Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[bighairyfaeleith]

Seen one of the ra people walking past the Edinburgh council HQ this afternoon. Rangers strip, rangers tracky bottoms, bottle of buckie in the hand and of course a union jack wrapped around his shoulders.

The queen must be so proud:greengrin

[jgl07]

In two minds about the P&B post regarding Celtc.

On the one hand, it would appear that they are onside for ensuring the Huns take their punishment and start over in SD3.

On the other hand, it strikes me as Celtc propaganda that they can blackmail the other clubs, and raises the question of how they can get admission to England or elsewhere when UEFA have ruled out clubs transferring to a different country.

Have they? They may say so put their actions do not really match that. It is a question if any such ban would withstand a legal challenge

There are the usual list of anomolies most of which arise where a country has no domestic league: Monaco in the French League, F C Valduz in the Swiss League. There are the Welsh teams that play in the English League system: Cardiff, Swansea, Wexham, Newport, Merthyr and the English team who play in Scotland: Berwick. OK they are all part of long-standing deals.

More recently, Derry were allowed to move from the Irish League to the League of Ireland. Gretna were allowed to move from the English League system to to the SFL not that long ago.

Strangly, Welsh Champions New Saints actually play in England in Oswestry. Chester play (mostly) in Wales.

UEFA believe in the national league system. Other federations are less concerned. There are Canadian team in the US League, a New Zealand team in the Australian League.

There has been suggestions that Celtic could replace Portsmouth in League One in the event of Pompey being liquidated. If the Football League wanted Celtic (a big if), I suspect that any UEFA veto would not stand up in the courts given the above anomolies.

It may be all bluff, but if it gets the right result, who cares?

[johnbc70]

Apparently at the end of the EPL season they will get 1 million from Everton as part of the Jelavic deal. Sky Sports were reporting they run out of Money at the end of the month by which time all their players will be back to their old salaries.

Do they not still owe Rapid Vienna for some of his original fee? If so I hope UEFA step in and ensure Everton pay Rapid Vienna any monies due and if there is a balance left over then Rangers get that.

[bighairyfaeleith]

so if they get liquidated craig whyte could claim ibrox, murray park and start up his rangers 2012 company that he registered a few months back.

Whyte might not be finished with rangers yet??

[Just Alf]

more from Twitter on the muppet Hun supporters

James Cook‏@BBCJamesCook

Miller's adviser, Jon Pritchett, chief executive of Club 9 Sports: "Bill felt like it was a pretty unwelcoming environment." #Rangers #RFC

Bill Miller's adviser says the American was getting hundreds of "vitriol and expletive-filled" emails a day. #RFC #Rangers



Quality, they sure don't miss when shooting themselves in the foot :greengrin

[SurferRosa]

Exclusive footage of Bill Miller moments after seeing the Rangers books

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/jimswanson/funny-gif-guy-jumps-out-window.gif


:faf: :faf:

[grunt]

What is this from the learned Graham Spiers? Is it sarcasm? Irony? :dunno:


Graham Spiers‏@GrahamSpiersWhat a daft tool Bill Miller is. Rangers – as hopeless and undignified as this club now looks – are better off without him. Waste of space

[CropleyWasGod]

so if they get liquidated craig whyte could claim ibrox, murray park and start up his rangers 2012 company that he registered a few months back.

Whyte might not be finished with rangers yet??

Don't see it that way. His security is worthless.

[Saorsa]

i would like to start the ball rolling with a .net contribution to the hun fund


http://mammasaurus.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/2_92r.jpg


spend it wisely McCoist

mind ma change I'll donate one of these, I'm feeling generous today :greengrin

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/kena/2009323_brrazoo1.gif

[bighairyfaeleith]

Don't see it that way. His security is worthless.

whats his angle been then, unless he has pocketed a load of cash or was hoping he would get something for his shares I don't see what he has gained.

He bought the club for nowt, put nowt in and so it ran out of cash as it spends more than it takes in. He then puts it into administration (with help of the VAT man) and gets nothing as it ends up liquidated.

Surely we don't have the full picture yet???

[grunt]

more from Twitter on the muppet Hun supporters...
Quality, they sure don't miss when shooting themselves in the foot :greengrin

There was a good one from Limmy (who I don't usually find funny):


Drowning Rangers fan offered help by man in lifeboat. Hears American accent. Tells him to **** off. Drowns.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Apparently at the end of the EPL season they will get 1 million from Everton as part of the Jelavic deal. Sky Sports were reporting they run out of Money at the end of the month by which time all their players will be back to their old salaries.




good, they only have to add 400K to that million and then give it to rapid vienna, it would be the honourable thing to do, confucius say 'pay ones debts and be respected' if not, i hope rapid take legal action to stop the thieves getting it





well, maybe it wasn't confucius that said it

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'll donate one of these, I'm feeling generous today :greengrin

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/kena/2009323_brrazoo1.gif


wtf's that :confused:

[jgl07]

Do they not still owe Rapid Vienna for some of his original fee? If so I hope UEFA step in and ensure Everton pay Rapid Vienna any monies due and if there is a balance left over then Rangers get that.

Maybe Hearts will have something to say on this issue?

The transfer rules are ridiculous. OK Rangers negotiated a payment by installments for Jelavic, but once they sold him on to Everton, the balance should be due and paid in full before the second transfer can take place.

If I buy a house using a 25-year mortgage, I have to pay off the outstanding balance before I can sell the house.

[Saorsa]

wtf's that :confused:It says on it :greengrin It's a brass razoo

[cabbageandribs1875]

It says on it :greengrin It's a brass razoo


are yi getting mixed up wae alison moyet's group yazoo :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

whats his angle been then, unless he has pocketed a load of cash or was hoping he would get something for his shares I don't see what he has gained.

He bought the club for nowt, put nowt in and so it ran out of cash as it spends more than it takes in. He then puts it into administration (with help of the VAT man) and gets nothing as it ends up liquidated.

Surely we don't have the full picture yet???

He gambled and lost, basically.

The gamble was on getting CL football. The money earned from that would have kept Ticketus happy, and gradually he would have been able to fill in the black hole that he created when he "bought" the club.

Malmo screwed that bet.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i was looking for a photo of a penny farthing and got this :(

http://www.pepcak.webzdarma.cz/pict0005.JPG

super sally could use it as his new club transport

[Saorsa]

i was looking for a photo of a penny farthing and got this :(

http://www.pepcak.webzdarma.cz/pict0005.JPG

super sally could use it as his new club transportwhat were you expecting like? :greengrin

[johnbc70]

He gambled and lost, basically.

The gamble was on getting CL football. The money earned from that would have kept Ticketus happy, and gradually he would have been able to fill in the black hole that he created when he "bought" the club.

Malmo screwed that bet.

I think we all have a duty to adopt the might Malmo as our 'Swedish Team' I think their part in this hilarious episode has been underestimated and one day maybe they will get the recognition they deserve. :greengrin

[HFC 0-7]

good, they only have to add 400K to that million and then give it to rapid vienna, it would be the honourable thing to do, confucius say 'pay ones debts and be respected' if not, i hope rapid take legal action to stop the thieves getting it





well, maybe it wasn't confucius that said it

Pretty sure d&p will have Everton down as a debtor and d&p wont be able to give any one club their full debt when there are other creditors awaiting to be paid. What would be interesting is if they used the million to try and stay alive a little longer to try and find a buyer. Surely the creditors must see that the longer this drags on the less money there will be to pass out at the end. Is there no way the creditors can say enough is enough and push the admins to start putting money together.

[grunt]

what were you expecting like? :greengrinheh heh
I think he was looking for this

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTt2VBb6CXxiN37fh88J_rHivqy5HFfq-NfSieeecHssa5ZuPM1

[cabbageandribs1875]

what were you expecting like? :greengrin




there's a penny farthing coin :agree: probably in circulation the last time we won the SC :greengrin



p.s. that's the fella grunt :aok:

[Saorsa]

there's a penny farthing coin :agree: probably in circulation the last time we won the SC :greengrin



p.s. that's the fella grunt :aok:sure the coin is just called a farthing without the penny bit :greengrin

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UOnuGU3RXVE/SPRhu5XPxWI/AAAAAAAAAM4/HDDmJ3XRiRI/s400/farthing.jpg

[grunt]

It's just called a farthing - worth a quarter of a penny.
Hence the name for the bike, a penny farthing, with the big wheel as the penny, and the small wheel... well, you get the picture.
Hope this helps.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Pretty sure d&p will have Everton down as a debtor and d&p wont be able to give any one club their full debt when there are other creditors awaiting to be paid. What would be interesting is if they used the million to try and stay alive a little longer to try and find a buyer. Surely the creditors must see that the longer this drags on the less money there will be to pass out at the end. Is there no way the creditors can say enough is enough and push the admins to start putting money together.


that would have been my next Q, all monies appear to be going into the coffers, and none going out(bar wages)

[Saorsa]

It's just called a farthing - worth a quarter of a penny.
Hence the name for the bike, a penny farthing, with the big wheel as the penny, and the small wheel... well, you get the picture.
Hope this helps.I know that :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

sure the coin is just call a farthing without the penny bit :greengrin

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UOnuGU3RXVE/SPRhu5XPxWI/AAAAAAAAAM4/HDDmJ3XRiRI/s400/farthing.jpg


cute wee bird :greengrin


It's just called a farthing - worth a quarter of a penny.
Hence the name for the bike, a penny farthing, with the big wheel as the penny, and the small wheel... well, you get the picture.
Hope this helps.

learn something new every day, ta :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Anyone else having trouble getting on RangersMedia forum? Dying for a good giggle and it won't let me in.

[SteveHFC]

Anyone else having trouble getting on RangersMedia forum? Dying for a good giggle and it won't let me in.

forum.rangersmedia.co.uk Driver Error There appears to be an error with the database. :faf:
:faf:

[Just Alf]

that would have been my next Q, all monies appear to be going into the coffers, and none going out(bar wages)


Yup... Duff and Duffer are trying to keep the club "turning over" until a buyer is found.... this was figured the best way for the creditors to maximise any return.

They'd rapidly getting to the stage where a decision is going to be made on whether to keep going (needs light at the end of the tunnel tho) or if that's just throwing good money after bad and file for liquidation (assuming there's nothing in the pot to even offer half pence in the pound CVA in the wild hope it would be accepted!)

I guess D-Day is next week some time when the players wages revert to pre-admin levels

[Just Alf]

forum.rangersmedia.co.uk Driver Error There appears to be an error with the database. :faf:
:faf:

Aye!... they didn't pay the Driver and he's pi**ed off! :greengrin

[stokesmessiah]

Yup... Duff and Duffer are trying to keep the club "turning over" until a buyer is found.... this was figured the best way for the creditors to maximise any return.

They'd rapidly getting to the stage where a decision is going to be made on whether to keep going (needs light at the end of the tunnel tho) or if that's just throwing good money after bad and file for liquidation (assuming there's nothing in the pot to even offer half pence in the pound CVA in the wild hope it would be accepted!)

I guess D-Day is next week some time when the players wages revert to pre-admin levels

My crystal ball predicts a desperate attempt by D&P to ask the players to hold off on their wages again?

[grunt]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but I've just seen it.
Good reading, great research.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/neil-doncaster-predicted-financial-disaster-before-was-he-right/

[jgl07]

My crystal ball predicts a desperate attempt by D&P to ask the players to hold off on their wages again?

No chance the window will be open when the deal expires.

The players, or rather the good ones, will start walking.

[Sylar]

Is there any way we can have the best of both worlds, whereby Rangers go into the third division and Celtic f*** off at the same time?

What a superb season that would amount too - even Dunfermline fans would struggle not to crack a smile if that came to pass :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

http://i.imgur.com/VDNsL.gif

[Hibrandenburg]

Yup... Duff and Duffer are trying to keep the club "turning over" until a buyer is found.... this was figured the best way for the creditors to maximise any return.

They'd rapidly getting to the stage where a decision is going to be made on whether to keep going (needs light at the end of the tunnel tho) or if that's just throwing good money after bad and file for liquidation (assuming there's nothing in the pot to even offer half pence in the pound CVA in the wild hope it would be accepted!)

I guess D-Day is next week some time when the players wages revert to pre-admin levels

I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately for them its the Liquidation Express running from the SPL to Div 3.

[grunt]

Saw this on another site

Panic at Rangers as "Yanks go home" banner sees Edu, Bedoya and Bocanegra board flights to USA.
So does Kyle Lafferty, who misread it....

[CallumLaidlaw]

@NewsnightScot: Tonight, the latest #Rangers developments and an interview with Bill Miller's friend Jon Pritchett. 11pm on BBC2. #newsnicht

[Brando7]

wonder if they will do a hearts n delay the players wages come end of the month :greengrin

[Minder]

i would like to start the ball rolling with a .net contribution to the hun fund


http://mammasaurus.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/2_92r.jpg


spend it wisely McCoist

mind ma change

I will chip in
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQupLhJBYtJ72VDMSvAEhCRLDu-YLmmk0hRNvXf37KD4o9H3Yb2g

[Minder]

Just thought, should their current party song now be called Half Penny Arcade ? :greengrin

[jgl07]

Is there any way we can have the best of both worlds, whereby Rangers go into the third division and Celtic f*** off at the same time?

What a superb season that would amount too - even Dunfermline fans would struggle not to crack a smile if that came to pass :greengrin

There would be one liquidation missing!

[stokesmessiah]

Never seen this, statement from D&P.


BILL MILLER has announced that he has withdrawn his offer for Rangers and administrators Duff & Phelps have announced that three other bidders are in play.David Whitehouse, joint administrator, said: "We can confirm that Mr Bill Miller has decided not to complete his purchase of Rangers Football Club."Since Mr Miller was announced as preferred bidder on Thursday of last week, it is regrettable that more progress could not be made to further the sale of the Club."We have been informed by his advisors that there were a number of issues with which he felt uncomfortable including legacy contracts, the limitation of potential revenue streams and the expectation of required investment."As in any company takeover, the selection of a preferred bidder does not guarantee the completion of the sale. In this case, with time and money for Rangers running out quickly, it was essential to move the process forward with urgency. Mr Miller's bid was deliverable to creditors and was the only deliverable bid on the table at that time. We had no other unconditional bid."Given the fact that Mr Miller did not enter into an exclusivity agreement, we informed all other known potential bidders at the time the door was not closed."As a consequence of Mr Miller's bid being accepted, three other bidders have come forward to express their interest in buying the Club and these offers are being evaluated with the utmost urgency."There is every opportunity for these bidders to now complete the purchase of the Club prior to the end of the season."

[PatHead]

Never seen this, statement from D&P.


BILL MILLER has announced that he has withdrawn his offer for Rangers and administrators Duff & Phelps have announced that three other bidders are in play.David Whitehouse, joint administrator, said: "We can confirm that Mr Bill Miller has decided not to complete his purchase of Rangers Football Club."Since Mr Miller was announced as preferred bidder on Thursday of last week, it is regrettable that more progress could not be made to further the sale of the Club."We have been informed by his advisors that there were a number of issues with which he felt uncomfortable including legacy contracts, the limitation of potential revenue streams and the expectation of required investment."As in any company takeover, the selection of a preferred bidder does not guarantee the completion of the sale. In this case, with time and money for Rangers running out quickly, it was essential to move the process forward with urgency. Mr Miller's bid was deliverable to creditors and was the only deliverable bid on the table at that time. We had no other unconditional bid."Given the fact that Mr Miller did not enter into an exclusivity agreement, we informed all other known potential bidders at the time the door was not closed."As a consequence of Mr Miller's bid being accepted, three other bidders have come forward to express their interest in buying the Club and these offers are being evaluated with the utmost urgency."There is every opportunity for these bidders to now complete the purchase of the Club prior to the end of the season."


Oh aye, sold by Sunday. Would struggle to buy a car in that time!

[SJNB Hibby]

Quiet day at work-decided to sign up for swallow swallow. UN BE LIE VA BLE
One knuckle draggers main concern is that they have to work their way back up from Divi 3, but there's no SPL when they get there!!:rolleyes:

[Cabbage East]

Very interesting post on another forum...


[QUOTE] For those asking about licences and transfers... (Long and boring, but will put the lie to any Newco gaining automatic entry into ANY Scottish league next season) The most important part regards being an SFA member for at least three years and the non-transferral of a club licence.


From the Scottish Football Association rules on Club Licensing (specifically Part 3, Section 03 – The Club as Licence Applicant and the UEFA Licence). Emphasis ours.

"3.1.1 The Licence Applicant may only be a football club, that is the legal entity fully responsible for the football team participating in national and international competitions and which is the legal entity member of the Scottish Football Association (Full or Associate Member). The licence applicant is responsible for the fulfillment of the club licensing criteria. This membership must have been in place at the start of the licence season for a minimum period of three consecutive years.

[...]

3.3.1 UEFA Licence Awards for Scottish Premier League Clubs (SPL)
A Licence cannot be transferred from one legal entity to another."

NB: "UEFA Licence" does not denote a licence to compete in UEFA competitions, which are governed by an entirely different set of criteria. As the SFA website explains:

"National Club Licensing applies to Scottish FA member clubs and UEFA Club Licensing applies to Scottish Premier League clubs."

In other words, to play in the SPL you must have a UEFA Club Licence, regardless of whether you actually compete in UEFA competitions or not. (SFL clubs, who in normal circumstances wouldn't be expected to qualify for European tournaments, are dealt with separately via an "extraordinary procedure" in the event that they do.)

So, should Rangers FC be subject to liquidation and then reborn as a "newco", the new company would NOT be eligible for the licence required to play in the SPL, for at least three years. Furthermore, it is plainly and explicitly forbidden under SFA rules for such a licence to be transferred from one legal entity (Rangers FC) to another (New Rangers FC 2012)

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartThree-UEFAClubLicensing/03%20The%20Club%20as%20Licence%20Applicant%20and%2 0Licence%20(2).pdf [\QUOTE]

[Paisley Hibby]

This is worth a read! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17999964

[Minder]

Very interesting post on another forum...


[QUOTE] For those asking about licences and transfers... (Long and boring, but will put the lie to any Newco gaining automatic entry into ANY Scottish league next season) The most important part regards being an SFA member for at least three years and the non-transferral of a club licence.


From the Scottish Football Association rules on Club Licensing (specifically Part 3, Section 03 – The Club as Licence Applicant and the UEFA Licence). Emphasis ours.

"3.1.1 The Licence Applicant may only be a football club, that is the legal entity fully responsible for the football team participating in national and international competitions and which is the legal entity member of the Scottish Football Association (Full or Associate Member). The licence applicant is responsible for the fulfillment of the club licensing criteria. This membership must have been in place at the start of the licence season for a minimum period of three consecutive years.

[...]

3.3.1 UEFA Licence Awards for Scottish Premier League Clubs (SPL)
A Licence cannot be transferred from one legal entity to another."

NB: "UEFA Licence" does not denote a licence to compete in UEFA competitions, which are governed by an entirely different set of criteria. As the SFA website explains:

"National Club Licensing applies to Scottish FA member clubs and UEFA Club Licensing applies to Scottish Premier League clubs."

In other words, to play in the SPL you must have a UEFA Club Licence, regardless of whether you actually compete in UEFA competitions or not. (SFL clubs, who in normal circumstances wouldn't be expected to qualify for European tournaments, are dealt with separately via an "extraordinary procedure" in the event that they do.)

So, should Rangers FC be subject to liquidation and then reborn as a "newco", the new company would NOT be eligible for the licence required to play in the SPL, for at least three years. Furthermore, it is plainly and explicitly forbidden under SFA rules for such a licence to be transferred from one legal entity (Rangers FC) to another (New Rangers FC 2012)

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartThree-UEFAClubLicensing/03 The Club as Licence Applicant and Licence (2).pdf [\QUOTE]

If for example club X with big brand and heritage was liquidated, is anyone aware of any impediment to club C to buying club X main assets and changing name, colours etc to X2013 for example. Surely above licence issue would not be a factor? Not that this is likely to happen, just beinghttps://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmzus4EawsbXpFhuWdbR__l92qBJ6Bp WXRHjpEGL4Kztgzcvuu


:greengrin

[ehf]

This is worth a read! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17999964

Great piece. No sympathy with Der Hun but if I were them I would be looking at Duff + Phelps as the real villain of the piece. Totally out of their depth. Taken circa 5 million in fees and costs (straight from operating income) but have sold the club and the creditors down the river. Best hope for creditors is a negligence suite against them.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Just thought, should their current party song now be called Half Penny Arcade ? :greengrin


:top marks

[Lungo--Drom]

Which is why every decent trader in Scotland, every ice cream seller, hot dog seller, fish'n'chip stall, programme printer, merchandise maker, kit maker, advertising agency, website provider, ANY service provider should stand up for those same companies / traders already shafted by these corrupt numbnuts and REFUSE TO TRADE at all with RFC, 'Oldco' or 'Newco'. Obviously some bluenose nutters who have businesses will keep trading with them for reasons of 'loyalty' (or is that loyalism) but even they will back off eventually when they know it is a choice between feeding their family or feeding the lie.


They're not ... it will just be added to their list of creditors!

[TowerHibs]

This is worth a read! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17999964

We needed business journalists doing this from the start and not chick young and Jonathan Sutherland asking nonsense questions.

This certianly paints a very bleak picture

[Jack]

This is worth a read! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17999964

The most fascinating part of that for me was its the first time someone has attempted a quote at the Blew it Nights offer.

£1,500,000

And that maybe includes the worst ever Hibbys contribution!

And they wanted Snow Whites shares thrown in as well as Broxy Bears town and country houses :-D

Its been a long time since my flabber has been so gasted =-O

This is absolutely priceless.

[stokesmessiah]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4305528/New-bidders-close-in-on-Craig-dealers.html

The Sun running with a Whytes Knights to save the club story?

[seanshow]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4305528/New-bidders-close-in-on-Craig-dealers.html

The Sun running with a Whytes Knights to save the club story?


lol I wonder how that fits in with his lifetime ban with any club in Scottish football. Even if he is not directly involved this is clutching at straws now surely.

[Hibrandenburg]

Hopefully no where around this vicinity, although Darwen could do with a bit of a shake up :)

Sounds like a good match. Dar wen and der Hun. Can't imagine that even anyone on here would have anything against that :-)

[Hibrandenburg]

Hopefully no where around this vicinity, although Darwen could do with a bit of a shake up :)

Sounds like a good match. Dar wen and der Hun. Can't imagine that even anyone on here would have anything against that :-)

[ScottB]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4305528/New-bidders-close-in-on-Craig-dealers.html

The Sun running with a Whytes Knights to save the club story?

Seriously? They expect people to believe that?

I can't believe there hasn't been much of a hint of discontent with the tabloids from the Rangers fans, this reads as yet another bit of made up nonsense!

[seanshow]

On Radio Scotland this morning there is a Rangers debate/phone in on the Call Kay show, and it is comedy Gold :thumbsup:
Well worth a listen, including the female host who has no knowledge of football telling the Rangers fan to Zip it! :greengrin.........Plenty raging huns trying to blame Graham Spiers (who is also on the show) for the clubs demise. Crazy!!

[TheEastTerrace]

On Radio Scotland this morning there is Rangers debate/phone in on the Call Kay show, and it is comedy Gold :thumbsup:
Well worth a listen, including the female host who has no knowledge of football telling the Rangers fan to Zip it! :greengrin.........Plenty raging huns trying to blame Graham Spiers (who is also on the show) for the clubs demise. Crazy!!

Too many of them have read David Legget's ramblings and rants about Spiers, although his nickname for Spiers tickles me - 'odious creep' :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Meanwhile, Rangers fans are bewildered by Wild Bill saying he felt unwelcome - "I don't know where he is getting the 'Yanks go home' line from".

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/05/09/rangers-in-crisis-bill-miller-accused-of-using-fans-as-scapegoat-as-he-backs-out-of-deal-to-buy-rangers-86908-23852964/

[Lungo--Drom]

A further expanded BBC Sport news item which is the same as yesterday's but expands and repeats all the reasons that Bill Miller pulled out of his bid for:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/17996474 :coffee:

The bit that amazes me is that this news item basically lists all the financial reasons why no-one apart from a suicidal true blue RFC fan would even bother wasting their money on this farce. There are more than enough reasons in Bill's list for never even considering buying this financial basket case and that's before we consider the non-financial reason, aka the vitriolic bile directed at Bill Miller :foot: A word of warning to any blue nose thnking of stepping in to the chasm, I don't think even a declared true blue will be safe from the bile and vitriol because Bill's spokesman has made it clear what we all knew anyway :protest: The accounts are a total shambles and and have been for years. Anyone, ANYONE, who wants to buy Der Hun FC will have to do all the things Bill Miller was going to do, i.e. cut spending to virtually nothing for quite some time. The "Raith Rovers fire bomber" squad :timebomb: will have plenty of bile and bomb threats for whoever wants to buy the club. They're that daft, and have probably pissed off the one semi decent bid they were going to get. Bill Miller might be a Yank but guaranteed he knows about money, so all the things his spokesman says needed done at the club will still be needing done, no matter who puts in a successful bid and so the "fans" will turn on no matter who ends up owning the whole sorry mess.

What I want to know is, who is working the strings of Duff & Phelps? :paranoid: It seems that their actions are NOT in the interests of the creditors but ARE in the interests of keeping the "sporting tradition" (bleuchhh....) of RFC alive. As quite a few other posters have pointed out this is contrary to duties of their task and possibly the law :rules: Is some high power blue noser in an influential position in society sitting in his big office somewhere with a blue framed photo of the Der Huns team on the wall phoning D&P every morning telling them to "keep looking for bidders" or he'll have them shot? :dead:

[green glory]

Been trying to get on Hunmedia all morning. Still locked out. Pity 'cos I was looking forward to shrieking in mockery at their suffering.

Sometime between Monday and June 1st blue lemmings will be jumping in their thousands off all the bridges along the Clyde.

[stokesmessiah]

Meanwhile, Rangers fans are bewildered by Wild Bill saying he felt unwelcome - "I don't know where he is getting the 'Yanks go home' line from".

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/05/09/rangers-in-crisis-bill-miller-accused-of-using-fans-as-scapegoat-as-he-backs-out-of-deal-to-buy-rangers-86908-23852964/

I wet myself when i read that this morning....Eh maybe from the big banner saying "Yank Go Home"???

[Lungo--Drom]

:thumbsup: :faf:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBfqABtOoxI

[Lungo--Drom]

I just read the "official" statement from Der Huns on their website about why Bill Miller pulled out from his bid. This is priceless, like something in the old Soviet Union Pravda newspaper, aka blatant bollocks tarted up for the loyal faithful to somehow delude themselves into believing:

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2764178

Funny how they don't mention this aspect below....

[SAFETY WARNING: The following image contains multiple incidences of adult delusionals in a mutually agreed stance, also quite a lot of ugly fat people too]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60100000/jpg/_60100489_miller_protest1_sns.jpg

:faf: :faf: :faf: :faf: :faf:

[calmac12000]

Och it seems no matter how much things change you can rely on the Scottish media to try and ensure things remain the same, The crass and frankly unbelievable drivel emanating from the so-called popular press in this country would be hard pushed to convince a class load of primary school kids.Considering how out of touch with reality the average Hun is, perhaps we should realise that being spoon fed dross for umpteen years is a significant factor in this state of affairs. To me it is not just this rotten institution in Govan that needs reform, but also the ignorant media outlets who for years have cravenly excused the actions of this club and its supporters that needs to get their house in order.

[Just Alf]

And now the Rangers players are in the mix (and not happy!!!) as well...... that CVA is looking less and less likely by the minute.... Liquidsor time!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/05/09/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-players-demand-urgent-talks-with-administrators-as-the-search-resumes-for-a-buyer-86908-23853179/

[shagpile]

And now the Rangers players are in the mix (and not happy!!!) as well...... that CVA is looking less and less likely by the minute.... Liquidsor time!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/05/09/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-players-demand-urgent-talks-with-administrators-as-the-search-resumes-for-a-buyer-86908-23853179/

I thought they were dyed in the wool huns? Play for the mighty 'gers for nothing? No club in the world like renjurs.Tough **** & Ta Ta.

[poolman]

Sorry if already been posted but another great blog from Paul Mcconville

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/so-farewell-then-bill-miller-we-hardly-knew-you-but-three-new-bidders-for-rangers-appear/

[CropleyWasGod]

I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

[matty_f]

I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

Miller's not skint, and I'd be surprised if there are many more that would have similar resources to Miller that haven't already made themselves known. Above that, the fact that Miller needed less than a weekend to decide that it was way worse than the administrators had made out, should be ringing alarm bells with any prospective bidders.

I think that we may well see someone else get a chance to look at the books, but I think the outcome will be the same - as soon as they see the true scale of the problems and how financially infeasible it is, they'll bolt as well.

[green glory]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/next-24-48-hours-vital-rangers/1422

New Alex Thomson blog.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/next-24-48-hours-vital-rangers/1422

New Alex Thomson blog.

Interesting stuff.

But still with the CVA? :confused:

[Caversham Green]

I know there is a lot of scepticism, on here and in the media, about the emergence of the "new" bidders.

It wouldn't surprise me that they do exist, TBH. The Miller bid finally put to bed the notion that a CVA was the only option. Now that D & P have shown that they will be open to Miller-type deals, others may be more interested.

One thing is for sure, though. With the cash running out, a prospective purchaser has the admins over a barrel, price-wise.

Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

[CropleyWasGod]

Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

One would think so, but they still seem to be persisting with that notion, given Alex Thomson and the Sun's latest story.

[ScottB]

Interesting stuff.

But still with the CVA? :confused:

It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

[Jim44]

And now the Rangers players are in the mix (and not happy!!!) as well...... that CVA is looking less and less likely by the minute.... Liquidsor time!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/05/09/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-players-demand-urgent-talks-with-administrators-as-the-search-resumes-for-a-buyer-86908-23853179/


I thought they were dyed in the wool huns? Play for the mighty 'gers for nothing? No club in the world like renjurs.Tough **** & Ta Ta.

Surprise,surprise, the players are coming to their senses. There's an empty ring to "Rangers don't do walking away." No Sally, but your players might prefer 'running away'. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

No.

David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five.

I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.

[shagpile]

It is bizarre that people keep assuming this to be a strategy, unless they have a truly vast amount of money to do it.

The issue is still that this needs to happen in a week. Can a group do due diligence, come to an agreement with the creditors, settle the football debts and be approved by the SFA / SPL in a week?

Duff & Phelps seem to think anything is possible. Someone must be taking a long hard look at their part in this mess. It started off a mess when they were appointed, it has now become a fiasco.

[TornadoHibby]

Miller's not skint, and I'd be surprised if there are many more that would have similar resources to Miller that haven't already made themselves known. Above that, the fact that Miller needed less than a weekend to decide that it was way worse than the administrators had made out, should be ringing alarm bells with any prospective bidders.

I think that we may well see someone else get a chance to look at the books, but I think the outcome will be the same - as soon as they see the true scale of the problems and how financially infeasible it is, they'll bolt as well.

Hypothetically speaking, the proposed structure for Miller's (now abortive) acquisition is not uncommon in non football club insolvencies and, I imagine, had it not been for the "football related" ramifications of liquidation of RFC, this would have been the way forward from the outset! :agree:

[grunt]

No. David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five. I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.That may be the case regarding cashflow and the admins ability to continue trading, but are there football deadlines which require the SPL share to be transferred to Newco before the end of the season? If RFC disappear during the close season, is that the end of their chances of getting Newco into the SPL?

[Caversham Green]

One would think so, but they still seem to be persisting with that notion, given Alex Thomson and the Sun's latest story.

The bit I don't get there is - where have these people been since Valentine's Day? A wise man said ealier on this very thread 'If it seems too good to be true it usually is'. This story falls into that category IMO.

[StevieC]

"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement. :rolleyes:

[down-the-slope]

Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

In the real world...correct...in the fantasy parallel universe that is Scottish football :rolleyes:

I'm surprised people are surprised that there are other bidders.....We are at the point where a club with book asset value of circa £110million is being hawked for less than the combined annual salaries of 10 of their players.....

With the gap between CVA 'value' and liquidation 'value' having reached the bottom...asset vultures are sure to be looking at the pickings....I have said this several times but the cash flow / business plan of a 'Rangers' playing in Europe and one not is massive and insurmountable...IF UEFA stick to banning them for 3 years (noises being that they will treat what ever the resultant club is as if liquidated...as any CVA would not be real world) then they need either massive 3 year deficit funding.....or to be radically pruned to the kind of budget the rest of SPL (barring Celtic) are used to.....this would mean even if in SPL the big draw of OF could be a sweepstake of how many Celtic can put past them...not the 'spectical' that TV want....

Any buyer with nouse (and a tin helmet) would see that Div 3 and working up would be better as teh cost cutting would be easier to hide down there...can you imagine the Bears in the SPL un able to compete (very funny if Gers didnt make top 6.....no 4 OF games then...cue another change to rules / reconstruction).......

The next big moment will be the players walking / being let go as new owners can't afford to carry their cost :greengrin

[ehf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18002865

Supporters chief Andy Kerr has rejected suggestions that fan opposition is to blame for Bill Miller's decision to withdraw his takeover bid for Rangers.

The American trucking tycoon had cited anti-Miller banners as one of the reasons for his decision.

But Supporters' Assembly president Kerr said: "We are talking a few people here and it is disappointing when people are effectively pre-judging the guy.

Who are these few people? In the interests of transparency and accountability they must be publicly identified.

[jonty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18002284


Administrators at Rangers have resumed their search for a buyer for the club
after the US businessman who was the preferred bidder announced his withdrawal.


One of Bill Miller's advisors - Jon Pritchett - told the BBC's Newsnight
Scotland programme there were three main factors influencing his decision.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the real world...correct...in the fantasy parallel universe that is Scottish football :rolleyes:

I'm surprised people are surprised that there are other bidders.....We are at the point where a club with book asset value of circa £110million is being hawked for less than the combined annual salaries of 10 of their players.....

With the gap between CVA 'value' and liquidation 'value' having reached the bottom...asset vultures are sure to be looking at the pickings....I have said this several times but the cash flow / business plan of a 'Rangers' playing in Europe and one not is massive and insurmountable...IF UEFA stick to banning them for 3 years (noises being that they will treat what ever the resultant club is as if liquidated...as any CVA would not be real world) then they need either massive 3 year deficit funding.....or to be radically pruned to the kind of budget the rest of SPL (barring Celtic) are used to.....this would mean even if in SPL the big draw of OF could be a sweepstake of how many Celtic can put past them...not the 'spectical' that TV want....

Any buyer with nouse (and a tin helmet) would see that Div 3 and working up would be better as teh cost cutting would be easier to hide down there...can you imagine the Bears in the SPL un able to compete (very funny if Gers didnt make top 6.....no 4 OF games then...cue another change to rules / reconstruction).......

The next big moment will be the players walking / being let go as new owners can't afford to carry their cost :greengrin

One wonders if the so-called new bidders are in fact vultures getting in early.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18002284

I watched that interview.

The guy (Miller's associate) came across as very knowledgable about fitba,the culture and the practicalities RFC are facing.

[jgl07]

Duff & Phelps seem to think anything is possible. Someone must be taking a long hard look at their part in this mess. It started off a mess when they were appointed, it has now become a fiasco.

The fundamental problem is that Rangers in their current form are economically unviable. That is how they got into this situation in the first place.

They see themselves as a top European team but are competing with club who have far greater spending power. SPL TV revenue will not cut it in comparison with the big-five European Leagues or even in comparison to the Dutch League.

They have a large stadium and a large fanbase. But their support is very fickle and and will melt away if Rangers are performing to their expectations.

Celtic do appear to be viable but have a bigger stadium and a bigger fanbase than Rangers. They sailed close to the wind themselves in the 1990s but got the infrastructure in place in the times of plenty and seem to be well run from a financial viewpoint. This may be a legacy of the Fergus McCann era. I don't see a Fergus McCann coming to the rescue of Rangers.

It is telling that the only bid from Scotland do date has been from the Blue Knights. They are there through emotion rather than financial acumen. The bids from outside have probably been lodged in ignorance thinking that a team with a 50,000 capacity stadium with an average attendance of over 45,000 must be a money making machine. As soon as the likes of Miller and Ng get to look closely at the finances they run a mile.

Maybe Duff and Phelps were under the same misapprehension and that has coloured their actions?

[Just Alf]

Sorry if already been posted but another great blog from Paul Mcconville

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/so-farewell-then-bill-miller-we-hardly-knew-you-but-three-new-bidders-for-rangers-appear/

Always seems a source of the most realistic view in all this :-)

"There comes a point where there is very little more that can be said, as the absurdity of the situation beats any commentary that can be offered. We are at that point now.

Maybe there is every opportunity for the chosen bidder to finish things by the end of the season. There is every opportunity for me to win gold in the Olympic 100m this year. However, whilst the opportunity is there, the reality is well nigh impossible.

In the same way, how is a bidder going to be accepted, do due diligence and get SPL and SFA approval, all in three days?

I am sure that D&P have a clever plan. They must have because otherwise it would just look as if they were floundering about in the dark, with no idea from one day to the next what was happening"


:thumbsup:

[Hibs Class]

"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement. :rolleyes:

I thought the players had agreed to wage cuts rather than wage deferrals? If they are still earning their pre-administration pay and have, for example, rights to a % of unpaid wages under a CVA then that would seem like more negligence by D&P as they would have only manipulated cash flow rather than taking cost out of the business.

[ScottB]

No.

David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five.

I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.

But surely that we now approach the summer, they have zero income, their outgoings are about to shoot up, will there not be pressure from the courts to pull the plug after this week?

[down-the-slope]

One wonders if the so-called new bidders are in fact vultures getting in early.

Thats my take...perched in the highest nearest tree ready to swoop when the carcass becomes available.


Also the closer to the end game we are the more the media / fans will accept the slashing cuts required

[CropleyWasGod]

But surely that we now approach the summer, they have zero income, their outgoings are about to shoot up, will there not be pressure from the courts to pull the plug after this week?

Their strategy at the beginning was to cut costs to enable them to trade until "the end of the season". I am guessing that, in their minds, they meant the end of May.

(According to an earlier poster, they are due £1m (?) from Everton for Jelavic at the end of the season which may buy them more time, or may be nabbed by UEFA, or may pay D&P's hotel tab. )

[speedy_gonzales]

"Since those savage cuts it is estimated that McCoist’s dressing room is owed in the region of £3million in lost wages. That means the club’s own first team is now the company’s biggest single football creditor"

Errr .. I think that Ticketus and HMRC may have something to say about that statement. :rolleyes:
I think they mean football as in their business, such as Dundee Utd or Hearts, football creditors, not loan sharks like Ticketus or Government agencies such as HMRC.

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought the players had agreed to wage cuts rather than wage deferrals? If they are still earning their pre-administration pay and have, for example, rights to a % of unpaid wages under a CVA then that would seem like more negligence by D&P as they would have only manipulated cash flow rather than taking cost out of the business.

I think each player did their own negotiations, and there wasn't uniformity in what each agreed.

It was certainly sold in the media, though, as a wage-cut.

Even if it was actually a deferral, I am not sure I agree about the "negligence" charge. The whole point of the exercise was to buy time, and it was successful in that.

[down-the-slope]

One bit i'm less clear on is Ticketus - surely they will either want their cash back...or to goto court for the right to sell the seats as agreed for coming seasons. Its crucial not only to them but all the clubs that regularly use his type of finance from them and others that this kind of contract is clarified by law...otherwise who will fund this arrangement in future if they are regarded as 'ordinary' creditors...and how will clubs survive the 2/3 months prior to ST's being sold without it :confused:

[Just Alf]

But surely that we now approach the summer, they have zero income, their outgoings are about to shoot up, will there not be pressure from the courts to pull the plug after this week?

And the Huns can't sell players until the transfer window opens on the 1st of July.

So from end of the month they'll be on maximum outgoings and zero revenue, It’s highly unlikely that there is sufficient cash to fund this, together with the usual expenses of running a club in the close season and Duff & Duffers fees as well...... they're gonna have to either quickly release players from their contracts (making them free agents), start selling stuff or liquidate?

[jgl07]

One bit i'm less clear on is Ticketus - surely they will either want their cash back...or to goto court for the right to sell the seats as agreed for coming seasons. Its crucial not only to them but all the clubs that regularly use his type of finance from them and others that this kind of contract is clarified by law...otherwise who will fund this arrangement in future if they are regarded as 'ordinary' creditors...and how will clubs survive the 2/3 months prior to ST's being sold without it :confused:

Wonga.com?

This may explain why season ticket renewals appear to come earlier and a earlier. At this rate you will be asked to renew for 2013-14 before the start of the 2012-13 season.

It really is a crazy situation especially where there is relegation in the air.

[silverhibee]

No.

David Hillier said on the radio this morning three weeks. An Insolvency Practitioner on the telly a few weeks back said five.

I think they probably have cash flow until the end of the month.


And what happens after that CWG, there next game is away so no more income for them from any football games as it is end of the season at the weekend, how will they be able to pay/keep players over the summer if they have no money, every player with a contract will want to leave as soon as the transfer window opens in July, they will be left with a bunch of kids,(don't tell the yams), this has to be THE END for them surley.

I would say, last man out please turn the lights of, but they have probably had it disconnected by there suppliers. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

And what happens after that CWG, there next game is away so no more income for them from any football games as it is end of the season at the weekend, how will they be able to pay/keep players over the summer if they have no money, every player with a contract will want to leave as soon as the transfer window opens in July, they will be left with a bunch of kids,(don't tell the yams), this has to be THE END for them surley.

I would say, last man out please turn the lights of, but they have probably had it disconnected by there suppliers. :greengrin

There is still the Court case they have against Collyer Bristow.:rolleyes:

I am jesting... if that was actually heard this month, AND they won it, then they would be in clover.

No. When the money runs out, that's it. Done. Enter the Liquidator.

[RyeSloan]

I think each player did their own negotiations, and there wasn't uniformity in what each agreed.

It was certainly sold in the media, though, as a wage-cut.

Even if it was actually a deferral, I am not sure I agree about the "negligence" charge. The whole point of the exercise was to buy time, and it was successful in that.

To buy time by adding significantly to the debt pile harldy seems to be in the interest of the exisiting creditors.

They could and should have made permanent cuts to the salary costs, that would have reduced the loss the club was making without adding to the debt that had already pushed the club into admin.

Maybe not negligence but throughout this process they have seemed much more focussed on maintaining as close to the status quo as possible, I know their argument is that is in the interest of creditors as this would give them the best hope fo seeing their money but the fact is, which was clear from the start, that anything like the status quo was unsustainable and untenable. Hence why they should have taken a hatchet to existing contracts where possible and looked to create a situation where the playing staff that were worth money in the transfer market could be retained long enough for the club to receive market rates for them....as it stands it now looks like the clubs main saleable assets will be walking away for nothing, how does that help the creditors in any way shape or form?

[PatHead]

Radio Scotland mentioned on the lunchtime programme that all "bidders" were being made aware that a loss of £2-3m per month would take place over the close season. They would need to budget for that in there plans. So the next 2 moonths running costs look like they are higher than the value of the club at this time.


Bet Rangers wish they hadn't voted to hold back the start of the season unlike last year :devil:

[Spike Mandela]

Doncaster states that the SPL needs clarity on the Rangers situation before making any decisions and they have to be reactive and not proactive. Surely this is the tail wagging the dog.

If the SPL would just agree some newco rules then show some leadership then perhaps it would provide some clarity for any bidders in Rangers and this whole sorry mess would reach a conclusion.

Sitting back twiddling their thumbs waiting to see what Rangers do so they can tailor any new rules to ensure they are back in tha SPL at all costs is surely humiliating and demeaning for the SPL.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/98893-neil-doncaster-wants-clarity-for-other-spl-clubs-on-rangers-situation/

[Jack]

Without the prospect of a CVA surely it becomes a liquidation and the bidders are bidding for the assets only. They may wish to use those assets to start up a new club and they may wish to call that club Rangers, but the conceit that Newco=Oldco-tidyed-up-a-bit must be dead. It seems increasingly doubtful that the players contracts can be transferred across, so we're looking at the prospect of a brand new club, with new owners, new directors and new players playing in a stadium that was abandoned by a now-defunct old club. There should be no prospect of that club getting anywhere near the SPL.

Shame on you for assuming they'd have an old stadium to play in :greengrin

[PatHead]

To buy time by adding significantly to the debt pile harldy seems to be in the interest of the exisiting creditors.

They could and should have made permanent cuts to the salary costs, that would have reduced the loss the club was making without adding to the debt that had already pushed the club into admin.

Maybe not negligence but throughout this process they have seemed much more focussed on maintaining as close to the status quo as possible, I know their argument is that is in the interest of creditors as this would give them the best hope fo seeing their money but the fact is, which was clear from the start, that anything like the status quo was unsustainable and untenable. Hence why they should have taken a hatchet to existing contracts where possible and looked to create a situation where the playing staff that were worth money in the transfer market could be retained long enough for the club to receive market rates for them....as it stands it now looks like the clubs main saleable assets will be walking away for nothing, how does that help the creditors in any way shape or form?

Still can't understand why they didn't cut costs such as Marketing Dept, ticketing dept, groundstaff, fringe players etc. Even considering putting Murray Park up for sale to see if there were any bidders. (I know it wouldn't have made them solvent but it may make them a lot more attractive rather than the extra burden on the club.) Most other companies in admin lay off staff, reduce assets, and I still can't see logic in keeping Rangers as big as they were.

[Seveno]

The kindest thing that you could say about Duff & Duffer is that they might have just taken a gamble, big time.

It was always a losers bet though.

What confuses me though is why Miller spent 5 days, with the attendant costs, in doing his due diligence. He could have save time and money by coming to hibs.net.

[StevieC]

Radio Scotland mentioned on the lunchtime programme that all "bidders" were being made aware that a loss of £2-3m per month would take place over the close season.

That's a pretty wild guesstimate from a company that should, by now, know exactly how much is going in and out of Rangers on a daily/weekly basis. To be unable to clarify exact losses over a 2 month period to within 50% of the actual loss is nothing short of criminal.

Are they actually doing any work at Ibrox or just "Twittering" all day?

[ehf]

The fundamental problem is that Rangers in their current form are economically unviable. That is how they got into this situation in the first place.

They see themselves as a top European team but are competing with club who have far greater spending power. SPL TV revenue will not cut it in comparison with the big-five European Leagues or even in comparison to the Dutch League.


Yep, even if they could walk away from 100% of the current debt and start again in the SPL, even with the transfer embargo revoked and no other sanctions (apart from no European football for three years, which UEFA will enforce) it wouldn't be viable. So there would have to be a bidder that was prepared to subsidise the business to the tune of at least £10m per annum (per Bill Miller's estimate) for at least three seasons. And even if such a bidder came forward, it wouldn't be allowed due to the FIFA Financial Fair Play rules.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's a pretty wild guesstimate from a company that should, by now, know exactly how much is going in and out of Rangers on a daily/weekly basis. To be unable to clarify exact losses over a 2 month period to within 50% of the actual loss is nothing short of criminal.

Are they actually doing any work at Ibrox or just "Twittering" all day?

To be fair, they don't know which players will be there in the close season.

[Gingertosser]

Does anyone really think Everton will just stump up the £1m after the last game of the season.
There finances aren't much better than Rangers, but then they will probably have more integrity.

Q) what happens if they go for a CVA and offer creditors 1p/£1, do debtors get to offer the same ?

Q) if they go into liquidation do Everton still have to stump up £1m ?

[lapsedhibee]

Yep, even if they could walk away from 100% of the current debt and start again in the SPL, even with the transfer embargo revoked and no other sanctions (apart from no European football for three years, which UEFA will enforce) it wouldn't be viable. So there would have to be a bidder that was prepared to subsidise the business to the tune of at least £10m per annum (per Bill Miller's estimate) for at least three seasons. And even if such a bidder came forward, it wouldn't be allowed due to the FIFA Financial Fair Play rules.

Heartwarming, morally upifting post. :agree: :flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

Does anyone really think Everton will just stump up the £1m after the last game of the season.
There finances aren't much better than Rangers, but then they will probably have more integrity.

Q) what happens if they go for a CVA and offer creditors 1p/£1, do debtors get to offer the same ?

Q) if they go into liquidation do Everton still have to stump up £1m ?

No and Yes.

[StevieC]

To be fair, they don't know which players will be there in the close season.

They should do though, they've the power to decide and/or discuss with the players. Poor management on their behalf if they are letting the players dictate surely?

[CropleyWasGod]

They should do though, they've the power to decide and/or discuss with the players. Poor management on their behalf if they are letting the players dictate surely?

The point I'm making, though, is that (as part of the re-negotiated contracts) some players may walk if there are decent offers... and, at this point, the admins don't know whether they will.

[PatHead]

That's a pretty wild guesstimate from a company that should, by now, know exactly how much is going in and out of Rangers on a daily/weekly basis. To be unable to clarify exact losses over a 2 month period to within 50% of the actual loss is nothing short of criminal.

Are they actually doing any work at Ibrox or just "Twittering" all day?

They also don't know the costs of getting the stadium ready for the 3rd division next season

[Keith_M]

Is it just me that wants them to stumble on for a bit longer and finally go bust on the 12th of July?


How ironic that would be :greengrin

[Jim44]

According to the BBC news, McCoist has had discussions with two of the new bidders, who will remain annonymous. Come on now, Sally, as a man who demands transparency, let your supporters know who they are. :cb

[StevieC]

The point I'm making, though, is that (as part of the re-negotiated contracts) some players may walk if there are decent offers... and, at this point, the admins don't know whether they will.

Ah got you, I think .. the players that negotiated deals will have their contracts jump back up again and may continue to take wages rather than leave (for free?)? And D&P may decide to let them do this if they view them as a "sellable" asset?

[Caversham Green]

I think each player did their own negotiations, and there wasn't uniformity in what each agreed.

It was certainly sold in the media, though, as a wage-cut.

Even if it was actually a deferral, I am not sure I agree about the "negligence" charge. The whole point of the exercise was to buy time, and it was successful in that.

If the reports are true I think I agree with Hibs Class. The administrators have been running the club at an accounting loss but have disguised the fact by deferring cash outgoings and increasing creditors, thereby reducing the value of existing creditors claims. In fact they've barely reduced expenses (as opposed to cash outflow) at all. To my mind none of that complies with their duties as administrators.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah got you, I think .. the players that negotiated deals will have their contracts jump back up again and may continue to take wages rather than leave (for free?)? And D&P may decide to let them do this if they view them as a "sellable" asset?

The whole story of the re-negotiated contracts is not clear. It seems that each player negotiated their own deal. For example, some may be entitled to walk if there is a better offer elsewhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

If the reports are true I think I agree with Hibs Class. The administrators have been running the club at an accounting loss but have disguised the fact by deferring cash outgoings and increasing creditors, thereby reducing the value of existing creditors claims. In fact they've barely reduced expenses (as opposed to cash outflow) at all. To my mind none of that complies with their duties as administrators.

But the whole point of the exercise was to buy time, to enable them to sell off RFC as an attractive going concern. Had they been able to do that, at a decent price within a decent time-frame, I don't know that the value to creditors would have been reduced.

In hindsight, of course, the whole approach seems to have failed. I am in two minds as to whether that is D&P'S fault (it would have been nice to be a fly on the wall:greengrin), or whether they were always farting against thunder.

[green glory]

D+P are quoted as saying on the 3rd of May that a CVA was 'no longer possible'.

To still be talking about a possible CVA at this stage is ridiculous.

[Smidge]

If the reports are true I think I agree with Hibs Class. The administrators have been running the club at an accounting loss but have disguised the fact by deferring cash outgoings and increasing creditors, thereby reducing the value of existing creditors claims. In fact they've barely reduced expenses (as opposed to cash outflow) at all. To my mind none of that complies with their duties as administrators.

If they've been happily accumulating more creditors that should be enough to get them kicked off the case. Once directors of a company are aware (or should have been) that they are trading insolvently, then any new debts are their personal liability. Not exactly sure if this is the case for administrators, and the situation wouldn't be exactly analogous, but they shouldn't be allowed to put themselves in such a position.

[Mikey]

The whole story of the re-negotiated contracts is not clear. It seems that each player negotiated their own deal. For example, some may be entitled to walk if there is a better offer elsewhere.

Can we sign Steven Whittaker and play him in the final? :greengrin

[HFC 0-7]

Their strategy at the beginning was to cut costs to enable them to trade until "the end of the season". I am guessing that, in their minds, they meant the end of May.

(According to an earlier poster, they are due £1m (?) from Everton for Jelavic at the end of the season which may buy them more time, or may be nabbed by UEFA, or may pay D&P's hotel tab. )

It was me that said that jelavic money is due, but is there not a point where they need to stop money from debtors to enable them to keep trading and start thinking about using that money to pay creditors. If I was a creditor I would be starting to get worried that the pot is getting smaller and smaller.

[green glory]

It was me that said that jelavic money is due, but is there not a point where they need to stop money from debtors to enable them to keep trading and start thinking about using that money to pay creditors. If I was a creditor I would be starting to get worried that the pot is getting smaller and smaller.

If I was a debtor I think I'd be sitting tight on my wad.

[Lungo--Drom]

I take my hat off to you sir, this must be the best post of the day!!! :) It isn't just you that wants that outcome.... :D


Is it just me that wants them to stumble on for a bit longer and finally go bust on the 12th of July?

How ironic that would be :greengrin

[silverhibee]

According to the BBC news, McCoist has had discussions with two of the new bidders, who will remain annonymous. Come on now, Sally, as a man who demands transparency, let your supporters know who they are. :cb

Wee demand to know who these bidders are.


Hot of the press. http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/TrottersBBC_600x365.jpg :cb :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Wee demand to know who these bidders are.


Hot of the press. http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/TrottersBBC_600x365.jpg :cb :greengrin

Coffee spat all over keyboard with that one.:thumbsup:

[Caversham Green]

But the whole point of the exercise was to buy time, to enable them to sell off RFC as an attractive going concern. Had they been able to do that, at a decent price within a decent time-frame, I don't know that the value to creditors would have been reduced.

In hindsight, of course, the whole approach seems to have failed. I am in two minds as to whether that is D&P'S fault (it would have been nice to be a fly on the wall:greengrin), or whether they were always farting against thunder.

They would either have had to promise the players that the arrears would be payable in full once the club had emerged from administration or add the arrears to the list of administration creditors. The first would reduce the amount an investor would be willing to pay and the second would dilute the claim of the other creditors. Either way the existing creditors lose out and the end result is that the club is still not a going concern - it's still making the losses that brought administration about in the first place.

Administrators can get away with a lot because the whole process is dependent on professional judgement, but simply deferring payment rather than reducing costs does nothing to improve the club's prospects and really is not far removed from what wee Craig did with the HMRC payments. Having said all that, I think this story originated in the Record and should be treated with the usual caution that applies to that particular paper.

[Just Alf]

Rumoursville from one of me weegie mates. the land that Murray Park sits on is on the market @ approx £10 mill, for housing.... since originally built a number of new housing developments have gone up around it negating any "remaining issues" re planning permission. Two builders already interested, Bett Homes and Stewart Milne.

Tried googling etc but can't find anything

[Spike Mandela]

According to the BBC news, McCoist has had discussions with two of the new bidders, who will remain annonymous. Come on now, Sally, as a man who demands transparency, let your supporters know who they are. :cb

Aunt Sally would whore himself to anyone at the moment as long as they said they were buying Rangers. Stuff due diligence. Remember him enthusing about his hour long call with Bill Miller which was after midnight thus proving his commitment to doing a deal with Rangers:greengrin

The only transparent thing in this whole proces is the arrogance of him and those of his ilk. A wee bit of humility required now methinks.

[CropleyWasGod]

Rumoursville from one of me weegie mates. the land that Murray Park sits on is on the market @ approx £10 mill, for housing.... since originally built a number of new housing developments have gone up around it negating any "remaining issues" re planning permission. Two builders already interested, Bett Homes and Stewart Milne.

Tried googling etc but can't find anything

If that's true, it kinda puts Wild Bill's £11.4m in perspective. :cb

[Smidge]

Rumoursville from one of me weegie mates. the land that Murray Park sits on is on the market @ approx £10 mill, for housing.... since originally built a number of new housing developments have gone up around it negating any "remaining issues" re planning permission. Two builders already interested, Bett Homes and Stewart Milne.

Tried googling etc but can't find anything

There is some talk on this thread a long time ago that Murray Park is unsuitable for housing due to its positioning on a flood plain. However, West of Scotland Rugby's ground - not a million miles from MP - is far more likely to get a planning consent. Therefore, some sort of deal for the WoS to move to MP and their place getting built on is a bit more unlikely.

[Fergus52]

Can't be bothered reading through the last few pages,

can someone please clarify for me what state of affairs rangers are most likely to end up in?

I know that without a UEFA license a newco couldn't play in the SPL for 3 years, but do the SPL have the power to change that? and is it likely that they will?

[Lungo--Drom]

It's starting to look like a fire sale is getting more and more likely

m.stv.tv/news/scotland/98884-rangers-administrators-could-sell-off-clubs-assets-to-keep-it-alive/

I reckon some flats, with retail and office space and maybe a gymnasium for the site at Edmiston Drive. My missus says there will be a queue a mile long for people offering to drive the bulldozer through the place before the new buildings get put up :D

[Just Alf]

Can't be bothered reading through the last few pages,

can someone please clarify for me what state of affairs rangers are most likely to end up in?

I know that without a UEFA license a newco couldn't play in the SPL for 3 years, but do the SPL have the power to change that? and is it likely that they will?

There's quotes in the press that any Newco OR Oldco re-emerging via CVA will be treated as a "new member" by UEFA etc and the 3 year rule will stand, they've also said that the rule won't be changed "just because it's Rangers" and I think SPL/SFA can do hee haw about it.

[StevieC]

There is some talk on this thread a long time ago that Murray Park is unsuitable for housing due to its positioning on a flood plain. However, West of Scotland Rugby's ground - not a million miles from MP - is far more likely to get a planning consent. Therefore, some sort of deal for the WoS to move to MP and their place getting built on is a bit more unlikely.

It might be "more likely" to get planning consent but it's a lot less desirable. At the moment Murray Park is the "right side" of the railway track (so to speak), at least 5 times the size, and available at a knock down price. The housing development that has been built right opposite MP (since MP opened) has houses that are going for almost £500k. WoS is sandwiched between retail and industrial land, whereas MP skirts nicely round woodland and a golf course.

If a builder could snap it up at a discounted price (assuming he's willing to take a hun backlash) he'd be daft not to at least consider it.

[HibeeMG]

Now, did I, or did I not say that the bids by the interested parties seemed low considering the real estate on offer with the club?

I believe I got shot down because 'those bits of land are only useful for football clubs'. It seems not to be the case.

I'm not one for telling you 'I told you so' but..... :na na:

:greengrin

[StevieC]

Now, did I, or did I not say that the bids by the interested parties seemed low considering the real estate on offer with the club?

I believe I got shot down because 'those bits of land are only useful for football clubs'. It seems not to be the case.

I'm not one for telling you 'I told you so' but..... :na na:

:greengrin

It would hinge on planning permission though .. and there's guaranteed to be Rangers supporters on the applications board. :wink:

[jgl07]

It might be "more likely" to get planning consent but it's a lot less desirable. At the moment Murray Park is the "right side" of the railway track (so to speak), at least 5 times the size, and available at a knock down price. The housing development that has been built right opposite MP (since MP opened) has houses that are going for almost £500k. WoS is sandwiched between retail and industrial land, whereas MP skirts nicely round woodland and a golf course.

If a builder could snap it up at a discounted price (assuming he's willing to take a hun backlash) he'd be daft not to at least consider it.

The City Council would never give planning permission.

It would have to be won on appeal. That seems unlikely if it is on a flood plain.

[Lungo--Drom]

More dribbling from Duff & Duffer:

m.skysports.com/article/football//7742162

David Whitehouse (and co.) are either closet huns or are in fear for their lives. It reminds me of when I was a bairn and you broke something like a cup or plate and kept putting off telling your ma what you'd done.

[Moulin Yarns]

The City Council would never give planning permission.

It would have to be won on appeal. That seems unlikely if it is on a flood plain.

Every local authority is in the process of preparing their Local Plan which identifies land use zones. Depends what MP is zoned for. Also, flooding issues can be overcome with mitigation measures. In other words not insurmountable.

[HibeeMG]

"If you don't invest heavily in the player squad, and you accept that you're going to compete competitively at simply domestic level over the next 12-24 months, it is quite easy to see a break-even model.
"But to achieve that break-even model, you have to be comfortable that the fans are going to turn up and renew season tickets and you're going to get that core revenue through the gate receipts.

Am I wrong in saying that the Ticketus deal will still stand unless there is a NewCo?

If I'm not wrong then any season ticket renewals will go straight to Ticketus as it seems more and more unlikely that a NewCo will happen. Therefore, why should a prospective buyer worry about fans renewing? He'll hardly see a penny of that money going to the club.

[jgl07]

Every local authority is in the process of preparing their Local Plan which identifies land use zones. Depends what MP is zoned for. Also, flooding issues can be overcome with mitigation measures. In other words not insurmountable.

They can be dealt with by moving the problem elsewhere.

The folly of building on floodplanes even if riven defences are added and ground levels raised in a contributory factor the the increased problem of flooding.

[lapsedhibee]

If a builder could snap it up at a discounted price (assuming he's willing to take a hun backlash) he'd be daft not to at least consider it.

Might not be just a builder backlash. Look forward to Sally demanding to know, for transparency, the identities of anyone who buys property there.

[StevieC]

Am I wrong in saying that the Ticketus deal will still stand unless there is a NewCo?

If I'm not wrong then any season ticket renewals will go straight to Ticketus

I think most forecasts are probably now based on Ticketus being "bumped" for their cash (based on Scots Law).

Likely to go through the courts but I get the impression they could be left chasing CW rather than Rangers.

[StevieC]

Might not be just a builder backlash. Look forward to Sally demanding to know, for transparency, the identities of anyone who buys property there.

:greengrin

[HibeeMG]

Every local authority is in the process of preparing their Local Plan which identifies land use zones. Depends what MP is zoned for. Also, flooding issues can be overcome with mitigation measures. In other words not insurmountable.

Exactly.

Which brings me back to the point I made a few days ago.

If the administrators were doing their jobs properly and acting on behalf of the creditors, why wouldn't they try to maximise the amount of cash they could get from the property and land assets?

To just assume that the land can only be used for footballing purposes and that nobody other than a potential buyer of the club would want them seems negligent to me. If they put those assets (Ibrox and MP) up for public sale and let prospective buyers worry about flood plains and planning issues then they might find they bring in a hell of a lot more than the discounted £11.5m that Miller offered.

[lapsedhibee]

Exactly.

Which brings me back to the point I made a few days ago.

If the administrators were doing their jobs properly and acting on behalf of the creditors, why wouldn't they try to maximise the amount of cash they could get from the property and land assets?

To just assume that the land can only be used for footballing purposes and that nobody other than a potential buyer of the club would want them seems negligent to me. If they put those assets (Ibrox and MP) up for public sale and let prospective buyers worry about flood plains and planning issues then they might find they bring in a hell of a lot more than the discounted £11.5m that Miller offered.

Have we ruled out the possibility that Duff and Duffer are crooked? :dunno:

[jonty]

Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
Ticketus close to lodging legal claim against Craig Whyte, calling in £27m in personal guarantees for last year's #Rangers financing deal

[HibeeMG]

Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
Ticketus close to lodging legal claim against Craig Whyte, calling in £27m in personal guarantees for last year's #Rangers financing deal

Aye, good luck with that! :aok:

I can just see old bulgy-eyes booking his one-way flight to Brazil as we speak!

[Killiehibbie]

Have we ruled out the possibility that Duff and Duffer are crooked? :dunno:Certainly not ruling that out given that Whyte wanted them to get the job.

[Leithenhibby]

Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
Ticketus close to lodging legal claim against Craig Whyte, calling in £27m in personal guarantees for last year's #Rangers financing deal


Certainly not ruling that out given that Whyte wanted them to get the job.


More turns, twists & round-a-bouts than "spaghetti junction". They must be coming to the end of the road soon... Shirley .. :aok:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/19817653@N04/7097733855/in/photostream/lightbox/

[down-the-slope]

Aye, good luck with that! :aok:

I can just see old bulgy-eyes booking his one-way flight to Brazil as we speak!


But what if was secured against wavetower...which in turn had a floating charge over Rangers assets :greengrin........



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjJHnKw7YNA

[konte's one-two]

2 things. firstly murray park has a clause in it that it can only be redeveloped for leisure purposes. the clause is on place for a signofocanyammount of time.

[crewetollhibee]

The bit I don't get there is - where have these people been since Valentine's Day? A wise man said ealier on this very thread 'If it seems too good to be true it usually is'. This story falls into that category IMO.
I agree Cav, but Valentine's Day ? Where were they for all those years that SDM had the club up for sale ?

[greenginger]

Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglsFraser
Ticketus close to lodging legal claim against Craig Whyte, calling in £27m in personal guarantees for last year's #Rangers financing deal


Thats good news I think :confused: It must support Whyte's claim for having security over Ibrox and Murray Park. There can can be no deal done, OldCo, NewCo, a bit of BothCo until this legal mess is sorted out and it could take YEARS ! :greengrin

[konte's one-two]

Also its been known that d&p are anything but decent. they (in a previous guise) have had connections with CW previously. in paricular a high street clothing chain went into admin. d&p came in and botj parties profited greatly. should check out @celticresearch on twitter there a little biased but have a lot of ibfo that doesnt make the press

[Dashing Bob S]

The plot seems to have thickened into an almighty mess of orange goo. This could drag on in courts for years as claims and counter-claims and appeals are issued. The administrators don't really seem to have known what they are doing. They evidently decided that the best strategy was to talk up a quick deal, but it seems that everyone who has seen the extent of the debt and outstanding potential constraints has ran a mile. They appear to have no plan B.

It seems uncertain what division, if any, Rangers will play in next season, and what sort of a club they will be.

[shagpile]

Rumoursville from one of me weegie mates. the land that Murray Park sits on is on the market @ approx £10 mill, for housing.... since originally built a number of new housing developments have gone up around it negating any "remaining issues" re planning permission. Two builders already interested, Bett Homes and Stewart Milne.

Tried googling etc but can't find anything

**** on by a sheep? How would the hun hordes feel about that?

[lapsedhibee]

It seems uncertain what division, if any, Rangers will play in next season, and what sort of a club they will be.

Disagree. If they exist at all, it's all too easy to predict what sort of a club they'll be.

As for what division, all leagues should be suspended until the outcome of all the Huns' court cases etc is known. It would be completely unfair to carry on with SPL or SFL fixtures until they know where they are and what they want to do.

[TornadoHibby]

Exactly.

Which brings me back to the point I made a few days ago.

If the administrators were doing their jobs properly and acting on behalf of the creditors, why wouldn't they try to maximise the amount of cash they could get from the property and land assets?

To just assume that the land can only be used for footballing purposes and that nobody other than a potential buyer of the club would want them seems negligent to me. If they put those assets (Ibrox and MP) up for public sale and let prospective buyers worry about flood plains and planning issues then they might find they bring in a hell of a lot more than the discounted £11.5m that Miller offered.

How do you know that they weren't to parties likely to be interested in such properties other than the "going concern" bidders? :dunno:

Is the £11.5 million not net of secured loans over the properties? :dunno:

What are the viable alternative uses for the properties, what consents would be required and what would the timescales involved in securing such necessary consents be, what costs and timescales might be involved in carrying out any re-development necessary to achieve the alternative viable uses once the related consents had been obtained and, what would the values of these properties be for acquisition at this time assuming that the secured lender consented to the sale upon receipt of the loan amount (or full sale proceeds if a shortfall arises)? :dunno:

Questions, questions...............! :wink:

[HibeeMG]

How do you know that they weren't to parties likely to be interested in such properties other than the "going concern" bidders? :dunno:

I've not seen a picture of a dirty great big 'FOR SALE' sign outside Ibrox or Murray Park. Have you? :wink:


Is the £11.5 million not net of secured loans over the properties? :dunno:

Not got a clue. Good question though.


What are the viable alternative uses for the properties, what consents would be required and what would the timescales involved in securing such necessary consents be, what costs and timescales might be involved in carrying out any re-development necessary to achieve the alternative viable uses once the related consents had been obtained and, what would the values of these properties be for acquisition at this time assuming that the secured lender consented to the sale upon receipt of the loan amount (or full sale proceeds if a shortfall arises)? :dunno:

Got me on those questions also. I'm just glad I'm not looking to buy the land! I'm sure that Asda, Tesco, Barratt Homes etc are great at looking into things like these though. :wink:


Questions, questions...............! :wink:

And hopefully these questions and more will keep the whole thing tied up until the lights go off. :aok:

[Paisley Hibby]

2 things. firstly murray park has a clause in it that it can only be redeveloped for leisure purposes. the clause is on place for a signofocanyammount of time.

And main stand at Ibrox is a Listed Building so that limits what you could redevelop the stadium for. I think Fulham had the same problem with stands that are Listed Buildings when they tried to redevelop Craven Cottage?

[Moulin Yarns]

And main stand at Ibrox is a Listed Building so that limits what you could redevelop the stadium for. I think Fulham had the same problem with stands that are Listed Buildings when they tried to redevelop Craven Cottage?

But Arsenal didn't have a problem at Highbury, as I said earlier, not insurmountable.

[Haymaker]

And main stand at Ibrox is a Listed Building so that limits what you could redevelop the stadium for. I think Fulham had the same problem with stands that are Listed Buildings when they tried to redevelop Craven Cottage?

Aye, they were going to have to build round it. It got turned down because it was "too tall" for local residents IIRC.

[s.a.m]

Lots of people tweeting that Ticketus are "days away" from suing Craig Whyte for 27 million.


Edit: here's the story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18006383

[jgl07]

But Arsenal didn't have a problem at Highbury, as I said earlier, not insurmountable.

No insurmountable but Govan is hardly the same as Islington in terms of house prices.

[shagpile]

Lots of people tweeting that Ticketus are "days away" from suing Craig Whyte for 27 million.

Expect a decision on that around....














2015.

[jgl07]

Thats good news I think :confused: It must support Whyte's claim for having security over Ibrox and Murray Park. There can can be no deal done, OldCo, NewCo, a bit of BothCo until this legal mess is sorted out and it could take YEARS ! :greengrin

Well a Newco could be formed and rent Hampden Park in the meantime. Celtic did that for a year.

Come to think of it Queens Park could merge with Rangers to form a new club called: Queens Park Rangers!

[Paisley Hibby]

Guy from Duff and Duffer on Radio Scotland has just referred to 3 "indicative offers
or proposals" so looks to me that they DON'T have real bids at the moment. But I'm no expert.

[ancienthibby]

Well a Newco could be formed and rent Hampden Park in the meantime. Celtic did that for a year.

Come to think of it Queens Park could merge with Rangers to form a new club called: Queens Park Rangers!

NOT your best moment!:greengrin

[joe breezy]

http://theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-content/comical_ali.jpg

Everything's okay there are 3 bidders and all will be fine...

[Just Alf]

http://theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-content/comical_ali.jpg

Everything's okay there are 3 bidders and all will be fine...

Fell off ma seat!

:faf:

[Just Alf]

And main stand at Ibrox is a Listed Building so that limits what you could redevelop the stadium for. I think Fulham had the same problem with stands that are Listed Buildings when they tried to redevelop Craven Cottage?

Got this earlier from another forum

Reasons for demolishing a Listed Building:

a.the building is not of special interest; or
b.the building is incapable of repair; or
c.the demolition of the building is essential to delivering significant
benefits to economic growth or the wider community; or
d.the repair of the building is not economically viable and that it has been marketed at a price reflecting its location and condition to potential restoring purchasers for a reasonable period.

I'm SURE they could get something out of that so Ibrox can be put out its misery! :cb

And on Murray Park

the West of Scotland ground is currently subject to a Waitrose planning application. so basically W of S can move along to Murray Park :wink:

[John_the_angus_hibby]

If the reports are true I think I agree with Hibs Class. The administrators have been running the club at an accounting loss but have disguised the fact by deferring cash outgoings and increasing creditors, thereby reducing the value of existing creditors claims. In fact they've barely reduced expenses (as opposed to cash outflow) at all. To my mind none of that complies with their duties as administrators.

Then more fool the companies prepared to give them credit.

[Caversham Green]

Then more fool the companies prepared to give them credit.

It's not companies though, it's the players. They've either accepted a reduction in their wages or actually been on full wages all the time but agreed not to take the cash until June - that makes them creditors at the moment.

[grunt]

Chick Young on Radio Scotland tonight...
What a twerp. In my opinion.


Possibly they might put the boards up at Ibrox.
The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game, in my opinion.

[Ryan91]

Chick Young on Radio Scotland tonight...
What a twerp. In my opinion.


Possibly they might put the boards up at Ibrox.
The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game, in my opinion



Erse.

I wonder if he'd be saying the same if it were his 'beloved' Buddies in danger of going down the pan?

[Minder]

http://theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-content/comical_ali.jpg

Everything's okay there are 3 bidders and all will be fine...

:top marks

[Minder]

What odds the death blow comes on the 12th July?:wink:

[Just Alf]

Read this from Chick, the man's 100% right!

"The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game. In fact, it may already be too late. It strikes me that too many have little concept of how serious the situation really is.

Those who want Rangers wiped from the face of the planet for their misdemeanours, who want their chairmen to don the black cap when it comes to judgement day, are entitled to their opinion, but they should be prepared to live with the consequences.

Consider this: on a match day when Rangers are at home and Celtic away, far in excess of half the paying customers in the SPL are at Ibrox.

Remind me on what basis you can dispense with half your custom and still thrive and you, my friend, have found the secret of business heaven."

See!.... 100% right....

Ah.... just spotted a flaw....

do the other teams get money from Ibrox for ALL those fans he's goin' on aboot?.... shared oot is it?

Either RFC have been holding back the dosh or as earlier posts may have mentioned.... he's an erse!

[GloryGlory]

Well a Newco could be formed and rent Hampden Park in the meantime. Celtic did that for a year.

Come to think of it Queens Park could merge with Rangers to form a new club called: Queens Park Rangers!

:thumbsup: :greengrin :top marks

Or maybe QPH as the QPR is already taken.

[GloryGlory]

Read this from Chick, the man's 100% right!

"The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game. In fact, it may already be too late. It strikes me that too many have little concept of how serious the situation really is.

Those who want Rangers wiped from the face of the planet for their misdemeanours, who want their chairmen to don the black cap when it comes to judgement day, are entitled to their opinion, but they should be prepared to live with the consequences.

Consider this: on a match day when Rangers are at home and Celtic away, far in excess of half the paying customers in the SPL are at Ibrox. Remind me on what basis you can dispense with half your custom and still thrive and you, my friend, have found the secret of business heaven."

See!.... 100% right....

Ah.... just spotted a flaw....

do the other teams get money from Ibrox for ALL those fans he's goin' on aboot?.... shared oot is it?

Either RFC have been holding back the dosh or as earlier posts may have mentioned.... he's an erse!

This also assumes that ALL potential customers are at a game when Rangers are playing. It doesn't take into account non-Rangers sympathetic potential customers who could/would attend SPL games if their teams were more competitive as a result of Rangers demise (or happier bringing their children to games not polluted by sectarian bile). I would guess that there are teams like Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc who could well attract larger crowds in a better league.

[Brando7]

:thumbsup: :greengrin :top marks

Or maybe QPH as the QPR is already taken.

or strike a deal to HMRC to take over club as payment n call them HMRC UTD :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Pxj7c3m549I/TKML7DyjMiI/AAAAAAAAARk/M1AwIuGHnCo/s1600/karate-bears.jpg


Bwah ha ha ha.The fools fight each other:

http://forum.rangers...pic=219541& st=0 (http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=219541&st=0)

[bighairyfaeleith]

This also assumes that ALL potential customers are at a game when Rangers are playing. It doesn't take into account non-Rangers sympathetic potential customers who could/would attend SPL games if their teams were more competitive as a result of Rangers demise (or happier bringing their children to games not polluted by sectarian bile). I would guess that there are teams like Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc who could well attract larger crowds in a better league.

exactly right.

[jonty]

Read this from Chick, the man's 100% right!

"The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game. In fact, it may already be too late. It strikes me that too many have little concept of how serious the situation really is.

Those who want Rangers wiped from the face of the planet for their misdemeanours, who want their chairmen to don the black cap when it comes to judgement day, are entitled to their opinion, but they should be prepared to live with the consequences.

Consider this: on a match day when Rangers are at home and Celtic away, far in excess of half the paying customers in the SPL are at Ibrox.

Remind me on what basis you can dispense with half your custom and still thrive and you, my friend, have found the secret of business heaven."

See!.... 100% right....

Ah.... just spotted a flaw....

do the other teams get money from Ibrox for ALL those fans he's goin' on aboot?.... shared oot is it?

Either RFC have been holding back the dosh or as earlier posts may have mentioned.... he's an erse!
I don't recall chick claiming Scottish football would die when rangers and Celtic were trying their hardest to move out of the spl.

[HibeeMG]

I don't recall chick claiming Scottish football would die when rangers and Celtic were trying their hardest to move out of the spl.

That's because, as far as he is concerned, Scottish football (in the guise of the Old Firm) would be going strong. The media use the 'for the good of the Scottish game' line as a reason to save them. They're not actually that bothered about the rest of Scottish football.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Read this from Chick, the man's 100% right!

"The death of the Ibrox club would toll the bell for the Scottish game. In fact, it may already be too late. It strikes me that too many have little concept of how serious the situation really is.

Those who want Rangers wiped from the face of the planet for their misdemeanours, who want their chairmen to don the black cap when it comes to judgement day, are entitled to their opinion, but they should be prepared to live with the consequences.

Consider this: on a match day when Rangers are at home and Celtic away, far in excess of half the paying customers in the SPL are at Ibrox.

Remind me on what basis you can dispense with half your custom and still thrive and you, my friend, have found the secret of business heaven."

See!.... 100% right....

Ah.... just spotted a flaw....

do the other teams get money from Ibrox for ALL those fans he's goin' on aboot?.... shared oot is it?

Either RFC have been holding back the dosh or as earlier posts may have mentioned.... he's an erse!


Calm doon Chico. When the huns are liquidised the cuddly bears will go and support their local teams.

Sorted.

[Eyrie]

or strike a deal to HMRC to take over club as payment n call them HMRC UTD :greengrin

And as part of the deal Ibrox will be re-named the Inland Revenue Arena*






*Can't remember who first posted that, but it's good.

[PaulSmith]

And as part of the deal Ibrox will be re-named the Inland Revenue Arena*






*Can't remember who first posted that, but it's good.

That's only Provisional though.

[Prof. Shaggy]

This also assumes that ALL potential customers are at a game when Rangers are playing. It doesn't take into account non-Rangers sympathetic potential customers who could/would attend SPL games if their teams were more competitive as a result of Rangers demise (or happier bringing their children to games not polluted by sectarian bile). I would guess that there are teams like Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc who could well attract larger crowds in a better league.

:agree:
A hit! A very palpable hit!
:top marks

[stokesmessiah]

With this massive information overload i am now confusing myself as to the goings on with the people! Can someone please advise me if/what the significance is on them concluding a deal before the end of the season?

Is it purely down to money being perceived to run out after this weekend or is there something to do with SPL regulations?

[SteveHFC]

The Further Misadventures Of Jimmy The Succulent Lamb
(And His Faithful Lapdog Chico)

http://oi49.tinypic.com/20kadly.jpg

"Ohhh baa! Oh baa! Ohhh baastaard!" http://oi49.tinypic.com/2yydxkz.jpg

"Hey you, what are you getting your fleece in a knot about, my succulent lamb?"
http://oi48.tinypic.com/id6dty.jpg

"Ohhh Mr Ernest, Siiir! We've discovered a huge hole, and Chico's got his head stuuuck in it!"
http://oi50.tinypic.com/fz3yg4.jpg

"A hole? That's Chico's always sticking his head in the ground!"

"It wasn't ouuur fault, siiiir. Mr Duuuff and Mr Pheeelps never told aaanyone it was therrrre!"

"That's what happens when you stumble around in the dark thinking you can see clearly only by the light of minty moonbeams! Hold on while I pull him out!"

http://oi47.tinypic.com/3027tzt.jpg

"Thank you officer! I was trying to retrieve my St Mirren fan club certificate!"

"Your St Mirren fan club certificate? A likely story, Chico! Right you two, how deep is this here hole you've found?"

"Ohhh, Mr Ernest, siiir, it runs all the way to the Biiig Houuuse, and it is at least thirty million deep?"

"Thirty million? What? Inches? Feet? Miles?"

http://oi45.tinypic.com/s5xyl5.jpg

[Saorsa]

http://i.imgur.com/VDNsL.gif:hilarious

[1875godsgift]

The only sensible option as far as I can see, if common sense prevailed is

1/ Liquidise the gremlins, put them out their misery.

2/ Sell all their assets, players, property, whatever, to minimise the debts they have.

3/ All the sullied silverware in their tarnished trophy room should be melted down and sold for scrap.

4/ They may be allowed to re-enter Scottish football at the lowest level, if they show some form of contrition for years of cheating.

5/ Ibrox is seized by HMRC and rented back on a rent to buy basis. When they have paid enough rent to pay back their debts ( somewhere between £11m and £134m by all accounts :greengrin plus interest ) then Ibrox belongs to them. Obviously all maintenance and modernisation necessary in this period is paid for by the football club. This may take a few years, but they have cheated their way to glory for a couple of decades!

It shouldn't take them too long to reach the top level of Scottish football, with crowds of 40,000+ for their home games against Peterhead, the Shire, Montrose etc. and I would welcome a contrite, non-sectarian newco Govan Gumbies into the SPL in about the year 2030.

[Lungo--Drom]

Even the west coast press are turning against them now:

http://heraldscotland.com/sport/football/end-game.17543834

This article pretty much lays all the cards on the table and it doesn't make good reading for Der Huns :O

[Spike Mandela]

The only sensible option as far as I can see, if common sense prevailed is

1/ Liquidise the gremlins, put them out their misery.

2/ Sell all their assets, players, property, whatever, to minimise the debts they have.

3/ All the sullied silverware in their tarnished trophy room should be melted down and sold for scrap.

4/ They may be allowed to re-enter Scottish football at the lowest level, if they show some form of contrition for years of cheating.

5/ Ibrox is seized by HMRC and rented back on a rent to buy basis. When they have paid enough rent to pay back their debts ( somewhere between £11m and £134m by all accounts :greengrin plus interest ) then Ibrox belongs to them. Obviously all maintenance and modernisation necessary in this period is paid for by the football club. This may take a few years, but they have cheated their way to glory for a couple of decades!

It shouldn't take them too long to reach the top level of Scottish football, with crowds of 40,000+ for their home games against Peterhead, the Shire, Montrose etc. and I would welcome a contrite, non-sectarian newco Govan Gumbies into the SPL in about the year 2030.

I am surprised nobody in the media has suggested the obvious solution to this debacle. I know for a fact that many in the media considered this a great way to rescue a struggling team and make them a competitive force in Scottish football. Yes you guessed it.....................................it's called the Mercer approach.

All that's needed is for Celtic to buy the shell that is Rangers. They could call it a merger, name them Glasgow United and have them playing at Parkhead in hoops. Increase Parkhead to hold the 100,000 fans every week. They would become a European power house and would bring huge money in to the Scottish game.

Can't undertand why nobody has come up with it after all they thought it would be great for us.:rolleyes:

[Lungo--Drom]

And lets not forget what Duff & Duffer said way back 3 months ago...

"David Whitehouse and Paul Clark, of Duff and Phelps, sought to clarify the firm's position as they begin the task of dealing with Rangers's fate.

A grave looking Mr Clark read a brief statement declaring "...As administrators we have a statutory duty to act in the best interests of all creditors and we will fulfil that function diligently."

Well Mr. Clark as a bystander I have to say you aren't making it that obvious. The one group of people I feel sorry for in this debacle are the creditors because I certainly don't think they will be getting back anywhere near £1 for every £1 they are owed the way you guys at D&P are running things at the moment.

[ehf]

Even the west coast press are turning against them now:

http://heraldscotland.com/sport/football/end-game.17543834

This article pretty much lays all the cards on the table and it doesn't make good reading for Der Huns :O

Yikes! If I were Mr Paul Clark or Mr David Whitehouse, I would be sh itting bricks...

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4305528/New-bidders-close-in-on-Craig-dealers.html

[CyberSauzee]

The plot seems to have thickened into an almighty mess of orange goo. This could drag on in courts for years as claims and counter-claims and appeals are issued. The administrators don't really seem to have known what they are doing. They evidently decided that the best strategy was to talk up a quick deal, but it seems that everyone who has seen the extent of the debt and outstanding potential constraints has ran a mile. They appear to have no plan B.

They can't afford him. Too busy appearing in Bulmer's adverts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUes4f6aeQI


It seems uncertain what division, if any, Rangers will play in next season, and what sort of a club they will be.

Bigoted with a hue of orange. Or should that be Hugh?

[Spike Mandela]

****** Souness now:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2142102/Graeme-Souness-return-Rangers.html

[cabbageandribs1875]

'The Sting' is on STV now, i'l look out for any references to the govan crooks

[theonlywayisup]

Even the west coast press are turning against them now:

http://heraldscotland.com/sport/football/end-game.17543834

This article pretty much lays all the cards on the table and it doesn't make good reading for Der Huns :O

Interesting and refreshing article!


His (Miller's) bid had been "substantially" better than anything else on the table, Duff & Phelps told us last week. The administrators have a major credibility problem now but that's the least of it all. Brian Kennedy has said all along that he would rescue Rangers if no-one else could but last night it was being suggested that even he felt they may have reached the point of no return. The Blue Knights are all heart but the administrators claim they've fallen well short of coming up with the readies to deliver a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). There's no shame in that: it would cost £10m for a realistic CVA offer and the projections are then for £10m, £5m and £5m losses in the three years without European football (once reduced costs but also reduced season-ticket income is factored in). That's £30m for three years of precious little beyond survival. More to the point The Knights cannot deliver Craig Whyte's shares, which is a prerequisite of a CVA.

So basically they are donald ducked!


The story moves at the pace of a fast-flowing, dangerous river and it's hurtling Rangers towards the brink. In a matter of minutes yesterday the furore about the SPL tearing itself apart over what to do with a newco was entirely replaced by the prospect of having no application to consider. But potentially the economic devastation of no Rangers either, which would mean Sky and ESPN seeking renegotiation on their television deal, millions being wiped off the other clubs' collective income, and potentially others falling into administration too.

Reading the above, it is going to be difficult for any team to build a squad for next season with the risk hanging that Sky & ESPN will seek to renegotiate their deal. It could cost clubs around a million pounds per annum.

I also see that the once famous Glasgow Rangers FC football fans are targetting the HMRC next. WTF are they planning? Not paying their taxes!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/09/article-2142102-11BD6793000005DC-354_468x286.jpg

[Part/Time Supporter]

Funny how a Scottish newspaper can't report the truth about what's going on...

http://www.todayonline.com/Sports/EDC120510-0000060/Ng-back-in-the-hunt-for-Rangers


SINGAPORE - Barely three weeks after it looked over, the bid by the consortium led by Singaporean Bill Ng to land embattled Scottish Premier League giants Glasgow Rangers is on again.

And in a surprising twist, he could now have the club at just half of his group's initial offer of £20 million (S$40.4 million).

This after American tycoon Bill Miller withdrew his on Tuesday (yesterday morning, Singapore time), which left Rangers, already mired in debts of about £55.4 million, hanging by a thread as they are expected to run out of money by the end of this month.

Without any bids on the table, it triggered a desperate flurry of calls by club administrators Duff & Phelps to interest other parties and for Ng, who is chairman of S-League club Hougang United, to revive his bid.

With the possibility of the 54-time Scottish Premier League champions slipping off the footballing map, they are now even willing to listen to offers that match or are even lower than Miller's £11.6 million offer - almost half of what the club expected when they went into administration in mid-February.

"It is really crazy," Ng, who was already fast asleep when the latest events unfolded in Glasgow, told Today. "There were something like 20 missed calls from Scotland on my phone when I woke up.

"I am now told they are willing to accept 50 per cent of what I had initially offered. It seems they are now more receptive and no longer digging in their heels with unrealistic demands."

Besides the Singapore group, the only one identified in the latest effort to find new owners for the club, two other bids have been submitted at the 11th hour by another foreign consortium and a group of British businessmen.

The interest from Ng's group, with their £20-million offer, was first revealed in March as one of five parties, which dwindled to three last month, in the chase for Rangers.

They emerged as the front runners after the Blue Knights, spearheaded by former club director Paul Murray, dropped out on April 16 only for Ng to follow suit four days later, with claims that Rangers administrators were "shifting the goalposts" too often during negotiations.

Said the 52-year-old businessman: "We've always said we are interested in Rangers but any deal that is concluded has to be realistic. The previous time, we were allowed to sell players, but not buy any for the next season, which is not practical.

"I'll concede that I am a fan only and my expertise is limited, but the problem at Rangers can be fixed with a restructuring plan. So, after shuttling up and down the UK in the last couple of months, I'm leaving it this time to my agents there to handle negotiations."

Administrators were expected to accept Miller's cutthroat price when he was the only bidder left, but his withdrawal now points to an even deeper financial crisis the 140-year-old institution are in.

Although he has been an unpopular figure among fans at Glasgow with his plans to liquidate Rangers, in walking away the American tycoon said it was a decision that "was entirely pragmatic and based upon his examination of the income and expenditure streams".

Administrators added that Miller's uneasiness were chiefly over "legacy contracts, the limitation of potential revenue streams and the expectation of required investment".

It is an ominous warning to any new owners, including Ng, of a quagmire that awaits them once they are handed the keys to Ibrox Stadium.

An observer in Glasgow, who has been tracking the Rangers bid, felt Ng should not get involved.

"It's a mess at Rangers and I'd strongly advise he walk away, for the sake of his sanity if nothing else," said the observer.

"If his bid goes wrong, he will have irate Rangers fans pestering and threatening him, as Bill Miller found out."

Of course, the high quality objective journalists in Scotland "reported" this as D&P having three back-up plans on the go while they were talking to Miller. Why do I suspect the version where Miller was the bidder, he pulled out, D&P thought "oh ****" and started ringing round anyone they had heard of is more plausible?

[TornadoHibby]

Got this earlier from another forum

Reasons for demolishing a Listed Building:

a.the building is not of special interest; or
b.the building is incapable of repair; or
c.the demolition of the building is essential to delivering significant
benefits to economic growth or the wider community; or
d.the repair of the building is not economically viable and that it has been marketed at a price reflecting its location and condition to potential restoring purchasers for a reasonable period.

I'm SURE they could get something out of that so Ibrox can be put out its misery! :cb

And on Murray Park

the West of Scotland ground is currently subject to a Waitrose planning application. so basically W of S can move along to Murray Park :wink:

I understand that Historic Scotland have a particular way of interpreting that particular wording which is quite different to what most people will have! :wink:

I understand also that it is rare for HS not to resist demolition of even the most run down Listed Building or those having no particular or relevant economic or community benefit of any significant nature! :wink:

[grunt]

I understand also that it is rare for HS not to resist demolition ...It's too early in the morning for triple negatives!

[BarneyK]

Funny how a Scottish newspaper can't report the truth about what's going on...

http://www.todayonline.com/Sports/EDC120510-0000060/Ng-back-in-the-hunt-for-Rangers



Of course, the high quality objective journalists in Scotland "reported" this as D&P having three back-up plans on the go while they were talking to Miller. Why do I suspect the version where Miller was the bidder, he pulled out, D&P thought "oh ****" and started ringing round anyone they had heard of is more plausible?

This is getting beyond confusing. Why did Haudit and Daudit name Windy Miller as preferred buyer at £11.2million when Ng was offering £20million? :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

This is getting beyond confusing. Why did Haudit and Daudit name Windy Miller as preferred buyer at £11.2million when Ng was offering £20million? :dunno:


BilliNg withdrew his offer as Fudd and Flips kept moving the goalposts

[Just Alf]

It's too early in the morning for triple negatives!

Defo not "For the avoidance of doubt" LOL ;-)

[shagpile]

BilliNg withdrew his offer as Fudd and Flips kept moving the goalposts

Fudd & Flips are working for one guy. Craigy boy. He installed them as administrators & he is pulling their strings. According to F & F the new bidders have come to a deal with Whyte whereby he will sell his shares for £1. Call me cynical, but guys like Whyte do not do charity. Under any circumstances.

[BarneyK]

Fudd & Flips are working for one guy. Craigy boy. He installed them as administrators & he is pulling their strings. According to F & F the new bidders have come to a deal with Whyte whereby he will sell his shares for £1. Call me cynical, but guys like Whyte do not do charity. Under any circumstances.

Especially as he seems to be IT as far as the Ticketus deal is concerned.

[JeMeSouviens]

Incredible bit from the Record this morning on Hun players:



Whitehouse: “The advice we have had is that their employment contracts would TUPE over to the new company.

“If they resisted that and said, ‘We don’t want to transfer’ there would then be agreement between club and SFA as to whether their registration could transfer to the new club.

“With the co-operation of the SFA our understanding is that they would work to secure a scenario where the players would have to transfer abroad, because they would not be registered in England or in Scotland.

“So, to cut to the chase, we think the risk there is low.”


So, he's saying that the SFA has agreed to collude with Der Hun to force the players to accept their contracts going to NewHuns or they'll freeze them out of British football? Even if it's true, SFA vs Employment law, bit of a mismatch I'd have thought. :wink:

[Lungo--Drom]

This is really getting crackers now isn't it? :faf:

Bill Ng back in the race too it says at the bottom of the same article. Why don't they just fill the pitch up with blue foam and everyone who has ever been connected with the club in any way and has more than £10 in their wallet can turn up in a pair of blue swimming trunks and they can all play together in the blue bubbles while Puff the Blue Magic Dragon floats about overhead singing and laughing "Come on the teddy bears...ha ha ha!" in a big deep voice while the reporters in the stands can phone back more and more bid stories to their papers.

It would be just as realistic as all this crap coming out in the papers. Jings :rolleyes:


****** Souness now:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2142102/Graeme-Souness-return-Rangers.html

[shagpile]

Incredible bit from the Record this morning on Hun players:



So, he's saying that the SFA has agreed to collude with Der Hun to force the players to accept their contracts going to NewHuns or they'll freeze them out of British football? Even if it's true, SFA vs Employment law, bit of a mismatch I'd have thought. :wink:

SFA versus anyone would be a mismatch. Inept, self servicing, OF loving institution that it is. If they had any balls they would be at F & F asking for some answers as to how long they are going to **** people around. Other member clubs have commitments too. Ones that have an effect on the lives of their supporters & employees. SPl/SFL/ SFA. Crap.

[Lungo--Drom]

"It is really crazy," Ng, who was already fast asleep when the latest events unfolded in Glasgow, told Today. "There were something like 20 missed calls from Scotland on my phone when I woke up. "I am now told they are willing to accept 50 per cent of what I had initially offered. It seems they are now more receptive and no longer digging in their heels with unrealistic demands."

:faf: :faf: :faf:

Starting to think I was right, someone must have put pressure on Duff & Phelps to "come up with a deal or yous are gonnae get malkied" :violin:
Bill Ng you are totally correct, it really is crazy :cb


Funny how a Scottish newspaper can't report the truth about what's going on...

http://www.todayonline.com/Sports/EDC120510-0000060/Ng-back-in-the-hunt-for-Rangers



Of course, the high quality objective journalists in Scotland "reported" this as D&P having three back-up plans on the go while they were talking to Miller. Why do I suspect the version where Miller was the bidder, he pulled out, D&P thought "oh ****" and started ringing round anyone they had heard of is more plausible?

[Winston Ingram]

Something is afoot...


CELTIC Football Club has today issued a statement regarding the ongoing situation in Scottish football.

As the Club prepares for the final league match of this season, when the SPL trophy will be presented to Celtic after Sunday’s game against Hearts, Chief Executive Peter Lawwell also thanked the Celtic supporters for their unwavering backing of the team throughout the campaign, which has helped to deliver the title back to its rightful place.

The Chief Executive said: “We are fully aware of our supporters´ concerns regarding the current situation across Scottish football and the breadth of opinion within our supporter base.

“The issues are complex and there is much uncertainty. Indeed, the situation repeatedly changes, even on a daily basis. I am sure our supporters understand that these developments are receiving our full focus and attention.

“Our guiding principle is that we will do what is in the best interests of Celtic Football Club and our supporters, consistent with upholding the interests and reputation of Scottish football.

“I can also give an assurance that we will communicate further and directly with our supporters at the appropriate time.

“Celtic Football Club is an institution which is about to celebrate its 125th season and we will be proud to mark this season as Champions of Scotland. Your magnificent support has played a vital role in bringing the Scottish Premier League title back home to Celtic Park.

“As Neil said recently, we have never been more united and I know this unity will be vital as we move forward.

“We look forward to Sunday´s match when we will celebrate all that is great about our Club and I am sure we will celebrate as only a packed Celtic Park knows how."

I'm hoping this means there are some legs in the article posted on Pie & Bovril:greengrin

[down-the-slope]

"I am now told they are willing to accept 50 per cent of what I had initially offered. It seems they are now more receptive and no longer digging in their heels with unrealistic demands."Besides the Singapore group, the only one identified in the latest effort to find new owners for the club, two other bids have been submitted at the 11th hour by another foreign consortium and a group of British businessmen.The interest from Ng's group, with their £20-million offer, was first revealed in March as one of five parties, which dwindled to three last month, in the chase for Rangers.They emerged as the front runners after the Blue Knights, spearheaded by former club director Paul Murray, dropped out on April 16 only for Ng to follow suit four days later, with claims that Rangers administrators were "shifting the goalposts" too often during negotiations.Said the 52-year-old businessman: "We've always said we are interested in Rangers but any deal that is concluded has to be realistic. The previous time, we were allowed to sell players, but not buy any for the next season, which is not practical.That is even more laughable....the buying players or not is not in D&P's gift......so does he think the 12 month transfer ban will disappear...dont think so.....Cue another Bill doing walking away......

[down-the-slope]

Something is afoot...



I'm hoping this means there are some legs in the article posted on Pie & Bovril:greengrin


After the Hibs Boards masterstroke of marketing we might be the only club to increase ST numbers for next season.....we might just get a more level playing field out of this without the SPL/SFA having to make any desicions :greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

After the Hibs Boards masterstroke of marketing we might be the only club to increase ST numbers for next season.....we might just get a more level playing field out of this without the SPL/SFA having to make any desicions :greengrin


I’m particularly pleased with the ‘interests of our supporters bit’ (they want them emptied), ‘the reputation of Scottish football’ part (it’ll be ruined if the newco comes in) and ‘we will communicate further and directly…’ (they obviously plan an announcement’ Hail Hail…:greengrin

[Just Alf]

"I am now told they are willing to accept 50 per cent of what I had initially offered. It seems they are now more receptive and no longer digging in their heels with unrealistic demands."Besides the Singapore group, the only one identified in the latest effort to find new owners for the club, two other bids have been submitted at the 11th hour by another foreign consortium and a group of British businessmen.The interest from Ng's group, with their £20-million offer, was first revealed in March as one of five parties...

so Duff and Duffer could have doubled the creditors "pot"?

Who are they representing again?

I can see certain peeps being sued for incompetence at this rate :-)

[ScottB]

I’m particularly pleased with the ‘interests of our supporters bit’ (they want them emptied), ‘the reputation of Scottish football’ part (it’ll be ruined if the newco comes in) and ‘we will communicate further and directly…’ (they obviously plan an announcement’ Hail Hail…:greengrin

For the first time I find myself hoping Hibs stand shoulder to shoulder with the lesser Greens.

If there were supposedly 3 clubs opposed to Rangers, one known to be Dunfermline, I'd suspect the other two are us and them... Certainly Rod's statements up until now have a similar ring to that Celtic one...

[joe breezy]

Alex Thomson's latest blog

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-administrators-overoptimism/1435


Well – we should all know more than enough to be wary – very wary – of Duff and Phelps the administrators of Rangers FC being optimistic. It’s their pathology. In D&P world the cup’s not so such half full as flowing into a series of overflow-vats.


Some reality here. Check what Mr Whitehouse of D&P is saying in the “small print”.

Even he suggests at least one of the four “bids” is a rank outsider. He admits no credible, detailed rescue package is yet really on the table at all. A lot of guff about hope, credibility – nothing about cash.

He admits all talk thus far from all “bidders” has set the money going into the rescue package at levels nowhere near enough to satisfy the key creditors. They’re saying “don’t be daft” at what’s been suggested thus far.

Alarmingly D&P seem to think that if a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) is put in place as a way of rescuing Rangers by agreeing a deal with major creditors, then Rangers can play football in Europe somehow. I suggest they call UEFA urgently where I’ve talked in detail. UEFA insists a CVA is a change in legal status and means a three year ban – just like setting up a Newco: “It’s a loophole. We recognise it as a loophole and we wish to close it,” their spokesman told me late last week.

It’s critical to any proposed income flow at Ibrox and this morning the administrators are stressing this. Yes – they need to call UEFA.

And yes – setting up any kind of CVA rescue will take weeks – I’m reliably informed around six weeks.

No amount of talking up the bids in terms of a couple being from people who will be popular among fans is going to untie this – nor will it put more money on the table and a lot more needs to be on it and fast.

Ticketus – the London ticket company now one of the main creditors of Rangers and major shareholder Craig Whyte, have just told me they are not part of any current bid for Rangers.

“We’re out of all that – and happy to sit on the sidelines,” said their spokesman.

They’ve other fish in the fryer. Later today expect them to file a legal claim for £27m against Mr Whyte for season tickets he “bought” from them.

They insist the money was for tickets only, not for buying the club as has been reported elsewhere.

They expect a “long and protracted” legal case. But what if Mr Whyte should lose and does not have money like this?

“Well we know he has a large house in the Highlands of Scotland and another in the south of France. We know he has a web of financial arrangements based in the British Virgin Islands tax haven and we’re very patient about all this,” said the PR company who represent Ticketus.
Mr Whyte himself has indicated what the world and his dog already know well, that he cannot and will not realise anything like the £30m he was aiming to get by selling up his stake, just a few weeks ago.

And football? The club cannot sell season tickets at all in the current complete confusion. The squad have no clear idea what money they’ll get after next month when a lot of player contracts run out. Football’s a very short career, so facing a Euro-ban and wages/contractual confusion, many will hightail it from Ibrox to other clubs leaving potentially a squad of youths, never-will-bes and have-beens. And a manager as yet unable to buy, because of a year ban on buying because the club brought the game into disrepute over financial mismanagement.

What seems astonishing too is another D&P admission – that it’s basically being left to manager Ally McCoist to brief the players on this mess day by day. These guys need to hear from financial rather than football brains one would have thought.

[greenginger]

Just when der Hun was getting a bit optimistic its nice to have Thomo deliver a reality check. :agree:

[Jim44]

There's an odd sense of excitement and optimism over on FF as they discuss who they prefer between Souness and Smith as the new Messiah who ' will get them out of the mess by Sunday.' Maybe they should be thinking more along the lines of Houdini or Paul Daniels.

[shagpile]

For the first time I find myself hoping Hibs stand shoulder to shoulder with the lesser Greens.

If there were supposedly 3 clubs opposed to Rangers, one known to be Dunfermline, I'd suspect the other two are us and them... Certainly Rod's statements up until now have a similar ring to that Celtic one...

No longer relevant. Ross County take their place at the table.

[Winston Ingram]

For the first time I find myself hoping Hibs stand shoulder to shoulder with the lesser Greens.

If there were supposedly 3 clubs opposed to Rangers, one known to be Dunfermline, I'd suspect the other two are us and them... Certainly Rod's statements up until now have a similar ring to that Celtic one...

I've no doubt we will. I also expect Hearts to also. That's 3 of the 5 votes needed to block any instant admission to a newco.

They only need 2 more and the others are voting to protect the income brought by Rangers. A strong Celtic is far more value to the SPL than a heavily sanction Newco Hun so I'm pretty sure that the threat of losing Celtic instead is afar bigger concern and should be enough to swing the Huns into div 3.:agree:

[ScottB]

No longer relevant. Ross County take their place at the table.

I know that, I meant that at the time it was rumoured 3 clubs had said no.

Ross County are rumoured to be pro Rangers, so it could well be just us and them in favour of doing the right thing...

[Liberal Hibby]

No longer relevant. Ross County take their place at the table.

Surely it is still relevant -until Sunday at least. If Duff and Duffer announce liquidation tomorrow - then the Pars stay up?

[magpie1892]

There's an odd sense of excitement and optimism over on FF as they discuss who they prefer between Souness and Smith as the new Messiah who ' will get them out of the mess by Sunday.' Maybe they should be thinking more along the lines of Houdini or Paul Daniels.

I have it on pretty good authority that Smith is looking to get back into management, most likely in England.

He may well have had a change of heart but the reason he jacked it in at Ipox in the first place is cause he knew what was around the corner.

[cad]

I've no doubt we will. I also expect Hearts to also. That's 3 of the 5 votes needed to block any instant admission to a newco.

They only need 2 more and the others are voting to protect the income brought by Rangers. A strong Celtic is far more value to the SPL than a heavily sanction Newco Hun so I'm pretty sure that the threat of losing Celtic instead is afar bigger concern and should be enough to swing the Huns into div 3.:agree:


Killie , Dundee Utd , St Mirren, Motherwell St Johnstone , Ross County , ICT , Hibs Hearts ,Aberdeen Celtic

Teams in bold I see wanting Rangers to get the full monty ,no sure about Well ,Dun Utd St Johnstone St Mirren ICT or Ross County.

St Johnstone, Motherwell and Dun Utd definitely maybe could go either way , 4 in bold hold the away crowds no Rangers its not a hard call financially

Killie are out on a limb IMO ,Celtic boycott them along with any other team for there chairman's Integrity quote the writings on the wall,
Ive always enjoyed Killie had a great time there win or lose the chairmans put them in a terrible position if you ask me .

Who else would come up with Ross County , Dundee were next in-line I think 3,675 punters V Livingston their last game,
Killie had 6,878 V Motherwell teams boycott Killie and go to Dundee thats a huge swing financially, maybe people wont stop going ,
but backing The Huns isnt the way to find out IMO , some chit chat going on behind the scenes is a certainty , maybe even Vlad will be interested ,or is he worried about being next

[CropleyWasGod]

I've no doubt we will. I also expect Hearts to also. That's 3 of the 5 votes needed to block any instant admission to a newco.

They only need 2 more and the others are voting to protect the income brought by Rangers. A strong Celtic is far more value to the SPL than a heavily sanction Newco Hun so I'm pretty sure that the threat of losing Celtic instead is afar bigger concern and should be enough to swing the Huns into div 3.:agree:

Are you sure about Hearts, bearing in mind their likely future?

[jonty]

And in the meantime, we're still awaiting the outcome of the Big Tax Case, the Wee Tax Case and the double-contracts?

[JeMeSouviens]

Are you sure about Hearts, bearing in mind their likely future?

Speaking of which, if the ongoing HMRC investigation at the PBS does send them up the same creek as Der Hun, things are looking even less paddly for our cuddly neighbours. If the Huns can barely attract money as a going concern, how much less will that be the case for Hearts? Especially given that, unlike the Huns, they're sitting on top of some prime real estate. The point at which a break up sale looks the best option must surely come a good bit sooner for them?

[RyeSloan]

I've no doubt we will. I also expect Hearts to also. That's 3 of the 5 votes needed to block any instant admission to a newco.

They only need 2 more and the others are voting to protect the income brought by Rangers. A strong Celtic is far more value to the SPL than a heavily sanction Newco Hun so I'm pretty sure that the threat of losing Celtic instead is afar bigger concern and should be enough to swing the Huns into div 3.:agree:


What Newco? There is no newco and soon there will be no oldco either.

A few pages back it seemed quite clear that a UEFA licence was required to play in the SPL. A UEFA licence cannot be given to a club/newco that is less than 3 years old therefore is this whole newco discussion not just pie in the sky...

1) there is no newco

2) any newco cannot get a UEFA licence for 3 years so cannot compete in the SPL until that time.


It's rather typical of this whole episode that the spotlight was on just how any newco could be accomodated long before any newco became a reality or before anyone bothered to check the rules of the governing body.

The focus here should be on getting the tax payers money that is due yet week after week the creditors have been relegated to mere after thoughts as the admins and the weegie press tried everything to persuade us that it's the football club and it's history that must be saved at all costs....be that costs to the tax man, costs to the SFA and the biggest cost of all; sporting integrity.

[CropleyWasGod]

Speaking of which, if the ongoing HMRC investigation at the PBS does send them up the same creek as Der Hun, things are looking even less paddly for our cuddly neighbours. If the Huns can barely attract money as a going concern, how much less will that be the case for Hearts? Especially given that, unlike the Huns, they're sitting on top of some prime real estate. The point at which a break up sale looks the best option must surely come a good bit sooner for them?

If an administrator is appointed at Hearts, they won't be in post very long. The administrator will identify, very quickly, that there is no prospect of a better return to creditors through administration, as opposed to liquidation. Liquidation will follow very quickly.

The likelier scenario is that HMRC will go for a winding-up order, and they will go straight to liquidation.

However... and Cav is your man on this point.... AFAIK, there is little prospect of anyone other than the secured creditor (including HMRC) getting anything.

[Moulin Yarns]

Still trying the CVA route in spite of the evidence to the contrary :confused:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins10171.htm (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins10171.htm)

Operating a policy of withholding payment of Crown monies is not just simply a matter of non- payment. There will be evidence that the debtor has

paid other creditors first Paid Dunfermline?
funded their business or lifestyle by consistently withholding Crown Monies That is how Craigie ran the club
largely debt owing to the Crown the tax cases

[Seveno]

Are you sure about Hearts, bearing in mind their likely future?


Well the Mad One isnt going to be involved in their future, is he ? I'm sure that he would like to stick one up Rangers as his parting shot to the corrupt Scottish football.

[jgl07]

Are you sure about Hearts, bearing in mind their likely future?

It's a very different situation with Hearts given the most of the cash is owed to Romanov related companies. Administration is never likely to be on for Hearts or certainly not at this stage. I think that the future for Hearts is an exodus of their best (or rather highest paid) players with youth team members taking their places.

They cannot build up any debts with other companies or institutions (bar HMRC) as no-one will give them any credit. So as long as HMRC keep threatening to wind them up and get paid, Hearts will stagger along much as they have done this season.

The crunch will come in around a years time if Hearts' season ticket holder refuse to renew or the club is relegated.

I don't think that the whole Newco thing will be of much concern to Romanov.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Souness has not been contacted and is not interested in returning to Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18019164

So much for that one then. More pish and wind from D&P exposed.

[Disc O'Dave]

Sorry if posted already......

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/rangers-takeover-new-bidders-have-rangers-ties-1-2283862?commentspage=1#commentsSection

You would think they would also hold out for a couple of Rangers blazers and a golf umbrella.......but has it really come down to some faux silk items from the clubstore......?

[Winston Ingram]

Are you sure about Hearts, bearing in mind their likely future?

Considering Vlad's rants against the Old Firm I would say yes. Logically it would make more sense to vote them in but when has his head ever ruled his heart?

[Winston Ingram]

What Newco? There is no newco and soon there will be no oldco either.

A few pages back it seemed quite clear that a UEFA licence was required to play in the SPL. A UEFA licence cannot be given to a club/newco that is less than 3 years old therefore is this whole newco discussion not just pie in the sky...

1) there is no newco

2) any newco cannot get a UEFA licence for 3 years so cannot compete in the SPL until that time.


It's rather typical of this whole episode that the spotlight was on just how any newco could be accomodated long before any newco became a reality or before anyone bothered to check the rules of the governing body.

The focus here should be on getting the tax payers money that is due yet week after week the creditors have been relegated to mere after thoughts as the admins and the weegie press tried everything to persuade us that it's the football club and it's history that must be saved at all costs....be that costs to the tax man, costs to the SFA and the biggest cost of all; sporting integrity.

I wasn't aware they needed a UEFA licence to play in the SPL. From what I understand Hearts missed deadline will mean they will not get a UEFA licence but nothing seems to be happening about them getting emptied by the SPL.

Totally agree on with you on what the focus should be:agree: