Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[greenginger]

Thinking could be the squad has been paid for February so might as well play them tomorrow. I think the administrators only get 14 days to tear up contracts in which case Monday will be the day of the Cull.

If the players are all still there next week Duff and Phelps really are the new Duff and Gray. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Players will go next week - least that's what's being said at Murray Park.


Do you know if they will be able to sign for other clubs outwith the transfer window? Bit harsh on the individuals if they're not.

[Hibbyradge]

Do you know if they will be able to sign for other clubs outwith the transfer window? Bit harsh on the individuals if they're not.

They'll be free agents so yes, they are free to sign for other clubs.

Note the word "free". :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Thinking could be the squad has been paid for February so might as well play them tomorrow. I think the administrators only get 14 days to tear up contracts in which case Monday will be the day of the Cull.

If the players are all still there next week Duff and Phelps really are the new Duff and Gray. :greengrin

I didn't know this. Is that a general rule, or just for football clubs?

[greenginger]

I didn't know this. Is that a general rule, or just for football clubs?



I'm sure I read somewhere that if the players are not released in the first 14 days of administration their contracts are deemed to have been taken over by the administrators.

Of course I may have read this in the Daily ****** in which case who knows ?


I have heard from contacts down in the Big Smoke that there is serious amounts of client's cash missing from Pritchards the stockbroker where Whyte was secretary until very recently. I don't think we will see much of the Motherwell Billionaire for a while.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if the players are not released in the first 14 days of administration their contracts are deemed to have been taken over by the administrators.

Of course I may have read this in the Daily ****** in which case who knows ?


I have heard from contacts down in the Big Smoke that there is serious amounts of client's cash missing from Pritchards the stockbroker where Whyte was secretary until very recently. I don't think we will see much of the Motherwell Billionaire for a while.

.... is there an IOU for 12 Arsenal shares in there? :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

Are you certain players will go next week or are you certain that is what is being said at Murray Park?
Do you know who at Murray Park is saying players will go next week?
Is the person a player or other member of staff, a supporter of rangers, a supporter of another club or someone waiting for a bus?h

Or.....




Source?

From a pal's pal's son - who is a u/19. Staff and players expecting to be let go.

[CropleyWasGod]

Administrators have been in the club for almost 2 weeks and yet not one Rangers player have been laid off?

The first role of the Admins, after securing the assets of the company, is to stop the company haemoraging money. In any other company, staff would have been pushed out the door within a day or two of the Admins walking in, yet these Admins appear happy for the club to continue paying high salaries with other people's money (i.e. our's/HMRC's). WTF is going on ?

This whole affair raises some serious questions about the rest of the pre-split games and validity if any games involving Rangers of Celtic from now on. Last week, Rangers were still playing for the title and had a full (overpaid) squad. In a few days time, they will be depleted and deflated, and any teams playing them now will have a clear advantage over those that had to play them pre-Administration.

This 10 point deduction might be fine for the Livi's and Gretna's, but doesn't come close to addressing the issues of a top 2 club "cheating".

Slightly disagree on this.

The admins have moved relatively quickly, IMO, in what they have done. Finding the missing £24m, ensuring a big pay day last week and (and this is crucial for me) establishing the actual amount of the HMRC debt. They have also been reviewing all departments at RFC from a staffing point of view.

Now that they know just how much money and debt they have, they can make sensible cuts to the staff.

[Leithenhibby]

Slightly disagree on this.

The admins have moved relatively quickly, IMO, in what they have done. Finding the missing £24m, ensuring a big pay day last week and (and this is crucial for me) establishing the actual amount of the HMRC debt. They have also been reviewing all departments at RFC from a staffing point of view.

Now that they know just how much money and debt they have, they can make sensible cuts to the staff.


This sounds reasonable enough to me as they (players) would have been paid this months wages.

Fair to say that the next few days will be crucial in getting the staff reduced to a manageable level ....

Roll on the next episode :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

[PatHead]

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

Know a lot of Celtic supporters who are in for a few hundred thousand.....................

[jonty]

https://www.saverangers.com/#tab_1

Anyone?.....

:tumble:

You know, for a couple of minutes, I thought that said scavengers.com :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

You know, for a couple of minutes, I thought that said scavengers.com :greengrin

:greengrin

I thought it said "scroungers". :wink:

[SteveHFC]

JJB are doing Buy 1 get 1 free Rangers top's

http://www.jjbsports...setFilters=true (http://www.jjbsports.com/scottish-premier-rangers/football/fcp-category/home?resetFilters=true)

Might become a bit of collectors item soon!
:faf:

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4154479/Gers-in-crisis-Player-deals-uncovered.html

[AustinHibee]

Strathclyde police have said they have been assured they will receive their money for policing
next home ensuring it will go ahead.
Surely that money should go to the likes of Dunfermline and Dundee Utd as they are owed that
for something that has already taken place as opposed to something that has yet to happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

Strathclyde police have said they have been assured they will receive their money for policing
next home ensuring it will go ahead.
Surely that money should go to the likes of Dunfermline and Dundee Utd as they are owed that
for something that has already taken place as opposed to something that has yet to happen.

SP are crucial to the game going ahead. If it doesn't, then there is less chance of those clubs getting their money than if it does.

[CentreLine]

If Craig Whyte was found to have run off with cash from Ticketus would that smell a lot like Long Firm Fraud? I am no accountant but my understanding of Long Firm Fraud is where a company builds up trust with a supplier over a period of time them stings them for a shed load of goods (or perhaps a loan) and disappears with those goods. Not sure that this is happening in this case but I thought for a moment I smelled a bit of a whiff in the air :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

If Craig Whyte was found to have run off with cash from Ticketus would that smell a lot like Long Firm Fraud? I am no accountant but my understanding of Long Firm Fraud is where a company builds up trust with a supplier over a period of time them stings them for a shed load of goods (or perhaps a loan) and disappears with those goods. Not sure that this is happening in this case but I thought for a moment I smelled a bit of a whiff in the air :confused:

I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

The extra £6m could be the crux, though. Whilst loans to directors of that amount are technically illegal, I can't remember seeing anybody prosecuted for it. In most cases, they are dealt with in retrospect by awarding dividends or bonuses. Also, we dont know whether CW repaid the £6m to RFC after he got the Ticketus money

[CentreLine]

I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

Good point :agree:

[WindyMiller]

I'm still unconvinced about the criminality in that. He was owed £18m by RFC. His defence would be that the £24m was payment for that, "plus a wee bit for masel, yer honour " :greengrin

The extra £6m could be the crux, though. Whilst loans to directors of that amount are technically illegal, I can't remember seeing anybody prosecuted for it. In most cases, they are dealt with in retrospect by awarding dividends or bonuses. Also, we dont know whether CW repaid the £6m to RFC after he got the Ticketus money

But surely £4m of that money was VAT?

[CropleyWasGod]

But surely £4m of that money was VAT?

Not sure of your point.

The £4m VAT element is payable by RFC, no matter what. If they haven't had any of the £24m from Ticketus, that means they are doubly stuffed. :greengrin

(actually, I am sure I read somewhere that they had already paid that VAT.)

[greenginger]

Not sure of your point.

The £4m VAT element is payable by RFC, no matter what. If they haven't had any of the £24m from Ticketus, that means they are doubly stuffed. :greengrin

(actually, I am sure I read somewhere that they had already paid that VAT.)


I think I read that the HMRC took the funds they had frozen in RFC's bank account to settle the " small tax case ", which Whyte subsequently appealed, and that was used to pay towards the outstanding VAT.

[Hibs Class]

Ally of the McCoist has said that finishing second in the league is worth £900k more than finishing 3rd which means they should keeptheir players in order to achieve that.
Could that be an own goal? the administrators can now calculate how much savings can be made by releasing players against a £900k target which may or may not be achieved with his current squad.

I'd be surprised if insolvency law allowed administrators to take a punt on what are effectively funds that belong to creditors.

[hibbytam]

Ally of the McCoist has said that finishing second in the league is worth £900k more than finishing 3rd which means they should keeptheir players in order to achieve that.
Could that be an own goal? the administrators can now calculate how much savings can be made by releasing players against a £900k target which may or may not be achieved with his current squad.

But why then do every other club that enter administration start with large scale lay-offs? Each of those clubs would earn more money by keeping expensive good players. Not an expert in such matters, but it just seems wrong that Rangers are in administration, but are able to keep all their players, and so able to continue as normal.

[Twa Cairpets]

But why then do every other club that enter administration start with large scale lay-offs? Each of those clubs would earn more money by keeping expensive good players. Not an expert in such matters, but it just seems wrong that Rangers are in administration, but are able to keep all their players, and so able to continue as normal.

Administrtion is essentially a means to keep the business running as a going concern if possible - it usually involves reducing headcount in a business, but doesnt always. The argument I'm guessing is that the on an ongoing trading basis, Rangers can meet their liabilities if not their historic debt. If you think of it as if it was manufacturing business - a company still needs to make stuff, and if they lay of their best machine operators they can't meet orders for the same price or lead-time that a competitor can, therefore their future ability to trade out of a administration is reduced. I'm guessing the same type of consideration is in the mind of the administrators - if they lay of the their best players, their customers will not by their product, and the income reduction will fall below that which would be saved by the salary saving.

That said, the debt (not counting the BTC) they have does need to be paid off, so if some reduction in staffing isnt made I'd be very, very surprised.

[Ozyhibby]

They are losing nearly a million pound a month without dealing with their historic debt to the taxman. If the administrator does not make cuts to wipe out this shortfall then they are not doing their job. If they can't prove to creditors that rangers can be run at a profit and the debt repaid then they have no chance of a CVA.
I think you will see mass lay offs this week, probably tues.

[Hibernia&Alba]

They are losing nearly a million pound a month without dealing with their historic debt to the taxman. If the administrator does not make cuts to wipe out this shortfall then they are not doing their job. If they can't prove to creditors that rangers can be run at a profit and the debt repaid then they have no chance of a CVA.
I think you will see mass lay offs this week, probably tues.

I would think so. I do feel for those employees who are going to lose their jobs; those who do the day to day work that we don't see. It's going to hit families hard at a time when the jobs market is very difficult. Any players released will be fine, but others will suffer hardship. For all the fun I get from seeing the Huns in such a mess, there will be innocent casualties.

[spike220]

There is no place at this day in age for a team who promotes and is based sectarian hatred. Their culture and songs are not a welcome part of the football landscape. I would extend my statement to any other clubs.

If Rangers die away I am okay with that. If they are forced to pay thier taxes they most probably will die away. This will be progress.

[Leithenhibby]

I would think so. I do feel for those employees who are going to lose their jobs; those who do the day to day work that we don't see. It's going to hit families hard at a time when the jobs market is very difficult. Any players released will be fine, but others will suffer hardship. For all the fun I get from seeing the Huns in such a mess, there will be innocent casualties.


And that is the real sad thing about this mess.

Having said that, I can't wait for RFC to be told that what they were/are doing is wrong, and they must pay the price for what amounts to cheating :agree: Call it what you will...

[jonty]

Midweek D-day for Rangers players and staff
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17170881



Rangers' administrators are expected to make an announcement on the future of
the Scottish champions' staff and players on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[IWasThere2016]

Midweek D-day for Rangers players and staff
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17170881

They just read ma posts :cool2:

[jonty]

They just read ma posts :cool2:

which ambiguous set of posts was that then? :wink:

[ancienthibby]

which ambiguous set of posts was that then? :wink:

Beeb Radio reporting that RFC have been fined £50,000 by the PLUS Stock Exchange for not reporting key information about Craikie Whyte.

I guess they'll not be looking for immediate payment!:greengrin

[TheEastTerrace]

No punches pulled here from Michael Grant in The Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/what-madness-made-whyte-think-he-could-treat-rangers-so-shabbily.16859239

[johnrebus]

No punches pulled here from Michael Grant in The Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/what-madness-made-whyte-think-he-could-treat-rangers-so-shabbily.16859239


Hmmm...,

Yet another article from that ever growing band of journalists who told us all about the bad man Whyte before the **** hit the fan. Its a bit like the 2 million Celtic fans who claim to have been in Seville for the Uefa Cup Final.


If I see the words, Scottish, Great, Rangers and Institution, again in the same sentence, I think I will throw up.


:brickwall

[IWasThere2016]

which ambiguous set of posts was that then? :wink:

Only ambiguity is between yer ears! :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Hmmm...,

Yet another article from that ever growing band of journalists who told us all about the bad man Whyte before the **** hit the fan. Its a bit like the 2 million Celtic fans who claim to have been in Seville for the Uefa Cup Final.


If I see the words, Scottish, Great, Rangers and Institution, again in the same sentence, I think I will throw up.


:brickwall

Wouldn't it be Great for all right-thinking Scottish people if all Rangers supporters were put in an Institution?

:greengrin

[grunt]

No punches pulled here from Michael Grant in The Herald
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/what-madness-made-whyte-think-he-could-treat-rangers-so-shabbily.16859239
Mistake in the very first sentence. Does no one proof read articles in the press any more?

[TheEastTerrace]

Hmmm...,

Yet another article from that ever growing band of journalists who told us all about the bad man Whyte before the **** hit the fan. Its a bit like the 2 million Celtic fans who claim to have been in Seville for the Uefa Cup Final.


If I see the words, Scottish, Great, Rangers and Institution, again in the same sentence, I think I will throw up.


:brickwall

Those journalists in the mainstream media turned a blind eye to it for years. They are just as culpable as the SFA, SPL and others in not having any checks and balances to ensure Rangers didn't end up in this mess.

Whoever writes Rangerstaxcase.com and Phil Mac were running this story online for a long time before the Scottish mainstream media hacks woke up and stopped regurgating press releases from PR men at Ibrox.

[jonty]

Only ambiguity is between yer ears! :wink:
Thats a no then :wink:

[PatHead]

Rangers definately were "bullet proof" under David Murray with constant bum licking from likes of Chick Young. Bunch of self rightous hippocrytes. I remember when Celtic were almost going under and the papers put a hearse outside Parkhead.

The majority of the papers seem to blame either or both of Whyte and David Murray. Other culpable board members such as Paul Murray and the guy in US who BBC love are getting away Scot free as they may be involved in the new bigoted "institution" which will evolve.

Next year at this time it will be same old, same old......

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers definately were "bullet proof" under David Murray with constant bum licking from likes of Chick Young. Bunch of self rightous hippocrytes. I remember when Celtic were almost going under and the papers put a hearse outside Parkhead.

The majority of the papers seem to blame either or both of Whyte and David Murray. Other culpable board members such as Paul Murray and the guy in US who BBC love are getting away Scot free as they may be involved in the new bigoted "institution" which will evolve.

Next year at this time it will be same old, same old......

I'm not sure if I agree here. In years gone by, I think you would have been right. However, things are so high-profile now that there will be a public demand (from the wider taxpaying community as well as football supporters) for the "right thing" to be done.

[PatHead]

I'm not sure if I agree here. In years gone by, I think you would have been right. However, things are so high-profile now that there will be a public demand (from the wider taxpaying community as well as football supporters) for the "right thing" to be done.

We will need to agree to disagree on this.

Still feel that Rangers will evolve into Glasgow Rangers 2012 Ltd (or something similar)and be co-opted into the SPL at behest of Sky and Celtic. The press will once again get down and worship at this great Protestant, Scottish, world class, institution and remark how well they have done at reforming, all the other clubs, Hibs included, will bend over and take it. The greatest opportunity ever to revolutionise Scottish football wasted.

[CropleyWasGod]

We will need to agree to disagree on this.

Still feel that Rangers will evolve into Glasgow Rangers 2012 Ltd (or something similar)and be co-opted into the SPL at behest of Sky and Celtic. The press will once again get down and worship at this great Protestant, Scottish, world class, institution and remark how well they have done at reforming, all the other clubs, Hibs included, will bend over and take it. The greatest opportunity ever to revolutionise Scottish football wasted.

Happy Monday? :greengrin

You're probably right. Maybe I'm expressing what I'd like to happen.

[Andy74]

We will need to agree to disagree on this.

Still feel that Rangers will evolve into Glasgow Rangers 2012 Ltd (or something similar)and be co-opted into the SPL at behest of Sky and Celtic. The press will once again get down and worship at this great Protestant, Scottish, world class, institution and remark how well they have done at reforming, all the other clubs, Hibs included, will bend over and take it. The greatest opportunity ever to revolutionise Scottish football wasted.

Don't doubt any of that.

[jdships]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/rangers_fined_50_000_by_plus_stock_exchange_1_2141 342

More financial problems !!

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/rangers_fined_50_000_by_plus_stock_exchange_1_2141 342

More financial problems !!

Ach, no problem. Cousin's no signed now, so 6 weeks of his wages. Sorted.

[johnrebus]

Wouldn't it be Great for all right-thinking Scottish people if all Rangers supporters were put in an Institution?

:greengrin

It would be great, if it wasn't for the fact that we - the taxpayers - would end up paying for that too.............,


:boo hoo:

[CropleyWasGod]

It would be great, if it wasn't for the fact that we - the taxpayers - would end up paying for that too.............,


:boo hoo:

Um... whoosh?

That was your cue to throw up :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Another Craigy boy story that I have to share:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/02/26/limo-boss-tells-how-gers-owner-whyte-bounced-cheque-for-34-000-86908-23765406/

The guy in the story is an old mate of mine. However, the "stuntman" bit is pure Whyte. He was a dancer. Obviously, the ****** doesn't recognise the concept of Weegie men in non-macho occupations. :rolleyes:

[ancienthibby]

Another Craigy boy story that I have to share:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/02/26/limo-boss-tells-how-gers-owner-whyte-bounced-cheque-for-34-000-86908-23765406/

The guy in the story is an old mate of mine. However, the "stuntman" bit is pure Whyte. He was a dancer. Obviously, the ****** doesn't recognise the concept of Weegie men in non-macho occupations. :rolleyes:

Of course not - it employs Traynor!!:faf:

[Vini1875]

Another Craigy boy story that I have to share:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/02/26/limo-boss-tells-how-gers-owner-whyte-bounced-cheque-for-34-000-86908-23765406/

The guy in the story is an old mate of mine. However, the "stuntman" bit is pure Whyte. He was a dancer. Obviously, the ****** doesn't recognise the concept of Weegie men in non-macho occupations. :rolleyes:

Renfrew and motherwell are not Glasgow. How come anyone west of Corstorphine suddenly becomes a weegie?

[CropleyWasGod]

Renfrew and motherwell are not Glasgow. How come anyone west of Corstorphine suddenly becomes a weegie?

The clue is the bit where I said that he's a mate of mine :na na:

ps I thought Haymarket was the cut-off point for Weegies, anyway?

[green glory]

Renfrew and motherwell are not Glasgow. How come anyone west of Corstorphine suddenly becomes a weegie?

Anywhere west of Ratho. That's where the Old Firm poison begins in earnest.

[stokesmessiah]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/7552125/Whyte-refutes-missing-millions-


Did anyone hear this?

Just picked up the link on the Bears Den where people are still arguing the case for CW. Apparently the lie about ticketus money was not enough to make them worried about what he is saying now.

[The_Todd]

Renfrew and motherwell are not Glasgow. How come anyone west of Corstorphine suddenly becomes a weegie?

Have you ever been to Livingston? Close your eyes, listen to the accent and you could easily imagine you were in Sauchiehall Street.

[ancient hibee]

Have you ever been to Livingston? Close your eyes, listen to the accent and you could easily imagine you were in Sauchiehall Street.


More like Karachi.

[At The Edge]

Have you ever been to Livingston? Close your eyes, listen to the accent and you could easily imagine you were in Sauchiehall Street.

its more a hybrid central scotland accent in livingston,
although when you visit the centre you would think you were in Glasgow with the amount of infirm strips and other tat on.
Harthill is currently midway through its hun relief fortnight, clanking buckie bottles together in appreciation of all things orange in a desperate attempt to raise funds
:pfgwa

[Redford Raj]

its more a hybrid central scotland accent in livingston,
although when you visit the centre you would think you were in Glasgow with the amount of infirm strips and other tat on.
Harthill is currently midway through its hun relief fortnight, clanking buckie bottles together in appreciation of all things orange in a desperate attempt to raise funds
:pfgwa
why are we so up our a@@@ about rankers lets celebrate that we are the Hibees and not in financial bother. Let the rankers die in misery

[CropleyWasGod]

why are we so up our a@@@ about rankers lets celebrate that we are the Hibees and not in financial bother. Let the rankers die in misery

Celebrating nice Balance Sheets isn't fun.

Schadenfreude is. :agree:

And, if you think 53 pages on the lingering agony of RFC is up our ass, just wait until it's the Hertz' turn....

[SteveHFC]

What players do you think will be away?

Hopefully all of them :greengrin

[Mark79]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs&sns=em

Sorry if already posted. Brilliant.

[Redford Raj]

Celebrating nice Balance Sheets isn't fun.

Schadenfreude is. :agree:

And, if you think 53 pages on the lingering agony of RFC is up our ass, just wait until it's the Hertz' turn....
I can't wait for that!

[hfc rd]

I heard that Kyle lafferty is going to be the first one punted. Supposedly if he plays two more games for rangers then rangers owe burnley fc something like £500K, which is obvious they don't have and I think the admins have told ally that he can't play as they can't fork out £500K. Heard it from a mate at work who is a rangers season ticket holder.

[Redford Raj]

I heard that Kyle lafferty is going to be the first one punted. Supposedly if he plays two more games for rangers then rangers owe burnley fc something like £500K, which is obvious they don't have and I think the admins have told ally that he can't play as they can't fork out £500K. Heard it from a mate at work who is a rangers season ticket holder.
Crumbs off their table we are Hibees 'we maybe the new people'.

[TornadoHibby]

I heard that Kyle lafferty is going to be the first one punted. Supposedly if he plays two more games for rangers then rangers owe burnley fc something like £500K, which is obvious they don't have and I think the admins have told ally that he can't play as they can't fork out £500K. Heard it from a mate at work who is a rangers season ticket holder.

Might be the reason he's been "injured" for so long! :wink: :greengrin

[hfc rd]

Have a feeling lee wallace will be the next casualty as rangers owe the yams £800K. Be so funny if that is the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

Have a feeling lee wallace will be the next casualty as rangers owe the yams £800K. Be so funny if that is the case.

Wouldn't affect the amount they owe, though.

[Leithenhibby]

Wouldn't affect the amount they owe, though.


No, but we have touched upon that fact that there will be a lot of innocent people/ companies involved through no fault of their own :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

No, but we have touched upon that fact that there will be a lot of innocent people/ companies involved through no fault of their own :aok:

The poor wee lambs.....:greengrin

[Redford Raj]

Have a feeling lee wallace will be the next casualty as rangers owe the yams £800K. Be so funny if that is the case.
what have the Sun and the Sun on Sunday have found out about Rankers. ****** all just the date for the Independence Referendum and the Scotsman and Scotsman on Sunday about Hearts ****** all the same. Alec Salmond

[CropleyWasGod]

what have the Sun and the Sun on Sunday have found out about Rankers. ****** all just the date for the Independence Referendum and the Scotsman and Scotsman on Sunday about Hearts ****** all the same. Alec Salmond

Thanks for that, Alec. :wink:

[Redford Raj]

Thanks for that, Alec. :wink:
I agree Cropley was a god. Alec Salmond was maybe Hearts supporter. How does a person who was born and bred a sheep becomes a Hearts Supporter the mind boggles.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree Cropley was a god. Alec Salmond was maybe Hearts supporter. How does a person who was born and bred a sheep becomes a Hearts Supporter the mind boggles.

He was born and brought up in Linlithgow.

[Twa Cairpets]

He was born and brought up in Linlithgow.

Which I would hasten to add does not make one a yam

[jgl07]

Wouldn't affect the amount they owe, though.

Plus Lee Wallace is saleable. Villa were interested.

[Redford Raj]

Which I would hasten to add does not make one a yam
Have we got a nickname for a Linlithgow Rose supporter? Maybe a yamette because of the colour of their strip!

[CropleyWasGod]

Have we got a nickname for a Linlithgow Rose supporter? Maybe a yamette because of the colour of their strip!

A Bo'ness United fan without the bus fare?:confused:

[Redford Raj]

A Bo'ness United fan without the bus fare?:confused:
Shall we forward this to David Cameron

[CropleyWasGod]

Shall we forward this to David Cameron

Lost me

[monktonharp]

its more a hybrid central scotland accent in livingston,
although when you visit the centre you would think you were in Glasgow with the amount of infirm strips and other tat on.
Harthill is currently midway through its hun relief fortnight, clanking buckie bottles together in appreciation of all things orange in a desperate attempt to raise funds
:pfgwatry going to Asda at the Jewel aboot 1am in the morning if your looking for fat lassies fae the Pans or Turnent wearin' Rangers/Celtic strips.the bit I dinnae get on here tho' is calling somedae a weegie, if they have a bit of a west twang, say words like aff, instead o' oaf, geezabrek, instead o' give me a break etc. I was brought up in a wee mining village (Newcraighall) and we had loadsa different twangs fae shotts/benhar tae nitten/gorebrig, halbeath/cowdenbeath, dozens of wee slang words that are all part o' Scotland, or mainly the central belt. the village was mair like a mussie/fisherow accent although now part o' Edinburgh but ah cannae mind o' any Corstorphine or Morninside accents at ma wee school, and I'm proud o' that!. A best mate's auld man spoke wi' a broad Shotts accent but wisnae classed as a weegie/underclass and i've worked wi' some top guys fi Glesga' guys over the years, jist dinnae cunderstand this weegie bit! I do hope for the worst though,for Rangers. and I do mean that, not "Glasgow Rangers" which is not the club's name.

[Seveno]

In all the talk about players about to be made redundant, I don't recall seeing any suggestions that the manager might be shown the door. It happened with Dundee so why not at Castle Greyskull ?

' Gie's a job, Sue !' :cb

[greenginger]

In all the talk about players about to be made redundant, I don't recall seeing any suggestions that the manager might be shown the door. It happened with Dundee so why not at Castle Greyskull ?

' Gie's a job, Sue !' :cb


McCoist has stated he does not want anything to do with trimming the playing squad. Dereliction of duty in my opinion,may'be he is looking for an exit route but dos'nt want to be seen as a rat leaving a sinking ship.

[johnrebus]

McCoist has stated he does not want anything to do with trimming the playing squad. Dereliction of duty in my opinion,may'be he is looking for an exit route but dos'nt want to be seen as a rat leaving a sinking ship.


Since the day he punched Mark Fulton from behind, I've always liked this description of him.


:cb

[alfie]

McCoist has stated he does not want anything to do with trimming the playing squad. Dereliction of duty in my opinion,may'be he is looking for an exit route but dos'nt want to be seen as a rat leaving a sinking ship.
Maybe he wants to leave it to Duff & Phelps to choose them from a purely financial perspective? Although getting rid of Sally might save a fair wedge as well. Do they have any other first team coaches that could do the job? Might also save on their pie bill as well, come to think of it!
Maybe he knows he is getting the boot, which is why he doesnt want to choose players to go as well. Might be seen as bad form (which presumably would be a first from him)? :dunno:

[EuanH78]

Maybe he wants to leave it to Duff & Phelps to choose them from a purely financial perspective? Although getting rid of Sally might save a fair wedge as well. Do they have any other first team coaches that could do the job? Might also save on their pie bill as well, come to think of it!
Maybe he knows he is getting the boot, which is why he doesnt want to choose players to go as well. Might be seen as bad form (which presumably would be a first from him)? :dunno:

Doesn't want to get his hands dirty making the necessary, difficult decisions. Cowardly IMO, but that about sums Sally up eh?

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay, here is today's topic for discussion, guys. Yet another twist:-

http://m.dailyrecord.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/scotdr/sXYM6tQWZ2A7rrz3VgWirMw/view.m?id=4159926&tid=638956&cat=SPL

The lawyers among us can explain the legal issues, particularly the difference between Scots and English Law.

However, from my perspective, if the Ticketus deal is set aside, it has the following implications.

1. RFC get all their own season ticket money for the next few seasons.

2. Ticketus get stiffed for the £24m. They would then either pick that up through insurance, or through the guarantee that CW says he made.

3. CW/RFCG's security comes back into play.

Pretty significant, IMO.

Thoughts?

[Hibbyradge]

try going to Asda at the Jewel aboot 1am in the morning if your looking for fat lassies fae the Pans or Turnent wearin' Rangers/Celtic strips.the bit I dinnae get on here tho' is calling somedae a weegie, if they have a bit of a west twang, say words like aff, instead o' oaf, geezabrek, instead o' give me a break etc. I was brought up in a wee mining village (Newcraighall) and we had loadsa different twangs fae shotts/benhar tae nitten/gorebrig, halbeath/cowdenbeath, dozens of wee slang words that are all part o' Scotland, or mainly the central belt. the village was mair like a mussie/fisherow accent although now part o' Edinburgh but ah cannae mind o' any Corstorphine or Morninside accents at ma wee school, and I'm proud o' that!. A best mate's auld man spoke wi' a broad Shotts accent but wisnae classed as a weegie/underclass and i've worked wi' some top guys fi Glesga' guys over the years, jist dinnae cunderstand this weegie bit! I do hope for the worst though,for Rangers. and I do mean that, not "Glasgow Rangers" which is not the club's name.

Ach, after defending you in one thread, you go and post this! :wink:

Why are you proud that you can't remember if there were any Morningside or Corstorphine accents in your class at school?

[Hibbyradge]

Okay, here is today's topic for discussion, guys. Yet another twist:-

http://m.dailyrecord.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/scotdr/sXYM6tQWZ2A7rrz3VgWirMw/view.m?id=4159926&tid=638956&cat=SPL

The lawyers among us can explain the legal issues, particularly the difference between Scots and English Law.

However, from my perspective, if the Ticketus deal is set aside, it has the following implications.

1. RFC get all their own season ticket money for the next few seasons.

2. Ticketus get stiffed for the £24m. They would then either pick that up through insurance, or through the guarantee that CW says he made.

3. CW/RFCG's security comes back into play.

Pretty significant, IMO.

Thoughts?

So Rangers are in effect, stealing from Ticketus or from their insurance company?

[Squealing pig]

Have we got a nickname for a Linlithgow Rose supporter? Maybe a yamette because of the colour of their strip!

Yam will do fine they're just as dirty as jambos in my eyes

[hibs0666]

Okay, here is today's topic for discussion, guys. Yet another twist:-

http://m.dailyrecord.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/scotdr/sXYM6tQWZ2A7rrz3VgWirMw/view.m?id=4159926&tid=638956&cat=SPL

The lawyers among us can explain the legal issues, particularly the difference between Scots and English Law.

However, from my perspective, if the Ticketus deal is set aside, it has the following implications.

1. RFC get all their own season ticket money for the next few seasons.

2. Ticketus get stiffed for the £24m. They would then either pick that up through insurance, or through the guarantee that CW says he made.

3. CW/RFCG's security comes back into play.

Pretty significant, IMO.

Thoughts?

It's a bit of a mad article. On one hand it says that the deal can be ignored. On the other hand it says that the administrators are after £4 million from that deal.

With such uncertainty there is no danger that that the admnistrators will get access to the loot unless ordered by a court. And, if it is ordered by a court, then that would indicate that Ticketus do indeed own the tickets after all.

[CropleyWasGod]

So Rangers are in effect, stealing from Ticketus or from their insurance company?

...or from CW.:greengrin

Can't see it as stealing, TBH. They are trying to have a contract set aside, and the situation returned to where it was before the deal happened.

My confusion is over who had the contract in the first place..... CW or RFC... and I think that's at the heart of the matter here.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's a bit of a mad article. On one hand it says that the deal can be ignored. On the other hand it says that the administrators are after £4 million from that deal.

With such uncertainty there is no danger that that the admnistrators will get access to the loot unless ordered by a court. And, if it is ordered by a court, then that would indicate that Ticketus do indeed own the tickets after all.

Yeah, I got that bit too. But remember that RFC are down £4m in that they paid the VAT on the deal. So, if the deal is set aside, HMRC are due RFC £4m. (or, RFC are due £4m less to HMRC :greengrin)

As for it being "mad", we have to remind ourselves that this is football journalists talking. Not to undermine what they have found out in terms of "facts", but sometimes they don't understand the issues. eg STV saying that RFC took VAT off player's wages. :rolleyes:

[IWasThere2016]

It's a bit of a mad article. On one hand it says that the deal can be ignored. On the other hand it says that the administrators are after £4 million from that deal.

With such uncertainty there is no danger that that the admnistrators will get access to the loot unless ordered by a court. And, if it is ordered by a court, then that would indicate that Ticketus do indeed own the tickets after all.

Yup :confused: not follow following (see what I did there :greengrin) that at all

[CropleyWasGod]

Yup :confused: not follow following (see what I did there :greengrin) that at all

They are saying there is no surrender yet. :wink:

[greenginger]

I don't get the bit about " personal rights cannot be assigned ". I would have thought any rights a season ticket holder had ended at the expiry of the season ticket.

Also its been stated this system of Ticketus funding has been on going at Ibrox, all be it on a much smaller scale, for a number of seasons so a precedent of Season tickets being sold on behalf of Ticketus has been established.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't get the bit about " personal rights cannot be assigned ". I would have thought any rights a season ticket holder had ended at the expiry of the season ticket.

Also its been stated this system of Ticketus funding has been on going at Ibrox, all be it on a much smaller scale, for a number of seasons so a precedent of Season tickets being sold on behalf of Ticketus has been established.

Yeah, we need a lawyer :greengrin

My question is.... in most (all?) contracts, there is a clause stating what law applies, ie English or Scots. Shirley this would have been expressed?

[ScottB]

In all the talk about players about to be made redundant, I don't recall seeing any suggestions that the manager might be shown the door. It happened with Dundee so why not at Castle Greyskull ?

' Gie's a job, Sue !' :cb

Has he not taken a voluntary 80% pay cut?

[Twa Cairpets]

Yam will do fine they're just as dirty as jambos in my eyes

Oy. "Judge not a team by the colour of the strip they choose to wear, although it be an unfortunate choice in the eyes of the righteous". I'm sure that's in the bible. Probably. :greengrin

[aljo7-0]

Yeah, we need a lawyer :greengrin

My question is.... in most (all?) contracts, there is a clause stating what law applies, ie English or Scots. Shirley this would have been expressed?

Absolutely right. Usually the contract does state whether Scots or English Law will govern it. If it is silent then an Action can be raised on the location of the event under the contract which would presumably be Scotland here. Given Ticketus are English and this is their field I'd be surprised if their contracts did not specifically state it would be governmed under English Law but then nothing surprises me about this anymore.

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely right. Usually the contract does state whether Scots or English Law will govern it. If it is silent then an Action can be raised on the location of the event under the contract which would presumably be Scotland here. Given Ticketus are English and this is their field I'd be surprised if their contracts did not specifically state it would be governmed under English Law but then nothing surprises me about this anymore.

Thanks for that.

Your final sentence says it all for me.... as someone else said, given that Ticketus have previous dealings with RFC, one would expect it to be a similar contract to before, and "watertight". That said, maybe no-one has needed to challenge it before.

Do you have any view on the "personal rights" bit?

[aljo7-0]

It's not really my field but by definition a personal right is exactly that it is personal to the individual and cannot be transferred to another. For example if we were neighbours and I granted you a personal right to walk through my garden to the bus stop - then you personally get the right to do so but if you sold your house to Jo Bloggs he would not get the right to as you could not assign it. I would need to give him a fresh right.

I guess the article/administrators are saying that the Season Ticket holders get a personal right to a ticket for each home game for their payment for the Season Ticket money. The personal right must come from Rangers to the seat for each game therefore it cannot be assigned to Ticketus as Ticketus do not own the seats and cannot give the personal right to the Season Ticket holder to use the seat.
But then again I'm a bit confused by this as you would have thought the contract between Ticketus and Rangers was some sort of loan agreement with the repayments due to Ticketus being dependant on how many personal rights Rangers gave out by way of Season Tickets sales rather than Rangers assigning the rights to Ticketus or something like that :greengrin

[hibs0666]

It's not really my field but by definition a personal right is exactly that it is personal to the individual and cannot be transferred to another. For example if we were neighbours and I granted you a personal right to walk through my garden to the bus stop - then you personally get the right to do so but if you sold your house to Jo Bloggs he would not get the right to as you could not assign it. I would need to give him a fresh right.

I guess the article/administrators are saying that the Season Ticket holders get a personal right to a ticket for each home game for their payment for the Season Ticket money. The personal right must come from Rangers to the seat for each game therefore it cannot be assigned to Ticketus as Ticketus do not own the seats and cannot give the personal right to the Season Ticket holder to use the seat.
But then again I'm a bit confused by this as you would have thought the contract between Ticketus and Rangers was some sort of loan agreement with the repayments due to Ticketus being dependant on how many personal rights Rangers gave out by way of Season Tickets sales rather than Rangers assigning the rights to Ticketus or something like that :greengrin

I would guess that any personal right expires when the season ticket expires, and so the huns would be perfectly within their rights to sell tickets to Ticketus who could then assign tickets as they see fit.

[aljo7-0]

I would guess that any personal right expires when the season ticket expires, and so the huns would be perfectly within their rights to sell tickets to Ticketus who could then assign tickets as they see fit.

Yup that seems perfectly reasonable. It all comes down to what the contract between the huns and Ticketus states - at the moment this is all guess work

[Seveno]

Thanks for that.

Your final sentence says it all for me.... as someone else said, given that Ticketus have previous dealings with RFC, one would expect it to be a similar contract to before, and "watertight". That said, maybe no-one has needed to challenge it before.

Do you have any view on the "personal rights" bit?

Seems odd considering there are no personal rights at the time the contract was made.

In any case, I suspect that the security offered by Whyte was from one of his companies where he was able to show that they had cash in the bank at the time that the contract was signed. Don't be surprised if this company is now insolvent.

Considering that Duff and Phelps have been working with Whyte all along, should they have known what he was up to ?

[oxymoron]

Okay, here is today's topic for discussion, guys. Yet another twist:-

http://m.dailyrecord.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/scotdr/sXYM6tQWZ2A7rrz3VgWirMw/view.m?id=4159926&tid=638956&cat=SPL

The lawyers among us can explain the legal issues, particularly the difference between Scots and English Law.

However, from my perspective, if the Ticketus deal is set aside, it has the following implications.

1. RFC get all their own season ticket money for the next few seasons.

2. Ticketus get stiffed for the £24m. They would then either pick that up through insurance, or through the guarantee that CW says he made.

3. CW/RFCG's security comes back into play.

Pretty significant, IMO.

Thoughts?

Surely the fact remains that most of the 'ticketus' money was used to pay off Lloyds. If this deal was null 'n voided, then they have to unravel the Lloyds money - in which case its still owed. Otherwise are they really suggesting that they get the £24M back but dont owe Lloyds? This is pure dross from the Daily Rankers.

[Thecat23]

By the way out of interest why is Ibrox called Castle Grayskull? Wasn't that He-Man's pad? He-Man was a goody and Grayskull was the power of all things good!! Wasn't Snake Mountain Skeletor's home? On another note He Man had a shan hair do but i wouldn't tell him that.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely the fact remains that most of the 'ticketus' money was used to pay off Lloyds. If this deal was null 'n voided, then they have to unravel the Lloyds money - in which case its still owed. Otherwise are they really suggesting that they get the £24M back but dont owe Lloyds? This is pure dross from the Daily Rankers.

It's not about getting the £24m "back". They have already had that... £18m of which went to Lloyds, and the rest is "somewhere".

It's about getting off the hook of the Ticketus deal. If they can manage that, they will be much more attractive to a buyer.

[KeithTheHibby]

Has he not taken a voluntary 80% pay cut?

Erm no it was an 80% PIE cut.:greengrin

[Smidge]

I am confused by the phrase "personal rights can't be assigned".

As far as I understand it, and I think that this would probably be Ticketus' position - they haven't received the benefit of any personal rights. They have received the transfer of an asset - a certain number of STs to Ibrox for future seasons. To assign personal rights of ST holders, Rangers would have to resell the STs after they've been bought?

Looks like Keith Jackson has misinterpreted something. I have no doubt that D&P will be trying everything to get out of the Ticketus contract, but I'm not convinced this would be the right angle. As I've said before, I think there must be more to the contract - that Rangers are Ticketus' agent for selling the STs to the general public and are obligated to pass on the proceeds of sales to Ticketus. D&P might be trying to set aside that element of the contract (and who can blame them for that), but Ticketus could rightly say, give us our £24.4m back then please. That has disappeared - via Lloyds and other unknown destinations - so they would then rank as an unsecured creditor.

[aussie_hibee]

By the way out of interest why is Ibrox called Castle Grayskull? Wasn't that He-Man's pad? He-Man was a goody and Grayskull was the power of all things good!! Wasn't Snake Mountain Skeletor's home? On another note He Man had a shan hair do but i wouldn't tell him that.
Not wishing to hijack the thread but I asked the same thing a while back and the answer I got was that nobody ever won at castle greyskull. I wasn't really satisfied with that but nobody has given me a better answer.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am confused by the phrase "personal rights can't be assigned".

As far as I understand it, and I think that this would probably be Ticketus' position - they haven't received the benefit of any personal rights. They have received the transfer of an asset - a certain number of STs to Ibrox for future seasons. To assign personal rights of ST holders, Rangers would have to resell the STs after they've been bought?

Looks like Keith Jackson has misinterpreted something. I have no doubt that D&P will be trying everything to get out of the Ticketus contract, but I'm not convinced this would be the right angle. As I've said before, I think there must be more to the contract - that Rangers are Ticketus' agent for selling the STs to the general public and are obligated to pass on the proceeds of sales to Ticketus. D&P might be trying to set aside that element of the contract (and who can blame them for that), but Ticketus could rightly say, give us our £24.4m back then please. That has disappeared - via Lloyds and other unknown destinations - so they would then rank as an unsecured creditor.

... you may be right on that. As I said on an earlier post, it's difficult sometimes (but fun) to extricate the technical issues when they're being reported by non-technical people.

As a non-lawyer, though, I am confused by the personal rights thing too. As I saw it, Ticketus had bought and paid for the tickets. End of.

Is the "personal" thing perhaps about CW and the apparent fact that he/RFCG or whoever entered into a contract with Ticketus, rather than RFC?

[Thecat23]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but I asked the same thing a while back and the answer I got was that nobody ever won at castle greyskull. I wasn't really satisfied with that but nobody has given me a better answer.

Ah right, never knew that. They can't call it that any more as more teams seem to be picking up points there :greengrin

[Seveno]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but I asked the same thing a while back and the answer I got was that nobody ever won at castle greyskull. I wasn't really satisfied with that but nobody has given me a better answer.

The answer is that a clever young entrepreneur came along and erected a giant plastic version of a popular toy around Ibrox. Although it looked pretty ominous, the hun hordes thought that it looked pretty cool.

What they did not notice though was that said entrepreneur had sold what was inside. One day, the hun hordes woke up to find that their club was in fact just an empty shell.

Simples. :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

The answer is that a clever young entrepreneur came along and erected a giant plastic version of a popular toy around Ibrox. Although it looked pretty ominous, the hun hordes thought that it looked pretty cool.

What they did not notice though was that said entrepreneur had sold what was inside. One day, the hun hordes woke up to find that their club was in fact just an empty shell.

Simples. :cb

Brilliant :top marks

[BurghHibby]

Since the day he punched Mark Fulton from behind, I've always liked this description of him.


:aok:

And let somebody else take the blame for it anaw!!

[John_the_angus_hibby]

Okay, here is today's topic for discussion, guys. Yet another twist:-

http://m.dailyrecord.co.uk/ms/p/tmg/scotdr/sXYM6tQWZ2A7rrz3VgWirMw/view.m?id=4159926&tid=638956&cat=SPL

The lawyers among us can explain the legal issues, particularly the difference between Scots and English Law.

However, from my perspective, if the Ticketus deal is set aside, it has the following implications.

1. RFC get all their own season ticket money for the next few seasons.

2. Ticketus get stiffed for the £24m. They would then either pick that up through insurance, or through the guarantee that CW says he made.

3. CW/RFCG's security comes back into play.

Pretty significant, IMO.

Thoughts?

Er, I see that it's been written by those two well respected city and business reporters Traynor and Jackson! Nuff said I think!


Sent from another universe!

[CropleyWasGod]

Er, I see that it's been written by those two well respected city and business reporters Traynor and Jackson! Nuff said I think!


Sent from another universe!

To be fair to them both, it was Jackson who was talking about CW using the Ticketus money to pay off LBG as long ago as last summer. Traynor has come to it later, but he has been banging that particular drum for a while now and has not been soft on CW

[Smidge]

... you may be right on that. As I said on an earlier post, it's difficult sometimes (but fun) to extricate the technical issues when they're being reported by non-technical people.

As a non-lawyer, though, I am confused by the personal rights thing too. As I saw it, Ticketus had bought and paid for the tickets. End of.

Is the "personal" thing perhaps about CW and the apparent fact that he/RFCG or whoever entered into a contract with Ticketus, rather than RFC?

It's nearly 15 years since I graduated with an honours degree in law and I never practiced, so I'm really rusty on this point. However, I have a niggly feeling that there could be something in corporate entities being able to have "personal" rights - they are not personal in the sense of belonging to a person, but personal in the sense of only applicable to them.

Still, I'm with you in that as far as I know, Ticketus took the assignment of nothing - they bought the tickets outright at a discount. The administrators may have the right to cancel the contract, in which case they will rank as an unsecured creditor for their £24.4m, but given the loopholes being sought, I suspect it is nowhere near as simple as that!

[ancient hibee]

HOT FROM THE PRESS

Rangers to release 10 top players












BUT


















They are keeping 4 referees on the payroll.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's not really my field but by definition a personal right is exactly that it is personal to the individual and cannot be transferred to another. For example if we were neighbours and I granted you a personal right to walk through my garden to the bus stop - then you personally get the right to do so but if you sold your house to Jo Bloggs he would not get the right to as you could not assign it. I would need to give him a fresh right.

I guess the article/administrators are saying that the Season Ticket holders get a personal right to a ticket for each home game for their payment for the Season Ticket money. The personal right must come from Rangers to the seat for each game therefore it cannot be assigned to Ticketus as Ticketus do not own the seats and cannot give the personal right to the Season Ticket holder to use the seat.
But then again I'm a bit confused by this as you would have thought the contract between Ticketus and Rangers was some sort of loan agreement with the repayments due to Ticketus being dependant on how many personal rights Rangers gave out by way of Season Tickets sales rather than Rangers assigning the rights to Ticketus or something like that :greengrin

How can any contract of this nature then stand up to legal scrutiny ?
Were tickets effectively sold something that could never ever be fulfilled?

Money for nothin'
And the chicks for free ;)

Ticketus were at pains to state that they were not in the business of dealing out loans So me confuzzed

[aljo7-0]

Yes I'm confused too. Without sight of the contract we can only guess at what is says but having examined a few contracts in my time there is every chance I'd simply be more confused after reading it!
Whilst we are guessing as to what the it might say, the one certainty about the contract is that it will state in 50,000 words what could be reasonably stated in 5,000 :greengrin These big commercial contracts are far from plain reading and in many cases far from plain English.

[Eyrie]

Not a lawyer, so this may be a long shot ....

A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew, so I suspect that may be the "personal right" referred to. I'm not sure if this is a contractual right however.

The Ticketus deal has been described as Rangers selling the season tickets for the next four years (three if you believe Whyte), which explains why there is VAT due now and not annually. So it could be that Rangers sold the right to buy a ticket for the same seat each year which they are not entitled to do.

That would make the deal null and void, getting Rangers off the hook for the £4m VAT they are due, but meaning that they owe Ticketus £24m. And since they don't have that money, Whyte's guarantee will be called in.

[CropleyWasGod]

How can any contract of this nature then stand up to legal scrutiny ?
Were tickets effectively sold something that could never ever be fulfilled?

Money for nothin'
And the chicks for free ;)

Ticketus were at pains to state that they were not in the business of dealing out loans So me confuzzed

Definitely not a loan. Ticketus bought ST's from RFC (or perhaps the "rights" to a share of future sales). They would recover their cash from the actual ST sales, plus a profit.

[Barney McGrew]

A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew

No it doesn't, it simply entitles them to have that seat for that season.

It's the goodwill and good business sense that means the club (in this case Rangers) allow people to renew the same seat. There's absolutely no requirement for them to do it if they didn't want to.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not a lawyer, so this may be a long shot ....

A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew, so I suspect that may be the "personal right" referred to. I'm not sure if this is a contractual right however.

The Ticketus deal has been described as Rangers selling the season tickets for the next four years (three if you believe Whyte), which explains why there is VAT due now and not annually. So it could be that Rangers sold the right to buy a ticket for the same seat each year which they are not entitled to do.

That would make the deal null and void, getting Rangers off the hook for the £4m VAT they are due, but meaning that they owe Ticketus £24m. And since they don't have that money, Whyte's guarantee will be called in.

So Ticketus call in CW's guarantee....

CW calls in his guarantee.... and gets Ibrox.

CW sells Ibrox to pay Ticketus.

Assets stripped.

RFC move to Bellahouston Park

CW is down £18m

Bingo :greengrin

[John_the_angus_hibby]

To be fair to them both, it was Jackson who was talking about CW using the Ticketus money to pay off LBG as long ago as last summer. Traynor has come to it later, but he has been banging that particular drum for a while now and has not been soft on CW

I obviously don't read that rag often enough then! Surprised by Jackson, but fair play to him if that's the case. Cheers for raising that.


Sent from another universe!

[Eyrie]

No it doesn't, it simply entitles them to have that seat for that season.

It's the goodwill and good business sense that means the club (in this case Rangers) allow people to renew the same seat. There's absolutely no requirement for them to do it if they didn't want to.
So it's not a contractual right then. Sinks the rest of my idea :(

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4159301/Second-sale-for-Rangers-director-Dave-King.html



RANGERS director Dave King's multi-million pound vineyard is back on the market — after claims an auction to sell it was rigged.
The sprawling South African estate was seized by officials over a £250million tax bill.

appears to have all the necessary credentials to be the next owner at hunbrox :cb

[greenginger]

Sky Sports News published a list of Rangers employees. Can't make a link but this is the numbers.



First team squad 32
Coaches 11
U/19's 35
Academy coaches 7
Media/PR 13
Marketing 22
Various other pen-pushers 57


Total 177 not including match day


I think there is room for a bit of trimming ! 22 in marketing WTF ?

[Ozyhibby]

Be a bad time to lose folk from marketing just before marching season.

[ian cruise]

By the way out of interest why is Ibrox called Castle Grayskull? Wasn't that He-Man's pad? He-Man was a goody and Grayskull was the power of all things good!! Wasn't Snake Mountain Skeletor's home? On another note He Man had a shan hair do but i wouldn't tell him that.

Possibly my favourite post in Hibs.net history.

[stokesmessiah]

Sky Sports News published a list of Rangers employees. Can't make a link but this is the numbers.



First team squad 32
Coaches 11
U/19's 35
Academy coaches 7
Media/PR 13
Marketing 22
Various other pen-pushers 57


Total 177 not including match day


I think there is room for a bit of trimming ! 22 in marketing WTF ?

What time does this RFC first team cull start at?

[CropleyWasGod]

What time does this RFC first team cull start at?

Yeah, there has been f all news today. C'moan man, I'm pure rattlin' here.

[cabbageandribs1875]

wont be any news today, administrators dont want to detract from the scotland game tonight, understandable even though only one currant bun in the squad :greengrin

[MB62]

I can't get my head around all of this and am probably missing the point, but some questions that seem to simple really.

Has Ticketus bought the rights for £24m to sell seasons tickets to derhun for the next 4 years, meaning all S.T. sales go to them instead of derhun? :confused:

If so, what would happen if knuckledraggers decided not to buy S.T's for the next 4 years and just paid at the gate? Would that leave Ticketus £24m out of pocket as there was no S.T. money for them?

That sounds to simple a solution to derhun to get around the £24m so I'm expecting that not to be the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't get my head around all of this and am probably missing the point, but some questions that seem to simple really.

Has Ticketus bought the rights for £24m to sell seasons tickets to derhun for the next 4 years, meaning all S.T. sales go to them instead of derhun? :confused:

If so, what would happen if knuckledraggers decided not to buy S.T's for the next 4 years and just paid at the gate? Would that leave Ticketus £24m out of pocket as there was no S.T. money for them?

That sounds to simple a solution to derhun to get around the £24m so I'm expecting that not to be the case.

They have bought approx 100k ST's, 25k per season, at a reduced rate. When the punters buy them at the face value, the proceeds are sent on to Ticketus.

So... and I had raised this earlier.... as I understand it, if nobody buys a ST, Ticketus are stiffed. This has two implications:-

1. the club will get the benefit of those 25k walk-ups every season, ie income more than they would have got from ST's, and a LOT more than they would get from Ticketus.

2. Ticketus would then go after CW, who has, according to him, underwritten the deal.

This may help them find a way out, as well as sticking it to CW.....but I don't think they have cottoned on to it yet, so let's just keep it to ourselves, eh? :greengrin

[HibbyRod]

They have bought approx 100k ST's, 25k per season, at a reduced rate. When the punters buy them, the proceeds are sent on to Ticketus.

So... and I had raised this earlier.... as I understand it, if nobody buys a ST, Ticketus are stiffed. This has two implications:-

1. the club will get the benefit of those 25k walk-ups every season, ie income more than they would have got from ST's, and a LOT more than they would get from Ticketus.

2. Ticketus would then go after CW, who has, according to him, underwritten the deal.

This may help them find a way out, as well as sticking it to CW.....but I don't think they have cottoned on to it yet, so let's just keep it to ourselves, eh? :greengrin



Does it not just mean that "Ticketus" spread the sales across the term of the contract? That is, not specifically/necessarily "Season Tickets" but also walk-up tickets that are bought "at the gate" to to get in to Ibrox to sit in an allocated seat?

So, if Rangers sold only 20,000 season tickets in their next season then Ticketus would still get the money for c. 5,000 walk-ups per match and buying a ticket to make up the difference?

[CropleyWasGod]

Does it not just mean that "Ticketus" spread the sales across the term of the contract? That is, not specifically/necessarily "Season Tickets" but also walk-up tickets that are bought "at the gate" to to get in to Ibrox to sit in an allocated seat?

So, if Rangers sold only 20,000 season tickets in their next season then Ticketus would still get the money for c. 5,000 walk-ups per match and buying a ticket to make up the difference?

Pretty sure it's Season Tickets only. The number 100,333 is in my mind.

Not sure, though, if that figure is spread evenly, or whether it's a TOTAL for the four years. ie if only 10,000 are sold in year 1, there are still 90,000 carried forward to years 2-4.

[WeAreHibs]

Rumours are that Durrant has been binned :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

Rumours are that Durrant has been binned :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Heard he's signing for Aberdeen.

[CallumLaidlaw]

So the administrators have found £6m in an account being held by a London solicitors acting on behalf of Craig whyte. The administrators believe it belongs to RFC. The solicitors say they are not obstructing the administrators in any way.

Curiosor and Curiosor!

[CropleyWasGod]

So the administrators have found £6m in an account being held by a London solicitors acting on behalf of Craig whyte. The administrators believe it belongs to RFC. The solicitors say they are not obstructing the administrators in any way.

Curiosor and Curiosor!

Not a surprise really.

The Ticketus £24m, less the £18m paid to Lloyds.

[Bad Martini]

Yep. Except their being drip fed all this ticket revenue will **** up their player buying kitty unless they want to pay by installment .. with their current issues they couldnae even raise a provy cheque.

They would normally buy on strength of season tickets...which, they wont have. So hopefully itll mean they can buy less, win nitto nd go kabooooom!

Ohyadancerye.....ohhhh as ah wis walking doon the copeland road..... :greengrin

MON THE HMRC

[Golden Bear]

Rumours are that Durrant has been binned :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Wise move. They'll make a huge saving in the associated costs of the Club chewing gum.

[Dashing Bob S]

Rumours are that Durrant has been binned :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

He could still make a living renting a certain part of his anatomy.











Maybe not.

[CropleyWasGod]

Goodness, an exodus

Ex-o-dus..... movement o' ra peepul....:singing:

[greenginger]

Thinking back about a year, there was a group of Gers supporters formed an action movement whose slogan was

" We Deserve Better "

I remember them getting interviewed outside Ibrox, incandescent with rage because their Bank was not allowing a huge transfer budget.

I wonder what their slogan is today ? :greengrin We deserve -------? any suggestions

[CropleyWasGod]

..rogering by a bishop. :confused:

[aljo7-0]

what we get

[PatHead]

.....................Craig Whyte and he deserves us

or

.....................no sympathy from anyone as we are ****

[neilmartinrocks]

Thinking back about a year, there was a group of Gers supporters formed an action movement whose slogan was

" We Deserve Better "

I remember them getting interviewed outside Ibrox, incandescent with rage because their Bank was not allowing a huge transfer budget.

I wonder what their slogan is today ? :greengrin We deserve -------? any suggestions

a guid slap in the puss for wir cheek.

[johnrebus]

Thinking back about a year, there was a group of Gers supporters formed an action movement whose slogan was

" We Deserve Better "

I remember them getting interviewed outside Ibrox, incandescent with rage because their Bank was not allowing a huge transfer budget.

I wonder what their slogan is today ? :greengrin We deserve -------? any suggestions



Oblivion.

[alfie]

Thinking back about a year, there was a group of Gers supporters formed an action movement whose slogan was

" We Deserve Better "

I remember them getting interviewed outside Ibrox, incandescent with rage because their Bank was not allowing a huge transfer budget.

I wonder what their slogan is today ? :greengrin We deserve -------? any suggestions
... a news update on redundancies?
Seriously, I've been using this thread to cheer myself up, and there hasn't been any good news for days now. Isn't it time for some slash and burn techniques Duff & Phelps? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

... a news update on redundancies?
Seriously, I've been using this thread to cheer myself up, and there hasn't been any good news for days now. Isn't it time for some slash and burn techniques Duff & Phelps? :confused:

Patience, good sir, I feel it's just warming up.

One more big pay-day for RFC this weekend, and then.... KABOOM.

And don't forget.... once this saga is over, we have the main feature of Slaughter on Ardmillan Avenue :greengrin

[Mikeystewart]

Have the administrators had the meeting with players yet about cuts in playing staff?

[johnrebus]

Patience, good sir, I feel it's just warming up.

One more big pay-day for RFC this weekend, and then.... KABOOM.

And don't forget.... once this saga is over, we have the main feature of Slaughter on Ardmillan Avenue :greengrin


McLeod Street, surely?


:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

McLeod Street, surely?


:confused:

The music is Slaughter on Tenth Avenue..... and I couldn't think of any other avenues anywhere near :greengrin

Nightmare on McLeod Street works though....

[PaulSmith]

Quite ironic that followfollow appear to be conducting a concerted campaign against Collyer Bristow by bombarding them with emails, calling them and hanging up and when you click on the Collyerbristow web page you are met with "How to they deal with Cyber Harassment and how they can help"...I wonder if they are currently preparing a case against the FF admin team :greengrin

http://www.collyerbristow.com/

[CropleyWasGod]

Quite ironic that followfollow appear to be conducting a concerted campaign against Collyer Bristow by bombarding them with emails, calling them and hanging up and when you click on the Collyerbristow web page you are met with "How to they deal with Cyber Harassment and how they can help"...I wonder if they are currently preparing a case against the FF admin team :greengrin

http://www.collyerbristow.com/

... and some people call our admin pricks bad?... :greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Patience, good sir, I feel it's just warming up.

One more big pay-day for RFC this weekend, and then.... KABOOM.

And don't forget.... once this saga is over, we have the main feature of Slaughter on Ardmillan Avenue :greengrin

Still a huge number of things to come to light, including:

On what authority do Craigie White's London lawyers hold a mandate over undistributed funds? Who is the real owner?

If the Ticketius deal was to be set aside, does that not mean that Lloyds/HBOS received their paydown via illegal funds and so should as well be set aside?

Would it not be total anathema for Ticketus to be bumped out and yet Lloyd escape free??

Then again, there is the issue of the asset sale to T, which is surely legitimate in the normal course of business, as has been the outcome in a number of cases. If the T deal goes wrong in this case, does that not invalidate T's deals with other footie clubs??

[johnrebus]

The music is Slaughter on Tenth Avenue..... and I couldn't think of any other avenues anywhere near :greengrin

Nightmare on McLeod Street works though....



Now, is that from the ballet of the same name, or the album by the late Mick Ronson?


:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Now, is that from the ballet of the same name, or the album by the late Mick Ronson?


:cb

Both... :agree: It's a wonderful piece of music, and Ronno did it justice.

[CropleyWasGod]

Still a huge number of things to come to light, including:

On what authority do Craigie White's London lawyers hold a mandate over undistributed funds? Who is the real owner?

If the Ticketius deal was to be set aside, does that not mean that Lloyds/HBOS received their paydown via illegal funds and so should as well be set aside?

Would it not be total anathema for Ticketus to be bumped out and yet Lloyd escape free??

Then again, there is the issue of the asset sale to T, which is surely legitimate in the normal course of business, as has been the outcome in a number of cases. If the T deal goes wrong in this case, does that not invalidate T's deals with other footie clubs??

Steady, AH... I am hearing the Soap theme again. :greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Steady, AH... I am hearing the Soap theme again. :greengrin

:greengrin Aye, that's a wee bit of magic!

Oh, and I am still convinced that former and current RFC directors could (should?) be found guilty of wrongful trading!! Maybe not fair on the likes of J Greig (who should never have been a director in the first place), but CW and his associates don't have much room to manouvre??

[Twa Cairpets]

Pretty sure it's Season Tickets only. The number 100,333 is in my mind.

Not sure, though, if that figure is spread evenly, or whether it's a TOTAL for the four years. ie if only 10,000 are sold in year 1, there are still 90,000 carried forward to years 2-4.

You would also think that ticketus will own the seats, so if it's 25k seats per season the Hun can't sell them as they are already bought. The Hun can't sell them to the unwashed hordes just turning up.

[ancienthibby]

You would also think that ticketus will own the seats, so if it's 25k seats per season the Hun can't sell them as they are already bought. The Hun can't sell them to the unwashed hordes just turning up.

There's a potential lovely irony here, TC!

If Ticketus do legally own the seat tickets (which ST buyers would own for a season) then do they not have the right to sell the spaces where the seats are??

If they do not, then RFC could re-sell the 'space' that the ST seats take up, but not the seats themselves, so we'd be left with a 48K SRO stadium at Ipox??:devil:

Not advocating it, of course, but it does set you thinking!

[Hibernia&Alba]

I do hope that one of the admin team will change the title of this thread to 'Rangers Liquidated' if and when the time comes. There aren't enough smilies in the world that could capture the moment!

[s.a.m]

I do hope that one of the admin team will change the title of this thread to 'Rangers Liquidated' if and when the time comes. There aren't enough smilies in the world that could capture the moment!

It also conjures up a nice, mental picture.......

[Viva_Palmeiras]

With apologies to Frank Sinatra...:greengrin


Rangers stuffed by Whyte
The fans are all nervous
Rangers in the [rhymes with "light"]
It could be curtains
Something dont seem right
Rangers are in the [rhymes with "light"]


Do-be-do they're screwed
De-do-be-do-be
Do-be-do they're screwed

[PaulSmith]

Pars only able to pay 60% wages to their own players, Alan Preston hinting that rangers due money causing problems

[CropleyWasGod]

Pars only able to pay 60% wages to their own players, Alan Preston hinting that rangers due money causing problems

That's bound to be an issue, but I can't help thinking DAFC were struggling anyway. Poor crowds.... the closing of the stand....they have lost £1.5m in the past two seasons.... the writing was on the wall, but the RFC debt has probably pushed them too far.

Sometimes relegation can be good for a club, and it may be what DAFC "need". Get rid of the highest earners, start again with kids.

I hope they survive, even if they have to go part-time.

[stokesmessiah]

That's bound to be an issue, but I can't help thinking DAFC were struggling anyway. Poor crowds.... the closing of the stand.... the writing was on the wall, but the RFC debt has probably pushed them too far.

Sometimes relegation can be good for a club, and it may be what DAFC "need". Get rid of the highest earners, start again with kids.

I hope they survive, even if they have to go part-time.

Cropley what really annoys me about this whole situation is since it has cropped up i have (sorry) kept an eye on the Rangers forums, mainly The Bears Den and the attitude from people on there makes me sick. Its full of comments like "f*** them if they dont want us then lets join League 2 in England" or "I just dont understand the hatred from the rest of the SPL when we made the league what it is".

Clearly they just cant see why ppl might be angry with them cheating not only scottish football but also the ordinary tax payer then they are more stupid than i ever gave them credit for.

I hope the worst happens to them i really do and in all honesty if that has a knock on effect for the rest of Scottish Football then so be it. Football in this country is dying on its arse anyway so something has to change and if that something is those ****my gits going out of business then i am a happier man.

[cabbageandribs1875]

apparently david healey is only one game away from triggering a clause for a 12 month extension

[SteveHFC]

Cropley what really annoys me about this whole situation is since it has cropped up i have (sorry) kept an eye on the Rangers forums, mainly The Bears Den and the attitude from people on there makes me sick. Its full of comments like "f*** them if they dont want us then lets join League 2 in England" or "I just dont understand the hatred from the rest of the SPL when we made the league what it is".

Clearly they just cant see why ppl might be angry with them cheating not only scottish football but also the ordinary tax payer then they are more stupid than i ever gave them credit for.

I hope the worst happens to them i really do and in all honesty if that has a knock on effect for the rest of Scottish Football then so be it. Football in this country is dying on its arse anyway so something has to change and if that something is those ****my gits going out of business then i am a happier man.

This :aok:

[PaulSmith]

Can you sign player released through administration?
If so Neil Alexander would be ideal for us IMO

[bingo70]

Can you sign player released through administration?
If so Neil Alexander would be ideal for us IMO

Think from memory with the gretna situation the answer to that is technically no, however if they appeal to uefa they may be allowed.

Might be talking pish with that though

[Part/Time Supporter]

Cropley what really annoys me about this whole situation is since it has cropped up i have (sorry) kept an eye on the Rangers forums, mainly The Bears Den and the attitude from people on there makes me sick. Its full of comments like "f*** them if they dont want us then lets join League 2 in England" or "I just dont understand the hatred from the rest of the SPL when we made the league what it is".

Clearly they just cant see why ppl might be angry with them cheating not only scottish football but also the ordinary tax payer then they are more stupid than i ever gave them credit for.

I hope the worst happens to them i really do and in all honesty if that has a knock on effect for the rest of Scottish Football then so be it. Football in this country is dying on its arse anyway so something has to change and if that something is those ****my gits going out of business then i am a happier man.

Probably because most "the people" on those sites are stupid laddies who think that football didn't exist before Sky (or, in Rangers' case, Souness).

[shagpile]

Pars only able to pay 60% wages to their own players, Alan Preston hinting that rangers due money causing problems

If that is true, then Dunfermline are sailing close to the wind too. A real hand to mouth existence.

[ancienthibby]

If that is true, then Dunfermline are sailing close to the wind too. A real hand to mouth existence.

Beeb Radio just reported that the Dunfy story is true.

Also that Daily Rankger saying that 11 players are to go from Castle Greyskull, plus all others will have to take substantial wage cuts.

I'll get a link if I can....

[Www1875hfc]

Beeb Radio just reported that the Dunfy story is true.

Also that Daily Rankger saying that 11 players are to go from Castle Greyskull, plus all others will have to take substantial wage cuts.

I'll get a link if I can....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/01/rangers-in-crisis-11-ibrox-players-set-to-be-axed-as-administrators-begin-savage-cuts-86908-23770531/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Papac and Alexander are 2 of the players most likely to be axed at Rangers. McCulloch is also singled out.

[ancienthibby]

Beeb Radio just reported that the Dunfy story is true.

Also that Daily Rankger saying that 11 players are to go from Castle Greyskull, plus all others will have to take substantial wage cuts.

I'll get a link if I can....

Here's what the Hootsmon is saying, 7 to go they day.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers_administration_neil_alexander_and_sasa_pap ac_among_those_facing_axe_1_2145982

[ancienthibby]

Here's what the Hootsmon is saying, 7 to go they day.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers_administration_neil_alexander_and_sasa_pap ac_among_those_facing_axe_1_2145982

Here is the DR story:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/03/01/rangers-in-crisis-11-ibrox-players-set-to-be-axed-as-administrators-begin-savage-cuts-86908-23770531/

[Gettin' Auld]

Here's what the Hootsmon is saying, 7 to go they day.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers_administration_neil_alexander_and_sasa_pap ac_among_those_facing_axe_1_2145982

Just heard that they're releasing 11 players and the ones who aren't being released must take a 50% wage cut. :greengrin

It was on Radio Scotland though, so it could well be a load of bollox!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Just heard that they're releasing 11 players and the ones who aren't being released must take a 50% wage cut. :greengrin

It was on Radio Scotland though, so it could well be a load of bollox!

Whatever the numbers, it's inevitable that a club in administration has to make drastic savings, including in relation to players. It will be interesting to see which of them are released immediately and which are sold on when the transfer window opens. Happy days.

[alfie]

The only downside of the cull, and the consequent doom and gloom at Murray Park is that they face the Yams on Saturday which could gift them points, which nobody wants to see!

[alfie]

Patience, good sir, I feel it's just warming up.

One more big pay-day for RFC this weekend, and then.... KABOOM.

And don't forget.... once this saga is over, we have the main feature of Slaughter on Ardmillan Avenue :greengrin

And then I log in this morning to find out that 11 are being released and the rest are taking a 50% pay cut. :woohoo:

You see this is what we want, a good news story to start the day! My contract runs out on Monday, and I've just been told it's not getting renewed, so I'm out of work next week, but who cares?! :hyper:

[dangermouse]

With regard to the Ticketus money, did the £24M not include an additional loan of £6M to pay back some of the original load that CW/RFC couldn't afford at the time?

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting quotes from HMRC in this article from yesterday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17213691

[GreenPJ]

If that is true, then Dunfermline are sailing close to the wind too. A real hand to mouth existence.

This will only further their argument that Scottish football need a healthy Rangers.

[bingo70]

This will only further their argument that Scottish football need a healthy Rangers.

I think the current set up requires a healthy old firm, however i think what people want is a revamped set up with a more equal share of money, a more competitive league and a bigger league so that smaller teams have got a chance of winning more games.

I don't have a clue how many games dunfermline have won this season but possibly about 5 or 6? of course they aren't going to have a big fan base as they could do, i bet if they were playing against more clubs of a similar standard and won more games this season they'd get more fans back IMO.

[greenginger]

Interesting quotes from HMRC in this article from yesterday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17213691


The statement is almost word for word a copy of the statement they issued about Rangers. Hope they are going to stick to their guns especially in the Huns case.

[Kato]

Football in this country is dying on its arse anyway so something has to change and if that something is those ****my gits going out of business then i am a happier man.

Very true. Rather than slowly fading away it would be good to have something to fight for.

[cad]

Dunfy have had a double whammy £80,000 from Rangers and a postponed home game that cost them £50,000, against Killie , they run a very tight ship ,they pay there bills infact the amount due to HMRC is only £44,000 a couple of high earners wages at Ibrox .

Dundee Utd are due £100,000 ,who because of the situation they are in could decide to handle all ticket sales themselves when Rangers visit Tannadice in a week or so.

Rangers IMO dont give a toss about anybody else , there supporters more so ,I just think that someone maybe even the SFA should be looking out for the 2 teams affected by this scenario rather the the club that caused it all.

When are the The Suits going to come out with something regarding the situation the kick-on effect to the rest of the countries football clubs , there silence has been deafening ,or are they just waiting to see what happens at Ibrox , then work around it anyway they can to accomdation them ,which is what I believe may very well happen .

[CropleyWasGod]

With regard to the Ticketus money, did the £24M not include an additional loan of £6M to pay back some of the original load that CW/RFC couldn't afford at the time?

It was explained to me (about 30 pages ago :greengrin) that the £24m was supposed to cover 3 years, starting with the current season. The first payment of £6m to Ticketus was due at the start of this season, but RFC couldn't make it. So the deal was extended to 4 years.

[MB62]

Dunfy have had a double whammy £80,000 from Rangers and a postponed home game that cost them £50,000, against Killie , they run a very tight ship ,they pay there bills infact the amount due to HMRC is only £44,000 a couple of high earners wages at Ibrox .

Dundee Utd are due £100,000 ,who because of the situation they are in could decide to handle all ticket sales themselves when Rangers visit Tannadice in a week or so.

Rangers IMO dont give a toss about anybody else , there supporters more so ,I just think that someone maybe even the SFA should be looking out for the 2 teams affected by this scenario rather the the club that caused it all.

When are the The Suits going to come out with something regarding the situation the kick-on effect to the rest of the countries football clubs , there silence has been deafening ,or are they just waiting to see what happens at Ibrox , then work around it anyway they can to accomdation them ,which is what I believe may very well happen .


You can bet your house on that being the case. Derhun will come out of this smelling of roses, of that I have no doubt.

[CropleyWasGod]

Dunfy have had a double whammy £80,000 from Rangers and a postponed home game that cost them £50,000, against Killie , they run a very tight ship ,they pay there bills infact the amount due to HMRC is only £44,000 a couple of high earners wages at Ibrox .

Dundee Utd are due £100,000 ,who because of the situation they are in could decide to handle all ticket sales themselves when Rangers visit Tannadice in a week or so.

Rangers IMO dont give a toss about anybody else , there supporters more so ,I just think that someone maybe even the SFA should be looking out for the 2 teams affected by this scenario rather the the club that caused it all.

When are the The Suits going to come out with something regarding the situation the kick-on effect to the rest of the countries football clubs , there silence has been deafening ,or are they just waiting to see what happens at Ibrox , then work around it anyway they can to accomdation them ,which is what I believe may very well happen .

Lord Nimmo Smith? :confused:

[EuanH78]

This will only further their argument that Scottish football need a healthy Rangers.

Only as a surface analysis it looks like that, a proper root cause analysis would easily spot that the problem lies in the dwindling crowds of the SPL in it's entirety. A situation that has been pored over a hundred times on here but bullet point



small and uncompetitive league
uneven distribution of wealth
11 -1 voting system inhibiting fairness
unwillingness of governing body to promote fairness and parity of all member clubs
Pandering to TV companies re: scheduling, alienating fans


Just for starters, what I find incredible is media fuds bemoaning the state of the Scottish game and yet arguing for the status quo with regards to needing the huns, cause and effect IMO and I'm looking at you Traynor....twat.

[CropleyWasGod]

Only as a surface analysis it looks like that, a proper root cause analysis would easily spot that the problem lies in the dwindling crowds of the SPL in it's entirety. A situation that has been pored over a hundred times on here but bullet point



small and uncompetitive league
uneven distribution of wealth
11 -1 voting system inhibiting fairness
unwillingness of governing body to promote fairness and parity of all member clubs
Pandering to TV companies re: scheduling, alienating fans


Just for starters, what I find incredible is media fuds bemoaning the state of the Scottish game and yet arguing for the status quo with regards to needing the huns, cause and effect IMO and I'm looking at you Traynor....twat.

Is this Jim Traynor, who has been calling for the changing of the 11-1 system?

[GreenPJ]

Only as a surface analysis it looks like that, a proper root cause analysis would easily spot that the problem lies in the dwindling crowds of the SPL in it's entirety. A situation that has been pored over a hundred times on here but bullet point



small and uncompetitive league
uneven distribution of wealth
11 -1 voting system inhibiting fairness
unwillingness of governing body to promote fairness and parity of all member clubs
Pandering to TV companies re: scheduling, alienating fans


Just for starters, what I find incredible is media fuds bemoaning the state of the Scottish game and yet arguing for the status quo with regards to needing the huns, cause and effect IMO and I'm looking at you Traynor....twat.

I agree with all of that though the here and now is that if the club did not have the debt it has a drop in crowds could be managed by wage caps, limited squad size etc. The problem is they have a debt they have to service and the lenders in the current environment are not in a mood to be generous. The root cause of the problems as you listed above have to be addressed but the problem I still have is that the Clubs who have to have some say in what a workable structure is going forward have the noose of debt around their neck and any decision they make is going to be taken with that being the primary consideration.

We need a Greekesque debt write-off for all clubs but it ain't going to happen. How much is in the SPL coffers?

I do think as you rightly point out there are people who have been on the governing body who have been negligent in the extreme for a number of years.

[Keith_M]

And then I log in this morning to find out that 11 are being released and the rest are taking a 50% pay cut. :woohoo:

You see this is what we want, a good news story to start the day! My contract runs out on Monday, and I've just been told it's not getting renewed, so I'm out of work next week, but who cares?! :hyper:


You get a Contract for selling pegs nowadays? How times have changed.

[EuanH78]

Is this Jim Traynor, who has been calling for the changing of the 11-1 system?

Must have missed that Cropley, to be fair to me though it must be a recent change from his 'all things OF' sycophancy (i think I just made that word up) and he's still a fud anyway.

[EuanH78]

I agree with all of that though the here and now is that if the club did not have the debt it has a drop in crowds could be managed by wage caps, limited squad size etc. The problem is they have a debt they have to service and the lenders in the current environment are not in a mood to be generous. The root cause of the problems as you listed above have to be addressed but the problem I still have is that the Clubs who have to have some say in what a workable structure is going forward have the noose of debt around their neck and any decision they make is going to be taken with that being the primary consideration.

We need a Greekesque debt write-off for all clubs but it ain't going to happen. How much is in the SPL coffers?

I do think as you rightly point out there are people who have been on the governing body who have been negligent in the extreme for a number of years.

I cant argue against what you say as I agree, but the alternative is the status quo which is totally unworkable. Luckily I think there are enough clubs that could take the haircut (not painlessly I might add) Hibs being one of them, to give this a chance of change being pushed through.

[bingo70]

Chris Mclaughlin from the BBC has said on twitter that it'll be tomorrow before players are released.

[brydekirk]

Can you sign player released through administration?
If so Neil Alexander would be ideal for us IMO

Must agree, N A would be a good signing

[GreenPJ]

Chris Mclaughlin from the BBC has said on twitter that it'll be tomorrow before players are released.

Could this be a delay in the hope that they get access to the £6M in CW's lawyers account?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Could this be a delay in the hope that they get access to the £6M in CW's lawyers account?

No, they're negotiating with McCoist in terms of who gets the heave.

[Mikeystewart]

Could this be a delay in the hope that they get access to the £6M in CW's lawyers account?

https://twitter.com/#!/BBCchrismclaug

Just in case anyone wanted a link

[PatHead]

Rangers supporter here in the office saying "they (the government) could have given some of the money "they wasted" on the Titian to help Rangers out".
Really, who do they think they are?

Still hasn't sunk in that
1. the mess is of their own making,
2. It has not suddenly happened and is not Ticketus/all Whyte's fault
2. no-one owes them anything
3. No-one, apart from Rangers supporters, wants them saved or thinks they should be treated as a special case

Sad thing is he is normally a level headed guy.

Doubt I will rush along to see the artwork in question but if it kept the money out of Rangers' hands it was well spent!

[PatHead]

Ticketus released a fresh statement today. Doesn't say much but detailed below:-

1 March 2012 - Statement regarding Rangers Football Club
Following a meeting yesterday with Rangers Football Club's (the "Club" or "Rangers") administrators Duff & Phelps, Ticketus would like to state its desire for a rapid and successful conclusion to the Club's administration process and confirm its willingness to enter into discussions with any serious potential bidders for the Club.
We met with the administrators yesterday to make it clear that we intend to be part of a solution for the Club, and to ensure a fast and fair resolution is achieved for all parties. We outlined that this includes working with potential purchasers to help provide various financing solutions to the Club that would be attractive to new owners.
Ticketus believes that the best outcome for Rangers, its fans, Ticketus and our investors is for the administration process to be concluded as soon as possible, with a purchaser found who is able to bring stability to the Club.
Ticketus has an obligation to its investors to pursue all avenues to ensure that the ticket purchase agreement it entered into with the Club is honoured, and we are committed to going to the lengths necessary to ensure that the future of the Club is preserved and its agreement with Ticketus fulfilled. We believe that our investors' interests are aligned to those looking to safeguard the Club's future.
We have already been in contact with a number of other key stakeholders, including potential bidders and fans' representatives, and believe working collaboratively with all parties to create a solution for the Club that puts it on a secure financial footing must be everyone's priority.
Ticketus looks forward to continuing to work with the administrators and serious potential bidders to secure a positive outcome for the Club.

[johnrebus]

Ticketus released a fresh statement today. Doesn't say much but detailed below:-

1 March 2012 - Statement regarding Rangers Football Club
Following a meeting yesterday with Rangers Football Club's (the "Club" or "Rangers") administrators Duff & Phelps, Ticketus would like to state its desire for a rapid and successful conclusion to the Club's administration process and confirm its willingness to enter into discussions with any serious potential bidders for the Club.
We met with the administrators yesterday to make it clear that we intend to be part of a solution for the Club, and to ensure a fast and fair resolution is achieved for all parties. We outlined that this includes working with potential purchasers to help provide various financing solutions to the Club that would be attractive to new owners.
Ticketus believes that the best outcome for Rangers, its fans, Ticketus and our investors is for the administration process to be concluded as soon as possible, with a purchaser found who is able to bring stability to the Club.
Ticketus has an obligation to its investors to pursue all avenues to ensure that the ticket purchase agreement it entered into with the Club is honoured, and we are committed to going to the lengths necessary to ensure that the future of the Club is preserved and its agreement with Ticketus fulfilled. We believe that our investors' interests are aligned to those looking to safeguard the Club's future.
We have already been in contact with a number of other key stakeholders, including potential bidders and fans' representatives, and believe working collaboratively with all parties to create a solution for the Club that puts it on a secure financial footing must be everyone's priority.
Ticketus looks forward to continuing to work with the administrators and serious potential bidders to secure a positive outcome for the Club.



Hmmmmm.

In other words, 'we are sh*tting ourselves that we are about to kiss twenty four million quid goodbye'.

:cb

[ano hibby]

Could someone please remind me when we are expected to hear the outcome of the 'big tax case'. Ta

This presumably is the key to the timing of new owners, when the club comes out of admin etc..?

[johnrebus]

Only as a surface analysis it looks like that, a proper root cause analysis would easily spot that the problem lies in the dwindling crowds of the SPL in it's entirety. A situation that has been pored over a hundred times on here but bullet point



small and uncompetitive league
uneven distribution of wealth
11 -1 voting system inhibiting fairness
unwillingness of governing body to promote fairness and parity of all member clubs
Pandering to TV companies re: scheduling, alienating fans


Just for starters, what I find incredible is media fuds bemoaning the state of the Scottish game and yet arguing for the status quo with regards to needing the huns, cause and effect IMO and I'm looking at you Traynor....twat.

Traynor has to toe this line because of his position with the Daily Record. Their circulation is going down faster than piss down a plughole, he can't afford to upset the blue nose half of Scotland.

I can understand his position, but IMHO he should not be fronting a BBC Radio programme, with such a biased viewpoint. Mind you, nobody on Sportsound has the bottle to stand up and say that it would be best for Rangers to go under, and I doubt that any potential caller to their phone in programmes with that view, get anywhere near airtime.

:rolleyes:

[ancienthibby]

Beeb Radio reporting that D&P have released a statement saying no announcement today on redundancies.

I guess the numbers still don't stack up?

[Andy74]

Traynor has to toe this line because of his position with the Daily Record. Their circulation is going down faster than piss down a plughole, he can't afford to upset the blue nose half of Scotland.

I can understand his position, but IMHO he should not be fronting a BBC Radio programme, with such a biased viewpoint. Mind you, nobody on Sportsound has the bottle to stand up and say that it would be best for Rangers to go under, and I doubt that any potential caller to their phone in programmes with that view, get anywhere near airtime.

:rolleyes:

No surprise but the quality of debate in the media on this topic is awful.

The only line I've heard taken is that we would all miss the TV money. That's far too simplistic and ignores the fact that we have the TV money now and the league is a shambles.

I haven't seen any decent analysis done of how the fans of the other clubs would react and turn out to watch more meaningful games at the top end of the league and whether we would accept a slightly lower standard of player, if it came to it, to gain a more competitive and compelling league.

[Hibs Class]

No, they're negotiating with McCoist in terms of who gets the heave.

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

[bingo70]

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

Could they not argue that finishing second instead of third would mean so much difference in tv income and possible european income (if they come out of admin in time) then they need to decide how strong a squad they need to keep to ensure they finish second, they'll also need advice on what players are likely to be able to attract transfer income in the summer.

Don't disagree with you but i'm imagining thats the way they're looking at it

[Andy74]

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

You could argue with Rangers though that they still have a potential up side of keeping a team together in prize money and possibly European football depending on timings so may not be quite as simple as straight off cutting costs.

[Part/Time Supporter]

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

They need to get a certain wage figure, but there's different ways of doing it. You could have more redundancies and no wage cut, or less redundancies and a big wage cut.

[Sylar]

Could they not argue that finishing second instead of third would mean so much difference in tv income and possible european income (if they come out of admin in time) then they need to decide how strong a squad they need to keep to ensure they finish second, they'll also need advice on what players are likely to be able to attract transfer income in the summer.

Don't disagree with you but i'm imagining thats the way they're looking at it

I'd imagine it's a bit of a balancing act between this and identifying the most sellable assets.

Rifling off the highest earners might earn them a "quick buck" but finishing as high up the league and securing as much prize money and potential revenue for the following season will be a long-term option for the administrators, surely?

[JeMeSouviens]

Hmmmmm.

In other words, 'we are sh*tting ourselves that we are about to kiss twenty four million quid goodbye'.

:cb

... or alternatively ... "we are about to take possession of your ground and training park but don't want to seem like we didn't explore other possibilities first."

[EuanH78]

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

I'm with you on this, I see the arguements for but I dont see how they make any difference in the cold light of it. How Rangers fare in the league is uncertain and any attempts by the administrators to 'speculate to accumulate' raise some serious doubts IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

The investigation of third party contracts currently underway by the SFA means that rangers are unlikely to receive any prize money this year and will almost certainly face relegation.

[Andy74]

The investigation of third party contracts currently underway by the SFA means that rangers are unlikely to receive any prize money this year and will almost certainly face relegation.

Must have missed this bit? What's this about?

[Hank Schrader]

The investigation of third party contracts currently underway by the SFA means that rangers are unlikely to receive any prize money this year and will almost certainly face relegation.

Hunch or based on info you have?

[bingo70]

Must have missed this bit? What's this about?

Think there's a thread about it on the PM board, was mentioned on the Jim Traynor phone in, if it's the same story I think they've basically been giving players two contracts and UEFA rules are quite strict on this.

if its a completely different story apologies for talking pish

[Ozyhibby]

Must have missed this bit? What's this about?

Davis, Whittaker and mcgregor signed their new contracts with Wavetower plc which is against SFA and uefa rules.
While the SFA would normally find a way to let this slip as it's rangers uefa are watching the situation closely and recently threatened to ban Switzerland from international football for not dealing harshly enough with sion fc who were up to the same racket.
Spartans were kicked out of this years Scottish cup for failing to register a player properly, which gives an indication of the precedent set when it comes to contract irregularities.

[bingo70]

Chris McLaughlin has been posting on twitter about it again, apparently running cost till the end of the season are £10m and there's a £4.5m shortfall, will either be 8 redundancies with 50% pay cut across the board or no redundancies with a 75% pay cut across the board

[Andy74]

Davis, Whittaker and mcgregor signed their new contracts with Wavetower plc which is against SFA and uefa rules.
While the SFA would normally find a way to let this slip as it's rangers uefa are watching the situation closely and recently threatened to ban Switzerland from international football for not dealing harshly enough with sion fc who were up to the same racket.
Spartans were kicked out of this years Scottish cup for failing to register a player properly, which gives an indication of the precedent set when it comes to contract irregularities.

I'm sorry to hear that. :greengrin

[aljo7-0]

I'm sorry to hear that. :greengrin

999 - Fire brigade please - I'd like to report an underwear fire.

[ancienthibby]

Davis, Whittaker and mcgregor signed their new contracts with Wavetower plc which is against SFA and uefa rules.
While the SFA would normally find a way to let this slip as it's rangers uefa are watching the situation closely and recently threatened to ban Switzerland from international football for not dealing harshly enough with sion fc who were up to the same racket.
Spartans were kicked out of this years Scottish cup for failing to register a player properly, which gives an indication of the precedent set when it comes to contract irregularities.

Now that would be quite something - if true!

Care to share your source/knowledge??

[Haymaker]

Every time I come on this thread something new has happened... i really cant keep up.

[EuanH78]

Every time I come on this thread something new has happened... i really cant keep up.

When all this comes to some sort of end, this surely has to be a 'vault' thread :agree:

[Haymaker]

When all this comes to some sort of end, this surely has to be a 'vault' thread :agree:

:agree: Without doubt.

[Hibs Class]

They need to get a certain wage figure, but there's different ways of doing it. You could have more redundancies and no wage cut, or less redundancies and a big wage cut.

They need to cut costs to the maximum extent they can, especially if they are currently projecting a further shortfall of c.£4.5m over the remainder of this season. i.e. cutting costs is their priority and what that might do to their final league position or how upset it might make McCoist, or anything else, are all secondary considerations. Every day that they make no cuts is another day where they have lost more money which means less money available to their creditors. And another day of no doubt astronomical administrator fees.

[Seveno]

They need to cut costs to the maximum extent they can, especially if they are currently projecting a further shortfall of c.£4.5m over the remainder of this season. i.e. cutting costs is their priority and what that might do to their final league position or how upset it might make McCoist, or anything else, are all secondary considerations. Every day that they make no cuts is another day where they have lost more money which means less money available to their creditors. And another day of no doubt astronomical administrator fees.

Presumably, creditors either have the right to sue them for not conducting the administration in correctly, or go to the courts to have them dismissed ?

[greenginger]

Chris McLaughlin has been posting on twitter about it again, apparently running cost till the end of the season are £10m and there's a £4.5m shortfall, will either be 8 redundancies with 50% pay cut across the board or no redundancies with a 75% pay cut across the board


They are expecting an income of £5.5 million between now and the end of the season. Remaining home fixtures before the split are Hearts, Celtic and St Mirren, and two games after the split.

Even with TV rights and adds,sponsorship etc they are very optimistic or are they going to void the season tickets and assume that they will get a full house of paying customers ?

[StevieC]

... or alternatively ... "we are about to take possession of your ground and training park but don't want to seem like we didn't explore other possibilities first."

I reckon it's the original theory .. Ticketus are seriously worried that liquidation means they can kiss goodbye to their £24m. It's in their best interest to keep the club alive, even if that means part funding a takeover bid that guarantees to keep the club out of liquidation.

[blindsummit]

I reckon it's the original theory .. Ticketus are seriously worried that liquidation means they can kiss goodbye to their £24m. It's in their best interest to keep the club alive, even if that means part funding a takeover bid that guarantees to keep the club out of liquidation.

Why don't Ticketus just buy them? Then they would only owe the money to themselves, which seems to be a popular business model in certain parts :greengrin

[Onion]

Pars only able to pay 60% wages to their own players, Alan Preston hinting that rangers due money causing problems

Rangers should be FORCED by the SFA (via the Administrators if necessary) to pay off their debts to other SPL clubs BEFORE they start thinking about future earnings. It appears from their behaviour so far that the Administrators are doing all they can to help the Huns keep their better players - paying their players higher wages than anyone other than Celtic - yet you have a team like DAFC struggling to even operate because of the Huns immoral activities.

A 10 point deduction doesn't come close to being a reasonable punishment !

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers should be FORCED by the SFA (via the Administrators if necessary) to pay off their debts to other SPL clubs BEFORE they start thinking about future earnings. It appears from their behaviour so far that the Administrators are doing all they can to help the Huns keep their better players - paying their players higher wages than anyone other than Celtic - yet you have a team like DAFC struggling to even operate because of the Huns immoral activities.

A 10 point deduction doesn't come close to being a reasonable punishment !

Why should football clubs come before the tax man, the police, the local council, the local plumber? They don't have the cash to pay them all.

[CropleyWasGod]

I reckon it's the original theory .. Ticketus are seriously worried that liquidation means they can kiss goodbye to their £24m. It's in their best interest to keep the club alive, even if that means part funding a takeover bid that guarantees to keep the club out of liquidation.

It also undermines the story that CW told (... :greengrin) that he had personally guaranteed the deal.

[CropleyWasGod]

They are expecting an income of £5.5 million between now and the end of the season. Remaining home fixtures before the split are Hearts, Celtic and St Mirren, and two games after the split.

Even with TV rights and adds,sponsorship etc they are very optimistic or are they going to void the season tickets and assume that they will get a full house of paying customers ?

They will probably get a good gate this weekend, with the chance to say goodbye to some players. They will get a full house against Celtic, no matter what team they put out.

That is why I think the admins have made the right choice about the timing of the player cuts.

[ancienthibby]

It also undermines the story that CW told (... :greengrin) that he had personally guaranteed the deal.

Maybe not quite so, Mr C, since Craikie White said he had given guarantees and cash to make the deal happen.

The cash pledged won't be worthless:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe not quite so, Mr C, since Craikie White said he had given guarantees and cash to make the deal happen.

The cash pledged won't be worthless:greengrin

The point I was making was in response to the POV that Ticketus are scared of losing their £24m if RFC go into liquidation. If they are so scared, it suggests that CW was talking Whyte. (as if....:rolleyes:)

[Leithenhibby]

Davis, Whittaker and mcgregor signed their new contracts with Wavetower plc which is against SFA and uefa rules.
While the SFA would normally find a way to let this slip as it's rangers uefa are watching the situation closely and recently threatened to ban Switzerland from international football for not dealing harshly enough with sion fc who were up to the same racket.
Spartans were kicked out of this years Scottish cup for failing to register a player properly, which gives an indication of the precedent set when it comes to contract irregularities.


I am pretty much certain that DAFC would be more than happy if that was the outcome :pray::pray::pray:

http://uk.soccerway.com/national/switzerland/super-league/2011-2012/regular-season/

[EuanH78]

I am pretty much certain that DAFC would be more than happy if that was the outcome :pray::pray::pray:

http://uk.soccerway.com/national/switzerland/super-league/2011-2012/regular-season/

Not just DAFC, I think I might literally pish myself laughing.

So on top of administration and the big tax case ruling, Rangers may get charged with fielding ineligible players as well? I assume this would mean any results they have 'won' being overturned and a further points deduction (this season or next) making relegation a near certainty?

Actually looks like liquidation would be the best thing for them if that all falls out. Personally hope they stay afloat and are crippled for years upon years but either way is a win I suppose :greengrin

[McD]

It really makes you wonder who is running this administration. It's a financial decision, not a footballing decision. It's got sod all to do with Sally and the length of time it's taking to cut these costs raises questions about the competence, partiality and integrity of the administrators.

Certainly does raise questions, particularly when we consider that pretty much every other club thats gone into administration has announced redundancies almost immediately, but here we are weeks later and still nothing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17221172

No direct quotes from McCoist in this article, but if its true, it shows how pathetic and detached from the real world he really is, when he is pushing D&P to make bigger redundancies from non-playing staff in order to keep more of the players on board. The very people who would struggle to survive should they be made redundant (and not to mention are blameless in this whole affair, and not been benefiting from the alleged 2 contracts stuff) are the ones Sally wants out in order to keep the highly paid and much more likely to survive without immediate income tossers.

The whole thing beggars belief......thats not to say I'm not enjoying the show :wink:

[ancient hibee]

If players have signed contracts with Wavetower the SFA should already know because contracts have to be registered with them.

Ticketus seem to have made the the biggest brown trouser boob of all time.


If players like McGregor are on the payroll other clubs would be mad to agree to a 10p in the £ settlement -they should insist that all steps are taken to raise funds and if that means selling everybody-well get on with it.