players thought they would be making suddenly doesn't look like complete bull****?

Have they been paying their players and PAYE or been doing a 'whytie' and withholding? I'm sure they're not that stupid.

[CropleyWasGod]

They'd become creditors - and you know what happens to creditors in an administration.

This is where I'm struggling.

AFAIK, there aren't any significant creditors, not like in the previous situation or the Hearts one. So there is a greater spread of smaller creditors, including the usual suspects, like HMRC, Council, tradesmen etc., but also including a hefty chunk of pissed-off players.

How sure would they be that a CVA would get the 75%? HMRC would vote against, as would all those players who had just been dumped, presumably.

[Caversham Green]

This is where I'm struggling.

AFAIK, there aren't any significant creditors, not like in the previous situation or the Hearts one. So there is a greater spread of smaller creditors, including the usual suspects, like HMRC, Council, tradesmen etc., but also including a hefty chunk of pissed-off players.

How sure would they be that a CVA would get the 75%? HMRC would vote against, as would all those players who had just been dumped, presumably.

Hard to say, but as with any administration the creditors would be given the choice of keechpence in the pound or nothing.

BTW, I'm not convinced it's going to happen, just examining the possibility. Anyway didn't Fill Ma Gullible tell us it was happening today?

[CropleyWasGod]

With Number 2. They have taken security over some assets so won't lose either way.
Also the contracts they may want out of could be more commercial in nature? Maybe catering or merchandising?
Not sure but it will be fun if it happens.

That did cross my mind, actually. Maybe we're all missing the point by talking about players' contracts. If that's the case, though, they must be pretty horrendous contracts if they have to go to the lengths of admin to get out of them.

On the security, which is fair comment of course... I thought I read (and it may have been Phil McGubbin, so I'm not sure how credible it is) that part of the funding deal was.... if the company goes into admin, the lenders get additional shares in the restructured company.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hard to say, but as with any administration the creditors would be given the choice of keechpence in the pound or nothing.

BTW, I'm not convinced it's going to happen, just examining the possibility. Anyway didn't Fill Ma Gullible tell us it was happening today?

Think he said there was a Board meeting today, and it would happen on Wednesday.

It's worth pointing out that, as you'll know, talk of insolvency often hastens it. Suppliers get nervous and demand earlier payment than normal.... etc etc. This may be Phil's ploy. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

You missed

:agree: Its true, I read it on the internet.


I wonder what they have planned for a 3rd insolvency event.

They get to keep....eh.......... something.

[PatHead]

That did cross my mind, actually. Maybe we're all missing the point by talking about players' contracts. If that's the case, though, they must be pretty horrendous contracts if they have to go to the lengths of admin to get out of them.

On the security, which is fair comment of course... I thought I read (and it may have been Phil McGubbin, so I'm not sure how credible it is) that part of the funding deal was.... if the company goes into admin, the lenders get additional shares in the restructured company.

Bonuses for winning the league based on SPL figures perhaps? If the Finance Director got a fortune last year wonder what players get? Could be a few million saved.

[CropleyWasGod]

Bonuses for winning the league based on SPL figures perhaps? If the Finance Director got a fortune last year wonder what players get? Could be a few million saved.

Interesting model.

Go into admin.... take 25 point hit....league not won, so bonuses (Boni?:confused:) not payable....get promotion through the play offs... keep players on... institute same bonus scheme for the Championship... build up massive lead... go into admin again.... etc etc.

It's a long shot, but it might just work....

http://chewits.co.uk/chews/the-muncher-menace-part-5/

[PatHead]

Maybe we should follow it, cunning as a fox with 2 tails to quote Blackadder
Interesting model.

Go into admin.... take 25 point hit....league not won, so bonuses (Boni?:confused:) not payable....get promotion through the play offs... keep players on... institute same bonus scheme for the Championship... build up massive lead... go into admin again.... etc etc.

It's a long shot, but it might just work....

http://chewits.co.uk/chews/the-muncher-menace-part-5/

[Sergio sledge]

This is where I'm struggling.

AFAIK, there aren't any significant creditors, not like in the previous situation or the Hearts one. So there is a greater spread of smaller creditors, including the usual suspects, like HMRC, Council, tradesmen etc., but also including a hefty chunk of pissed-off players.

How sure would they be that a CVA would get the 75%? HMRC would vote against, as would all those players who had just been dumped, presumably.

could the loans be an effort to get the 75% of "friendly" creditors by running up a quick £3m debt just prior to admin?

[CropleyWasGod]

could the loans be an effort to get the 75% of "friendly" creditors by running up a quick £3m debt just prior to admin?

They're secured so they wouldn't get a vote in the CVA.

[AndyM_1875]

Have a feeling this 2nd Administration is nothing more than the fantasy wet dream dribblings of a certain hysterical, axe grinding Irish based blogger who for some reason is still indulged by Alex Thomson.

Rangers board have invited Dave King in for talks btw regarding his recent comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26420403

[HoboHarry]

Have a feeling this 2nd Administration is nothing more than the fantasy wet dream dribblings of a certain hysterical, axe grinding Irish based blogger who for some reason is still indulged by Alex Thomson.

Rangers board have invited Dave King in for talks btw regarding his recent comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26420403
Perhaps they are - but i would suggest that any organisation taking loans under the conditions they have are likely to be in financial bother

[jacomo]

Have a feeling this 2nd Administration is nothing more than the fantasy wet dream dribblings of a certain hysterical, axe grinding Irish based blogger who for some reason is still indulged by Alex Thomson.

Rangers board have invited Dave King in for talks btw regarding his recent comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26420403

As you and CWG have said, Rangers are clearly in a spot of difficulty but the loans will surely see them through until the season ticket money starts rolling in again... Whoah! No wonder they've invited Mr K for a meeting! If his campaign gains traction with the supporters then the club really will be in the brown stuff

[greenginger]

There accounts were due to be with Companies House on 28th February.

What's the hold up ?

[SteveHFC]

Terry Butcher is a clown :agree:

Take back what i said :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

There accounts were due to be with Companies House on 28th February.

What's the hold up ?

Sometimes it takes a few days or so to get them displayed.

[greenginger]

Sometimes it takes a few days or so to get them displayed.


I see Philip Nash has now been appointed as club/company secretary. I thought he was just brought in to do a review of the business ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I see Philip Nash has now been appointed as club/company secretary. I thought he was just brought in to do a review of the business ?

Sorry, you're right about the accounts. They are overdue.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/317-new-loan-offer-made-to-rangers

[GreenLake]

http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/317-new-loan-offer-made-to-rangers

A textbook example of throwing good money after bad

[Finbar]

You know when rangers applied to join the league as a new club. And they were supposed to have three years accounts but they didn't, so they were given a conditional membership. Well, does anyone know what the conditions were? Because whatever they were they seen to be struggling to meet them.

[Weststandwanab]

You know when rangers applied to join the league as a new club. And they were supposed to have three years accounts but they didn't, so they were given a conditional membership. Well, does anyone know what the conditions were? Because whatever they were they seen to be struggling to meet them. I do not know but that is a good point.

[truehibernian]

A textbook example of throwing good money after bad

I think it's doomed to fail given he's used the word 'transparent' - The Rangers seem to struggle with that word.

[Mr White]

You know when rangers applied to join the league as a new club. And they were supposed to have three years accounts but they didn't, so they were given a conditional membership. Well, does anyone know what the conditions were? Because whatever they were they seen to be struggling to meet them.

Pretty sure their full membership was passed quietly last year when the sfl and spl combined to become the spfl. If so I'd imagine the conditions placed in 2012 would have been removed.

[ballengeich]

A textbook example of throwing good money after bad

Also, Laxey will have spent a significant sum on professional services to get the contract drawn up and would spend more cancelling it. Add in possible lost opportunity costs and I think they'll be looking for compensation - £150,000 might just about cover it.

[CropleyWasGod]

You know when rangers applied to join the league as a new club. And they were supposed to have three years accounts but they didn't, so they were given a conditional membership. Well, does anyone know what the conditions were? Because whatever they were they seen to be struggling to meet them.

The "conditional membership" you mention was of the SFA, which was granted temporarily to enable them to fulfil a Scottish Cup tie. At that time, they were still in discussions with the SFA about the transfer of membership from the old company.

They now have Associate Membership of the SFA, which (IIRC) lasts three years.

They have full membership of the SPFL.

[jonty]

So. Monday came and went.
Wednesday has come and is almost over. and nowt.

disappointing but not unexpected.

[Seveno]

The "conditional membership" you mention was of the SFA, which was granted temporarily to enable them to fulfil a Scottish Cup tie. At that time, they were still in discussions with the SFA about the transfer of membership from the old company.

They now have Associate Membership of the SFA, which (IIRC) lasts three years.

They have full membership of the SPFL.

So if they have another insolvency event, will the lose their Associate Membership of the SFA and thus be unable to continue in the SPFL?

Or will SFA happen?

[AndyM_1875]

So. Monday came and went.
Wednesday has come and is almost over. and nowt.

disappointing but not unexpected.

It wasn't Rangers going into Administration , it was Phil. He's got the begging bowl out,
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/help-required-2/#more-4442

The line in Sellik minded hysteria & axe grinding can't be all that profitable after all.:wink:

[jonty]

It wasn't Rangers going into Administration , it was Phil. He's got the begging bowl out,
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/help-required-2/#more-4442

The line in Sellik minded hysteria & axe grinding can't be all that profitable after all.:wink:

If his site is falling over due to the amount of hits its taking then perhaps he needs to speak to Mikey about generating revenue :greengrin

[Eyrie]

If his site is falling over due to the amount of hits its taking then perhaps he needs to speak to Mikey about generating revenue :greengrin

It's very achievable if you have the right website (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leni-miller/is-rhett-butler-in-right-_1_b_4898574.html?utm_hp_ref=tw).


In mid-2003 Rhett added Google advertisements to his web site. Five months later, when revenue from the ads were nearly equivalent to his take home pay, Rhett thought "maybe I could pursue my passion for a living."

[stoobs]

I came across this earlier on. Pretty much sums up half of this thread!

http://www.fitbathatba.com/2014/02/ally-mccoist-is-awful.html

[jacomo]

I came across this earlier on. Pretty much sums up half of this thread!

http://www.fitbathatba.com/2014/02/ally-mccoist-is-awful.html

Swally is useless. You probably do need to spend that kind of money if you have him in charge.

[CropleyWasGod]

I came across this earlier on. Pretty much sums up half of this thread!

http://www.fitbathatba.com/2014/02/ally-mccoist-is-awful.html

You saying half of this thread is useless? :greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I see Davie Weir has come out and said (The) Rangers arnae getting the credit they deserve as they climb up the divisions. Are these muppets really as thick as they make themselves out to be or is it all a cunning ruse?

[Crazyhorse]

I see Davie Weir has come out and said (The) Rangers arnae getting the credit they deserve as they climb up the divisions. Are these muppets really as thick as they make themselves out to be or is it all a cunning ruse?

Have to say I agree with him for a club less than 2 years old they really are doing quite well....:greengrin

[Waxy]

I see Davie Weir has come out and said (The) Rangers arnae getting the credit they deserve as they climb up the divisions. Are these muppets really as thick as they make themselves out to be or is it all a cunning ruse?Suppose it's a godsend to them that they picked up the old Glasgow Rangers fans and also their old ground.These have to have helped.

[Weststandwanab]

Suppose it's a godsend to them that they picked up the old Glasgow Rangers fans and also their old ground.These have to have helped. The former.

[Billy Whizz]

Will this championship win not cost the club a lot of money on bonuses?

[Eyrie]

I see Davie Weir has come out and said (The) Rangers arnae getting the credit they deserve as they climb up the divisions. Are these muppets really as thick as they make themselves out to be or is it all a cunning ruse?

Given the rate that they're burning through money to beat part-time players, Sevco Huns will soon need all the credit they can get from Laxey just to avoid another administration.

[greenginger]

I see The Rangers accounts are now 2 weeks overdue, how long before the Petition to Strike-Off notice. :greengrin


Also, the Group Accounts have been published, you would think the football club figures must have been produced and included in those accounts so why not publish them ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I see The Rangers accounts are now 2 weeks overdue, how long before the Petition to Strike-Off notice. :greengrin


Also, the Group Accounts have been published, you would think the football club figures must have been produced and included in those accounts so why not publish them ?

IIRC, these are the first accounts for the football club, so Companies House will probably go easy on them. Unless the officer dealing with the case is a Sellik man :greengrin

Before striking a company off the register, the registrar is required to write two formal letters and send notice to the company's registered office to inquire whether it is still carrying on business or in operation. If he is satisfied that it is not, he will publish a notice in the relevant Gazette stating his intention to strike the company off the register unless he is shown reason not to do so.

A copy of the notice will be placed on the company's public record. If the registrar sees no reason to do otherwise, he will strike off the company not less than three months after the date of the notice. The company will be dissolved on publication of a further notice stating this in the relevant Gazette

As for the Group accounts, I agree. It's obviously a tactical ploy not to publish the Club accounts, lest a shecht-storm blows up.

[ScottB]

Can't wait for them to go into administration, get hit with a points total that will restart the title race, but have all the sevconians claim they are still the champions.

Because that's how their logic works, right? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't wait for them to go into administration, get hit with a points total that will restart the title race, but have all the sevconians claim they are still the champions.

Because that's how their logic works, right? :wink:

That would be nice, but I can't see it happening. The earliest would be the sooner of them getting an unassailable 25 point lead, or the end of the season.

If it does happen, I could see it being controlled to the extent that they come out before the start of next season.

However, that's the kind of scenario that Craig Whyte envisaged. :greengrin

[green glory]

This thread needs a bump.



12216

[GreenLake]

Looks like Sally wants to sign Shaun Hutchinson which is no big surprise really considering he is a dirty **** and well suited to the hun style of playing. THE rangers don't have much in the kitty so maybe it won't happen.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26665827

[Spike Mandela]

The Football League in England act promptly with the 'fit and proper' person test on owners and directors. How will the authorities up here fudge it for Dave King?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-utd/league-block-cellino-takeover-of-leeds-united-club-responds-1-6517814

[CropleyWasGod]

The Football League in England act promptly with the 'fit and proper' person test on owners and directors. How will the authorities up here fudge it for Dave King?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-utd/league-block-cellino-takeover-of-leeds-united-club-responds-1-6517814

Pretty sure that our test only includes officers, not owners.

[Spike Mandela]

Pretty sure that our test only includes officers, not owners.

Of course, that would make perfect sense for the Scottish authorities. Mother Theresa and Nelson Mandela on the board but Putin, Saddam Hussein, Hitler and Vladimir Romanov as owners.:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Of course, that would make perfect sense for the Scottish authorities. Mother Theresa and Nelson Mandela on the board but Putin, Saddam Hussein, Hitler and Vladimir Romanov as owners.:cb

:greengrin

I'm sure this has been a discussion on here before, but I can't remember what the conclusion was. Can't see anything obvious on the SFA site, either.

[AndyM_1875]

The Football League in England act promptly with the 'fit and proper' person test on owners and directors. How will the authorities up here fudge it for Dave King?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-utd/league-block-cellino-takeover-of-leeds-united-club-responds-1-6517814

King can buy the club and own it. There's nothing stopping that.

As CWG says however he may be prevented from being an officer of the club and may however not be able to be Chairman or represent the club at the SFA.

[Spike Mandela]

King can buy the club and own it. There's nothing stopping that.

As CWG says however he may be prevented from being an officer of the club and may however not be able to be Chairman or represent the club at the SFA.

King would be unlikely to invest money in The Rangers without being able to take a place on the board I would imagine.

[ballengeich]

King would be unlikely to invest money in The Rangers without being able to take a place on the board I would imagine.

Then there's the question of whether the existing board, who're trying to find a way of turning a loss-making business into something they can take a profit from, would want a director whose intention is to use any new capital on increasing wage costs. Only in football is that called investment.

[CropleyWasGod]

King would be unlikely to invest money in The Rangers without being able to take a place on the board I would imagine.

He would install his own people on the Board to protect his "hard-earned" :greengrin investment.

[Spike Mandela]

He would install his own people on the Board to protect his "hard-earned" investment.

So it is that simple to get round a 'fit and proper person test' then.:rolleyes: Begs the question-why bother having it CWG? The Scottish football authorities rules have consistently prove not 'fit and proper' for purpose in recent years.

[CropleyWasGod]

So it is that simple to get round a 'fit and proper person test' then.:rolleyes: Begs the question-why bother having it CWG? The Scottish football authorities rules have consistently prove not 'fit and proper' for purpose in recent years.

Oh, I'm with you on that.

There is a concept in Company Law called "shadow directors", which is what DK would be in this case. I'm not sure if the SFA rules cover them, but they should.

[jacomo]

Oh, I'm with you on that.

There is a concept in Company Law called "shadow directors", which is what DK would be in this case. I'm not sure if the SFA rules cover them, but they should.

:agree:

Vlad was never chairman of Hearts - he installed his idiot son in that role.

[Derek Dougan]

Accounts for 2013 are out if any bean counters are interested

http://announce.ft.com/Detail/?DocKey=1323-11905464-1P6TL31H20RM7C77TH86CA5NV0

21.2 million in bank at end of 2012
3.5 million in bank at end of 2013 :cb

[ballengeich]

http://announce.ft.com/Detail/?DocKey=1323-11905464-1P6TL31H20RM7C77TH86CA5NV0

Losses have been reduced, but there's a severe danger they'll run out of cash, especially if the season ticket trust fund idea goes ahead. You'd have thought the old club's experience with trusts would have been a warning.

Both revenue and operating expenses are higher than I'd expected, but it does indicate that they wouldn't have to reduce costs by that much to run at a profit once they're in the premier division. Whether they can get through the next twelve months is the question. The auditors aren't convinced they'll survive.

[jonty]

I was sent this link this morning.
I think someone on twitter has gone into overdrive claiming they're not the same club
http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/296

Its clear they're different companies, but not so clear when they refer to 'Rangers International Football Club plc' as 'Rangers' or the 'Company'.

Im amazed that they've pished so much money up against the wall. Talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

And for any yams looking in - dream on. You'll never ever come close to that level of investment, or progress through the leagues.

[CropleyWasGod]

Revenue of £13.2m up by 38% (£9.5m for the 7 months ended 31 December 2012)

How to spin figures, lesson 1.

(this year's monthly income £1.1m. Last year's £1.4m).

That's down in my book.

[ballengeich]

Revenue of £13.2m up by 38% (£9.5m for the 7 months ended 31 December 2012)

How to spin figures, lesson 1.

(this year's monthly income £1.1m. Last year's £1.4m).

That's down in my book.

Doesn't the £13.2m just refer to the period 1/7/13 to 31/12/13?

[CropleyWasGod]

Doesn't the £13.2m just refer to the period 1/7/13 to 31/12/13?

F'sake, I'm succumbing to Yamanomics.

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[down-the-slope]

F'sake, I'm succumbing to Yamanomics.

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

:tee hee: Epic fail....

Still they are burning cash just to get out the 1st Div....will they run out of cash or will they have enough to get out of the championship even if they don't hit the buffers before then....

Entertaining :greengrin

[green glory]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rather-concerning/#more-4499

[Spike Mandela]

Phil's obviously got wind of something..........

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pertinent-questions/

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/mr-george-angus-and-sevco/

[AndyM_1875]

Phil's obviously got wind of something..........

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pertinent-questions/

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/mr-george-angus-and-sevco/


And why would Rangers answer any questions sent in by him?

Look I despise Rangers and the Rangers experience we non old firm fans have to endure but lets not get caught up in the Phil McGobbledygook mythologising thats beloved of the hysterical wing of the Celtc support.
He's a pretend hack and absolute axe grinding fud of a man. No stranger either to cheap sectarianism and its all about him flogging his books, t shirts whatever.
Don't get taken in.

[jacomo]

And why would Rangers answer any questions sent in by him?

Look I despise Rangers and the Rangers experience we non old firm fans have to endure but lets not get caught up in the Phil McGobbledygook mythologising thats beloved of the hysterical wing of the Celtc support.
He's a pretend hack and absolute axe grinding fud of a man. No stranger either to cheap sectarianism and its all about him flogging his books, t shirts whatever.
Don't get taken in.

:agree:

He's obviously obsessed by ra peepul so always a chance he might uncover something, but I'd always take his 'revelations' with a large pinch of salt.

Also, some of these questions could be dismissed quite easily with a stock answer without illuminating the situation any further, which suggests he isn't the brightest either.

[Spike Mandela]

And why would Rangers answer any questions sent in by him?

Look I despise Rangers and the Rangers experience we non old firm fans have to endure but lets not get caught up in the Phil McGobbledygook mythologising thats beloved of the hysterical wing of the Celtc support.
He's a pretend hack and absolute axe grinding fud of a man. No stranger either to cheap sectarianism and its all about him flogging his books, t shirts whatever.
Don't get taken in.

Christ you've really got a bug up your ass about PMacG ain't you Andy? Has he done something to you in a previous life?:greengrin

We don't get much in the sycophantic msm about the inner machinations at Sevco towers so at least he is a source of rumours which we can all read and choose to either lend credence to or ignore it and dismiss it.

People are savvy enough to spot a msm with their positive spin on all things sevco and bloggers like Phil who provide the negative insight and will talk about things the msm won't touch. Reality will no doubt be a bit of both.

No need to diss the guy every single time somebody quotes him. You might disagree with everything he says but at least he's showing an interest.

[AndyM_1875]

Christ you've really got a bug up your ass about PMacG ain't you Andy? Has he done something to you in a previous life?:greengrin

We don't get much in the sycophantic msm about the inner machinations at Sevco towers so at least he is a source of rumours which we can all read and choose to either lend credence to or ignore it and dismiss it.

People are savvy enough to spot a msm with their positive spin on all things sevco and bloggers like Phil who provide the negative insight and will talk about things the msm won't touch. Reality will no doubt be a bit of both.

No need to diss the guy every single time somebody quotes him. You might disagree with everything he says but at least he's showing an interest.

His agenda bull**** offends me Spike. It's all about him selling his books, t shirts etc.
I used to be interested in his opinions as I genuinely thought he had something to say but then the mask slipped and you were left with just another Old Firm Sectarian numptie peddling crap.
With him you have to think the way he does or your one of them. Well I'm too long in the tooth and way too cynical to give a toss about that sort of simpleton logic.


Anyway WELL DONE RAITH ROVERS!!! :aok:

[Phil D. Rolls]

And why would Rangers answer any questions sent in by him?

Look I despise Rangers and the Rangers experience we non old firm fans have to endure but lets not get caught up in the Phil McGobbledygook mythologising thats beloved of the hysterical wing of the Celtc support.
He's a pretend hack and absolute axe grinding fud of a man. No stranger either to cheap sectarianism and its all about him flogging his books, t shirts whatever.
Don't get taken in.

Hes a sanctimonious **** stirring prick that can dish it out (deservedly) but can't take it back. Both sides are as bad as each other.

[grunt]

Took me ages to find this thread!


Alasdair Lamont ‏@BBCAlLamont 8m (https://twitter.com/BBCAlLamont/status/454644863464923136)

Dave King saying today Rangers board review won't be published until after season ticket renewal period and now urging fans not to renew.

DK adds that David Somers has told him board's intention was always to publish review after ST renewal period

DK: due to this extreme act of bad faith I believe that it is vital that fans now withhold season ticket money from this board

Goes on to say details of trust scheme for ST money will soon be available. He and Richard Gough to be the trustees. More soon across BBC.

[Dashing Bob S]

Took me ages to find this thread!

The whole thing smacks of a desperate attempt to Hearts liquidation out of the news.

[jacomo]

Took me ages to find this thread!

Is Dave King trying to force The Rangers into administration? Because diverting season ticket cash away from the club in this way would seem to be a good way of achieving that.

[Springbank]

Nature abhors a vacuum and when it comes to the realistic outcome of matters at rangers and hearts then I'd say the MSM have engineered a vacuum.

It's pitiful and it's painful and it leaves a gap that Phil etc rush in to fill.

I dont mind the fellow in his online ramblings, and he sometimes strikes gold, even though I couldn't imagine spending more than 30 seconds in his company

[Seveno]

Is Dave King trying to force The Rangers into administration? Because diverting season ticket cash away from the club in this way would seem to be a good way of achieving that.

I suspect me might be trying to do just that so that he can buy the club on the cheap without lining the pockets of the current set of share holders.

[Keith_M]

I suspect (h)e might be trying to do just that so that he can buy the club on the cheap without lining the pockets of the current set of share holders.


:agree:

That's my suspicion as well.

[down-the-slope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26995469

Looks like they are trying hard to find new ways of shooting themselves in the foot....:greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

I suspect me might be trying to do just that so that he can buy the club on the cheap without lining the pockets of the current set of share holders.

Convicted tax fraudster bids to take The Rangeers into administration with the backing of Sevco fans. Sit back and enjoy.

[Bostonhibby]

:agree:

That's my suspicion as well.

Good chance IMO. If it does will they get to wear another star on their shirts? No many teams got two big L's to their name. Wonder if the authorities will grow one and strip the latest abomination of past history?

[Oscar T Grouch]

Fat Sally wasnae a happy fella on the news tonight. Love it :))

[jacomo]

Fat Sally wasnae a happy fella on the news tonight. Love it :))

Don't know what he's got to be unhappy about. He's still in a job, which is frankly remarkable.

[jacomo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26995469

Looks like they are trying hard to find new ways of shooting themselves in the foot....:greengrin

Oh dear. Bad times ahead...

I also laughed at King's use of the word 'timeously'. He sounds like a double glazing salesman.

[Deansy]

Fat Sally wasnae a happy fella on the news tonight. Love it :))

Aye - maybe he doesn't do 'Walking away' but when it comes to 'Scampering/Slithering/scuttling' he's in a class of his own !

[Bishop Hibee]

Convicted tax fraudster bids to take The Rangeers into administration with the backing of Sevco fans. Sit back and enjoy.

Why these oafs are backing the Lying King is beyond me. Utter roasters deserving of everything they'll get.

[magpie1892]

Another admin would be superb fun. Then we'd have Rangers III or re-branded as 'R3'. Love to see them lug their 'history' to yet another incarnation. They'd kid on (again) that they were still the same club but I'm not sure even the sycophantic MSM (myself excluded) would let them away with it twice.

They could take D2 and D1 flags and Ramsden's Cup final with them though, I'd give them that.

[GreenLake]

Another admin would be superb fun. Then we'd have Rangers III or re-branded as 'R3'. Love to see them lug their 'history' to yet another incarnation. They'd kid on (again) that they were still the same club but I'm not sure even the sycophantic MSM (myself excluded) would let them away with it twice.

They could take D2 and D1 flags and Ramsden's Cup final with them though, I'd give them that.

It's R2D2 just now.

[Onion]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26995469

Looks like they are trying hard to find new ways of shooting themselves in the foot....:greengrin

Just as one circus looks like closing, another rolls into town. Huns and Wee Huns, a comedy double act that just keep on giving :thumbsup:

Now, just need DUFC to destroy Sevco2012 tomorrow ....:pray:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

F'sake, I'm succumbing to Yamanomics.

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

Lol ;) "They're not important - they're just numbers" as our financial accounts lecturer said when he got pulled up for totals not adding up...

[CropleyWasGod]

I suspect me might be trying to do just that so that he can buy the club on the cheap without lining the pockets of the current set of share holders.

Thing is, he wouldn't get them for £5.5m the way Green managed it. After all, didn't this lot value Ibrox et al at about £50m? :greengrin

[Keith_M]

No money from a Cup Final to look forward to. That should help with the financial pressure


:thumbsup:

[Dashing Bob S]

Christ you've really got a bug up your ass about PMacG ain't you Andy? Has he done something to you in a previous life?:greengrin

We don't get much in the sycophantic msm about the inner machinations at Sevco towers so at least he is a source of rumours which we can all read and choose to either lend credence to or ignore it and dismiss it.

People are savvy enough to spot a msm with their positive spin on all things sevco and bloggers like Phil who provide the negative insight and will talk about things the msm won't touch. Reality will no doubt be a bit of both.

No need to diss the guy every single time somebody quotes him. You might disagree with everything he says but at least he's showing an interest.

I agree that he probably is a sectarian twat with his own agenda, but that's also the sole reason he's showing an interest.

As is the case of the Hibs.net reporting on the Hearts affair, it seems now that the only critical investigations into a football club's wrong-doings, comes from educated and clued-up rival supporters. The MSM is pretty much done as a critical/investigative force, peddling ill-informed sentimental tosh and infantiilising fans even further. As far supporters of the team in jeopardy, well they generally want to edit out all bad news and believe in a Disneyworld future for their errant clubs.

If Sheffield Wednesday hit the financial skids and I wanted to know about it, I would get straight on the Sheffield United fans website, and find out who the smart cookies on there were.

So while I'd prefer it if we had somebody digging around without an agenda, as Alex Thompson appears to have gotten bored romping around in that vile snake pit, we're probably stuck with Phil and his ilk.

[matty_f]

It's R2D2 just now.

:faf: this post did not get the credit it deserves.

[MelbourneHibby]

Is Dave King trying to force The Rangers into administration? Because diverting season ticket cash away from the club in this way would seem to be a good way of achieving that.

It would seen like the only way he can take control of the club. A good option, but for all the creditors that would get bumped. I wonder if he would take over in administration, but still pay back the small businesses. Assuming he wouldn't!

[Glory Lurker]

:faf: this post did not get the credit it deserves.


It was funny, but I think associating that abomination of a football "thing" with that radge wee robot guy is all wrong. There's no way he'd support them. Luke on the other hand (as it were).....

[Eyrie]

It would seen like the only way he can take control of the club. A good option, but for all the creditors that would get bumped. I wonder if he would take over in administration, but still pay back the small businesses. Assuming he wouldn't!

Are you suggesting that Dave King is less than morally upstanding? Whatever gave you that idea?

[Jack Hackett]

It would seen like the only way he can take control of the club. A good option, but for all the creditors that would get bumped. I wonder if he would take over in administration, but still pay back the small businesses. Assuming he wouldn't!

Sevco will not have any debt per se. Anyone foolish enough to trade with them will be demanding CoD, especially after the highly publicised speculation concerning another administration. Once bitten....

[Seveno]

Thing is, he wouldn't get them for £5.5m the way Green managed it. After all, didn't this lot value Ibrox et al at about £50m? :greengrin

Yes, as we found out last time, a football club is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

An Aberdonian acquaintance suggested that Ibrox would make a good bus depot. :wink:

[Springbank]

I wonder if hearts or The Hearts or Hearts 1905 will pull the same stunt within the next 24 months?

[Keith_M]

Rangers Supporters Group, The Union of Fan(nie)s, have confirmed (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-fans-groups-will-keep-cash-from-club-1-3376415) they will go ahead with their plan to withhold Season Ticket money.


Admin One/Two* looming?





* Depending how you view the current club :wink:

[Keith_M]

Rangers v Hearts, a taste of things to come (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4TkxkdxvJM)?

That's some crowd :wink:

[down-the-slope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27073328

Getting messy down Govan way.....

Just hope King does not get in with loads of cash and bullet Sally...

Would prefer they stay in boardroom strife with budgeting difficulties and Sally's tactical 'genius' - championship will be pretty cut throat and it wil be fun seeing how they (and Tarts) cope with the pressure

[green glory]

Sevco only accepting cash for season tickets.

Dearly me.

[ALF TUPPER]

Admitting they have mismanaged again ! Need to raise £30M.

Joke Club

[Steven_Hibs]

Admitting they have mismanaged again ! Need to raise £30M.

Joke Club

That's a shocker! When will they be punished for bringing our game into disrepute

[jgl07]

Sevco only accepting cash for season tickets.

Dearly me.
If Hearts persist with their 'big club' mentality in a lower Division, that is exactly where they are likely to end up.

[Cabbage East]

Jesus wept.

Appendix 1 – Summary of Income & Expenditure 29 May 2012 – 31 December 2013
Income
£m
Expenditure
£m
External Funding
Purchase of the Club
IPO Shares Issued
22.2
Purchase of the Club
5.5
Pre IPO Shares Issued
13.3
Repayment of OLDCO Debt
3.0
35.5
Commissions and introduction Fees IPO/Pre IPO
2.7
Pre Acquisition Payroll and other Expenses
1.2
Broker Commissions & Stamp Duty
1.2
Corporate Finance and Fund Raising Advice
1.1
Legal & Accountancy Fees
0.7
Other Professional Services
0.5
Professional Fees of Purchase and Incorporation
0.4
16.3
Football
Football
Player Sales
1.2
First Team Payroll Costs
10.4
1.2
Other Football Related Payroll Costs
5.6
Termination of Player Contracts
2.3
Purchase of Players
1.5
19.8
Operations
Operations
Match Day Income
26.3
Central Administration and Overheads
8.6
Commercial Income
7.7
Matchday and Direct Costs
8.4
34.0
Non Football Payroll Costs
7.0
Purchase of Fixed Assets
5.6
Director’s Severance Costs
0.9
Investigation Fees
0.6
31.1
Cash Balance at December 2013
3.5
70.7
70.7

" The Club acquired a number of players in Summer 2013 that, based on financial forecasts, it should have known that it could not afford.

The first team squad has the second highest wage bill in Scottish football for a team currently playing in the third tier. The total player wage cost is well in excess of the level it should be primarily due to generous and poorly structured contracts that were awarded to some players when they joined the Club."

[Moulin Yarns]

Admitting they have mismanaged again ! Need to raise £30M.

Joke Club

They've already blown £70million in the 2 years of their existance!!!!

[jgl07]

Jesus wept.

Appendix 1 – Summary of Income & Expenditure 29 May 2012 – 31 December 2013
Income
£m
Expenditure
£m
External Funding
Purchase of the Club
IPO Shares Issued
22.2
Purchase of the Club
5.5
Pre IPO Shares Issued
13.3
Repayment of OLDCO Debt
3.0
35.5
Commissions and introduction Fees IPO/Pre IPO
2.7
Pre Acquisition Payroll and other Expenses
1.2
Broker Commissions & Stamp Duty
1.2
Corporate Finance and Fund Raising Advice
1.1
Legal & Accountancy Fees
0.7
Other Professional Services
0.5
Professional Fees of Purchase and Incorporation
0.4
16.3
Football
Football
Player Sales
1.2
First Team Payroll Costs
10.4
1.2
Other Football Related Payroll Costs
5.6
Termination of Player Contracts
2.3
Purchase of Players
1.5
19.8
Operations
Operations
Match Day Income
26.3
Central Administration and Overheads
8.6
Commercial Income
7.7
Matchday and Direct Costs
8.4
34.0
Non Football Payroll Costs
7.0
Purchase of Fixed Assets
5.6
Director’s Severance Costs
0.9
Investigation Fees
0.6
31.1
Cash Balance at December 2013
3.5
70.7
70.7

" The Club acquired a number of players in Summer 2013 that, based on financial forecasts, it should have known that it could not afford.

The first team squad has the second highest wage bill in Scottish football for a team currently playing in the third tier. The total player wage cost is well in excess of the level it should be primarily due to generous and poorly structured contracts that were awarded to some players when they joined the Club."
I am not sure that player contracts are at the root of the clubs' problems. They appear to at an acceptable level in terms of turnover according to figures published in the press. They are certainly excessive for playing in the third and fourth tier. However the money has been leaking out in other directions. Some have been lining their pockets including McCoist and possibly past and present directors?

[jacomo]

Sevco only accepting cash for season tickets.

Dearly me.


Admitting they have mismanaged again ! Need to raise £30M.

Joke Club

It's a mess. A total shambles. Redundancy notices going out while Sally and plenty others feather their own beds with unaffordable contracts that are pushing the club to the brink.

And apparently they are banking on higher season ticket sales at higher prices to make the whole thing add up, while renewals and credit facilities have been cancelled. Oh dear.

[Dunderhall]

Link to the report below.

http://www.iii.co.uk/research/LSE:RFC/news/item/1063759/business-review-and-strategic-plan-update.


§ The Club acquired a number of players in Summer 2013 that, based on financial forecasts, it should have known that it could not afford.

§ The first team squad has the second highest wage bill in Scottish football for a team currently playing in the third tier. The total player wage cost is well in excess of the level it should be primarily due to generous and poorly structured contracts that were awarded to some players when they joined the Club.

who would have thought it?

[Www1875hfc]

http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c--plc--rfc-/rns/business-review-and-strategic-plan-update/201404251100045425F/

[Kaiser1962]

Thing is, he wouldn't get them for £5.5m the way Green managed it. After all, didn't this lot value Ibrox et al at about £50m? :greengrin

I recall the assets were re-valued a matter of weeks post admin with the properties value being £43.7m with "intangibles" a further £19.4m.

[ALF TUPPER]

Shambles !

Can zombies come back as zombies ?

[jacomo]

http://www.investegate.co.uk/rangers-int-f-c--plc--rfc-/rns/business-review-and-strategic-plan-update/201404251100045425F/

Thanks for the link. How on earth can you start such a review with:


At the time of the AGM, the Board believed that there was sufficient cash in the business to fund the Club through the current season. However, the Review found that Rangers was in a more severe financial condition.

Does anyone there know what they are doing?

[Weststandwanab]

That was a right good laugh on a Friday afternoon.

[robinp]

That was a right good laugh on a Friday afternoon.

That makes some pretty damning reading. It's so bad it almost looks made up!

I particularly like this bit:



£2 million was invested in capital purchases that were non essential and have not generated incremental income. In particular the purchase of Stadium Wi-Fi, LED displays and Jumbo Screens used cash that could have been retained to sustain current operations. A further £2.6 million was spent purchasing Albion Car Park and Edmiston House.

That's a big team kind of expenditure item - Jumbotron!!!!! :top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

That makes some pretty damning reading. It's so bad it almost looks made up!

I particularly like this bit:



That's a big team kind of expenditure item - Jumbotron!!!!! :top marks

Confused about the Car park.

IIRC that was part of the original job-lot that they got for £5.5m. I know that those assets were sold by the original Sevco on to another company, but..... please don't tell me they bought the car park twice. :greengrin

[Seveno]

The only thing that is more incredible than the historic analysis is the plan for the next 3 years and the wish list of 'best in class' for just about everything. It reads like a Scottish Govt White Paper.

Who is going to put even more money into that shambolic wreck of a football club.

[Seveno]

Confused about the Car park.

IIRC that was part of the original job-lot that they got for £5.5m. I know that those assets were sold by the original Sevco on to another company, but..... please don't tell me they bought the car park twice. :greengrin

I think the only acquired the lease. Someone must have thought it was a good idea to buy the land to increase the total amount of land for future development.

[Bishop Hibee]

It reads like a Scottish Govt White Paper..

No it doesn't. Lots of NO voters will be greetin about their club going pop though. Magic!

[ALF TUPPER]

Confused about the Car park.

IIRC that was part of the original job-lot that they got for £5.5m. I know that those assets were sold by the original Sevco on to another company, but..... please don't tell me they bought the car park twice. :greengrin

I thought that too..... :agree:. So good they bought it twice. (Must be a song in there)

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the only acquired the lease. Someone must have thought it was a good idea to buy the land to increase the total amount of land for future development.

If the former RFC owned the car-park, Sevco 1 would have bought it. Are you saying that Sevco 2 took the lease, and then bought it outright from Sevco 1?

Or did RFC only ever have the lease?

[Nutmegged]

Litterally burst out laughing when SKY Sports News came on and they said Rangers fans can only re-new with cash...all that was missing was the brown paper bag.

Hilarious, love watching them swing from one mess to another.

[Weststandwanab]

No it doesn't. Lots of NO voters will be greetin about their club going pop though. Magic! It is a Yes from me.


Litterally burst out laughing when SKY Sports News came on and they said Rangers fans can only re-new with cash...all that was missing was the brown paper bag.


Hilarious, love watching them swing from one mess to another.Did S.S.N. say which currency ?

ETMQ

[Moulin Yarns]

Confused about the Car park.

IIRC that was part of the original job-lot that they got for £5.5m. I know that those assets were sold by the original Sevco on to another company, but..... please don't tell me they bought the car park twice. :greengrin

Please DO tell me they bought the car park twice, it would be even funnier.

[Just Alf]

Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 10m
#Rangers Graham Wallace says "there's a little bit less than £3.5m in the bank today"


Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 8m
Graham Wallace says there will be some redundancies among #rangers non playing staff. Says it will be "relatively small number"

Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 2m
#Rangers Graham Wallace didn't deny he and the rest of the board will be taking a bonus



hmmmm.... :cb

[ALF TUPPER]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my sides :faf:

[calmac12000]

Aye, its great that the Huns are able to provide such comedic entertainment, that even we can for a minute or to put our own troubles in perspective and have a good laugh.:wink:

[GreenLake]

Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 10m
#Rangers Graham Wallace says "there's a little bit less than £3.5m in the bank today"


Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 8m
Graham Wallace says there will be some redundancies among #rangers non playing staff. Says it will be "relatively small number"

Alison Robbie ‏@AlisonRobbie 2m
#Rangers Graham Wallace didn't deny he and the rest of the board will be taking a bonus



hmmmm.... :cb

Run a business into the ground with a performance indicative of being completely useless as executives then still award yourselves a bonus. Do these guys think they are bankers? :greengrin

[Col2]

Run a business into the ground with a performance indicative of being completely useless as executives then still award yourselves a bonus. Do these guys think they are bankers? :greengrin

Hey, steady in now. Dont kick the innocent bankers. My bonus was well deserved and helps fund my pool house extension.

[patlowe]

This is brilliant: "The Club raised £70.7 million through ticket sales, commercial revenues and share issue proceeds between May 2012 and December 2013, and spent this relatively quickly, and in some areas liberally".

£70m in under two years to get out of the fourth and third tiers of Scottish football. Yep, that's definitely "relatively quickly"! :faf:

They really are the gift that keeps on giving.

[CropleyWasGod]

If Hearts persist with their 'big club' mentality in a lower Division, that is exactly where they are likely to end up.

Much as it would be fun, I really don't see that happening with AB in charge.

[patlowe]

And it took them 120 days to come up with that. I'm pretty sure an intern could've knocked it up in about 2.

[AndyM_1875]

Much as it would be fun, I really don't see that happening with AB in charge.

It won't as Mrs B has a track record of watching the costs.

Some of the puddle drinkers might find that hard to take as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

It won't as Mrs B has a track record of watching the costs.

Some of the puddle drinkers might find that hard to take as well.

She'll also be well aware of the fact that it's her money at stake.... unlike the chancers at Ibrox.

[GreenLake]

Hey, steady in now. Dont kick the innocent bankers. My bonus was well deserved and helps fund my pool house extension.

I thought bankers played billiards. :wink:

[jacomo]

It won't as Mrs B has a track record of watching the costs.

Some of the puddle drinkers might find that hard to take as well.

If they don't like the way she's running things, they can just cancel their Direct Debits.

[GreenLake]

If they don't like the way she's running things, they can just cancel their Direct Debits.

She can't lose then. The more financially viable her rule is for Hearts, the less happy the mob will be and the quicker they cancel direct debits leaving her with full ownership and no need to return the FOH money already paid into the club. Nice way to subsidized football club ownership if you can find it.

[ballengeich]

The review states that they're planning to raise capital, increase income, reduce spending and put out the best football team they can. That didn't need 120 hours to write, far less 120 days.

What's the additional capital going to be used for? They have the short-term loans already taken out to repay. There's likely to be a trading loss and one-off costs to cover next season. An undisclosed amount will be spent on upgrading Ibrox. A scouting and player development program is to be set up. How much will there be available to spend on strengthening the playing squad to the level they aspire to compete at? If they're planning to raise the capital by share issues a lot more detail of numbers will need to be made available. A repeat of the IPO prospectus (WATP - Stand and Deliver) won't impress institutional investors who've seen the value of their shares fall by two thirds.

The talk is of raising between £20 and £30 million in capital over the next three years. I'd have thought that after a full business review they'd have a more precise figure in mind, but what do I know. Whichever it is, that will take the total invested over £50 million. To justify that, a dividend of a significant number of millions each year should start being paid out sooner rather than later if Laxey and other institutions are to get the profits they must have expected when they got into the business.

The whole plan seems to depend on getting far enough in European competitions to allow profits to be made. I suppose it might work. I'd love to see the more detailed financial projections Wallace must have done. The public document tells us next to nothing.

[Seveno]

If the former RFC owned the car-park, Sevco 1 would have bought it. Are you saying that Sevco 2 took the lease, and then bought it outright from Sevco 1?

Or did RFC only ever have the lease?

RFC only ever leased it as far as I was aware.

[seanshow]

To have your debts wiped, start again as a new club at the erse of scottish football with 40k crowds and be back in a similar position 2 years later! Is an effin disgrace and worth a withdrawal of spfa membership imo.

Im sure they would be in debt all over again, if there credit wasnt so fkd up :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

The whole plan seems to depend on getting far enough in European competitions to allow profits to be made. I suppose it might work. I'd love to see the more detailed financial projections Wallace must have done. The public document tells us next to nothing.

They've tried this before, and that's why they are in the mess they are in.

Madness is repeating the same behaviour and expecting a different result. It doesn't take Einstein to see the flaws in their plan.

[Famous Fiver]

£70 Mill s*****d. Where have I heard that before?...............

[down-the-slope]

Surely they can't think supporters are this gullible.........these quoted section and particularly the highlighted bits are hardly going to to fill fans with confidence...

Though season ticket renewals are crucial to Rangers' financial position, the facility for fans to pay for them with credit or debit cards has been removed and supporters are instead being asked to pay the club directly.
Rangers say this has come as a consequence of the merchant acquirer's stance that it would need "extensive security" over property assets.
One caveat to the new payment arrangement will be that customers' money will not be protected in the event of the business going bust.


"The board believes that one of the major factors influencing the merchant acquirer to change its terms was the extensive negative coverage of calls in some quarters for supporters to refrain or delay purchasing season tickets," Rangers explained.
"As previously stated, the board has no intention of granting security over Ibrox.

[Brando7]

Just wondering why the stadium is on the expenditure list as would this not be green that bought ibrox & car park so are they saying the used fans money/shares to pay that back from Green?

[Brando7]

The review states that they're planning to raise capital, increase income, reduce spending and put out the best football team they can. That didn't need 120 hours to write, far less 120 days.

What's the additional capital going to be used for? They have the short-term loans already taken out to repay. There's likely to be a trading loss and one-off costs to cover next season. An undisclosed amount will be spent on upgrading Ibrox. A scouting and player development program is to be set up. How much will there be available to spend on strengthening the playing squad to the level they aspire to compete at? If they're planning to raise the capital by share issues a lot more detail of numbers will need to be made available. A repeat of the IPO prospectus (WATP - Stand and Deliver) won't impress institutional investors who've seen the value of their shares fall by two thirds.

The talk is of raising between £20 and £30 million in capital over the next three years. I'd have thought that after a full business review they'd have a more precise figure in mind, but what do I know. Whichever it is, that will take the total invested over £50 million. To justify that, a dividend of a significant number of millions each year should start being paid out sooner rather than later if Laxey and other institutions are to get the profits they must have expected when they got into the business.

The whole plan seems to depend on getting far enough in European competitions to allow profits to be made. I suppose it might work. I'd love to see the more detailed financial projections Wallace must have done. The public document tells us next to nothing.

In order to achieve the strategy identified below, the Company will need to raise capital. The Board has determined that over the next three years it expects to raise between £20 million and £30 million to be invested in the Club. The Board will consider the most appropriate source of finance which may be available to the Club including equity and other sources in order to obtain the necessary funding whilst also seeking to ensure the Club's financial stability is protected.

This sound to me if they can get the money in a share issue they could be looking so sell ibrox for funds?

[Jack Hackett]

Just checked the share price for the first time in a couple of weeks, to find it's dropped to its lowest ever of 22p

Highly pleasing. Huge losses for the knuckledraggers who bought into Charlie's dream :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

£70 Mill s*****d. Where have I heard that before?...............

The real issue for me is that we were told lessons would be learnt and there would be more financial scrutiny of clouds to make sure this sort of thing didn't happen again .
Clearly that hasn't happened and everyone knows they have been mismanaged again and bought there way back up making this situation almost inevitable .The Hierarchy want to turn a blind eye as they are Desparate to get them back into the top league .The whole thing stinks .Again this has had more coverage in last two days than most of the Hearts saga over past year .
Surely there need to be more financialProbity and more Transparency in thier case But they get away with it and have a Temerity to still refuse to speak to BBC because of the way they were treated ,and criticise other clubs over issues .
They are getting away with too Mutch in my view and it's as if because of what happened first time round they are untouchable now and do thier own thing .
I can honestly say I haven't missed them one bit .

Will be interesting how this all plays out .

[CropleyWasGod]

The real issue for me is that we were told lessons would be learnt and there would be more financial scrutiny of clouds to make sure this sort of thing didn't happen again .
Clearly that hasn't happened and everyone knows they have been mismanaged again and bought there way back up making this situation almost inevitable .The Hierarchy want to turn a blind eye as they are Desparate to get them back into the top league .The whole thing stinks .Again this has had more coverage in last two days than most of the Hearts saga over past year .
Surely there need to be more financialProbity and more Transparency in thier case But they get away with it and have a Temerity to still refuse to speak to BBC because of the way they were treated ,and criticise other clubs over issues .
They are getting away with too Mutch in my view and it's as if because of what happened first time round they are untouchable now and do thier own thing .
I can honestly say I haven't missed them one bit .

Will be interesting how this all plays out .

I have to disagree with this a bit.

I am not sure that the football authorities could have done anything. Club gets money, club spends money, club gets into financial difficulties. Club has to deal with it.

I can't see that they are "getting away with" anything. If the club goes into administration, there are sanctions. More importantly, there will be serious commercial and legal consequences which will hurt them much more than a 25 point deduction.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Pleasing very ****ing pleasing

Sent from my C2105 using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

I have to disagree with this a bit.

I am not sure that the football authorities could have done anything. Club gets money, club spends money, club gets into financial difficulties. Club has to deal with it.

I can't see that they are "getting away with" anything. If the club goes into administration, there are sanctions. More importantly, there will be serious commercial and legal consequences which will hurt them much more than a 25 point deduction.
Would be happy if what you say happens .Maybe the phrase I am looking for is I think it's a bit immoral what they have done and are getting away with .Where has seventy million gone give or take the odd couple of million iether and still don't understand why given the difficulties they were in there wasn't more accountability .but I don't have a head for Business so maybe that's why I find it hard to account for what's happening .
It also doesn't put Scottish football in a good light when all we hear about is these on going financial difficulties at Sevco which to my mind could and should of been avoided.

[Crazyhorse]

I have to disagree with this a bit.

I am not sure that the football authorities could have done anything. Club gets money, club spends money, club gets into financial difficulties. Club has to deal with it.

I can't see that they are "getting away with" anything. If the club goes into administration, there are sanctions. More importantly, there will be serious commercial and legal consequences which will hurt them much more than a 25 point deduction.

As one of our financial gurus do you think they seem to be heading straight for administration (I refuse to say again :greengrin)? It doesn't look like they will sell enough season tickets and another share issue looks like it would probably fail. I know very little about this stuff but the vultures seem to be circling around the idiots left holding the ticking bombing while Charlie and his gang have made good their escape with lots of loot (mixing metaphors a bit there but you know what I mean)

[CropleyWasGod]

As one of our financial gurus do you think they seem to be heading straight for administration (I refuse to say again :greengrin)? It doesn't look like they will sell enough season tickets and another share issue looks like it would probably fail. I know very little about this stuff but the vultures seem to be circling around the idiots left holding the ticking bombing while Charlie and his gang have made good their escape with lots of loot (mixing metaphors a bit there but you know what I mean)

I am finding this fascinating, of course :greengrin

I have no sense of anything at the moment, other than impending disaster if drastic action isn't taken. If I were advising them (collectively), I'd be telling them to get round a table and find a compromise. However, there seem to be so many egos involved that I am not sure that's going to happen. The only way that might happen is if the shareholders (who have lost so much already) force them to do it.

Even a share issue wouldn't necessarily be the answer. That would take time to organise, and they don't seem to have that. No-one would fund them in the short-term, at least not at sensible rates, and (as you say) there is no guarantee that it would succeed..... unless Mr. King chose to underwrite it. That may be his strategy.

Administration? It may be a good thing in the longer-term. It wouldn't be a cheap option for a new owner, unlike the Sevco fiasco. But, with a 25 point penalty in the Championship, it might force the new owners to be more realistic in their plans and get back to sustainable trading. That may also be King's plan.

Charlie Greene must be giggling away. All the predictions of asset-stripping that came from fans of Sheffield United (?) have come to pass. Ann Budge will also be looking at things with a keen interest.... I can't see her trying the same nonsense.

[pacorosssco]

football is a joke. Fifa uefa have done nothing to combat fairness in football. first class flights champagne and nibbles all round. the rest who cares. viva la revolution

[ehf]

To have your debts wiped, start again as a new club at the erse of scottish football with 40k crowds and be back in a similar position 2 years later! Is an effin disgrace and worth a withdrawal of spfa membership imo.

Im sure they would be in debt all over again, if there credit wasnt so fkd up :greengrin

Those 40K crowds are mythical.

Have a look at the highlights of their midweek match against Ayr and you will see that that Ibrox was empty; 10k at most. And their winning goal was so far offside that Craig Thomson would not even have given it against us.

[monktonharp]

Rangers v Hearts, a taste of things to come (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4TkxkdxvJM)?

That's some crowd :wink:it was indeed. the thing that intrigued me was how many ex-huns played for the gorgie mob, not just in that game but over the years.

[MKHIBEE]

.

. And their winning goal was so far offside that Craig Thomson would not even have given it against us.

I wouldn't bet on it

[Stonewall]

The real issue for me is that we were told lessons would be learnt and there would be more financial scrutiny of clouds to make sure this sort of thing didn't happen again .
Clearly that hasn't happened and everyone knows they have been mismanaged again and bought there way back up making this situation almost inevitable .The Hierarchy want to turn a blind eye as they are Desparate to get them back into the top league .The whole thing stinks .Again this has had more coverage in last two days than most of the Hearts saga over past year .
Surely there need to be more financialProbity and more Transparency in thier case But they get away with it and have a Temerity to still refuse to speak to BBC because of the way they were treated ,and criticise other clubs over issues .
They are getting away with too Mutch in my view and it's as if because of what happened first time round they are untouchable now and do thier own thing .
I can honestly say I haven't missed them one bit .

Will be interesting how this all plays out .

Lessons learned by who though?

I do not recall any statements from Rangers admitting they had made mistakes and showing contrition. All we got was bluster, aggression, paranoia and if blame was to be allocated then it fell at the door of specific, rogue individuals rather than any systemic problems within the club.

If there is a refusal to acknowledge that mistakes were made it seems to me that there can be no surprise that the mistakes are repeated.

Not sure what the football authorities could have done to prevent this.

[Gettin' Auld]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"

[ALF TUPPER]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"


Hahahaha quality !!

[down-the-slope]

I am finding this fascinating, of course :greengrin

I have no sense of anything at the moment, other than impending disaster if drastic action isn't taken. If I were advising them (collectively), I'd be telling them to get round a table and find a compromise. However, there seem to be so many egos involved that I am not sure that's going to happen. The only way that might happen is if the shareholders (who have lost so much already) force them to do it.

Even a share issue wouldn't necessarily be the answer. That would take time to organise, and they don't seem to have that. No-one would fund them in the short-term, at least not at sensible rates, and (as you say) there is no guarantee that it would succeed..... unless Mr. King chose to underwrite it. That may be his strategy.

Administration? It may be a good thing in the longer-term. It wouldn't be a cheap option for a new owner, unlike the Sevco fiasco. But, with a 25 point penalty in the Championship, it might force the new owners to be more realistic in their plans and get back to sustainable trading. That may also be King's plan.

Charlie Greene must be giggling away. All the predictions of asset-stripping that came from fans of Sheffield United (?) have come to pass. Ann Budge will also be looking at things with a keen interest.... I can't see her trying the same nonsense.

Given the caveat given about 'going concern' in last accounts (now as normal well out of date in terms of ability to trade...their merchant services withdrawing provision (unless they give security) then in normal business circumstances there is potential for very quick loss of confidence and withdrawal of credit facilities by other service providers which could easily become the domino effect that leads to the edge.....

[EuanH78]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"

Saw that on twitter earlier. Quality.
Also saw 'the 128 days later review' . Made me laugh

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

[VivaHiberña]

Simply glorious.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=233168

Personal favourites:


Never noticed this one. I liked this one.

We're going to enjoy this journey, we'll make a lot of friends along that route I'm sure while our former friends have the difficulties that they are going to face, Rangers and it's fans will have an enjoyable few years. [Charles Green, July 2012]

My underline:

Great stuff, Ive been thinking the same. It will be good for Rangers & Rangers fans to get get out of that cess-pit of bigotry & hatred for a while and cleanse ourselves away from all those ****ing ********s. Let the good times begin. And of course theres always the fun ahead of watching some of those *******s die along the way, all in the name of sporting integrity of course. http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/21.gif http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/21.gif


I have a funny feeling we shall grow to love mr green and will all be gutted when he leaves. It wouldn't surprise me though if he falls in love with rangers like most who have anything to do with our club do

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/graham-wallaces-120-day-review-makes-3459551


Wallace’s review didn’t tell fans much they didn’t already know in terms of the mismanagement of the previous regime, even if seeing the eye-watering figure of £67.2million which has been spent in less than two years merely added to their disgust.
Excessive wages for players for the division they were in was something that was pretty clear to most and they didn’t need to see it in black and white. Throw in the “onerous” commercial deals.


that's an awful lot of money spent to secure winning the leagues two and one

[cabbageandribs1875]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"


:tee hee:

[delbert]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"

The cry was legal tender

The cash my father stored

[Mr White]

Aye readies only, nae cairds.

[down-the-slope]

:tee hee:
and unashamed stolen -

Father gives sons cash savings to pay the ST...

'the cash my father stored' :greengrin

Edit...you snooze you lose

[Sylar]

12478

Oh dear...

[Spike Mandela]

12478

Oh dear...

Hmmm, a smear campaign a couple of days after his review. Dave King dishing out the succulent lamb anyone?

[GreenLake]

Sevco fans have to pay cash for their season tickets now. No credit card payments accepted.

"We are the Pay Pal"

:faf:

[Kaiser1962]

This seems to be doing the rounds just now, don't know how accurate it is.

http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/questions-over-nimmo-smith-inquiry-as.html?m=1

[Jack Hackett]

Regardless of its accuracy, the fact that it's over 7 months old and there hasn't been any further information or follow up, would indicate that SFA has or will be done about it

[Kaiser1962]

This seems to be doing the rounds just now, don't know how accurate it is.

http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/questions-over-nimmo-smith-inquiry-as.html?m=1


Regardless of its accuracy, there hasn't been any further information or follow up, would indicate that SFA has or will be done about it

Oops! :hide:

Thanks Jack. Its been on twitter this morning and didnt notice the date. Says it all really.

[PatHead]

Can Ally really be that thick. Hilarious interview on BBC.

" We didn't spend any money at all on players".

"The club is probably the envy of any club in world football"

Sorry can't post link. On BBC site for lower league Scottish teams

[Weststandwanab]

Can Ally really be that thick. Hilarious interview on BBC.

" We didn't spend any money at all on players".

"The club is probably the envy of any club in world football"

Sorry can't post link. On BBC site for lower league Scottish teams

Hope this works

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2F0%2Ffootb all%2F27210616&ei=w9RfU5yVAqSa1AXq64GYAg&usg=AFQjCNFFdzeqCJqWfuENR5QE9O9I_C23Iw&bvm=bv.65397613,d.d2k

[Spike Mandela]

Can Ally really be that thick. Hilarious interview on BBC.

" We didn't spend any money at all on players".

"The club is probably the envy of any club in world football"

Sorry can't post link. On BBC site for lower league Scottish teams

Here you go........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27210616

Ally, the amount you personally took out the club over the two years should have given you a clue. He really is a weak, weasly snake of a blame shifter.

[Keith_M]

Ally does his usual 'it wisnae me'


...plus the fact that it wasn't myself who offered the players the contracts."


No mention of the 1.5 Million in salary and bonuses he personally pocketed for winning the third and second divisions.

And in spite of the stagerring losses he mentions, just can't wait to rack up even more


"We need investment. I don't think it is as much rocket science as people are making out.

"If you lose in the region of £35m to £45m worth of players (due to administration) and don't buy to replace them you are going to struggle to compete at the level you once were."

[Springbank]

"at the level you once were"

So, not the fourth tier, or the third tier. Even Gretna showed you need a darn site less than £70m to cruise those leagues

[jacomo]

Here you go........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27210616

Ally, the amount you personally took out the club over the two years should have given you a clue. He really is a weak, weasly snake of a blame shifter.

Incredible. Can he really be that thick?

Sally will never win anything substantial, but if he hadn't blown so much cash himself there would be more available for 'investment' in the playing squad.

[Deansy]

Ally does his usual 'it wisnae me'


...plus the fact that it wasn't myself who offered the players the contracts."


No mention of the 1.5 Million in salary and bonuses he personally pocketed for winning the third and second divisions.

And in spite of the stagerring losses he mentions, just can't wait to rack up even more


"We need investment. I don't think it is as much rocket science as people are making out.

"If you lose in the region of £35m to £45m worth of players (due to administration) and don't buy to replace them you are going to struggle to compete at the level you once were."

His 'class' as a manager is just the same as it was when he hit Mark Fulton from behind (09:52 - during the 'fracas' on that infamous day Souness was sent-off) and then ran away - a thoroughly odious, little reptile !!

[Spike Mandela]

Not your usual sycophantic McCoist article..........

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ally-mccoist-accountability-gap-at-rangers-1-3392216

[Seveno]

Quote from Sally in the Scotsman article ' I want as many people to watch Rangers as humanely possible.'

Is it a typo by the Scotsman or is it really so painful watching The Rangers ?

[Fergus52]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html?fb

hopefully if we're to get relegated then they'll be hit with this

[Jim44]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html?fb

hopefully if we're to get relegated then they'll be hit with this

The Rangers going tits-up again would certainly help our chances of bouncing back up at the first time of asking. If they survive this latest financial crisis, it looks as if it might be us and the Jambos playing-off for promotion. Hopefully our new look admin team can get us in the position where we can seriously challenge for promotion. Better still, it would be great if the newly announced shot in the arm might just gee us up enough to crawl over the finishing line this season without penalty.

[Spike Mandela]

Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain)
30/04/2014 16:07
From an excellent source: Communications between Graham Wallace and the SFA are "frantic".

[Paperboy]

"at the level you once were"

So, not the fourth tier, or the third tier. Even Gretna showed you need a darn site less than £70m to cruise those leagues

I wonder how much Queen of the South spent last year when they won the league Rangers are in at a canter.

any full time team should in theory walk the bottom two leagues and by the time you get to the Championship you spend a bit extra on some experience to get you up to the SPL

[Spike Mandela]

Phil MacGiollaBhain (@Pmacgiollabhain)
30/04/2014 17:58
An excellent source inside Stalag Sevco just painted a picture of utter chaos when asked by me to describe the current state of play.

[Eyrie]

Quote from Sally in the Scotsman article ' I want as many people to watch Rangers as humanely possible.'

Is it a typo by the Scotsman or is it really so painful watching The Rangers ?

Maybe he wants their current supporters replaced by decent human beings?

[Just Alf]

I wonder how much Queen of the South spent last year when they won the league Rangers are in at a canter.

any full time team should in theory walk the bottom two leagues and by the time you get to the Championship you spend a bit extra on some experience to get you up to the SPL


From the Scotsman....

"Queen of the South won Scotland’s third tier and the Ramsdens Cup last year with a £650,000 football budget. With ten times the outlay this season, Rangers could not even do that double."

[Bostonhibby]

Aye readies only, nae cairds.

So they'll be up to their knees in five pound notes, then they will surrender and they'll die?

[Joe6-2]

From the Scotsman....

"Queen of the South won Scotland’s third tier and the Ramsdens Cup last year with a £650,000 football budget. With ten times the outlay this season, Rangers could not even do that double."

Brilliant!!

[ScottB]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10794515/Rangers-facing-25-point-deduction.html?fb

hopefully if we're to get relegated then they'll be hit with this

Will love it if their insistence on being the same club causes a 25 point penalty instead of just 15...

[Ozyhibby]

Will love it if their insistence on being the same club causes a 25 point penalty instead of just 15...

Unless they do it this week. Then it won't make much difference as they are 30 odd points in front.

[Keith_M]

Unless they do it this week. Then it won't make much difference as they are 30 odd points in front.


That would make the most sense. They could then finally get rid of Super Swally and his overpaid signings, without any pay-offs, and still avoid a points deduction.


It's so sensible that it's never going to happen.

[Ozyhibby]

That would make the most sense. They could then finally get rid of Super Swally and his overpaid signings, without any pay-offs, and still avoid a points deduction.


It's so sensible that it's never going to happen.

Those would all be football debts so would still be payable.
I suspect it's some of the commercial contracts that were signed by Green that they would like to get out of.

[Liberal Hibby]

The cry was legal tender

The cash my father stored

:not worth

[HFC 0-7]

Those would all be football debts so would still be payable.
I suspect it's some of the commercial contracts that were signed by Green that they would like to get out of.

Dont think they would be football debts, it's only debts incurred out of admin that would be classed as football debts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Dont think they would be football debts, it's only debts incurred out of admin that would be classed as football debts.

Money due to players under the term of their contracts is classed as football debt. I'm not sure about the coaching staff, although I suspect that they are as well.

[Cropley10]

Will love it if their insistence on being the same club causes a 25 point penalty instead of just 15...

Ah but this is where the SFA have tied themselves in knots.

A Club cannot go into Administration only a Company can. The Company in this case is Sevco, which is a brand new Company.

By pretending that you can transfer history and this is the same Club - even though that Club was a part of the Company that went bust - they should by rights only get a 15 point penalty.

Rangers are in the third tier because they're a new Club. Pure & simple. A 15 point penalty should confirm this.

However no-one would expect the SFA to be unable to find a away to get round this.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah but this is where the SFA have tied themselves in knots.

A Club cannot go into Administration only a Company can. The Company in this case is Sevco, which is a brand new Company.

By pretending that you can transfer history and this is the same Club - even though that Club was a part of the Company that went bust - they should by rights only get a 15 point penalty.

Rangers are in the third tier because they're a new Club. Pure & simple. A 15 point penalty should confirm this.

However no-one would expect the SFA to be unable to find a away to get round this.:greengrin

The SPFL rules are quite clear:-

"Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member,suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points."

Definitely 25 points :)

[Liberal Hibby]

The SPFL rules are quite clear:-

"Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member,suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points."

Definitely 25 points :)

So Hearts start next season on -15 and Rangers on - 25. Excellent we can go down now and be certs to come straight back up! :wink:

[southsider]

So Hearts start next season on -15 and Rangers on - 25. Excellent we can go down now and be certs to come straight back up! :wink:
Dont go there ! I would much rather we did not.

[Keith_M]

Those would all be football debts so would still be payable.
I suspect it's some of the commercial contracts that were signed by Green that they would like to get out of.


My understanding was that any debts present at the point of Administration would be eligible but that the Administrators would then be able to cancel contracts once in Administration.

As far as I'm aware, that is a legitimate part of the Administration process and does not actually create any new debt.

[Weststandwanab]

So Hearts start next season on -15 and Rangers on - 25. Excellent we can go down now and be certs to come straight back up! :wink: No lets not tempt fate.

[Hibs Class]

The SPFL rules are quite clear:-

"Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member,suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points."

Definitely 25 points :)

That sounds like -15 to me, if the alternative is that I accept they are the same club. Oldco died, which is why the rangers as a new club were allowed to enter the bottom league.

[CropleyWasGod]

That sounds like -15 to me, if the alternative is that I accept they are the same club. Oldco died, which is why the rangers as a new club were allowed to enter the bottom league.

Read the bit I underlined. :)

Sevco own the club now. They bought that for £5 from RFC. Same club, different owner.

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27251815

Imran Ahmed is not going to be popular down Govan way.

I wonder if Sevco F C will try and argue that the ring fencing is unnecessary as they have plenty of money in the kitty.

[Nutmegged]

Read the bit I underlined. :)

Sevco own the club now. They bought that for £5 from RFC. Same club, different owner.

Who owned the club then before Sevco?

Charlea Green bought the assets of the club from Rangers and a phoenix club was born!

[CropleyWasGod]

Who owned the club then before Sevco?

Charlea Green bought the assets of the club from Rangers and a phoenix club was born!

RFC owned it. And they sold it to Sevco for £5.

That's my point. The rules are clear. It doesn't matter that they have had 2 different owners. It would be the second insolvency event involving the club. Therefore it would be a 25 point penalty.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27251815

Imran Ahmed is not going to be popular down Govan way.

I wonder if Sevco F C will try and argue that the ring fencing is unnecessary as they have plenty of money in the kitty.

Might just be the camel that breaks the Bears' back.

Signing out now. On the night flight to Delhi then the hippie wagon to Kathmandu.

Play nice when I'm away kids :-)

[GreenLake]

Might just be the camel that breaks the Bears' back.

Signing out now. On the night flight to Delhi then the hippie wagon to Kathmandu.

Play nice when I'm away kids :-)

When I was in Kathmandu, I got into a drunken stupa.

[Ronniekirk]

When I was in Kathmandu, I got into a drunken stupa.
namaste.Trekking in Nepal is one of those Life Changing Experiences .Took some Hibs tops to a school about 13,000 feet into the Annapurna range and played footie with them .might look out the prayer flag they gave me and see it it brings good Karma for tomorrow for the Hibees.:flag:

[greenpaper55]

Might just be the camel that breaks the Bears' back.

Signing out now. On the night flight to Delhi then the hippie wagon to Kathmandu.

Play nice when I'm away kids :-)

But you cannot leave just when it's getting interesting ?.

[GreenLake]

namaste.Trekking in Nepal is one of those Life Changing Experiences .Took some Hibs tops to a school about 13,000 feet into the Annapurna range and played footie with them .might look out the prayer flag they gave me and see it it brings good Karma for tomorrow for the Hibees.:flag:

I wish I could have gone up into the mountains on foot, must have been a brilliant trip. I'll have a look for the singing bowl and give it a wee scour before kick off. :thumbsup:

[HFC 0-7]

Money due to players under the term of their contracts is classed as football debt. I'm not sure about the coaching staff, although I suspect that they are as well.
Not sure that's right. as long as rangers have been paying their wages up to admin there will be no debt, they can then cancel the contracts.

[Nutmegged]

RFC owned it. And they sold it to Sevco for £5.

That's my point. The rules are clear. It doesn't matter that they have had 2 different owners. It would be the second insolvency event involving the club. Therefore it would be a 25 point penalty.

It wasn't a take over though, it wasnt a business swooping in and juat buying a business, the CVA was rejected and Rangers as we know them went bust, Green then bought the assets from.Rangers and formed the phoenix club that stands before us today.

[Keith_M]

More stories (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/revealed-rangers-chief-entitled-to-100-bonus-as-club-to-axe-jobs.24129730) of snouts in the trough...


Graham Wallace's salary = 315k

Potential bonuses for hitting unspecified targets = 315k

Car allowance = 15k

+ among other things, free private healthcare for him and his family.


Not bad work, if you can get it.

[emerald green]

More stories (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/revealed-rangers-chief-entitled-to-100-bonus-as-club-to-axe-jobs.24129730) of snouts in the trough...


Graham Wallace's salary = 315k

Potential bonuses for hitting unspecified targets = 315k

Car allowance = 15k

+ among other things, free private healthcare for him and his family.


Not bad work, if you can get it.

What do people like this actually do to justify that sort of remuneration? Still, if it helps take them down the tubes again, all the better.

[jacomo]

From the Scotsman....

"Queen of the South won Scotland’s third tier and the Ramsdens Cup last year with a £650,000 football budget. With ten times the outlay this season, Rangers could not even do that double."

In other words, Sally's salary alone was bigger than QoS entire football budget.

[down-the-slope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27251815

Imran Ahmed could become a legend if he succeeds in getting 620k frozen in his court case and it tips them into admin :greengrin

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27251815

Imran Ahmed could become a legend if he succeeds in getting 620k frozen in his court case and it tips them into admin :greengrin


Then he would be nobody's " Paki-friend ". :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Union of Fan(nie)s to go ahead with threat to withhold Season Ticket money (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-fans-press-ahead-with-move-to-pool-season-ticket-cash.24148150). They claim only 2,000 Season Tickets have been bought so far.


They have also said, after his salary and bonus were revealed, that Graham Wallace's position is 'untenable' and that he should go (http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/wallace-role-untenable-says-union-of-fans-chief.24149982).


-------------------------

On another note, is it just the same kind of co-incidence that causes the Blue Order to sound suspicously like the Orange Order and the Green Brigade to sound like the Old Brigade that, on seeing the acronym UoF, I immediately think of UVF?

I'm sure these things are all completely unintentional and that I'm just a suspicous old cynic.

[grunt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27251815

Imran Ahmed could become a legend if he succeeds in getting 620k frozen in his court case and it tips them into admin :greengrin

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 3m (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/463697645601820672) Imran Ahmad has, for the second time, lost his case to have £620,000 arrested from Rangers ahead of his case alleging unpaid bonuses

[grunt]

Union of Fan(nie)s to go ahead with threat to withhold Season Ticket money (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-fans-press-ahead-with-move-to-pool-season-ticket-cash.24148150). They claim only 2,000 Season Tickets have been bought so far.Statement from RIFC


"The Board of Rangers note with dismay the launch of the 'Ibrox 1972 fund' led by Dave King and Richard Gough.
"Attempting to create a fund that wishes to deprive revenue to the football club these men purport to love so much and create financial difficulty for Rangers, displays a twisted logic.
"For the avoidance of doubt and so that all Rangers fans are again reassured, the Board has stated that it has no intention of granting security over Ibrox to anybody. We have already shown in our actions - and not words - that our stadium is sacrosanct.
"Any supporters considering engaging with Ibrox 1972 Ltd should be clear that as the Club will not grant security over Ibrox to any such organisation, there is no prospect that any commitment to this new scheme will ever come to fruition and is therefore entirely meaningless. Nor will the Board enter into any agreement with a third party organisation on season ticket renewals, as is being suggested.
"Therefore this scheme is a worthless academic exercise created to serve the purposes of individuals and not the greater good of Rangers Football Club. It could never deliver the stability and security this football club and our supporters deserve.
"It is also important to note that should existing season ticket holders choose not to renew by the 16th May deadline, as is being encouraged, they could lose their seat allocation. The Club believes it must - as it always does at this time of the year - attempt to satisfy the requests we have received from current season ticket holders who wish to relocate to other available seats around the stadium.
"The absurd attacks made by individuals associated with this new scheme on Chief Executive Graham Wallace are disgraceful. Since Mr Wallace joined the Club he has worked tirelessly to create a Rangers fit for the future.
"Mr Wallace has brought his considerable business experience together with his extensive knowledge of top-level football operations and impeccable reputation to the Club and we continue to see the benefits of his work. To question his integrity, ability or professionalism as a means to discredit him personally and to undermine the Board generally is absolutely unacceptable.
"Mr Wallace has the Board's unequivocal support.
"We are only too aware that our incredibly loyal supporters have been through remarkably testing times in recent years, but Rangers has made significant progress in recent months, both on and off the field.
"A bright future awaits and we would respectfully ask our fans to support the Club and renew their season tickets. Season ticket sales are the largest single source of income for Rangers and only the Club and the team will suffer if some of this income is withheld.
"Any decision not to renew season tickets can only damage the Club. Such action would only serve to harm the very institution that is so dear to all of us."

[Keith_M]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 3m (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/463697645601820672) Imran Ahmad has, for the second time, lost his case to have £620,000 arrested from Rangers ahead of his case alleging unpaid bonuses


Shame.

[Leithenhibby]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 3m (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/463697645601820672) Imran Ahmad has, for the second time, lost his case to have £620,000 arrested from Rangers ahead of his case alleging unpaid bonuses



He's got to appeal that, Shirley ;-)

[Eyrie]

Union of Fan(nie)s to go ahead with threat to withhold Season Ticket money (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-fans-press-ahead-with-move-to-pool-season-ticket-cash.24148150). They claim only 2,000 Season Tickets have been bought so far.
I'd say that 2000 season ticket sales so far is good going for a club in the second tier.

[southsider]

I'd say that 2000 season ticket sales so far is good going for a club in the second tier.
Not when they expect to sell 40 k and are nearly broke. How is Mr Wallace and Mr Khan going to get their well deserved bonus's if the fans do not buy ST's. The new comedy saga and THIS one could bring a few laughs.

[jacomo]

I'd say that 2000 season ticket sales so far is good going for a club in the second tier.

Dave King declares war. He's trying to force Der Hun into admin. They are not going to sign away security on their own stadium like this and he knows it.

[Eyrie]

Not when they expect to sell 40 k and are nearly broke. How is Mr Wallace and Mr Khan going to get their well deserved bonus's if the fans do not buy ST's. The new comedy saga and THIS one could bring a few laughs.
Woooosh ...


Dave King declares war. He's trying to force Der Hun into admin. They are not going to sign away security on their own stadium like this and he knows it.
It'll give us something to smile about this summer.

[Just Alf]

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 6m
Major decision time looming for Sevco.
Big meeting planned for later this week on whether or not to utilise the shareholder option.



looks like it's getting interesting again.... :cb

[Keith_M]

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 6m
Major decision time looming for Sevco.
Big meeting planned for later this week on whether or not to utilise the shareholder option.



looks like it's getting interesting again.... :cb


What's the 'shareholder option'?

[Spike Mandela]

What's the 'shareholder option'?

Something to do with current shareholders buying up a further £43m pounds of shares to offset low season ticket sales.

I'm sure a .net financial whizz kid will be along shortly to explain.

[Weststandwanab]

Something to do with current shareholders buying up a further £43m pounds of shares to offset low season ticket sales.

I'm sure a .net financial whizz kid will be along shortly to explain.

It sounds like a Rights Issue.

Basically all existing shareholders buy more shares in the same ratio as they already hold.