Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Onceinawhile]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-offered-his-shares-to-ashley-at-meeting-on-june-12th/


Philmac .. whateverhisnameis now saying King has tried to flog his shares to Ashley.

Hilarious if true ! a big if , I know. :greengrin

no chance that’s true. The boy is a fantasist.

[Keith_M]

I'd have expected a press release through The Succulent Lamb Media by now with news of how well the Season Tickets are selling, in answer to their saviour Dave King's call to arms.


Could it be that The Gullible are not quite as gullible as King had hoped?

:hmmm:

[Jim44]

I'd have expected a press release through The Succulent Lamb Media by now with news of how well the Season Tickets are selling, in answer to their saviour Dave King's call to arms.


Could it be that The Gullible are not quite as gullible as King had hoped?

:hmmm:

Judging by some of the posts on FF, it would, unfortunately, appear that STs are selling like hot cakes. Is it not wishful thinking that all has gone tits up?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Judging by some of the posts on FF, it would, unfortunately, appear that STs are selling like hot cakes. Is it not wishful thinking that all has gone tits up?

Posts on FF said tickets for ours, Queens and motherwells playoff game were close to sellout. In reality, there were tens of thousands of unsold tickets.

[Iain G]

no chance that’s true. The boy is a fantaist.

Who King or Phillmygoblin?

[JeMeSouviens]

The guy played the entire season in the English Championship; a sight higher than the level we're at. I wouldn't be so quick to mock -Fontaine, for example, came from the league below that.

Correction- he played 14 games and is currently recovering from his 2nd knee op of 2015. Not saying he's a gamble that won't work out but he's a big gamble.

[Onceinawhile]

Who King or Phillmygoblin?

Both. Though I meant Phil Mckracken.

No one has denied it which means it's true. Either that it or isn't being dignified with a response.

[Ozyhibby]

Both. Though I meant Phil Mckracken.

No one has denied it which means it's true. Either that it or isn't being dignified with a response.

Given the damage he does to their reputation, it's very much in Rangers interest to shut him up at the earliest opportunity. That they have not been able to do so is interesting.
He is a terrible writer, has multiple chips on his shoulder, hates Scotland and is clearly obsessed with all things Rangers but he has been able report the Sevco story as well as any mainstream journalist. Just because he is a sad little man does not make him wrong.

[oneone73]

Correction- he played 14 games and is currently recovering from his 2nd knee op of 2015. Not saying he's a gamble that won't work out but he's a big gamble.

Point taken. Still think he could be a decent signing for them though.

[jacomo]

Given the damage he does to their reputation, it's very much in Rangers interest to shut him up at the earliest opportunity. That they have not been able to do so is interesting.
He is a terrible writer, has multiple chips on his shoulder, hates Scotland and is clearly obsessed with all things Rangers but he has been able report the Sevco story as well as any mainstream journalist. Just because he is a sad little man does not make him wrong.

Doesn't make him right either, though. He might be on the money this time but best to be sceptical I think.

[AndyM_1875]

no chance that’s true. The boy is a fantaist.

Correct. The article, like most of his stuff is total mince.

[Hank Schrader]

Correct. The article, like most of his stuff is total mince.

He comes across as a smug roaster too. His overuse of the word "apropos" is actually embarrassing.

[Keith_M]

Does Phil MaGobin at any point explain how he could possibly know what was said in a meeting attended only by Dave King, Mike Ashley and two of Ashley's minions?

[CropleyWasGod]

Does Phil MaGobin at any point explain how he could possibly know what was said in a meeting attended only by Dave King, Mike Ashley and two of Ashley's minions?
He says that MA taped it.

[Keith_M]

He says that MA taped it.


And then gave the tape to Phil MaGobin?


Why would he wanna do that?

[AndyM_1875]

And then gave the tape to Phil MaGobin?


Why would he wanna do that?

Ashley wouldn't. Whatever people think of him he's a very private man both personally and in business. If he had taped any conversation with King he's hardly likely to shove it on the internet. Ashley can still make money out of Rangers for Sports Direct and whilst there is the chance of that he's not going to destroy any chance of working with the board.

Phil meanwhile trawls Celtic Forums and takes flyers on rumours (the more hysterical the better) and it's refreshing to see posters on here calling him out for the absolute spoofer that he is.

[hibees 7062]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/s480x480/11535900_1653469844885122_7803474886319138262_n.jp g?oh=fbfb445617cd61884ecf9960af52cd3b&oe=562D1101

[CallumLaidlaw]

What does this say? http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/779251676?-11344:801:0

I cant open it at work.

[Callum_62]

What does this say? http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/779251676?-11344:801:0

I cant open it at work.

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

[high bee]

What does this say? http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/779251676?-11344:801:0

I cant open it at work.

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

[high bee]

You wait for a bus and three come along at once!

[CallumLaidlaw]

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

They really are unbelievable eh.

[Jim44]

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

Reading this gives the impression that things are hotting up to something concrete on the SA front, till you see the reference to 'Ibroxnoise'. Even the Sevco punters take no heed of this group so I would take everything they say with a ton of salt.

[JimBHibees]

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

Dear oh dear surely the most tenuous link to a supposed transfer ever. Sherlock Holmes doesnt have a look in on this guy.:greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

Warburton on Sky Sports News saying that Scott Allen is one of a 100 players given to them and that talks are ongoing regarding transfers. Hard to say whether he was referring specifically to SA or players in general

[CallumLaidlaw]

Warburton on Sky Sports News saying that Scott Allen is one of a 100 players offered to them and that talks are ongoing regarding transfers. Hard to say whether he was referring specifically to SA or players in general

Why on earth would he be "offered" to them????

[Winston Ingram]

Why on earth would he be "offered" to them????

Likely be an agent

[w pilton hibby]

Why on earth would he be "offered" to them????

From Sky Sports

"Scott Allan of Hibs is another one I've been alerted to but he is just one of 100 players given to us and right now it's about us doing our homework and we have to create an environment here where talented players want to come and play for Rangers".

[StevieC]

Why on earth would he be "offered" to them????

If he's asked for a move (not necessarily with the club) then his agent will be "offering" him to a few teams. The agent wouldn't be worth his commission if he wasn't.

[MKHIBEE]

Warburton on Sky Sports News saying that Scott Allen is one of a 100 players given to them and that talks are ongoing regarding transfers. Hard to say whether he was referring specifically to SA or players in general

i have listened to the interview again and replaced offered with given.

[CallumLaidlaw]

From Sky Sports

"Scott Allan of Hibs is another one I've been alerted to but he is just one of 100 players given to us and right now it's about us doing our homework and we have to create an environment here where talented players want to come and play for Rangers".

makes more sense. Can just be talking about TheRangers scouts.

[green day]

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account..

But left on the picture of him in a Hibs strip?

How desperate are they..........

[CallumLaidlaw]

@STVRaman: #Rangers manager Mark Warburton closing in on signing targets. Danny Wilson undergoing a medical this avo and Rob Kiernan finalising deal.

[Deansy]

Scott Allan has today dropped the biggest hint yet that he is no longer a Hibernian player by removing the club’s name from his official Twitter account.

As is well known he is under massive interest from Rangers and Celtic, and Ibroxnoise.co.uk sources have confirmed that Hibs tried to offer him a substantial wage increase and two-year extension.

Today’s developments suggest he has rejected that, and it now comes down to a straight choice between the two Old Firm clubs.

One source claimed he made a verbal agreement with Celtic manager Ronny Deila a week or so ago, but has yet to agree terms or finalise the deal (this information supposedly came from a current Rangers player), while others have confirmed the asking price has increased to £1.2M and Rangers may be priced out.

Rangers have reportedly initiated contact with Hibernian, and with Allan a boyhood fan, he will hope the Ibrox men can stump up enough cash and offer an incentive to make him choose the Championship for another year over the SPL and guaranteed European football with Celtic.

It (Ibrox Noise) also says about itself -

'With the site running for almost four years, it has found a global audience and traffic has increased almost exponentially'

7 articles in one month have 'Globally attracted' an overall sum of 101 comments - probably, like any other Hun-related site, wishful-thinking.

[Bostonhibby]

It (Ibrox Noise) also says about itself -

'With the site running for almost four years, it has found a global audience and traffic has increased almost exponentially'

7 articles in one month have 'Globally attracted' an overall sum of 101 comments - probably, like any other Hun-related site, wishful-thinking.

:greengrin As many as that? wow - I am assuming the "noise" is more of a wet fart.

Maybe he means a "globular" audience? it seems more likely.

[JimBHibees]

@STVRaman: #Rangers manager Mark Warburton closing in on signing targets. Danny Wilson undergoing a medical this avo and Rob Kiernan finalising deal.

Danny Wilson is leaving Hearts where he led the team to a league title to go to Rangers in the division below. Doesnt make much sense though in saying that think he is bang average.

[Ozyhibby]

Danny Wilson is leaving Hearts where he led the team to a league title to go to Rangers in the division below. Doesnt make much sense though in saying that think he is bang average.

Keatings done the same.

[Golden Bear]

Danny Wilson is leaving Hearts where he led the team to a league title to go to Rangers in the division below. Doesnt make much sense though in saying that think he is bang average.

:agree:

He must be a true blue.

[greenginger]

@STVRaman: #Rangers manager Mark Warburton closing in on signing targets. Danny Wilson undergoing a medical this avo and Rob Kiernan finalising deal.


How old is Danny Wilson ? Any chance Sevco might have to pay Diedco a training fee ! :greengrin

[Gus]

Stevie May on loan to the Huns I've seen touted also

[IanM]

I can't add a pic on my phone unless I start a new thread but Scott Allan's Twitter picture is him in his Hibs top.. Nice try

[Greencore]

I can't add a pic on my phone unless I start a new thread but Scott Allan's Twitter picture is him in his Hibs top.. Nice try
It was his discription not photo they were on about.

[JimBHibees]

Keatings done the same.

Keatings was more of a fringe player though he was their captain.

[Deansy]

Danny Wilson is leaving Hearts where he led the team to a league title to go to Rangers in the division below. Doesnt make much sense though in saying that think he is bang average.

Maybe he likes the 'Hun Payment System' -

15054

[IanM]

It was his discription not photo they were on about.

Ahhh... Didn't read it properly but the Hibs top is the first thing you see

[AlbertK86]

:agree: He must be a true blue.

Danny grew up a Celtic fan

His dad played for Celtic and is and always has been a Celtic fan

[Jim44]

Danny grew up a Celtic fan

His dad played for Celtic and is and always has been a Celtic fan

If so, and even in this day and age, this 'stigma' will surface and work against him at Sevco. Somewhere in the murky depths of the FF discussion about Warburton there was some references to having done sufficient homework on him to ensure he had no Celic 'leanings'.

[Nutmegged]

Danny grew up a Celtic fan

His dad played for Celtic and is and always has been a Celtic fan
Did his dad play for Celtic? Who is his Dad?

[Keith_M]

If so, and even in this day and age, this 'stigma' will surface and work against him at Sevco. Somewhere in the murky depths of the FF discussion about Warburton there was some references to having done sufficient homework on him to ensure he had no Celic 'leanings'.


I understand that the intense research gave this photo a thumbs up (due to the labelling)


15059

[AlbertK86]

Did his dad play for Celtic? Who is his Dad?

Made one first team appearance years ago in goals

[Nutmegged]

Made one first team appearance years ago in goals

Thanks, who is his dad?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Their turnover isn't 4 times what ours is.It won't be much more than double.


I very much doubt it.

Have a read of the accounts and reports that I posted a link to. :wink:

Apparently Wilson is on £8k a week, rising to £10k if they get promoted, and Eustace is being offered £10k a week. Proof that no matter what their turnover is, they really don't care and will continue to overspend.

[Keith_M]

Apparently Wilson is on £8k a week, rising to £10k if they get promoted, and Eustace is being offered £10k a week. Proof that no matter what their turnover is, they really don't care and will continue to overspend.


:agree:


I made the point previously that it may be better for Hibs if The Rangers get promoted, and was duly called a panic merchant.

My preference was purely based on the fact that The Rangers would most likely spend a lot more than the likes of Motherwell to get out of this division and that seems to have been proven already. Not having the money has never stopped them before.

[CallumLaidlaw]

:agree:


I made the point previously that it may be better for Hibs if The Rangers get promoted, and was duly called a panic merchant.

My preference was purely based on the fact that The Rangers would most likely spend a lot more than the likes of Motherwell to get out of this division and that seems to have been proven already. Not having the money has never stopped them before.

Yeah I was the same. Always preferred Motherwell. Great laughing at Rangers misfortune but I was thinking solely from a Hibs point of view. They were never going to be as bad as they were last season, and they were only 3 points behind us.

[Geo_1875]

:agree:


I made the point previously that it may be better for Hibs if The Rangers get promoted, and was duly called a panic merchant.

My preference was purely based on the fact that The Rangers would most likely spend a lot more than the likes of Motherwell to get out of this division and that seems to have been proven already. Not having the money has never stopped them before.

They will continue spending lots of other peoples money. However, They're paying £8-10k to players who aren't worth half that. And Eustace is 35 FFS. He's here for a pension not a promotion.

[Jim44]

:agree:


I made the point previously that it may be better for Hibs if The Rangers get promoted, and was duly called a panic merchant.

My preference was purely based on the fact that The Rangers would most likely spend a lot more than the likes of Motherwell to get out of this division and that seems to have been proven already. Not having the money has never stopped them before.

I was on the fence at the time of the playoffs. My head said it would be easier for us to put up a more sustained challenge against Motherwell but my heart wanted to see Sevco come a cropper. The novelty of that has now worn off and I'm beginning to wonder if Sevco's indiscriminate spending will guarantee them automatic promotion.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Surely these kind of wages are a last desperate throw of the dice, and failure to win promotion again would result in another financial meltdown?

[phoenixfire]

Serious question
Which of their three signings to date should set our alarm bells ringing.

[Kojock]

Yeah I was the same. Always preferred Motherwell. Great laughing at Rangers misfortune but I was thinking solely from a Hibs point of view. They were never going to be as bad as they were last season, and they were only 3 points behind us.

And we will also be stronger and better than last year. :agree:

[S4uzee]

Serious question
Which of their three signings to date should set our alarm bells ringing.

Very true. IMO Wilson is very overrated. Farid had him in the 2 derbies he played, scoring twice.

[BH Hibs]

:agree:I made the point previously that it may be better for Hibs if The Rangers get promoted, and was duly called a panic merchant. My preference was purely based on the fact that The Rangers would most likely spend a lot more than the likes of Motherwell to get out of this division and that seems to have been proven already. Not having the money has never stopped them before.I see your point however they appear to be vastly overspending to entice players to play for them rather than what they are worth. By that I mean I dont think Wilson is worth half of that and he doesn't suddenly become twice the player because he's paid twice his worth. It's a further recipe for disaster and FWIW I'd much rather have Fontaine and Hanlon than what they are signing.

[Big_Franck]

The new rangers have a long way to go before anyone in the championship should be fearing them. Warburton has talked about bringing in 4/5 players. If they only bring in 5 players this summer we´ll have a stronger squad IMO. Looking at their squad just now it´s horrible.

Goalkeepers
Cammy Bell

Defenders
Marius Zaliukas
Darren McGregor
Lee Wallace
Danny Wilson
Rob Kiernan

Midfielders
Nicky Law
Robbie Crawford
Andy Murdoch
David Templeton
Fraser Aird
Dean Shiels

Forwards
Tom Walsh
Calum Gallagher
Kenny Miller
Nicky Clark

They´ll have to sign a lot more players, and of a better quality than Danny Wilson or Rob Kiernan, before we´ll have anything to fear.

[Keith_M]

Serious question
Which of their three signings to date should set our alarm bells ringing.


IMO, all three of them.

Not based on their abilities (although all three are decent players for this level of football) but because they have demonstrated that they are willing to spend silly money in their quest to get promoted.

I'm not saying that guarantees them promotion, but a relegated club like Motherwell would most likely have been forced to have a clear out and now be recruiting from the bargain basement.

[Jim44]

Serious question
Which of their three signings to date should set our alarm bells ringing.


Very true. IMO Wilson is very overrated. Farid had him in the 2 derbies he played, scoring twice.

Serious answer. Rermember that players don't necessarily stay the same standard of player no matter who they play for. A decent player at one club can become an excellent player at another club if conditions are right. I'm not ready to knock the effect that Warburton might have on the future of Sevco and I'm not daft enough to think that all his recruits will be mediocre forever.

[HappyHanlon]

Serious question
Which of their three signings to date should set our alarm bells ringing.

Would take Eustace in a heartbeat.

Other two, nah!

[CropleyWasGod]

Apparently Wilson is on £8k a week, rising to £10k if they get promoted, and Eustace is being offered £10k a week. Proof that no matter what their turnover is, they really don't care and will continue to overspend.
Is there a credible source for these figures?

[Ozyhibby]

Is there a credible source for these figures?

Exactly. I very much doubt they are paying anything like that for these players. They are just not at that level.
Wilson is decent but was only earning £1500 pw at Hearts and when he announced he was leaving most Yams were not that fussed either way. If he has got a deal like that at Ibrox then fair play to him and I hope he thanks his agent properly.

[Deansy]

Lets be honest, the Hun will spend any amount of money it wants to as, has been proved, no-one will stand in their way. Neither the GFA or law-enforement will even look their way at any questionable moves they make. King not having any scrutiny fromj the markets only makes it easier for him to do what the Hun are famous for - all-things illegal and immoral !!. That club is FOR crooks and it's RUN by crooks - hopefully we and the other clubs use that fact as incentive to ram the s*um in every single game !!

[Mikey09]

In my opinion you can spend as much dosh as you want on players... The obvious secret is it's got to be the right players. Danny Wilson- average. Eustace - nearly 36 and not kicked a ball for months due to serious knee damage. The lad Kiernan I have no idea. The first two don't exactly have me worried. So crack on The Rangers... Keep spending vast sums on bang average players!! :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

The new rangers have a long way to go before anyone in the championship should be fearing them. Warburton has talked about bringing in 4/5 players. If they only bring in 5 players this summer we´ll have a stronger squad IMO. Looking at their squad just now it´s horrible.

Goalkeepers
Cammy Bell

Defenders
Marius Zaliukas
Darren McGregor
Lee Wallace
Danny Wilson
Rob Kiernan

Midfielders
Nicky Law
Robbie Crawford
Andy Murdoch
David Templeton
Fraser Aird
Dean Shiels

Forwards
Tom Walsh
Calum Gallagher
Kenny Miller
Nicky Clark

They´ll have to sign a lot more players, and of a better quality than Danny Wilson or Rob Kiernan, before we´ll have anything to fear.

Persistent rumours that Wallace and Law will be away as well.

[Spike Mandela]

Persistent rumours that Wallace and Law will be away as well.

Lee Wallace breaking into Scotland squad shows some loyalty to Sevco and spenf 4 years in lower leagues. What a waste of a career. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he moved.

[CropleyWasGod]

Lets be honest, the Hun will spend any amount of money it wants to as, has been proved, no-one will stand in their way. Neither the GFA or law-enforement will even look their way at any questionable moves they make. King not having any scrutiny fromj the markets only makes it easier for him to do what the Hun are famous for - all-things illegal and immoral !!. That club is FOR crooks and it's RUN by crooks - hopefully we and the other clubs use that fact as incentive to ram the s*um in every single game !!
Not sure that they have made any questionable moves thus far, other than from a commercial perspective.

[Brightside]

Serious answer. Rermember that players don't necessarily stay the same standard of player no matter who they play for. A decent player at one club can become an excellent player at another club if conditions are right. I'm not ready to knock the effect that Warburton might have on the future of Sevco and I'm not daft enough to think that all his recruits will be mediocre forever.

Yeh they might get worse... infact with that lot there is a very good chance.

[liamh2202]

Lee Wallace breaking into Scotland squad shows some loyalty to Sevco and spenf 4 years in lower leagues. What a waste of a career. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he moved.

I'd still take Lee at hibs ,, in fact the Mrs has a pic of him somewhere as a youngster with a hibs top on ;)

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure that they have made any questionable moves thus far, other than from a commercial perspective.

I agree, all the crookedness that is happening with the new club appears to be to the detriment of new Rangers. If they do go belly up again then they can at least play the victim card legitimately this time, although you could reasonably call them idiots for not seeing it coming.

[Spike Mandela]

Yeh they might get worse... infact with that lot there is a very good chance.

Lets face it, no matter your view of Wilson at least he's better than Moshni.

[Weststandwanab]

Lets face it, no matter your view of Wilson at least he's better than Moshni.
I am better than Moshni !

[Deansy]

Lee Wallace breaking into Scotland squad shows some loyalty to Sevco and spenf 4 years in lower leagues. What a waste of a career. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he moved.


Still, that 'loyalty' probably earned him 3-4 times more than most other players in Scotland - however, paying the price now for selling his soul to the devil, the 'non-football' ethos at 'Greyskull' has washed him out !


Not sure that they have made any questionable moves thus far, other than from a commercial perspective.

Oh aye, agreed - so far ......................... but I wouldn't hold my breath. They can't help themselves, they NEED to flaunt their 'We can do anything we like - we're Rangers' stuff so their fans don't think they've went all soft and legit !!

[matty_f]

I am better than Moshni !

You're not in an exclusive club there, pal!!

Some things that are better than Moshni:

Danny Wilson
Weststandwanab
hepatitis B
Atari Jaguar
Trevor Jordache's patio.
Sinclair C5
The last Indiana Jones movie
The Phantom Menace
The Joey from Friends spin-off
Christian Nade
Our Scottish Cup record.
Sex and the City (any season)
Patrick Kielty
PMT
Choking in your own vomit.

Some things that Moshni is better than:

Yams.

[Peevemor]

I am better than Moshni !

I'm better than Moshni and so's my wife.

[bod]

Apparently Wilson is on £8k a week, rising to £10k if they get promoted, and Eustace is being offered £10k a week. Proof that no matter what their turnover is, they really don't care and will continue to overspend.

where you hearing the wages from ?
not doubting just curious

[JeMeSouviens]

You're not in an exclusive club there, pal!!

Some things that are better than Moshni:

Danny Wilson
Weststandwanab
hepatitis B
Atari Jaguar
Trevor Jordache's patio.
Sinclair C5
The last Indiana Jones movie
The Phantom Menace
The Joey from Friends spin-off
Christian Nade
Our Scottish Cup record.
Sex and the City (any season)
Patrick Kielty
PMT
Choking in your own vomit.

Some things that Moshni is better than:

Yams.

Coincidentally, he's in that:

15064

[hibees 7062]

Lee Wallace breaking into Scotland squad shows some loyalty to Sevco and spenf 4 years in lower leagues. What a waste of a career. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he moved.

He's available for 300k

[Nutmegged]

Is there a credible source for these figures?

His wage wont be bumped up on Promotion but I'm hearing he most definitely is on £400,000 per year which is just slightly under £8k per week

[greenginger]

Looks like Philmac. was on the money with the King/Ashley pow-wow the day of the GM.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3136746/Rangers-chairman-Dave-King-holds-secret-talks-bid-ease-Mike-Ashley-s-grip-retail-deal.html

[HoboHarry]

Looks like Philmac. was on the money with the King/Ashley pow-wow the day of the GM.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3136746/Rangers-chairman-Dave-King-holds-secret-talks-bid-ease-Mike-Ashley-s-grip-retail-deal.html
On this occasion I didn't really doubt that Phil was wrong. Like any journalist you cannot believe everything he says, but I find him a refreshing change from the sycophantic morons who feast from the succulent lamb provided by Sevco....

[Deansy]

Looks like Philmac. was on the money with the King/Ashley pow-wow the day of the GM.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3136746/Rangers-chairman-Dave-King-holds-secret-talks-bid-ease-Mike-Ashley-s-grip-retail-deal.html

'As the 10th biggest shareholder in Rangers, we put the club first and think the shareholders in Sports Direct should do the same for our mutual benefit by negotiating a win-win deal’

Somehow I think the SD share-holders will stick with the current'win-win deal' that's in place !. The 'Moron Loyal' are struggling to understand that, unlike them, people who bought shares in 'Sports Direct' didn't buy the shares because they support SD, they bought them to make money.

[AndyM_1875]

On this occasion I didn't really doubt that Phil was wrong. Like any journalist you cannot believe everything he says, but I find him a refreshing change from the sycophantic morons who feast from the succulent lamb provided by Sevco....

He gives his audience what they want just like the tabloids do.

He was right that King met Ashley. He then went on a flight of fancy about what Ashley thinks and what King apparently did. In truth he has absolutely no idea but that's typical of him. He gets one thing right and then makes it all up as he goes along. You can usually tell when he begins a sentence with "I am hearing..." or "My sources tell me ...." that it's absolute garbage.

The tabloid MSM have their audience (newspaper buying weegies generally over 40) and Phil has his (conspiracy theorist Sellik minded fruitcakes).

Believe neither.

[greenginger]

He gives his audience what they want just like the tabloids do.

He was right that King met Ashley. He then went on a flight of fancy about what Ashley thinks and what King apparently did. In truth he has absolutely no idea but that's typical of him. He gets one thing right and then makes it all up as he goes along. You can usually tell when he begins a sentence with "I am hearing..." or "My sources tell me ...." that it's absolute garbage.

The tabloid MSM have their audience (newspaper buying weegies generally over 40) and Phil has his (conspiracy theorist Sellik minded fruitcakes).

Believe neither.


Philmac must have some source. You can't just guess King and Ashley met on a certain day. His source is probably in the Ashley camp leaking whatever big Mike thinks will give him an advantage.

How much of what Philmac writes is leaked and actually true and how much is guesswork is ,well guesswork.

A bit like Hibs.net :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Philmac must have some source. You can't just guess King and Ashley met on a certain day. His source is probably in the Ashley camp leaking whatever big Mike thinks will give him an advantage.

How much of what Philmac writes is leaked and actually true and how much is guesswork is ,well guesswork.

A bit like Hibs.net :greengrin

The Daily Mail could well have just lifted the story from Philmac.The worst that could happen is that they just have to say the story was wrong.Why would they be having "secret "negotiations when Rangers have been shouting for weeks that they want a better deal and Ashley has told them how to get it.

[greenginger]

The Daily Mail could well have just lifted the story from Philmac.The worst that could happen is that they just have to say the story was wrong.Why would they be having "secret "negotiations when Rangers have been shouting for weeks that they want a better deal and Ashley has told them how to get it.


They can't just say the story is wrong, if its not wrong. Ashley could prove otherwise if it was'nt wrong.

The story is not that " they " were having secret negotiations , it is " he " , King who went behind the other directors backs.

Here is another haver/blog from Philmac.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/now-the-spin-begins/

[Jack Hackett]

The Daily Mail could well have just lifted the story from Philmac.The worst that could happen is that they just have to say the story was wrong.Why would they be having "secret "negotiations when Rangers have been shouting for weeks that they want a better deal and Ashley has told them how to get it.
The fact that hard man King has gone cap in hand to Ashley will not go down well with the peepul has importance. It just reinforces how Donald Ducked and impotent rather than important they actually are.

[Keith_M]

...............

Here is another haver/blog from Philmac.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/now-the-spin-begins/


Any chance you could summarize it?


I can't stand reading his Blogs as he comes over as so far up his own ar5e that he looks at the world from behind his teeth.

[Onceinawhile]

Any chance you could summarize it?


I can't stand reading his Blogs as he comes over as so far up his own ar5e that he looks at the world from behind his teeth.

It's basically what you said in 300 or so words.

[greenginger]

Any chance you could summarize it?


I can't stand reading his Blogs as he comes over as so far up his own ar5e that he looks at the world from behind his teeth.

Basically he says, at last somebody in the media confirms the meeting took place but has spun it as King confronting Ashley to get a better retail deal.

Also points out the Mail article omits any mention of the other directors being aware or unaware of the meeting and no mention of King offering to sell his shares to Ashley.

About 1000 words in Phil's unique style of haver. Speed reading would be a great help to get through his bumph ! :greengrin

[Famous Fiver]

I quite enjoy his style.

He knows he is irritating ad nauseam and revels in it because he is generally right

Anything that ruffles the peepuls feathers is OK by me!!

[Ozyhibby]

So Phil is 3 things
A. Pretty good at the investigative side of journalism and has good sources.
B. Terrible writer.
And
C. A complete roaster

That's where I'm at with him.

[jacomo]

With Mark Warburton looking annoyingly competent so far, I am now very interested in the possibility of a total meltdown at boardroom level.

The Rangers are currently taking season ticket money so cash flow must be quite healthy, and they need to sign players to try and sell as many STs as possible.

But they are still a loss making business and will burn through that cash pretty quick. Then what?

[greenginger]

With Mark Warburton looking annoyingly competent so far, I am now very interested in the possibility of a total meltdown at boardroom level.

The Rangers are currently taking season ticket money so cash flow must be quite healthy, and they need to sign players to try and sell as many STs as possible.

But they are still a loss making business and will burn through that cash pretty quick. Then what?


Ibrox payday today, last Thursday of the month.

First £70 k of season ticket money goes to pay the gardener.

[jacomo]

Ibrox payday today, last Thursday of the month.

First £70 k of season ticket money goes to pay the gardener.

Ken. But they won't go bust before the summer ends.

On current form, though, they can't possibly last until the end of the season unless they sell out Ibrox or find some fresh investment from somewhere.

I can't believe that Warburton didn't seek assurances about this, but if King has the money why doesn't he just pay back the MASH loan? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

[HoboHarry]

He gives his audience what they want just like the tabloids do.

He was right that King met Ashley. He then went on a flight of fancy about what Ashley thinks and what King apparently did. In truth he has absolutely no idea but that's typical of him. He gets one thing right and then makes it all up as he goes along. You can usually tell when he begins a sentence with "I am hearing..." or "My sources tell me ...." that it's absolute garbage.

The tabloid MSM have their audience (newspaper buying weegies generally over 40) and Phil has his (conspiracy theorist Sellik minded fruitcakes).

Believe neither.
It's not really a question of who to believe though is it? If you choose to believe nothing then you are wasting your time reading anything at all. I prefer to read both sides, dismiss what I see as nonsense, add some common sense and logic and come to my own view of what is probably the truth. Just like is Phil is doing in fact if he does not have a source........ (though I think he probably does)

[Stonewall]

Ken. But they won't go bust before the summer ends.

On current form, though, they can't possibly last until the end of the season unless they sell out Ibrox or find some fresh investment from somewhere.

I can't believe that Warburton didn't seek assurances about this, but if King has the money why doesn't he just pay back the MASH loan? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

All I can think is that if he pays back the 5 million he's still left with the problem of the disadvantageous retail contract. I presume he wants to renegotiate the whole relationship with Ashley. The threat of non-repayment of the loan, along with the bears refusal to buy merchandise, are the only bargaining tools he has.

[BSEJVT]

All I can think is that if he pays back the 5 million he's still left with the problem of the disadvantageous retail contract. I presume he wants to renegotiate the whole relationship with Ashley. The threat of non-repayment of the loan, along with the bears refusal to buy merchandise, are the only bargaining tools he has.

Exactly the situation, despite talks of boycotts your average The Rangers supporter is too set in their ways not to continue to buy merchandise.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ashley kept at this until at least the season started, when most merchandise sales were made by, and then came to an agreement which involved Rangers paying off the £5m and handing him another wedge to change the contract terms.

The present The Rangers board think they are oh so clever playing this game with Ashley, but he will be the only winner out of this, they will need to show something to the hordes to show their "power" but the real deal and the one they claim to have achieved will be light years apart.

[Ozyhibby]

Exactly the situation, despite talks of boycotts your average The Rangers supporter is too set in their ways not to continue to buy merchandise.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ashley kept at this until at least the season started, when most merchandise sales were made by, and then came to an agreement which involved Rangers paying off the £5m and handing him another wedge to change the contract terms.

The present The Rangers board think they are oh so clever playing this game with Ashley, but he will be the only winner out of this, they will need to show something to the hordes to show their "power" but the real deal and the one they claim to have achieved will be light years apart.

A boycott does not affect Ashley as SD get paid by new Rangers for any unsold stock.
I don't think Ashley will concede an inch.

[AndyM_1875]

It's not really a question of who to believe though is it? If you choose to believe nothing then you are wasting your time reading anything at all. I prefer to read both sides, dismiss what I see as nonsense, add some common sense and logic and come to my own view of what is probably the truth. Just like is Phil is doing in fact if he does not have a source........ (though I think he probably does)

I said believe neither, not believe nothing. My approach isn't very different from yours. I'll no more believe anything he says than what is rightly referred to on here as "Level5's propaganda of shiny happy stories from Ibrox".

Any story concerning Rangers is to be approached with bull*** detectors on full power regardless of who it's coming from. But I won't apologise for refusing to take as fact anything Phil says because he is an tedious axe grinder, occasional bigot, atrocious writer and basically a complete fanny. If he told me it was raining I'd go outside just to check.

[jacomo]

All I can think is that if he pays back the 5 million he's still left with the problem of the disadvantageous retail contract. I presume he wants to renegotiate the whole relationship with Ashley. The threat of non-repayment of the loan, along with the bears refusal to buy merchandise, are the only bargaining tools he has.

Just a guess, but if he wanted to renegotiate terms with Ashley, maybe King shouldn't have been a pr*** about chucking Ashley's men off the Board?

2 things about Ashley - he's massively wealthy, and he doesn't seem bothered by public opinion. I think King's chances of renegotiating are somewhere between zip and none.

[Spike Mandela]

Love reading Phil's stuff and love somebody posting it on here as it always makes me chuckle that andy M 1875 can't let it pass without comment. When Phil gets something right it just makes andy even more furious ha ha.

Only teasing Andy ;-)

[JeMeSouviens]

So Phil is 3 things
A. Pretty good at the investigative side of journalism and has good sources.
B. Terrible writer.
And
C. A complete roaster

That's where I'm at with him.

A neat summary. :top marks

[Iain G]

Looks like Philmac. was on the money with the King/Ashley pow-wow the day of the GM.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3136746/Rangers-chairman-Dave-King-holds-secret-talks-bid-ease-Mike-Ashley-s-grip-retail-deal.html

Is King in Handcuffs at this meeting? Thats a caption competition photo if every I have seen one :greengrin

There is still somethign about Richard Gough that annoys me, even as a kid I didn't like him!

[AndyM_1875]

Love reading Phil's stuff and love somebody posting it on here as it always makes me chuckle that andy M 1875 can't let it pass without comment. When Phil gets something right it just makes andy even more furious ha ha.

Only teasing Andy ;-)

:fishin: :wink:

[greenginger]

Looks like Ian Cathro the wonder coach who quit Valencia ( according to the weegie rags ) to be available should Sevco require his genius has actually joined Mike Ashley's big team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33243251

[Geo_1875]

Looks like Ian Cathro the wonder coach who quit Valencia ( according to the weegie rags ) to be available should Sevco require his genius has actually joined Mike Ashley's big team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33243251

Could he be going to The Rangers on loan at Christmas?

[Bostonhibby]

Looks like Ian Cathro the wonder coach who quit Valencia ( according to the weegie rags ) to be available should Sevco require his genius has actually joined Mike Ashley's big team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33243251

They are going to be forced to rent him for £5m at the next transfer window but they will have to instantly loan him back to Newcastle. The team formerly known as Glasgow rangers will be paying his wages.

He probably failed the fat and protestant person test, or refused to take it.:greengrin

[Swedish hibee]

Did anyone hear Warburtons interview tonight? Jeez- 5 mins in the door & he's a true BS blue nose.. :rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

Did anyone hear Warburtons interview tonight? Jeez- 5 mins in the door & he's a true BS blue nose.. :rolleyes: nope, but I did hear that the huns think he's the best thing since sliced bread

[Weststandwanab]

nope, but I did hear that the huns think he's the best thing since sliced bread

So was Super Swally just toast now !

[FranckSuzy]

15075

[JeMeSouviens]

Apparently the New Huns are on the verge of signing the new Dani Alves! :worried:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3142615/Reece-Wabara-compared-Barcelona-star-Dani-Alves-defender-nears-Rangers-move.html

Who's just been released by Donaster Rovers ... :aok:

[jacomo]

Apparently the New Huns are on the verge of signing the new Dani Alves! :worried:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3142615/Reece-Wabara-compared-Barcelona-star-Dani-Alves-defender-nears-Rangers-move.html

Who's just been released by Donaster Rovers ... :aok:

Didn't we sign the new Roberto Carlos once?

[Callum_62]

Didn't we sign the new Roberto Carlos once?

No, it was the Gambian Roberto Carlos

:greengrin

[Mr White]

Apparently the New Huns are on the verge of signing the new Dani Alves! :worried:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3142615/Reece-Wabara-compared-Barcelona-star-Dani-Alves-defender-nears-Rangers-move.html

Who's just been released by Donaster Rovers ... :aok:

"Reece Wabara compared to Barcelona star Dani Alves as defender nears Rangers move"

... ie he's pish compared to dani Alves :greengrin

[CallumLaidlaw]

@Kenny_Millar: Rangers to sign 18-year-old centre-back Tom Lang tomorrow on an initial year-long deal. Impressed on trial after leaving Birmingham City.

[Ozyhibby]

@Kenny_Millar: Rangers to sign 18-year-old centre-back Tom Lang tomorrow on an initial year-long deal. Impressed on trial after leaving Birmingham City.

Looks like the new Rangers won't be splashing the big bucks.

[Jim44]

@Kenny_Millar: Rangers to sign 18-year-old centre-back Tom Lang tomorrow on an initial year-long deal. Impressed on trial after leaving Birmingham City.

One wit on FF saying, I'm quite friendly with his sister, Shanga.:greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

Looks like the new Rangers won't be splashing the big bucks.

Development fees and Bosmans are about as much as I see them going. Warburton is either signing experienced over 30s or promising youngsters who have gone astray which is understandable.

But every time though you think that sense & rational thought process might have descended on the bluenoses some absolute zoomers come out and start droning on about "warchests" and "Dave King and his wealth" and the like. Too many of them still don't get it.

[ancient hibee]

@Kenny_Millar: Rangers to sign 18-year-old centre-back Tom Lang tomorrow on an initial year-long deal. Impressed on trial after leaving Birmingham City.

Has this guy Warburton got a thing about centre halves?

[southsider]

Has this guy Warburton got a thing about centre halves?

Aye, new the rangers free-flowing football. Direct from Harry Potter school of 4-6-0.

[IanM]

@HFCTransferNews: Hibs also looking at former @swfc and Motherwell midfielder Giles Coke, who is a free agent after leaving the owls at the end of the season.

Not to be sniffed at 😏

[ZAGREB RED]

Development fees and Bosmans are about as much as I see them going. Warburton is either signing experienced over 30s or promising youngsters who have gone astray which is understandable.

But every time though you think that sense & rational thought process might have descended on the bluenoses some absolute zoomers come out and start droning on about "warchests" and "Dave King and his wealth" and the like. Too many of them still don't get it.
They haven't got any money to spend...and yes spot on the Hun hordes still don't get what is actually going on..

[Springbank]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-sign-teenage-duo-gibson-and-lang-1-3817342

If this was 12 months ago, when we were in their position (new boss, new to Scottish management, lost half a team, needing to fill positions) and if we'd have signed these two guys plus the "failed medical" recently relegated Irish guy from Wigan, I'd have been doing my nut about lack of ambition , lack of reality check from the manager,lack of understanding about the challenge.

Danny Wilson might be wondering what he has got himself into

[Biggie]

@HFCTransferNews: Hibs also looking at former @swfc and Motherwell midfielder Giles Coke, who is a free agent after leaving the owls at the end of the season.

Not to be sniffed at 

I've heard he's a right bubbly character in the dressing room........Stubbs will be fizzing mad if we miss out on him. (It's the heat guys)

[Deansy]

@Kenny_Millar: Rangers to sign 18-year-old centre-back Tom Lang tomorrow on an initial year-long deal. Impressed on trial after leaving Birmingham City.


And already trying to impress their 'Brains Trust' support -

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomLang05


Absolutely delighted to announce I have signed for @RangersFC (https://mobile.twitter.com/RangersFC) today. A dream come true for me and my family. #WATP (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/WATP?src=hash) 💙🇬🇧

[PatHead]

And already trying to impress their 'Brains Trust' support -

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomLang05


Absolutely delighted to announce I have signed for @RangersFC (https://mobile.twitter.com/RangersFC) today. A dream come true for me and my family. #WATP (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/WATP?src=hash) 

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ian-black-takes-parting-shot-5982465

:tee hee::tee hee:

The only people he'll be getting thank you's from for his performances for Rangers are the opposition :agree:

[JAY-ESS GREEN]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ian-black-takes-parting-shot-5982465

:tee hee::tee hee:

The only people he'll be getting thank you's from for his performances for Rangers are the opposition :agree:

Must be short of painters down south

[liamh2202]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?

Its that song we sing every time we pump them at ibrox ;)

[ancient hibee]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?


What a total p***k?

[BH Hibs]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?

We Avoided The Premiership. :lolrangers:

[Billy Whizz]

I see they've sold 21,500 season tickets so far

[Ronniekirk]

I see they've sold 21,500 season tickets so far

Most fans I have spoken to reckon they are banking on having over 30 ,000 season ticket holders so guess they are possibly on target for about that

[Billy Whizz]

Most fans I have spoken to reckon they are banking on having over 30 ,000 season ticket holders so guess they are possibly on target for about that

Any idea how many they had last season?

[Ozyhibby]

Any idea how many they had last season?

About that last season. It's not enough to run them all season.

[Billy Whizz]

About that last season. It's not enough to run them all season.

Even 35,000 only gives them over £10 million or so. What were their outgoings in the last set of accounts?

[Ozyhibby]

Even 35,000 only gives them over £10 million or so. What were their outgoings in the last set of accounts?

About £16m

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-sign-teenage-duo-gibson-and-lang-1-3817342

If this was 12 months ago, when we were in their position (new boss, new to Scottish management, lost half a team, needing to fill positions) and if we'd have signed these two guys plus the "failed medical" recently relegated Irish guy from Wigan, I'd have been doing my nut about lack of ambition , lack of reality check from the manager,lack of understanding about the challenge.

Danny Wilson might be wondering what he has got himself into


he probably has 8,000 reasons for not giving a stuff surely

[Deansy]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?


'We'll Achieve Third Probably'



I see they've sold 21,500 season tickets so far


What a differerence having 'NO MONEY' makes, eh -during their 'EBT Years' (Cheating), they boasted about the 'X-amount of years Waiting-list for X-amount of fans' for their season-tickets and 'LOYAL' was the buzz-word !. But now, due to a shortage of cash/titles/trophies, there doesn't seem to be quite the same appetite to support (by my reckoning at least a 50% drop !) 'The world's most successful football club' that they like to brag about despite every man and his dog knowing exactly HOW at least 10 of their titles were 'won' ??.

[Hibs Class]

I see they've sold 21,500 season tickets so far

I wouldn't believe a single thing they say.

[Bostonhibby]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?

Weren't actually tax payers? :dunno:

[Ronniekirk]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?

Want Allan Transfered Please :rolleyes: :na na:

[jacomo]

I've heard he's a right bubbly character in the dressing room........Stubbs will be fizzing mad if we miss out on him. (It's the heat guys)

These puns have gone flat.

[Keith_M]

Any idea how many they had last season?


IIRC, it was around 28,000.

[PatHead]

IIRC, it was around 28,000.

The hun next door told me they had only sold 18000 so far. Sounds like King's boycott is still working.

[JeMeSouviens]

Any idea how many they had last season?

As of Dec 31 2014, they had 24,589, they might've sold a few more half seasons.

So taking the 21500 at face value (and remember it's coming via Fat Slug Traynor's PR firm and they don't have a stock exchange to report the truth to any more), they've lost about 15% of their core support. They might get a few more boycotters returning but I think they're probably looking at the 25-30k range, well short of the laughable 45k target. :aok:

Their cost base is still enormous too!

[greenginger]

Surely some pedant can go onto the Season ticket website and count the dots.

[Ozyhibby]

21000 season tickets will only be about £6m. Well short of the type of revenue they need.
And remember, this is their only source of income.
All the other normal income streams have been sold.

[Jim44]

21000 season tickets will only be about £6m. Well short of the type of revenue they need.
And remember, this is their only source of income.
All the other normal income streams have been sold.

I think their season tickets have still to go on open sale so how many they will sell is an unknown quantity. If the figure is below 45k, King has said he will make up the shortfall. 'Money where mouth is' time is looming for their saviour.

[MKHIBEE]

What does WATP mean? Should it not be WASP if he want to ingratiate himself?
"We Are Total Pish"

[Onceinawhile]

Think it's 21,000 renewals. Would imagine they'll shift a wedge more though. Would imagine this is why they've been sluggish in the market for players.

[Just Alf]

Surely some pedant can go onto the Season ticket website and count the dots.

No worries.... I've got this... :agree:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ......... 99, 100, 101, 102.......

..... 1875, 1876, 1877, 1878.....

20100, 20101.........

20179, 201 err 80.... 20081.... Ummm .... Sigh!


1, 2, 3, .........

[Springbank]

Think it's 21,000 renewals. Would imagine they'll shift a wedge more though. Would imagine this is why they've been sluggish in the market for players.

I don't think they'll sell any more than 750 more

That's their max

King is learning (as perhaps rod did a few years ago) don't do things that drive fans away, however well intentioned you may be. Lots won't come back til there are players who excite you, but you can't afford those players with fewer season books.

I'm glad we've got leanne, Scott Allan, and the rest now
Unlike the Sevco, we are well worth watching!

[Eyrie]

They're going to need to shift a few more season tickets to pay their ex-players even more money for not playing (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ex-players-claim-rangers-holiday-pay-reports-1-3820040) for them.

[Ozyhibby]

They're going to need to shift a few more season tickets to pay their ex-players even more money for not playing (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ex-players-claim-rangers-holiday-pay-reports-1-3820040) for them.

Are there points deductions these day for wages breaches?

[Eyrie]

Are there points deductions these day for wages breaches?
I think so, so that could make it even more interesting :greengrin

[Nutmegged]

I think their season tickets have still to go on open sale so how many they will sell is an unknown quantity. If the figure is below 45k, King has said he will make up the shortfall. 'Money where mouth is' time is looming for their saviour.

45k is pie in the sky, they got 38k in defiance when they were "reborn" in the third division, that figure decreased the following Season and last year they got 28k, 5k of that came in half Season tickets at Xmas

I do think they'll hit 28-30k but not much more than that and while it'll be a damn site more than all but about 10/11 clubs in Britain it will not be enough to make them financially viable, money the board will need to put in will be for the upkeep of the Football Club, not the first team....well that's of course if they replicate last Seasons wage budget which I do expect them to do

[CallumLaidlaw]

@newsundayherald: Deloitte quits as Rangers auditor over 'threats' to staff
Full story in tomorrow's paper

[iwasthere1972]

They're going to need to shift a few more season tickets to pay their ex-players even more money for not playing (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ex-players-claim-rangers-holiday-pay-reports-1-3820040) for them.

I think the judge will rule that were on holiday all year round when he watches the video evidence. :agree:

[greenginger]

@newsundayherald: Deloitte quits as Rangers auditor over 'threats' to staff
Full story in tomorrow's paper


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/deloitte-quit-as-rangers-auditors-over-threats-to-staff.131035916


The story does not have much detail as to what the threats were about .

[grunt]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/deloitte-quit-as-rangers-auditors-over-threats-to-staff.131035916


The story does not have much detail as to what the threats were about .Anyone care to copy the article?

[FranckSuzy]

Anyone care to copy the article?

"DELOITTE have quit as auditors of financially troubled Rangers after staff received threatening and intimidating messages over a two year period.

In a letter distributed to Rangers International Football Club plc shareholders, Deloitte say the messages came from "anonymous third party sources" during 2013 and 2014.

In a separate letter to shareholders James Blair, the RIFC company secretary said: "The board is disappointed that Deloitte has chosen to resign due to acts which occurred in 2013 and 2014 whilst RIFC was under different stewardship."

South African businessman Dave King and allies took control of the RIFC board from allies of Sports Direct tycoon Mike Ashley in a shareholders vote at an extraordinary general meeting on March 6.

The Deloitte letter dated June 19 states: "We have decided that we no longer wish to carry on as auditor to the company.

"During the period of our audit appointment in 2013 and 2014, members of our engagement team and other Deloitte partners unconnected with the audit received threatening or intimidating messages from anonymous third party sources.

"The safety and wellbeing of our staff is of paramount importance, and they should not be subject to this treatment when undertaking their normal professional duties. Accordingly we are resigning as auditors to Rangers International Football Club plc."

Blair told shareholders there had been "positive discussions" ongoing with "alternative auditors" and that an announcement on an appointment will be made "in the near future".

The announcement to shareholders comes three months after the latest half-yearly RIFC accounts said that the Rangers holding company had appointed London-based accountants Jeffreys Henry to act as independent reporting accountants after discovering Deloitte had announced an "intention to resign" following the June 2014 audit.

Acting chairman Paul Murray said at the time that the previous board "chose not to announce this nor did they find a replacement".

At the time the board said it would make "a further announcement on this subject once we have found a replacement firm for Deloitte".

The board said the financial statement made for the six month period to December 31 2014 was made on a "going concern basis", saying it was investigating a "number of options" for future finance and had identified a number of potential investors.

Then, Jeffreys Henry said there remains "the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern".

The board also said it was continuing to investigate options regarding replacing the nominated adviser, which acts as a stock market regulator.

It came after Manchester-based WH Ireland quit as the club's stock market nominated adviser (Nomad). That led to shares in the holding company Rangers International Football Club plc being suspended from trading on the Aim stock market on March 4.

RIFC are still trying to find an alternative trading platform for shareholders. Deloitte were unavailable for further comment."

:aok:

[grunt]

:aok:
Thank you.

[Spike Mandela]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/deloitte-quit-as-rangers-auditors-over-threats-to-staff.131035916


The story does not have much detail as to what the threats were about .

The Rangers just get more and more embarrassing and we can all imagine what nature the threats were from the brave anonymous Rangers 'brown shirts ' were.

[Oscar T Grouch]

The Rangers just get more and more embarrassing and we can all imagine what nature the threats were from the brave anonymous Rangers 'brown shirts ' were.

We don't need to imagine, their MO was the same in the old club and remains in the new club. These threats will have been of death and violence. It show that the hardcore of their fans are criminally minded, violent idiots.

[greenginger]

We don't need to imagine, their MO was the same in the old club and remains in the new club. These threats will have been of death and violence. It show that the hardcore of their fans are criminally minded, violent idiots.


Deloittes also audit a couple of animal testing labs and fracking outfits so I don't think a few threats from deluded keyboard warriors will be enough to scare them off.

Presumably the threats stopped when the real Rangers men took control.

Maybe its just a good excuse to sever ties with a basket case of an company.

[sahib]

21000 season tickets will only be about £6m. Well short of the type of revenue they need.
And remember, this is their only source of income.
All the other normal income streams have been sold.

If what you say is true, then Mike Ashley should be given an award for services to Scottish football.

[brog]

Deloittes also audit a couple of animal testing labs and fracking outfits so I don't think a few threats from deluded keyboard warriors will be enough to scare them off.

Presumably the threats stopped when the real Rangers men took control.

Maybe its just a good excuse to sever ties with a basket case of an company.

I didn't realise threatening, em accountants, was also in the finest traditions of this grand old (2yo) club! I wonder if Warburton's learned the words to Derry's Walls yet? Basket case doesn't even begin to describe this vile institution.

[Cropley10]

Deloittes also audit a couple of animal testing labs and fracking outfits so I don't think a few threats from deluded keyboard warriors will be enough to scare them off.

Presumably the threats stopped when the real Rangers men took control.

Maybe its just a good excuse to sever ties with a basket case of an company.

Not sure why threats stopped when the new board arrived. The WATP mentality is to threaten anyone who they feel is against them.

Deloitte were, IMO, not at all comfortable that The Rangers were trading whilst insolvent- and must have been dead keen to get away.


Sent from a phone

[Springbank]

Not sure why threats stopped when the new board arrived. The WATP mentality is to threaten anyone who they feel is against them.

Deloitte were, IMO, not at all comfortable that The Rangers were trading whilst insolvent- and must have been dead keen to get away.


Sent from a phone

This would be the perfect moment for the fat gardener to reappear

Just like when he said of the SPFL committee:

"we demand to know the names of those involved"

*when a rangers board member was present in the meeting

So now he can demand to know the names of the accountants

*who were appointed by the Rangers board

And the reason he should do this: tradition :)

[greenginger]

I didn't realise threatening, em accountants, was also in the finest traditions of this grand old (2yo) club! I wonder if Warburton's learned the words to Derry's Walls yet? Basket case doesn't even begin to describe this vile institution.


Derry's Walls :confused:

Is that the one that starts,

" The cry was no attenders " :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Derry's Walls :confused:

Is that the one that starts,

" The cry was no attenders " :greengrin
[emoji106] or was it
"The cry was tax offenders

Offended then they died"

[Betty Boop]

Deloittes also audit a couple of animal testing labs and fracking outfits so I don't think a few threats from deluded keyboard warriors will be enough to scare them off.

Presumably the threats stopped when the real Rangers men took control.

Maybe its just a good excuse to sever ties with a basket case of an company.

The Council also used them to consult on the massive cuts they will be making.

[number9dream]

The latest HMRC appeal against the big tax case is scheduled to start tomorrow.

[bingo70]

The latest HMRC appeal against the big tax case is scheduled to start tomorrow.

Will that have any relevance to the new company?

[Onceinawhile]

Will that have any relevance to the new company?

No.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will that have any relevance to the new company?

It may do.

If HMRC lose the case, there will be more money available to the other creditors....... of whom DK is one. :cb

[Billy Whizz]

It may do.

If HMRC lose the case, there will be more money available to the other creditors....... of whom DK is one. :cb

And if hmrc win the case?

[CropleyWasGod]

And if hmrc win the case?

There will be less? :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

Not sure why threats stopped when the new board arrived. The WATP mentality is to threaten anyone who they feel is against them.

Deloitte were, IMO, not at all comfortable that The Rangers were trading whilst insolvent- and must have been dead keen to get away.


Sent from a phone


Probably because they had a new spawn of satan to concentrate their righteous ire on in Mike Ashley. Bit of an overtax of the grey matter if they have to split their attention.

[HoboHarry]

It may do.

If HMRC lose the case, there will be more money available to the other creditors....... of whom DK is one. :cb
So given that DK is not backing Sevco with his own money (at least not in any real quantity) could this have been his motivation to gain control? Will it help him get some of his money back if Hector loses?

[CropleyWasGod]

So given that DK is not backing Sevco with his own money (at least not in any real quantity) could this have been his motivation to gain control? Will it help him get some of his money back if Hector loses?

He, and Sevco, have no influence on the HMRC case. It's irrelevant who is in control.

It's in his interests, as I say, for HMRC to lose. He may be banking on that, to enable him to put cash into the club.

[HoboHarry]

He, and Sevco, have no influence on the HMRC case. It's irrelevant who is in control.

It's in his interests, as I say, for HMRC to lose. He may be banking on that, to enable him to put cash into the club.
I'm willing to bet you a bottle of fine white wine that he will not be putting any substantial amount of his own money into Sevco whether he gets some of it back or not........

[tamig]

He, and Sevco, have no influence on the HMRC case. It's irrelevant who is in control.

It's in his interests, as I say, for HMRC to lose. He may be banking on that, to enable him to put cash into the club.
Is he likely to benefit to the tune of a few million or more then? I didn't think the numbers at stake - should HMRC lose - were at anything like those levels.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is he likely to benefit to the tune of a few million or more then? I didn't think the numbers at stake - should HMRC lose - were at anything like those levels.

He might do.

At the moment, the dividend is 6/7 pence in the £, based on a distribution of £10m. So DK will get £1.2-1.4m.

HMRC's claim in the BTC is £72m.

So, if they lose, the pot increases 7-fold. Whether that means the dividend does is another matter.

[tamig]

He might do.

At the moment, the dividend is 6/7 pence in the £, based on a distribution of £10m. So DK will get £1.2-1.4m.

HMRC's claim in the BTC is £72m.

So, if they lose, the pot increases 7-fold. Whether that means the dividend does is another matter.

So not a huge "windfall" in the bigger scheme of things - unless the dividend increases. Thanks for the info. Do you have a view as to how this appeal is likely to pan out?

[CropleyWasGod]

So not a huge "windfall" in the bigger scheme of things - unless the dividend increases. Thanks for the info. Do you have a view as to how this appeal is likely to pan out?

Not really. Like a lot of these tax test-cases, it's gone beyond the letter or the spirit of the law, and is now about skilled lawyers splitting hairs about words and nuances.

[greenginger]

Not really. Like a lot of these tax test-cases, it's gone beyond the letter or the spirit of the law, and is now about skilled lawyers splitting hairs about words and nuances.


Any idea who is paying for the skilled lawyers on the Rangers 1872 ( RIP ) side.

[Cropley10]

I'm willing to bet you a bottle of fine white wine that he will not be putting any substantial amount of his own money into Sevco whether he gets some of it back or not........

:agree: He's only got slightly more money than Potless Paul

[CropleyWasGod]

Any idea who is paying for the skilled lawyers on the Rangers 1872 ( RIP ) side.
BDO, hence the creditors.

[ancient hibee]

He might do.

At the moment, the dividend is 6/7 pence in the £, based on a distribution of £10m. So DK will get £1.2-1.4m.

HMRC's claim in the BTC is £72m.

So, if they lose, the pot increases 7-fold. Whether that means the dividend does is another matter.


But is there money in the pot to the extent of another £72m regardless of the result?

[CropleyWasGod]

But is there money in the pot to the extent of another £72m regardless of the result?

Nah.... ignore that raving. It's bull dust :greengrin

BDO will have done their sums to work out how much they can distribute now (the £10m), without prejudicing the HMRC claim.

According to this:-

http://www.bdo.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/1347695/RFC-progress-report-12-06-15-WEBSITE.pdf

... they have about £18m in the pot, before the initial dividend.

Once the HMRC case is settled, they can work out the final dividend. That remaining £8m will be allocated accordingly.

[Keith_M]

Nah.... ignore that raving. It's bull dust :greengrin




I always thought the first requirement of being an Accountant was the ability to use a calculator.

I was obviously wrong.


:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

I always thought the first requirement of being an Accountant was the ability to use a calculator.

I was obviously wrong.


:wink:

Abacus, dear boy.

Technology will never catch on, you know.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Abacus, dear boy.

Technology will never catch on, you know.

"It's not the numbers that are important" - as our accounts lecturer used to say bizarrely :) usually after discovering an arithmetic error...

[ancient hibee]

Abacus, dear boy.

Technology will never catch on, you know.

Not as long as we've got five fingers(including a thumb for pedants)on each hand.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not as long as we've got five fingers(including a thumb for pedants)on each hand.

That's the Yams ****ed then.

[Keith_M]

That's the Yams ****ed then.


15122

[CropleyWasGod]

15122
I take it back.

That's Ernst and Young.

[Ronniekirk]

Abacus, dear boy.

Technology will never catch on, you know.

Genesis L P from the eighties ,and not one of their better ones IMO,

[jabis]

Genesis L P from the eighties ,and not one of their better ones IMO,

Abacab........though I agree🚽

[CockneyRebel]

@HFCTransferNews: Hibs also looking at former @swfc and Motherwell midfielder Giles Coke, who is a free agent after leaving the owls at the end of the season.

Not to be sniffed at 

Heard he's the real thing.

[Moulin Yarns]

Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463114973184?p=p)


Morning of evidence from HMRC who said notion of not paying tax through EBT scheme was a "fantastically silly proposition."









Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463182045184?p=p)


HMRC also said it would be "catastrophic for the public purse" if this scheme is all that's needed to avoid paying tax. #EBT (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/EBT?src=hash) ##Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)

[Billy Whizz]

Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463114973184?p=p)


Morning of evidence from HMRC who said notion of not paying tax through EBT scheme was a "fantastically silly proposition."









Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463182045184?p=p)


HMRC also said it would be "catastrophic for the public purse" if this scheme is all that's needed to avoid paying tax. #EBT (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/EBT?src=hash) ##Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)





Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!

[Moulin Yarns]

Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!


One of our IFAs will be along soon, but I gather this is day 1 of 4. Final verdict on this stage due sometime in the future.

[tamig]

Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!

It won't be a quick one. Early days yet.

[Hamish]

Will be decided on 12th July I heard. But then according to some everyday is the 12th of July.

[Moulin Yarns]

Will be decided on 12th July I heard. But then according to some everyday is the 12th of July.

It would be glorious if it went HMRC way :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!

Very unlikely.

Any money due would the company's liability. However, it's less about the money here than the principle. HMRC have a few more cases pending, where there is money at stake. If this case goes their way, it will help them in those other cases.

[Ozyhibby]

Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!

There is no chance of the players ever having to pay money back.

[CropleyWasGod]

There is no chance of the players ever having to pay money back.

Wouldn't say "no chance". If there was evidence of collusion between the players and their employers, in an attempt to defraud HMRC, the players would be liable to prosecution and repayment.

That hasn't been suggested yet, so it's unlikely, but never say "never" about this story. :greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463114973184?p=p)


Morning of evidence from HMRC who said notion of not paying tax through EBT scheme was a "fantastically silly proposition."









Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
(http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug?p=s)
17m (http://www.hibs.net/BBCchrismclaug/status/618384463182045184?p=p)


HMRC also said it would be "catastrophic for the public purse" if this scheme is all that's needed to avoid paying tax. #EBT (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/EBT?src=hash) ##Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)





Excuse my cynicism but those points are laughable coming from HMRC who seem to shy away when it comes to chasing down oligarchs operating in the UK or large companies and their big nasty lawyers and evil accountants for tax avoided when its easier to throw their weight around with small business and sole-traders.

[Ozyhibby]

Excuse my cynicism but those points are laughable coming from HMRC who seem to shy away when it comes to chasing down oligarchs operating in the UK or large companies and their big nasty lawyers and evil accountants for tax avoided when its easier to throw their weight around with small business and sole-traders.

The complexity of the tax system is a rich man's (and accountants) dream.

[southsider]

Excuse my cynicism but those points are laughable coming from HMRC who seem to shy away when it comes to chasing down oligarchs operating in the UK or large companies and their big nasty lawyers and evil accountants for tax avoided when its easier to throw their weight around with small business and sole-traders.
Small Business ? This was a football club paying players £30-40 THOUSAND per week and paying no tax while we get hammered with tax and N/I on our wages of 1% of that. Cheats of the highest order were the former Rangers FC and I will be cheering on HMRC from the touchline. More importantly stops King getting a bigger payout.

[tamig]

Small Business ? This was a football club paying players £30-40 THOUSAND per week and paying no tax while we get hammered with tax and N/I on our wages of 1% of that. Cheats of the highest order were the former Rangers FC and I will be cheering on HMRC from the touchline. More importantly stops King getting a bigger payout.
That's the way I see it. Strange assertion to put the hun (old) in the same category as hard working one man bands - which is the implication I took from that post.

[Ozyhibby]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1324229-david-weir-lack-of-scouting-network-makes-rangers-recruitment-harder/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Deansy]

Any idea if Hmrc won this, would any of the players have to pay the tax back. Sorry if it's on this thread somewhere, but there's a lot of pages on it!

'Pay the TAX back' ?? - didn't even pay a penny of the so-called 'LOAN's back, let alone the tax !!

[Keith_M]

'Pay the TAX back' ?? - didn't even pay a penny of the so-called 'LOAN's back, let alone the tax !!


To be fair, the Loans only become payable upon the death of the recipient.


Give them a chance to pay it from beyond the grave before you criticise

:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

'Pay the TAX back' ?? - didn't even pay a penny of the so-called 'LOAN's back, let alone the tax !!

It's one or the other. If it's a loan, there's no tax. If there's tax to pay, there's no loan repayment due.

[Gettin' Auld]

I found this after a wee search - From someone who attended day 1 of the appeal.

Quote


Today in Court 2 in Parliament House.

The teams:
For HMRC: Mr Julian Ghosh QC, Mr Thomson QC. Supported by 2 solicitors and a number of HMRC people.
For MG and Others, Mr Dunlop, QC and another bewigged person whose name I didn’t catch,supported by three solicitors.
On the bench , my lords Carloway, Mackenzie and Drummond-Young, bewigged or gowned.

Sadly, Mr Ghosh is very quiet-spoken and from 4 rows back and him with his back to us,I missed quite a lot through hearing only parts of what he said, usually the links of his argument!
Very briefly,Mr Ghosh gave an outline of the essence of the scheme.

He made much of the point that the Main Trustee knew from a ‘letter of wishes’ and the loan application how much was to be settled in any sub-trust.

He emphasised that this Trust money was part of the remuneration package earned for work done.The only reason it was deemed not taxable was that the money was not paid directly to the employee.

The employee was free to say ” don’t pay me, pay someone else..my wife, brother or whatever.”

In this case, the ‘someone else’ was the Main Trust, in the employee’s belief that loans would be obtained, that the Trustee’s discretion would be used in the right way.

That, said Mr Ghosh, is the principle involved. It would be catastrophic for the public purse if that was all that needed to be done to avoid tax.

The finding that it was a true exercise of discretion is unsound. The significance of that point was missed by the FTT.

Judge Mackenzie : It was not apparent.

Mr Ghosh said that it is that principle that this Court is to decide.

He then discussed the Main Trust (set up by MGL) documents, mentioned that were 5 different employers, and then a whole lot of sub-trusts. And subsequent variations . In one Trust only, Sir David Murray as Protector was given ‘absolute’ powers ( And here Mr Ghosh said that what SDM did in exercise of those powers ‘he simply could not do!)
I kind of missed what it was he did, but apparently he had power to exclude future employees and/or include them, or maybe both

Mr Ghosh said the scheme worked thus: communication between the Trust and the employer, communication between employer and employee, and communication by ‘letter of wish’ between the employee as Protector of his sub-trust and the Main Trust.

He selected three particular cases- Bain, McLean and McCann, and discussed relevant documents, (letters of wishes and side letters) showing the true nature of the Trusts, with the employer undertaking to make payment if a loan were ever to be refused. For example, in the McLean case the letter said ” In the event that the…..the CLUB will pay to you the balance….”

And the monies to be paid were in all footballer cases earned income, and in Bain’s case, bonus for good performance.

So,Mr Ghosh said, we have got to a place where cash payments were being made by the employer on terms where the money is being paid to someone else, in a diversion of earnings to avoid tax.

He then ran through how various sections of the Income Tax Act would apply to such earnings ( requirement on employer to deduct tax, even if payment made to an intermediary or to a person acting on behalf of the employer.

he moved on to consider whether these payments whether made by the employer to the Main trust or whether by the Main trust to a sub-Trust, were to be regarded as ’emoluments’.

He referred to a number of cases :A case involving a partner in KPMG who tried to assign his earnings { and, in parenthesis, he observed that Mr Thornhill had argued that it was an assignment of proprietary interest in his assets as a partner, in the only case that he had won: discreet smiles all round}

And the case of Collins, in which in the sale of shares part of the ‘consideration’ was to be paid to the Company to be held by someone else.

The overall argument, in Mr Ghosh’s submission is ‘YOU the employee are due the money. if was paid to someone else at your request, so what?

He went on to fillet the Defra case, the Edwards and Roberts case, and showed that a true reading of these did not support any view that payments made by an employer into a Trust were anything other than remuneration.

in the present case, the footballers were given an unconditional guarantee that they would get paid, even if their Trust were to refuse a loan.

There was then discussion by Mr Ghosh of Lord Hodge’s judgement in a NIC case in which a distinction had been made by Lord H between earnings and emoluments in so far as National Insurance Contributions was concerned… The case of Mr McHugh, a company director who benefited because his Trust provided a pension for life ( when he was aged 54 , provided he lived to age 60).

There was no such contingency applying to the Trust loans: the football players had a very present hope and expectation of being paid here and now.

Mr Ghosh’s position is that here we have the employee getting a payment of remuneration in a way that he is happy with..

Then Mr Ghosh gave his view of how Ramsay was to be understood.Basically, look at the true transaction, look at the parties, what is the transaction realistically. One is to assess the actual parties, and the relevant actions, and look at the provisions and then look at the actions realistically.

Is it part of a remuneration package?

Yes, it is! Thar’s what McLean got, and McCann…

He cited the SPI(?) case where they wanted to sell gilts to City Bank, and wanted them back commercially.To beat Ramsay, there was a contingency clause about there being a sale, and then a sale back.It is not good enough to build in artificial contingencies just to beat Ramsay.

The true transaction was that there was no sale.

At this point Mr Ghosh explained that he was not attacking the findings of fact of the FTTT.

But we just have to accept that the payments made to the trust were the application of wages.

Ramsay, Edwards and Roberts tell us… the players were told if you get a loan we’ll pay you money, and the letter of wishes is what decides the settlement.

There followed a bit from Mr Ghosh about the ‘causal connection’ between the money paid into the Main trust and the the money paid to the Sub-trust and, subsequently to the player.
Lord McKenzie remarked that if there was no causal connection between the employer and the Main Trust, isn’t the link broken?

Mr Ghosh replied that the causal chain doesn’t start until the money is paid to the player following receipt of letter of wishes and loan application. I think that’s what he said

And in the case of non-players, if the money was not paid to the appellant as an employee, then on what basis would it have been paid?

And Mr Ghosh moved on to show that what was paid was ‘remuneration’ He used McMillan’s ( Group tax and pensions manager)letter in which he used words and phrases such as ‘footballer’s packge…and balance recorded in the side-letters’ ‘remuneration package, part payable through the trust’ and ‘for non-footballers, payment in lieu of bonus earned’

Mr Ghosh again emphasised he was not attacking the Findings of fact. But he remarked that the it was annoying the way the Tribunal recorded the evidence)

He then itemised certain sentences and word in the evidence given by McCann’s agent, Naco Novo’s agent, Mr Bain’s side letters relating to his discussion with SDM about looking for payment in respect of 6grand tax that Bain had had to pay,

and then, on the question of ‘unreserved disposal’ he faulted the the arguments in the Sempra case as being quite wrong.

And criticised a number of the FTTT’s paragraphs ( 234 misses the point,it has nothing to do with entitlement), 235 is incorrect (nobody is talking about ‘absolute transfer of funds),237 is just rubbish or irrelevant- ‘absolutely and unreservedly is NOT the test.

And the Finding in Law number 4 is mistaken( This seems to be about Trust Law, and Lord Drummond-Young clarified what Mr Ghosh was saying, and then both agreed on the point (whatever it was)

Mr ghosh continued by saying that the FTTT had made several non-findings of fact and non-findings of law, and arrive at ‘Accordingly..’
at which point Lord Carloway interjected that ‘accordingly is usually followed by a non-sequitur.!

And then it was home time, at 4.00 pm.
Court reconvenes at 10.30 tomorrow.

[brog]

[QUOTE=Gettin' Auld;4409681]I found this after a wee search - From someone who attended day 1 of the appeal.

Ghosh, well done!! Have the MSM picked up on this? I'm in London but don't see anything in DR today.

[Gettin' Auld]

[QUOTE=Gettin' Auld;4409681]I found this after a wee search - From someone who attended day 1 of the appeal.

Ghosh, well done!! Have the MSM picked up on this? I'm in London but don't see anything in DR today.




Not that i'm aware of.

I found it easily enough if they're interested though. It was on The Scottish Football Monitor site.
http://www.sfm.scot/hmrc-vs-mgh/#more-3242

[Ozyhibby]

Season kicks off two weeks on Saturday and they still only have 17 players.

[Cropley10]

Season kicks off two weeks on Saturday and they still only have 17 players.

Wasn't it reported, glowingly, that King was going to "over-invest" to make sure they're competitive in the top flight though??

Bit strange. What's happened to the war chest??


Sent from a phone

[Stonewall]

Julian Ghosh: there's a name from the past.

Knew him from university and played football and cricket with him. To say he was an eccentric character would be an understatement. Dundee Utd fan iirc.

[Ronniekirk]

Was told today by gers fan at my work that Season Tickets went on open sale today and they shifted 11 thousand in one day not looked for confirmation of this anywhere as he could be at the Wyndham up But seems a huge amount to shift in one day Anyone else heard anything

[bigwheel]

Was told today by gers fan at my work that Season Tickets went on open sale today and they shifted 11 thousand in one day not looked for confirmation of this anywhere as he could be at the Wyndham up But seems a huge amount to shift in one day Anyone else heard anything


In their dreams......not a chance

[grunt]

Was told today by gers fan at my work that Season Tickets went on open sale today and they shifted 11 thousand in one day not looked for confirmation of this anywhere as he could be at the Wyndham up But seems a huge amount to shift in one day Anyone else heard anything
I rather think if this was anywhere near true it would be all over the media - the MSM would be creaming themselves about it.

[Ronniekirk]

I rather think if this was anywhere near true it would be all over the media - the MSM would be creaming themselves about it.

Agree I ,will check with the other guy at my work who works in ticket office and is more grounded.

[AlbertK86]

Was told today by gers fan at my work that Season Tickets went on open sale today and they shifted 11 thousand in one day not looked for confirmation of this anywhere as he could be at the Wyndham up But seems a huge amount to shift in one day Anyone else heard anything

Do you work at Carstairs ? 😉

[Ronniekirk]

Do you work at Carstairs ? 


No but the person at the wynd up is a good candidate for admission there

[AlbertK86]

No but the person at the wynd up is a good candidate for admission there

Yep that was where I was going with it !!!!!!

[greenginger]

http://www.rangers.talent-sport.co.uk/PagesPublic/ProductBrowse/standAndAreaSelection.aspx?stadium=IB&product=ST1516&campaign=50&type=S&productsubtype=


Get your Sevco Season Ticket here. Anyone want to count the dots ?

[Jack]

Wasn't it reported, glowingly, that King was going to "over-invest" to make sure they're competitive in the top flight though??

Bit strange. What's happened to the war chest??


Sent from a phone

Nobody gave him any of their money to invest.

[Bostonhibby]

Nobody gave him any of their money to invest.
A bit harsh surely? :greengrinThe orcs welcomed the latest multi millionaire messiah and you could say he has already over invested, assuming he is personally funding their three recent signings to the tune of several million each.

I hope it never dawns on them that king has no track record of parting with his own money on "ventures" like the new boys. Still at least he seems to be a the rangers man.

[Deansy]

[QUOTE=Gettin' Auld;4409681]I found this after a wee search - From someone who attended day 1 of the appeal.

Ghosh, well done!! Have the MSM picked up on this? I'm in London but don't see anything in DR today.




Probably because the guy's saying the previous decision was wrong - and if the decision is over-turned, you STILL won't read it in the 'Daily R*tard' !

[marinello59]

[QUOTE=brog;4409683]

Probably because the guy's saying the previous decision was wrong - and if the decision is over-turned, you STILL won't read it in the 'Daily R*tard' !

The relevant points have been reported in the media.

[Jack]

A bit harsh surely? :greengrinThe orcs welcomed the latest multi millionaire messiah and you could say he has already over invested, assuming he is personally funding their three recent signings to the tune of several million each.

I hope it never dawns on them that king has no track record of parting with his own money on "ventures" like the new boys. Still at least he seems to be a the rangers man.

TBF it seems he did part with £20m to them previously and had his fingers severely burned to the tune of around £18m! Considerably more than he's currently worth apparently.

Part of me is thinking his plan was to recoup this loss by milking sevco for all they're worth.

Not getting promotion scuppered that plan and he's now desperately seeking plan B without [comparatively speaking] a bolt to his name.

[Bostonhibby]

TBF it seems he did part with £20m to them previously and had his fingers severely burned to the tune of around £18m! Considerably more than he's currently worth apparently.

Part of me is thinking his plan was to recoup this loss by milking sevco for all they're worth.

Not getting promotion scuppered that plan and he's now desperately seeking plan B without [comparatively speaking] a bolt to his name.
Yep. He will likely be after recovering his losses rather than "over investing" this is a guy with a proven record of keeping his money close.

[Keith_M]

TBF it seems he did part with £20m to them previously and had his fingers severely burned to the tune of around £18m! Considerably more than he's currently worth apparently.

Part of me is thinking his plan was to recoup this loss by milking sevco for all they're worth.

Not getting promotion scuppered that plan and he's now desperately seeking plan B without [comparatively speaking] a bolt to his name.


Weren't there questions raised previously as to whether King really had invested, or lost, £20M?

[CropleyWasGod]

Weren't there questions raised previously as to whether King really had invested, or lost, £20M?

I think he's on the list of creditors published by BDO. That says to me that they have accepted his claim.

[Keith_M]

I think he's on the list of creditors published by BDO. That says to me that they have accepted his claim.


Possibly, but it doesn't actually answer my question.


Accountants? Pah!

:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Possibly, but it doesn't actually answer my question.


Accountants? Pah!

:wink:

If they've accepted his claim, it means that he has been able to show that he did invest the £20m.