Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[sidjames]

You say Tomato...

What's the difference between a plan and a proposal?

Green paper Whyte paper?:agree:

[carnoustiehibee]

The scottish media in support of rangers will continue to wind up other clubs in an attempt to unsettle season ticket sales and drive away fans.
Then they can say, look we told you so,you couldn't survive without rangers. The new Huns won't have a team next season, all this talk is just scaremongering, which seems to be working with some hibs bedwetters

[Part/Time Supporter]

What is the email address for the board?

[email protected]

[green glory]

This may of course all be academic. Do we really think the vermin will even be able to field a full squad next season?

The talk on Hunmedia is all about what Green said to Brown that so enraged him. "I'll turn this place to dust" being one of them lol.

The squabbles over the assets are just hotting up, and with BDO, Hector's liquidators just over the horizon, hopefully we're all just getting unduly annoyed. RP has to clarify though.

[Emerald]

The scottish media in support of rangers will continue to wind up other clubs in an attempt to unsettle season ticket sales and drive away fans.
Then they can say, look we told you so,you couldn't survive without rangers. The new Huns won't have a team next season, all this talk is just scaremongering, which seems to be working with some hibs bedwetters

If its just scaremongering then no problem, all Petrie needs to do is deny there is any truth in the report on the BBC website. All very easy to put right and then the bedwetters as you call them can go back to sleep. The future of Scottish Football must be looking good now.

[lucky]

WARNING NOT MANY WILL AGREE WITH MY POST BUT ITS MY OPINION

I'm amazed at the number of fans saying they'll not be back if Rangers go into 1st division. Sporting integrity left football as soon as the TV money arrived. Hibs have not challenged for the league for 50 years so how does the huns being in the 1st division change that? yes they need to be punished, but many on here did not think the SPL would kick them out. If Scottish football can change and the distribution of money is fairer through out the game then surely this deal is acceptable. Too many on here just want an excuse to kick the club and Scottish football in general. The more that stay away the poorer the product will get. As for the argument that they will come straight back up debt free, well when they they were saddled with huge debt they they were still too much for most clubs. I just don't get the argument that some on here are more anti-Rangers rather than pro-Hibs

[CallumLaidlaw]

What is the email address for the board?

[email protected]

I've emailed them too, with my feelings IF the leaked proposals are correct

[matty_f]

Where's the sporting integrity here, then?

I believe that the SPL needs to relegate oldco Rangers by 4th July for this to come into effect in time.

If this is the case, and it's been in the pipeline for a while, then ALL of the club's 'No to Newco' statements have led everyone up the garden path as effectively there would be no need to take the vote at all, as oldco Rangers wouldn't have an SPL share to transfer.

Frankly livid about this.

[HibbySpurs]

I'm not going to get upset about this until I find out what other changes are brought in. If it includes far greater revenue sharing to create a more level SPL then I may just reverse my decision to not by a season ticket.

:agree:

Ive just about had my fill of this and would rather that something was done and dusted so everyone knows where they stand if the huns are relegated to SFL1 with sanctions and a fairer deal in terms of revenue distribution then I wont be happy but it may turn out to be at least the end of this sorry saga.

Some will insist this is not enough and not go back and thats their perogative of course. Personally I'll go back if the deal struck punishes them AND give the rest of Scottish football a fairer deal in the long term. The 11-1 commercial voting rule in the SPL must be abolished as a pre-requisite of any "deal" like te one now being discussed, if it's not we'll be back at square 1 in 1 year.

FWIW I DO want them papped into SFL 3 but this has dragged on long enough, it's time to get it sorted and move on for the good of Scottish football.

[Heraghty's]

We need to hear from Petrie NOW. :agree:

[Gingertosser]

Mr Petrie,

You have my permission to copy & paste..

In response to todays report by Jane 'err,emm' Lewis in which I have been named as colluding to hatch a deal with Mr Charles Green who fronts Sevco5088, I would like to say (in the style of Jane Lewis) "No such briefing took 'err,emm' place and I certainly have no need to gain the 'err,emm' approval of a company who at this moment have 'err,emm' no standing whatsoever in Scottish Football.

"You have obviously learnt your 'err,emm' trade from the likes of Young & Traynor or have you 'err,emm' been sat on by Traynor and received permanent brain damage during the 'err,emm' process.

GTF
The Tache

[Just Alf]

We need to hear from Petrie NOW. :agree:

"All changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days. The plans require the support of eight SPL clubs and a majority of SFL clubs to be passed.

Should the proposals not gain support, it remains possible that Rangers could begin next season in Scottish Division Three, the lowest league in the senior set-up.

Division One clubs Falkirk, Raith Rovers and latterly Morton have voiced their opposition to any plans to place the Rangers newco in the second tier."

Especially on how we'll be voting?

[matty_f]

This would be an absolute kop out and make a nonsense of all this 'sporting intergrity' stance.

This lot should not be allowed back in to Scottish Football never the 3rd division. If they are allowed to go straight in to div one, what's the point anymore?

If they get away with this I reckon we should all go in to liquidation and start afresh with no debts and just call oursekves New Hibs, new Yam, new Motherwell etc etc.

:agree: Sporting integrity my erse.


Great so its going to cost everyone else a total of £1m to save a team of cheats I don't know why we bother

Utter disgrace if we should be subsidising Rangers pathway to a bright new debt free future in the SPL. Surely Celtc would be up in arms about this as much as the rest of us!?


Absolute no-brainer.

It hardly changes things at all, everyone knows they would be back in the top league the following season...pile o ****.

:agree:

[JeMeSouviens]

My mail to the club:


So far during the ongoing saga of the demise of Rangers FC and the potential appearance of a new club playing at Ibrox I have been delighted and proud of Hibernian's stance. To me, and every other Hibs supporter I have spoken to (and fans of other clubs as well), it is imperative that nobody is made into a special case and that the same set of rules are applied to everybody. That would be my definition of sporting integrity.

Rangers FC failed to exit administration and will shortly be liquidated. Irrespective of whether a new club has purchased some of that now defunct club's assets, it is still a new club and must be made to follow the same rules as any other new club when it applies to join the Scottish professional game. This is no longer about punishment: Rangers FC is dead. This is about ensuring that all clubs who would seek to enter the league setup to fill the vacancy are treated fairly, whether they play at Ibrox or Ainslie Park.

I therefore note with some dismay that the BBC report this morning that our chairman is involved with a plan to see a new club enter Scottish football at Division one of the SFL:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18625293

While I recognise the need to restructure the Scottish game, I would be completely opposed to any plan that would see a new club enter Scottish football outside of the normal procedures. To do this would be to corrupt the game irretrievably.

The fact that our chairman has been named directly in this article is causing widespread concern among Hibs fans. I think the club needs to clarify its position and I would urge you to make a public statement that the club will not support the admission of a new club to Scottish football in any way outside the normal procedure.

[HFC 0-7]

WARNING NOT MANY WILL AGREE WITH MY POST BUT ITS MY OPINION

I'm amazed at the number of fans saying they'll not be back if Rangers go into 1st division. Sporting integrity left football as soon as the TV money arrived. Hibs have not challenged for the league for 50 years so how does the huns being in the 1st division change that? yes they need to be punished, but many on here did not think the SPL would kick them out. If Scottish football can change and the distribution of money is fairer through out the game then surely this deal is acceptable. Too many on here just want an excuse to kick the club and Scottish football in general. The more that stay away the poorer the product will get. As for the argument that they will come straight back up debt free, well when they they were saddled with huge debt they they were still too much for most clubs. I just don't get the argument that some on here are more anti-Rangers rather than pro-Hibs

Whats the point if the authorities are going to do everything they can, against what the majority of the fans want. There are rules in place that every club adhere to, then Rangers dont adhere to them lots of them and for some time and the authorities want to bend and change the rules just for them. Many see this as a chance for scottish football to become fairer, but that goes out the window as soon as the authorities favour one team and dont properly punish them according to their own rules.

If teams are better than us because they have more money to spend then thats fair enough, if teams are better than us because they cheated for years then where is the fairness in that? If this was any other club outside the old firm there would have been none of this going on. As soon as the old club ceased they would have been told to re apply to SFL, we cannot have one rule for one and another for the rest.

What is the point of supporting something that will never have a chance? Its shocking, they should be sticking to the rules, there should be no votes, just follow the rules.

[Spike Mandela]

Ok....there have been many of those since 14 February :greengrin

Remember... there needs to be 22 SFL clubs to vote for this nonsense.

I notice that the BBC article states only a majority of SFL clubs have to vote for this reconstruction. Lazy journalism or more making the rules up as they go along?

[InchHibby]

It has just been reported on lunch time BBC Scottish News that the governing bodies have agreed that
The Newco will be playing in the First Division.
Dundee will be playing in the SPL and a million pound payment to the first division to allow Newco games to be televised.
This is the biggest stitch up ever and I wonder if those clubs that have revealed their voting intentions along with Hibs knew this was coming.
I don't know if it will make any difference but I certainly hope all First Division Clubs say a big no to this.
This only goes to prove that their will only be change within the Scottish Divisions if either of the two Glasgow teams are threatened.
Is it all worth it. We would be better with a separate Division of both Celtic and Rangers and let them play each other 36 times a year.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I notice that the BBC article states only a majority of SFL clubs have to vote for this reconstruction. Lazy journalism or more making the rules up as they go along?

Yes, to vote for the whole package would require the votes needed for league reconstruction. That means 11-1 (90%) in the SPL and 23/30 (75%) in the SFL.

BTW, the "it is understood" in front of the bit about Petrie means that is complete guesswork by the BBC. They don't have a clue what was discussed there, they are just speculating that's what was discussed.

[Spike Mandela]

WTF.

https://twitter.com/stvgrant/status/218324961901821953

[LancashireHibby]

Hugely demoralising if this turns out to be true. Just makes a mockery of clubs keeping to the rules of the years of crap football we've had to put up with accordingly.

[LancashireHibby]

WTF.

https://twitter.com/stvgrant/status/218324961901821953
All in the terminology. The difference is as far as I'm concerned that the old Rangers have gone bust and therefore there isn't a club to relegate.

[Andy74]

My mail to the club:

Think that's very fair and probably right that regardless of what the situation really is , Hibs have been pushed into a corner where they should really clarify what they believe to be going on.

I suspect it's Rod as Chair of the SFA professional board and his involvement in restructuring the leagues, which is all fair enough, but that does not, and should not, mean that Rangers are to be viewed as an excpetion that they would allow straight into this new set up.

I don't think people should have a go until we know the details and so Hibs need to close this down before it gives any more an excuse not to buy season tickets.

[RyeSloan]

The BBC reporting on the Rangers saga has been inaccurate, rushed and frankly wrong on a number of occasions so I'm not putting too much weight on the fact that they have Rangers going into Div 1 as part of the plan that RP is 'briefing' Green on.

The SFA have already stated that they see the current situation as a catalyst for change and there has clearly been discussions to that effect. I don't think anyone has issues with the wider thrust of those:

A consolidated league structure with a pyramid system

One body to oversee all professional leagues

A more equitable distribution of revenues

Bigger compensation to relegated teams to ensure relegation is only a football not a financial disaster

Revised and clarified rules and regs around financial fair play


None of the above needs Rangers in any league to happen and I fail to see why they would be inserted into Div 1 next year or why RP or anyone else involved at board level in the SPL/SFL will want that to be the case...especially as it is very unclear as to what 'Rangers' actually means anymore.

I assume the £1m payment in the BBC article is a sweetener to the SFL to entice them to bend their rules....sounds great in theory but since so many SPL clubs claim the loss of Rangers will cause financial hardship I seriously doubt they will all be prepared to hand over another 91k each just to help out 'Rangers'

[Thecat23]

What is worrying me is some folk are saying "Don't worry as it needs the support of other clubs to go through". Yes that may be true but why the **** are we trying to help a Newco into Division 1 in the first place? Its a new club so a new club should start at the bottom no questions asked. For gods sake the SPL/SFA have made us the biggest laughing stock in football with the handling of this. Our chairman's name getting attached is bad publicity for Hibs and if true could have huge implications further done the line. Newco by name yet same old bumming from all involved at the top if you ask me.

[carnoustiehibee]

If its just scaremongering then no problem, all Petrie needs to do is deny there is any truth in the report on the BBC website. All very easy to put right and then the bedwetters as you call them can go back to sleep. The future of Scottish Football must be looking good now.

Yeh totally, petrie should issue a statement denying at all

[Thecat23]

My email to the club..

I’m sure you have been made aware of the article the BBC Sport have on their site claiming that Mr Petrie has been involved with talks about Newco joining the 1st Division.

I’d hope that this isn’t true and that the punishment should be to enter division 3. As it’s not Rangers anymore then it’s not relegation, it’s a completely new team applying. If Newco were to go straight to the 1st then surely that breaks the rules of the league? Shouldn’t they have to apply to division 3 with out any of this nonsense and bending over backwards to treat them best we can? You do realise they cheated Hibs and every other club with that they did. Livingston were relegated and I hope if they did get into division 1 Livingston would take legal action against anyone involved. The supporters DO NOT want them to have an easy ride back. As a season ticket holder I’d do everything I could to get my money back if I found out Hibs have anything at all to do with even discussing Newco into the first.

I hope the bored takes this very seriously because you will be looking at poor season ticket sales and very low crowds. Do what is right and make sure if you have any input to what happens that they start in the 3rd where a new team should start.

[JeMeSouviens]

WARNING NOT MANY WILL AGREE WITH MY POST BUT ITS MY OPINION

I'm amazed at the number of fans saying they'll not be back if Rangers go into 1st division. Sporting integrity left football as soon as the TV money arrived. Hibs have not challenged for the league for 50 years so how does the huns being in the 1st division change that? yes they need to be punished, but many on here did not think the SPL would kick them out. If Scottish football can change and the distribution of money is fairer through out the game then surely this deal is acceptable. Too many on here just want an excuse to kick the club and Scottish football in general. The more that stay away the poorer the product will get. As for the argument that they will come straight back up debt free, well when they they were saddled with huge debt they they were still too much for most clubs. I just don't get the argument that some on here are more anti-Rangers rather than pro-Hibs

I'm 42. I grew up in a time where it was only a few years since Hibs had had a side capable of challenging and although it might not have been Hibs, several clubs with a similar sized support base etc were actually challenging for and winning the championship. The last realistic non-OF challenge was probably Aberdeen in the early 90s, ie. 20 years ago. Since then my hope for Hibs and the game has gradually eroded. I clung to the belief that maybe if we managed to get a decent side together we could build things up (upward spiral anyone?) but the fact that that actually happened but was torn apart by the OF vultures before it could go anywhere has all but left me in despair. I gave up my ST 3 years ago and have attended less and less games since.

You're right that TV money has accelerated the decline. The formation of the 12 team SPL with only 1 team relegated was a blatant attempt to keep the tv money within a few clubs and the farcical split after 3 rounds to keep an extra visit from the OF was about as blatant a statement you could make that the game is ******ed.

But corruption to put a new team anywhere other than the bottom of the pile just because it is seen as representing the Hun franchise is the final straw for my camel. This is the point where we go from a de facto ****up to a de jure ****up, and I just can't stand it.

[MyJo]

Another perspective:

Rangers plan to make an application for admittance to the 1st division and Petrie, being the chair of this board, has set out proposals that rangers must accept including, paying footballing debts and taking the punishment due for the actions of the previous incarnation of rangers, restructuring of the leagues and £1m of the tv deal although rangers matches will likely continue to be televised to the same extent therefore keepin the sky deal intact but rangers do not get the same level of income from it. If rangers accept these conditions then thier application to join the 1st division will be considered and put forward to a vote by sfl members. If they don't accept these conditions or the sfl vote against thier 1st division application then they will be looking at starting from the very bottom.

[HFC 0-7]

Sky Sports reporting the SPL are planning to relegate Rangers from the SPL, SFL say no agreement has been made. If they are relegated they have to accept previous punishments and pay all football related debts.

SFL sending something out to the member clubs

[matty_f]

SFL Statement today:

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.







Looks like it's far from the done deal that the BBC seem to think it is.

[IWasThere2016]

WARNING NOT MANY WILL AGREE WITH MY POST BUT ITS MY OPINION

I'm amazed at the number of fans saying they'll not be back if Rangers go into 1st division. Sporting integrity left football as soon as the TV money arrived. Hibs have not challenged for the league for 50 years so how does the huns being in the 1st division change that? yes they need to be punished, but many on here did not think the SPL would kick them out. If Scottish football can change and the distribution of money is fairer through out the game then surely this deal is acceptable. Too many on here just want an excuse to kick the club and Scottish football in general. The more that stay away the poorer the product will get. As for the argument that they will come straight back up debt free, well when they they were saddled with huge debt they they were still too much for most clubs. I just don't get the argument that some on here are more anti-Rangers rather than pro-Hibs

I think owing member clubs eg Yams, Cellic, DUFC small fortunes should be grounds for severe punishment - regardless of which club it is.

Severe punishment is not one season in SFL 1 IMHO. That's neither anti-Rangers or more anti-Rangers than pro-Hibs IMHO.

[Andy74]

SFL Statement today:

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.







Looks like it's far from the done deal that the BBC seem to think it is.

And potentially more limiting on Rangers than coming into the 3rd division, sanction free, whilst also making the required changes to Scottish football in structure and revensue and saving what is left of the TV deal.

Rangers under this would need to pay back football debts by the looks of it, from funds they don't have, probably take a tranfer embargo, so not adding to a squad that they also don't have, and also remaining open to punsihment over dual contracts inculding further demotion and stripping of previous titles from the oldco.

I'd be willing to be persuaded on the detail.

They'd be miles from being an SPL ready team.

[Part/Time Supporter]

SFL Statement today:

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.







Looks like it's far from the done deal that the BBC seem to think it is.

That's because events have moved on a lot since whoever dreamed up this plan a few weeks ago. This didn't just happen overnight, it's been mooted in the Record for a couple of weeks that they would go into SFL1.

The fans just need to keep the pressure on to make sure it won't happen.

[Part/Time Supporter]

And potentially more limiting on Rangers than coming into the 3rd division, sanction free, whilst also making the required changes to Scottish football in structure and revensue and saving what is left of the TV deal.

Rangers under this would need to pay back football debts by the looks of it, from funds they don't have, probably take a tranfer embargo, so not adding to a squad that they also don't have, and also remaining open to punsihment over dual contracts inculding further demotion and stripping of previous titles from the oldco.

I'd be willing to be persuaded on the detail.

They'd be miles from being an SPL ready team.

Andy, with respect that is nonsense. How can it be "more limiting" to be given a free pass through two divisions?

[adhibs]

constantly watching pish football and the regular humiliations from hearts are bad enough. playing any part in ensuring the survival of the absolute **** that is glasgow rangers is one thing that i wont accept from hibs. If true my season tickets going back and thats it

[Gingertosser]

SFL Statement

YOUR GAME–YOUR CLUB–YOUR FUTURE

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.

The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.

The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.

David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL
28th June, 2012.

[ScottB]

WTF.

https://twitter.com/stvgrant/status/218324961901821953

6 clubs have said they will vote no. That means newco would not be allowed into the SPL, assuming they stick to their word. If the newco are not in the SPL, they cannot be relegated from it.

As others have suggested, this all comes across as desperate nonsense, unless the clubs that have said No change their minds, which would kill the game dead.

[Captain Trips]

Putting Newco in Div 1 above every other club in Divisions 2,3 goes against the very point in football, if this is allowed then we will become the joke of Euroupe if we are not there already.

New teams start at bottom end of.

[Jim44]

I think Petrie is gambling on the threats of the 'plebs' being empty hot air in the long run. He clearly values the Sky money and the financial oomph of Rangers more than the views and feelings of the heart of every club in Scotland. And before the Petrie apologists get in with the 'Petrie has a cunning plan ......' I choose for the moment to judge him guilty until he publicly refutes the BBC reports.

[IWasThere2016]

My mail to the club:

Well said. I used that as the basis of my email also. It has to be SFL3 or nothing IMHO.

[LancashireHibby]

And potentially more limiting on Rangers than coming into the 3rd division, sanction free, whilst also making the required changes to Scottish football in structure and revensue and saving what is left of the TV deal.

Rangers under this would need to pay back football debts by the looks of it, from funds they don't have, probably take a tranfer embargo, so not adding to a squad that they also don't have, and also remaining open to punsihment over dual contracts inculding further demotion and stripping of previous titles from the oldco.

I'd be willing to be persuaded on the detail.

They'd be miles from being an SPL ready team.
Although it's far more encouraging than the initial suggestion of them going straight to SFL1, their football debts must be pretty miniscule compared to the HMRC debt? My main issue is that there is a definite blurring now between the extinct club and the NewCo.

[Monts]

YOUR GAME–YOUR CLUB–YOUR FUTURE

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.

The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.

The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.

David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL
28th June, 2012.

On the face of it that looks like a decent and balanced statement, however it is the bit in bold that is all that is wrong with the whole situation. There should be no question of trying to accomodate Rangers. It should be 'oldco dead, newco start again'.

[HFC 0-7]

And potentially more limiting on Rangers than coming into the 3rd division, sanction free, whilst also making the required changes to Scottish football in structure and revensue and saving what is left of the TV deal.

Rangers under this would need to pay back football debts by the looks of it, from funds they don't have, probably take a tranfer embargo, so not adding to a squad that they also don't have, and also remaining open to punsihment over dual contracts inculding further demotion and stripping of previous titles from the oldco.

I'd be willing to be persuaded on the detail.

They'd be miles from being an SPL ready team.

Andy, it looks like this deal comes with a sweetener for division one as it takes 1million away from us and goes to the division 1. So we are going to be down the fans that stay away because of this, rangers fans not coming to the ground and a loss of TV revenue. The statement didnt talk about future punishment, I think it just referred to punishments already given, ie the fine. The transfer ban wont be standing IMO.

[Andy74]

Andy, with respect that is nonsense. How can it be "more limiting" to be given a free pass through two divisions?

I've said it could be more limiting.

A newco beinfg admitted to SFL 3 or equivalent could probably reappear sanction free, not owing any football debts and being untouchable to punishments for previous wrongs.

The could probably pretty quickly emerge through 2 or 3 divisions in quick succession.

Allowing them to be seen as a continuing club, and having to accept various conditions, could see them remain where they are or slide the leagues themselves.

They'd have to find the cash to pay Hearts and Vienna, they would be unable to sign anyone over 18 and they are still open to punishments about dual contracts and taking the SFA to court for example which could also come with points sanctions or stripping of previous titles and trophies.

The focus has just been on re-entering the league at the bottom, but perhaps that actually isn't the worst outome they could get?

The other upside of this would be the TV deal remains reasonably intact and we get a sensible league structure and revenue split.

I'm not saying that it will be a worse outcome for them, it just needs thought through and not dismissed because the sanction point could be very important.

[The Sea-gull]

Now that it looks like they have no chance of getting in the SPL we are getting Raith and Falkirk coming out and saying they will not vote them into the first division. I had never thought about it from this angle but a Newco Rangers would almost be assured promotion at the first attempt from the first division so any team voting them in would be effectively kissing good bye to their promotion hopes for the season though getting a couple of big gates in return. They'd get the big gates in two years if RFC end up in the third division so no real incentive there to turn down a chance of SPL football for a season.

Looking at the first division next season, it is one of these leagues where I would say almost every club apart from maybe Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath could put a reasonable case forward for a promotion chance. So maybe the Newco won't get many votes there either.

Anyone else think the whole thing is maybe a stitch up though?

Perhaps it has been agreed behind the scenes with the SPL, SFL and Sky that Rangers will go into Div 1. This way the SPL clubs probably only lose Rangers for a season but it allows them to look good in front of their fans with statements about integrity etc thus avoiding boycotts.

The SFL could be compensated by the SPL and Sky for effectively losing the chance of winning the title for one season by getting a TV deal for a season and a play off place for the second placed team. Sky lose out on old firm games probably only for a season but minimise the loss of Rangers supporting subscribers by showing their first division games by way of a one season TV deal with the first division.

I'm not saying this is happening or will happen but won't be surprised if some or all of it comes true.

I also feel the much talked about "SPL 2" is on the way, accelerated by the Rangers thing, where a TV deal for both divisions comes in and a play off between 2nd bottom SPL and 2nd top is put in place.

Hope they don't rush through any plans to reduce the size of the league to a league of 10 as at this moment in time we could do with out up to three teams being relegated from the SPL until we sort ourselves out a bit.

Sounds like much of what I suggested in my post at the start of the thread may have some substance.

IF (and I emphasise IF as it is just a report and nothing is confirmed) the BBC report is true then the actions of the clubs in the last few days have nothing really to do with sporting integrity and all to do with preserving face with minimal disruption to income. Sounds like a carefully planned operation to me. It stinks though.

Think what annoys me most is that some of the planned changes have been long over due and campaigned for years but the only reason they might come in is coz of the Huns situation. Take that away and we would still be no further forward with change in the game.

Like many, I am in favour of many of the reported proposed changes but Rangers New Co should be made to apply to the SFL and start in the third division. Teams will lose money for three years or so but I am not so convinced that three years without Rangers in the SPL will suddenly see clubs going to the wall.

If Rangers in the first division next season comes to fruition then I will find it hard to believe that the annoucements made by the SPL clubs this week were made without knowledge of this outcome.

"There is no price on sporting integrity". I think we may be about to find that actually there is. Can we really blame the clubs though for trying to find a solution which punishes Rangers but also minimises losses at a time when money is so tight and shows no sign of getting any better in years to come.

[Jim44]

On the face of it that looks like a decent and balanced statement, however it is the bit in bold that is all that is wrong with the whole situation. There should be no question of trying to accomodate Rangers. It should be 'oldco dead, newco start again'.

Exactly. The bit in bold you refer to is simply the indefatigable ( thanks George) mindset of the hierarchy of the game in Scotland.

[PatHead]

SFL Statement

YOUR GAME–YOUR CLUB–YOUR FUTURE

The Scottish Football League, for the last number of days, has been involved in intensive discussions with The Scottish Premier League, The Scottish Football Association and other crucial stakeholders in our game, to try and address, in a positive way, the current critical issues affecting our game.

The Scottish Football League will today send a briefing document to its member clubs – a logical and positive communication which will hopefully eliminate some of the understandable doubt, threats and insecurities that are apparent within the game at the moment. The consultation document will fully explain the short and long-term benefits of a number of scenarios which we will be considering at a full Club Meeting next week.

The Scottish Football League is trying to address the question of whether we are in a position to accommodate a solution to the Rangers F.C. scenario. We are trying to achieve a solution which will be in the best interests of The Scottish Football League and the wider game.

David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL
28th June, 2012.

As long as the title sums it up. Fans must be at the centre of any decision which has to be SFL3. Other than that the game is finished.

[JohnStephens91]

How can we relegate something that does not exist?

[Caversham Green]

I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the BBC report - I think it has been fed to them by the proven liar Green (copyright that Leggo bloke). Yet again it boils down to two interpretations of the "Rangers" position, anything in between can't logically be defended IMO.

Sevco are a continuation of Rangers FC - that means they can keep their history but must answer for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute and concealed payments to players. They've already been found guilty of the first charge and there is strong evidence in support of the second. This can only result in suspension from the game for at least a year, which combined with a vote to approve the transfer of the SPL share would see them relegated to SFL1 at the end of the coming season. That would mean at least two seasons out of the SPL assuming they survived a year in the wilderness. My personal view is that this would be an acceptable approach, but no doubt others would disagree with me.
Sevco are a new club with no links to Rangers FC - They would lose their history and escape the charges mentioned above, but would have to take a new club's place in the Scottish football hierarchy. Entry into the first division should be out of the question in those circumstances and even entry into the third division would be something of a fudge, although it seems to be an acceptable one to most - that is for the SFL to decide.

I honestly can't see any logical, legal or moral reasons for any approach between those two and the Scottish game would be shown up as corrupt if it chose such an approach IMO.

[Wat Dabney]

Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the previous club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge


So if a club, say one that Rangers knocked out of a Champions League Qualifier, were to sue Rangers(ia) £10m for loss of earnings due to Rangers dual contract cheating. What would happen then?

They could't afford it and would go into admin again!!!! :rolleyes:

[chippy]

Before we blast Petrie and Hibs too much here I'm wondering if he and the SFA ( Regan) within which he is a big player may actually have played a blinder. Lets face it Hibs, Herts and most of the rebel 10 have newco and to a much lesser extent Celtic by the short and curlies. They can scrap the 11-1 nonsense anytime they want and can drive through expanded leagues if they so desire. Newco and their old partners who have dined out on the stupidy small SPL for 20 years or so. The Express are reporting 2 options for league reconstruction ( not sure if in the SFL document above) which would certainly satisfy me and bring back real competition to our game. One is 3 off 14 team leagues, from the new season with newco in 2cd tier (tear!!). Not bad with probable 6/8 or 8/6 or 7/7 split. Bairns Pars, Dees all in. But much much better in my view is the Belgian Pro league model of 16 teams. This is a trifle complicated but once you get your head round it it appears brilliant. The normal season is 30 games. Then they split into a top 6 A group and play each other twice each again as a play off for the title, and Euro places. The best thing for me is that points do not carry forward and the 10 games decide it. Can you imagine the crowds, tv interest in these play offs? What about the rest of the league. It gets better, teams ranked 7 -14 split into 2 mini leagues, play each other twice. Group winners play home and away to be get a shot at a Europa league play off. Again great attracion for crowds and tv. The last section is the relegation play off between teams 15 and 16, they play each other 5 times, team that wins the most games is saved . Wow i say bring it on
Why not a treble 14 team set up this season - no litigation from anyone denied promotion and then go for the Belgian model 2013/14.

The question is has our Rod and his allies in the SFA , probably including Herts, Dons, United, Regan possibly pulled off the coup we all thought would never come. I could accept the newco into tier 2 along with other sanctions if one of these models is offered up and fairer distribution of monies. Stripping of titles, etc.

Lets wait and see and not blast RP just yet. This could be a key turning point. I hope so cause if we contiue with 11-1, spl 12 or spl 10 i will be giving up on it and getting the golf clubs out from the hut.

[Captain Trips]

I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the BBC report - I think it has been fed to them by the proven liar Green (copyright that Leggo bloke). Yet again it boils down to two interpretations of the "Rangers" position, anything in between can't logically be defended IMO.

Sevco are a continuation of Rangers FC - that means they can keep their history but must answer for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute and concealed payments to players. They've already been found guilty of the first charge and there is strong evidence in support of the second. This can only result in suspension from the game for at least a year, which combined with a vote to approve the transfer of the SPL share would see them relegated to SFL1 at the end of the coming season. That would mean at least two seasons out of the SPL assuming they survived a year in the wilderness. My personal view is that this would be an acceptable approach, but no doubt others would disagree with me.
Sevco are a new club with no links to Rangers FC - They would lose their history and escape the charges mentioned above, but would have to take a new club's place in the Scottish football hierarchy. Entry into the first division should be out of the question in those circumstances and even entry into the third division would be something of a fudge, although it seems to be an acceptable one to most - that is for the SFL to decide.

I honestly can't see any logical, legal or moral reasons for any approach between those two and the Scottish game would be shown up as corrupt if it chose such an approach IMO.

With you 100%

[swordin]

Is it small wonder everyone is delighted to trod on the "Glasgow Giant's" after listening to them for over 40 years and watching them take all the other clubs players,bleat about giving them extra time for european games so they can earn more money to take even more of our players. Not to mention the arrogance of their supporters, whos bigoted singing has stained the Scottish game for years acctually thinking they are one of the biggest and prestigious clubs in the world :faf: :na na:. I could mention at least two
clubs from every decent sized country in the world who have bigger supports and decent fans.The top six teams in Germany for starters have as big as or bigger crowds. They are a small fish in an ever decreasingly small pond. Lets prove we can survive and prosper without the "big club" and with a bit of luck we can get rid of the other half in Glasgow aswell in the new shake up in Scottish Football. :wink:

[greenlex]

I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the BBC report - I think it has been fed to them by the proven liar Green (copyright that Leggo bloke). Yet again it boils down to two interpretations of the "Rangers" position, anything in between can't logically be defended IMO.
Sevco are a continuation of Rangers FC - that means they can keep their history but must answer for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute and concealed payments to players. They've already been found guilty of the first charge and there is strong evidence in support of the second. This can only result in suspension from the game for at least a year, which combined with a vote to approve the transfer of the SPL share would see them relegated to SFL1 at the end of the coming season. That would mean at least two seasons out of the SPL assuming they survived a year in the wilderness. My personal view is that this would be an acceptable approach, but no doubt others would disagree with me.
Sevco are a new club with no links to Rangers FC - They would lose their history and escape the charges mentioned above, but would have to take a new club's place in the Scottish football hierarchy. Entry into the first division should be out of the question in those circumstances and even entry into the third division would be something of a fudge, although it seems to be an acceptable one to most - that is for the SFL to decide.
I honestly can't see any logical, legal or moral reasons for any approach between those two and the Scottish game would be shown up as corrupt if it chose such an approach IMO.
This

[JeMeSouviens]

I've said it could be more limiting.

A newco beinfg admitted to SFL 3 or equivalent could probably reappear sanction free, not owing any football debts and being untouchable to punishments for previous wrongs.

The could probably pretty quickly emerge through 2 or 3 divisions in quick succession.

Allowing them to be seen as a continuing club, and having to accept various conditions, could see them remain where they are or slide the leagues themselves.

They'd have to find the cash to pay Hearts and Vienna, they would be unable to sign anyone over 18 and they are still open to punishments about dual contracts and taking the SFA to court for example which could also come with points sanctions or stripping of previous titles and trophies.

The focus has just been on re-entering the league at the bottom, but perhaps that actually isn't the worst outome they could get?

The other upside of this would be the TV deal remains reasonably intact and we get a sensible league structure and revenue split.

I'm not saying that it will be a worse outcome for them, it just needs thought through and not dismissed because the sanction point could be very important.

I think this is probably right. The Huns will most likely lap up defiantly winning their way through the divisions. If they have to enter at D1 with what's left of their team just now, they may well struggle and the Huns will most definitely not lap up a struggling D1 side.

However, it recognises the new club as linked to the old one. Just wrong, imo.

[lapsedhibee]

Among the more obnoxious things that have come out of the BBC recently (Young, Traynor, Doddsy "Billy" Dodds) is the repeated phrase "Glasgow giants". I so want it to be true that Young's contract with the BBC is not being renewed, and hope fervently that Traynor and Dodds go the same way, but more than anything else I want to hear the disappearance of the phrase Glasgow giants when Nouveau Rongers are playing in front of 9,000 peepul in an echoey Ibrox. Slumbering minnows/dwarves/trolls/hobbits I won't mind quite so much.

[MB62]

I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the BBC report - I think it has been fed to them by the proven liar Green (copyright that Leggo bloke). Yet again it boils down to two interpretations of the "Rangers" position, anything in between can't logically be defended IMO.

Sevco are a continuation of Rangers FC - that means they can keep their history but must answer for the charges of bringing the game into disrepute and concealed payments to players. They've already been found guilty of the first charge and there is strong evidence in support of the second. This can only result in suspension from the game for at least a year, which combined with a vote to approve the transfer of the SPL share would see them relegated to SFL1 at the end of the coming season. That would mean at least two seasons out of the SPL assuming they survived a year in the wilderness. My personal view is that this would be an acceptable approach, but no doubt others would disagree with me.
Sevco are a new club with no links to Rangers FC - They would lose their history and escape the charges mentioned above, but would have to take a new club's place in the Scottish football hierarchy. Entry into the first division should be out of the question in those circumstances and even entry into the third division would be something of a fudge, although it seems to be an acceptable one to most - that is for the SFL to decide.

I honestly can't see any logical, legal or moral reasons for any approach between those two and the Scottish game would be shown up as corrupt if it chose such an approach IMO.


With you 100%


Me too, although I would add that if they take option 1, then debt due to other member clubs in the shape of outstanding transfer fees, have to be accepted by newco and paid in full at some point.

[Andy74]

This

Isn't point 1 largely what may be getting looked at here - which to me makes them more goosed then getting back in Div3 as a newco with no penalties.

[JohnStephens91]

Before we blast Petrie and Hibs too much here I'm wondering if he and the SFA ( Regan) within which he is a big player may actually have played a blinder. Lets face it Hibs, Herts and most of the rebel 10 have newco and to a much lesser extent Celtic by the short and curlies. They can scrap the 11-1 nonsense anytime they want and can drive through expanded leagues if they so desire. Newco and their old partners who have dined out on the stupidy small SPL for 20 years or so. The Express are reporting 2 options for league reconstruction ( not sure if in the SFL document above) which would certainly satisfy me and bring back real competition to our game. One is 3 off 14 team leagues, from the new season with newco in 2cd tier (tear!!). Not bad with probable 6/8 or 8/6 or 7/7 split. Bairns Pars, Dees all in. But much much better in my view is the Belgian Pro league model of 16 teams. This is a trifle complicated but once you get your head round it it appears brilliant. The normal season is 30 games. Then they split into a top 6 A group and play each other twice each again as a play off for the title, and Euro places. The best thing for me is that points do not carry forward and the 10 games decide it. Can you imagine the crowds, tv interest in these play offs? What about the rest of the league. It gets better, teams ranked 7 -14 split into 2 mini leagues, play each other twice. Group winners play home and away to be get a shot at a Europa league play off. Again great attracion for crowds and tv. The last section is the relegation play off between teams 15 and 16, they play each other 5 times, team that wins the most games is saved . Wow i say bring it on
Why not a treble 14 team set up this season - no litigation from anyone denied promotion and then go for the Belgian model 2013/14.

The question is has our Rod and his allies in the SFA , probably including Herts, Dons, United, Regan possibly pulled off the coup we all thought would never come. I could accept the newco into tier 2 along with other sanctions if one of these models is offered up and fairer distribution of monies. Stripping of titles, etc.

Lets wait and see and not blast RP just yet. This could be a key turning point. I hope so cause if we contiue with 11-1, spl 12 or spl 10 i will be giving up on it and getting the golf clubs out from the hut.

Or how about we all just say no and Newco go down the 3rd Division and then we can restructure the game without the prospect of Newco being in the top tier again the season after? Also a relegation play-off where two teams play each other 5 times? No thanks. There are better models to go by, We have 41 league teams at the moment, so we can have an 18 team top tier, 2 relegation spots and a relegation play off spot against the side who finish third in the division below and have two leagues of 12 below and invite Spartans in as Newco should be way down in a regional league.

[StevieC]

What proposal will the SPL Clubs actually be voting for/against on 4 July:dunno:

To transfer the SPL share to Newco.

They could still vote to transfer the share but then relegate Rangers to Division 1.

This would meet the club announcements of "No Newco in SPL".

The SFL clubs would have no say in this stitch-up because it isn't a Newco, it is a relegated "Rangers".

To prevent objections through the courts they would offer a £1m sweetener and an additional chance of promotion.

This "carve-up" might save the SKY deal .. until it transpires that Rangers dont win automatic promotion (although the additional play-off spots would be another chance for the hun to come up!).

The "carve-up" would mean Rangers had to pay their footballing debts .. thus keeping teams and FIFA off the SFA's case and out of their reserve funds.

The "carve-up" would appease all the hun apologists in the SFA hierarchy and the media.

If this comes to pass, it's a right kick in the baws for those supporters that have bought season tickets in the last week.

[StevieC]

How can we relegate something that does not exist?

By transferring their SPL share to Sevco on the 4th of July!

[Caversham Green]

Isn't point 1 largely what may be getting looked at here - which to me makes them more goosed then getting back in Div3 as a newco with no penalties.

If what we're hearing is accurate, they will be considered a continuation but the punishment would be confined to relegation without a suspension - that doesn't seem enough to me and I reckon I'm being fairly moderate. It would also require the SPL chairmen going back on their word to block the transfer of the SPL share.

[Emerald]

To transfer the SPL share to Newco.

They could still vote to transfer the share but then relegate Rangers to Division 1.

This would meet the club announcements of "No Newco in SPL".

The SFL clubs would have no say in this stitch-up because it isn't a Newco, it is a relegated "Rangers".

To prevent objections through the courts they would offer a £1m sweetener and an additional chance of promotion.

This "carve-up" might save the SKY deal .. until it transpires that Rangers dont win automatic promotion (although the additional play-off spots would be another chance for the hun to come up!).

The "carve-up" would mean Rangers had to pay their footballing debts .. thus keeping teams and FIFA off the SFA's case and out of their reserve funds.

The "carve-up" would appease all the hun apologists in the SFA hierarchy and the media.

If this comes to pass, it's a right kick in the baws for those supporters that have bought season tickets in the last week.

The last week and the past 20 years.

[green glory]

Among the more obnoxious things that have come out of the BBC recently (Young, Traynor, Doddsy "Billy" Dodds) is the repeated phrase "Glasgow giants". I so want it to be true that Young's contract with the BBC is not being renewed, and hope fervently that Traynor and Dodds go the same way, but more than anything else I want to hear the disappearance of the phrase Glasgow giants when Nouveau Rongers are playing in front of 9,000 peepul in an echoey Ibrox. Slumbering minnows/dwarves/trolls/hobbits I won't mind quite so much.

The only Tolkienesque references I'll tolerate in relation to the Hun is orcs or maggot-folk. The dwarves and hobbits are proud distinguished peoples. Glad that's all sorted. 👌

[Jim44]

I've just read something about the transfer/signing embargo. I thought this no longer applied since it was thrown back as being illegal and not a proper stated sanction?

[PatHead]

I've just read something about the transfer/signing embargo. I thought this no longer applied since it was thrown back as being illegal and not a proper stated sanction?

The embargo would have applied to Rangers before liquidation. As newco don't have a licence surely they can't sign anyone so an embargo of sorts will exist

[StevieC]

If there is any truth in any of this, it needs 22 votes out of 29.
Step away from the valium, guys.

Unless the chairmen vote to transfer the SPL share to Newco and immediately relegate them .. as per their "No to Newco in the SPL" statements. :rolleyes:

[JohnStephens91]

By transferring their SPL share to Sevco on the 4th of July!

If that happens then the whole of Scottish football will be robbed of any integrity. It will be nothing short of a joke. It should be a no and then they should try and apply for the spot in the SFL like every other team who has been liquidated has had to do.

[Jim44]

The embargo would have applied to Rangers before liquidation. As newco don't have a licence surely they can't sign anyone so an embargo of sorts will exist

If the stitch up is going ahead will they not be granted a licence as a matter of course? Will they not then be able to sign who they want? Maybe even get back some of their 'lost' players?

[green glory]

If the Oldhun SPL is to be relegated to allow these proposals to go ahead, it first needs to be transferred to the Newhun, which we now know isn't going to happen.

IMO it's just more obfuscation by every other club, another wary sidestep to allow enough time for Newhun to be stillborn.

Any discussion of Newhun's place in ANY league is solely dependant on their ability to even have a functioning club, which at this moment in time is looking impossible.

[Hibees07]

Disgusted if this is true especially if our Rod is a main player in the plan.

I have already purchased season tickets so I will continue to go but it will be my last season if this plan is implemented.

After the statement from the board stating that they were voting 'No' to the Newco this has come as a real bombshell, I hope Petrie is aware of the possible backlash.

[green glory]

Disgusted if this is true especially if our Rod is a main player in the plan.

I have already purchased season tickets so I will continue to go but it will be my last season if this plan is implemented.

After the statement from the board stating that they were voting 'No' to the Newco this has come as a real bombshell, I hope Petrie is aware of the possible backlash.

The clubs aren't going to vote to transfer the share to Newhun now. Don't worry.

[PatHead]

If the stitch up is going ahead will they not be granted a licence as a matter of course? Will they not then be able to sign who they want? Maybe even get back some of their 'lost' players?

I would think there is no reason that couldn't do that..........

[Caversham Green]

BTW, I see a lot of people saying the SFL vote would be 22 out of 29 - why isn't it 22 out of 30?

[Spike Mandela]

BTW, I see a lot of people saying the SFL vote would be 22 out of 29 - why isn't it 22 out of 30?

Guessing that by time of vote Dundee will be an SPL club? Thus a vacancy.

[GordonHFC]

BTW, I see a lot of people saying the SFL vote would be 22 out of 29 - why isn't it 22 out of 30?

Isnt it because another team would be promoted to the vacant SPL place before a place becomes available in the SFL ?

[Caversham Green]

Guessing that by time of vote Dundee will be an SPL club? Thus a vacancy.

Ah, that kinda makes sense - thanks.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Unless the chairmen vote to transfer the SPL share to Newco and immediately relegate them .. as per their "No to Newco in the SPL" statements. :rolleyes:

The problem with this is that "relegating" Rangers is part of an overall package that has to be voted on, which requires an 11-1 majority. So there must be a SPL vote of some description.

[Gatecrasher]

The shysters running Scottish football aren't seeing another penny from me until they can prove to me they arent a bunch of self preserving money grabbing con men taking us all for a ride, I'm seriously pissed off just now.

[Matty_Jack04]

The shysters running Scottish football aren't seeing another penny from me until they can prove to me they arent a bunch of self preserving money grabbing con men taking us all for a ride, I'm seriously pissed off just now.

What he said

[Hibs On Tour]

Am I missing something here?
if
Whatever happened to this SFA rule whereby to participate in the SPL you needed to be in possession of the Uefa Standard License? Given that oldco Rangers lost theirs and newco Rangers can't get one until they have 3 years trading accounts, ergo you'd assume no SPL for at least 3 years no? Their SPL share should then just get passed onto either Dunfemline or Dundee [**** knows how you argue that one out] and in the meantime newco Rangers have to apply to SFL for entry to Div3 [yes I hear the calls about even lower down the chain...]

For one, I've been scratching my heads as to why the rest of the SPL clubs were even being asked about allowing newco Rangers straight in as it would require a rule change by the SFA in that case? Unless its Doncasters way of trying to deflect flak from Rangers about it onto the other clubs? With regards them going straight into Div1, I've no idea whether theres a rule allowing this in the SFL or not but would suspect that clubs denied access to the SFL previously and those in Div2 and 3 will kick up **** [rightly] if that's the case.

Beginning to scratch my head at this as its getting more and more obviously crooked, particularly if they try to tack on the much needed and long overdue league rejigging as part of it but because it gets them back to the top table ahead of schedule. Reorganise it yes - put them at the bottom where the rules say they should go - everyone starts over.

Or was this rule about needing the Uefa License just a myth in the first place? Or if it wasn't have we just all given up on rules entirely? I for one will be livid with Hibs if they're part of rejigging with the pay-off being Rangers getting a leg-up. No need for any individual club to get any favourable treatment and certainly should have nothing to do with the rejig.

Heid is spinning with it all now...

GGTTH

[gbur123ukgb]

The clubs aren't going to vote to transfer the share to Newhun now. Don't worry.
if hibs do in finished with spl and sfa for ever

[Just Alf]

If the stitch up is going ahead will they not be granted a licence as a matter of course? Will they not then be able to sign who they want? Maybe even get back some of their 'lost' players?

Part of the "deal" seems to be that they've to accept all responsibility for Old RFC...... they specifically mentioned footy debts and (at the moment at least!) .... footy debt = transfer embargo

[Spike Mandela]

Part of the "deal" seems to be that they've to accept all responsibility for Old RFC...... they specifically mentioned footy debts and (at the moment at least!) .... footy debt = transfer embargo

Not sure about that. Money to Hearts and Vienna maybe but nothing in statement about accepting oldco sanctions.

[Lungo--Drom]

In all seriousness Inchy that is probably one of the most sensible things I have ever heard. Let the two of them play each other week in week out and keep the whole 'queen's loyal british club' versus 'those troublesome green clad tarrier plastic paddy club' circus to itself. That way the rest of the teams in the SPL and SFL and below that can get on with the FOOTBALL :)


...We would be better with a separate Division of both Celtic and Rangers and let them play each other 36 times a year.

[woodythehibee]

Aberdeen chairman Stewart Milne says ''Rangers should be treated like any other club applying to join the Scottish Football League.''

Spot on!

[Emerald]

If the authorities bend or change the rules, or do anything to help old Rangers or the Newco then it will be Scottish Football's disgrace. They MUST do the right thing now or its the end for the Scottish game. The vast majority of fans of all other clubs see this as the final straw if all we are doing is facilitating the old firm, giving them someone to play in order to win titles and play in Europe. We are the cannon fodder for these people and if its allowed to go on after this, the baw, as they say, is burst. Even most of the Rangers fans are asking to go to the 3rd division to try and start a clean slate (haha).

Just imangine the season after next listeneing to Gordon Smith slavering on about how good Rangers were when they beat us 4 nil at Ibrox. Some sporting intgrity that will be. Kill the beast. :aok:

[Andy74]

I'm coming round to the idea of keeping Rangers half alive as a first division plaything, with the promise of more punishments, not being able to sign players and probably further demotion.

To me it beats just allowing them back as a totally new club at the bottom, being able to sign who they want and escaping any further punishment on ongoing investigations.

[jgl07]

Radio 5 live reports that the SFL have denied any agreement has been reached about Rangers coming into Division One.

[Lungo--Drom]

My season ticket will be going in the post straight to the Board of Hibs. I am not prepared to spend a season sitting watching WWF football. Life is too short for that kind of fraud. I'll just find another sport to enjoy.


Disgusted if this is true especially if our Rod is a main player in the plan.

I have already purchased season tickets so I will continue to go but it will be my last season if this plan is implemented.

After the statement from the board stating that they were voting 'No' to the Newco this has come as a real bombshell, I hope Petrie is aware of the possible backlash.

[Just Alf]

Not sure about that. Money to Hearts and Vienna maybe but nothing in statement about accepting oldco sanctions.

I was meaning this bit....

"•Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the previous club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge "


mind you, that's from the BBC website so prob needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt! :wink:

[Spike Mandela]

I was meaning this bit....

"•Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the previous club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge "


mind you, that's from the BBC website so prob needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt! :wink:

That's what I mean Sir Alf. I am no lawyer but debts and fines incurred but no mention of oldco sanctions.

Do you mean the legal challenge bit? Do you think this referes to the previous legal challenge regarding the embargo? My reading of that was no legal challenge to accepting debts and fines.

[Brando7]

Am I missing something here?
if
Whatever happened to this SFA rule whereby to participate in the SPL you needed to be in possession of the Uefa Standard License? Given that oldco Rangers lost theirs and newco Rangers can't get one until they have 3 years trading accounts, ergo you'd assume no SPL for at least 3 years no? Their SPL share should then just get passed onto either Dunfemline or Dundee [**** knows how you argue that one out] and in the meantime newco Rangers have to apply to SFL for entry to Div3 [yes I hear the calls about even lower down the chain...]

For one, I've been scratching my heads as to why the rest of the SPL clubs were even being asked about allowing newco Rangers straight in as it would require a rule change by the SFA in that case? Unless its Doncasters way of trying to deflect flak from Rangers about it onto the other clubs? With regards them going straight into Div1, I've no idea whether theres a rule allowing this in the SFL or not but would suspect that clubs denied access to the SFL previously and those in Div2 and 3 will kick up **** [rightly] if that's the case.

Beginning to scratch my head at this as its getting more and more obviously crooked, particularly if they try to tack on the much needed and long overdue league rejigging as part of it but because it gets them back to the top table ahead of schedule. Reorganise it yes - put them at the bottom where the rules say they should go - everyone starts over.

Or was this rule about needing the Uefa License just a myth in the first place? Or if it wasn't have we just all given up on rules entirely? I for one will be livid with Hibs if they're part of rejigging with the pay-off being Rangers getting a leg-up. No need for any individual club to get any favourable treatment and certainly should have nothing to do with the rejig.

Heid is spinning with it all now...

GGTTH

As you say any SPL have 3 years trading accounts, So if they do allow Newco to go to the 1st and they win the league they surely not be allowed promotion as they do not meet SPL requirements?

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm coming round to the idea of keeping Rangers half alive as a first division plaything, with the promise of more punishments, not being able to sign players and probably further demotion.

To me it beats just allowing them back as a totally new club at the bottom, being able to sign who they want and escaping any further punishment on ongoing investigations.

I predict that if this plan goes ahead the signing embargo will be dropped. They will tell FIFA that the relegation is a punishment greater than the embargo.

[jdships]

Stop and think about this for a minute .
As far as SFA /Div 1 clubs are concerned this is all simply about short term benefit .
They vote them into Div 1 , get two home games where the hordes will descend and give them two decent paydays ( by their standards) .
After a season they are promoted (?) and " Team 12" are someone elses problem.:wink:
Sorry I don't buy into this at all .
Let the rules apply as to any to other club . they apply for membership and if that request is granted they start in Div 3.
If the SFA/SPL or whoever hasn't the b...s to work by the rules then Scottish football will be a bigger joke than it is at 28/6/2012
:rolleyes:

[HFC 0-7]

As you say any SPL have 3 years trading accounts, So if they do allow Newco to go to the 1st and they win the league they surely not be allowed promotion as they do not meet SPL requirements?

I mentioned the same thing a few posts ago and I think the rule would probably be revised following league restructuring.

[Andy74]

I predict that if this plan goes ahead the signing embargo will be dropped. They will tell FIFA that the relegation is a punishment greater than the embargo.

Not so sure, I think relegation would be seen as a trade off for not treating them as a new enity and having to start again. (Not that I'm sure that relegation is even possible for them)

There are still other investigations ongoing for which punishments should be very severe.

These would presumably fall away with everyone's favoutite solution in allowing them to join as a newco in SFL 3.

[erin go bragh]

1st div clubs on newco joining them.

Cowdenbeath ..yes [no surprise there as guess who their chairman is ]

Dunbarton .. undecided

Dundee .. undecided

Dunfermline..undecided

Falkirk..no

Hamilton..undecided

Livingston..undecided

Morton..no

Partick Thistle..undecided

Raith Rovers no

3rd div or the juniors :agree:


ggtth

[matty_f]

I predict that if this plan goes ahead the signing embargo will be dropped. They will tell FIFA that the relegation is a punishment greater than the embargo.

That's my take on it as well. They can't simply decide to relegate oldco Rangers without a reason for it. Oldco Rangers still have their share (and with it, I presume rights) until the vote on the 4th July.

If they are relegated prior to that date, as far as I can tell the need for the SPL clubs to vote in (or not) newco Rangers is gone. They are not the SFL's problem.

If the SFL clubs vote newco Rangers into the SFL 1, with the proviso that newco Rangers take the punishments due to oldco, along with the sweeteners for the TV deal, then this goes ahead and we'll all have been royally stitched up big style.

Rangers have a season in the First, then come back toot-sweet and strong as ever a season later.

Meanwhile, hopefully if that happens the rest of us give Scottish football the big **** you.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not so sure, I think relegation would be seen as a trade off for not treating them as a new enity and having to start again. (Not that I'm sure that relegation is even possible for them)

There are still other investigations ongoing for which punishments should be very severe.

These would presumably fall away with everyone's favoutite solution in allowing them to join as a newco in SFL 3.

I wouldn't trust the authorities to deal out any other punishments once they are safely in SFL 1. They have done their damnedest to keep them in the SPL, what makes you think they have the balls to inflict more punishment on the great institution?

This needs finishing now, and the only way is to adhere the rules as set out at this minute in time. FFS even those have to be bent a little to let them in Div 3.

[matty_f]

Has anyone that's emailed Hibs about this had a reply yet? :dunno:

[ancient hibee]

So you screw all the teams in the league you play in and that league then gives you a million quid-seems fair to me:confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

So you screw all the teams in the league you play in and that league then gives you a million quid-seems fair to me:confused:

Only in Scotland. :rolleyes:

[ancient hibee]

If the stitch up is going ahead will they not be granted a licence as a matter of course? Will they not then be able to sign who they want? Maybe even get back some of their 'lost' players?

They've no money.

[matty_f]

So you screw all the teams in the league you play in and that league then gives you a million quid-seems fair to me:confused:

It's ludicrous, isn't it?

The only flip side is that it's the SPL clubs that will benefit from selling the rights to SKY or whoever wants to watch SFL1, while the other SFL clubs take a shafting because they'll get a fraction of the £1m sweetener money and that's it.

The whole thing is fuelled by greed and money. From top to bottom, there is no sporting integrity. Just shafting folk left, right and centre for the purposes of making the rich clubs richer.

Quite why we should be bending over backwards for Green, who's sole intention is to take money OUT of the Scottish game and into his own pockets, I do not know.

[HFC 0-7]

I'm coming round to the idea of keeping Rangers half alive as a first division plaything, with the promise of more punishments, not being able to sign players and probably further demotion.

To me it beats just allowing them back as a totally new club at the bottom, being able to sign who they want and escaping any further punishment on ongoing investigations.

Andy I would say that if the authorities are going to all this trouble to get them into division 1 they won't waste it by suddenly announcing the outcome of the dual contracts and having to take further action. If they went o division 3 they would struggle financially. Hey would have to completely change, the fans wouldn't come flooding in and inbox would become a costly stadium to run in division 3 as would Murray park. I have no doubts that this scenario should it actually happen will benefit rangers much more than division 3 would.

[Zondervan]

Now they are (allegedly) threatening to blackmail the SFL teams:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/

If true, it is a disgrace - all to save the cheating Huns. And the SPL chairmen are a bunch of snakes if they have even contemplated this in the circumstances.

If anything, this whole Newco scenario has brought the non-Old Firm fans together.

[matty_f]

SPL statement below, doesn't tell us much though it does still refer to the vote on July 4th:

Press Statement ~ SPL UpdateThe SPL today held constructive talks with 11 member clubs ahead of the General Meeting on 4 July.

Following today’s meeting, the SPL will continue to work with the Scottish FA and SFL to discuss the best way forward for Scottish football.

All member clubs will meet on 4 July to formally decide whether to approve the transfer of Rangers FC share.

[matty_f]

Now they are (allegedly) threatening to blackmail the SFL teams:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/

If true, it is a disgrace - all to save the cheating Huns. And the SPL chairmen are a bunch of snakes if they have even contemplated this in the circumstances.

If anything, this whole Newco scenario has brought the non-Old Firm fans together.


:agree:

These ******* will kill the Scottish game with this.

[Kyle A]

"SPL threaten breakaway second tier if clubs do not agree to Rangers plans"

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/


Games a bogey!

[EdinMike]

20 odd years of cheating and trophies for 1 year out of the picture and no debts !?!

You listening Petrie !?!

Of course Hibs (or any other team) Wouldn't be given this leniency, bar Celtic...

[Hibs7]

All honest supporters should boycott all games if this goes ahead, no supporters and they would soon rethink.

In fact all supporters associations should bombard the SPL condemning this plan. Sickening !!

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree:

These ******* will kill the Scottish game with this.

But Matty Hibs voted no, everythings fine. :rolleyes: I believe you are right, this whole episode with rangers, has shown the world, but more importantly, its shown the supporters of every non old firm club, we are only in Scottish football to make the numbers up.

The authorities have taken the piss out of each and every one of us, with their pandering to Rangers.

I believe the games ****ed now, and A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE BACK. And thats a result of the actions of those in charge at the top of Scottish footballs.

[truehibernian]

Now they are (allegedly) threatening to blackmail the SFL teams:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/

If true, it is a disgrace - all to save the cheating Huns. And the SPL chairmen are a bunch of snakes if they have even contemplated this in the circumstances.

If anything, this whole Newco scenario has brought the non-Old Firm fans together.

Absolutely nothing surprises me with this move from Doncaster. What better promotion of SPL2 than to have Rangers, the media frenzy surrounding them, the no doubt season long saga of who owns them, who wants to buy them, court battles and more.

It means the concept hits the ground running and obtains the media spotlight all year.

Utterly disgraceful, corrupt and morally unacceptable and unpalatable - sums up Scottish football don't you think.

Sadly though it's what many thought would happen. Fans are secondary, money is king. They should hang their heads in shame - how ignorant do they think we are ?

[Sylar]

1st div clubs on newco joining them.

Cowdenbeath ..yes [no surprise there as guess who their chairman is ]

Dunbarton .. undecided

Dundee .. undecided

Dunfermline..undecided

Falkirk..no

Hamilton..undecided

Livingston..undecided

Morton..no

Partick Thistle..undecided

Raith Rovers no

3rd div or the juniors :agree:


ggtth

Livingston came out at the start of this whole sorry saga and said they would be watching the unfolding situation with beady eyes to ensure the rule book was as rigidly enforced as it was when the SFL chose to relegate them to the third division.

I'd assume they're still very much in the "no" camp.

[Cropley10]

I like the bit near the beginning of part 3 where I am pretty sure he says, "This club is going from strength to strength." WTF? He's either "McF****n Mad" (to paraphrase a Hun the other day talking about Vlad) or he's had one or ten cans of Tennents too many :O
Thank you John Brown. I listened to just a few minutes of his shambolic sub-fascist cretinous uber-nonsense on the steps of the Hoose of Bigness to the assembled riffraff, and thought to myself, what in the name of God can anyone possibly ever do or say on behalf of Rangers that could be more cringeworthy, more embarrassing than this mental case was coming away with.

And I was completely stumped.

[Andy74]

SPL statement below, doesn't tell us much though it does still refer to the vote on July 4th:

Press Statement ~ SPL UpdateThe SPL today held constructive talks with 11 member clubs ahead of the General Meeting on 4 July.

Following today’s meeting, the SPL will continue to work with the Scottish FA and SFL to discuss the best way forward for Scottish football.

All member clubs will meet on 4 July to formally decide whether to approve the transfer of Rangers FC share.

I still really can't put together the statements made last week by chairman with the fact they are all plotting to get them in the SFL1 or an SPL2.

There has to be more to this, they aren't that stupid are they??

[Baldy Foghorn]

Livingston came out at the start of this whole sorry saga and said they would be watching the unfolding situation with beady eyes to ensure the rule book was as rigidly enforced as it was when the SFL chose to relegate them to the third division.

I'd assume they're still very much in the "no" camp.

I am sure I read somewhere Livingston would be watching the situation closely, with the possibility of legal action against our governing body, if Derhun did not receive the harshest penalties possible....

[Andy74]

Thank you John Brown. I listened to just a few minutes of his shambolic sub-fascist cretinous uber-nonsense on the steps of the Hoose of Bigness to the assembled riffraff, and thought to myself, what in the name of God can anyone possibly ever do or say on behalf of Rangers that could be more cringeworthy, more embarrassing than this mental case was coming away with.

And I was completely stumped.

What about the BNP boy that got involved? The murder of Rangers due to a Sectarian agenda.

[joe breezy]

I still really can't put together the statements made last week by chairman with the fact they are all plotting to get them in the SFL1 or an SPL2.

There has to be more to this, they aren't that stupid are they??

Sounds like they're stupid - If i was a ST holder I certainly wouldn't be renewing with this cloud still ready to piss down on everyone

[Captain Trips]

STV news coming up stated in highlights "certain to be in Div1".

[JeMeSouviens]

Now they are (allegedly) threatening to blackmail the SFL teams:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/

If true, it is a disgrace - all to save the cheating Huns. And the SPL chairmen are a bunch of snakes if they have even contemplated this in the circumstances.

If anything, this whole Newco scenario has brought the non-Old Firm fans together.

This is a new low (if true). :bitchy:

Shocking. We should be standing shoulder to shoulder with all the non-cheating clubs in Scotland, not elbowing half of them aside to suit son of cheats franchise FC. :rolleyes:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Apparently the SPL is threatening to set up SPL 2 (incl new Huns) if SFL votes against reform.

[JimBHibees]

Absolutely nothing surprises me with this move from Doncaster. What better promotion of SPL2 than to have Rangers, the media frenzy surrounding them, the no doubt season long saga of who owns them, who wants to buy them, court battles and more.

It means the concept hits the ground running and obtains the media spotlight all year.

Utterly disgraceful, corrupt and morally unacceptable and unpalatable - sums up Scottish football don't you think.

Sadly though it's what many thought would happen. Fans are secondary, money is king. They should hang their heads in shame - how ignorant do they think we are ?

Seems to be alot of hypotheticals and understood in these stories. Lets see how it pans out.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I still really can't put together the statements made last week by chairman with the fact they are all plotting to get them in the SFL1 or an SPL2.

There has to be more to this, they aren't that stupid are they??

Sounds like a carve up, SFA/SPL/SFL reconstruction purely to save Derhun....No way would this happen if it were any other team outwith the OF........Still pandering to the OF at every oppurtunity.....

[Captain Trips]

Getting sick of this, if it is old Rangers still trading fine Div 1 but with all the baggage, if Newco simple division 3 as per rules so no need for any headaches. If newco start in div 1 I will not be going back and I will be letting club know all about it.

[Mon Dieu4]

SPL statement below, doesn't tell us much though it does still refer to the vote on July 4th:

Press Statement ~ SPL UpdateThe SPL today held constructive talks with 11 member clubs ahead of the General Meeting on 4 July.

Following today’s meeting, the SPL will continue to work with the Scottish FA and SFL to discuss the best way forward for Scottish football.

All member clubs will meet on 4 July to formally decide whether to approve the transfer of Rangers FC share.

Sounds like we have all been suckered big time, we told them we didn't want the newco in the SPL and they did that, but now its all about the transfer of the share, absolutely scunnered by this and their bully boy tactics on the SFL teams, even though I've bought my season ticket if this comes off im done for good

[JimBHibees]

I am sure I read somewhere Livingston would be watching the situation closely, with the possibility of legal action against our governing body, if Derhun did not receive the harshest penalties possible....

As were Spartans if they werent allowed to apply for a Div 3 place. This all makes no sense and not sure exactly what the game is to be honest. A bit of details would be nice especially from the non-OF SPL clubs. Only comments I have seen was from Stuart Milne saying Rangers should be treated like any other club so dont know what is going on with all of this.

Dont have any issue with reorganisation however if it is reorganising for the sake of a corrupt club that has cheated then no thanks.

[ScottB]

This is a new low (if true). :bitchy:

Shocking. We should be standing shoulder to shoulder with all the non-cheating clubs in Scotland, not elbowing half of them aside to suit son of cheats franchise FC. :rolleyes:

Scandalous if true.

Why tack on that the newco will face the oldcos penalties when they are already saying they are 'too important' to be dealt with properly, so clearly they can't be expelled / suspended / transfer embargoed etc.

If Rangers are in the division below the SPL next season with a couple token fines and having to repay the pittance in terms of their previous overall debt that they owe to football clubs then this club and Scottish football in general can go to hell where it belongs.

[Argylehibby]

I think Petrie is gambling on the threats of the 'plebs' being empty hot air in the long run. He clearly values the Sky money and the financial oomph of Rangers more than the views and feelings of the heart of every club in Scotland. And before the Petrie apologists get in with the 'Petrie has a cunning plan ......' I choose for the moment to judge him guilty until he publicly refutes the BBC reports.

Petrie has a role at the SFA and I would imagine any meeting, if one did take place, with Green was in respect to that role and not as Chairman of Hibs. Like anyone else fulfilling a role within an organisation, unless you're running it there will be times when you have to do something that you dont necessarily agree with. If he did meet Green, and it was as a representative of the SFA, then there is no way that he will be able to publicly refute anything. It doesnt make him guilty of anything against Hibs, their fans either. Of course you may suggest that he should have resigned from his position with the SFA rather than meet Green but that would be a bit OTT.

I hope that you don't get asked to do jury duty by the way, not sure you have grasped the concept of innocent until proven guilty too well.

[WeAreHibs]

This has given me the boak !!

[Gatecrasher]

Did I just hear that right? If the sfl clubs reject then They will just set up an SPL 2?

[Hibbyradge]

Free of all the worry and disappointment of following Hibs for the first time since the 60's.

It's a new day, it's a new dawn, it's a new life for me...

And I'm feeling..resigned.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Did I just hear that right? If the sfl clubs reject then They will just set up an SPL 2?

Sounds right, STV saying they understand that plans being put in place to play in SFL, due to reconstruction.....Disgusting, carve up

[Brando7]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sporting-integrity-cannot-be-compromised/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign =button

[Spike Mandela]

Document sent out to clubs in full.......

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

[Spike Mandela]

Document sent out to clubs in full........

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

[Hibs90]

Proof that the authorities in Scotland are ****ing corrupt *******s. **** Scottish football if this happens by the way.

[SteveHFC]

SFA and SPL can **** off

[Gatecrasher]

Sounds right, STV saying they understand that plans being put in place to play in SFL, due to reconstruction.....Disgusting, carve up
Disgusting about covers it.

[Gatecrasher]

SFA and SPL can **** off
Your bloody right they can, I'm actually lost for words

[Baldy Foghorn]

Disgusting about covers it.

Just proves what everyone knew since inception.....Scottish Football is the OF, the rest do not matter one iota.....

[Captain Trips]

Sounds right, STV saying they understand that plans being put in place to play in SFL, due to reconstruction.....Disgusting, carve up

So would Rod Petrie and other chairmen be involved in this carve up?

[Jack]

Petrie has a role at the SFA and I would imagine any meeting, if one did take place, with Green was in respect to that role and not as Chairman of Hibs. Like anyone else fulfilling a role within an organisation, unless you're running it there will be times when you have to do something that you dont necessarily agree with. If he did meet Green, and it was as a representative of the SFA, then there is no way that he will be able to publicly refute anything. It doesnt make him guilty of anything against Hibs, their fans either. Of course you may suggest that he should have resigned from his position with the SFA rather than meet Green but that would be a bit OTT.

I hope that you don't get asked to do jury duty by the way, not sure you have grasped the concept of innocent until proven guilty too well.

I'm hoping this is in reference to the chat the other Friday.

If there is honesty in the system as portrayed by our leader then Green will have left with his agenda in tatters.

Its not to say entry to whatever division was on Greens agenda. I only hope that Rod, on behalf of the SFA, put him straight on the requirements.

[Dalkeith]

"Moral/sporting question vs financial collapse"

[Baldy Foghorn]

So would Rod Petrie and other chairmen be involved in this carve up?

RP would have sat on panel in his SFA role.....

[Zondervan]

Document sent out to clubs in full.......

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

Some of the statements in that are embarrassing.

It now appears obvious that the SPL clubs are in favour of what is proposed; but to prove me wrong, I wonder if Hearts, Hibs, United, Aberdeen, Saints and Inverness will release statements to the contrary (aye right smiley).

Looks like the "No to Newco" propaganda of the last week or so is just part of the greater conspiracy to save The Huns.

[Gatecrasher]

Just proves what everyone knew since inception.....Scottish Football is the OF, the rest do not matter one iota.....
Proof if it were ever needed :agree:

[stokesmessiah]

I am disgusted.

Ppl talk about Sporting Integrity as the reasoning to kick the huns out of the SPL and then threaten scottish football to do as they are told to accommodate the cheats who made this whole mess.

Someone better come out soon and deny this is true. I for one am horrified that our national game is becoming the national disgust.

[degenerated]

Your bloody right they can, I'm actually lost for words

I'm not. They can stick professional Fitba up there collective ***** and I'll find something else to do at whatever kick off times that sky dictate.

[hibsmum]

Sickening!

[Mon Dieu4]

Document sent out to clubs in full........

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

Deary me, Goebbels couldn't have done a better job

[GreenCastle]

wow....just wow....http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

They are actually bending over backwards to allow them a "solution" - it shouldn't be a solution but a punishment.

Game is corrupt if this actually goes through :fuming:

3 out of the 5 scenarios shouldn't even have been discussed! Div 3 or a suspension are the only ones that make sense.

[brythehibby]

I actually can't believe what i just read. Just as it seemed the bowing down to the old firm would stop forever it's just been taken to a new level.

[Brando7]

Document sent out to clubs in full........

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

I feel the need to print that off n wipe my a.rse wi it........ragin!!

[truehibernian]

"Moral/sporting question vs financial collapse"

Yet interestingly enough they don't detail why commercial deals currently in place will be lost, nor do they break down this '£16 million lost from the game'.

Doncaster never ever has been transparent or honest about the Sky deal or any other deal should Rangers liquidate.

This is a carve up and uses smoke, mirrors and unsubstantiated threats.

Doncaster and Regan - start answering questions honestly and enough of this mystery. And Rod Petrie - explain your involvement in this process. I know you read this forum - you have some explaining to do and preferably now !

[Weir7]

Did I just hear that right? If the sfl clubs reject then They will just set up an SPL 2?
You did. More rules would have to be broken as you have to serve 2 years notice to leave your league

[WindyMiller]

Certainly no knee-jerk reactions on this thread!


:rolleyes:

The usual culprits jumping on Petrie's back, before putting their brains in gear.

[Weir7]

So would Rod Petrie and other chairmen be involved in this carve up?

You"ll find he could be at thge heart of it.

Hibs fans should Email him [email protected] asking him to come clean and where he stands

[Cabbage East]

If this proposal is accepted as is and Rangers are treated as a special case, I'm done with the SPL. Not a threat, but reality. These people need to get real and remember what sport is.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Sporting integrity, not by office bearers at Hampden

[Makaveli]

Deary me, Goebbels couldn't have done a better job

"Fans will be lost to the game forever" if the Huns are properly punished? Aye, wait and see what happens when you let them back in.

"Current reality: Rangers have no where [sic] to go" ... listed first, as if that's the big issue here. And loaded terms like "financial collapse," and "complete financial meltdown" utterly misrepresent the situation.

"Benefits: Immediate cash benefit for all 30 clubs!" the exclamation mark just seals it. Scottish football = unprofessional backwater operation run by and for the old boys network.

Giving them £1m when they owe the country >£100m? Bolt.

I'll tell you where I am... I'm out.

[The Green Goblin]

What will really stick in the craw if (IF) this "deal" for Div 1 turns out to be true, (and the threatening of SFL clubs to accept it) is the way those clubs who announced their intention to vote no made such a song and dance about fans buying STs "because they had announced they were voting 'no' and needed fans to come out and back them as a result". Again, we don't know for certain if a deal has been done, but there's increasingly signals coming out that it's not as far-fetched an idea as it first seemed, but how appallingly cynical will those clubs appear to be if they did that knowing such a deal was likely? Let's hope these suspicions are wide of the mark, because if they are not, then Scottish football will die with the current generation of fans.

[Twa Cairpets]

Document sent out to clubs in full.......

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

Well Spike, even I'm now thinking that this may come to pass.

If that is indeed the actual document, it is beyond contempt. Petrie, and the rest of the Hibs board, if you're looking in and you have any part in this traitorous compromise to assuage the wrongdoing of the Hun, you can, basically, f*** right off. Right now, I suspect the heaving boak that that "document" is will mean that I simply wont care, because you will have removed the entire reason for football existing as a professional sport.

[Zondervan]

Just done a general sweep of Twitter and other football message boards.

The overwhelming view is that Rangers will now be playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football next season; if the SFL clubs reject the proposal for Newco to SFL1, then the SPL clubs simply create SPL2 for Newco to parachute into.

And there is nothing the fans can now do, as the views from supporters of all teams have spectacularly been ignored.

[adhibs]

anyone of you realy care who'l be playing for hibs next season now? i certainly dont

[Hibs90]

SFL: No agreement made over Newco


http://www.itv.com/sport/football/news/sfl-no-agreement-made-over-newco-03809/


:confused:

[Dalianwanda]

I'll wait till I hear something concrete before going off on one..Its not as if the BBC have been that right before..

[Billie Jo]

I feel the need to print that off n wipe my a.rse wi it........ragin!!

Aye, pure ragin :agree:

[hibee_nation]

What a sickner, almost as bad as the cup final. I stupidly got 2 season tickets for cup final tickets. I don't give a **** if they parade McPake in the best new strip ever tomorrow i will never be back if my club supports this. :grr:

[brydekirk]

anyone of you realy care who'l be playing for hibs next season now? i certainly dont

Eh

[CallumLaidlaw]

anyone of you realy care who'l be playing for hibs next season now? i certainly dont

I am RAGING right now. Absolutely disgusted with the latest announcement. I really do wonder what the point is. I actually feel sick with anger

[NAE NOOKIE]

Ach ........ I'm getting fed up of the whole thing to be honest, as things stand at the moment I couldnt care less if The Rangers or whatever they want to call themselves are in the SPL or the Greasy Joe's pub league Glasgow next season.

If The Rangers are in div 1 and thousands of fans quit Scottish football as a result then the joke really will be on us in the end. Instead of their cheating destroying the game here ... which has now been outed and put a stop to ... we will do the job for them, because footballs idea of what constitutes a fitting punishment wasnt enough for us.

One day I can see myself driving past ER looking at the rusty padlocks holding the gates shut and the big for sale signs and saying to myself, the fans were right to stay away, that will teach those hun loving gits at Hibs.


Cheers

[Offside Trap]

Document sent out to clubs in full........

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/

Gobsmacked. I was 100% buying 4 season tickets for the family after the 4th July vote. Part to do with seeking to repay Hibs decision to vote no to NewCo...part because I have a bit of faith that Pat could do well for us given the right backing....part because I thought this was a watershed moment for Scottish football and a brighter future was possible. The document I've just read has absolutely sucked the life out of me. Petrie and his cohorts have been disingenuous to say the least with their public proclamations over last week. Largely irrelevant now whether their despicable little plan works or not - the intent was there and Hibs have now just lost c. £1600. Disgusted.

[blaikie]

What a sickner, almost as bad as the cup final. I stupidly got 2 season tickets for cup final tickets. I don't give a **** if they parade McPake in the best new strip ever tomorrow i will never be back if my club supports this. :grr:

+1 :agree:

[Del Boy]

If this comes to pass, I'm out.

[VickMackie]

I've been enjoying their demise for months.

Now I'm just scunnered.

GAME OVER

[WhileTheChief..]

That document is unbelievable.

it's absolutely sickening in every possible way.

Have we gone back to the 80s and moved to East Berlin?

This surely cannot be allowed to happen? How can they possibly get away with this? This is what, a dozen or so individuals that can make a decision of this magnitude??

Is bullying now acceptable in Scottish society? This has to be stopped. Time for politicains to get involved?

[Emerald]

I've just had a look around the other clubs fans forums and they are all in meltdown over this disgusting farce. The game is finished if this goes through. All the fans saying the same thing, whats the point of following a team in a corrupt league. This fiasco has really smoked out the rats and proved to us what we've always known anyway. They can shove it. :fuming:

[HH81]

Is everyone jumping the gun a bit here? Has hibs replied to anyone yet?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

It's beyond a joke now. I've already renewed STs for myself and my son, but I really wish I hadn't bothered.

I can't entertain the thought of that bigoted, cheating shower back in the SPL after a season.

[Lungo--Drom]

I've just read the proposal document.
Sickening disgusting corrupt pro-Hun filth. It's still all down to the one thing:
sleazy cash v's footballing integrity
Scottish football is clearly corrupt and will sell itself for anything. Like a crack whore selling hersel in a dirty alley to get money for another hit except this time its Scottish football selling itsel up an alley for another dose of TV and advertising money.
I never thought this day would come but whoever posted earlier about public awareness and new media channels got it spot on. We are not all just ignorant masses anymore who take the presribed media pill day after day and say thanks for it. When I was a kid there were 3 telly channels and most households bought one newspaper. Few doubted what their chosen news outlet told them. Nowadays there are so many ways to diseminate information and to express your views and pass them on to like minded people. These corrupt clowns must still think it is the 1970s and we are all daft and will just accept their twisted plan.
Well no, not me. Now I know the truth I can't sit at ER and watch a lie. If I want a lie I'll watch WWF, if I wan't corruption I'll buy shares in Barclays bank. For honest sport I'd rather play in a pub team.
This is make or break for Scottish football, but unless it follows the honest path of integrity then I'm off.

[blackpoolhibs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2dhD9zR6hk

[Gatecrasher]

It's beyond a joke now. I've already renewed STs for myself and my son, but I really wish I hadn't bothered.

I can't entertain the thought of that bigoted, cheating shower back in the SPL after a season.
Totally regretting renewing as well, I could have got an iPad instead :rolleyes:

[grunt]

I'm guessing this
Takes approximately £16 million out of the game is the Sky deal?

[Emerald]

Totally regretting renewing as well, I could have got an iPad instead :rolleyes:

If this goes through I'm sure you will be entitled to your money back. Thats what I'll be asking for. I might get an Ipad two. :greengrin

[murray26]

Are we entitled to refunds on our season tickets? if so thats what i'll be doing.

[mixumatosis]

I smell bull***.

What kind of a professional organisation types up something like that and includes "Immediate cash benefit for all 30 clubs!" with an exclamation mark. They might as well have added a smiley. Terms like "financial meltdown" belong in a tabloid headline, not a seriously considered proposal like this purports to be.

I'm not going to say 100 it's not genuine, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is being reproduced in the press without any great effort having been made to establish it's veracity.

[Gatecrasher]

If this goes through I'm sure you will be entitled to your money back. Thats what I'll be asking for. I might get an Ipad two. :greengrin
Here's hoping, but not getting my hopes up :no way:

[Col2]

I am RAGING right now. Absolutely disgusted with the latest announcement. I really do wonder what the point is. I actually feel sick with anger

Yup me to. Just hope it's not how it seems.

[Lungo--Drom]

Me too but these:

http://www.froyopad.com/ployer-momo9-star-lightsome-90-inch-tablet-pc-allwinner-a13-android-40-10ghz-ddr3512mb8gb-ips-capacitive_p668.html?zenid=uqj61unpm1s9qtd8g1npn8h fb2

are cheaper and a guy at my work bought two and said they are crackin kit. £18 postage from Hong Kong plus £9 VAT.


If this goes through I'm sure you will be entitled to your money back. Thats what I'll be asking for. I might get an Ipad two. :greengrin

[MCameron]

I am RAGING right now. Absolutely disgusted with the latest announcement. I really do wonder what the point is. I actually feel sick with anger

What announcement:confused:

[Dalianwanda]

Let's all take a breath...once we get some facts we can then decide on right, wrongs and actions..other forums are saying the same stuff but only because they are getting info from the same places..then looking at sites (like ours) that will back up what they have read...we don't know for a fact any of this is true, most of the stories are coming from sources who have been very wrong in the past

[ScottB]

If that's true, the game is dead in this country.

[SPL Fans Survey]

I was invited to do a phone interview with Russell Leadbetter for an article they are running in this weeks Sunday Herald on the Newco/SPL saga.

I took part and Russell sent me the interview in rough form and I have just emailed him to correct a couple of points but have added to it :

I have attached my reply be interesting to see if he adds to it.


Russell

Thanks for that however can I just correct you on something, in the original survey 52% said they would walk away which is correct, however later on you quote me as saying 60 to 70 % of fans responding to the first survey would have carried out their threat, I believe that what I said was that 60 to 70 % of the original 52 % would have followed through on their threat to walk away from Scottish Football.

Can you just add that fans are very angry about the proposal to relegate Rangers to the 1st division and if the clubs believe that this will appease the fans then they are very much mistaken and fans will go ahead with their boycott, that is the message which is coming across loud & clear on message boards.

A lot of fans feel betrayed by their clubs saying that they have said no to a Newco in the SPL yet are working in the background to fudge a comprimise for a club who not only cheated to gain an unfair sporting advantage but in their opinion no longer exist as the former RFC have been liquidated.

When you look at what happened to Gretna & Livingston who had financial troubles and where relegated to the bottom tier for a lot less than RFC have then you can understand why they feel that there appears to be no sporting integrity involved in this latest attempt to change the rules to benefit one club.

It is fair to say that there is also resistance from supporters of SFL 1 clubs to the proposal and it is inevitable that Scottish football will suffer if this motion goes ahead.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I wonder whether this story and document has been deliberately leaked to provoke a reaction?

:hmmm:

[virtualhibby]

If true, the only way to stop this is if all fans of SPL join up in protest.

[ScottB]

I smell bull***.

What kind of a professional organisation types up something like that and includes "Immediate cash benefit for all 30 clubs!" with an exclamation mark. They might as well have added a smiley. Terms like "financial meltdown" belong in a tabloid headline, not a seriously considered proposal like this purports to be.

I'm not going to say 100 it's not genuine, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is being reproduced in the press without any great effort having been made to establish it's veracity.

The sort of professional organisation that would table this blackmailing nonsense?

[SPL Fans Survey]

I was invited to do a phone interview with Russell Leadbetter for an article they are running in this weeks Sunday Herald on the Newco/SPL saga.

I took part and Russell sent me the interview in rough form and I have just emailed him to correct a couple of points but have added to it :

I have attached my reply be interesting to see if he adds to it.


Russell

Thanks for that however can I just correct you on something, in the original survey 52% said they would walk away which is correct, however later on you quote me as saying 60 to 70 % of fans responding to the first survey would have carried out their threat, I believe that what I said was that 60 to 70 % of the original 52 % would have followed through on their threat to walk away from Scottish Football.

Can you just add that fans are very angry about the proposal to relegate Rangers to the 1st division and if the clubs believe that this will appease the fans then they are very much mistaken and fans will go ahead with their boycott, that is the message which is coming across loud & clear on message boards.

A lot of fans feel betrayed by their clubs saying that they have said no to a Newco in the SPL yet are working in the background to fudge a comprimise for a club who not only cheated to gain an unfair sporting advantage but in their opinion no longer exist as the former RFC have been liquidated.

When you look at what happened to Gretna & Livingston who had financial troubles and where relegated to the bottom tier for a lot less than RFC have then you can understand why they feel that there appears to be no sporting integrity involved in this latest attempt to change the rules to benefit one club.

It is fair to say that there is also resistance from supporters of SFL 1 clubs to the proposal and it is inevitable that Scottish football will suffer if this motion goes ahead.

[ScottB]

If true, the only way to stop this is if all fans of SPL join up in protest.

We've already made our feelings clear, this is the SPL Chairmen's response; passing the buck to the SFL with a gun pointed at their heads to do what they bottled under fan pressure; save Rangers at any cost.

[CallumLaidlaw]

What announcement:confused:

The proposals for league reconstruction

[Emerald]

What a desperate situation they are in. Like a boxer on the ropes and all their corner (SPL, SFA, BBC, STV, Daily Hun) are trying to get them back to life to fight another round. Do we give them the 10 count and let them off the ropes or do we do us and everyone else a favour and finish them off. Hook them I say :na na:

[Paisley Hibby]

Before we blast Petrie and Hibs too much here I'm wondering if he and the SFA ( Regan) within which he is a big player may actually have played a blinder. Lets face it Hibs, Herts and most of the rebel 10 have newco and to a much lesser extent Celtic by the short and curlies. They can scrap the 11-1 nonsense anytime they want and can drive through expanded leagues if they so desire. Newco and their old partners who have dined out on the stupidy small SPL for 20 years or so. The Express are reporting 2 options for league reconstruction ( not sure if in the SFL document above) which would certainly satisfy me and bring back real competition to our game. One is 3 off 14 team leagues, from the new season with newco in 2cd tier (tear!!). Not bad with probable 6/8 or 8/6 or 7/7 split. Bairns Pars, Dees all in. But much much better in my view is the Belgian Pro league model of 16 teams. This is a trifle complicated but once you get your head round it it appears brilliant. The normal season is 30 games. Then they split into a top 6 A group and play each other twice each again as a play off for the title, and Euro places. The best thing for me is that points do not carry forward and the 10 games decide it. Can you imagine the crowds, tv interest in these play offs? What about the rest of the league. It gets better, teams ranked 7 -14 split into 2 mini leagues, play each other twice. Group winners play home and away to be get a shot at a Europa league play off. Again great attracion for crowds and tv. The last section is the relegation play off between teams 15 and 16, they play each other 5 times, team that wins the most games is saved . Wow i say bring it on
Why not a treble 14 team set up this season - no litigation from anyone denied promotion and then go for the Belgian model 2013/14.

The question is has our Rod and his allies in the SFA , probably including Herts, Dons, United, Regan possibly pulled off the coup we all thought would never come. I could accept the newco into tier 2 along with other sanctions if one of these models is offered up and fairer distribution of monies. Stripping of titles, etc.

Lets wait and see and not blast RP just yet. This could be a key turning point. I hope so cause if we contiue with 11-1, spl 12 or spl 10 i will be giving up on it and getting the golf clubs out from the hut.

You are right about playing a blinder but not in the way you suggest. It looks like Rod has led us all up the garden path with his "you can put no price on sporting integrity" quote and we all fell for it. Seems it was just hot air and that the price you can buy Rod's "sporting integrity" for is the package that is now being promoted. The thing that REALLY pisses me off about the presentation that has gone out to the SFL clubs is the second last bullet point on advantages to Scottish football as a whole which is as follows " •Allows fans to engage in the bigger picture" They are really taking the piss with that one!!!!

[Baldy Foghorn]

I was invited to do a phone interview with Russell Leadbetter for an article they are running in this weeks Sunday Herald on the Newco/SPL saga.

I took part and Russell sent me the interview in rough form and I have just emailed him to correct a couple of points but have added to it :

I have attached my reply be interesting to see if he adds to it.


Russell

Thanks for that however can I just correct you on something, in the original survey 52% said they would walk away which is correct, however later on you quote me as saying 60 to 70 % of fans responding to the first survey would have carried out their threat, I believe that what I said was that 60 to 70 % of the original 52 % would have followed through on their threat to walk away from Scottish Football.

Can you just add that fans are very angry about the proposal to relegate Rangers to the 1st division and if the clubs believe that this will appease the fans then they are very much mistaken and fans will go ahead with their boycott, that is the message which is coming across loud & clear on message boards.

A lot of fans feel betrayed by their clubs saying that they have said no to a Newco in the SPL yet are working in the background to fudge a comprimise for a club who not only cheated to gain an unfair sporting advantage but in their opinion no longer exist as the former RFC have been liquidated.

When you look at what happened to Gretna & Livingston who had financial troubles and where relegated to the bottom tier for a lot less than RFC have then you can understand why they feel that there appears to be no sporting integrity involved in this latest attempt to change the rules to benefit one club.

It is fair to say that there is also resistance from supporters of SFL 1 clubs to the proposal and it is inevitable that Scottish football will suffer if this motion goes ahead.

Fair enough points....

I really wonder what Hibs stance will be on reconstruction. They voted no to Newco in SPL citing sporting integrity, however reconstruction will be perceived by all as a carve up to protect Derhun....Not much sporting integrity when Livingston and Gretna received much sterner punishments....

[virtualhibby]

How about we terminate the SPL and create a new 3rd (top tier) in SFL where clubs are offered equal shares and are all treated with fairness. Leave Doncaster to run a league where he only has Newco in it.

[Paisley Hibby]

You are right about playing a blinder but not in the way you suggest. It looks like Rod has led us all up the garden path with his "you can put no price on sporting integrity" quote and we all fell for it. Seems it was just hot air and that the price you can buy Rod's "sporting integrity" for is the package that is now being promoted. The thing that REALLY pisses me off about the presentation that has gone out to the SFL clubs is the second last bullet point on advantages to Scottish football as a whole which is as follows " •Allows fans to engage in the bigger picture" They are really taking the piss with that one!!!!

And I meant to add that with Der Hun out of the picture the other SPL clubs can change the voting structure whether The Sellik like it or not. No need for major restructuring to get that now.

[MB62]

If this does go through, it's sporting integrity AT A PRICE.

Was starting to get a wee bit interest back in the game after last month's disaster. I actually felt a bit of pride, not in Rod and Hibs but in the other clubs too that stood up to this horrible institution that is the cheating bigot fest. Now, I feel sold down the river and don't see the point in bothering anymore.

Why don't we just bend over and ask the OF to draw up all rules that they want us to play under and just get on with letting them shaft us? Let's give them a percentage of the gate money when the visit away grounds, say 50% of their travelling support, and ask what else they would like.

This better be more nonsense from the BBC or whoever or it's the end game for me instead of newhunco.
:rules: :sick: :offski:

[snooky]

Your bloody right they can, I'm actually lost for words

TBH, whether they do it or not is irrelevant.
The fact that they are considering it or worse still, threatening it, is enough for me.
It's not Rangers I want shot of - it's these bunch of spineless morons.
Endsville.

[ScottB]

How about we terminate the SPL and create a new 3rd (top tier) in SFL where clubs are offered equal shares and are all treated with fairness. Leave Doncaster to run a league where he only has Newco in it.

This is happening because the SPL clubs must have agreed to it, Doncaster doesn't have the power to pull this alone.

They must think we are stitched up the back frankly.

[Spike Mandela]

Well Spike, even I'm now thinking that this may come to pass.

If that is indeed the actual document, it is beyond contempt. Petrie, and the rest of the Hibs board, if you're looking in and you have any part in this traitorous compromise to assuage the wrongdoing of the Hun, you can, basically, f*** right off. Right now, I suspect the heaving boak that that "document" is will mean that I simply wont care, because you will have removed the entire reason for football existing as a professional sport.

Pessimistic Sod!!!!:wink::greengrin

Scandalous if it is allowed to come to pass TC.

[HH81]

Me too but these:

http://www.froyopad.com/ployer-momo9-star-lightsome-90-inch-tablet-pc-allwinner-a13-android-40-10ghz-ddr3512mb8gb-ips-capacitive_p668.html?zenid=uqj61unpm1s9qtd8g1npn8h fb2

are cheaper and a guy at my work bought two and said they are crackin kit. £18 postage from Hong Kong plus £9 VAT.

How much are they in £'s? look quite smart.

[Cameron1875]

If you think about it, its actually quite funny how they think they will just get away with it. Its time for fans to forget petty rivalries and come together an ensure we boycott the game. Imagine the message it would send out if the first game at tannadice is completely empty.

We need to find out exactly whats going on, i might get abuse for this but if it generally is Petrie behind this then I have no idea whats going to happen to the club as surely people won't buy the new kits and season tickets. Hopefully the SFL clubs stand strong and aren't fearful of this threat of SPL2 nonsense!

[bighairyfaeleith]

I have just sent my thoughts to Rod.

My next step is to bypass the SFA and go straight to UEFA and FIFA.

We need thousands of fans to be doing the same thing. This must not be allowed to happen.

I will be finished with the scottish game if this happens, I will never give another penny to sky either. But first I'm going to do my best to make sure the money men know they have had a fight and not got away with this one easily.

The spartans could benefit massively from this if it's all true.

[Eyrie]

I wonder whether this story and document has been deliberately leaked to provoke a reaction?

:hmmm:

It's certainly managed that. If it was to test the water then they've got a clear answer.

Seriously bleeped off when I read of Petrie's involvement, and the only way this proposal can be acceptable is if Sevco 5088 is banned from promotion for the next two years.

Couple of other thoughts though - surely the SFA can refuse to recognise a breakaway SPL2? And there is still hope that the SFL clubs can save the day. Not only by voting to put Sevco 5088 into Division 3, but by then refusing to join a SPL2 whilst simultaneously demanding that the proposed changes go ahead without the Sevco 5088 parts.

[HFC 0-7]

That document is a shocker.

"Scottish Government Remain Committed to our Community Strategy" - So they wont if Rangers are punished and have to apply to division 3?

"A Positive Media Outcome" - So we need to appease the media? If so we are doing things for the wrong people.

This is shocking, in some ways its even worse than the vote to get into the SPL. The SPL vote has failed so they now go somewhere else, bribe them with implications if they dont say yes, and also bribe them with a money offer. Immediate Cash Benefit for all 30 clubs ! ​What sort of statement is that.

[shezer]

It can't be true.Lies.That document has to be a load of bollocks.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you think about it, its actually quite funny how they think they will just get away with it. Its time for fans to forget petty rivalries and come together an ensure we boycott the game. Imagine the message it would send out if the first game at tannadice is completely empty.

We need to find out exactly whats going on, i might get abuse for this but if it generally is Petrie behind this then I have no idea whats going to happen to the club as surely people won't buy the new kits and season tickets. Hopefully the SFL clubs stand strong and aren't fearful of this threat of SPL2 nonsense!

Wont happen, some folk will watch corrupt football , but still moan about sporting integrity?

Will those same folk moan about those who have given up, and moan about the standard of footballer they are watching, or part time football too?

[ScottB]

If you think about it, its actually quite funny how they think they will just get away with it. Its time for fans to forget petty rivalries and come together an ensure we boycott the game. Imagine the message it would send out if the first game at tannadice is completely empty.

We need to find out exactly whats going on, i might get abuse for this but if it generally is Petrie behind this then I have no idea whats going to happen to the club as surely people won't buy the new kits and season tickets. Hopefully the SFL clubs stand strong and aren't fearful of this threat of SPL2 nonsense!

Once the season begins, it's too late. They won't change anything once it's underway.

The fans across the country have been clear; 'No to newco in the SPL' without question. The Chairmen have instead tried to find a way to have their cake and eat it, and hope that we will all just moan a bit and go back like the sheep with money they expect us to be.

I'd almost have more respect for them if they'd just came out and made their case for letting the newco in, this nonsense of on the one hand telling the fans what we want to hear with all the chat of integrity, while with the other pointing a gun at the SFL and forcing them to the dirty work for them is for me, possibly even worse.

They are showing they think we are all a bunch of mugs who will carry on pumping the money in regardless of what they do.

[HFC 0-7]

Ach ........ I'm getting fed up of the whole thing to be honest, as things stand at the moment I couldnt care less if The Rangers or whatever they want to call themselves are in the SPL or the Greasy Joe's pub league Glasgow next season.

If The Rangers are in div 1 and thousands of fans quit Scottish football as a result then the joke really will be on us in the end. Instead of their cheating destroying the game here ... which has now been outed and put a stop to ... we will do the job for them, because footballs idea of what constitutes a fitting punishment wasnt enough for us.

One day I can see myself driving past ER looking at the rusty padlocks holding the gates shut and the big for sale signs and saying to myself, the fans were right to stay away, that will teach those hun loving gits at Hibs.


Cheers

Thats not the case, its the fact that the SPL and SFA rules which are in place are being bypassed to allow Rangers to get off lighter than their rules state. This isnt a case of fans wanting them punished more than the rules state, its the fans wanting the authorities to carry out those rules. They are even bribing and blackmailing now which is shocking. Whats the point of supporting a game run by bodies that will not carry out punishments, change rules to help one club, completely restructure the game just for one club and ignore everyone else?

[tamig]

UEFA Rules.

If that's the case then, why was a vote set up? Surely if this UEFA rule exists there was no way they could play in the SPL? First I've heard of this one.

[bighairyfaeleith]

That document is a shocker.

"Scottish Government Remain Committed to our Community Strategy" - So they wont if Rangers are punished and have to apply to division 3?

"A Positive Media Outcome" - So we need to appease the media? If so we are doing things for the wrong people.

This is shocking, in some ways its even worse than the vote to get into the SPL. The SPL vote has failed so they now go somewhere else, bribe them with implications if they dont say yes, and also bribe them with a money offer. Immediate Cash Benefit for all 30 clubs ! ​What sort of statement is that.

Exactly!!

Sporting integrity does not just apply to the SPL and the idea that clubs in the lower leagues should be forced to accept this is abhorrent and completely unsporting. FIFA need to act if this happens. Time for the SFA to be disbanded and a whole new setup in scotland to be put in place.

[s.a.m]

Tony McKelvie‏@TonyMcKelvieAccording to SFL per http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/ (http://t.co/7yMbmZpx) the Game will meltdown if RFC is punished for its many scandals. If true, melt it. It's worthless!

:agree:

[lord bunberry]

Now they are (allegedly) threatening to blackmail the SFL teams:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/

If true, it is a disgrace - all to save the cheating Huns. And the SPL chairmen are a bunch of snakes if they have even contemplated this in the circumstances.

If anything, this whole Newco scenario has brought the non-Old Firm fans together.

I have to say I'm utterly disgusted after reading that. I've always maintained I will still go and support my club no mater what but I can see why people want to walk away

[Coco Bryce]

If all this is true its all over for me and my laddie. I'll take him to rugby or some other respectable sport.

[Coco Bryce]

I have to say I'm utterly disgusted after reading that. I've always maintained I will still go and support my club no mater what but I can see why people want to walk away

But not disgusted enough to do anything about it though?

[ScottB]

Tony McKelvie‏@TonyMcKelvieAccording to SFL per http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/ (http://t.co/7yMbmZpx) the Game will meltdown if RFC is punished for its many scandals. If true, melt it. It's worthless!

:agree:

Do it now as a choice or it'll happen anyway when the vast majority of the fans decide to do something better with their money.

[Spike Mandela]

Let's all take a breath...once we get some facts we can then decide on right, wrongs and actions..other forums are saying the same stuff but only because they are getting info from the same places..then looking at sites (like ours) that will back up what they have read...we don't know for a fact any of this is true, most of the stories are coming from sources who have been very wrong in the past

Are you suggesting STV are lying about the document in their possession? They have printed it verbatim, surely that would be a lie of PRAVDA proportions.

[WhileTheChief..]

On the Aberdeen website tonight -

Following the BBC report today in regards to plans for Rangers NewCo to enter Division One Chairman Stewart Milne stated:


"The statement that I issued on Monday was both clear and unambiguous and for the avoidance of any doubt I will restate it. Rangers NewCo should apply to the SFA for admission and apply direct to the SFL in the same way that any other new club would do. This is and remains our club's absolute position."

C'mon Rod, what you got to say????

[lord bunberry]

But not disgusted enough to do anything about it though?


im starting to have my doubts maybe i will go and watch edinburgh city next season

[tamsonsbairn]

im starting to have my doubts maybe i will go and watch edinburgh city next season

Aye, I can see Craigroyston getting one more supporter if this is true.

[1875 NO 1]

Latest developments and the slowness to kick the huns out of fitba.

Time for change.

Hibs fans to start a new Hibs playing out of Meadowbank.

Fans off other disgruntled clubs could start their own team. A national competition free from greed and the SFA.

Wimbledon and Man u fans shown it can be done.

It may sound a pipe dream but back in 1875 it wasn't easy to get our club formed. The same cheating that exsisted back then still exsists now.

Time for change.

Each share in the new club would be £10. Room for all pissed off Hibs Fans.

The fans are Hibs. Not Farmer and Petrie.

Time to be brave. It won't be easy but Scottish Fitba is about to die.

[Westie1875]

If this goes ahead I will be really angry with our club and the rest of them (assuming they support it) and will be asking for a refund on my season ticket.

How can they be so far removed from how the fans of nearly all of the clubs feel to think that this will wash?

Utterly disgusting IMO, there is absolutely no point in having a rule book if you are going to rip it up and start again just to save one club. Lets not forget they (the SPHell) have been telling us for months that restructuring is not plausible as they can't find a solution to suit everyone, now all of a sudden they can sort it all out before the start of the season??? If this goes through it will cost them more money than binning Sevco to division 3 would IMO with the number of fans deciding to give it up.

[easty]

After reading that STV thing I want to change my poll vote from option 2 to option 1.

Farce of a football association in this country. I'm embarrassed.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Are you suggesting STV are lying about the document in their possession? They have printed it verbatim, surely that would be a lie of PRAVDA proportions.

I don't doubt its veracity. I think it has been leaked to the media by people who are opposed to it, because they know it will cause a reaction. If you were in favour of this you would try to keep this as secret as possible. We don't need a lot of opposition to stop it. The SPL needs an 11-1 majority to pass the resolutions involved (playoffs, financial distribution). The SFL needs a 23-7 majority to pass their resolutions. Keep up the pressure and I think this plan (like previous ones) will fail.

[Waxy]

I'd like to know exactly the names of the people who made this statement up.
Livid.Gutted.Clearly the Huns still have people in power.

[adhibs]

this must have the support of the clubs or it wouldnt have been releasd today. well done to aberdeen for sticking to what the fans want

[Captain Trips]

We have seen the document suggesting that Rangers may well be placed in Division one as a Newco.

Now we are not as yet thinking it is a done deal or that the member clubs of the SPL have made a plan but if they have Mr Petrie and Hibs are a team involved then I think we might see far worse repercutions than the impact of no Rangers.

Time you stood up and started counting the views on here which clearly show the rules in place should be the ones that are used. what is frightning is some Hibbies on here who I know go week in week out are going to chuck it, I am going to chuck it, Hibs will lose far more by agreeing to any sort of change to division one.

My order for the new top is on hold, lots of STs are on hold this site doesnt claim to speak for the entire support but as any survey you ask a group anda fairly large group is sitting on here. The Hibs support are actually disgusted at the proposal.

You and I both know Hibs would never get the chance to just drop 1 league, we would be starting in 3rd you know it and we all on here know it.

Bottom line though it is conjecture and what the support will do is conjecture we will wait and see but if it turns out you are not in favour of such a proposal then you can stand by your integrity statement, if this is happening then I think you will have no integrity with me and probably many of the support.

This website has never seen so many people who argue about managers, tactics and players all pull together with almost the same views, there are some serious ST holders looking at calling it. This is not a case of having a go it is just to let you understand the depth of feeling over this, if your mantra is full punishment we will stand up and be counted with you and a 100% clear concience.

If nowt to do with you or Hibs then please get involved in making sure the integrity you spoke of is carried out to letter to best you can.

[Waxy]

this mustve have the support of the clubs or it wouldnt have been releasd today. well done to aberdeen for sticking to what the fans wantYep probably because Sevco people are offering riches to certain people.and yes,well done the sheep

[Jim44]

I have to say I'm utterly disgusted after reading that. I've always maintained I will still go and support my club no mater what but I can see why people want to walk away


Not all that disgusted then. Even tho' your club is being run by a sycophantic, money-grabbing, unprincipled doormat, like nearly all the other SPL chairmen. Ironically, Michael Johnston of Killie, who has been pilloried for speaking up for leniency for Rangers, in my mind comes out of this charade with the most credibility. At least he didn't hide behind the sham of pretending to stand up to Rangers. :no way:

[The Green Goblin]

You would think that if any of this was nonsense, the parties involved and named would be falling over themselves to make a statement or hold a press conference to say so.

[bighairyfaeleith]

The SFA claim this move will help keep scottish government funding, not if we write to our MP's in our thousands. Get your MP's name and pen a letter, they believe in votes and nothing else.

[Westie1875]

If all this is true its all over for me and my laddie. I'll take him to rugby or some other respectable sport.

Agree, I'll be putting my season ticket cash towards an annual trip to one of the tennis grand slams if this goes through.

[Brando7]

Sporting integrity is not for a season....it for life!!

[Waxy]

You would think that if any of this was nonsense, the parties involved and named would be falling over themselves to make a statement or hold a press conference to say so.it's not nonsense.It's a continuance of the same corruption

[Hibernia&Alba]

If all this is true its all over for me and my laddie. I'll take him to rugby or some other respectable sport.

One hundred per cent. It would be a very sad day to walk away, but I'd have no option.

[adhibs]

I'd like to know exactly the names of the people who made this statement up.
Livid.Gutted.Clearly the Huns still have people in power.

aye hardly a surprise either is it. things had been looking good, very good actualy but there was always that thought in the back of my mind that those with power in scottish football wouldnt let there beloved rangers slip away. its disguisting how corrupt it is

[HibbyAndy]

Rangers dont drop to the 3rd Division and im out, 100% finished with SPL Fitba.

[bighairyfaeleith]

One hundred per cent. It would be a very sad day to walk away, but I'd have no option.

No idea how I would fill my saturday afternoons, but this is one promise I won't go back on. If our club values us it won't do this!!

[Coco Bryce]

Rangers dont drop to the 3rd Division and im out, 100% finished with SPL Fitba.

Ditto. I don't want any part of this embarrasment.

[The Green Goblin]

If it's not true, I am sure someone will very quickly come out and say so tomorrow.

Hmm