Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[green glory]

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 tweeting about Green maybe selling the empty shell on again.

Hunmedia going daft with the same thing. Talking about rumours of an 'American Consortium'.

[JohnStephens91]

St. Johnstone say no, that makes it 6 clubs to 2 (Rangers and Killie)

[Brando7]

St. Johnstone say no, that makes it 6 clubs to 2 (Rangers and Killie)


http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=2060

[Rossco1875]

well done the saints:thumbsup:

[ian cruise]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2370184/20111128_raw_exclusive_jl_c_large.jpg

People Power indeed.

[LancsHibs]

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=2060

Well done Saints!

[Gatecrasher]

Well done to the SPL clubs involved to ensure at least some justice will be done :agree:

[1875godsgift]

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 tweeting about Green maybe selling the empty shell on again.

Hunmedia going daft with the same thing. Talking about rumours of an 'American Consortium'.

I don't see how any individual or consortium can even contemplate buying them when they don't know exactly what they're buying, who'll be left to play for the team, what league they'll be playing in or even if they'll be allowed to play at all?!

They don't even have a bank account ffs.

It's like paying a pound for a lucky dip at the shows knowing damn well you'll probably end up with a penny chew!

[Offside Trap]

So, if I've got this right, the "no to newco" decision renders any future footballing punishment related to the EBTs/dual contracts redundant...i.e. the SPL share is not being transferred to SevCo...therefore SevCo can't be punished by SPL for crimes attached to a football share they do not hold. So if they join SFL they are free from EBT investigation?

However, the SPL's Independent Commission should still sit to determine culpability and determine historic punishment, i.e. stripping of titles/honours they cheated their way to whilst an SPL club?

Talking of things that should be stripped of titles, where the hell is Doncaster at the moment? Hiding under his Rangers duvet? He has got to be emptied at the end of all of this....

[KdyHby]

Partick Thistle, Glasgow's second biggest club :agree::thumbsup:

[Jack]

We must now as individuals and as Clubs put pressure on the SFA not to bend their own rules and allow a club with no history or accounts to become members. Particularly in cases such as this where bona fide football club(s) and existing member(s) would suffer.

[blackpoolhibs]

We must now as individuals and as Clubs put pressure on the SFA not to bend their own rules and allow a club with no history or accounts to become members. Particularly in cases such as this where bona fide football club(s) and existing member(s) would suffer.

:agree: :top marks

[cabbageandribs1875]

pompey have apparently been granted a CVA, 2p in the pound :rolleyes:

[green glory]

pompey have apparently been granted a CVA, 2p in the pound :rolleyes:

Too late for the Huns though.

[Lungo--Drom]

Nice one! :aok:


Partick Thistle, Glasgow's second biggest club :agree::thumbsup:

[snooky]

sorry if already posted earlier

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18582965

A criminal investigation is to be launched into Craig Whyte's takeover of Rangers Football Club in May last year.

The Crown Office asked Strathclyde Police to probe the purchase and the club's subsequent financial management.
The investigation into alleged criminality follows a preliminary examination of information passed to police by administrators

:rolleyes: :crazy:

[snooky]

That would be perfect - they then would have no where to go / play!

Who decides if it's a 11 team league or if Dundee get promoted ? (I still think it should be Dunfermline - even if JJ is there manager!)

Going to be interesting to see who else applies for an SFL place from lower leagues.

Surely the team without a fixture could play a friendly against Newco Disunited?
Gives the Huns a game to watch and would be a good way for the SPL team to try out new players.

:tin hat::tin hat::tin hat::tin hat::tin hat:

[CropleyWasGod]

So, if I've got this right, the "no to newco" decision renders any future footballing punishment related to the EBTs/dual contracts redundant...i.e. the SPL share is not being transferred to SevCo...therefore SevCo can't be punished by SPL for crimes attached to a football share they do not hold. So if they join SFL they are free from EBT investigation?

However, the SPL's Independent Commission should still sit to determine culpability and determine historic punishment, i.e. stripping of titles/honours they cheated their way to whilst an SPL club?

Talking of things that should be stripped of titles, where the hell is Doncaster at the moment? Hiding under his Rangers duvet? He has got to be emptied at the end of all of this....

To be fair, there's not a lot he can do at the moment. No vote has been taken, therefore no action can be taken.

[green glory]

Surely the team without a fixture could play a friendly against Newco Disunited?
Gives the Huns a game to watch and would be a good way for the SPL team to try out new players.

:tin hat::tin hat::tin hat::tin hat::tin hat:

Only one problem. Newco aren't a football club, just a property portfolio.

[CropleyWasGod]

Only one problem. Newco aren't a football club, just a property portfolio.

If they are even that.... he says, banging the same old boring drum again. :greengrin

[gringojoe]

Sir David and Craigy boy better start running.:greengrin

My money would be on Craigy running faster than Sir David, still wouldn't put it past him to tighten up Sir Davids nuts just to make sure he has duped him before you know. :wink:

[KdyHby]

On a serious note, here's hoping that there'll be a significant reduction in domestic abuse

[Dashing Bob S]

My money would be on Craigy running faster than Sir David, still wouldn't put it past him to tighten up Sir Davids nuts just to make sure he has duped him before you know. :wink:

:eek:

[Minder]

If they are even that.... he says, banging the same old boring drum again. :greengrin


Shell Company with a concept of attracting shell suits. :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Shameful behaviour from the Kilmarnock board. I hope that all away fans will observe a boycott of Rugby Park.

[carnoustiehibee]

Here my theory

Rangers newco as it exists won't get in the spl, green sells it, the next owners take a year to finalise the club, by that time the SFA put in plans for an SPL2 and at the beginning of next season they walk into that.

[s.a.m]

...and we've passed the million views mark!

:thumbsup:

[Matty_Jack04]

@JimDelahunt: Defo no Gers SPL next season. Will they be in position to even apply for SFL? Increasingly likely year out minimum. Loads more to come out.

[Minder]

:eek:

Surely the knighthood is on a shoogly peg, Her Maj cannae be pleased that her finest eleven are no more.

Maybe thats why she is speaking to Martin Mcguiness this week, he might know a way to punish Murray.:devil:

[GreenCastle]

Here my theory

Rangers newco as it exists won't get in the spl, green sells it, the next owners take a year to finalise the club, by that time the SFA put in plans for an SPL2 and at the beginning of next season they walk into that.

Could see that happening :agree:

Don't want this saga going on throughout the whole season but think it will with all the legal proceedings.

If they are out of football for a year and manage to get into an SPL 2 this time next year it's still a farce :agree:

[theonlywayisup]

@JimDelahunt: Defo no Gers SPL next season. Will they be in position to even apply for SFL? Increasingly likely year out minimum. Loads more to come out.

Fantastic!!!! This really is great entertainment.

[The_Todd]

pompey have apparently been granted a CVA, 2p in the pound :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure HMRC are only a minority creditor in that case, I may be wrong though?

[SurferRosa]

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 tweeting about Green maybe selling the empty shell on again.

Hunmedia going daft with the same thing. Talking about rumours of an 'American Consortium'.

In what part of cloud cuckoo land do they dream up this pash.....:confused:

[Minder]

In what part of cloud cuckoo land do they dream up this pash.....:confused:

New consortium story not a rumour, Consortium revealed here http://gspawn.com/.

Chumlee will be finance director.

:wink:

[VickMackie]

I'm pretty sure HMRC are only a minority creditor in that case, I may be wrong though?

It would be brilliant if they were the major creditor!

[HH81]

Chumlee in charge of finances.

Chumlee is class :agree:

[Jim44]

Shameful behaviour from the Kilmarnock board. I hope that all away fans will observe a boycott of Rugby Park.

I can't find anything recent about Killie. What is this referring to?

[joe breezy]

Last I saw Killie were going to consult with fans although think the board already dug their own grave with their statements

[cad]

In what part of cloud cuckoo land do they dream up this pash.....:confused:



It was Brian Laudrup the last time I looked ,they were getting a bit stroppy with each other about what shirts they would be wearing next season
got pretty nasty their admins just as bad after the first page it gets very heated , vicious in fact arguing with each other maybe its all getting to much for them poor lambs

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223860


Theres a thread titled wait for it "Should We Be Getting Sympathy " :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Jim44]

It was Brian Laudrup the last time I looked ,they were getting a bit stroppy with each other about what shirts they would be wearing next season
got pretty nasty their admins just as bad after the first page it gets very heated , vicious in fact arguing with each other maybe its all getting to much for them poor lambs

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223860


Theres a thread titled wait for it "Should We Be Getting Sympathy " :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

One of the funniest threads but if truth be told it was pathetic, was one about a pre-season tour of Germany. They were discussing fine details about hotels and flights as if life was going on as if nothing was happening to their glorious club. I wonder if the tour actually exists and more importantly will they have a team to take on it.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

That thread is comedy gold... Gonna no post " what will the name on the shirt be " " what will the badge be " gonna no !

[Brando7]

I thought Green was due to meet with officials of the players’ union today??? He's probably in shock n dreading making a statement

[ScottB]

That thread is comedy gold... Gonna no post " what will the name on the shirt be " " what will the badge be " gonna no !

I would suggest something inspired by a Simpsons episode where Krusty gets busted by the IRS for tax fraud and they rebrand all his stuff...

8383

So a variant of that but Ibrox and the Taxman face :wink:

[grunt]

I thought Green was due to meet with officials of the players’ union today??? He's probably in shock n dreading making a statement

http://pfascotland.co.uk/2012/news/pfa-scotland-meets-with-charles-green/


PFA Scotland and its legal advisors Bridge Litigation today had a constructive meeting with Charles Green, CEO of the Rangers newco.

The burning issue of the TUPE transfer of our members to the newco was discussed but only briefly. Chief Executive Fraser Wishart said;
“It was important to meet with Mr Green as we have not spoken previously. We both acknowledged that whilst we disagree upon the fundamental issues surrounding our members rights to object to the transfer to the newco, we can at the same time respect the other parties position and allow the process to flow without acrimony.”

“Mr Green discussed his plans for the newco next season although of course he is not in control of many of the circumstances with regard to the football authorities and the other clubs decisions. We welcome the opportunity where we could both speak frankly and look forward to further positive dialogue in the coming months and weeks.”

“I would like to make it clear that the players who have objected so far have had to make a decision which has been a footballing one. In recent days SPL clubs have made their postion clear and it is now increasingly unlikely that the newco will be playing in the SPL next season.”
“This, added to the three year ban from European competitions, the uncertainty over which league they will play in and what further sanctions the football authorities may impose has left the players who have ambitions to play for their international team and in Europe with an extremely difficult decision.”

PFA Scotland will meet with the players who agree to the transfer on their return to pre season training as our role is to ensure that all their contractual obligations are transferred with them.

We will also continue to advise any member who wishes to take up the option of objecting as to his rights under employment law, a position which we have made clear previously and has not changed

[grunt]

Green interviewed by STV

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107908-rangers-chief-executive-gives-reaction-to-no-to-newco-decision/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


... what we also have to look at is Scottish Football is driven by two factors: Rangers and Celtic. And the income drivers, the generation, the media, the marketing is all about two clubs, and really I think what we have to do is start looking now at what's best for Scottish Football and we all have to now unite behind the club and make sure that the decisions we take going forward achieve that result."

[mca]

I Get the Feeling That Green is resigned to not playing SPL fitba.. But i Also reckon he Will walk away if They Dont Get Division 1... :agree:

[greenginger]

Was one of Green's first statements to the True Blues that he hoped to have the Club playing in the English Championship within 5 years ?

The man is a complete *rsehole and ideally suited to his current position. :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Green interviewed by STV

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107908-rangers-chief-executive-gives-reaction-to-no-to-newco-decision/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Spiv.

And not a very bright spiv.

Like the word spiv.

And expunged.

The spiv was expunged.

[Brando7]

Green interviewed by STV

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107908-rangers-chief-executive-gives-reaction-to-no-to-newco-decision/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

he doesn't give a flying **** about scottish football, it all about the pennies n pounds

[SonOfTortolano]

Why is it that only the east coast clubs have said no so far?

:wink:

[Jim44]

""Well, of course, I accept that that's a view but what we also have to look at is Scottish Football is driven by two factors: Rangers and Celtic. And the income drivers, the generation, the media, the marketing is all about two clubs, and really I think what we have to do is start looking now at what's best for Scottish Football and we all have to now unite behind the club and make sure that the decisions we take going forward achieve that result."

Well, Charlie, it looks like Scottish football is going to be driven by only one team for the next few years. Just for the record however it's worth noting that during your team's absence ( the longer the better) eleven SPL clubs will be taking steps to dnsure that your duopoly is confined to the history books and that the league is a healthier place for all concerned.

[Phil D. Rolls]

""Well, of course, I accept that that's a view but what we also have to look at is Scottish Football is driven by two factors: Rangers and Celtic. And the income drivers, the generation, the media, the marketing is all about two clubs, and really I think what we have to do is start looking now at what's best for Scottish Football and we all have to now unite behind the club and make sure that the decisions we take going forward achieve that result."

Well, Charlie, it looks like Scottish football is going to be driven by only one team for the next few years. Just for the record however it's worth noting that during your team's absence ( the longer the better) eleven SPL clubs will be taking steps to dnsure that your duopoly is confined to the history books and that the league is a healthier place for all concerned.

:pray: I would really love it if this was a new beginning for Scottish Football.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

... It looks like Scottish football is going to be however it's worth noting that during your team's absence ( the longer the better) eleven SPL clubs will be taking steps to dnsure that your duopoly is confined to the history books and that the league is a healthier place for all concerned.

Amen !!! Bloody hell I wish we had journalists who could write as well as that .... 10/10

[Spike Mandela]

Last I saw Killie were going to consult with fans although think the board already dug their own grave with their statements

Killie Statement.............................

Shareholders and Season Ticket Holders - Consultation
Dear Shareholder/Season Ticket Holder,

"Rangers Newco" in the SPL

Much has been said and written in recent weeks about “Rangers Newco” and the upcoming SPL General Meeting on 4th July when all twelve clubs (including “Rangers in Administration”) will vote on whether or not the SPL share (or membership) currently held by “Rangers in Administration” may be transferred to “Rangers Newco”. The vote will be decided by an 8 - 4 majority.

Clubs are consulting their stakeholders to varying degrees. I considered holding a public meeting but the logistics of planning and conducting such a meeting highlighted a number of practical difficulties and the alternative of canvassing the views of the club’s shareholders and season ticket holders (2011-12 and 2012-13) by email and letter recommended itself as a means of establishing the carefully considered views of the club’s most important stakeholders based upon an analysis of the relevant facts in a non-contentious environment - your own home.

Contrary to some media reports, I have not committed our club to supporting “Rangers Newco”. For a more balanced report of my views as at 22nd May, see the Daily Telegraph article by Roddy Forsyth - copy annexed. This interview preceded the Panorama expose regarding the use of EBT’s by “Rangers Oldco” as a means of supplementing players’ wages in an illegal manner in breach of SFA and SPL rules. There then followed an appeal to the Court of Session by “Rangers in Administration” contrary to the tenet that clubs should not invoke civil courts to deal with football sanctions, a principle strongly advocated by FIFA and UEFA. It must be said that “Rangers Oldco” and “Rangers in Administration” have not done Rangers Football Club any favours in terms of gaining support for “Rangers Newco” in its ambition to be accepted as a member of the SPL on 4th July.

Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation, finds itself in serious danger of suffering severe financial penalties if our opening fixture and subsequent home fixture on 6th April 2013 of the 2012-13 SPL season are against a “Club 12” which does not enjoy a travelling support of circa six to eight thousand (@ £26 per person), because that is what we have budgeted for, in line with every other SPL season since the league’s inception in 1998. This means a potential drop in revenue of around £300,000 net.

If the vote on 4th July goes against “Rangers Newco”, the SPL will have breached its contract with “Sky” and other commercial partners who require “Old Firm” derbies as part of the SPL’s contractual obligations. Termination or re-negotiation of these contracts may follow with unquantifiable (but certainly negative) financial consequences for all twelve member clubs.

This would have a profound impact on the operating conditions of our club. We no longer have access to “soft loans” from a wealthy owner and seven years of debt reduction is unlikely to be reversed by Lloyds Banking Group offering increased borrowing facilities. The excellent support which we enjoy from sponsors and supporters would hopefully continue unabated but even the slickest of sales and marketing campaigns would struggle to fill the financial void in the short term. Spending cuts in the club’s administration and hotel have already been implemented. There is no room for further savings in those areas without causing major operational issues. This leaves the playing squad to bear the brunt of a serious funding shortfall. Expenditure on the club’s Youth Development programme and community projects would also come under severe pressure.

The statement issued by Motherwell FC on 18th June (excerpts annexed) captured the dilemma facing the majority of SPL clubs.

I firmly believe that the success and prosperity of our club will always come first with our supporters. I also believe that our supporters appreciate the progress we've made over the last two seasons and are keen to be a part of what we hope will be an exciting period ahead. Thus the healthy season ticket sales to date - ahead of last year's figures.

Following the emotional rollercoaster of our season ending match with Falkirk in 2010, we have recorded steady improvements, both on and off the pitch. This, of course, culminated in an unforgettable day at Hampden in March when the League Cup was won for the first time in our history, completing our "treble" of Scottish football's major honours.

Since last season ended, Manuel Pascali, James Fowler, Garry Hay and, most importantly, our cup winning manager Kenny Shiels have all signed extended contracts. Kenny is very much a “man with a plan” and has already given a number of young players first team experience as he builds for the future.

We have a sound platform to build from. It is our intention to add to the core of last season's squad by bringing in quality players in key positions and also to give further opportunities to the talented young players who are pushing for inclusion in the first team.

It's frustrating that due to circumstances outwith our control we are being hampered in our preparations for next season.This is a particularly difficult and anxious time as we look to manage our finances to create a playing budget that will allow us to match our ambitions for the club next season with our estimated income in the club's financial year to 31st May, 2013.

Normally, this is down to our projections on season ticket sales, gate receipts, commercial income from sponsors and our share of central revenues from the SPL - all of which is generally predictable. However, the uncertainty over Rangers' participation in the SPL and the potential consequences of that for the level of gate receipts and TV revenues received via the SPL has meant that we have not been able to press ahead with our plans.

The next few weeks are critical in terms of preparing the playing squad for the new season. The players reported back for pre-season training today. One or two of last season's first team regulars remain out of contract and we would like to be able to make offers to them and the signing targets highlighted by Kenny as soon as possible to give us the best preparation for next season.

For that reason, the news on season ticket sales offers encouragement and, hopefully, we'll be able to continue to report positive news as we proceed through the renewal process. Each year, our clear objective is is to increase sales and we’re on target to do that for the second year in succession. It's a sobering thought, however, that we'd need around 1,000 additional adult season ticket sales to make up for the loss of two home fixtures against Rangers next season - but if that becomes a necessity, then that's what we'll aim to do.

So, we're looking for the wider issues to be resolved quickly, which will allow us and the rest of the SPL clubs to finalise budgets and pre-season plans and get back to playing football. Now, perhaps more than ever before, we need our true supporters to back the club - regardless of who "Club 12" turns out to be.

Very recently, "Rangers Newco" has offered to accept a range of sporting and financial penalties for the wrongdoing of "Rangers Oldco", as well as undertaking to support a change to the SPL's iniquitous 90% (11-1) voting structure to a more democratic 75% (9-3), if allowed entry to the SPL. This is not insignificant and is recognised in the third option on the consultation response slip.

I want to go to the SPL General Meeting on 4th July with a clear impression of the opinions of our most important stakeholders - the club's shareholders and season ticket holders - so please reply by email to [email protected] or use the response slip and reply paid envelope provided if you have received this letter by post. Responses must be received by 12 noon on Monday 2nd July.




There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.


Yours sincerely,



Michael Johnston,Chairman,
Kilmarnock FC
League Cup Winners 2012

[DH1875]

Why is it that only the east coast clubs have said no so far?

:wink:


Celtic are bricking it. They figured they'd get away with voting NO as we'd all vote the newco back in. Now their in a position where they need to vote yes to keep things the way they are. Imagine how their own fans will take a yes vote. Their board are having to tread carefully. Killie are a given to vote yes as they are likely to go under without the newco and St.Mirren are in the middle of a take over so they can't say either or.

[Hovehibby]

This just gets funnier.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223968

:faf::faf:

[PatHead]

Never read such an unbalanced pleading in my life. As long as he is in charge of them top of the black list for me.



Killie Statement.............................

Shareholders and Season Ticket Holders - Consultation
Dear Shareholder/Season Ticket Holder,

"Rangers Newco" in the SPL

Much has been said and written in recent weeks about “Rangers Newco” and the upcoming SPL General Meeting on 4th July when all twelve clubs (including “Rangers in Administration”) will vote on whether or not the SPL share (or membership) currently held by “Rangers in Administration” may be transferred to “Rangers Newco”. The vote will be decided by an 8 - 4 majority.

Clubs are consulting their stakeholders to varying degrees. I considered holding a public meeting but the logistics of planning and conducting such a meeting highlighted a number of practical difficulties and the alternative of canvassing the views of the club’s shareholders and season ticket holders (2011-12 and 2012-13) by email and letter recommended itself as a means of establishing the carefully considered views of the club’s most important stakeholders based upon an analysis of the relevant facts in a non-contentious environment - your own home.

Contrary to some media reports, I have not committed our club to supporting “Rangers Newco”. For a more balanced report of my views as at 22nd May, see the Daily Telegraph article by Roddy Forsyth - copy annexed. This interview preceded the Panorama expose regarding the use of EBT’s by “Rangers Oldco” as a means of supplementing players’ wages in an illegal manner in breach of SFA and SPL rules. There then followed an appeal to the Court of Session by “Rangers in Administration” contrary to the tenet that clubs should not invoke civil courts to deal with football sanctions, a principle strongly advocated by FIFA and UEFA. It must be said that “Rangers Oldco” and “Rangers in Administration” have not done Rangers Football Club any favours in terms of gaining support for “Rangers Newco” in its ambition to be accepted as a member of the SPL on 4th July.

Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation, finds itself in serious danger of suffering severe financial penalties if our opening fixture and subsequent home fixture on 6th April 2013 of the 2012-13 SPL season are against a “Club 12” which does not enjoy a travelling support of circa six to eight thousand (@ £26 per person), because that is what we have budgeted for, in line with every other SPL season since the league’s inception in 1998. This means a potential drop in revenue of around £300,000 net.

If the vote on 4th July goes against “Rangers Newco”, the SPL will have breached its contract with “Sky” and other commercial partners who require “Old Firm” derbies as part of the SPL’s contractual obligations. Termination or re-negotiation of these contracts may follow with unquantifiable (but certainly negative) financial consequences for all twelve member clubs.

This would have a profound impact on the operating conditions of our club. We no longer have access to “soft loans” from a wealthy owner and seven years of debt reduction is unlikely to be reversed by Lloyds Banking Group offering increased borrowing facilities. The excellent support which we enjoy from sponsors and supporters would hopefully continue unabated but even the slickest of sales and marketing campaigns would struggle to fill the financial void in the short term. Spending cuts in the club’s administration and hotel have already been implemented. There is no room for further savings in those areas without causing major operational issues. This leaves the playing squad to bear the brunt of a serious funding shortfall. Expenditure on the club’s Youth Development programme and community projects would also come under severe pressure.

The statement issued by Motherwell FC on 18th June (excerpts annexed) captured the dilemma facing the majority of SPL clubs.

I firmly believe that the success and prosperity of our club will always come first with our supporters. I also believe that our supporters appreciate the progress we've made over the last two seasons and are keen to be a part of what we hope will be an exciting period ahead. Thus the healthy season ticket sales to date - ahead of last year's figures.

Following the emotional rollercoaster of our season ending match with Falkirk in 2010, we have recorded steady improvements, both on and off the pitch. This, of course, culminated in an unforgettable day at Hampden in March when the League Cup was won for the first time in our history, completing our "treble" of Scottish football's major honours.

Since last season ended, Manuel Pascali, James Fowler, Garry Hay and, most importantly, our cup winning manager Kenny Shiels have all signed extended contracts. Kenny is very much a “man with a plan” and has already given a number of young players first team experience as he builds for the future.

We have a sound platform to build from. It is our intention to add to the core of last season's squad by bringing in quality players in key positions and also to give further opportunities to the talented young players who are pushing for inclusion in the first team.

It's frustrating that due to circumstances outwith our control we are being hampered in our preparations for next season.This is a particularly difficult and anxious time as we look to manage our finances to create a playing budget that will allow us to match our ambitions for the club next season with our estimated income in the club's financial year to 31st May, 2013.

Normally, this is down to our projections on season ticket sales, gate receipts, commercial income from sponsors and our share of central revenues from the SPL - all of which is generally predictable. However, the uncertainty over Rangers' participation in the SPL and the potential consequences of that for the level of gate receipts and TV revenues received via the SPL has meant that we have not been able to press ahead with our plans.

The next few weeks are critical in terms of preparing the playing squad for the new season. The players reported back for pre-season training today. One or two of last season's first team regulars remain out of contract and we would like to be able to make offers to them and the signing targets highlighted by Kenny as soon as possible to give us the best preparation for next season.

For that reason, the news on season ticket sales offers encouragement and, hopefully, we'll be able to continue to report positive news as we proceed through the renewal process. Each year, our clear objective is is to increase sales and we’re on target to do that for the second year in succession. It's a sobering thought, however, that we'd need around 1,000 additional adult season ticket sales to make up for the loss of two home fixtures against Rangers next season - but if that becomes a necessity, then that's what we'll aim to do.

So, we're looking for the wider issues to be resolved quickly, which will allow us and the rest of the SPL clubs to finalise budgets and pre-season plans and get back to playing football. Now, perhaps more than ever before, we need our true supporters to back the club - regardless of who "Club 12" turns out to be.

Very recently, "Rangers Newco" has offered to accept a range of sporting and financial penalties for the wrongdoing of "Rangers Oldco", as well as undertaking to support a change to the SPL's iniquitous 90% (11-1) voting structure to a more democratic 75% (9-3), if allowed entry to the SPL. This is not insignificant and is recognised in the third option on the consultation response slip.

I want to go to the SPL General Meeting on 4th July with a clear impression of the opinions of our most important stakeholders - the club's shareholders and season ticket holders - so please reply by email to [email protected] or use the response slip and reply paid envelope provided if you have received this letter by post. Responses must be received by 12 noon on Monday 2nd July.




There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.


Yours sincerely,



Michael Johnston,Chairman,
Kilmarnock FC
League Cup Winners 2012

[joe breezy]

Kilmarnock F.C. ‏@killiefanpage
Johnston to vote against newco is the latest Apparently 1500 online consultations have been emailed saying no to newco since release at 9am
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite

[joe breezy]

Never read such an unbalanced pleading in my life. As long as he is in charge of them top of the black list for me.

He's voting no according to Killie fans

[down-the-slope]

I have said already that Killie have a higher debt to turnover ratio of any SPL club...they are probably pretty likely to go under unless they can increase income from ST's dramaticaly or restructure debt (banks not really playing that game at the moment)..

They have made themselves a target now where some will boycott no matter how they vote as a NO will be seen as political rather than genuine

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

He's voting no according to Killie fans

Any link to their forum site ?? Tried killie pies are good but couldn't find it ! Sorry for being lazy !!

[PatHead]

I have said already that Killie have a higher debt to turnover ratio of any SPL club...they are probably pretty likely to go under unless they can increase income from ST's dramaticaly or restructure debt (banks not really playing that game at the moment)..

They have made themselves a target now where some will boycott no matter how they vote as a NO will be seen as political rather than genuine

...................and yet he talks about adding signings when they have no money.

[joe breezy]

http://i.imgur.com/b0Tov.png

[grunt]

Killie Statement.............................

Interesting to note that the word "integrity" is not mentioned at all in this statement. And is it not more than a little pathetic to include the phrase, "Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation..."? Does he mean to imply that other SPL clubs ARE to blame? Thank heavens he's not our Chairman.

[joe breezy]

Chic Young will not be renewing his contract at the BBC next season...

From Barcabhoy on Rangers Tax Case

:lolrangers:

[GordonHFC]

http://i.imgur.com/b0Tov.png

I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?" :thumbsup:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

As the cast of Grange Hill sang back in the 80's "Just say no"!

[Lungo--Drom]

RAOFL RAOFL :D
These guys have major identity issues. The sad bit is they really mean it :O


This just gets funnier.

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223968

:faf::faf:

[robinp]

I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?" :thumbsup:

I prefer the Monty Python style quote, name a time and ill be there, 12, sorry I'm busy then.

[Saorsa]

Kilmarnock F.C. ‏@killiefanpage
Johnston to vote against newco is the latest Apparently 1500 online consultations have been emailed saying no to newco since release at 9am
Expand
Reply Retweet FavoriteToo late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

[joe breezy]

Stating the obvious but Rangers not playing anywhere 2012 / 2013 is becoming the most likely scenario

Jim Delahunt ‏@JimDelahunt
Thanks to those asking about year out. SPL a NO, SFL a maybe but SFA could suspend for year (min) and we don't know if newco even viable.

:greengrin

[ScottB]

Stating the obvious but Rangers not playing anywhere 2012 / 2013 is becoming the most likely scenario

Jim Delahunt ‏@JimDelahunt
Thanks to those asking about year out. SPL a NO, SFL a maybe but SFA could suspend for year (min) and we don't know if newco even viable.

:greengrin

This has been my opinion for awhile now, there simply isn't time for them, never mind adding in the many legal challenges, investigations, criminal investigations, Green having no money, no clubs wanting them in their leagues...


As I said a few pages ago, a year out could be the best thing for them. A chance to let the dust settle, the governing bodies to finish their investigations and punishments handed down to the Oldco, the Police and the Revenue to nail those responsible and a chance for some new owners, or the fans themselves to rebuild their club.

Their return could be tied into a restructure for next season onwards adding them to whatever the lowest league is etc.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Theres too much still to be cleared up/investigated, I cannae see them playing anywhere next season either.

[steakbake]

I like the "mid day tomorrow? Say 12?" :thumbsup:

Aye, some folk have jobs.

[monktonharp]

On a serious note, here's hoping that there'll be a significant reduction in domestic abuseyeah, the wife kicked **** oot o' me the ither night, acused me o' bein' pished and aw ah hud wis 2 shandies.

[steakbake]

Chic Young will not be renewing his contract at the BBC next season...

From Barcabhoy on Rangers Tax Case

:lolrangers:

Well, without Rangers, he's got nothing to offer as a journo. They're all he knows. I mean there is St Mirren allegedly, but they'll not let him sniff the seats there and I doubt they have succulent lamb on their menu.

[MyJo]

Killie Statement.............................

Shareholders and Season Ticket Holders - Consultation
Dear Shareholder/Season Ticket Holder,

"Rangers Newco" in the SPL

Much has been said and written in recent weeks about “Rangers Newco” and the upcoming SPL General Meeting on 4th July when all twelve clubs (including “Rangers in Administration”) will vote on whether or not the SPL share (or membership) currently held by “Rangers in Administration” may be transferred to “Rangers Newco”. The vote will be decided by an 8 - 4 majority.

Clubs are consulting their stakeholders to varying degrees. I considered holding a public meeting but the logistics of planning and conducting such a meeting highlighted a number of practical difficulties and the alternative of canvassing the views of the club’s shareholders and season ticket holders (2011-12 and 2012-13) by email and letter recommended itself as a means of establishing the carefully considered views of the club’s most important stakeholders based upon an analysis of the relevant facts in a non-contentious environment - your own home.

Contrary to some media reports, I have not committed our club to supporting “Rangers Newco”. For a more balanced report of my views as at 22nd May, see the Daily Telegraph article by Roddy Forsyth - copy annexed. This interview preceded the Panorama expose regarding the use of EBT’s by “Rangers Oldco” as a means of supplementing players’ wages in an illegal manner in breach of SFA and SPL rules. There then followed an appeal to the Court of Session by “Rangers in Administration” contrary to the tenet that clubs should not invoke civil courts to deal with football sanctions, a principle strongly advocated by FIFA and UEFA. It must be said that “Rangers Oldco” and “Rangers in Administration” have not done Rangers Football Club any favours in terms of gaining support for “Rangers Newco” in its ambition to be accepted as a member of the SPL on 4th July.

Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation, finds itself in serious danger of suffering severe financial penalties if our opening fixture and subsequent home fixture on 6th April 2013 of the 2012-13 SPL season are against a “Club 12” which does not enjoy a travelling support of circa six to eight thousand (@ £26 per person), because that is what we have budgeted for, in line with every other SPL season since the league’s inception in 1998. This means a potential drop in revenue of around £300,000 net.

If the vote on 4th July goes against “Rangers Newco”, the SPL will have breached its contract with “Sky” and other commercial partners who require “Old Firm” derbies as part of the SPL’s contractual obligations. Termination or re-negotiation of these contracts may follow with unquantifiable (but certainly negative) financial consequences for all twelve member clubs.

This would have a profound impact on the operating conditions of our club. We no longer have access to “soft loans” from a wealthy owner and seven years of debt reduction is unlikely to be reversed by Lloyds Banking Group offering increased borrowing facilities. The excellent support which we enjoy from sponsors and supporters would hopefully continue unabated but even the slickest of sales and marketing campaigns would struggle to fill the financial void in the short term. Spending cuts in the club’s administration and hotel have already been implemented. There is no room for further savings in those areas without causing major operational issues. This leaves the playing squad to bear the brunt of a serious funding shortfall. Expenditure on the club’s Youth Development programme and community projects would also come under severe pressure.

The statement issued by Motherwell FC on 18th June (excerpts annexed) captured the dilemma facing the majority of SPL clubs.

I firmly believe that the success and prosperity of our club will always come first with our supporters. I also believe that our supporters appreciate the progress we've made over the last two seasons and are keen to be a part of what we hope will be an exciting period ahead. Thus the healthy season ticket sales to date - ahead of last year's figures.

Following the emotional rollercoaster of our season ending match with Falkirk in 2010, we have recorded steady improvements, both on and off the pitch. This, of course, culminated in an unforgettable day at Hampden in March when the League Cup was won for the first time in our history, completing our "treble" of Scottish football's major honours.

Since last season ended, Manuel Pascali, James Fowler, Garry Hay and, most importantly, our cup winning manager Kenny Shiels have all signed extended contracts. Kenny is very much a “man with a plan” and has already given a number of young players first team experience as he builds for the future.

We have a sound platform to build from. It is our intention to add to the core of last season's squad by bringing in quality players in key positions and also to give further opportunities to the talented young players who are pushing for inclusion in the first team.

It's frustrating that due to circumstances outwith our control we are being hampered in our preparations for next season.This is a particularly difficult and anxious time as we look to manage our finances to create a playing budget that will allow us to match our ambitions for the club next season with our estimated income in the club's financial year to 31st May, 2013.

Normally, this is down to our projections on season ticket sales, gate receipts, commercial income from sponsors and our share of central revenues from the SPL - all of which is generally predictable. However, the uncertainty over Rangers' participation in the SPL and the potential consequences of that for the level of gate receipts and TV revenues received via the SPL has meant that we have not been able to press ahead with our plans.

The next few weeks are critical in terms of preparing the playing squad for the new season. The players reported back for pre-season training today. One or two of last season's first team regulars remain out of contract and we would like to be able to make offers to them and the signing targets highlighted by Kenny as soon as possible to give us the best preparation for next season.

For that reason, the news on season ticket sales offers encouragement and, hopefully, we'll be able to continue to report positive news as we proceed through the renewal process. Each year, our clear objective is is to increase sales and we’re on target to do that for the second year in succession. It's a sobering thought, however, that we'd need around 1,000 additional adult season ticket sales to make up for the loss of two home fixtures against Rangers next season - but if that becomes a necessity, then that's what we'll aim to do.

So, we're looking for the wider issues to be resolved quickly, which will allow us and the rest of the SPL clubs to finalise budgets and pre-season plans and get back to playing football. Now, perhaps more than ever before, we need our true supporters to back the club - regardless of who "Club 12" turns out to be.

Very recently, "Rangers Newco" has offered to accept a range of sporting and financial penalties for the wrongdoing of "Rangers Oldco", as well as undertaking to support a change to the SPL's iniquitous 90% (11-1) voting structure to a more democratic 75% (9-3), if allowed entry to the SPL. This is not insignificant and is recognised in the third option on the consultation response slip.

I want to go to the SPL General Meeting on 4th July with a clear impression of the opinions of our most important stakeholders - the club's shareholders and season ticket holders - so please reply by email to [email protected] or use the response slip and reply paid envelope provided if you have received this letter by post. Responses must be received by 12 noon on Monday 2nd July.




There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.


Yours sincerely,



Michael Johnston,Chairman,
Kilmarnock FC
League Cup Winners 2012

How bloody pathetic is option 2?!

[Joe's ice cream]

Now admittedly this situation could drag on for some time, it sure has until this point, but the fact that we have reached this point at all with clubs in the SPL publically coming out and stating they don't want a New Co near the SPL should be taken as a massive credit by forums such as this along with some excellent blogs which have appeared since Feb,continualy asking relevant questions and keeping asserted issues in the public domain. The fan polls offering a true representation of what is really being felt should be credited massively- well done those who created, positioned and administrated them.

I hope that after all said an done the pandering media are never allowed to forget that they did not effect this systemic change, some can hold there heads up for actually asking the questions, built the majority have not set the agenda in the slightest but followed the direction driven by the fans of the so called 'diddy' clubs. The likes of Jim Traynor should never be allowed to forget that he has been well and truly found out, he should be reminded consistently on his weekly call programme that he is no more a 'true voice of football' than my mother is.

The likes of Traynor and others for that matter have effected the problems the former club know as Rangers find themselves now in by consistently bigging them and the other side of the old firm up making them and theire supporters actually believe that they were involved in the biggest clubs in the world who were the envy of the world over - there not, they never have been and the 'old firm' is not the biggest derby in football. But print it enough times and they fell for it, believing that they were so big and powerful that nothing but success and glory could come there respective ways.......all it did was make them all from senior management down to supporters forget to ask some searching questions when required.....and when they were what did we hear a few seasons ago? - "we deserve better" - well so does the rest of Scottish football, and guess what its happening ;-)

[Lmc2105]

If what jim spence has tweeted is correct and rangers could get in the SFL they need a swing of 23 clubs to vote for them, so the whole of the 2nd and 3rd division plus a few div 1 teams interesting,

[1875godsgift]

How bloody pathetic is option 2?!

:agree: that voting system, by its wording, pushes people towards option 1



There are three options to which you should respond

1 - YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid the SPL being in breach of its contractual obligations to "Sky" and other commercial partners

1 YES - the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL in order to avoid sporting integrity being more important than financial gain.

2 - NO - the "New" Rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Kilmarnock FC

2 - NO - the "New" rangers FC should NOT be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances, regardless of the consequences for Scottish football.

3 - YES - subject to the "New" Rangers FC accepting a range of sporting and financial penalties (short of exclusion from the SPL) for the wrongdoing of the owners of the "Old" Rangers FC
AND undertaking to support reform of the SPL's voting structure, the "New" Rangers FC should be admitted to the SPL

3 -YES - "New" rangers should have no input into the determination of their penalties, and the SPL voting structure should be reformed without the need for "New" rangers to have any voting rights whatsoever.

Please include 1-YES or 2-NO or 3-YES in your subject heading which will help us to evaluate the responses.

[Twiglet]

If what jim spence has tweeted is correct and rangers could get in the SFL they need a swing of 23 clubs to vote for them, so the whole of the 2nd and 3rd division plus a few div 1 teams interesting,


Could be tough for them, considering a few clubs have made their feelings known about the Rangers situation. Might end up coming down to the options available in who else applies for the space, but who else would apply? A Highland league team? Spartans? Whoever it is would need to have some financial backing.

[Lmc2105]

Of course the fairest way to do it would be an open application process to give these teams the chance to play in the 3rd division and most of them are good enough! What a think might maybe get rangers in is the propect of the "new pyramid system" which will give these teams a chance in the lower leagues and very rightly so!! No way shape or form to rangers even deserve to walk back in!

[snooky]

:agree: that voting system, by its wording, pushes people towards option 1

Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls. :wink:

[Jim44]

Too late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

Glad to hear somebody else voicing this opinion. I've mentioned it a few times but felt that I was being accused of being unnecessarily vindictive since a 'no' vote was assured and it didn't matter what the fence-sitters were going to do. I hope Johnston and Killie get it tight next season.

[1875godsgift]

Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls. :wink:

Never! They don't do that, do they? :confused:

That's about as believable as the president of the SFA being a dyed-in-the-wool hun with a history of tax evasion.

Oh, wait a minute.........

[joe breezy]

Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls. :wink:

yep and still everyone has replied No to the Huns...

What a diddy, feel sorry for the fans, a real chance they'll be boycotted next season

[joe breezy]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rangers-newco-1964-bid-to-eject-minnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352\\By CRAIG P STEWART
Published on Tuesday 26 June 2012 00:00



IRONY will be at the forefront of the minds of certain members of the Scottish Football League with long memories when they vote on the future of ‘The Rangers’.


Five clubs which will be involved in determining which division the Ibrox club will play in next season – Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer – may think back 48 years when the boot was on the other foot.

In 1964, this gang of five survived an attempt to oust them from senior football in a move led by Rangers.

The Glasgow giants wanted to reduce the number of clubs in the then top two divisions from 37 to 32 and proposed that the minnows should drop out.

Rangers proposed that the five clubs with the smallest gate receipts should be kicked out and were at the vanguard of moves to make it happen, including sending out correspondence to the other member clubs and deliberately excluding the targeted clubs.

Amid much legal wrangling, the smaller clubs – supported by Celtic and their chairman Robert Kelly – survived the move. SFL Operations Director David Thomson recalled: “The book that was launched to mark the centenary of the SFL in 1990 records what happened. The five clubs were in danger of being voted out. However, Stenhousemuir committee member Robert Turpey, who was also a lawyer, and strongly supported by the other clubs, was successful in raising an interim interdict on their behalf.”

The matter was eventually resolved out of court in November 1964 amid promises that the clubs would remain in the SFL and any new league that was formed. Thomson added: “That decision probably marks the start of a move to three professional leagues that started a decade later when the Premier League along with Divisions 1 and 2 were created.”

However, Rangers’ role in the wrangle caused a lot of anger at the time, especially in Stranraer. Present-day committee member Shaun Niven said: “I know that a lot of people in the town were unhappy with what had gone on. Stranraer are Scotland’s third oldest team as we were formed in 1870 after just Queen’s Park and Kilmarnock. We waited over 80 years to be admitted to the old-style Division Two and to be told after ten years that we were not wanted caused a lot of resentment. The clubs that had been targeted rallied round to win their case and remain in the SFL to this day.”

Looking at Rangers’ present predicament, Niven added: “This situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up. We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years ago.

“This whole situation is full of issues going full circle as it has probably accelerated the amalgamation of the SPL and the SFL 15 years after they were spilt apart by SPL sides led by Rangers and Celtic. Now one league body is seen as the way forward.”

Berwick, of course, took a measure of revenge on the park less than two years later when they defeated Rangers 1-0 in a Scottish Cup tie, and now the fate of the club that wanted to expel them and four others could sit in their collective hands.

If it comes to a vote at the SFL, Stranraer would have to balance the prospect of placing Rangers in the First Division for the good of the game overall against their own promotion to the Second Division, as they were the losing play-off side last month and weigh up the benefit of eight local derbies against Queen of the South and Ayr United to an overall package that benefits the SFL overall.

Niven added, “Nothing will be pre-judged based on what happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football overall.”

[SurferRosa]

Theres a thread titled wait for it "Should We Be Getting Sympathy " :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

Aye.....:faf::faf::faf:...i read that one.. :faf:

[Dashing Bob S]

Too late for him IMO. There's a difference between doing the right thing because you want tae and changing your mind because you ken you're going tae be on the losing side and suffer a double penalty of nae huns and a boycott of other supporters.

Exactly how I feel about it. A spineless coward who tried to look after his own interests, and wasn't even blessed with the common sense to determine what that was. Way too late for a U-turn as far as I'm concerned, I won't be putting money in the pocket f this sad quisling.

[Nailrod]

Why bother asking the fans if you're gonna load the options? Pretty pathetic really.
It's as bad as heating ping-pong balls. :wink:

Worth bearing in mind that should any kind of 'Rangers' be playing anywhere in Scottish football next season, come Scottish Cup draw time the traditional heated ping-pong balls are going to be back in service, but to achieve entirely the opposite objective...

[EdinMike]

Although it seems unlikely, I really do hope we are acknowledged as to which clubs vote which way next Wednesday. Surely most will say no now to protect their own behinds but I feel so strongly against any team that sympathize with Sevco 5088 that I will protest against giving them money.

I am now looking to purchase a season ticket now as well, now that this is 'almost' all done and dusted.

[Nailrod]

I don't really get the Kilmarnock hate-fest. Their supporters seem to be as solidly against Newco as anybody else's. As far as the club's directors are concerned, they potentially face a real chance that Killie will go under if Rangers disappear. If Hibs faced that prospect, does anybody believe that RP would be quite so adamant in his 'no to newco' stance?

[Offside Trap]

Exactly how I feel about it. A spineless coward who tried to look after his own interests, and wasn't even blessed with the common sense to determine what that was. Way too late for a U-turn as far as I'm concerned, I won't be putting money in the pocket f this sad quisling.

If we and other teams' fans boycott Killie then they go out of business. Is that what we want for them and more particularly for their fans who have voted "no"?

- Another SPL team disappears because of the Huns cheating?

- Huns feel vindicated and can point and say "told you so"?

- It potentially expedites the new Huns return to SPL?

I think a more measured approach is required than a straightforward boycott. And the Killie fans are going to ensure their club votes no - why punish those same fans?

[Onion]

Could be tough for them, considering a few clubs have made their feelings known about the Rangers situation. Might end up coming down to the options available in who else applies for the space, but who else would apply? A Highland league team? Spartans? Whoever it is would need to have some financial backing.

Any club who's position is more influenced by financial need than sporting integrity should probably be out of business anyway, and should not be a part of this league. Their position is fatally and morally compromised. The Killie Board should have the guts to recognise this and restructure the club. If that means going into Admin, starting again with a sustainable financial model, then so be it.

If one thing has come out of this it's that other SPL teams can't live or die on the existence of 2 other teams who they have no control over.

[Lucius Apuleius]

You make a very good point. Would the same have happened pre internet days?

[Ray_]

Any club who's position is more influenced by financial need than sporting integrity should probably be out of business anyway, and should not be a part of this league. Their position is fatally and morally compromised. The Killie Board should have the guts to recognise this and restructure the club. If that means going into Admin, starting again with a sustainable financial model, then so be it.

If one thing has come out of this it's that other SPL teams can't live or die on the existence of 2 other teams who they have no control over.


It’s been said many times on here "the fans are the club", why should the hard core Killie fans lose their club because of the current guardian? It wasn't the fans fault in 1990, when we were vulnerable & if it wasn't for the golden generation, our debts would have been far more than it is today.

With rangers, for the non arrogant fans, who support their club for the right reasons, I have sympathy, however, they have far too many that are outside that category & that’s why there the attitude towards them is so different.

[Leithenhibby]

Any club who's position is more influenced by financial need than sporting integrity should probably be out of business anyway, and should not be a part of this league. Their position is fatally and morally compromised. The Killie Board should have the guts to recognise this and restructure the club. If that means going into Admin, starting again with a sustainable financial model, then so be it.

If one thing has come out of this it's that other SPL teams can't live or die on the existence of 2 other teams who they have no control over.

100% :agree:

Scottish football is on a "crest of a wave" just hold on as it could be a bumpy ride .... :wink:

[Ritchie]

It’s been said many times on here "the fans are the club", why should the hard core Killie fans lose their club because of the current guardian? It wasn't the fans fault in 1990, when we were vulnerable & if it wasn't for the golden generation, our debts would have been far more than it is today.

With rangers, for the non arrogant fans, who support their club for the right reasons, I have sympathy, however, they have far too many that are outside that category & that’s why there the attitude towards them is so different.

I didn't know Killie had hardcore fans.... They must be the Brian Kerr of Scottish Football fans

[Nailrod]

You make a very good point. Would the same have happened pre internet days?

What, all 13,682 of us? :wink:

[Nailrod]

Any club who's position is more influenced by financial need than sporting integrity should probably be out of business anyway, and should not be a part of this league. Their position is fatally and morally compromised. The Killie Board should have the guts to recognise this and restructure the club. If that means going into Admin, starting again with a sustainable financial model, then so be it.

If one thing has come out of this it's that other SPL teams can't live or die on the existence of 2 other teams who they have no control over.

"Going into admin and starting again with a sustainable financial model" is all very well for you, the Killie Board, and the clubs supporters. What about the local businesses who have supplied goods and services to Killie in good faith - many of which will be owned or run by supporters - whose bills won't be paid? Should they just have to take the hit and like it or lump it?

As another poster has pointed out, if it were not for the great good fortune we enjoyed with 'the golden generation", who brought us in about 12 million in transfer fees, we ourselves would be in a very difficult place. We were lucky enough to be able to sort out our financial problems with the minimum of off-field disruption.

Suppose we hadn't had that good fortune, and you were the owner of a small business who stood to lose your living, along with your employees, while Hibs "went into admin, and started again with a sustainable financial model" How cavalier would your talk be then?

I think some people on this board are overdosing on self-righteousness.

[JeMeSouviens]

"Going into admin and starting again with a sustainable financial model" is all very well for you, the Killie Board, and the clubs supporters. What about the local businesses who have supplied goods and services to Killie in good faith - many of which will be owned or run by supporters - whose bills won't be paid? Should they just have to take the hit and like it or lump it?

As another poster has pointed out, if it were not for the great good fortune we enjoyed with 'the golden generation", who brought us in about 12 million in transfer fees, we ourselves would be in a very difficult place. We were lucky enough to be able to sort out our financial problems with the minimum of off-field disruption.

Suppose we hadn't had that good fortune, and you were the owner of a small business who stood to lose your living, along with your employees, while Hibs "went into admin, and started again with a sustainable financial model" How cavalier would your talk be then?

I think some people on this board are overdosing on self-righteousness.

:agree:

Don't forget selling the old car park (waste ground) behind the terracing near the top of the property bubble, that got us almost another £10M. For all the talk of Petrie's financial acumen and "wock solid" accounts, Hibs have had some pretty hefty slices of luck.

[blackpoolhibs]

"Going into admin and starting again with a sustainable financial model" is all very well for you, the Killie Board, and the clubs supporters. What about the local businesses who have supplied goods and services to Killie in good faith - many of which will be owned or run by supporters - whose bills won't be paid? Should they just have to take the hit and like it or lump it?

As another poster has pointed out, if it were not for the great good fortune we enjoyed with 'the golden generation", who brought us in about 12 million in transfer fees, we ourselves would be in a very difficult place. We were lucky enough to be able to sort out our financial problems with the minimum of off-field disruption.

Suppose we hadn't had that good fortune, and you were the owner of a small business who stood to lose your living, along with your employees, while Hibs "went into admin, and started again with a sustainable financial model" How cavalier would your talk be then?

I think some people on this board are overdosing on self-righteousness.

What do you suggest we should have done, cheated the tax man? We got into that mess because we overspent, that was our fault completely. As in any other walk of life, if you spend a penny more than you earn, you are very soon going to find you have problems.

Now you either address those problems, and run more efficiently, or you get into more debt and in my opinion thats not advisable.

Running Kilmarnock's finances on the amount of Rangers fans they get through the door is a ridiculous way to work, their attendance should be looked at as a bonus, not a way of breaking even.

[JeMeSouviens]

Glad to hear somebody else voicing this opinion. I've mentioned it a few times but felt that I was being accused of being unnecessarily vindictive since a 'no' vote was assured and it didn't matter what the fence-sitters were going to do. I hope Johnston and Killie get it tight next season.

Johnston is by all accounts a Hun first, Killie second man, Kenny Shiels much the same. The Killie fans, on the other hand, are solidly behind blocking New Huns and will vote accordingly, imo.

Now is not the time to drive wedges between the other clubs. We should rally round all the remaining SPL clubs. Hopefully, the Killie fans will get rid of this chancer running their club.

[greenginger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9352507/Rapid-Vienna-report-Rangers-to-Fifa-over-Nikica-Jelavic-debt.html#


Yet another problem for Mr Green. I can see a UEFA ruling that all these debts have to be cleared before Sevco Gers are allowed to play in Europe once their 3 year ban is up.

That will be another £ 2 million the Yorkshire Lad will have to charm out of his " consortium ". :greengrin

[Paisley Hibby]

Johnston is by all accounts a Hun first, Killie second man, Kenny Shiels much the same. The Killie fans, on the other hand, are solidly behind blocking New Huns and will vote accordingly, imo.

Now is not the time to drive wedges between the other clubs. We should rally round all the remaining SPL clubs. Hopefully, the Killie fans will get rid of this chancer running their club.

:top marks

[Caversham Green]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9352507/Rapid-Vienna-report-Rangers-to-Fifa-over-Nikica-Jelavic-debt.html#


Yet another problem for Mr Green. I can see a UEFA ruling that all these debts have to be cleared before Sevco Gers are allowed to play in Europe once their 3 year ban is up.

That will be another £ 2 million the Yorkshire Lad will have to charm out of his " consortium ". :greengrin

I think they've got that wrong. According to the CVA proposal the amount due from Everton will go to the old club and become part of the liquidation fund.

[Mon Dieu4]

Always knew he was a few sandwiches short but it appears Lee Wallace has agreed to transfer to the newco, does that mean that the newco will still have to stump up the cash for him or face sanctions or does that still lie with the Huns?

[Twa Cairpets]

Always knew he was a few sandwiches short but it appears Lee Wallace has agreed to transfer to the newco, does that mean that the newco will still have to stump up the cash for him or face sanctions or does that still lie with the Huns?

Story here: http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=223999

Also, just a thought. That website is "Official". Official to who? Oldhun are liquidated, and therefore shouldnt presumably be incurring further cost in maintaining a website promoting a now non-existent football team. If its for newhunsevco, then why are they called Rangers, why do they have the badge with the stars, and most laughably, who do they have a little logo saying "1872-2012" celebrating 140 years...:greengrin.

[Geo_1875]

Always knew he was a few sandwiches short but it appears Lee Wallace has agreed to transfer to the newco, does that mean that the newco will still have to stump up the cash for him or face sanctions or does that still lie with the Huns?

That is a strange one. You'd expect that if his contract is transferred from oldHun to newHun then so would the balance of his unpaid transfer fee. If not, this looks very like the asset stripping that Green was being accused of planning.

[Nailrod]

That is a strange one. You'd expect that if his contract is transferred from oldHun to newHun then so would the balance of his unpaid transfer fee. If not, this looks very like the asset stripping that Green was being accused of planning.

The whole thing is bizarre. I don't see how football regulations would allow either Oldco or Newco to hold on to the registration of a player they never paid for.

[Jim44]

Johnston is by all accounts a Hun first, Killie second man, Kenny Shiels much the same. The Killie fans, on the other hand, are solidly behind blocking New Huns and will vote accordingly, imo.

Now is not the time to drive wedges between the other clubs. We should rally round all the remaining SPL clubs. Hopefully, the Killie fans will get rid of this chancer running their club.

Point taken. If Johnston votes 'no' it will be purely because of the fans and I would reluctantly give them the benefit of the doubt. Likewise I would hope the fans would take some in-house measures to vent their feelings and objections to their unprincipled chairman.

[Jim44]

That is a strange one. You'd expect that if his contract is transferred from oldHun to newHun then so would the balance of his unpaid transfer fee. If not, this looks very like the asset stripping that Green was being accused of planning.

I think 'theft' is a more realistic term to use here.

[StevieC]

I suspect that those players that will get their wages matched elsewhere will not transfer over to Newco. Those on high wages that will struggle to get them matched will transfer over.
I suspect the decisions will be purely financial, rather than any sense of loyalty to Mr Green.

This is fine though, because it will not suit Newco to be paying large wages for players if they are playing in Division 3 (if at all).

[Andy74]

I suspect that those players that will get their wages matched elsewhere will not transfer over to Newco. Those on high wages that will struggle to get them matched will transfer over.
I suspect the decisions will be purely financial, rather than any sense of loyalty to Mr Green.

This is fine though, because it will not suit Newco to be paying large wages for players if they are playing in Division 3 (if at all).

Yep. I suspect many will transfer, take the big wage and wait until Rangers need to sell them.

[Just Alf]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9352507/Rapid-Vienna-report-Rangers-to-Fifa-over-Nikica-Jelavic-debt.html#


Yet another problem for Mr Green. I can see a UEFA ruling that all these debts have to be cleared before Sevco Gers are allowed to play in Europe once their 3 year ban is up.

That will be another £ 2 million the Yorkshire Lad will have to charm out of his " consortium ". :greengrin


Always knew he was a few sandwiches short but it appears Lee Wallace has agreed to transfer to the newco, does that mean that the newco will still have to stump up the cash for him or face sanctions or does that still lie with the Huns?

Hmmm.... pop quiz for the Huns....

Is it the same old club under a new company? (therefore all footy penalties will apply)

OR

is it a nice shiney new club created by Sevco who managed to buy the assets of the dead and buried old club (= no footy "penalties" but you're starting again so I hope you were getting your SFL application ready while you wasted time with an SPL application)

:greengrin


oh and PS.... as you all said you didnae want to see the rules changed to punish you "more" than deserved I guess that means you do want to start of correctly in the existing structure..... so just remember to include Sevco's accounts for the last 3 years or you'll be bumped from the SFL application as well! :cb

[SurferRosa]

Interesting to note that the word "integrity" is not mentioned at all in this statement. And is it not more than a little pathetic to include the phrase, "Kilmarnock Football Club, which is of course entirely blameless in this situation..."? Does he mean to imply that other SPL clubs ARE to blame? Thank heavens he's not our Chairman.

They could always resign from the SPL if they cant afford to play in it......i`m fairly sure that SFL costs wont be as high. Cut your cloth and find your level, clearly the SPL is to high a level for Kilmarnock.

[johnrebus]

With the wages due in the next few days, where is the money coming from exactly? Green has not even come up with the full £5.5m yet and its rumoured that there is no Newco bank account........,


Goodbye dear Hun, you will not be missed.



:bye:

[GreenCastle]

From the Raith Rovers Official site - http://www.raithrovers.net/3766/statement-of-board-of-directors.htm

Raith Rovers FC continues to closely monitor developments in the saga of who will replace the liquidated Rangers within Scottish football.
As proud members of the Scottish Football League, we may soon be called upon to consider proposals for the way forward not only in relation to any vacancy that may arise in our league but also in respect of the future construction of the game in Scotland.
Whilst we retain an open mind on the subject of league reconstruction, and will carefully consider any proposal put to us by the SFL board in this regard, the board of directors of Raith Rovers FC is unanimous in its view that we shall certainly not cast our vote in favour of any integrated plan that in our view compromises sporting integrity by involving the admission of any ‘Newco’ directly into Division One.

:aok::thumbsup:

[Phil MaGlass]

Johnston is by all accounts a Hun first, Killie second man, Kenny Shiels much the same. The Killie fans, on the other hand, are solidly behind blocking New Huns and will vote accordingly, imo.

Now is not the time to drive wedges between the other clubs. We should rally round all the remaining SPL clubs. Hopefully, the Killie fans will get rid of this chancer running their club.

This, clubs really do have to stick together right now, clubs who vote yes should definitely get it tight.
Killie fans also want newco to be burned, their clubs have to listen to the fans, theres no other way, chairmen who vote for newco will have to take the consequences from their own fans anger, non-renewals and having less or no visiting supporters, its that simple.
This coming season could be a real eye opener, I truly believe that if newco are burned to div 3 you will see a more competitive and better SPL than in previous years, fans will be relieved and happy there are no visits to and from the Bigot den Ibrox. Im not saying attendances will go up, as many will still be aggrieved at the Medias,SPL,s and SFA,s handling, bending over backwards,lack of action, asskissin of the bun and may be lost to the game already, but, as I say, the season WILL be alot more enjoyable .
I envisage a bigger league, a better set up and fans coming back to the game in the coming next years. Just a pity they hadnt left us to England a few years earlier, mind you watching them going tits up over the past few months and watching supporters from all over Scotland joining as one against them has been ****ing wonderful and has made it a brilliant spectacle. All we need to do now once they have been burned is demand action on their bigot fans and put in place a penalty system of points deducted, relegated etc in place, for when they are re-admitted to the bottom of the 3rd in the SFL, kick the *******s while they are down, its the only way they will learn.

Glory Glory to the SPL supporters.

[green glory]

From the Raith Rovers Official site - http://www.raithrovers.net/3766/statement-of-board-of-directors.htm

Raith Rovers FC continues to closely monitor developments in the saga of who will replace the liquidated Rangers within Scottish football.
As proud members of the Scottish Football League, we may soon be called upon to consider proposals for the way forward not only in relation to any vacancy that may arise in our league but also in respect of the future construction of the game in Scotland.
Whilst we retain an open mind on the subject of league reconstruction, and will carefully consider any proposal put to us by the SFL board in this regard, the board of directors of Raith Rovers FC is unanimous in its view that we shall certainly not cast our vote in favour of any integrated plan that in our view compromises sporting integrity by involving the admission of any ‘Newco’ directly into Division One.

:aok::thumbsup:







No surprises here considering the drooling maggot-folk of Mordor were all for torching Stark's Park.

Once we start getting similar statements from Elgin City and Albion Rovers, Charlie Green would be as well bringing in the bulldozers.

[Sylar]

I know Alex Thomson has spoken a lot of sense since this entire saga began to unfold in February, but I thought this was in very poor taste indeed:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2s1rh8p.gif

He has since apologised on Twitter, saying he "wasn't aware of the nature of the memorial".

For someone who has done so much research into the club this past year, I find this astonishing to be honest.

[johnrebus]

I know Alex Thomson has spoken a lot of sense since this entire saga began to unfold in February, but I thought this was in very poor taste indeed:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2s1rh8p.gif

He has since apologised on Twitter, saying he "wasn't aware of the nature of the memorial".

For someone who has done so much research into the club this past year, I find this astonishing to be honest.



I did'nt know the nature of it either, but I can guess what it is now.


An honest mistake, which he has apologised for.



:cb

[oxymoron]

Lee Wallace

His position is just mental. Green has no intention of stumping up big wages to keep this club going - wherever that may be. Whittaker and Naismith could see that, so the choices for them (as with Wallace), given that they would never kick a ball again for any version of the huns, was to go to the Newco and be sold off to the highest bidder as soon as, or take control of their own destiny and refuse - thereby negotiating on their own terms with a club of their choosing. Its a no-brainer! Who the hell is advising Wallace on that one? Even if he could not secure top dollar wage-wise with a new club, he would more than make up the difference with a negotiated signing-on fee as a free agent. Mental!!

[Sylar]

I did'nt know the nature of it either, but I can guess what it is now.


An honest mistake, which he has apologised for.



:cb

Except, he did know about the nature of the memorial:

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-rack/818

[green glory]

Considering Green's ham-fisted attempts at negotiating with the SPL, the other clubs chairmen and the PFA, would it be too cynical to suggest he's trying to piss off everyone accidentally on purpose?

After all he's made no secret he's in this for the money despite his overtures to the orcs.

Maybe no real intention to play football at Ibroke, just after the assets and that's always been the plan?

[lapsedhibee]

I know Alex Thomson has spoken a lot of sense since this entire saga began to unfold in February, but I thought this was in very poor taste indeed:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2s1rh8p.gif

He has since apologised on Twitter, saying he "wasn't aware of the nature of the memorial".

For someone who has done so much research into the club this past year, I find this astonishing to be honest.

Shirley that image is taking the piss out of John Greig, whom Thomson has repeatedly vilified in his blogs for walking away from his legal responsibilities as a director, rather than taking the piss out of the memory of dead fitba fans? :confused:

[Cabbage East]

I know Alex Thomson has spoken a lot of sense since this entire saga began to unfold in February, but I thought this was in very poor taste indeed:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2s1rh8p.gif

He has since apologised on Twitter, saying he "wasn't aware of the nature of the memorial".

For someone who has done so much research into the club this past year, I find this astonishing to be honest.


I posted this the other day, I had no idea what it was for either. Why would he post it knowing what it meant?

Have a think.

[johnrebus]

Shirley that image is taking the piss out of John Greig, whom Thomson has repeatedly vilified in his blogs for walking away from his legal responsibilities as a director, rather than taking the piss out of the memory of dead fitba fans? :confused:


:agree:

[Sylar]

Shirley that image is taking the piss out of John Greig, whom Thomson has repeatedly vilified in his blogs for walking away from his legal responsibilities as a director, rather than taking the piss out of the memory of dead fitba fans? :confused:

Quite possibly, but knowing the significance of the statue, surely you would find another way to symbolise it?


I posted this the other day, I had no idea what it was for either. Why would he post it knowing what it meant?

Have a think.

Clearly he does know what it means:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95XT907aUiw

[bighairyfaeleith]

Shirley that image is taking the piss out of John Greig, whom Thomson has repeatedly vilified in his blogs for walking away from his legal responsibilities as a director, rather than taking the piss out of the memory of dead fitba fans? :confused:

aye but the orcs will use any opportunity to show how they are being victimised at the moment

[SJNB Hibby]

Latest classic comment from FollowFollow

"If it wasn't my club it was happening to, it would be laughable. We find ourselves not getting voted into the spl. Now we have teams in div1 saying no, then when they have said no we will have div3 saying no!"

Well said pal-it's no my club and I'm grinning from ear to ear:greengrin

[scoopyboy]

Lee Wallace

His position is just mental. Green has no intention of stumping up big wages to keep this club going - wherever that may be. Whittaker and Naismith could see that, so the choices for them (as with Wallace), given that they would never kick a ball again for any version of the huns, was to go to the Newco and be sold off to the highest bidder as soon as, or take control of their own destiny and refuse - thereby negotiating on their own terms with a club of their choosing. Its a no-brainer! Who the hell is advising Wallace on that one? Even if he could not secure top dollar wage-wise with a new club, he would more than make up the difference with a negotiated signing-on fee as a free agent. Mental!!

Gary Mackay!!!!!!!!!:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

With the wages due in the next few days, where is the money coming from exactly? Green has not even come up with the full £5.5m yet and its rumoured that there is no Newco bank account........,


Goodbye dear Hun, you will not be missed.



:bye:

The wages for the players and staff who haven't transferred to Sevco will be due by the OldCo.

[Hibs90]

So all these clubs saying no etc...what if they vote otherwise? Secret ballot ain't it? So we would have no way of knowing for sure. Clubs saying no could just be doing this purely to up season ticket sales or increase their status with supporters. Wouldn't surprise if some clubs voted for Rangers despite saying they wouldn't. We will never know the truth with regards to this if it is indeed a secret ballot.

[Twa Cairpets]

So all these clubs saying no etc...what if they vote otherwise? Secret ballot ain't it? So we would have no way of knowing for sure. Clubs saying no could just be doing this purely to up season ticket sales or increase their status with supporters. Wouldn't surprise if some clubs voted for Rangers despite saying they wouldn't. We will never know the truth with regards to this if it is indeed a secret ballot.

Not a chance of it happening. The fallout would be of a truly armageddon-esque nature.

[Gus Fring]

So all these clubs saying no etc...what if they vote otherwise? Secret ballot ain't it? So we would have no way of knowing for sure. Clubs saying no could just be doing this purely to up season ticket sales or increase their status with supporters. Wouldn't surprise if some clubs voted for Rangers despite saying they wouldn't. We will never know the truth with regards to this if it is indeed a secret ballot.

I believe the Newco had the option of requesting a secret ballot but haven't asked for it yet I don't think? Also, With the number of teams who have voted No we know what the result should be so if it suddenly changed there would be a LOT of angry fans demanding to know who stabbed them in the back.

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

I've read many articles on the subject but yet to find a definitive answer to my question. Hoping someone out there can help.

Do the "assets" obtained by the "NewCo" include the stadium and training ground? If so how were they able to be transferred for a sum clearly below realisable market value? Is that not an illegal and complicit act of financial irregualrity?
I thought thte old cos assets had to be held by the receiver and sold off to fund debt recovery for their creditors.
Dunno?:dunno:

[McSwanky]

Quite possibly, but knowing the significance of the statue, surely you would find another way to symbolise it?



Clearly he does know what it means:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95XT907aUiw

Seriously? The statue as far as I'm aware is a memorial to John Greig. The plaque underneath, however, is dedicated to the victims of the Ibrox disaster. I don't think the two are related other than the fact that one stands on top of the other???

[CropleyWasGod]

I've read many articles on the subject but yet to find a definitive answer to my question. Hoping someone out there can help.

Do the "assets" obtained by the "NewCo" include the stadium and training ground? If so how were they able to be transferred for a sum clearly below realisable market value? Is that not an illegal and complicit act of financial irregualrity?
I thought thte old cos assets had to be held by the receiver and sold off to fund debt recovery for their creditors.
Dunno?:dunno:

This is a question that has been discussed a lot on here. The truth is, nobody outside of SevCo and RFC knows.

I think they are still in RFC. Others on here think otherwise. Certainly, the accepted truth in the media is that SevCo own them.

[johnrebus]

The wages for the players and staff who haven't transferred to Sevco will be due by the OldCo.


This pot must be dwindling rapidly, especially as Duff & Duffer's fees will be ring fenced?


:cb

[Matty_Jack04]

This pot must be dwindling rapidly, especially as Duff & Duffer's fees will be ring fenced?


:cb

The way green talks Theyv all transferred over so he if he believes his own stories should be readying himself to pay the wages, if it's left too oldco then the Whittaker and Naismith court fights is all pie in the sky and the rest (except lee Wallace) will be offski

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ironically, perhaps the medal gatherer is holding a gun to Wallace's head!

[grunt]

Interesting comment from the Scotsman's Andrew Smith in today's webchat on Rangers.
Somebody commented about how annoying it is that the media still talk about "Rangers", when in fact it is a NewCo called Sevco.
Andrew Smith's reply was interesting.


I can't speak for anyone else. I talk about the Rangers newco being admitted into SPL. You want to have seen Neil Doncaster's face when I first described it thus.

[PatHead]

Re Kilmarnock. I might have more sympathy for their financial plight if they weren't still signing players. I do have sympathy for their fans but if their club is continuing to overspend then they have to face the music.

[thebakerboy]

An interesting thought crossed my mind in the "what if catagorie" . WHAT IF the SFL clubs do not accept Rangers (newco) into the SFL where do they go then? WHAT IF the SFL decide that "say Spartans" have a business plan more suitable and are a club more suitable to play in league 3 , what happens then? Just asking!

[joe breezy]

From KDS

"I am not one for posting rumours, but my Missus uncle is a director with Livingston, so I thought I would give him a wee call to see where they would stand if the huns were parachuted into the SFL 1.

Livi were relegated all the way to division3 for having far less financlal problems than der hun and have had to claw themselves back up the hard way and really fancy their chances of promotion next season.

Apparently they have already contacted their Lawyers with regards to this and have made Longmuir and Regan aware that they would take legal action if any attempt was made to force the huns into 1st division.

Apparently they have been given assurances by Longmuir that if the huns apply to join the SFL then they will have to start from the bottom like everyone else.

Aside from sporting integrity, One of the reasons being, that Longmuir sees the huns in the lower divisions for a minimum of 3 years as being a good way to give all of the smaller clubs a financial boost , rather than just the 1st division teams."

[Gus Fring]

Am I correct in saying that the transfer embargo is still in place? I know the CoS referred it back to the appellate tribunal but they haven't reconvened to decide their fate yet have they? So SEVCO might end up getting a spot in SFL3 but with a bunch of under 18's and possible further punishment (expulsion from Scottish cup etc)

[lapsedhibee]

From KDS

"I am not one for posting rumours, but my Missus uncle is a director with Livingston, so I thought I would give him a wee call to see where they would stand if the huns were parachuted into the SFL 1.

Livi were relegated all the way to division3 for having far less financlal problems than der hun and have had to claw themselves back up the hard way and really fancy their chances of promotion next season.

Apparently they have already contacted their Lawyers with regards to this and have made Longmuir and Regan aware that they would take legal action if any attempt was made to force the huns into 1st division.

Apparently they have been given assurances by Longmuir that if the huns apply to join the SFL then they will have to start from the bottom like everyone else.

Aside from sporting integrity, One of the reasons being, that Longmuir sees the huns in the lower divisions for a minimum of 3 years as being a good way to give all of the smaller clubs a financial boost , rather than just the 1st division teams."

Livi are not comparable to Rongers though. Livi had three years of accounts so were entitled to play in Div 3. Nouveau Rongers don't, so aren't.

[green glory]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. There's over on pieandbovril that Chick Dung's contract hasn't been renewed with the BBC. Probably due to the fact he's made an Emily Blunt of the whole sorry/ funny Rangers saga.

Quote from pieandbovril:


Friedrich Engels
Yesterday, 22:53
i hope this is true, i want Chick to cry so hard milk comes out his nose.

Har Har!

[RyeSloan]

From KDS

"I am not one for posting rumours, but my Missus uncle is a director with Livingston, so I thought I would give him a wee call to see where they would stand if the huns were parachuted into the SFL 1.

Livi were relegated all the way to division3 for having far less financlal problems than der hun and have had to claw themselves back up the hard way and really fancy their chances of promotion next season.

Apparently they have already contacted their Lawyers with regards to this and have made Longmuir and Regan aware that they would take legal action if any attempt was made to force the huns into 1st division.

Apparently they have been given assurances by Longmuir that if the huns apply to join the SFL then they will have to start from the bottom like everyone else.

Aside from sporting integrity, One of the reasons being, that Longmuir sees the huns in the lower divisions for a minimum of 3 years as being a good way to give all of the smaller clubs a financial boost , rather than just the 1st division teams."

The SFL have been clear from the start that any club (Newco or not) applying to the SFL would be applying to joining Div 3 and all other clubs would shuffle up. Longmuir stated this unequivocally not too long ago.

The Div 1 nonsense is coming from the SFA's recently new found desire to amalgamate the leagues. This is probably a good idea and hopefully will happen along with a full and proper pyramid system but it's absolutely certain that the technical, logistical and commercial considerations and agreements to make this happen will not be completed before the season starts.

The route is now clear. Once the SPL vote no to Servco they will need to apply to the SFL. That application will be for a spot in Div 3. However other teams will be able to apply as well. The members of the SFL will then vote on who to accept.

However Servco would appear to be all over the place in terms of financing, players, asset ownership etc so I would seriously doubt they will be in any fit state to provide the SFL with anything approaching a 'proper' application. This would open the door for Spartans or the like to take the available slot.

This will of course mean there is no free spot for any team or newco to apply for in 2013/2014 season....and this is where league reconstruction will come in...however even this will probably maintain or reduce the teams in combined SPL/SFL so any newco may well be looking to a regional division as a starting point. Maybe I'm biased so reading this wrong but if this comes to pass we could be without any reincarnation of the huns for as much as 5 years.

[lapsedhibee]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. There's over on pieandbovril that Chick Dung's contract hasn't been renewed with the BBC. Probably due to the fact he's made an Emily Blunt of the whole sorry/ funny Rangers saga.

Quote from pieandbovril:


Friedrich Engels
Yesterday, 22:53
i hope this is true, i want Chick to cry so hard milk comes out his nose.

Har Har!

Cue Hun forums referring to BBC from now on as timmyridden.

[The Sea-gull]

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

[InchHibby]

Now that Raith and Falkirk are to vote against the cheats entering the First Division, hope that the remainder do the same and ditto Division Three.

[Spike Mandela]

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

I would imagine this is what was discussed at the six hour hastily arranged meeting between the SFA, SPL and SFL. Now however Regan, Doncaster and especially David Longmuir have to persuade enough SFL clubs to parachute newco into second tier of any reconstruction. No easy task.

[ancient hibee]

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

[Steve20]

They won't get into the First Division. It'll be the Third Division, if any.

[ScottB]

Personally this would be my plan...

This season we are out of time as it is, the teams moving up are going to struggle to react in time, but so be it. As soon as possible a vote among the SFL clubs should be held. At this stage I would argue that 'Rangers' are not in a state to play in any league and it is starting to look like the SFL clubs know this too.

So let's assume 'Rangers' are out of it and another team takes the empty slot, so for our purposes lets say Spartans. The season carries on as normal.

For season 2013/14 league reconstruction kicks in, the leagues merge together, a 16 team top league, with two 14 team leagues below it, giving room for 2 more clubs to join the lowest division, which could well include new Rangers or they could find themselves in whatever pyramid structure that is created to exist below that. In addition the League Cup is reformated to include an initial regional group stage to increase the number of derby matches for media interest.

[HibsMax]

Maybe they could be punted to the First with no chance of promotion for a minimum of X years i.e., even if they win the league they are not allowed back into the SPL until they have served their time. That would still give Rangers a chance at both cups, just not chance of playing in the top flight for a couple of seasons.

[LancashireHibby]

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.
The Division Three clubs would make a shedful, it would just be a case of an increased police bill (albeit a sizeable one) and making the games all-ticketing, but I'm sure they'd be happy to do the extra work for what in some cases would probably be a gate ten times their average attendance. This has already occured in the English non-league when Chester/Halifax/FC United/AFC Wimbledon have taken thousands to little non-league grounds (or at least neighbouring pro stadiums) so I'm sure there's a way around it. Little difference to being drawn at home to either of the bigot brothers in the cup.

[ScottB]

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

The First Division clubs that have spoken publicly seem pretty clear about not wanting them...

[jgl07]

What is the voting structure in the SFL? Is it one vote per club irrespective of Division?

Before the SPL breakaway, it used to be something like 4 votes for Premier Division clubs, 3 for First Division, etc.

[Dashing Bob S]

They ripped of Millwall and sang 'no one likes us, we don't care.'

Well, from what I've been reading on Follow Follow, they lied about the second part of that statement.

I think it's now becoming increasingly hard to envisage any place for this much-hated institution at any level of the game, anywhere. Their arrogant attitude down the years, and that of their snivelling toadies in the media and football administration has hardened attitudes against them.

[Dashing Bob S]

Personally this would be my plan...

This season we are out of time as it is, the teams moving up are going to struggle to react in time, but so be it. As soon as possible a vote among the SFL clubs should be held. At this stage I would argue that 'Rangers' are not in a state to play in any league and it is starting to look like the SFL clubs know this too.

So let's assume 'Rangers' are out of it and another team takes the empty slot, so for our purposes lets say Spartans. The season carries on as normal.

For season 2013/14 league reconstruction kicks in, the leagues merge together, a 16 team top league, with two 14 team leagues below it, giving room for 2 more clubs to join the lowest division, which could well include new Rangers or they could find themselves in whatever pyramid structure that is created to exist below that. In addition the League Cup is reformated to include an initial regional group stage to increase the number of derby matches for media interest.

The way things are stacking up, the scenario you've just outlined seems to be shaping up as the most likely. I would argue that there are just too many obstacles in place to see Rangers field a club at any level of the Scottish game for the 2012-13 season. Scottish Football does need re-organised radically, but that should be done in a considered way, and not to be the salvation of one club. The strength of feeling of the other supporters shows this.

The biggest fear for Rangers is being absent for a season and that season shows no discernible decrease in the number of fans attending football games in Scotland, ie: that more supporters lost to the game return as the vile bigots are absent, or that the glory hunting element of the Hun support turn to their local teams.

[jgl07]

Rangers team list at present:

Allan McGonner
Tata Papac
Free Wallace
Dorin Gone
Adios Bocanegra
Steven Whitcontract
Release McCabe
Gone Aluko
Leave Davis
Steven Naicontract
Solong Kerkhar
Jamie Less

(Lifted from Blue moon)

[McSwanky]

Rangers team list at present:

Allan McGonner
Tata Papac
Free Wallace
Dorin Gone
Adios Bocanegra
Steven Whitcontract
Release McCabe
Gone Aluko
Leave Davis
Steven Naicontract
Solong Kerkhar
Jamie Less

(Lifted from Blue moon)

:tee hee:

[McSwanky]

The Division Three clubs would make a shedful, it would just be a case of an increased police bill (albeit a sizeable one) and making the games all-ticketing, but I'm sure they'd be happy to do the extra work for what in some cases would probably be a gate ten times their average attendance. This has already occured in the English non-league when Chester/Halifax/FC United/AFC Wimbledon have taken thousands to little non-league grounds (or at least neighbouring pro stadiums) so I'm sure there's a way around it. Little difference to being drawn at home to either of the bigot brothers in the cup.

Question: Practically, how will they make a shedful? I honestly can't see how that would be the case.

[rcarter1]

Given the continuing bad news for Rangers why didn't they just -

Take a 100,000,000 mortgage over 25 years at 5% before going into administration. :greengrin
This would have resulted in yearly payments of £7,000,000 from a turnover of between 40 and 60 million. Leaving 33-53 million turnover to run the club. Apart from the difficulty in arranging a mortgage of such a size, the only reason they wouldn't do this is that they didn't want to lose ground on Celtic, as they would still be streets ahead of the rest of us..

Selfish fools that they are we all now have to pay for their absence! :confused:

[LancashireHibby]

Question: Practically, how will they make a shedful? I honestly can't see how that would be the case.
Because clubs who are used to having 400 fans a week will get a gate of 4,000, so will make substantially more than x number of home games. Even with the associated costs of hosting a crowd that size, profit certainly outweighs loss.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I know it's been said elsewhere, but it's worth repeating.

There is a vacancy in the Scottish Leagues following the demise of one team. Should those inheriting the mantle of that team be given preference over other clubs that have been trying to get into the league for years.

Either Sevco are the same thing as the defunct Rangers FC, with all its financial problems, or they are a brand new club that has to prove its worth on matters like sporting integrity and financial prudence. They cannot be both.

Either way their is no compelling argument for allowing them into the league in front of the likes of Spartans, who have at least can point to evidence that they can run a football club.

Sod this start in Division 3 stuff, either they buy out an existing club the way Airdrie did, or they get down and build something up from the roots. They might like to do what Gretna did and get a place in one of the English regional leagues. It's a golden opportunity for fans of Rangers (No More) to shape their destiny and go where they have always wanted.

[GordonHFC]

All the SFL clubs are trying to set up a position from which they can make the most money.They don't want them in Division 3 because most grounds could not cope with an away support and it would cost them money.They will vote to allow them into Division 1 in return for some dosh being spread around-that way they will benefit financially from Rangers without bearing costs.

And where do we think this dosh is coming from ?

It wont be NewCo as they don't have 2 beans to rub together and it won't be the SPL because each club will be losing money without der hun.

[Just Alf]

Am I correct in saying that the transfer embargo is still in place? I know the CoS referred it back to the appellate tribunal but they haven't reconvened to decide their fate yet have they? So SEVCO might end up getting a spot in SFL3 but with a bunch of under 18's and possible further punishment (expulsion from Scottish cup etc)

That's a good question

If the "club" is intact but within a new holding company then 100% they can't sign anyone until their football debts have been paid (and Rapid V are kicking up at the 1 million they're due!)

If the "club" is all "new and improved" then I don't think that applies.... Although as they're not technically registered in a league at the mo any player signing for them won't be eligible to play anywhere as they won't be personally registered.

In direct answer to the question tho, the 1 year embargo will be on hold just now

[GordonHFC]

What is the voting structure in the SFL? Is it one vote per club irrespective of Division?

Before the SPL breakaway, it used to be something like 4 votes for Premier Division clubs, 3 for First Division, etc.

I read somewhere that they needed 22 of the 29 teams to vote yes or they dont get in.

Partick, Falkirk and Raith Rovers have intimated NO so if you add the 5 teams that Rangers tried to shaft in the 1960's then their goose is cooked.

[horseflesh]

Maybe they could be punted to the First with no chance of promotion for a minimum of X years i.e., even if they win the league they are not allowed back into the SPL until they have served their time. That would still give Rangers a chance at both cups, just not chance of playing in the top flight for a couple of seasons.
It will be all the teams in the SFL that get to vote on this issue not just the 1st division teams, cant really see any possibility of a carve up and Div 3 looks certain.
On the bright side - at least any money Rangers bring to a league will be spread right throughout Scottish football

[Spike Mandela]

Tee hee

https://twitter.com/hmrcgovuk/status/217627480108965888

[yekimevol]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

[whiskyhibby]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

Let's hope so .........good riddance to bad rubbish


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?txgdiu

[jgl07]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

And who is going to step aside to let them in?

[HH81]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

They wont get in league 2, it would have to be lower than conf north :agree:

[EdinMike]

They wouldn't be able to just waltz into League 2, there would be uproars down south as well if that happened. I really think they are buggered now, it seems now that no one wants them or to be associated with them. And for good reason...How did that song go !?

"We are Rangers, super Rangers ! No one likes us we don't care"

Bet you wished you cared now huh ?!

[McSwanky]

Because clubs who are used to having 400 fans a week will get a gate of 4,000, so will make substantially more than x number of home games. Even with the associated costs of hosting a crowd that size, profit certainly outweighs loss.

Taking your figures, an extra 3600 twice a season would give them 7200 extra tickets. Looking at a few teams' web sites (Clyde, Annan, Stirling Albion) they seem to charge a tenner (£9 in Annan's case) for adult entry.

So assuming Sevco fill the stadia with adults (in reality it's likely to be a mix of adults and consessions), they get an extra £72,000 in the one season. Is that a major windfall to those clubs? Agree it's a figure not to be sniffed at, but I don't think it's a deal maker.

As opposed to the usual scenario where the wee teams get a share of the Ibrox gate in a Scottish Cup match, it'd be more like 20,000 tickets at £20 a head (I would imagine) = £400,000.

Taking into account extra policing costs, I'm not sure that it is as much of a sweetener as some people are making out.

(Please note all figures were worked out on the back of a fag packet, and I don't even smoke!)

[LancashireHibby]

Taking your figures, an extra 3600 twice a season would give them 7200 extra tickets. Looking at a few teams' web sites (Clyde, Annan, Stirling Albion) they seem to charge a tenner (£9 in Annan's case) for adult entry.

So assuming Sevco fill the stadia with adults (in reality it's likely to be a mix of adults and consessions), they get an extra £72,000 in the one season. Is that a major windfall to those clubs? Agree it's a figure not to be sniffed at, but I don't think it's a deal maker.

As opposed to the usual scenario where the wee teams get a share of the Ibrox gate in a Scottish Cup match, it'd be more like 20,000 tickets at £20 a head (I would imagine) = £400,000.

Taking into account extra policing costs, I'm not sure that it is as much of a sweetener as some people are making out.

(Please note all figures were worked out on the back of a fag packet, and I don't even smoke!)

I would suggest it's a big windfall indeed. There is precedent of concessions being abolished for such games to help cover costs, and the publicity in the local area would be great for those involved. In all honesty I'm cheating a little as I've been involved in non-league (both in the Conference and below) where games have been played against the likes of Carlisle, FC United and more recently Chester where the cash generated paid the bills for a number of months, something that isn't to be taken for granted. Yes, the policing costs were much less but even those aren't too big an issue as long as the SFA helps clubs to negotiate with the police to keep costs down.

[Scooter]

Someone at work has just said that the newco is in trouble and the administrators might be called? I've not got a clue but can this actually happen?

[LancashireHibby]

Someone at work has just said that the newco is in trouble and the administrators might be called? I've not got a clue but can this actually happen?
I don't see how they could have built up any debts yet for administrators to be called in? That said, they've no income streams either...?

[CropleyWasGod]

Someone at work has just said that the newco is in trouble and the administrators might be called? I've not got a clue but can this actually happen?

Can't see it myself. The only people they will owe money to at the moment would be RFC for the £5.5m. They would sue Sevco before going down the administration route.

However, more twists and turns in this saga than Jinky Johnstone..... :rolleyes:

[HFC 0-7]

Someone at work has just said that the newco is in trouble and the administrators might be called? I've not got a clue but can this actually happen?

Doubt it, they will have bills to pay, if they actually own Murray park and ibrox there will be utiliy bills to pay but I doubt they would have had time to rack up a debt. They will have salaries to pay shortly which will mean they will have an outgoing to HMRC!

Sevco 5088 could have racked up bills elsewhere I suppose, not sure when that company was set up though.

[ScottB]

I don't see how they could have built up any debts yet for administrators to be called in? That said, they've no income streams either...?


Can't see it myself. The only people they will owe money to at the moment would be RFC for the £5.5m. They would sue Sevco before going down the administration route.

However, more twists and turns in this saga than Jinky Johnstone..... :rolleyes:

Well it is wages day on Thursday for them and it's arguable as to where they will find the money to pay that. And of course no doubt the Revenue will take a dim view if anything due fails to come their way...

Other outstanding bills for the upkeep up of the stadium / training ground?

[Seveno]

If there is a vote amongst the SFL clubs to admit Newco to Div 1, then I can't see them getting anywhere near the required number of votes.

Div 1 clubs will be less likely to get the promotion spot whilst 2&3 would miss out on big paydays due from a visit by the Newco Hun. There would have to be a lot of money coming down from the SPL and they will not want to lose any more.

It really is about time they gave up and just applied for SFL3.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well it is wages day on Thursday for them and it's arguable as to where they will find the money to pay that. And of course no doubt the Revenue will take a dim view if anything due fails to come their way...

Other outstanding bills for the upkeep up of the stadium / training ground?

Who do they have wages to pay for, though? Arguably, only Lee Wallace, and he has only been with them a few days.

[Hibernia&Alba]

im actually starting to think that they will apply to the english leagues, Starting at league two must be worth more cash that even the first division. I remember reading that celtic were thinking about this a while back.

The Old Firm have been trying to joing the English leagues for years but have consistently been told they aren't wanted, and that was when Rangers was a viable club. They would have to join the non-league set up, a demotion so deep they might never recover, and so isn't worth risking.

[ScottB]

Who do they have wages to pay for, though? Arguably, only Lee Wallace, and he has only been with them a few days.

Even if the Oldco still has most of the players, didn't Green agree to fund the ongoing costs? If the money to pay those players isn't to come from Sevco, where would it? Especially if he is trying to keep these guys, he must be planning on paying them?

[ancienthibby]

Even if the Oldco still has most of the players, didn't Green agree to fund the ongoing costs? If the money to pay those players isn't to come from Sevco, where would it? Especially if he is trying to keep these guys, he must be planning on paying them?

Doubt that very much - so much of the 'Yorkie Bar man's' plans have been jettisoned already, he has no credence whatsoever in being able to pay anyone anything!!:agree:

If his 'team' ever get into the Third Division, then credit terms from Annan to Peterhead and beyond will become wonderfully unavailable!:faf:

[Caversham Green]

I can't see Sevco going into administration as there's no hope of rescuing a company that hasn't even started trading yet - if they are unable to pay their bills it would be straight into liquidation IMO.

As to the the employment contracts, if they haven't passed over to Sevco, they should have. Ranger FC (IA for the moment soon to be DEID) are not trading and should not be incurring extra unnecessary costs. I think any employees that haven't objected would be automatically transferred over, but that's why there's a 90 day consultation period which Sevco seem to have just ignored. It may be that the transfer is scheduled to take place at the end of this month.

Incidentally, Sevco 5088 is one of many Sevcos registered at Companies House a bit like Ticketus. Sevco 5088's registered office is in London, but there's also a Sevco Scotland Limited registered at Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow. Could that be where the properties have gone?

[Gingertosser]

I can see them being suspended for 1 year and then starting in 3rd Division.

SFA will play some Scotland games & semi finals at Ibroke to keep the lights on for the season.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't see Sevco going into administration as there's no hope of rescuing a company that hasn't even started trading yet - if they are unable to pay their bills it would be straight into liquidation IMO.

As to the the employment contracts, if they haven't passed over to Sevco, they should have. Ranger FC (IA for the moment soon to be DEID) are not trading and should not be incurring extra unnecessary costs. I think any employees that haven't objected would be automatically transferred over, but that's why there's a 90 day consultation period which Sevco seem to have just ignored. It may be that the transfer is scheduled to take place at the end of this month.

Incidentally, Sevco 5088 is one of many Sevcos registered at Companies House a bit like Ticketus. Sevco 5088's registered office is in London, but there's also a Sevco Scotland Limited registered at Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow. Could that be where the properties have gone?

I have a vision of the wee cartoon Clouseau shuffling round Govan looking for a fitba' park.

[Caversham Green]

I have a vision of the wee cartoon Clouseau shuffling round Govan looking for a fitba' park.

Most managers only lose the dressing room.....

[down-the-slope]

I can't see Sevco going into administration as there's no hope of rescuing a company that hasn't even started trading yet - if they are unable to pay their bills it would be straight into liquidation IMO.

As to the the employment contracts, if they haven't passed over to Sevco, they should have. Ranger FC (IA for the moment soon to be DEID) are not trading and should not be incurring extra unnecessary costs. I think any employees that haven't objected would be automatically transferred over, but that's why there's a 90 day consultation period which Sevco seem to have just ignored. It may be that the transfer is scheduled to take place at the end of this month.

Incidentally, Sevco 5088 is one of many Sevcos registered at Companies House a bit like Ticketus. Sevco 5088's registered office is in London, but there's also a Sevco Scotland Limited registered at Ibrox Stadium, Glasgow. Could that be where the properties have gone?

:greengrin Ohh now that is an interesting tit bit....talking of mammaries...if Sevco 5088 go mammaries up due to no income / player wages etc etc...this could be the way Green is screening his investment...will scupper him if Broxy Sevco was in fact looking to 'rent' to Sevco 5088 to service the purchase £5.5 million ....

Much more to give yet from this...certainly enough to fill the close season anyway

[--------]

Worth bearing in mind that should any kind of 'Rangers' be playing anywhere in Scottish football next season, come Scottish Cup draw time the traditional heated ping-pong balls are going to be back in service, but to achieve entirely the opposite objective...

:confused:

I was always told they put them in the fridge ...

[snooky]

I believe the Newco had the option of requesting a secret ballot but haven't asked for it yet I don't think? Also, With the number of teams who have voted No we know what the result should be so if it suddenly changed there would be a LOT of angry fans demanding to know who stabbed them in the back.

That word "integrity" again.
How could the clubs say they put integrity in front of finance and then act integrously?
A double whammy if they do.

[s.a.m]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

[CropleyWasGod]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

By putting the finances, and hence the future, of their clubs at risk?

[Saorsa]

By putting the finances, and hence the future, of their clubs at risk?They'd have been doing that by voting yes and having large numbers of their fans walking away. They had a choice, they made the correct decision.

[hibbybrian]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.

How?

How are they voting "newco" out of the SPL when "newco" are not in the SPL ? :confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

http://www.discogs.com/Marillion-Clutching-At-Straws/master/16128

[BarneyK]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

Deary me, that is desperate. :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

Absolute pish.

Directors have a statutory duty to act in the best interests of the company. Not allowing Newco in to the SPL (as opposed to voting them out) will probably lose their companies some money in the short-term but voting them in will alienate their customer base and could fatally damage their company's long-term prospects. If a club was profit-oriented then there could conceivably be an argument (but still not a good one), but there would be no such thing as a Scottish football league if profit was the motive.

In any case, the complaint of directors in breach of their statutory duties can only come from the shareholders - there is not a club in Scotland other than Sevco 5088 (if they can be called a club) where the shareholders would raise such a complaint.

An irresponsible comment from a halfwit.

[Saorsa]

Absolute pish.

Directors have a statutory duty to act in the best interests of the company. Not allowing Newco in to the SPL (as opposed to voting them out) will probably lose their companies some money in the short-term but voting them in will alienate their customer base and could fatally damage their company's long-term prospects. If a club was profit-oriented then there could conceivably be an argument (but still not a good one), but there would be no such thing as a Scottish football league if profit was the motive.

In any case, the complaint of directors in breach of their statutory duties can only come from the shareholders - there is not a club in Scotland other than Sevco 5088 (if they can be called a club) where the shareholders would raise such a complaint.

An irresponsible comment from a halfwit.:agree: :top marks

[Dashing Bob S]

Absolute pish.

Directors have a statutory duty to act in the best interests of the company. Not allowing Newco in to the SPL (as opposed to voting them out) will probably lose their companies some money in the short-term but voting them in will alienate their customer base and could fatally damage their company's long-term prospects. If a club was profit-oriented then there could conceivably be an argument (but still not a good one), but there would be no such thing as a Scottish football league if profit was the motive.

In any case, the complaint of directors in breach of their statutory duties can only come from the shareholders - there is not a club in Scotland other than Sevco 5088 (if they can be called a club) where the shareholders would raise such a complaint.

An irresponsible comment from a halfwit.

We can expect more of the same from Hun apologists over the coming months. We've had it for decades, after all. The sea change is that nobody is doing anything whatsoever other than laughing in disdain at this sort of pathetic nonsense.

[green glory]

https://twitter.com/bbcallamont/status/217692749879709696

RFC in full self-destruct mode.

[snooky]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. There's over on pieandbovril that Chick Dung's contract hasn't been renewed with the BBC. Probably due to the fact he's made an Emily Blunt of the whole sorry/ funny Rangers saga...................

Let's hope Jim TRanger followfollows his china Chic.

[Baba O'riley]

Is this still planned? Not sure what the interest would be in a demo against "No to Newco", now that 6 clubs have said they will vote no. Would be good to keep momentum going to ensure Newco do end up in the 3rd though, and not in the first...but is that more for the SFL teams to decide now? Are SFL clubs even getting involved in this?

[FranckSuzy]

Is this still planned? Not sure what the interest would be in a demo against "No to Newco", now that 6 clubs have said they will vote no. Would be good to keep momentum going to ensure Newco do end up in the 3rd though, and not in the first...but is that more for the SFL teams to decide now? Are SFL clubs even getting involved in this?

On the facebook page it says it's cancelled :confused:

[Baba O'riley]

Ah right; hadn't seen the FB page. cheers

never mind; Winchburgh galaday it is then on Saturday...

[Eyrie]

Maybe they could be punted to the First with no chance of promotion for a minimum of X years i.e., even if they win the league they are not allowed back into the SPL until they have served their time. That would still give Rangers a chance at both cups, just not chance of playing in the top flight for a couple of seasons.

I've been saying for a while that this would work with a two year ban on promotion, equivalent to the time they would have spent in Divisions Two and Three.

[FranckSuzy]

Ah right; hadn't seen the FB page. cheers

never mind; Winchburgh galaday it is then on Saturday...

No probs :aok: 'The demo planned for the 30th at all grounds against Newco in the SPL has been cancelled. Please inform anyone you know who planned to attend'.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

https://twitter.com/bbcallamont/status/217692749879709696

RFC in full self-destruct mode.

Who will the next four be ???

[SteveHFC]

Alan McGregor - Rumoured to be rejecting switch to newco
Neil Alexander - Out of contract
Scott Gallacher
Grant Adam

Defenders
Dorin Goian
Kirk Broadfoot
Sasa Papac - out of contract
Lee Wallace - Switching to newco
Steven Whittaker - rejected switch to newco
Carlos Bocanegra - rumoured to be rejecting switch to newco/on verge of signing for Toronto
Ross Perry
Chris Hegary - out of contract
Darren Cole - out of contract

Midfielders
Lee McCulloch - Rumoured to be switching to Newco
Maurice Edu
Steven Davis - rejected switch to newco
Alejandro Bedoya
John Fleck
Jamie Ness - rejected switch to newco
Salim Kerkar - out of contract
Kyle Hutton
Andrew Mitchell
Rhys McCabe - rejected switch to Newco
Robbie Crawford
Lewis MacLeod
Barry McKay
Juan Ortiz

Strikers
Kyle Lafferty - rejected switch to newco
Steven Naismith - rejected switch to newco
David Healy - out of contract
Andrew Little - out of contract
Sone Aluko - rejected switch to newco
Kane Hemmings

[Dalkeith]

Davis away according to stv reporter

[Westie1875]

Davis away now too according to Twitter :greengrin

[jdships]

Surely this is the ideal time for ALL clubs , SPL, Div 1/2/3 , to STOP THINK AND ACT WISELY to ensure we have a " level playing field" and a fair share of revenue across ALL the clubs .
It is a once in a lifetime opportunity to rid ourselves of the massive problems Scottish football has had over the past ten /fifteen ( possibly longer ) years , let's not balls it up .

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

It's like big brother on fast forward ..

[Dalkeith]

Alasdair Lamont ‏@BBCAlLamont

McGregor, Davis, Lafferty and Ness all object

[S.sct]

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

I think this has been a pretty obvious plan B for both the SPL and Newco since the Oldco went bust.

[green glory]

***ake at this rate I'll be getting a game for them next season.

[ScottB]

Can't understand why any certainly first team player would stay, unless they are a fully committed Rangers fan or a Steven Gerrard style 'shady characters on the phone implying bad things may happen' type situation!

If any of them do stay and stick it out in the Third Division, fair play to them in a way. I remember Di Livio staying with the new Fiorentina (the Florentina Viola due the naming issues currently being experienced by Sevco) for example.

[ballengeich]

Davis away according to stv reporter

The captain leading by example. Teammates : - Follow follow me.

[GreenCastle]

"We don't do walking away" - "We do running away!"

Rats deserting a sinking ship :greengrin

[Dalkeith]

The captain leading by example. Teammates : - Follow follow me.

quote from follow follow before it was anounced
"captain is always the last to go"

[lord bunberry]

Macgregor away as well according to ssn

[Col2]

Sevco now have next to ZERO value in transferred playing squad. Begs the question why bother TUPE as would be cheaper to start from scratch rather than at existing inflated contracts eg McCulloch @ £20k pw.

This story just keeps on giving:not worth:not worth

[Jonnyboy]

SPL = No

SFL = No

Glasgow Boys Clubs League = only option

:greengrin

[McSwanky]

I would suggest it's a big windfall indeed. There is precedent of concessions being abolished for such games to help cover costs, and the publicity in the local area would be great for those involved. In all honesty I'm cheating a little as I've been involved in non-league (both in the Conference and below) where games have been played against the likes of Carlisle, FC United and more recently Chester where the cash generated paid the bills for a number of months, something that isn't to be taken for granted. Yes, the policing costs were much less but even those aren't too big an issue as long as the SFA helps clubs to negotiate with the police to keep costs down.

Fair play, I suppose it's money they wouldn't otherwise have received, but I do think some people are making rather more of this windfall than it maybe deserves.

[poolman]

"We don't do walking away" - "We do running away!"

Rats deserting a sinking ship :greengrin

Macgregor away :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

[green glory]

'All my life's blood is slowly draining away,
And I fell that I'm weaker every day',

[blaikie]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showforum=1

The websites even left now :greengrin



Back now ..... need some entertainment tonight :)

[clerriehibs]

David Roberts‏@thesportslawguyDirectors of SPL clubs could be in breach of thier statutory duties by voting #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco out of the SPL.




How?

Desperation ... if this were true, then the directors would also have been obliged to have a clause saying that neither of the old firm could be relegated from the SPL.

[DarrenSQH]

Follow Follow has crashed! lol

[Jonnyboy]

Follow Follow has crashed! lol

Nope, it's bailed out along with most of the players :wink:

[stokesmessiah]

Bears den is an absolute hoot...

"Why is everyone surprised? Disappointed, yes.... Surprised, no.

If Davis, Naismith, Lafferty and co have all decided to leave, you can count on the likes of Boca, Goian etc to follow.

The club is going to have to start from the beginning. We are going to be left with a thread bare squad. The only signings we are going to make are jounrey men. This season is not about competing for titles, its about starting all over again.

Rangers will be strong again, but at this stage having a Rangers (In whatever form) in the most important thing."

Penny has dropped with this little genius !

[Col2]

No club, no history, no players, no league no money and ............... NO HOPE

Christ I am beginning to feel a tiny bit sorry or them.....

[SPL Fans Survey]

Personally this would be my plan...

This season we are out of time as it is, the teams moving up are going to struggle to react in time, but so be it. As soon as possible a vote among the SFL clubs should be held. At this stage I would argue that 'Rangers' are not in a state to play in any league and it is starting to look like the SFL clubs know this too.

So let's assume 'Rangers' are out of it and another team takes the empty slot, so for our purposes lets say Spartans. The season carries on as normal.

For season 2013/14 league reconstruction kicks in, the leagues merge together, a 16 team top league, with two 14 team leagues below it, giving room for 2 more clubs to join the lowest division, which could well include new Rangers or they could find themselves in whatever pyramid structure that is created to exist below that. In addition the League Cup is reformated to include an initial regional group stage to increase the number of derby matches for media interest.


Great minds think alike I've already started on this as part of the next survey and was going to float it for feedback then invite idea's on how to structure it question wise.

So my draft attached just so that when I float you don't think I'm nicking your ideas. :wink:


http://cl.ly/2k1q1X1B272V3U3S2l3M

[stokesmessiah]

Joking aside, everytime i think there luck must be due a turn BANG something else happens.

[stokesmessiah]

No club, no history, no players, no league no money and ............... NO HOPE

Christ I am beginning to feel a tiny bit sorry or them.....

No, no your not.

[Westie1875]

No club, no history, no players, no league no money and ............... NO HOPE

Christ I am beginning to feel a tiny bit sorry or them.....


I'm not :greengrin Keep the bad news coming! :party::banana:

[Minder]

do we have any young guys we could farm out to get a game ( provided SEVCO get in the SFL ), could be our nursery club.

:flag:

[GreenCastle]

Great minds think alike I've already started on this as part of the next survey and was going to float it for feedback then invite idea's on how to structure it question wise.

So my draft attached just so that when I float you don't think I'm nicking your ideas. :wink:


http://cl.ly/2k1q1X1B272V3U3S2l3M

I like the look of that and 3 leagues of 16 - SPL 1,2 and 3 :aok:

Your next survey should be asking the punishment for Rangers / New Club - and what sanctions should they have - e.g points deduction / Euro ban / Transfer ban / Sir David Murray losing knighthood ( Sir Fred Goodwin lost his about the RBS carry on).

[Jonnyboy]

Bears den is an absolute hoot...

"Why is everyone surprised? Disappointed, yes.... Surprised, no.

If Davis, Naismith, Lafferty and co have all decided to leave, you can count on the likes of Boca, Goian etc to follow.

The club is going to have to start from the beginning. We are going to be left with a thread bare squad. The only signings we are going to make are jounrey men. This season is not about competing for titles, its about starting all over again.

Rangers will be strong again, but at this stage having a Rangers (In whatever form) in the most important thing."

Penny has dropped with this little genius !

Does that mean they're now the thready bears?

:greengrin

[The Harp Awakes]

I think this has been a pretty obvious plan B for both the SPL and Newco since the Oldco went bust.

Yep, and I believe the SFA and SPL are behind the plan to get Rangers into div 1. The SFL will be the stumbling block but I'm pretty sure some carrots will be dangled in front of the SFL clubs to incentivise them to vote Rangers into div 1.

[Jonnyboy]

Yep, and I believe the SFA and SPL are behind the plan to get Rangers into div 1. The SFL will be the stumbling block but I'm pretty sure some carrots will be dangled in front of the SFL clubs to incentivise them to vote Rangers into div 1.

On what do you base that view?

[SPL Fans Survey]

Desperation ... if this were true, then the directors would also have been obliged to have a clause saying that neither of the old firm could be relegated from the SPL.

Did have some concerns about this, Something that was said at a meeting I attended!!! :wink:

Basically was that clubs would be premature in stating or prejudging the likely outcome regarding the Rangers situation.

Can't remember the exact words but had me thinking once clubs started stating their intentions.

Was it done deliberately to give them an escape route? ND has been very quiet recently. :dunno:

[Part/Time Supporter]

"Going into admin and starting again with a sustainable financial model" is all very well for you, the Killie Board, and the clubs supporters. What about the local businesses who have supplied goods and services to Killie in good faith - many of which will be owned or run by supporters - whose bills won't be paid? Should they just have to take the hit and like it or lump it?

As another poster has pointed out, if it were not for the great good fortune we enjoyed with 'the golden generation", who brought us in about 12 million in transfer fees, we ourselves would be in a very difficult place. We were lucky enough to be able to sort out our financial problems with the minimum of off-field disruption.

Suppose we hadn't had that good fortune, and you were the owner of a small business who stood to lose your living, along with your employees, while Hibs "went into admin, and started again with a sustainable financial model" How cavalier would your talk be then?

I think some people on this board are overdosing on self-righteousness.

A more accurate comparison would be if Hibs had developed those players and had decided NOT to sell them at or near top of their value. They could have decided to keep them for the duration of their contracts, gambled on achieving more success and generating more income on the pitch. If that had then failed to any great extent and the players left on Bosmans, then Hibs would have been completely stuffed.

Rangers, for they are the ones in difficulty now, always had the option of selling 4-5 players for (say) £20M, which would have gone a long way to clearing their debt or settling the big tax case. They chose instead to gamble everything on qualifying for the Champions League each year. They did it in some years but not enough to make the finances work, therefore the gamble failed. Why should they then get a free pass because they took the irresponsible decision and lost?