Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[whiskyhibby]

Celtic fans to boycott Rugby Park seemingly.

So should we..........

[weecounty hibby]

I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland

[CropleyWasGod]

The bigger problem is Green's business plan will not have allowed for 3 years in the wilderness of Scottish Football. A few more twists and turns in this yet. Wouldn't surprise me if the NewHuns decided just not to play at all, take their ball home and sulk :greengrin

But if he owns the property, he just sells it. :greengrin

[Andy74]

Hibs statement tomorrow please. Let's stop this dead now!

[CMac1988]

I love the post stating "I'm fed up of hearing this word 'integrity'"
Interesting twist still think the fudge SPL2 is the next "attempt" to soften the blow for them. Unfair on the hardworking honest clubs trying to do the right thing like Falkirk in the SFL who have had more than their fair share of knock backs

I'm hopeful that if the SFA were too pander to Rangers in the fom of an SPL 2 that FIFA/UEFA would step in. If not then hopefully SPL and SFL clubs supporters will make as much noise as they are now.

Also like this little sentence on the first page; "Lol this isnt news no1 will vote us in we are the most hated team for our success."

Then this in response to an Dundee UTD supporter; "We probably would have sympathy, 'cause you don't matter. You're all so full of hate you can't see it. Ta ta." The irony considering some of the vile posted in that thread is beyond belief.

p.s. I'm all for league restructuring etc. but not when it is rushed and forced through in an effort to help keep Rangerson the fringe of top tier football in Scotland.

[Onion]

Feeling a bit sorry for Killie fans here.

Their club management are on the verge of folding them if SPL fans follow up on abandoning them.

I'm pretty sure their fans will all be 95% against like all others.

Well, that would would be the perfect storm - no Huns , no home fans and no away fans at Killie home matches. Hope their Board enjoy counting their reduced TV money while watching their team play in an empty stadium. And think of the loss in pie revenue :greengrin

[LancashireHibby]

I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland
Celtic would have a LOT more to lose than the rest of us though if their fans boycotted their own club if Celtic vote yes (and, in fairness, their fans have been protagonists of the boycott idea so would be hugely hypocritical and embarrassing for them to go against their own statements).

[blackpoolhibs]

I wouldn't be surprised if Killie see the lie of the land and eventually vote no as well in the hope of heading of boycotts by away fans.

Kilmarnock have nailed their colours to the mast, they would vote them back. It seems now to me, they probably wont need a vote, and their chairman will slide in with the rest pretending he was going to vote that way.

**** Kilmarnock, i'd let them suffer twice. I hope the non rangers clubs boycott them, their fans boycott them and they die along with the huns.

[Cabbage East]

Is there not some rule that states applicants for the SFL have to submit 3 years of accounts or will they just ignore this rule in Rangers case, is it a given that Newco will be accepted into SFL?


Yes but expect some rule bending. It would be fine with me if the huns ended up in the 3rd as long as it wasn't at the expense of a strong non-league application. I think we should send a few cabbage to support the Huns opposition on any day that we're not playing.

[HibbySpurs]

As much as it pains me to say it but well done Mad Vlad:top marks

His rant has spurred Dundee Utd to come out publicly as well:aok:

Lets hope that this is the begining of an "avalanche" of SPL clubs coming out and saying no,no,no.....

if 9 or 10 publicly state their intent the only "decent" thing left for der hun to do is fall on their sword and resign the oldco from the SPL whist the newco withdraws it's application for membrship and apply to the SFL.

I know the above wont happen but thats what honourable folks would do, which is of course why it wont happen :faf:

[Bostonhibby]

I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland

:agree: two cheeks of the same arse in my view, wouldnae be surprised. but interested to see how the celtc fans would view their board keeping Her Maj's newco, team 12 or whatever they are subsequently called going.

[Onion]

I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland

That makes logical sense, but when you think of the scale of cheating that Der Hun has been accused of and the huge impact this had had on Celtic over the last 15 years.... the need to punish them properly will be overwhelming. IMHO Celtic will stick it to the Cheats with relish :greengrin

[SRHibs]

I think it's going to be 'No', and by a landslide too. I mean, it would be senseless for any club to vote otherwise now that so many clubs are coming forward and nailing their colours to the mast.

[stokesmessiah]

Quite happy that both Hearts & Utd have come out and shown their cards early and hopefully a few more will now too.

Feel sorry for Killie fans though, not sure it is their intention to have a newco straight back in. Been on quite a few forums tonight and the general consensus is that they are unhappy with MJ coming out in support.

Also, its quite frightening that so many fans want to act like the club we are all collectively working towards ousting. IMO it sounds very hunnish to be actively promoting trying to kill off a club because we don't agree with their opinion (well their chairmans opinion).

It's looking decidedly like Sevco/Dead Huns are finally going to get their comeuppance and it is going to leave a financial gap in the SPL, i think the teams that are left in the SPL next season need to really sit down and work on the product, that for me includes making all the teams in it stronger and more value for money...incl Killie.

[JohnStephens91]

Most of what Vlad said today is true, I think he didn't mean to come across as intelligent as that but I can't slander him for coming out and finally telling the truth of how the Yams will vote. I know we are all still hurting and haunted by that final, but this is an issue the clubs and the fans of Hibs and Hearts need to stand side by side on, along with the fans of all other SPL clubs who will be voting no. Together we can achieve this. Well done Vlad for being the first to publicly say he will vote no, followed by Thompson. Hopefully Petrie is next, followed by Milne and Lawwell along with Cameron up in the Highlands.

[LancashireHibby]

Also, its quite frightening that so many fans want to act like the club we are all collectively working towards ousting. IMO it sounds very hunnish to be actively promoting trying to kill off a club because we don't agree with their opinion (well their chairmans opinion).

It's looking decidedly like Sevco/Dead Huns are finally going to get their comeuppance and it is going to leave a financial gap in the SPL, i think the teams that are left in the SPL next season need to really sit down and work on the product, that for me includes making all the teams in it stronger and more value for money...incl Killie.
To me, it's quite a simple solution - you're either with us, or you're not. Those that vote 'no' will certainly see an increase in away support. Any clubs that votes yes are effectively endorsing the cheating that Rangers have got away with over such a substantial period of time and as such should face consequences of their own.

[Onion]

Quite happy that both Hearts & Utd have come out and shown their cards early and hopefully a few more will now too.

Feel sorry for Killie fans though, not sure it is their intention to have a newco straight back in. Been on quite a few forums tonight and the general consensus is that they are unhappy with MJ coming out in support.

Also, its quite frightening that so many fans want to act like the club we are all collectively working towards ousting. IMO it sounds very hunnish to be actively promoting trying to kill off a club because we don't agree with their opinion (well their chairmans opinion).

It's looking decidedly like Sevco/Dead Huns are finally going to get their comeuppance and it is going to leave a financial gap in the SPL, i think the teams that are left in the SPL next season need to really sit down and work on the product, that for me includes making all the teams in it stronger and more value for money...incl Killie.

:agree: nothing to do with Killie fans who deserve our support, but their Board & Manager have danced with the Devil and need to suffer the consequences. Assuming the vote goes against the Huns, the right thing would be for Killie fans to oust their Board for putting their club in an impossible position. Gerald Ratner moment :greengrin

[Speedy]

Saw this on facebook, made me laugh

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538593_10151062341196788_2009361811_n.jpg

[McD]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.

[LancashireHibby]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.
In many ways, that's where the real fight begins and I've got renewed faith in those in charge that they will see what a golden opportunity this is to push for far more equality in the SPL.

[Spike Mandela]

The only certain Yes votes now are Kilmarnock and Ross County. Even Green might vote No if he doesn't have the dosh to pay SPl wages. :cb

Have Ross County suggested they will vote yes? I would have thought it would be to their advantage to have a 1st division club promoted and increase thei chance of staying in the SPL.

[LancashireHibby]

Have Ross County suggested they will vote yes? I would have thought it would be to their advantage to have a 1st division club promoted and increase thei chance of staying in the SPL.
Good thinking, that's definitely one angle I'd not seen - most are suggesting they'd vote 'yes' to make sure they get the cash from the travelling Huns.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Folks with crystal balls walk funny... ;)

I dont think we can confidently predict away gates going up just yet.
A lot of the promises of many will either materialise or not and economic factors may become the overriding ones. An away trip to some far flung locatiOn on a Wednesday night in Novermber may lose it's appeal as the season progresses.
That said I hope for the future of Scottish football the positives overcome the negatives.

[joe breezy]

I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland

Celtic fans will be boycotting Celtic - not sure how that will help crowds

[ballengeich]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.

It's absolutely vital that these issues should be addressed. The SPL has increased the differential between the income of the Bigot Bros and the other top division teams. If Rangers aren't in the top league for a year (or more) it will cause problems, but it also gives opportunities to shape a better future for Scottish football. If the opportunity isn't taken we might as well vote them back in with no further sanctions.

[matty_f]

The implications of an SPL minus Rangers are massive. If in the short term the non-OF teams take a financial hit, long term everything changes.
The 11-1 OF veto goes out the window meaning that the league set up becomes much more democratic. The tight grip that the OF have had over the SPL is no more.
The biggest game in the Scottish calendar is the Edinburgh derby. Celtic will undoubtedly secure top spot for next season but it's a lead that can slowly but surely be eroded as other clubs benefit from an increased chance of European football and the benefit of a more even handed approach to the tv money distribution.
rangers' death could quite conceivably be the thing that ultimately saves Scottish football.

I think so long as they don't come straight back into the SPL then talks of boycott should stop. Once out of the top flight there is very little that the SPL clubs can do to influence what happens to them, they're not our problem.


Crucially, though, we as supporters must stand by our teams across the land and ensure that our own clubs don't suffer for making the right decisions. We need as many people back at Easter Road in great numbers than in recent history to not only protect the club but to ensure we emerge stronger.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.
I think this is the key point that shouldn't be lost in the fog of what seems like war (even if it's not quite Civil war). Abolishing the skewed voting system should be a priority so it holds us back no longer

[Jim44]

Today's news re. Hearts and D. United voting against Rangers is a bit of a watershed. Until today, no club has openly declared it's cards and Rangers, possibly in optimism rather than realism, thought that they might survive in the SPL. With this in mind they were making great shows of defiance, bravado and martyrdom by saying that, if rejected, it would be to Div.3 and definitely not to Div.1. Lo and behold, with a 'no' vote looking more and more likely, the snivelling pigs are having second thoughts and are beginning to call for a drop to Div.1. This however if I am correct is not possible as they would have to be relegated to Div.1. Application to join the SFL would only relate to Div.3.

[renato]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.

There's another angle to this too.

Celtc could be in a difficult spot now - vote "no" and they could lose out big style re distribution of TV monies etc as 11-1 is no longer a barrier to change. Vote "yes" and their fans will be in uproar with boycotts, protests etc disrupting their season.

Lovely jubly :-)

[21.05.2016]

There's another angle to this too.

Celtc could be in a difficult spot now - vote "no" and they could lose out big style re distribution of TV monies etc as 11-1 is no longer a barrier to change. Vote "yes" and their fans will be in uproar with boycotts, protests etc disrupting their season.

Lovely jubly :-)

:agree:

[GreenCastle]

If, a big if, rangers in whatever form they are/will be do NOT get accepted to the SPL, and A N Other club (probably Dundee) are parachuted in to keep 12 teams.....

What are the chances of the likes of Petrie, United's Thomson, Milne from Aberdeen, or any of the other chairmen looking to start throwing proposals at the SPL meetings to get the money distribution, voting systems etc changed for the mutual benefit of the non Glasgow teams, bearing in mind that the biggest hurdle (11-1 vote) would be much less of an issue (if one at all) now that the OF wouldn't be there to only accept situations that suit them and veto everything else?

If they did, this could safeguard against a future return of Rangers to the SPL, so that if/when rangers get back, the money etc is distributed in a much fairer manner, stopping the OF from raking in the lion's share.

:aok:

[oxymoron]

Today's news re. Hearts and D. United voting against Rangers is a bit of a watershed. Until today, no club has openly declared it's cards and Rangers, possibly in optimism rather than realism, thought that they might survive in the SPL. With this in mind they were making great shows of defiance, bravado and martyrdom by saying that, if rejected, it would be to Div.3 and definitely not to Div.1. Lo and behold, with a 'no' vote looking more and more likely, the snivelling pigs are having second thoughts and are beginning to call for a drop to Div.1. This however if I am correct is not possible as they would have to be relegated to Div.1. Application to join the SFL would only relate to Div.3.

As I read the situation, the 'plan' (ie bartering) was for them to be re-voted back in, but with a sanction which then immediately relegated them - hence to the first division, rather than if excluded by the SPL, to have to re-apply to the SFL and there being no option but to start at the bottom ie the third div. I presume also in that scenario the tricky situation with Dunf or Dundee is fixed as effectively Dunf are not relegated at all - Sevco are!

Todays revelations seems the beginning of a kybosh on that wee cunning plan.

...just gets better and better.

[green glory]

Bearing in mind Sevco 5088 is just a property holding company and not a football club, there are various criteria they don't meet, even for an application to 3rd division. Youth development programme/3 years audited accounts etc etc.

No revenue and the above could see them in administration by the end of July.

Even in oblivion will they still claim their history is intact?

Hell awaits.

[stokesmessiah]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on how tv money should be distributed when the dust settles on this????

I am sure someone put the current split and values up on this thread before, anyone have them to hand?

[stokesmessiah]

Just read a post on P&B and someone mentioned something i had forgotten, was part of Greens proposal conditional on them being allowed to continue in the normal competitions i.e. the SPL?? I know that was part of the CVA proposal though so does that render it obsolete now?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Jim spence says he'll be Announcing another club on the radio tomorrow morning, 8.20am, that is voting no

[stokesmessiah]

Jim spence says he'll be Announcing another club on the radio tomorrow morning, 8.20am, that is voting no

:thumbsup:

[Lungo--Drom]

Onion well said, this is indeed what should happen. Perhaps the people behind the SPL online census thing could get involved in this? You are so right, they should have a Nuremburg style trial and everyone who did wrong or who knowingly aided, abetted or permitted someone else to do wrong should be named and shamed at the very least.


The SFA & SPL Exec will be having crisis meetings tomorrow to discuss Plan F on how to get the Huns out of this mess.

Looks like the clubs have decided to take a stand for the "good of the game" - something which our football authorities should have done months ago instead of cowering away in the corners hoping the problem would just go away. Once this is all over and the Huns are in the 3rd Div, I'd like to see a summary of the behaviour/positions taken by each and every journo, SFA/SPL Exec, politician so there is no misunderstanding about who supported self-interest, bigotry and cheating ... over sport and fair play. Name and shame them :greengrin

[Lungo--Drom]

Sadly I agree. Celtic have the biggest to lose as the biggest away support they must get at Parkhead is the Huns. I don't know how that'll go with the supporters groups though?


I honestly think celtic will let them back in. Lawell has said they will do what is best for celtic. In my opinion that means having der hun in the spl. If they are not there celtics crowds would drop, no huns to play and probably still not much competition from the rest = lower crowds.
Clubs like Hibs will lose much much less fans than celtic so it would have less impact on us if they were in div3.
Remember celtic and rangers are just different subsidiaries of the same company and need each other more than the rest of us need them. Why do you think they have to have the same sponsors and the same strategy for the last few years of trying to get out of Scotland

[Prof. Shaggy]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on how tv money should be distributed when the dust settles on this????



Each club that takes part is entitled to an equal share of the revenue generated by the product.
Therefore 8.33% per club taking part in SPL.

Radical, huh?

[Lungo--Drom]

Stokesy I think this is basically what Vlad was saying too. He might be a mad Lithuanian but in this instance he was correct in the basic points he was making. I'm still not sure what a "media aborigine" is though?


Quite happy that both Hearts & Utd have come out and shown their cards early and hopefully a few more will now too.

Feel sorry for Killie fans though, not sure it is their intention to have a newco straight back in. Been on quite a few forums tonight and the general consensus is that they are unhappy with MJ coming out in support.

Also, its quite frightening that so many fans want to act like the club we are all collectively working towards ousting. IMO it sounds very hunnish to be actively promoting trying to kill off a club because we don't agree with their opinion (well their chairmans opinion).

It's looking decidedly like Sevco/Dead Huns are finally going to get their comeuppance and it is going to leave a financial gap in the SPL, i think the teams that are left in the SPL next season need to really sit down and work on the product, that for me includes making all the teams in it stronger and more value for money...incl Killie.

[greenginger]

Stokesy I think this is basically what Vlad was saying too. He might be a mad Lithuanian but in this instance he was correct in the basic points he was making. I'm still not sure what a "media aborigine" is though?

Aborigine can mean original or primitive so may'be he means the old fashioned media ie. newspapers and TV as opposed to internet and other social media as the modern communication mode.

Of course he might just be bonkers. :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

Tony McKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)‏ (McKelvie&#8207)@ TonyMcKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)It's all over for Sevco in the SPL. Green will withdraw his application to the SPL shortly, and apply to SFL instead. There will be no vote.

:thumbsup:

[stokesmessiah]

Tony McKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)‏ (McKelvie&#8207)@ TonyMcKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)It's all over for Sevco in the SPL. Green will withdraw his application to the SPL shortly, and apply to SFL instead. There will be no vote.

[Minder]

Well Green is planning for next season where ever that may be - they have hired Jimmy Carr for hospitality.

[Col2]

Well Green is planning for next season where ever that may be - they have hired Jimmy Carr for hospitality.

And tax advice

[brydekirk]

Queues should come when they actually vote no

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

Agree, not before the vote.

[brydekirk]

I wouldn't be surprised if Killie see the lie of the land and eventually vote no as well in the hope of heading of boycotts by away fans.

They can go tae, let dunfy & dundee back up.

[brydekirk]

:agree: two cheeks of the same arse in my view, wouldnae be surprised. but interested to see how the celtc fans would view their board keeping Her Maj's newco, team 12 or whatever they are subsequently called going.

Only cause they know how weak they will be.

[Northernhibee]

Tony McKelvie‏@ TonyMcKelvieIt's all over for Sevco in the SPL. Green will withdraw his application to the SPL shortly, and apply to SFL instead. There will be no vote.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup::party::giruy::lolrangers::applause::che ers::partyhibb:woohoo::blowing

No amount of smilies can convey how brilliant that would be.

Would they need a vote to be allowed into division 3?

[jgl07]

And tax advice

If Charles Green needs advice on tax dodging he will 'keep it in the family' and ask Phillip Green.

[stoobs]

Just a wee thought on Killie's chairman. I've heard over the years that quite a few fans travel through from Killie every week to see the mighty Rangers play. Fans that should really be walking down the road to Rugby Park. So if Rangers die, Killie and their chairman are going to be surrounded by people with no team to support who hate every team who voted them into oblivion.

In steps Kilmarnock, playing in blue, playing nearby and were Rangers friendly in the vote. They even beat Celtic in a cup last season! Killie have been struggling for a while now with crowd numbers, and this could be a way of getting a couple more season tickets in. Sales are already up 5% (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18533267) and so maybe he's not so daft after all... If he can convince a fraction of their support to start following Killie, he's covered his losses.



On another note, is there any idea/consensus on whether Rangers FC is just an asset owned by a company able to be freely sold between companies. Or is it company itself, and thus when it was liquidated, its the club liquidated, rather than the holding company. I've pretty much followed everything in this epic thread so far, but I still can't get my head around that!

[McHibby]

Tony McKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)‏ (McKelvie&#8207)@ TonyMcKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)It's all over for Sevco in the SPL. Green will withdraw his application to the SPL shortly, and apply to SFL instead. There will be no vote.

Who is Tony McKelvie, is he usually in the know about these things?
I really hope this is true. Although it would be very satisfying if the rest of the SPL gave them two fingers, there's no absolute certainty that they wont get voted in.

[joe breezy]

Just a wee thought on Killie's chairman. I've heard over the years that quite a few fans travel through from Killie every week to see the mighty Rangers play. Fans that should really be walking down the road to Rugby Park. So if Rangers die, Killie and their chairman are going to be surrounded by people with no team to support who hate every team who voted them into oblivion.

In steps Kilmarnock, playing in blue, playing nearby and were Rangers friendly in the vote. They even beat Celtic in a cup last season! Killie have been struggling for a while now with crowd numbers, and this could be a way of getting a couple more season tickets in. Sales are already up 5% (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18533267) and so maybe he's not so daft after all... If he can convince a fraction of their support to start following Killie, he's covered his losses.



On another note, is there any idea/consensus on whether Rangers FC is just an asset owned by a company able to be freely sold between companies. Or is it company itself, and thus when it was liquidated, its the club liquidated, rather than the holding company. I've pretty much followed everything in this epic thread so far, but I still can't get my head around that!

I worked for an Ayrshire company once and 2 guys there were Rangers / Killie fans.

That was a long time ago though. The rest of the Ayrshire guys were rabid Huns, one of whom said he'd never go back when they signed Maurice Johnston

[Lucius Apuleius]

Just a wee thought on Killie's chairman. I've heard over the years that quite a few fans travel through from Killie every week to see the mighty Rangers play. Fans that should really be walking down the road to Rugby Park. So if Rangers die, Killie and their chairman are going to be surrounded by people with no team to support who hate every team who voted them into oblivion.

In steps Kilmarnock, playing in blue, playing nearby and were Rangers friendly in the vote. They even beat Celtic in a cup last season! Killie have been struggling for a while now with crowd numbers, and this could be a way of getting a couple more season tickets in. Sales are already up 5% (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18533267) and so maybe he's not so daft after all... If he can convince a fraction of their support to start following Killie, he's covered his losses.



On another note, is there any idea/consensus on whether Rangers FC is just an asset owned by a company able to be freely sold between companies. Or is it company itself, and thus when it was liquidated, its the club liquidated, rather than the holding company. I've pretty much followed everything in this epic thread so far, but I still can't get my head around that!

Good point. Also would not be difficult, even for the brain dead, knuckle dragging, uneducated neanderthals to change a letter in their most sung song and just go with the Billy Boys???

[IWasThere2016]

Jim spence says he'll be Announcing another club on the radio tomorrow morning, 8.20am, that is voting no

The no votes will continue - http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4387832/SPL-rivals-ready-to-vote-against-newco.html

Rumours rife up here late yesterday that Dundee willl be promoted very soon.

[TrickyNicky]

:bye: cheery bye huns, cheery bye !

[marinello59]

The no votes will continue - http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4387832/SPL-rivals-ready-to-vote-against-newco.html

Rumours rife up here late yesterday that Dundee willl be promoted very soon.

Surely Dundee were always going to be promoted if/when Rangers get turfed out of the SPL? That was my understanding of the rules, Dunfermline were relegated and that has to stand.

[scoopyboy]

Tony McKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)‏ (McKelvie&#8207)@ TonyMcKelvie (McKelvie&#8207)It's all over for Sevco in the SPL. Green will withdraw his application to the SPL shortly, and apply to SFL instead. There will be no vote.

That could be the get out of jail card to SPL clubs who aren't prepared to publically state their intention to vote no.

A good wee fence sitter for Celtic and Killie IMO.

[McSwanky]

Hope Spartans, Cove Rangers etc are preparing their applications to the SFL as we speak...

[marinello59]

Hope Spartans, Cove Rangers etc are preparing their applications to the SFL as we speak...

:agree:

[MSK]

Hope Spartans, Cove Rangers etc are preparing their applications to the SFL as we speak...:agree:

[Jack]

Each club that takes part is entitled to an equal share of the revenue generated by the product.
Therefore 8.33% per club taking part in SPL.

Radical, huh?

Include an amount for each match, paid to the home club.

[Sylar]

The no votes will continue - http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4387832/SPL-rivals-ready-to-vote-against-newco.html

Rumours rife up here late yesterday that Dundee willl be promoted very soon.

I doubt it will be Dundee.

The precedent has already been set by the SPL with the stadium issues and league reconstruction in the past, that saviour from relegation rather than deferring to the next highest finisher in Div 1 is the method for plugging any gap.

The fixtures would also need to effectively be rearranged to accommodate Dundee as there are around 10 clashes with Dundee Utd IIRC. Installing Dunfermline back into the SPL would be the easiest way to make up the difference.

Plus, Dundee are almost equally as morally bankrupt as Rangers, having screwed over creditors on 2 occasions - if they're going to get back into the SPL, it should be on footballing merit - they don't deserve to benefit from the demise of a club who did the same as them.

[Jim44]

That could be the get out of jail card to SPL clubs who aren't prepared to publically state their intention to vote no.

A good wee fence sitter for Celtic and Killie IMO.


I think Killie has played it's cards and will be on the huns 'good guys' list for future reference. Ironically and despite the fact Lawwell would possibly have gone against the wishes of the Celtic support, they will avoid the hit list if there is no vote.

[steakbake]

Hope Spartans, Cove Rangers etc are preparing their applications to the SFL as we speak...

I think there will be a fix which will see S5088 FC playing in the First or an SPL2 arrangement.

[truehibernian]

I think there will be a fix which will see S5088 FC playing in the First or an SPL2 arrangement.

That's what I have thought all along steakbake......what better way, publicity and mediawise, to get the concept off the ground and worthy of TV money.

[Saorsa]

That could be the get out of jail card to SPL clubs who aren't prepared to publically state their intention to vote no.

A good wee fence sitter for Celtic and Killie IMO.I would still boycott there, getting out of jail or changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side disnae IMO equate tae making a decision tae dae the right thing. Michael Johnston made his position quite clear as a supporter of newco hun, he was quite prepared tae dae the wrong thing and put money before sporting imtegrity and the good of the game..

[ScottB]

I can't see an SPL2 happening.

All SFL clubs would vote on it, why would the 20 clubs below this potential new league vote to give up on making money off Rangers, and in some cases to give up a promotion? No chance.

[mayo hibee]

Jim Spence was told he was talking rubbish last week when he stated on the BBC Newsnight show that the other clubs wouldn't vote Sevco back into the SPL. Impossible, the others told him, the other clubs would never be that stupid. I get the impression that he's now quite enjoying announcing the no votes one by one.

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=The Story So Far...;3271240]I doubt it will be Dundee.

The precedent has already been set by the SPL with the stadium issues and league reconstruction in the past, that saviour from relegation rather than deferring to the next highest finisher in Div 1 is the method for plugging any gap.

The fixtures would also need to effectively be rearranged to accommodate Dundee as there are around 10 clashes with Dundee Utd IIRC. Installing Dunfermline back into the SPL would be the easiest way to make up the difference.

Plus, Dundee are almost equally as morally bankrupt as Rangers, having screwed over creditors on 2 occasions - if they're going to get back into the SPL, it shou,ld be on footballing merit - they don't deserve to benefit from the demise of a club who did the same as them.[/Q
UOTE]



Dunfermline have already sold more season tickets than last season., they do not want to be in SPL

[Hibs7]

Hearts, Dundee Utd, Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, ICT, Celtic will all vote no, bye bye Rangers.:-)

[stokesmessiah]

I know that over the last 5 months there has been a lot of information come out about the situation at Ibrox. At times the sheer volume has been too much too compute and a lot of misleading misinformation has come out that has led some of us to believe that the situation over there was down to greed, ego's and arrogance. Fortunately some kind Sevco fan has decided to explain it properly so as to keep us on the straight and narrow, turns out it wasnt actually their fault at all...http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223488

[lapsedhibee]

Hope Spartans, Cove Rangers etc are preparing their applications to the SFL as we speak...

I'd prefer to hear about what the competition's like for getting in to the West of Scotland League.

[Saorsa]

I know that over the last 5 months there has been a lot of information come out about the situation at Ibrox. At times the sheer volume has been too much too compute and a lot of misleading misinformation has come out that has led some of us to believe that the situation over there was down to greed, ego's and arrogance. Fortunately some kind Sevco fan has decided to explain it properly so as to keep us on the straight and narrow, turns out it wasnt actually their fault at all...http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223488:hilarious

[down-the-slope]

Feeling a bit sorry for Killie fans here.

Their club management are on the verge of folding them if SPL fans follow up on abandoning them.

I'm pretty sure their fans will all be 95% against like all others.

They have the highest debt to turn over ratio in SPL - the bank will be getting jittery with all this

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think there will be a fix which will see S5088 FC playing in the First or an SPL2 arrangement.

I wouldnt mind this.

The fans forums ( including this one ) are full of 'lets boycott this club or that club'. Hell the way things are going there wont be any hope for Scottish football coz nobody will be watching anybody.

A newco voted back in and relegated to SPL2 with hopefully a points deduction too would be enough for me.

Theres nothing wrong with a bit of compromise, not because I really care what happens to the newco rangers, but because I think we are in danger of tearing the game apart with all the bad feeling this situation is starting to cause between all the clubs.

This all started as a demand from all of us that Rangers should be punished and now its become a runaway train with everybody threatening everybody else.

I just want a fair league and to see some football played. Rangers punished will do me as long is it doesnt mean them playing in the SPL next season.

[Lungo--Drom]

A young boy absentmindedly kicks a ball past the coffins containing the remains of Rangers FC prior to their burial under fresh tarmac in Edmiston Drive, Govan...
Http://www.rangers.co.uk/javaImages/a4/7d/0,,5~10976676,00.jpg

[Saorsa]

I think there will be a fix which will see S5088 FC playing in the First or an SPL2 arrangement.As far as I'm concerned that would still be totally unacceptable.

[HH81]

As far as I'm concerned that would still be totally unacceptable.

Oh dear DD, looks like your going to have to buy a season ticket now :greengrin

[steakbake]

:hilarious

Most of that is just delusional nonsense. One or two lads seeing it exactly for what it is but most are blaming Lloyd's, the Global financial crisis, the SFA and of course, not forgetting Catholics who are involved in some kind of plot against them.

Beyond parody.

[Saorsa]

Oh dear DD, looks like your going to have to buy a season ticket now :greengrinNot if they only go tae the 1st division. Why, oh dear? I have nae problem with continuing with my support of hibs financially after the right thing is done. I have already stated I will likely renew, if I dinnae I will still be there every game I can make which barring any problems with my back will be all of them.

[marinello59]

I wouldnt mind this.

The fans forums ( including this one ) are full of 'lets boycott this club or that club'. Hell the way things are going there wont be any hope for Scottish football coz nobody will be watching anybody.

A newco voted back in and relegated to SPL2 with hopefully a points deduction too would be enough for me.

Theres nothing wrong with a bit of compromise, not because I really care what happens to the newco rangers, but because I think we are in danger of tearing the game apart with all the bad feeling this situation is starting to cause between all the clubs.

This all started as a demand from all of us that Rangers should be punished and now its become a runaway train with everybody threatening everybody else.

I just want a fair league and to see some football played. Rangers punished will do me as long is it doesnt mean them playing in the SPL next season.

Compromise that produces changes that benefit the game in the long term as a whole is acceptable to me as well. Rangers out of the top division is a must. A single governing body overseeing a fairer distribution of revenue along with a more democratic voting system is long overdue. My preferred option would be to get all of that plus Rangers starting out on SFL3 but reality suggests that some sort of deal will need to be done.

[Saorsa]

Compromise that produces changes that benefit the game in the long term as a whole is acceptable to me as well. Rangers out of the top division is a must. A single governing body overseeing a fairer distribution of revenue along with a more democratic voting system is long overdue. My preferred option would be to get all of that plus Rangers starting out on SFL3 but reality suggests that some sort of deal will need to be done.would it be done for anybody out with the OF? Would it ****. Nae fudges and nae compromises, bottom division or nowt.

[marinello59]

would it be done for anybody out with the OF? Would it ****. Nae fudges and nae compromises, bottom division or nowt.

The game has needed change for years. The fact its an Old Firm team in the cr@p means that the other clubs are in a position of strength for once. That's would not be a fudge, that would be using that advantage to gain genuine benefits for the good of the whole game. I want to see them in the bottom division but all that will mean is that their inevitable march back to the top flight takes them two years longer, time during which they will still have a massive fan base but much lower outgoings in wages. Putting them in the bottom tier could actually be the best option for them. Two years extra schadenfreude or genuine change forced through for the long term good of our game? That's the choice that may have to be made.

[IWasThere2016]

Surely Dundee were always going to be promoted if/when Rangers get turfed out of the SPL? That was my understanding of the rules, Dunfermline were relegated and that has to stand.

Yes .. but the rumour is more that they have been informally told it is on.


I doubt it will be Dundee.

The precedent has already been set by the SPL with the stadium issues and league reconstruction in the past, that saviour from relegation rather than deferring to the next highest finisher in Div 1 is the method for plugging any gap.

The fixtures would also need to effectively be rearranged to accommodate Dundee as there are around 10 clashes with Dundee Utd IIRC. Installing Dunfermline back into the SPL would be the easiest way to make up the difference.

Plus, Dundee are almost equally as morally bankrupt as Rangers, having screwed over creditors on 2 occasions - if they're going to get back into the SPL, it should be on footballing merit - they don't deserve to benefit from the demise of a club who did the same as them.

Your dislike of the Dees counts for nothing :wink: The fixtures can be re-done.

[ancienthibby]

Jim Spence on Beeb Radio:

Dons to vote NO!!


:flag::flag::flag:

[Sylar]

The third confirmed club voting "no" is Aberdeen.

From BBC Radio Scotland.

[IWasThere2016]

The other no is ... EBERDEEN .. just been on the Beeb :thumbsup:

[Leithenhibby]

Spence says "Aberdeen" to vote NO.. :wink:

[marinello59]

Yes .. but the rumour is more that they have been informally told it is on.




Excellent news then. A trip to Dens. :thumbsup:

[Dalkeith]

so by the end of day it could all be over:greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

Excellent news then. A trip to Dens. :thumbsup:


Not so sure about that, after all the twists & turn it could still go belly-up!!

[Sylar]

Yes .. but the rumour is more that they have been informally told it is on.



Your dislike of the Dees counts for nothing :wink: The fixtures can be re-done.

My opinion on the unlikelihood of it being Dundee and my dislike for them aren't linked.

The point is that the SPL have in the past set a precedent by saving clubs from relegation rather than rewarding second place in the First Division.

I find it quite laughable that you've been very cheerily vocal on the demise of Rangers, yet give your support/backing (call it what you will) to a club who have shafted many small businesses and employees across the Tayside region :confused:

[Saorsa]

The game has needed change for years. The fact its an Old Firm team in the cr@p means that the other clubs are in a position of strength for once. That's would not be a fudge, that would be using that advantage to gain genuine benefits for the good of the whole game. I want to see them in the bottom division but all that will mean is that their inevitable march back to the top flight takes them two years longer, time during which they will still have a massive fan base but much lower outgoings in wages. Putting them in the bottom tier could actually be the best option for them. Two years extra schadenfreude or genuine change forced through for the long term good of our game? That's the choice that may have to be made.I dinnae disagree that change is needed, I disagree with it being done tae save cheats from their proper fate and just desserts. Put them in the bottom division then change it if they still want tae dae it for any other reason than tae save the huns. Would there be any talk of change if it wisnae them? As I said, I doubt it.

[down-the-slope]

Its well on its way...who's next

8375

[Dalkeith]

3 teams have indicated they will vote against them and all from east of scotland

[ronaldo7]

Its well on its way...who's next

8375

I think Rod's waiting for the next club to come out so he can be the 5th nail in the coffin, and send Sevco to the 3rd division.:cb

[Onion]

I wouldnt mind this.

The fans forums ( including this one ) are full of 'lets boycott this club or that club'. Hell the way things are going there wont be any hope for Scottish football coz nobody will be watching anybody.

A newco voted back in and relegated to SPL2 with hopefully a points deduction too would be enough for me.

Theres nothing wrong with a bit of compromise, not because I really care what happens to the newco rangers, but because I think we are in danger of tearing the game apart with all the bad feeling this situation is starting to cause between all the clubs.

This all started as a demand from all of us that Rangers should be punished and now its become a runaway train with everybody threatening everybody else.

I just want a fair league and to see some football played. Rangers punished will do me as long is it doesnt mean them playing in the SPL next season.

This was always going to rip the SPL apart. There was no avoiding it. Rangers and their apologists incl their media buddies expect everyone else to sell their sporting integrity, throw away fair competition and accept (formally) that the OF are immune from the normal rules of competition. No apology, no humility, legal action against the SFA, arrogance of spending more money, walking away from huge debts with no conscience. Is it any wonder why fans of other clubs who have pumped money into their clubs over the last 15 years want them punished PROPERLY ? Not the slap on the wrist that Rangers want but a fair and proportionate punishment. Demotion to the 3rd div FEELS about right. For NewCo to be out of the SPL for just 1 year FEELS too lenient, given the level of their cheating and lack of remorse.

I expect more revelations to come out of this affair, once BDO and the BBC get stuck into it, maybe to th point where we all think starting at the 3rd Div was a complete let off for NewCo.

[Pretty Boy]

I think we might hear something from Hibs today.


Putting a statement out there seems pretty safe now and it might just tempt a few fans to put their hands in their pockets and buy a season ticket.

Also I see on Rangers media the real cause of all this has been revealed:

Wim Jansen. If he didn't stop 10 in a row then Murray would never have been so reckless apparently.

[lapsedhibee]

I expect more revelations to come out of this affair, once BDO and the BBC get stuck into it, maybe to the point where we all think starting at the 3rd Div was a complete let off for NewCo.
That point should be now.

[Matty_Jack04]

Hibs to email fans on newco issue shortly.....this is it wish I knew would have taken the day off work

[CallumLaidlaw]

Apparently -
BBC also reporting that Hibs will be emailing fans on newco issue shortly.

[bawheid]

That point should be now.

Yip, don't see how they can get into the SFL anyway. Have they ever played a game? Do they have any players? A ground? Can they demonstrate they have their finances in order?

The last thing the SFL needs is a club going bust halfway through the season. Spartans are a far safer bet.

[Matty_Jack04]

@ScotFootBlog: BBC also reporting that Hibs will be emailing fans on newco issue shortly.

Should have done this to begin with #amatuer

[joe breezy]

I doubt it will be Dundee.

The precedent has already been set by the SPL with the stadium issues and league reconstruction in the past, that saviour from relegation rather than deferring to the next highest finisher in Div 1 is the method for plugging any gap.

The fixtures would also need to effectively be rearranged to accommodate Dundee as there are around 10 clashes with Dundee Utd IIRC. Installing Dunfermline back into the SPL would be the easiest way to make up the difference.

Plus, Dundee are almost equally as morally bankrupt as Rangers, having screwed over creditors on 2 occasions - if they're going to get back into the SPL, it should be on footballing merit - they don't deserve to benefit from the demise of a club who did the same as them.

People have already investigated this and it will be Dundee I believe

Hear what you're saying about the irony though...

[joe breezy]

@ScotFootBlog: BBC also reporting that Hibs will be emailing fans on newco issue shortly.

Should have done this to begin with #amatuer

Not that amateur maybe

Just needs a gander at the forums to get a good idea if what well over 10 000 Hibs fans want

Hibs made it clear early doors that theyre taking a similar position to fans

Just in comparison with the new statements it seems less unequivocal

[blackpoolhibs]

People have already investigated this and it will be Dundee I believe

Hear what you're saying about the irony though...

It might be ironic, but they have been punished. All i want is the rules to be applied as they should.

Once the huns are out, we can then get a new set of rules set up, that makes things a lot fairer for EVERYONE, and close all the loopholes that those clubs who dont run their clubs in a fit and proper way can hide behind.

This could be the week that save Scottish football.

[lapsedhibee]

Yip, don't see how they can get into the SFL anyway. Have they ever played a game? Do they have any players? A ground? Can they demonstrate they have their finances in order?

The last thing the SFL needs is a club going bust halfway through the season. Spartans are a far safer bet.

:agree:

Cove Rangers, Spartans = proper football clubs
Sevco 5088 = spiv's wet dream

No case whatsoever for favouring the latter over the former

[BarneyK]

Not that amateur maybe

Just needs a gander at the forums to get a good idea if what well over 10 000 Hibs fans want

Hibs made it clear early doors that theyre taking a similar position to fans

Just in comparison with the new statements it seems less unequivocal

Absolutely. Given what they have said publicly and in emails to fans, I would be astonished if Hibs were to vote YES. In fact, it would be almost an invitation to mutiny.

[Barney McGrew]

Should have done this to begin with #amatuer

Amateurs spell as amateur as amatuer :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

can they not just have a preemptive vote against hertz at the same time, and vote them oot tae :dunno:

[Jim44]

@ScotFootBlog: BBC also reporting that Hibs will be emailing fans on newco issue shortly.

Should have done this to begin with #amatuer

Fair enough but is it not a pointless exercise as it has already been made abundantly clear that 99.9% of us say no. Are these public statements an attempt by the managements of clubs to lessen any long-term conflict with the management of Rangers by hiding behind the wishes of their supporters?

[Onion]

:agree:

Cove Rangers, Spartans = proper football clubs
Sevco 5088 = spiv's wet dream

No case whatsoever for favouring the latter over the former

Money and crowds is the reason. One the flip side, the SFL will have run due diligence on how they will finance and control the Sevco hoards defending on ramshackled grounds every 2nd week. Wouldn't it be great if the police came out and blocked this on the basis of public safety :greengrin

[Sergey]

Apparently -
BBC also reporting that Hibs will be emailing fans on newco issue shortly.

All they need to do is view the poll results from the thread on this messageboard to gauge our opinion.

Over 99% of the voters said no to a NewCo. That would save them the bother.

[Onion]

Fair enough but is it not a pointless exercise as it has already been made abundantly clear that 99.9% of us say no. Are these public statements an attempt by the managements of clubs to lessen any long-term conflict with the management of Rangers by hiding behind the wishes of their supporters?

It doesn't say they are consulting with fans, just that they will be emailing them. I suspect Hibs might be about to explain that (because of the overwhelming call from fans, and the club's own views on sporting integrity) that they will be voting NO on 4th July.

It would be right for Hibs to let the fans know before the media... but let's see.

[Andy74]

All they need to do is view the poll results from the thread on this messageboard to gauge our opinion.

Over 99% of the voters said no to a NewCo. That would save them the bother.

I assume they will just be saying something as opposed to asking - otherwise it seems a bit of pointlessly manual task.

[Dalkeith]

It would be right for Hibs to let the fans know before the media... but let's see.

believe its all to do with the exposure the club gets in the media

[down-the-slope]

I assume they will just be saying something as opposed to asking - otherwise it seems a bit of pointlessly manual task.


The Club reps said last wed that they were clear on fan views...they fill up email boxes daily...and the club view MB's etc....

I'm sure in light of recent announcement Journo's will be calling every club and asking...what are you going to do so expect more press takes on those answers as day goes on...

[greenginger]

Money and crowds is the reason. One the flip side, the SFL will have run due diligence on how they will finance and control the Sevco hoards defending on ramshackled grounds every 2nd week. Wouldn't it be great if the police came out and blocked this on the basis of public safety :greengrin


The Old Firm played Scottish Cup ties at Arbroath and Peterhead earlier this year and the lights continued to work in these towns.

I think it will be great business for the small clubs of SFL 2 and 3 to get the publicity and decent gates a couple of times at least.

The Huns should look on it as Community Service for crimes committed against football. :agree:

[StevieC]

The no votes will continue - http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4387832/SPL-rivals-ready-to-vote-against-newco.html


Can't believe they are saying that Hearts were the first to break rank!
Rod was clear from day one that we'd be making our vote based on "sporting integrity" (a clear NO vote). Aberdeen and their support, without actually saying NO, were pretty clear as to which route they'd be taking. Dundee United issued a strong statement last week that they were taking heed of their support and forming a NO vote. I would say that Hearts were more like 3rd or 4th in line when it came to issuing their NO statement.

[Newry Hibs]

The players contract negotiations should be fun, if a couple more 'No' votes appear.

[BarneyK]

Can't believe they are saying that Hearts were the first to break rank!
Rod was clear from day one that we'd be making our vote based on "sporting integrity" (a clear NO vote). Aberdeen and their support, without actually saying NO, were pretty clear as to which route they'd be taking. Dundee United issued a strong statement last week that they were taking heed of their support and forming a NO vote. I would say that Hearts were more like 3rd or 4th in line when it came to issuing their NO statement.

Aye but Vlad's rants are always such top quality entertainment. I'll actually kind of miss him when he's gone... :greengrin

[Andy74]

Can't believe they are saying that Hearts were the first to break rank!
Rod was clear from day one that we'd be making our vote based on "sporting integrity" (a clear NO vote). Aberdeen and their support, without actually saying NO, were pretty clear as to which route they'd be taking. Dundee United issued a strong statement last week that they were taking heed of their support and forming a NO vote. I would say that Hearts were more like 3rd or 4th in line when it came to issuing their NO statement.

They did actually come out and say it though.

I thought they would all be under a duty to say the right things but not reveal how they were planning to vote which is probably the view Hibs were taking.

Hearts though were firsr to actually say how they would be using their vote. It does seem to have encouraged this to come to a head early on and so that's good.

[Andy74]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!

[Barney McGrew]

now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!

Yup, and there's plenty people willing to hold the handles.

Do you think this lot are ever going to man up and take their punishment instead of blaming everyone else? Answers on a postcard......

[PatHead]

Glad Greene went on the charm offensive last week. Looks like he has managed to pee off all the club chairman enough to make them vote before the actual vote takes place. Looks like a really good match for the old Rangers supporters. Comes across as a Horrible, arrogant man.

[Sylar]

Yup, and there's plenty people willing to hold the handles.

Do you think this lot are ever going to man up and take their punishment instead of blaming everyone else? Answers on a postcard......

Seems an awful waste of a postcard for a 2 letter word :confused:

[stokesmessiah]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!

Oh i like that one can we keep him?

[PatHead]

Yup, and there's plenty people willing to hold the handles.

Do you think this lot are ever going to man up and take their punishment instead of blaming everyone else? Answers on a postcard......

Don't need a postcard...................NO

[stokesmessiah]

Glad Greene went on the charm offensive last week. Looks like he has managed to pee off all the club chairman enough to make them vote before the actual vote takes place. Looks like a really good match for the old Rangers supporters. Comes across as a Horrible, arrogant man.

Yeah it has not really done him any favours. He has been bullish since he arrived on the scene and tried to dictate how things would go, I dont think he realised the depth of feeling amongst non-sevco fans about this.

[oxymoron]

Aye but Vlad's rants are always such top quality entertainment. I'll actually kind of miss him when he's gone... :greengrin


:agree:

[jgl07]

They have the highest debt to turn over ratio in SPL - the bank will be getting jittery with all this

I would have thought that Kilmarnock have nowhere near the debt to turnover ratio of Hearts!

[Famous5forever]

It would be great if the club made an official press release confirming its NO To Newco this afternoon please.

[whiskyhibby]

The players contract negotiations should be fun, if a couple more 'No' votes appear.

TUPE law is quite clear they can already walk, irrespective of what Green suggests or how the Sevco vote goes.............

[greenginger]

I would have thought that Kilmarnock have nowhere near the debt to turnover ratio of Hearts!


Yeah, but since they owe to themselves the Yams are also the richest club in Scottish Football. :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

I would have thought that Kilmarnock have nowhere near the debt to turnover ratio of Hearts!

They have £9.5 million debt IIRC where Hearts have swapped it for equity etc till no one really knows true picture. Also big difference is Killie own to a UK bank not like Hearts who's owner holds the debt in effect

[CallumLaidlaw]

It would be great if the club made an official press release confirming its NO To Newco this afternoon please.

Along with "oh and by the way, we've signed James McPake". Would be a great press release :-)

[stokesmessiah]

Along with "oh and by the way, we've signed James McPake". Would be a great press release :-)

I am slightly moist.

[Newry Hibs]

TUPE law is quite clear they can already walk, irrespective of what Green suggests or how the Sevco vote goes.............

I was thinking of how Green and Sally would try and sell staying at the club with the promise of trips to East Stirling and the like.

[StevieC]

The game has needed change for years. The fact its an Old Firm team in the cr@p means that the other clubs are in a position of strength for once. That's would not be a fudge, that would be using that advantage to gain genuine benefits for the good of the whole game. I want to see them in the bottom division but all that will mean is that their inevitable march back to the top flight takes them two years longer, time during which they will still have a massive fan base but much lower outgoings in wages. Putting them in the bottom tier could actually be the best option for them. Two years extra schadenfreude or genuine change forced through for the long term good of our game? That's the choice that may have to be made.

They will always have a big fanbase and always generate more money. As soon as they get back to the SPL it will be a two horse race again. If they manage to save some cash and come back stronger then it's only really going to be Celtic that it affects. However, especially if Green stays in charge, I suspect that any extra cash that they bring in during this time will end up in the pockets of the "investors".

In the meantime though, we have an opportunity to shake up the league, distribute wealth more evenly and generally have a bit of fun while they're away.

Division 3 is fine. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

I was thinking of how Green and Sally would try and sell staying at the club with the promise of trips to East Stirling and the like.

Why would McCoist stay?

[green glory]

Why would McCoist stay?

I think when Sally McMoist and the players meet Green next week there's going to be a lot of walking away.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think when Sally McMoist and the players meet Green next week there's going to be a lot of walking away.

TBH, it wouldn't surprise me to see McCoist walk as well. I'm sure he would get a decent gig in the media for more money and half the hassle.

[Newry Hibs]

Why would McCoist stay?

Because no one in Blue ever does walking away?? :greengrin

I think you're right - he would go and most of the other saleable ones. It's just he is manager at the moment (of what I'm not sure), so I guess he has a duty to his players (if indeed he has any).

Would be funny to hear the opening lines .... 'So Allan come in. Have a seat .....'

[Tynie01011973]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!

Yes, as JC succintly put it "Et tu Brute, and HMFC, DUFC,AFC and .................................................. ......................"

:greengrin

[MB62]

Surely Dundee were always going to be promoted if/when Rangers get turfed out of the SPL? That was my understanding of the rules, Dunfermline were relegated and that has to stand.

In the same token, Dundee did not win promotion so THAT should stand.

Kind of agree with the other posters point re Dundee and being in administration twice.

Dunfy to stay up for me.

[Geo_1875]

Can't believe they are saying that Hearts were the first to break rank!
Rod was clear from day one that we'd be making our vote based on "sporting integrity" (a clear NO vote). Aberdeen and their support, without actually saying NO, were pretty clear as to which route they'd be taking. Dundee United issued a strong statement last week that they were taking heed of their support and forming a NO vote. I would say that Hearts were more like 3rd or 4th in line when it came to issuing their NO statement.

They actually published their statement months ago but it took a team of experts several readings to work out wtf he was talking about.

[Andy74]

In the same token, Dundee did not win promotion so THAT should stand.

Kind of agree with the other posters point re Dundee and being in administration twice.

Dunfy to stay up for me.

It's always going to difficult to say whether the team who has proven that they lost their place or the one that didn't quite reach the automatic right to get the invite should win out.

However, the rules are currently that Dundee would get the invite.

If a team had gone bust during the season then Dunfermline would have stayed up.

[Sylar]

It's always going to difficult to say whether the team who has proven that they lost their place or the one that didn't quite reach the automatic right to get the invite should win out.

However, the rules are currently that Dundee would get the invite.

If a team had gone bust during the season then Dunfermline would have stayed up.

Is there an actual rule you can link me to, be it part of the SPL rulebook or a news article?

Not being bitchy with the above, but I've see nothing which suggests this myself and I'd be curious to read said rule.

I'd also be interested to read when any such rule was implemented, as it certainly never used to be the case.

[Derek Dougan]

In the same token, Dundee did not win promotion so THAT should stand.

Kind of agree with the other posters point re Dundee and being in administration twice.

Dunfy to stay up for me.

Would it then not be better to have an 11 team league? Free week when the clubs are due to play "club 12". No relegation. Would we see better football from all teams with the threat of relegation taken away?

[Sylar]

From the SPL Rules:

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League:


H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.

[Andy74]

Is there an actual rule you can link me to, be it part of the SPL rulebook or a news article?

Not being bitchy with the above, but I've see nothing which suggests this myself and I'd be curious to read said rule.

I'd also be interested to read when any such rule was implemented, as it certainly never used to be the case.

Don't know whwere to find them, someone quoted them on here at some stage and so I take that to be the truth obviously. :greengrin

[jgl07]

From the SPL Rules:

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League:

H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.

That would have been the case if Rangers folded before the end of the season. They did not.

Another rule applies if they go after the end of the season. The opinion was that the second placed team in Division One.

Selective quoting of the rules to back up your anti Dundee agenda is fooling no-one.

[Sylar]

That would have been the case if Rangers folded before the end of the season. They did not.

Another rule applies if they go after the end of the season. The opinion was that the second placed team in Division One.

Selective quoting of the rules to back up your anti Dundee agenda is fooling no-one.

Having read the relevant section over twice now, I fail to see anything which stipulates a difference between during and post-season.

And which is it - an opinion or a rule?

[sadtom]

They will always have a big fanbase and always generate more money. As soon as they get back to the SPL it will be a two horse race again. If they manage to save some cash and come back stronger then it's only really going to be Celtic that it affects. However, especially if Green stays in charge, I suspect that any extra cash that they bring in during this time will end up in the pockets of the "investors".
In the meantime though, we have an opportunity to shake up the league, distribute wealth more evenly and generally have a bit of fun while they're away.

Division 3 is fine. :aok:

I dont think that 'stuck on'. When they were pants before their gates were dismal.
No top quality players on show, being paid dodgy money, means success is less likely. No success = no more wandering heards of Orcs and assorted mutants travelling the lenghth and bredth of the country to hand over their giros to watch unsuccessful guff every week. The evidence that der hun are 'fair weather' already exists.
Without artificial backing its terminal decline for the sticky buns i reckon.
Where has 'blue is the colour gone to these days?"

[Crazyhorse]

I suppose the argument would be that the olds hun team did complete the league season and season 2011-12 ended with DAFC relegated.

I would have liked to have seen Dunfy stay up but I can see the rationale for Dundee being promoted instead.

Haven't posted on this thread before but now that it looks like the clubs are going to do the right thing I feel I should state my support for Petrie and the board throughout this saga. They have in my view taken a consistent and principled positon which I reckon has had a big influence on other clubs despite him not spouting headline grabbing quotes.



From the SPL Rules:

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League:


H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.

[s.a.m]

Worrying bit of back-pedalling here:

Keith Downie‏@STVkeithAberdeen Chariman Stewart Milne says that contracry to reports, Aberdeen have still to make a decision on Rangers newco in SPL.

[MB62]

It's always going to difficult to say whether the team who has proven that they lost their place or the one that didn't quite reach the automatic right to get the invite should win out.

However, the rules are currently that Dundee would get the invite.
If a team had gone bust during the season then Dunfermline would have stayed up.

wasn't aware of that Andy, didn't know there was rules already in place.

Not overly bothered one way or the other, Dunfy is always a better day probably.

[green glory]

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/lifestyle/2012/06/ns-profile-rangers-fc

[neilmartinrocks]

I suppose the argument would be that the olds hun team did complete the league season and season 2011-12 ended with DAFC relegated.

I would have liked to have seen Dunfy stay up but I can see the rationale for Dundee being promoted instead.

Haven't posted on this thread before but now that it looks like the clubs are going to do the right thing I feel I should state my support for Petrie and the board throughout this saga. They have in my view taken a consistent and principled positon which I reckon has had a big influence on other clubs despite him not spouting headline grabbing quotes.

makes ye proud to be a hibee.
as for the vacant spot Dundee for me. 2 derbies v's united and saints and Dunfy get 2 v's Raith and Cowdenbeath and although its not a real derby Falkirk.

[green glory]

Har Har!

https://twitter.com/bbcallamont/status/216120253216862208

[Sylar]

That would have been the case if Rangers folded before the end of the season. They did not.

Another rule applies if they go after the end of the season. The opinion was that the second placed team in Division One.

Selective quoting of the rules to back up your anti Dundee agenda is fooling no-one.

Here is the rule which address the issue of promotion and relegation - the bit I've linked above is a Miscellaneous addition to address the issue of membership being ceased for any reason (including liquidation). Combine the 2, and none of Sevco, Dundee or Dunfermline have any right to be in the SPL.

"The association football clubs eligible to participate in the League in any Season shall, subject to the Articles of Association and Rules, be those Clubs which participated in the League in the immediately preceding Season, except that, subject to Rules A2.2, A2.3 and A2.4, the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League and shall be relegated to the SFL and the Candidate Club shall be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League."

So correctly, Dunfermline were relegated from the SPL and the Candidate Club (Ross County) have been promoted in their stead.

Dundee are no more eligible than Dunfermline in claiming right to the SPL as they neither played in the league in the preceeding season nor are they the Candidate Club.

There really is no precedent in the SPL rules for this situation to be honest!

[Malthibby]

Apologies if already posted but Herald suggesing folk buying Rankers season tickets are finding their cash is going to the Oldco, meaning it can
be accessed by the creditors & won't be helping the new lot.
Please let it be true.
GG

[Sylar]

Apologies if already posted but Herald suggesing folk buying Rankers season tickets are finding their cash is going to the Oldco, meaning it can
be accessed by the creditors & won't be helping the new lot.
Please let it be true.
GG

Such a rumour was doing the rounds yesterday. The NewCo can't get a bank to take them on just now so the suggestion is that the money is defaulting back to Rangers FC. I'm not sure of the ins and outs as to how this works mind you, but the Bears certainly weren't happy about it.

The suggestion was that with the ST investment money going into the OldCo (and thus going to the creditors), no investors coming forward (this was before the £11m bid was announced right enough...) and the NewCo being unable to raise working capital through bank loans, that administration of the NewCo was highly possible.

So many rumours and stories doing the rounds though, that it becomes difficult to separate the truth from fiction!

[down-the-slope]

Worrying bit of back-pedalling here:

Keith Downie‏@STVkeithAberdeen Chariman Stewart Milne says that contracry to reports, Aberdeen have still to make a decision on Rangers newco in SPL.

BBooooooooooooooooooooo :confused:


Har Har!

https://twitter.com/bbcallamont/status/216120253216862208

Nice :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

From the SPL Rules:

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League:


H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.

Rule A2.1 says
the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League
so now that 2011-2012 is over that would suggest that Dunfy are not eligible for season 2012-2013.

I think the Articles rather than the rules would kick in and the old version that I have say that the board can consent to a transfer of a share (presumably where the transferor is willing) or they can order the transfer to their nominee following a qualified resolution (90% or 11-1). That has now been changed to a vote by all the clubs, but on the face of it there doesn't appear to be any automatic candidate. On a strict interpretation of Rule A2.1 though (and other similar wording in both the Articles and the rules) Dunfermline are specifically not eligible.

[down-the-slope]

Such a rumour was doing the rounds yesterday. The NewCo can't get a bank to take them on just now so the suggestion is that the money is defaulting back to Rangers FC. I'm not sure of the ins and outs as to how this works mind you, but the Bears certainly weren't happy about it.

The suggestion was that with the ST investment money going into the OldCo (and thus going to the creditors), no investors coming forward (this was before the £11m bid was announced right enough...) and the NewCo being unable to raise working capital through bank loans, that administration of the NewCo was highly possible.

So many rumours and stories doing the rounds though, that it becomes difficult to separate the truth from fiction!

:agree: but look at the hours and hours fun and 13000+ posts we have had trying :greengrin

[Sylar]

Rule A2.1 says so now that 2011-2012 is over that would suggest that Dunfy are not eligible for season 2012-2013.

I think the Articles rather than the rules would kick in and the old version that I have say that the board can consent to a transfer of a share (presumably where the transferor is willing) or they can order the transfer to their nominee following a qualified resolution (90% or 11-1). That has now been changed to a vote by all the clubs, but on the face of it there doesn't appear to be any automatic candidate. On a strict interpretation of Rule A2.1 though (and other similar wording in both the Articles and the rules) Dunfermline are specifically not eligible.


You can read it either way though - Dundee are equally ineligible because they were neither the Candidate Club nor participated in the league the year beforehand.

There is no easy answer really!

[H18sry]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9347854/Rangers-in-crisis-Lloyds-Bank-raises-concerns-over-plans-for-former-club-to-collect-season-ticket-money.html :aok:

[lapsedhibee]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9347854/Rangers-in-crisis-Lloyds-Bank-raises-concerns-over-plans-for-former-club-to-collect-season-ticket-money.html :aok:

Notice he does not promise that ST money will be used for any specific purpose, just when it will be used (or more precisely when it will not be used). :faf:

"I can reassure all fans that season ticket money will be ring-fenced in a secure account and will not be used before the current issues surrounding the club, such as what league we will be playing in, are resolved."

Spiv.

[Caversham Green]

Apologies if already posted but Herald suggesing folk buying Rankers season tickets are finding their cash is going to the Oldco, meaning it can
be accessed by the creditors & won't be helping the new lot.
Please let it be true.
GG


Such a rumour was doing the rounds yesterday. The NewCo can't get a bank to take them on just now so the suggestion is that the money is defaulting back to Rangers FC. I'm not sure of the ins and outs as to how this works mind you, but the Bears certainly weren't happy about it.

The suggestion was that with the ST investment money going into the OldCo (and thus going to the creditors), no investors coming forward (this was before the £11m bid was announced right enough...) and the NewCo being unable to raise working capital through bank loans, that administration of the NewCo was highly possible.

So many rumours and stories doing the rounds though, that it becomes difficult to separate the truth from fiction!

I suspect if that's true the money would be going into the solicitor's account that was set up to recive post-administration income if the CVA had been agreed. That means it won't be available for the liquidators, but on the other hand D&P can't do anything with it because they're not acting for Sevco.

As an aside I think D&P would be acting unethically if they take part in any vote in relation to the SPL or Scottish football in general. Their client - the soon-to-be-dead Rangers FC can no longer participate in Scottish football and D&P are not equipped to judge what is in Scottish football's best interests. Rangers FC is now irrelevant and they should abstain from any vote.

[Caversham Green]

You can read it either way though - Dundee are equally ineligible because they were neither the Candidate Club nor participated in the league the year beforehand.

There is no easy answer really!

No, but the transfer to them can be approved under the articles - they are not specifically ineligible in the way that Dunfermline are. In fact on a strict reading of the rules/Articles Dunfermline are the only football club in Scotland that can't participate in the SPL, because the other requirements can be waived.

[Sylar]

No, but the transfer to them can be approved under the articles - they are not specifically ineligible in the way that Dunfermline are. In fact on a strict reading of the rules/Articles Dunfermline are the only football club in Scotland that can't participate in the SPL, because the other requirements can be waived.

Interesting.

Cheers CG - happy to be corrected :agree:

[Caversham Green]

Interesting.

Cheers CG - happy to be corrected :agree:

It's all just my opinion though, it could work out differently.

[Saorsa]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!and meanwhile back on this planet.....




http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/fall_off_chair_laughing.gif

[greenginger]

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107524-rangers-crisis-judge-orders-inquiry-into-clubs-administrators/


Duff and Phelps might be getting their collars felt by other Boys in Blue.


And not before time.

[Jim44]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!


I object to the 'knives in the back' bit. I think it's a transparent full frontal attack on a guilty, well deserving victim.

[IWasThere2016]

My opinion on the unlikelihood of it being Dundee and my dislike for them aren't linked.

The point is that the SPL have in the past set a precedent by saving clubs from relegation rather than rewarding second place in the First Division.

I find it quite laughable that you've been very cheerily vocal on the demise of Rangers, yet give your support/backing (call it what you will) to a club who have shafted many small businesses and employees across the Tayside region :confused:

What DFC did in the past was wrong but it is in the past ala Livi, Airdire, Livi etc .. Looking forward, Dundee up is the correct decision.

[Saorsa]

Some hun:

brainless twits all yous fans of football want to see the Scottish game die yous are going the right way about it cowards we have kept your teams going for years now the knifes are out to stab us in the back!!!So that's why they stole all that money, it wisnae for themselves, it was tae keep every else going. Wasn't that kind of them :greengrin

Now look at all the trouble they are in for helping us all out, shame :boo hoo:

:hilarious

[CropleyWasGod]

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107524-rangers-crisis-judge-orders-inquiry-into-clubs-administrators/


Duff and Phelps might be getting their collars felt by other Boys in Blue.


And not before time.

No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.

[greenginger]

No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.


Who knows what is going to come crawling out when more stones are overturned. This saga will keep the legal profession handsomely remunerated for years.

[Paisley Hibby]

Here is the rule which address the issue of promotion and relegation - the bit I've linked above is a Miscellaneous addition to address the issue of membership being ceased for any reason (including liquidation). Combine the 2, and none of Sevco, Dundee or Dunfermline have any right to be in the SPL.

"The association football clubs eligible to participate in the League in any Season shall, subject to the Articles of Association and Rules, be those Clubs which participated in the League in the immediately preceding Season, except that, subject to Rules A2.2, A2.3 and A2.4, the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League and shall be relegated to the SFL and the Candidate Club shall be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League."

So correctly, Dunfermline were relegated from the SPL and the Candidate Club (Ross County) have been promoted in their stead.

Dundee are no more eligible than Dunfermline in claiming right to the SPL as they neither played in the league in the preceeding season nor are they the Candidate Club.

There really is no precedent in the SPL rules for this situation to be honest!

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

[joe breezy]

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

[Paisley Hibby]

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

[kenny-55]

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days

[Captain Trips]

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.

[joe breezy]

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

Ah, with you now, it's like being a lawyer trying to keep up with all of this :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately :confused: not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(

[Andy74]

Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.

SPL is membership based though so that's not really true in practice.

[StevieC]

where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately :confused: not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

[kenny-55]

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!


totally agree this guy is a waste of space


:top marks

[cabbageandribs1875]

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!


oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well :agree: i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ :cb

[johnrebus]

No, but the transfer to them can be approved under the articles - they are not specifically ineligible in the way that Dunfermline are. In fact on a strict reading of the rules/Articles Dunfermline are the only football club in Scotland that can't participate in the SPL, because the other requirements can be waived.



Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.


:cb

[Tynie01011973]

oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well :agree: i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ :cb

It will be interesting to see how many of the establishment apologists will survive once the fan's backlash turns the spotlight on them :greengrin

[Brando7]

I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days

How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?

[HFC 0-7]

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

They cant expunge the points retrospectively because of the split. The split means that even if the 6th placed team finished with lower points than any of the bottom 6 teams they cannot be placed below them. In addition the 5 games post split would all have been wrong as the bottom 6 should have been playing rangers.

[ian cruise]

How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?

i was going to post the same thing. What a start to the season

[Andy74]

The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.

[IWasThere2016]

Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.


:cb

There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.

[JeMeSouviens]

The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.

The SPL changed its articles of association recently, part of which was to allow all clubs to get a vote on the transfer of share. Didn't see the full set of changes made public anywhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

On what grounds would you do that, though? They fulfilled all their fixtures, and haven't been found guilty in the double-contracts thing yet.

[matty_f]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[HH81]

There is a rumour down here rangers have agreed a fall back deal with a non league club in England. One lower than conf North.

Doubt its true but was told the club had agreed to been moved to Scotland and a route into the English leagues. I'm told bury rumour was a smoke screen for this.

[Stevie Reid]

Worrying bit of back-pedalling here:

Keith Downie‏@STVkeithAberdeen Chariman Stewart Milne says that contracry to reports, Aberdeen have still to make a decision on Rangers newco in SPL.

That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."

[VickMackie]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Brilliant statement. Especially the bit about 100p in the pound.

[VickMackie]

That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."

Companies usually make decisions on products on MoSCoW ratings. Must have, should have, would have, could have.

Sporting integrity = must have
Supportive fan base = must have
Financial income = must have

These are the 3 main ones moving forward. 2 of the three would be required as a minimum, usually all 3. It's impossible to get with a newco.

[Sylar]

There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.

Dundee finished closer to the bottom of division one than they did to the top of the league (in terms of points differential) and did not meet the necessary requirements to get to the SPL.

Dunfermline finished bottom of the league by 8 points and were deservingly relegated from the SPL, but then again, they were competing in a league against a team who cheated and have been punished accordingly. The cards were stacked against the Pars (and every other club in the SPL).

In terms of footballing performance, none of them "deserve" to be in the SPL.

If Dundee (or Livingston, or Airdrie Utd...) ever make it back to the SPL on merit, having properly rebuilt and worked their way back whilst learning the lessons of their financial misdemeanors of the past, I'll tip my hat to them. However, Dundee cheated many people out of significant amounts of money - not once, but twice - and there are a large number of people up here on Tayside (as well you know) who have been royally screwed over by the previous incumbents at Dens Park. To think that this club will now benefit and be defaulted into the most lucrative league in Scotland because of the financial mismanagement of others is simply galling.

The ONLY way this would be settled fairly is either having an 11 team SPL next year or forcing a playoff between the 2 clubs. IMHO.

[Saorsa]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[ancienthibby]

Beeb Radio reporting that 11 SPL clubs planning a meeting prior to the scheduled 4th July meeting.

Will the second one then be made redundant??:cb

Here's more:

Rangers newco vote implications to be discussed by SPL clubs
Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on 4 July.
All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.
Dundee United and Hearts have already publicly stated they will vote against allowing a new Rangers into the SPL. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483)
BBC Scotland has learned that Aberdeen will also say no to Charles Green's application for his relaunched Rangers to replace the old club.
And Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie previously made it clear that commercial concerns were of secondary importance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18065520) in relation to the integrity of the league.
Kilmarnock are the latest club to say they will canvas supporter opinion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18422397) following similar moves by Inverness, Motherwell and St Mirren.
It is understood the SPL board will make recommendations on various outcomes and scenarios at Thursday's meeting.
Green's consortium, which bought Rangers' assets last week, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18447530)needs the support of seven rival clubs when the SPL vote on the issue.
Should Green's group not get the required 8-4 vote in their favour for top flight football, they would have to apply to fill the vacancy that would be created by a team being promoted from the Scottish Football League.
Rangers Football Club plc entered administration in February over unpaid tax and Revenue and Customs' vote against a company voluntary arrangement proposal prompted the transfer of assets to Green's group and their attempts to replace the old Rangers in the SPL.

[HFC 0-7]

Beeb Radio reporting that 11 SPL clubs planning a meeting prior to the scheduled 4th July meeting.

Will the second one then be made redundant??:cb

I think they have to, they can't keep waiting, some clubs will run out of money if people don't renew, plus they will want to know how much they will be getting from a revised tv deal. Clubs won't be able to negotiate contracts until they know how much cash they will be getting either. Sooner the clubs vote no, the sooner sky can re negotiate the deal, punters will buy tickets and the clubs will know their budgets

[weecounty hibby]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Well said Falkirk. FYI Huns, even the supposed wee teams don't want you in their league!

I had the misfortune to overhear a conversation where a Hun was busy telling a group of women how it was completely unfair what was happening to them and that everyone was now ganging up on them and they were the victims. He said they had been punished enough and when I pointed out that the only punishment so far had been a £160k fine and a transfer ban that had since been removed and they had seen their £millions of debt in effect wiped out he genuinely just didn't get it.

Again no remorse for having cheated for years just a mentality of "we are Rangers we can do whatever we want" and we have propped up Scottish football for years and you are all lucky to have us.

[jgl07]

Dundee finished closer to the bottom of division one than they did to the top of the league (in terms of points differential) and did not meet the necessary requirements to get to the SPL.

Dunfermline finished bottom of the league by 8 points and were deservingly relegated from the SPL, but then again, they were competing in a league against a team who cheated and have been punished accordingly. The cards were stacked against the Pars (and every other club in the SPL).

In terms of footballing performance, none of them "deserve" to be in the SPL.

If Dundee (or Livingston, or Airdrie Utd...) ever make it back to the SPL on merit, having properly rebuilt and worked their way back whilst learning the lessons of their financial misdemeanors of the past, I'll tip my hat to them. However, Dundee cheated many people out of significant amounts of money - not once, but twice - and there are a large number of people up here on Tayside (as well you know) who have been royally screwed over by the previous incumbents at Dens Park. To think that this club will now benefit and be defaulted into the most lucrative league in Scotland because of the financial mismanagement of others is simply galling.

The ONLY way this would be settled fairly is either having an 11 team SPL next year or forcing a playoff between the 2 clubs. IMHO.

This is all irrelevant!

The rules will be followed.

There will be no weighing up moral issues over past periods in Administation or the points gap between first and second.

I just think that everyone in the SPL and SFL1 would absolutely love your bonkers suggestion of a play-off!

When would this matches be played? Would the players be dragged back from their holiday early. Or will this be held the weekend and midweek before the season starts.

There is enough uncertainty in terms of fixture arrangements without adding another time bomb.

As for an eleven team League, how would that work? Would the split be retained? Would the top six play 35 matches and the bottom five 34? The whole thing is a complete farce.

You really pursue a vendetta!

[Hibbyradge]

This is all irrelevant!

The rules will be followed.

There will be no weighing up moral issues over past periods in Administation or the points gap between first and second.

I just think that everyone in the SPL and SFL1 would absolutely love your bonkers suggestion of a play-off!

When would this matches be played? Would the players be dragged back from their holiday early. Or will this be held the weekend and midweek before the season starts.

There is enough uncertainty in terms of fixture arrangements without adding another time bomb.

As for an eleven team League, how would that work? Would the split be retained? Would the top six play 35 matches and the bottom five 34? The whole thing is a complete farce.

You really pursue a vendetta!

11 teams = 40 games. :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

It will be interesting to see how many of the establishment apologists will survive once the fan's backlash turns the spotlight on them :greengrin



i'l wager NONE :(

[Hibs Class]

11 teams = 40 games. :wink:

How many match days? :devil:

[jgl07]

11 teams = 40 games. :wink:

That will be fun to schedule bearing in mind that one team would have to sit out each round of fixtures.

It will be similar to the schedule when there was a 44 match season. That operated before the series of breaks for Internationals and midweeks blocked for Champions' League matches.

[Andy74]

Where's the supposed email?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I agree with Falkirk on this matter.......They paid all creditors in full, so they would be galled to see Newco being afforded such leniency....

[NAE NOOKIE]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5986&Itemid=320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Can understand their point of view. As far as I know the model Falkirk are currently following is as far removed from the past rangers way of working as it is possible to get, so their opposition is understandable.

But that is why there should be conditions for any rangers newco being admitted to SFL1 or SPL2. Either dock them 20 points on entry or ( this is my favourite ) expand the SPL to 14 teams and have 3 up 3 down with the 3rd promotion place decided by a play off. That would give the likes of Falkirk a decent promotion chance, newco rangers or not.

[Sylar]

This is all irrelevant!

The rules will be followed.

There will be no weighing up moral issues over past periods in Administation or the points gap between first and second.

Undoubtedly, however my points address TQM's opinion of why Dundee are more deserving. I'm well aware it will be decided based on a very fluid and open-to-interpretation set of rules (i.e., the SPL board will come to a concensus rather than being guided by anything concrete) rather than any previous moral issues or financial discrepancies. Those are merely my opinions as to why Dundee don't deserve their place in the SPL - evidently, my opinion counts for utterly hee-haw in the matter of who gets in and who doesn't and I'm not suggesting any of my arguments will be considered when it comes to crunch time, but when the discussion comes around to "deserving" and "integrity", what will actually happen is equally as incidental.

Earlier, I asked you to clarify which particular aspect of the rules would admit Dundee into the league and you disappeared as quickly as you appeared. Seeing as there's still huge uncertainty surrounding this and you quite clearly keep citing this rule which makes everything incredibly crystal clear, would you mind sourcing it and posting it up here? There are evidently a few of us (in the wider Scottish Football Community, not just exclusive to Hibs.net) who are interpreting one rule and trying to work out what it means. You seem unnervingly sure that there's a concrete article or law which dictates it will be Dundee and I'd love to see it. That's not an effort to be arsey or accuse you of lying (I'm not BTW) but some media sources also claim there is a concrete rule which points to Dundee, whereas others say it's all about opinion and interpretation.

If you can show me specifically what it is, I'll hold both hands up and say fair enough and offer to buy you a beer before a game next year and we can laugh about the whole thing. I genuinely don't know and couldn't see anything which puts the matter beyond any doubt from the SPL rules/Articles which addresses the situation.


I just think that everyone in the SPL and SFL1 would absolutely love your bonkers suggestion of a play-off!

Aye, who would have thought such a notion as a playoff would ever take off. What an idiot I (and several other posters on here) must be. It's not as if the Scottish 3rd, 2nd and 1st divisions or the English leagues do this, so it would be incredibly far fetched to think a one-off match could be arranged, which leads to the next point:


When would this matches be played? Would the players be dragged back from their holiday early. Or will this be held the weekend and midweek before the season starts.

There is enough uncertainty in terms of fixture arrangements without adding another time bomb.

"Dragged back from their holidays" - are you for real? The players have been off from their respective teams since the second week in May (1 week earlier in the case of the First Division) and none of them have Euro representation. These players are due back soon (if not already) for pre-season duties. A competitive game before the season starts (there are 6 weeks between now and the start of the season) which is plenty of time to arrange a one-off game at a neutral venue. Do you really not think both Dundee and Dunfermline would relish a) a competitive warm-up game before the season starts when b) the prize on the line was readmission to the SPL and the financial benefits of such a promotion? I dare say these poor inconvenienced players being "dragged back" (kicking and screaming?) from their holidays might even manage to get themselves up for that.


As for an eleven team League, how would that work? Would the split be retained? Would the top six play 35 matches and the bottom five 34? The whole thing is a complete farce.

I stress that the 11 team league isn't my idea - the argument is that every team would have a free week, when due to play a"Club 12", which would be left blank. It would help address cup fixtures/replays, postponements, "glamour friendlies" without causing fixture congestion. Again, this isn't MY idea/argument though - merely an alternative to the minefield of "entitled" promotion.



You really pursue a vendetta!

I'm only arguing one particular side of the coin - those are the reasons I feel Dundee shouldn't be installed into the SPL on a default position. Hardly a "Vendetta" for goodness sake.

[HibbyRod]

Where's the supposed email?


Aye! I've been wondering about that too. :I'm waiti

[IWasThere2016]

Dundee finished closer to the bottom of division one than they did to the top of the league (in terms of points differential) and did not meet the necessary requirements to get to the SPL.

Dunfermline finished bottom of the league by 8 points and were deservingly relegated from the SPL, but then again, they were competing in a league against a team who cheated and have been punished accordingly. The cards were stacked against the Pars (and every other club in the SPL).

In terms of footballing performance, none of them "deserve" to be in the SPL.

If Dundee (or Livingston, or Airdrie Utd...) ever make it back to the SPL on merit, having properly rebuilt and worked their way back whilst learning the lessons of their financial misdemeanors of the past, I'll tip my hat to them. However, Dundee cheated many people out of significant amounts of money - not once, but twice - and there are a large number of people up here on Tayside (as well you know) who have been royally screwed over by the previous incumbents at Dens Park. To think that this club will now benefit and be defaulted into the most lucrative league in Scotland because of the financial mismanagement of others is simply galling.

The ONLY way this would be settled fairly is either having an 11 team SPL next year or forcing a playoff between the 2 clubs. IMHO.

A play-off is not fair as DAFC have been relegated.

Regardless of points tally - distance from the bottom of the league etc Dundee were 2nd. If they're no good enough they'll get relegated from the SPL - as it should be.

The whole situation is farcical and contrived as it is without introducing a play-off or playing with 11 teams. The SPL is presently constituted for 12 teams, and the SPL should invite the second team in the First Division in. No brainer.

[adhibs]

Where's the supposed email?
Possibly changed their mind and didnt see the point after the uncertainty with aberdeens vote? A definate no from them followed by a no from us wouldve put celtic under massive pressure to come out today and finish this thing once and for all

[seanshow]

Hardly a "Vendetta" for goodness sake.

No that's a Vespa Lambretta hybrid :)

[Caversham Green]

This is all irrelevant!

The rules will be followed.


As for an eleven team League, how would that work? Would the split be retained? Would the top six play 35 matches and the bottom five 34? The whole thing is a complete farce.



I think an 11 team league might be the purest interpretation of the rules. The dying Rangers FC still hold the SPL share and the upcoming and any subsequent votes are to approve (or not as the case may be) the transfer to another club. If that can't be approved RFC(RIP) retain the share until they expire at which point it reverts to the SPL board. That means they would still be in the league but unable to fulfil their fixtures and would be relegated at the end of the season with the SFL champions promoted to make 12 live teams again. The teams that are scheduled to meet Club 12 would just have a blank weekend - they might be able to arrange a friendly or something.

I imagine with the mutual consent of the 11 functional teams though, the rules could be overridden and any remedy could be established, although Dundee might have an objection to Dunfermline being elected into the league on the grounds that they are specifically ineligible as I described earlier.

All IMHO of course.

[poolman]

I think an 11 team league might be the purest interpretation of the rules. The dying Rangers FC still hold the SPL share and the upcoming and any subsequent votes are to approve (or not as the case may be) the transfer to another club. If that can't be approved RFC(RIP) retain the share until they expire at which point it reverts to the SPL board. That means they would still be in the league but unable to fulfil their fixtures and would be relegated at the end of the season with the SFL champions promoted to make 12 live teams again. The teams that are scheduled to meet Club 12 would just have a blank weekend - they might be able to arrange a friendly or something.

I imagine with the mutual consent of the 11 functional teams though, the rules could be overridden and any remedy could be established, although Dundee might have an objection to Dunfermline being elected into the league on the grounds that they are specifically ineligible as I described earlier.

All IMHO of course.


How about just going for a bevy :greengrin:cheers:

[Lang Toun Hibs]

Possibly changed their mind and didnt see the point after the uncertainty with aberdeens vote? A definate no from them followed by a no from us wouldve put celtic under massive pressure to come out today and finish this thing once and for all

No pressure at all. The Celtic fans I speak to give me the impression that they are rather enjoying the way this is being drawn out. Long slow death seems to suit them quite nicely. From my perspective it doesn't take much to realise The Rangers are going to struggle to get started, let alone get going. Utd, hearts, probably Aberdeen already clearly a no vote. Hibs will be no, Celtic will be no, Motherwell likely to be no, even killie seem to be suggesting they will ask the fans now which will mean a no. They're gubbed.

As for sfl entry, I'm starting to believe there will be so much more to be played out in the courts that will leave The Rangers nothing but a concept with a ground and a training park for a while until all the legal stuff goes away and duff and phelps get found out.

If I was a player, would I want to transfer my contract to The Rangers in the current situation? Of course I wouldn't. I'd want to be a free agent and take a nice signing on fee and get a contract with someone who will pay me a good wage. Once the first one or two walk, the rest will follow.

But The Rangers will be back...some other clubs may follow the same fate but I fear they may not come back.

[down-the-slope]

Beeb Radio reporting that 11 SPL clubs planning a meeting prior to the scheduled 4th July meeting.

Will the second one then be made redundant??:cb

Here's more:

Rangers newco vote implications to be discussed by SPL clubs


Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on 4 July.
All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.
Dundee United and Hearts have already publicly stated they will vote against allowing a new Rangers into the SPL. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483)
BBC Scotland has learned that Aberdeen will also say no to Charles Green's application for his relaunched Rangers to replace the old club.
And Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie previously made it clear that commercial concerns were of secondary importance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18065520) in relation to the integrity of the league.
Kilmarnock are the latest club to say they will canvas supporter opinion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18422397) following similar moves by Inverness, Motherwell and St Mirren.
It is understood the SPL board will make recommendations on various outcomes and scenarios at Thursday's meeting.
Green's consortium, which bought Rangers' assets last week, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18447530)needs the support of seven rival clubs when the SPL vote on the issue.
Should Green's group not get the required 8-4 vote in their favour for top flight football, they would have to apply to fill the vacancy that would be created by a team being promoted from the Scottish Football League.
Rangers Football Club plc entered administration in February over unpaid tax and Revenue and Customs' vote against a company voluntary arrangement proposal prompted the transfer of assets to Green's group and their attempts to replace the old Rangers in the SPL.

I hope thats not the financial situation / TV Deal blah blah...pressure....we need to keep the pressure on and also those who are wavering make it clear you will support (financially) those who support sporting integrity to fill any revenue gap...

[Jim44]

Beeb Radio reporting that 11 SPL clubs planning a meeting prior to the scheduled 4th July meeting.

Will the second one then be made redundant??:cb

Here's more:

Rangers newco vote implications to be discussed by SPL clubs
Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on 4 July.
All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.
Dundee United and Hearts have already publicly stated they will vote against allowing a new Rangers into the SPL. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483)
BBC Scotland has learned that Aberdeen will also say no to Charles Green's application for his relaunched Rangers to replace the old club.
And Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie previously made it clear that commercial concerns were of secondary importance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18065520) in relation to the integrity of the league.Kilmarnock are the latest club to say they will canvas supporter opinion[/URL] following similar moves by
Inverness, Motherwell and St Mirren.
It is understood the SPL board will make recommendations on various outcomes and scenarios at Thursday's meeting.
[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18447530"]Green's consortium, which bought Rangers' assets last week, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18422397)needs the support of seven rival clubs when the SPL vote on the issue.
Should Green's group not get the required 8-4 vote in their favour for top flight football, they would have to apply to fill the vacancy that would be created by a team being promoted from the Scottish Football League.
Rangers Football Club plc entered administration in February over unpaid tax and Revenue and Customs' vote against a company voluntary arrangement proposal prompted the transfer of assets to Green's group and their attempts to replace the old Rangers in the SPL.

First I've heard about Killie doing a U-Turn and becoming all democratic. Has Michael Johnston realised he's put his club out on a limb and now wants to limit the potential damage?

[Just Alf]

@THE_TBK: “@rangerstaxcase: An Unholy Mess http://t.co/Cp05upqP”

New blog up :)

[green glory]

@THE_TBK: “@rangerstaxcase: An Unholy Mess http://t.co/Cp05upqP”

New blog up :)

So CG may not have had the funds to complete the transfer of the assets to the Newco, and the season ticket money might end up going to D+P.

Dearie me.

[SteveHFC]

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/sponsors/fyfemoir-alt.gif

[green glory]

And they wonder why everyone hates them.

Guy working in JJB sports has a wee dig at Rangers fan's expense. By the third page his description, store location and email address for official complaints are there for all to see. All accompanied by the stereotypical Hun response to anything they don't like.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223562&pid=1060144060&st=40&#entry1060144060

[joe breezy]

@BBCAlLamont: Rhys McCabe becomes the first player to officially object to transfer from Rangers to newco. Now exercising his right to leave as free agent

The players are starting to walk away...

Ho Ho Ho

[johnbc70]

@BBCAlLamont: Rhys McCabe becomes the first player to officially object to transfer from Rangers to newco. Now exercising his right to leave as free agent

The players are starting to walk away...

Ho Ho Ho

Once one of the 'big' names walks away the rest will quickly follow - probably too scared to go first as they know what their fans are capable of.

[ronaldo7]

@BBCAlLamont: Rhys McCabe becomes the first player to officially object to transfer from Rangers to newco. Now exercising his right to leave as free agent

The players are starting to walk away...

Ho Ho Ho

Is this the young midfielder who played a stormer against Celtc last year. Decent player:wink:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

"never wrong for long" Wikipedia never fails to disappoint...


Rhys McCabe (born 24 July 1992) is a Scottish footballer, who plays as a central midfielder and is currently a free agent, after walking away from the club formerly known as Rangers.

[Northernhibee]

And they wonder why everyone hates them.

Guy working in JJB sports has a wee dig at Rangers fan's expense. By the third page his description, store location and email address for official complaints are there for all to see. All accompanied by the stereotypical Hun response to anything they don't like.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223562&pid=1060144060&st=40&#entry1060144060

Well, I've e-mailed to saywhat fantastic service I received from this gentleman, really helpful and would make me want to return to JJB in a heartbeat.

GIRUY :giruy: the 'peepul'

[CallumLaidlaw]

Apparently there is a second rangers
Player that has also officially objected. No name yet tho.

[SteveHFC]

Apparently there is a second rangers
Player that has also officially objected. No name yet tho.

Lee McCulloch :greengrin

[tamig]

I can't see an SPL2 happening.

All SFL clubs would vote on it, why would the 20 clubs below this potential new league vote to give up on making money off Rangers, and in some cases to give up a promotion? No chance.

This is a tremendous opportunity to get rid of the farcical SPL once and for all and restructure the game properly. Bigger leagues bringing something a wee bit different. That's what the bulk of fans want. Why are all clubs not lobbying for this change now? There will never be a better opportunity to get rid of this cartel and the ridiculous split.

[brythehibby]

And they wonder why everyone hates them.

Guy working in JJB sports has a wee dig at Rangers fan's expense. By the third page his description, store location and email address for official complaints are there for all to see. All accompanied by the stereotypical Hun response to anything they don't like.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223562&pid=1060144060&st=40&#entry1060144060

After a quick read of that thread on there its easy to see how much **** there is from there fans on that site. Sooner there gone gone the better. I certainly wont miss there vermin fans at games either.

Giving out a guys details of where he works and his appearance so guys can lynch him because he made a passing joke about der huns. Really?

And some people say they feel sorry for the fans! Good riddance

[Crazyhorse]

This is a tremendous opportunity to get rid of the farcical SPL once and for all and restructure the game properly. Bigger leagues bringing something a wee bit different. That's what the bulk of fans want. Why are all clubs not lobbying for this change now? There will never be a better opportunity to get rid of this cartel and the ridiculous split.

Agreed.

[tamig]

After a quick read of that thread on there its easy to see how much **** there is from there fans on that site. Sooner there gone gone the better. I certainly wont miss there vermin fans at games either.

Giving out a guys details of where he works and his appearance so guys can lynch him because he made a passing joke about der huns. Really?

And some people say they feel sorry for the fans! Good riddance

It's almost unbelievable. To be fair, there were a few who agreed that it had gone a bit far but some of the pish on that site is from a different world.

[Lungo--Drom]

An open letter to Charles Green from the supporters:

Dear Mr. Green,
As you know, a general meeting of all 12 member
clubs of the Scottish Premier League has been
convened for 10am on Wednesday 4 July 2012 for
members to consider, and decide upon, your
application for the entry of Newco Rangers to the SPL.
Having considered the matter very carefully, and in
light of recent statements by several SPL clubs, I am
compelled to write to you to implore you to
withdraw your application to the SPL in favour of an
application to the Scottish Football League. I do so in the full knowledge of the financial impact
that such a move will undoubtedly have on the
Rangers Football Club, and the uncertainty that a
self imposed exile to the lower divisions of Scottish
football will inevitably generate. However, I have concluded that it would be a more
honourable course of action to take rather than
have the current gang of hypocritical SPL Club
Chairmen decide our future when they have so
vociferously, and so vindictively, demanded the
most excessive and unprecedented sanctions against our club since we suffered the indignity of
administration several weeks ago.
I’m sure the very public statements made by the
likes of Vladimir Romanov of Hearts, Rod Petrie of
Hibernian and Stephen Thompson of Dundee
United in recent weeks, are ample evidence that the majority of the SPL clubs consider punishing
Rangers as a more important objective than
securing the financial future and wellbeing of the
SPL and the Scottish game in general.
There can be no doubt any longer that these
enemies of Rangers Football Club will vote to exclude a Rangers newco from the SPL, and that
they will do everything in their power to ensure we
are emasculated and hamstrung for years to come.
I have also little doubt their real motivation is sheer,
naked hatred for our club rather than the 'sporting
integrity' that they so glibly and dishonestly espouse.
These are the people in whom you appear to
repose your trust and confidence; people who
have demonstrated that trust, confidence and
fidelity are abstract concepts to be cynically
exploited when circumstances are advantageous to their nefarious plans and plots.
Our club has been subjected to much vitriol and
invective over the past few weeks and months by
the very people who will now sit in judgment on
Rangers, and make their decision about admission,
on 4th July. A decision that we all now know to be a foregone conclusion.
Whilst I have yet to encounter a Rangers fan who
believes that we should not be punished for the
behavior of the miscreants who have brought our
great club to this sorry pass, nor have I met one
who believes we should continue to be punished ad infinitum by a group of SPL chairmen, chief
executives and feckless supporters, who have
been overtly, and unrepentantly, hostile to all
things Rangers for countless years, and who have
been particularly malicious in their attacks upon us
in recent days. We are vulnerable and unable to meaningfully
defend ourselves, and they know it and have
concluded that now is the time to strike. Make no
mistake, this is not about sporting integrity, this is
about hatred and bigotry, and clubs like Dundee
Utd, Aberdeen, Celtic will not forgo this opportunity to kick us (and keep on kicking us) when we are
down.
We now find ourselves in the unenviable position
of being totally, and utterly, at the mercy of a hostile
jury, from whom we can expect no quarter. If five
or more clubs vote against your proposal to admit Rangers to the SPL as a newco, a club from Scottish
Football League Division One will replace us in the
SPL and we will, in all likelihood, apply for the
vacancy that would be created in Division Three
after other clubs have moved up a division.
We now know that will the case. There is no need to speculate any longer, so I ask you to very
seriously consider what merit there is in waiting for
our enemies to stab us in the back on 4th July,
when we can be proactive in our approach to the
Scottish Football League for admission.
We all now unequivocally accept that our circumstances are such that we require to take
drastic measures to set our financial position to
rights. Cuts of the magnitude required will
significantly impact upon our ability to compete in
the SPL, and it is clear that we need time and
patience to rebuild our club and our team free of the enmity and hatred of the SPL cowards who
cynically exploit the label of sporting integrity to
mask their desire to destroy our club
That time will be available to us if we voluntarily
drop to the Scottish Football League, Division 3, and
our time spent in the lower divisions will, hopefully, be concurrent with our three year ban on
participating in the major European competitions.
But, perhaps, more importantly, our decision to
seek admission to the Scottish Football League, will
remove the threat of further draconian
punishments by those who clearly nurture the desire to punish us and wish only to exploit our
commercial potential for their own selfish ends.
During the past few weeks and months, I have
often asked the question, “When does the
punishment stop and the rehabilitation start?”, and
I have reluctantly concluded that the answer is, “When the SPL and the SFA consider that we have
suffered enough!”
Clearly the SPL consider that we have not suffered
enough, and it may be some considerable time
before they decide that the time is right to
rehabilitate the Rangers they so clearly despise. In these circumstances, would it not be more prudent
to negate their vindictiveness and Machiavellian
plotting by removing their power to direct our
future and impair our ability to compete?
Wouldn’t it be a wise and sound strategy to take
control of our own destiny by deciding our own fate?
I think so, and many thousands of other Rangers
fans also take that view.
If you have been monitoring the views and
opinions of Rangers fans across the globe, you
cannot fail to have concluded that there is a groundswell of opinion in favour of the Scottish
Football League, Division 3 route and, in a number
of recent polls on various supporter web sites, fans
have voted overwhelmingly for this option, and
those views have been significantly reinforced by
the statements made by Thompson, Romanov and others over the past two days.
Whilst I fully appreciate these are merely ‘straw’
pools, they are nonetheless persuasive, particularly
in the absence of any other meaningful indicators.
These polls are not the ‘knee – jerk’ reactions of a
few disgruntled Rangers fans but, rather, the considered views of fans who are being treated
unjustly and unreasonably by those who have
failed in their bid to obliterate the club and now
wish to emasculate it by other means.
I, therefore, implore you, Mr. Green, to help us
determine our own future. I ask you to ensure that we are not held to ransom by the SPL and its
member clubs. I implore you to withdraw the
application now before the SPL.
I also ask that you consult with the supporters
before accepting any offer that may emanate from
the SPL, particularly if such an offer is founded upon sanctions that will inevitably cripple our club for
years to come.
The future of our club is dependent upon your
judgement, experience and expertise, although I'm
sure you recognise that your judgement,
experience and expertise has, to all intents and purposes, been negated by the recent
pronouncements of prominent SPL club chairmen.
As you know, it only requires 5 or more clubs to
vote no, and Rangers will need to apply to be
admitted to Scottish Football League Division Three;
so why wait for that to come to passm - we now know it will? Why not take control of our own
destiny and opt for the Scottish Football League?
Let me say in conclusion, that I am, personally, very
appreciative of the commitment you, and your
colleagues, have made to our club in very difficult
and trying circumstances, and I am not unmindful of the personal attacks you have endured in recent
weeks.
Ranger's fans are, understandably, suspicious and
anxious and I know that you appreciate that, even
if, at times, you have found their criticisms
unpalatable. We want only what is right and what is just for our
club. We have seen regime's come and go; we have
seen Chairmen come and go; we have seen Boards
and Directors come and go; we have seen
managers and players come and go - but we
remain! We will always be here, and we will always support
our club. I know you understand that, and I trust
you will immediately withdraw your application for
SPL status.
I have written this as an open letter, and it is my
intention to share it, and your response, with Rangers fans through the various Rangers internet
forums.

[Lungo--Drom]

Here's the actual link to the website with the open letter:

http://rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=795:an-open-letter-to-charles-green&catid=103:board&Itemid=531

Sorry doing this from my mobile. Anyway so now it seems the Rangers fans are trying to act all sorry and innocent and victimised, in between burning down JJB Sports shops and hanging the shop staff from lamp-posts that is.

[Moulin Yarns]

This is a tremendous opportunity to get rid of the farcical SPL once and for all and restructure the game properly. Bigger leagues bringing something a wee bit different. That's what the bulk of fans want. Why are all clubs not lobbying for this change now? There will never be a better opportunity to get rid of this cartel and the ridiculous split.

Considering Donkey Doncaster's objection to the larger league was the NEED to ensure 4 old OF games each season now appears a distant dream, it appears to be a good time to resurrect the larger league debate, especially as the opportunity to get rid of the 11-1 voting structure is also about to become a reality.

[AlbertK86]

An open letter to Charles Green from the supporters:

Dear Mr. Green,
As you know, a general meeting of all 12 member
clubs of the Scottish Premier League has been
convened for 10am on Wednesday 4 July 2012 for
members to consider, and decide upon, your
application for the entry of Newco Rangers to the SPL.
Having considered the matter very carefully, and in
light of recent statements by several SPL clubs, I am
compelled to write to you to implore you to
withdraw your application to the SPL in favour of an
application to the Scottish Football League. I do so in the full knowledge of the financial impact
that such a move will undoubtedly have on the
Rangers Football Club, and the uncertainty that a
self imposed exile to the lower divisions of Scottish
football will inevitably generate. However, I have concluded that it would be a more
honourable course of action to take rather than
have the current gang of hypocritical SPL Club
Chairmen decide our future when they have so
vociferously, and so vindictively, demanded the
most excessive and unprecedented sanctions against our club since we suffered the indignity of
administration several weeks ago.
I’m sure the very public statements made by the
likes of Vladimir Romanov of Hearts, Rod Petrie of
Hibernian and Stephen Thompson of Dundee
United in recent weeks, are ample evidence that the majority of the SPL clubs consider punishing
Rangers as a more important objective than
securing the financial future and wellbeing of the
SPL and the Scottish game in general.
There can be no doubt any longer that these
enemies of Rangers Football Club will vote to exclude a Rangers newco from the SPL, and that
they will do everything in their power to ensure we
are emasculated and hamstrung for years to come.
I have also little doubt their real motivation is sheer,
naked hatred for our club rather than the 'sporting
integrity' that they so glibly and dishonestly espouse.
These are the people in whom you appear to
repose your trust and confidence; people who
have demonstrated that trust, confidence and
fidelity are abstract concepts to be cynically
exploited when circumstances are advantageous to their nefarious plans and plots.
Our club has been subjected to much vitriol and
invective over the past few weeks and months by
the very people who will now sit in judgment on
Rangers, and make their decision about admission,
on 4th July. A decision that we all now know to be a foregone conclusion.
Whilst I have yet to encounter a Rangers fan who
believes that we should not be punished for the
behavior of the miscreants who have brought our
great club to this sorry pass, nor have I met one
who believes we should continue to be punished ad infinitum by a group of SPL chairmen, chief
executives and feckless supporters, who have
been overtly, and unrepentantly, hostile to all
things Rangers for countless years, and who have
been particularly malicious in their attacks upon us
in recent days. We are vulnerable and unable to meaningfully
defend ourselves, and they know it and have
concluded that now is the time to strike. Make no
mistake, this is not about sporting integrity, this is
about hatred and bigotry, and clubs like Dundee
Utd, Aberdeen, Celtic will not forgo this opportunity to kick us (and keep on kicking us) when we are
down.
We now find ourselves in the unenviable position
of being totally, and utterly, at the mercy of a hostile
jury, from whom we can expect no quarter. If five
or more clubs vote against your proposal to admit Rangers to the SPL as a newco, a club from Scottish
Football League Division One will replace us in the
SPL and we will, in all likelihood, apply for the
vacancy that would be created in Division Three
after other clubs have moved up a division.
We now know that will the case. There is no need to speculate any longer, so I ask you to very
seriously consider what merit there is in waiting for
our enemies to stab us in the back on 4th July,
when we can be proactive in our approach to the
Scottish Football League for admission.
We all now unequivocally accept that our circumstances are such that we require to take
drastic measures to set our financial position to
rights. Cuts of the magnitude required will
significantly impact upon our ability to compete in
the SPL, and it is clear that we need time and
patience to rebuild our club and our team free of the enmity and hatred of the SPL cowards who
cynically exploit the label of sporting integrity to
mask their desire to destroy our club
That time will be available to us if we voluntarily
drop to the Scottish Football League, Division 3, and
our time spent in the lower divisions will, hopefully, be concurrent with our three year ban on
participating in the major European competitions.
But, perhaps, more importantly, our decision to
seek admission to the Scottish Football League, will
remove the threat of further draconian
punishments by those who clearly nurture the desire to punish us and wish only to exploit our
commercial potential for their own selfish ends.
During the past few weeks and months, I have
often asked the question, “When does the
punishment stop and the rehabilitation start?”, and
I have reluctantly concluded that the answer is, “When the SPL and the SFA consider that we have
suffered enough!”
Clearly the SPL consider that we have not suffered
enough, and it may be some considerable time
before they decide that the time is right to
rehabilitate the Rangers they so clearly despise. In these circumstances, would it not be more prudent
to negate their vindictiveness and Machiavellian
plotting by removing their power to direct our
future and impair our ability to compete?
Wouldn’t it be a wise and sound strategy to take
control of our own destiny by deciding our own fate?
I think so, and many thousands of other Rangers
fans also take that view.
If you have been monitoring the views and
opinions of Rangers fans across the globe, you
cannot fail to have concluded that there is a groundswell of opinion in favour of the Scottish
Football League, Division 3 route and, in a number
of recent polls on various supporter web sites, fans
have voted overwhelmingly for this option, and
those views have been significantly reinforced by
the statements made by Thompson, Romanov and others over the past two days.
Whilst I fully appreciate these are merely ‘straw’
pools, they are nonetheless persuasive, particularly
in the absence of any other meaningful indicators.
These polls are not the ‘knee – jerk’ reactions of a
few disgruntled Rangers fans but, rather, the considered views of fans who are being treated
unjustly and unreasonably by those who have
failed in their bid to obliterate the club and now
wish to emasculate it by other means.
I, therefore, implore you, Mr. Green, to help us
determine our own future. I ask you to ensure that we are not held to ransom by the SPL and its
member clubs. I implore you to withdraw the
application now before the SPL.
I also ask that you consult with the supporters
before accepting any offer that may emanate from
the SPL, particularly if such an offer is founded upon sanctions that will inevitably cripple our club for
years to come.
The future of our club is dependent upon your
judgement, experience and expertise, although I'm
sure you recognise that your judgement,
experience and expertise has, to all intents and purposes, been negated by the recent
pronouncements of prominent SPL club chairmen.
As you know, it only requires 5 or more clubs to
vote no, and Rangers will need to apply to be
admitted to Scottish Football League Division Three;
so why wait for that to come to passm - we now know it will? Why not take control of our own
destiny and opt for the Scottish Football League?
Let me say in conclusion, that I am, personally, very
appreciative of the commitment you, and your
colleagues, have made to our club in very difficult
and trying circumstances, and I am not unmindful of the personal attacks you have endured in recent
weeks.
Ranger's fans are, understandably, suspicious and
anxious and I know that you appreciate that, even
if, at times, you have found their criticisms
unpalatable. We want only what is right and what is just for our
club. We have seen regime's come and go; we have
seen Chairmen come and go; we have seen Boards
and Directors come and go; we have seen
managers and players come and go - but we
remain! We will always be here, and we will always support
our club. I know you understand that, and I trust
you will immediately withdraw your application for
SPL status.
I have written this as an open letter, and it is my
intention to share it, and your response, with Rangers fans through the various Rangers internet
forums.

poor wee spoilt children

We can't win anymore because we' ve been stopped cheating....

That's it we're no playin anymore... We'll try and find new pals !!!!

Could Not make it up...... Totally deluded

See yiz .... Get tae F*** ya cheating barstewards !!!

[Mon Dieu4]

According to todays record a 6 hour meeting was held yesterday with the SPL and SFA to work out a way to get them into D1, Hopefully more hot air