Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[At The Edge]

Would a possibility of Rangers having to play every home game for a season behind closed doors be an option? means that they still get to play but generate no cash whatsoever from fan revenue.
probably the same impact as a susupension but just means that the team get a 'home' run out every 2nd week and other teams don't have a blank week to fill.
Apart from Celtic, do many other teams take a large support to Ibrox these days?

[Caversham Green]

Thats the point, we shouldnt be going down any route that has part suspension in it, is this actually in the rules?

They went to court on the basis that the years suspension of signing players was not written in the rules, well i'd bet my last penny part suspension is not there either.

1 year minimum is i think, we wouldn't want to give them a suspension thats not in the rules.

To be pendantic, it's not part suspension, it's full suspension for a set period or number of games. Suspension is certainly available and I can't see anything in the rules that prevents a suspension being for part of a season. I can't see anything that prevents a signing embargo being used as a sanction either though.

[grunt]

If they're found guilty of the dual contracts scam ...On this one, my recollection is that the SFA "inquiry" on dual contracts started almost three months ago. And for the last few months hasn't Doncaster been saying that the inquiry is "ongoing"? And now we discover that Rangers IA / D&P didn't actually respond to the SPL request for info until last week? Who kicks off a major inquiry into wholesale cheating, and then does nothing for three months?

[grunt]

If it's just league games, then what's the chances of them lining up a series of lucrative home friendlies for every Saturday afternoon through the period of league suspension? Who would want to play them? All the SPL and EPL and Championship clubs would be busy with their important league games. Those clubs wouldn't want to risk injury to their players by playing against a disgraced team who are serving their punishment.

[Barney McGrew]

Who would want to play them? All the SPL and EPL and Championship clubs would be busy with their important league games. Those clubs wouldn't want to risk injury to their players by playing against a disgraced team who are serving their punishment.

Money talks. I'm sure they could get a few foreign teams who start their seasons later on to fly over if a few bob was thrown their way. They'd also be able to get the likes of Linfield to turn up, more legends games etc. An 11 game suspension would only take them into October anyway.

They'd find a way. TBH, if it meant sticking two fingers up at the rest of Scottish football then they could probably have one half of their squad play they other and thousands of them would turn up.

That's if they have enough players in their squad by then to fill two teams though :cb

[Caversham Green]

On this one, my recollection is that the SFA "inquiry" on dual contracts started almost three months ago. And for the last few months hasn't Doncaster been saying that the inquiry is "ongoing"? And now we discover that Rangers IA / D&P didn't actually respond to the SPL request for info until last week? Who kicks off a major inquiry into wholesale cheating, and then does nothing for three months?

That should be SPL rather than SFA, although I can't really see a legitimate reason why it's not the SFA that's conducting the enquiry as I doubt whether the SPL has the power to suspend or expel them from football as a whole rather than just from their own league, and the fraudulent registering of contracts affects the whole of football.

On top of that, I now have infinitely more faith in the SFA and Regan than I do in the SPL and Doncaster who has shown himself to be inherently dishonest and incompetent IMO. It's vital that the fans of other SPL clubs keep up the pressure on him to do the right thing or resign.

[Caversham Green]

Money talks. I'm sure they could get a few foreign teams who start their seasons later on to fly over if a few bob was thrown their way. They'd also be able to get the likes of Linfield to turn up, more legends games etc. An 11 game suspension would only take them into October anyway.

They'd find a way. TBH, if it meant sticking two fingers up at the rest of Scottish football then they could probably have one half of their squad play they other and thousands of them would turn up.

That's if they have enough players in their squad by then to fill two teams though :cb

I think suspension means from the whole of football rather than just te league competitions - the SFA normally provide referees etc, so I think any games staged by RFC would have to be unofficial friendlies. And of course, they don't have any money.

[grunt]

That should be SPL rather than SFAYeah you're right. I checked before posting (I get so confused by these two "governing" bodies) and I changed the second reference but not the first.

[bingo70]

Money talks. I'm sure they could get a few foreign teams who start their seasons later on to fly over if a few bob was thrown their way. They'd also be able to get the likes of Linfield to turn up, more legends games etc. An 11 game suspension would only take them into October anyway.

They'd find a way. TBH, if it meant sticking two fingers up at the rest of Scottish football then they could probably have one half of their squad play they other and thousands of them would turn up.

That's if they have enough players in their squad by then to fill two teams though :cb

Would they have any players? I'd have thought all first team players would be sent out on loan for the period of there suspension

[CyberSauzee]

A decent summary of what can happen in the next two weeks:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2154209/Rangers-face-huge-obstacles-fortnight.html

[Phil D. Rolls]

You know, it's not like other leagues, in other countries haven't had to deal with things like this before. Why does Scotland have to try too hard to come up with a solution. Anything other than relegation to a lower league makes it hard for us to hold our head up in the company of other nations.

Oh wait, we stopped worrying about credibility many years ago. What other country structures their league so that two teams can maximise their income by playing each other a minimum 4 times a year?

[Phil D. Rolls]

A decent summary of what can happen in the next two weeks:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2154209/Rangers-face-huge-obstacles-fortnight.html

How will this affect my house price?

[Westie1875]

Can't they just relegate them and allow the Pars to stay up, throw back in the transfer ban too of course.

[Hongkong Phooey]

How will this affect my house price?

:tee hee:

[jgl07]

Can't they just relegate them and allow the Pars to stay up, throw back in the transfer ban too of course.

That is not open to the SFA.

The SPL should have docked them another 50 points before the split and all this would have been a problem for the SFL to sort out.

[Bostonhibby]

How will this affect my house price?

:confused: I thought their demise was what all this jubbilly celebrations rubbish in the pissin rain in England was about?

[s.a.m]

Would any potential suspension stop them from playing any games or just league games?

If it's just league games, then what's the chances of them lining up a series of lucrative home friendlies for every Saturday afternoon through the period of league suspension? They'd end up with even more money coming in!

I'm guessing that since the SFA don't run either of the leagues, but (I think) license clubs to participate in organised football, that they would be suspending their license to play. The ramifications would be for the SFL / SPL to work out. As someone else said, they would need referees.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm guessing that since the SFA don't run either of the leagues, but (I think) license clubs to participate in organised football, that they would be suspending their license to play. The ramifications would be for the SFL / SPL to work out. As someone else said, they would need referees.

Shirley Davie Weir could pick that up where he left off?

[jgl07]

David Healy has left Rangers after the expiration of his contract.

I bet Rangers derived great benefit from paying his wages for the past few months.

[easty]

David Healy has left Rangers after the expiration of his contract.

I bet Rangers derived great benefit from paying his wages for the past few months.

Did Rangers get any benefit from paying David Healys wages ever? He was awful!

[Phil D. Rolls]

:confused: I thought their demise was what all this jubbilly celebrations rubbish in the pissin rain in England was about?

No you are getting mixed up with the arrest of three Romanian Big Issue sellers who were plotting to murder Liz in her bed, and feed her body to the pigs. Had it not been for Eastern Europeans undercutting wages, Rangers would have been able to contribute much more to the celebrations. It's what they would have wanted the taxes they didn't pay to be spent on.

[Bostonhibby]

No you are getting mixed up with the arrest of three Romanian Big Issue sellers who were plotting to murder Liz in her bed, and feed her body to the pigs. Had it not been for Eastern Europeans undercutting wages, Rangers would have been able to contribute much more to the celebrations. It's what they would have wanted the taxes they didn't pay to be spent on.

Now I see, was a bit confused, all that standing about in the rain in a beer tent, just hope I haven't offended anyone with my over the top celbrations about the death of the huns and how it was nice to see Britain uniting to celebrate ............it was all them Union Jacks and beer that done it.:wink:

So the queens been fed to the pigs eh? no doubt we will see mass protests at Ibrox.

[Leithenhibby]

This situation is getting to the stage that the SPL can't try and keep them in the league, can they!!

Surely a blind man/ woman can see what is/ has been going on. Every day I get home from work to see 4/5 even 6+ pages added to this thread. I put the kettle on make a big brew and settle down to what has turned out to be very educational to say the least. (thanks to CWG & CG for that :aok:)

The very thought of them getting off lightly with this will kill our game off good and proper .. :rolleyes: I know that many posters have said the they (spl & sfa) need to "grow a pair" and more so than ever! An opportunity to try and give us back our game can't be lost to this lot :agree: It's bordering on madness!!..

I'm off back to work and look forward to the next few pages being added... :greengrin

[jgl07]

I am really perplexed as to what a part season suspension would involve?

The whole thing is already past being a farce. Scottish Football will become the laughing stock of Europe, if it is not that already.

So one team has to sit out the first 11 matches (or is it 22?). if it is 11 matches then certain teams will miss out on a home match and all the revenue associated. Will teams be offering a partial rebate on season tickets? Presumably the other team are awarded a 3-0.

Talk about sporting integrity! That is not on.

The SFA are in a total quandry. If they give a lesser penalty to Rangers then FIFA will be all over them like a rash. There is no penalty available that equates to a 12 month transfer ban. Hence it must be at least a one year suspension. An SFA Cup ban for Rangers will ensure that five SPL clubs will not appear in European competition next season.

[Just Alf]

Would any potential suspension stop them from playing any games or just league games?

If it's just league games, then what's the chances of them lining up a series of lucrative home friendlies for every Saturday afternoon through the period of league suspension? They'd end up with even more money coming in!

As others have said, there's Refs etc to think about... the killer is though.. WHO would play them? ..... any UEFA affiliated team would put their own position in dire jeopardy! (as well as their Country's FA)..... so the best they could hope from is some back of beyond pub team from outer mongolia or something :greengrin

:lolrangers:

[Hibrandenburg]

You know, it's not like other leagues, in other countries haven't had to deal with things like this before. Why does Scotland have to try too hard to come up with a solution. Anything other than relegation to a lower league makes it hard for us to hold our head up in the company of other nations.

Oh wait, we stopped worrying about credibility many years ago. What other country structures their league so that two teams can maximise their income by playing each other a minimum 4 times a year?

This! We are the laughing stock of Europe. Even the Italians make a show of punishing corruption in league that is corrupt to the core.

If Rangers are anywhere near the SPL next year then it's good night from me. Scottish football will cease to have any meaning for me.

[Onion]

I am really perplexed as to what a part season suspension would involve?

The whole thing is already past being a farce. Scottish Football will become the laughing stock of Europe, if it is not that already.

So one team has to sit out the first 11 matches (or is it 22?). if it is 11 matches then certain teams will miss out on a home match and all the revenue associated. Will teams be offering a partial rebate on season tickets? Presumably the other team are awarded a 3-0.

Talk about sporting integrity! That is not on.

The SFA are in a total quandry. If they give a lesser penalty to Rangers then FIFA will be all over them like a rash. There is no penalty available that equates to a 12 month transfer ban. Hence it must be at least a one year suspension. An SFA Cup ban for Rangers will ensure that five SPL clubs will not appear in European competition next season.

No team can start to compete in a league part way through - it can't be done. Who do they play, do they get any credits for the games they've missed ?

Maybe they just come back into the league for 4 matches (all v Celtic) :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

This! We are the laughing stock of Europe. Even the Italians make a show of punishing corruption in league that is corrupt to the core.

If Rangers are anywhere near the SPL next year then it's good night from me. Scottish football will cease to have any meaning for me.

You have to wonder what the point is in following a competition that is inherently rigged. Our national game (and by extension our nation) has as much credibility as Pro. Wrestling.

Now I know there are votes at stake, and the fortunes of our two biggest clubs are very delicate political subjects. Surely though, there has to come a point when our leaders have to address the issue. It means us looking like a banana republic, before we have even achieved independence.

If Rangers get away with it then you have to feel some sympathy for those who see the whole set up in Scotland as a conspiracy to maintain the establishment. I fully expect Celtic to take this opportunity to finally strike back against all those years of oppression, and seize the opportunity to put their tormentors out of business. They would surely then feel that they have earned their place in Scottish society and no longer feel like outsiders.

[cad]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

Are they for real? Are they really so naive? What a bunch of fluffs.

[jgl07]

Are they for real? Are they really so naive? What a bunch of fluffs.

I could accept it if I felt there was even a tiny hint of self-deprecating irony.

But there isn't!

[Leithenhibby]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin


Help ma boab .......... :rolleyes:

"There seems to be an alarming rise in Republicanism in this country. Too many people served by self-interest, bitterness and hatred. To them, having a kick at Rangers is as good as having a kick at the monarchy and unionism."

[Brando7]

The way I see it the SPL/SFA have 3 seperate charge opportunities to kick them out the league.

Case1. Bringing the game into disripute (embargo appeal)

Case 2. Bringing the game into disripute by taking the SFA to civil court

Case 3. Possible double contracts

There I see it there is no way Rangers can dodge anything less then a suspension or expelled from the league if they do i'd be amazed!!!

How ever the way i'd like to see this is
Case 1. Embargo Stands
Case 2. 30 deduction
Case 3. Expulsion

A nice slow death :)

[Caversham Green]

I am really perplexed as to what a part season suspension would involve?

The whole thing is already past being a farce. Scottish Football will become the laughing stock of Europe, if it is not that already.

So one team has to sit out the first 11 matches (or is it 22?). if it is 11 matches then certain teams will miss out on a home match and all the revenue associated. Will teams be offering a partial rebate on season tickets? Presumably the other team are awarded a 3-0.

Talk about sporting integrity! That is not on.

The SFA are in a total quandry. If they give a lesser penalty to Rangers then FIFA will be all over them like a rash. There is no penalty available that equates to a 12 month transfer ban. Hence it must be at least a one year suspension. An SFA Cup ban for Rangers will ensure that five SPL clubs will not appear in European competition next season.

I don't think a part season suspension is an ideal solution, but Rangers themselves have managed to engineer a position where there is no ideal solution - apart from them accepting the original sanction. My opinion is that the original sanction was just about right for the crimes they were being tried for - that of course is open to debate but both tribunals thought likewise. The signing embargo gave them the opportunity to avoid relegation but with a degree of difficulty similar to that experienced by some of the teams they cheated, and we're still looking for another punishment that puts them in the same position. A 22 game suspension would give them 16 games to save themselves and would treat the other 11 clubs equally - they all 'miss out' on a home and away game against the huns, but would be awarded a 3-0 win. There would be a spare team each week, but they could possibly arrange friendly games - in truth it's not that different from game being snowed off etc except that it's predetermined. The alternative of a full season suspension or expulsion effectively kills off RFC and, while we all think that's desirable, it was never the intention of this particular punishment. It also works regarding fixture lists and promotions with the least inconvenience to other clubs.

It might all be academic in any case because the double contracts inquiry should kill them off if they're found guilty.

Anyway, here's another good piece by Paul McConville - the guy should be on the SFA board. http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/what-might-happen-to-rangers-at-the-re-heard-appellate-tribunal/

[Hibs Class]

I don't think a part season suspension is an ideal solution, but Rangers themselves have managed to engineer a position where there is no ideal solution - apart from them accepting the original sanction. My opinion is that the original sanction was just about right for the crimes they were being tried for - that of course is open to debate but both tribunals thought likewise. The signing embargo gave them the opportunity to avoid relegation but with a degree of difficulty similar to that experienced by some of the teams they cheated, and we're still looking for another punishment that puts them in the same position. A 22 game suspension would give them 16 games to save themselves and would treat the other 11 clubs equally - they all 'miss out' on a home and away game against the huns, but would be awarded a 3-0 win. There would be a spare team each week, but they could possibly arrange friendly games - in truth it's not that different from game being snowed off etc except that it's predetermined. The alternative of a full season suspension or expulsion effectively kills off RFC and, while we all think that's desirable, it was never the intention of this particular punishment. It also works regarding fixture lists and promotions with the least inconvenience to other clubs.

It might all be academic in any case because the double contracts inquiry should kill them off if they're found guilty.

Anyway, here's another good piece by Paul McConville - the guy should be on the SFA board. http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/what-might-happen-to-rangers-at-the-re-heard-appellate-tribunal/

A 22 game suspension would mean that every other team would have a 36 game season. one home game fewer and so would need to refund everyone who has bought a ST already. Far simpler to treat them like simple cheats and boot them out (and then continue with our imperfect 12 team league including either Dundee or Dunfermline) rather than trying to find any way to accommodate them.

[alan1875]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

Unbelieveable..... They are mental.... The more I read from them with each passing issue the more I want rangers to get all that's coming to them... No humility whatsoever.

The swastika didnt used to be a symbol of hate and we all have Hitler to thank for that.... Albeit to a lesser extent but In recent history, they have done an equivelant with the union jack in this country.... Madness!

I couldn't care less about religion or politics.... It's football FFS!

****my hate filled trumpet *******s

RANT!

[Nuitdelune]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

I nearly registered just to reply to the thread...but stopped myself in time

[green glory]

I nearly registered just to reply to the thread...but stopped myself in time

Not advisable. The admins of Hunmedia keep a note of people's IP addresses. I hate to think what they do with that info.

Nazi *****.

[Caversham Green]

A 22 game suspension would mean that every other team would have a 36 game season. one home game fewer and so would need to refund everyone who has bought a ST already. Far simpler to treat them like simple cheats and boot them out (and then continue with our imperfect 12 team league including either Dundee or Dunfermline) rather than trying to find any way to accommodate them.

If they can arrange a friendly they could let the ST holders into that, or offer some other compensation for the one missed game - I don't think that's an insurmountable problem. As John Yorkston said Dunfy and Dundy are already budgetting for life in the first division and unexpected promotion could cause them more problems than it would solve. Then of course you would have to decide which of the two actually gets into the SPL - I doubt if there are any rules to cover that. I think if Rangers do expire the SPL will struggle on with 11 clubs.

On the other hand, I doubt if the SPL has rules to cover suspension for part of a season either, so it may be a non-starter. The problem with this debate is that we're all biased against Rangers and would love to see them simply booted out of football. From the SFA's point of view they are just a member club that has to be treated impartially, and it has already been decided by two independent panels that the level of punishment required for the crimes under consideration is the signing embargo so they now have to find another punishment that will be neither harsher nor more lenient than that.

[Eyrie]

An 11 game suspension might be possible if it only applied to Huns home games, thus allowing everyone a home game against them.

A 22 game suspension could be interesting, as there is a possibility of relegation and a certainty of a bottom six finish (just don't tell Sky).

But I'll suggest a full season's suspension will be the outcome, with the Huns TV money and the prize money for twelfth being divided amongst the other eleven clubs to compensate for losing a home game. It will then be up to the clubs to decide how to compensate season ticket holders (probably with vouchers for the club shops).

Don't think it would be practical to have an eleven team league playing each other four times, because that would mean finding 44 match days rather than 38.

[SteveHFC]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

What did they say in the thread?

[RyeSloan]

Wow...some of the responses on that thread are hunbelievable....

- Protestant, British and the most successful Club in the World is why we're hated

- Untold amounts of speculation portrayed as facts with everyone backing up allegations while branding the Rangers Brand Toxic.....

- British and Protestant

- Protestant work ethic, my friend, there's your evidence for it right there. Rangers & Linfield 100+ titles

- my opinion is that it has absolutly nothing to do with envy or football it is polotics.the taig want independence and we are the one and only institution in scotland that stand for the union.

- Payback – They’ve never forgiven the prods for Trafalgar and the Boyne.

-They want to be us.


And this a response to why some people don't like a football club....just reading that thread really makes you wonder how anyone could ever possibly think that Scottish football 'needs' Rangers...It clearly shows the opposite and that this is a fantastic opportunity to rid our game of a substantial amount of hatred and bigotry, an opportunity that shouldn't be missed.

[RyeSloan]

If they can arrange a friendly they could let the ST holders into that, or offer some other compensation for the one missed game - I don't think that's an insurmountable problem. As John Yorkston said Dunfy and Dundy are already budgetting for life in the first division and unexpected promotion could cause them more problems than it would solve. Then of course you would have to decide which of the two actually gets into the SPL - I doubt if there are any rules to cover that. I think if Rangers do expire the SPL will struggle on with 11 clubs.

On the other hand, I doubt if the SPL has rules to cover suspension for part of a season either, so it may be a non-starter. The problem with this debate is that we're all biased against Rangers and would love to see them simply booted out of football. From the SFA's point of view they are just a member club that has to be treated impartially, and it has already been decided by two independent panels that the level of punishment required for the crimes under consideration is the signing embargo so they now have to find another punishment that will be neither harsher nor more lenient than that.


From a biased opinion or not the rules that have been set down for them by the CoS seem to be quite clear....they now seem to have to choose from the range of punishments explicitly listed. Unless there is an 11th hour change of heart from Rangers to accept the initial punishment there seems little the SFA can do but suspend them…

[7Hero]

Juventus had the book thrown at them, and they deserved it, years in the wilderness for Italys BIGGEST club. Corrupt league it may have been or may be, but they have the balls to punish clubs..

[Minder]

From a biased opinion or not the rules that have been set down for them by the CoS seem to be quite clear....they now seem to have to choose from the range of punishments explicitly listed. Unless there is an 11th hour change of heart from Rangers to accept the initial punishment there seems little the SFA can do but suspend them…

I assume this is raised elsewhere but is the fine absorbed in the CVA? Even if now fined the maximum they only would pay 8-9%. If this is correct, with FIFA watching, the case for suspension or expulsion is clear and one or the other must surely follow.

[SteveHFC]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

Fannies :agree:

[SteveHFC]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin


Because:

Fact:
1- We're better than everyone else, and always have been.
2- We command the press and dominate the news in times good or bad because of how huge we are.

Fiction:
1- We're all racist and sectarian bigots. Down to the last child.
2- We are all English
3- We are all directly related to Edward I
4- We killed William Wallace. Down to the last child.
5- We don't pump weans.
6- We don't go on about our European cup like it was won last year against Barcelona.



From the thread

[StevieC]

The way I see it the SPL/SFA have 3 seperate charge opportunities to kick them out the league.

Case1. Bringing the game into disripute (embargo appeal)

Case 2. Bringing the game into disripute by taking the SFA to civil court

Case 3. Possible double contracts

There I see it there is no way Rangers can dodge anything less then a suspension or expelled from the league if they do i'd be amazed!!!

How ever the way i'd like to see this is
Case 1. Embargo Stands
Case 2. 30 deduction
Case 3. Expulsion


1. Suspended for a year
2. Suspended for a year, to run concurrently (just incase they try to appeal one!)
3. Stripped of all titles won whilst running double contracts.

:wink:

[jgl07]

An 11 game suspension might be possible if it only applied to Huns home games, thus allowing everyone a home game against them.

A 22 game suspension could be interesting, as there is a possibility of relegation and a certainty of a bottom six finish (just don't tell Sky).

But I'll suggest a full season's suspension will be the outcome, with the Huns TV money and the prize money for twelfth being divided amongst the other eleven clubs to compensate for losing a home game. It will then be up to the clubs to decide how to compensate season ticket holders (probably with vouchers for the club shops).

Don't think it would be practical to have an eleven team league playing each other four times, because that would mean finding 44 match days rather than 38.

40 matches surely?

[CropleyWasGod]

40 matches surely?

44 match days.

Each team would play 40 games, and have 4 weeks when they would be the "spare" team.

[Northernhibee]

That thread is comedy, especially:

Fiction:
1- We're all racist and sectarian bigots. Down to the last child.
2- We are all English
3- We are all directly related to Edward I
4- We killed William Wallace. Down to the last child.
5- We don't pump weans.
6- We don't go on about our European cup like it was won last year against Barcelona.

No to impartial punishments! :lolrangers:

[Brando7]

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%2014%20MAY%202012.pdf

Quote

G6.1.15 cancel or refuse the Registration of any Player Registered or attempted to be Registered;
G6.1.16 order that a Club concerned be debarred from Registering Players

Am i wrong in reading here with reading the rule book it does state that the SPL can block Registering Players??? If so are the courts says the under 18 rule part not within their powers but TOTAL register ban is???

[Prof. Shaggy]

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%2014%20MAY%202012.pdf

Quote

G6.1.15 cancel or refuse the Registration of any Player Registered or attempted to be Registered;
G6.1.16 order that a Club concerned be debarred from Registering Players

Am i wrong in reading here with reading the rule book it does state that the SPL can block Registering Players??? If so are the courts says the under 18 rule part not within their powers but TOTAL register ban is???

I think the problem is with the SFA rulebook.

[Spike Mandela]

Queen has just announced at Jubilee Concert that there will be an amnesty for all tax fraudsters as part of her celebrations.

What were the chances, eh?:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

Queen has just announced at Jubilee Concert that there will be an amnesty for all tax fraudsters as part of her celebrations.

What were the chances, eh?:rolleyes:

:top marks

[snooky]

Queen has just announced at Jubilee Concert that there will be an amnesty for all tax fraudsters as part of her celebrations.

What were the chances, eh?:rolleyes:

:faf:

That'll cure a lot of squeaky bums. God bless her.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Thankyou Sir Paul - you played my fave track (none of this Beatles crap!)

I pDid think it was a little insensitive to play "Live and Let Die" in front of Queenie but also spare a thought for the feelings of her bear supporters watching insuspectingly from the safety of their living rooms!

[jgl07]

I think the problem is with the SFA .......

Fixed it for you!

[H18sry]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2154209/Rangers-face-huge-obstacles-fortnight.html

[CyberSauzee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2154209/Rangers-face-huge-obstacles-fortnight.html

Filled Rolls would still like to know if his house price is affected? And presumabley how often his bins will be emptied?

[Moulin Yarns]

An 11 game suspension might be possible if it only applied to Huns home games, thus allowing everyone a home game against them.

A 22 game suspension could be interesting, as there is a possibility of relegation and a certainty of a bottom six finish (just don't tell Sky).

But I'll suggest a full season's suspension will be the outcome, with the Huns TV money and the prize money for twelfth being divided amongst the other eleven clubs to compensate for losing a home game. It will then be up to the clubs to decide how to compensate season ticket holders (probably with vouchers for the club shops).

Don't think it would be practical to have an eleven team league playing each other four times, because that would mean finding 44 match days rather than 38.

Not sure if this is possible, but let them play in the league, but all home games are behind closed doors, with no TV coverage allowed. Their fans suggested somewhere that they would boycott away games ,but turn up outside to sing their party songs, that would be an illegal gathering without permission from the authorities so they could then be arrested for Breach of the Peace.

Just throwing it into the mix.

[Just Alf]

As I've previously claimed that I want to see justice done, despite any financial drawback on the club, then I've got to say, me losing the odd game from my season ticket is a small price to pay.... Especially as the money goes directly into the team building pot :-)

[JeMeSouviens]

Andrew Smith from Scotland on Sunday on Good Morning Scotland. About as open minded and truthful appraisal of the situation as I've heard on the BBC so far ...

Starts at 2 hrs 16 mins:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01j728b

[Caversham Green]

From a biased opinion or not the rules that have been set down for them by the CoS seem to be quite clear....they now seem to have to choose from the range of punishments explicitly listed. Unless there is an 11th hour change of heart from Rangers to accept the initial punishment there seems little the SFA can do but suspend them…

Suspension is specifically listed but the period is not as far as I can see. I'm just exploring whether a suspension for less that a full season is viable because the two hearings concluded that a full season's suspension (I presume) would be fatal to the club, and that was not their intention.


I assume this is raised elsewhere but is the fine absorbed in the CVA? Even if now fined the maximum they only would pay 8-9%. If this is correct, with FIFA watching, the case for suspension or expulsion is clear and one or the other must surely follow.

I'm sure there's a provision in the protocol that fines must be paid in full so I would expect it to fall outside the CVA. They also charge interest at 4% above base on fines paid late.

[calmac12000]

Had to post this ,a question is asked in all sincerity on Rangers Media .


Why Are We Hated In Scotland ?


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=221865



The Orcs cant help themselves ,:greengrin

After careful consideration and due reflection, I can uncategorically say that the average Hun is obviously bigoted and irrademably stupid. Therefore, the sooner that club dies the better.

[Zondervan]

To be expected from Traynor - again calling for them to be let off with a slap on the wrist:

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/06/sfa-need-solution-that-punishe.html#more


SFA need solution that punishes Rangers but doesn't kick them out of football
By jim Traynor on Jun 5, 12 08:14 AM in rangers
WITH commonsense struggling to catch up the SFA and Rangers remain on collision course.

It would be wise to get under the table. And stay away from the windows.

The wreckage from this head-on will be strewn across our game's landscape.

More than one club and their fans will suffer. We'll all be damaged.

Having been found guilty on disrepute charges Rangers were fined £100,000 and banned from signing players over 18 for 12 months but the Ibrox club turned to Scots Law.

The Court of Session ruled in their favour with Lord Glennie declaring the SFA's disciplinary tribunals were "wrong to hold that they had power to impose the additional sanction in this case".

In other words, the independent inquiry and then the appeals panel had no legal right to come up with a punishment other than those open to them within the SFA's scale of sanctions.

It was a rare victory in desperately trying times for Rangers but also a hollow one because they now face a more serious sentence.

The SFA appeals body - Lord Carloway, former Partick Thistle chairman Allan Cowan and Spartans chairman Craig Graham - can now expel Rangers from the game, eject them from the Scottish Cup or terminate their membership.

With the SFA - who are being watched closely by their masters at FIFA - having to save face, Rangers have every right to fear a more savage punishment.

Ever since Lord Glennie slapped the SFA down they've been sounding bullish about the next step and making it clear Rangers have only themselves to blame.

How dare they resist the law of the game and refuse a sanction.

Actually they didn't. Rangers merely questioned whether the SFA's independent judicial inquiry - Gary Allan QC, Raith Rovers' Eric Drysdale and journalist Alistair Murning - had the right to go outwith their list of penalties.

The Court of Session said they didn't and despite the SFA's rage the mistake was made by the people who sat in judgment at the outset.

In truth there were more than a few within the SFA who were shocked when the independent panel revealed their punishment.

Indeed, one of the men at the very top of the administrative tree was so surprised by the verdict he almost fell from his lofty perch.

There was disbelief in the voices of some of the SFA people contacted minutes after the announcement.

There was also a degree of panic that the new disciplinary procedures had backfired and that's why it's a bit hypocritical to be coming across now as pious and fully supportive of the 12-month ban.

It would be more helpful if they were locked in their boardroom until they come up with a way to avoid the crash with Rangers. It's just not good enough to say, as they seem to be, that the responsibility of coming up with an alternative lies only with Rangers.

That's like saying a burglar should come up with his own sentence. "Eh, let me think yer honour. How aboot 300 hours community service workin in ma local ironmongers? I could dae wi some new wire cutters and jemmies."

Besides, who at Rangers could come up with an appropriate punishment? This is a club without a leader. They have administrators and Charles Green but no one regarded as a true figurehead.

Green is the closest to that but ever since the law told the SFA to take Rangers' transfer ban back to appeal, the Yorkshireman has been busy trying to calm spooked would-be investors.

The SFA and their chief executive, Stewart Regan, should also be aware the threat of terminating Rangers' membership could convince Green to disappear.

Come to think of it, that would be one way out of this mess. Rangers shut down. Problem solved. However, Green isn't for running, not yet anyway, so another solution needs to be found.

But by allowing everyone to think Rangers will be frozen out of the game if they don't accept their transfer ban the SFA are scaremongering - and you don't need a Law Lord to tell you that isn't one of their
sanctions either.

Instead of leaving Rangers to "volunteer" to accept their sanction Regan should be taking a lead on this issue.

He must keep a cool,
intelligent head and steer the game and Rangers away from destruction. It would help
enormously if he ignored those who want to whisper in his ear about Rangers being dreadful villains. You know the ones, they're easily spotted. They're hunched over by the burden of carrying around petty and stupid club agendas.

Regan is this game's leader and needs to stand apart, survey the mess and somehow identify a path which might lead to a better, more structured future. And preferably one with Rangers in it because despite what one or two club chairmen might believe there is no better future without Rangers.

However, the Ibrox club must also help find a solution, although that cannot be an acceptance of their 12-month signing embargo. It would be idiotic to accept a punishment deemed unlawful. The sooner the SFA accept the Court of Session is a greater legal authority than they are the quicker we might see them and Rangers reach common ground.

Actually, the SFA must already believe the law of the land to be the greater force. They are heading to the Court of Session to force Craig Whyte to pay the fine slapped on him for his mismanagement at Ibrox.

He has dismissed the fine as a "joke" but the SFA are determined to drag him into court even though they've
criticised Rangers for having taken them there.

Better if FIFA didn't find out about this but for the good of the game it has to be worked out. It's getting dangerous and it's nonsense to say nothing can be done to avert the collision.

sensible

If it were suggested Rangers should be banned from next season's Scottish Cup - which could cost them up to £750,000 - the SFA and the club would be foolish not to latch on to it.

The association can't suggest it because the matter is returning to the Appellate Tribunal and they mustn't be influenced, but if Rangers dropped their appeal the matter could be looked at differently.

If a cup ban was suggested at the same time surely that would seem like a sensible escape route for the SFA and Rangers, who understand their failure to hand over PAYE and National Insurance
contributions means their
punishment has to be harsh.

But the SFA should not be handing down sanctions which are effectively death sentences.

What fans who are driven by raw emotion, sometimes even blind hatred, think about Rangers is pretty irrelevant.

This has to be handled with a studied rationale which has been absent so far. For the good of the game, slow down, think and let commonsense - and someone who might suggest a cup ban - catch up.

[bighairyfaeleith]

To be expected from Traynor - again calling for them to be let off with a slap on the wrist:

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/06/sfa-need-solution-that-punishe.html#more


SFA need solution that punishes Rangers but doesn't kick them out of football
By jim Traynor on Jun 5, 12 08:14 AM in rangers
WITH commonsense struggling to catch up the SFA and Rangers remain on collision course.


What fans who are driven by raw emotion, sometimes even blind hatred, think about Rangers is pretty irrelevant.

This has to be handled with a studied rationale which has been absent so far. For the good of the game, slow down, think and let commonsense - and someone who might suggest a cup ban - catch up.

The man is a balloon, and one of the many so called football experts in this country that needs to disappear from our game for the good of it. To consider the fans irrelevant just shows the arrogance of the scottish media when it comes to our national sport, we won't be irrelevant this time traynor, scottish football is going to change at last and there is **** all you can do to stop it!!

[dangermouse]

The man is a balloon, and one of the many so called football experts in this country that needs to disappear from our game for the good of it. To consider the fans irrelevant just shows the arrogance of the scottish media when it comes to our national sport, we won't be irrelevant this time traynor, scottish football is going to change at last and there is **** all you can do to stop it!!

That's a bit unfair to ballons. Traynor is like Chick Dung, purports to support a "wee team" but salivates every time der Hun rack up another win. Here's hoping the SFA suspension includes both of these idiots not being allowed anywhere near reporting on Scottish Football for the forseeable future.

[lapsedhibee]

The man is a balloon, and one of the many so called football experts in this country that needs to disappear from our game for the good of it. To consider the fans irrelevant just shows the arrogance of the scottish media when it comes to our national sport, we won't be irrelevant this time traynor, scottish football is going to change at last and there is **** all you can do to stop it!!

:agree: Absolutely disgraceful article. Not wholly desperate to see the Huns themselves disappear - though that would be nice - but if the entire BBC Weejia were to go tomorrow, coverage of Scottish fitba would, at a stroke, be immeasurably improved. Traynor, Young, Dodds and Smith especially. That would be joyful.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Traynor is so intent on sucking up to the knuckle draggers he has forgotten that there are two sides to this situation.

He is so blinded by the money issues that he has forgotten that football is a sport and a sport where cheats are allowed to escape with a slap on the wrist and carry on as if nothing happened is heading for oblivion.

Rangers will not die as a result of a year long transfer embargo, they will just have a struggle, the same as 70% of clubs in Scotland have every year because of financial constraints.

He dismisses the fans as an irrelevance and that truly shows how stupid and out of touch he really is.

[EuanH78]

To be expected from Traynor - again calling for them to be let off with a slap on the wrist:

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/06/sfa-need-solution-that-punishe.html#more




I tried to read that article but was sick in my mouth a bit. I cant stand Jim Traynor or his parochial views on Scottish Football, he is the epitome of the fat, corpulent hack - a succulent lamb journalist if you will.

Hopefully part of this seminal moment in Scottish Football will be to get rid of most of 'our' slavering apologist sports journalists.

[JeMeSouviens]

Traynor is so intent on sucking up to the knuckle draggers he has forgotten that there are two sides to this situation.

He is so blinded by the money issues

I suspect not by the money issues as they concern other clubs but rather the money issues affecting the house journal of Hunnism and its falling circulation! :rolleyes:

[cad]

What a lot of pious pish Jim ,rationale ,for the good of the game ,commonsense , which if Rangers had applied any of these words in the last 10-15 years I doubt they would be in the trouble theyre in.
Traynors a journalist of sorts ,a wordsmith , a follow the Rangers line type of guy hows about you try these words Jim ,
integrity , fare play ,honesty ,accountability, sorry.

[snooky]

To be expected from Traynor - again calling for them to be let off with a slap on the wrist:

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/06/sfa-need-solution-that-punishe.html#more


SFA need solution that punishes Rangers but doesn't kick them out of football
By jim Traynor on Jun 5, 12 08:14 AM in rangers
WITH commonsense struggling to catch up the SFA and Rangers remain on collision course.

It would be wise to get under the table. And stay away from the windows.

The wreckage from this head-on will be strewn across our game's landscape ........

<Blah blah>

.... But the SFA should not be handing down sanctions which are effectively death sentences.

What fans who are driven by raw emotion, sometimes even blind hatred, think about Rangers is pretty irrelevant.

This has to be handled with a studied rationale which has been absent so far. For the good of the game, slow down, think and let commonsense - and someone who might suggest a cup ban - catch up.


Oh dear, the longstanding complaint about the west coast media’s blinkered reporting stands true.
Jim Traynor has just announced it’s “Business As Usual”

Quotation : "There are none so blind as those who will not see"

[WindyMiller]

During the Murray years he often accused Celtc of having a "biscuit-tin mentality, because they were unable/unwilling to keep up with the Huns.

I'm no lover of Celtc but at least they've kept their house in order financially.

[johnrebus]

Traynor is only protecting his job - and his windows - in all of this.


If Rangers disappear, then so will a sizeable proportion of his Daily Record readership.



Here's hoping.


:cb

[Argylehibby]

A 22 game suspension would mean that every other team would have a 36 game season. one home game fewer and so would need to refund everyone who has bought a ST already. Far simpler to treat them like simple cheats and boot them out (and then continue with our imperfect 12 team league including either Dundee or Dunfermline) rather than trying to find any way to accommodate them.

The way the league is set up just now there is no guarentee that you will get an even split of home and away fixtures. It is possible to play 20 away and 18 home as things stand and although it doesnt happen every season pretty sure it has done on a few occassions. I'm not suggesting that clubs wouldnt want to refund fans but there would be no obligation to do so.

[MrSmith]

I tried to read that article but was sick in my mouth a bit. I cant stand Jim Traynor or his parochial views on Scottish Football, he is the epitome of the fat, corpulent hack - a succulent lamb journalist if you will.

Hopefully part of this seminal moment in Scottish Football will be to get rid of most of 'our' slavering apologist sports journalists.


This!

We pay for these so-called reporters at the BBC, now is the time to enforce our position and remove these muppets from receiving public funds - this can be achieved by putting pressure on the BBC Governance in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Done!

[snooky]

Traynor is only protecting his job - and his windows - in all of this.


If Rangers disappear, then so will a sizeable proportion of his Daily Record readership.



Here's hoping.


:cb

D'ya think?

I suspect they would (or will) suck up to the next one or two teams down the food chain.

One has to eat, doesn't one?

[Sylar]

This!

We pay for these so-called reporters at the BBC, now is the time to enforce our position and remove these muppets from receiving public funds - this can be achieved by putting pressure on the BBC Governance in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Done!

His opinion wasn't aired through or on behalf of the BBC though.

It's a personal blog, whereby he's putting his own opinions forward and as vomit inducing as they are, the BBC can't be held to task for him.

[Onion]

His opinion wasn't aired through or on behalf of the BBC though.

It's a personal blog, whereby he's putting his own opinions forward and as vomit inducing as they are, the BBC can't be held to task for him.

I'm not sure bout that. If someone comes across as a racist in their own personal blog, do you think their employer can afford to ignore it and say... what he does an think in his own time has nowt to do with us. If this is Traynors personal opinion on the matter then it SHOULD be relevant and of interest to the BBC as it must sway his views and approach to his official work. You cannot divorce the 2, so I would say anyone wanting to bring this to tyne BBCs attention should go ahead - for the record of course.

[Monts]

How about the possibility of a home ground suspension?

For the season, every rangers game is an away game, where the other teams benefit from having an extra cat A game, and there is no messing about with the fixtures situation. This would be a punishment for rangers as they would miss out on a seasons gate intake, as well as losing home advantage in all their games.

[jgl07]

How about the possibility of a home ground suspension?

For the season, every rangers game is an away game, where the other teams benefit from having an extra cat A game, and there is no messing about with the fixtures situation. This would be a punishment for rangers as they would miss out on a seasons gate intake, as well as losing home advantage in all their games.

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.

:agree:

[Leithenhibby]

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.


:agree: 100%

No way on earth shall I follow another football game in Scotland, national team included, if this is allowed to happen ...

I hope they are listening to the fans!! :aok:

[Hibs Class]

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.

Me too

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree: 100%

No way on earth shall I follow another football game in Scotland, national team included, if this is allowed to happen ...

I hope they are listening to the fans!! :aok:

Slight tangent, but there is football beyond the SPL. Youth, Junior, Womens, Amateur. Football is a great game, and its fundamental appeal stretches beyond the Huns. I'm in the same boat as you: If there's a Hun presence in the SPL next season (even if Hibs arent complicit) it'll be hard to take an interest in what happens. However, I'd never let the behaviour of the Hun spoil my enjoyment of the best sport in the world.

[HibbyAndy]

If Rangers get away with it ( And Im not buying a 10 point deduction or a fine or a slap on the wrist as justice). IF they get away with CHEATING there way for years and spending MILLIONS that wasn't there's to begin with im 100% out. No over reaction for me, Im finished with Scottish Football altogether if the Huns get away with it.

[PeeJay]

:agree: 100%

No way on earth shall I follow another football game in Scotland, national team included, if this is allowed to happen ...

I hope they are listening to the fans!! :aok:

Easy for me to say I won't follow any more games from where I am if RFC stay in the SPL, but as many others have also stated, I won't. This is the Internet age - I can go anywhere in the world to any club I want for my football, and I will if my home country throws sporting integrity out the window ...

As to listening to the fans, I wish they would as you suggest, but it seems to me that in spite of all the wheeling and dealing going on in all the various quarters regarding this RFC cheating matter alone, the fans have not really been surveyed about it, or have I missed something?

I don't think "they" give a **** about "us" the fans myself ...

[Sumner]

.. "I'm out"

[snooky]

Old adage - "Expect the best and prepare for the worst"

[Leithenhibby]

Slight tangent, but there is football beyond the SPL. Youth, Junior, Womens, Amateur. Football is a great game, and its fundamental appeal stretches beyond the Huns. I'm in the same boat as you: If there's a Hun presence in the SPL next season (even if Hibs arent complicit) it'll be hard to take an interest in what happens. However, I'd never let the behaviour of the Hun spoil my enjoyment of the best sport in the world.

I think it's fair to say we probably all have the same hymn sheet, so to speak :wink: We all want what is best for "our game" But, and it's a rather big, "but"

For me it's not just the "Hun" part of this equation, it's also the part that the SPL, SFA and all the big-wigs that are part of those organisations are playing in this sorry mess.

It's fair to say that this is testing my patience to the maximum.............

[Seveno]

Traynor is so intent on sucking up to the knuckle draggers he has forgotten that there are two sides to this situation.

He is so blinded by the money issues that he has forgotten that football is a sport and a sport where cheats are allowed to escape with a slap on the wrist and carry on as if nothing happened is heading for oblivion.

Rangers will not die as a result of a year long transfer embargo, they will just have a struggle, the same as 70% of clubs in Scotland have every year because of financial constraints.

He dismisses the fans as an irrelevance and that truly shows how stupid and out of touch he really is.

Give the poor man a break. Without Rangers, his paper is dead. Not an entirely unwelcome situation admittedly but we mind end up with more of him on the radio.

[Spike Mandela]

Jim Traynor isn't so much suggesting a punishment he is putting forward a blueprint for all clubs' future business plan.

Withhold £14m PAYE and take a £100,000 fine and 1 year Scottish cup ban. Time for Traynor to move to the business section of the paper.:rolleyes:

[Spike Mandela]

In truth there were more than a few within the SFA who were shocked when the independent panel revealed their punishment.

Indeed, one of the men at the very top of the administrative tree was so surprised by the verdict he almost fell from his lofty perch.



............ehhhhhhhh, Campbell ******g Ogilvie nae ****ing doubt!!

[Sergey]

If Rangers get away with it ( And Im not buying a 10 point deduction or a fine or a slap on the wrist as justice). IF they get away with CHEATING there way for years and spending MILLIONS that wasn't there's to begin with im 100% out. No over reaction for me, Im finished with Scottish Football altogether if the Huns get away with it.

Andy - that's the most wholehearted construtive post I've ever read from you (but that's not too hard)

:greengrin

[HibbyAndy]

Andy - that's the most wholehearted construtive post I've ever read from you (but that's not too hard)

:greengrin



:hilarious


A hink ad actually agree with that:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

If HMRC or Ticketus are are minded to turn down the Huns fantastic CVA offer do they always take the full 14 days before saying so or is there a chance they will come back early with a refusal?

[CropleyWasGod]

If HMRC or Ticketus are are minded to turn down the Huns fantastic CVA offer do they always take the full 14 days before saying so or is there a chance they will come back early with a refusal?

The responses will probably be confidential until the full 14 days are up.

[SurferRosa]

Jim Traynor isn't so much suggesting a punishment he is putting forward a blueprint for all clubs' future business plan.

Withhold £14m PAYE and take a £100,000 fine and 1 year Scottish cup ban. Time for Traynor to move to the business section of the paper.:rolleyes:

Well, an Old Firm business plan at least.......any of the rest of us with even a fraction of the **** the Huns are in would have had the doors of our stadiums padlocked and put OUT of business long before now.

The cheats are right about one thing....it certainly is one rule for them and another for us..

[Paisley Hibby]

D'ya think?

I suspect they would (or will) suck up to the next one or two teams down the food chain.

One has to eat, doesn't one?

That's right - the Yams will just become the Huns.

[1875godsgift]

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.

Aye I'm with you on that one.

Any other team in the same situation would have been demoted and dealt with by now.

Any other limited company who didn't pay tax or NI contributions would have their doors padlocked and the assets sold before you could say king billy.

There's something fishy about this whole situation, I think duff n duffer didn't realise how much they would be under scrutiny approaching the end-game.

[Leithenhibby]

Aye I'm with you on that one.

Any other team in the same situation would have been demoted and dealt with by now.

Any other limited company who didn't pay tax or NI contributions would have their doors padlocked and the assets sold before you could say king billy.

There's something fishy about this whole situation, I think duff n duffer didn't realise how much they would be under scrutiny approaching the end-game.

You got to wonder if they thought we would get fed-up and just go away :wink:

It has got to be said that I'm getting a tad sick of the whole thing, but I'm in till the death on this one .. :greengrin

[grunt]

More from Scots Law blog

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/charles-green-will-be-appointed-today-to-assist-running-rangers-or-maybe-he-wont/

[cad]

I am afraid that no matter what 'compromise' formula the SFA come up with, if Rangers are in the 2012-13 Scottish Premier League I am out for good. I am sure that many other supporters feel the same.




So your not taking the view of most Hibs supporters then .:hmmm:

[Caversham Green]

More from Scots Law blog

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/charles-green-will-be-appointed-today-to-assist-running-rangers-or-maybe-he-wont/

He's got one thing wrong in that, and it's an important one. He says ST income, transfer fees and SPL money will 'be used to fund the ongoing running costs of the company as it seeks to exit administration.' It won't, the creditors are funding those costs. That income will be put into a solicitor's account for the club's use after it exits administration. And that is despite two of the three categories arising from assets that are with the company now and were indirectly funded by the default of payments to those same creditors.

That alone should kill any chance of a CVA and any money in that solicitor's account should be treated as an asset of the oldco if a newco is formed.

Edit: Actually, reading the proposal again it's only the ST money and transfer income that's going to be held back.

[proud_and_green]

Scottish fitbaw is dying in the dirt, and this tawdry affair is burying it. Get them the hell out, re-jig the leagues to 18 top teams, get prices down, or it's over.. kids already watch Match of the Day, and avoid the Crappenfest that is Sportscene. Re-invent it FAST men in suits, or watch the Rangers turn it to dust

Agree 100%:agree:

[green glory]

https://twitter.com/bbcchrismclaug/status/210322290938884096

Hopefully more bad news for the bigots.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stewart Regan says it's down to #Rangers administrators to make sure the Charles Green is fit and proper person to run club.

Aye thats a great idea? :rolleyes:

[stokesmessiah]

#SFA recieved fax from FIFA today saying they are not breaching rules re #Rangers @BBCchrismclaug (http://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug) 15 minutes ago

[IWasThere2016]

If Rangers get away with it ( And Im not buying a 10 point deduction or a fine or a slap on the wrist as justice). IF they get away with CHEATING there way for years and spending MILLIONS that wasn't there's to begin with im 100% out. No over reaction for me, Im finished with Scottish Football altogether if the Huns get away with it.

I'll attend some cup games but it is SPL no more for me.

[Gus Fring]

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BBCchrismclaug
#SFA recieved fax from FIFA today saying they are not breaching rules re #Rangers
06/06/2012 15:00 (https://twitter.com/bbcchrismclaug/status/210370539204771843)

[Just Alf]

Stewart Regan says it's down to #Rangers administrators to make sure the Charles Green is fit and proper person to run club.

Aye thats a great idea? :rolleyes:

That was my thought exactly...... :top marks

I then read a full quote and I guess it makes some sense... :confused:

Scottish FA chief executive, Stewart Regan, said: “It is important that club owners take more responsibility to ensure that they sell their club to an individual or individuals who act responsibly and within the rules of football.

“The Scottish FA governs the whole of football and rather than spend millions of pounds on investigations into any number of prospective purchases across the game at all levels - which would be better kept within the game - it is important that the onus is on those involved in the sale of the club.”

[Spike Mandela]

#SFA recieved fax from FIFA today saying they are not breaching rules re #Rangers @BBCchrismclaug (http://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug) 15 minutes ago

What does this actually mean, who isn't breaking rules?

[blackpoolhibs]

What does this actually mean, who isn't breaking rules?

The SFA apparently.

[Spike Mandela]

The SFA apparently.

Who said they were:confused: or is this FIFA challenging the CoS decision. Curious.

[blackpoolhibs]

Who said they were:confused: or is this FIFA challenging the CoS decision. Curious.

https://twitter.com/#!/BBCchrismclaug

[greenginger]

What does this actually mean, who isn't breaking rules? I think it means bad news. If FIFA is saying the SFA are within their rights to impose the player signing ban on Rangers the appeal panel can re-impose the ban instead of taking the correct decision and suspending the club for a season.

[Mon Dieu4]

I think it means bad news. If FIFA is saying the SFA are within their rights to impose the player signing ban on Rangers the appeal panel can re-impose the ban instead of taking the correct decision and suspending the club for a season.

I read it as FIFA saying that SFA were in their rights to give the ban, but they will still want other action for them taking it to court imo

[Andy74]

I think it means bad news. If FIFA is saying the SFA are within their rights to impose the player signing ban on Rangers the appeal panel can re-impose the ban instead of taking the correct decision and suspending the club for a season.

Although the SFA have already stated that they are required to operate within the laws of the land and so I think they will, as they have done, accept the judgement and come up with a new punishment that is within their power.

[Cropley10]

FIFA have taken the view previously that Associations should ignore any judgement handed out by Courts of Law.

In this case FIFA appear to be saying that it is OK for them to accept Lord Glennie's view that the matter be referred back to the Independent Appeal Tribunal.

Which in turn should mean that Rangers get a more severe punishment this time around!

[Cropley10]

I think it means bad news. If FIFA is saying the SFA are within their rights to impose the player signing ban on Rangers the appeal panel can re-impose the ban instead of taking the correct decision and suspending the club for a season.

Bad news for who?

Surely you mean good news?

[greenginger]

Bad news for who?

Surely you mean good news?


Not if you think a years player signing ban is insufficient punishment.

[Cropley10]

Not if you think a years player signing ban is insufficient punishment.

Added to the 3 years they'll not be playing in Europe, plus whatever sanction they get for going to the CoS?

They're toast anyway and might as well be expelled or suspended as they'll soon be liquidated IMHO

[DH1875]

I think it means bad news. If FIFA is saying the SFA are within their rights to impose the player signing ban on Rangers the appeal panel can re-impose the ban instead of taking the correct decision and suspending the club for a season.


I'm confused. Is it not good news :confused:.

[Matty_Jack04]

Regan just on the news saying he's spoke with FIFA and rangers won't be punished for taking them to court

[gramskiwood]

Added to the 3 years they'll not be playing in Europe, plus whatever sanction they get for going to the CoS?

They're toast anyway and might as well be expelled or suspended as they'll soon be liquidated IMHO

Regan has said that they will not be taking action against Rangers for going to the CoS. :grr:

[Barney McGrew]

Regan has said that they will not be taking action against Rangers for going to the Cos. :grr:

Why would they need to waste their time taking action against a team that's been expelled? :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

Now that is a can of worms, we should take them to court for every decision we don't like

[Dalkeith]

Regan has said that they will not be taking action against Rangers for going to the Cos. :grr:

Now free for every club in Scotland to challenge any punishment handed out to them by SFA in the courts without the fear of further actions against them for doing so

[tamig]

Now free for every club in Scotland to challenge any punishment handed out to them by SFA in the courts without the fear of further actions against them for doing so

Only if the punishment isn't specifically stated in the SFA rules though. That's why the hun went to court - the signing ban wasn't one of the listed punishments.

[VickMackie]

I thought there was a caveat in the rules along the lines of 'any punishment we see fit'?

[tamig]

I thought there was a caveat in the rules along the lines of 'any punishment we see fit'?

No. That's why the CoS referred it back to the Tribunal - because the punishment dished out wasn't mentioned anywhere in the rules.

[Jim44]

Regan just on the news saying he's spoke with FIFA and rangers won't be punished for taking them to court

......... the start of the kid-glove treatment of Rangers no doubt.

[CropleyWasGod]

......... the start of the kid-glove treatment of Rangers no doubt.

Or, perhaps, Regan has assured FIFA that the revised punishment will be as severe as, or more severe than, the original one.

[CropleyWasGod]

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BBCchrismclaug
#SFA recieved fax from FIFA today saying they are not breaching rules re #Rangers
06/06/2012 15:00 (https://twitter.com/bbcchrismclaug/status/210370539204771843)



Dear oh dear, Chris, you're supposed to be a professional wordsmith. Repeat after me, I before E, except after a few drinks....

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Or, perhaps, Regan has assured FIFA that the revised punishment will be as severe as, or more severe than, the original one.

I'd like to think that but my gut disagrees

[lapsedhibee]

Dear oh dear, Chris, you're supposed to be a professional wordsmith. Repeat after me, I before E, except after a few drinks....

An insufficiently scientific rule, imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqlZXiIZqA

[Brando7]

Regan just on the news saying he's spoke with FIFA and rangers won't be punished for taking them to court

unbelievable!!!!!

Full interview here http://sport.stv.tv/football/104990-sfa-claim-rangers-will-have-to-provide-full-disclosure-on-new-owners/

[grunt]

That's fine, a piddly crime anyway.That's as maybe.
It's a piddly crime that we probably would have been punished for.

[CropleyWasGod]

If that was the extent of the crime then ok, punish. It may appear as a witch hunt to punish in this case which is a good sign, other misdeeds will incur penalties or the spl will consist of one team.

I am thinking this way too. What we shouldn't have is a situation where there is a doubt about the justice, where the morality can be clouded by legal argument. As you say, it is likely that there are other crimes still to come to light, when natural justice will prevail.

[Onion]

That's as maybe.
It's a piddly crime that we probably would have been punished for.

Any other team bar Celtic would have been thrown out for that alone. Just how many crimes can one club commit before the authorities stand up and do their elfin job ?

[Bostonhibby]

That's fine, a piddly crime anyway.
Perhaps they will ensure clarity in future, rounds 1&2 to rangers.
The governing bodies are taking one helluva beating.
Incompetence or corruption?

Are there any masonic institutions in Europe? if so how deep does it go?

[Leithenhibby]

unbelievable!!!!!

Full interview here http://sport.stv.tv/football/104990-sfa-claim-rangers-will-have-to-provide-full-disclosure-on-new-owners/


My take on this is that they (rfc) will still get their ar$e felt good and proper.

At no point does SR say that RFC will walk away unscathed, on the contrary my take is that the panel will dish out an appropriate punishment, that will not please everyone (never going to happen) but I just hope that the SFA/Panel look at the big picture and see that whatever the decision is will determine who attends football in this country next season. Get it wrong and the "games a boggie" ..........

[gramskiwood]

That's fine, a piddly crime anyway.
Perhaps they will ensure clarity in future, rounds 1&2 to rangers.
The governing bodies are taking one helluva beating.
Incompetence or corruption?

I think we all know the answer to that question. :confused:

[joe breezy]

Remember this I just the Craig Whyte episode we still have the recent shenanigans to come, there can't be a rangers in the SPL next season...

[joe breezy]

Also why worry about a Regan statement, it's got nothing to do with him it's an independent trio that will give them a greater punishment

[Spike Mandela]

My take on this is that they (rfc) will still get their ar$e felt good and proper.

At no point does SR say that RFC will walk away unscathed, on the contrary my take is that the panel will dish out an appropriate punishment, that will not please everyone (never going to happen) but I just hope that the SFA/Panel look at the big picture and see that whatever the decision is will determine who attends football in this country next season. Get it wrong and the "games a boggie" ..........

Every time I hear Stewart Regan the more impressed I am. He strikes me as a man trying his best to get on top of this unholy mess at Rangers whilst trying to keep the SFA true to it's principles of integrity and fairness to all teams.

I think the next step is obvious and Rangers know it will be suspension but their next move will be to raise an appeal near the 21st day of the cooling down period to delay the process further. They will try and appeal to get the case taking back to the original tribunal.

[Minder]

Incompetence or corruption?

Neither, they obviously decided to shake hands and move forward.:greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

Every time I hear Stewart Regan the more impressed I am. He strikes me as a man trying his best to get on top of this unholy mess at Rangers whilst trying to keep the SFA true to it's principles of integrity and fairness to all teams.

I think the next step is obvious and Rangers know it will be suspension but their next move will be to raise an appeal near the 21st day of the cooling down period to delay the process further. They will try and appeal to get the case taking back to the original tribunal.

OMG, Please no more back stepping.

By the end of this I'm sure RFC will be wishing they had just taken their medicine and moved on. They will exhaust every avenue available to them and I can't blame them for that.

One thing is for sure, when the punishment(s) do arrive, they are going to sting! .... :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Neither, they obviously decided to shake hands and move forward.:greengrin

:greengrin

[jgl07]

Are there any masonic institutions in Europe? if so how deep does it go?

Are you kidding.

There are masonic organizations throughout the world.

They were traditionally quite strong in Switzerland especially in Protestant cantons.

The French revoution was largely organized by masonic organizations especially the Girondins (from Bordeaux) and the Jacobins.

[grunt]

... how many crimes can one club commit before the authorities stand up and do their elfin job ?Sounds like a line from Bob Dylan!

[joe breezy]

WTF has it got to do with the masons?
They don't have the judicial power they maybe once had...

I don't believe they do anyway, its just a social club, and there's plenty Catholics in it too

Regan (not a very 'Proddy' name for conspiracy theorists) is doing an alright job in saying its up to the appellate.,.

The way I see it is that surely the Craig Whyte stuff is minor compared to 20 years of prior criminality and the investigation of that has just begun

Surely it can only get worse for the huns

[Leithenhibby]

WTF has it got to do with the masons?
They don't have the judicial power they maybe once had...

I don't believe they do anyway, its just a social club, and there's plenty Catholics in it too

Regan (not a very 'Proddy' name for conspiracy theorists) is doing an alright job in saying its up to the appellate.,.

The way I see it is that surely the Craig Whyte stuff is minor compared to 20 years of prior criminality and the investigation of that has just begun

Surely it can only get worse for the huns

I'd say ... :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

It looks like Craigie Whyte is trying to emulate Mad Vlad.

fails to show up in court

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4358998/Tycoon-Craig-Whyte-in-court-rap-no-show.html

Fails to pay a fine

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9309184/SFA-considers-legal-action-against-Rangers-owner-Craig-Whyte-to-recoup-200000-fine.html

No doubt will come out with a rant about Glasgow Mafia sometime soon

Making Scottish football look bad to the rest of the world

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/scottish-premier/9314839/Rangers-fiasco-is-painting-Scottish-football-in-a-bad-light-admits-SFA-chief-executive-Stewart-Regan.html

[whiskyhibby]

The most depressing thing is that the SPL/SFA are efffectively saying the Ugly sisters can never be relegated from the top tier........ So much for sporting integrity!!


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?jhndfh

[EuanH78]

The most depressing thing is that the SPL/SFA are efffectively saying the Ugly sisters can never be relegated from the top tier........ So much for sporting integrity!!


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?jhndfh

Where did you get this idea from? Things are changing here. Wouldn't be surprised for Rangers to get suspended (in fact I think it's likely)

Fair enough, Doncaster has been trumpeting the 'we need the OF' line but even he has went quiet recently, Rangers brand is becoming too toxic for people to touch IMO. I have seen/ heard nothing from the SFA that suggests they will be going easy on the Hun even if the SPL do.

One way or another Rangers are going to get screwed to the wall.

[Just Alf]

WTF has it got to do with the masons?
They don't have the judicial power they maybe once had...

I don't believe they do anyway, its just a social club, and there's plenty Catholics in it too

Regan (not a very 'Proddy' name for conspiracy theorists) is doing an alright job in saying its up to the appellate.,.

The way I see it is that surely the Craig Whyte stuff is minor compared to 20 years of prior criminality and the investigation of that has just begun

Surely it can only get worse for the huns

LOL, looks like too many peeps have been reading Hun Media..... I'm worried it's starting to wear off on some of us! .... I'll need to stop my own guilty pleasure just in case. :-/

[stokesmessiah]

Where did you get this idea from? Things are changing here. Wouldn't be surprised for Rangers to get suspended (in fact I think it's likely)

Fair enough, Doncaster has been trumpeting the 'we need the OF' line but even he has went quiet recently, Rangers brand is becoming too toxic for people to touch IMO. I have seen/ heard nothing from the SFA that suggests they will be going easy on the Hun even if the SPL do.

One way or another Rangers are going to get screwed to the wall.

I notice that the Rangers fans who felt a great sense of injustice at being given a punishment that was not written in the rule book and lauded their "victory" in the court of session are now looking for a Scottish cup ban. Correct me if i am wrong but i am pretty sure that a Scottish cup ban is not in the book either?

[down-the-slope]

Mr Greene has been very very quiet past few days......:rolleyes:

Anyone heard anything from Rangers sponsors? Most deals will have clauses to prevent damage to sponsor in certain circumstances...

[grunt]

Mr Greene has been very very quiet past few days......:rolleyes:



http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-finds-common-ground-with-fans-after-constructive-meeting-at-ibrox.17808254


Herald Sport understands that Green may have finally drawn the funds together through the backing of an investor in Manchester, and he suggested to the RFFF that £10m has been raised. Green was also bullishly confident about the CVA vote, which will be held next Thursday, despite financial sources consistently questioning this analysis.

[johnrebus]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-finds-common-ground-with-fans-after-constructive-meeting-at-ibrox.17808254


Fabulous stuff.

The Huns stand on the edge of oblivion and Charlie boy says, 'look, fork out out five hundred quid and I'll give you the chance to change the name of Murray Park'.


Charlie Green, he is the man.



:thumbsup:

[WindyMiller]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-finds-common-ground-with-fans-after-constructive-meeting-at-ibrox.17808254


Can you cut and paste the article please Grunt?

I don't have access to it.


Edit:

It's probably the same p15h as this;

RANGERS supporters will be given the chance to rename the Murray Park training ground, according to Charles Green, who leads consortium trying to buy the ailing Glasgow (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) club.
Green met yesterday with the Rangers Fans’ Fighting Fund and he described the meeting as “constructive”.
One of the issues raised was the Rangers training complex at Auchenhowie, opened in July 2001 and named after Sir David Murray, the club’s then owner who has come under fire after selling to Craig Whyte last year.
If Green can bring the club out of administraton through a Company Voluntary Agreement, season-ticket holders will get the chance to change the name in homage to Moses McNeil, one of the club’s founding fathers, or legendary winger (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) Davie Cooper.
After the meeting Green released a statement which read: “I had a very constructive meeting with the Rangers Fans’ Fighting Fund today and we discussed a wide range of issues.
“We are united in recognising that a successful outcome to the CVA proposal is extremely important for the club, our fans and many businesses who have dealings with Rangers. Approval of the CVA would give everyone a huge boost of confidence.
“I provided the fans with further details of my consortium’s vision for the future of Rangers.
“Understandably, supporters (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) are wary, given the recent past at Ibrox, but I will continue to have dialogue with the fans and inform them every step of the way. We will be taking Rangers forward to better days and one idea I put forward today is my plan to rename Murray Park.
“Following discussions with the supporters, we will be asking season-ticket holders to vote on whether to rename Murray Park, either the Moses McNeil Academy or the Davie Cooper Academy. We will be asking supporters to vote when they renew their season-tickets.
“We also discussed the situation with the SFA player (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) embargo and I made it clear that the club’s position remains that we want to see a satisfactory outcome. We hope that in trying to achieve this there is general recognition this has become a difficult and complex issue for everyone.”
An RFFF spokesman said: “We had a constructive meeting today. Mr Green is fully aware of the issues we are concerned with but we made good progress in discussions. The main thing is getting the CVA approved. Once that happens fans will see that as a major milestone. There will be other milestones and if they are passed successfully it will be beneficial for the club and the fans.”
Meanwhile, Rangers have confirmed they will again travel to Germany for their pre-season tour this summer. Ally McCoist’s men will play threegames (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#), against Eintracht Braunschweig (20 July), Armenia Bielefeld (25 July) and an as yet un-named opponent (22 or 23 July).



Pre-season tour!:faf::faf:

[grunt]

Can you cut and paste the article please Grunt?


Representatives of the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund met the leader of the group attempting to buy the club. Both parties released statements that described it as a "constructive meeting", but presented little detail, and the RFFF fell short of offering Green resounding support.
They went into the get-together seeking confirmation that his consortium has the money available to fund the £8.5m loan purchase, at 8% interest, which is dependent on achieving a Company Voluntary Arrangement with creditors, and more detail on the identities of the investors. They were prepared to advise supporters to buy season tickets if the information was forthcoming and positive, but fell short of that backing.
However, the two sides did emphasise the need to recognise "that a successful outcome to the CVA proposal is extremely important for the club".

Herald Sport understands that Green may have finally drawn the funds together through the backing of an investor in Manchester, and he suggested to the RFFF that £10m has been raised. Green was also bullishly confident about the CVA vote, which will be held next Thursday, despite financial sources consistently questioning this analysis.

Herald Sport also understands Green's consortium is prepared to consider all options to protect their investment – with potential SFA and Scottish Premier League sanctions ahead – including sale and leaseback of Ibrox and Murray Park, and renaming the stadium through a sponsorship deal.

RFFF members released only a short statement after the meeting. "Mr Green is fully aware of the issues we are concerned with, but we made good progress in discussions," the statement read. "The main thing is getting the CVA approved. Once that happens, fans will see that as a major milestone. There will be other milestones and if they are passed successfully, it will be beneficial for the club and the fans."
Green also revealed that he had raised the proposition of renaming Murray Park, with season-ticket holders to be given the chance to vote for it to be named after Moses McNeill, one of the founders of the club, or Davie Cooper, the former Ibrox winger. The immediate response among the wider supporter base last night, though, was to consider this little more than an ill-advised publicity stunt aimed at winning their approval.

"I provided the fans with further details of my consortium's vision for the future of Rangers," Green explained. "Understandably, supporters are wary given the recent past at Ibrox, but I will continue to have dialogue with the fans and inform them every step of the way.
"We will be taking Rangers forward to better days and one idea I put forward is my plan to rename Murray Park . . . We will be asking supporters to vote when they renew their season tickets.

"We also discussed the situation with the SFA player [registration] embargo and I made it clear that the club's position remains that we want to see a satisfactory outcome. We hope that in trying to achieve this there is general recognition [that] this has become a difficult and complex issue for everyone."

[itchy07]

I would assume all flights, meals, accomodation and coach transfers for this pre season tour will be paid in cash and up front?:confused:

[Just_Jimmy]

Ironic that the man the huns are pinning all hopes on is a Mr Green.

[Andy74]

Can you cut and paste the article please Grunt?

I don't have access to it.


Edit:

It's probably the same p15h as this;

RANGERS supporters will be given the chance to rename the Murray Park training ground, according to Charles Green, who leads consortium trying to buy the ailing Glasgow (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) club.
Green met yesterday with the Rangers Fans’ Fighting Fund and he described the meeting as “constructive”.
One of the issues raised was the Rangers training complex at Auchenhowie, opened in July 2001 and named after Sir David Murray, the club’s then owner who has come under fire after selling to Craig Whyte last year.
If Green can bring the club out of administraton through a Company Voluntary Agreement, season-ticket holders will get the chance to change the name in homage to Moses McNeil, one of the club’s founding fathers, or legendary winger (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) Davie Cooper.
After the meeting Green released a statement which read: “I had a very constructive meeting with the Rangers Fans’ Fighting Fund today and we discussed a wide range of issues.
“We are united in recognising that a successful outcome to the CVA proposal is extremely important for the club, our fans and many businesses who have dealings with Rangers. Approval of the CVA would give everyone a huge boost of confidence.
“I provided the fans with further details of my consortium’s vision for the future of Rangers.
“Understandably, supporters (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) are wary, given the recent past at Ibrox, but I will continue to have dialogue with the fans and inform them every step of the way. We will be taking Rangers forward to better days and one idea I put forward today is my plan to rename Murray Park.
“Following discussions with the supporters, we will be asking season-ticket holders to vote on whether to rename Murray Park, either the Moses McNeil Academy or the Davie Cooper Academy. We will be asking supporters to vote when they renew their season-tickets.
“We also discussed the situation with the SFA player (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#) embargo and I made it clear that the club’s position remains that we want to see a satisfactory outcome. We hope that in trying to achieve this there is general recognition this has become a difficult and complex issue for everyone.”
An RFFF spokesman said: “We had a constructive meeting today. Mr Green is fully aware of the issues we are concerned with but we made good progress in discussions. The main thing is getting the CVA approved. Once that happens fans will see that as a major milestone. There will be other milestones and if they are passed successfully it will be beneficial for the club and the fans.”
Meanwhile, Rangers have confirmed they will again travel to Germany for their pre-season tour this summer. Ally McCoist’s men will play threegames (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-charles-green-reveals-plan-to-rename-murray-park-1-2340877#), against Eintracht Braunschweig (20 July), Armenia Bielefeld (25 July) and an as yet un-named opponent (22 or 23 July).



Pre-season tour!:faf::faf:

So how does a company that owes so many people cash justify a trip to Germany? Plenty teams they can play here.

[grunt]

I would assume all flights, meals, accomodation and coach transfers for this pre season tour will be paid in cash and up front?:confused:Specially since the bill for the last pre-season trip is still sitting in the creditors list in the CVA.

[Stevie Reid]

So how does a company that owes so many people cash justify a trip to Germany? Plenty teams they can play here.


Specially since the bill for the last pre-season trip is still sitting in the creditors list in the CVA.

Sums up the whole situation - they continue to act in such a fashion despite the whole situation being the most transparent shafting of creditors that anyone could ever, ever see. Disgusting

[CropleyWasGod]

Sums up the whole situation - they continue to act in such a fashion despite the whole situation being the most transparent shafting of creditors that anyone could ever, ever see. Disgusting

I have to say more fool those who continue to do business with them. Commercial naivete on their part.

[GreenCastle]

So how does a company that owes so many people cash justify a trip to Germany? Plenty teams they can play here.

Not quite sure how they can justify going to Germany :confused:

I also noticed they were have ripped up the Ibrox pitch and putting a new pitch down one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/)

That's not a cheap job - who is paying for that and how ? :confused:

[Kato]

I also noticed they were have ripped up the Ibrox pitch and putting a new pitch down one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/)

That's not a cheap job - who is paying for that and how ? :confused:


The Queen, I mean The Taxpayer (via The Queen).

[Stevie Reid]

I have to say more fool those who continue to do business with them. Commercial naivete on their part.

Can't argue with that.

Why would companies still do so? Same as with Hearts, where is the logic?

[blackpoolhibs]

Not quite sure how they can justify going to Germany :confused:

I also noticed they were have ripped up the Ibrox pitch and putting a new pitch down one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57511216@N04/7274493536/in/photostream/)

That's not a cheap job - who is paying for that and how ? :confused:

Who would be daft enough to take the work on without being paid in full beforehand? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Who would be daft enough to take the work on without being paid in full beforehand? :confused:

Agreed.

I can't blame McCoist either here. He has his job to do, and he's getting on with it. If folk are daft enough to accommodate him, it's not his fault.

[Newry Hibs]

Wouldn't something like laying a pitch be authorised by the admins who are running the club? Is this acting in the best interest of the creditors?

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't something like laying a pitch be authorised by the admins who are running the club? Is this acting in the best interest of the creditors?

Yup, if it increases the selling value of the property.... :devil:

[joe breezy]

Yup, if it increases the selling value of the property.... :devil:

Didn't know a car park or a Tesco would need lush new grass :confused:

[At The Edge]

I could be wrong on this but i`m sure I read that the Rangers fighting fund have paid for the new pitch?

[joe breezy]

got this image from kerrydale street but it can also be found in amongst this document...

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Judicial%20Panel%20Protocol.pdf

it's clear that Rangers were found guilty of a maximum rule break but the SFA tried to let them off lightly by applying discretion

"The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 66 and imposed the maximum fine of £100,000 payable within 12 months. In addition, the Tribunal imposed a prohibition in terms of Article 94.1 and 95 of the Articles of Association, prohibiting Rangers FC for a period of 12 months from the date of determination from seeking registration with the Scottish FA of any player not currently with the club, excluding any player under the age of 18 years."

so it has to be a termination of membership going by these rules

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr30/JarvisKDS/7-6-1212-19-54.png

schoolboy error by der hun, have to assume that they didn't get any legal advice whatsoever on their stupid course of action...

[grunt]

How the ordinary tax evader is treated


However, Sheriff Kenneth Robb said he did not agree that nobody had been harmed by the offence. He said that in an age of financial constraints, £635,000 was a lot of money which could have helped the public purse. He told Maxwell: "You have enjoyed the fruits of your labour and the tax that you should have paid. "The tree may be bare, but you used the fruits over many years."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-18352528#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[cabbageandribs1875]

How the ordinary tax evader is treated[

QUOTE=BBC News]However, Sheriff Kenneth Robb said he did not agree that nobody had been harmed by the offence.
He said that in an age of financial constraints, £635,000 was a lot of money which could have helped the public purse.
He told Maxwell: "You have enjoyed the fruits of your labour and the tax that you should have paid.
"The tree may be bare, but you used the fruits over many years."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-18352528#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/QUOTE]


i've just finished reading that article as well :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Can anyone explain to me why the SFA and FIFA aren't punishing Rangers for taking action to civil courts?:confused: Surely now the SFA are inviting open season for future court actions and FIFA can probably expect an angry phone call from Sion.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/105080-scottish-fa-will-not-take-action-against-rangers-for-going-to-court/

[VickMackie]

got this image from kerrydale street but it can also be found in amongst this document...

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Judicial%20Panel%20Protocol.pdf

it's clear that Rangers were found guilty of a maximum rule break but the SFA tried to let them off lightly by applying discretion

"The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 66 and imposed the maximum fine of £100,000 payable within 12 months. In addition, the Tribunal imposed a prohibition in terms of Article 94.1 and 95 of the Articles of Association, prohibiting Rangers FC for a period of 12 months from the date of determination from seeking registration with the Scottish FA of any player not currently with the club, excluding any player under the age of 18 years."

so it has to be a termination of membership going by there rules

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr30/JarvisKDS/7-6-1212-19-54.png

schoolboy error by der hun, have to assume that they didn't get any legal advise whatsoever on their stupid course of action...

So by definition they already fall into the maximum penalty category. This leads me to believe that the only option is to stick with a 100,000 pound fine or add on suspension.

I guess that'll be just a fine then. 14 million and all they'll pay is 100 grand.

C'mon Hibs, let's give players vastly inflated contracts and use the tax and NI. That'll still save us money and let us put up a better challenge.

[VickMackie]

Can anyone explain to me why the SFA and FIFA aren't punishing Rangers for taking action to civil courts?:confused: Surely now the SFA are inviting open season for future court actions and FIFA can probably expect an angry phone call from Sion.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/105080-scottish-fa-will-not-take-action-against-rangers-for-going-to-court/

Is there a distinction here though?

If the Swiss FA followed all the correct procedures but Sion went to court then they were fair game. Is that what happened?

It seems like an error has been made by the SFA which means they'd be stupid to ignore the decision or risk possible further intervention from the courts, not just here but throughout football.

[JeMeSouviens]

Can anyone explain to me why the SFA and FIFA aren't punishing Rangers for taking action to civil courts?:confused: Surely now the SFA are inviting open season for future court actions and FIFA can probably expect an angry phone call from Sion.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/105080-scottish-fa-will-not-take-action-against-rangers-for-going-to-court/

Sion weren't separately punished for going to court. They received a 3pt deduction from the Swiss FA for every game they played the embargoed players in and were expelled from the Europa League by UEFA for using those players against Celtic.

[GreenCastle]

I could be wrong on this but i`m sure I read that the Rangers fighting fund have paid for the new pitch?

Looks like it was the fighting fund who helped pay for it...

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2786206

[Gus Fring]

http://www.hibs.net/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADQAAAA0CAYAAAD FeBvrAAATsUlEQVRogd2aa4xd13Xff3vv87jvufMkZ8gZPiRKl ChKFWVZpsiUkqPGcixINYxEaZPAcgzkQ9K4cBqgaL8UQYO0qF0 oaIEEhYvEaQM4aGJZcazaomhKlu1IIvWwJOtJSqQovmY4w3ncu Y/z2Hv1w773zoukVbRAH5s4POeec+/e+7/Xf639X+uMEhH+f2r6//QE/ne3YPWHV1/68cFNo0N/WC0X7tBGlVY/cyKEQUAnywjDECcOQYjCiCxP0DrHiRCEEZIbCoUSjaVltAoJgg DnHEo5AHJJKRZCMtv2n3OLSqFYKNNOOqCgUCiQJikKg7CRRVlu W8vNzssXLl76F3fcdc+PevdVj3KvvvTjg9dvH/ueMVEZpXqP0f1rsOII4pg8z7DWopUmDEOEHBCUgbSTE0UlknZC pVoDXYA8hSAC7bo95WSdJrlNMaFCK41kDskEZTxpkk5CXIgRp3 Dr3ELw/TjnyLOsefLU+ft7oPqAZi+++3ylFN6lCFFKdTEpeuC01tjc4jR keUa1XCXNU5JOQhiEBHGItYIxAUEYQ+5oNFscPfIMJ989wbnzF 6gP1dhz8x5uu20PO67bgeDI8wycJTSKTruDMZowikg7KUEYYW3 eW1pYZSkR6QITGsvpC2NbbvjEGkDJ4geJNjrybqVA+5VSXUDOO qIoJLE5zjqCIMBaizGG0MSkuSUKC3SSDt/5zhM8/fQzHPnek7z7wTkADGC757HhMn/4b7/CI498HgJD2mlgDBiELM38ZEUhCFrpPoBVaFZsJQ4RSUv1bfEaQ 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BBCAlLamont
Rangers Fans Fighting Fund says Charles Green's promised he won't sell or mortgage Ibrox or Murray Park (or other property assets).
07/06/2012 13:09 (https://twitter.com/bbcallamont/status/210704977264508928)




Surely it hasn't got anything to with Charles Green at this stage as a) He doesn't actually own the club yet, b) its the administrators decision if they feel it would benefit the creditors and then c) the liquidators could also decide to do this?

[Lungo--Drom]

Just spewed my breakfast up after looking at that photo :@


:greengrin

[Lungo--Drom]

It's like I said a few weeks ago. Unless you can't help yourself coz you're a dyed in the wool Hun, then everyone should boycott RFC on all levels, including commercially and football wise. In other words ignore them and have nothing to do with them. Don't sell goods or services to them and don't attend any matches that they play in. Their blue tinted world would maybe implode sooner if that happened.


I have to say more fool those who continue to do business with them. Commercial naivete on their part.

[Spike Mandela]

Is there a distinction here though?

If the Swiss FA followed all the correct procedures but Sion went to court then they were fair game. Is that what happened?

It seems like an error has been made by the SFA which means they'd be stupid to ignore the decision or risk possible further intervention from the courts, not just here but throughout football.

The SFA haven't necessarily made an error though Vick. A QC and a high court judge have disagreed with another high court judge. The SFA chose not to appeal the decision but may very well have won an appeal. They seem to have acquiesced to Rangers rather quickly imo.

[Caversham Green]

Yup, if it increases the selling value of the property.... :devil:

But a price has already been agreed and contracted :na na:.

[jgl07]

The SFA haven't necessarily made an error though Vick. A QC and a high court judge have disagreed with another high court judge. The SFA chose not to appeal the decision but may very well have won an appeal. They seem to have acquiesced to Rangers rather quickly imo.

The SFA could not have gone to appeal without getting themselves in trouble with FIFA. I suspect that unless Rangers are given a harsher penalty that they will be hauled up by FIFA.

We will have to wait and see what the panel hands out. If Rangers challenge this in the courts then there really will be blood on the carpet.

[cad]

Somethings be bothering me for a while now and I need to get it off my chest in this Rangers fiasco , theres always a single point in cases that stick out things that went against the grain things that the SFA , FIFA , Uefa and the police should have done something about , yet didnt ,
they seem to have let it slide for whatever reason

I`ll tell you whats pee`d me of big time is McCoists name the panel stint and the afters these elected people had to put up with ,plus the singing of the songs whens that all getting looked into, never heard a peep about it ,brushed under the carpet forgotten about,if something you said resulted in threats of violence ,possible arson attacks ,and threats to your family surely some form of accountability would be laid at your door ,the police even had to issue warnings ,so wheres the follow up whens the tap tap tap on Allys door going to happen ,would it have taken a victim or a fire to get things moving Im just asking likes I see this as a gross dereliction of duty by the bodies Ive mentioned and they themselves should be investigated for those very reasons

I think the notch just got raised by a tweet today I took this of my other form of entertainment Rangers Media and in this case they definitely have a point, tell me what you think is it a storm in a tea cup or more sinister Ive always believed ones as bad as the other nothing between them but the fact people can even consider putting that up for public viewing beggars belief .

http://i.imgur.com/UOOaz.jpg

[Andy74]

The SFA haven't necessarily made an error though Vick. A QC and a high court judge have disagreed with another high court judge. The SFA chose not to appeal the decision but may very well have won an appeal. They seem to have acquiesced to Rangers rather quickly imo.

I think they had to, they couldn't argue in future against clubs going to the courts if they were to use it themselves to appeal.

I can't see any other way than the SFA committee going up the way with the punishments and Rangers will certainly risk FIFA action if they chose to take that, which is within the remit of the SFA committee, to further court action. That would really be challenging a valid football judgement.

If the Committee go down the way then the game is up as far as who runs Scottish football.

[greenginger]

Did Regan not say that if Rangers accept the original signing ban that would be an end of it.

Rangers would be crazy not to take this way out, but we can but hope their arrogance prevails over common sense.

[Spike Mandela]

I have a funny feeling that all that will happen in the event of suspension is the CVA will fail and newco will form and circumvent any suspension by leaving the punishment with the oldco. Then it will be up to the SPL lapdogs to re admit the cheats.

[lapsedhibee]

I`ll tell you whats pee`d me of big time is McCoists name the panel stint and the afters these elected people had to put up with ,plus the singing of the songs whens that all getting looked into, never heard a peep about it ,brushed under the carpet forgotten about,if something you said resulted in threats of violence ,possible arson attacks ,and threats to your family surely some form of accountability would be laid at your door ,the police even had to issue warnings ,so wheres the follow up whens the tap tap tap on Allys door going to happen ,would it have taken a victim or a fire to get things moving Im just asking likes I see this as a gross dereliction of duty by the bodies Ive mentioned and they themselves should be investigated for those very reasons

:agree: Surprising too that Traynoryoungdodds haven't been using their combined journalistic muscle to get to the bottom of this inaction. :fibber:

[CropleyWasGod]

But a price has already been agreed and contracted :na na:.

I was looking beyond the Green situation to liquidation. :agree:

[grunt]

D&P release results of creditors meeting and revision to their initial proposals - wonder what changed?

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/99/b4/0,,5~177305,00.pdf

[Newry Hibs]

I have a funny feeling that all that will happen in the event of suspension is the CVA will fail and newco will form and circumvent any suspension by leaving the punishment with the oldco. Then it will be up to the SPL lapdogs to re admit the cheats.

Just thinking out loud a bit here, but this voting in the newco, is it a possibility becasue they will get the oldco licence? If so why should the cheating oldco still hold the licence (other than they arra peepul)? Surely the oldco need to have this stripped from them?

If it doesn't depend on the licence, then are the SPL voting in any old company that just happens to be formed and have Rangers in the name?

[CropleyWasGod]

D&P release results of creditors meeting and revision to their initial proposals - wonder what changed?

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/99/b4/0,,5~177305,00.pdf

Was the bit about HMRC getting their way with the appointment of the liquidators in the original?

[Caversham Green]

I was looking beyond the Green situation to liquidation. :agree:

Liquidation isn't on the table though. The options are CVA or Newco buying all the assets for £5.5m - unless the point I made way back in post #10288 is accurate.

[green glory]

Was the bit about HMRC getting their way with the appointment of the liquidators in the original?

Hmm I don't think so, but I do remember BDO being talked about as liquidators a while ago.

Wednesday/Thursday next week will be joyous if the CVA is rejected. Hopefully with the SFA kicking them when they're down with a suspension or expulsion.

[CropleyWasGod]

Liquidation isn't on the table though. The options are CVA or Newco buying all the assets for £5.5m - unless the point I made way back in post #10288 is accurate.

Was that about the properties not being sold on? (sorry, CBA reading back)

[johnbc70]

Lots of thing being swept under the carpet. I have asked the SPL 3 times now for details of their investigation into alleged sectarian signing at the Rangers v Kilmarnock game on the 18th February. It was mentioned in the SPL delegate's match report yet more than 3 months on we have seen nothing. All my requests have been polite and courteous yet not even had an acknowledgment from the SPL. I don't see how the current issues at Ibrox can stop them investigating this and issuing a response to what were serious allegations.

[HFC 0-7]

Is there any way that that the creditors can all get together and ask for th admins to be removed and different ones installed?

[grunt]

These two clauses are new:

17.1.9 - acceptance of Joint Admin's proposals does not imply acceptance of Voluntary Arrangements
17.1.10 - admins to report to creditors on CVA no later than 3 months from creditors meeting (I guess this means by 5 July)

These clauses have changed:

17.1.11 - appointment of liquidators - in the original proposal, D&P suggested they would act as liquidators. In the revised and agreed version, BDO will be liquidators.

17.1.12 - now includes right of creditors to challenge D&P fees.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there any way that that the creditors can all get together and ask for th admins to be removed and different ones installed?

If a majority thought that the admins weren't doing their job properly, they could apply to the Courts.

[Caversham Green]

Was that about the properties not being sold on? (sorry, CBA reading back)

That's right - in the Estimated Outcome Statement the £5.3m purchase price is marked against player contracts and IPR/goodwill only. Freehold property is marked N/A. I did come to the conclusion that it was just badly drafted, but it's a big error given their keenness to stick to the letter of the law.

[grunt]

Liquidation isn't on the table though. The options are CVA or Newco buying all the assets for £5.5m - unless the point I made way back in post #10288 is accurate.Sure, but NewCo means liquidation of OldCo, no?

[Caversham Green]

Sure, but NewCo means liquidation of OldCo, no?

It does, but within the context of my debate with CWG my point was that the value of Ibrox isn't enhanced by the relaying of the pitch because the liquidation sale price has already been established.

[JeMeSouviens]

Liquidation isn't on the table though. The options are CVA or Newco buying all the assets for £5.5m - unless the point I made way back in post #10288 is accurate.

Suggestions on the RTC blog have been made that the asset purchase deal is only irrevocable in one direction, ie. the admins have a fallback position that Green will buy if they can't get more any other way.

[Just Alf]

Just thinking out loud a bit here, but this voting in the newco, is it a possibility becasue they will get the oldco licence? If so why should the cheating oldco still hold the licence (other than they arra peepul)? Surely the oldco need to have this stripped from them?

If it doesn't depend on the licence, then are the SPL voting in any old company that just happens to be formed and have Rangers in the name?

Absolutley spot on argument :top marks .... would be very keen to see the "powers that be" respond to that question.

[CropleyWasGod]

Suggestions on the RTC blog have been made that the asset purchase deal is only irrevocable in one direction, ie. the admins have a fallback position that Green will buy if they can't get more any other way.

"any other way" INCLUDING liquidation?

[grunt]

It does, but within the context of my debate with CWG my point was that the value of Ibrox isn't enhanced by the relaying of the pitch because the liquidation sale price has already been established.Ah right, sorry, see what you mean. Another example of expenditure which diminishes creditor pot (if Rangers (IA) paid for it) but does not enhance creditor value. I hope that the sale of assets to Green is capable of challenge.

[Caversham Green]

Suggestions on the RTC blog have been made that the asset purchase deal is only irrevocable in one direction, ie. the admins have a fallback position that Green will buy if they can't get more any other way.

I think that's probably right, but the discussion was about the cost of relaying the pitch at Ibrox. My point is that the administrators had no reason to incur that cost because as far as they are concerned only CVA or Newco is going to happen and relaying the pitch doesn't improve the outcome for creditors in either option.

It looks like the debate has been superseded anyway if the RFFF have financed it.

[JeMeSouviens]

These two clauses are new:

17.1.9 - acceptance of Joint Admin's proposals does not imply acceptance of Voluntary Arrangements


This is interesting in that it backs up the position of one regular RTC poster who has been banging the drum that the "CVA" is not really a CVA but merely a "Proposal to hold a CVA". So creditors would have to accept the proposal and then we'd go back to D&P for an actual CVA and another vote (and yet another delay).

[johnbc70]

Lots of thing being swept under the carpet. I have asked the SPL 3 times now for details of their investigation into alleged sectarian signing at the Rangers v Kilmarnock game on the 18th February. It was mentioned in the SPL delegate's match report yet more than 3 months on we have seen nothing. All my requests have been polite and courteous yet not even had an acknowledgment from the SPL. I don't see how the current issues at Ibrox can stop them investigating this and issuing a response to what were serious allegations.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think that's probably right, but the discussion was about the cost of relaying the pitch at Ibrox. My point is that the administrators had no reason to incur that cost because as far as they are concerned only CVA or Newco is going to happen and relaying the pitch doesn't improve the outcome for creditors in either option.

It looks like the debate has been superseded anyway if the RFFF have financed it.

Gotcha. :aok:

[grunt]

This is interesting in that it backs up the position of one regular RTC poster who has been banging the drum that the "CVA" is not really a CVA but merely a "Proposal to hold a CVA". So creditors would have to accept the proposal and then we'd go back to D&P for an actual CVA and another vote (and yet another delay).My post was a shortened version of the paragraph. In full it says:


17.1.9 Any proposed Voluntary Arrangement or Scheme of Arrangement will be considered on its merits by HMRC Voluntary Arrangements Service. Acceptance of the Joint Administrator's proposals by HMRC does not therefore imply acceptance of any Voluntary Arrangement proposals that may be put forward as a consequence.

Damned if I know what it means...

[Monts]

My post was a shortened version of the paragraph. In full it says:


Damned if I know what it means...

Having no financial knowledge, this could be complete bolox, but it reads to me like they have issued a proposal for the creditors to get together to decide on the outcome as a group rather than as individual entities. Then they are saying that agreeing to answer as one does not mean they are agreeing to the cva.

[JeMeSouviens]

HMRC's nominated liquidator:

http://www.bdo.uk.com/find-a-partner/malcolm-cohen

"Malcolm leads the firms’ Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud."

:cb

[GreenCastle]

Lots of thing being swept under the carpet. I have asked the SPL 3 times now for details of their investigation into alleged sectarian signing at the Rangers v Kilmarnock game on the 18th February. It was mentioned in the SPL delegate's match report yet more than 3 months on we have seen nothing. All my requests have been polite and courteous yet not even had an acknowledgment from the SPL. I don't see how the current issues at Ibrox can stop them investigating this and issuing a response to what were serious allegations.

Was thinking about this the other day - nothing heard about it - seems like it was swept under the carpet.

With the recent Celtic park incident with Rangers fans smashing up the toilets - action was taken as several hundred complaints were made to the police at the time so they had to investigate it.

Seems that nothing will be done about the fans singing as no complaints made.

[Gus Fring]

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BBCAlLamont
Dave King calls for Rangers fans to oppose Charles Green's CVA,Dave King also says he's making a claim against club for the full amount of his investment, based on "deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. "I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes."




Several Tweets put together there for easiness

[JeMeSouviens]

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BBCAlLamont
Dave King calls for Rangers fans to oppose Charles Green's CVA,Dave King also says he's making a claim against club for the full amount of his investment, based on "deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. "I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes."




Several Tweets put together there for easiness

Or see here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

[JeMeSouviens]

Seems that nothing will be done about the fans singing as no complaints made.

It was mentioned in the SPL match delegate's report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17130755

Still think the SFA have handled things ok so far: SPL an absolute joke. :rolleyes:

[Bishop Hibee]

"I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same," - Dave King.

Don't worry Davie boy, this "loyal" HIbs fan and tax payer opposes the CVA 100% :greengrin

[stokesmessiah]

WTF????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

[grunt]

In this report he has (or says he will) issued a £20m claim against the Club!

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/105215-rangers-director-dave-king-lodges-20m-creditors-claim-against-club/

[jgl07]

In this report he has (or says he will) issued a £20m claim against the Club!

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/105215-rangers-director-dave-king-lodges-20m-creditors-claim-against-club/

What are the implications of this claim for a CVA?

One for CG or CWG I suspect?

[JeMeSouviens]

WTF????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

First shot in the Barren Knights vs Green Brigade battle for the (rotten) soul of ra Gers! :rolleyes:

[Gus Fring]

Is Dave King still active at Rangers? Or was he one of those that left after Whyte took over? If he is still actuve its very interesting that he would feel compelled to make these comments rather than just keeping schtum

[CallumLaidlaw]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

[Spike Mandela]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

I suspect there will be claim and counter claim, court case after court case and appeal after appeal for years to come in this sorry mess.

[lapsedhibee]

I suspect there will be claim and counter claim, court case after court case and appeal after appeal for years to come in this sorry mess.

Happy mess?

[JeMeSouviens]

Catchy title. :greengrin



NO GREEN AND WHYTE AT IBROX

I have continued to observe the lack of progress in the attempts to resolve the crisis at Ibrox. I hoped that a “supportable” proposal would emerge from an individual or grouping that would meet the needs of the club. I see those needs comprising of four main components;
1. Any offer should demonstrate the capacity to not only acquire the club but to invest in the club going forward.
2. Any offer should be supported by the requisite business skills to ensure that the recent crisis is not repeated.
3. Any offer should recognise that the club cannot be run on purely business principles. The club has a “soul”, a history, and a tradition going back 140 years. Our children and grandchildren are entitled to the same legacy that our father’s and grandfather’s bequeathed to us.
4. Any offer should recognise that the fans are key stakeholders in the club, whether they are shareholders or not.

In my view the CVA proposal that is being put forward for consideration by Duff & Phelps fails to demonstrate compliance with any of the above criteria. I accept the possibility that Duff and Phelps may know more than is contained in the CVA proposal, but if that is the case, why the lack of transparency? Duff & Phelps have earned enormous sums as administrators and have had sufficient time to ensure that full disclosure is made with any offer.

One practical difficulty that Duff and Phelps has is that their prime responsibility is to those stakeholders that have a legal claim on the company. This excludes the many fans who are important stakeholders but not shareholders. This leads me to some specific concerns about the CVA proposal;
1. It is clear from the CVA proposal that Mr Green intends to repeat Mr Whyte’s strategy of using season ticket sales to fund the club. This would put fans back in the position of funding the club without owning it.
2. I made it clear to Duff and Phelps that I regard the Whyte acquisition of the shares from the Murray Group as being fraudulent and that myself and every other minority shareholder (all fan shareholders) have been prejudiced by this. The CVA gives no recognition to this difficulty and to what reparation will be made to those shareholders who have been abused by the terms of the sale to Mr Whyte.
3. I also advised Duff & Phelps that I was making a claim against the club for the full amount of my investment based on the deliberate non-disclosure by David Murray of transactions that he had committed to on behalf of the club that were both risky and to the sole advantage of the Murray Group. I have made that claim but Duff & Phelps have at this stage ignored my representations.
4. If it becomes necessary for me to prove my claim I intend to enlist the support of the other fans, like me, who are shareholders in order to ensure that we are all considered and represented. I further advised Duff & Phelps that any proceeds received in respect of my claim will be reinvested, in full, back into the club. I am sure that all other aggrieved investors (that are fans) will do likewise. This will ensure that a substantial portion of the funds used to acquire the club will still be available to invest in its future.
5. Mr Whyte gave me first right of refusal on his shares on the 29th September 2011. Andrew Ellis subsequently advised me that Mr Whyte had personally advised him about my first right of refusal but that Mr Ellis had a prior right to 24,9% of the shareholding from Mr Whyte. Based on my own history of dealings with Mr Whyte I have no reason to doubt Mr Ellis’s version. Either way, Mr Green cannot acquire the shares.

It is not my intention, and I know Mr Ellis feels the same, to get in the way of a properly structured and a properly funded transaction that meets the needs of all stakeholders, including the fans.

In my view, based on previous discussions with Mr Whyte, it is unlikely in the extreme that he would sell “his” shares to Mr Green for a nominal sum (even if he hadn’t committed them to me) unless he was obtaining some benefit or retaining some control behind the scenes. Duff & Phelps non-communicative approach to stakeholders causes me further concern in that regard.

I am opposing the CVA and urge all loyal fans to do the same. We don’t want to be back in a similar situation next season. I also believe that all true Rangers fans should not buy any season tickets until full and frank disclosure has been provided by Duff & Phelps, Mr Green, and Mr Whyte, as to what is truly going on behind the scenes.

Dave King
Johannesburg
7th June 2012

[HFC 0-7]

If a majority thought that the admins weren't doing their job properly, they could apply to the Courts.

Cheers, next question. Charles greene says if a CVA fails he will go newco route and transfer assets - can he do this? Can HMRC appoint liquidators to put the assets on open market to see how much they could get?

Also, can Charles do anything at the moment, I dont think he is the owner and therefore cant say that he will move assets etc.

[Seveno]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

He was going to sue the BBC and that died a death.

[JeMeSouviens]

Cheers, next question. Charles greene says if a CVA fails he will go newco route and transfer assets - can he do this? Can HMRC appoint liquidators to put the assets on open market to see how much they could get?

Also, can Charles do anything at the moment, I dont think he is the owner and therefore cant say that he will move assets etc.

CG can't transfer assets, he can offer to purchase them from RFC and the admins can accept his offer but if they don't get full market value they would be open to legal challenge.

If the CVA proposal fails then the company stays in admin. If/when the money runs out they will be put into liquidation and it looks like HMRC's nominated liquidator, BDO, will be doing the job. The current administrators, D&P, asked the creditors to approve them as liquidators (if it comes to that) but looks like they failed.

[joe breezy]

BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

I'm sure ages ago someone here reported that an all staff email had gone round BDO asking if anyone had a conflict of interest??

[grunt]

BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

They haven't been appointed - liquidation hasn't happened yet. They have been nominated as potential liquidators, if the CVA doesn't work and if it is decided that the company should be liquidated.

[Golden Bear]

BDO have been appointed as the liquidators and are on standby according to posts on Kerrydale Street

I'm sure ages ago someone here reported that an all staff email had gone round BDO asking if anyone had a conflict of interest??

The British Darts Organisation?

Why not - everyone else has had their fingers in the pie!

:wink:

[iwasthere1972]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!

No doubt will be paid by us tax payers sometime in the next 10 years or so if even at all.

This story has more legs than a family of centipedes and the sooner Rangers are brought to account the better. I can't be bothered reading all the posts on this thread as I am fed up with it all. Rangers FC = bunch of :cb

That's all.

[snooky]

He was going to sue the BBC and that died a death.

Was CW the inspiration for Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named 'Sue' " ? :hmmm:

[grunt]

Just in. Craig whyte to take legal action against the SFA for defamation!! Hilarious!!Where did you see this?

[iwasthere1972]

Where did you see this?

It was on SSN.

[Caversham Green]

The British Darts Organisation?

Why not - everyone else has had their fingers in the pie!

:wink:

Wee Arra People? :kdarts:

[Seveno]

I can't post a link at present but go to scotslawthoughts for the latest bombshell. It explains why D&P were initially so bullish about a quich CVA.