Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[BoomtownHibees]

It's very unlikely that any of it would affect the current club.

The only remote possibility is if BDO manage to argue that D&P's handling of the administration was so wrong that it should be reversed. However, any financial fall out of that would probably be borne by D&P's insurance.

That is, if they have any [emoji48]

Ah well. We can hope :)

[Hibs Class]

It's very unlikely that any of it would affect the current club.

The only remote possibility is if BDO manage to argue that D&P's handling of the administration was so wrong that it should be reversed. However, any financial fall out of that would probably be borne by D&P's insurance.

That is, if they have any [emoji48]

And presumably the reason it doesn't affect the current club is because it is indeed (in this case) a different club.

[Bostonhibby]

And presumably the reason it doesn't affect the current club is because it is indeed (in this case) a different club.

Be careful[emoji6] I think you might have got away with it......

[Ozyhibby]

And presumably the reason it doesn't affect the current club is because it is indeed (in this case) a different club.

Nailed it

[Jim44]

While all the discussion/banter/expectation etc. on this thread re. the progress, or lack of it, of Sevco, is very amusing and interesting, only one thing is almost certain ........ they will be a stronger and better managed team next season and we will have our work cut out to deal with them ( no reason why we can't, however ). We shouldn't let the King/Ashley circus divert our attention from this fact.

[BoomtownHibees]

only one thing is almost certain ........ they will be a stronger and better managed team next season and we will have our work cut out to deal with them

Says who and on what grounds?

[Pretty Boy]

While all the discussion/banter/expectation etc. on this thread re. the progress, or lack of it, of Sevco, is very amusing and interesting, only one thing is almost certain ........ they will be a stronger and better managed team next season and we will have our work cut out to deal with them ( no reason why we can't, however ). We shouldn't let the King/Ashley circus divert our attention from this fact.

That as may be but we will also be a stronger and better managed team this season and thanks to a relatively settled squad (compared to the hun) and a couple of early additions we already have the edge on them.

[CropleyWasGod]

And presumably the reason it doesn't affect the current club is because it is indeed (in this case) a different club.
Naw.

It's a different company [emoji6]

[The Falcon]

Be careful[emoji6] I think you might have got away with it......


Worth resurrecting this little gem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3il9rf6lPE

[Jim44]

Says who and on what grounds?

Good question and, no, I can't give you an answer. The reason for my observation is based on best guessing and probability. I make the point because every time I look at the Generic Sevco thread, I start to enjoy the mess they appear to be in, yet I can't forget the 'Jambo demise mega thread', how they were meant to be on the verge of extinction and yet got their act together in time to progress to where they are. I suspect Sevco are capable of the same Houdini act and all I'm saying is that we shouldn't have our heads turned by the hilarity of the in fighting in the west.

[Mibbes Aye]

I agree I don't think he's daft enough to go. He's a clever and intelligent young man who has done very well for himself. He will know that the job at Ibrox is a poisoned chalice.

Not worth gambling his whole career on it.

I would hope he doesn't. I don't doubt he went abroad because his coaching philosophy got a better reception in Portugal and Spain than it did here.

I think he has enormous potential but it would take buy-in from the board, players, media and supporters wherever he went and I'm not sure he would get enough time at Rangers to make it work. I think he would be successful but if it was on his terms it might take longer than people were willing to tolerate. I think he would have the focus and patience to give it time to work but I'm not sure others would.

I've not met him but I've listened to people who have and it feels like he would make Paul Le Guen look like Jock Wallace - it's not that he's revolutionary, but he has clear ideas about how to train and play and a patience to get performance right and let results play catch-up. Not sure the Huns are ready for that!

Flipside is that, in theory, they could qualify for the Champions' League within two years. They could.

That's got to be an attractive proposition for an ambitious and confident young manager.

[Mikey09]

I would hope he doesn't. I don't doubt he went abroad because his coaching philosophy got a better reception in Portugal and Spain than it did here.

I think he has enormous potential but it would take buy-in from the board, players, media and supporters wherever he went and I'm not sure he would get enough time at Rangers to make it work. I think he would be successful but if it was on his terms it might take longer than people were willing to tolerate. I think he would have the focus and patience to give it time to work but I'm not sure others would.

I've not met him but I've listened to people who have and it feels like he would make Paul Le Guen look like Jock Wallace - it's not that he's revolutionary, but he has clear ideas about how to train and play and a patience to get performance right and let results play catch-up. Not sure the Huns are ready for that!

Flipside is that, in theory, they could qualify for the Champions' League within two years. They could.

That's got to be an attractive proposition for an ambitious and confident young manager.


I agree. This would take everyone connected with The Rangers to buy into his philosophy and looking at where they are right now, player wise and playing style this, in my opinion would take 2-3 years. No chance he would get that. He'd be out on his arse in 2-3 months if results were poor!

[YehButNoBut]

Mark on the brink

Warburton set to land Gers job

MARK WARBURTON could be 48 hours away from becoming the next Rangers manager.
SunSport understands Dave King’s shortlist of five candidates has been whittled down to just two.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/6499484/Mark-on-the-brink.html?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-scotsunsport-_-20150613-_-SunScotSport-_-192410438

[bingo70]

Mark on the brink

Warburton set to land Gers job

MARK WARBURTON could be 48 hours away from becoming the next Rangers manager.
SunSport understands Dave King’s shortlist of five candidates has been whittled down to just two.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/6499484/Mark-on-the-brink.html?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-scotsunsport-_-20150613-_-SunScotSport-_-192410438

I'm quite happy with that. Imo they should have stuck with McCall. He knows the club, knows what's needed, knows the league, had them heading in the right direction and has a proven track record in Scottish football.

I think employing this guy is a massive gamble and there's plenty examples of good managers not cutting it at big clubs despite being promising at a smaller team. He'll take time to learn what's required and if we can get off to a good start then they might not have time on their side.

[Keith_M]

......I think employing this guy is a massive gamble...........


Do you mean like Stubbs?



:wink:

[BoomtownHibees]

Do you mean like Stubbs?



:wink:

And look how that turned out. Still in the bloody championship

:wink:

[Eyrie]

I'm quite happy with that. Imo they should have stuck with McCall. He knows the club, knows what's needed, knows the league, had them heading in the right direction and has a proven track record in Scottish football.

I think employing this guy is a massive gamble and there's plenty examples of good managers not cutting it at big clubs despite being promising at a smaller team. He'll take time to learn what's required and if we can get off to a good start then they might not have time on their side.
We can only hope that he'll turn out to be their Fenlon - a decent guy who is out of his depth.

[lord bunberry]

I'm quite happy with that. Imo they should have stuck with McCall. He knows the club, knows what's needed, knows the league, had them heading in the right direction and has a proven track record in Scottish football.

I think employing this guy is a massive gamble and there's plenty examples of good managers not cutting it at big clubs despite being promising at a smaller team. He'll take time to learn what's required and if we can get off to a good start then they might not have time on their side.
:agree: They need someone who'll come in and make it work right away. An average first quarter could see them with to much to do.

[bingo70]

Do you mean like Stubbs?



:wink:

It'd be more like someone inexperienced doing well at hibs then joining Everton.

As much as I hate them rangers are a huge club, what has this guy done to suggest he can handle such a big job? Took over a Brentford team that were already doing well? Completely different job.

[Dan Sarf]

It'd be more like someone inexperienced doing well at hibs then joining Everton.

As much as I hate them rangers are a huge club, what has this guy done to suggest he can handle such a big job? Took over a Brentford team that were already doing well? Completely different job.

Sorry to disagree but I'm a Brentford season ticket holder (can't get to Edinburgh very often) and was able to see what happened when Warburton took over from Uwe Rosler (who did a good job but failed to get them promoted).

Warburton developed and improved Rosler's team (with the help of some excellent loanees), got the Bees up to the Championship, and finished last season with their best second-tier placing for 80 years. He also created an exciting, tight-knit squad who played their hearts out for him. And a stadium frequently sold out with delighted fans who chanted his name at every opportunity.

It was only when Matthew Benham, Brentford's owner, put his nose in (with the dubious help of "mathematical modelling") that the season took a wobble and Brentford just missed the playoffs. Otherwise, I reckon they could easily have gone up to the Premier League.

Warburton's big problem might be the deep seated suspicion of anyone English (unless they are the Queen of course, or a highly remunerated English international) which he will undoubtedly encounter from our narrow-browed chums in the West.

Hope so! :flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry to disagree but I'm a Brentford season ticket holder (can't get to Edinburgh very often) and was able to see what happened when Warburton took over from Uwe Rosler (who did a good job but failed to get them promoted).

Warburton developed and improved Rosler's team (with the help of some excellent loanees), got the Bees up to the Championship, and finished last season with their best second-tier placing for 80 years. He also created an exciting, tight-knit squad who played their hearts out for him. And a stadium frequently sold out with delighted fans who chanted his name at every opportunity.

It was only when Matthew Benham, Brentford's owner, put his nose in (with the dubious help of "mathematical modelling") that the season took a wobble and Brentford just missed the playoffs. Otherwise, I reckon they could easily have gone up to the Premier League.

Warburton's big problem might be the deep seated suspicion of anyone English (unless they are the Queen of course, or a highly remunerated English international) which he will undoubtedly encounter from our narrow-browed chums in the West.

Hope so! :flag:


I'd never heard of the guy before, but as you say he seemed to improve them after Rossler. :agree:

My son lives down that way, and he went to the fulham game where Brentford won easily i think it might have been 4-1 or 4-2, he said he heard one of the funniest songs ever that day.

To the tune of knee's up mother brown, it was bees up fulham down. Both wrong in the end, but a good piss take for a derby game. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Sorry to disagree but I'm a Brentford season ticket holder (can't get to Edinburgh very often) and was able to see what happened when Warburton took over from Uwe Rosler (who did a good job but failed to get them promoted).

Warburton developed and improved Rosler's team (with the help of some excellent loanees), got the Bees up to the Championship, and finished last season with their best second-tier placing for 80 years. He also created an exciting, tight-knit squad who played their hearts out for him. And a stadium frequently sold out with delighted fans who chanted his name at every opportunity.

It was only when Matthew Benham, Brentford's owner, put his nose in (with the dubious help of "mathematical modelling") that the season took a wobble and Brentford just missed the playoffs. Otherwise, I reckon they could easily have gone up to the Premier League.

Warburton's big problem might be the deep seated suspicion of anyone English (unless they are the Queen of course, or a highly remunerated English international) which he will undoubtedly encounter from our narrow-browed chums in the West.

Hope so! :flag:

I don't dispute he did a good job at Brentford. Just saying it's very different circumstances and managing rangers will be a completely different ball game altogether than taking over a team that must have been doing pretty well anyway (I'm guessing they were doing alright or rosler wouldn't have been poached)

[AndyM_1875]

Warburton would be a very interesting & bold choice for that lot. The rumours I get from the hooped soapdodgers (non paranoid or obsessed types) suggest that McCall might be in the driving seat though as Warburton has no idea what his budget is going to be if he goes there and he needs to know.
King was talking about 10m but if fat Mike has dibs on 5m of that then it's going to be a slog for them.

The other rumours I got are that they tried to get McInnes from The sheep but were quoted a compensation figure of 500k. They don't have 500k so never going to happen. They also approached Alex McLeish but he wasn't interested as he wants to continue his career in England or Europe.

[HoboHarry]

Warburton would be a very interesting & bold choice for that lot. The rumours I get from the hooped soapdodgers (non paranoid or obsessed types) suggest that McCall might be in the driving seat though as Warburton has no idea what his budget is going to be if he goes there and he needs to know.
King was talking about 10m but if fat Mike has dibs on 5m of that then it's going to be a slog for them.

The other rumours I got are that they tried to get McInnes from The sheep but were quoted a compensation figure of 500k. They don't have 500k so never going to happen. They also approached Alex McLeish but he wasn't interested as he wants to continue his career in England or Europe.

I am quite confident in saying that DC does not have 10 million to invest in Rangers. In fact I would go as far to say that is bull@@it. :)

[Jim44]

They're happy bunnies over on FF, saying that the W/W duo, Warburton/weir, not Willy Wonka, will be announced tomorrow. One punter was keen to point out that all the relevant checks had been made to ensure he had no RC connections.:rolleyes:

[scoopyboy]

Sorry to disagree but I'm a Brentford season ticket holder (can't get to Edinburgh very often) and was able to see what happened when Warburton took over from Uwe Rosler (who did a good job but failed to get them promoted).

Warburton developed and improved Rosler's team (with the help of some excellent loanees), got the Bees up to the Championship, and finished last season with their best second-tier placing for 80 years. He also created an exciting, tight-knit squad who played their hearts out for him. And a stadium frequently sold out with delighted fans who chanted his name at every opportunity.

It was only when Matthew Benham, Brentford's owner, put his nose in (with the dubious help of "mathematical modelling") that the season took a wobble and Brentford just missed the playoffs. Otherwise, I reckon they could easily have gone up to the Premier League.

Warburton's big problem might be the deep seated suspicion of anyone English (unless they are the Queen of course, or a highly remunerated English international) which he will undoubtedly encounter from our narrow-browed chums in the West.

Hope so! :flag:

For a Brentford season ticket holder I would have thought you should have realised Brentford made the play offs. :greengrin

[grunt]

Kenny Macintyre ‏@bbckennymac 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/bbckennymac/status/610006044870320129) #BBCSportsound (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCSportsound?src=hash) Mark Warburton & Davie Weir will be confmd .@RangersFC (https://twitter.com/RangersFC) mngmnt team in next 24 hours. No role at present for Cathro #Rangers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)

[Bostonhibby]

Kenny Macintyre ‏@bbckennymac 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/bbckennymac/status/610006044870320129) #BBCSportsound (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCSportsound?src=hash) Mark Warburton & Davie Weir will be confmd .@RangersFC (https://twitter.com/RangersFC) mngmnt team in next 24 hours. No role at present for Cathro #Rangers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)
Cathro failed the protestant person test then?

You've got to wonder if people like Warburton or whoever else takes over appreciate that to many involved with this vile bigoted club it's actually important that they have or don't have a particular take on religion!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

They could have missed a trick with McCall I think. What arsed up their season was the start that McCoist gave them and the reluctance to punt Mr Rangers until the damage was done. A repeat of where they were with John Greig. McCall has had to take the rap for the season though, and he would have known that was on the cards if if did not take them up.

[Dan Sarf]

For a Brentford season ticket holder I would have thought you should have realised Brentford made the play offs. :greengrin


Hoped nobody would notice that! Doh.

[blackpoolhibs]

They could have missed a trick with McCall I think. What arsed up their season was the start that McCoist gave them and the reluctance to punt Mr Rangers until the damage was done. A repeat of where they were with John Greig. McCall has had to take the rap for the season though, and he would have known that was on the cards if if did not take them up.


Did they not get more points per game under McCoist and McDowell than they did under McCall? :confused:

[3pm]

Kenny Macintyre ‏@bbckennymac 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/bbckennymac/status/610006044870320129) #BBCSportsound (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCSportsound?src=hash) Mark Warburton & Davie Weir will be confmd .@RangersFC (https://twitter.com/RangersFC) mngmnt team in next 24 hours. No role at present for Cathro #Rangers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash)

Great to see Davie Weir back. He'll improve the standard of refereeing in the country. :agree:

[portycabbage]

Did they not get more points per game under McCoist and McDowell than they did under McCall? :confused:

I think that's due to the results McCoist got in the first few months of last season, other than that McCall got more points per game IIRC.

[Jack]

I think that's due to the results McCoist got in the first few months of last season, other than that McCall got more points per game IIRC.

That's a bit of weird logic :-)

McCall got more points if you don't count the bits where Fat Sally did better!

[Dan Sarf]

Video interview with Warburton here (from the start of his time at Brentford)...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33125007

[Elephant Stone]

Glad I'll probably see less punditry by David Weir now. He is one boring dick when he's not grabbing someone by the neck.

[Pretty Boy]

That's a bit of weird logic :-)

McCall got more points if you don't count the bits where Fat Sally did better!

Yep not sure I understand the point being made.

McCall certainly improved their results against us but his record was still pretty poor. 7 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats in his 17 games in charge.

[blackpoolhibs]

That's a bit of weird logic :-)

McCall got more points if you don't count the bits where Fat Sally did better!


McCall is getting more credit than he deserves because of his results against us.

[BoomtownHibees]

Yep not sure I understand the point being made.

McCall certainly improved their results against us but his record was still pretty poor. 7 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats in his 17 games in charge.

The point is pretty clear. Means that Butcher was our best ever manager if you only count his wins

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[Dan Sarf]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!


Nah, we'll have them on toast.

[Keith_M]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!


If they give him enough Dough, I'm sure he'll buy a team that'll rise to the occasion.

[GreenArmyyy!]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Sounds like Rangers have really buttered him up.

[Alfred E Newman]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Crumbs, that's some statement.

[Malthibby]

Hoped nobody would notice that! Doh.

Is that sour doh?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If they give him enough Dough, I'm sure he'll buy a team that'll rise to the occasion.

If he had used his loaf he would have knocked them back, I doubt he'll enjoy the roll.

[Jack Hackett]

If he had used his loaf he would have knocked them back, I doubt he'll enjoy the roll.

...or the currant buns

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Warburton could turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

he will already know about the team from Yeaster Road.

[therealgavmac]

Is that sour doh?

What's Homer Simpson got to do with it?

[GreenCastle]

Sounds like he could be good appointment -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3110119/Mark-Warburton-break-mould-great-Rangers-manager-says-Martin-Allen.html

Lots to sort out in a short space of time though.

[Deansy]

Sounds like he could be good appointment -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3110119/Mark-Warburton-break-mould-great-Rangers-manager-says-Martin-Allen.html

Lots to sort out in a short space of time though.

'Mark is not like that. He will do a studious, intelligent and steady job'- all qualities that will be of no assistance or help whatsoever to Warburton at 'Castle Greyskull' !

[CropleyWasGod]

More on King's alleged wealth. ....this time from someone claiming to be a Rangers supporter.

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/failure-to-engage/comment-page-1/#comment-1532

One point raised. ....if there is a 6 or 7 pence dividend to creditors from the old company, DK will be due 1.2 to 1.4m. How he chooses to spend it is another matter.

[Bostonhibby]

More on King's alleged wealth. ....this time from someone claiming to be Rangers supporter.

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/failure-to-engage/comment-page-1/#comment-1532

One point raised. ....if there is a 6 or 7 pence dividend to creditors from the old company, DK will be due 1.2 to 1.4m. How he chooses to spend it is another matter.
Is that before or after tax?[emoji6]

[gaz1875]

Both just signed a 3 year deal, here's hoping it goes tits up from day one :greengrin

[portycabbage]

That's a bit of weird logic :-)

McCall got more points if you don't count the bits where Fat Sally did better!


Yep not sure I understand the point being made.

McCall certainly improved their results against us but his record was still pretty poor. 7 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats in his 17 games in charge.


The point is pretty clear. Means that Butcher was our best ever manager if you only count his wins

The point I was making was that they won 9 out of their first 12 league games up till and including the 8th November, when they beat Falkirk 4-0.

They only won 10 out of the remaining 24 league games, including the ones McCall won. McCall was an improvement points wise on the last few months of McCoist and McDowell, which was dire.

[Smartie]

At the start of the season McCoist was coming off the back of back-to-back championship wins and had had years to create a squad that was good enough to win the league, as well as resources.

I think he did ok at the start of the season because there was still a fear factor about Rangers. As soon as the other teams realised they were actually gash then they started to struggle big time. Their squad was big and old and slow, horribly imbalanced and he was way too loyal to people and stubborn in playing formations that had long since stopped being in any way effective. They were a mess towards the end of his reign and even worse by the time McDowell was finished with them.

I thought McCall did really well with them given what he inherited. They were on their knees yet he managed to sift through their crap, persist with the players that were just about worth persisting with, blooded a few youngsters and almost got them promoted. I think he got as much as was physically possible out of their squad from a horrendous starting position.

Personally I'm delighted McCall hasn't got the job. I thought he got the better of Stubbs in the games towards the end of the season. He made them much harder to beat and if they'd committed to him then he'd have more of an idea of how good the players they already have are, he'll know a bit about the opponents they face this season and will have an idea of what they need to add to their squad.

Warburton and Weir have a bit of the unknown about them but they are heading off from a standing start. If they get sufficient backing then of course they will be a danger to us this season. But we really have to spend most of our time worrying about our own games - if we "do a Hearts" and come out of the traps fast (and there is no reason why we shouldn't) then we should take a decent head start on them that may prove very hard for them to turn around.

[Moulin Yarns]

Both just signed a 3 year deal, here's hoping it goes tits up from day one :greengrin

1 year managing the Rangers and 2 years pruning plants

[Nutmegged]

At the start of the season McCoist was coming off the back of back-to-back championship wins and had had years to create a squad that was good enough to win the league, as well as resources.

I think he did ok at the start of the season because there was still a fear factor about Rangers. As soon as the other teams realised they were actually gash then they started to struggle big time. Their squad was big and old and slow, horribly imbalanced and he was way too loyal to people and stubborn in playing formations that had long since stopped being in any way effective. They were a mess towards the end of his reign and even worse by the time McDowell was finished with them.

I thought McCall did really well with them given what he inherited. They were on their knees yet he managed to sift through their crap, persist with the players that were just about worth persisting with, blooded a few youngsters and almost got them promoted. I think he got as much as was physically possible out of their squad from a horrendous starting position.

Personally I'm delighted McCall hasn't got the job. I thought he got the better of Stubbs in the games towards the end of the season. He made them much harder to beat and if they'd committed to him then he'd have more of an idea of how good the players they already have are, he'll know a bit about the opponents they face this season and will have an idea of what they need to add to their squad.

Warburton and Weir have a bit of the unknown about them but they are heading off from a standing start. If they get sufficient backing then of course they will be a danger to us this season. But we really have to spend most of our time worrying about our own games - if we "do a Hearts" and come out of the traps fast (and there is no reason why we shouldn't) then we should take a decent head start on them that may prove very hard for them to turn around.

Really good post, I agree with your train of thought but I do think Warburton will be a good appointment,I think he's the fresh face of the club they've needed for a long time, I also think he can make them a nore likable club, while their fans will still be the same old same old I feel he is a lot more genuine than the typical Rangers manager (Alex McLeish apart)

[Jim44]

According to a thread on FF, Warburton's first signing will be Clayton Donaldson.

[matty_f]

According to a thread on FF, Warburton's first signing will be Clayton Donaldson.

I liked Donaldson when we had him, I think he suffered from Collins' poor signing policy (IIRC, Donaldson had been lined up by Mowbray). I've kept an eye out for him since he left us and he definitely seems to have improved.

[Geo_1875]

Really good post, I agree with your train of thought but I do think Warburton will be a good appointment,I think he's the fresh face of the club they've needed for a long time, I also think he can make them a nore likable club, while their fans will still be the same old same old I feel he is a lot more genuine than the typical Rangers manager (Alex McLeish apart)

I know **** all about Warburton but I know he can't do that.

[Spike Mandela]

According to a thread on FF, Warburton's first signing will be Clayton Donaldson.

A rare Hibernian Hat trick hero.:cb

[greenginger]

According to a thread on FF, Warburton's first signing will be Clayton Donaldson.



He was their top scorer and poy . Also on contract for another season at Birmingham.

[JimBHibees]

A rare Hibernian Hat trick hero.:cb

Was that the game he had three pens and scored two of them?

[Spike Mandela]

Was that the game he had three pens and scored two of them?

Well remembered sir!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7017189.stm

[Bostonhibby]

I liked Donaldson when we had him, I think he suffered from Collins' poor signing policy (IIRC, Donaldson had been lined up by Mowbray). I've kept an eye out for him since he left us and he definitely seems to have improved.
Decent player who made the most of his ability. Hopefully won't end up at the bigots.

[JimBHibees]

Well remembered sir!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7017189.stm

14500 what a crowd that is. Not like Gary Locke to lose the plot and kick Hibs players.

[Ozyhibby]

14500 what a crowd that is. Not like Gary Locke to lose the plot and kick Hibs players.

7 years of mismanagement under Petrie and crowds are 1/3 lower.
[emoji17]

[AndyM_1875]

Warburton signs then... I really should know better than to listen to the mental ramblings of obsessed soapdodgers who have been wrong about pretty much everything in this whole pantomime since day 1.

[Moulin Yarns]

There has been the usual media circus at Ibrox with the unveiling of Warburton and Weir, but what happened to the vote from the EGM on Friday. No mention, nothing, not a sausage!!

Did Mike Ashley just turn up and get his money back?

Where is the media in all this?

[jacomo]

There has been the usual media circus at Ibrox with the unveiling of Warburton and Weir, but what happened to the vote from the EGM on Friday. No mention, nothing, not a sausage!!

Did Mike Ashley just turn up and get his money back?

Where is the media in all this?

DR website has something like 8 stories on Warburton, very little else. Goebbels would approve.

[Jack Hackett]

DR website has something like 8 stories on Warburton, very little else. Goebbels would approve.

Didn't someone post that the results of Fridays egm would be released today? The old 9/11 strategy of 'A good day to bury bad news' immediately springs to mind

Edit:.....In fact I believe it was you :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Didn't someone post that the results of Fridays egm would be released today? The old 9/11 strategy of 'A good day to bury bad news' immediately springs to mind

Edit:.....In fact I believe it was you :greengrin

There is no good or bad news about Friday's vote. I think it's just a process Ashley is going through before demanding his money back.

[brog]

7 years of mismanagement under Petrie and crowds are 1/3 lower.
[emoji17]

Alternatively, you can look at our last home game against Killie before Petrie took over when we had under 9,000 on Boxing Day & argue that in 10 years Petrie increased our gates by well over 50%! I'm no RP fan but it does get a bit wearisome to see posts like this.

[jacomo]

Didn't someone post that the results of Fridays egm would be released today? The old 9/11 strategy of 'A good day to bury bad news' immediately springs to mind

Edit:.....In fact I believe it was you :greengrin

Yes it was me! They definitely reported that results would be out today.

I predict an official 99% in favour of the King... despite Ashley alone having 9%... :greengrin

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I see they are keen on Danny Wilson. From the sun twitter


"A friend of mine once said he liked his women like his parmesan: strong smelling and shaved"

[Brightside]

If Wilson is how high they are aiming we have nothing to worry about. bang average. and will still want close to 10k a week

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

It said in the sun he's to be their first 'marquee' signing.

They can throw all the money want at it, they are not prepared for the upcoming season and last season was evidence of preparation being key when you look at hearts.


"A friend of mine once said he liked his women like his parmesan: strong smelling and shaved"

[Nutmegged]

I see they are keen on Danny Wilson. From the sun twitter


"A friend of mine once said he liked his women like his parmesan: strong smelling and shaved"

AgentScotland reported it yesterday morning...thought it was a lot of guff but everyone is running with it now

[emerald green]

Whoever the Ayebrokes club sign, you can be certain they will be better than the gash deadwood they are getting rid off.

They will be better and stronger than they were last season. They surely would not be worse? That's just naive to think that.

How long it takes for them to gell as a team will be a crucial factor as to who wins the Championship. IMHO.

[ScottB]

Whoever the Ayebrokes club sign, you can be certain they will be better than the gash deadwood they are getting rid off.

They will be better and stronger than they were last season. They surely would not be worse? That's just naive to think that.

How long it takes for them to gell as a team will be a crucial factor as to who wins the Championship. IMHO.

Plus let's not forget our two defeats to said deadwood once they had a competent manager in charge of them.

Unless things really kick off away from the pitch for them, beating Rangers to the title will be a monumental task, and as things stand, I don't think we are looking fantastically well prepared, or markedly stronger than last season.

[bingo70]

Plus let's not forget our two defeats to said deadwood once they had a competent manager in charge of them.

Unless things really kick off away from the pitch for them, beating Rangers to the title will be a monumental task, and as things stand, I don't think we are looking fantastically well prepared, or markedly stronger than last season.

Agreed, although I'm not concerned how strong we look now.

I think for us to go up automatically we'll need to do something similar to what hearts did last season.

[green day]

as things stand, I don't think we are looking fantastically well prepared, or markedly stronger than last season.

Really? You don't like what we have signed so far?

Not having a pop, but don't you think we have done good business so far?

Clearly we need keepers, but I imagine that's in hand.

[Jack Hackett]

Plus let's not forget our two defeats to said deadwood once they had a competent manager in charge of them.

Unless things really kick off away from the pitch for them, beating Rangers to the title will be a monumental task, and as things stand, I don't think we are looking fantastically well prepared, or markedly stronger than last season.

I'm of the opinion that it wasn't so much the competent manager as the arrival of Vuckic which was their biggest improvement. As for looking fantastically well prepared, or stronger than last season, especially compared to this time last year, we are at a whole different level, with a settled team and a happier support...in the main

[ScottB]

Really? You don't like what we have signed so far?

Not having a pop, but don't you think we have done good business so far?

Clearly we need keepers, but I imagine that's in hand.

It's a start, but we need a lot more than the 2 new boys we've added, folk talking like we have such an advantage over them, but we still need to add first team players, starters at that and not just keepers if we are going to win the title.

Last year, yeah, we came second, but Rangers could well be a whole different proposition, beating them to the title would arguably be Hibs greatest achievement in decades, let's not right off Rangers because they were a joke at times last year, basically!

[ScottB]

I'm of the opinion that it wasn't so much the competent manager as the arrival of Vuckic which was their biggest improvement. As for looking fantastically well prepared, or stronger than last season, especially compared to this time last year, we are at a whole different level, with a settled team and a happier support...in the main

Yes indeed, but I don't think we are much stronger than the side that ended the season yet, and we need to be, we need a side that can come out the blocks like Hearts did, aim to beat every team etc.

[tamig]

It's a start, but we need a lot more than the 2 new boys we've added, folk talking like we have such an advantage over them, but we still need to add first team players, starters at that and not just keepers if we are going to win the title.

Last year, yeah, we came second, but Rangers could well be a whole different proposition, beating them to the title would arguably be Hibs greatest achievement in decades, let's not right off Rangers because they were a joke at times last year, basically!
The hun have released a team full of players. They are in a similar position to what we were in 12 months ago. We are well ahead of them and Warburton will have his work cut out to get a team settled for the start of the new season.

[ScottB]

The hun have released a team full of players. They are in a similar position to what we were in 12 months ago. We are well ahead of them and Warburton will have his work cut out to get a team settled for the start of the new season.

And despite their mess, they'll break out the chequebook. How that goes for them remains to be seen, but I'd say they were the favourites.

[Waxy]

And despite their mess, they'll break out the chequebook. How that goes for them remains to be seen, but I'd say they were the favourites.Your a right bundle of joy.

[Jack]

Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

[Jack Hackett]

And despite their mess, they'll break out the chequebook. How that goes for them remains to be seen, but I'd say they were the favourites.

Throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily solve it, especially immediately. Warburton has a lot of building to do, and not a lot of time to do it in. Hibs can do enough, just like the jammy dodgers last season, to have them play catch up while they try to get their s**t together. With the team as it stands now, I think we are better than hertz were at the start of last season. We were certainly better than them at the end of it.

[Jack Hackett]

Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

Well said Jack :top marks

[Bostonhibby]

Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

This is an accurate assessment of the standing of their finances - the cash outs are considerably bigger than the cash ins, and unless King produces new money from outside their existing sources they have not got many great options - soak the fans with a new share issue?, borrow at high rates to reflect the risk that they are given their stock market situation and no obvious nomad previously willing to touch them? Mystery backers are likely to remain even more mysterious now given that the costs associated with messing Ashley about will be more than just the debt.


The reason they are pleading with der hun to buy season tickets is this is effectively the only sizeable cash flow that might just take care of the current mess with a bit left over - new money from dodgy dave is as rare as a payment by the now defunct Glasgow rangers to their majestys' tax collector.

Mind you, it's tilting at windmills to expect the SPFL to do anything except cross their fingers and hope the latest fit and proper person doesn't go pop along with the clubs finances again as they really haven't got the balls to front the rangers or the "rangers men" who continue to do what they like.

[Ozyhibby]

Anyone who thinks that Rangers will spend big must believe that King is about to get out his personal cheque book because that is the only source of finance available to them.
Personally I have my doubts that he has the cash.

[PatHead]

Was speaking to a neighbour who follows The Rangers on the Kelso bus. He says a few seasons ago they filled a bus easily. Now the bus is half empty or they take a smaller bus depending on who they are playing. He doesn't believe the appointment of Warburton will fill the bus or sell season tickets. Feels it may be a good appointment but nothing exciting as it will take time to sort "the mess"

[jacomo]

Anyone who thinks that Rangers will spend big must believe that King is about to get out his personal cheque book because that is the only source of finance available to them.
Personally I have my doubts that he has the cash.

Maybe he really is thinking about administration? Wipe the debt, renegotiate contracts and all income from then on is his.

His big problem is still Ashley, a powerful and remorseless foe.

[portycabbage]

Maybe he really is thinking about administration? Wipe the debt, renegotiate contracts and all income from then on is his.

His big problem is still Ashley, a powerful and remorseless foe.

I think Ashley has security over much of the assets in an admin - and they'd get 25 points deducted this season, and 15 points the next season as well (under recent changes to the rules).

[DH1875]

His big problem is still Ashley, a powerful and remorseless foe.

We should get him to loan us Vuckic for next season :)

[AndyM_1875]

Maybe he really is thinking about administration? Wipe the debt, renegotiate contracts and all income from then on is his.

His big problem is still Ashley, a powerful and remorseless foe.

The debt is the 5m to Ashley plus the dreadful retail contracts so I can't see Ashley pulling the rug for Admin2 as he holds the cards.

Warburton will be scrabbling about the Bosman market and use loan signings. There is no "war chest" and talk of them spending 500k here or £1m there is nonsense.
Rangers couldn't afford to spend 500k to get Derek McInnes so there's no way they'll be paying transfer fees.

[Ozyhibby]

The debt is the 5m to Ashley plus the dreadful retail contracts so I can't see Ashley pulling the rug for Admin2 as he holds the cards.

Warburton will be scrabbling about the Bosman market and use loan signings. There is no "war chest" and talk of them spending 500k here or £1m there is nonsense.
Rangers couldn't afford to spend 500k to get Derek McInnes so there's no way they'll be paying transfer fees.

Ashley holds security over everything except Ibrox. He can force admin 2 and still be in total control at the end of the process.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ashley holds security over everything except Ibrox. He can force admin 2 and still be in total control at the end of the process.

There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

[magpie1892]

Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

:top marksThe MSM appear to be ignoring the fact that they haven't got any money and, added to that, Ashley's ire is up (I'm still experiencing this as a NUFC supporter) and he's attacking Rangers on three fronts.

I have no idea why it is being ignored that RFC are still paying directorial salaries to Llambias and the other Ashley placeman who got booted off the board.

They have no money. They are skint. They are also running at a huge loss.

I'm confident Hibs will finish above them next season.

[Ozyhibby]

There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

Aren't Mash most likely to be able to offer the most to an administrator for a CVA?

[CropleyWasGod]

Aren't Mash most likely to be able to offer the most to an administrator for a CVA?

Without a crystal ball, that can't be answered. There may be others out there who would offer more.

And, of course, it begs the question.... why would they want to own the club?

[Smartie]

They are still a massive unknown.

They might get their act together but I don't think that the signs (at this stage) are good.

As I see it, they are where we were at this time last season. They may have just made a very smart appointment as a manager but they don't have anything close to a team. They might get a good one together, they might not.

What we have is the bones of a very handy team that has just needed a bit of fleshing out - that process has already started. A couple more additions and a full pre-season and we'll be fine.

Our team started the season badly - the start of the season came around just too soon for them and it may be the same for The Rangers. We got better as the season went on though and in the end just fell a bit short (but still managed to finish ahead of The Rangers).

Rangers were a big club so it's natural that people will have an eye on what they do. But what we do this season is down to us. Hearts did well last season by taking control of their own game. We need to do the same.

Where we went wrong last season was that we weren't good enough at breaking down packed defences of lesser teams, especially at home. We need to get better at this and get as near a perfect record at home and against the teams other than The Rangers as possible.

Then it's down to 4 games against them. There was nothing last season in our games against both The Rangers and Hearts to suggest that we have anything to fear in these games, especially considering that I think we are going to improve further before the season starts.

[GreenOnions]

They are still a massive unknown.

They might get their act together but I don't think that the signs (at this stage) are good.

As I see it, they are where we were at this time last season. They may have just made a very smart appointment as a manager but they don't have anything close to a team. They might get a good one together, they might not.

What we have is the bones of a very handy team that has just needed a bit of fleshing out - that process has already started. A couple more additions and a full pre-season and we'll be fine.

Our team started the season badly - the start of the season came around just too soon for them and it may be the same for The Rangers. We got better as the season went on though and in the end just fell a bit short (but still managed to finish ahead of The Rangers).

Rangers were a big club so it's natural that people will have an eye on what they do. But what we do this season is down to us. Hearts did well last season by taking control of their own game. We need to do the same.

Where we went wrong last season was that we weren't good enough at breaking down packed defences of lesser teams, especially at home. We need to get better at this and get as near a perfect record at home and against the teams other than The Rangers as possible.

Then it's down to 4 games against them. There was nothing last season in our games against both The Rangers and Hearts to suggest that we have anything to fear in these games, especially considering that I think we are going to improve further before the season starts.

I agree with most of this. However, in reality, I think whether we win the league or not will be about whether we can consistently win all our other games against teams not called "The Rangers".

Hearts' record against them and us last season was inconclusive but they racked up win after win against all other teams.

There will be little point in doing well against the Glasgow team and then dropping points against others. I suppose that highlights the importance of the point you make about being able to break down packed defences. We must find a way of doing that week after week after week just like our knuckle-dragging neighbours last season.

[Phil MaGlass]

The Rangers will go into administration, take the points penalty and be promoted through league reconstruction, start new season with 15pts deduction and avoid relegation, everything will be hunky dory.

[BSEJVT]

Its all if's, but's and maybe's

In isolation I could see King taking them into Admin to get rid of the retail contracts and anyone else from the wage bill he wanted shot off.

He would then pay Ashley back the £5m, which he is bound to do anyway and then own everything again.

However he wont do this as the penalties for going into Admin again mean that his only prospect this season (15-16) of promotion would be an outside chance of the play offs and next season (16-17) it would still be hard to win the league depending on who was in the championship.

The worry for them (and to a lesser extent us) is that once people switch off from going, its not easy to turn them back on.

It is interesting that their galvanising effect of their insolvency appears to have lasted for a shorter period than the Gunts (as they got back in one season) and the longer they spend out the SPL the more of their support they will lose.

Warburton, may or not be a decent manager, its far too early to tell as both sides of the OF (and several other clubs, including us) have suffered with guys who looked good on paper, but couldn't get the players to buy in to their "new" methods.

I suspect though that he will have had better players at his disposal at Brentford and that both he and they would have been under far less pressure to deliver than he will be at Ipox.

If they don't start well the natives will get extremely restless and the pressure will build.

[Jim44]

The Rangers will go into administration, take the points penalty and be promoted through league reconstruction, start new season with 15pts deduction and avoid relegation, everything will be hunky dory.

Do you really think this will happen? Despite all the banter and hilarity at Sevco's expense, the signing of Warburton and Weir could be their meal ticket to winning the league next season. Warburton says he is totally confident that King will deliver the goods in terms of the budget he (Warburton) requires and he is going to look a bit foolish if it all goes tits-up. He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would throw himself in to a potential cesspit without assurances and due diligence. If they fail to get promotion, it's more likely to be because Warburton and Weir are not good enough.

[Kato]

Do you really think this will happen? Despite all the banter and hilarity at Sevco's expense, the signing of Warburton and Weir could be their meal ticket to winning the league next season. Warburton says he is totally confident that King will deliver the goods in terms of the budget he (Warburton) requires and he is going to look a bit foolish if it all goes tits-up. He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would throw himself in to a potential cesspit without assurances and due diligence. If they fail to get promotion, it's more likely to be because Warburton are not good enough.

Given his previous mode of employment hype and spivery wouldn't be unknowns to him.

[CallumLaidlaw]

@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %

[Geo_1875]

@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %

So they are the same club after all.

[CB_NO3]

The longer they take to pay back the loan to MASH the better it is for us IMO.

[Deansy]

Oh dear, seems like Warburton became a successful manager DESPITE Jock Wallace -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/mark-warburton-overcome-by-awe-on-rangers-arrival-1-3802979

'It’s safe to assume a trip to the Gullane sand dunes, where Wallace famously put his players through their pre-season paces during his two spells as manager, is not on Warburton’s immediate agenda'

So, no 'Kick-the-crap-out-of-the-opposition' football for the Hun on the cards ??. I give him until December.

[Bostonhibby]

@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %
The only flaw in their cunning plan might be that Ashley and sports direct might not have to do what the shareholders tell them.

Plenty mileage left

[Billychaotic182]

I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

[Geo_1875]

Oh dear, seems like Warburton became a successful manager DESPITE Jock Wallace -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/mark-warburton-overcome-by-awe-on-rangers-arrival-1-3802979

'It’s safe to assume a trip to the Gullane sand dunes, where Wallace famously put his players through their pre-season paces during his two spells as manager, is not on Warburton’s immediate agenda'

So, no 'Kick-the-crap-out-of-the-opposition' football for the Hun on the cards ??. I give him until December.

I don't get this. Who says he's become a successful manager? Why should we be worried about him taking over at Ibrox? He took someone else's team to the Championship and got beat in the play-offs. Brentford finished ahead of Wolves on goal-difference. Would we be worried if Kenny Jackett was the huns new manager? AND they've got no money to spend.

[PatHead]

I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

If there is no repayment date set on the loan and nothing in it to say repayable on demand they can ignore it for as long as they want.

However, the merchandising deal remains at 75% for as long as the loan is in place so it may be in The Rangers interests to get rid of the loan asap to create a cash flow. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Gmack7]

I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

i'm telling santander i'm no happy about the loan i have with them so i've decided not to pay it back

[Cropley10]

Its all if's, but's and maybe's

In isolation I could see King taking them into Admin to get rid of the retail contracts and anyone else from the wage bill he wanted shot off.

He would then pay Ashley back the £5m, which he is bound to do anyway and then own everything again.

However he wont do this as the penalties for going into Admin again mean that his only prospect this season (15-16) of promotion would be an outside chance of the play offs and next season (16-17) it would still be hard to win the league depending on who was in the championship.

The worry for them (and to a lesser extent us) is that once people switch off from going, its not easy to turn them back on.

It is interesting that their galvanising effect of their insolvency appears to have lasted for a shorter period than the Gunts (as they got back in one season) and the longer they spend out the SPL the more of their support they will lose.

Warburton, may or not be a decent manager, its far too early to tell as both sides of the OF (and several other clubs, including us) have suffered with guys who looked good on paper, but couldn't get the players to buy in to their "new" methods.

I suspect though that he will have had better players at his disposal at Brentford and that both he and they would have been under far less pressure to deliver than he will be at Ipox.

If they don't start well the natives will get extremely restless and the pressure will build.

My understanding is that Ranges Retail is a separate business (a JV) and would not be impacted by administration of Rangers International…

[AndyM_1875]

Ashley holds security over everything except Ibrox. He can force admin 2 and still be in total control at the end of the process.

Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

There is no aggressive creditor there trying to prove a point as there was in 2012 with HMRC who were chasing a legal precedent that never came. Ashley cannot take control of the club as he owns Newcastle. A guy worth Billions isn't going to sink Rangers over what is to him spare change. But he has Rangers by the nuts in terms of contracts and securities as they found to their cost in court last week. So why force Administration? The retail contracts aren't going anywhere.

If Administration happened Ashley would probably lose the entire interest he has in Rangers including these punitive contracts and there is surely a functioning business in that club that could be sold on to new owners?

Whatever we think of Rangers they are a big name and at one time they were a huge club and they still have a big support. Run along similar lines to Celtic they could be very successful. So why sink them? (An answer of 'cos they're a bunch of knob-ends' probably isn't correct) :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

True but Mash would still control all the trademarks, badges name etc as ownership of them was transferred to mash and so they would not make up part of the CVA.
Be hard to see how anyone else could put together a deal without those crucial parts of the intellectual property?

[CropleyWasGod]

True but Mash would still control all the trademarks, badges name etc as ownership of them was transferred to mash and so they would not make up part of the CVA.
Be hard to see how anyone else could put together a deal without those crucial parts of the intellectual property?

They're returnable once the loan is repaid, no?

[jacomo]

Given his previous mode of employment hype and spivery wouldn't be unknowns to him.

You would also think that Warburton would have asked a few questions about the finances before signing up.

[Andy74]

i'm telling santander i'm no happy about the loan i have with them so i've decided not to pay it back

Wrong way round. It's like Santander asking for it all back now. Would you be up for that?

[Kato]

You would also think that Warburton would have asked a few questions about the finances before signing up.

He'd be told that King has "wealth off the radar", (even though radar isn't very good at measuring wealth, as we've seen with previous owners of clubs at Ibrox.)

OR

That King has a lot of bread - more dough than you can dream of.

I say, let them eat cake.

[magpie1892]

Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

There is no aggressive creditor there trying to prove a point as there was in 2012 with HMRC who were chasing a legal precedent that never came. Ashley cannot take control of the club as he owns Newcastle. A guy worth Billions isn't going to sink Rangers over what is to him spare change. But he has Rangers by the nuts in terms of contracts and securities as they found to their cost in court last week. So why force Administration? The retail contracts aren't going anywhere.

If Administration happened Ashley would probably lose the entire interest he has in Rangers including these punitive contracts and there is surely a functioning business in that club that could be sold on to new owners?

Whatever we think of Rangers they are a big name and at one time they were a huge club and they still have a big support. Run along similar lines to Celtic they could be very successful. So why sink them? (An answer of 'cos they're a bunch of knob-ends' probably isn't correct) :wink:


You're right - it's pennies to Ashley, but the man has a vindictive streak as wide as the Tyne and I honestly think he gets his jollies from destroying anyone who opposes him, regardless of whether if it profits him or not.

He's turned SJP into a disgusting hoarding for **** Direct, and the same company still occupies the digital hoardings at Greyskull. He knows that the hun still have a global reach, albeit without the global exposure of the EPL.

As has already been posted, a long way to run in this one, but what is hilarious is that but a few weeks ago, the hun were trumpeting how they'd got rid of Ashley. So you have, aye.

[Ozyhibby]

They're returnable once the loan is repaid, no?

Yes but instead of just taking security over these assets until it is repaid as normally happens, sports direct have actually taken ownership of them. If they go into admin then I would think this puts Ashley in the driving seat for a CVA ?

[StevieC]

Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

Let me be a Newcastle United supporter and answer your questions ..
He does whatever the **** he wants.
He doesn't give a ****.

[magpie1892]

Let me be a Newcastle United supporter and answer your questions ..
He does whatever the **** he wants.
He doesn't give a ****.

That's pretty much what I said, except you have done so more succinctly.

[Iain G]

Let me be a Newcastle United supporter and answer your questions ..
He does whatever the **** he wants.
He doesn't give a ****.

But in the case of the The THE Rangers, its bleeding hilarious :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Wrong way round. It's like Santander asking for it all back now. Would you be up for that?

Appreciate the point, but Ashley could reasonably say that he was lending to a company that was at least AIM listed ,and public in that sense at least - a lot of less stable moves have been made since and if he was really worried about his cash and the loan terms allowed then why shouldn't he ask for it back? The rangers international have certainly moved the goalposts since then ,notably by lying about / or not ending up with having the confidence of a Nomad when King said they had one, then delisting.

At best they have gone from being a dodgy risk for repaying a loan as a quoted company to a truly unknown risk by delisting - the only loan related development since delisting is refusing to pay back when asked then wanting to renegotiate a few months after taking and spending the money!

They don't strike me as a business with cash available or the confidence of traditional lenders otherwise why not pay Ashley off straight away before he gets really serious as suggested by magpie1982 above?

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes but instead of just taking security over these assets until it is repaid as normally happens, sports direct have actually taken ownership of them. If they go into admin then I would think this puts Ashley in the driving seat for a CVA ?

Still not sure what you mean by being "in the driving seat for a CVA."

If a CVA happens, MASH get their £5m back as secured creditor. At that point, RFC get their badges and stuff back. He has his money back, the security falls, and he has no further involvement in the CVA.

[Ozyhibby]

Still not sure what you mean by being "in the driving seat for a CVA."

If a CVA happens, MASH get their £5m back as secured creditor. At that point, RFC get their badges and stuff back. He has his money back, the security falls, and he has no further involvement in the CVA.

So what is the advantage in SD taking ownership rather just a security over the assets?

[magpie1892]

why not pay Ashley off straight away before he gets really serious as suggested by magpie1982 above?

I guess the obvious answer to this question is because they don't have the money.

Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Charles Green & Co.
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Super Ally
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Kenny McDowell
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for the directorial salaries of Llambias and Leach (great name, in this context!)
Money for the upkeep of hunbrox is steadily increasing
Money from retail has hit the floor - TRFC clear 75p per replica shirt sold

...and so on.

King is either skint or won't put his hand in his pocket. It's more likely the former.

[CropleyWasGod]

So what is the advantage in SD taking ownership rather just a security over the assets?

Squeezing their balls ever tighter? :greengrin

It is that, though, belt and braces. They have an asset that is worth (arguably) much more than the loan. That said, it's security in all but name, but one step further.

[Bostonhibby]

I guess the obvious answer to this question is because they don't have the money.

Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Charles Green & Co.
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Super Ally
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Kenny McDowell
Money is still leaving Ibrox for the directorial salaries of Llambias and Leach (great name, in this context!)
Money for the upkeep of hunbrox is steadily increasing
Money from retail has hit the floor - TRFC clear 75p per replica shirt sold

...and so on.

King is either skint or won't put his hand in his pocket. It's more likely the former.

:agree: Oh my sides:greengrin

But they are the peepul so nothing to worry about.

[jacomo]

I guess the obvious answer to this question is because they don't have the money.

Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Charles Green & Co.
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Super Ally
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for Kenny McDowell
Money is still leaving Ibrox monthly for the directorial salaries of Llambias and Leach (great name, in this context!)
Money for the upkeep of hunbrox is steadily increasing
Money from retail has hit the floor - TRFC clear 75p per replica shirt sold

...and so on.

King is either skint or won't put his hand in his pocket. It's more likely the former.

How is Chuckie Green still getting cash from them? Pretty impressive, in a way.

[Hibs Class]

Wrong way round. It's like Santander asking for it all back now. Would you be up for that?


There are circumstances in which Santander could ask for it all back now, regardless of whether or not the borrower is up for it. And if the borrower cannot/will not make full repayment then Santander could take possession of the security and realise it, again no matter how unhappy that might make the borrower. If the rangers haven't fulfilled the terms of the loan then Ashley may well be entitled to call for full repayment, in which case whatever they vote for at their GMs is irrelevant.

[Bostonhibby]

Squeezing their balls ever tighter? :greengrin

It is that, though, belt and braces. They have an asset that is worth (arguably) much more than the loan. That said, it's security in all but name, but one step further.

Just thinking out loud, how about King takes them into admin for his own ends but its a non fiddled entirely above the board admin for the benefit of the creditors / victims (yes, I know :greengrin) and Ashley or a nominee or someone who isn't a "the rangers man" offers the best value to the administrator? What then?

[Spike Mandela]

What are the repayment terms in the initial loan? Surely there must be a repayment date.

[magpie1892]

How is Chuckie Green still getting cash from them? Pretty impressive, in a way.

Really interesting question, and I wish I had a 'forensic' answer for you, but when he was atop the marble staircase (now more like a staircase with marbles on it) with his patsy Whyte, he had all sorts of sneaky wee contracts built into his tenure, to continue while he was there, and for a certain length of time after his departure. I understand (sorry, terrible 'journo' word!) that we're talking c.£3m a year...

It's very impressive - you couldn't give Green a red neck with a blowtorch.

Overall, what does disappoint me as a journalist, is how the Scottish MSM have utterly failed to explain where the money is (or, indeed, isn't), where it's going, what Warburton can expect in terms of £ to rebuild a gash squad, etc.

It's not the 90s any more. The sun no longer perennially shines on hunbox. Serious investigative journalism is required - but the red tops won't step up to the plate. Forget The Scotsman and The Herald, of course - these are both basically finished as serious newspapers.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just thinking out loud, how about King takes them into admin for his own ends but its a non fiddled entirely above the board admin for the benefit of the creditors / victims (yes, I know :greengrin) and Ashley or a nominee or someone who isn't a "the rangers man" offers the best value to the administrator? What then?

He who dares wins. :greengrin

[magpie1892]

:agree: Oh my sides:greengrin

But they are the peepul so nothing to worry about.

As they reminded us in the 2nd leg of the play-off semi, they are indeed the people. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a 45%/SNP/Taig, etc.

[Geo_1875]

What are the repayment terms in the initial loan? Surely there must be a repayment date.

We don't know the detail but any commercial loan I've ever seen can be called in at the whim of the lender.

[Ozyhibby]

We don't know the detail but any commercial loan I've ever seen can be called in at the whim of the lender.

I could be wrong on this but I think mortgages can as well. They never are of course but I'm sure it's in the small print.

[Smartie]

Really interesting question, and I wish I had a 'forensic' answer for you, but when he was atop the marble staircase (now more like a staircase with marbles on it) with his patsy Whyte, he had all sorts of sneaky wee contracts built into his tenure, to continue while he was there, and for a certain length of time after his departure. I understand (sorry, terrible 'journo' word!) that we're talking c.£3m a year...

It's very impressive - you couldn't give Green a red neck with a blowtorch.

Overall, what does disappoint me as a journalist, is how the Scottish MSM have utterly failed to explain where the money is (or, indeed, isn't), where it's going, what Warburton can expect in terms of £ to rebuild a gash squad, etc.

It's not the 90s any more. The sun no longer perennially shines on hunbox. Serious investigative journalism is required - but the red tops won't step up to the plate. Forget The Scotsman and The Herald, of course - these are both basically finished as serious newspapers.

Whilst that is regrettable it is also understandable. They have to sell papers and digging to deep has too often been portrayed as being "anti-Rangers" and has led to a drop-off in sales. They are in decline anyway and can't afford to alienate many more of their customers.

Interesting because the opposite is probably true. If a newspaper were to unveil the true extent of where the money is going then it would surely be in the best interests of the fans. They could then turn their ire on who is actually siphoning off their money.

To be honest I think it is the price they pay for their very existence. The shareholders who stepped in when the new club launched are absolutely rinsing them (directly and indirectly) and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

I would have some sympathy if it were any other club.

[magpie1892]

Whilst that is regrettable it is also understandable. They have to sell papers and digging to deep has too often been portrayed as being "anti-Rangers" and has led to a drop-off in sales. They are in decline anyway and can't afford to alienate many more of their customers.

Interesting because the opposite is probably true. If a newspaper were to unveil the true extent of where the money is going then it would surely be in the best interests of the fans. They could then turn their ire on who is actually siphoning off their money.

To be honest I think it is the price they pay for their very existence. The shareholders who stepped in when the new club launched are absolutely rinsing them (directly and indirectly) and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

I would have some sympathy if it were any other club.

Great post, perfect analysis.

Bottom line, what would The Sun or The Record gain from a back-page splash of: THE RANGERS: WE'RE SKINT

Rhetorical question, of course, just ill-will from the blinkered peepul and no doubt No.287 in a never-ending series of 'boycotts'.

[Andy74]

There are circumstances in which Santander could ask for it all back now, regardless of whether or not the borrower is up for it. And if the borrower cannot/will not make full repayment then Santander could take possession of the security and realise it, again no matter how unhappy that might make the borrower. If the rangers haven't fulfilled the terms of the loan then Ashley may well be entitled to call for full repayment, in which case whatever they vote for at their GMs is irrelevant.

That's right but there doesn't seem to be a suggestion that any of the terms have been breached or it is otherwise now able to be called back in.

Why would he call a GM to ask shareholders to pay it back if he was legally entitled to payment? Why isn't he just using the terms of the agreement?

Seems to me that until something shows otherwise Rangers are entitled to stick to the agreed term of the loan.

[magpie1892]

That's right but there doesn't seem to be a suggestion that any of the terms have been breached or it is otherwise now able to be called back in.

Why would he call a GM to ask shareholders to pay it back if he was legally entitled to payment? Why isn't he just using the terms of the agreement?

Seems to me that until something shows otherwise Rangers are entitled to stick to the agreed term of the loan.

No terms have been breached.

Ashley's just coming the c***, and he's not even getting warmed up.

All good news for HFC...

[grunt]

No terms have been breached.

was it not previously stated that one of the terms of the loan was that Ashley had two seats on the Board? Now that Llambias and Leach have been removed, doesn't that imply the terms have been breached?

[JeMeSouviens]

Whilst that is regrettable it is also understandable. They have to sell papers and digging to deep has too often been portrayed as being "anti-Rangers" and has led to a drop-off in sales. They are in decline anyway and can't afford to alienate many more of their customers.

Interesting because the opposite is probably true. If a newspaper were to unveil the true extent of where the money is going then it would surely be in the best interests of the fans. They could then turn their ire on who is actually siphoning off their money.

To be honest I think it is the price they pay for their very existence. The shareholders who stepped in when the new club launched are absolutely rinsing them (directly and indirectly) and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

I would have some sympathy if it were any other club.

Except the Old Huns. :wink:

[magpie1892]

was it not previously stated that one of the terms of the loan was that Ashley had two seats on the Board? Now that Llambias and Leach have been removed, doesn't that imply the terms have been breached?

I guess that's why L & L are still getting paid - and why Ashley is on the attack. But I'm not 100% sure that seats on the board were assured - I've not seen the loan agreement.

I do wonder how many people are actually privy to the exact terms of the loan? I'd say it's single digits, and that number certainly doesn't include any members of the media.

[grunt]

I guess that's why L & L are still getting paid - and why Ashley is on the attack. But I'm not 100% sure that seats on the board were assured - I've not seen the loan agreement.

I do wonder how many people are actually privy to the exact terms of the loan? I'd say it's single digits, and that number certainly doesn't include any members of the media.This is clearly not the detail of the loan, but it is the Stock Exchange notice, which does mention "the right to nominate two directors to the board of Rangers for the duration of the Facility". No mention of repayment terms, and does actually speak about it as long term funding.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12227853.html

[CropleyWasGod]

This is clearly not the detail of the loan, but it is the Stock Exchange notice, which does mention "the right to nominate two directors to the board of Rangers for the duration of the Facility". No mention of repayment terms, and does actually speak about it as long term funding.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12227853.html
The pedant in me sees that as a "right to nominate " 2 directors. It doesn't actually entitle them to 2 seats on the Board.

[brog]

The pedant in me sees that as a "right to nominate " 2 directors. It doesn't actually entitle them to 2 seats on the Board.

I agree but isn't it the real point that now The The Rangers are delisted they would not need to make this kind of statement to the Stock Exchange in future? That's really the nub of Ashley's complaint, ( & I can see his point ) that he made a formal loan to a company listed on a regulated exchange & the status of that company has altered significantly ( for the worse ) since he made that loan.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree but isn't it the real point that now The The Rangers are delisted they would not need to make this kind of statement to the Stock Exchange in future? That's really the nub of Ashley's complaint, ( & I can see his point ) that he made a formal loan to a company listed on a regulated exchange & the status of that company has altered significantly ( for the worse ) since he made that loan.
There has been a fundamental change in the nature of the transaction,that's for sure.
In normal circumstances, he would be entitled to go for immediate repayment. However, as we all know, these ain't normal circumstances. While the loan remains unpaid, he's coining in the merchandising, in the knowledge that the loan is secured.

It's easy money for him.

[emerald green]

Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

I'll start with the bit in bold as that presumably includes me.

I personally don't know where The Rangers will get their income from, how much that will be, and neither do you or anyone else on this forum I would respectfully suggest, unless you have sat in on Board meetings at Ibrox.

Where, for example would the money have come from to offer their new management team three year contracts? I don't think Warburton, a former City trader, would have allowed them to pull the wool over his eyes too easily, would he? I know King is a "glib and shameless liar", but that's stretching it a bit far.

You have set out a number of statements about the financial situation at the Ibrox club, much of it coming from press reports I presume. How accurate these statements/reports are, who knows, but it's clear they don't have financial problems to seek, I agree.

The fact that Ibrox is "falling down" - that's maybe a wee exaggeration I think. The fact that Tynecastle is in a much worse state than Ibrox didn't cause HMFC too many problems in strolling the Championship last season. Yes, they will have to address this issue sometime (as will HMFC) but it won't be in the foreseeable future IMO. It's what happens on the pitch next season that matters.

I doubt if the Huns will boycott Ibrox next season if their new management team can get results on the pitch. If (a big if) they do get good results, they will be back in droves along with all the associated gate receipts. Same as most clubs, just that they they have the advantage of a much larger fanbase compared to every club in Scotland, except Celtic.

That takes me on to my next point. You focus almost entirely on the money - the financial side of things. But it's not purely about money. It's about getting decent players in, getting them organised and motivated. The don't need to spend hundreds of thousands on transfer fees. They don't have that kind of money anyway you say. Neither do Hibs.

There are decent players out of contract, and players can be brought in on loan. Better players than the deadwood they are getting rid off, which will free up wages. That's one reason, the main reason, why I think they will be better and stronger next season.

A lot will depend on who they bring in and how quickly they gell as a team, as I said in my previous post (I hope they don't!). They are not going to get rid of at least a dozen players (maybe more) and not bring anyone else in, at all, to replace them surely?

Whatever mess the Huns are in financially, I feel certain it will be between Hibs and The Rangers as to who will be first at the end of the season. It will become much clearer once everyone knows what sort of squad each club has by the time the season gets started.

I'm not in any way trying to defend the disgrace that is newco/Sevco - whatever they are called. I'd love to see them go to the wall, but I just don't think it's going to happen, no matter how much wishful thinking there is.

All of the above IMHO. Happy to be proven wrong later on down the line. Time will tell.

[brog]

There has been a fundamental change in the nature of the transaction,that's for sure.
In normal circumstances, he would be entitled to go for immediate repayment. However, as we all know, these ain't normal circumstances. While the loan remains unpaid, he's coining in the merchandising, in the knowledge that the loan is secured.

It's easy money for him.

Yep, easy money for him & lots of entertainment for us!

[greenginger]

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/hiUVWLaugV8I8sqAdWqYRWfR7-CJmuicPzJSNAXEia4/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAJU2UP34KSF4JSUKA&Expires=1434485510&Signature=1Zpojr4coLoSAtvUCnoe%2BC5IPSk%3D&x-amz-security-token=AQoDYXdzEBka4APVd7SwJS4%2Beih3xHhWk6tHp7s0A5 C%2FulayAz%2Fqbymm4Gvi51jeBv5H458v0pfNoT3H4jyc%2F5 XHF7ng%2Fyl9NgZeBMszWIPZ75VUVHrI4wAnoQtP%2BMdOHsts TZoRI%2F2xhg9xQeFtbtCJCNMBn7VW%2F5g52n2xmMrtUgyuDl %2F%2B0gVjRFYYJKjVsbVs4IxjRcIONJq315az6iKBOmZtGXK5 L%2BVhdPDFGoZHy5PoxZjvU%2FjPAezvSSVj0V1OQSuEHlwYJp q2vC9Jv9SFVO7RZdpDK7Zb8t9ROT4WGl3c3oWRTcp1ESRdHjVe FzTO2cGgeSIYrECJmSd%2BNqdG%2FG%2BPEVJK77xID6nHiQc1 v4MiBe6Rcp62KCYZHa2n0lngk%2BsGsn0G7hIQL5HwABzMJcW9 UiM8NEsj6wNEW73lKn2HAQf7J3li6MeHWp4XmpM6VSQF19k1Fq EvsKaVpWcNF4ZLYDFXBYS5aahpj%2BtmwEJwEsT5ncRMDMvslH ky96KbEEM%2FB7sqcdQJiDdghivpEIy6%2***5PkFgRm6eauUp GLVNxVofPCHFmMfK1iSIwAZfxbBHEUINnEG5UoPaPHo9QyJ2fq d14ewqJP4dW9jmCGM178QDURwi8INBh5gj2y90Fe9A2u***4Ig voKBrAU%3D

Copy of Standard Security on Edmonston House and the Albion car Park.

Clause 2 - Covenant to Pay

" ..... to pay and discharge on demand the secured obligation to the lender . "

I think Mike's £5 mil. is due now. :greengrin


Sorry , not copying, but available free on Companies House trial service.

[Deansy]

I'll start with the bit in bold as that presumably includes me.

I personally don't know where The Rangers will get their income from, how much that will be, and neither do you or anyone else on this forum I would respectfully suggest, unless you have sat in on Board meetings at Ibrox.

Where, for example would the money have come from to offer their new management team three year contracts? I don't think Warburton, a former City trader, would have allowed them to pull the wool over his eyes too easily, would he? I know King is a "glib and shameless liar", but that's stretching it a bit far.

You have set out a number of statements about the financial situation at the Ibrox club, much of it coming from press reports I presume. How accurate these statements/reports are, who knows, but it's clear they don't have financial problems to seek, I agree.

The fact that Ibrox is "falling down" - that's maybe a wee exaggeration I think. The fact that Tynecastle is in a much worse state than Ibrox didn't cause HMFC too many problems in strolling the Championship last season. Yes, they will have to address this issue sometime (as will HMFC) but it won't be in the foreseeable future IMO. It's what happens on the pitch next season that matters.

I doubt if the Huns will boycott Ibrox next season if their new management team can get results on the pitch. If (a big if) they do get good results, they will be back in droves along with all the associated gate receipts. Same as most clubs, just that they they have the advantage of a much larger fanbase compared to every club in Scotland, except Celtic.

That takes me on to my next point. You focus almost entirely on the money - the financial side of things. But it's not purely about money. It's about getting decent players in, getting them organised and motivated. The don't need to spend hundreds of thousands on transfer fees. They don't have that kind of money anyway you say. Neither do Hibs.

There are decent players out of contract, and pflayers can be brought in on loan. Better players than the deadwood they are getting rid off, which will free up wages. That's one reason, the main reason, why I think they will be better and stronger next season.

A lot will depend on who they bring in and how quickly they gell as a team, as I said in my previous post (I hope they don't!). They are not going to get rid of at least a dozen players (maybe more) and not bring anyone else in, at all, to replace them surely?

Whatever mess the Huns are in financially, I feel certain it will be between Hibs and The Rangers as to who will be first at the end of the season. It will become much clearer once everyone knows what sort of squad each club has by the time the season gets started.

I'm not in any way trying to defend the disgrace that is newco/Sevco - whatever they are called. I'd love to see them go to the wall, but I just don't think it's going to happen, no matter how much wishful thinking there is.

All of the above IMHO. Happy to be proven wrong later on down the line. Time will tell.

Not in disagreement with most of your post but I'd argue that MONEY is what changed Rangers when Lawrence Marlborough arrived and MONEY is what kept them at that level until they were caught - King cannot match that level of finance so, unless dubious practises return, I don't think their standard will improve from the current one , if anything, I actually believe they've hit their true historical-level.

[Geo_1875]

Not in disagreement with most of your post but I'd argue that MONEY is what changed Rangers when Lawrence Marlborough arrived and MONEY is what kept them at that level until they were caught - King cannot match that level of finance so, unless dubious practises return, I don't think their standard will improve from the current one , if anything, I actually believe they've hit their true historical-level.

The strange thing for me is why so many supposedly minted hun supporters are circling like sharks rather than pooling their resources to take their club back to their "rightful place".

[Kato]

The strange thing for me is why so many supposedly minted hun supporters are circling like sharks rather than pooling their resources to take their club back to their "rightful place".

Ego

[J-C]

The strange thing for me is why so many supposedly minted hun supporters are circling like sharks rather than pooling their resources to take their club back to their "rightful place".


Many will be reluctant to put up as the Rangers are still in financial plight, there's still some stormy waters to cross in the forthcoming months.

[StevieC]

The strange thing for me is why so many supposedly minted hun supporters are circling like sharks rather than pooling their resources to take their club back to their "rightful place".

I would think that most will be reluctant to put money in while there are still people fleecing money from the club. They'd effectively be subsidising someones "nice little earner".

[Ozyhibby]

Many will be reluctant to put up as the Rangers are still in financial plight, there's still some stormy waters to cross in the forthcoming months.

Their competitive advantage over clubs like Hibs comes from :-

Ticket sales :- usually about 4 times what Hibs can manage. Just now it's about 2.5 times ours.
Merchandising :- don't know the figures but I would have thought pre 2012 it would have been 10-20 times higher than Hibs. Just now they are getting less income from this than Hibs and it may actually become a cost to them.
TV money :- previously the old firm got 80% of the TV money between them. Just now, Hibs will have got more TV money than them last season.
Pitch side advertising :- would previously have been a big earner for them, many multiples of what Hibs receive. Now, all of that money goes straight to Mash.
Strip sponsors :- again, their strip sponsorship deal would normally dwarf Hibs deal by many multiples. Until the £5m is paid back, it all goes to SD.

The only way they can spend big this summer is if DK spends his own money.
With all their overheads, it's possible that their player budget will be similar to ours this season.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would think that most will be reluctant to put money in while there are still people fleecing money from the club. They'd effectively be subsidising someones "nice little earner".

Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.

[jacomo]

Not in disagreement with most of your post but I'd argue that MONEY is what changed Rangers when Lawrence Marlborough arrived and MONEY is what kept them at that level until they were caught - King cannot match that level of finance so, unless dubious practises return, I don't think their standard will improve from the current one , if anything, I actually believe they've hit their true historical-level.

And King is obsessed by money too - way before his 'over investment' comments, one of his criticisms of the old regime seemed to be that they weren't spending enough on players!

I think we can all agree that Warburton has a big job on his hands. Let's hope that The Rangers are unable to grasp the reality of their situation and continue frittering money away.

[Onion]

Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.

:agree: They've an uncanny knack of attracting dodgy characters with big egos and more money than sense.

Why would any serious, upstanding, credible businessman risk their reputation and hard earned money investing in such a bigoted, divisive, horrible club ? You'd have ask serious questions of anyone who would WANT to own that club.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would think that most will be reluctant to put money in while there are still people fleecing money from the club. They'd effectively be subsidising someones "nice little earner".

Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.

[Andy Bee]

Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.

When they were first liquidated and reformed in the 3rd division I think everyone thought they'd go with the best of their youth players, live well within their means and by the time they were back into the Premier league they'd have a decent squad but more importantly a substantial amount of cash to mount a good challenge.

The reality is they overspent on a squad which wasn't needed for the leagues they were playing in, they've next to no income from merchandising, they've no team to speak of, they're running at a loss, paying ex managers tens of thousands of pounds, in hock for £5m to someone that holds the securities on everything except Ibrox and are owned by a convicted tax dodger. What a shambles of a club.

[Ozyhibby]

When they were first liquidated and reformed in the 3rd division I think everyone thought they'd go with the best of their youth players, live well within their means and by the time they were back into the Premier league they'd have a decent squad but more importantly a substantial amount of cash to mount a good challenge.

The reality is they overspent on a squad which wasn't needed for the leagues they were playing in, they've next to no income from merchandising, they've no team to speak of, they're running at a loss, paying ex managers tens of thousands of pounds, in hock for £5m to someone that holds the securities on everything except Ibrox and are owned by a convicted tax dodger. What a shambles of a club.

They probably could have coped with the over spending in the squad. It's all the other money that disappeared over the 3 years since Green started them in Div 3 which is killing them. They basically have to survive on gate receipts alone.

[Brightside]

Rob Kiernan - CH Wigan - joining Rangers according to Sky. Recently failed a medical at Birmingham

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/1323141-rangers-have-bid-accepted-for-wigan-athletic-defender-rob-kiernan/ so the spending begins. £200k apparently

[duffers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33148799

Failed a medical this morning at Birmingham...

[Ozyhibby]

Not exactly a superstar then?

[southern hibby]

11 clubs and only 24. Makes me think he's either been very unlucky with injuries or and disruptive or and just not very good player. However he's still yet to sign for the newest club in Scotland
GGTTH

[Smartie]

Crocked Republic of Ireland internationalists eh?

That will have the fans flocking back.

[jacomo]

Not exactly a superstar then?

Yeah but he was in a Killie side that been Celtc once, so all good. FTP!

[jacomo]

They've appointed an MD as well.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/33151980

[CropleyWasGod]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/1323141-rangers-have-bid-accepted-for-wigan-athletic-defender-rob-kiernan/ so the spending begins. £200k apparently

... and that's just the premium for his health insurance.

[magpie1892]

96 games in seven years. Quality!

[Bostonhibby]

Crocked Republic of Ireland internationalists eh?

That will have the fans flocking back.
Republic? Will he pass the fit(?!) & protestant person test?

[Bostonhibby]

96 games in seven years. Quality!
Not quite Lorenzo amoruso is it? Mind you the now defunct Glasgow rangers phoenix club are still paying for that one[emoji1]

[Gmack7]

96 games in seven years. Quality!

96 more than Prodan, that deal was great value FOR PRODAN

[Kojock]

96 more than Prodan, that deal was great value FOR PRODAN

Tore Andre Flo at 12 mil was a steal for his 53 appearances.

[Gmack7]

96 games in seven years. Quality!

96 more than Prodan, that deal was great value FOR PRODAN

[Keith_M]

Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.


Absolutely.

There was the chance, after administration, for someone with money to buy it relatively cheaply, and then build it up again in a sustainable manner. In the longer term that would have been good for the club, and good for the owner. Instead, we have had people in it for a short-term gain, and I include Ashley in that.

There may be sharks sniffing about, but if there are decent business people out there, they will be holding off until the club is unencumbered by the crap that it currently has. That's the way it should have been from the start of Sevco.


96 more than Prodan, that deal was great value FOR PRODAN


96 more than Prodan, that deal was great value FOR PRODAN



Is there an echo in here?





:greengrin

[emerald green]

Not exactly a superstar then?

I agree, but the players they bring in don't have to be superstars to win the Championship.

They just have to be better, fitter, and more motivated than washed up and garbage players like Moshni, "Elbows", "Zal", fatso Boyd, rodent Black etc etc.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Can the players they bring in really be worse than some of those that are not being offered a new contract? It would be great if that turns out to be the case, but is that being realistic?

I just hope Hibs squad is better and stronger than their revamped squad, whoever they end up signing.

[emerald green]

Not in disagreement with most of your post but I'd argue that MONEY is what changed Rangers when Lawrence Marlborough arrived and MONEY is what kept them at that level until they were caught - King cannot match that level of finance so, unless dubious practises return, I don't think their standard will improve from the current one , if anything, I actually believe they've hit their true historical-level.

The bit in bold - fair comment, I can't argue with that.

[Cropley10]

Crocked Republic of Ireland internationalists eh?

That will have the fans flocking back.

:faf:

[Cropley10]

I agree, but the players they bring in don't have to be superstars to win the Championship.

They just have to be better, fitter, and more motivated than washed up and garbage players like Moshni, "Elbows", "Zal", fatso Boyd, rodent Black etc etc.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Can the players they bring in really be worse than some of those that are not being offered a new contract? It would be great if that turns out to be the case, but is that being realistic?

I just hope Hibs squad is better and stronger than their revamped squad, whoever they end up signing.

You can't be much fun on a night out :greengrin:

They're so bad that they can't be worse so they'll actually be better and better than Hibs.

The Rangers are a skint shambles. Relax a little :cool:

[Deansy]

:agree: They've an uncanny knack of attracting dodgy characters with big egos and more money than sense.

Why would any serious, upstanding, credible businessman risk their reputation and hard earned money investing in such a bigoted, divisive, horrible club ? You'd have ask serious questions of anyone who would WANT to own that club.


EXACTLY !! In this day and age, Rangers ARE an embarassment, not just to football but to Scottish-society also and no decent, respectable businesses or business-people would want to be associated with such an archaic relic from the 17th-Century !. It's a cross the Hun gladly bear. Sure, our intrepid media never mention what the No'1 reason for their existence is, the thing that sustains them, but every single person in this country (and beyond) KNOW what is is - RELIGION !!

You only need to log onto 'Mong-media' of 'F/F' to read what they're all about - although admittedly, occasionally actual 'Football' does get discussed. But also in every single game they play, you can hear their moronic, tribal chants - unencumbered by the law or the people who are meant to enforce it but don't ! Who on earth in the modern-age is interested in battles from 3-400 years ago in ANOTHER country, ffs ?? Their entire mentality is 100% fixed on 'Us against the Kaffliks'. No, no 'Serious, big-money' business will be looking at a tie-in with them. Business is all about the 'way forward', always planning/looking ahead and an involvement in, as I've said' a 17th-Century 'Sect' doesn't fit that criteria. In fact, years from now, they'll probably look back on the standards, character and reputation of their current chairman, Dave King, and realise HE was 'The cream of the crop' !!


Oh, and P.S - there's SFA money to be made in our game, anyway !

[StevieC]

To all those that talk about Rangers outspending us and romping away with the title ..

.. have a wee look at some of the reports here ..

The Rangers Accounts (http://www.rangersinternationalfootballclub.com/shareholder-centre/reports-accounts)

Every single season that they are out of the Premiership they are losing in excess of £10m a season.

The only reason they haven't went straight back into administration is that each season they have had guys come in and buy up shares (Easdales etc.) and last season they survived on a bailout from Mike Ashley. The reason they aren't paying Ashley back is because they can't!

[Hibs Class]

EXACTLY !! In this day and age, Rangers ARE an embarassment, not just to football but to Scottish-society also and no decent, respectable businesses or business-people would want to be associated with such an archaic relic from the 17th-Century !. It's a cross the Hun gladly bear. Sure, our intrepid media never mention what the No'1 reason for their existence is, the thing that sustains them, but every single person in this country (and beyond) KNOW what is is - RELIGION !!

You only need to log onto 'Mong-media' of 'F/F' to read what they're all about - although admittedly, occasionally actual 'Football' does get discussed. But also in every single game they play, you can hear their moronic, tribal chants - unencumbered by the law or the people who are meant to enforce it but don't ! Who on earth in the modern-age is interested in battles from 3-400 years ago in ANOTHER country, ffs ?? Their entire mentality is 100% fixed on 'Us against the Kaffliks'. No, no 'Serious, big-money' business will be looking at a tie-in with them. Business is all about the 'way forward', always planning/looking ahead and an involvement in, as I've said' a 17th-Century 'Sect' doesn't fit that criteria. In fact, years from now, they'll probably look back on the standards, character and reputation of their current chairman, Dave King, and realise HE was 'The cream of the crop' !!


Oh, and P.S - there's SFA money to be made in our game, anyway !

It's bigotry rather than religion that sustains them; they no doubt regard it as based around religion and present it as such but there is a world of difference between the good things that religion can represent and the hijacking of religion for hate purposes by bigots. Framing it as a religious conviction risks giving it some small degree of legitimacy; it's nothing but unadulterated, hateful, bigotry.

[greenginger]

To all those that talk about Rangers outspending us and romping away with the title ..

.. have a wee look at some of the reports here ..

The Rangers Accounts (http://www.rangersinternationalfootballclub.com/shareholder-centre/reports-accounts)

Every single season that they are out of the Premiership they are losing in excess of £10m a season.

The only reason they haven't went straight back into administration is that each season they have had guys come in and buy up shares (Easdales etc.) and last season they survived on a bailout from Mike Ashley. The reason they aren't paying Ashley back is because they can't!


A wee glance at their accounts for the 6 months to December 2014 shows income from retail as £4.2 million. That is only fractionally less than their gate receipts.

I thought Ashley was stealing all the shirt money !

Still the next 6 months will make better reading ( for us anyway ) with Ashley having another 25% of the retail income.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think they won't spend some cash, and be better than they were last season.
Kiernan might have failed a medical, but so did John Hartson, Demba Ba, etc, and all went on to do well. I reckon if he was signing for us, we'd be raving about him. BUT, I would rather have Liam Fontaine.
They WILL spend money, even if they don't have it, and they will bring in some loan players (McLeod maybe). We just have to make sure we start the season well while TheRangers are still adapting.

[Ozyhibby]

A wee glance at their accounts for the 6 months to December 2014 shows income from retail as £4.2 million. That is only fractionally less than their gate receipts.

I thought Ashley was stealing all the shirt money !

Still the next 6 months will make better reading ( for us anyway ) with Ashley having another 25% of the retail income.

I believe that Rangers show all the income from Rangers Retail in their accounts even though it's 75% owned by Mash.
And Income is not the same as profit.

[Ozyhibby]

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think they won't spend some cash, and be better than they were last season.
Kiernan might have failed a medical, but so did John Hartson, Demba Ba, etc, and all went on to do well. I reckon if he was signing for us, we'd be raving about him. BUT, I would rather have Liam Fontaine.
They WILL spend money, even if they don't have it, and they will bring in some loan players (McLeod maybe). We just have to make sure we start the season well while TheRangers are still adapting.

I'm not saying that Kiernan will not be a good signing, just that people should recognise that they are not shopping in the same market as before and they are a lot closer to where we are.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I'm not saying that Kiernan will not be a good signing, just that people should recognise that they are not shopping in the same market as before and they are a lot closer to where we are.

Oh, I definitely agree. Only difference will be wages. They will still be able to pay a player 4 or 4 times what we can. Kiernan done a good job for an English championship team last season so "should" be able to skoosh this league. Certainly an upgrade on the CB's they have got rid of this summer you'd have thought. And Warburton knows him pretty well too by the looks of it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh, I definitely agree. Only difference will be wages. They will still be able to pay a player 4 or 4 times what we can. Kiernan done a good job for an English championship team last season so "should" be able to skoosh this league. Certainly an upgrade on the CB's they have got rid of this summer you'd have thought. And Warburton knows him pretty well too by the looks of it.

Their turnover isn't 4 times what ours is.It won't be much more than double.

[Ozyhibby]

It's about £26m per annum but retail is about £8m of that.

[Cropley10]

Their turnover isn't 4 times what ours is.It won't be much more than double.

As previously mentioned turnover is irrelevant when their costs are £10m more per year.


Sent from a phone

[StevieC]

They will still be able to pay a player 4 times what we can.

I very much doubt it.

Have a read of the accounts and reports that I posted a link to. :wink:

[greenginger]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=14949

Ashley's fine for duel ownership issues reduced to £ 1,000.00

Can't be too hard on the man , just in case he is needed to bail them out again.

[MrSmith]

I don't understand how they can still own a licence as its pretty clear they are not living within their means nor sustainable without huge cash injections which gives them an unsporting advantage over other teams! Surely there is policy in place to stop this occurring as they are still overspending and haemorrhaging finances dramatically.

[StevieC]

It's about £26m per annum but retail is about £8m of that.

£26m last year included a £5m loan from Ashley (which kick-started the 75% of retail contract).

This year will need to include the second £5m loan, and will also be missing a substantial amount of retail turnover/income.

Just look at the 6 month figures ..
Revenue of £13.1m
Operating expenses of £16.1m
Profit on disposal of player registrations of £0.2m

Bear in mind that the majority of revenue comes at the start with season tickets, it's unlikely that anything other than an even bigger loss for the 2nd half of the financial year.
This is why they were desperate for Ashley's millions, in order to avoid admin and to be able to finish the season.

[tamig]

It's bigotry rather than religion that sustains them; they no doubt regard it as based around religion and present it as such but there is a world of difference between the good things that religion can represent and the hijacking of religion for hate purposes by bigots. Framing it as a religious conviction risks giving it some small degree of legitimacy; it's nothing but unadulterated, hateful, bigotry.
Let''s just call it "tradition" as any Rangers minded individual would trot out. I long for a day when a reporter asks that question of an interviewee - "So what are those traditions you always refer to?" Ain't gonna happen though.

[Bostonhibby]

Let''s just call it "tradition" as any Rangers minded individual would trot out. I long for a day when a reporter asks that question of an interviewee - "So what are those traditions you always refer to?" Ain't gonna happen though.

:agree: The really don't know their history - in the words of the song.

Many years ago in Paisley I got into a discussion with a guy who had a tattoo of a camp looking foreigner wearing a large wig, he was riding a pretty crudely drawn horse and the tattoo had 1690 underneath.

It was the night of George Bests appearance for Hibs at the old Love Street and we were staying in Paisley so we had our Hibs gear on when the creature started to talk to us - it seemed friendly enough - it's opening gambit was did we know George Best wasn't "one of us" - after a bit of gentle ridicule and other pointless chat we asked it what happened in 1690 and I kid you not, the explanation was that "King Billy fought a battle in Holland that saved Scotland from the Catholics". There really wasn't any point in going much further.

If you are going to put so much effort into learning the words of the venomous songs, marching up and down all day a couple of times a year and apparently guarding the walls of a town hundreds of miles away overseas against a long dead enemy, surely it's worth a cursory glance at Wikipedia to find out what actually happened, where, and when, never mind why.

[CropleyWasGod]

£26m last year included a £5m loan from Ashley (which kick-started the 75% of retail contract).

This year will need to include the second £5m loan, and will also be missing a substantial amount of retail turnover/income.

Just look at the 6 month figures ..
Revenue of £13.1m
Operating expenses of £16.1m
Profit on disposal of player registrations of £0.2m

Bear in mind that the majority of revenue comes at the start with season tickets, it's unlikely that anything other than an even bigger loss for the 2nd half of the financial year.
This is why they were desperate for Ashley's millions, in order to avoid admin and to be able to finish the season.

The loan doesn't count as turnover.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't understand how they can still own a licence as its pretty clear they are not living within their means nor sustainable without huge cash injections which gives them an unsporting advantage over other teams! Surely there is policy in place to stop this occurring as they are still overspending and haemorrhaging finances dramatically.

There is. It's called commercial reality :wink:

[StevieC]

The loan doesn't count as turnover.

This is why your presence is essential on this website. :wink:

In the figures they stated a £6m increase in turnover, the majority of which was down to their "venture" with Sports Direct.
"increase in retail revenue from £1.6m to £7.6m"

I've obviously wrongly assumed that this was the first £5m that Ashley pumped in (unless it's been a "purchase of rights" rather than a loan??).

It's difficult to see how retail revenue could jump up by so much, considering its claimed that SD now takes 75% of retail profits?

[MrSmith]

There is. It's called commercial reality :wink:


Lol aye :agree: wonder how their fans will take to it?? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

£26m last year included a £5m loan from Ashley (which kick-started the 75% of retail contract).

This year will need to include the second £5m loan, and will also be missing a substantial amount of retail turnover/income.

Just look at the 6 month figures ..
Revenue of £13.1m
Operating expenses of £16.1m
Profit on disposal of player registrations of £0.2m

Bear in mind that the majority of revenue comes at the start with season tickets, it's unlikely that anything other than an even bigger loss for the 2nd half of the financial year.
This is why they were desperate for Ashley's millions, in order to avoid admin and to be able to finish the season.

Those figures also included commonwealth games rugby and Scotland v Georgia match.

[Weststandwanab]

The loan doesn't count as turnover.

With Sevco who knows you would have to check their accounting policies !

[Deansy]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=14949

Ashley's fine for duel ownership issues reduced to £ 1,000.00

Can't be too hard on the man , just in case he is needed to bail them out again.


'The Appeal was rejected. However, having regard to all the circumstances, the Tribunal consider the appropriate sanction to be at the entry point for top-end breaches and impose a fine of £1000'

So despite Ashley being a worldly, mega-sucessful businessman, who owns an EPL team and would therefore know all the rules & regulations (or at least have people who would advise him of them) re football-club shares, his fine's reduced for being at the 'top-end breaches' as if he's some, naive, wee-boy ..................

The GFA - putting the 'S' into SYCOPHANTS !

[Jim44]

'The Appeal was rejected. However, having regard to all the circumstances, the Tribunal consider the appropriate sanction to be at the entry point for top-end breaches and impose a fine of £1000'

So despite Ashley being a worldly, mega-sucessful businessman, who owns an EPL team and would therefore know all the rules & regulations (or at least have people who would advise him of them) re football-club shares, his fine's reduced for being at the 'top-end breaches' as if he's some, naive, wee-boy ..................

The GFA - putting the 'S' into SYCOPHANTS !

You would think that, as well as receiving a punishment, no matter how big or small, the offender would be expected to cease offending. It seems that doesn't apply in terms of breaching SFA rules. Paying the fine appears to be the equivalent of buying the right to carry on offending.

[greenginger]

'The Appeal was rejected. However, having regard to all the circumstances, the Tribunal consider the appropriate sanction to be at the entry point for top-end breaches and impose a fine of £1000'

So despite Ashley being a worldly, mega-sucessful businessman, who owns an EPL team and would therefore know all the rules & regulations (or at least have people who would advise him of them) re football-club shares, his fine's reduced for being at the 'top-end breaches' as if he's some, naive, wee-boy ..................

The GFA - putting the 'S' into SYCOPHANTS !


But, if its a diddy wee club like Livvy !

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/livingston-punished-for-breaking-ownership-rules-1-3735816

[emerald green]

You can't be much fun on a night out :greengrin:

They're so bad that they can't be worse so they'll actually be better and better than Hibs.

The Rangers are a skint shambles. Relax a little :cool:

An absolute bundle of laughs, and the life and soul of the party. That's me mate. Love getting up and belting out a song or two whilst pished at the karaoke. :aok: :greengrin

You're missing the point I'm making though with what you say in your second sentence. Never mind. I'm cool.

[Ozyhibby]

Has the Irish guy actually signed?

[Matty_Jack04]

£26m last year included a £5m loan from Ashley (which kick-started the 75% of retail contract).

This year will need to include the second £5m loan, and will also be missing a substantial amount of retail turnover/income.

Just look at the 6 month figures ..
Revenue of £13.1m
Operating expenses of £16.1m
Profit on disposal of player registrations of £0.2m

Bear in mind that the majority of revenue comes at the start with season tickets, it's unlikely that anything other than an even bigger loss for the 2nd half of the financial year.
This is why they were desperate for Ashley's millions, in order to avoid admin and to be able to finish the season.

Didn't they get a loan from easdale last year to stop them drawing down the 2nd £5mill loan from mash?

[jacomo]

Didn't they get a loan from easdale last year to stop them drawing down the 2nd £5mill loan from mash?

I think it was Easdale, they said they didn't take the 2nd £5m from MASH.

[Hermit Crab]

15028

Shamelessly stolen from Facebook [emoji1]

[Dan Sarf]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dave-king-stands-to-get-14m-out-of-10m-rangers-oldco-creditors-pot.129207878

:tee hee:

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dave-king-stands-to-get-14m-out-of-10m-rangers-oldco-creditors-pot.129207878

:tee hee:

It seems we're back to the old ways of the MSM getting their info from Hibs.net. :greengrin

[greenginger]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dave-king-stands-to-get-14m-out-of-10m-rangers-oldco-creditors-pot.129207878

:tee hee:


If King's £ 20 million claim had been in at the start of Admin. could his vote have been enough to prevent his club's liquidation ?

Of course that might have alerted the S A authorities to other sources of assets. More concerned with saving his own skin than saving Deidco. fc.

[JeMeSouviens]

If King's £ 20 million claim had been in at the start of Admin. could his vote have been enough to prevent his club's liquidation ?

Of course that might have alerted the S A authorities to other sources of assets. More concerned with saving his own skin than saving Deidco. fc.

He voted *against* the CVA I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

[CropleyWasGod]

He voted *against* the CVA I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18360427

... which he would have done to increase the chances of liquidation, thereby giving him a chance of picking the club up for a song.

And he would have got away with it, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids at Duff n Phelps.

[JeMeSouviens]

... which he would have done to increase the chances of liquidation, thereby giving him a chance of picking the brand name and assets up for a song.

And he would have got away with it, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids at Duff n Phelps.

ftfy :wink:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ashley fined for dual interest, was £7,500 but reduced to £1,000.... Why bother?:rolleyes:

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/dd24d52c46891400332843bbc52669a7.jpg

[Bostonhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/dd24d52c46891400332843bbc52669a7.jpg
Is it Matt thornhill? Where do I pick up my prize?

[portycabbage]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/dd24d52c46891400332843bbc52669a7.jpgCould be Elton John. Keith Jackson is ***** at counting clues.

[Glory Lurker]

John Eustace.

[BH Hibs]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/dd24d52c46891400332843bbc52669a7.jpg

Davie Weir dual role

[DH1875]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/dd24d52c46891400332843bbc52669a7.jpg

Darren O'Dea ;)

[w pilton hibby]

John Eustace.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Rams-midfielder-John-Eustace-linked/story-26734490-detail/story.html

[bill the hibby]

Such an anti-climax, imagine this was kenny millar tweeting about hibs and this was the name revealed the next day, underwhelmed to say the least.

[Ozyhibby]

Such an anti-climax, imagine this was kenny millar tweeting about hibs and this was the name revealed the next day, underwhelmed to say the least.

Looks like they are in a similar market for players as us.

[bill the hibby]

Looks like they are in a similar market for players as us.

I haven't seen stubbs bring in a 35 year old journeyman as yet, doesn't seem to fit in to his vision for the club. Mind you there aren't many Scottish clubs these days who aren't in the market for out of contract players so in that respect i guess you're correct.

[Ozyhibby]

I haven't seen stubbs bring in a 35 year old journeyman as yet, doesn't seem to fit in to his vision for the club. Mind you there aren't many Scottish clubs these days who aren't in the market for out of contract players so in that respect i guess you're correct.

I mean wages wise, you can be in the same market but looking at different products.

[bill the hibby]

I mean wages wise, you can be in the same market but looking at different products.

Ah right, well then yes I agree totally, I'm glad we're looking at the correct products though haha.

[Jack Hackett]

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Rams-midfielder-John-Eustace-linked/story-26734490-detail/story.html

:faf: :faf: :faf:

As I sit at a chill out bar on La Carihuela Playa on a balmy evening after a perfect day, that just made my day complete :greengrin

[oneone73]

:faf: :faf: :faf:

As I sit at a chill out bar on La Carihuela Playa on a balmy evening after a perfect day, that just made my day complete :greengrin

The guy played the entire season in the English Championship; a sight higher than the level we're at. I wouldn't be so quick to mock -Fontaine, for example, came from the league below that.

[Del Boy]

Maybe past his best now but John Eustace is a very decent player.

[greenginger]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-offered-his-shares-to-ashley-at-meeting-on-june-12th/


Philmac .. whateverhisnameis now saying King has tried to flog his shares to Ashley.

Hilarious if true ! a big if , I know. :greengrin

[ballengeich]

The guy played the entire season in the English Championship; a sight higher than the level we're at. I wouldn't be so quick to mock -Fontaine, for example, came from the league below that.


Maybe past his best now but John Eustace is a very decent player.

According to Soccerbase his last game was in January - injured since then apparently. Their other target Kiernan is reported to have failed a medical at Birmingham. Is there a pattern emerging?

The English championship is a much higher standard than ours so these players must have a good basic ability, but they're not the sort you would expect a team determined to win the championship, whatever the cost, and build for the Premier to sign. Neither sounds like he'll guarantee The Rangers finishing above us.

[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-offered-his-shares-to-ashley-at-meeting-on-june-12th/


Philmac .. whateverhisnameis now saying King has tried to flog his shares to Ashley.

Hilarious if true ! a big if , I know. :greengrin

Health warnings all over that... but it did raise an eyebrow that King missed the GM because he was on club business in London.

Would Ashley really schedule a meeting at the same time to show just who's boss?

[Matty_Jack04]

According to Soccerbase his last game was in January - injured since then apparently. Their other target Kiernan is reported to have failed a medical at Birmingham. Is there a pattern emerging?

The English championship is a much higher standard than ours so these players must have a good basic ability, but they're not the sort you would expect a team determined to win the championship, whatever the cost, and build for the Premier to sign. Neither sounds like he'll guarantee The Rangers finishing above us.

They said on the Keirnan signing he fits the model there looking for adding value to the team and potential value to sell on at 24 and unlucky with injuries you can see the thinking then there next move is a 35yr old who's barely kicked a ball in 6months sort of tears that model up and throws it in the bin whithin a week hopefully there getting desperate pre season fast approaching squads in tatters

[Ozyhibby]

I'll be delighted if they keep signing this level of player