Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[AlbertK86]

It wasn't a friendly...

.. it was a joint training session.

:rolleyes:

Ah that old chestnut !!!!

[jdships]

So Charlie is selling shares in the club at £1m for 10%. 50% gets him his £5m back and he still has a majority shareholding.

That said, it's not a bad investment for the assets alone, never mind the early opportunity to double your money when Bomber Brown wades in with his consortium bid.

The problems will start to rise though, when it becomes apparent that there's not enough money to cover the running costs. It doesn't look like there are any "investors" with large disposable wads of cash ready to plough into the club. And why would any one of them do it, when the other investors aren't able to do the same?

Good post :thumbsup:
I have a friend who is a retired accountant who worked on many sequestration /liquidation cases and he has been saying that for weeks now. CASH FLOW
How much will they need to have in hand when they open up on a Monday morning ?
What crowds will they get at Ibrox in Div 3 ?
Can't see the 'hordes' traveling every second week on the Larne /Stranraer ferry to watch these games !
Remember one of the Sunday papers published an estimate ( in 2011) that some 30/35 % of Rangers ST holders lived outwith Scotland !!!!

[Gatecrasher]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391253_10150903281551525_1212590626_n.jpg

[AlbertK86]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391253_10150903281551525_1212590626_n.jpg

Class

[MrSmith]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAlPIHCoUYFRSuWXjcilKy3snncACAH ibpNjfBTJxihatO2eO-krVFkvDqhttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/norrie123/album5/loudentaverndukestdecember2007nm-1.jpg

Believe it or not ... I work along the road from that very pub!

[Hibercelona]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391253_10150903281551525_1212590626_n.jpg

:top marks

[Tyler Durden]

How is Gary Kenneth playing for lowly Airdrie now? Wasn't he in the full national squad hardly any time ago? :confused:

He's a free agent. Left Utd expecting to secure a move down south but has had no offers whatsoever. I'd take a punt on him - better than Hanlon IMO.

One for transfer rumour thread really.

[Ray_]

Good post :thumbsup:
I have a friend who is a retired accountant who worked on many sequestration /liquidation cases and he has been saying that for weeks now. CASH FLOW
How much will they need to have in hand when they open up on a Monday morning ?
What crowds will they get at Ibrox in Div 3 ?
Can't see the 'hordes' traveling every second week on the Larne /Stranraer ferry to watch these games !Remember one of the Sunday papers published an estimate ( in 2011) that some 30/35 % of Rangers ST holders lived outwith Scotland !!!!

Do you keep your own gate money in the SFL as you do in the SPL? If not, having to give away half of the bi-weekly takings from Ibrox would really hurt, can't see it being so though :(.

[jdships]

Do you keep your own gate money in the SFL as you do in the SPL? If not, having to give away half of the bi-weekly takings from Ibrox would really hurt, can't see it being so though :(.

I believe that is the case .

[Ray_]

I believe that is the case .

That's a shame, but at least the opposition fans will come out to see the newco play their teams, which will give the local teams a bit of a financial boost.

[stoobs]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAlPIHCoUYFRSuWXjcilKy3snncACAH ibpNjfBTJxihatO2eO-krVFkvDqhttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/norrie123/album5/loudentaverndukestdecember2007nm-1.jpg

When I Googled that pub I found this article about a man who painted it green by mistake.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4237842/Rangers-pub-is-painted-green.html

Last line is the best though.

"[The painter] said: “I’m colour blind and there was a mix up with the colour. It dried to a shade of green.”"

Who hires a colour blind painter to pick the colour?!

[Part/Time Supporter]

He's a free agent. Left Utd expecting to secure a move down south but has had no offers whatsoever. I'd take a punt on him - better than Hanlon IMO.

One for transfer rumour thread really.

Maybe the English are smarter than they look.

:greengrin

[leggeto]

do rangers keep their previous honours on record or do they start with a clean page ?:flag:

[Prof. Shaggy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18893159

£1million won't go very far!?

"I can't believe Rangers would fail to exist - it's beyond my brain capacity."

Not exactly top of the class, then.

[grunt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18893159

£1million won't go very far!?This article reads as though the guy is also getting a job at The Rangers.
I wonder if he's getting a salary?

[1875godsgift]

Bomber Brown and Bazza Ferguson ride to the rescue. Funny how no quotes from the crab though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18880822

Hope it manages a takeover as he has an iq of about 4. By the way did anyone else hear the rumour that Andy Goram charged £500 to speak at the Rangers Fans meeting a couple of weeks ago?

What a catchy name they've given themselves.

" Rangers for ( spare ) Change "

[1875godsgift]

This article reads as though the guy is also getting a job at The Rangers.
I wonder if he's getting a salary?

Looks more like he's getting a state of the art training facility for his youth enterprise for virtually **** all!

[jgl07]

Those numpties at the BBC have yet to update the fixtures. They still have Club 12 in the SPL and Dundee in SFL1. They also still have Dundee rather than Rangers away to Brechin in the first round of the Challenge Cup.

Are they still hanging on hoping for a reprieve?

The season starts a week on Saturday!

[WindyMiller]

Looks more like he's getting a state of the art training facility for his youth enterprise for virtually **** all!


:agree:

£1m up front, bring in youth players to supplement what they already have and get a share of any sell-on price.


IMO.

[LancsHibs]

Believe it or not ... I work along the road from that very pub!

Ever been in?:greengrin

[green glory]

I see the Huns got their lucrative TV deal for their first game against Brechin. The talk on Hunmedia has been about how Sky and ESPN etc are fighting over the game.

It's just been announced It's going to be shown live on BBC Alba.

Har har har!

[CentreLine]

So it looks like the 3rd Div clubs don't look in to Hibs.net for their advice. Shame really


Just some random thoughts and a romantic view of the potential positives.

This, to me, is what those of us that demanded sporting integrity wanted. I believe most of us did not want the death of a club but wanted the authorities to ensure that no club was allowed to get away with outright cheating. So we looked for Rangers FC, as was, to be made to pay its debt to all of Scottish Football, a debt they are clearly due as their years of cheating impacted on every other club. As it happens Rangers FC did die or at least will do when the club is liquidated very shortly.

So what do we have now? We have a new club, SEVCO 5088, that has ambitions to become a new Rangers. Although they can never be Rangers FC, that club is now consigned to history, they will become whatever their followers want them to be. Some people will even believe they are actually Rangers and nothing has changed. Well so be it that's just the reality.

If SEVCO 5088 agree to pay the footballing debts of Oldco and all of the other outstanding conditions currently demanded by the SFA they may then get to use Rangers in their name and kick off the season.

There can be no doubt that the broadcasting companies will be lining up to follow follow SEVCO 5088 in their attempt to establish themselves as new Rangers and to find some credibility in the game. I do believe that it will be compulsive viewing and, yes, entertaining too. I don’t think it will be as easy as some people assume.

But most importantly, this has to be a wonderful opportunity for the 3rd, 2nd and 1st Div, clubs, as well as Scottish football generally, to benefit in a very real way. Not one television camera, radio mic or newspaper hack should be allowed in to any of their grounds without a substantial fee being demanded. If the clubs stick together then they can achieve this and a lot more. They must ensure that they are not mere observers in this tasteless phenomenon. If they have any sense they will also have approached some major companies and collectively demanded significant fees for trackside advertising at every one of their games against SEVCO 5088. Pictures of these games will go all the way round the world and companies should pay handsomely for that kind of advertising. For once the “wee clubs” hold all the aces and this must not be allowed to be simply all about new Rangers.

Handled properly, every club in the country should benefit and there is a real chance that many more young people will be exposed to the game. Just maybe we will again see the tanner ba’ players coming through and football will once again become the game of the ordinary people instead of being hijacked by a couple of clubs.

All the time of course the liquidators will be forensically examining evrything that Rangers FC and individuals within the group have been up to. I think we can be sure that every club that did business with Rangers FC during that period will also be looked at, including of course our own club. There will be some serious dirty washing to be done in public. I don't really mind who is found with their hands in the till so long as it is not Hibs. And if we have a clean bill of health at the end of all that, just maybe people will appreciate what STF and RP have done for us.

[Just Alf]

—————————–

Following a online debate about the Duff and Phelps creditors’ report on the 10th of July it has come to light there is appears to be what could be a serious misdemeanour, or at best commercial misjudgement, with the catering accounts.

Food and beverage sales for the period since administration started = £300k approximately.

Food and beverage cost £900k approximately.

This is over a period of five months. This is from a club run under administration. This includes a time when everyone was off on holiday leave.

Over 12 months this leads close to £1.3million JUST IN FOOD AND BEVERAGES.

This to me looks like a bit of skulduggery. (Or some very fine dining going on!)

Actual figures from report are £388,973 Food & Beverages Sales under Income column then £991,155 Catering/Food and Beverage under Expenditure column.

My interpretation (without the detail or a degree in accountancy)would be that even allowing for a 0% profit on sales, the club spent, in just a 5 month period that includes off season when most employees would be gone, £602,182 on food & beverage over and above what they sold (to fans on match days).

I assume this expenditure must be on food for players and other employees. And over a 12-month period that would be a running cost of £1,445,238.

Of course, there may be a good explanation for this eg the pies were being baked for £3 each but sold for only £1 each.

Under such circumstances D&P would probably argue this would be in the best interest of creditors as it keep the pie shop open.

While we can joke about “who ate all the pies” this seems a remarkable loss caused to creditors under the rule of the administrators.

Maybe Mr Clark or Mr Whitehouse can explain, “Who ate all the pies?”

—————————–

from http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/piegate-the-latest-scandal-to-come-to-light-from-ibrox-guest-post-by-mick/#more-1566

:greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

Maybe Mr Clark or Mr Whitehouse can explain, “Who ate all the pies?”

—————————–

from http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/piegate-the-latest-scandal-to-come-to-light-from-ibrox-guest-post-by-mick/#more-1566

:greengrin

Hospitality.

[YehButNoBut]

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZuChEYeJRXQLH6WyajuDJ_m9CeBvPc D6VzHoimlnKSTbzdKRY

[heretoday]

What are the new Huns going to call themselves? I don't think I've seen any reference to this or am I being stupid?

[CropleyWasGod]

What are the new Huns going to call themselves? I don't think I've seen any reference to this or am I being stupid?

Rangers. Don't think there's much doubt about that; they bought the name.

[Sergio sledge]

Another interesting blog. Rangers fans would do well to read this.

http://oldpesky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tae-see-oursels-as-others-see-us.html?m=1

[poolman]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAlPIHCoUYFRSuWXjcilKy3snncACAH ibpNjfBTJxihatO2eO-krVFkvDqhttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/norrie123/album5/loudentaverndukestdecember2007nm-1.jpg



Even if I was like this I wouldn't step over the door

http://i46.tinypic.com/j9wnm1.jpg

[Paisley Hibby]

Another interesting blog. Rangers fans would do well to read this.

http://oldpesky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tae-see-oursels-as-others-see-us.html?m=1

Excellent, carefully considered and well written article. Unlike the first comment on it which apears to be from a typically ignorant Hun.

[Saorsa]

Another interesting blog. Rangers fans would do well to read this.

http://oldpesky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tae-see-oursels-as-others-see-us.html?m=1


They have shown themselves to be out of touch with their readers and listeners and, in the case of Gordon Smith, left most of us scratching our heads as to how this man ever landed the job of SFA Chief Executive.

Then we remember Stewart Regan is the current SFA Chief Executive and we reassure ourselves that being an imbecile isn’t necessarily a barrier when it comes to running our game.:agree:

[GloryGlory]

I see the Huns got their lucrative TV deal for their first game against Brechin. The talk on Hunmedia has been about how Sky and ESPN etc are fighting over the game.

It's just been announced It's going to be shown live on BBC Alba.

Har har har!

One does wonder how the publicly-funded BBC has not seen fit to televise this tournament in previous seasons - it does have a remit to cover all of Scottish current events and sport, although its OF bias has been apparent for years.

Wonder if there will be a broadcast deal for the SFL, as well. With Newco v tiny club (no disrespect) suddenly being considered the game of the day on Saturdays when ra Sellik are not playing, but the rest of the SPL is.

[Part/Time Supporter]

One does wonder how the publicly-funded BBC has not seen fit to televise this tournament in previous seasons - it does have a remit to cover all of Scottish current events and sport, although its OF bias has been apparent for years.

Wonder if there will be a broadcast deal for the SFL, as well. With Newco v tiny club (no disrespect) suddenly being considered the game of the day on Saturdays when ra Sellik are not playing, but the rest of the SPL is.

Alba has shown the last few Challenge Cup finals.

[GloryGlory]

Alba has shown the last few Challenge Cup finals.

Finals, not first rounds.

[Phil D. Rolls]

One does wonder how the publicly-funded BBC has not seen fit to televise this tournament in previous seasons - it does have a remit to cover all of Scottish current events and sport, although its OF bias has been apparent for years.

Wonder if there will be a broadcast deal for the SFL, as well. With Newco v tiny club (no disrespect) suddenly being considered the game of the day on Saturdays when ra Sellik are not playing, but the rest of the SPL is.

We are currently at 600+ pages on this thread. I think given that level of public interest, the BBC can't do much else.

[Hibercelona]

Another interesting blog. Rangers fans would do well to read this.

http://oldpesky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tae-see-oursels-as-others-see-us.html?m=1

Rangers fans would do well to read.

[Saorsa]

One does wonder how the publicly-funded BBC has not seen fit to televise this tournament in previous seasons - it does have a remit to cover all of Scottish current events and sport, although its OF bias has been apparent for years.

Wonder if there will be a broadcast deal for the SFL, as well. With Newco v tiny club (no disrespect) suddenly being considered the game of the day on Saturdays when ra Sellik are not playing, but the rest of the SPL is.The BBC only funds about a quarter of ALBA's budget and broadcasts the channel. Most of the funding comes from MG ALBA.

[Lungo--Drom]

I might watch it, in the hope the dirty ***** get a right good thrashing :agree: :cb:


I see the Huns got their lucrative TV deal for their first game against Brechin. The talk on Hunmedia has been about how Sky and ESPN etc are fighting over the game.

It's just been announced It's going to be shown live on BBC Alba.

Har har har!

[Lungo--Drom]

With Government cut backs due to the recession there is no way there would be enough Learning Support staff to read it to them all :faf:


Rangers fans would do well to read.

[greenginger]

One does wonder how the publicly-funded BBC has not seen fit to televise this tournament in previous seasons - it does have a remit to cover all of Scottish current events and sport, although its OF bias has been apparent for years.

Wonder if there will be a broadcast deal for the SFL, as well. With Newco v tiny club (no disrespect) suddenly being considered the game of the day on Saturdays when ra Sellik are not playing, but the rest of the SPL is.

The BBC in Scotland along with the rest of the sports media have been totally obsessed with all things Rangers and Celtic for as long as I can remember and things won't change of their own accord.

Fan power forced the Clubs to deal properly with the Liquidated Remains of the football club formally known as Rangers. Fan power should turn its focus on the BBC hierarchy to force a flush-out of tainted sports-jurnos and pundits.

[hibs0666]

The BBC in Scotland along with the rest of the sports media have been totally obsessed with all things Rangers and Celtic for as long as I can remember and things won't change of their own accord.

Fan power forced the Clubs to deal properly with the Liquidated Remains of the football club formally known as Rangers. Fan power should turn its focus on the BBC hierarchy to force a flush-out of tainted sports-jurnos and pundits.

Fan-power is probably better focussed on buying season tickets and supporting their teams. :wink:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Even if I was like this I wouldn't step over the door

http://i46.tinypic.com/j9wnm1.jpg


It's a Weegie hut, filled with every type of uneducated bigot, from FF poster to flute band regular. An affront to progressive and tolerant values the world over. Only in west Scotland could it keep going.


"We are the people". To what extent exactly do they wish to sound Nazi?

[Crazyhorse]

Fan-power is probably better focussed on buying season tickets and supporting their teams. :wink:

They can do both

[Lungo--Drom]

Such over the top promotion of imagery is usually a sign that they are actually unsure, unsettled or even deep down fearful of their place. In recent years if you go down the Falls Road in Belfast you might see three or four tri-colours flying but if you go down the Shankill Road (shudder :paranoid: ) it is still wall to wall paraphenalia, union jacks, blue paint, orange paint, fat over steroided middle aged men in Hun tops standing smoking outside 'loyalist' pubs with their arms totally covered in 'loyalist' tattoos. It is all about what psychologists call 'normalisation' or in the Huns case (ab)normalisation :lolrangers:


It's a Weegie hut, filled with every type of uneducated bigot, from FF poster to flute band regular. An affront to progressive and tolerant values the world over. Only in west Scotland could it keep going.


"We are the people". To what extent exactly do they wish to sound Nazi?

[Lungo--Drom]

Yup :agree: and ironically one of the many symbols that have been hijacked by 'loyalists' over the years for their own twisted use is the not the swastika but in fact the Star of David, the most well known symbol of Judaism. The one that pisses me off the most, as a son of Tyrone, is the hijacking of the Red Hand of Ulster which was a heraldic emblem used to represent not only the Province / Kingdoms of Ulster but originally the County Tyrone, more specifically the O'Neills. You can't wear a Tyrone GAA top in Scotland without causing complete and utter consternation and confusion all in one instant, white with a red collar and a big red hand on the badge yet it is as Timmy as a bag of Complete Timmyosity :greengrin


..."We are the people". To what extent exactly do they wish to sound Nazi?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Ally McCoist has an agreement with St Mirren that Gary Teale will sign for Newco RFC if they escape embargo #freetransfer

Another ambitious player!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yup :agree: and ironically one of the many symbols that have been hijacked by 'loyalists' over the years for their own twisted use is the not the swastika but in fact the Star of David, the most well known symbol of Judaism. The one that pisses me off the most, as a son of Tyrone, is the hijacking of the Red Hand of Ulster which was a heraldic emblem used to represent not only the Province / Kingdoms of Ulster but originally the County Tyrone, more specifically the O'Neills. You can't wear a Tyrone GAA top in Scotland without causing complete and utter consternation and confusion all in one instant, white with a red collar and a big red hand on the badge yet it is as Timmy as a bag of Complete Timmyosity :greengrin


They equate Northern Ireland with Israel, though of the couse the two are hardly comparable outwith the seizure of land without democratic mandate. Don't ever tell them Ulster actually has nine counties, it might pose difficult questions. Such a suggestion is, of course, the ramblings of the Taig and means I am a de facto 'terrorist'. :faf:

[blaikie]

Ally McCoist has an agreement with St Mirren that Gary Teale will sign for Newco RFC if they escape embargo #freetransfer

Another ambitious player!

3rd division is about his level to be fair!

[calmac12000]

They equate Northern Ireland with Israel, though of the couse the two are hardly comparable outwith the seizure of land without democratic mandate. Don't ever tell them Ulster actually has nine counties, it might pose difficult questions. Such a suggestion is, of course, the ramblings of the Taig and means I am a de facto 'terrorist'. :faf:

Shame on you, sir. you could be doing with reading the "Sun" for a year or two, in order to removes such seditious thoughts from your brain!:top marks

[Hibernia&Alba]

Shame on you, sir. you could be doing with reading the "Sun" for a year or two, in order to removes such seditious thoughts from your brain!:top marks

Richard Littlejohn and Trevor Kavanagh are my heroes :greengrin. Mon The Sun:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Today is the Deadline for Chuckie to get the 'fit and proper person' details to the SFA to try and get their licence to play this coming season. I wonder if they'll make it.

[poolman]

" The Rangers " ( unseeded :greengrin ) are at home to East Fife in League cup draw :na na:

[Onion]

" The Rangers " ( unseeded :greengrin ) are at home to East Fife in League cup draw :na na:

Think it's going to be brilliant for the wee teams. They will get more exposure in the next 2-3 years than they've ever had, and I cannae wait to hear some of the songs they make up just for Der Hun. Gonna be some great moments :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=232189

[1875godsgift]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=232189

Nice bunch over there, aren't they?

[blaikie]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=232189

Tad bitter these Fourth Lanark fans!!

[matty_f]

Tad bitter these Fourth Lanark fans!!

I would probably be that bitter if my club died and I had to support a new one as well. :agree:

[Keith_M]

Any news on whether they met the deadline for provision of supporting documents to meet SFA membership?





Cheers, Keith. :thumbsup:

[calmac12000]

Tad bitter these Fourth Lanark fans!!

Nice to see the Loyal Legions are not wasting their energies on bitterness or negativity!:cb

[WindyMiller]

How many divisions are the Huns playing in next season?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/

[Hibercelona]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=232189

Surely that site has to be some kind of wind up.

There is just no way... :bitchy:

[Hibercelona]

How many divisions are the Huns playing in next season?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/

They still haven't put Rangers in the 3rd division table yet and are adamant that "club 12" hasn't be decided yet. :faf:

Is it really that difficult for them to accept?

[WindyMiller]

SFL teams getting wise to the possibilities.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18891279

Good on them. :aok:

[Golden Bear]

East of Scotland league side Hawick Royal Albert's planned glamour friendly against newco Rangers tomorrow has been postponed because the new Club's membership details have still to be finalised with the SFA.

Dear oh dear - how the mighty have fallen.


:tee hee:

[Billy Whizz]

Breaking news on Bbc news Scotland. Rangers have accepted a one year transfer embargo. More to follow

[blaikie]

Breaking news on Bbc news Scotland. Rangers have accepted a one year transfer embargo. More to follow

No doubt starting 01/09/2012

[CallumLaidlaw]

No doubt starting 01/09/2012

Yip, so an absolute waste of time

[Dalkeith]

Breaking news on Bbc news Scotland. Rangers have accepted a one year transfer embargo. More to follow

This embargo will begin on 1st September 2012 and end on 31st August 2013.

[blaikie]

Yip, so an absolute waste of time

Short term yes, but the whole of next summer without signing anyone? Will be tough hopefully!

[CropleyWasGod]

Yip, so an absolute waste of time

How so?

They barely have a team just now, so it's only right that they are allowed to build a basic one. They can't afford to buy players, and they can't afford to pay high wages. If they do either, they will be bust again by Christmas.

[snooky]

This embargo will begin on 1st September 2012 and end on 31st August 2013.

Haven't Rangers been punished enough? :whistle:

[Ozyhibby]

Short term yes, but the whole of next summer without signing anyone? Will be tough hopefully!

They will be able to sign players on the 1st Sept as there is no transfer window in the lower leagues.

[WindyMiller]

How so?

They barely have a team just now, so it's only right that they are allowed to build a basic one. They can't afford to buy players, and they can't afford to pay high wages. If they do either, they will be bust again by Christmas.

Am I correct in thinking that an embargo means players coming in and out?

[blaikie]

They will be able to sign players on the 1st Sept as there is no transfer window in the lower leagues.

Seems unfair on the other teams, Hopefully John Jobbie Bomber keeps telling the masses to boycott the season tickets!

[lucky]

It's time to move on and concentrate on our own club. Scottish football needs to start playing rather than ripping itself apart

[grunt]

Am I correct in thinking that an embargo means players coming in and out?I'd be surprised if the SFA could stop players deciding their own futures and leaving Sevco.

[bruno]

They will be able to sign players on the 1st Sept as there is no transfer window in the lower leagues.
I think it more to do with them not being allowed to register anyone after the 1st Sept so even out of contract players will be out of their reach

[Hibercelona]

How so?

They barely have a team just now, so it's only right that they are allowed to build a basic one. They can't afford to buy players, and they can't afford to pay high wages. If they do either, they will be bust again by Christmas.

I'm not so sure if they're as skint as we'd all like to believe.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it more to do with them not being allowed to register anyone after the 1st Sept so even out of contract players will be out of their reach

I meant 1st Sept 2013.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not so sure if they're as skint as we'd all like to believe.

Where is the money going to come from?

Season Tickets? Walk-ups? These famous investors that CG told us all about?

[WindyMiller]

I'd be surprised if the SFA could stop players deciding their own futures and leaving Sevco.

:doh:

Aye, right enough.


:foot:

[Ozyhibby]

While I think this is a bit of a let off for them, I'm not too fussed really. Most important thing now is that they are stripped of any titles they have won while cheating and a giant black mark against their name forever.
By the time they get back to the SPL hopefully the gang of eleven will have changed things to such an extent that the dominance of the old firm will be a thing of the past.

[EuanH78]

They will be able to sign players on the 1st Sept as there is no transfer window in the lower leagues.

Maybe so, though as the SFA will refuse to register them the end effect is...they cant sign players they want to play after 1st Sept.

[Hibercelona]

Where is the money going to come from?

Season Tickets? Walk-ups? These famous investors that CG told us all about?

Well they seem to be looking at fairly high profile signings.

So money must be rolling in from somewhere.

[ScottB]

Hmmm so while the ban allows players to be signed this summer, that'll be them till January 2014?

[Hibs Class]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=232189


That site is brilliant - every post oozes with hurt, anger and victim-hood. Folk talk about decent hun fans, which I know there are, but their lowest amoebic bigoted paranoid followers gather there and it's a joy to watch their pain and utter, utter helplessness.

[StevieC]

Hmmm so while the ban allows players to be signed this summer, that'll be them till January 2014?

Ozyhibby seems to be suggesting that they could sign new players at the tail end of next summer. Albeit after the season has started, but they could effectively shop next summer and have them lined up ready for September the 1st, if what Ozyhibby says is correct.
If so, then they would effectively only miss out on signings this January??

:dunno:

Not that I'm too fussed about it personally, but I'm guessing the main story behind the headline is that Newco have accepted the punishments and footballing debts of Oldco.

[ballengeich]

Where is the money going to come from?

Season Tickets? Walk-ups? These famous investors that CG told us all about?

Assuming that some of the top-level players who agreed to TUPE thinking they'd be in division 1 can be sold, the transfer fees will be easily enough to pay signing-on amounts for a team capable of being at the top of division 2 in January 2014. Livingston showed that virtually any full-time team can win divisions 2 and 3 against the part-time sides at that level.

Paying wages and maintaining Ibrox might be more of a problem, but I think this is a major success for Rangers. Effectively the SFA have totally backed down on the embargo.

[CentreLine]

Assuming that some of the top-level players who agreed to TUPE thinking they'd be in division 1 can be sold, the transfer fees will be easily enough to pay signing-on amounts for a team capable of being at the top of division 2 in January 2014. Livingston showed that virtually any full-time team can win divisions 2 and 3 against the part-time sides at that level.

Paying wages and maintaining Ibrox might be more of a problem, but I think this is a major success for Rangers. Effectively the SFA have totally backed down on the embargo.

When is an embargo not an embargo? When it involves the SFA it seems. Every time I just about get round to thinking that, just maybe, there is a chance Scottish football can drag itself out of this mess and give the impression it has the tiniest bit of credibility and is not corrupt, along comes another kick in the teeth. If only the shower in charge of our game had shown the slightest sign of having a pair at any stage of this pantomime........well they have just stuck the tin lid on it. What a joke.

[Jonnyboy]

Well they seem to be looking at fairly high profile signings.

So money must be rolling in from somewhere.

Must have missed this. Who are they being linked with (other than a part time painter and decorator fae Tranent) :greengrin

[Hibs Class]

Assuming that some of the top-level players who agreed to TUPE thinking they'd be in division 1 can be sold, the transfer fees will be easily enough to pay signing-on amounts for a team capable of being at the top of division 2 in January 2014. Livingston showed that virtually any full-time team can win divisions 2 and 3 against the part-time sides at that level.

Paying wages and maintaining Ibrox might be more of a problem, but I think this is a major success for Rangers. Effectively the SFA have totally backed down on the embargo.


When is an embargo not an embargo? When it involves the SFA it seems. Every time I just about get round to thinking that, just maybe, there is a chance Scottish football can drag itself out of this mess and give the impression it has the tiniest bit of credibility and is not corrupt, along comes another kick in the teeth. If only the shower in charge of our game had shown the slightest sign of having a pair at any stage of this pantomime........well they have just stuck the tin lid on it. What a joke.

Agree completely. The fact that the BBC story is headed "Sevco will accept transfer embargo" and goes on to report"... following a week of negotiations between Green's consortium and the SFA, Scottish football's governing body revealed an agreement..." says it all. New huns but same old corruption.

[Hibercelona]

Must have missed this. Who are they being linked with (other than a part time painter and decorator fae Tranent) :greengrin

A part time painter that ran the brush over our fulltime squad time and time again. :wink:

If Black goes there, then they must have stupid cash for a 3rd division side.

If he had to take up part time painting because he wasn't getting his full wages at hahaHearts, then I can't see him signing for a club who would offer him 3rd division wages (unless of course, they have stupid cash coming in from somewhere)

[Jonnyboy]

A part time painter that ran the brush over our fulltime squad time and time again. :wink:

If Black goes there, then they must have stupid cash for a 3rd division side.

If he had to take up part time painting because he wasn't getting his full wages at hahaHearts, then I can't see him signing for a club who would offer him 3rd division wages (unless of course, they have stupid cash coming in from somewhere)

That he did but it seems unlikely he'll join the new huns so who are the other high profile signings they're linked with?

[lapsedhibee]

That he did but it seems unlikely he'll join the new huns so who are the other high profile signings they're linked with?

Gazza, for one or two.

[Jonnyboy]

Gazza.

:greengrin

[SteveHFC]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391346_3721087980711_973055803_n.jpg

[Jonnyboy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391346_3721087980711_973055803_n.jpg

:tee hee:

[Saorsa]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391346_3721087980711_973055803_n.jpg:thumbsup:

[Hibby Mike]

Ole!

[vanNISHtelroy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391346_3721087980711_973055803_n.jpg

Cheers, I'd heard about that but not seen a pic yet...surely the percentages are wrong, closer to 100 no? :top marks

[Jonnyboy]

Cheers, I'd heard about that but not seen a pic yet...surely the percentages are wrong, closer to 100 no? :top marks

Nope it's accurate. The other 2% put the word total in front of it :greengrin

[jonty]

How many divisions are the Huns playing in next season?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/


They still haven't put Rangers in the 3rd division table yet and are adamant that "club 12" hasn't be decided yet. :faf:

Is it really that difficult for them to accept?

lets set it straight for them

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8445&d=1342445725 (http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8445&d=1342445725)

[degenerated]

Gazza, for one or two.

Get the Andy gorams signed up and that's nearly half a team :agree:

[vanNISHtelroy]

Nope it's accurate. The other 2% put the word total in front of it :greengrin

Of course! I thank my learned friend for pointing that out! :wink:

[down-the-slope]

lets set it straight for them

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8445&d=1342445725 (http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8445&d=1342445725)

been moaning about the same thing - its so out of date / in denial its not true.....and yet if you look at Div3 page its all about them

I would love them not to get promoted...:greengrin wonder if we should loan some decent U21's out to dive 3 sides with a chance

[CropleyWasGod]

Assuming that some of the top-level players who agreed to TUPE thinking they'd be in division 1 can be sold, the transfer fees will be easily enough to pay signing-on amounts for a team capable of being at the top of division 2 in January 2014. Livingston showed that virtually any full-time team can win divisions 2 and 3 against the part-time sides at that level.

Paying wages and maintaining Ibrox might be more of a problem, but I think this is a major success for Rangers. Effectively the SFA have totally backed down on the embargo.

Might? It's their fundamental problem. It's been said before on here, but the Cash Flow is just not there IMO.

I don't think this is a "major success". If they had been forced to play kids, on low wages, they would have been able to build up slowly, and get used to cutting their cloth, as all other clubs do. This way puts the temptation there for them to buy success, and I just don't think they have the means to sustain that.

[AlbertK86]

This was a guarantee

Ok Sevco buy yer self a team just now to ensure you get back up then we'll put a ban on........ Couldnae make it up

SFA - corrupt and rotten to the core

Mr Regan - I'm sorry Chas that I broke ma promise about div 1 so I'll let you have a chance to rebuild before we put your ban in place as a wee apology. Now would you like me to rub yer back or shine your shoes next

[down-the-slope]

Might? It's their fundamental problem. It's been said before on here, but the Cash Flow is just not there IMO.

I don't think this is a "major success". If they had been forced to play kids, on low wages, they would have been able to build up slowly, and get used to cutting their cloth, as all other clubs do. This way puts the temptation there for them to buy success, and I just don't think they have the means to sustain that.


I think that Green wanted Div 1 with little sanctions...quick sticking plaster job and then share issue to make him big wedge (under fan ownership smokescreen)

Plan B Div 3 with transfer embargo...sorry fans...can't sign anyone..SFA/Other clubs have picked on us...show your support / stick your fingers up by buying ST's etc and we will fight our way back (low over heads / decent income = cash building up/ syphoned off)


The way it has worked out will not suit Green at all as the hordes will expect signings as sign of faith...

[ballengeich]

Might? It's their fundamental problem. It's been said before on here, but the Cash Flow is just not there IMO.

I don't think this is a "major success". If they had been forced to play kids, on low wages, they would have been able to build up slowly, and get used to cutting their cloth, as all other clubs do. This way puts the temptation there for them to buy success, and I just don't think they have the means to sustain that.

While I agree that cashflow is a problem for them, to buy success they don't have to spend much over the two windows in the next four in which they're now allowed to buy players. All they have to do is assemble a team of the quality that Livingston had in the 2010-11 season, and I repeat my suggestion that they can easily do that from transfer fees payable for a couple of Goian, Bocanegra etc. One transfer fee of £250,000 will pay a season's wages for half a team at the level needed to reach division 1 (there might even be enough left to allow the PAYE to be forwarded to HMRC).

While the underlying gap between income and spending will still be there, a winning team will attract more orcs to Ibrox and buy time for Green and the club to regroup. I still have doubts about Rangers' ability to get through the coming system, but I think that today's decision will alleviate their difficulties.

[CropleyWasGod]

While I agree that cashflow is a problem for them, to buy success they don't have to spend much over the two windows in the next four in which they're now allowed to buy players. All they have to do is assemble a team of the quality that Livingston had in the 2010-11 season, and I repeat my suggestion that they can easily do that from transfer fees payable for a couple of Goian, Bocanegra etc. One transfer fee of £250,000 will pay a season's wages for half a team at the level needed to reach division 1 (there might even be enough left to allow the PAYE to be forwarded to HMRC).

While the underlying gap between income and spending will still be there, a winning team will attract more orcs to Ibrox and buy time for Green and the club to regroup. I still have doubts about Rangers' ability to get through the coming system, but I think that today's decision will alleviate their difficulties.

Now you're just being silly.:greengrin

As an aside, did Goian and Bocanegra actually transfer to Seb Coe? IIRC, there is a period during which they can elect not to.

[ballengeich]

Now you're just being silly.:greengrin

As an aside, did Goian and Bocanegra actually transfer to Seb Coe? IIRC, there is a period during which they can elect not to.

I don't know. I've assumed that the players who're still around have accepted the transfer by receiving pay for June, but that could be either factually or legally inaccurate.

I still think that deferring the transfer ban allows Rangers to assemble a team that will win divisions in the next two seasons with expenditure they can cover from football income. This makes their ultimate recovery more likely. Let's hope that if they return to the SPL they'll find an organisation that has voting and income distribution procedures that are not designed to benefit only the top two clubs.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't know. I've assumed that the players who're still around have accepted the transfer by receiving pay for June, but that could be either factually or legally inaccurate.

.

I think that apostrophe is inappropriate. :greengrin

[CallumLaidlaw]

I have to say, I'm slightly confused by players like Black, Beattie, sandaza that are pimping themselves to a SFL3 club.
I can't see how this club are able to match wages of SFL1 and SPL clubs, and also why these players would want to play at a level much lower than they are capable of. They could play at SPL level for the next few years before moving to sevco. And some of these players may also have a chance at playing for Scotland (especially if they have a Levein connection). Yet they are grovelling to a club that are in the shadows of a club that didn't pay taxes, other clubs, etc. I am baffled!!

[jgl07]

I don't know. I've assumed that the players who're still around have accepted the transfer by receiving pay for June, but that could be either factually or legally inaccurate.

I still think that deferring the transfer ban allows Rangers to assemble a team that will win divisions in the next two seasons with expenditure they can cover from football income. This makes their ultimate recovery more likely. Let's hope that if they return to the SPL they'll find an organisation that has voting and income distribution procedures that are not designed to benefit only the top two clubs.

I suspect that any of the players who are on big wages will be 'ecouraged' to leave. There will not be the cash flow to sustain this in the Third Division particularly with the pressure on Green to sell to a 'Rangers minded' consortium. Rangers will not be able to afford to throw money to gain promotion as this could extend their three year European ban. I would guess that the exceptions given in the first couple of reporting periods for Financial Fair Play will have expired by then and Rangers will have to break even.

In some respects the transfer ban may be good for Green as it will remove the pressure from the fans to spend big. Rangers should be able to assumble a side capable of winning SFL3 based on the few senior pros including Kirk Broadfoot, Lee McCulloch, etc augmented by some under-18 players. They may be able to post a profit in the first two years allowing scope for spending big to get out of SFL1 and buil a competitive SPL side.

[Hibercelona]

They must be getting wads of cash from somewhere if they are attracting such players.

I honestly don't buy into the idea that they are completely skint. I believe they are getting short term hand outs from sources that have plenty to gain from it in the long run.

A strong Rangers in the SPL is a huge financial benefit to some companies.

[calumb]

They must be getting wads of cash from somewhere if they are attracting such players.

I honestly don't buy into the idea that they are completely skint. I believe they are getting short term hand outs from sources that have plenty to gain from it in the long run.

A strong Rangers in the SPL is a huge financial benefit to some companies.

maybe "newco" is continuing from "oldco" and have decided not to bother themselves with paying any taxes

[muirhousehibby]

I have to say, I'm slightly confused by players like Black, Beattie, sandaza that are pimping themselves to a SFL3 club.
I can't see how this club are able to match wages of SFL1 and SPL clubs, and also why these players would want to play at a level much lower than they are capable of. They could play at SPL level for the next few years before moving to sevco. And some of these players may also have a chance at playing for Scotland (especially if they have a Levein connection). Yet they are grovelling to a club that are in the shadows of a club that didn't pay taxes, other clubs, etc. I am baffled!!


Is football all about trophies,not any more it isn’t thats for sure. Players who have plenty money like van persie etc all want trophies other pro players who have cash but not enough for life ,want big money moves rather then trophies. Rangers paying higher wages in div3 is why everyone has mortgages and family's.

[Sean1875]

Genuinely wouldn't surprise me if there were still several players at Sevco who walk straight into the national set up. Theyv'e got more chance than anyone here anyways :rolleyes:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Is football all about trophies,not any more it isn’t thats for sure. Players who have plenty money like van persie etc all want trophies other pro players who have cash but not enough for life ,want big money moves rather then trophies. Rangers paying higher wages in div3 is why everyone has mortgages and family's.

Can they really be paying more than SPL clubs tho?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Genuinely wouldn't surprise me if there were still several players at Sevco who walk straight into the national set up. Theyv'e got more chance than anyone here anyways :rolleyes:

Under any other manager I would say no chance. But under Levein, nothing surprises me!

[muirhousehibby]

Can they really be paying more than SPL clubs tho?

Don't see why not they'll still have a massive fan base and perhaps only sign a few players on 10.000 a week rest could well be made up off youngsters and older pro who are perhaps in last few years of playing. Thats the root i'd try and perhaps go down if i owed a club.


is there a chance they have had investor's who were not going to feed rfc money for it to go straight to debts and tax man but now seeing as theyre starting a fresh all that money which folk have held back could now go straight ito club for investment without being touched.

[J-C]

Have they not just had some investment from some business fans?

[Mark79]

They have no debt near enough now and will probably get 30k in ibrox on home games. That sort of attendance will bring in enough to pay players like black, sandaza etc whilst still allowing them to save.

The biggest challenge for them is getting the players to play at that level for the next three years. If you are black or sandaza (26/27 years old?) and sign a three year deal then by the time they win the 1st (assuming back to back league titles) then these guys are hitting their 30s. Now I know thats not past it but you know that players can sometimes just take a nose dive at a certain age and may not be good enough for the SPL by then.

To me I cant understand wanting to sign for them. Unless you have a desire to play in the ramsdens cup.

[Geo_1875]

Can they really be paying more than SPL clubs tho?

They're maybe not paying more than SPL clubs but none of the players mentioned have a contract with an SPL club.

[Onion]

IMHO going by the amount of coverage Newco have had on Hibs.net and in the media, RFC are going to be the only story in town for the next 4 or 5 years. The SPL will be little more than a side show. Their signings, their wins, their defeats, their progress, their legal battles etc etc will dominate everything. Celtic winning the SPL will mean nothing.

It will be RFC's recovery, while still playing at Ibrox, and ultimately to their first win over celtic that will dominate.

[Kaiser1962]

Don't see why not they'll still have a massive fan base and perhaps only sign a few players on 10.000 a week rest could well be made up off youngsters and older pro who are perhaps in last few years of playing. Thats the root i'd try and perhaps go down if i owed a club.


is there a chance they have had investor's who were not going to feed rfc money for it to go straight to debts and tax man but now seeing as theyre starting a fresh all that money which folk have held back could now go straight ito club for investment without being touched.


Should their income drop by 86% they would still have a more money per season than us.

[oregonhibby]

Rangers will still be able to out pay (legally) anyone other than Celtic. There will also be the gamble of a quicker return through re-organisation.

[Finbar]

They're still doing it!

So Sevco get a 12 month player regstration ban, which has been shown in court to be unlawful. The alternative to the ban was probably suspension from the league.

SPL say they'll let Sevco play if they get a share of their media rights. So basically Sevco get to buy a place in the SFL buy paying SPL clubs.

The whole thing stinks.

I hate this attitude that SPL, SFA, whoever can just make up rules as they go along, especially when whoever is doing the negotiating have all sorts of hidden agendas. Doing what's good for the game, etc.

There is no sporting integrity in Scottish football, the game is broken.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Ok then, why would they WANT to be paying ridiculous wages at this point. Surely they bring players that are good enough for the 3rd and 2nd division, then build again in preparation for the first with the money theyve saved over the previous 2 years

[oregonhibby]

I imagine the pride of being RANGERS.

[Jim44]

Ok then, why would they WANT to be paying ridiculous wages at this point. Surely they bring players that are good enough for the 3rd and 2nd division, then build again in preparation for the first with the money theyve saved over the previous 2 years

They don't have to pay ridiculous wages, but wages that are as good as SPL wages. Their income will allow this. They have to get players of the quality to guarantee they win every game easily for the next three years and the likes of Shiels, Black and Sandaza are exactly the players they are looking for. It''s just a pity that these good but unambitious players will be lost to the SPL for the foreseeable future.

[hibs0666]

They're still doing it!

So Sevco get a 12 month player regstration ban, which has been shown in court to be unlawful. The alternative to the ban was probably suspension from the league.

SPL say they'll let Sevco play if they get a share of their media rights. So basically Sevco get to buy a place in the SFL buy paying SPL clubs.

The whole thing stinks.

I hate this attitude that SPL, SFA, whoever can just make up rules as they go along, especially when whoever is doing the negotiating have all sorts of hidden agendas. Doing what's good for the game, etc.

There is no sporting integrity in Scottish football, the game is broken.

Where to start? :rolleyes:

[J-C]

A 12 month player ban which starts after this seasons transfer window, what is the point :confused:

[jdships]

They must be getting wads of cash from somewhere if they are attracting such players.

I honestly don't buy into the idea that they are completely skint. I believe they are getting short term hand outs from sources that have plenty to gain from it in the long run.

A strong Rangers in the SPL is a huge financial benefit to some companies.

Think you are nearer the truth than you realise :greengrin
I have been told there is a " White Knight " willing to pay top up wages ( ala Hart and George Best) for three/four players next season .

One thing that is for sure is that there will still be several players at Sevco who walk straight into the national set up
Harry Potter will ensure that happens !!

:rolleyes:

[VickMackie]

I personally don't see it as a lack of ambition.

Realistically where are the players mentioned going to move up to?

Black, cup winning captain and on a free with no club.
Beattie - I don't even know where he was before hearts, guessing career is on the way down.
Sandaza - looking for a decent wedge because he's probably not made a great amount in his career.

Rangers could pay for an SPL wage bill of 3-5 million, easily cover it, and take players like the above.

Some will look at it as a way to build up a 'great' club with the potential to be fan heroes for moving to them.

If I were any of the above three, or players like Kyle, I'd be knocking their door down. They're all probably looking to get two year deals as well.

[greenginger]

If the True Blues get behind SevCo F C and the show gets on the road I hope they remember they are definitely a new Company as far as HMRC are concerned.

No Corporation Tax losses to be brought forward so if they try to build up funds in the lower leagues as has been suggested by Traynor and other Sports Imbeciles the HMRC will want their cut ( 21% - 29% ). I don't think the Tax Man will be sleeping on the job this time around. :greengrin

[Lungo--Drom]

Dungcaster and Reekan have obviously never heard the phrase "take these boys away and fit them out with some nice concrete boots" :pray:

[jonty]

Am I the only one pleasently surprised that they're still going after the huns, and non conviently sweeping it under the carpet now they're in Div 3?

Surely if there was a conspiracy to get them into Div1, the same people who failed at that would continue to bend over backwards to ensure the membership was transferred and Sevco 5088 FC were back to full strength asap?

[CropleyWasGod]

A 12 month player ban which starts after this seasons transfer window, what is the point :confused:

Let's not forget that this is just a proposal. It has to be heard by the Appellate Tribunal before it can be confirmed. That Tribunal is independent and, as we have seen before, is not scared to make difficult decisions.

[hibs0666]

A 12 month player ban which starts after this seasons transfer window, what is the point :confused:

The point is to punish them without killling them.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Ok then, why would they WANT to be paying ridiculous wages at this point. Surely they bring players that are good enough for the 3rd and 2nd division, then build again in preparation for the first with the money theyve saved over the previous 2 years

They need to maintain a standard of player that will attract 30,000+ crowds, otherwise they will not be able to sustain a stable business with their fixed costs (rates alone are best part of £2M). Their thinking will also be that SPL2 might come about next summer and they won't be able to sign players then. In any case, you're not talking about **ridiculous** wages for that sort of player, they will only offer a few thousand a week at most. They'll just pay enough to outbid Hearts, Hibs, etc and little more.

[joe breezy]

I thought the courts have ruled the transfer ban is not an available punishment so they need to look at expulsion or suspension?

[Caversham Green]

It strikes me that there's an awfy lot of goalpost-shifting going on in this thread.

Go back to February and there were folk saying Rangers would be out of administration and debt-free in a few weeks. Then there were many confident predictions that they would still be in the SPL for the coming season, then it was 'relegation' only to Div 1. At any of those points I suspect the vast majority of us would have been happy for them to be treated as a new club in Div 3 - in fact many were saying exactly that. Now that it's happened we're looking for them to be treated as the same old cheating huns and have an immediate signing ban imposed.

The truth is they are a new club, but they're gaining (or seeking to gain) some of the old club's advantages, so they have to take some of the old club's punishment. Although they inherited some of the old club's players they've lost many more and if McCoist, Murray and Green are to be believed (and I realise that's where my argument fails) they don't have enough to make up a squad. It is not the SFA's job to prevent a duly-elected club from competing and an amnesty from the signing ban seems a reasonable way to allow them to build up a squad of sufficient numbers.

Undoubtedly they will have more financial clout than their fellow minnows and are almost certain to romp Div 3, but we were always aware that would happen. In truth I'm surprised the SFA have decided to impose the ban at all in the circumstances, personally I wouldn't have complained about a clean slate in Div 3 approach - the way a new club should be treated as many were saying earlier in the thread. I can't help feeling that we're getting back to the 'punish them for being Rangers' attitude and IMO a signing ban that was imposed immediately would prevent them from competing and would therefore be unfair.

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought the courts have ruled the transfer ban is not an available punishment so they need to look at expulsion or suspension?

One would think that the Tribunal will take that into account.

[Caversham Green]

I thought the courts have ruled the transfer ban is not an available punishment so they need to look at expulsion or suspension?

It's no longer a punishment under those rules though. It's now a condition of being granted a licence, and apparently they are free to impose whatever conditions they want.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's no longer a punishment under those rules though. It's now a condition of being granted a licence, and apparently they are free to impose whatever conditions they want.

According to the latest SFA statement "The conditional offer of transfer will now be submitted to the appellate tribunal for its consideration.". So they can, then, still knock that back.??

[Spike Mandela]

It strikes me that there's an awfy lot of goalpost-shifting going on in this thread.

Go back to February and there were folk saying Rangers would be out of administration and debt-free in a few weeks. Then there were many confident predictions that they would still be in the SPL for the coming season, then it was 'relegation' only to Div 1. At any of those points I suspect the vast majority of us would have been happy for them to be treated as a new club in Div 3 - in fact many were saying exactly that. Now that it's happened we're looking for them to be treated as the same old cheating huns and have an immediate signing ban imposed.

The truth is they are a new club, but they're gaining (or seeking to gain) some of the old club's advantages, so they have to take some of the old club's punishment. Although they inherited some of the old club's players they've lost many more and if McCoist, Murray and Green are to be believed (and I realise that's where my argument fails) they don't have enough to make up a squad. It is not the SFA's job to prevent a duly-elected club from competing and an amnesty from the signing ban seems a reasonable way to allow them to build up a squad of sufficient numbers.

Undoubtedly they will have more financial clout than their fellow minnows and are almost certain to romp Div 3, but we were always aware that would happen. In truth I'm surprised the SFA have decided to impose the ban at all in the circumstances, personally I wouldn't have complained about a clean slate in Div 3 approach - the way a new club should be treated as many were saying earlier in the thread. I can't help feeling that we're getting back to the 'punish them for being Rangers' attitude and IMO a signing ban that was imposed immediately would prevent them from competing and would therefore be unfair.

Nice words Cav but if Rangers are 'accepting' the appellate tribunals punishment of a transfer embargo it should be backdated to the original panel's decision date.

Just another backroom agreement with Regan and co to the benefit of Rangers and fortunately for Sevco they don't need other clubs to vote on this decision.

I realise people may start to be getting punishment fatigue but I believe this will just be the start of them 'going easy' on Rangers and fully expect them to be winging their way to a top tier structure debt free very soon and pissing all over the rest of us so don't go soft now Cav.

[s.a.m]

I thought the courts have ruled the transfer ban is not an available punishment so they need to look at expulsion or suspension?

I suppose that what the judge ruled was that that sanction could not be imposed on them (although he didn't say it was 'unfair', as a number of commentators have said - he simply said that: there were a range of punishments in the rule-book, the embargo wasn't one of them, and the SFA should have selected one of the available options, which included suspension and expulsion...).

The SFA, in turn, have said - I'm guessing - that if they want membership of the SFA then any alternative sanction would be up, rather than down the severity scale, so like it or lump it basically.

If Sevco choose not to contest it, then there isn't an issue.

[Caversham Green]

According to the latest SFA statement "The conditional offer of transfer will now be submitted to the appellate tribunal for its consideration.". So they can, then, still knock that back.??

Yes, I can't say I understand that one, unless they're going to consider whether the conditions imposed are sufficient to atone for the crimes they previously considered. Maybe it's more of a consultancy role rather than a judgemental one. Presumably Sevco have agreed to abide by their findings this time.

[patlowe]

I may well be wrong but I can't help but think Rangers will struggle for big crowds down in the lower leagues. OK, the initial buzz of the adventure might see a decent turn out but, assuming the league structure stays the same, the next few years will be a dull slog getting up the divisions.

Having said all that, how many people do you need to attract to afford a smallish squad of semi-decent SPL players? Sadly and frustratingly for us, probably not that many.

[Barney McGrew]

They're now talking to Dean Shiels. Let's see if his father accuses him of lack of ambition now.

They're also after Steve Jennings.

[Caversham Green]

Nice words Cav but if Rangers are 'accepting' the appellate tribunals punishment of a transfer embargo it should be backdated to the original panel's decision date.

Just another backroom agreement with Regan and co to the benefit of Rangers and fortunately for Sevco they don't need other clubs to vote on this decision.

I realise people may start to be getting punishment fatigue but I believe this will just be the start of them 'going easy' on Rangers and fully expect them to be winging their way to a top tier structure debt free very soon and pissing all over the rest of us so don't go soft now Cav.

I think there was always going to be a need for compromise somewhere along the line - 'Rangers' are one of the two biggest forces in Scottish football and we were never going to change that in a few months. In fact I think trying to change it would have done the game even more damage than it has already suffered. For me (and I suspect many others at the time) the compromise of allowing them into the SFL despite arguably not meeting the financial criteria seemed a reasonable one. The fact that the SFA have gone further and imposed a sanction on Sevco for Rangers FC's crimes is more than I expected. Sevco's argument is that imposing the embargo immediately would simply kill 'Rangers' off and, while we may all see that as desirable, it's not what the SFA are there for.

Sevco/Rangers have and will continue to have massive running costs - the upkeep and rates etc on Ibrox and Murray Park - and even if their crowds stay high, the income will be nothing like what it was in the SPL. And of course Charley and his dodgy mates are in it to make money not spend it, so I can't see huge amounts of cash sloshing about Ibrox.

Either way, 'Rangers' are a much weaker club than they were at the start of the year, and it's up to the SPL clubs to make the most of that to ensure that when they do get back into the top flight they don't piss all over the rest of us. We should not be expecting the SFA to do that for us.

[hibeequinn]

honestly why would players that are easily better than spl material sign for a division 3 cheating **** of a team a dont understand football anymore we should try offering sandazza and shiels a contract and possibly jennings to the players must now know that the league is open to anyone now that the current buns are no longer there nice to see griffiths back enjoyed watching him last season apart from his abuse to the fans but hey

[Spike Mandela]

I think there was always going to be a need for compromise somewhere along the line - 'Rangers' are one of the two biggest forces in Scottish football and we were never going to change that in a few months. In fact I think trying to change it would have done the game even more damage than it has already suffered. For me (and I suspect many others at the time) the compromise of allowing them into the SFL despite arguably not meeting the financial criteria seemed a reasonable one. The fact that the SFA have gone further and imposed a sanction on Sevco for Rangers FC's crimes is more than I expected. Sevco's argument is that imposing the embargo immediately would simply kill 'Rangers' off and, while we may all see that as desirable, it's not what the SFA are there for.

Sevco/Rangers have and will continue to have massive running costs - the upkeep and rates etc on Ibrox and Murray Park - and even if their crowds stay high, the income will be nothing like what it was in the SPL. And of course Charley and his dodgy mates are in it to make money not spend it, so I can't see huge amounts of cash sloshing about Ibrox.

Either way, 'Rangers' are a much weaker club than they were at the start of the year, and it's up to the SPL clubs to make the most of that to ensure that when they do get back into the top flight they don't piss all over the rest of us. We should not be expecting the SFA to do that for us.

Perhaps, but it won't surprise me to see Rangers sign significantly better players than us for this season prior to their ermmmmmm transfer embargo. Ludicrous.

[grunt]

This is all very well Cav, and you certainly seem to have taken your "voice of reason" pills this morning. So perhaps you can explain to me why Southampton have seen fit to agree a fee for Steve Davis when every other commentator seems to have considered him a free agent having decided aginst joining Green's merry men?

[Spike Mandela]

Rangers will have been given assurances that they won't languish in lower leagues for long. Player negotiations will involve telling players that they expect restructure to speed up their rise to top tier and most players will negotiate release clauses should that not happen. Expect the gravy train to keep on running.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Rangers will have been given assurances that they won't languish in lower leagues for long. Player negotiations will involve telling players that they expect restructure to speed up their rise to top tier and most players will negotiate release clauses should that not happen. Expect the gravy train to keep on running.

Like the assurances they had that they would be in SFL1?

[CropleyWasGod]

This is all very well Cav, and you certainly seem to have taken your "voice of reason" pills this morning. So perhaps you can explain to me why Southampton have seen fit to agree a fee for Steve Davis when every other commentator seems to have considered him a free agent having decided aginst joining Green's merry men?

That is one for Southampton (and Coventry too, I should add). My guess is that they did it just to secure the transfer, without any real understanding of the whole RFC/Sevco stuff.

[blackpoolhibs]

Someone posted they need 40000 season ticket holders at £200 each to bring in enough just to run ibrox and murray park, apparently it takes £8m a year to run them?

If this is true, thats a lot of folk they need before they start to make loses on wages? As i say, if thats true, then someone must be putting money in somewhere?:confused:

[Spike Mandela]

Like the assurances they had that they would be in SFL1?

Yes, exactly. A year on, restructure incentives may be more thought out and acceptable to clubs. You don't think the scaremongering and cries to get Rangers in the SPl will go away do you?

The SFA's latest joke about when is a transfer embargo not a transfer embargo should point the way as to how future assurances will go.

[Hibercelona]

Someone posted they need 40000 season ticket holders at £200 each to bring in enough just to run ibrox and murray park, apparently it takes £8m a year to run them?

If this is true, thats a lot of folk they need before they start to make loses on wages? As i say, if thats true, then someone must be putting money in somewhere?:confused:

:agree: Thats what i've been saying.

There must be investment coming from somewhere.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if SKY or ESPN were involved in some way. They would want to get Rangers back into the SPL ASAP.

[Spike Mandela]

Unless I am mistaken the ONLY sanctions that the SFA deem fit for Rangers in this wholly mess so far for withholding £14m PAYE etc is a £100,000 fine and a tranfer embargo that starts when the transfer window shuts.:faf::faf::faf::faf:

Surely this isn't a punishment but every SPL clubs future business plan:rolleyes:

[johnrebus]

It strikes me that there's an awfy lot of goalpost-shifting going on in this thread.

Go back to February and there were folk saying Rangers would be out of administration and debt-free in a few weeks. Then there were many confident predictions that they would still be in the SPL for the coming season, then it was 'relegation' only to Div 1. At any of those points I suspect the vast majority of us would have been happy for them to be treated as a new club in Div 3 - in fact many were saying exactly that. Now that it's happened we're looking for them to be treated as the same old cheating huns and have an immediate signing ban imposed.

The truth is they are a new club, but they're gaining (or seeking to gain) some of the old club's advantages, so they have to take some of the old club's punishment. Although they inherited some of the old club's players they've lost many more and if McCoist, Murray and Green are to be believed (and I realise that's where my argument fails) they don't have enough to make up a squad. It is not the SFA's job to prevent a duly-elected club from competing and an amnesty from the signing ban seems a reasonable way to allow them to build up a squad of sufficient numbers.

Undoubtedly they will have more financial clout than their fellow minnows and are almost certain to romp Div 3, but we were always aware that would happen. In truth I'm surprised the SFA have decided to impose the ban at all in the circumstances, personally I wouldn't have complained about a clean slate in Div 3 approach - the way a new club should be treated as many were saying earlier in the thread. I can't help feeling that we're getting back to the 'punish them for being Rangers' attitude [/B]and IMO a signing ban that was imposed immediately would prevent them from competing and would therefore be unfair.



Perhaps you have been down in leafy Berkshire too long?

To put it bluntly, I believe it would have been better for the country, not just Scottish Football, if this odious club had been killed off completely.

Having lived amongst these biggoted cretins for over forty years I have taken great delight in watching them squirm and am greatly dissapointed that they still exist at all.

For anyone who thinks they are now being punished too much, just remember what happened to Spartans for the terrible crime of incorrectly completing some paperwork.


Come the end of August the Huns will probably have a better squad than us.



:brickwall

[grunt]

For anyone who thinks they are now being punished too much, just remember what happened to Spartans for the terrible crime of incorrectly completing some paperwork.Agreed. This should be at the front of every journalist's mind when they write about Rangers "punishment".

[Hibercelona]

Punished?

They've been handed a life line that would never have been granted to any of us "diddy clubs".

They shouldn't even be in the SFL.

[Smidge]

That is one for Southampton (and Coventry too, I should add). My guess is that they did it just to secure the transfer, without any real understanding of the whole RFC/Sevco stuff.

Or possibly that they think he will be a key player and don't want any distractions given that they will be fighting to stay up from the get go. Or the potential issue of having to go to a tribunal to settle a fee in due course? Latter aspect obviously ignoring the legal TUPE arguments.

[CropleyWasGod]

Perhaps you have been down in leafy Berkshire too long?

To put it bluntly, I believe it would have been better for the country, not just Scottish Football, if this odious club had been killed off completely.

Having lived amongst these biggoted cretins for over forty years I have taken great delight in watching them squirm and am greatly dissapointed that they still exist at all.

For anyone who thinks they are now being punished too much, just remember what happened to Spartans for the terrible crime of incorrectly completing some paperwork.


Come the end of August the Huns will probably have a better squad than us.



:brickwall

This is getting to the whole crux of the debate, I reckon. Cav's comments have opened up a whole new discussion..... I agree with him in terms of the rationality of it all. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of the anti-Rangers stuff is exactly that...anti-Huns and not pro-fairness. I can sympathise with that position too.

Football is an emotional business... and I use those words on purpose. The fascinating bit for me is where those concepts collide.

[Paisley Hibby]

According to the latest SFA statement "The conditional offer of transfer will now be submitted to the appellate tribunal for its consideration.". So they can, then, still knock that back.??

I think they have to go back to the Tribunal because that's what the Court of Session said had to happen. However, Court of Session also said that a transfer ban was not one of the options open to the Tribunal. My guess is that the SFA will want them to simply confirm the fine and note that a transfer embargo is being imposed on SEVCO through other means. However, as other have pointed out, the Panel is independent. Also, the Panel will not be made up of the same people as last tiem. According to the Scotsman the guy from Spartans has said he now can't take part (because Spartans would potentially benefit from a decision that resulted in the Huns being binned) and Lord Carloway has gone off in the huff at the Court of Session decision. So who knows. This could keep us entertained for a while yet :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

Can we not just cancel all their games until they agree then!

[Onion]

Perhaps, but it won't surprise me to see Rangers sign significantly better players than us for this season prior to their ermmmmmm transfer embargo. Ludicrous.

:top marks THIS. More than anything sums up the ludicrous situation we have in the game right now. A 3rd Div team who have never kick a ball, are a product of a previous company with £130 million of defaulted debt, who broke virtually every rule in the game, are able to outspend everyone except their Glasgow cousins. Something's fundamentally wrong with this outcome.

[Barney McGrew]

Can we not just cancel all their games until they agree then!

That's where we are anyway. They won't get an SFA license Until this is sorted which means they can't play any games at the moment.

[Caversham Green]

Perhaps you have been down in leafy Berkshire too long?

To put it bluntly, I believe it would have been better for the country, not just Scottish Football, if this odious club had been killed off completely.

Having lived amongst these biggoted cretins for over forty years I have taken great delight in watching them squirm and am greatly dissapointed that they still exist at all.

For anyone who thinks they are now being punished too much, just remember what happened to Spartans for the terrible crime of incorrectly completing some paperwork.


Come the end of August the Huns will probably have a better squad than us.



:brickwall

I had to live with them too before I was banished to this god-forsaken pit of a place (it's full of English people as well as bloody leaves) and I remember being spat on and dodging all sorts of missiles at Ibrox, but the problem is, if you killed off the club they wouldn't just disappear, they'd form a new club and be as bad if not worse than before. In fact that's kinda what has happened.

The problem the SFA have is that the club that broke their rules (as opposed to just being obnoxious) is dead - they have escaped punishment by expiring. They now have a new club (with massive earning potential) laying claim to the old club's status but by the strict letter of the law the new club does not have to answer for the old club's sins, so there's a reasonable agrument for the signing embargo not to stand at all. Instead the SFA have produced a compromise by deferring the original embargo by six weeks - that punishment was deemed sufficient at the time it was imposed on the old club so why is it too lenient when applied to a new club that could arguably escape punishment completely? If Sevco are now to be treated as 'Rangers' they still have to answer for the double contracts accusations, but that hasn't been proven yet, so what I'm saying is that the signing ban is sufficient punishment in the circumstances for the crimes that the old club has been found guilty of, but there should be more to come if more crimes are proven.

However, going back to when there were confident predictions that there would be a 'Rangers' in the SPL for 2012-2013 (and I think you were one of the prophets Mr Rebus) I reckon most of us would have been biting hands off at the offer of Sevco in Div 3 with a year long signing embargo.

As for Spartans, I think their punishment was incredibly harsh, but theirs was a different indiscretion from Rangers/Sevco, so you can't really compare the two, and anyway two wrongs don't make a right.

[down-the-slope]

I think that we have reached a situation that most believed would never happen. 'Rangers' in Div 3 and out of the SPL picture for AT LEAST 3 years.

The fact that the SFA is continuing to ensure the rules are followed (People will say they have tried to do other wise but everything so far has been within / upholding the membership rules) is both right and good.

Even the embargo will have to again be looked at by the appealate tribunal - as it was they who inposed sanction - they may accept 'Rangers' belated acceptance - they may not...but its all within the rules

Lets not forget this punishment is for the Whyte era and non payment of tax in that period

There is still the dual contract issue to be resolved / judged and potential sanctions from that to follow - the sanctions from that could be extreme. The fact they have had to apply for membership transfer and not as a new club is actually adding to the burden for them...

The alternative of going out of business while appealing to a large number is not what this should be about - when Duff and Gray did their worst by risking our club with non-football investments we were left with the fall out to fix...but no one was seriously saying the fans should be left with no club

[Spike Mandela]

I had to live with them too before I was banished to this god-forsaken pit of a place (it's full of English people as well as bloody leaves) and I remember being spat on and dodging all sorts of missiles at Ibrox, but the problem is, if you killed off the club they wouldn't just disappear, they'd form a new club and be as bad if not worse than before. In fact that's kinda what has happened.

The problem the SFA have is that the club that broke their rules (as opposed to just being obnoxious) is dead - they have escaped punishment by expiring. They now have a new club (with massive earning potential) laying claim to the old club's status but by the strict letter of the law the new club does not have to answer for the old club's sins, so there's a reasonable agrument for the signing embargo not to stand at all. Instead the SFA have produced a compromise by deferring the original embargo by six weeks - that punishment was deemed sufficient at the time it was imposed on the old club so why is it too lenient when applied to a new club that could arguably escape punishment completely? If Sevco are now to be treated as 'Rangers' they still have to answer for the double contracts accusations, but that hasn't been proven yet, so what I'm saying is that the signing ban is sufficient punishment in the circumstances for the crimes that the old club has been found guilty of, but there should be more to come if more crimes are proven.

However, going back to when there were confident predictions that there would be a 'Rangers' in the SPL for 2012-2013 (and I think you were one of the prophets Mr Rebus) I reckon most of us would have been biting hands off at the offer of Sevco in Div 3 with a year long signing embargo.

As for Spartans, I think their punishment was incredibly harsh, but theirs was a different indiscretion from Rangers/Sevco, so you can't really compare the two, and anyway two wrongs don't make a right.
A year long signing embargo?:confused:

Sign as many players as you want for coming season. No signings in 4 week january window. Line up as many out of contract players to sign on Sept 1st next season. It will be as effectual as the SPl's discredited 10 point penalty for entering administration.

Good work Mr Regan.:rolleyes:

[BarneyK]

I think that we have reached a situation that most believed would never happen. 'Rangers' in Div 3 and out of the SPL picture for AT LEAST 3 years.

I wouldn't rule out league reconstruction next year - maybe 2 leagues of 16 and 1 of 10 (maybe 12 with a couple of new bodies) - and there you go, Huns back in the 2nd tier for next season. :paranoid:

[Spike Mandela]

I wouldn't rule out league reconstruction next year - maybe 2 leagues of 16 and 1 of 10 (maybe 12 with a couple of new bodies) - and there you go, Huns back in the 2nd tier for next season. :paranoid:

I wouldn't rule them out of top tier next year. A year to work on scaremongering, armageddon theories and scores of funny handshake backroom deals.

[johnrebus]

I had to live with them too before I was banished to this god-forsaken pit of a place (it's full of English people as well as bloody leaves) and I remember being spat on and dodging all sorts of missiles at Ibrox, but the problem is, if you killed off the club they wouldn't just disappear, they'd form a new club and be as bad if not worse than before. In fact that's kinda what has happened.

The problem the SFA have is that the club that broke their rules (as opposed to just being obnoxious) is dead - they have escaped punishment by expiring. They now have a new club (with massive earning potential) laying claim to the old club's status but by the strict letter of the law the new club does not have to answer for the old club's sins, so there's a reasonable agrument for the signing embargo not to stand at all. Instead the SFA have produced a compromise by deferring the original embargo by six weeks - that punishment was deemed sufficient at the time it was imposed on the old club so why is it too lenient when applied to a new club that could arguably escape punishment completely? If Sevco are now to be treated as 'Rangers' they still have to answer for the double contracts accusations, but that hasn't been proven yet, so what I'm saying is that the signing ban is sufficient punishment in the circumstances for the crimes that the old club has been found guilty of, but there should be more to come if more crimes are proven.

However, going back to when there were confident predictions that there would be a 'Rangers' in the SPL for 2012-2013 (and I think you were one of the prophets Mr Rebus) I reckon most of us would have been biting hands off at the offer of Sevco in Div 3 with a year long signing embargo.

As for Spartans, I think their punishment was incredibly harsh, but theirs was a different indiscretion from Rangers/Sevco, so you can't really compare the two, and anyway two wrongs don't make a right.


Guilty as charged.

However, much has changed since then, eg. it looked as if they might sneaked through the CVA at that time.

There are so many hooks to hang an argument about the Hun right now, my main one being the waiving of the three year accounts rule for any newco and the apparent refusal to administer the 'right and proper person', stuff - we still do not know who Green's investors are, let alone who really owns Ibrox, the car park and the Milngavie training centre!

Heard on radio today that a fee has been agreed with Soton for Davis. Do we assume that this cash is going to the Newco? Another example of stuffing the hundreds of creditors?

IMHO the very least, 'punishment', that should be handed out to the Hun is a complete ban for at least one season for the mess - or most of it - to be resolved.


:cb

[joe breezy]

Perhaps you have been down in leafy Berkshire too long?

To put it bluntly, I believe it would have been better for the country, not just Scottish Football, if this odious club had been killed off completely.

Having lived amongst these biggoted cretins for over forty years I have taken great delight in watching them squirm and am greatly dissapointed that they still exist at all.

For anyone who thinks they are now being punished too much, just remember what happened to Spartans for the terrible crime of incorrectly completing some paperwork.


Come the end of August the Huns will probably have a better squad than us.



:brickwall

Yes, sorry Caversham Green but this 'we've been punished enough' slant is bizarre.

Consequences and punishments are very different things.

They've not been punished at all yet.

[CropleyWasGod]

Guilty as charged.

However, much has changed since then, eg. it looked as if they might sneaked through the CVA at that time.

There are so many hooks to hang an argument about the Hun right now, my main one being the waiving of the three year accounts rule for any newco and the apparent refusal to administer the 'right and proper person', stuff - we still do not know who Green's investors are, let alone who really owns Ibrox, the car park and the Milngavie training centre!

Heard on radio today that a fee has been agreed with Soton for Davis. Do we assume that this cash is going to the Newco? Another example of stuffing the hundreds of creditors?

IMHO the very least, 'punishment', that should be handed out to the Hun is a complete ban for at least one season for the mess - or most of it - to be resolved.


:cb

We assume that BDO will claim the money on behalf of RFC, since Davis didn't transfer his contract to Sevco.

[down-the-slope]

I wouldn't rule out league reconstruction next year - maybe 2 leagues of 16 and 1 of 10 (maybe 12 with a couple of new bodies) - and there you go, Huns back in the 2nd tier for next season. :paranoid:

Neither would I - But to repeat myself that would require the members to agree....once Ranger FC (IA) are liquidated then they can no longer vote and so the 11v1 can be tabled to ensure that 'cartels' within the membership are harder

[Caversham Green]

A year long signing embargo?:confused:

Sign as many players as you want for coming season. No signings in 4 week january window. Line up as many out of contract players to sign on Sept 1st next season. It will be as effectual as the SPl's discredited 10 point penalty for entering administration.

Good work Mr Regan.:rolleyes:

The alternative is to impose the embargo now, which would mean (according to Green et al) Sevco don't have enough players to field a squad and after injuries and suspensions kick in they might not even have eleven starters. That would render the membership transfer pointless and potentially reckless since Sevco may not be able to fulfil their fixtures.

The SFA can't and shouldn't legislate for spending power or the ability to attract players so if Sevco can attract a higher quality of player than other Div 3 clubs then that's life. It means they have to spend it all now though and I don't see that they have a huge amount of cash to spare.

I think down-the-slope says it pretty well up there anyway.

[BarneyK]

Yes, sorry Caversham Green but this 'we've been punished enough' slant is bizarre.

Consequences and punishments are very different things.

They've not been punished at all yet.

Asides from the 10 points (a joke) they have not been punished. That said, I'm of a mind to let them get on with it - transfer embargo and all - and wait for the SPL investigation into double contracts. If they (the Oldco) are found guilty of this then any Titles and/or Trophies for this period should be stripped from them. Apart from that though, let's just leave Newco to get on with it. If creditors are then able to sue them for whatever they can get, fair play to them.

[BarneyK]

Neither would I - But to repeat myself that would require the members to agree....once Ranger FC (IA) are liquidated then they can no longer vote and so the 11v1 can be tabled to ensure that 'cartels' within the membership are harder

Yeah but on this occasion I think the members would all agree. We have all been looking for this larger league for years now, and given some time would have elapsed, I think the SPL chairmen would see it as an easier deal to push through. To be honest, I don't think it'd be a bad idea. It would mean that NewHuns would have to sign players now for a potential "Championship" assault next season though.

[jgl07]

The alternative is to impose the embargo now, which would mean (according to Green et al) Sevco don't have enough players to field a squad and after injuries and suspensions kick in they might not even have eleven starters. That would render the membership transfer pointless and potentially reckless since Sevco may not be able to fulfil their fixtures.


This is nonsense. They can sign as many under-18 players as they wish. They still have healthy numbers on the books and could be more than competitive in SFL3 as things stand.

[Caversham Green]

This is nonsense. They can sign as many under-18 players as they wish. They still have healthy numbers on the books and could be more than competitive in SFL3 as things stand.

But that means a signing embargo is pointless anyway, even if it started now. Indeed starting it now means it would end in time for them to make signings for the start of the 2013-14 season when they would expect to be in the second division. Instead if what you say is true they are going to be wasting money signing players they don't need now.

[jgl07]

But that means a signing embargo is pointless anyway, even if it started now. Indeed starting it now means it would end in time for them to make signings for the start of the 2013-14 season when they would expect to be in the second division. Instead if what you say is true they are going to be wasting money signing players they don't need now.

Indeed. You could argue that it is to the advantage of Green as it will placate the support who would otherwise be critical of failure to sign name players. This will help Rangers meet FFP targets for when they are eligible for Europan Football in three years tie.

[BarneyK]

We assume that BDO will claim the money on behalf of RFC, since Davis didn't transfer his contract to Sevco.

They have agreed the fee with Charles Green, so one would assume it's NewHun that'll be claiming the money. As per http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18937843

[johnrebus]

We assume that BDO will claim the money on behalf of RFC, since Davis didn't transfer his contract to Sevco.


Hmmmm.

Makes you wonder why Southampton are paying a fee though?

Davis is a free agent under employment law. You would think that a club - especially one like Soton, who almost when to the wall themselves not so long ago - would know the rules?

:cb

[BarneyK]

Hmmmm.

Makes you wonder why Southampton are paying a fee though?

Davis is a free agent under employment law. You would think that a club - especially one like Soton, who almost when to the wall themselves not so long ago - would know the rules?

:cb

The suggestion is that they didn't want any delay in his registration. I'm not sure that's worth the alleged £800k, mind :hmmm:

[down-the-slope]

Yeah but on this occasion I think the members would all agree. We have all been looking for this larger league for years now, and given some time would have elapsed, I think the SPL chairmen would see it as an easier deal to push through. To be honest, I don't think it'd be a bad idea. It would mean that NewHuns would have to sign players now for a potential "Championship" assault next season though.

So do I - its what we mostly all want - but the structure would be agreed with time and a position of relative strength in terms of financial splits / TV / etc etc..

I would hope that once we get playing football then the conversations and engagement with our club can move on to getting feedback on what we as a support want in terms of league reconstruction, and lobbying
for that opinion to be heard in a manner that is more constructive than what we have had to do in this unwanted situation

[Caversham Green]

Yes, sorry Caversham Green but this 'we've been punished enough' slant is bizarre.

Consequences and punishments are very different things.

They've not been punished at all yet.

I'm not saying they've been punished enough though, I'm saying they should be punished for what they've done and been found guilty of rather than for being able to sign better players than every one else. The original punishment imposed by an independent tribunal was a year-long signing embargo (along with a fine) and that was considered sufficient at the time. That embargo now stands subject to a six-week window which, if my debate with jgl07 is anything to go by, is pointless. They have not been found guilty of anything else yet for them to be punished more than that.

[BarneyK]

So do I - its what we mostly all want - but the structure would be agreed with time and a position of relative strength in terms of financial splits / TV / etc etc..

I would hope that once we get playing football then the conversations and engagement with our club can move on to getting feedback on what we as a support want in terms of league reconstruction, and lobbying
for that opinion to be heard in a manner that is more constructive than what we have had to do in this unwanted situation

Agreed. We no longer have to pander to any 11-1 voting nonsense so let's do it right, and if it means that the avenue for a NewHun re-entry into the SPL potentially moves ahead by a year, so what.

[johnrebus]

The suggestion is that they didn't want any delay in his registration. I'm not sure that's worth the alleged £800k, mind :hmmm:


So Newco receive nearly a million quid for a player they do not actually own? Another million quid that will not go anywhere near any oldco creditor.

Surely this is a straightforward employment law issue, yet the SFA/EUFA/ FIFA cannot resolve this without weeks of deliberation?


Brian Rix would have been proud to have written such a farce.


:rolleyes:

[Offside Trap]

We assume that BDO will claim the money on behalf of RFC, since Davis didn't transfer his contract to Sevco.

But Green/Newco don't accept that Davis' objection to TUPE had any legal validity. So Green's view is that Davis' contract did transfer to Newco...and therefore he pockets the Southampton dosh. Still find it utterly bizarre why Southampton would hand over reported £800k when Green clearly is wrong however.

[BarneyK]

So Newco receive nearly a million quid for a player they do not actually own? Another million quid that will not go anywhere near any oldco creditor.

Surely this is a straightforward employment law issue, yet the SFA/EUFA/ FIFA cannot resolve this without weeks of deliberation?


Brian Rix would have been proud to have written such a farce.


:rolleyes:

Can only assume that in spite of what has been previously written, he did agree to transfer his contract - possibly on the understanding that Newco would agree to sell him (probably with the fee to Southampton having already been agreed in principle).

[Offside Trap]

So Newco receive nearly a million quid for a player they do not actually own? Another million quid that will not go anywhere near any oldco creditor.

Surely this is a straightforward employment law issue, yet the SFA/EUFA/ FIFA cannot resolve this without weeks of deliberation?


Brian Rix would have been proud to have written such a farce.


:rolleyes:

I agree - I don't understand the delay with the SFA's Arbitration Panel being convened to look at this. More fundamentally, I don't quite follow how/why this Arbitration Panel is the decision making body here, ie:

- At the risk of sounding like Fat Sally, who will be on this SFA convened Panel....and are they qualified to correctly opine on employment contract law and TUPE regulations?

- Where does this Arbitration Panel sit in Employment Law. Why is the dispute resolution process here not like any other employment relationship, ie through an Employment Tribunal? If I was the PFA, that's where I would be going now because it is a slam dunk that the contracts did not transfer. Newco didn't consult properly per TUPE regs and the ET chair would 100% rule in the objecting players' favour and against Green.

[Brando7]

McCoist u can gFT

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18938991

Think he is forgetting the difference between oldco n newco

"And the manager added: "It is important to remember we have already had a 10 point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions. "

Sorry but i see it as the following

10 Point decuction - OLDCO (for going into administration)
lost our Champions League place - OLDCO (for going into liquidation)
had a £160,000 fine - OLDCO (for going into administration)
been refused entry to the SPL - NEWCO (Cause you cant just start a new team in the big league)
been relegated to Division Three (OLDCO (kicked out league for going into liquidation so u were not relegated you were granted access to play football as NEWCO where every club should start)
lost the majority of our first-team squad - OLDCO (for going into liquidation)

I'm happy the way everything has turned out but the title stripping would be the icing on the cake for me

[Just Alf]

Agreed. We no longer have to pander to any 11-1 voting nonsense so let's do it right, and if it means that the avenue for a NewHun re-entry into the SPL potentially moves ahead by a year, so what.

This.


With oldco\newco out of the picture for now at least we can discuss a new set up that approaches what WE want rather than one all but imposed on us.

[Kaiser1962]

Someone posted they need 40000 season ticket holders at £200 each to bring in enough just to run ibrox and murray park, apparently it takes £8m a year to run them?

If this is true, thats a lot of folk they need before they start to make loses on wages? As i say, if thats true, then someone must be putting money in somewhere?:confused:


Rangers costs, excluding wages, were over £23m per season (on average). Bearing in mind that Lloyds bank had a huge say for about three seasons one could surmise that a lot of the waste had aleady been expunged.

That said should they manage to even half those costs they would still require a greater income than any SPL club bar Celtic. Only time will tell if it can be done or not but I suspect that they will struggle a bit unless someone is prepared to throw money at them in teh short term.

Since February 14th we have all been told that Rangers would not go bust, the CVA would be accepted, they would not get kicked out the SPL, they would go straight into div 1, no way would they get busted all the way to div 3 and they would get off with everything. At times, reading Hibs Net, you might have thought that Rod Petrie was a bigger villain in all this than Rangers themselves.

All that can be said is that as this process has run it's course Rangers have been clattered every step of the way, in fact I struggle to think of an instance when things have gone IN their favour. And rightly so IMO.

We still have the outcome of the BTC to be announced and also the matter of double contracts to be resolved. I for one would not stop laughing, ever, if both these decisions went in their favour and there had been no need to enter administration in the first place.

Whatever the outcome, Rangers or not Rangers, this still has a bit of a way to go.

[jonty]

Rangers manager Ally McCoist defiant over title losses

Full article : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18938991


Ally McCoist
has sent a defiant message to the Scottish Premier League, saying Rangers will
"never accept" being stripped of any of their titles.

The SPL is pressing for more sanctions to be handed out to the new Rangers
before they are allowed to play in Division Three this season.

Rangers are being investigated for alleged undisclosed payments to players
between 2001 and 2010.

"I will not be accepting any talk of stripping titles," said McCoist.

"That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this
view."


If you dont want the punishments that go with the old membership Ally, then toddle off and play in the juniors until you can meet the league requirements. :bye:

[lapsedhibee]

Rangers manager Ally McCoist defiant over title losses

Full article : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18938991


Really - I mean really - how thick would you have to be to think, at this stage, after all that's gone on, that you can still dictate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable as your punishment?

[BarneyK]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug
#Rangers want #SPL to drop their investigation into dual contracts as part of 5 way agreement on #SFA membership #BBCSport

Dear Oh Dear. :rolleyes:

[Northernhibee]

:giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy::giruy:: giruy::giruy:

Never thought that was enough :giruy: that could be used to describe my feelings towards those lot, but every time they surprise me.

[BarneyK]

Really - I mean really - how thick would you have to be to think, at this stage, after all that's gone on, that you can still dictate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable as your punishment?

They don't have a say in it, if they are stripped of titles there's not a thing they can do about it. Mere sabre rattling.

[VickMackie]

How the hell can they be allowed to use this as a chip in any way.

You're not stripping out titles or, erm, our newly set up club won't play in your set up. Erm, okay then.

The investigation should not be dropped.

[GordonHFC]

In what other form of business would the wrongdoers dictate their own punishment. Tell them you accept what we give you or **** off. No negotiations. These Neanderthals don't deserve a licence anyway.

[BarneyK]

How the hell can they be allowed to use this as a chip in any way.

You're not stripping out titles or, erm, our newly set up club won't play in your set up. Erm, okay then.

The investigation should not be dropped.

The more you think about it, the more outrageous the mere suggestion becomes. Muppets of the highest water. :crazy:

[jonty]

he's going to end up with a few more charges against him at this rate.
I wouldnt be surprised if they ended up suspended for a year, then back in to a restructured top division.

One things for sure - we wouldnt be in the place we are now without the fans having their say - clubs and the SFA/SPL/SFL would have done as they'd wanted.

[ScottB]

I think we face a real problem here, and it is largely of the media's doing.

They have lied to the Rangers fans throughout, note how they are continually described as being relegated from the SPL, relegated to SFL3, banned from Europe etc etc painting them all as punishments.

They aren't punishments of course. We have all figured that out.

However, for I'm sure a very large number of Rangers fans, they are just taking in what the media is telling them. They believe these things to be punishments, they have been sold a story that they are the same club and they have ran with it.

With this in mind, that is why they are now going crazy at the 'evil, ridiculous, further punishments' because the hacks of spun them the story that they've suffered enough, I can fully see why they are going crazy.


And the problem for the wider game is, this has not been handled in anything like a proper manner. If it had been, we'd have a chance of the new Rangers one day making it back, having accepted its misdeeds and moved on. Instead, Rangers will eventually return, even more bitter, even more bile fuelled, its 'lunatic fringe' riven with hatred for every club and every governing body in the land.

It's not going to end well, frankly.

[Onion]

I think we face a real problem here, and it is largely of the media's doing.

They have lied to the Rangers fans throughout, note how they are continually described as being relegated from the SPL, relegated to SFL3, banned from Europe etc etc painting them all as punishments.

They aren't punishments of course. We have all figured that out.

However, for I'm sure a very large number of Rangers fans, they are just taking in what the media is telling them. They believe these things to be punishments, they have been sold a story that they are the same club and they have ran with it.

With this in mind, that is why they are now going crazy at the 'evil, ridiculous, further punishments' because the hacks of spun them the story that they've suffered enough, I can fully see why they are going crazy.


And the problem for the wider game is, this has not been handled in anything like a proper manner. If it had been, we'd have a chance of the new Rangers one day making it back, having accepted its misdeeds and moved on. Instead, Rangers will eventually return, even more bitter, even more bile fuelled, its 'lunatic fringe' riven with hatred for every club and every governing body in the land.

It's not going to end well, frankly.

So, basically no change there then, just more of them :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

I think we face a real problem here, and it is largely of the media's doing.

They have lied to the Rangers fans throughout, note how they are continually described as being relegated from the SPL, relegated to SFL3, banned from Europe etc etc painting them all as punishments.

They aren't punishments of course. We have all figured that out.

However, for I'm sure a very large number of Rangers fans, they are just taking in what the media is telling them. They believe these things to be punishments, they have been sold a story that they are the same club and they have ran with it.

With this in mind, that is why they are now going crazy at the 'evil, ridiculous, further punishments' because the hacks of spun them the story that they've suffered enough, I can fully see why they are going crazy.


And the problem for the wider game is, this has not been handled in anything like a proper manner. If it had been, we'd have a chance of the new Rangers one day making it back, having accepted its misdeeds and moved on. Instead, Rangers will eventually return, even more bitter, even more bile fuelled, its 'lunatic fringe' riven with hatred for every club and every governing body in the land.

It's not going to end well, frankly.

If we can look beyond the media to see whats really going on, then why can't they?

Either they are incredibly thick, or they know exactly what is going on and think they are too big to face any real punishment.

[Saorsa]

I think we face a real problem here, and it is largely of the media's doing.

They have lied to the Rangers fans throughout, note how they are continually described as being relegated from the SPL, relegated to SFL3, banned from Europe etc etc painting them all as punishments.

They aren't punishments of course. We have all figured that out.

However, for I'm sure a very large number of Rangers fans, they are just taking in what the media is telling them. They believe these things to be punishments, they have been sold a story that they are the same club and they have ran with it.

With this in mind, that is why they are now going crazy at the 'evil, ridiculous, further punishments' because the hacks of spun them the story that they've suffered enough, I can fully see why they are going crazy.


And the problem for the wider game is, this has not been handled in anything like a proper manner. If it had been, we'd have a chance of the new Rangers one day making it back, having accepted its misdeeds and moved on. Instead, Rangers will eventually return, even more bitter, even more bile fuelled, its 'lunatic fringe' riven with hatred for every club and every governing body in the land.

It's not going to end well, frankly.Too thick tae think for themselves, probably even get somebody tae read their daily bogroll for them. Hardly surprising when they cannae even walk upright.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/hunsmarch3.jpg

Here's one of the mair advanced ones

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/lol-2.jpg

[greenginger]

I think its time to dig out that highlights clip from the Souness ordering off on his Rangers debut at Easter Rd, showing McCoist sneaking up behind Mark Foulton, punching him on the back of the head then running off like the cowardly yaff he is.

The clip should be posted on as many other fans web sites as possible just in case there is any doubt anywhere about McCoist's loathsome character.

[Hiber-nation]

I think its time to dig out that highlights clip from the Souness ordering off on his Rangers debut at Easter Rd, showing McCoist sneaking up behind Mark Foulton, punching him on the back of the head then running off like the cowardly yaff he is.

The clip should be posted on as many other fans web sites as possible just in case there is any doubt anywhere about McCoist's loathsome character.

Edited as original post contained hun propaganda...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjSyWIli0E

[Saorsa]

I think its time to dig out that highlights clip from the Souness ordering off on his Rangers debut at Easter Rd, showing McCoist sneaking up behind Mark Foulton, punching him on the back of the head then running off like the cowardly yaff he is.

The clip should be posted on as many other fans web sites as possible just in case there is any doubt anywhere about McCoist's loathsome character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjSyWIli0E

[ScottB]

If we can look beyond the media to see whats really going on, then why can't they?

Either they are incredibly thick, or they know exactly what is going on and think they are too big to face any real punishment.

Because for the worst of them it all feeds into the delusion doesn't it.

Rather than this mess jerking them into reality, it will push them further into it. When Rangers make it back to the SPL, I think they'll be far worse than they already were!

[EdinMike]

And why would "They" want the dual contract charges dropped class ?!

Right, cause they are guilty !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18941515?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound

[Brando7]

And why would "They" want the dual contract charges dropped class ?!

Right, cause they are guilty !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18941515?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound

absolute disgrace they demanding the SPL to drop their investigation into dual contracts, they better tell them to GFT, fans will never accept this if they let them off with this!!!!!!!!!

[ScottB]

absolute disgrace they demanding the SPL to drop their investigation into dual contracts, they better tell them to GFT, fans will never accept this if they let them off with this!!!!!!!!!

It won't matter either way, they'll pull a Juve. The fans and the club will never acknowledge it and carry right on with their 5 stars. Just as Juventus still include the titles they won through match fixing, see this seasons kit with '30 Titles' written on it, and selling the third star separately with their kits so fans can add it on.

I'm surprised they are bothering to fight it, given that even if the SFA do it, they will never recognise it. May as well just agree.

[CropleyWasGod]

It won't matter either way, they'll pull a Juve. The fans and the club will never acknowledge it and carry right on with their 5 stars. Just as Juventus still include the titles they won through match fixing, see this seasons kit with '30 Titles' written on it, and selling the third star separately with their kits so fans can add it on.

I'm surprised they are bothering to fight it, given that even if the SFA do it, they will never recognise it. May as well just agree.

I disagree. It may well matter, if they are found guilty. It might be enough to have them expelled for good.

[ScottB]

I disagree. It may well matter, if they are found guilty. It might be enough to have them expelled for good.

There's no way they'll ever be gone for good. I could see them being banned for a season, but that's why the SFA is determined to get them to take the transfer band so that they don't have to refer them back to their independent panel.

Even if punishments start getting handed down, newco will go after a new licence if the old one is banned, and I'd wager they'd get given one, accounts or no accounts.

[Hibernia&Alba]

How many Hibs.netters have taken a look at FF and RM during this whole process? It's truly frightening how many Huns start threads which spuriously try to connect the whole process since they entered administration in February to the Catholic church in Scotland. I'm not an adherent of any faith, I have no interest in religion, but the number of bigots on those sites is terrifying and is an embarrassment to the country. Perhaps the extremists are over-represented on such sites simply becuase it's inevitable the hardliners will shout the loudest and make themselves heard, but I would be utterly disgusted if even one person expressed such views on a Hibs site. Their penchant for conspiracy theories and a belief in a holy war happening in Scotland today is just astonishing. Glasgow may be just down the road but it seems like another planet to me. There must be a silent majority of sane people in a western liberal democracy? If they weren't the biggest club in the country it wouldn't be so serious, but I just hate the thought of a small number of lunatics trying to turn Scotland into Northern Ireland during the bad old days. Some of them actively want this.

I worry there are enough idiots to follow those demagogues with malicious intent, and the lack of condemnation in such threads on those sites is a concern. I kid you not, there is currently a thread on FF in which it is mooted that, the sanctions against Rangers being an accepted Catholic conspiracy, there could now be a case for the ethnic cleansing of Scotland's Catholic population. Reasonable voices are shouted down.

The process of football sanctions cannot be threatened and bullied by the lunatic fringe of the Rangers support, and I really hope the nutters are defeated.

[Lungo--Drom]

:agree: Well said. One of the reasons I'm glad I support Hibs and not Celtic, like a lot of people I know including cousins, is that a lot of Celtic fans also can't separate football from 'plastic paddy' and IRA, just like the lunatic fringe Huns can't separate football from Orangeism and UDA etc. It's really depressing that some troglodytes on both sides of the OF fence just see it all as part of the same thing with football being some sort of sectarian stage.

One positive, on a Hun forum the other week that was linked to by a poster on this thread, there was a paranoid Hun rabbiting on about the "mhedia chonspirancy" and he referred to this country as the Republic of Scotland, which I take to mean he felt Scotland was like tartan version of the Republic of Ireland, and by default no longer part of Britain. Pity they wouldn't all up sticks and go and live in a refugee camp outside Buckingham Palace :pray: :cb:




How many Hibs.netters have taken a look at FF and RM during this whole process? It's truly frightening how many Huns start threads which spuriously try to connect the whole process since they entered administration in February to the Catholic church in Scotland. I'm not an adherent of any faith, I have no interest in religion, but the number of bigots on those sites is terrifying and is an embarrassment to the country. Perhaps the extremists are over-represented on such sites simply becuase it's inevitable the hardliners will shout the loudest and make themselves heard, but I would be utterly disgusted if even one person expressed such views on a Hibs site. Their penchant for conspiracy theories and a belief in a holy war happening in Scotland today is just astonishing. Glasgow may be just down the road but it seems like another planet to me. There must be a silent majority of sane people in a western liberal democracy? If they weren't the biggest club in the country it wouldn't be so serious, but I just hate the thought of a small number of lunatics trying to turn Scotland into Northern Ireland during the bad old days. Some of them actively want this.

I worry there are enough idiots to follow those demagogues with malicious intent, and the lack of condemnation in such threads on those sites is a concern. I kid you not, there is currently a thread on FF in which it is mooted that, the sanctions against Rangers being an accepted Catholic conspiracy, there could now be a case for the ethnic cleansing of Scotland's Catholic population. Reasonable voices are shouted down.

The process of football sanctions cannot be threatened and bullied by the lunatic fringe of the Rangers support, and I really hope the nutters are defeated.

[Lungo--Drom]

There are 830,000 Roman Catholics in Scotland plus a lot more people whose immediate family or other relatives are but they themselves no longer consider themselves RC or Christian, plus there are also decent law abiding non-Hun / non-nutcase people in their hundreds of thousands out of the 5.2 million population. If the jabbering Orange sectarian thugmonkeys on FF and RM etc. want 'ethnic cleansing' then they better watch out it isn't them who get cleansed (any kind of cleaning would be a first for them right enough). The recent SPL and SFL teams fans reaction and actions against Rangers show that thankfully the mental case Hun / Loyalist / sectarian nutters are in much smaller numbers than most people think. I think well over 80% of Scottish people would soon put these rabid dogs in their place.


How many Hibs.netters have taken a look at FF and RM during this whole process? It's truly frightening how many Huns start threads which spuriously try to connect the whole process since they entered administration in February to the Catholic church in Scotland. I'm not an adherent of any faith, I have no interest in religion, but the number of bigots on those sites is terrifying and is an embarrassment to the country. Perhaps the extremists are over-represented on such sites simply becuase it's inevitable the hardliners will shout the loudest and make themselves heard, but I would be utterly disgusted if even one person expressed such views on a Hibs site. Their penchant for conspiracy theories and a belief in a holy war happening in Scotland today is just astonishing. Glasgow may be just down the road but it seems like another planet to me. There must be a silent majority of sane people in a western liberal democracy? If they weren't the biggest club in the country it wouldn't be so serious, but I just hate the thought of a small number of lunatics trying to turn Scotland into Northern Ireland during the bad old days. Some of them actively want this.

I worry there are enough idiots to follow those demagogues with malicious intent, and the lack of condemnation in such threads on those sites is a concern. I kid you not, there is currently a thread on FF in which it is mooted that, the sanctions against Rangers being an accepted Catholic conspiracy, there could now be a case for the ethnic cleansing of Scotland's Catholic population. Reasonable voices are shouted down.

The process of football sanctions cannot be threatened and bullied by the lunatic fringe of the Rangers support, and I really hope the nutters are defeated.

[Lungo--Drom]

McCoist is only worthy of three words:

Fat Hun Tool

:lolrangers:


I think its time to dig out that highlights clip from the Souness ordering off on his Rangers debut at Easter Rd, showing McCoist sneaking up behind Mark Foulton, punching him on the back of the head then running off like the cowardly yaff he is.

The clip should be posted on as many other fans web sites as possible just in case there is any doubt anywhere about McCoist's loathsome character.

[Hibernia&Alba]

:agree: Well said. One of the reasons I'm glad I support Hibs and not Celtic, like a lot of people I know including cousins, is that a lot of Celtic fans also can't separate football from 'plastic paddy' and IRA, just like the lunatic fringe Huns can't separate football from Orangeism and UDA etc. It's really depressing that some troglodytes on both sides of the OF fence just see it all as part of the same thing with football being some sort of sectarian stage.

One positive, on a Hun forum the other week that was linked to by a poster on this thread, there was a paranoid Hun rabbiting on about the "mhedia chonspirancy" and he referred to this country as the Republic of Scotland, which I take to mean he felt Scotland was like tartan version of the Republic of Ireland, and by default no longer part of Britain. Pity they wouldn't all up sticks and go and live in a refugee camp outside Buckingham Palace :pray: :cb:


Mate, it's a complete showing up for Scotland when people who have never experienced what happened in Northern Ireland import those hatreds into Scotland. Thankfully we never had to live it, yet Scotland's central belt has too many of those buffoons, and the Old Firm are a manifestation of extremist terminology minus the risk. They have no idea of the tragedy that was experienced in Ireland, yet they want to show how genuine they are to one side or the other. There is nothing genuine about bigotry and the bravado of idiots, but the rest of us have to listen to their mental songs and their uneducated views, which they feel are justified by force of numbers alone. I bet most have never read a book about the Irish conflict, yet they become utterly convinced of their righteousness from childhood. Bigotry replaces analysis, particularly in the Rangers support where their anti-Catholic views are much more embedded than any anti-Protestant views by most Celtic fans. The Celtic away support manifests its bigotry via simplistic PIRA sloganeering, which is no more acceptable.


We can't allow football sanctions to be conflated with other things by morons.

[Newry Hibs]

OK - bit of a recap needed. When I left for my holidays and an enforced break from this thread, the SFL vote was about to take place and there were plenty of threats from various groups that div 1 was the only place for Newco.

Despite all the posturing, the SFL stood firm and sure enough div 3 awaits. However there now seems to be a shift in the SFA stance where there is even talk of no licence at all and titles lost.

Is there a point / reason where the mood changed and the SFA are actually doing their job?

[Onion]

Really - I mean really - how thick would you have to be to think, at this stage, after all that's gone on, that you can still dictate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable as your punishment?

McCoist has become a typical arrogant Hun, trying to appease the thousands of other arrogant Huns. He's a "fan" don't you know.

Shame, cause a few years ago he was one of the very few decent ex-Huns who always seemed to speak sense. Now, his head is mush. Lost all sense of perspective and bitter to the core.

[Hibercelona]

Mate, it's a complete showing up for Scotland when people who have never experienced what happened in Northern Ireland import those hatreds into Scotland. Thankfully we never had to live it, yet Scotland's central belt has too many of those buffoons, and the Old Firm are a manifestation of extremist terminology minus the risk. They have no idea of the tragedy that was experienced in Ireland, yet they want to show how genuine they are to one side or the other. There is nothing genuine about bigotry and the bravado of idiots, but the rest of us have to listen to their mental songs and their uneducated views, which they feel are justified by force of numbers alone. I bet most have never read a book about the Irish conflict, yet they become utterly convinced of their righteousness from childhood. Bigotry replaces analysis, particularly in the Rangers support where their anti-Catholic views are much more embedded than any anti-Protestant views by most Celtic fans. The Celtic away support manifests its bigotry via simplistic PIRA sloganeering, which is no more acceptable.


We can't allow football sanctions to be conflated with other things by morons.

:agree:

It would be like saying that you hate the Germans for WW2, even although you had nothing to do with WW2 and neither did today's generation of Germans.

Rangers fans make my blood boil. (Not all of them, but about 99% of them).

[Onion]

And why would "They" want the dual contract charges dropped class ?!

Right, cause they are guilty !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18941515?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound

:agree: Thats straight admission of guilt. The Huns are no position to negotiate anything at this stage, and the SFA/SPL should stand their ground. IMHO, NewHun will not be playing any football this season, and - whether McCoist likes it or not - they get titles and cups stripped from their records. Sweet.

[Siralbertkidd]

They just are not learning the lesson, a classic case of denial.
Until they have a humility transplant therangers will act in the same manner as rangers did and expected to get away with.

So far, I cant see any punishments handed out to therangers, but they have had the advantage of being chosen without the full set of qualifications , above others who have, into Division 3.

In return they should be looking to assist Scottish Football financially every way they can to minimalise the damage done by their parent company.

Therangers dont have any titles or cup wins to be stripped and while McCoist continues with his tunnel vision, I have now moved my position to looking for non registration as my preferred outcome.

I would also like to see Ajax become Team 12 :greengrin

[jonty]

OK - bit of a recap needed. When I left for my holidays and an enforced break from this thread, the SFL vote was about to take place and there were plenty of threats from various groups that div 1 was the only place for Newco.

Despite all the posturing, the SFL stood firm and sure enough div 3 awaits. However there now seems to be a shift in the SFA stance where there is even talk of no licence at all and titles lost.

Is there a point / reason where the mood changed and the SFA are actually doing their job?

They were voted into the SFL/SPL structure at SFL div 3. Now thats agreed, they need to arrange for SFA membership. They want oldco's, but dont want oldco's punishments for deeds done whilst holding membership.
If they were to apply for new membership, they need 3/4 years accounts - which they dont have.

[johnrebus]

:agree: Thats straight admission of guilt. The Huns are no position to negotiate anything at this stage, and the SFA/SPL should stand their ground. IMHO, NewHun will not be playing any football this season, and - whether McCoist likes it or not - they get titles and cups stripped from their records. Sweet.


This is looking increasingly likely - provided the SFA stand their ground.

If they come back in a week, one, two or five years, it will be as a new club - no history, no nothing. The SFA must apply the rules.

The next few days are crucial.



:cb

[johnrebus]

Rangers manager Ally McCoist defiant over title losses
Full article : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18938991



If you dont want the punishments that go with the old membership Ally, then toddle off and play in the juniors until you can meet the league requirements. :bye:



Have never fallen for the McCoist cheekie chappy stuff, even refused to watch, 'Question of Sport', when he was on the thing. But even he cannot now disguise his true personality - and it is not a pretty sight.

However, my dislike for the man has to be tempered by a morsel of humanity - this is only a game after all - so I believe that McCoist's best action now would be to walk away, because in every photograph I see of him in the press, he looks older and more ill by the day - he looks like a heart attack just waiting to happen. At forty nine years old he looks all of sixty in the last pic I saw.


:timebomb:

[Hibernia Na Eir]

And Kenny McDowell looked 60 when he played for St Midden!!!

[Newry Hibs]

They were voted into the SFL/SPL structure at SFL div 3. Now thats agreed, they need to arrange for SFA membership. They want oldco's, but dont want oldco's punishments for deeds done whilst holding membership.
If they were to apply for new membership, they need 3/4 years accounts - which they dont have.

OK - but given how the SFA were prepared to shoe-horn them in anywhere and even reorganise the leagues, a simple case of missing accounts could surely have been overlooked.

Anyway, it's still entertaining knwoing they are in div 3 at best this year.

[Minder]

Is this for real?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07/22/ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-is-back-in-business-as-a-debt-collector-86908-23911276/

[EuanH78]

Is this for real?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07/22/ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-is-back-in-business-as-a-debt-collector-86908-23911276/


:tee hee: CCS - Ya bam.

[jonty]

OK - but given how the SFA were prepared to shoe-horn them in anywhere and even reorganise the leagues, a simple case of missing accounts could surely have been overlooked.

Anyway, it's still entertaining knwoing they are in div 3 at best this year.

The voice of the fans, clubs taking notice and some decent journalism has meant nothing could really be swept under the carpet.

Be prepared for some lenient punishments though - but McCoist just keeps painting himself into a corner. :greengrin

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

There is absolutely no doubt that they won all the titles unfairly, and each one of the medals is tarnished so badly with the stain of cheating and hypocrisy, that all the brasso in the world won't wipe it off. I would have thought it would be more appropriate to let them keep them as a testament to their core values? Hollow, hollow, we are the bully boys.

[Siralbertkidd]

Is this for real?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07/22/ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-is-back-in-business-as-a-debt-collector-86908-23911276/


Even better, one of the guys they bumped was a magician.

I think therangers need him now more than ever :cb

[Hibernia&Alba]

Even better, one of the guys they bumped was a magician.

I think therangers need him now more than ever :cb

Sir Albert Kidd, may I just digress for a moment to say you're a bloody hero and to thank you for that glorious afternoon at Dens :not worth

[lapsedhibee]

Even better, one of the guys they bumped was a magician.

I think therangers need him now more than ever :cb

Not that far away now from being thealsorangers. :pray:

[Phil D. Rolls]

There is absolutely no doubt that they won all the titles unfairly, and each one of the medals is tarnished so badly with the stain of cheating and hypocrisy, that all the brasso in the world won't wipe it off. I would have thought it would be more appropriate to let them keep them as a testament to their core values? Hollow, hollow, we are the bully boys.

As far as I'm concerned they can take them all and throw them in the bin, because they won every one by cheating.

[WindyMiller]

Just the sort of person you'd expect to get involved with them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9419139/Rangers-in-crisis-controversial-football-agent-Paul-Stretford-assisting-Charles-Greens-Sevco.html

[grunt]

An update on the BTC from Alex Thomson

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/delayed-rangers-tax-tribunal/2359

Actually, not so much an update as a complaint that no-one is telling him anything.

[CropleyWasGod]

An update on the BTC from Alex Thomson

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/delayed-rangers-tax-tribunal/2359

Nothing will be happening just now. RFC's advisers will have stopped acting for them, and that will have caused delays. The likeliest outcome, IMO, is that the FTTT will simply confirm the HMRC assessments, in the absence of any defence from RFC.

And, in the big scheme of things, that will mean diddley squat.

[VickMackie]

They are probably waiting for rangers to be liquidated.

What happens if the BTC rules in their favour after the total amount was included, and inflated, in the % of amount during the admin vote?

[CropleyWasGod]

They are probably waiting for rangers to be liquidated.

What happens if the BTC rules in their favour after the total amount was included, and inflated, in the % of amount during the admin vote?

The liquidation is of no interest to the FTTT.

On your second point, the payment in the £ to creditors would be increased accordingly.

[stoobs]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but this Scotsman article says that Friday is the (latest) deadline day for Rangers to get SFA registration. SFL rules state a 14 day limit.


More pressing for the new Rangers is the fact that SFL rules state new clubs must gain SFA membership within 14 days of being accepted into their organisation. That means that Friday is the deadline day for Sevco, who have been treated as a completely new club by the SFL in paying a £1,000 application fee and a £1,000 entrance fee to play in the Third Division.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-newco-you-won-t-take-our-titles-says-defiant-ally-mccoist-1-2425462

Seems like quite a good article. Says that Ally McCoist has a "confused stance".

When is Ranger's first proper game?