Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[cad]

If players have signed contracts with Wavetower the SFA should already know because contracts have to be registered with them.

Ticketus seem to have made the the biggest brown trouser boob of all time.


If players like McGregor are on the payroll other clubs would be mad to agree to a 10p in the £ settlement -they should insist that all steps are taken to raise funds and if that means selling everybody-well get on with it.




Is that guy Ratner on the board of Ticketus , :wink:

[Billy Whizz]

If Rangers were liquidated would all their results against SPL teams be scrubbed

[Godsahibby]

If players have signed contracts with Wavetower the SFA should already know because contracts have to be registered with them.
Ticketus seem to have made the the biggest brown trouser boob of all time.


If players like McGregor are on the payroll other clubs would be mad to agree to a 10p in the £ settlement -they should insist that all steps are taken to raise funds and if that means selling everybody-well get on with it.

According to the guy on the phone in on Saturday the issue is tha players had two different contracts, one with Rangers which was registered with the SFA and another with the other company.

[Newry Hibs]

If players have signed contracts with Wavetower the SFA should already know because contracts have to be registered with them.



Maybe I'm being very naive, but surely if RFC went to the trouble of getting players to sign for another company, they would have checked that is allowed? (Yes I know they also had the cunning plan of paying players via an EBT). Presumably there would be a benefit to this sort of arrangement (assuming it was allowed). Why is this only coming to light now?

[EuanH78]

Maybe I'm being very naive, but surely if RFC went to the trouble of getting players to sign for another company, they would have checked that is allowed? (Yes I know they also had the cunning plan of paying players via an EBT). Presumably there would be a benefit to this sort of arrangement (assuming it was allowed). Why is this only coming to light now?

Presumably as you alluded to in your post. Rangers see laws as mere 'suggested guidelines'. Though this contract stuff is still just a rumour I think.

[greenginger]

Presumably as you alluded to in your post. Rangers see laws as mere 'suggested guidelines'. Though this contract stuff is still just a rumour I think.


Also did Whyte not P45 Bain, McIntyre and anyone else who might have known about the necessity of registering player contracts properly.

I know its just a rumour but Whyte comes across as someone thick enough to have done it. :agree:

[DH1875]

Is this not dragging on a bit. Should they not all have been given the bullet yet.

[Cropley10]

They need to cut costs to the maximum extent they can, especially if they are currently projecting a further shortfall of c.£4.5m over the remainder of this season. i.e. cutting costs is their priority and what that might do to their final league position or how upset it might make McCoist, or anything else, are all secondary considerations. Every day that they make no cuts is another day where they have lost more money which means less money available to their creditors. And another day of no doubt astronomical administrator fees.

£500/hr:greengrin

[Eyrie]

They have very few players out of contract at the end of this season, so the administrators need to weigh up potential transfer values when deciding who to cut.

But 35 players in a first team squad is excessive when only 18 can be involved in a game.

[Cropley10]

If Rangers were liquidated would all their results against SPL teams be scrubbed

Yes. Anyone who has taken points off them would lose them.


Maybe I'm being very naive, but surely if RFC went to the trouble of getting players to sign for another company, they would have checked that is allowed? (Yes I know they also had the cunning plan of paying players via an EBT). Presumably there would be a benefit to this sort of arrangement (assuming it was allowed). Why is this only coming to light now?

The EBT's for players ended a while ago. It's been suggested that the players who signed new contracts in the summer were not signed to the Club, but RFC Group - in effect a third-party, which is another big no-no.

[PaulSmith]

What's Irish Phil on about now, saying that Whyte had sold off the copyright to the club crest and name and registered another one for 'new' Rangers

[Onion]

You could argue with Rangers though that they still have a potential up side of keeping a team together in prize money and possibly European football depending on timings so may not be quite as simple as straight off cutting costs.

Taken to that logical conclusion, why don't they just borrow another £150m buy a load a real good players in the hope they might win the CL and earn £mmm ? Sounds to me, like the Admins are playing Football Manager with a real club and no money - if this all unravels and they don;t manage to get 2nd place, CL football and lose even mote money, the Admins will have a lot of explaining to do and might even be sued by the creditors for negligence of their primary duties. It all smells like a really bad smell.

[CropleyWasGod]

Taken to that logical conclusion, why don't they just borrow another £150m buy a load a real good players in the hope they might win the CL and earn £mmm ? Sounds to me, like the Admins are playing Football Manager with a real club and no money - if this all unravels and they don;t manage to get 2nd place, CL football and lose even mote money, the Admins will have a lot of explaining to do and might even be sued by the creditors for negligence of their primary duties. It all smells like a really bad smell.

IMO, they have gone about things the right way:-

1. establish what cash they have.

2. establish what happened to the cash they should have had.

3. establish the extent of the debts

4. maximise income, ie selling out for the Kilmarnock game.

5. THEN look at cost cutting, with a view to maximising income whilst minimising expenditure.

I struggle to see how they could attend to 5, without doing 1-3 first.

[Onion]

Why should football clubs come before the tax man, the police, the local council, the local plumber? They don't have the cash to pay them all.

I realise they can't do this.... but the SFA/SPL has a responsibility to ALL the clubs in the SPL and it appears that they think they've done their job by docking Rangers 10 points - when the reality is that their debts have had much bigger far reaching effects on the league and innocent competitors {Yams excepted).

10 points deducted for what they have done now looks like a minor slap on the wrist for murder. If they fail to pay their debts to other SPL clubs it should be immediate relegation to the lowest league, without appeal.

[CropleyWasGod]

I realise they can't do this.... but the SFA/SPL has a responsibility to ALL the clubs in the SPL and it appears that they think they've done their job by docking Rangers 10 points - when the reality is that their debts have had much bigger far reaching effects on the league and innocent competitors {Yams excepted).

10 points deducted for what they have done now looks like a minor slap on the wrist for murder. If they fail to pay their debts to other SPL clubs it should be immediate relegation to the lowest league, without appeal.

I would rather wait for the report from the Nimmo-Smith enquiry before I throw stones at the SFA.

[Cropley10]

Taken to that logical conclusion, why don't they just borrow another £150m buy a load a real good players in the hope they might win the CL and earn £mmm ? Sounds to me, like the Admins are playing Football Manager with a real club and no money - if this all unravels and they don;t manage to get 2nd place, CL football and lose even mote money, the Admins will have a lot of explaining to do and might even be sued by the creditors for negligence of their primary duties. It all smells like a really bad smell.

Without auditted accounts by 31.3 then there's no Euro football for the Hun.

I believe that the SFA also need auddited accounts.

CWG might like to tell us if it would be possible to produce auditted accounts in the time remaining.

My reading of it is D&P are trying to maintain Rangers as a going concern (but the BTC verdict hasn't arrived yet and if it's bad - and HMRC they will appeal if they lose - then it's not looking likely that they can be saved).

[Cropley10]

I would rather wait for the report from the Nimmo-Smith enquiry before I throw stones at the SFA.

Nimmo the Dimmo's brief is to narrow - don't hold your breath for any criticism whatsoever...

[TornadoHibby]

I would rather wait for the report from the Nimmo-Smith enquiry before I throw stones at the SFA.

I don't think he's known for being "controversial" or "taking on the establishment" when it's easier to say very little of substance which guys in his position can often do and get away with! :wink: :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

Without auditted accounts by 31.3 then there's no Euro football for the Hun.

I believe that the SFA also need auddited accounts.

CWG might like to tell us if it would be possible to produce auditted accounts in the time remaining.

My reading of it is D&P are trying to maintain Rangers as a going concern (but the BTC verdict hasn't arrived yet and if it's bad - and HMRC they will appeal if they lose - then it's not looking likely that they can be saved).

I don't doubt that the accounts have been prepared. They just haven't been signed off yet, either by the directors, the auditors, or both.

It is likely that there has been some disagreement over the content of the accounts or the auditors' report. The substance of that disagreement could only be guesswork at the moment. However, it may be that some of the information established by the admins might help those issues to be resolved.

I do think that the admins will be working with the auditors, with a view to having the accounts signed off by 31 March. Doing that, and ensuring European football, will make RFC more attractive to a buyer. Maximising the sale price would maximise the return to the creditors.

[TornadoHibby]

£500/hr:greengrin

Why the grinning smilie?! :confused:

It'll be at least that! :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Why the grinning smilie?! :confused:

It'll be at least that! :agree:

Agreed. Team of 12, say, at an average rate of £50 will eat that up.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I'm appalled by scotland tonight, thats just pure rangers propaganda. Absolute pish, trying to to paint dunfermlines problems as a reason not to punish rangers too much. ****ing shameful

The blonde newsreader on the story afterwards however was dirty as sin:wink:

[truehibernian]

I'm appalled by scotland tonight, thats just pure rangers propaganda. Absolute pish, trying to to paint dunfermlines problems as a reason not to punish rangers too much. ****ing shameful

The blonde newsreader on the story afterwards however was dirty as sin:wink:

Cat Cubie the BBC Scotland weather girl is better mate.......the blonde that does the STV sport at teatime is decent although those front teeth of hers wouldn't look out of place on Watership Down.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Cat Cubie the BBC Scotland weather girl is better mate.......the blonde that does the STV sport at teatime is decent although those front teeth of hers wouldn't look out of place on Watership Down.

she looks interesting yes:agree:

[green glory]

A bit off topic, all this talk of tv totty. I like a bit of Shearer and Ralston myself.

Death to the currants!

[truehibernian]

A bit off topic, all this talk of tv totty. I like a bit of Shearer and Ralston myself.

Death to the currants!

Ralston stands like the hanger is still in her dress. I'll give you Shearer....her dress was particularly figure hugging tonight. Very pretty in real life too.....sadly a Rangers fan. She looks like she has shoplifted two xmas puddings most mornings with the outfits she wears.

[jgl07]

Taken to that logical conclusion, why don't they just borrow another £150m buy a load a real good players in the hope they might win the CL and earn £mmm ?


Because no bugger will lend to them!

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4163627/Six-players-facing-Rangers-chop.html

The administrators could choose to axe players like Sasa Papac, David Healy, Sone Aluko and Salim Kerkar who are all out of contract in the summer.

It's also likely some ageing high earners could face the axe as the bean counters are forced to make crippling cuts.
That would leave the likes of Neil Alexander, Lee McCulloch and Kirk Broadfoot in the firing line.

[St.Kristopher]

Cat Cubie the BBC Scotland weather girl is better mate.......the blonde that does the STV sport at teatime is decent although those front teeth of hers wouldn't look out of place on Watership Down.

Cat was a Watsons girl, always been a looker.

[Www1875hfc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html

[Hibs Class]

Nimmo the Dimmo's brief is to narrow - don't hold your breath for any criticism whatsoever...

Have the details of his scope been published? I don't recall seeing it.

[Ozyhibby]

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/03/02/time-for-leadership-at-sfa-spl/

Worth a read.

[Kato]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html

Wow. They should all be put on trial and jailed if found guilty. If anyone "normal" were employing people in this manner we'd be hammered.

[bingo70]

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/03/02/time-for-leadership-at-sfa-spl/

Worth a read.

The reaction from Regan there is embarrasing but between that and Doncasters silence it sums up the powers that be in scottish football.

My guess is no lessons will be learned from this and we'll continue to allow clubs to overspend then the next time it happens there'll be the usual shock and talk of learning lessons before we stumble on to the next crisis.

[Newry Hibs]

I wonder how many players that played in their last match (or two) will be made redundant? Hearing some of the options, I don't think too many. One option was some redundancies and a deferred 50% pay cut at the end of the season. Does that mean the players left get full whack now and then have to 'struggle' on with ony half pay while they look for another club in the close season - or indeed wait until RFC are all better and carry on next year.

[Twa Cairpets]

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/03/02/time-for-leadership-at-sfa-spl/

Worth a read.

Is it just me, or did that appear somewhat whingey? I know this blog has done some good work on exposing der hun, but to castigate Regan for not providing answers to a detailed and complex question on the basis of hypotheticals via twitter is ridiculous. With police investigations and administration and enquiries ongoing, it would be entirely and utterly inappropriate for publc speculation by the SFA/SPL, if for no other reason than it could prejudice findings.

I think Regan is doing quite well so far, myself. The "Scotland United" vision is clear and encouraging

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it just me, or did that appear somewhat whingey? I know this blog has done some good work on exposing der hun, but to castigate Regan for not providing answers to a detailed and complex question on the basis of hypotheticals via twitter is ridiculous. With police investigations and administration and enquiries ongoing, it would be entirely and utterly inappropriate for publc speculation by the SFA/SPL, if for no other reason than it could prejudice findings.

I think Regan is doing quite well so far, myself. The "Scotland United" vision is clear and encouraging

That's my take on it, TC. The process (administration, police investigation, SFA enquiry) is ongoing. We can speculate to death on here (guilty!), but the time to throw stones is when the dust has settled.

[Ozyhibby]

That's my take on it, TC. The process (administration, police investigation, SFA enquiry) is ongoing. We can speculate to death on here (guilty!), but the time to throw stones is when the dust has settled.

While I agree with you in principle, we are not dealing with a normal organisation. The SFA have a proven bias toward rangers therefor the throwing of a few early stones sends the message that we expect justice and fairness in the game.

[alfie]

It does sound a bit like Regan is avoiding the question from reading that. If the SFA has been ignoring the fact that there have been 'side contracts' at RFC then they should appoint an independent inquiry led by someone like Henry Mcleish.

Actually with their reputation for avoiding confrontation, it might be a good time to shut down the SFA, SFL and SPL and replace them with a new single body. Then all the blame for not following their own rules can be blamed on the previous bodies, ignoring the fact that it will probably be the same old blazers in the new body. Or am I being overly cynical?

[Twa Cairpets]

While I agree with you in principle, we are not dealing with a normal organisation. The SFA have a proven bias toward rangers therefor the throwing of a few early stones sends the message that we expect justice and fairness in the game.

I think there is some justification in suggesting there were historical Hun leanings, but the whole purpose of someone like Regan coming in and the restructure of Scottish Football under way means that any institutional bias is removed. I think there is a difference between fan perception and reality anyway, but I dont think the accusation of proven bias towards Rangers is sustainable over the last couple of years in particular.

Even if you accept completely that the halls of Hampden are populated exclusively by Apron wearing, bowler hat toting sash wearers. However, the nature of this case, and sheer size of the potential fallout and its impact on the game - good, bad or neutral - will (if the organisation is to retain any credibility) transcend any such bias.

Its both fun and largely pointless to speculate on whats going on and what could happen from a fans point of view. If you're the SFA/SPL, you MUST play the political line of neutrality until there is something concrete to comment or act upon, otherwise you leave yourself open to both barrels.

[CropleyWasGod]

It does sound a bit like Regan is avoiding the question from reading that. If the SFA has been ignoring the fact that there have been 'side contracts' at RFC then they should appoint an independent inquiry led by someone like Henry Mcleish.

Actually with their reputation for avoiding confrontation, it might be a good time to shut down the SFA, SFL and SPL and replace them with a new single body. Then all the blame for not following their own rules can be blamed on the previous bodies, ignoring the fact that it will probably be the same old blazers in the new body. Or am I being overly cynical?

What are the Terms of Reference of the Nimmo-Smith enquiry? From memory, I thought it was about "breaches of the SFA Articles". I am not sure if this situation (the parallel contracts) is covered by that.

[Billy Whizz]

It does sound a bit like Regan is avoiding the question from reading that. If the SFA has been ignoring the fact that there have been 'side contracts' at RFC then they should appoint an independent inquiry led by someone like Henry Mcleish.

Actually with their reputation for avoiding confrontation, it might be a good time to shut down the SFA, SFL and SPL and replace them with a new single body. Then all the blame for not following their own rules can be blamed on the previous bodies, ignoring the fact that it will probably be the same old blazers in the new body. Or am I being overly cynical?

I'm not sure to be fair to Regan, that Twitter is the right place to be answering these sort of questions

[Twa Cairpets]

It does sound a bit like Regan is avoiding the question from reading that. If the SFA has been ignoring the fact that there have been 'side contracts' at RFC then they should appoint an independent inquiry led by someone like Henry Mcleish.

Actually with their reputation for avoiding confrontation, it might be a good time to shut down the SFA, SFL and SPL and replace them with a new single body. Then all the blame for not following their own rules can be blamed on the previous bodies, ignoring the fact that it will probably be the same old blazers in the new body. Or am I being overly cynical?

And so he should - a blogger on a public forum asks a question on twitter and then takes the hufty that he doesnt get an answer. Twitter is hardly the place for in depth investigative journalism, especially from a tweeter with a clear agenda. For Regan to have replied would have been genuinely appaling.

And you are veing overly cynical.:greengrin One thing Regan has done is wipe away a lot of the "blazers" and committees to make things structurally more sensible. I also dont think that a single body would be in the best interests of the the total game, but that's a different argument and would constitute a thread hijack.

[Ozyhibby]

I think there is some justification in suggesting there were historical Hun leanings, but the whole purpose of someone like Regan coming in and the restructure of Scottish Football under way means that any institutional bias is removed. I think there is a difference between fan perception and reality anyway, but I dont think the accusation of proven bias towards Rangers is sustainable over the last couple of years in particular.

Even if you accept completely that the halls of Hampden are populated exclusively by Apron wearing, bowler hat toting sash wearers. However, the nature of this case, and sheer size of the potential fallout and its impact on the game - good, bad or neutral - will (if the organisation is to retain any credibility) transcend any such bias.

Its both fun and largely pointless to speculate on whats going on and what could happen from a fans point of view. If you're the SFA/SPL, you MUST play the political line of neutrality until there is something concrete to comment or act upon, otherwise you leave yourself open to both barrels.

If there has been no bias over the last couple of years then how do you explain the fact that Campbell Ogilvie was appointed vice president of the sfa after being a rangers director at the time these second contracts were being dished out. Surely he would have blown the whistle on this to his new employers by now? To say there is no longer a bias is naive in my opinion.

[matty_f]

If there has been no bias over the last couple of years then how do you explain the fact that Campbell Ogilvie was appointed vice president of the sfa after being a rangers director at the time these second contracts were being dished out. Surely he would have blown the whistle on this to his new employers by now? To say there is no longer a bias is naive in my opinion.


Wouldn't Ogilvie reporting that be like a turkey voting for Christmas?

[CropleyWasGod]

If there has been no bias over the last couple of years then how do you explain the fact that Campbell Ogilvie was appointed vice president of the sfa after being a rangers director at the time these second contracts were being dished out. Surely he would have blown the whistle on this to his new employers by now? To say there is no longer a bias is naive in my opinion.

For one thing, we don't know that the second contracts exist. Yet.

Secondly, the fact that one member of the SFA (I am not sure that he is "employed" by them...) is a a lying, duplicitous, tax-dodging piece of Whyte doesn't make the whole organisaton so.

[Keith_M]

This guy has just admitted publicly that he and his company (Rangers) have knowingly cheated the tax man and bent/broken various rules for at least twenty years. This is an open admission that should be investigated both by the Police and the SFA/SPL. If Rangers get off after this with a mere 10 point penalty, it'll be a total travesty.

Oh and it also blows out of the water the David Murray line that it's all CWs fault and his "who me guv?" pleas of innocence.


Can we retrospectively have the 1993 League Cup awarded please :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

This guy has just admitted publicly that he and his company (Rangers) have knowingly cheated the tax man and bent/broken various rules for at least twenty years. This is an open admission that should be investigated both by the Police and the SFA/SPL. If Rangers get off after this with a mere 10 point penalty, it'll be a total travesty.

Oh and it also blows out of the water the David Murray line that it's all CWs fault and his "who me guv?" pleas of innocence.


Can we retrospectively have the 1993 League Cup awarded please :greengrin

When was this?

Oh, and sod the 1993 League Cup.... I want the 1979 Cup ... with Arthur credited with the winning goal! :greengrin

[Keith_M]

When was this?


Sorry, my previous post was supposed to have quoted this...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html

[Twa Cairpets]

If there has been no bias over the last couple of years then how do you explain the fact that Campbell Ogilvie was appointed vice president of the sfa after being a rangers director at the time these second contracts were being dished out. Surely he would have blown the whistle on this to his new employers by now? To say there is no longer a bias is naive in my opinion.

Employing an ex Rangers (and Hearts) Company Secretary does not mean there is bias. That's ridiculous.

It may be the case that Ogilivie is in someway complicit in the 2nd contracts (if they are indeed shown to be real): If this is the case his position is almost certainly untenable, but while the case is going on, you cannot, with any justification, expect the SFA to bullet him as that leaves them open to a charge of unfair dismissal.

[TheEastTerrace]

Whilst I can understand Stewart Regan hasn't replied on Twitter to the Rangerstaxcase - I agree with the last tweet; the SPL and SFA better be preparing themselves to answer some fairly blunt and tricky questioning re: Rangers, registrations, finances, 'fit and proper' owners, etc. UEFA are apparently watching with interest re: player registrations.

The SFA and SPL aren't at fault for Rangers' demise, but the time has come to take Scottish football forward on a more sustainable and equitable footing, including the introduction of a club licensing system and requirements for supporter representation to improve transparency and accountability of those who own the clubs.

There will never be a better time to change Scottish football for the better.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry, my previous post was supposed to have quoted this...

Thanks for that.

Wow, it just goes on and on.

I am wondering how many of these directors understand the notion of collective responsibility. :cb

[Twa Cairpets]

Whilst I can understand Stewart Regan hasn't replied on Twitter to the Rangerstaxcase - I agree with the last tweet; the SPL and SFA better be preparing themselves to answer some fairly blunt and tricky questioning re: Rangers, registrations, finances, 'fit and proper' owners, etc. UEFA are apparently watching with interest re: player registrations.

The SFA and SPL aren't at fault for Rangers' demise, but the time has come to take Scottish football forward on a more sustainable and equitable footing, including the introduction of a club licensing system and requirements for supporter representation to improve transparency and accountability of those who own the clubs.

There will never be a better time to change Scottish football for the better.

I'd be astonished of the the SFA and SPL are not taking very detailed advice and considering several "what ifs", and that they are doing this with input from UEFA also. Rangers are essentially a big local story, but the ramifications could be as wide ranging as the Bosman ruling.

Totally agree that the opportunity to change and improve for the benefit of the whole senior game is real. I'll judge the SFA/SPL at the end of the process when we see the future shape of the game after the rangers situation resolves itself.

[matty_f]

If they're shown to have cheated as the Daily Mail is reporting, then surely the SPL must have no option than to expel them from the league. What we're seeing here is a team blatantly flouting the rules on a huge scale to get success at the expense of other SPL clubs. It has gone way, way beyond a slap on the wrist.

The SPL cannot condone this, no matter how big the club and how important to Scottish football some might think they are. Would they be so important if they'd not cheated their way to success in the way that they have?

Punt them from the league and let their club die.

[ancient hibee]

I don't doubt that the accounts have been prepared. They just haven't been signed off yet, either by the directors, the auditors, or both.

It is likely that there has been some disagreement over the content of the accounts or the auditors' report. The substance of that disagreement could only be guesswork at the moment. However, it may be that some of the information established by the admins might help those issues to be rddesolved.

I do think that the admins will be working with the auditors, with a view to having the accounts signed off by 31 March. Doing that, and ensuring European football, will make RFC more attractive to a buyer. Maximising the sale price would maximise the return to the creditors.



Don't think signing off the accounts will be enough-I suspect they have to be approved by the shareholders in an AGM and I think 3rd March is the final day to give notice of calling an AGM before 31st March.

Given that to the rest of the football world Scottish football IS the Old FIrm the ramifications of this situation for the football authorities are huge.

[Andy74]

Anyway, back to Cat Cubie. Good looking girl but is she aware her stomach isn't really flat enough for some of the gear she wears?

As for the Shearer girl, I can't decide if she is good or not? I'm thinking probbaly yes but something is not quite right. Is her head too big for the rest of her?

[ancient hibee]

Anyway, back to Cat Cubie. Good looking girl but is she aware her stomach isn't really flat enough for some of the gear she wears?

As for the Shearer girl, I can't decide if she is good or not? I'm thinking probbaly yes but something is not quite right. Is her head too big for the rest of her?


I think she keeps some of her equipment(ooh matron)broadcasting equipment in the area mentioned.

Not a patch on Sally Magnusson anyway.

[stokesmessiah]

Anyway, back to Cat Cubie. Good looking girl but is she aware her stomach isn't really flat enough for some of the gear she wears?

As for the Shearer girl, I can't decide if she is good or not? I'm thinking probbaly yes but something is not quite right. Is her head too big for the rest of her?

It's her eyes, something not right about them.

[basehibby]

Sorry, my previous post was supposed to have quoted this...

WOW - cat well and trully out of bag it would seem!

Found this bit pretty interesting - "Adam's revelation suggests a clear breach of the SFA rulebook - and is a potential embarrassment to current SFA president Campbell Ogilvie, who had a 27-year association with Rangers, many of them spent as secretary.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html#ixzz1nxOmkpO8"

Ogilve MUST go IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't think signing off the accounts will be enough-I suspect they have to be approved by the shareholders in an AGM and I think 3rd March is the final day to give notice of calling an AGM before 31st March.

Given that to the rest of the football world Scottish football IS the Old FIrm the ramifications of this situation for the football authorities are huge.

Hasn't the AGM already happened? If it has, then the accounts issue would have been deferred.

I'm not an expert in the whole area of notice periods.... most of my clients don't have AGM's....but I am sure there are provisions for shorter notice periods.

Also, the SFA may well accept accounts that have been approved by the Board, and signed off by the auditors, without being adopted by the shareholders. Unlikely, sure, but it does happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

WOW - cat well and trully out of bag it would seem!

Found this bit pretty interesting - "Adam's revelation suggests a clear breach of the SFA rulebook - and is a potential embarrassment to current SFA president Campbell Ogilvie, who had a 27-year association with Rangers, many of them spent as secretary.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html#ixzz1nxOmkpO8"

Ogilve MUST go IMO.


Don't agree. If he is guilty, let him squirm as each detail seeps out into the press. Wait until there is irresistible pressure to investigate it properly.

And then hang the ******* :greengrin

[Kato]

And then hang the ******* :greengrin


Not before investigating what he got up at the Gorgski Kirkus.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not before investigating what he got up at the Gorgski Kirkus.

Oh, that goes without saying.:greengrin

I have said it before, but this thread is just the appetiser for the main event.....

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Anyway, back to Cat Cubie. Good looking girl but is she aware her stomach isn't really flat enough for some of the gear she wears?

As for the Shearer girl, I can't decide if she is good or not? I'm thinking probbaly yes but something is not quite right. Is her head too big for the rest of her?

On a similar topic, I'm watching SSN just now, were widescreen tvs invented so that they could fit Hayley McQueens chest on to the screen?

[TheEastTerrace]

SFA inquiry findings to go to Special Board meeting next week

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2111&newsCategoryID=36&newsID=9417

[CropleyWasGod]

SFA inquiry findings to go to Special Board meeting next week

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2111&newsCategoryID=36&newsID=9417

This bit is particularly enlightening:-

"We are, however, aware of the most recent allegations made against Rangers FC today by a former director of the club. We shall investigate this matter thoroughly before making any further comment."

[CropleyWasGod]

And, just when you thought the Whyte laddie was getting an easy day of it today....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/whytes-lawyers-in-bankruptcy-fear.16903554

[alfie]

And so he should - a blogger on a public forum asks a question on twitter and then takes the hufty that he doesnt get an answer. Twitter is hardly the place for in depth investigative journalism, especially from a tweeter with a clear agenda. For Regan to have replied would have been genuinely appaling.

And you are being overly cynical.:greengrin One thing Regan has done is wipe away a lot of the "blazers" and committees to make things structurally more sensible. I also dont think that a single body would be in the best interests of the the total game, but that's a different argument and would constitute a thread hijack.

:agree:
Twitter is definitely not the place to discuss the ongoing investigations. However he could have said as much himself.

The replacement of the various authorities has been discussed at length many times and I dont see the need to hijack this thread and start it all over again, but on a similar vein - has anyone heard anything about UEFA being involved, or closely watching the SFA/SPL response to the RFC situation officially, or is it just wild speculation on our part? :dunno:

[alfie]

And, just when you thought the Whyte laddie was getting an easy day of it today....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/whytes-lawyers-in-bankruptcy-fear.16903554
Probably the first time I have seen a quote from Danny Alexander that made sense!

[Hibernia&Alba]

What's the latest news? Will there be players released today?

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

When was this?

Oh, and sod the 1993 League Cup.... I want the 1979 Cup ... with Arthur credited with the winning goal! :greengrin

If Rangers' record is scrubbed from the 1994-95 Premier Division, don't we win it ? Motherwell finished in second just above us in third but I think they took more points off Rangers than we did.

[TheEastTerrace]

:agree:
Twitter is definitely not the place to discuss the ongoing investigations. However he could have said as much himself.

The replacement of the various authorities has been discussed at length many times and I dont see the need to hijack this thread and start it all over again, but on a similar vein - has anyone heard anything about UEFA being involved, or closely watching the SFA/SPL response to the RFC situation officially, or is it just wild speculation on our part? :dunno:

Phil Mac insinuated has tweeted that he had brought the player contract/registration situation to UEFA's attention and weren't exactly enamoured - most recent one today

Phil MacGiollaBhain‏@Pmacgiollabhain

It would be foolish for anyone at Hampden to think for one second that UEFA is not fully aware of the 2nd Contract situation at RFC. #clipe

[Hibs Class]

SFA inquiry findings to go to Special Board meeting next week

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2111&newsCategoryID=36&newsID=9417


I still don't recall seeing the scope of the inquiry but if they are in the final stages of it already it makes you wonder how in-depth it can have been.

[nonshinyfinish]

If Rangers' record is scrubbed from the 1994-95 Premier Division, don't we win it ? Motherwell finished in second just above us in third but I think they took more points off Rangers than we did.

Quick look at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Scottish_Premier_Division) says yes - If you take out results against Rangers, Motherwell drop from 54 points to 48 (2 wins, 2 defeats v. Rangers), we drop from 53 to 49 (1 win, 1 draw, 2 defeats) and Celtc drop from 51 to 44 (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat).

Hibs 49
Motherwell 48
Celtc 44

:grr:

[alfie]

I still don't recall seeing the scope of the inquiry but if they are in the final stages of it already it makes you wonder how in-depth it can have been.

Unless the inquiry was purely into the RFC players contracts lodged with the SFA? Cant really be to do with the tax case or administration as they are ongoing, plus the fact they are aware of the story in the Daily Mail makes me think they have been looking at least in that direction. Possibly as a prelude to them being in breach of the articles of association and booting RFC out? :pray:

[TheEastTerrace]

I still don't recall seeing the scope of the inquiry but if they are in the final stages of it already it makes you wonder how in-depth it can have been.

SFA should have published the terms of reference for sure.

[Twa Cairpets]

I still don't recall seeing the scope of the inquiry but if they are in the final stages of it already it makes you wonder how in-depth it can have been.

Pure speculation on my part, but you'd think the investigation is over areas that the SFA have jurisdiction over, as opposed to the huns day-to-day corporate governance, which is a legal/administrative manner. The things they'd be investigating would probably be quite focussed, relatively narrow and probably different compared to what Stratchclydes Finest are considering. If this is the case, the inquiry into the correctness of player registration, the "fit and proper person to be a director" thing etc could presumably be undertaken and decided upon quickly.

[IWasThere2016]

Quick look at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Scottish_Premier_Division) says yes - If you take out results against Rangers, Motherwell drop from 54 points to 48 (2 wins, 2 defeats v. Rangers), we drop from 53 to 49 (1 win, 1 draw, 2 defeats) and Celtc drop from 51 to 44 (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat).

Hibs 49
Motherwell 48
Celtc 44

:grr:

I want the SC fae whenever it was 78-79 or 79-80 :cb

[magpie1892]

And, just when you thought the Whyte laddie was getting an easy day of it today....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/whytes-lawyers-in-bankruptcy-fear.16903554

So who has first call, then, on the £3.6m 'seized' in CB's account today by the hun administrators if the lawyers go to the wall?

This just gets better and better.

[CropleyWasGod]

So who has first call, then, on the £3.6m 'seized' in CB's account today by the hun administrators if the lawyers go to the wall?

This just gets better and better.

Square go in the Albion car park. Sell tickets. Increase the funds for creditors. Sorted.

Now the serious answer:- if it's in CB's Clients Account, it belongs to the client. No argument.

[Cropley10]

What's the latest news? Will there be players released today?

No, this is the first ever administration of a football Club where players haven't been released. Naismith is injured, but is still being paid as is Lafferty. Admin have let Russell and Smith go but the rest remain. Meanwhile the Pars can't meet their wage bill. It's a farce.

[Twa Cairpets]

No, this is the first ever administration of a football Club where players haven't been released. Naismith is injured, but is still being paid as is Lafferty. Admin have let Russell and Smith go but the rest remain. Meanwhile the Pars can't meet their wage bill. It's a farce.

Eh? The announcements are due this afternoon, BBC speculating 11 players and 50% wage cut.

[Cropley10]

Quick look at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Scottish_Premier_Division) says yes - If you take out results against Rangers, Motherwell drop from 54 points to 48 (2 wins, 2 defeats v. Rangers), we drop from 53 to 49 (1 win, 1 draw, 2 defeats) and Celtc drop from 51 to 44 (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat).

Hibs 49
Motherwell 48
Celtc 44

:grr:

In a liquidation event all points won are removed. In a situation where second contracts the result changes to a nil-3 loss to the offender.

Not sure what difference this makes, but if Rangers cheated Well wouldn't lose the points they won, we'd just gain them too.

[Moulin Yarns]

STV reports that Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps have secured a court order to seize £3.6m from Craig Whyte’s solicitors. Collyer Bristow received money for season ticket sales sold to Ticketus before the takeover last May. It is understood that this will not affect any decisions on reduncancies

[J-C]

If 11 1st team squad are released, who would take at ER??

[CropleyWasGod]

STV reports that Rangers administrators Duff and Phelps have secured a court order to seize £3.6m from Craig Whyte’s solicitors. Collyer Bristow received money for season ticket sales sold to Ticketus before the takeover last May. It is understood that this will not affect any decisions on reduncancies

So.....in my book, that just about squares CW's account with Rangers. He is neither a debtor nor a creditor.

And it seems an IP agrees with me, too:-

An insolvency practitioner, experienced in dealing with handling football clubs in administration said: "To me it is quite simple. Mr Whyte has taken £24m out the club. Whether he is guaranteeing that money or not it doesn't matter. To me this means he has no right to that security over the assets." (from the Herald, 27/2/12)

[CropleyWasGod]

If 11 1st team squad are released, who would take at ER??

Naeb'dy. We wouldn't be allowed to play them, apparently.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Radio Clyde are saying no redundancies will be announced today and tomorrow's game goes ahead as normal. They're getting away with murder but it's merely a stay of execution. Justice is coming.

[andrew70]

Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

[Cropley10]

Eh? The announcements are due this afternoon, BBC speculating 11 players and 50% wage cut.

Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

That would be contrary to the terms of their appointment by the Court.

In any event, if the players don't accept the revised wage terms on offer, they will be sacked.

[CropleyWasGod]

Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

...as do the Revenue, Glasgow Council, the local plumber etc etc...

[Hibernia&Alba]

Anyone think that this delay of redundancies is because the Administrators are preparing the club for liquidation using the players as scapegoats ie refusal to accept pay cuts etc.

It's a strange scenario. Why are administrators looking for staff agreement on redundancies and pay cuts? They usually just say this, this and this are happening, like it or lump it.

[andrew70]

That would be contrary to the terms of their appointment by the Court.

In any event, if the players don't accept the revised wage terms on offer, they will be sacked.

Thanks CWG makes a bit more sense to me now. I guess we will need to wait and see the outcome

[CropleyWasGod]

It's a strange scenario. Why are administrators looking for staff agreement on redundancies and pay cuts? They usually just say this, this and this are happening, like it or lump it.

My take on it is that they have one eye on a potential sale, which IMO they should. The more top players they retain, the better the product to sell on, and the more is brought in for creditors.

It's a balancing act, though. They only have so much cash to spend. The longer they go on without any redundancies, the less they have to get them to the end of the season.

[Hibernia&Alba]

My take on it is that they have one eye on a potential sale, which IMO they should. The more top players they retain, the better the product to sell on, and the more is brought in for creditors.

It's a balancing act, though. They only have so much cash to spend. The longer they go on without any redundancies, the less they have to get them to the end of the season.

You seem to be well up on all this financial stuff, CWG. Not my realm of expertise at all. Do you think they'll be liquidated or will they come out of administration?

[PaulSmith]

If the players are paid in advance and they have the wages from when admin was appointed then I can see why they haven't been emptied yet as there wouldn't be any cost saving in releasing players whom have already been paid!?

[CropleyWasGod]

You seem to be well up on all this financial stuff, CWG. Not my realm of expertise at all. Do you think they'll be liquidated or will they come out of administration?

I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!! :greengrin

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes of the creditors to an arrangement for x pence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

[Cropley10]

I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!! :greengrin

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes oif the creditors to a n arregment for xpence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

And who owns Ibrox?

[EuanH78]

I'm one page ahead of you in the manual!! :greengrin

So many people have asked me that recently. The short answer is fuctifano.....

There are so many variables in this that it's difficult to predict with any certainty. And, of course, as journalists dig more stories come out of the woodwork. For example, the latest story about the "unregistered contracts" might be enough to sink them, irrespective of any financial problems.

Crucial, though, are the following factors:-

1. the Big Tax Case. If that goes against them, they're done.

2. even if the BTC goes with them, would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £15m tax bill, and

3. would anybody actually want to buy a club that has a £24m shortfall in its income over the next 4 years already?

4. irrespective of the BTC, what are the attitudes oif the creditors to a n arregment for xpence in the £?

I come back to an earlier thought. If someone really wants to get involved with Rangers, they should buy Ibrox... which would help RFC to clear off the debts, allow them to stay at Ibrox, and provide a steady income for the investor.

Someone like Ticketus maybe?

As you say though the football club have got to dodge two massive bullets, the big tax case and the player contracts invertigations and who is to say there wont be more.

My Dad and me were gassing about the whole thing and his opinion was (early on in this whole thing) 'it feels like the way watergate was' I'm too young to know exactly what that means but I think it's in the way little bits of info keep piling up, revealed day after day.

[JeMeSouviens]

And who owns Ibrox?

RFC (in admin). Who holds a security over it? Craig Whyte, Ticketus, Rosemary the telephone operator ..... ?

[J-C]

Naeb'dy. We wouldn't be allowed to play them, apparently.


Why??? If their contracts are ripped up do they not become free agents and able to sign for whoever they

[Hibernia&Alba]

Someone like Ticketus maybe?

As you say though the football club have got to dodge two massive bullets, the big tax case and the player contracts invertigations and who is to say there wont be more.

My Dad and me were gassing about the whole thing and his opinion was (early on in this whole thing) 'it feels like the way watergate was' I'm too young to know exactly what that means but I think it's in the way little bits of info keep piling up, revealed day after day.

Your dad may have made a very apposite comparison. Watergate was before my time, too, but I recently read an excellent account of the Nixon presidency which went into minute detail of Watergate. Rangers it seems are also trying to hold back the tide; surviving day to day as the truth comes ever closer. As CWG has explained, they have enormous issues hanging over them which aren't going away. 'Follow the money', as Deepthroat said.

[stokesmessiah]

RFC chasing Whyte for monies owed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17232197

[WindyMiller]

Not a patch on Sally Magnusson anyway.


:agree:

Mother of five ,or no.

:aok:

[Twa Cairpets]

Speculation you say. No one has or will be released today. Meanwhile the Pars have to whistle for their cash.

You have to bear in mind that this is administration. There are legal requirements that must be taken care of which by far transcend any bias, perceived or otherwise. By the way, I'm with you, its obscene that the Pars aren't getting their dough, but its not Rangers getting away with murder.

If the administrators dont cut costs - which may be a universal pay cut rather than redundancies - they are being delinquent in their duties. Frankly, depending on when the salary pay dates fall due, there may be no advantage in making someone redundant today if theyve been paid up to the weekend. Just a thought.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why??? If their contracts are ripped up do they not become free agents and able to sign for whoever they

There is another thread on this somewhere. The accepted wisdom is that players who weren't free agents at the start of the "closed" period can't play for anyone else.

Go and argue with them on that thread :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

RFC (in admin). Who holds a security over it? Craig Whyte, Ticketus, Rosemary the telephone operator ..... ?

RFCG, the holding company, have a floating charge over all of RFC's assets. However, that charge is for monies owed to them. As far as I can see, RFC don't owe RFCG anything, so the charge is useless.

[J-C]

There is another thread on this somewhere. The accepted wisdom is that players who weren't free agents at the start of the "closed" period can't play for anyone else.

Go and argue with them on that thread :greengrin


I had a wee look and realised you were right, I did post on the Neil Alexander thread quoting from wiki the fact.

Anyway who's arguing, just asking. :greengrin


Getting the facts right are important

[CropleyWasGod]

Your dad may have made a very apposite comparison. Watergate was before my time, too, but I recently read an excellent account of the Nixon presidency which went into minute detail of Watergate. Rangers it seems are also trying to hold back the tide; surviving day to day as the truth comes ever closer. As CWG has explained, they have enormous issues hanging over them which aren't going away. 'Follow the money', as Deepthroat said.

Deep Throat? Sally Magnusson?

This thread has it all......:hibees

[johnrebus]

:agree:

Mother of five ,or no.

:aok:


Hmmm, probably a velcro job then?

Ah'll get ma coat.



:offski:

[CropleyWasGod]

RFC chasing Whyte for monies owed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17232197

Another wee twist.

I can understand them going after the balance of the Ticketus cash, but the extra £5m is news to me.

I do remember CW making promises, when he first came in, about £xmillion for working capital, and £xmillion for players, and it may be something to do with that.

[nonshinyfinish]

In a liquidation event all points won are removed. In a situation where second contracts the result changes to a nil-3 loss to the offender.

Not sure what difference this makes, but if Rangers cheated Well wouldn't lose the points they won, we'd just gain them too.

If the results all became 3-0 defeats, we'd still be above Well - we'd gain more extra points than them, rather than losing less in the event of results being entirely annulled.

[CropleyWasGod]

If the results all became 3-0 defeats, we'd still be above Well - we'd gain more extra points than them, rather than losing less in the event of results being entirely annulled.

Who missed the Huns' penalty?

[Andy74]

:agree:

Mother of five ,or no.

:aok:

Dear god no, nothing remotely attractive about Sally Magnuson.

[nonshinyfinish]

Who missed the Huns' penalty?

:hilarious

Excellent.

[J-C]

Another wee twist.

I can understand them going after the balance of the Ticketus cash, but the extra £5m is news to me.

I do remember CW making promises, when he first came in, about £xmillion for working capital, and £xmillion for players, and it may be something to do with that.

Will this not be the Jelevic money

[CropleyWasGod]

Will this not be the Jelevic money

Possibly, actually. Traynor asked about that a couple of weeks ago.

I doubt that it was all paid at once, though.

And then there's the Arsenal shares money.:rolleyes:

[Andy74]

Will this not be the Jelevic money

Seems to be more of a promise that was made on the inital takeover deal.

[J-C]

Possibly, actually. Traynor asked about that a couple of weeks ago.

I doubt that it was all paid at once, though.

And then there's the Arsenal shares money.:rolleyes:


This is what this guy does, he comes in, strips the company bare and puts them into admin, quick year, quick £5-6m then onto his next one.

Murray brought him in to do exactly this, clear the debt and make Rangers better for someone to buy and put money in, no one should be too surprised.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is what this guy does, he comes in, strips the company bare and puts them into admin, quick year, quick £5-6m then onto his next one.

Murray brought him in to do exactly this, clear the debt and make Rangers better for someone to buy and put money in, no one should be too surprised.

Who is going to buy a company with £15m of Revenue debt, and a £24m hole in their income over the next 4 years?

Thus far, I haven't seen CW make anything out of this.

[J-C]

Seems to be more of a promise that was made on the inital takeover deal.

But a promise doesn't mean there's money there, I could promise to buy everyone on this site a pint at the next home game, doesn't mean I'm going to do it though.:greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

These administrators were appointed by Whyte before a deadline which have resulted in HMRC appointing their own. I can think this is significant, if Whyte was keen to make it happen. Are they in his pocket? Whose interests are they serving?

[CropleyWasGod]

But a promise doesn't mean there's money there, I could promise to buy everyone on this site a pint at the next home game, doesn't mean I'm going to do it though.:greengrin

Think he must have signed up to something, and is now getting sued for not doing it.

If you didny buy everyone a pint, you'd get a doing an all :greengrin

[J-C]

Who is going to buy a company with £15m of Revenue debt, and a £24m hole in their income over the next 4 years?

Thus far, I haven't seen CW make anything out of this.


In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

[J-C]

Think he must have signed up to something, and is now getting sued for not doing it.

If you didny buy everyone a pint, you'd get a doing an all :greengrin


Pretty sure he only promised to pay off the bank when he took over, Ticketus money was used for that.

[CropleyWasGod]

In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

Three holes in that argument:-

1. HMRC won't accept that offer. They don't agree to such arrangements. As they are largest creditor thus far, an arrangement like that won't get passed.

2. RFC have had £24m of season ticket sales for the next 4 years. That means that the first 25,000 ST fans at very home game, for the next 4 seasons, have effectively already paid; Ticketus get that cash. In your scenario, the new company won't see that cash. Even in a full house, only half have paid.

3. it ignores the Big Tax Case

[easty]

HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) .

Would they? Sets a precedent doesn't it?

[Spike Mandela]

Ha there been a list of creditors published and how much Rangers owe to each? Very little being mentioned about creditors by administrators and media.

[J-C]

Two holes in that argument:-

1. HMRC won't accept that offer. They don't agree to such arrangements. As they are largest creditor thus far, an arrangement like that won't get passed.

2. RFC have had £24m of season ticket sales for the next 4 year. That means that the first 25,000 fans at very home game, for the next 4 seasons, have already paid. In your scenario, the new company won't see that cash. Even in a full house, only half have paid.


HMRC would have to accept as there's no more money for them, better than nowt, it's happened to other companies. At the mo Rangers only owe £9m from last year, the £24m-45m is only if they win their legal case in the courts.

Don't know how many season tickets Rangers sell but they get an average of 53,000ish, if 30,000 are already sold for the next 4 years then Rangers have only got the other 23,000 game tickets to play with, hence why people are saying it'll take around 4-5 years for Rangers to get back to normal.
That's why the £25m cash injection from new owners is important.

[stokesmessiah]

Would they? Sets a precedent doesn't it?


Nae chance they will. They already said they would appeal, appeal and appeal some if the decision went against them, they want that money.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ha there been a list of creditors published and how much Rangers owe to each? Very little being mentioned about creditors by administrators and media.

They will do, in due course. It's a requirement of their appointment.

[CropleyWasGod]

HMRC would have to accept as there's no more money for them, better than nowt, it's happened to other companies. At the mo Rangers only owe £9m from last year, the £24m-45m is only if they win their legal case in the courts.

Don't know how many season tickets Rangers sell but they get an average of 53,000ish, if 30,000 are already sold for the next 4 years then Rangers have only got the other 23,000 game tickets to play with, hence why people are saying it'll take around 4-5 years for Rangers to get back to normal.
That's why the £25m cash injection from new owners is important.

No they won't. It's Revenue policy not to agree to CVA's.

RFC owe £15m for the last year, since CW took over, not £9m.

And the BTC is not for £24-25m. It's £49m.

Oh, and Ibrox's capacity is only 51k. Their average is a lot less than that . Sorry!!

[jgl07]

Three holes in that argument:-

1. HMRC won't accept that offer. They don't agree to such arrangements. As they are largest creditor thus far, an arrangement like that won't get passed.

2. RFC have had £24m of season ticket sales for the next 4 years. That means that the first 25,000 ST fans at very home game, for the next 4 seasons, have effectively already paid; Ticketus get that cash. In your scenario, the new company won't see that cash. Even in a full house, only half have paid.

3. it ignores the Big Tax Case

HMRC want a big scalp. They want to bring down a big football club "pour encourager les autres". The bigger the better. There are few bigger, in this context, than Rangers.

They have been stiffed too many times by the likes of Leeds getting away with 1 pence in the pound on outstanding tax bills and by Portsmouth last time around. Even if liquidation yields less than a CVA they will go for it.

They will go for the jugular and then maybe clubs will realize that taxes have to be paid.

Rangers are likely to lose the big tax case (£49 million) and the wee tax case (£4.3 million) and compound this by paying nothing for the best part of a year.

The recent situation is not tax evasion or avoidance, it is theft. They deducted PAYE taxes and National Insurance from employees' wages and charged VAT on tickets and trousered the lot.

[magpie1892]

Would they? Sets a precedent doesn't it?

In this financial climate, and with the past, negative publicity surrounding 'sweetner' tax deals for big companies... not a chance in hell.

[magpie1892]

Don't know how many season tickets Rangers sell but they get an average of 53,000ish,

Unlikely, given Ipox holds 51,000. Average is nearer 44,000 this season and you're assuming they would all turn up to watch a decimated team (if RFC survive, which seems increasingly unlikely), not in Europe, and knowing that their ST money is already spent...

[blindsummit]

If Rangers get away with some sort of deal that leaves them able to continue on in whatever form, as before, with the taxman stiffed and their cheating overlooked, then the charade that is the Scottish game is dead and buried. The corruption and bias will be laid bare, so what's the point for those clubs who've followed the rules. In my opinion this is the one and only chance, the last stand, to create any semblence of a fair game in Scotland. We miss this chance then, what's the point, other than a vestigal emotional attacheent for non-OF club supporters to their clubs. Without even the pretence of a chance at a level playing field, the game is dead. Sorry to be so gloomy, but I have no faith in the Scottish establishment to do what's right.

By rights by now Rankgers should have been stripped bare, relegated or thrown out of the league, and several people would be perp walked. But it seems like business as usual.

That cheered me up no end <l> :greengrin

never mind, tomorrow's Saturday and we can hammer the Saints, whilst applauding them for being like us, an honest well run club. No stench of cheating at ER tomorrow at least.

[CropleyWasGod]

Unlikely, given Ipox holds 51,000. Average is nearer 44,000 this season and you're assuming they would all turn up to watch a decimated team (if RFC survive, which seems increasingly unlikely), not in Europe, and knowing that their ST money is already spent...

...which is my point about "why would anyone want to buy them the way things are?".

It's a slippery slope. Less cash--->fewer class players-----> less glory-----> less punters------> less cash.

[magpie1892]

...which is my point about "why would anyone want to buy them the way things are?".

It's a slippery slope. Less cash--->fewer class players-----> less glory-----> less punters------> less cash.

These 'Blue Knight' characters, and others like them, may well have hun wellbeing at heart but there's not a chance you'd take a punt on the club at the moment unless you could afford to write off the thick end of £100m for zero return.

My man on the ground says liquidation is the likely outcome. Rangers Football Club will cease to exist.

[matty_f]

In this financial climate, and with the past, negative publicity surrounding 'sweetner' tax deals for big companies... not a chance in hell.

:agree: HMRC got hammered for the deal that they did with Vodafone, amongst others - with questions over the legality of the deal raised in Parliament, IIRC.

No way that they'll take a fraction of what's owed, they're going after the lot - they kind of have to otherwise where's the incentive for any company to pay their taxes? Everyone would just hold off until the HMRC got round to dealing with them, then plead poverty.

The more I read about what Rangers have been doing, the more I want to see them disappear.

[CropleyWasGod]

These 'Blue Knight' characters, and others like them, may well have hun wellbeing at heart but there's not a chance you'd take a punt on the club at the moment unless you could afford to write off the thick end of £100m for zero return.

My man on the ground says liquidation is the likely outcome. Rangers Football Club will cease to exist.

Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

[magpie1892]

By rights by now Rankgers should have been stripped bare, relegated or thrown out of the league, and several people would be perp walked. But it seems like business as usual.

I'm not so sure. I think, finally, it's beginning to dawn on the SFA and SPL that they can't just call it a ten point deduction and leave it at that - assuming that hun remain a going concern, which looks a long shot. In this day and age, and with UEFA watching, the 'powers that be' are going to have to ask the clubs what they want if hun or new hun are to have any future in Scottish Football.

[Cropley10]

You have to bear in mind that this is administration. There are legal requirements that must be taken care of which by far transcend any bias, perceived or otherwise. By the way, I'm with you, its obscene that the Pars aren't getting their dough, but its not Rangers getting away with murder.

If the administrators dont cut costs - which may be a universal pay cut rather than redundancies - they are being delinquent in their duties. Frankly, depending on when the salary pay dates fall due, there may be no advantage in making someone redundant today if theyve been paid up to the weekend. Just a thought.

:agree: I concur. All the players were paid in full and on time the other day. Assuming it's in arrears then they're now playing for 'free' until such time as they're salary is due to be paid later in March, so sacking them today means they can't play tomorrow, and they 'might' not actually have another pay day, or D&P 'might' get their hands on more of CW's cash to pay them....

Funny how the MSM are falling over themselves to tell us that players will be 'axed'...

[Cropley10]

Possibly, actually. Traynor asked about that a couple of weeks ago.

I doubt that it was all paid at once, though.

And then there's the Arsenal shares money.:rolleyes:

I read that they turned down £7m from WHUFC, as it was in installments, but took the EFC cash as it was upfront.

[magpie1892]

Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.


Sure, it's 99% of the time a vanity purchase but these guys haven't got £100m so throw away. Certainly not on a club in as poor and low-profile league as the SPL.

Interesting times ahead but, with a certainty of 95%, the rangers we know and dislike is finished in its current form.

[CropleyWasGod]

I read that they turned down £7m from WHUFC, as it was in installments, but took the EFC cash as it was upfront.

Ah okay, I didn't know that.

[Cropley10]

Whose interests are they serving?

They are answerable to the Court, as I understand it.


But a promise doesn't mean there's money there, I could promise to buy everyone on this site a pint at the next home game, doesn't mean I'm going to do it though.:greengrin

It as written in to the Share Purchase Agreement what Whyte had to do


In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

I don't believe HMRC do deals for tax owing, certainly not PAYE/NIC/VAT - that is non-negotiable.

RFC1873 are goosed.

What we must ALL do is make such a noise that RFC2012 can NOT be admitted back to the SPL.

[jgl07]

Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

The other ones to have made money from a football club are the Glazers who have been bleeding Man United white since their leveraged takeover (chortle).

I agree with the 'take a hit now' argument. It could be less than five years if the meltdown of Rangers and Hearts acts a a catalyst for restructuring Scottish Football. Start in Division 3 in 2012-2013 and win it,. There may be a 18-team SPL and a 24-team SPL 2 emerging by 2013-2014. Rangers and Hearts could be back in by 2014-2015.

[Mikey]

Rangers Football Club will cease to exist.


the rangers we know and dislike is finished in its current form.

You certainly have a way with words :greengrin

[BSEJVT]

In admin that wouldn't happen, offer creditors 10-15p in the pound, HMRC would be happy taking £5m to cover tax( better than nowt ) that'd be the Jelevic money, Ticketus would get their money evey year and new investors start off with no debt and whatever they invest to spend. Say 5 investors at £5m each, start new Rangers off with £25 revenue and no debt.

Not so sure Ticketus would and that's maybe the angle here

I would have thought they were unsecured creditors who get ****pence in the £

Whyte buys the company out of admin and ends up with a company he could have paid £18m for for say £1m from the Administrators

Next years season ticket money comes back into the coffers

Revenue also get ****pence on the NI & PAYE and old Rangers are liquidated to be replaced by new Rangers

[Andy74]

The other ones to have made money from a football club are the Glazers who have been bleeding Man United white since their leveraged takeover (chortle).

I agree with the 'take a hit now' argument. It could be less than five years if the meltdown of Rangers and Hearts acts a a catalyst for restructuring Scottish Football. Start in Division 3 in 2012-2013 and win it,. There may be a 18-team SPL and a 24-team SPL 2 emerging by 2013-2014. Rangers and Hearts could be back in by 2014-2015.

Hearts still won't admit they have a problem though.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You certainly have a way with words :greengrin


I like him. :flag:

[Twa Cairpets]

Investing in a football club is very rarely a smart business move. I can only think of Fergus McCann in recent years who has made a decent return. The model only works when it's a fan with cash to burn, such as Jack Walker, or a philanthropic situation, such as STF.

If I was advising RFC just now, I would be saying the same as I have been saying to Hearts fans for a few years. Take the hit now. Go down to Division 3. You'll be back in the SPL in 5 years with little debt.

The more this goes on, the more this is the only fair sporting outcome open to the SFA.

Much as I'd personally like to see them eviscerated to the extent of permament extinction, it is a sad fact that there are enough of these repugnant reptiles to ensure they keep going as rfc2012. Actually going down might be a boost for the game - full houses in div 3 and 2 and 1 as they come back up, possibly humbler (although that's a long shot, I know). It'd be a abugger if you were relegated form div 2 the year the huns got promoted though.

Dream scenario would be Hearts and Rangers battling it out fo rthe 3rd division crown next season. That would be very funny. Do they still do the B&Q Cup in some form?

[blindsummit]

I'm not so sure. I think, finally, it's beginning to dawn on the SFA and SPL that they can't just call it a ten point deduction and leave it at that - assuming that hun remain a going concern, which looks a long shot. In this day and age, and with UEFA watching, the 'powers that be' are going to have to ask the clubs what they want if hun or new hun are to have any future in Scottish Football.

I sincerely hope you are right. As I say, I think this is the one window of opportunity to save the Scottish game for the future. We'll see if the powers that be have the stomach for it.

[ac1]

Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed :agree:!

Liquidation I think..............

[Hibernia&Alba]

Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed :agree:!

Liquidation I think..............



May I just say to all at Rangers :giruy:

[TrinityHibs]

Can we not just get Rentokil in to sort out this mess?

[Phil D. Rolls]

A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.


-How is that possible? They already make the BNP look credible.

[DH1875]

1 million a month, where they gonna get that from? these administrators aren't half dragging their heals. Shut them down.

[Phil D. Rolls]

-How is that possible? They already make the BNP look credible.

Fair play, but I rather see them as being like the likes of the Peronists in Argentina.

[Dashing Bob S]

A new Ranges, in a Scotland that will be fighting about the Union for years to come. It's an interesting scenario. The Rangers that emerges may be one that is more reactionary and divisive than anything we've seen up till now.

Aaaaaggghhhh!!!!


I thought 'how is that possible?'


Then I thought it through, and you could be right. Take the existing white trash bigoted lowlife fan base, and shear it of its sense of entitlement, pomp, and delusions of grandeur of being the team of 'the crown and the British establishment in Scotland', and add a good measure of hunted, persecuted bitterness. The only place for it to go is to resurrect as some pseudo sporting falangist movement.

Have Hearts been informed?

[greenginger]

Need to save £1 million a month - no way in this football climate - they are screwed :agree:!

Liquidation I think..............

Save a million a month, not a problem - start with sensible wages £2000 a week maximum, and do they really need 13 in media dept and 22 in marketing, never mind 20 coaches.

Operate like Inverness or St Johnston and they could repay all their debts in 10 years.


Oh, but I forgot they believe that -- " They Deserve Better " :wink:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Time for the calculators to come out I think. Rallying call is to fill Ibroke from now until the season end. Against Killie, we could all hear the "fans" that had been missing. So, it is extra revenue, less the repeat fines for the open racism from the stands? That might just even itself out.

[ancient hibee]

Dear god no, nothing remotely attractive about Sally Magnuson.

Wash your mouth out with soap young man.

[Bishop Hibee]

They are answerable to the Court, as I understand it.



It as written in to the Share Purchase Agreement what Whyte had to do



I don't believe HMRC do deals for tax owing, certainly not PAYE/NIC/VAT - that is non-negotiable.

RFC1873 are goosed.

What we must ALL do is make such a noise that RFC2012 can NOT be admitted back to the SPL.

Agree. It's looking more and more likely that Rangers will go into liquidation as opposed to a "blue knight" coming to the rescue. The revelations by Hugh Adam in the Daily Mail are mind boggling. If the SFA are complicit in ignoring the EBT issue then I doubt any investor will go near Rangers with a barge pole until the whole sorry mess is exposed.

If they do try for re-entry into the SPL then we must all write to the Hibs board expressing our disagreement. I never thought I"d stop getting a ST for anything other than financial pressure but I'd have to think seriously if I'd bother if they get back in.

Loving their demise :giruy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Agree. It's looking more and more likely that Rangers will go into liquidation as opposed to a "blue knight" coming to the rescue. The revelations by Hugh Adam in the Daily Mail are mind boggling. If the SFA are complicit in ignoring the EBT issue then I doubt any investor will go near Rangers with a barge pole until the whole sorry mess is exposed.

If they do try for re-entry into the SPL then we must all write to the Hibs board expressing our disagreement. I never thought I"d stop getting a ST for anything other than financial pressure but I'd have to think seriously if I'd bother if they get back in.

Loving their demise :giruy:

In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?

People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.

What's sauce for the goose, etc.

(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?

People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.

What's sauce for the goose, etc.

(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.

Two different situations , FR.

We were able to restructure and trade out of it. We paid our taxes. We didn't stiff any other clubs. We didn't stiff anybody, IIRC. (except maybe Messrs. Duff, Gray and Rowland.)

RFC are absolutely unable to trade out of this, without the silliest of silly money coming their way from the silliest of silly people.

[Hibernia&Alba]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

[CropleyWasGod]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

Well, I dunno about you, but that has certainly changed my mind.:aok:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Well, I dunno about you, but that has certainly changed my mind.:aok:

I'm 50-50 :greengrin

[Saorsa]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.Aye but then they're no in 21st century Scotland, they're still in 17th :agree:

I welcome their demise http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies 2/bluebearsurrender.gif

[Phil D. Rolls]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

Says little for the Church of Scotland, that the Protestant faith is having to rely on a discredited football club to carry the torch. At times of dilemma like this, I tend to find myself asking - what wpuld Mason Boyne do?

[tamig]

Aye but then they're no in 21st century Scotland, they're still in 17th :agree:

I welcome their demise http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies 2/bluebearsurrender.gif

Exactly. Bigoted dinosaurs. It beggars belief.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Exactly. Bigoted dinosaurs. It beggars belief.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it -


I can understand what most of you are saying and have indeed felt that way at time times. What I would say to you is this.

The Rangers Football Club, as you know is more than just a club. At one point it represented the Protestant community in Scotland and still does for the most part. The Tarriers hate this.

If Rangers, the company dies, Rangers the club will live on in a new form. That club will still represent the Protestant community in Scotland. The Tarriers will hate this but also fear and envy this. We must not desert Rangers for if we do, we desert the other Bluenoses we know and Scotland will be left to 'them'.

A new Rangers can be 'our Rangers'. The Gallant men who formed the club in the first place would at first probably be amazed, then appalled that it has come to this. However, I believe that they would be proud that the club would be taken into the hands of those who love it most, just like those young men. They will hate this.

Rangers must survive in some form but more importantly, the people who currently support the club must hold firm and stick together. That is the strong point. It is 'us' they hate and by killing Rangers they think that if they kill the focal point then we will disappear. We will not. Never. They will hate this.

If the worst scenario happens and the company that is The Rangers is liquidated, we come back and our aim is to make sure that they not only remain the second most successful club in Scotland but become the third most successful. The Rangers will be the most successful for a long time yet.

[Saorsa]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/mccoistbf.gif

[Andy74]

Wash your mouth out with soap young man.

I'd have to!

[Andy74]

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it -


I can understand what most of you are saying and have indeed felt that way at time times. What I would say to you is this.

The Rangers Football Club, as you know is more than just a club. At one point it represented the Protestant community in Scotland and still does for the most part. The Tarriers hate this.

If Rangers, the company dies, Rangers the club will live on in a new form. That club will still represent the Protestant community in Scotland. The Tarriers will hate this but also fear and envy this. We must not desert Rangers for if we do, we desert the other Bluenoses we know and Scotland will be left to 'them'.

A new Rangers can be 'our Rangers'. The Gallant men who formed the club in the first place would at first probably be amazed, then appalled that it has come to this. However, I believe that they would be proud that the club would be taken into the hands of those who love it most, just like those young men. They will hate this.

Rangers must survive in some form but more importantly, the people who currently support the club must hold firm and stick together. That is the strong point. It is 'us' they hate and by killing Rangers they think that if they kill the focal point then we will disappear. We will not. Never. They will hate this.

If the worst scenario happens and the company that is The Rangers is liquidated, we come back and our aim is to make sure that they not only remain the second most successful club in Scotland but become the third most successful. The Rangers will be the most successful for a long time yet.

It is one worry that's being played out a bit. In times of stress the lowest denominator gets a chance to come to the fore. There is a real danger that any new Rangers would be an even worse version of all that was wrong with the previous one.

[CropleyWasGod]

It is one worry that's being played out a bit. In times of stress the lowest denominator gets a chance to come to the fore. There is a real danger that any new Rangers would be an even worse version of all that was wrong with the previous one.

You getting cold feet, boy? :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'd have to!

I've got to agree Andy, I dinnae see the attraction either!

[tamig]

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it -


I can understand what most of you are saying and have indeed felt that way at time times. What I would say to you is this.

The Rangers Football Club, as you know is more than just a club. At one point it represented the Protestant community in Scotland and still does for the most part. The Tarriers hate this.

If Rangers, the company dies, Rangers the club will live on in a new form. That club will still represent the Protestant community in Scotland. The Tarriers will hate this but also fear and envy this. We must not desert Rangers for if we do, we desert the other Bluenoses we know and Scotland will be left to 'them'.

A new Rangers can be 'our Rangers'. The Gallant men who formed the club in the first place would at first probably be amazed, then appalled that it has come to this. However, I believe that they would be proud that the club would be taken into the hands of those who love it most, just like those young men. They will hate this.

Rangers must survive in some form but more importantly, the people who currently support the club must hold firm and stick together. That is the strong point. It is 'us' they hate and by killing Rangers they think that if they kill the focal point then we will disappear. We will not. Never. They will hate this.

If the worst scenario happens and the company that is The Rangers is liquidated, we come back and our aim is to make sure that they not only remain the second most successful club in Scotland but become the third most successful. The Rangers will be the most successful for a long time yet.

That is pure bile. I find it hard to understand why there are still people in this age who feel this way. The sad thing as well is that the writer has probably never set foot in a church other than for weddings or funerals. These people do not belong in 21st century Scotland.

[pacorosssco]

A million a month to get to end of season. Surely the can be made up from wages? across the board reduction as has been quoted of 50%. Ally gonna work for free.

I wouldn't rule out deluded huns managing to cough it up between them.

It will be intersting to see who is prepared to give up what though and which high earners will be looking for free as a result of breach of contract come end of season

Rangers will make the end of the season but then I suspect the real fun will begin .

Craig Whyte surely is a Celtic fan in disguise or a modern day del boy.

Fun times

Watch the SFA save them though. There will be no relegation and the 11 majority vote will some how survive

[Hibernia&Alba]

It is one worry that's being played out a bit. In times of stress the lowest denominator gets a chance to come to the fore. There is a real danger that any new Rangers would be an even worse version of all that was wrong with the previous one.

Their antics have pandered to the lowest common denominator for 140 years and have caused problems ever since. Any new Rangers could only have a fraction of the strength of its the current set up. The days of their imagined supremacy are long since gone, so whilst they still occupy the 17th century the rest of the world has moved on without them. They remind me of the bigots in the American deep south who tried clinging to their social supremacy in the 1960s, only for the tide of change to sweep them away. They can't fight the tide of history.

[Bostonhibby]

'Protestant Scotland's last hope' is the lament I have just read on a Rangers forum. Rangers must survive in order to ensure Scotland doesn't become a slave of the Vatican, apparently, and the Labour part are complicit in this plot. In the twenty-first century, that folks, is the mentality we are dealing with. The possible loss of their football club isn't the main concern, it's mis-informed religious nonsense that so often manifests itself. And they are incredulous that the rest of the country is keenly awaiting their demise.

Jeez:confused: Last hope or last chance of dragging the corpse over the line into the 20th Century just after the rest of the modern British football supporting community are charging into the 21st? Just die boys, or set up some other narrow minded institutions that you can maybe attend every match day when the rest of us are watching football. If enough of you have spare time on your hands you could maybe call it a lodge, or something like that.
We'll do just fine without you and your like.

[Spike Mandela]

I've got to agree Andy, I dinnae see the attraction either!

Have to say Sally Magnusson is a guilty pleasure for me at 6.30pm most nights. Incredible that she is 56yrs old!!:cb

[Hibernia&Alba]

Have to say Sally Magnusson is a guilty pleasure for me at 6.30pm most nights. Incredible that she is 56yrs old!!:cb

Spike, your love of MILF is moving the debate off track......


Any pics? :cb

[nonshinyfinish]

Spike, your love of MILF is moving the debate off track......


Any pics? :cb

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02108/magnusson_2108654b.jpg

[Bostonhibby]

Have to say Sally Magnusson is a guilty pleasure for me at 6.30pm most nights. Incredible that she is 56yrs old!!:cb

Have to say I marginally prefer Desert Orchid, even allowing for the similarities.

[Spike Mandela]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02108/magnusson_2108654b.jpg



Ooooooohhhhhhh I've started so I'll finish ahhhhhhhhhh that's better!:cb

[J-C]

They are answerable to the Court, as I understand it.



It as written in to the Share Purchase Agreement what Whyte had to do



I don't believe HMRC do deals for tax owing, certainly not PAYE/NIC/VAT - that is non-negotiable.

RFC1873 are goosed.

What we must ALL do is make such a noise that RFC2012 can NOT be admitted back to the SPL.


I, like you and a lot of other here are trying to guess the ins and outs of what this is all about and who owes what exactly, I suppose we'll just keep guessing till the administrators spill all the beans.

[J-C]

Unlikely, given Ipox holds 51,000. Average is nearer 44,000 this season and you're assuming they would all turn up to watch a decimated team (if RFC survive, which seems increasingly unlikely), not in Europe, and knowing that their ST money is already spent...

Didn't know exactly, just a guestimate :greengrin

[J-C]

Not so sure Ticketus would and that's maybe the angle here

I would have thought they were unsecured creditors who get ****pence in the £

Whyte buys the company out of admin and ends up with a company he could have paid £18m for for say £1m from the Administrators

Next years season ticket money comes back into the coffers

Revenue also get ****pence on the NI & PAYE and old Rangers are liquidated to be replaced by new Rangers


Ticketus wasn't mentioned, they get their money every year the fans pay their season tickets, their money's safe.

[brianmc]

With the state of play at the huns even the most die hard fan would be mad to commit to a season ticket(especially if the cash goes to secured creditor Whyte?). So surely if no one buys a season then ticketus are screwed for getting their cash back??

[I'm_cabbaged]

With the state of play at the huns even the most die hard fan would be mad to commit to a season ticket(especially if the cash goes to secured creditor Whyte?). So surely if no one buys a season then ticketus are screwed for getting their cash back??

Not too sure, but with them owning say thirty thousand st's the currants wouldn't be able to sell tickets for these seats. ,;)

[alfie]

With the threat of redundancies etc. postponed until next week, do you think that the PFA and players have been playing hardball? Presumably if D&P reduced wages without their agreement, the players can claim breach of contract and withdraw their services and RFC couldn't field a team. I assume there are significant financial penalties for them if that was to happen which is why D&P are playing nice with the players?

[TornadoHibby]

RFCG, the holding company, have a floating charge over all of RFC's assets. However, that charge is for monies owed to them. As far as I can see, RFC don't owe RFCG anything, so the charge is useless.

As I've said before CWG, whether the charge is effective or not depends on the terms of the loans between RFC and RFCG and that would require sight of the loan and security documentation!

We're just going to have to wait till the Administrators have reviewed that and decided how to proceed thereafter!

[Twa Cairpets]

With the threat of redundancies etc. postponed until next week, do you think that the PFA and players have been playing hardball? Presumably if D&P reduced wages without their agreement, the players can claim breach of contract and withdraw their services and RFC couldn't field a team. I assume there are significant financial penalties for them if that was to happen which is why D&P are playing nice with the players?

Option of breach of contract disappears with administration. "Don't like the wage reduction, no problem here's your p45." D&P will not (and more importantly cannot) be held to ransom by some truculent players.

[Hibs Class]

Option of breach of contract disappears with administration. "Don't like the wage reduction, no problem here's your p45." D&P will not (and more importantly cannot) be held to ransom by some truculent players.

Truculent managers on the other hand..........

[Cropley10]

Ticketus wasn't mentioned, they get their money every year the fans pay their season tickets, their money's safe.

Not if they're liquidated, right?

And even if they survive admin (somehow) the Hun can simply not by a ST and Ticketless get nothing...

[CentreLine]

Quote from todays Daily Express. "SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan is confident the SFA's Independent Enquiry into the on-going problems at rangers will be brought to a close this week"

Assuming that is accurate, am I the only one that thinks this has been concluded with unseemly haste? After all we are getting fresh revelations and accusations made on a daily basis. Surely the SFA is not attempting to wind this up before the real dirty washing is on display. I am wondering whether in fact the enquiry should not have been conducted by UEFA so as to increase the likelihood of genuine independent comment and openness. Few would question the verdict and SFA/SPL would not be able to squirm out of the findings if they went against their beloved rangers.

[Hibbyradge]

Quote from todays Daily Express. "SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan is confident the SFA's Independent Enquiry into the on-going problems at rangers will be brought to a close this week"

Assuming that is accurate, am I the only one that thinks this has been concluded with unseemly haste? After all we are getting fresh revelations and accusations made on a daily basis. Surely the SFA is not attempting to wind this up before the real dirty washing is on display. I am wondering whether in fact the enquiry should not have been conducted by UEFA so as to increase the likelihood of genuine independent comment and openness. Few would question the verdict and SFA/SPL would not be able to squirm out of the findings if they went against their beloved rangers.

I guess it depends on the findings.

[CentreLine]

I guess it depends on the findings.

Yes, but those findings can only be based on what we already know. My point is that there appears to be a lot more dirt under the fingernails than we have seen to date. If the SFA publish something this coming week surely it has to be an interim finding :dunno:

[greenlex]

Are D&P doing their job right?
Reported £!M per month shortfall. They have they been there 3 weeks and not one cost cutting measure. If I was owe money I would be absolutely livid.

[Seveno]

Are D&P doing their job right?
Reported £!M per month shortfall. They have they been there 3 weeks and not one cost cutting measure. If I was owe money I would be absolutely livid.

They have got rid of Smith and Russell. Not much admittedly but it was a start.

I have to say though that I agree with the sentiment of your post and I am a bit suspicious of their role in this whole affair.

[cad]

Quote from todays Daily Express. "SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan is confident the SFA's Independent Enquiry into the on-going problems at rangers will be brought to a close this week"

Assuming that is accurate, am I the only one that thinks this has been concluded with unseemly haste? After all we are getting fresh revelations and accusations made on a daily basis. Surely the SFA is not attempting to wind this up before the real dirty washing is on display. I am wondering whether in fact the enquiry should not have been conducted by UEFA so as to increase the likelihood of genuine independent comment and openness. Few would question the verdict and SFA/SPL would not be able to squirm out of the findings if they went against their beloved rangers.



Maybe the SFA are just trying to get it over an done with then move on ,or maybe the utter uselessness of how they perform on a daily basis would come to light with a UEFA investigation, the players contracts are a starter for 10.

[Hibbyradge]

They have got rid of Smith and Russell. Not much admittedly but it was a start.

I have to say though that I agree with the sentiment of your post and I am a bit suspicious of their role in this whole affair.

As far as I understand it, their primary role is to keep Rangers solvent.

[CropleyWasGod]

Are D&P doing their job right?
Reported £!M per month shortfall. They have they been there 3 weeks and not one cost cutting measure. If I was owe money I would be absolutely livid.

I wouldn't.

It's not just about cutting costs. They have to maximise income too.

Being able to establish the story about the Ticketus cash, and get the missing cash back, was a big step.

They also have to have an eye on the potential sale of the club. There is a balancing act between keeping saleable assets, which boost the selling value of the club, and cutting current costs.

[CropleyWasGod]

As far as I understand it, their primary role is to keep Rangers solvent.

Not quite. It's to look after the interests of the creditors and shareholders.

[CropleyWasGod]

As I've said before CWG, whether the charge is effective or not depends on the terms of the loans between RFC and RFCG and that would require sight of the loan and security documentation!

We're just going to have to wait till the Administrators have reviewed that and decided how to proceed thereafter!

It seems they may have.

From Today's Record:-

The Record understands that administrators believe Whyte has no power to break up the club’s assets and keep Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park for himself.


If this is true, it is very significant. Establishing this is a big step, and gives me comfort that the admins are doing things the right way.

[johnrebus]

Quote from todays Daily Express. "SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan is confident the SFA's Independent Enquiry into the on-going problems at rangers will be brought to a close this week"

Assuming that is accurate, am I the only one that thinks this has been concluded with unseemly haste? After all we are getting fresh revelations and accusations made on a daily basis. Surely the SFA is not attempting to wind this up before the real dirty washing is on display. I am wondering whether in fact the enquiry should not have been conducted by UEFA so as to increase the likelihood of genuine independent comment and openness. Few would question the verdict and SFA/SPL would not be able to squirm out of the findings if they went against their beloved rangers.


I think you can bet that there will be Celtic fans all over the globe feverishly sending off email to Geneva as we speak, insisting that UEFA start poking around in earnest.

And I hope they do.


:agree:

[EuanH78]

I think you can bet that there will be Celtic fans all over the globe feverishly sending off email to Geneva as we speak, insisting that UEFA start poking around in earnest.

And I hope they do.


:agree:

That reminds me, I must send an email to Rangers and thank them for bringing such drama and excitement to an otherwise stale and boring SPL setup. :greengrin

[Seveno]

That reminds me, I must send an email to Rangers and thank them for bringing such drama and excitement to an otherwise stale and boring SPL setup. :greengrin

Particularly kind of them considering that things have gone quiet over at our usual source of entertainment at the PBS.

[EuanH78]

Particularly kind of them considering that things have gone quiet over at our usual source of entertainment at the PBS.

Agreed, Vlad clearly not wanting to steal the limelight. Such a magnanimous chap.

[EuanH78]

Given some of the posts on here about the SFA bias towards any investigation of GRFC, perhaps Vlad is merely sitting back gloating.
His rants about the Glasgow and SFA mafia seem to be given some creedence albeit indirectly.

On another note, it has been reported that some Rangers fans are going to attend Dunfermline's home game to boost the attendance because of the reported missing payment of £80k.
Not a bad gesture if it takes off in good numbers.

To be honest, I always felt he at least had a point about that albeit delivered in the craziest way he could manage.

That actually is a decent gesture from them, luckily though they wont have far to travel from Cowdenbeath and Glenrothes.

[southern hibby]

Given some of the posts on here about the SFA bias towards any investigation of GRFC, perhaps Vlad is merely sitting back gloating.
His rants about the Glasgow and SFA mafia seem to be given some creedence albeit indirectly.

On another note, it has been reported that some Rangers fans are going to attend Dunfermline's home game to boost the attendance because of the reported missing payment of £80k.
Not a bad gesture if it takes off in good numbers.

If this is true, then I for one actually am impressed by this. Their own team is in trouble and a certain amount of fans are actually thinking about a far smaller team that their clubs actions have harmed. A very honourable action. GGTTH

[Keith_M]

If this is true, then I for one actually am impressed by this. Their own team is in trouble and a certain amount of fans are actually thinking about a far smaller team that their clubs actions have harmed. A very honourable action. GGTTH

If they actually turn up.

[ScottB]

If this is true, then I for one actually am impressed by this. Their own team is in trouble and a certain amount of fans are actually thinking about a far smaller team that their clubs actions have harmed. A very honourable action. GGTTH

Definitely to be applauded if it takes place.

In the rush to 'enjoy' this situation, I think some folk tend to forget that not all Rangers fans are knuckle dragging bigoted morons.

[Dashing Bob S]

Given some of the posts on here about the SFA bias towards any investigation of GRFC, perhaps Vlad is merely sitting back gloating.
His rants about the Glasgow and SFA mafia seem to be given some creedence albeit indirectly.

On another note, it has been reported that some Rangers fans are going to attend Dunfermline's home game to boost the attendance because of the reported missing payment of £80k.
Not a bad gesture if it takes off in good numbers.

Even a couple of hundred local bloaters who pretend to be Huns, leaving their replica tops at home and waddling along to East End from their local boozer would help DAFC at the moment.

[Ozyhibby]

Definitely to be applauded if it takes place.

In the rush to 'enjoy' this situation, I think some folk tend to forget that not all Rangers fans are knuckle dragging bigoted morons.

I'll need to see some proof of that.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'll need to see some proof of that.

I too, require some physical evidence.

[Eyrie]

If they leave with ten minutes to go, then you'll know they're Huns.

Still a nice gesture though.

[J-C]

Not if they're liquidated, right?

And even if they survive admin (somehow) the Hun can simply not by a ST and Ticketless get nothing...
At the moment, it's all hypothetical until we find out exactly what's going on.

[BSEJVT]

Not if they're liquidated, right?

And even if they survive admin (somehow) the Hun can simply not by a ST and Ticketless get nothing...

Thats my view

Ticketus's arrangement is with the current LTD Co

That will fall and I think Ticketus will be an unsecured creditor to the current Ltd co

[CropleyWasGod]

Thats my view

Ticketus's arrangement is with the current LTD Co

That will fall and I think Ticketus will be an unsecured creditor to the current Ltd co

Only in the event of liquidation. While the administration continues, the only liability would be for any repayments that are currently due.

I also understand that Ticketus have insurance in place that would cover their outlay in the event of liquidation.

[greenginger]

Thats my view

Ticketus's arrangement is with the current LTD Co

That will fall and I think Ticketus will be an unsecured creditor to the current Ltd co

Whyte got security over Ibrox and Murray Park when Lloyds Bank was paid off . I'd be amazed if Ticketus did'nt get at least a second ranking security over those assets if they were putting up £ 24 million.

[CropleyWasGod]

Whyte got security over Ibrox and Murray Park when Lloyds Bank was paid off . I'd be amazed if Ticketus did'nt get at least a second ranking security over those assets if they were putting up £ 24 million.

There isn't one.

The only security is in favour of the holding company, which the admins now seem to think is invalid.

Don't forget that Ticketus aren't a lender. They bought 100k season tickets; that is their security, underpinned by the insurance I mentioned. CW also claims he has guaranteed the deal, although that might be Whyte.

[Cropley10]

In the interests of fair play, which is something I hope we have and which der Hun lacks. Supposing fans of other clubs had objected to our return to football in 1990 (had we been liquidated)?

People could level the same charge of cheating against us. We got into trouble because we were spending money that didn't exist. We managed to salvage the football club from the wreckage, and then went on to win the League Cup three monts later.

What's sauce for the goose, etc.

(btw my answer to the question is: so what, this is the horrible huns we are talking about, and they have been acting against the interests of other clubs for 100 years, and deserve everything they are about to get off with.

How much did we owe HMRC? And how many illegal contracts did we have :confused:

[greenginger]

There isn't one.

The only security is in favour of the holding company, which the admins now seem to think is invalid.

Don't forget that Ticketus aren't a lender. They bought 100k season tickets; that is their security, underpinned by the insurance I mentioned. CW also claims he has guaranteed the deal, although that might be Whyte.


You don't need to be a lender to get a security, liquidation was always a likely outcome so I would be surprised if the deal was done without some sort of back-up. There would be no necessity to record the security and Ticketus might be playing their cards close to see how things pan out.:aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

If this is true, then I for one actually am impressed by this. Their own team is in trouble and a certain amount of fans are actually thinking about a far smaller team that their clubs actions have harmed. A very honourable action. GGTTH


yet this 'honourable' action will not be extended to dundee utd ? indeed , they want to boycott tannadice, honourable ?? pppfffffffftt

[Littlest Hobo]

I hope they go into liquidation, I hope Hearts do too.

Why?

Because they seem to think they can spend money they haven't got without any consequence. Well there has to be a consequence, if that means Rangers or Hearts go down to third division then so be it.

They cannot and should not be allowed any favours.

Sky Sports news on the day the Rangers news broke....on the ticker at the bottom......Rangers go into administration........Rangers bring in Daniel Cusin....you really couldn't make this **** up!

Hearts..bring in Craig Beattie!! WTF is going on, is nobody learning any lessons here? Punishments need meated out and no just a mere 10 points either. RANT OVER!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The Dons fans have taken a compassionate view on things as you'd expect :greengrin
Should never turn down revenue generating opportunities I suppose.

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092 (http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092)

[Onion]

I hope they go into liquidation, I hope Hearts do too.

Why?

Because they seem to think they can spend money they haven't got without any consequence. Well there has to be a consequence, if that means Rangers or Hearts go down to third division then so be it.

They cannot and should not be allowed any favours.

Sky Sports news on the day the Rangers news broke....on the ticker at the bottom......Rangers go into administration........Rangers bring in Daniel Cusin....you really couldn't make this **** up!

Hearts..bring in Craig Beattie!! WTF is going on, is nobody learning any lessons here? Punishments need meated out and no just a mere 10 points either. RANT OVER!

With the Huns on the way out, Vlad might see this as an opportunity to spend money he doesn't have as 2nd place and CL footie will be assured for anyone with a bit of drive/ambition. Don't expect Petrie and the Hibs Board to spot any opportunities from the Huns demise - just a loss of revenue:rolleyes:

[lucky]

With the Huns on the way out, Vlad might see this as an opportunity to spend money he doesn't have as 2nd place and CL footie will be assured for anyone with a bit of drive/ambition. Don't expect Petrie and the Hibs Board to spot any opportunities from the Huns demise - just a loss of revenue:rolleyes:

I really hope your wrong but it would not surprise me if Vlad started wasting more money on the inbreeds, that's assuming he has got it.

[SteveHFC]

The Dons fans have taken a compassionate view on things as you'd expect :greengrin
Should never turn down revenue generating opportunities I suppose.

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092 (http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=4&fid=27&act=1&mid=2115223092)

This should be a party held at every ground in Scotland :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

You don't need to be a lender to get a security, liquidation was always a likely outcome so I would be surprised if the deal was done without some sort of back-up. There would be no necessity to record the security and Ticketus might be playing their cards close to see how things pan out.:aok:

I was under the impression that all securities and charges needed to be recorded at Companies House.

Like I say, the back-up is the insurance and, if it exists, the CW underwriting.

[southern hibby]

yet this 'honourable' action will not be extended to dundee utd ? indeed , they want to boycott tannadice, honourable ?? pppfffffffftt

Not sure why they are taking this stance with Dundee utd. However kids have to learn to walk before they can run. For the record I can't stand them, with their we are the people shi**y attitude but if some fans did turn up then I do feel it's an honourable gesture. Still hope their team dies though. GGTTH

[Hibernia&Alba]

I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

[SteveHFC]

I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

That could be a great weekend. Rangers going into liquidation and the Hibees beating Hearts in the Derby :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

I heard Jim Traynor tonight say something about March 16th being the end game for them. What's this then?

That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

[Hibernia&Alba]

That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?

[Billy Whizz]

Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?

Peter Lawell may put in a bid to merge Celtic and Rangers.
Where have we heard this sort of thing before

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh ok, and what if that doesn't happen?


I suspect it's a tool to try and push people to make offers. Personally, I think it would be daft for anyone to make an offer before the result of the Big Tax Case is in.

If there are no offers, the next move would be to try and get the creditors to agree on a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement, which basically is an agreement that those who are owed money get x pence in the £. They need 75% of creditors (in value) to agree to that. HMRC are one of the biggest creditors, and it's their policy not to agree to CVA's. (despite what Traynor was saying on the radio this afternoon).

They will keep at that process until there's clearly no hope of it happening. By then, the BTC result will probably be known. If it's favourable to RFC, the admins will re-start the sale process. If it's not, it's goodnight.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I suspect it's a tool to try and push people to make offers. Personally, I think it would be daft for anyone to make an offer before the result of the Big Tax Case is in.

If there are no offers, the next move would be to try and get the creditors to agree on a Creditors' Voluntary Arrangement, which basically is an agreement that those who are owed money get x pence in the £. They need 75% of creditors (in value) to agree to that. HMRC are one of the biggest creditors, and it's their policy not to agree to CVA's. (despite what Traynor was saying on the radio this afternoon).

They will keep at that process until there's clearly no hope of it happening. By then, the BTC result will probably be known. If it's favourable to RFC, the admins will re-start the sale process. If it's not, it's goodnight.

Thanks for the insight, CWG. You've been a big help to those of us who know little or nothing about administration/insolvency/financial shennanigans.

In relation to the CVA, are HMRC only one of the biggest creditors if Rangers lose the big tax case of circa £49 million, or whatever the amount is? If Rangers win that case, isn't Craig Whyte the biggest creditor due to the whole one pound he put in? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for the insight, CWG. You've been a big help to those of us who know little or nothing about administration/insolvency/financial shennanigans.

In relation to the CVA, are HMRC only one of the biggest creditors if Rangers lose the big tax case of circa £49 million, or whatever the amount is? If Rangers win that case, isn't Craig Whyte the biggest creditor due to the whole one pound he put in? :greengrin

Cheers.. just remember I'm only one page ahead of you in the book :wink:

HMRC are already due £15m, just for the period since CW took over, for unpaid PAYE and VAT. That stands, irrespective of the BTC. If RFC win that, the £15m is still due.

The reason I say "one of the biggest creditors" is because I am not sure how Ticketus stand in the administration. Some on here reckon they are due the full £24m, but I think they are only due what is currently payable, about £6m. My view is that the full £24m only comes into play in the event of liquidation.... but I am really not sure about that.

As for Craigy.....if everyone was to get paid in full, he would be at the tail end of the queue, and would get a nice shiny pound. :cb

[StevieC]

That's the deadline that has been set by the admins for offers to buy the club.

Do you reckon that deadline is to give them 2 weeks to get a CVA sorted and get them out of administration in time for Eurpopean deadline, or have they resigned themselves to missing out on Europe next season?

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you reckon that deadline is to give them 2 weeks to get a CVA sorted and get them out of administration in time for Eurpopean deadline, or have they resigned themselves to missing out on Europe next season?

I reckon all the smart minds have written off Europe.

Isn't the 31 March deadline about the accounts, though? If they're not with the SFA by then, then Europe is a no-go.

In any event, I can't see a CVA being sorted out in two weeks. HMRC will block it, and then block it again...etc etc.

[PatHead]

According to the radio they almost got a sell out today. The full house signs didn't last long then. So much for the fans getting behind the club. Sooner they die the better.

[SteveHFC]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/mccoistbf.gif

Courtesy of Desperate Dan :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

Cheers.. just remember I'm only one page ahead of you in the book :wink:

HMRC are already due £15m, just for the period since CW took over, for unpaid PAYE and VAT. That stands, irrespective of the BTC. If RFC win that, the £15m is still due.

The reason I say "one of the biggest creditors" is because I am not sure how Ticketus stand in the administration. Some on here reckon they are due the full £24m, but I think they are only due what is currently payable, about £6m. My view is that the full £24m only comes into play in the event of liquidation.... but I am really not sure about that.

As for Craigy.....if everyone was to get paid in full, he would be at the tail end of the queue, and would get a nice shiny pound. :cb

Aye of course, the unpaid PAYE and NI since Whyte took over. Now if they require the agreement of 75% of creditors (notwithstanding the BTC) for a CVA, and assuming HMRC won't agree to one, that means they need approx £40 - £60 million (depending on the amount of unpaid tax post-Whyte) of other creditors to possibly get their CVA. This is impossible. So, they plough on until the BTC judgment, and either stay in administration until they win it, or liquidate if they lose it. Is that right?

[CropleyWasGod]

According to the radio they almost got a sell out today. The full house signs didn't last long then. So much for the fans getting behind the club. Sooner they die the better.

Today was always going to be the beginning of the end, IMO. Their last home game (and big pay day)for a few weeks.

If all had gone to plan, and the redundancies had been decided this week, today would have been the chance for the fans to say cheerio to the sacked players.

The next home game is against Celtic, who might be able to win the League that day. It will either be one last show of defiance from the Bears, or else there will be no one there except the Tims!!