Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Kaiser1962]

The "football-related creditors", though, is an irrelevance in Scotland.

Or have I misunderstood your point?


Wasnt sure who D+P designated as "Football Related Creditors" CWG.

The amount that D+P suggest is due to FRC appear to only be the debt oweing to Scottish clubs and authorities and the figure published in the document under that category does not appear to include money owed to Vienna, Chelsea or Manchester City.

While I realise that money may well be paid to the national clubs out of SPL prize money UEFA will undoubtedly frown (more than frown hopefully) on the money owed to other European clubs, especially if it isnt paid in full.

Duff and Phelps statement here

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/fe/a8/0,,5~174334,00.pdf

[CropleyWasGod]

Wasnt sure who D+P designated as "Football Related Creditors" CWG.

The amount that D+P suggest is due to FRC appear to only be the debt oweing to Scottish clubs and authorities and the figure published in the document under that category does not appear to include money owed to Vienna, Chelsea or Manchester City.

While I realise that money may well be paid to the national clubs out of SPL prize money UEFA will undoubtedly frown (more than frown hopefully) on the money owed to other European clubs, especially if it isnt paid in full.

As I understand the law, though, it's irrelevant what UEFA think. All creditors are entitled to be treated the same, FRC or not. I know that the FA have different rules, but I am not sure how they manage to trump the law in that respect.

As far as the Scottish clubs are concerned, they should be treated in the same way. If any money is due from the SFA or SPL, that should go into the pot for the benefit of all creditors. If I were, say, Glasgow Council, I would be very angry if that money was diverted and the clubs paid in full.

[Seveno]

Speaking with a friend who is a senior member of HMRC in Scotland , while refusing point blank to discuss RFC which is understandable, he made the point that " .... cannot describe the level of embarressment , at HMRC , over the failure to get a verdict in the Harry Redknapp case and they certainly will not be wanting a repeat with RFC "
Take what you like out of that :greengrin

I like your friend. :not worth

[Kaiser1962]

That says to me that it has been settled.

I know.

Its just that D+P designated it should have a line all to itself amongst the creditors that states TBC. Maybe it has been confirmed and it's dealt with.

[Kaiser1962]

As I understand the law, though, it's irrelevant what UEFA think. All creditors are entitled to be treated the same, FRC or not. I know that the FA have different rules, but I am not sure how they manage to trump the law in that respect.

As far as the Scottish clubs are concerned, they should be treated in the same way. If any money is due from the SFA or SPL, that should go into the pot for the benefit of all creditors. If I were, say, Glasgow Council, I would be very angry if that money was diverted and the clubs paid in full.


Does the same not apply to any deal brokered with Ticketus which would then get their approval for a CVA?

For example can the Blue Knights strike a deal with Ticketus that would net them (Ticketus) say 50p in the £ and in return Ticketus, as 48% creditor, vote their approval of the CVA that might net the rest of the creditors considerably less?

[Brando7]

Been reading into this Bill Murry “incubator” idea n please someone tell me i'm wrong but i'm reading into this is the the heart moving to an incubator he means to me is

The heart means the club assetts (Ibrox & murry park) which D&P have stated a value of £109m and making that the newco, Leaving current Rangers in administration until a CVA is agreed then will move the heart back & close the newco however if this is not agreed he has to liquidise Rangers but however the main assets (Ibrox & murry park) cannot be used to raise money as they are part of the new company & creditors get bugger all & the newco reforms debt free with £109m fixed assets in place

[CropleyWasGod]

Been reading into this Bill Murry “incubator” idea n please someone tell me i'm wrong but i'm reading into this is the the heart moving to an incubator he means to me is

The club assetts (Ibrox & murry park) which D&P have stated a value of £109m and making that the newco, Leaving current Rangers in administration until a CVA is agreed then will move the heart back & close the newco however if this is not agreed he has to liquidise Rangers but however the main assets (Ibrox & murry park) cannot be used to raise money as they are part of the new company & creditors get bugger all & the newco reforms debt free with £109m fixed assets in place

In another universe, Ibrox and Murray Park might have a value of £109m.

That aside, moving the assets in the way you suggest, before liquidation, would be a complete no-no. A liquidator would demand them back.

[Ozyhibby]

Does the same not apply to any deal brokered with Ticketus which would then get their approval for a CVA?

For example can the Blue Knights strike a deal with Ticketus that would net them (Ticketus) say 50p in the £ and in return Ticketus, as 48% creditor, vote their approval of the CVA that might net the rest of the creditors considerably less?

HMRC usually insist that all creditor are treated equally. They can block any CVA which does not achieve this.

[CropleyWasGod]

HMRC usually insist that all creditor are treated equally. They can block any CVA which does not achieve this.

It's the law, not HMRC, that insists that all creditors are treated the same. HMRC can only block a CVA if their debt is 25% of the total.

[Kaiser1962]

HMRC usually insist that all creditor are treated equally. They can block any CVA which does not achieve this.


Which does not achieve this officially.

Did the Blue knights not suggest something like they had done a deal (only they hadnt) with Ticketus in that Ticketus were receiving £17m over a period of time in return for their supporting the BK?

The cynic in me read that as buying their support for a CVA.

[CropleyWasGod]

Which does not achieve this officially.

Did the Blue knights not suggest something like they had done a deal (only they hadnt) with Ticketus in that Ticketus were receiving £17m over a period of time in return for their supporting the BK?

The cynic in me read that as buying their support for a CVA.

By striking a deal, Ticketus would remove their claim as a creditor. In turn, that would improve the return to other creditors.

[lapsedhibee]

:agree: HMRC wrote off, in their minds anyway, most of their debt a while ago. Even a solvent Rangers couldn't pay the sums being talked about.


There's no-one sniffing glue at Ibrox.

[Kaiser1962]

By striking a deal, Ticketus would remove their claim as a creditor. In turn, that would improve the return to other creditors.

If they dealt with Ticketus, who were then removed as a creditor, HMRC would then be owed more than 50% of the debt that was left and there would then be little or no chance of them getting their CVA? Is my thinking correct?

[CropleyWasGod]

If they dealt with Ticketus, who were then removed as a creditor, HMRC would then be owed more than 50% of the debt that was left and there would then be little or no chance of them getting their CVA? Is my thinking correct?

That seems sensible to me.

[YehButNoBut]

From todays Scotsman, McCoist saying that they will be scrapping it out for a top 6 place next season at best, doubt they will even be in the SPL.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-administration-rangers-could-struggle-to-finish-fourth-next-season-ally-mccoist-1-2248805

ALLY McCoist fears that the best-case scenario for Rangers next season could be scrapping it out for a place in the top six.
Even if the Ibrox club exit administration through a Company Voluntary Arrangement, they are likely to lose major playing assets. In return for 75 per cent wage cuts, all the high earners had clauses inserted into their contracts that will allow them to leave in the summer for modest fees. With none of the prospective new owners promising major investment, most players are likely to activate these clauses.

Even if Rangers are not liquidated, McCoist’s hopes of making a trophy-winning impression as manager will involve having to work with a squad with youth at its core.

Hibernian under Tony Mowbray flourished with a young side in the mid-2000s, finishing third and fourth, but McCoist fears even that may be beyond Rangers.
“You’d have to say that it’s a possibility [that Rangers will field a very young team]. We don’t know what the outcome is going to be. I’m not in control of the situation in terms of bringing players in or selling players. We don’t know the finances, if and when we get a new owner.

“It’s not always gone badly when kids have been thrown in but you’d have to say there’s absolutely no way we’d reach any level of where we have been, if that was the case. Certainly for the foreseeable future, and the next two, three, four years could be challenging. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
“Hibs did well with young players but they arguably had the best batch in the last 20 or 30 years in Scottish football. I’m not saying our batch are anything as good as that. So fourth might not even be remotely possible.”

If Rangers became as irrelevant to the title race as the club were in the early 1980s McCoist admits it would become the “biggest test” of a support who largely deserted the club during that fallow period.

“I really do [think the fans would continue to back Rangers]. In a perverse way, they like adversity, a challenge. I think they’ve been sensational. I don’t think there are many clubs in the world who could get 48,000 for an old boys’ game. Now it could be about getting 48,000 for a young boys’ game.

“Ever since administration, the fans have turned up to Inverness and wherever we’ve been. I just think they’ve been great.

“It would be our biggest test, there is no doubt about that. It would be an absolutely massive test but I really don’t think it would scare them. It would galvanise them, be an act of defiance.”

[Jack]

From todays Scotsman, McCoist saying that they will be scrapping it out for a top 6 place next season at best, doubt they will even be in the SPL.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-administration-rangers-could-struggle-to-finish-fourth-next-season-ally-mccoist-1-2248805

ALLY McCoist fears that the best-case scenario for Rangers next season could be scrapping it out for a place in the top six.
Even if the Ibrox club exit administration through a Company Voluntary Arrangement, they are likely to lose major playing assets. In return for 75 per cent wage cuts, all the high earners had clauses inserted into their contracts that will allow them to leave in the summer for modest fees. With none of the prospective new owners promising major investment, most players are likely to activate these clauses.

Even if Rangers are not liquidated, McCoist’s hopes of making a trophy-winning impression as manager will involve having to work with a squad with youth at its core.

Hibernian under Tony Mowbray flourished with a young side in the mid-2000s, finishing third and fourth, but McCoist fears even that may be beyond Rangers.
“You’d have to say that it’s a possibility [that Rangers will field a very young team]. We don’t know what the outcome is going to be. I’m not in control of the situation in terms of bringing players in or selling players. We don’t know the finances, if and when we get a new owner.

“It’s not always gone badly when kids have been thrown in but you’d have to say there’s absolutely no way we’d reach any level of where we have been, if that was the case. Certainly for the foreseeable future, and the next two, three, four years could be challenging. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
“Hibs did well with young players but they arguably had the best batch in the last 20 or 30 years in Scottish football. I’m not saying our batch are anything as good as that. So fourth might not even be remotely possible.”

If Rangers became as irrelevant to the title race as the club were in the early 1980s McCoist admits it would become the “biggest test” of a support who largely deserted the club during that fallow period.

“I really do [think the fans would continue to back Rangers]. In a perverse way, they like adversity, a challenge. I think they’ve been sensational. I don’t think there are many clubs in the world who could get 48,000 for an old boys’ game. Now it could be about getting 48,000 for a young boys’ game.

“Ever since administration, the fans have turned up to Inverness and wherever we’ve been. I just think they’ve been great.

“It would be our biggest test, there is no doubt about that. It would be an absolutely massive test but I really don’t think it would scare them. It would galvanise them, be an act of defiance.”

Absolutely gutted to hear this!

Had me thinking though that a great adventure from the third division may take a little longer than people are thinking. And whose to say very promising youngsters would want to stay? Even longer still :-)

[Caversham Green]

As I understand the law, though, it's irrelevant what UEFA think. All creditors are entitled to be treated the same, FRC or not. I know that the FA have different rules, but I am not sure how they manage to trump the law in that respect.

As far as the Scottish clubs are concerned, they should be treated in the same way. If any money is due from the SFA or SPL, that should go into the pot for the benefit of all creditors. If I were, say, Glasgow Council, I would be very angry if that money was diverted and the clubs paid in full.

I'm wondering if it could be argued that the SFA/SPL money is not Rangers' entitlement, but it belongs to the SFA/SPL to distribute as they see fit within their rules. Those rules include a clause allowing them to divert money from a defaulting club direct to a creditor club, so creditors like Glasgow Council (or even non-Scottish football clubs) can whistle.

[jonty]

Its Sunday.

Can they not just die already.

(although to be fair, it does give something interesting to read during the week)

Scottish football needs it arse kicked and the two main offenders at the moment and Huns and mini-huns. One of them needs to be sacrificed before the end of the season, the other before the start of next.

How disappointing it would be to turn up at Hampden only to be told Hearts no longer existed.
Ah well - every cloud and all that!

[Caversham Green]

In another universe, Ibrox and Murray Park might have a value of £109m.

That aside, moving the assets in the way you suggest, before liquidation, would be a complete no-no. A liquidator would demand them back.

Funnily enough, the value of freehold properties in the accounts is £112m and the attached note says "The Directors determined the valuation of freehold properties based on their recoverable amount as at 30 June 2010." (My underlining).

Badly worded for sure, but a pedantic creditor could argue that that is the sort of figure the administrators should be looking for in a sale or transfer to a Newco. Otherwise there's an accusation of false accounting against the directors...including Paul Murray.

[greenginger]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315845/


If there is any truth in this article its time some people broke ranks and killed these behind the scenes deals.

Where's Vlad when you need him. This has all the ingredients for Monkeys, etc rant.

[s.a.m]

Funnily enough, the value of freehold properties in the accounts is £112m and the attached note says "The Directors determined the valuation of freehold properties based on their recoverable amount as at 30 June 2010." (My underlining).

Badly worded for sure, but a pedantic creditor could argue that that is the sort of figure the administrators should be looking for in a sale or transfer to a Newco. Otherwise there's an accusation of false accounting against the directors...including Paul Murray.

'mon the pedantic creditors! :greengrin

[McD]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315845/


If there is any truth in this article its time some people broke ranks and killed these behind the scenes deals.

Where's Vlad when you need him. This has all the ingredients for Monkeys, etc rant.


In the article, the journalist states that the newco would take ownership of the clubs assets, specifically mentioning Ibrox, Murray Park and the players.

Clark then re-iterates this further down without mentioning the specific assets.

How does this stand with 3rd party ownership of player contracts?

[R'Albin]

I can't really be bothered looking for what's happening, and I don't really understand the financial stuff.. So what's happening with them at the moment?

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315845/


If there is any truth in this article its time some people broke ranks and killed these behind the scenes deals.

Where's Vlad when you need him. This has all the ingredients for Monkeys, etc rant.

I don't think it's Doncaster's call to do these "deals". At best, he can promise to put it to his Board, or the other clubs, with a recommendation that they accept it.

The other thought that I have is that this article is merely meant to put pressure on the Knights to up their game.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't really be bothered looking for what's happening, and I don't really understand the financial stuff.. So what's happening with them at the moment?

As each week passes, RFC have less cash. There is therefore a lot of pressure on to do a deal with somebody very soon. Bums are squeaking.

The end.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm wondering if it could be argued that the SFA/SPL money is not Rangers' entitlement, but it belongs to the SFA/SPL to distribute as they see fit within their rules. Those rules include a clause allowing them to divert money from a defaulting club direct to a creditor club, so creditors like Glasgow Council (or even non-Scottish football clubs) can whistle.

Hmmm... you may be right. Struggling, though, to think of an analogy in the "real" commercial world.

Is it like, say, a "contingent debtor".... ie will only be paid if certain conditions are met?

[Caversham Green]

Alex Thomsom's take on it:

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/bill-miller-rangers/1236

[Squealing pig]

How many posts do you have on this thread cropleywasgod?

[CropleyWasGod]

How many posts do you have on this thread cropleywasgod?

*ifano. Why?

[Caversham Green]

Hmmm... you may be right. Struggling, though, to think of an analogy in the "real" commercial world.

Is it like, say, a "contingent debtor".... ie will only be paid if certain conditions are met?

Can't really help you with the analogy thing, but the SPL is an association of clubs - a co-operative if you like. Its role in this respect is to collect income and then distribute it according to the rules - the money belongs to everyone and no-one within the association until such time as it has been handed out. As the rules cover a default in payments between one member and another the SPL board can recalculate the distribution accordingly. Not so much a contingent debtor, more like an assignable one.

I think that makes sense.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't really help you with the analogy thing, but the SPL is an association of clubs - a co-operative if you like. Its role in this respect is to collect income and then distribute it according to the rules - the money belongs to everyone and no-one within the association until such time as it has been handed out. As the rules cover a default in payments between one member and another the SPL board can recalculate the distribution accordingly. Not so much a contingent debtor, more like an assignable one.

I think that makes sense.

Ok, that does make sense.

It also helps to explain how the FA can insist on the Football Creditors rule trumping the law.

[Jim44]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/315845/


If there is any truth in this article its time some people broke ranks and killed these behind the scenes deals.

Where's Vlad when you need him. This has all the ingredients for Monkeys, etc rant.

Doncaster's a real snake in the grass. Why is he not publicly decrying Miller's outrageous attempts to dictate to the SPL and the SFA?


Alex Thomson on this point - "The Scottish Premier League won’t comment officially as yet, which is a little odd. My hunch would have been that very public rejection of anybody trying to hand conditions like this on a bid serves the interests of football. It’s a no brainer.

That’s the only worrying part, the unwillingness of Scottish football to openly laugh off someone who wants to own a club on these terms.

What’s alarming is that anyone out there – even in the land of soccer – can think for one second that Rangers (if they are liable on tax and registration issues) can possibly exist in the Premier League without major points deduction and loss of a lot of silverware – as a bare minimum for what they would have been liable for."

[Seveno]

It seems to me that liquidation within the next few days is an increasing possibility. If it happens before the end of the season, is the bottom club in the SPL saved from relegation ?

I think that it has been covered before but my constant laughing at this situation seems to have damaged a few brains cells and I can't remember.

[ScottB]

Alex Thomsom's take on it:

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/bill-miller-rangers/1236

He floats around the inevitable conclusion; the SPL and SFA will bend down and kiss this guys feet if that's what it takes.

[ScottB]

It seems to me that liquidation within the next few days is an increasing possibility. If it happens before the end of the season, is the bottom club in the SPL saved from relegation ?

I think that it has been covered before but my constant laughing at this situation seems to have damaged a few brains cells and I can't remember.

If they can't fulfil their fixtures they get punted out the league. It would be the end of them really, there'd be no registration for a newco to take, as the oldco would have lost it.

[WindyMiller]

Alex Thomsom's take on it:

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/bill-miller-rangers/1236


Can I just say there must be another WindyMiller!!:confused:

If I had the cash they'd have been closed down .

[jgl07]

How things change:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/ibrox-capacity-could-reach-70-000-if-rebuilding-blueprint-gets-go-ahead-1-1072724

I wonder if the Newco will revive these plans?

[ScottB]

How things change:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/ibrox-capacity-could-reach-70-000-if-rebuilding-blueprint-gets-go-ahead-1-1072724

I wonder if the Newco will revive these plans?

More room for the 10,000 that'll turn up to watch them win f all for the next few years then :wink:

[WeAreHibs]

It seems to me that liquidation within the next few days is an increasing possibility. If it happens before the end of the season, is the bottom club in the SPL saved from relegation ?

I think that it has been covered before but my constant laughing at this situation seems to have damaged a few brains cells and I can't remember.


Now don't shoot the messenger, I'm only passing on something I was told on Friday night by a mate who was at Ayr Races with a reasonable well known west coast businessman. Apparently, his brother knows Martin Bain who'd had a call from Super Ally saying that he'd been told liquidation is happening on Monday.

Obviously things may have changed over the weekend but wasn't there chat over the weekend of BDO getting involved?

Who knows? All we can do is pray :pray:

[R'Albin]

As each week passes, RFC have less cash. There is therefore a lot of pressure on to do a deal with somebody very soon. Bums are squeaking.

The end.

Sounds good to me :thumbsup:


By the way - over 850 posts on this thread :o

[Brando7]

In another universe, Ibrox and Murray Park might have a value of £109m.

That aside, moving the assets in the way you suggest, before liquidation, would be a complete no-no. A liquidator would demand them back.

I hope you are right on this as i'm reading into this as if this his how they planning it, even bbc have stated "Murray wants to achieve a company voluntary arrangement, where creditors would accept a fraction of the amounts they are due, while Miller is known to favour a hybrid takeover that involves transferring assets to a new company and trying to achieve a CVA with the existing company"

found this link worth reading, something live BM is up to

http://coopermatthews.com/pre-pack-administration.html

[jgl07]

I hope you are right on this as i'm reading into this as if this his how they planning it, even bbc have stated "Murray wants to achieve a company voluntary arrangement, where creditors would accept a fraction of the amounts they are due, while Miller is known to favour a hybrid takeover that involves transferring assets to a new company and trying to achieve a CVA with the existing company"

found this link worth reading, something live BM is up to

http://coopermatthews.com/pre-pack-administration.html

But surely either option would require the agreement of Craig Whyte?

And that is before HMRC get involved.

A straight liquidation followed by a new club stills seems more likely to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sounds good to me :thumbsup:


By the way - over 850 posts on this thread :o

Me?

You actually counted them?

:aok:

[ancient hibee]

Expect to see Rangers/Cowdenbeath playing in Division 1 at Ibrox next season.

[jgl07]

Me?

You actually counted them?

:aok:

You don't need to.

Hover over the icon on the main forum menu and it will tell you how many postings you have made.

I have 161.

[WindyMiller]

Expect to see Rangers/Cowdenbeath playing in Division 1 at Ibrox next season.


That's my concern too.

[joe breezy]

Would be terrible if the Blue Brazil become the Blue Bigots :bitchy:

[joe breezy]

A bit of a buzz about Rangers being liquidated tomorrow but Phil MacGiollaBhain, who so far, has been pretty clued up on the subject says this isn't the case.

He says they have enough money to keep going till May 14th...

He also says that death = death

Although tell that to an Airdrie fan...

[down-the-slope]

D&P will be getting concerned that the money is draining away...and where their over inflated fees will come from :greengrin

They need to get selling season tickets for next year (who ever is in charge of what ever they are / have become) for where ever they are playing...or they are toast..

So a resolution one way ore another will not be far away if they can sort it....so lets hope for as many spanners in the works / delays that will waste more money...

Come on Cragie Boy....no selling your shares easily / quickly / cheaply :cb

[SurferRosa]

Taken from RM.....

TBK have won the race to take over Rangers, and will be announced as Preferred Bidders tomorrow.

Final details have been ironed out over the weekend and agreed with D&P.

Ticketus are involved, but Kennedy is not, at this stage anyway.

The BK will now proceed with D&P to agree a CVA with creditors before the deadlines for further footballing sanctions to be imposed.

Whytes shareholding to be secured In exchange for him not being sued for his PG by Ticketus.

CVA likely to agreed as talks already taken place between D&P and HMRC and HMRC are not going to be too difficult to deal with, and as they will have the major say, this will see the CVA go through.

The club will NOT be liquidated!

:dunno:.......not good IF true.

[joe breezy]

Taken from RM.....

TBK have won the race to take over Rangers, and will be announced as Preferred Bidders tomorrow.

Final details have been ironed out over the weekend and agreed with D&P.

Ticketus are involved, but Kennedy is not, at this stage anyway.

The BK will now proceed with D&P to agree a CVA with creditors before the deadlines for further footballing sanctions to be imposed.

Whytes shareholding to be secured In exchange for him not being sued for his PG by Ticketus.

CVA likely to agreed as talks already taken place between D&P and HMRC and HMRC are not going to be too difficult to deal with, and as they will have the major say, this will see the CVA go through.

The club will NOT be liquidated!

:dunno:.......not good IF true.\


I just can't see how this will be possible.
Rangers Football Club were seriously breaking the law for years with almost the whole squad on EBTs (overseas accounts paying wages to avoid taxes)

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/

HMRC can't let a big business away with fraud on such a massive scale? If they do, Scottish football is rotten to the core and is pretty much finished.

[grunt]

What's RM?

[SurferRosa]

\


I just can't see how this will be possible.
Rangers Football Club were seriously breaking the law for years with almost the whole squad on EBTs (overseas accounts paying wages to avoid taxes)

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/

HMRC can't let a big business away with fraud on such a massive scale? If they do, Scottish football is rotten to the core and is pretty much finished.

I completely agree with you mate. I cant see how they could get away with it either.
The hun who posted it is a Mod on their site and seems to be sure of his source although quite a few of the posters are sceptical.

Hope HMRC are prepared for the backlash if its true.
I certainly hope it`s a load of baws but i guess we`ll find out tomorrow.

[SurferRosa]

What's RM?

Rangers Media. A Hun messageboard.

[grunt]

So have TBK offered more than Miller's £11.2m?
This whole thing stinks.

[down-the-slope]

Don't panic...RM is hardly a reliable source (poorer than .Net :greengrin)

[jgl07]

Rangers Media. A Hun messageboard.

A deluded Rangers messageboard.

Are there any that are not deluded?

[SurferRosa]

Don't panic...RM is hardly a reliable source (poorer than .Net :greengrin)

True.:agree:

The Blue Knights were in talks with Dumb and Dumber this weekend but how they`ve suddenly come up with the cash to trump Miller is a mystery when they couldn`t stump up the £500,000 exclusivity fee.

I still find it hard to believe that HMRC would agree to any CVA given the huge figures being talked about.....there would be a national outcry and every dodgy company in the land would be rubbing their hands with glee.

[down-the-slope]

Lets assume that someone buys them...via CVA.....(unlikely)

what do they have.... a club that was spending £1 million a month more than its income (and that cost base is still there after player wages bounce back) ...no UEFA income in the coming year....a toxic brand that sponsors will not be keen on...and still the BTC outstanding...

As was pointed out on TV the other evening...being sold for less than Tore Andre Flo cost...shows the level to which they have fallen

[Kaiser1962]

Ticketus are involved, but Kennedy is not, at this stage anyway.

The BK will now proceed with D&P to agree a CVA with creditors before the deadlines for further footballing sanctions to be imposed.




Can Ticketus enter into any kind of deal independent of the other creditor's and still remain a creditor?

If Ticketus have struck a deal with BK then that will/should leave HMRC as by far the biggest creditor and, therefore, the likelihood of a CVA is remote at best.

[jgl07]

Taken from RM.....

TBK have won the race to take over Rangers, and will be announced as Preferred Bidders tomorrow.

Final details have been ironed out over the weekend and agreed with D&P.

Ticketus are involved, but Kennedy is not, at this stage anyway.

The BK will now proceed with D&P to agree a CVA with creditors before the deadlines for further footballing sanctions to be imposed.

Whytes shareholding to be secured In exchange for him not being sued for his PG by Ticketus.

CVA likely to agreed as talks already taken place between D&P and HMRC and HMRC are not going to be too difficult to deal with, and as they will have the major say, this will see the CVA go through.

[/B][B]The club will NOT be liquidated!



This statement is the best laugh in years. That is at least since Keith Jackson informed everyone that Craig Whyte was a billionaire who really loved Rangers.

"HMRC are not going to be difficult to deal with" is the best bit.

A consortium led by someone who was upto his neck in the whole shambles of the Big Tax Case does not seem at the top of the agenda for HMRC.

Apart from anything else can anyone point to an example where HMRC agreed to a CVA with a football club that they were in a position to block?

Didn't think so!

[SurferRosa]

To me,the only way that D&P could be announcing TBK as the preferred bidder is because they know that there is no way the SFA/SPL will satisfy Millers ridiculous conditions.
That means he walks and hey presto......TBK are the only gang in town.

This would mean the fud on RM has misinterpreted his " source ".......:pray:

I just cannot believe that HMRC would enter into a CVA with any company never mind der Hun...

[jgl07]

Message board or Rangers Message board?

:cb

They come in two types: deluded or pessimistic. The pessimist boards can be categorized as self-pitying or moaning.

[Spike Mandela]

This statement is the best laugh in years. That is at least since Keith Jackson informed everyone that Craig Whyte was a billionaire who really loved Rangers.

"HMRC are not going to be difficult to deal with" is the best bit.

A consortium led by someone who was upto his neck in the whole shambles of the Big Tax Case does not seem at the top of the agenda for HMRC.

Apart from anything else can anyone point to an example where HMRC agreed to a CVA with a football club that they were in a position to block?

Didn't think so!

Even if HMRC did do a CVA at the moment the big tax case is still to follow. If lost the Blue Knights would then be liable for up to £75m and would be back in to administration pronto, no:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Even if HMRC did do a CVA at the moment the big tax case is still to follow. If lost the Blue Knights would then be liable for up to £75m and would be back in to administration pronto, no:confused:

As I understand it, any CVA now would include a sum "for all amounts due to HMRC". HMRC will have put a claim in for the BTC amount and the current debt... if they win it, any CVA would be based on that amount; if not, it would be based on the smaller amount.

[joe breezy]

One of the guys on Rangers Media is going to start importing all of his personal shopping in an attempt to get HMRC told - that'll show them

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217644&pid=1059971293&st=0&#entry1059971293

Ho Ho Ho

[SurferRosa]

One of the guys on Rangers Media I going to start importing all of his personal shopping in an attempt to get HMRC told - that'll show them

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217644&pid=1059971293&st=0&#entry1059971293

Ho Ho Ho

:faf:......what a tool.

[The Falcon]

Deadline extended again and the Blue Knights rumours "unfounded"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-bids-deadline-to-be-extended.17389696

[grunt]

Graham Speirs on BBC - "The SPL really, really needs Rangers".
No it doesn't.

[Leithenhibby]

Graham Speirs on BBC - "The SPL really, really needs Rangers".
No it doesn't.


:agree:

It's beginning to look like it's not just Der Huns that are starting to squeak :wink:

[greenginger]

The problem seems to be Rangers are obviously dead but nobody seems prepared to make the announcement.

A bit like in the days of the old USSR when leaders like Stalin, who were actually dead were wheeled out for parades to calm the masses.

I dare say when the smell of Ranger's corpse becomes overpowering someone will have to make the call.

Then the scramble over the remains can begin and the blame game start.

[Newry Hibs]

2 questions:

A few pages ago it mentions Warrington Hibs meeting Doncaster? Who is Warrington Hibs and in what capacity is the meeting?


Also there is a feeling on this thread that the Hun demise is a prelude to the main event of HMFC going the same way. I hope they do, but as far as I can work out they only owe money to themselves and keep on paying any tax due (though late and under threat). Is there a suggestion that they may face a big tax bill / case in the future and couldn't pay it?

[magpie1892]

The problem seems to be Rangers are obviously dead but nobody seems prepared to make the announcement.

This is so obviously true and I can't get my head around why no-one is calling it.

[ancienthibby]

This is so obviously true and I can't get my head around why no-one is calling it.

Yet another delay - yawn, yawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17811695

[magpie1892]

Yet another delay - yawn, yawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17811695

It's not really a 'delay' though, is it? The club is utterly toxic, losing money hand over fist even with the current reduced wages thing. No Europe, no likely sponsorship/investment from third parties, enormous debt.

It's all shadow boxing to try and cow creditors into getting shafted @ 8p/£ or the death of hun. The 'delay', such as it is, is that most creditors - notwithstanding the unsettled BTC - are quite comfortable with the situation.

The administrators might as well stop pissing about and appoint a liquidator. Though, it has to be said, it's nice watching hun having hope.

[PatHead]

2 questions:

A few pages ago it mentions Warrington Hibs meeting Doncaster? Who is Warrington Hibs and in what capacity is the meeting?


Also there is a feeling on this thread that the Hun demise is a prelude to the main event of HMFC going the same way. I hope they do, but as far as I can work out they only owe money to themselves and keep on paying any tax due (though late and under threat). Is there a suggestion that they may face a big tax bill / case in the future and couldn't pay it?

Warrington has created the SPL Survey. Have a look on that thread and make sure you have voted and got any friends etc to vote!!!!!!

[JeMeSouviens]

2 questions:

A few pages ago it mentions Warrington Hibs meeting Doncaster? Who is Warrington Hibs and in what capacity is the meeting?


Also there is a feeling on this thread that the Hun demise is a prelude to the main event of HMFC going the same way. I hope they do, but as far as I can work out they only owe money to themselves and keep on paying any tax due (though late and under threat). Is there a suggestion that they may face a big tax bill / case in the future and couldn't pay it?

1. WH is one of the guys behind www.splsurvey.co.uk
2. http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/campbell-ogilvie/

[Caversham Green]

2 questions:

A few pages ago it mentions Warrington Hibs meeting Doncaster? Who is Warrington Hibs and in what capacity is the meeting?


Also there is a feeling on this thread that the Hun demise is a prelude to the main event of HMFC going the same way. I hope they do, but as far as I can work out they only owe money to themselves and keep on paying any tax due (though late and under threat). Is there a suggestion that they may face a big tax bill / case in the future and couldn't pay it?

Re your second question, the last three published accounts from HoMFC have carried a note stating that they were subject to an ongoing HMRC investigation. As it's almost a year since they last published their accounts that may or may not have been concluded and settled, but there has been no indication that I'm aware of that it has been.

And they don't owe the money to themselves, they owe most of it to UBIG. They also depend on future funding from UBIG to retain their going concern status and in December UBIG (through Mr Romanov) made it clear that funding was no longer available.

[Spike Mandela]

Yet another delay - yawn, yawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17811695

So Bill Miller issues a 'Full Statement' in the press last week. This invites others to put up or shut up by today or he will pay the exclusivity fee and proceed. I take it he will do that today or is he just another bull****ter posturing over the decaying corpse that is Rangers.:confused:

[Spike Mandela]

Alex Thomon is tweeting that Duff and Phelps unaware that BDO have been approached regarding RFC liquidation. I think the slightly ambiguous tweet he followed up with suggests he has a source saying they have been. Hmmmm:confused:

[Caversham Green]

Alex Thomon is tweeting that Duff and Phelps unaware that BDO have been approached regarding RFC liquidation. I think the slightly ambiguous tweet he followed up with suggests he has a source saying they have been. Hmmmm:confused:

That's an odd one. Liquidation would need an application to the court and while RFC are in administration the only people who could apply are the administrators. If they did decide on liquidation they would probably look to carry out the process themselves.

If it's not just an idle rumour (BDO have cropped up a few times recently) it may be that HMRC are going to apply for the removal of Duff & Phelps and have approached BDO to offer themselves for appointment in D&P's place. That's just guesswork though.

[jgl07]

Re your second question, the last three published accounts from HoMFC have carried a note stating that they were subject to an ongoing HMRC investigation. As it's almost a year since they last published their accounts that may or may not have been concluded and settled, but there has been no indication that I'm aware of that it has been.

And they don't owe the money to themselves, they owe most of it to UBIG. They also depend on future funding from UBIG to retain their going concern status and in December UBIG (through Mr Romanov) made it clear that funding was no longer available.

What would be the impact of Hearts failing to submit audited accounts by say the start of next season?

That assumes that the auditors refuse to sign on the grounds that you have indicated above.

At what stage could they be regarded as no longer being a going concern?

They presumably have cash at the moment from season ticket sales which will not have been harmed by reaching the cup final.

[Caversham Green]

What would be the impact of Hearts failing to submit audited accounts by say the start of next season?

That assumes that the auditors refuse to sign on the grounds that you have indicated above.

At what stage could they be regarded as no longer being a going concern?

They presumably have cash at the moment from season ticket sales which will not have been harmed by reaching the cup final.

The going concern status is assessed on their ability to continue in business for the foreseeable future, which is generally accepted to be 12 months from the date of signing the report so current trading ability is only partially relevant.

I don't know what the SPL would do if they failed to submit the accounts and the attitude of Companies House is inconsistent. For example I had a client whose accounts were late for the first time last year because of the illness of one of the directors (it's a small family company) and Companies house were threatening to strike the company off and prosecute the directors sixweeks after they were due in. On that basis I can't fathom how the Yams get off with being four months and more late year after year.

[Jack]

Someone help! I’m confused.

Its been mentioned a few times by D&P that none of the current bids are realistic.

It’s a matter of record that HMRC wont accept a CVA.

So is it not time all of them put up, enough dosh, or shut up – including that arrogant tosser from the States?

D&P: If you cant come up with £x million dinny darken our doorstep.

There's been more deadline extensions for this than there have the blummin trams!

[JeMeSouviens]

Someone help! I’m confused.

Its been mentioned a few times by D&P that none of the current bids are realistic.

It’s a matter of record that HMRC wont accept a CVA.

So is it not time all of them put up, enough dosh, or shut up – including that arrogant tosser from the States?

D&P: If you cant come up with £x million dinny darken our doorstep.

There's been more deadline extensions for this than there have the blummin trams!

No, it's not. They won't comment on a specific case before the creditors' vote. They have a policy of not accepting CVAs where the "football creditors rule" applies but there is no such rule in Scotland. However, they have never voted in favour of a football CVA either side of the border that I'm aware of.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Time to switch off the life support. No vital signs, patient unresponsive.

Any viable bid would have come to the fore by now. I'm convinced this only being allowed to drag on because it's Rangers. The plug would have been pulled on Hibs or any other Scottish club long before now. It's over, end this farce.

[Jack]

No, it's not. They won't comment on a specific case before the creditors' vote. They have a policy of not accepting CVAs where the "football creditors rule" applies but there is no such rule in Scotland. However, they have never voted in favour of a football CVA either side of the border that I'm aware of.

In a non-accountancy way I (:dummytit:) think that’s means about the same – HMRC don’t like to be rolled over? :confused:

[Caversham Green]

Time to switch off the life support. No vital signs, patient unresponsive.

Any viable bid would have come to the fore by now. I'm convinced this only being allowed to drag on because it's Rangers. The plug would have been pulled on Hibs or any other Scottish club long before now. It's over, end this farce.

To be fair Gretna got to struggle on to the end of the season even though it was pretty clear they had no future.

[TheEastTerrace]

Only those truly mired in the mess know what's going on (although I have my doubts at the moment!) but the continual extension of the preferred bidder selection is an absolute joke.

Liquidate the bassas and be done with it. We all know it's coming and so do they.

[down-the-slope]

The problem seems to be Rangers are obviously dead but nobody seems prepared to make the announcement.

A bit like in the days of the old USSR when leaders like Stalin, who were actually dead were wheeled out for parades to calm the masses.

I dare say when the smell of Ranger's corpse becomes overpowering someone will have to make the call.

Then the scramble over the remains can begin and the blame game start.

:faf:

I am happily laughing like a lunatic at that

[jgl07]

To be fair Gretna got to struggle on to the end of the season even though it was pretty clear they had no future.

That was only because the SPL effectively bankrolled them till the end of the season to avoid the aggravation that would follow from teams if they had to wipe out Gretna's fixtures from the results.

The SPL would certainly not have the cash to bankroll Rangers.

[grunt]

Don't know if this is true or not...


Tweet - HMRC Telford VAT recovery Unit have secured a session at High Court for 14:00 today to obtain an injunction to remove D&P.

[down-the-slope]

I am trying to forget yesterdays second half...My Cup Final Ticket application is safely in the hands of the TO....can someone not just complete my day with substantive news of there final demise :greengrin

However...its not been mentioned for ages, but I am convinced that for a wide range of reason both D&P / SPL are desparate for them to fulfill fixtures otherwise the concequences would be massive. This was IMO the reason for the players wage reduction agreement length...as without it they would never have made it...I expect them to be liquidated within hours of final match on 12th May...But it may be that the up front payment for preffered bidder status is required to keep cash flow till then (anyone else think its odd that this was widely reported as being £1 million....but recent days have seen this reduced to £500k :confused:)

[grunt]

(anyone else think its odd that this was widely reported as being £1 million....but recent days have seen this reduced to £500k :confused:)I saw that. Also noted the complete and utter lack of comment on the 50% cut from those bloodhounds in the Scottish media.

[Caversham Green]

That was only because the SPL effectively bankrolled them till the end of the season to avoid the aggravation that would follow from teams if they had to wipe out Gretna's fixtures from the results.

The SPL would certainly not have the cash to bankroll Rangers.

True, but there is some money available to the administrators within the club itself as well as the SPL money that will become due. The administrators have claimed that they have enough to carry on to the end of the season, whether that is the right thing to do within their remit is debatable, but that was also true of the Gretna situation.

[Caversham Green]

Don't know if this is true or not...

That could be where the BDO rumours are coming from - no doubt HMRC would have replacements lined up if they moved to replace D&P. Why the High Court though?

[grunt]

That could be where the BDO rumours are coming from - no doubt HMRC would have replacements lined up if they moved to replace D&P. Why the High Court though?As much as I'd like to believe this, I am very wary of putting too much faith in unsubstantiated posts on Twitter. I just thought I'd share it.

[ScottB]

I am trying to forget yesterdays second half...My Cup Final Ticket application is safely in the hands of the TO....can someone not just complete my day with substantive news of there final demise :greengrin

However...its not been mentioned for ages, but I am convinced that for a wide range of reason both D&P / SPL are desparate for them to fulfill fixtures otherwise the concequences would be massive. This was IMO the reason for the players wage reduction agreement length...as without it they would never have made it...I expect them to be liquidated within hours of final match on 12th May...But it may be that the up front payment for preffered bidder status is required to keep cash flow till then (anyone else think its odd that this was widely reported as being £1 million....but recent days have seen this reduced to £500k :confused:)

I would assume if they fail to fulfil their fixtures they get booted out the league, meaning no SPL license for a newco to try and takeover, which would instantly reduce the value of the business, hence the massive effort to keep them staggering on.


I would have thought HMRC and the other creditors would be starting to apply serious pressure by now? This is what, the third extension of the final bidder deadline, there seems to be no serious offer on the table. At what point are D&P forced to come to the conclusion that liquidation is the only viable option?

[Caversham Green]

As much as I'd like to believe this, I am very wary of putting too much faith in unsubstantiated posts on Twitter. I just thought I'd share it.

I have to agree. BDO do seem to be getting a lot of name checks from apparently different sources though.

[PatHead]

I have to agree. BDO do seem to be getting a lot of name checks from apparently different sources though.

BDO better be careful or all "Rangers minded" people will stop using them for their liquidations!!!!!!! :devil:

[WarringtonHibee]

For anyone who's not done the survey from the other thread yet - get it done before 6PM and ***tell everyone*** as we're meeting the SPL tomorrow.

Get it on your twitter, email it to all your contacts, get it on yer Facebook page!

http://www.splsurvey.co.uk - getting close to 16,000 responses.

[jgl07]

I would assume if they fail to fulfil their fixtures they get booted out the league, meaning no SPL license for a newco to try and takeover, which would instantly reduce the value of the business, hence the massive effort to keep them staggering on.

I would have thought HMRC and the other creditors would be starting to apply serious pressure by now? This is what, the third extension of the final bidder deadline, there seems to be no serious offer on the table. At what point are D&P forced to come to the conclusion that liquidation is the only viable option?

The problem is that with the Big Tax Case still hanging there any 'bids' must be so heavily qualified as to be of no use whatsoever.

How can a CVA be agreed if no-one knows the full extent of the liabilities? Will the 10 pence in the pound deal turn out to be 5 pence?

In my view liquidation will take place on Monday 14 May immediately after the last SPL fixtures of the season.

Then the fun will really begin!

[Caversham Green]

BDO better be careful or all "Rangers minded" people will stop using them for their liquidations!!!!!!! :devil:

Either that or they'll stop playing darts. :kdarts:

[Seveno]

That's an odd one. Liquidation would need an application to the court and while RFC are in administration the only people who could apply are the administrators. If they did decide on liquidation they would probably look to carry out the process themselves.

If it's not just an idle rumour (BDO have cropped up a few times recently) it may be that HMRC are going to apply for the removal of Duff & Phelps and have approached BDO to offer themselves for appointment in D&P's place. That's just guesswork though.

That was certainly my guess, not to say desire.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The problem is that with the Big Tax Case still hanging there any 'bids' must be so heavily qualified as to be of no use whatsoever.

How can a CVA be agreed if no-one knows the full extent of the liabilities? Will the 10 pence in the pound deal turn out to be 5 pence?

In my view liquidation will take place on Monday 14 May immediately after the last SPL fixtures of the season.

Then the fun will really begin!

:pray:

We must remain positive :flag:

[killie-hibby]

I would assume if they fail to fulfil their fixtures they get booted out the league, meaning no SPL license for a newco to try and takeover, which would instantly reduce the value of the business, hence the massive effort to keep them staggering on.


I would have thought HMRC and the other creditors would be starting to apply serious pressure by now? This is what, the third extension of the final bidder deadline, there seems to be no serious offer on the table. At what point are D&P forced to come to the conclusion that liquidation is the only viable option?


If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?

[TheEastTerrace]

The soap saga continues.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17811695

I'm no expert but if the bids are still not 'capable of acceptance by the administrators', where does this end? They've been at this for months now - all I read about is talks with this bidder, talks with that bidder. A bloody farce.

Am I the only one who now thinks they are dragging this corpse up until all remaining fixtures are fulfilled, before the inevitable liquidation?

[ScottB]

If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?

Not sure what happens if Rangers liquidate after they complete their fixtures, the chat about a newco coming straight back would suggest the bottom club would go down (though I'd expect a hell of a legal fight).

If Rangers liquidate before the end of the season and can't play games then they are out, their matches removed from the record and nobody goes down, I'd have thought anyway...

[SteveHFC]

Can they just ****ing die? :aok:

[PatHead]

If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?

That is the million dollar question.

(No according to Cheshire and Lancashire Hibs' survey and about everyone I know. Yes according to SPL board.)

[jgl07]

If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?

According to the BBC yes. Two clubs would be promoted.

I think that one came straight from a Neil Doncaster press release. All designed to try and convince Hibs and Dunfermline to vote for a Newco as there would be no reason to vote against. It also repeated the guff about the acceptance of the Newco being a majority decision by the SPL Board rather than an 11-1 vote by member clubs.

I don't believe a word that Doncaster says. He kept telling us that agreement had been reached over a 10-team SPL when self-evidently it had not been.

Once Rangers have been ousted, Doncaster should be the next target.

Norwich have not looked back since he left them!

[ScottB]

According to the BBC yes. Two clubs would be promoted.

I think that one came straight from a Neil Doncaster press release. All designed to try and convince Hibs and Dunfermline to vote for a Newco as there would be no reason to vote against. It also repeated the guff about the acceptance of the Newco being a majority decision by the SPL Board rather than an 11-1 vote by member clubs.

I don't believe a word that Doncaster says. He kept telling us that agreement had been reached over a 10-team SPL when self-evidently it had not been.

Once Rangers have been ousted, Doncaster should be the next target.

Norwich have not looked back since he left them!

I'd love to see where that is in the rulebook...

This would be another club from a first division that is too weak to promote more than one club out of according to the powers that be is it? Stuff an nonsense, it really is.

If Rangers go bust mid season and can't play games, they simply have to be punted out. I suspect this is why the sweat will currently be pouring down Doncasters brow. The ability to keep them in the top league, already tenuous at best surely goes out the window if that happens...

[IndieHibby]

Anyone know what's about to be announced on SSN?

[TamHibs]

Anyone know what's about to be announced on SSN?

I would assume it will be to do with HMRC's attempts to gain an injunction to remove Duff & Phelps as Administators.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?xpnx5c

[greenginger]

According to the BBC yes. Two clubs would be promoted.

I think that one came straight from a Neil Doncaster press release. All designed to try and convince Hibs and Dunfermline to vote for a Newco as there would be no reason to vote against. It also repeated the guff about the acceptance of the Newco being a majority decision by the SPL Board rather than an 11-1 vote by member clubs.

I don't believe a word that Doncaster says. He kept telling us that agreement had been reached over a 10-team SPL when self-evidently it had not been.

Once Rangers have been ousted, Doncaster should be the next target.

Norwich have not looked back since he left them!

Clause H5 on page 68 of the SPL rules could not be any simplier and cannot be misinterpreted.

" If any Club in the league ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly. "

That is the situation if der Hun expires before the end of the Season.

[Lofarl]

May being the keyword in that rule.

[Spike Mandela]

Anyone know what's about to be announced on SSN?

Well? What was it?:cb

[stokesmessiah]

Well? What was it?:cb

Probably the usual from SSn..The Tea lady has just arrived with extra digestives which has been confiscated by D&P and put up on Ebay to increase revenue.

[Brando7]

Probably the usual from SSn..The Tea lady has just arrived with extra digestives which has been confiscated by D&P and put up on Ebay to increase revenue.

Did they no just pay her off to cover the weekends win bonus :greengrin

[greenginger]

May being the keyword in that rule.


I read it that the " may " word applies only to the expunging of the league record. If it were to apply to the relegation position a second

" may " would have been inserted in place of the word " shall " in the last line.

[WarringtonHibee]

A last heads up about the survey to do with a possible newco - it closes in 25 minutes, so this is a final push to get a few hundred more responses!

We've hit over 16,300 responses with a big fat 95% NO to Newco.

http://splsurvey.co.uk :agree: (http://splsurvey.co.uk)

[PaulSmith]

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restofeurope/100112/default.aspx

How it's dealt with in other countries.

[jonty]

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restofeurope/100112/default.aspx

How it's dealt with in other countries.
it was a slow day today
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?234315-4-top-flight-Swiss-teams-refused-licence-to-play-due-to-financial-concerns

:greengrin


I'm sure the courts have their reasons for letting mcduff and mcduffer continue the charade, but cmon. enough is enough.

[Seveno]

Breaking news .........

The Court of Session have instructed Duff & Phelps to consult with John Cleese.








Something to do with a parrot apparently.

[DH1875]

If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?

Not if it happens before the end of the season. It's in the rules :rules:. That's why they haven't pulled the plug on them yet. Get to the end of the season and the new co will be back in.

[CallumLaidlaw]

SPL take heed - Zurich, Young Boys, Sion and Servette refused licence to compete in Swiss league next season 4 financial irregularities. 5 days to appeal

[PaulSmith]

Keith Jackson says on sportsound that BTC is irrelevant and just goes into the cva pot. :)

[CropleyWasGod]

Keith Jackson says on sportsound that BTC is irrelevant and just goes into the cva pot. :)

That's my understanding :agree:

[jgl07]

Keith Jackson says on sportsound that BTC is irrelevant and just goes into the cva pot. :)

Is that the same Keith Jackson who wrote this article?

Craig Whyte profile: The Scots billionaire on the brink of taking over the club he loves

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2010/11/18/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-on-the-brink-of-taking-over-the-club-he-loves-86908-22722617/

"Today, aged just 39, this financial whizzkid from Motherwell stands on the brink of pulling off the biggest deal of his life - and finally bringing the curtain down on one of the longest-running sagas in Scottish football."


Scottish Football is safe with investigative journalists of the calibre of Keith Jackson on the case.

[Jack]

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restofeurope/100112/default.aspx

How it's dealt with in other countries.

The Swiss were taken to task big time by EUFA earlier in the season, see my posts on or around page 2 or so on this thread, he'll mend the SFA if they think they can ignore the rules.

I suppose it could go even further than the Swiss threatened suspension. If EUFA consider that the SFA are not fit a proper people to run the sport in this country a Team GB may be the only way back for Scottish clubs.

[ancient hibee]

Nobody in the media(what a surprise)is tackling the fact that the purpose of the administration is not for the benefit of the club but is firstly for the benefit of the creditors.I suppose duffers could argue that this is the case as they will be first in the lne for a payout.The point I'm trying to make is that duffers are really not acting in the best interests of the creditors.They should be gathering money in and be working a plan to distribute it.It doesn't matter who buys the business-it is the administrators who are in charge of the process.If I was a major creditor I would insist on the administrators carrying on until the transfer window opens and then insist on the sale of the entire playing staff.

[Matty_Jack04]

The American is waiting on the SFA to guarentee no further sanctions will be dealt out before making his bid concrete and the blue knights are still in talks with ticketus hence the no preferred bidder announced today

So if the American gets in you can bet your ass there won't be any newco in the 3rd division or any points/financial restraints either.

[hibeesdude]

P221/12 Pet: Rangers Football Club Plc for an Administration Order Biggart Baillie LLP Burness LLP

Starred Motion
Between 10.00am and 11.00am

this is on court list for 25th - now no idea what a starred motion is but does this just seek to be an extension to the existing administration or is it a standard update to the court???

[Kaiser1962]

Nobody in the media(what a surprise)is tackling the fact that the purpose of the administration is not for the benefit of the club but is firstly for the benefit of the creditors.I suppose duffers could argue that this is the case as they will be first in the lne for a payout.The point I'm trying to make is that duffers are really not acting in the best interests of the creditors.They should be gathering money in and be working a plan to distribute it.It doesn't matter who buys the business-it is the administrators who are in charge of the process.If I was a major creditor I would insist on the administrators carrying on until the transfer window opens and then insist on the sale of the entire playing staff.


:agree:

Its been hijacked as a means of abdicating responsibilty for gross financial mismanagement, particulary in football, and dumping a huge steaming pile of toxic debt at someone else's door. Someone else will pay.

A "pre pack" is designed for that purpose under the guise of basically "you lost the money anyway so you may as well let us continue".

[down-the-slope]

Clause H5 on page 68 of the SPL rules could not be any simplier and cannot be misinterpreted.

" If any Club in the league ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly. "

That is the situation if der Hun expires before the end of the Season.

We have had this discussion...maybe 78 pages back :wink:....the highlighted word is the key....plenty wriggle room there so that expunging MAY NOT happen and therefore no change to relegation position

[down-the-slope]

May being the keyword in that rule.

Horlicks...missed a whole page...not hard after 181 of them :greengrin

[greenginger]

We have had this discussion...maybe 78 pages back :wink:....the highlighted word is the key....plenty wriggle room there so that expunging MAY NOT happen and therefore no change to relegation position


Can't agree there. The expunging or not expunging of the playing record affects the other teams insofar that some clubs may have taken points off of the liquidated club and others may have taken none. Obviously it would be unfair on some clubs and advantageous to others if the record was wiped out hence the May word.
The liquidated club is no longer there so the relegation place from the league SHALL be reduced accordingly. They are separate issues.

[magpie1892]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9718

Banned for life from Scottish Football. Interesting.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9718

Banned for life from Scottish Football. Interesting.

.. and £200k in fines.

And £160k fines for the Huns.


Like those are going to be paid.:rolleyes:

[Lofarl]

So does that mean Craig Whyte has been fined 150K? I wonder how much he can punt der big hoose for.

[magpie1892]

.. and £200k in fines.

And £160k fines for the Huns.


Like those are going to be paid.:rolleyes:

Rangers are an establishment club of the utmost inegrity.

I ask that you withdraw your scurrilous slur.

[CropleyWasGod]

So does that mean Craig Whyte has been fined 150K? I wonder how much he can punt der big hoose for.

£200k. 4 x £50k :agree:

[magpie1892]

.. and £200k in fines.

And £160k fines for the Huns.


Like those are going to be paid.:rolleyes:

The 12-month signing ban is quite funny.

They're goosed. Totally goosed.

[CropleyWasGod]

The 12-month signing ban is quite funny.

They're goosed. Totally goosed.

Soooo...... if, as rumoured, some of the players who agreed wage cuts can walk away for nothing at the end of the season..... and they're not allowed to sign replacements.....

Goosed and gandered :agree:

[Sergio sledge]

This is interesting:


In addition, the Tribunal imposed a prohibition in terms of Article 94.1 and 95 of the Articles of Association, prohibiting Rangers FC for a period of 12 months from the date of determination from seeking registration with the Scottish FA of any player not currently with the club, excluding any player under the age of 18 years.

The articles refer to the 'Challenge cup' does this mean RFC can't sign any players, or only that they can't register new players for the cup? If it is a total signing ban then that's brilliant!:greengrin

[Seveno]

' In addition, the Tribunal imposed a prohibition in terms of Article 94.1 and 95 of the Articles of Association, prohibiting Rangers FC for a period of 12 months from the date of determination from seeking registration with the Scottish FA of any player not currently with the club.'

So if they do emerge from administration, but all their stars have deserted, they are totally stuffed.

[greenlex]

What did the link say? It seems to be down now:confused:

[Seveno]

Full text :

Disciplinary Proceedings OutcomeMonday, 23 April 2012
A Judicial Panel Tribunal convened to hear the cases against Rangers FC and Craig Whyte today concluded their findings and set out the following outcomes:

Name: Craig Whyte, Director, Rangers FC
Dates: 6th May 2011 to 6th March 2012
Disciplinary Rule(s) allegedly breached: Rules 66, 71 and 105
Outcomes:
The Tribunal found Craig Whyte guilty under Rule 66 and fined him £50,000.
The Tribunal returned a Not Proven verdict in respect of Rule 71.
The Tribunal found Craig Whyte guilty on three separate counts under Rule 105 and fined him £50,000 in respect of each breach.
The above sanctions shall be paid within 30 days, with interest of 4% per annum over the base lending rate of Bank of Scotland plc from the date of determination until paid.
Under Articles 94.1 and 95, the Tribunal expelled Craig Whyte for life from any participation in Association Football in Scotland.
Name: Rangers FC
Dates: 6th May 2011 to 6th March 2012
Disciplinary Rule(s) allegedly breached: Rules 1, 2, 14, 66, 71 and 325
Outcomes:
The Tribunal returned a verdict of Not Proven in respect of Rule 1.
The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 2 and imposed the maximum fine of £10,000 payable within 12 months.
The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 14 and imposed the maximum fine of £50,000 payable within 12 months
The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 66 and imposed the maximum fine of £100,000 payable within 12 months. In addition, the Tribunal imposed a prohibition in terms of Article 94.1 and 95 of the Articles of Association, prohibiting Rangers FC for a period of 12 months from the date of determination from seeking registration with the Scottish FA of any player not currently with the club, excluding any player under the age of 18 years.
The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty in respect of Rule 71 and imposed a censure.
The Tribunal found Rangers FC guilty of two breaches in respect of Rule 325 and imposed further censure.

Notes for Editors:
The Judicial Panel Tribunal shall issue a note of reasons in early course.
Both Rangers FC and Craig Whyte have a right of appeal against findings of guilt and any sanction imposed, within three days of receipt of note of reasons.
Explanatory Notes:

Rule 1 (b): All members shall:
(b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;

Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Staff and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.

Rule 14 (g): Full membership or associate membership may be suspended or terminated, or a fine may be issued, in any of the following circumstances:-

(g) where a full member or an associate member suffers or is subject to an insolvency event.

Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.
Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper.
Rule 105: Any Party who is subject to a Direction from a Tribunal must follow that Direction as so Directed by the Tribunal. Any Party who fails to do so, may be found to be in breach of this rule.
Rule 325: Failing to pay to [Dundee United FC] on the day of the match monies due under Rule 46 c (3) and e of the Scottish FA Cup Competition Rules; being [Dundee United’s] share of receipts for the match; and by failing to pay to the Scottish FA within three days monies due under Rule 46 c (1) of the Scottish FA’s Cup Competition Rules; being the Scottish FA’s levy on admission charges for the above match.
Article 94.1: The Judicial Panel shall have the power to fine, suspend, or expel or in relevant cases to eject from the Challenge Cup Competition or apply such other sanction as is provided for in the Judicial Panel Protocol any recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA who, in its opinion, in any way brings the game in to disrepute or is likely to bring the game into disrepute or on any other grounds it considers sufficient and of which, subject to the rights of appeal, it shall be the sole judge.
Article 95: The Judicial Panel shall have jurisdiction subject to the terms of the Judicial Panel Protocol to deal with any alleged infringement of any provision of these Articles. A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA if found to have infringed the Articles shall be liable to censure or to a fine or to a suspension or to an expulsion or to ejection from the Challenge Cup competition, to any combination of these penalties, or such other penalty, condition or sanction as the Judicial Panel considers appropriate, including such other sanctions as are contained within the Judicial Panel Protocol in order to deal justly with the case in question.

[CentreLine]

Under Articles 94.1 and 95, the Tribunal expelled Craig Whyte for life from any participation in Association Football in Scotland.

So who is guilty if CW remains 85% owner of Rangers. urely ownership = participation?

[magpie1892]

Soooo...... if, as rumoured, some of the players who agreed wage cuts can walk away for nothing at the end of the season..... and they're not allowed to sign replacements.....

Goosed and gandered :agree:

It's true. I'm not sure who, but there's about five of them that can walk under various scenarios (Whyte still being at the club, still in admin, stuff like that) and this number almost certainly identifies as McGregor, Whittaker, Naismith, Davis and Laffable. These were the players who needed to take wage cuts to keep the club afloat as they were on the biggest wedges.

Lose them and not be allowed (even if they had any money/still exist as a club) to sign replacements and it's a bottom-six club. Which will be delicious to see.

[CropleyWasGod]

Under Articles 94.1 and 95, the Tribunal expelled Craig Whyte for life from any participation in Association Football in Scotland.

So who is guilty if CW remains 85% owner of Rangers. urely ownership = participation?

He will have to sell his shares.... :cb

[magpie1892]

Under Articles 94.1 and 95, the Tribunal expelled Craig Whyte for life from any participation in Association Football in Scotland.

So who is guilty if CW remains 85% owner of Rangers. urely ownership = participation?

I'm sure I read somewhere that ownership ≠ participation.

It's not like CW will be hanging about anyhow.

[Frazerbob]

Will the signing ban cover "Rangers 1012" though? With Rangers FC going down the swanny an a matter of weeks, surely this 12 month ban is a nonsense.

[Seveno]

And still the investigation into dual contracts to be concluded by the SFA. What will the punishment be for that ? :greengrin

[magpie1892]

Will the signing ban cover "Rangers 1012" though? With Rangers FC going down the swanny an a matter of weeks, surely this 12 month ban is a nonsense.

Well, that's just it though. But if any newco is seen to be circumnavigating footballing punishments as well as stiffing the taxpayer and countless creditors it's going to make even more of a stink.

We're dreaming that these fines will be paid, or that hun will exist in its current form in 12 weeks, let alone 12 months, but I think these censures have made hun's overall situation worse. Which is to be applauded, obviously.

[Seveno]

Will the signing ban cover "Rangers 1012" though? With Rangers FC going down the swanny an a matter of weeks, surely this 12 month ban is a nonsense.

With UEFA breathing down their neck, I do not believe that the SFA will let Rangers or newco away with anything.

Someone call the undertaker.

[HibbyRod]

And still the investigation into dual contracts to be concluded by the SFA. What will the punishment be for that ? :greengrin

I thought it was the SPL that were conducting the investigation, and would then report to the SFA? :confused:

If so, does anyone know which stage it is at?

[CentreLine]

He will have to sell his shares.... :cb

And if he doesn't?

Or is the SFA still at it? Meaningless punishment placing a financial fine on a bankrupt club but having been seen to impose the maximum? Preparing the ground for Newco and forcing CW's hand getting him to sell? Without that sale things get very muddy for them, no?

[johnbc70]

Regards the fine for Craig Whyte then what powers do the SFA really have, I mean we all know he will not pay, but it's not like a parking fine or a court fine that if you do not pay you can go to prison. So really just a paper exercise as he will not pay and the SFA can do nothing to make him pay?

[CallumLaidlaw]

BBC journo says that it doesn't stop white being a shareholder, just a chairman, etc.

And any ban WILL transfer to a newco if SFA allow the license to be transferred to a newco

[CentreLine]

Regards the fine for Craig Whyte then what powers do the SFA really have, I mean we all know he will not pay, but it's not like a parking fine or a court fine that if you do not pay you can go to prison. So really just a paper exercise as he will not pay and the SFA can do nothing to make him pay?

Maybe the SFA could take the fine money from TV revenues etc for SC participaton?

[bringbackbenny]

The teddy bears on Rangers Media are taking it well ;-). Follow link at your own risk...

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217736&pid=1059973898&st=0&#entry1059973898

[magpie1892]

The swallow swallow thread on this is comedy gold.

[LancashireHibby]

"Speaking about the punishment, Whyte said: "Tell me how it is going to affect me? I couldn't care less. It makes no difference to my life whatsoever - and good luck collecting the money."

Has someone hacked the BBC website or has he actually said that?!

[Minder]

BBC journo says that it doesn't stop white being a shareholder, just a chairman, etc.

And any ban WILL transfer to a newco if SFA allow the license to be transferred to a newco

On the the 23rd April 2012, the Scottish Football Association finally appear to have grown some balls. There is hope for our game yet.

[Seveno]

The teddy bears on Rangers Media are taking it well ;-). Follow link at your own risk...

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217736&pid=1059973898&st=0&#entry1059973898

You have to applaud this poster for his remarkable insight :

' ****** them. No one likes us.'


:na na:

[Eyrie]

I think the Huns will appeal against the 12 month signing ban simply because they're going to lose so many players come the summer. That's the bit which will hit them hard. They're not going to be bothered about yet another liability to not pay.

And whether it's real or fake, the Whyte quote is very believable. He didn't even bother to put a case for a postponement to prepare a defence.

[Brando7]

Amazing news the BK & BM be pulling out tomorrow defo 12-month transfer embargo :thumbsup:

[Westie1875]

"Speaking about the punishment, Whyte said: "Tell me how it is going to affect me? I couldn't care less. It makes no difference to my life whatsoever - and good luck collecting the money."

Has someone hacked the BBC website or has he actually said that?!

Oh I hope so, between him and Vlad I don't know who I admire the most :greengrin :devil:

[cabbageandribs1875]

just whipped this from a thread on swallow swallow


http://forum.followfollow.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Enough is Enough
Liquidate the bloody club and leave the shi*ehole that is Scotland forever.
How can such a corrupt body run a sport.
Crooks and bigots in charge at SFA. Now it is totally clear.

They can all fe*k off. If any fan of Rangers goes to another away game, they need their head tested.


words fail me :greengrin


now they want to destroy the SFA, and everyone else :faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the Huns will appeal against the 12 month signing ban simply because they're going to lose so many players come the summer. That's the bit which will hit them hard. They're not going to be bothered about yet another liability to not pay.

And whether it's real or fake, the Whyte quote is very believable. He didn't even bother to put a case for a postponement to prepare a defence.

They are appealling....(cue the Carry On joke)

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2746199

[Caversham Green]

I'm sure I read somewhere that ownership ≠ participation.

It's not like CW will be hanging about anyhow.

I would say that ownership = control and control must = participation. I wonder if the SFA can enforce their fine given that CW has been banished. It's surely not a legal sanction so I reckon Whyte could just tell them to do one.

Assuming my first sentence is right this makes the administrators job a bit easier in the sense that they now have a solid argument that RFC's shares are worthless in CW's hands Rangers cannot exit administration as a football club as long as CW owns the club. On the other hand the signing embargo in particular means that the value is greatly reduced. I wonder if the fine becomes an administration debt - will the SFA only get keechpence in the pound if a CVA is achieved?

[PatHead]

I must admit I am shocked at the severity of the punishment. I didn't believe SFA would be so harsh. Didn't think they had it in them.

Sure they haven't sneaked in a penalty for the dual contracts as well or are they just trying to make us believe they are tough before letting us down?

[HibeeMG]

Cue another delay in naming a preferred bidder. All the while bringing Ra Peeple's Club closer to liquidation. All good! :aok:

[bringbackbenny]

You have to applaud this poster for his remarkable insight :

' ****** them. No one likes us.'


:na na:

This one is none too happy either


Complete non-co-operation with the SFA and/or the Scottish national team is the bare minimum I expect from our leaders from here on in.

F every one of them - and double f the Edinburgh ******* who led us to this dark place

Come in Agent Murray, your job is done

[CropleyWasGod]

I must admit I am shocked at the severity of the punishment. I didn't believe SFA would be so harsh. Didn't think they had it in them.

Sure they haven't sneaked in a penalty for the dual contracts as well or are they just trying to make us believe they are tough before letting us down?

The dual-contracts are being investigated by the SPL. The SFA will be the appeals body, IIRC.

[Northernhibee]

The teddy bears on Rangers Media are taking it well ;-). Follow link at your own risk...

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217736&pid=1059973898&st=0&#entry1059973898

"http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

You can't make this lot up.

Let them get on with it, cream always rises."

S*** floats

:lolrangers:

[SteveHFC]

Rangers Media can cheer you up :)

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217745

:faf:

[magpie1892]

I would say that ownership = control and control must = participation. I wonder if the SFA can enforce their fine given that CW has been banished. It's surely not a legal sanction so I reckon Whyte could just tell them to do one.

They can stop him being Chairman - that's effectively what they've done - but they can't force him to sell his shares. I'm reasonably confident that I'm right on this one. We shall see soon enough!

[greenginger]

BBC journo says that it doesn't stop white being a shareholder, just a chairman, etc.

And any ban WILL transfer to a newco if SFA allow the license to be transferred to a newco


But it won't transfer to Cowdenbeath F C AKA New Rangers F C :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

They can stop him being Chairman - that's effectively what they've done - but they can't force him to sell his shares. I'm reasonably confident that I'm right on this one. We shall see soon enough!

I think I'm with Cav on this one.

CW, with his shareholding, can virtually control anything the club does. He can hire and fire, set company policy, put it into administration......even pick the team :greengrin
That, to me, is participation.

[madabouthibs]

Can't help but feel that financial penalties are a complete waste of time, especially to a football club already on its knees regarding errr... finance!
Points sanctions, omission from competitions and player sanctions would be more favourable, and because of these sanctions the club would still be hit in the pocket, but other "Less corrupt" clubs would also benefit.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't help but feel that financial penalties are a complete waste of time, especially to a football club already on its knees regarding errr... finance!
Points sanctions, omission from competitions and player sanctions would be more favourable, and because of these sanctions the club would still be hit in the pocket, but other "Less corrupt" clubs would also benefit.

If they make it to next season, the chances are they will be docked 10 points. They have a transfer embargo, and they're banned from Europe.

So let's fine them an all....

[Bishop Hibee]

:singing:Celebrate good times, come on :singing: :partyhibb

Nice wee bedtime story! Well done the SFA :take that

[seanshow]

And still the investigation into dual contracts to be concluded by the SFA. What will the punishment be for that ? :greengrin

The SPL inquiry is ongoing apparently, The punishment if they were found in breach, who knows.

Rangers Tax Case


........and I did throw out some new information about the extent of Rangers’ use of the EBT scheme- How many players in the Rangers squad (1st team and subs) that won the SPL title on the last day of the season on 22 May 2005 had an EBT? That is correct- every single one of them.


After tonights news It looks like it's all over anyway, and won't be required.

[killie-hibby]

If liquidated, would Hibs or Dunfermline still be relegated?



Thanks to all who provided information on this post. I have sent an email to the SPL asking the same question. I will transcribe their response, if any, on this thread.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I think I'm with Cav on this one.

CW, with his shareholding, can virtually control anything the club does. He can hire and fire, set company policy, put it into administration......even pick the team :greengrin
That, to me, is participation.

From STV journo Grant Russell - Craig Whyte ban has no affect on his ability to continue to own shares in Rangers. Prohibits him being an office bearer, ie. chairman.

[CropleyWasGod]

The SPL inquiry is ongoing apparently, The punishment if they were found in breach, who knows.

Rangers Tax Case




After tonights news It looks like it's all over anyway, and won't be required.

I have to disagree on the last point.

If there is evidence of dual-contracts, those individuals responsible must be held to account. It would be inconsistent to hammer CW for his part in the RFC story, without hammering those who made a mess of things in the first place.

[CropleyWasGod]

From STV journo Grant Russell - Craig Whyte ban has no affect on his ability to continue to own shares in Rangers. Prohibits him being an office bearer, ie. chairman.

It's not the ownership per se that is the issue for me. It's the fact that it's an 83/85% ownership. Almost complete control.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Alex Thomson Is all over this already -
Absolutely incredible - RFC administrator seriously blaming CW for "bringing Rangers into disrepute". Thus ignoring the EBT years...

This will play seriously badly with HMRC I'm being told

[Minder]

Courtesy of Kerrydale Street - an insight to next season.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o517/photogheek/4f93fb67.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

Alex Thomson Is all over this already -
Absolutely incredible - RFC administrator seriously blaming CW for "bringing Rangers into disrepute". Thus ignoring the EBT years...

This will play seriously badly with HMRC I'm being told

What will? The sanctions, the admins response, or what AT has said?

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217763&pid=1059974351&st=0&#entry1059974351

Oh Dear :faf::faf::faf:

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm not ashamed to say,... i actually felt some involuntary movements down below whilst reading threads on that rangersmedia site



and now it's crashed like swallow swallow :( damn

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217769

March on Cup Final Day

[Saorsa]

:faf: :faf:


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies 2/bluebearsurrender.gif

[CallumLaidlaw]

What will? The sanctions, the admins response, or what AT has said?

That bit was still part of Alex thomsons tweets. That was all he wrote

[CropleyWasGod]

That bit was still part of Alex thomsons tweets. That was all he wrote

Ah okay.... don't understand what he means then. It's late :greengrin

[Elephant Stone]

Looks like they're wanting to disrupt the final. They can't die soon enough.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://forum.followfollow.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: 25 000 rangers fans march to hamden park on the morning of the cup final
The police already have an absolute nightmare to deal with on the Cup final day. Let's make it even worse for them. Not by causing trouble. Just our presence will be enough to make their ***** start flapping when they have hibs and hearts fans to deal with.




quick solution to that, play at murrayfield instead :wink::greengrin

[silverhibee]

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2459424.jpg

[CallumLaidlaw]

Doesn't get any better for Rangers fans. Sun splashing in morning that Kyle Lafferty suspended by club following altercation with McCoist. Lafferty reportedly suspended for 2 weeks and banned from attending games. Also allegation operations on hernia cancelled twice.

[Saorsa]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/hunscoffin.gif

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217752:faf::lolrangers::lolran gers:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Doesn't get any better for Rangers fans. Sun splashing in morning that Kyle Lafferty suspended by club following altercation with McCoist. Lafferty reportedly suspended for 2 weeks and banned from attending games. Also allegation operations on hernia cancelled twice.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4275354/Crock-Kyle-gets-the-boot-after-Coisty-bust-up.html

[frazeHFC]

Regarding their planned march to Hampden......the hun love is fully intact i see:

"police wont allow it. nor should we ruin hearts day out at the final."

:hilarious

[jgl07]

From STV journo Grant Russell - Craig Whyte ban has no affect on his ability to continue to own shares in Rangers. Prohibits him being an office bearer, ie. chairman.

Is he any relation to Russell Grant?

[ScottB]

Woah, who at Hampden reached down and found a pair tucked away?

So, let me get this straight, surely this 12 month transfer ban totally torpedoes any newco? As Rangers 2012 would need the current clubs license, complete with ban, but would therefore surely be unable to take on any of the current player contracts of anyone over 18, as all the contract contracts would be voided by the liquidation process?

Given this punishment, one can only wonder what would be handed down for the dual contracts scandal if proven.

It would seem their only options now are a newco starting from the bottom of the pile of buying another club. Assuming they find anyone with the cash to actually back up their claims...


Also an interesting test case for the Mad One next time he goes off on one about the SFA... :wink:

[stokesmessiah]

I think that might be the blow that will end RFC.

[jgl07]

I think that might be the blow that will end RFC.

One down and one to go!

[SouthEnglandHib]

Can not be sure about details and truth, but all I can see around my Twitter is..

Rangers fans protesting outside Hampden on Cup Final day..

Anyone know anything?

[HibeeMG]

Can not be sure about details and truth, but all I can see around my Twitter is..

Rangers fans protesting outside Hampden on Cup Final day..

Anyone know anything?

I wouldn't worry about it. It won't happen.

'Ordinary' (if there's such a thing!) Rangers fans would shi** themselves when thinking about confronting 40 odd thousand Hibs and Hearts fans. The ICF thugs won't give a toss about 'their' club to bother about a protest.

[frazeHFC]

Its all over rangers media and spreading onto social networking sites. We hear of planned protests that never happen but yeah the plan this time is a march to spoil the SFAs 'showpiece'.

One hun: "police wont allow it. nor should we ruin hearts day out at the final." Hunnery love......

[stokesmessiah]

In the Sun, comments accredit to the yank trying to buy RFC..


“I will leave it to Duff & Phelps to determine when they want to identify their preferred bidder.“Until then, I am moving forward.“I will meet Ally McCoist to discuss his recommendations regarding players at the club.”

Is he for real?

[HibeesLA]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217763&pid=1059974351&st=0&#entry1059974351

Oh Dear :faf::faf::faf:

an absolute gem:

"Never walk out on the players during a game. Walk out on them after the game."

I must have been protesting every time I went to a Hibs game then, as I usually walked out after the game!

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217769&pid=1059974460&st=0&#entry1059974460

[Iain G]

So they are financially screwed, yet can afford to send coaches to NZ and afford to get two young NZ players over to Glasgow for a trial? Hope they have their return tickets in their hands in case liquidation happens, hate for these poor lads to get stuck in Glasgow! Should they be allowed to entice young players to the club under current circumstances???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/hutt-news/sport/6795556/Hutt-pair-win-Glasgow-Rangers-trial?comment_msg=posted#post_comment

[Haymaker]

Will be ****ing carnage if they do.

[LamontHFC©]

" I'm up for going to war right now! Cannot express in work how angry I feel! No ****ing surrender! With a rifle or a pistol in my hand! "


What an utterly horrible establishment.

[rossi]

What are they meant to be protesting against?

[rossi]

Just looked at the Hun forum. I hadn't realised that it was the other scottish clubs fault that they're millions of pounds in debt.

[rossi]

What are they meant to be protesting against?

[Haymaker]

What are they meant to be protesting against?

The treatment their club has received.

[The Green Goblin]

The treatment their club has received.

Ah but according to the media pundits and papers and powers that be, we all need them, don't you see? We'll be in trouble without their cheating, low-life, arrogant, bigoted filth gracing our towns and stadiums week in week out.

Yup...

[PeeJay]

Breaking news : Whyte suspended sine die and transfer embargo for 12 months...(sorry if already posted)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17821054

[Onion]

Breaking news : Whyte suspended sine die and transfer embargo for 12 months...(sorry if already posted)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17821054

Oh dear, that's the SFA added to their list of "those peepul we'll remember that kicked us while we're down". They really are a naive bunch of weasels. This is just the start. Wait until the sh*t really hits the fans and they go bust :greengrin

[Beefster]

Does the transfer embargo include extending contracts of over-18 players? Not that I have any idea if any are out of contract this summer so it may not make a difference.

[joe breezy]

Are there any Rangers players that could do us a job?

There may be a few looking for work soon...

[John_the_angus_hibby]

They can sign infer 18s and resign existing players.


Sent from another universe!

[Part/Time Supporter]

Woah, who at Hampden reached down and found a pair tucked away?

So, let me get this straight, surely this 12 month transfer ban totally torpedoes any newco? As Rangers 2012 would need the current clubs license, complete with ban, but would therefore surely be unable to take on any of the current player contracts of anyone over 18, as all the contract contracts would be voided by the liquidation process?

Given this punishment, one can only wonder what would be handed down for the dual contracts scandal if proven.

It would seem their only options now are a newco starting from the bottom of the pile of buying another club. Assuming they find anyone with the cash to actually back up their claims...


Also an interesting test case for the Mad One next time he goes off on one about the SFA... :wink:

Independent judicial panel. No SFA officials in sight.

[shagpile]

Independent judicial panel. No SFA officials in sight.

Had there been an SFA official in sight, you can bet your last buck each indictment would have that very Scottish of verdicts'not proven'!

[Hibrandenburg]

I should not read this thread in bed. Produced a real diamond cutter it has :-)

[matty_f]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!


:faf: :faf: :faf:

[pacorosssco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOx6zvWsLV0

[northgreen24]

Whyte added: "It's a joke, a complete joke. They've never spoken to me.

"[Chief executive] Stewart Regan and [president] Campbell Ogilvie had dinner with me in November and they told me it wouldn't be a problem"



o dear looks like the boys club had no say this time:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[steakbake]

So apparently Whyte got assurances from Regan and Ogilvie over dinner in November that nothing would happen?

Once all this has been sorted out, surely the actions of some of these figures needs to be the subject of an enquiry?

[The Falcon]

I would say that ownership = control and control must = participation. I wonder if the SFA can enforce their fine given that CW has been banished. It's surely not a legal sanction so I reckon Whyte could just tell them to do one.

Assuming my first sentence is right this makes the administrators job a bit easier in the sense that they now have a solid argument that RFC's shares are worthless in CW's hands Rangers cannot exit administration as a football club as long as CW owns the club. On the other hand the signing embargo in particular means that the value is greatly reduced. I wonder if the fine becomes an administration debt - will the SFA only get keechpence in the pound if a CVA is achieved?


I think I'm with Cav on this one.

CW, with his shareholding, can virtually control anything the club does. He can hire and fire, set company policy, put it into administration......even pick the team :greengrin
That, to me, is participation.


Accountants ! Pah! :greengrin

There are ways round everything and I dont think this makes any material difference to CW's position. How many times have you guys, in your combined (many:greengrin) years, came across a disqualified director who is still running a company with some obscure ******ed relative as the actual MD?

IMO CW is the fall guy who never intended to be there for the long haul anyway. If they can get the CVA approved, which has been the only feasible route mentioned by anyone since day one, his role is complete.

[PaulSmith]

So apparently Whyte got assurances from Regan and Ogilvie over dinner in November that nothing would happen?

Once all this has been sorted out, surely the actions of some of these figures needs to be the subject of an enquiry?

Erm, remember this is Craig Whyte making these statements ;)

[steakbake]

Erm, remember this is Craig Whyte making these statements ;)

Rats always turn on each other. If he's 'going down', I'm sure he'll be determined to take others with him.

[Hibrandenburg]

Erm, remember this is Craig Whyte making these statements ;)

No smoke without fire!

[Www1875hfc]

Here's a disgruntled Huns reply to the sanctions handed out by the SFA

Absolute ****ing joke. Surely to **** there must just be an away boycott against ALL scottish clubs and withdrawal from the scottish cup. Refusal to accept ANY tv deal involving our clubs image rights and refusal to work with any sponsors of the SFA OR the SPL. Hit them all in the ****ing pocket and noone will be signing anyone. They will go into administration, be sanctioned like us and scottish football will buckle

Something tells me there not very happy. :greengrin
Now they blame everyone else for the mismanagement,and are planning a protest march to Hampden on cup final day.

Aye very good Rangers,ma heart bleeds for you so it does,hope you get everything that comes your way +interest :greengrin

Now all we need is Campbell Ogilvie's involvement with Hearts investigated. :aok:

[Jack]

So apparently Whyte got assurances from Regan and Ogilvie over dinner in November that nothing would happen?

Once all this has been sorted out, surely the actions of some of these figures needs to be the subject of an enquiry?

More succulent lamb and fine wine I wouldn't wonder.

Just follow followed a few links to HM Rangers Media.

I don't know where to begin.

Might go to international matches now that none of them are going - maybe I'll still have to wait for Harry Potter to do one too.

Lots of nominees being proposed for the RM naughty step.

Loved those suggesting none of their players should play for the national side - they'll have no one worth selecting.

No surprise at the number of death threats being made.

A march to Hampden on Sunday, and chorus after chorus of their melodic singalong songs.

They're spelling and grammur is worse than on here - and what's left of bebo.

I wonder if there's already an increase at the A&E departments around Scotland? Certainly more than a few hissy fits.

Oh and they were a asking how anyone could treat such a fine (not sure if that's a £160k or a £200k fine) upstanding institution in such a way. One of them even mentioned morals.

[Winston Ingram]

Up until this I thought it was an absolute cert that the spineless, money grabbing, short term twats in charge of the other SPL clubs would buckle and shuffle them back into the SPL.

Perhaps not:I'm waiti

[Newry Hibs]

Putting my very cynical head on which is basically that nothing is done here that can't be a way of helping Rangers .....

Does the 160k fine just make the SFA another non-HMRC creditor and so push HMRC towards sub 25%, so a CVA is easier?

The transfer ban - maybe the powers that be want to be seen to be doing something, so have asked RFC if they believe their youngsters are good enough to stay in in SPL, albeit in the bottom half, for a year. The caveat being that if they are really struggling, they could appeal the ban in time for it to be reduced in time for January so they can get a few guys in to save them.

If Sky want to keep their '4 games a year' deal, but it's possible that RFC are bottom 6, then maybe - oooh what a coincidence - there is a cup tie tha could be shown?

I just can't help think that in 1 year's time RFC will be doing OK.

[down-the-slope]

dash...went to bed early and missed the chance to read the latest....now late for work having had to catch up.....

I get the impression that the message is getting through to the powers that be that the rules have to be enforced..12 month transfer embargo is a real body blow...not only does it sink them but it protects them scavenging other clubs in Scotlands decent players....(make sure our decent U18's are on watertight contracts Rodders)

So long as this ban goes with the licence...and not the club...then there only way out is to try and buy a lower league club...

Anyway the chances of preserving their 'history looks shot.....


You... have got.. no history

Its enough to make my heart go..oh oh oh oh :whistle:

[lapsedhibee]

Does anyone know what the Fine Red was that usually accompanied the Succulent Lamb? :dunno:

I think I might save up and get a bottle ready to celebrate the great day when it arrives. :greengrin

[Beefster]

Up until this I thought it was an absolute cert that the spineless, money grabbing, short term twats in charge of the other SPL clubs would buckle and shuffle them back into the SPL.

Perhaps not:I'm waiti

Let's wait for the appeal first. I can see the transfer embargo changing to the summer only or being dropped completely.

[magpie1892]

Does anyone know what the Fine Red was that usually accompanied the Succulent Lamb? :dunno:

I think I might save up and get a bottle ready to celebrate the great day when it arrives. :greengrin

At the dinner in question, a nice Claret was served.

You can get a decent Claret from about a tenner up (and up) so you need not save for long.

[ancienthibby]

Does anyone know what the Fine Red was that usually accompanied the Succulent Lamb? :dunno:

I think I might save up and get a bottle ready to celebrate the great day when it arrives. :greengrin

Can only be Chateneauf du Pape!!:greengrin