Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[PaulSmith]

I read it that the points deduction would be the from 10 points to the greater of 15 points or 1/3 of their points total, which would put them at a 21 point reduction for next season assuming they picked up no further points this season.

Farically, they'd still be ahead of us by over 20 points. :rolleyes:

The SPL can GTF if this goes through. Rubbish.

I'll need to re-read but I thought it was new-co punishment as described and new penalty for administration as you mention.

[PaulSmith]

If this comes to pass then, 'Rangers' continue but with zero debt. Season ticket sales will give them a £25m start on everyone else and they lose a potential £1m-£2m in spl income for a few seasons and 10 points.

I wonder if the other clubs have completed their own cost studies to ascertain if they'd be better or worse off with newco Rangers in the SPL as from where I'm sitting all I can see is them losing ST money hand over fist.

[PatHead]

If this comes to pass then, 'Rangers' continue but with zero debt. Season ticket sales will give them a £25m start on everyone else and they lose a potential £1m-£2m in spl income for a few seasons and 10 points.

I wonder if the other clubs have completed their own cost studies to ascertain if they'd be better or worse off with newco Rangers in the SPL as from where I'm sitting all I can see is them losing ST money hand over fist.

Don't forget they could also play players they didn't actually pay for such as Lee Wallace!

[Seveno]

Don't forget they could also play players they didn't actually pay for such as Lee Wallace!

And sell players that they haven't yet paid for, like Jelavic.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

We have a culture in the boardrooms of the SPL where the presence of Rangers and Celtic is more valued and of more importance than that of their own fans. Its us that keep Hibs going that the club exists for... NOT to provide a platform for those two bigoted and corrupt sides to exist!

[WindyMiller]

If this comes to pass then, 'Rangers' continue but with zero debt. Season ticket sales will give them a £25m start on everyone else and they lose a potential £1m-£2m in spl income for a few seasons and 10 points.

I wonder if the other clubs have completed their own cost studies to ascertain if they'd be better or worse off with newco Rangers in the SPL as from where I'm sitting all I can see is them losing ST money hand over fist.



Surely their t.v. money would be more than that?

[Brando7]

Duff and Duffer always find a way off not taking this issue forward. Whilst racking up massive fees. They appear to be more dodgey than CW. The huns are being taken for a ride

My guess is that they are waiting on the BTC to be concluded so they can add it to their CVA n pay back pennies to the £ and that what the bidders be wanting also, they wont want to buy a club then be hit with a £75million bill when they could have waited n paid back pennies.

D&F comments quite intresting when they have said "Inevitably, bidders are now considering this information and will have to take a view as to whether it will affect their individual bids as they now stand" so i'm reading into that they would have preferred to liqudate the club n pay nothing but future change of league rules as make them think twice to thier bids

[matty_f]

I'll need to re-read but I thought it was new-co punishment as described and new penalty for administration as you mention.

I think you're right - the immediate penalty would be higher than 10 points, then they'd get 10 points for the next couple of seasons, which is bollocks IMHO.


Resolution 1 proposes an increase in the sporting sanction (points deduction) on any Club which suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event from 10 points to the greater of 15 points and 1/3 of the Club’s SPL points in the preceding season.

Resolution 2A proposes further sporting sanctions in the event that any Club undergoes an Insolvency Transfer Event (i.e. transfers its share in the SPL to a new company where this occurs because of the insolvency of the transferor) of 10 points in each of two consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

[greenginger]

There are some chairmen looking for stronger sanctions, hopefully our Rod is one of them, and they should be making the case to EUFA to have the case of a newly formed football club treated in the proper manner.

Voted into the SFL and starting in Division 3.

How can anyone considerate fair that Dunfermline or Hibs, who have played by the rules, lose their place in the SPL and the cheating Huns are kept in.

[SteveHFC]

If this happens and they start next season in the SPL that'll be me finished with fitba. I'll no be puting another penny in tae corruption riddled Scottish fitba organisations.

Spot on!

[StevieC]

I think you're right - the immediate penalty would be higher than 10 points, then they'd get 10 points for the next couple of seasons, which is bollocks IMHO.

Any "standard" points deduction is bollocks.

The bigger the club, the bigger the debt, the bigger the problems, the more people affected, etc. etc. .. the less of a punishment a points deduction will actually have.

Bigger points deductions will only make a difference the smaller the team, they need to look at each case individually and assess what punishment will fit the crime.

[Onion]

My guess is that they are waiting on the BTC to be concluded so they can add it to their CVA n pay back pennies to the £ and that what the bidders be wanting also, they wont want to buy a club then be hit with a £75million bill when they could have waited n paid back pennies.

D&F comments quite intresting when they have said "Inevitably, bidders are now considering this information and will have to take a view as to whether it will affect their individual bids as they now stand" so i'm reading into that they would have preferred to liqudate the club n pay nothing but future change of league rules as make them think twice to thier bids

Yip, all the bids would have probably assumed that the NewHun started again in the 3rd div - like most fair-minded people would think. Now the bidders can't believe their Efn luck that their NewHuns Fc will be straight into the SPL with 4 OF games a season :rolleyes:

[edinburghhibee]

I don't understand why there have not been more penaltys handed out to clubs like Gers and Yams, Gers are still playing players who they haven't paid for and Hearts are the same only they aren't paying the players. In my eyes Lee Wallace should be back at Hearts until payment is received in full. Hearts should only be able to field the players they are paying the wages too.

[BoltonHibee]

How can anyone considerate fair that Dunfermline or Hibs, who have played by the rules, lose their place in the SPL and the cheating Huns are kept in.

Spot on, would be a travesty if this was to happen

[HibeesLA]

I don't understand why there have not been more penaltys handed out to clubs like Gers and Yams, Gers are still playing players who they haven't paid for and Hearts are the same only they aren't paying the players. In my eyes Lee Wallace should be back at Hearts until payment is received in full. Hearts should only be able to field the players they are paying the wages too.

I think this point is a bit of a myth. This is akin to you using your house, but you haven't paid for it, or driving round in your car, but you haven't paid for it, just because you took out a mortgage or financed a loan.

With player sales, both parties agree on a payment plan for the player, therefore there is nothing illegal in that. If they miss the payment dates, then yes, there should be sanctions, but just because they agree a payment plan, does not make it illegal to me.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think this point is a bit of a myth. This is akin to you using your house, but you haven't paid for it, or driving round in your car, but you haven't paid for it, just because you took out a mortgage or financed a loan.

With player sales, both parties agree on a payment plan for the player, therefore there is nothing illegal in that. If they miss the payment dates, then yes, there should be sanctions, but just because they agree a payment plan, does not make it illegal to me.

:confused: They have agreed a payment plan, but have failed to pay the payments. That in my book is playing players they have not payed for.

If its like a mortgage, then he should be taken off the huns like a repossession, thats what happens to those who fail to pay their mortgages.

[Spike Mandela]

The framework of this proposal has clearly been designed to ease Rangers into their newco shell, name won't even have to change, they will still ease to second place and no doubt the 11-1 vote required for the financial penalty won't be acheived so even that will not happen.

Topping and the SPL giving out vibes they are getting tough whilst actually paving the way to ease Rangers back to health.

Scandalous. Honestly, who are they trying to kid?

[HibeesLA]

:confused: They have agreed a payment plan, but have failed to pay the payments. That in my book is playing players they have not payed for.

If its like a mortgage, then he should be taken off the huns like a repossession, thats what happens to those who fail to pay their mortgages.

Which is what I stated, that if they fail to pay the payments, then yes, sanctions need to be imposed.

However, people are citing Lee Wallace as an example, but I seem to recall that the money for Wallace is not due to Hearts until later this year. If i'm recalling that incorrectly, then I apologise. If not, then my original point stands.


Edit: Post number 486 from NY Hibbee states "Its actually £800,000. £500,000 this summer and another £300,000 next."

[blackpoolhibs]

Which is what I stated, that if they fail to pay the payments, then yes, sanctions need to be imposed.

However, people are citing Lee Wallace as an example, but I seem to recall that the money for Wallace is not due to Hearts until later this year. If i'm recalling that incorrectly, then I apologise. If not, then my original point stands.

I see where you are coming from, but they dont have any intention of paying Hearts, now or in the future. I have no idea if its due now or sometime later, but its clear they have used players they have not payed for, cheating in my book.

[thebakerboy]

The thing that i find most astonishing about all this is that it makes some of mad vlads rants come true , he wasn't as far off the mark as we all said. That fact is extremely worrying. As for the rest did you really expect rangers to be treated the same as the likes of livingston or gretna.

[ancient hibee]

I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

[ancient hibee]

The thing that i find most astonishing about all this is that it makes some of mad vlads rants come true , he wasn't as far off the mark as we all said. That fact is extremely worrying. As for the rest did you really expect rangers to be treated the same as the likes of livingston or gretna.
In what way have they been treated differently exactly?

[blackpoolhibs]

I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

I think most of us know transfers are paid over many months even years, as you say the never never. You must agree paying them on the never is wrong though, and just shouldn't be allowed to happen?

[Ozyhibby]

If rule 2a comes about then I'm afraid I won't be supporting Hibs anymore. There would be no point especially after all these years of prudence we have had to endure while watching hearts spending money they have not got and finishing above us year after year. I'll probably just encourage my two boys to support English teams and take them down to watch Spartans. Hope Rod knows what he is doing if he votes this through as I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. An unfair league is just about bearable but I will not watch a rigged league.

[blackpoolhibs]

If rule 2a comes about then I'm afraid I won't be supporting Hibs anymore. There would be no point especially after all these years of prudence we have had to endure while watching hearts spending money they have not got and finishing above us year after year. I'll probably just encourage my two boys to support English teams and take them down to watch Spartans. Hope Rod knows what he is doing if he votes this through as I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. An unfair league is just about bearable but I will not watch a rigged league.

I fear what you say is how a lot of non old firm fans feel? Someone said in another thread how, you wouldn't play poker knowing the dealer was cheating, well thats how it feels this is going?

[down the slope]

I wonder what planet some of you guys are on.Nearly all transfers are done on the never never.And if Hearts are late payers and the players put up with it what business is it of anyone else?

But do the clubs who are paid late want to put up with it ?, i think it is our business if we were to be beaten by goals from a player that the club could not afford .

[joe breezy]

The 10 non important clubs should resign from the SPL. They would all go into the same league under the SFL making it as strong a league as the SPL is now.
The top 10 in the first division can be promoted to fight it out with Rangers and Celtic.
The new 1st division should then refuse promotion to the SPL.

This would have the same impact on revenue as the Glasgow pair succeding in their wish to leave the SPL. TV coverage would be drawn to the 1st division instead of the two team SPL.

Sounds like a plan, would be great if they had the baws tae dae it

[The Falcon]

I think most of us know transfers are paid over many months even years, as you say the never never. You must agree paying them on the never is wrong though, and just shouldn't be allowed to happen?


Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

[blackpoolhibs]

Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

:agree:

[WindyMiller]

Which is what I stated, that if they fail to pay the payments, then yes, sanctions need to be imposed.

However, people are citing Lee Wallace as an example, but I seem to recall that the money for Wallace is not due to Hearts until later this year. If i'm recalling that incorrectly, then I apologise. If not, then my original point stands.


Edit: Post number 486 from NY Hibbee states "Its actually £800,000. £500,000 this summer and another £300,000 next."



Still owing £1m to Rapid having brought in £3m for Jelly from Everton

"Meanwhile, Rapid Vienna may appeal to Uefa if Rangers fail to pay the money due for Nikica Jelavic.
The Ibrox club signed the striker in 2010 and agreed to pay the £4m fee in instalments but Rapid are still owed just over £1m.
The Austrian club say they would not agree to a company voluntary arrangement that would guarantee only a fraction of the amount owed for the player, who has since joined Everton."

[HibeesLA]

Still owing £1m to Rapid having brought in £3m for Jelly from Everton

"Meanwhile, Rapid Vienna may appeal to Uefa if Rangers fail to pay the money due for Nikica Jelavic.
The Ibrox club signed the striker in 2010 and agreed to pay the £4m fee in instalments but Rapid are still owed just over £1m.
The Austrian club say they would not agree to a company voluntary arrangement that would guarantee only a fraction of the amount owed for the player, who has since joined Everton."

I'm not disagreeing with the need for sanctions IF they fail to meet their obligations under the contract. What I am saying is that we don't know the terms of the agreement. No where that I've seen does it say what the installment plan was, nor does it say they're past due on the moneys. I agree with Rapids position of going to UEFA as I'd be betting when my payment date comes around (again, assuming it's still in the future), Rangers aren't going to pay up. I would imagine Hearts are probably going to follow suit when the Wallace money doesn't roll in.

I would think that the non-payment of wages clause that has been drafted could be extended to include non-payment of player fees, or anything related to the product on the park. Unfortunately, any business can stop paying invoices to other services, but I think the SPL/SFA need to put their foot down and send a message that they control the playing aspect, and not paying for players on your books is not going to be condoned.

[thebakerboy]

In what way have they been treated differently exactly?
Well so far they actually have not been treated differently but with these new rules they would be.

[thebakerboy]

Which brings us back to the mortgage analogy. If you cant afford the payments you dont get to keep the hoose.

If thats the case lets sign Messi amd Ronaldo for £200m, offer them £1m a week and never ever pay them. Romp the league, keep the players and sell them on for a vast profit when we exit admin and take a ten point hit for our troubles. Piece of piss.

Lets try it and see what the Yams say.:top marks:aok:

[Part/Time Supporter]

I'm not disagreeing with the need for sanctions IF they fail to meet their obligations under the contract. What I am saying is that we don't know the terms of the agreement. No where that I've seen does it say what the installment plan was, nor does it say they're past due on the moneys. I agree with Rapids position of going to UEFA as I'd be betting when my payment date comes around (again, assuming it's still in the future), Rangers aren't going to pay up. I would imagine Hearts are probably going to follow suit when the Wallace money doesn't roll in.

I would think that the non-payment of wages clause that has been drafted could be extended to include non-payment of player fees, or anything related to the product on the park. Unfortunately, any business can stop paying invoices to other services, but I think the SPL/SFA need to put their foot down and send a message that they control the playing aspect, and not paying for players on your books is not going to be condoned.

Going into administration means the money becomes due immediately, even if you weren't due to be paid for months or years in the future under the original contract. eg the club deck debentures are now due even though they were 25 year loans taken out in 1991.

[H18sry]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04/11/spl-reduce-scottish-football-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

[IWasThere2016]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04/11/spl-reduce-scottish-football-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

Top post R - I'll let you win at Words With Friends for that one! :wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

There are some chairmen looking for stronger sanctions, hopefully our Rod is one of them, and they should be making the case to EUFA to have the case of a newly formed football club treated in the proper manner.
Voted into the SFL and starting in Division 3.

How can anyone considerate fair that Dunfermline or Hibs, who have played by the rules, lose their place in the SPL and the cheating Huns are kept in.

I hope you're right. I think the vast majority of fans outwith Greyskull see this as genuinely fair punishment. Its accepted they wont disapper forever, but for them to be back in the SPL next year (assuming they're still not in administration) would be an obscenity. Hibs position on this and the ultimate outcome will define my future football watching behaviour.

There are so many moral, legal and sporting imperatives that would be run roughshod over if they get back in it beggars belief.

[Bishop Hibee]

This apology for sanctions makes me sick. I love Hibs but what is the point going to see them when we'd basically be handing the title to Rantic on a plate when we have the chance to level the playing field.

I've never written a letter to Hibs before but I'll be firing one off letting them know I'll not be renewing my ST if this goes ahead.

[matty_f]

This apology for sanctions makes me sick. I love Hibs but what is the point going to see them when we'd basically be handing the title to Rantic on a plate when we have the chance to level the playing field.

I've never written a letter to Hibs before but I'll be firing one off letting them know I'll not be renewing my ST if this goes ahead.

:agree:

The SPL will be left with as much integrity as the wrestling.

It was bad enough suspecting that everything was rigged in favour of the OF, having it confirmed and being expected to assume the position and take what's coming is out of order.

[Saorsa]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04/11/spl-reduce-scottish-football-to-farce/


We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.:top marks

[jgl07]

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

Rangers are adept at waiving the rules. As their song goes:

"Rule Brittania
Brittania waives the rules..."

[Jack]

I can see this whole thing panning out in two steps for the 'establishment'. And I'm all for doing the why bother when its fixed boycott.

1. We get shafted by a newco rangers and are shafted.

2. The result is that I, and thousands across the country like me don't go to games. The Scottish game withers on the vine and the OF bugger off to England. We're shafted having been reduced to zilch because there's no point.

There is the third bit where fairness and honesty make a comeback, but sadly I can't see that.

This is such a huge moment in time for Scottish football - and its us, the other 36??? senior clubs, or rangers.

[CentreLine]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04/11/spl-reduce-scottish-football-to-farce/


What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.

It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.

The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.

And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.

The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.

Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.

As Rangers Tax Case has put it:

” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”

This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.

We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.

There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.

A whole lot of people have been saying this since this whole mess began. Scottish football has to wake up to this because the game may very well die here on the back of what the people who administer the game do. I am absolutely resolute in my position, if Rangers emerge as a newco and are not ejected from the SPL then I will always take a passing interest in what Hibs and the National Team are doing but I am finished with Scottish football as a paying supporter.

[7 Hills]

A whole lot of people have been saying this since this whole mess began. Scottish football has to wake up to this because the game may very well die here on the back of what the people who administer the game do. I am absolutely resolute in my position, if Rangers emerge as a newco and are not ejected from the SPL then I will always take a passing interest in what Hibs and the National Team are doing but I am finished with Scottish football as a paying supporter.

This is my position too, and I have just renewed my season ticket for the 20th year in a row. If Rangers are allowed to start up as a newco with derisory sanctions, then I am FINISHED with Scottish Football and I will put no money whatsoever into any company that sponsors the SPL or any SPL club.

[Moulin Yarns]

The SPL 10 delay the meeting/vote due today to the 30th April. Not looking good IMHO

[Onion]

I hope you're right. I think the vast majority of fans outwith Greyskull see this as genuinely fair punishment. Its accepted they wont disapper forever, but for them to be back in the SPL next year (assuming they're still not in administration) would be an obscenity. Hibs position on this and the ultimate outcome will define my future football watching behaviour.

There are so many moral, legal and sporting imperatives that would be run roughshod over if they get back in it beggars belief.

What's worrying is that this resolution should not even have seen the light of the day. Yes, we all know it would have been discussed. Yes, the OF , SKY TV, media and everyone else who is driven by money would have been lobbying for this. But to actually get to the stage of drafting this as a formal PROPOSAL shows how out of touch they are with reality, sporting integrity and football fans generally. It is abhorrent, an obscenity. Even if these people vote the resolution down, their credibility in drafting it in the first place - shows that they are not fit to run our game.

[sambajustice]

Detail on the SPL site:

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=11256



I think Resolution 5 will be the key. It almost certainly is bending the existing article regarding the transfer of SPL share requiring an 11-1 vote. I bet there is absolutely zero press coverage or explanation of what Resolution 5 involves. This is the behind closed doors stitch up we've all been expecting.

Resolution 5 itself requires an 11-1 vote.

Hibs and the rest: 19 days to avoid the mother of all corrupt back door deals.:rolleyes:


Umm, can someone spell this out for me in black and white please?

i get the picture that the huns are basically being told that they can wind up and start again in the SPL but how has that come about.

i suppose its clarification on the wording of the document im looking for really, 2A and 5 being the main ones...

[Captain Trips]

I 100% believe if this was any other non OF club they would be looking at application to Div 3, just a look around the last few pages of this thread shows how angry people are with the possible situations ahead.

I think if Rangers are allowed back in it will be the beginning of the end, I will not be paying money to watch SPL games any more, take into account lots of ST holders looking at this situation very closly and sales thus far there could be troubling times ahead if Rangers are allowed in regardless of pts deductions.

[Jim44]

The SPL 10 delay the meeting/vote due today to the 30th April. Not looking good IMHO

Cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck ................................... a dearth of testicles among the so-called rebels. :rolleyes:

[green glory]

I think the 10 are just waiting for the inevitable to happen, ie liquidation. When that happens it's one less OF vote and probably the right time to strike. I think it's more about timing rather than bottling it.

[hibs0666]

Umm, can someone spell this out for me in black and white please?

i get the picture that the huns are basically being told that they can wind up and start again in the SPL but how has that come about.

i suppose its clarification on the wording of the document im looking for really, 2A and 5 being the main ones...

Resolution 5 proposes updates and extensions to the definition of Insolvency Event in the SPL Articles and clarifies the process in the event that a Member which is the subject of an Insolvency Event is required to transfer its share in the Company.

The first part of this resolution amends the wording of what constitutes an Insolvency Event under SPL rules.

The second part is designed to bring clarity to what is required for a share transfer to take place.

Resolution Five requires the approval of 11 of the 12 member clubs.

[PatHead]

Could be that the meeting has been cancelled to allow club boards to meet and discuss the proposals before coming back with their own comments. Looks to me like SPL board have come up with these proposals in an attempt to split the 10.

By the way should have seen this coming- Scotsman 14/02/2012

A new “phoenix” Rangers would be created, perhaps going under the name “Glasgow Rangers” as this is not incorporated in their official name, and the headaches would begin for the rest of Scottish football.It is a decision of the six-strong SPL board “on which basis the transfer of a league share” is allowed. By rights, a new Rangers should apply for SFA and SFL membership and join the Third Division. Celtic, from the noises made by chief executive Peter Lawwell would push for an outcome that would retain the SPL’s sporting integrity. However, with television deals and sponsorship contracts sold on the basis of a playing top-flight rivalry between the country’s big two, it is doubtful if the board, as a whole, would risk destabilising the finances of the entire SPL.
It is expected that a three-year points penalty, in the region of 15 points per season, would be pushed for, both in terms of a fairness rebalancing and a deterrent of sorts to others. The three-year period would also be in line with the probability a new Rangers would not be allowed to play European football for three years.
Rangers might not just be in the process of running themselves down – they may be taking Scotland’s top flight, and the country’s footballing reputation, with them.

Really makes you wonder what Lawwell's definition of integrity is

[TrinityHibs]

I'm just about to re-new my season tickets to get the Early Bird benefits but I was just wondering if Rod paps der Hun out of the SPL is he doing it so he will not need to give me free tickets? If thats the case I'd be happy to pass on Celtc tickets if he could get rid of them as well.

[Seveno]

Whilst I understand and respect the views of those who say that they will stop attending SPL matches and/ or not renew their ST if these proposals go ahead, I cannot agree.

The effect would be to punish our club and cause a serious financial predicament, though no fault of the club. We need to stick together at this time and do everything we can to demand change but, please, let's not kill off the club that we love in doing so.

GGTTH

[HibbyRod]

Just for clarification ..... if the resolutions (or the key controversial one(s) ) have to be passed by an 11 - 1 vote, does it not just take 2 of the Clubs to vote against it to kybosh the proposed resolution(s)? :confused:

[Mon Dieu4]

Whilst I understand and respect the views of those who say that they will stop attending SPL matches and/ or not renew their ST if these proposals go ahead, I cannot agree.

The effect would be to punish our club and cause a serious financial predicament, though no fault of the club. We need to stick together at this time and do everything we can to demand change but, please, let's not kill off the club that we love in doing so.

GGTTH

If hibs vote this through then they will deserve some punishment imo, i will prove that they really don't listen to our fans, we ate at the point where we can change the whole of Scottish football for the better

Although i wouldn't finish with hibs for good i certainly wouldn't renew my season ticket and would just pick and choose what games i go to

Football fans are disillusioned with the game as it is, this would be the final straw for many

[jgl07]

Which is what I stated, that if they fail to pay the payments, then yes, sanctions need to be imposed.

However, people are citing Lee Wallace as an example, but I seem to recall that the money for Wallace is not due to Hearts until later this year. If i'm recalling that incorrectly, then I apologise. If not, then my original point stands.

Edit: Post number 486 from NY Hibbee states "Its actually £800,000. £500,000 this summer and another £300,000 next."

Rangers have gone into administration. That means that all debts are due now not at the end of the season or a year hence.

So Rangers are in default to Hearts, Rapid, Man City, Chelsea, etc as detailed in the Duff and Phelps document.

[WarringtonHibee]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?233073-SPL-Fans-Survey&p=3176277#post3176277

We've created a site called SPL Fan Surveys to get our opinions and voices known, we won't be ignored, we'll work to get support from everyone no matter their team. :aok:

Please check the thread and get it out there!

[Ozyhibby]

Whilst I understand and respect the views of those who say that they will stop attending SPL matches and/ or not renew their ST if these proposals go ahead, I cannot agree.

The effect would be to punish our club and cause a serious financial predicament, though no fault of the club. We need to stick together at this time and do everything we can to demand change but, please, let's not kill off the club that we love in doing so.

GGTTH

If they allow this to happen then it is the custodians of the club who are killing it not the supporters who are unwilling to back a rigged league.
It only takes two clubs to stop this proposal dead in it's tracks.
Hibs need to be one of them or I will withdraw my support. I won't be the only one.

[joe breezy]

Being Hibs is part of my identity, would be strange not supporting Hibs anymore

[Seveno]

If they allow this to happen then it is the custodians of the club who are killing it not the supporters who are unwilling to back a rigged league.
It only takes two clubs to stop this proposal dead in it's tracks.
Hibs need to be one of them or I will withdraw my support. I won't be the only one.

I trust that you have written to Hibs then to express your view ?

[sambajustice]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?233073-SPL-Fans-Survey&p=3176277#post3176277

We've created a site called SPL Fan Surveys to get our opinions and voices known, we won't be ignored, we'll work to get support from everyone no matter their team. :aok:

Please check the thread and get it out there!

Filled out and link posted on facebook! :greengrin

[Onion]

Whilst I understand and respect the views of those who say that they will stop attending SPL matches and/ or not renew their ST if these proposals go ahead, I cannot agree.

The effect would be to punish our club and cause a serious financial predicament, though no fault of the club. We need to stick together at this time and do everything we can to demand change but, please, let's not kill off the club that we love in doing so.

GGTTH

I've supported Hibs for years and fully expected to die a Hibs fan, but when common sense, sporting integrity and fair-play are no longer relevant - and the rules can so clearly be "bought" by the OF & Sky TV - then time to draw a line. Why would ANYONE want to be associated with a corrupt sport ? Its one thing to suspect it, quite another for it to be laid out bare for all to see.

It appears that Vlad was right after all.

[ehf]

They haven't even drafted these resolutions properly:

Resolution 2A proposes further sporting sanctions in the event that any Club undergoes an Insolvency Transfer Event (i.e. transfers its share in the SPL to a new company where this occurs because of the insolvency of the transferor) of 10 points in each of two consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

Resolution 2B proposes revisions to the fee payment arrangements i.e. SPL fees to any Club which has undergone an Insolvency Transfer Event will be reduced by 75% in each of three consecutive seasons from the Insolvency Transfer Event.

These sanctions are placed on the Club which undegoes the Insolvency Transfer Event (ie the Huns) and not the new company to which its SPL share is transferred (ie Hun NewCo), so completely useless...

[Onion]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?233073-SPL-Fans-Survey&p=3176277#post3176277

We've created a site called SPL Fan Surveys to get our opinions and voices known, we won't be ignored, we'll work to get support from everyone no matter their team. :aok:

Please check the thread and get it out there!

You need to combine all these surveys, Facebook pages into one focused campaign (with a single voice) for it to succeed.

[Isaac_Refvik]

Whilst I understand and respect the views of those who say that they will stop attending SPL matches and/ or not renew their ST if these proposals go ahead, I cannot agree.

The effect would be to punish our club and cause a serious financial predicament, though no fault of the club. We need to stick together at this time and do everything we can to demand change but, please, let's not kill off the club that we love in doing so.

GGTTH

Ok, how's this for an idea. Supporters of the 'Rebel 10' buy their season tickets as normal but we boycott the Rangers home games. The club still gets the season ticket revenue but the empty home stands show the depth of feeling felt towards Rangers, and the SPL for allowing them to go unpunished. If every club did this it would they would at least send out a message. If Rod and other Chairman still aren't happy they could sell more of the stadium to the unwashed.

[WarringtonHibee]

You need to combine all these surveys, Facebook pages into one focused campaign (with a single voice) for it to succeed.

That's the idea of this, it's one domain and one twitter account, one central place. Going forward all sorts of questions can be asked in the future, regarding splits, restructure, everything. The idea is to make our voices heard. It needs posting anywhere and everywhere, a good response already.

[Onion]

Ok, how's this for an idea. Supporters of the 'Rebel 10' buy their season tickets as normal but we boycott the Rangers home games. The club still gets the season ticket revenue but the empty home stands show the depth of feeling felt towards Rangers, and the SPL for allowing them to go unpunished. If every club did this it would they would at least send out a message. If Rod and other Chairman still aren't happy they could sell more of the stadium to the unwashed.

IMHO that would last maybe one game and then back to normal within a few weeks - a token protest that doesn't come close to addressing the issue. IMHO we need to stick to our main demand = "No to 2A".

[Onion]

That's the idea of this, it's one domain and one twitter account, one central place. Going forward all sorts of questions can be asked in the future, regarding splits, restructure, everything. The idea is to make our voices heard. It needs posting anywhere and everywhere, a good response already.

That's great but other fans/groups will emerge with similar ideas, websites etc. You need to combine efforts across all the clubs to have max effect.

[Ozyhibby]

Ok, how's this for an idea. Supporters of the 'Rebel 10' buy their season tickets as normal but we boycott the Rangers home games. The club still gets the season ticket revenue but the empty home stands show the depth of feeling felt towards Rangers, and the SPL for allowing them to go unpunished. If every club did this it would they would at least send out a message. If Rod and other Chairman still aren't happy they could sell more of the stadium to the unwashed.

Giant waste of time. Only the withdrawal of cash will make the board take notice of the fans. We have to make it clear we will not be made to look like idiots because that's exactly what we will be if rangers are allowed back on the league. How will you fell in two seasons time walking into the pub after rangers clinch the SPL at easter road? All the Huns smirking at you?

[Caversham Green]

If they allow this to happen then it is the custodians of the club who are killing it not the supporters who are unwilling to back a rigged league.
It only takes two clubs to stop this proposal dead in it's tracks.
Hibs need to be one of them or I will withdraw my support. I won't be the only one.

No it doesn't. All but two of the resolutions can be passed by an 8-4 majority so it needs five clubs to oppose them. The two 11-1 resolutions are the reduction of SPL money and the redefinition of an insolvency event, which looks to me like a small-print adjustment.

In truth the resolutions need to be considered individually because some are reasonable measures while others are clearly designed purely to save the huns.

[Andy74]

No it doesn't. All but two of the resolutions can be passed by an 8-4 majority so it needs five clubs to oppose them. The two 11-1 resolutions are the reduction of SPL money and the redefinition of an insolvency event, which looks to me like a small-print adjustment.

In truth the resolutions need to be considered individually because some are reasonable measures while others are clearly designed purely to save the huns.

I've seen this on the other thread too. At the moment the huns can be waved back in without sanction with the same vote. What measure do you think are designed to save them?

I hate them as much as the next man by the way but I don't see much in this in terms of making it easier for them. If anyhting there are now clear sanctions that would be applied in the event that the SPL did vote them back in. Sanctions that don't exist right now, but the voting back in does.

[grunt]

Crap blog ("mutually exclusive"? Why?) but some interesting comments below.
I thought comment number 1 was very clear.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jimspence/2012/04/spl_fair_play_proposals_provok.html

[grunt]

More from the man at Channel 4

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-morality-repaying-owe/1114

[WarringtonHibee]

That's great but other fans/groups will emerge with similar ideas, websites etc. You need to combine efforts across all the clubs to have max effect.

Believe me, this has spread quickly between a fair few clubs, a lot of Hearts and Celtic and a fair few Aberdeen fans are getting in on it. Amongst other teams. It's only a few hours old and has already received over 270 responses and is growing quicker and quicker...

...I'm clearly not going to get any work done today... :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

I've seen this on the other thread too. At the moment the huns can be waved back in without sanction with the same vote. What measure do you think are designed to save them?

I hate them as much as the next man by the way but I don't see much in this in terms of making it easier for them. If anyhting there are now clear sanctions that would be applied in the event that the SPL did vote them back in. Sanctions that don't exist right now, but the voting back in does.

The resolutions introduce an apparently new concept - an 'Insolvency Transfer Event' - without defining it. Resolution 2A, which requires an 8-4 majority, acknowledges this concept, so by accepting the resolution the clubs will implicitly be accepting the concept. Resolution 2A appears ahead of resolution 5 on the agenda, so the concept is accepted and resolution 5 simply defines or refines it. The idea of an 'Insolvecy Transfer Event' has arisen purely to ease the introduction of Newhun into the SPL.

[Andy74]

The resolutions introduce an apparently new concept - an 'Insolvency Transfer Event' - without defining it. Resolution 2A, which requires an 8-4 majority, acknowledges this concept, so by accepting the resolution the clubs will implicitly be accepting the concept. Resolution 2A appears ahead of resolution 5 on the agenda, so the concept is accepted and resolution 5 simply defines or refines it. The idea of an 'Insolvecy Transfer Event' has arisen purely to ease the introduction of Newhun into the SPL.

It acknowledges the concept in order that a sanction can be applied by the looks of it, otherwise ta newco can use the existing method of simply transferring the share and having it approved. If the insolvency event is not calrified and accepted then, as it stands now, they could be back in without sanction.

I don't see how by acknowledging the concept it makes it any easier to get through the vote you would need to transfer the share. As it stands the transfer could take place anyway, and we'd all be only too aware that it happened due to insolvency.

The only thing I can think of to suggest this makes it easier for them is that the clubs are thinking about the sanctions and making sure they are there, therefore it must be on their minds to let them back in. To be honest I think that is the case anyway, without these changes, so at least this and other financial issues would now have a clear avenue to action sanctions.

As I said above I don't want them back in but I think the reaction to this is a bit wide of the mark. There's plenty here that has big implications for Hearts in particular.

[Caversham Green]

It acknowledges the concept in order that a sanction can be applied by the looks of it, otherwise ta newco can use the existing method of simply transferring the share and having it approved. If the insolvency event is not calrified and accepted then, as it stands now, they could be back in without sanction.

I don't see how by acknowledging the concept it makes it any easier to get through the vote you would need to transfer the share. As it stands the transfer could take place anyway, and we'd all be only too aware that it happened due to insolvency.

The only thing I can think of to suggest this makes it easier for them is that the clubs are thinking about the sanctions and making sure they are there, therefore it must be on their minds to let them back in. To be honest I think that is the case anyway, without these changes, so at least this and other financial issues would now have a clear avenue to action sanctions.

As I said above I don't want them back in but I think the reaction to this is a bit wide of the mark. There's plenty here that has big implications for Hearts in particular.

The problem is that it doesn't specify what an insolvency transfer event is but by passing the resolution the clubs will be accepting that such a thing exists and the SPL can make it whatever they want it to be. Resolution 2A could be passed (8-4) while resolution 5 could fail (11-1) thus we have acknowledgement of an insolvency transfer event which would allow RFC to carry one out. Furthermore the resolution reducing the SPL fees could also fail - it only needs one other club to oppose it - so we have Newhun in the SPL receiving 100% of the fees for second place.

I agree about the implications for Hearts which is why I'm stressing that each proposal needs to be considered on its own merits.

[jgl07]

All is not lost for Rangers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17678447

[ancient hibee]

If a NEWCO was formed it does not bear the debts of the oldco-after all that's the whole point.Therefore the idea that somehow a NEWCO would take on the sanctions earned by the oldco is unsustainable and would obviously lead to legal challenge which it will win.There is absolutely no way that a court will allow a NEWCO to be financially punished for something it has not done-apart from anything else there is the human rights position.Of course this could be part of the SPL plan to pretend that they are punishing Rangers when they will be doing nothing of the kind.

[greenginger]

If a NEWCO was formed it does not bear the debts of the oldco-after all that's the whole point.Therefore the idea that somehow a NEWCO would take on the sanctions earned by the oldco is unsustainable and would obviously lead to legal challenge which it will win.There is absolutely no way that a court will allow a NEWCO to be financially punished for something it has not done-apart from anything else there is the human rights position.Of course this could be part of the SPL plan to pretend that they are punishing Rangers when they will be doing nothing of the kind.


It could be part of the conditions governing the transfer of the SPL share from Old-Hun to New-CO Hun. They must also accept the sanctions that go with the share transfer.

On second thoughts its all to complicated, just relegate the bassa's down to the Sunday Church's 7 a-side league. :greengrin

[Andy74]

If a NEWCO was formed it does not bear the debts of the oldco-after all that's the whole point.Therefore the idea that somehow a NEWCO would take on the sanctions earned by the oldco is unsustainable and would obviously lead to legal challenge which it will win.There is absolutely no way that a court will allow a NEWCO to be financially punished for something it has not done-apart from anything else there is the human rights position.Of course this could be part of the SPL plan to pretend that they are punishing Rangers when they will be doing nothing of the kind.

In which case the other teams wouldn't vote them back in. There's nothing automatic about it.

I'm actually surprised that most people as seeing this as a negative, unless of course most had talked themsleves into the fact that Rangers would not be readmitted in any way.

The rest can still say no to voting them back if they like, even if they vote this stuff in for future.

[Caversham Green]

In which case the other teams wouldn't vote them back in. There's nothing automatic about it.

I'm actually surprised that most people as seeing this as a negative, unless of course most had talked themsleves into the fact that Rangers would not be readmitted in any way.

The rest can still say no to voting them back if they like, even if they vote this stuff in for future.

It's all about trust Andy. The points you've been making are all valid, but this comes after a lengthy campaign of misinformation involving both the chairman and chief executive of the SPL as well as the press and Rangers FC.

We've had the CE claiming that the vote to reinstate RFC was down to the six-man board, one of whom has made it clear that finance overrules integrity in his view.

We've had the chairman trying to persuade the vast majority of clubs not to pursue the changes they proposed with the implication that their actions were damaging the commercial prospects of the league. It seems very convenient for him that these proposals are issued just as the 'rebels' were about to meet.

We've had Duff & Phelps and various others claiming that a CVA was a likely outcome when any sober analysis would view it as a remote possibility.

Duff & Phelps also claimed to be about to announce the preferred bidders when these proposals were issued. Is it convenient or inconvenient for them to claim that the goalposts have now moved? You'l have to make your own mind up but to me the timing stinks.

As you've been saying the mechanism is already in place for the removal of a liquidated Rangers from the SPL - indeed it's what would happen unless 11 clubs voted otherwise - that makes these proposals superfluous for the current circumstances unless they are specifically intended to save RFC's SPL status.

In short the SPL no longer has any credibility for the majority of non-OF supporters and that is why these proposals are viewed with suspicion.

[Seveno]

I've supported Hibs for years and fully expected to die a Hibs fan, but when common sense, sporting integrity and fair-play are no longer relevant - and the rules can so clearly be "bought" by the OF & Sky TV - then time to draw a line. Why would ANYONE want to be associated with a corrupt sport ? Its one thing to suspect it, quite another for it to be laid out bare for all to see.

It appears that Vlad was right after all.

Have you written to the Board to express your view. We need to stop this before it happens, not go off in the sulk afterwards.

For what it is worth, I think that if there is one club that will vote against then it is Hibs. Let's give RP some ammunition though.

[blindsummit]

Apologies for posting this if it's already been done, but spotted this link on rangerstaxcase.com and it brilliantly sums up the situation IMHO.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1142657-scottish-premier-league-is-doping-acceptable-in-scottish-soccer

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What Churchill meant to say (not the dog kids...)
Neva in the field of football conflict
Has so much been written by so many regarding so few.

[andrew70]

Anyone watching this Mark Dingwall on Sky just now...a complete idiot of the highest order. Totally embarrassing and yet again the Huns are so ignorant to the cheating that they've overseen. Hope they rot in hell!

[greenginger]

I spoke to a local Jurno last week ( Stuart Bathgate ) about the interpretation of the SPL rules in relation to a New-Co being allowed back into the SPL by approval of the SPL Board. He was a bit unsure himself and said he would speak to Doncaster and call me back .
He called back the next day with Doncaster's interpretation of the SPL Rules and the reasoning why the Full SPL do not get a say in the New Rangers staying in the SPL.

The idea is Rangers 1872 can transfer their SPL share to the New Rangers even 5 minutes before actually being liquidised and that transfer can be approved by the SPL Board alone under Article 11.

This is obviously subverting the actual meaning of the Rules and I think the new proposals are meant to fall somewhere between Clause 11 with the Board's majority approving Ranger's SPL place and Clause 14 which required 10 Spl members to re-admit der Hun.

[Jim44]

Apologies for posting this if it's already been done, but spotted this link on rangerstaxcase.com and it brilliantly sums up the situation IMHO.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1142657-scottish-premier-league-is-doping-acceptable-in-scottish-soccer

A great mug's guide to the Rangers' fiasco.

[thebakerboy]

The other thing I find strange RANGERS are against this as well (I reckon they thought they could just walk back in with no punishment) so it will only take one other SPL Club to vote against it (Celtic?) for it to be dumped. Got to think that the chairman at St. Johnstone and the guy at Dundee Utd. would not be up for this so maybe there is nothing to worry about. Wait a minute I also forgot but Mad Vlad and his rants , he will think this has proved him correct so maybe they might vote against it as well.

[Jim44]

The other thing I find strange RANGERS are against this as well (I reckon they thought they could just walk back in with no punishment) so it will only take one other SPL Club to vote against it (Celtic?) for it to be dumped. Got to think that the chairman at St. Johnstone and the guy at Dundee Utd. would not be up for this so maybe there is nothing to worry about. Wait a minute I also forgot but Mad Vlad and his rants , he will think this has proved him correct so maybe they might vote against it as well.


.............................. God knows how Vlad would react to the proposals. For example, he might take personal umbrage at the bit about non-payment of players.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Have you written to the Board to express your view. We need to stop this before it happens, not go off in the sulk afterwards.

For what it is worth, I think that if there is one club that will vote against then it is Hibs. Let's give RP some ammunition though.

Judging by their response to my email, they're already signed up to this cheat's charter.

[greenlex]

What Churchill meant to say (not the dog kids...)
Neva in the field of football conflict
Has so much been written by so many regarding so few.

:agree: Oh Yes :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

Judging by their response to my email, they're already signed up to this cheat's charter.

You willing to share?

[Part/Time Supporter]

You willing to share?

I'd rather not quote directly, but the gist of it was basically that we should ignore the Rangers situation and back Hibs regardless. I hadn't even suggested that anyone should stop giving money to Hibs.

My problem really is that any endorsement of the newco concept is in complete contradiction of the values that Hibs have been adhering to for the last 10 years or so. All this prudence talk and using some of the transfer (and car park) income to pay down the debt level will have been a complete waste of time. Hibs should have spent >100% of their income on player wages, spent the transfer and car park income on transfer fees and achieved greater success on the pitch. Then whenever the **** hit the fan they could have formed a newco, and let HMRC and whoever else sing for the debts ran up by the old company.

[Hibs Class]

I'd rather not quote directly, but the gist of it was basically that we should ignore the Rangers situation and back Hibs regardless. I hadn't even suggested that anyone should stop giving money to Hibs.

My problem really is that any endorsement of the newco concept is in complete contradiction of the values that Hibs have been adhering to for the last 10 years or so. All this prudence talk and using some of the transfer (and car park) income to pay down the debt level will have been a complete waste of time. Hibs should have spent >100% of their income on player wages, spent the transfer and car park income on transfer fees and achieved greater success on the pitch. Then whenever the **** hit the fan they could have formed a newco, and let HMRC and whoever else sing for the debts ran up by the old company.


I received something very similar - not attending matches and not renewing STs hurts only Hibs, but doesn't hurt Rangers, their supporters or any other club. Also tried to reassure that all SPL clubs want to do the right thing for the whole of Scottish football.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

There are so many moral, legal and sporting imperatives that would be run roughshod over if they get back in it beggars belief.

This is why so many people would be willing to turn their backs on Scottish football methinks.

[PatHead]

The other thing I find strange RANGERS are against this as well (I reckon they thought they could just walk back in with no punishment) so it will only take one other SPL Club to vote against it (Celtic?) for it to be dumped. Got to think that the chairman at St. Johnstone and the guy at Dundee Utd. would not be up for this so maybe there is nothing to worry about. Wait a minute I also forgot but Mad Vlad and his rants , he will think this has proved him correct so maybe they might vote against it as well.

The new chairman at ST J is in favour of the new proposals judging by St J fan's net site, so are their fans:rolleyes:

[MrSmith]

Loved this from the Bleacher report:

"Rangers FC is in serious danger of being liquidated because they have lived beyond their means for far too long, in the process distorting the market in Scotland. It has abused the tax system to give itself an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of the clubs in the SPL. It has bought players from other clubs it could not afford to pay for and had no intention of ever paying for. And the Scottish sporting establishment, governing bodies and media, want everything possible to be done to facilitate Rangers, who have destroyed the sporting integrity of the Scottish game, escaping the consequences of their self-inflicted troubles."

[Cheshire Hibee]

Have you written to the Board to express your view. We need to stop this before it happens, not go off in the sulk afterwards.

For what it is worth, I think that if there is one club that will vote against then it is Hibs. Let's give RP some ammunition though.

If we keep getting the response we have had so far to the site www.splsurvey.co.uk the idea is to send the results to all clubs so they can get a feel of what we the fans are thinking.

3075 responses so far in 7 hours plus a mention Reporting Scotland earlier tonight about the site and the fans response so if you know anyone on rival fans borads and can share the link then hopefully we can get more momentum.

:thumbsup:

[jgl07]

I received something very similar - not attending matches and not renewing STs hurts only Hibs, but doesn't hurt Rangers, their supporters or any other club. Also tried to reassure that all SPL clubs want to do the right thing for the whole of Scottish football.

They miss the point.

The idea behind a (threatened) boycott is not to hurt Rangers but to send out a warning to Hibs that if they vote to readmit the cheating bassas they must bear the consequences.

This will take Scottish Football to a new low and discourage anyone from taking the SPL seriously. This will set a process in motion that will result in the effective demise of the league.

The SPL need to think long term and not chase every penny that they can extract from the bigot brothers in the short term.

If Rangers are liquidated; for the sake of the integrity of the SFL and the SPL they must start at the bottom.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

My vote is to bin the SPL and go back to the SFA, the SPL have shown themselves to be commercially incopetent and unable to preserve sporting integrity. No way should the SPL allow themselves different rules to the rest of the SFA in my view - what's happened to Gretna should go for everyone

[GreenPJ]

I'd rather not quote directly, but the gist of it was basically that we should ignore the Rangers situation and back Hibs regardless. I hadn't even suggested that anyone should stop giving money to Hibs.

My problem really is that any endorsement of the newco concept is in complete contradiction of the values that Hibs have been adhering to for the last 10 years or so. All this prudence talk and using some of the transfer (and car park) income to pay down the debt level will have been a complete waste of time. Hibs should have spent >100% of their income on player wages, spent the transfer and car parkp income on transfer fees and achieved greater success on the pitch. Then whenever the **** hit the fan they could have formed a newco, and let HMRC and whoever else sing for the debts ran up by the old company.

Two wrongs and all that.

[yeezus.]

Can't wait to see Rangers in Division 3 like they should be next season. Maybe then Stair Park will get some people turning up.

[Ozyhibby]

I received something very similar - not attending matches and not renewing STs hurts only Hibs, but doesn't hurt Rangers, their supporters or any other club. Also tried to reassure that all SPL clubs want to do the right thing for the whole of Scottish football.

If that's the case the they can gtf as far as I'm concerned.

[grunt]

I received something very similar - not attending matches and not renewing STs hurts only Hibs, but doesn't hurt Rangers, their supporters or any other club. Also tried to reassure that all SPL clubs want to do the right thing for the whole of Scottish football.


If that's the case the they can gtf as far as I'm concerned.The response from Hibs seems perfectly reasonable to me. They are saying that our fans should focus on and continue to support Hibs. What else would you expect them to say?

[grunt]

Unbelievable statement from Rangers Supporters Trust last night. A boycott - that'll certainly help their team get back on its feet! And what a poor show from the SPL in "reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole". It's not like their own club would do anything like that.


"The board of the Rangers Supporters Trust, like other fans of the club, are not in the least surprised by the actions and timing of the SPL decision to vote on rule changes which has now further delayed a future takeover of Rangers. Given the severity of the possible sanctions, and their impact on any club who may also fall on hard times through mismanagement, it leaves us little option but to give serious consideration of calling for a boycott of away fixtures by Rangers fans next season; specifically targeting those clubs who have rushed through the proposals to punish our club with these excessive and draconian penalties.“We will discuss this in the near future with our sister organisations, the Rangers Supporters Association and Assembly, to maximise impact and collate ideas on how a boycott could be facilitated if deemed necessary.
“It may also be important to consider how these severe penalties, currently aimed at one club in particular, will impact future league and club sponsorship and have a secondary impact on all clubs, reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole"

[StevieC]

Unbelievable statement from Rangers Supporters Trust last night. A boycott - that'll certainly help their team get back on its feet! And what a poor show from the SPL in "reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole". It's not like their own club would do anything like that.

A boycott would actually suit some of these guys, due to the stadia capacity and ticket availability in the 3rd division. Makes sense for the (slightly) more intelligent Trust guys to try and get the steal on tickets from the knuckle-draggers.

[ancienthibby]

A boycott would actually suit some of these guys, due to the stadia capacity and ticket availability in the 3rd division. Makes sense for the (slightly) more intelligent Trust guys to try and get the steal on tickets from the knuckle-draggers.

Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/04/13/jim-traynor-column-rangers-must-start-from-scratch-in-division-three-86908-23823231/

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Unbelievable statement from Rangers Supporters Trust last night. A boycott - that'll certainly help their team get back on its feet! And what a poor show from the SPL in "reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole". It's not like their own club would do anything like that.


Excellent. Just think of the money clubs will save on policing Rangers fans.

[JeMeSouviens]

Unbelievable statement from Rangers Supporters Trust last night. A boycott - that'll certainly help their team get back on its feet! And what a poor show from the SPL in "reducing the stature of Scottish football as a whole". It's not like their own club would do anything like that.

Fantastic idea! If no Huns are going to turn up at other grounds, makes it even easier to kick them down to Div 3. :agree:

[PatHead]

Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/04/13/jim-traynor-column-rangers-must-start-from-scratch-in-division-three-86908-23823231/


That is the biggest turn around I have heard of since St Paul on the road to Damascus! Hope you don't mind if I attach this to the Poll by Cheshire. Maybe the press are at long last remembering there are other clubs!

[ancienthibby]

That is the biggest turn around I have heard of since St Paul on the road to Damascus! Hope you don't mind if I attach this to the Poll by Cheshire. Maybe the press are at long last remembering there are other clubs!

Please do, Pat!

It needs the widest possible circulation!:thumbsup:

[Dan Sarf]

Some insightful comments from a Mr. Goram in the Sun today:


"The SPL don’t half know how to kick a man when he’s down.
I’d like to say that their spanner-in-the-works statement shocked me when it was released on Wednesday.Sadly, it didn’t.The fact is NOTHING that self-serving mob ever do surprises me any more.
They've never done Rangers - or Celtic for that matter - any favours, nor are they ever likely to either."



:faf:

[cabbageandribs1875]

there's only two andy gorams

[Bishop Hibee]

Some insightful comments from a Mr. Goram in the Sun today:


"The SPL don’t half know how to kick a man when he’s down.
I’d like to say that their spanner-in-the-works statement shocked me when it was released on Wednesday.Sadly, it didn’t.The fact is NOTHING that self-serving mob ever do surprises me any more.
They've never done Rangers - or Celtic for that matter - any favours, nor are they ever likely to either."





:faf:

Which Goram made that comment :blah: Obviously currying favour with the OF. Maybe needing a bit of dosh from speaking engagements to pay the rent on his caravan.

I heard Jim Traynor last night on Sportsound and he was saying the same thing as he says in his article in the Record. I hope the SPL 10 and Celtc have the bottle to punt the huns but I doubt it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Anyone watching this Mark Dingwall on Sky just now...a complete idiot of the highest order. Totally embarrassing and yet again the Huns are so ignorant to the cheating that they've overseen. Hope they rot in hell!


AKA grandmaster_suck, runs the swallow swallow site, a big bag o wind

[Hibs Class]

there's only two andy gorams

:agree: and they are both fat ignorant bigots

[Hibs Class]

UEFA have noted their confidence that Scottish authorities will deal with Rangers appropriately

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17700729

It's an interesting choice of words. They are "entirely confident" that there will be "compliance with the national club licensing regulations" and in the "spirit of Uefa's club licensing and financial fair play regulations."

It feels like it may be more of a warning shot to the SFA/SPl than an expression of confidence, particularly the reference to the spirit of fair play.

[IndieHibby]

Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....:greengrin


Dear Sirs/Madam,

As one not normally taken to this kind of communication, I hope you recognise the strength of feeling required to motivate me to write to you.

For the record, I am (despite the last few terrible seasons) proud of our club, the infrastructure developments that you have made and am convinvced of the long-term strategy you seem to be taking, even if this has inevitably reduced the quality of the team on the park (notwithstanding poor managers!).

It is precisely for this reason, however, that I am deeply concerned by the recent proposals by Mr Doncaster which, on the face of it, seem to prepare the ground for re-entry of a 'Rangers Newco' to the league.

My concern is that we (Hibs fans) have sweetened the bitter pill of our recent poor league and cup form with sound financial management and infrastructure development. This sweetner would prove very bitter if Rangers (given their alledged cheating and tax-evasion) were competing against us in the SPL next season (given the largely-held view that they should be expelled from the league).

It is an outrageous affront to the notion of sporting integrity - the ONLY reason fans are interested in sport - that this may come to pass.

Accordingly, should Hibernian F.C. vote for any proposal that allows this to happen (or indeed if it does happen, even if HFC votes against it) then I will cease all suport for the Hibs (while they remain part of the SPL).

This is not an empty gesture and it will be with a heavy heart that I make such a decision. But in life, such decisions are often the hardest to make. In my experience, they tend also to be the right ones.

I am aware that there may be 'real-politik' affecting the thinking those like yourselves who 'run' our clubs and the game in Scotland. This, however, has little or no bearing on what fans like me percieve to be the over-riding concern at this point.

How can I encourage the next generation of Hibs fans to support a system which rewards cheating and tax-evasion at the expense of Hibs and the wider principles of sporting integrity?

Yours Faithfully,

[flash]

Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....:greengrin

Not sure turning your back on Hibs even if they do what you want them to is"doing your bit."

[Brebners Bookie]

Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/04/13/jim-traynor-column-rangers-must-start-from-scratch-in-division-three-86908-23823231/

Wow, fairplay to Traynor. He has it right.

[pentlando]

Didn't want anyone accusing me of not doing my bit....:greengrin

You would cease supporting Hibs even in the event they vote against the proposals, which is what your email is asking them to do?? Bizarre.

[pentlando]

Traynor

Been off in Ozland for his holidogs.

He's apparently seen the light!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/04/13/jim-traynor-column-rangers-must-start-from-scratch-in-division-three-86908-23823231/

Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

[bawheid]

You would cease supporting Hibs even in the event they vote against the proposals, which is what your email is asking them to do?? Bizarre.

I think the point is that he would cease to support Scottish football, as it will have been shown up to be a sham. I would feel the same.

Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

[pentlando]

I think the point is that he would cease to support Scottish football, as it will have been shown up to be a sham. I would feel the same.

Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

What about if your support was based on what Hibs vote for? Personally, I would feel much better about the whole sorry mess if Rod & co would come out and say they are 100% opposed to Phoenix clubs (not just Huns, all of them) and will vote against any measure designed to allow them direct access to the SPL.

Edit: sorry, didn't read the above posts. d'oh! Still think RP should put his cards on the table. How are folk supposed to make up their minds about ST renewals etc if we don't even know the position of our own club, let alone the others.

[jgl07]

Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

That is the Celtic agenda.

They want Rangers to stay in the SPL but to be crippled by cash withheld and points deductions to leave the field clear for.......... Celtic.

The odds are that Rangers even with financial penalties and points deductions will still finish second.

[IndieHibby]

Yeah but his email was directly to Hibs. There's no point demanding Hibs do something if your support for Hibs is based on what other clubs vote for, not our own.

My support for Hibs is not based on what other clubs vote for. I have an interest in football (not the cheating, corrupt type) and as such I support Hibs. But what is the point of supporting a team that is not as good as it could be, when another team in the league can steal money from me and you (tax) to fund players that come out and beat us - time and again?

If that is your idea of sport then your are welcome to it.

Hence my email.

I want Hibs to do the right thing - I said as much. But if Hibs vote against the Newco, yet the Newco still enters the league and beats us every match, then how does that make the problem above go away? It doesn't - hence my point about not supporting a game that is corrupt.

I hope this clarifies my position.

[greenginger]

Bit worried that I agree with Traynor here. Relegating them to the bottom of Division 3 could actually be better for Rangers than the punishments outlined by the SPL. Maybe we should be considering this prospect too?

Towards the end of the Article Traynor suggests Rangers can win promotions easily in the SFL and " hoard " the season ticket money for an assualt on the SPL when they return.

Any New-Co will have no previous losses to set against the vast fortunes Traynor believes will be accrued in the lower divisions and every penny profit would be subject to Corporation Tax at 30%.

Unless of course they intend to stiff the Tax - Man again. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

the buns would claw back any -10 points deduction within the first 5/6 games, and any SPL money deducted(i've saw figures of approx 1.7m) would be clawed back with two high profile friendlies, if i was a betting man(which i'm not) i would safely bet on the buns winning the league :aok: next season :(

[IndieHibby]

Not sure turning your back on Hibs even if they do what you want them to is"doing your bit."

Surely you can understand that the point is not that I am 'turning my back on Hibs' but 'turning my back on the SPL'?

But of course, we should just keep paying our hard earned cash to support a system rigged against us.

How silly of me - pass the vaseline when you're done....

[jgl07]

the buns would claw back any -10 points deduction within the first 5/6 games, and any SPL money deducted(i've saw figures of approx 1.7m) would be clawed back with two high profile friendlies, if i was a betting man(which i'm not) i would safely bet on the buns winning the league :aok: next season :(

You appear to be missing something here.

The reason Rangers got into this mess was that they could not compete financially with Celtic who have a 10,000 more seats and usually at least 5,000 higher gates. They fiddled taxes, paid no-one and ran up debts to try and cover this up.

They will not be competing in Europe for three seasons at least so Celtic have a further potential income stream. Celtic will be seeded in two qualifying rounds for the Champions' League in the comparatively tranquil 'champions section of the draw. They can expect to face the likes HJK Helsinki or Molde in the third qualifying round and nothing harder than the Swiss Champions' in the playoff round. So Celtic should have a good chance at the group stages and vast quantities of cash.

That will all leave Celtic with a huge financial advantage over Rangers especially with the claw backs.

So a Newco would suddenly be able to pull 10 points back on Celtic in 5-6 games and win the SPL?

[easty]

Excellent. Just think of the money clubs will save on policing Rangers fans.

You'd still need all the police, they'd be needed outside at the Huns "picket line".

Can you imagine those dirty unwashed ****my tramps screaming **** at any Huns fan that dared to oppose the boycott.....that'd be like being called ugly at a Stevie Fulton lookalike contest!

[cabbageandribs1875]

You appear to be missing something here.

The reason Rangers got into this mess was that they could not compete financially with Celtic who have a 10,000 more seats and usually at least 5,000 higher gates. They fiddled taxes, paid no-one and ran up debts to try and cover this up.

They will not be competing in Europe for three seasons at least so Celtic have a further potential income stream. Celtic will be seeded in two qualifying rounds for the Champions' League in the comparatively tranquil 'champions section of the draw. They can expect to face the likes HJK Helsinki or Molde in the third qualifying round and nothing harder than the Swiss Champions' in the playoff round. So Celtic should have a good chance at the group stages and vast quantities of cash.

That will all leave Celtic with a huge financial advantage over Rangers especially with the claw backs.

So a Newco would suddenly be able to pull 10 points back on Celtic in 5-6 games and win the SPL?

ok i should have made that clearer, they would claw back the -10 point deficit against every team bar sellick, then all they would have to do is win there games against sellick... which is pefectly feasable yes ? even when they do go 'all legal' and start paying the taxman etc etc they will still get millions in investment, full houses etc etc, even with the off-field problems they have had the last few months they would still have only been 8 points behind sellick just now(without the -10 deduction they got) if they didn't have a couple of bad results they STILL could have won this seasons league, obviously i understand the points you make above, the loss of income from european games will be offset with glamour friendlies, lets just wait and see the league positions in exactly 12 months from now :agree:

[jgl07]

ok i should have made that clearer, they would claw back the -10 point deficit against every team bar sellick, then all they would have to do is win there games against sellick... which is pefectly feasable yes ? even when they do go 'all legal' and start paying the taxman etc etc they will still get millions in investment, full houses etc etc, even with the off-field problems they have had the last few months they would still have only been 8 points behind sellick just now(without the -10 deduction they got) if they didn't have a couple of bad results they STILL could have won this seasons league, obviously i understand the points you make above, the loss of income from european games will be offset with glamour friendlies, lets just wait and see the league positions in exactly 12 months from now :agree:

Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.

on the contrary jg, they got an attendance of 47,521 just two weeks ago against AC milan, i'm not quite sure the whole story regarding that game, but i believe it went from being originally in aid of charity....to instead helping out the forces of darkness :greengrin :agree: but anyway, i do hope you're predictions come true :wink:

[pentlando]

My support for Hibs is not based on what other clubs vote for. I have an interest in football (not the cheating, corrupt type) and as such I support Hibs. But what is the point of supporting a team that is not as good as it could be, when another team in the league can steal money from me and you (tax) to fund players that come out and beat us - time and again?

If that is your idea of sport then your are welcome to it.

Hence my email.

I want Hibs to do the right thing - I said as much. But if Hibs vote against the Newco, yet the Newco still enters the league and beats us every match, then how does that make the problem above go away? It doesn't - hence my point about not supporting a game that is corrupt.

I hope this clarifies my position.

Well in your email you said it was, you said if Hibs voted against the proposals but they were voted through anyway you would cease all support for Hibs. I could understand you saying if Hibs vote for the proposals I'll not support Hibs anymore. You've basically given the board an ultimatum on a situation they do not have 100% control over. I don't think that's fair on the board.

Personally supporting Hibs is ingrained in me, I think we've all been aware over time that the situations at Rangers and latterly Hearts wasn't fair, but we kept going back. I've already bought my season ticket and would have done so even if I knew in advance Rangers were getting away scot free.

Everything in life is corrupt. There is, and will always be, ways to cheat at everything. When we punish one thing another measure will simply be exploited. Corruption in sport will never go away, all we can do is try best deal with it when we can. I think we have to realise that in reality, the punishment given to Rangers will rest inbetween no punishment and the most severe punishment. The SPL resolutions are probably near enough that. Removing support for Hibs isn't going to help punish Rangers in any way at all. Fair enough if you feel you can just switch off your loyalty to Hibs and interest in football over the issue.

[johnrebus]

Celtic gave Rangers a fifteen point lead and beat them easily regardless of the ten point penalty

There is little appetite to attend 'glamour friendlies' these days. If it was that easy they would have been doing it in the past.

I don't disagree about catching the rest after 5-6 matches but I can't see them winning the SPL for a year or two.

The Newco will have next to no players as I suspect that a good number will be off as their contracts will revert to the SPL or be nullified. They need to sort things out before they can start signing. It will be a major task to even put a team on the park for next season.

They may not even have a stadium if Craig Whyte contests the ownership issue regarding Ibrox.


This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.


:grr:

[Dashing Bob S]

This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.


:grr:

Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.

[ballengeich]

Scottish football needs to kick Rangers down to Division 3. If Scottish football doesn't do this, Hibs will suffer. Even if they didn't vote for it themselves.

You're making the assumption that the SFL would be willing to accept a Newco Rangers. The SPL can't impose that and surely it would be better for the SFL to admit one of the other clubs that would apply for a vacancy as it would have a longer term interest in making the SFL work. The junior grade would still be available for the Newco.

[magpie1892]

This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.


:grr:

I feel your pain but I don't think what you say is a foregone conclusion. If - and it remains a big if - with HMRC on the case (no pun intended), UEFA waching closely, the fact that Whyte will not go without a fight (and owns Ibrox/Murray Park), the cancellation/reversion of the players' contracts on liquidation, the lack of revenue from Europe, etc.,etc. there's still a fair bit of water to go under the bridge, I reckon.

Even if they get parachuted in to the SPL as a newco, they'll still not have their troubles to seek. Obviously I wish they'd die but I think if they do survive they'll have a harder time of it than you might imagine.

[ancienthibby]

This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.


:grr:

Disagree, Mr Rebus!

jgl07 at 4922 above was on the mark though he could have gone further.

There will be a real mass exodus from HunsNewco over the summer and next year's team will be made up of half the U-19 team most likely and a rump of current players. Many teams gave RFC a hard time this year and they will be licking their lips at the prospect of humping the Huns. Of course, now that one J Traynor has 'seen the light' maybe they won't be in the SPL after all!:devil:

None of the three bidders have any real cash to make a splash in the transfer market and HunsNewco will have to make swingeing staff cuts.:agree:

[grunt]

More from the man at Ch4

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/political-interference-scottish-football/1134


Part 1 – The Case of Alex Salmond
One thing’s quietly emerging if you probe enough – and that’s the ever-so-gentlemanly turf war being fought over Ibrox, well away from Ibrox.
The Scottish Football Association boss Stewart Regan broke cover to me three days back, responding to questions from Channel 4 News about why Alex Salmond phoned HMRC on 11 Jan to ask about the Rangers’ tax position (http://www.channel4.com/news/rangers).
Mr Regan made it clear he did not want to get into specifics on this. But equally made it plain there is a heightened sense at the SFA’s Hampden Park HQ that Scotland’s politicians have rolled their tanks onto the SFA’s lawn. The SFA want them off.
He wrote:
“I have already spoken to the Sports Minister, Shona Robinson some weeks ago about the Scottish Government’s involvement in football matters and reminded her of the need to let football govern and regulate its own affairs without interference, especially in light of FIFA’s views on this issue.”
FIFA’s views on the issue of political interference into football clubs being very public and widely known.
Mr Salmond’s people vehemently deny it was political “interference” The First Minister’s Office say the 11 Jan call:
“…centred on securing a settlement to enable Rangers to meet their obligations to the taxpayer (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-morality-repaying-owe/1114) and continue in business.”
They say they thus acted in the public interest. That’s that. No story.

But in football politics things are rarely so straightforward. Clearly Mr Regan, still relatively new at the SFA, sees political interference and is concerned enough to write to the Sports Minister, asking for it to stop please.
Moreover, what matters is how UEFA, European Football’s governing body, sees actions like these? Michel Platini has made great hay during his tenure as UEFA boss, of financial fair play. In public UEFA can do little more than pledge support to the SFA and Rangers. In private they are angry and embarrassed at the unfolding Rangers mess. Rangers, frankly, is a big blot on their landscape.
Not least, because the club was of course the first in Scotland to get a licence in 2003 for – amongst other things – financial good housekeeping, when as we now know it was as much a casino as a football club. All this in now unfolding, UEFA know and they are unamused.
And along with financial fair play comes political interference which has seen FIFA – football’s world governing body – take strong action against some member countries with meddling politicians.
The question of Scottish politicians getting involved with both the taxman and administrators over Rangers was described to me as “difficult and complex” by UEFA’s press office on the record. So difficult and complex that I’ve waited three days to get any answer and have thus far failed. Away from their press office one official spoke on condition of anonymity and said “we are concerned, we have all this in our sights but the key agency here is the SFA”. Clearly the SFA do too.
Even though Mr Salmond has spoken about this phone call in a TV interview with Al Jazeera and it’s been reported in the press, there’s still great official secrecy shrouding what was actually said, which to this day has not been cleared up.
According to a recent Freedom of Information request, details relating to the call cannot be made public according to Holyrood officials because it would “prejudice substantially” relations between Scottish and UK governments.
Yet, a couple of lines later, the same official – Patrick Berry – who wrote that, claims the information wouldn’t greatly add anything to public knowledge.
Well Patrick – which is it? Either it’s substantially prejudicial or it’s not going to add to our knowledge but it certainly can’t be both.
Curiouser and curiouser.
As for the First Minister, his staff quite rightly point out that he’s spoken to HMRC with regard to other companies in trouble. But how many of them potentially owed the taxpayer £75 million?
Equally the argument that RFC is somehow another Ravenscraig, a victim of external forces and circumstance where the First Minister must act, would surely be open to question by some?
RFC owes Big Tax already. It could soon owe Vast Tax. RFC created the mess RFC is in. Nobody else. And I can tell you first hand that UEFA is deeply unhappy at the mess. As, no doubt is Alex Salmond.
If RFC lose the Big Tax Case many honest taxpayers will say the last thing it deserves is survival. Holyrood would say what matters is the best deal for the taxpayer. And so would the HMRC.
So Alex Salmond’s damned whatever he does. Fail to act and you look like you don’t care. Act and you’ve the minefield of national and international football politics to contend with.
To say nothing of the fans, divided as ever.

[grunt]

And here's an update from D&P


Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "Following discussions with three parties bidding to purchase the football club, we can confirm that all three parties have informed us today they wish to remain in the sale process."However, following the information supplied by us to bidders in relation to proposed new rules on penalties for insolvent clubs within the SPL, there have been changes made to the conditions attached to bids.

Among the new conditions are requests from parties who now, before committing further, wish access to the football authorities in order to seek greater clarity on the proposed rule changes. We hope to provide Rangers supporters with a further update next week and will continue to make every effort to reach the point where a preferred bidder can be announced.

We are keen to conclude an offer as soon as possible and certainly we would hope that this does not mean that finalisation is delayed until April 30, 2012.

[CropleyWasGod]

And here's an update from D&P

Back from my travels :greengrin

I have only skimmed over the events of the last few days.......and have no view on them yet.

However, what strikes me is the extension of the process which has been caused by the SPL stuff. I think it is significant that D and P say they want things finalised before the 30th.

That says to me that they are increasingly concerned about RFC's cash position. As I understood it, the wage deals enabled them to budget to the end of the season..... in the hope that a takeover could be done before that.

If they have to wait until May, some players' wages may go back up... some players may be allowed to walk. I don't know if RFC would have the cash to last long in the close season.

Shame.

[snooky]

Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.

Think you're right, Bob - but pray you're wrong.

[Kaiser1962]

Sadly true. The footballing, political and media authorities will ensure this is the case.

Another sad truth: as the result of the above, attendances at the other ten clubs will decline to the point where most of them are no longer viable.


Its arguable whether any of them are viable at the moment Bob, never mind in a years time.

[CropleyWasGod]

Its arguable whether any of them are viable at the moment Bob, never mind in a years time.

Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

[Mikey]

This time next year a team called Rangers will be second in the SPL, miles in front of the next club.

I don't really think that anyone seriously thinks otherwise.


:grr:

Here's what I said in post 37 in this thread, 26 minutes after the thread was started.........


They'll start next season with a clean slate, same name, same stadium and much much more money to spend than the ten below them.

I haven't seen too much to prove that wrong yet :rolleyes:

[cabbageandribs1875]

God save our gracious Queen
She *ucked some weedgie team
God save our Queen

They ain't victorious
just *ucking odious
now they'll stop boring us
with god save the Queen....


this tune should be in the charts :faf:

[Kaiser1962]

Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

Are we viable at the moment CWG?

Motherwell also posted a small profit and have no significant debt but, like St. Mirren, they do not have a particularly fruitful recent history.

Not sure what St.J posted this year (for 10-11) but in 09-10 they lost 60k having lost 190k in the previous season. They were in the first for seven seasons prior to this despite Geoff Browns famed eye for a manager.

(Edit: St. J appear to have been reasonably profitable for the last three years they were in the 1st, so perhaps its not the black hole some would have us believe)

Same with ICT in that last season (dont have figures) they were in the SPL having won promotion straight back from being relegated in 08-09. Figures for 08-09 show that they lost 114k having lost 432k the season before.

[PatHead]

Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone? Inverness have just posted an increased profit, I think.

I think I read Hearts made a profit as well according to their latest set of accounts filed in the Fiction section of the library

[CropleyWasGod]

Are we viable at the moment CWG?

Motherwell also posted a small profit and have no significant debt but, like St. Mirren, they do not have a particularly fruitful recent history.

Not sure what St.J posted this year (for 10-11) but in 09-10 they lost 60k having lost 190k in the previous season. They were in the first for seven seasons prior to this despite Geoff Browns famed eye for a manager.

(Edit: St. J appear to have been reasonably profitable for the last three years they were in the 1st, so perhaps its not the black hole some would have us believe)

Same with ICT in that last season (dont have figures) they were in the SPL having won promotion straight back from being relegated in 08-09. Figures for 08-09 show that they lost 114k having lost 432k the season before.

Yes we are viable, in the sense that, if our income drops, we are well placed to take the hit. We are well known (notorious?) for our ability to cut our cloth according to the market.

[pedroorange1875]

Maybe they would also like to request to get reinstated in the semi of the scottish cup. Maybe Mike Reilly has offered our place in the competition. This is becoming absolutely ridiculous, i think all the people involved in this Rangers fiasco have forgotten they are close to winding not in a positon to be dictating SPL rules and regulations. Its beyond unbelievable

[Alex Trager]

Maybe they would also like to request to get reinstated in the semi of the scottish cup. Maybe Mike Reilly has offered our place in the competition. This is becoming absolutely ridiculous, i think all the people involved in this Rangers fiasco have forgotten they are close to winding not in a positon to be dictating SPL rules and regulations. Its beyond unbelievable

And yet the SPL still bows down to them. The SPL is an aboslote farce of a league, and whatsmore their continuous buggery with the old firm is showing it up for what it is. A joke

[Kaiser1962]

Yes we are viable, in the sense that, if our income drops, we are well placed to take the hit. We are well known (notorious?) for our ability to cut our cloth according to the market.


I have no do doubt we are as well placed as any other club should income drop, and we respond appropriateley when things change, but perhaps we are the best of a bad lot.

[IndieHibby]

Well in your email you said it was, you said if Hibs voted against the proposals but they were voted through anyway you would cease all support for Hibs. I could understand you saying if Hibs vote for the proposals I'll not support Hibs anymore. You've basically given the board an ultimatum on a situation they do not have 100% control over. I don't think that's fair on the board.

Personally supporting Hibs is ingrained in me, I think we've all been aware over time that the situations at Rangers and latterly Hearts wasn't fair, but we kept going back. I've already bought my season ticket and would have done so even if I knew in advance Rangers were getting away scot free.

Everything in life is corrupt. There is, and will always be, ways to cheat at everything. When we punish one thing another measure will simply be exploited. Corruption in sport will never go away, all we can do is try best deal with it when we can. I think we have to realise that in reality, the punishment given to Rangers will rest inbetween no punishment and the most severe punishment. The SPL resolutions are probably near enough that. Removing support for Hibs isn't going to help punish Rangers in any way at all. Fair enough if you feel you can just switch off your loyalty to Hibs and interest in football over the issue.

I respect your cynicism, but equally disagree. Yes, there will always be ways to cheat and yes, I agree that there will always be those who cheat. This doesn't mean cheats shouldn't be punished. In my opinion.

Hibs play in the SPL and if the SPL is corrupted, then by paying money to Hibs, I am, in effect, sponsoring corruption.

To imply that it should be harder for me to 'switch off my loyalty' (which isn't actually the issue here) implies that my support of Hibs should supercede my desire for sporting integrity.

It doesn't.

[CentreLine]

I respect your cynicism, but equally disagree. Yes, there will always be ways to cheat and yes, I agree that there will always be those who cheat. This doesn't mean cheats shouldn't be punished. In my opinion.

Hibs play in the SPL and if the SPL is corrupted, then by paying money to Hibs, I am, in effect, sponsoring corruption.

To imply that it should be harder for me to 'switch off my loyalty' (which isn't actually the issue here) implies that my support of Hibs should supercede my desire for sporting integrity.

It doesn't.

Have to agree with you Indie, the SPL, SFL and SFA need to look very closely at what they are going to do if a Newco Rangers comes out of this mess. Get it wrong and they put the last nail in the coffin of the senior game in Scotland. Clearly there are a significant number of people who will not be prepared to continue supporting Scottish football if it blows any credibility it has left by failing to ensure any new club seeking admission to the leagues starts at the bottom. The message has to go out loud and clear that cheating will not be acceptable and the percieved size of the club involved cannot be allowed to stand in the way of that simple principal

[TrinityHibs]

Went to the Lyceum last night. Good show with a classic line. Alex Salmond is supposesd to be on the phone to his financial adviser who responds "Alex will you stop going on about Rangers and the fact that they are a very important institution in Scotland. I've aready agreed. They're like Carstairs just with more mentallers:greengrin

[BroxburnHibee]

Reading a bit more about this Rangers fiasco and one point thats been made is this - if any of the bids involved a CVA as part of the deal then surely a preferred bidder status would have been announced by now.

So it looks to me like they all want to liquidate the huns.

My question is this.......................
































What a f*****g shame eh? :tee hee:

[CentreLine]

Slowly but surely the penny is dropping with at least some in the press

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/expediency-trumps-justice.17309455

[cabbageandribs1875]

Slowly but surely the penny is dropping with at least some in the press

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/expediency-trumps-justice.17309455



Campbell Ogilvie, meanwhile, a Rangers director during much of this period, and now president of the SFA, admits to having had an EBT provided by the club. Ogilvie was given loans by Rangers which, to date, have not been repaid. "Perhaps I should have asked more questions [of Sir David Murray] during this time," he now says lamely, the adverse publicity horse having loudly bolted.


i think it's disgraceful that toad appears to be getting a very easy ride :agree:

[PatHead]

It keeps getting pushed out about losing the Sky TV deal. Surely no sponsor worth their salt would want to be associated with a corrupt organisation? Are the marketing people at the SPL not capable of "spinning" the integrity of the league to new sponsors and making up the loss?

[Spike Mandela]

I see C4's Alex Thomson is going to reveal the Glasgow journalist who has been threatening him, with evidence. Should be fun.:greengrin

[John_the_angus_hibby]

I see C4's Alex Thomson is going to reveal the Glasgow journalist who has been threatening him, with evidence. Should be fun.:greengrin

When? On his blog and/or C4 news? I wonder who it was, a big name or an also ran print journo??


Sent from another universe!

[Spike Mandela]

When? On his blog and/or C4 news? I wonder who it was, a big name or an also ran print journo??


Sent from another universe!

Radio Clyde 7pm apparently:rolleyes:

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Today's essential reading... http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/balance-of-probabilities/

[Ozyhibby]

Blue knights about to withdraw according to the Herald.

[marinello59]

Blue knights about to withdraw according to the Herald.

If that is true then liquidation seems all but inevitable now.

[HiBremian]

Today's essential reading... http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/balance-of-probabilities/

Of special interest towards the end:

22 May 2005- is a cherished memory for all Rangers fans. Rangers beat Hibs at Easter Road to clinch the SPL title. Neil Doncaster needs to ask: “How many members of the Rangers squad that day were, or would become, beneficiaries of the EBT scheme?” (Let me help him out- it will be a lot easier to count those who did not participate). The truth is that many of the Rangers squad would not have been anywhere near Easter Road that day without the use of the EBT scheme. If the EBT scheme is deemed to be illegal, the SFA and the SPL cannot pretend that the second contracts held by the vast majority of the Rangers’ first team players during the middle of the last decade were just a procedural transgression of no material impact. On the balance of probabilities would Rangers have been crowned Scottish Premier League champions that day without the use of the EBT scheme?

[CentreLine]

Blue knights about to withdraw according to the Herald.

Is there a link to that story? Of course it may just be a bluff but it would be good to see the strength of the story

[PaulSmith]

Is there a link to that story? Of course it may just be a bluff but it would be good to see the strength of the story

Alastair Lamont tweeting now that ticketus and Ng have agreed a deal and that they are now only show in town

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Is there a link to that story? Of course it may just be a bluff but it would be good to see the strength of the story

Fill your boots http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/blue-knights-to-step-back-from-rangers-bid.1334605292

[blindsummit]

I had to laugh when I read in the BBC story on the barren knights, that they expected Ticketus to pay the $1M deposit for the bid! :faf:

They weren't even prepared to put own cash at any time, it was all guff. They would have made perfect rankgers owners. :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

Fudd and Fudder have just released a statement confirming the Blue Knights aren't actually knights after all. Chivalry is not for them:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

If that is true then liquidation seems all but inevitable now.

TBH, I don't think it makes liquidation any more or any less likely.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ng has bottomless pockets.

[Eyrie]

He was reported to be willing to put £20m of his £40m fortune into the Huns.

Even with the Ticketus money that's not going to be enough to satisfy HMRC in a CVA, providing they win the BTC. We need that decision to go in the taxman's favour.

[PatHead]

TBH, I don't think it makes liquidation any more or any less likely.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ng has bottomless pockets.

Don't know if you missed it whilst on holiday but Ng has an estimated fortune of 40 million. No bottomless pockets there, however there are other members of his bid who may have money.

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't know if you missed it whilst on holiday but Ng has an estimated fortune of 40 million. No bottomless pockets there, however there are other members of his bid who may have money.

Ah... didn't realise that. In that case, WTF is he putting half his dosh into a football club for?

[Eyrie]

Allegedly he's been a die-hard Hun since they won the Cup Winners Cup.

[CentreLine]

Fill your boots http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/blue-knights-to-step-back-from-rangers-bid.1334605292

Brilliant, cheers. Doesn't half call the bluff of Mr Ng, it will be interesting to see his next move. No surprise BK's finally showing their end game. Always likely they were going to find a reason to withdraw. Hopefully this is it

[PatHead]

Ah... didn't realise that. In that case, WTF is he putting half his dosh into a football club for?

Don't know but certainly not rich enough to get Rangers out of the deep doo-doo. That is assuming he will actually put any money in.........

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't know but certainly not rich enough to get Rangers out of the deep doo-doo. That is assuming he will actually put any money in.........

How can anyone buy Rangers without putting any money in?


Oh, wait......

[PatHead]

By the way good to see Ticketus getting their own back on the B K "hard bargain" as acclaimed by the Weegie press

[Part/Time Supporter]

Allegedly he's been a die-hard Hun since they won the Cup Winners Cup.

That struck me as a strange one. Would the 1972 European Cup Winners' Cup Final really have been on telly in Singapore? I think that's too far back in terms of the amount of football shown on TV (particularly live).

[Hibernia&Alba]

Allegedly he's been a die-hard Hun since they won the Cup Winners Cup.

He was on the pitch rioting and was sad he didn't get to see the team lift the cup in the dressing room.

[Kaiser1962]

TBH, I don't think it makes liquidation any more or any less likely.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ng has bottomless pockets.

I am told Duff and Phelps wanted 500k (non refundable) from the Blue Knights in return for them to be named preffered bidder. BK told D&P to GTF. Alledgedly.

[PatHead]

I am told Duff and Phelps wanted 500k (non refundable) from the Blue Knights in return for them to be named preffered bidder. BK told D&P to GTF. Alledgedly.

Reportedly one of the terms of all the bids had to be a non secured £1m deposit so can't see how they weren't aware of it. This was to show they are serious. Maybe BK were looking for a way out when it became transparent that not everyone (including Ticketus) was on board?

[IWasThere2016]

Thoroughly bored aff ma tats with this now. Why don't they just die quietly and gi'e us all peace???

OF GTF

[PatHead]

SSN now catching up with us!

[grunt]

I had to laugh when I read in the BBC story on the barren knights, that they expected Ticketus to pay the $1M deposit for the bid! :faf: They weren't even prepared to put own cash at any time, it was all guff. They would have made perfect rankgers owners. :greengrinThis amused me too. It's not as if the fee was a surprise, D&P had mentioned it from the start.

[Kaiser1962]

Reportedly one of the terms of all the bids had to be a non secured £1m deposit so can't see how they weren't aware of it. This was to show they are serious. Maybe BK were looking for a way out when it became transparent that not everyone (including Ticketus) was on board?

That sounds reasonable Pat. Exit stage left. Or should that be right?

[CropleyWasGod]

A wee aside.

On Saturday, due to ineptitude at finding a decent parking space, I found myself among a lot of Dons before and after the game. Banter, of course, was exchanged.

However, one phrase that kept coming up was "F the Huns", at which there was much sage nodding of heads. At one stage, I also heard the expression "F the wee huns, too...".

Solidarity... love it. :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

The Blue Knights...or should that be full of........Craig Whyte...not got two bob to chuck in :greengrin
All we need now is the sting to prove that the Singapore money is part of a crime money laundering operation ....:wink:

[Bishop Hibee]

That struck me as a strange one. Would the 1972 European Cup Winners' Cup Final really have been on telly in Singapore? I think that's too far back in terms of the amount of football shown on TV (particularly live).

A Celtc fan I know reposted the TV page from a paper in Singapore on the day of the above game and low and behold no mention of the game! Similar to Tony Blair saying he'd seen Jackie Milburn play for Newcastle when he was in fact telling porkies. Sounds like Bill Ng and the hun cheats will suit each other well.

[CropleyWasGod]

A Celtc fan I know reposted the TV page from a paper in Singapore on the day of the above game and low and behold no mention of the game! Similar to Tony Blair saying he'd seen Jackie Milburn play for Newcastle when he was in fact telling porkies. Sounds like Bill Ng and the hun cheats will suit each other well.

Bill Ng is an anagram of Blling. :cb

Shutti is his middle name, I reckon. So... crossword fans could guess where I'm going with the next anagram.....

[Seveno]

A Celtc fan I know reposted the TV page from a paper in Singapore on the day of the above game and low and behold no mention of the game! Similar to Tony Blair saying he'd seen Jackie Milburn play for Newcastle when he was in fact telling porkies. Sounds like Bill Ng and the hun cheats will suit each other well.

He must have been watching it live on the interweb. :rolleyes:

[Eyrie]

A Celtc fan I know reposted the TV page from a paper in Singapore on the day of the above game and low and behold no mention of the game! Similar to Tony Blair saying he'd seen Jackie Milburn play for Newcastle when he was in fact telling porkies. Sounds like Bill Ng and the hun cheats will suit each other well.
But we know that the Huns would never allow themselves to be taken over by a fantasist with no money.

And am I the only one to wonder at the mentality of the Celtc fan who actually looked that up?

[Part/Time Supporter]

But we know that the Huns would never allow themselves to be taken over by a fantasist with no money.

And am I the only one to wonder at the mentality of the Celtc fan who actually looked that up?

I think you've answered your own question there.

:greengrin

[grunt]

Douglas Fraser‏@BBCDouglsFraser (Fraser‏@BBCDouglsFraser)Blue Knights' message to #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) administrators and Ng bid: show us the Singaporean dollars, and let's see you get a creditor deal
Does anyone else on here find this absolutely hilarious? No? Just me then.

[CropleyWasGod]

Does anyone else on here find this absolutely hilarious? No? Just me then.

... it has to be said in a Dick Emery-type voice. :greengrin

[marinello59]

TBH, I don't think it makes liquidation any more or any less likely.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ng has bottomless pockets.

I didn't realise that Ticketus had jumped ship. You are right, it probably makes no difference to the prospect of liquidation.

[CentreLine]

I didn't realise that Ticketus had jumped ship. You are right, it probably makes no difference to the prospect of liquidation.

I just don't understand why the BK's would expect Ticketus to fund yet another takeover. Have they not just been potentially stung big time? How does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.................

[CropleyWasGod]

I just don't understand why the BK's would expect Ticketus to fund yet another takeover. Have they not just been potentially stung big time? How does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.................

But aren't Ticketus now in bed with Billy-boy Ng?

[EuanH78]

I just don't understand why the BK's would expect Ticketus to fund yet another takeover. Have they not just been potentially stung big time? How does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.................

No, no I think George W. Bush said it best...

Wait a minute, no I think your right first time :greengrin

[greenginger]

But aren't Ticketus now in bed with Billy-boy Ng?



I like the prospect of Ticketus sucking the Huns dry over many years to get their cash back rather than the debt being washed away in a liquidation.

On a different note I see a squabble is starting over claims on the Ibrox Corpse.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/314899/Hearts-could-wipe-out-Rangers-cash-jackpot

There still a few uncertainties though, What if Rangers are docked more points for their footballing crimes and finish in 3rd spot or lower, their would be no cash jackpot to squabble over.

Also , I think EUFA might want a say, as they won't approve of the Scottish clubs being squared-up and their European counterparts being hung out to dry.

This will run and run. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I like the prospect of Ticketus sucking the Huns dry over many years to get their cash back rather than the debt being washed away in a liquidation.

On a different note I see a squabble is starting over claims on the Ibrox Corpse.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/314899/Hearts-could-wipe-out-Rangers-cash-jackpot

There still a few uncertainties though, What if Rangers are docked more points for their footballing crimes and finish in 3rd spot or lower, their would be no cash jackpot to squabble over.

Also , I think EUFA might want a say, as they won't approve of the Scottish clubs being squared-up and their European counterparts being hung out to dry.

This will run and run. :greengrin

If the SPL were to try to divert Hearts' cash, any creditor would then have grounds for complaint, as this would be seen as an unfair preference. Hearts would be getting all of the money they are owed, as opposed to the xpence in the £ that they would get under a CVA or liquidation.

[CentreLine]

If the SPL were to try to divert Hearts' cash, any creditor would then have grounds for complaint, as this would be seen as an unfair preference. Hearts would be getting all of the money they are owed, as opposed to the xpence in the £ that they would get under a CVA or liquidation.

But is the money due to Rangers unconditionally and if not should D&F be counting it as monies due? They are not sure of 2nd place so how can they do that? Is there nobody out there regulating what this bunch are up to? Are they impostors or what? It looks very much like D&F have gambled on keeping players they can't afford in the hope that it will attract a better buyer and a better league position but with no guarantee of either. They then appear to be counting their chickens as it were in respect of the monies due in for that "success". Prompt liquidation on the other hand would deliver a guaranteed sum and a significant reduction in fees to D&F.

I wish they would just get on with it, the way it looks is that they are playing roulette with our (the tax payers) money

[CropleyWasGod]

But is the money due to Rangers unconditionally and if not should D&F be counting it as monies due? They are not sure of 2nd place so how can they do that? Is there nobody out there regulating what this bunch are up to? Are they impostors or what? It looks very much like D&F have gambled on keeping players they can't afford in the hope that it will attract a better buyer and a better league position but with no guarantee of either. They then appear to be counting their chickens as it were in respect of the monies due in for that "success". Prompt liquidation on the other hand would deliver a guaranteed sum and a significant reduction in fees to D&F.

I wish they would just get on with it, the way it looks is that they are playing roulette with our (the tax payers) money

I don't think RFC are counting on it (2nd place money) at all. However, the more they earn through the League, the more there is in the pot for creditors.

As I read the Express piece, it's the media that are suggesting Romanov will ask for RFC's prize-money.

[CentreLine]

I don't think RFC are counting on it (2nd place money) at all. However, the more they earn through the League, the more there is in the pot for creditors.

As I read the Express piece, it's the media that are suggesting Romanov will ask for RFC's prize-money.

I know, sorry, ever the voice of reason CWG. I'm just venting my frustration as RFC seem to be geting away with cheating and it now looks to me like D&F are cheating on their behalf.

[CropleyWasGod]

I know, sorry, ever the voice of reason CWG. I'm just venting my frustration as RFC seem to be geting away with cheating and it now looks to me like D&F are cheating on their behalf.

Giggling here. My kids and various ex-partners would scoff at the idea of me being "the voice of reason" :greengrin

[Seveno]

Giggling here. My kids and various ex-partners would scoff at the idea of me being "the voice of reason" :greengrin

What I would like to know is how you managed to persuade Duff & Duffer to do sweet FA whilst you were away on holiday so that you wouldn't miss anything.

[CropleyWasGod]

What I would like to know is how you managed to persuade Duff & Duffer to do sweet FA whilst you were away on holiday so that you wouldn't miss anything.

I AM DUFFMAN!!!

Here's a wee twist:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17739292

[greenginger]

I AM DUFFMAN!!!

Here's a wee twist:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17739292

Do you think Paul Murray, realizing he might actually win the bidding process, has taken cold feet ? He probably thought he could go along for the publicity ride and maybe get invited to join with a consortium with serious money who would be queuing up to buy der Hun.

Seeing how none appeared it was time for the escape hatch.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you think Paul Murray, realizing he might actually win the bidding process, has taken cold feet ? He probably thought he could go along for the publicity ride and maybe get invited to join with a consortium with serious money who would be queuing up to buy der Hun.

Seeing how none appeared it was time for the escape hatch.

I am intrigued by, even suspicious of, anybody who is in this bidding process. It's like the Hearts' scenario... why buy it now when it could be bought for sweeties later on?

[Dunbar Hibee]

Was hoping after 5,000 posts the *******s would be dead by now!:rolleyes::greengrin

[Jack]

I am intrigued by, even suspicious of, anybody who is in this bidding process. It's like the Hearts' scenario... why buy it now when it could be bought for sweeties later on?

Why buy either when you can get an EPL club for the same price? :greengrin

[johnrebus]

I am intrigued by, even suspicious of, anybody who is in this bidding process. It's like the Hearts' scenario... why buy it now when it could be bought for sweeties later on?


Is there an exact date set aside for the decisions on the WTC and the BTC?

Wouldn't want to go on holiday and miss it - I don't the same influence over D&P as your good self....,


:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there an exact date set aside for the decisions on the WTC and the BTC?

Wouldn't want to go on holiday and miss it - I don't the same influence over D&P as your good self....,


:wink:

Don't fink so...

[PatHead]

Do you think Paul Murray, realizing he might actually win the bidding process, has taken cold feet ? He probably thought he could go along for the publicity ride and maybe get invited to join with a consortium with serious money who would be queuing up to buy der Hun.

Seeing how none appeared it was time for the escape hatch.

Heard he only has £16.90, used the phrase "we will never leave the big house" and "we arra peepil" and thought that was enough to be the saviour of Rangers.

[Leithenhibby]

If the SPL were to try to divert Hearts' cash, any creditor would then have grounds for complaint, as this would be seen as an unfair preference. Hearts would be getting all of the money they are owed, as opposed to the xpence in the £ that they would get under a CVA or liquidation.


So why is this different from DAFC & Dun Utd? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

So why is this different from DAFC & Dun Utd? :wink:

In Dunfermline's case, I think the justification was that, had RFC not paid up, the SPL could have taken action against them such as fines, docking points and the like. In other words, not to pay up might have adversely affected their short-term trading future.

That, I think, was the justification.... but, at the time, I didn't agree with the payment, and I am still not sure I do.

As for United, I wasn't aware that they had been paid. Have they?

[Wat Dabney]

In Dunfermline's case, I think the justification was that, had RFC not paid up, the SPL could have taken action against them such as fines, docking points and the like. In other words, not to pay up might have adversely affected their short-term trading future.

That, I think, was the justification.... but, at the time, I didn't agree with the payment, and I am still not sure I do.

As for United, I wasn't aware that they had been paid. Have they?


Rangers fans paid Dunfermline, SFA paid Dundee United.

[Leithenhibby]

In Dunfermline's case, I think the justification was that, had RFC not paid up, the SPL could have taken action against them such as fines, docking points and the like. In other words, not to pay up might have adversely affected their short-term trading future.

That, I think, was the justification.... but, at the time, I didn't agree with the payment, and I am still not sure I do.

As for United, I wasn't aware that they had been paid. Have they?

As far as I know they have.

Hearts may be in that position later :pray:, just like the DAFC case ... No?

[Leithenhibby]

Rangers fans paid Dunfermline, SFA paid Dundee United.


Was the money not due to the Huns tho? And why would the SFA clear a club debt :confused:

[CentreLine]

Was the money not due to the Huns tho? And why would the SFA clear a club debt :confused:

Its in the :rules: SFA can deduct monies owed to other clubs before paying out. So long as the other club makes the right case. Maybe hahahahearts will have a case and get theirs too, ironic though that may sound

[jgl07]

Was the money not due to the Huns tho? And why would the SFA clear a club debt :confused:

They deducted it from money due to Rangers from Scottish Cup commercial income. I am not sure if it was the full amount due or a contribution.

[Leithenhibby]

Its in the :rules: SFA can deduct monies owed to other clubs before paying out. So long as the other club makes the right case. Maybe hahahahearts will have a case and get theirs too, ironic though that may sound


They deducted it from money due to Rangers from Scottish Cup commercial income. I am not sure if it was the full amount due or a contribution.


So Mad Vlad & hahahearts may have a case..... :wink:

[Dan Sarf]

Rangers bidder Bill Ng denies agreeing a deal with Ticketus...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17739292


:faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers bidder Bill Ng denies agreeing a deal with Ticketus...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17739292


:faf:

Too late :wink:

[stokesmessiah]

Is there an exact date set aside for the decisions on the WTC and the BTC?

Wouldn't want to go on holiday and miss it - I don't the same influence over D&P as your good self....,


:wink:

Possibly the most asked question in this thread along with "are those ******** dead yet?" :greengrin

[Dan Sarf]

Too late :wink:

Never get tired of reading stuff like this.

[sadtom]

So it looks like a straight fight between 'the Blue Knights' and 'the Knights who say Ng.'

[CropleyWasGod]

So it looks like a straight fight between 'the Blue Knights' and 'the Knights who say Ng.'

The Blue Knights are out :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Kennedy says that this is very worrying for everybody.Not to me.

[sadtom]

The Blue Knights are out :greengrin

I heard it was just a flesh wound!

Also Brian Kennedy is out. They asked him "what is your favourite colour?"
He replied "Green...no blue...no orange...arghhhhhhhhhhhh!!"

[ancienthibby]

The Blue Knights are out :greengrin

The Blue Knights are on the sidelines according to themselves.

Apparently, they are waiting to see the colour of the Singaporean dollar!!:agree:

Can anyone help? If it's no blue, there's likely to be an allergic reaction!

Then, it seems Mr Bill Ng wants to encourage a swap programme for his Singaporean players with those of Singaporean HunsNewco!:wink:

How will the residents of 'the Big Hoose' cope with such humiliation!:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

The Blue Knights are on the sidelines according to themselves.

Apparently, they are waiting to see the colour of the Singaporean dollar!!:agree:

Can anyone help? If it's no blue, there's likely to be an allergic reaction!

Then, it seems Mr Bill Ng wants to encourage a swap programme for his Singaporean players with those of Singaporean HunsNewco!:wink:

How will the residents of 'the Big Hoose' cope with such humiliation!:cb

huMALAYation, Shirley?

:cb

oh, and here is the colour....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_dollar

This'll no please the Huns.... on the $1 note, there is this:- "A stylized Singapore lion symbol flanked by two stalks of paddy."

[ancienthibby]

huMALAYation, Shirley?

:cb

oh, and here is the colour....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_dollar

This'll no please the Huns.... on the $1 note, there is this:- "A stylized Singapore lion symbol flanked by two stalks of paddy."

Visited that site before posting - there's nae sign of Hun Blue - only same vapid dis-colouration!:agree:

[ancienthibby]

Check the opening statement of this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17735989

Now, there's hope for Craikie White - he's got a defamation case opportunity against J Lamont!!:aok:

[Jack]

Rangers bidder Bill Ng denies agreeing a deal with Ticketus...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17739292


:faf:

Bill Ng will be a Big Nil before long :-D

[CropleyWasGod]

Check the opening statement of this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17735989

Now, there's hope for Craikie White - he's got a defamation case opportunity against J Lamont!!:aok:

That's pretty pathetic.

Apart from the childishness of it all, it is also inaccurate. Craigie hasn't been cheating on his taxes (unlike, allegedly, his predecessor)... he just hasn't been paying them. Big difference.

Silly. :rolleyes:

[ancienthibby]

Beeb Radio reporting that the Collyer Bristow team, formerly attached to Craikie White, have been hit by Duff and Duffer with a £25 million action!

It Just gets better and better.

The lawyers are just loving this!

Listen to 810 MW!

[Leithenhibby]

Beeb Radio reporting that the Collyer Bristow team, formerly attached to Craikie White, have been hit by Duff and Duffer with a £25 million action!

It Just gets better and better.

The lawyers are just loving this!

Listen to 810 MW!


I'm no sure how long ma side will hold out...... :faf: it's 20 mins on, 20 mins off :greengrin

[PaulSmith]

Beeb Radio reporting that the Collyer Bristow team, formerly attached to Craikie White, have been hit by Duff and Duffer with a £25 million action!

It Just gets better and better.

The lawyers are just loving this!

Listen to 810 MW!

That'll be the same Collyer Bristow who are already involved in a £50m law suit that could see them collapse.

That's due to resume at High Court in May, if they lose likely to appeal and it'll drag on again as CB are counter suing someone else.
In essence D&P are wasting their time unless they think keeping Rangers in admin for over 12 months is viable

[ancienthibby]

Here's a wee bit more:

Rangers owner Craig Whyte's lawyers face damages claimhttp://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57774000/jpg/_57774072_chrismc.jpgBy Chris McLaughlinSenior Football Reporter, BBC Scotland
The legal firm appointed by Craig Whyte to conduct his takeover of Rangers last May is facing damages claims of £25m from the club's administrators.
Duff & Phelps is claiming the cash from legal firm Collyer Bristow over its role in Rangers' administration.
Additional claims relate to Collyer Bristow's involvement in Whyte's takeover deal and its structure.
But the firm has branded the claims "highly speculative" and has pledged to "vigorously defend" them.
More to follow...

[Bishop Hibee]

Good to hear John Yorkston the Pars Chairman basically say he would not support a newco getting straight back into the SPL.

[greenginger]

Here's a wee bit more:

Rangers owner Craig Whyte's lawyers face damages claim

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57774000/jpg/_57774072_chrismc.jpgBy Chris McLaughlinSenior Football Reporter, BBC Scotland
The legal firm appointed by Craig Whyte to conduct his takeover of Rangers last May is facing damages claims of £25m from the club's administrators.
Duff & Phelps is claiming the cash from legal firm Collyer Bristow over its role in Rangers' administration.
Additional claims relate to Collyer Bristow's involvement in Whyte's takeover deal and its structure.
But the firm has branded the claims "highly speculative" and has pledged to "vigorously defend" them.
More to follow...

I thought Duff and Phelps were involved in Craigy boys takeover as well ? Perhaps they should suing themselves as well. :greengrin

[jgl07]

Beeb Radio reporting that the Collyer Bristow team, formerly attached to Craikie White, have been hit by Duff and Duffer with a £25 million action!

It Just gets better and better.

The lawyers are just loving this!


Presumably not including Collyer Bristow?