Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Spike Mandela]

Yes, but they owe it to themselves... What could go wrong?

:greengrin:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

Yes, but they owe it to themselves... What could go wrong?

To be fair, owing to themselves is what saved them.


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[Bostonhibby]

To be fair, owing to themselves is what saved them.


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:agree: All big teams do it.

The Rangers do seem to require frequent and large capital injections as well - they are looking like a real leaky bucket, similar to the now defunct Glasgow rangers.

[greenginger]

They've got themselves a £ 6.5 million loan and will use £ 5 million to pay back Ashley ( that is assuming there have not been other penalties for default ) Now that leaves £ 1.5 million .

Did they not say they needed £ 2.5 million in December .

I wonder who did not get their money ?

[Colr]

They've got themselves a £ 6.5 million loan and will use £ 5 million to pay back Ashley ( that is assuming there have not been other penalties for default ) Now that leaves £ 1.5 million .

Did they not say they needed £ 2.5 million in December .

I wonder who did not get their money ?

Provvy?

[CropleyWasGod]

"The same basis as other recent loans".

Does that mean interest - free, exorbitant interest, secured up to the armpits....?

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[Bostonhibby]

"The same basis as other recent loans".

Does that mean interest - free, exorbitant interest, secured up to the armpits....?

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They're up to their knees in debts and loans, with interest rates sky high.

[grunt]

They're up to their knees in debts and loans, with interest rates sky high.Better than being up to their knees in other stuff?

[CropleyWasGod]

They're up to their knees in debts and loans, with interest rates sky high.
They are the Wonga boys....

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[Bostonhibby]

We are the Wonga boys....

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:greengrin that's the missing line I couldn't dredge up:thumbsup:

[H18S NX]

They're up to their knees in debts and loans, with interest rates sky high.....:top marks

[ballengeich]

They've got themselves a £ 6.5 million loan and will use £ 5 million to pay back Ashley ( that is assuming there have not been other penalties for default ) Now that leaves £ 1.5 million .

Did they not say they needed £ 2.5 million in December .

I wonder who did not get their money ?

I think that rather than needing £2.5 million in December they said they needed £2.5m by the end of the season with the first tranche required in December. Your underlying point is correct though, as they'll need more from somewhere before the sale of 16-17 season tickets starts.

I suspect that the £2.5 million figure involved a few optimistic assumptions and it may well be more by April. If you add together the money the board members spent on shares, the existing loan, this new amount and what's required in the next few months these guys have collectively spent around £15 million. They don't know when, or even if, they'll ever get it back. They're obviously wealthy by normal standards, but not on Ashley's scale. If you invested £15 million in profitable businesses which pay dividends you'd make about £1 million a year and I reckon that amount is a significant sacrifice for them.

If they get promoted they can probably run on a break-even basis while paying the second-highest wages in Scotland due to the increased income in the premier division, but there's no sign of the kind of warchest some of the supporters are still expecting.

[Ozyhibby]

Is it this Barry Scott who has lent Rangers the money?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2845954/FSA-blacklists-missing-Barum-brokers.html



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[HoboHarry]

Is it this Barry Scott who has lent Rangers the money?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2845954/FSA-blacklists-missing-Barum-brokers.html



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Oh God I hope so... lol

[Bostonhibby]

Is it this Barry Scott who has lent Rangers the money?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2845954/FSA-blacklists-missing-Barum-brokers.html



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He certainly seems to have the credentials of all the recent "white knight" types but he hasn't really stolen enough money or got serious enough offences on his record to make the grade here.

There was a Barry Scott guy who used to appear in the cillit bang adverts but he's dead so its unlikely to be him.

[grunt]

Is it this Barry Scott who has lent Rangers the money?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2845954/FSA-blacklists-missing-Barum-brokers.html

You would expect that some fine investigative journalist from our wonderful Scottish Media will at this very minute be hunting to find out more about these new investors.

[Jack]

You would expect that some fine investigative journalist from our wonderful Scottish Media will at this very minute be hunting to find out more about these new suckers.

Fixed that :-)

[greenginger]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sleeping-with-the-fascists/

Phil reckons the £ 5 million payback comes with strings attached and won't be accepted.

[jacomo]

How is it that Dave King claimed to have raised the £5m in an hour before the AGM, yet now it transpires that the company has taken out another loan to repay the SD loan?

[Stax]

He certainly seems to have the credentials of all the recent "white knight" types but he hasn't really stolen enough money or got serious enough offences on his record to make the grade here.

There was a Barry Scott guy who used to appear in the cillit bang adverts but he's dead so its unlikely to be him.
Bang and the dirt is gone,... pretty apt for a couple of clubs I can think of.

[1875godsgift]

How is it that Dave King claimed to have raised the £5m in an hour before the AGM, yet now it transpires that the company has taken out another loan to repay the SD loan?

Because he talks through his ********?

[Bostonhibby]

How is it that Dave King claimed to have raised the £5m in an hour before the AGM, yet now it transpires that the company has taken out another loan to repay the SD loan?

It's just possible he could be glibly and shamelessly lying?:dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it this Barry Scott who has lent Rangers the money?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2845954/FSA-blacklists-missing-Barum-brokers.html



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You're ahead of JJ on this one :)

However, he has also just tweeted that an Andy Ross in HK also has acquaintance with the judicial system there :)

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[CropleyWasGod]

And then there's this....

http://www.evostikleague.co.uk/share-sale-boosts-relegated-reds-19816

These guys are supporters of Workington Town. Clearly Rangers are their wee team.


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[HoboHarry]

You're ahead of JJ on this one :)

However, he has also just tweeted that an Andy Ross in HK also has acquaintance with the judicial system there :)

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He was miles ahead - JJ didn't have it until I gave him it which I copied from Ozhibby's post. I always enjoy putting the cat among the pigeons...... :greengrin

[Colr]

And then there's this....

http://www.evostikleague.co.uk/share-sale-boosts-relegated-reds-19816

These guys are supporters of Workington Town. Clearly Rangers are their wee team.


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Managed by former Hibbie, Derek Townsley!

[brog]

You're ahead of JJ on this one :)

However, he has also just tweeted that an Andy Ross in HK also has acquaintance with the judicial system there :)

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Hmmm! Fits with info I received from another HK based supporter of that fine institution at a prominent race meeting a month or so ago. I should say this person is totally sound, straight as a dye & I believe he & other friends have been continually knocked back in their attempts to invest in Sevco. Perhaps their insistence on due diligence pre investment was a roadblock! :wink: The indirect comment was they couldn't understand why upstanding, wealthy supporters were continually rejected while hooks & crooks appeared to be pursued for investment. I should say neither of these 2 guys were mentioned by name.

[greenginger]

Andrew Ross and the USA Securities Exchange Commission.


https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2014/34-73862.pdf

[CropleyWasGod]

It's almost farcical that we can dig this stuff up so quickly, while the professional journalists prevaricate about whether to publish it.

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[PatHead]

It's almost farcical that we can dig this stuff up so quickly, while the professional journalists prevaricate about whether to publish it.

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They don't prevaricate, they just don't print it as they are scared to upset the new club.

[greenginger]

Ross got fined $ 20,000 and banned from working as an accountant on any USA connected business for 3 years . After that he could apply to be re-instated.

http://www.bakertillyinternational.com/media/1956886/doing-business-in-hong-kong.pdf

It did'nt cost him his job. He's still there page 18. Baker Tilly contact in Hong Kong - Andrew Ross.

[Bostonhibby]

They don't prevaricate, they just don't print it as they are scared to upset the new club.

:agree: And they don't want to face the vicious reaction from their fans either, minority obviously.

[portycabbage]

He certainly seems to have the credentials of all the recent "white knight" types but he hasn't really stolen enough money or got serious enough offences on his record to make the grade here.

There was a Barry Scott guy who used to appear in the cillit bang adverts but he's dead so its unlikely to be him.

The Barry Scott in the ads was an actor, and it appears he's only dead for the purpose of satire:
http://www.oxygen.ie/cillit-bangs-barry-scott-found-dead/
http://www.oxygen.ie/an-open-letter-to-barry-scott/

Barry Scott's involvement would certainly make any "whispers in the board room" easier to hear!

[Brunswickbill]

If this is Andy Ross he's just the right guy to support the GASL - fined for failure to detect fraud. You couldnie make it up

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/66468/sec-orders-baker-tilly-disgorge-us75000-audit-fees-failure-detect-fraud

[Bostonhibby]

The Barry Scott in the ads was an actor, and it appears he's only dead for the purpose of satire:
http://www.oxygen.ie/cillit-bangs-barry-scott-found-dead/
http://www.oxygen.ie/an-open-letter-to-barry-scott/

Barry Scott's involvement would certainly make any "whispers in the board room" easier to hear!

:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

If this is Andy Ross he's just the right guy to support the GASL - fined for failure to detect fraud. You couldnie make it up

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/66468/sec-orders-baker-tilly-disgorge-us75000-audit-fees-failure-detect-fraud

Is there anyone involved in bank rolling them who either hasn't already been convicted of offences or doesn't have some charges hanging over them? The GFA fit and proper person police must be working flat out checking all this out to ensure Scottish Football isn't risking further damage to its reputation.

[Brunswickbill]

Is there anyone involved in bank rolling them who either hasn't already been convicted of offences or doesn't have some charges hanging over them? The GFA fit and proper person police must be working flat out checking all this out to ensure Scottish Football isn't risking further damage to its reputation.

James Easdale - now lionised by JJ

[Bostonhibby]

James Easdale - now lionised by JJ

:aok: Suppose it makes sense to have someone on board who has managed to stay clear of the law.

[Brunswickbill]

:aok: Suppose it makes sense to have someone on board who has managed to stay clear of the law.

Maybe that's why he resigned from the Board. Didn't like associating with these type of chaps.

[Bostonhibby]

Maybe that's why he resigned from the Board. Didn't like associating with these type of chaps.

They probably told him to go away and come back when he has got a few fraud or tax evasion convictions under his belt.

[CropleyWasGod]

James Easdale - now lionised by JJ
He did have VAT evasion charges against him, although they were dropped.

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[Bostonhibby]

He did have VAT evasion charges against him, although they were dropped.

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At least he's trying though.

[Brunswickbill]

He did have VAT evasion charges against him, although they were dropped.

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His bro done the porridge.

[Ozyhibby]

Looking at these pair of chancers, they don't strike me as the type to just provide soft loans with no chance of a return. They will surely be expecting a return on their cash.


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[Bostonhibby]

Looking at these pair of chancers, they don't strike me as the type to just provide soft loans with no chance of a return. They will surely be expecting a return on their cash.


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Maybe they are going to merge the rangers with Workington and get them into their beloved England that way?

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe they are going to merge the rangers with Workington and get them into their beloved England that way?
That's been posited on Twitter.

The scamps

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[CropleyWasGod]

Looking at these pair of chancers, they don't strike me as the type to just provide soft loans with no chance of a return. They will surely be expecting a return on their cash.


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The press release did say that the loans were on the same basis as "recent "loans. That may mean that security has been given.

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[Bostonhibby]

That's been posited on Twitter.

The scamps

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Interesting, am guessing that as Workington have been around the longest and seem to have won the most honours the merger will be one where the new boys are absorbed into their more successful partners identity? they play in red and an orange coloured away strip so maybe the Workington rangers is a decent compromise for both sides?

It should be pretty easy to get to Workington by ferry from Northern Ireland so it's maybe not as daft an idea as it sounds.

[Ozyhibby]

Couldn't be, could it?
https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/448393.html?c=on



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[HoboHarry]

Couldn't be, could it?
https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/448393.html?c=on



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Where's that Daffy Duck gif when you need it? :greengrin

[Brunswickbill]

It's strange that King welcomes these two Workington shareholders as he didn't seem to like the idea of having people involved in RIPFC who had interests in other clubs when he proposed Resolution 11 at the Sevco AGM

11. “THAT: the Articles of Association of the Company, be and are hereby amended by inserting a new Article 15.3 as follows:-
“No member shall be entitled to vote at any general meeting or at any separate meeting of the holders of any class of any shares in the Company, either in person or by proxy, in respect of any shares held by him (whether absolutely or as a trustee, either alone or in conjunction with one or more associates or solely through an associate or associates (even where such person has no formal interest)) if he is involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management or administration of a Club, or has any power whatsoever to influence the management or administration of a Club and the Directors of the Company shall be entitled at their sole discretion and without issuing reasons therefor to determine whether or not a member does have such involvement in or power to influence a Club.
For the purposes of this Article “Club” shall mean any football club in membership of a national association which is in membership with FIFA other than Rangers Football Club.”

Just as well his pal, Big Mike, stopped him from making a fool of himself.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.scotzine.com/2016/01/rangers-announce-who-helped-to-pay-off-mike-ashleys-5-million-loan/


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-73157370.html


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[HoboHarry]

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-73157370.html


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You are on a roll today Ozy dear boy...... :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.scotzine.com/2016/01/rangers-announce-who-helped-to-pay-off-mike-ashleys-5-million-loan/


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Brilliant. :cb

[HoboHarry]

Brilliant. :cb
CWG - is there any benefit at all to DK driving them to admin or worse? The decisions he makes are just bereft of logic....

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG - is there any benefit at all to DK driving them to admin or worse? The decisions he makes are just bereft of logic....

It's not that it's bereft of logic.... it just reeks of the same old story. ie that RIFC can't get money from anywhere other than the dodgiest of sources. I'd love to see the actual terms of this latest loans. Sure, the Bears will lap it up if SD are paid off, but I can't see it as anything other than (probably expensive) window-dressing.

As for admin, that's no likelier or unlikelier than it was before. They still need cash, at least to get them until the STs go on sale. DK seems to be gambling everything on that.

[HoboHarry]

It's not that it's bereft of logic.... it just reeks of the same old story. ie that RIFC can't get money from anywhere other than the dodgiest of sources. I'd love to see the actual terms of this latest loans. Sure, the Bears will lap it up if SD are paid off, but I can't see it as anything other than (probably expensive) window-dressing.

As for admin, that's no likelier or unlikelier than it was before. They still need cash, at least to get them until the STs go on sale. DK seems to be gambling everything on that.
It was stated somewhere (possibly in court?) that they were not being charged interest or late payments on the overdue loan from SD. If that is true they would have been better off with the status quo surely? I am struggling to believe that these chancers are loaning money from the goodness of their hearts......

[HFC 0-7]

It was stated somewhere (possibly in court?) that they were not being charged interest or late payments on the overdue loan from SD. If that is true they would have been better off with the status quo surely? I am struggling to believe that these chancers are loaning money from the goodness of their hearts......

They were not being charged interest but whilst they owed the money to MA I believe he was getting a higher % of the merchandise sales. If admin was to come, they also wouldn't want MA having and securities I would imagine.

[monktonharp]

It is comforting to know/see that The Rangers, are still meddling with some dodgy characters in an attempt to free themselves of a huge monkey round their back. It would be pleasing, or shall we say correct if we could see some sort of investigation from the SFA, given the known facts about Scott in particular and that The Rangers are actually putting him forward as a person fit to be involved in Scottish football. will 2016 be the year we see the SFA clean up their act,and this total farce?

[GreenLake]

http://www.scotzine.com/2016/01/rangers-announce-who-helped-to-pay-off-mike-ashleys-5-million-loan/


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You couldn't make this up. :faf:

[Onion]

You couldn't make this up. :faf:

SFA : Nothing to see here, move along.

[jabis]

http://www.scotzine.com/2016/01/rangers-announce-who-helped-to-pay-off-mike-ashleys-5-million-loan/


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page seems to have been taken down😕

[Jack]

It is comforting to know/see that The Rangers, are still meddling with some dodgy characters in an attempt to free themselves of a huge monkey round their back. It would be pleasing, or shall we say correct if we could see some sort of investigation from the SFA, given the known facts about Scott in particular and that The Rangers are actually putting him forward as a person fit to be involved in Scottish football. will 2016 be the year we see the SFA clean up their act,and this total farce?

Unless the dodgy duo are to become directors (I've not seen that anywhere or anything official that will swap loans to shares in the future) then they won't need to be put forward for the fit and proper test or have a level of shareholding that would interest the SFA.

[Ozyhibby]

Unless the dodgy duo are to become directors (I've not seen that anywhere or anything official that will swap loans to shares in the future) then they won't need to be put forward for the fit and proper test or have a level of shareholding that would interest the SFA.

I thought that rule had been changed? I'm pretty sure after Vlad, the rules were changed so that all involvement was covered.


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[bingo70]

I thought that rule had been changed? I'm pretty sure after Vlad, the rules were changed so that all involvement was covered.


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Would that not mean anybody signing up to our very own HSL scheme would be subject to sfa/spfl checks?

[Ozyhibby]

Would that not mean anybody signing up to our very own HSL scheme would be subject to sfa/spfl checks?

You could be right. They appear to have lent the money to RIFC even though TRFC borrowed the money from SD. Don't know if that is significant.


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[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/02/dd29c19b2f450d2a8e8166fa1a141f50.jpg



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[Mark79]

I see one of the boys loaning THEM money is none other than...

15827

trying to become cleaner than clean?

[Ozyhibby]

page seems to have been taken down[emoji53]

Rangers claiming it's a different Barry Scott.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Would that not mean anybody signing up to our very own HSL scheme would be subject to sfa/spfl checks?
It's about control.

Vlad, although not a shareholder or director, had control over Hearts. STF is the same.

HSL don't have control. Neither do these guys.

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[oldbutdim]

page seems to have been taken down

It's back up.

[grunt]

It's back up.Two amendments, covering themselves if the Barry Scott investing is not the same person as the Barry Scott who fled the country to avoid prosecution for fraud.

[jgl07]

Two amendments, covering themselves if the Barry Scott investing is not the same person as the Barry Scott who fled the country to avoid prosecution for fraud.
Bang and the fraud is gone!

[Brunswickbill]

JJ on the the loan
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/01/the-going-concern-squirrel/

[grunt]

JJ on the the loan
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/01/the-going-concern-squirrel/Pretty much zero content in his blog posts these days.

Here's his follow up post. He seems to go with the "Barry Scott is a criminal" view. It seems to me that Barry Scott is a fairly common name - it would be helpful if someone could ascertain for sure if the investing Barry is the same person as the fraudulent Barry.

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/a-loan-ponzi-scheme/

[Joe6-2]

Bang and the fraud is gone!

😂😂😂😂😂

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Bang and the fraud is gone!

:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/reverse-engineering/


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[CropleyWasGod]

Scotzine have accepted that the Barry Scott who has lent RIFC money is not the same one who fled the country.

[grunt]

Scotzine have accepted that the Barry Scott who has lent RIFC money is not the same one who fled the country.

Nice apology from the Scotzine chap. Wonder if JJ will follow up with an apology too?

[CropleyWasGod]

Nice apology from the Scotzine chap. Wonder if JJ will follow up with an apology too?

Someone also raised that point on JJ's blog. The comment was then deleted, presumably by JJ.

The company he mentions, Ibrox Park Holdings PLC, definitely isn't a UK company.

[grunt]

Nice apology from the Scotzine chap. Wonder if JJ will follow up with an apology too?And he has


I have been informed that the Barry Scott who has loaned money to Rangers is not the individual who embezzled £135,000 and absconded to New Zealand. I offer my unreserved apology to Mr Scott. I will edit and delete any articles or tweets predicated on my fallacious assumptions.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nice apology from the Scotzine chap. Wonder if JJ will follow up with an apology too?

He has now.

He hasn't, however, published my 2 queries about his "elegant solution". :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

He has now.

He hasn't, however, published my 2 queries about his "elegant solution". :greengrin

An 'elegant solution' to JJ would probably be any that use words like 'predicated' 'fallacious' and...most definitely...'posit', regardless of the practicality of the solution :greengrin

[Sergey]

The Rangers delve into their transfer war chest again and sign another player.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/10118480/rangers-sign-former-lech-poznan-goalkeeper-maciej-gostomski

To date; Transfers 2 - Total Spent = £0.00

[HoboHarry]

The Rangers delve into their transfer war chest again and sign another player.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11781/10118480/rangers-sign-former-lech-poznan-goalkeeper-maciej-gostomski

To date; Transfers 2 - Total Spent = £0.00
I read somewhere that the first player they signed had to buy out his own contract before signing for Sevco....

[EdinMike]

Both are for a whopping 6 month deals...

[Carheenlea]

Looking through a few pages the thread there seems to be a lot of links to two particular bloggers, Phil somebody and JJ. Never heard of either so wondering if their articles hold water or if it's just a load of wind and pish? Started to read one and lost interest half way through.

[Dan Sarf]

Both are for a whopping 6 month deals...


"This is a great opportunity for me and with my experience I think I can bring something to Rangers," Gostomski told the club website. (http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/gers-confirm-gostomski-signing/)
"They are a huge club with a great history and I am delighted to be here."



Em, no. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Looking through a few pages the thread there seems to be a lot of links to two particular bloggers, Phil somebody and JJ. Never heard of either so wondering if their articles hold water or if it's just a load of wind and pish? Started to read one and lost interest half way through.

JJ tends to be wind and pish, Phil less so.


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[Killiehibbie]

Looking through a few pages the thread there seems to be a lot of links to two particular bloggers, Phil somebody and JJ. Never heard of either so wondering if their articles hold water or if it's just a load of wind and pish? Started to read one and lost interest half way through.Lots of wishful thinking.

[Brunswickbill]

Scotzine have accepted that the Barry Scott who has lent RIFC money is not the same one who fled the country.

Where's Barry?

15829

[magpie1892]

JJ tends to be wind and pish, Phil less so.




PMc writes like a 12-year-old though. For the avoidance of doubt, it's tough going.

[grunt]

PMc writes like a 12-year-old though. For the avoidance of doubt, it's tough going.This is true.

[jacomo]

JJ tends to be wind and pish, Phil less so.


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If the real Barry Scott decides to take legal action, JJ might go quiet for a while. Accusing him of being a criminal based on mistaken identity is a bit dumb.

[monktonharp]

Both are for a whopping 6 month deals...and at least 1 is a idiot making quotes like they are a huge club with a fantastic history, or words to that effect. big yes, historic, eh..............naw bigoted, certainly huge

[jgl07]

If the real Barry Scott decides to take legal action, JJ might go quiet for a while. Accusing him of being a criminal based on mistaken identity is a bit dumb.
But which Barry Scott are we talking about?

There's seem to be at least three or four.

1. The Cillit Bang guy

2. The BNP Aberdeen organiser

3. The shady guy from Hong Kong

4. The Workington investor, or is that the one above?

The question remains as to why anyone would want to 'invest' in Rangers who was not a fool or a crook?

They have been haemorrhaging cash for so long that it does not seem a viable investment project. Something smells somewhere.

[monktonharp]

It is comforting to know/see that The Rangers, are still meddling with some dodgy characters in an attempt to free themselves of a huge monkey round their back. It would be pleasing, or shall we say correct if we could see some sort of investigation from the SFA, given the known facts about Scott in particular and that The Rangers are actually putting him forward as a person fit to be involved in Scottish football. will 2016 be the year we see the SFA clean up their act,and this total farce? I will now unreservedly retract this post, given the 'fact' that the afforementioned 'Scott' is not the 'Scott' refered to originally. the only other 'Scott' I have seen recently in the news was 'Barry Scott' from Aberdeen, who was charged for assault while acting as a bouncer, while trying to prevent damage to a 'trailer' inhis home town, which depicted slogans such as @keep Britain british ' and BNP. Correct me if I am wrong anyone. does have a certain ring to it though.

[monktonharp]

Good to see 'straight down the line' guys like Douglas Park , of Park coaches Hamilton, now involved with The Rangers. A guy that renewed his entire bus fleet with the proceeds of his work, during the miner's strike albeit 30 years ago by supplying buses to scab labour and police squads. another red white and blue mob being Yuill and Dodds of Strathaven, now operating with a good fleet in haulage. that's the kind of guys that will drag The Rangers out of the mire. :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

I think Barry Scott the crook will be suing Scotzine for saying he would be stupid enough to invest in Sevco


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[monktonharp]

I think Barry Scott the crook will be suing Scotzine for saying he would be stupid enough to invest in Sevco


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalklove it

[greenginger]

There is a post on SFM from some Bluenose who says he knows the Barry Scott who is investing :confused: in Rangers and says he comes originally from Hawick.

Don't know if that info is any use.

[GreenLake]

There is a post on SFM from some Bluenose who says he knows the Barry Scott who is investing :confused: in Rangers and says he comes originally from Hawick.

Don't know if that info is any use.

He might be trying to hoik something.

[Smartie]

I think Barry Scott the crook will be suing Scotzine for saying he would be stupid enough to invest in Sevco


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:faf:

Best post in the whole thread.

[greenginger]

Was one of the many RIFC court cases not meant to get an airing today ? maybe Chuckie's reclaiming motion.

Also the £ 5 million repayment has gone quiet , has it all gone through without a trumpet blast or waiting on a few minor details.

[s.a.m]

Was one of the many RIFC court cases not meant to get an airing today ? maybe Chuckie's reclaiming motion.

Also the £ 5 million repayment has gone quiet , has it all gone through without a trumpet blast or waiting on a few minor details.

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman · 3m3 minutes ago
At Edinburgh High Court for pre-trial hearing in case against Craig Whyte, Charles Green and others.

[s.a.m]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 33s34 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/684310095702929409) Appears to be a new charge against Craig Whyte: Refusing to give police passwords for 2 mobile phones and a laptop when ordered to do so.

0 retweets 0 likes

[Ozyhibby]

New indictment accuses Charles Green of taking over £200k from Rangers Youth Development Ltd to help "Sevco" purchase the Club's assets.


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[hibernia_inn]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman

According to the new indictment Craig Whyte is accused of fraudulently obtaining a total of £28,262,094 from Ticketus and Merchant Capital

[CropleyWasGod]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman

According to the new indictment Craig Whyte is accused of fraudulently obtaining a total of £28,262,094 from Ticketus and Merchant Capital
It will be interesting to hear SDM in the witness box on that one [emoji6]

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[hibernia_inn]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman

According to the indictment Charles Green is accused of fraudulently obtaining the sum of £5,500,000 to purchase the "assets of the club

[Ozyhibby]

Charles Green is also accused of raising £21 million "by fraud" during the Rangers IPO to the stock market.

Are Sevco liable for this? They are the beneficiaries of the IPO?


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[Hibee87]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman) 3m3 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/684337717216460800)
Green is also accused of "defrauding" investors of Rangers International Football Club and "Sevco 5088 ltd"

[CropleyWasGod]

Charles Green is also accused of raising £21 million "by fraud" during the Rangers IPO to the stock market.

Are Sevco liable for this? They are the beneficiaries of the IPO?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That would depend on the nature of the fraud, I reckon.

If it was, for example, based on an asset base that didn't exist, that would be a new can of worms that would probably bring down the company.

If there was fraud, the victims would have to bring a civil case to recover their losses. I would expect that to be against the perpetrators. ....ie those found guilty...but also the company.

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[Ozyhibby]

That would depend on the nature of the fraud, I reckon.

If it was, for example, based on an asset base that didn't exist, that would be a new can of worms that would probably bring down the company.

If there was fraud, the victims would have to bring a civil case to recover their losses. I would expect that to be against the perpetrators. ....ie those found guilty...but also the company.

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[emoji23]
Please,please,please.....


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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-importance-of-good-information/


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[Hibee87]

Who is Gordon Parks? :confused:

Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 (https://twitter.com/Parksy327) 29m29 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684336166557061121)
Huge story breaking at Ibrox in next hour...more to follow

Edit: Meant to say my mate send me this

[Moulin Yarns]

Who is Gordon Parks? :confused:

Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 (https://twitter.com/Parksy327) 29m29 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684336166557061121)
Huge story breaking at Ibrox in next hour...more to follow

Edit: Meant to say my mate send me this

Daily Record



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/authors/gordon-parks/

[JimBHibees]

Who is Gordon Parks? :confused:

Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 (https://twitter.com/Parksy327) 29m29 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684336166557061121)
Huge story breaking at Ibrox in next hour...more to follow

Edit: Meant to say my mate send me this

Record Journo. Warburton probably bought a new Magic hat at xmas and is modelling it on the back page. :greengrin

[Hibee87]

Daily Record



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/authors/gordon-parks/

I see, so prob someone with a bit of knowledge. I thought it was just a random dude.

Coincidentally, Ozy posted a link suggesting the 5m due to SD was going to be rejected, that might be the 'huge' news :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

Who is Gordon Parks? :confused:

Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 (https://twitter.com/Parksy327) 29m29 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684336166557061121)
Huge story breaking at Ibrox in next hour...more to follow

Edit: Meant to say my mate send me this

Looks like he's at the wind up.


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[Col2]

I could do with a 'Carslberg' day given how terrible being back at work is.

Please please please...

[Hibee87]

Looks like he's at the wind up.


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Aye, just seen that....Pwick

[Moulin Yarns]

Looks like he's at the wind up.


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Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 13m13 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684346166931275777) Sorry folks, that's the last time I leave laptop unguarded in office

[HoboHarry]

What is he doing?

Ok, I gotta it......

[Ozyhibby]

Gordon Parks ‏@Parksy327 13m13 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Parksy327/status/684346166931275777) Sorry folks, that's the last time I leave laptop unguarded in office

You can imagine the giggling in the Daily Record offices as they stick it right up Celtic fans.
Sad state of affairs for a newspaper.


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[Hibee87]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/684348928188399616)
Craig Whyte also accused of fraud against the SFA by not disclosing previous bar on being a company director during "fit and proper" test

Should that read, SFA don't conduct 'fit and proper' test correctly? Surly the SFA should also be checking this basic of things? :confused:

or is it a case of, hey mr new chairman, any reason why your not a fit and proper person?

Chairman: naw, im squeeky clean.

SFA: Passed.

[Bostonhibby]

What is he doing?

Ok, I gotta it......

School boy humour? showing his conkers to the lad next to him? gotta be better than pretending to be a journalist / breaking an actual story?

[JimBHibees]

Looks like he's at the wind up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree: Now saying he left his laptop unguarded. No doubt called into the Editors office and told not to run it. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Green is also accused of "defrauding" investors of Rangers International Football Club and "Sevco 5088 ltd"

Isn't the only other investor in 5088 Craig Whyte? Does this mean that Craig Whyte will have a claim on the assets? 5088 were the company who had the agreement with D&P to buy the assets.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Green is also accused of "defrauding" investors of Rangers International Football Club and "Sevco 5088 ltd"

Isn't the only other investor in 5088 Craig Whyte? Does this mean that Craig Whyte will have a claim on the assets? 5088 were the company who had the agreement with D&P to buy the assets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

... and Aidan Earley. Is he charged with anything?

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/pre-trial-hearing-brings-stark-focus-to-newco-future/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Summary of this mornings proceedings.
Try ignore the duplicate paragraphs in it.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Green is also accused of "defrauding" investors of Rangers International Football Club and "Sevco 5088 ltd"

Isn't the only other investor in 5088 Craig Whyte? Does this mean that Craig Whyte will have a claim on the assets? 5088 were the company who had the agreement with D&P to buy the assets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But there is the wider question about whether D&P had the right to sell to Sevco anyway, without offering the company or assets to the wider market. If that's also held to be fraud, CW is party to that; he couldn't have much of a claim.

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[Ozyhibby]

But there is the wider question about whether D&P had the right to sell to Sevco anyway, without offering the company or assets to the wider market. If that's also held to be fraud, CW is party to that; he couldn't have much of a claim.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

In that scenario, would BDO not have a claim on the assets on behalf of the old club?
With so many claims outstanding it's hard not to see this having an affect on the new club.


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[s.a.m]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/684373507166318592) Another part of the indictment states Charles Green paid £200k for right to buy RFC, Craig Whyte then refunded him £137,500 via Ahmed's mum.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/pre-trial-hearing-brings-stark-focus-to-newco-future/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Summary of this mornings proceedings.
Try ignore the duplicate paragraphs in it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sent that to a Celtc supporter at work and he came back with this....

Any thoughts on the second para?? CWG?


So much fun: “basket of assets”, “is now a football club” etc etc :)

Another conspiracy theory is that DK is planning on another asset transfer to a HK registered company and will liquidate the current entities which will remove Mike Ashley from the picture. This will also shaft most of the current shareholders as the “new” board can convert the current loans into equity as they see fit (but which they couldn’t do with the current set up because of MA and the Easdales) .

It’s amazing how a football club can be used to generate so much money for so many criminals over such a long period, although I guess it helps to have a gullible fan base who believe anything and are desperate to hold on to anything rangersish…..

[monktonharp]

But there is the wider question about whether D&P had the right to sell to Sevco anyway, without offering the company or assets to the wider market. If that's also held to be fraud, CW is party to that; he couldn't have much of a claim.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalkyou know more than most on here about how this stuff works, but wouldn't it be "simply the best" if CW ended up with a lion's share of any of this shambles? too much to hope for, I know but would be nice

[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-importance-of-good-information/


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What conditions? Presumably, a renegotiation of the original retail contract?

If SD won't accept repayment of the £5m, will King use it to keep the lights on this season?

[s.a.m]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1338047-rangers-fraud-case-charges-increased-from-eight-to-15-by-prosecutors/

[CropleyWasGod]

In that scenario, would BDO not have a claim on the assets on behalf of the old club?
With so many claims outstanding it's hard not to see this having an affect on the new club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, but then that's always been on the cards since the day Sevco bought the assets for £5.5m. If it hadn't have been a criminal case, it would have been a civil one brought by BDO.

[Ozyhibby]

https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/the-indictment-part-1/

Here is part one of today's indictment


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[CropleyWasGod]

I sent that to a Celtc supporter at work and he came back with this....

Any thoughts on the second para?? CWG?


So much fun: “basket of assets”, “is now a football club” etc etc :)

Another conspiracy theory is that DK is planning on another asset transfer to a HK registered company and will liquidate the current entities which will remove Mike Ashley from the picture. This will also shaft most of the current shareholders as the “new” board can convert the current loans into equity as they see fit (but which they couldn’t do with the current set up because of MA and the Easdales) .

It’s amazing how a football club can be used to generate so much money for so many criminals over such a long period, although I guess it helps to have a gullible fan base who believe anything and are desperate to hold on to anything rangersish…..



JJ posited that the other day. I queried it, and he (perhaps wilfully) got the wrong end of the stick.

First off, I'm not sure DK could do that without greater shareholder support than he already has.

More importantly, the issue I have is that the assets would be sold for £1. HMRC would not like that, given that that would be less than market value, to a connected company. They would aggressively pursue the old company for the tax that should have been due. That would result in a liquidator being appointed, and a similar scenario to that currently being experienced by the old version of rangers.

There's also the small matter of whether the SFA licence could be transferred.

And many others on JJ's site have picked other holes in the scenario.

[portycabbage]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/684348928188399616)
Craig Whyte also accused of fraud against the SFA by not disclosing previous bar on being a company director during "fit and proper" test

Should that read, SFA don't conduct 'fit and proper' test correctly? Surly the SFA should also be checking this basic of things? :confused:

or is it a case of, hey mr new chairman, any reason why your not a fit and proper person?

Chairman: naw, im squeeky clean.

SFA: Passed.

I'm sure I remember reading (probably on here) about CW's bar on being a director within about 30 seconds of the first mention of his name. Maybe the SFA should have googled his name or something.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm sure I remember reading (probably on here) about CW's bar on being a director within about 30 seconds of the first mention of his name. Maybe the SFA should have googled his name or something.

Was thinking this might be an interesting wee precedent for any Judge considering Ashleys review of the test that was applied when the glib and shameless one was deemed fit and proper.

Might it go something like - what is the process that you actually go through before coming to a decision on whether someone is fit and proper and how did you apply it in the case of CW? Or any of the others for that matter.

Nae wonder the original club is now defunct.

[Ozyhibby]

Here is a summary of the charges that was posted on SFM
----------

I’m unable to discuss any matters discussed in court today but here is a summary of the updated indictment, which is a public document.
CW – Whyte, GW – Withey, DG – Grier, DW – Whitehouse, PC – Paul Clark, CG – Green, IA Ahmad
Substance of the charges:
1. CW, GW, DG, DW, PC conspired to obtain funds by fraud from Jerome, Merchant and Ticketus to fund the fraudulent purchase of the club (offence was aggravated)
• CW & GW obtained £2,825,000 by fraud from the trustees of the Jerome Pension Fund
• CW & GW obtained £1,000,00 by fraud from Merchant Turnaround PLC
• CW, GW & DG made false representations to Rangers Independent committee about the funding of the purchase
• CW & GW obtained £24,337,094 by fraud from Ticketus
• CW & GW made false representations to the Takeover panel re the funding
• CW failed to disclose a disqualification as a director
• CW & GW made false representation to the PLUS stock exchange re CW’s disqualification
• CW, GW & DG made false representations to Murray Holdings Ltd re funding of the purchase and the future funding of the club including the wee tax case (£2,800,000) and an H&S liability (£1,700,000)
2. CW & GW contravened the proceeds of crime act using the £28,262,094 obtained by fraud when purchasing the club
3. DG, DW & PC failed to report suspicions of Money Laundering by CW & GW using “Financial Assistance” to purchase the club, contrary to the proceeds of crime act
4. CW, GW, DG, DW, PC did conspire together to act as in Charge 1
5. CW & GW breached the Companies Act by using the clubs own money to fund the acquisition (Financial Assistance”
6. CW & GW committed fraud by failing to disclose CW’s disqualification to the SFA
7. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £253,800 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
8. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £409,320 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
9. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £66,120 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
10. CW, GW, DG, DW & PC conspired to defraud creditors, including non-payment of taxes and while they ran the club in order to facilitate CW in buying back the club debt free, which was in breach of the Companies Act
11. DW & PC perverted the course of justice when stating to Lord Hodge that they were unaware of the Ticketus arrangements
12. CW, GW, DW, PC, CG & IA conspired to defraud creditors by purchasing the club’s business and assets significantly below market value.
• CW, DW & PC sought to put the club in administration• Caused the court to appoint DW & PC as administrators
• DW & PC falsely pretended to act in the interests of all creditors
• CG falsely presented himself as an independent purchaser
• DW & PC pretended that the purpose of administration was to get the best return for creditors
• CW acquired Sevco 5088 of which CG was appointed director• CG received £25,000 from CW to pay legal fees related to Sevco 5088
• CG paid the legal fees with the £25,000
• IA paid the administrators DW & PC £200,000 as an exclusivity fee
• DW & PC granted Sevco 5088 exclusivity to the exclusion of other prospective purchasers
• CW paid £137,000 into IA’s mother’s account as part payment of the exclusivity fee
• DW & PC completed a sale and purchase agreement with CG on behalf of both Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland for a price of £5,500,000, significantly below market value.
• DW & PC falsely advised creditors that SPL prize money was reflected in the consideration paid for the assets, but the sale and purchase agreement reflected a “nil” consideration
• Permitted the transfer of £291,823.10 from Rangers Youth Development to help fund the purchase of assets
13. CW, GW, DW, PC, CG & IA participated in a conspiracy to purchase the business and assets of the club depriving creditors of the rightful sums due to them and the material benefit going to themselves
14. CW and IA defrauded investors in Sevco 5088 and RIFC, acquiring money and shares by fraud and to increase the value of their shares in RIFC
• CW pretended he had no interest in Sevco 5088• Induced investors to put £5,500,000 into Sevco 5088
• CG caused the change of exclusivity from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland without proper approval
• CG did appropriate the £5,500,000 invested in Sevco 5088 by fraud without the investors knowledge or agreement
• CG & IA allotted themselves 2,000,000 shares
• CG & IA changed the name of Sevco Scotland to The Rangers Football Club
• CG & IA appointed Cenkos as a nomad but failed to advise them of the source of funding through Sevco 5088
• CG & IA thereby raised £21,000,000 in the IPO by fraud
15. CW failed to provide police with mobile phone and laptop passwords, when requested, in breach of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act by police contrary to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act
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[Moulin Yarns]

Thanks for the summary Oz. What is the long version? 😉

[Bostonhibby]

Here is a summary of the charges that was posted on SFM
----------

I’m unable to discuss any matters discussed in court today but here is a summary of the updated indictment, which is a public document.
CW – Whyte, GW – Withey, DG – Grier, DW – Whitehouse, PC – Paul Clark, CG – Green, IA Ahmad
Substance of the charges:
1. CW, GW, DG, DW, PC conspired to obtain funds by fraud from Jerome, Merchant and Ticketus to fund the fraudulent purchase of the club (offence was aggravated)
• CW & GW obtained £2,825,000 by fraud from the trustees of the Jerome Pension Fund
• CW & GW obtained £1,000,00 by fraud from Merchant Turnaround PLC
• CW, GW & DG made false representations to Rangers Independent committee about the funding of the purchase
• CW & GW obtained £24,337,094 by fraud from Ticketus
• CW & GW made false representations to the Takeover panel re the funding
• CW failed to disclose a disqualification as a director
• CW & GW made false representation to the PLUS stock exchange re CW’s disqualification
• CW, GW & DG made false representations to Murray Holdings Ltd re funding of the purchase and the future funding of the club including the wee tax case (£2,800,000) and an H&S liability (£1,700,000)
2. CW & GW contravened the proceeds of crime act using the £28,262,094 obtained by fraud when purchasing the club
3. DG, DW & PC failed to report suspicions of Money Laundering by CW & GW using “Financial Assistance” to purchase the club, contrary to the proceeds of crime act
4. CW, GW, DG, DW, PC did conspire together to act as in Charge 1
5. CW & GW breached the Companies Act by using the clubs own money to fund the acquisition (Financial Assistance”
6. CW & GW committed fraud by failing to disclose CW’s disqualification to the SFA
7. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £253,800 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
8. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £409,320 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
9. CW & DG committed fraud by falsely submitting invoices for £66,120 to Rangers which should have been submitted to Liberty Capital.
10. CW, GW, DG, DW & PC conspired to defraud creditors, including non-payment of taxes and while they ran the club in order to facilitate CW in buying back the club debt free, which was in breach of the Companies Act
11. DW & PC perverted the course of justice when stating to Lord Hodge that they were unaware of the Ticketus arrangements
12. CW, GW, DW, PC, CG & IA conspired to defraud creditors by purchasing the club’s business and assets significantly below market value.
• CW, DW & PC sought to put the club in administration• Caused the court to appoint DW & PC as administrators
• DW & PC falsely pretended to act in the interests of all creditors
• CG falsely presented himself as an independent purchaser
• DW & PC pretended that the purpose of administration was to get the best return for creditors
• CW acquired Sevco 5088 of which CG was appointed director• CG received £25,000 from CW to pay legal fees related to Sevco 5088
• CG paid the legal fees with the £25,000
• IA paid the administrators DW & PC £200,000 as an exclusivity fee
• DW & PC granted Sevco 5088 exclusivity to the exclusion of other prospective purchasers
• CW paid £137,000 into IA’s mother’s account as part payment of the exclusivity fee
• DW & PC completed a sale and purchase agreement with CG on behalf of both Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland for a price of £5,500,000, significantly below market value.
• DW & PC falsely advised creditors that SPL prize money was reflected in the consideration paid for the assets, but the sale and purchase agreement reflected a “nil” consideration
• Permitted the transfer of £291,823.10 from Rangers Youth Development to help fund the purchase of assets
13. CW, GW, DW, PC, CG & IA participated in a conspiracy to purchase the business and assets of the club depriving creditors of the rightful sums due to them and the material benefit going to themselves
14. CW and IA defrauded investors in Sevco 5088 and RIFC, acquiring money and shares by fraud and to increase the value of their shares in RIFC
• CW pretended he had no interest in Sevco 5088• Induced investors to put £5,500,000 into Sevco 5088
• CG caused the change of exclusivity from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland without proper approval
• CG did appropriate the £5,500,000 invested in Sevco 5088 by fraud without the investors knowledge or agreement
• CG & IA allotted themselves 2,000,000 shares
• CG & IA changed the name of Sevco Scotland to The Rangers Football Club
• CG & IA appointed Cenkos as a nomad but failed to advise them of the source of funding through Sevco 5088
• CG & IA thereby raised £21,000,000 in the IPO by fraud
15. CW failed to provide police with mobile phone and laptop passwords, when requested, in breach of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act by police contrary to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act
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Jeez, so that's why Walter Smith left. He obviously saw all this coming.

This is what Bomber Brown was trying to tell everyone but we mocked him.

[Ozyhibby]

Having a look at the list of charges, there are some where the new club would appear the victim and some where they are they beneficiary of the crime.
If 13 is a guilty verdict, do BDO take back the assets?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Having a look at the list of charges, there are some where the new club would appear the victim and some where they are they beneficiary of the crime.
If 13 is a guilty verdict, do BDO take back the assets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily . They could sue the perps, and D&P's insurance could pay out.

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[truehibernian]

Not necessarily . They could sue the perps, and D&P's insurance could pay out.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

I still think Ashley is licking the brandy butter off his fingers and just waiting for his moment CWG

[Devonhibs]

The problem with these type of cases is that most juries get confused and often can't see the wood for the trees once their five barristers start defending them and mudding the water.

Its hard to get convictions in complicated fraud matters that why the Serious Fraud Office in london dealing with the City has a poor conviction rate.

[Moulin Yarns]

JJ posited that the other day. I queried it, and he (perhaps wilfully) got the wrong end of the stick.

First off, I'm not sure DK could do that without greater shareholder support than he already has.

More importantly, the issue I have is that the assets would be sold for £1. HMRC would not like that, given that that would be less than market value, to a connected company. They would aggressively pursue the old company for the tax that should have been due. That would result in a liquidator being appointed, and a similar scenario to that currently being experienced by the old version of rangers.

There's also the small matter of whether the SFA licence could be transferred.

And many others on JJ's site have picked other holes in the scenario.

Thanks CWG. I didn't think it made sense. Ignoring the SFA licence, we all know how that would go :wink: I wasn't sure who would benefit from a liquidation.

[jacomo]

The problem with these type of cases is that most juries get confused and often can't see the wood for the trees once their five barristers start defending them and mudding the water.

Its hard to get convictions in complicated fraud matters that why the Serious Fraud Office in london dealing with the City has a poor conviction rate.

True, although this case involves a high profile football club, so I expect in depth analysis from the MSM to help us lay people make sense of it all.

Can't wait.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks CWG. I didn't think it made sense. Ignoring the SFA licence, we all know how that would go :wink: I wasn't sure who would benefit from a liquidation.
Hibs? [emoji48]

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[ballengeich]

True, although this case involves a high profile football club, so I expect in depth analysis from the MSM to help us lay people make sense of it all.

Can't wait.
I've no doubt that diversion of staff to this in depth analysis explains why the Scotsman hasn't reported that the case was in court yesterday.

[Ozyhibby]

I've no doubt that diversion of staff to this in depth analysis explains why the Scotsman hasn't reported that the case was in court yesterday.

I've stopped buying them. Makes you wonder what else gets hidden from view.


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[MrSmith]

Haven't bought a newspaper in years as our MSM is atrocious to say the least!

There is more open, honest, impartial and factual information available on the internet as we all know :)

[ancient hibee]

The problem with these type of cases is that most juries get confused and often can't see the wood for the trees once their five barristers start defending them and mudding the water.

Its hard to get convictions in complicated fraud matters that why the Serious Fraud Office in london dealing with the City has a poor conviction rate.

Both sides of the "great divide " will be on the jury and will find them guilty for different reasons.

[Seveno]

Does this confirm that Green stole the club from Whyte by the change from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland ?

[Ozyhibby]

Does this confirm that Green stole the club from Whyte by the change from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland ?

Doesn't confirm it but Police Scotland think so.


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[Seveno]

Doesn't confirm it but Police Scotland think so.


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Does the Proceeds of Crime Act apply if you steal the Proceeds of Crime from a criminal? :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Whichever way the court case goes, this is going to postpone any new Hun share issue for years. :thumbsup:

[Jim44]

Whichever way the court case goes, this is going to postpone any new Hun share issue for years. :thumbsup:

So only soft loans for the foreseeable future then? Three cheers for these kind Hunanthropists. Booooooooooo......

[CropleyWasGod]

Does this confirm that Green stole the club from Whyte by the change from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland ?
Long way to go before we can say that.

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[Greenworld]

When does it all kick off for real

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[Deansy]

All theses pages, all these charges/accusations/offences etc and I'm still waiting on SDM to get a mention ??

[CropleyWasGod]

All theses pages, all these charges/accusations/offences etc and I'm still waiting on SDM to get a mention ??
If you mean Hibs.net, you haven't been reading properly :)

I, and many others, have referred to him often. I said just the other day that his evidence about the Ticketus fraud will be "interesting ".



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[Smartie]

All theses pages, all these charges/accusations/offences etc and I'm still waiting on SDM to get a mention ??

It always amazes me how lightly he gets off in the eyes of "the hordes".

He was the architect of their demise. He designed every aspect of it, set it up to go pop then got a patsy in (Whyte) for them all to blame when it happened. I read an article a while back that made a good case for Whyte actually being the good guy in the eyes of the Rangers fans - if he hadn't used the tax as working capital then they might have been liquidated mid-season which would have been far harder for them to re-emerge from. Doing this he kept a busted flush going until the summer and managed to keep a club alive (or undead might be more accurate).

I don't think they can/will move on as a club until the fans realise that SDM was the figure to blame more than anyone. Yes they've had a succession of crooks and misfits since then but that's what you get when you carry on the way they did for so long that the club is untouchable by anyone with any integrity/ common sense/ intelligence/ clean money.

Only when they distance themselves from the idiotic grandeur of his era will they be able to progress as a club again.

Which is nice because I don't see it happening any time soon.

[ACLeith]

If you mean Hibs.net, you haven't been reading properly :)

I, and many others, have referred to him often. I said just the other day that his evidence about the Ticketus fraud will be "interesting ".



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I often think that "Interesting" is an interesting word to use :greengrin. He claimed he had been "duped" by CW, I don't believe a word of that. He was desperate to dump the club and would probably have sold to anyone, maybe regardless of any advice as to the financial/moral strength of said "anyone"?

I can't see those in the dock protecting SDM's skin if it would benefit them, SDM might well be panicking as to any "smoking guns" that will come out?

[Hibeesforever]

I often think that "Interesting" is an interesting word to use :greengrin. He claimed he had been "duped" by CW, I don't believe a word of that. He was desperate to dump the club and would probably have sold to anyone, maybe regardless of any advice as to the financial/moral strength of said "anyone"?

I can't see those in the dock protecting SDM's skin if it would benefit them, SDM might well be panicking as to any "smoking guns" that will come out?

Exactly and money laundering laws will be of interest to the only party that had their debts paid in full. Lloyds due diligence was also asleep at the wheel and they were in the board room of SDM's sinking ship by then too. Lloyds will likely also be called.

[weecounty hibby]

A hun at my work assures me that they are in a better financial state now than at anytime in the last 25 years. Reckons that there are investors just queing up to hand over their cash. They are the most gullible, delude bunch I have ever come across

[CropleyWasGod]

I often think that "Interesting" is an interesting word to use :greengrin. He claimed he had been "duped" by CW, I don't believe a word of that. He was desperate to dump the club and would probably have sold to anyone, maybe regardless of any advice as to the financial/moral strength of said "anyone"?

I can't see those in the dock protecting SDM's skin if it would benefit them, SDM might well be panicking as to any "smoking guns" that will come out?
I said it at the time the Ticketus story broke. I can't believe that an experienced businessman like SDM wouldn't have at least suspected what CW was up to. Whether he was party to it is a different story. .....like you say, the defendants' lawyers will not baulk at suggesting it, though.

Yeah, that's interesting [emoji6]

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[doddsy]

I said it at the time the Ticketus story broke. I can't believe that an experienced businessman like SDM wouldn't have at least suspected what CW was up to. Whether he was party to it is a different story. .....like you say, the defendants' lawyers will not baulk at suggesting it, though.

Yeah, that's interesting [emoji6]

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There are so many guilty people complicit in this tale of immorality, greed, cover up, duplicity and all the other shocking events which indeed did begin with SDM's spending other peoples money like water. Amongst the guilty are the Scottish Media who masquerade as 'Journalists' and have hidden the truth along with the SFA. How on earth are Doncaster and Regan still in a job at the SFA when all this criminality was taken place under their noses and they were embarking on the now humiliated joke 5 way agreement to hide what was really going on.

Scotland could be a great country but there are far too many corrupt people working at the top level in every field. Just horrible.

[Greenworld]

It always amazes me how lightly he gets off in the eyes of "the hordes".

He was the architect of their demise. He designed every aspect of it, set it up to go pop then got a patsy in (Whyte) for them all to blame when it happened. I read an article a while back that made a good case for Whyte actually being the good guy in the eyes of the Rangers fans - if he hadn't used the tax as working capital then they might have been liquidated mid-season which would have been far harder for them to re-emerge from. Doing this he kept a busted flush going until the summer and managed to keep a club alive (or undead might be more accurate).

I don't think they can/will move on as a club until the fans realise that SDM was the figure to blame more than anyone. Yes they've had a succession of crooks and misfits since then but that's what you get when you carry on the way they did for so long that the club is untouchable by anyone with any integrity/ common sense/ intelligence/ clean money.

Only when they distance themselves from the idiotic grandeur of his era will they be able to progress as a club again.

Which is nice because I don't see it happening any time soon.
The big difference is SDM operated within the law. He may of done things that looked dodgy but not against the Law.
Their is the single biggest difference. I would wager you will not see SDM involved in this at all.

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[doddsy]

SDM would argue that oldco Rangers were only worth a £1 at the time of selling to CW due to the BTC which ended his involvement. The vast majority of people would probably reach the view that he must have known that CW had a long history of forcing companies into firstly administration then liquidation as even just a cursory background check of CW would have shown. CW was a neccesity for SDM which later led to the corrupt 5 way agreement which paved the way for the argument that newco was still oldco and so forth. It was well planned with the co-operation of many including Judges, SFA, Scottish Media etc who wanted people to believe that oldco and newco were one and the same. We now know that Sevco 5088 bought the assets and later renamed a new company TIRFC which should dispel any notion of oldco and newco being the same but there are plenty out there who will wash over any notion of what is the truth.

I am sure if oldco Rangers had died in a dignified manner and the newco Rangers had risen to the fore again without all the joke antics of pretending to still be oldco/newco, the fans of all other clubs would have admired them for it and not been so angry at being taken for a bunch of stupid mugs who'll believe anything by the SFA and others. Others in particular being for me the Scottish Media who I suspect have lost the respect of a vast number of people who now get the truth from other grassroot fans who bravely speak out on the internet at the cost of being trolled and abused by people who are happy at the truth being quashed. Also I am sure there are many good and honest Rangers fans who would have welcomed the fresh start instead of the shenanigans of oldco/newco.

[CropleyWasGod]

The big difference is SDM operated within the law. He may of done things that looked dodgy but not against the Law.
Their is the single biggest difference. I would wager you will not see SDM involved in this at all.

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He'll be called as a witness in the CW case, Shirley?

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[Greenworld]

He'll be called as a witness in the CW case, Shirley?

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That may well be true but I would expect all documentation to have already been shown to our pc ...plod... they have visited his office several times at charlotte square it may not be deemed necessary ...

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[CentreLine]

SDM would argue that oldco Rangers were only worth a £1 at the time of selling to CW due to the BTC which ended his involvement. The vast majority of people would probably reach the view that he must have known that CW had a long history of forcing companies into firstly administration then liquidation as even just a cursory background check of CW would have shown. CW was a neccesity for SDM which later led to the corrupt 5 way agreement which paved the way for the argument that newco was still oldco and so forth. It was well planned with the co-operation of many including Judges, SFA, Scottish Media etc who wanted people to believe that oldco and newco were one and the same. We now know that Sevco 5088 bought the assets and later renamed a new company TIRFC which should dispel any notion of oldco and newco being the same but there are plenty out there who will wash over any notion of what is the truth.

I am sure if oldco Rangers had died in a dignified manner and the newco Rangers had risen to the fore again without all the joke antics of pretending to still be oldco/newco, the fans of all other clubs would have admired them for it and not been so angry at being taken for a bunch of stupid mugs who'll believe anything by the SFA and others. Others in particular being for me the Scottish Media who I suspect have lost the respect of a vast number of people who now get the truth from other grassroot fans who bravely speak out on the internet at the cost of being trolled and abused by people who are happy at the truth being quashed. Also I am sure there are many good and honest Rangers fans who would have welcomed the fresh start instead of the shenanigans of oldco/newco.

In a nutshell :aok:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

SDM would argue that oldco Rangers were only worth a £1 at the time of selling to CW due to the BTC which ended his involvement. The vast majority of people would probably reach the view that he must have known that CW had a long history of forcing companies into firstly administration then liquidation as even just a cursory background check of CW would have shown. CW was a neccesity for SDM which later led to the corrupt 5 way agreement which paved the way for the argument that newco was still oldco and so forth. It was well planned with the co-operation of many including Judges, SFA, Scottish Media etc who wanted people to believe that oldco and newco were one and the same. We now know that Sevco 5088 bought the assets and later renamed a new company TIRFC which should dispel any notion of oldco and newco being the same but there are plenty out there who will wash over any notion of what is the truth.

I am sure if oldco Rangers had died in a dignified manner and the newco Rangers had risen to the fore again without all the joke antics of pretending to still be oldco/newco, the fans of all other clubs would have admired them for it and not been so angry at being taken for a bunch of stupid mugs who'll believe anything by the SFA and others. Others in particular being for me the Scottish Media who I suspect have lost the respect of a vast number of people who now get the truth from other grassroot fans who bravely speak out on the internet at the cost of being trolled and abused by people who are happy at the truth being quashed. Also I am sure there are many good and honest Rangers fans who would have welcomed the fresh start instead of the shenanigans of oldco/newco.

This should be circulated worldwide.

[Hibs Class]

The big difference is SDM operated within the law. He may of done things that looked dodgy but not against the Law.
Their is the single biggest difference. I would wager you will not see SDM involved in this at all.

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Was the non-disclosure of contract info to the SFA not done under SDM? Not against the law, but it was the activity which was against football regulations and which should lead to title-stripping, which is obviously one of the horde's biggest fears.

[TrinityHibs]

I said it at the time the Ticketus story broke. I can't believe that an experienced businessman like SDM wouldn't have at least suspected what CW was up to. Whether he was party to it is a different story. .....like you say, the defendants' lawyers will not baulk at suggesting it, though.

Yeah, that's interesting [emoji6]

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Maybe someone should ask the question Who suggested to Whyte that he could use the season ticket money to fund the takeover? That might be interesting

[CropleyWasGod]

That may well be true but I would expect all documentation to have already been shown to our pc ...plod... they have visited his office several times at charlotte square it may not be deemed necessary ...

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That's the prosecution side, though. CW's defence will see it through a different lens.

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[Ozyhibby]

Rangers First (their equivalent of HSL but without a share purchase agreement) are to have a vote on whether to give the club an interest free unsecured loan of £500,000.



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[Bostonhibby]

Rangers First (their equivalent of HSL but without a share purchase agreement) are to have a vote on whether to give the club an interest free unsecured loan of £500,000.



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At first glance this reads like a not to be missed opportunity to hand over a wedge of cash in return for fresh air in the same way the yam gave Vlad the money that went east in a suitcase when he was telling them all about share options.

[Greenworld]

That's the prosecution side, though. CW's defence will see it through a different lens.

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Thats very true or they wish to steer clear of someone who could maybe blow whatever defensive line they choose to go down.
I cant wait till it all kicks off

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[Moulin Yarns]

Thats very true or they wish to steer clear of someone who could maybe blow whatever defensive line they choose to go down.
I cant wait till it all kicks off

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I might have missed it, but when do all those indictments actually come to court?

[Greenworld]

Rangers First (their equivalent of HSL but without a share purchase agreement) are to have a vote on whether to give the club an interest free unsecured loan of £500,000.



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Sounds desperate stuff I like it

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[CropleyWasGod]

At first glance this reads like a not to be missed opportunity to hand over a wedge of cash in return for fresh air in the same way the yam gave Vlad the money that went east in a suitcase when he was telling them all about share options.
On the other hand. ....and this is the way it will be sold....it could keep the lights on until ST sales kick in.

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[Bostonhibby]

On the other hand. ....and this is the way it will be sold....it could keep the lights on until ST sales kick in.

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Think you are right but the cynics might say that why would they need to pretend to have a share issue to con the orcs out of such a small sum when the owner has "off the radar wealth" to "over invest":faf:

[Ozyhibby]

Think you are right but the cynics might say that why would they need to pretend to have a share issue to con the orcs out of such a small sum when the owner has "off the radar wealth" to "over invest":faf:

They are not even kidding on its a share issue. It's a straight handover of cash.
I can understand why they are doing it but they should be asking for something in return. A seat on the board maybe.


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[Bostonhibby]

They are not even kidding on its a share issue. It's a straight handover of cash.
I can understand why they are doing it but they should be asking for something in return. A seat on the board maybe.


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:agree: given what might have been the fans original aspiration it looks like they are being asked to fill a hole because the owner & board either can't or won't. Where's that nice Mike Ashley when they need him?

[MrSmith]

Think you are right but the cynics might say that why would they need to pretend to have a share issue to con the orcs out of such a small sum when the owner has "off the radar wealth" to "over invest":faf:

you know the comment in bold should come back to haunt that rag and their pal fat boab! They should be up on charges as well as they were knowingly conspiring to defraud Rangers fans! Complicit in all the fraudulent activities done by old, old and newco from 1999!

[Bostonhibby]

you know the comment in bold should come back to haunt that rag and their pal fat boab! They should be up on charges as well as they were knowingly conspiring to defraud Rangers fans! Complicit in all the fraudulent activities done by old, old and newco from 1999!

:agree: especially as there are fans of the rangers who do believe what their media tells them. No a bad way to plant an idea in their tiny wee brains and get to blame someone else when it all goes pear shaped.

[Brunswickbill]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/07/transfer-lies-rf-gifts/

[Smartie]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/07/transfer-lies-rf-gifts/

I must admit he made me laugh out loud when he referred to "The Minister of Pishery, Mangetout Traynor at Level 5".

[Deansy]

If you mean Hibs.net, you haven't been reading properly :)

I, and many others, have referred to him often. I said just the other day that his evidence about the Ticketus fraud will be "interesting ".



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Oh I know he's been mentioned on here, CWG, I was merely asking a general question WHY it hasn't appeared in the SMSM ........ (Yeah, I know !!) but seriously, now it's all fast approaching the court where (please, don't laugh again !!) allegedly, the TRUTH is meant to come out, his name STILL doesn't appear anywhere ??. Obviously I know the SMSM have no intention of mentioning him but can a judge ?. Is there any chance a judge (at any of these various trials) can stand up and say - 'Mr Murray, the catalyst for ALL of this, knighted for services to business, expects us to accept his 'I was duped' excuse - I DON'T - do not insult my intelligence like others have had theirs !!'

[jacomo]

Rangers First (their equivalent of HSL but without a share purchase agreement) are to have a vote on whether to give the club an interest free unsecured loan of £500,000.



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You've got to hand it to DK.

First he's on the board of Oldco when they pursue an EBT scheme that ultimately brings down the company.

He then criticises Newco for being cheap.

He then promises 'over-investment' if he's in charge and pushes a genuine billionaire out of the way.

He promises the highest standards of transparency.

He then puts in no cash and no transparency.

He angrily refuses to accept any challenge to their 'history', despite accepting previously that said EBT scheme probably did give Oldco an unfair advantage.

Despite all this, the fans are now considering sending him a £500k 'loan' - money which will never be seen again.

Incredible, really.

[brog]

I might have missed it, but when do all those indictments actually come to court?

I think next hearing is in a couple of weeks in Aberdeen.

[Killiehibbie]

I think next hearing is in a couple of weeks in Aberdeen.Would be nice to see them get a jury of Aberdeen fans.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think next hearing is in a couple of weeks in Aberdeen.

The away leg.

[Ozyhibby]

It looks like Rangers First have only given their members 3 days to vote on whether to change their rules and lend the £500k to the club.
I wonder what the hurry is?


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[GreenLake]

3 Days of Condorc

[seanshow]

It looks like Rangers First have only given their members 3 days to vote on whether to change their rules and lend the £500k to the club.
I wonder what the hurry is?


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Maybe trying to fund the purchase of another player
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/6846549/Brentford-throw-out-100k-Rangers-bid-for-Toumani-Diagouraga.html

offered 100k for a 3/4M rated player, where have we heard that before :rolleyes:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Rangers have turned down the offer of the £500k loan but say they may take it up in the future

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers have turned down the offer of the £500k loan but say they may take it up in the future

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-statement-3/

That's a strange one. I wonder if the club were expecting there to be conditions attached to any offer, that they couldn't commit to.

[brog]

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-statement-3/

That's a strange one. I wonder if the club were expecting there to be conditions attached to any offer, that they couldn't commit to.

I think the answer's in the last line where they talk about Glib & Shameless committing to match the £500k loan! By including that comment in the statement they effectively answer a question that hasn't been asked! That always makes me suspicious!

[Ozyhibby]

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-statement-3/

That's a strange one. I wonder if the club were expecting there to be conditions attached to any offer, that they couldn't commit to.

From what I can make out from Twitter chat and their message boards, the majority of Rangers First members had been voting against it all day. Not enough info given and only 3 days to make decision had spooked them.


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[CropleyWasGod]

From what I can make out from Twitter chat and their message boards, the majority of Rangers First members had been voting against it all day. Not enough info given and only 3 days to make decision had spooked them.


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In other words, didn't want to lose face by RF refusing to fund them.

[Ozyhibby]

In other words, didn't want to lose face by RF refusing to fund them.

Could be. It's all a bit strange. I find it hard to believe that Rangers First would not have consulted the club in advance with their plans.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Could be. It's all a bit strange. I find it hard to believe that Rangers First would not have consulted the club in advance with their plans.


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Maybe they did, and demanded that DK match their half mill. Maybe that's where the Record got their story from.

If that is the case, RF have just called DK's bluff about having money.

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/07/4a923727660282a0bb52c3d3c2ef224e.jpg
Sent today by the guy who runs Rangers First.


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[Greenworld]

I think next hearing is in a couple of weeks in Aberdeen.
I just checked it is in Aberdeen in two weeks then another one in Edinburgh in February not sure why Aberdeen a bit strange...

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[Bostonhibby]

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 15m15 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/685209800389570564) It appears assurances given to members of Rangers First that Dave King would match their funding werevincorrect. http://rng.rs/1VNlkEF (https://t.co/QWVEbIQRDV)


(https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/685209800389570564)

Meantime, in news elsewhere the Pope remains a catholic.

[Hibrandenburg]

It always amazes me how lightly he gets off in the eyes of "the hordes".

He was the architect of their demise. He designed every aspect of it, set it up to go pop then got a patsy in (Whyte) for them all to blame when it happened. I read an article a while back that made a good case for Whyte actually being the good guy in the eyes of the Rangers fans - if he hadn't used the tax as working capital then they might have been liquidated mid-season which would have been far harder for them to re-emerge from. Doing this he kept a busted flush going until the summer and managed to keep a club alive (or undead might be more accurate).

I don't think they can/will move on as a club until the fans realise that SDM was the figure to blame more than anyone. Yes they've had a succession of crooks and misfits since then but that's what you get when you carry on the way they did for so long that the club is untouchable by anyone with any integrity/ common sense/ intelligence/ clean money.

Only when they distance themselves from the idiotic grandeur of his era will they be able to progress as a club again.

Which is nice because I don't see it happening any time soon.

I think that the Rangers fans will probably consider the relationship with SDM as similar to the way I remember my time with a former German hooker, it was a roller-coaster ride to hell and back but **** was the sex good. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Maybe they did, and demanded that DK match their half mill. Maybe that's where the Record got their story from.

If that is the case, RF have just called DK's bluff about having money.

That statement doesn't rule out Sevco taking the cash.

It just rules out DK matching it. And says that Sevco didn't ask RF for a loan.

[CropleyWasGod]

That statement doesn't rule out Sevco taking the cash.

It just rules out DK matching it. And says that Sevco didn't ask RF for a loan.
So who do we believe?

The blue one in the white hat, or the blue one in the black hat? :)

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[PatHead]

That statement doesn't rule out Sevco taking the cash.

It just rules out DK matching it. And says that Sevco didn't ask RF for a loan.

They did however say they needed money to see out the season. Agree it doesn't rule out them taking the cash at a later date. Maybe they didn't want to upset other groups.

[Forthview]

I just checked it is in Aberdeen in two weeks then another one in Edinburgh in February not sure why Aberdeen a bit strange...

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Only Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen have a High Court.

[monktonharp]

I just checked it is in Aberdeen in two weeks then another one in Edinburgh in February not sure why Aberdeen a bit strange...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk2 neutral High Court venues, possibly switching because of a lot of sheep molesting cases coming up.

[MoscowHibs]

Only Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen have a High Court.


The High Court of Justiciary is Scotland's supreme criminal court. When sitting at first instance as a trial court, it hears the most serious criminal cases, such as murder and rape. A single judge hears cases with a jury of 15 people.
At first instance, it sits in cities and larger towns around Scotland and has a permanent base in Edinburgh (Lawnmarket) (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/edinburgh-high-court), Glasgow (Saltmarket) (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/glasgow-high-court) and Aberdeen (Mercatgate) (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/aberdeen-sheriff-court-annex-and-high-court-of-justiciary). There are periodic sittings in eight circuit courts Dundee (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/dundee-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), Dunfermline (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/dunfermline-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), Dumbarton (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/dumbarton-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), Inverness (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/inverness-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court),Kilmarnock (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/kilmarnock-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), Livingston (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/livingston-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), Paisley (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/paisley-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court) and Perth (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/perth-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court), and regular sittings at Edinburgh Sheriff Court (https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/the-courts/court-locations/edinburgh-sheriff-court-and-justice-of-the-peace-court). As an appeal court, it sits only in Edinburgh.

[brog]

I just checked it is in Aberdeen in two weeks then another one in Edinburgh in February not sure why Aberdeen a bit strange...

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Maybe away sentences count double!

[GreenOnions]

So who do we believe?

The blue one in the white hat, or the blue one in the black hat? :)

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I know Ricki Neill personally. He's a really good guy. IMO there's no way he'd be anything but honest about this.

[PatHead]

Now which one do I believe re values?


Rangers hope to sign 28-year-old French midfielder Toumani Diagouraga from Brentford on Friday in a transfer worth £500,000 after already having two offers rejected by Ibrox manager Mark Warburton's former club. (Daily Record) (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-hope-land-brentford-midfielder-7137018)


or



Rangers have been told to increase their offer for Brentford midfielder Toumani Diagouraga after a £100,000 bid was dismissed by the English Championship club. (Daily Mail) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3389647/Rangers-manager-Mark-Warburton-increase-offer-Brentford-star-Toumani-Diagouraga-100-000-bid-rejected.html#ixzz3wdN2j39y)

both from BBC website

[Ozyhibby]

A bit of discord at Rangers First?

---------------

Copy of my letter sent to James Blair today -

Mr Blair,

Further to our telephone discussion today I need to have the contents of this e mail recorded and I will be making it public to the Rangers Supporters.

I am requesting that Rangers First put on HOLD with immediate effect the offer to loan Rangers International Football Club £500,000.This is nothing to do with not wishing to assisting the club I love.

This request is 100% to question and challenge the diligence,lack of process and lack of detail and transparency given to the hard working Rangers supporters that put the money in the Rangers First account expecting it to be used to buy Shares.
I want to point out to you that as a member of Rangers First I request a full open Meeting to discuss implications of this loan in full and it is paramount that all Rangers First members be allowed to ask as many questions relating to this loan in as much detail as required to allow ALL to make a clear informed decision on what is best for Rangers First.

Rangers First has an upcoming AGM at the end of January or early February 2016, At this AGM the Rangers First members should be given the respect deserved by discussing this loan proposal at the AGM and then deciding what type of person we want to vote into office as a Director of Rangers First. Individuals that will never be disrespectful to our members or enter into discussions without 100% Transparency.

I have had discussions today with Rangers First Board members James you being one of them and it is clear there is discord regarding Rangers First and its direction. One Rangers First Board member has resigned and others have agreed that it might be the correct decision to suspend the vote on giving this loan until the internal politics of Rangers First is discussed and a harmonious Board invite our member to a meeting to discuss all the detail of this UNSECURED LOAN.

I want to put it on record that I am appalled that you think putting this vote on a website with only 4 days till it closes and with no real detail or discussion showing a total lack of respect to our members. This is a HUGE DECISION and must not be rushed through.

All our Members must be informed Immediately that a Director has resigned as a matter of principal regarding the lack of diligence and Transparency and other Directors are not comfortable with the workings of Rangers First or your position at Rangers First.

This leads me to another request that you James Blair must resign from Rangers First with immediate effect as there is a clear conflict of interest in your role as Rangers First Secretary and also the Secretary of Rangers international.

Rangers First must always be 100% INDEPENDENT and have no Board Member with a split Loyalty. This is a serious request and I am asking for a Meeting to be arranged as a matter of urgency to discuss this matter.

I have also had conversations today with many other Rangers First Members that want a full discussion on this matter.

I repeat my request that Rangers First must SUSPEND this vote until a full meeting is arranged to discuss the detail.

I repeat my request that you resign with Immediate effect and I request you accept this as a full Complaint into your position at Rangers First.

I also request that this e mail be shown to all Directors of Rangers First with immediate effect and I ask that the Board convene an urgent meeting to discuss the suspension of this vote and your position as a Board Member at Rangers First.

I look forward to an early reply

Brian Bowman
Founder Member of Rangers First


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[oldbutdim]

Uh-oh........

James won't like that.

He'll not back down either.
🤓

[greenginger]

Phil has a new piece on Rangers finances,

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/crisis-loans-and-swooping-war-chests/#comment-166389

A point in it that I don't think has been picked up on, rangers Accounts stating a shortfall in funding of £ 2.5 million for the season was dependent on " a conservative estimate of revenue from player sales "

What a conservative estimate is, is anybodies guess, the amount they will actually generate is easier ; - Ziltch !

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-first-dave-king-500k-7139511

More on Rangers First. Don't know what exactly happened yesterday but it's Rangers First who are getting thrown under a bus.


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[Ozyhibby]

Phil has a new piece on Rangers finances,

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/crisis-loans-and-swooping-war-chests/#comment-166389

A point in it that I don't think has been picked up on, rangers Accounts stating a shortfall in funding of £ 2.5 million for the season was dependent on " a conservative estimate of revenue from player sales "

What a conservative estimate is, is anybodies guess, the amount they will actually generate is easier ; - Ziltch !

And still no confirmation that SD have been paid.


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[Jack]

I think that the Rangers fans will probably consider the relationship with SDM as similar to the way I remember my time with a former German hooker, it was a roller-coaster ride to hell and back but **** was the sex good. :greengrin

Did you pay with someone else's credit card?

[Ozyhibby]

Long post but a good read from the excellent Celtic blogger James Forrest.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-internet-bampots-right-from-the-start/



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[Smartie]

Did you pay with someone else's credit card?

Aye, he swiped the card up and down her crack a couple of times but tbh couldn't care less whether the transaction went though, who ended up picking up the tab or even if it was picked up at all.

Very Sir David Murray.

[brog]

Long post but a good read from the excellent Celtic blogger James Forrest.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-internet-bampots-right-from-the-start/



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Tremendous stuff. You have to imagine someone like Alex Thomson or James Doleman is right now working on a documentary re this whole incredible story once legal proceedings are concluded. You also wonder just how can either Doncaster or Regan remain in office, they have totally abrogated their management responsibility.

[Stevie Reid]

Long post but a good read from the excellent Celtic blogger James Forrest.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-internet-bampots-right-from-the-start/



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Very good read. I notice he makes reference to the global financial crash of 2008 - a lot of what he writes and the levels of denial from the authorities in this also remind me of what happened with Bernie Madoff, who carried out the biggest financial fraud in US history. There is a documentary entitled Chasing Madoff which tells a story of one journalist who tried over and over again to reveal the obvious truth about Madoff's scheme - but no one would listen, because the implications of it being a reality were utterly catastrophic: -

But what about the Securities and Exchange Commission? What about the Wall Street Journal? What about the New York Times? Bloomberg News? Didn't they know? Harry Markopolos told them. He was a respected professional. Year after year, he supplied them all with carefully documented evidence of what the scheme was and how it worked. The problem was, they didn't want to know. Its scope was so vast, Madoff's webs were so complex, that if it were true, that would make it the largest Ponzi scheme in history. Which it was.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Very good read. I notice he makes reference to the global financial crash of 2008 - a lot of what he writes and the levels of denial from the authorities in this also remind me of what happened with Bernie Madoff, who carried out the biggest financial fraud in US history. There is a documentary entitled Chasing Madoff which tells a story of one journalist who tried over and over again to reveal the obvious truth about Madoff's scheme - but no one would listen, because the implications of it being a reality were utterly catastrophic: -

But what about the Securities and Exchange Commission? What about the Wall Street Journal? What about the New York Times? Bloomberg News? Didn't they know? Harry Markopolos told them. He was a respected professional. Year after year, he supplied them all with carefully documented evidence of what the scheme was and how it worked. The problem was, they didn't want to know. Its scope was so vast, Madoff's webs were so complex, that if it were true, that would make it the largest Ponzi scheme in history. Which it was.


See Andrew Jennings.

[Stevie Reid]

See Andrew Jennings.

A much better, and more relevant, comparison! :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Phil has a new piece on Rangers finances,

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/crisis-loans-and-swooping-war-chests/#comment-166389

A point in it that I don't think has been picked up on, rangers Accounts stating a shortfall in funding of £ 2.5 million for the season was dependent on " a conservative estimate of revenue from player sales "

What a conservative estimate is, is anybodies guess, the amount they will actually generate is easier ; - Ziltch !

I can't see anything to that effect in the accounts.

[greenginger]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

Big Mike finally going nuclear? :cb

[Ozyhibby]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

Been watching that rumour all afternoon (I'm really that sad [emoji3]) but can't find anything concrete behind it. Let's hope there is something in it.
Not that I'm adverse to totally unsubstantiated rumours of course.

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[Ozyhibby]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13927035&t=9260081


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[Jack]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

Hardly surprising.

A big fuss about having the money to pay off Neds Direct supposedly by cheque at a time when there were few banking days. Neds Direct supposedly saying no. Money left in the account.

Anyone overdue money from them would be foolish not to take action.

[grunt]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13927035&t=9260081


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat post seems to indicate that it isn't true??

[grunt]

Sevcotaxcase ‏@Sevcotaxcase 46m46 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Sevcotaxcase/status/685517957858852864) hello. I knew this account would be useful one day. #itshappeningagain (https://twitter.com/hashtag/itshappeningagain?src=hash)

[Deansy]

Long post but a good read from the excellent Celtic blogger James Forrest.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-internet-bampots-right-from-the-start/



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Good read but he's wasting his time if he's wanting acknowledged for the part he and other bloggers have played in all of this - when all the Hun court-cases are done, our MSM will be packed with - 'We told you so - Exclusive !!' headlines with not the slightest blush or twinge of conscience !!

[Ozyhibby]

Good read but he's wasting his time if he's wanting acknowledged for the part he and other bloggers have played in all of this - when all the Hun court-cases are done, our MSM will be packed with - 'We told you so - Exclusive !!' headlines with not the slightest blush or twinge of conscience !!

Some of our mainstream newspapers may not last that long. [emoji3]


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[Deansy]

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9260081/438/

A few posters on Kerrydale Street saying there has been an arrestment order served on the Sevco bank account.

Not clear who by or for what amount.

Hope its nothing trivial ! :greengrin

Am getting an image of a piece of duct-tape slapped over the slot in a china/porcelain pig .............

[Spike Mandela]

No idea of anything about the tweeter but any way here goes for what it's worth.....

“@GweedoreHack: People wondering if the arrestment is true, it is. Also part of other orchestrated actions against Sevco that will become clear next week.”


“@GweedoreHack: Unlike the arrestment served to Rangers by sheriffs on behalf of HMRC, this is from a private company. They mean business.”


“@GweedoreHack: My sources tell me you can start the 7 day countdown from 9am on Monday 11th January 2016, or thereabouts, depending on traffic.”

[JeMeSouviens]

No idea of anything about the tweeter but any way here goes for what it's worth.....

“@GweedoreHack: People wondering if the arrestment is true, it is. Also part of other orchestrated actions against Sevco that will become clear next week.”


“@GweedoreHack: Unlike the arrestment served to Rangers by sheriffs on behalf of HMRC, this is from a private company. They mean business.”


“@GweedoreHack: My sources tell me you can start the 7 day countdown from 9am on Monday 11th January 2016, or thereabouts, depending on traffic.”

Gweedore is a small village in Donegal, where our Dear Writer and syntactically challenged freelance hack, Phil Mc hangs out. Could be a parody, or a 2nd account? The plot, like his plodding prose, thickens!

[Ozyhibby]

Gweedore is a small village in Donegal, where our Dear Writer and syntactically challenged freelance hack, Phil Mc hangs out. Could be a parody, or a 2nd account? The plot, like his plodding prose, thickens!

Claims he will release full details on Sunday night.


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