Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[leggeto]

They were relegated and banned from Europe.

I know that but were they stripped of the trophy

[Skol]

Wouldnt it be refreshing if just for once someone faced up to reality and accepted responsibility for what they did.

Both Hearts and Rangers fail to see anything wrong in what they did.

I would like to think that in their shoes Hibs would have held their hand up and said - yep we were wrong

Even the Russians are going to accept some of the doping allegations against them

[Ozyhibby]

Love the way they are all quoting Lord Nimmo Smith without having paid the fine.
The Sevco way.


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[PatHead]

Dave King statement:

It is disappointing that a debate has re-emerged around the subject of Rangers’ history in Scottish football. It must be especially frustrating for the Club’s supporters who again find individuals within the structures of Scottish football unfairly targeting the Club.

As the one individual who was a major shareholder and director throughout the period that gave rise to the HMRC dispute, and again find myself in a similar capacity, I believe that I am uniquely positioned to make three important observations.

First, irrespective of the final outcome of the tax appeal (which might take several more years) the football team had no advantage from any tax savings from the scheme put in place by the Murray Group. Throughout the period in question the shareholders were committed to providing funding to the Club. The tax scheme may have reduced the need for shareholders to provide higher levels of funding so, as I have tried to make clear in the past, any advantage gained would have been to the company and its shareholders, not the team. Certain players may not have signed for the Club without the perceived benefit of personal tax savings but there was no general advantage for the player squad, or the performance on the pitch. We would still have signed players of equal abilities if one or two had decided they didn’t want to sign under different financial circumstances.

Secondly, Lord Nimmo Smith has fully and finally dealt with the legitimacy of the continuity of the Club’s history. There is no more to be debated on that issue.

Finally, it is extraordinary that representatives of other Scottish clubs – who admit the damage done to Scottish football by Rangers’ removal from the Premier League – should even wish to re-engage with this issue. It is time those individuals, who represent other clubs, recognise their legal and fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and shareholders rather than submit to the uninformed ramblings of a few outspoken fans to whom attacking Rangers is more important than the wellbeing of their own clubs.

This is a misguided attempt (that will ultimately fail) to rewrite history and defeat Rangers off the park when their teams could not do so on the park at the time. The history of many other clubs would have to be rewritten if this illogical argument was to be consistently applied.

Having reviewed documentation that has become available to me I believe that Rangers was harshly and, in some instances, unfairly treated in the period leading up to demotion from the Premier League. However, that is now history and I have publicly stated, with the full support of the recently installed board, that we wish to put the past behind us and move on in partnership with all clubs throughout Scotland to improve and restore the image and quality of Scottish football as a whole. This will be to the benefit of all clubs.

For the avoidance of doubt, however, I wish to make one point clear. If the history of our Club comes under attack we will deal with it in the strongest manner possible and will hold to account those persons who have acted against their fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and to Scottish football.

He is off his rocker. At least he acknowledges that he was on the watch whilst the EBTs were getting handed out.

Regarding his comment about teams having to re-write history the only bit needing altered would be 3-0 victories whenever playing Rangers. As the trophy was withheld no alteration in league places would take place, no resultant lawsuits etc. It is a win for everyone by the now dead club.

That statement is about as powerful as bringing a knife to a gunfight. (to paraphrase the untouchables)

[Benny Brazil]

I know that but were they stripped of the trophy

Not according to the UEFA website - they are still listed as the winners in 1993

[leggeto]

Not according to the UEFA website - they are still listed as the winners in 1993

Did the French strip them of anything

[ballengeich]

I know that but were they stripped of the trophy I think they got to keep the European trophy as the offences they were found guilty of only related to domestic matches in France.

[high bee]

The guy is not of this world. His inane ramblings get more bizarre as each day passes.

The strain is showing, I think he is having a bit of a meltdown that things are likely worse than he expected/than is reported in the mainstream media.

[Benny Brazil]

Did the French strip them of anything

Again looking at the French FA website they are still listed as champions in 1988/89 - 1991/92 so not sure if they did

[leggeto]

I think they got to keep the European trophy as the offences they were found guilty of only related to domestic matches in France.

Hmmm looks like they will be keeping them then,anyone else apart from the old and infirm would be stripped of all

[God Petrie]

I'm eagerly awaiting the next Hertz fans' article pointing out the nuanced ways in which Hertz are pure amazing and Rangers are evil cheats.

[Ozyhibby]

Does this accurately reflect what we know went on in court today?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-greens-demand-rangers-pay-6821547

No club company mention?


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[PatHead]

Does this accurately reflect what we know went on in court today?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-greens-demand-rangers-pay-6821547

No club company mention?


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Really balanced reporting......................................... .....not.

[Jim44]

Sevco are as good as dead imo -it is only a matter of time.

Good riddance when they finally are flushed away like the persistant toleys they are. I will certainly raise a glass in celebration. I despise them, thier bigotry, cheating and arrogance.

Kings increasingly unhinged ramblings and actions must surely be scaring off any remaining, reluctant allies. Interesting to read and hear some huns now saying it's all part of greater master plan of Kings to force an insolvency event. I think they are crediting him with far too much intelligence personally. Clutching at straws imo.

They are having multiple orgasms on FF over Lying King's statement. They seem to think he has played an absolute master card.

[Hibernia&Alba]

They are having multiple orgasms on FF over Lying King's statement. They seem to think he has played an absolute master card.

They used to react in the same way to every Ian Paisley remark. Such is their level of credibility.

[GreenLake]

The only thing King can hold to account is money due for tax.

[PatHead]

They are having multiple orgasms on FF over Lying King's statement. They seem to think he has played an absolute master card.

Had the desired effect then.

Bet they are out buying their half seasons which co-incidentally went on sale today.

[Big L]

Reading today that they are prepared to sell players at the break if the price is right. They can only be referring to Waghorn and Tavernier, they are the only ones they would get money for, that would be a BONUS!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Reading today that they are prepared to sell players at the break if the price is right. They can only be referring to Waghorn and Tavernier, they are the only ones they would get money for, that would be a BONUS!!

They'd get a decent wedge for the gun slinger too.

[ano hibby]

Look away for half a day & miss 8 pages!
Any kind soul care to summarise in a tweet length précis?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Look away for half a day & miss 8 pages!
Any kind soul care to summarise in a tweet length précis?

King - "Nothing to see here, move along......Try stripping our titles and we will take action"....... Wind and gusto

[leggeto]

Reading today that they are prepared to sell players at the break if the price is right. They can only be referring to Waghorn and Tavernier, they are the only ones they would get money for, that would be a BONUS!!

Are both of them no on loan

[CropleyWasGod]

Are both of them no on loan

No. They're bought.

Dunno if they're paid for, mind :)

[Ozyhibby]

Look away for half a day & miss 8 pages!
Any kind soul care to summarise in a tweet length précis?

Nah, nothing much happening, just shooting the breeze.


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[Gmack7]

Reading today that they are prepared to sell players at the break if the price is right. They can only be referring to Waghorn and Tavernier, they are the only ones they would get money for, that would be a BONUS!!

The sale of future engerland keeper will surely solve all there financial woes

[ano hibby]

King - "Nothing to see here, move along......Try stripping our titles and we will take action"....... Wind and gusto

Ta. Not unpredictable then.

[BIGK]

That statement from King must be one of those "restrained and tempered" responses that the ibroxnoise website was banging on about due to the usual Rangers dignity!

It was quite clever actually, whipping the knuckle draggers up. Bet he sells 1000 half season tickets off the back of it, Kitchener would be very proud, your club needs you to repel the foaming hoards bull.

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/44b9828a4490a0a85acb2bd0a76d1ea0.jpg

Herald running with same angle as the Record. Clearly a concerted campaign. Thank goodness for the Internet.

@jamesdoleman: Almost seems like a different case to the one I was at

:)

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[Jack Hackett]

No. They're bought.

Dunno if they're paid for, mind :)

Just like their history...on the cheap

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/2c760cf840a4c06e64acee0deb9c80ac.jpg



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[Ozyhibby]

Here's James Doleman's report on today.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/12/mr-green-in-the-boardroom-with-the-truth/



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[GreenLake]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/12/2c760cf840a4c06e64acee0deb9c80ac.jpg



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He should have taken over Crystal Palace for all the stones he likes to throw from glass houses.

[CropleyWasGod]

Here's James Doleman's report on today.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/12/mr-green-in-the-boardroom-with-the-truth/



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Doesn't he have that first bit wrong?

He talks about the alleged fraud during the IPO. That took place while he was in post, not before.

I think he's getting mixed up with the alleged fraud of the assets sale.

I wasn't aware that the IPO was dodgy as well. Did I miss that?

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[MKHIBEE]

I bet Lord Doherty is quaking in his boots at the thought of a lying King taking him to task if he decides for Chucky regarding club/company status.
And I have a feeling Mike Ashley will be pleased at present events.

[Brunswickbill]

Celtic would be claiming the titles for 2nd place too I rekon
They would reclaim the "9 in a row" franchise. Rangers doing the same really p***ed them off.

[Ozyhibby]

They would reclaim the "9 in a row" franchise. Rangers doing the same really p***ed them off.

It won't change old Rangers 9 in a row


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[Ozyhibby]

Doesn't he have that first bit wrong?

He talks about the alleged fraud during the IPO. That took place while he was in post, not before.

I think he's getting mixed up with the alleged fraud of the assets sale.

I wasn't aware that the IPO was dodgy as well. Did I miss that?

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Not exactly sure but are not charges over both?



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[jacomo]

Again looking at the French FA website they are still listed as champions in 1988/89 - 1991/92 so not sure if they did

Will Rangers get relegated then?

Can we overtake them in the League first please?

[Ozyhibby]

Rangers defence today was that they are only liable for Charlie's actions from when he bought the assets mid June 2012.
Charlie claims it is from when he started working for Sevco.


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[jacomo]

Reading today that they are prepared to sell players at the break if the price is right. They can only be referring to Waghorn and Tavernier, they are the only ones they would get money for, that would be a BONUS!!

It's alright. Warburton did his due diligence before accepting the job.

:hilarious

[Just Alf]

Love the way they are all quoting Lord Nimmo Smith without having paid the fine.
The Sevco way.


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This bit you mean?

"In common speech a Club is treated as a recognisable entity which is capable of being owned and operated, and which continues in existence despite its transfer to another owner and operator. In legal terms, it appears to us to be no different from any other undertaking which is capable of being carried on, bought and sold.”

Don't know why, but they always seem to miss this bit?


“This is not to say that a Club has legal personality, separate from and additional to the legal personality of its owner and operator. We are satisfied that it does not, and Mr McKenzie did not seek to argue otherwise. So a Club cannot, lacking legal personality, enter into a contract by itself.”

[wookie70]

Certain players may not have signed for the club without the perceived benefit of personal tax savings, but there was no general advantage for the player squad, or the performance on the pitch"

That sounds so contradictory to me. We got players who we might not have got, our first choices in fact, because of the Tax evasion but there was no sporting advantage in us getting these preferred players. Why not just get the cheaper players and pay taxes in the first place.

[greenginger]

Rangers defence today was that they are only liable for Charlie's actions from when he bought the assets mid June 2012.
Charlie claims it is from when he started working for Sevco.


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Green's legal cover clause is near the end of this article.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/old-rangers-board-signed-deal-6510560


" ........any proceedings as a result of his having been chief executive of Rangers Football Club or the company. "

not 100% clear if this would cover actions before the " company " was formed. ( Sevco Scotland formed 29/5/2012 )

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/

Excellent Story so far from James Forrest

[ano hibby]

http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/

Excellent Story so far from James Forrest

Agreed. That's quite a long but very good read.

[Scorrie]

http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/

Excellent Story so far from James Forrest

A really good account. It would make some film script but nobody would believe it....

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://www.scotzine.com/2015/11/for-the-good-of-scottish-football-what-a-load-of-old-tosh/

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/a-very-scottish-scandal-how-rangers-almost-wrecked-scottish-football-part-one/

Excellent Story so far from James Forrest

Not so sure about his version of how HMRC became aware of the EBT issue. Other than that, thus far seems pretty decent.

[Scorrie]

http://www.scotzine.com/2015/11/for-the-good-of-scottish-football-what-a-load-of-old-tosh/

So Jim Traynor wrote The Rangers / King press release yesterday. I thought he'd moved on from Ibrox. If not then he certainly sounds rattled going by yesterday's statement and also suffering from selective / inaccurate memory.

[s.a.m]

Not so sure about his version of how HMRC became aware of EBT issue. Other than that, thus far seems pretty decent.

:agree:
Seems to be a useful, well-written chronological account of the whole shenanigans. If only someone could write up a glossary of the key initials and issues*, those of us whose cog-wheels creak at times like these, as we try to separate our BTCs from our WTCs and our LNSs would be greatly helped.:greengrin


* and sticky it!

[Ozyhibby]

Not so sure about his version of how HMRC became aware of the EBT issue. Other than that, thus far seems pretty decent.

I'm pretty sure that's how they became aware Rangers were abusing the scheme. I think the scheme itself was common knowledge, it was the existence of side letters that put Rangers in the dock.


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[Mikey09]

Was working last night and had Sportsound on... Yes I know!! I was so angered by the Rangers apologists especially Richard Wilson, I think that's his name, I text them to let them know my views. This was more to get it off my chest, however they read it out. I won't bore you all with what I said but it was all facts. Now when I said they read it out they read out MOST of it... Missing out one sentance at the end that stated, "Rangers, just like Hearts, have been a complete embarrassment to Scottish football over these past few years". This one bit wasn't read out... Wonder why?!

[CallumLaidlaw]

So Jim Traynor wrote The Rangers / King press release yesterday. I thought he'd moved on from Ibrox. If not then he certainly sounds rattled going by yesterday's statement and also suffering from selective / inaccurate memory.

Funnily enough, Scotzine themselves reported it - http://www.scotzine.com/2013/11/james-traynor-leaves-position-as-rangers-director-of-communications/

[JeMeSouviens]

Funnily enough, Scotzine themselves reported it - http://www.scotzine.com/2013/11/james-traynor-leaves-position-as-rangers-director-of-communications/

He's not directly employed by the New Huns any more, but he started his own PR company, Level 5, whose main (only?) client is the New Huns.

[jacomo]

So Jim Traynor wrote The Rangers / King press release yesterday. I thought he'd moved on from Ibrox. If not then he certainly sounds rattled going by yesterday's statement and also suffering from selective / inaccurate memory.

It certainly read like the kind of tripe Traynor has penned in the past.

The archetypal keyboard warrior - hiding behind the identity of Rangers or King to publish intemperate rants.

[Scorrie]

I'm pretty sure that's how they became aware Rangers were abusing the scheme. I think the scheme itself was common knowledge, it was the existence of side letters that put Rangers in the dock.


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If that is true how HMRC found out then the Newcastle manager who bought Boumsong was Souness IRRC who allegedly received an EBT payment. A delicious irony that a Souness transfer could have led to the whole big hoose of cards falling...

[JimBHibees]

It certainly read like the kind of tripe Traynor has penned in the past.

The archetypal keyboard warrior - hiding behind the identity of Rangers or King to publish intemperate rants.

Incredible that clown is still involved in the game given his behaviour when at the Record such as when emailing Whyte to ok what he put in an article and now still taking cash from Rangers. Only in Scotland would he still be this involved, absolutely shameless and total lack of integriity, he really is the archetypal succulent lamb.

[stubru59]

Certain players may not have signed for the club without the perceived benefit of personal tax savings, but there was no general advantage for the player squad, or the performance on the pitch"

That sounds so contradictory to me. We got players who we might not have got, our first choices in fact, because of the Tax evasion but there was no sporting advantage in us getting these preferred players. Why not just get the cheaper players and pay taxes in the first place.

It does and more importantly it contradicts what King said in 2012. An article in todays (Friday 13 Nov 2015) Herald quotes Kings as saying he understands where folk are coming from (re the perception of cheating) and that Rangers should apologise for this.

Sorry, can't do the link.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm pretty sure that's how they became aware Rangers were abusing the scheme. I think the scheme itself was common knowledge, it was the existence of side letters that put Rangers in the dock.


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You might be right.

My memory, though, is that HMRC were attacking EBT's in general, not just RFC's. As you say, the existence of RFC's scheme was in the public domain, therefore they were fair game.

I would question, though, how the author would "know" what he says about HMRC's involvement. They are notoriously reticent about individual cases.

[Ozyhibby]

If that is true how HMRC found out then the Newcastle manager who bought Boumsong was Souness IRRC who allegedly received an EBT payment. A delicious irony that a Souness transfer could have led to the whole big hoose of cards falling...

All former Rangers managers and players who became managers have form when it comes to paying top dollar for players from David Murray's Rangers.
Souness received his EBT ten years after he left Rangers, coincidently at the same time he was signing Tugay from Rangers to Blackburn. Just a coincidence though.


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[jacomo]

Incredible that clown is still involved in the game given his behaviour when at the Record such as when emailing Whyte to ok what he put in an article and now still taking cash from Rangers. Only in Scotland would he still be this involved, absolutely shameless and total lack of integriity, he really is the archetypal succulent lamb.

Traynor is the perfect mouthpiece for The Rangers though. A nasty piece of work with an overinflated sense of importance.

No wonder the hordes lap it up. He speaks their language.

[ACLeith]

All former Rangers managers and players who became managers have form when it comes to paying top dollar for players from David Murray's Rangers.
Souness received his EBT ten years after he left Rangers, coincidently at the same time he was signing Tugay from Rangers to Blackburn. Just a coincidence though.

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IIRC, the BBC programme by Mark Daly implied very strongly that the 2 actions were linked though they had to watch what they said as I guess there is no proof.

[CentreLine]

IIRC, the BBC programme by Mark Daly implied very strongly that the 2 actions were linked though they had to watch what they said as I guess there is no proof.

But it does rather look like the BBC have backed off talking about The Rangers problems since they renegotiated their return to cover games at Ibrox. Sad really that this shower seem to still manage to manipulate the press right up to and including the National Broadcaster. The mainstream media should hang its collective head in shame at their part in this mess.

[Treadstone]

Not so sure about his version of how HMRC became aware of the EBT issue. Other than that, thus far seems pretty decent.

Willie Mackay sets off all sorts of klaxons where finance and football intersect.

[Geo_1875]

It certainly read like the kind of tripe Traynor has penned in the past.

The archetypal keyboard warrior - hiding behind the identity of Rangers or King to publish intemperate rants.

I imagine him reading that out from the top of the marble staircase with union flags as a backdrop.

[Ozyhibby]

But it does rather look like the BBC have backed off talking about The Rangers problems since they renegotiated their return to cover games at Ibrox. Sad really that this shower seem to still manage to manipulate the press right up to and including the National Broadcaster. The mainstream media should hang its collective head in shame at their part in this mess.

Luckily we don't have to rely on the mainstream media any more.


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[GreenLake]

They will always want the pitch to be tilted in their favor. Like Rockefeller, they think "competition is a sin".

What is good for Scottish football? Competition.

Competition is the very thing that cheats seek to destroy.

[MrSmith]

Willie Mackay sets off all sorts of klaxons where finance and football intersect.


He definitely does and is an inextricable link between this whole EBT/cheating fiasco. Hope he gets done too!!!!

[Mikey09]

They will always want the pitch to be tilted in their favor. Like Rockefeller, they think "competition is a sin".

What is good for Scottish football? Competition.

Competition is the very thing that cheats seek to destroy.


What a fantastic post. :top marks

[Radium]

Was working last night and had Sportsound on... Yes I know!! I was so angered by the Rangers apologists especially Richard Wilson, I think that's his name, I text them to let them know my views. This was more to get it off my chest, however they read it out. I won't bore you all with what I said but it was all facts. Now when I said they read it out they read out MOST of it... Missing out one sentance at the end that stated, "Rangers, just like Hearts, have been a complete embarrassment to Scottish football over these past few years". This one bit wasn't read out... Wonder why?!

In my opinion Richard Wilson currently sums up most of what has been wrong with sports journalist throughout this saga. He makes what could be a cogent and valid point, but does nothing to establish the facts.

His point is that 'it may not be possible for the SPFL to punish TRFC re EBTs and the failure to pay tax, because the rules at the time were different and current rules cannot be applied retrospectively.'

I must admit that I do not know the answer, but would have expected that given he made the point on Monday's show, that he would have looked into it and been able to be fairly definitive when discussed on Wednesday.

Good interview with meatball though.

[Peevemor]

In my opinion Richard Wilson currently sums up most of what has been wrong with sports journalist throughout this saga...

I don't believe it!

[ACLeith]

But it does rather look like the BBC have backed off talking about The Rangers problems since they renegotiated their return to cover games at Ibrox. Sad really that this shower seem to still manage to manipulate the press right up to and including the National Broadcaster. The mainstream media should hang its collective head in shame at their part in this mess.

:top marks

Craigie boy threatened them with legal action over the first programme but as every part was backed up with real evidence then that was far as he went. And the BBC went ahead with the second programme. We now need Mark Daly to complete the trilogy but would they have the guts to let him do that now? :rolleyes:

[Glesgahibby]

In my opinion Richard Wilson currently sums up most of what has been wrong with sports journalist throughout this saga. He makes what could be a cogent and valid point, but does nothing to establish the facts.

His point is that 'it may not be possible for the SPFL to punish TRFC re EBTs and the failure to pay tax, because the rules at the time were different and current rules cannot be applied retrospectively.'

I must admit that I do not know the answer, but would have expected that given he made the point on Monday's show, that he would have looked into it and been able to be fairly definitive when discussed on Wednesday.

Good interview with meatball though.
Another way of saying the LNS report is binding.
they always quote that" because of the LNS report the question of inelagble players was dealt with"
now they are saying the SFA need to wait to see if there is an appeal regarding the ebt verdict.
why did they not wait for any appeal before lord nimmos report?
the LNS report will be thrown out!

[Ozyhibby]

Another way of saying the LNS report is binding.
they always quote that" because of the LNS report the question of inelagble players was dealt with"
now they are saying the SFA need to wait to see if there is an appeal regarding the ebt verdict.
why did they not wait for any appeal before lord nimmos report?
the LNS report will be thrown out!

By not paying the fine, Sevco have not accepted LNS's verdict so it should be set aside and a new enquiry launched.


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[Glesgahibby]

By not paying the fine, Sevco have not accepted LNS's verdict so it should be set aside and a new enquiry launched.


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Did they not pay it via default,as in the SFA took it from there end of season money?
I hope I'm wrong :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Did they not pay it via default,as in the SFA took it from there end of season money?
I hope I'm wrong :greengrin

No it's still outstanding.
£250k + £150k costs


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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/13/the-shirebrook-iceberg/


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[Ozyhibby]

"The team are paid by Sevco, play at a ground owned by Sevco, trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco, fans buy tickets from Sevco"

Yesterday's quote from Charles Green's Lawyer.
Has anyone managed to find this anywhere in the mainstream press?


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[Glesgahibby]

No it's still outstanding.
£250k + £150k costs


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Cheers ozz :aok:

[southsider]

Reading JJ's latest blog he seems to think MA might try to get King struck off as he was a director of a company (old co) that wilfully made false statements to HMRC. Also could King and D. Murray be charged with deception and fraud ?

[JeMeSouviens]

Reading JJ's latest blog he seems to think MA might try to get King struck off as he was a director of a company (old co) that wilfully made false statements to HMRC. Also could King and D. Murray be charged with deception and fraud ?

Covered many, many times mainly by CWG. Yes, but you'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they set out with the intention of deliberately defrauding the revenue of money they knew they had a cast iron obligation to pay and not just to exploit what they thought was a loophole but later turned out not to be.

[CropleyWasGod]

Reading JJ's latest blog he seems to think MA might try to get King struck off as he was a director of a company (old co) that wilfully made false statements to HMRC. Also could King and D. Murray be charged with deception and fraud ?

JJ, as ever, is playing fast and loose with the facts.

Directors can't be "struck off", as he puts it. They can be disqualified, which TBF is probably what he means.

They can't be disqualified for lying to HMRC. That might disqualify thousands :greengrin

This is a list of red-card offences. Take yer pick......

allowing a company to continue trading when it can’t pay its debts

not keeping proper company accounting records

not sending accounts and returns to Companies House

not paying tax owed by the company

using company money or assets for personal benefit

[southsider]

Covered many, many times mainly by CWG. Yes, but you'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they set out with the intention of deliberately defrauding the revenue of money they knew they had a cast iron obligation to pay and not just to exploit what they thought was a loophole but later turned out not to be.

Did Campbell Ogilvie to oversea those contracts and did he choose not to disclose this to the SFA ? IMO they all knew what they were doing was illegal and they chose to carry on reguardless thinking the SFA were too scared (and still are) to challenge them. We need action and I hope our club is to the forefront of "sporting integrity" again.

[CropleyWasGod]

Covered many, many times mainly by CWG. Yes, but you'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they set out with the intention of deliberately defrauding the revenue of money they knew they had a cast iron obligation to pay and not just to exploit what they thought was a loophole but later turned out not to be.

You calling me repetitive? :cb

You're right, though. In simple terms, it's the difference between a conversation that goes "I know of a way to pay less tax, legitimately. Let's do it." and one that goes "I know of a way to pay less tax. It's against the law, but let's do it anyway."

[CropleyWasGod]

Did Campbell Ogilvie to oversea those contracts and did he choose not to disclose this to the SFA ? IMO they all knew what they were doing was illegal and they chose to carry on reguardless thinking the SFA were too scared (and still are) to challenge them. We need action and I hope our club is to the forefront of "sporting integrity" again.

They didn't "know" that what they were doing was illegal.

They believed that the scheme was legal and, up to a point, they were correct to do so. They screwed up on its operation, though.

[Ozyhibby]

Did Campbell Ogilvie to oversea those contracts and did he choose not to disclose this to the SFA ? IMO they all knew what they were doing was illegal and they chose to carry on reguardless thinking the SFA were too scared (and still are) to challenge them. We need action and I hope our club is to the forefront of "sporting integrity" again.

Amit is getting back to us on that last point.


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[southsider]

They didn't "know" that what they were doing was illegal.

They believed that the scheme was legal and, up to a point, they were correct to do so. They screwed up on its operation, though.
I think they knew all along but they did not think they would get caught. They would have done were it not for that pesky Hector. But what do I know I'm just a guy who goes to work each day and who would not know an EBT if you hit me round the lugs wi it

[Scorrie]

They didn't "know" that what they were doing was illegal.

They believed that the scheme was legal and, up to a point, they were correct to do so. They screwed up on its operation, though.

If they thought it was legal, why did they issue side letters / contracts? Apologies if this is a daft question...

[jacomo]

They didn't "know" that what they were doing was illegal.

They believed that the scheme was legal and, up to a point, they were correct to do so. They screwed up on its operation, though.

HMRC is one thing.

You've got to ask why they didn't declare these EBTs to the SFA, though.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they thought it was legal, why did they issue side letters / contracts? Apologies if this is a daft question...

It's not a daft question.

The side-letters may be the smoking gun, of course. Thus far, it seems that they are the flaw in what was otherwise an OK scheme. Was that evidence of being badly advised, or was it evidence of fraud?

[Ozyhibby]

It's not a daft question.

The side-letters may be the smoking gun, of course. Thus far, it seems that they are the flaw in what was otherwise an OK scheme. Was that evidence of being badly advised, or was it evidence of fraud?

Their concealment from both the revenue and that SFA suggests fraud.


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[jacomo]

It's not a daft question.

The side-letters may be the smoking gun, of course. Thus far, it seems that they are the flaw in what was otherwise an OK scheme. Was that evidence of being badly advised, or was it evidence of fraud?

Aren't they evidence that EBTs were an integral part of employment contracts? I thought this was the 'common sense' judgement.

[HoboHarry]

I'm struggling to fathom why UEFA are not asking questions of the SFA?

[Scorrie]

I'm struggling to fathom why UEFA are not asking questions of the SFA?

Perhaps they're waiting for due process to be done? The EBT decision is likely to be appealed by The Rangers / King. See how that pans out?

[Glesgahibby]

It's not a daft question.

The side-letters may be the smoking gun, of course. Thus far, it seems that they are the flaw in what was otherwise an OK scheme. Was that evidence of being badly advised, or was it evidence of fraud?
Double barrel:wink:
con the SFA and hopefully keep the tax man happy.
as we know the tax man wasn't happy!
the tax man has proved,not loans but earnings!
Now it's over to the SFA,will they disagree with the tax man???:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

It's not a daft question.

The side-letters may be the smoking gun, of course. Thus far, it seems that they are the flaw in what was otherwise an OK scheme. Was that evidence of being badly advised, or was it evidence of fraud?

The side-letters are the smoking gun, but the scheme would still have been flawed without them (imo).

To successfully avoid tax, the payments into the EBT had to be made on the basis that they weren't as compensation for an employee carrying out their normal duties (aka emoluments). So:

- I say, that jolly nice employee of ours is a rather good egg, let's pay him a couple of £M in trust to keep him happy, is ok

but

- let's agree up front that our star midfielder will get £100K in trust per appearance for our football team that he's been employed to play for, isn't


Without the side letters, it would be more difficult to prove that the latter case was happening, but the payments *should* still be liable for tax. Football being the game it is, there was no way the players' agents were going to settle for a nod and a wink, hence the side letters and the ultimate unravelling.

[Smartie]

I'm struggling to fathom why UEFA are not asking questions of the SFA?

Glass houses and throwing stones?

UEFA have corruption issues of their own right now.

Although they might want to flex their muscles and be particularly heavy-handed on the next authority they rule over who misbehave?

On one level I'd love to see the SFA taken to task - the conduct of the people who held office at both Rangers and the SFA throughout this whole sorry ordeal is for me the greatest scandal.

Although I would hate to see the national team punished.

[JeMeSouviens]

You calling me repetitive? :cb

You're right, though. In simple terms, it's the difference between a conversation that goes "I know of a way to pay less tax, legitimately. Let's do it." and one that goes "I know of a way to pay less tax. It's against the law, but let's do it anyway."

I was thinking more, "patient". :wink:

[Glesgahibby]

Perhaps they're waiting for due process to be done? The EBT decision is likely to be appealed by The Rangers / King. See how that pans out?
I think BDO"oldco"are the only ones who can appeal.
The rangers/king "newco or sevco" are a different entity.
If BDO appeal and lose they will pay costs and have a smaller pot.
if BDO appeal and win they won't pay costs and have the same pot.
A bit like putting a bet on to only win back your stake or lose your stake.

[Geo_1875]

I think BDO"oldco"are the only ones who can appeal.
The rangers/king "newco or sevco" are a different entity.
If BDO appeal and lose they will pay costs and have a smaller pot.
if BDO appeal and win they won't pay costs and have the same pot.
A bit like putting a bet on to only win back your stake or lose your stake.

If they appeal and lose HMRC get the pot (or most of it). If they appeal and win the other creditors get the pot. No skin off BDO's nose either way.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they appeal and lose HMRC get the pot (or most of it). If they appeal and win the other creditors get the pot. No skin off BDO's nose either way.

It is, though.

As has been said, they would incur costs in an appeal, unless another of the Murray companies takes them.

[Spike Mandela]

Celtic statement stirs up the Sevco hornets nest......twitter is a hoot.:greengrin

http://www.celticfc.net/news/9522

[Treadstone]

Celtic statement stirs up the Sevco hornets nest......twitter is a hoot.:greengrin

http://www.celticfc.net/news/9522

A bit less aggressive than Sevcos but plays to the hordes.

[jacomo]

A bit less aggressive than Sevcos but plays to the hordes.

A bit less aggressive?

Playing the home crowd is fine - every club is entitled to look after their own interests.

The Rangers statement - with its threatening sign off - was a disgrace.

[steakbake]

Celtic statement stirs up the Sevco hornets nest......twitter is a hoot.:greengrin

http://www.celticfc.net/news/9522

I think it's a fair statement, to be honest. Direct. Have Hibs said anything?

Some might see it as trolling, but I think it's a relatively dignified response in comparison to King's arrogant, glib and shameless outburst yesterday.

[Spike Mandela]

I think it's a fair statement, to be honest. Direct. Have Hibs said anything?

Some might see it as trolling, but I think it's a relatively dignified response in comparison to King's arrogant, glib and shameless outburst yesterday.

Agreed and certainly mirrors my sentiments. You can feel Sevco fans seethe as well.:cb

[tamig]

I think it's a fair statement, to be honest. Direct. Have Hibs said anything?

Some might see it as trolling, but I think it's a relatively dignified response in comparison to King's arrogant, glib and shameless outburst yesterday.

Rod made countless statements about sporting integrity back in the admin days. I think he invented the phrase. I can't see why our stance would change or why we'd need to reiterate it.

[wills]

Tbf he's got a point.

As far as I know they won Div 3 and Div 2 titles legitimately (albeit by spending a huge amount of money).

What other history do they have?

Quality 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄

[Blaster]

Rod made countless statements about sporting integrity back in the admin days. I think he invented the phrase. I can't see why our stance would change or why we'd need to reiterate it.

I agree. No statement from hibs required

[steakbake]

Rod made countless statements about sporting integrity back in the admin days. I think he invented the phrase. I can't see why our stance would change or why we'd need to reiterate it.

No, I wasn't really asking for that reason. I just hadn't been aware of the club saying anything in light of the last couple of weeks. It might become necessary the more we get into descriptions of armageddon.

With the Celtic statement, though, I think they've probably had a lot of questions for a response. I don't see any problem with the one they've come out with.

[adhibs]

Celtic statement stirs up the Sevco hornets nest......twitter is a hoot.:greengrin

http://www.celticfc.net/news/9522

Haha that cant have been released than for any other rrason other than stirring things up.

We feature very heavily in the article about their formation which is at the side of the statement. No mention of them stealing our players unsurprisingly

[Smartie]

I don't think we need to hear anything from Hibs.

Let Rangers keep making statements and making fools of themselves. That vitriolic rant yesterday was an embarrassment.

Whilst I agree with the Celtic statement and think it is fairly restrained and dignified I don't really think that it was necessary other than to fan flames and appease their own hordes.

[Ozyhibby]

I think a statement would be a good idea, especially when we get a statement for days off these day anyway. [emoji3]


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[steakbake]

I don't think we need to hear anything from Hibs.

Let Rangers keep making statements and making fools of themselves. That vitriolic rant yesterday was an embarrassment.

Whilst I agree with the Celtic statement and think it is fairly restrained and dignified I don't really think that it was necessary other than to fan flames and appease their own hordes.

I'm not so sure - I bet they're being contacted by journos obsessed with the OF, trying to find out what they think. There was that pitiful story the other day in the Telegraph (I think) about how other Scottish clubs had spoken 'off the record' to say they are concerned about trophy stripping because they could be financially affected. This just puts CFC's view in the open and is not an unreasonable stance.

I don't think they need to appease their hordes - RIFC is doing enough on its own right now.

[hibs0666]

Celtic statement stirs up the Sevco hornets nest......twitter is a hoot.:greengrin

http://www.celticfc.net/news/9522

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?

[Callum_62]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?

A decade of cheating in our league they were in -and who happen to be Rangers closest rivals

I would say its every clubs business

[GreenLake]

The Huns seem to have escaped thus far with very little treatment to cause rehabilitation.

[hibs0666]

A decade of cheating in our league they were in -and who happen to be Rangers closest rivals

I would say its every clubs business

Nope, there is an on-going process. Typical Celtic, horrible club.

[Pete]

A decade of cheating in our league they were in -and who happen to be Rangers closest rivals

I would say its every clubs business

:agree:

[Ozyhibby]

Nope, there is an on-going process. Typical Celtic, horrible club.

It's a perfectly reasonable and balanced statement.
Dave King's on the other hand.....


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[lord bunberry]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?
Because they lost out more than any other club due to the Huns cheating. I presume the statement was released after pressure from their fans.
What business do Sevco have commenting on titles won by a previous incarnation of their club.

[wills]

Glass houses and throwing stones?

UEFA have corruption issues of their own right now.

Although they might want to flex their muscles and be particularly heavy-handed on the next authority they rule over who misbehave?

On one level I'd love to see the SFA taken to task - the conduct of the people who held office at both Rangers and the SFA throughout this whole sorry ordeal is for me the greatest scandal.

Although I would hate to see the national team punished.

Is there any possibility of Police Scotland investigating the SFA on fraud and deception with appointment of Ogillvy?

[GreenOnions]

I agree. No statement from hibs required

I agree with that too. Unless it's absolutely necessary I think we should stay silent -especially as we're rivals in the Championship this season.

We all know what Rangers fans are like - particularly the travelling support - and it could prove inflammatory at games v Rangers if Hibs got involved.

Let others do the talking here. I sense there is a good long road ahead on this issue. We don't want it interfering with our requirement to beat TRFC this season.

[MrSmith]

Have to say, Celtic's statement is awesome! It is one hell of a shot across succulent lambs bow ...

Its what it doesn't say but what it infers is really interesting 😋

[God Petrie]

Hibs official statement was made years ago:

http://i.imgur.com/zQ0ZM6g.jpg

[ehf]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?

:shocked: Didn't see that one coming...

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there any possibility of Police Scotland investigating the SFA on fraud and deception with appointment of Ogillvy?
Not sure what you mean. Do you think there was fraud involved in appointing him?

If it's that he was in office having been involved in a tax - avoidance scam, I can't see why PS would be interested.

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[EH6 Hibby]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?

Do you work for The Rangers or something?

You always seem to be defending them.

[Ozyhibby]

http://thecelticblog.com/2015/11/blogs/radio-journalist-slanders-all-non-sevco-fans-as-pressure-for-inquiry-increases


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[Smartie]

Not sure what you mean. Do you think there was fraud involved in appointing him?

If it's that he was in office having been involved in a tax - avoidance scam, I can't see why PS would be interested.

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There's something a bit whiffy about the names that keep on cropping up throughout this saga, I'm referring mainly to Campbell Ogilvie, and Andrew Dickson.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I belive they were both at Ibrox during the EBT years, had a role in setting up and administering them and in Ogilvie's case benefitted financially from them. Dave King was on the Oldco board, now he's the newco chairman. Did Ogilvie not have a role to play in passing King as "fit and proper" to run a football club? What was the role of the SFA in the 5 party agreement and who was involved? What was that involvement and was there a conflict of interest? When does "just not cricket" become criminal involvement, fraud and as has now been brought up "serious organised crime"?

I honestly don't know but getting to the bottom of this is of way more interest to me than stripping titles.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://thecelticblog.com/2015/11/blogs/radio-journalist-slanders-all-non-sevco-fans-as-pressure-for-inquiry-increases


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Get back under your rock.

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[Ozyhibby]

Get back under your rock.

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[emoji23]


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[stokesmessiah]

Do you work for The Rangers or something?

You always seem to be defending them.

Was just wondering the same and I seen your comment.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Got to question SFA on passing King as fit and proper....Scandalous in itself.

King should be cited for his aggressive statement yesterday, will it happen, not a snowball's chance in hell..........Not with the shyster's running our game.

[hibs0666]

Do you work for The Rangers or something?

You always seem to be defending them.

Nah but Uncle Dave is seriously misunderstood 😉

[Hibernia&Alba]

Got to question SFA on passing King as fit and proper....Scandalous in itself.

King should be cited for his aggressive statement yesterday, will it happen, not a snowball's chance in hell..........Not with the shyster's running our game.

King (Billy) is just your typical hun: uneducated, narrow minded, hypocritical and an establishment sycophant though they despise him. Yet you're right, he'll get away with it.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/from-benevolence-to-belligerence/


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[Scorrie]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/from-benevolence-to-belligerence/


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This would support the view that taking on Ashley is a bad move. Punching a grizzly bear was how one poster on here put it. Ashley is ruthless and very rich.

[Kato]

I honestly don't know but getting to the bottom of this is of way more interest to me than stripping titles.

Same here. I think Alex Thomson's idea of the asterisk next to that year's winners name works but don't really care about that either.

What concerns me is if there was any conspiracy or individual committing acts/crimes that gave teams an edge in that era.

Campbell Ogilvie's name pops up at Rangers when they were running the EBT scheme which has now been shown to have been illegal. He was with Hearts who were filtering wages subject to Lithuanian tax to 19 of their "loanees". He was also with the SFA who deemed the owners "fit and proper". To me that seems worth investigating. No one in MSM seems interested in asking questions on this. Given their track record that's seems fishy. The game is riddled with corruption and it's not beyond the bounds of reason that it isn't here. The The Rangers on field "resurrection" that drapes the press is the window-dressing to what is actually happening the sport.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ogilvie has dubious history, and Doncaster is not fit to run our game..............

[JimBHibees]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?

You've got to be kidding, they have been the club most affected and have every right to make such a statement.

[Kato]

What business is it of Celtic to comment on this?



In what way is it not? In fact in what way is it not Hibs' business? Hibs players were enticed away to Ibrox. For players moves like that are for their career but I'm sure the EBT offer would make the idea enticier. Celtic did the same in 1887-88. We still mump about those illegal payments.

[GreenLake]

SFA is the microcosm, FIFA is the macrocosm.

[jacomo]

You've got to be kidding, they have been the club most affected and have every right to make such a statement.

I get what you're saying, but every club that competed against Rangers during the EBT period was affected. Celtc have the right to express their opinion, but don't single them out as the main victim here.

We've all been cheated.

[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/from-benevolence-to-belligerence/


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Phil is creaming himself. :greengrin

[steakbake]

Phil is creaming himself. :greengrin

Ha yeah but I suppose he feels vindicated. Quite rightly.

[Onion]

A bit less aggressive?

Playing the home crowd is fine - every club is entitled to look after their own interests.

The Rangers statement - with its threatening sign off - was a disgrace.

But so in keeping with their bigoted, aggressive attitudes to everyone they come into contact with. The Rangers Football Club attracts deadbeats and life's failures, who feel the world owes them. Huns the lot of them :aok:

[Onion]

By not paying the fine, Sevco have not accepted LNS's verdict so it should be set aside and a new enquiry launched.


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Absolutely 100% correct :agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

King has been monumentally stupid to cross Ashley. It was a simpleton's indulgence to try and get the thickoid masses on his side, and provide a smokescreen that despite putting nothing into the club, unlike his predecessors, he is the real deal. If anything he lacks the savvy and guile of the Greens and Whytes. Ashley will not only destroy him, he will drag the SFA into this vortex, and expose their corrupt, incompetent folly.

Murray has left Rangers a poisonous snake pit of a club, and it's bizarre sense of bigoted idiot fan entitlement and twisted corruption will continue to sabotage it.

[JimmyL]

Every club should be standing up to them and making a statement

[JimBHibees]

I get what you're saying, but every club that competed against Rangers during the EBT period was affected. Celtc have the right to express their opinion, but don't single them out as the main victim here.

We've all been cheated.

I was initially responding to a post saying that it was none of Celtics business.

Agree entirely the whole game has been cheated and yet according to Rangers they are the victims. Sickening and the lily livered authorities and succulent lamb MSM have emboldened them by allowing them to paint this picture

[Spike Mandela]

I was initially responding to a post saying that it was none of Celtics business.

Agree entirely the whole game has been cheated and yet according to Rangers they are the victims. Sickening and the lily livered authorities and succulent lamb MSM have emboldened them by allowing them to paint this picture

The Daily Record in particular (with hypocricy level on high) likes to expose wealthy tax evaders and cheats of all kinds on it's front pages whilst defending them, working for them and justifying them on their back pages.

[JimBHibees]

The Daily Record in particular (with hypocricy level on high) likes to expose wealthy tax evaders and cheats of all kinds on it's front pages whilst defending them, working for them and justifying them on their back pages.

Absolutely complete biased rag of a paper. Succulent lamb alive and kicking.

[southsider]

Absolutely 100% correct :agree:

I agree but would it be legal. SFA "spokesman" saying the matter has been dealt with and titles cannot be striped. Total fudge, the clubs ARE the SFA so the clubs must change the ruling.

[Scorrie]

I agree but would it be legal. SFA "spokesman" saying the matter has been dealt with and titles cannot be striped. Total fudge, the clubs ARE the SFA so the clubs must change the ruling.

If clubs feel strongly enough about this can they call a vote of no confidence in the current SFA board and replace them? Not sure of its constitution but assume something along these lines could be done.

[chinaman]

King has been monumentally stupid to cross Ashley. It was a simpleton's indulgence to try and get the thickoid masses on his side, and provide a smokescreen that despite putting nothing into the club, unlike his predecessors, he is the real deal. If anything he lacks the savvy and guile of the Greens and Whytes. Ashley will not only destroy him, he will drag the SFA into this vortex, and expose their corrupt, incompetent folly.

Murray has left Rangers a poisonous snake pit of a club, and it's bizarre sense of bigoted idiot fan entitlement and twisted corruption will continue to sabotage it.

Superb post

[Ozyhibby]

It's a sad state of affairs when someone like Mike Ashley is seen to stand for truth and justice but that's where we are.


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[pundy man]

Superb post
Ashley will destroy King. Their fans will be pleading for Mercy to Ashley very soon and I can see him taking over and have them in the palm of his hands.

[Argylehibby]

If they thought it was legal, why did they issue side letters / contracts? Apologies if this is a daft question...

Players agents would want some security that their players would get paid what was being offered. Would you trust them when they say sign here and we will pay you x amount on this contract. We will also pay you Y amount through the EBT but we can't give you that in writing you will just need to trust us!

[H18S NX]

Every club should be standing up to them and making a statement...Absolutely Jimmy,we should all take the stance that Celtic have done,and let them know we shall not be threatened by their bully-boy tactics....:aok:

[CraigHibee]

Do you work for The Rangers or something?

You always seem to be defending them.

check his knuckles for scrape marks, that will confirm it :wink:

[hibs0666]

check his knuckles for scrape marks, that will confirm it :wink:

Wnak 😉

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.stand-free.com/articles/rangers-fraudulent-titles-must-be-stripped/


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[GreenLake]

Every UK resident supporter of every club has paid a portion of their taxes towards the millions left unpaid during the Huns and the Yams periods of cheating.

[Jim44]

Given that King's money, if he has any, is tied up in South Africa, has nobody questioned what means, whether legal or illegal, he will adopt to plough money into Sevco? I'm sure the muppets got behind him because he was a prospective sugar daddy, not because of his undivided loyalty to Hunism.

[PatHead]

Given that King's money, if he has any, is tied up in South Africa, has nobody questioned what means, whether legal or illegal, he will adopt to plough money into Sevco? I'm sure the muppets got behind him because he was a prospective sugar daddy, not because of his undivided loyalty to Hunism.

Sure he made a 1.5m payment through a family trust allegedly.

[greenginger]

Sure he made a 1.5m payment through a family trust allegedly.


Yeah, but there's also the story King borrowed the £ 1.5 million from another Rangers investor with the promise of repayment when BDO divided up the creditors pot.

Unfortunately for the lender BDO ruled King was not a creditor of Oldco Rangers.

[Jack Hackett]

Yeah, but there's also the story King borrowed the £ 1.5 million from another Rangers investor with the promise of repayment when BDO divided up the creditors pot.

Unfortunately for the lender BDO ruled King was not a creditor of Oldco Rangers.


A fool and his money.....:greengrin

[PatHead]

Yeah, but there's also the story King borrowed the £ 1.5 million from another Rangers investor with the promise of repayment when BDO divided up the creditors pot.

Unfortunately for the lender BDO ruled King was not a creditor of Oldco Rangers.

Thanks for cheering me up on a grey, damp afternoon.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yeah, but there's also the story King borrowed the £ 1.5 million from another Rangers investor with the promise of repayment when BDO divided up the creditors pot.

Unfortunately for the lender BDO ruled King was not a creditor of Oldco Rangers.

Poetic justice:greengrin

[emerald green]

This may be going over old ground. I've not read back the thread. Anyway...

Speaking in 2012, King said: "With regard to the EBTs, I was on the board (of Rangers) so I have to take some of the responsibility. And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably did gain some competitive advantage."

GASL seems to have changed his tune now. IMHO there is no "probably" about it. They did, and there must be sanctions against cheating.

Even without the EBTs, Rangers (as was) already had a huge inbuilt financial advantage over every other club in Scotland except Celtic, yet that wasn't enough for them it would appear.

[grunt]

http://www.stand-free.com/articles/rangers-fraudulent-titles-must-be-stripped/


That's a very good article. Particularly liked this bit
Many teams in Scotland have been ejected from cup competitions over the years for fielding a single ineligible player, often innocently. Rangers knowingly and for good reason fielded ineligible teams in every game they played for a decade. Every game should have been forfeited 0-3 on this basis alone.

[jacomo]

This may be going over old ground. I've not read back the thread. Anyway...

Speaking in 2012, King said: "With regard to the EBTs, I was on the board (of Rangers) so I have to take some of the responsibility. And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably did gain some competitive advantage."

GASL seems to have changed his tune now. IMHO there is no "probably" about it. They did, and there must be sanctions against cheating.

Even without the EBTs, Rangers (as was) already had a huge inbuilt financial advantage over every other club in Scotland except Celtic, yet that wasn't enough for them it would appear.

While it's nice not seeing or hearing from Neil Doncaster in a while, his continued silence on this issue is telling. Just checked SPFL website (and SFA for good measure), and there is no statement at all on the revelation that Rangers didn't properly register their players for a decade.

Surprised? Not one bit. I bet Doncaster is wetting the bed every night, in case details of his dodgy deals with Sevco come to light.

[HoboHarry]

While it's nice not seeing or hearing from Neil Doncaster in a while, his continued silence on this issue is telling. Just checked SPFL website (and SFA for good measure), and there is no statement at all on the revelation that Rangers didn't properly register their players for a decade.

Surprised? Not one bit. I bet Doncaster is wetting the bed every night, in case details of his dodgy deals with Sevco come to light.
The Doncaster is the thing that really confuses me. He has no lifelong affiliation to Rangers having been born and raised in England. What is his motivation to protect them?

[Spike Mandela]

While it's nice not seeing or hearing from Neil Doncaster in a while, his continued silence on this issue is telling. Just checked SPFL website (and SFA for good measure), and there is no statement at all on the revelation that Rangers didn't properly register their players for a decade.

Surprised? Not one bit. I bet Doncaster is wetting the bed every night, in case details of his dodgy deals with Sevco come to light.

Hopefully they have learnt their lesson and are instead waiting on any appeal procedure to run it's course before making a statement.

However, I suspect they have lawyers currently beavering away on a method of being seen to 'deal' with this situation whilst inflicting no damage on Rangers whatsoever.

[jacomo]

The Doncaster is the thing that really confuses me. He has no lifelong affiliation to Rangers having been born and raised in England. What is his motivation to protect them?

He's weak and lacks imagination. He's a poor administrator and lacks gravitas. The Old Firm can manipulate him at will.

That's about it, really.

[s.a.m]

The Doncaster is the thing that really confuses me. He has no lifelong affiliation to Rangers having been born and raised in England. What is his motivation to protect them?

The way he has talked in the past suggests that he looks at Scottish football from a business perspective, and mainly as a product to be marketed and managed, with sporting considerations a bit of an afterthought. The absence of The Rangers from the SPL and the old firm games from the football calendar are a problem for him. I think he just doesn't get it.

[HoboHarry]

The way he has talked in the past suggests that he looks at Scottish football from a business perspective, and mainly as a product to be marketed and managed, with sporting considerations a bit of an afterthought. The absence of The Rangers from the SPL and the old firm games from the football calendar are a problem for him. I think he just doesn't get it.
But his use of the term "Armageddon" when Sevco went breast skywards showed a detachment from reality so acute that it was blindingly obvious he was not fit for purpose.

[s.a.m]

But his use of the term "Armageddon" when Sevco went breast skywards showed a detachment from reality so acute that it was blindingly obvious he was not fit for purpose.

Completely agree - I wasn't sticking up for him.:greengrin

[grunt]

The way he has talked in the past suggests that he looks at Scottish football from a business perspective, and mainly as a product to be marketed and managed... He doesn't seem to be doing that very well.


But his use of the term "Armageddon" when Sevco went breast skywards showed a detachment from reality so acute that it was blindingly obvious he was not fit for purpose.Not the best marketing message. Seems a bit like Gerald Ratner's "crap" comment about his shop's jewellery.

[crash]

http://www.stand-free.com/articles/rangers-fraudulent-titles-must-be-stripped/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting article,surely Hearts would also face similar penalties, that would be a shame.

[jacomo]

Interesting article,surely Hearts would also face similar penalties, that would be a shame.

The punishment would relate to fielding players that were not properly registered. I genuinely don't know how this applies to players 'on loan' from Kaunas. However, if Skacel (or anyone else) was contracted to Hertz but they did not declare full details of his contract, then they should be punished too.

[crash]

The punishment would relate to fielding players that were not properly registered. I genuinely don't know how this applies to players 'on loan' from Kaunas. However, if Skacel (or anyone else) was contracted to Hertz but they did not declare full details of his contract, then they should be punished too.
I was referring to the situation which arose when a mortgage application by a first team player was rejected after enquiries by the lender found his salary to be at minimum wage level. The actual figure he was earning was approx 20 times this.Campbell'EBT'Ogilvie was Managing Director at the PBS at this time.Get my drift?

[wills]

Not sure what you mean. Do you think there was fraud involved in appointing him

If it's that he was in office having been involved in a tax - avoidance scam, I can't see why PS would be interested.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Don't think it was fraud in appointing him, mote like incompetence, but how much did the SFA know about the side letters. Is there any other skeleton's in the SFA closet hidden by Ogilvie?

[Gmack7]

I was referring to the situation which arose when a mortgage application by a first team player was rejected after enquiries by the lender found his salary to be at minimum wage level. The actual figure he was earning was approx 20 times this.Campbell'EBT'Ogilvie was Managing Director at the PBS at this time.Get my drift?

careful now, it looks like you're implying shennanigans took place

[greenginger]

I was referring to the situation which arose when a mortgage application by a first team player was rejected after enquiries by the lender found his salary to be at minimum wage level. The actual figure he was earning was approx 20 times this.Campbell'EBT'Ogilvie was Managing Director at the PBS at this time.Get my drift?


I remember that one now. Any idea who the player was or the year ?

It will be on some Yam thread in the archives.

[Radium]

The way he has talked in the past suggests that he looks at Scottish football from a business perspective, and mainly as a product to be marketed and managed, with sporting considerations a bit of an afterthought. The absence of The Rangers from the SPL and the old firm games from the football calendar are a problem for him. I think he just doesn't get it.


When trying to explain the fixture debacles he kept referring to the SPFL a a trade federation. Just so out of touch with us customers...

[Spike Mandela]

People queuing up for Hibs players but nobody seems interested in Warburtons all conquering heroes ...surprise surprise.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/brighton-join-chase-jason-cummings-6834702

[Since90+2]

People queuing up for Hibs players but nobody seems interested in Warburtons all conquering heroes ...surprise surprise.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/brighton-join-chase-jason-cummings-6834702

I actually think in the case of Cummings thing like this could be a good thing.

He seems like a player and a lad in general who thrives on confidence, if he thinks all these top clubs down south are interested I think it will push him on rather than effect him negatively.

[Jim44]

People queuing up for Hibs players but nobody seems interested in Warburtons all conquering heroes ...surprise surprise.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/brighton-join-chase-jason-cummings-6834702

......... surprised that nobody seems interested in the Huns players or surprised that it is not being reported?

[Spike Mandela]

......... surprised that nobody seems interested in the Huns players or surprised that it is not being reported?

The latter obviously. However, this stance may change once King requires a player sold near the end of January to keep the lights on. Then the Record shall do his bidding.

[Jack]

I actually think in the case of Cummings thing like this could be a good thing.

He seems like a player and a lad in general who thrives on confidence, if he thinks all these top clubs down south are interested I think it will push him on rather than effect him negatively.

I don't think these are top clubs.

If Jase stays at Hibs a while longer and continues to improve then we'll see much better clubs than those sniffing about, probably still not top clubs though.

[Since90+2]

I don't think these are top clubs.

If Jase stays at Hibs a while longer and continues to improve then we'll see much better clubs than those sniffing about, probably still not top clubs though.

Depends how you define a top club I suppose. Brighton for instance are second top of the English Championship , have a brand new 30,000 seater stadium and have a good chance of playing in the Premier League next year.

For a player at Hibs currently plying his trade in the Scottish first division I would say comparatively they are a top club. All about levels though.

[MrSmith]

I don't get why we continue to give space, refer to and quote from that glib shameless liar of a rag!? How IPSO aren't all over them is a mystery? For me they are akin to the Sunday Sport rag of the 80's except the Sunday Sport knew it was full of sh ......

[Libby Hibby]

It's pure speculation created by the west coast media to try and disrupt our challenge...strange how there is no-one interested in Waghorn or Travenier but the usual 'we're going nowhere, The Rangers are a massive club' blah and 'we want to return this club to where it belongs' blah blah keeps on getting spouted out

[greenginger]

......... surprised that nobody seems interested in the Huns players or surprised that it is not being reported?


Maybe not their players, but .......


http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/fulham/next-permanent-manager


Warburton 16/1 for the Fulham post.


Come on Warby, you know you want to go home ! :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Although I haven't read about the case I guess the King outburst is to take attention away from the Green hearing where I imagine their Advocate is putting forward a different argument about the continuation of the club to the one the fans want to hear.

[Ozyhibby]

Although I haven't read about the case I guess the King outburst is to take attention away from the Green hearing where I imagine their Advocate is putting forward a different argument about the continuation of the club to the one the fans want to hear.

Correct 100%
It was a tough day in court for them and they managed to keep the whole thing out the press. Mission accomplished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[21.05.2016]

I don't think these are top clubs.

If Jase stays at Hibs a while longer and continues to improve then we'll see much better clubs than those sniffing about, probably still not top clubs though.

Absolutely. Important for him not to get too carried away and start thinking he's too big for hibs now. He's a great young prospect but he's still young and got lots to learn. If he keeps his feet on the ground, listens to the right people and stays a few more seasons at hibs learning and getting plenty game time experience under his belt then they're will be a bigger move in store for him.

Seen it too often, when young players start attracting a bit of attention and suddenly start to think they're bigger than they are which often results in them jumping at the first chance of a bigger club and usually damaging their progression in the game. Hopefully, like I say, Jason keeps his head down, listens to the right people and stays with hibs for a few more seasons to develop his game.

[21.05.2016]

It's pure speculation created by the west coast media to try and disrupt our challenge...strange how there is no-one interested in Waghorn or Travenier but the usual 'we're going nowhere, The Rangers are a massive club' blah and 'we want to return this club to where it belongs' blah blah keeps on getting spouted out

Yep, same old west coast media mind games and hun arse kissing.

[Onceinawhile]

Bit late.

[hibs0666]

Been reliably informed that a rangers player was arrested recently for breach of the peace and then resisting arrest. Wonder if it'll make the news.

It's Clark and has been in the Sun since Saturday. Fighting with the polls at queen street station apparently.

[bingo70]

Been reliably informed that a rangers player was arrested recently for breach of the peace and then resisting arrest. Wonder if it'll make the news.

Not sure if this is a whoosh moment but it's nikky Clarke, was in the papers today.

[Onceinawhile]

It's Clark and has been in the Sun since Saturday. Fighting with the polls at queen street station apparently.

Hahaha didn't know it was in the papers!

Why I was told in such a secretive manner is a mystery then!

[greenginger]

I see Douglas Park has rejoined the Sevco board,


http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14032994.Douglas_Park_joins_Rangers_board_for_a_se cond_time/


His son who replaced him when he stepped down is staying on the Board.

Power shift ? Bail out ? just likes the blazer :greengrin

[Jim44]

Not sure if this is a whoosh moment but it's nikky Clarke, was in the papers today.

Should that not be Nicked Clark?:greengrin

[jgl07]

It's pure speculation created by the west coast media to try and disrupt our challenge...strange how there is no-one interested in Waghorn or Travenier but the usual 'we're going nowhere, The Rangers are a massive club' blah and 'we want to return this club to where it belongs' blah blah keeps on getting spouted out

Both Waghorn and Tavernier have had plenty of chances down south and have found out. The Scottish Championship is probably about their level.

[Onion]

Both Waghorn and Tavernier have had plenty of chances down south and have found out. The Scottish Championship is probably about their level.

:agree: Both players who like to talk themselves up in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football, while failing miserably in the proper leagues. Barely professional level players.

[Smartie]

:agree: Both players who like to talk themselves up in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football, while failing miserably in the proper leagues. Barely professional level players.

Not sure I agree with this.

They are good players, not the world-beaters our media are bigging them up as but they are good players.

I think they'll be better for playing every week and also for playing with the pressure and expectation of winning every week.

If Tavernier can learn to defend he'll be a magnificent player. And I thought Waghorn was a real handful in our last game against them, he gave us more problems than Aberdeen or Dundee United did.

[w pilton hibby]

Maybe not their players, but .......


http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/fulham/next-permanent-manager


Warburton 16/1 for the Fulham post.


Come on Warby, you know you want to go home ! :greengrin

Warburton is having (another) pop at Stubbs.

http://m.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14033172.Rangers_boss_Mark_Warburton__Alan_Stubbs_ should_focus_on_Hibs__promotion_bid___not_my_Ibrox _budget/

[oldbutdim]

Warburton is having (another) pop at Stubbs.

http://m.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14033172.Rangers_boss_Mark_Warburton__Alan_Stubbs_ should_focus_on_Hibs__promotion_bid___not_my_Ibrox _budget/

It's fair enough really - saying football bosses should only talk about their own club.

He kinda spoils the effect by going on to talk about the Gunts and Hibs.


He really isn't too bright is he.

[Spike Mandela]

Warburton is having (another) pop at Stubbs.

http://m.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14033172.Rangers_boss_Mark_Warburton__Alan_Stubbs_ should_focus_on_Hibs__promotion_bid___not_my_Ibrox _budget/

Warburton starting to crack.......Stubbsy is getting to him.:aok:

[CallumLaidlaw]

It's fair enough really - saying football bosses should only talk about their own club.

He kinda spoils the effect by going on to talk about the Gunts and Hibs.


He really isn't too bright is he.

I don't really see why it's taken him 2 weeks to comment on it. Again he looks an idiot tho without knowing the full story. AS was straight out asked by the Sportsound guys what the difference in budget was. And Warburton is daft to say how would he know. I'm sure players/staff/agents between the 2 teams talk and have an idea what wages players are on. I'm sure Warburton has an idea what wages Hibs players are on.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Not sure I agree with this.

They are good players, not the world-beaters our media are bigging them up as but they are good players.

I think they'll be better for playing every week and also for playing with the pressure and expectation of winning every week.

If Tavernier can learn to defend he'll be a magnificent player. And I thought Waghorn was a real handful in our last game against them, he gave us more problems than Aberdeen or Dundee United did.

Agree about tavernier but I think Waghorn has been nearly invisible in the last 2 games against us. In fairness he's looked decent in games against other sides in the league but feel he struggled to get space against us

[greenginger]

Warburton says, " ...... and I don't where he is getting the figures from ( Rangers player budget ) he is just picking figures out of the sky. "


Er , no, Rangers have published last years financial results with the first team playing budget detailed for all to see. ( £ 6.2 million )

Unless over-investing King has cut the player budget by a few million it is several times Hibs player budget.

[GreenLake]

It's fair enough really - saying football bosses should only talk about their own club.

He kinda spoils the effect by going on to talk about the Gunts and Hibs.


He really isn't too bright is he.

The Huns should finish their existential debate about what a club is before they talk about themselves.

Warburton is upset at getting a clubbing from Hibs - that's about the size of it.

[crewetollhibee]

Didn't stop the GASL talking about other clubs and their supporters with his thinly veiled threats, did it ?

[KeithTheHibby]

Warburton is a ****ing Hun twat - his ***** in that last link smacks of hypocrisy.

I'm sure he was talking about Scott Allan continually when those morons were putting in their abysmal bids for him.

I would really love it if we could win the league to shut that prick up and the hoardes of zombies that support that disgrace of a club.

[steakbake]

Warburton starting to crack.......Stubbsy is getting to him.:aok:

All very "respectfully", I'm sure...

[Jim44]

To be honest, Warburton touches upon this 'old topic' because of a direct question from the press, who, initially, are the ones trying to stir things up during a slow news period. I'm not defending the nature of his response, but I'm sure he was happy to get the opportunity to deflect attention away from the speculation of English clubs being interested in securing his services. It's a complete non-story in any case.

[ballengeich]

I see Douglas Park has rejoined the Sevco board,


http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14032994.Douglas_Park_joins_Rangers_board_for_a_se cond_time/


His son who replaced him when he stepped down is staying on the Board.

Power shift ? Bail out ? just likes the blazer :greengrin

My guess is that Park will replace King as chairman, be the main source for the loans needed to get the business through this season, and attempt to form a pragmatic working relationship with Ashley.

[hibs0666]

Agree about tavernier but I think Waghorn has been nearly invisible in the last 2 games against us. In fairness he's looked decent in games against other sides in the league but feel he struggled to get space against us

History will not be kind to Waghorn - he is destined to become one the worst centre forwards to play for the huns in modern times. However his striking buddy - Nicky Clark - could well be the worst bar none.

[greenginger]

To be honest, Warburton touches upon this 'old topic' because of a direct question from the press, who, initially, are the ones trying to stir things up during a slow news period. I'm not defending the nature of his response, but I'm sure he was happy to get the opportunity to deflect attention away from the speculation of English clubs being interested in securing his services. It's a complete non-story in any case.


Yeah, but Warburton just slavers nonsense and is never pulled up for it.

Another quote from Warby,

" if you ask about budgets , we had a smaller budget at Brentford and finished 5th. "

Er, no, Brentford's last accounts show a player's budget of £ 9.10 million.

And he's meant to be a City Wizz Kid ! :greengrin

[Jim44]

My guess is that Park will replace King as chairman, be the main source for the loans needed to get the business through this season, and attempt to form a pragmatic working relationship with Ashley.

Good call. " Taxi, taxi, my kingdom for a taxi ". "Well, Dave, will a bus do instead?" "Thanks, Douglas" Time will tell.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Another quote from Warby,

" if you ask about budgets , we had a smaller budget at Brentford and finished 5th. "

Er, no, Brentford's last accounts show a player's budget of £ 9.10 million.

And he's meant to be a City Wizz Kid ! :greengrin

I'm sure he would have been referring to other teams in The Championship down south. I still wish he would STFU for a while though.

[Springbank]

on the subject of Tavernier and Waghorn…

I think with Tavernier there is a player in there (though he was very quiet when up against John McGinn and sitting on an early booking)

But Waghorn really has serious question marks over his temperament.
The minute he or The The Rangers are under pressure he is a red card waiting to happen
He's been lucky in 4 games so far to not be red carded (Easter Road being one of them, the clash with Fyvie) and there were similar elbowing incidents against Falkirk, Livi and one other.

Watch him pick up suspensions from Christmas onwards, I would say

[Smartie]

on the subject of Tavernier and Waghorn…

I think with Tavernier there is a player in there (though he was very quiet when up against John McGinn and sitting on an early booking)

But Waghorn really has serious question marks over his temperament.
The minute he or The The Rangers are under pressure he is a red card waiting to happen
He's been lucky in 4 games so far to not be red carded (Easter Road being one of them, the clash with Fyvie) and there were similar elbowing incidents against Falkirk, Livi and one other.

Watch him pick up suspensions from Christmas onwards, I would say

I agree re Waghorn's temperament. Not too sure he'd get away with some of what he gets away with at any other club.

I maintain that I think he's a good player though - to the extent that if he were to pick up a silly suspension they'd be a far weaker side.

Same goes for Wallace or Tavernier - positions they have poor cover for and very strong players as first choices.

[grunt]

It is early on Monday morning but already we have a contender for arrogant jerk of the week. Here is Roger Mitchell who is apparently former SPL Chief Executive, on the Rangers saga. Some very enlightening thoughts on just what is important in Scottish football from a former chief.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment

Some choice comments:


I remember clearly our communication director so upset as I ripped into some smaller team overly celebratory for a one off cup win


Scottish football needs Rangers. They with Celtic represent I'd say 80% of all commercial value around the game. Without the Old Firm, Scottish football would have all the allure of indoor bowling from Coatbridge. Smaller teams can't accept this but they should go and work in the media for a week to understand really what their teams bring to the table. Really, try it.

[Smartie]

It is early on Monday morning but already we have a contender for arrogant jerk of the week. Here is Roger Mitchell who is apparently former SPL Chief Executive, on the Rangers saga. Some very enlightening thoughts on just what is important in Scottish football from a former chief.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment

Some choice comments:

Unbelievable.

You'd think that at some point someone in a position of power would recognise this as a problem that needs solving rather than an acceptable norm.

[JimBHibees]

It is early on Monday morning but already we have a contender for arrogant jerk of the week. Here is Roger Mitchell who is apparently former SPL Chief Executive, on the Rangers saga. Some very enlightening thoughts on just what is important in Scottish football from a former chief.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment

Some choice comments:

No wonder Mitchell was such an unmitigated disaster in this role given his attitude to the vast majority of teams highlighted in these comments.

[Treadstone]

Mitchell seems to know what the game needs now he is outside of it. When he was part of it he done nothing positive.
He tries to airbrush his gaffes as speaking his mind. His Partick Thistle smoking dope put down was particularly insulting and wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

Isn't he the guy who turned down £40m from Sky in favour of Setanta?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Here's a tweet from him after he appeared on Sportsound
"Rich" is Richard Wilson from the BBC who appeared with him


Rich, Fan demographic splits into a big % with only double digit IQ. Of the remainder big % totally blinded by hatred. How can u do it?

[monarch]

Warburton is having (another) pop at Stubbs.

http://m.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/14033172.Rangers_boss_Mark_Warburton__Alan_Stubbs_ should_focus_on_Hibs__promotion_bid___not_my_Ibrox _budget/



This is the revisiting of old news.It looks like the hand of Level 5 or whoever their current PR people are. The Glasgow Herald/Evening Times group print what they're told. Ra people have to have their attention turned away from the plethora of court cases that are currently exploding around them.

[high bee]

It is early on Monday morning but already we have a contender for arrogant jerk of the week. Here is Roger Mitchell who is apparently former SPL Chief Executive, on the Rangers saga. Some very enlightening thoughts on just what is important in Scottish football from a former chief.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment

Some choice comments:

Celtic fan hammering home how important the old firm are. His arrogance is summed up by the criticising if a smaller club celebrating a cup win.

As long as we've got folk in the Scottish football authorities begrudging anyone but the old firm winning then the game will never get better.

Sadly this will never change.

Can't believe he is trying to attribute the failure of the national team to the lack of Sevco in the premiership.

[Treadstone]

Here's a tweet from him after he appeared on Sportsound
"Rich" is Richard Wilson from the BBC who appeared with him

Says it all.

[lapsedhibee]

Isn't he the guy who turned down £40m from Sky?


That's him (http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/105-Governing-bodies/2650-mitchell-principles)

[GreenLake]

It is early on Monday morning but already we have a contender for arrogant jerk of the week. Here is Roger Mitchell who is apparently former SPL Chief Executive, on the Rangers saga. Some very enlightening thoughts on just what is important in Scottish football from a former chief.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment

Some choice comments:

Never heard of him. Scottish football won't change for the better with anyone like him in an executive position.

[brog]

Yeah, but Warburton just slavers nonsense and is never pulled up for it.

Another quote from Warby,

" if you ask about budgets , we had a smaller budget at Brentford and finished 5th. "

Er, no, Brentford's last accounts show a player's budget of £ 9.10 million.

And he's meant to be a City Wizz Kid ! :greengrin

As you say, top finance man & he can't see how AS would know the difference in budgets! Well the accounts is a decent place to start but that's probably too much of a stretch for a City genius. Agree with others though, a non story to fill pages when there's no games.

[Ozyhibby]

More lawyers to pay. [emoji3]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/6745226/Ex-Rangers-stars-sue-over-holiday-pay.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting that Sevco were allowed to sign players during the summer when they were in clear remuneration default?

Delivery of Contracts of Service
22. A Club must deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service andamendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreementsproviding for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actuallyincurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days ofsuch Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or,as the case may be, extended.
Default in Player and Football Manager/Coaching Staff Remuneration
E17 Except in circumstances where there is a bona fide dispute as to liability forpayment by the Club, where the Club is entitled to deduct or otherwise withholdpayment of a sum otherwise due or where the Club takes, suffers or is subject to anInsolvency Event, any Club which shall fail to pay any sum due by it to a Playerunder and in terms of that Player’s Contract of Service and/or any sum due by itunder a contract of employment to any Official engaged in football managementand/or football coaching (a “Remuneration Default”) shall be in breach of theseRules.
E18 Any Club which suffers or is subject to a Remuneration Default shall within 2 daysof such default notify the Secretary in writing of any such default with details of theamount(s) and Player(s) and/or Official(s) concerned and if it fails to so notify theSecretary it shall be in breach of these Rules.
E19 Any Club which commits a Remuneration Default shall not, except with the consentof the Board, be entitled or permitted to Register any Professional Player with theLeague and the League shall not register such a Player until the Board is satisfiedthat such Remuneration Default shall no longer continue or subsist.


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[AndyM_1875]

Celtic fan hammering home how important the old firm are. His arrogance is summed up by the criticising if a smaller club celebrating a cup win.

As long as we've got folk in the Scottish football authorities begrudging anyone but the old firm winning then the game will never get better.

Sadly this will never change.

Can't believe he is trying to attribute the failure of the national team to the lack of Sevco in the premiership.

Of course. But that mindset from Mitchell will have a lot of sympathy in the boardroom at Parkhead. All that "We stand alone" stuff was garbage to placate the fans who can drone on like broken records about Rangers/Sevco but the reality is that Peter Lawell has been downsizing and fire fighting financially for the last 3 years plugging an annual £10m hole in his accounts by selling his best players and now he's left with Efe Ambrose.

Make no mistake about it Celtic's financial health for next year (depends on is possibly too strong a word) will be a lot brighter with 4 games against Rangers on the card. If Rangers go up, Lawell is looking at two home fixtures where he can charge £50+ per ticket, increase ST prices, charge £1000 a plate hospitality, attract a ****load more in sponsorship and sell out his stadium. He will also get income from TV, and media rights for a fixture that will be marketed to the maximum as brand Old Firm whether we like it or not.
He won't get any of that playing Partick Thistle.

[oneone73]

Of course. But that mindset from Mitchell will have a lot of sympathy in the boardroom at Parkhead. All that "We stand alone" stuff was garbage to placate the fans who can drone on like broken records about Rangers/Sevco but the reality is that Peter Lawell has been downsizing and fire fighting financially for the last 3 years plugging an annual £10m hole in his accounts by selling his best players and now he's left with Efe Ambrose.

Make no mistake about it Celtic's financial health for next year (depends on is possibly too strong a word) will be a lot brighter with 4 games against Rangers on the card. If Rangers go up, Lawell is looking at two home fixtures where he can charge £50+ per ticket, increase ST prices, charge £1000 a plate hospitality, attract a ****load more in sponsorship and sell out his stadium. He will also get income from TV, and media rights for a fixture that will be marketed to the maximum as brand Old Firm whether we like it or not.
He won't get any of that playing Partick Thistle.

It might only be one home game. Who's to say that Sevco, if they scrape past team 11 in the play-offs, would make top 6?

[southsider]

Clarke got himself lifted on Saturday night for a run-in with the cops at Queen Street station. May be in real bother and his brother, who was arrested with him, apparently had a knife. The big L ?

[Smartie]

Clarke got himself lifted on Saturday night for a run-in with the cops at Queen Street station. May be in real bother and his brother, who was arrested with him, apparently had a knife. The big L ?

He's Sandy Clark's son isn't he?

Not a proud day for him, his sons getting into bother like that.

[Hibee87]

Clarke got himself lifted on Saturday night for a run-in with the cops at Queen Street station. May be in real bother and his brother, who was arrested with him, apparently had a knife. The big L ?

Where did you see this? I suppose it wont be widely reported like such an incident of being in a mcdonalds when others are throwing muffins, now thats headline news. Arrested with an accomplice with a knife? meh, wee article in the botttom corner of the paper.

[JeMeSouviens]

Of course. But that mindset from Mitchell will have a lot of sympathy in the boardroom at Parkhead. All that "We stand alone" stuff was garbage to placate the fans who can drone on like broken records about Rangers/Sevco but the reality is that Peter Lawell has been downsizing and fire fighting financially for the last 3 years plugging an annual £10m hole in his accounts by selling his best players and now he's left with Efe Ambrose.

Make no mistake about it Celtic's financial health for next year (depends on is possibly too strong a word) will be a lot brighter with 4 games against Rangers on the card. If Rangers go up, Lawell is looking at two home fixtures where he can charge £50+ per ticket, increase ST prices, charge £1000 a plate hospitality, attract a ****load more in sponsorship and sell out his stadium. He will also get income from TV, and media rights for a fixture that will be marketed to the maximum as brand Old Firm whether we like it or not.
He won't get any of that playing Partick Thistle.

Which is why I think it would ultimately be better for Scottish football as a whole if the New Huns keep making a total **** of things for as long as possible. Looking back to the "golden eras" of Scottish football, the 50s and the 80s (albeit in the latter case not for us :( ), what they have in common is that one half of the OF was going through a period of serious weakness. Celtc in the 50s, the Old Huns in the 80s.

As well as a more level playing field in Scotland, more of the best Scottish talent is going to play at a higher standard in England and more of our clubs are relying on youth. Both of these things will benefit the national side in the longer term.

[Treadstone]

.

Make no mistake about it Celtic's financial health for next year (depends on is possibly too strong a word) will be a lot brighter with 4 games against Rangers on the card. If Rangers go up, Lawell is looking at two home fixtures where he can charge £50+ per ticket, increase ST prices, charge £1000 a plate hospitality, attract a ****load more in sponsorship and sell out his stadium. He will also get income from TV, and media rights for a fixture that will be marketed to the maximum as brand Old Firm whether we like it or not.
He won't get any of that playing Partick Thistle.

£1000 a plate hospitality ? I find that very hard to believe.

[greenginger]

Of course. But that mindset from Mitchell will have a lot of sympathy in the boardroom at Parkhead. All that "We stand alone" stuff was garbage to placate the fans who can drone on like broken records about Rangers/Sevco but the reality is that Peter Lawell has been downsizing and fire fighting financially for the last 3 years plugging an annual £10m hole in his accounts by selling his best players and now he's left with Efe Ambrose.

Make no mistake about it Celtic's financial health for next year (depends on is possibly too strong a word) will be a lot brighter with 4 games against Rangers on the card. If Rangers go up, Lawell is looking at two home fixtures where he can charge £50+ per ticket, increase ST prices, charge £1000 a plate hospitality, attract a ****load more in sponsorship and sell out his stadium. He will also get income from TV, and media rights for a fixture that will be marketed to the maximum as brand Old Firm whether we like it or not.
He won't get any of that playing Partick Thistle.


Old Firm match day income is peanuts compared to the Champions League money that is a virtual cert. for Celtic as long as Rangers continue to implode.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/uninformed-but-accountable/


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