Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[poolman]

Steady now.

:wink:


Don't be unfair to our pink friends now.

It was them who made us win last night :wink:

Taken from a pinkoid on Yakbak

4-0 now, looks like we shattered Motherwell last week and they've not recovered yet.

[Golden Bear]

Don't be unfair to our pink friends now.

It was them who made us win last night :wink:

Taken from a pinkoid on Yakbak

4-0 now, looks like we shattered Motherwell last week and they've not recovered yet.

Ah well at least they can still have a joke in times of adversity.

:smug:

[macca70]

They might have had the upper hand in derbies and trophies in recent years but at what cost?

They might have won 5-1 in the biggest derby in our history but they've blatantly been cheating, whilst teams like Hibs have been living with in their means.

Can the last man out switch off the lights!!

[Gatecrasher]

They might have had the upper hand in derbies and trophies in recent years but at what cost?

They might have won 5-1 in the biggest derby in our history but they've blatantly been cheating, whilst teams like Hibs have been living with in their means.

Can the last man out switch off the lights!!
Tainted Titles :greengrin

[whiskyhibby]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.........

The doomsday clock is ticking

[Jack Hackett]

Still commited to a new super-dooper stadium tho :faf:

Stadium development

26.10.2012
The Directors of Hearts are committed to the development of a state-of-the-art football stadium befitting of a top European club.
The Directors consider that regular qualification by the team for European competitions is very important to the future of the club. In addition the Directors believe that developing a larger stadium with purpose-built facilities to meet the modern day supporter's expectations is key to the club's development.
Presently, while no decision has been made to leave Tynecastle, the club is investigating opportunities that could provide a viable alternative to Hearts' current home. Following consultation with supporters
ently developing a plan which is designed to provide Hearts with a secure and modern football home for generations to come. The current plans for a new stadium are based on a new facility with a capacity between 20,000 and 30,000 on the west side of Edinburgh and within a short distance from the existing Tynecastle. Regular consultation will be maintained with all stakeholders including shareholders and supporters prior to any decision being taken.
The proceeds of this share offer will not contribute directly to this ongoing work, however it is an important strategic aim of the current Board and is seen as a valuable opportunity in the long-term development and ultimate value of the business.


:rolleyes:




I'm surprised they haven't gone with the 'Development will begin in the 2nd half of the season, so those who don't have them had better hurry up and buy half-season tickets in order to ensure seats in the reduced capacity stadium, while the work is carried out' line they used a few years back

:faf:

[Hermit Crab]

We're having a party when Hearts die :thumbsup:

Jelly and ice cream too?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Don't be unfair to our pink friends now.

It was them who made us win last night :wink:

Taken from a pinkoid on Yakbak

4-0 now, looks like we shattered Motherwell last week and they've not recovered yet.

It's a fair point really, I can't see how any team could possibly recover from a mauling by McGlynn's magyars.

[fatbloke]

Just been told that because I have a thousand shares in Hibernian FC I cannot buy any from Heart of Midlothian FC. If correct I am gutted. I really really did want to play my part in saving such a glorious organisation like the Hertz. :fibber: ?

[PatHead]

Looks like it is sinking home on kickback or an undercover Hibby is telling them as it is.

"The thing is, Hearts are not a Rangers, Celtic or Man U.

We do not have a huge fan base.

When The Pieman tried this, it raised about a quarter of a million if memory serves me correctly.

The fact the share issue is blatantly being used to cover the tax bill will have a negative effect.

We may have had 25,000 fans at Hampden in May means absolutely nothing. We have a regular attendance of about 11,000 fans. £100 of each of them will not cover what's required. Not everyone can afford this. Times are tough. Mortgages, fuel, feeding the family, heating and lighting are all on the increase. Wages are not keeping up with the increases.

If we had a massive fan base, I would understand this but we don't.

This tax bill could be the nail in the coffin for the club. The next late payment of wages will result in a points deduction. They know the transfer embargo means nothing. It's the next step on the pyramid. A points deduction will leave us in a relegation dogfight.

This will also lead to a fire sale in January. The only problem is that our most saleable assets are out of contract next summer. Any buyer will not pay top dollar for them.

I can't see how the share issue will work and have a sense of foreboding about this"

Maybe Hobonomics aren't pure c%%p after all!

[Winston Ingram]

Looks like it is sinking home on kickback or an undercover Hibby is telling them as it is.

"The thing is, Hearts are not a Rangers, Celtic or Man U.

We do not have a huge fan base.

When The Pieman tried this, it raised about a quarter of a million if memory serves me correctly.

The fact the share issue is blatantly being used to cover the tax bill will have a negative effect.

We may have had 25,000 fans at Hampden in May means absolutely nothing. We have a regular attendance of about 11,000 fans. £100 of each of them will not cover what's required. Not everyone can afford this. Times are tough. Mortgages, fuel, feeding the family, heating and lighting are all on the increase. Wages are not keeping up with the increases.

If we had a massive fan base, I would understand this but we don't.

This tax bill could be the nail in the coffin for the club. The next late payment of wages will result in a points deduction. They know the transfer embargo means nothing. It's the next step on the pyramid. A points deduction will leave us in a relegation dogfight.

This will also lead to a fire sale in January. The only problem is that our most saleable assets are out of contract next summer. Any buyer will not pay top dollar for them.

I can't see how the share issue will work and have a sense of foreboding about this"

Maybe Hobonomics aren't pure c%%p after all!

My god. A Yam wi a bit o sense. Bet he's getting dogs abuse over there:greengrin :brokenyam:

[Lucius Apuleius]

Contrary to popular belief, there are some decent ones you know. Misguided definitely but fundamentally decent people. I was playing poker online with one yesterday and he also is an expat. He is absolutely devestated at this and has been predicting it for a long time. Hard not to feel sorry for him but so far I am managing. :greengrin

[Seveno]

Incredible that the truth is finally beginning to dawn on the Jambos. I really enjoyed reading Kickback today. :greengrin

[Aldo]

Who are they going to get to build this super dooper Stadium??? Nae company will touch them.

Maybe Lego or nae that's just being silly.

I cannot wait till the taxman comes along and nails the door shut.

[DaveF]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

[hibs0666]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

I would ignore his thoughts. The only things that wee twonk is good at these days is munching pies.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

He was citing the example of Celtic loaning a player to Inverness Caley Thistle.

I must have missed the announcement of Celtic taking financial control of Inverness Caley Thistle.

:wink:

[bingo70]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

I would guess the nice folk at HMRC would be more likely to know that than a failed ex SPL manager and they seem to think Hertz have a case to answer to so i'm happy to go with them.

[DaveF]

He was citing the example of Celtic loaning a player to Inverness Caley Thistle.

I must have missed the announcement of Celtic taking financial control of Inverness Caley Thistle.

:wink:

Hey, I know as much about Tax as yer average yam - **** all :greengrin

[Kato]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

I think the amount of loans and that the same person owned both clubs makes this unlike "any other loan deal". It's why HMRC have brought it this far. It just looks so dodgy.

[Spike Mandela]

I would guess the nice folk at HMRC would be more likely to know that than a failed ex SPL manager and they seem to think Hertz have a case to answer to so i'm happy to go with them.

Hearts fans can rest easy that they have the forensic financial minds of John Robertson and Allan Preston in their corner much like Billy Dodds' helpful proclaimations on the EBT scandal.

[BSEJVT]

Hey, I know as much about Tax as yer average yam - **** all :greengrin

I would like them to hang on a few years yet

Any decent players they have will be off by the seasons end anyway

I would like to see a few years of these share issues ripping yet more cash out the believers as their circumstances and results become evermore desparate and their club so tainted that by the time the final axe falls they are too apathetic to even care.

Bring it on

[Kato]

He was citing the example of Celtic loaning a player to Inverness Caley Thistle.



Yeah cos there are great similarities between that single deal and Vlad's "football pyramid".

http://stevegutzlerblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/human-pyramid.jpg


I think HMRC are gonna cook their goose. They are admirably tenacious.

[HoboHarry]

I would like them to hang on a few years yet

Any decent players they have will be off by the seasons end anyway

I would like to see a few years of these share issues ripping yet more cash out the believers as their circumstances and results become evermore desparate and their club so tainted that by the time the final axe falls they are too apathetic to even care.

Bring it on
I would agree that I don't want them going under yet. Whilst true that they have held the upper hand and gave us a doing in May, everything currently points to them having had their day in the sun. It's over for them. Keep them going for three or four years, broke, crap on a lesser financial footing than us, and hopefully a relegation in their final season for good measure. It's up to the management at Hibs to keep projecting us forward and laughing at them as we look backwards at them fading into the distance.

One more thing, I don't which players it would be, but how about cherry-picking the best of their U20's in January?

[Seveno]

Is there any enterprising scarf manufacturer out there that will produce a half Hibs/ half HMRC scarf ? :wink:

[One Day Soon]

They might have had the upper hand in derbies and trophies in recent years but at what cost?

They might have won 5-1 in the biggest derby in our history but they've blatantly been cheating, whilst teams like Hibs have been living with in their means.

Can the last man out switch off the lights!!


They might have won 5-1 in the biggest derby in our history but they've blatantly been cheating, whilst teams like Hibs have been living with in their means.

Can the last man out switch off the lights!![/QUOTE]


No.


They might have won 5-1 in the biggest derby in our history but they've blatantly been cheating, whilst teams like Hibs have been living with in their means.

Can the last man out switch off the lights!![/QUOTE]


The biggest derby in our history took place on New Years Day 1973. Hibernian thrashed them 7-0 on their own ground.

If they want to take that title from us they need to either neutralise it by beating us 7-0 at Easter Road or they need to beat us 8-0 or more on any other ground.

As to blatantly cheating, it is utterly indisputable that they are in the same category as Glasgow Rangers were before they ceased to exist - ie participating in league and cup competitions at a financial level they could not afford. They may well end up paying the same price which would be the death of their club. At that stage they could go and support some other made-up construct in the 3rd Division purporting to be Hearts by virtue of throwing a version of that name into its title. However, like Rangers, this will not be the same club. It will be stripped of its history, its honour and its honours. But then all of that has already been achieved anyway by transforming them into a zombie shell of what used to be an Edinburgh and Scottish club.

Think of them this way - they are Scottish Football's version of a low level Lance Armstrong. Their financial steroids are finally taking the inevitable toll on the weakened leftover of their club's walking corpse. One way or another the next step from the football intensive care ward they currently inhabit goes to either death or a permanently chronic condition. Death speaks for itself. The chronic condition involves losing their stadium at the very least.

Now that they are being found out the past looks like a rather sick joke.

Dig in Hibbies, this is going to be a vast feast as they continue to disintegrate and the party is one where they certainly WON'T be painting anything Maroon.

[Mikey]

Is there any enterprising scarf manufacturer out there that will produce a half Hibs/ half HMRC scarf ? :wink:

:greengrin

[Hainan Hibs]

The biggest derby in our history took place on New Years Day 1973. Hibernian thrashed them 7-0 on their own ground.

If they want to take that title from us they need to either neutralise it by beating us 7-0 at Easter Road or they need to beat us 8-0 or more on any other ground.



Pish.

[HibeeN]

Pish.

Coming from someone from a generation who wasn't there to experience that game, I have to agree. 7-0 happened a long time ago and there is a huge section of the Hibs support who weren't even born then - I wasn't, and not being around at the time of that game I can't really say that it means that much to me - I would have much rather won the Scottish Cup against them than win a league game by a large margin.

Obviously for folk that were there and have those memories then it still sticks in the mind, but unfortunately for a lot of Hibs fans the biggest derby was the one back in May. I'm not trying to say that the 7-0 game wasn't a great moment in Hibs history, but it happened almost 20 years before I was even born so the fact that it happened is little consolation for me personally.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Anyhow, I notice Heart of Midlothian (HM) are playing Ross County (RC) today.

Maybe it's just me.

:wink:

[Jones28]

Anyhow, I notice Heart of Midlothian (HM) are playing Ross County (RC) today.

Maybe it's just me.

:wink:

Well, Ross county are winning so hopefully a sign of things to come! ;)

[Spike Mandela]

Anyhow, I notice Heart of Midlothian (HM) are playing Ross County (RC) today.

Maybe it's just me.

:wink:

:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin nice spot:aok:

[Mikey]

I haven't read back so apologies if already raised.

Will Campbell Ogilvie be rolled out to explain the thinking behind their tax dodge? He was heavily involved at the time.

Once Hearts have been dealt with, I wonder if he'd fancy a job at Celtic? :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

What was Hearts points total last season as new rules would be a third of that total in the case of an insolvency event?

[Ozyhibby]

They would lose 17 points

[Spike Mandela]

They would lose 17 points


Cheers. Mibbe Dundee still have a fighting chance.:greengrin

[Kato]

I haven't read back so apologies if already raised.

Will Campbell Ogilvie be rolled out to explain the thinking behind their tax dodge? He was heavily involved at the time.

Once Hearts have been dealt with, I wonder if he'd fancy a job at Celtic? :greengrin


It's an 11 day hearing between HMRC and HoMoFC. Plenty time to speak to/interrogate all parties involved.

11 days of all the wrong headlines for the Jumblies coming up.

[#FromTheCapital]

Cheers. Mibbe Dundee still have a fighting chance.:greengrin

It's a bit ironic that Dundee of all teams are reaping the benefits of severely mismanaged teams going down the ****ter

[--------]

Coming from someone from a generation who wasn't there to experience that game, I have to agree. 7-0 happened a long time ago and there is a huge section of the Hibs support who weren't even born then - I wasn't, and not being around at the time of that game I can't really say that it means that much to me - I would have much rather won the Scottish Cup against them than win a league game by a large margin.

Obviously for folk that were there and have those memories then it still sticks in the mind, but unfortunately for a lot of Hibs fans the biggest derby was the one back in May. I'm not trying to say that the 7-0 game wasn't a great moment in Hibs history, but it happened almost 20 years before I was even born so the fact that it happened is little consolation for me personally.


This. I was around for the 7-0 and the 6-2, and I can remember some other real tankings we handed them.

But April 19th - a date which willl live in infamy, to quote some American bloke - is the one that counts right now.

I want to see them DEAD.

[Spike Mandela]

It's a bit ironic that Dundee of all teams are reaping the benefits of severely mismanaged teams going down the ****ter

Scottish football is a murky business:agree:

[grunt]

But April 19th - a date which willl live in infamy, to quote some American bloke - is the one that counts right now.


What happened on April 19th?

[Jack Hackett]

This. I was around for the 7-0 and the 6-2, and I can remember some other real tankings we handed them. But April 19th - a date which willl live in infamy, to quote some American bloke - is the one that counts right now. I want to see them DEAD.

:agree:

[Chibs]

That date has special signifigance to many fans who were their at the time.
The irony of then and now is that the very team who tried to kill us is now in their death throes.
HAPPY HAPPY ******G DAYS

[Saorsa]

I want to see them DEAD.This, 100%:top marks

I prefer deid tae dead though :wink:

[One Day Soon]

Pish.

Given your propensity to be consistently and spectaculary wrong on things political I will take your one-word critique of my posting to be a very reassuring confirmation that I was entirely correct.

[Bostonhibby]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.

He would know, he looks like a qualified tax accountant and taxation barrister who specialises in pan european tax regimes.

Either that or a fat twat in a maroon jacket hoping for the best, either way if you sound like you know what you are talking about it's bound to be okay, after all in these recessionary times I cannae see HMRC spending all that time and legal fees when they could have just asked Robbo to explain it all to them.

[--------]

What happened on April 19th?


DOH! I've changed it. I'm even blankin out the stinkin date!

I will not be whole again until Hearts and all who sail in them are DEAD.

And can I PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get to do the funeral?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What happened on April 19th?

Anybody?

[Mikey]

And can I PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get to do the funeral?

You can take it :greengrin

[Pete]

Pish.

Disagree. ODS is spot on.

There was cheating on two levels on final day, Thomson and the fact hearts have been playing players they couldn't really afford.
Feel free to wallow in defeat but you should open your eyes to the circumstances and the bigger picture.
Seven nil was achieved without any help and remains the iconic derby.

The final victory is tainted...never let them forget.

They only had twelve men.

[--------]

Fat Robbo on sportsound seemed confident enough that the yams situation is just like any other loan deal and that any tax burden would fall to Kaunas and not Hertz.

No idea if he is spraffing more in hope than anything else, but I have my fingers crossed for a HMRC victory on this one.


I think the Fat Balloon may be confusing Tax Avoidance - legal - with Tax Evasion - illegal.

This is NOT the image of a top-level Tax Consultant.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01463/robbo_1463186a.jpg

[One Day Soon]

This. I was around for the 7-0 and the 6-2, and I can remember some other real tankings we handed them.

But April 19th - a date which willl live in infamy, to quote some American bloke - is the one that counts right now.

I want to see them DEAD.


Yes, their extinction is appealing.

However I stand by my position. The cup final was A win, not THE win. But then I'm not in favour of the sort of mentality that chooses as the best tunes and bands of all time the ones people can remember from the last three or four years. A longer perspective is better.

I'll see their referee-assisted, financial steroid-bought cup win and then raise it both the 7-0 AND the magnificent 0-0 draw on 9th November 1985 which cost them the single point that would otherwise have won them the League in season 1985-1986. Still, Mita been eh?

[HONG KONG PHOOEY]

Never thought that they would go out of business . But after reading all the info on their share info and tax case there is only one get out clause - if mad vlad bails them out. This will not happen so bye bye hearts as far as I can see.

[One Day Soon]

I think the Fat Balloon may be confusing Tax Avoidance - legal - with Tax Evasion - illegal.

This is NOT the image of a top-level Tax Consultant.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01463/robbo_1463186a.jpg


:top marks

Unless of course it is a top level tax accountant enduring a painful enforced enema from behind, just out of picture. Which is funny, because a painful enforced financial enema is exactly what that broke joke of a club is about to endure.

[Mikey]

I think the Fat Balloon may be confusing Tax Avoidance - legal - with Tax Evasion - illegal.

This is NOT the image of a top-level Tax Consultant.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01463/robbo_1463186a.jpg

There could well be a top level tax consultant in there, he looks heavily pregnant to me.

Could even be triplets.

[jonty]

There could well be a top level tax consultant in there, he looks heavily pregnant to me.

Could even be triplets.
Do top level tax consultants carry their unborn in their noses?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Anybody?

The suspense is killing me!

[lapsedhibee]

I'll see their referee-assisted, financial steroid-bought cup win and then raise it both the 7-0 AND the magnificent 0-0 draw on 9th November 1985 which cost them the single point that would otherwise have won them the League in season 1985-1986.

Absolutely disgraceful that you should bring up this old, old match after all this time has passed















































































without also mentioning our 1-0 win over them on New Year's day 1965, which likewise cost them the league title. And this a far more satisfying result, as the winning goal was scored by an ex-Hearts player. :faf:
:not worth The late, great Willie Hamilton.

[Bostonhibby]

Absolutely disgraceful that you should bring up this old, old match after all this time has passed


Was actually at all of these games, 1965 was one I really don't remember but my uncle says its inconceivable that I wouldn't have been taken along, however I cannot for the life of me remember why 85 - 86 was so important, perhaps someone can enlighten me.

[ancient hibee]

Wonder if Claros earns in Honduras and whether we are applying the correct PAYE method?

Read recently that over 1000 Romanov employees in Latvia(I think) have not been paid since July.

[CropleyWasGod]

Wonder if Claros earns in Honduras and whether we are applying the correct PAYE method?

Read recently that over 1000 Romanov employees in Latvia(I think) have not been paid since July.

In HMRC's view, he is resident here. Ergo he should be taxed the same as anyone else.

[ancient hibee]

In HMRC's view, he is resident here. Ergo he should be taxed the same as anyone else.

But to do that the club has to know his remuneration in Honduras along with his rate of income tax there.Also presumably it depends on length of residence in each country.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Wonder if Claros earns in Honduras and whether we are applying the correct PAYE method?

Read recently that over 1000 Romanov employees in Latvia(I think) have not been paid since July.

That's not relevant. The difference is that Hibs (or Tom Farmer) don't own that team in Honduras.

[ancient hibee]

That's not relevant. The difference is that Hibs (or Tom Farmer) don't own that team in Honduras.

The fact that Romanov owns Kaunus has nothing to do with this case.

[One Day Soon]

The fact that Romanov owns Kaunus has nothing to do with this case.


I think it does in the minds of HMRC surely? They will see this as the tax equivalent of a Housing Benefit contrived tenancy.

[Jack Hackett]

This, 100%:top marks

I prefer deid tae dead though :wink:


I don't care how anyone spells it, as long as it happens :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

The fact that Romanov owns Kaunus has nothing to do with this case.

It has everything to do with the case. The "loan price" between the two clubs was fixed for maximum tax advantage. Normally HMRC wouldn't be able to question a loan price because the two clubs are independent of each other.

The other factor is that some of them weren't loans in the common sense that most football fans (or HMRC) would understand them: a short term arrangement (between independent actors) which may or may not be extended depending on the circumstances. eg Bednar was playing in the Czech Republic, was bought by Kaunas and then immediately "loaned" to Hearts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/5303930.stm). He may have never even so much as stepped foot in Lithuania, but would have been paying his taxes there.

[CropleyWasGod]

But to do that the club has to know his remuneration in Honduras along with his rate of income tax there.Also presumably it depends on length of residence in each country.

Slightly backtrack on my earlier view here.....

He's not an employee of Hibs. Therefore his club will invoice us every month for an agreed amount. There will be no PAYE and NI on that payment.

However, Claros is resident here, and therefore due UK tax on his worldwide earnings. HMRC and he will agree on his liability, and Hibs won't be part of it.

While I write this, I am wondering therefore what the difference is between us and the Hearts situation. (edit.... perhaps HMFC undertook to pick up their tax liabilities, which would be remuneration in itself.)

[Kato]

While I write this, I am wondering therefore what the difference is between us and the Hearts situation. (edit.... perhaps HMFC undertook to pick up their tax liabilities, which would be remuneration in itself.)

The amount of players? The same bloke owning both clubs? Those seemingly outsize "player registration fees" that puzzled in their accounts?

Nothing like Claros' situation - a one off between two distinct entities.

[CropleyWasGod]

The amount of players? The same bloke owning both clubs? Those seemingly outsize "player registration fees" that puzzled in their accounts?

Nothing like Claros' situation - a one off between two distinct entities.

The first and second shouldn't make a difference. However, the third might..... depending on who the money was paid to. If part of it was to the players, HMRC might have taken the view that those payments represented remuneration.

[Mikey]

In the unlikely event that Hibs have made a mistake with Claros (and it would be a genuine mistake) you can be sure that Hibs and HMRC would sort it out quickly and amicably.

I would be very surprised if there's an issue though.

[NYHibby]

It has everything to do with the case. The "loan price" between the two clubs was fixed for maximum tax advantage. Normally HMRC wouldn't be able to question a loan price because the two clubs are independent of each other.

Yes, this is true. From the little that I have heard about this situation it sounds like this is a textbook transfer pricing case. Transfer pricing rules would not apply in almost all football loan deals which is why the guy on BBC radio does not know what he is talking about.

[greenginger]

Romanov is noted as ultimate controller of Hearts as well as Kaunus F C so they are connected companies subject to a whole raft of tax laws I don't ever want to be troubled with again. :greengrin

[bingo70]

In the unlikely event that Hibs have made a mistake with Claros (and it would be a genuine mistake) you can be sure that Hibs and HMRC would sort it out quickly and amicably.

I would be very surprised if there's an issue though.

:agree:

I just can't look past the fact that no matter how innocent hearts may look or how safe Robertson thinks they are...If Hearts had been doing nothing wrong then HMRC wouldn't have found evidence and be pursuing them and Hearts wouldn't be scrambling about trying to raise £1.75m.

Whatever it may be that they've done, they've been caught.

[StevieC]

The first and second shouldn't make a difference. However, the third might..... depending on who the money was paid to. If part of it was to the players, HMRC might have taken the view that those payments represented remuneration.

My guess is that the "registration fees" were used by Kaunus to pay all (or part) of the wages.

For example .. Hearts pay Kaunus a £200k registration fee and then pay £1k a week towards the wages. Kaunus pay the player £5k a week at lower tax level. They then pay UK tax and NI on the £1k.

If the HMRC have reasonable evidence, they could argue that UK tax and NI should be paid on the registration fee (or the full wage).

Just guessing likes. :wink:

[StevieC]

I can remember a story ages ago about a Hearts player that applied for a loan/mortgage, or something, and his wage was too low to get it, until he produced documentation of an additional income from Kaunus.

I didn't read too much into at the time, but looks like it could be what the HMRC are chasing up.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can remember a story ages ago about a Hearts player that applied for a loan/mortgage, or something, and his wage was too low to get it, until he produced documentation of an additional income from Kaunus.

I didn't read too much into at the time, but looks like it could be what the HMRC are chasing up.

I remember that one too, Stevie, and I've always suspected that that was at the root of the HMRC investigation. However, if that is the case, then it's not the loan players that are the issue here. That player was employed by Hearts. As such, he would be subject to tax on his worldwide income.

[NYHibby]

However, Claros is resident here, and therefore due UK tax on his worldwide earnings. HMRC and he will agree on his liability, and Hibs won't be part of it.


This might just be your loose use of language, but you are wrong on this point. Strictly speaking the UK does not tax "worldwide earnings" like the other countries that do tax worldwide earnings, like the US for example. In my own personal case, I am a US citizen/UK resident with a fairly complicated tax situation. The US taxes me on all my UK income but the UK does not tax me on certain US income.

This whole situation is further complicated by the differences in the various bilateral tax treaties.

[Hibeesforever]

There could well be a top level tax consultant in there, he looks heavily pregnant to me.

Could even be triplets.

The comedy has started in ernest. Hands off Hearts HMRC !

If the bill is £4million with interest and penalities, can't see any way out for them this time.

A third division re-start will be difficult without a ground!

[hibbybob]

It would be interesting to know how the loan of Craig Thomson to Kaunas was treated.

Would HoMFC be stupid enough to treat the tax situation differently from the players loaned to Hearts from Kaunas? I.E try to dodge tax both ways? If so, could HMRC use this in their case against Hearts?

[Kaiser1962]

My guess is that the "registration fees" were used by Kaunus to pay all (or part) of the wages.

For example .. Hearts pay Kaunus a £200k registration fee and then pay £1k a week towards the wages. Kaunus pay the player £5k a week at lower tax level. They then pay UK tax and NI on the £1k.

If the HMRC have reasonable evidence, they could argue that UK tax and NI should be paid on the registration fee (or the full wage).

Just guessing likes. :wink:

I suspect they may be interested in players like Bednar, Goncalves, Aguiar and Jankauskas who signed for Kausnas yet never kicked a ball for them.

[StevieC]

Would HoMFC be stupid enough to treat the tax situation differently

I don't think any of this would be down to "stupidity" from Hearts point of view and more likely to be the tax avoiding mindset of their owner. Being self-employed in the UK, I have to declare all my income and pay the appropriate amount of tax and NI accordingly. I get the impression that there is a completely different mindset in Russia (and former Soviet nations) regarding the declaration of income and the payment of tax, and that the authorities are less stringent at chasing up irregularities.

I would suspect that Vlad paid very little (if any) tax on the "player registrations" that were received from Hearts.

[Seveno]

I understand that the Jambos' tax consultant is Corporal Fraser of Dad's Army.













We're dooooooomed !

[StevieC]

I suspect they may be interested in players like Bednar, Goncalves, Aguiar and Jankauskas who signed for Kausnas yet never kicked a ball for them.

Were some of those players not on a reported £8-£10k a week?
If so, that's an annual wage of close to £500k with a tax liability of 50%, so it wouldn't be long in adding up to the figure the HMRC are chasing.
It's sounding more and more like the HMRC could well have a decent case.

[PatHead]

Sound familiar?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/26/bradford-bulls-enter-administration

[StevieC]

Sound familiar?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/26/bradford-bulls-enter-administration

This bit certainly does ..

"They have already thrown themselves on the mercy of their fans once this year, when an appeal from Hood to raise £500,000 to secure their short-term future was successful .. but that money would appear to have been swallowed."

Replace £500,000 with £1.75m. :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Were some of those players not on a reported £8-£10k a week?
If so, that's an annual wage of close to £500k with a tax liability of 50%, so it wouldn't be long in adding up to the figure the HMRC are chasing.
It's sounding more and more like the HMRC could well have a decent case.

It would have been 40% back then but you can see how they could quickly get to the sort of number mentioned.

The other strange thing about those deals (certainly in Bednar's case) was how Kaunas would then "sell" the player to Hearts after a year or two. Almost like they realised there was a tax problem and needed to rectify it.

[Kaiser1962]

Were some of those players not on a reported £8-£10k a week?
If so, that's an annual wage of close to £500k with a tax liability of 50%, so it wouldn't be long in adding up to the figure the HMRC are chasing.
It's sounding more and more like the HMRC could well have a decent case.

I recollect reports that Goncalves was on considerably more than that. Was it not reported when Zaliaukios was negotiating that he wanted parity with Goncalves?

When was Campbell Ogilvy there? Just out of curiosity.........

Over the road they are all pretty much praying for administration but a few half sensible folk are, rightly, pointing out that this is very unlikely to happen given the structure and set up of the debts. Right now they will be very fortunate to see the end of the year, never mind the end of the season. .

[Mon Dieu4]

they have had a few "stars" that would have been on a fair wedge, Dairylea Kingston, Fyssas, Bednar, Panilla, Skacel, Zaliukas etc

[DaveF]

I recollect reports that Goncalves was on considerably more than that. Was it not reported when Zaliaukios was negotiating that he wanted parity with Goncalves?

When was Campbell Ogilvy there? Just out of curiosity.........

Over the road they are all pretty much praying for administration but a few half sensible folk are, rightly, pointing out that this is very unlikely to happen given the structure and set up of the debts. Right now they will be very fortunate to see the end of the year, never mind the end of the season. .

As much as I'd like them to sink without trace, I just can't see them shutting up shop. Somehow, they will escape from all this and still be hanging around like a bad smell for years to come.

Feel free to dig up this post and remind of it if \ when the place is demolished though :greengrin

[Kato]

I wonder if there were .cough. duel contracts?

[Kato]

As much as I'd like them to sink without trace, I just can't see them shutting up shop. Somehow, they will escape from all this and still be hanging around like a bad smell for years to come.....


...playing at Murrayfield in Div 3.

[DaveF]

...playing at Murrayfield in Div 3.

I can cope with that :greengrin

[--------]

Yes, their extinction is appealing.

However I stand by my position. The cup final was A win, not THE win. But then I'm not in favour of the sort of mentality that chooses as the best tunes and bands of all time the ones people can remember from the last three or four years. A longer perspective is better.

I'll see their referee-assisted, financial steroid-bought cup win and then raise it both the 7-0 AND the magnificent 0-0 draw on 9th November 1985 which cost them the single point that would otherwise have won them the League in season 1985-1986. Still, Mita been eh?


I would tend to share your long view, but MAY 19th was just about as painful a day as I've ever had following Hibs and I'm in no mood to forget or forbear - yet.

But if, as may well yet come to light, there were contractual irregularities between the club and some of those players who played in the Final, I would assume that the SFA will have to do to them what they appear to intend to do to Rangers - deprive them of the trophy concerned.

Now THAT would be both funny, and exquisitely poetic justice.

[shagpile]

I wonder if there were .cough. duel contracts?

Doubt it. Contracts with 'Russian Roulette to be played by the whole squad until there is a "loser" ' in them would have been much better though!.:thumbsup:

[Kaiser1962]

As much as I'd like them to sink without trace, I just can't see them shutting up shop. Somehow, they will escape from all this and still be hanging around like a bad smell for years to come.

Feel free to dig up this post and remind of it if \ when the place is demolished though :greengrin


I share your concerns and if it was anything else but football they would already be consigned to the dustbin. But it is football and normal rules are suspended.

I remain hopeful though.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

I can remember a story ages ago about a Hearts player that applied for a loan/mortgage, or something, and his wage was too low to get it, until he produced documentation of an additional income from Kaunus.

I didn't read too much into at the time, but looks like it could be what the HMRC are chasing up.

which begs the repeated question, why would any footballer WANT to sign for them?

[StevieC]

which begs the repeated question, why would any footballer WANT to sign for them?

Because they pay more than any other team outwith the old firm. How (or when) they get their wages really doesn't matter, they still have the money in the bank.

[EuanH78]

Not being a tax expert here but something about these theories doesnt smell right.

Why would Hearts pay any of the 'loan' players wages at all if a tax break could be achieved (ignoring the relative morality/ chances of getting away with it) If you are going to avoid tax this way why not go the whole hog and just have Kaunus pay the complete wage?

Also, could it be as simple as information from HomoFC's own accounts sinking them?

'So, your accounts say you pay £?? Million in wages per year, Seems your PAYE and NI are a bit short Mr Romanov' :Romanov:

Thinking the 'player registrations' to Kaunas is probably lump sums to cover wage payments though - Seems a stick on.

[monktonharp]

In the unlikely event that Hibs have made a mistake with Claros (and it would be a genuine mistake) you can be sure that Hibs and HMRC would sort it out quickly and amicably.

I would be very surprised if there's an issue though.dont agree with all you say Mikey,but on this occasion I do . cant see HFC falling into a trap set by hmrc for the sake of one player, but you never know. things can be overlooked genuinely, but for one individual, surely that can be sorted if it was exposed as money owed.? there must be a few situations over the years where Hibernian have players on loan from overseas, outwith our tax system.

[Www1875hfc]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/hearts-warn-fans-to-buy-shares-or-face-drastic-cost-cutting-measures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation

[hfc rd]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/hearts-warn-fans-to-buy-shares-or-face-drastic-cost-cutting-measures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation



Nice wee read that. 1st July 2013 is something to look forward to.
Tick tock tick tock.

[Mon Dieu4]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/hearts-warn-fans-to-buy-shares-or-face-drastic-cost-cutting-measures-1-2602709

Quite liked this wee paragraph
What is clear is that Hearts remain at the mercy of Romanov and his Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, which has been in control for almost eight years. As of 20 June last year, Hearts owed UBIG £22.4m, with interest at 4.5 per cent. The share document states that UBIG will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012-13 but the position will be reassessed on 1 July 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount,” states the document, “the Company [Hearts] would be insolvent and face liquidation

the interest alone is about £2,700 a DAY then!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm just absolutely delighted that HMRC finally decided to act on my strongly worded letter to them regarding the crooked manner in which the pinkoids have been run for a few years now, i also mentioned that campbell ogilvie deserves his very own investigation :agree:








go me :)

[grunt]

Hard hittting Tom English article in the Scotsman

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom-english-buy-hearts-shares-or-live-with-results-1-2602698


Buy Hearts shares or live with results

IN ANNOUNCING their share issue last week, Hearts didn’t so much press a prospectus into the hands of their supporters as push a gun to their temple. Whether it was the wording in the share brochure published on Friday or the comments made by Tynecastle director Sergejus Fedotovas earlier on the same day, the message coming out of the club was one that had more than a hint of emotional blackmail about it. In presenting a vision of the future that had Hearts in mortal (http://www.hibs.net/#) danger of administration and possibly liquidation if the fans didn’t stump up more cash, Fedotovas, and the puppet master himself Vladimir Romanov, were engaging in some pretty desperate measures. Effectively they were saying: “Buy the shares or live with the consequences if you don’t...”

“The share issue is a signal, an alarm to the people who are truly concerned about the club,” said Fedotovas. What is he saying here? If people can’t afford to buy shares or don’t want to invest because they have legitimate concerns about how their money might be spent then these supporters are not “truly concerned about the club”? To Fedotovas’ mind is it a case of “if you want to prove you care, then buy the shares”?

All through Hearts’ public statements about the share issue there is a threat and the threat comes in the way of what might befall the club if enough punters don’t stump up. There doesn’t appear to any acceptance of responsibility on Romanov’s behalf, no mea culpa over the ridiculous way he has run the club. No. “If this strategy fails, the club will be faced with a tough financial reality,” said Fedotovas. “The answer to that would be another dramatic cut in costs. And I don’t think anyone would be happy with a weak team and bad football results.”

There you go. Pay up or feel the guilt. Fedotovas made a preposterous remark on Friday when saying that “if you want to maintain a squad that is capable of playing in Europe then the budget should be according to that.” Well, firstly, merely playing (i.e. qualifying to play) in Europe doesn’t need a big budget anymore, certainly not in Rangers’ absence. Motherwell had a shot at the Champions League last season with a much smaller budget than Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/#) have, so Hearts could keep cutting and they’d still be one of the most moneyed squads in the SPL outside of Celtic.

Secondly, it was the drive for the SPL title and some kind of relevance in European football that has got Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/#) into this financial nightmare in the first place. While Romanov deserves credit for stopping the sale of Tynecastle when he bought a controlling interest in the club, the early years of his stewardship were marked by spending. Throughout his supercilious phase when he predicted league titles and Champions League competition, the amount of money Romanov wasted on player salaries was nothing short of vulgar. Hearts are £24 million in debt (plus annual interest of 4.5 per cent) because of their hubristic wish to “maintain a squad that is capable of playing in Europe”. They don’t have enough money to pay their players on time, they have HMRC battering on their door, they have had to sell, sell and sell again to keep the show on the road and Fedotovas is harping on about building a squad for Europe? Enough, Sergejus.

The share brochure doesn’t so much suggest that Hearts need money now as scream it aloud. This is a hole of Romanov’s making and now he’s now demanding that the supporters fill it in with their cash, despite always saying that his private investment group, UBIG would always cover for any financial shortfall. Not anymore. In the introduction they suggest that everybody turns to page 18 for a section called Risk Factors and here is where Romanov reaches for the loaded gun.

It talks about the club being insolvent if it wasn’t for the ongoing support of Romanov’s UBIG, support that is guaranteed for this current season but will be “reassessed” on 1 July, 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount, the Company would be insolvent and would face liquidation.” That’s Romanov effectively saying “I can shut this club down in the summer if I like…”

In the very next paragraph the tax case is mentioned. By comparison, the £1.75m, excluding interest and penalties, that HMRC are seeking from Hearts is buttons compared to the numbers that we’ve been speaking about for years at Ibrox, but, in relative terms, it’s a hugely significant figure. Hearts said on Thursday that they wanted to raise £1.8m in their share issue but never mentioned a potential tax bill which, coincidentally, will come in at about £1.8m if the case goes against them. Now, maybe the two £1.8ms are not linked, but the confusion must prey on the minds of some Hearts fans as they ponder the share issue. Are they being bull****ted here? Is the bulk of their share money going to youth development or is it a sneaky ploy on behalf of the club to use fans’ money to pay off the taxman?

The share brochure talks of a “significant ongoing dispute” with HMRC which could have a “dramatically negative impact on the Company”. The tax tribunal sits next month, the case revolving around a clutch of players signed on loan by Hearts from Kaunas up to seven years ago when the Lithuanian club was controlled by Romanov. The players’ salaries ran into thousands of pounds per week but only a small percentage of their wage was paid by Hearts. The majority came from their parent club. HMRC claim that Hearts were obliged to pay tax on their entire salary, not just a portion of it.

Some Hearts fans will buy shares because they can and because they feel they must but there is no moral imperative to buy, despite what Fedotovas is saying. If you’re a conscientious objector to the share issue (based on your fears about how the money might be used), it doesn’t make you any less of a Hearts fan. Maybe in Fedotovas’ mind it does, but not in the real world.

And let’s be clear about one thing. This isn’t an investment, it’s a gift. The shares will be worth nothing as the club is worth nothing, in financial terms. Last year, Romanov valued it at £50m, now he seems to have dropped the valuation to about £18m. Supporters are being asked to hand over £110, which is probably 109 times more than the entire club is worth while saddled by all that debt. There are perilous times for Hearts, but nobody should forget who is largely responsible for the shambles they’re currently in.

[brog]

Although the circumstances are different the intent by both sevco & yams is identical, ie buy players you can't afford by getting us ( uk taxpayers ) to subsidise the wages of these players. There are many significant differences between normal loans & the yam situation. Most loans are for players out of favour at their club, eg Adebayor or young promising but inexperienced players, eg McGiven & Handling. The yam players never played for Kaunas & mostly never even entered the country. I have no doubt this will be found, correctly, to be tax evasion. One other possibility enters my cynical mind. What if yams were correctly taxing some of the Kaunas loans but only handing over a smaller amount to HMRC? That would be fraud & again not dissimilar to sevco where tax was collected but not paid to HMRC. They're doomed I tell you, doomed!

[Danderhall Hibs]

See when Gordon signed his £18k per week contract weren't there rumours he had to sign for Kaunas and be loaned back to Hearts?

[matty_f]

See when Gordon signed his £18k per week contract weren't there rumours he had to sign for Kaunas and be loaned back to Hearts?

There were definitely stories of players having to have Lithuanian bank accounts, which would suggest not everything was being done transparently.

[Hibstrooper]

Hard hittting Tom English article in the Scotsman

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom-english-buy-hearts-shares-or-live-with-results-1-2602698

Nice Sunday morning read :greengrin

Karma's a bitch :cb

[SloopJB]

I'd much prefer Hibs to be a stronger teeam than Hearts, dominate the fixture for years to come than see hearts go out of business as the 'more successful on the pitch' of the two teams.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd much prefer Hibs to be a stronger teeam than Hearts, dominate the fixture for years to come than see hearts go out of business as the 'more successful on the pitch' of the two teams.

Hearts have been stronger on the pitch in the same way as Lance Armstrong was the strongest on the streets of France.
They have been financial doping for years and still have a squad which costs them more than their turnover.

[#FromTheCapital]

What it all boils down to is that hearts have been cheating in order to gain a sporting advantage. For this reason I hope they rot in hell.

[thebakerboy]

Just had a Jambo I know on FB saying yes he is going to invest in Hearts and that he believes in Vlad and what do I mean in suggesting the have cheated to win 2 cups in 6 years as per Portsmouth. Some of them are totally deluded and I honestly almost feel sorry for them. My other Jambo friends know they are in deep doo doo and are very worried but as long as some still believe it will continue.

[english_hibee]

Nice Sunday morning read :greengrin

Karma's a bitch :cb


Cue a seething "Scotsman is more a Hibernian fanzine than a real paper - they hate us tooooooooo *sob sob*" from our Tynie cousins!

[1two]

Hearts have been stronger on the pitch in the same way as Lance Armstrong was the strongest on the streets of France.
They have been financial doping for years and still have a squad which costs them more than their turnover.

I like that, I'm going to use that one

[cabbageandribs1875]

Just had a Jambo I know on FB saying yes he is going to invest in Hearts and that he believes in Vlad and what do I mean in suggesting the have cheated to win 2 cups in 6 years as per Portsmouth. Some of them are totally deluded and I honestly almost feel sorry for them. My other Jambo friends know they are in deep doo doo and are very worried but as long as some still believe it will continue.



there's none so blind as those who will not see

[GoldenEagle]

Remember that Hearts re-iterated to the Edinburgh Council that a new stadium needs to be in place for the start of season 2013/2014 back in March 2011.

[greenginger]

Been having a scan of the various opinions and predictions of future events over on Kickback.

Loose the tax case , Vlad refuses to stump-up, Share sale is a flop/success and everything in between.

Some seem to think administration, getting a CVA, dumping the tax debt with UBIG retaining the PBS because of their security would be the solution. ?

Any thoughts Cav/CWG, your employment on this board is secure. :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

don't think a CVA would work this time, the Huns had outside creditors but why would Vlad sanction that road when its him and his businesses that would lose out?

does a CVA even work when the creditors are not a UK based company?

[johncrobertson@]

Short term loan from Wonga may help the cheaters. There is no way Romanov has ploughed in 60 million and they are 40 million in debt. That is a swing of 100 million + money brought in from transfers etc. From the moment he took over every penny spent went through their clubs books. In my mind they are absolute cheats by paying salaries that were way over what they could afford - and just creating debt. From the money he allegedly invested - where is the ground improvement? where is the training facilities? They deserve everything they get - and one thing is for sure, our approach will pay long term dividends as we have the infrastructure all now in place, and we are starting to see results on the pitch. C'mon the Hibees.

[AllyT]

I posted about 2 years ago that I knew for a fact that money was being paid through a Lithuanian bank. Source? An ex Vlad employee who I knew through him working for me for a while - after he was sacked by Vlad. He was paid £500 a month here by Hearts, the rest was funnelled through a Lith bank to avoid UK taxes. He also got a free apartment, free car, phone, all his meals etc. No P11D benefits were ever declared. There is no doubt in my mind that HMRC will win any case against them.

[Caversham Green]

Been having a scan of the various opinions and predictions of future events over on Kickback.

Loose the tax case , Vlad refuses to stump-up, Share sale is a flop/success and everything in between.

Some seem to think administration, getting a CVA, dumping the tax debt with UBIG retaining the PBS because of their security would be the solution. ?

Any thoughts Cav/CWG, your employment on this board is secure. :greengrin

Here's what I just posted onthe pm board...


I think the difference between HoMFC and Rangers is that Rangers was a viable business with good tax-producing potential if they could have got out of their immediate predicament. In Hearts case they simply don't have a viable business case even if they could offload large parts of their debt.

To my mind, all administration would do is cost fees unnecessarily.

[oregonhibby]

Dead simple. You pay the tax you ply your trade in. They "earned" the pay here they pay the tax here.

The loan story is a red herring. Uk to Uk loans are still in HMRC's jurisdiction so they get the tax either way.

Hearts could have a Corporation Tax advantage by paying Kaunas a management fee for the players, thereby reducing tax in the UK, provided Kaunus are part of the same Group.

The government need every tax £ and that is why they are pursuing this. Interest and penalties will be heafty as well.

The investment story is crap. It is basically a bung. And any sane person investing would run a mile because of the tax case!

Sane of course is the operative word!

[Ozyhibby]

Doubt Vlad would bother with admin. He would probably go straight for liquidation. He controls most of the debt and I would think he either has a charge over the stadium or he has already shifted ownership to a different entity. Either way, HMRC will not see a penny of the money they are claiming against Hearts.
Although the property Market is nowhere near where it was in 2008, Tynecastle still has some value (probably about £6-8m). Ubig will almost certainly try to het as much money back as possible to cover the balance sheet hit they will take if they are liquidated.
A phoenix Hearts will have to compete with the house builders if they want Tynecastle back. I doubt they would want to. It is on it's last legs as a stadium. More likely they will rent at Murrayfield, start in Div 3 and take about 5-6 years to get back. They are not Sevco so will not be able to attract players from the SPL like they have done. There should be at least one missed promotion.
By the time they get back to the SPL they will be paying High rent at Murrayfield or be sitting on a large debt after the construction of a new stadium outside the town.
They will have lost their History. No more 5-1, Scottish cups etc.
All in all it should be quite amusing.

[Jack Hackett]

Doubt Vlad would bother with admin. He would probably go straight for liquidation. He controls most of the debt and I would think he either has a charge over the stadium or he has already shifted ownership to a different entity. Either way, HMRC will not see a penny of the money they are claiming against Hearts.
Although the property Market is nowhere near where it was in 2008, Tynecastle still has some value (probably about £6-8m). Ubig will almost certainly try to het as much money back as possible to cover the balance sheet hit they will take if they are liquidated.
A phoenix Hearts will have to compete with the house builders if they want Tynecastle back. I doubt they would want to. It is on it's last legs as a stadium. More likely they will rent at Murrayfield, start in Div 3 and take about 5-6 years to get back. They are not Sevco so will not be able to attract players from the SPL like they have done. There should be at least one missed promotion.
By the time they get back to the SPL they will be paying High rent at Murrayfield or be sitting on a large debt after the construction of a new stadium outside the town.
They will have lost their History. No more 5-1, Scottish cups etc.
All in all it should be quite amusing.

This is the kind of scenario which puts a big smile on my face, and makes my breakfast a thoroughly enjoyable experience this morning :agree:

[Biggie]

Doubt Vlad would bother with admin. He would probably go straight for liquidation. He controls most of the debt and I would think he either has a charge over the stadium or he has already shifted ownership to a different entity. Either way, HMRC will not see a penny of the money they are claiming against Hearts.
Although the property Market is nowhere near where it was in 2008, Tynecastle still has some value (probably about £6-8m). Ubig will almost certainly try to het as much money back as possible to cover the balance sheet hit they will take if they are liquidated.
A phoenix Hearts will have to compete with the house builders if they want Tynecastle back. I doubt they would want to. It is on it's last legs as a stadium. More likely they will rent at Murrayfield, start in Div 3 and take about 5-6 years to get back. They are not Sevco so will not be able to attract players from the SPL like they have done. There should be at least one missed promotion.
By the time they get back to the SPL they will be paying High rent at Murrayfield or be sitting on a large debt after the construction of a new stadium outside the town.
They will have lost their History. No more 5-1, Scottish cups etc.
All in all it should be quite amusing.
This. Please let this be so....

[God Petrie]

The nice thing about these clowns going bust is the 0-7 game will officially be the biggest derby horsing in the entire history of hertz vs hibs.

I dont think hibs vs spartans will have the same spice to it.

[SloopJB]

Doubt Vlad would bother with admin. He would probably go straight for liquidation. He controls most of the debt and I would think he either has a charge over the stadium or he has already shifted ownership to a different entity. Either way, HMRC will not see a penny of the money they are claiming against Hearts.
Although the property Market is nowhere near where it was in 2008, Tynecastle still has some value (probably about £6-8m). Ubig will almost certainly try to het as much money back as possible to cover the balance sheet hit they will take if they are liquidated.
A phoenix Hearts will have to compete with the house builders if they want Tynecastle back. I doubt they would want to. It is on it's last legs as a stadium. More likely they will rent at Murrayfield, start in Div 3 and take about 5-6 years to get back. They are not Sevco so will not be able to attract players from the SPL like they have done. There should be at least one missed promotion.
By the time they get back to the SPL they will be paying High rent at Murrayfield or be sitting on a large debt after the construction of a new stadium outside the town.
They will have lost their History. No more 5-1, Scottish cups etc.
All in all it should be quite amusing.
doubt it.
Vlad could just let the club agree a payment period for the tax, keep the debt and have the club live within their means and service the debt.
no outlay and has an income.

Liquidation would be the ultimate debt forgiveness

[poolman]

Good article in Scotland on Sunday


http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/tom-english-buy-hearts-shares-or-live-with-results-1-2602698

[thebakerboy]

Everyone seems to have forgotten that there is a ready made replacement for Tynie just up the road at Saughton park , should suit them nicely next season.

[SloopJB]

Hearts have been stronger on the pitch in the same way as Lance Armstrong was the strongest on the streets of France.
They have been financial doping for years and still have a squad which costs them more than their turnover.

doesn't change anything.
If they live on within their means financing their debt to ubig and hmrc then they will be the same as the rest.

Then we can play on an even playing field and win the upper hand fairly.

[blackpoolhibs]

The nice thing about these clowns going bust is the 0-7 game will officially be the biggest derby horsing in the entire history of hertz vs hibs.

I dont think hibs vs spartans will have the same spice to it.

I'm 100% prepared to give it a try.

[Ozyhibby]

doubt it.
Vlad could just let the club agree a payment period for the tax, keep the debt and have the club live within their means and service the debt.
no outlay and has an income.

Liquidation would be the ultimate debt forgiveness

HMRC will not give a payment plan in 2012 for taxes that should have been payed in 2005. They will have to stump up the full amount or HMRC will issue a winding up order.
Will Vlad chuck in another £4m?
Not sure where you get the Income part from. They are losing about £800k a month.

[Sammy7nil]

Good article in Scotland on Sunday


http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/tom-english-buy-hearts-shares-or-live-with-results-1-2602698

Very good article, if Hearts fans buy shares it is a "gift" very true.
The problem is who is the gift for Hearts, HMRC or Uncle Vlad?

I always thought Hearts would come out of the shambles smelling of roses until now :greengrin

I hope they are here next year still around playing in the SPL with 18yr old laddies consistently losing 4 - 5 goals per week lets see how many Believers continue to turn up.

[Treadstone]

Quick question :

Does Petrie get carried shoulder high into the AGM this year ?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZyDaci79yFQ/0.jpg

[Hibs7]

Perfect storm brewing for the Jumbos, better start a suicide watch around Gorgie. Mind you they would probably *** that up as well.

[Saorsa]

Perfect storm brewing for the Jumbos, better start a suicide watch around Gorgie. Mind you they would probably *** that up as well.suicide watch? Nah, I'm going tae start a rope making business :greengrin

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/hangyam.gif

[RoYO!]

Doubt Vlad would bother with admin. He would probably go straight for liquidation. He controls most of the debt and I would think he either has a charge over the stadium or he has already shifted ownership to a different entity. Either way, HMRC will not see a penny of the money they are claiming against Hearts.
Although the property Market is nowhere near where it was in 2008, Tynecastle still has some value (probably about £6-8m). Ubig will almost certainly try to het as much money back as possible to cover the balance sheet hit they will take if they are liquidated.
A phoenix Hearts will have to compete with the house builders if they want Tynecastle back. I doubt they would want to. It is on it's last legs as a stadium. More likely they will rent at Murrayfield, start in Div 3 and take about 5-6 years to get back. They are not Sevco so will not be able to attract players from the SPL like they have done. There should be at least one missed promotion.
By the time they get back to the SPL they will be paying High rent at Murrayfield or be sitting on a large debt after the construction of a new stadium outside the town.
They will have lost their History. No more 5-1, Scottish cups etc.
All in all it should be quite amusing.

Couple of additions that make this even better reading. VR defo does own tynecastle as this was part of a debt for equity swap as far as I'm aware. Also don't believe they can build flats on the land due to contamination/ not fit for human dwelling... No change there then! :p e.g land becomes even less valuable

[jdships]

Surely if you buy shares , regardless with what company /club etc ., one is looking for an annual dividend ?
Is Vlad asking the 'slum dwellers' to forgo that dividend or will there just not be one ?
If so what is the point in buying ?
They won't get a seat on the board and even if they did would it achieve anything ?

Remember the song ' Fairy Tales may come true ' ?

' You can go to extremes with impossible schemes.
You can laugh when your dreams fall apart at the seams.
And life gets more exciting with each passing day.
And LIQUIDATION has either arrived, or is on it's way. '

This ' fairy tale' might just come true :greengrin

[hibs0666]

Remember writing this back in 2009 ya trumpet...

FAO our dear friends at hibs.net

Well, well, well. Hearts are going on a European tour; Hibs are staying at home as usual. Late last year, you insisted our demise was about to happen, administration and all the rest of it. Unbelievably, you're still writing thread after thread about it - but guess what? No-one's listening any more.

Tell us: what's it like to be more obsessed with your neighbours than to love your own club? Special mention here to those online graduates of the Adam Smith Institute, Heraghty's, Caversham Green and the one and only Sergey. Do any of you ever write anything about Hibs at all? It sure as heck doesn't seem that way. Oh, and inserting that naff green 'goodbye' smiley at the end of your latest bout of delusion doesn't mean your wildest fantasies (well, apart from losing your virginity at last) are about to come true!

Still, never mind. Tick tock, eh boys? Ever wondered why no-one in the national media has ever speculated in the way you constantly do? Here's a hint: it's because your dreams do not equal reality. This club will be here for as long and longer than you will; and as long as it does, you'll always be in our shadow. 108 years - and counting.

GIRFUY. :spammy:

[Ozyhibby]

Couple of additions that make this even better reading. VR defo does own tynecastle as this was part of a debt for equity swap as far as I'm aware. Also don't believe they can build flats on the land due to contamination/ not fit for human dwelling... No change there then! :p e.g land becomes even less valuable

I'd prefer the land to be more valuable for housing than it just getting handed to the Phoenix club. I want them out the city or at least paying tennants at Murrayfield.

[Hibbyradge]

:faf:

http://themiddleway.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/karma.png

[7 Hills]

:greengrin Tee-hee! I could do with a "Like!" button right now!

[Hibercelona]

Is anything actually going to happen this time?
























:cb

[Craig_in_Prague]

is this not also a club that has the words 'and now, the end is near' in its song. How fitting.

[Kaiser1962]

Couple of additions that make this even better reading. VR defo does own tynecastle as this was part of a debt for equity swap as far as I'm aware. Also don't believe they can build flats on the land due to contamination/ not fit for human dwelling... No change there then! :p e.g land becomes even less valuable


The PBS still belongs to the Yams, technically at least. There is a standard security, in favour of UBIG, over the stadium though and a floating charge over the rest of the company's assetts. If they were to go bang today UBIG/Vlad would retain full control over everything that Hearts own, even the lightbulbs.

Administration would be totally and utterly pointless.

[weonlywon6-2]

Hearts now admitting theyre up sh*t kreek without a paddle:greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20115241

Financially the situation is quite serious," Fedotovas told BBC Scotland. -- no sh*t Sherlock

[Hibercelona]

Hearts now admitting theyre up sh*t kreek without a paddle:greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20115241

Financially the situation is quite serious," Fedotovas told BBC Scotland. -- no sh*t Sherlock

"We are really hopeful that this club will be successful and will prosper and administration is the wrong word, I would say."

So in other words.... they're going into Administration, but will just pretend it's something else? :tee hee:

[HoboHarry]

Quick question :

Does Petrie get carried shoulder high into the AGM this year ?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZyDaci79yFQ/0.jpg
He should be. Some of the managerial appointments didn't work out it is true, but that said there were a lot of Hibees who agreed with the appointments at the time. From a financial point of view though, he must have balls of steel to have stared down all the fans who told him he was wrong to keep a tight reign financially and elect not to quit. Good old Rod Petrie has my vote.

[cocopops1875]

Spoke to a yam mate yesterday and asked him what he was gonna do about shares, his answer was I will probably buy some, £110 is the minimum amount he can spend he understands its a waste but feels in a situation that the alternative is doing nothing and that definitely won't help.

[HoboHarry]

"We are really hopeful that this club will be successful and will prosper and administration is the wrong word, I would say."

So in other words.... they're going into Administration, but will just pretend it's something else? :tee hee:
I know nothing about the admin/liquidation process but it seems to me that Vlad will never let anyone see his books, so therefore I can't see him doing anything other than simply closing the doors.

[500miles]

Spoke to a yam mate yesterday and asked him what he was gonna do about shares, his answer was I will probably buy some, £110 is the minimum amount he can spend he understands its a waste but feels in a situation that the alternative is doing nothing and that definitely won't help.

The best thing they could probably do is nothing right now. Force Vlad's hand to go into admin, sell, have a fans group/ group of sympathetic investors pick the club up, sell off tynecastle. Then you start a share issue. The council would make sure Hearts had somewhere to play, lets no kid ourselves on. Hearts might even be able to sell thier SPL shares to Rangers, release thier first team, play youngsters, and work thier way through the lower leagues. Who knows. There will be a way out, but I've got a feeling that Hearts won't be an SPL team at some point over the next couple of years.

[Treadstone]

He should be. Some of the managerial appointments didn't work out it is true, but that said there were a lot of Hibees who agreed with the appointments at the time. From a financial point of view though, he must have balls of steel to have stared down all the fans who told him he was wrong to keep a tight reign financially and elect not to quit. Good old Rod Petrie has my vote.

I was behind Petrie , not 100% , but debts have to be repaid or suffer the consequences . As for picking managers that should be taken out of his hands .

[Caversham Green]

Spoke to a yam mate yesterday and asked him what he was gonna do about shares, his answer was I will probably buy some, £110 is the minimum amount he can spend he understands its a waste but feels in a situation that the alternative is doing nothing and that definitely won't help.

I was thinking that if this was Hibs I might be inclined to pay the £110 if I thought it would keep my club alive. What would have killed my interest stone dead is the claim that they were still "committed to the development of a state-of-the-art football stadium" (see post#746). That must be the worst insult to the intelligence I've seen and tells me all I need to know about the idiots who are trying to extract money from the Gorgie hordes.

[Mikey]

I was thinking that if this was Hibs I might be inclined to pay the £110 if I thought it would keep my club alive. What would have killed my interest stone dead is the claim that they were still "committed to the development of a state-of-the-art football stadium". That must be the worst insult to the intelligence I've seen and tells me all I need to know about the idiots who are trying to extract money from the Gorgie hordes.

Once the share issue is complete will the total amount raised be public knowledge, or will we be relying on the Yam PR machine for our figures?

[Caversham Green]

Once the share issue is complete will the total amount raised be public knowledge, or will we be relying on the Yam PR machine for our figures?

I don't think it has to be publicised so it will probably be the latter - not sure whether they'll want to play it up or down though.

[Mikey]

I don't think it has to be publicised so it will probably be the latter - not sure whether they'll want to play it up or down though.

That's a shame. We could have run a competition :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

The whole Romanov Hearts project has resembled a group of destitute alcoholics breaking into an off licence and drinking as much as they can, in denial that at some hour the doors will by swung open and the stupefied, gurgling fools will be held to account for their actions.

This demise is different from the previous predicted ones as it's all coming from in-house rather than our wishful thinking; the mantle of arrogance has fallen and they are now forced to concede they are up **** creek. If Rangers can be effectively consigned to football limbo for three years, it could take Hearts a decade to recover.

I think they are in for a very rough time, which will be both painful and protracted.

That 5-1 hit doesn't seem quite so bad anymore.

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't think it has to be publicised so it will probably be the latter - not sure whether they'll want to play it up or down though.

Surely they would have to inform the people who purchased the shares?

[Mikey]

That 5-1 hit doesn't seem quite so bad anymore.

And would most likely be removed from the record books.

[woody47]

The things I find most amusing in the terms and conditions is it actually states that there is no way they can sell their shares or as they put it even "obtain reliable information about their worth". They also go on to say that there is a significant risk of losing all of their investment.
FFS, are yams really that thick?
This appears to be a way for these clowns to pay the outstanding tax bill giving them a bit more time to try and find some nutter who wants to buy the club.
All this nonsense about reinvesting in the youth is another smoke screen.
:na na::na na::na na:

[Caversham Green]

Surely they would have to inform the people who purchased the shares?

I think only in the most general terms - there's no specific project or target so they don't have to say whether it was a success or failure. It will become clear when (if) the current years account's are published but on current performance that won't be until May 2014.

That raises another point - they're asking for 'investment' nearly four months after their financial year end but the best financial data they can offer is from 16 months ago. Any serious prospectus would carry a summary of the most recent year-end figures as a bare minimum.

[Frazerbob]

I hope their draw against a now defunct 2nd division team and their tainted win over us were worth it when they wake up to no club to support.

[Twa Cairpets]

...And he [Fedetovas] explained: "The cost of the squad that won silverware [the Scottish Cup] last season is £8m and our income is just short of £7m.

The 5-1 bothered me almost not at all since the day of the game, and it has puzzled me as to why. Now I know, they've admitted what we knew that it was bought with a squad which was if not cheating in a footballing sense (they had Craig Thomson for that), were totally playing outwith the rules of fair competition.

You reap what you sow.

Bye bye. It was a deeply unpleasant experience knowing you.

[Mikey]

Apologies if it's somewhere in this thread. The Guardian article says that the hearing starts next month, do we know the actual date?

And is it in Edinburgh and will there be a public gallery? We could sell hibs.net popcorn at the door :greengrin

[SloopJB]

HMRC will not give a payment plan in 2012 for taxes that should have been payed in 2005. They will have to stump up the full amount or HMRC will issue a winding up order.
Will Vlad chuck in another £4m?
Not sure where you get the Income part from. They are losing about £800k a month.
Interest on the debt held by ubig
Are you sure HMRC will not give a payment plan?
Where did the £4m figure come from?

[Hibs90]

Matter of time aint it, one things for sure. I'll be pissing myself with laughter when it does happen.

Tick tock.

[Kato]

The things I find most amusing in the terms and conditions is it actually states that there is no way they can sell their shares or as they put it even "obtain reliable information about their worth". :

5s this not illegal? Don't they have to put out some kind of legally binding prospectus?

[greenginger]

Couple of additions that make this even better reading. VR defo does own tynecastle as this was part of a debt for equity swap as far as I'm aware. Also don't believe they can build flats on the land due to contamination/ not fit for human dwelling... No change there then! :p e.g land becomes even less valuable


Clause 11 of the Yams 2011 Accounts,

"The balance owed to UBIG is secured by a standard security over Tynecastle Stadium and a floating charge across the assets of the company"

Vlad as good as owns the stadium/development site,all he has to do is ask the loan to be repaid. :greengrin

What I can't get my head around is how the Yams could not be sustainable if the debt was removed. There is no need to pay bog standard SPL players more than any other team,they don't need 47 of an admin staff or provide cars and flats for all and sundry.
It is this big club mentality that has got them where they are so hell mend them. :agree:

[DaveF]

Interest on the debt held by ubig
Are you sure HMRC will not give a payment plan?
Where did the £4m figure come from?

I think the yams used up all their goodwill with HMRC in previous months / years when dicking them around with late payments.

The figure of 4 million is an estimate as if they lose this hearing then the 1.75 million is subject to interest and penalties from when the alleged offences started.

Such a shame.

[greenginger]

Apologies if it's somewhere in this thread. The Guardian article says that the hearing starts next month, do we know the actual date?

And is it in Edinburgh and will there be a public gallery? We could sell hibs.net popcorn at the door :greengrin

The Edinburgh HMRC Tax Chamber is in George Street opposite Tiger Lilly.Plenty of watering holes in the area for the Yams to find oblivion in.

[Ozyhibby]

The best thing they could probably do is nothing right now. Force Vlad's hand to go into admin, sell, have a fans group/ group of sympathetic investors pick the club up, sell off tynecastle. Then you start a share issue. The council would make sure Hearts had somewhere to play, lets no kid ourselves on. Hearts might even be able to sell thier SPL shares to Rangers, release thier first team, play youngsters, and work thier way through the lower leagues. Who knows. There will be a way out, but I've got a feeling that Hearts won't be an SPL team at some point over the next couple of years.

The very best things Hearts fans can do right now is nothing. If they all invest now and still go into liquidation then it will be harder to go back to the fans to help start a Phoenix club.
It's why I'm advising the jambos I know to do the right thing and invest to save their club.

[mikethehibee69]

Brian McLaughlin on BBC has posted on twitter his interview with Financial director from ****bo land, it makes interesting reading and they vehemently repute going into Administration, their words not the reporters, but they do concede they are in severe financial restraints and having problems that require immediate action:thumbsup:

shouldn't laugh:rolleyes: but nah I can't help myself:greengrin Tick Tock:thumbsup:

[Lix]

Keechback is compulsive reading just now :greengrin

Most get it, but some deluded fools reckon they have no choice but to spend their kids Xmas pressie money on hoping this last ditch begging bowl attempt works.

I actually felt sorry for gullible idiots being ripped off with emotional blackmail like this, but it seems they can actually throw their money away quite happily and openly knowing all the sad facts.

Ultimately I don't think you can protect the stupid from being allowed to indulge their stupidity but there is definitely a large degree of the battered wife about some of them.

'I'll give them my hard earned dough this time, but if they misuse it (errr like paying a tax bill?!) I'll definitely not subscribe next time' = 'I know I'm in casualty because he beat seven shades of ***** out of me, but he said he's sorry and he won't do it again. If he does it again I'll leave for good. Honest'

They are toast one way or the other, but they really should be saving their pennies to try and resurrect what's left after it all goes Pete Tong....

[Seveno]

The interest rate on the amount due will be charged at the judicial rate which is currently 8%. For just one year, that adds another £140,000 on to the bill. Add on penalties and it is easy to see how the total will eventually be close to £4m.

[The Falcon]

Just a thought but there may be opportunities that possibly develop out of their discomfort. I would like to think that Farmer and Petrie will be discussing their predicament in some detail.

[Jack Hackett]

Hearts now admitting theyre up sh*t kreek without a paddle:greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20115241

Financially the situation is quite serious," Fedotovas told BBC Scotland. -- no sh*t Sherlock

So what the guy says, basically, is that they employed Beattie and Satchel knowing full well they couldn't afford them.

I rest my case m'lud. The jury must find the defendant 'Guilty as charged' of stealing the Scottish Cup by cheating

[Jack Hackett]

Just a thought but there may be opportunities that possibly develop out of their discomfort. I would like to think that Farmer and Petrie will be discussing their predicament in some detail.

There's nothing left over there I'd want anywhere near Easter Road.....except mibbae the Cup :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

There's nothing left over there I'd want anywhere near Easter Road.....except mibbae the Cup :greengrin

The rights to use that badge and that name could be purchased. Just for old times sake. No need to do anything with it. :-)

[Hibercelona]

The rights to use that badge and that name could be purchased. Just for old times sake. No need to do anything with it. :-)

I know what I would do with the badge and the name.

A big broon jobby all over it. Although you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference on the badge afterwards.

[Elephant Stone]

Kickback is reeking of feces: "One thing I've never bought into is not calling Rangers "Rangers" anymore. Of course they are still Rangers as Hearts would still be Hearts whatever the new company was called."

[Sudds_1]

Apologies if it's somewhere in this thread. The Guardian article says that the hearing starts next month, do we know the actual date?

And is it in Edinburgh and will there be a public gallery? We could sell hibs.net popcorn at the door :greengrin


.....or even pegs :greengrin :wink:

[steakbake]

Would love it if Rima and the Pyjama Man were called to give evidence.

[Sunny1875]

Keechback is compulsive reading just now :greengrin

Most get it, but some deluded fools reckon they have no choice but to spend their kids Xmas pressie money on hoping this last ditch begging bowl attempt works.

I actually felt sorry for gullible idiots being ripped off with emotional blackmail like this, but it seems they can actually throw their money away quite happily and openly knowing all the sad facts.

Ultimately I don't think you can protect the stupid from being allowed to indulge their stupidity but there is definitely a large degree of the battered wife about some of them.

'I'll give them my hard earned dough this time, but if they misuse it (errr like paying a tax bill?!) I'll definitely not subscribe next time' = 'I know I'm in casualty because he beat seven shades of ***** out of me, but he said he's sorry and he won't do it again. If he does it again I'll leave for good. Honest'

They are toast one way or the other, but they really should be saving their pennies to try and resurrect what's left after it all goes Pete Tong....

SHHHH !!! don't tell them

[Treadstone]

Kickback is reeking of feces: "One thing I've never bought into is not calling Rangers "Rangers" anymore. Of course they are still Rangers as Hearts would still be Hearts whatever the new company was called."

Just been reading that one .:rolleyes:

An earlier post from the same guy says " The precedent has been set for separating the football club from the business managing the football club and transferring the licence to new owners while starting in the third division with no need to reapply as a new entity." :wink:

[steakbake]

What's this with players buying shares?

I won't feel sorry for any fool who throws his money on this mad gamble, then moans about not getting paid.

[Treadstone]

Someone , possibly on here used the analogy of the junkie son about the Yams .
Junkie son comes round begging for money but the father refuses him point blank . Son just continues begging until the father relents but he says the money must be used for necessities ie food and paying bills. Son leaves and heads straight for the nearest smack dealer.

[HibbyAndy]

This really is nearly the end eh?.

[#FromTheCapital]

I know what I would do with the badge and the name.

A big broon jobby all over it. Although you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference on the badge afterwards.

***** doesn't show on a maroon jersey

[3pm]

So they'll lose all their players for nowt like the Huns?!

[steakbake]

It's not looking good.

Which, of course, is a great shame.

[Waxy]

End game is round the corner.
When ubig call in the millions of debt haha.
What a swizz the Lithuanians have pulled off here.

[Just Alf]

What's this with players buying shares?

I won't feel sorry for any fool who throws his money on this mad gamble, then moans about not getting paid.

Fedotovas quoted in today's mail on Sunday saying they need the money fast to avoid further wage delays....... :D

[Jim44]

This really is nearly the end eh?.

I won't believe it's the end until the last nail goes into the coffin lid. For the moment, I'm just enjoying their squirming and denial.

[HibbyAndy]

I won't believe it's the end until the last nail goes into the coffin lid. For the moment, I'm just enjoying their squirming and denial.



Me tae Jim:agree: But this time i actually feel it in the gut, Where before it was all hopeful and just me hoping it was true but not really believing it, But this time i feel it aw right.. Few mates that are hearts fans ken its nearing the end too...Am feeling it Jim...Am hinking we aren't far away from what we all hoped for 5-6-7 years ago, The demise of Hearts is imminent.

God a feel like greetin!!!

[Billy Whizz]

Me tae Jim:agree: But this time i actually feel it in the gut, Where before it was all hopeful and just me hoping it was true but not really believing it, But this time i feel it aw right.. Few mates that are hearts fans ken its nearing the end too...Am feeling it Jim...Am hinking we aren't far away from what we all hoped for 5-6-7 years ago, The demise of Hearts is imminent.

God a feel like greetin!!!

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ games

[Saorsa]

It's not looking good.

Which, of course, is a great shame.looks quite good tae me :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

This really is nearly the end eh?.

I can't see it. There will be some last minute shenanigans and the 400,000 will breathe again.

[Geo_1875]

Me tae Jim:agree: But this time i actually feel it in the gut, Where before it was all hopeful and just me hoping it was true but not really believing it, But this time i feel it aw right.. Few mates that are hearts fans ken its nearing the end too...Am feeling it Jim...Am hinking we aren't far away from what we all hoped for 5-6-7 years ago, The demise of Hearts is imminent.

God a feel like greetin!!!

I too feel that they are fast approaching the end.

However, we must make sure that the Council and the Scottish Government do not get involved in any attempt to save them from their own folly.

While they would have no right to offer them any assistance you can guarantee that they will try it on.

[#FromTheCapital]

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ games

I would also like to see them suffer a bit. A few relentless pumpings care of the famous edinburgh hibees before dissapearing into oblivion would be my preferred course of action

[jonty]

8774
***** doesn't show on a maroon jersey

[Geo_1875]

I would also like to see them suffer a bit. A few relentless pumpings care of the famous edinburgh hibees before dissapearing into oblivion would be my preferred course of action

To be honest I'd rather they faced the embarrassment of not making it to the end of the season.

[Saorsa]

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ gamesI want tae see them completely and utterly eliminated.

[HibbyAndy]

I too feel that they are fast approaching the end.

However, we must make sure that the Council and the Scottish Government do not get involved in any attempt to save them from their own folly.

While they would have no right to offer them any assistance you can guarantee that they will try it on.

:agree:


Fair point...The council and government ( With all those ****bos!!! on the payroll) Will be hell bent on assisting in any way they can!!..But i fear (:greengrin) This may not be enough.


To the poster above that asked would i sacrifice derby's for their demise..One word answer - YES...Kill the *****...And kill them now!!!,

[cocopops1875]

I too feel that they are fast approaching the end.

However, we must make sure that the Council and the Scottish Government do not get involved in any attempt to save them from their own folly.

While they would have no right to offer them any assistance you can guarantee that they will try it on.

I think if this really is "END GAME" then neither the Cooncil or Government will have any way of helping, Cooncil plums cant be seen doing anything big for a 3rd div team or other MINORITY (god that was delicious) sports will be wanting their facility upgrades too Our Cooncil is in nearly as rough shape as the Hahahearts with more bad new from the trams just round the corner :agree::flag::flag::flag:

[Chibs]

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ games
Nope

[Baldy Foghorn]

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ games

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing these cretins go down the tubes, I hate them.....

I have to travel through Gorgay on my way into town, and it gives me the dry boak passing that stinking cess pit. Would make my journies much more pleasing if I was passing nice shiny flats or a supermarket.....Happy days on the horizon.....

[Jim44]

I too feel that they are fast approaching the end.

However, we must make sure that the Council and the Scottish Government do not get involved in any attempt to save them from their own folly.

While they would have no right to offer them any assistance you can guarantee that they will try it on.

That's why I refer to the very last nail because we know full well that the council and Salmond will pull out all the stops to save them or at least ensure a soft landing from which they can make a speedy recovery.

[BigKev]

I want tae see them completely and utterly eliminated.

100% This :agree:

[Www1875hfc]

I want tae see them completely and utterly eliminated.

:agree: Am wi Dan. :aok:

Ah've no had a drink in 20 years,ah'll be the drunkest **** in Penicuik when they go pop.

Perty in the royal. :na na:

[Billy McKirdy]

I want tae see them completely and utterly eliminated.

Ditto :agree:

[Saorsa]

100% This :agree:


:agree: Am wi Dan. :aok:

Ah've no had a drink in 20 years,ah'll be the drunkest **** in Penicuik when they go pop.

Perty in the royal. :na na:


Ditto :agree::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Barney McGrew]

I want tae see them completely and utterly eliminated.

:agree:

If you asked most of us ten years ago then the answer might have been different, but they can take their big team, tainted cup winning, moving on to a higher level, total and utter pish and wind they've been spouting since Romanov arrived and wrap it right round them.

I'll be the one sipping champagne outside the Tynie Arms when the bulldozers turn up ya maroon puddle drinking welts.

[Biggie]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm in

[Saorsa]

:agree:

If you asked most of us ten years ago then the answer might have been different, but they can take their big team, tainted cup winning, moving on to a higher level, total and utter pish and wind they've been spouting since Romanov arrived and wrap it right round them.

I'll be the one sipping champagne outside the Tynie Arms when the bulldozers turn up ya maroon puddle drinking welts.I've been wanting this since that FTB tried tae kill Hibs. I'll never forgive or forget that. I'm no fussed about the half dozen that turned up at HOH, 99% of them wanted tae see Hibs gone. I want them tae get everything that's coming their way and then some.


**** h****s

[Www1875hfc]

I've been wanting this since that FTB tried tae kill Hibs. I'll never forgive or forget that. I'm no fussed about the half dozen that turned up at HOH, 99% of them wanted tae see Hibs gone. I want them tae get everything that's coming their way and then some.

:applause:

Ditto.

8775

Can someone update the year for me please.

[big gogs]

i have no doubt the jambos on the council and local government will try every trick to save the hearts,but does anybody believe sir tom farmer will stand aside and watch,they never helped us in the past,they wouldnt be that stupid would they.i guess we will find out sooner rather than later

[Sammy7nil]

i have no doubt the jambos on the council and local government will try every trick to save the hearts,but does anybody believe sir tom farmer will stand aside and watch,they never helped us in the past,they wouldnt be that stupid would they.i guess we will find out sooner rather than later

I think there is no way STF would get involved far too classy for that.
If the council gave them preferential treatment RP would speak up but only to ask for parity

[Saorsa]

:applause:

Ditto.

8775

Can someone update the year for me please.http://i46.tinypic.com/2qnxuhd.jpg

[Www1875hfc]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2qnxuhd.jpg

Thanks Dan. :not worth

[SloopJB]

You surely don't want them to fold full stop do you. I hate Hearts more than most people, but I wouldn't mind seeing them squirming around for a bit. Lets be honest we would really miss the rivalry/ games

that's my stance.
There's no denying we've taken a hit with fewer fans from dundee than from rangers.
Take away hearts and replace them with who? falkirk?
keep taking away the larger travelling support and we will lose money too. or do you expect those without a club to just startsupporting Hibs?

[silverhibee]

They could be deid soon. Hpoefully very soon.

And when it does go pop for them we should have the biggest party Leith has ever seen.

Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock

And i agree with Dan too, wipe them of the planet. :lolyam::jamboclow:******::yamlaugh::titanic::brok enyam::casper:

[hibs0666]

that's my stance.
There's no denying we've taken a hit with fewer fans from dundee than from rangers.
Take away hearts and replace them with who? falkirk?
keep taking away the larger travelling support and we will lose money too. or do you expect those without a club to just startsupporting Hibs?

The big huns will be back soon enough, complete with a new battalion of Edinburgh huns. Macrae's Loyal perhaps?

[Onceinawhile]

The interest rate on the amount due will be charged at the judicial rate which is currently 8%. For just one year, that adds another £140,000 on to the bill. Add on penalties and it is eay to see how the total will eventually be close to £4m.
3.0% is hmrcs current late payment interest %. It has beenhigher than that but not since 2009.

[Iggy Pope]

that's my stance.
There's no denying we've taken a hit with fewer fans from dundee than from rangers.
Take away hearts and replace them with who? falkirk?
keep taking away the larger travelling support and we will lose money too. or do you expect those without a club to just startsupporting Hibs?

Why not? Maybe they'll start supporting Falkirk? That would be win / win.

FTH

[Kato]

the half dozen that turned up at HOH, 99% of them wanted tae see Hibs gone.


Has to be said this is a decent estimate.

[Hibeesforever]

End game is round the corner.
When ubig call in the millions of debt haha.
What a swizz the Lithuanians have pulled off here.

In the financial liquidation heirarchy HMRC get paid first. So, question is- if Ibrox is worth £5 million, how are the company currently known as Heart of Midlothian football club going to get a buyer that will pay enough to settle both HMRC and the mafia bank that props them up ?
I reckon the owner of Heart of Midlothian Football club has just realised that his £50 million business is actually worth close to zero!!!!
Hearts fans would be well advised to throw in the towel now and buy the ground back in the resultant fire sale.
Those of us who were around twenty years ago, just cannot believe the poetic justice.....

:flag::flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

In the financial liquidation heirarchy HMRC get paid first. So, question is- if Ibrox is worth £5 million, how are the company currently known as Heart of Midlothian football club going to get a buyer that will pay enough to settle both HMRC and the mafia bank that props them up ?
I reckon the owner of Heart of Midlothian Football club has just realised that his £50 million business is actually worth close to zero!!!!
Hearts fans would be well advised to throw in the towel now and buy the ground back in the resultant fire sale.
Those of us who were around twenty years ago, just cannot believe the poetic justice.....

:flag::flag:

No they don't. That used to be the case, but not now. The secured creditors (ie the bank) will be paid first.

[PatHead]

In the financial liquidation heirarchy HMRC get paid first. So, question is- if Ibrox is worth £5 million, how are the company currently known as Heart of Midlothian football club going to get a buyer that will pay enough to settle both HMRC and the mafia bank that props them up ?
I reckon the owner of Heart of Midlothian Football club has just realised that his £50 million business is actually worth close to zero!!!!
Hearts fans would be well advised to throw in the towel now and buy the ground back in the resultant fire sale.
Those of us who were around twenty years ago, just cannot believe the poetic justice.....

:flag::flag:

No they don't. Liquidators fees, Outstanding salaries then secured creditors get paid before HMRC who are just a normal creditor nowadays along with the electrician, football clubs etc.

Edit....CWG beat me to it......BTW doubt Hearts are worth as much as a pound

[Jim44]

You guys who want to stop at total extinction remind me of these scary horror movies where, at the climax, the baddie gets battered to the point where he is left for dead........ then the camera pans in and there is a tiny but distinct flicker of life ......... the camera retracts to the sound of psycho type music, the screen goes blank and the credits come up......... we're left hanging. Nah, the stake through the heart for me, please.

[Hibeesforever]

No they don't. That used to be the case, but not now. The secured creditors (ie the bank) will be paid first.

You have to be kidding me....the banks get paid before the tax payer, we the people ? our country is really in a mess. Okay, so HMRC place Hearts in administration / liquidation for non payment as a unsecured creditor, probably still the same outcome for both Vlad and his bank - zero back with Hearts supporters taking ownership. Outcome the same, third division for the Maroon scurge.

Hibees meanwhile partying in the city of Leith.


:flag:
:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

You have to be kidding me....the banks get paid before the tax payer, we the people ? our country is really in a mess. Okay, so HMRC place Hearts in administration / liquidation for non payment as a unsecured creditor, probably still the same outcome for both Vlad and his bank - zero back with Hearts supporters taking ownership. Outcome the same, third division for the Maroon scurge.

Hibees meanwhile partying in the city of Leith.


:flag:
:cb

It won't be zero back for the bank. It will be whatever the liquidator can get for the sale of the property, less their fees.

[.Sean.]

I hope they stay around until January, so we can give them a long overdue tanking on their own patch. Which we will.

[Jack Hackett]

Much as I want to see it, I don't think total extinction is on the cards just yet. Enough of them will 'invest' :faf: to keep them crawling along for a few months. Nowhere near what vlad needs, but he'll take what he can get from them, call it a 'glorious triumph for the loyal fans' and magic up the rest.

I think he's well aware they won't be able to scrape nearly £2M together. His sole aim in this is probably to minimize the hit he has to take. There's still money to be made out of the deluded fools before any plugs are pulled. He knows there's no fight in them, and he can and will take them for every penny he can squeeze.

The PBS will probably go soon, but he'll have to find a ground for them to squat before it happens. Wouldn't surprise me if another skint club offered to put them up for the rent money...as a magnanimous gesture, of course.

What we will get, is to watch them decline in humiliating poverty, seeing as they're a BIG team n'that. I for one will enjoy every effing minute of it

:lolyam:

[Spike Mandela]

Fedotovas quoted in today's mail on Sunday saying they need the money fast to avoid further wage delays....... :D

If the situation is as grave as he suggests then why are they only releasing 10% for sale at the moment? Why not 20, 30 0r even 40%?

[jacomo]

If the situation is as grave as he suggests then why are they only releasing 10% for sale at the moment? Why not 20, 30 0r even 40%?

100% at £1.79m would be way over the odds.

I think it's just Vlad seeing if the Yams really are stupid enough to give him a chunk of cash without having to give away any meaningful stake in the club.

Is it usual to sell a share issue using the 'please dig deep, we're ******ed' strategy?

[cabbageandribs1875]

maybe it's time to start calling hertz 'the sheep' instead of Aberdeen :vladsheep:



giving that crook £100 odd is not loyalty, it's total ****** stupidity

[Spike Mandela]

Anyone clued up on Lithuanian politics? Sergey perhaps? not sure if this is good or bad but my guess is it doesn't sound good for Vlad.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20113840

[Hibs07p]

I posted around 6 years ago, when all the tick tock and wishful thinking began about their ultimate demise, that Vlad could give the club away for nothing, and still make money from their dying club, all because of the interest due every year on the debt owed to him. As long as someone is prepared to take on that dying club, they have to pay him interest on their debt. Vlad has already made the threat, if UBIG decide to call in the loan, the club will be insolvent and face liquidation. I believe someone or some group will now attempt to get the club for as cheaply as possibly, and he will sell for as much as he can get, wiping his hands of the day to day running costs of the club, BUT he will still get interest on the debt every year. He will hold the threat of liquidation over the clubs owners until the debt is fully repaid. I believe there are Jambos stupid enough to get the club on these terms, because the only other option is extinction, and loss of history. I believe, Hearts will remain with their history, but future revenue streams severely hampered, will see Hearts struggle financially for years to come, and there is the payback for most Hibbies, competing on a level playing field once again.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom-english-buy-hearts-shares-or-live-with-results-1-2602698

It talks about the club being insolvent if it wasn’t for the ongoing support of Romanov’s UBIG, support that is guaranteed for this current season but will be “reassessed” on 1 July, 2013. “If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount, the Company would be insolvent and would face liquidation.” That’s Romanov effectively saying “I can shut this club down in the summer if I like…”

[greenginger]

I thought the story was UBIG had not been supporting Hearts financially since January and they were now required to fund themselves,at least that was the excuse for the last wages delay.

They make it up as they go along and change their position to suit the circumstances. "Administration not on the agenda", now rewind 12 months, is this not a repeat of the Craigy boy downward spiral over at Greyskull.

[lapsedhibee]

Today's i newspaper reporting Hearts' problems as being fall-out from the Huns being out of the SPL. No mention of the problems being the result of many years of yamathematical mismanagement.

[DaveF]

Today's i newspaper reporting Hearts' problems as being fall-out from the Huns being out of the SPL. No mention of the problems being the result of many years of yamathematical mismanagement.

I wondered how long it would take for some media outlets to start peddling nonsense like this :rolleyes:

[DarrenSQH]

Today's i newspaper reporting Hearts' problems as being fall-out from the Huns being out of the SPL. No mention of the problems being the result of many years of yamathematical mismanagement.

What a joke, even last season the wage bill was 8 million with an income of 7 million. Put tax bills and running the club on top of that and they would still be on their deathbead if they had real madrid in the league never mind rangers.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I wondered how long it would take for some media outlets to start peddling nonsense like this :rolleyes:

I agree, the Media will do anything to enforce their message on just how vital Derhun are to our game.... Nothing to do with years of total mismanagement from the yams of course....

[Alex Trager]

Can anyone get me up to date exactly with what they owe and why they are on the brink? Or even point me in the direction of something that can tell me. I never kept up to with rangers but want to with this

[Saorsa]

Today's i newspaper reporting Hearts' problems as being fall-out from the Huns being out of the SPL. No mention of the problems being the result of many years of yamathematical mismanagement.They were having problems long before the huns fell of their perch. IMO just a load of media bull**** tae try and make it look like they were right about the fallout from the huns getting punted.

[Caversham Green]

Can anyone get me up to date exactly with what they owe and why they are on the brink? Or even point me in the direction of something that can tell me. I never kept up to with rangers but want to with this

The short answer is no. The last published figures were for June 2011 when they had Net Debt of £24.03m (not the £22m they claim in their prospectus) and their total creditors (a far more relevant figure IMO) was £31.3m.

Any serious prospectus would give a far more up to date figure, particularly since the latest year end was four months ago, which suggests the current figures will be significantly higher, but there's no way of finding that out unless HoMFC release new accounts.

[grunt]

Any serious prospectus would give a far more up to date figure, particularly since the latest year end was four months ago, which suggests the current figures will be significantly higher, but there's no way of finding that out unless HoMFC release new accounts.
According to Fedovotas at the weekend, the Board "believes" they made a profit last year, without the need for debt forgiveness. As you say Cav, strange that this is only a belief when the year end was four months ago. I would be very interested to understand how they've made a profit, as they had an £8m shortfall the previous year.

[Thecat23]

Hearts are in real bother now. I think we should start snapping up the naming rights so that when they try and reform like Sevco the can't call themselves "the hearts" or anything else regarding the name Hearts as we will have bought the rights to them :greengrin:cb

On a serious note though, was told last night that it's actually a lot worse than what they are letting on. We've heard it a lot over the years and we can be forgiven for thinking it's just another rumour. But believe me I know a few folk in football who have close contacts with Hearts. He has said Admin really is on the cards now more than ever. Also said there is no chance of players wages being paid on time either next month. Will just have to wait and see if he's right.

[Jack Hackett]

Can anyone get me up to date exactly with what they owe and why they are on the brink? Or even point me in the direction of something that can tell me. I never kept up to with rangers but want to with this

Keep checking this link http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/obituaries :greengrin