Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Fisherrow_Hibs]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

HMRC to vote against CVA. More soon at http://bbc.co.uk/sportscotland. #Rangers
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FH

[johnrebus]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

HMRC to vote against CVA. More soon at http://bbc.co.uk/sportscotland. #Rangers
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FH


Just reported on BBC Radio Scotland news.



:cb

[BarneyK]

Am I correct in thinking a no from HMRC would be a no for the CVA full stop?

[matty_f]

Am I correct in thinking a no from HMRC would be a no for the CVA full stop?

I think so.:thumbsup:

[down-the-slope]

:not worth:dancer:

[BarneyK]

I think so.:thumbsup:

Got to be. Even with the absence of BTC, they are due 20 odd million.

[down-the-slope]

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will reject the company voluntary arrangement proposal made by Rangers' prospective owner Charles Green.
Green's consortium hopes to have its CVA approved by creditors when they meet at Ibrox on Thursday so that the club can exit administration.
But the club needs dominant creditors HMRC and Ticketus to vote in favour to avoid the assets being sold off.
The CVA terms suggest a maximum payout of nine pence for every pound owed.
BBC Scotland has learned that administrators Duff & Phelps held a meeting with HMRC on Monday and were told of their decision.
The CVA requires the approval of 75% or more in value of the creditors, and more than 50% in value of the members, voting on the resolution.
Rangers entered administration on 14 February and await the outcome of a First Tier Tax tribunal at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over unpaid taxes - the so-called "Big Tax Case".
Under the terms of the deal struck by Green's consortium to buy Rangers, it will now proceed to purchase the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Hun is dead! :greengrin :thumbsup: :na na:


Long live the New Hun? :confused:

[johnbc70]

So is it liquidation now?

[Caversham Green]

Am I correct in thinking a no from HMRC would be a no for the CVA full stop?

Almost certainly. There's a lot of TBCs, including the BTC (:dizzy:) but HMRC have a acknowledged debt of £21m. That means the TBCs excluding the BTC would have to take the total debt up to over £84m for the CVA to succeed.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that 'Rangers Leech' is an anagram of Charles Green?

[down-the-slope]

Almost certainly. There's a lot of TBCs, including the BTC (:dizzy:) but HMRC have a acknowledged debt of £21m. That means the TBCs excluding the BTC would have to take the total debt up to over £84m for the CVA to succeed.


Yup and one of those is King claiming £20 million who has stated desire to torpedo Green

[Matty_Jack04]

Now saying that the consortium buying assets for 5.5m kicks in, is this true even though it was thought HMRC are appointing there own choice of liquidator?

[BarneyK]

So is it liquidation now?

I guess so. They will still try to shaft the Scottish game but liquidation is ever so pleasing nonetheless. :thumbsup:

[BarneyK]

Yup and one of those is King claiming £20 million who has stated desire to torpedo Green

The £20 million King claim seems to me a nonsense. It will be the latest in a long line of outrages if that is considered.

[Leithenhibby]

Thank ****** I don't look like him.

Anyway, he pretty much says no RFC would kill the game, I'm just saying clubs would have less money - and the yams have to chase money more than most.



TBH I take these analyses with a pinch of salt, but I do agree that the absence of RFC would be nowhere near as devastating as some would have us believe.

With regard to Hibs, it's certainly no accident that we are less affected than some. Rod Petrie and the Hibs board have put a lot of hard work into ensuring that the club is financially viable and they've taken and continue to take a lot of abuse for their troubles. Seeing Rangers escape lightly from their self-inflicted problems would render all that pointless. I think that's why Rod's taking a hardline approach to this.

Says who :na na:


And that is why many will "never" return to the scottish game... Sad, but true.

[BarneyK]

Now saying that the consortium buying assets for 5.5m kicks in, is this true even though it was thought HMRC are appointing there own choice of liquidator?

It could be challenged I think. It clearly does not benefit the creditors in any way.

[down-the-slope]

8346Time......:greengrin

[PatHead]

Says who :na na:


And that is why many will "never" return to the scottish game... Sad, but true.

Stop spoiling the moment and enjoy watching them squirm for the time being!










(By the way I'll be one of them)

[JeMeSouviens]

Now saying that the consortium buying assets for 5.5m kicks in, is this true even though it was thought HMRC are appointing there own choice of liquidator?

Depends. The liquidation process doesn't kick in immediately, somebody (probably D&P or Hector) has to apply to the court. Theoretically the administration could continue and a further CVA proposal be made further down the line. In reality, the money would run out.

D&P and the Green brigade can now attempt their asset sale. Hector can attempt to stop it if he sees fit.

[blackpoolhibs]

While i did not really understand 90% of whats been written here, i did have one view about this, and that was HMRC could not bend over and let them roger the ordinary tax payer.

My thoughts were they couldn't let them off with a CVA because of the signals it would have sent out, anyone in a bit of bother would just have done the same.

They had to let everyone know what the consequences will be, if you dont pay your tax.

[Leithenhibby]

Stop spoiling the moment and enjoy watching them squirm for the time being!



I want it all :greengrin






(By the way I'll be one of them) :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

I was told 2 things this week

1. HMRC will not enter into CVA's if the debt is as a result of Tax fraud.

2. HMRC have already appointed their own administrators and they are waiting in the wings.

[down-the-slope]

Now some of the shadowy secret investors will do walking away.....as Green himself stated would happe if CVA failed

[PatHead]

Any chance that Cheshire and Lancs can get a survey up quickley to confirm current feeling re Rangers getting straight back in. It is important that clubs know the strength of feeling and don't think it has gone away.

[hibs0666]

The Hun is dead! :greengrin :thumbsup: :na na:


Long live the New Hun? :confused:

Continuity Rangers it is then. Let the fun and games really begin.

[Pretty Boy]

Liquidation, liquidation ole ole ole

[Leithenhibby]

Any chance that Cheshire and Lancs can get a survey up quickley to confirm current feeling re Rangers getting straight back in. It is important that clubs know the strength of feeling and don't think it has gone away.


I think that even a blind man will see what's going on and the need for surveys are long gone... :wink:

Just my take, but I can't see how clubs can swerve this one... :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

I was told 2 things this week

1. HMRC will not enter into CVA's if the debt is as a result of Tax fraud.

2. HMRC have already appointed their own administrators and they are waiting in the wings.

HMRC have indicated who they would prefer as liquidators, should that happen;the creditors (and administrators) have accepted this. That much is in the public domain.

[BarneyK]

Latest from Chuckie -

CHARLES GREEN, who is leading a consortium to acquire Rangers Football Club, issued the following statement today.

Mr Green said: "I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.

"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5 million.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a NewCo, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5 million.

"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the Club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman.

"Also, I do not believe that by opting to vote against the CVA proposal, HMRC will generate more cash by pursuing those they believe as responsible - but that is a matter for them.

"I am particularly saddened by the fact that this decision will mean that small shareholders will lose their shares in The Rangers Football Club plc, something which we were trying to avoid happening.

"We will be exploring ways for the 26,000 shareholders who have lost their shares to subscribe for shares in the new company. We expect to appoint a private client broker in due course to allow existing shareholders and fans to buy into the new company.

"We will, however, examine how to address this with regard to shares in the new company.

"The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this Club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.

"We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL.

"I, along with my investors who believe that Rangers can have a bright future, will fight tooth and nail to ensure the Club recovers from this catastrophic phase in its proud history.

"The fans deserve better and we will work tirelessly to realise their ambitions."

[Hibbyradge]

HMRC have indicated who they would prefer as liquidators, should that happen;the creditors (and administrators) have accepted this. That much is in the public domain.

Thanks.

[joe breezy]

ice cream and jelly

the huns are deid - although we should protest at the assets not being sold for creditors...

[CropleyWasGod]

ice cream and jelly

the huns are deid - although we should protest at the assets not being sold for creditors...

HMRC and BDO will be on that particular trail.....

[GreenCastle]

SPL Fixtures due out on the 18th June - will this happen ? Will they include Rangers ?

Will the SPL even be able to start on time ? With all the legal stuff going on can we see the season actually starting when it is meant to?

I can see it being delayed and other clubs suffering due to Rangers :agree:

[GloryGlory]

Latest from Chuckie -

CHARLES GREEN, who is leading a consortium to acquire Rangers Football Club, issued the following statement today.

Mr Green said: "I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.

"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5 million.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a NewCo, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5 million.

"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the Club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman."Also, I do not believe that by opting to vote against the CVA proposal, HMRC will generate more cash by pursuing those they believe as responsible - but that is a matter for them.

"I am particularly saddened by the fact that this decision will mean that small shareholders will lose their shares in The Rangers Football Club plc, something which we were trying to avoid happening.

"We will be exploring ways for the 26,000 shareholders who have lost their shares to subscribe for shares in the new company. We expect to appoint a private client broker in due course to allow existing shareholders and fans to buy into the new company.

"We will, however, examine how to address this with regard to shares in the new company.

"The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this Club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.

"We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL.

"I, along with my investors who believe that Rangers can have a bright future, will fight tooth and nail to ensure the Club recovers from this catastrophic phase in its proud history.

"The fans deserve better and we will work tirelessly to realise their ambitions."

Errmmm - the whole point is that they haven't paid money due to the taxman. Is this guy for real? :rolleyes:

[Newry Hibs]

When will RFC officially officially cease to be? Will any Newco have any claim to their history other than we all know they are a continuing disease?

[hibs0666]

ice cream and jelly

the huns are deid - although we should protest at the assets not being sold for creditors...

I can't see how Green's purchase is simply done and dusted without the say-so of creditors. The creditors (i.e. HMRC) must surely have the ability to go back to court to challenge the Green purchase if they so desire, and get BDO onto the case pronto.

[Leithenhibby]

ice cream and jelly

the huns are deid - although we should protest at the assets not being sold for creditors...


Who said that? have I missed something .....

[hibs0666]

When will RFC officially officially cease to be? Will any Newco have any claim to their history other than we all know they are a continuing disease?

I might stick in a bid for their history. If I buy it then Hibs will become the most successful club in world football at a stroke. :thumbsup:

[PatHead]

Who said that? have I missed something .....

My understanding was that Green got the assets for £5.5 million due to a prearranged statement in the CVA.

I would think Rangers assets are worth considerably more.


BTW What is the situation on players contracts now. Are they all null and void with registrations passing to SFA?

[reservoir hibee]

Liquidation, liquidation ole ole ole

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[joe breezy]

Who said that? have I missed something .....

According to D&P Green has a deal in place to get all the assets including Ibrox and Murray Park for £5.5 million

[ehf]

Administrator Paul Clark added: "HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity.

"The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure."

So it will carry on cheating then...

[s.a.m]

Yup and one of those is King claiming £20 million who has stated desire to torpedo Green



.......so, they've been undone by a King and the Queen. Irony!

[Leithenhibby]

My understanding was that Green got the assets for £5.5 million due to a prearranged statement in the CVA.

I would think Rangers assets are worth considerably more.


BTW What is the situation on players contracts now. Are they all null and void with registrations passing to SFA?

Man this is moving fast :greengrin

1) HMRC will be looking to get the assets Im sure
2) A lot more...
3) Not sure when this would happen, but it will happen .. :greengrin

[MyJo]

Green won't get to purchase the assets for £5.5m. He is obliged to agree to a purchase and liquidation if the CVA fails but if BDO get the liquidators gig they will not allow that deal to be the best available to to the creditors, the will sell off everything separately to ensure maximum return and I can see the blue knights putting in a better offer to secure the stadium at the very least

[CropleyWasGod]

According to D&P Green has a deal in place to get all the assets including Ibrox and Murray Park for £5.5 million

Not so fast, Meester Breezeeeee. :greengrin

Cav spotted a clause in the CVA document, which suggested that not all of the assets (ie not the properties) were being transferred to the Newco.

Also, even if they are included, the creditors have the right to petition the Courts if they feel their interests are being prejudiced., eg if they think the assets are worth more.

[Monts]

Latest from Chuckie -

CHARLES GREEN, who is leading a consortium to acquire Rangers Football Club, issued the following statement today.

Mr Green said: "I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.

"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5 million.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a NewCo, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5 million.

"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the Club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman.

"Also, I do not believe that by opting to vote against the CVA proposal, HMRC will generate more cash by pursuing those they believe as responsible - but that is a matter for them.

"I am particularly saddened by the fact that this decision will mean that small shareholders will lose their shares in The Rangers Football Club plc, something which we were trying to avoid happening.

"We will be exploring ways for the 26,000 shareholders who have lost their shares to subscribe for shares in the new company. We expect to appoint a private client broker in due course to allow existing shareholders and fans to buy into the new company.

"We will, however, examine how to address this with regard to shares in the new company.

"The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this Club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.

"We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL.

"I, along with my investors who believe that Rangers can have a bright future, will fight tooth and nail to ensure the Club recovers from this catastrophic phase in its proud history.

"The fans deserve better and we will work tirelessly to realise their ambitions."

How can he possibly promise the bit in bold?

The only reason I can see that he could buy ibrox at a cut price is that no company that might have an interest in the site/property would want the hassle of all the huns blaming them for the demise of the club.

[down-the-slope]

sing along now...

Liqidation...liquidation....liquidation....its what you need

if you want to rid a pest....bring joy to all the rest..

liquidation's what you need

[magpie1892]

Admins - reason not to merge this?

[frazeHFC]

Who gives a **** about merging!

Wheeeeeey gtf huns! :rotflmao:

[hibs0666]

How can he possibly promise the bit in bold?

The only reason I can see that he could buy ibrox at a cut price is that no company that might have an interest in the site/property would want the hassle of all the huns blaming them for the demise of the club.

Now that the dirty work has been done and old Rangers are terminal, I'd bet the big hoose that other buyers will now emerge out of the woodwork.

[jgl07]

How can he possibly promise the bit in bold?

The only reason I can see that he could buy ibrox at a cut price is that no company that might have an interest in the site/property would want the hassle of all the huns blaming them for the demise of the club.


It probably reflects the fact that Ibrox has limited uses unless the City Council rezone it for residential use.

There probably will be a Rangers FC in operation next season, probably in SFL3 or the South of Scotland League.

A company might see fit to buy Ibrox with an eye to future development potential and as a multi-sports arena also capable of holding concerts etc.

The most likely use of Ibrox is as a sports venue with a future Newco Rangers as tenants.

[Vini1875]

So they will weasel out of paying their debts and reappear shortly as a hun newco. Their fans will turn up next season as if nothing had happened and in time they will just blame everyone else.

[Leithenhibby]

It probably reflects the fact that Ibrox has limited uses unless the City Council rezone it for residential use.

There probably will be a Rangers FC in operation next season, probably in SFL3 or the South of Scotland League.

A company might see fit to buy Ibrox with an eye to future development potential and as a multi-sports arena also capable of holding concerts etc.

The most likely use of Ibrox is as a sports venue with a future Newco Rangers as tenants.



Potential for someone to make money, even to rent back to them! At the going rate+ a tad .. :greengrin

[mim]

Now that the dirty work has been done and old Rangers are terminal, I'd bet the big hoose that other buyers will now emerge out of the woodwork.

You would have thought so.
The £5.5 million is only enough to pay the administrators, so zero for the creditors.
Don't think the tax man has that in mind.

[easty]

It probably reflects the fact that Ibrox has limited uses unless the City Council rezone it for residential use.

There probably will be a Rangers FC in operation next season, probably in SFL3 or the South of Scotland League.

A company might see fit to buy Ibrox with an eye to future development potential and as a multi-sports arena also capable of holding concerts etc.

The most likely use of Ibrox is as a sports venue with a future Newco Rangers as tenants.

I wonder if Mad Vlad could buy it....then refuse to let them use it until Newco Huns pay the money they should have paid for Wallace.

[CropleyWasGod]

So they will weasel out of paying their debts and reappear shortly as a hun newco. Their fans will turn up next season as if nothing had happened and in time they will just blame everyone else.

You're not keeping up, are you? :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

UPDATE REPORT.

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will reject the company voluntary arrangement proposal made by Rangers' prospective owner Charles Green.
Green's consortium hopes to have its CVA approved by creditors when they meet at Ibrox on Thursday so that the club can exit administration.
But the club needs dominant creditors HMRC and Ticketus to vote in favour to avoid the assets being sold off.
Green will now try to buy the assets and re-form Rangers as a new club.
He said: "The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.
"I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.
"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5m.
WHAT IS A CVA?

A CVA enables companies to reach an agreement with creditors about how debts could be repaid and provides for partial or full repayment depending on what the company can reasonably afford to pay.


"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a newco, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5m.
"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman."
The CVA terms suggest a maximum payout of nine pence for every pound owed but that is a best-case scenario for those awaiting payment.
Rangers entered administration on 14 February and await the outcome of a First Tier Tax tribunal at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over unpaid taxes - the so-called "Big Tax Case".
If that decision goes against the club, it would mean a further bill of anything from £35m to £70m, thereby reducing the pence-in-the-pound deal to close to zero.
The club's total debts to unsecured creditors listed in the CVA was £55m, with HMRC accounting for £21.5m of that sum.
BBC Scotland has learned that administrators Duff & Phelps held a meeting with HMRC on Monday and were told of their decision.
RANGERS CVA KEY FACTS

Rangers administrators' CVA offers 8-9p in the pound (best case scenario)
Administrators fees: £5.5m
Football debts: £3.5m
HMRC owed: £21.5m
Ticketus owed: £26.7m
Total owed to unsecured creditors: £55m


Duff & Phelps say HMRC's decision was based on "its general policy of not agreeing to a CVA where there is strong evidence of non-compliance by a company with its tax liabilities".
They said HMRC had agreed to consider the CVA proposal along with all other options but decided that the club's level of indebtedness made it unacceptable.
The administrators say HMRC would also have rejected the other offers for the club that proposed a CVA.
Administrator Paul Clark added: "HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity.
"The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure."
The CVA requires the approval of 75% or more in value of the creditors, and more than 50% in value of the members, voting on the resolution.
Under the terms of the deal struck by Green's consortium to buy Rangers, it will now proceed to purchase the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m.
By doing so, Green will try to form Rangers as a "newco" that will have to seek the approval of the 11 other Scottish Premier League clubs to play in Scotland's top tier.
Green added: "We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL

[johnrebus]

According to D&P Green has a deal in place to get all the assets including Ibrox and Murray Park for £5.5 million



Not a chance that HMRC will stand back and let this happen.

:greengrin

[easty]

You're not keeping up, are you? :greengrin

Have to be honest CWG....as far as I can tell that the **** has properly hit the fan for them, I still don't see what this means will happen. Won't Newco Huns just be voted into the SPL next season anyway?

[Since90+2]

Does this mean that all players are effectively on a free transfer?

[poolman]

This is why a transfer embargo should be put in place. It's nonsense that a buying club should be able to sell on a player, keep the proceeds yet stiff the club they bought him from.

I detest Rangers.


Exactly, I'ts fundamentally obscene that this lot are coming out with all this stuff and nonesense about 19 players on their radar etc. and they still owe money to teams like the Yams (dont mind that much :greengrin ) and Rapid Vienna

Their arrogance and shameful behaviour knows no bounds

[BarneyK]

Have to be honest CWG....as far as I can tell that the **** has properly hit the fan for them, I still don't see what this means will happen. Won't Newco Huns just be voted into the SPL next season anyway?

They may well. Mind you, they have created a lot of bad feeling now amongst the other clubs, so who knows...

[Leithenhibby]

You're not keeping up, are you? :greengrin


:top marks

[Seveno]

Wonderful news and my undying love to Hector.

The most recent stench though is coming from the news that the SPL have agreed a sponsorship deal with Weatherseal ( owner - Brian Kennedy ). He is sure to have inserted a clause that the deal falls without Rangers in the SPL. More ammunition for the Donkey to put pressure on when the vote comes.

[At The Edge]

i can imagine Doncaster has just hit the bottle, afterall did he not expect a CVA to go through.
Wonder what nonsense he will come out with now.
Traynor, Dung, Dodds stop greeting, the clyde is at bursting point already with 'we r the peepul' tears :greengrin

[Hongkong Phooey]

Once in a lifetime opportunity here folks (if all of this is correct of course).

1. Clubs hold their nerve and huns down to D3 (at best)
2. Voting system in SPL, and in turn TV rights etc, changed forever.

If Carlsberg did Old Firm bashing Tuesdays....

[MyJo]

Have to be honest CWG....as far as I can tell that the **** has properly hit the fan for them, I still don't see what this means will happen. Won't Newco Huns just be voted into the SPL next season anyway?

Only of they get the majority of existing spl clubs to agree to them being allowed back in which is looking more and more unlikely as the fans are pressuring thier own clubs not to allow them back in or face season ticket boycotts

[frazeHFC]

Hun next to me just left the building, probably heading to buy a noose. :tee hee:

[GreenPJ]

They may well. Mind you, they have created a lot of bad feeling now amongst the other clubs, so who knows...

My uneducated take in this now is that its now the time for other spl fans to determine what they want to happen. Up until this stage it was possible if a cva had been accepted that no matter what other fans and clubs wanted they were restricted. Now it looks as if the clubs will determine where they ply there trade for the next 3 years at least and so fans need to let their boards know in no uncertain terms what there feelings are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Have to be honest CWG....as far as I can tell that the **** has properly hit the fan for them, I still don't see what this means will happen. Won't Newco Huns just be voted into the SPL next season anyway?

There is a lot to be played out, TBH, and I'm not getting the jelly out yet.

Yes, the SPL vote has still to happen.

But the Newco scenario is not done and dusted either. As I say, HMRC will be on the case to make sure that doesn't happen.

[stokesmessiah]

Wonderful news and my undying love to Hector.

The most recent stench though is coming from the news that the SPL have agreed a sponsorship deal with Weatherseal ( owner - Brian Kennedy ). He is sure to have inserted a clause that the deal falls without Rangers in the SPL. More ammunition for the Donkey to put pressure on when the vote comes.

I think you are giving that announcement a little too much thought, they have been appointed the official home improvement sponsor of the SPL.

[johnrebus]

You're not keeping up, are you? :greengrin



How will liquidation affect the other charges, eg. duel contract, EBT's etc. etc.

Will they (the other charges) be dead in the water now?


:confused:

[down-the-slope]

Hun next to me just left the building, probably heading to buy a noose. :tee hee:

Make sure and sympathise with him at every opportunity...try not to smile as you do it...and make sure to mention that it must be comforting to know that Mr Green has promised it will all be ok



:tee hee:

[MB62]

HMRC have indicated who they would prefer as liquidators, should that happen;the creditors (and administrators) have accepted this. That much is in the public domain.

Given the statement today from Green that he now intends setting up a newco at a cost of £5.5m, how certain is this?

HMRC have 'preferred' liquidators but who actually 'appoints' the liquidators? is it Duff & Duffer and what role do they now play for the future?

Green states that he will be buying the assets e.g. ground training ground but can the new liquidators put a stop to this? £5.5m for Murray Park and Ibrox seems a bit short in value.

Will players contracts now be taken over by the SFA/SPL and newco will have to buy these contracts back?

[easty]

Hun next to me just left the building, probably heading to buy a noose. :tee hee:

It wasnt by the window was it?:rolleyes:

[down-the-slope]

How will liquidation affect the other charges, eg. duel contract, EBT's etc. etc.

Will they (the other charges) be dead in the water now?


:confused:


in terms of Hector...all finished...in terms of SPL investigation...still all to play for on Dual contract stuff (which would have to be bigger punishment than disrepute one if found proven

[GreenPJ]

They may well. Mind you, they have created a lot of bad feeling now amongst the other clubs, so who knows...

My uneducated take in this now is that its now the time for other spl fans to determine what they want to happen. Up until this stage it was possible if a cva had been accepted that no matter what other fans and clubs wanted they were restricted. Now it looks as if the clubs will determine where they ply there trade for the next 3 years at least and so fans need to let their boards know in no uncertain terms what there feelings are.

[down-the-slope]

My uneducated take in this now is that its now the time for other spl fans to determine what they want to happen. Up until this stage it was possible if a cva had been accepted that no matter what other fans and clubs wanted they were restricted. Now it looks as if the clubs will determine where they ply there trade for the next 3 years at least and so fans need to let their boards know in no uncertain terms what there feelings are.with a CVA they would have escaped with 'cuts and bruises'....now they need to grovel for their very existence to those they have spent the last few weeks alienating even more than ever.......

[EskbankHibby]

I genuinely think this is the only part of the process that has not gone to plan for Whyte.


Buy club with someone else's money - check

Shaft HMRC/SFA/other clubs for money - check

Administration - check

Employ pals as administrators and tell them to ramp up fees and prolong process - check

Arrange for pal to 'buy' club/assets for vastly reduced amount - check

Prepare CVA which creditors will agree to as they will be privileged to receive 9% of what they are owed and will not let the great Glasgow Rangers go to the wall - oops.

Just need the SPL to show the same baws as HMRC and sort these criminals out once and for all.

[GORDONSMITH7]

My uneducated take in this now is that its now the time for other spl fans to determine what they want to happen. Up until this stage it was possible if a cva had been accepted that no matter what other fans and clubs wanted they were restricted. Now it looks as if the clubs will determine where they ply there trade for the next 3 years at least and so fans need to let their boards know in no uncertain terms what there feelings are.


So it looks like their future in the SPL is now in the hands of the rest of the Clubs in it. Seems reasonable to me that as many Hibs fans as possible let our Board know what our feelings are on this.

BIG G

[frazeHFC]

It wasnt by the window was it?:rolleyes:

There's a balcony :wink: :greengrin

[easty]

So it looks like their future in the SPL is now in the hands of the rest of the Clubs in it. Seems reasonable to me that as many Hibs fans as possible let our Board know what our feelings are on this.

BIG G

All the SPL clubs fans need to let thier boards know how they feel. If people arent bothered enough to speak up now then they can have no complaints in 5 years time when we are back to the status quo.

[SteveHFC]

Excellent News

[Seveno]

I think you are giving that announcement a little too much thought, they have been appointed the official home improvement sponsor of the SPL.

It's a 6 figure sum with the look of add-ons.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11417

[SteveHFC]

http://z5.ifrm.com/5902/57/0/e5032634/e5032634.gif

http://z5.ifrm.com/5902/57/0/e5032634/e5032634.gif



















http://z5.ifrm.com/5902/57/0/e5032634/e5032634.gif

[Bad Martini]

My uneducated take in this now is that its now the time for other spl fans to determine what they want to happen. Up until this stage it was possible if a cva had been accepted that no matter what other fans and clubs wanted they were restricted. Now it looks as if the clubs will determine where they ply there trade for the next 3 years at least and so fans need to let their boards know in no uncertain terms what there feelings are.

I suggest your take on this is not quite so uneducated as you might think. I reckon yer spot on, and so does Thomson:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18365480

Chairmen/Boards of football clubs are known for many things but above ALL else, they are generally known to consider money before most other things. This quote, from Thomson, from the article above says it all:


"Thompson has received "emails and letters in the hundreds" from fans opposed to a Rangers newco being admitted to the SPL and the chairman suspects the issue is already having an effect on season ticket sales.

"One or two are holding back, I've no doubt about that and that effects what I'm capable of doing with regard to bringing players in," he said.

"It's not just people who are 15, 16-years-old on message boards, I'm talking about people writing in who have been season ticket holders for 30 or 40 years with very, very strong feelings."


EVERY club will be weighing this up. In todays climate they need to consider the very REAL possiblity that people just might go through with telling them to ram their season tickets and walk up tickets if they bend over and get shafted by rangers on this. Big time.

I hope the biggoted shower of bassas get ALL they ****ing deserve. ALL, they deserve. Churches, division 3. "Its a ****ing kick aboot" (nae nets) :greengrin

And when it's decided in finality, and if it happens, we shall paint the ****ing streets green and rejoice singing, DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEID.

GLORY GLORY YA BASS.

ENDOF

[SteveHFC]

http://i.imgur.com/JLijS.gifhttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m40ie9vL8Z1r6fge6.gif

http://www.renez.com/Dancing/Graphics/anim12.gifhttp://www.renez.com/Dancing/Graphics/anim12.gifhttp://www.renez.com/Dancing/Graphics/anim12.gif

[poolman]

I'll give you six squid :greengrin



http://i49.tinypic.com/ayuc82.jpg

[down-the-slope]

It's a 6 figure sum with the look of add-ons.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11417

So could be 100k...wouldnt pay D&P's fees for a week..very small beer

[Just Alf]

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc

D&P also says HMRC wants to liquidate RFC plc to enable full investigation of last decade, & to pursue wrong-doers for lost tax...




:flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Caversham Green]

Given the statement today from Greene that he now intends setting up a newco at a cost of £5.5m, how certain is this?

HMRC have 'preferred' liquidators but who actually 'appoints' the liquidators? is it Duff & Duffer and what role do they now play for the future?

Greene states that he will be buying the assets e.g. ground training ground but can the new liquidators put a stop to this? £5.5m for Murray Park and Ibrox seems a bit short in value.

Will players contracts now be taken over by the SFA/SPL and newco will have to buy these contracts back?

I don't think a newco is certain at all. The liquidators have a duty to obtain the best possible price for the assets - D&P claimed that the £5.5m offer from Green was the best they could achieve but BDO might have a different view. Liquidators are appointed by the company, but HMRC have nominated BDO and D&P haven't disputed that so it is likely to be BDO.

I made an interesting point (well I thought it was interesting) about that £5.5m purchase. If anyone has a copy of the CVA proposal, look at the 'Estimated outcome statement'. The £5.3m balance is clearly shown to be for Intellectual property rights/goodwill, Player contracts and Stock only. Freehold property has N/A (not applicable) against it. I think it must just be badly drafted but it's quite a major blunder IMO andI'm surprised none of the various bloggers noticed it.

The players contracts can be passed on to the newco under TUPE rules, but it's at the players' discretion - they can walk away if they get a better offer.

[Andy74]

Given the statement today from Green that he now intends setting up a newco at a cost of £5.5m, how certain is this?

HMRC have 'preferred' liquidators but who actually 'appoints' the liquidators? is it Duff & Duffer and what role do they now play for the future?

Green states that he will be buying the assets e.g. ground training ground but can the new liquidators put a stop to this? £5.5m for Murray Park and Ibrox seems a bit short in value.

Will players contracts now be taken over by the SFA/SPL and newco will have to buy these contracts back?

£5.5m for the stadium, training ground and players? Seems unreasonably cheap - why would creditors accept that when surely market value is way more - you could sell two or three players and get that much.

This seems, apart from the SPL vote, to be quite an easy out for them if they end up with no debt, all the assets including players, then carry on as normal.

[magpie1892]

At last. The end.

Am having a **** week and this is just the best news.

No more rangers. How good does that sound?

[Offside Trap]

HMRC statement interesting....says proposed sale of football assets can still go ahead and Huns can continue to play at Ibrox. What it doesn't say is if that is to Green....or whether it is a tactical statement saying what COULD happen under liquidation.

Sorry cant do link at moment but article on STV website has this HMRC piece at bottom.

[down-the-slope]

I think we should now name and shame all those on this thread who doubted Hector would bring home the bacon......

Three cheers for Hector

Hip Hip Hooray

Hip Hip Hooray

Hip Hip Hooray

8348

[Lucius Apuleius]

Eeeee, it is enough to make even me consider paying my taxes :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

At last. The end.

Am having a **** week and this is just the best news.

No more rangers. How good does that sound?

It's not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end, it's the end of the beginning.

Ach, sod that.... enjoy your week. :greengrin

[ScottB]

This is very much brass ring time then, will they have to start in the 3rd Division, or will they weasel their way back into the SPL and kill it dead.

[Seveno]

I don't think a newco is certain at all. The liquidators have a duty to obtain the best possible price for the assets - D&P claimed that the £5.5m offer from Green was the best they could achieve but BDO might have a different view. Liquidators are appointed by the company, but HMRC have nominated BDO and D&P haven't disputed that so it is likely to be BDO.

I made an interesting point (well I thought it was interesting) about that £5.5m purchase. If anyone has a copy of the CVA proposal, look at the 'Estimated outcome statement'. The £5.3m balance is clearly shown to be for Intellectual property rights/goodwill, Player contracts and Stock only. Freehold property has N/A (not applicable) against it. I think it must just be badly drafted but it's quite a major blunder IMO andI'm surprised none of the various bloggers noticed it.

The players contracts can be passed on to the newco under TUPE rules, but it's at the players' discretion - they can walk away if they get a better offer.


My suspicion is that the deal struck between Green and Whyte was for Whyte to sell his shares for £2 but retain the property assets which he will then rent back.

I just can't see Whyte walking away with just £2 in his pocket.

[down-the-slope]

I don't think a newco is certain at all. The liquidators have a duty to obtain the best possible price for the assets - D&P claimed that the £5.5m offer from Green was the best they could achieve but BDO might have a different view. Liquidators are appointed by the company, but HMRC have nominated BDO and D&P haven't disputed that so it is likely to be BDO.

I made an interesting point (well I thought it was interesting) about that £5.5m purchase. If anyone has a copy of the CVA proposal, look at the 'Estimated outcome statement'. The £5.3m balance is clearly shown to be for Intellectual property rights/goodwill, Player contracts and Stock only. Freehold property has N/A (not applicable) against it. I think it must just be badly drafted but it's quite a major blunder IMO andI'm surprised none of the various bloggers noticed it.

The players contracts can be passed on to the newco under TUPE rules, but it's at the players' discretion - they can walk away if they get a better offer.


Could we see BK's or someone else try and buy Ibrox (or rent from who ever buys) purchase a lower league club and do an Airdrie and say they are the True Blues .....

I think its not inconceivable...it would leave even more bagage and allow them to disassociate with the past more easily...

Another issue is the leagal entity / club licence / history one.....can of worms

[MB62]

Statement relesaed from Duff & Duffer today in response to HMRC knocking back the CVA.

'As we have always stated, administrators have a primary objective to ensure the survival of the company and in this case, this would have been achieved through a CVA. It was with HMRC’s approval, that a proposal was placed before creditors for consideration.'


I thought their primary objective was to look after the best interest of the creditors :confused:

[down-the-slope]

Buns will be top story on beeb lunchtime news at 1.25 ish.....

[Seveno]

Could we see BK's or someone else try and buy Ibrox (or rent from who ever buys) purchase a lower league club and do an Airdrie and say they are the True Blues .....

I think its not inconceivable...it would leave even more bagage and allow them to disassociate with the past more easily...

Another issue is the leagal entity / club licence / history one.....can of worms

If I had won the Euromillions jackpot last week, then I would have put in a bid to beat all the shysters.

In full ownership of the property, I would do sod all with it. Just drive through to weegie-land every month to see how the grass and weeds are growing. I might even offer tours. :greengrin

[magpie1892]

It's not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end, it's the end of the beginning.

Ach, sod that.... enjoy your week. :greengrin

Funny, 'cos I was feeling all Churchillian.

Certain as I was that rfc 1872 were doomed some time ago, I did worry a little with posters in this thread saying: 'hun will still be 2nd by a mile in 2012-13 SPL'.

They will not. I am soooooooooo looking forward to doing something big against them to erase the memory of 7-0 at hunbox in 1995 (?).

Hibernian - pay attention - after 19 May you owe us big time.

[down-the-slope]

ADMINS! (no not D&P :wink:) the competent ones...

Can we get title updated to reflect latest glorious news

[easty]

Certain as I was that rfc 1872 were doomed some time ago, I did worry a little with posters in this thread saying: 'hun will still be 2nd by a mile in 2012-13 SPL'.



They'll be either 2nd or 1st. :rolleyes:

[haagsehibby]

It's a shame they couldn't have waited till the 12th of July.

[joe breezy]

Could we see BK's or someone else try and buy Ibrox (or rent from who ever buys) purchase a lower league club and do an Airdrie and say they are the True Blues .....

I think its not inconceivable...it would leave even more bagage and allow them to disassociate with the past more easily...

Another issue is the leagal entity / club licence / history one.....can of worms

It is inconceivable as buying a football club and changing their name in that manner isn't allowed - that loophole was closed after Airdrie United did it to Clydebank

[down-the-slope]

HMRC and BDO will be on that particular trail.....

And the recently very quiet Ticketus

[MSK]

ADMINS! (no not D&P :wink:) the competent ones...

Can we get title updated to reflect latest glorious newsOnce its officially official ...or written in blue blood ..:greengrin

[EdinMike]

This is very much brass ring time then, will they have to start in the 3rd Division, or will they weasel their way back into the SPL and kill it dead.

Well this is it.

This is the decision I and I'm sure a lot of honest, hard working, law abiding (Well hmm some of yae's..) people are waiting on ! If they are accepted back then I won't be !

Can we put the final nail in this coffin !?

[Seveno]

DUFF and Phelps, administrators of Rangers issued the following statement today following the news that HMRC would reject the CVA proposal.

Paul Clark, joint administrator, said today: “We have been informed by HMRC they will not support the proposal for a Company Voluntary Arrangement at the meeting of creditors on Thursday, June 14.

“As a result of this decision, the Sale and Purchase Agreement in place with the consortium led by Charles Green will take effect and Rangers Football Club will continue within a new company structure.

“The reasons HMRC have given to us for their decision to vote against the proposal are as follows. HMRC has cited its general policy of not agreeing to a CVA where there is strong evidence of non-compliance by a company with its tax liabilities.

“HMRC had agreed to consider a CVA proposal along with all other options in the case of Rangers but having taken into consideration the extent of funds which will be made available to creditors through the CVA option, they have decided that it is not acceptable given The Rangers plc’s level of indebtedness to HMRC.

“It has also been made clear to us that other offers tendered for the Club, which took the form of a CVA, would have been treated in the same way and that the rejection is not a reflection of the Green consortium bid.

“HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity. The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure.

“HMRC consider that the decision will enable a liquidator to instigate a wider investigation into all of the financial affairs and management of the Club in recent years and to bring to task those they believe are responsible for its collapse.

“Furthermore, HMRC believes there will be an enhanced recovery of funds for creditors by pursuing those who they believe are responsible.

“The consequence of the rejection of a CVA outcome is that sanctions will be applied to the Club by UEFA and that the Club will not be able to participate in Europe for three years and the new company will need the consent of the other SPL clubs to the transfer of the share in the SPL, in order for Rangers to continue playing in the SPL.

“As we have always stated, administrators have a primary objective to ensure the survival of the company and in this case, this would have been achieved through a CVA. It was with HMRC’s approval, that a proposal was placed before creditors for consideration.

“However, it is the commercial view that the level offered within the CVA was not enough to merit departure from their normal policy of seeking a detailed investigation via a liquidator.

“However, we have been left in no doubt by HMRC the fundamental reason for the rejection of the CVA proposal is the historical non-compliance with tax liabilities by the former owners and directors of the Club.

“As we have stated previously, there is a binding contract between ourselves as administrators and Charles Green, who is leading a consortium to acquire the Club.

“The creditors’ and shareholders’ meetings will take place at Ibrox on Thursday but the results of those meetings will now be entirely academic given HMRC’s decision.

“As soon as the CVA proposal is formally rejected, Mr Green’s consortium will move towards completion of an acquisition of the business and assets of The Rangers Football Club plc. That transaction will be completed within a few days.

“The sum payable to creditors will be £5.5 million, most of which has already been paid over to us by the Green consortium.

“Over the coming months, we as administrators will continue to finalise the administration of the Club and we will work in conjunction with BDO who will undertake the liquidation process.

“We would like to thank the staff and supporters at Rangers for their great determination and professionalism during a very difficult period for the Club. While the Club will continue to face difficulties in the short term, it will survive and continue to play at Ibrox.”


Note the bit that I have put in bold. SDM last seen running for the hills.

[Paisley Hibby]

I don't think a newco is certain at all. The liquidators have a duty to obtain the best possible price for the assets - D&P claimed that the £5.5m offer from Green was the best they could achieve but BDO might have a different view. Liquidators are appointed by the company, but HMRC have nominated BDO and D&P haven't disputed that so it is likely to be BDO.

I made an interesting point (well I thought it was interesting) about that £5.5m purchase. If anyone has a copy of the CVA proposal, look at the 'Estimated outcome statement'. The £5.3m balance is clearly shown to be for Intellectual property rights/goodwill, Player contracts and Stock only. Freehold property has N/A (not applicable) against it. I think it must just be badly drafted but it's quite a major blunder IMO andI'm surprised none of the various bloggers noticed it.

The players contracts can be passed on to the newco under TUPE rules, but it's at the players' discretion - they can walk away if they get a better offer.

While I've always hoped you ARE on to something with that, I still believe the freehold property thing is too fundamental to have been a mistake/oversight. The fact that Green is now giving a 'solemn promise' his Newco Rangers will play at Ibrox suggest that he has this base covered somehow OR Green and D&P don't realise that this mistake has been made. I don't think BDO will miss it though! FWIW I think a price of £5.5m for JUST the football club probably makes sense. The property could then be sold separately as part of liquidation to help pay back creditors.

[down-the-slope]

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc

D&P also says HMRC wants to liquidate RFC plc to enable full investigation of last decade, & to pursue wrong-doers for lost tax...




:flag::flag::flag::flag:

Anyone hear the sound of David Murray filling his breeks at that statement......Another Knight Hood to be returned after it all shakes out.....

[down-the-slope]

Once its officially official ...or written in blue blood ..:greengrin

Its on the main BBC 1pm news in a minute.....thats good enough for me...and D&P have made statement confirming.....M'laud

[jgl07]

Funny, 'cos I was feeling all Churchillian.

Certain as I was that rfc 1872 were doomed some time ago

I thought it was Rangers FC 1690?

[hibs4life]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18409172

This states a liquidator will be appointed by HMRC i.e. not Duff & Phelps and that they can investigate ex directors and dealings. I'm not sure but I think they will have a big influence on what gets sold and at what price, so Mr Green may not be getting them for just 5.5m as he hopes....

[EdinMike]

Anyone hear the sound of David Murray filling his breeks at that statement......Another Knight Hood to be returned after it all shakes out.....

Yup !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18409172#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound

:flag:

[ballengeich]

So far so good. However, they will re-emerge in some form, possibly even more bitter and vile. The SPL and SFA must ensure that the Newco is not used as an excuse to avoid football punishment for the sins of Rangers 1872. The Newco must suffer whatever sanctions the existing business would have received. They shouldn't be allowed into the SFA unless they agree to that. A year's suspension from the Tribunal when it reconvenes would be a start.

[down-the-slope]

While I've always hoped you ARE on to something with that, I still believe the freehold property thing is too fundamental to have been a mistake/oversight. The fact that Green is now giving a 'solemn promise' his Newco Rangers will play at Ibrox suggest that he has this base covered somehow OR Green and D&P don't realise that this mistake has been made. I don't think BDO will miss it though! FWIW I think a price of £5.5m for JUST the football club probably makes sense. The property could then be sold separately as part of liquidation to help pay back creditors.

:faf:......like 'rangers will never again be in debt' (well other than the money they owe me)...'CVA is a certainty we have spoken to them and they were positive'...whooops....'We have shed loads of multi milionaire investors'..(cue sound of loose change being looked for down back of the sofa)....

I think a team will be at Ibrox next year...but not with Green at helm...and maybe not even in SPL...assuming they have a licence at all that is....

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

[down-the-slope]

So 3 years whatever else happens when another team will get a shot at Europe....we really need to get a team on the park this year to take advantage...come on Pat and the board...its now or never...

[down-the-slope]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

Aye Aye..you went out for a wee celebration 'juice' :wink:

[Thecat23]

RANGERS.. YOU HAVE BEEN EVICTED, PLEASE LEAVE THE BIG SPL HOUSE.

RANGERS.. YOU HAVE BEEN EVICTED, PLEASE LEAVE THE BIG SPL HOUSE.

:bye: :bye: :bye:

[jgl07]

It is inconceivable as buying a football club and changing their name in that manner isn't allowed - that loophole was closed after Airdrie United did it to Clydebank

That was nearly 40 years after Clydebank tried to do exactly the same to East Stirlingshire.

The SFL permitted franchising when they allowed Meadowbank Thistle to move grounds and change name to Livingstone.

Down south the Football League did the same when Wimbledon became Milton Keynes Dons.

Clubs have been allowed to change names and to move grounds, sometimes at the same time long before Airdrie United.

East Stirlingshire do not have a ground. Let us assume that a new ground was made available somewhere in West Lothian. Then if Hearts went bust the name of the East Stirlingshire was changed to Rim of Midlothian and their kit was altered to maroon.

What would anyone be able to do about it?

[calmac12000]

Well this is it.

This is the decision I and I'm sure a lot of honest, hard working, law abiding (Well hmm some of yae's..) people are waiting on ! If they are accepted back then I won't be !

Can we put the final nail in this coffin !?

As I and many others, have said on this forum liquidation was all but inevitable from the moment the Hun's went into administration. Particularly, when one factors in Rangers' liabilities to HMRC, who were never, despite the laptop loyals musings, ever going to accept anything less than at least a substantial payment of tax avoided.
As you so presciently say now is the point when the coup de grace can be applied. When Scottish football must stake its claim to sporting integrity and tell the entire hand shaking crowd where to go.

[down-the-slope]

I await any more statements from FIFA now......

[Moulin Yarns]

What the ell's going on?? I've just had to skip 6 pages from today to keep up!!!!

can someone confirm

No CVA - tick
BDO appointed - ?
No sale to Greene for £5.5million - ?
BDO put assets up for sale to get best price - ?
Players all leave - ?
No European football for 3 years - tick

[Mon Dieu4]

So what's the score now, they set up a newco try and get an SFA license and admitted to the SPL?

[CropleyWasGod]

What the ell's going on?? I've just had to skip 6 pages from today to keep up!!!!

can someone confirm

No CVA - tick
BDO appointed - no
No sale to Greene for £5.5million - probably will happen
BDO put assets up for sale to get best price - no
Players all leave - possibly
No European football for 3 years - probably

:greengrin

[MB62]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

Aye, this bit :greengrin

'As we have always stated, administrators have a primary objective to ensure the survival of the company
I thought their primary objective was to look after the best interest of the creditors

[BarneyK]

What the ell's going on?? I've just had to skip 6 pages from today to keep up!!!!

can someone confirm

No CVA - tick
BDO appointed - ?
No sale to Greene for £5.5million - ?
BDO put assets up for sale to get best price - ?
Players all leave - ?
No European football for 3 years - tick

No CVA, check. BDO appointed, not yet. No sale to Green, maybe. Assets for sale, maybe. Players all leave, they can, not necessarily will. No Europe for 3 years, absofrigginlutely :thumbsup:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

Are you sure?

CVA agreement says that Green will purchase the "business and assets" of RFC by 30 July - point 4.23 of the link below. Surely that would include Ibrox, Murray Park, etc? I think HMRC will challenge that.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/c9/b3/0,,5~177097,00.pdf

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

Aye, this bit :greengrin

'As we have always stated, administrators have a primary objective to ensure the survival of the company
I thought their primary objective was to look after the best interest of the creditors

As i see it, they have succeeded in that primary objective... I always did have faith in them :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Are you sure?

CVA agreement says that Green will purchase the "business and assets" of RFC by 30 July - point 4.23 of the link below. Surely that would include Ibrox, Murray Park, etc? I think HMRC will challenge that.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/c9/b3/0,,5~177097,00.pdf

Been over it a few times, and Cav has more than a few. It doesn't mention the properties.

[Andy74]

If Rangers want back in to the SPL they pretty much have to agree to anything don't they?

Now's the time to get a bigger share of cash and change the voting structure. At the very least.

[cabbageandribs1875]

:music: we're havin a party, when rangers die

:music: we're doing the conga, when rangers die




:lolrangers:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Been over it a few times, and Cav has more than a few. It doesn't mention the properties.

It doesn't exclude them either. I think the difference in price was purely due to the facts that newco will be excluded from Europe for three years and possibly kicked out of the SPL.

[BarneyK]

If Rangers want back in to the SPL they pretty much have to agree to anything don't they?

Now's the time to get a bigger share of cash and change the voting structure. At the very least.

Nah, bump them down to division 3.

[johnrebus]

Nah, bump them down to division 3.


Liquidated should mean just that.

Never mind Scottish Fitba', the country would be a better place without them.

One down, one to go.......,



:agree:

[ehf]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

No, the £5.5M goes to pay D&P's fees and their legal expenses.

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Nah, bump them down to division 3.

...of the Glasgow Sunday amateur league !

[JeMeSouviens]

Nah, bump them down to division 3.

*Then* change the tv money carve up and the voting structure. Job's a good 'un. :wink:

[BarneyK]

Liquidated should mean just that.

Never mind Scottish Fitba', the country would be a better place without them.

One down, one to go.......,



:agree:

It should, but will it... :rolleyes:

[down-the-slope]

so predictions...what will come first application by NewBuns to SPL...or Re-convened SFA tribunal....timings / order in all this makes it all the more interesting....chance of SPL fixtures being out on shedule next Monday....NIL

plenty more pages of this thread before a ball is kicked next season....

[Part/Time Supporter]

Liquidated should mean just that.

Never mind Scottish Fitba', the country would be a better place without them.

One down, one to go.......,



:agree:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19761009&id=fvY-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=aU0MAAAAIBAJ&pg=1834,2111179

This has to be said about Rangers FC, briefly, because Prague beckons. As a Scottish football club, they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace. This country would be a better place if Rangers did not exist. -- Ian Archer, 9 October 1976.

[Billychaotic182]

I feel the spl clubs will bottle it and let them back as a newco into the spl

[SurferRosa]

Apologies if this has been asked but i`ve not read through the last few pages yet..but how does this now affect the double contract investigation, the ineligible players and the years of cheating.

Is all of this now irrelevant? Can the newco still be liable for this?

[jgl07]

No, the £5.5M goes to pay D&P's fees and their legal expenses.

So a brilliant piece of Administration. The creditors end up with diddly-squat.

Duff and Phelps have not covered themselves in glory with this one.

This whole thing has been a stitch-up from the start.

[Speedway]

Liquidated should mean just that.

Never mind Scottish Fitba', the country would be a better place without them.

One down, one to go.......,



:agree:

Two to go, surely?

[PatHead]

If Rangers want back in to the SPL they pretty much have to agree to anything don't they?

Now's the time to get a bigger share of cash and change the voting structure. At the very least.


Not enough. Re-start in Division 3 or there is no integrity left whatsoever. They have cheated for years, let them suffer and start again at the bottom.

[Lincoln Green]

Does anybody actually think that the other SFL Chairmen will vote for FC Govan to reapply for the league and start again in division 3?

Turkeys do not vote for christmas and St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and probably even Celtic will keep FC Govan alive in the SPL. Its a total disgrace that a team running up so much debt and breaking so many rules will probably get away with it just because of who they are.

As a side issue does anybody else have doubts that Hibs will vote with integrity on this matter? I for one dont. :grr:

I dont post often but I am furious about this. If this was Hibs, Hearts, etc we all know what the outcome would be.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Not enough. Re-start in Division 3 or there is no integrity left whatsoever. They have cheated for years, let them suffer and start again at the bottom.

Boot them out and change the voting structure anyway.

[RyeSloan]

How can a clause in the CVA...a CVA that has now failed...be invoked to sell all the assets for £5.5m before the liquidators are appointed?

This seems like hot air and hubris and would almost certianly be challenged in court by the main creditors no?

Should the admins not now pass this to the liquidators as is and the liquidator will then pursue best value for the assets for the creditors...i.e effectively Rangers are now owned by their creditors and therefore all assets should be retained for their benefit. The common shareholder has been wiped out

What I don't understand is when this legally happens..when does the control/ownership move from the common shareholder to the liquidator/creditor? And I certainly don't understand why D&P and Green are in such an unholy rush to get the £5.5m deal completed...one final attmept to shaft every creditor one last time?

[Andy74]

Not enough. Re-start in Division 3 or there is no integrity left whatsoever. They have cheated for years, let them suffer and start again at the bottom.

Quite agree - was just thinking at least if they are to be voted back in there needs to be big changes as they are in no position to say no to anything.

The SPL doesn't have any other divisions so punting them to Division 3 isn't an option for the SPL. They just have to decide on a yes or no basis and it would be for the SFL to worry about how they fill the gap.

[JeMeSouviens]

How can a clause in the CVA...a CVA that has now failed...be invoked to sell all the assets for £5.5m before the liquidators are appointed?

This seems like hot air and hubris and would almost certianly be challenged in court by the main creditors no?

Should the admins not now pass this to the liquidators as is and the liquidator will then pursue best value for the assets for the creditors...i.e effectively Rangers are now owned by their creditors and therefore all assets should be retained for their benefit. The common shareholder has been wiped out

What I don't understand is when this legally happens..when does the control/ownership move from the common shareholder to the liquidator/creditor? And I certainyl don't understand why D&P and Green are in an unholy rush to get the £5.5m deal completed...one final attmept to shaft every creditor one last time?

By sheer coincidence, it's about the same amount as D&P have racked up in fees. :rolleyes:

[cabbageandribs1875]

in between all the no surrender watp blah blah blah threads on swallow swallow, there's actually a sensible thread asking a pertinent question in relation to the NIC's/PAYE/VAT whatever monies(which i've often wondered about myself) , WHY in the last several months did HMRC not do anything about the non-payments from the buns :confused: hertz get a letter of court proceedings every other month that they haven't been paid, so why allow the buns to go month after month after month without doing something about it a helluva lot sooner :dunno:




apologies if Q already answered 2,333,532 posts ago :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

in between all the no surrender watp blah blah blah threads on swallow swallow, there's actually a sensible thread asking a pertinent question in relation to the NIC's/PAYE/VAT whatever monies(which i've often wondered about myself) , WHY in the last several months did HMRC not do anything about the non-payments from the buns :confused: hertz get a letter of court proceedings every other month that they haven't been paid, so why allow the buns to go month after month after month without doing something about it a helluva lot sooner :dunno:




apologies if Q already answered 2,333,532 posts ago :wink:

Because Rangers had never missed a payment before. HMRC don't send the heavies round just because you miss one or two payment dates.

[Since90+2]

Does anybody actually think that the other SFL Chairmen will vote for FC Govan to reapply for the league and start again in division 3?

Turkeys do not vote for christmas and St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and probably even Celtic will keep FC Govan alive in the SPL. Its a total disgrace that a team running up so much debt and breaking so many rules will probably get away with it just because of who they are.

As a side issue does anybody else have doubts that Hibs will vote with integrity on this matter? I for one dont. :grr:

I dont post often but I am furious about this. If this was Hibs, Hearts, etc we all know what the outcome would be.

No chance IMO. The backlash from their support if they did would outway any negatives from Rangers being pumped out.

[down-the-slope]

Apologies if this has been asked but i`ve not read through the last few pages yet..but how does this now affect the double contract investigation, the ineligible players and the years of cheating.

Is all of this now irrelevant? Can the newco still be liable for this?

Answered few pages up...SPL dual contract investigation could still leave them open to 'charges'...From Hectors point of view its over (other than seeking to nail historical owners / directors)


So a brilliant piece of Administration. The creditors end up with diddly-squat.

Duff and Phelps have not covered themselves in glory with this one.

This whole thing has been a stitch-up from the start.

To be fair to D&P (hard as that is) Rangers made themselves toxic and worth diddly squat...like selling pork for a Jewish wedding feast


Not enough. Re-start in Division 3 or there is no integrity left whatsoever. They have cheated for years, let them suffer and start again at the bottom.


Div 3 would be my favoured route---and should ensure all those saying they would not go back without punishment will fill ER to the brim

[cabbageandribs1875]

Because Rangers had never missed a payment before. HMRC don't send the heavies round just because you miss one or two payment dates.


but it wasn't just the one or two payments though, or was it

[Andy74]

in between all the no surrender watp blah blah blah threads on swallow swallow, there's actually a sensible thread asking a pertinent question in relation to the NIC's/PAYE/VAT whatever monies(which i've often wondered about myself) , WHY in the last several months did HMRC not do anything about the non-payments from the buns :confused: hertz get a letter of court proceedings every other month that they haven't been paid, so why allow the buns to go month after month after month without doing something about it a helluva lot sooner :dunno:




apologies if Q already answered 2,333,532 posts ago :wink:

Was this not what HMRC applied to put them into administration for in the first place?

Hearts would have got that too if they hadn't paid up each time at the last minute.

[johnrebus]

Two to go, surely?


Well, not really. Would rather they just suffered than disappeared.

When the EBT thingy is done and dusted with the Gers it will be the Yams turn next. Seem to remember something dodgy about Skatchels reported wage in a court case a few months back?

Maybe that bloody Scottish Cup will end up on the ER sideboard after all...........,



:rolleyes:

[down-the-slope]

By sheer coincidence, it's about the same amount as D&P have racked up in fees. :rolleyes:

Nope thier fees are around £3.5 (still a scandal) with £2million of other costs like legal fees..also they have disclosed having over £3 million in the bank

[CB_NO3]

Does anybody actually think that the other SFL Chairmen will vote for FC Govan to reapply for the league and start again in division 3?

Turkeys do not vote for christmas and St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and probably even Celtic will keep FC Govan alive in the SPL. Its a total disgrace that a team running up so much debt and breaking so many rules will probably get away with it just because of who they are.

As a side issue does anybody else have doubts that Hibs will vote with integrity on this matter? I for one dont. :grr:

I dont post often but I am furious about this. If this was Hibs, Hearts, etc we all know what the outcome would be.
Pretty sure they need 8 teams do vote in their favour. I know for a fact us and Dundee United will defo not vote for them. Sure Aberdeen and Hearts will be in the same boat as us. I will be happy if they go into the 3rd division and most Rangers fans I have spoke to will accept that aswell, and am not talking about the mutant huns that say they are going to put a ring of fans round Hampden.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, the £5.5M goes to pay D&P's fees and their legal expenses.

And the proceeds of the properties go to the creditors, so they are much better off.

[SurferRosa]

Answered few pages up...SPL dual contract investigation could still leave them open to 'charges'...From Hectors point of view its over (other than seeking to nail historical owners / directors)

Cheers. :aok:

[Togs91]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?

[JimBHibees]

My opinion is that the situation has got to a stage where it is getting almost impossible for clubs to be able to vote them in to the SPL due to the furious backlash from their own fans.

[ehf]

How can a clause in the CVA...a CVA that has now failed...be invoked to sell all the assets for £5.5m before the liquidators are appointed?

This seems like hot air and hubris and would almost certianly be challenged in court by the main creditors no?

Should the admins not now pass this to the liquidators as is and the liquidator will then pursue best value for the assets for the creditors...i.e effectively Rangers are now owned by their creditors and therefore all assets should be retained for their benefit. The common shareholder has been wiped out

What I don't understand is when this legally happens..when does the control/ownership move from the common shareholder to the liquidator/creditor? And I certainly don't understand why D&P and Green are in such an unholy rush to get the £5.5m deal completed...one final attmept to shaft every creditor one last time?

The legal position is that a liquidator cannot be appointed to Oldco until the administration process is finished: that will happen when D&P sell the assets to Green's Newco for £5.5m. At which point D&P trouser the dosh and exit tout suite. BDO are then appointed liquidators to Oldco (neither they, nor D&P have any status with Newco).

But (and it's a big but), BDO can challenge the Newco deal if they consider that it did not represent best value for the creditors. To my mind, it is virtually certain that they will do so. If they succeed, the deal is null and void, so the big question for D&P and (in particular) Green, is whether they are prepared to run that risk.

[Ross4356]

What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?

[PatHead]

I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.


However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?


Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.

[johnrebus]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?


I think Falkirk won the First Division, but Brockville was not up to scratch for SPL - so Sheep stayed up......,

[ScottB]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?

The year we went from 10 to 12 teams the Dons finished bottom, but obviously there was no relegation. This wasn't done to save them.

In any case, Rangers haven't finished bottom, they've ceased to exist.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Reference how many payments they make, do business not just pay tax once a year or something?

[Andy74]

The SPL can't send them to Division 3, they can just refuse to have them in the SPL.

[Malthibby]

:agree::agree::agree:
My opinion is that the situation has got to a stage where it is getting almost impossible for clubs to be able to vote them in to the SPL due to the furious backlash from their own fans.

[Andy74]

What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?

It was worked oiut by one of the papers at around £150k per year I think. Other clubs had bigger projected shortfalls but nothing like the figures suggested by many.

It also ignored any uplift from more competitive games.

[jgl07]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?

The structure was not changed.

Aberdeen finished bottom in 2000.

The League was due to expand to 12 clubs. St Mirren and Dunfermline were promoted.

Aberdeen should have played off against Falkirk for an SPL place but Brockville was rejected as not meeting SPL requirements.

[Hovehibby]

does anyone know if they've set a date for the SPL vote yet?

[BarneyK]

The SPL can't send them to Division 3, they can just refuse to have them in the SPL.

Indeed. The pressure to cancel their SPL license is growing though, what with their entry into liquidation, their Court of Session faux pas, their ongoing SPL double-contracts investigation, and not to mention their politically suicidal refusal to accept any form of real punishment.

[JimBHibees]

The year we went from 10 to 12 teams the Dons finished bottom, but obviously there was no relegation. This wasn't done to save them.

In any case, Rangers haven't finished bottom, they've ceased to exist.

Not sure that is right it appears that there would have been a play off (like us v Airdrie) but Falkirk's ground kept them up.

This was from Wiki.

Aberdeen have finished bottom of the league on two occasions, 1916-17 and 1999-2000. They were spared relegation in 1917 after having to withdraw from the league because of World War I. In 2000, they avoided a play-off against the second and third place teams in the First Division because Falkirk's ground did not comply with SPL regulations.[2]

[StevieC]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?

There was a change to the structure and (a relegated) Aberdeen got lucky.

It wasn't changed to benefit Aberdeen .. therein lies the difference. :wink:

[down-the-slope]

Reference how many payments they make, do business not just pay tax once a year or something?



Nope..can vary PAYE mostly monthly and VAT Quarterly...but it depends on turn over...and can be different cycles than this.

Too much of a risk for HMRC (to say nothing of cash flow for goverment) to wait a year for these types of revenue..

Corporation Tax more normally annually (you need to know profit before Tax can be calculated)

[Twiglet]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but how many clubs have to vote in favour of a newco rangers being admitted into the spl?

[iwasthere1972]

Andy Goram on SSN saying be careful what you wish for. I say vote them out and don't be blackmailed.

We can live without the huns.

[Liberal Hibby]

The SPL can't send them to Division 3, they can just refuse to have them in the SPL.

Agreed - but one assumes they (and their bosses at the SFA) could also add some 'friendly advice' to the SFL about newco Rangers being back in the Scottish league structure as a benefit to Scottish football as a whole.

[jgl07]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but how many clubs have to vote in favour of a newco rangers being admitted into the spl?

I believe that an 8-4 majority is needed.

Rangers will not be able to vote so 4 clubs should be able to block a share transfer.

Aberdeen, Hibs, Celtic(?), and one other.

[iwasthere1972]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but how many clubs have to vote in favour of a newco rangers being admitted into the spl?

8 I think.

[JimBHibees]

There was a change to the structure and (a relegated) Aberdeen got lucky.

It wasn't changed to benefit Aberdeen .. therein lies the difference. :wink:

Nope they were due to play in a play off to avoid relegation but Faklkirk's ground problem meant they stayed up.

[down-the-slope]

Rangers plight and attitute reminds me of the Black Knight....watch as they claim...

'Tis But a Scratch'...'Its only a Flesh wound'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

[c31]

I believe that an 8-4 majority is needed.

Rangers will not be able to vote so 4 clubs should be able to block a share transfer.

Aberdeen, Hibs, Celtic(?), and one other.

St. Mirren are a cert after they tried to take them over, their chairman Stewart Gilmour has already voiced his anger at the goings on along the road from them.

[GreenPJ]

I presume that even if they had more money there is neither the time or the HMRC position that would allow Kennedy and Murray back into play?

[Caversham Green]

Okay, after a wee walk at lunchtime, this is the way I now see things happening.

Cav, you are right about the properties not being sold to NewCo. Green has the club, its soul if you like, for £5.5m. That's not a bad price, no matter what league they are in next season. In the SPL, it's a steal, in the SFL it's more of a medium-term payback.

The properties stay in OldCo. Their proceeds, plus the £5.5m, will be used to pay creditors. They will probably get more than they would have under the CVA, so they're better off.

Green knows that there is a limited market for Ibrox, given the listed status of the frontage. He, through another company, (or perhaps someone else that he has already lined up) will buy Ibrox and rent it to NewCo.... hence his "solemn promise" today.

Have I missed anything?

This was how I read Wild Bill Pickup's incubator plan. Oldco would rent the properties to Newco and the money would be used to reduce Oldco's debts until such time as a CVA could be achieved and then the two would merge.


It doesn't exclude them either. I think the difference in price was purely due to the facts that newco will be excluded from Europe for three years and possibly kicked out of the SPL.

The bit that I can't make my mind up about though, is that £5.5m is ridiculously low for properties like Ibrox and Murray Park plus players' registrations, stock, fixtures and fittings and effectively the business of Rangers FC without any debts. Take out the properties and it becomes more realistic (although still quite cheap IMO). On the other hand, the implication within the CVA proposal - apart from the bit I'm referring to - is that the properties are included, and the liquidation scenario produces only £4.6m - again, ridculously low, but that values goodwill, players registrations etc at only £900k. Neither option makes complete sense to me unless the porperties really have already been salted away into separate ownership....

[jgl07]

I presume that even if they had more money there is neither the time or the HMRC position that would allow Kennedy and Murray back into play?

I think that Murray was a time waster with no cash and Kennedy, as usual, was seeking attention.

[Dashing Bob S]

The SPL can't send them to Division 3, they can just refuse to have them in the SPL.

If they refused them entry into the SPL, Scottish football would be cutting its own throat, as a newco Rangers would simply go into the English Premiership, which has been their intention for some time.

[MWHIBBIES]

Colin Hendry on SSN saying that Scottish football is Rangers and Celtic

Ignorant prick

[Hovehibby]

St. Mirren are a cert after they tried to take them over, their chairman Stewart Gilmour has already voiced his anger at the goings on along the road from them.


Interesting views last week from Stephen Thomson. Could add Dundee Utd to the list

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18365480

[Andy74]

This was how I read Wild Bill Pickup's incubator plan. Oldco would rent the properties to Newco and the money would be used to reduce Oldco's debts until such time as a CVA could be achieved and then the two would merge.



The bit that I can't make my mind up about though, is that £5.5m is ridiculously low for properties like Ibrox and Murray Park plus players' registrations, stock, fixtures and fittings and effectively the business of Rangers FC without any debts. Take out the properties and it becomes more realistic (although still quite cheap IMO). On the other hand, the implication within the CVA proposal - apart from the bit I'm referring to - is that the properties are included, and the liquidation scenario produces only £4.6m - again, ridculously low, but that values goodwill, players registrations etc at only £900k. Neither option makes complete sense to me unless the porperties really have already been salted away into separate ownership....

So he could sell Naismith and McGregor for example and make his money back immediately and own a debt free Rangers, a stadium and a training centre for nowt.

Seems a bit strange to me.

[down-the-slope]

If they refused them entry into the SPL, Scottish football would be cutting its own throat, as a newco Rangers would simply go into the English Premiership, which has been their intention for some time.

Very poor attempt at :stirrer: Bob

[easty]

What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?

Dunno, but I hope the SPL chairman consider that Rangers fans have already decided they want to boycott all away games so we wouldnt make any money off them that way anyway.

[Dashing Bob S]

...the inevitable jokes comparing SDM to Lester Piggot, Jeffrey Archer etc will start very shortly. Who wants to go first?

[jgl07]

So he could sell Naismith and McGregor for example and make his money back immediately and own a debt free Rangers, a stadium and a training centre for nowt.

Seems a bit strange to me.

Except that Naismith and McGregor could opt out of the Newco transfer and walk out as free agents.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Colin Hendry on SSN saying that Scottish football is Rangers and Celtic

Ignorant prick


Hendry should STFU and keep out of the public eye after fleecing his mate for 85K last year the K***
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3747839/Colin-Hendry-Laughing-my-off-Thats-another-bottle-on-you-slurp.html

[Caversham Green]

So he could sell Naismith and McGregor for example and make his money back immediately and own a debt free Rangers, a stadium and a training centre for nowt.

Seems a bit strange to me.

Correct, and consider how much an auction of the entire contents of Ibrox and Murray Park would fetch.

[Newry Hibs]

Hendry should STFU and keep out of the public eye after fleecing his mate for 85K last year the K***
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3747839/Colin-Hendry-Laughing-my-off-Thats-another-bottle-on-you-slurp.html


Finally Hector gets his revenge!

[jgl07]

...the inevitable jokes comparing SDM to Lester Piggot, Jeffrey Archer etc will start very shortly. Who wants to go first?

Al Capone springs to mind.

[Pretty Boy]

Andy Goram on SSN saying be careful what you wish for. I say vote them out and don't be blackmailed.

We can live without the huns.

This.

I'm sure it was worked out that clubs had to attract an extra 100 fans a game to make up the shortfall from Rangers visits. Obviously that's simplistic as it doesn't take into account a potential change in the TV deal.

Scottish football just has to adapt. If Hibs vote to keep Rangers in I'd find that very hard to take. If Hibs voted against but the Huns stayed in I'd continue to go to home games but would boycott every team who voted then back on.

This is a real chance to put sporting integrity first.

[Lincoln Green]

...the inevitable jokes comparing SDM to Lester Piggot, Jeffrey Archer etc will start very shortly. Who wants to go first?

Paul Daniels both are faded institutions whose magic has disappeared. :wink:

[Thecat23]

So Rangers last 2 owners where Green & Whyte and the last player they signed was Celik. You really couldn't make this up. :faf:

[Brando7]

Daniel Bryan just heard the news

http://youtu.be/d3r5WQKmoUs

:lolrangers:

[RoxburghHibs]

So will Rangers get to keep:

1. Their current name -- Glasgow Rangers F.C.

2. Their badge

3. Their trophy record/history

[SmashinGlass]

What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?

I think the more pertinent question is how much would it cost Hibs per season in lost ticket sales if Rangers do get re-admitted

[Thecat23]

So will Rangers get to keep:

1. Their current name -- Glasgow Rangers F.C.

2. Their badge

3. Their trophy record/history

The trophies will end with the club. All the cups won they keep but any new ones starts as one. So really we're a more successful team then then if the form a New-co :thumbsup:

They will need a new badge too. They aren't actually called Glasgow Rangers so i'd imagine that may be the new name when reforming.

[iwasthere1972]

The only thing that was missing was the ransom note.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4SDxV6FDAs

Andy Goram :giruy:

Apologies for the quality. I kept moving the phone.

[gbur123ukgb]

if new co united get back into the spl which i think they will they need to be heavily punished as a result however i think chairmen of the other smaller clubs will sell the jersey's simply to have the bigots back in i hope they go to divison 3

[TowerHibs]

The trophies will end with the club. All the cups won they keep but any new ones starts as one. So really we're a more successful team then then if the form a New-co :thumbsup:

They will need a new badge too. They aren't actually called Glasgow Rangers so i'd imagine that may be the new name when reforming.


Guest :
What happens to the trophies won as Rangers FC, do they get transferred to the Newco?
Tuesday June 12, 2012 3:13

STV Andy: If the SPL approve a transfer of share to admit a New Rangers then yes, the league titles would transfer over. The same applies to other trophies if the SFA membership is approved.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that the investigation into dual contracts is still ongoing and the SPL have said that stripping titles is a possible sanction.

[monktonharp]

Yes - this whole affair shows how iffy independence could be - Scottish politicians have wanted nothing but to preserve Rangers....says an english based hibby, since a way back? always remember, there are more giant pandas in Scotland.....than tory MPs.

[gbur123ukgb]

bellend that is all goram and the rest of the ex huns are all pleading there case

[Thecat23]

Guest :
What happens to the trophies won as Rangers FC, do they get transferred to the Newco?
Tuesday June 12, 2012 3:13

STV Andy: If the SPL approve a transfer of share to admit a New Rangers then yes, the league titles would transfer over. The same applies to other trophies if the SFA membership is approved.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that the investigation into dual contracts is still ongoing and the SPL have said that stripping titles is a possible sanction.

That's crazy mate. They should lose all rights to the trophies if they fold.

[Scouse Hibee]

Plenty of like minded folk falling over themselves to avoid paying taxes!

[johnrebus]

The only thing that was missing was the ransom note.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4SDxV6FDAs

Andy Goram :giruy:

Apologies for the quality. I kept moving the phone.



Hmmmm, nice to hear the flying pig squealing outside the farmyard........,



:rolleyes:

[Dashing Bob S]

The trophies will end with the club. All the cups won they keep but any new ones starts as one. So really we're a more successful team then then if the form a New-co :thumbsup:

They will need a new badge too. They aren't actually called Glasgow Rangers so i'd imagine that may be the new name when reforming.

They might find that difficult. Wasn't there something about Celtic fans/financial opportunists buying all legal copyright names when the Huns financial difficulties were first mooted?

[John_the_angus_hibby]

I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.


However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?


Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.

Somehow, yes I would.

[ronaldo7]

When it comes to Hector and his rules, non of them have a leg to stand on.

[Thecat23]

They might find that difficult. Wasn't there something about Celtic fans/financial opportunists buying all legal copyright names when the Huns financial difficulties were first mooted?

Haha that rings a bell. That would be very funny. :greengrin

[RoxburghHibs]

Guest :
What happens to the trophies won as Rangers FC, do they get transferred to the Newco?
Tuesday June 12, 2012 3:13

STV Andy: If the SPL approve a transfer of share to admit a New Rangers then yes, the league titles would transfer over. The same applies to other trophies if the SFA membership is approved.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that the investigation into dual contracts is still ongoing and the SPL have said that stripping titles is a possible sanction.


That just doesn't add up? In theory I could start a new club today. Purchase Ibrox and call myself Huns F.C - but I would be a NEWCO with no history. Surely I can't just adopt their history?

Also I wish they would stop hidding behind the term NEWCO - should it not just be NEW CLUB?

[Hibbyradge]

How can Rangers assets e.g. Ibrox, the players and Murray park be sold, if HMRC are due £20m?

[Brando7]

I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.


However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?


Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.

Think we all should be drafting a letter up to Petrie very soon to remind him of our feelings come vote time

[TowerHibs]

That just doesn't add up? In theory I could start a new club today. Purchase Ibrox and call myself Huns F.C - but I would be a NEWCO with no history. Surely I can't just adopt their history?

Also I wish they would stop hidding behind the term NEWCO - should it not just be NEW CLUB?
in theory you could - but Greene has a binding agreement to buy assets and registrations of Old Co

Rangers get to keep all historic trophies - works the other way though. Any punishment that will be dished out due to double contracts ("only match fixing worse") will transfer to new co as they have taken over rangers membership

[frazeHFC]

.....and the captain of the Titanic? They were both at the helm of sinking ships.

[Kaiser1962]

The year we went from 10 to 12 teams the Dons finished bottom, but obviously there was no relegation. This wasn't done to save them.

In any case, Rangers haven't finished bottom, they've ceased to exist.

In reality there should be a vote to see who replaces them in the Scottish Leagues as there was following the demise of Gretna. Rangers FC will, in essence, cease to exist so therefore there will be a vacancy in the league set up. Newhun FC should take their chance to be elected by members along with Spartans and Gala Fairydean, who have been trying to get in for years.

[smurf]

Bye bye. As paying customers/supporters of our club it was us who were cheated. Our club must not vote to see them kept in.

[EdinMike]

I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.


However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?


Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.

I have been struggling to decide to go on holiday or get me a season ticket this year. ( I haven't been on a good holiday in 5 years)

And yes I can officically say I will take up this "offer" !

[Dashing Bob S]

That just doesn't add up? In theory I could start a new club today. Purchase Ibrox and call myself Huns F.C - but I would be a NEWCO with no history. Surely I can't just adopt their history?

Also I wish they would stop hidding behind the term NEWCO - should it not just be NEW CLUB?

It's not that far-fetched. The fans are what really makes up any club, not the board, who are custodians, or the players, who are temporary. If I were a businessman, I'd be going after Ibrox long before I went for the players contracts or 'intellectual' rights. Who has the church has the flock, and who has the flock has the club, even if they have to start non-league. So the scenario mooted on here earlier, about 2 competing Rangers FC's, is still credible, if a bit far-fetched.

It seems to me that Green doesn't have money to buy both parts of the club. Yet, there seems to be a belief that all the assets will end up in the hands of the same Newco (Green) and for a relatively trifling sum. That is very naive, and now that the incompetent, obstructive D&P are out the picture (who only seemed in their to buy Murray/Whyte more time) the HMRC appointed liquidators will go for the most money in the sale and won't be bound by sentiment/vested interest in the same way. I think other people might come in now.

[iwasthere1972]

.......................and Prince Philip. They both shafted the Queen good and proper.

[CropleyWasGod]

How can Rangers assets e.g. Ibrox, the players and Murray park be sold, if HMRC are due £20m?

If it comes to liquidation, all the assets will be sold. IIRC, there will be no value in the players, as I think their contracts are cancelled or revert to the SFA.

The proceeds of those sales will be distributed amongst the creditors pro rata. HMRC will still get much less than their original claim, as will everyone else, but almost certainly more than they would have under the CVA.


For the record, RFC are not yet in liquidation. D&P are still administrators, and still have much of their job to do.

[Dashing Bob S]

in theory you could - but Greene has a binding agreement to buy assets and registrations of Old Co

Rangers get to keep all historic trophies - works the other way though. Any punishment that will be dished out due to double contracts ("only match fixing worse") will transfer to new co as they have taken over rangers membership


That sounds good.

For that and other reasons, this will probably drag on to the extent I can see the newco Huns missing a season in the game.

[Kaiser1962]

The bit that I can't make my mind up about though, is that £5.5m is ridiculously low for properties like Ibrox and Murray Park plus players' registrations, stock, fixtures and fittings and effectively the business of Rangers FC without any debts. Take out the properties and it becomes more realistic (although still quite cheap IMO). On the other hand, the implication within the CVA proposal - apart from the bit I'm referring to - is that the properties are included, and the liquidation scenario produces only £4.6m - again, ridculously low, but that values goodwill, players registrations etc at only £900k. Neither option makes complete sense to me unless the porperties really have already been salted away into separate ownership....


Rangers average income over the last ten seasons tops £50m per season average. Given that most SPL clubs wage bill is between £3m-£5m then there is huge scope to make money.

[Dashing Bob S]

I have been struggling to decide to go on holiday or get me a season ticket this year. ( I haven't been on a good holiday in 5 years)

And yes I can officically say I will take up this "offer" !

It's a huge defining moment for Scottish football. The product has been dull and Hun cheating has helped strangle the last of the competition out the game. I think so many people have had enough and are ready to walk. If this window of opportunity to clean up the game is wasted by a bunch of cowards and self-interested short-termist fools who want an easy life, then it's finished in my book.

[PatHead]

BDO the liquidators of Rangers FC have made a statement

BDO partners Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen will be appointed joint-liquidators to the old company, although no timescale for when this will happen has been made available.

Cohen said: "Once BDO is formally appointed, the joint liquidators will be seeking to protect any remaining assets, maximise recoveries for the benefit of creditors, and investigate the reasons behind the failure of the company.

"It is right that there is a full and robust investigation into why the company failed, together with concerted efforts to recover monies for creditors and the taxpayer. This may include pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the financial affairs of the company in previous years."

David Murray could be in for some hard labour. Wonder if Campbell Ogilvie will get off scot free?

[Lungo--Drom]

Heard it for the first time driving home from Stirling on the M80 when I put the 1 o'clock news on the radio. Nearly swerved right off onto the hard shoulder when they read the news out,
and then this hit song from 1989 popped into my head for some reason :greengrin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dft5CgEvTPE

:woohoo: :partyhibb :cheers:

[frazeHFC]

.......................and Prince Philip. They both shafted the Queen good and proper.

:faf:

[Kaiser1962]

Would anyone else s****** ever so slightly if its now announced that the Big Tax Case has went in Rangers favour? Be honest.....

[Kyle A]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/105857-live-q-and-a-stv-fields-your-questions-on-what-happens-now-for-rangers/


On this STV Q&A a guy asked this

Guest: Guys, we are aware NewCo Rangers would inherit history of OldCo Rangers if membership transfer is agreed. What if SPL vote No to accepting them but SFA agree to transfer. Would that mean most of Ranger's history is intact but they would lose history from '98 onwards? Thanks :).

Was answered with this

STV Grant:
Rangers would still be down as the title winners but any New Rangers which started again in Division Three presumably wouldn't be viewed as the same club as Old Rangers by the SPL.

So to answer your question, New Rangers wouldn't have won SPL titles from 1998 onwards.
Also on the Q&A was this cracker

Eddie Hart :
how can the newco get a vote on if they can become an spl member surely only existing members get a vote and on that surely the oldco wont have a vote either as they no longer exist?? is there NO integrity in this game??

Answer

Eddie, the newco doesn't vote. The oldco still exists at this point and holds the share so it has the right to vote on any proposal on the table. Obviously they will vote yes but they are entitled to do so.

[ancienthibby]

BDO the liquidators of Rangers FC have made a statement

BDO partners Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen will be appointed joint-liquidators to the old company, although no timescale for when this will happen has been made available.

Cohen said: "Once BDO is formally appointed, the joint liquidators will be seeking to protect any remaining assets, maximise recoveries for the benefit of creditors, and investigate the reasons behind the failure of the company.

"It is right that there is a full and robust investigation into why the company failed, together with concerted efforts to recover monies for creditors and the taxpayer. This may include pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the financial affairs of the company in previous years."

David Murray could be in for some hard labour. Wonder if Campbell Ogilvie will get off scot free?

I think there's about to be an implosion at RFC and the SPL.

We have the completely ludicrous position of Duff and Duffer making statements about which they no longer have any say - well after the formal CVA rejection vote is in on Thursday.

Then we have the Green Goblin pontificating as if he now has a done deal on the first favoured position ahead of liquidation.:rolleyes:

Hector has already said that's not the case.:thumbsup:

The Weegie media are already forecasting that NewHunCo will be in the SPL next year.:confused:

And Donkey-caster is nowhere to be found.

The sparks have only just started!:cb

[Kato]

They might find that difficult. Wasn't there something about Celtic fans/financial opportunists buying all legal copyright names when the Huns financial difficulties were first mooted?

No one bought up "Zombie Rangers FC". That's were they'll go imho.

That way there will be a constant reminder that they were once just "Rangers" and the fans can continue in their shambling, bedraggled style without a blink. The green skin might be a draw back though.

[CB_NO3]

Colin Hendry "the Old Firm are the SPL"
Alex Rae "HMRC have done us over"
Gordon Smith "we were told the CVA would be accepted" eh by who? your Mum.

These guys are muppets and the most ignorant men on the planet.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think there's about to be an implosion at RFC and the SPL.

We have the completely ludicrous position of Duff and Duffer making statements about which they no longer have any say - well after the formal CVA rejection vote is in on Thursday.

Then we have the Green Goblin pontificating as if he now has a done deal on the first favoured position ahead of liquidation.:rolleyes:

Hector has already said that's not the case.:thumbsup:

The Weegie media are already forecasting that NewHunCo will be in the SPL next year.:confused:

And Donkey-caster is nowhere to be found.

The sparks have only just started!:cb

D&P are still administrators, and probably will be even after the CVA rejection is formalised. Remember that Plan B was to sell some/all assets to CG for £5.5m. That process will continue, albeit it will probably be challenged.

So, until they are out of office, D&P are entitled to make such statements.