Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[ScottB]

Going forward the only thing Hearts will have to worry about signing are cheques...

[Caversham Green]

Hopefully not premature but can I lead a vote of thanks to Caversham Green? His posts have brought a simplicity and clarity to the whole sorry shambles and I for one would like it to be him who officially announces ' Hearts are DEAD'

You're making me blush now, but in truth I don't care who actually says it so long as somebody can.


Preston is by far the biggest coq on the radio - he then went on to imply that Hahahertz were being picked on by the SPL - asking if Stuart Milne, Geoff Brown or Sir Tom's businesses had gone into administration would Aberdeen, St J and Hibs be penalized? I'm no expert but I'd imagine that the 3 clubs mentioned are totally separate from the main business? Clutching at straws - total throbber.

That argument is getting the whole issue spectacularly wrong. The whole point of the 'Group Company' provision is to prevent a club from dumping all it's liabilities on another group company, having the inter-company debt forgiven (or swapped for worthless share) and then allowing the group company to go bust, thereby shafting the creditors. Only one SPL club has done that and they have bloodied-turd coloured shirts.

The bottom line is that if UBIG hadn't indulged HoMFC to the tune of £65m there would be that much more available today for UBIG's creditors - they might not even have had to declare their insolvency.

[stokesmessiah]

Back on track here, definitive questions regarding Hearts ownership by the SPL need to be answered tomorrow. We all know there is a concerted effort from the YAMS trying to convince everybody that they are a stand alone self sustaining company. Keeping it as simple as possible, the definitive question that the SPL should ask tomorrow is this:

Do HMFC PLC (or whoever they call themselves) have the authority to sell the Club, or does it's recognised Parent Company (79% shares) have that authority?

IMO there can be only one answer, UBIG are the parent company, they're ****ed and so are HMFC. Relegation is the only outcome tomorrow, unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as another bowel collapse from the SPL.

GGTTH

Whether or not UBIG is the parent company is not the debate, they are and everyone knows it. Hell even Hearts referred to them as that on their website.What is in question is how watertight the SPL rules are in terms of calling last weeks news an insolvency event.

[Hibs07p]

Whether or not UBIG is the parent company is not the debate, they are and everyone knows it. Hell even Hearts referred to them as that on their website.What is in question is how watertight the SPL rules are in terms of calling last weeks news an insolvency event.

Ma heid's burlin' with aw the financial regs etc. Ah just need tae ken they're ****ed because they're ****ed, or they're no ****ed because they're no ****ed. Ah just think they're ****ed because they're a bunch of cheating baw bags wi' nae class!

GGTTH

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'd imagine you'll always celebrate an anniversary more if your "wife" is terminally ill.

Got to make the most of it while you can.

[matty_f]

I'd imagine you'll always celebrate an anniversary more if your "wife" is terminally ill.

Got to make the most of it while you can.

:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm surprisingly enjoying 5-1 day. Most Jambos I know are struggling with it, even more when you just laugh and say, 'yes, its a great era for football in Edinburgh.'

[Spike Mandela]

Back on track here, definitive questions regarding Hearts ownership by the SPL need to be answered tomorrow. We all know there is a concerted effort from the YAMS trying to convince everybody that they are a stand alone self sustaining company. Keeping it as simple as possible, the definitive question that the SPL should ask tomorrow is this:

Do HMFC PLC (or whoever they call themselves) have the authority to sell the Club, or does it's recognised Parent Company (79% shares) have that authority?

IMO there can be only one answer, UBIG are the parent company, they're ****ed and so are HMFC. Relegation is the only outcome tomorrow, unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as another bowel collapse from the SPL.

GGTTH

Wasn't their most popular mantra during the Romanov era "we owe the money to ourselves". Well if the companies they owe money to are insolvent surely it follows by their own mantra definition that they themselves are insolvent.:cb

[Disc O'Dave]

Cannae believe I am waking up this morning to messages of 'Happy 5-1 day'.

Are they being serious, their club is almost dead - arrogant ******** right till the bitter end!

Just hope they die soon!


That's because for a large percentage of their fans....hating Hibs means way more than loving Hearts. In fact I'd go so far as to say, that lot aren't that bothered about Hearts getting relegated, or even going to the wall. Hibs will still be here for them to hate, and that's the more important part of their weekend football routine...

The day they started their "big team" nonsense, and quickly realised it stood no scrutiny outside of Edinburgh (and even then, only over a relatively recent time period), it became an obsession with "what Hibs don't achieve" as opposed to "what Hearts can achieve", hence the obsession with the Scottish Cup, and crowd sizes...an obsession that meant while they were focussing all their attention on us, a dodgy foreign "millionaire" could waltz in, make some comments about "docksiders", drop in a few "big team" platitudes......and was handed the keys to the safe without question......

Hence where they find themselves today.....and hence why they still cannot raise the slightest bit of concern for their clubs' plight. They have simply forgotten how to.....

[linlithgowhibbie]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862262_10151565661537323_915582284_n.jpg?oh=120dd4 e3efeff9a4b958a0967445263a&oe=519989DC&__gda__=1369070318_1301a180eaabed832a1494513323d0c 3


What a bunch of morons.

They do know there club is about to be extinct?

I thought that was quite funny !!!

[greenginger]

Cannae believe I am waking up this morning to messages of 'Happy 5-1 day'.

Are they being serious, their club is almost dead - arrogant ******** right till the bitter end!

Just hope they die soon!

Just message them back saying 5 - 1 is the odds the bookies are giving against the Yams kicking a ball next season. :greengrin

[Hibs07p]

Wasn't their most popular mantra during the Romanov era "we owe the money to ourselves". Well if the companies they owe money to are insolvent surely it follows by their own mantra definition that they themselves are insolvent.:cb

It can't be put in a more simple context than that. :thumbsup:

[#FromTheCapital]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862262_10151565661537323_915582284_n.jpg?oh=120dd4 e3efeff9a4b958a0967445263a&oe=519989DC&__gda__=1369070318_1301a180eaabed832a1494513323d0c 3


What a bunch of morons.

They do know there club is about to be extinct?

Jeez Freddy Krueger has went rapidly downhill. From serial killer to fat jambo ******* in a few years.

[Sanger]

It can't be put in a more simple context than that. :thumbsup:

Of course they now owe £55m - £15m directly to UK Bankas and the rest indirectly via UBIG (£10 loan + £22m debt fie equity swap + £8.8m write off to Panama company) to the Lithuanian state who have ploughed £300m in to bail out Ukio Bankas's depositors.

[Hermit Crab]

Just message them back saying 5 - 1 is the odds the bookies are giving against the Yams kicking a ball next season. :greengrin

That's the odds we are to lift the cup in normal time.

[Kaiser1962]

I would say this thread is more about wanting hearts to die more than anything else. Everyday i log on I hope to read the news that they have finally been closed down.

I was merely pointing out that they have zero redeeming features. Their death is therefore as desirable as it is inevitable. Watching them embarass themselves by squirming and whingeing like little girls blouses that a big boy done it and ran away just highlights how pathetic and miserable they actually are. They cant even die with any dignity.

[Eyrie]

The maroon supremacists are going to get justice very soon.

Can't see how they can claim to be financially self-supporting when they haven't been able to pay wages on time this season and for the coming year are relying on selling unproven youths with little value to teams who know they are desperate for cash (see the Wallace discount for an example). They can't dissociate themselves from their legal parent company UBIG because it was UBIG who did the debt-for-equity swaps, so now that UBIG have stated publicly that they are insolvent the Yams are caught and must take the points deduction.

That puts them into Division One next season with much reduced revenues which will make it harder for them to come straight back. And in the meantime the Lithuanians will be trying to get the best deal for their taxpayers in the liquidation of Ukio Bankas and UBIG, so the PBS will be sold to the highest bidder - a house builder or supermarket. Their only hope is the knowledge that the liquidators will also look to sell the club for whatever they can get, which gives Save Hearts In Trouble a chance to acquire the shares. That though raises the problem of trying to secure banking facilities for a business that is proven to lose money and which is reliant on bogus pledges from A Kidd and V Screwed for its funding.

They're going to suffer :greengrin

[PatHead]

Just message them back saying 5 - 1 is the odds the bookies are giving against the Yams kicking a ball next season. :greengrin

Anyone see the bookies in the Famous Five yesterday? On the odds blackboard "Hearts to be in the SPL next season- Nae chance"

[hibs0666]

The maroon supremacists are going to get justice very soon.

Can't see how they can claim to be financially self-supporting when they haven't been able to pay wages on time this season and for the coming year are relying on selling unproven youths with little value to teams who know they are desperate for cash (see the Wallace discount for an example). They can't dissociate themselves from their legal parent company UBIG because it was UBIG who did the debt-for-equity swaps, so now that UBIG have stated publicly that they are insolvent the Yams are caught and must take the points deduction.

That puts them into Division One next season with much reduced revenues which will make it harder for them to come straight back. And in the meantime the Lithuanians will be trying to get the best deal for their taxpayers in the liquidation of Ukio Bankas and UBIG, so the PBS will be sold to the highest bidder - a house builder or supermarket. Their only hope is the knowledge that the liquidators will also look to sell the club for whatever they can get, which gives Save Hearts In Trouble a chance to acquire the shares. That though raises the problem of trying to secure banking facilities for a business that is proven to lose money and which is reliant on bogus pledges from A Kidd and V Screwed for its funding.

They're going to suffer :greengrin

Don't think that it will be Tiny that is sold - more likely that the yams debt(s) will be sold to some third party IMHO, with Tiny offered as the security on the loan.

[Ozyhibby]

Anyone see the bookies in the Famous Five yesterday? On the odds blackboard "Hearts to be in the SPL next season- Nae chance"

You should have got a pic of that. :-)

[PatHead]

You should have got a pic of that. :-)

Did but don't know how to attach it. Too old for these tekky things. Quite a few other guys were taking pictures though............

[WestEndHibee]

On page 495 of a Hearts thread.

I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

[Eyrie]

Don't think that it will be Tiny that is sold - more likely that the yams debt(s) will be sold to some third party IMHO, with Tiny offered as the security on the loan.

The problem is that the Yams will struggle to make the interest payments on that debt, let alone actually repay the £15m loan. Why would anyone in this country be willing to take that risk when they can let the Lithuanians deal with it in a professional and unemotional manner, then pick up what's left for relative pennies?

[hibs0666]

The problem is that the Yams will struggle to make the interest payments on that debt, let alone actually repay the £15m loan. Why would anyone in this country be willing to take that risk when they can let the Lithuanians deal with it in a professional and unemotional manner, then pick up what's left for relative pennies?

It will be easier for the administrator to realise the money by selling the debt rather than the assets. If the debt is sold at, say, £3-4 million then the company buying the debt will still make a healthy profit in the worst case when the yams default on the repayments, get turfed oot of Tiny and the land is re-developed.

However, I reckon it will take ages for the administrators to be in a position to sell the debt on given the legal and ownership complexities.

[ScottB]

I really think that given the mess they are in, the potential for years of criminal investigations etc. that I really can't see anyone getting to buy the current club, even if they are liquidated, as presumably the Lithuanian authorities will want to pick through the carcass?

So at best it'll be a Hearts newco, maybe lucky enough to buy the ground. Maybe not. :greengrin

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Back on track here, definitive questions regarding Hearts ownership by the SPL need to be answered tomorrow. We all know there is a concerted effort from the YAMS trying to convince everybody that they are a stand alone self sustaining company. Keeping it as simple as possible, the definitive question that the SPL should ask tomorrow is this:

Do HMFC PLC (or whoever they call themselves) have the authority to sell the Club, or does it's recognised Parent Company (79% shares) have that authority?

IMO there can be only one answer, UBIG are the parent company, they're ****ed and so are HMFC. Relegation is the only outcome tomorrow, unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as another bowel collapse from the SPL.

GGTTH

Judging by the media reports over the last day or so, that effort has failed. The debate now seems to centre on the technical point of whether this declaration to the Lithuanian Govt by UBIG "counts" as an insolvency event, or if there needs to be some form of court action first. An option for the SPL would be to exercise the Board's discretionary powers and say that a ruling on the points deduction will wait for that court action to happen (or not as the case may be). They've already done that to a limited extent by deferring their decision from last Friday to tomorrow.

[greengnome]

I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

My feelings exactly... If this was to happen, it would be a sad day for Scottish football......! :flag: :pfgwa

[blackpoolhibs]

I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

I cant see it myself, for no other reason than they wont be able to continue without money, and they cant pay their debts.

Also there will be an army of sevco fans just waiting in the wings to see justice done too. :greengrin

[Kato]

Save Hearts In Trouble



It's OK mate. I noticed that one. :not worth:not worth:top marks

[Diclonius]

Rangers will go mental if Hearts aren't relegated.

For the one and only time in my life, I'm glad they exist.

[Onion]

I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

They can do nothing about their club's demise - they are completely powerless. But they can celebrate last year's CF result to make themselves feel better.

IMHO the PROBLEM they have is that they've assumed our reaction to 5-1 would be the same as theirs would have been. Firstly that we'd desert the club in droves (didn't happen), that it would kill Hibs off (didn't happen) and that we'd be having nightmares about last May for ever and a day (not happening). So they feel obliged to TRY rub it in at every opportunity and TRY to get the reaction from Hibs fans that THEY EXPECTED. Much easier for them to concentrate on that than face the reality of their own demise.

Reality is that WE have moved on from May 2012, faced up to 5-1, stuck together, grown stronger and more determined and have shown Hibs Class throughout. It's why we are proud to be Hibbies and leave the Yams to wallow in their own bitter, self importance :greengrin

[hibeedonald]

I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

Nah I don't think we're obsessed with them at all, but nor are they obsessed with us, it's just normal football rivalry.

[Hibee87]

Judging by the media reports over the last day or so, that effort has failed. The debate now seems to centre on the technical point of whether this declaration to the Lithuanian Govt by UBIG "counts" as an insolvency event, or if there needs to be some form of court action first. An option for the SPL would be to exercise the Board's discretionary powers and say that a ruling on the points deduction will wait for that court action to happen (or not as the case may be). They've already done that to a limited extent by deferring their decision from last Friday to tomorrow.


And the spl have stated they would back track any decision to this season, so if the 'official' insolvency event is in 2 days, 2 weeks etc the spl will relegate hearts.....I think what you've said is pretty much spot on to what will be said/happen. I think the spl MUST be saying to hearts, 'look its only a matter of when the insolvency event is official in Lithuania and we'll be then deducting the points, therefore take the hit now and get on with it (till close season and the UKIO stuff kicks off proper, by then it wont be a SPL problem) :wink:

[jdships]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

[Treadstone]

I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

There probably is enough wiggle room for the SPL to perform a cop out but its not in their interests to do that just because they can. If they do and HoMFC go into admin in say 4 or 5 months it makes their positions untenable. The last thing the SPL wants is a club going bust mid season especailly one that they had the chance to punish.

[pontius pilate]

I've heard a points deduction for next season to be the yams punishment I could however be v v wrong lets hope so

[EdinMike]

My Uncle wrote a poem this morning, thought it was fitting to share.


They're gone, not here, forgotten
The maroon brigade now cry.
The city is now Hibernian
The team that would not die.


:flag:

[Mikey]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Caversham has been banging on about that since their accounts came out. They'll have got it from here.

The biggest single mistake that Hearts have made in the last month is publishing their accounts. It's got all the evidence needed to finish them off.

[stokesmessiah]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Not convinced you need to be a money man to answer that but I will give it a go....they won't and hearts are ****ed.

[Treadstone]

Caversham has been banging on about that since their accounts came out. They'll have got it from here.
.

Probably had the gonads to call it an 'exclusive'.

[Hibee87]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

I may be worng here, but there is no 'may' about it Hearts HAVE to pay them 15 million within 2 years plus the interest in thebest case scenario for them, wors case scenario is the administrator of the bank calls in th debt NOW - then there proper Donald ducked, add to the fact UBIG owe UKIO 9 mill (I think that's the amount) and have secured tyncastle as security of this debt, with UBIG being declared insolvent its surly only a matter of time before this is called in. and they also owe 10 mill (again I think) to UBIG, so when the admins swoop in their they will be looking for the money.........im no financial expert by any means, but I fail to see how hearts, in their present form, can exsist after all of this. and with no stadium (potentially) the sevco route is also looking unlikely. what I don't understand is why hearts are continuing to fight this losing battle, surley it would be of their own interest to call in the admins themselves and see what they can salvage from this mess......the alternative is have some Lithuanian mob potentially bulldoze in and tear the whole place down forever

[The Falcon]

I cant see it myself, for no other reason than they wont be able to continue without money, and they cant pay their debts.

Also there will be an army of sevco fans just waiting in the wings to see justice done too. :greengrin

Neither can I and especially as they are unlikely to get any line of credit, anywhere. Their last accounts had player sales, glamour european ties and a cup final and they still manged to post losses of £1.65m despite receiving £2.9m in "compensation income" from Kaunas. I would expect the 2012-2013 accounts to display similar methods of robbing the Lith taxpayer but next season such avenues will be closed.

I would expect that any money already received for season tickets for next season is already away, if not spent it will have weaseled its way to Vlad via Serge.

[connerg]

They can do nothing about their club's demise - they are completely powerless. But they can celebrate last year's CF result to make themselves feel better.

IMHO the PROBLEM they have is that they've assumed our reaction to 5-1 would be the same as theirs would have been. Firstly that we'd desert the club in droves (didn't happen), that it would kill Hibs off (didn't happen) and that we'd be having nightmares about last May for ever and a day (not happening). So they feel obliged to TRY rub it in at every opportunity and TRY to get the reaction from Hibs fans that THEY EXPECTED. Much easier for them to concentrate on that than face the reality of their own demise.

Reality is that WE have moved on from May 2012, faced up to 5-1, stuck together, grown stronger and more determined and have shown Hibs Class throughout. It's why we are proud to be Hibbies and leave the Yams to wallow in their own bitter, self importance :greengrin
Couldn't have put it better myself. :top marks:agree:

[Treadstone]

In the next set of accounts what would the 'Share' money received come under ? I suggest 'Payment Launch Under Management Structure'.

[Jack Hackett]

Can anyone point me to the website or the post on .net which calculated the Net Worth of Hibs and hertz

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

There probably is enough wiggle room for the SPL to perform a cop out but its not in their interests to do that just because they can. If they do and HoMFC go into admin in say 4 or 5 months it makes their positions untenable. The last thing the SPL wants is a club going bust mid season especailly one that they had the chance to punish.

Hearts have been heading for financial trouble for months though, arguably for a couple of years and the SPL did sweet **** all about it!

The SPL should have hammered them ages ago and brought them into line but they never had the balls. They should have told Hearts to reduce their debt and pay their taxes due but left them to their own devices, outspending way beyond their means.

The SPL should relegate them tomorrow if football is paramount but last May and their handling of the Rangers affair have already proven that the SPL are already incompetent and as culpable in this mess as those morons across the road.

The only way I'll have total faith and trust in the SPL board now is if they do the right thing and condem Hearts to the 1st division and openly state that financial cheating will no longer be tolerated by any club.

Not holding my breath though.........!

[MacBean]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Hearts say they are servicing their debt by paying interest. How much interest are they paying I hear you say? Well that would be £20k a month (or £60k a quarter).

But I'm sure that they are accruing £150k a quarter in interest? Yes that's true. They are paying £60k to be charged £150k, so a net increase in debt of £90k a quarter...

[Hibs07p]

In the next set of accounts what would the 'Share' money received come under ? I suggest 'Payment Launch Under Management Structure'.

PLUMS :thumbsup:

[lord bunberry]

Hearts say they are servicing their debt by paying interest. How much interest are they paying I hear you say? Well that would be £20k a month (or £60k a quarter).

But I'm sure that they are accruing £150k a quarter in interest? Yes that's true. They are paying £60k to be charged £150k, so a net increase in debt of £90k a quarter...

But they're self sufficient don't you know

[Caversham Green]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

As others have said, the accounts are absolutely clear that the £15m is interest only with the capital sum due in Decemebr 2015. They can't negotiate it away as part of a deal to buy the club because Ukio aren't the selling party and the administrator could not sanction such a deal and they will find it virtually impossible to refinance the loan with another bank.

In addition the £10m due to UBIG is due in March 2015 and is being paid down at the rate of £20k per month with effect from April 2013. That's going to leave them trying to find £9.6m in March 2015. Whilst that could conceivably have been negotiated away UBIG's insolvency makes that much more unlikely to happen. The accounts also state that they need money from player sales and a membership scheme to meet their more immediate cash-flow needs.

I would put their prospects of survival into three words (or one if the swear filter allowed it).

Not.

A.

Chance.

[The Green Goblin]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

That's an awful lot of 1s and 5s.... :greengrin

[WestEndHibee]

In the next set of accounts what would the 'Share' money received come under ? I suggest 'Payment Launch Under Management Structure'.

:top marks:thumbsup:

[Springbank]

That's an awful lot of 1s and 5s.... :greengrin

Fitting! 1-5 killed Hearts, and their fans went into it all with eyes side open 8)

[poolman]

PLUMS :thumbsup:

Defo plums

Hector's file is
Named under: Finance Under Direct Scrutiny

[1two]

I think tomorrow is going to be disappointing

I think the worst they'll get is a transfer embargo

[SmashinGlass]

I think tomorrow is going to be disappointing

I think the worst they'll get is a transfer embargo

I disagree. No chance whatsoever that this will be the only punishment. It has to be a points deduction, or else the SPL had better be ready for fireworks from Dundee and the rangers

[Gus Fring]

I think tomorrow is going to be disappointing

I think the worst they'll get is a transfer embargo

I'm not sure thats one of the available punishments? Pretty sure they'll either deduct points or explain that UBIG aren't close enough for it to apply.

My overall point on this whole thing still stands though, if the SPL were going to bottle it, they'd have done it on Thursday. The SPL have already had a line of communication with Hearts RE: Players wages, so they will know better than most about their financial situation. They're not falling for all this "self-sufficient" BS that Barry and Co keep pedalling. Their attitude has always been evidence or GTFO.

[Billy Whizz]

I'm not sure thats one of the available punishments? Pretty sure they'll either deduct points or explain that UBIG aren't close enough for it to apply

Any idea when we will expect an announcement tomorrow? 1st thing or end of play?

[Hibercelona]

I disagree. No chance whatsoever that this will be the only punishment. It has to be a points deduction, or else the SPL had better be ready for fireworks from Dundee and the rangers

:agree:

It'll have to be something more severe, even if it is just to appease the orcs.

[Northernhibee]

Really wouldn't surprise me if the SPL found a way to deduct Hearts just ten points so they're in the SPL next season with a smaller points deduction. Really wouldn't at all.

[Togs91]

TV companies now loosing the edinburgh derby if this all comes through tomorrow, what could that mean for the SPL as a whole?

[WestEndHibee]

Really wouldn't surprise me if the SPL found a way to deduct Hearts just ten points so they're in the SPL next season with a smaller points deduction. Really wouldn't at all.

This won't happen, it'll either be the full whack or none at all depending on the legal aspects. They'll make the decision and they'll have accurate backing for it, otherwise could you imagine the uproar from the Sevconians?

[Haymaker]

:agree:

It'll have to be something more severe, even if it is just to appease the orcs.

This is where we need chucky at the orcs, he would have been screaming about this for the past week!

[Gus Fring]

Really wouldn't surprise me if the SPL found a way to deduct Hearts just ten points so they're in the SPL next season with a smaller points deduction. Really wouldn't at all.

Ironically if that happens, Hearts would have an even better claim to get it reversed as that's not one of the available sanctions.

My understanding is that only one of three things will happen tomorrow, they are

1) Hearts will be deducted 18 points and thus relegated from the SPL. (The most likely as this is the most universally accepted interpretation of the rules.)

2) Hearts will be deducted 15 points for next season (this is the least likely because the "insolvency event" occurred this season, it would take a fair bit of bending)

3) The SPL will declare that UBIG are seperate enough from Hearts that a points deduction is not required at this stage. (This would come under massive scrutiny as there will be many interested parties, specifically Dundee and Rangers but is plausible)

So worst case scenario is 3 but even if that does happen, nothing really changes and Hearts STILL have major financial difficulties coupled with a couple of administrators potentially chasing them.

[Gus Fring]

TV companies now loosing the edinburgh derby if this all comes through tomorrow, what could that mean for the SPL as a whole?

Nothing. The TV deals are in place. What would have happened if Hearts had been relegated via the traditional method? Nothing. If anything Rangers being in Division 3 has actually been better for the rest of the league as its meant higher attendances and a TV deal that didn't exist before.

[Billy Whizz]

Nothing. The TV deals are in place. What would have happened if Hearts had been relegated via the traditional method? Nothing. If anything Rangers being in Division 3 has actually been better for the rest of the league as its meant higher attendances and a TV deal that didn't exist before.

The SPL have no sponsor for next season. Was listening to the St Johnstone chairman on the radio today, he said that no sponsor would cost his club £200,000 per season, on top of this Hibs could lose around £250,000 with no Derby's next season. A huge hit potentially for us as well

[lord bunberry]

You have to laugh at their claims to be self sufficient when they haven't paid their office staff for 2 months, they must be consigned to the dustbin as soon as possible

[weonlywon6-2]

I think tomorrow is going to be disappointing

I think the worst they'll get is a transfer embargo

I agree,have feeling that they will get of lightly.There is just not enough definite answers for the sfa to make a big decision.
Really hope im proved wrong !

[Treadstone]

Ironically if that happens, Hearts would have an even better claim to get it reversed as that's not one of the available sanctions.

My understanding is that only one of three things will happen tomorrow,

There is a fourth Bajillions and in my view most likely. A postponement of decision to gather more info to give themselves some thinking time and possibly hope the Lith situation reveals itself with unopposable clarity.

[BroxburnHibee]

There is a fourth Bajillions and in my view most likely. A postponement of decision to gather more info to give themselves some thinking time and possibly hope the Lith situation reveals itself with unopposable clarity.

That's what I think will happen too

[Hibercelona]

There is a fourth Bajillions and in my view most likely. A postponement of decision to gather more info to give themselves some thinking time and possibly hope the Lith situation reveals itself with unopposable clarity.

Ah, the usual way of dealing with things then.

[Treadstone]

Ah, the usual way of dealing with things then.

Yep they definitely have previous for it.

[essexhibee]

What time is this meeting tomorrow?

[Sergey]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I looking over at JKB and noticed a post from a new organisation - 1874 Fighting Fund [Ed - who they?]. It's along similar lines to the Foundation of Hearts ruse, where their looking for pledges with little or no agenda.

I know that that lot are a gullible bunch, but surely having different fans groups championing for cash simply dilutes what could be raised if they acted as one.

24 hours before their club could face oblivion/extinction, reality looks to have finally dawned and between both groups they haven't raised a penny in hard cash.

They honestly never thought the day would come.

:ostrich:

[Onion]

There is a fourth Bajillions and in my view most likely. A postponement of decision to gather more info to give themselves some thinking time and possibly hope the Lith situation reveals itself with unopposable clarity.

:agree:Agree with this. The SPL are a bunch of incompetents with an embarrassing track record of procrastinating, hoping that the problem just goes away. Now that the season has ended, it is just far too easy for them to say" we don't have enough information yet" which in SPL speak means that they've yet to consult with the OF, TV broadcasters and the Glasgow Press. They cannot afford to cock this up, as they did with Sevco.

Hearts have been heading towards this iceberg for over a year, so what have the SPL been doing in that time ? You've guessed, crossing their fingers hoping it doesn't happen. If this was a private company or government body, you just could not get away with this. It would have been in the top 5 risks to the business with clear sight of the implications.

[Scònaldò]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I looking over at JKB and noticed a post from a new organisation - 1874 Fighting Fund [Ed - who they?]. It's along similar lines to the Foundation of Hearts ruse, where their looking for pledges with little or no agenda.

I know that that lot are a gullible bunch, but surely having different fans groups championing for cash simply dilutes what could be raised if they acted as one.

24 hours before their club could face oblivion/extinction, reality looks to have finally donned and between both groups they haven't raised a penny in hard cash.

They honestly never thought the day would come.

:ostrich:

They don't care.

5-1 is all that matters.

ENDOF

[Saorsa]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I looking over at JKB and noticed a post from a new organisation - 1874 Fighting Fund [Ed - who they?]. It's along similar lines to the Foundation of Hearts ruse, where their looking for pledges with little or no agenda.

I know that that lot are a gullible bunch, but surely having different fans groups championing for cash simply dilutes what could be raised if they acted as one.

24 hours before their club could face oblivion/extinction, reality looks to have finally dawned and between both groups they haven't raised a penny in hard cash.

They honestly never thought the day would come.

:ostrich:Is there a link tae make a pledge (or two or three) tae this group? :greengrin I've pledged heavily tae the other group, I think it only fair tae pledge here too. :agree:

[Hibercelona]

I know that that lot are a gullible bunch, but surely having different fans groups championing for cash simply dilutes what could be raised if they acted as one.
:ostrich:

There's too many "bus organizers" on that site.

I can assure you that any money that goes towards these "fund raisers" will be diluted down to absolutely 0. :cb

[PatHead]

For those asking about the time tomorrow. On the radio yesterday they said there was a full meeting of the SPL re reconstruction and a board meeting would take place afterwards when they expected Hearts situation would be discussed.

[JollyGreenGiant]

So, good chance they will sit discussing it most of the afternoon, then release a statement saying that they need more time!!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I looking over at JKB and noticed a post from a new organisation - 1874 Fighting Fund [Ed - who they?]. It's along similar lines to the Foundation of Hearts ruse, where their looking for pledges with little or no agenda.

I know that that lot are a gullible bunch, but surely having different fans groups championing for cash simply dilutes what could be raised if they acted as one.

24 hours before their club could face oblivion/extinction, reality looks to have finally dawned and between both groups they haven't raised a penny in hard cash.

They honestly never thought the day would come.

:ostrich:

F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

Just loving the way that they are acting in such an officious, Yammish, way. Committees, titles, office bearers, and no doubt blazers and smart ties.

They are a bumptious bunch of lickspittle nonentities, whose arrogance and belief in a system that put them near the top of the pile, has brought them to the edge of oblivion.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So, good chance they will sit discussing it most of the afternoon, then release a statement saying that they need more time!!!

It's how all big businesses operate, er.....

[Gus Fring]

There is a fourth Bajillions and in my view most likely. A postponement of decision to gather more info to give themselves some thinking time and possibly hope the Lith situation reveals itself with unopposable clarity.

Good point well made

[twiceinathens]

Logic legality and morality should make their demise inevitable but my cynical side forces me to expect that some way will be found to let them escape relatively unharmed. The major hopeful aspect is that having eventually being forced into dealing with Sevco is it likely they will be prepared to anger them again by dealing more favourably with their little cousins?

[Treadstone]

F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

Just loving the way that they are acting in such an officious, Yammish, way. Committees, titles, office bearers, and no doubt blazers and smart ties.

They are a bumptious bunch of lickspittle nonentities, whose arrogance and belief in a system that put them near the top of the pile, has brought them to the edge of oblivion.

Garbage! We are the REAL fans representatives the FiveOne Fund not to be confused with the OneFive Fund. We are a splinter group from the 1902 Fighting Fund.:aok:

[Springbank]

Madness. Welcome to the House of Fund

[Gus Fring]

Madness. Welcome to the House of FundI

I think you mean Fund House. Pat Sharp was always a yam :agree:

[hibs0666]

Surprised that Pat the Plumber hasn't made an appearance lately.

[blackpoolhibs]

Surprised that Pat the Plumber hasn't made an appearance lately.

Far too many holes to plug. :greengrin

[fat freddy]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3610475]F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

I think the time is right to launch a new initiative to save Hearts...I have decided, in the interests of preserving the Edinburgh Derby, to help Hearts to save themselves as they are completely useless at doing it themselves...With extensive experience gained with Hands Off Hibs we, The Hibernian family, are the only group with the neccessary skills that can save this basket case....I have consulted other concerned Hibbies and we have decided to call our rescue committee 'Secure Hearts In Tynecastle' or S.H.I.T for short...we intend to make contact with The Federation Of Hearts Supporters Clubs, The Foundation Of Hearts, The 1874 Fighting Fund, The Gorgie Aggro, Jambos Kickback Committee, The Management of The Brauhaus Bar, The World War 1 War Graves Society, Shawn Lawson, Gary McKay, John Robertson, Jambo Jimmy and Craigyboy to form a united fighting force to ensure Hearts are around for the forseeable future

We intend to embark on a fundraising exercise and all monies raised will go towards buying a time machine from Marty McFly which will take us back in time to a period when Hearts were a normal, well managed club who lived within their means and got humped regulary off Hibs. We will then defy the space/time continuum and transport the whole club into the present period to continue as a going concern with no debts. Tynecastle Stadium main stand will not be required to travel forwards in time as it remains in the same condition now as it was one hundred years ago.

Anyone interested in making a donation make your cheques and postal orders payable to 'Giving to S.H.I.T. All contributions will gleefuly accepted.:wink:

A

[Gatecrasher]

Just watched their highlights from yesterday on the BBC web site. A good preview to next season? :greengrin

[Sweet Left Peg]

Not to be confused with the People's Front of Funding. Which does not accept funding from people, only the acceptance of money from the people it expects are the most gullible to part with it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just watched their highlights from yesterday on the BBC web site. A good preview to next season? :greengrin

Surely evidence of the best young players in Scotland holding their own whilst undergoing a steep learning curve?

[telfordhibby]

Nigel Farage UKIP Leader was only in Edinburgh to support the Jambos and was to tell them UKIP will take thier case to the Court of Aribtration in Europe. Hibs supporters protested out side the boozer in the High Street and got the meeting cancelled according to the Jambos in the Telford...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Mary Portis, the ghost of John Harvey-Jones and some schemie named Shuggy are apparently troubleshooting through the issues of the Jambo cling-ons and will "strategise" in advance of tomorrows news. In lieu of and good news they all agreed that they wouldn't be in this mess if it wasn't for them pesky Hibees. They each take a ceremonial dart to throw at pictures of Griffiths, Sergey and Mikey. All of them miss apart from Mary who spears the unfortunate Shuggy... Meeting suspended whilst Shuggy is carted off to ERI.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

After penning the prophetic "The End",

Jimbo pens another classic...

"Five to one, baby, one in five.
No one here gets out alive, now.
You get yours, baby, I'll get mine.
Gonna make it, baby, if we try.


The old get old, and the young get stronger.
May take a week, and it may take longer.
They got the ****s, but we got the numbers.
Gonna win yeah, we're taking over."

[Phil D. Rolls]

After penning the prophetic "The End",

Jimbo pens another classic...

"Five to one, baby, one in five.
No one here gets out alive, now.
You get yours, baby, I'll get mine.
Gonna make it, baby, if we try.


The old get old, and the young get stronger.
May take a week, and it may take longer.
They got the ****s, but we got the numbers.
Gonna win yeah, we're taking over."

Their ballroom days are over. :agree:

[MB62]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3610475]F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

I think the time is right to launch a new initiative to save Hearts...I have decided, in the interests of preserving the Edinburgh Derby, to help Hearts to save themselves as they are completely useless at doing it themselves...With extensive experience gained with Hands Off Hibs we, The Hibernian family, are the only group with the neccessary skills that can save this basket case....I have consulted other concerned Hibbies and we have decided to call our rescue committee 'Secure Hearts In Tynecastle' or S.H.I.T for short...we intend to make contact with The Federation Of Hearts Supporters Clubs, The Foundation Of Hearts, The 1874 Fighting Fund, The Gorgie Aggro, Jambos Kickback Committee, The Management of The Brauhaus Bar, The World War 1 War Graves Society, Shawn Lawson, Gary McKay, John Robertson, Jambo Jimmy and Craigyboy to form a united fighting force to ensure Hearts are around for the forseeable future

We intend to embark on a fundraising exercise and all monies raised will go towards buying a time machine from Marty McFly which will take us back in time to a period when Hearts were a normal, well managed club who lived within their means and got humped regulary off Hibs. We will then defy the space/time continuum and transport the whole club into the present period to continue as a going concern with no debts. Tynecastle Stadium main stand will not be required to travel forwards in time as it remains in the same condition now as it was one hundred years ago.

Anyone interested in making a donation make your cheques and postal orders payable to 'Giving to S.H.I.T. All contributions will gleefuly accepted.:wink:

A

A very admirable cause and hope it is a successful one. However, having already made several pledges to other Yam funds, I am unable to contribute to this too. Therefore, I have to admit, I am not giving a S.H.I.T. and whatever happens, happens. :wink: :greengrin

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Their ballroom days are over. :agree:

I love that line.

[Lang Toun Hibs]

Garbage! We are the REAL fans representatives the FiveOne Fund not to be confused with the OneFive Fund. We are a splinter group from the 1902 Fighting Fund.:aok:

What about the judean people's front?

[pedroorange1875]

what about the judean people's front?

splitters!!!!!!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Jimbo obviously a visionary man - penned this for the Jambo cling-ons...

Well, I woke up this morning, I got myself a beer
Well, I woke up this morning, and I got myself a beer
The future's uncertain, and the end is always near

All tracks to be digitally remastered and re-released in a compilation "Jambos in a Storm - my life as a closet Yam"

[Mr White]

Cancel their subscription to the resurrection.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What about the judean people's front?

Did they have something to do with the aqueducts? Or was it the sanitation?

[EuanH78]

I think I am actually of the opinion that the ubig insolvency is a step too far removed from hearts to warrant the points deduction. However, the spl must be aware that it's in the post for hearts and I wonder if it is this that will inform their decision. Hearts are a dead man walking and must be likely to keel over next season if not the summer so getting rid of them now saves the spl from utter chaos.

[Gus Fring]

I think I am actually of the opinion that the ubig insolvency is a step too far removed from hearts to warrant the points deduction. However, the spl must be aware that it's in the post for hearts and I wonder if it is this that will inform their decision. Hearts are a dead man walking and must be likely to keel over next season if not the summer so getting rid of them now saves the spl from utter chaos.

I was talking to a Yam today who made this very case, saying "I don't think the SPL will want to punish us twice" I explained to them if they get relegated then they fall outside of the SPL's jurisdiction and won't be their problem for at least a year (which Hearts would be unlikely to last through)

Other trains of thought are that Hearts are actually more likely to survive if they get dropped to D1 because they won't be spending as much.

Personally, I'm hoping that the SPL choose to make an example out of Hearts who they know are going to go bust anyway simultaneously sending a message to the whole of scottish football - "Your overspending/financial mismanagement/ parent company jiggery pokery will not be tolerated"

[mca]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3610475]F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

I think the time is right to launch a new initiative to save Hearts...I have decided, in the interests of preserving the Edinburgh Derby, to help Hearts to save themselves as they are completely useless at doing it themselves...With extensive experience gained with Hands Off Hibs we, The Hibernian family, are the only group with the neccessary skills that can save this basket case....I have consulted other concerned Hibbies and we have decided to call our rescue committee 'Secure Hearts In Tynecastle' or S.H.I.T for short...we intend to make contact with The Federation Of Hearts Supporters Clubs, The Foundation Of Hearts, The 1874 Fighting Fund, The Gorgie Aggro, Jambos Kickback Committee, The Management of The Brauhaus Bar, The World War 1 War Graves Society, Shawn Lawson, Gary McKay, John Robertson, Jambo Jimmy and Craigyboy to form a united fighting force to ensure Hearts are around for the forseeable future

We intend to embark on a fundraising exercise and all monies raised will go towards buying a time machine from Marty McFly which will take us back in time to a period when Hearts were a normal, well managed club who lived within their means and got humped regulary off Hibs. We will then defy the space/time continuum and transport the whole club into the present period to continue as a going concern with no debts. Tynecastle Stadium main stand will not be required to travel forwards in time as it remains in the same condition now as it was one hundred years ago.

Anyone interested in making a donation make your cheques and postal orders payable to 'Giving to S.H.I.T. All contributions will gleefuly accepted.:wink:

A

Excellent.. :greengrin



Myself and my family were so Touched by their plight and the above giving to S.H.I.Tseems like a great idea..

The wife pledges 70p and the bairns pledge 62p... and since its the anniversary - im going to dig deep and add another 51p... or was that 15p.. :thumbsup:

[Pat 0-7]

I disagree. No chance whatsoever that this will be the only punishment. It has to be a points deduction, or else the SPL had better be ready for fireworks from Dundee and the rangers

I have no faith in the SPL doing the right thing. Useless incompetent organisation.

Punish the cheating Yam fuds ffs!




P.S. - we on page 500 yet??? :wink:

[jacomo]

I have no faith in the SPL doing the right thing. Useless incompetent organisation.

Punish the cheating Yam fuds ffs!




P.S. - we on page 500 yet??? :wink:

500 pages of this. Hibs.net has excelled as the leading authority on the insane past decade or so at Hearts, but my only regret is that this very thread didn't begin the day Romanov turned up. After all we all predicted things ending up this way, even back then...

Edit: darn, not quite 500 pages yet. :wink:

[Gus Fring]

P.S. - we on page 500 yet??? :wink:

Now we are :)

Another good one, anyone know who's behind it?

Andy Barryson @AndyBarryson_8
(http://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)Gary Locke say's he confident #Hearts (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts) will be in the #SPL (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23SPL) next season.Ma heedline will be "Gary Locke likes takin the piss"

[steakbake]

Not














































....yet

[jacomo]

I think I am actually of the opinion that the ubig insolvency is a step too far removed from hearts to warrant the points deduction. However, the spl must be aware that it's in the post for hearts and I wonder if it is this that will inform their decision. Hearts are a dead man walking and must be likely to keel over next season if not the summer so getting rid of them now saves the spl from utter chaos.

Is it based on whether or not Hearts are wholly owned by UBiG, or the fact that UBIG had significant other interests apart from Hearts?

I am sure the SPL dread the thought of another Gretna situation, with the diet Zombies lurching on from week to week in the top division.

[BroxburnHibee]

500 pages eh. Mikey must be proud :thumbsup:

[Bostonhibby]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;3610475]F....ck off! We're the Fund Fighting for 1874, we despise the 1874 Fighting Fund (all spit) and everything they stand for.

I think the time is right to launch a new initiative to save Hearts...I have decided, in the interests of preserving the Edinburgh Derby, to help Hearts to save themselves as they are completely useless at doing it themselves...With extensive experience gained with Hands Off Hibs we, The Hibernian family, are the only group with the neccessary skills that can save this basket case....I have consulted other concerned Hibbies and we have decided to call our rescue committee 'Secure Hearts In Tynecastle' or S.H.I.T for short...we intend to make contact with The Federation Of Hearts Supporters Clubs, The Foundation Of Hearts, The 1874 Fighting Fund, The Gorgie Aggro, Jambos Kickback Committee, The Management of The Brauhaus Bar, The World War 1 War Graves Society, Shawn Lawson, Gary McKay, John Robertson, Jambo Jimmy and Craigyboy to form a united fighting force to ensure Hearts are around for the forseeable future

We intend to embark on a fundraising exercise and all monies raised will go towards buying a time machine from Marty McFly which will take us back in time to a period when Hearts were a normal, well managed club who lived within their means and got humped regulary off Hibs. We will then defy the space/time continuum and transport the whole club into the present period to continue as a going concern with no debts. Tynecastle Stadium main stand will not be required to travel forwards in time as it remains in the same condition now as it was one hundred years ago.

Anyone interested in making a donation make your cheques and postal orders payable to 'Giving to S.H.I.T. All contributions will gleefuly accepted.:wink:

A

:faf: Uniting all these groups has to be the way to do it, but what about the Spanish inquisition?

No one expects the Spanish inquisition and they usually steam in just too late right at the end, and the end is surely coming.

I also don't see how you can do it without the Judean Peoples front (Gorgie Branch) and you won't be able to invite them without inviting the Peoples front of Judea (Roseburn and district) or there will be hat kicking at the very least.

Then, once you have recruited a decent brass band for the parade you will be able to start talking to the fans seriously about maybe forming some sort of committee to knock up a letter to the Evening News, or at least agree a wording for the approval of the inner council when they can all make it after their summer holidays.

Mind if you are asking wee shaun along, he isn't allowed to leave his front garden and he has to go to bed straight after his tea so maybe you could relocate S.H.I.T's HQ round to Shaun's?

[Mikey]

Next landmark is 2m views.

And that's coming tomorrow :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

So, good chance they will sit discussing it most of the afternoon, then release a statement saying that they need more time!!!

:agree: And the 400,000 will finally do something to save their club, a giant rally of the faithful outside the meeting to maximise the pressure.

[Sergey]

There's amateurs....and there's amateurs.

1874 Fighting Fund's reveille was:


The 1874 Fighting Fund are still getting everything up and running, so please bear with us as other parts come on-stream over the coming days, including; Website; Twitter; Facebook; Email; and Paypal, but we were very keen to start the ball rolling on JKB, at the time the final whistle went,

:aok:

Professional jakeys.

[PatHead]

Heard S.H.I.T. have set up a fund raising scheme through the Rover Owners Club and are doing a fundraiser outside Cardigans r Us tomorrow. That should raise a vintage pair of drivers gloves and a few elbow patches at least.

[jacomo]

There's amateurs....and there's amateurs.

1874 Fighting Fund's reveille was:



:aok:

Professional jakeys.

Had an idle moment while doing some work this evening, decided to see whats what with the Jambos and their efforts to save their club. it seems Save Our Hearts seen to have been offline since mid-November...

http://saveourhearts.com/

Presumably, Hearts are saved, and we'll all get the details soon enough? Or have they been subsumed into another group? Or just too busy baking?

[PatHead]

Had an idle moment while doing some work this evening, decided to see whats what with the Jambos and their efforts to save their club. it seems Save Our Hearts seen to have been offline since mid-November...

http://saveourhearts.com/

Presumably, Hearts are saved, and we'll all get the details soon enough? Or have they been subsumed into another group? Or just too busy baking?

They even think they have no upcoming events- someone better warn them.

[NOLA]

i have no faith in the spl to deal with hertz tomorrow, bottle merchants.

[Waxy]

i have no faith in the spl to deal with hertz tomorrow, bottle merchants.They must relegate them.Looking at the evidence they have no other option.

[21.05.2016]

i have no faith in the spl to deal with hertz tomorrow, bottle merchants.

:agree: nae backbone

[1two]

They must relegate them.Looking at the evidence they have no other option.

They'll make another option up
They have previous for it

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I want them gone as quickly as possible, I'm quite happy to see them in a steady decline until the end of 2015 though.

[Spike Mandela]

Why does this thread state there is a decision being made tomorrow on points dieduction? They have only said they are meeting to discuss the situation. It isn't even main business of the day.

There is a meeting on reconstruction and this board meeting has been tagged on at the end. The only likely decision that will be made tomorrow is whether to have cakes or biscuits with their coffee.

[Leithenhibby]

i have no faith in the spl to deal with hertz tomorrow, bottle merchants.


They must relegate them.Looking at the evidence they have no other option.


:agree: nae backbone


The main thing is, we can't lose.

Either way, they have enough rope to hang themselves :wink: NewCo will be watching this one :greengrin

Enjoy the ride :aok:

[EuanH78]

Is it based on whether or not Hearts are wholly owned by UBiG, or the fact that UBIG had significant other interests apart from Hearts?

I am sure the SPL dread the thought of another Gretna situation, with the diet Zombies lurching on from week to week in the top division.

I'm not sure. Whilst only the deluded or insane would claim hearts are self sustained in any real sense the truth is they are still trading at the moment. I just don't think the spl could take the risk of keeping them with the odds stacked on them collapsing very soon. Points deduction must be the cautious option.

[Gus Fring]

Why does this thread state there is a decision being made tomorrow on points dieduction? They have only said they are meeting to discuss the situation. It isn't even main business of the day.

There is a meeting on reconstruction and this board meeting has been tagged on at the end. The only likely decision that will be made tomorrow is whether to have cakes or biscuits with their coffee.

It's been added to the agenda at the first possible opportunity which would suggest it has a somewhat high priority. The story was that the board had already discussed this at length on Thursday. Whatever happens tomorrow the SPL will need to at least make a statement.

[Springbank]

It may just be that the spl needed to be 100% sure of the translation about ubig... The difference between applying for administration or actually being in administration.

Either way the post by euanH78 above comes into play: the issue isn't whether ubig are going into admin, it's whether it's technically this season or next when it is confirmed...and that means either way hearts are in danger of not fulfilling future fixtures.

If I was an spl chairman I'd want that to be someone else's problem ie the sfl

[Spike Mandela]

It's been added to the agenda at the first possible opportunity which would suggest it has a somewhat high priority. The story was that the board had already discussed this at length on Thursday. Whatever happens tomorrow the SPL will need to at least make a statement.

I fully expect a statement saying there will be a statement when they have something to state. I can't believe the confidence some people have in this SPL board to actually make a decision.

Doncaster often quotes making decisions "withot fear or favour" but during the Rangers debacle he was quivering with fear when cornered and tried everything to favour Rangers.

This bunch of incompetent fools will do nothing tomorrow.

[PatHead]

I don't think the SPL will not announce their decision tomorrow but will try to clarify whether or not an "insolvency event" has occurred. Just because the stage of placing yourself on a register doesn't occur in the UK it does not mean that this event will not result in a points deduction. The SPL will want to make sure they are correct in this assumption. They are in the process of getting a new sponsor and will want to make sure they are correct and it doesn't drag on all summer putting off potential sponsors. I think an announcement will be made later in the week by the SPL. However events concerning Hearts future viability may supersede their decision.

[Paisley Hibby]

Ironically if that happens, Hearts would have an even better claim to get it reversed as that's not one of the available sanctions.

My understanding is that only one of three things will happen tomorrow, they are

1) Hearts will be deducted 18 points and thus relegated from the SPL. (The most likely as this is the most universally accepted interpretation of the rules.)

2) Hearts will be deducted 15 points for next season (this is the least likely because the "insolvency event" occurred this season, it would take a fair bit of bending)

3) The SPL will declare that UBIG are seperate enough from Hearts that a points deduction is not required at this stage. (This would come under massive scrutiny as there will be many interested parties, specifically Dundee and Rangers but is plausible)

So worst case scenario is 3 but even if that does happen, nothing really changes and Hearts STILL have major financial difficulties coupled with a couple of administrators potentially chasing them.

There is no doubt that there has been an "insolvency event" prior to the end of this season because what UBIG did on Thursday is defined as such an event in the SPL rules. So I don't see how your option 2 can possibly be applied. It's also clear that because Hearts FC are part of a "group undertaking" which includes UBIG, the SPL can legitimately deduct 18 points. However, whether they do so in this type of case is at the discretion of the SPL board. They have to exercise that discretion taking into account 2 things. The first is the need to protect the "integrity and continuity of the league". The second is the relationship between Hearts FC and the group undertaking of which it is a part. The YAMS are majoring on the second point as they think they can argue the relationship is not close enough. Their problem is whether the SPL can also be convinced that letting them off would protect the integrity and continuity of the league. This really could go either way.

[SaulGoodman]

Monday.


Are they deed yet?

[Paisley Hibby]

It's Monday - tic tock...:chop:

[silverhibee]

For any yams looking in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2I84-A9duY :lolyam:

[The Harp]

Heard S.H.I.T. have set up a fund raising scheme through the Rover Owners Club and are doing a fundraiser outside Cardigans r Us tomorrow. That should raise a vintage pair of drivers gloves and a few elbow patches at least.

Heard they're to have a mass sweety paper rustling demo outside the asbestos dome and a cake recipe swap session is planned - could turn nasty.

[Jones28]

So who's going for post 15000?!

[Saorsa]

So who's going for post 15000?!you can have it.....oops

[lord bunberry]

It may just be that the spl needed to be 100% sure of the translation about ubig... The difference between applying for administration or actually being in administration.

Either way the post by euanH78 above comes into play: the issue isn't whether ubig are going into admin, it's whether it's technically this season or next when it is confirmed...and that means either way hearts are in danger of not fulfilling future fixtures.

If I was an spl chairman I'd want that to be someone else's problem ie the sfl

The spl and the sfl won't exist next season its going to be one governing body

[silverhibee]

you can have it.....oops

:tee hee:

[Hibrandenburg]

Has anyone taken their pulse yet this morning?

[Part/Time Supporter]

A curious story in the Scotsman today about the Hearts situation (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/john-robertson-confident-hearts-will-remain-in-spl-1-2936909). They have just printed verbatim what John Robertson said about it on Radio Scotland during the pre-match section on Saturday. Maybe just as well they didn't print the paranoid delusional ramblings of Allan Preston.

:greengrin

I say curious because it doesn't provide any new insight at all, or even take a guess as to what will happen.

[Liams]

Ahhh this is so excitings... This could be the the start of the best weeek in any hibs fans life!!!! Are they dead yet!???

[Treadstone]

A curious story in the Scotsman today about the Hearts situation (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/john-robertson-confident-hearts-will-remain-in-spl-1-2936909). They have just printed verbatim what John Robertson said about it on Radio Scotland during the pre-match section on Saturday. Maybe just as well they didn't print the paranoid delusional ramblings of Allan Preston.

:greengrin

I say curious because it doesn't provide any new insight at all, or even take a guess as to what will happen.

Bizarre ! At one point in the article it seems as though Blobbo has answered a question but the writer doesn't make clear what the question was.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Monday.


Are they deed yet?

The killer woke at dawn
He put his boots on
and he walked on down the hall...

[well one day this week surely ;) ]

[EdinMike]

I reckon, sadly. That wee fat Blobbo is right. I reckon nothing will happen today. And it's put a damper on what should be a funny and exciting day...

But the day is young ! It's gonna be a roller coaster of emotions ! :flag:

[Sanger]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.bankrotodep.lt/Nemokios.php%0A%0A




http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.bankrotodep.lt/Nemokios.php%0A%0A

[marti1875]

Oh dear, after a drunken night last night i've been up early in anticipation of today, updating on this thread since about 9am this morning.........only to remember that as i'm in Kamphaeng Phet, Thailand that due to the time difference i started checking at 3am UK time....DOH!!!!! :greengrin

Maybe best to go for more drinks and check around 10pm onwards i think, :greengrin

[bingo70]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.bankrotodep.lt/Nemokios.php%0A%0A




http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.bankrotodep.lt/Nemokios.php%0A%0A

Is that ubig officially bankrupt then?

[BroxburnHibee]

Any chance the yams could force admin themselves after the season is over technically and let the lawyers argue about when the punishment is for?

[Sanger]

Is that ubig officially bankrupt then?

This is them being declared insolvent which all that is needed for the points deduction today. Bankruptcy would be legally agreed by a court and involves the appointment of a liquidator to see if there are any assets that can be sold to meet any of the insolvent company's obligations to creditors.

[Hermit Crab]

This is them being declared insolvent which all that is needed for the points deduction today. Bankruptcy would be legally agreed by a court and involves the appointment of a liquidator to see if there are any assets that can be sold to meet any of the insolvent company's obligations to creditors.

That's shoot yer load material that.

[Saorsa]

This is them being declared insolvent which all that is needed for the points deduction today. Bankruptcy would be legally agreed by a court and involves the appointment of a liquidator to see if there are any assets that can be sold to meet any of the insolvent company's obligations to creditors.Lets hope the clowns at the SPL see it that way. If they get the points deduction and get relegated I dinnae think I'll ever stop laughing.

[Gatecrasher]

Lets hope the clowns at the SPL see it that way. If they get the points deduction and get relegated I dinnae think I'll ever stop laughing.

its bordering on pish yer self material :agree:

[grunt]

This is them being declared insolvent which all that is needed for the points deduction today. Bankruptcy would be legally agreed by a court and involves the appointment of a liquidator to see if there are any assets that can be sold to meet any of the insolvent company's obligations to creditors.

It's the same thing that was posted last Thursday ?

[Hermit Crab]

its bordering on pish yer self material :agree:

Need to go out and buy a bumper packet of tena laddie for aw the pish.

[Saorsa]

its bordering on pish yer self material :agree:and when they get liquidated I think I'll laugh so hard my heid will fall off, day 2 days efter the final will dae.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The phrase "hollow victory" springs to mind...

[Sanger]

It's the same thing that was posted last Thursday ?

Yes no excuse for SPL not to have enough clear information.

[Gatecrasher]

Need to go out and buy a bumper packet of tena laddie for aw the pish.


and when they get liquidated I think I'll laugh so hard my heid will fall off, day 2 days efter the final will dae.

:rotflmao:

[Springbank]

The phrase "hollow victory" springs to mind...

I saw a ludicrous yam banner yesterday that said I-V in roman numerals.

Think that could be incorporated into the phrase

Hollow
Victory

Nice

[clerriehibs]

Only 50.08% now ... Come on hibees, we're losing the "let them die" initiative

[Jim44]

A curious story in the Scotsman today about the Hearts situation (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/john-robertson-confident-hearts-will-remain-in-spl-1-2936909). They have just printed verbatim what John Robertson said about it on Radio Scotland during the pre-match section on Saturday. Maybe just as well they didn't print the paranoid delusional ramblings of Allan


I say curious because it doesn't provide any new insight at all, or even take a guess as to what will happen.


Lazy journalism at it's worst. They've gone with the most positive Jambo spin they could find. The annoying thing is that he is probably right. The powers that be wlll be bending over backwards to keep them in the SPL as long as possible. Ironically, as I said earlier, this might be the worst case scenario for them.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Only 50.08% now ... Come on hibees, we're losing the "let them die" initiative

Maybe down to our unbeaten season against them and the recent win.
Which, IMO is pretty sad - just because they are on their knees and we would have a chance to beat them, some would rather they get off scott free from years of CHEATING.
Well not me, couldn't care less if there's never another derby. They are cheats & arrogant deluded one's at that. Good riddance to them.

WM is deid and I hope his side follow ASAP.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Just when the Jambos thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22593734

Massone (more than dodgy ex-Livi owner) has renewed his interest.

[Caversham Green]

A curious story in the Scotsman today about the Hearts situation (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/john-robertson-confident-hearts-will-remain-in-spl-1-2936909). They have just printed verbatim what John Robertson said about it on Radio Scotland during the pre-match section on Saturday. Maybe just as well they didn't print the paranoid delusional ramblings of Allan Preston.

:greengrin

I say curious because it doesn't provide any new insight at all, or even take a guess as to what will happen.

Robbo is fundamentally wrong throughout that article. He keeps saying UBIG are not insolvent when they have publicly declared that they are - you can't get more certain than that. He says they're still trading but having declared themselves insolvent thay can't be, aside from being illegal no-one is going to trade with them. He then says the SPL can't relegate them because no insolvency event has taken place, but that's one of the things they have to decide - whether UBIG's declaration of insolvency constitutes an insolvency event as defined by the SPL rules and there's a very strong argument for saying it does.

Wishful thinking from the rotund chap I think.

[bingo70]

Just when the Jambos thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22593734

Massone (more than dodgy ex-Livi owner) has renewed his interest.

Better option for them than dying though surely?

[#FromTheCapital]

Just when the Jambos thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22593734

Massone (more than dodgy ex-Livi owner) has renewed his interest.

Right now I'm sure they'd take that. It's either him or certain death.
He might be a dodgy ******* but at least he has some money unlike any other group interested in them.

[Hibercelona]

Just when the Jambos thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22593734

Massone (more than dodgy ex-Livi owner) has renewed his interest.

Great. Another dodgy vlaster to keep the circus act going for another 7 or 8 years. :rolleyes:

[Platinum Scotty]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/whatever-penalty-hearts-receive-will-surely-just-delay-the-inevitable.21127232

Started reading this thinking we had a sensible view from the West.....however he's of the view that they will sneak under todays meeting as nothing has been rubber stamped and any penalties will be next season........hope he is wrong

[Saorsa]

Right now I'm sure they'd take that. It's either him or certain death.
He might be a dodgy ******* but at least he has some money unlike any other group interested in them.One crook replaced by another, just like ***** attracts flies, what a grubby little club

[Saorsa]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/whatever-penalty-hearts-receive-will-surely-just-delay-the-inevitable.21127232

Started reading this thinking we had a sensible view from the West.....however he's of the view that they will sneak under todays meeting as nothing has been rubber stamped and any penalties will be next season........hope he is wrongThe penalty will be back dated tae the day the insolvency was declared.

[MacBean]

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised

[Platinum Scotty]

The penalty will be back dated tae the day the insolvency was declared.

:thumbsup:

[leithsansiro]

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised


I would severely doubt it. hat said, the SPL have been known to do stranger things. If there has to be a saviour for Hearts, please God let it be some financial pariah like him!

[Ozyhibby]

Would Massone pass the spl's 'fit and proper persons' tests? Given the state he left Livingston in, I'd be surprised

They may not be in the SPL if he doesn't get his finger out.
East of Scotland don't have a fit and proper rule so should be ok there.

[mjhibby]

Robbo is fundamentally wrong throughout that article. He keeps saying UBIG are not insolvent when they have publicly declared that they are - you can't get more certain than that. He says they're still trading but having declared themselves insolvent thay can't be, aside from being illegal no-one is going to trade with them. He then says the SPL can't relegate them because no insolvency event has taken place, but that's one of the things they have to decide - whether UBIG's declaration of insolvency constitutes an insolvency event as defined by the SPL rules and there's a very strong argument for saying it does.

Wishful thinking from the rotund chap I think.

All robbo and allan preston are trying to do is pleading for hertz to survive this season and take the 15 point hit next season.Facts dont come into it as you would expect as theyare as deluded as any other hertz fans.Its sad seeing robbo spout such drivel as i thought he had changed since becoming an honorary highlander.

[Andy74]

Robbo is fundamentally wrong throughout that article. He keeps saying UBIG are not insolvent when they have publicly declared that they are - you can't get more certain than that. He says they're still trading but having declared themselves insolvent thay can't be, aside from being illegal no-one is going to trade with them. He then says the SPL can't relegate them because no insolvency event has taken place, but that's one of the things they have to decide - whether UBIG's declaration of insolvency constitutes an insolvency event as defined by the SPL rules and there's a very strong argument for saying it does.

Wishful thinking from the rotund chap I think.

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.

[itslegaltender]

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.


Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.

[YehButNoBut]

If Hearts do survive, and that seems a big IF at present, I would much rather they got the points deduction next season, they would almost certainly be relegated with the team they would have left and we get the chance to give them 3 more doings and rip the pi sh out of them at the same time.

And if the gods are in our favour even better if we can do it as Cup winners.

[Saorsa]

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.


Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.The events in the weege today are just a side show, relegation before liquidation would just be the icing on the cake. The real end game is taking place a long way from the incompetence of Scottish fitba and a long way from where anybody cares about that grubby little club.

[Sanger]

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.

Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.

[Judas Iscariot]

If the SPL bottle it today and give them a point deduction for next season it wont be too bad. They would get an initial 15pt deduction, Yams would pile in with season ticket purchases and then with the Jambos going into admin meaning a further point penalty, there season would be ultimately worthless along with us extending our run against them.


Almost hoping this is the outcome today.

Never let them forget 20th May 2013.

They will bottle it, 100%...

***** bags :rolleyes:

[leithsansiro]

Anyone know what time the Lithuanian court will decide? And does anyone know how you do an "18 point deduction" hand sign that we could dupe famous folk into performing...:)

[Sylar]

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

[Billy Whizz]

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

You're right, but a perfect fit for our Gorgie Chums

[YehButNoBut]

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

Just the right chap for Hearts then. :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.

He'd fit right in at Hearts then.

[BigKev]

Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.

So all we need is the SPL to clarify this, then the points deduction is a certainty?

Sadly I can see them bottling it and then becoming a laughing stock in a few months time when that lot go to the wall.

Doncaster out, Hearts deid. Can't think of a much better scenario. Win Win.

[Saorsa]

Angelo Massone should be banned from ever partaking in anything football related ever again after what he did to Livingston.

A crook, a charlatan, a fraudster, a liar, a cheat and an absolutely vile **** of a human being.And the fitba authorities should be saying so before he even gets involved.

[SteveHFC]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/hearts-majority-owner-ubig-is-insolvent-bankruptcy-body-says.html

copied from pm board

[Caversham Green]

Can someone find the Lithuanian rules again that showed that this delcaration was one of a number of ways to become officially insolvent as it were? This waiting for a court thing I think is nonsense. Hopefully the SPL are aware of this.


Been in touch with the Bloomberg reporter in Lithuania and believe a court would have to ratify UBIG's self declared insolvency but importantly the official process has begun.

The definition of an insolvency event in the SPL rules include ceasing or forming an intention to cease business. That suggests that the formal legal process is unnecessary and I can't see how anyone could argue that a declaration of insolvency is not forming an intention to cease business.

[Paisley Hibby]

Any chance the yams could force admin themselves after the season is over technically and let the lawyers argue about when the punishment is for?

That would be a second "insolvency event" and would get a separate punishment - which would apply next season.

There is no doubt that what happened last week triggered the SPL rule on insolvency. The problem is this. Where it's the parent company and not the football club that is insolvent, the SPL don't HAVE to dock points. They can decide that what has happened will not cause problems for the integrity and continuity of the league and also that the relationship between UBIG and Hearts is not close enough to merit applying the penalty.

[Sanger]

Anyone know what time the Lithuanian court will decide? And does anyone know how you do an "18 point deduction" hand sign that we could dupe famous folk into performing...:)


No time or date but insolvency declaration a rubber stamping process unlike a bankruptcy. Important thing is tha the insolvency event/process has started.

[Paisley Hibby]

The definition of an insolvency event in the SPL rules include ceasing or forming an intention to cease business. That suggests that the formal legal process is unnecessary and I can't see how anyone could argue that a declaration of insolvency is not forming an intention to cease business.

That's also my reading of the SPL rules. However, as I've already said on other posts, this is not an automatic penalty situation. The SPL has the discretion not to impose the penalty because it's the parent company in the "group undertaking" (not the football club) that has suffered the "insolvency event".

[blackpoolhibs]

The way i see it is, if they don't relegate them, the SPL will have another summer of what we had with sevco. And the only difference is, they know they are going pop 100%, its just when?

They need to get them out the SPL now, and have all this bother further down the leagues away from their main product.

It will also let Dundee have a fair crack at trying to plan for next season.

[Caversham Green]

That's also my reading of the SPL rules. However, as I've already said on other posts, this is not an automatic penalty situation. The SPL has the discretion not to impose the penalty because it's the parent company in the "group undertaking" (not the football club) that has suffered the "insolvency event".

I agree. I think the answer to question 1 - has an insolvency event taken place? - has to be yes (and within the season, so the 18 point penalty would apply), the second question - is UBIG's involvement strong enough to warrant the penalty - is the critical one. The fact that HoMFC are at least £40m better off and UBIG the same amount worse off than they otherwise would have been should make the second answer yes as well IMO.

[HFC 0-7]

The way i see it is, if they don't relegate them, the SPL will have another summer of what we had with sevco. And the only difference is, they know they are going pop 100%, its just when?

They need to get them out the SPL now, and have all this bother further down the leagues away from their main product.

It will also let Dundee have a fair crack at trying to plan for next season.

I think the spl's worry at the moment is that they will go pop. They know they have to deduct points but they will know that if they relegate them, they will go pop and the spl will be blamed for them going pop.

they will be weighing up the options that give them the least grief. Let them away with it and have the circus through closed season and possibly start of next season, or,relegate them and be blamed for their demise. Personally I would be happy to relegate myself and be branded as the one that destroyed hearts!

[joe breezy]

If Hibs win the Scottish Cup it would be better if they stayed up for a season to rub their noses in it...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Only 50.08% now ... Come on hibees, we're losing the "let them die" initiative

Internet polls - there to be shot at. Yam infiltration and before you know it the evening news produce an unrepresentational? article.

[HFC 0-7]

If Hibs win the Scottish Cup it would be better if they stayed up for a season to rub their noses in it...

No it wouldn't, it would be better if all those jambos had witnessed their club going down the tubes, being broken up and sold then having to watch us beat Celtic and lift the cup knowing that their club, now dead, will never have their name on that cup ever again!

Years down the line some bitter jambo rambling to a young football fan "ah big team, heart of Midlothian, we pumped hibs 5-1 in the cup". Only for the young football fan to reply, "heart of Midlothian? Never heard of them". Leaving the bitter jambo wallowing in now almost extinct memories and pish ridden clothes.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the spl's worry at the moment is that they will go pop. They know they have to deduct points but they will know that if they relegate them, they will go pop and the spl will be blamed for them going pop.

they will be weighing up the options that give them the least grief. Let them away with it and have the circus through closed season and possibly start of next season, or,relegate them and be blamed for their demise. Personally I would be happy to relegate myself and be branded as the one that destroyed hearts!

Its sod all to do with the SPL, the reason they are in this mess is all down to Romanov. The rules are in place NOW, the folk in charge at the SFA have the tools to make this disappear from their main product.

Failure to do so will have the media all over this again, and when they finally get liquidated, the mess it will cause will be exactly like last season.

And if that happens mid season we will have a league with 11 clubs in it.Can you imagine the trouble that will cause?

The league will be a bigger shambles that our media and support portray it now.

Get them tae **** now, the rules are there in black and white, its the best and right option.

[Sylar]

You're right, but a perfect fit for our Gorgie Chums


Just the right chap for Hearts then. :agree:


He'd fit right in at Hearts then.

Great minds gentlemen, great minds :greengrin

[HFC 0-7]

Its sod all to do with the SPL, the reason they are in this mess is all down to Romanov. The rules are in place NOW, the folk in charge at the SFA have the tools to make this disappear from their main product.

Failure to do so will have the media all over this again, and when they finally get liquidated, the mess it will cause will be exactly like last season.

And if that happens mid season we will have a league with 11 clubs in it.Can you imagine the trouble that will cause?

The league will be a bigger shambles that our media and support portray it now.

Get them tae **** now, the rules are there in black and white, its the best and right option.

I know it's sod all to do with the spl, but all the jambos, hearts media, and all the rangers journous out there that want the spl painted in a bad light will blame the spl.

[blackpoolhibs]

I know it's sod all to do with the spl, but all the jambos, hearts media, and all the rangers journous out there that want the spl painted in a bad light will blame the spl.

The sevco media will only paint the SPL in a bad light should they not hammer Hearts. Hearts and all the jambos have been squealing like pigs since Romanov came to the club, why are you bothered about that? :confused:

[HFC 0-7]

The sevco media will only paint the SPL in a bad light should they not hammer Hearts. Hearts and all the jambos have been squealing like pigs since Romanov came to the club, why are you bothered about that? :confused:

PICK am not bothered by it, what I am bothered about is the spl and there inability to deal with things properly. I was just putting it out there that the spl don't like confrontation and usually go down the avenue of least resistance.

[Ozyhibby]

If Hibs win the Scottish Cup it would be better if they stayed up for a season to rub their noses in it...

I won't need them in the SPL for that.

[Gus Fring]

Whatever happens today is not good news for Hearts even if it is spun as such. If no points penalty is applied today the Yams will see this as a victory and it isn't. I know we keep saying it but Hearts really aren't able to survive. If they stay in the SPL they're relative dominance will be non-existent.

[Off the bar]

"@BBCBMcLauchlin: SPL board meeting to discuss Hearts situation underway at Hampden #bbcsportscot"

[Gus Fring]

As a side note the current SPL Board is made up of

Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman)
Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive)
Eric Riley (Celtic FC)
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC)
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen FC)
Michael Johnston (Kilmarnock FC)

How do we think each of them is going to feel about how Hearts have behaved?

[MyJo]

"@BBCBMcLauchlin: SPL board meeting to discuss Hearts situation underway at Hampden #bbcsportscot"




:hyper:

[#FromTheCapital]

May not be a decison today according to STV http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226034-spl-board-meet-to-discuss-hearts-fate-following-parent-company-insolvency/

[MB62]

IMO, there will be no decision made today on the Yams plight. All we will get is a statement from the SPL saying that no decision was made and cannot be made until they are in possession of the full facts (which might be never).

Sporting integrity was the catch phrase banded about with Oldco and is still every bit as relevant today, but doubt we will hear any mention of it.

[jodjam]

As a side note the current SPL Board is made up of

Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman)
Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive)
Eric Riley (Celtic FC)
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC)
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen FC)
Michael Johnston (Kilmarnock FC)

How do we think each of them is going to feel about how Hearts have behaved?

The chairman is "one of our own" ;)

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The chairman is "one of our own" ;)

Who has the casting vote.... ;)

[Paisley Hibby]

As a side note the current SPL Board is made up of

Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman)
Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive)
Eric Riley (Celtic FC)
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC)
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen FC)
Michael Johnston (Kilmarnock FC)

How do we think each of them is going to feel about how Hearts have behaved?

As they don't HAVE to dock points then I think their first consideration will be how much money will my club lose if they go down? And that's what will probably decide the outome.

[Bristolhibby]

The Huns and their media will be in uproar if Hearts survive.

They very much see Hearts situation as the same as theirs (even if its not), and they will want a similar "lack of compassion" applied.

The SPL have got to realise that if the deductions are not applied now there is a genuine possibility that Hearts will fold mid season. Then instead of being a SFL plroblem it will remain an SPL problem.

Better the swift knife stroke now than a long and uncertain death next season.

Also if I were a Jambo I wouldn't want to get relegated the season they The The Rangers were in the same league, as it would mean two years (if they survive) in Div 1.

J

[Mikey]

May not be a decison today according to STV http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226034-spl-board-meet-to-discuss-hearts-fate-following-parent-company-insolvency/

Can't really see how they could interpret this any other way than what it says on the tin.........

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/hearts-majority-owner-ubig-is-insolvent-bankruptcy-body-says.html

[HibeeMG]

The Huns and their media will be in uproar if Hearts survive.

They very much see Hearts situation as the same as theirs (even if its not), and they will want a similar "lack of compassion" applied.

The SPL have got to realise that if the deductions are not applied now there is a genuine possibility that Hearts will fold mid season. Then instead of being a SFL plroblem it will remain an SPL problem.

Better the swift knife stroke now than a long and uncertain death next season.

Also if I were a Jambo I wouldn't want to get relegated the season they The The Rangers were in the same league, as it would mean two years (if they survive) in Div 1.

J

A couple of things to note with this is that it's looking likely that the SPL and SFL will have merged so the problem won't really be shifted.

Also, if Hearts and The Rangers are in the Divison 1 together there will probably be play-offs for a second promotion spot so they would still have a chance to get promoted.

That's if they get that far of course.

[Gus Fring]

As they don't HAVE to dock points then I think their first consideration will be how much money will my club lose if they go down? And that's what will probably decide the outome.

What about how much money has been lost by there financial doping in the last 8 years? Lost european places? Shorter cup runs? Remember, most of these same chairman (Kilmarnock abstained) stood shoulder to shoulder and blocked Newco's entry into the SPL despite all the talk of how much money that decision would lose.

[bingo70]

IMO, there will be no decision made today on the Yams plight. All we will get is a statement from the SPL saying that no decision was made and cannot be made until they are in possession of the full facts (which might be be never).

Sporting integrity was the catch phrase banded about with Oldco and is still every bit as relevant today, but doubt we will hear any mention of it.

They can't fob it off forever as they won't want the same situation as last season, it may be that they can't get everyone to agree on a decision today but it won't be long, certainly in the next few days I'd have thought

[Benny Brazil]

As a side note the current SPL Board is made up of

Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman)
Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive)
Eric Riley (Celtic FC)
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC)
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen FC)
Michael Johnston (Kilmarnock FC)

How do we think each of them is going to feel about how Hearts have behaved?

Michael Johnston - he of the Sevco saga who vocally and publically defended them

[robinp]

Michael Johnston - he of the Sevco saga who vocally and publically defended them

That's because Sevco, like Celtic, bring the boys to town and killie deck out 2 whole stands to accommodate the orks! £££££

[sambajustice]

There's a very strong chance they could go under so the question is...

Is it easier to relegate them now and save any potential hassle through the summer in the SPL or keep them in and the SPL cross their fingers they dont go pop?

if they stayed in the league and then went bust a week or two before the season started it would throw the game into complete disarray!

Also, how bad does it look for Scottish football when one of the top flight clubs starts the season on -15 points!! ??

[Caversham Green]

The Huns and their media will be in uproar if Hearts survive.

They very much see Hearts situation as the same as theirs (even if its not), and they will want a similar "lack of compassion" applied.

The SPL have got to realise that if the deductions are not applied now there is a genuine possibility that Hearts will fold mid season. Then instead of being a SFL plroblem it will remain an SPL problem.

Better the swift knife stroke now than a long and uncertain death next season.

Also if I were a Jambo I wouldn't want to get relegated the season they The The Rangers were in the same league, as it would mean two years (if they survive) in Div 1.

J

One of the aspects they are required to consider according to Rule A6.12 is the continuity of the league. Hearts are more likely than not to suffer their own insolvency event before the end of next season (in fact they might not last the week) and there's a strong possibility that they would not be able to fulfil their fixtures - they declared themselves at risk of that early in the season that's just ended. It would be irresponsible of the board to ignore that requirement under the current circumstances.

[steakbake]

May not be a decison today according to STV http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226034-spl-board-meet-to-discuss-hearts-fate-following-parent-company-insolvency/

If it gets backdated to Thursday - the date of the apparent insolvency event - then there will be one less derby in the SPL next year ;-) - that's about as much as we know!

The Hearts defence seems ropey - we've not needed the funds of our parent company since Feb 2012 surely doesn't bare up to scrutiny. They are still the parent company whether or not funds have been released. There is also very clear evidence that without those funds, they are unable to pay their players, staff, suppliers etc not to mention their tax dues.

[Thecat23]

Have a look on Kickback at the thread "A Bit Of Dignity". Some of the quotes are superb. According to some, the yams have done nothing wrong. It's was ok to piss money against a wall until its dry then it's someone's fault. What that mob fail to see or admit is, Hearts agreed to the new SPL rules and how if a parent company goes bust the club should then be deducted points. There's even some roaster who keeps saying "nothing will happen" followed by that smug face smiley. How funny is it going to be if they drop down. In fact I'll be posting that same smug face on here everyday in tribute to that fud. :D

[Gus Fring]

One of the aspects they are required to consider according to Rule A6.12 is the continuity of the league. Hearts are more likely than not to suffer their own insolvency event before the end of next season (in fact they might not last the week) and there's a strong possibility that they would not be able to fulfil their fixtures - they declared themselves at risk of that early in the season that's just ended. It would be irresponsible of the board to ignore that requirement under the current circumstances.

:agree:

For all we know the SPL are looking at this as an absolute gift. There has been uncertainty over Hearts future for months (if not years) and now they've been handed a solution. I still maintain that if the board weren't going to do anything they would have just said so on Thursday. A simple "UBIG is seperate enough from Hearts that no action is needed and that's our decision" would have been sufficient.

The fact the SPL ARE looking into this and took the weekend to make a decision (possibly longer) is a good thing. The SPL can get hammered by Hearts if they get this decision wrong but nobody can do anything if they had just fobbed us all off.

[Matty_Jack04]

If it gets backdated to Thursday - the date of the apparent insolvency event - then there will be one less derby in the SPL next year ;-) - that's about as much as we know!

The Hearts defence seems ropey - we've not needed the funds of our parent company since Feb 2012 surely doesn't bare up to scrutiny. They are still the parent company whether or not funds have been released. There is also very clear evidence that without those funds, they are unable to pay their players, staff, suppliers etc not to mention their tax dues.

They may not have needed ubig since feb 2012 but they've needed hand outs from fans above and beyond usual practices, there screwed and the SPL must do what it can to avoid another summer like last year and avoid another unprepared team gaining entry to the SPL.

[MB62]

There's a very strong chance they could go under so the question is...

Is it easier to relegate them now and save any potential hassle through the summer in the SPL or keep them in and the SPL cross their fingers they dont go pop?

if they stayed in the league and then went bust a week or two before the season started it would throw the game into complete disarray!
Also, how bad does it look for Scottish football when one of the top flight clubs starts the season on -15 points!! ??

And this has to be given serious consideration by the SPL board as it is a distinct possibility they will go pop. More damage could be done to the SPL by not punishing them now, as they deserve, as saving them could just be delaying the inevitable and cause bigger problems later.

[Saorsa]

Can't really see how they could interpret this any other way than what it says on the tin.........

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/hearts-majority-owner-ubig-is-insolvent-bankruptcy-body-says.html:agree:


Even if it not announced today the points deduction must be back dated tae the day UBIG declared themselves insolvent. As I said in another thread, the end game is being played out a long way from the incompetence of Scottish fitba and a long way away form anybody who gives a **** about that grubby little club and they will be gone. Any decision other than an 18 point deduction and the removal of that club from the top division would be folly and would only serve tae highlight once again the incompetence of the people running the game.

Will they really be daft enough tae allow a team that has nae chance of completing the season ahead tae compete at the top end. :hmmm: If they do and it happens the whole lot of them must go, the game cannae take another farce like that of the previous summer.

[Mikey]

:agree:


Even if it not announced today the points deduction must be back dated tae the day UBIG declared themselves insolvent. As I said in another thread, the end game is being played out a long way from the incompetence of Scottish fitba and a long way away form anybody who gives a **** about that grubby little club and they will be gone. Any decision other than an 18 point deduction and the removal of that club from the top division would be folly and would only serve tae highlight once again the incompetence of the people running the game.

Will they really be daft enough tae allow a team that has nae chance of completing the season ahead tae compete at the top end. :hmmm: If they do and it happens the whole lot of them must go, the game cannae take another farce like that of the previous summer.

Definitely :agree:

[Caversham Green]

If it gets backdated to Thursday - the date of the apparent insolvency event - then there will be one less derby in the SPL next year ;-) - that's about as much as we know!

The Hearts defence seems ropey - we've not needed the funds of our parent company since Feb 2012 surely doesn't bare up to scrutiny. They are still the parent company whether or not funds have been released. There is also very clear evidence that without those funds, they are unable to pay their players, staff, suppliers etc not to mention their tax dues.

Not just that, they have needed funds from UBIG. The debt owed to UBIG was due to be repaid by December 2012. According to the accounts the loan was extended until March 2015 - that is effectively a new loan and is without doubt significant financial support. HoMFC were insolvent in December 2012 and their insolvency was deferred by the extension of a loan that UBIG could not afford to make in March 2013.

[Scorrie]

There's a very strong chance they could go under so the question is...

Is it easier to relegate them now and save any potential hassle through the summer in the SPL or keep them in and the SPL cross their fingers they dont go pop?

if they stayed in the league and then went bust a week or two before the season started it would throw the game into complete disarray!

Also, how bad does it look for Scottish football when one of the top flight clubs starts the season on -15 points!! ??

These are serious questions. Also bear in mind how Dundee FC are treated. Promoted last year almost at the last minute with no time to really prepare for the SPL and they could be reprieved this year for the same reason (i.e. clubs going pop). They need an early decision as well to help them at least try to be competitive next season if they are not to be relegated this season The SPL cannot repeat the mess of last summer again, surely?

[brydekirk]

Need to go out and buy a bumper packet of tena laddie for aw the pish.

Just sit on Lockie's face and save yourself a few quid !

[weonlywon6-2]

They may not have needed ubig since feb 2012 but they've needed hand outs from fans above and beyond usual practices, there screwed and the SPL must do what it can to avoid another summer like last year and avoid another unprepared team gaining entry to the SPL.

Would seem all the money the fans put in recently may have disappeared,imagine ripping of your own fans.the players should take a long look at themselves by expecting fans to pay their crazy wages

[Andy74]

Would seem all the money the fans put in recently may have disappeared,imagine ripping of your own fans.the players should take a long look at themselves by expecting fans to pay their crazy wages

It was always quite clear it was needed just to meet usual costs so it hasn't really disappeared, it's just been used.

[matty_f]

It was always quite clear it was needed just to meet usual costs so it hasn't really disappeared, it's just been used.

Not quite, the share prospectus claimed that the funds raised were for youth development, among other things.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Would seem all the money the fans put in recently may have disappeared,imagine ripping of your own fans.the players should take a long look at themselves by expecting fans to pay their crazy wages

Rudi Skacel - Probably the highest paid barman in the world ;)

Rudi Skacel brought the Jambos to their knees !

[Saorsa]

Not quite, the share prospectus claimed that the funds raised were for youth development, among other things.And that's were it's gone surely? Haven't you noticed that since that share issue at the end of last year they've developed the best young players in Scotland?




:faf:

[matty_f]

And that's were it's gone surely? Haven't you noticed that since that share issue at the end of last year they've developed the best young players in Scotland?




:faf:
:hilarious

[Mac]

Not quite, the share prospectus claimed that the funds raised were for youth development, among other things.

That was the initial sales pitch to the hoardes, once the HMRC debts became public knowledge Fedotovas(sp) then admitted the money would be used for day to day running of the club, thinks it is shocking that not one person has questioned where the share money is and why not 1 person has recieved their certificate, basically in any other busienss they would be facing a fraud investigation.

[Saorsa]

That was the initial sales pitch to the hoardes, once the HMRC debts became public knowledge Fedotovas(sp) then admitted the money would be used for day to day running of the club, thinks it is shocking that not one person has questioned where the share money is and why not 1 person has recieved their certificate, basically in any other busienss they would be facing a fraud investigation.Need tae get Barry Anderson on the case, good bit of investigative journalism needed.

If I were tae a guess where the dosh went I'd look in Vlad's trouser pocket. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Need tae get Barry Anderson on the case, good bit of investigative journalism needed.

Why? Does Barry know a journalist or something? :rolleyes:

[Deek01]

Need tae get Barry Anderson on the case, good bit of investigative journalism needed.

Sure he'd love to but it's just all very complex :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Need tae get Barry Anderson on the case, good bit of investigative journalism needed.

He'd love to do it but he is currently investigating how his pencil got up his erse so he has nothing to write with at the moment.

[Skanko79]

what time can we expect a decission today?

[Kaiser1962]

They may not have needed ubig since feb 2012 but they've needed hand outs from fans above and beyond usual practices, there screwed and the SPL must do what it can to avoid another summer like last year and avoid another unprepared team gaining entry to the SPL.

I think they have needed UBIG support but didnt get it because UBIG were in no position to provide it. More a case of could not rather than would not. Had they been able to continue robbing the Lithuanian savers then there would have been no share issue.