Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[1875godsgift]

They could be sold in advance of liquidation by the Administrators to the Newco. Alternatively they could be sold post-liquidation by the Liquidators to the highest bidder.

See, this is the bit I don't get. If someone had £20m they could buy Ibrox now and rent it back to rangers at £2m a year. That's more than double what Green is offering for the whole lot!

[Seveno]

I am beginning to think that the master plan (#372) now is that Green knows he won't get a CVA (despite the usual stuff from D&P saying that they have been in consultation with the major creditors), and would be quite happy to get his hands on the assets.

Go to the top of the class, young man.

Next question - D&P have been an integral part of the scam. Discuss.

[jgl07]

See, this is the bit I don't get. If someone had £20m they could buy Ibrox now and rent it back to rangers at £2m a year. That's more than double what Green is offering for the whole lot!

It's a stone wall certainty that a Newco will emerge. Maybe in the SPL, maybe in the SFL3.

Either way Ibrox and Murray Park will be worth a punt by an investment company with a view to renting them to the Newco in the future. This is whjat happened to Elland Road when Leeds got into financial bother.

[Just Alf]

They could be sold in advance of liquidation by the Administrators to the Newco. Alternatively they could be sold post-liquidation by the Liquidators to the highest bidder.

Spot on.

Basically if the CVA fails (with no chance of recovery) then Duff and Duffer are required to take the Huns into Liquidation. At that point Duff and Duffer are required to sell off the assets to pay the creditors, they need to maximise any return and can either sell everything off seperatley or the whole lot to another company, if the Admins cant show they got the best deal then they would end up liable for any deemed gap in monies......

From what I've read "the Yank", the blue knights and the green ones have ALL created shell companies in recent weeks so we might see a 3 way bidding war for the assets..... By that time tho the huns as we know then will be dead.

[1875godsgift]

It's a stone wall certainty that a Newco will emerge. Maybe in the SPL, maybe in the SFL3.

Either way Ibrox and Murray Park will be worth a punt by an investment company with a view to renting them to the Newco in the future. This is whjat happened to Elland Road when Leeds got into financial bother.

Ok thanks, I can see the logic in that. I was thinking that the new rangers would own Ibrox and murray park, which would be scandalous!

[CropleyWasGod]

the big tax case surely cant be included in any CVA if it not been made final? either way i hope HMRC be telling them to bolt?

another thing wil CW still get sued by ticketus or that now for green to sort out? wouldnt have thought CW be selling anythnig if he stands to lose £30million??

The BTC amount (ie the amount claimed by HMRC) has to be included in the CVA.

Ticketus will still sue CW. IIRC, he has personal guarantees over that deal.

[Leithenhibby]

This is like coming to the last few pages of a gripping book, you just can't wait for the sequel ..... :greengrin

[Just Alf]

This is like coming to the last few pages of a gripping book, you just can't wait for the sequel ..... :greengrin

:thumbsup:

[stokesmessiah]

This is like coming to the last few pages of a gripping book, you just can't wait for the sequel ..... :greengrin

Unfortunately like most sequels i suspect we are all going to be a little disappointed.

[Eyrie]

I'm a bit disappointed in how the first book is turning out. Was looking forward to an execution in the final chapter and it's looking like a "not guilty" verdict is on the cards.

[CropleyWasGod]

Unfortunately like most sequels i suspect we are all going to be a little disappointed.

Seriously?

The Silencing of the Yams?

Disappointing? :greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

Unfortunately like most sequels i suspect we are all going to be a little disappointed.


Sometimes the sequel is better, sometimes!! :wink:

[Leithenhibby]

Seriously?

The Silencing of the Yams?

Disappointing? :greengrin


I believe that it is being launched next Saturday ...... :greengrin

[HibbyDave]

:thumbsup:

Thinking about the plot...... Mr Whyte takes them to the brink then a Mr Green apparently rides in to the rescue (Fans of Rankgers take note re: the Green & Whyte connection).

On Radio Scotland today (Tam cowan/ Stuart Cosgrove show) someone called to say Charles Green is an anagram of Rangers Leech.....Go Figure.

How else can it end? Newco leave Scotland altogether courtesy of their new benefactors from all over the world and enter the lower leagues in Engerland?
The Newco buys Stain Mirren just to please Chuk Young?


Other options below please!

[fat freddy]

i dont post on this thread as im less knowledgable on the subject than most of the wonderful authors who have made this such a readable and informative journey into the dark underbelly of the inner sanctum at ibrox...may i say, if this is a book, which it could be, and it's coming to an end, which hopefully it isn't, i am setting up a councilling service for readers whose lives will now be empty without their daily dose of possibly the most entertaining thread of all time...gentlemen, a sequel from tynecastle may be on the horizon in the not too distant future but i hope you can keep me amused for a few more weeks with the closing passages of this particular story.

'if you only read one thread this year make sure it's this one'

[Haymaker]

Fat Freddy has a point... What do we do after this?!

[Jim44]

Fat Freddy has a point... What do we do after this?!

Well depending on how benignly and sheepishly the SPL and SFA react to the Houdiniesque upturn in the prospects of the cheating barstewards, maybe a concerted campaign by fans of all other clubs to unite and show the 'blazers' that their financial 'priorities before sporting integrity' will not be tolerated. Before the events of the weekend, plenty threats of boycotts and reprisals were being banded about but I wonder if, since everyone really thought Rangers were heading for serious oblivion, this will die a death in the inactivity of the close season. I know that a lot is still to happen in this saga but the cynic in me fears they will emerge from it, humiliated and battered, but relatively unscathed in real footballing terms.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Sometimes the sequel is better, sometimes!! :wink:

Indeed, with HMRC taking a lead role in The Empire Strikes Back!

[PatHead]

Well depending on how benignly and sheepishly the SPL and SFA react to the Houdiniesque upturn in the prospects of the cheating barstewards, maybe a concerted campaign by fans of all other clubs to unite and show the 'blazers' that their financial 'priorities before sporting integrity' will not be tolerated. Before the events of the weekend, plenty threats of boycotts and reprisals were being banded about but I wonder if, since everyone really thought Rangers were heading for serious oblivion, this will die a death in the inactivity of the close season. I know that a lot is still to happen in this saga but the cynic in me fears they will emerge from it, humiliated and battered, but relatively unscathed in real footballing terms.


Them, humiliated never. they will carry on as though nothing happened.

[ScottB]

Indeed, with HMRC taking a lead role in The Empire Strikes Back!

:top marks

The Empire WILL Strike Back!

[Jim44]

Them, humiliated never. they will carry on as though nothing happened.

In a thread about a CVA over there they seem to think it's all plain sailing now.

"Kennedy stated the BTC wasn't a problem in a cva, I agree as some money is better than hee haw" " I think it has already been agreed tbh and its just a case of going through the process and legalities." " D and P have been in contact with our creditors well big one anyway and know a round a bit figure of what will be accepted"

The attitude of 'we're getting out of this relatively unscathed' stinks. I would liken it to a convicted rapist asking how little the victim would accept for her trouble.:rolleyes:

[HibeesLA]

Indeed, with HMRC taking a lead role in The Empire Strikes Back!

And just like in The Empire Strikes Back, there was no Death Star, or "Big Hoose".

[JeMeSouviens]

**** me. The ****** Scotsman weighs in with a "Scottish football needs Rangers" editorial. Luckily I never buy it any more anyway, saves me a boycott. :wink:

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/leaders-green-lights-road-to-survival-for-rangers-1-2292603

[magpie1892]

In a thread about a CVA over there they seem to think it's all plain sailing now.

"Kennedy stated the BTC wasn't a problem in a cva, I agree as some money is better than hee haw" " I think it has already been agreed tbh and its just a case of going through the process and legalities." " D and P have been in contact with our creditors well big one anyway and know a round a bit figure of what will be accepted"

The attitude of 'we're getting out of this relatively unscathed' stinks. I would liken it to a convicted rapist asking how little the victim would accept for her trouble.:rolleyes:

They are not going to get a CVA, and Green knows this. His argument that a CVA would be 'logical' because in liquidation the creditors would get 'nothing' doesn't stand up to scrutiny in any way, and I don't think threats/blackmail will play very well with Hector. It's just bluster to keep the idiotic huns (i.e. 98% of them) on side while he works out how he's going to make a newco pay.

[JeMeSouviens]

In a thread about a CVA over there they seem to think it's all plain sailing now.

"Kennedy stated the BTC wasn't a problem in a cva, I agree as some money is better than hee haw" " I think it has already been agreed tbh and its just a case of going through the process and legalities." " D and P have been in contact with our creditors well big one anyway and know a round a bit figure of what will be accepted"

The attitude of 'we're getting out of this relatively unscathed' stinks. I would liken it to a convicted rapist asking how little the victim would accept for her trouble.:rolleyes:

Don't panic. The one consistency in the sorry saga so far is that the Hun optimists have had their hopes dashed at every turn.

There is next to no chance they will get a CVA agreed: the marginal cash over liquidation is buttons if anything.

There is next to no chance that their appeal to the SFA will succeed. The appeal panel is chaired by a famously tough judge and is independent of the goons at the SFA.

There is next to no chance the forced transfer of player contracts to the NewClub will succeed. They are relying on the players and their agents turning down bumper pay days for the good of the Rainjurs. Good luck with that!

Sadly there is every chance the Scottish football "authorities" will roll over and write whatever new rule books they need to let NewClub back in at the top tier of the game but given all the above they are well ****** anyway.

My prediction is the Hun NewClub will choose to start its life in Div 3 because they will have no stomach to stay in the SPL knowing they're in for a struggle.

And the final bit of good news: there isn't much serious money behind this bid. 20 odd investors to total less than £10M? What self respecting mega-rich egomaniac is going to splash the cash but share the limelight around like that. Even in their best case scenario, the Huns have some serious financial realities to face up to.

[JeMeSouviens]

Meanwhile, some Yank nails it.


Saporito said: “It’s not often that a professional sports team appears willing to run itself into the ground. But Glasgow Rangers is giving it a go.

“It’s possible the team could be liquidated. And it’s more than possible this is a great thing.

“Rangers and Celtic have dominated the Scottish Professional League forever but their bitter, sectarian-based rivalry has helped to undermine them.

“Their vile and violent fans are everything that’s wrong with football.

“If Rangers were to fold, some of the religious hatred could be drained and perhaps new rivalries might develop in the SPL.”


:top marks

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/05/13/old-firm-fans-fury-after-us-magazine-brands-them-vile-and-violent-86908-23858106/

[WindyMiller]

**** me. The ****** Scotsman weighs in with a "Scottish football needs Rangers" editorial. Luckily I never buy it any more anyway, saves me a boycott. :wink:

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/leaders-green-lights-road-to-survival-for-rangers-1-2292603


Whilst the following article complains about the government (the folk that the Huns have stiffed) not spending enough on the NHS. :confused:

[Jim44]

Meanwhile, some Yank nails it.



:top marks

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/05/13/old-firm-fans-fury-after-us-magazine-brands-them-vile-and-violent-86908-23858106/

Rangers supporters spokesperson says "we are not a sectarian club." He is named as Mark Dingwall who is the or one of the leading lights on Follow Follow and has the user name of 'Grandmastersuck' ....... No reference to chess expertise methinks.""" :rolleyes:

[JimBHibees]

Excellent article by Graham Spiers in the Sunday Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/devil-in-the-detail-of-the-sfas-report.17575469

[ScottB]

Whilst the following article complains about the government (the folk that the Huns have stiffed) not spending enough on the NHS. :confused:

The Scotsman doesn't seem to care much for anything other than its own, fingers in its ears pro Labour agenda. Presumably they've decided going pro Rangers helps with this...

[Bishop Hibee]

**** me. The ****** Scotsman weighs in with a "Scottish football needs Rangers" editorial. Luckily I never buy it any more anyway, saves me a boycott. :wink:

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/leaders-green-lights-road-to-survival-for-rangers-1-2292603

This is the most shallow, ill-informed, historical revisionist trash. A new low for the Hootsmon. No wonder the traditional newsprint press is facing a crisis in sales. The internet is full of sharper and better informed analysis of the Rangers situation.

Utter drivel.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just heard on talksport rangers are to play portsmouth, and are billing it as the el brasico.

[poolman]

Something's not quite right :hmmm:


Taken from Paul McConville's blog

Bearing in mind that Mr Green has said he has only ever met Mr Whyte three times (and I hasten to say I am not doubting him when he does so), that might have been through bad luck as they move, or seem to have moved, in similar circles.


From an article in The Sun today

And he also took time to scotch rumours both he and Whyte had worked together on a previous deal, declaring they had NEVER met before their hush-hush talks began.

[JimBHibees]

Anyone know where a copy of the SFA report released last week can be found online?

[JeMeSouviens]

Anyone know where a copy of the SFA report released last week can be found online?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93212354/SFA-Rangers-Note-of-Reasons

[Matty_Jack04]

Rods made up his mind then

@BBCLiamMcLeod: #Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie says sporting integrity comes before any financial benefit to clubs. Hear him on @BBCNewsdrive at 1730ish

Bravo Mr Petrie

[Just Alf]

Rods made up his mind then

@BBCLiamMcLeod: #Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie says sporting integrity comes before any financial benefit to clubs. Hear him on @BBCNewsdrive at 1730ish

Bravo Mr Petrie

:thumbsup:

:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[JeMeSouviens]

Rods made up his mind then

@BBCLiamMcLeod: #Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie says sporting integrity comes before any financial benefit to clubs. Hear him on @BBCNewsdrive at 1730ish

Bravo Mr Petrie

YES! Mon the Tache. :top marks

Exactly what I wanted to hear. :thumbsup:

[EuanH78]

Rods made up his mind then

@BBCLiamMcLeod: #Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie says sporting integrity comes before any financial benefit to clubs. Hear him on @BBCNewsdrive at 1730ish

Bravo Mr Petrie

Hopefully without sounding like a RP fanboy, maybe we can put to bed the thinking that he's only interested in money. Does what is best for Hibs IMO, not that we all have to agree with how its done.

[Spike Mandela]

According to STV news Mr Green has told Rangers fans that members of his consortium are 'good people.'

Oh well then, due diligence done.:rolleyes:

[EuanH78]

Livingston write to SFA saying if Rangers dont get at least the same punishment as they did they are going to demand £1.2M in lost revenues :aok:

Nice work Livi.

[hibs0666]

Livingston seeking compensation from SFA if Rangers get off more likely then them for the same offence.

[Lungo--Drom]

Totally AGREE!!! Superb move by the one they call El Tache!!! 10/10 to you Rod!


YES! Mon the Tache. :top marks

Exactly what I wanted to hear. :thumbsup:

[magpie1892]

Livingston seeking compensation from SFA if Rangers get off more likely then them for the same offence.

Not the same offence though, is it? Hun 10x worse and for 10x longer. Appeals committee should just expel them sine die.

[JJP]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup:

[Leithenhibby]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup:


Would like to have read that, but I'm no signing up to that manky lot!! :aok:

[Spike Mandela]

Anyone know how the SPL get away with making any vote on a newco an 8-4 vote? Surely as important a decision as this should fall under the umbrella of the OFs precious 11-1 vote.:rolleyes:

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup:

How can a 3rd division team boycott a SPL club? Random cup game I suppose but they'll be desperate for half the gate money

[Saorsa]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup::thumbsup: further away fae ER they smelly, ****my, bigoted *******s are the better :agree:

[calmac12000]

Just listening to BBC Scotland, was actually going to say that I cannot believe the guff emanating from the likes of Traynor and Paterson, but thinking about it its just parroting the party line. Unlike, the drivel perpetrated by the apologists for the status quo the whole drama involving the Rangers is perfectly simple i.e. you can't run any sport with a total neglect of the sporting ethos.
:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Leithenhibby]

How can a 3rd division team boycott a SPL club? Random cup game I suppose but they'll be desperate for half the gate money


Brilliant .... :greengrin

[SHODAN]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup:

Doesn't matter one bit to me. If they're in the SPL next season I will not be attending any Hibs-Rangers games.

[EuanH78]

Just listening to BBC Scotland, was actually going to say that I cannot believe the guff emanating from the likes of Traynor and Paterson, but thinking about it its just parroting the party line. Unlike, the drivel perpetrated by the apologists for the status quo the whole drama involving the Rangers is perfectly simple i.e. you can't run any sport with a total neglect of the sporting ethos.
:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:


Traynor is a complete tool, so much *****e spouted from that corpulent slavering hack it's unreal. Cant stand the man.

[Jim44]

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=869569

not happy with rod on followfollow. apparently we are going to be boycotted...happy days!:thumbsup:

One idiot has put a death wish on Petrie. : "Men of his age and weight frequently suffer heart-attacks in this Country." :idiot:

[JJP]

One idiot has put a death wish on Petrie. : "Men of his age and weight frequently suffer heart-attacks in this Country." :idiot:


Noticed that. Disgusting bunch.

[Saorsa]

One idiot has put a death wish on Petrie. : "Men of his age and weight frequently suffer heart-attacks in this Country." :idiot:That's the mentality of the **** though, and these are the sort of people that Doncaster, his cronies and the weegie media hacks think we cannae dae without :rolleyes:

[Bostonhibby]

Meanwhile, some Yank nails it.



:top marks

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/05/13/old-firm-fans-fury-after-us-magazine-brands-them-vile-and-violent-86908-23858106/

:agree:but didn't they just tell the yanks to go home anyway?

[green glory]

One idiot has put a death wish on Petrie. : "Men of his age and weight frequently suffer heart-attacks in this Country." :idiot:

Coming from 'supporters' who subsist on a diet of industrial estate snack van offal.

Snapped beak and cow-pube burger anyone?

[WindyMiller]

Excellent article by Graham Spiers in the Sunday Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/devil-in-the-detail-of-the-sfas-report.17575469

He should've finished it off with a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq9txi2Su1o

[Leithenhibby]

He should've finished it off with a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq9txi2Su1o

Aye, or perhaps try a more direct approach!! :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=0BU0_Wp5MHs

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

Popped over to afc-chat, primarily to see what they were making of Rodders principled stand, then noticed the banner headline and sponsorship... To be honest haven't been there for ages.. but now PMSL :-) as they say ...

To cut to the chase - note the EBT reference !!

8252

[steviehibsleith]

The meeting last week when all the clubs pulled back from sanctions till the 30th on the request of Duff and duffer im wondering if there is more than meets the eye here.

Yorkston came out first saying its wrong and the huns should be punished - Now Rod has come out a week later saying the same thing . I like a good conspiracy and remember they were in talks for a good few hours so maybe they all said this is our chance lets punish and rightfully so IMO for what they have done but maybe we should do it carefully so as not to look like we are all ganging up on them. here is what we will do.......

Dunfermline Yorkston this week as were going down - hibs next week RP then more mutterings Dundee Utd and Kilmarnocks chairmens have stated Money or Integrity . Before the 30th and they sit down again all clubs and fans want action . There was no plan or ganging up we just all decided it was the correct actions and way forward now we ave seen all relevent information.

[ScottB]

The meeting last week when all the clubs pulled back from sanctions till the 30th on the request of Duff and duffer im wondering if there is more than meets the eye here.

Yorkston came out first saying its wrong and the huns should be punished - Now Rod has come out a week later saying the same thing . I like a good conspiracy and remember they were in talks for a good few hours so maybe they all said this is our chance lets punish and rightfully so IMO for what they have done but maybe we should do it carefully so as not to look like we are all ganging up on them. here is what we will do.......

Dunfermline Yorkston this week as were going down - hibs next week RP then more mutterings Dundee Utd and Kilmarnocks chairmens have stated Money or Integrity . Before the 30th and they sit down again all clubs and fans want action . There was no plan or ganging up we just all decided it was the correct actions and way forward now we ave seen all relevent information.

The rumour I heard through here in Weegie land was that Celtic, Hibs and Dunfermline voted no, the others presumably a mix of yes and delaying tactics hoping the situation would resolve itself...

Will be interesting to see if Celtic make good on their supposed threat to resign from the league. I'd fully support Hibs following suit. If the other Chairmen are so interested in money, lets make it a choice between a league with fully financially healthy Celtic and Hibs, or a league without them but with the broken, crippled Rangers, with their moron fans probably boycotting half of them anyway.

[PatHead]

Alex Thompson's latest blog on Groundhog Day

Definitely a spring in my stride as I head to Manchester this afternoon to cover City’s open-top bus parade. Whether buying it or not they’ve widened the club of English Premier League winners and that has to be good.
And some finish – even as they prepared to roll out the red carpet for the Reds…with five added minutes still on the board for City.
So optimism in the air and yes, across the border too perhaps at Rangers, with – can it be – the backing at last to pay off their creditors (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-takeover-bid-speed-substance/1481): the charities, councils, colleges, small businesses – and the larger ones too.
All Rangers fans, all football fans, will want the debts paid – as will all taxpayers no doubt.
But last time Rangers were sold this was the situation:
1. The seller was desperate to sell the club;
2. The process was taken at the fastest possible pace;
3. The new buyer talked big about plans for the club;
4. The buyer was greeted as a saviour in many sections of the media;
5. Large statements were made about the buyer’s finances with little by way of hard information to back them up;
6. The buyer had a chequered record of company directorships;
And whaddya know? This time around all six apply all over again.
True, this time around there’s been some considered observation of Charles Green’s background. Helen McArdle’s excellent piece in the Herald on Saturday (http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/concerns-raised-over-new-bidder.17574712?_=3ed4c0cb31f9412dc97165b5a757ae9a 284c8a5d) sets the required tone of caution.
By way of filling in the (no doubt minor) details, here’s what comes to light about Mr Green’s almost lightning ability to flit from boardroom to boardroom:
It’s mobile. It’s dynamic. It’s also a list of dissolved companies (http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-news/pdf/Rangers.pdf).
What Rangers needs, what football needs, what business needs in these times above all else is sustainability. This looks, on the face of it, a doubtful CV to bring that to troubled Ibrox.
After Craig Whyte and the fiasco of his Ibrox ownership, what Rangers fans deserve is openness and transparency from Mr Green about his past and his present.
There are commercial limits of course but some disclosure of his financial backing would boost confidence. So too, real disclosure concerning the 20-strong consortium. Glasgow and Scottish football needs more than vague noises about Middle East and Singaporean connections.
And they need it fast. Avoiding liquidation remains far from assured and nobody should believe the administrators Duff and Phelps with their catalogue of absurd hype, missed deadlines and pantomime rescue deals.
Dispassionate, forensic, cautious work is now needed. We can only hope that finally Rangers have found men of their word and wallet, to lead.
But you have the CV (http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-news/pdf/Rangers.pdf) – warning sign or otherwise.
Follow Alex Thomson on Twitter @alextomo (https://twitter.com/#!/alextomo)

[ehf]

Traynor is a complete tool, so much *****e spouted from that corpulent slavering hack it's unreal. Cant stand the man.

He is a vile, loathsome and totally abhorrent specimen. I can think of no other public service broadcaster in the world that would provide a platform to such a t0sser. As a tax/licence-payer, it actually seems worse than having subsidised the Huns for 20 years.

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220274

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/1171414112.gif

[Saorsa]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220274Need tae get my PC cleaned now but it was worth it.

:hilarious

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=Mainboy19;3226593]http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220274

Bloke on there says our debt is now four times our annual turnover? How did that happen?
PETRIE !!!!!!!

[TrickyNicky]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220274

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/1171414112.gif


I'm lost for words!

Surely these are not real people and every poster is a wind-up merchant !:confused:

[1875godsgift]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220274

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/1171414112.gif

To be honest, I used to hate rangers fans because they're a bunch of thick inbred sectarian c***s who would s**t in my stairwell when they came to Easter Road.
Now I think they're a bunch of thick inbred sectarian c***s who can't s**t in my stairwell because I don't live there anymore.
Scottish football needs rangers my archie.

[StevieC]

Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

[bighairyfaeleith]

Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

A CVA is very unlikely to happen, Green knows this and is just playing to the gallery. Liquidation will happen and the fight will then begin over which new rangers is allowed back in, blue knights gers or green gers

[McD]

Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

In regards to the 28 day cooling off period, I assume that a creditor(s) has the full 28 days to lodge an objection?

If so, bearing in mind the nonsense thats gone on so far, would anyone put it past HMRC (or any other creditor) to wait till the last moment then object, therefore dragging the process out further and making it much difficult to get at newco/cva in place before next season? :devil:

[down-the-slope]

Is there much difference between the current bid and the Miller bid. Both seem to have. Been based on meeting certain criteria prior to completion, with little chance of the criteria being met. Miller needed the figures to be right for completion .. they weren't, and he stated as much when he said that D&P were more than a little optimistic with the figures. The Green bid seems to be hingeing on a CVA that has little chance of success. D&P have even been careful to point out the 28 day cooling off period, I'm assuming in anticipation of a court related objection (HMRC?).
I could be wrong but this doesn't seem as cut and dried as some of the media/Huns are making out?

Maybe..my thinking is that he (and who ever the 20 investors behind him are :rolleyes:) are really wanting a NewCo as that is clean and a cheap way to get the assets / brand / money making vehicle without all the baggage.....BUT they have to be seen to try CVA for PR reasons and to placate the moronic masses...when that fails they can blame everyone else, say they tried and explain that due to this we are forced to cut cut cut...but please turn up and Support your club / buy ST's XXXXL shirts etc.

The irony is there is plenty money to make out of Rangers if costs are controlled as it does not need that much to be compeditive in SPL - given the level of 'investment' (less Than Murray paid for Tore Andre Flo lets not forget :greengrin)if you can bury the debt and don't mind living without morals then its a winner :rolleyes:

[Lucius Apuleius]

So when do the fixtures come out for next season?

[Brebners Bookie]

Anyone know how the SPL get away with making any vote on a newco an 8-4 vote? Surely as important a decision as this should fall under the umbrella of the OFs precious 11-1 vote.:rolleyes:

Was wondering this myself. As usual our highly professional investigative journalists have let this important talking point pass them by.

[Eric]

So when do the fixtures come out for next season?

If previous seasons are anything to go by, in the week commencing 17 June.:thumbsup:

[Sylar]

Delighted to see that Livingston intend to sue the SFL if the sanctions imposed on Rangers are overturned.

Decided to have a quick glance on FollowFollow at their thoughts on this and the level of ignorance on the subject is beyond laughable.

I dare say my post making points to this effect may see me banned right enough, but hey ho :greengrin

[VickMackie]

Anyone got a link to this Livingston legal action?

I fail to see how that could work against the SFL given that it's separate from the SPL. Maybe a case against the SFAX?

[Sylar]

Anyone got a link to this Livingston legal action?

I fail to see how that could work against the SFL given that it's separate from the SPL. Maybe a case against the SFAX?

The appeals committee which will oversee Rangers transfer embargo appeal is comprised of SFL/SFA members rather than SPL and will be the same "body" which overseen Livingston's punishment and subsequent appeal, hence why they'll be able to take action.

I don't have a link, but it was discussed on Sportsound last night.

[VickMackie]

Thanks. That makes sense.

[PatHead]

Had a look on Follow Follow and came up with this gem

"Rangers were the victim of whytes actions. Can you imagine a victim of crime being told it was your fault and you are being punished?"

They don't get it do they. For any Teddy Bears reading....................... Your club were fu%%ed before Craig Whyte came along. All the Directors, especially SDM and CW have systematically raped your club and the taxpayer over a number of years whilst shafting Scottish football. That is why you should and are being penalised. For what it is worth you do not have a hope in hell of a CVA and will be liquidated as your assets are worth far more than the offer from Green. Green and friends will then buy the club lock, stock and barrell and pass it into a newco.

[ScottB]

Had a look on Follow Follow and came up with this gem

"Rangers were the victim of whytes actions. Can you imagine a victim of crime being told it was your fault and you are being punished?"

They don't get it do they. For any Teddy Bears reading....................... Your club were fu%%ed before Craig Whyte came along. All the Directors, especially SDM and CW have systematically raped your club and the taxpayer over a number of years whilst shafting Scottish football. That is why you should and are being penalised. For what it is worth you do not have a hope in hell of a CVA and will be liquidated as your assets are worth far more than the offer from Green. Green and friends will then buy the club lock, stock and barrell and pass it into a newco.

Even if you take that argument at face value, what did the club do to stop him? What did the Bains and the 'Good Rangers Men' like Greg do? Oh yeah, they either bailed out or said nothing. What did the fans do? They turned on any bit of media that was trying to warn them, like the Rangers Tax Case Blog, while they lapped up the Record and co's nonsense about Whyte's off the radar, billionaire wealth.

So to use this chumps analogy, it'd be like expecting your insurance to pay out for your house being robbed by a burglar that you invited in after your neighbour telling you that's what they were, then just sat there and watched them loot the place.

[jodjam]

It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

[Winston Ingram]

Channel 4 Graphic on Rangers

8256

[jonty]

From @alextomo

8229


(should be clickable to be seen larger)
Yours is too small mainboy :greengrin

http://p.twimg.com/AsnaJ9YCMAAbm36.jpg:large

Alex Thomson explains the graphic

http://bcove.me/97nmpxfm

[magpie1892]

It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

Possible, but highly unlikely. They're going to be liquidated, and they know it.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's probably been brought up already but could this be a likely scenario ;

CVA accepted at whatever in the pound.
HMRC , further to this, agree some sort of payment plan with huns stretching over a number of years.

Would leave them financially jiggered for a few years but allow them to carry on.

HMRC can't get any more in the £ than any other creditor, if that's what you mean.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whats stopping Rangers doing a deal with the tax man, with say £10m a year for 15 years if the debt is £150m, with a bit extra at the end in interest? Or do the HMRC not do deals like this?

Is this too simple, as it does seem the best outcome for them and the tax payers?:confused:

[Caversham Green]

Even if you take that argument at face value, what did the club do to stop him? What did the Bains and the 'Good Rangers Men' like Greg do? Oh yeah, they either bailed out or said nothing. What did the fans do? They turned on any bit of media that was trying to warn them, like the Rangers Tax Case Blog, while they lapped up the Record and co's nonsense about Whyte's off the radar, billionaire wealth.

So to use this chumps analogy, it'd be like expecting your insurance to pay out for your house being robbed by a burglar that you invited in after your neighbour telling you that's what they were, then just sat there and watched them loot the place.

Just to add to that, the amount they withheld from HMRC (and will not now repay so effectively they stole it) is equivalent to the total annual turnover of Hibs and Hearts combined. That's money that Ranger FC - not Craig Whyte, who made no personal gain from it - used towards an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of the league.

[CropleyWasGod]

Whats stopping Rangers doing a deal with the tax man, with say £10m a year for 15 years if the debt is £150m, with a bit extra at the end in interest? Or do the HMRC not do deals like this?

Is this too simple, as it does seem the best outcome for them and the tax payers?:confused:

HMRC can agree to payment by instalment, and often do. However, I have never heard of anything longer than 3 years. 15 years would be a real departure. Also:-

1. the interest on that might double the amount due.

2. it would set a precedent, and every slow taxpayer in the country would want the same deal.

[blackpoolhibs]

HMRC can offer time to pay, and often do. However, I have never heard of anything longer than 3 years. 15 years would be a real departure. Also:-

1. the interest on that might double the amount due.

2. it would set a precedent, and every slow taxpayer in the country would want the same deal.

Thanks, i knew there would be a simple answer why it couldn't work. I like the 3 years deal though, that would smart a little. :greengrin

[Brando7]

So creditors meeting on 9th June if agreed there a 28 day cooling off period agaainst objections so we now around 7th July 3-4 wks before the new season starts, if the CVA agreed then somone objects n they try to form a newco no chance it be done in 3-4wks

just hope to god the 30th May meeting does not get put on hold again which i'm goot a feeling it might & wot happens with the Sky deal, they gona sit about till 3 wks beforew the season starts to get a deal put in place?

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks, i knew there would be a simple answer why it couldn't work. I like the 3 years deal though, that would smart a little. :greengrin

That's unlikely too, although very attractive. :greengrin

As I said above, HMRC will get the same p/£ as everyone else, whether in a CVA or liquidation. In theory, that will be payable more or less immediately.

[CropleyWasGod]

So creditors meeting on 9th June if agreed there a 28 day cooling off period agaainst objections so we now around 7th July 3-4 wks before the new season starts, if the CVA agreed then somone objects n they try to form a newco no chance it be done in 3-4wks

just hope to god the 30th May meeting does not get put on hold again which i'm goot a feeling it might & wot happens with the Sky deal, they gona sit about till 3 wks beforew the season starts to get a deal put in place?

A company can be formed in a matter of hours.

The transferring of the main assets shouldn't take very long. IIRC, there are agreed terms for that already, so there should be no negotiation needed. The problem, to my mind, is the player situation and the licence.

Sky will wait.. they can afford to, indeed are probably in the stronger postion.

[ancienthibby]

A company can be formed in a matter of hours.

The transferring of the main assets shouldn't take very long. IIRC, there are agreed terms for that already, so there should be no negotiation needed. The problem, to my mind, is the player situation and the licence.

Sky will wait.. they can afford to, indeed are probably in the stronger postion.

If liquidation is now the most likely outcome, why would HMRC not use a vehicle company and buy Hunbox for £10 million and then lease it to Newco for £2 million a year in perpetuity?:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

If liquidation is now the most likely outcome, why would HMRC not use a vehicle company and buy Hunbox for £10 million and then lease it to Newco for £2 million a year in perpetuity?:aok:

Tis a lovely thought, but probably totally illegal.:greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Tis a lovely thought, but probably totally illegal.:greengrin

May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!:greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!:greengrin

I'm surprised Ticketus don't fancy it. Why worry about 3 years when you can have a lifetimes worth?

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm surprised Ticketus don't fancy it. Why worry about 3 years when you can have a lifetimes worth?

... especially if they can use the money they're suing CW for. :greengrin

[Gingertosser]

How about the taxman accepts the CVA (at the moment the debt is only £40ish million)

Then when the BTC hits they can then issue Rangers with a winding up order, and then they would be the main Creditor.

Would they have more of a say in how Rangers would come out of another admin period if they had 75-100% of the debt ?

[CropleyWasGod]

How about the taxman accepts the CVA (at the moment the debt is only £40ish million)

Then when the BTC hits they can then issue Rangers with a winding up order, and then they would be the main Creditor.

Would they have more of a say in how Rangers would come out of another admin period if they had 75-100% of the debt ?

The BTC is part of the Creditors, at the amount already claimed by HMRC. It would have to be part of the CVA.

[Caversham Green]

Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/two-sides-of-the-same-coin.17596205

[CropleyWasGod]

Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/two-sides-of-the-same-coin.17596205

Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him? :greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him? :greengrin

We already know that you are Dr Beeching.:na na:

Cav G is just a young whippersnapper!:greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Are you or I Dr. Beech?

And is the one of us that's not Dr.Beech going to send an invoice to him? :greengrin

We are all Doctor Beech and Dr Beech is everyone.

In fact life's a Beech.

[greenginger]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2143970/Charles-Green-I-wont-sack-Ally-McCoist.html


" I left Sheffield Utd with no debts and cash in the bank "

So reads the statement from the Gers latest fantasist saviour. Green left the club in June 1998 and I treated myself to a copy of their accounts for year to June 1998 when i was at Companies House. ( Getting my copy of the Yams comedy book )


Some Figures from the accounts the year he left the club with NO debt.

Operating Loss £ 6,076,000

Nett Current Liabilities £ 4,586,000

Nett Cash Outflow £ 1,353,000

Nett Debt at 30/6/1998 £ 5,437,000


And the weegie football press continue to print any garbage a Hun saviour says without question or checking. You would think after the Motherwell born Billionaire had made total idiots of them they might have been a bit more cautious.

THe Huns and the Hun loving Press deserve each other. :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2143970/Charles-Green-I-wont-sack-Ally-McCoist.html


" I left Sheffield Utd with debts and no cash in the bank "

S:

Fixed that for you.

[Golden Bear]

Interesting. (but I suspect that it will not make any difference to the way things pan out)


http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/livingston/99924-livingston-threaten-legal-action-against-scottish-fa-over-rangers-situation/

[ballengeich]

May be illegal for HMRC, but it would be a route for ANO?

If the Greyskullers dump the taxpayer with £137 million of losses, even more do I love the thought of them having to rent back the old home for ever!

At least some degree of sweet revenge!:greengrin

I think it's previously been suggested that ANO is already in place. It would be a way for Rangers Leech to make his profit.

[grunt]

Another expert's view - more like what me and Croppers have been saying all along...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/two-sides-of-the-same-coin.17596205
I like what Dr Beech says and the way he says it. "They will pursue with maximum prejudice" - sounds like something out of a Die Hard movie.
I'm less happy with Professor David Hillier of Strathclyde University's take on things.

[ancienthibby]

I think it's previously been suggested that ANO is already in place. It would be a way for Rangers Leech to make his profit.

I did not mean an ANO from within the camp.

I meant a new player, yet to declare!

It can be done:agree:

[HibeeMG]

Given the success of the original and the best - Yamematics - and the wealth of material from our beloved Hun friends I thought it was about time we had a sequel.

QUANTUM - To the rest of the English speaking world this would be 'value'. 'Quantum' is to be used to convince the blue hordes that the people deciding the fate of their club are intelligent.

COMPANY VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT (CVA) - A financial instrument to force all creditors to accept whatever 'quantum' of money they find lying under the sofa's of Ibrox players' lounge.

NEWCO - Exactly the same as the OldCo without the debts. Nothing's changed. Move along, nothing to see here.


There's some for starters. I'm sure the more enlightened of you will be able to think up some more.

:wink:

[ballengeich]

I did not mean an ANO from within the camp.

I meant a new player, yet to declare!

It can be done:agree:

That raises the question of what happens if a cva is declined and an offer appears which beats Rangers Leech's agreed bid to set up a Newco. There's a lot more entertainment to come.

[ancienthibby]

That raises the question of what happens if a cva is declined and an offer appears which beats Rangers Leech's agreed bid to set up a Newco. There's a lot more entertainment to come.

Agreed.

The NewHuns could still be paying extortionate rent for playing in their 'own' stadium:greengrin

[cad]

Rangers appeal QC tomorrow is

ONE of the leading legal brains in the UK will spearhead Rangers' appeal against a season-long transfer embargo tomorrow.

Mr Richard Keen QC has been hired to fight the Ibrox club's corner after a Judicial Panel took the highly punitive action for "bringing the game into disrepute" at a hearing last month.

The main thrust for reaching this decision was over the non-payment of PAYE and VAT. They judged that although Craig Whyte made this decision, other directors should have known and done something about it.

Rangers put forward a compelling case that Craig Whyte was acting alone and Mr Keen will be reinforcing this view over the appeals process which could last two or three days.

Sitting on the Appeals panel are Lord Carloway, Spartans chairman Craig Graham and former Partick Thistle chairman Allan Cowan.

Manager Ally McCoist has already indicated how disastrous it would be for the club if the transfer embargo remained as it would not only prevent Rangers from signing players but lead to current stars leaving.

Mr Keen is Dean of the Faculty of Advocates in Scotland and famously acted for Al Amin Fhimah, who was acquitted at the Lockerbie Bomb trial in Holland in 2001.


You couldnt write this honestly , Donald Findlay will be involved somewhere as a character witness






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZDxkTkbVG8&feature=related

[SurferRosa]

[QUOTE=cad;3227966]Rangers appeal QC tomorrow is

ONE of the leading legal brains in the UK will spearhead Rangers' appeal against a season-long transfer embargo tomorrow.

Mr Richard Keen QC has been hired to fight the Ibrox club's corner after a Judicial Panel took the highly punitive action for "bringing the game into disrepute" at a hearing last month.

The main thrust for reaching this decision was over the non-payment of PAYE and VAT. They judged that although Craig Whyte made this decision, other directors should have known and done something about it.

Rangers put forward a compelling case that Craig Whyte was acting alone and Mr Keen will be reinforcing this view over the appeals process which could last two or three days.

Sitting on the Appeals panel are Lord Carloway, Spartans chairman Craig Graham and former Partick Thistle chairman Allan Cowan.

Manager Ally McCoist has already indicated how disastrous it would be for the club if the transfer embargo remained as it would not only prevent Rangers from signing players but lead to current stars leaving.

Mr Keen is Dean of the Faculty of Advocates in Scotland and famously acted for Al Amin Fhimah, who was acquitted at the Lockerbie Bomb trial in Holland in 2001.


You couldnt write this honestly , Donald Findlay will be involved somewhere as a character witness


I wonder how much of the CVA pot his fee will use up.

[One Day Soon]

Mr Richard Keen has a number of areas of current and previous expertise in his playbook.

Most hilariously this one:

"tie Limited v Bilfinger Berger and Others (2011)
Richard is currently instructed on behalf of tie with respect to claims arising out of and in respect of the construction of the Edinburgh Tram Network.

TIE, the company which brought us trams project mismanagement on an intergalactic scale, is of course nothing like Rangers. One is a financially dubious institution, lacking in effective corporate governance, leaderless, has run out of financial control for some years and is now at the mercy of much wider forces. The other is, er,...

I wonder if the Greek government has considered engaging Mr Keen's services too?

[Brando7]

found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.

[poolman]

found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.


That's a really good, interesting post :agree:

I think once this debacle has all been sorted and done and dusted the powers that be at :hnet:should make this thread into a book in time for Xmas :greengrin

We could also send a copy to Sally Mcoist :greengrin

[WindyMiller]

The fact that this has been a very high profile affair and has ran on now for 3 months (with more to come, I think), should mean that the SFA will have great difficulty sweeping this under the carpet as Uefa will be all over them if they try it.

[green glory]

SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

[TheEastTerrace]

found this on a tic site


The Battered Bunnet on 15 May, 2012 at 14:16 said:

Well played Rod Petrie. I think our own Leadership will need to declare Celtic’s position ahead of the vote, but the situation remains complicated by D&P/Green’s insistence on performing the CVA charade.

My sense is that while this CVA charade is being played out, the Green People are busying themselves with creating the structure that will permit NewClub to be Licensed in time for next season. In essence, in a short number of days the SFA and SPL will know the intention of the Green People, but will be bound from revealing that to the rest of us by non disclosure terms.

Meantime, we have the SPL Inquiry into the issue of the invalid Registration of Players by Rangers. D&P, acting in their capacity as Court Appointed Managers of Rangers, are obliged to cooperate fully with the governing bodies of the game, acting at all times according to the various Articles, Rules and Contracts regulating Rangers’ participation in the Game in Scotland.

They are obliged to disclose any and all relevant information requested, albeit that disclosure of documents that form evidence presented to the Tax Tribunal may be subject to restrictions.

Nevertheless, what the SPL have asked Harper McLeod’s top legal brains to undertake is essentially a simple Quality Audit. Such a process is very straightforward, requiring little more than a clear description of the Process and Procedures in question, and a comparison of Rangers’ actions against that Process to determine Compliance.

My understanding is that Rangers registered around 75 players in the period in question whose registrations may be questionable.

The SPL will have provided Harper McLeod with a written Instruction that includes Methodology, Deliverables, Stage Gates and Timescales. A formal brief.

As with any audit, a sample of transactions will have been tested initially. This is a practical approach that prevents unnecessary expense from being incurred. Harper McLeod will initally have tested perhaps 10 Regostrations against the defined Process. The results of this will have been reported on within a short timescale, at which point the Brief reached a Stage Gate, and the SPL will have had a decision to make on whether to proceed or not.

If the testing revealed no breaches of Process,the purpose of the audit has been satisfied,and it is likely that the Instruction will have been terminated, and the book closed.

More likely, the testing has identified one or more breaches of Process, and the SPL decision will have extended the Instruction to investigate all relevant transactions to quantify and qualify the extent of the breaches.

It takes around one hour to audit a transaction, if you’re really, really slow. I’ll betya even BlantyreKev could do one in less than 55 minutes. All you require is the relevant Documents and the defined Process. Follow the trail. Was the Process implemented properly? Yes/No. Tick/Cross. Next.

The initial brief was provided on 5th MArch or thereabouts. The SPL knew the result of the initial testing when they received the draft report weeks ago. It is likely that they have instructed a full audit, which would have been completed within 100 labour hours. Perhaps further issues have arisen, and the Auditors are testing other related Processes.

Whatever the situation, it is a given that the Final Report is not delayed by Harper McLeod’s diffidence or restraint.

The consequences of breaches of Player Registration are profound. A player whose registration is invalid, is INELIGIBLE to play. Rangers are suspected of invalidly registering around 75 players, who subsequently participated in as many as 500 SPL matches.

The purpose behind the breaches in Registration was to disguise a multi-million pound fraud on the Treasury, itself conceived to gain competitive advantage on the football pitch, which subsequently delivered 6 Champions League participations worth some £20M per season.

Additionally, Rangers were awarded an additional £1.5M per season in results related SPL prize money over and above participation fees.

The economic benefits to Rangers of this approach to Tax and Football regulation, is in the order of £50M of payroll costs saved, and in excess of £100M of SPL and UEFA prize money won. Perhaps as much as £200 Million of benefit in total.

During the period of this ‘irregular’ approach to regulation, Rangers Directors Campbell Ogilvie, John McClelland and Martin Bain were at various times Directors of the SPL. McClelland was Chairman of Rangers during the period of acceleration in the use of these schemes while being SPL Director 2003-2005.

He was also a member of UEFA’s Club Competition Committee and a member of the European Club Association.

Martin Bain was an SPL Director from 2008 to 2011, a period in which Rangers use of the Tax scheme continued despite HMRC having determined that it was illegal in 2008, and submitting a £36M demand for payment that same year.

Campbell Ogilvie was a SPL Director for a short period only at inception, while simultaneously a Director of Rangers and Director and then Vice President of the SFA.

Bain and Ogilvie we now know were benficiares of the EBT scheme, in addition to being responsible for implementing it.

Rangers, if the allegation is held, will have breached a number of SPL Articles and Rules, the most significant of which is the undertaking to act ‘in the utmost good faith’ to the SPL and member clubs at all times.

Rangers in such a situation, will have rendered the SPL a meaningless circus since its inception in 1998.

The only reasonable sanction for such a breach of faith is expulsion from the SPL.

The results of this inquiry are germane to the integrity of the competitions run by the SFA, the SFL and UEFA. Each in turn will require to consider any appropriate measures for Rangers having breached their Articles and Rules, and corrupted their competitions in the same manner as the SPL’s.

At face value, the outcome is a given: Expulsion.

However, this is Scotland, and it seems the Rules of the Game are applied to everyone equally, except Rangers, without whom we would….. well, we would have honest competition and a fair Game.

Think that was written by Tony McKelvie - worth following him on Twitter for the ins and outs of this saga

[calmac12000]

SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

It also gives the SFA more time to think of an excuse for exonarating Rangers.

[Sylar]

SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.

[greenginger]

They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.


Or maybe putting it off until after the Cup Final to defuse the Huns assault on Hampden.

[hibs0666]

Doddle (http://scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3390)

[Jim44]

SFA appeal verdict won't be coming. Need more time to deliberate apparently.

Anything that causes more uncertainty in Hunland is good in my book.

I thought the meeting was sceduled for later today.

[IWasThere2016]

They didn't require more time when it Livingston - they couldn't wait to deliver their verdict!

More time to deliberate = more time to justify excusing Rangers and waiving the sanctions in my eyes.

Strange IMHO when one is as loathesome as the other for me :greengrin

[hibs0666]

I thought the meeting was sceduled for later today.

It is, but it is expected that a decision might not be reached for a couple of days depending upon the weight of evidence presented by the huns.

[Golden Bear]

I thought the meeting was sceduled for later today.

It is Jim. However as per usual they may require additional information before arriving at a verdict so that could delay proceedings.

And in any case they would be wise to postpone any verdict until after Saturday's final.

[IWasThere2016]

Doddle (http://scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3390)

Just emailed Sportsound to see if their apologists can argue with that .. Get the Rangers (and their secterian bile) out! :agree:

Some one should email RP also.

[TrickyNicky]

Doddle (http://scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3390)

Some brilliant info there !

[Just Alf]

Paul McConville's blog updated

Rangers Administration – In Court Again on Friday 18th May

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/rangers-administration-in-court-again-on-friday-18th-may-7/#comments

[cad]

The fact that this has been a very high profile affair and has ran on now for 3 months (with more to come, I think), should mean that the SFA will have great difficulty sweeping this under the carpet as Uefa will be all over them if they try it.



The way I look at it is the SFA are just as much on trial as Rangers ,through there sheer incompetence bias and general feckupedness in running Scotlands football clubs the entire fabric of our football is up for a change whatever happens .

You could ask why a footballing governing body Uefa is having to hand out fines for sectarianism for instance , when you, would have thought our own governments stand point would have been the order of the day ,maybe the police didnt get Eck`s note ,Im sure he spoke about stamping this out positive he did ,its just with money being tight ,getting the arrest figures up I see 5,000 -40,000 Celtic and Rangers supporters every week having a sing song must be easy to catch , theyre locked in , on TV and CC TV ,a plethora of photographers its a dawdle to catch them evidence a plenty pictures sound witnesses yet,
I ask myself , maybe Im hearing things when Im at Easter Road or watching a game on TV, I looked in many papers the following day see how many got collared zip ,zilch , heehaw how is that .

Then I thought about integrity ethics , corruption ,lies ,theft, misleading, half truths ,bias ,votes ,accountability ,turning a blind eye , fcek you jack Im alright ,
then I thought hey dafty get a grip thats how its running now government backed to ,be interesting to see what happens at the end of all this if nothing else it proves a hell of a lot about Scotland and how its run,badly ,very badly IMO .


GGTTH

[killie-hibby]

Doddle (http://scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3390)



I agree with scottish that the SPL will survive without Rangers although I dont understand his calculation that Hibs would only need 98 additional supporters at each game.

My own calculations show,assuming the Cheats have two games at ER we need to make up a shortfall of 3700 X 2 = 7400 at £28 =£207200. To earn £207200 at category 2 games we need to bring in over the 19 home games 9418 additional customers. Or 496 per game. 248 if we had one Cheats game at ER.
The additional 496 or 248 customers is more than achievable as the league without the Cheats would be more competitive. I believe over a season we (Hibs) would be financially better off due to reduced policing costs,more supporters through the gate by virtue of a competitive league where "sporting integrity" reigns.

[Hibercelona]

Just emailed Sportsound to see if their apologists can argue with that .. Get the Rangers (and their secterian bile) out! :agree:

Some one should email RP also.

Don't expect a reply or any acknowledgement, it doesn't suite their OF saving agendas.

"We're doomed" they'll continue to tell us in the tabloids and on the television. "The big hoose must stay open" they'll continue to say.

[JeMeSouviens]

I agree with scottish that the SPL will survive without Rangers although I dont understand his calculation that Hibs would only need 98 additional supporters at each game.

My own calculations show,assuming the Cheats have two games at ER we need to make up a shortfall of 3700 X 2 = 7400 at £28 =£207200. To earn £207200 at category 2 games we need to bring in over the 19 home games 9418 additional customers. Or 496 per game. 248 if we had one Cheats game at ER.
The additional 496 or 248 customers is more than achievable as the league without the Cheats would be more competitive. I believe over a season we (Hibs) would be financially better off due to reduced policing costs,more supporters through the gate by virtue of a competitive league where "sporting integrity" reigns.

He's taken the average crowd for games against non-OF teams and subtracted the attendance at Huns' games (averaged if the team had them at home twice).

Since the away end at ER is full of Huns when they come and the crowd is only 1871 above the average of other games, then ~1500 less Hibbies attend games v Huns than on average, assuming the average away support is ~500.

[MB62]

I agree with scottish that the SPL will survive without Rangers although I dont understand his calculation that Hibs would only need 98 additional supporters at each game.

My own calculations show,assuming the Cheats have two games at ER we need to make up a shortfall of 3700 X 2 = 7400 at £28 =£207200. To earn £207200 at category 2 games we need to bring in over the 19 home games 9418 additional customers. Or 496 per game. 248 if we had one Cheats game at ER.
The additional 496 or 248 customers is more than achievable as the league without the Cheats would be more competitive. I believe over a season we (Hibs) would be financially better off due to reduced policing costs,more supporters through the gate by virtue of a competitive league where "sporting integrity" reigns.

You would 100% be able to include me in those figures. I don't go to Cat A games now because financially I cannot justify paying over £28 for a game I can watch in the comfort of my house, having already paid for it. However, there is every chance I would be paying £22 quid to go watch Hibs v Dundee for example on a Saturday at 3.00pm rather than NOT watching rangers at 12.30pm on a Sunday.

[Fergus52]

Just emailed Sportsound to see if their apologists can argue with that .. Get the Rangers (and their secterian bile) out! :agree:

Some one should email RP also.

definately, if he could show that to the oher SPL chairman hopefully it could make some sort of difference when they vote on the newco rules.

[hibs0666]

I agree with scottish that the SPL will survive without Rangers although I dont understand his calculation that Hibs would only need 98 additional supporters at each game.

My own calculations show,assuming the Cheats have two games at ER we need to make up a shortfall of 3700 X 2 = 7400 at £28 =£207200. To earn £207200 at category 2 games we need to bring in over the 19 home games 9418 additional customers. Or 496 per game. 248 if we had one Cheats game at ER.
The additional 496 or 248 customers is more than achievable as the league without the Cheats would be more competitive. I believe over a season we (Hibs) would be financially better off due to reduced policing costs,more supporters through the gate by virtue of a competitive league where "sporting integrity" reigns.

The guys point is that the huns do not bring an extra 3800 - the increase in attendance when compared to an average non-OF game is only 1900. Averaging out the top/bottom 6 finshes then we'll lose 3000 huns @ £28 = £84K.

However, factor back in the extra £70K or so for finishing higher in the league then the cash shortfall is only £14K. This can be made up through 35 more punters per game @ £22 or just 40 more season tickets @ £350. :thumbsup:

Let them burn! :flag:

[Just Alf]

I'm also thinking about it from another angle....

Those teams that vote FOR the Newc, OK, they'll have the Huns at their games (maybe)

They wont however have Us, Celtic, Yams, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen + others AND they'll be losing a lot of their home support as well......
Does losing all that really cover for having the Huns 2 maybe 4 times a season?

:confused:

[calmac12000]

The way I look at it is the SFA are just as much on trial as Rangers ,through there sheer incompetence bias and general feckupedness in running Scotlands football clubs the entire fabric of our football is up for a change whatever happens .

You could ask why a footballing governing body Uefa is having to hand out fines for sectarianism for instance , when you, would have thought our own governments stand point would have been the order of the day ,maybe the police didnt get Eck`s note ,Im sure he spoke about stamping this out positive he did ,its just with money being tight ,getting the arrest figures up I see 5,000 -40,000 Celtic and Rangers supporters every week having a sing song must be easy to catch , theyre locked in , on TV and CC TV ,a plethora of photographers its a dawdle to catch them evidence a plenty pictures sound witnesses yet,
I ask myself , maybe Im hearing things when Im at Easter Road or watching a game on TV, I looked in many papers the following day see how many got collared zip ,zilch , heehaw how is that .

Then I thought about integrity ethics , corruption ,lies ,theft, misleading, half truths ,bias ,votes ,accountability ,turning a blind eye , fcek you jack Im alright ,
then I thought hey dafty get a grip thats how its running now government backed to ,be interesting to see what happens at the end of all this if nothing else it proves a hell of a lot about Scotland and how its run,badly ,very badly IMO .


GGTTH

About sums up the views of the majority of non-OF fans in fact I'll broaden that to say most non-Rangers supporters. Since the latter seem to be the only support in Scotland who assume it is perfectly acceptable to sing offensive sectarian crap. Which their apologists dress up as an expression of their so-called British identity, resembling no such identity I am aware of in the country.

[killie-hibby]

Thanks hibs0666 and JeMeSouviens for clarifying the calculations in the OP.

[Gez1875]

Don't expect a reply or any acknowledgement, it doesn't suite their OF saving agendas.

"We're doomed" they'll continue to tell us in the tabloids and on the television. "The big hoose must stay open" they'll continue to say.

exactly! they dont want to entertain the idea of not having rangers, they make up and only acknowledge stats that suite their own opinion. My favourite being sky would walk away form the t.v deal with no rangers fc involved........well, is there a rangers in the blue square conference? no! but they have a deal. the first thing the other clubs have to do is fight for an even split of the t.v money right down the middle, there going down this route in spain. once this is done, only celtic will suffer financially, even without rangers, and less money coming in from sky, the other clubs will benefit getting an even split of this than a 3% share of the current deal. i agree with tom english if any team in the spl rely on 2 visits from rangers a year then they shouldnt be in the spl.

[CentreLine]

What I have difficulty understanding is the clamour from Doncaster, journalists, some clubs and supporters, et al, to talk down the SPL product. All they are doing is effectively ensuring that SKY or any other bidder, comes to the table with a laughable offer and an enormous file of quotes. No company can have rubbished their product more thoroughly since the jeweller (was it Ratner?) MD said in public they made big money selling “crap” and the whole business went mammary glands up :crazy:

[jacomo]

What I have difficulty understanding is the clamour from Doncaster, journalists, some clubs and supporters, et al, to talk down the SPL product. All they are doing is effectively ensuring that SKY or any other bidder, comes to the table with a laughable offer and an enormous file of quotes. No company can have rubbished their product more thoroughly since the jeweller (was it Ratner?) MD said in public they made big money selling “crap” and the whole business went mammary glands up :crazy:

Does anyone think Doncaster is any more than a mediocre middle-manager, patently out of his depth? Don't expect vision or leadership from him.

[bingo70]

Does anyone think Doncaster is any more than a mediocre middle-manager, patently out of his depth? Don't expect vision or leadership from him.

I Cannae take him seriously since I saw him on that game show the chase.

Boy kens his quizzes but its doing an awful job at the SPL imo

[JeMeSouviens]

Probably not much new for avid followers of this thread but could be worth tuning into:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k

[SurferRosa]

I'm also thinking about it from another angle....

Those teams that vote FOR the Newc, OK, they'll have the Huns at their games (maybe)

They wont however have Us, Celtic, Yams, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen + others AND they'll be losing a lot of their home support as well......
Does losing all that really cover for having the Huns 2 maybe 4 times a season?

:confused:

No, i would suggest it doesn`t. Clubs need their own support more i would have thought. They are certainly deserving of the clubs respect and consideration more than a few thousand Huns.

However, i think that the Scottish football fans collective bluff is about to be called. I think they`ll gamble that it`s all talk and the majority of fans will be there next season.

It`s a dangerous game they could be about to play..

[Hibs Class]

What's happened with their appeal today? Cannot see anything on the Beeb nor on here?

[marinello59]

What's happened with their appeal today? Cannot see anything on the Beeb nor on here?

I think the hearing is this evening.

[Hibs Class]

I think the hearing is this evening.

Ta. Still assumed it would be like previous matchdays, with a build-up to the event followed by the results later on, but if you were relying on the BBC you wouldn't know it was happening.

[Jim44]

I think the hearing is this evening.

It takes place this evening but two or three people on this thread said that they think that no decision will be made tonight. Where they heard this I have no idea. This has just been confirmed on the BBC. IIRC it took one one meeting to find them guilty and sentence them but it's going to take several days to listen to an appeal. Something makes me uneasy about this.

[snooky]

No, i would suggest it doesn`t. Clubs need their own support more i would have thought. They are certainly deserving of the clubs respect and consideration more than a few thousand Huns.

However, i think that the Scottish football fans collective bluff is about to be called. I think they`ll gamble that it`s all talk and the majority of fans will be there next season.


It`s a dangerous game they could be about to play..
:agree:
A lot of fans have just about had it with Scottish football as it is, without all the RFC cairry on.

[WindyMiller]

Probably not much new for avid followers of this thread but could be worth tuning into:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k


Mark Daly was the first reporter to seriously challenge Whyte ,and caused the Beeb to be banned from match interviews of Rangers.

Doesn't seem to be one of the succulent lamb munchers (sookers?).

[Lungo--Drom]

I am sure Sir Petrie of Tacheville has a spreadsheet on his computer which has worked everything out to the nearest 1p ;)

Knowing he has means I sleep easy at nights :D


The guys point is that the huns do not bring an extra 3800 - the increase in attendance when compared to an average non-OF game is only 1900. Averaging out the top/bottom 6 finshes then we'll lose 3000 huns @ £28 = £84K.

However, factor back in the extra £70K or so for finishing higher in the league then the cash shortfall is only £14K. This can be made up through 35 more punters per game @ £22 or just 40 more season tickets @ £350. :thumbsup:

Let them burn! :flag:

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k#programme-broadcasts

Next wed 23 May 2012 20:00 BBC One

Looking forward to this :)

[Brando7]

I think the hearing is this evening.

6pm i heard it was on, mind they didnt issue findings till 10pm last time.. I however think this will be delayed till after the cup final to aviod possible march again they were planning for sat

[cad]

6pm i heard it was on, mind they didnt issue findings till 10pm last time.. I however think this will be delayed till after the cup final to aviod possible march again they were planning for sat



You ever get that feeling we have to plan every ****** thing around Rangers instead off telling them what to do ,hopefully they will be getting well telt this evening.

[Jim44]

6pm i heard it was on, mind they didnt issue findings till 10pm last time.. I however think this will be delayed till after the cup final to aviod possible march again they were planning for sat

A few posts up the page a bit you will see that I posted on this. There is no thinking a deferral will be made. BBC reported it will take several days to reach a decision.

[Just Alf]

good comment from the 'Tic "Quick News" site

-----------------------------------


The Battered Bunnet on 16 May, 2012 at 20:47 said:


At a ‘virtual’ Creditors’ Meeting on 20th April, Duff and Phelps, the Adminstrators of Fubar FC, asked the Creditors of the Company to vote on a series of Resolutions, such that with Creditors would authorise the Administrators to take certain actions on behalf of the Creditors.

Each Resolution required 50% of the total value of the Creditors to vote in favour in order that the Administrators be so authorised.

One of the key Resolutions asked the Creditors to authorise the Admininstrators to sell the assets of Fubar FC in whole or in part without further reference to the Creditors. I have pasted the relevant text below:

17.1.4 That the Joint Administrators can explore any and all options available to realise the assets of the Company without recourse to creditors. The Joint Administrators be authorised to conclude a sale of the whole, or part of the business, property and assets of the Company without having to obtain the sanction of the Company.s creditors at further creditors meetings, upon such terms as the Joint Administrators deem fit and they be authorised to liaise with all relevant parties, bodies or organisations which they deem relevant for achieving that purpose.

The Insolvency Act requires the Administrators to report the outcome of the votes at the Creditors’ Meeting to be notified to the Court and Companies House “as soon as reasonably practicable”.

To date Companies House is showing no such notification, and depsite being in front of Lord Hodge at Court last week, no information on the outcome of this critical meeting was presented. As I write, we do not know whether the Administrators have been authorised to sell the business and/or assets of Fubar FC.

This of course is all very well and good technically, but there is a rather practical aspect to it: According to press statements given in recent days, Charles Green is ‘irrevocably’ obliged to purchase the whole of the business and assets of Fubar FC in the event that the Creditors fail to accept his CVA proposal.

Unless the Creditors have voted in favour of resolution 17.1.4, the Administrators are not authorised to execute this ‘irrevocable’ obligation.

The whole matter of course can be easily clarified if only a witting journalist would ask the Administrators for confirmation that the Creditors approved the relevant resolution that thereby gives them the necessary authority to close the deal with Green.

Over to Scotland’s Media on that one.

One does though wonder what other matters the Administrators are required to deliver against without which the irrevocable agreement with Mr Green is somewhat ..eh, revocable.


----------------------------------------------------------

linky ... http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9075&cpage=13#comment-1426008

[erskine-hibby]

As Vyvian says " I'm completely bl00dy sick of this"
:greengrin

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

rangers appeal rejected: not what i expected.

i thought the hierarchy would crumble....

[Brando7]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#Rangers appeal rejected by #SFA

[CallumLaidlaw]

rangers appeal rejected: not what i expected.

i thought the hierarchy would crumble....

GET IN :top marks

[CallumLaidlaw]

Ewen Murray -

In summary, SFA say punishment handed to Rangers was proportionate to crime and note contracts of existing players can still be extended

[matty_f]

Having seen the findings of the report, any other decision would have been farcical.

[Leithenhibby]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#Rangers appeal rejected by #SFA


It's a start!. :aok:

[Gus Fring]

Brilliant stuff

[Brando7]

1. It was competent for Disciplinary Tribunal to impose the additional
sanction of prohibiting registrations of any new players of 18 years or
older for a period of 12 months.

2. The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct
involved - especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums,
estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT -
was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.

3. The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct also in holding that the
maximum fine available for this breach was £100,000, and on its own was
inadequate as a punishment for this misconduct. It was therefore correct
to select an additional sanction.

4. The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the
game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA,
which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes
that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to
imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious
consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal
rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with
that conclusion.

5. Although the Appellate Tribunal has listened carefully to the
representations from Rangers FC about the practical effects of the
additional sanction, it has concluded that this sanction was
proportionate to the breach, dissuasive to others and effective in the
context of serious misconduct, bringing the game into disrepute. In
particular, the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary
Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers’ ability to extend the
contracts of existing professional players, including those whose
contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those
currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that
Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.

Therefore, the Appellate Tribunal affirms the decision of the
Disciplinary Tribunal.

[Bishop Hibee]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#Rangers appeal rejected by #SFA

The worm has turned. Hopefully the SPL clubs can follow this lead.

To the huns :giruy:

[Spike Mandela]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#Rangers appeal rejected by #SFA

Let the blue nose gnashing and wailing begin.:cb

Next question. Would this punishment still apply to a newco?

[Hibby cal]

Sfa have rejected the Huns appeal
To sanctions put on them
Lol lol lol lol lol lol

[Jim44]

The worm has turned. Hopefully the SPL clubs can follow this lead.

To the huns :giruy:

Fireworks around Hampden on Saturday however. I hope Strathclyde police are up to the task and don't allow the **** to ruin the occasion.

[Mon Dieu4]

Let the blue nose gnashing and wailing begin.:cb

Next question. Would this punishment still apply to a newco?

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220487&st=0

fill your boots there are a few crackers in here Haha couple of favourites being the dog from BGT has more sense and lets get lots of glamour friendlies instead of away games, Im sure Barca would love the glamour of playing 17 year olds Haha

[Sean1875]

Good. **** 'em :aok:

[PatHead]

I know it is a celtic thing but............................


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-4s-P8-2Rk&feature=youtube_gdata_player



quite amusing

[stokesmessiah]

Was in "The Bears Den" earlier and there were lots of comments about how the SFA had seen the might of "The People" and would def back down now. OOOOOOOPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS GIRFUY.

[Mikey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18099048

[ScottB]

Let the blue nose gnashing and wailing begin.:cb

Next question. Would this punishment still apply to a newco?

I have to assume it is tagged to the clubs licence, so a newco trying to claim it has the old clubs licence would surely inherit the punishments.

At that point the newco surely cannot try and switch over player contracts, which it couldn't do anyway, and will have to make do with a team totally composed of kids. Relegation fodder for sure.

So with these punishments in place there best option is either a brand new club applying to division 3, or buying another club and renaming it.

[Green Blood]

Its the right decision to uphold the decision but its bad timing with the final due this weekend. Surely it would have made more sense to review the appeal next week! There may be trouble ahead.............
:flag:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Its the right decision to uphold the decision but its bad timing with the final due this weekend. Surely it would have made more sense to review the appeal next week! There may be trouble ahead.............
:flag:

Looking on rangers media, there are 1 or 2 saying let's cause trouble on Saturday, but to be fair they are getting shouted down saying it could cause a riot and would play into everyone's hands

[hfc rd]

Won't suprise me now if those Huns do go ahead with their so-called protest this sat. But a good decision by the sfa.

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18099048

Aw naw. More gnashing of teeth, hair out by the roots and veiled threats of repercussions ............. and that's just Chick Young

[stokesmessiah]

"See if they were going to hit us with a fine for not paying taxes? Fair enough, I can live with that, even though it stinks, as it was solely Whyte's doing.

But a transfer ban has no relation to the crime. A transfer ban should be placed if we had breached contract with a player, or if we had refused to pay a fee to another club.

It's just a ridiculously strange decision, and one we will remember when they come begging us for something in the future."

Apparently the people are not the brightest sparks in the engine.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Fireworks around Hampden on Saturday however. I hope Strathclyde police are up to the task and don't allow the **** to ruin the occasion.


I really can't see more than a handful trying anything, which won't get very far

[Jonnyboy]

Looking on rangers media, there are 1 or 2 saying let's cause trouble on Saturday, but to be fair they are getting shouted down saying it could cause a riot and would play into everyone's hands

Let's hope the moderates win the day and we don't get some tanked up huns trying to spoil our day out.

[Jamesie]

They will still be able to go to the Court of Session and seek a judicial review of the Tribunal's decision. Although maybe the fact a judge of that court was sitting on the appeal panel may make them think their chances of success might not be that great :greengrin And in any event the court wouldn't substitute the decision of the SFA - at most, it would reduce it and ask the SFA to make the decision again. Nothing to stop the SFA coming tot he same conclusion but with any flaw in the decision making process remedied.

[DarrenSQH]

Good news. Glad they stuck to their guns.

[Jamesie]

They will still be able to go to the Court of Session and seek a judicial review of the Tribunal's decision. Although maybe the fact a judge of that court was sitting on the appeal panel may make them think their chances of success might not be that great :greengrin And in any event the court wouldn't substitute the decision of the SFA - at most, it would reduce it and ask the SFA to make the decision again. Nothing to stop the SFA coming tot he same conclusion but with any flaw in the decision making process remedied.

[stokesmessiah]

I really can't see more than a handful trying anything, which won't get very far

:agree:

[Jim44]

I have to assume it is tagged to the clubs licence, so a newco trying to claim it has the old clubs licence would surely inherit the punishments.

At that point the newco surely cannot try and switch over player contracts, which it couldn't do anyway, and will have to make do with a team totally composed of kids. Relegation fodder for sure.

So with these punishments in place there best option is either a brand new club applying to division 3, or buying another club and renaming it.

There seemed to be some sort of solidarity among their players a few days ago but is it conceivable that the likes of Aluko and Naismith will volunteer themselves as martyrs for the cause?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Let's hope the moderates win the day and we don't get some tanked up huns trying to spoil our day out.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220492

[Ozyhibby]

They will still be able to go to the Court of Session and seek a judicial review of the Tribunal's decision. Although maybe the fact a judge of that court was sitting on the appeal panel may make them think their chances of success might not be that great :greengrin And in any event the court wouldn't substitute the decision of the SFA - at most, it would reduce it and ask the SFA to make the decision again. Nothing to stop the SFA coming tot he same conclusion but with any flaw in the decision making process remedied.

There is no way they will go to the courts. FIFA would come down on them like a ton of bricks. That was the mistake that Sion made in Switzerland.

[joebakerforever]

Won't suprise me now if those Huns do go ahead with their so-called protest this sat. But a good decision by the sfa.

Expect Sandy Jardine to appear on the steps of Hampden on Saturday, wearing a crown of thorns and dragging a cross, in protest at the Gers being crucified by the SFA :devil:

[WarringtonHibee]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220487&st=0

fill your boots there are a few crackers in here Haha couple of favourites being the dog from BGT has more sense and lets get lots of glamour friendlies instead of away games, Im sure Barca would love the glamour of playing 17 year olds Haha

Cheat. Get caught. Get punished. Appeal. Appeal rejected. Moan about SFA corruption. *baffled* :confused:

[SteveHFC]

Any Rangers fan that starts trouble on Saturday. Can **** off!

[CallumLaidlaw]

SFA reject rangers appeal against transfer ban. Geoff Shreeves is flying to Milan to break the news to Gattuso ;-)

[CallumLaidlaw]

The key section of the statement that demonstrates just how far the SFA say the COULD have gone...

The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.

[ScottB]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05/16/rangers-in-crisis-seven-ibrox-stars-worth-25m-can-go-for-just-8m-following-pay-cut-deals-86908-23861279/

Pair never rains but it pours :wink:

[ScottB]

The key section of the statement that demonstrates just how far the SFA say the COULD have gone...

The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.

I take this to mean that if they are found guilty of the dual contracts scam they will be booted out, assuming the current Rangers and it's licence exist in any form by then...

[Saorsa]

The key section of the statement that demonstrates just how far the SFA say the COULD have gone...

The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.Should have upped the punishment tae this and kicked the ****ers out on the failure of the appeal because they had the brass neck tae appeal in the first place instead of accepting the appropriate punishment for their actions.

[Mon Dieu4]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05/16/rangers-in-crisis-seven-ibrox-stars-worth-25m-can-go-for-just-8m-following-pay-cut-deals-86908-23861279/

Pair never rains but it pours :wink:

We should get whitty back for £850k and we are still up Haha

[Mon Dieu4]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220492

Can't belive i actually read the below statement, i must be high on cavornia!!!

"Rangers pride themselves on being THE dignified club in Scotland. If we start diluting our club values now what's the point in supporting Rangers. Let's leave acting like the manky mob to the manky mob."

[Mon Dieu4]

And my new favourite quote of all time, you show em tiger

" As for the boycott - Tesco are getting their Clubcard posted back to them tomorrow. I spent over £100 a week easily with them including petrol"

[stokesmessiah]

And my new favourite quote of all time, you show em tiger

" As for the boycott - Tesco are getting their Clubcard posted back to them tomorrow. I spent over £100 a week easily with them including petrol"




LOL seen that one also, down with the Tesco Corp.

[jgl07]

We should get whitty back for £850k and we are still up Haha

He will be off to Aston Villa on a free transfer.

I suspect that Green will cut and run after this outcome.

Unless he fancies a Newco in SFL3?

[hibs0666]

This decision is a get out of jail free card for the new owners - the SFA and not them will be on the receiving end when the team is uncompetitive while they get on with the necessary cost-cutting.

Not that it is a bad decision.

[SteveHFC]

Yer typical Ragers media user just now ha ha

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-39453-0-73852700-1337211138_thumb.jpg (http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=67044)

[SurferRosa]

Can't belive i actually read the below statement, i must be high on cavornia!!!

"Rangers pride themselves on being THE dignified club in Scotland. If we start diluting our club values now what's the point in supporting Rangers. Let's leave acting like the manky mob to the manky mob."

I seen that one .....aint it a beaut...:faf: :faf:






And my new favourite quote of all time, you show em tiger

" As for the boycott - Tesco are getting their Clubcard posted back to them tomorrow. I spent over £100 a week easily with them including petrol"

:faf::faf::faf:

[VickMackie]

Does anyone know what happened to the money from the legends game vs AC Milan. It was rumoured at the time they would keep the proceeds and bump the charity but it all went quiet after the game was played.

From my understanding, if the money went through their accounts it had to be kept by the admin. if so, was the game arranged before or after they went into admin?

[joe breezy]

Huns planning to f the SFA up on the do the bouncy forum - 1 guy dissenting at the bottom here they keep telling him to shut up and stop 'Murray bashing'


Originally Posted by Chesney (http://www.dothebouncy.com/home/showthread.php?p=501606)
If McGregor etc withdrew from the Scotland squad we would just be accused of thinking we were bigger than the entire nation. That will work out for no one in the long run.

I think the best course of action here is that we the fans act!

There's been talk of the boycott at away games next season. Let's get the ball rolling. Get it across the forums that this isn't a one off or a bit of ***** spouted across a computer screen. This is serious!

A COMPLETE BOYCOTT OF ANY SPL OR CUP GAME IN SCOTLAND FOR THE FULL SEASON!

Not one ticket purchased!

We could still travel to the games with no tickets and just have a mega sing song outside so loud that we are still heard and the players are still aware that follow we will!

This would also cause major policing problems as they would no doubt have to get extra coppers in to be outside as well as those inside.

Something like this would go world wide, everyone would hear about it and they would get a right showing up as well as the ********s in the SPL struggling without gate money and extra policing costs.

We need to do it, the club needs to act with the dignity and honour that its done for years before us. ANY PROTEST OR ACTION IN A FOOTBALLING SENSE MUST BE CARRIED OUT BY THE FANS OR AT THE PLAYERS FREE WILL.

We don't want the club to tarnish its reputation further by carrying on like the filth last season. If we've been cheated then the club should stay quiet and work its way to the correct result via its legal advisors.

I say boycott and if players choose to stop playing for Scotland then that's great but the club nor we should pressure them to do so.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:02 ----------

Onerangers ....... I've been quiet.after.having a nosey at that article we were on about as I'm begining to see your point on quite a big scale ....... But **** me mate ....... Put Tue Murray bashing doon for a post or two will yae lol lol

How can I until somebody tells me what the SFA have done, its Whyte and Murrays fault but 15000 people march on Hampden.

Its the evidence against Murray that did us here.

It was a fair trial, so why **** them and not those responsible is all I am saying, perfectly valid for this thread.

The SFA didn`t have a say in this."

[Ray_]

Any Rangers fan that starts trouble on Saturday. Can **** off!

To be fair, there is a large majority on their web site that believe it to be an extremely stupid idea.

[macca70]

Huns planning to f the SFA up on the do the bouncy forum - 1 guy dissenting at the bottom here they keep telling him to shut up and stop 'Murray bashing'



How can I until somebody tells me what the SFA have done, its Whyte and Murrays fault but 15000 people march on Hampden.

Its the evidence against Murray that did us here.

It was a fair trial, so why **** them and not those responsible is all I am saying, perfectly valid for this thread.

The SFA didn`t have a say in this."

Exactly; Whyte, Murray and Rangers have committed Tax Fraud on a massive scale. If this was the average man on the street, he'd be handed a massive Prison sentence.

Talking of boycotting away games, do they realise it might come down to the other SPL clubs that have to vote on whether we keep them in the league.

Sooner this horrible club are wiped out the better.

[Ray_]

I seen that one .....aint it a beaut...:faf: :faf:



:faf::faf::faf:

Yip, very true, they were dignified in Newcastle 1969, Barcelona 72, Manchester 1974, Birmingham 1976, Manchester again in the 00's, yes, very dignified.

[VickMackie]

Huns planning to f the SFA up on the do the bouncy forum - 1 guy dissenting at the bottom here they keep telling him to shut up and stop 'Murray bashing'

HUN QUOTE

How can I until somebody tells me what the SFA have done, its Whyte and Murrays fault but 15000 people march on Hampden.

Its the evidence against Murray that did us here.

It was a fair trial, so why **** them and not those responsible is all I am saying, perfectly valid for this thread.

The SFA didn`t have a say in this."

The thing that is hilarious about this is their fans actually think people across the world give a ****.

They had a protest march with about 7,000 (?) recently and I think I caught a clip of it once on SSN for about 10 seconds. I had a look at their fan board (RM) and they were going daft at how Murdoch and the media were stopping them from getting recognition (over some Championship games IIRC).

Well, its' because no one gives a **** what they've got to say.

We want them out because 1, it will give smaller clubs hope that they can achieve something and 2, it will get rid of the bigots from our stadiums.

I read some stats recently and I think it said that Rangers and/or Celtic have been in the Scottish Cup final 50+ times each. Given there's probably been approx 130 SC Final's they could potentially account for 100+ of those. Some statto might be able to detail how many non OF finals there have been as they have obviously met in the final in the past.

They're even boycotting Greave's sports, which I believe is a family business, and the owner is a Rangers fan because his logo is on the SFA site. They think this will have an influence on the SFA, it won't. All it will do is help kill a family business of a fellow Rangers fan. Morons.

[hibsbollah]

Can't belive i actually read the below statement, i must be high on cavornia!!!

"Rangers pride themselves on being THE dignified club in Scotland. If we start diluting our club values now what's the point in supporting Rangers. Let's leave acting like the manky mob to the manky mob."

:hilarious:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=220492

Credit where its due on the most part for the majority of posts on that thread, sure there was the odd bit of chest thumping, but, I was pleasantly surprised by the majority of responses.

tin hat time!

[Mon Dieu4]

:hilarious:

Brilliant eh?, I've spent too much time reading their words of wisdom over the last couple of days, its my new guilty pleasure

almost makes me want to buy a shell suit, lose a few teeth and have views that would put Nick Griffin to Shame, Im sure Darwin would have loved to find this missing link, some of them are so poetic that its like reading Byron

[Paisley Hibby]

I have to assume it is tagged to the clubs licence, so a newco trying to claim it has the old clubs licence would surely inherit the punishments.

At that point the newco surely cannot try and switch over player contracts, which it couldn't do anyway, and will have to make do with a team totally composed of kids. Relegation fodder for sure.

So with these punishments in place there best option is either a brand new club applying to division 3, or buying another club and renaming it.

I don't see how it can. Equally, I don't see how it could inherit the Oldco's history (ie all the trophy's it has 'won') or it's players. I think a Newco would involve a completely new start.

[green glory]

http://t.co/tRLugCu2

[Allant1981]

when do the players go back on to their full wage?

[alfie]

Rangers supporters will be shocked and bitterly disappointed by this decision and will find it hard to take that the club has been so heavily punished for the actions of club office bearers.

Fixed that for you! :greengrin

Cant believe they thought that this was a valid reason for an appeal! :confused:

[alfie]

when do the players go back on to their full wage?

I believe that it is the start of June.

Would I also be correct in thinking that it was reported that some had clauses added to their contract that if Craigie was still in charge that they could walk? Would this be why Duff & Duffer are in such a hurry to conclude the deal with the Green man?

[ScottB]

I don't see how it can. Equally, I don't see how it could inherit the Oldco's history (ie all the trophy's it has 'won') or it's players. I think a Newco would involve a completely new start.

If it was a newco applying for the third division, I agree, it's a fresh start. However, if it is their preferred idea of a newco buying the current Rangers club licence to stay in the SPL, then for me it should surely come with the punishments that are attached to the club.

[Twa Cairpets]

when do the players go back on to their full wage?

When they sign for Villa / Southampton / Cardiff etc. :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

Early night for me...so missed the good news...:greengrin

I expected this to happen - and glad it has given a bit of respectability back to SFA / game here - but thought it might be next week before we heard....

I do wonder if Green had a 'Walking Away' clause (sorry couldn't resist :aok:) if sanction was still in force.....


So i'm now jumping about Saturday.....and after that 1st JUNE...transfer window open...wages back to full pay at the big house....the rush to get out the front door will be greater than the fire exit at a burning petro chemical plant :agree:

[Cabbage East]

Where is that token hun that used to post on here these days?

[jonty]

Aw naw. More gnashing of teeth, hair out by the roots and veiled threats of repercussions ............. and that's just Chick Young

i think i've found a flaw in your post :greengrin


(doing a google image search for bald chick young, with safe search off, isnt recommended on a work or family pc!)

[Paisley Hibby]

If it was a newco applying for the third division, I agree, it's a fresh start. However, if it is their preferred idea of a newco buying the current Rangers club licence to stay in the SPL, then for me it should surely come with the punishments that are attached to the club.

Whether it's in the SPL or the SFL Div 3, a Newco is a fresh start. That's why I hope the Oldco survives but has to limp on wounded for years to come.

[Gettin' Auld]

Oh dear, they sure are raging on the hun sites. :greengrin

Posted Yesterday, 10:04 PM

They have the cheek to talk about fit n proper rule the ****in sfa are the ones to talk even animal from the muppets could do a better job or the dog that won bgt ffs

Ha Ha Ha!! Gaun yersel Einstein, you get them telt. :thumbsup:

[Just Alf]

http://t.co/tRLugCu2

Excellent! :thumbsup:

The letter to the "Creditors" is also a piece of pure gold!

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/dear-creditor/

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Excellent! :thumbsup:

The letter to the "Creditors" is also a piece of pure gold!

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/dear-creditor/

:greengrin

:thumbsup:

[lapsedhibee]

@alextomo winding up Hun neanderthals by putting Hail Hail at the end of a tweet. :faf:

[number9dream]

When explaining their [very good] reasons for rejecting the appeal, the new panel pointed out that Rangers will be allowed to offer new deals to those players out of contract in in next few weeks - Aluko, McCulloch etc.
They say Rangers have more than 40 players at their disposal just now.
It's disgusting that those interested in buying the club and associated with the club, like Jardine, are even considering spending a penny on players when they owe others more than £100m!
The paltry £8m that Green & his mystery co are prepared to offer creditors can easily be inflated by selling McGregor, Davis, Whittaker, Naismith etc. This should be a compulsion - D&P are meant to be representing the best interests of those owed money.
Rangers could carry on just fine without Murray Park as well - they can run round some cones in Glasgow Green - so get that place sold as well!


They've also been keeping on Media House PR at £20,000 per month while retaining all of Rangers' own in-house media staff. D&P are a joke!

[Hibbyradge]

i think i've found a flaw in your post :greengrin


(doing a google image search for bald chick young, with safe search off, isnt recommended on a work or family pc!)

:thumbsup: :faf:

[ScottB]

Whether it's in the SPL or the SFL Div 3, a Newco is a fresh start. That's why I hope the Oldco survives but has to limp on wounded for years to come.

Well yeah, that's how it should be, but their argument to stay in the SPL is that they are buying the current Rangers club license to compete in the SPL, my theory was that these punishments would / should be attached to the SPL licence they want to transfer to the newco.

That assumes that they would be allowed to do this anyway, or that they will even try. Division 3 is really starting to look like the better option for them.

[Alan62]

For me, there are no options for them. SPL isn't an option, SFL isn't an option. There have never been any options. It's just a long, fascinating charade that can only end in oblivion. The crimes are too severe, the cheating has been systematic over a long period of time. With every passing day, we get another revelation of the hideous truth and every day the apologists trot out the same crap about being 'too big to fail' and the 'SPL needs them'.

I have always believed it's over for Rangers. But it continues to remain fascinating watching it all fall apart.

[down-the-slope]

Day 93 in the Big Hun Hoose......

Its all gone Mammeries up as Big SFA Brother has refused to relent on the punishments handed out for house mates wrong doings....lots of moaning and griping by house mates that its not fair - failing to remember they went in as volunteers, and could have walked away at any point - and pleading for the viewers to vote to save them.......:greengrin

[ScottB]

I really think there is a very high chance there will be no Rangers at all next season.

They are going to spend till some point in July trying to get a CVA which has no hope of going through, by this stage I imagine the vast majority of the playing side will have gone. Now conceivably the CVA process could drag on and on, leaving the current club to start next season 15 points down with a team of kids and whoever decides to stay on.

More likely is that in July they try and pull a newco. This will likely be far more difficult that they imagine, creditors could kick up a fuss, players will try and walk if they want, the SPL would have to vote them in, Livingston and other clubs (Dundee / Dunfermline / other clubs missing out on a possible promotion) will go to court, ourselves and Celtic at least will hurl our toys out the collective pram... They could easily find themselves rejected from the SPL and not have the time to put together a newco for the start of the SFL season, or the SPL season for that matter, if as I suggested their current punishments follow the SPL licence to the newco, they'll only be able to sign kids (forget D&P's transferring of contracts nonsense, that'll never hold water).


At this stage I think that unless they wake up, smell the coffee and go the SFL3 newco route, or buy an existing SFL club and rename / move it, there could well be no Rangers at all next season.

[lapsedhibee]

At this stage I think that unless they wake up, smell the coffee and go the SFL3 newco route, or buy an existing SFL club and rename / move it, there could well be no Rangers at all next season.

:singing: No Huns next season, there will be no Huns next season. No Huns next seeeeeeson, there will be no Huns next season. :singing:

I can't imagine how The Peepil's sense of victimhood will flourish if Greig gets arrested for fraud:

TOMOBLOG:

At this hour – around 1.30am we have not yet received the full reasoning of the Appelate Tribunal – the appeal body to whom Rangers went to try to reduce their punishment. Yet we already know enough to conclude that Rangers FC are beyond question lucky to exist at all now – certainly the luckiest club in British football right now, simply because they’re still allowed to trade as a football club.
Surprised that they upheld the fine and 1 year ban on buying new players? Hardly. And nor – critically – do I think Charles Green and the Mysterious Twenty of his consortium will be either.
They want to buy a club which nearly – seriously nearly – got expelled from Scottish football completely for a massive £12m tax fraud.
The Appeal Tribunal writes: “The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.”
Bluntly: Green’s damned lucky that Rangers exists at all, that there is a thing called Rangers to buy. To borrow the tribunal’s favourite phrase about men-in-suits-in-Rangers – he had to have known what was going on and how near this club has come to annihilation.

So no, nobody should be surprised that against that threat, Rangers are merely banned from buying new talent for a year. A year in which they’re already banned from Europe as all prospective buyers are aware. Mr Green and The twenty mysterons of his consortium obviously knew all about this and can thus only be relieved there’s still a club to buy.
The second critical fact here is again, the appeal tribunal goes out of its way to hold the club responsible for massive tax fraud – not simply the former owner Craig Whyte. The “club” in law is its chairman and board of directors of the plc. Look carefully at their wording:
“The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct involved – especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums, estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT – was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.”
Now, remember what it was that the tribunal determined? That key named directors at Rangers at that time: John McClelland, John Greig, David King, Ken Olverman and Martin Bain (he of the shredded contracts as revealed by C4 News) had to have known what was going on and did nothing about it.
This was the ‘club’ in law. The directors. These men of Rangers who walked away from Rangers.
Since what was going on was ‘deliberate non payment’ income tax, national insurance and VAT to the value of £13m it is reasonable to ask whether these men, along with Mr Whyte, are now going to face a police investigation for possible fraud. I shall be making inquiries from first thing.
Quite possibly they are innocent men, shut out from what was happening by the ever-increasingly-absent Craig Whyte. Though the tribunal has already stated they must have known something very wrong was happening at Ibrox, yet chose to do little or nothing about it.
Mr Whyte is accused by an eminent legal tribunal of directly masterminding a deliberate non-payment of tax. But the whole point here is that tribunal first and now appelate tribunal explicitly hold the ‘club’ (the directors) responsible for this joint enterprise of non-payment. They do not just blame Craig Whyte.
Craig Whyte’s reaction? No change there since he’s always regarded the entire procedure as a “kangaroo court”, “a complete joke” and “a total charade”. He will not bother to appeal, that being his view.
As for the football side of things? Well, there is a football side of things and since Ibrox has been the scene of a major tax fraud, Rangers are exceedingly lucky that this even exists today.
The appeal tribunal duly notes there are 40 players who can still turn up next season because the buy-ban doesn’t stop the club extending contracts of these 40 already on the books:
“…the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers’ ability to extend the contracts of existing professional players, including those whose contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.”
But footy’s nothing if not short as a career. The window for glory is just a few seasons for most players. Ryan Giggs is an exception proving a brutal rule: life’s short at the top.
Realistically, the better the player, the more likely they are to look elsewhere for glory and european football, when many contracts expire next month at Rangers.
Clearly, from all this, the only reasonable response from Ibrox should be relief and gratitude that they still exist. Scores of clubs, charities, individuals, businesses, councils and colleges across Scotland, the UK and beyond are owed money by this football club – and so are all of us owed at least £13m in deliberate unpaid taxes aka fraud aka serious crime.
The only thing Scotland and the UK taxpayer need hear from Rangers PLC today is the word “sorry”. That’s about as likely as a Craig Whyte pitch-side press conference at Ibrox.

[Jack]

Stolen from elsewhere (X2) :-

"The appeal meeting will come to order.
Please rise for the learned Judge Carloway.
Please be seated."

Judge Carloway: "Will the counsel for the defence state the grounds for the appeal?"

Richard Keene QC: "We are the people."

Judge Carloway: "Appeal dismissed."

:faf: :faf: :faf:

[Kojock]

I really think there is a very high chance there will be no Rangers at all next season.

If thats the case how will the SPL survive, wait a minute I have a quote here from a certain Twatty Smith from The Herald on Friday 16th October 2009 in response to the Bigot Brothers forming a breakaway Atlantic League.



Unlike many senior figures in the Scottish game, Smith has no fears for the wellbeing of the clubs Celtic and Rangers would leave behind in the SPL if they did move on to help form a new league.

In fact, he is adamant that other clubs having an increased chance of winning the national title for the first time since Aberdeen back in 1985 would result in vastly increased gates and general renewed interest.

So can you explain to us mere mortals, Twatty whats changed in the last two and a half years for you to think that the SPL will die without the Huns.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hun admin:


“The club will consider seeking review of this most disappointing decision and it is a matter of regret that the certainty and finality Rangers sought on this matter has not been achieved"

Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up. :rolleyes:

[lapsedhibee]

Hun admin:

Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up. :rolleyes:

How the **** D&D thought there could be any 'finality' in advance of the double-contracts issue and the BTC is a mystery. Shirley no professional outfit can be that confused. They must be working to some seriously corrupt agenda.

[blackpoolhibs]

If thats the case how will the SPL survive, wait a minute I have a quote here from a certain Twatty Smith from The Herald on Friday 16th October 2009 in response to the Bigot Brothers forming a breakaway Atlantic League.




So can you explain to us mere mortals, Twatty whats changed in the last two and a half years for you to think that the SPL will die without the Huns.

:agree:

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/walter_smith_says_rangers_and_celtic_should_quit_s pl/

[ScottB]

Hun admin:



Eh? I think you'll find it has. Twice. Now suck it up. :rolleyes:

Well since the finality that Rangers sought was getting off with it, then he is right, they haven't achieved that yet!

You would think the creditors would object another wasting of cash on legal fees if they try and appeal it yet again...

[Caversham Green]

:singing: No Huns next season, there will be no Huns next season. No Huns next seeeeeeson, there will be no Huns next season. :singing:

I can't imagine how The Peepil's sense of victimhood will flourish if Greig gets arrested for fraud:

TOMOBLOG:

At this hour – around 1.30am we have not yet received the full reasoning of the Appelate Tribunal – the appeal body to whom Rangers went to try to reduce their punishment. Yet we already know enough to conclude that Rangers FC are beyond question lucky to exist at all now – certainly the luckiest club in British football right now, simply because they’re still allowed to trade as a football club.
Surprised that they upheld the fine and 1 year ban on buying new players? Hardly. And nor – critically – do I think Charles Green and the Mysterious Twenty of his consortium will be either.
They want to buy a club which nearly – seriously nearly – got expelled from Scottish football completely for a massive £12m tax fraud.
The Appeal Tribunal writes: “The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.”
Bluntly: Green’s damned lucky that Rangers exists at all, that there is a thing called Rangers to buy. To borrow the tribunal’s favourite phrase about men-in-suits-in-Rangers – he had to have known what was going on and how near this club has come to annihilation.

So no, nobody should be surprised that against that threat, Rangers are merely banned from buying new talent for a year. A year in which they’re already banned from Europe as all prospective buyers are aware. Mr Green and The twenty mysterons of his consortium obviously knew all about this and can thus only be relieved there’s still a club to buy.
The second critical fact here is again, the appeal tribunal goes out of its way to hold the club responsible for massive tax fraud – not simply the former owner Craig Whyte. The “club” in law is its chairman and board of directors of the plc. Look carefully at their wording:
“The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct involved – especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums, estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT – was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.”
Now, remember what it was that the tribunal determined? That key named directors at Rangers at that time: John McClelland, John Greig, David King, Ken Olverman and Martin Bain (he of the shredded contracts as revealed by C4 News) had to have known what was going on and did nothing about it.
This was the ‘club’ in law. The directors. These men of Rangers who walked away from Rangers.
Since what was going on was ‘deliberate non payment’ income tax, national insurance and VAT to the value of £13m it is reasonable to ask whether these men, along with Mr Whyte, are now going to face a police investigation for possible fraud. I shall be making inquiries from first thing.
Quite possibly they are innocent men, shut out from what was happening by the ever-increasingly-absent Craig Whyte. Though the tribunal has already stated they must have known something very wrong was happening at Ibrox, yet chose to do little or nothing about it.
Mr Whyte is accused by an eminent legal tribunal of directly masterminding a deliberate non-payment of tax. But the whole point here is that tribunal first and now appelate tribunal explicitly hold the ‘club’ (the directors) responsible for this joint enterprise of non-payment. They do not just blame Craig Whyte.
Craig Whyte’s reaction? No change there since he’s always regarded the entire procedure as a “kangaroo court”, “a complete joke” and “a total charade”. He will not bother to appeal, that being his view.
As for the football side of things? Well, there is a football side of things and since Ibrox has been the scene of a major tax fraud, Rangers are exceedingly lucky that this even exists today.
The appeal tribunal duly notes there are 40 players who can still turn up next season because the buy-ban doesn’t stop the club extending contracts of these 40 already on the books:
“…the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers’ ability to extend the contracts of existing professional players, including those whose contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.”
But footy’s nothing if not short as a career. The window for glory is just a few seasons for most players. Ryan Giggs is an exception proving a brutal rule: life’s short at the top.
Realistically, the better the player, the more likely they are to look elsewhere for glory and european football, when many contracts expire next month at Rangers.
Clearly, from all this, the only reasonable response from Ibrox should be relief and gratitude that they still exist. Scores of clubs, charities, individuals, businesses, councils and colleges across Scotland, the UK and beyond are owed money by this football club – and so are all of us owed at least £13m in deliberate unpaid taxes aka fraud aka serious crime.
The only thing Scotland and the UK taxpayer need hear from Rangers PLC today is the word “sorry”. That’s about as likely as a Craig Whyte pitch-side press conference at Ibrox.

Following that up a bit, it's an inescapable fact that Whyte was acting on behalf of Rangers FC in his capacity as a director. If Rangers FC (i.e. the administrators) now believe that his actions were detrimental to the club they should be preparing a lawsuit against him for damages. If they can show he was acting alone the lawsuit would almost certainly be successful and would bring in extra cash for the creditors (he does have a castle in the Highlands after all).

It's Whyte they should be chasing, not the SFA - I wonder why they're not doing so.

[blackpoolhibs]

So which is it Ally, do you want to stay or go?

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/mccoist_calls_for_rangers_and_celtic_to_quit_scott ish_premier_league/