Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[PatHead]

The SPL should have reported Rangers to the SFA.
The SFA should have stepped in by now and concluded the EBT/Dual contract nonsense. They should have delt with the transfer embargo/court nonsense by now too.
That way, all the SPL/SFL would have to deal with would an application to join the league.

Instead, they get an application with added pressure from SFA/SPL and little time to sort out fixtures, internal league promotions for potential gap in Div1 etc.
The SFL should also have the team ready to fill the SPL vacancy (if there is to be one). Time is marching on and no progress appears to be made.

Complete nonsense. And what happened to Hector and his investigation?

Disagree my post is complete nonsense. It is the facts as they now stand.

After weeks of criticising SPL for prevaricating I am now having a go at the SFL for even considering a special case. Not saying the SPL couldn't have dealt with the issues more promptly, the SFA shouldn't have provided leadership but what I am saying is WTF are the SFL even having a vote about administering special treatment to Rangers? The Board of the SFL should have opened up applications for a potential vacancy weeks ago and dealt with in the normal manner when the vacancy actually became available. ie Put the new club in the 3rd Division. This would have put an end to the saga.

By the way don't know the latest on the tax case but wouldn't surprise me if it dies a death whilst they go after Murray et al.

[joe breezy]

Nobody outside of the RFC/Sevco circle even knows who owns Ibrox. :greengrin

Even Bomber Broon

Show us the title deeds!!!

[Captain Trips]

Even Bomber Broon

Show us the title deeds!!!

Got them Bomber, £8m to you then sir.

Deeds (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85569955/Aussi-ParkLane-card-JohnSand-1936.jpg)

[jonty]

Disagree my post is complete nonsense. It is the facts as they now stand.

After weeks of criticising SPL for prevaricating I am now having a go at the SFL for even considering a special case. Not saying the SPL couldn't have dealt with the issues more promptly, the SFA shouldn't have provided leadership but what I am saying is WTF are the SFL even having a vote about administering special treatment to Rangers? The Board of the SFL should have opened up applications for a potential vacancy weeks ago and dealt with in the normal manner when the vacancy actually became available. ie Put the new club in the 3rd Division. This would have put an end to the saga.

By the way don't know the latest on the tax case but wouldn't surprise me if it dies a death whilst they go after Murray et al.

I wasnt disagreeing with you, I just put down what I think would have been the simplest route from the start.

The outcome is (and I think we all agree) that it has taken far too long to deal with what was a simple issue - a team entering administration.
From most posts on here (and other sites) the indications are that the rules state entry to Div3 on application for a new club

The other issues have been investigated and should have followed on from this, but the powers that be wont/havent made the outcome (and punishments) public.
On top of that we're still waiting on the a new punishment instead of the "transfer embargo/fine" that was appealed against. As it stood at the time, the ony option open was for disqualification/suspension from the league (if memory serves correctly) as the other options were seen as less of a punishment that the embargo/fine.

Doncaster et al keep digging themselves into a hole and it needs to be drawn to a conclusion sooner rather than later.

[PatHead]

I wasnt disagreeing with you, I just put down what I think would have been the simplest route from the start.

The outcome is (and I think we all agree) that it has taken far too long to deal with what was a simple issue - a team entering administration.
From most posts on here (and other sites) the indications are that the rules state entry to Div3 on application for a new club

The other issues have been investigated and should have followed on from this, but the powers that be wont/havent made the outcome (and punishments) public.
On top of that we're still waiting on the a new punishment instead of the "transfer embargo/fine" that was appealed against. As it stood at the time, the ony option open was for disqualification/suspension from the league (if memory serves correctly) as the other options were seen as less of a punishment that the embargo/fine.

Doncaster et al keep digging themselves into a hole and it needs to be drawn to a conclusion sooner rather than later.

I also want to know what has happened about the sectarian singing, Ally's outburst about the SFA committee (bear in mind they weren't slow to penalise our Pat) and most importantly Sandy Jardine's threats.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

All would've been done and dusted within a couple of weeks without any drama or petulant arguing, voting etc. had the rule book been enforced and stuck to, as it is there to do so and has been in the past with other clubs. Instead corruption prevailed and those who enforce the rules tried to bend them to suit their beloved Rangers. Ipso Facto, long drawn-out bitter mess exposing the SFA for what they really are - a bunch of bent Glasgow-centric Old Firm-supporting shysters so brass-necked they can't even hide their bias. Unbelieveable!

Gene

[jonty]

I also want to know what has happened about the sectarian singing, Ally's outburst about the SFA committee (bear in mind they weren't slow to penalise our Pat) and most importantly Sandy Jardine's threats.

As Banksy puts it....


8416

[Baldy Foghorn]

I picked up a Metro on the bus earlier, on the letters page I came across this little gem.....

Muppet from Glasgow "Only in Scotland are we hell bent on punishing a team, who tried to bring quality players into the game"......

Brilliant, someone should tell said muppet, that they have been cheating for years, paying players using EBT's, and running up astronomical debts in the process, then leaving their creditors with hee haw......Or is the muppet correct?:rolleyes:

[Waxy]

If the SFL had followed their own rules
By now

Dundee or Dunfermline would be promoted to the SPL
Airdrie up to the first div
And Stranraer up to the second.

Leaving the gap in div three for any team wishing to apply.

Why aren't they following their own rules?

It's just crazy

[Bighoose]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html#

Apologies if already posted - Copy of Rangers proposal to SPL the other day at top of page - brace yourselves for page 5

An SPL chairman who was present at the meeting said last night: “The brochure was very unimpressive and even more so because the wee diddy clubs got copies that were stapled together, but Celtic’s was spiral bound.

“It was also more than unfortunate that they were open at the page which referred to the voluntary transfer embargo when somebody got an alert on their Blackberry to say that Ian Black had announced he would sign for Rangers if they were accepted into the SPL.”

Chucko must have been there just for p$$$ take? Or is this the level of his professionalism?

[green glory]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html#

Apologies if already posted - Copy of Rangers proposal to SPL the other day at top of page - brace yourselves for page 5

An SPL chairman who was present at the meeting said last night: “The brochure was very unimpressive and even more so because the wee diddy clubs got copies that were stapled together, but Celtic’s was spiral bound.

“It was also more than unfortunate that they were open at the page which referred to the voluntary transfer embargo when somebody got an alert on their Blackberry to say that Ian Black had announced he would sign for Rangers if they were accepted into the SPL.”

Chucko must have been there just for p$$$ take? Or is this the level of his professionalism?

Anyone else of the opinion Charlie is deliberately sabotaging Newhun's chances of getting into any league? Even some on Hunmedia are discussing the possibility.

His handling of almost everything so far has been suspiciously cack-handed.

[ballengeich]

If the SFL had followed their own rules
By now

Dundee or Dunfermline would be promoted to the SPL
Airdrie up to the first div
And Stranraer up to the second.

Leaving the gap in div three for any team wishing to apply.

Why aren't they following their own rules?

It's just crazy

The SFL has followed its rules impeccably so far. The SFL1 champions gain promotion to the SPL, but the SFL cannot promote anyone else. The SPL vote last week rejected the transfer of Rangers' share to Newco, but I haven't read anything to suggest that the old Rangers have subsequently been deprived of their share. When is that going to happen?

At the moment there is no vacancy in the SPL, no SFL team has been invited to join the SPL, and there is consequently no SFL vacancy. If the SPL is going to replace Rangers by an SFL1 team what's the reason for the delay?

[Hibercelona]

Interesting reports of Rangers season ticket sales of only 250 so far. They can't get the facilities for direct debit or even card payments, so it's cash only.

I guess they were right when they said "we don't do walking away".

You can't walk away if you don't turn up in the first place.

[Twa Cairpets]

And here's why I thought Charles Green had a hand in that document...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

Also an outline of the SFL voting process.

That has to have been written by the same person as "The Document". There surely cant be two people who use the same appalling style, syntax and lack of quality producing powerpoints for consumption by the SFA/SPL/SFL?

That is a really, really bad document. The monumentally crass "WE ARE RANGERS" on the back page is a startlingly bad inclusion given the audience.

Green is either: (a) a completely incompetent moron, or (b) an evil genius who is planning to fail and get his mitts on property.

[jonty]

Page five should have read:

8417

[Monts]

And here's why I thought Charles Green had a hand in that document...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

Also an outline of the SFL voting process.

That document makes no sense. First they say they are a new company with no ties to the old rangers. Then they have a picture on the back from a game of the old rangers saying 'we are rangers'.

Also they say the squad size as of 4th july is 8. They then go on to say they will voluntarily not sign any players until july 2013.

:confused:

[JeMeSouviens]

Add East Fife to the "No" column. :greengrin

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Football/article/23733/it-s-the-proper-thing-to-do-east-fife-chief-says-third-division-is-only-option-for-newco-rangers.html

You know, I'm starting to think I might've been wrong about Fifers ... :wink:

[marinello59]

Can we no have a revolutionary reform with them in division 3? What's wrong with having them in division 3 and then having the reform with them still starting at the bottom of the new set up!

Sorry, daft idea, there'd be nae discussion and nae will for it from the authorities if it wisnae tae try and invent a fudge for them. You ken it and I ken it. The only reform they wanted was a 10 team league tae stack things even further in favour of the OF. New teams start at the bottom, that's the rules and if we cannae have change without bending or breaking those rules why bother? What happens if they find another way tae cheat and get caught again 10 years down the line, will we change the rules and reorganise again because they must win and be at the top at all costs? No for me!

Change because it's needed, yes, change tae accommodate the return of (in all but name) cheats, NO!

Yes, change because it is needed and not to accomodate cheats. You seem to be adopting the same tunnell visioned approach to this whole thing that our games administrators have done. Used properly this situation could have provided a major impetus to much needed change. Unfortunately our games leaders totally blew it by betting everything on Rangers continuing to exist as before. (Doncaster was in complete denial about the prospect of them actually going in to liquidation.) That was a major betrayal of the Scottish game. It would be just as dumb to imagine that banishing Rangers to SFL3 is going to improve anything. It won't, in three years time they will be back stronger than ever. Their best chance of becoming the same dominant force will be served by starting in SFL3 rather than SFL1. (Don't get me wrong, I want them in SFL3 but it may not be the best solution for the Scottish game. ) Anybody who thinks Rangers are dead is deluded. They will be playing in the same park, in the same strips and enjoying exactly the same financial advantage. Patting ourselves on the backs and basking in the glow of self righteousness that sporting integrity has been served will be a pyrrhic vitory. Every other club will have been punished financially for their misdoings and by the time they are back in the SPL some may be gone. Where is the justice in that? It's all very well saying clubs that don't cut their cloth now deserve to die but contracts and planning were all based on the current level of cash coming in to the game. Scottish football is engaged in that bloodiest of all wars, civil wars. Without pragmatism and compromise we will all be losers. I don't believe the figures we have seen chucked at the SFL clubs for a second but nobody can be in any doubt that finances will be quite a bit tighter without Rangers in the top league. I agree with you about the need strong leaders with a clear vision in place. That vision should cover the whole picture, not just the demands of the Old Firm or the top teams nor the ever changing demands of the mob.

[Onion]

The SPL should have reported Rangers to the SFA.
The SFA should have stepped in by now and concluded the EBT/Dual contract nonsense. They should have delt with the transfer embargo/court nonsense by now too.
That way, all the SPL/SFL would have to deal with would an application to join the league.

Instead, they get an application with added pressure from SFA/SPL and little time to sort out fixtures, internal league promotions for potential gap in Div1 etc.
The SFL should also have the team ready to fill the SPL vacancy (if there is to be one). Time is marching on and no progress appears to be made.

Complete nonsense. And what happened to Hector and his investigation?

:agree: Once the huns are voted into Div 1, there will be no going back. The opportunity to properly punish them for the years of cheating and financial crime will be all but gone. NOW is the time to deal with them properly, punt them into Div 3 and them expel them once the full details of their double contracts, tax evasion and other crimes become clear. Jees, there's even an independent investigation into D&P to deal with. IMHO, once the full extent of RFC's crimes are out, everyone will be wondering what all this fuss was about - they should be banned from playing football in any league.

If the Huns are given a "get out of jail" card into the Div 1, in less than 9 months, they will be back in the SPL with the strongest balance sheet of of ANY SPL club, virtually free of debt with huge cash flow. They will stick two fingers up to ever other club as they bypass them towards the top of the league and then set out to piss on everyone from a great height. The Huns have shown themselves to be a bitter mob and you can be guaranteed they will look for every opportunity to make the rest pay (as they have stated time and again).

[Baldy Foghorn]

That has to have been written by the same person as "The Document". There surely cant be two people who use the same appalling style, syntax and lack of quality producing powerpoints for consumption by the SFA/SPL/SFL?

That is a really, really bad document. The monumentally crass "WE ARE RANGERS" on the back page is a startlingly bad inclusion given the audience.

Green is either: (a) a completely incompetent moron, or (b) an evil genius who is planning to fail and get his mitts on property.

Agree, especially with the sentence in bold......I think page 5 of the document was to say to the "diddy teams", we are gods, vote us in or else.....I hope the SFL tell the rangers to Bolt.............

[Hibercelona]

Add East Fife to the "No" column. :greengrin

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Football/article/23733/it-s-the-proper-thing-to-do-east-fife-chief-says-third-division-is-only-option-for-newco-rangers.html

You know, I'm starting to think I might've been wrong about Fifers ... :wink:

We're no such a bad bunch once you get to know us. :wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Add East Fife to the "No" column. :greengrin

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Football/article/23733/it-s-the-proper-thing-to-do-east-fife-chief-says-third-division-is-only-option-for-newco-rangers.html

You know, I'm starting to think I might've been wrong about Fifers ... :wink:

MON THE FIFERS! :thumbsup:

[21.05.2016]

''If it had been Motherwell or Hibs or Hearts it wouldn't have come to this. The rules put Gretna into the Third Division, the rules put Livingston into the Third Division and the rules must put Rangers into the Third Division.''

:top marks

Good on them for making their position clear and not bowing to pressure.

[LeighLoyal]

''If it had been Motherwell or Hibs or Hearts it wouldn't have come to this. The rules put Gretna into the Third Division, the rules put Livingston into the Third Division and the rules must put Rangers into the Third Division.''

:top marks

Good on them for making their position clear and not bowing to pressure.




Looking good Sevco won't get in SFL 1. :thumbsup:


I would bar them from SFL 3 also. Make them play non league until they can prove they are never going to cheat and con us all again.

[BEEJ]

That document makes no sense.

Also they say the squad size as of 4th july is 8. They then go on to say they will voluntarily not sign any players until july 2013.
:confused:
You're forgetting that the ref and two linesmen make up their starting eleven.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Looking good Sevco won't get in SFL 1. :thumbsup:


I would bar them from SFL 3 also. Make them play non league until they can prove they are never going to cheat and con us all again.

I won't get too excited yet, as I am sure there will be a sting in the tail, courtesy of Doncaster and Regan....My hope burns strongly that we never see Newco at any level.....Will look forward to such "social unrest", if it happens.....

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Looking good Sevco won't get in SFL 1. :thumbsup:


I would bar them from SFL 3 also. Make them play non league until they can prove they are never going to cheat and con us all again.

Or at least be able to provide 1 years worth of accounts...as per the rules :wink:

[Captain Trips]

''If it had been Motherwell or Hibs or Hearts it wouldn't have come to this. The rules put Gretna into the Third Division, the rules put Livingston into the Third Division and the rules must put Rangers into the Third Division.''

:top marks

Good on them for making their position clear and not bowing to pressure.

Indeed

Applying the rules would have allowed both Doncasrer and Regan to get on with their jobs of selling the unique products left in SPL and SFL they would have had weeks if not months to look at advertising look at all sorts of things to assure the other member clubs are not forgotten.

The 2 clowns have spent most if not all of their time on trying to keep Rangers as high as they could and neglecting any positives that can come out this, Scotland had a chance to show right away we deal with clubs no matter who they are.

Clubs might be losing money because the 2 idiots have not been doing their jobs correctly in marketing the product amongst other things.

[Andy74]

That document makes no sense. First they say they are a new company with no ties to the old rangers. Then they have a picture on the back from a game of the old rangers saying 'we are rangers'.

Also they say the squad size as of 4th july is 8. They then go on to say they will voluntarily not sign any players until july 2013.

:confused:

They would probably have meant senior players over 18.

[Hibercelona]

You're forgetting that the ref and two linesmen make up their starting eleven.

:agree:

They'll also have Doncaster, Regan, Young & Traynor on the bench.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

They would probably have meant senior players over 18.

The press story about Ian Black signing must have irked a few folk

[Hibercelona]

Indeed

Applying the rules would have allowed both Doncasrer and Regan to get on with their jobs of selling the unique products left in SPL and SFL they would have had weeks if not months to look at advertising look at all sorts of things to assure the other member clubs are not forgotten.

The 2 clowns have spent most if not all of their time on trying to keep Rangers as high as they could and neglecting any positives that can come out this, Scotland had a chance to show right away we deal with clubs no matter who they are.

Clubs might be losing money because the 2 idiots have not been doing their jobs correctly in marketing the product amongst other things.

:top marks

With enough research into the matter, their would be other ways found to bring more cash into the SPL.

Thats what they should have been spending their time doing, instead of what they have been attempting to do.

If the game suffers financially, its because of these clowns.

[ScottB]

The press story about Ian Black signing must have irked a few folk

It was a spectacular own goal, proving that the club hasn't learned a damn thing through this process. The stories about their 'presentation' sum that up.

[Matty_Jack04]

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

Interesting thoughts on the tv revenue argument

[Baldy Foghorn]

It was a spectacular own goal, proving that the club hasn't learned a damn thing through this process. The stories about their 'presentation' sum that up.

Agreed, they are still as arrogant and dismissive of others as they were prior to this whole saga.......

[steakbake]

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

Interesting thoughts on the tv revenue argument

We're being sold short by the very people who should be selling the value of the product. With Sevco out of the picture for at least a year, I'm hopeful there will be a more exciting league.

Clearly, SFA are more concerned about history than the future.

The Herald article today was excellent: this is not the end of Scottish football. With the right men in charge, making the right decisions, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to rejig the game and for clubs to be doing an awful lot better than they've been doing in the past.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes, change because it is needed and not to accomodate cheats. You seem to be adopting the same tunnell visioned approach to this whole thing that our games administrators have done. Used properly this situation could have provided a major impetus to much needed change. Unfortunately our games leaders totally blew it by betting everything on Rangers continuing to exist as before. (Doncaster was in complete denial about the prospect of them actually going in to liquidation.) That was a major betrayal of the Scottish game. It would be just as dumb to imagine that banishing Rangers to SFL3 is going to improve anything. It won't, in three years time they will be back stronger than ever. Their best chance of becoming the same dominant force will be served by starting in SFL3 rather than SFL1. (Don't get me wrong, I want them in SFL3 but it may not be the best solution for the Scottish game. ) Anybody who thinks Rangers are dead is deluded. They will be playing in the same park, in the same strips and enjoying exactly the same financial advantage. Patting ourselves on the backs and basking in the glow of self righteousness that sporting integrity has been served will be a pyrrhic vitory. Every other club will have been punished financially for their misdoings and by the time they are back in the SPL some may be gone. Where is the justice in that? It's all very well saying clubs that don't cut their cloth now deserve to die but contracts and planning were all based on the current level of cash coming in to the game. Scottish football is engaged in that bloodiest of all wars, civil wars. Without pragmatism and compromise we will all be losers. I don't believe the figures we have seen chucked at the SFL clubs for a second but nobody can be in any doubt that finances will be quite a bit tighter without Rangers in the top league. I agree with you about the need strong leaders with a clear vision in place. That vision should cover the whole picture, not just the demands of the Old Firm or the top teams nor the ever changing demands of the mob.

I'm missing why you think that the Huns being in D3 inevitably stops any overall improvements being made. Why are the two mutually exclusive? :confused:

[Jack]

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

Interesting thoughts on the tv revenue argument

Suggests to me the the SPL / Doncaster are even more incompetent than ever imagined.

[blackpoolhibs]

Suggests to me the the SPL / Doncaster are even more incompetent than ever imagined.

It certainly looks that way. :agree:

[Saorsa]

I'm missing why you think that the Huns being in D3 inevitably stops any overall improvements being made. Why are the two mutually exclusive? :confused:Indeed, I must be missing that too as we seem tae be going in circles. Change can be made without compromising the rules that exist for new clubs. Why must this new club be fudged in further up than they should be before we can have change for the good of all?

[Saorsa]

Suggests to me the the SPL / Doncaster are even more incompetent than ever imagined.If you could ever have thought that possible. :bitchy:

[Matty_Jack04]

It was a spectacular own goal, proving that the club hasn't learned a damn thing through this process. The stories about their 'presentation' sum that up.

There was something about zombiehun being after Beattie today somewhere maybe bbc gossip Collum cannae mind anyway it's beginning to reek of the 'media monkeys' trying to tempt the mad one out of his cage for some of his thoughts on the matter, to then probably spin the 'if rangers are away this man will run Scottish football' headlines in the papers

[greenginger]

Indeed, I must be missing that too as we seem tae be going in circles. Change can be made without compromising the rules that exist for new clubs. Why must this new club be fudged in further up than they should be before we can have change for the good of all?


http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/304752-stewart-regan-scottish-fa-must-implement-rules-without-fear-or-favour/

But Regan has already stated the rules will be implemented without " fear or favour ". Think he needs reminding of his own words.

[Hibercelona]

There was something about zombiehun being after Beattie today somewhere maybe bbc gossip Collum cannae mind anyway it's beginning to reek of the 'media monkeys' trying to tempt the mad one out of his cage for some of his thoughts on the matter, to then probably spin the 'if rangers are away this man will run Scottish football' headlines in the papers

Their may be some truth to that.

He seemed very adamant about keeping Rangers in the SPL.

[marinello59]

I'm missing why you think that the Huns being in D3 inevitably stops any overall improvements being made. Why are the two mutually exclusive? :confused:

I am saying that merely throwing Rangers in to SFL3 will change nothing and will actually be better for them in the long term. They will return to the SPL sanction free and cash rich. The duopoly will continue as before. Meanwhile other clubs will have paid a heavy financial penalty. Is that fair?
A heavily sanctioned Rangers in SFL1 with a fairer distribution of income would bring us much closer to an even playing field. Of course change is possible with Rangers in SFL3 but the whole game will be enduring a financial headache of its own making. If you think the standard of player in the SPL is poor now be prepared for standards to slip even further.

[lapsedhibee]

I am saying that merely thrwoing Rangers in to SFL3 will change nothing and will actually b better for them in the long term. They will return to the SPL sanction free and cash rich. The duopoly will continue as before. Meanwhile other clubs will have paid a heavy financial penalty. Is that fair?
A heavily sanctioned Rangers in SFL1 with a fairer distribution of income would bring us much closer to an even playing field. Of course change is possible with Rangers in SFL3 but the whole game will be enduring a financial headache of its own making. If you think the standard of player in the SPL is poor now be prepared for standards to slip even further.

Well let's have a heavily sanctioned Hun in SFL3 then! Why not? :dunno:

[marinello59]

Indeed, I must be missing that too as we seem tae be going in circles. Change can be made without compromising the rules that exist for new clubs. Why must this new club be fudged in further up than they should be before we can have change for the good of all?

Fudged up? That's your opinion. The world operates on a mixture pragmatism and compromise for the greater good. I don't know what the best way forward is but I am pretty sure that simpy saying no to everything except one outcome ain't going to help anything.

[Matty_Jack04]

Their may be some truth to that.

He seemed very adamant about keeping Rangers in the SPL.

Yeh read that, very critical of motherwells fans votes if I mind rightly

[Hibercelona]

I am saying that merely thrwoing Rangers in to SFL3 will change nothing and will actually b better for them in the long term. They will return to the SPL sanction free and cash rich. The duopoly will continue as before. Meanwhile other clubs will have paid a heavy financial penalty. Is that fair?
A heavily sanctioned Rangers in SFL1 with a fairer distribution of income would bring us much closer to an even playing field. Of course change is possible with Rangers in SFL3 but the whole game will be enduring a financial headache of its own making. If you think the standard of player in the SPL is poor now be prepared for standards to slip even further.

I wouldn't put "standard of player" solely down to finances. There are other factors involved such as poor decision making, put down to poor management.

We've been out spending most clubs in the SPL for years, yet falling behind most of them.

With better management and encouraging more youth players to keep on the straight and narrow, the SPL can and will improve, even without the filth.

The best thing about Rangers starting out in DIV3, is that it forces people to look at more options and to come up with fresh ideas to promote our game. Thats what the game needs, new ideas.

[marinello59]

Well let's have a heavily sanctioned Hun in SFL3 then! Why not? :dunno:

As so many have pointed out, they are a new club. Entering SFL3 is not a punishment, it's a consequence of their actions.
If it's SFL1 then heavy sanctions can be made a condition of entry.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fudged up? That's your opinion. The world operates on a mixture pragmatism and compromise for the greater good. I don't know what the best way forward is but I am pretty sure that simpy saying no to everything except one outcome ain't going to help anything.

I'm with you on the pragmatism thing. The debate has been, and still is, muddied by the emotional desire to F the Huns.... and that's understandable, given the real and perceived injustices over the years. However, there is an argument that says "let's stand back and look at things".

Allowing them to start again in D3 gives Scottish football to calm down, look at things rationally over a decent length of time, and sort things out "for the greater good". I agree with you that Rangers will come back, probably stronger.... but that's unavoidable, given their support. The trick is to change things so that they don't have an advantage which is out of kilter with that economic strength.

Allowing them into D1 shortens that time span, and reduces the opportunities.

[Sir David Gray]

As so many have pointed out, they are a new club. Entering SFL3 is not a punishment, it's a consequence of their actions.
If it's SFL1 then heavy sanctions can be made a condition of entry.

Exactly.

I keep hearing about this new club being put in to the third division as a "punishment".

As you point out, that is not a punishment, it's the correct and only possible outcome for a new club starting life in the football league.

Rangers aren't being punished anymore as they do not exist.

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending that. This new club will just happen to be playing at Ibrox, play in blue and white and have Ally McCoist as their new manager.

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly.

I keep hearing about this new club being put in to the third division as a "punishment".

As you point out, that is not a punishment, it's the correct and only possible outcome for a new club starting life in the football league.

Rangers aren't being punished anymore as they do not exist.

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending that. This new club will just happen to be playing at Ibrox, play in blue and white and have Ally McCoist as their new manager.

TBC :greengrin

[marinello59]

I'm with you on the pragmatism thing. The debate has been, and still is, muddied by the emotional desire to F the Huns.... and that's understandable, given the real and perceived injustices over the years. However, there is an argument that says "let's stand back and look at things".

Allowing them to start again in D3 gives Scottish football to calm down, look at things rationally over a decent length of time, and sort things out "for the greater good". I agree with you that Rangers will come back, probably stronger.... but that's unavoidable, given their support. The trick is to change things so that they don't have an advantage which is out of kilter with that economic strength.

Allowing them into D1 shortens that time span, and reduces the opportunities.

Not if it concentrates minds to act quickly. How long has the Mcleish report been out? How many think tanks have we had, none acted on. We should strike while the iron is hot so to speak. IMHO of course.
You may well be right though, the only thing I am sure of is that what happens next is anybody's guess.

[Saorsa]

Fudged up? That's your opinion. The world operates on a mixture pragmatism and compromise for the greater good. I don't know what the best way forward is but I am pretty sure that simpy saying no to everything except one outcome ain't going to help anything.That's right and I'm sticking with it. After having follwed the rules that exist and once that club is out the road for 3 years the other bully will be isolated. That gives all the other clubs at the top a chance to move things on tae a more even keel starting by getting rid of ridiculous voting systems that allow certain clubs tae dominate, veto and suck up all the money. They may still have more money because of the size of their support but the rest could be better divvied up and rules made tae suit all. It will also hopefully allow the ridding of the corridors of power of the dinosaurs and OF sycophants that currently inhabit them.

[Hibercelona]

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending that. This new club will just happen to be playing at Ibrox, play in blue and white and have Ally McCoist as their new manager.

:agree:

If a random club in the highland leagues were to buy Ibrox, start playing in blue and sign Ally McCoist as manager, do people think that it would be alright for them just to jump straight up into the 2nd highest tier of Scottish Football?

Because thats basically whats happening with Sevco. (A new highland league club)

[CropleyWasGod]

Not if it concentrates minds to act quickly. How long has the Mcleish report been out? How many think tanks have we had, none acted on. We should strike while the iron is hot so to speak. IMHO of course.
You may well be right though, the only thing I am sure of is that what happens next is anybody's guess.

I just think that the danger of acting now is a knee-jerk reaction which, in hindsight, is the wrong one. There is too much emotion around.

Now... I'll let you back to your fight wi Dan :greengrin

[Saorsa]

I just think that the danger of acting now is a knee-jerk reaction which, in hindsight, is the wrong one. There is too much emotion around.

Now... I'll let you back to your fight wi Dan :greengrinnah, yer awrite, I've completed my last circuit of that particular circle. :wink: and I'm of tae the pub :cheers:

[Seveno]

TBC :greengrin

So do you think that they might not be able to afford the rent ?

[CropleyWasGod]

So do you think that they might not be able to afford the rent ?

:greengrin good question.

It's noticeable that, amid all the hoo-haa about the votes and stuff, Bomber Brown has yet to have his question answered. It would have been very simple, I would have thought, for CG to have proven his/Seb Coe's ownership of Greyskull.

Cynique, moi? :rolleyes:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Exactly.

I keep hearing about this new club being put in to the third division as a "punishment".

As you point out, that is not a punishment, it's the correct and only possible outcome for a new club starting life in the football league.

Rangers aren't being punished anymore as they do not exist.

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending that. This new club will just happen to be playing at Ibrox, play in blue and white and have Ally McCoist as their new manager.

I don't remember any new clubs who haven't even played a competitive match being allowed into div 3 though so actually they are getting a benefit by even getting into div3, so they should still have to agree to sanctions if they want in.

If they want any benefit because they are rangers then they can take the punishments as well, otherwise they should truly start at the bottom and that aint div 3

[Kaiser1962]

:greengrin good question.

It's noticeable that, amid all the hoo-haa about the votes and stuff, Bomber Brown has yet to have his question answered. It would have been very simple, I would have thought, for CG to have proven his/Seb Coe's ownership of Greyskull.

Cynique, moi? :rolleyes:

And if he can prove he does own the properties do you think the Court of Session will be wanting a wee word with D + P regarding the omission of those same assetts from the EOS?

[CropleyWasGod]

And if he can prove he does own the properties do you think the Court of Session will be wanting a wee word with D + P regarding the omission of those same assetts from the EOS?

I think the liquidators might want a wee word, if for no other reason than to satisfy themselves that the properties were transferred at market value.

[Sir David Gray]

I don't remember any new clubs who haven't even played a competitive match being allowed into div 3 though so actually they are getting a benefit by even getting into div3, so they should still have to agree to sanctions if they want in.

If they want any benefit because they are rangers then they can take the punishments as well, otherwise they should truly start at the bottom and that aint div 3

I don't think there is any precedence for this type of thing. I would personally not have a problem if they were granted a place in the SFL, so long as it was the 3rd division.

I don't actually understand why there needs to be any discussions about this.

There is a vacancy in the 3rd division of the SFL, which has been caused by Rangers going out of business and everyone being bumped up a place as a result. All of the clubs who wish to fill this vacancy should apply to the SFL by a certain date.

Once all of the applications have been received, the 29 member clubs will vote on which application is best and which club they wish to accept into the SFL for next season.

It really shouldn't be any more complicated than that.

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure if posted elsewhere but an excellent interview by Steven Pressley.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18741679

[Seveno]

:greengrin good question.

It's noticeable that, amid all the hoo-haa about the votes and stuff, Bomber Brown has yet to have his question answered. It would have been very simple, I would have thought, for CG to have proven his/Seb Coe's ownership of Greyskull.

Cynique, moi? :rolleyes:

If you put your ear to the ground, you might just hear the sound of his backers running for the hills.

I'm sure though that Charlie boy will get his money back by selling Murray park and the lease of the car park, then recovering the rest from the rent of Greyskull to Newco2 over three years.

He may be pretty thick but he's not daft.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you put your ear to the ground, you might just hear the sound of his backers running for the hills.

I'm sure though that Charlie boy will get his money back by selling Murray park and the lease of the car park, then recovering the rest from the rent of Greyskull to Newco2 over three years.

He may be pretty thick but he's not daft.

Course he's not. IIRC, he still has the get-out clause that allows him to withdraw if RFC aren't playing in all competitions next season. The SFL vote might be the trigger for him.

[Hibercelona]

If you put your ear to the ground, you might just hear the sound of his backers running for the hills.

I'm sure though that Charlie boy will get his money back by selling Murray park and the lease of the car park, then recovering the rest from the rent of Greyskull to Newco2 over three years.

He may be pretty thick but he's not daft.

Nobody with money is ever truly thick. :agree:

Some just like to play dumb.

[marinello59]

That's right and I'm sticking with it. .
I would be disappointed if you didn't.:greengrin

[Crazyhorse]

We're being sold short by the very people who should be selling the value of the product. With Sevco out of the picture for at least a year, I'm hopeful there will be a more exciting league.

Clearly, SFA are more concerned about history than the future.

The Herald article today was excellent: this is not the end of Scottish football. With the right men in charge, making the right decisions, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to rejig the game and for clubs to be doing an awful lot better than they've been doing in the past.

I think the Belgian example is very instructive. They have not been afraid to make radical changes to what is now their 16 team League and have got their reward with bike hikes in the amounts broadcasters are willing to play. The top 4 clubs all have average attendances in the 20,000's last season and there is real competition for the league. 20 years ago a great old club FC Bruges were getting 12K average crowds last season they got double that.

[Bishop Hibee]

I'm with you on the pragmatism thing. The debate has been, and still is, muddied by the emotional desire to F the Huns.... and that's understandable, given the real and perceived injustices over the years. However, there is an argument that says "let's stand back and look at things".

Allowing them to start again in D3 gives Scottish football to calm down, look at things rationally over a decent length of time, and sort things out "for the greater good". I agree with you that Rangers will come back, probably stronger.... but that's unavoidable, given their support. The trick is to change things so that they don't have an advantage which is out of kilter with that economic strength.

Allowing them into D1 shortens that time span, and reduces the opportunities.

Very sensible CWG. It would have all been done and dusted if everyone involved in the whole fiasco had agreed to Newco starting in Div 3. As I've posted previously, it is obvious Rangers will come back into the league system in the same way a 'new Hibs' would have eventually if Farmer hadn't saved us. We may have been East of Scotland League but I think Div 3 is realistic and gives time for the merging of governing bodies, fairer distribution of TV money now and in the future, fairer voting system etc.

It's my belief, also posted elsewhere, that a European NFL style league is a certainty further down the line and the OF both have a decent chance of making it though the huns have seriously undermined their chances. Scottish football needs to make sure it can operate in the future without the OF.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yes, change because it is needed and not to accomodate cheats. You seem to be adopting the same tunnell visioned approach to this whole thing that our games administrators have done. Used properly this situation could have provided a major impetus to much needed change. Unfortunately our games leaders totally blew it by betting everything on Rangers continuing to exist as before. (Doncaster was in complete denial about the prospect of them actually going in to liquidation.) That was a major betrayal of the Scottish game. It would be just as dumb to imagine that banishing Rangers to SFL3 is going to improve anything. It won't, in three years time they will be back stronger than ever. Their best chance of becoming the same dominant force will be served by starting in SFL3 rather than SFL1. (Don't get me wrong, I want them in SFL3 but it may not be the best solution for the Scottish game. ) Anybody who thinks Rangers are dead is deluded. They will be playing in the same park, in the same strips and enjoying exactly the same financial advantage. Patting ourselves on the backs and basking in the glow of self righteousness that sporting integrity has been served will be a pyrrhic vitory. Every other club will have been punished financially for their misdoings and by the time they are back in the SPL some may be gone. Where is the justice in that? It's all very well saying clubs that don't cut their cloth now deserve to die but contracts and planning were all based on the current level of cash coming in to the game. Scottish football is engaged in that bloodiest of all wars, civil wars. Without pragmatism and compromise we will all be losers. I don't believe the figures we have seen chucked at the SFL clubs for a second but nobody can be in any doubt that finances will be quite a bit tighter without Rangers in the top league. I agree with you about the need strong leaders with a clear vision in place. That vision should cover the whole picture, not just the demands of the Old Firm or the top teams nor the ever changing demands of the mob.

:top marks

[bighairyfaeleith]

I don't think there is any precedence for this type of thing. I would personally not have a problem if they were granted a place in the SFL, so long as it was the 3rd division.

I don't actually understand why there needs to be any discussions about this.

There is a vacancy in the 3rd division of the SFL, which has been caused by Rangers going out of business and everyone being bumped up a place as a result. All of the clubs who wish to fill this vacancy should apply to the SFL by a certain date.

Once all of the applications have been received, the 29 member clubs will vote on which application is best and which club they wish to accept into the SFL for next season.

It really shouldn't be any more complicated than that.

I agree they should go into the 3rd, but I don't agree that it's there right. They are being given special consideration getting into the 3rd and the notion that they should get away with everything else because they have chosen the 3rd rather than the 1st really pisses me off.

If they want the 3rd, let them ****ing beg for it

[Sir David Gray]

I agree they should go into the 3rd, but I don't agree that it's there right. They are being given special consideration getting into the 3rd and the notion that they should get away with everything else because they have chosen the 3rd rather than the 1st really pisses me off.

If they want the 3rd, let them ****ing beg for it

They shouldn't have a right to anything.

If any other club wants to apply for membership of the SFL next season then they should be allowed to do so and then a vote should take place.

[green glory]

I agree they should go into the 3rd, but I don't agree that it's there right. They are being given special consideration getting into the 3rd and the notion that they should get away with everything else because they have chosen the 3rd rather than the 1st really pisses me off.

If they want the 3rd, let them ****ing beg for it

Correct. Bearing in mind they have no divine right to be chosen over any other club. My vote goes to Spartans.

[Waxy]

Sevco should think themselves lucky that Scotland hasn't already introduced some kind of pyramid system by now.
Way behind the times as usual.

They'd find themselves applying to the west of Scotland league.

Imo a few more levels below div3 is needed.
These teams at the bottom with no ambitions are causing poor standards which must have a ripple effect going up.

Sort it out SFA.

[Lungo--Drom]

The story has now been filed under 'Kilmarnock' on the BBC Sports website so for anyone who hasn't ended themselves looking at this yet here's an updated link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18732086

And if you can't get to the link or it stops working here's the photo:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7516556700_48834846ed_c.jpg


:not worth :not worth :not worth :not worth :not worth



Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

[lapsedhibee]

Well let's have a heavily sanctioned Hun in SFL3 then! Why not?


As so many have pointed out, they are a new club. Entering SFL3 is not a punishment, it's a consequence of their actions.
If it's SFL1 then heavy sanctions can be made a condition of entry.

Still not seeing this. You seem to be arguing on the basis of two contradictory beliefs:

(1) They are a new club and therefore cannot be 'punished' (=sanctions) if they play in Div 3

(2) If they play in Div 1 it would be appropriate for them to be 'punished' (=sanctions)

This is illogical captain.

They are either a new club or they're not.

If they're a new club it wouldn't be appropriate to punish (=sanctions) them, whatever division they play in.

If they're not a new club and sanctions are appropriate, then they can be punished (=sanctions) whatever divsion they play in.

The Donkey Pack frenziedly fuzzying all this is a singularly lamentable attempt to ensure that NewhunFC is oot the SPL for as short a time as possible. Aw blaw.

[3pm]

Davis signed for Southampton.

[marinello59]

Still not seeing this. You seem to be arguing on the basis of two contradictory beliefs:

(1) They are a new club and therefore cannot be 'punished' (=sanctions) if they play in Div 3

(2) If they play in Div 1 it would be appropriate for them to be 'punished' (=sanctions)This is illogical captain.

They are either a new club or they're not.

If they're a new club it wouldn't be appropriate to punish (=sanctions) them, whatever division they play in.

If they're not a new club and sanctions are appropriate, then they can be punished (=sanctions) whatever divsion they play in.

The Donkey Pack frenziedly fuzzying all this a singularly lamentable attempt to ensure that NewhunFC is oot the SPL for as short a time as possible. Aw blaw.

Glad you picked up on that. That's not my argument. There are plenty of others on here saying that they are a totally new club so should start in SFL3. The same people then argue SFL1 would be insufficient punishment for years of cheating. (By the way, there is nothing in the rules stopping a club applying to any division. )
I am accepting the reality of the situation. Whether they are Oldco, Newco, Sevco or Seb Coe they will still be Rangers. Do you seriously think they will be thought of as anything but Rangers in a couple of years? Allowing entry to SFL1 subject to accepting the punishment applicable to the wrongs done by Murray, Whyte and co is a perfectly valid negotiating tool. I am not saying that is wholly desirable, but it may turn out to be the best option. If they are empatically NOT Rangers and go in to SFL3 then they will effectively be escaping any punishment. Three years of low costs and high income will see them stronger than ever. Still, if thats what you want. :greengrin
Don't mistake me for part of the 'donkey pack.'' The man is a buffoon and should go, his incompetence has caused further damage but those who employ him have more questions to answer. They will be delighted that he is the main fall guy here.

[CropleyWasGod]

Glad you picked up on that. That's not my argument. There are plenty of others on here saying that they are a totally new club so should start in SFL3. The same people then argue SFL1 would be insufficient punishment for years of cheating. (By the way, there is nothing in the rules stopping a club applying to any division. )
I am accepting the reality of the situation. Whether they are Oldco, Newco, Sevco or Seb Coe they will still be Rangers. Do you seriously think they will be thought of as anything but Rangers in a couple of years? Allowing entry to SFL1 subject to accepting the punishment applicable to the wrongs done by Murray, Whyte and co is a perfectly valid negotiating tool. I am not saying that is wholly desirable, but it may turn out to be the best option. If they are empatically NOT Rangers and go in to SFL3 then they will effectively be escaping any punishment. Three years of low costs and high income will see them stronger than ever. Still, if thats what you want. :greengrin
Don't mistake me for part of the 'donkey pack.'' The man is a buffoon and should go, his incompetence has caused further damage but those who employ him have more questions to answer. They will be delighted that he is the main fall guy here.

According to Longmuir, there is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

"Longmuir also revealed details of the voting process that will be applied. The first vote will decide if the SFL can accept Rangers, with a simple majority required.

If that ballot is in favour of a Rangers application, it will be, according to Longmuir, “supplemented by further resolutions that we would have to implement to change our rules."

[Jonnyboy]

Not been reading every post so apologies if already covered but surely now that Super Sally has stated he thinks der hun should start off in L3, the problem is solved?

[CropleyWasGod]

Not been reading every post so apologies if already covered but surely now that Super Sally has stated he thinks der hun should start off in L3, the problem is solved?

It would be if Sally had any say in the matter.

For "say", read "financial involvement up to his nads."

[marinello59]

According to Longmuir, there is. I will find the post linking his quote, but basically he says "we may have to have two votes. The first to allow them in or not. If it is a Yes, we will have to change our rules." :rolleyes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

Maybe I misread another statement which said that whilst there was no precedent in joining anywhere other than at the bottom there was nothing specified in the rules to prevent it. If i am wrong just add it to the bollox I have already spouted on this thread. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

It would be if Sally had any say in the matter.

For "say", read "financial involvement up to his nads."

:greengrin

Just seems that all this bending over by the powers that be could be eased by erm lubricating a way into League 3 :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe I misread another statement which said that whilst there was no precedent in joining anywhere other than at the bottom there was nothing specified in the rules to prevent it. If i am wrong just add it to the bollox I have already spouted on this thread. :greengrin

Oh, that will be this pronouncement from Longmuir on June 17th :greengrin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9337279/Rangers-would-have-to-start-in-Scottish-League-Division-Three-says-SFL-chief-executive-David-Longmuir.html

[jonty]

If they get into div1 on the basis that they're rangers, and bring in money, needed there to secure sky etc etc then fine - they take sanctions.

If they're apply and start at the bottom, like any new club, then fine - no sanctions. and we'll take every oportunity to remind them they're sevco5088 fc, not huns fc.


regardless of the above, the EBT dual contract pish need sorted out and dealt with. history books to be amended.

[Baldy Foghorn]

If they get into div1 on the basis that they're rangers, and bring in money, needed there to secure sky etc etc then fine - they take sanctions.

If they're apply and start at the bottom, like any new club, then fine - no sanctions. and we'll take every oportunity to remind them they're sevco5088 fc, not huns fc.


regardless of the above, the EBT dual contract pish need sorted out and dealt with. history books to be amended.

So that 7-0 humping at Ipox, when Gazza was playing never happened....Praise the lord....:greengrin

[marinello59]

Oh, that will be this pronouncement from Longmuir on June 17th :greengrin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9337279/Rangers-would-have-to-start-in-Scottish-League-Division-Three-says-SFL-chief-executive-David-Longmuir.html

Looks like more bollox from me then. :greengrin

This was taken from the widely applauded Clyde statement on the matter.


There were a few new things learned in the meeting, not least that the rules of the SFL would allow any club accepted into the SFL, by a simple majority, to be placed in any division. The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier. ,

[Sir David Gray]

If they get into div1 on the basis that they're rangers, and bring in money, needed there to secure sky etc etc then fine - they take sanctions.

If they're apply and start at the bottom, like any new club, then fine - no sanctions. and we'll take every oportunity to remind them they're sevco5088 fc, not huns fc.


regardless of the above, the EBT dual contract pish need sorted out and dealt with. history books to be amended.

Sorry, the new company getting into the 1st division would not be fine, it would be wholly unacceptable.

If they're going to be playing league football next season, they MUST be in the 3rd division.

[lapsedhibee]

Glad you picked up on that. That's not my argument. There are plenty of others on here saying that they are a totally new club so should start in SFL3. The same people then argue SFL1 would be insufficient punishment for years of cheating. (By the way, there is nothing in the rules stopping a club applying to any division. )
I am accepting the reality of the situation. Whether they are Oldco, Newco, Sevco or Seb Coe they will still be Rangers. Do you seriously think they will be thought of as anything but Rangers in a couple of years? Allowing entry to SFL1 subject to accepting the punishment applicable to the wrongs done by Murray, Whyte and co is a perfectly valid negotiating tool. I am not saying that is wholly desirable, but it may turn out to be the best option. If they are empatically NOT Rangers and go in to SFL3 then they will effectively be escaping any punishment. Three years of low costs and high income will see them stronger than ever. Still, if thats what you want. :greengrin
Don't mistake me for part of the 'donkey pack.'' The man is a buffoon and should go, his incompetence has caused further damage but those who employ him have more questions to answer. They will be delighted that he is the main fall guy here.

Not mistaking you for a donkey :greengrin and understand that you are coming from a kinda realpolitik/negotiating place. But it's a peculiarly donkeyesque position to insist that everyone has to negotiate at all with der Hun. They may well be back in a position of power in an unspecified number of years - meanwhile, they should take whatever comes their way. They've already, to their amazement, been telt to GTF from the SPL. No reason why they can't also be telt to GTF from SFL1 (think this has halfway happened already). If they are further telt to GTF altogether from the SFL this year, and the rest of Scottish fitba gets on with re-organising itself, well and good.

As a side issue, there's a much bigger picture here which imo shouldn't get lost in the detailed argy-bargy about the difference between SFL1 and SFL3. HunFC is a vile, shameful institution, and will want to continue/re-emerge as a vile, shameful institution. If you want to be introducing realpolitik to trump strict fitba rules, then howsabout embracing the possibility that diminishing HunFC's stature in any way available, even if only temporarily, is an unequivocal social good.

[Baw Baggio]

https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/status/221320198114918401

Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
Stewart Regan declares that Andy Murray will lose on Sunday unless Sevco FC is admitted to SFL1.

:greengrin

[marinello59]

Not mistaking you for a donkey :greengrin and understand that you are coming from a kinda realpolitik/negotiating place. But it's a peculiarly donkeyesque position to insist that everyone has to negotiate at all with der Hun. They may well be back in a position of power in an unspecified number of years - meanwhile, they should take whatever comes their way. They've already, to their amazement, been telt to GTF from the SPL. No reason why they can't also be telt to GTF from SFL1 (think this has halfway happened already). If they are further telt to GTF altogether from the SFL this year, and the rest of Scottish fitba gets on with re-organising itself, well and good.

As a side issue, there's a much bigger picture here which imo shouldn't get lost in the detailed argy-bargy about the difference between SFL1 and SFL3. HunFC is a vile, shameful institution, and will want to continue/re-emerge as a vile, shameful institution. If you want to be introducing realpolitik to trump strict fitba rules, then howsabout embracing the possibility that diminishing HunFC's stature in any way available, even if only temporarily, is an unequivocal social good.

I totally agree. :greengrin

[Seveno]

Well done Andy Murray. I'm sure the rest of the Murray clan will be right behind him in this their annus horribilis.

[jonty]

Sorry, the new company getting into the 1st division would not be fine, it would be wholly unacceptable.

If they're going to be playing league football next season, they MUST be in the 3rd division.

Sanctions could be expulsion from the league (EBTs/dual contracts/bring game into disrepute)
Payments to all the clubs and businesses they've stiffed.
Payments back of all the monies illegally won because of dual contracts and awarded to the clubs appropriately (given that rangers would have lost those games 3-0 (?))
Points deductions for the next x seasons for going into liquidation.
Barred from the SPL for the next x season (ok i made that one up, but why not?)

I dont agree, or think that they should be in Div1, i'm just saying that if they're there because they were 'rangers' then they need to accept any and all punishments that go with it.
TBH if they don't end up in Div 3 (or lower) then I wont be supporting an SPL club OR and SFL club next season because the games fixed.

[calmac12000]

Sanctions could be expulsion from the league (EBTs/dual contracts/bring game into disrepute)
Payments to all the clubs and businesses they've stiffed.
Payments back of all the monies illegally won because of dual contracts and awarded to the clubs appropriately (given that rangers would have lost those games 3-0 (?))
Points deductions for the next x seasons for going into liquidation.
Barred from the SPL for the next x season (ok i made that one up, but why not?)

I dont agree, or think that they should be in Div1, i'm just saying that if they're there because they were 'rangers' then they need to accept any and all punishments that go with it.
TBH if they don't end up in Div 3 (or lower) then I wont be supporting an SPL club OR and SFL club next season because the games fixed.

Hear,hear!:na na:

[jonty]

Hear,hear!:na na:
I'll be taking up golf - sitting in a club house, watching it piss with rain on the greens :agree:

[marinello59]

I'll be taking up golf - sitting in a club house, watching it piss with rain on the greens :agree:

So basically it's the pub for you.:greengrin

[jonty]

So basically it's the pub for you.:greengrin
Actually - that would save on clubs, club membership, stupid trousers and green fees.

sorted :not worth

[Saorsa]

I would be disappointed if you didn't.:greengrinI'd hate tae disappoint :wink: :greengrin

[SJNB Hibby]

A'body paying attention to the poll? Seems "Opposed but will continue to support the game" has gone from around 30% to over 35% since Thursday. Some people must be happy that there has been something concrete
We are all Hibs fans or we wouldnt be here, 15000+ posts later

:flag::flag:

[jgl07]

So that 7-0 humping at Ipox, when Gazza was playing never happened....Praise the lord....:greengrin

As long as the 1-0 win at Ibrox earlier in the same season will still count.

[Steve-O]

So that 7-0 humping at Ipox, when Gazza was playing never happened....Praise the lord....:greengrin

All of us that were there will have to go for some sort of memory wiping treatment, like in Total Recall :greengrin

[Pete]

I'm starting to lose track here ..

Have they actually proposed any sanctions for Division 1 entry?

Would those sanctions be enforceable (legally/NewCo)?

I still feel that Div3 is the "right" route to take, but it's NOT a punishment it's a consequence of actions.
After reading your post I might consider a Div1 entry, but ONLY if the sanctions WERE a punishment and that they were severe enough that the only ones to gain would be the other teams.
It would also have to include a larger league and fairer distribution of money.

I'm sure the proposal from the SFL included Sevco having to pay all of Old Rangers' football related debts and a three year ban from Europe but I cant find anything now. Maybe I'm going mad.

I think these sanctions, or heavier ones preferably, would simply be made a condition of entry to the first division. This hasn't happened before so I'm not sure they could challenge anything if it was made clear that these conditions are a trade-off and the matter considered closed.
If people tried to sanction them for entering the third then that might get messy.

The whole issue for me is the fact that the old firm are split now and there is nothing holding back real change in the SPL. Lets be honest, the big one is gate money and every club in a league containing even one of the old firm would jump at the chance of taking a 75/25 split in season ticket and walk up money. The SPL clubs can vote this through regardless and Celtic can like it or lump it. The OF and the media wont like it but it can be countered by looking at where football fans come from and where they go to watch football. This is merely balancing things up for the "good of the game".

If Rangers are in div3, these SPL changes can still be made but what about all the proposals for reconstruction of the SFL? I've a feeling the governing bodies will simply forget about any of those ideas as they were merely sweeteners to get Sevco up near the top and save their bacon.

I'm just scared that Celtic and Sevco will be back at the top again winning the league by 30 points in three years and nothing will have changed. We have to vote through a share in gate money as that's the only thing that will have any effect. Any other proposed change wont go far enough...and we need real change to increase competition.

[Www1875hfc]

Found this quite interesting? See what you think.

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

[ano hibby]

Found this quite interesting? See what you think.

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

Was just about to post this link. I think this is a very important contribution to the debate about finances of Scottish football. Provides statistical evidence of the bullying etc as well as incompetence of Messrs Doncaster Regan etc

[grunt]

Haven't seen this posted on here, apologies if I've missed it.
Thank goodness there are some honest and straight-talking Chairmen in the SFL.

http://www.raithrovers.net/3998/sfl-special-general-meeting-friday-13th-july-2012.htm


The club has this evening received the notice of resolutions to be voted on next Friday and we are told to expect an information pack at some time next week. We hope that this pack will present a more balanced report to SFL member clubs than they have so far received.At last Tuesday’s meeting, financial information provided by Neil Doncaster showed an unrealistic worst case scenario. It showed the impact of potential total loss of 3 TV contracts, all of which had been inexplicably agreed on the basis that the broadcaster could walk away if either Rangers or Celtic were not in the SPL. His information did not, however, set out the potentially positive impact of negotiating replacement contracts with other broadcasters or alternatively the much mentioned possibility of launching SPL TV (which we understand could have been launched within a matter of months).

Mr Doncaster warned SFL members that if these contracts were indeed lost, this would mean the annual payment to the SFL under the Settlement Agreement would either be greatly reduced or not paid at all. Raith Rovers FC believes this not to be the case, and that the SPL would remain both contractually obliged and able to pay the £1.9m – £2m annual sum, even in that worst case scenario. We call upon the SFL Board to clarify its view on this vital point urgently, before club boards finalise their positions on these important votes.

We are also concerned that there has not as yet been an opportunity for clubs to receive legal advice from the SFL and/or debate the potential consequences on the smooth running of our league in the event that the Courts are asked to annull/strike down any of the corporate transactions that have led to the current position of Sevco Scotland Ltd as owners of certain assets of the Rangers oldco. Indeed, the position as regards the potential sanctions to be applied by the Scottish FA via its Appellate Tribunal has also still to be bottomed out. In summary, we remain concerned that the SPL clubs have overwhelmingly voted to pass on this potential time bomb, which may yet explode once passed to the SFL’s jurisdiction, and we are being asked to accept this new company into membership, worse still in our top division.
Without all of this information, and the opportunity for clubs to further discuss these issues on a fully informed basis amongst themselves before the formal SGM, in a similar format to last Tuesday’s meeting, we are concerned that the fairness and transparency of the process itself is at risk of being compromised.

Raith Rovers FC will consider its stance with regard to attendance at this meeting once we receive the information from the SFL.

[Mon Dieu4]

That is a belter of a statement from Raith, well done them

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Haven't seen this posted on here, apologies if I've missed it.
Thank goodness there are some honest and straight-talking Chairmen in the SFL.

http://www.raithrovers.net/3998/sfl-special-general-meeting-friday-13th-july-2012.htm

What a brilliant statement!

More proof that the heads of Scottish football are corrupt to the core.

Hopefully the other SFL clubs will also stand up against these blackmail and scaremongering tactics

Well done the Rovers, proud to share my stadium with you

[1875godsgift]

Haven't seen this posted on here, apologies if I've missed it.
Thank goodness there are some honest and straight-talking Chairmen in the SFL.

http://www.raithrovers.net/3998/sfl-special-general-meeting-friday-13th-july-2012.htm

:top marks

I'd like to see the actual contracts for TV rights, particularly the paragraphs stating the companies can renege on the deal should either of the old firm be relegated or cease to exist.
For the sake of transparency, Doncaster?

[lucky]

Found this quite interesting? See what you think.

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/

The SPL tv deal is only worth what someone is willing to pay so the saints fans tables are not really any value in the debate. The SPL gets what it gets because the EPL is the top league within our tv area. It would be better to compare against the welsh, Irish and Northern Irish deals

[Zondervan]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

[lapsedhibee]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

Judging by the excellent statements we've seen from them so far, SFL chairmen are not stupid enough to be convinced by halfwits like Goram and Hately, so who is all this pleading supposed to be for? Is there some sort of concerted attempt now to compete with Celtc for the prize of most victimised club in Scotland? :dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

The SPL tv deal is only worth what someone is willing to pay so the saints fans tables are not really any value in the debate. The SPL gets what it gets because the EPL is the top league within our tv area. It would be better to compare against the welsh, Irish and Northern Irish deals

Shirley the saintee's point is that someone would be willing to pay more if the seller's competence were greater, non?

[Hainan Hibs]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

Blood boiling at reading those.

Hately "
By the letter of the law, it should be the Third Division but this isn't an ordinary case. Rangers and Celtic ARE Scottish football."


I just don't have the words.

[Jim44]

The SPL tv deal is only worth what someone is willing to pay so the saints fans tables are not really any value in the debate. The SPL gets what it gets because the EPL is the top league within our tv area. It would be better to compare against the welsh, Irish and Northern Irish deals

Agreed. Doncaster could make mincemeat of the comparison. Surely the figures would only be relevant if it was the same TV company applying the same criteria in every country. Sorry if I've overlooked something obvious.

[McSwanky]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

What a laugh, Hately and Goram lecturing us on finance.

[Onion]

Blood boiling at reading those.

Hately "
By the letter of the law, it should be the Third Division but this isn't an ordinary case. Rangers and Celtic ARE Scottish football."


I just don't have the words.



Don't worry about it. The more these idiots spout their bile, the more likely it is that the Huns will get their just deserts. This just adds to the "We Are Rangers" arrogance that riled so many SFL Chairmen - and which might yet see them plopped into Div 3. I'd be more concerned if these huns started to be all contrite and apologetic, as they're more likely to get a sympathetic hearing. But a hun is a hun. No one likes them, and no one cares anymore :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Goram is just a mess....BOTH of him

[degenerated]

What a laugh, Hately and Goram lecturing us on finance.

Perhaps one of the Andy Gorams is a financial expert, it might not have been the loyalist low life jakey one that wrote the whole article. :agree

[SouthMoroccoStu]

What a laugh, Hately and Goram lecturing us on finance.

Irony can be pretty ironic some times.

As for the comment that rangers and Celtic are Scottish football so they should be allowed to flaunt the rules and be above the laws every else has to play by.......:rolleyes:

What's to be expected, when they have been allowed to get away with it for so long. This is what these fools over in Glasgow genuinely think

[BEEJ]

That is a belter of a statement from Raith, well done them
:agree:

A rare oasis of informed straight-talking in this never-ending game of smoke and mirrors.

[greenginger]

Irony can be pretty ironic some times.

As for the comment that rangers and Celtic are Scottish football so they should be allowed to flaunt the rules and be above the laws every else has to play by.......:rolleyes:

What's to be expected, when they have been allowed to get away with it for so long. This is what these fools over in Glasgow genuinely think


Agree, and we have now got a chance to re-balance the game in Scotland and that chance must not be missed no matter what short-term damage is done to Club finances by breaking the Old Firm stanglehold that has ruined football in this Country.

[Hibercelona]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

Why oh why do I torture myself?!?!?! :boo hoo:

I tell myself "No! I'm not putting myself through all of this again".

Then I click on the friggin links!! :grr:

[YehButNoBut]

Rangers Buzz‏@Rangers_buzzThe Record reports Charles Green is to give fans the chance to own half of Rangers with a new share issue to be announced next week

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/)


CHARLES GREEN is set to keep his promise to Rangers fans – by giving them the chance to own half the club.

Many supporters questioned Green’s reasons for buying the stricken club for £5.5million and some have backed consortiums fronted by Walter Smith and John Brown. But a stockbroker is now due to arrive from London next week to help the club launch a share issue.

And an Ibrox source said: “We’re going to announce shares will be offered for sale to supporters and this proves what we said at the start.

“We’re bringing a stockbroker up from London. People can come to the ground and register if they want a share.

“They will be given the opportunity to buy shares for the same price as everyone else and if they buy all that are available to them, they will own 50 per cent of the club.

“Contrary to what some claim, we’re going to do a lot of things we said we’d do and more besides. Things that are not yet public.”

[FranckSuzy]

Could the SFL vote just keep on being adjourned/delayed so that it unfortunately is too late for the start of the season? A la when a jury cannot reach a unanimous decision in a trial :pray:

[Waxy]

Hately and goram. Now i hope yous arent even allowed back into div3 and are destroyed

[Kaiser1962]

Shirley the saintee's point is that someone would be willing to pay more if the seller's competence were greater, non?

Where the saintees tables could be questioned is that the population of the countries he lists, which is in theory your potential customer base, is not included. It would be interesting to see how things compared then.

By only glancing at it I would suggest that Norway and Denmark are high while Poland is extremely low. There are many other factors that may have to be taken into account in order to give a true reflection.

[stokesmessiah]

“We’re bringing a stockbroker up from London. People can come to the ground and register if they want a share.

“They will be given the opportunity to buy shares for the same price as everyone else and if they buy all that are available to them, they will own 50 per cent of the club.

“Contrary to what some claim, we’re going to do a lot of things we said we’d do and more besides. Things that are not yet public.”

I like how they have made that sound all fancy by bringing up a stockbroker from london. If i were an orc i would bloody well hope he has a bowler hat, braces and a briefcase or i am not buying.

Just for fun why dont we print off some flyers that contain the pictures of the last lot of "rangers shareholders" as they left the meeting where they were told there money and rangers are gone. We could hand them out at Ibrox as people flood in with giro cheques in hand desperate to buy a piece of the institution that is Scottish football. Will be nice, we could make a day of it.

[The Green Goblin]

I bet next season and the season after that, that all those hun apologists who masquerade as journos and columnists will keep this annoying habit they still have, of referring to Sevco as "Rangers". This is a much more important issue than it may seem. It's important that this is not allowed to happen.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Hately and goram. Now i hope yous arent even allowed back into div3 and are destroyed

That's a very good point. Who says they have to be let into the league system at all?!?

Let Edinburgh Spartans (or another) in and maybe next time next time there is a league spot available, we will consider their application along with the others.

[greenginger]

That's a very good point. Who says they have to be let into the league system at all?!?

Let Edinburgh Spartans (or another) in and maybe next time next time there is a league spot available, we will consider their application along with the others.


Could that be the reason Club 12 has not been named yet ? :confused:

[green glory]

Hately and goram. Now i hope yous arent even allowed back into div3 and are destroyed

This.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well the mainstream media campaign for Newco into Division 1 is in full flight today, no doubt at the behest of the Newco press officer.

Goram in The Sun and Hately in the record spouting exactly the same message, almost word for word, about the Armageddon that will be Scottish football if Huns go to Div3.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4415225/Rangers-in-First-is-only-way-to-save-our-game.html

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/markhateley/2012/07/ally-mccoist-must-forget-divis.html

My opinion on huns in Div1 is well known.

But that decision is for the SFL cubs to make ... without moronic utterings from ex rangers players, or for that matter threats or pressure from the SPL.

Its this sort of crap which will get them punted to Div3 with no chance of Div1 .... nobody likes threats and nobody likes to be bullied ... and especially ... nobody likes to be told they are an afterthought to the main show.

"The old firm are Scottish football" .... my god, its like the last 6 months never happened ... these idiots have learned nothing!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Blood boiling at reading those.

Hately "
By the letter of the law, it should be the Third Division but this isn't an ordinary case. Rangers and Celtic ARE Scottish football."


I just don't have the words.



Their ignorance and stupidity is astounding......Why don't all clubs outside of Old Firm, just not bother anymore and pack up....Let the Old Firm play each other every week, a derby on Sky every week, all the media and SFA delirious and salavating at the mere thought.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

My opinion on huns in Div1 is well known.

But that decision is for the SFL cubs to make ... without moronic utterings from ex rangers players, or for that matter threats or pressure from the SPL.

Its this sort of crap which will get them punted to Div3 with no chance of Div1 .... nobody likes threats and nobody likes to be bullied ... and especially ... nobody likes to be told they are an afterthought to the main show.

"The old firm are Scottish football" .... my god, its like the last 6 months never happened ... these idiots have learned nothing!

They will never learn Bovril, we have to all bow down to Derhun and thank them for giving us endless supplies of money throughout the years.....All hail Derhun.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Hately and goram. Now i hope yous arent even allowed back into div3 and are destroyed

I must admit my stance has always been wanting them to die outright, and hope they take their Parkhead neighbours with them in the same casket....Bleeping Arrogant, ignorant, bile spouting, self righteous bleepers

[Hibercelona]

They will never learn Bovril, we have to all bow down to Derhun and thank them for giving us endless supplies of money throughout the years.....All hail Derhun.....

:agree:

How dare people try and speak up against them. Do people not realize just how much insignificant clubs such as ourselves owe to them?

We should be letting them straight back into the SPL and dig our hands deep into our pockets to ensure that they stay in a top 2 position.

[Kojock]

What really gets ma goat is how Goram etc continue to spout utter nonsense continually using words like VICTIMS, PUNISHMENT & DEMOTION

The only punishment meted out so far is the 10 point deduction for going into administration (which made no difference). The £160K fine that they cant pay and a transfer embargo which they appealed against and won.

The real punishment has been endured by all the individuals, companies and public services that they owe millions to. They are the real victims in all this. Not some unemployable jakey ******wit from Govan who has to queue up outside Boots Chemist everyday for his Methadone and has a gub like a row of condemned houses.

Hearts have even suffered a worse punishment than Der Hun as they are still owed a never to be seen again £800K by them.

Der Hun have NOT been demoted they have ceased to exist as a football club which can take any further part in the Scottish game. They are as dead as the proverbial parrot. What part of that is so difficult for Fat Traynor et al to understand. In the words of the Proclaimers its "Rangers no more"

The Newco have not been demoted they have never been in any league of any sort to have been demoted. If they apply for the vacant position left in the Scottish Leagues caused by Der Huns demise and are lucky enough to be accepted over other clubs such as Cove Rangers Spartans etc. They should count themselves lucky to be given the chance to compete in that league. If they are parachuted into Div 1 then Newco have been REWARDED and PROmoted up two divisions.

So please could all you overweight, overpaid and over promoted Hun apologists stop using those three words when giving your uneducated and unwanted opinion on this whole sorry mess which was created by Rangers own doing.

[Baldy Foghorn]

What really gets ma goat is how Goram etc continue to spout utter nonsense continually using words like VICTIMS, PUNISHMENT & DEMOTION

The only punishment meted out so far is the 10 point deduction for going into administration (which made no difference). The £160K fine that they cant pay and a transfer embargo which they appealed against and won.

The real punishment has been endured by all the individuals, companies and public services that they owe millions to. They are the real victims in all this. Not some unemployable jakey ******wit from Govan who has to queue up outside Boots Chemist everyday for his Methadone who has a gub like a row of condemned houses. Hearts have even suffered a worse punishment than Der Hun as they are still owed a never to be seen again £800K by them.

Der Hun have NOT been demoted they have ceased to exist as a football club which can take any further part in the Scottish game. They are as dead as the proverbial parrot. What part of that is so difficult for Fat Traynor et al to understand. In the words of the Proclaimers its "Rangers no more"

The Newco have not been demoted they have never been in any league of any sort to have been demoted. If they apply for the vacant position left in the Scottish Leagues caused by Der Huns demise and are lucky enough to be accepted over other clubs such as Cove Rangers Spartans etc. They should count themselves lucky to be given a chance to compete in that league. If they are parachuted into Div 1 then Newco have been REWARDED and PROmoted up two divisions.

So please could all you overweight, overpaid and over promoted Hun apologists stop using those three words when giving your uneducated and unwanted opinion on this whole sorry mess which was created by Rangers own doing.

Spot on HSH, END OF!!!!!!!

[Tynie01011973]

Copied from P&B

Not sure if this has been posted on here or whether its true or not but these are stated to be the minutes from the RFFF meeting on the 4th July!! Dear oh dear! They want Div 3/we want Div 3....whats the ******g problem???

Subject: This is not a wind up. These are apparently genuine minutes! Absolutely unbelieveable!
Meeting 4 July 2012

Sandy Jardine welcomed all to the meeting and introduced the top table.

The results of the RFFF poll showed an overwhelming desire (76%) from the fans out of almost 20,000 polled to play in Division 3. A straw poll was taken in the room; the result again reflected an overwhelming support for Division 3.

The entire Rangers board then entered the meeting, introduced themselves and explained roughly what they had done in the past.

Malcolm Murray wants to rebuild the club. All assets are owned by Sevco Scotland. Craig Whyte is definitely not involved, sworn statements have been lodged with relevant bodies including the SFA regarding this.

Charles Green talked about 'balanced shareholding' – no individual person would have control of the club again. He said everyone 'outside of this room' and the people we represent is Anti-Rangers.

The board stated that £11 million has been raised so far and injected into the club. They reckon there is roughly £3 million working capital, with more money coming in over the next couple of weeks.

John Brown asked the panel if they were still going to have £30 million available by mid-July. Charles Green said that figure was expected given while they expected a CVA to be agreed. The board were confident that more money and more investment was coming into the club and that the targets would be met.

A representative from Rangers Unite asked the board "What would you see as an exit price?" Imran replied that he believed on a bad day the club was worth £50 million.

There is currently £3 million in the bank account and an expected £2.6 million coming in over the next two weeks. This further investment is guaranteed and they have legal documents to prove so.

A Rangers Standard representative asked Charles Green to read out the names of the current shareholders. A number of names were read out and it was revealed that the major shareholder is Blue Pitch Holdings with 23%, which would be getting diluted to between 10 and 15% when the other investors come on board. Ian Hart was discussed as the questioner stated that he previously said he wasn't an investor – the reasons for this were explained by CG.

CG stated the club would be floated on the Stock Market giving fans the chance to own shares in the club.

Vanguard Bears member and representative from RTID NI asked how CG feels about the fans overwhelming wishes to go to Division 3. Charles Green responded with "I have publicly said that I would accept that."

Charles Green referred to the players that had left as turncoats. Alan McGregor was the only one to call Sandy Jardine afterwards, with Jardine also mentioning ex Celtic PR ma Peter McLean as being Steven Naismith's agent.

CG expects criminal charges to be brought to the previous regime.

CG was asked if the possibility of playing in England exists and if he made an attempt at buying Bury FC. He responded that he was attracted by Bury and hoped to mention the club along with Rangers. Unfortunately distance was going to be a problem, as after Wimbledon became MK Dons the football league changed its rules to state that any merger between two clubs could only happen if the clubs were within roughly 60 miles of each other.

He also looked at the possibility of buying Carlisle, but believes we cannot merge with an English club. We would have to start at the bottom of the conference if we were to go to England.

A supporter asked when the current money in the club would run out without further investment. No answer was given. The same supporter was asked later to view the Club assets documents (the one's Findlay wants to see), but declined the offer.

A representative from Denny then informed the panel that he had four reasons why we should go into Division 3. First he believed it would test Charles Green resolve; secondly he believed it would show the benefit of Auchenhowie and allow the management team to gain experience. Third, it would galvanise and unite the Rangers support, and lastly it would allow us to move on and concentrate on defeating the SNP's fight for independence.

Malcolm Murray stated that the process for changing the name of Murray Park is underway.

John Brown and Andy Goram both asked if Donald Findlay QC could see the title deeds of the club, Brian Stockbridge, the club accountant, told John Brown to give him a call and they would set up a meeting where Donald Findlay could see the title deeds. This didn't seem enough for Brown, he believed that a secure location had to be set up because Donald Findlay didn't want people to know that his name had been mentioned, even though John Brown mentioned it on numerous occasions.

John Brown then claimed that a friend of his offered £11 million for the club before Charles Green's consortium and that Duff and Phelps had rejected it or ignored it. This was debunked and denied by the board.

Brian Stockbridge twice explained the financial situation to Brown which appeared to go in one ear and out the other….

Charles Green left the meeting to attend another meeting with our enemies.

Various supporters took to the floor offering best wishes to Ally McCoist, stating they would be renewing their Season Tickets as there was no alternative.

Questions to Ally McCoist :

Q – Will you be asking the fans to renew their ST's?

A – Ally said he couldn't ask the fans to renew ST's as he didn't know which players would be there or where we would be playing and he wouldn't want it on his conscience that our hard-earned cash was being spent on something he couldn't guarantee. Also, he didn't have full trust in the current board for two reasons; he hasn't known them long enough yet and because of the actions of the previous incumbents.

Q – If you were at our (the supporters) side of the table would you buy a ST?

A – Ally responded, "In a heartbeat….."

Q – Would the manager prefer Division I or Division 3?

A – Ally replied that he felt his duty as the manager was to carry out the fans wishes, if 80% of them wanted Division 3 then he would be 100% behind that. He said that only six first-team players turned up for training plus all the kids. He was unsure if Edu, Bocanegra and Goian would return from their extended break.

Q – It was reported in the rags that you were resigning from the club, was that the case?

A – It was explained by Ally that he had a fall out with CG – things like that happen, but never at any time was he for walking away.

John Brown was then asked to take the microphone for 10 mins – which turned into almost 30. Virtually nothing of the way forward for Rangers was discussed. He was prompted to come to the top table by RFFF Chairman to view the relevant documentation to satisfy his demands, which he declined. The meeting was then informed by Chairman McCormick that he was Brown's accountant, which brought about many wry smiles from those assembled.

Sandy Jardine then informed the meeting before closing that there will be another RFFF meeting convened soon to discuss the position of the RFFF and funds within it.


John Brown is thee guy they all seem to think will be their saviour :faf::faf:

[Winston Ingram]

What really gets ma goat is how Goram etc continue to spout utter nonsense continually using words like VICTIMS, PUNISHMENT & DEMOTION

The only punishment meted out so far is the 10 point deduction for going into administration (which made no difference). The £160K fine that they cant pay and a transfer embargo which they appealed against and won.

The real punishment has been endured by all the individuals, companies and public services that they owe millions to. They are the real victims in all this. Not some unemployable jakey ******wit from Govan who has to queue up outside Boots Chemist everyday for his Methadone and has a gub like a row of condemned houses.

Hearts have even suffered a worse punishment than Der Hun as they are still owed a never to be seen again £800K by them.

Der Hun have NOT been demoted they have ceased to exist as a football club which can take any further part in the Scottish game. They are as dead as the proverbial parrot. What part of that is so difficult for Fat Traynor et al to understand. In the words of the Proclaimers its "Rangers no more"

The Newco have not been demoted they have never been in any league of any sort to have been demoted. If they apply for the vacant position left in the Scottish Leagues caused by Der Huns demise and are lucky enough to be accepted over other clubs such as Cove Rangers Spartans etc. They should count themselves lucky to be given the chance to compete in that league. If they are parachuted into Div 1 then Newco have been REWARDED and PROmoted up two divisions.

So please could all you overweight, overpaid and over promoted Hun apologists stop using those three words when giving your uneducated and unwanted opinion on this whole sorry mess which was created by Rangers own doing.

:agree:

[StevieC]

Rangers Buzz‏@Rangers_buzzThe Record reports Charles Green is to give fans the chance to own half of Rangers with a new share issue to be announced next week

Which, to me, sounds like "my financial backers have all pulled out and I need someone daft enough to fund this money making scheme of mine".

In 6 months time these shares will be worth the same as the current ones ... which is a pound less than what Whyte paid for his!

[grunt]

Archie MacPherson on Sportsound - what an idiot!

[Kojock]

John Brown is thee guy they all seem to think will be their saviour :faf::faf:

We,ve had Craig Whyte, Charles Green, John Brown, The Blue Knights, Ian Black. All we need now is Chas n Dave singing Snooker Loopy

[Saorsa]

:hilarious
and lastly it would allow us to move on and concentrate on defeating the SNP's fight for independence.

WTF has that got tae dae with fitba? They cannae help but bring politics in tae it. He missed out the catholic plot tae overthrow the monarchy though :rolleyes:

[LancashireHibby]

A representative from Denny then informed the panel that he had four reasons why we should go into Division 3. First he believed it would test Charles Green resolve; secondly he believed it would show the benefit of Auchenhowie and allow the management team to gain experience. Third, it would galvanise and unite the Rangers support, and lastly it would allow us to move on and concentrate on defeating the SNP's fight for independence.
Surely this sentence would suggest it's a wind up? Surely?!

[Off the bar]

Archie MacPherson on Sportsound - what an idiot!

someone should take gandpa MacPherson back to his padded cell, not in real world. yet another hun appologist glasgow weedga ****

[The Green Goblin]

Copied from P&B

Not sure if this has been posted on here or whether its true or not but these are stated to be the minutes from the RFFF meeting on the 4th July!! Dear oh dear! They want Div 3/we want Div 3....whats the ******g problem???

Subject: This is not a wind up. These are apparently genuine minutes! Absolutely unbelieveable!
Meeting 4 July 2012

Sandy Jardine welcomed all to the meeting and introduced the top table.

The results of the RFFF poll showed an overwhelming desire (76%) from the fans out of almost 20,000 polled to play in Division 3. A straw poll was taken in the room; the result again reflected an overwhelming support for Division 3.

The entire Rangers board then entered the meeting, introduced themselves and explained roughly what they had done in the past.

Malcolm Murray wants to rebuild the club. All assets are owned by Sevco Scotland. Craig Whyte is definitely not involved, sworn statements have been lodged with relevant bodies including the SFA regarding this.

Charles Green talked about 'balanced shareholding' – no individual person would have control of the club again. He said everyone 'outside of this room' and the people we represent is Anti-Rangers.

The board stated that £11 million has been raised so far and injected into the club. They reckon there is roughly £3 million working capital, with more money coming in over the next couple of weeks.

John Brown asked the panel if they were still going to have £30 million available by mid-July. Charles Green said that figure was expected given while they expected a CVA to be agreed. The board were confident that more money and more investment was coming into the club and that the targets would be met.

A representative from Rangers Unite asked the board "What would you see as an exit price?" Imran replied that he believed on a bad day the club was worth £50 million.

There is currently £3 million in the bank account and an expected £2.6 million coming in over the next two weeks. This further investment is guaranteed and they have legal documents to prove so.

A Rangers Standard representative asked Charles Green to read out the names of the current shareholders. A number of names were read out and it was revealed that the major shareholder is Blue Pitch Holdings with 23%, which would be getting diluted to between 10 and 15% when the other investors come on board. Ian Hart was discussed as the questioner stated that he previously said he wasn't an investor – the reasons for this were explained by CG.

CG stated the club would be floated on the Stock Market giving fans the chance to own shares in the club.

Vanguard Bears member and representative from RTID NI asked how CG feels about the fans overwhelming wishes to go to Division 3. Charles Green responded with "I have publicly said that I would accept that."

Charles Green referred to the players that had left as turncoats. Alan McGregor was the only one to call Sandy Jardine afterwards, with Jardine also mentioning ex Celtic PR ma Peter McLean as being Steven Naismith's agent.

CG expects criminal charges to be brought to the previous regime.

CG was asked if the possibility of playing in England exists and if he made an attempt at buying Bury FC. He responded that he was attracted by Bury and hoped to mention the club along with Rangers. Unfortunately distance was going to be a problem, as after Wimbledon became MK Dons the football league changed its rules to state that any merger between two clubs could only happen if the clubs were within roughly 60 miles of each other.

He also looked at the possibility of buying Carlisle, but believes we cannot merge with an English club. We would have to start at the bottom of the conference if we were to go to England.

A supporter asked when the current money in the club would run out without further investment. No answer was given. The same supporter was asked later to view the Club assets documents (the one's Findlay wants to see), but declined the offer.

A representative from Denny then informed the panel that he had four reasons why we should go into Division 3. First he believed it would test Charles Green resolve; secondly he believed it would show the benefit of Auchenhowie and allow the management team to gain experience. Third, it would galvanise and unite the Rangers support, and lastly it would allow us to move on and concentrate on defeating the SNP's fight for independence.

Malcolm Murray stated that the process for changing the name of Murray Park is underway.

John Brown and Andy Goram both asked if Donald Findlay QC could see the title deeds of the club, Brian Stockbridge, the club accountant, told John Brown to give him a call and they would set up a meeting where Donald Findlay could see the title deeds. This didn't seem enough for Brown, he believed that a secure location had to be set up because Donald Findlay didn't want people to know that his name had been mentioned, even though John Brown mentioned it on numerous occasions.

John Brown then claimed that a friend of his offered £11 million for the club before Charles Green's consortium and that Duff and Phelps had rejected it or ignored it. This was debunked and denied by the board.

Brian Stockbridge twice explained the financial situation to Brown which appeared to go in one ear and out the other….

Charles Green left the meeting to attend another meeting with our enemies.

Various supporters took to the floor offering best wishes to Ally McCoist, stating they would be renewing their Season Tickets as there was no alternative.

Questions to Ally McCoist :

Q – Will you be asking the fans to renew their ST's?

A – Ally said he couldn't ask the fans to renew ST's as he didn't know which players would be there or where we would be playing and he wouldn't want it on his conscience that our hard-earned cash was being spent on something he couldn't guarantee. Also, he didn't have full trust in the current board for two reasons; he hasn't known them long enough yet and because of the actions of the previous incumbents.

Q – If you were at our (the supporters) side of the table would you buy a ST?

A – Ally responded, "In a heartbeat….."

Q – Would the manager prefer Division I or Division 3?

A – Ally replied that he felt his duty as the manager was to carry out the fans wishes, if 80% of them wanted Division 3 then he would be 100% behind that. He said that only six first-team players turned up for training plus all the kids. He was unsure if Edu, Bocanegra and Goian would return from their extended break.

Q – It was reported in the rags that you were resigning from the club, was that the case?

A – It was explained by Ally that he had a fall out with CG – things like that happen, but never at any time was he for walking away.

John Brown was then asked to take the microphone for 10 mins – which turned into almost 30. Virtually nothing of the way forward for Rangers was discussed. He was prompted to come to the top table by RFFF Chairman to view the relevant documentation to satisfy his demands, which he declined. The meeting was then informed by Chairman McCormick that he was Brown's accountant, which brought about many wry smiles from those assembled.

Sandy Jardine then informed the meeting before closing that there will be another RFFF meeting convened soon to discuss the position of the RFFF and funds within it.


John Brown is thee guy they all seem to think will be their saviour :faf::faf:

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting. I am just wondering at those figures mentioned. If I was a creditor who the previous club had screwed over for huge amounts of money, I would be absolutely raging to see amounts in the millions being mentioned.

[One Day Soon]

:hilarious

WTF has that got tae dae with fitba? They cannae help but bring politics in tae it. He missed out the catholic plot tae overthrow the monarchy though :rolleyes:


As you know DD my politics are very different from yours, but I agree with you on this. A completely mental irrelevance if true and one which illustrates their total detachment from reality. Absolute Titanic deckchairs stuff.

[Saorsa]

As you know DD my politics are very different from yours, but I agree with you on this. A completely mental irrelevance if true and one which illustrates their total detachment from reality. Absolute Titanic deckchairs stuff.we can always agree on something :agree: :aok:

one of these days I may even agree with M59 on something :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

someone should take gandpa MacPherson back to his padded cell, not in real world. yet another hun appologist glasgow weedga ****

Claiming now to have foreseen HunFC troubles but it wasn't his job to publicise or dig into the problems. Twally.

[Brando7]

Rangers Buzz‏@Rangers_buzzThe Record reports Charles Green is to give fans the chance to own half of Rangers with a new share issue to be announced next week

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/)


CHARLES GREEN is set to keep his promise to Rangers fans – by giving them the chance to own half the club.

Many supporters questioned Green’s reasons for buying the stricken club for £5.5million and some have backed consortiums fronted by Walter Smith and John Brown. But a stockbroker is now due to arrive from London next week to help the club launch a share issue.

And an Ibrox source said: “We’re going to announce shares will be offered for sale to supporters and this proves what we said at the start.

“We’re bringing a stockbroker up from London. People can come to the ground and register if they want a share.

“They will be given the opportunity to buy shares for the same price as everyone else and if they buy all that are available to them, they will own 50 per cent of the club.

“Contrary to what some claim, we’re going to do a lot of things we said we’d do and more besides. Things that are not yet public.”

If I was them I'd be wanting to know which company I actually buying shares into. Is it Sevco Scotland which runs the business or Sevco Ltd, the holding company with the assets, licenses trademarks & IP etc

Last share issue raised £51million apparently

[Baldy Foghorn]

We,ve had Craig Whyte, Charles Green, John Brown, The Blue Knights, Ian Black. All we need now is Chas n Dave singing Snooker Loopy

Pot the reds and screw back....

Magic, all is sunny when Chas & Dave get a mention.....Maybe Brown will pull a "Rabbit" out the hat....Charles Green probably saying to their fans "Ain't no pleasing you".....They will be saying "What a miserable Saturday night", but in reality they "mustn't grumble".....

Anyone for anymore Chas & Dave puns.....Brightens up my day:greengrin

[Seveno]

Alex Thomson has just said on Off the Ball that his contact at HMRC told him 'we can get medieval and forensic' once Rangers enter liquidation.

So much blood to be spilt.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Archie MacPherson on Sportsound - what an idiot!

What's old Erchie hole saying?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Alex Thomson has just said on Off the Ball that his contact at HMRC told him 'we can get medieval and forensic' once Rangers enter liquidation.

So much blood to be spilt.

Sounds promising..........

[calmac12000]

Listening to Archie "Weetabix" MacPherson, doing his best to airbrush the last six months from history.
Unfortunately for Archie time travel has not been invented yet. Therefore, it is nonsensical to try and cobble together some sort of gerrymandered compromise totally lacking in credibility if not practicality.
Quite simply we're in a new situation requiring new and honest thinking.

[Hibercelona]

Pot the reds and screw back....

Magic, all is sunny when Chas & Dave get a mention.....Maybe Brown will pull a "Rabbit" out the hat....Charles Green probably saying to their fans "Ain't no pleasing you".....They will be saying "What a miserable Saturday night", but in reality they "mustn't grumble".....

Anyone for anymore Chas & Dave puns.....Brightens up my day:greengrin

I "Don't Give a Monkeys" to be honest.

[VickMackie]

If I was them I'd be wanting to know which company I actually buying shares into. Is it Sevco Scotland which runs the business or Sevco Ltd, the holding company with the assets, licenses trademarks & IP etc

Last share issue raised £51million apparently

Thought David Murray put the 50 million in from MIH cos they never took up the shares.

FFS their fighting fund raised about 80k. Skitters

[lapsedhibee]

Alex Thomson has just said on Off the Ball that his contact at HMRC told him 'we can get medieval and forensic' once Rangers enter liquidation.

So much blood to be spilt.

Also hinting, nudge nudge wink wink KWAM, that Whyte & Murray's relationship was perhaps not really one of duper and dupee. Super duper loverly jubberly if/when it all comes out.

[WindyMiller]

The SPL tv deal is only worth what someone is willing to pay so the saints fans tables are not really any value in the debate. The SPL gets what it gets because the EPL is the top league within our tv area. It would be better to compare against the welsh, Irish and Northern Irish deals

A few weeks ago the Dunfy chairman (Yorkston?) said, on Jim Spence's radio show, that Petrie had recently put forward an SPL TV proposition and was very favourable.

[Waxy]

Rangers Buzz‏@Rangers_buzzThe Record reports Charles Green is to give fans the chance to own half of Rangers with a new share issue to be announced next week

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/07/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-to-give-fans-chance-to-own-half-of-ibrox-club-with-new-share-issue-86908-23905404/)


CHARLES GREEN is set to keep his promise to Rangers fans – by giving them the chance to own half the club.

Many supporters questioned Green’s reasons for buying the stricken club for £5.5million and some have backed consortiums fronted by Walter Smith and John Brown. But a stockbroker is now due to arrive from London next week to help the club launch a share issue.

And an Ibrox source said: “We’re going to announce shares will be offered for sale to supporters and this proves what we said at the start.

“We’re bringing a stockbroker up from London. People can come to the ground and register if they want a share.

“They will be given the opportunity to buy shares for the same price as everyone else and if they buy all that are available to them, they will own 50 per cent of the club.

“Contrary to what some claim, we’re going to do a lot of things we said we’d do and more besides. Things that are not yet public.”They'll launch it on a monday.Thats when the weans ma's cash their monday books.

[CropleyWasGod]

Also hinting, nudge nudge wink wink KWAM, that Whyte & Murray's relationship was perhaps not really one of duper and dupee. Super duper loverly jubberly if/when it all comes out.

YYYYYYAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN :greengrin

Hibs.net had all that sorted back about Page 5.:rolleyes:

HIBS.Net. Giving you the truth, since 14/2/12.....

[Paisley Hibby]

La Liga is probably the only other league that has been totally dominated by just 2 clubs. Last season , for example, the gap between 2nd and 3rd was 30 points and some of the smaller clubs could not even get a shirt sponsor. So I was just wondering what would happen if (however unlikely) either Barca or Real Madrid were to end up in a similar position to Rangers? Would they have to start all over again or would the Spanish football authorities be like ours and fall over themselves trying to save them?

[lapsedhibee]

YYYYYYAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN :greengrin

Hibs.net had all that sorted back about Page 5.:rolleyes:

HIBS.Net. Giving you the truth, since 14/2/12.....

Ken but seeing it on here, pleasurable as that is, still not the same as hearing Sally Magnusson reading the court report off an autocue. :drool:

[Moulin Yarns]

Jane Lewis has just outlined the SFL proposals on Sportsound

vote 1 - Allow Nehuns into the SFL

vote 2 - Newhuns in the SFL3 UNLESS the SFL board agree the SPL 'sanctions' offer

That'll be SFL 1 then!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Jane Lewis has just outlined the SFL proposals on Sportsound

vote 1 - Allow Nehuns into the SFL

vote 2 - Newhuns in the SFL3 UNLESS the SFL board agree the SPL 'sanctions' offer

That'll be SFL 1 then!!!

That's not the way Longmuir said it yesterday.

Vote 1. Newco in SFL1.

If it's a yes, then another vote to enable them to change the rules to allow it. :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

That's not the way Longmuir said it yesterday.

Vote 1. Newco in SFL1.

If it's a yes, then another vote to enable them to change the rules to allow it. :rolleyes:

she was reading from an email from SFL to their clubs.

[ScottB]

La Liga is probably the only other league that has been totally dominated by just 2 clubs. Last season , for example, the gap between 2nd and 3rd was 30 points and some of the smaller clubs could not even get a shirt sponsor. So I was just wondering what would happen if (however unlikely) either Barca or Real Madrid were to end up in a similar position to Rangers? Would they have to start all over again or would the Spanish football authorities be like ours and fall over themselves trying to save them?

You never noticed how many times Real's debts get reduced by the national bank?

In the past they'd never have allowed them to get this stage. These days of broke banks, I could see them going under. But then in Spain there's the complication of B teams that could well pop up in the top league straight away and just drop the B...

[calmac12000]

There are two distinct issues 1) Rangers to a new division and 2) Re-organisation. There's absolutely no credible way that a magic wand and be waved and that Scottish football's various ills are going to be remedied before the start of next season.
Ipso facto, the only realistic solution is for the NewCo to be put in Division Three and a serious review with a deadline of end of next season to produce proposals for reorganisation.
BTW Taynor is a total fud!

[CropleyWasGod]

she was reading from an email from SFL to their clubs.

:rolleyes: Wish he'd make up his mind. He told The Telegraph something completely different yesterday.

This latest version makes more sense. However, it doesn't seem to allow for another club applying for the vacancy.

[Brando7]

Thought David Murray put the 50 million in from MIH cos they never took up the shares.

FFS their fighting fund raised about 80k. Skitters

you you are right there was only 1,263 new shareholders last time raising a big huge £307,530. :greengrin

[Hibees07]

If we a determined to send Rangers to the 3rd Division then pressure needs to be put on the SFL teams, should we threaten a supporter boycott of Scottish Cup & League Cup ties against these teams?.

[lapsedhibee]

BTW Taynor is a total fud!

'Rangers have been punished. Now it's time to compromise.' :crazy:

[lapsedhibee]

If we a determined to send Rangers to the 3rd Division then pressure needs to be put on the SFL teams, should we threaten a supporter boycott of Scottish Cup & League Cup ties against these teams?.

Nah. It'd be more direct just to threaten the chairmen and their families.

[steakbake]

Nah. It'd be more direct just to threaten the chairmen and their families.

The Rangers way?

[LeighLoyal]

Had to turn off Robbo and Jabba, never heard such utter sh ite in my life. Jabba using banks being bailed out as an analogy to help out the criminal hun cheats. The irony that he missed was Bank of Scotland funded all of Rangers nine in a row and 00's excesses, including the underwriting of the Murray share issue to the tune of £50m... Oh wait!! That money came from an MIM account. An MIM account that they filled with £50m on an IOU to Sir Moonbeams. As for Robbo, 'we can rescue Scottish football from the 'flames' by being nice to Sevco.' The only flames I see are around Newco Huns 2012, Robbo! They made their criminal bed and if it's on fire I wouldn't stop to piss on it. Pair of utter self preserving meedja cretins.

[alexedwards]

Jane Lewis has just outlined the SFL proposals on Sportsound

vote 1 - Allow Nehuns into the SFL

vote 2 - Newhuns in the SFL3 UNLESS the SFL board agree the SPL 'sanctions' offer

That'll be SFL 1 then!!!

This proposed item 2.
2. Members will direct SFL board to play sevco to 3rd division unless SFL can succesfully negotiate sufficient measures allowing them to authorise to play sevco in 1st division.

Meaning the proposed items are so loaded that you can't actually vote for Rangers to go into Div 3 at all - It's Div 1 or not at all.

The cheatin continues - 95% of fans can stick their views up their ass according to Longmuir/Regan/Doncaster.
Longmuir constructed this with the other 2 and is as suspect as they are now.

[marinello59]

we can always agree on something :agree: :aok:

one of these days I may even agree with M59 on something :greengrin


:greengrin

[VickMackie]

La Liga is probably the only other league that has been totally dominated by just 2 clubs. Last season , for example, the gap between 2nd and 3rd was 30 points and some of the smaller clubs could not even get a shirt sponsor. So I was just wondering what would happen if (however unlikely) either Barca or Real Madrid were to end up in a similar position to Rangers? Would they have to start all over again or would the Spanish football authorities be like ours and fall over themselves trying to save them?

They'd do the exact same as they've done here. You can't have either of those clubs missing from the world game. A couple of the biggest clubs for 70 years.

The OF are pissants in comparison.

They should still have to go through the leagues in the end I think.

[CropleyWasGod]

This proposed item 2.
2. Members will direct SFL board to play sevco to 3rd division unless SFL can succesfully negotiate sufficient measures allowing them to authorise to play sevco in 1st division.

Meaning the proposed items are so loaded that you can't actually vote for Rangers to go into Div 3 at all - It's Div 1 or not at all.

The cheatin continues - 95% of fans can stick their views up their ass according to Longmuir/Regan/Doncaster.
Longmuir constructed this with the other 2 and is as suspect as they are now.

Not how I read it. They can vote against Item 2. Ergo they are in D3.

[VickMackie]

They should just tell SFL they want division 3, in writing, and start preparing for the season ahead.

Whilst it would be funny if they died they should start over in division 3.

[Keith_M]

This proposed item 2.
2. Members will direct SFL board to play sevco to 3rd division unless SFL can succesfully negotiate sufficient measures allowing them to authorise to play sevco in 1st division.

Meaning the proposed items are so loaded that you can't actually vote for Rangers to go into Div 3 at all - It's Div 1 or not at all.

The cheatin continues - 95% of fans can stick their views up their ass according to Longmuir/Regan/Doncaster.
Longmuir constructed this with the other 2 and is as suspect as they are now.


Not how I read it. They can vote against Item 2. Ergo they are in D3.

CWG, I'd have to disagree.

It appears that the vote is:

1) Put Rangers directly into SFL1

OR

2) Move responsibility back to SFL Board who will then attempt to make a deal with Rangers whereby they get enough 'concessions' and still put them into SFL 1 or don't get enough concessions and put them in SFL3 instead. Thereby making the final decision that of the SFL board.


There is nothing in the options of votes supplied whereby the decision of the clubs is to put NewHun straight into SFL3.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

They should just tell SFL they want division 3, in writing, and start preparing for the season ahead.

Whilst it would be funny if they died they should start over in division 3.


It's like a game of Jet Set Willie with the cheat giving unlimited lives. you keep on dying in the temple of hades but resurrecting. So rangers could in theory keep on dying from outrageous deeds and return To first/third division.

Sorry for the antique game ref kids showIng my age :) you can probably get it online on some retro site tho'.

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18754479

Now is the time to bombard Regan with emails n letters warning him is action might save newco but at what cost...his own job????

If he goes against the fans and SFL clubs and put them to Div 1 I hope he is prepared for the proper armageddon and death of scottish football caused by himself

[Baldy Foghorn]

Now is the time to bombard Regan with emails n letters warning him is action might save newco but at what cost...his own job????

If he goes against the fans and SFL clubs and put them to Div 1 I hope he is prepared for the proper armageddon and death of scottish football caused by himself

Pointless Brando....

Regan, Doncaster and Longmuir, have made us all realise that only Celtic and Rangers matter in the game in Scotland, and us mere mortals, can GTF as far as Scottish Football is concerned.....

[greenginger]

The concessions the SFL want to accept Sevco F C into their top league will have to be agreed and voted on by the SPL Clubs.This has to be another 14 days notice to the Clubs before voting, making a decision day of 27 th July.

When does the SFL season start ?

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG, I'd have to disagree.

It appears that the vote is:

1) Put Rangers directly into SFL1

OR

2) Move responsibility back to SFL Board who will then attempt to make a deal with Rangers whereby they get enough 'concessions' and still put them into SFL 1 or don't get enough concessions and put them in SFL3 instead. Thereby making the final decision that of the SFL board.


There is nothing in the options of votes supplied whereby the decision of the clubs is to put NewHun straight into SFL3.

Not my reading at all. A Yes vote allows the Board to negotiate to put them in D1, failing which they are in D3.

My question is.... what effect does a No vote have?

[Keith_M]

Not my reading at all. A Yes vote allows the Board to negotiate to put them in D1, failing which they are in D3.

My question is.... what effect does a No vote have?


Just to clarify, it's not an either/or vote?

Sorry, that was how it was reported by another poster. What you're saying is that the clubs can vote no to both options?

:dunno:

[alexedwards]

CWG, I'd have to disagree.

It appears that the vote is:

1) Put Rangers directly into SFL1

OR

2) Move responsibility back to SFL Board who will then attempt to make a deal with Rangers whereby they get enough 'concessions' and still put them into SFL 1 or don't get enough concessions and put them in SFL3 instead. Thereby making the final decision that of the SFL board.


There is nothing in the options of votes supplied whereby the decision of the clubs is to put NewHun straight into SFL3.

That is correct it puts the option to the SFL Board negotiating "successful" terms with the SPL - removing repsonsibility from the SFL members.
The wording is also heavily loaded in favour of the second part of item 2 with words succesfully, sufficient, allow, negotiate suggesting this option would be the SUCCESS if it panned out.
Already spoke with Div 2 club director and he said "we're disturbed, but on it but this is going to be where the clash takes place" - the tanks are rolling up on this one - it boils down to a disgraceful, cobbled together piece of nonsense like that - idiots.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just to clarify, it's not an either/or vote?

Sorry, that was how it was reported by another poster. What you're saying is that the clubs can vote no to both options?

:dunno:

Presumably.

It will be "the proposal is...... Now, are you in favour or not?"

Still loaded, I agree, but if the clubs feel sufficiently that they are being railroaded, that could backfire.

[Caversham Green]

I'm with CWG on these votes.

Vote 1 is to admit Sevco into the SFL - yes or no, and if it's no then vote 2 doesn't happen.

Vote 2 is either straight into Div 3 or Div 1 with 'negotiated measures'.

I would assume the 'negotiated measures' are payments/structure concessions from SPL/SFA and if the negotiations are not successful they automatically start in Div 3.

[alexedwards]

I'm with CWG on these votes.

Vote 1 is to admit Sevco into the SFL - yes or no, and if it's no then vote 2 doesn't happen.

Vote 2 is either straight into Div 3 or Div 1 with 'negotiated measures'.

I would assume the 'negotiated measures' are payments/structure concessions from SPL/SFA and if the negotiations are not successful they automatically start in Div 3.


Ok. Let's reverse the statement ; -
2. unless SFL can succesfully negotiate sufficient measures allowing them to authorise to play sevco in 1st division Members will direct SFL board to play sevco to 3rd division.

How does it read now?
Only asking for opinion as not yet convinced myself but it looks like sevco can only play in 3rd if the SFL Board don't successfully negotiate sufficient measures.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok. Let's reverse the statement ; -
2. unless SFL can succesfully negotiate sufficient measures allowing them to authorise to play sevco in 1st division Members will direct SFL board to play sevco to 3rd division.

How does it read now?
Only asking for opinion as not yet convinced myself but it looks like sevco can only play in 3rd if the SFL Board don't successfully negotiate sufficient measures.








Think you're missing the point. They can vote No to the proposal. In which case, they are definitely in D3.

[Waxy]

The fans should act now.
Every fan of every SPL club.
Scottish football is dead if they get put in div1.

We should let our clubs know we wont watch another SPL match if this new club go into div1 from nowhere.

What we want is to resign from the SPL and start our own league association where sporting integrity is NEVER compromised.

Why stay in a league corrupted to the level that Rangers have corrupted this one.

It's really ridiculous what is happening here.

[alexedwards]

Think you're missing the point. They can vote No to the proposal. In which case, they are definitely in D3.


If they vote no to item 1 sevco will not be permitted into the SFL at all.

If they vote yes to item 1 then they vote on item 2.

If they vote no to item 2 they will have to come up with a new proposal for item 2.

If they vote yes to item 2 they allow the SFL Board to negotiate terms with SPL and that would be ongoing - it's the leaving open of this most
crucial question that opens up room for them to slip in the back door.

There is no straight yes or no to Div 1 or Div 3 in item 2 - it is simply not an option the way that question is worded - it's not that simple.

[Heraghty's]

So who decides if the concessions are sufficient?
An SFL board led by Jim "Rangers Fans Fighting Fund badge wearer" Ballantyne.
This is disgusting. Hutton at Raith is correct, Scottish football is corrupt. Utterly corrupt. :sick:

[CropleyWasGod]

If they vote no to item 1 sevco will not be permitted into the SFL at all.

If they vote yes to item 1 then they vote on item 2.

If they vote no to item 2 they will have to come up with a new proposal for item 2.

If they vote yes to item 2 they allow the SFL Board to negotiate terms with SPL and that would be ongoing - it's the leaving open of this most
crucial question that opens up room for them to slip in the back door.

There is no straight yes or no to Div 1 or Div 3 in item 2 - it is simply not an option the way that question is worded - it's not that simple.

I agree that the second item is loaded. However, if they vote Yes in item 1, they are in the SFL. If they vote No in item 2, they are not in D1. By implication, since the SFL rules don't have any other option, they are in D3.

You can bet, though, that those clubs who feel they have been railroaded will be all over this.

One other thing .... what happens if another club wishes to apply for the vacancy?

[grunt]

Thanks to Alex Thomson

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-vote/2201


A senior Football League source has just leaked this to me. Note second section which appears to be a clear attempt to by-pass any vote and shoehorn Rangers Newco into Div 1. Incredible.
You have been warned:

Subject: SFL Special General Meeting – Friday, 13th July, 2012

Dear Sir or Madam,

NOTICE OF SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING – SCOTTISH FOOTBALL LEAGUE
Notice is hereby given that a Special General Meeting of The Scottish Football League will be held within the Bell/Baird Suite on the fifth floor of Hampden Park, Glasgow on Friday, 13th July, 2012 at 11.00 a.m. for the purpose of considering and, if thought fit, approving the following proposals:-

(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.

(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.

(iii) That the Scottish Football League Members in terms of Rule 12 approve the resignation of either Dundee F.C. or Dunfermline Athletic F.C., whichever shall be admitted to join the Scottish Premier League for Season 2012/13, such resignation to take effect as at the date of admission of such club to the Scottish Premier League, notwithstanding that the requisite notice under Rule 12 shall not have been given.Details of the series of measures referred to at (ii) above shall be made available to the Members in advance of the meeting and an opportunity for full discussion of those measures will be given prior to the proposals being put to the meeting.

In accordance with the terms of SFL Rule 53, your club must send one representative to this meeting and I would be most grateful if you could advise me of the name of your representative by return.

A buffet lunch will be served at the conclusion of the meeting.

Kind regards,
David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL

[alexedwards]

I agree that the second item is loaded. However, if they vote Yes in item 1, they are in the SFL. If they vote No in item 2, they are not in D1. By implication, since the SFL rules don't have any other option, they are in D3.

You can bet, though, that those clubs who feel they have been railroaded will be all over this.

One other thing .... what happens if another club wishes to apply for the vacancy?

Perhaps Thommo can explain....................

A senior Football League source has just leaked this to me. Note second section which appears to be a clear attempt to by-pass any vote and shoehorn Rangers Newco into Div 1. Incredible.
You have been warned:
Subject: SFL Special General Meeting – Friday, 13th July, 2012

Dear Sir or Madam,

NOTICE OF SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING – SCOTTISH FOOTBALL LEAGUE
Notice is hereby given that a Special General Meeting of The Scottish Football League will be held within the Bell/Baird Suite on the fifth floor of Hampden Park, Glasgow on Friday, 13th July, 2012 at 11.00 a.m. for the purpose of considering and, if thought fit, approving the following proposals:-
(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.
(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.
(iii) That the Scottish Football League Members in terms of Rule 12 approve the resignation of either Dundee F.C. or Dunfermline Athletic F.C., whichever shall be admitted to join the Scottish Premier League for Season 2012/13, such resignation to take effect as at the date of admission of such club to the Scottish Premier League, notwithstanding that the requisite notice under Rule 12 shall not have been given.Details of the series of measures referred to at (ii) above shall be made available to the Members in advance of the meeting and an opportunity for full discussion of those measures will be given prior to the proposals being put to the meeting.
In accordance with the terms of SFL Rule 53, your club must send one representative to this meeting and I would be most grateful if you could advise me of the name of your representative by return.
A buffet lunch will be served at the conclusion of the meeting.
Kind regards,
David A. Longmuir
Chief Executive, SFL.
Related posts:

[Baba O'riley]

Thanks to Alex Thomson

A buffet lunch will be served at the conclusion of the meeting


If they do decide to let Newco into SFL1, I hope they all choke on their lunch.

I just hope they vote No to question 1, although I have a horrible feeling the SFA will railroad through SPL2 or some other corrupt "solution" instead

[alexedwards]

unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game,
whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football

The letter refers to the SFL Board making the decision and not the Members. So that is Longmuir (for sevco), Ballantyne (gers fan) and goodness knows who else.

[grunt]

If you look up "weasel words" in the dictionary you will find:


... a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.

[joe breezy]

Total corruption

I'm afraid I will never pay to watch any Scottish football product again if this happens, other than the odd Partick Thistle game with my dad

At least Thistle's chairman wasn't involved with Doncaster & co in this whole process. Rod Petrie well done, Wallace Mercer would be proud

[SurferRosa]

unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game,
whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football

The letter refers to the SFL Board making the decision and not the Members. So that is Longmuir (for sevco), Ballantyne (gers fan) and goodness knows who else.


Aye, there`s six of them make up the board but i`ve been all over tinterweb and i cant get any names.....:dunno:

[Onion]

If they vote no to item 1 sevco will not be permitted into the SFL at all.

If they vote yes to item 1 then they vote on item 2.

If they vote no to item 2 they will have to come up with a new proposal for item 2.

If they vote yes to item 2 they allow the SFL Board to negotiate terms with SPL and that would be ongoing - it's the leaving open of this most
crucial question that opens up room for them to slip in the back door.

There is no straight yes or no to Div 1 or Div 3 in item 2 - it is simply not an option the way that question is worded - it's not that simple.

:agree: Well, we all know that's the perfect excuse for the SPL to renege on any previous agreements, for it to drag on for years, while RFC Newco regain their dominant role within 9 months. Once the SFA/SPL have other things to work on, like new voting systems, new distributions, new league structures, all the previous crimes by RFC will be conveniently forgotten.

It is VITAL while we (and the SFL) still have leverage that RFC Newco are dealt with properly NOW. Once they are in Div1, all bets will be off and it will be business and corruption as usual. We will have lost the fight for justice.

[alexedwards]

Aye, there`s six of them make up the board but i`ve been all over tinterweb and i cant get any names.....:dunno:



jim leishman, brechin chairman, godon mc dougall (livi), ballantine, longmuir, dumbarton director, alloa director.
Been advised by div 2 director clubs will make decision.

[grunt]

Gotta love this guy.

alex thomson‏@alextomoPlease don't worry - am onto FIFA and UEFA but these guys, well, they have weekends etc

[CropleyWasGod]

The dynamic of this has not changed. If the Clubs want Sevco in D3, they still have that power.

If anything, it may strengthen the resolve of those who were going to vote No, and convince the waverers to vote No. I am sure that Turnbull Hutton and the Livi guy will be saying their bit in the days to come.

[lapsedhibee]

The Rangers way?

Definitely Rangers way, but too early to say if it's also going to be The Rangers way, what with them only having been going a fortnight or so.

[alexedwards]

Noises slipping through that certain SFL clubs (particularly in SFL1) may vote if "sufficient measures" (16-team league and 1 governing body are introduced)
- SPL will try to shaft them IMHO - don't trust anyone in the SFA/SPL.

[joe breezy]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...

[California-Hibs]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...

Why...? :confused:

[gringojoe]

I'm surprised that none of the major European leagues have offered Sevco (Huns) a place in their top leagues given all the money Sevco bring to the game.

[The Falcon]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...

Never entered my head.

Seems to me folk are looking for reasons not to go and when folk do that they tend to find them.

[sbell1875]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...

I know times are tough just now and the future looks bleak but the majority of the problems have been caused by others elsewhere.

Being a Hibby isn't easy. Never has been and it never will be but please do not turn your back on our club.

[Baba O'riley]

Nope. Although I gave up my season ticket last season, and I didn't make it along to as many games as I'd have liked, I didn't ever think I wouldn't be back at Easter Road. Or Hampden for that matter - I've followed Scotland for ~ 15 years now too, and I'll be asking for a refund on my SSC membership of this corruption does get the go ahead. Part of me thinks that despite how the vote goes on Friday, the game is already well and truly tainted. Totally scunnered just now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The meeting starts at 11:00am and a buffet 'lunch' will be served at the conclusion of the meeting. 11:00am to lunch time to come to one of the biggest decisions in Scottish football history ........ Eh?


As for the rest of it:

As far as I am aware reading what folk have said on this thread ( I myself am no expert on SFL rules ) there is nothing in the SFLs rules to prevent them voting a new team into any one of the SFLs 3 leagues.

In which case ... If the SFL clubs can get a whole bunch of things put into place which will be to the advantage and betterment of all of their members, then why shouldnt they do that. After all, its not their job to punish old Rangers, its their job to decide what to do with new Rangers, with a view to any benefits it may bring to their member clubs.

I agree that such a move would be unprecedented, and probably could be seen as unashamedly taking advantage of the situation to the Nth degree.

But corrupt ........ I dont think so.

[Wotherspiniesta]

What are you talking about Joey?

BTW, I'd NEVER turn my back on Hibs.

[alexedwards]

The meeting starts at 11:00am and a buffet 'lunch' will be served at the conclusion of the meeting. 11:00am to lunch time to come to one of the biggest decisions in Scottish football history ........ Eh?


As for the rest of it:

As far as I am aware reading what folk have said on this thread ( I myself am no expert on SFL rules ) there is nothing in the SFLs rules to prevent them voting a new team into any one of the SFLs 3 leagues.

In which case ... If the SFL clubs can get a whole bunch of things put into place which will be to the advantage and betterment of all of their members, then why shouldnt they do that. After all, its not their job to punish old Rangers, its their job to decide what to do with new Rangers, with a view to any benefits it may bring to their member clubs.

I agree that such a move would be unprecedented, and probably could be seen as unashamedly taking advantage of the situation to the Nth degree.

But corrupt ........ I dont think so.


ok Blackmail.

[The Falcon]

Total corruption

I'm afraid I will never pay to watch any Scottish football product again if this happens, other than the odd Partick Thistle game with my dad

At least Thistle's chairman wasn't involved with Doncaster & co in this whole process. Rod Petrie well done, Wallace Mercer would be proud

Why would Wallace Mercer be proud?

[Halifaxhibby]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...


i'D NEVER TURN MY BACK ON HIBS!!!, YES WERE ***** AT THE MOMENT BUT WE WILL COME AGAIN!!

Your missing the whole point mate, were in this together, strength in numbers, it's my family and a lot of people will agree with me.

As much as i piss and moan on here i'm at as many games as i can and have been since 1982, my dad is still going and has seen the greats,we HAVE TO KEEP OUR PROUD TRADITION GOING AND INSTILL INTO UP AND COMING SUPPORTERS AND SHARE THE TRADITION OF THE CLUB WITH THE NEXT GENERATION, THERE IS A NEW DAWN IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL HAPPENING, THROUGH NO FAULT OF OUR OWN RANGERS HAVE SULLIED THE GAME AND TRY TO NOW BULLY LESSER CLUBS WITH THEIR RHETORIC. IF DUNFERMLINE HAD GONE OUT IN JANUARY AND SIGNED MESSI JUST TO STAY IN THE SPL COULD YOU SAY THEY WERE WORSE THAN RANGERS? NO, AT LEAST THEY HAVE A BIT OF DIGNITY LEFT IN THE CLUB AND KUDOS TO THEM FOR IT.

THE YAMS ARE MERELY A SEASON OR TWO AWAY FROM THE SAME INDIGNATION(AS THERE SUPPORTERS WOULD BELIEVE)AS THE CHEATS FROM THE SOUTHSIDE OF GLASGOW.

HIBERNIAN WILL RISE AGAIN!!!!
WE HAVE A DUTY TO BELIEVE!!!
GGTTH
FTHMFC!!!

[steakbake]

Gotta love this guy.

alex thomson‏@alextomoPlease don't worry - am onto FIFA and UEFA but these guys, well, they have weekends etc

When we fill in the corners, one of them has to be the @alextomo stand.

[Seveno]

Never entered my head.

Seems to me folk are looking for reasons not to go and when folk do that they tend to find them.

Exactly, and reasons without evidence. I get bored with these drama queens.

GGTTH

[NAE NOOKIE]

The wording of your question gives me the impression that your post is aimed at folk who have already made that decision. Could just be the wording though.

There is no doubt that there are people who appear to already have made that decision, or will make it depending on the outcome of the Rangers situation. They have their reasons and though I may not agree with them it is probably best that they follow their conscience and do what they think is best.

I have said on this board a number of times now that I will never take action which would damage Hibs in order to show my anger at a situation which was and is not of the clubs making .... How Hibs, Rod Petrie, the SPL, SFL, SFA or whoever have acted since the SPL vote against the Newco does not lead me to the conclusion that Hibs should cease to exist as a professional football club as a result.

The same goes for Scottish Football. At the end of the day I am going to stick around in the hope that the future for the game can be better, more honest, and fairer. Which, if nothing else, it should be once the dust settles on this fiasco. ... Please Lord let it be soon !!!

Tell you what though:

The one thing I dont want to see when this is all done and dusted is the folk who did jack it in coming onto this board .. or any other medium for that matter ... to tell me what a sucker, idiot, OF apologist or whatever I am for sticking with it.

If you are done with football altogether, or worse have decided to take the ( I am sure difficult sic ) decision to follow the EPL then BE DONE and leave the rest of us to get on with it.


GGTTH

[ScottB]

I can agree with the sentiment, our game has shown itself to be sickeningly corrupt to the core. Many will walk away, and I wouldn't blame a single one for doing so.

What happens on Friday will change things sure, but the journey to this point has been disgusting in the extreme. If come Friday night, and Sevco are happily sat in SFL1, what's the point of it all? Hell even they end up in SFL3, will we ever see real change? Will we ever have any trust in the governing bodies ever again?

The game in Scotland isn't facing death. It's dead. The question is how damaged will it be when it's resuscitated, because despite what fans everywhere want, we aren't going to get the new, fresh start we need.

[The Green Goblin]

Never entered my head.

Seems to me folk are looking for reasons not to go and when folk do that they tend to find them.


Folks don't need to try all that hard to find reasons not to go and see Hibs these days though, do they? And they don't even need "reasons", they can just choose not to go.

In this particular example, I think refusing to support a totally and openly corrupt game that is set up to favour 2 teams at the expense of all the others is one of the more understandable/valid reasons to stop going.

[Iggy Pope]

The way it's looking I will never be going back to a Hibs game...

Sad as I've had a great time made great friends and had a good laugh

Did you ever think you'd have to turn your back on Hibs due to corruption? I didn't...

Naw, but like you said elsewhere you will just have to go and watch Partick Thistle with your dad. The rest of us will just have to get on with it, like we always have.
You might be missed but we'll get over it.

See ya.

[Iggy Pope]

Folks don't need to try all that hard to find reasons not to go and see Hibs these days though, do they? And they don't even need "reasons", they can just choose not to go.

In this particular example, I think refusing to support a totally and openly corrupt game that is set up to favour 2 teams at the expense of all the others is one of the more understandable/valid reasons to stop going.

Is being in Brazil a good enough reason?

[Hibees07]

As far as I was aware the SPL Board represent the SPL member clubs so is it correct to assume any negotiated deal to allow Sevco into the SFL division 1 (as per statement below) would mean that the SPL clubs individually had agreed to the deal.

"The notice of the special general meeting proposes "that Rangers FC shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game... "

If this is the case then why did the 10 SPL clubs bother voting against Sevco in the first place, did they think that the supporters would merely accept a drop of 1 division as an acceptable punishment?.

Why are the SPL Board even involved in these discussions, Sevco are not an SPL club, and why are the SPL having to 'compensate' the SFL if they decide to allow a new club into their leagues. Does this mean that every new club triggers a new set of 'compensation' to the SFL?.

[Seveno]

The wording of your question gives me the impression that your post is aimed at folk who have already made that decision. Could just be the wording though.

There is no doubt that there are people who appear to already have made that decision, or will make it depending on the outcome of the Rangers situation. They have their reasons and though I may not agree with them it is probably best that they follow their conscience and do what they think is best.

I have said on this board a number of times now that I will never take action which would damage Hibs in order to show my anger at a situation which was and is not of the clubs making .... How Hibs, Rod Petrie, the SPL, SFL, SFA or whoever have acted since the SPL vote against the Newco does not lead me to the conclusion that Hibs should cease to exist as a professional football club as a result.

The same goes for Scottish Football. At the end of the day I am going to stick around in the hope that the future for the game can be better, more honest, and fairer. Which, if nothing else, it should be once the dust settles on this fiasco. ... Please Lord let it be soon !!!

Tell you what though:

The one thing I dont want to see when this is all done and dusted is the folk who did jack it in coming onto this board .. or any other medium for that matter ... to tell me what a sucker, idiot, OF apologist or whatever I am for sticking with it.

If you are done with football altogether, or worse have decided to take the ( I am sure difficult sic ) decision to follow the EPL then BE DONE and leave the rest of us to get on with it.


GGTTH

Great post, Bovril. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Why are the SPL Board even involved in these discussions, Sevco are not an SPL club, and why are the SPL having to 'compensate' the SFL if they decide to allow a new club into their leagues. Does this mean that every new club triggers a new set of 'compensation' to the SFL?.

As I understand it, the SPL pay a "settlement fee" as part of the deal which allowed them to leave the SFL in the first place.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I can agree with the sentiment, our game has shown itself to be sickeningly corrupt to the core. Many will walk away, and I wouldn't blame a single one for doing so.

What happens on Friday will change things sure, but the journey to this point has been disgusting in the extreme. If come Friday night, and Sevco are happily sat in SFL1, what's the point of it all? Hell even they end up in SFL3, will we ever see real change? Will we ever have any trust in the governing bodies ever again?

The game in Scotland isn't facing death. It's dead. The question is how damaged will it be when it's resuscitated, because despite what fans everywhere want, we aren't going to get the new, fresh start we need.

Sorry to state the obvious mate ... you cant resuscitate something that is dead.

As for the rest of that paragraph I presume what you mean is we wont get the new fresh start you think we need.

Things which appear be on the table now as a result of what has happened:

A fair voting system in the SPL which will prevent any two clubs, or even one club, ever being able to dictate to the others again.

A much more equitable sharing out of the money coming into the game, from TV or elsewhere.

A future change to the league systems, which may well lead to a bigger SPL and play offs for promotion and relegation.

A much needed change of mindset in the game which will lead every club to the realisation that putting all of your eggs into one basket is the stupidest way to run a business you can get, and hopefully will lead to a lot of clubs deciding that the way forward is to rip themselves away from the old firm teat.

At the start of last season all of that stuff was a pipe dream ... the fact that its taken this mess to bring it about is unfortunate, but to pass up the opportunities it has presented would just be a bloody waste of a golden chance.

[The Green Goblin]

Is being in Brazil a good enough reason?


That's a crappy, pathetic comment and you know it. You have no idea at all of the extent to which I have supported Hibs during my life, or how I continue to do so, even from Brazil. I could lower myself to justify it to you, but there's plenty of folks on here who know and I am going to choose to show a bit more grace than you have done and refrain from making you look like a complete idiot.

[The Falcon]

Folks don't need to try all that hard to find reasons not to go and see Hibs these days though, do they? And they don't even need "reasons", they can just choose not to go.

In this particular example, I think refusing to support a totally and openly corrupt game that is set up to favour 2 teams at the expense of all the others is one of the more understandable/valid reasons to stop going.

Or any other era since the early seventies GG but i am sure someone will be along to tell us this is as bad as it's been. I have no problem if folk dont want to go.

But it is now at the point where the same folk keep finding different reasons not to go.

[Saorsa]

Never entered my head.

Seems to me folk are looking for reasons not to go and when folk do that they tend to find them.What is it with folk like you and others that makes you think people need a reason no tae go tae the fitba? They dinnae! They just dinnae have tae go, it isnae compulsory and they dinnae have tae justify themselves tae the uber fans on here. I've been going tae ER for 34 years, if I wanted tae stop going I would have done it long before now. I've never let my dislike of Petrie stop me going tae the ER and supporting Hibs, I've been going tae ER road longer than he's been involved with Hibs. I've never let my disdain for the people that run Scottish fitba stop me going tae ER. With this though they have stepped way over the line of what I am prepared tae put up with. If this team end up in the 1st division football in this country will cease tae be a sport as far as I'm concerned and will be shown up for what it is, a corrupt money making racket and I'll no be puting my money in tae anything that lines the pockets of twisted *******s like regan and doncaster.

[Bishop Hibee]

Getting back to sevco, they could be in big trouble regardless of whatever league they manage to get into:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/sevco-director-admits-rangers-assets-bought-at-undervalue-liquidator-should-take-assets-back/#more-1460

More murky than a July day in Edinburgh :greengrin

[PatHead]

What part of "Sporting integrity is more important than money" do these administrators not understand? Are they trying to kill the game

[The Green Goblin]

Or any other era since the early seventies GG but i am sure someone will be along to tell us this is as bad as it's been. I have no problem if folk dont want to go.

But it is now at the point where the same folk keep finding different reasons not to go.


My point was that I think there are people who genuinely have a problem with the apparent corruption which has been very much evident during this whole sorry saga, and that their choice not to go to the football because of that may therefore be considered a valid one, as opposed to more flimsy, transient reasons. I was neither supporting or criticising that decision, just stating that it was a genuine, but hard choice for some folks.

The other people you mention in your second sentence, well...I agree with you. But that's a different thing entirely.

[ScottB]

[/B]Sorry to state the obvious mate ... you cant resuscitate something that is dead.

As for the rest of that paragraph I presume what you mean is we wont get the new fresh start you think we need.

Things which appear be on the table now as a result of what has happened:

A fair voting system in the SPL which will prevent any two clubs, or even one club, ever being able to dictate to the others again.

A much more equitable sharing out of the money coming into the game, from TV or elsewhere.

A future change to the league systems, which may well lead to a bigger SPL and play offs for promotion and relegation.

A much needed change of mindset in the game which will lead every club to the realisation that putting all of your eggs into one basket is the stupidest way to run a business you can get, and hopefully will lead to a lot of clubs deciding that the way forward is to rip themselves away from the old firm teat.

At the start of last season all of that stuff was a pipe dream ... the fact that its taken this mess to bring it about is unfortunate, but to pass up the opportunities it has presented would just be a bloody waste of a golden chance.

Yes you can. The person heart has stopped, they are technically dead, it may be restarted. Our game is dead. Either we start again, or try and breathe life into the current one, and hope it isn't too 'brain damaged' to function. I have my doubts.

Why will any of those things happen then?


This would appear to all be happening because the SPL are convinced they can only go one season without Rangers and their money, and are willing to offer trinkets to the SFL to make it happen. With that in mind, why would they then try and go about things that will weaken Rangers, clearly that doesn't make 'business sense' to our clubs. They aren't going to change things, they aren't going to go to a bigger league, they are going to sit there and patiently wait a season for the circus to begin again.

As others have pointed out, the SPL Board can't run around doing things without the clubs say so, it IS the clubs. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but a lovely 16 / 18 team league with fair shares of income and sporting integrity intact is, if anything, further away than ever as far as I'm concerned. At most the SFL will get their play off place into the SPL, then at some point the leagues will get a name change, the suits will rearrange their deck chairs and the Titanic will carry on towards the iceberg...

[Seveno]

Or any other era since the early seventies GG but i am sure someone will be along to tell us this is as bad as it's been. I have no problem if folk dont want to go.

But it is now at the point where the same folk keep finding different reasons not to go.


What is it with folk like you and others that makes you think people need a reason no tae go tae the fitba? They dinnae! They just dinnae have tae go, it isnae compulsory and they dinnae have tae justify themselves tae the uber fans on here. I've been going tae ER for 34 years, if I wanted tae stop going I would have done it long before now. I've never let my dislike of Petrie stop me going tae the ER and supporting Hibs, I've been going tae ER road longer than he's been involved with Hibs. I've never let my disdain for the people that run Scottish fitba stop me going tae ER. With this though they have stepped way over the line of what I am prepared tae put up with. If this team end up in the 1st division football in this country will cease tae be a sport as far as I'm concerned and will be shown up for what it is, a corrupt money making racket and I'll no be puting my money in tae anything that lines the pockets of twisted *******s like regan and doncaster.

What's this, Dan ? You don't like Petrie ? You kept that one quiet.:wink:

[Iggy Pope]

That's a crappy, pathetic comment and you know it. You have no idea at all of the extent to which I have supported Hibs during my life, or how I continue to do so, even from Brazil. I could lower myself to justify it to you, but there's plenty of folks on here who know and I am going to choose to show a bit more grace than you have done and refrain from making you look like a complete idiot.

It was more of a question than a comment (hence the ?) and an answer would have been more appropraite than you throwing your weight about. Equally, you know nothing of me, however, it would seem my committment is clear and yours less so given the geography and your apparent position on the current topic. Imagine the downfall of Rangers being the ruin of Hibs? Even from your detached position that must seem farcical?

[The Falcon]

What is it with folk like you and others that makes you think people need a reason no tae go tae the fitba? They dinnae! They just dinnae have tae go, it isnae compulsory and they dinnae have tae justify themselves tae the uber fans on here. I've been going tae ER for 34 years, if I wanted tae stop going I would have done it long before now. I've never let my dislike of Petrie stop me going tae the ER and supporting Hibs, I've been going tae ER road longer than he's been involved with Hibs. I've never let my disdain for the people that run Scottish fitba stop me going tae ER. With this though they have stepped way over the line of what I am prepared tae put up with. If this team end up in the 1st division football in this country will cease tae be a sport as far as I'm concerned and will be shown up for what it is, a corrupt money making racket and I'll no be puting my money in tae anything that lines the pockets of twisted *******s like regan and doncaster.


If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.

As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.

[Hibercelona]

Naw, but like you said elsewhere you will just have to go and watch Partick Thistle with your dad. The rest of us will just have to get on with it, like we always have.
You might be missed but we'll get over it.

See ya.

It's because people are willing to "just get on with it", that things will never change.

People get so used to being shafted that they eventually just accept it as the natural order of things.

It's very sad.

[calmac12000]

Its kinda hard to retain any enthusiasm for Scottish football, when those seem determined to give their supporters a metaphorical kick in the testicles
It just seem to be true that the powers that be are totally unable and unwilling to grasp the simple nature of most ordinary supporters objections to their endless contortions to ensure Rangers are not forced to, as any other club in a similar position would surely have to do, i.e. to begin their existence in the bottom tier of Scottish professional football.
Despise, the many obfuscations put forward in the media the reason for this is that quite simply that it is not fair.
In any sport, even n one so sullied by rank commercialism it is vital, in order to retain the support of the paying masses that the rules are straightforwardly devised and applied without fear or favour.
If this concept which is so central to the success of any professional sport cannot be grasped by those in charge then that sport will rightly die.
This stripped bare of all the smoke and mirrors is the stark choice facing every chairman of a Scottish club, for the vast majority of their so-called customer have made theirs.

[Keith_M]

Perhaps Thommo can explain....................

A senior Football League source has just leaked this to me. Note second section which appears to be a clear attempt to by-pass any vote and shoehorn Rangers Newco into Div 1. Incredible.
You have been warned:
Subject: SFL Special General Meeting – Friday, 13th July, 2012

Dear Sir or Madam,

....blah.....

(i) That the Scottish Football League Members agree to admit Sevco Scotland Limited as an Associate Member and agrees to permit Rangers F.C. to play in the League during Season 2012/13.
(ii) That the Scottish Football League Members direct the Board of Management of The Scottish Football League (the “Board”) to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13 unless the Board shall have to its satisfaction negotiated and reached agreement with The Scottish Premier League and The Scottish Football Association on a series of measures which the Board shall consider to be in the best interests of the game, how it is structured, how it is governed and how it is financed, whereupon the Board shall be authorised to provide that Rangers F.C. shall play in the First Division of the Scottish Football League during Season 2012/13.
....blah....
David A. Longmuir




OK, I revert back to my previous view that the SFL clubs are being given NO specific vote on Friday to vote NewHun directly into the 3rd Division. This is an all or nothing vote of allowing NewHun to take up 'associate' membership and leave it to the SFL board as to what division they will be playing in.


If the clubs say NO, there would have to be yet another proposal put to them, if at all, that states they are voting NewHun into the 3rd division. It"s obvious by the proposal details that the SFL board are doing their utmost to avoid giving the clubs such an option, so I'd consider it highly unlikely that they'll come up with any such straightforward proposal in the near future. I'd imagine they"ll just keep coming up with similar proposals whereby the board are the ones that decide on which division NewHun are put in.

[Iggy Pope]

It's because people are willing to "just get on with it", that things will never change.

People get so used to being shafted that they eventually just accept it as the natural order of things.

It's very sad.

Principles are one thing. Turning your back on your club when they are in the doo-doo is another.

[Hibercelona]

If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.

As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.

They aren't "Rangers". I wish people would stop referring to them as such.

"Sevco 5088" are a "new company", that need to earn their right to play in the league.

They are NOT Rangers.

[Saorsa]

If I felt that strongly I wouldnt go either. But I dont believe they will end up in the first division. It will be the third and even then they are getting off lightly.

As far as I am aware they (rangers) have so far got nothing they wanted.and if that 'new club' are in the 3rd division I will be at ER next season. Hopefully there will be enough of those at the lower leagues will be capable of doing the right thing because those at the top have proven they clearly are not.

After that I'd like tae see Scottish fitba rid itself of these people (parasites) who have little interest in the good of the game (starting with regan and dungcaster) and only what they can make out of it.