Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread [Archive] - Page 10

EuanH78

05-03-2012, 07:59 PM

These administrators are pish, IMHO!

Surely they should look at what players (as in numbers) are needed as a minimum to put a team out - the team doesn't have to be good enough to finish first or second or even third, just literally enough players to fulfill their fixtures. It's same old Rangers, wanting the best without any real right to it.

Sally McCoist should just be getting told, here's your squad, most of them are young laddies but to be honest we've a whole load of other folk owed our money so we can't sustain your international players' wages. Sorry about that.

It's a joke, IMHO.

And another thing - the SPL will absolutely ruin Scottish football if they don't take the heaviest sanctions possible and punt them from the league for the dual-contract stuff if it's proven that they're guilty of it. Anything else just makes an absolute mockery of the integrity of the league. Strip them of their titles and cups for good measure as well, why the hell should the rest of Scottish football have to make cuts while those bas****s cheated their way to title after title. They've got a massively higher income than the rest of us as it is, and they STILL cheated.

Empty the lot of them from the league.

**** Rangers.

Well said Matty, lets hope they go the way of Third Lanark and just cease to exist altogether.

greenginger

05-03-2012, 08:12 PM

Yeah, I hope all this sympathy stuff coming from our SPL reps outside Hamden today was just for the cameras.

St Mirren, Killie, and Dunfermline reps all expressing sympathy at Rangers plight yet these are 3 clubs which suffer most when their local support get seduced into the ever expanding army of Old Firm glory hunters.

Hibercelona

05-03-2012, 08:40 PM

These administrators are pish, IMHO!

Surely they should look at what players (as in numbers) are needed as a minimum to put a team out - the team doesn't have to be good enough to finish first or second or even third, just literally enough players to fulfill their fixtures. It's same old Rangers, wanting the best without any real right to it.

Sally McCoist should just be getting told, here's your squad, most of them are young laddies but to be honest we've a whole load of other folk owed our money so we can't sustain your international players' wages. Sorry about that.

It's a joke, IMHO.

And another thing - the SPL will absolutely ruin Scottish football if they don't take the heaviest sanctions possible and punt them from the league for the dual-contract stuff if it's proven that they're guilty of it. Anything else just makes an absolute mockery of the integrity of the league. Strip them of their titles and cups for good measure as well, why the hell should the rest of Scottish football have to make cuts while those bas****s cheated their way to title after title. They've got a massively higher income than the rest of us as it is, and they STILL cheated.

Empty the lot of them from the league.

**** Rangers.

:top marks

Sad thing is, neither OF side can ever be guilty of anything in this league. The SFA will forever continue to bend the rules around them to suite their agendas. The OF more or less own the league.

If it was any non-OF side in this situation (as there has been) they'd be told where to go if they had the arrogance to hold on to their international players while failing to make debts and ends meet.

As you say, an utter joke!

ScottB

05-03-2012, 09:06 PM

Dunfermline's outstanding money has been settled in full which must be to the detriment of other creditors.

Was their claim on RFC funds sufficiently different that they could be treated as a special case, or should the window cleaner, the plumber etc feel aggrieved that D & P have acted the way they have.

Perhaps they see paying off SPL debts as the most important lest the club need to rely on the goodwill of the other teams sooner or later I wonder...

CropleyWasGod

05-03-2012, 09:14 PM

CropleyWasGod

05-03-2012, 09:22 PM

Perhaps they see paying off SPL debts as the most important lest the club need to rely on the goodwill of the other teams sooner or later I wonder...

I can see nothing in this article that justifies giving DAFC preference.

http://www.biggartbaillie.co.uk/ideas--insights/all-articles/corporate/the-a-to-z-of-administration

ScottB

05-03-2012, 09:38 PM

I can see nothing in this article that justifies giving DAFC preference.

http://www.biggartbaillie.co.uk/ideas--insights/all-articles/corporate/the-a-to-z-of-administration

I didn't mean it to be legitimate, just that that may be the thinking behind it. Why else would a small creditor manage to get paid in full?

By this stage they likely know that there is no serious bids for the club, no chance of a CVA and the Big Tax Case to come, so liquidation city. Using what cash there is to stop Dunfermline roundly voting NO against NuRangers seems like they are planning for just that. If we see moves to give cash to Dundee United and Hearts then I reckon they are definitely planning for the smoothest ride for the Phoenix Club as possible.

Which would of course not be looking out for the creditors at all...

Twa Cairpets

05-03-2012, 09:39 PM

:top marks

Sad thing is, neither OF side can ever be guilty of anything in this league. The SFA will forever continue to bend the rules around them to suite their agendas. The OF more or less own the league.

If it was any non-OF side in this situation (as there has been) they'd be told where to go if they had the arrogance to hold on to their international players while failing to make debts and ends meet.

As you say, an utter joke!

You're getting things confused in your anger, and I think you're wrong.

The time to rail against the SFA is when there is somethign to rail against, At the moment, while we're awaiting what they have to say after their investigation, to shout at them is just howling at the moon. Make a judgement when there is something to judge. The SPL is in the same position. They have done everything they can within existing laws - points deduction, transfer embargo. To take action without evidence to back it up would (rightly) leave the SFA accused of unseemly haste and more critically to leave the door open for appeal and obstruction. To take action against them before a clear picture exists of what is going on would genuinely be a joke.

As for "being allowed to hold onto international players" - thats nowt to do with the SFA or SPL - that is the administrators doing their job. Its maybe not fast enough for our liking, keen as we are for the demise of Der Hun, but lets assume they are taking their legal responsibilities seriously. They are seeking to maximise current viability, mid term income and future value of the business for potential investors and credtors. On a purely business basis, it is the right thing to do to involve employees in getting a solution - they dont have to accept any consulation, but it makes sense to do it. The fact that it didnt happen at Motherwell for example is probably more to do with the absolute value of wages. Most people could afford a 75% drop in wages of £60K a month. It's not possible if you earn £3K a month, so the only realistic solution was to bullet the players.

I have no sympathy for the Hun, and hope they are pumped out of existence, but screaming "conspiracy" is to lower yourself to the level of the Hun, the Soapdodger and the Yam.

CropleyWasGod

05-03-2012, 09:40 PM

I didn't mean it to be legitimate, just that that may be the thinking behind it. Why else would a small creditor manage to get paid in full?

By this stage they likely know that there is no serious bids for the club, no chance of a CVA and the Big Tax Case to come, so liquidation city. Using what cash there is to stop Dunfermline roundly voting NO against NuRangers seems like they are planning for just that. If we see moves to give cash to Dundee United and Hearts then I reckon they are definitely planning for the smoothest ride for the Phoenix Club as possible.

Which would of course not be looking out for the creditors at all...

.. and which would, IMO, result in other creditors applying to the Courts to have the payments returned.

The same ranking, broadly, also applies in liquidations.

Leithenhibby

05-03-2012, 10:01 PM

I can see nothing in this article that justifies giving DAFC preference.

http://www.biggartbaillie.co.uk/ideas--insights/all-articles/corporate/the-a-to-z-of-administration

That mob are playing games from where I'm sitting. Trying to get SPL sides, on side (in this case DAFC) for when it come to voting them back into the league. :rolleyes:

Dundee Utd will get their cash next, you watch :wink:

CropleyWasGod

05-03-2012, 10:02 PM

That mob are playing games from where I'm sitting. Trying to get SPL sides, on side (in this case DAFC) for when it come to voting them back into the league. :rolleyes:

Dundee Unt will get their cash next, you watch :wink:

Is nobody listening?

Leithenhibby

05-03-2012, 10:05 PM

Is nobody listening?

WHAT!! :greengrin

CropleyWasGod

05-03-2012, 10:07 PM

WHAT!! :greengrin

:na na: Illegal it is

basehibby

05-03-2012, 10:32 PM

As I invited an earlier poster.... who hasn't responded.... how would you have done things differently?

Sorry I didn't respond earlier on - been a bit busy.

For starters I wouldn't have tried to push through a transfer for a new striker on X thou a week when it was obvious redundancies would soon be necessary.

Next I would have identified any high earners who's contracts were up in the summer (ie no transfer value) and eliminated them from the wage bill asap.

Not saying their job is an easy one but from the start Duff & Phelps seem to have had an undue regard for the on field fortunes of Rangers when their first duty is towards their creditors.

Besides I'm getting bored - LET THE DISMANTLING BEGIN!!! :drool:

jgl07

05-03-2012, 10:38 PM

That mob are playing games from where I'm sitting. Trying to get SPL sides, on side (in this case DAFC) for when it come to voting them back into the league. :rolleyes:

Dundee Utd will get their cash next, you watch :wink:

Dunfermline are hardly likely to vote to admit newco Rangers. If Rangers are kicked out of the SPL Dunfermline (or Hibs) would be the most likely benificiary in keeping their own place. Especially the case considering the comments by John Yorkston today.

The Administrators are behaving like total amateurs over the whole episode.

ballengeich

05-03-2012, 10:43 PM

:na na: Illegal it is

Why would administrators make an illegal payment? Whyte may have brought them in thinking they would do their best to help him out, but they must surely be considering their own long term interests. Do you expect HMRC to challenge the payment to Dunfermline?

Leithenhibby

05-03-2012, 10:53 PM

Dunfermline are hardly likely to vote to admit newco Rangers. If Rangers are kicked out of the SPL Dunfermline (or Hibs) would be the most likely benificiary in keeping their own place. Especially the case considering the comments by John Yorkston today.

The Administrators are behaving like total amateurs over the whole episode.

I agree, my thinking behind my last comment was that they, (Huns) may just be trying to get on the good side of the other clubs. We shall see if/when Dundee Utd get their money.

And I also agree with your second point, they are not coming out of this with much credit. (for my liking)

It's just a matter of time until the, "call it" :greengrin

greenginger

05-03-2012, 10:57 PM

Why would administrators make an illegal payment? Whyte may have brought them in thinking they would do their best to help him out, but they must surely be considering their own long term interests. Do you expect HMRC to challenge the payment to Dunfermline?

They are English and so are the HMRC inspectors on Rangers case, probably don't know we have different Laws and rules up here in Jockville. :greengrin

ballengeich

05-03-2012, 11:18 PM

They are English and so are the HMRC inspectors on Rangers case, probably don't we have different Laws and rules up here in Jockville. :greengrin

I suspected that might be a possibility. It seems strange that the English football authorities can have a rule that clubs going into administration have to give priority to football debts above other liabilities. I'd have thought that England would have laws about insolvency which would overrule the whims of organisations seeking to protect the interests of their own members, but it's an odd place:greengrin.

SteveHFC

05-03-2012, 11:28 PM

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4175071/Gers-stars-offer-to-slash-75-off-pay.html

jgl07

05-03-2012, 11:39 PM

I suspected that might be a possibility. It seems strange that the English football authorities can have a rule that clubs going into administration have to give priority to football debts above other liabilities. I'd have thought that England would have laws about insolvency which would overrule the whims of organisations seeking to protect the interests of their own members, but it's an odd place:greengrin.

he rules in England apply where a CVA is used and is a pre-condition for the club retaining its place in the League. This plays on the value of the Leeague place to the club in question.

The 'Football Debts First' rule would not apply in the case of liquidatation.

Spike Mandela

05-03-2012, 11:47 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2110716/Rangers-crisis-Wages-decision-Tuesday.html

ballengeich

05-03-2012, 11:56 PM

he rules in England apply where a CVA is used and is a pre-condition for the club retaining its place in the League. This plays on the value of the Leeague place to the club in question.

The 'Football Debts First' rule would not apply in the case of liquidatation.

That doesn't explain to me how, even under English regulations, a football debt could be settled before a CVA has been reached. Doesn't paying off a football debt leave even less for other creditors thus leaving their pence in the pound settlement even lower? The value of a future league place seems irrelevant to non-football creditors if a reorganised company will not be liable for debts prior to administration.

jgl07

06-03-2012, 12:20 AM

That doesn't explain to me how, even under English regulations, a football debt could be settled before a CVA has been reached. Doesn't paying off a football debt leave even less for other creditors thus leaving their pence in the pound settlement even lower? The value of a future league place seems irrelevant to non-football creditors if a reorganised company will not be liable for debts prior to administration.

Without the League place a CVA would be pointless so liquidation would be the only option. A football club will inevitably be worth more as a going concern to a buyer than a collection of (mostly worthless) assets. Player registrations would be of little or no value in the event of a liquidation and the real estate may not be of great value either if there are planning restrictions preventing redevelopment. Hence that all may pursuade the non-football creditors to accept paying the Football debts and go for the CVA.

This was done in a very dubious manner at Leeds. No-one seemed to know who the new owner of Leeds was after coming out of Administration and it was all hidden behind offshore trusts. The suspicion was that some of the major creditors (not HMRC) were given shares in the new company as a sweetener to get them to vote for a one pence in the pound payoff from the CVA. This enabled Bates to push through the CVA against the oppposition of HMRC.

Things seemed to be almost as bad at Portsmouth. There were suggestions that the debts from non-HMRC creditors was exaggerated in order to dilute the ability of HMRC to block a CVA.

ballengeich

06-03-2012, 12:38 AM

Without the League place a CVA would be pointless so liquidation would be the only option. A football club will inevitably be worth more as a going concern to a buyer than a collection of (mostly worthless) assets. Player registrations would be of little or no value in the event of a liquidation and the real estate may not be of great value either if there are planning restrictions preventing redevelopment. Hence that all may pursuade the non-football creditors to accept paying the Football debts and go for the CVA.

Thanks for that explanation. It still seems to me that the administrators may not have grasped the difference between Scottish and English regulations so CWG's claim of illegality may remain valid. Regardless of football rules and the interests of other creditors, HMRC seem to have such a large proportion of Rangers' debt that I suspect the payments to football creditors may not be unchallenged, as they could block any CVA should they wish.

Dashing Bob S

06-03-2012, 04:12 AM

They are English and so are the HMRC inspectors on Rangers case, probably don't know we have different Laws and rules up here in Jockville. :greengrin

Seems that Rangers FC are destined never to get fair crack of the whip.

McSwanky

06-03-2012, 05:27 AM

Remember this is Rangers - English law probably does apply here.

I would imagine Celtic would follow the Irish rules should they be unfortunate enough to suffer a similar fate.

Kaiser1962

06-03-2012, 07:15 AM

Dunfermline are hardly likely to vote to admit newco Rangers. If Rangers are kicked out of the SPL Dunfermline (or Hibs) would be the most likely benificiary in keeping their own place. Especially the case considering the comments by John Yorkston today.

The Administrators are behaving like total amateurs over the whole episode.

I disagree.

I think they are trying to keep the thing intact as long as they can, and hopefully get to March 16th to see who has put their money where their mouths are.

That said there are very few individuals in Scotland who would be able, let alone willing, to finance some sort of package for Rangers, so a consortium would be their best hope.

I also suspect the admins are still reeling as to how badly Rangers are run, and any attempts to impose financial boundaries are meeting wholesale resistance from within. They will have concluded that football is a general basket case.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 07:55 AM

Sorry I didn't respond earlier on - been a bit busy.

For starters I wouldn't have tried to push through a transfer for a new striker on X thou a week when it was obvious redundancies would soon be necessary.

Next I would have identified any high earners who's contracts were up in the summer (ie no transfer value) and eliminated them from the wage bill asap.

Not saying their job is an easy one but from the start Duff & Phelps seem to have had an undue regard for the on field fortunes of Rangers when their first duty is towards their creditors.

Besides I'm getting bored - LET THE DISMANTLING BEGIN!!! :drool:

I don't disagree with your method of cost-cutting. However, it's the timing that I don't agree with.

Some on here (apologies if you're not one of them) have suggested that the redundancies should have happened on Day 1. I just can't agree with that. In order to establish what costs you need to cut (and it's only in the past week that the £4.5m. figure has been mentioned), you need to go through the process that the admins have gone through, namely:-

Establish what assets you have.

Establish what assets you should have, but don't. (Ticketus, the Arsenal shares, etc.)

Establish what debts you have, and NOT what the company tells you they are (eg, the Revenue debt started at £9m, presumably on the basis of what the company said, but is actually £15m)

Maximise immediate income (eg, ensuring that the police cover is in place for the Kilmarnock game)

Examine the validity of any security, and don't rely on what the company tells you (in this case, a huge issue. It could be worth £18m or more).

At the same time, of course, you have to review costs all over the place, including staff. But, as I say, you can't begin to cut them substantially until all of the steps I set out have been properly taken. None of those can be done properly overnight.

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 08:05 AM

More importantly...are they dead yet?

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 08:07 AM

More importantly...are they dead yet?

Oh come on now.... which would you prefer? A bullet in the back of the head or a long, slow, painful slide into Hell?

green glory

06-03-2012, 08:33 AM

Oh come on now.... which would you prefer? A bullet in the back of the head or a long, slow, painful slide into Hell?

A slow painful slide into Hell obviously sounds better, but it's time to finish them off now. Looking forward to the Orcs in Mordor awaking to find a world without GRFC, with scenes of grown men vomiting in grief outside 'ra big hoose'.

Mwah hah hah!

:flag:

Posh Swanny

06-03-2012, 08:36 AM

Yet another investigation time ...

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11135

Into alleged second contracts going right back to the start of the SPL.

Admittedly it was in a different financial era but teams down south have been demoted for less in the past. Peterorough United were demoted in 1968 for OFFERING an unsanctioned bonus for ONE game - they didn't even pay them as PUFC got horsed 7-1 in the game in question! Though it was, as now, a blatant case of one rule for the little clubs and a totally different one for the big clubs and it still rankles with older Posh fans to this day.

In February 1967 Posh offered what was an illegal bonus of £100 per player to beat Sunderland in an FA Cup Fourth Round tie. The rules limited the bonus to £6 a man....and what a waste of effort that was, Sunderland won 7-1. Illegal signing on bonuses had also been made to players from funds made available by the Supporters' Club.

To the world at large it was a case of the new boys not getting to grips with the rules, of ignorance and stupidity rather than a calculated attempt at rule-breaking. In fact the club had been so unaware of what they were doing was wrong that some transgressions had been openly reported in the minutes of meetings and in the Company Statement of Accounts. But they were found guilty and the punishment proved to be the most draconian since Leeds City were expelled from the Football League in 1929 - Posh were to be demoted to the Fourth Division at the end of the season. And that announcement was made in November when hopes of a promotion were still high - a wasted season if there was ever one - though remarkably, the team accrued enough points over the season to have finished in the top half of the table!

What made the demotion even harder to take was the punishment handed down to two clubs at about the same time whose charges were perhaps a tad more serious. Later in the same season Port Vale were "expelled" from the Football League. However they were already in the bottom division, and were - as everybody expected - voted straight back into the same league at the end of the season. But then came the turn of a biggish club - Manchester United. What was the punishment they received in September 1969 - demotion, expulsion? Don't be silly - they were fined.

Keith_M

06-03-2012, 08:55 AM

CallumLaidlaw

06-03-2012, 08:59 AM

Chris Mclauchlan reporting on twitter that if an agreement can't be made today then the administrators will move in with a redundancy list this afternoon which WILL focus on high earners.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 09:00 AM

A quick question for Cropley Was God.

Is this thread now your full time job or do you have another one in the real world you do as well (when it doesn't distract you from this more important task)?

:wink:

p.s. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Are there 3 S's in obsession?

It helps that I am the boss, with immediate and unfettered access to Hibs.net, and no attention span....

Actually, if you think D&P are expensive at £600 per hour, just wait until Hibs.net get my bill. :greengrin

Keith_M

06-03-2012, 09:02 AM

Are there 3 S's in obsession?

It helps that I am the boss, with immediate and unfettered access to Hibs.net, and no attention span....

Actually, if you think D&P are expensive at £600 per hour, just wait until Hibs.net get my bill. :greengrin

So are you Mr Duff or Mr Phelps?

:greengrin

TrickyNicky

06-03-2012, 09:14 AM

A quick question for Cropley Was God.

Is this thread now your full time job or do you have another one in the real world you do as well (when it doesn't distract you from this more important task)?

:wink:

p.s. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Yes, thanks CWG !

I have read every post in this thread and you're knowledge and level head has been fantastic.

I keep waiting for your accountancy trouser dropping moment, I hope to be there for the vinegar stroke !!!:greengrin

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 09:15 AM

So are you Mr Duff or Mr Phelps?

:greengrin

Wash yer mouth out.

I am neither. However, I am hiding in one of the filing cabinets in Ibrox. The one marked "Do NOT look in here under any circumstances. This is NOT for the eyes of the polis, HMRC or anybody else involved in the Fenian conspiracy".

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 09:17 AM

Yes, thanks CWG !

I have read every post in this thread and you're knowledge and level head has been fantastic.

I keep waiting for your accountancy trouser dropping moment, I hope to be there for the vinegar stroke !!!:greengrin

Too far.

:na na:

Actually, too late. That happened the moment Craigy boy made that speech outside Ibrox with his bulging eyes (has nobody contacted his dealer yet??)

TrickyNicky

06-03-2012, 09:26 AM

Too far.

:na na:

Actually, too late. That happened the moment Craigy boy made that speech outside Ibrox with his bulging eyes (has nobody contacted his dealer yet??)

What an idea!

The " Craigie " is the new weedgie drug of choice - it turns dancers intae investors!

However the comedown is a " big Whytie " -yer eyes bulge, you can't remember where your money is, you have to sell all your belongings, strangers come in and rifle through your dirty washin and all this for a pound !:banana::nanafunk::nanasplit:

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 09:27 AM

What an idea!

The " Craigie " is the new weedgie drug of choice - it turns dancers intae investors!

However the comedown is a " big Whytie " -yer eyes bulge, you can't remember where your money is, you have to sell all your belongings, strangers come in and rifle through your dirty washin and all this for a pound !:banana::nanafunk::nanasplit:

:top marks

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 10:28 AM

:I'm waiti

basehibby

06-03-2012, 10:39 AM

I can see nothing in this article that justifies giving DAFC preference.

http://www.biggartbaillie.co.uk/ideas--insights/all-articles/corporate/the-a-to-z-of-administration

To be fair and balanced, I can see a number of common sense reasons for paying off the debt to the Pars relatively promptly.....

1) The quoted £80 odd thousand is a relative pish in the ocean compared to the gargantuan debts in store for the huns.

2) Defaulting on Dunfermline's gate money would carry the heavy risk of getting in EVEN MORE trouble with the SPL/SFA thereby putting Ranger's hopes of having a viable future as an ongoing entity in the SPL under even more pressure.

3) The timing of the transaction was such that paying Dunfermline was probably made relatively easy - ie the money presumably was still sitting in the safe as opposed to one of Whyte's offshore bank accounts.

4) The disruption caused to Dunfermline by non-payment would have been massive - thus creating a deluge of additional ill will and bad publicity which the denizens of Ibrox can ill afford at this time.

Putting all of the above together it is understandable that the decision was made by the administrators to pay Dunfermline the money they were due in full and at relatively short notice. Happilly not all of the same factors are in place regarding the outstanding cash the Yams are due for Lee Wallace :greengrin

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 10:58 AM

To be fair and balanced, I can see a number of common sense reasons for paying off the debt to the Pars relatively promptly.....

1) The quoted £80 odd thousand is a relative pish in the ocean compared to the gargantuan debts in store for the huns.

2) Defaulting on Dunfermline's gate money would carry the heavy risk of getting in EVEN MORE trouble with the SPL/SFA thereby putting Ranger's hopes of having a viable future as an ongoing entity in the SPL under even more pressure.

3) The timing of the transaction was such that paying Dunfermline was probably made relatively easy - ie the money presumably was still sitting in the safe as opposed to one of Whyte's offshore bank accounts.

4) The disruption caused to Dunfermline by non-payment would have been massive - thus creating a deluge of additional ill will and bad publicity which the denizens of Ibrox can ill afford at this time.

Putting all of the above together it is understandable that the decision was made by the administrators to pay Dunfermline the money they were due in full and at relatively short notice. Happilly not all of the same factors are in place regarding the outstanding cash the Yams are due for Lee Wallace :greengrin

Still illegal, though, as far as I can see.

However, I will let the admins. explain it.... perhaps there is something in the tortuous insolvency legislation that allows it. In a mischievous moment, I emailed the BBC, Herald, Record, Sun and Scotsman, asking that they put that question to D&P.

Moulin Yarns

06-03-2012, 10:59 AM

I understand, from the press, that haha hearts were paid £700k, with the rest due in 2 installments, July 2012, and I think July 2013. But that may be wrong.

ancienthibby

06-03-2012, 11:00 AM

To be fair and balanced, I can see a number of common sense reasons for paying off the debt to the Pars relatively promptly.....

1) The quoted £80 odd thousand is a relative pish in the ocean compared to the gargantuan debts in store for the huns.

2) Defaulting on Dunfermline's gate money would carry the heavy risk of getting in EVEN MORE trouble with the SPL/SFA thereby putting Ranger's hopes of having a viable future as an ongoing entity in the SPL under even more pressure.

3) The timing of the transaction was such that paying Dunfermline was probably made relatively easy - ie the money presumably was still sitting in the safe as opposed to one of Whyte's offshore bank accounts.

4) The disruption caused to Dunfermline by non-payment would have been massive - thus creating a deluge of additional ill will and bad publicity which the denizens of Ibrox can ill afford at this time.

Putting all of the above together it is understandable that the decision was made by the administrators to pay Dunfermline the money they were due in full and at relatively short notice. Happilly not all of the same factors are in place regarding the outstanding cash the Yams are due for Lee Wallace :greengrin

Breaking news - click on listen live near top RHC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland/

EDIT: Players proposal turned down - redundancies to be announced this pm!

Let the good times roll!

GloryGlory

06-03-2012, 11:01 AM

Still illegal, though, as far as I can see.

However, I will let the admins. explain it.... perhaps there is something in the tortuous insolvency legislation that allows it. In a mischievous moment, I emailed the BBC, Herald, Record, Sun and Scotsman, asking that they put that question to D&P.

As this was ticket money for the Pars' home game and belonged to Dunfermline, Rangers were only acting as agents in collecting it on their behalf. I suppose this could have something to do with it.

jgl07

06-03-2012, 11:01 AM

To be fair and balanced, I can see a number of common sense reasons for paying off the debt to the Pars relatively promptly.....

1) The quoted £80 odd thousand is a relative pish in the ocean compared to the gargantuan debts in store for the huns.

2) Defaulting on Dunfermline's gate money would carry the heavy risk of getting in EVEN MORE trouble with the SPL/SFA thereby putting Ranger's hopes of having a viable future as an ongoing entity in the SPL under even more pressure.

3) The timing of the transaction was such that paying Dunfermline was probably made relatively easy - ie the money presumably was still sitting in the safe as opposed to one of Whyte's offshore bank accounts.

4) The disruption caused to Dunfermline by non-payment would have been massive - thus creating a deluge of additional ill will and bad publicity which the denizens of Ibrox can ill afford at this time.

Putting all of the above together it is understandable that the decision was made by the administrators to pay Dunfermline the money they were due in full and at relatively short notice. Happilly not all of the same factors are in place regarding the outstanding cash the Yams are due for Lee Wallace :greengrin

I agree it makes absolute sense. However it appears that such payments are probably illegal as it would involve the Administrators applying selectivity in paying off creditors.

Certainly if I owned Dundee United and found that Rangers had paid off £85,000 to Dunfermline but were holding on to £200,000 to the Arabs, I would be hopping mad.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:03 AM

As this was ticket money for the Pars' home game and belonged to Dunfermline, Rangers were only acting as agents in collecting it on their behalf. I suppose this could have something to do with it.

That might be their stated justification, but it's still a creditor, IMO. As someone said earlier, the same rationale applies to PAYE & VAT, where RFC are collecting them for payment to HMRC... or not, as the case may be :greengrin

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:04 AM

I agree it makes absolute sense. However it appears that such payments are probably illegal as it would involve the Administrators applying selectivity in paying off creditors.

Certainly if I owned Dundee United and found that Rangers had paid off £85,000 to Dunfermline but were holding on to £200,000 to the Arabs, I would be hopping mad.

It may be that Hearts and DU are not sufficiently clued up about the rules, particularly the Scottish/English thing, hence they might not see the need to protest. However, HMRC will be.

Argylehibby

06-03-2012, 11:10 AM

That might be their stated justification, but it's still a creditor, IMO. As someone said earlier, the same rationale applies to PAYE & VAT, where RFC are collecting them for payment to HMRC... or not, as the case may be :greengrin

I dont think they are a creditor as the money was Dunfermline's and was not funds owed as a result of a fee for a service provided. What should have happened is that Rangers should have held these funds in a seperate designated (client money) account and not part of their own assets. When the Administrators established that fact then they would be able to release the funds.

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 11:12 AM

Gregg Wylde released already according to Twitter...

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:13 AM

I dont think they are a creditor as the money was Dunfermline's and was not funds owed as a result of a fee for a service provided. What should have happened is that Rangers should have held these funds in a seperate designated (client money) account and not part of their own assets. When the Administrators established that fact then they would be able to release the funds.

I doubt very much that a Client Account was operated. If it was, I might agree with you. However, if it was, then ALL the money should have been in there, and there would be no staged payments, as is happening. It could have been paid out in full.

If there was no Client Account, ie it went into the pot, then it's a creditor.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:17 AM

Gregg Wylde released already according to Twitter...

Surprised at that, TBH. Would have thought he had a sell-on value. Is his contract running out soon?

hibs0666

06-03-2012, 11:18 AM

Assuming that 800K of the million pound monthly cost saving is to come from players wages, that's about 200K per week.

If ten players are to be released then the average take-home wage has to be in the region of £10K after tax. Cutting to the chase, for every low earner - like Greg Wylde - that is punted a big earner like Whittaker needs to be papped oot the door if that 10K a week average is to be attained.

Let the good times roll! :thumbsup:

HibeeBigFly

06-03-2012, 11:19 AM

AC Milan Legends v Rangers "Legends"

Imagine getting done for benefit fraud and then suggesting a coffee morning at the local church to pay the bill.

:confused:

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 11:19 AM

Surprised at that, TBH. Would have thought he had a sell-on value. Is his contract running out soon?

No i think from what i read the other night he had a few years on his contract. Also spotted on twitter that more than 11 are expected to go today, dont know how much truth there is in that.

To answer your question earlier, a slow death for sure but this looks like the first real signs of that happening.

jgl07

06-03-2012, 11:25 AM

According to the Herald Diary, Andy Cameron was doing a charity auction and raised £3,000 for a trip on the plane for two to Celtic's first away European fixture next season.

He then attempted to raise some money for Rangers but his offer of two seats on the bus to Brechin next season received no offers!

CallumLaidlaw

06-03-2012, 11:25 AM

No i think from what i read the other night he had a few years on his contract. Also spotted on twitter that more than 11 are expected to go today, dont know how much truth there is in that.

To answer your question earlier, a slow death for sure but this looks like the first real signs of that happening.

He signed a 5 yr contract in August!!!

JoeTortolanoFanClub

06-03-2012, 11:25 AM

Gregg Wylde released already according to Twitter...

Good young player. We should take a look at him.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:26 AM

Good young player. We should take a look at him.

Canny play him :na na:

Argylehibby

06-03-2012, 11:27 AM

I doubt very much that a Client Account was operated. If it was, I might agree with you. However, if it was, then ALL the money should have been in there, and there would be no staged payments, as is happening. It could have been paid out in full.

If there was no Client Account, ie it went into the pot, then it's a creditor.

I agree it's highly unlikely given their accounting practices that they would have bothered to seperate assets. I hadn't realised they were paying Dunfy in installments to be honest!

ancienthibby

06-03-2012, 11:29 AM

Beeb Radio now reporting that their understanding is that as many as up to sixteen of the first team squad could go!

I'd call that decimation!:greengrin

ScottB

06-03-2012, 11:36 AM

Rumours on Twitter that Wylde and several others asked to be released...

hibs0666

06-03-2012, 11:36 AM

He signed a 5 yr contract in August!!!

Wylde asked to be released apparently, and he's not alone. Seems like there are plenty Rangers player that do indeed do walking away. :wink:

As many as 16 might be away by the close of play. Shame we're too ****** to get the chance to play them again this season.

jgl07

06-03-2012, 11:38 AM

As many as 16 might be away by the close of play. Shame we're too ****** to get the chance to play them again this season.

Unless the SPL apply a further points deduction for the dodgy contracts?

ScottB

06-03-2012, 11:39 AM

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/299909-rangers-release-gregg-wylde/

Fair play to him. Obviously he knows he'll get a new club no bother, but still.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:39 AM

Beeb Radio now reporting that their understanding is that as many as up to sixteen of the first team squad could go!

I'd call that decimation!:greengrin

A.Pedant writes:-

I wouldnae. "The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth""

It's a lot more than decimation.... it's bloody carnage :greengrin

TrinityHibs

06-03-2012, 11:40 AM

Its days like this I wish my old man was still alive. I think he might have even bought some of that internet stuff just to hear whats going on down Ipox way. I know he will be smiling just now.:agree:

Hibs Class

06-03-2012, 11:41 AM

AC Milan Legends v Rangers "Legends"

Imagine getting done for benefit fraud and then suggesting a coffee morning at the local church to pay the bill.

:confused:

I think the Milan match was already arranged as a fund raiser for rangers and AC Mmilan's charitable foundations but that since the club entered administration the rangers foundation has agreed to "forego the majority of its share of the proceeds" so that that money can go to the club instead.

There is something smelly about it.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:41 AM

BEEJ

06-03-2012, 11:42 AM

Beeb Radio now reporting that their understanding is that as many as up to sixteen of the first team squad could go!

I'd call that decimation!:greengrin
Whereas just ten departures would presumably be called decimalisation?

:eyes:

McSwanky

06-03-2012, 11:43 AM

A.Pedant writes:-

I wouldnae. "The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth""

It's a lot more than decimation.... it's bloody carnage :greengrin

I suppose you'll be telling us that October is still the eighth month of the year as well... :wink:

PatHead

06-03-2012, 11:43 AM

I think the Milan match was already arranged as a fund raiser for rangers and AC Mmilan's charitable foundations but that since the club entered administration the rangers foundation has agreed to "forego the majority of its share of the proceeds" so that that money can go to the club instead.

There is something smelly about it.

Something smelly about Rangers full stop.

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 11:44 AM

Mervan Celik told he can leave too.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:44 AM

I suppose you'll be telling us that October is still the eighth month of the year as well... :wink:

Actually, as a smug Latin scholar who very rarely gets the chance to show off 5 years of "wasted" education, that kind of stuff is right up my pedantic street.... :greengrin

hibs0666

06-03-2012, 11:44 AM

Cellik away - thanks for the memories.

hibsbollah

06-03-2012, 11:45 AM

Wylde was very impressive last time at ER. He'll go far.

Andy74

06-03-2012, 11:46 AM

Canny play him :na na:

It's very likely that dispensation would be given to get these players registered at other clubs.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 11:47 AM

It's very likely that dispensation would be given to get these players registered at other clubs.

That would be fair, of course. Is that normal in this situation? And who gives the dispensation... UEFA?

PatHead

06-03-2012, 11:48 AM

Just chuckling to myself...............last time I saw Charles Patterson outside Ibrox/training centre he was reporting on their expected signings on transfer window day including the Norwich centre forward. What planet were they living on..How the mighty fall.:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:gree ngrinLoving every minute

sambajustice

06-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Been waiting for this day for about 3 weeks or so now!! Thought it was never going to come!!

Andy74

06-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Beeb Radio now reporting that their understanding is that as many as up to sixteen of the first team squad could go!

I'd call that decimation!:greengrin

I'd call it hilarious. :greengrin

Or does someone being made redundant mean I should say nothing? :wink:

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 11:50 AM

Anyone else think that what's left of Rangers will finish the season in free fall??

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 11:57 AM

Anyone else think that what's left of Rangers will finish the season in free fall??

sambajustice

06-03-2012, 11:57 AM

This is kinda like the transfer window but in reverse!!

:greengrin

Andy74

06-03-2012, 11:59 AM

That would be fair, of course. Is that normal in this situation? And who gives the dispensation... UEFA?

SPL rules allow for them to review a case such as this, not sure if there are UEFA rules above that, probably but I think they would also have some leeway.

It does make sense that you shouldn't be restricted from getting a job if you had a contract outwith the window which was then torn up.

Wylde though appears to have voluntarily walked. I doubt he would be able to sign for anyone until next season.

proud_and_green

06-03-2012, 12:02 PM

A.Pedant writes:-

I wouldnae. "The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth""

It's a lot more than decimation.... it's bloody carnage :greengrin

A further pedant writes:

Decimation was a punishment meted out to Roman Legions for various acts of indiscipline. It involved every tenth man being beaten to death by his fellow legionairies.

As you say that would suggest, firstly a playing staff of 160 and secondly murder being done at Ibrox.

poolman

06-03-2012, 12:13 PM

This is kinda like the transfer window but in reverse!!

:greengrin

:agree: I'm about to finish work so a few ales in front of sky Sports News this afternoon methinks :greengrin

basehibby

06-03-2012, 12:17 PM

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 12:21 PM

A further pedant writes:

Decimation was a punishment meted out to Roman Legions for various acts of indiscipline. It involved every tenth man being beaten to death by his fellow legionairies.

As you say that would suggest, firstly a playing staff of 160 and secondly murder being done at Ibrox.

...and that the word "Roman" can still be used at Ibrox. :greengrin

Onion

06-03-2012, 12:24 PM

This is kinda like the transfer window but in reverse!!

:greengrin

You can bet there will be a lot of mischief-making going on between other clubs and the rangers player agents cutting new deals left, right and centre. Rangers and the Admins try to give the impression that THEY are in complete control of timings and outcomes, when there will be plenty of activity going on in the background to prise the better players out of Hunbrox before it gets rancid:greengrin

lucky

06-03-2012, 12:28 PM

I know I'm in a small minority but seeing people lose thier jobs is not something I can rejoice in. Even if its Rangers players.

IWasThere2016

06-03-2012, 12:28 PM

I'd call it hilarious. :greengrin

Or does someone being made redundant mean I should say nothing? :wink:

Laughing at the collective Gers is acceptable IMHO - but not at the individuals.

Greg Wylde's actions and words seem very commendable to me. Good luck to him.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 12:29 PM

I know I'm in a small minority but seeing people lose thier jobs is not something I can rejoice in. Even if its Rangers players.

I share that. I feel less sorry for the players, of course, as they will almost all get new jobs. It's the others, in marketing and the likes, that will struggle. They are the real victims of the nonsense.

Andy74

06-03-2012, 12:33 PM

Laughing at the collective Gers is acceptable IMHO - but not at the individuals.

Greg Wylde's actions and words seem very commendable to me. Good luck to him.

He will have an offer. Looks like the good guy to boot.

IWasThere2016

06-03-2012, 12:34 PM

He will have an offer. Looks like the good guy to boot.

I am sure he does

blackpoolhibs

06-03-2012, 12:35 PM

I share that. I feel less sorry for the players, of course, as they will almost all get new jobs. It's the others, in marketing and the likes, that will struggle. They are the real victims of the nonsense.

I'm not so sure, dance with the devil and all that. The huns will have employed a lot of 'like minded people' The more the merrier for me, the lot of them. An evil institution, one thats rotten to the core.

Each and every employee knows just what that club stands for, and each and every one of them didn't care one jot.

easty

06-03-2012, 12:36 PM

He will have an offer. Looks like the good guy to boot.

Well, he sounds like a good guy.....he looks like a worm. Like if a worm was human sized, thats how I'd imagine there face was.

Famous5forever

06-03-2012, 12:37 PM

You can bet there will be a lot of mischief-making going on between other clubs and the rangers player agents cutting new deals left, right and centre. Rangers and the Admins try to give the impression that THEY are in complete control of timings and outcomes, when there will be plenty of activity going on in the background to prise the better players out of Hunbrox before it gets rancid:greengrin

Its kinda like every man for them selves now or rats leaving a sinking ship all depends on how you look at it.

I Will say it is exciting awaiting the next shred of news who is going who is staying so far it looks like they have saved around 50k so just 950k to go now:cb

Moulin Yarns

06-03-2012, 12:37 PM

Any ex Ranger wanting to sign for another Scottish club must do so by 31 March and FIFA dispensation. (Chris Mclaughlin)

Andy74

06-03-2012, 12:37 PM

Well, he sounds like a good guy.....he looks like a worm. Like if a worm was human sized, thats how I'd imagine there face was.

Fair point.

s.a.m

06-03-2012, 12:42 PM

Laughing at the collective Gers is acceptable IMHO - but not at the individuals.

Greg Wylde's actions and words seem very commendable to me. Good luck to him.

Acht....that's where I am. Thoroughly enjoying the carnage, and have no time for pundits and the like agonising over their self-destruction through cheating. But I do feel sorry for the folk caught up in it.*

* There are some notable exceptions.

JeMeSouviens

06-03-2012, 12:46 PM

Laughing at the collective Gers is acceptable IMHO - but not at the individuals.

Greg Wylde's actions and words seem very commendable to me. Good luck to him.

According to Clyde reporter on twitter, already has visits to Blackpool and Southampton lined up. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for him.

WindyMiller

06-03-2012, 12:47 PM

Actually, as a smug Latin scholar who very rarely gets the chance to show off 5 years of "wasted" education, that kind of stuff is right up my pedantic street.... :greengrin

Holy Cross?

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 12:47 PM

According to Clyde reporter on twitter, already has visits to Blackpool and Southampton lined up. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for him.

Can we give him a tour of East Mains? :aok:

easty

06-03-2012, 12:49 PM

According to Clyde reporter on twitter, already has visits to Blackpool and Southampton lined up. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for him.

Indeed we don't. He gets to head down to the Pleasure Beach, while I'm stuck behind a desk in George Square! Dunno whats in Southampton though.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 12:52 PM

Holy Cross?

Puhlease. Schola Regia, if you don't mind :na na:

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 12:52 PM

Indeed we don't. He gets to head down to the Pleasure Beach, while I'm stuck behind a desk in George Square! Dunno whats in Southampton though.

Deek.

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 12:58 PM

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/johnnycul/znsdap.jpg

KeithTheHibby

06-03-2012, 01:03 PM

WindyMiller

06-03-2012, 01:04 PM

Puhlease. Schola Regia, if you don't mind :na na:

"5 years of "wasted" education"

:aok:

:cb

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 01:05 PM

Anyone else think that what's left of Rangers will finish the season in free fall??

You got TQMs mobile. :greengrin

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 01:06 PM

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 01:09 PM

Deek.

:tee hee:

IWasThere2016

06-03-2012, 01:14 PM

According to Clyde reporter on twitter, already has visits to Blackpool and Southampton lined up. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for him.

Sorry and 'not laughing' are not the same :wink: Besides, he could have sat in waiting on a severance payment - ironically the first £30k is tax-free :cool2: - and then signed on elsewhere also.

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 01:15 PM

You got TQMs mobile. :greengrin

What do you mean? :greengrin

What do you mean? :greengrin

Andy74

06-03-2012, 01:16 PM

Sorry and 'not laughing' are not the same :wink: Besides, he could have sat in waiting on a severance payment - ironically the first £30k is tax-free :cool2: - and then signed on elsewhere also.

I thought you didn't get any severance with administration and you were just emptied? Possibly added to the creditor pile and paid a small percentage at best?

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 01:18 PM

I thought you didn't get any severance with administration and you were just emptied? Possibly added to the creditor pile and paid a small percentage at best?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10026695

basehibby

06-03-2012, 01:33 PM

None of the players released shall find it difficult to get another club, most will be playing for them in a couple of weeks therefore earning a wage.

I do feel sorry for any of those who perhaps work behind the scenes.

Anyone hear that trophy eared welt Billy Dodds on the radio before the games on Saturday? Was pretty much saying that what is going on at Ibrox just now is a 'tragedy'. No Bill, what is going on in Syria is a tragedy, not some overpaid footballers being released from a contract owned by a club who have broken the rules for the past 10 years.

Some of these pundits are so far removed from reality it beggars belief!

:agree:
:top marks It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Dodds is at the forefront of the pundits slavering a load of utter pish about this situation. He always comes across as a guy of very limited thought processes and I often wonder how on earth the BBC or anyone else can justify employing him - if he's supposed to represent part of the intelligentsia of Scotland's ex-pros then footballers must be a lot thicker than I ever thought plausible.
I suppose in his defence, as an ex-pro, he'd probably be pilloried if he expressed the genuine excitement and enthusiasm which represents the majority of Scottish football fans' feelings about Rangers' plight - what really annoys me is the pathetic genuflecting, subservient grovelling platitudes which have represented the vast majority of journalistic output - the genuine zeitgeist of the Scottish football fan is being willfully ignored!
SO - ALL YOU JOURNOS OUT THERE - PLEASE SHOW SOME GUTS AND INTEGRITY AND ACKNOWLEDGE AND DISCUSS THE GENUINE DELIGHT THAT THE MAJORITY OF SCOTTISH FOOTBALL FANS FEEL ABOUT RANGER'S SITUATION - WE(MOST OF US ANYWAY) BELIEVE THEY DESERVE EVERYTHING THAT'S COMING TO THEM AND WANT THEM SHOWN NO MERCY - AND WITH GOOD REASON - PLEASE DO YOUR JOBS AND GIVE THIS SIDE OF THE DEBATE THE AIRING IT DESERVES.

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 01:41 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/dg6nom.jpg

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 01:52 PM

http://i.imgur.com/gYP4m.gif

Dashing Bob S

06-03-2012, 01:54 PM

Wylde was very impressive last time at ER. He'll go far.

Born to be...

Benny Brazil

06-03-2012, 02:13 PM

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/299914-live-coverage-rangers-player-cuts/#stv_clicktracker_source=posts_also_read

Now normally we have live coverage of transfer window deadline days - STV has come up with Rangers own version.

Bighoose

06-03-2012, 02:22 PM

Dodds has annoyed the hell out of me throughout all of this. Whilst the likes of Traynor and Young have had worthwhile contributions to make to the whole debate, Dodds has shown himself up to be the ex-footballer that he is.

I was nearly emailing Chick Young the Smaritans phone number last night. He was nearly in tears as he slavered on about how tragic it all is for Rangers.

As someone said he must have the best eyesight of any St Mirren fan as he manages to watch them from away in Govan.

Spike Mandela

06-03-2012, 02:24 PM

I'd call it hilarious. :greengrin

Or does someone being made redundant mean I should say nothing? :wink:

I have experienced redundancy twice in my life and it isn't very nice but compared to death I'm sure it's not so bad. :rolleyes:

Your delight in giving your opinion on somebody who has just passed away just makes you look a bit of a classless twat Andy but you keep banging that drum If it makes you feel better.

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 02:38 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/dg6nom.jpg

:faf:

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 02:46 PM

Papac gone?

green glory

06-03-2012, 02:52 PM

Papac gone?

Info?

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 02:55 PM

Worst. Administration. Ever.

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 02:59 PM

Info?

Sorry i think i might of been misreading twitter..probably because i am a twat.

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 02:59 PM

Worst. Administration. Ever.

Administrators in talks with players again to stop the job cuts !!!!!

GordonHFC

06-03-2012, 03:05 PM

Why is this taking so long.

Surely the easiest way to do it is:

****, ****, GOOD GUY, ****, GOOD GUY, **** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 03:06 PM

Hibrandenburg

06-03-2012, 03:09 PM

FFS I just nip out of the house for a quick trip to Madrid and back and this happens. 5 new pages on this thread and all compulsive reading. I need to reduce my working hours to keep up.

Dashing Bob S

06-03-2012, 03:22 PM

Worst. Administration. Ever.

Lucky for the Huns the administrators weren't in charge before now, then they'd be in REAL trouble!

I hope the administrators are trying to spin out their contract and the fees they are due, because they aren't going to be lining up round the block to employ those comedians after this fiasco.

greenlex

06-03-2012, 03:23 PM

Why is this taking so long.

Surely the easiest way to do it is:

****, ****, GOOD GUY, ****, GOOD GUY, **** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not so easy when it reads: ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****,
****, ****. :dunno:

greenlex

06-03-2012, 03:27 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/dg6nom.jpg
Your attachments today are all top drawer sir. Keep em coming. I think I have just literally pished myself!!!!!

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 03:30 PM

Rangers fans already making up excuses not to spend money watching their team get beat.

http://www.realtown.com/uploads/28059/images/Jumping_20ship.jpg

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 03:30 PM

http://forum.rangers...howtopic=213138 (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=8fc9dbb64ba480f6388b7cb6cec297a1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Fin dex.php%2Ftopic%2F167655-rangers-now-in-administration%2Fpage__st__5175__gopid__6031556%23 entry6031556&v=1&libid=1331049790022&out=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rangersmedia.co.uk%2Findex. php%3Fshowtopic%3D213138&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Fin dex.php%2Ftopic%2F167655-rangers-now-in-administration%2Fpage__st__5175&title=Rangers%20now%20in%20administration%20-%20The%20Pie%20Shop%20-%20Page%20208%23entry6031556%23entry6031556%23entr y6031556&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rangers...howtopic%3D213138&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13310500553461)

Boycotting Dundee Utd Away :faf:

You couldn't make it up. :greengrin

Apparently Dundee Utd are the ****holes of the league now. When did this come about? :confused:

Onion

06-03-2012, 03:31 PM

Lucky for the Huns the administrators weren't in charge before now, then they'd be in REAL trouble!

I hope the administrators are trying to spin out their contract and the fees they are due, because they aren't going to be lining up round the block to employ those comedians after this fiasco.

You wait... the Admins next move will be to offer to cut their fees to help save ra 'Gers. Its a wonder they haven't asked the other SPL clubs for donations... or is that plan 536 ?

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 03:33 PM

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/ :faf:

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/sponsors/fyfemoir-alt.gif (http://www.fyfemoirassociates.com/) :faf:

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 03:36 PM

cad

06-03-2012, 03:40 PM

http://forum.rangers...howtopic=213138 (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=8fc9dbb64ba480f6388b7cb6cec297a1&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Fin dex.php%2Ftopic%2F167655-rangers-now-in-administration%2Fpage__st__5175__gopid__6031556%23 entry6031556&v=1&libid=1331049790022&out=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rangersmedia.co.uk%2Findex. php%3Fshowtopic%3D213138&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pieandbovril.com%2Fforum%2Fin dex.php%2Ftopic%2F167655-rangers-now-in-administration%2Fpage__st__5175&title=Rangers now in administration - The Pie Shop - Page 208%23entry6031556%23entry6031556%23entry6031556&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rangers...howtopic%3D213138&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13310500553461)

Boycotting Dundee Utd Away :faf:

I had a quick look as well ,seems the logical thing to do for the hordes , mind you there players will be wondering whats going on 10 players + papped oot the door nae body turning up ,whats the point some would say .

They should stay away from every ground it the SPL don't see why Dun Utd should get preferential treatment ,nae Rangers in your ground ever again how good does that sound ,nae bile , nae bigotry ,nae Chick Young this has got to be a winner .

blaikie

06-03-2012, 03:40 PM

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/ :faf:

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/sponsors/fyfemoir-alt.gif (http://www.fyfemoirassociates.com/) :faf:
:greengrin
My personal fav from the Aberdeen Forum :faf:
http://i.imgur.com/77DJY.gif

CallumLaidlaw

06-03-2012, 03:42 PM

They seem to be under the impression that Dundee Utd are "baddies" and that they are going to hurt them badly by not attending the match. :rolleyes:

And apparently half of the SPL are going to fold if Rangers aren't there next season. :tee hee:

Yep, guy in my work says most rangers fans want them to go down to division three so they can sit back and laugh at the spl going belly up. I still don't think that would happen. Yes it would force teams to downsize dramatically but is that a bad thing

Andy74

06-03-2012, 03:43 PM

I have experienced redundancy twice in my life and it isn't very nice but compared to death I'm sure it's not so bad. :rolleyes:

Your delight in giving your opinion on somebody who has just passed away just makes you look a bit of a classless twat Andy but you keep banging that drum If it makes you feel better.

Still find it amusing you can say 'no great loss' about someone dead and there is a issue but you can call someone alive who you don't agree with a clasless twat.

Still, if that's your logic then go for it! :greengrin

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 03:45 PM

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/ :faf:

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/sponsors/fyfemoir-alt.gif (http://www.fyfemoirassociates.com/) :faf:

Sign on
Sign on
with pen in your hands
cos you'll never get a job
you'll never get a job

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/lolrangers.gif

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 03:48 PM

Yep, guy in my work says most rangers fans want them to go down to division three so they can sit back and laugh at the spl going belly up. I still don't think that would happen. Yes it would force teams to downsize dramatically but is that a bad thing

I've never understood peoples beliefs that we need the OF in the league.

I really don't see how it would hurt us in the long term. Teams would certainly be a bit more cash strapped in the beginning, but at least we'd have a cleaner, fairer league to build upon. And it would just force teams to be more sensible.

The SPL has no future (and never has done) with the OF in it.

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 03:58 PM

Also pretty ironic that so many fans are boycotting when they apparently "don't do walking away". :greengrin

SteveHFC

06-03-2012, 04:03 PM

http://www.fivestarremovals.co.uk/ :faf:

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 04:27 PM

What are they waiting for at greyskull, how hard can it be to tell ten players to GTF. :cb

Cheshire Hibee

06-03-2012, 04:29 PM

What are they waiting for at greyskull, how hard can it be to tell ten players to GTF. :cb

According to Sky agent for Naismith & Whitty entered Murray park in last half hour after being summoned by the players.

Sure they won't have issues finding new clubs and no fee for Huns in the summer. :thumbsup:

Cheshire Hibee

06-03-2012, 04:32 PM

According to Sky agent for Naismith & Whitty entered Murray park in last half hour after being summoned by the players.

Sure they won't have issues finding new clubs and no fee for Huns in the summer. :thumbsup:

Just thought maybe Administrator trying to make them redundant and been told to bolt as their contract not with RFC. !!!!

Please let it be that :thumbsup::thumbsup:

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 04:33 PM

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=rangers+jokes&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=aIGiJsf8som-0M:&imgrefurl=http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php%3Ftno%3D121%26fid%3D18%26sty%3D2%26act%3 D1%26mid%3D2115308525&docid=6oDJ50EuD0JsCM&imgurl=http://i41.tinypic.com/6qv2ow.jpg&w=447&h=294&ei=RkpWT8jANYK08QO566CCCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=558&vpy=335&dur=14218&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=149&ty=90&sig=111304256375870868267&page=1&tbnh=129&tbnw=181&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0

Andy74

06-03-2012, 04:38 PM

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 04:39 PM

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=rangers+jokes&start=241&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=667&addh=36&tbm=isch&tbnid=eJWxkwGN-w0yhM:&imgrefurl=http://www.etims.net/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26i d%3D3522%26Itemid%3D2&docid=AJ7fmbTF3Ty3_M&imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2qH36XUGum8/SpehSwOLg4I/AAAAAAAAAE8/AvoJ_Y0PtAg/s1600/the%25252Bend%25252Bis%25252Bnigh&w=366&h=554&ei=p0tWT6vDHMO28QPJv-TQCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=811&vpy=221&dur=979&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=112&ty=171&sig=111304256375870868267&page=11&tbnh=148&tbnw=116&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:241

cad

06-03-2012, 04:42 PM

Theyre kaaking it on Rangers Media if either McGregor, Davis or Naismith go especially Naismith theyre none to fussed about Whitty tho

Spike Mandela

06-03-2012, 04:55 PM

Still find it amusing you can say 'no great loss' about someone dead and there is a issue but you can call someone alive who you don't agree with a clasless twat.

Still, if that's your logic then go for it! :greengrin

Difference is you had the right to reply Andy and indeed did so thus proving yourself a classless twat:greengrin

We all have opinions about all kinds of things but there is a difference between having an opinion and being opinionated. Was it really necessary to publish your opinion of him as soon as he was announced dead? Nobody is asking you to change your opinion of him but would it be impossible for you to keep it to yourelf for once.:cb

PaulSmith

06-03-2012, 04:59 PM

This is definitely the hall mark of protecting the playing assets that RFC hold if deal to reduce wages for only 3 months is done and dusted as it seems it is.
You have to speculate that the admin team are very confident of a buyer being in place.
Still huge question mark over if hmrc will accept a CVA to exit admin or what the big case will do

Spike Mandela

06-03-2012, 05:04 PM

These administrators do seem to have difficulty in making the difficult decisions and prefer instead to let the players decide when to leave or not.:confused:

Now appears many have cut deals on pay cuts with promises of free transfers in summer or sell on clauses in transfers.

Keith_M

06-03-2012, 05:12 PM

A little reminder to all of how the Billionaire Craig Whyte (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2010/11/18/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-on-the-brink-of-taking-over-the-club-he-loves-86908-22722617/) was introduced to the Scottish public by Keith Jackson in a --'DAILY RECORD EXCLUSIVE!!'-- just before the takeover.

:greengrin

Hibs Class

06-03-2012, 05:15 PM

Puhlease. Schola Regia, if you don't mind :na na:

One of Badger's boys?

easty

06-03-2012, 05:31 PM

Difference is you had the right to reply Andy and indeed did so thus proving yourself a classless twat:greengrin

We all have opinions about all kinds of things but there is a difference between having an opinion and being opinionated. Was it really necessary to publish your opinion of him as soon as he was announced dead? Nobody is asking you to change your opinion of him but would it be impossible for you to keep it to yourelf for once.:cb

Aye Andy, keep it between you and your elf.:greengrin

Spike Mandela

06-03-2012, 05:35 PM

Aye Andy, keep it between you and your elf.:greengrin

Ha ha damn these pesky ipad's.:greengrin

The_Sauz

06-03-2012, 05:36 PM

Got those of the Carlisle utd forums:
A van driver used to amuse himself by scaring the **** out of every Glasgow Rangers fan he saw strutting down the road in his blue and white uniform. He would swerve as if to hit them, and at the last minute, swerve back onto the road.

One day as he was driving along the road, he saw a priest hitch-hiking. He thought he would do his good deed for the day and offer the priest a lift. "Where are you going, Father?" he asked.
"I'm going to say Mass at St Joseph's church, about 2 miles down the road," came the reply.
"No problem," said the driver, "Jump in and I'll give you a lift."
The happy priest climbed into the van and they set off down the road.

Suddenly the driver caught site of a Hun on the pavement, and instinctively swerved as if to hit him, but just in time, remembering the priest in his van, swerved back to the road again, narrowly missing the .

Although he was certain that he didn't hit him, however, he still heard a loud "Thud". Not understanding where the noise came from, he glanced in his mirrors, and, seeing nothing, said to the priest, "Sorry Father, I almost hit that Rangers Supporter walking down the road there."
"That's okay," replied the priest, "I got the *****er with the door!!"

Rangers just announced new tv deal. From next season all their games to be shown on the history channel.

Weather warning: Heavy floods in glasgow area as celtic fans pIsh themselves at rangers

bbc news - lottery winner buys rangers!
a family member has said "***** knows what he would have bought if he got 4 numbers"

A primary teacher explains to her class that she is a Rangers fan. She asks her students to raise their hands if they, too, are Rangers fans. Everyone in the class raises their hand except one little girl. The teacher looks at the girl with surprise and says, "Mary, why didn't you raise your hand?"
"Because I'm not a Rangers fan," she replied.
The teacher, still shocked, asked, "Well, if you are not a Rangers fan, then who are you a fan of?"
"I am a Celtic fan, and proud of it," Mary replied.
The teacher could not believe her ears.
"Mary, why, pray tell, are you a Celtic fan?"
"Because my mum is a Celtic fan, and my dad is a Celtic fan, so I'm a Celtic fan too!"
"Well," said the teacher in an obviously annoyed tone, "that is no reason for you to be a Celtic fan. You don't have to be just like your parents all of the time. What if your mum was a prostitute and your dad was a drug addict, what would you be then?"
"Then," Mary smiled, "Then I'd be a Rangers fan."

:greengrin

Jim44

06-03-2012, 05:37 PM

steakbake

06-03-2012, 05:38 PM

I'd give Whittaker his job back. And I see David Murphy has been dropped at Birmingham. Oh for the days they used to fire passes around the field. Both have a stunning ability to control the ball with the first touch.

Spike Mandela

06-03-2012, 05:40 PM

It looks like it's business as usual (except for the two already named) on the playing side for the next few months. They'll probably still get second place but will UEFA let them play in Europe next season?

If that is the case what is the difference for the Rangers fans? The media would have you believe they are hurting but the truth is same manager, same players, same stadium, bigger crowds and still second in league. Wish we had their pain!

Hibi

06-03-2012, 05:44 PM

If that is the case what is the difference for the Rangers fans? The media would have you believe they are hurting but the truth is same manager, same players, same stadium, bigger crowds and still second in league. Wish we had their pain!

Absolutely and I think I just heard Neil Doncaster on the radio saying regardless what happens they will be in the SPL next year.

Andy74

06-03-2012, 05:49 PM

Difference is you had the right to reply Andy and indeed did so thus proving yourself a classless twat:greengrin

We all have opinions about all kinds of things but there is a difference between having an opinion and being opinionated. Was it really necessary to publish your opinion of him as soon as he was announced dead? Nobody is asking you to change your opinion of him but would it be impossible for you to keep it to yourelf for once.:cb

Okay. If you keep yours to yourself the next time too! :greengrin And I'll have a quick word with the elf too.

TornadoHibby

06-03-2012, 05:51 PM

One of Badger's boys?

More like Fred Scott if he was a Latin student! :wink: :greengrin

The_Todd

06-03-2012, 05:53 PM

Absolutely and I think I just heard Neil Doncaster on the radio saying regardless what happens they will be in the SPL next year.

That's not his decision.

easty

06-03-2012, 05:55 PM

Absolutely and I think I just heard Neil Doncaster on the radio saying regardless what happens they will be in the SPL next year.

Where/when did he say that? What a fud.

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 05:58 PM

Absolutely and I think I just heard Neil Doncaster on the radio saying regardless what happens they will be in the SPL next year.

What a fud!

It certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest though. Sadly.

Hibi

06-03-2012, 05:59 PM

Where/when did he say that? What a fud.

Yes they appear to be talking about it on radio Scotland now, even if they are liquidated they would likely continue in the SPL. if that happens I'm through with Scottish football, they have had everything stacked in their favour for years, they should be brought to justice.

Ultimately the clubs have to choose what happens but how likely will it be the majority vote them out?

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 06:04 PM

Yes they appear to be talking about it on radio Scotland now, even if they are liquidated they would likely continue in the SPL. if that happens I'm through with Scottish football, they have had everything stacked in their favour for years, they should be brought to justice.

Ultimately the clubs have to choose what happens but how likely will it be the majority vote them out?

It doesn't need to be a majority vote. You're forgetting how the vote ratio system works.

If Celtic vote them out (which they will without a doubt), every other club would have to vote to keep them in.

At least, I think thats how it works. :confused: (Sorry if i've got it wrong)

ScottB

06-03-2012, 06:14 PM

It doesn't need to be a majority vote. You're forgetting how the vote ratio system works.

If Celtic vote them out (which they will without a doubt), every other club would have to vote to keep them in.

At least, I think thats how it works. :confused: (Sorry if i've got it wrong)

2 clubs would have to say no.

So, as things stand, Dunfermlines chairman has said he has big issues with them getting straight back in. Assuming they finish bottom, voting No keeps them in the top league.

Hearts, owed money, which they would lose if Rangers liquidate. Vlad seems to have a burning hatred for all things Weegie and would likely have some crazy dream of winning the league. Or just fancy sticking it to the 'monkeys.'

Dundee United, owed cash.

So there's three at least that would likely vote no off the bat. I would suspect the Celtic Board would vote Yes, but their fanbase would revolt.

The question at that point would be, what does newco Rangers do for the others to buy itself all the Yes votes it needs? At this point, Rangers are essentially the others clubs b*tch. Just about anything could be pushed through, a change in the voting structure, income distribution, points and financial penalties etc.

In another point, at work today there was the usual 'the other clubs need the 4 games a season against the Old Firm at home' chat. But that's a nonsense in itself isn't it. Teams in the bottom 6 face potentially only 2 home games against them a season as it is without going bust. Yet another bit of nonsense trotted out as an argument for Rangers staying put...

Wat Dabney

06-03-2012, 06:20 PM

The SPL rules are here (http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Articles%20as%20at%2015-Apr-10%20(CURRENT).pdf) if you want to read them. Looks like it needs 83% of a vote to let a newco back in. That's 10 votes from 12.

Barney McGrew

06-03-2012, 06:29 PM

The question at that point would be, what does newco Rangers do for the others to buy itself all the Yes votes it needs?

One thing - money. Without der hun in the SPL, the TV deal disappears in it's current form and so does a huge income stream for most clubs including swathes of weegies turning up twice a season.

Killie for instance have already given over half their stadium to the OF when they visit, so it's not a big jump to suggest they'd vote to keep them to keep the revenue.

There's quite a few other teams in the SPL in a bad way, and you can bet that chairmen of every club will already have done the sums to work out how much Rangers missing from the league would cost them. The answer will be that it will be a lot, and that will be enough to tip a couple into the 'yes' camp of getting them straight back in.

EuanH78

06-03-2012, 06:30 PM

The SPL rules are here (http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Articles%20as%20at%2015-Apr-10%20%28CURRENT%29.pdf) if you want to read them. Looks like it needs 83% of a vote to let a newco back in. That's 10 votes from 12.

If Rangers are liquidated does that not mean it needs to be 9 votes from 11 (same difference really I suppose).

Personally I would be finished with Scottish football, would become an exercise in futility IMO.

The_Todd

06-03-2012, 06:30 PM

The SPL rules are here (http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Articles%20as%20at%2015-Apr-10%20%28CURRENT%29.pdf) if you want to read them. Looks like it needs 83% of a vote to let a newco back in. That's 10 votes from 12.

Well, there won't be 12 clubs to vote there will only be 11 teams left. But still, it would take 10 out of 11 to break 83%.

Teams most likely to vote "no" would surely be Hearts, Dunfermline. Everyone else would probably vote "yes".

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 06:40 PM

essexhibee

06-03-2012, 06:41 PM

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DH8x_59EjZOs%26fea ture%3Dyoutube_gdata_player&feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=H8x_59EjZOs&gl=GB

How to explain debt to a hun. Hilarious. :greengrin

Hibi

06-03-2012, 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=Barney McGrew;3138020]One thing - money. Without der hun in the SPL, the TV deal disappears in it's current form and so does a huge income stream for most clubs including swathes of weegies turning up twice a season

People keep talking about the tv deal, but if they were to go then surely clubs outside Celtic would get a bigger slice of all be it a smaller pie. Would it be that big a difference?

Gates against the old firm aren't really that much bigger than against other teams, indeed this might be reflected in our free tickets for a game against the old firm!

EuanH78

06-03-2012, 06:44 PM

Does everyone think our own board would vote to let them back in?

If it comes to a vote, I certainly intend to be letting the board know my feelings on the matter. I would think we should all do the same...just to be sure :agree:

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 06:45 PM

Absolutely and I think I just heard Neil Doncaster on the radio saying regardless what happens they will be in the SPL next year.

I heard him. Now I'm paraphrasing here, and maybe I have it wrong, but I'm sure he said that Rangers can only surivive in ANY entity as an SPL club. If they get a CVA, they carry on as normal. If they're liquidated and form a newco, they apply for SPL admission. If the SPL board voted against the newco, they disappear off the face of the earth. Either way, they cannot join the SFL at all.

Have I got what he said right? It doesn't sound credible.

Hibi

06-03-2012, 06:51 PM

ScottB

06-03-2012, 06:57 PM

It's important to remember that the biggest single source of income for SPL clubs is ticket sales.

The fans outwith Ibrox seem almost to a man against the idea of them getting straight back in.

So the question is, is the TV money worth potentially losing sizeable chunks of the fanbases turning up? That's what the teams are going to have to figure out.

The_Todd

06-03-2012, 06:58 PM

Does everyone think our own board would vote to let them back in?

Sadly, I think they would.

HUTCHYHIBBY

06-03-2012, 06:58 PM

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 07:04 PM

There shouldn't be 1 vote from any club in the SPL to let them back in.

It should be a clear 11 votes to 0 on them staying out. No excuses for it not to be IMO.

Leithenhibby

06-03-2012, 07:05 PM

Sadly, I think they would.

Not so sure I would agree with that, think you will find that right now our board won't have to vote as "The Huns" are done. Well and truly ****** some would say.

So much going on at Ibrox that it's hard to even begin, at the beginning :wink:

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 07:10 PM

Perhaps some more sabre rattling.
However, I have said that while there is an agreement between the SPL and SFL they are separate.

If we had a SPL2 as was discussed before then Rangers could be demoted within the SPL structure.
Don't know the SPL can say they are placed elsewhere in another ruling body's structure.

Exactly. How can Doncaster say a newco couldn't apply to join the SFL, when he has no powers over the SFL?

The_Sauz

06-03-2012, 07:11 PM

Just got this off the BBC website:

Jack in Glasgow: "Your followers aren't getting it. The SPL are wanting Sky's TV money, so need Rangers, but will only allow a heavily sanctioned Rangers and will take off points and TV share."

I think the guy has a point, plus I think all this stalling with the administrators and the SPL (investigation), is to make sure Rangers finish 2nd and get their CL place.
All the funds they will receive for achieving this will help Rangers in the long run!

Golden Bear

06-03-2012, 07:17 PM

We'll be hearing the thoughts of Chairman Rod on the current state of Scottish football debate tonight at 10.35 on the Beeb

stokesmessiah

06-03-2012, 07:25 PM

MCameron

06-03-2012, 07:28 PM

Is there a website where a petition can be set up for Scottish football fans to sign to make their feelings known to the SPL/SFA/their own club's board and the media.

Would be interesting to see how many folk would actually sign up to say they wanted justice to be done and don't want Rangers to be readmitted to the SPL.

TornadoHibby

06-03-2012, 07:35 PM

Exactly. How can Doncaster say a newco couldn't apply to join the SFL, when he has no powers over the SFL?

Could be stated in the SFL rules? :dunno:

Barney McGrew

06-03-2012, 07:39 PM

People keep talking about the tv deal, but if they were to go then surely clubs outside Celtic would get a bigger slice of all be it a smaller pie. Would it be that big a difference?

Gates against the old firm aren't really that much bigger than against other teams, indeed this might be reflected in our free tickets for a game against the old firm!

The Sky deal is reliant on four OF games a season and it's pretty widely reported that they have a get out clause from the current deal if they don't get them. If Sky wanted to cover the SPL without Rangers there it would be a much, much smaller payment. It sticks in my throat as much as anyones, but without them the money available via any negotiated TV deal would be pathetic. There is a market for people to watch the OF, there isn't one for Killie v St Johnstone on a Monday night.

Gates against the OF might not seem that much bigger, but for us there's 3800 people paying £28 a ticket in the South Stand each time we play them. That's over £200k in lost ticket revenue alone that won't be replaced by 200 odd fans from Ross County or the likes rolling up at ER. For other teams with a lower average attendance, it's an even bigger percentage of what they get.

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 07:43 PM

The Sky deal is reliant on four OF games a season and it's pretty widely reported that they have a get out clause from the current deal if they don't get them. If Sky wanted to cover the SPL without Rangers there it would be a much, much smaller payment. It sticks in my throat as much as anyones, but without them the money available via any negotiated TV deal would be pathetic. There is a market for people to watch the OF, there isn't one for Killie v St Johnstone on a Monday night.

Gates against the OF might not seem that much bigger, but for us there's 3800 people paying £28 a ticket in the South Stand each time we play them. That's over £200k in lost ticket revenue alone that won't be replaced by 200 odd fans from Ross County or the likes rolling up at ER. For other teams with a lower average attendance, it's an even bigger percentage of what they get.

What sticks in my throat is looking back to the time when we first turned SKY down. Things could have turned out so much differently if we had taken the offer when we had the chance.

MCameron

06-03-2012, 07:44 PM

.............. that won't be replaced by 200 odd fans from Ross County or the likes rolling up at ER. For other teams with a lower average attendance, it's an even bigger percentage of what they get.

But it might be replaced by more Hibs fans attending - the ones who've disappeared cos there's no competition any more. A more competitive league with new or returning supporters excited at the prospect of challenging on a level playing field might just balance out - no?

Hibs Class

06-03-2012, 07:46 PM

I heard him. Now I'm paraphrasing here, and maybe I have it wrong, but I'm sure he said that Rangers can only surivive in ANY entity as an SPL club. If they get a CVA, they carry on as normal. If they're liquidated and form a newco, they apply for SPL admission. If the SPL board voted against the newco, they disappear off the face of the earth. Either way, they cannot join the SFL at all.

Have I got what he said right? It doesn't sound credible.

My take would be that if they disappeared altogether then potentially the SPL is maintained as a 12 team league by promotion from Div 1 and no relegation. That would then create a vacancy in the SFL which a newco huns could apply for, but so could Spartans, Gala Fairydean etc. and no guarantee they get in. Regardless of who does get that SFL place, huns are more likely to be reincarnated through buying and renaming/relocating an existing SFL team, in the same way as Airdrie did with Clydebank.

greenlex

06-03-2012, 07:47 PM

But it might be replaced by more Hibs fans attending - the ones who've disappeared cos there's no competition any more. A more competitive league with new or returning supporters excited at the prospect of challenging on a level playing field might just balance out - no?

The ones that are not going to buy season tickets because they are being asked to pay for credit terms or other ones?:confused:

EuanH78

06-03-2012, 07:50 PM

The Sky deal is reliant on four OF games a season and it's pretty widely reported that they have a get out clause from the current deal if they don't get them. If Sky wanted to cover the SPL without Rangers there it would be a much, much smaller payment. It sticks in my throat as much as anyones, but without them the money available via any negotiated TV deal would be pathetic. There is a market for people to watch the OF, there isn't one for Killie v St Johnstone on a Monday night.

Gates against the OF might not seem that much bigger, but for us there's 3800 people paying £28 a ticket in the South Stand each time we play them. That's over £200k in lost ticket revenue alone that won't be replaced by 200 odd fans from Ross County or the likes rolling up at ER. For other teams with a lower average attendance, it's an even bigger percentage of what they get.

You are probably right with your calculations, but it's the medicine thats making you sick IMO.

millarco

06-03-2012, 07:51 PM

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 07:54 PM

Could be stated in the SFL rules? :dunno:

I dunno, mate. But SPL or extinction for any newco sounds strange.

Barney McGrew

06-03-2012, 07:56 PM

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but if Rangers go bust and try to start again does it definitely go to a club vote? As per the SPL rules quoted before, and Doncaster on the radio earlier, is the share not automatically transferred onto the new company who would take up the SPL position? And the only ones potentially making a decision on that would be the SPL board? As in Topping, Doncaster, Riley (Celtc), Thompson (Dundee Utd), Weir (Motherwell) and Brown (St Johnstone). Or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

My understanding is that if they are sold on to a new owner from their current administration then yes, they would retain SPL membership.

If they go into liquidation then Rangers as it's current entity cease to exist and therefore lose their membership.

Cocaine&Caviar

06-03-2012, 07:59 PM

Would Broadfoot, Hutton, Ness, & Little really be out our price range?

Seveno

06-03-2012, 08:01 PM

Puhlease. Schola Regia, if you don't mind :na na:

Vivas Schola Regia !

greenlex

06-03-2012, 08:01 PM

Would Broadfoot, Hutton, Ness, & Little really be out our price range?
Depends how many Season tickets we shift.:greengrin

millarco

06-03-2012, 08:06 PM

My understanding is that if they are sold on to a new owner from their current administration then yes, they would retain SPL membership.

If they go into liquidation then Rangers as it's current entity cease to exist and therefore lose their membership.

14. If:- (i) a Member shall cease to be entitled to hold a Share; or (ii) a trustee in sequestration, manager, receiver or administrative receiver shall be appointed in respect of a Member or any property of a Member, or an administration order shall be made in respect of a Member or any property of a Member or an order shall be made or an 9 effective resolution passed for the winding up of a Member otherwise than for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation;

then that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such ther person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.

Again probably reading that wrong but if a phoenix company were formed could Duff and Phelps not transfer the share (effectively league membership) to the new company and they would then hold a place in the SPL?

bingo70

06-03-2012, 08:08 PM

HibeeSince85

06-03-2012, 08:11 PM

We'll be hearing the thoughts of Chairman Rod on the current state of Scottish football debate tonight at 10.35 on the Beeb

Is Petrie on this debate tonigh?t, was going to watch it anyway but I'm interested to see what he's got to say about this, a man of his impeccable financial ability the shenanigans at hunbrox will have his mind boggled:greengrin

The_Sauz

06-03-2012, 08:17 PM

Very doubtful Rangers are going to get European football next season. The administrators have already said its highly unlikely they will be out of admin before 31st March so no European licence.

They also said that rangers players would be shown the door last Wednesday, then Friday, and again this Monday, yet here we are on a Tuesday night, and only 2 players have volunteered to leave :confused:

sahib

06-03-2012, 08:24 PM

Is Petrie on this debate tonigh?t, was going to watch it anyway but I'm interested to see what he's got to say about this, a man of his impeccable financial ability the shenanigans at hunbrox will have his mind boggled:greengrin

Not convinced he is anything other than an unimaginative, tight-arse, who failed to support success and has squandered our strong position on the second rate. I worry about our own financial position.

Seveno

06-03-2012, 08:24 PM

One of Badger's boys?

So you had that slipper then ?

The_Sauz

06-03-2012, 08:26 PM

Could we not get an extra 200k/season if we were getting results in a league where the playing field was a bit more level?.. Two home games with 12k at home instead of 8k alone would cover that perceived loss..
If you had a good Aberdeen side, then they would fill the void left by Rangers :agree:

HibeeSince85

06-03-2012, 08:26 PM

Not convinced he is anything other than an unimaginative, tight-arse, who failed to support success and has squandered our strong position on the second rate. I worry about our own financial position.

Did you not see the smiley?

jdships

06-03-2012, 08:33 PM

They also said that rangers players would be shown the door last Wednesday, then Friday, and again this Monday, yet here we are on a Tuesday night, and only 2 players have volunteered to leave :confused:

" Duff & Phelps have been meeting the squad in a last-ditch attempt to agree on wage cuts as the club strives to make monthly savings of £1m.

Some players have agreed reduced terms to stay but with incentives.

These include free transfers in the summer or being allowed to leave for reasonable offers.

If agreement is reached, high earners could face wage cuts of 75%, middle earners 50% and other players 25%."

BBC SPORT

The players/agents aren't daft !!
Leave/walk away now and what are the chances of getting a club ? They have nothing to bargain with re wages.
Read what Wylde said in his interview
Better surely to say put get a " living wage" until the end of the season - £ 5000 a week although a lot less than £ 20000 is better than ZERO
They can then accept a free transfer , negotiate a decent signing on fee, probably worth six figures ( no transfer fee), and they are back earning mega bucks again :rolleyes:

Jim44

06-03-2012, 08:34 PM

See on Twitter Chris mclaughlin saying delay tonight is 2 or 3 high earners not agreeing to the pay cut.

I would have thought there would only be 2 or 3 'high earners', mcgregor, Davis and whittaker? Can we take from those three will be leaving?

Apparently McGregor's lawyer has issued a statement saying his client is not one of the three 'refusees'.

Keith_M

06-03-2012, 08:39 PM

Shamelessly stolen from comments section on TPPKATDR**

"As i was walking down the copeland rd
I met a total stranger
And he said to me are you going to see
The famous glasgow rangers.

I said im off to buy some bread
and litter for the kitten
They are no more
Just a tesco store
And the owners aff tae prison"

** The Paper Previously Known As The Daily Ranger :wink:

jgl07

06-03-2012, 08:40 PM

Well, there won't be 12 clubs to vote there will only be 11 teams left. But still, it would take 10 out of 11 to break 83%.

Teams most likely to vote "no" would surely be Hearts, Dunfermline. Everyone else would probably vote "yes".

Presumably the bottom club would vote 'no' (Dunfermline or Hibs?).

The other most likely to vote 'no' would come from those clubs opposing the 10-team SPL. Dundee United and Hearts spring to mind. Celtic are also a fair bet to vote 'no' given the opinions of their supporters and the opportunity they would have to bag some silverware. Aberdeen also have a lot of 'issues' with Rangers.

Even if the SPL heirachy want to retain Rangers, it could be a problem mustering the votes.

silverhibee

06-03-2012, 08:48 PM

See on Twitter Chris mclaughlin saying delay tonight is 2 or 3 high earners not agreeing to the pay cut.

I would have thought there would only be 2 or 3 'high earners', mcgregor, Davis and whittaker? Can we take from those three will be leaving?

Naismith and McCulloch big earners too and Lafferty will be on a good wage as well.

green glory

06-03-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote from the 'tache.

During tonight's BBC Scotland programme, Scottish Football: The Debate, Petrie said: "Scottish football needs successful clubs who are well-managed.

"There are a lot of clubs in the SPL who have taken their own share of pain and have budgets and who have adhered to their budgets.

"The thing that needs to be maintained right throughout is sporting integrity.

"We need to ensure that the competition is fair.

"Each club has its own budgets and its own resources. If you have a plan and can finance it then fine.

"The important thing is sporting integrity and we have to make sure that the competition is balanced and fair.

"We are going to see Rangers continue to play with a depleted squad against clubs who they played against earlier in the season when they had a stronger squad.

"We need to make sure the fixtures are fulfilled and it is a fair and balanced competition."

Hedging his bets publically, but the emphasis on sporting integrity is encouraging. Let's hope he speaks for us all when the time comes.

Hibs Class

06-03-2012, 08:59 PM

So you had that slipper then ?

Many times - did me no harm. :greengrin

scoopyboy

06-03-2012, 09:05 PM

Apparently McGregor's lawyer has issued a statement saying his client is not one of the three 'refusees'.

Not read through all the pages but Scoopyboy understands Naismith and Lafferty are two of the three.

Don't know the third but its not McGregor.

Sorry if already posted.

Westie1875

06-03-2012, 09:09 PM

Not read through all the pages but Scoopyboy understands Naismith and Lafferty are two of the three.

Don't know the third but its not McGregor.

Sorry if already posted.

Whittaker perhaps?

Hibercelona

06-03-2012, 09:12 PM

Not read through all the pages but Scoopyboy understands Naismith and Lafferty are two of the three.

Don't know the third but its not McGregor.

Sorry if already posted.

I'm thinking maybe Broadfoot.

Keith_M

06-03-2012, 09:20 PM

The Herald is saying that the players' proposal was to have reduced wages for one month only, then go back to full wages from the following month

They don't seem to get the "need to save 1M every month" issue, do they.

sahib

06-03-2012, 09:26 PM

Did you not see the smiley?

Sorry I missed that. I was being at bit too harsh, anyway. I suppose we could have done worse.

Westie1875

06-03-2012, 09:27 PM

Why don't they just start sacking them, surely this is part of the administrators job?

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 09:31 PM

green glory

06-03-2012, 09:37 PM

QMU-1875

06-03-2012, 09:41 PM

does anyone have a link to the scottish football debate on bbc 1 just now? cant watch it on my tv need to on the laptop though.

FranckSuzy

06-03-2012, 09:47 PM

Rod hit the nail on the head there :agree:

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 09:47 PM

Okay I'm back.

I'm more than a little concerned that so many fellow netters seem to have tasted the same corporal punishment from the same Latin teacher as me. There is a clear pattern here.

In other news, nobody seems to have mentioned the interview with our own Amanda Jones earlier this evening. What she said was very enlightening. I was driving at the time, so couldn't write it all down, but from memory she was saying:-

1. employment law doesn't stop just because of administration. That's a fundamental issue.

2. as the admins have said, they can't force wage cuts on players.

3. as the players are on fixed term contracts, it is unlikely that there will be any redundancy provisions in there.

4. as a result of 3, players would be entitled to sue for what is due on the remaining portion of their contract, if they were simply told to leave.

5. notwithstanding 4, it would be normal to have a negotiated settlement in these situations.

She also sympathised with the job of the admins. Being a football person, she understands the issues. The undercurrent was, if I understood her right, that the admins are doing this bit by the book.

I have dealt with Amanda a couple of times, and she knows her stuff.

NORTHERNHIBBY

06-03-2012, 09:48 PM

Hearing Jim, James, Traynor saying that the SPL needs a strong Old Firm or the game won't thrive. IIRC the last time we had a situation where we had a weak Old Firm, both Aberdeen and Dundee Utd nearly won the European Cup.

Hibby70

06-03-2012, 09:49 PM

Well I'm certainly happy with Rods opening statement. Asked whether Scottish football needs a strong Rangers and basically responded that Not if they are cheating bar stewards

Coco Bryce

06-03-2012, 09:50 PM

Spot on. Someone let this slip on a radio show last week.

Not read through all the pages but Scoopyboy understands Naismith and Lafferty are two of the three.

Don't know the third but its not McGregor.

Sorry if already posted.

Barney McGrew

06-03-2012, 09:51 PM

Rod hit the nail on the head there

Well I'm certainly happy with Rods opening statement. Asked whether Scottish football needs a strong Rangers and basically responded that Not if they are cheating bar stewards

:agree:

I think it's pretty clear what the official Hibs view is going to be on this :greengrin

Bishop Hibee

06-03-2012, 09:53 PM

Just had a listen again to tonight's Sportsound, and they are one hundred per cent clear about the consequences of liquidation: It's newco in the SPL or extinct. No SFL option. Wee Chick trying to get his words out through the tears. Had to chuckle when he reformed to Rangers as Govan United.

Forget any prospect off the accounts being made available before 31st March or any interested buyers coming forward before the 16th.

If the huns are in the SPL debt free and points deduction-free next season then i'll not be renewing my ST. What would be the point going back as it would be conceding one rule for the OF and one for every other team in Scotland. Rangers could simply do the same thing in 10 years time. The thought of the away end at ER filled with bluenoses belting out their triumphalist bile after starting season 12/13 on a level playing field with Hibs is sickening. Stand firm Petrie, huns out!

blaikie

06-03-2012, 10:02 PM

Rod looks really uncomfortable between those yam fuds, poor man hope he's on a decent wage for this crap.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 10:12 PM

From the BBC:-

There is a statement by administrator David Whitehouse on the Rangers website: "Today has been a very frustrating day. Earlier in the day, we believed we had agreed in principle a basis of cost-cutting measures with the players accepting substantial pay cuts and we are very grateful for their efforts in reaching that point.

"Sadly this evening we have been unable to reach agreement on the personal conditions sought by the advisors to the players in respect of those wage cuts.

"There is still some hope these issues can be resolved first thing in the morning but it is extremely disappointing we haven't been able to get there tonight."

johnbc70

06-03-2012, 10:13 PM

Why don't they just start sacking them, surely this is part of the administrators job?

Agreed, say enough is enough and if you cannot make a decision then we will make the decision for you. Is that not why an admin is appointed to make difficult decisions.

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 10:15 PM

Agreed, say enough is enough and if you cannot make a decision then we will make the decision for you. Is that not why an admin is appointed to make difficult decisions.

They can't just do that. Read my earlier post about Amanda Jones' opinion.

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 10:21 PM

They can't just do that. Read my earlier post about Amanda Jones' opinion.

So they can't make compulsary redundencies without risk of being sued for remainder of contract? What about the mass redundencies that have followed previous examples of administration?

CropleyWasGod

06-03-2012, 10:25 PM

So they can't make compulsary redundencies without risk of being sued for remainder of contract? What about the mass redundencies that have followed previous examples of administration?

I don't know about them, because I didn't follow them that closely. However, although early redundancies were made at Livi and Motherwell, that doesn't mean that legal action didn't follow. Those situations weren't played out under the scrutiny that the Rangers one is.

Hibernia&Alba

06-03-2012, 10:30 PM

I don't know about them, because I didn't follow them that closely. However, although early redundancies were made at Livi and Motherwell, that doesn't mean that legal action didn't follow. Those situations weren't played out under the scrutiny that the Rangers one is.

They need to cut £4.5 million from the budget in order to get through the season. If they can't come to a voluntary agreement with the players and are too afraid to make redundancies, how are they meant to keep the club alive? What can they do exactly?