Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Kavinho]

There's also my west stand season ticket. Not forgetting the east stand stone that I recently bought. Or my Hibs TV subscription. My Hibs Lotto subscription might even come up one of these times, although I'm not expecting any return from my HSL payments.

I've never challenged the fact you're genuine hence my continuing incredulity at your stance. You choose to accept one part of LNS judgement, the £250k ( unpaid ) fine, but not his statement that The Rangers are the same club! You can't really rely on part of his report to support your argument but ignore the major part that doesn't! About 3 pages ( seems like a week ago ) back I said I agreed your points 1 & 2, that was a typo, I meant 2 & 3, ie Sevco must pay the fine now & a proper system of governance must be established. I worked in financial governance for many years & our starting point was almost always a look back at prior failures. That's why the same thing should happen with this sorry saga including a review of the cover-up which was the LNS report. It's not just punishment for The Rangers that I want, I think it's essential that the roles played by people such as Campbell Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster et al be exposed to proper scrutiny & censure/action if appropriate.
PS, The £250k fine was imposed on The Rangers by LNS for failing to declare side letters to what was at that time deemed to be a legal tax avoidance scheme. ( or rather Oldco were deemed to have been in compliance with the rules of such a scheme, which they clearly were not - the loans were never intended to be repaid ). In light of the current status of EBT's would you accept that punishment for The Rangers could & should have been greater? Mind you, as they continue not to pay the £250k, & how do they get away with that?, it probably doesn't matter. As I said earlier true Armageddon occurs when the rule of law breaks down & that's been pretty much the attitude of The Rangers for the last 3 years.


Some excellent points Brog...
Cherry picking from the LNS ruling being the stand out, and that that (unpaid) punishment should (for me) be upgraded if the current EBT decision (superceeding LNS) is upheld following the appeal being heard.

But I far more want to see the likes of Sandy Bryson, who limited the scope of the LNS enquiry and those above him who directed that, being publicly questioned as to why they felt it the right thing to do..

In my view, and with the information currently out in the open, I can't see how is tenable to proceed with the same people in charge..

Can i liken it to Marlin fishing, and the whoppers just been hooked, and so far theres been a little bit of wrestling with the fish on the line.. who's twisting and turning to get away

Do you say 'that's enough now, I caught the fish', or do you keep at it til you can lift it into the boat? If you cut the line now, that opportunity to land the whopper is gone forever

the current processes have to be seen through. We're no where near a stage where we can put this all in the past.



.....And that's nothing to do with Rangers now!!!

[JeMeSouviens]

What are the biggest signs of improvement that you are seeing?

The gap between the remaining OF club and the leading non-OF clubs is smaller than it's been for 20+years. Unless/until this gap gets small enough that a club like ours has some small hope, albeit a tiny one, of bridging it over the course of some cup ties or a league season, then we don't really have a professional game worth the candle.

[Kavinho]

I agree with that. As is known I have absolutely no time for the Phil McGobbledygooks of this world and the other Sellik minded bigots who are trying to sell me their agenda but as a whole I would suggest Scottish football needs rigourous financial controls put in place far more than it needs more thashing of the Rangers panto.

I'd suggest the following could be a start.
1) Each club should aim to break even every year. Clubs which continually post losses year on year without address to point 2 shall be called before the SFA/SPFL where points deductions may apply the next season.

2) Existing bank debts and loansheld by clubs should be actively paid down and progress should be seen year on year in this area. Failure to address points 1 and 2 shall result in automatic relegation.

3) Clubs which do not submit audited accounts and are also in breach or points 1 and 2 shall be automatically relegated to the bottom tier.

These are great theoretically, but Id say impractical and difficult to implement.
A club stretches itself under pressure to stay competitive, avoid relegation or whatever, and the sanction youatsuggesting is to cut out further income and potentially force insolvency due to a demotion to Tier4.

Not saying strict sanctions shouldn't be in place, but the clubs all have to sign in for it in the first place!

Not to mention as has been pointed out on many occasions, ( and probably again soon! ) it is acceptable practice for a business to run at a loss for a number of years. We've done it ourselves now for a bit in our efforts to cope with the drop in income

[Ozyhibby]

Hibs 0666 is arguing for something that cannot actually be stopped even if we wanted it to. There are multiple court cases ongoing which will bring more revelations (he wrong in asserting that we already know everything) that will fuel this fire. The only way this can be stopped is with a full a and transparent investigation into the corruption of our game.
We can't move on until it's done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

These are great theoretically, but Id say impractical and difficult to implement.
A club stretches itself under pressure to stay competitive, avoid relegation or whatever, and the sanction youatsuggesting is to cut out further income and potentially force insolvency due to a demotion to Tier4.

Not saying strict sanctions shouldn't be in place, but the clubs all have to sign in for it in the first place!

Not to mention as has been pointed out on many occasions, ( and probably again soon! ) it is acceptable practice for a business to run at a loss for a number of years. We've done it ourselves now for a bit in our efforts to cope with the drop in income

Borrowing is not income.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FranckSuzy]

There's also my west stand season ticket. Not forgetting the east stand stone that I recently bought. Or my Hibs TV subscription. My Hibs Lotto subscription might even come up one of these times, although I'm not expecting any return from my HSL payments.

I've never challenged the fact you're genuine hence my continuing incredulity at your stance. You choose to accept one part of LNS judgement, the £250k ( unpaid ) fine, but not his statement that The Rangers are the same club! You can't really rely on part of his report to support your argument but ignore the major part that doesn't! About 3 pages ( seems like a week ago ) back I said I agreed your points 1 & 2, that was a typo, I meant 2 & 3, ie Sevco must pay the fine now & a proper system of governance must be established. I worked in financial governance for many years & our starting point was almost always a look back at prior failures. That's why the same thing should happen with this sorry saga including a review of the cover-up which was the LNS report. It's not just punishment for The Rangers that I want, I think it's essential that the roles played by people such as Campbell Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster et al be exposed to proper scrutiny & censure/action if appropriate.
PS, The £250k fine was imposed on The Rangers by LNS for failing to declare side letters to what was at that time deemed to be a legal tax avoidance scheme. ( or rather Oldco were deemed to have been in compliance with the rules of such a scheme, which they clearly were not - the loans were never intended to be repaid ). In light of the current status of EBT's would you accept that punishment for The Rangers could & should have been greater? Mind you, as they continue not to pay the £250k, & how do they get away with that?, it probably doesn't matter. As I said earlier true Armageddon occurs when the rule of law breaks down & that's been pretty much the attitude of The Rangers for the last 3 years.

And LL :aok:

[jgl07]

Borrowing is not income.



Apparently is if you are borrowing from an EBT?

[Kavinho]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4515304]Borrowing is not income.



Yes thank you. I'm aware. ..


An enforced drop to the4th tier would result in less income, requiring more borrowing, and potentially on to an insolvency event, unless a club drastically cuts is expenses, thereby seriously restricting its ability to get back up...
all if we are working to the proposed rules I was replying to originally

[Bostonhibby]

There's also my west stand season ticket. Not forgetting the east stand stone that I recently bought. Or my Hibs TV subscription. My Hibs Lotto subscription might even come up one of these times, although I'm not expecting any return from my HSL payments.

I've never challenged the fact you're genuine hence my continuing incredulity at your stance. You choose to accept one part of LNS judgement, the £250k ( unpaid ) fine, but not his statement that The Rangers are the same club! You can't really rely on part of his report to support your argument but ignore the major part that doesn't! About 3 pages ( seems like a week ago ) back I said I agreed your points 1 & 2, that was a typo, I meant 2 & 3, ie Sevco must pay the fine now & a proper system of governance must be established. I worked in financial governance for many years & our starting point was almost always a look back at prior failures. That's why the same thing should happen with this sorry saga including a review of the cover-up which was the LNS report. It's not just punishment for The Rangers that I want, I think it's essential that the roles played by people such as Campbell Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster et al be exposed to proper scrutiny & censure/action if appropriate.
PS, The £250k fine was imposed on The Rangers by LNS for failing to declare side letters to what was at that time deemed to be a legal tax avoidance scheme. ( or rather Oldco were deemed to have been in compliance with the rules of such a scheme, which they clearly were not - the loans were never intended to be repaid ). In light of the current status of EBT's would you accept that punishment for The Rangers could & should have been greater? Mind you, as they continue not to pay the £250k, & how do they get away with that?, it probably doesn't matter. As I said earlier true Armageddon occurs when the rule of law breaks down & that's been pretty much the attitude of The Rangers for the last 3 years.

:agree: All of this, and something that is tangible to the average hun has to happen to reinforce that they are indeed a new club permanently whatever workarounds have been created to assuage them.

I also think that if we are serious about the sporting integrity statements we should be seeing steps taken to take away that which has been gained by cheating, its happening elsewhere in sport, so why not here?

Entering void against the record of teams who cheated, gained an illegal advantage, whatever you want to call it, is what I'd like to see.

[AndyM_1875]

These are great theoretically, but Id say impractical and difficult to implement.
A club stretches itself under pressure to stay competitive, avoid relegation or whatever, and the sanction youatsuggesting is to cut out further income and potentially force insolvency due to a demotion to Tier4.

Not saying strict sanctions shouldn't be in place, but the clubs all have to sign in for it in the first place!

Not to mention as has been pointed out on many occasions, ( and probably again soon! ) it is acceptable practice for a business to run at a loss for a number of years. We've done it ourselves now for a bit in our efforts to cope with the drop in income

Accept what you are saying but I am wanting to force clubs going forward to live within their means. That for me is more important than raking over the now stone cold coals of Rangers meltdown.

Running at a loss is one thing but Hibs are paying down their debt therefore we wouldn't be affected by new possible rules on scrutiny. Our finances are solid.

What I'm proposing is a validation check on the financial affairs of member clubs so that we do not revisit the last 10 years where we have had arguably the biggest club in the land go bust, and two larger clubs go bust in Hearts and Dundee along with clubs such as Livingston and Gretna buying their way to cup finals and promotions before going bust.

I really don't think it's unfair that a member club which runs up year on year losses and debt increases and then fails to submit audited accounts should be viewed as unfit to play in the top flight and summarily relegated. Whether that is to the league below or to the 4th tier should be a matter for the League but surely if we are to learn one thing from the catastrophes at Tynecastle and Ibrox it is this.

[JeMeSouviens]

Accept what you are saying but I am wanting to force clubs going forward to live within their means. That for me is more important than raking over the now stone cold coals of Rangers meltdown.

Running at a loss is one thing but Hibs are paying down their debt therefore we wouldn't be affected by new possible rules on scrutiny. Our finances are solid.

What I'm proposing is a validation check on the financial affairs of member clubs so that we do not revisit the last 10 years where we have had arguably the biggest club in the land go bust, and two larger clubs go bust in Hearts and Dundee along with clubs such as Livingston and Gretna buying their way to cup finals and promitions before going bust.

I really don't think it's unfair that a member club which runs up year on year losses and debt increases and then fails to submit audited accounts should be viewed as unfit to play in the top flight and summarily relegated. Whether that is to the league below or to the 4th tier should be a matter for the League but surely if we are to learn one thing from the catastrophes at Tynecastle and Ibrox it is this.

This would be great but if you follow the SFA/hibs0666 model, you could only take action against clubs that you weren't desperate to keep around for short term commercial reasons. So you could punish Gretna but not the new Rangers.

There's no point overhauling the rules until we have football authorities that recognise the value of applying them.

[Kavinho]

Accept what you are saying but I am wanting to force clubs going forward to live within their means. That for me is more important than raking over the now stone cold coals of Rangers meltdown.

Running at a loss is one thing but Hibs are paying down their debt therefore we wouldn't be affected by new possible rules on scrutiny. Our finances are solid.

What I'm proposing is a validation check on the financial affairs of member clubs so that we do not revisit the last 10 years where we have had arguably the biggest club in the land go bust, and two larger clubs go bust in Hearts and Dundee along with clubs such as Livingston and Gretna buying their way to cup finals and promitions before going bust.

I really don't think it's unfair that a member club which runs up year on year losses and debt increases and then fails to submit audited accounts should be viewed as unfit to play in the top flight and summarily relegated. Whether that is to the league below or to the 4th tier should be a matter for the League but surely if we are to learn one thing from the catastrophes at Tynecastle and Ibrox it is this.



Completely agree on the principal, just remember all clubs have to agree to adopt it. I think it a little impractical on the first draft! The scenario above re us is just one example. We are choosing to spend more than we possibly should just now.

Any club relegated from any league would have a similar dilemma. If you penalise for over spending compared to income, you would be effectively saying cut your cloth as soon as you get relegated, and that would have the potential to segregate the leagues further..

potential mind..! In principal I agree on tighter more stringent financial oversight, with sanctions for breaches.

[AndyM_1875]

This would be great but if you follow the SFA/hibs0666 model, you could only take action against clubs that you weren't desperate to keep around for short term commercial reasons. So you could punish Gretna but not the new Rangers.

There's no point overhauling the rules until we have football authorities that recognise the value of applying them.

Without fear or favour. Reputations aren't worth spit. That's one thing we need to have learned from Rangers debacle.

Hypothetically if Celtc failed to produce annual audited accounts to the League body then they should be relegated as far as I'm concerned. But they won't because they will always produce accounts (plc) and Peter Lawell runs that club well.

Same with the Brown family at St Johnstone and the people running Inverness. These two are model clubs.

[Deansy]

For me Scottish Football will move on once the SFA charge the Hun with CHEATING, find them guilty of CHEATING and punish them for CHEATING. No mealy-mouth, half-way statments like they maybe 'attempted to secure advantages that other teams couldn't get' or that they 'arranged the circumstances that were beneficial to them only' etc, etc. CHEATING is what they have done and CHEATING should be quite clearly stated in the paper-work !.

Finally, once the pertinent titles/trophies are voided, the Hun MUST apologise to the millions of Scottish Football Fans who spent their hard-earned money for a period of just over 10 years, going along to what they thought were COMPETITIVE football-matches when they were anything but !!

[Kavinho]

For me Scottish Football will move on once the SFA charge the Hun with CHEATING, find them guilty of CHEATING and punish them for CHEATING. No mealy-mouth, half-way statments like they maybe 'attempted to secure advantages that other teams couldn't get' or that they 'arranged the circumstances that were beneficial to them only' etc, etc. CHEATING is what they have done and CHEATING should be quite clearly stated in the paper-work !.

Finally, once the pertinent titles/trophies are voided, the Hun MUST apologise to the millions of Scottish Football Fans who spent their hard-earned money for a period of just over 10 years, going along to what they thought were COMPETITIVE football-matches when they were anything but !!

The tax case blog made a good point that everyone of the rangers players on the pitch at easter road when they won the league (by a point) was paid through an EBT which they had the opportunity to disclose to HRMC 2 years earlier, but choose not to.

Very implausible to think they would have had that same team had they put their hands up earlier (if they ever have)

[Monts]

For me Scottish Football will move on once the SFA charge the Hun with CHEATING, find them guilty of CHEATING and punish them for CHEATING. No mealy-mouth, half-way statments like they maybe 'attempted to secure advantages that other teams couldn't get' or that they 'arranged the circumstances that were beneficial to them only' etc, etc. CHEATING is what they have done and CHEATING should be quite clearly stated in the paper-work !.

Finally, once the pertinent titles/trophies are voided, the Hun MUST apologise to the millions of Scottish Football Fans who spent their hard-earned money for a period of just over 10 years, going along to what they thought were COMPETITIVE football-matches when they were anything but !!

I don't really understand the argument that fans went to the football thinking it was competitive, and now we realise it wasn't.
The fans went to games, and saw competitive matches. By the time rangers had signed these players the cheating was done. We couldn't care less how they were getting paid after that. The actual matches were still competitive, and we took points off rangers in the EBT era. It's not like match fixing was taking place.
I do understand though that they were more likely to win as they bought better players and paid them illegally.

[lapsedhibee]

I don't really understand the argument that fans went to the football thinking it was competitive, and now we realise it wasn't.
The fans went to games, and saw competitive matches. By the time rangers had signed these players the cheating was done. We couldn't care less how they were getting paid after that. The actual matches were still competitive, and we took points off rangers in the EBT era. It's not like match fixing was taking place.
I do understand though that they were more likely to win as they bought better players and paid them illegally.

:agree: Wasn't match-fixing. More like tournament-fixing.

[Kato]

I don't really understand the argument that fans went to the football thinking it was competitive, and now we realise it wasn't.
The fans went to games, and saw competitive matches. By the time rangers had signed these players the cheating was done. We couldn't care less how they were getting paid after that. The actual matches were still competitive, and we took points off rangers in the EBT era. It's not like match fixing was taking place.
I do understand though that they were more likely to win as they bought better players and paid them illegally.

Hibs, Celtic et al entered games thinking that all clubs were sticking to the rules and regulations of the game as laid down by the SFA. Subsequently it turned out rules were being broken.

[Monts]

Hibs, Celtic et al entered games thinking that all clubs were sticking to the rules and regulations of the game as laid down by the SFA. Subsequently it turned out rules were being broken.
Yes but the consequence of that rule break (the good players) was there for Hibs, Celtic et al to see before a ball was kicked. The fans still saw a competitive game of football.

[Kato]

Yes but the consequence of that rule break (the good players) was there for Hibs, Celtic et al to see before a ball was kicked. The fans still saw a competitive game of football.

...but clubs might have won more games against Rangers if the rule break didn't give them an edge. They competitive games of football but Rangers gave themselves more chance of winning by giving players dodgy payments i.e. cheating.

Maybe if Rangers had spelled Lorenzo Amoruso's name wrong on his forms they would have been chucked out of competitions/cups but slipping him an extra £5M tax free is cool.

[CentreLine]

I don't really understand the argument that fans went to the football thinking it was competitive, and now we realise it wasn't.
The fans went to games, and saw competitive matches. By the time rangers had signed these players the cheating was done. We couldn't care less how they were getting paid after that. The actual matches were still competitive, and we took points off rangers in the EBT era. It's not like match fixing was taking place.
I do understand though that they were more likely to win as they bought better players and paid them illegally.

I suppose the point is that supporters have been frustrated all these years suspecting that cheating was going on but knowing it went too deep to challenge. The Internet and social media changed all that to some extent. Then along comes the open goal we have been presented with by the house of cards wobbling through collapse of one part of the duopoly and exposure of their crutch that is the combined football authorities.

In the past the SFA might have garnered support from UEFA but they have their own room of skeletons to deal with. So let's see what the various court cases reveal and let's hope we end up with a sport that's free from corrupt practices.

In a perfect world I would like to have seen the Rangers situation reach its inevitable conclusion with everyone acknowledging that their kind of cheating led to their extinction. Then a new club be formed and permitted to enter the league, within the rules, so that they could work their way back up through the leagues and inevitably fill a slot formally occupied by rangers. The same people would have followed them and had a great adventure getting their new team to the top end of the Scottish game. But in the background Rangers FC would be there for all time alongside clubs like Third Lanark, Airdrionians and Gretna as a warning in history of the folly that can befall clubs who overextend.

IMHO that scenario would have worked just fine for all concerned up to and including the Rangers supporters. And I believe Scottish football would have gone from strength to strength as a result. Sadly it seems that the people who govern our game nor did it work for the self interested few who had ambitions to run the new Rangers. That was when we dug a huge hole and it is a mess that may never be resolved without the painful process we are now going through.

[AndyM_1875]

Hibs, Celtic et al entered games thinking that all clubs were sticking to the rules and regulations of the game as laid down by the SFA. Subsequently it turned out rules were being broken.

Celtc ran up a bank debt that went north of £30m, bear in mind they also had annual Champions League humiliation cash thrown at them in this era. They also experimented with EBTs and high earners of the club such as Sutton, Lawell, Riley, Lennon, Thomson admittedly on an individual basis, sought to minimize their own tax bills through investments in various tax avoidance schemes now being chased with the same vigour as EBTs are by HMRC.

Would not say they are a great example.

[Onion]

But you're not offering a way to achieve that. Simply putting our head in the sand and saying "well that was all a bit dodgy" then carrying on as before cannot be an option. The beaks have had nothing to say on this and if they say and do nothing then they must be made to do so

The problem the authorities have is that many of the core issues that they would rather kept swept under the carpet are being forensically analysed in the courts, so they are unable (probably for the first time in my lifetime) to simply ignore it. The triumvirate of (The) Rangers, Celtic and SFA are under pressure like never before, despite their media buddies defending the barricades as they have always done. IMO there's a genuine chance of change for the greater good coming out of this Sevco mess. Maybe this is what Reagan meant when he talked about Armageddon :greengrin

[southern hibby]

Yes but the consequence of that rule break (the good players) was there for Hibs, Celtic et al to see before a ball was kicked. The fans still saw a competitive game of football.

I can see your point. We did see competitive games as in 11 against 11.

If we put in the heavyweight champ of the world in a ring with the light featherweight champ there in my eyes would only be one outcome.
If you stick the heavyweight champ in over a year with another so many lightweight fighters then over the year there may be 1 or 2 upsets but the outcome is a certainty.
Each fight would be a contest but not a fair contest that's why boxing has a governing body to regulate the contests.

The Rangers were flexing bigger muscles( players) due to steriods(EBT's) and have been caught.

What we need is a governing body who will treat every club in the land with the same rules and regulations and implement them irrespective of who why where when they were. Broken and take action against ALL clubs breaking them.

GGTTH

[CentreLine]

The problem the authorities have is that many of the core issues that they would rather kept swept under the carpet are being forensically analysed in the courts, so they are unable (probably for the first time in my lifetime) to simply ignore it. The triumvirate of (The) Rangers, Celtic and SFA are under pressure like never before, despite their media buddies defending the barricades as they have always done. IMO there's a genuine chance of change for the greater good coming out of this Sevco mess. Maybe this is what Reagan meant when he talked about Armageddon :greengrin

👍 Agreed. And it is a significant point that Celtic are no angels in this. The duopoly of Rangers and Celtic was propped up by our football association for far too many years. If they are squeezed hard enough the pips will pop out and the game has a fighting chance of being played on a level playing field for the first time probably since the second war and certainly since the largest percentage of tv revenues and SPL/SPFL money was diverted towards only two clubs.

[steakbake]

 Agreed. And it is a significant point that Celtic are no angels in this. The duopoly of Rangers and Celtic was propped up by our football association for far too many years. If they are squeezed hard enough the pips will pop out and the game has a fighting chance of being played on a level playing field for the first time probably since the second war and certainly since the largest percentage of tv revenues and SPL/SPFL money was diverted towards only two clubs.

I think the caveat to this is that it does not seem unreasonable of course, for there to be two or three clubs in a country who tend to dominate proceedings. That could be due to population, the historical growth of the clubs or success that translates to power. If you look at most leagues in Europe, most countries have a couple of top teams. I'm perfectly prepared to accept that two teams with stadiums that can accommodate 50k people week in week out are likely to have more reach than those who have 20, 15, 10 or 5k fanbases.

Where this is a bang-on point is how the duopoly has then been advantaged by the SFA feathering their nests even further, through distribution of media rights, enhanced voting rights and so on.

The level playing field I want to see isn't so much ensuring that clubs that are big are reined back, but I certainly don't expect to see them treated as protected species and have the rule books and balance sheets altered to enhance their status even more at the expense of everyone else.

[jgl07]

I agree with that. As is known I have absolutely no time for the Phil McGobbledygooks of this world and the other Sellik minded bigots who are trying to sell me their agenda but as a whole I would suggest Scottish football needs rigourous financial controls put in place far more than it needs more thashing of the Rangers panto.

I'd suggest the following could be a start.
1) Each club should aim to break even every year. Clubs which continually post losses year on year without address to point 2 shall be called before the SFA/SPFL where points deductions may apply the next season.

2) Existing bank debts and loansheld by clubs should be actively paid down and progress should be seen year on year in this area. Failure to address points 1 and 2 shall result in automatic relegation.

3) Clubs which do not submit audited accounts and are also in breach or points 1 and 2 shall be automatically relegated to the bottom tier.
Simplistic tosh.

I would bet that points 1 and 2 could not be enforced as they would be in restraint of trade and any club so penalised could get it set aside.

UEFAs Financial Fair Play rules have been quietly watered down because of the threat of legal action. No team would be able to rebuild a stadium.

Apart from all else it would probably have put pretty well every major club in Scotland out of business by now. Hibs would have fell foul in the early 1990s and again around 2000. Celtic would have gone circa 1992, so would Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Dundee (two or three times), Partick Thistle, Livingston, aside from the real offenders (Rangers and Hearts).

How many people would pay to see a League consisting of St Johnstone, Inverness and, possibly Dundee United?

[AndyM_1875]

Simplistic tosh.

I would bet that points 1 and 2 could not be enforced as they would be in restraint of trade and any club so penalised could get it set aside.

UEFAs Financial Fair Play rules have been quietly watered down because of the threat of legal action. No team would be able to rebuild a stadium.

Apart from all else it would probably have put pretty well every major club in Scotland out of business by now. Hibs would have fell foul in the early 1990s and again around 2000. Celtic would have gone circa 1992, so would Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Dundee (two or three times), Partick Thistle, Livingston, aside from the real offenders (Rangers and Hearts).

How many people would pay to see a League consisting of St Johnstone, Inverness and, possibly Dundee United?

If St Johnstone, Inverness and Dundee United are the only clubs not breaking the Financial rules then so be it.
If my team is falling foul of the financial rules then they take their medicine and suck it up.

Lower league clubs like East Stirling, East Fife and Cowdenbeath work to break even. They have no big bank debts. If they are relegated then they budget at a lower level and play kids.
Why should bigger clubs be any different? The one thing on this thread is that fans have complained about teams living way beyond their means.
My suggestion isn't about the past, that's done but lessons need to be learned.

Still... if you have a better suggestion that offers a bit more sophistication than some zoomer in a Celtc shirt shouting 'Strip the Titles' then I'm all ears.

[Smartie]

Simplistic tosh.

I would bet that points 1 and 2 could not be enforced as they would be in restraint of trade and any club so penalised could get it set aside.

UEFAs Financial Fair Play rules have been quietly watered down because of the threat of legal action. No team would be able to rebuild a stadium.

Apart from all else it would probably have put pretty well every major club in Scotland out of business by now. Hibs would have fell foul in the early 1990s and again around 2000. Celtic would have gone circa 1992, so would Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Dundee (two or three times), Partick Thistle, Livingston, aside from the real offenders (Rangers and Hearts).

How many people would pay to see a League consisting of St Johnstone, Inverness and, possibly Dundee United?

I agree that on the face of it it seems a bit idealistic and not entirely realistic but I think it is a start in the right direction.

There is debt and then there is debt (it is unusual having this conversation with people who aren't jambos or huns). The finances of the world would collapse if everyone had to pay off their mortgages tomorrow. Clubs should be allowed to borrow as long as they are able to pay back and they should be heavily sanctioned if they can not/ will not.

We do need to get firm rules and sanctions in place to act as a deterrent for financial jiggery-pokery. 15 point penalties don't even scratch the surface for clubs that can cheat for a generation before being caught up with - clubs who cheat themselves, their own fans, other clubs and their fans, Scottish football in general, sponsors, European opposition etc etc.

I think the bare minimum is that any team who has to enter administration/ faces liquidation has to start at the bottom and tough 5hit if they never recover. That will focus clubs minds on living within their means. And if we were to fall foul of it then so be it.

One of the most shameful facts is that so many clubs have failed to learn from their experience and ended up in trouble shortly afterwards.

[Ozyhibby]

Fulham have made a move for warburton.


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[CropleyWasGod]

According to BBC, RFC have promised MW more cash for himself, and more cash for players, to try and ward off Fulham.

Clearly rattled.

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[SunshineOnLeith]

According to BBC, RFC have promised MW more cash for himself, and more cash for players, to try and ward off Fulham.

Clearly rattled.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

His agent has played a blinder here.

[Jim44]

Despite Warburton's distancing himself from the Fulham job, he remains strong favourite at 10/11. Advocaat is second fav. at 5/2 and the biggest mover is Seedorf drifting in from 14/1 to 8/1 today.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't help thinking that, if Fulham are serious, the compensation that they can pay will be very tempting to Rangers.

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[hibs0666]

His agent has played a blinder here.

If Fulham are pursuing this then I'm sure they will have received some encouragement.

[3pm]

Rangers offering salary increase and increased transfer kitty to keep him!

[Sergey]

Despite Warburton's distancing himself from the Fulham job, he remains strong favourite at 10/11. Advocaat is second fav. at 5/2 and the biggest mover is Seedorf drifting in from 14/1 to 8/1 today.

The interesting price in the market is Betfair who have him at 8/11. If that shortens with them over the next few hours, then he could well be offski.

Did he bring any back room or coaching staff with him to SEVCO?

[CraigHibee]

According to BBC, RFC have promised MW more cash for himself, and more cash for players, to try and ward off Fulham.

Clearly rattled.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

be interesting to see where the money comes from, more loans? fulham are a much bigger attraction than the huns but i think warburton will stay... for now

[CraigHibee]

The interesting price in the market is Betfair who have him at 8/11. If that shortens with them over the next few hours, then he could well be offski.

Did he bring any back room or coaching staff with him to SEVCO?

david weir, not sure who else

[JeMeSouviens]

david weir, not sure who else

Frank McParland?

[Sergey]

david weir, not sure who else


Frank McParland?

Interesting.

Normally when a manager leaves (or is appointed) they come/leave with their lackeys en masse. Seemingly Martin O'Neil had them by the coach load. We remember the numpties that TB brought to the Hibs.

If SEVCO do indeed lose their complete (or core) back room staff - that's really going to swing the pendulum in our favour.

If it ain't Fulham this week - it could well be any number of clubs next week*

*Disclaimer: Stubbs could also be tempted away to greater things, so the coin does have two sides.

[Jim44]

Conflicting news on FF. One post saying Daily Record reporting that a Fulham spokesman says they have no interest in Warburton whatsoever. Another (in last hour or so) BBC saying that Fulham have made an approach to Sevco and that Sevco have made an increased salary and transfer pot offer to Warburton to keep him. Probably all nonsense but it'll keep the natives restless and give them a taste of their own medicine. :faf:

[ekhibee]

I actually think if he did go, so would Tavernier and ****horn, although I'm not sure who's a loan deal and who's no, I think Ball might be one. Rangers are really ****ing it, their whole season could go right down the tubes if he jumps ship. I'm not convinced he will, but it would be extremely funny if he did.

[Jim44]

Apparently he's just tweeted that he is going nowhere and is angry at incorrect stories from media outlets. Party pooper. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Apparently he's just tweeted that he is going nowhere and is angry at incorrect stories from media outlets. Party pooper. :greengrin

That Twitter account doesn't have the wee tick that verifies it's warburton
There was also a tweet the other day from him saying he wants to win Rangers first trophy, I'd be surprised if that was really him.

[brog]

Apparently he's just tweeted that he is going nowhere and is angry at incorrect stories from media outlets. Party pooper. :greengrin

Just as long as he did it respectfully! :wink:

[jacomo]

If Fulham are pursuing this then I'm sure they will have received some encouragement.

I agree. I think Warburton is itching for a move.

He's just trying to find a face-saving way out of Rangers... and Rangers could do with a bit of cash in compensation.

[greenginger]

Apparently he's just tweeted that he is going nowhere and is angry at incorrect stories from media outlets. Party pooper. :greengrin


Does Warburton have previous at tweeting :confused:

Maybe not him.

[Ozyhibby]

Tweeted this and has a tick

Why are such stories are released without any sensible investigation? Rangers fans, Rangers as a club and indeed Fulham deserve better


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[ACLeith]

Tweeted this and has a tick

Why are such stories are released without any sensible investigation? Rangers fans, Rangers as a club and indeed Fulham deserve better


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I know they do, but one is stuck with MW and another seems to want him :greengrin

The Tweet, if real , doesn't actually deny anything.

[bingo70]

Tweeted this and has a tick

Why are such stories are released without any sensible investigation? Rangers fans, Rangers as a club and indeed Fulham deserve better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like he's not away then.

Would have been funny but I can't say I'm overly bothered, imp cracks are already starting to appear in his team.

On a side note, anyone else find it a bit cringey he's using Twitter? It's the same when I hear about Craig Levein using it, not sure why but just think it's a bit embarrassing for him

[Bostonhibby]

According to BBC, RFC have promised MW more cash for himself, and more cash for players, to try and ward off Fulham.

Clearly rattled.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Maybe they will make a couple of bids for Scott Allan to try and show him they mean business.

I want him to stay because he looks and sounds like one of them.

[Future17]

If Fulham are pursuing this then I'm sure they will have received some encouragement.

You could have said that about their previous three targets to replace Symons! :greengrin

I think Warburton would be mental to leave what is essentially a pretty cushy gig for the Fulham job. The English Championships is probably the hardest league in the world to be a manager.

[Jim44]

Sounds like he's not away then.

Would have been funny but I can't say I'm overly bothered, imp cracks are already starting to appear in his team.

On a side note, anyone else find it a bit cringey he's using Twitter? It's the same when I hear about Craig Levein using it, not sure why but just think it's a bit embarrassing for him

Yes, a bit of a false alarm but, what the heck, it upsets the arrogance and over-confidence of the Weegie nutters.:greengrin

[c31]

You could have said that about their previous three targets to replace Symons! :greengrin

I think Warburton would be mental to leave what is essentially a pretty cushy gig for the Fulham job. The English Championships is probably the hardest league in the world to be a manager.

London or Glasgow....I think the bright lights might just draw him down south....

[Bostonhibby]

You could have said that about their previous three targets to replace Symons! :greengrin

I think Warburton would be mental to leave what is essentially a pretty cushy gig for the Fulham job. The English Championships is probably the hardest league in the world to be a manager.

:agree: Being serious for a minute, the rangers job is probably the pinnacle of his career and he surely has to stay, if only to see who else they can get on the cheap from Wigan next transfer window.

[Winston Ingram]

You could have said that about their previous three targets to replace Symons! :greengrin

I think Warburton would be mental to leave what is essentially a pretty cushy gig for the Fulham job. The English Championships is probably the hardest league in the world to be a manager.

I'm no so sure.

Neil Lennon won a stack of trophies and qualified out a group stage of the CL including beating Barcelona. He was available for donkeys and only got Bolton.

Warburton will do well to win any major trophies and will get nowhere near the CL. To me, Fulham is the best he's likely to get.

[ancient hibee]

You could have said that about their previous three targets to replace Symons! :greengrin

I think Warburton would be mental to leave what is essentially a pretty cushy gig for the Fulham job. The English Championships is probably the hardest league in the world to be a manager.


He's already proved he can hack it in the Championship.

[SausageSurprise]

Interesting.


If SEVCO do indeed lose their complete (or core) back room staff - that's really going to swing the pendulum in our favour.
*Disclaimer: Stubbs could also be tempted away to greater things, so the coin does have two sides.

It will probably just leave the glorified bus driver who seems to be too good for holding up the subs board

[Jack]

Sounds like he's not away then.

Would have been funny but I can't say I'm overly bothered, imp cracks are already starting to appear in his team.

On a side note, anyone else find it a bit cringey he's using Twitter? It's the same when I hear about Craig Levein using it, not sure why but just think it's a bit embarrassing for him

Is a side note the same as a side letter but smaller?

If so you could find yourself in a little bit of bother ;-)

[gorgie greens]

Just glad the pondlife are getting some of their own medicine,they are always unsettling clubs by saying they are interested in their players whenever they are about to play them .
A month of turmoil please :greengrin

[Sergey]

VC pushed the price for Warby out to 4/1 straight off the back of his tweet. Once again they've shortened the price to a 4 in 10 chance (6/4)

There's clearly mileage in this rumour and he's obviously the player that the books are avoiding.

[Cropley10]

During the 9IAR years and after Rangers told us they were Simply The Best, that they were the World's Most Successful Club.

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.


There can be no EBT with any 'side-letter' that guarantees the tax free loan. If there is then tax is due. Game over. If there is a 'side-letter' that guarantees payment then this must be disclosed to the SFA. What a dilemma, you can't stay the right side of the tax scheme AND the game's governing body simultaneously...


But none of what has transpired would have been possible or achievable without the governing body of Scottish Football being complicit, aiding and abetting Rangers in different ways at different times and for different reasons to either; get into to Europe when they'd already agreed they owed HMRC for the Wee Tax Case (yet without access to European revenue they'd have gone bust earlier), continue with an EBT tax scheme that broke their own rules, or ultimately to be reborn, as Sevco.


So, for those that use words like 'bile' and 'spewing' and 'hatred' and 'blood-lust' I'd say this; they told us for years they were the People, that they were the Best, the World's Most Successful when, in fact, Murray and his placement at the SFA were cheating. Organised, explicit, wilful cheating.


Football is 11 v 11 on the day, on literally a level playing field - any attempts to rig the game, to allow one team to enjoy a specific advantage can never be allowed.


And, if you think we should somehow 'move on' without both cleansing the SFA and, more importantly, the proceeds of this organised, wilful deceit then you miss the point entirely.

[Ozyhibby]

Great post


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[Baldy Foghorn]

During the 9IAR years and after Rangers told us they were Simply The Best, that they were the World's Most Successful Club.

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.


There can be no EBT with any 'side-letter' that guarantees the tax free loan. If there is then tax is due. Game over. If there is a 'side-letter' that guarantees payment then this must be disclosed to the SFA. What a dilemma, you can't stay the right side of the tax scheme AND the game's governing body simultaneously...


But none of what has transpired would have been possible or achievable without the governing body of Scottish Football being complicit, aiding and abetting Rangers in different ways at different times and for different reasons to either; get into to Europe when they'd already agreed they owed HMRC for the Wee Tax Case (yet without access to European revenue they'd have gone bust earlier), continue with an EBT tax scheme that broke their own rules, or ultimately to be reborn, as Sevco.


So, for those that use words like 'bile' and 'spewing' and 'hatred' and 'blood-lust' I'd say this; they told us for years they were the People, that they were the Best, the World's Most Successful when, in fact, Murray and his placement at the SFA were cheating. Organised, explicit, wilful cheating.


Football is 11 v 11 on the day, on literally a level playing field - any attempts to rig the game, to allow one team to enjoy a specific advantage can never be allowed.


And, if you think we should somehow 'move on' without both cleansing the SFA and, more importantly, the proceeds of this organised, wilful deceit then you miss the point entirely.



:top marks SFA must be exposed in this shambles and the corridors rid of the incompetents who broke their own rules, to aid their mates

[Bostonhibby]

During the 9IAR years and after Rangers told us they were Simply The Best, that they were the World's Most Successful Club.

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.


There can be no EBT with any 'side-letter' that guarantees the tax free loan. If there is then tax is due. Game over. If there is a 'side-letter' that guarantees payment then this must be disclosed to the SFA. What a dilemma, you can't stay the right side of the tax scheme AND the game's governing body simultaneously...


But none of what has transpired would have been possible or achievable without the governing body of Scottish Football being complicit, aiding and abetting Rangers in different ways at different times and for different reasons to either; get into to Europe when they'd already agreed they owed HMRC for the Wee Tax Case (yet without access to European revenue they'd have gone bust earlier), continue with an EBT tax scheme that broke their own rules, or ultimately to be reborn, as Sevco.


So, for those that use words like 'bile' and 'spewing' and 'hatred' and 'blood-lust' I'd say this; they told us for years they were the People, that they were the Best, the World's Most Successful when, in fact, Murray and his placement at the SFA were cheating. Organised, explicit, wilful cheating.


Football is 11 v 11 on the day, on literally a level playing field - any attempts to rig the game, to allow one team to enjoy a specific advantage can never be allowed.


And, if you think we should somehow 'move on' without both cleansing the SFA and, more importantly, the proceeds of this organised, wilful deceit then you miss the point entirely.

Eureka :not worth one for any old / new rangers apologists or sympathisers in Scottish football to have a good think about before they plead for closure or a line to be drawn - the answers to who did what to help, when and why really are still needed then the punishment can be designed to fit the actual crime, not just what we are allowed to know about it to date.

[Jim44]

The baker has spoken and all is well in hunland. However Tom English has become the villain of the peace by casting doubt on the situation on Twitter :


That tadger English reckons he's lying.

Mark WarburtonVerified account
‏@MarkWarburton9
Both bemused and frustrated by shockingly incorrect stories from certain media outlets. I am going nowhere and no club has approached me

Tom English ‏@BBCTomEnglish 33m33 minutes ago
@DerekMillerTime @GordonWaddell @bbckennymac @MarkWarburton9 Curious

Derek Miller ‏@DerekMillerTime 31m31 minutes ago
@BBCTomEnglish About what exactly?

Tom English ‏@BBCTomEnglish 10m10 minutes ago
@DerekMillerTime Just curious. Given some of our information - odd

[Deansy]

During the 9IAR years and after Rangers told us they were Simply The Best, that they were the World's Most Successful Club.

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.


There can be no EBT with any 'side-letter' that guarantees the tax free loan. If there is then tax is due. Game over. If there is a 'side-letter' that guarantees payment then this must be disclosed to the SFA. What a dilemma, you can't stay the right side of the tax scheme AND the game's governing body simultaneously...


But none of what has transpired would have been possible or achievable without the governing body of Scottish Football being complicit, aiding and abetting Rangers in different ways at different times and for different reasons to either; get into to Europe when they'd already agreed they owed HMRC for the Wee Tax Case (yet without access to European revenue they'd have gone bust earlier), continue with an EBT tax scheme that broke their own rules, or ultimately to be reborn, as Sevco.


So, for those that use words like 'bile' and 'spewing' and 'hatred' and 'blood-lust' I'd say this; they told us for years they were the People, that they were the Best, the World's Most Successful when, in fact, Murray and his placement at the SFA were cheating. Organised, explicit, wilful cheating.


Football is 11 v 11 on the day, on literally a level playing field - any attempts to rig the game, to allow one team to enjoy a specific advantage can never be allowed.


Anwd, if you think we should somehow 'move on' without both cleansing the SFA and, more importantly, the proceeds of this organised, wilful deceit then you miss the point entirely.

100% spot-on !!. Ever since all of this 'Hun/EBT/Side-letter' con was revealed, the only thing the SFA/SMSM have done is to fight furiously to see that NOTHING changes and that the 'Status Quo' of the OF Duopoly is preserved at all costs and returned to as soon as possible - this must be avoided at all costs !!.

Our game is is in desparate need of purging and the opportunity is right now starting with the voiding of all/everything the Hun 'obtained' (not 'Won') during the time they were using EBT's. After that, the next step is the complete replacement of all in the SFA who have done nothing in this scandal except assist and prolong it - Reagan, Doncaster, Ogilvie for starters. If any of them are still in place when the dust starts to settle, then Scottish Football will have truly gained and learned SFA !!

[Future17]

London or Glasgow....I think the bright lights might just draw him down south....

I agree working and living in London is probably more attractive to him than staying in Glasgow. Apparently his family have stayed down south and will not be moving here any time soon, so that could obviously be a big factor in any decision he is asked to make.


I'm no so sure.

Neil Lennon won a stack of trophies and qualified out a group stage of the CL including beating Barcelona. He was available for donkeys and only got Bolton.

Warburton will do well to win any major trophies and will get nowhere near the CL. To me, Fulham is the best he's likely to get.

I don't think Warburton and Lennon are comparable, as Lennon had not worked in any non-playing positions in English football before and did not have the reputation at various levels that Warburton has. In fact, Lennon's reputation in England counted against him when it came to getting a top gig.

I'm not suggesting Warburton will be ever be offered anything better than the Fulham job; I just think it would be madness to walk away from a comparatively easy role for one which will be much harder and far less secure. In addition, financially, he probably wouldn't be offered that much more down there than he'll be offered to stay at Sevco.


He's already proved he can hack it in the Championship.

Has he? Don't get me wrong, I thought he did a great job with Brentford, but their chairman didn't which is why his contract wasn't extended. And therein lies the rub. The English Championship is a league of intense pressure and, often, unrealistic expectations. The Mecca of the Premiership and the nature of the playoff system creates a situation where a manager is only really 4 or 5 bad results away from the sack at any time.

By my count, only nine of the 24 teams in that league have had their current manager for more than one season. Specifically, Fulham are not a model of managerial stability and there is no indication that their owner would give a new manager significant cash to spend in January.

There also must be a reason why three other managers have already said no.

[GreenLake]

During the 9IAR years and after Rangers told us they were Simply The Best, that they were the World's Most Successful Club.

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.


There can be no EBT with any 'side-letter' that guarantees the tax free loan. If there is then tax is due. Game over. If there is a 'side-letter' that guarantees payment then this must be disclosed to the SFA. What a dilemma, you can't stay the right side of the tax scheme AND the game's governing body simultaneously...


But none of what has transpired would have been possible or achievable without the governing body of Scottish Football being complicit, aiding and abetting Rangers in different ways at different times and for different reasons to either; get into to Europe when they'd already agreed they owed HMRC for the Wee Tax Case (yet without access to European revenue they'd have gone bust earlier), continue with an EBT tax scheme that broke their own rules, or ultimately to be reborn, as Sevco.


So, for those that use words like 'bile' and 'spewing' and 'hatred' and 'blood-lust' I'd say this; they told us for years they were the People, that they were the Best, the World's Most Successful when, in fact, Murray and his placement at the SFA were cheating. Organised, explicit, wilful cheating.


Football is 11 v 11 on the day, on literally a level playing field - any attempts to rig the game, to allow one team to enjoy a specific advantage can never be allowed.


And, if you think we should somehow 'move on' without both cleansing the SFA and, more importantly, the proceeds of this organised, wilful deceit then you miss the point entirely.

Your post encapsulates not just what bothers me about The Rangers, but what bothers me about many things on this planet. Banksters, gangsters, puppet politicians, dictators and a whole line of horrible entities or individuals who cheat the possibilities of a decent and fair reality. They further their existence and domination using the threat of "Mutually Assured Destruction".

The instructions given to leaders elected to the SFA or SPFL should be - "No surrender" to cheats. Clean out and kick out but never, ever cop out.

[jacomo]

The baker has spoken and all is well in hunland. However Tom English has become the villain of the peace by casting doubt on the situation on Twitter :


That tadger English reckons he's lying.

Mark WarburtonVerified account
‏@MarkWarburton9
Both bemused and frustrated by shockingly incorrect stories from certain media outlets. I am going nowhere and no club has approached me

Tom English ‏@BBCTomEnglish 33m33 minutes ago
@DerekMillerTime @GordonWaddell @bbckennymac @MarkWarburton9 Curious

Derek Miller ‏@DerekMillerTime 31m31 minutes ago
@BBCTomEnglish About what exactly?

Tom English ‏@BBCTomEnglish 10m10 minutes ago
@DerekMillerTime Just curious. Given some of our information - odd

'No club has approached me' is modern day football speak for 'my agent is handling all negotiations on my behalf'.

[Jim44]

Stuart Gray has romped to second favourite. I hadn't noticed his name before.

[Jim44]

Maybe just a coincidence but the FF website discussion board is down. This often happens when there is abnormally high traffic. I wonder if something has been announced.

[brog]

Just musing but is there not a possibility that Warbs is thinking, " just WTF have I got myself into here?
I'm managing a team where the last 3 people in charge have been spivs or crooks & the current boss is a convicted criminal. They keep saying I'll get money but nothing ever happens. I can't go out in Glasgow because half the population call me an Orange b-----d & I don't understand a thing that the other half are saying. I went up to Aberdeen the other week to check out this battle site at Aboyne & there was nuffink there even though it's all our fans sing & talk about! Magic hat on & back darn sarf rapid for me I think! "
Seriously, the culture shock dealing with these demented people but must be horrific for a supposedly intelligent man.

[greenginger]

A darn sarf rag's take on it,


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/mark-warburton-flattered-by-fulham-links-but-wants-to-help-rangers-get-back-to-the-top-a3128956.html?

Maybe Warby just spun it a bit to get a wage rise and a war chest.

[Cropley10]

Respectfully, Warbs is an intelligent individual and must, surely, now realise that 1) King is proving to be a glib and shameless liar 2) they’re burning what little money they don’t have on lawyers, not players 3) the Three Bears are not, in the grand scheme of things, wealthy people, who certainly can’t afford to bankroll Rangers, being in to the tune of £10m already with a considerable amount in soft loans 4) they make a loss every month 5) the stadium is in poor shape 6) if/when they get promoted there’s no pot of gold available and they will struggle to compete 7) we’re heading into the worst of the weather and the third round of ties against the “diddy teams” 8) the squad is thin and injuries or approaches for Tavernier and/or Waghorn must be a worry…

Respectfully I hope he stays, but I’d be delighted if he heads back down to London. Happy Days

[number9dream]

A darn sarf rag's take on it,


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/mark-warburton-flattered-by-fulham-links-but-wants-to-help-rangers-get-back-to-the-top-a3128956.html?

Maybe Warby just spun it a bit to get a wage rise and a war chest.

Not sure it was a deliberate ploy but that's certainly how it could work out for him...
Fulham are a bit of a basket case - 7 managers in 3 years - and he knows he's at least 3rd choice.
From the strength of his tweet, I think he'll "respectfully" turn down the approach and we can all move on to the next act in the Rangers circus.
Managers being away from their families is hardly unusual. There are many examples, including our own staff and big Yogi.

[GreenLake]

Warburton is obviously going to appear uninterested to increase the deal he gets offered by Fulham.

He's gone and hopefully so will some of the players he brought in.

[Arch Stanton]

...........

Yet, what we now realise is Murray was not only addicted to debt but in order to gain an advantage over Celtic had to pay players an income that was free of tax. He tried two schemes, the first failed pretty quickly, the second, EBT scheme has taken longer to unravel.

............................



And yet all the talk in the media at the time was how to make the Old Firm more competitive in Europe - as if we were all rooting for Murray in his attempt to buy the European Cup.

[Cropley10]

And yet all the talk in the media at the time was how to make the Old Firm more competitive in Europe - as if we were all rooting for Murray in his attempt to buy the European Cup.

And of course this nonsense still continues. The Rangers will get back to the SPL and then get in to Europe. The advantage that the OF had in terms of income from large stadiums, well attended has gone. The money sloshing around football these days means that the advantage of being big, or bigger has now gone, much smaller clubs are more wealthy than they have ever been.

[Geo_1875]

Just musing but is there not a possibility that Warbs is thinking, " just WTF have I got myself into here?
I'm managing a team where the last 3 people in charge have been spivs or crooks & the current boss is a convicted criminal. They keep saying I'll get money but nothing ever happens. I can't go out in Glasgow because half the population call me an Orange b-----d & I don't understand a thing that the other half are saying. I went up to Aberdeen the other week to check out this battle site at Aboyne & there was nuffink there even though it's all our fans sing & talk about! Magic hat on & back darn sarf rapid for me I think! "
Seriously, the culture shock dealing with these demented people but must be horrific for a supposedly intelligent man.

And that's in the directors box.

[Jim44]

Just musing but is there not a possibility that Warbs is thinking, " just WTF have I got myself into here?
I'm managing a team where the last 3 people in charge have been spivs or crooks & the current boss is a convicted criminal. They keep saying I'll get money but nothing ever happens. I can't go out in Glasgow because half the population call me an Orange b-----d & I don't understand a thing that the other half are saying. I went up to Aberdeen the other week to check out this battle site at Aboyne & there was nuffink there even though it's all our fans sing & talk about! Magic hat on & back darn sarf rapid for me I think! "
Seriously, the culture shock dealing with these demented people but must be horrific for a supposedly intelligent man.

What did the good folks of Aboyne do to be associated with the muppets? Nothing there?............ Aboyne (Scots: Abyne, Scottish Gaelic: Abèidh) is a village on the edge of the Highlands in Aberdeenshire, Scotland, on the River Dee, approximately 30 miles (48 km) west of Aberdeen. It has a rugby club, which plays on The Green and also has a swimming pool, a golf course with 18 holes, all-weather tennis courts, and a bowling green. Aboyne Castle and the Loch of Aboyne are nearby.

Aboyne has many businesses, including a supermarket (Co-op),[6] two banks, several hairdressers, a butcher, a newsagent, an Indian restaurant and a post office. Originally, there was a railway station in the village, but it was closed on 18 June 1966. The station now contains some shops and the tunnel running under the village is now home to a firearms club. The market-day in Aboyne was known as Fèill Mhìcheil (Scottish Gaelic for "Michael's Fair").

I'm sure Warburton would find this charming village a great retreat from the circus he presently finds himself in.:greengrin

[Onion]

A darn sarf rag's take on it,


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/mark-warburton-flattered-by-fulham-links-but-wants-to-help-rangers-get-back-to-the-top-a3128956.html?

Maybe Warby just spun it a bit to get a wage rise and a war chest.

Typical response by any manager who wants to keep playing both ends. He's going to talk up his every important role at The Rangers, showing loyalty, ambition and making sure he doesn't upset the locals. Not a sweetie bag in sight !

At the same time, he hasn't said outright that he has no interest in the Fulham job - which he could easily do and put the whole thing to bed. Why not ? For 2 reasons, 1. he might actually be interested in what they have to say and 2. it keep The Rangers Board honest when it comes to him asking for more money.

He has to say he's not been approached by Fulham as they'd have to ask The Rangers Board for permission first.

[Bostonhibby]

What did the good folks of Aboyne do to be associated with the muppets? Nothing there?............ Aboyne (Scots: Abyne, Scottish Gaelic: Abèidh) is a village on the edge of the Highlands in Aberdeenshire, Scotland, on the River Dee, approximately 30 miles (48 km) west of Aberdeen. It has a rugby club, which plays on The Green and also has a swimming pool, a golf course with 18 holes, all-weather tennis courts, and a bowling green. Aboyne Castle and the Loch of Aboyne are nearby.

Aboyne has many businesses, including a supermarket (Co-op),[6] two banks, several hairdressers, a butcher, a newsagent, an Indian restaurant and a post office. Originally, there was a railway station in the village, but it was closed on 18 June 1966. The station now contains some shops and the tunnel running under the village is now home to a firearms club. The market-day in Aboyne was known as Fèill Mhìcheil (Scottish Gaelic for "Michael's Fair").

I'm sure Warburton would find this charming village a great retreat from the circus he presently finds himself in.:greengrin
Agree, most huns that I know haven't a Scooby about the actual history they are spouting about. Every good hun knows it's the battle of boinnng, not Aboyne.

[jacomo]

Typical response by any manager who wants to keep playing both ends. He's going to talk up his every important role at The Rangers, showing loyalty, ambition and making sure he doesn't upset the locals. Not a sweetie bag in sight !

At the same time, he hasn't said outright that he has no interest in the Fulham job - which he could easily do and put the whole thing to bed. Why not ? For 2 reasons, 1. he might actually be interested in what they have to say and 2. it keep The Rangers Board honest when it comes to him asking for more money.

He has to say he's not been approached by Fulham as they'd have to ask The Rangers Board for permission first.

He's not been approached by Fulham, because Fulham can negotiate via his agent.

Warburton just needs to submit a wish list of players that he knows will be rejected by Der Hun as too expensive - he can then ask to speak to Fulham because Sevco won't back him in the market. Job done.

[Dan Sarf]

A darn sarf rag's take on it,


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/mark-warburton-flattered-by-fulham-links-but-wants-to-help-rangers-get-back-to-the-top-a3128956.html?

Maybe Warby just spun it a bit to get a wage rise and a war chest.

From that article...

"Alan Curbishley is expected to take charge of Fulham at MK Dons tomorrow."

Game over?

[brog]

From that article...

"Alan Curbishley is expected to take charge of Fulham at MK Dons tomorrow."

Game over?



Curbishley's already there. If he was going to get the gig you would think it would already have happened.

[Jim44]

From that article...

"Alan Curbishley is expected to take charge of Fulham at MK Dons tomorrow."

Game over?



Curbishley 10/1 to 12/1 on Oddschecker.

[Jim44]

A darn sarf rag's take on it,


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/mark-warburton-flattered-by-fulham-links-but-wants-to-help-rangers-get-back-to-the-top-a3128956.html?

Maybe Warby just spun it a bit to get a wage rise and a war chest.


From that article...

"Alan Curbishley is expected to take charge of Fulham at MK Dons tomorrow."

Game over?



I can't see any link to Curbishley in that article.:confused:

[Dan Sarf]

I can't see any link to Curbishley in that article.:confused:

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/reading-boss-steve-clarke-explains-uturn-after-fulham-talks-a3119581.html

Sorry!

[Jim44]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/reading-boss-steve-clarke-explains-uturn-after-fulham-talks-a3119581.html

Sorry!

The article's two weeks old and I think Curbishley would have just been 'caretaking' which is being done by Peter Grant now.

[greenginger]

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/fulham/next-permanent-manager


Warby no longer bookies favourite ! Boooo !

[Dan Sarf]

The article's two weeks old and I think Curbishley would have just been 'caretaking' which is being done by Peter Grant now.


Sorry again.

[Jim44]

Sorry again.

Don't apologise, keeps our slender hopes of Warburton doing the dirty on them alive. :greengrin

[Jim44]

Stuart Gray now favourite. Fun while it lasted, tho'. The muppets can get a night's sleep tonight.:wink:

[Dan Sarf]

Don't apologise, keeps our slender hopes of Warburton doing the dirty on them alive. :greengrin


Sorry.

[StevieC]

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/fulham/next-permanent-manager


Warby no longer bookies favourite ! Boooo !

Depends which bookie you use.

[Jim44]

Depends which bookie you use.

Pedant! :greengrin

[steakbake]

Folks should be trolling him with #handitin

[s.a.m]

From the BBC:

Former Rangers administrators lose appeal over court case delayPosted at 17:54
TWO men accused of alleged fraud involving Rangers Football Club have failed to overturn a decision which allowed prosecutors more time to bring the case to court.
Lawyers acting for David Whitehouse, 50, and Paul Clark, 51, argued that Sheriff Sean Murphy acted incorrectly earlier this year.

The sheriff, who sits at Glasgow Sheriff Court, gave the Crown three extra months to bring allegations to court last September.
Appeal judges Lord Carloway, Lord Bracadale and Lord Malcolm refused the appeal and ruled the sheriff acted correctly.
Prosecutors allege that the two men, who worked for Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps, broke the law during their involvement with the Glasgow side.
They are accused along with former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, 44, and ex-chief executive Charles Green, 62, as well as former club officials David Grier, 50, and Gary Withey, 51.
The six men are expected to stand trial in the coming weeks.

[greenginger]

JohnJames take on the Warby to Fulham story.


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/


Playing for maximum compensation .

[Jim44]

JohnJames take on the Warby to Fulham story.


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/


Playing for maximum compensation .

I'd like him to be on the right tracks here but I suspect he is miles off the mark. Based on his comments over the past 48 hours and his refutal of the rumours on Reporting Scotland, I don't see Warburton going anywhere soon. If he is stringing folk along, he's giving an Oscar winning performance but if he makes a U turn and heads south, his chances of getting over the Kingston Bridge without getting strung up from it are negligible.

[Future17]

He's not been approached by Fulham, because Fulham can negotiate via his agent.

Warburton just needs to submit a wish list of players that he knows will be rejected by Der Hun as too expensive - he can then ask to speak to Fulham because Sevco won't back him in the market. Job done.

Why would he need to manufacture such a situation? Sevco are either prepared to let him leave or they're not. Him submitting an unrealistic player wishlist wouldn't change a thing.

[O'Rourke3]

I hope he gets the wage rise. Less dosh to spend on players

Sent via the bushes @ EM

[jacomo]

Why would he need to manufacture such a situation? Sevco are either prepared to let him leave or they're not. Him submitting an unrealistic player wishlist wouldn't change a thing.

If he wants out, he'll want to go with his head held high and a minimum of death threats from the hordes.

Likewise, it's possible that Rangers can be persuaded to release him in return for a tidy lump sum up front. But will have to dress it up as something else to avoid the hordes turning on them.

[WeeRussell]

Reading also looking for a new gaffer now...

[brog]

JohnJames take on the Warby to Fulham story.


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/


Playing for maximum compensation .

Gordon Parks, an ex footballer who's more clued up than most journos , has broken ranks & is reporting pretty much the same in today's DR. The column is headed " Warbs' non-denial denial's nonsense, he's open to offers!" Even Keith Jackson has a pop! The cracks are finally showing!

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/321d363b5fa5babc6c3878494781c38a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/12/04/real-madrid-kicked-out-of-copa-del-rey-for-fielding-ineligible-player/

How things work in less corrupt countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ballengeich]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/12/04/real-madrid-kicked-out-of-copa-del-rey-for-fielding-ineligible-player/

How things work in less corrupt countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't have to look abroad for a recent relevant case. In the Scottish Juniors East Region last season Dundee club Downfield won the North division 3. It was found that they hadn't correctly reinstated a former SPFL player and 15 points were deducted even though it was an innocent administrative mistake, with no attempt to deceive anyone. This cost them not only their title, but the promotion awarded for second place. Makes you think eh?

[Smartie]

You don't have to look abroad for a recent relevant case. In the Scottish Juniors East Region last season Dundee club Downfield won the North division 3. It was found that they hadn't correctly reinstated a former SPFL player and 15 points were deducted even though it was an innocent administrative mistake, with no attempt to deceive anyone. This cost them not only their title, but the promotion awarded for second place. Makes you think eh?

I love that. Strict rule, strict punishment even if it is an honest mistake.

Acts as a proper deterrent in case anyone thinks they can pull a fast one.

Although with no Real Madrid I guess that spells armageddon for the Copa Del Rey?

[ancient hibee]

I agree working and living in London is probably more attractive to him than staying in Glasgow. Apparently his family have stayed down south and will not be moving here any time soon, so that could obviously be a big factor in any decision he is asked to make.



I don't think Warburton and Lennon are comparable, as Lennon had not worked in any non-playing positions in English football before and did not have the reputation at various levels that Warburton has. In fact, Lennon's reputation in England counted against him when it came to getting a top gig.

I'm not suggesting Warburton will be ever be offered anything better than the Fulham job; I just think it would be madness to walk away from a comparatively easy role for one which will be much harder and far less secure. In addition, financially, he probably wouldn't be offered that much more down there than he'll be offered to stay at Sevco.



Has he? Don't get me wrong, I thought he did a great job with Brentford, but their chairman didn't which is why his contract wasn't extended. And therein lies the rub. The English Championship is a league of intense pressure and, often, unrealistic expectations. The Mecca of the Premiership and the nature of the playoff system creates a situation where a manager is only really 4 or 5 bad results away from the sack at any time.

By my count, only nine of the 24 teams in that league have had their current manager for more than one season. Specifically, Fulham are not a model of managerial stability and there is no indication that their owner would give a new manager significant cash to spend in January.

There also must be a reason why three other managers have already said no.

He and his chairman fell out because the chairman wanted player recruitment to take place like the "moneyball" system -that is based on statistics.Warburton didn't agree.His good reputation there is based on most football folk thinking he achieved miracles despite having a numpty for a chairman.

[greenginger]

Reading also looking for a new gaffer now...
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/reading/next-permanent-manager



Warby at 33/1 for Reading, :greengrin

Mind you, so is Stubbs !

[grunt]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/12/04/real-madrid-kicked-out-of-copa-del-rey-for-fielding-ineligible-player/

How things work in less corrupt countries.I quite like the irreverent take on things from this blog https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/distraught-scenes/

[jacomo]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/321d363b5fa5babc6c3878494781c38a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a fun snippet on a Friday afternoon.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think Ozy should follow this example :)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/655420861/rangers-case-reporting/description

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[Ozyhibby]

I think Ozy should follow this example :)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/655420861/rangers-case-reporting/description

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Haha, he's already passed his funding target.
I think when someone decides to crowd fund a judicial review of the SFA's role in this, they will collect enough money over a weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

Maybe its a premiership manager job Warby has been waiting on.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/swansea/next-permanent-manager


10/11 on favourite for the next Swansea manager and there's not even a vacancy. :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Possibly more legal action :)

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14125959._Easdale_block__shareholders_in_revolt_ov er_Rangers_AGM_voting_ban/?ref=twtrec

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[Ozyhibby]

What happened there ^?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/05/vote-rigging/


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[HoboHarry]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/05/vote-rigging/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Phil Mac is suggesting in his new blog that MA may move into competition with Parks in the transportation business. Mischief making by Phil Mac? Or a shot across the bows from MA but delivered by Phil?

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/emerging-into-the-sunlight-and-surveying-the-sevco-wreckage/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jim44]

Maybe its a premiership manager job Warby has been waiting on.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/swansea/next-permanent-manager


10/11 on favourite for the next Swansea manager and there's not even a vacancy. :confused:

This is getting silly now. But anything that upsets the muppets is fine with me........ :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Phil Mac is suggesting in his new blog that MA may move into competition with Parks in the transportation business. Mischief making by Phil Mac? Or a shot across the bows from MA but delivered by Phil?
Bus wars.

Now we're into Sopranos territory.

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[HoboHarry]

Bus wars.

Now we're into Sopranos territory.

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Could get serious with one (or more) of the buses getting torched in a garage. :greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

Bus wars.

Now we're into Sopranos territory.

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Is Ashley not friendly with Tony and Big Pussy from Greenock way?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is Ashley not friendly with Tony and Big Pussy from Greenock way?
Would you call either of the Easdales a big pussy???

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[lord bunberry]

Would you call either of the Easdales a big pussy???

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I think he just did :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

Phil Mac has a new blog....

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/an-foreseen-intervention-by-a-real-rangers-man/

[Ronniekirk]

Phil Mac has a new blog....

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/an-foreseen-intervention-by-a-real-rangers-man/

IT says a Fissure has appeared .Looks like the pressure is Piling up against the new Board .

[Killiehibbie]

Would you call either of the Easdales a big pussy???

Sent from my GT-I9505 using TapatalkIf I wanted to go swimming with the fishes I might.

[jacomo]

Maybe its a premiership manager job Warby has been waiting on.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/swansea/next-permanent-manager


10/11 on favourite for the next Swansea manager and there's not even a vacancy. :confused:

Wonder if there will be a managerial vacancy at Newcastle after today?

If Ashley wants to bring vengeance, that would certainly do it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Wonder if there will be a managerial vacancy at Newcastle after today?

If Ashley wants to bring vengeance, that would certainly do it.

Yup, can see that happening in the next few weeks. Guaranteed he'd take the Newcastle job, Ashley would pay him whatever he wanted just to spite Rangers :greengrin

[jgl07]

Wonder if there will be a managerial vacancy at Newcastle after today?

Got any more crap predictions?

[Col2]

Got any more crap predictions?

Harsh given it wasn't a prediction it was a question.

[jabis]

Wonder if there will be a managerial vacancy at Newcastle after today?

If Ashley wants to bring vengeance, that would certainly do it.

Give that man a brolly 😁

As soon as they get rid of w### as sponsors I'll start to support them again !

[silverhibee]

Warbs now being linked with the Swansea job.

:faf:

[Jim44]

Warbs now being linked with the Swansea job.

:faf:

Keep up silverhibee. That's old news. He was 10/11 favourite this morning but he's drifted out to 4/1.

[Malthibby]

The Herald have advised that The Rangers are going to buy the Accrington Stanley Two for £500,000. Shurely the beginning of King's 30 million
pouring through the blue door? For it must be true, naw?
The Meedja make me pig sick & I hope they pay some kind of price for their fawning PR job on behalf of them.

[magpie1892]

Got any more crap predictions?

Enjoyable as yesterday's game was, I can tell you that nothing has changed at NUFC and never will with Ashley at the helm.

Watch us lose four of the next six. Everything about McClaren screams that he's well out of his depth. The board is laughable.

What is pertinent to this thread in terms of this comment is - as it has been for some time now - that it is hugely personal between Mike Ashley and King and his cohorts. The latter are in severe trouble and it does not matter how much it costs MA (King is basically skint), he will have his way.

Get the popcorn.

[silverhibee]

Keep up silverhibee. That's old news. He was 10/11 favourite this morning but he's drifted out to 4/1.

It's hard Jim :greengrin just waiting for him to be linked with the Chelsea job. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Harsh given it wasn't a prediction it was a question.

:aok:

[AlbertK86]

Enjoyable as yesterday's game was, I can tell you that nothing has changed at NUFC and never will with Ashley at the helm. Watch us lose four of the next six. Everything about McClaren screams that he's well out of his depth. The board is laughable. What is pertinent to this thread in terms of this comment is that - as it has been for some time now - is that it is hugely personal between Mike Ashley and King and his cohorts. The latter are in severe trouble and it does not matter how much it costs MA (King is basically skint), he will have his way. Get the popcorn.

Sounds good to me .... Could be an epic 😜

[StevieC]

Enjoyable as yesterday's game was, I can tell you that nothing has changed at NUFC and never will with Ashley at the helm.

Very enjoyable, but totally unforeseen. Couldn't believe how flat it seemed pre-match. From Central Station to Gallowgate it barely seemed like there was a match on.

Careful what you wish for though, we could end up with another Freddy Shepherd!

[magpie1892]

Very enjoyable, but totally unforeseen. Couldn't believe how flat it seemed pre-match. From Central Station to Gallowgate it barely seemed like there was a match on.

Careful what you wish for though, we could end up with another Freddy Shepherd!

Rather Shepherd than Ashley. Ashley's made the club... not a club.

[jacomo]

Rather Shepherd than Ashley. Ashley's made the club... not a club.

Newcastle were close to bankruptcy under Shepherd. You could be in the same position as Leeds now.

I accept Ashley has made a lot of mistakes, but the fans have made things harder. The 'Pardew Out' campaign wasn't their finest hour.

[PatHead]

Stuart Gray appointed senior coach at Fulham whilst they still look for a new Head Coach.

Has he ever baked with the breadman before?

[Libby Hibby]

I think there is a lot of mileage in the Warbsy rumour to Fulham, they are obviously going for someone who is currently employed otherwise they wouldve appointed someone already.

Also the fact that THE Rangers or, with respect, Warbsy have not come out and categorically denied the speculation, speaks volumes

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35034739


Another vacancy for the baker to be linked to, Anybody able to get odds :greengrin

[Jim44]

I think there is a lot of mileage in the Warbsy rumour to Fulham, they are obviously going for someone who is currently employed otherwise they wouldve appointed someone already.

Also the fact that THE Rangers or, with respect, Warbsy have not come out and categorically denied the speculation, speaks volumes

Seriously? I thought the recent press conference where he repeated and repeated that he was not moving from Sevco was more or less a categorical denial of the speculation. It certainly fooled me.

[PatHead]

Yeovil are also looking for a new manager. Sure their strip would appeal to him.

[jacomo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35034739


Another vacancy for the baker to be linked to, Anybody able to get odds :greengrin

Sorry that Danny Lennon has lost his job. But Alloa have been strugglin'.

[jacomo]

Seriously? I thought the recent press conference where he repeated and repeated that he was not moving from Sevco was more or less a categorical denial of the speculation. It certainly fooled me.

Yes it did seem pretty definite, more so than previous comments where he was more cautious in his response.

Many Fulham just don't fancy him after all?

[doddsy]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

First time posting a link. click on to lodge your own message against SFA, LNS, Ogilvie, GASL, Sandy Bryson and the rest of the shameful yet shameless. doesn't cost anything.

[grunt]

JJ places his bets on the outcome of tomorrow's proceedings.

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/the-smart-money/

[CropleyWasGod]

JJ places his bets on the outcome of tomorrow's proceedings.

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/the-smart-money/

Interesting, and it would be nice if he's right. But let's not forget that JJ also told us that CG would win his case against the club.

[PatHead]

Interesting, and it would be nice if he's right. But let's not forget that JJ also told us that CG would win his case against the club.

I'm with you. Would love it but will wait to see what happens.

[Deansy]

http://www.ipetition.com/petition/justice-for-football-

First time posting a link. click on to lodge your own message against SFA, LNS, Ogilvie, GASL, Sandy Bryson and the rest of the shameful yet shameless. doesn't cost anything.

Sorry but link's coming up with -

'404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable'

??

[doddsy]

Sorry but link's coming up with -

'404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable'

??

Fixed it now, sorry about that.

doddsy

[Ozyhibby]

I think a fine and a slap on the wrists more likely but predicting these things is a mugs game. Whatever happens, let's hope it costs sevco money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

Interesting, and it would be nice if he's right. But let's not forget that JJ also told us that CG would win his case against the club.


"C2DE" What a snob.

[doddsy]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football
Sorry but link's coming up with -

'404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable'

??

fixed!

[Brunswickbill]

"C2DE" What a snob.

He writes like R2D2.

[doddsy]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

(http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football)
Hopefully thousands of Hibs fans will sign the petition. I have.

[Jim44]

Sorry but link's coming up with -

'404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable'

??

The link in the original post is still working for me. The link as it appears in your quote box does not work. The address is identical except for the hyphen at the end. This might be causing the problem

[jacomo]

"C2DE" What a snob.

Yes, that jarred with me too.

To write it once is pretty bad, but to repeat it throughout the article is ugly.

[Treadstone]

Interesting, and it would be nice if he's right. But let's not forget that JJ also told us that CG would win his case against the club.

He's not left as much wiggle room as he usually does. If wrong be prepared for "astonished" and "unbelievable". If right triumphantly pressing "post" on an article already written.
£400k for a single contempt of court case tells me he is batsh*t mental. Pure guesswork.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes, that jarred with me too.

To write it once is pretty bad, but to repeat it throughout the article is ugly.

He claims to be Rangers fan, so you would have to assume that he is a deeply unpleasant character anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

Interesting, and it would be nice if he's right. But let's not forget that JJ also told us that CG would win his case against the club.


Has there been any news of an appeal by Chuckie.

The judge who found in favour of Sevco was on the first tier tribunal that said EBT's were OK.

[doddsy]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4519155]He claims to be Rangers fan, so you would have to assume that he is a deeply unpleasant character

He may be but he doesn't half heap publicity on the wrongdoers at the SFA and others. I note Doncaster and Regan have both been on the deflection

trail today talking of change to the game.

The change I want is to see they two banished from anymore to do with Scottish Football.

doddsy.






(http://www.ipetetions.com/petition/justice-for-football)

[doddsy]

http://ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

Come on folks, almost 5000 genuine fans of the Scottish game have signed the Petition which calls upon the SFA to act.

It doesn't cost anything.

Lets hear from you fellow Hi bees who care about the integrity of the game.

Doddsy.

[Cropley10]

"C2DE" What a snob.

What demographic does the Record cover then?:confused:

[Cropley10]

I think a fine and a slap on the wrists more likely but predicting these things is a mugs game. Whatever happens, let's hope it costs sevco money.


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It is GUARANTEED to cost Sevco money. That's what so brilliant about it - the 3 Bears spending their grandkids inheritance on King's legal bills.

[doddsy]

It is GUARANTEED to cost Sevco money. That's what so brilliant about it - the 3 Bears spending their grandkids inheritance on King's legal bills.

I still find it very very hard to believe that Stewart Regan SFA, found the GASL 'Fit and Proper' to run The International Rangers Football Club' formerly

known as Sevco 5088, a man who was called a Glib And Shameless Liar in a South African Court. Especially given everything that had happened

previously, they the SFA then let in a man who is not only a GASL but a known Tax Cheat. W T F .

[Kato]

What demographic does the Record cover then?:confused:


Don't really care. There are "working class" people aplenty who know the DR is hogwash. Just find those terms, used repeatedly like that, hugely patronising.

[Bostonhibby]

What demographic does the Record cover then?:confused:

Zeroes :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

I still find it very very hard to believe that Stewart Regan SFA, found the GASL 'Fit and Proper' to run The International Rangers Football Club' formerly

known as Sevco 5088, a man who was called a Glib And Shameless Liar in a South African Court. Especially given everything that had happened

previously, they the SFA then let in a man who is not only a GASL but a known Tax Cheat. W T F .

He was also on the board of the old club when it went into admin.
He was a slam dunk for a refusal but the SFA found a way. That's why we can't move on, because one club is playing by different rules and the governing body is helping them.


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[PatHead]

He was also on the board of the old club when it went into admin.
He was a slam dunk for a refusal but the SFA found a way. That's why we can't move on, because one club is playing by different rules and the governing body is helping them.


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:top marks

[linlithgowhibbie]

Petition signed:thumbsup:

[1875godsgift]

http://ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

Come on folks, almost 5000 genuine fans of the Scottish game have signed the Petition which calls upon the SFA to act.

It doesn't cost anything.

Lets hear from you fellow Hi bees who care about the integrity of the game.

Doddsy.

Signed 🍗

[Dan Sarf]

Signed. :flag:

[doddsy]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4519209]He was also on the board of the old club when it went into admin.
He was a slam dunk for a refusal but the SFA found a way. That's why we can't move on, because one club is playing by different rules and the governing body is helping them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Exactly, another solid reason for not letting him near the 'Rangers International Football Clumpany' formerly and originally known as Sevco 5088.

[Gmack7]

done

[Ozyhibby]

http://linkis.com/www.podbean.com/medi/wgveD


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[doddsy]

Here's the thing I actually regret is that normally I would feel sympathy or empathy towards another football club who had the difficulties of Sevco 5088

and their supporters as I'm sure the vast majority of fans would. However, almost 'all' of the Sevco fans are arrogant and think of themselves as superior

and better than anyone else. This supercillious attitude has also been encouraged by a media led over the years by in particular the Daily Record and The

Sun. Until this changes most fans of other clubs must keep up the vocal protests for a level playing field and integrity.

[wee Stevie]

Done

[doddsy]

Signed. :flag:

Keep it going. Since the Hi bees started signing the number has increased a fair bit and it's not far from passing the 5000 mark.

Exellent.

[Bostonhibby]

Signed and circulated widely:thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

http://linkis.com/www.podbean.com/medi/wgveD


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I listened to this and other bits and pieces in the media, and yet not once do i hear about them cutting their cloth and living within their means.

It would mean not signing high profile players and managers, and not renewing current contracts and signing lesser players, but that seems to be one thing that's never on the table with these cheats.

I wonder why the media don't seem to ask this simple question?

[Jonnyboy]

Signed

[jabis]

Don't really care. There are "working class" people aplenty who know the DR is hogwash. Just find those terms, used repeatedly like that, hugely patronising.

Stopped buying it 2 months ago,liked reading it for the sports pages,but now just no🚽

[hibee_nation]

Signed

[Weststandwanab]

Signed

Signed

[Hibeesforever]

I listened to this and other bits and pieces in the media, and yet not once do i hear about them cutting their cloth and living within their means.

It would mean not signing high profile players and managers, and not renewing current contracts and signing lesser players, but that seems to be one thing that's never on the table with these cheats.

I wonder why the media don't seem to ask this simple question?

Absolutely agree, the cheating football finance model that results in administration still seems to be an acceptable course of action too.
Clubs should declare their player budget and stick to it for the whole season. Sporting integrity.

[Bostonhibby]

Roger Mitchell ex SPL Chief is stating he would not have passed King as Fit and Proper.http://www.eveningti...Roger_Mitchell/

The man who went for the Setanta deal I think, bit of an erky who likes the sound of his own voice - he had plenty opportunities to change things in his former role you'd think? - but he has to be right now and again:greengrin

[StevieT]

Now sitting at 4958 signatures.

[greenginger]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-chairman-dave-kings-court-6978261


King's day in Court put back 24 hours.

[Scott Allan Key]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

(http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football)
Hopefully thousands of Hibs fans will sign the petition. I have.

Signed and shared. Thanks for posting

[monktonharp]

Here's the thing I actually regret is that normally I would feel sympathy or empathy towards another football club who had the difficulties of Sevco 5088

and their supporters as I'm sure the vast majority of fans would. However, almost 'all' of the Sevco fans are arrogant and think of themselves as superior

and better than anyone else. This supercillious attitude has also been encouraged by a media led over the years by in particular the Daily Record and The

Sun. Until this changes most fans of other clubs must keep up the vocal protests for a level playing field and integrity.I would never feel syphothy, or emphathy or any of those type of words towards the club you mention, and a.n.other, who/which were in the same mould and also have a superiority complex which makes them think they did everything by the book.

[Bostonhibby]

I would never feel syphothy, or emphathy or any of those type of words towards the club you mention, and a.n.other, who/which were in the same mould and also have a superiority complex which makes them think they did everything by the book.

:agree: A plague upon them - cheats.

[monktonharp]

signed btw, and shared. Kerrydale will be awash in minutes:greengrin

[hibees 7062]

Signed

[Topographic Hibby]

signed btw, and shared. Kerrydale will be awash in minutes:greengrinIs it just me or did anyone else s****** when reading "Kerrydale" and "awash".......:greengrin

[hibernian36]

Signed

[monktonharp]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4519155]He claims to be Rangers fan, so you would have to assume that he is a deeply unpleasant character

He may be but he doesn't half heap publicity on the wrongdoers at the SFA and others. I note Doncaster and Regan have both been on the deflection

trail today talking of change to the game.

The change I want is to see they two banished from anymore to do with Scottish Football.

doddsy.






(http://www.ipetetions.com/petition/justice-for-football)I am astonished, nae, flabbergasted, that those 2 have retained their positions over the years throughout this whole sorry matter along with other less important, yet annoying decisions taken in the name of Scottish football. your point about deflecting actions, seems correct to me.they think that a new League cup format will sort everything out. Pair of trumpets.

[monktonharp]

Is it just me or did anyone else s****** when reading "Kerrydale" and "awash".......:greengringuid yin there mate:greengrin , in a naughty sort of way:wink:

[HappyAsHellas]

Signed

[Ronniekirk]

Signed :agree:

[esjorto]

Signed.

[CentreLine]

A brief mention in the record of the postponement of the contempt case today but otherwise not a peep from the SMSM in the significance of this case. Does this man need to shoot the queen (metaphorically speaking) before anyone takes notice.

[Jim44]

A brief mention in the record of the postponement of the contempt case today but otherwise not a peep from the SMSM in the significance of this case. Does this man need to shoot the queen (metaphorically speaking) before anyone takes notice.

Why has it been put back 24 hours? The link above just takes you to a DR apology.

[Juice-Terry]

Signed. :flag:

[magpie1892]

Newcastle were close to bankruptcy under Shepherd. You could be in the same position as Leeds now.

I accept Ashley has made a lot of mistakes, but the fans have made things harder. The 'Pardew Out' campaign wasn't their finest hour.

NUFC being where Leeds are now would be infinitely preferable to a very large section of the support, tens of thousands of whom have racked in their season tickets to be replaced by 'happy clappers'; were we in Leeds' shoes, at least I'd still have a club to support.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your 2nd sentence.

[Kojock]

Why has it been put back 24 hours? The link above just takes you to a DR apology.

Story appears to have been taken down and they are still running the story that King is in court today http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-under-6976342
Surely the DR wouldn't put up an erroneous report.

[Hibs07p]

Story appears to have been taken down and they are still running the story that King is in court today http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-under-6976342
Surely the DR wouldn't put up an erroneous report.

John James site reported it yesterday, just checked and it's been removed from there as well. :dunno:

Edit. Still on the JJ site but under the comments part of story.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/a-little-local-difficulty/#comments

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

Doleman has just tweeted that it has been deferred until tomorrow.

For clarification, the case is not against King personally, it's against RIFC.

[gorgie greens]

Signed

[Jim44]

Doleman has just tweeted that it has been deferred until tomorrow.

For clarification, the case is not against King personally, it's against RIFC.

Back to my original question. Why has it been deferred?

[CropleyWasGod]

Back to my original question. Why has it been deferred?

No idea. Possibly as simple as log-jam of cases.

[StevieC]

For clarification, the case is not against King personally, it's against RIFC.

What difference would this make in the big scheme of things?

My first thought is that it would be easier to find faut with RIFC, rather than King himself (as he could deny personal involvement?), and easier (if it goes MA's way) to withold money due to RIFC than chasing King for money?

[CropleyWasGod]

What difference would this make in the big scheme of things?

My first thought is that it would be easier to find faut with RIFC, rather than King himself (as he could deny personal involvement?), and easier (if it goes MA's way) to withold money due to RIFC than chasing King for money?

Not sure, TBH.

I was making the point, though, that people seem to be assuming that DK is for the jail if SD win the case. Not sure that would be the case. If the judgement is against RIFC, it's they who would be punished, not necessarily DK.

[Ozyhibby]

What difference would this make in the big scheme of things?

My first thought is that it would be easier to find faut with RIFC, rather than King himself (as he could deny personal involvement?), and easier (if it goes MA's way) to withold money due to RIFC than chasing King for money?

I would agree it's must be easier to find fault with Sevco rather than King specifically. Even now the Daily Record are still releasing new details of the deal. These can only have been leaked by Sevco or SD. It should be easy enough to convince the judge it was not SD.


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[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/89d8578263f372e44cbf1ba18c809211.jpg



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[southsider]

signed

[Brunswickbill]

No idea. Possibly as simple as log-jam of cases.

I wonder if there are last minute negotiations going on to settle.

[Michael]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/89d8578263f372e44cbf1ba18c809211.jpg



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Save me Justice Man(n)!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Save me Justice Man(n)!!!

It's actually Smith, the one above

Nice try, though :)

[NAE NOOKIE]

Signed

[magpie1892]

I wonder if there are last minute negotiations going on to settle.

Almost certainly not. Ashley wants him jailed and completely humiliated, even though this is costing MA a pretty penny in lawyers' fees.

[1875godsgift]

http://ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

Come on folks, almost 5000 genuine fans of the Scottish game have signed the Petition which calls upon the SFA to act.

It doesn't cost anything.

Lets hear from you fellow Hi bees who care about the integrity of the game.

Doddsy.

5046 now! 🔥

[Just Alf]

5046 now! 🔥
Guys remember to check your mail and confirm otherwise your vote's not added!

GGTTH

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[Dan Sarf]

Mike Ashley. A lovely man.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/09/how-sports-direct-effectively-pays-below-minimum-wage-pay

[jacomo]

Mike Ashley. A lovely man.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/09/how-sports-direct-effectively-pays-below-minimum-wage-pay


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CzHLTy33qWM

[Jim44]

Guys remember to check your mail and confirm otherwise your vote's not added!

GGTTH

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I signed, received the email, but there doesn't seem to be any link to confirm.

[Jim44]

Mike Ashley. A lovely man.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/09/how-sports-direct-effectively-pays-below-minimum-wage-pay

Shocking. It makes you almost want Sevco to stick one up him ........................ nah, a moment of weakness but I'll get over it. I wonder how many Sevco supporters work at Sports Direct.

[Dashing Bob S]

Shocking. It makes you almost want Sevco to stick one up him ........................ nah, a moment of weakness but I'll get over it. I wonder how many Sevco supporters work at Sports Direct.

When I see Sports Direct v Rangers, Ashley v King in courts, I think: there is a god.

[JimBHibees]

When I see Sports Direct v Rangers, Ashley v King in courts, I think: there is a god.

Yep all the makings of the rumble in the jungle. Just throw them some boxing gloves and get it over with. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Mike Ashley. A lovely man.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/09/how-sports-direct-effectively-pays-below-minimum-wage-pay

The thing I like about him is that in his dealings with the the rangers he is basically behaving in the same way as they have for decades, but he is a very big fish in their dirty pool, he is at least transparent in what he is doing, not pretending to be a paragon of virtue when he's not. He seems to pay his way as well so he's already ahead of two Scottish teams and the people that run them.

Whatever his motives, he is just the guy to flush out the murky goings on at the SFA and the now defunct Glasgow rangers at the critical stages that seen King emerge as fit and proper and also perhaps cast some light in the deal that sneaked the rangers back in the way they did, titles intact, so he might even be indirectly doing the rest of us a favour revealing that which we don't have the resources to pursue.

[portycabbage]

Stuart Regan on Radio Scotland saying the he didn't say that Scottish Football was facing armageddon, only that "some might say Scottish football is facing armageddon". So I can be getting on a plane and remark "some might say there's a bomb on board", and as I'm taken away, I'll express my shock as "I didn't say there was a bomb on board!". The magical "some might say" clause - must work in a similar fashion to the Warburton "respectfully..." clause.

[Jonnyboy]

Stuart Regan on Radio Scotland saying the he didn't say that Scottish Football was facing armageddon, only that "some might say Scottish football is facing armageddon". So I can be getting on a plane and remark "some might say there's a bomb on board", and as I'm taken away, I'll express my shock as "I didn't say there was a bomb on board!". The magical "some might say" clause - must work in a similar fashion to the Warburton "respectfully..." clause.

Some might say Regan is a dick .............. nah, most would say Regan is a dick :wink:

[Eyrie]

Some might say Regan is a dick .............. nah, most would say Regan is a dick :wink:

But they'd all say it respectfully.

[Jonnyboy]

But they'd all say it respectfully.

:greengrin

[Springbank]

But they'd all say it respectfully.

My actual favourite is "nobody is talking about Hibs"

[hibs0666]

The thing I like about him is that in his dealings with the the rangers he is basically behaving in the same way as they have for decades, but he is a very big fish in their dirty pool, he is at least transparent in what he is doing, not pretending to be a paragon of virtue when he's not. He seems to pay his way as well so he's already ahead of two Scottish teams and the people that run them.

Whatever his motives, he is just the guy to flush out the murky goings on at the SFA and the now defunct Glasgow rangers at the critical stages that seen King emerge as fit and proper and also perhaps cast some light in the deal that sneaked the rangers back in the way they did, titles intact, so he might even be indirectly doing the rest of us a favour revealing that which we don't have the resources to pursue.

There is nothing likable about Ashley, and we will rue his on-going involvement in Scottish football for years to come.

[jacomo]

There is nothing likable about Ashley, and we will rue his on-going involvement in Scottish football for years to come.

Why?

I don't rue his involvement in Scottish football. I'd be more worried if he actually was a Rangers fan, because with that much money he could turn them into a force again. As it is, that doesn't seem likely.

Also, he might be a Scrooge towards his employees, but as far as I know he doesn't break the law and he does pay taxes. So far, so preferable to the shower of ****bags who have been involved with that club before him.

[Bostonhibby]

There is nothing likable about Ashley, and we will rue his on-going involvement in Scottish football for years to come.

I don't disagree with you generally but for this one (which I say with a bit of irony) if he wasn't where he is, doing what he's doing for whatever motives the rest of us would be indignantly farting against the wind whilst the new boys and King would be effortlessly gliding along doing pretty much the same as before (are they not now financially?) and the authorities would be turning a blind eye as before at best, and at worst would be helping them along. Potentially squeaky bum time for the blazers I feel, and long overdue.

[Mr White]

Why?

I don't rue his involvement in Scottish football. I'd be more worried if he actually was a Rangers fan, because with that much money he could turn them into a force again. As it is, that doesn't seem likely.

Also, he might be a Scrooge towards his employees, but as far as I know he doesn't break the law and he does pay taxes. So far, so preferable to the shower of ****bags who have been involved with that club before him.

:agree:

Of all the key players in rangers and then sevcos recent history he's one of the few that hasn't tried to shaft hmrc. Puzzled as to how rangers self inflicted meltdown, and/or mash's involvement is going to damage our game for years though. Would it have been better if they'd been allowed to carry on cheating 666?

[Cropley10]

There is nothing likable about Ashley, and we will rue his on-going involvement in Scottish football for years to come.

How?

I suppose if he'd not loaned them cash they'd be even worse off, but he's got them spending big bucks on lawyers and not players. You agree that's a good thing right? Or would you rather The Rangers get to play at being one half of the Old Firm again, as its for the good of the game:confused:

[Deansy]

The majority of us want the end-result of all this 'court-action/money problems' concerning the Hun, is to see (hopefully) the total and utter implosion of them, along with their partners-in-grime at the GFA. Ashley's reasons/aims/hopes for doing what he's doing may be different from ours but as 'Ozyhibby' says -

'one club is playing by different rules and the governing body is helping them'

So anything and anyone that damages either of these two disgusting 'entities' is fine by me !