Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Chic Murray]

The Founder, a film about McDonalds, starring Michael Keaton is good viewing if you want to see how seemingly watertight contracts can be broken.

[Ozyhibby]

The Founder, a film about McDonalds, starring Michael Keaton is good viewing if you want to see how seemingly watertight contracts can be broken.

That is a great movie.


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[Tynie01011973]

What was the deal worth in the 1st place to The Rangers


JJ suggesting that TRIFC would get 20% of all Elite receipts

https://johnjamessite.com/

TRFCL wrote to SDIR on the 12th July in accordance with the aforementioned clause. In this missive there was an offer from Elite which SDIR matched. This offer was one in which ‘Rangers’ would receive 20% of all Elite receipts.

[Moulin Yarns]

JJ suggesting that TRIFC would get 20% of all Elite receipts

https://johnjamessite.com/

TRFCL wrote to SDIR on the 12th July in accordance with the aforementioned clause. In this missive there was an offer from Elite which SDIR matched. This offer was one in which ‘Rangers’ would receive 20% of all Elite receipts.

12th July??? They can't help themselves.

[Smartie]

12th July??? They can't help themselves.

Decent day to send something contentious to Ibrox, as I can't imagine it will be a hive of activity on that day, people being otherwise engaged.

[Rumble de Thump]

Rangers were 48 hours from going into administration until a £2m loan was agreed with Mike Ashley, according to one senior Ibrox source. (as per a BBC news story from 2014).

And this is how the club's management repay him. Without his money The Rangers would likely have gone the same was as Rangers.

[Chic Murray]

That is a great movie.


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I'm sure Croc and King would be kindred spirits.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/4787c344f9da414d1c756c120ecd6d3e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/bb2a0c26090fc105ac6fca9f94cc238d.jpg

The Wetherspoons parody account can be quite funny at times.[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3416205/rangers-set-to-sue-sports-direct-as-dave-king-seeks-to-recover-long-outstanding-payments/

Dave King good to go again with Ashley. God loves a trier.[emoji23]


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[Tomsk]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3416205/rangers-set-to-sue-sports-direct-as-dave-king-seeks-to-recover-long-outstanding-payments/

Dave King good to go again with Ashley. God loves a trier.[emoji23]


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The Glasgow Giants ... :blah:

[hibees 7062]

https://scontent.fltn2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45000621_2354417758115608_333343729081384960_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fltn2-1.fna&oh=b72c33c9cedc468619317a4147a9d47b&oe=5C4D2846

[wearehibernian]

“We hope Rangers will now move on" is definitely the most unrealistic statement in that article... :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

14.3 million loss for the year announced on radio Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

14.3 million loss for the year announced on radio Scotland.

https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-annual-results-4/

Sevco laughing at Uefa FFP rules.


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-international-football-club-annual-results-4/

Sevco laughing at Uefa FFP rules.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIn FFP terms, they're much better off than they have been for a long time. The latest Share issue has strengthened their Balance Sheet by about 1/3.

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[Ozyhibby]

In FFP terms, they're much better off than they have been for a long time. The latest Share issue has strengthened their Balance Sheet by about 1/3.

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But losses are still over the supposedly £5m losses over three years allowed.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Happy Halloween

https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45111363_10217464360750949_7297706501752225792_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr3-2.fna&oh=f31bd0127deedc1337b213f884dd6d16&oe=5C3F6760

[Ozyhibby]

“material uncertainty relating to going concern
we draw your attention to note 1 to the financial statements concerning the group’s ability to continue as a going concern. in order to continue operations for the next 12 months the group is dependent upon raising additional finance to cover the projected shortfall of £4.6m in season 2018/19 and a further £3.0m in season 2019/20. such amounts are inherently dependent on a number of key variables, including the achievement of forecast football performance and player trading. should certain inputs to the cash flow not be achieved as forecast, the projected shortfall could be materially higher than that detailed above. failure to secure additional funding would result in the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt as to the group’s ability to continue as a going concern. the financial statements do not include the adjustments that would result if the group was unable to continue as a going concern. our opinion is not modified in respect of this matter.”

They need a further £4.6m in January to finish the season.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Ozy, I haven't seen the full report yet. Where are you getting January from?

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[ancient hibee]

In FFP terms, they're much better off than they have been for a long time. The latest Share issue has strengthened their Balance Sheet by about 1/3.

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I must be slipping because I didn't realise they'd had another share issue.What is clear is that they need to increase revenue by 20% to get it on par with current operational expenses.

[Ozyhibby]

Ozy, I haven't seen the full report yet. Where are you getting January from?

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This post on SFM.

https://www.sfm.scot/stevie-g-the-real-deal/#comment-21437


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[Ozyhibby]

I must be slipping because I didn't realise they'd had another share issue.What is clear is that they need to increase revenue by 20% to get it on par with current operational expenses.

The share issue only raised £1.5m in extra cash. It converted £11m in loans into equity which may help them with FFP rules.


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[CropleyWasGod]

This post on SFM.

https://www.sfm.scot/stevie-g-the-real-deal/#comment-21437


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOk thanks.

I'm reading that slightly differently. They need £4.6m this season, of which the first tranche is due in January. No clues as to how much that tranche is.

They also talk about budgeting for player sales. I'm guessing that the additional money is over and above that. Who do they have that can be sold, and who else would they have to sell?

On the share issue, I read it the same way. But I'm also wondering how much of the £1.5m was taken up in costs. Stevie G got very little of the warchest, that's for sure.

All will be fine, though, if they get to the next stages of the EL [emoji849]



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[CropleyWasGod]

I must be slipping because I didn't realise they'd had another share issue.What is clear is that they need to increase revenue by 20% to get it on par with current operational expenses.The share issue was barely reported.

Like Ozy says, it hardly raised any new cash. It just got the soft lenders in deeper. (You can define "soft" any way you like... )

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[JeMeSouviens]

They've hiked their wage bill to £15M!

No excuses for Stevie. :wink:

[HoboHarry]

If they posted this loss for the year, what are their total debts at this point? Or is that even a valid question?

[Ozyhibby]

If they posted this loss for the year, what are their total debts at this point? Or is that even a valid question?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/e8c2c11389027b9e908afd22de1f60ea.jpg

Their debt is higher than the rest of Scottish football combined.

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[CMac1988]

...

That's a beautiful upward trend (or downward). Long live the line graph of death.

[Hibs4185]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/e8c2c11389027b9e908afd22de1f60ea.jpg

Their debt is higher than the rest of Scottish football combined.

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As much I love to think of their demise coming shortly (again), very little of their debt is external I think? It would therefore require directors to initiate an administration event and can’t see them doing that. Close brothers could’ve but I believe they’ve been repaid.

These directors who give them soft loans and then convert them to equity which is more or less worthless must be off their heads.

[ballengeich]

The importance of their Europa league success is hard to over-state. Compared to last season they've had seven (at least) home games compared with one. Match day receipts plus UEFA prize money will make a difference of around £1 million per home game to the profit/loss position.

The question about the £4.6 million needed to get through the season is the basis on which this was estimated. If it doesn't include the extra European income then the Europa income covers it and they're fine for the season. If it's needed even after that extra money has come in then the underlying business model is horrific.

[Ozyhibby]

The importance of their Europa league success is hard to over-state. Compared to last season they've had seven (at least) home games compared with one. Match day receipts plus UEFA prize money will make a difference of around £1 million per home game to the profit/loss position.

The question about the £4.6 million needed to get through the season is the basis on which this was estimated. If it doesn't include the extra European income then the Europa income covers it and they're fine for the season. If it's needed even after that extra money has come in then the underlying business model is horrific.

They were only prepared on 17th Oct so I would think they would know what Europa income they were bringing in?
What they would not have known at that time was that they would lose the case v Ashley and have to pay £400k in costs as well as damages still to be awarded. Not sure how much time you get to pay such things.


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[HoboHarry]

CWG will probably have comments on this - Phil Macs Rugger Guy gives his take on the accounts....

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/11/01/a-review-of-rangers-international-football-club-accounts-for-year-ended-30-june-2018/

[CropleyWasGod]

The importance of their Europa league success is hard to over-state. Compared to last season they've had seven (at least) home games compared with one. Match day receipts plus UEFA prize money will make a difference of around £1 million per home game to the profit/loss position.

The question about the £4.6 million needed to get through the season is the basis on which this was estimated. If it doesn't include the extra European income then the Europa income covers it and they're fine for the season. If it's needed even after that extra money has come in then the underlying business model is horrific.

It will include the current EL income. The audit report talks about the "next 12 months".ie from the date of its signing.

That is why qualifying for the next EL stage is crucial for this season.

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG will probably have comments on this - Phil Macs Rugger Guy gives his take on the accounts....

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/11/01/a-review-of-rangers-international-football-club-accounts-for-year-ended-30-june-2018/

Not a lot to argue with, TBF.

Given the whole "material uncertainty" bit, you can understand why they chose to release them last night, when there were games on.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the mental fans last night were Loyal plants, just to take the attention away from Govan. :rolleyes:

(some of this is my contribution to the raft of wild posts we've been seeing recently).

[Ozyhibby]

As much I love to think of their demise coming shortly (again), very little of their debt is external I think? It would therefore require directors to initiate an administration event and can’t see them doing that. Close brothers could’ve but I believe they’ve been repaid.

These directors who give them soft loans and then convert them to equity which is more or less worthless must be off their heads.

I would think all the debt that is going to be converted to equity would have been done in Aug at their share offer?
£7m of the £21m they are in debt is due to other clubs for players they already have.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/c47c5a9dddccdfc10923b63f59e980ac.jpg

Looks like a fair bit of their debt is external if I read that right?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemeehallwood/2018/11/01/steven-gerrards-rangers-announce-14m-loss-as-they-were-playing-a-match/#4e141b676a8b



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[beensaidbefore]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemeehallwood/2018/11/01/steven-gerrards-rangers-announce-14m-loss-as-they-were-playing-a-match/#4e141b676a8b



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Good read. Thanks

[jacomo]

Good read. Thanks


:agree:

Great article, refreshingly free of the Rangers spin.

Bottom line: Sevco is still hemmoraging cash and reliant on goodwill of its directors and outside investment to pay the bills.

That’s not a sustainable position for any business.

[Ozyhibby]

http://priceoffootball.com/rangers-automatic-for-the-people/



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[brog]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemeehallwood/2018/11/01/steven-gerrards-rangers-announce-14m-loss-as-they-were-playing-a-match/#4e141b676a8b



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It's a bit unfortunate that he doesn't know Jumbo Traynor hasn't been The Rangers director of communications for the last 5 years. That apart, it's a decent article.

[Oscar T Grouch]

They were only prepared on 17th Oct so I would think they would know what Europa income they were bringing in?
What they would not have known at that time was that they would lose the case v Ashley and have to pay £400k in costs as well as damages still to be awarded. Not sure how much time you get to pay such things.


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From experience, if all lines of appeal are concluded you have 28 days from the date of final judgement to pay in full all costs.

[JeMeSouviens]

It's a bit unfortunate that he doesn't know Jumbo Traynor hasn't been The Rangers director of communications for the last 5 years. That apart, it's a decent article.

de facto he has. Everything goes through his Level 5 PR agency.

[brog]

de facto he has. Everything goes through his Level 5 PR agency.

I know that but it's obvious the author of the piece doesn't. IIRC there was also a hiatus of a year or so between Jumbo' s resignation & his founding Level 5. PS, don't upset him by calling them an agency. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

http://priceoffootball.com/rangers-automatic-for-the-people/



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Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. :greengrin

A very fine exam-style appraisal of the accounts, yet no mention of the short-term funding issues.

I quote "it would appear that further funds will be needed to keep the club competitive."

Substitute the word "competitive" with "trading" and he might get a better mark.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-and-the-fight-against-financial-fairplay-a-1236347-amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

This is up there with old Rangers. Players paid by a separate company.


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[Smartie]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-and-the-fight-against-financial-fairplay-a-1236347-amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

This is up there with old Rangers. Players paid by a separate company.


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Is it just me, or is there a familiar name in there when it comes to football clubs and dodgy dealings?

A very familiar name, and one that is particularly close to home.

[Ozyhibby]

Is it just me, or is there a familiar name in there when it comes to football clubs and dodgy dealings?

A very familiar name, and one that is particularly close to home.

He should have been banned from football but the SFA only do that if they perceive you to have wronged their club Rangers.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/1059723979496263680?s=21

Worth a read on Sevco and SPFL finances in general.


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[Gloucester Hibs]

Is it just me, or is there a familiar name in there when it comes to football clubs and dodgy dealings?

A very familiar name, and one that is particularly close to home.

David “Spotty” Rowland

[CropleyWasGod]

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/1059723979496263680?s=21

Worth a read on Sevco and SPFL finances in general.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkStill ignores the elephant in the room of the £4m additional funding needed during this season.

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[HoboHarry]

Still ignores the elephant in the room of the £4m additional funding needed during this season.

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Phil Mac is saying that they are heading south today in search of more loans.....

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/11/06/ground-hog-day-and-the-joy-of-meeting-your-characters/

[CropleyWasGod]

Phil Mac is saying that they are heading south today in search of more loans.....

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/11/06/ground-hog-day-and-the-joy-of-meeting-your-characters/I stopped reading at the word "today" and did a wee dance.

But you went and spoiled it [emoji2955]

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[HoboHarry]

I stopped reading at the word "today" and did a wee dance.

But you went and spoiled it [emoji2955]

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Sorry mate :greengrin. On the positive side they will only get themselves deeper in hock.......

[Ozyhibby]

Their options for getting hold of cash must be very slim now.


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[Oscar T Grouch]

Still ignores the elephant in the room of the £4m additional funding needed during this season.

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Sort of covers that in the comments aided by a question from a celtc fan. 😉

[CropleyWasGod]

Sort of covers that in the comments aided by a question from a celtc fan. 😉

Cheers. I missed that. I tend not to read the comments on these things, as it usually descends into a melee based on what team you support....:rolleyes:

[Ronniekirk]

:agree:

Great article, refreshingly free of the Rangers spin.

Bottom line: Sevco is still hemmoraging cash and reliant on goodwill of its directors and outside investment to pay the bills.

That’s not a sustainable position for any business.
They have managed to get away with it though and the Goodwill remains Do t underestimate the cash the European venture has and continues to generate Still in with a chance of progressing out the Group Stages
I expect Gerrard will be backed again in the next Transfer Window to give him the Zayers needed to Finish second
So I would imagine the loss will start to lessen going forward unless they fail to get to Group Stages next Season

[CropleyWasGod]

They have managed to get away with it though and the Goodwill remains Do t underestimate the cash the European venture has and continues to generate Still in with a chance of progressing out the Group Stages
I expect Gerrard will be backed again in the next Transfer Window to give him the Zayers needed to Finish second
So I would imagine the loss will start to lessen going forward unless they fail to get to Group Stages next Season

The £4m they need to finish the season is over and above the money they get from the EL groups. Whether their forecasts include money from the next stage, we can't know.

Their forecasts will also, I'm sure, include a budget for spending in January. That may well be cut if they don't get the £4m.

[Hibs4185]

I don’t buy into conspiracy theories very often but I do wonder why little old Scotland is one of the only nations not to adopt FFP.

Could it be that a certain club would not meet them?

I can’t understand why Scotland is too good for FFP.

[Ronniekirk]

The £4m they need to finish the season is over and above the money they get from the EL groups. Whether their forecasts include money from the next stage, we can't know.

Their forecasts will also, I'm sure, include a budget for spending in January. That may well be cut if they don't get the £4m.

I hear what your saying but I know one of the three Bears and its pin money Rangers Fanatic since he was a kid The Goodwill will continue from that source for a few Seasons yet So would be surprised if that was to dry up now
Given whete they have. been they can see light at the end of the long tunnel I would suspect

[CropleyWasGod]

I don’t buy into conspiracy theories very often but I do wonder why little old Scotland is one of the only nations not to adopt FFP.

Could it be that a certain club would not meet them?

I can’t understand why Scotland is too good for FFP.

I'm not sure the Premier League has anything more than what Scotland has. https://www.premierleague.com/news/102374

Man City have got into bother with UEFA, not the FA.

[Billy Whizz]

The £4m they need to finish the season is over and above the money they get from the EL groups. Whether their forecasts include money from the next stage, we can't know.

Their forecasts will also, I'm sure, include a budget for spending in January. That may well be cut if they don't get the £4m.

So do you expect a few players will be sold in January to bridge the gap?
Think only Morelos and Tavernier would raise any sort of decent fee

I read that they are trying to get 2 of their expensive Mexicans off the wage bill in January, I’d forgotten all about Herrera and Pena. Think both are on big wages as well, allegedly around £25k per week

[Ozyhibby]

It’s been a while since any of the 3 Bears put in money?


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[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure the Premier League has anything more than what Scotland has. https://www.premierleague.com/news/102374

Man City have got into bother with UEFA, not the FA.

The football Leaugue has some pretty strict rules for the championship though.
It will be interesting to see if these payments the Man City players were receiving were registered with the FA and if that is even an issue in England?


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[CropleyWasGod]

The football Leaugue has some pretty strict rules for the championship though.
It will be interesting to see if these payments the Man City players were receiving were registered with the FA and if that is even an issue in England?


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This is telling, in a hand-washing sort of way...

Outside of these obligations it is up to individual clubs, who all have their own directors and senior executives, to make decisions over how they spend their income.

[CropleyWasGod]

So do you expect a few players will be sold in January to bridge the gap?
Think only Morelos and Tavernier would raise any sort of decent fee

I read that they are trying to get 2 of their expensive Mexicans off the wage bill in January, I’d forgotten all about Herrera and Pena. Think both are on big wages as well, allegedly around £25k per week

I'm guessing, of course, but the forecasts will already include assumptions about income from selling players in January. Those assumptions might be overstated, but equally so.... if someone offers them £2m more than they've budgeted for, then that's half of the shortfall gone.

If they can't do that, then yes, it will be the player budget that will be the obvious place to look at to save cash.

Edit. Just looked at the accounts again, and the word "quantum" has made a comeback. :greengrin

[Treadstone]

Sevco pressing the gas on the statement race.

[lapsedhibee]

Sevco pressing the gas on the statement race.

This, presumably. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46142606)

[ballengeich]

Sevco pressing the gas on the statement race.

They knew the appeal would fail, but it's served its purpose. The statement has the same purpose as one by Trump. It raises supporters' level of anger against their perceived enemies so that they'll continue to hand over their cash and won't take any kind of rational look at reality.

If all they'd wanted to do was highlight the potential for injustice in the current rules all they'd have done was announce the intention to propose an amendment to procedure at the next league or SFA agm.

[CropleyWasGod]

This, presumably. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46142606)

I'm guessing they appealled on "mistaken identity" grounds, on the basis that Collum was mistakenly identified as a referee.

[Joe6-2]

I'm guessing they appealled on "mistaken identity" grounds, on the basis that Collum was mistakenly identified as a referee.

😂😂

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh105.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Another court loss for King today. [emoji23]


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[Alan62]

In terms of time-wasting, Dave King makes Craig Gordon look like Speedy Gonzalez. On speed. And in a hurry.

[Ozyhibby]

https://stv.tv/amp/1432849-judge-rejects-king-bid-to-stop-contempt-proceedings/?__twitter_impression=true


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[Jack Hackett]

https://stv.tv/amp/1432849-judge-rejects-king-bid-to-stop-contempt-proceedings/?__twitter_impression=true


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So that leaves him, where? From that piece I get that it was an appeal about whether or not another judge could decide if he was in contempt of court. Will there be instant punishment without any further hearing if the judge decides he is contemptable, or a trial?

[Billy Whizz]

https://stv.tv/amp/1432849-judge-rejects-king-bid-to-stop-contempt-proceedings/?__twitter_impression=true


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Has he not bought these shares yet?

[JeMeSouviens]

So that leaves him, where? From that piece I get that it was an appeal about whether or not another judge could decide if he was in contempt of court. Will there be instant punishment without any further hearing if the judge decides he is contemptable, or a trial?

He was trying to stop a contempt hearing already scheduled for the end of the month. It goes ahead ...

[Jack Hackett]

He was trying to stop a contempt hearing already scheduled for the end of the month. It goes ahead ...

Got it now...






:partyhibb

[blackpoolhibs]

I remember the days when the only real fiddle football chairmen would have, was crowd scamming. :greengrin


Christ if they just got on with paying their way properly, their lawyers bills would dwarf most SPFL clubs income alone. :rolleyes:

[Pescarese]

I remember the days when the only real fiddle football chairmen would have, was crowd scamming. :greengrin


Christ if they just got on with paying their way properly, their lawyers bills would dwarf most SPFL clubs income alone. :rolleyes:

For someone who claims he’s skint, King is certainly racking up some amount of legal costs.

The hearing at the end of the month looks ominous for him. I don’t see how the footballing authorities can ignore him being found in contempt, which is looking likely. “Fit and proper” chairmen do what the law requires them to do.

[Ronniekirk]

For someone who claims he’s skint, King is certainly racking up some amount of legal costs.

The hearing at the end of the month looks ominous for him. I don’t see how the footballing authorities can ignore him being found in contempt, which is looking likely. “Fit and proper” chairmen do what the law requires them to do.

When it comes to King the Whole Fit and Proper definition defies Belief But he carries on regardless as the Football Authorities have Sold their Soul bending over backwards to assists him and courting The Rangers back to the Top Table
The no money line is laughable , but it's no joke that this just drags on and on The sooner he is held to account the better

[PatHead]

Am I correct in thinking that the SFA set the criteria, the club declares the person to be fit and proper? They then tell the SFA that they have found the person fit and proper.

What could possibly go wrong?

[oldbutdim]

Am I correct in thinking that the SFA set the criteria, the club declares the person to be fit and proper? They then tell the SFA that they have found the person fit and proper.

What could possibly go wrong?

You're spot on.

The club simply gives that assurance.
:top marks

[lapsedhibee]

Am I correct in thinking that the SFA set the criteria, the club declares the person to be fit and proper? They then tell the SFA that they have found the person fit and proper.

What could possibly go wrong?

Don't know what you mean. Not that different from self-certifying mortgage applications a decade ago, and that worked out fine.

[PatHead]

Don't know what you mean. Not that different from self-certifying mortgage applications a decade ago, and that worked out fine.

😂

[Pescarese]

Am I correct in thinking that the SFA set the criteria, the club declares the person to be fit and proper? They then tell the SFA that they have found the person fit and proper.

What could possibly go wrong?

You are correct. But the club has to report a change in circumstances, based on a list of stuff, and a Court of Session contempt finding is reportable. If the club fails to report, they’re in trouble too.

[Stonewall]

You are correct. But the club has to report a change in circumstances, based on a list of stuff, and a Court of Session contempt finding is reportable. If the club fails to report, they’re in trouble too.

After all that’s happened you really think so?

[silverhibee]

Formal complaint made to the SFA regarding Collum by the the Rangers.

[Ozyhibby]

King lost again in court today. He is now liable for the takeover panels legal fees as well. And they are higher than normal due to the complexity of the case apparently. Shame.


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[HoboHarry]

King lost again in court today. He is now liable for the takeover panels legal fees as well. And they are higher than normal due to the complexity of the case apparently. Shame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Who will pay the fees? King or Sevco?

[CropleyWasGod]

Who will pay the fees? King or Sevco?

Should be him.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-ordered-13600313.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true


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[HoboHarry]

Should be him.
Oh I know that it should be but I'd be willing to bet you a nice bottle of South African wine (not one of those that were removed by the courts from King by the way) that King doesn't pay......

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh I know that it should be but I'd be willing to bet you a nice bottle of South African wine (not one of those that were removed by the courts from King by the way) that King doesn't pay......

There are tax consequences for the club if they do pay it.

Alternatively, it may be knocked off the amount that the club currently owe him.

[HoboHarry]

There are tax consequences for the club if they do pay it.

Alternatively, it may be knocked off the amount that the club currently owe him.
Didn't take my bet then? Feartie......

[CropleyWasGod]

Didn't take my bet then? Feartie......

...picks splinters out of bum...

No thanks, I'm fine on this fence.... :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

...picks splinters out of bum...

No thanks, I'm fine on this fence.... :greengrin
In all seriousness, I'd love to know how much Sir Glibness has paid out of his own pocket for all of these legal cases? I'll bet it wouldn't amount to a nice bottle of South African wine........

[PatHead]

Why are the courts chasing King rather than the other bears?

[Smartie]

In all seriousness, I'd love to know how much Sir Glibness has paid out of his own pocket for all of these legal cases? I'll bet it wouldn't amount to a nice bottle of South African wine........

I bet it wouldn't amount to rancid bottle of South African pish.

[Tynie01011973]

Why are the courts chasing King rather than the other bears?

Was it not that King bought shares that took the overall holding over the 30% limit despite George Letham's EMail warning him of the consequences?

Therefore he is the one being chased?

[PatHead]

Was it not that King bought shares that took the overall holding over the 30% limit despite George Letham's EMail warning him of the consequences?

Therefore he is the one being chased?

Ah, wondered why.

Thanks for answering.

[Antifa Hibs]

"No laps of honour if you pump the huns cos they can't take it" - Police Scotland Chief

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-rangers-face-lap-honour-13644875

[Bostonhibby]

"No laps of honour if you pump the huns cos they can't take it" - Police Scotland Chief

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-rangers-face-lap-honour-13644875Only way to suppress the exposure of the uglies natural response to a defeat.

Wonder how they'll manage to spin the huns exuberance should they ever actually win anything and end up on the pitch celebrating as only they can.

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[Smartie]

It would be quite refreshing if someone from the police were to come out and state that Rangers fans should take a bit of responsibility and behave themselves.

For a change.

If it's not Neil Lennon bringing it on himself, it is one of various different types of goading.

[Bostonhibby]

It would be quite refreshing if someone from the police were to come out and state that Rangers fans should take a bit of responsibility and behave themselves.

For a change.

If it's not Neil Lennon bringing it on himself, it is one of various different types of goading.Agree but can you imagine being the first one to openly comment on it?

Blackballed at the lodge, blanked or victimised in the work place, standing in the street on your own on match days while all your colleagues are in ibrox watching their team.

And that's before all the huns find out where you live[emoji6]

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[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46359606

Seems all is well in the big house

[Ronniekirk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46359606

Seems all is well in the big house

14 Million in Debt was Reported on T V They are doing. better on the field than was anticipated
I wonder what Lennon could do if he was allowed to spend that type of money Just seems that the figures now get overlooked They are. back do no one wants to upset the Hoardes

[jacomo]

"No laps of honour if you pump the huns cos they can't take it" - Police Scotland Chief

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-rangers-face-lap-honour-13644875


All the problems in Scotland right there

Violent bigotry and senior copper makes wrong call so blames someone else.

[PatHead]

How can the glib and shameless one claim at the AGM that he is giving loans but tell the court he is skint?

[Jack Hackett]

How can the glib and shameless one claim at the AGM that he is giving loans but tell the court he is skint?


:hmmm:




Is it because he's glib and shameless?

[Keith_M]

How can the glib and shameless one claim at the AGM that he is giving loans but tell the court he is skint?


Maybe he's only skint cause of all the loans.

[Ozyhibby]

Dave King in court today on contempt charges. Will be interesting to see where this ends for the takeover panel. Their reputation is very much on the line today.


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[Bostonhibby]

Maybe he's only skint cause of all the loans.He probably should just owe it all to himself, this form of debt conversion is seen as a quick solution to the hard of thinking and enables them to carry on as if there's nothing wrong.

Owning a bank is another panacea.

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[Ozyhibby]

From SFM site:-


Looks like we will have a full house at the CoS this morning. King and Blair are here. Photographers lurking outside. JC is currently engaged in a conversation with Chris McLaughlin of the BBC.




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[CropleyWasGod]

From SFM site:-


Looks like we will have a full house at the CoS this morning. King and Blair are here. Photographers lurking outside. JC is currently engaged in a conversation with Chris McLaughlin of the BBC.




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJohn Collins?
Jason Cummings?
Jesus Christ?
****ing Clarkson?

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[lapsedhibee]

John Collins?
Jason Cummings?
Jesus Christ?


It's Jaffa Cake, a colleague of Biscuits'.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's Jaffa Cake, a colleague of Biscuits'.Is he a cake, or a meringue?

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[Tynie01011973]

John Collins?
Jason Cummings?
Jesus Christ?
****ing Clarkson?

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Is it not John Clark? He is one of the Celtic Res 12 guys

[HoboHarry]

Is he a cake, or a meringue?

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Neither, he's a biscuit as well.....

21432

[JXM73]

Is he a cake, or a meringue?

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Naw yer right, its a cake

[CropleyWasGod]

Naw yer right, its a cakeThank you, Lex McLean [emoji23]

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[lapsedhibee]

Is he a cake, or a meringue?


You are. The people have spoken, 55% to 45%. (https://metro.co.uk/2015/05/25/jaffa-cakes-are-not-cakes-10-reasons-why-the-jaffa-is-a-biscuit-5194703/)

[Newry Hibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46359606

Seems all is well in the big house

Slightly controversial comment from Gerrard ....

Gerrard paid tribute to the support he has received from King, managing director Stewart Robertson and director of football Mark Allen since his arrival.

"I feel I'm in such a blessed position to be here as manager," he added. "I hope I stay here for a very long time and we share some really good times together."

[Famous Fiver]

Any sign of Mr T to put a spin on things?

[Ozyhibby]

A few snippets from this morning's proceedings

A slip of the tongue from King's QC – he mentioned shares in the "club" and quickly corrected himself to the "company".

Lady Wolffe, when referring to tweeting noted that Lord Hodge had allowed it when dealing with the insolvency of Rangers no. 1.

King is expected to go into the witness box later. It appears that King's side is putting up a defence using "men's rea" in that King's understanding of what he was told was different from TOPs so he didn't know what he was doing /not doing was wrong.

TOP appears to have accepted that the new shares will be included in any offer. That will make it unlikely that King will reach the 50% threshold required to make the offer unconditional.

TOP has received inquiries from several shareholders who wish to sell though.

——————-

From SFM site.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/regions/glasgow-strathclyde/rangers-chairman-dave-king-nannied-by-watchdogs-court-hears-1-4836688/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[JeMeSouviens]

A few snippets from this morning's proceedings

A slip of the tongue from King's QC – he mentioned shares in the "club" and quickly corrected himself to the "company".

Lady Wolffe, when referring to tweeting noted that Lord Hodge had allowed it when dealing with the insolvency of Rangers no. 1.

King is expected to go into the witness box later. It appears that King's side is putting up a defence using "men's rea" in that King's understanding of what he was told was different from TOPs so he didn't know what he was doing /not doing was wrong.

TOP appears to have accepted that the new shares will be included in any offer. That will make it unlikely that King will reach the 50% threshold required to make the offer unconditional.

TOP has received inquiries from several shareholders who wish to sell though.

——————-

From SFM site.


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mens rea - no apostrophe, it's latin for "guilty mind".

[oldbutdim]

mens rea - no apostrophe, it's latin for "guilty mind".

Bonus vir semper tiro.

:thumbsup:

[Famous Fiver]

What's the Latin for 'The Ba's on the Slates'?

[CropleyWasGod]

What's the Latin for 'The Ba's on the Slates'?

Datsit fuctus.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug/status/1068187292974686209?s=19

King takes the stand tomorrow

[Ozyhibby]

From SFM again.

————————-

Today's Court of Session proceedings were relatively dull, compared to what I might have expected. That was down to all the witnesses having submitted affidavits beforehand, then questioned, first by Dr David Johnston QC for TOP, then cross examined (at length) by Jonathan Mitchell QC for King. The public doesn't get to see the affidavits, so we are limited to the bits and pieces discussed in court.

Johnston limited himself to a few questions to each of the witnesses, just to highlight a few key points, then it was Mitchell's turn. He did his usual and talked a lot about not very much, boring the pants of everyone.

The first of the witnesses, Christopher Jillings, one of three Deputy Director Generals of the Takeover Panel, was the lead person on the King case, so he was party to most of the correspondence and calls that went between King and the TOP.

He knew the code inside out, and on the odd occasion the Mitchell drew his attention to a provision of the Takeover Code, he was was quick to respond, telling Mitchell that he was not reading it properly, e.g. Mitchell referred to the code only applying to listed companies, but Jillings quickly retorted that Rangers was listed at the time of the Concert Party acquisitions, and in any event, if he read the next point he would see that the code applies for 10 years after delisting anyway.

Jillings had a comprehensive record of all the emails that had bounced back and forth and appeared to have been consistent throughout. At one point he confirmed that if King had complied, then the contempt proceedings would most likely have been halted.

The second witness, Jeremy Evans, an Assistant Director General, had taken over the case when Jillings was on holiday, but his expertise appeared to be in relation to the role of "Cash Confirmer" (the person/company who confirms that they hold access to the funds needed to satisfy an offer, preferably in an accredited UK financial institution. King has never had a financial advisor far less a Cash Confirmer, which is the essence of the issue that has allowed King to prevaricate for so long.

The third "expert" witness was Kevin Cron, an attorney from South Africa who has the best part of 40 years experience in exchange controls. It turns out that King, through Laird made an application to clear funds on 6 August, but he then requested that the application be suspended later in the month, prior to the share placing. Cron advised that the level of Laird's application, ZAR 188m, meant that an authorised dealer could approve the transfer of funds to the UK. If the request was for more than ZAR 1bn, then it would have to go to the SA Treasury. Cron thought that Laird's application, was lacking in detail, so may have prompted some questions from Investec, the authorised dealer, but should have been approved within a couple of weeks. Had it gone to the treasury, then it could take up to six weeks for a decision. He also commented that the application didn't need to have a tax compliance statement as the transaction was being carried by for a company rather than an individual.

On completion of the TOP submissions, there was some discussion about tomorrow's witnesses, i.e. King and Blair only. There was a concern about two other affidavits submitted from King's side, as there was no opportunity for the witnesses to be cross examined on their content, if they weren't going to be called. In that case, Lady Wolffe indicated that she would have to consider the weight she gave to their statements.

Mitchell went on to confirm that King had written his statement himself, and described that as "good" as it reflected his state of mind at the appropriate times. (the "mens rea" defence again)

Proceedings resume at 10am tomorrow.

Note: I spoke to a couple of the TOP guys after the court adjourned and asked about the effects of the share placing. They confirmed that it was allowed by Takeover Code with certain restrictions, but they couldn't do anything about the position of the smaller shareholders who wished to sell, and might have been able to do so prior to the share placing, but may not get the chance if the 50% threshold is not met to make the offer unconditional, because of the enlarged share base.

King appears to have a number of irrevocable undertakings from the placees (and Club 1872) confirming that they won't take up the offer. If King can get 50% of the 66% non concert party shares mandated in that way, then he won't have to make an offer at all. I suspect that he is still shy of that mark but it won't stop him making the point tomorrow.

Edit: It was the TOP who recommended to King that he obtained the undertakings, as it would reduce the amount of cash that he has to provide up front when he finally makes an offer.


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[Famous Fiver]

Thanks Ozy.

Might have to get more popcorn in with the weekend's shopping by the sound of things.

[jacomo]

FFS no one is obliged to become a director of a company are they? If you do decide to become a company director (particularly the chairman of a company) you are expected to know the rules.

King is playing the legal system for fools. Just find him in contempt of court already and get one with the next stage.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181130/0a0757d948e6bfff4f1a385b7b1edb8f.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181130/1f7e88acdecf1a6a5b9198b3ba6c0a63.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

Following the break King has provided the court with an undertaking which will be published on the RFC website by 3rd Dec.

A cash confiirmer to be appointed by 14 Dec.

11 Jan for the cleared funds to be in place in the UK.

25th Jan for the offer to be made.

Appoint a legal advisor familiar with the Takeover code by 14 Dec.

The undertaking is not opposed by TOP.

Lady Wolffe is not minded to discharge the action and will continue the proof until 4 February with King ordained to attend if it goes ahead.

A check will be made on progress by 29 Jan. in a "by order" hearing. If all is in hand by then the proof will be discharged.

Lady Wolffe addressed King directly and made it clear that he will be obliged to attend in February.




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[HoboHarry]

Following the break King has provided the court with an undertaking which will be published on the RFC website by 3rd Dec.

A cash confiirmer to be appointed by 14 Dec.

11 Jan for the cleared funds to be in place in the UK.

25th Jan for the offer to be made.

Appoint a legal advisor familiar with the Takeover code by 14 Dec.

The undertaking is not opposed by TOP.

Lady Wolffe is not minded to discharge the action and will continue the proof until 4 February with King ordained to attend if it goes ahead.

A check will be made on progress by 29 Jan. in a "by order" hearing. If all is in hand by then the proof will be discharged.

Lady Wolffe addressed King directly and made it clear that he will be obliged to attend in February.




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Now it's really time to sit back with a bucket of popcorn lol.......

[Keith_M]

Following the break King has provided the court with an undertaking which will be published on the RFC website by 3rd Dec.

A cash confiirmer to be appointed by 14 Dec.

11 Jan for the cleared funds to be in place in the UK.

25th Jan for the offer to be made.

Appoint a legal advisor familiar with the Takeover code by 14 Dec.

The undertaking is not opposed by TOP.

Lady Wolffe is not minded to discharge the action and will continue the proof until 4 February with King ordained to attend if it goes ahead.

A check will be made on progress by 29 Jan. in a "by order" hearing. If all is in hand by then the proof will be discharged.

Lady Wolffe addressed King directly and made it clear that he will be obliged to attend in February.




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Sorry but didn't he basically say all that before and didn't go through with it?


He's just stringing them along, again.

[HoboHarry]

Sorry but didn't he basically say all that before and didn't go through with it?


He's just stringing them along, again.
Yes but he has been ordained to appear in front of Lady Wolffe on February 4th if he has not followed through this time. Others will know far more than me but that suggests that Her Ladyship will be a tad irate if he has strung her along. Seems clear to me that the judiciary is out of patience with Sir Glibness.....

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish

Wonder who the 4 are

[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish

Wonder who the 4 are

It doesn't matter. It's bull****, designed to take the light off him. He would still have to make the offer, no matter what. And, presumably, reported his suspicions to the authorities. :rolleyes:

[Oscar T Grouch]

So King says in court Easdale won't take up the offer, yet Easdale has said he has given no such assurances. Lying in court? Isn't that perjury?

[Ozyhibby]

So King says in court Easdale won't take up the offer, yet Easdale has said he has given no such assurances. Lying in court? Isn't that perjury?

Perjury is no big deal. It happens in almost every court case.


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[CropleyWasGod]

So King says in court Easdale won't take up the offer, yet Easdale has said he has given no such assurances. Lying in court? Isn't that perjury?

Easdale wasn't in Court, though. :greengrin

[Smartie]

So King says in court Easdale won't take up the offer, yet Easdale has said he has given no such assurances. Lying in court? Isn't that perjury?

In a world where Dave King, Donald Trump and Boris' bus seem to be able to achieve great things, I have absolutely no idea what the penalties for dishonesty anywhere are any more.

Funny how there seems to be something very much in common between those who really behind these three.

[HoboHarry]

So King says in court Easdale won't take up the offer, yet Easdale has said he has given no such assurances. Lying in court? Isn't that perjury?

Would be hard to prove he lied, he would claim it was a misunderstanding....

[HoboHarry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish

Wonder who the 4 are

Throwing his business associates under the bus there then. That'll go down well lol ....

[Ronniekirk]

Sorry but didn't he basically say all that before and didn't go through with it?


He's just stringing them along, again.

But this time it's a Lady calling the shots She won't take any of his ****

[weecounty hibby]

I'm surprised that only four have links to crime!!

[Billy Whizz]

I'm surprised that only four have links to crime!!

Are these from Charles Green’s time as chairman? Must admit I’d forgotten about him, how could I😀

[CropleyWasGod]

Throwing his business associates under the bus there then. That'll go down well lol ....Will he go down with the fishes?

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[Famous Fiver]

Just a thought.

Might have to stockpile on the old popcorn to make sure I don't run out after Brexit because this saga has got a bit to run yet.

[HoboHarry]

Will he go down with the fishes?

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A Kingfisher so to speak?

[CropleyWasGod]

A Kingfisher so to speak?[emoji16]

An ex-kingfisher

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[Eyrie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish

Wonder who the 4 are

The only one that I can think of has been convicted of fraud in South Africa.

Who are the other three?

[HoboHarry]

[emoji16]

An ex-kingfisher

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He'll be casting his net far and wide trawling for financial help..... 😁

[brog]

The only one that I can think of has been convicted of fraud in South Africa.

Who are the other three?

He doesn't know. He was told by Lee Wallace! ☺

[Bostonhibby]

The only one that I can think of has been convicted of fraud in South Africa.

Who are the other three?To be fair, he's highlighting organised criminals here and all the evidence from South Africa and what he's done at sevco since suggests he's anything but an organised criminal.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17269785.new-row-over-rangers-chairmans-failure-to-make-court-ordered-shares-bid/


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[Billy Whizz]

Looks like he’s had to this, re point 7
https://media.rangers.co.uk/uploads/2018/12/20181130-King-Undertaking.pdf

[lapsedhibee]

Europa League Supporter in trouble here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46458861

[CentreLine]

Europa League Supporter in trouble here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46458861

Would be nice to see them pulled up for the sectarian songs too. The full songbook was given an airing and Uefa have the clout to do something about it.

[HoboHarry]

So did Sir Glibness get a "Cash Confirmer" appointed yesterday?

[HoboHarry]

Come on Ozzy/CWG - gie's some insight into what will happen if the Cash Confirmer isn't in place......:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Come on Ozzy/CWG - gie's some insight into what will happen if the Cash Confirmer isn't in place......:greengrin

Dunno, mate. Sounds a bit Wonga-ish to me :greengrin

Presumably, though, as part of the Court undertaking, if he doesn't do it he's off to the Big Hoose.

[HoboHarry]

Dunno, mate. Sounds a bit Wonga-ish to me :greengrin

Presumably, though, as part of the Court undertaking, if he doesn't do it he's off to the Big Hoose.
Not much for prayer personally but seeing that bam sent to the big hoose would be worth the effort......

[Keith_M]

Not much for prayer personally but seeing that bam sent to the big hoose would be worth the effort......


What a wonderful Christmas Present that would be


:greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

Not much for prayer personally but seeing that bam sent to the big hoose would be worth the effort......

It must stay open!!

[Billy Whizz]

Latest news on King

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47002304

[HoboHarry]

Latest news on King

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47002304
CWG will know far better than me but it doesn't address the other undertakings he had agreed to like having the actual cash transferred to the UK etc etc. I'm not sure that simply making an offer completely fulfills the agreement he made in Lady Wolffe's courtroom?

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG will know far better than me but it doesn't address the other undertakings he had agreed to like having the actual cash transferred to the UK etc etc. I'm not sure that simply making an offer completely fulfills the agreement he made in Lady Wolffe's courtroom?

We don't (and, at this stage, can't) know if that has been done. The offer, though, has been made as ordered.

[HoboHarry]

We don't (and, at this stage, can't) know if that has been done. The offer, though, has been made as ordered.
I get that - but if no money has been given to a cash confirmer (isn't that what was supposed to happen?) then who is going to believe it? I doubt that King would worry too much about putting out a written document full of make believe....

[CropleyWasGod]

I get that - but if no money has been given to a cash confirmer (isn't that what was supposed to happen?) then who is going to believe it? I doubt that King would worry too much about putting out a written document full of make believe....

I'm not clued up on whether that had to be made public.

As for your second sentence.... man, you're so cynical. :greengrin

[Smartie]

Seeing this thread return to the top of the board is like seeing your stunning ex stride into the pub, wink at you and raise your hopes that you're going to get it on again.

CWG commenting on it is like when her toothless Jambo boyfriend/brother walks in and starts snogging her.

[CropleyWasGod]

Seeing this thread return to the top of the board is like seeing your stunning ex stride into the pub, wink at you and raise your hopes that you're going to get it on again.

CWG commenting on it is like when her toothless Jambo boyfriend/brother walks in and starts snogging her.

Man that hurts.



But, yeah, she rocks...... :cb

[HoboHarry]

Seeing this thread return to the top of the board is like seeing your stunning ex stride into the pub, wink at you and raise your hopes that you're going to get it on again.

CWG commenting on it is like when her toothless Jambo boyfriend/brother walks in and starts snogging her.
:not worth :top marks

[Lendo]

Christ, not seen this thread in a while.

[Moulin Yarns]

Putting this out there to cheer people up.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17386364.rangers-director-warns-loss-making-club-cannot-run-on-loans-indefinitely/

[Joe6-2]

Putting this out there to cheer people up.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17386364.rangers-director-warns-loss-making-club-cannot-run-on-loans-indefinitely/

👍

[CentreLine]

Putting this out there to cheer people up.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17386364.rangers-director-warns-loss-making-club-cannot-run-on-loans-indefinitely/

First let me apologise, my first rather lengthy reply was posted under the “report post” option by accident. 😖

Anyway, I seem to recall CWG, or perhaps Ozzy, saying an essential part of any bid was a prospectus that laid bare the financial state of the club. Surely this can’t be it?

[Moulin Yarns]

First let me apologise, my first rather lengthy reply was posted under the “report post” option by accident. 😖

Anyway, I seem to recall CWG, or perhaps Ozzy, saying an essential part of any bid was a prospectus that laid bare the financial state of the club. Surely this can’t be it?

butter fingers :thumbsup:I always wanted a lifetime ban :wink:

[CentreLine]

butter fingers :thumbsup:I always wanted a lifetime ban :wink:

😳it’s been a long night. Thanks for understanding, I hope the lifetime ban is lifted soon 😂

[Just Alf]

Seeing this thread return to the top of the board is like seeing your stunning ex stride into the pub, wink at you and raise your hopes that you're going to get it on again.

CWG commenting on it is like when her toothless Jambo boyfriend/brother walks in and starts snogging her.Ha ha!... That painted a picture!

I can almost feel your deep dissapointment!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Brunswickbill]

I wonder if HMRC's chase of EBT users includes the beneficiaries of the former Rangers FC. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/16/thousands-of-workers-hit-with-massive-tax-avoidance-bills

[Keith_M]

I see King has played a blinder in respect to the Forced Shares Purchase from the Takeover Panel.

He's managed to delay the Offer long enough to manipulate the percentage of acceptances as being below the minimum required, therefore he doesn't have to buy anybody else's shares.

Dodgy Dave wins again.

[jacomo]

I see King has played a blinder in respect to the Forced Shares Purchase from the Takeover Panel.

He's managed to delay the Offer long enough to manipulate the percentage of acceptances as being below the minimum required, therefore he doesn't have to buy anybody else's shares.

Dodgy Dave wins again.


The Takeover Panel seem to live in a world where gentlemen still wear bowler hats and being snubbed by the club secretary counts as a severe sanction.

[Keith_M]

The Takeover Panel seem to live in a world where gentlemen still wear bowler hats and being snubbed by the club secretary counts as a severe sanction.

:agree:


They're well out of touch and quite obviously easily manipulated by a shyster like King.

[ballengeich]

The Takeover Panel seem to live in a world where gentlemen still wear bowler hats and being snubbed by the club secretary counts as a severe sanction.

I think it's more that the "cold shoulder" threat which involves the withdrawal of UK financial facilities doesn't work against someone whose main business is outside the UK. King's South African base and delaying tactics have shown that there's loopholes in the legislation. I'd expect the TOP to be looking to parliament for an amendment.

If King had made the offer when he should have before recent share placements then he would have had to buy furhter shares. We'll wait to see if the next hearing on his contempt case has anything to say about this. I've also read a suggestion that shareholders who've lost out might be able to take civil action against King, but there's no legal precedent for the situation so who knows.

[greenginger]

I see King has played a blinder in respect to the Forced Shares Purchase from the Takeover Panel.

He's managed to delay the Offer long enough to manipulate the percentage of acceptances as being below the minimum required, therefore he doesn't have to buy anybody else's shares.

Dodgy Dave wins again.


I never understood the reasoning behind the ruling that there had to be a minimum % of take up of the offer to make it happen.

I would have thought if only one share holder had felt he had lost out to King and his associates as a result of their rule breaking they would have been entitled to have their shares bought by the consortium.

If the rules had been adhered to every minority shareholder would have been given the offer to dispose of their shares.

[Deansy]

Rangers 'abhor' sectarianism, says chairman Dave Kinghttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47335407

"We will continue to do everything we can at our club to root sectarianism out and to deal in the strongest manner possible with any individuals that are found to have engaged in such practices," :faf:


Just cleaned a mouthful of coffee from my screen - no doubt some media-phanny will point to this 'statement' in the near future when defending King/Huns at their next disgrace !

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They actually make scarves depicting such filth. They aren't normal; it's lunacy.

[brog]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a classic! I did shake my head at the DR trotting him out as the epitome of brotherly love considering his history. IIRC he was part of the gang who persuaded poor, befuddled Gazza to simulate playing the flute.

[James310]

Rangers 'abhor' sectarianism, says chairman Dave Kinghttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47335407

"We will continue to do everything we can at our club to root sectarianism out and to deal in the strongest manner possible with any individuals that are found to have engaged in such practices," :faf:


Just cleaned a mouthful of coffee from my screen - no doubt some media-phanny will point to this 'statement' in the near future when defending King/Huns at their next disgrace !

The same club chairman who is happy to sell Rangers away strips with a deliberate sash across them and an orange third strip.

[jacomo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


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Is it because you’re bringing them up with the old hateful ‘traditions’ Barry?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190224/1755d8d3379bef46ca76742f5786a9ee.jpg
The other scarf Barry is wearing.


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[Springbank]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*PHONE RINGS*

"hello, Daily Record Offices how can I help?"

"are you the picture editor?"

"Yes I am"

"well on behalf of all the decent people in Scotland, tell your boss we think you deserve a payrise..."

[Bostonhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/f3dc10263014361472b358f34469bb09.jpg
Barry’s point gets a little bit lost when his young son is wearing a scarf that says ‘stick your rosaries up your arse’.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe's never been the smartest. Very thick planks of wood get together to tell Barry Ferguson jokes.

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[007]

*PHONE RINGS*

"hello, Daily Record Offices how can I help?"

"are you the picture editor?"

"Yes I am"

"well on behalf of all the decent people in Scotland, tell your boss we think you deserve a payrise..."

I do wonder if the person who chose that photo to go with the article is a Celtic fan who knew exactly what they were doing.

[Crab apple]

That's a classic! I did shake my head at the DR trotting him out as the epitome of brotherly love considering his history. IIRC he was part of the gang who persuaded poor, befuddled Gazza to simulate playing the flute.

Not to mention his role in the battle of Bothwell bridge.

[HoboHarry]

Phil Mac saying that Sevco have arranged another "overdraft" I thought they just recorded a 6 month profit? (Yes I know..........:greengrin)

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2019/02/28/my-quiet-week/

[JeMeSouviens]

Phil Mac saying that Sevco have arranged another "overdraft" I thought they just recorded a 6 month profit? (Yes I know..........:greengrin)

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2019/02/28/my-quiet-week/

His previous blog compares Rodgers to an IRA informer. Ok, Phil ...

[HoboHarry]

His previous blog compares Rodgers to an IRA informer. Ok, Phil ...
Regardless of personal opinions of him, there is a document on the blog? Kind of alarming for Sevco if they are having to take out more loans no?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Don't know whether the new overdraft is correct, but aren't they currently 25 million in debt? They are desperate to stop Celtic getting ten-in-a-row and are gambling on spending big to stop it. I'm sure this will end well....:rolleyes:

[Jack Hackett]

Has anyone actually totted up how much they've sp****d since their formation in 2012?

[Topographic Hibby]

Has anyone actually totted up how much they've sp****d since their formation in 2012?Has anyone actually totted up how many times Phil Mac Four Names, that annoying John James money grabber or any other tedious blogger has predicted the imminent demise of that terrible club.

Last time I checked, they were knocking in goals and packing out their hate-filled stadium.

These bloggers are nearly as odious and self opinionated as the MSM they claim to have replaced.

[HoboHarry]

Appears that the Takeover Panel may be back in court on Friday chasing Sir Glib and Shameless? Here's hoping that Lady Wolffe is in the foulest of foul moods......

https://johnjamessite.com/2019/02/28/the-panel-turn-their-guns-on-the-two-bob-crook-from-south-africa/#comments

[CropleyWasGod]

Appears that the Takeover Panel may be back in court on Friday chasing Sir Glib and Shameless? Here's hoping that Lady Wolffe is in the foulest of foul moods......

https://johnjamessite.com/2019/02/28/the-panel-turn-their-guns-on-the-two-bob-crook-from-south-africa/#comments

It may be that the Court just need proof that the procedure has been properly carried out.

[HoboHarry]

It may be that the Court just need proof that the procedure has been properly carried out.
Good God man - can you let me enjoy a nights sleep dreaming happy thoughts about Sevco being in the s***e just once? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Good God man - can you let me enjoy a nights sleep dreaming happy thoughts about Sevco being in the s***e just once? :greengrin

I charge for wet dream services 😂

[HoboHarry]

I charge for wet dream services 😂
To f*****n scared to sleep at all now with that image in my head. If the wife cuddles in she'll get launched oot of the bed....... womenfolk and cats flying everywhere......

[grunt]

It may be that the Court just need proof that the procedure has been properly carried out.

Do people need to go to court to do that?

[Jack Hackett]

Do people need to go to court to do that?

I think in the glib and shameless liar's case, it would be a prudent move.

[JeMeSouviens]

Regardless of personal opinions of him, there is a document on the blog? Kind of alarming for Sevco if they are having to take out more loans no?

Yes, they have racked up unsustainable debt. Mostly soft loans from Huns (chiefly directors). It seems these have dried up somewhat.

[Treadstone]

His previous blog compares Rodgers to an IRA informer. Ok, Phil ...

Seen that. Hilarious. Also horseshoeing in how his granny is more republican than anyone else's.

[Ozyhibby]

Has anyone actually totted up how many times Phil Mac Four Names, that annoying John James money grabber or any other tedious blogger has predicted the imminent demise of that terrible club.

Last time I checked, they were knocking in goals and packing out their hate-filled stadium.

These bloggers are nearly as odious and self opinionated as the MSM they claim to have replaced.

Last time a club from Ibrox went bust the had just won 3 titles in a row, were knocking in goals and packing their stadium. Most clubs who go bust do so after a period of relative success. It’s because they are overspending to achieve that success.


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[Topographic Hibby]

Last time a club from Ibrox went bust the had just won 3 titles in a row, were knocking in goals and packing their stadium. Most clubs who go bust do so after a period of relative success. It’s because they are overspending to achieve that success.
I’ll concede that point, and add in defrauding Hector on an industrial scale. :aok:

[HoboHarry]

Last time a club from Ibrox went bust the had just won 3 titles in a row, were knocking in goals and packing their stadium. Most clubs who go bust do so after a period of relative success. It’s because they are overspending to achieve that success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Weren't they trying to sign a player even as they were entering admin? Can't remember who it was but I seem to recall that it was stopped by the SFA....

Edit - Daniel Cousin?

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

Has anyone actually totted up how many times Phil Mac Four Names, that annoying John James money grabber or any other tedious blogger has predicted the imminent demise of that terrible club.

Last time I checked, they were knocking in goals and packing out their hate-filled stadium.

These bloggers are nearly as odious and self opinionated as the MSM they claim to have replaced.

These “ odious “ bloggers are generally the only source of researched information. They don’t get everything right but this week have provided copies of TRFC’s application for finance from Close Brothers where other sources simply regurgitate their unaudited accounts showing a £5 million profit.
Don’t forget it took the South African authorities 13 years to bring King to justice.
No point in shooting the messenger.
JJ produced a copy of the Takeover Panel papers taking King back to court today, you won’t find that anywhere else. Don’t know what the outcome will be, can only hope.

[HoboHarry]

These “ odious “ bloggers are generally the only source of researched information. They don’t get everything right but this week have provided copies of TRFC’s application for finance from Close Brothers where other sources simply regurgitate their unaudited accounts showing a £5 million profit.
Don’t forget it took the South African authorities 13 years to bring King to justice.
No point in shooting the messenger.
JJ produced a copy of the Takeover Panel papers taking King back to court today, you won’t find that anywhere else. Don’t know what the outcome will be, can only hope.
Well said mate :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

These “ odious “ bloggers are generally the only source of researched information. They don’t get everything right but this week have provided copies of TRFC’s application for finance from Close Brothers where other sources simply regurgitate their unaudited accounts showing a £5 million profit.
Don’t forget it took the South African authorities 13 years to bring King to justice.
No point in shooting the messenger.
JJ produced a copy of the Takeover Panel papers taking King back to court today, you won’t find that anywhere else. Don’t know what the outcome will be, can only hope.

"Odious" ? :confused:

[Mantis Toboggan]

"Odious" ? :confused:

JJ does come across pretty badly, what with the constant demands for donations, and recent comments about Leanne Dempster that were at the very least bordering on homophobia (which he has previous for)

[HoboHarry]

JJ does come across pretty badly, what with the constant demands for donations, and recent comments about Leanne Dempster that were at the very least bordering on homophobia (which he has previous for)
It's a real pity in my opinion. He started off as a breath of fresh air but eventually descended into just saying stuff for shock value and then seems to genuinely wonder why other blogs are more popular than his. He doesn't seem to be able to discuss anything currently other than freemasonary at the SFA and John Beaton et al being bent. JJ will eventually just fade away in my opinion......

[Ozyhibby]

It's a real pity in my opinion. He started off as a breath of fresh air but eventually descended into just saying stuff for shock value and then seems to genuinely wonder why other blogs are more popular than his. He doesn't seem to be able to discuss anything currently other than freemasonary at the SFA and John Beaton et al being bent. JJ will eventually just fade away in my opinion......

That’s why rangerstaxcase.com remains out on his own in terms of successful blogs. He only posted a blog if he had something to say.
He was also ignored by the MSM but his blog was the only source of information on an obvious fraud. Shame the game was so corrupt that even when it all came out the other clubs gave them a free pass.


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[Topographic Hibby]

"Odious" ? :confused:Read some of the things JJ has said about Hibs, LD and RP. Don’t get me started on Phil either. I said it and stand by it.

[lapsedhibee]

JJ does come across pretty badly, what with the constant demands for donations, and recent comments about Leanne Dempster that were at the very least bordering on homophobia (which he has previous for)


Read some of the things JJ has said about Hibs, LD and RP. Don’t get me started on Phil either. I said it and stand by it.

Fair enough. Though probably even homophobes and people who don't like Hibs can make a useful contribution in the information vacuum that is the SMSM. (Though they should of course be called out on the homophobia.)

[CyberSauzee]

It's a real pity in my opinion. He started off as a breath of fresh air but eventually descended into just saying stuff for shock value and then seems to genuinely wonder why other blogs are more popular than his. He doesn't seem to be able to discuss anything currently other than freemasonary at the SFA and John Beaton et al being bent. JJ will eventually just fade away in my opinion......

A good summary.

He loves a conspiracy theory as well. Faked moon landings, the McCanns, 9/11... You name it and he's got the definite inside knowledge of a cover up. It does him no favours.

[Topographic Hibby]

Speaking of odious, here is the latest on the guy that takes that term to a whole other level....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47422756

Have to be honest and admit I have no idea what this means. Posters more informed than me will keep us right.

[The Pointer]

That is deeply disappointing and looks like he's going to get off Scot free so is it up to Ashley now?

Seems the the coup-de-grace is still a long way off.

[jacomo]

Speaking of odious, here is the latest on the guy that takes that term to a whole other level....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47422756

Have to be honest and admit I have no idea what this means. Posters more informed than me will keep us right.


Good news for the Lying King.

Disreputable businessman gets away with it. Again.

[Ronniekirk]

Good news for the Lying King.

Disreputable businessman gets away with it. Again.

But he is Borrowing way out-with their means yet they have Won **** All Pleasing


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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/#.XH2dGD89Rvj.twitter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

But he is Borrowing way out-with their means yet they have Won **** All Pleasing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As with old Rangers it will be the arithmetic that gets them in the end. There is no chance there will be any FFP rules brought in. Clubs like Hibs are happy with the status quo.
But eventually they will run out of people to borrow off and then there will be a reckoning for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HoboHarry]

As with old Rangers it will be the arithmetic that gets them in the end. There is no chance there will be any FFP rules brought in. Clubs like Hibs are happy with the status quo.
But eventually they will run out of people to borrow off and then there will be a reckoning for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They borrowed again from Close last week so that will be the Morelos transfer fee (if there is one) accounted for already....

[Crazyhorse]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5729980]As with old Rangers it will be the arithmetic that gets them in the end. There is no chance there will be any FFP rules brought in. Clubs like Hibs are happy with the status quo.[QUOTE]


Many supporters seem to be happy to 'move on' too.

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5729980]As with old Rangers it will be the arithmetic that gets them in the end. There is no chance there will be any FFP rules brought in. Clubs like Hibs are happy with the status quo.[QUOTE]


Many supporters seem to be happy to 'move on' too.

Absolutely.


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[jacomo]

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/#.XH2dGD89Rvj.twitter


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UK Establishment rules of engagement:

1. Silence critics by setting up inquiry
2. Ensure it takes years to complete
3. Publish findings, confirming lamentable failings but anger dulled by the passage of time
4. Promise to ‘learn lessons’
5. Next...

[JeMeSouviens]

Daily Record, so who knows how accurate but ...


Former Rangers stars face huge bills this year after failing to strike a deal with HMRC over a controversial tax avoidance scheme.

It’s understood several of those who benefited from the Ibrox side’s Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) will be hit with tax demands – with some potentially owing millions.

It’s because they didn’t agree a repayment plan with HMRC by a deadline of April 5.

HMRC rules on so-called “disguised remuneration schemes” say the unpaid money will now be lumped into one income tax bill which is due at the end of the tax year. It’s not known which former Rangers figures have yet to settle with the taxman.

A source connected with the EBT investigation said: “Some former players were quick to agree a deal with the taxman who has been very fair in sorting out repayment plans.

“But others involved in the EBT scheme believe it’s the club who are to blame for this and are reluctant to pay the tax.”

HMRC was given power to go after former Rangers figures following a Supreme Court ruling in July 2017 that said EBT payments made under the David Murray regime at Ibrox were not loans but earnings that should have been taxed.

The payback could hit Ibrox old boys from goalie Stefan Klos to less heralded signings including Nuno Capucho and Julien Rodriguez.

Former club owner Murray, with an estimated liability of more than £3million, is by far the biggest potential loser.

A UK spokesman said: “HMRC is committed to providing affordable payment arrangements and enhanced support more vulnerable customers may need.”

[Fife-Hibee]

UK Establishment rules of engagement:

1. Silence critics by setting up inquiry
2. Ensure it takes years to complete
3. Publish findings, confirming lamentable failings but anger dulled by the passage of time
4. Promise to ‘learn lessons’
5. Next...

:top marks

[Bostonhibby]

Daily Record, so who knows how accurate but ...Jeez, if I were Sevco I'd be saying it's just as well the now defunct Glasgow rangers don't exist, and leave their former players to sort out their tax bills like everybody else.

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[PatHead]

I wonder what penalties will be added. I have seen some extortionate ones over the last few years.

[Ozyhibby]

I think The Rangers Football Club are in court again today with Sports Direct. No idea what’s happening.


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[HoboHarry]

I think The Rangers Football Club are in court again today with Sports Direct. No idea what’s happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think this is MA looking for compensation for Sevco setting up the retail outlet they had going.......

[Spike Mandela]

Daily Record, so who knows how accurate but ...

I dare say they will have been advised how to move their money around to protect it from the courts like the ‘bankrupt’ Barry Ferguson did.

[JeMeSouviens]

Meanwhile, they've put next season's STs on sale. The Lying King says:

"We are now within tangible reach of Rangers becoming the dominant force in Scottish football again."

Aye, good one Dave. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

I think this is MA looking for compensation for Sevco setting up the retail outlet they had going.......

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17574643.rangers-and-mike-ashley-in-latest-round-of-merchandise-deal-fight/

[Keith_M]

I dare say they will have been advised how to move their money around to protect it from the courts like the ‘bankrupt’ Barry Ferguson did.


I foresee a lot of 'bankruptcies' in the making.

[Bostonhibby]

Meanwhile, they've put next season's STs on sale. The Lying King says:

"We are now within tangible reach of Rangers becoming the dominant force in Scottish football again."

Aye, good one Dave. :greengrinThey're very silly boys if they believe that one.

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