Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Keith_M]

Yep, we're a nation of sour puss'. The grey men have taken over and all colour is being squeezed out of life. As I recall that started in Wallyford :-)

Jeezo, how many Wallyfordians are on this forum? Maybe we should create a sub-forum just for us :greengrin

[J-C]

Why does the article talk about Rangers? They don't exist anymore.

Yes they do " The Rangers Football Club " is the official name, all the y did was add the "The"

[Jim44]

Yes they do " The Rangers Football Club " is the official name, all the y did was add the "The"

Calling them 'sevco' is not a crime ...... It's merely a healthy lack of respect which they haven't earned yet.

[VickMackie]

To be fair, its a bit ironic considering some of the moaning on here regarding the yam security guard who ended up getting suspended. That was equally as petty IMO.

Humour seems to be dying more and more in the game these days, its a real shame.

It's pathetic.

It's the same when a player gestures to the fans everyone starts greeting like bairns.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What a disgusting wee country we are turning into:boo hoo:

Seriously?

[J-C]

Calling them 'sevco' is not a crime ...... It's merely a healthy lack of respect which they haven't earned yet.


I never said it was, I use the name "sevco" all the time, was just answering the guys question as to why the article uses Rangers. Their old name of Glasgow Rangers was changed to The Rangers, dropping the " Glasgow".

[CropleyWasGod]

Why does the article talk about Rangers? They don't exist anymore.

They do, unfortunately.

[Scouse Hibee]

The fairly obvious difference is that Rangers weren't playing against Falkirk on Saturday. Every Hun that has complained must have heard about this second hand.

Just like every outraged Hibs fans who saw the cops gesture second hand then!

[joe breezy]

Good point.

My only reservation would be that further shares may have been issued since that date.

(I can't remember... do you still have to register share issues between Annual Returns? If so, and shares have been issued, maybe the issue hasn't been registered yet, or perhaps CH haven't published it.)

One also wonders how much TRFC Ltd. paid Sevco 5088 for the assets, and how that was financed? :cb

CWG, I have sent you a PM.

I have written an article on The Rangers for an new online football fanzine and would appreciate an expert eye giving it the once over to ensure it's accurate

Cheers

[Gatecrasher]

So there's no banter allowed in football anymore? The easily offended in the football grounds will squeeze the last bit of fun out of the game.

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG, I have sent you a PM.

I have written an article on The Rangers for an new online football fanzine and would appreciate an expert eye giving it the once over to ensure it's accurate

Cheers

Ooyah.... let me check that my Professional Indemnity Insurance is up to date first..... :greengrin

[jacomo]

So there's no banter allowed in football anymore? The easily offended in the football grounds will squeeze the last bit of fun out of the game.

Would be great if all Stadium announcers referred to them as Sevco this weekend in solidarity.

Sort of an "I'm Sparticus" moment, over tannoy.

[Kojock]

Difference is he is an announcer, who clearly supports Falkirk and works to an audience.

A copper, is a copper. They need to be above this. That said, a few coppers having a laugh with fans of the team he supports should not have been taken too seriously.

Anyone know any Hibby coppers?

J

Plenty :wink:

[joe breezy]

Ooyah.... let me check that my Professional Indemnity Insurance is up to date first..... :greengrin

Cheers, have emailed it, it's a fairly simple version of events so shouldn't be contentious but just wanted to check :)

[Hibercelona]

It's pathetic.

It's the same when a player gestures to the fans everyone starts greeting like bairns.

:agree:

It's give and take.

I like to see players having a bit of harmless banter with the fans. It noises them up and creates a better atmosphere.

With the way the rules are set up these days, it seems that players can't have any association with the fans whatsoever. They aren't even aloud to celebrate with their own fans!

[The Falcon]

Perhaps a template sent to as many fans websites with a link to a Falkirk contact, get people to counter the complaints.


Perhaps it should suggest that non Sevco fans might not be back if they discipline the guy for, basically, doing his job. Put the suggestion on other clubs meassage boards. :dunno:

[Franck Stanton]

I think the Falkirk announcer should be transferred to Hibs, would love it if he were to say the same at E/R.

[fatbloke]

Seriously?

Aye, we whine about silly we things like cops and announcers yet tolerate crime etc in our communities and say nowt. Disgusting mibbe a bit strong but ridiculous oh definitely.

[fatbloke]

Yep, we're a nation of sour puss'. The grey men have taken over and all colour is being squeezed out of life. As I recall that started in Wallyford :-)

John McGlynn and Jim Jefferies are both Wallyford born and bred. OOPS:greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Theres only a small amount of people moan about petty things like tannoy announcers or special constables making gestures, me i couldnae give a flying one, just like most others.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Plenty :wink:

One of them was leading the Sect43 boys astray in Leuven! ;-)

[suavegav]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/falkirk-suspend-matchday-announcer-over-rangers-sevco-jibes-1-2478375

It just goes to prove the old Chinese proverb is correct " the most easily offended are the most offensive". The so called fans of this club are unbelievable.

[darrenmcintosh2]

I absolutely love how the article explains what Castle Greyskull is. :faf:

Had to laugh completly nothing too do with the article

[goosefat]

Had to laugh completly nothing too do with the article

...and what about the comment response a few lines down:

"You sir...appear to have completely lost the plot....It looks like Rangers 1..CMS 0...Hissy fitting hoop fans are falling over themselves to lambast & insult Scotlands biggest club...world record holders...and...most famous...But 50,000 punters cant be wrong....more than every club in Britain bar Arsenal....more than the combines weekend attendances in Scotland...more than Celtic got on the opening day tainted title raiser at parkhead...face it....We are the people."

:crazy:

[Sodje_18]

Difference is he is an announcer, who clearly supports Falkirk and works to an audience.

A copper, is a copper. They need to be above this. That said, a few coppers having a laugh with fans of the team he supports should not have been taken too seriously.

Anyone know any Hibby coppers?

J
I seem to remember a copper in the East pissing himself laughing at the fans singing "we are the people" to wind up the Smellies, not really on the same level as the Yam pig, but I still found it funny.

[Sir David Gray]

Is it any worse than the cop showing 5-1 with hands to the yams at the recent derby game? Enough Hibbies got wound up over that .

Huge difference.

This guy is a tannoy announcer, these guys are normally supporters of the club that they work for and a few of them do a bit of radio work as well. They are well known for their quips and banter.

A police officer, on the other hand, particularly one that is on duty at the time, is supposed to be completely professional. They are there to keep the peace and ensure that the safety of the public is upheld. Making inflammatory gestures like the clown last week at Easter Road was extremely ill-advised and had the potential to cause a few problems.

I can't believe the two are even being compared to be honest.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this guy has been suspended and if it was me, I would tell them to stick their job and they couldn't suspend me because I resigned.

Seriously, if that is the worst example of misconduct that Falkirk FC has to deal with then they'll be doing well.

Oh and, by the way, I would love nothing more than if Sevco's fans were threatening a boycott of my stadium. I know we're not due to play them again for another three years (unless we get them in the cup) but is there no way that we could arrange for our announcer to throw a few insults at them so that we can get the same treatment?

Nothing would make me happier!

[IndieHibby]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but it would be a useful summary for those financially/legally illiterate:

To what extent do New Huns have laibility over the debt/tax avoidance/EBT of Old Huns? (appreciate this may be hard to know, but would appreciate a few bullet points of what we do/don't know)

Thanks in advance to anyone (anyone who knows what they are talking about :cb) who answers! :greengrin

[Greendub]

Is it any worse than the cop showing 5-1 with hands to the yams at the recent derby game? Enough Hibbies got wound up over that .

There is a difference between a stadium announcer and a policeman.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but it would be a useful summary for those financially/legally illiterate:

To what extent do New Huns have laibility over the debt/tax avoidance/EBT of Old Huns? (appreciate this may be hard to know, but would appreciate a few bullet points of what we do/don't know)

Thanks in advance to anyone (anyone who knows what they are talking about :cb) who answers! :greengrin

None, basically. That debt rests with the old company.

The directors of the old company may be held personally liable if they are found to have been "wrongfully trading", but that's it. Chucky can do walking away from that one.

[Scouse Hibee]

Huge difference.

This guy is a tannoy announcer, these guys are normally supporters of the club that they work for and a few of them do a bit of radio work as well. They are well known for their quips and banter.

A police officer, on the other hand, particularly one that is on duty at the time, is supposed to be completely professional. They are there to keep the peace and ensure that the safety of the public is upheld. Making inflammatory gestures like the clown last week at Easter Road was extremely ill-advised and had the potential to cause a few problems.

I can't believe the two are even being compared to be honest.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this guy has been suspended and if it was me, I would tell them to stick their job and they couldn't suspend me because I resigned.

Seriously, if that is the worst example of misconduct that Falkirk FC has to deal with then they'll be doing well.

Oh and, by the way, I would love nothing more than if Sevco's fans were threatening a boycott of my stadium. I know we're not due to play them again for another three years (unless we get them in the cup) but is there no way that we could arrange for our announcer to throw a few insults at them so that we can get the same treatment?

Nothing would make me happier!

A tannoy announcer who would know that he is not permitted in any way to broadcast anything that may be construed as derogatory to opposition fans whether they are in the stadium or not. So no more an excuse than the special constable had but they are both dropped in it by examples of over reaction from whinging fans............ pathetic!

[The_Exile]

This'll be the same club that play duelling banjo's before Dunfermline games and Gypsies Tramps and Thieves before Clyde games, they've sha* it here big time. Lost a bit of respect for them over this.

[greenginger]

None, basically. That debt rests with the old company.

The directors of the old company may be held personally liable if they are found to have been "wrongfully trading", but that's it. Chucky can do walking away from that one.

Whilst still claiming his Club have won 50 + league titles and saying he will fight to prevent any stripping of cheated title victories from his club cos his club has been punished enough !

[JeMeSouviens]

None, basically. That debt rests with the old company.

The directors of the old company may be held personally liable if they are found to have been "wrongfully trading", but that's it. Chucky can do walking away from that one.

This was correct until Chuckie did his dirty deal with Regan at the SFA.

Basically, New Huns is a new club, it bought the assets of the old club including its branding etc but it is not inherently liable for any of the debt or any punishments etc.

However, the SFA have bent their rule book to pretend that a club's identity can survive its death. The Chuck/Regan deal allows New Huns to assume some of the identity of Old Huns in exchange for some of the old club's liabilities. So, as I understand it, in exchange for being allowed to pretend to be Old Huns and therefore assume their membership of the SFA, New Huns have agreed to take on:

- the outstanding punishments of Old Huns, ie. £160K fine and a 1 year transfer embargo (although the start was delayed to effectively neuter the punishment).

- any future punishments arising from the SPL investigation of payments made outside registered contracts by Old Huns. I expect they will throw the toys out of the pram if there actually are any meaningful punishments though.

- "football debts", ie. the Lee Wallace money to Hearts, gate money owed to Celtic and D Utd. Not sure if it was just the debts owed to SFA members or whether Rapid Vienna etc will get their money as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

This was correct until Chuckie did his dirty deal with Regan at the SFA.

Basically, New Huns is a new club, it bought the assets of the old club including its branding etc but it is not inherently liable for any of the debt or any punishments etc.

However, the SFA have bent their rule book to pretend that a club's identity can survive its death. The Chuck/Regan deal allows New Huns to assume some of the identity of Old Huns in exchange for some of the old club's liabilities. So, as I understand it, in exchange for being allowed to pretend to be Old Huns and therefore assume their membership of the SFA, New Huns have agreed to take on:

- the outstanding punishments of Old Huns, ie. £160K fine and a 1 year transfer embargo (although the start was delayed to effectively neuter the punishment).

- any future punishments arising from the SPL investigation of payments made outside registered contracts by Old Huns. I expect they will throw the toys out of the pram if there actually are any meaningful punishments though.

- "football debts", ie. the Lee Wallace money to Hearts, gate money owed to Celtic and D Utd. Not sure if it was just the debts owed to SFA members or whether Rapid Vienna etc will get their money as well.

Whilst all that is correct, that wasn't the question.

The question was "To what extent do New Huns have laibility over the debt/tax avoidance/EBT of Old Huns?" That stays with the OldHun.

[ancienthibby]

Whilst all that is correct, that wasn't the question.

The question was "To what extent do New Huns have laibility over the debt/tax avoidance/EBT of Old Huns?" That stays with the OldHun.

Nice deflect there, Mr Croppers!:smokin

[JeMeSouviens]

Whilst all that is correct, that wasn't the question.

The question was "To what extent do New Huns have laibility over the debt/tax avoidance/EBT of Old Huns?" That stays with the OldHun.

True. It would be boring if we all stuck to just answering the question as asked though. :wink:

[hibs0666]

This was correct until Chuckie did his dirty deal with Regan at the SFA.

Basically, New Huns is a new club, it bought the assets of the old club including its branding etc but it is not inherently liable for any of the debt or any punishments etc.

However, the SFA have bent their rule book to pretend that a club's identity can survive its death. The Chuck/Regan deal allows New Huns to assume some of the identity of Old Huns in exchange for some of the old club's liabilities. So, as I understand it, in exchange for being allowed to pretend to be Old Huns and therefore assume their membership of the SFA, New Huns have agreed to take on:

- the outstanding punishments of Old Huns, ie. £160K fine and a 1 year transfer embargo (although the start was delayed to effectively neuter the punishment).

- any future punishments arising from the SPL investigation of payments made outside registered contracts by Old Huns. I expect they will throw the toys out of the pram if there actually are any meaningful punishments though.

- "football debts", ie. the Lee Wallace money to Hearts, gate money owed to Celtic and D Utd. Not sure if it was just the debts owed to SFA members or whether Rapid Vienna etc will get their money as well.

A club's identity doesn't sit in legal land, it sits in the hearts and minds of the supporters - the huns are what they are and the club will never die.

[CropleyWasGod]

True. It would be boring if we all stuck to just answering the question as asked though. :wink:

It might have cleared this whole freaking mess up months ago......


What a scary thought. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

A club's identity doesn't sit in legal land, it sits in the hearts and minds of the supporters - the huns are what they are and the club will never die.

That depends what you mean by identity. Airdrie Utd have the identity of Airdrieonians by your definition but the identity of the former Clydebank FC in the eyes of the football authorities. Both are correct in their own way.

[Sir David Gray]

A tannoy announcer who would know that he is not permitted in any way to broadcast anything that may be construed as derogatory to opposition fans whether they are in the stadium or not. So no more an excuse than the special constable had but they are both dropped in it by examples of over reaction from whinging fans............ pathetic!

I seem to remember the announcer at Rugby Park had a bit of banter with the Hibs fans when we were there a few years ago and it was all good natured. There were no calls to sack him or suspend him or hold any kind of inquiry into his conduct.

Seriously, if this guy had been really controversial and referred to them as the "Queen's XI" or the "Sons of William" or any other kind of derogatory name that many people have for Sevco and their Rangers predecessors then I could fully understand the anger towards this guy.

All he's done is refer to them by the name of the company that Charles Green specifically set up so that he could buy the new company. It's hardly something that's worthy of a suspension and, in my opinion, it is different from the incident with the police officer last week for the reasons I've already outlined.

[ronaldo7]

I never said it was, I use the name "sevco" all the time, was just answering the guys question as to why the article uses Rangers. Their old name of Glasgow Rangers was changed to The Rangers, dropping the " Glasgow".

:confused: Never known them as "Glasgow" Rangers.

Just thought they were Rangers Football Club ala the badge RFC.

Willing to be proved wrong though:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

:confused: Never known them as "Glasgow" Rangers.

Just thought they were Rangers Football Club ala the badge RFC.

Willing to be proved wrong though:cb

How does the song go??? :confused:

[ronaldo7]

How does the song go??? :confused:

Wallace Mercer six feet under:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Wallace Mercer six feet under:aok:

:na na:



Actually, I could (justifiably) start up a chorus of "You're no Sevco any more....".

[ronaldo7]

Back on topic.

They were not "Glasgow" Rangers...Just Rangers:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Back on topic.

They were not "Glasgow" Rangers...Just Rangers:aok:

I think they were only really known as Glasgow Rangers in Europe, in the same way that we were known as Edinburgh Hibernians.

[ronaldo7]

I think they were only really known as Glasgow Rangers in Europe, in the same way that we were known as Edinburgh Hibernians.

Or Huns, Orcs, and Pillagers.

[hibsbollah]

To be fair, its a bit ironic considering some of the moaning on here regarding the yam security guard who ended up getting suspended. That was equally as petty IMO.

Humour seems to be dying more and more in the game these days, its a real shame.

I agree. Which us why PC 5-1 didnt bother me in the slightest :greengrin I used to quite like the banter with the likes of Artur Boruc.

[Springbank]

:violin::whistle:
Oh and there's not a team like the Glasgow Rangers…
Just saying, not singing…



I think they were only really known as Glasgow Rangers in Europe, in the same way that we were known as Edinburgh Hibernians.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think they were only really known as Glasgow Rangers in Europe, in the same way that we were known as Edinburgh Hibernians.
Pedant alert!

Shirley you mean Hibernian Edinburgh and Rangers Glasgow?

At least that's how the Germans refer to us and them.

[hibs0666]

That depends what you mean by identity. Airdrie Utd have the identity of Airdrieonians by your definition but the identity of the former Clydebank FC in the eyes of the football authorities. Both are correct in their own way.

The Clydebank aspect might have been of some import 10 years ago, but is of only historical interest now. Airdrie supporters have their club, Clydebank supporters have their club and life goes on.

[Northernhibee]

The person that I think is most pathetic in all of this is Kevin Kyle. If you've got a lack of ambition and fancy a guaranteed way to have 40,000 orcs singing your name, then by all means head to Rangers.

But for a professional SPL footballer to accept a paycheque to sit on a division 3 bench all season? It's beyond belief.

[WindyMiller]

Pedant alert!

Shirley you mean Hibernian Edinburgh and Rangers Glasgow?

At least that's how the Germans refer to us and them.

The Dutch referred to them as Glasgow (no mention of Rangers), and their other half as Celtic.

[lucky]

The person that I think is most pathetic in all of this is Kevin Kyle. If you've got a lack of ambition and fancy a guaranteed way to have 40,000 orcs singing your name, then by all means head to Rangers.

But for a professional SPL footballer to accept a paycheque to sit on a division 3 bench all season? It's beyond belief.

Don't accept this, he was unemployed and was tarting himself round clubs. He has his family and himself to look after. He took the best offer on the table, at his age and injury plagued career I find it impossible to slaughter him for making this decision.

[VickMackie]

The person that I think is most pathetic in all of this is Kevin Kyle. If you've got a lack of ambition and fancy a guaranteed way to have 40,000 orcs singing your name, then by all means head to Rangers.

But for a professional SPL footballer to accept a paycheque to sit on a division 3 bench all season? It's beyond belief.

Why? He will probably get top medical treatment. A guaranteed wage that exceeds most, Or all spl clubs, and potentially a medal.

He's finished as a top level professional. It's actually the perfect move for him.

[magpie1892]

...and what about the comment response a few lines down:

"You sir...appear to have completely lost the plot....It looks like Rangers 1..CMS 0...Hissy fitting hoop fans are falling over themselves to lambast & insult Scotlands biggest club...world record holders...and...most famous...But 50,000 punters cant be wrong....more than every club in Britain bar Arsenal....more than the combines weekend attendances in Scotland...more than Celtic got on the opening day tainted title raiser at parkhead...face it....We are the people."

:crazy:

As was pointed out before the match even took place, Newcastle bettered huns' attendance by 3,000 at the weekend.

[The Green Goblin]

Just my opinion mate but "DOBS" doesn't have any place on this board

What does it stand for? (can you pm me if not appropriate?)

Thanks!

[linlithgowhibbie]

What does it stand for? (can you pm me if not appropriate?)

Thanks!


PM :pfgwasent

[The Green Goblin]

PM :pfgwasent

Thanks. Yes, I agree with you completely. That's a stupid thing to say. No place for it on here, as you said. Cheers

[StevieC]

As was pointed out before the match even took place, Newcastle bettered huns' attendance by 3,000 at the weekend.

And was always going to ...

For Sally to think that the Huns would better it shows his lack of knowledge when opening his mouth. I reckon you'll be hard pressed to see a league game at St James' that will actually be less than the biggest crowd at Ibrox.

[JeMeSouviens]

Dundee United v Rangers 10/9/2011 att. 10156

Dundee United v Dundee 18/8/2012 att. 13538

Where's your armageddon now, Regan and Doncaster? :rolleyes: Muppets!

[lapsedhibee]

Dundee United v Rangers 10/9/2011 att. 10156

Dundee United v Dundee 18/8/2012 att. 13538

Where's your armageddon now, Regan and Doncaster? :rolleyes: Muppets!

Not really a fair contrast without taking into account the collateral economic benefits of having the huns in town. Where are the figures for sales of Buckfast in the Tannadeechee area on matchday?

Still muppets though. :agree:

[LeighLoyal]

Dundee United v Rangers 10/9/2011 att. 10156

Dundee United v Dundee 18/8/2012 att. 13538

Where's your armageddon now, Regan and Doncaster? :rolleyes: Muppets!



The only armageddon I can see is the one at Mordor where Rangers FC went down in a towering inferno of unpaid taxes and skullduggery. Now to be called the Sevco Franchise 2012 until they go bust again - hopefully soon, the shameless crooks. :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Armageddon? Armageddon??


Armageddon sick of this talk about armageddon.

Regan gets positive

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/stewart-regan-reveals-possible-huge-european-tv-cash-boost-1-2482945

[Onion]

Armageddon? Armageddon??


Armageddon sick of this talk about armageddon.

Regan gets positive

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/stewart-regan-reveals-possible-huge-european-tv-cash-boost-1-2482945

The fact this man is still in his job, is an insult to the game and embarrassment to Scotland.

[StevieC]

Armageddon? Armageddon??


Armageddon sick of this talk about armageddon.

Regan gets positive

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/stewart-regan-reveals-possible-huge-european-tv-cash-boost-1-2482945

So Regan can see how a more even split of the Internationals TV money can benefit the game in Scotland .. yet continues to ignore the fact that a more even split of TV money in the domestic leagues could also benefit the game in Scotland!

Also states that talks have been ongoing, yet failed to mention this when the Rangers debacle was playing out.

How Regan, Doncaster (who has gone very quiet) and Ogilvie are still employed is beyond belief.

[Leithenhibby]

So Regan can see how a more even split of the Internationals TV money can benefit the game in Scotland .. yet continues to ignore the fact that a more even split of TV money in the domestic leagues could also benefit the game in Scotland!

Also states that talks have been ongoing, yet failed to mention this when the Rangers debacle was playing out.

How Regan, Doncaster (who has gone very quiet) and Ogilvie are still employed is beyond belief.

:agree: Spot on Mr.


For such a small post, this pretty much covers all my (and most fans, I'd think) thoughts on the state of our game.

It's such a shame that people like this are killing our game a slow death. Time for change! but how.......

[Phil D. Rolls]

Good grief the comedian's a bear!
No he's not he's a wearing a neck a tie!

8611

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if this has been mentioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19338654

For me, it's a sign that TRFC are doing their sums. Two wages off the books, and the chance of a fee for Edu. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple more high earners are off next week, too.

[ballengeich]

Not sure if this has been mentioned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19338654

For me, it's a sign that TRFC are doing their sums. Two wages off the books, and the chance of a fee for Edu. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple more high earners are off next week, too.

I think they'll get rid of as many as they can of the oldco's players except for McCulloch who has a similar symbolic status to the manager's (for the moment). The players who've stayed are the ones who couldn't get the same money anywhere else (mistaken for loyalty by the fans) so further loans deals may be needed.

I reckon the oldco was losing up to £10million in seasons it didn't get into the Champions' League. The Newco's gate income is down quite a bit due to the reduced prices even if the numbers don't drop. Adding in the loss of SPL prize money, media income and a likely drop in other corporate sponsorship there's a big operating deficit to be eliminated. Up to £20 million?

I don't know how much of it has gone with the departure of the big earners (shame about the lack of transfer fees for most of them:greengrin), but it'll have taken out a fair proportion. I expect that after the transfer window is over and the season ticket money is safely banked there'll be a fairly brutal redundancy exercise to get costs down further. I don't see how it would be in the Green group's interest to have another administration so I expect them to make whatever cuts they need to in order to avoid that. Selling it to the fans will be an interesting PR challenge. Getting the support in next season might be more difficult than this.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think they'll get rid of as many as they can of the oldco's players except for McCulloch who has a similar symbolic status to the manager's (for the moment). The players who've stayed are the ones who couldn't get the same money anywhere else (mistaken for loyalty by the fans) so further loans deals may be needed.

I reckon the oldco was losing up to £10million in seasons it didn't get into the Champions' League. The Newco's gate income is down quite a bit due to the reduced prices even if the numbers don't drop. Adding in the loss of SPL prize money, media income and a likely drop in other corporate sponsorship there's a big operating deficit to be eliminated. Up to £20 million?

I don't know how much of it has gone with the departure of the big earners (shame about the lack of transfer fees for most of them:greengrin), but it'll have taken out a fair proportion. I expect that after the transfer window is over and the season ticket money is safely banked there'll be a fairly brutal redundancy exercise to get costs down further. I don't see how it would be in the Green group's interest to have another administration so I expect them to make whatever cuts they need to in order to avoid that. Selling it to the fans will be an interesting PR challenge. Getting the support in next season might be more difficult than this.

I do wonder (indeed, was thinking it when all the TUPE stuff was going on) whether some of those players were "induced" to stay... ie "stay here a couple of months. We won't be hard to deal with if a new club comes along, and you'll get a better signing-on fee from them as a result". That way TRFC get money that they wouldn't have, had the player walked when they had the right to.

[LeighLoyal]

Regan still planning to fast track Sevco 2012 into an spl2 next year. We should be fighting against this with every fibre. Reconstruction for the good of Sevco 2012, not the law abiding, honest clubs who pay their bills and meet the queen's taxes! Just say NO to cheats! Say NO to Sevco! :aok:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2192271/Rangers-fas-tracked-second-tier.html

[hibs0666]

Regan still planning to fast track Sevco 2012 into an spl2 next year. We should be fighting against this with every fibre. Reconstruction for the good of Sevco 2012, not the law abiding, honest clubs who pay their bills and meet the queen's taxes! Just say NO to cheats! Say NO to Sevco! :aok:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2192271/Rangers-fas-tracked-second-tier.html

Why? Punters are not bailing out their teams in the way they said they would. :confused:

[Onion]

Regan still planning to fast track Sevco 2012 into an spl2 next year. We should be fighting against this with every fibre. Reconstruction for the good of Sevco 2012, not the law abiding, honest clubs who pay their bills and meet the queen's taxes! Just say NO to cheats! Say NO to Sevco! :aok:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2192271/Rangers-fas-tracked-second-tier.html

:agree: And since I'm in a petty mood, we should immediately replace "Rangers" in all our songs with another team. Heard the Yam songs last night including "Rangers" and thought that was just wrong.

The best way of sticking it to Sevco is to ignore them entirely.. oh, and take the songs of the Old Co.

"We are the peepul" would be a good start.
"We hate ??????? ???????, we hate Celtic too, we hate......"

[green glory]

We hate Glasgow Sevco,
We hate Celtic too etc.

[CropleyWasGod]

You can understand the reluctance for clubs to spend this year as going by the previous outcry by supporters, many will walk away if this happens.
Many probably have already as those in charge seem determined to kill off the game.

Still, the transfer embargo will soon kick in meaning they can't sign more players.
Of course neither will any other team as the transfer window will be closed.

Every charge against The Rangers should include Regan as an accomplice.

Other clubs can sign free agents. Rangers can't.

[green glory]

More lies from Greeny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19376352

[CropleyWasGod]

More lies from Greeny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19376352

Is it lies, though?

Whilst it's true that TRFC Ltd. had 2 shares initially, both held by Green, it is possible that further shares have been issued subsequently. When I last looked, that issue hadn't been registered at Companies House, but that doesn't mean that they haven't been issued.

Given the figures quoted, it suggests that £11m has been raised from shares. Adding the season ticket sales to that, say 33k x £150, £5m, and a few transfer fees, that's working capital of about £17m or so.

Enough to keep 'em going?

[Kaiser1962]

Is it lies, though?

Whilst it's true that TRFC Ltd. had 2 shares initially, both held by Green, it is possible that further shares have been issued subsequently. When I last looked, that issue hadn't been registered at Companies House, but that doesn't mean that they haven't been issued.

Given the figures quoted, it suggests that £11m has been raised from shares. Adding the season ticket sales to that, say 33k x £150, £5m, and a few transfer fees, that's working capital of about £17m or so.

Enough to keep 'em going?


Rangers running costs, whilst in the SPL, was close to £60m per season. Expenditure over the last 11 seasons, during which they werent really paying full taxes either, was £656m, of which just over half (£332m)was wages.

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers running costs, whilst in the SPL, was close to £60m per season. Expenditure over the last 11 seasons, during which they werent really paying full taxes either, was £656m, of which just over half (£332m)was wages.

Zattanaw then? :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Zattanaw then? :greengrin

The figures include an overspend of £85m during the same period, but dont include £49m avoided through a poorly operated EBT scam, or the VAT they collected from their fans, but didnt pay.

[CropleyWasGod]

The figures include an overspend of £85m during the same period, but dont include £49m avoided through a poorly operated EBT scam, or the VAT they collected from their fans, but didnt pay.

Och, the fans' share issue will see them all right.

:rolleyes:

[grunt]

New progress report in from D&P

http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/staticcontent/documents/administratorsinformation/Rangers%20-%20Progress%20Report%20-%2024%20August%202012.PDF

FTT result "expected in September".

[Kaiser1962]

Och, the fans' share issue will see them all right.

:rolleyes:

Of course it will. The 2004 issue went really well raising the grand total of £51,430,995 after Rangers debts hit £73.9m as of June 30th 2004. His intention was to raise £57m so Murray claimed the issue a success.

Thats the figure the Huns told us that the issue raised but Murray was left to pay for (or did he? :greengrin) £50,275,000 of the total. So only £1,155,995 was brought in externally, despite the enormous hype at the time.

Of that external total (outwith Murray/Murray Group (probably BOS, no wonder they went tits up)) only £307,530 came from new shareholders (1,263 orcs parted with their giro's)

Existing shareholders accounted for the other £848,565.

[LeighLoyal]

Of course it will. The 2004 issue went really well raising the grand total of £51,430,995 after Rangers debts hit £73.9m as of June 30th 2004. His intention was to raise £57m so Murray claimed the issue a success.

Thats the figure the Huns told us that the issue raised but Murray was left to pay for (or did he? :greengrin) £50,275,000 of the total. So only £1,155,995 was brought in externally, despite the enormous hype at the time.

Of that external total (outwith Murray/Murray Group (probably BOS, no wonder they went tits up)) only £307,530 came from new shareholders (1,263 orcs parted with their giro's)

Existing shareholders accounted for the other £848,565.


And that 50.275m came direct from Skinty's pals in Bank of Scotland, albeit via a Murray Group account. The pals that gave him the money to buy the Orcs in 88. Sweet eh? And Labour fuds gave him a knighthood :confused:

[jgl07]

It is nearly 45 years since the fampus cup clash of the two Rangers in Scottish football.

Then Jock Wallace's Rangers beat the bigots from Ibrox 1-0.

To paraphrase Alan Partridge, Sevco are the team that Rangers could have gone on to become!

[Kaiser1962]

And that 50.275m came direct from Skinty's pals in Bank of Scotland, albeit via a Murray Group account. The pals that gave him the money to buy the Orcs in 88. Sweet eh? And Labour fuds gave him a knighthood :confused:


To be fair the money is still probably owed by Murray Group so the BOS, technically, have not lost the money..............................yet.

[green glory]

Lee Wallace was in my gym this morning. Looks even more gormless up close.

[jgl07]

And that 50.275m came direct from Skinty's pals in Bank of Scotland, albeit via a Murray Group account. The pals that gave him the money to buy the Orcs in 88. Sweet eh? And Labour fuds gave him a knighthood :confused:

Who from BoS received a knighthood?

You are obviously thinking of him from the RBS.

[jamieross]

Who from BoS received a knighthood?

You are obviously thinking of him from the RBS.

Think hes on about Murray :agree:

[Jim44]

The natives on FF are getting restless over the way things are going. McCoist's lack of ability is starting to outweigh his blind loyalty and Boccanegra is being pilloried for wearing green and white boots on Saturday.

[lapsedhibee]

The natives on FF are getting restless over the way things are going. McCoist's lack of ability is starting to outweigh his blind loyalty and Boccanegra is being pilloried for wearing green and white boots on Saturday.

So good that, in spite of all the turmoil their two clubs have been through so far, huns have kept a firm mental hold on what's important. :agree:

[stokesmessiah]

What i found quite bizarre was Fat Sally saying he was so mortified by the result yesterday that he is going to go out and buy some more players before the window closes. Personally i was be more ashamed at myself at not being able to put out a team capable of beating p/t players.

[easty]

What i found quite bizarre was Fat Sally saying he was so mortified by the result yesterday that he is going to go out and buy some more players before the window closes. Personally i was be more ashamed at myself at not being able to put out a team capable of beating p/t players.

Thats what I was just thinking, just read Sally saying he wanted more players. He's a plum.

It's sort of like putting an eejit in the best F1 car to race against a group of lads on on bmx's. Then when you lose the race cos you're a fat incompetant idiot who cant get any sort of performance out of the car, you complain that it's because you need a new engine.

His tactical genius at the weekend seemed to be 'let's swap the wingers over to play on the opposite sides'. I used to do that on Champ Man 98! I didnt think real life footie management was so simple.

[stokesmessiah]

Thats what I was just thinking, just read Sally saying he wanted more players. He's a plum.

It's sort of like putting an eejit in the best F1 car to race against a group of lads on on bmx's. Then when you lose the race cos you're a fat incompetant idiot who cant get any sort of performance out of the car, you complain that it's because you need a new engine.

His tactical genius at the weekend seemed to be 'let's swap the wingers over to play on the opposite sides'. I used to do that on Champ Man 98! I didnt think real life footie management was so simple.

Just had a gander over on Hunmedia and there are some on their slating his tactical nous. A big complaint being made is one we have all been used to up until recently...playing players out of position. They lined up with 3 CB's and a LB (in RB slot) on Sunday.

[LeighLoyal]

The Berwick goal that Tumilty chopped off really does stink. Imagine the howling mad dog hordes if that had been at the other end, f*nian, papal conspiracy's etc... Utter Sevco sc um. I hope Sally signs more duds to go with the ones he has, seriously bad players all of them. I also hope the guys on huge money like McCulloch don't get moves. The fact they rely on a corrupt decision to get a point against a team of window cleaners tells you all you need to know about Sally and his duds. :agree:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Just had a gander over on Hunmedia and there are some on their slating his tactical nous. A big complaint being made is one we have all been used to up until recently...playing players out of position. They lined up with 3 CB's and a LB (in RB slot) on Sunday.

Thing is, Sevco should be able to play 10 strikers, or 10 right backs, and still win these games comfortably

[JeMeSouviens]

The Berwick goal that Tumilty chopped off really does stink. Imagine the howling mad dog hordes if that had been at the other end, f*nian, papal conspiracy's etc... Utter Sevco sc um. I hope Sally signs more duds to go with the ones he has, seriously bad players all of them. I also hope the guys on huge money like McCulloch don't get moves. The fact they rely on a corrupt decision to get a point against a team of window cleaners tells you all you need to know about Sally and his duds. :agree:

Shocking decision. :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCTm2niL-A

[JeMeSouviens]

Just had a gander over on Hunmedia and there are some on their slating his tactical nous. A big complaint being made is one we have all been used to up until recently...playing players out of position. They lined up with 3 CB's and a LB (in RB slot) on Sunday.

Don't know what they're moaning about: Ally has them right in the hunt for the play offs. :wink::greengrin:aok:

[Keith_M]

I also read the quote from Fat Sally and thought that sums up him and his club quite well. They have players at that club that earn more than the average turnover of any of those Div3 outfits but his answer to not being able to beat a bunch of part-timers is he needs more quality on the pitch, i.e. more money to spend.

Isn't that how your club's previous incarnation got into trouble in the first place? Have you learned nothing?

[ScottB]

I also read the quote from Fat Sally and thought that sums up him and his club quite well. They have players at that club that earn more than the average turnover of any of those Div3 outfits but his answer to not being able to beat a bunch of part-timers is he needs more quality on the pitch, i.e. more money to spend.

Isn't that how your club's previous incarnation got into trouble in the first place? Have you learned nothing?

Oh come on :wink:

Ally's status as Lord and Saviour of Rangers is definitely starting to slip. They'll turn on him soon enough, no doubt begging for Uncle Wattie to return.

To react to a series of poor performances against guys who spend their weeks working like the rest of us by demanding yet more professional, vastly higher paid players sums it all up. There is an attitude problem from top to bottom at the club, and he doesn't have the tools to change it.

[Tynie01011973]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8026785/

HTF is this tw@t allowed to carry on in office and now speaking about call for change having nothing to do with Sevco FC being fast-tracked back to SPL

:grr:

[PatHead]

Scottish football does need to change and if an unfortunate side effect is Newco benefitting that is a shame but change should not be held up just to make Newco suffer. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

In any event they will probably be bust again by then and demoted to West of Scotland league this time.:greengrin

[s.a.m]

Charles Paterson‏@charlesp_sky#SSN (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SSN) learns Rangers defender Kirk Broadfoot has agreed in principle to be released from the club

[StevieC]

Scottish football does need to change and if an unfortunate side effect is Newco benefitting that is a shame but change should not be held up just to make Newco suffer. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I was just about to say the same.

We've been shouting out for a larger league, and it seems the best way to do that would be an amalgamating 4 divisions into 3 with larger divisions.

We'd just be cutting our noses to spite our face if we tried to object on the basis that Sevco might reach the top division a little bit quicker.

Of course it could mean that Sevco get themselves promoted into division 2 .. only to find that division two has then become the bottom league again :wink:


EDIT: sorry, forgot to add that I agree with the opening sentiment regarding: president, tw*t, and still in office

[matty_f]

Scottish football does need to change and if an unfortunate side effect is Newco benefitting that is a shame but change should not be held up just to make Newco suffer. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

In any event they will probably be bust again by then and demoted to West of Scotland league this time.:greengrin

:agree: I think football in Scotland needs to move on now and if sevco benefit from a much needed change then so be it. Lets not cut our noses off to spite our face.

[Pretty Boy]

:agree: I think football in Scotland needs to move on now and if sevco benefit from a much needed change then so be it. Lets not cut our noses off to spite our face.

Exactly. Most fans have wanted change for years, we can't suddenly change our minds because it might benefit Rangers.

If a side effect of Rangers demise is a radical and much needed overhaul of Scottish football then I'm all for it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Charles Paterson‏@charlesp_sky#SSN (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SSN) learns Rangers defender Kirk Broadfoot has agreed in principle to be released from the club

More cost-cutting. Edu, Goian and now Clubfoot. I said it last week, there will be a few more out the door next week.

Bocanegra next?

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh come on :wink:

Ally's status as Lord and Saviour of Rangers is definitely starting to slip. They'll turn on him soon enough, no doubt begging for Uncle Wattie to return.

To react to a series of poor performances against guys who spend their weeks working like the rest of us by demanding yet more professional, vastly higher paid players sums it all up. There is an attitude problem from top to bottom at the club, and he doesn't have the tools to change it.

Thing is, if the BBC report from last week is to be believed, McCoist has a substantial stake in the club. He is locked-in to a certain extent.

[ballengeich]

More cost-cutting. Edu, Goian and now Clubfoot. I said it last week, there will be a few more out the door next week.

Bocanegra next?

I posted my agreement with you last week. What I hadn't appreciated was Green's financial ability. I'd expected transfers and loan deals. It wouldn't have occurred to me to open the front door of Ibrox, throw out an imaginary stick with a cry of "fetch" and see Broadfoot head into the distance.

I also forecast mass redundancies. I think they'll be deferred until the share issue is well under way.

[jacomo]

If the authorities had made the correct decision re: Rangers in the first place, without all the damaging delay, it would make this vital reconstruction easier and less open to criticism.

[ballengeich]

Whatever the reconstruction is, clubs should know at the start of a season what they're playing for. There should not be a change at the start of next season. In 2013-14 clubs can play for their places in the 2014-15 season. That could still mean The Rangers in the SPL in two years rather than three, but it would at least be a result of open competition.

[Spike Mandela]

A 3 league reconstruction was never going to Happen if Oldco had stayed in the SPL. The SPL's preferred option was a 10 team league as espoused by our own moustachiod one so all his crap about this been a year long discussion is just ,well err more lies from Mr Ogilvie EBT.

League reconstruction is now high up the agenda for one reason only, Newco, and if the rest of the clubs have any balls any agreement should be reached to start when Sevco have completed their 3 year sojourn.

[Sir David Gray]

A 3 league reconstruction was never going to Happen if Oldco had stayed in the SPL. The SPL's preferred option was a 10 team league as espoused by our own moustachiod one so all his crap about this been a year long discussion is just ,well err more lies from Mr Ogilvie EBT.

League reconstruction is now high up the agenda for one reason only, Newco, and if the rest of the clubs have any balls any agreement should be reached to start when Sevco have completed their 3 year sojourn.

Yup.

Totally agree. :agree:

We would never be hearing a peep out of the authorities about this league reconstruction if this whole situation with Sevco hadn't happened.

[lucky]

Fat Sally recommended Claros to Hibs when they could not afford him, tells you how much he knows about football

[JIm]

Yup.

Totally agree. :agree:

We would never be hearing a peep out of the authorities about this league reconstruction if this whole situation with Sevco hadn't happened.

Its been high on Regans agenda ever since he started the job, look back at the SFA's 2020 vision from over a year ago and you'll find lots of plans for this to happen. The fact that it was publicised when Rangers hit the **** was pure media hype making it out to be something new and recent.

[HoboHarry]

Fat Sally recommended Claros to Hibs when they could not afford him, tells you how much he knows about football
Don't really know what you mean by that. You think Claros isn't much of a player?

[LeighLoyal]

I'm not sure Sally will be at Sevco much longer to recommend players. Gweenie is going to sh it himself if they don't beat Elgin and I see it as a distinct possibility going by Berwick. :agree: Forgive the oxymoron, but going by Orc Media the Sevconians are already revolting.

[Hibs07p]

A 3 league reconstruction was never going to Happen if Oldco had stayed in the SPL. The SPL's preferred option was a 10 team league as espoused by our own moustachiod one so all his crap about this been a year long discussion is just ,well err more lies from Mr Ogilvie EBT.

League reconstruction is now high up the agenda for one reason only, Newco, and if the rest of the clubs have any balls any agreement should be reached to start when Sevco have completed their 3 year sojourn.

Totally agree, and I think the SFL clubs will ensure it happens. They will all want a bit of Sevcos income stream as they "glide effortlessly" up through the divisions. It could be so beneficial to them financially, the SFL might want to keep them, as shown by Peterhead & Berwick. :greengrin

[Jack]

Charles Paterson‏@charlesp_sky#SSN (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SSN) learns Rangers defender Kirk Broadfoot has agreed in principle to be released from the club

Is there a suggestion there that he's not good enough for division 3 football? Something a lot of us have suggested for a while. :greengrin


If the authorities had made the correct decision re: Rangers in the first place, without all the damaging delay, it would make this vital reconstruction easier and less open to criticism.

The authorities couldn’t do much more, any quicker than they did. The time wasting was duff and duffer who saw this as a ploy to get that club over the finish line last season; saving that club but shafting everyone and everything they have ever touched in the process.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Is there a suggestion there that he's not good enough for division 3 football? Something a lot of us have suggested for a while. :greengrin



The authorities couldn’t do much more, any quicker than they did. The time wasting was duff and duffer who saw this as a ploy to get that club over the finish line last season; saving that club but shafting everyone and everything they have ever touched in the process.

:agree:

They couldn't really do anything before June 14, when the CVA was voted down. If by some miracle it had been voted through then there wouldn't have been any difference between Rangers and other clubs that have been through administration. Almost all of the delay after that was caused by constitutional requirements, giving 14 days notice of meetings and crap like that.

[PatHead]

A 3 league reconstruction was never going to Happen if Oldco had stayed in the SPL. The SPL's preferred option was a 10 team league as espoused by our own moustachiod one so all his crap about this been a year long discussion is just ,well err more lies from Mr Ogilvie EBT.

League reconstruction is now high up the agenda for one reason only, Newco, and if the rest of the clubs have any balls any agreement should be reached to start when Sevco have completed their 3 year sojourn.

Don't agree.

The Old Rangers with their sidekicks from the other side of Glasgow managed to ruin Scottish football over the last 3 decades. By delaying any changes to get on Rangers nerves would mean Newco were once again holding Scottish football back. This can't happen even if they are benefitting from any changes.

One geverning body, League re-construction, re-introduction of proper reserve teams, summer football etc should all be considered, voted upon and implemented as soon as possible.

[Just Alf]

Don't agree.

The Old Rangers with their sidekicks from the other side of Glasgow managed to ruin Scottish football over the last 3 decades. By delaying any changes to get on Rangers nerves would mean Newco were once again holding Scottish football back. This can't happen even if they are benefitting from any changes.

One geverning body, League re-construction, re-introduction of proper reserve teams, summer football etc should all be considered, voted upon and implemented as soon as possible.

:top marks ..... if it means Sevco back in the top flight a year earlier then so be it.... small price to pay if we get what we want... finally

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm not sure reconstruction would have to benefit Sevco. The most likely change is 4 divisions to 3. If we assume even Fat Sally can't fail to get his SPL all-stars promoted from Div 3 anyway, then they only gain anything if they get to go directly into the new 2nd tier.

Say we go from 12-10-10-10 to 14-14-14. You can imagine 1 down from and 3 up to the top division. So then the second tier has 1 coming down and it's lost 3 clubs that got promoted, so it needs 6 other clubs . Would we normally expect the winner of the current Div3 to jump past that many clubs? I don't think so.

I imagine they got the idea from the relaunched Fiorentina Viola which got to jump directly from Serie C2 to Serie B as Serie B was enlarged. Once again the Muppets are failing to factor in fan sentiment. I doubt there is that much ill feeling from fans of other Italian clubs to Fiorentina, certainly nothing like the scale of ours for the cuddly Huns.

Every attempted Sevco stitch up (apart from the fast track to Div 3) has been torpedoed by the weight of fan opinion. Can't see that being any different this time?

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm not as happy at this as some. I believe that this is a flawed agenda constructed by the corrupt and discredited individuals, constructed again to get back to a short-term unworkable status quo asap.

The three things the fans want:

1. Fairer voting structure

2. More equitable distribution of TV money

3. 16 or 18 team senior league with each team playing each other twice (not four TV gerrymandered OF league games)

should be on the table from the start. Otherwise is there any point in going through another farce, constructed by Stuart "riots in the streets" Reagan to solely exonerate himself, and watching him look more of an incompetent prick than ever?

I'd say, yes talk about it now, and draw up an action plan to be implemented in five years time, once RFC in its different forms has served its punishment. We've tolerated inertia long enough, we shouldn't be in a big rush to be dynamic just because Reagan wants the old status quo asap. If he is running things the objective will be to get right back to where we were last season, with no real change.

Clubs competing for 2nd place is marginally more interesting than clubs competing for third place for the rest of us; anything else is just to serve OF interests.

[LeighLoyal]

I'd rather Sevco serve their time in the lower leagues, I don't see why there should be any big changes when we've just agreed a five year TV deal. Sevco have three years, maybe more going by how sh it they are, before we'll see them in the SPL. There should be no rush. Whatever club gets second in the SPL and collects the prize money that would have been oldco's or Celtic's, well done.

[Caversham Green]

I'm not sure reconstruction would have to benefit Sevco. The most likely change is 4 divisions to 3. If we assume even Fat Sally can't fail to get his SPL all-stars promoted from Div 3 anyway, then they only gain anything if they get to go directly into the new 2nd tier.

Say we go from 12-10-10-10 to 14-14-14. You can imagine 1 down from and 3 up to the top division. So then the second tier has 1 coming down and it's lost 3 clubs that got promoted, so it needs 6 other clubs . Would we normally expect the winner of the current Div3 to jump past that many clubs? I don't think so.

I imagine they got the idea from the relaunched Fiorentina Viola which got to jump directly from Serie C2 to Serie B as Serie B was enlarged. Once again the Muppets are failing to factor in fan sentiment. I doubt there is that much ill feeling from fans of other Italian clubs to Fiorentina, certainly nothing like the scale of ours for the cuddly Huns.

Every attempted Sevco stitch up (apart from the fast track to Div 3) has been torpedoed by the weight of fan opinion. Can't see that being any different this time?

That's how I'm seeing it as well.

By any logical arangement the new bottom tier would consist of all 10 Div 3 clubs (including Sevco) plus the bottom four of Div 2. The middle tier would be the top six Div 2 clubs plus eight Div 1 clubs and the top two Div 1 clubs would be promoted to the top tier. As you say one down and three up to the top league could be considered fair enough, but giving the Div 3 winners preference over half of Div 2 could not be justified.

[Bighoose]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/turnbull-hutton-the-riled-rover.18705225

Raith Chairman, Turnbull Hutton talking more sense once again. Gets tore into McCoist, Uncle Wattie, etc.. and Stewart Regan gets both barrels...

"I'm not a fan of Stewart Regan. Nothing he has done has given me any assurance that he's the right man for the job. Whatever was wrong with Scottish football in the past, and there was plenty, Ernie Walker and Jim Farry were at matches up and down the country. You got a chance to speak to them and they were happy to talk about the issues. Now we have a guy running Scottish football and he's never at a game on a Saturday. It was a bad judgment call for him to come wading into this issue. When did the SFA ever weigh into an SPL row before? Regan saw it as an opportunity to show he was in charge, but he messed it up totally."

[JimBHibees]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/turnbull-hutton-the-riled-rover.18705225

Raith Chairman, Turnbull Hutton talking more sense once again. Gets tore into McCoist, Uncle Wattie, etc.. and Stewart Regan gets both barrels...

"I'm not a fan of Stewart Regan. Nothing he has done has given me any assurance that he's the right man for the job. Whatever was wrong with Scottish football in the past, and there was plenty, Ernie Walker and Jim Farry were at matches up and down the country. You got a chance to speak to them and they were happy to talk about the issues. Now we have a guy running Scottish football and he's never at a game on a Saturday. It was a bad judgment call for him to come wading into this issue. When did the SFA ever weigh into an SPL row before? Regan saw it as an opportunity to show he was in charge, but he messed it up totally."

The two most worrying aspects to me were the following:

The chairman accuses McCoist of "grandstanding" in demanding to know the names of the three-man judiciary panel, including Drysdale, who handed Rangers their original 12-month transfer ban. Their identities were already known to the Ibrox club.

and

Hutton was in the room when a motion of no confidence in the SFA chief executive was proposed and seconded, only for SFL president Jim Ballantyne to veto the vote.

Absolutely incredible IMO.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Sally linked with the Coventry job on Football Rumours (I know!), it would be amusing though.

[cabbageandribs1875]

oooooh campbell ogilvie is still alive after all :(


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/campbell-ogilvie-rangers-wont-be-back-1283189



Rangers’ new signing Sebastien Faure revealed at the weekend that gaffer McCoist expects the club to be back in the SPL in two years instead of three.

Ogilvie said: “I read that but you’d have to ask Rangers about it. The leagues will decide what the structure is.

why does sally think that :confused:




And he dismissed any notion Ally McCoist’s side could be back in the top flight within a year.

Asked if reconstruction was being put through for Rangers’ benefit he said: “I can categorically take that out of the equation.

[Golden Bear]

Local Radio reporting that official complaints were made to the Police and football authorities following sectarian singing by Sevco fans at Berwick last weekend.

That's not like them.

:rolleyes:

[CabbageBoy]

Local Radio reporting that official complaints were made to the Police and football authorities following sectarian singing by Sevco fans at Berwick last weekend.

That's not like them.

:rolleyes:

Interesting bit of law there; its a regulated Scottish game, so sectarian signing in a pub or other public place showing the game on TV is covered by the new legislation and they could be fined for it, but unless they were signing loud enough to be heard back over the border, those at the game can do what they like (subject to English law).

[WindyMiller]

Local Radio reporting that official complaints were made to the Police and football authorities following sectarian singing by Sevco fans at Berwick last weekend.

That's not like them.

:rolleyes:

Not the first............http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=fined%20for%20sectarian%2C%20rangers&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.stv.tv%2Ftayside%2F187750-rangers-fan-sang-sectarian-chants-at-clubs-first-match-since-liquidation%2F&ei=smo-UIhAjOe1BrK9gJAO&usg=AFQjCNEumK7G4PWB1cCXZfFoJ72JCNveQA

Won't be the last.

We all know our Club and many others would ban this man for life.

What will the Hun do?

(rhetorical question).

[CropleyWasGod]

Thing is, if the BBC report from last week is to be believed, McCoist has a substantial stake in the club. He is locked-in to a certain extent.

Turns out the BBC report was "premature"

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/ally-mccoist-considers-buying-stake-in-rangers-as-club-announces-kirk-broadfoot-s-departure-1-2495318

So, if they got that wrong, how much else did they get wrong? Are there any investors? :cb

[Jim44]

Turns out the BBC report was "premature"

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/ally-mccoist-considers-buying-stake-in-rangers-as-club-announces-kirk-broadfoot-s-departure-1-2495318

So, if they got that wrong, how much else did they get wrong? Are there any investors? :cb


The report says Bocanegra might be staying but how can he if he persists in wearing these silly green boots?

[CropleyWasGod]

The report says Bocanegra might be staying but how can he if he persists in wearing these silly green boots?

:greengrin

The way I read the report about him, he is trying to get a move, and that CG would be happy for him to go.

[grunt]

CG and AM are both up before the beak today to answer charges of bringing the game into disrepute (or some such antiquated term).
We'll see just how hard the authorities come down on this pestilent pair.

[WindyMiller]

Turns out the BBC report was "premature"

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/ally-mccoist-considers-buying-stake-in-rangers-as-club-announces-kirk-broadfoot-s-departure-1-2495318

So, if they got that wrong, how much else did they get wrong? Are there any investors? :cb


Somebody's telling porkies..................again!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dubai-man-is-rangers-largest-investor.18682118


and Zeus Capital are involved. Are they not involved with Ticketus?

[CropleyWasGod]

Somebody's telling porkies..................again!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dubai-man-is-rangers-largest-investor.18682118


and Zeus Capital are involved. Are they not involved with Ticketus?

That Herald report is almost exactly the same as the BBC one. Either one lifted it from the other, or it came out in a press release.

If it's the latter, someone forgot to tell Ally. :rolleyes:

[grunt]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

[SurferRosa]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

I think he`s been told he`s been a very naughty boy and if he does it again he`ll get 100 lines.

[Jim44]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

Does that mean McCoist has to spend his three match ban, hanging from the roof of the stand?

[ballengeich]

I think he`s been told he`s been a very naughty boy and if he does it again he`ll get 100 lines.

He's not a naughty boy - he's the messiah.

[Biggie]

It looks like a punishment, but it's no a punishment...

[Paisley Hibby]

Only 26,450 in the Big Hoose tonight.

[SurferRosa]

Only 26,450 in the Big Hoose tonight.

:agree:

Of course the BBC reported it as " a crowd of over 26 000 packed into Ibrox ".......

[VickMackie]

Of course the BBC reported it as " a crowd of over 26 000 packed into Ibrox ".......

What else would they report it as? :faf:

[SurferRosa]

What else would they report it as? :faf:

eh....it`s called Spin. Which is what i was trying to point out.

26000 is about 10000+ down on what they have been gettin.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

I just can't understand how Sally can get away with a suspended ban when it is already known that Rangers were represented at the Review and were fully aware of the panelists identities. He was quite blatantly inciting the hordes through the media.

[hibs0666]

:agree:

Of course the BBC reported it as " a crowd of over 26 000 packed into Ibrox ".......

That's a fantastic attendance.

[Jack]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

I despair, I really do.

I hope the police take a rather stronger line.

[Hibs Giant]

Does anyone know why Rangers administrators didn't sell Ibrox and Murray park to a real estate company to pay off the debts? £5.5m doesn't seem to come close.
You know that they will be back in the premier league lording it up in no time. As if nothing ever happened. Think about how many front line public services you can buy with £100m+ of our tax money, that they spent on a big stick, with which to beat us.
They should have bulldozed Ibrox and dragged the culprits and their emblem, through the streets to be crucified on a mountain of burning shame. Just like would have happened to any other company who swindled the public purse to such an extent.

[calmac12000]

Ally gets a 3 match ban - suspended, and Charley gets censured.
No change there, then.

"Censured" - what is the point of that??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19430858

Aye, that'll teach them they'll no do that again eh!

[CropleyWasGod]

Does anyone know why Rangers administrators didn't sell these assets to a real estate company to pay off the debts? £5.5m doesn't seem to come close.
You know that they will be back in the premier league lording it up in no time. As if nothing ever happened. Think about how many front line public services you can buy with £100m+ of our tax money, that they spent on a big stick, with which to beat us.
They should have bulldozed Ibrox and dragged the culprits and their emblem, through the streets to be crucified on a mountain of burning shame. Just like would have happened to any other company who swindled the public purse to such an extent.

You were doing so well until that last bit. :greengrin

[Waxy]

Does anyone know why Rangers administrators didn't sell these assets to a real estate company to pay off the debts? £5.5m doesn't seem to come close.
You know that they will be back in the premier league lording it up in no time. As if nothing ever happened. Think about how many front line public services you can buy with £100m+ of our tax money, that they spent on a big stick, with which to beat us.
They should have bulldozed Ibrox and dragged the culprits and their emblem, through the streets to be crucified on a mountain of burning shame. Just like would have happened to any other company who swindled the public purse to such an extent.Agree.but with that steady stream of old firm money always guarenteed in the future,the old firm are indestuctable.
Money has killed football.

[Cropley10]

Anyone know how many STs Chuck has managed to shift?

Or put another way when will the money run out, again?

[PatHead]

Anyone know how many STs Chuck has managed to shift?

Or put another way when will the money run out, again?

Supposedly 32000 but a lot will be kids.

[Hibs Giant]

Agree.but with that steady stream of old firm money always guarenteed in the future,the old firm are indestuctable.
Money has killed football.

But Rangers steady stream will largely come from the gate receipts of the massive stadium that they forgot(?) to liquidate.
When they were 'winding up', how could they overlook the failed companies 2 biggest physical assets? How? Its been driving me mad.

[CropleyWasGod]

But Rangers steady stream will largely come from the gate receipts of the massive stadium that they forgot(?) to liquidate.
When they were 'winding up', how could they overlook the failed companies 2 biggest physical assets? How? Its been driving me mad.

Again :greengrin This will be investigated by liquidators when they are appointed. The administrators will have to show that they achieved the best possible price.

[Hibs Giant]

Again :greengrin This will be investigated by liquidators when they are appointed. The administrators will have to show that they achieved the best possible price.

Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

I disagree on that point. Of course people have noticed. It's been all over this thread, and presumably every other club's fans board. Where it hasn't been mentioned is in the mainstream media, but that's been one of the features of this saga. It hasn't been the MSM that has been asking the important questions, it has been people like Paul McConville, Alex Thomson and amateur sleuths on fans' boards.... if it wasn't for the upsurge in fans' pressure about what division to put the Huns in, it is very likely that they would have still been in the SPL.

Having said all that, the most important people in this issue over the next few months will be the liquidators.... and, for sure, they WILL have noticed.

One word of caution. The administrators paid a firm of surveyors £25k for their valuation of the properties. That's a professional firm, whose reputation is at risk if they got it as wrong as many people have suggested. Yes, there has been much debate on here about open market, about listed status, about housing value and flood plains and and and..... but at the end of the day the liquidators will be relying on professional opinion.

[LeighLoyal]

Jabba on BBC selling the lie that Gweenie's consortium bought Rangers. They bought ASSETS belonging to the soon to be liquidated club called Rangers FC, they didn't buy Rangers. Get it right, Jabba, you lard ass. :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

Does anyone know why Rangers administrators didn't sell Ibrox and Murray park to a real estate company to pay off the debts? £5.5m doesn't seem to come close.


Those items, plus the car park, were sold for the princely sum of £1.5m.

[Just Alf]

Surely you can smell a rat? £5.5m? For everything? The land on which Ibrox sits alone must be worth at least twice that.
This is the great injustice of it all. Yet no one seems to have noticed.

Loads of good points Mr Giant sir!

No easy answers though :D

Greyskull is partially listed, there is ways around it but not sure the ground it sits on is worth the effort value wise.

Re the training ground ... It's also listed .... for non residential use only, here though, there's some wee "issues" with that. On one hand there's west of Scotland rugby team (I think) just along the road with a training facility that's not listed and were quoted as having a buyer in the wings (2-3 mill talked about).. So sell existing grounds and move into Murray park... Simples..... Add to that, the Murray park listed status is under threat anyway, fields just along the road with the same listing had the listing changed and houses were built.... There's ways and means it seems!

Add to ALL of that we have a director of Sevco a week or so after they bought old co assets for the 5.5 mill quoted in official meeting minutes that those same assets had made the newco worth 50 million plus (link to it somewhere way back in these pages). So 8 or whatever Green paid duff and Duffer + 5.5 = 50 as far as newco bean counters are concerned.... As the guys above have already said this makes the upcoming BDO investigation very interesting!.... There's more to this yet I think :D

[CropleyWasGod]

Jabba on BBC selling the lie that Gweenie's consortium bought Rangers. They bought ASSETS belonging to the soon to be liquidated club called Rangers FC, they didn't buy Rangers. Get it right, Jabba, you lard ass. :agree:

One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.

[LeighLoyal]

One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.



He didn't buy Rangers Football Club. If he had it wouldn't have been called Sevco Scotland for two months and now "The Rangers." He bought parts of the corpse of a failed institution called Rangers Football Club.

[CropleyWasGod]

He didn't buy Rangers Football Club. If he had it wouldn't have been called Sevco Scotland for two months and now "The Rangers." He bought parts of the corpse of a failed institution called Rangers Football Club.

He didn't buy the shares of the old company, I agree. But he(through Sevco) did buy the trading name, and in that regard he owns the name.

It's similar to me buying a Macdonalds franchise from a company that has gone into administration. My company might be called CWG Limited, but that company owns the right to the Macdonalds name, so I can call the business Macdonalds. I can change the company name to anything I want, subject to certain restrictions, but my trading name is still Macdonalds.

The reason he couldn't use the Rangers name for his company right away was because it was too similar to the old one, and that is prohibited under Company Law. Once the old company changed its name, then he was at liberty to change it to TRFC.

It's all on the Companies House website.

[Jim44]

Again :greengrin This will be investigated by liquidators when they are appointed. The administrators will have to show that they achieved the best possible price.

What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?

[LeighLoyal]

What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?



The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.

[CropleyWasGod]

What happens if it turns out the administrators did not achieve the best possiblle price?

As I understand it, there are two options:-

1. to have the sale reversed ie for the assets to revert to the old company, so that the liquidators can get a better price. That is messy, and could take a long time, but is probably the fairest way.

2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.

[CropleyWasGod]

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.



Rangers FC is not in the hands of BDO. They haven't been appointed yet.

As for the "line of defence" jibe, there is no need. All I am doing is setting out the legal process that has happened, and is likely to happen.

[cabbageandribs1875]

2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.



i could get fair excited at the thought of that :hyper:

[Kaiser1962]

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.



Thats unfair.

Whilst I agree that the sum realised is at odds with any reasonable, IMO, valuation of the companies assetts CWG (and the other accounts guys) are only communicationg the process that must be gone through.

Whilst the outcome of said process may appear to some to be pre determined I would point out that most, if not all, decisions reached thus far have contrasted sharply with Charles Green's desired outcome.

[The Green Goblin]

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.

There you go again.... Oh dear.

I for one am just very grateful that a poster like Cropley can be bothered to put up many posts in this thread which make it easier for people like myself to follow what's going on.

You came out of your last few bashes at him on this thread looking a wee bit foolish. Why keep having wee digs like that? There's no need for it.

[Seveno]

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.


And no, he didn't buy Rangers Football Club. He bought assets and brand rights. Rangers FC is in the hands of BDO, let's hope they do the decent thing and get the creditors justice.

Not again ! Please take your petty little vendetta against CWG into your smallest room and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[LeighLoyal]

There you go again.... Oh dear.

I for one am just very grateful that a poster like Cropley can be bothered to put up many posts in this thread which make it easier for people like myself to follow what's going on.

You came out of your last few bashes at him on this thread looking a wee bit foolish. Why keep having wee digs like that? There's no need for it.


You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

[LeighLoyal]

Not again ! Please take your petty little vendetta against CWG into your smallest room and shove it where the sun don't shine.



Cheers mate. I won't dare contradict CWG again, now I know he's a holy relic on HN. Thanks. Hope you sleep okay now I will avoid any critiques.

[CropleyWasGod]

You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e62972829fdc14ee46d3383048de1459/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no? :wink:

[Nuitdelune]

No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e62972829fdc14ee46d3383048de1459/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

Though possibly more of an unfair preference than one of those--not that I am wanting to interrupt! :wink:

[Tynie01011973]

One of those assets that they bought was the goodwill of Rangers, ie its name. So, in that sense, he is right.

Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

:confused:

I'm not a fan of Wikipedia, but the first line of this link defines it pretty well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_(accounting)

Going back to my earlier post (you were paying attention weren't you? :cb), arguably the most valuable asset that Macdonalds has is its Goodwill.

[Kaiser1962]

Sorry, but since when can 'goodwill; be classed as an 'asset' ?

An asset is something tangible - ie. ground, training facilities NOT how the club may be perceived OR history [50+ titles]

:confused:


Its a term from the Black Art of Accountants that is widely used when a business changes hands. In this instance Sevco's predecessors left them a customer base of about 40k Orc's. Those 40k orcs were only worth a quid if I remember correctly.

[CropleyWasGod]

Its a term from the Black Art of Accountants that is widely used when a business changes hands. In this instance Sevco's predecessors left them a customer base of about 40k Orc's. Those 40k orcs were only worth a quid if I remember correctly.

...only because HMRC doesn't recognise anything less than £1. :greengrin

[Just Alf]

You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.


No they are not. They are still in administration. Exhibit A.... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e62972829fdc14ee46d3383048de1459/compdetails

And the term you are looking for is "gratuitous alienation".

As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no? :wink:



So apart from a "timing" issue, you guys are both saying the same thing.... this feels like one of me and the millstone's arguments then!

:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

So apart from a "timing" issue, you guys are both saying the same thing.... this feels like one of me and the millstone's arguments then!

:wink:

Not at all. I may be a relic, but I'd baulk at the use of the word "holy". :greengrin

[Mikey]

The gross alienation of assets that is abundantly clear to all you mean? Cropley might need a new line of defence. Oh dear.



Are you ok?

[Just Alf]

Not at all. I may be a relic, but I'd baulk at the use of the word "holy". :greengrin

:greengrin

[The Green Goblin]

You're entitled to that opinion, mate.


I was just stating the facts, Rangers Football Club are in the hands of the liquidators, Binder Dijker Otte. Mr Green bought assets and brand rights, not a football club for a supposed sum of £5m. A deal that can be unwound if a gross alienation of assets by Whyte's spivvy administrator is uncovered by this respectable accountancy firm.

Okay, but you ignored my question, which was the whole point of my post: why the digs at other posters?

[Kaiser1962]

...only because HMRC doesn't recognise anything less than £1. :greengrin


Then if BDO are going to look at whether the heritable properties were undervalued then it is only fair that they revisit the sale of goodwill as I feel sure that Chuckie may well be due a refund for this transaction. :greengrin

[VickMackie]

eh....it`s called Spin. Which is what i was trying to point out.

26000 is about 10000+ down on what they have been gettin.

I know what spin is. This isn't spin.

What would you like them to say? A dreadfull crowd of 26,000 turned up? That would be negative spin despite being 2/3 times bigger than almost any other club.

There are certainly questions to be raised to the media and football authorities re rangers. However, this isn't on of them.

[Caversham Green]

As I understand it, there are two options:-

1. to have the sale reversed ie for the assets to revert to the old company, so that the liquidators can get a better price. That is messy, and could take a long time, but is probably the fairest way.

2. for TRFC to pay the old company a fair price. That would bankrupt TRFC.

I reckon there's a third option - a class action by the creditors against D&P for the difference between the fair price and the amount actually paid. It wouldn't affect Sevco in any way and D&P would likely settle out of court (if the evidence is as compelling as it seems to be) and claim on their PII.

As the creditors are primarily HMRC and Ticketus (unless they are successful in pursuing Wee Craig for their losses) it would depend on their attitude whether they go for it or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

I reckon there's a third option - a class action by the creditors against D&P for the difference between the fair price and the amount actually paid. It wouldn't affect Sevco in any way and D&P would likely settle out of court (if the evidence is as compelling as it seems to be) and claim on their PII.

As the creditors are primarily HMRC and Ticketus (unless they are successful in pursuing Wee Craig for their losses) it would depend on their attitude whether they go for it or not.

You might be right there. Everyone's a winner, except the PII company :greengrin The biggest winner of all, of course, would be Green.

Wouldn't go down well with those who want the obliteration of the Huns, though.....

[Caversham Green]

You might be right there. Everyone's a winner, except the PII company :greengrin The biggest winner of all, of course, would be Green.

Wouldn't go down well with those who want the obliteration of the Huns, though.....

It certainly wouldn't - maybe we should have a sweep on who's first to blame the SFA/SPL/SFL for favouring the huns.

[Moulin Yarns]

Loads of good points Mr Giant sir!

No easy answers though :D

Greyskull is partially listed, there is ways around it but not sure the ground it sits on is worth the effort value wise.

Re the training ground ... It's also listed .... for non residential use only, here though, there's some wee "issues" with that. On one hand there's west of Scotland rugby team (I think) just along the road with a training facility that's not listed and were quoted as having a buyer in the wings (2-3 mill talked about).. So sell existing grounds and move into Murray park... Simples..... Add to that, the Murray park listed status is under threat anyway, fields just along the road with the same listing had the listing changed and houses were built.... There's ways and means it seems!

Add to ALL of that we have a director of Sevco a week or so after they bought old co assets for the 5.5 mill quoted in official meeting minutes that those same assets had made the newco worth 50 million plus (link to it somewhere way back in these pages). So 8 or whatever Green paid duff and Duffer + 5.5 = 50 as far as newco bean counters are concerned.... As the guys above have already said this makes the upcoming BDO investigation very interesting!.... There's more to this yet I think :D

A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)

[Keith_M]

A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)




I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

[Just Alf]

A few points need clarification, if I may. (Pedant alert!)

The main stand at Ibrox has a Category B listing by Historic Scotland (100-170 Edminston Road). This would not prevent development as the rest of the stadium isn't listed. Indeed there have been successful redeveloments of listed buildings elsewhere. All it means is Historic Scotland have a say in what can/can't be done.
The training ground is not listed, it is zoned, in the Local Development Plan. This only means there is a preference for a type of development, in this case recreational use. This would not prevent developers applying for and getting permission to develop in another way, just that they would need to come up with some over-riding proof of need for such develoment. (Sainsbury's got permission to build on a flood plain by producing flood prevention plans in my neck of the woods)



I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

I know! I know! .... totally agree...... the housing near MP I mentioned is on "re-zoned" land :agree:


and I did all that on my phone.... on a re-read before posting I just couldn't face going back over it and get it right for you guys! :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

As for "respectable", I used to work for BDO..... kinda undermines your opinion of 'em, no? :wink:

CWG - I admire your restraint at times on this thread!

[Hibs Giant]

I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

Both sites could be entirely listed as unesco world heritage graveyards, with no future commercial prospects, and they'd still have gone for too little. Its umpteen hectares of land, deep within one Briton's biggest cities. Only a dangerous fool could argue that a fair price was paid.
Rangers have some very powerful and unscrupulous friends. My great fear is what might go on behind closed doors. Its the principal that pains me. And what it tells us about Scotland in general.

[greenginger]

I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".


The " external facade " bit is just like the new football club that plays at the Govan football stadium. Rangers on the outside but all new and without any history inside.
The only " Listing " for the Club would be amongst those on a creditor black list. :wink:

[LeighLoyal]

Regards Sevco on the pitch, another referee blunder (honest mistake) helped them out at 1-1, clear red card offence ignored by ref. Add that to Tumilty's joke whistle at Berwick last week. Green bought assets and a brand name, goodwill according to 'some', he also inherited oldco's goodwill from referees.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see your Pedantry and raise you a.... "naw it isnae, it's only the external facade of the Main Stand".

Not just the facade, and remember they added the Club Deck, thus altering a listed building.

Archibald Leitch and Partners, Architects and Engineers, 1928, opened 1.1.29. Tall Renaissance 25-bay red brick facade.
Centrepiece: entrance; ashlar engaged columns and pilasters carry lintel and mutule cornice. Balustrade and 4-light window above set in giant arched panel, divided vertically by plain pilaster strips and horizontally by panels, keystoned. Advanced flanking bays; 1st and 2nd floor windows similarly linked but under pediments. 10 bays to either side with ground floor segmental-headed arcade. Band course. Giant pilasters through 1st and 2nd floors separate windows set in round-headed recesses. Corner pavilions pilastered with bipartite windows at 1st and 2nd linked by panel, under a pediment. Small bipartites on return elevations under mosaic shields with lion rampant inscribed "1872 Ready 1928". E Shield has been altered to "1872 Ready 1981". Mutule main cornice. Central parapet with faience panel "Rangers FC". Parapets over corner pavilions. Multi-paned metal framed windows.
Interior: wood and stained glass doors to vestibule and RFC floor mosaic. 2 Doric columns and 2 pilasters with disc frieze capitals carry landing. Dark wood panelled walls and simple plaster cornices, stair has wrought-iron and wood banister. 1st floor large corniced door to Director's room. Most rooms have wood panelling and some original light fittings. Main stand is 2-tier and steel-framed with a corrugated roof and shield facing pitch.

[joe breezy]

I've got two friends that live in a place that used to be a listed building and football stadium.

It's nice and the former pitch is still a remembrance garden...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_Stadium#section_1

[LeighLoyal]

just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG - I admire your restraint at times on this thread!

:greengrin It comes from years of practice of slowly and deliberately explaining the intricacies of the law to clients, only for them to come back with the answer "why?". I have seen the days when I have battered their heads off my desk in time to the words "because that's the freaking law!!".

[Baldy Foghorn]

just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

That is so crass, and complete ignorance of what happened back then.......

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

I get the impression you don't like The Rangers in all their various guises very much, am I right?

[LeighLoyal]

I get the impression you don't like The Rangers in all their various guises very much, am I right?



I despise what they represent with every fibre I have, so should everyone for the shame they bring on us all. And I wish I'd had £5m to spare in June, would have bought the assets and moth balled the whole rotten lot for good. Just as well for them I'm a few years away from making that kind of cash. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Regards Sevco on the pitch, another referee blunder (honest mistake) helped them out at 1-1, clear red card offence ignored by ref. Add that to Tumilty's joke whistle at Berwick last week. Green bought assets and a brand name, goodwill according to 'some', he also inherited oldco's goodwill from referees.

... 'some' includes the Joint Administrators, who included it in their Report to the Creditors, a report which is now lodged with the Court.

Page 25 of this document. http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/duff-phelps-report-july-2012.pdf

[green glory]

With any luck the results of the SPL investigation into the double contracts will be made known soon. After all the defiance from the Ibroke hordes in recent months, it'll make the title stripping all the more sweet.

Is BDO's appointment not imminent too?

[Northernhibee]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=237304&st=0

I don't know what side to hate more, if Sevco fans are Hertz fans without the bus fare or if the yams are Sevco fans without the bus fare.

This has gotten confusing. Doncaster and Regan must go.

[Dan Sarf]

just pre ordered the Phil Mac book, Downfall, on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346662817&sr=8-3 The guy has had to flee Scotland with his family due to Sevco hun animals sending him death threats. Happy to pay £9 to get the truth that the hun tub thumpers like Traynor, Guidi and Keevins refused to print. Good title, Downfall, mirrors another racist and evil groups demise in 1945.

Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboardhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/sun) has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/3/1346685485492/Rangers.book.jpgThe Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345555347&sr=1-1) by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/rangers) fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.

[LeighLoyal]

Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/sun) has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/3/1346685485492/Rangers.book.jpgThe Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345555347&sr=1-1) by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/rangers) fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.


I saw that. And their excuse is some blog he did months ago comparing hun 'legned' Billy, signing policy, Struth to Shelley's Victor Frankenstein and his creation, the monster, to the Mordor Sevco horde. The punch line is the monster's first words are "WATP!!" Huns, the uber-loyalists Dingwalls and Edgar's of this world, think that is sectarian. Maybe not in good taste, but no mention of churches or Irish politics in it I can see, but it's sectarian because they hate this guy for having the temerity to shine a light on their rancid clubs corruption. The Sun... :rolleyes: They described his output as 'tarred with a sectarian brush" and branded the guy as "not a proper and sound journalist". I assume this is slander and they can be taken to court. But just shows how scared they are of the bigot pound. I'm thinking Sevco possibly threatened to remove co-operation if the book was serialised. They are already worried that BDO might unwind their shoddy purchase from Whyte's appointed London henchmen.

[Dan Sarf]

I saw that. And their excuse is some blog he did months ago comparing hun 'legned' Billy, signing policy, Struth to Shelley's Victor Frankenstein and his creation, the monster, to the Mordor Sevco horde. The punch line is the monster's first words are "WATP!!" Huns, the uber-loyalists Dingwalls and Edgar's of this world, think that is sectarian. Maybe not in good taste, but no mention of churches or Irish politics in it I can see, but it's sectarian because they hate this guy for having the temerity to shine a light on their rancid clubs corruption. The Sun... :rolleyes: They described his output as 'tarred with a sectarian brush" and branded the guy as "not a proper and sound journalist". I assume this is slander and they can be taken to court. But just shows how scared they are of the bigot pound. I'm thinking Sevco possibly threatened to remove co-operation if the book was serialised. They are already worried that BDO might unwind their shoddy purchase from Whyte's appointed London henchmen.

According to the Guardian they did: "Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain."

[LeighLoyal]

According to the Guardian they did: "Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain."



There you have it then, bending to Sevco and their hordes intimidation and making up some baloney to cover it. I think they could regret questioning the guy's journalistic integrity, though. Their hacks wouldn't know integrity if it slapped them in the face.

[The Green Goblin]

When I read this thread, I always end up thinking of that bit at the end of "V for Vendetta" where the guy is shooting and hitting "V" repeatedly and he's getting desperate as V gets closer and he's saying "Die! Die! Why won't you die?" That's how I feel about Hunco.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Nearly 7 hours since the last post, didnae seem right to let it drag behind any longer!

[Newry Hibs]

With the Sun pulling it's serialisation of the book and the other examples of the fundamentatlism shown by the Hun hordes against anyone who dares blaspheme (e.g. Fat Ally demanding to know who was against them on the tribunal) - does anyone know of any decent supporters (excuse the oxymoron) who are actually ashamed / embarassed of what they did and all the tantrums thrown since? Maybe they actually think they got off lightly and are grateful to have a team playing football at all.

[Caversham Green]

Apologies if already posted...

Scottish Sun cancels book serialisation after Rangers fans jam switchboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/sep/03/sun-scotland

n an unprecedented act, The Sun (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/sun) has cancelled a book serialisation the day after blurbing it and running an interview that praised the bravery of its author.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/3/1346685485492/Rangers.book.jpgThe Scottish edition of the paper had planned to start running extracts today from a book entitled Downfall: how Rangers FC self-destructed (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Downfall-How-Rangers-Self-Destructed/dp/1904684262/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345555347&sr=1-1) by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain.
But within 24 hours of its lengthy puff announcing its serialisation the paper ran a leading article explaining that it had changed its mind.
The decision followed the jamming of its switchboard as hundreds ofRangers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/rangers) fans called to complain while others took to Twitter. Rangers itself lobbied the paper and threatened to ban Sun journalists from its ground. There were also physical threats made to The Sun reporter who wrote the interview with Mac Giolla Bhain.

Here's Paul McConville's take on it and other things - long, but worth reading.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/playing-the-man-and-not-the-ball-the-sun-rangers-and-downfall-by-phil-mac-giolla-bhain/#more-2064

[AndyM_1875]

Here's Paul McConville's take on it and other things - long, but worth reading.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/playing-the-man-and-not-the-ball-the-sun-rangers-and-downfall-by-phil-mac-giolla-bhain/#more-2064

As always Paul McConville is worth reading. There is most definitely a story to be told and a book to be written about the 2012 implosion at Ibrox but this book is not it.

At best PMcG's piece 'The Incubator' was spectacularly ill-advised, at worst it was a nasty piece of out and out hate-mongering and I am not buying the squealing now from his apologists that the piece was some form of 'satire'. Given the current fragility of newspaper sales and the Sun's own history with fan led boycotts in Liverpool, I can't see how the editor could make any other decision than to pull the serialisation.

I also have to question the manner in which a critic of the mainstream media and the Jabba Traynors such as PMcG would so quickly lose his principles as to prostitute himself off to Rupert Murdoch for a quick payday.

There are no winners in this whole sorry affair, just a load of bigots and axe grinding agenda merchants trying to raise their own profile all mixed in together. Meanwhile the creditors of Rangers Football Club plc remain as as I always thought they would.
Absolutely f***ed.

[LeighLoyal]

As always Paul McConville is worth reading. There is most definitely a story to be told and a book to be written about the 2012 implosion at Ibrox but this book is not it.

At best PMcG's piece 'The Incubator' was spectacularly ill-advised, at worst it was a nasty piece of out and out hate-mongering and I am not buying the squealing now from his apologists that the piece was some form of 'satire'. Given the current fragility of newspaper sales and the Sun's own history with fan led boycotts in Liverpool, I can't see how the editor could make any other decision than to pull the serialisation.

I also have to question the manner in which a critic of the mainstream media and the Jabba Traynors such as PMcG would so quickly lose his principles as to prostitute himself off to Rupert Murdoch for a quick payday.

There are no winners in this whole sorry affair, just a load of bigots and axe grinding agenda merchants trying to raise their own profile all mixed in together. Meanwhile the creditors of Rangers Football Club plc remain as as I always thought they would.
Absolutely f***ed.


The same publication who run a column and regular pieces supposedly scribbled down by UVF fan Goram? Whose ex wife labelled him a raving bigot. Interesting. I thought the incubator piece was in poor taste, not particularly well written, but I fail to see the anti Presbyterian angle. I'm pretty certain Sun contributor, Goram, is a bigot, but PMcG... I need more than this incubator piece. The Sun sh it themselves when Sevco threatened co-operation and dug up this innocuous piece as a cover story. Seemples.

[AndyM_1875]

The same publication who run a column and regular pieces supposedly scribbled down by UVF fan Goram? Whose ex wife labelled him a raving bigot. Interesting. I thought the incubator piece was in poor taste, not particularly well written, but I fail to see the anti Presbyterian angle. I'm pretty certain Sun contributor, Goram, is a bigot, but PMcG... I need more than this incubator piece. The Sun sh it themselves when Sevco threatened co-operation and dug up this innocuous piece as a cover story. Seemples.

The piece was far from innocuous. and who mentioned Presbyterianism? I didn't. Further more don't expect me to stick up for The Sun. I abhor the paper.

But all the Sun Editor would have done is check out PMcG's blogs and his Twitter postings. That alone would have him 'hoist by his own petard' as the old expression goes.

[PatHead]

The Sun is as bad as the rest of the Scottish media. They (the media) ignored for as long as possible the happenings at Ibrox. They still try to say it is the same Rangers who won all the titles and nothing has changed apart from all the bad people who relegated Rangers to the 3rd division.

They ignore how morally wrong it is for the new club to carry on as though nothing had happened. If you believed them it was all down to Craig Whyte who created all that mess in 9 months. They ignore how the old Rangers cheated their way to all these titles. The BBC still employ Billy Dodds who benefitted from EBTs. They still employ Chic and Traynor who were proven to be part of the "succulent lamb brigade" and never worked for stories but simply issued propaganda on behalf of David Murray. They have stopped providing matchday coverage of most SPL games due to cuts but can still have people at the games phoning in for "Open all Mikes". Why not just send a commentator instead of someone in the tunnel, two folk commentating and another two in the studio? (Then again could you imagine Derek Ferguson commentating?)

Why are no journalists looking at The Rangers and asking where all the money has come from to fund these salaries and to run The Rangers? Why are they not asking who is providing the backing?
We still don't know where the money came from to buy Ibrox and the assets so how do we know if these people are fit and proper to run a football club?
What has happened to the SFA enquiry into the Old Rangers?
What lessons have been learnt and has the rulebook been re-wriiten to ensure it doesn't happen again?
Why are they not asking what Doncaster and Regan are still doing in their jobs?
Why is Cambell Ogilvie still in his job at SFA and not being hounded out by the press?
Why did Sandy Jardine get away with his comments?
How did McCoist and Green get away with a little slap on the wrists?
Why has the opportunity to revolutionise our game not been taken?

Real journalists would be asking these questions but we are a year on and back to square one with the exception of Rangers being in D3. (Don't worry that will be sorted soon.)

The whole thing stinks

[Spike Mandela]

This publicity will do more for the sales of the book than the serialisation would have.:cb

[johnrebus]

The Sun is as bad as the rest of the Scottish media. They (the media) ignored for as long as possible the happenings at Ibrox. They still try to say it is the same Rangers who won all the titles and nothing has changed apart from all the bad people who relegated Rangers to the 3rd division.

They ignore how morally wrong it is for the new club to carry on as though nothing had happened. If you believed them it was all down to Craig Whyte who created all that mess in 9 months. They ignore how the old Rangers cheated their way to all these titles. The BBC still employ Billy Dodds who benefitted from EBTs. They still employ Chic and Traynor who were proven to be part of the "succulent lamb brigade" and never worked for stories but simply issued propaganda on behalf of David Murray. They have stopped providing matchday coverage of most SPL games due to cuts but can still have people at the games phoning in for "Open all Mikes". Why not just send a commentator instead of someone in the tunnel, two folk commentating and another two in the studio? (Then again could you imagine Derek Ferguson commentating?)

Why are no journalists looking at The Rangers and asking where all the money has come from to fund these salaries and to run The Rangers? Why are they not asking who is providing the backing?
We still don't know where the money came from to buy Ibrox and the assets so how do we know if these people are fit and proper to run a football club?
What has happened to the SFA enquiry into the Old Rangers?
What lessons have been learnt and has the rulebook been re-wriiten to ensure it doesn't happen again?
Why are they not asking what Doncaster and Regan are still doing in their jobs?
Why is Cambell Ogilvie still in his job at SFA and not being hounded out by the press?
Why did Sandy Jardine get away with his comments?
How did McCoist and Green get away with a little slap on the wrists?
Why has the opportunity to revolutionise our game not been taken?

Real journalists would be asking these questions but we are a year on and back to square one with the exception of Rangers being in D3. (Don't worry that will be sorted soon.)

The whole thing stinks


This

:top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

Here's Paul McConville's take on it and other things - long, but worth reading.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/playing-the-man-and-not-the-ball-the-sun-rangers-and-downfall-by-phil-mac-giolla-bhain/#more-2064

As ever, good stuff.

I had to re-read this quote from the Sun, a few times...."The Rangers story has gripped the entire nation and it is one we will continue to tell. We will tell it truthfully, honestly and without fear or favour."

If it weren't for the likes of Mac Giolla Bhain, no one would know there was a story to tell. :rolleyes:

[LeighLoyal]

The Sun were still backing Whyte and claiming he paid off the Lloyds debt right up until the Daily Mail confirmed the Ticketus scandal in February, they certainly did not publish one inquiring or negative headline on Whyte. I assume to avoid riling up the slavish horde and because they are a hun paper.

[Tynie01011973]

Whatever has happened to yon Bomber Brown ? Been very quiet lately

:dunno:

[Hibrandenburg]

The Sun is as bad as the rest of the Scottish media. They (the media) ignored for as long as possible the happenings at Ibrox. They still try to say it is the same Rangers who won all the titles and nothing has changed apart from all the bad people who relegated Rangers to the 3rd division.

They ignore how morally wrong it is for the new club to carry on as though nothing had happened. If you believed them it was all down to Craig Whyte who created all that mess in 9 months. They ignore how the old Rangers cheated their way to all these titles. The BBC still employ Billy Dodds who benefitted from EBTs. They still employ Chic and Traynor who were proven to be part of the "succulent lamb brigade" and never worked for stories but simply issued propaganda on behalf of David Murray. They have stopped providing matchday coverage of most SPL games due to cuts but can still have people at the games phoning in for "Open all Mikes". Why not just send a commentator instead of someone in the tunnel, two folk commentating and another two in the studio? (Then again could you imagine Derek Ferguson commentating?)

Why are no journalists looking at The Rangers and asking where all the money has come from to fund these salaries and to run The Rangers? Why are they not asking who is providing the backing?
We still don't know where the money came from to buy Ibrox and the assets so how do we know if these people are fit and proper to run a football club?
What has happened to the SFA enquiry into the Old Rangers?
What lessons have been learnt and has the rulebook been re-wriiten to ensure it doesn't happen again?
Why are they not asking what Doncaster and Regan are still doing in their jobs?
Why is Cambell Ogilvie still in his job at SFA and not being hounded out by the press?
Why did Sandy Jardine get away with his comments?
How did McCoist and Green get away with a little slap on the wrists?
Why has the opportunity to revolutionise our game not been taken?

Real journalists would be asking these questions but we are a year on and back to square one with the exception of Rangers being in D3. (Don't worry that will be sorted soon.)

The whole thing stinks

Excellent post and sums up why I will take interest in the SPL only until Rangers return. Then I'm out.

[Jim44]

Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.

[MB62]

Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.

I may be wrong here but could this not be for an indefinite period, whether they get promoted each year in the SFL or not?
My understanding is that there is NO AUTOMATIC PROMOTION from SFL 1 to the SPL and clubs have to apply to the SPL for permsission to join.
If things trundle along the same way with no ultimate solution to the Sevco con and they are seen to get away with C£130m of debt wiped away, there should be NO ADMITTANCE to this lot to the SPL until all dues are paid.

[CropleyWasGod]

I may be wrong here but could this not be for an indefinite period, whether they get promoted each year in the SFL or not?
My understanding is that there is NO AUTOMATIC PROMOTION from SFL 1 to the SPL and clubs have to apply to the SPL for permsission to join.
If things trundle along the same way with no ultimate solution to the Sevco con and they are seen to get away with C£130m of debt wiped away, there should be NO ADMITTANCE to this lot to the SPL until all dues are paid.

Desirable as that may be, it flies in the face of Company Law. If the SPL refused TRFC entry on the basis that another company hadn't paid its (non-football) debts, it would be hard pushed to justify it in Court.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Desirable as that may be, it flies in the face of Company Law. If the SPL refused TRFC entry on the basis that another company hadn't paid its (non-football) debts, it would be hard pushed to justify it in Court.

Particularly with Motherwell and Dundee being in the SPL.

Some people really need to get over this. It's done, except for possible stripping of titles by the SPL.

[greenginger]

Desirable as that may be, it flies in the face of Company Law. If the SPL refused TRFC entry on the basis that another company hadn't paid its (non-football) debts, it would be hard pushed to justify it in Court.


There is still going to be a lot of football debt around. I don't think any agreement has been reached to pay the European and English clubs left out of pocket by the cheating Huns.

[Steve-O]

Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.

What a complete and utter dick he is. Everything he says is completely subjective as well. Total idiot.

[CropleyWasGod]

There is still going to be a lot of football debt around. I don't think any agreement has been reached to pay the European and English clubs left out of pocket by the cheating Huns.

One would expect it to be cleared, though, if and when TRFC are back in the SPL. If it hasn't been, by that time UEFA would be involved.

[MB62]

Desirable as that may be, it flies in the face of Company Law. If the SPL refused TRFC entry on the basis that another company hadn't paid its (non-football) debts, it would be hard pushed to justify it in Court.

SPL and SFL are two seperate entities and TRFC do not have a share holding in the SPL. Obviously have no idea what the actual rules state but believe the SPL shareholding of the team finishing last in the league must be transferred to the the top team in the SFL for them to be allowed in. What are the specifics of this actually happening, could they just refuse the transfer of the shares to TRFC without any reason being given?

TRFC want it all ways, they want to be a new co with all old debts wiped out, but still want to have all the history etc of the old co. They have already procured old co's ground and training facilities for nothing short of a steal, they are old co in all but debt because of some apparent questionable dealings.

'Getting over this' is merely an acceptance of Scottish Football and the general public tax payers being screwed so I will not be 'getting over it' in a hurry I'm afraid.

BTW CWG, not having a dash at your good self, or anybody else, just my outlook on this subject, so nothing personal at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

SPL and SFL are two seperate entities and TRFC do not have a share holding in the SPL. Obviously have no idea what the actual rules state but believe the SPL shareholding of the team finishing last in the league must be transferred to the the top team in the SFL for them to be allowed in. What are the specifics of this actually happening, could they just refuse the transfer of the shares to TRFC without any reason being given?

TRFC want it all ways, they want to be a new co with all old debts wiped out, but still want to have all the history etc of the old co. They have already procured old co's ground and training facilities for nothing short of a steal, they are old co in all but debt because of some apparent questionable dealings.

'Getting over this' is merely an acceptance of Scottish Football and the general public tax payers being screwed so I will not be 'getting over it' in a hurry I'm afraid.

BTW CWG, not having a dash at your good self, or anybody else, just my outlook on this subject, so nothing personal at all.

Since it wasn't me that said "get over it", no offence taken :greengrin

I actually think there is a lot still to be played out, but that's more on the business and legal side. The football side is, largely, settled now. TRFC can play their way through the leagues and, as long as they comply with the terms of their licence (including paying off football debts) they can be back in the SPL without argument.

I think it's in the SPL rules that they have to invite the top team in the SFL to join them, although I may have that wrong.

[StevieC]

The football side is, largely, settled now. TRFC can play their way through the leagues and, as long as they comply with the terms of their licence (including paying off football debts) they can be back in the SPL without argument.

You don't think that there could be repurcussions off the field that could affect the teams ability to play?

From what I've picked up off the field the two main issues seem to be ..

1) The sale of stadium/training/car park being voided on the basis it was sold off too cheaply.

2) Green not having the funds to survive 3 seasons out of the SPL.

I'm not too sure though as to how the outcome of these 2 issues might affect the team, and its ability to play.

[Part/Time Supporter]

You don't think that there could be repurcussions off the field that could affect the teams ability to play?

From what I've picked up off the field the two main issues seem to be ..

1) The sale of stadium/training/car park being voided on the basis it was sold off too cheaply.

2) Green not having the funds to survive 3 seasons out of the SPL.

I'm not too sure though as to how the outcome of these 2 issues might affect the team, and its ability to play.

1. Won't happen. Proof would be needed of higher bids that were ignored or wrongly rejected (there weren't).

2. Won't happen as long as their attendance holds up. They've got rid of most of the high earners. They won't be rolling in cash like Traynor pretends, but not in any real danger.

[LeighLoyal]

Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.



A shameless cretin is what Jardine is. I don't want to see his vile, embarrassment of a club in the SPL again. The air is fresher as Vlad says, and if there is any real justice BDO will see to it Green and his Sevco mysterons are relieved of all their purchase rights! Let's see them then, the bigot ****.

[Caversham Green]

Since it wasn't me that said "get over it", no offence taken :greengrin

I actually think there is a lot still to be played out, but that's more on the business and legal side. The football side is, largely, settled now. TRFC can play their way through the leagues and, as long as they comply with the terms of their licence (including paying off football debts) they can be back in the SPL without argument.

I think it's in the SPL rules that they have to invite the top team in the SFL to join them, although I may have that wrong.

Admission of the promoted team is automatic as long as it meets the membership criteria re stadium and financial requirements.


1. Won't happen. Proof would be needed of higher bids that were ignored or wrongly rejected (there weren't).

2. Won't happen as long as their attendance holds up. They've got rid of most of the high earners. They won't be rolling in cash like Traynor pretends, but not in any real danger.

I think failure to take adequate steps to obtain the best possible price would be enough for an action to succeed, but as I said earlier, I reckon settlement might be between D&P and the creditors rather than involving Sevco.

The position now is that Sevco have obtained the 'best' stadium and training ground in Scotland for £1.5m while Hibs paid £3.5m for a single stand and £5.5m for their training ground and Hearts paid £2.5m plus an annual rental for their training ground and can't afford to upgrade their stadium. Sevco also paid a single pound for the goodwill of the 'best' fans in Scotland - if that's not gaining an unfair sporting advantage nothing is. Sadly, although there's plenty to get the blood vessels popping there's not much the law or football regulations can or will do about it.

[Leithenhibby]

1. Won't happen. Proof would be needed of higher bids that were ignored or wrongly rejected (there weren't).

2. Won't happen as long as their attendance holds up. They've got rid of most of the high earners. They won't be rolling in cash like Traynor pretends, but not in any real danger.


At £16 & £5 a pop, can't see their attendance figures dropping off by much. That said, I'd think come the winter/santa time they will see a downturn for sure..........

There is still an awful stench about the whole thing that will drag on as they (trfc) get closer to spl. Not sure I'll be around to watch that one though.......... :rolleyes:

[StevieC]

1. Won't happen. Proof would be needed of higher bids that were ignored or wrongly rejected (there weren't).

I'm not convinced it was ever properly put up for sale in order to seek higher bids??

There were some CVA proposals but the Green sale was pushed through the second the CVA was rejected and there was never an open sale of assets (post-CVA). There was paper talk of a bid of £8m and there were a couple of consortiums that were on the go (that wouldn't deal with Green).
Even the car park land (which serves no purpose for the football club) was bundled in with the Green deal, and could have been sold on the open market.

It may well be that when the liquidators come in they might view the thought of questioning the sale as more hassle than it is worth, but the sale certainly looks questionable.

[CropleyWasGod]

You don't think that there could be repurcussions off the field that could affect the teams ability to play?

From what I've picked up off the field the two main issues seem to be ..

1) The sale of stadium/training/car park being voided on the basis it was sold off too cheaply.

2) Green not having the funds to survive 3 seasons out of the SPL.

I'm not too sure though as to how the outcome of these 2 issues might affect the team, and its ability to play.

For sure, there are business developments that could affect the team's ability to play, and vice versa. The point I was making, though, was that as long as the business side stays stable (which is a big assumption, of course), the football side is done and dusted. TRFC have their place in the League, and that will develop "as normal".

[Seveno]

For sure, there are business developments that could affect the team's ability to play, and vice versa. The point I was making, though, was that as long as the business side stays stable (which is a big assumption, of course), the football side is done and dusted. TRFC have their place in the League, and that will develop "as normal".

Whilst the EBTs will be a 'business issue', if ever the FTT get round to announcing a decision, the dual contract issue with the SFA is a 'club' issue.

[Moulin Yarns]

Whilst the EBTs will be a 'business issue', if ever the FTT get round to announcing a decision, the dual contract issue with the SFA is a 'club' issue.

yesterday on Twitter

@alextomo (http://www.hibs.net/alextomo) MoJ confirmed today (via FoI) that they anticipate FTTT decision on EBTs (HMRC v MIH) by end of September http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/244/comment-page-21/#comment-8670 (http://t.co/SSgfqpbo)

[Seveno]

yesterday on Twitter

@alextomo (http://www.hibs.net/alextomo) MoJ confirmed today (via FoI) that they anticipate FTTT decision on EBTs (HMRC v MIH) by end of September http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/244/comment-page-21/#comment-8670 (http://t.co/SSgfqpbo)


I trust that the Borders Agency have been alerted and photos of Sir Minty posted.

[CropleyWasGod]

yesterday on Twitter

@alextomo (http://www.hibs.net/alextomo) MoJ confirmed today (via FoI) that they anticipate FTTT decision on EBTs (HMRC v MIH) by end of September http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/244/comment-page-21/#comment-8670 (http://t.co/SSgfqpbo)

This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

[AndyM_1875]

This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

That's my understanding too CWG. Football-wise it's over regardless of the decision of the FTT. The FTT was always about getting precedent so that HMRC could chase much bigger fish down south. Certainly the statement from HMRC those months back talking about a "fresh start for Rangers" suggested that they would go after the people who ran Rangers plc rather than the club itself. Worst case for David Murray, Martin Bain and Craig Whyte this could result in criminal proceedings with jail time but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

It might well stink but Rangers the footballing entity will be back in the SPL by 2015 barring any hooky reconstruction politics which put them in some SPL2 next year. The same lunatic fans, moronic chanting and sectarian bampots with a much harder edge to them and a massive chip on their shoulder.

It will be ugly as hell.