Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Keith_M]

I am sure you are correct but funds are generated throughout the season and the club will have a reasonable idea of when these fund materialise and are available to utilise.

Consequently this can be implemented into projections which the governing body could scrutinise and question.

I my opinion.


That's true, but I think the King inspired 'boycott' has hit them quite hard. That probably threw their calculations out by quite a bit.


Don't get me wrong, I'd be all in favour of the SFA enforcing some kind of financial viability test for Clubs. It's just that I suspect it would be a very difficult thing to do.

[bingo70]

Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

[CropleyWasGod]

Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

Nobody has "pumped money into them".

The shares that have been bought recently are existing shares. The money goes to the existing shareholders.

[Spike Mandela]

Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

They didn't 'pump money in to them'. They bought shares and money went to whoever shareholders were.

Edit:Ha ha. Snap CWG.

[Weststandwanab]

Surely you don't get to the point of non payment of National Insurance without having a lengthy list of creditors awaiting payment as well. Wonder if any others are likely to trigger winding up notices?

There undoubtedly will be other creditors but they are far less likely than H.M.R.C. to threaten winding up


So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

I would say Yes, as long as the Easdales are able to keep bailing them but probably not that long and who knows what the S.F.A. are happy with.

[bingo70]

Nobody has "pumped money into them".

The shares that have been bought recently are existing shares. The money goes to the existing shareholders.

Thanks. I thought that money was to help tide them over.

What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?

Apologies if that's a daft question, I'm baffled by the whole situation.

[CropleyWasGod]

So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

The SFA, and the SPFL, don't need to say anything until rules are broken.

They have already called RFC to account for the AshleyGate business. They will also, if the reports are true, take action on the non-payment of HMRC.

Otherwise, that's all they can do.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks. I thought that money was to help tide them over.

What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?

Apologies if that's a daft question, I'm baffled by the whole situation.

Not a daft question, and one that is boggling a lot of minds. I have 3 theories at the moment:-

1. Clearly, these guys think that they're getting the shares cheaply. Even if RFC were to go into administration, they (GoldenKing and the 3 Bears) could conceivably come out at the other end with a good deal. That's a huge gamble, but one they will have calculated.

2. they got wind of the basketball guy's interests, and decided to load up with shares in the hope that he would buy them out at a premium.

3. they actually didn't know just how bad things are. I think this is unlikely, but then again this story has been so unpredictable......

[Andy74]

Not a daft question, and one that is boggling a lot of minds. I have 2 theories at the moment:-

1. Clearly, these guys think that they're getting the shares cheaply. Even if RFC were to go into administration, they (GoldenKing and the 3 Bears) could conceivably come out at the other end with a good deal. That's a huge gamble, but one they will have calculated.

2. they got wind of the basketball guy's interests, and decided to load up with shares in the hope that he would buy them out at a premium.

Or they all have their eyes on a bit of power and being named in anything that contains the words Loyal, Union, Bear, King, Royal etc etc.

[Keith_M]

...
What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?
...


There are SO many possibilities but here's a few:


They're not very good businessmen.

They have a cunning plan that the rest of us don't know about.

Their love for their Club is blinding them to the true situation.

The Easdales have told them to 'buy shares, or we'll send the boys round'.

They suspect they can profit from the Company going into Administration.


I'm sure there's more but that's a few to be going along with :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/

[CropleyWasGod]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/

Not going to rely on STV''s financial nous. They have previous. :greengrin

1. the headline says "tax".

2. the report says "National Insurance".

3. this bit..... STV estimates Rangers pay £140,000 per month in National Insurance, raised both from employee and employer contributions, based on salary information detailed in the latest company accounts. That's almost impossible to estimate.

I'm puzzled as to why all of the reports only talk about National Insurance. That suggests that their PAYE is up to date, which would be nonsense; they're paid together these days, and aren't separated out in the payments.

[Keith_M]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/


The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?

[CropleyWasGod]

The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?

It's been updated since Ozy and I first read it.

The internet needs shot sometimes.... :greengrin

[grunt]

The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?How to run an SPFL Investigation:
SPFL - Hi Rangers, are you in default?
Rangers - Nope.
Investigation complete.

[Keith_M]

It's been updated since Ozy and I first read it.

The internet needs shot sometimes.... :greengrin


I know, they just change things at a whim.


:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

How to run an SPFL Investigation:
SPFL - Hi Rangers, are you in default?
Rangers - Nope.
Investigation complete.

There's no way Campbell Ogilvie would do that, surely?

[Ozyhibby]

What is obvious is that they need cash double quick. It looks like they only have funding for days or weeks rather than months ahead.

[CropleyWasGod]

There's no way Campbell Ogilvie would do that, surely?

He's not involved with any of them, sadly.

Besides, he's too busy warding off irate Hibbies in StennyGate.:cb

[VivaHiberña]

I don't think this has been posted yet, I'm sure there are some folk on here who can't stand Campbell for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's a good deconstruction of their "same club" s***e (http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neerday-game/) (it's also almost entirely politics-free).

[monktonharp]

I don't think this has been posted yet, I'm sure there are some folk on here who can't stand Campbell for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's a good deconstruction of their "same club" s***e (http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neerday-game/) (it's also almost entirely politics-free). there are some on here, that don't like him, so much that we cant call him by his first name, 2nd name, or even both of his names:wink:

[VivaHiberña]

there are some on here, that don't like him, so much that we cant call him by his first name, 2nd name, or even both of his names:wink:

:hilarious Doesn't surprise me, I take it you just keep it pally and call him "the Rev"?



























:fishin:

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think this has been posted yet, I'm sure there are some folk on here who can't stand Campbell for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's a good deconstruction of their "same club" s***e (http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neerday-game/) (it's also almost entirely politics-free).

Like everything else said about the subject, though, it's an opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

Like everything else said about the subject, though, it's an opinion.

That one Rangers voted on another Rangers is fact though.

[brog]

I don't think this has been posted yet, I'm sure there are some folk on here who can't stand Campbell for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's a good deconstruction of their "same club" s***e (http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-neerday-game/) (it's also almost entirely politics-free).

I'm not a big fan of his but this is a good article. I was astonished at Doncaster's statement & even more astonished that no one asked the question, " if the The Rangers are the same club why did they have to apply to be accepted into the 4th tier of Scottish football"? As the author says, there was no football or SFA punishment which brought about their demotion, if they were the same club they would have remained in the top tier.

[StevieC]

I'm not a big fan of his but this is a good article. I was astonished at Doncaster's statement & even more astonished that no one asked the question, " if the The Rangers are the same club why did they have to apply to be accepted into the 4th tier of Scottish football"? As the author says, there was no football or SFA punishment which brought about their demotion, if they were the same club they would have remained in the top tier.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we have to accept it's the same club. The legal aspects of it are obviously questionable but football isn't about legalities, it's about the passion. And obviously that passion (loyalty, etc.) is in the hearts and minds of the supporters.
If the same had happened to Hibs (when we were almost killed off by the Mercer take-over) I doubt there would be a single Hibs supporter out there that wouldn't have viewed a "new" Hibs entering the lower leagues as "their" team?

In the case of the SPFL, it suits them to view The Rangers as the "same" club as they can not only hold them to their footballing debts (a move which goes against the legal stance) but they can also carry out any disciplinary actions as "further" punishment (eg the 25 point penalty for a second administration).

I don't like it, and Doncaster should have been made to squirm during the interview, but I think we have to (inwardly) accept it.

[Lofarl]

No we do not. Here is a article written by a Jambo. Posted on all places a Celtic website. It makes for a good read.

http://celticfanzone.net/neil-doncaster-youre-kidding-no-one/

[Keith_M]

If this thread is going to descend into a Same Club/ New Club debate, then I think I'll give it a miss for a while............





:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

If this thread is going to descend into a Same Club/ New Club debate, then I think I'll give it a miss for a while



:wink:

Me too..... my bit is said. :greengrin

[Smartie]

No we do not. Here is a article written by a Jambo. Posted on all places a Celtic website. It makes for a good read.

http://celticfanzone.net/neil-doncaster-youre-kidding-no-one/

From that article.......

"I don’t understand why Hearts and almost every other club in Scotland are trying to live within their means when they should be actively pursuing the purchases of Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, etc in order to ‘break world records’, then go bust and shed the massive debt before repeating the exercise all over again."

What a difference a year makes eh? Utterly vomit inducing.

What exactly gives the Jambos the moral high-ground over their cousins on this one? That their creditors accepted f-all meaning that they achieved a CVA rather than being liquidated?

Or, the usual, total delusion, and that they have no right to pontificate to anyone.

Sorry to go off-topic but FFS that got me going!

[hibees 7062]

From that article.......

"I don’t understand why Hearts and almost every other club in Scotland are trying to live within their means when they should be actively pursuing the purchases of Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, etc in order to ‘break world records’, then go bust and shed the massive debt before repeating the exercise all over again."

What a difference a year makes eh? Utterly vomit inducing.

What exactly gives the Jambos the moral high-ground over their cousins on this one? That their creditors accepted f-all meaning that they achieved a CVA rather than being liquidated?

Or, the usual, total delusion, and that they have no right to pontificate to anyone.

Sorry to go off-topic but FFS that got me going!

:top marksBeat me to it

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12204364.html


Ashley gets another Sports Direct Loyalist on the Board

[emerald green]

I'm seeing that SPFL were unaware of The Rangers' potential winding up order from HMRC, due to falling behind on payment of of PAYE and NI payments, but nonetheless has said (already) they are satisfied that The Ibrox club has not breached any rules, and that a "default event" has not occurred. Well, that was quick.

Livingston however were docked 5 points and fined £10,000 by the SPFL after they volunteered information to the governing body that their former CEO failed to disclose bonus payments made to players which were not subject to taxation.

If true, this stinks to high heaven. But no surprise.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm seeing that SPFL were unaware of The Rangers' potential winding up order from HMRC, due to falling behind on payment of of PAYE and NI payments, but nonetheless has said (already) they are satisfied that The Ibrox club has not breached any rules, and that a "default event" has not occurred. Well, surprise surprise. That was quick.

Livingston however were docked 5 points and fined £10,000 by the SPFL after they volunteered information to the governing body that their former CEO failed to disclose bonus payments made to players which were not subject to taxation.

If true, this stinks to high heaven. But no surprise.
Maybe....just maybe...there wasn't any winding up order. Maybe the SPFL have actually researched the facts and discounted the Twattersphere.

Sadly, they might be right this time.

[VivaHiberña]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we have to accept it's the same club. The legal aspects of it are obviously questionable but football isn't about legalities, it's about the passion. And obviously that passion (loyalty, etc.) is in the hearts and minds of the supporters.
If the same had happened to Hibs (when we were almost killed off by the Mercer take-over) I doubt there would be a single Hibs supporter out there that wouldn't have viewed a "new" Hibs entering the lower leagues as "their" team?

In the case of the SPFL, it suits them to view The Rangers as the "same" club as they can not only hold them to their footballing debts (a move which goes against the legal stance) but they can also carry out any disciplinary actions as "further" punishment (eg the 25 point penalty for a second administration).

I don't like it, and Doncaster should have been made to squirm during the interview, but I think we have to (inwardly) accept it.

I actually agree with you in a sense, you support a football team, not a legal entity. So while it is a different club in legal terms, the "spirit" of the old club, the bit that really matters, is clearly the same (ie they're still c***s). Winding them up, is however, just too much fun.



If this thread is going to descend into a Same Club/ New Club debate, then I think I'll give it a miss for a while............

Sorry...

[emerald green]

Maybe....just maybe...there wasn't any winding up order. Maybe the SPFL have actually researched the facts and discounted the Twattersphere.

Sadly, they might be right this time.

Sadly, you may be right too. It was just something I read online. No doubt the truth of the matter will emerge eventually.

[CropleyWasGod]

In other news, Dave King takes on Simon Pia as his media adviser. ......😈

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-crisis-sandy-easdale-loan-4921022

[brog]

Maybe....just maybe...there wasn't any winding up order. Maybe the SPFL have actually researched the facts and discounted the Twattersphere.

Sadly, they might be right this time.

BBC news just before 7 tonight reported again that part of the loan from Easdale was to meet a tax bill & that a winding up order had been issued by HMRC. They used words such as 'confirmed' in their report & didn't seem to have any doubts re the accuracy of their source/comments. I agree however it doesn't make sense unless HMRC are all over Newco as a result of last misdemeanours & the big tax case dispute. The other scenario of course is that Newco are telling porkies!

[greenginger]

One thing we have learned from Rangers 2012 and the Yams was if they are scrambling around to find the money to pay HMRC there will be a list of other creditors as long as your arm with no chance of seeing their money.

Glasgow Business Rates, police charges, gas and electricity and all the usual small businesses will be one like kippers once again.

[brog]

BBC news just before 7 tonight reported again that part of the loan from Easdale was to meet a tax bill & that a winding up order had been issued by HMRC. They used words such as 'confirmed' in their report & didn't seem to have any doubts re the accuracy of their source/comments. I agree however it doesn't make sense unless HMRC are all over Newco as a result of last misdemeanours & the big tax case dispute. The other scenario of course is that Newco are telling porkies!

Its also on BBC website. Sorry can't copy from IPad.

[greenginger]

This one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30678270

[CropleyWasGod]

BBC news just before 7 tonight reported again that part of the loan from Easdale was to meet a tax bill & that a winding up order had been issued by HMRC. They used words such as 'confirmed' in their report & didn't seem to have any doubts re the accuracy of their source/comments. I agree however it doesn't make sense unless HMRC are all over Newco as a result of last misdemeanours & the big tax case dispute. The other scenario of course is that Newco are telling porkies!

Yet they're still talking about a "National Insurance" debt. That part is nonsense.

Oh for a world where journalists get their stories right.

[Smartie]

Will there be many debts to small businesses? Surely any small business worth their salt would insist on cash up front when doing business with an institution with a track record like theirs, same club or different club? They've not exactly been short of cash until now.

Any small business offering that shower of crooks credit facilities pretty much deserves to be shafted.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will there be many debts to small businesses? Surely any small business worth their salt would insist on cash up front when doing business with an institution with a track record like theirs, same club or different club? They've not exactly been short of cash until now.

Any small business offering that shower of crooks credit facilities pretty much deserves to be shafted.

I read this argument on a Hearts-related thread as well.

I can't agree. It's a new company, with new owners, directors and staff. Why would a small business, which doesn't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose its customers, refuse to deal with them?

[greenginger]

I read this argument on a Hearts-related thread as well.

I can't agree. It's a new company, with new owners, directors and staff. Why would a small business, which doesn't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose its customers, refuse to deal with them?

If one of your clients phones you up tomorrow and says he has just had an order from The Rangers for £ 20,000 worth of goods, and says , What should I do ? I need to get payment in 30 days for my own cash flow. :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

If one of your clients phones you up tomorrow and says he has just had an order from The Rangers for £ 20,000 worth of goods, and says , What should I do ? I need to get payment in 30 days for my own cash flow. :cb
I'd tell him to get the cash up front, of course. ...and demand some vouchers for Sports Direct.

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.

[greenginger]

I'd tell him to get the cash up front, of course. ...and demand some vouchers for Sports Direct.

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.


I'm with the Leopards don't change their spots point of view. Maybe it should be lepers if we are talking about the PBS as well. :greengrin

[CB_NO3]

Rangers reject the offer from the Yank. Interesting times ahead. There is 4 different parties wanting control and no one is willing to let their share go. They are in a real mess again.

[gorgie greens]

Rangers reject the offer from the Yank. Interesting times ahead. There is 4 different parties wanting control and no one is willing to let their share go. They are in a real mess again.

And long may it continue :greengrin

[EdinMike]

For anyone who wants to read into it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822

[Spike Mandela]

So, assets bought for less than £5.5m 3 years ago, a loss making company every year since but an £18m offer 'undervalues' the Ibrox outfit?(notice it doesn't say company:greengrin) Couldn't make it up.

[Smartie]

I'd tell him to get the cash up front, of course. ...and demand some vouchers for Sports Direct.

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.

I think that would have been fair enough 2 years or so ago. They'd have to get a wee bit of a track record of paying for things - in cash, up front - before being offered credit facilities and to be fair they have been fairly cash-rich and able to pay until quite recently.

The problem for them is that their finances play out in public. Anyone could have seen that they were going to run out of money eventually although it has happened sooner than expected. We've all seen this coming so I'd be amazed if those who actually do business with them haven't.

[jacomo]

From that article.......

"I don’t understand why Hearts and almost every other club in Scotland are trying to live within their means when they should be actively pursuing the purchases of Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, etc in order to ‘break world records’, then go bust and shed the massive debt before repeating the exercise all over again."

What a difference a year makes eh? Utterly vomit inducing.

What exactly gives the Jambos the moral high-ground over their cousins on this one? That their creditors accepted f-all meaning that they achieved a CVA rather than being liquidated?

Or, the usual, total delusion, and that they have no right to pontificate to anyone.

Sorry to go off-topic but FFS that got me going!

It's the kind of long-winded, pompous, self-justifying nonsense that Shaun Lawson used to inflict on us. Has he found a new audience?

If true to form, he'll turn on them in a few months and start lecturing Celtc fans about their own club.

[jacomo]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we have to accept it's the same club. The legal aspects of it are obviously questionable but football isn't about legalities, it's about the passion. And obviously that passion (loyalty, etc.) is in the hearts and minds of the supporters.
If the same had happened to Hibs (when we were almost killed off by the Mercer take-over) I doubt there would be a single Hibs supporter out there that wouldn't have viewed a "new" Hibs entering the lower leagues as "their" team?

In the case of the SPFL, it suits them to view The Rangers as the "same" club as they can not only hold them to their footballing debts (a move which goes against the legal stance) but they can also carry out any disciplinary actions as "further" punishment (eg the 25 point penalty for a second administration).

I don't like it, and Doncaster should have been made to squirm during the interview, but I think we have to (inwardly) accept it.

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons.

[ballengeich]

For anyone who wants to read into it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822

An interesting phrase - "loans in the short term and possibly equity in the medium term".

Rather than rush into a share issue, is the board going to allow Ashley to grab whatever assets he can?

[ballengeich]

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons.

That's a good summing up. I stay out of same club debates as people are using different meanings for the word "club".

As I understand it, in law a club is something distinct from and less formal than a registered company. Rangers wasn't a club before 2012 and isn't one now. It's a registered company operating a football business. In a court the question "Is Rangers the same beer mat as before 2012" would make as much sense.

In the less regulated environment of football discussion we generally use the word club to cover a football team, its supporters and ground.

[Smartie]

They are the same club for me.

But the price they have to pay for that is a sentence to be spent in the lower leagues for as long as it take them to get out, and to be forever teased as to whether or not they are the same club.

[Bad Martini]

I dreamed for years (and said they would) eventually get theirs...when it happened, elated and overjoyed doesn't even come close to describing the euphoric feeling of divine brawness I felt.

If it happens again...:not worth:aok::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cheating *******s.

ENDOF

[CropleyWasGod]

That's a good summing up. I stay out of same club debates as people are using different meanings for the word "club".

As I understand it, in law a club is something distinct from and less formal than a registered company. Rangers wasn't a club before 2012 and isn't one now. It's a registered company operating a football business. In a court the question "Is Rangers the same beer mat as before 2012" would make as much sense.

In the less regulated environment of football discussion we generally use the word club to cover a football team, its supporters and ground.

I have to disagree.

Included in the fiver that Sevco 1690 paid for the HunBrand was 32pence for beermats.

[patlowe]

My only real concerns in all of this are as follows - is there any turn of events in this merrydance that could allow Rangers to sort themselves out and actually improve their squad in the January window or is that completely out of the question given the circumstances? Conversely, are they likely to need to sell playing "assets" to keep things ticking over in the next few weeks while all this plays out?

I ask because, as things stand, IMO they remain the biggest barrier to us going up with Hearts.

[CropleyWasGod]

My only real concerns in all of this are as follows - is there any turn of events in this merrydance that could allow Rangers to sort themselves out and actually improve their squad in the January window or is that completely out of the question given the circumstances? Conversely, are they likely to need to sell playing "assets" to keep things ticking over in the next few weeks while all this plays out?

I ask because, as things stand, IMO they remain the biggest barrier to us going up with Hearts.

It's possible, but unlikely. 2 scenarios:-

1. they get the share issue underway, subscribed and paid for in the next 3 weeks. There are probably Stock Exchange rules on this, but I would doubt there is enough time.

2. they get megaloans from the current characters, to be repaid in the form of shares when the share issue actually happens.

[essexhibee]

See the rumours over Rangers way that Zaliukas hasn't played because he has a serious drink problem. Off topic apologies but interesting!

[Ozyhibby]

They are much more likely to sell than buy players.

[KeithTheHibby]

See the rumours over Rangers way that Zaliukas hasn't played because he has a serious drink problem. Off topic apologies but interesting!

I had forgotten all about that horrible canut. Glad to see he is stealing a wage from them all the same.

[Sergey]

I just caught a bit on Radio 5 Live where they interviewed some solicitor fellow who was the ex-chairman at Partick Thistle. He thinks that the current black-hole at Rangers could easily be upwards of £20M.

[Keith_M]

.....

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.


But I thought you were on the 'same Club' side of the argument?

:wink:

Surely they should be wary, if that's the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

But I thought you were on the 'same Club' side of the argument?

:wink:

Surely they should be wary, if that's the case.

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.

[southsider]

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.

I am more of a once bitten twice shy sort.

[Spike Mandela]

I am more of a once bitten twice shy sort.

I would go as far to say anybody who trades with current Rangers setup and doesn't demand money up front or with some sort of security is a fool.

That goes for Hearts as well.

[lapsedhibee]

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.

Perhaps not so much different people as different peepul?

[ancient hibee]

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.
They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

[bingo70]

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Do you think admin is the most likely outcome here?

[ancient hibee]

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you think admin is the most likely outcome here?
Hard to say without looking into the heads of everyone involved. There's a lot of game playing which just flies over my head.

If I had to pick one likely scenario, it would be the one where the current Board keep topping up the cash with loans, in order to buy time until the share issue can be organised.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.
Even the Sun King (no relation to Dave) in Arizona?

[Ronniekirk]

Spoke to an intelligent professional Rangers fan today who is adamant that the current management team will be emptied before the end of the month Surely they can't afford this ? Is she just at the wind up :confused:

[jonty]

Spoke to an intelligent professional Rangers fan today who is adamant that the current management team will be emptied before the end of the month Surely they can't afford this ? Is she just at the wind up :confused:

Or a month late to the party

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561


Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30395680)


kin boooo

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561


Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30395680)


kin boooo

They are spending £1.8m a month so that money only keeps the lights on an extra couple of days.

[Weststandwanab]

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.

Why would a free for all start ?


They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Ashley offer more than was absolutely necessary ?



Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.

He could but will not need to.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561


Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30395680)


kin boooo

Clutching at the straws of desperation.

[PatHead]

Dundee Utd had paid £72,000 as a downpayment. Why would they pay an extra £200,000 now?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561


Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30395680)


kin boooo

[Weststandwanab]

Dundee Utd had paid £72,000 as a downpayment. Why would they pay an extra £200,000 now?

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg
Read it again[emoji6]

[Weststandwanab]

Read it again[emoji6]

I only read I once - that is all it deserved - what did I miss ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I only read I once - that is all it deserved - what did I miss ?
United were ordered to pay 200k. They had already paid 72k. So, as PH says, why another 200k?

Some discount [emoji6]

[monktonharp]

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons. your confusing me, baggage.....old history.......same baggage.....same history.......same old songs......same old rangers fans.......different, or shall we say newco.?

[Weststandwanab]

United were ordered to pay 200k. They had already paid 72k. So, as PH says, why another 200k?

Some discount [emoji6]

If remember correctly they agreed to pay £72k but never got around to it, were subsequently ordered to pay £200k or face a tribunal. where it may have gone against them and today (as far as I am led to believe) were offered a full and final settlement of £200k.

The discount is assessed versus the probable settlement that would be imposed by any tribunal.


Thomson is not daft.

[kaimendhibs]

Tin hat on. No idea why they would, but feel Sevco are encouraging an insolvency event! They seem to be intent on self destruction, part of a bigger plan perhaps?

[banchoryhibs]

A hun colleague was at Ibrox yesterday to purchase some testimonial ticket - they would only accept cash - no card payments!

They are indeed in deep doo doo.

I would not be surprised if some pre-pack administration deal was round the corner. If they are struggling to pay HMRC what chances of paying the next lot of wages?

:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

If remember correctly they agreed to pay £72k but never got around to it, were subsequently ordered to pay £200k or face a tribunal. where it may have gone against them and today (as far as I am led to believe) were offered a full and final settlement of £200k.

The discount is assessed versus the probable settlement that would be imposed by any tribunal.


Thomson is not daft.
It was a tribunal that decided on 204k.

I suspect that the BBC report is wrong, and that DU actually paid the balance yesterday, ie 132k.

[Ronniekirk]

Or a month late to the party

I know it's only the Sun Reporting it ,but saying Ian Cathro being discussed as Rangers New Head Coach Currently Assisstant at Valencia .Confirms what my rangers supporting colleague tod me yesterday .Is this forward planning and some speculation or is there something in rumour that management change will happen before the end of the month

[Newry Hibs]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30706619

Derek Llambias assures SPFL that there is no administration looming.

So that's OK then. Thread can be closed.

[Weststandwanab]

It was a tribunal that decided on 204k.

I suspect that the BBC report is wrong, and that DU actually paid the balance yesterday, ie 132k.

I suspect you are correct.


I know it's only the Sun Reporting it ,but saying Ian Cathro being discussed as Rangers New Head Coach Currently Assisstant at Valencia .Confirms what my rangers supporting colleague tod me yesterday .Is this forward planning and some speculation or is there something in rumour that management change will happen before the end of the month

I think the most likely change before the end of the month will be an insolvency event.

[greenlex]

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg is this like when Hearts said they were self sufficient?

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30706619

Derek Llambias assures SPFL that there is no administration looming.

So that's OK then. Thread can be closed.

TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.

[StevieC]

TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.

Just google "Derek Llambias Newcastle United" to find out how he conducted himself during his time at Newcastle, and what the fans thought of him.

Rangers are stating that they need fresh funding by the end of January, so any statement saying that administration is unlikely is based on the presumption that they receive fresh funding.

[Callum_62]

Just google "Derek Llambias Newcastle United" to find out how he conducted himself during his time at Newcastle, and what the fans thought of him.

Rangers are stating that they need fresh funding by the end of January, so any statement saying that administration is unlikely is based on the presumption that they receive fresh funding.

:agree:

Good enough for the SPFL though

Imagine the uproar if they were deducted 25 points and missed the play offs

[Spike Mandela]

:agree:

Good enough for the SPFL though

Imagine the uproar if they were deducted 25 points and missed the play offs

I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.

[Jack Hackett]

I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.

The old saying about leopards changing their spots comes to mind

[Bostonhibby]

A hun colleague was at Ibrox yesterday to purchase some testimonial ticket - they would only accept cash - no card payments!

They are indeed in deep doo doo.

I would not be surprised if some pre-pack administration deal was round the corner. If they are struggling to pay HMRC what chances of paying the next lot of wages?

:cb
The rangers bumping their majesty again? Surely not. Whatever will their "loyal" fans make of this?

Practically treason against all they seem to stand for to rob the very institution that is at the heart of all they sing about, not once but twice.

[Peevemor]

The old saying about leopards changing their spots comes to mind

Or their spats... :greengrin


http://pdtest2.241webhosting.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bass-drummer-leopard-skin.jpg

[Callum_62]

I can almost feel the social unrest.

[Dan Sarf]

Rangers midfielder to follow Macleod?
Rangers midfielder Arnold Peralta has been linked with a move to Brentford, following in the footsteps of former teammate Lewis Macleod.
With Rangers needing to raise funds due to their financial woes, it is likely that they will have to offload players this transfer window.
Peralta is a strong, quick winger, who will inject some added pace to the team.

(From "Beesotted", Brentford fans site)

[PatHead]

What a brass neck!

"Rangers rejected American Robert Sarver's £18m buy-out offer but then asked the banker for a short-term loan to help them out of their financial troubles. (Star)"


:faf:

[Weststandwanab]

is this like when Hearts said they were self sufficient?

Indeed !


TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.

The dreaded vote of con fidence


I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.

Would that be lessons learned for a second time ?


Rangers midfielder to follow Macleod?
Rangers midfielder Arnold Peralta has been linked with a move to Brentford, following in the footsteps of former teammate Lewis Macleod.
With Rangers needing to raise funds due to their financial woes, it is likely that they will have to offload players this transfer window.
Peralta is a strong, quick winger, who will inject some added pace to the team.

(From "Beesotted", Brentford fans site)


One of quite a few I suspect.

[Keith_M]

..........
I think the most likely change before the end of the month will be an insolvency event.


You have previous in the Hearts debacle for insisting they would be liquidated.

Don't put your head on the line again.

[Weststandwanab]

You have previous in the Hearts debacle for insisting they would be liquidated.

Don't put your head on the line again.


I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !

[KeithTheHibby]

I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !


I fail to see the difference.

[Keith_M]

I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !



A bit touchy aren't you.



:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

People get things wrong all the time. It's no big deal.
I've been overly optimistic about Hibs prospects for 5 years now. I'm big enough to admit I was wrong.
This year I'm on track to call it spot on although there is still time for us to go on a great run and win the play offs to promotion and make me look overly pessimistic this year.
C'mon Hibs, make a dick of me again.

[CropleyWasGod]

What a brass neck!

"Rangers rejected American Robert Sarver's £18m buy-out offer but then asked the banker for a short-term loan to help them out of their financial troubles. (Star)"


:faf:

I can see their point.

They're trying to buy time, by whatever means possible. If that means asking the Sun King for a loan, in the hope that he will buy into the share issue, it's worth a shot.

That said, if I were him, I'd tell them to stick it where his basketball team doesn't shine.

[ancient hibee]

Even the Sun King (no relation to Dave) in Arizona?

I read that Ashley's net wealth is £2.5 billion which makes it all more surprising that he can be bothered with a tuppence ha'penny outfit up here.On the other hand it's maybe doing that sort of thing that's made him worth £2.5 billion in the first place.

[jacomo]

I read that Ashley's net wealth is £2.5 billion which makes it all more surprising that he can be bothered with a tuppence ha'penny outfit up here.On the other hand it's maybe doing that sort of thing that's made him worth £2.5 billion in the first place.

:agree:

I really have no idea what life is like with that amount of wealth :boo hoo: but they do say that very rich people don't get that way by being reckless with their money.

[AndyM_1875]

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?

[Callum_62]

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?

really do wonder what the motivations are

will definately get them out of the immediate large hole they are in

Hopefully it drags on till much later in the transfer window

Altho, dont imagine due diligence etc will be a short procedure

[Ronniekirk]

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

[Moulin Yarns]

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

Love this talk of 'debt free'. He is lending them £6.5 million, that has to be repaid, so is a debt!!

[andrew70]

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

Or Sarver is Ashley's man and his way of ensuring he keeps control. I certainly don't believe that Sarver is the Saviour as if he was, where has he been up until now? David Robertson and whoever else has apparently "alerted" him to this situation have been well aware of whats been going on for years. The Rangers fans who think this man is coming along and is going to make everything so much better for them are very much mistaken in my opinion.

[Ronniekirk]

really do wonder what the motivations are

will definately get them out of the immediate large hole they are in

Hopefully it drags on till much later in the transfer window

Altho, dont imagine due diligence etc will be a short procedure
Due diligence is a fine principall but as we have seen with this ongoing shabby fiasco it doesn't seem toga e stopped people getting control who have turned out to be fraudsters and don't have the Clubs best interests at heart Whyte Green Easdales and Ashley have hardly taken the club forward Plenty are and have made money out the Clubs predicament and no one to date has been able to stop that .Whether this new guy can is not clear and he may be willing to bail them out with a view to getting money back with interest further down the line and allowing as he puts it local business men to become involved like the three bears for eg but you have to wonder at this stage why he would be such a Philanthropist so would expect this to run a while yet

[Kavinho]

Or Sarver is Ashley's man and his way of ensuring he keeps control. I certainly don't believe that Sarver is the Saviour as if he was, where has he been up until now? David Robertson and whoever else has apparently "alerted" him to this situation have been well aware of whats been going on for years. The Rangers fans think this man is coming along and is going to make everything so much better for them are very much mistaken in my opinion.


Don't know likes..
Think it's far too early to be that definite in an opinion.

At the end of the day, multiple American franchise owner (2?!), commercially aware, and a Banker to boot.

My thoughts are that He'll be looking at Rangers in much the same way the Glazers looked at Man U.

[AndyM_1875]

Sarver has no connection to Mike Ashley, andrew.

The Bluenoses I talk to think this season is gone anyway. Hearts consistency and Hibs ruthlessly dismantling Rangers twice has brought that fact crashing home to any doubters. They'll be in the Championship for another year on account of the simple fact that there are two better teams than them. Most accept that they are an absolute basket case right now both on and off the park. The bright spot is that the high contracts of Black, Shiels, Miller and McCulloch (players with no resale value) all run out in June.

If they are bought over and the correct work is done both behind the scenes and in terms of proper player recruitment (signings below a fixed level and all aged under 25) it gives then the chance to restructure and go for the Championship title in 2016.

[Spike Mandela]

Rangers fans only see £ signs and will get behind anybody the media attatches the biggest number to.

This guy is the latest saviour as was Bill Miller. Once he started 'looking under the bonnet' he walked away. Only a fool would throw money at Rangers imo.

[AndyM_1875]

but you have to wonder at this stage why he would be such a Philanthropist so would expect this to run a while yet

I don't think he's a philanthropist at all Ronnie. He's an ambitious sports club owner who is perhaps looking to pick up on the cheap a club with a strong identity that will one day compete in the group stages of the Champions League. With the best will in the world that's only going to happen with 2 clubs in Scotland.

[Kavinho]

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle


Its the 2nd offer, as he's upped it to 20mil from 18m, but in any event, it's for the board to recommend the offer, and if they do put it to all shareholders to vote on, with a requirement of 75% in favour to pass it.

Ashley owns c9%.

[CropleyWasGod]

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-need-know-boardroom-battle-4941494

[Weststandwanab]

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-need-know-boardroom-battle-4941494

As I said the most likely change this week is an insolvency event

[jacomo]

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-need-know-boardroom-battle-4941494

The Daily Ranger are now interviewing one of their journos as if he was an expert commentator? Is this a new low?

The irony is that Mike Ashley's wealth genuinely is 'off the radar' - has Jackson noticed?

[CropleyWasGod]

The Daily Ranger are now interviewing one of their journos as if he was an expert commentator? Is this a new low?

The irony is that Mike Ashley's wealth genuinely is 'off the radar' - has Jackson noticed?

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSM who were actually making noises about Whyte.

[Jack Hackett]

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSN who were actually making noises about Whyte.

:agree:

In a different league from his former colleague 'Jabba' Traynor. I wonder what the chubby freak is up to now?....Not that I care. I just hope it's something in line with his talents. Cleaning the bogs at a MaccaD somewhere hopefully

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:

In a different league from his former colleague 'Jabba' Traynor. I wonder what the chubby freak is up to now?....Not that I care. I just hope it's something in line with his talents. Cleaning the bogs at a MaccaD somewhere hopefully

Pr man for the 3 bears I think

[Deansy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561


Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30395680)


kin boooo

Not just that but the Hun actually had the temerity to send Utd a REMINDER !! Behaviour akin to Nick Leeson sending a letter to 'Barings Bank' asking what's happened to his pension !! !!

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=277948


Personally, if I was Stephen Thompson I'd plead 'Cash-flow problems/poverty' for the courts to arrange repayment at a piddling amount a week - a fiver would do !!

[Springbank]

Keith Jackson's piece.. Rangers had owners called green and whyte and now they have a NOMAD called Ireland
:aok:

[jacomo]

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSM who were actually making noises about Whyte.

Most of the noises were of him back pedalling furiously after he realised that the guy he introduced to the Rangers fans as the Messiah wasn't quite all he seemed...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-1076110

[Smartie]

Most of the noises were of him back pedalling furiously after he realised that the guy he introduced to the Rangers fans as the Messiah wasn't quite all he seemed...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-1076110

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?

[Spike Mandela]

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?

Any credibility Jackson had exited stage left the day he wrote that piece.

The term "off the radar" will follow him to his grave.:greengrin

[jacomo]

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?

I wonder the same about Jim Traynor and his ludicrous keyboard warrior spell as Director of Comms at Der Nueur Hun. So seething, so self-righteous, and so short lived once the people he was defending turned on him.

[BoomtownHibees]

Offering a £6.5m loan that needs to be repaid within 90 days? Where is that money going to come from, season ticket money??

[ScottB]

Offering a £6.5m loan that needs to be repaid within 90 days? Where is that money going to come from, season ticket money??

I believe it would be converted into shares...

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I wonder the same about Jim Traynor and his ludicrous keyboard warrior spell as Director of Comms at Der Nueur Hun. So seething, so self-righteous, and so short lived once the people he was defending turned on him.

Ahh good old Jim Traynor, where is he hiding these days? Horrible creature

[The_Exile]

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.

[CropleyWasGod]

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.

Not sure that would be allowed.

Even if it is, I'm sure HMRC and others would race them to the Court.

[PatHead]

Not sure that would be allowed.

Even if it is, I'm sure HMRC and others would race them to the Court.

Maybe they are getting confused with USC who have appointed Duff and Phelps as administrators. (They are owned by Ashley)

[portycabbage]

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-powerbroker-mike-ashley-appoints-4943555

Called into USC though!

[Callum_62]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-bayern-munich-boss-felix-magath-4945747#rlabs=4

"Now he could be ready to weave his magic again as the Godfather of Govan in what would be one of the boldest and most audacious appointments in the history of the Scottish game."

:cb

[Spike Mandela]

The Daily Record has had a major Rangers story every day for 3 years. Even when in 3rd division the paper has been the most loyal of servants and whilst other tabloids backed off a little the Record always elevated a Rangers story to back page headlines.

It truly has shown it's colours as a Rangers fanzine and a paper of 'ra peepel'

[ballengeich]

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-need-know-boardroom-battle-4941494

The article contains a specific statement that Rangers need £6.5m cash within 48 hours. I can't think of anything that size which could be due in such a short time, so let's see what happens.

[grunt]

The article contains a specific statement that Rangers need £6.5m cash within 48 hours. I can't think of anything that size which could be due in such a short time, so let's see what happens.

It's a classic "football-writer-submits-business-story" article.
Pure guff and speculation.

[Keith_M]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-bayern-munich-boss-felix-magath-4945747#rlabs=4

"Now he could be ready to weave his magic again as the Godfather of Govan in what would be one of the boldest and most audacious appointments in the history of the Scottish game."




So we have:

The Krays
The King
The Three Bears
The Godfather of Govan

Any nicknames for Ashley yet?

[Weststandwanab]

So we have:

The Krays
The King
The Three Bears
The Godfather of Govan

Any nicknames for Ashley yet?

The Terminator !

[jacomo]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-bayern-munich-boss-felix-magath-4945747#rlabs=4

"Now he could be ready to weave his magic again as the Godfather of Govan in what would be one of the boldest and most audacious appointments in the history of the Scottish game."

:cb

Most bizarre twist yet? Felix Magath FFS.

[Gmack7]

So we have:

The Krays
The King
The Three Bears
The Godfather of Govan

Any nicknames for Ashley yet?
the terminator

[jacomo]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-powerbroker-mike-ashley-appoints-4943555

Called into USC though!

Some redundancies at the USC warehouse in Ayrshire, apparently. That won't help Ashley's reputation with the fans. :wink:

[Spike Mandela]

The article contains a specific statement that Rangers need £6.5m cash within 48 hours. I can't think of anything that size which could be due in such a short time, so let's see what happens.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/off-the-radar-debt/

[Callum_62]

I would love it, if come next week - admin II is upon us

Still, at least Llambias assumed the FPFL everything is sweet

[erin go bragh]

Piece in the Natinal paper regarding this American billionaire ( Robert Sarver )upping his bid to 20 m .
The soap opera continues .

Ggtth

[Keith_M]

The Terminator !


That'll do me


:aok:

[ancient hibee]

Most bizarre twist yet? Felix Magath FFS.


A Hun at Ibrox??Whatever next.

[PatHead]

A Hun at Ibrox??Whatever next.

:thumbsup:

[AndyM_1875]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/off-the-radar-debt/

Ah Phil..... he really never disappoints when you're looking for a myopic sneering waste of space talking absolute horlicks.

[Spike Mandela]

Ah Phil..... he really never disappoints when you're looking for a myopic sneering waste of space talking absolute horlicks.

............and right on cue.:greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

............and right on cue.:greengrin

I never tire pointing out what an absolute spoofer he is! ;)

[Cropley10]

I never tire pointing out what an absolute spoofer he is! ;)

All about opinions I guess.

The problem with the Rangers situation is that the whole thing has been set up to not make RFC succeed but to line the pockets of the spivs.

We will have to wait and see whether there is a £6.5m debt due from something that was well concealed previously.

Phil is no more, or less, a spoofer than anyone else in the reporting of this saga...

[CropleyWasGod]

I never tire pointing out what an absolute spoofer he is! ;)
He had his uses in the early days when MSM wasn't telling these stories. Now, though, I wonder if he feels the need to be "ahead of the game" all the time. ...hence he latches on to rumours which have little substance; because it's him that is retelling the stories, his previous reputation gives them credibility.

That said, if this story is correct, Rangers' auditors will be looking out their insurance policies. [emoji33]

[Keith_M]

He had his uses in the early days when MSM wasn't telling these stories. Now, though, I wonder if he feels the need to be "ahead of the game" all the time. ...hence he latches on to rumours which have little substance; because it's him that is telling the stories, his previous reputation gives them credibility.

That said, if this story is correct, Rangers' audutors will be looking out their insurance policies. [emoji33]


I'm a bit confused as he didn't feel the need to provide the details as to what this unexpected new bill/debt was for.


Any ideas?

[greenginger]

He had his uses in the early days when MSM wasn't telling these stories. Now, though, I wonder if he feels the need to be "ahead of the game" all the time. ...hence he latches on to rumours which have little substance; because it's him that is retelling the stories, his previous reputation gives them credibility.

That said, if this story is correct, Rangers' auditors will be looking out their insurance policies. [emoji33]


Sure, but auditors can only audit what they have been told about or what is obvious from other public records.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm a bit confused as he didn't feel the need to provide the details as to what this unexpected new bill/debt was for.


Any ideas?
That's the big hole in the story for me.

I can't think what it could be.

[portycabbage]

Ah Phil..... he really never disappoints when you're looking for a myopic sneering waste of space talking absolute horlicks.

I must admit, his writing gives the impression he's completely up his own arse, and there seem to be plenty of replies below from people who are desperate to join him.

[greenginger]

That's the big hole in the story for me.

I can't think what it could be.


There was speculation on KDS it might have something to do with the original £ 5.5 million plus interest borrowed in 2012 to buy the club assets from Duff and Phelps.

Maybe some small print saying if the sum is'nt repaid by a certain date it falls due by by the Club.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sure, but auditors can only audit what they have been told about or what is obvious from other public records.
Of course, but that wouldn't stop someone from suing them. The point about the insurance policies was partly in jest. ....there may be a Hun Excess.

[CropleyWasGod]

There was speculation on KDS it might have something to do with the original £ 5.5 million plus interest borrowed in 2012 to buy the club assets from Duff and Phelps.

Maybe some small print saying if the sum is'nt repaid by a certain date it falls due by by the Club.
I saw that on Twitter.

However, that's too simple. The auditors would follow that transaction through. How much....how financed. ...how paid. If it wasn't paid, they would know and demand it be shown as a creditor.

[Cropley10]

I saw that on Twitter.

However, that's too simple. The auditors would follow that transaction through. How much....how financed. ...how paid. If it wasn't paid, they would know and demand it be shown as a creditor.

The suggestion appears to be that it was, or is, a side-letter, referred to elsewhere as 'incognito leverage'.

All normal rules in this saga don't apply CWG - Charles Green did not set up this Clumpany to benefit (the) Rangers fans - he set the whole thing up to benefit himself and others, IMHO.

The sheer amount of money TheRangers have got through since 2012 is testament to this.

[CropleyWasGod]

The suggestion appears to be that it was, or is, a side-letter, referred to elsewhere as 'incognito leverage'.

All normal rules in this saga don't apply CWG - Charles Green did not set up this Clumpany to benefit (the) Rangers fans - he set the whole thing up to benefit himself and others, IMHO.

The sheer amount of money TheRangers have got through since 2012 is testament to this.
I see that.

But some simple rules still apply. Either it was paid for or it wasn't. That should be straightforward enough for the auditors.

[Cropley10]

I see that.

But some simple rules still apply. Either it was paid for or it wasn't. That should be straightforward enough for the auditors.

So if auditors can only audit what's in front of them, and this side-letter wasn't in front of them, and it's now been handed to the Clumpany and the claim is valid?

[CropleyWasGod]

So if auditors can only audit what's in front of them, and this side-letter wasn't in front of them, and it's now been handed to the Clumpany and the claim is valid?
Think people are over thinking this.

Taking it from first principles:-

1. The purchase of the assets of OldCo/First Sevco is fundamental to the Balance Sheet.
2. The auditors therefore have to establish whether the purchase was valid, how it was financed, and whether it was paid for.
3. If they are able to do all that, the accounts reflect the evidence.
4. If they can't do that, their audit report will say so.

4 doesn't apply. Therefore there are only 3 possible scenarios.

1. The accounts are wrong, and the auditors didn't do their job properly.
2. The accounts are wrong, and the auditors were misled.
3. The accounts are right.

The talk of side letters is muck raking IMO, and deflects from the basics.

It's notable that not even Phil McG has said what the alleged debt relates to.

[Keith_M]

Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?

:dunno:

[Weststandwanab]

Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?


:dunno:

I would have to say there is every chance that the answer is Yes.

[CropleyWasGod]

Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?

:dunno:
If it's that simple, the auditors need shot. That wouldn't be "hiding", it would be incompetence.

[Weststandwanab]

If it's that simple, the auditors need shot. That wouldn't be "hiding", it would be incompetence.

Okay, I will ask the question, who were the auditors ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay, I will ask the question, who were the auditors ?
Deloittes I believe.

[hibeedonald]

Hearts to beat them next week at Ibrox is 12/5. Incredible odds when you consider how bad they actually are and that hearts have beat them twice.

[greenginger]

Deloittes I believe.


And they were paid plenty, so should know all the answers. :greengrin

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-news/rangers-auditors-paid-594000-non-audit-3071074

[grunt]

And they were paid plenty, so should know all the answers. :greengrin

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-news/rangers-auditors-paid-594000-non-audit-3071074
That's quite a story! £933k for Charles Green!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

I've had a quick skim of the accounts.

The only thing that sticks out is that there were a couple of claims relating to Craig Whyte. No financial value was placed on either, and they haven't been included in the accounts. The first was dismissed by RFC, after an investigation. The second has had no movement since July 13, and the club therefore reckon it's not going anywhere.

The auditors have agreed with the club's view of both claims, which seems reasonable to me.

It is possible that one or both of these have resurfaced. However, I can't see that that would have happened so quickly and without any Court movement.

[Cropley10]

I've had a quick skim of the accounts.

The only thing that sticks out is that there were a couple of claims relating to Craig Whyte. No financial value was placed on either, and they haven't been included in the accounts. The first was dismissed by RFC, after an investigation. The second has had no movement since July 13, and the club therefore reckon it's not going anywhere.

The auditors have agreed with the club's view of both claims, which seems reasonable to me.

It is possible that one or both of these have resurfaced. However, I can't see that that would have happened so quickly and without any Court movement.

It is highly likely that Whyte was duped by Green - the Police are now investigating the whole thing and it's also highly likely that Green left some timebombs.

The chat on Twitter is that - as Bomber Brown alluded to back in 2012 - the claim relates to ownership of or money due for Ibrox and/or Murray Park, via a side-letter that the auditors weren't privy to...

[Just Alf]

Sarvar bid rejected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30774504

Where now for them? :confused:

[EdinMike]

Sarvar bid rejected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30774504

Where now for them? :confused:

What are they waiting on/expecting ?! :confused:

[Ronniekirk]

What are they waiting on/expecting ?! :confused:

He has upped his bid once so bit of brinkmanship to test out how much he is prepared to go to .Who knows anymore but the unedifying spectacle continues to occupy the public glare ,and something has to get worked out soon unless it's more short term loans secured against what as surely there can't be much left they can put up for Security that they haven't already put up,

[CropleyWasGod]

He has upped his bid once so bit of brinkmanship to test out how much he is prepared to go to .Who knows anymore but the unedifying spectacle continues to occupy the public glare ,and something has to get worked out soon unless it's more short term loans secured against what as surely there can't be much left they can put up for Security that they haven't already put up,

There's been media speculation that Carver was going to join up with King and the 3 Bears. For that reason alone, Ashley probably wants nothing to do with him.

[bighairyfaeleith]

The currant bun we keep in the corner of the office reckons king is on his way to ibrox now, no idea why or what he plans to do ofcourse!!

[Keith_M]

There's been media speculation that Carver was going to join up with King and the 3 Bears. For that reason alone, Ashley probably wants nothing to do with him.


Proably, but Ashley has less than 10% of the shares, so couldn't block it on his own. They really should have put it to the Shareholders to decide, instead of rejecting it out of hand.

This smacks of yet more self-preservation on the part of the Easdales, et al. They'll only accept an offer that keeps them in their positions on the board(s).

[grunt]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/554614105395716096) Robert Sarvar pulls out of bid for Rangers after latest offer rejected. More soon on Radio Scotland #bbcsportscot (https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbcsportscot?src=hash)

[DaveF]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/554614105395716096) Robert Sarvar pulls out of bid for Rangers after latest offer rejected. More soon on Radio Scotland #bbcsportscot (https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbcsportscot?src=hash)

He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants :greengrin

[grunt]

He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants :greengrin
The £18m would have gone to the shareholders, not to the club.

[Iain G]

Proably, but Ashley has less than 10% of the shares, so couldn't block it on his own. They really should have put it to the Shareholders to decide, instead of rejecting it out of hand.

This smacks of yet more self-preservation on the part of the Easdales, et al. They'll only accept an offer that keeps them in their positions on the board(s).

They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are.

[overdrive]

The £18m would have gone to the shareholders, not to the club.

Not if he bought shares in us though, which I think was the point.

[Weststandwanab]

He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants :greengrin

I would rather he did not.


They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are.

Indeed they do it would appear.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not if he bought shares in us though, which I think was the point.

If he bought existing shares in us, then yes, the money would go to the existing shareholders.

[southsider]

If he bought existing shares in us, then yes, the money would go to the existing shareholders.

He can buy 50% of mine (400 shares). All for a total price of £2,000,000. I am sure AS will spend it wisely.

[kaimendhibs]

Someone like me who knows nowt about business and corporate finance could almost believe Sevco would welcome another insolvency event as they seem hellbent on making things worse/not making improvements

[CropleyWasGod]

Someone like me who knows nowt about business and corporate finance could almost believe Sevco would welcome another insolvency event as they seem hellbent on making things worse/not making improvements

Amongst all the theories and guesses that are going around, this is as valid as any.

[CropleyWasGod]

The £18m would have gone to the shareholders, not to the club.
Only some of it.

A large part of his offer was new funding. He has an interview in the Record this afternoon which clarifies things a bit.

[ancient hibee]

Rumour has it that Mr.Sarvar was unable to sing all the verses of The Sash when auditioned.

[Deansy]

They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are.

And hopefully when the trough's empty, they then start to eat the trough until it's beyond repair and scrapped !

[jacomo]

Someone like me who knows nowt about business and corporate finance could almost believe Sevco would welcome another insolvency event as they seem hellbent on making things worse/not making improvements

For the record, I'd welcome such an event too.

[monktonharp]

They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are. long may they feed:cb

[ballengeich]

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-need-know-boardroom-battle-4941494

So Rangers needed £6.5m within 48 hours. 4 days later, they haven't received £6.5m and they aren't in administration. Those of us who were sceptical about how a previously unforeseen need for this amount could have suddenly sprung up seem to have been justified in our doubts.

I can understand how Jackson got this wrong. He could have been given wrong information, either deliberately or in good faith, or he could simply have misunderstood something he was told. What I don't understand is his total lack of willingness to investigate the details of what the money was needed for, given that salaries are paid near to the end of the month. Now that his article appears to be wrong, he's behaving as if it had never been written.

That's not how a top journalist should do his job. The same goes for Keevins who was spinning the same line on Radio Clyde on Friday, but had forgotten about that by this evening. They're a pair of incompetents.

[Peevemor]

So Rangers needed £6.5m within 48 hours. 4 days later, they haven't received £6.5m and they aren't in administration. Those of us who were sceptical about how a previously unforeseen need for this amount could have suddenly sprung up seem to have been justified in our doubts.

I can understand how Jackson got this wrong. He could have been given wrong information, either deliberately or in good faith, or he could simply have misunderstood something he was told. What I don't understand is his total lack of willingness to investigate the details of what the money was needed for, given that salaries are paid near to the end of the month. Now that his article appears to be wrong, he's behaving as if it had never been written.

That's not how a top journalist should do his job. The same goes for Keevins who was spinning the same line on Radio Clyde on Friday, but had forgotten about that by this evening. They're a pair of incompetents.

It's obviously a case of sports hacks being out of their depth when trying to report on business matters.

[steakbake]

Chick Young will have the scoop after a day's seat sniffing in "the corridors of power" at Ibrox.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's obviously a case of sports hacks being out of their depth when trying to report on business matters.

Wouldn't trust Jackson to get the score of a game right, never mind read a set of accounts.

[Iain G]

I assumed the 6.5 million was to cover operaing costs to the end of the season?!

[ScottB]

It's obviously a case of sports hacks being out of their depth when trying to report on business matters.

Which shows how poor our media is, that they haven't sent a decent business minded journalist in to do a report.

They aren't interested in the facts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Which shows how poor our media is, that they haven't seen a decent business minded journalist in to do a report.

They aren't interested in the facts.

Neither it seems, is Phil McG.

Subtle, and not so subtle, promptings on his blog have been unsuccessful in establishing the exact nature of the fabled £6.5m.

[ScottB]

Neither it seems, is Phil McG.

Subtle, and not so subtle, promptings on his blog have been unsuccessful in establishing the exact nature of the fabled £6.5m.

His agenda is even more obvious than the Jackson's, Traynor's and Young's of the world haha

[monktonharp]

So Rangers needed £6.5m within 48 hours. 4 days later, they haven't received £6.5m and they aren't in administration. Those of us who were sceptical about how a previously unforeseen need for this amount could have suddenly sprung up seem to have been justified in our doubts.

I can understand how Jackson got this wrong. He could have been given wrong information, either deliberately or in good faith, or he could simply have misunderstood something he was told. What I don't understand is his total lack of willingness to investigate the details of what the money was needed for, given that salaries are paid near to the end of the month. Now that his article appears to be wrong, he's behaving as if it had never been written.

That's not how a top journalist should do his job. The same goes for Keevins who was spinning the same line on Radio Clyde on Friday, but had forgotten about that by this evening. They're a pair of incompetents.much can be said about any one of our so called journos, conveniently forgetting things said. the speeches and statements made from our former prime minister Brown for example about full home rule. suddenly he did not say half of that, despite it being said on TV, and in the full view of our nation, in front of all the press 2 days before the referendum.

[monktonharp]

It's obviously a case of sports hacks being out of their depth when trying to report on business matters. not just sports hacks:wink:

[monktonharp]

Which shows how poor our media is, that they haven't sent a decent business minded journalist in to do a report.

They aren't interested in the facts.:agree:

[AndyM_1875]

Neither it seems, is Phil McG.

Subtle, and not so subtle, promptings on his blog have been unsuccessful in establishing the exact nature of the fabled £6.5m.

As I've said repeatedly about him he is a bigoted agenda peddler and it's all about him and punting his appallingly written books. The Celtic Twitterati appear to be blind to this but we certainly should not be.

He has no interest in reporting 'the facts' (and he's gotten the major ones wrong) unless it gives him an axe to grind. Mind you neither was the Scottish MSM prior to the Rangers meltdown but at least they had the excuse of not doing so because they were scared of getting sued.

ScottB & yourself are right that the Rangers situation need a proper business journalist to cut through the nonsense and emotive agenda rubbish spouted by the myopic Old Firm muppets. Douglas Fraser at BBC Scotland has looked at the issue on and off but that he got so much abuse online from witless halfwits from both sides he appeared either to get bored or walk away from it.

[greenginger]

Well, just to annoy you, here's Phil's latest piece,


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/security-problem/

[Iain G]

Well, just to annoy you, here's Phil's latest piece,


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/security-problem/

It is so badly written it's almost unreadable, all short statements, misplaced hyperbole and hackneyed illiterate imagery. Would say it was written by a 12 year old if he didn't have a photo on his blog!

Wonder if he, Jackson or Keevins will discover the paragraph first?!

[CropleyWasGod]

It is so badly written it's almost unreadable, all short statements, misplaced hyperbole and hackneyed illiterate imagery. Would say it was written by a 12 year old if he didn't have a photo on his blog!

Wonder if he, Jackson or Keevins will discover the paragraph first?!

There's a few choice paragraphs in there.

This one sticks out :- "to be the largest unsecured creditor makes you king of the hill in an insolvency event".

Right. :rolleyes:

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30798934

Former Rangers owner Craig Whyte has attended another court hearing in London amid ongoing efforts by Ticketus to recover about £18m damages from him.

when exactly is this little crook going for a stint in one of lizzies prisons, we all know it's him underneath that face fungus

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80237000/jpg/_80237197_80236381.jpg


:grr:

[monktonharp]

There's a few choice paragraphs in there.

This one sticks out :- "to be the largest unsecured creditor makes you king of the hill in an insolvency event".

Right. :rolleyes: excuse my ignorance, but even the smallest secured creditor, would be above this "king of the hill" , correct Crops?

[CropleyWasGod]

excuse my ignorance, but even the smallest secured creditor, would be above this "king of the hill" , correct Crops?

Every insolvency is different, but in the "normal" type, yeah you're absolutely right.

There's no point in being the largest unsecured creditor if there's F all in the pot. (see Midlothian, Heart of....)

[Ozyhibby]

Every insolvency is different, but in the "normal" type, yeah you're absolutely right.

There's no point in being the largest unsecured creditor if there's F all in the pot. (see Midlothian, Heart of....)

Would it not depend on whether anything is secured on Ibrox? If there is no security against it, then the largest unsecured creditor would be in the best position to control it?

[CropleyWasGod]

Would it not depend on whether anything is secured on Ibrox? If there is no security against it, then the largest unsecured creditor would be in the best position to control it?

McGilliven made a sweeping statement about insolvencies which was exactly that, general and (for the most part) crap.

In RFC's case, Ashley has a security over the car park and Edmiston House. His debt is £3m.

We don't know who the largest unsecured creditor is. Neither does McGilliven.

[Billy Whizz]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4272548)

We don't know who the largest unsecured creditor is. Neither does McGilliven.[/QUOTE]

Why don't we know this. Is their something fishy about the secrecy of this?

[CropleyWasGod]

Why don't we know this. Is their something fishy about the secrecy of this?

There's no need for anyone outside of the Big Hoose to know, TBH.

We would only find that out in the event of an insolvency.

[Billy Whizz]

There's no need for anyone outside of the Big Hoose to know, TBH.

We would only find that out in the event of an insolvency.

Thanks, who are the contenders though😄

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks, who are the contenders though

Outside of the fabled £6.5m, I have no idea TBH.

There will be HMRC, perhaps, although they'll have kept a close eye on things. And the Council etc.

[portycabbage]

Would it not depend on whether anything is secured on Ibrox? If there is no security against it, then the largest unsecured creditor would be in the best position to control it?

From a sevco statement last year (which of course may be untrue!)-

"The board has stated that it has no intention of granting security over Ibrox to anybody. We have already shown in our actions - and not words - that our stadium is sacrosanct."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27298234

[CropleyWasGod]

From a sevco statement last year (which of course may be untrue!)-

"The board has stated that it has no intention of granting security over Ibrox to anybody. We have already shown in our actions - and not words - that our stadium is sacrosanct."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27298234

That actually chimes with one thing Phil McG said in his latest blog.... that the Board "can't" grant security over Ibrox.

However, does that mean they "won't" or that they actually can't, because it's charged to someone else on the fly?

Or am I getting like Paranoid Phil?

[greenginger]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/306444-number-of-companies-run-by-sir-david-murray-set-for-liquidation/


Looks like ( Sir ) David Murray has hit the buffers.

Discount him from coming to Sevco's rescue.

[portycabbage]

That actually chimes with one thing Phil McG said in his latest blog.... that the Board "can't" grant security over Ibrox.

However, does that mean they "won't" or that they actually can't, because it's charged to someone else on the fly?

Or am I getting like Paranoid Phil?

Actually, I think that was what reminded me of the statement last year. It could mean something dodgy I suppose, but it could just mean they've pinky-promised not to. Surely they wouldn't break a promise?:greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/306444-number-of-companies-run-by-sir-david-murray-set-for-liquidation/


Looks like ( Sir ) David Murray has hit the buffers.

Discount him from coming to Sevco's rescue.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/end-of-an-era-as-murray-closes-illustrious-charlotte-square-hq.25482419


This article from last October offers a few clues to Sir David Murray's recent business issues.
CWG would need to interpret the threads but I doubt Mr Murray is remotely finished in the business world.

Lots of the companies originally owned by the now closed MIH are still trading independently under the ownership of the Murray Family.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30805669


His business empire has run into conflict with its pensioners over a lack of funds to fulfil their expected pensions. It has been reported that there is a £22m shortfall in the pension fund, and pensioners will have to take reduced pay-outs as a result.


******* buzzard that he is

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30805669


His business empire has run into conflict with its pensioners over a lack of funds to fulfil their expected pensions. It has been reported that there is a £22m shortfall in the pension fund, and pensioners will have to take reduced pay-outs as a result.


******* buzzard that he is

Meanwhile a lot of assets from his companies were transferred to his family trust.
He's no better than Robert Maxwell.

[AndyM_1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30805669


His business empire has run into conflict with its pensioners over a lack of funds to fulfil their expected pensions. It has been reported that there is a £22m shortfall in the pension fund, and pensioners will have to take reduced pay-outs as a result.


******* buzzard that he is

Indeed and a discussion this morning with a Glaswegian business chum (who also happens to be a bluenose) of mine alludes to that.

"Murray's a ****. But one that knows how to play the game. He's about to do what can only be called a rubbish dump. He's scooped out all the good stuff from his business empire (MIH) and transferred it away into his family basically leaving MIH as a shell with all the debt to get wound up. He leaves nothing but a trail of debt behind him and he's screwed Lloyds/Bank of Scotland good & proper.

You'd be a fool to write him off but I'd never ever do business with him. He's one of the most unethical people I have ever come into contact with."

[greenginger]

Meanwhile a lot of assets from his companies were transferred to his family trust.
He's no better than Robert Maxwell.


Hope he can't swim any better either ! :greengrin

[ACLeith]

And this is the man that was "duped" by Whyte? Yeah, right!

[AndyM_1875]

And this is the man that was "duped" by Whyte? Yeah, right!

Duped? Yeah right indeed.
His hand was forced by Lloyds to dump Rangers. Mind you he appears to have had the last laugh on Lloyds having burned them for the best part of £300m +

[brog]

That actually chimes with one thing Phil McG said in his latest blog.... that the Board "can't" grant security over Ibrox.

However, does that mean they "won't" or that they actually can't, because it's charged to someone else on the fly?

Or am I getting like Paranoid Phil?

There were 3 consecutive statements in P McG's piece ( only 3 you say! ) which made no sense to me. The part which really puzzled me was the apparent wish by the largest unsecured creditor that anyone else giving a loan, ie becoming a creditor, should have security over their loan. Surely that would just push the unsecured creditors further down the pecking order? Finally, & again I may be completely wrong here but does being the largest unsecured creditor not really count for the square root of hee haw, other than possibly voting on a CVA or insolvency event! If the creditors, and (assuming all are unsecured/equal status ), = say £10m & the largest is £5m, in the event of a 20p in the £ payout then surely the largest would only get £1m, not the whole £2m which is being distributed?

[greenginger]

There is an article in Private Eye, City Column, all about Craig Whyte, Law Financial, Worthington Group, Liberty Capital and all the various shady names that have been cropping up over the Rangers saga.

One sentence caught my attention.

"Law Financial maintains it holds investments worth £ 10 million which would seem to be a legal claim to Rangers " Newco " assets . "

Can't post a copy, can't understand all the inter-connections, but its fun to read ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

There is an article in Private Eye, City Column, all about Craig Whyte, Law Financial, Worthington Group, Liberty Capital and all the various shady names that have been cropping up over the Rangers saga.

One sentence caught my attention.

"Law Financial maintains it holds investments worth £ 10 million which would seem to be a legal claim to Rangers " Newco " assets . "

Can't post a copy, can't understand all the inter-connections, but its fun to read ! :greengrin

Who are Law Financial? If I can get out of my Tax Return hell, I might do some digging.

[Billy Whizz]

Who are Law Financial? If I can get out of my Tax Return hell, I might do some digging.

Craigie Whyte is/was a director

[AndyM_1875]

Who are Law Financial? If I can get out of my Tax Return hell, I might do some digging.

This lot?

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/08440073

Interesting
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/221832-worthington-to-take-on-craig-whytes-legal-claim-over-rangers/

[jacomo]

Meanwhile a lot of assets from his companies were transferred to his family trust.
He's no better than Robert Maxwell.

Feathers his own nest, while the workers whose labour made him rich get shafted. What a charming individual.

[Liberal Hibby]

Craigie Whyte is/was a director

Was - resigned in August.

Sole director listed by company check is Douglas Ware

They say he "holds 14 appointments at 13 active companies, has resigned from 9 companies and held 22 appointments at 21 dissolved companies. Douglas began their first appointment at the age of 39. Their longest current appointment spans 23 years and 10 months at THE PERRYS MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED. The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Douglas holds a current appointment equals £90,053, with a combined total current assets value of £3,987,196 and total current liabilities of £1,231,935. Roles associated with Douglas Ware within the recorded businesses include: Director, Company Secretary

Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/director/901360317

22 appointments at 21 dissolved companies - that's some successful business record...

[Andy74]

Was - resigned in August.

Sole director listed by company check is Douglas Ware

They say he "holds 14 appointments at 13 active companies, has resigned from 9 companies and held 22 appointments at 21 dissolved companies. Douglas began their first appointment at the age of 39. Their longest current appointment spans 23 years and 10 months at THE PERRYS MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED. The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Douglas holds a current appointment equals £90,053, with a combined total current assets value of £3,987,196 and total current liabilities of £1,231,935. Roles associated with Douglas Ware within the recorded businesses include: Director, Company Secretary

Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/director/901360317

22 appointments at 21 dissolved companies - that's some successful business record...

Companies are dissolved for all sorts of reasons - including just not being needed any more.

[wills]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/306444-number-of-companies-run-by-sir-david-murray-set-for-liquidation/


Looks like ( Sir ) David Murray has hit the buffers.

Discount him from coming to Sevco's rescue.

Just read this piece from news stv, maybe someone with better knowledge than myself can answer the question regarding the big tax case and EBTs, why there has not been any mention of any attempts to recover the loan payments

HMRC’s argument revolved around the use of employee benefit trusts which were used by the companies, including the Rangers oldco, which they alleged were used as emoluments to employees. Murray successfully argued they were loans which remain recoverable.