Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[BIGK]

Some good reading there :agree: Although I did click on a link which took me to Ibrox Noise (I know), where I came across this......

Anonymous5 August 2015 at 15:17 (http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/08/report-rotherham-bid-for-scott-allan.html?showComment=1438784249664#c180343880365 994599)
Gers will get Allan in January cos by then we will b that many points ahead of hibs n the only way of getting up will b playoffs n they'll need too fink if we don't get up thro playoffs we cud do with Savin money looking mayb to another pos season out the prem league they will sell for bout £100,000 n save on wages for the next 6 months n bonuses etc prob gain bout £150,000 better than a kick in the bawz. Coz make no mistake if they play 6 playoffs games in 2 n a hat wks like us it's a very hard n demanding exhausting task cos it's like 6 cup finals n they'll kno that another year in champship they'll need aw the money they can get n season ticket sales won't b same wivout the famous Glasgow gers n hearts their .

Can anyone translate??:faf:


At least he managed a full stop at the end. And that no!

[Hibernia&Alba]

"For every fiver Rotherham United spend we'll spend only slightly less". Dave King

[Bostonhibby]

"For every fiver Rotherham United spend we'll spend only slightly less". Dave King
If Rotherham United over invest we will over over invest. It's what the peepul want to hear.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Some good reading there :agree: Although I did click on a link which took me to Ibrox Noise (I know), where I came across this......

Anonymous5 August 2015 at 15:17 (http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/08/report-rotherham-bid-for-scott-allan.html?showComment=1438784249664#c180343880365 994599)
Gers will get Allan in January cos by then we will b that many points ahead of hibs n the only way of getting up will b playoffs n they'll need too fink if we don't get up thro playoffs we cud do with Savin money looking mayb to another pos season out the prem league they will sell for bout £100,000 n save on wages for the next 6 months n bonuses etc prob gain bout £150,000 better than a kick in the bawz. Coz make no mistake if they play 6 playoffs games in 2 n a hat wks like us it's a very hard n demanding exhausting task cos it's like 6 cup finals n they'll kno that another year in champship they'll need aw the money they can get n season ticket sales won't b same wivout the famous Glasgow gers n hearts their .

Can anyone translate??:faf:

I honestly think I learned how to use full stops in primary 1, possibly primary 2 at a push.

[southern hibby]

"For every fiver Rotherham United spend we'll spend only slightly less". Dave King
By £4:50 (ish), dependant on season ticket sales.

GGTTH

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I honestly think I learned how to use full stops in primary 1, possibly primary 2 at a push.

Da Newbies played 6 gamez coz day finnished fird innit?

[greenlex]

Some good reading there :agree: Although I did click on a link which took me to Ibrox Noise (I know), where I came across this......

Anonymous5 August 2015 at 15:17 (http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2015/08/report-rotherham-bid-for-scott-allan.html?showComment=1438784249664#c180343880365 994599)
Gers will get Allan in January cos by then we will b that many points ahead of hibs n the only way of getting up will b playoffs n they'll need too fink if we don't get up thro playoffs we cud do with Savin money looking mayb to another pos season out the prem league they will sell for bout £100,000 n save on wages for the next 6 months n bonuses etc prob gain bout £150,000 better than a kick in the bawz. Coz make no mistake if they play 6 playoffs games in 2 n a hat wks like us it's a very hard n demanding exhausting task cos it's like 6 cup finals n they'll kno that another year in champship they'll need aw the money they can get n season ticket sales won't b same wivout the famous Glasgow gers n hearts their .

Can anyone translate??:faf: I've just read that in Little Britains Viki Pollards voice. I think I've just pished myself.

[Bostonhibby]

I've just read that in Little Britains Viki Pollards voice. I think I've just pished myself.

:greengrin Jeez, if they are that fond of all things English you'd think they would have tried to learn the language.

[Leithenhibby]

:greengrin Jeez, if they are that fond of all things English you'd think they would have tried to learn the language.

:greengrin

[greenginger]

Another PhilMac. piece on the Sevco train crash.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/front-loaded-kool-aid/


I know its Phil with all his baggage etc. but the sums are simple.


Rangers will be out of cash by November unless they get a very successful share issue or King ponies up big time.

Just don't expect to read it in any newspaper or hear it on TV or radio. Its the Motherwell born billionaire story all over again.

[JeMeSouviens]

Another PhilMac. piece on the Sevco train crash.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/front-loaded-kool-aid/


I know its Phil with all his baggage etc. but the sums are simple.


Rangers will be out of cash by November unless they get a very successful share issue or King ponies up big time.

Just don't expect to read it in any newspaper or hear it on TV or radio. Its the Motherwell born billionaire story all over again.

I think the plan has always been another share issue. Diminishing returns would reckon they're up against it there and even if they do pull in a hefty wedge, how much of it will have to go to pay off Ashley? If they are skooshing the league in front of big crowds and Ashley goes easy on them they might just raise enough to survive without another insolvency.

Sadly, as usual, we have given them a helping hand by lying down to a hiding. Bet that shifted several thousand New Hun STs. :rolleyes:

[ancient hibee]

I'm sure that if they launch another share issue the debarred shareholders will go to court over it.In any case who would be brave enough to underwrite it.

[Keith_M]

I'm sure that if they launch another share issue the debarred shareholders will go to court over it.In any case who would be brave enough to underwrite it.


Dave King, surely?



#wheresdavekingsmillions

[Ozyhibby]

I think the plan has always been another share issue. Diminishing returns would reckon they're up against it there and even if they do pull in a hefty wedge, how much of it will have to go to pay off Ashley? If they are skooshing the league in front of big crowds and Ashley goes easy on them they might just raise enough to survive without another insolvency.

Sadly, as usual, we have given them a helping hand by lying down to a hiding. Bet that shifted several thousand New Hun STs. :rolleyes:

They don't have the votes on the board for another share issue.

[brog]

The DR today has a front page pic & 2 page spread of a key witness to Chuckie Green fraud investigation being in Glasgow. Looks like the case is still proceeding apace. It started me musing as to just how the powers that be behind the scenes at greyskull actually went about supporting & choosing their last 3 owners/COE's.

Craig Whyte - sounds good, ok he's been barred from being a company director for 7 years but that's just a technical matter. he's got off the radar wealth, he lives in a castle & he looks like another cheekie chappie, him & Coisty, the dream team, that'll do for me.
Chuckie Green - really disappointed that he's never been barred from being a company director but the positive news is he was strongly suspected of asset stripping at Sheffield Utd & turned a small loss into a massive one! he's owned about 40 companies & about 80% of those have been dissolved, let's take a chance on him! And, we can call him big man!
Dave King Ah, now we're talking!! A convicted criminal, and on 41 counts! at last we're hitting the big time! Not only that but he was originally indicted on 322 counts of criminal activity for everything from racketeering & money-laundering to dandruff! Brilliant, he'll have no problem passing the fit & proper test, he's the man to take Sevco forward!
Kim Jong-Un, :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

The DR today has a front page pic & 2 page spread of a key witness to Chuckie Green fraud investigation being in Glasgow. Looks like the case is still proceeding apace. It started me musing as to just how the powers that be behind the scenes at greyskull actually went about supporting & choosing their last 3 owners/COE's.

Craig Whyte - sounds good, ok he's been barred from being a company director for 7 years but that's just a technical matter. he's got off the radar wealth, he lives in a castle & he looks like another cheekie chappie, him & Coisty, the dream team, that'll do for me.
Chuckie Green - really disappointed that he's never been barred from being a company director but the positive news is he was strongly suspected of asset stripping at Sheffield Utd & turned a small loss into a massive one! he's owned about 40 companies & about 80% of those have been dissolved, let's take a chance on him! And, we can call him big man!
Dave King Ah, now we're talking!! A convicted criminal, and on 41 counts! at last we're hitting the big time! Not only that but he was originally indicted on 322 counts of criminal activity for everything from racketeering & money-laundering to dandruff! Brilliant, he'll have no problem passing the fit & proper test, he's the man to take Sevco forward!
Kim Jong-Un, :greengrin

Very good analysis but cannae see wee Kim passing the fat and protestant person test. the latter part anyway as he is apparently a deity in his own right. The only option might be for all the huns to apply for North Korean Citizenship and then undertake a religious conversion, We can but hope.

[Geo_1875]

Very good analysis but cannae see wee Kim passing the fat and protestant person test. the latter part anyway as he is apparently a deity in his own right. The only option might be for all the huns to apply for North Korean Citizenship and then undertake a religious conversion, We can but hope.

But at least he's not RC.

[JeMeSouviens]

They don't have the votes on the board for another share issue.

If it comes down to dilution or bust though?

[greenginger]

The DR today has a front page pic & 2 page spread of a key witness to Chuckie Green fraud investigation being in Glasgow. Looks like the case is still proceeding apace. It started me musing as to just how the powers that be behind the scenes at greyskull actually went about supporting & choosing their last 3 owners/COE's.

Craig Whyte - sounds good, ok he's been barred from being a company director for 7 years but that's just a technical matter. he's got off the radar wealth, he lives in a castle & he looks like another cheekie chappie, him & Coisty, the dream team, that'll do for me.
Chuckie Green - really disappointed that he's never been barred from being a company director but the positive news is he was strongly suspected of asset stripping at Sheffield Utd & turned a small loss into a massive one! he's owned about 40 companies & about 80% of those have been dissolved, let's take a chance on him! And, we can call him big man!
Dave King Ah, now we're talking!! A convicted criminal, and on 41 counts! at last we're hitting the big time! Not only that but he was originally indicted on 322 counts of criminal activity for everything from racketeering & money-laundering to dandruff! Brilliant, he'll have no problem passing the fit & proper test, he's the man to take Sevco forward!
Kim Jong-Un, :greengrin


What's the chances of rangers and the real rangers men pushing this investigation along in the hope of proving Ashley's deal with Rangers Retail and any other onerous contracts were corrupt and should be set aside to let the real crooks benefit.

[Bostonhibby]

But at least he's not RC.

Shouldn't be a problem then as they wont have to change their signature tune, being "up to their knees" in North Korean deity's blood doesn't exactly trip off the tongue. :wink:

[Keith_M]

The DR today has a front page pic & 2 page spread of a key witness to Chuckie Green fraud investigation being in Glasgow. Looks like the case is still proceeding apace. It started me musing as to just how the powers that be behind the scenes at greyskull actually went about supporting & choosing their last 3 owners/COE's.

Craig Whyte - sounds good, ok he's been barred from being a company director for 7 years but that's just a technical matter. he's got off the radar wealth, he lives in a castle & he looks like another cheekie chappie, him & Coisty, the dream team, that'll do for me.
Chuckie Green - really disappointed that he's never been barred from being a company director but the positive news is he was strongly suspected of asset stripping at Sheffield Utd & turned a small loss into a massive one! he's owned about 40 companies & about 80% of those have been dissolved, let's take a chance on him! And, we can call him big man!
Dave King Ah, now we're talking!! A convicted criminal, and on 41 counts! at last we're hitting the big time! Not only that but he was originally indicted on 322 counts of criminal activity for everything from racketeering & money-laundering to dandruff! Brilliant, he'll have no problem passing the fit & proper test, he's the man to take Sevco forward!
Kim Jong-Un, :greengrin


You forgot about The Krays

15243

[AndyM_1875]

Another PhilMac. piece on the Sevco train crash.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/front-loaded-kool-aid/


I know its Phil with all his baggage etc. but the sums are simple.


Rangers will be out of cash by November unless they get a very successful share issue or King ponies up big time.

Just don't expect to read it in any newspaper or hear it on TV or radio. Its the Motherwell born billionaire story all over again.

Goes without saying that Phil is a twat but Rangers certainly should have been counting the bawbees.
Their squad this year is better than last seasons but it's also cheaper. So if they are running out of cash again then they'll require either of the things you suggest or
further loans from directors who we would assume are not taking money out the club unlike in the Charlie Green days.

Perhaps the cutbacks that were rumoured after June have not actually happened but that doesn't surprise me.
There's a mentality at Rangers both at Director and at Fan level and that just does not "get it" that when you have limited funds you cut your cloth accordingly.
When other clubs are relegated or they see money tighten, players are moved on or released and squads are cut in size. At lower levels clubs even go Part Time or have a greater mix of Part Time players. Any new contracts to players should be more modest and we all remember the East mains bloodbath that was Butcher's last act after relegation.
But at Rangers, none of those things happen. They still fritter money away so for that reason to my mind they are without doubt the world's stupidest football club

[Keith_M]

But Dave King has promised to invest £50 million, I mean £40 million, ehm, or was it £10 million.



In all seriousness, can you imagine the team that we could afford if we had just banked the money from circa 25k Season Tickets?

[steakbake]

Goes without saying that Phil is a twat but Rangers certainly should have been counting the bawbees.
Their squad this year is better than last seasons but it's also cheaper. So if they are running out of cash again then they'll require either of the things you suggest or
further loans from directors who we would assume are not taking money out the club unlike in the Charlie Green days.

Perhaps the cutbacks that were rumoured after June have not actually happened but that doesn't surprise me.
There's a mentality at Rangers both at Director and at Fan level and that just does not "get it" that when you have limited funds you cut your cloth accordingly.
When other clubs are relegated or they see money tighten, players are moved on or released and squads are cut in size. At lower levels clubs even go Part Time or have a greater mix of Part Time players. Any new contracts to players should be more modest and we all remember the East mains bloodbath that was Butcher's last act after relegation.
But at Rangers, none of those things happen. They still fritter money away so for that reason to my mind they are without doubt the world's stupidest football club

Hoisted by their own hubris and they genuinely believe their own hype. Any time you read of them talking about the "history" of their club, or getting back to "where they belong", it seems like they've not learned a single thing.

If they go bust, it will be nothing short of what they deserve.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hoisted by their own hubris and they genuinely believe their own hype. Any time you read of them talking about the "history" of their club, or getting back to "where they belong", it seems like they've not learned a single thing.

If they go bust, it will be nothing short of what they deserve.

Any fans who refer to themselves as "the people" (I'm unsure what they think the rest of us are) can't have much humility, so it's unsurprising their arrogance is undiminished. They're too stupid to reflect on things.

[high bee]

Any fans who refer to themselves as "the people" (I'm unsure what they think the rest of us are) can't have much humility, so it's unsurprising their arrogance is undiminished. They're too stupid to reflect on things.

The ones I know certainly are, they haven't learned a thing. As far as they are concerned it is the SPL/SFA and HMRCs fault they are bust and apparently they are victims of a witch hunt.

Plus they think everyone that voted for Sevco to start in Div 3 did it out of spite/fear, not for fair competition. When I point out that it wouldn't have even gone to a vote of it was anyone else because it was the only right outcome but a lack of balls prevented the decision from being made automatically, they get very angry. Seems the truth hurts especially when you're in denial.

My favourite moment was when they thought they were world beaters after beating us in the playoff and saying how ironic it was that they would be sending Motherwell down when they voted to send Sevco down a few years previous, that went well!

[ano hibby]

On a serious note is there a link available to an article where DK promised to invest £xm..? Or has it all been supposition?
May well be miles earlier in thread but one does forget!

[PatHead]

Was listening to John Beattie show on Radio Scotland yesterday lunchtime. They were discussing the bans on certain press from Ibrox.

Graham Spiers was seemingly banned for criticising the new board - in particular The Glib and Shameless liar over the past few years.

The more worrying one was Chris McLaughlan though. He was banned for reporting on the Referees report including the sectarian singing. Obviously they don't like the truth being out there as it is bad publicity.

BBC are therefore refusing to send reporters according to the reporters on the show yesterday. Have to ask why they are commentating on the game tonight then?

[Keith_M]

On a serious note is there a link available to an article where DK promised to invest £xm..? Or has it all been supposition?
May well be miles earlier in thread but one does forget!

March 2014: At least £30 million
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588429/Dave-King-commit-30m-ensure-Rangers-return-Scottish-Premiership.html)
May 2015: £10 Million (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1321047-rangers-chairman-dave-king-to-put-money-into-club-very-quickly/)

[brog]

You forgot about The Krays

15243


You're correct! So many crooks, so little time! Actually I guess big Sandy trumps the others in that he actually did time! What a collection of shysters!

[greenginger]

March 2014: At least £30 million
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588429/Dave-King-commit-30m-ensure-Rangers-return-Scottish-Premiership.html)
May 2015: £10 Million (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1321047-rangers-chairman-dave-king-to-put-money-into-club-very-quickly/)


I think Mr King will be wary of under-writing a share issue if David Murray's efforts to grab the orange pound are anything to go by.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2392840/Rangers-raise-51m-through-share-scheme.html


£ 51,430,995.00 raised , £ 50,275,000.00 from his own company Murray International, which led to B.of S. taking a stake in the company before the Bank needed bailing out by us, the taxpayer.

[Eyrie]

March 2014: At least £30 million
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588429/Dave-King-commit-30m-ensure-Rangers-return-Scottish-Premiership.html)
May 2015: £10 Million (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1321047-rangers-chairman-dave-king-to-put-money-into-club-very-quickly/)

August 2015 - penniless.

There are some things in life that money can buy. For everything else, there's a glib and shameless lie.

[jacomo]

I think Mr King will be wary of under-writing a share issue if David Murray's efforts to grab the orange pound are anything to go by.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2392840/Rangers-raise-51m-through-share-scheme.html


£ 51,430,995.00 raised , £ 50,275,000.00 from his own company Murray International, which led to B.of S. taking a stake in the company before the Bank needed bailing out by us, the taxpayer.

:agree:

A share issue will surely need to be under written by King, and that would mean coming good on his over investment promise.

How likely is that?

[ano hibby]

March 2014: At least £30 million
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2588429/Dave-King-commit-30m-ensure-Rangers-return-Scottish-Premiership.html)
May 2015: £10 Million (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1321047-rangers-chairman-dave-king-to-put-money-into-club-very-quickly/)

Thanks.

[StevieC]

BBC are therefore refusing to send reporters according to the reporters on the show yesterday. Have to ask why they are commentating on the game tonight then?

What they said yesterday was they had found a dodgy internet stream and were going to do the commentary from that.

There was an interview with Ian Murray about 20mins before kick off as well though, but I'm assuming they just gave him a quick call on his mobile.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:

A share issue will surely need to be under written by King, and that would mean coming good on his over investment promise.

How likely is that?

Almost impossible as things stand. They need permission from the other shareholders and they don't have the percentage of votes they need to get it passed. They almost certainly would have had a share issue by now if they could have.

[greenginger]

Who in their right mind would buy in anyway.

Green's issue was taken up by people who wanted to grab power, some blue-nose fund managers who thought they'd have a punt on the new clumpany with other people's money and have all but lost it, and the small share holder supporters .

The small share holders may buy a few more but it will be peanuts , the fund managers won't dare touch them, and will anyone put in millions to win control of the mess assembled by spivs & Co ?

[jacomo]

Who in their right mind would buy in anyway.

Green's issue was taken up by people who wanted to grab power, some blue-nose fund managers who thought they'd have a punt on the new clumpany with other people's money and have all but lost it, and the small share holder supporters .

The small share holders may buy a few more but it will be peanuts , the fund managers won't dare touch them, and will anyone put in millions to win control of the mess assembled by spivs & Co ?

Green also hoovered up a number of pro investors (like that self-proclaimed City 'whizz kid') who have taken a bath on their investments. Can't imagine them falling for it again.

[greenginger]

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/rsl-statement-on-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-2285


The John James@sitonfence character is banging on about evidence that Chuckie Green had actually sold the Big Hoose before taking leave of Sevco.

Seems in the 6 month accounts produced to December 2014 there is a £ 0.7 million charge (£1.4 million for the year ) for a sale and lease back of a Sevco asset ,and in his opinion can only be Ibrox .

[CropleyWasGod]

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/rsl-statement-on-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-2285


The John James@sitonfence character is banging on about evidence that Chuckie Green had actually sold the Big Hoose before taking leave of Sevco.

Seems in the 6 month accounts produced to December 2014 there is a £ 0.7 million charge (£1.4 million for the year ) for a sale and lease back of a Sevco asset ,and in his opinion can only be Ibrox .

Easily checkable through public records. I'm sure JJ would know that.

I haven't seen the accounts themselves, but would have thought that the sale of a major asset would be disclosed.

[greenginger]

Easily checkable through public records. I'm sure JJ would know that.

I haven't seen the accounts themselves, but would have thought that the sale of a major asset would be disclosed.


The interim accounts are not published on Companies House website, the AIM website is gone with their de-listing, not sure if they are still on Rangers Official site ( don't really want to dirty myself by going on there :greengrin )

I don't think there is any obligation for a purchaser to register a title to a property at Registers of Scotland.

I think it will/should be disclosed when their year accounts eventually appear, if not , will anybody ask what the the leasing sum is for ?

[GreenLake]

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/rsl-statement-on-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-2285


The John James@sitonfence character is banging on about evidence that Chuckie Green had actually sold the Big Hoose before taking leave of Sevco.

Seems in the 6 month accounts produced to December 2014 there is a £ 0.7 million charge (£1.4 million for the year ) for a sale and lease back of a Sevco asset ,and in his opinion can only be Ibrox .

I think Tom Farmer should put an offer in for Ibrox. Say £1.75m as an opener then raise it to £2.25m. They would have a very quick fit.

[Bostonhibby]

I think Tom Farmer should put an offer in for Ibrox. Say £1.75m as an opener then raise it to £2.25m. They would have a very quick fit.
Great idea, he could then lease it to sports direct and Ashley would control every scrap of assets they have without actually owning the toxic loss making bit[emoji1]

[Keith_M]

I think Tom Farmer should put an offer in for Ibrox. Say £1.75m as an opener then raise it to £2.25m. They would have a very quick fit.


They'd probably sell, just to keep the club running for another couple of weeks.

[CropleyWasGod]

The interim accounts are not published on Companies House website, the AIM website is gone with their de-listing, not sure if they are still on Rangers Official site ( don't really want to dirty myself by going on there :greengrin )

I don't think there is any obligation for a purchaser to register a title to a property at Registers of Scotland.

I think it will/should be disclosed when their year accounts eventually appear, if not , will anybody ask what the the leasing sum is for ?

Doesn't the sale need to be, though?

[greenginger]

I've had a look at the Scottish Assessors Association web site. They list details of all properties and business rates and Council Tax bands.

Interestingly, the proprietor of Murray Park is noted as, The Rangers Football Club Ltd, 150 Edmiston drive, whereas the proprietor of Ibrox Stadium is noted as, Rangers Football Club Ltd, per Les Ewan Associates, 21 Oronsay Crescent, Glasgow.


http://www.saa.gov.uk/search.php?SEARCHED=1&SEARCH_TABLE=valuation_roll&SEARCH_TERM=150+edmiston+drive&x=10&y=9#results

Might mean nothing, maybe different ownerships !

Anyone heard of Les Ewan before in the Sevco saga ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I've had a look at the Scottish Assessors Association web site. They list details of all properties and business rates and Council Tax bands.

Interestingly, the proprietor of Murray Park is noted as, The Rangers Football Club Ltd, 150 Edmiston drive, whereas the proprietor of Ibrox Stadium is noted as, Rangers Football Club Ltd, per Les Ewan Associates, 21 Oronsay Crescent, Glasgow.


http://www.saa.gov.uk/search.php?SEARCHED=1&SEARCH_TABLE=valuation_roll&SEARCH_TERM=150+edmiston+drive&x=10&y=9#results

Might mean nothing, maybe different ownerships !

Anyone heard of Les Ewan before in the Sevco saga ?

He's a property consultant, wtf that might mean :greengrin

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/leslie-ewan/b5/886/280

[high bee]

He's a property consultant, wtf that might mean :greengrin

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/leslie-ewan/b5/886/280

Check out the picture, it's Rod Petrie that owns Ibrox.

[CropleyWasGod]

Check out the picture, it's Rod Petrie that owns Ibrox.

Yep. One of his skills is "contract negotiation".

Busted.

[Keith_M]

Interestingly, the proprietor of Murray Park is noted as, The Rangers Football Club Ltd, 150 Edmiston drive, whereas the proprietor of Ibrox Stadium is noted as, Rangers Football Club Ltd, per Les Ewan Associates, 21 Oronsay Crescent, Glasgow.



Pardon my ignorance but are they not the Rangers Clumpany that went into Administration in 2012 and are currently being Liquidated by BDO?

How can a now defunct Company own Ibrox?

[CropleyWasGod]

Pardon my ignorance but are they not the Rangers Clumpany that went into Administration in 2012 and are currently being Liquidated by BDO?

How can a now defunct Company own Ibrox?

There was a change of names at one stage, and the names were effectively switched.

The company that owns the football club is The Rangers Football Club Limited.

[Ozyhibby]

I've yet to see any convincing evidence that ibrox is not owned by the new club.
I can believe that there are lots of contracts that the club have to honour that send a lot of money out the club but I've never seen any evidence that ibrox is not still the property of the club.

[Keith_M]

There was a change of names at one stage, and the names were effectively switched.

The company that owns the football club is The Rangers Football Club Limited.


The name I highlighted in bold didn't start with 'The', hence my confusion.

I'm presuming the 'The' was just left out by accident*, though, and the Stadium is not really owned by the now defunct 'Rangers Football Club Ltd'.




* I hope you can follow that ;)

[greenginger]

Pardon my ignorance but are they not the Rangers Clumpany that went into Administration in 2012 and are currently being Liquidated by BDO?

How can a now defunct Company own Ibrox?

The original Rangers changed its name to RFC 2012 PLC to save the ignominy of the Rangers Football Club being liquidated.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

A bit like Peter Sutcliffe changing his name to Jimmy Smith and then claiming he's not a murderer.

[grunt]

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/rsl-statement-on-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-2285


The John James@sitonfence character is banging on about evidence that Chuckie Green had actually sold the Big Hoose before taking leave of Sevco.

Seems in the 6 month accounts produced to December 2014 there is a £ 0.7 million charge (£1.4 million for the year ) for a sale and lease back of a Sevco asset ,and in his opinion can only be Ibrox .It seems that this JJ is not a finance expert like what we have here (sit down CWG). The RIFC accounts show finance leases and clearly state they are for refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets (note 18). JJ has just significantly dented his credibility, I fear.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/staticcontent/documents/164581RangersAnnualReport.pdf

[greenginger]

Phil now saying Sevco going back to the stock exchange well for another £ 20 million.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-stockmarket-re-float-20m-the-target/

[Twiglet]

Phil now saying Sevco going back to the stock exchange well for another £ 20 million.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-stockmarket-re-float-20m-the-target/

Going by what Phil says about the requirement of having money y to run the company for 18 months surely they fall short at the first hurdle.

[ballengeich]

Phil now saying Sevco going back to the stock exchange well for another £ 20 million.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-stockmarket-re-float-20m-the-target/

I don't think Phil wrote that. For one thing there are paragraphs containing more than one sentence.
Edit - he didn't. There's a credit to Tom Winnifrith who seems to be a financial blogger.

Regardless of where it's been lifted from I can't see institutions being interested. I could understand, just, why a few fund managers working in high risk areas thought Green's IPO was worth a punt, but the prospect of any return through dividends now looks remote.

[JeMeSouviens]

I don't think Phil wrote that. For one thing there are paragraphs containing more than one sentence.
Edit - he didn't. There's a credit to Tom Winnifrith who seems to be a financial blogger.

Regardless of where it's been lifted from I can't see institutions being interested. I could understand, just, why a few fund managers working in high risk areas thought Green's IPO was worth a punt, but the prospect of any return through dividends now looks remote.



http://www.shareprophets.com/views/14274/rangers-international-football-club-stockmarket-re-float-up-to-20-million-to-be-raised

[ballengeich]

http://www.shareprophets.com/views/14274/rangers-international-football-club-stockmarket-re-float-up-to-20-million-to-be-raised

Thanks.

[GreenLake]

Phil now saying Sevco going back to the stock exchange well for another £ 20 million.


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rifc-stockmarket-re-float-20m-the-target/


It's on the same day as the rights issue from Marconi plc.

[brog]

I didn't want to perpetuate another Scott A thread so thought I would post this here. There's a snippet buried away in today's DR which says SA is close friends with Graeme Park, the newly appointed hereditary peer, I mean director, at Sevco. It also says SA was GP's guest at champions League final & Sevco are gobsmacked at his betrayal!. Looks like the tapping up may have started a while back!

[JimBHibees]

I didn't want to perpetuate another Scott A thread so thought I would post this here. There's a snippet buried away in today's DR which says SA is close friends with Graeme Park, the newly appointed hereditary peer, I mean director, at Sevco. It also says SA was GP's guest at champions League final & Sevco are gobsmacked at his betrayal!. Looks like the tapping up may have started a while back!

Maybe taking Scott to a Champions league game might not have been the best way of getting him to sign for Rangers. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

I didn't want to perpetuate another Scott A thread so thought I would post this here. There's a snippet buried away in today's DR which says SA is close friends with Graeme Park, the newly appointed hereditary peer, I mean director, at Sevco. It also says SA was GP's guest at champions League final & Sevco are gobsmacked at his betrayal!. Looks like the tapping up may have started a while back!

Don't doubt it, It worked out well for them though eh. :greengrin

Jeez the rangers can't even do tapping up properly now - would never have happened if it'd been the now defunct glasgow rangers.

[greenginger]

I didn't want to perpetuate another Scott A thread so thought I would post this here. There's a snippet buried away in today's DR which says SA is close friends with Graeme Park, the newly appointed hereditary peer, I mean director, at Sevco. It also says SA was GP's guest at champions League final & Sevco are gobsmacked at his betrayal!. Looks like the tapping up may have started a while back!


Does he say what year the invitation was made ?

[Mr White]

Maybe taking Scott to a Champions league game might not have been the best way of getting him to sign for Rangers. :greengrin

:tee hee: aye just putting ideas in his head.

[Onion]

Maybe taking Scott to a Champions league game might not have been the best way of getting him to sign for Rangers. :greengrin

Was there a gentleman's agreement by any chance 😄

[brog]

Maybe taking Scott to a Champions league game might not have been the best way of getting him to sign for Rangers. :greengrin

:greengrin Mind you, TBF, I think Sevco have as much chance as Celtc of making the CL Final! Funny as !!!! though!

[Spike Mandela]

Chris McLaughlin (@BBCchrismclaug)
31/08/2015 20:02
Former #Rangers CEO Charles Green to be interviewed by Police Scotland tomorrow. Likely he'll face charges relating to his time at club

[hibees 7062]

The tramps have had a 150k bid for Ali Crawford rejected

[Ronniekirk]

The tramps have had a 150k bid for Ali Crawford rejected

Another derisory offer .Are they offering to pay this up in instalments as well .
No doubt it will get upped to £175,000 after Hamilton reject it

[Aldo]

The tramps have had a 150k bid for Ali Crawford rejected

They have no class whatsoever!

[Jack]

Another derisory offer .Are they offering to pay this up in instalments as well .
No doubt it will get upped to £175,000 after Hamilton reject it

They are collecting Barrs Irn Bru bottles as we speak and are hoping to put in an improved offer before the deadline ... 31st December when the 30p deposit on Barrs bottles ends.

[Billy Whizz]

The tramps have had a 150k bid for Ali Crawford rejected

The lad that Hearts let go as a teenager

[PatHead]

Hamilton are obviously bigots not letting this lad join his heroes.

[Eyrie]

Chris McLaughlin (@BBCchrismclaug)
31/08/2015 20:02
Former #Rangers CEO Charles Green to be interviewed by Police Scotland tomorrow. Likely he'll face charges relating to his time at club

Not a lot of detail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34109840) so far.

[steakbake]

Not a lot of detail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34109840) so far.

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/

Nothing but conjecture so far, and we should be cautious about Keith "Off the Radar" Jackson, but things going nuclear at Ibrox would be interesting.

[AndyM_1875]

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/

Nothing but conjecture so far, and we should be cautious about Keith "Off the Radar" Jackson, but things going nuclear at Ibrox would be interesting.

We should definitely treat with suspicion the writings of Mr Jackson whilst also taking with a pinch of salt the spittle flecked, keyboard rage of the axe grinders and agenda peddlers of the blogging world.

It'll all come out in the wash anyway.

[Cropley10]

It'll all come out in the wash anyway.

I'm not sure it does though Andy. There are a bunch of reasons why the print media in Scotland have zero interest in actually pursuing the Sevco stories.

Take Big Chuck, a born liar, huge hands - the idea he wasn't in chaoots with Whyte & D&P seemed ludicrous at the time and does now; he bought the whole lot for £5.5m (by providing The Rangers with a loan!) then said it was worth £20m. Let's not forget there was circumstantial evidence that Green swindled Whyte using the Sevco 5088/Sevco Scotland switcheroo...

[grunt]

We should definitely treat with suspicion the writings of Mr Jackson whilst also taking with a pinch of salt the spittle flecked, keyboard rage of the axe grinders and agenda peddlers of the blogging world.Yes, but they can be fun, too!

https://rangerssupportersloyal.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/the-mark-of-success/comment-page-1/#comment-2623


According to Keith Jackson, who has dined well on the travails of Rangers, we are now on the brink of justice. Before I continue it’s important to note that Keith Jackson is a Rangers man. He followed Rangers as a boy and at one time played for a Rangers under 14 side. The perfect credentials for a career in SMSM. Mr Jackson and his former boss Mr Traynor have selective memories. Day after day they both regaled us with PR puff pieces on Craig Whyte. According to Jackson & Traynor he was a self-made millionaire who had successfully played the markets. Mr Traynor, who was at the centre of the media feeding frenzy, came to the conclusion that he was a billionaire.
No-one checked. No-one even asked the most obvious question as to how Mr Whyte managed to avoid the 2008 crash.

At a sumptuous dinner at SDM’s Jersey home, Mr Traynor and others were presented with a choice. They could lavishly dine on PR pieces from Stephen Kerr, or they could go against the grain and be blackballed. So when Craig Whyte arrived in Glasgow, having acquired the 84% holding of SDM, there was no due diligence by the so-called Scottish mainstream media. The media were hoping that the old back-scratching relationship would continue.

Media careers have been lost on less, but not for Mr Traynor who decided to join Stephen Kerr at Rangers. Mr Traynor received a lucrative salary and share options and then continued to influence others to write pro Rangers stories. Mr Traynor continues to earn from Rangers at Level 5. Informed speculation suggests that his fledgling company has earned circa £600,000 from their part in the underfunded coup d’etat. The phantom @exposingphil claimed that he had a relationship with the Level 5 protagonists and when I put it to him that this organisation would earn £1m from Rangers this year he responded that £1m was accurate, excluding the work preparing for and delivering the coup d’etat. Traynor/Kerr gave us the 3 Bears narrative to assuage our concerns that a convicted criminal was being given the reins at Ibrox. We were led to believe that the consortium of Taylor, Park & Letham were backing King and the implication was that even if King was a heavily indebted white collar criminal, three men of integrity had his back. I’m sure King considers it money well spent. Not his money of course. The invoices are to RIFC at Edmiston drive. The Rangers ST holders paid this bill and will continue to pay the Level 5 invoices.

So all this talk of justice leaves me cold. As Police Scotland continue their inquiries, it’s fairly obvious that Craig Whyte is going to be the fall guy. He is alleged to have falsified records, so I would be surprised if the prima facie evidence did not lead to a conviction for gaining a pecuniary advantage through deception. However, I fail to see the pecuniary advantage. He lost his home and is now personally liable for the £26.5m borrowed from Ticketus and their litigation costs. Is this the justice that Mr Jackson is referring to?

Chris McLaughlin wrote the following in 2012: “After HMRC rejected proposals for a creditors agreement that would have allowed the old club to continue, administrators Duff and Phelps negotiated a sale of assets to a consortium led by Mr Green for £5.5m. He has since formed a new club, now playing in the Scottish Football League Third Division.”

So where is the justice for Rangers fans? We were led a merry dance by the SMSM all the way to administration and beyond. Our club was carved up and sold as distressed assets. Our trademarks, crests and the Rangers brand were sold for a song. We were not allowed to acquire the Rangers SPL share and we find ourselves on a journey back to the top tier that has resulted in a minimum of four seasons in lower tier football and the absence of UEFA participation, We have also had to suffer the ignominy of being called a new club by the state broadcaster and our detractors

I don’t envisage any justice. Just a slap on the wrist for some corporate malfeasance which pales to insignificance when compared to the white collar crime of Dave King.

Jackson and Traynor have not been called to account. Until such time as they are, there will be no justice.

[greenginger]

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/

Nothing but conjecture so far, and we should be cautious about Keith "Off the Radar" Jackson, but things going nuclear at Ibrox would be interesting.


My only concern would be that if enough dirty dealings and connected party fiddles are uncovered , the whole onerous contracts Sevco setup could be undone and The Rangers FC emerge in a much stronger position financially.

[Sylar]

The administrator of 'OldCo', David Whitehouse is also under arrest apparently!

[CropleyWasGod]

The administrator of 'OldCo', David Whitehouse is also under arrest apparently!
Pretty sure that he was arrested and charged some time ago,no?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Sylar]

Pretty sure that he was arrested and charged some time ago,no?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

I just seen it as a 'breaking news' story on my Twitter feed earlier on. He's been detained by police today apparently?

[CropleyWasGod]

I just seen it as a 'breaking news' story on my Twitter feed earlier on. He's been detained by police today apparently?
Just checked.

He, and the joint administrators, were arrested in November. Can't post the link.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

The Daily Record bum-lickers getting it tight from the Guardianestas .


http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/aug/19/daily-record-rangers

[Sylar]

Just checked.

He, and the joint administrators, were arrested in November. Can't post the link.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1327848-ex-rangers-chief-executive-charles-green-detained-in-police-custody/

[CropleyWasGod]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1327848-ex-rangers-chief-executive-charles-green-detained-in-police-custody/
That makes twice then [emoji6]

http://m.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2381846/duff-phelps-trio-arrested-over-alleged-fraudulent-rangers-takeover

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Daily Record bum-lickers getting it tight from the Guardianestas .


http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/aug/19/daily-record-rangers

Preaching to the converted Mr Greenslade ........... we dinnae call it the 'Daily Ranger' for nuthin' :aok:

[AndyM_1875]

I'm not sure it does though Andy. There are a bunch of reasons why the print media in Scotland have zero interest in actually pursuing the Sevco stories.


A diminishing audience for a 4 year old tale of woe being one reason and watching lawyers being another as stories in the print media get far greater scrutiny than blogs.
Any nutcase can pump out a blog with all sorts of accusations and innuendo filled with rubbish like "my sources tell me ...." or "I am led to believe that...." Credit to him, Phil's been flogging that dead horse for years and he still has folk not recognizing him for the absolute spoofer that he is.. I recognized within days what I was reading on the blogs about the Rangers meltdown was bitter nonsense fuelled by agendas regarding perceived wrongs from the ancient past. I also wouldn't trust the MSM as far as I could throw it. The likes of the Sun and the Record especially are shockingly poor.



Take Big Chuck, a born liar, huge hands - the idea he wasn't in chaoots with Whyte & D&P seemed ludicrous at the time and does now; he bought the whole lot for £5.5m (by providing The Rangers with a loan!) then said it was worth £20m. Let's not forget there was circumstantial evidence that Green swindled Whyte using the Sevco 5088/Sevco Scotland switcheroo...

Big Chuck was an absolute barrow boy, a crook IMHO. So was Whyte. The pair of them had in common a brass neck, an endless supply of bull**** and a ton of front.

Within a year though will any of this matter? Rangers will be in the Premiership (much to the relief of the Peter Lawell) and the engines will be re-started on brand Old Firm as it's hawked around and hyped up by SkySports. Clubs like Hibs, Aberdeen & Hearts will be kicked to the side by the MSM/New & broadcast media as Celtic and Rangers pursue common goals. Expect joint sponsorships and absolute utter nonsense to spew from the tabloids(Old Firm : We have to go to England etc) probably from the moment Rangers secure a place in the top flight.

Sorry if my cynicism offends

[grunt]

Rebecca Gray ‏@RGrayHT 8m8 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/RGrayHT/status/638737486206869506) #Rangers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Rangers?src=hash) administrator David Whitehouse arrested. He is due at Glasgow Sheriff Court tomorrow

[Deansy]

How long are the Hun to be allowed to continually shame and disgrace our game and country ?. Surely it's time for the authorities to admit that they ARE a 'Bad lot' that continue to attract the type that has no respect for the law and continually flout it ?. There's an criminal-nature that's endemic at 'Greyskull' and there's no sign of there being any will for it to stop given that the current CEO is a convicted-criminal - you can almost guarantee what's going on currently will be replicated with King in a year or so !!

[steakbake]

A circus. What does it all mean, though? F••• knows!

[s.a.m]

Mike Farrell ‏@mikefstv 14s15 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/mikefstv/status/638764597399437312) Police Scotland confirm Charles Green has been arrested in 'investigation into the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers FC in 2012'

[s.a.m]

Mike Farrell ‏@mikefstv 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/mikefstv/status/638765334229569536) Also, in the last few minutes, Rangers oldco owner Craig Whyte has attended a police station for questioning in Glasgow.

[CropleyWasGod]

A circus. What does it all mean, though? F••• knows!
We won't have much of a clue until we know the charges. As I read it, the Court hearings will be in private, which doesn't help much.

My hunch, though, is that this has been instigated by the liquidator.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Just Alf]

We won't have much of a clue until we know the charges. As I read it, the Court hearings will be in private, which doesn't help much.

My hunch, though, is that this has been instigated by the liquidator.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Could this have any impact at all on the tribute act do you think?

[Spike Mandela]

Ahhh, those were the days..........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ally-mccoist-hails-charles-green-1271087

[CropleyWasGod]

Could this have any impact at all on the tribute act do you think?
Can't see that it would TBH.

The only way I can see that, is if the alleged fraudulent sale was reversed, which the liquidator is entitled to ask for.
However, we discussed this about the 300 pages ago....and Cav convinced me that the liquidator, on behalf of the creditors, would more likely sue D&P to recoup any losses.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Just Alf]

Can't see that it would TBH.

The only way I can see that, is if the alleged fraudulent sale was reversed, which the liquidator is entitled to ask for.
However, we discussed this about the 300 pages ago....and Cav convinced me that the liquidator, on behalf of the creditors, would more likely sue D&P to recoup any losses.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yeah, sort of remember that now you mention it....... Just wishful thinking!

[green glory]

15364

He he.

[greenginger]

Can't see that it would TBH.

The only way I can see that, is if the alleged fraudulent sale was reversed, which the liquidator is entitled to ask for.
However, we discussed this about the 300 pages ago....and Cav convinced me that the liquidator, on behalf of the creditors, would more likely sue D&P to recoup any losses.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


BDO have a brass neck pulling up Duff and Phelps for a bit of underhand dealing after the con-trick they pulled to get the Yams their CVA.

[Jim44]

A circus. What does it all mean, though? F••• knows!


Could this have any impact at all on the tribute act do you think?

I haven't a clue how it might impact on Sevco. The morons on FF are creaming themselves at the events of today and a few are suggesting that the club will be vindicated. They are suggesting that some sort of compensation will be forthcoming. A sum of around £100m is being mentioned.

[marinello59]

I haven't a clue how it might impact on Sevco. The morons on FF are creaming themselves at the events of today and a few are suggesting that the club will be vindicated. They are suggesting that some sort of compensation will be forthcoming. A sum of around £100m is being mentioned.

Compensation for what?

[Jim44]

Compensation for what?

No idea for what or from whom. Just posting what they are saying.:dunno:

[magpie1892]

I haven't a clue how it might impact on Sevco. The morons on FF are creaming themselves at the events of today and a few are suggesting that the club will be vindicated. They are suggesting that some sort of compensation will be forthcoming. A sum of around £100m is being mentioned.

Compensation forthcoming from the club, presumably? You know, to pay for all the taxes outstanding and the honours old hun stole?

[marinello59]

Compensation forthcoming from the club, presumably? You know, to pay for all the taxes outstanding and honours they stole?

That's what I was thinking. They really ain't the brightest if they think that this changes anything that that Oldco were guilty of.

[Jim44]

I haven't a clue how it might impact on Sevco. The morons on FF are creaming themselves at the events of today and a few are suggesting that the club will be vindicated. They are suggesting that some sort of compensation will be forthcoming. A sum of around £100m is being mentioned.


Compensation for what?


No idea for what or from whom. Just posting what they are saying.:dunno:


Compensation forthcoming from the club, presumably? You know, to pay for all the taxes outstanding and the honours old hun stole?


That's what I was thinking. They really ain't the brightest if they think that this changes anything that that Oldco were guilty of.

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .

[marinello59]

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .

Like I said, thick as pig ****.

[Billy Whizz]

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .

Cheated their way from Div 2 to the championship more like.

[Bostonhibby]

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .


:confused: You never know someone might even be able to whitewash over the history just prior to Whyte coming along, particularly how it was that he was able to pick the club up for so little.

[magpie1892]

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .

Rangers may or may not have suffered, but the club doesn't exist any more so what body is to be compensated and to whom apologies be directed? (other than, 'my God, I'm sorry you are so ****ing deluded')

They still don't get it. They never will.

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers may or may not have suffered, but the club doesn't exist any more so what body is to be compensated and to whom apologies be directed? (other than, 'my God, I'm sorry you are so ****ing deluded')

They still don't get it. They never will.
The company that used to own the club does still exist. It's in liquidation, but it exists.

If there is any "compensation ", it will be due because Sevco bought the assets of the old company at a fraudulently low price. However, that money would go to the liquidator of the old company, and be ultimately payable to the creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Real Emerald]

The company that used to own the club does still exist. It's in liquidation, but it exists.

If there is any "compensation ", it will be due because Sevco bought the assets of the old company at a fraudulently low price. However, that money would go to the liquidator of the old company, and be ultimately payable to the creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
The assets now owned by The Rangers that were aquired fraudulently at a fraction of there true costs. Is this not the same as receiving stolen goods?

[jacomo]

The company that used to own the club does still exist. It's in liquidation, but it exists.

If there is any "compensation ", it will be due because Sevco bought the assets of the old company at a fraudulently low price. However, that money would go to the liquidator of the old company, and be ultimately payable to the creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Oh Chuckie. Ken how Craig had to sell his castle?

[GreenLake]

A bear clawback

[PatHead]

Funny how there is no mention of David Murray in all this blame that is going on.

[Sir David Gray]

From FollowFollow:

Rangers are Innocent in All of This.

With the arrests of Green and company and the pending arrest of Whyte and charges involving fraud , it's clear Rangers as a club and the fans were the innocent party in all of this . The club has suffered terribly in allof this .

The SFA /SPL , SPL clubs and the media have been a disgrace in all of this as well , quite happy to moralise about and fine Rangers blindly ignoring the tens of millions and history being stripped from us .

With each revelation , it's clear Rangers have suffered and I hope compensation and sincere apologies come our way .

They're obviously not aware that the club takes responsibility for the actions of those who run it.

Do they seriously think that Rangers (R.I.P.) is somehow not responsible because it was just Charles Green and Craig Whyte who were up to dirty tricks?

Bless them!

PS-They can ram any sincere apologies. :aok:

They'll always be Sevco to me now. :greengrin

Glasgow Rangers
Six feet under
:not worth:not worth:not worth

[CropleyWasGod]

Funny how there is no mention of David Murray in all this blame that is going on.
Clearly better at using a shredder.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Onion]

They're obviously not aware that the club takes responsibility for the actions of those who run it.

Do they seriously think that Rangers (R.I.P.) is somehow not responsible because it was just Charles Green and Craig Whyte who were up to dirty tricks?

Bless them!

PS-They can ram any sincere apologies. :aok:

They'll always be Sevco to me now. :greengrin

Glasgow Rangers
Six feet under
:not worth:not worth:not worth

Agree, but it's what big teams do. Just look at the behaviour of the Yams and Vlad. While it was in flow, the company, fans and journos wallow in it's success but as soon as it collapsed into a sorry heap, they all fake ignorance and shock, and 100% blame is shoved onto an individual, to the extent that the Yams even had the Scottish First Minister pleading their case. Disgusting.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Agree, but it's what big teams do. Just look at the behaviour of the Yams and Vlad. While it was in flow, the company, fans and journos wallow in it's success but as soon as it collapsed into a sorry heap, they all fake ignorance and shock, and 100% blame is shoved onto an individual, to the extent that the Yams even had the Scottish First Minister pleading their case. Disgusting.

Spot on, it still irks me that they walked away scot free, cheating bassas, Edinburgh's eternal shame.

[Hermit Crab]

The assets now owned by The Rangers that were aquired fraudulently at a fraction of there true costs. Is this not the same as receiving stolen goods?

Proceeds of crime act anyone??

[green glory]

Proceeds of crime act anyone??

Is there a possibility of the original transfer asset being reversed if, as seems to be the case it has been judged as fraudulent? If so surely the liquidators (BDO) would be in the frame to receive them, ergo the creditors to benefit.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there a possibility of the original transfer asset being reversed if, as seems to be the case it has been judged as fraudulent? If so surely the liquidators (BDO) would be in the frame to receive them, ergo the creditors to benefit.
See a couple of pages back.

The liquidator can apply to the Court to have it reversed if he thinks the sale price was too low. However, that would be so messy as to make it almost unworkable.

The likelier scenario is that BDO would sue the administrators, who would get their insurers to pay out.

Remember, too, that this is all speculation. We don't know that the "alleged fraud " has anything to do with the sale price.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[PatHead]

See a couple of pages back.

The liquidator can apply to the Court to have it reversed if he thinks the sale price was too low. However, that would be so messy as to make it almost unworkable.

The likelier scenario is that BDO would sue the administrators, who would get their insurers to pay out.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

I would assume the insurers could in turn sue the fraudulent parties. Lawyers must be rubbing their hands.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would assume the insurers could in turn sue the fraudulent parties. Lawyers must be rubbing their hands.
Only if fraud were proven.

To be clear, there are two issues here which may or may not be linked.

1. The alleged undervaluing of the assets. That is what BDO can challenge.

2. The alleged fraud. We don't know what that is yet.

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[Moulin Yarns]

Only if fraud were proven.

To be clear, there are two issues here which may or may not be linked.

1. The alleged undervaluing of the assets. That is what BDO can challenge.

2. The alleged fraud. We don't know what that is yet.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

You have to think, if the Crown have taken it this far, they feel they have a good chance of winning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34109840

Former Rangers owner Craig Whyte and ex-chief executive Charles Green have been arrested as part of an inquiry into the "alleged fraudulent acquisition" of the club in 2012.

[CropleyWasGod]

You have to think, if the Crown have taken it this far, they feel they have a good chance of winning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34109840

Former Rangers owner Craig Whyte and ex-chief executive Charles Green have been arrested as part of an inquiry into the "alleged fraudulent acquisition" of the club in 2012.
Wish I had a pound for every time that's been said [emoji6]

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Jack Hackett]

In respect of Real Rangers continuing Liquidation (for what, nearly 3 years now?), how much are BDO getting for their lengthy involvement, and do they skim their money off the top of anything that may be in the pot?

[CropleyWasGod]

In respect of Real Rangers continuing Liquidation (for what, nearly 3 years now?), how much are BDO getting for their lengthy involvement, and do they skim their money off the top of anything that may be in the pot?
See the June report....

http://www.bdo.co.uk/services/business-restructuring/rfc-2012-plc-formerly-the-rangers-football-club-plc-in-liquidation

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[Jack Hackett]

See the June report....

http://www.bdo.co.uk/services/business-restructuring/rfc-2012-plc-formerly-the-rangers-football-club-plc-in-liquidation

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Grassy arse amigo


Edit....Nice work if you can get it....Approximately £1m a year....ongoing and no end in sight

[silverhibee]

Have they been remanded in the big hoose yet.

[Seveno]

Only if fraud were proven.

To be clear, there are two issues here which may or may not be linked.

1. The alleged undervaluing of the assets. That is what BDO can challenge.

2. The alleged fraud. We don't know what that is yet.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

If the Administrators were sued by BDO for negligence, the Insurers would refuse to indemnify them if it was shown to be a deliberate act e.g fraud.

[Deansy]

Funny how there is no mention of David Murray in all this blame that is going on.

Yup - that must've been some lamb the the SMSM were fed as it barely mentions him as well - and on the odd occasion he does get discussed it's still in glowing-tones !!. Baffling how the man who was 'Knighted for his service to business' never gets quizzed about the infamous 'Duped' statement - about as believeable as the average MP's expenses !!

[green glory]

I see the other administrator Paul Clark has now been collared by the fuzz.

[AndyM_1875]

Yup - that must've been some lamb the the SMSM were fed as it barely mentions him as well - and on the odd occasion he does get discussed it's still in glowing-tones !!. Baffling how the man who was 'Knighted for his service to business' never gets quizzed about the infamous 'Duped' statement - about as believeable as the average MP's expenses !!

Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itself.

[CropleyWasGod]

Grassy arse amigo


Edit....Nice work if you can get it....Approximately £1m a year....ongoing and no end in sight

TBF, they've done rather well for the creditors. They've already got £24m out of the company's former lawyers.

And, if my hunch is correct, the current goings-on could reap a fair bit more.

[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itself.

Given that I've always thought that SDM had to know about the CW/Ticketus deal, I now wonder if CW might do some sort of deal to ease the pain for himself, whilst dobbing SDM in.

[Spike Mandela]

Any doubt over ownership of Ibrox could have an effect on Mike Ashley's loan securities?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/ashley-advisers-look-at-january-27th-loan-again/#more-6752

[CropleyWasGod]

Any doubt over ownership of Ibrox could have an effect on Mike Ashley's loan securities?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/ashley-advisers-look-at-january-27th-loan-again/#more-6752

Bum. Talking out of his.

If MA's lawyers didn't check the securities properly in the first place, they only have themselves to blame and can look forward to being sued by MA.

I prefer to think that they did check them. That's their job, after all.

It's also easy for the general public to check these things, too. People like McGullible.

[southsider]

[QUOTE=AndyM_1875;4458612]Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itselWasWaswWwwwwDi
Was he not a bankrupt ? MIM crashed as did his hotel in George Street (staff told so).

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=AndyM_1875;4458612]Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itselWasWaswWwwwwDi
Was he not a bankrupt ? MIM crashed as did his hotel in George Street (staff told so).

The companies may have gone into insolvency, but he didn't personally.

[PatHead]

[QUOTE=AndyM_1875;4458612]Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itselWasWaswWwwwwDi
Was he not a bankrupt ? MIM crashed as did his hotel in George Street (staff told so).

Don't think he ever went bankrupt but wound down some of the less profitable or loss making companies which meant his other businesses were in good financial health. Some accountancy procedure.

Now that Crops has returned to his proper full time job on this forum he may enlighten us as a little knowledge is a dangerous thing from the likes of me.

[southsider]

[QUOTE=southsider;4458634]

The companies may have gone into insolvency, but he didn't personally.
So how is he allowed to be a director of a new company when his previous companies went tits-up owing zillions ? Thought he would have been barred for 7 years.

[Deansy]

Indeed but anyone thinking that Sir David Murray has disappeared to cry into his wineglass over his foolishness with Rangers and the subsequent liquidation of some of his larger, if less high profile, businesses in January 2014 best think again. He has gone back to what he knows (steel, property and finance) and his current business empire is doing pretty well for itself.

If that's the case, I wonder if there's any chance of him sorting out the mess over his company's pension-scheme ?. From what I've googled, there doesn't seem to be any update on it since May last year - in any other country, the media would be on this like a shot !. An absolutely, disgusting way to treat ex-employees who paid THEIR taxes and didn't take any LOANS from the company and not pay them back !!! Remember, we're talking about a man 'Knighted for service to business' etc, etc ...................................

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/pensions-crisis-at-murray-international-holdings-1-3407692

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4458640]
So how is he allowed to be a director of a new company when his previous companies went tits-up owing zillions ? Thought he would have been barred for 7 years.

It's not automatic.

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/directors-guides-insolvency/directors-disqualification

[southsider]

[QUOTE=southsider;4458643]

It's not automatic.

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/directors-guides-insolvency/directors-disqualification

Thanks for info but it seems the people who play by the rules come out the worst whilst the crooks and con-men get away with murder.

[Kato]

Given that I've always thought that SDM had to know about the CW/Ticketus deal, I now wonder if CW might do some sort of deal to ease the pain for himself, whilst dobbing SDM in.

If ever there was a twist in this tale that would make it worthy of making a movie from it, that is the twist. Could you imagine the fury?

[jacomo]

If that's the case, I wonder if there's any chance of him sorting out the mess over his company's pension-scheme ?. From what I've googled, there doesn't seem to be any update on it since May last year - in any other country, the media would be on this like a shot !. An absolutely, disgusting way to treat ex-employees who paid THEIR taxes and didn't take any LOANS from the company and not pay them back !!! Remember, we're talking about a man 'Knighted for service to business' etc, etc ...................................

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/pensions-crisis-at-murray-international-holdings-1-3407692

Who cares about some elderly former employees?

So long as SDM has enough to pay for lamb and Ferraris, that's the important thing.

He was a big fan of Thatcher, doncha know.

[Bostonhibby]

Who cares about some elderly former employees?

So long as SDM has enough to pay for lamb and Ferraris, that's the important thing.

He was a big fan of Thatcher, doncha know.

:agree: One Hun I worked with way back then said he was the Wallace Mercer of the west. :crazy:

They certainly seem to have had a similar approach to other peoples money / debt in their football clubs.

[ancient hibee]

One thing sure a Lord Advocate with the name Frank Mulholland will make there's a prosecution:greengrin Good luck in getting a jury.

[CropleyWasGod]

Douglas Fraser has just tweeted....

#Rangers charges, under Criminal Justice + Licensing (Scotland) Act, s28(1) on 'serious organised crime': max 10 yr jail sentence

ex-ceo Charles Green conspiracy + fraud, also conspiracy under Companies Act 2006: no plea or declaration,

ex-owner Craig Whyte + administrator David Whitehouse charged with conspiracy. Neither gave plea or declaration. Both bailed
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[Smartie]

Maybe this is a daft question but it's been bugging me watching some of these clips of "angry bears" heckling Green as he left court…….

Surely rather than being furious at these guys they should be eternally grateful? The likelihood is that these chaps will be the fall guys in the whole affair and will do some serious time. Now, I know their motivation will have been purely financial and they will hardly have been seeking glory and the approval of "the hordes".

But the bottom line is - had Green and his friends not done what they'd done then there would be no club for them to support now. Putting to one side all bickering about same club/different club etc there is a Rangers of sorts wearing blue and white and playing at Ibrox with stars on their strips etc. Without Green, Whyte and all their grubby associates then that might not have been the case?

Rangers (imo) got into the mess they did because of a warped sense of entitlement, a sense of immunity to the financial realities that affect all other football clubs and David Murray's grotesque mismanagement of the club.

Green, Whyte et al are opportunistic parasites who always appear when clubs are in distress and will ultimately end up being the fall guys in the whole affair. But had they not done what they did, when they did then there might not be a "The Rangers" to speak of.

No?

[greenginger]

I think there were plenty other crooks and comics willing to buy the deceased 's residue.

The Tennesee Tow Truck man springs to mind.

Whether they would have done a better or worse job we will never know.

[PatHead]

I think there were plenty other crooks and comics willing to buy the deceased 's residue.

The Tennesee Tow Truck man springs to mind.

Whether they would have done a better or worse job we will never know.

Not to mention the Double Glazing guy was it Kennedy?

[Cropley10]

Maybe this is a daft question but it's been bugging me watching some of these clips of "angry bears" heckling Green as he left court…….

Surely rather than being furious at these guys they should be eternally grateful? The likelihood is that these chaps will be the fall guys in the whole affair and will do some serious time. Now, I know their motivation will have been purely financial and they will hardly have been seeking glory and the approval of "the hordes".

But the bottom line is - had Green and his friends not done what they'd done then there would be no club for them to support now. Putting to one side all bickering about same club/different club etc there is a Rangers of sorts wearing blue and white and playing at Ibrox with stars on their strips etc. Without Green, Whyte and all their grubby associates then that might not have been the case?

Rangers (imo) got into the mess they did because of a warped sense of entitlement, a sense of immunity to the financial realities that affect all other football clubs and David Murray's grotesque mismanagement of the club.

Green, Whyte et al are opportunistic parasites who always appear when clubs are in distress and will ultimately end up being the fall guys in the whole affair. But had they not done what they did, when they did then there might not be a "The Rangers" to speak of.

No?

Except D&P entered into an exclusive binding agreement with Green fairly early on. This prevented
Sir Walter of the Cardigan from entering late on.

Murray knew Whyte, who knew Green, as well as D&P. This was an attempted 'fake-over' - and it was Green who established the onerous contracts which are hurting The Rangers today. That's what the Bears are angry about...

[Famous Fiver]

Greeno didn't look a well man on the telly.

Looks like life is taking a turn for the worse. Life on the inside will be no bed of roses.

[Cropley10]

Bum. Talking out of his.

If MA's lawyers didn't check the securities properly in the first place, they only have themselves to blame and can look forward to being sued by MA.

I prefer to think that they did check them. That's their job, after all.

It's also easy for the general public to check these things, too. People like McGullible.

I think his point is that the claim of ownership, what has been stated publicly, might not be accurate. Mike Ashley is a very smart, very succesful and very wealthy man, with access to the very best advice. I'm aware of who he retains in Scotland...

The whole new Rangers thing was set up to benefit certain people, rather than The People.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I think his point is that the claim of ownership, what has been stated publicly, might not be accurate. Mike Ashley is a very smart, very succesful and very wealthy man, with access to the very best advice. I'm aware of who he retains in Scotland...

The whole new Rangers thing was set up to benefit certain people, rather than The People.:greengrin
Even so, the idea that his lawyers weren't able to establish the true ownership is a bit far - fetched, no?

That would mean that the auditors had been duped as well.

Indeed, it would be fraud. [emoji6]

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[Cropley10]

Even so, the idea that his lawyers weren't able to establish the true ownership is a bit far - fetched, no?

That would mean that the auditors had been duped as well.

Indeed, it would be fraud. [emoji6]

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Ashley holds security over his loans, it might suit him for The Rangers to have played fast and loose with the truth... He wants the badges and a loan default, legally enforceable, might allow him to get them.

There's ownership and beneficial ownership isn't there?

[majorhibs]

Maybe this is a daft question but it's been bugging me watching some of these clips of "angry bears" heckling Green as he left court…….

Surely rather than being furious at these guys they should be eternally grateful? The likelihood is that these chaps will be the fall guys in the whole affair and will do some serious time. Now, I know their motivation will have been purely financial and they will hardly have been seeking glory and the approval of "the hordes".

But the bottom line is - had Green and his friends not done what they'd done then there would be no club for them to support now. Putting to one side all bickering about same club/different club etc there is a Rangers of sorts wearing blue and white and playing at Ibrox with stars on their strips etc. Without Green, Whyte and all their grubby associates then that might not have been the case?

Rangers (imo) got into the mess they did because of a warped sense of entitlement, a sense of immunity to the financial realities that affect all other football clubs and David Murray's grotesque mismanagement of the club.

Green, Whyte et al are opportunistic parasites who always appear when clubs are in distress and will ultimately end up being the fall guys in the whole affair. But had they not done what they did, when they did then there might not be a "The Rangers" to speak of.

No?

You lived through the huns in the 70s? Every, single, despicable, foul part of anything "hun" & they gloried in that term about themselves then, all part of the no one likes us drivel, the huns in the 70s were so low there really is no coming back for behaviour like that. Lowest.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34138604


A fourth man has appeared in court over the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers' assets in 2012.
Paul Clark, 51, was charged with conspiracy and involvement in serious organised crime. He made no plea or declaration and was released on bail.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/14770/production/_85342838_85342836.jpg

[jacomo]

Greeno didn't look a well man on the telly.

Looks like life is taking a turn for the worse. Life on the inside will be no bed of roses.

This is white collar crime.

If he's convicted, he'll be in an open prison, with a large audience of lags for his stories. He'll be fine.

It's Craig Whyte who looks to me like he can't quite understand what has happened. It was all looking so promising.

[AndyM_1875]

If that's the case, I wonder if there's any chance of him sorting out the mess over his company's pension-scheme ?. From what I've googled, there doesn't seem to be any update on it since May last year - in any other country, the media would be on this like a shot !. An absolutely, disgusting way to treat ex-employees who paid THEIR taxes and didn't take any LOANS from the company and not pay them back !!! Remember, we're talking about a man 'Knighted for service to business' etc, etc ...................................

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/pensions-crisis-at-murray-international-holdings-1-3407692

I don't know about the pension funds but the way I was told it by a lawyer friend was that SDM actually transferred most if not all of the staff at his loss making debt ridden businesses into other parts of his business which were long term going concerns or out into new jobs elsewhere. Whilst mad Phil and his mouth breathing followers got somewhat over exited about MIH being liquidated thinking this was the end for David Murray they could not have been more wrong.

What SDM actually did was a fairly cynical dumping of what actually were debt ridden shells after he's scooped out all the good stuff (staff/transfers of existing contracts).
He was still a director and in one case CEO of a number of extremely profitable companies loosely gathered under the Murray Group's wing. He may no longer be the Teflon, golden boy of the Scottish business community but he's still held in reasonably high regard by many people in the business community and he has survived in to the post 2008 world where banks will no longer support businesses running long term on debt finance.

[liamh2202]

I don't know about the pension funds but the way I was told it by a lawyer friend was that SDM actually transferred most if not all of the staff at his loss making debt ridden businesses into other parts of his business which were long term going concerns or out into new jobs elsewhere. Whilst mad Phil and his mouth breathing followers got somewhat over exited about MIH being liquidated thinking this was the end for David Murray they could not have been more wrong.

What SDM actually did was a fairly cynical dumping of what actually were debt ridden shells after he's scooped out all the good stuff (staff/transfers of existing contracts).
He was still a director and in one case CEO of a number of extremely profitable companies loosely gathered under the Murray Group's wing. He may no longer be the Teflon, golden boy of the Scottish business community but he's still held in reasonably high regard by many people in the business community and he has survived in to the post 2008 world where banks will no longer support businesses running long term on debt finance.

I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

[Kato]

I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

[liamh2202]

Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

Thanks kato. I was very young at the time but recalled it being mentioned on the team that wouldn't die.

[AndyM_1875]

I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

Sir Tom is much more conservative (small c) than Murray ever was. STF isn't arrogant or brash although he is just as driven and he's not a man to cross.

CWG can correct me here but I'd very much doubt that Sir Tom would take the risks David Murray did building businesses and then running them on debt the way Murray did. He's much more old school, checks the books etc.

[Bostonhibby]

Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

:agree:Exactly the opposite of what the Yams and the now defunct Glasgow Rangers new front men did.

Lest they forget.

[Kojock]

Greeno didn't look a well man on the telly.

Looks like life is taking a turn for the worse. Life on the inside will be no bed of roses.

Innocent until proven guilty. If it goes to trial it will be a long drawn out complicated affair with a lot of twists and turns. Would hate to be sitting on that jury.

[CropleyWasGod]

Innocent until proven guilty. If it goes to trial it will be a long drawn out complicated affair with a lot of twists and turns. Would hate to be sitting on that jury.

Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.

[Kato]

Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove.


One method of proof is if someone involved had recorded all their phone calls with the other parties concerned and those recordings were being made available.

[silverhibee]

Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.


I'm no CDL :greengrin but don't they have to appear next week to enter the plea as the charges will be on a petition charge sheet.


Just a hunch, but my money is on Not Guilty plea being entered by the four of them. :greengrin

The big dilemma for the prosecution will be where the trial takes place, i really can't see it taking place at Glasgow High Court.

[Kojock]

Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.

Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

[Billy Whizz]

Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

I wonder if a question will be, who do they support

[greenginger]

Apart from the conspiracy , fraud etc charges facing the 3 who were in court yesterday , Charles Green faces an additional charge under Section 190 of the Companies Act.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/190

That section covers company directors acquiring " substantial non-cash company property without express approval of company members "

Surely he can't have nicked the Big Hoose ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Apart from the conspiracy , fraud etc charges facing the 3 who were in court yesterday , Charles Green faces an additional charge under Section 190 of the Companies Act.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/190

That section covers company directors acquiring " substantial non-cash company property without express approval of company members "

Surely he can't have nicked the Big Hoose ! :greengrin

Section 191 :-

An asset is a substantial asset in relation to a company if its value—

(a)exceeds 10% of the company's asset value and is more than £5,000, or

(b)exceeds £100,000.

Can't be too many of them.

Maybe he kidnapped Lee McCulloch.

Edit.... aye, right enough. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

I wonder if a question will be, who do they support

Wonder if any of the four will go with Donald Findlay QC for the trial.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

Where does one volunteer?

[IanM]

off topic but rangers related

@RaithRovers_FC: The club has asked the Compliance Officer to look into possible rule breach by Rangers FC and one of its players. See http://t.co/jN8dd8juY2

Wish I knew how to hyperlink!

[Billy Whizz]

off topic but rangers related

@RaithRovers_FC: The club has asked the Compliance Officer to look into possible rule breach by Rangers FC and one of its players. See http://t.co/jN8dd8juY2

Wish I knew how to hyperlink!

Rangers seem to make their own rules up

http://www.raithrovers.net/21283/compliance-officer-asked-to-investigate-early-return-of-rangers-player-from-international-duty.htm

[grunt]

Ahead of Saturday’s Ladbrokes Championship match versus Rangers at Ibrox, Raith Rovers FC has today asked the Scottish FA’s Compliance Officer to consider whether he agrees that Rangers FC, through David Weir, have breached SFA Articles and Rules by requesting and securing the early release of its player Ryan Hardie from international duty with Scotland Under 19s in Bulgaria, for the sole reason that he is then available to play against Raith Rovers.

Raith Rovers FC also has an important player in the same Under 19 squad, 1st team regular Craig Wighton, and Craig remains in Bulgaria and available for selection for Friday evening’s national representative match. He will fly home with the rest of the squad on Saturday afternoon. We are delighted that Craig is receiving international recognition, and whilst we are without his services for the crucial match with Rangers, our loss is Scotland’s gain.

Naturally we are concerned that if there is any breach of Article 82.1 and Rules 56 & 57, this would – in these circumstances – result in an unfairness in terms of players available for selection for Saturday’s match, which is to our disadvantage.

[JimBHibees]

Ahead of Saturday’s Ladbrokes Championship match versus Rangers at Ibrox, Raith Rovers FC has today asked the Scottish FA’s Compliance Officer to consider whether he agrees that Rangers FC, through David Weir, have breached SFA Articles and Rules by requesting and securing the early release of its player Ryan Hardie from international duty with Scotland Under 19s in Bulgaria, for the sole reason that he is then available to play against Raith Rovers.

Raith Rovers FC also has an important player in the same Under 19 squad, 1st team regular Craig Wighton, and Craig remains in Bulgaria and available for selection for Friday evening’s national representative match. He will fly home with the rest of the squad on Saturday afternoon. We are delighted that Craig is receiving international recognition, and whilst we are without his services for the crucial match with Rangers, our loss is Scotland’s gain.

Naturally we are concerned that if there is any breach of Article 82.1 and Rules 56 & 57, this would – in these circumstances – result in an unfairness in terms of players available for selection for Saturday’s match, which is to our disadvantage.

That is quite simply incredible. How have the under 19s and SFA allowed this to happen. Absolute shambles. You would have thought given the respective squads Raith could have done with their player back.

[Billy Whizz]

That is quite simply incredible. How have the under 19s and SFA allowed this to happen. Absolute shambles. You would have thought given the respective squads Raith could have done with their player back.

All fixtures in the top 2 leagues should be cancelled for the international break

[Mr White]

Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

does anyone know if Raith have been training this week with just 10 players for the visit to bigotbrox , or is it only hertz that do that

[JimBHibees]

Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready :greengrin

More the principal of it rather than how likely the player is to play.

[Mr White]

More the principal of it rather than how likely the player is to play.

I agree to an extent but I feel there's an element of them playing the martyr here.

[JimBHibees]

I agree to an extent but I feel there's an element of them playing the martyr here.

Disagree they probably just think one rule for one. Good that they have spoken out IMO.

[Twiglet]

Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready :greengrin


It's about breaking the rules. There's no reason for calling him back (they don't say about him being injured or anything) so why has he? Maybe they plan to use him this weekend. They've already said they'll stop players going on international duty

[Mr White]

It's about breaking the rules. There's no reason for calling him back (they don't say about him being injured or anything) so why he has been is unknown. Maybe they plan to use him this weekend. They've already said they'll stop players going on international duty

Yeah, I wonder if raith might have been better highlighting that by requesting their player be released, though I respect them for not wanting to deny the player his chance with the national side. I'm not sure it's as simple as rule breaking tbh. If the club request a player's release and the sfa allow it then where's the problem? Different scenario to claiming injury to take it out of the association's hands.

Re the bit in bold, that would likely work in raiths favour if it meant miller or waghorn being dropped :greengrin

[jonty]

Apparently you can pay a charge and have a player released, which Raith were unwilling to do. It doesn't say if the Rangers paid up front (or at all)

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1328021-raith-rovers-turned-down-early-scotland-release-for-craig-wighton/

Grant Russell
@STVGrant
This has come down to money. Rangers can pay to fly Hardie home, Raith can't for Wighton. bit.ly/1hEc7Q8

[Billy Whizz]

Apparently you can pay a charge and have a player released, which Raith were unwilling to do. It doesn't say if the Rangers paid up front (or at all)

That's so wrong. This is a player in the under 19's, who may never get s chance to represent his country at any level in the future

[Bostonhibby]

I'm no CDL :greengrin but don't they have to appear next week to enter the plea as the charges will be on a petition charge sheet.


Just a hunch, but my money is on Not Guilty plea being entered by the four of them. :greengrin

The big dilemma for the prosecution will be where the trial takes place, i really can't see it taking place at Glasgow High Court.

How are they going to find a judge with no masonic / the now defunct Glasgow rangers tendencies in the Scottish Judicial system?

[hhibs]

I wonder if a question will be, who do they support


OR


"what school did you go to ?"

OR

"What is your favourite flute band ?"

[jonty]

That's so wrong. This is a player in the under 19's, who may never get s chance to represent his country at any level in the future

Looks like the 'fee' may be the cost to fly the player home. Wouldn't be surprised if the U19s player for Rangers paid it himself on the promise of 'reimbursement' .
Either that or someone at the SFA is trying to make a quick buck

Rangers assistant manager asked for Hardie to be released early prior to Scotland's flight on Monday, a request which was granted by the Scottish FA.
At that point, STV understands Raith were then approached and offered the opportunity for Wighton to also be released early.
Both flew out for the first game in a double header with Bulgaria. However, Rangers then paid for Hardie's early return. It is understood Raith were unwilling to do likewise for their player.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/general-ashley-makes-a-move/


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[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/general-ashley-makes-a-move/


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Taking that blog, adding in the charge against Green....stirring a bit....we come up with the idea that CG has purloined Murray Park for himself.

It's a bit fanciful....but, if it's true...Ashley 's lawyers, Rangers ex-auditors and Rangers current Board will all be cacking themselves for different reasons.

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[Mr White]

Phil macs the celtic equivalent of that nutjob that hides in the bushes at east mains with the breaking rumour nonsense no?

[Billy Whizz]

Taking that blog, adding in the charge against Green....stirring a bit....we come up with the idea that CG has purloined Murray Park for himself.

It's a bit fanciful....but, if it's true...Ashley 's lawyers, Rangers ex-auditors and Rangers current Board will all be cacking themselves for different reasons.

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Crops, maybe it's just me, I'm now totally confused with this whole thing, since Whyte bought from Murray.

[CropleyWasGod]

Phil macs the celtic equivalent of that nutjob that hides in the bushes at east mains with the breaking rumour nonsense no?
Actually, I am now running with Phil's thoughts now.....the telly is crap.

Maybe we're getting to the bottom of why Deloittes resigned as auditors. Maybe they realised that they f'd up.

Or maybe I'm turning into Phil? [emoji6]

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[Mr White]

Actually, I am now running with Phil's thoughts now.....the telly is crap.

Maybe we're getting to the bottom of why Deloittes resigned as auditors. Maybe they realised that they f'd up.

Or maybe I'm turning into Phil? [emoji6]

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Reading that last blog post it seems hard not to dismiss it as assumption based on currently reported fact dressed up as look at me I'm itk. Mind you even a broken clock etc... him not you btw :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

What I really want is a full court case where there is full disclosure and the SFA must give evidence on the nature of their involvement.
My only other wish would by an insolvency event this season and the 25pt penalty that goes with it.



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[CropleyWasGod]

Reading that last blog post it seems hard not to dismiss it as assumption based on currently reported fact dressed up as look at me I'm itk. Mind you even a broken clock etc... him not you btw :greengrin
Yeah that's what the head is saying. But there have been so many twists in this case......

The film is going to be a belter.

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[Billy Whizz]

What I really want is a full court case where there is full disclosure and the SFA must give evidence on the nature of their involvement.
My only other wish would by an insolvency event this season and the 25pt penalty that goes with it.



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Far too lenient

[Ozyhibby]

Far too lenient

You know me Bill, always been the forgiving type. [emoji3]


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[Jack]

Yeah that's what the head is saying. But there have been so many twists in this case......

The film is going to be a belter.

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Question:

Are any of the current shenanigans likely to have any impact on the club known as the rangers?

If so how?

While I appreciate you normally answer such questions in accounting terms ... ;-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Question:

Are any of the current shenanigans likely to have any impact on the club known as the rangers?

If so how?

While I appreciate you normally answer such questions in accounting terms ...
It's very doubtful. For one thing, the Court cases won't start until well into next year.

However, IF Phil is right and CG has snaffled Murray Park without telling anybody. ...MA will call in his loan, which might trigger an insolvency event and Ozy will get half his wish.

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[AndyM_1875]

Actually, I am now running with Phil's thoughts now.....the telly is crap.

Maybe we're getting to the bottom of why Deloittes resigned as auditors. Maybe they realised that they f'd up.

Or maybe I'm turning into Phil? [emoji6]

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As you are neither paranoid or criminally insane I very much doubt you are turning into Phil.:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

As you are neither paranoid or criminally insane I very much doubt you are turning into Phil.:wink:

Thanks for the compliment.... I think :greengrin

Actually, been turning over the question of the charge against CG of transferring the "company property". I do find it hard to believe that he could transfer a building (Phil reckons Murray Park), without the auditors/MA's lawyers/Rangers' current Board/Rangers' current lawyers/diligent journalists/the general public/Green Ginger being able to find out.

It would be "easier" to do it with something less tangible.... say, the badges and stuff.

However, we're now getting into the area of speculation about the trial. The Crown office issued a warning the other day about that, so maybe we should stop. Any admin thoughts?

[greenginger]

As you are neither paranoid or criminally insane I very much doubt you are turning into Phil.:wink:


I think we all know your feelings re Phil, but " Criminal " is going a bit far.

Phil is a bit paranoid I agree, but I think your equally paranoid about his paranoia. :greengrin

Phil has got a few gems of info. long before other media, you've just got to ignore his infuriating writing style, recognise his agenda and his target audience .

[greenginger]

Regarding transfer of property, it is up to a purchaser/new owner if and when they register the new title with the Registers of Scotland. There is no legal requirement.

A signed , witnessed document with RIFC Company stamp on it may be lying in a lawyers office awaiting presentation as evidence of actual property ownership.

[CropleyWasGod]

Regarding transfer of property, it is up to a purchaser/new owner if and when they register the new title with the Registers of Scotland. There is no legal requirement.

A signed , witnessed document with RIFC Company stamp on it may be lying in a lawyers office awaiting presentation as evidence of actual property ownership.

So how would MA's lawyers or RIFC's auditors establish title?

[Ozyhibby]

Regarding transfer of property, it is up to a purchaser/new owner if and when they register the new title with the Registers of Scotland. There is no legal requirement.

A signed , witnessed document with RIFC Company stamp on it may be lying in a lawyers office awaiting presentation as evidence of actual property ownership.

Which is what has been alleged by Phil for a long time along with his allegation that the new Rangers have to pay £278,000 a month in rent for whatever it is that has been transferred.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Which is what has been alleged by Phil for a long time along with his allegation that the new Rangers have to pay £278,000 a month in rent for whatever it is that has been transferred.


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And it was shown that that lease was for catering equipment.

[Just Alf]

And it was shown that that lease was for catering equipment.

Hmm. I remember that discussion a few pages back (then you destroyed my illusions! :greengrin ) ......... But....... On 2nd thoughts, over a quarter of a £million per month on a few cookers, a kettle and a micro!!!! :cb

[Ozyhibby]

And it was shown that that lease was for catering equipment.

That's a lot of catering equipment?


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[CropleyWasGod]

That's a lot of catering equipment?


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Yep, but the accounts are quite clear. "Hire of plant and equipment". Not "rent of property". They then explain it as "The finance leases relate to funding of the refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets."

The accounts go on to say that the Properties (plural) have been valued by.... etc etc.

And the leases are nowhere near what Phil says. £477k pa according to the accounts.

[Ozyhibby]

And it was shown that that lease was for catering equipment.

Everything changes so quickly in this saga. It was also shown on here a few months back that all the assets were in fact owned by Rangers and that you only had to check to see the title deeds or something.
Now Green ginger is saying that it's possible someone else owns them and they have not registered them and that there is no requirement for them to do so?
Given that the law are now involved, I think it would be difficult to rule anything out. I just hope that it has a disastrous effect on the new Rangers as I have come to dislike them as much as the old Rangers.


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[Ozyhibby]

Yep, but the accounts are quite clear. "Hire of plant and equipment". Not "rent of property". They then explain it as "The finance leases relate to funding of the refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets."

The accounts go on to say that the Properties (plural) have been valued by.... etc etc.

And the leases are nowehere near what Phil says. £477k pa according to the accounts.

Difficult to say it's the same thing if the amounts are different, no?
It is surely possible that there are two amounts leaving the club?
I'm pretty sure these guys could find a way of hiding the money given that it's estimated they spent about £70m in the two years after the ipo and nobody seems to know what on?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Difficult to say it's the same thing if the amounts are different, no?
It is surely possible that there are two amounts leaving the club?
I'm pretty sure these guys could find a way of hiding the money given that it's estimated they spent about £70m in the two years after the ipo and nobody seems to know what on?


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I'd prefer to let the auditors, the property valuers and MA's lawyers make a judgement on that. Thus far, Phil has only speculated, with nothing in the way of hard evidence.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd prefer to let the auditors, the property valuers and MA's lawyers make a judgement on that. Thus far, Phil has only speculated, with nothing in the way of hard evidence.

I agree on that although I hope it's more that just MA's lawyers that eventually pass judgement.
I'm not saying that Phil is correct, just that it's hard to say with any certainty what is correct in this whole thing.



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[CropleyWasGod]

I have too much time on my hands today :greengrin

The accounts have the following statement:-

At 31 August 2012 the Directors valued the Freehold Properties, comprising Ibrox stadium and Murray Park training facility based on a value in use calculation of the net present values of future operating cash flows.

They don't mention the car park or Edmiston House. Two thoughts:-

1. those may be included as "the stadium", since they're adjoining.

2. they may not be, and RIFC don't own them any more. In that case, either the reports of MA having security over them are wrong, or (as was discussed earlier) his lawyers really have f'd up.

[Just Alf]

Yep, but the accounts are quite clear. "Hire of plant and equipment". Not "rent of property". They then explain it as "The finance leases relate to funding of the refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets."

The accounts go on to say that the Properties (plural) have been valued by.... etc etc.

And the leases are nowhere near what Phil says. £477k pa according to the accounts.

Sigh...... Every time I get all exited YOU come along and burst my bubble with the pesky truth!! :grr:







PS keep up the good work, glad someone can get a handle reality :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

I have too much time on my hands today :greengrin

The accounts have the following statement:-

At 31 August 2012 the Directors valued the Freehold Properties, comprising Ibrox stadium and Murray Park training facility based on a value in use calculation of the net present values of future operating cash flows.

They don't mention the car park or Edmiston House. Two thoughts:-

1. those may be included as "the stadium", since they're adjoining.

2. they may not be, and RIFC don't own them any more. In that case, either the reports of MA having security over them are wrong, or (as was discussed earlier) his lawyers really have f'd up.

Rather than any hiving by CG once installed in Ibrox as chairman, is it not more likely that the ownership of *all* the assets is questionable because of dodgy dealings in the acquisition of the Hun brand and assets by Sevco? If it's proved that Duff, Duffer, CG and CW were all in cahoots, could that purchase be challenged and the assets returned to the liquidator? Thus putting MA's security in doubt and making him more likely to try and get his money back sharpish.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Glasgow Rangers - Always the flippin' victim :rolleyes:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rangers-hit-back-at-raith-rovers-over-sfa-probe-1-3877838

[CropleyWasGod]

Rather than any hiving by CG once installed in Ibrox as chairman, is it not more likely that the ownership of *all* the assets is questionable because of dodgy dealings in the acquisition of the Hun brand and assets by Sevco? If it's proved that Duff, Duffer, CG and CW were all in cahoots, could that purchase be challenged and the assets returned to the liquidator? Thus putting MA's security in doubt and making him more likely to try and get his money back sharpish.
They wouldn't be returned to the liquidator. The liquidator has never had them in his possession.

If they were to be returned to anyone, it would be the administrators to redo the whole CVA process. In your scenario, that's not an option.

As I mentioned earlier, if it's proven that the creditors have been shafted.....either through incompetence or fraud....the liquidator can sue the administrators.

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[Cropley10]

I have too much time on my hands today :greengrin

The accounts have the following statement:-

At 31 August 2012 the Directors valued the Freehold Properties, comprising Ibrox stadium and Murray Park training facility based on a value in use calculation of the net present values of future operating cash flows.

They don't mention the car park or Edmiston House. Two thoughts:-

1. those may be included as "the stadium", since they're adjoining.

2. they may not be, and RIFC don't own them any more. In that case, either the reports of MA having security over them are wrong, or (as was discussed earlier) his lawyers really have f'd up.

Pretty sure the Registers of Scotland shows both EH and the car park as belonging to Rangers. It's also a matter of public record that MA does have security over them.

What has NEVER been properly established is who really owns Ibrox itself, as if the Rangers did there would, surely, be no harm, or shame in mortgaging it to provide much needed capital.

I still say that MA is looking for a watertight loan default condition in order to tighten the screw.

[Cropley10]

Yep, but the accounts are quite clear. "Hire of plant and equipment". Not "rent of property". They then explain it as "The finance leases relate to funding of the refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets."

The accounts go on to say that the Properties (plural) have been valued by.... etc etc.

And the leases are nowhere near what Phil says. £477k pa according to the accounts.

So, how would say a royalty fee show in the accounts....?

Let's suppose that an offshore company has a contract whereby they're legally entitled to a percentage of the gate, or in return for some 'service' they receive a 'royalty payment' based on attendance and/or which Division the team plays in.

Bear in mind that Green and Co set up 'onerous contracts' deliberately so as to avoid any specific detailed inspection and more importantly to benefit themselves...

[JeMeSouviens]

They wouldn't be returned to the liquidator. The liquidator has never had them in his possession.

If they were to be returned to anyone, it would be the administrators to redo the whole CVA process. In your scenario, that's not an option.

As I mentioned earlier, if it's proven that the creditors have been shafted.....either through incompetence or fraud....the liquidator can sue the administrators.

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BDO seem quite good on the litigation front. What would happen to the assets if BDO won? Does RIFC get to keep them? Aren't they effectively stolen goods at that point?

[greenginger]

BDO seem quite good on the litigation front. What would happen to the assets if BDO won? Does RIFC get to keep them? Aren't they effectively stolen goods at that point?


And maybe someone should sue BDO for the fiddled result on the vote in favour of Heart of Midlothian's CVA.

[GreenLake]

Yeah that's what the head is saying. But there have been so many twists in this case......

The film is going to be a belter.

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Unfortunately, John Candy won't be able to play McCoist.

[AndyM_1875]

BDO seem quite good on the litigation front. What would happen to the assets if BDO won? Does RIFC get to keep them? Aren't they effectively stolen goods at that point?

Rangers will be unaffected.

This is a dispute between Administrator and Liquidator. BDO would sue D&P.

[greenginger]

Rangers will be unaffected.

This is a dispute between Administrator and Liquidator. BDO would sue D&P.


More than likely, but until it is sorted out I think a fresh share issue is out of the question and loans from Real Rangers men will be thin on the ground.

[AndyM_1875]

More than likely, but until it is sorted out I think a fresh share issue is out of the question and loans from Real Rangers men will be thin on the ground.

Do Rangers need loans? I have no idea.

They have a much cheaper squad than last season and they're playing to 45k crowds. Income must surely be up:dunno:

[greenginger]

Do Rangers need loans? I have no idea.

They have a much cheaper squad than last season and they're playing to 45k crowds. Income must surely be up:dunno:


I can't see the 4 guys they brought up from England being cheaper than Boyd, Dailly, Black etc and Warburton and Weir , who knows. I would guess £ 1 million for the manager and £ 0.5 m for the assistant.

Last season they were toiling for cash by December and that was starting with £ 5 million of share issue money still in the bank.

[Ozyhibby]

Rangers will be unaffected.

This is a dispute between Administrator and Liquidator. BDO would sue D&P.

If the assets of the new Rangers were incorrectly represented in the ipo then surely some of the institutional investors may have a case against the new Rangers?
I think it's too early to say that new Rangers will be unaffected.


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[Ozyhibby]

I can't see the 4 guys they brought up from England being cheaper than Boyd, Dailly, Black etc and Warburton and Weir , who knows. I would guess £ 1 million for the manager and £ 0.5 m for the assistant.

Last season they were toiling for cash by December and that was starting with £ 5 million of share issue money still in the bank.

King has said they will need external finance to finish the season.


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[CropleyWasGod]

So, how would say a royalty fee show in the accounts....?

Let's suppose that an offshore company has a contract whereby they're legally entitled to a percentage of the gate, or in return for some 'service' they receive a 'royalty payment' based on attendance and/or which Division the team plays in.

Bear in mind that Green and Co set up 'onerous contracts' deliberately so as to avoid any specific detailed inspection and more importantly to benefit themselves...
Not sure if royalties need to be separately disclosed in the accounts. Cav will know.

Decent scam, though.

Edit. If the offshore company has a connection with the club, it would have to be disclosed as a Related Party Transaction


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[Moulin Yarns]

It must be desperate times in the world of Chartered Accountancy.

Campbell Dallas have accepted the role as auditors to the Rangers.

[CropleyWasGod]

It must be desperate times in the world of Chartered Accountancy.

Campbell Dallas have accepted the role as auditors to the Rangers.
Everybody does dirty things for money. Some of us haggle about the price....

Where are you reading that?

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[Moulin Yarns]

Everybody does dirty things for money. Some of us haggle about the price....

Where are you reading that?

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I saw it on the web. Maybe the Evening Times. On my phone now so can't link.

I googled Rangers and limited the search to 24 hours.

[CropleyWasGod]

I saw it on the web. Maybe the Evening Times. On my phone now so can't link.

I googled Rangers and limited the search to 24 hours.

Just back in the office, and found it, cheers for that.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/campbell-dallas-named-as-new-rangers-auditors-1-3877773

[Moulin Yarns]

Just back in the office, and found it, cheers for that.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/campbell-dallas-named-as-new-rangers-auditors-1-3877773


Yes that looks like it.

[ancient hibee]

If it's proved that the assets were fraudulently acquired surely the subsequent share issue would also have been fraudulent which would mean that the sale to the Easdale's would be suspect too.

[grunt]

award-winning, progressive and dynamicWow! Not words usually associated with the world of Chartered Accountancy! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Wow! Not words usually associated with the world of Chartered Accountancy! :greengrin
Square go?

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[grunt]

Square go?

No you're too big for me.

[CropleyWasGod]

No you're too big for me.
Just as well this is a family board :)

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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-problems-of-an-underfunded-hostile-takeover/


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