Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Sir David Gray]

Principles are one thing. Turning your back on your club when they are in the doo-doo is another.

I think if the new club is admitted into the 1st division next season then a lot of people will be of the opinion that Scottish football is not worth supporting as it is corrupt and rotten to the core.

They will ask, what will be the point in going along to support a club that tries to operate in the correct way and has a limited spending budget as a result and has had years of cost cutting, when there's a club, which has overspent for years, cheated their way to success and bought players they could not afford, that has gone into liquidation, reformed as a new company, gone straight into the second highest division and within a season are more than likely going to be beating us again on a regular basis and challenging for titles again that we can only dream of.

In terms of boycotting any future matches in Scotland, it's not a view that I necessarily share although it is one that I can seriously sympathise with and completely understand.

[The Falcon]

My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks.

The other people you mention in your second sentence, well...I agree with you. But that's a different thing entirely.

As i said in my reply to Dan Rangers have, to date at least, been knocked back at every turn. I think the "apparent corruption" is because some clubs, Kilmarnock being the most vocal, are hugely concerned as Rangers provide a large chunk of their income and all the scare stories put out by Traynor and his cohorts are only adding fuel to their already raging concerns. I do not believe that Hibernian FC are any part of this (nor are Aberdeen or Hearts for that matter) but I can see how some of the other clubs are concerned and that is how this preposterous document was born. I do not believe it will survive.

I dont really see the point about getting so excited about something that, in all probability, is unlikely happen.

[Hibercelona]

Principles are one thing. Turning your back on your club when they are in the doo-doo is another.

Turning your back on the club is one thing.

Turning your back on the club because they play in a league where sporting integrity is non-existant and corruption is blatantly obvious for all to see, is something completely different.

Until Hibs and other clubs make a stance and make it clear that they won't participate in this farce league until things change, I won't be back to Scottish Football either.

Guess i'll "see ya" then.

[ac1]

Said it since this started -

Sevco into Division 3 I will be down to Easter Road for a season ticket

Sevco 'put' into Division 1 I won't be back for good.

Total corruption involved here for the good of one Newco

[The Green Goblin]

It was more of a question than a comment (hence the ?) and an answer would have been more appropraite than you throwing your weight about. Equally, you know nothing of me, however, it would seem my committment is clear and yours less so given the geography and your apparent position on the current topic. Imagine the downfall of Rangers being the ruin of Hibs? Even from your detached position that must seem farcical?


It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.

One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.

The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."

A quick comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.

Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:

[Seveno]

I have every confidence in the SFL clubs to vote so that Sevco will only be offered a place in SFL3. Whether they are in a position to accept the offer is another matter.

Re-structuring will come in season 2013-2014 and I think we'll see the back of Donkey and Regan. The fans and the diddy clubs have flexed their muscles and will do so again.

[Iggy Pope]

Turning your back on the club is one thing.

Turning your back on the club because they play in a league where sporting integrity is non-existant and corruption is blatantly obvious for all to see, is something completely different.

Until Hibs and other clubs make a stance and make it clear that they won't participate in this farce league until things change, I won't be back to Scottish Football either.

Guess i'll "see ya" then.

The bit in bold has yet to be determined, certainly as far as Petrie or Hibs' culpability is concerned, but you hold your principles dear.

[ScottB]

Petrie and the club have stuck to the integrity line throughout, they voted No to the Newco.

What are the clubs thoughts on all this? The line 'it's up to other bodies to decide their fate' is clearly nonsense now, if the SPL Board is involved, then Hibs are involved as part of the SPL.

If Hibs are against these 'negotiations' and haven't been part of this, then they better come out and say so pronto. Silence will do us no favours, certainly if the Board think we will just accept this corrupt attempt to try and appear 'all about the integrity' while working franticly behind the scenes to save Sevco.

[Saorsa]

Petrie and the club have stuck to the integrity line throughout, they voted No to the Newco.

What are the clubs thoughts on all this? The line 'it's up to other bodies to decide their fate' is clearly nonsense now, if the SPL Board is involved, then Hibs are involved as part of the SPL.

If Hibs are against these 'negotiations' and haven't been part of this, then they better come out and say so pronto. Silence will do us no favours, certainly if the Board think we will just accept this corrupt attempt to try and appear 'all about the integrity' while working franticly behind the scenes to save Sevco.Exactly! Where are all these people who spoke of integrity? Their silence over the threats, bribery and blackmail of the SFL clubs seems tae suggest they're no everything they're cracking themselves up tae be.

[Iggy Pope]

It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. Apologies if it wasn't. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.

One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. I have read every post on this thread, for example (sad but true) and read widely in the papers and online etc. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.

The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."

A quick (and friendly) comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.

Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:

None of which makes me look like an idiot. I admire overseas fans support of the club, I really do, but the real doggedness is with folks who have stuck with it and kept this ****ty side uppermost in their list of priority. And most of them do most of the things you detail in your response, as well as taking endless amounts of flak from those sparryheids that you will doubtless avoid in Sao Paolo (or wherever).
Glad that you keep your eye in from another corner of the globe. 20,000 erses on those seats at ER are an immediate priority however and people straining for excuses never to return leaves an awfy sickly taste in the mouth.

[snooky]

If and when "I Can't Believe It's Not Rangers" get voted into the SFL, will any future 'OF' game be a
Donkey Derby?

[grunt]

More from Thomo

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/despicable-actions-scottish-football-authorities/2211


My sources are senior and widely respected figures in Scottish League Football and rarely have I heard men so angry about an invitation to a meeting.

They describe it in many ways, some of which I know my lawyer will not allow me to pass on. So let’s just choose one adjective:

“Despicable.”

Their reaction of course, all flows from that second paragraph of the invitation to next Friday’s meeting where the SFL says:

“That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.”

Read the full invitation here: Rangers – the vote that never was?
(http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-vote/2201)
My sources have spoken exclusively to Channel 4 News and say that many in the league are not simply enraged that their vote is being taken away but that the SFA and SPL are now also directly involved and directly involved in effectively gagging the League clubs by stifling their votes.

My sources decline to be identified at this stage but one said:

“They’ve just gone ahead to steamroller us. It’s farcical. They’ve cooked it all up amongst themselves.”

Speaking on condition of anonymity he says there is now very little trust held by many senior League people in either the SFA or the SPL both as organisations in this matter and in terms of the conduct of their respective Chief Executives Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster.

He was one of a number this afternoon accusing Scottish Football of simply tearing up its own rulebook and suggested that either FIFA or UEFA might well be interested in taking a look at what is going on.

I have not been able to contact UEFA, the SFA or the SFL on this matter, it being a weekend.This will further enrage fans across the country who have long suspected a stitch-up. Recent threats and hyperbole from Scottish football’s authorities about “Armageddon” if “Rangers” go to D3 won’t have helped.

Still less the SFA’s Stewart Regan contemplating “social unrest” if “Rangers” disappear. Leaving aside various police forces who dealt with actual social unrest when Rangers FC fans did appear, his wild speculation looked desperate, not least given its hypothetical context.

Like today’s extraordinary letter of intent, it speaks of the utter desperation Scottish football’s governing bodies have to find some way, somehow, somewhere to go on milking the so-called “Rangers” cash-cow.

At least now this latest tactic is unmasked, leaked as they surely knew it would be.

Many will conclude that fans, chairmen and players have five days now to counteract the latest gambit-of-despair from Hampden Park.

[Seveno]

If and when "I Can't Believe It's Not Rangers" get voted into the SFL, will any future 'OF' game be a
Donkey Derby?

Great pun, Snooky. Made me laugh. :greengrin

[ac1]

Went to have a look at RangersMedia to see what they are saying about this (I know I shouldn't bother!)

First thread has a title of 'A ****in hate Roman Catholics'!! :confused:


I thought this kind of thing would have the police kicking in your door at 6 in the morning??


Or do they just go after people growing a bit weed..............

[steakbake]

More from Thomo

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/despicable-actions-scottish-football-authorities/2211

Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

[Baba O'riley]

Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

Vote No to Newco in SFL completely....
but cue the SPL2 formation I'd imagine

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely incredible stuff. What options do they now have?

They can vote No to the second motion.

[Saorsa]

Vote No to Newco in SFL completely....
but cue the SPL2 formation I'd imagineHopefully they'll no get enough clubs tae join that tae make a league.

[steakbake]

They can vote No to the second motion.

But does that not mean its bounced back for a fix?

[CropleyWasGod]

But does that not mean its bounced back for a fix?

That has to be clarified, and I'm sure many will ask before the vote.

However, by that time Sevco will be an an Associate Member of the SFL (ie without a vote), and the rules as they are at the moment don't allow for anybody to be accepted above D3.

[Baba O'riley]

Hopefully they'll no get enough clubs tae join that tae make a league.

:aok: we can but hope...

[steakbake]

That has to be clarified, and I'm sure many will ask before the vote.

However, by that time Sevco will be an an Associate Member of the SFL (ie without a vote), and the rules as they are at the moment don't allow for anybody to be accepted above D3.

We've seen what the rules have meant to those in charge throughout this process.

I'll be interested to see what happens but the shenanigans that has gone on is embarrassing.

[truehibernian]

Strange how Keevins, Traynor, Young, Spiers, King and Co never reveal these exclusives and leaked documents :greengrin

Given they will all have the same sources and no doubt some execs in the SFA, SPL etc feeding them the same info, why is it always left to a journalist, who with no agenda or affection for any Scottish side, gets to the truth :devil:

ooops.....I've answered my own question :greengrin

I read an article about Third Lanark recently, strangely enough I think formed the same year as Rangers. When they went into liquidation there were mirky stories of cheating, payments to players which were untoward, directors being at the lash and 'on the take'..........they disappeared into the amateur leagues of Glasgow eventually I think. I would support such a move next week :agree:

[Paisley Hibby]

If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.

As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.

But, apart from the SEVCO "board", it's not Rangers who want to go to SFL1, it's Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir who want them there - and probably the majority of SPL club chairman. Most of the real Huns want to go to SFL3.

[Paisley Hibby]

[/B]Sorry to state the obvious mate ... you cant resuscitate something that is dead.

As for the rest of that paragraph I presume what you mean is we wont get the new fresh start you think we need.

Things which appear be on the table now as a result of what has happened:

A fair voting system in the SPL which will prevent any two clubs, or even one club, ever being able to dictate to the others again.

A much more equitable sharing out of the money coming into the game, from TV or elsewhere.

A future change to the league systems, which may well lead to a bigger SPL and play offs for promotion and relegation.

A much needed change of mindset in the game which will lead every club to the realisation that putting all of your eggs into one basket is the stupidest way to run a business you can get, and hopefully will lead to a lot of clubs deciding that the way forward is to rip themselves away from the old firm teat.

At the start of last season all of that stuff was a pipe dream ... the fact that its taken this mess to bring it about is unfortunate, but to pass up the opportunities it has presented would just be a bloody waste of a golden chance.

Agree that these changes would be a good start. However, we don't need to have the Huns parachuted into SFL1 to get them. If they do go straight into SFL1 then by this time next year the Huns will be back in the SPL stronger and their fans will be more vile than ever because of what has happened. However, I will not have stuck around to watch.

[alexedwards]

The bit in bold has yet to be determined, certainly as far as Petrie or Hibs' culpability is concerned, but you hold your principles dear.

The document released to the SFL had a sporting integrity v finance reference yet a sporting integrity issue has yet to be determined?
Catch up! The sporting integrity issue relates to moves made out-with Hibs but in the league they play.

[SurferRosa]

jim leishman, brechin chairman, godon mc dougall (livi), ballantine, longmuir, dumbarton director, alloa director.
Been advised by div 2 director clubs will make decision.

Cheers. :aok:

[Lungo--Drom]

Correct. 75% of the Hun season ticket holders who responded to an email poll by the Fighting Fund said they wanted the Newco to go into SFL Div 3. For once I can't criticise that. It is of course the people you list who want to keep their corrupt little empires intact who don't care about sporting integrity, only ea$y buck$.


But, apart from the SEVCO "board", it's not Rangers who want to go to SFL1, it's Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir who want them there - and probably the majority of SPL club chairman. Most of the real Huns want to go to SFL3.

[Hibercelona]

Went to have a look at RangersMedia to see what they are saying about this (I know I shouldn't bother!)

First thread has a title of 'A ****in hate Roman Catholics'!! :confused:


I thought this kind of thing would have the police kicking in your door at 6 in the morning??


Or do they just go after people growing a bit weed..............

Good to see that their site moderators have taken swift action. :rolleyes:

I honestly never knew that an IQ score could fall into the minus zone............ that was until I met a Rangers fan.

[N.Wales Hibby]

It totally seemed like a heavily sarcastic comment and a massive dig. A smiley always helps avoid misunderstandings :wink: A "?" is just what I already expect to see at the end of a question and wasn't really a clue.

One thing that many overseas fans find themselves doing, is religiously staying up to date on everything that goes on back home. Distance only intensifies your need to stay on top of what's going on.

The issue of not going back to watch SPL football is a serious and emotive one facing many Scottish football fans, if Sevco are let off with a div 1 sanction. My answer to this is really what I replied to Falcon above. I wrote "My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks."

A quick comment on the "committment" point you made; there are many ways in which overseas supporters support the club: subscribing to Hibs TV International, arranging your trips back home to allow for the biggest number of trips to see games at ER, buying merchandise online, getting up at 3am to listen to/watch games online, encouraging others to support the club, getting together to watch games and so on.

Many overseas fans, myself included, travelled many thousands of miles and spent a lot of money to come back for the Cup Final in May - less a glory hunt and more of a "need to be there in our lifetime" response to the deep-rooted support of the club that only often intensifies when you are far from home. In most cases, and it certainly was in mine, people couldn't really afford to do it, but found a way. Fans far away often show a very serious committment to the club, even though they can't buy a season ticket - and some folks even do that, even though they can't go! Overseas fans keep their finger on the pulse and do everything they can to play their part. :aok:

No more to be said.:top marks

[PatHead]

Good to see that their site moderators have taken swift action. :rolleyes:

I honestly never knew that an IQ score could fall into the minus zone............ that was until I met a Rangers fan.

Take it they haven't? The poor souls are probably upset about the rain pissing on their parade today.

[matty_f]

I have to say that I do feel for the various chairmen at this point in time. There is a big question that has to be considered when weighing up sporting integrity, and this is just approaching it from a different angle - one which the chairmen and influential people involved have no choice but to consider.

That question is why should their clubs suffer from Rangers' demise?

Unfortunately, the hyperbole and propaganda from the SPL, with what appear to be skewed projections of the financial impact of having no Rangers in the top tier (let alone the First Division), has detracted from what is something that's worth some discussion and probably a deal of pragmatism when deciding what to do next.

IMHO, the decision to refuse entry into the SPL was the correct one. I also think that Sevco's application for entry to the SFL should be considered on exactly the same basis as any other applicants and not considered favourably or otherwise just because of who they are.

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

I am not wholly adverse to Sevco coming in at First Division level, but being heavily sanctioned in the process. IMHO, those sanctions should be severe enough to ensure that there can be no promotion for Sevco Rangers for at least a season, regardless of their league finish this coming season. For me, there are wider benefits in that approach that are for the greater good.

To liken it to something, I didn't want the Government to use taxpayers' money to bail out the banks. No other businesses were getting that sort of help, so why should some of the (previously) most profitable and biggest companies get it? Well, the answer is that without these big banks, the impact and damage caused would have been catastrophic to the economy and our daily lives. An unpalatable but necessary decision was made to bail the banks out, a decision made for the greater good.

My preference is to see Sevco in the Third Division, if anywhere. However, if they do end up in the First then I think I'm at ease with it enough to understand that while it's not what really should be done, all things being equal, it's something that is being done not for Rangers' benefit, but for the benefit of all the other clubs potentially impacted.

[whiskyhibby]

Can someone tell me why the 'neutral' !! BBC continue to place any Rangers news in the SPL section? That team has been liquidated and no longer exist

[Iggy Pope]

The document released to the SFL had a sporting integrity v finance reference yet a sporting integrity issue has yet to be determined?
Catch up! The sporting integrity issue relates to moves made out-with Hibs but in the league they play.

Making Hibs culpable, how exactly? That was my point. Hibs and 10 other clubs (currently) play in this league. Do you want a ****ing game to watch next season or don't you? Do you want a club to support or don't you? I've caught up fine thanks.

[SJNB Hibby]

No more to be said.:top marks

I'll back that up. I left Scotland for England in 1963, and in 1974 moved to Canada.
In the early 70's I saw a lot of the Drybrugh Cup matches. But from 1974 till 2006 I saw a total of 2 matches
Work gets me back to Glasgow on a regular basis, and I've seen the Hibees half a dozen times. But at home I have 10 Hibs tops, a golf shirt, 5 mugs, 4 scarves, A Hibs and North American Hibs Supporters Club stickers on my car, a Hibs 2007 Cup winners mini-flag on my garage window, every book about hibs you can buy, and Paddy Fenlon on Easter Rd is the wallpaper on my work computer.
Even my office manager knows that when I'm asked to attend head office, I check the footie fixtures before I book my flights

I would give my right arm to see the team more often, but it doesn't make me less supportive of the team because I average one game a year-my wife thinks I'm mad BTW:agree:

[Iggy Pope]

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

Such is business life every day of the week. Businesses who have previously been well run suffer hardship and insolvency due to the inadequacies of others. Unfair, but unavoidable.

[matty_f]

Such is business life every day of the week. Businesses who have previously been well run suffer hardship and insolvency due to the inadequacies of others. Unfair, but unavoidable.

But it would appear avoidable in this case.

[Hibercelona]

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

If clubs want to save their own existence, then they should get out of the funny league now.

There is no use in clubs speaking out against corruption, while continuing to play in a league that is clearly so. Completely pointless.

[grunt]

Apologies if this has been posted before - it is so difficult to keep up!
This guy tends to go on a bit, and I think you can safely skip all the legal stuff, but he makes an interesting point.

Could the liquidators undo the sale to Sevco?

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/sevco-director-admits-rangers-assets-bought-at-undervalue-liquidator-should-take-assets-back/#more-1460

[alexedwards]

Making Hibs culpable, how exactly? That was my point. Hibs and 10 other clubs (currently) play in this league. Do you want a ****ing game to watch next season or don't you? Do you want a club to support or don't you? I've caught up fine thanks.

Not watching a game in a corrupt league. Never mentioned that Hibs were culpable but that it was the League.
No I don't want a ******g game to watch in a ******g corrupt league only an idiot would want that. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies if this has been posted before - it is so difficult to keep up!
This guy tends to go on a bit, and I think you can safely skip all the legal stuff, but he makes an interesting point.

Could the liquidators undo the sale to Sevco?

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/sevco-director-admits-rangers-assets-bought-at-undervalue-liquidator-should-take-assets-back/#more-1460

They could indeed. (See this thread, about 200 pages ago.....:greengrin) If I were liquidator, it would be one of the first things I looked at.

The problem would be proving that the assets (whatever they are) were transferred at less than market value.

[Bishop Hibee]

They could indeed. (See this thread, about 200 pages ago.....:greengrin) If I were liquidator, it would be one of the first things I looked at.

The problem would be proving that the assets (whatever they are) were transferred at less than market value.

According to the Scotslaw blog it would be up to sevco to prove that they were transferred at market value.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to the Scotslaw blog it would be up to sevco to prove that they were transferred at market value.

TBH, I haven't read the whole thing, so thanks for that. I'm surprised, since I would have thought it's up to the complainer to make the case.

Still, that will keep this thread going for a few months yet.:agree:

[Iggy Pope]

Such is business life every day of the week. Businesses who have previously been well run suffer hardship and insolvency due to the inadequacies of others. Unfair, but unavoidable.

Tad patronising and that belongs in the financial section, not the back pages. It is perfectly avoidable.

Businesses fall left right and centre but not a lot of them have thousands of people turn up on a weekly basis to watch that business going about it's godawful business and with that business' name and trademark across their chests. Or tatooed on their arms. Or other places. And with their kids in tow all named after previous employees of that business, all of which follow the family trait of despising that rival family business over the road. And when they've watched that business fail miserably on it's solitary working day of the week they remain desperate to get on to that business' social forum that night to spout crap about that business and how they will be back next week for more of the same business.......

That happening at Barclays?

[Iggy Pope]

Not watching a game in a corrupt league. Never mentioned that Hibs were culpable but that it was the League.
No I don't want a ******g game to watch in a ******g corrupt league only an idiot would want that. :wink:

You've been watching this league how long exactly?

[Iggy Pope]

If clubs want to save their own existence, then they should get out of the funny league now.

There is no use in clubs speaking out against corruption, while continuing to play in a league that is clearly so. Completely pointless.

The use of cliche on this thread is catching up with the Hibs Class / In a heartbeat / country mile stuff we have on the transfer talk threads. While 'Sporting Integrity' gets used to death across the media soundbytes, can you tell me where the word 'corruption' has been used by anyone at Hibs or anywhere else for that matter?

[CropleyWasGod]

Tad patronising and that belongs in the financial section, not the back pages. It is perfectly avoidable.

Businesses fall left right and centre but not a lot of them have thousands of people turn up on a weekly basis to watch that business going about it's godawful business and with that business' name and trademark across their chests. Or tatooed on their arms. Or other places. And with their kids in tow all named after previous employees of that business, all of which follow the family trait of despising that rival family business over the road. And when they've watched that business fail miserably on it's solitary working day of the week they remain desperate to get on to that business' social forum that night to spout crap about that business and how they will be back next week for more of the same business.......

That happening at Barclays?

I wasn't meaning to be patronising, so sorry if you read it that way.

However, I was trying to make the point that, if the clubs you mention fail because of Rangers' recklessness, it's like any other business that fails because of another's recklessness. Unfair, for sure.... but a fact of life.

[Iggy Pope]

I wasn't meaning to be patronising, so sorry if you read it that way.

However, I was trying to make the point that, if the clubs you mention fail because of Rangers' recklessness, it's like any other business that fails because of another's recklessness. Unfair, for sure.... but a fact of life.

Actually, I had quoted another poster who mentioned these clubs.

However, should Hibs (or any other SPL side) collapse because:

a)our own fans took the high ground and walked away following a perceived lack of justice being meted out to that shower
or
b) because much needed financial backing was pulled as a result of this malaise

Then it will be not only avoidable, but tragic.

[Waxy]

Actually, I had quoted another poster who mentioned these clubs.

However, should Hibs (or any other SPL side) collapse because:

a)our own fans took the high ground and walked away following a perceived lack of justice being meted out to that shower
or
b) because much needed financial backing was pulled as a result of this malaise

Then it will be not only avoidable, but tragic.Perhaps the only way out will be clubs resigning from the SPL to form a non corrupt association.
It's the only option i can see right now should sevco go div1.
Although i have a hunch Rangers are finished.

[monktonharp]

Petrie and the club have stuck to the integrity line throughout, they voted No to the Newco.

What are the clubs thoughts on all this? The line 'it's up to other bodies to decide their fate' is clearly nonsense now, if the SPL Board is involved, then Hibs are involved as part of the SPL.

If Hibs are against these 'negotiations' and haven't been part of this, then they better come out and say so pronto. Silence will do us no favours, certainly if the Board think we will just accept this corrupt attempt to try and appear 'all about the integrity' while working franticly behind the scenes to save Sevco.:agree: I have virtually no other comments to make, on this sorry situation; other than, If Hibernian FC continue with their line that it's no business of ours so we say nothing,(which is my view of their silence)they risk losing almost half of the hard core support,as they are failing in their duty to stand up and speak out for what is right, or are they hedging their bets and hope for the best? the best, in the opinion of most scottish fitba fans is newco in div.3. the worst imho for all premier clubs concerned at least, is newco div.1

[Hibercelona]

The use of cliche on this thread is catching up with the Hibs Class / In a heartbeat / country mile stuff we have on the transfer talk threads. While 'Sporting Integrity' gets used to death across the media soundbytes, can you tell me where the word 'corruption' has been used by anyone at Hibs or anywhere else for that matter?

Clubs are obviously not going to openly shout out "corruption", because in a corrupt league, saying what you truly think lands you in trouble. Thats why managers aren't allowed to speak out against corrupt refereeing. You either keep your mouth shut about it, or you get punished for it.

As far as i'm concerned about the whole situation, "Sevco 5088" are a new company club and should start in the highland league like any other new company club would have to. Attempting to manipulate these rules to create "additional options" is blatant cheating/corruption.

And thats my view on it from a "neutral" perspective.

[Hibercelona]

Perhaps the only way out will be clubs resigning from the SPL to form a non corrupt association.
It's the only option i can see right now should sevco go div1.
Although i have a hunch Rangers are finished.

This.

Clubs have options to save themselves. Remaining in this rotten league isn't one of them.

[joe breezy]

Principles are one thing. Turning your back on your club when they are in the doo-doo is another.

Turning my back on corruption maybe a more accurate way of saying it.

The SPL are part of this whole stitch up it seems, Petrie even more than others.

If things go the right way I will take the action of giving Hibs more money than I would have.

If things go the wrong way I also feel I have to take action - otherwise it's empty threats and meaningless posturing.

I'm not buying into a sport that is fixed in favour of one or two teams.

It's not a sport

[ScottB]

Frankly, this is what the Doncaster's, the Regan's and so on have been hoping for.

A few weeks ago, supporters everywhere were united in their demand for integrity, No to Newco we yelled, and the Chairmen were forced to listen.

Yet here we are, those same Chairmen are stitching things up, trying to pass the blame to the innocent clubs in the SFL, and we have supporters turning on those who still demand integrity. This has been their plan all along, they've tossed us a bone, a basically meaningless No vote, then assumed that most would just sit down happy and go back to normal.


The SPL are taking the **** out of us all with this, and until we hear otherwise, our club is as up in our necks in this crap as any of the other 11. Petrie tells us this stage is the SFL's decision alone. But it isn't is it? The SPL and the SFA have concocted a scheme to force them into doing their bidding. Hibs are part of the SPL, so have a say in its actions, and Petrie is high enough up the SFA to know exactly what is going on.

I really want to believe that the club was following its stated belief in integrity at all costs, but actions speak louder than statements on a website. The Board may be hoping that we just ignore all this, but it is time for Petrie to fess up as to what his role has been in all this.

[Hibercelona]

I've been thinking. After seeing a fair bit of talk about fans boycotting every Rangers game if they get into DIV1, then back into the SPL next season...

Instead of fans boycotting the games, what about the clubs simply forfeiting them instead? Lets be honest, Rangers would finish in the top 2 anyway, even if every club did play all their games against them.

Think of the impact it would have on SKY if us 10 "diddy clubs" simply refused to play them.

It wouldn't affect the overall league table if every club (barr celtic) refused to play them. We'd simply hand over 3-0 wins to them and the SKY deal would very quickly become dead in the water.

Seems crazy and drastic, but its just an idea. :wink:

[TrickyNicky]

I've been thinking. After seeing a fair bit of talk about fans boycotting every Rangers game if they get into DIV1, then back into the SPL next season...

Instead of fans boycotting the games, what about the clubs simply forfeiting them instead? Lets be honest, Rangers would finish in the top 2 anyway, even if every club did play all their games against them.

Think of the impact it would have on SKY if us 10 "diddy clubs" simply refused to play them.

It wouldn't affect the overall league table if every club (barr celtic) refused to play them. We'd simply hand over 3-0 wins to them and the SKY deal would very quickly become dead in the water.

Seems crazy and drastic, but its just an idea. :wink:

I'm sure that part of the " New Sky Deal " will be the clause that no team can forfeit without being penalized, fined and forced to remunerate, Sky, Rangers and the SPL.

I truly think we have all been " Had " here and deep down, we know it.

Football will go on, with or without the loss off fans because like it or not, it's bigger than us.
Many will keep going because they can't do without it, they love their team too much, new fans will come along, old fans will eventually come back - not all of course but football-life goes on and who really wants to hurt their own team.

The beast that is football knows we need it too much and we need our own team more, supporters and fans will never leave Hibs or the other Non OF teams for that matter - they will always look at the results, talk about them, complain about the SPL, rue the day the Hun's were not obliterated off the face of the earth, they know that above all we truly love our team more than they could ever love anything.

They are fabulous nobodies who will die thinking they did the right thing for football but we know they are pathetic, gutless, liars and it still doesn't matter because we will always love our team- they are like family, we accept it and move on with our lives, we will support our team even more, that's why we want such retribution just now, we feel betrayed, cheated and ridiculed but who cares fellow Hibs fans, some, if not many of us have had all of that in our lives before and from people a lot closer to us than Petrie, Doncaster or Regan, we move on and we get stuck in.

" @#$% them , we are The Hi-Beez and we are good people and we all made the commitment to love our team until the day we die, whether we like it or not.

[Onion]

Frankly, this is what the Doncaster's, the Regan's and so on have been hoping for.

A few weeks ago, supporters everywhere were united in their demand for integrity, No to Newco we yelled, and the Chairmen were forced to listen.

Yet here we are, those same Chairmen are stitching things up, trying to pass the blame to the innocent clubs in the SFL, and we have supporters turning on those who still demand integrity. This has been their plan all along, they've tossed us a bone, a basically meaningless No vote, then assumed that most would just sit down happy and go back to normal.


The SPL are taking the **** out of us all with this, and until we hear otherwise, our club is as up in our necks in this crap as any of the other 11. Petrie tells us this stage is the SFL's decision alone. But it isn't is it? The SPL and the SFA have concocted a scheme to force them into doing their bidding. Hibs are part of the SPL, so have a say in its actions, and Petrie is high enough up the SFA to know exactly what is going on.

I really want to believe that the club was following its stated belief in integrity at all costs, but actions speak louder than statements on a website. The Board may be hoping that we just ignore all this, but it is time for Petrie to fess up as to what his role has been in all this.

:agree: absolutely right. This was always going to be their tactic until they got the result THEY wanted.

If Newco get away with relegation for 1 season, come out the other side debt free and in better financial health than any other club, it will be the business model for all other SPL clubs to follow. Why should any club continue to struggle servicing debts of £10-£15m when they can just shut up shop, take a relegation and start again debt free - their history , grounds and other assets intact. It's absolutely disgusting, and I'm still astonished that the media can't see it that way.

Oh, and for fun, you can run double contracts and take the SFA to court and still get them to break their own rules to help you out. Jees.

[BSEJVT]

Just back from 2 weeks holiday and trying to catch up on all this stuff.

Loads of fantasy island stuff on this thread IMO

Rangers wont disappear regardless of whether they have a league to play in or what else.

Hibs wouldnt have either if Mercer had had his way.

We would have had to many guys who wouldnt let the club die under any circumstances, they have more.

Wishing it or wanting it so wont make it happen and IMO its time to get past that.

Its like wishing that your mates hadnt told you there was no Santa as Christmas was better when you still believed.

Next fallacy is that they woudnt get elected to SFL in preference to anyone else.

IMO there is not a team in the land who would vote against them getting back in at some level.

It would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas, loathe them or not (and I do) they bring revenue to the game, bucketloads of it and the game cannot replace that revenue from electing the likes of Gala or Spartan's however noble their causes may be.

Self interest usually wins.

Next the criticising of our board, IMO they have played a blinder, they have said what they had to and not gone beyond that as doing so would IMO be folly.

The situation has changed almost daily and once you start commenting you look like an arse as you have to continuously backtrack and contradict yourself.

Keep quiet say nothing and make your decisions when you have to would be my approach.

What should happen?

To be honest I dont know, IMO though:

They shouldnt be in the SPL

They should start in League 3

They should carry over some financial penalty / restrictions

However anyone who thinks that they wont claim "their history"whether they have legal right to or not and wont be back in the SPL and dominating it behind Celtic in 4 years is deluding themselves.

Even living within their means they have so much more financial clout than us they couldnt fail to even run by an imbecile.

For all Hearts are ran by a madman like Romanov money talks and has done over his tenure there.

Our best hope is to acquire some monentum over the intervening years and try and close the gap.

Sporting integrity doesnt exist in any major football league in the world.

The teams with the best supports have the most money, buy the best players and win the most, it has always been and always will and is I am afraid a fact of life.

Using that reality as an excuse for walking away from Hibs now is an easy out and whilst people taking that decision may consider themselves principled, I think it is a convenient excuse for walking away easily seen through by others.

BTW I wouldnt criticise anyone for just simply not going any longer, I have, but to hold youself out as having done so on a point of principle is just nuts IMO as football hasnt been based on sporting integrity at any level since it started, from kids in the park to Queens Park.

Kids pick the best players for their side if they can so they win

Hutchie tap kids from other clubs so they win

Even in the maximum wage days there were players getting brown envelopes / paid for other "non football" things.

Celtic tapped Hibs players to leave to set them up etc etc

It goes on and always has and will do

Sad as this may be, IMO its time to wake up and smell the coffee and start applying a bit of commercial judgement to the situation and clubs handling of it and to try as far as possible to shape the debate rather than not take part in it.

Having said that I am astounded by the comments of Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir and IMO they have to go after this sorry mess has been resolved, they need to see it through though as no-one in their right mind would pick up their poisoned chalice at this stage.

There needs to be at least an aura of impartiality surrounding the governing bodies and these guys whilst no doubt heeding their masters voices have blown that out the water with their public pronouncements.

Tin hat firmly on!

[Lungo--Drom]

I thought that Ipox and Slurry Park were valued at something like £110m, or was that a bad dream? If that was indeed what I read then surely Green has got a lot explaining to do?


According to the Scotslaw blog it would be up to sevco to prove that they were transferred at market value.

[Kaiser1962]

But it would appear avoidable in this case.

It would appear totally avoidable IMO Matty and down soley to the arrogance of a small group of individuals and a club who felt, as their friends in then press are arguing, they were too big to fail and the world cant survive without them. They werent and we can.

[Lucius Apuleius]

If they go into div 3 then I can see it without sanctions. If they go into the first with sanctions including the transfer embargo then I dont see them winning the first in their first season. I had huns bewailing the embargo at me last night. Bewailing the fact that they only have six players. Politely pointed out that as anew company they have to recruit new staff. What level of expertise that staff has will be determined by the wages they can pay. Not been to a lower division game in years so not a clue what the admission charges are but I really do not see how sevco can afford a decent wage for anyone. Bear in mind they will be playing against part time teams. How we punish them for past crimes as a newco I do do not know. I dont even think it is possible. If they are in div 1 then we have kinda said they are really rangers and we may have options to punish them for the ebts etc. It is an absolute minefield, in my opinion, brought about by numpties in the SFA who did not act when they hould have and now do not hqave the cojones to do anything about it. The only vote the SFL should have is the admittance of the newco. Into div 3 should be automatic. That however could in my mind be the saving of der hun if you follow my somewhat convoluted logic?

[Saorsa]

Frankly, this is what the Doncaster's, the Regan's and so on have been hoping for.

A few weeks ago, supporters everywhere were united in their demand for integrity, No to Newco we yelled, and the Chairmen were forced to listen.

Yet here we are, those same Chairmen are stitching things up, trying to pass the blame to the innocent clubs in the SFL, and we have supporters turning on those who still demand integrity. This has been their plan all along, they've tossed us a bone, a basically meaningless No vote, then assumed that most would just sit down happy and go back to normal.
The SPL are taking the **** out of us all with this, and until we hear otherwise, our club is as up in our necks in this crap as any of the other 11. Petrie tells us this stage is the SFL's decision alone. But it isn't is it? The SPL and the SFA have concocted a scheme to force them into doing their bidding. Hibs are part of the SPL, so have a say in its actions, and Petrie is high enough up the SFA to know exactly what is going on.

I really want to believe that the club was following its stated belief in integrity at all costs, but actions speak louder than statements on a website. The Board may be hoping that we just ignore all this, but it is time for Petrie to fess up as to what his role has been in all this.:top marks


They haven't come out against it so you must assume they are in favour of what is happening. "Sporting integrity is beyond purchase" :rolleyes: It's no beyond blackmail, bullying and threats though it would appear. :bitchy:

[joe breezy]

:top marks


They haven't come out against it so you must assume they are in favour of what is happening. "Sporting integrity is beyond purchase" :rolleyes: It's no beyond blackmail, bullying and threats though it would appear. :bitchy:

They must think we button up the back with the bull**** they've fed us and lack of clarity since giving the documents and letters that are in the public domain.

They can't keep their sordid secrets anymore but they carry on regardless.

[Saorsa]

They must think we button up the back with the bull**** they've fed us and lack of clarity since giving the documents and letters that are in the public domain.

They can't keep their sordid secrets anymore but they carry on regardless.They're either involved in it or they approve of it. Their continued silence as good as makes them guilty IMO :agree:

[MrSmith]

They could indeed. (See this thread, about 200 pages ago.....:greengrin) If I were liquidator, it would be one of the first things I looked at.

The problem would be proving that the assets (whatever they are) were transferred at less than market value.

It would appear to me, as a complete naive type, that HMRC have given all parties enough rope to hang themselves (bad analogy I know). However, they have waited and waited for what would seem like an age until all parties where outed, all games where being played and individuals came into the open. This for me could see HMRC and the Police, go for the jugular!

[The Green Goblin]

Just back from 2 weeks holiday and trying to catch up on all this stuff.

Loads of fantasy island stuff on this thread IMO

Rangers wont disappear regardless of whether they have a league to play in or what else.

Hibs wouldnt have either if Mercer had had his way.

We would have had to many guys who wouldnt let the club die under any circumstances, they have more.

Wishing it or wanting it so wont make it happen and IMO its time to get past that.

Its like wishing that your mates hadnt told you there was no Santa as Christmas was better when you still believed.

Next fallacy is that they woudnt get elected to SFL in preference to anyone else.

IMO there is not a team in the land who would vote against them getting back in at some level.

It would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas, loathe them or not (and I do) they bring revenue to the game, bucketloads of it and the game cannot replace that revenue from electing the likes of Gala or Spartan's however noble their causes may be.

Self interest usually wins.

Next the criticising of our board, IMO they have played a blinder, they have said what they had to and not gone beyond that as doing so would IMO be folly.

The situation has changed almost daily and once you start commenting you look like an arse as you have to continuously backtrack and contradict yourself.

Keep quiet say nothing and make your decisions when you have to would be my approach.

What should happen?

To be honest I dont know, IMO though:

They shouldnt be in the SPL

They should start in League 3

They should carry over some financial penalty / restrictions

However anyone who thinks that they wont claim "their history"whether they have legal right to or not and wont be back in the SPL and dominating it behind Celtic in 4 years is deluding themselves.

Even living within their means they have so much more financial clout than us they couldnt fail to even run by an imbecile.

For all Hearts are ran by a madman like Romanov money talks and has done over his tenure there.

Our best hope is to acquire some monentum over the intervening years and try and close the gap.

Sporting integrity doesnt exist in any major football league in the world.

The teams with the best supports have the most money, buy the best players and win the most, it has always been and always will and is I am afraid a fact of life.

Using that reality as an excuse for walking away from Hibs now is an easy out and whilst people taking that decision may consider themselves principled, I think it is a convenient excuse for walking away easily seen through by others.

BTW I wouldnt criticise anyone for just simply not going any longer, I have, but to hold youself out as having done so on a point of principle is just nuts IMO as football hasnt been based on sporting integrity at any level since it started, from kids in the park to Queens Park.

Kids pick the best players for their side if they can so they win

Hutchie tap kids from other clubs so they win

Even in the maximum wage days there were players getting brown envelopes / paid for other "non football" things.

Celtic tapped Hibs players to leave to set them up etc etc

It goes on and always has and will do

Sad as this may be, IMO its time to wake up and smell the coffee and start applying a bit of commercial judgement to the situation and clubs handling of it and to try as far as possible to shape the debate rather than not take part in it.

Having said that I am astounded by the comments of Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir and IMO they have to go after this sorry mess has been resolved, they need to see it through though as no-one in their right mind would pick up their poisoned chalice at this stage.

There needs to be at least an aura of impartiality surrounding the governing bodies and these guys whilst no doubt heeding their masters voices have blown that out the water with their public pronouncements.

Tin hat firmly on!

I hope you dont need the tin hat! ;-) its a good, thought-provoking post. I just take issue with the "applying commercial judgement" comment. Surely they should just be "applying the rules"?

Cheers

[StevieC]

If they go into div 3 then I can see it without sanctions. If they go into the first with sanctions including the transfer embargo then I dont see them winning the first in their first season.

Do you think they will expand the SPL if they think the Huns will be back in within a season?
Pretty unlikely if you ask me. More chance of it happening if they are away for 3 seasons.

[BSEJVT]

I hope you dont need the tin hat! ;-) its a good, thought-provoking post. I just take issue with the "applying commercial judgement" comment. Surely they should just be "applying the rules"?

Cheers

Sorry that bit of my post isnt clear

The authorities need to apply the rules as they are

But fans need to apply some commercial judgement as to why clubs are acting the way they are, because the club surely are!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Agree that these changes would be a good start. However, we don't need to have the Huns parachuted into SFL1 to get them. If they do go straight into SFL1 then by this time next year the Huns will be back in the SPL stronger and their fans will be more vile than ever because of what has happened. However, I will not have stuck around to watch.

You are right, we dont need the newco in Div1 to make changes happen.

My point was that out of this fiasco some things the fans wanted all along now look possible. To cancel out any benefits of these things happening by stopping going if the newco end up in division 1 would be a great pity. Every post I have made on here has been in understanding of why the clubs would accept having them there. Not because thats what I want.

One thing is for sure ... if its Div3 all it means is that they will be back in three years, not one and as you say, just as bad as ever. I would not like to see any club go to the wall just so that we dont have to look at their ugly mugs for a couple of extra years.

In the long run they will be back .. as stupid, bigoted and arrogant as ever. They will have served their punishment as they see it. I say that because to them it will still be rangers, not a newco, and we all know that. The worry being that in order to dish out that punishment the fans of some clubs in this country may not have a club left to support while the club responsible for that happening continue on their 'not so merry' way. Whos the winner in that ?

Some folk in the world think its ok to kill 5 innocent men in order to ensure you get the guilty one .... not for me I'm afraid.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am also of the opinion that it would be hugely unfair for any club who has had no involvement in Rangers' situation to be put in the situation where their own existence is put at risk. Where is the sporting integrity in Motherwell, St Mirren or even Hibs collapsing because of Rangers' recklessness?

:aok: Amen to this.

Well thats a business plan that clearly does not work. For it to work, we have to rely on Rangers being allowed to cheat their way to success.

Thats the kind of sporting integrity i guess i'm against, and many others too?

[Caversham Green]

Sporting integrity doesnt exist in any major football league in the world.

The teams with the best supports have the most money, buy the best players and win the most, it has always been and always will and is I am afraid a fact of life.

Using that reality as an excuse for walking away from Hibs now is an easy out and whilst people taking that decision may consider themselves principled, I think it is a convenient excuse for walking away easily seen through by others.

BTW I wouldnt criticise anyone for just simply not going any longer, I have, but to hold youself out as having done so on a point of principle is just nuts IMO as football hasnt been based on sporting integrity at any level since it started, from kids in the park to Queens Park.

Kids pick the best players for their side if they can so they win

Hutchie tap kids from other clubs so they win

Even in the maximum wage days there were players getting brown envelopes / paid for other "non football" things.

Celtic tapped Hibs players to leave to set them up etc etc

It goes on and always has and will do



To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

[blackpoolhibs]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

Well said CG, sums the whole thing up for me. :top marks

[Hamish]

FIFA have introduced goal line technology apart from in Scotland due to the fact the SFA and SPL keep moving the goalposts

[Baba O'riley]

FIFA have introduced goal line technology apart from in Scotland due to the fact the SFA and SPL keep moving the goalposts


:top marks

[Saorsa]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.:top marks and http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies 2/Hammering_in.gif

[PatHead]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

Excellent post but would add that it is also the Directors of the SPL clubs who must be held accountable as well.

[Onion]

FIFA have introduced goal line technology apart from in Scotland due to the fact the SFA and SPL keep moving the goalposts

:applause:

[Seveno]

TBH, I haven't read the whole thing, so thanks for that. I'm surprised, since I would have thought it's up to the complainer to make the case.

Still, that will keep this thread going for a few months yet.:agree:

You haven't read the whole thing ?! What sort of part-timer are you ?

[Hainan Hibs]

Craig Burley's view

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Oooft:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Craig Burley's view

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Oooft:greengrin

"Muppets". That'll get them on your side, Craig. :rolleyes:

[Seveno]

Craig Burley's view

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Oooft:greengrin

I so hope that every SFL Chairman reads this before the vote next week. It should ensure that Sevco are consigned to SFL3. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I so hope that every SFL Chairman reads this before the vote next year. It should ensure that Sevco are consigned to SFL3. :greengrin

Jeez... is it going to be postponed that long?? :greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

"Muppets". That'll get them on your side, Craig. :rolleyes:

This is surely a rehashed Jim Traynor article, right?

[rcarter1]

Craig Burley's view

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Oooft:greengrin

I presume that Craig is a Celtic fan or something. Another nail in the coffin. If this article is a genuine representation of his feelings, my word..

[Seveno]

Jeez... is it going to be postponed that long?? :greengrin

Fixed. Ya cheeky bazza.

[grunt]

This chap is an interesting blogger, too.

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/an-open-letter-to-sfl-chairmen/


An open letter to SFL chairmen Posted on July 08, 2012 by Rev. Stuart Campbell

Dear Chairman,You are, it appears, being placed under almost intolerable pressure to do Scottish football’s dirty work for it. You’ve been handed the responsibility for dealing with a farcical mess of a situation despite having had no part in creating it. You’ve been threatened, cajoled and bullied into doing what the SFA and SPL didn’t have the guts to do for themselves. Over recent days you’ve been fed a great deal of misinformation, (http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/) scaremongering (http://wingsland.podgamer.com/straightening-the-record/) and outright abuse (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/) designed to intimidate you into going along with a course of action that undermines every principle of sporting integrity.I understand, however, that as chairman your job is to take hard-headed business decisions in your club’s interests, rather than to uphold lofty ideals even where doing so would lead your club into bankruptcy.

So I hope you’ll consider the following facts before you decide how to vote at the SFL’s Special General Meeting on July 13.

1. If you’re the chairman of an SFL Division 2 or SFL Division 3 club, allowing Sevco Scotland to enter the League at Division 1 level will without a doubt cost your club tens of thousands of pounds. The pitiful £1m “bribe” the League is being offered by the SPL as a supposed sweetener for the deal will see your club receive somewhere in the region of £30,000. A single season of Sevco FC participating in your division, however, even if brought just 2000 travelling supporters with it rather than the usual 5000, would generate at least twice as much money for your club in gate receipts and other revenue.

2. That calculation also omits other possible income that might accrue to your club, such as the significant possibility of increased interest in your division from broadcast media. It would be greatly surprising if there was no interest from TV and radio companies in covering the (possible) progress of the former Rangers through the lower leagues, and that interest would be yours to exploit, rather than being signed away for a pittance in advance.

3. If, however, you represent an SFL1 club, it’s difficult to see why you would wish to accept a deal which signs away your TV rights for £1m in return for admitting Sevco Scotland to your division. It seems a miserly sum if, as you’ve been told, “Rangers” represent almost 50% of the value of Scottish football to TV companies, which currently stands at around £16m a season.If that’s true, and the teams outwith the former “Old Firm” are merely makeweights as far as TV audiences are concerned, it’s hard to understand why an SPL containing (Celtic +11 others) would be worth 15 times as much as an SFL1 comprising (“Rangers” +9 others). Someone’s trying to take you for a mug.

4. Enabling the participation of Sevco FC in SFL1 opens the way to a whole raft of possible legal challenges from other clubs, such as those denied promotion by the “shuffling up” process that would normally result from an extra SFL1 club being invited to join the SPL. There could also be lawsuits from clubs which have previously gone into administration and been compelled to re-enter the game through Division 3, such as Livingston FC.Any such challenges could result in massive disruption and/or delay to the league season, with obvious catastrophic financial consequences. (Which would be before factoring in any possible action taken by UEFA and FIFA in response to the involvement of civil law courts.)

5. The SFA’s Appellate Tribunal is yet to reconvene with regard to the matter of the former Rangers FC being found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute. The Tribunal could very well impose a suspension or expulsion on Sevco FC (pending the SFA deciding whether or not the new club is in fact a continuation of the old one), which would at very short notice again cast the SFL into chaos.

6. Sevco Scotland does not currently possess sufficient playing staff to field a full team plus substitutes’ bench, and is at present subject to a transfer embargo which severely inhibits the expansion of that squad. Its financial circumstances are also shrouded in uncertainty, particularly in the light of the apparent boycott by its own supporters of the current board of directors, with newspapers reporting season-ticket sales to date of just 250, less than 1% of the normal figure.(With the vast majority of those supporters having voiced their desire for Sevco FC to start in Division 3 rather than Division 1, it is of course far from certain how many would turn up to support the new club in the latter instance.)It is well within the bounds of possibility that even if admitted to the league and escaping suspension, Sevco FC will be unable to fulfil a complete fixture list, again casting whichever division it inhabits into chaos and causing a very large revenue shortfall within that division due to many unplayed matches.

7. You’ve been warned menacingly of non-payment of the “settlement agreement” from the SPL should you not accept Sevco Scotland into Division 1. As an outsider I’m not party to the exact details of the contract in question, but presumably you are, and unless it contains a specific clause which voids the settlement clause in the event of Rangers or Celtic no longer being in the top division there are no legal grounds for the SPL to withhold the payment. Any court case you chose to bring against the SPL would be short and successful.

8. The SPL clubs voted against the admission of Sevco Scotland because their supporters threatened to boycott the league en masse were it to be agreed. From what’s been released to the press so far by various fan groups and club boards, supporters of SFL clubs feel barely any less strongly about the subject. I hope it isn’t presumptuous to assume that any substantial abandonment of your club by its fans would be seriously damaging to its economic viability.(Conversely, there are already signs that a principled stance might pay significant rewards in terms of encouraging increased attendance, over and above any direct short-term gains your club might gain from the presence of Sevco FC in its division for any period of time.)

In conclusion, then, even before any consideration of your undoubted sense of sporting integrity, I humbly and respectfully ask you to bear in mind the full financial picture when making your decision, rather than only the apocalyptic single-sided version being presented to you by the SFA and SPL. In the personal opinion of this observer, however, the harsh economic reality of the situation appears to be that admitting Sevco Scotland to the SFL is a risk the League and its members simply can’t afford to take.

Yours in sport,
Rev. S. Campbell
In the name of the customers of Scottish football.

[Cabbage East]

Burley's article. Unbelievable.

Craig Burley column: SFL minnows MUST vote Rangers newco into First Division

HAS it really come to this? The future of Scottish football placed in the hands of a few nonentities from the lower divisions.

Muppets in charge of clubs that draw embarrassing crowds of 200 people suddenly standing as judge and jury over a decision that could cost the country millions of pounds in lost revenue.

Chairmen of part-time teams who are nothing more than afterthoughts in the psyche of our national obsession, yet suddenly they have been handed the most important decision in the history of Scottish football.

Does the SFL do the sensible thing and accept the Rangers newco into the First Division or cut off their nose to spite everyone else’s face by condemning them to starting again from the Third Division?

That they even have to think twice about this decision chills me to the core because it’s a clear sign that the knuckle-draggers – always the ones who make the most noise – have succeeded in making their voice heard.

And I’m not just talking about supporters, there are plenty of backward idiots in board rooms too and their petty witch hunt dressed up as “sporting integrity” could cost us all.

What price your integrity if there’s no sport left after you’ve slaughtered its biggest cash cow? Those opposing Rangers being parachuted into the First Division cannot see the wood for the trees.

I’ve heard comments from clubs like Cowdenbeath, Peterhead insisting they must start from scratch in the Third – who are these people and how are they qualified to make a decision that will affect clubs 10 times their size?

Let’s be honest here, if their clubs were to go missing nobody would bat an eyelid but if they abuse their newfound power to banish Rangers then the whole game is gone. It is THAT serious because without the revenue they generate through TV deals and travelling supporters, many other clubs will shut.

I know SFA chief executive Stewart Regan was criticised for warning that Scottish football faces a slow painful death if the Ibrox club are tossed to the bottom, but I agree. There is no point telling people everything’s hunky dory when it is clearly not.

People must wake up to Regan’s alarming message before it’s too late. Most of all the SPL because the time is now to take decisive action. You may have read Raith Rovers’ vice chairman Turnbull Hutton accusing the SPL of bullying and railroading the lower league clubs to vote Rangers into the First.

There’s long been veiled threats to set up a breakaway SPL 2, including Rangers, if the top flight don’t get what they want, leaving those who defy them well and truly out in the cold.

Well my feeling is why rely on a veiled threat when you can turn it into a concrete promise that can be used as a foundation to rebuild our game on a more stable platform?

Just do it, guys.

This is the time where SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster must stand strong and make the big decisions and grab the power back for the big clubs who know how to handle it.

Start the breakaway now, give us a fresh product of two top divisions with promotion and relegation play-offs and sell the package to Sky and ESPN as a fresh exciting new dawn for our game.

TV will buy into it, fans will be re-energised and hopefully start clicking through the turnstiles again.

Hey, maybe even the punters who blackmailed their clubs to vote Rangers out of the SPL in the first place might actually start attending games – because I don’t believe for a second that they were all loyal season ticket holders.

You just need to look at Dunfermline closing a stand last season and matches at Pittodrie resembling a closed-doors friendly any time the Old Firm weren’t visiting as evidence that these fans who protested so loudly must now put their money where mouths are.

So what of the rest you may ask. What about the clubs left behind by the new set-up?

No doubt some of them will fold while others continue plodding along as they are just now – part-time community clubs with very little relevance beyond the borders of their town. It might sound brutal but there are too many teams in our senior game who are going nowhere.

So better to trim the dead wood than give them the power to kill off one of the two clubs that matters most. In short, it’s better them than Rangers when it comes down to a stark choice of who should go.

I can almost hear the outraged screams from Forfar to Annan already but hard nosed as it sounds the alternative, which is football Armageddon, is too much for the rest of us to bear.

Maybe the Neanderthals who are only interested in revenge and petty points scoring after decades of Old Firm dominance will stop and think about the consequences before they call for more punishment.

The time has come to end this sorry episode and start fresh with a positive new beginning for all of Scottish football.

We can’t stand by and allow small clubs with their ridiculous tiny supports to gather on Friday the 13th and chase millions of pounds out of our game.

The time for action has come and Doncaster and his SPL member clubs cannot afford to hesitate a moment longer.

● I chuckled as those bailing out of Rangers talked about their heartbreak at leaving the club they loved.

I don’t have a problem with what the three Stevens – Whittaker, Davis and Naismith – have done, I’d be gone too.

But don’t play us for fools with the badge-kissing bull**** and the crocodile tears.

The same for players trying to court fans by declaring it’s their lifelong dream to play for whoever they join.

I never tried to fool anyone like that. The cold facts are that players will sign anywhere if it’s in the right league for the right money.

● How can we take FIFA seriously when their latest world rankings throw up the ridiculous notion that England are the fourth best team on the planet?

The same England who were battered by sixth-placed Italy and outplayed by 14th-ranked France at the Euros.

Then you cast your eye down the list and see Brazil outside the top 10 trailing behind Denmark. It does nothing to enhance Sepp Blatter (left) and Co’s reputation as unfit for purpose.

[pacorosssco]

"Muppets". That'll get them on your side, Craig. :rolleyes:

im starting to think craig burley is an internet troll as anything he said isnt thought out and is just looking for a reaction. signed to dundee on wages he must have known they couldnt afford. as big a part of the problem as any. total f in trumpet

[Kaiser1962]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

Agree with all that CG but I would add that this is where football has been heading for years now. Cheating is more or less acceptable in football and is carried out by the participants in the full knowledge that the rewards, if you get away with it, are enormous whereas the penalties, if caught, are wholly insignificant. If its Thierry Henry deliberately handballing in a world cup qualifier or Suso Santana diving at Hampden, they get away with it, and repeatedly at that, and when it's subsequently shown that this is so they shrug their shoulders and move on. McGregor at ER or Lafferty at Ipox are even more high profile examples of deception. Christ football even has a category for this play acting, they call it "simulation". Players regulary "steal" yards at a throw in or a free kick if you contrast and compare what would happen to a golfer if he tried to move his ball even a few inches, then you see the problem.

The Rangers situation is, to me at least, an extension of this mindset although now that it has spilled over outwith the boundaries normally associated with football, there may be some repercussions to their financial behaviour at least. UEFA and FIFA are not, we are told, amused in the slightest and the time may be approaching when they find a reason to be involved, God knows there are plenty of reasons why they should already be.

[Kaiser1962]

"Muppets". That'll get them on your side, Craig. :rolleyes:

Does he miss the point that Rangers have went bust owing north of £130 million so I wonder if letting Rangers die will actually cost the country less than keeping them alive?

[malcolm]

The hopefully likely outcome is application to div 3 but that should be followed after next season by league(s) reconstruction and governing body rationalisation. Leagues should be on a pyramid basis but regardless of how far we go towards a fit for purpose new structure, I can see a SPL style entry criteria applying to the top 2 divisions for its inauguration season at least. This would mean that only so many clubs will meet that criteria which would enable the new hun club to then go from div 3 to the second tier.

Fair enough IF the criteria include sanctionable commitment to squashing bigotry etc and anything that smells of bigotry. Also, to limit the greed and power of the onanistic clubs to the west, be accompanied by sensible voting rules and shared gates. They need to remember to reflect that playing with yourself is never as satisfying as playing someone else. :greengrin

[Crazyhorse]

Craig Burley's view

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Oooft:greengrin

Yeah Craig Burley's 'view' as mediated through Jim Traynor's cliche ridden pale imitation of newspaper comment.

I do sometimes wonder though if this sort of drivel isn't just a big pi** take. I don't read that 'newspaper' (just the links on here - very occasionally) so don't know if that sort of piece, with it's poor writing style, petty attacks, half-witted logic and shambolic argumentation is the house style so to speak.

[Hibercelona]

I reckon Craig Burley is playing devils advocate to be honest. :stirrer:

The mans an erse, but theres no way he'll want Rangers back in the SPL.

[Caversham Green]

"Muppets". That'll get them on your side, Craig. :rolleyes:

:agree: Muppets.

Strange looking creatures that speak with someone else's voice and have someone else's hand up their arse.

Sounds more like Burley himself than any SFL chairman I'm aware of.

[Caversham Green]

Agree with all that CG but I would add that this is where football has been heading for years now. Cheating is more or less acceptable in football and is carried out by the participants in the full knowledge that the rewards, if you get away with it, are enormous whereas the penalties, if caught, are wholly insignificant. If its Thierry Henry deliberately handballing in a world cup qualifier or Suso Santana diving at Hampden, they get away with it, and repeatedly at that, and when it's subsequently shown that this is so they shrug their shoulders and move on. McGregor at ER or Lafferty at Ipox are even more high profile examples of deception. Christ football even has a category for this play acting, they call it "simulation". Players regulary "steal" yards at a throw in or a free kick if you contrast and compare what would happen to a golfer if he tried to move his ball even a few inches, then you see the problem.

The Rangers situation is, to me at least, an extension of this mindset although now that it has spilled over outwith the boundaries normally associated with football, there may be some repercussions to their financial behaviour at least. UEFA and FIFA are not, we are told, amused in the slightest and the time may be approaching when they find a reason to be involved, God knows there are plenty of reasons why they should already be.

I think it's about drawing lines, and everyone will have their own idea about where those lines are. The incidents you cite were the actions of individuals gaining an advantage in the process of trying to win a game - it's not perfect and the authorities were undoubtedly lax in their reactions, but some you win some you lose. The fact that simulation is or should be punished shows that they are at least making some attempt to uphold sporting integrity.

In this case we are not seeing the authorities being lax or turning a blind eye, they are actually indulging in the cheating themselves. I agree that it's an extension of the mindset, but it not only crosses my line, it erases it completely.

[ScottB]

Dunno why anyone would be surprised at the arrogance of Burley's 'piece.'

Its not even journalism. It's sensationalist tripe designed to do 2 things: get the Gers fans salivating, and get the rest of furiously clicking links and leaving comments.

The result? The only thing the Daily Ranger is interested in: money. Every time someone clicks that link, leaves a comment etc they make money. I'm sure Burley probably does believe what he wrote, but that's not really relevant. Their opinion spouters are all this reactionary just so they make money out of it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I wish the papers would explain how us chucking the Gers out is any different from the situation we'd have been in if they had walked out.

Armageddon confused.

Fozzy Bear (non Teddy)

[NAE NOOKIE]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

But Zombie Huns are not rangers. So what are they being punished for exactly? Your argument could be used to say that Ben Johnson's son shouldnt be allowed to compete in the Olympics because his dad was a cheat.

This argument is about whether it is advisable or desirable to admit a new club into the SFL at a higher level than normal. In that situation the clubs only concern should be how will their final decision affect their member clubs. It is not the job of the SFL or anybody else for that matter to punish Zombie Huns.

We cant have it both ways .... Either this club is Rangers, with all of the baggage that goes with that. Or it is not Rangers, in which case my previous comments are valid.

[EuanH78]

Burley's article. Unbelievable.

Craig Burley column: SFL minnows MUST vote Rangers newco into First Division

HAS it really come to this? The future of Scottish football placed in the hands of a few nonentities from the lower divisions.

Muppets in charge of clubs that draw embarrassing crowds of 200 people suddenly standing as judge and jury over a decision that could cost the country millions of pounds in lost revenue.

Chairmen of part-time teams who are nothing more than afterthoughts in the psyche of our national obsession, yet suddenly they have been handed the most important decision in the history of Scottish football.

Does the SFL do the sensible thing and accept the Rangers newco into the First Division or cut off their nose to spite everyone else’s face by condemning them to starting again from the Third Division?

That they even have to think twice about this decision chills me to the core because it’s a clear sign that the knuckle-draggers – always the ones who make the most noise – have succeeded in making their voice heard.

And I’m not just talking about supporters, there are plenty of backward idiots in board rooms too and their petty witch hunt dressed up as “sporting integrity” could cost us all.

What price your integrity if there’s no sport left after you’ve slaughtered its biggest cash cow? Those opposing Rangers being parachuted into the First Division cannot see the wood for the trees.

I’ve heard comments from clubs like Cowdenbeath, Peterhead insisting they must start from scratch in the Third – who are these people and how are they qualified to make a decision that will affect clubs 10 times their size?

Let’s be honest here, if their clubs were to go missing nobody would bat an eyelid but if they abuse their newfound power to banish Rangers then the whole game is gone. It is THAT serious because without the revenue they generate through TV deals and travelling supporters, many other clubs will shut.

I know SFA chief executive Stewart Regan was criticised for warning that Scottish football faces a slow painful death if the Ibrox club are tossed to the bottom, but I agree. There is no point telling people everything’s hunky dory when it is clearly not.

People must wake up to Regan’s alarming message before it’s too late. Most of all the SPL because the time is now to take decisive action. You may have read Raith Rovers’ vice chairman Turnbull Hutton accusing the SPL of bullying and railroading the lower league clubs to vote Rangers into the First.

There’s long been veiled threats to set up a breakaway SPL 2, including Rangers, if the top flight don’t get what they want, leaving those who defy them well and truly out in the cold.

Well my feeling is why rely on a veiled threat when you can turn it into a concrete promise that can be used as a foundation to rebuild our game on a more stable platform?

Just do it, guys.

This is the time where SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster must stand strong and make the big decisions and grab the power back for the big clubs who know how to handle it.

Start the breakaway now, give us a fresh product of two top divisions with promotion and relegation play-offs and sell the package to Sky and ESPN as a fresh exciting new dawn for our game.

TV will buy into it, fans will be re-energised and hopefully start clicking through the turnstiles again.

Hey, maybe even the punters who blackmailed their clubs to vote Rangers out of the SPL in the first place might actually start attending games – because I don’t believe for a second that they were all loyal season ticket holders.

You just need to look at Dunfermline closing a stand last season and matches at Pittodrie resembling a closed-doors friendly any time the Old Firm weren’t visiting as evidence that these fans who protested so loudly must now put their money where mouths are.

So what of the rest you may ask. What about the clubs left behind by the new set-up?

No doubt some of them will fold while others continue plodding along as they are just now – part-time community clubs with very little relevance beyond the borders of their town. It might sound brutal but there are too many teams in our senior game who are going nowhere.

So better to trim the dead wood than give them the power to kill off one of the two clubs that matters most. In short, it’s better them than Rangers when it comes down to a stark choice of who should go.

I can almost hear the outraged screams from Forfar to Annan already but hard nosed as it sounds the alternative, which is football Armageddon, is too much for the rest of us to bear.

Maybe the Neanderthals who are only interested in revenge and petty points scoring after decades of Old Firm dominance will stop and think about the consequences before they call for more punishment.

The time has come to end this sorry episode and start fresh with a positive new beginning for all of Scottish football.

We can’t stand by and allow small clubs with their ridiculous tiny supports to gather on Friday the 13th and chase millions of pounds out of our game.

The time for action has come and Doncaster and his SPL member clubs cannot afford to hesitate a moment longer.

● I chuckled as those bailing out of Rangers talked about their heartbreak at leaving the club they loved.

I don’t have a problem with what the three Stevens – Whittaker, Davis and Naismith – have done, I’d be gone too.

But don’t play us for fools with the badge-kissing bull**** and the crocodile tears.

The same for players trying to court fans by declaring it’s their lifelong dream to play for whoever they join.

I never tried to fool anyone like that. The cold facts are that players will sign anywhere if it’s in the right league for the right money.

● How can we take FIFA seriously when their latest world rankings throw up the ridiculous notion that England are the fourth best team on the planet?

The same England who were battered by sixth-placed Italy and outplayed by 14th-ranked France at the Euros.

Then you cast your eye down the list and see Brazil outside the top 10 trailing behind Denmark. It does nothing to enhance Sepp Blatter (left) and Co’s reputation as unfit for purpose.

Absolutely disgusting :bitchy: :grr:

[PatHead]

But Zombie Huns are not rangers. So what are they being punished for exactly? Your argument could be used to say that Ben Johnson's son shouldnt be allowed to compete in the Olympics because his dad was a cheat.

This argument is about whether it is advisable or desirable to admit a new club into the SFL at a higher level than normal. In that situation the clubs only concern should be how will their final decision affect their member clubs. It is not the job of the SFL or anybody else for that matter to punish Zombie Huns.

We cant have it both ways .... Either this club is Rangers, with all of the baggage that goes with that. Or it is not Rangers, in which case my previous comments are valid.

I agree with your point that this is not Rangers. Why should they then get into the second tier? Unfortunately because a lot of people see them as the new Rangers. They play in blue, they play at Ibrox, Sky ESPN say "Rangers" must be there so they obviously see "them" as the new Rangers.


Just like how we now see Airdrie United, we don't see their history at New Kilbowie................................

[jgl07]

But Zombie Huns are not rangers. So what are they being punished for exactly? Your argument could be used to say that Ben Johnson's son shouldnt be allowed to compete in the Olympics because his dad was a cheat.

This argument is about whether it is advisable or desirable to admit a new club into the SFL at a higher level than normal. In that situation the clubs only concern should be how will their final decision affect their member clubs. It is not the job of the SFL or anybody else for that matter to punish Zombie Huns.

We cant have it both ways .... Either this club is Rangers, with all of the baggage that goes with that. Or it is not Rangers, in which case my previous comments are valid.

This is complete rubbish.

Since when have any new team been admitted to the SFL at anothing but the bottom level. Did they fast track Inverness through to Division One? They were obviusly going to be a far bigger club that most in the lower divisions as proved by subsequent events.

Rangers should be thankful that their was no established pyramid structure in Scotland or they would have had to had to start at a much lower level.

In any event if they are not Rangers they could not be considered for membership of the SFA. In order to operate as a football club they need SFA membership. This cannot be granted to anyone who walks in off the street.

PS When did Neil Doncaster hack your account?

[Northernhibee]

Right, let's get this article forwarded to all the SFL member clubs.

Am I right in thinking that there's an e-mail list somewhere in this thread?

[YehButNoBut]

Not sure if this has been posted but statement from Hibs supporters club on the Rangers situation, issued today.

http://hibsclub.co.uk/2012/07/08/statement-on-rangers-scottish-football/

[rcarter1]

Funny how we all see this differently. For me, Sevco are Rangers. They will be supported by Rangers fans - and benefit from the financial advantage of that, they will call themselves Rangers or The Rangers, they are definitely not Celtic, and they are not some strange new club that will be supported by a new set of people. In all likelihood they will play at Ibrox, and still, as yet have some players that were on Rangers books.

So whats changed?

The company is about to be liquidated. This is the great-grandfather of all financial sidesteps.

From 30 - 130 million pounds in debt, to wooops, no debts.

A football club is generally successful as a function of its financial strength. It is therefore the most remarkable stealing of an advantage I have ever had the misfortune to witness - UNLESS they are punished in some fashion.
I wish, before this all got to this point, that they were forced to trade - as normal in the SPL, but be forced to pay 10 million per year to service these debts. Apparently they don't have to because of business/financial law.

If they do get back into Div 1, then there had better be some drastic penalties associated with it.

[Caversham Green]

But Zombie Huns are not rangers. So what are they being punished for exactly? Your argument could be used to say that Ben Johnson's son shouldnt be allowed to compete in the Olympics because his dad was a cheat.

This argument is about whether it is advisable or desirable to admit a new club into the SFL at a higher level than normal. In that situation the clubs only concern should be how will their final decision affect their member clubs. It is not the job of the SFL or anybody else for that matter to punish Zombie Huns.

We cant have it both ways .... Either this club is Rangers, with all of the baggage that goes with that. Or it is not Rangers, in which case my previous comments are valid.

This comes back to the point I made many pages ago. There's a choice to be made whether Zombie Huns are a completely new club or a continuation of the old one. The law of the land is absolutely clear - they are a new entity and therefore escape all the sins of the old club - but the laws of the football authorities are ambiguous because they refer to clubs rather than companies without defining what a club is. However, if they're a completely new club they must be treated as such and admitted to the SFL in the prescribed way, without fear or favour to quote Mr Regan, and that is into SFL3. And, regardless of what their fans say, they have absolutely no history - no cups, no league titles, no European record. If they're a continuation of the old club they must answer to charges for all of the previous company's misdemeanours and that should result in suspension for at least a season judging by the apellate tribunal's comments.

What we're seeing is an attempt to cherry-pick the 'good' bits and discard most of the 'bad' bits - the equivalent of awarding Ben Johnson a silver medal - that has no legal or moral justification IMO. What's more, it's all being done in the most arrogant, bullying and clumsy way possible.

They can't be allowed to have it both ways either.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This is complete rubbish.

Since when have any new team been admitted to the SFL at anothing but the bottom level. Did they fast track Inverness through to Division One? They were obviusly going to be a far bigger club that most in the lower divisions as proved by subsequent events.

Rangers should be thankful that their was no established pyramid structure in Scotland or they would have had to had to start at a much lower level.

In any event if they are not Rangers they could not be considered for membership of the SFA. In order to operate as a football club they need SFA membership. This cannot be granted to anyone who walks in off the street.

PS When did Neil Doncaster hack your account?

In your opinion. There fixed that for you.

[BSEJVT]

To pick up on this point only, sporting integrity does exist - it's the most fundamental element of sport. Participants will always try to cicumvent sporting integrity to varying degrees because they are more interested in winning, particularly in professional sport and that's why we have referees, umpires etc. and further up the chain governing bodies such as the SFA, the Olympics committees and suchlike. When a participant is caught trying to circumvent sporting integrity (i.e. cheating) they will be punished - by a free-kick/caution/sending off within the actual match or by fines, suspensions or points deductions afterwards. If sporting integrity didn't exist Ben Johnson would have an Olympic gold medal now.

The problem with the "Rangers" situation is that the authorities, whose main purpose of existence is to uphold sporting integrity, are themselves actively seeking ways to circumvent it. What they're doing now is the equivalent of the OC offering Johnson a silver medal because he would draw better attendances at future games as a medallist. It rewards cheating and robs all the honest participants of their just rewards, which then begs the questions why be honest or why participate at all.

Sport ceases to become sport when sporting integrity is lost and our sporting authorities are in the process of killing it right now. That's why everyone is so angry.

Wouldnt /couldnt disagree with that

Sporting integrity though means different things to different people.

For me it means the old Corinthian spirit of man v man

Not imported £5m player v homegrown youth and that was the basis of my comments

It's all about blurring lines and where your personal lines start to blur

[NAE NOOKIE]

This comes back to the point I made many pages ago. There's a choice to be made whether Zombie Huns are a completely new club or a continuation of the old one. The law of the land is absolutely clear - they are a new entity and therefore escape all the sins of the old club - but the laws of the football authorities are ambiguous because they refer to clubs rather than companies without defining what a club is. However, if they're a completely new club they must be treated as such and admitted to the SFL in the prescribed way, without fear or favour to quote Mr Regan, and that is into SFL3. And, regardless of what their fans say, they have absolutely no history - no cups, no league titles, no European record. If they're a continuation of the old club they must answer to charges for all of the previous company's misdemeanours and that should result in suspension for at least a season judging by the apellate tribunal's comments.

What we're seeing is an attempt to cherry-pick the 'good' bits and discard most of the 'bad' bits - the equivalent of awarding Ben Johnson a silver medal - that has no legal or moral justification IMO. What's more, it's all being done in the most arrogant, bullying and clumsy way possible.

They can't be allowed to have it both ways either.

Thanks for a considered reply to my post.

A far as I know legally there is nothing to stop the SFL putting a new applicant into any league they want, morally .. well I agree thats a different matter. I also agree totally with your last sentence ... our game is run by idiots for the most part it would seem.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for a considered reply to my post.

A far as I know legally there is nothing to stop the SFL putting a new applicant into any league they want, morally .. well I agree thats a different matter. I also agree totally with your last sentence ... our game is run by idiots for the most part it would seem.

Aha... not so fast :greengrin

I have been trawling the SFL Rules. http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/docs/SFL_Constitution_and_Rules.pdf

94 2.2 "the ultimate vacancy caused by the original default will occur in the lowest Division of the League."

That ties in with Longmuir's statement last week that, if Sevco are voted in to D1, then the SFL has to change its rules. (which needs a 75% majority). :rolleyes:

[PatHead]

Annan Athletic say they do not want Rangers in SPL1.

[grunt]

Aha... not so fast :greengrin

I have been trawling the SFL Rules. http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/docs/SFL_Constitution_and_Rules.pdf

94 2.2 "the ultimate vacancy caused by the original default will occur in the lowest Division of the League."

That ties in with Longmuir's statement last week that, if Sevco are voted in to D1, then the SFL has to change its rules. (which needs a 75% majority). :rolleyes:
Yeah but how does this sit with Rule 94.3 which states:


If any club(s) is expelled, resigns, retires or ceases to be a member of the League for any reason after the end of one playing season but before the commencement of the next playing season, the Board will have full powers to deal with the situation as it deems appropriate.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah but how does this sit with Rule 94.3 which states:

Not sure how that applies to Sevco.

[grunt]

Not sure how that applies to Sevco.Gives the "Board" carte blanche to do what they like?

[CropleyWasGod]

Gives the "Board" carte blanche to do what they like?

But Sevco are a new club, who haven't ceased to be a member of the League etc etc. They have never been a member of the SFL, either as RFC or as Sevco.

[Kaiser1962]

From 30 - 130 million pounds in debt, to wooops, no debts.



Given the statements of Dodds and Boumsong it is the worst case scenario for the Huns. The argument was whether the EBT's were pre or post tax and it appears their statements have ended that particular debate.

If Dodds statement was accurate I fail to see why those responsible are not investigated for fraud.

[grunt]

But Sevco are a new club, who haven't ceased to be a member of the League etc etc. They have never been a member of the SFL, either as RFC or as Sevco.Oh, ok.

[SteveHFC]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/stuartm65/rangershome-2.png

[jdships]

Regardless of what name SEVCO adopts , sadly we will still have to suffer the problems that go with the baggage connected with the dead and buried " Glasgow Rangers "
If they are placed in Div 3 , in three years time we will be back to where we were three months ago with unnaceptable behaviour et al .
Nothing will have changed except the name and a new bunch of saddo's running the
" same ship different funnel "

[DC_Hibs]

But Sevco are a new club, who haven't ceased to be a member of the League etc etc. They have never been a member of the SFL, either as RFC or as Sevco.

That would be my interpretation of it as well. Thanks for link to the rule book as that is the type of information we should be sending to Uefa bearing in mind the authorities blatant disregard for their own regulations...and precedents.

[blackpoolhibs]

Regardless of what name SEVCO takes , sadly we will still have to suffer the problems that go with the baggage connected with the dead and buried " Glasgow Rangers "
If they are placed in Div 3 , in three years time we will be back to where we were three months ago with unnaceptable behaviour et al .
Nothing will have changed except the name and a new bunch of saddo's running the " same ship different funnel "

In my opinion that has to be wrong, or this whole episode will have been a complete waste of time.

Letting whatever they are called back into the league in Div 1 would be a huge mistake, it would not give us enough time to restructure the leagues, and bring in changes that the game needs.

There needs to be enough time so as proper consultation has taken place, on every point of this, not something rushed in and perhaps overlooking or even missing important issues?

[VickMackie]

Not sure how that applies to Sevco.

I read it as if Dundee get promoted there will cease to be a member of the SFL and therefore a free space. The only way the SPL could avoid the situation, by that rule, is not to demote Dunfermline coa they're not a member currently.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Not sure if this has been posted but statement from Hibs supporters club on the Rangers situation, issued today.

http://hibsclub.co.uk/2012/07/08/statement-on-rangers-scottish-football/

Just to expand that. The Hibernian Supporters Association statement is spot on in my opinion.

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers – if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership – should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the “no” vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive – with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA – has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits – including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times – would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian – like all clubs – are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs – including our own – to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to “sporting integrity” we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs – debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income – remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of “hating” Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

BIG G

[CropleyWasGod]

I read it as if Dundee get promoted there will cease to be a member of the SFL and therefore a free space. The only way the SPL could avoid the situation, by that rule, is not to demote Dunfermline coa they're not a member currently.

But it's still not relevant to Sevco. If there is a vacancy in the SFL, they can only go into D3.

[marinello59]

But it's still not relevant to Sevco. If there is a vacancy in the SFL, they can only go into D3.

her's a quote from Clyde FC's statement which was lauded on here as a pretty good summary of the situation. I have posted it up a couple of times but for some weird reason it is ignored.


"The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier.

[marinello59]

In my opinion that has to be wrong, or this whole episode will have been a complete waste of time.

Letting whatever they are called back into the league in Div 1 would be a huge mistake, it would not give us enough time to restructure the leagues, and bring in changes that the game needs.

There needs to be enough time so as proper consultation has taken place, on every point of this, not something rushed in and perhaps overlooking or even missing important issues?

That ship has already sailed. Time has run out. I would consider Rangers in SFL1 if it genuinely was for the greater good. Like it or not they will be back and their massive fan base means they still have considerable power in the game. That's reality. What we are seeing happening though is something else entirely. Forcing the SFL clubs to leave the decision to faceless men in a darkened room dependant on some non-defined list of demands is simply wrong.Hopefully the SFl clubs will stand strong and prevent this stitch up from happening.

[CropleyWasGod]

her's a quote from Clyde FC's statement which was lauded on here as a pretty good summary of the situation. I have posted it up a couple of times but for some weird reason it is ignored.

With respect to Clyde, they obviously haven't read the Rules. They are quite explicit, IMO.

[marinello59]

With respect to Clyde, they obviously haven't read the Rules. They are quite explicit, IMO.

And with respect to everybody else, slipping on the dayglo jackets and jobsworth demeanour whilst demanding a strict adherance to the rules at a time of crisis helps nobody. We all seem to agree that our administrators have got things hopelessly wrong but the rules that they have lumbered us with seemingly should not be questioned.

[CropleyWasGod]

And with respect to everybody else, slipping on the dayglo jackets and jobsworth demeanour whilst demanding a strict adherance to the rules at a time of crisis helps nobody. We all seem to agree that our administrators have got things hopelessly wrong but the rules that they have lumbered us with seemingly should not be questioned.

Not sure what you're getting at. If the SFL are trying to circumvent their own rules... whether they're sensible rules or not.... surely that is an issue that has to be addressed, no?

[marinello59]

Not sure what you're getting at. If the SFL are trying to circumvent their own rules... whether they're sensible rules or not.... surely that is an issue that has to be addressed, no?

Of course you are right.
I am just so hacked off with the whole situation I wish we could just rip up the whole rule book and let common sense prevail. I am close to the point of not caring anymore beyond continuing to follow and support Hibs.

[CropleyWasGod]

Of course you are right.
I am just so hacked off with the whole situation I wish we could just rip up the whole rule book and let common sense prevail. I am close to the point of not caring anymore beyond continuing to follow and support Hibs.

You're not the only one, of course. But it's only by pointing out the inconsistencies and lies that are peddled that some sort of justice can be achieved.

[VickMackie]

But it's still not relevant to Sevco. If there is a vacancy in the SFL, they can only go into D3.

It is relevant if there's nothing in the rules to bump up teams if there is a vacancy. It explicitly says they can deal with things as they like when someone ceases to be a member.

Dundee, or Ross county, meet the criteria of ceasing the be members do they can put rangers in div 1.

[CropleyWasGod]

It is relevant if there's nothing in the rules to bump up teams if there is a vacancy. It explicitly says they can deal with things as they like when someone ceases to be a member.

Dundee, or Ross county, meet the criteria of ceasing the be members do they can put rangers in div 1.

No it doesn't. See the Constitution that i posted earlier. 94 2.2, I think. It's quite explicit in terms of a new team filling a vacancy, which Sevco are

[marinello59]

No it doesn't. See the Constitution that i posted earlier. 94 2.2, I think. It's quite explicit in terms of a NEW TEAM fillign a vacancy, which Sevco are

Could you make post up a video of yourself saying that in a ''Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club'' stylee?:thumbsup:

[WindyMiller]

Could you make post up a video of yourself saying that in a ''Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club'' stylee?:thumbsup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-KrzEeh5R4

[CropleyWasGod]

Could you make post up a video of yourself saying that in a ''Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club'' stylee?:thumbsup:

Quiet when the turn's on, puhlease!!

:greengrin

[VickMackie]

No it doesn't. See the Constitution that i posted earlier. 94 2.2, I think. It's quite explicit in terms of a new team filling a vacancy, which Sevco are

When you put them both together it looks like you're correct. Rule change it is then!

[CropleyWasGod]

When you put them both together it looks like you're correct. Rule change it is then!

... which is what Longmuir said on Friday would need to happen.

What worries me, though, is that clubs like Clyde don't seem to know the rules. Maybe Mr. Thomson could point that out to them. :greengrin

[VickMackie]

... which is what Longmuir said on Friday would need to happen.

What worries me, though, is that clubs like Clyde don't seem to know the rules. Maybe Mr. Thomson could point that out to them. :greengrin

Although its understandable that each club won't have high powered lawyers dissecting every rule for a loophole.

They could all chip in for a lawyer to fight back against stuff being forced on them. However, they all don't see the game going in the same direction so that would be difficult.

[Caversham Green]

In an attempt to explain the apparent conflict between the two rules:

Rule 94 2.2 gives a specific ruling that any vacancy occurs in the bottom league, there is a vacancy, therefore it is in SFL 3.

Rule 94.3 is a catch-all to cover unforeseen circumstances - it gives the board discretion to deal with the situation of a club being expelled, resigning etc in whatever way it thinks fit - that does not refer to the vacancy, because that has already been dealt with in a prior rule. Possible circumstances that it could deal with are if one of the resigning team had been in a promotion/relegation position (between SFL leagues) the board would decide what team would be promoted/relegated in its place. Or, if a team had been found to be paying players outside their contracts and expelled as a result the board could decide whether to expunge that club's results for the previous season - possibly affecting final league positions - or leave things as they were. The vacancy is still specifically in Div 3 because Rule 94 2.2 says so.

On Clyde's statement I got the feeling that they were reporting what they had been told but were cynical about it - I think there was a 'this is news to us' type of comment within their statement.

[marinello59]

In an attempt to explain the apparent conflict between the two rules:

Rule 94 2.2 gives a specific ruling that any vacancy occurs in the bottom league, there is a vacancy, therefore it is in SFL 3.

Rule 94.3 is a catch-all to cover unforeseen circumstances - it gives the board discretion to deal with the situation of a club being expelled, resigning etc in whatever way it thinks fit - that does not refer to the vacancy, because that has already been dealt with in a prior rule. Possible circumstances that it could deal with are if one of the resigning team had been in a promotion/relegation position (between SFL leagues) the board would decide what team would be promoted/relegated in its place. Or, if a team had been found to be paying players outside their contracts and expelled as a result the board could decide whether to expunge that club's results for the previous season - possibly affecting final league positions - or leave things as they were. The vacancy is still specifically in Div 3 because Rule 94 2.2 says so.

On Clyde's statement I got the feeling that they were reporting what they had been told but were cynical about it - I think there was a 'this is news to us' type of comment within their statement.

After reading this comment and re-reading the Clyde statement you may well be right. In fact I think you are. Good analysis, I stand corrected.

[YehButNoBut]

According to this Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir is expecting Rangers to be in Div 1 next season.

http://www.football.co.uk/rangers/longmuir_eyes_rangers_dday_rss2682118.shtml

The vast majority of Ibrox fans favour a fresh start in the bottom tier after last week's failed bid to remain in the Scottish Premier League.

However, the First Division looks the likely destination after Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan claimed that dire financial consequences meant he could not allow Ally McCoist's side to resume life in Division Three.

Longmuir expects to meet with Regan and Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster over the next few days before the decision about Rangers newco is taken by the SPL board, on behalf of its members, who would then look forward to a package of reforms which are likely to include the re-introduction of play-offs and changes to the distribution of finances and votes.

[PatHead]

According to this Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir is expecting Rangers to be in Div 1 next season.

http://www.football.co.uk/rangers/longmuir_eyes_rangers_dday_rss2682118.shtml

The vast majority of Ibrox fans favour a fresh start in the bottom tier after last week's failed bid to remain in the Scottish Premier League.

However, the First Division looks the likely destination after Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan claimed that dire financial consequences meant he could not allow Ally McCoist's side to resume life in Division Three.

Longmuir expects to meet with Regan and Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster over the next few days before the decision about Rangers newco is taken by the SPL board, on behalf of its members, who would then look forward to a package of reforms which are likely to include the re-introduction of play-offs and changes to the distribution of finances and votes.

Can't believe Doncaster is acting alone. He must have approval of the various SPL boards. We must all contact Hibs to demand if they agree with this action. In addition other fans must contact heir clubs and say likewise. What would be the best email address to write to?

[MacBean]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Burley is a clown

[snooky]

Of course you are right.
I am just so hacked off with the whole situation I wish we could just rip up the whole rule book and let common sense prevail. I am close to the point of not caring anymore beyond continuing to follow and support Hibs.

I think I'm actually past that point primarily due to the blatant impartiality of muppets in charge of this "Carry On Rangers" comedy, straight out of Pinewood Studios. :yawn:

[The Baldmans Comb]

Can't believe Doncaster is acting alone. He must have approval of the various SPL boards. We must all contact Hibs to demand if they agree with this action. In addition other fans must contact heir clubs and say likewise. What would be the best email address to write to?

Doncaster is just the messageboy and he is working with the full knowledge of the SPL boards and the SFL Board and the SFA. Here are the men who run Scottish football so you could start with any of them.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=2560

One of them is very familiar though he has two hats to wear so it's hard to be to critical of this stance to date.

[PatHead]

Doncaster is just the messageboy and he is working with the full knowledge of the SPL boards and the SFL Board and the SFA. Here are the men who run Scottish football so you could start with any of them.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=2560

One of them is very familiar though he has two hats to wear so it's hard to be to critical of this stance to date.

Thanks will work on a letter tomorrow.

[Cabbage East]

If this goes down like I think it will then Doncaster, Regan, Longmuir et al won't know what's hit them. There's no way they'll walk away from this unscathed.

[hibs0666]

Has the SFA acted according to its core values?


We are open, honest and trusted to do the right thing, in a manner that reflects the highest standards of integrity
We are dynamic, enthusiastic and proactive in delivering the highest standards of performance
We act in a business-like, responsive and correct manner
We involve, engage and listen, treating everyone in a considerate and dignified manner
We work together as a team, behaving in an equitable and inclusive manner
We are excited and enthused by all that we do
We are driven and committed to excel in all aspects of quality and service

[jamieross]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Burley is a clown


Guys a muppet! 'Aye lets give the cheaters a second chance, while the smaller clubs who've played by the rules can go **** themselves'. Speaks as if the old firm are the only clubs involved in scottish football, really doesnt have a clue.:rolleyes:

[jgl07]

According to this Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir is expecting Rangers to be in Div 1 next season.

http://www.football.co.uk/rangers/longmuir_eyes_rangers_dday_rss2682118.shtml

The vast majority of Ibrox fans favour a fresh start in the bottom tier after last week's failed bid to remain in the Scottish Premier League.

However, the First Division looks the likely destination after Scottish Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan claimed that dire financial consequences meant he could not allow Ally McCoist's side to resume life in Division Three.

Longmuir expects to meet with Regan and Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster over the next few days before the decision about Rangers newco is taken by the SPL board, on behalf of its members, who would then look forward to a package of reforms which are likely to include the re-introduction of play-offs and changes to the distribution of finances and votes.

The financial consequences of not admitting Rangers to Division One have been computed, rather inaccurately, but has anyone calculate to cost of admitting them to Division One in terms of loss of support to SPL and SFL clubs. The former are all short term costs, the latter are long term.

I initially voted with the minority on this poll saying that I would continue to support the game. That was based on an assumption that if the SFL decided to vote a Rangers entity into Division One, that was their concern. However given the blackmail being employed by the corrupt Scottish Football establishment, I have decided to call it a day. This has gone on for far too long

I have a season ticket for next season which I will not be collecting. I will not be back at any match in Scotland.

Maybe if the SFL clubs stage a revolt and block the move I may reconsider. It will probably be restricted to attending Dunfermline or Raith Rovers matches.

The fact that the Authorities were prepared to risk the destruction of Scottish Football to accommodate a toxic club who have lied and cheated their way to numerous titles and cups is beyond belief. The fact that it was against the views expressed by the vast majority of supporters of all clubs makes it doubly concerning.

Those responsible are no longer worthy of our support. They will lead Scottish Football to its demise in its current form.

Enough is enough.

[Lungo--Drom]

Excellent statement from the club. No doubt now as to the views held by the those in boardroom at ER. Almost as good as Mad Vlad's rant last week. So as a club Hibs are saying, "**** the Huns, get the ***** into SFL3, Duncaster and Regan are a pair or corrupt ****s." Well said Hibs, I am glad you have made your stance totally clear.


Not sure if this has been posted but statement from Hibs supporters club on the Rangers situation, issued today.

http://hibsclub.co.uk/2012/07/08/statement-on-rangers-scottish-football/

[Pete]

Excellent statement from the club. No doubt now as to the views held by the those in boardroom at ER. Almost as good as Mad Vlad's rant last week. So as a club Hibs are saying, "**** the Huns, get the ***** into SFL3, Duncaster and Regan are a pair or corrupt ****s." Well said Hibs, I am glad you have made your stance totally clear.

That statement is from the supporters club, not the actual club.

Hibs have said nothing as the matter is now out of their hands.

[MWHIBBIES]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Burley is a clown
I truly detest that idiot with a passion.

[Onion]

Has the SFA acted according to its core values?


We are open, honest and trusted to do the right thing, in a manner that reflects the highest standards of integrity
We are dynamic, enthusiastic and proactive in delivering the highest standards of performance
We act in a business-like, responsive and correct manner
We involve, engage and listen, treating everyone in a considerate and dignified manner
We work together as a team, behaving in an equitable and inclusive manner
We are excited and enthused by all that we do
We are driven and committed to excel in all aspects of quality and service


Absolutely shameful.

[EdinMike]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/08/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-must-vote-rangers-newco-into-first-division-86908-23906004/

Burley is a clown


I had to stop reading his drivvle after a paragraph or so. What an absolute eejit, no clue or morals and as long as idiots like this can have "their" say in the West of Scotland driven Media, then I still stand on my principles of not paying attention to it...

Until you point my attention to it :greengrin

[Jim44]

Has the SFA acted according to its core values?


We are open, honest and trusted to do the right thing, in a manner that reflects the highest standards of integrity
We are dynamic, enthusiastic and proactive in delivering the highest standards of performance
We act in a business-like, responsive and correct manner
We involve, engage and listen, treating everyone in a considerate and dignified manner
We work together as a team, behaving in an equitable and inclusive manner
We are excited and enthused by all that we do
We are driven and committed to excel in all aspects of quality and service


While any decent person would thoroughly disagree, I suspect that Regan, Longmuir and Doncaster will perversely consider that they are acting within core values 1 and 3.

[PeeJay]

I had to stop reading his drivvle after a paragraph or so. What an absolute eejit, no clue or morals and as long as idiots like this can have "their" say in the West of Scotland driven Media, then I still stand on my principles of not paying attention to it...

Until you point my attention to it :greengrin

Considering RFC made a huge PR disaster by not apologising for their previous misdeeds and instead trying to blame all and sundry for a predicament that only they as a club/company are responsible for, I can only assume Burley is not very bright if he feels that calling people 'nonentities' and 'muppets' will benefit his/their cause in any way ... surely some of his "friends" must have pointed out to him that this article was anything but a good idea? :confused:

In publishing this, the Daily Drivel only confirms what a poor excuse for a newspaper it really is...

[Jim44]

THE Charles Green consortium have told
Rangers supporters that it would take at least
£50 million for them to sell the newco club – a
figure which would give them an astonishing
900 per cent profit on their initial £5.5m
investment.


m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-newco-charles-green-consortium-put-50m-sale-price-on-club-1-2400417



Apologies if already posted. From this morning's Scotsman.

[Hainan Hibs]

THE Charles Green consortium have told
Rangers supporters that it would take at least
£50 million for them to sell the newco club – a
figure which would give them an astonishing
900 per cent profit on their initial £5.5m
investment.


m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-newco-charles-green-consortium-put-50m-sale-price-on-club-1-2400417



Apologies if already posted. From this morning's Scotsman.

I read that in the voice of the Dragon Den's presenter:greengrin

[Steve-O]

The Burley article is the worst one yet! An absolute idiot of a man who clearly is not capable of forming a coherent argument so resorts to petty namecalling against people that have done absolutely nothing wrong! He should be ashamed of himself, but the worrying thing is that he probably genuinely believes what he is saying!

[ScottB]

That statement is from the supporters club, not the actual club.

Hibs have said nothing as the matter is now out of their hands.

But it isn't, in fact, since the SPL Board is the one bullying the SFL clubs and Hibs are, by extension, very much a part of that.

[steakbake]

THE Charles Green consortium have told
Rangers supporters that it would take at least
£50 million for them to sell the newco club – a
figure which would give them an astonishing
900 per cent profit on their initial £5.5m
investment.


m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-newco-charles-green-consortium-put-50m-sale-price-on-club-1-2400417



Apologies if already posted. From this morning's Scotsman.

Saw this too. It's basically a rehash of the scotslaw blog from a few days ago. Just goes to show that the dead tree journalism is days behind a story.

Any decent full time journo could have picked this up and made a big deal out of it before now. What we've seen from this is that the tinternet is where the story is at. The papers are either machines of propaganda and one sided opinion pieces or days behind the story.

A general level of very poor sports journalism in Scotland is one of the revelations or maybe confirmations, of this saga.

[marinello59]

Saw this too. It's basically a rehash of the scotslaw blog from a few days ago. Just goes to show that the dead tree journalism is days behind a story.

Any decent full time journo could have picked this up and made a big deal out of it before now. What we've seen from this is that the tinternet is where the story is at. The papers are either machines of propaganda and one sided opinion pieces or days behind the story.

A general level of very poor sports journalism in Scotland is one of the revelations or maybe confirmations, of this saga.

This story should have been covered by financial / business journalists. The bloggers are leading the way here because they are experts in their field. The newspaper industry will have it's work cut out to compete in future.

[WindyMiller]

This story should have been covered by financial / business journalists. The bloggers are leading the way here because they are experts in their field. The newspaper industry will have it's work cut out to compete in future.


I believe the support given by the Scottish mainstream media to, all the variations of, Huns FC is based on job protection.

They have done no more than publish what the Huns' media dept. want them to publish, and Burley's statement is the prime example.

[magpie1892]

Considering RFC made a huge PR disaster by not apologising for their previous misdeeds and instead trying to blame all and sundry for a predicament that only they as a club/company are responsible for, I can only assume Burley is not very bright if he feels that calling people 'nonentities' and 'muppets' will benefit his/their cause in any way ... surely some of his "friends" must have pointed out to him that this article was anything but a good idea? :confused:

In publishing this, the Daily Drivel only confirms what a poor excuse for a newspaper it really is...

It's entirely deliberate. I've worked on the sports desk of the Record and I can tell you that there will have been tears of laughter from many, many members of staff at the Burley and Hateley pieces. But they generate debate, sell papers (for a title which is plummeting) and appeal to a certain section of football fan/society who think these columns are fair comment.

It's the same with The Sun (for whom I write fairly frequently) and their Goram pieces.

Having worked on both papers, I can tell you that the production people, who actually put the paper together, are mainly fans of 'diddy' teams and there's also a surprising number of English people at both papers in sport (there's a reason for this, but it's not interesting).

[magpie1892]

I believe the support given by the Scottish mainstream media to, all the variations of, Huns FC is based on job protection.

They have done no more than publish what the Huns' media dept. want them to publish, and Burley's statement is the prime example.

Job protection to an extent, but not for the reason you cite (my bold).

[MrSmith]

It's entirely deliberate. I've worked on the sports desk of the Record and I can tell you that there will have been tears of laughter from many, many members of staff at the Burley and Hateley pieces. But they generate debate, sell papers (for a title which is plummeting) and appeal to a certain section of football fan/society who think these columns are fair comment.

It's the same with The Sun (for whom I write fairly frequently) and their Goram pieces.

Having worked on both papers, I can tell you that the production people, who actually put the paper together, are mainly fans of 'diddy' teams and there's also a surprising number of English people at both papers in sport (there's a reason for this, but it's not interesting).

Please elucidate ... got me interested! ;)

[Steve-O]

Just when you thought it was safe to go read the Record...there's slavering pile of pish today from Murdo McLeod :rolleyes:

The first paragraph states that he once scored the winner in a six goal Old Firm thriller and it just goes downhill from there. Apparently the league will be pointless as we all know who will win it...Welcome to the real world outside Glasgow, Murdo! :bye:

[Saorsa]

Burley's article. Unbelievable. Beyond belief :bitchy: what a ****in' prick he is, I hope all those SFL chairmen have a look at that, hopefully it will persuade those that were dithering tae vote no tae even let them in the league at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just when you thought it was safe to go read the Record...there's slavering pile of pish today from Murdo McLeod :rolleyes:

The first paragraph states that he once scored the winner in a six goal Old Firm thriller and it just goes downhill from there. Apparently the league will be pointless as we all know who will win it...Welcome to the real world outside Glasgow, Murdo! :bye:

Is it just me being pedantic? How can one score the winner in a 6-goal match?

[Steve-O]

Is it just me being pedantic? How can one score the winner in a 6-goal match?

Exactly my point, but that is what the idiot says :greengrin

[magpie1892]

Is it just me being pedantic? How can one score the winner in a 6-goal match?

4-2?

[PatHead]

4-2?

Not a winner though is it? One team has won by 2 goals.

[StevieC]

4-2?

But there are two goals scored to win the game in that scoreline. A winner would be the 3rd goal in a 3-2 win (after it sitting at 2-2).

[Geo_1875]

4-2?

Was the winner the 3rd or 4th?

[CropleyWasGod]

3.5-2.5? :greengrin

[magpie1892]

Please elucidate ... got me interested! ;)

Doubt anyone else is interested so drop me a PM and will explain in due course (busy, busy ATM)

[Jim44]

There's a thread on FF about a petition to get rid of Regan and Lawwell. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...r-purpose.html . One of the posts on the thread asks - can someone post this on the Hibs wed site as they are keep to get rid of Regan... Why single us out? - I'd have thought most clubs wanted him out. Of course our reasons for getting rid of him are different. We want rid of him as he is making a mockery of rules and procedures. They want rid of him mainly because he is trying to force them into Div 1 while they want Div 3 in order to 'cripple' (their words) other SPL clubs.

[Offside Trap]

It's entirely deliberate. I've worked on the sports desk of the Record and I can tell you that there will have been tears of laughter from many, many members of staff at the Burley and Hateley pieces. But they generate debate, sell papers (for a title which is plummeting) and appeal to a certain section of football fan/society who think these columns are fair comment.

It's the same with The Sun (for whom I write fairly frequently) and their Goram pieces.

Having worked on both papers, I can tell you that the production people, who actually put the paper together, are mainly fans of 'diddy' teams and there's also a surprising number of English people at both papers in sport (there's a reason for this, but it's not interesting).

Interesting insight - thanks for sharing it. In other words the Daily Record thinks it is OK to sell newspapers by insulting people ("muppets" and "nonentities")? I get that the media is there to provoke debate and should provide reasoned perspectives - but your post suggests there is an institutionalised acceptance by the DR that insulting people to increase revenue is OK? Interesting corporate philosophy....:greengrin

[Jim44]

Interesting insight - thanks for sharing it. In other words the Daily Record thinks it is OK to sell newspapers by insulting people ("muppets" and "nonentities")? I get that the media is there to provoke debate and should provide reasoned perspectives - but your post suggests there is an institutionalised acceptance by the DR that insulting people to increase revenue is OK? Interesting corporate philosophy....:greengrin

Burley's insults could backfire on him as the very people he attacks will read the DR and will take offence and hopefully action.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Burley knows what he is talking about. You would never see him sign for a team on mythical wages and then not see a penny of them......
That would be a real description of a muppet.

[s.a.m]

Jane Lewis‏@JaneLewisSport#Fifa (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Fifa) have no concerns over latest developments re. #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) Newco. Preference is always to leave with National Association, so #sfa (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23sfa)

brian mclauchlin‏@BBCBMcLauchlin
Rangers have refused International clearance for the transfers of Davis, Lafferty, Ness, Whittaker and Naismith. more soon

[Phil MaGlass]

saw this too. It's basically a rehash of the scotslaw blog from a few days ago. Just goes to show that the dead tree journalism is days behind a story.

Any decent full time journo could have picked this up and made a big deal out of it before now. What we've seen from this is that the tinternet is where the story is at. The papers are either machines of propaganda and one sided opinion pieces or days behind the story.

a general level of very poor sports journalism in scotland is one of the revelations or maybe confirmations, of this saga.

absofu--inlutely

[Gus Fring]

Cracking article by STV summarising the current known feelings in the SFL, with all statements available etc.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/108222-rangers-newco-vote-sfl-clubs-outline-their-positions-on-the-issue/

[steakbake]

Job protection to an extent, but not for the reason you cite (my bold).

Magpie -

Would I be right in supposing that job protection is also to a certain extent, behind the statements that people like Chick Young and Jim Traynor have been coming out with?

It seems to me that without Rangers, these two in particular would run out of things to talk about. They might actually have to do some work to find out what goes on at places beyond Ibrox.

Seems also that people like Young and Traynor have lots of contacts in the Glasgow sporting world, specifically at Ibrox and with them gone or out of the way for some time, well, that's more than half of what they've got to say rendered totally irrelevant.

[calmac12000]

Magpie -

Would I be right in supposing that job protection is also to a certain extent, behind the statements that people like Chick Young and Jim Traynor have been coming out with?

It seems to me that without Rangers, these two in particular would run out of things to talk about. They might actually have to do some work to find out what goes on at places beyond Ibrox.

Seems also that people like Young and Traynor have lots of contacts in the Glasgow sporting world, specifically at Ibrox and with them gone or out of the way for some time, well, that's more than half of what they've got to say rendered totally irrelevant.

Be interesting to find ot how good their contacts are amongst Third Division clubs

[poolman]

http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news/article/press-statement-2010-11-01/ :hmmm:

[Seveno]

Good to see that the Herald has picked up the statement form the Supporters Association. It might galvanise other similar bodies to do the same.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hibs-fans-vent-fury-at-regan-and-doncaster.18090422

[magpie1892]

Interesting insight - thanks for sharing it. In other words the Daily Record thinks it is OK to sell newspapers by insulting people ("muppets" and "nonentities")? I get that the media is there to provoke debate and should provide reasoned perspectives - but your post suggests there is an institutionalised acceptance by the DR that insulting people to increase revenue is OK? Interesting corporate philosophy....:greengrin

Slight generalisation there, no?

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18771127

SFA helping them out again I see

[jgl07]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18771127

SFA helping them out again I see

No surprise to be honest. This will have to be resolved by FIFA, not that there is much doubt about the outcome. But the SFA would have been silly to stick their heads on the block and face possible legal action by Sevco if they approved the transfers.

[calmac12000]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18771127

SFA helping them out again I see
Plus ca change!
:embarrass

[jgl07]

I was looking at the Tennis Diary in the Herald for last week. This suggested that the SPL had appealed to the Wimbledon Committee to reinstate Rafa Nadal into the semi-final!

[Offside Trap]

Slight generalisation there, no?

Probably. But piecing the Burley article and your insight together gets me to that conclusion. :dunno:

Just don't quite see how calling SFL club chairmen muppets and nonentities is a particularly responsible way to generate revenue.

Anyhoooo....as others have pointed out, all it will do is further entrench opposition to Newco amongst those same chairmen....so in conclusion I have nothing but praise for the DR.:not worth

[magpie1892]

Magpie -

Would I be right in supposing that job protection is also to a certain extent, behind the statements that people like Chick Young and Jim Traynor have been coming out with?

It seems to me that without Rangers, these two in particular would run out of things to talk about. They might actually have to do some work to find out what goes on at places beyond Ibrox.

Seems also that people like Young and Traynor have lots of contacts in the Glasgow sporting world, specifically at Ibrox and with them gone or out of the way for some time, well, that's more than half of what they've got to say rendered totally irrelevant.

Yes and no. Yes in that They need Rangers (fair insight above, btw) so are trying to convince the rest of us we need Rangers too (might have worked, too, were it not for that pesky internet thing) and no in that they're just a couple of Rangers fuds. In a way, you'd think Young at least would take the hint; he's had his 15 minutes of fame and its been clear for some time he has less than zero to add to any football argument. Traynor, at least, has a bit of self-awareness about him.

[magpie1892]

Probably. But piecing the Burley article and your insight together gets me to that conclusion. :dunno:

Just don't quite see how calling SFL club chairmen muppets and nonentities is a particularly responsible way to generate revenue.

Anyhoooo....as others have pointed out, all it will do is further entrench opposition to Newco amongst those same chairmen....so in conclusion I have nothing but praise for the DR.:not worth

I certainly agree it is irresponsible, but, trust me on this one - some people like to read that *****. These are desperate times for Trinity Mirror.

I firmly agree with your 2nd point.

[IWasThere2016]

Told Arabs' ST sales are up on last season and selling very well since 'Gers were punted.

The DU-Dees derby friendly to be played this Saturday is also a sell-out.

Amazing they've no perished post Der Hun IMHO :wink: :greengrin

[HibbyAndy]

Told Arabs' ST sales are up on last season and selling very well since 'Gers were punted.

The DU-Dees derby friendly to be played this Saturday is also a sell-out.

Amazing they've no perished post Der Hun IMHO :wink: :greengrin



No danger.

[Famous Fiver]

Can I go back to Duff and Phelps for a moment?

According to reports, a director, who incidentally was previously completely unknown, stated, and it was minuted that 'Rangers' are worth £50 million plus.

This was the 'Rangers' that was sold to Charles Greene, on behalf of his'consortium' for £5.5 million.

Has anyone asked Duff and Phelps for their view on this?

As stated many times before on this thread Duff and Phelps should have been acting in the interests of the creditors.

Can the liquidators, BDO look at this?

Can the court which approved the appointment of the administrators look at this.

Perhaps CWG can give us his considered view?

Have we heard a comment from Chick Young or Jim Traynor on this point? It seems to be neatly under the radar.

It just seems to me that this is yet another aspect of the whole sorry episode which STINKS.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can I go back to Duff and Phelps for a moment?

According to reports, a director, who incidentally was previously completely unknown, stated, and it was minuted that 'Rangers' are worth £50 million plus.

This was the 'Rangers' that was sold to Charles Greene, on behalf of his'consortium' for £5.5 million.

Has anyone asked Duff and Phelps for their view on this?

As stated many times before on this thread Duff and Phelps should have been acting in the interests of the creditors.

Can the liquidators, BDO look at this?

Can the court which approved the appointment of the administrators look at this.

Perhaps CWG can give us his considered view?

Have we heard a comment from Chick Young or Jim Traynor on this point? It seems to be neatly under the radar.

It just seems to me that this is yet another aspect of the whole sorry episode which STINKS.

This was discussed about 300 pages ago... do keep up :greengrin

Actually, if you go back a few pages, it reared its head again over the weekend. The numpty of a director that said that has opened a can of squiggly things.

Basically, D&P should have got the best price possible for the assets... market value, in other words. Did they get that? It was arguable that Green was the only potential buyer, and therefore was the market. Now, though, the numpty director has said that they are worth a lot more than what they paid for them, barely a month later.

So... in short, BDO will be looking at this. They can challenge D&P/Sevco/Green to prove that the price paid was market value. If necessary, they can have the Court reverse the sale. If Sevco have sold the assets on since then, they can sue them for the profit.

[Andy74]

Can I go back to Duff and Phelps for a moment?

According to reports, a director, who incidentally was previously completely unknown, stated, and it was minuted that 'Rangers' are worth £50 million plus.

This was the 'Rangers' that was sold to Charles Greene, on behalf of his'consortium' for £5.5 million.

Has anyone asked Duff and Phelps for their view on this?

As stated many times before on this thread Duff and Phelps should have been acting in the interests of the creditors.

Can the liquidators, BDO look at this?

Can the court which approved the appointment of the administrators look at this.

Perhaps CWG can give us his considered view?

Have we heard a comment from Chick Young or Jim Traynor on this point? It seems to be neatly under the radar.

It just seems to me that this is yet another aspect of the whole sorry episode which STINKS.

I just hope every club in Scotland constinues to listen to the nonsense they come out with every day which shows the contempt that they hold Scottish football in. In the same meeting they confirmed looking at buying two English clubs to merge with.

I think the SPL clubs got more and more hacked off with talk of who Rangers were going to sign once they got back in the SPL and I'm sure the SFL clubs will take interest in the various claims which will no doubt keep coming.

Yep, I thought it was interesting too that they believe they have bought at least £50m of assets for £5.5million. It mirrors what a lot of people pointed out at the time and would hope the liquidators would be interested in reviewing it.

[Famous Fiver]

CWG

Thanks for your patient reply.

It is almost impossible due to time constraints for me to plough through all the posts so repetition is unfortunately going to happen from time time. Apologies.

I just feel this point should be catapulted to the top of ALL INTERESTED PARTIES' AGENDAS.

From this statement it appears 'Rangers' in whatever new incarnation they are in are still 'at it'.

Unbelievable.

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG

Thanks for your patient reply.

It is almost impossible due to time constraints for me to plough through all the posts so repetition is unfortunately going to happen from time time. Apologies.

I just feel this point should be catapulted to the top of ALL INTERESTED PARTIES' AGENDAS.

From this statement it appears 'Rangers' in whatever new incarnation they are in are still 'at it'.

Unbelievable.

:greengrin no need to apologise..... I'm here all week.

However, I have just seen that The Scotsman is running that story too.... so it's out there, and the questions will be asked. Maybe not by Traynor et al, but by the lawyers acting for the creditors. :cb

[degenerated]

Cracking article by STV summarising the current known feelings in the SFL, with all statements available etc.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/108222-rangers-newco-vote-sfl-clubs-outline-their-positions-on-the-issue/

The constant use of the phrase parachuting to div 1 gets right on Ma thruppenies. As sevco are not coming down from anywhere it should surely be replaced by catapulted to div 1.

[SurferRosa]

The constant use of the phrase parachuting to div 1 gets right on Ma thruppenies. As sevco are not coming down from anywhere it should surely be replaced by catapulted to div 1.

:faf:.......100% correct btw. :thumbsup:

[Spike Mandela]

Div 1 entry for Sevco is unthinkable. Vast swathes of media attention for their 'glorious adventure' culminating in their triumphal return to the SPL. Dread to think that we could actually go in the opposite direction:rolleyes:

Then in the SPL back to splashing the big wages and picking up all the top talent And arrogantly lording it over everyone with their lack of debt.

If this comes to pass sevco can't be blamed it will be the all authorities and we fans will have made the biggest own goal in our history. What is Petrie saying now? Has he acknowledged our disgust? At the moment with the hibs supporters club having given it's view Mr Petrie's silence speaks volumes.

All he needs to say is "sporting integrity is beyond purchase any New club should start in div 3". If Stewart Milne can say it I think our Chairmen owes us this at least. Unfortunately I don't believe he can but I live in hope.

[basehibby]

Can I go back to Duff and Phelps for a moment?

According to reports, a director, who incidentally was previously completely unknown, stated, and it was minuted that 'Rangers' are worth £50 million plus.

This was the 'Rangers' that was sold to Charles Greene, on behalf of his'consortium' for £5.5 million.

Has anyone asked Duff and Phelps for their view on this?

As stated many times before on this thread Duff and Phelps should have been acting in the interests of the creditors.

Can the liquidators, BDO look at this?

Can the court which approved the appointment of the administrators look at this.

Perhaps CWG can give us his considered view?

Have we heard a comment from Chick Young or Jim Traynor on this point? It seems to be neatly under the radar.

It just seems to me that this is yet another aspect of the whole sorry episode which STINKS.


:agree: - I've always thought that the transfer of Ibrox & Murray Park for £5.5M was nothing short of incredible and have been scratching my head ever since as to why the Newco-Huns keep on whinging when they've already been given such a phenomenal leg up by the administrators at the expense of the tax payer and other creditors. Now it seems that they are completely aware of the massive advantage they have already been given and actually see fit to boast about it in public!!!

It seems to me that Duff and Phelps should be under investigation for conspiracy to defraud the tax-payer or similar - and should be made to pay back their immense fees in recognition of the apparent fact that they have totally failed to live up to their primary responsibilities as administrators to secure the best possible deal for the creditors.

[lapsedhibee]

The constant use of the phrase parachuting to div 1 gets right on Ma thruppenies. As sevco are not coming down from anywhere it should surely be replaced by catapulted to div 1.

Or even "corrupted to Div 1".

[Captain Trips]

Div 1 entry for Sevco is unthinkable. Vast swathes of media attention for their 'glorious adventure' culminating in their triumphal return to the SPL. Dread to think that we could actually go in the opposite direction:rolleyes:

Then in the SPL back to splashing the big wages and picking up all the top talent And arrogantly lording it over everyone with their lack of debt.

If this comes to pass sevco can't be blamed it will be the all authorities and we fans will have made the biggest own goal in our history. What is Petrie saying now? Has he acknowledged our disgust? At the moment with the hibs supporters club having given it's view Mr Petrie's silence speaks volumes.

All he needs to say is "sporting integrity is beyond purchase any New club should start in div 3". If Stewart Milne can say it I think our Chairmen owes us this at least. Unfortunately I don't believe he can but I live in hope.

The SPL should then ban them from promotion for 3yrs as that is how lomg it takes to deservedly get into top league, to be in a position of getting into SPL bypassing 2 leagues is a disgrace, corrupt and goes against what football is about.

In theory a team can have 2 bad seasons and end up in Div 2 yet sevco do not kick a ball and might be in Div1, totally outrageous.

[StevieC]

So... in short, BDO will be looking at this. They can challenge D&P/Sevco/Green to prove that the price paid was market value. If necessary, they can have the Court reverse the sale. If Sevco have sold the assets on since then, they can sue them for the profit.

But what happens if, as it seems here, the assets are sold by Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland at a loss?

:dunno:

Can the liquidators null/void the sale of the assets? And if so, are they likely to?

:rolleyes:

[rcarter1]

Told Arabs' ST sales are up on last season and selling very well since 'Gers were punted.

The DU-Dees derby friendly to be played this Saturday is also a sell-out.

Amazing they've no perished post Der Hun IMHO :wink: :greengrin


Good stuff Dtd/Dundee! I was going to suggest that Hibs and Hearts had a derby to celebrate as well..

[lucky]

£5.5m for the Huns was the highest offer for them as such that's what they are worth

[Keith_M]

£5.5m for the Huns was the highest offer for them as such that's what they are worth Untrue, they were never put on the open market so that price has never been tested. They were passed on the Green as a condition of his CVA and never offered to any other party.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Apologies if I have missed this in last few hundered pages :greengrin

When are the SFA reviewing the punishment that was overturned by the COS ?

I thought expulsion was the next step up option wise after the transfer embargo was overturned.

Again, if I have missed it apologies :flag:

[Hibs Class]

£5.5m for the Huns was the highest offer for them as such that's what they are worth

If their break-up value was greater then they should have been broken up. I said several hundred pages ago I thought D&P were not acting in the best interests of creditors and nothing has changed my view.

[EdinMike]

Rangers fans, sorry. Sevco 5088 fans are now playing the sympathy card by stating THEY are the ones being bullied into playing in the first division, all they want is the third.

*The true reason being a GIRUY to other clubs in hoping they also go bust, not sympathy*

This is turning out to be a twist far greater than M Night Shyamalan could ever write...:rolleyes:

[calmac12000]

There's a thread on FF about a petition to get rid of Regan and Lawwell. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...r-purpose.html . One of the posts on the thread asks - can someone post this on the Hibs wed site as they are keep to get rid of Regan... Why single us out? - I'd have thought most clubs wanted him out. Of course our reasons for getting rid of him are different. We want rid of him as he is making a mockery of rules and procedures. They want rid of him mainly because he is trying to force them into Div 1 while they want Div 3 in order to 'cripple' (their words) other SPL clubs.

WTF would we wasn't rid of Lawall, for all he's not my favourite person and MIGHT be orchestrating things behind the scenes in favour of the Currant Buns no way will I sign a petition which seems to have been ill thought out and is essentially a Hun front. No offence to the poster, but I think you might've been conned.

[vanNISHtelroy]

An email reply someone on our website got from beloved chairman, amazing good guy etc etc.


Thank you for getting in touch Richard.

I understand your concerns but there are other issues in play at present which I am unable to put in the public domain.

Rest assured that my sole objective is the wellbeing of our club, unlike the objectives of others who have an agenda which will only be served by the failure of my endeavours.

I do not seek nor expect popular approval and I shall remain true to the principles which I believe will best serve Kilmarnock Football Club regardless of the criticism levelled against me.

Yours sincerely,

Michael Johnston.

Wonder what the other issues are? And he can't avoid another dig at (I'm guessing it's) the Killie Trust with the bit in bold.

[Brando7]

http://i.imgur.com/FUpaX.jpg :na na:

[Waxy]

A thought.
When the zombies eventually make it back to the SPL in a few years,wont there be a boom in Scottish football.
Couldn't the SFA/SPL/SFL hold out for a far bigger tv deal?
This slight downturn which is about to happen when the zombies go D3 could be equalized in 3years time by massive interest.
First ever Celtic v Sevco zombies would probably be the most watched ever.

Just a thought

Wouldn't happen if they go straight to D1 imo

[Eyrie]

The constant use of the phrase parachuting to div 1 gets right on Ma thruppenies. As sevco are not coming down from anywhere it should surely be replaced by catapulted to div 1.
I prefer wee_hibee's catapult for them ...

http://oi46.tinypic.com/k97wz.jpg

[The Baldmans Comb]

Apologies if I have missed this in last few hundered pages :greengrin

When are the SFA reviewing the punishment that was overturned by the COS ?

I thought expulsion was the next step up option wise after the transfer embargo was overturned.

Again, if I have missed it apologies :flag:

This has all been kicked into touch for the time being.

There is now only one objective in town for the SFA and the SPL and anyone in any authority in Scottish football that it to get Sevco into the SFL 1.

That is all that matters and nothing on this planet will be allowed to stop this happening least of all ridiculous little things like rules and regulations. In addition a whole new set of rules will have to be devised to allow a brand new company without any history to suddennly jump up 2 divisions from SFL 3 to SFL 1.

Once this mission has been accomplished trifiling little things such as the the EBT investigation and the Court of Session appeal will be revisited but this will all apply to the old club and not the new club and there will be no sanctions applied.:agree:

Carlsberg don't do corruption but.........

[ScottB]

This has all been kicked into touch for the time being.

There is now only one objective in town for the SFA and the SPL and anyone in any authority in Scottish football that it to get Sevco into the SFL 1.

That is all that matters and nothing on this planet will be allowed to stop this happening least of all ridiculous little things like rules and regulations. In addition a whole new set of rules will have to be devised to allow a brand new company without any history to suddennly jump up 2 divisions from SFL 3 to SFL 1.

Once this mission has been accomplished trifiling little things such as the the EBT investigation and the Court of Session appeal will be revisited but this will all apply to the old club and not the new club and there will be no sanctions applied.:agree:

Carlsberg don't do corruption but.........

Either way I doubt it's coming back.

The SFA are apparently trying to get Rangers to legally accept they are still the same club and accept anything punishment wise that's still to come to them as part of them getting a licence. Sounds fair enough, but considering the grand plan for putting them in SFL1 is to get them back into the SPL in a seasons time, I can only imagine that Transfer Bans, Suspensions or Expulsions will be off the table.

If they go into SFL3, Newco can tell the SFA to stuff their terms for the licence and start again. They will be a totally new club and not in any way answerable for the crimes of the old.


If this goes the way the authorities want it to, then I suspect we will get into a situation where Rangers are treated as largely the same club, but either can't be punished for the oldco's crimes, or will get nothing but token fines as further punishments.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Either way I doubt it's coming back.

The SFA are apparently trying to get Rangers to legally accept they are still the same club and accept anything punishment wise that's still to come to them as part of them getting a licence. Sounds fair enough, but considering the grand plan for putting them in SFL1 is to get them back into the SPL in a seasons time, I can only imagine that Transfer Bans, Suspensions or Expulsions will be off the table.

If they go into SFL3, Newco can tell the SFA to stuff their terms for the licence and start again. They will be a totally new club and not in any way answerable for the crimes of the old.


If this goes the way the authorities want it to, then I suspect we will get into a situation where Rangers are treated as largely the same club, but either can't be punished for the oldco's crimes, or will get nothing but token fines as further punishments.

I would completely agree, the first part of the mission is to get NewCo into SFL1. The second part of the mission is to get NewCo back into the SPL within one season.

Expulsions and suspensions are therefore completely off the planet as is a transfer ban hence what you are left with is some fines and perhaps some footballing debt.

If this doesn't look like working then somewhere throughout the season and maybe a wee leg up with +10 points or +25 points might help them along.:greengrin

It all reminds me of the playground game when you tossed up a coin and lost.....aggh the best of 3 then you lost again..... aggh best of 5..... then you lost again...... aggh first one to 10 then.

What a carve up.:agree:

[StevieC]

If they go into SFL3, Newco can tell the SFA to stuff their terms for the licence and start again. They will be a totally new club and not in any way answerable for the crimes of the old.

Although, the SFA/SFL could refuse a licence altogether until the meet the criteria of completed accounts, sound financial footing, etc.

I've said for a while now that allowing them into any division at the moment could be a disaster, given the current levels of instability at the club.
I'd have them out altogether for a season, for them to get their house in order, and then let them into the 3rd the following season.

[SteveHFC]

@slimjoegy: "****** the Rangers, they're dead" - The View, onstage now in Manchester :faf:

[ScottB]

Although, the SFA/SFL could refuse a licence altogether until the meet the criteria of completed accounts, sound financial footing, etc.

I've said for a while now that allowing them into any division at the moment could be a disaster, given the current levels of instability at the club.
I'd have them out altogether for a season, for them to get their house in order, and then let them into the 3rd the following season.

In a land of logic and integrity, that is the only solution.

At this stage I can't possibly imagine that they could prove they currently have the funds to complete the season. Though of course Alex Thomson tweeted that an SFA insider said to him that Rangers should never have been licensed for last season. Won't be holding my breath for any such actions here in the real world...

[Jim44]

WTF would we wasn't rid of Lawall, for all he's not my favourite person and MIGHT be orchestrating things behind the scenes in favour of the Currant Buns no way will I sign a petition which seems to have been ill thought out and is essentially a Hun front. No offence to the poster, but I think you might've been conned.

Nobody's been conned. Nobody's suggesting you sign their stupid petition. My simple point which I think is quite clear is, 'why were we singled out from all the supporters of the other 10 SPL clubs as being the most likely to sign.' Whether we actually share their desire to get rid of Regan is neither here nor there. Furthermore the reference to Lawwell is immaterial to my point.

[ScottB]

Nobody's been conned. Nobody's suggesting you sign their stupid petition. My simple point which I think is quite clear is, 'why were we singled out from all the supporters of the other 10 SPL clubs as being the most likely to sign.' Whether we actually share their desire to get rid of Regan is neither here nor there. Furthermore the reference to Lawwell is immaterial to my point.

Presumably because our Supporters Club Statement was in the papers today and nobody else's was?

[Pete]

@slimjoegy: "****** the Rangers, they're dead" - The View, onstage now in Manchester :faf:

Celtic fans from Dundee. People like them are part of the problem.

[SteveHFC]

In other news http://www.thescotti...reams-team. html (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4420369/In-your-dreams-team.html) :faf::faf::faf:

[jgl07]

[QUOTE=DarlingtonHibee;3289389]Apologies if I have missed this in last few hundered pages :greengrin

When are the SFA reviewing the punishment that was overturned by the COS ?

I thought expulsion was the next step up option wise after the transfer embargo was overturned.

Again, if I have missed it apologies [/QUOTE

No it was suspension for one year.

Expulsion was the next but one.

[Onion]

[QUOTE=DarlingtonHibee;3289389]Apologies if I have missed this in last few hundered pages :greengrin

When are the SFA reviewing the punishment that was overturned by the COS ?

I thought expulsion was the next step up option wise after the transfer embargo was overturned.

Again, if I have missed it apologies [/QUOTE

No it was suspension for one year.

Expulsion was the next but one.

Good point, what are they doing about that ?

Fear is as soon as they are "relegated to Div 1" the authorities will conveniently forget all about any other punishments with the claim that "they have learned their lesson and won't do it again". Or more likely we'll hear nothing more about it.

[Hibrandenburg]

In other news http://www.thescotti...reams-team. html (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4420369/In-your-dreams-team.html) :faf::faf::faf:
Class!

[Mon Dieu4]

Di stefano is still one of my all time favourite mentalists!!!!

[The Falcon]

Either way I doubt it's coming back.

The SFA are apparently trying to get Rangers to legally accept they are still the same club and accept anything punishment wise that's still to come to them as part of them getting a licence. Sounds fair enough, but considering the grand plan for putting them in SFL1 is to get them back into the SPL in a seasons time, I can only imagine that Transfer Bans, Suspensions or Expulsions will be off the table.

If they go into SFL3, Newco can tell the SFA to stuff their terms for the licence and start again. They will be a totally new club and not in any way answerable for the crimes of the old.


If this goes the way the authorities want it to, then I suspect we will get into a situation where Rangers are treated as largely the same club, but either can't be punished for the oldco's crimes, or will get nothing but token fines as further punishments.


The danger with that, from a Hun perspective, is that should they acknowledge a degree of responsibility for the crimes ( and they are crimes IMHO) of the old club then, I would imagine, Ticketus, for one, would be arguing that if Green agrees culpability for the "football debt" and pays them in full, then he equally cant deny that Rangers should pay Ticketus their money. I cant imagine the law will allow them to be selective as to who they pay and who they dont. Rangers themselves have already challenged the rule of the football authorities in a civil court so can't complain should others do the same.


They are either the Huns or they are not the Huns.

[lyonhibs]

In other news http://www.thescotti...reams-team. html (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4420369/In-your-dreams-team.html) :faf::faf::faf:

Am I the only one who doesn't find that remotely funny, but rather pretty sad, as Gazza's continuing cycle of self-delusion and mental instability plunges new depths??

[magpie1892]

In other news http://www.thescotti...reams-team. html (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4420369/In-your-dreams-team.html) :faf::faf::faf:

It's not nice to mock the afflicted (unless its a hun, of course, in which case 'open season').

Both men, in their own ways, are seriously ill.

[H18sry]

This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/morton-chairman-launches-scathing-attack-on-scottish-footballs-top-brass.18111915

[IWasThere2016]

This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/morton-chairman-launches-scathing-attack-on-scottish-footballs-top-brass.18111915

WOW!!! Donkeycaster and Regan MUST go! :agree:

[TrickyNicky]

This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/morton-chairman-launches-scathing-attack-on-scottish-footballs-top-brass.18111915

This whole sad tale has become a total embarrassment to Scottish Football, there are so many twist and turns due to so many personal agendas by so many people that it has completely turned the game in Scotland upside down and will struggle to find it's feet quickly.

You really couldn't write this script, it's just too far fetched and silly..

UEFA/ FIFA surely have no choice but to step in and deal with this immediately.

[Saorsa]

This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/morton-chairman-launches-scathing-attack-on-scottish-footballs-top-brass.18111915The only thing in that I would question is the bit about Longmuir, I dinnae think he's any less twisted than the rest.

[CropleyWasGod]

In other news http://www.thescotti...reams-team. html (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4420369/In-your-dreams-team.html) :faf::faf::faf:

Have to add my voice to those who find that sad, rather than funny.

[IWasThere2016]

Have to add my voice to those who find that sad, rather than funny.

Yup - he is clearly not a well man.

[PatHead]

This is an astonishing letter. Stuart Regan stands accused of outright lying to SFL and SPL clubs.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/morton-chairman-launches-scathing-attack-on-scottish-footballs-top-brass.18111915

If SFA were going to block Newco's entry to the SPL why did they have to have a vote at all?

Why have days, weeks and months been spent on this matter. (Not to mention CWG' and CC's remaining braincells being mashed!) The rules should have and should still be followed which would avoid this bringing of our national sport into disrepute. I am amazed that politicians, whilst not getting involved in decision making, have not demanded a swifter resolution. Other than initial utterances about keeping "Rangers in).

The worst thing about this whole saga is that an opportunity to revolutionise Scottish Football is going to be missed. All due to a determined attempt to keep "Rangers" (as the SFA,SPL and SFL see them) in either the SPL or SFL1.

This will set the game back another 20 years.

[Kojock]

This will set the game back another 20 years.

Could we not put the game back 40 years and bring back Turnbulls Tornadoes

[bawheid]

As each day unfolds Doncaster heaps further embarrassment upon the SPL with his total mismanagement of the situation. The Morton guy is probably right - he'll be losing the plot.

Doncaster is employed by the SPL clubs.

The SPL clubs should therefore remove Doncaster without delay, both for his sanity and the good of Scottish football.

David Longmuir is a good man by all accounts.

[Saorsa]

As each day unfolds Doncaster heaps further embarrassment upon the SPL with his total mismanagement of the situation. The Morton guy is probably right - he'll be losing the plot.

Doncaster is employed by the SPL clubs.

The SPL clubs should therefore remove Doncaster without delay, both for his sanity and the good of Scottish football.

David Longmuir is a good man by all accounts.IMO with their continued silence it can only be assumed that what he is doing, he is doing with their approval.

[Kojock]

As each day unfolds Doncaster heaps further embarrassment upon the SPL with his total mismanagement of the situation. The Morton guy is probably right - he'll be losing the plot.


I think you could be right. Here is the latest photo of Doncaster, the cracks are certainly appearing.

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