Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[hibbymick]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the dominoes are starting to fall?

Or someones pulled the killer straw at ker plunk .

[Sergey]

“@jamiekborthwick: Lawyers for Ann Budge working hard to have Hearts shares vote held at UBIG creditors meeting next week. Report on STV News at 6 in the east.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What creditors meeting?

Pity I can't catch the STV story.

[jonty]

well, its gone six. what nonsense did STV spout? :greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

What creditors meeting?

Pity I can't catch the STV story.


I'm sure someone will post a link and save your disappointment :wink:

[GreenLake]

“@jamiekborthwick: Lawyers for Ann Budge working hard to have Hearts shares vote held at UBIG creditors meeting next week. Report on STV News at 6 in the east.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The irony of her lawyers not being able to make them budge does not escape me.

[hibbymick]

Well that reports cleared a lot up. :cb

Hamill prancing about like a total shareen was the highlight.

[inglisavhibs]

What creditors meeting?

Pity I can't catch the STV story.
STV had brief article with little substance bud did say there was a UBIG creditors meeting on Friday. Not convinced.

[GreenLake]

STV had brief article with little substance bud did say there was a UBIG creditors meeting on Friday. Not convinced.

So STV say there is a UBIG creditors meeting that the UBIG administrators know nothing about. :faf:

[PapillonVert]

That'll be Barry's source right there. There's no sign of a meeting though and UBIG's admin say there isn't one.

And anyway, why would Budge's lawyers take it on and not BDO?

She's keen to get her hands on the assets (the land, not the club or players).

[Pete]

The irony of her lawyers not being able to make them budge does not escape me.

Her lawyers couldn't even get her into the last Willie Bauld memorial dinner so they've no chance of influencing anything here.

[Sergey]

STV had brief article with little substance bud did say there was a UBIG creditors meeting on Friday. Not convinced.

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.

[Aldo]

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator). She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.

Pleasing.

[PatHead]

That'll be Barry's source right there. There's no sign of a meeting though and UBIG's admin say there isn't one.

And anyway, why would Budge's lawyers take it on and not BDO?

So that the Jambos think Budge has done everything it can when it all goes pop.

[GreenLake]

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.

:lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam:

[Aldo]

So that the Jambos think Budge has done everything it can when it all goes pop.

It's like they are all trying to cover their ***** which begs the question ..... WHY!!!
(And we all know the answer)

[The Falcon]

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.


And thats the money shot right there. :cb

[Dashing Bob S]

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.

I think you're being a little naive here Sergey. I'm sure Barry Anderson, Jamie Borthwick, FOH and Anne Budge's lawyers know far more about these procedures than the UBIG administrator.

:faf:

This really does get better every day. It's instructive that BDO is keeping well out of this particular fantasy. When you look at Budge, STV and Barry, you wonder who is the manipulator and who is the patsy?

[Coco Bryce]

So that the Jambos think Budge has done everything it can when it all goes pop.

Bingo!

[Kato]

I've said it before on this thread and this latest Budge bungle means it has to said again.

What a bunch of wallopers.

[GreenLake]

Budge's lawyers hard at work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcimIqmnSz8

[Kato]

You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession.

Can you imagine all the people out there saying "aye but, five-one-nineteen-o-two" to themselves over and over again just now.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can you imagine all the people out there saying "aye but, five-one-nineteen-o-two" to themselves over and over again just now.

You just spoiled my dinner

[CropleyWasGod]

Bazza on BT Sport tonight?

[PatHead]

Looks like we were all wrong. Just had a look on the Hearts ticketing website and only 5 out of 19 sections are sold out. They must have enough money and we are all Hobos.

[Bostonhibby]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the dominoes are starting to fall?

Big teams don't do dominoes.

More likely a ruined whist drive at the golf club snug or an upturned backgammon board somewhere in midlothian.

Meantime real jambos who go to games, or say they do are ripping up their bingo cards in frustration.

[Keith_M]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/crucial-day-looms-for-hearts-administration-hopes-1-3348802


Strangely enough, this story is no longer visible either on the Scotsman Home Page (where it was earlier today) or even the Sports Page.....



:hmmm:

[Mr White]

Strangely enough, this story is no longer visible either on the Scotsman Home Page (where it was earlier today) or even the Sports Page.....



:hmmm:

:faf: hibs.net has killed banderson as a journalist. Forever in our shadow barry.

[greenginger]

The irony of her lawyers not being able to make them budge does not escape me.


Her lawyers are DLA Piper, at least that is the outfit that set up Bidco 1874.


http://www.dlapiper.com/uk/

Worldwide operators. Pity they don't have a Lithuanian Office. :greengrin

[Gmack7]

looks like theres around 16000 there tonight

[greenginger]

looks like theres around 16000 there tonight


Dundee United bring 2000 down tonight then. :confused:

[Gmack7]

Dundee United bring 2000 down tonight then. :confused:

i forgot the:wink: in my post

[Mikey]

Strangely enough, this story is no longer visible either on the Scotsman Home Page (where it was earlier today) or even the Sports Page.....



:hmmm:

:hilarious

[Springbank]

Jump the gun

It's an anagram of Barry Anderson

[greenginger]

i forgot the:wink: in my post



:aok:

[Weststandwanab]

What creditors meeting?

Pity I can't catch the STV story. You will not be missing much.


STV had brief article with little substance bud did say there was a UBIG creditors meeting on Friday. Not convinced. Which Friday ?


Her lawyers couldn't even get her into the last Willie Bauld memorial dinner so they've no chance of influencing anything here. Men only, you think that would be illegal these days.


You'd be even less convinced if you saw the email exchange I've had with Irena Janulioniene (who's she I hear you ask - she's the UBIG administrator).

She's not aware of any meeting and deceit and lies don't mix well in her profession. Stop it that will drive them radio rental.


And thats the money shot right there. :cb That is a different Irena

[CropleyWasGod]

Strangely enough, this story is no longer visible either on the Scotsman Home Page (where it was earlier today) or even the Sports Page.....



:hmmm:

Gonny splain what you mean to an auld technophobe? I can still see it......

ps the auld technophobe has also mobilised his Twatter contacts to try and nail Bazza on BTSport tonight. :greengrin

[HiBremian]

Gonny splain what you mean to an auld technophobe? I can still see it......

ps the auld technophobe has also mobilised his Twatter contacts to try and nail Bazza on BTSport tonight. :greengrin

Well it seems to be on the "rumours" page, now:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-macheda-to-celtic-hearts-rangers-1-3348913

[CropleyWasGod]

Well it seems to be on the "rumours" page, now:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-macheda-to-celtic-hearts-rangers-1-3348913

And they're attributing it to the Daily Mail ? :confused:

"Oi... here's a buck... let me pass it to you...."

[jonty]

Well it seems to be on the "rumours" page, now:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/rumour-mill-macheda-to-celtic-hearts-rangers-1-3348913

And their source is the daily mail. :faf: buck passing already.:greengrin

[jonty]

Damn. Beaten by the technophobe :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Damn. Beaten by the technophobe :greengrin

My Twatter person typed that.

Talking of twats..... is he on at half time?

[GreenLake]

And they're attributing it to the Daily Mail ? :confused:

"Oi... here's a buck... let me pass it to you...."

:faf::faf::faf:

[Sergey]

Stop it that will drive them radio rental.

They're doubting the fact that I've been in touch with the administrator - sad really that it takes a sad-sack like me to garner the truth.

I hope Budges solicitors and legal team speak Lithuanian, as the UBIG admins don't speak one word of English.

[Kato]

And their source is the daily mail. :faf: buck passing already.:greengrin


The DM would have printed it today, filching it from Barry's "story" yesterday. Metro had it.

[Mikey]

If it's still available could someone copy it on here? I would but I'm on the phone.

Ta.

[GreenLake]

They're doubting the fact that I've been in touch with the administrator - sad really that it takes a sad-sack like me to garner the truth.

I hope Budges solicitors and legal team speak Lithuanian, as the UBIG admins don't speak one word of English.

Can you teach them to say GIRFUY?

[CropleyWasGod]

The DM would have printed it today, filching it from Barry's "story" yesterday. Metro had it.

It's a pretty low trick to step aside from the story now, and attribute it to someone else.

[CropleyWasGod]

If it's still available could someone copy it on here? I would but I'm on the phone.

Ta.

HEARTS are hoping to take a major step towards exiting administration next Friday when UBIG’s eagerly-awaited creditors meeting takes place.

The Tynecastle club need the creditors to agree to release the 50 per cent shareholding that is held by the collapsed Lithuanian investment company for a token fee of around £50,000. The transfer of the stake to new owner-in-waiting Ann Budge’s holding company (BIDCO) is regarded as one of the last significant hurdles to overcome in what has been a complex and protracted administration process. UBIG agreed to hand over the shareholding at the beginning of February but that decision has to be ratified by their creditors.

Millionaire businesswoman and Hearts season-ticket holder Budge is personally funding the £2.5 million for Ukio Bankas’ 29.9 per cent stake.

Former Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov’s fallen bank was due £15.5 million of the club’s total £28.5 million arrears and also held Tynecastle stadium as a security against its debt. UBIG, another of Romanov’s former companies, were owed £8.2 million. But even if Hearts’ administrators BDO get the result they are looking for next Friday, it could still be a matter of weeks before Budge is handed control at Tynecastle.

Behind the scenes, it is thought that mid-April is the earliest time that the new owner could take over. Budge is set to manage Hearts for a minimum of five years before handing over the majority shareholding to the Foundation of Hearts, who are backed by over 8,000 supporters making monthly direct debit contributions.

[KB1]

Another work of fiction from gorgie

"Heart of Midlothian (@JamTarts)
21/03/2014 21:04
Tonight's attendance is 13,448. Thanks to everyone here for their support"

Ground looks v empty to me

[GreenLake]

If it's still available could someone copy it on here? I would but I'm on the phone.

Ta.

Crucial day looms for Hearts administration hopes


By Darren Johnstone
HEARTS are hoping to take a major step towards exiting administration next Friday when UBIG’s eagerly-awaited creditors meeting takes place.


The Tynecastle club need the creditors to agree to release the 50 per cent shareholding that is held by the collapsed Lithuanian investment company for a token fee of around £50,000. The transfer of the stake to new owner-in-waiting Ann Budge’s holding company (BIDCO) is regarded as one of the last significant hurdles to overcome in what has been a complex and protracted administration process. UBIG agreed to hand over the shareholding at the beginning of February but that decision has to be ratified by their creditors.
Millionaire businesswoman and Hearts season-ticket holder Budge is personally funding the £2.5 million for Ukio Bankas’ 29.9 per cent stake.
Former Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov’s fallen bank was due £15.5 million of the club’s total £28.5 million arrears and also held Tynecastle stadium as a security against its debt. UBIG, another of Romanov’s former companies, were owed £8.2 million. But even if Hearts’ administrators BDO get the result they are looking for next Friday, it could still be a matter of weeks before Budge is handed control at Tynecastle.
Behind the scenes, it is thought that mid-April is the earliest time that the new owner could take over. Budge is set to manage Hearts for a minimum of five years before handing over the majority shareholding to the Foundation of Hearts, who are backed by over 8,000 supporters making monthly direct debit contributions.


Edit: Slower than CWG and technically less competent

[PatHead]

At 7 30 tonight only 5 sections had sold out from 19. Obviously tons of empty seats.

[Kato]

It's a pretty low trick to step aside from the story now, and attribute it to someone else.

True but we're talking about the press here, which makes it just averagely low.

Orwellian or what?

Let's see if any forelock tuggers will look towards their pitchforks.

Probably just scratch their jeer, pull the joggers up and proudly put the 5-1 DVD on.

[CropleyWasGod]

Edit: Slower than CWG and technically less competent[/FONT][/COLOR]

But aesthetically much more attractive :greengrin

[MrSmith]

At 7 30 tonight only 5 sections had sold out from 19. Obviously tons of empty seats.

I live in Smithfield Street and I can report the following: I got my car parked, there is little noise coming from the stadium, the streets are empty and I think the old saying may be right ... The lights are on but no-ones home!

[GreenLake]

I live in Smithfield Street and I can report the following: I got my car parked, there is little noise coming from the stadium, the streets are empty and I think the old saying may be right ... The lights are on but no-ones home!

The shares are still parked in Jack Frost's 401K plan.

[3pm]

Locke seems to think there is a meeting on Friday.

[Coco Bryce]

Locke seems to think there is a meeting on Friday.

As does the bird from BT

[CropleyWasGod]

As does the bird from BT

Bazza and Ian Murray were billed to be on the programme tonight. Clearly he has shared his exclusive with her.

He's dingying Tweets though.

[Gus Fring]

According to my source who was at tonights game the chat was that nobody had heard a thing about this meeting until it was mentioned by Barry and they reckon everyone else is just copying him now. Barry was asked before the match and was adamant he's got good info but wasn't telling anyone where it was coming from. You'll all recall something similar happened with both the Wonga deal and then the Adam King deal. There was actually a poster on here who confirmed both of those to be well off the mark as well. Can't remember what username he used though.

It appears they are all so desperate for good news and fearing for their jobs they'll cling to anything at the moment. A lot of them know that even if they do get out of Administration they'll likely be let go anyway as Championship clubs don't have the need for level of staffing Hearts currently have.

Regarding Borthwicks claims that Anne Budgies lawyers are working on this, if they are they won't be doing so in an official capacity. They'll probably just be advising BDO.

[Mikey]

According to my source who was at tonights game the chat was that nobody had heard a thing about this meeting until it was mentioned by Barry and they reckon everyone else is just copying him now. Barry was asked before the match and was adamant he's got good info but wasn't telling anyone where it was coming from. You'll all recall something similar happened with both the Wonga deal and then the Adam King deal. There was actually a poster on here who confirmed both of those to be well off the mark as well. Can't remember what username he used though.

It appears they are all so desperate for good news and fearing for their jobs they'll cling to anything at the moment. A lot of them know that even if they do get out of Administration they'll likely be let go anyway as Championship clubs don't have the need for level of staffing Hearts currently have.

Regarding Borthwicks claims that Anne Budgies lawyers are working on this, if they are they won't be doing so in an official capacity. They'll probably just be advising BDO.

Sounds splendid :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

According to my source who was at tonights game the chat was that nobody had heard a thing about this meeting until it was mentioned by Barry and they reckon everyone else is just copying him now. Barry was asked before the match and was adamant he's got good info but wasn't telling anyone where it was coming from. You'll all recall something similar happened with both the Wonga deal and then the Adam King deal. There was actually a poster on here who confirmed both of those to be well off the mark as well. Can't remember what username he used though.

It appears they are all so desperate for good news and fearing for their jobs they'll cling to anything at the moment. A lot of them know that even if they do get out of Administration they'll likely be let go anyway as Championship clubs don't have the need for level of staffing Hearts currently have.

Regarding Borthwicks claims that Anne Budgies lawyers are working on this, if they are they won't be doing so in an official capacity. They'll probably just be advising BDO.

Jumbo Jim. :greengrin

[Glesgahibby]

Still nothing from BDO,but a strange " we beleive so " tweet from FOH regarding creditors meeting.
Nothing can be found online officially and two different sources on here stating a UBIG admin denial.
add to the fire a deflection regarding source of meeting date from bazza the all knowing.
My money's on :hibees
:greengrin

[clerriehibs]

Still nothing from BDO,but a strange " we beleive so " tweet from FOH regarding creditors meeting.
Nothing can be found online officially and two different sources on here stating a UBIG admin denial.
add to the fire a deflection regarding source of meeting date from bazza the all knowing.
My money's on :hibees
:greengrin

They are seething over there ; they don't say as much, but it obviously grates like hell that any decent info comes from those in the know on hibs.net

[davcar]

What a momentous week next week promises to be, let's hope Hibs do the biz tomorrow to keep the feel good factor in a high premium position to finally see them relegated, and a further no show on the frozen shares would top the lot! :greengrin

[Sergey]

According to my source who was at tonights game the chat was that nobody had heard a thing about this meeting until it was mentioned by Barry and they reckon everyone else is just copying him now. Barry was asked before the match and was adamant he's got good info but wasn't telling anyone where it was coming from. You'll all recall something similar happened with both the Wonga deal and then the Adam King deal. There was actually a poster on here who confirmed both of those to be well off the mark as well. Can't remember what username he used though.

It appears they are all so desperate for good news and fearing for their jobs they'll cling to anything at the moment. A lot of them know that even if they do get out of Administration they'll likely be let go anyway as Championship clubs don't have the need for level of staffing Hearts currently have.

Regarding Borthwicks claims that Anne Budgies lawyers are working on this, if they are they won't be doing so in an official capacity. They'll probably just be advising BDO.

Is this how far Scottish/British journalism has stooped?

Not too surprising - if I'm being honest (shoot me down) the Daily Record is by far and away the best rag in Scotland - if it ain't in the DR - it normally ain't a story.

Barry Anderson couldn't wipe my a_rse

[Glesgahibby]

They are seething over there ; they don't say as much, but it obviously grates like hell that any decent info comes from those in the know on hibs.net
:agree: There's currently 213 guests "welcome truth seekers" looking in right now :greengrin

[Just Alf]

Is this how far Scottish/British journalism has stooped?

Not too surprising - if I'm being honest (shoot me down) the Daily Record is by far and away the best rag in Scotland - if it ain't in the DR - it normally ain't a story.

Barry Anderson couldn't wipe my a_rse

First FOH heard about it was when a KB'r asked them if the rumours were true..... As far as I can find out the very first mention was on brokeback, so come on, which one of you lot are twisting the knife with those poor souls?

:D

[wills]

What happens if the creditors don't accept the transfer of shares and hearts stay in administration into the start of next season, will there be another point deduction?

[CropleyWasGod]

What happens if the creditors don't accept the transfer of shares and hearts stay in administration into the start of next season, will there be another point deduction?

Yes. 15.

[lapsedhibee]

What happens if the creditors don't accept the transfer of shares and hearts stay in administration into the start of next season, will there be another point deduction?

Yes, you'll start at -15 again.

[wills]

Yes. 15.
Result

[Dashing Bob S]

First FOH heard about it was when a KB'r asked them if the rumours were true..... As far as I can find out the very first mention was on brokeback, so come on, which one of you lot are twisting the knife with those poor souls?

:D

Starting to find all this somewhat cruel now. Like picking on the kid at school who is just a bit slow. And I'm not being ironic.

[Gus Fring]

There's less and less of them prepared to mock us over there now as they've slowly started to realise that the info is accurate more often than not.

They have a thread mocking this thread which is entitled "Financial Meltdown" during a period where they are experiencing a financial meltdown.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

BDO'S Jackson looked a worried chap on stv today.
Crying shame.

[Coco Bryce]

Poor Barry. If this meeting doesn't go ahead as implied he'll be finished as a journo.

[CentreLine]

Yes, you'll start at -15 again.

That will be one five. That's also got to be the 1902nd time it's been mentioned in this thread. I do wish people would keep up.

[Saorsa]

Poor Barry. If this meeting doesn't go ahead as implied he'll be finished as a journo.Never realised he'd started as one!

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO'S Jackson looked a worried chap on stv today.
Crying shame.

Thought he was in Milan?

:cb

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Locke seems to think there is a meeting on Friday.

I think there is, but the worry for them is that the big team may not even get discussed at said meeting.

Crying shame for the Bonnyrigg c(l)ock(e).

[CropleyWasGod]

I think there is, but the worry for them is that the big team may not even get discussed at said meeting.

Crying shame for the Bonnyrigg c(l)ock(e).

On what grounds?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Thought he was in Milan?

:cb

who knows, but the footage showed the old dog looking rather glum.

[K-Zazu]

There's less and less of them prepared to mock us over there now as they've slowly started to realise that the info is accurate more often than not.

They have a thread mocking this thread which is entitled "Financial Meltdown" during a period where they are experiencing a financial meltdown.

Spot on.

[Sergey]

There's less and less of them prepared to mock us over there now as they've slowly started to realise that the info is accurate more often than not.

They have a thread mocking this thread which is entitled "Financial Meltdown" during a period where they are experiencing a financial meltdown.

It's always amazed me why the Yams didn't get a decent source in LT to feed them information. FBK Kaunas were scammed and they must have had a number of folks who could have drip-fed info as to the financial machinations - yet they trusted Fedotovas and the UBIG spin. Big mistake by them on that one.

I met my contact by accident...simply by asking a leading question an another forum. It turns out that my contact is closer to the action than most. Right in the sights of the current Ukio administrator, Adomonis...who was a nonentity prior to the insolvency/admin.

Amazing how things can spiral - and how speaking fluent Lithuanian can assist.

Nothing wrong with a Bo'ness education :greengrin

[poolman]

I live in Smithfield Street and I can report the following: I got my car parked, there is little noise coming from the stadium, the streets are empty and I think the old saying may be right ... The lights are on but no-ones home!


I live in Wardlaw Place, nipped into the Diggers on way home Fae work ( its ma local ) place was nowhere nearly as busy as a usual for a home game

[Jack]

There's less and less of them prepared to mock us over there now as they've slowly started to realise that the info is accurate more often than not.

They have a thread mocking this thread which is entitled "Financial Meltdown" during a period where they are experiencing a financial meltdown.

Its a disgrace they don't keep the title up to date!

[Jim44]

I think there is, but the worry for them is that the big team may not even get discussed at said meeting.

Crying shame for the Bonnyrigg c(l)ock(e).

So you reckon Sergey's 'horse's mouth' source is unreliable or an invention?

[Eyrie]

Maybe I'm being dopier than normal, but if it only takes £50k to buy 50% of the shares then why don't Save Hearts In Trouble use the diddie money to buy the UBIG holding and get Budge to buy the other 29% for them from UKIO with a security over the PBS? Save Hearts In Trouble get control earlier and can pay her back the £2.5m over five years as intended. If they don't repay her then she can call in the security and recover her money by selling a prime residential site in south Murrayfield for £5.5m.

Note - the above assumes that the shares are defrosted.

[robinp]

So you reckon Sergey's 'horse's mouth' source is unreliable or an invention?

In my mind there are 3 possible explanations/outcomes:

There is no meeting and the ADMIN has emailed me and Sergey telling the truth.
There is a meeting and the UBIG administrator lied about it to both me and Sergey during separate email exchanges.
There is a Jambo who has hacked the UBIG administrators email account, can type fluent Lithuanian and is trying to make both Sergey and I to be prize idiots by pretending there is no meeting.

Her details are on the Lithuanian Finance Ministry Website on the appointment page for corporate insolvencies on the listing for UBIG. This isn't rocket science that we have carried out in the last 48hrs; she's the administrator and if a meeting has been called, it is called by her, so she should know.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe I'm being dopier than normal, but if it only takes £50k to buy 50% of the shares then why don't Save Hearts In Trouble use the diddie money to buy the UBIG holding and get Budge to buy the other 29% for them from UKIO with a security over the PBS? Save Hearts In Trouble get control earlier and can pay her back the £2.5m over five years as intended. If they don't repay her then she can call in the security and recover her money by selling a prime residential site in south Murrayfield for £5.5m.

Note - the above assumes that the shares are defrosted.

Because Budge wants control?

In your scenario, she would only have 29% of the shares. If she has invested all that money, she'd want to keep control until she was sure that she was getting it back. For all she knew, the other 71% could be in the hands of f'wits :greengrin

Besides, the CVA has already been proposed with FOH buying the UBIG (and UKIO?) shares. Don't think it can be changed this late on.

[CropleyWasGod]

who knows, but the footage showed the old dog looking rather glum.

No wonder. Have you seen the price of a cappuccino out there?

[GreenLake]

Because Budge wants control?

In your scenario, she would only have 29% of the shares. If she has invested all that money, she'd want to keep control until she was sure that she was getting it back. For all she knew, the other 71% could be in the hands of f'wits :greengrin

:faf:

[greenginger]

In my mind there are 3 possible explanations/outcomes:

There is no meeting and the ADMIN has emailed me and Sergey telling the truth.
There is a meeting and the UBIG administrator lied about it to both me and Sergey during separate email exchanges.
There is a Jambo who has hacked the UBIG administrators email account, can type fluent Lithuanian and is trying to make both Sergey and I to be prize idiots by pretending there is no meeting.

Her details are on the Lithuanian Finance Ministry Website on the appointment page for corporate insolvencies on the listing for UBIG. This isn't rocket science that we have carried out in the last 48hrs; she's the administrator and if a meeting has been called, it is called by her, so she should know.

4th explanation.

There is a meeting and the UBIG admin. thinks you and Sergey are a couple of Russian hit-men working for Vlad and dos'nt want you turning up at the meeting. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

4th explanation.

There is a meeting and the UBIG admin. thinks you and Sergey are a couple of Russian hit-men working for Vlad and dos'nt want you turning up at the meeting. :greengrin

RobinP?

Russian hitmen?

WTF?

[GreenLake]

4th explanation.

There is a meeting and the UBIG admin. thinks you and Sergey are a couple of Russian hit-men working for Vlad and dos'nt want you turning up at the meeting. :greengrin

5th explanation. The admins think Hearts are a hornets nest they wish would go away - and they will very shortly if they just do nothing.

[BroxburnHibee]

6th explanation.......robinp, Sergey and Bajillions are all yams at the wind up :tee hee:

[3pm]

6th explanation.......robinp, Sergey and Bajillions are all yams at the wind up :tee hee:

I thought they were all the same person?

[CentreLine]

who knows, but the footage showed the old dog looking rather glum.

Archive footage from when he was just getting to grips with the task ahead.

[MurrayfieldHibs]

6th explanation.......robinp, Sergey and Bajillions are all yams at the wind up :tee hee:

7th explanation.... robinp, Sergey and Bajillions are all Bryan Jackson and this is all part of a cunning plan that will be revealed on the 1st of April :wink:

[Greenworld]

I am finding all of this strange why the media silence....Foh silence
...bdo silence...

We say no meeting.........kick say yes meeting...

Or should I just stay silent.....

[Ronniekirk]

5th explanation. The admins think Hearts are a hornets nest they wish would go away - and they will very shortly if they just do nothing.
True but the converse could be they are sick fed up of Brian Jackson turning up pleading the Special dispensation for Hear7s case and forming a secret branch of a new Heart7 s Supporters Club in Lithuania filled withMafioso and Polit Bureau Types that are corrupt and have Infiltrated the Judiciary ?They have become Sutch hard core supporters they now want to have their secret Meeting right before the Derby to Further Rubber Stamp a New Memorandum Of Understanding which will contain a plan to Annexe Leith and unfreeze the Shares and hand them over to Budge at a ceremony before kick off when it will be formally announce they are exiting Administration and Rudi will be playing in the game :wink:
All to far fetched I hear you say :confused: it's too hard to Digestive ( only way I could get the biscuits in )

If you are desperate to Believe and Delusional already then they are going to be predisposed to listen to any story being peddled that justifies their Direct Debit Sacrifices They are not like Hobbits and Truth Seekers they will continue to perpetrate the lies the myths as they approach Relegation /liquidation They abandoned Sporting Integrity and now they are just Abandoning Integrity full stop .
The delusion is now so indelibly ingrained in their Sub Consciousness they have nothing left to turn to .They and Ann won't Budge .
In the meantime we have a Party to look Forward to beating Hear7s at Tynie ,admittedly only by one goal and in a game that won't live long in the memory for Aesthetic Football .But we will finally witness them sliding into Oblivion and getting their comeuppance .:rules::party:@gdown::cheerio:

[7062]

Just watched the highlights of last nights game. Them v Dundee Utd. And then read Gary Locke:

"To get 13,500 on a Friday night is nothing short of incredible. We can't thank the fans enough."

Come on Gaz. Who are you trying to kid?? For that to be the attendance you're basically looking at a sold out home end and an empty away end (cos there must have only been a few hundred Dundee Utd fans).

[lapsedhibee]

I thought they were all the same person?They are, but not as any of the three mentioned. :agree:

[Kojock]

Just watched the highlights of last nights game. Them v Dundee Utd. And then read Gary Locke:

"To get 13,500 on a Friday night is nothing short of incredible. We can't thank the fans enough."

Come on Gaz. Who are you trying to kid?? For that to be the attendance you're basically looking at a sold out home end and an empty away end (cos there must have only been a few hundred Dundee Utd fans).

900 and odd Utd fans.

[greenginger]

http://www.lrytas.lt/lietuvos-diena/aktualijos/v-romanovas-zudikai-is-lietuvos-turejo-mane-nusauti.htm


This is an article in today's Lithuanian Press about an interview with our Prince. It links in with a Heart of Midlothian search so they must get a mention.

I can't seem to progress from page 1 of the article.

Maybe Google Translate ( Lithuanian Format ) is being overworked by brokebackers at the moment. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Jamboeyrie on Kickback; "The club's parent company, Forth Investments plc, entered receivership in 1991.Sir Tom Farmer acquired control of the club from the receiver for £3 million and creditors were bumped"

No creditors of Hibernian Football Club were "bumped", in 1991 in much the same way that no one was "bumped" by Hearts in 1905, despite the club being liquidated. In both instances all debts pertaining to the football club (s) were paid post insolvency. Both events were a paper excercise (Farmer had control of Hibs for almost a year prior to administration) and achieved the outcome desired for the respective owners.

In 1991 Hibs could have bumped a lot of debt, as could Hearts in 1905, but they didn't.

Different times, different people, different values from the Hearts of today.

[Springbank]

Jamboeyrie on Kickback; "The club's parent company, Forth Investments plc, entered receivership in 1991.Sir Tom Farmer acquired control of the club from the receiver for £3 million and creditors were bumped"

No creditors of Hibernian Football Club were "bumped", in 1991 in much the same way that no one was "bumped" by Hearts in 1905, despite the club being liquidated. In both instances all debts pertaining to the football club (s) were paid post insolvency. Both events were a paper excercise (Farmer had control of Hibs for almost a year prior to administration) and achieved the outcome desired for the respective owners.

In 1991 Hibs could have bumped a lot of debt, as could Hearts in 1905, but they didn't.

Different times, different people, different values from the Hearts of today.

I think this is a great post

The saddest part of all this is that the younger generation of jambos don't care that their heroes from 2012 sold their soul and their history to do it.

Bumping the poppy fund but trying to convince the world this was the same club as the club of macrae etc... Ouch.

They've stopped being the club they were
The penny hasn't dropped yet, as this season they engineered "a cause" and it was all an sfa conspiracy etc

But next year all of that gloss and make up gets stripped away
The penny will drop and drop quickly
All it will take is a clutch of poor results to Dumbarton etc

Stage 1 - expect Gary locke to take blame
Stage 2 - demands for new players
Stage 3 - creeping realisation that even if there was no sfa / spfl embargo, they can't afford the quality of player they used to watch during the financial suicide years

Stage 4 - and heres the bit - they'll start walking away, you'll hear things like "Scottish footballs finished"
Never hearts fault you realise
Always someone else's

But same outcome - 5000 crowds max

[Bostonhibby]

No creditors of Hibernian Football Club were "bumped", in 1991 in much the same way that no one was "bumped" by Hearts in 1905, despite the club being liquidated. In both instances all debts pertaining to the football club (s) were paid post insolvency. Both events were a paper excercise (Farmer had control of Hibs for almost a year prior to administration) and achieved the outcome desired for the respective owners.

In 1991 Hibs could have bumped a lot of debt, as could Hearts in 1905, but they didn't.

Different times, different people, different values from the Hearts of today.

:agree: All correct, Was a shareholder pre and post 1991 and this was all known at the time, sadly for this generation and mentality of yam there was no "bumping" jeez, you'd think they would be able to know a bumping when they see one by now. If they were used to seeing, never mind interpreting published and certified accounts they'd know this was the case.

Not so much a cheap shot as a desperate sounding distraction even if it was accurate. We are and have been paying our bills for decades. Often to the very same businesses, taxman and charities that they errrrrrrrrr...................bumped.

[matty_f]

:agree: All correct, Was a shareholder pre and post 1991 and this was all known at the time, sadly for this generation and mentality of yam there was no "bumping" jeez, you'd think they would be able to know a bumping when they see one by now. If they were used to seeing, never mind interpreting published and certified accounts they'd know this was the case.

Not so much a cheap shot as a desperate sounding distraction even if it was accurate. We are and have been paying our bills for decades. Often to the very same businesses, taxman and charities that they errrrrrrrrr...................bumped.

It's yam straw-clutching at it's very worst. :agree:

[jdships]

:agree: All correct, Was a shareholder pre and post 1991 and this was all known at the time, sadly for this generation and mentality of yam there was no "bumping" jeez, you'd think they would be able to know a bumping when they see one by now. If they were used to seeing, never mind interpreting published and certified accounts they'd know this was the case.

Not so much a cheap shot as a desperate sounding distraction even if it was accurate. We are and have been paying our bills for decades. Often to the very same businesses, taxman and charities that they errrrrrrrrr...................bumped.




Great posts from you and Boston !!:top marks
My son and I were both shareholders at that time as well as being friends with STF since the 1960's .
I was also involved in the Mercer fiasco and some of the subsequent " negotiations /discussions" that went on leading up to STF's involvement and everything you write is correct in principle :thumbsup:
Smacks of Yam desperation !!

:flag:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Have they received their shares yet?!?

[Weststandwanab]

Locke seems to think there is a meeting on Friday.To costly to print.


I live in Wardlaw Place, nipped into the Diggers on way home Fae work ( its ma local ) place was nowhere nearly as busy as a usual for a home game

[Eyrie]

Because Budge wants control?

In your scenario, she would only have 29% of the shares. If she has invested all that money, she'd want to keep control until she was sure that she was getting it back. For all she knew, the other 71% could be in the hands of f'wits :greengrin

Besides, the CVA has already been proposed with FOH buying the UBIG (and UKIO?) shares. Don't think it can be changed this late on.

Thanks Sergey/robinp/CWG/Bajillions.

So Budge will keep control until Save Hearts In Trouble have scraped together enough direct debits to buy her out in full. That's going to take a lot longer than five years once they start struggling in the lower leagues, leading to attendances decreasing and DD cancellations increasing.

[Geo_1875]

Where has this 5 year plan come from? I thought they were going to be fan owned in 3.

[CropleyWasGod]

Where has this 5 year plan come from? I thought they were going to be fan owned in 3.

They will be when FOH have raised £6.3m. However long that takes.

[Mikey]

Right, let's have a look at what we know regarding this alleged meeting..........

Barry Anderson broke the story and we don't know his source.

BDO have said nothing.

Our man in the PBS has heard nothing.

FoH initially said that there was no meeting and are now just responding to press speculation by saying that they believe there is a meeting.

UBIG's Administrator has been contacted directly by 2 users on this site and the answer given was "I do not have any information about such a meeting". That's a direct quote by the way............ from UBIG's Administrator, not some BDO tea boy.

Notice has been given for every other UBIG (and UKIO) meeting but there's nothing to be found for this one.


So one of two things has happened here.......

There's a monumental cover up going on, just for the benefit of Hearts, and by leaking the story Barry Anderson has made a complete arse of himself.

There's no meeting and Barry Anderson has made a complete arse of himself.

Anyone see a link? :hilarious

[tomf]

I have amused myself over recent years by writing down (for my own amusement) some of the "facts" and figures associated with the financial mess that is HoM. One of the things that has been consistent over the years has been the reasonably lucid and rational comments on the situation on this forum. There are so many serious questions that are raised when a financial crime is committed; especially when it is compounded by idiotic comments from the media, the fans and the club. Simply considering the current situation where, as far as I can see, there are three major stumbling blocks to the smooth purchase and survival of HoM, namely, the "frozen" shares, the ownership (and value) of the land / ground and the longer term financial viability of the club. Even with a meeting next week where the outcome somehow miraculously provides a clear road for the exit from administation there is still the issue of the future. If there are any of the deluded ones looking in, there are some other issues that you might want clarification on...Exactly how many shares are there in HoM? (I make it 283 million (as ludicrous as it sounds) but I am happy for anyone to check the figures for themselves). If Ms Budge can purchase a majority for £50K then that should give you an idea of how much they have come down in value. Is that a good investment, and if so, why? Is due diligence an issue in terms of the purchase of the club and, if so, what happens in the event of the discovery of criminal activity? For instance, what happened to the £1.8 million that the fans paid for shares that, as far as I am aware, were never issued? Will Ms Budge provide the shares? Did the shares ever exist? If not, isn't that a crime and has it been, or will it be, reported? What is the market value of the land and why would any creditor or administator be prepared to sell it at anything less than maket value and can Ms Budge or FoH afford to pay the market price as well as maintain the PBS? Just a few of the many points that come to mind...but good luck next week with that meeting.

[Jack Hackett]

Right, let's have a look at what we know regarding this alleged meeting..........

Barry Anderson broke the story and we don't know his source.

BDO have said nothing.

Our man in the PBS has heard nothing.

FoH initially said that there was no meeting and are now just responding to press speculation by saying that they believe there is a meeting.

UBIG's Administrator has been contacted directly by 2 users on this site and the answer given was "I do not have any information about such a meeting". That's a direct quote by the way............ from UBIG's Administrator, not some BDO tea boy.

Notice has been given for every other UBIG (and UKIO) meeting but there's nothing to be found for this one.


So one of two things has happened here.......

There's a monumental cover up going on, just for the benefit of Hearts, and by leaking the story Barry Anderson has made a complete arse of himself.

There's no meeting and Barry Anderson has made a complete arse of himself.

Anyone see a link? :hilarious


Here's a link http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-administration-wonga-give-cash-boost-1-2979230.....unfortunately, I can't link to the tweet where he claimed it was a million quid 'cos he's deleted it :jamboclow

[Dashing Bob S]

I strongly believe that there will be a meeting of the Carrick Knowe Bowling Club committee next week.

Furthermore, I'm certain that the purchasing of pork scratchings to be served as bar snacks is on the agenda.

I know that the chairman and secretary of the bowling club know nothing about this meeting.

I'm not a member of the Carrick Knowe Bowling club myself.

In fact I've never been to Edinburgh, I'm Lithuanian.

How do I know? I'm not saying but I'm a reporter on a local rag so it's my business to know these things.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have amused myself over recent years by writing down (for my own amusement) some of the "facts" and figures associated with the financial mess that is HoM. One of the things that has been consistent over the years has been the reasonably lucid and rational comments on the situation on this forum. There are so many serious questions that are raised when a financial crime is committed; especially when it is compounded by idiotic comments from the media, the fans and the club. Simply considering the current situation where, as far as I can see, there are three major stumbling blocks to the smooth purchase and survival of HoM, namely, the "frozen" shares, the ownership (and value) of the land / ground and the longer term financial viability of the club. Even with a meeting next week where the outcome somehow miraculously provides a clear road for the exit from administation there is still the issue of the future. If there are any of the deluded ones looking in, there are some other issues that you might want clarification on...Exactly how many shares are there in HoM? (I make it 283 million (as ludicrous as it sounds) but I am happy for anyone to check the figures for themselves). If Ms Budge can purchase a majority for £50K then that should give you an idea of how much they have come down in value. Is that a good investment, and if so, why? Is due diligence an issue in terms of the purchase of the club and, if so, what happens in the event of the discovery of criminal activity? For instance, what happened to the £1.8 million that the fans paid for shares that, as far as I am aware, were never issued? Will Ms Budge provide the shares? Did the shares ever exist? If not, isn't that a crime and has it been, or will it be, reported? What is the market value of the land and why would any creditor or administator be prepared to sell it at anything less than maket value and can Ms Budge or FoH afford to pay the market price as well as maintain the PBS? Just a few of the many points that come to mind...but good luck next week with that meeting.

All excellent points.

I would clarify the bit in bold, however. If the CVA goes through, the land and property are part of the deal. They are owned by HMFC. Therefore UBIG and UKIO transferring the shares in HMFC to FOH/AB effectively transfers the PBS as well.

There is no separate deal for the PBS, if that's what you mean. £2.5m gets the lot.

[Dashing Bob S]

All excellent points.

I would clarify the bit in bold, however. If the CVA goes through, the land and property are part of the deal. They are owned by HMFC. Therefore UBIG and UKIO transferring the shares in HMFC to FOH/AB effectively transfers the PBS as well.

There is no separate deal for the PBS, if that's what you mean. £2.5m gets the lot.

But if the CVA doesn't go through, as now seems likely...

[GreenLake]

All excellent points.

I would clarify the bit in bold, however. If the CVA goes through, the land and property are part of the deal. They are owned by HMFC. Therefore UBIG and UKIO transferring the shares in HMFC to FOH/AB effectively transfers the PBS as well.

There is no separate deal for the PBS, if that's what you mean. £2.5m gets the lot.

And that right there, as they say, is the rub.

[greenpaper55]

Banderson still mentioning this meeting in the Hearts article in todays EN and a part quote" On a more positive note, Locke welcome the news revealed by the Evening News on Thursday that a creditors meeting in Lithuania next week could help Hearts exit administratio" still spouting his p***.
.

[Winston Ingram]

Banderson still mentioning this meeting in the Hearts article in todays EN and a part quote" On a more positive note, Locke welcome the news revealed by the Evening News on Thursday that a creditors meeting in Lithuania next week could help Hearts exit administratio" still spouting his p***.
.

So Hearts don't know about it, FoH don't know about it, BDO don't know about it but Banderson it's Banderson that tells Gary Locke:greengrin

You would have thought someone in anofficial capacity would have bother to phone or email to check in the few days since Banderson 1st mentioned it. Yet still no confirmations

[stevejordan]

Banderson still mentioning this meeting in the Hearts article in todays EN and a part quote" On a more positive note, Locke welcome the news revealed by the Evening News on Thursday that a creditors meeting in Lithuania next week could help Hearts exit administratio" still spouting his p***.
.

Did he mention what time it starts at and if there will be tea and coffee available ?

[GreenLake]

Banderson still mentioning this meeting in the Hearts article in todays EN and a part quote" On a more positive note, Locke welcome the news revealed by the Evening News on Thursday that a creditors meeting in Lithuania next week could help Hearts exit administratio" still spouting his p***.
.

I wonder what other creditors meeting he is talking about other than the UBIG creditors meeting which the UBIG Administrator claimed was not taking place. Are they trying to get UBIG to transfer the shares behind the Administrator's back?

[CropleyWasGod]

They can't . The administrator has possession of them.

[Moulin Yarns]

They can't . The administrator has possession of them.

But I thought this man had them?

The_Iceman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iceman_(film))

[Phil D. Rolls]

I wonder what other creditors meeting he is talking about other than the UBIG creditors meeting which the UBIG Administrator claimed was not taking place. Are they trying to get UBIG to transfer the shares behind the Administrator's back?

You get the impression they are up to something. All this mention of Mrs. Budges lawyers trying to do deals, suggests they are trying to find some way round things in Lt.

Why so desperate for it to be done by next Friday though? It's as if they are saying "next Friday or bust" meaning all involved will (have to) walk away if no deal is done. Months ago Jackson hinted at the end of March being a cut off point.

Pleasing.

[Moulin Yarns]

You get the impression they are up to something. All this mention of Mrs. Budges lawyers trying to do deals, suggests they are trying to find some way round things in Lt.

Why so desperate for it to be done by next Friday though? It's as if they are saying "next Friday or bust" meaning all involved will (have to) walk away if no deal is done. Months ago Jackson hinted at the end of March being a cut off point.

Pleasing.

Which is where I thing Banderson got his meeting from. He set a reminder on his phone and he assumes there must be a meeting on Friday to allow DHL to deliver the shares on Monday.

[Peevemor]

You get the impression they are up to something. All this mention of Mrs. Budges lawyers trying to do deals, suggests they are trying to find some way round things in Lt.

Why so desperate for it to be done by next Friday though? It's as if they are saying "next Friday or bust" meaning all involved will (have to) walk away if no deal is done. Months ago Jackson hinted at the end of March being a cut off point.

Pleasing.

It certainly looks like they need to start selling 2014/15 STs soon or else they simply won't make it until the end of the season.

[GreenLake]

It certainly looks like they need to start selling 2014/15 STs soon or else they simply won't make it until the end of the season.

Maybe they can get their sponsors to advance them money from next seasons lowland league shirt deal.

[Kato]

You get the impression they are up to something. All this mention of Mrs. Budges lawyers trying to do deals, suggests they are trying to find some way round things in Lt.

Why so desperate for it to be done by next Friday though? It's as if they are saying "next Friday or bust" meaning all involved will (have to) walk away if no deal is done. Months ago Jackson hinted at the end of March being a cut off point.

Pleasing.

So it boils down to either yet another staggering piece of incompetence by Barry or a barely believable attempt at illegality by Budge and her lawyers.

I know my money is on the more mundane choice.

[Keith_M]

It certainly looks like they need to start selling 2014/15 STs soon or else they simply won't make it until the end of the season.


CWG will be along shortly but, while we're waiting...

They can't. BDO have already admitted as much.


(or is this another 'whoosh' moment that I've fallen for....again :wink: )

[Kaiser1962]

I have amused myself over recent years by writing down (for my own amusement) some of the "facts" and figures associated with the financial mess that is HoM. One of the things that has been consistent over the years has been the reasonably lucid and rational comments on the situation on this forum. There are so many serious questions that are raised when a financial crime is committed; especially when it is compounded by idiotic comments from the media, the fans and the club. Simply considering the current situation where, as far as I can see, there are three major stumbling blocks to the smooth purchase and survival of HoM, namely, the "frozen" shares, the ownership (and value) of the land / ground and the longer term financial viability of the club. Even with a meeting next week where the outcome somehow miraculously provides a clear road for the exit from administation there is still the issue of the future. If there are any of the deluded ones looking in, there are some other issues that you might want clarification on...Exactly how many shares are there in HoM? (I make it 283 million (as ludicrous as it sounds) but I am happy for anyone to check the figures for themselves). If Ms Budge can purchase a majority for £50K then that should give you an idea of how much they have come down in value. Is that a good investment, and if so, why? Is due diligence an issue in terms of the purchase of the club and, if so, what happens in the event of the discovery of criminal activity? For instance, what happened to the £1.8 million that the fans paid for shares that, as far as I am aware, were never issued? Will Ms Budge provide the shares? Did the shares ever exist? If not, isn't that a crime and has it been, or will it be, reported? What is the market value of the land and why would any creditor or administator be prepared to sell it at anything less than maket value and can Ms Budge or FoH afford to pay the market price as well as maintain the PBS? Just a few of the many points that come to mind...but good luck next week with that meeting.

Good post.

I also suspect that the money used to provide Hearts with debt forgiveness and debt for equity deals will be of more interest to the Lithuanian investigators than the book debt owed by the club to both UKIO or UBIG. I would be surprised if anything is let go until the financial relationships between the group companies has been examined and understood.

[Dashing Bob S]

Here's my favourite ever post on Kickback - perversely relating to Hibs fans.



"The Kubler-Ross model suggests that there are 5 stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

It would appear that they are moving on to stage 2, as so far we've had lots of denial.

Denial - we had a better card display, we would have won if the ref hadn't cheated, hearts were financially doping etc

And now on to anger, so eloquently scribed for us above by another of the sirgay minions.

The next 3 stages are Bargaining, Depression and acceptance.

It will be fun to watch them on the journey. "


It certainly is fun watching them on this journey!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

CWG will be along shortly but, while we're waiting...

They can't. BDO have already admitted as much.


(or is this another 'whoosh' moment that I've fallen for....again :wink: )

Nope. CWG will confirm your musings as highly factual, if only he would tell us where BDO will get their fee from. :-)

[Keith_M]

Nope. CWG will confirm your musings as highly factual, if only he would tell us where BDO will get their fee from. :-)


Yep, that is indeed the great mystery in all of this


:wink:

[stevejordan]

Here's my favourite ever post on Kickback - perversely relating to Hibs fans.



"The Kubler-Ross model suggests that there are 5 stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

It would appear that they are moving on to stage 2, as so far we've had lots of denial.

Denial - we had a better card display, we would have won if the ref hadn't cheated, hearts were financially doping etc

And now on to anger, so eloquently scribed for us above by another of the sirgay minions.

The next 3 stages are Bargaining, Depression and acceptance.

It will be fun to watch them on the journey. "


It certainly is fun watching them on this journey!

But wait simmer the moment right now with " The Meeting Scheduled for Friday " they have moved to Euphoria Stage which includes Hope and Excitement they will drop to stage 3 when the meeting we all know wont happen except them does not happen.

Stage 4 kicks in after we horse them in the Derby.

Stage 5 on Monday Morning Relegated horsed by us and no meeting no hope depression and finally acceptance.

and yes its gonna be fun to watch.

[Kaiser1962]

Here's my favourite ever post on Kickback - perversely relating to Hibs fans.



"The Kubler-Ross model suggests that there are 5 stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

It would appear that they are moving on to stage 2, as so far we've had lots of denial.

Denial - we had a better card display, we would have won if the ref hadn't cheated, hearts were financially doping etc

And now on to anger, so eloquently scribed for us above by another of the sirgay minions.

The next 3 stages are Bargaining, Depression and acceptance.

It will be fun to watch them on the journey. "


It certainly is fun watching them on this journey!

They are as up to date with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross as they are with everything else. It is now a seven stage model and the first stage is shock or disbelief followed by denial. There is little point explaining the rest to them as they are stuck between these two.

[Phil D. Rolls]

They are as up to date with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross as they are with everything else. It is now a seven stage model and the first stage is shock or disbelief followed by denial. There is little point explaining the rest to them as they are stuck between these two.

I think all of this stuff pointing out that we also were in debt and had financial problems sees them heading towards experimentation. In that they have accepted they are in a mess, and are now looking at what happens after things go wrong.

Regrettably they have reached this stage too late to make any real difference. A recurring theme on here, over the years, ha been, living beyond your means ends in tears. In fact it is a schism that continues in our support.

If they could only have realised earlier that the same rules apply to them as apply to us they may have been able to avoid this. Instead they truly believed all the big team nonsense and thought we were unique in our folly.

[Springbank]

Always amuses me that hearts fans (and plenty Hibs fans) forget that anyone can win a cup final 5-1 (our last cup win springs to mind)

Also most teams can lose these games 5-1 (check 1996 for reference, rangers vs hearts)

We just don't tend to go overboard about it
And we don't find ourselves going out of business

Is that denial or is that just plain old truth?
Perhaps our eh11 shrinks can help me out here??

[Dashing Bob S]

I think all of this stuff pointing out that we also were in debt and had financial problems sees them heading towards experimentation. In that they have accepted they are in a mess, and are now looking at what happens after things go wrong.

Regrettably they have reached this stage too late to make any real difference. A recurring theme on here, over the years, ha been, living beyond your means ends in tears. In fact it is a schism that continues in our support.

If they could only have realised earlier that the same rules apply to them as apply to us they may have been able to avoid this. Instead they truly believed all the big team nonsense and thought we were unique in our folly.

They are a big team, relatively speaking. To other outfits in Div 2/Lowland League.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Always amuses me that hearts fans (and plenty Hibs fans) forget that anyone can win a cup final 5-1 (our last cup win springs to mind)

Also most teams can lose these games 5-1 (check 1996 for reference, rangers vs hearts)

We just don't tend to go overboard about it
And we don't find ourselves going out of business

Is that denial or is that just plain old truth?
Perhaps our eh11 shrinks can help me out here??

It was all worth it. (At least it was when they thought it came free of charge,)

[GreenLake]

They are as up to date with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross as they are with everything else. It is now a seven stage model and the first stage is shock or disbelief followed by denial. There is little point explaining the rest to them as they are stuck between these two.

They do anything they can to avoid 7, even living an 8 day week.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nope. CWG will confirm your musings as highly factual, if only he would tell us where BDO will get their fee from. :-)

----No effin funny..... oh yez are no effin funy........

v v v v v v v v v v v

:na na:

[grunt]

There's been a lot of comments about money laundering on this thread and I've been trying to get my around how this has worked in that the Liths have chucked millions at Hearts but quite how this was cleaned up and recycled back to Romanov in any meaningful amounts I'm not sure. I know various members of his family and other random Liths were employed and were no doubt well rewarded either through Hearts' books or directly from Lithuania. However even if the former is true, as a percentage of what was put into Hearts only a small proportion would be cleaned up even by money laundering standards.

We can only speculate as to the source of the money used to prop up Hearts (and we all have our suspicions) but I can't see how Romanov was recycling significant amounts.

The results of the criminal investigations in Lithuania will make interesting reading I think.I think the most suspicious time was when they sold Craig Gordon for £9m and still made a loss. There must have been some unusual items of expenditure going through the accounts that year. And even in the most recent set of accounts, they had a highly suspicious charge payable to Kaunas FC. There must be one or two transactions which might bear investigation.

[tomf]

All excellent points.

I would clarify the bit in bold, however. If the CVA goes through, the land and property are part of the deal. They are owned by HMFC. Therefore UBIG and UKIO transferring the shares in HMFC to FOH/AB effectively transfers the PBS as well.

There is no separate deal for the PBS, if that's what you mean. £2.5m gets the lot.

I am happy to stand corrected. My view was based on my understanding that the ground was basically held as surety against a loan and my belief would be that, if the loan repayments have not been maintained, then the deeds are effectively the property of the lender. That may not be the case but I had thought it would be different from the shares. I presume that the other assets, namely, the playing staff under contract who may have a transfer value are also included in the deal. That would mean that shares once valued at £28.3 million being sold for £50K and a ground, valued at £20.5 million in September 2004 being sold for something like £2 million; plus whatever the relevant members of the current playing squad might be worth also being included does make one wonder if the creditors in Lithuania might want to consider the deal before agreeing to anything. This might already have been agreed and resolved by the CVA but my understanding was that the creditors would vote on its acceptance. That too may be a foregone concusion but I wouldn't be taking anything for granted if it were me. They do have calculators in Lithuania.

[Dashing Bob S]

Those blasted shares arrived yet fawlty?

[CropleyWasGod]

I am happy to stand corrected. My view was based on my understanding that the ground was basically held as surety against a loan and my belief would be that, if the loan repayments have not been maintained, then the deeds are effectively the property of the lender. That may not be the case but I had thought it would be different from the shares. I presume that the other assets, namely, the playing staff under contract who may have a transfer value are also included in the deal. That would mean that shares once valued at £28.3 million being sold for £50K and a ground, valued at £20.5 million in September 2004 being sold for something like £2 million; plus whatever the relevant members of the current playing squad might be worth also being included does make one wonder if the creditors in Lithuania might want to consider the deal before agreeing to anything. This might already have been agreed and resolved by the CVA but my understanding was that the creditors would vote on its acceptance. That too may be a foregone concusion but I wouldn't be taking anything for granted if it were me. They do have calculators in Lithuania.

Cheers.

The CVA has still to be formally approved by the UKIO creditors (in effect, the Insurance guys,whose name I keep forgetting, as they have the voting power.) Whether they will vote for it is still unknown. It may well be nodded through and given the famous rubber stamp. It may be questioned.

[Joe6-2]

Those blasted shares arrived yet fawlty?

They certainly are fawlty!

[jacomo]

I think the most suspicious time was when they sold Craig Gordon for £9m and still made a loss. There must have been some unusual items of expenditure going through the accounts that year. And even in the most recent set of accounts, they had a highly suspicious charge payable to Kaunas FC. There must be one or two transactions which might bear investigation.

How about the fact that wages seemed to be paid each month via a bank transfer from Lithuania (as became clear when they started having problems). And as mentioned above, large chunks of cash were leaving Edinburgh in return for Lithuania. If you were laundering money, this seems like a way to set it up: cash from as yet unknown sources in, cash from legitimate trading out.

We shall see what the investigators find out.

[Kato]

How about the fact that wages seemed to be paid each month via a bank transfer from Lithuania (as became clear when they started having problems). And as mentioned above, large chunks of cash were leaving Edinburgh in return for Lithuania. If you were laundering money, this seems like a way to set it up: cash from as yet unknown sources in, cash from legitimate trading out.

Way back when Vlad first arrived a discussion took place on here as to how money could be laundered through Hearts. The above was just one scenario mentioned.

[leggeto]

I think the most suspicious time was when they sold Craig Gordon for £9m and still made a loss. There must have been some unusual items of expenditure going through the accounts that year. And even in the most recent set of accounts, they had a highly suspicious charge payable to Kaunas FC. There must be one or two transactions which might bear investigation.

that got spent on fuel for nades Lamborghini

[Coco Bryce]

Couple of my mates attended the Willie Bauld memorial dinner at Tynie last night. One of them said a lot of talk by many attendees was how useless and unprofessional Barry Anderson has been over the last year or so. Even they hate him :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

Couple of my mates attended the Willie Bauld memorial dinner at Tynie last night. One of them said a lot of talk by many attendees was how useless and unprofessional Barry Anderson has been over the last year or so. Even they hate him :greengrin

I don't hate #allisbarry as such. It just annoys me that such a useless prat is employed at a level way above his abilities. Office pencil sharpener would be a better use of his talents

[Kato]

Couple of my mates attended the Willie Bauld memorial dinner at Tynie last night. One of them said a lot of talk by many attendees was how useless and unprofessional Barry Anderson has been over the last year or so. Even they hate him :greengrin


They only noticed over the last year or so?

For the whole of Vlad's tenure he soft soaped them with chat like "corridors of power at Tynecastle", "Mr Romanov's ambition" and "self-sufficient".

Bet they liked that sort of unprofessionalism.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Couple of my mates attended the Willie Bauld memorial dinner at Tynie last night. One of them said a lot of talk by many attendees was how useless and unprofessional Barry Anderson has been over the last year or so. Even they hate him :greengrin

He's tried to be their pal, and now they are turning on him and saying its all his fault. The fact is they haven't needed anyone to point out the shambles - it's been staring them in the face for years, in the shape of a stand built in 1914.

The minute Vlad told them about his plan to replace Archie Leitchs masterpiece, they should have suspected a crock. The fact that they didn't run him out of town, but lamely went along with his lunacy, has been their biggest failing.

[davcar]

It's not Banderson's fault they chose to believe his Vlad / FOH / Budge propaganda, the facts have been here for years in this thread which they chose to ignore! Plenty have looked in and poured scorn over words which have made more sense than those of #allisbarry

.net seekers of true and justice, now the neighbours from West can suffer.

[greenginger]

Way back when Vlad first arrived a discussion took place on here as to how money could be laundered through Hearts. The above was just one scenario mentioned.


If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rung a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.

[Coco Bryce]

If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rungs a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.

I take it the Herbalife didn't work out to well for Stacky so he chose a new sideline :wink:

[GreenLake]

If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rungs a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.

They both share the name Impex - will that do?

[HoboHarry]

If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rungs a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.
If this was proved what would be the likely implications for Hearts as they currently are? Free of Vlad etc etc.....

[Kaiser1962]

If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rung a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.

If its Corpmark Impex LLP and City Impex LLP then they had two matching directors in IRELAND & OVERSEAS ACQUISITIONS LIMITED and MILLTOWN CORPORATE SERVICES LTD who share an address at No.35 New Road, Belize City, Belize.

[greenginger]

If its Corpmark Impex LLP and City Impex LLP then they had two matching directors in IRELAND & OVERSEAS ACQUISITIONS LIMITED and MILLTOWN CORPORATE SERVICES LTD who share an address at No.35 New Road, Belize City, Belize.

The name of the Company that wrote off Hearts debts was Impex Net according to the Accounts prepared by Johnston Carmichael.

I don't know if the auditors were required to establish if that was the correct name of the company providing the funding or if the money was " clean ".

[Nando™]

If you are looking for a link between Hearts and money laundering here is an article that might be of interest.

http://grahamstack.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/baltic-banks-at-the-hearts-of-ukraine-graft/

On first reading it might just appear that the connection is just some Vlad stooge who likes Maroon but go down to para 9.

This company Corpmark Impex LLP ( Virgin Islands registered and now dissolved ) rung a bell.

In Hearts 2010 Accounts £ 14.2 million of the Clubs debts were assigned to Impex Net and £ 5.9 million was written off.

If someone could link the two Impex companies, it could be shown that Hearts were being funded by the proceeds of crime.

Stopped reading after they tried to tell me that Hearts are a venerable club.

[Jack]

If its Corpmark Impex LLP and City Impex LLP then they had two matching directors in IRELAND & OVERSEAS ACQUISITIONS LIMITED and MILLTOWN CORPORATE SERVICES LTD who share an address at No.35 New Road, Belize City, Belize.

Next door to Greggs.

[CropleyWasGod]

If this was proved what would be the likely implications for Hearts as they currently are? Free of Vlad etc etc.....

There would be no great implications for Hearts as a club/company, given that they are about to (at best) come under new ownership. There would be a smell, of course, but we're used to that.

If any money-laundering, or proceeds of crime, could be proven, the implications would be for individuals within the company. Even at that, one would have to prove intent, knowledge, conspiracy etc.

There might also be implications for their advisers.......and I'll deal with GG's query about the auditors in a minute, once I get my head around it :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Right.....the auditors.

As far as getting evidence about the write-off of the debt is concerned, a signed letter from that company on its headed paper should be sufficient as a starting-point. However, given the amount of the write-off, my instinct would be to find out a little more about the company itself. Not necessarily from an audit-evidence point of view, but from the perspective of finding out more about the environment in which Hearts/UBIG/UKIO operated. Remember, of course, that Johnston Carmichael found it difficult to get any information out of UBIG and their auditors, so any additional information would be very useful.

On to money-laundering.

The writing off of a debt does not, of itself, suggest money-laundering. (That term, by the way, has become a bit of a misnomer.... we are really talking about "profiting from the proceeds of crime"... but ML is easier to say.) However, again given the lack of clarity around UBIG etc, it would have been good practice on JC's part to establish "why" the debt was written off. Good practice from an audit point of view, but also to try and satisfy their anti-ML obligations.

Did they do that? We can't know.

Let's assume that they did, and that the reasons appeared to be sound, sensible, commercial etc. In that case, JC have nothing to be concerned about in that particular aspect.

Now, let's assume that they did, and that the reasons are none of the above. If that is the case, the law is quite clear. If an accountant/lawyer etc has "suspicion" (not evidence, or knowledge.... mere suspicion) that someone with whom they have come into contact in their business dealings has profited from the proceeds of crime, then they MUST report that suspicion to the authorities. (at the last count, that was the National Crime Agency, but they keep changing the bloody rules.)

So, if JC suspect that Impex or Hearts have profited from crime, and they report that suspicion, they have satisfied their obligations..... whether or not anything comes from that report. If they don't report it, they (specifically, probably the auditor in charge of the job, and their Money Laundering Reporting Officer) could be liable to 7 years in the jail.

[The Falcon]

On to money-laundering.

The writing off of a debt does not, of itself, suggest money-laundering. (That term, by the way, has become a bit of a misnomer.... we are really talking about "profiting from the proceeds of crime"... but ML is easier to say.) However, again given the lack of clarity around UBIG etc, it would have been good practice on JC's part to establish "why" the debt was written off. Good practice from an audit point of view, but also to try and satisfy their anti-ML obligations.

Did they do that? We can't know.



Surely the movement of funds inter company, or through companies in off shore tax havens, would be a matter of interest to the Lithuanian investigators.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely the movement of funds inter company, or through companies in off shore tax havens, would be a matter of interest to the Lithuanian investigators.

Indeed it would. And, if that uncovered suspicion about inter-company transactions that involved officers of HMFC, the UK authorities would be advised accordingly.

My post was from the perspective of HMFC's auditors.... since some on here (no names :greengrin) want to know what their "contribution" was.

[ancient hibee]

Money laundering eh-perhaps solicit some help from the Southside.

[GreenLake]

Right.....the auditors.

As far as getting evidence about the write-off of the debt is concerned, a signed letter from that company on its headed paper should be sufficient as a starting-point. However, given the amount of the write-off, my instinct would be to find out a little more about the company itself. Not necessarily from an audit-evidence point of view, but from the perspective of finding out more about the environment in which Hearts/UBIG/UKIO operated. Remember, of course, that Johnston Carmichael found it difficult to get any information out of UBIG and their auditors, so any additional information would be very useful.

On to money-laundering.

The writing off of a debt does not, of itself, suggest money-laundering. (That term, by the way, has become a bit of a misnomer.... we are really talking about "profiting from the proceeds of crime"... but ML is easier to say.) However, again given the lack of clarity around UBIG etc, it would have been good practice on JC's part to establish "why" the debt was written off. Good practice from an audit point of view, but also to try and satisfy their anti-ML obligations.

Did they do that? We can't know.

Let's assume that they did, and that the reasons appeared to be sound, sensible, commercial etc. In that case, JC have nothing to be concerned about in that particular aspect.

Now, let's assume that they did, and that the reasons are none of the above. If that is the case, the law is quite clear. If an accountant/lawyer etc has "suspicion" (not evidence, or knowledge.... mere suspicion) that someone with whom they have come into contact in their business dealings has profited from the proceeds of crime, then they MUST report that suspicion to the authorities. (at the last count, that was the National Crime Agency, but they keep changing the bloody rules.)

So, if JC suspect that Impex or Hearts have profited from crime, and they report that suspicion, they have satisfied their obligations..... whether or not anything comes from that report. If they don't report it, they (specifically, probably the auditor in charge of the job, and their Money Laundering Reporting Officer) could be liable to 7 years in the jail.

We need a leak of the calls recorded from Vlad's mobile by the intelligence services. Is Edward Snowden a Hibby? :greengrin

[Springbank]

Sounds like the kind of operation that would offer to pay Craig Thomson to give a penalty & red card in the cup final in 2012

[Eyrie]

Sounds like the kind of operation that would offer to pay Craig Thomson to give a penalty & red card in the cup final in 2012

Thomson doesn't need bribed to give a decision against us. Indeed he'd reject such an offer out of hand just to prove that he can be an incompetent cheat without being given an incentive.

[tomf]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares. After the second swap the Hearts website indicated that this would mean that the number of ordinary shares would total something in the order of 142 million, which doesn't make arithmetical sense. Their website also indicated that, at that time, UBIG owned slightly less than 47 million ordinary shares or 95% of the company. That doesn't make arithmetical sense either of course. However, at the point, just before it all went belly-up, they asked the fans to provide around £1.8 million for a 10% share of the club, which, unsurprisingly, doesn’t make any arithmetical sense either.

None of these transactions were queried at the time nor have they been since by our dynamic, investigative Scottish media i.e. a journalist with a calculator and opposable thumbs. These figures and statements alone would surely warrant investigation because the shareholders and creditors of both UKIO BANKAS and UBIG might just feel it is reasonable to know exactly how many shares were purchased on their behalf and what percentage they constitute in terms of the overall value of Hearts. It does, after all, reflect on their value. If the club, its shares and assets are now worth £2.5 million, I reckon those fans who provided the £1.8 million should actually own over 70% of Hearts, which I believe is around the amount of shares that are now being purchased for £50K to the apparent delight of the Hearts fans who paid £1.8 million for them last year...or am I just confusing things?
How well all of this reflects on Scottish journalism is fairly obvious...pathetically.

[EdinMike]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares....
Aye but.... Shhh... :wink:

[GreenLake]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares. After the second swap the Hearts website indicated that this would mean that the number of ordinary shares would total something in the order of 142 million, which doesn't make arithmetical sense. Their website also indicated that, at that time, UBIG owned slightly less than 47 million ordinary shares or 95% of the company. That doesn't make arithmetical sense either of course. However, at the point, just before it all went belly-up, they asked the fans to provide around £1.8 million for a 10% share of the club, which, unsurprisingly, doesn’t make any arithmetical sense either.

None of these transactions were queried at the time nor have they been since by our dynamic, investigative Scottish media i.e. a journalist with a calculator and opposable thumbs. These figures and statements alone would surely warrant investigation because the shareholders and creditors of both UKIO BANKAS and UBIG might just feel it is reasonable to know exactly how many shares were purchased on their behalf and what percentage they constitute in terms of the overall value of Hearts. It does, after all, reflect on their value. If the club, its shares and assets are now worth £2.5 million, I reckon those fans who provided the £1.8 million should actually own over 70% of Hearts, which I believe is around the amount of shares that are now being purchased for £50K to the apparent delight of the Hearts fans who paid £1.8 million for them last year...or am I just confusing things?
How well all of this reflects on Scottish journalism is fairly obvious...pathetically.




Are you suggesting the thick maroon dipsticks already own their club but are on levels of stupidity previously unreached in that they are paying for the club yet again in long term installments while surrendering ownership to an extremely wealthy woman from Drylaw?

[lapsedhibee]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares. After the second swap the Hearts website indicated that this would mean that the number of ordinary shares would total something in the order of 142 million, which doesn't make arithmetical sense. Their website also indicated that, at that time, UBIG owned slightly less than 47 million ordinary shares or 95% of the company. That doesn't make arithmetical sense either of course. However, at the point, just before it all went belly-up, they asked the fans to provide around £1.8 million for a 10% share of the club, which, unsurprisingly, doesn’t make any arithmetical sense either.

Hearts are too big to be bound the laws of traditional mathematics. They have their own yamathematics to cope with the apparent inconsistencies you identify.

[Stonewall]

Right.....the auditors.

As far as getting evidence about the write-off of the debt is concerned, a signed letter from that company on its headed paper should be sufficient as a starting-point. However, given the amount of the write-off, my instinct would be to find out a little more about the company itself. Not necessarily from an audit-evidence point of view, but from the perspective of finding out more about the environment in which Hearts/UBIG/UKIO operated. Remember, of course, that Johnston Carmichael found it difficult to get any information out of UBIG and their auditors, so any additional information would be very useful.

On to money-laundering.

The writing off of a debt does not, of itself, suggest money-laundering. (That term, by the way, has become a bit of a misnomer.... we are really talking about "profiting from the proceeds of crime"... but ML is easier to say.) However, again given the lack of clarity around UBIG etc, it would have been good practice on JC's part to establish "why" the debt was written off. Good practice from an audit point of view, but also to try and satisfy their anti-ML obligations.

Did they do that? We can't know.

Let's assume that they did, and that the reasons appeared to be sound, sensible, commercial etc. In that case, JC have nothing to be concerned about in that particular aspect.

Now, let's assume that they did, and that the reasons are none of the above. If that is the case, the law is quite clear. If an accountant/lawyer etc has "suspicion" (not evidence, or knowledge.... mere suspicion) that someone with whom they have come into contact in their business dealings has profited from the proceeds of crime, then they MUST report that suspicion to the authorities. (at the last count, that was the National Crime Agency, but they keep changing the bloody rules.)

So, if JC suspect that Impex or Hearts have profited from crime, and they report that suspicion, they have satisfied their obligations..... whether or not anything comes from that report. If they don't report it, they (specifically, probably the auditor in charge of the job, and their Money Laundering Reporting Officer) could be liable to 7 years in the jail.

The accounts were also not signed off by the auditors for a number of years iirc which would imply that they must have been unhappy with the answers they were getting from the Liths.

[Hibrandenburg]

He's tried to be their pal, and now they are turning on him and saying its all his fault. The fact is they haven't needed anyone to point out the shambles - it's been staring them in the face for years, in the shape of a stand built in 1914.

The minute Vlad told them about his plan to replace Archie Leitchs masterpiece, they should have suspected a crock. The fact that they didn't run him out of town, but lamely went along with his lunacy, has been their biggest failing.

This!

The fact that despite all the evidence that Vlad was a shyster they chose to back him or were at least compliant in their silence makes them complicit in the death of their club. They've done this to themselves and we should never let them forget it.

[brog]

OK, a couple of fairly random but associated thoughts on recent posts.
1. Washing the Lithuanian money. IIRC was there not a period where most of Yams marquee signings were officially Kaunas players? I know someone has commented on wages being transferred from Lithuania but I'm sure it would have been possible for loan fees also to have been charged. Mind you, how this would have escaped the eagle eyes of Johnson Carmichael is a mystery! I think GG's probably on the money however re large sums being moved through offshore entities.
2. Building on the above it's yet another wonderful example of Yam ignorance. There are many posters both on Brokeback & EEN who somehow claim we are cheating by playing loan players. This not only ignores the Kaunas situation but forgets recent beauties such as Danny ( nae suspension ) Wilson, Ngoo, who helped them to the LC final & currently McCallum, who TBF, they're desperately trying to forget!
Thank heavens for Yams, it really helps us avoid thinking about our own situation!

[CropleyWasGod]

The accounts were also not signed off by the auditors for a number of years iirc which would imply that they must have been unhappy with the answers they were getting from the Liths.

They were signed off, with clean audit reports

Edit... Apologies, I misread your post. See Cav's much more expansive, and correct, post below :)

[Stonewall]

They were signed off, with clean audit reports

Thanks CWG - memory playing tricks again, another senior moment.

[Caversham Green]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares. After the second swap the Hearts website indicated that this would mean that the number of ordinary shares would total something in the order of 142 million, which doesn't make arithmetical sense. Their website also indicated that, at that time, UBIG owned slightly less than 47 million ordinary shares or 95% of the company. That doesn't make arithmetical sense either of course. However, at the point, just before it all went belly-up, they asked the fans to provide around £1.8 million for a 10% share of the club, which, unsurprisingly, doesn’t make any arithmetical sense either.

None of these transactions were queried at the time nor have they been since by our dynamic, investigative Scottish media i.e. a journalist with a calculator and opposable thumbs. These figures and statements alone would surely warrant investigation because the shareholders and creditors of both UKIO BANKAS and UBIG might just feel it is reasonable to know exactly how many shares were purchased on their behalf and what percentage they constitute in terms of the overall value of Hearts. It does, after all, reflect on their value. If the club, its shares and assets are now worth £2.5 million, I reckon those fans who provided the £1.8 million should actually own over 70% of Hearts, which I believe is around the amount of shares that are now being purchased for £50K to the apparent delight of the Hearts fans who paid £1.8 million for them last year...or am I just confusing things?
How well all of this reflects on Scottish journalism is fairly obvious...pathetically.




There's a confusion between nominal value, issue price and share premiums here. The 2008 share issue consisted of £34,285,714 shares with a nominal value of 10p - that increased the share capital by £3.4m (rounded off). They were issued at a price of 35p - a premium of 25p - which increased the share premium by £8.5m. The issue reduced debt £12m - 34m x 35p. The other conversion followed a similar pattern.

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding.

[The Falcon]

They were signed off, with clean audit reports

Was there not a wee qualification that JC had limited information regarding UBIG and that the Yams were entirely dependant on UBIG's continued support? I think this appeared for a few years.

[Phil D. Rolls]

In 2008 Hearts converted £12million of debt into equity i.e. shares, which were valued at 10p per share. In 2010 they converted a further £10 million of debt for equity on the same basis, all of which gives a total or 220 million shares. After the second swap the Hearts website indicated that this would mean that the number of ordinary shares would total something in the order of 142 million, which doesn't make arithmetical sense. Their website also indicated that, at that time, UBIG owned slightly less than 47 million ordinary shares or 95% of the company. That doesn't make arithmetical sense either of course. However, at the point, just before it all went belly-up, they asked the fans to provide around £1.8 million for a 10% share of the club, which, unsurprisingly, doesn’t make any arithmetical sense either.

None of these transactions were queried at the time nor have they been since by our dynamic, investigative Scottish media i.e. a journalist with a calculator and opposable thumbs. These figures and statements alone would surely warrant investigation because the shareholders and creditors of both UKIO BANKAS and UBIG might just feel it is reasonable to know exactly how many shares were purchased on their behalf and what percentage they constitute in terms of the overall value of Hearts. It does, after all, reflect on their value. If the club, its shares and assets are now worth £2.5 million, I reckon those fans who provided the £1.8 million should actually own over 70% of Hearts, which I believe is around the amount of shares that are now being purchased for £50K to the apparent delight of the Hearts fans who paid £1.8 million for them last year...or am I just confusing things?
How well all of this reflects on Scottish journalism is fairly obvious...pathetically.



:top marks

So it all makes sense now. If you can borrow money from yourself, you can then use that money to buy your football club, from yourself. Presumably you then repay the loan from the money you received from yourself in payment for the club you sold to yourself. Then everybody is happy, especially yourself.

[Kaiser1962]

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding.

These transactions, along with the debt forgiveness and inter co invoices, are going to be the ones that will interest and be scrutinised by the Lith Fraud Squad. I would guess that these investigations will have to be completed before any assets are let go. Thoughts?

[Caversham Green]

They were signed off, with clean audit reports

They were signed off, but apart from the 2012 ones they weren't 'clean'. They all carried a qualification to the effect that the auditors could not establish whether UBIG were capable of providing the support they claimed to be offering, therefore they (the auditors) were unsure whether the accounts gave a true and fair view.

The unqualified report given for the 2012 accounts, signed and published only a few months before HoMFC entered administration looks to me like a massive misjudgement at the very best.

[Caversham Green]

These transactions, along with the debt forgiveness and inter co invoices, are going to be the ones that will interest and be scrutinised by the Lith Fraud Squad. I would guess that these investigations will have to be completed before any assets are let go. Thoughts?

Indeed. In total these transactions 'cost' UBIG something in the region of £67m - since UBIG will not be paying their creditors a sum in excess of that amount HoMFC are ultimately responsible for those creditors' losses. In effect they stole that money from them - that's cheating, taking players on loan and paying off your debts as they fall due is standard business practice.

[CropleyWasGod]

They were signed off, but apart from the 2012 ones they weren't 'clean'. They all carried a qualification to the effect that the auditors could not establish whether UBIG were capable of providing the support they claimed to be offering, therefore they (the auditors) were unsure whether the accounts gave a true and fair view.

The unqualified report given for the 2012 accounts, signed and published only a few months before HoMFC entered administration looks to me like a massive misjudgement at the very best.

Sorry. It was the 2012 accounts I was talking about.

Damn these Monday mornings....

[Caversham Green]

Sorry. It was the 2012 accounts I was talking about

Ah, right. I think Stonewall was talking about accounts for a number of years though.

[Jack]

There's a confusion between nominal value, issue price and share premiums here. The 2008 share issue consisted of £34,285,714 shares with a nominal value of 10p - that increased the share capital by £3.4m (rounded off). They were issued at a price of 35p - a premium of 25p - which increased the share premium by £8.5m. The issue reduced debt £12m - 34m x 35p. The other conversion followed a similar pattern.

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding.

I seem to recall talk at some time of increasing the book value of UKIO/UBIG assets as the LT authorities required exposure to be within a certain percentage - they didn't have enough assets on the books for the debt they carried or some such thing. This was also the times Vlad was allegedly pumping his own money into various organisations, which the yams took to illustrate just how minted he was.

[greenginger]

There's a confusion between nominal value, issue price and share premiums here. The 2008 share issue consisted of £34,285,714 shares with a nominal value of 10p - that increased the share capital by £3.4m (rounded off). They were issued at a price of 35p - a premium of 25p - which increased the share premium by £8.5m. The issue reduced debt £12m - 34m x 35p. The other conversion followed a similar pattern.

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding.


That's exactly what they were up to. Vlad valued the Yams at £ 50 million, not because he had any hope of getting a fraction of that amount, but to put on his balance sheet to justify the vast sums of Ukio Bankas cash " apparently " spent on them.

That's why he went bananas when FoH. went public with their £ 200 K offer for the whole shooting match. :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

OK, a couple of fairly random but associated thoughts on recent posts.
1. Washing the Lithuanian money. IIRC was there not a period where most of Yams marquee signings were officially Kaunas players? I know someone has commented on wages being transferred from Lithuania but I'm sure it would have been possible for loan fees also to have been charged. Mind you, how this would have escaped the eagle eyes of Johnson Carmichael is a mystery! I think GG's probably on the money however re large sums being moved through offshore entities.
2. Building on the above it's yet another wonderful example of Yam ignorance. There are many posters both on Brokeback & EEN who somehow claim we are cheating by playing loan players. This not only ignores the Kaunas situation but forgets recent beauties such as Danny ( nae suspension ) Wilson, Ngoo, who helped them to the LC final & currently McCallum, who TBF, they're desperately trying to forget!
Thank heavens for Yams, it really helps us avoid thinking about our own situation!Point 1 I would suggest the fees have been "charged" against profits and added to the Loan accounts of UBIG, UKIO or whomever and no "cash" will have changed hands.


They were signed off, with clean audit reports There was a qualification n 2012 around support rom Lithuania.


There's a confusion between nominal value, issue price and share premiums here. The 2008 share issue consisted of £34,285,714 shares with a nominal value of 10p - that increased the share capital by £3.4m (rounded off). They were issued at a price of 35p - a premium of 25p - which increased the share premium by £8.5m. The issue reduced debt £12m - 34m x 35p. The other conversion followed a similar pattern.

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding. Spot on.


Was there not a wee qualification that JC had limited information regarding UBIG and that the Yams were entirely dependant on UBIG's continued support? I think this appeared for a few years. 2012


These transactions, along with the debt forgiveness and inter co invoices, are going to be the ones that will interest and be scrutinised by the Lith Fraud Squad. I would guess that these investigations will have to be completed before any assets are let go. Thoughts? I would think this is a racing certainty.


They were signed off, but apart from the 2012 ones they weren't 'clean'. They all carried a qualification to the effect that the auditors could not establish whether UBIG were capable of providing the support they claimed to be offering, therefore they (the auditors) were unsure whether the accounts gave a true and fair view.

The unqualified report given for the 2012 accounts, signed and published only a few months before HoMFC entered administration looks to me like a massive misjudgement at the very best. That should have been the clue and, in my opinion, a massive misjudgement by the auditors.

Have a look at the BDO creditors list a see what the Aduitors were due !

[CropleyWasGod]

There was a qualification n 2012 around support rom Lithuania.

!

You're having the same Monday morning as me :greengrin

Cav's right. The 2012 accounts were unqualified. The earlier ones had the note about continuing support from Lithuania.

[Caversham Green]

I seem to recall talk at some time of increasing the book value of UKIO/UBIG assets as the LT authorities required exposure to be within a certain percentage - they didn't have enough assets on the books for the debt they carried or some such thing. This was also the times Vlad was allegedly pumping his own money into various organisations, which the yams took to illustrate just how minted he was.

The share issue took the number of shares in issue to just under 47m - at the issue price of 35p that confers a fictional value of about £16.5m on the club before 'goodwill'. Add the £34m debt that was left and you get to Mr Romanov's valuation and that was probably the asset that UBIG were showing in their accounts. One look at HoMFC (IA)'s accounts would show that they were in fact worth furcall.

[greenginger]

Yeah, Johnston Carmichael due £ 100, they made sure they got their £140,000 or whatever fee before signing.

Their solicitors, HBJ Gately Waring , got stung for £ 44,313.00 which was pleasing, as I'm sure they would have been behind many of the legal " tricks " employed by the Yams over the Vlad years.

[Greenworld]

Just back from a weekend away lots of catching up tp do

any meeting confirmation yet ??

[Ronniekirk]

Just back from a weekend away lots of catching up tp do

any meeting confirmation yet ??
Your missing the point .They aren't going to announce it as they want to try and surprise us before the Derby to give them some good news and try and flog their allocation in case we start buying up the tickets .

[Greenworld]

Your missing the point .They aren't going to announce it as they want to try and surprise us before the Derby to give them some good news and try and flog their allocation in case we start buying up the tickets .
Excellent love surprises:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

:top marks

So it all makes sense now. If you can borrow money from yourself, you can then use that money to buy your football club, from yourself. Presumably you then repay the loan from the money you received from yourself in payment for the club you sold to yourself. Then everybody is happy, especially yourself.

:agree: After a quick run through tomfs' numbers it does beg the question how many times are these imbeciles going to have to buy their own club before they actually own it?! If it was a business other than the yam football distortion you might say that if they come out of admin and they all got the shares that they paid for when they were chipping in for vlads goodbye gift they do indeed own a chunk without having to do anything.

They will not want to challenge budgies journey towards her total ownership (sorry fan ownership:faf:) model though!

[Weststandwanab]

You're having the same Monday morning as me :greengrin

Cav's right. The 2012 accounts were unqualified. The earlier ones had the note about continuing support from Lithuania. Apologies if I got the year wrong all I remember was laughing at the qualification, years just slip into years in this regard.


Yeah, Johnston Carmichael due £ 100, they made sure they got their £140,000 or whatever fee before signing.

Their solicitors, HBJ Gately Waring , got stung for £ 44,313.00 which was pleasing, as I'm sure they would have been behind many of the legal " tricks " employed by the Yams over the Vlad years. I am willing to bet the £100 may have been a late filing penalty that they paid on their behalf.

I would prefer to see nobody bumped but I guess those lawyers are in a position to take the hit as opposed to the paper shop in Gorgie.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/138420-foh-twitter-post-and-update/#entry4102609

FoH statement
The best info they have is the meeting is Friday.
:-)

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/138420-foh-twitter-post-and-update/#entry4102609

FoH statement
The best info they have is the meeting is Friday.
:-)

The best info?

They have been advised, by Twatter, that "there are reports" that the UBIG administrators have no knowledge of the meeting. One might have thought that, given these "reports", someone (a journalist, perhaps??) might have tried speaking to the UBIG administrator to clarify the apparent confusion.

[GreenLake]

Yeah, Johnston Carmichael due £ 100, they made sure they got their £140,000 or whatever fee before signing.

Their solicitors, HBJ Gately Waring , got stung for £ 44,313.00 which was pleasing, as I'm sure they would have been behind many of the legal " tricks " employed by the Yams over the Vlad years.

Have they changed their name yet like Arthur Andersen did after Enron?

[Phil D. Rolls]

The best info?

They have been advised, by Twatter, that "there are reports" that the UBIG administrators have no knowledge of the meeting. One might have thought that, given these "reports", someone (a journalist, perhaps??) might have tried speaking to the UBIG administrator to clarify the apparent confusion.

Silly me.

So, it wasn't the Popular Front of Judea after all? It was the Judean Popular Front.....splitters!!


FoH/HoH/FoHoH/ etc. :The best information at present is that it will take place this Friday (28 March). We know from previous experience that meetings can be delayed at short notice but we will all be keeping our fingers crossed that it takes place as scheduled.

A. Yamfud: Very reassuring reply, thank you Ian.


Don't forget to doff your forelock, Quisling, and remember its Mr. Murray in future. Now on your way, but not before you leave the deeds to your house.

[Dashing Bob S]

The best info?

They have been advised, by Twatter, that "there are reports" that the UBIG administrators have no knowledge of the meeting. One might have thought that, given these "reports", someone (a journalist, perhaps??) might have tried speaking to the UBIG administrator to clarify the apparent confusion.

I don't know if it's because football fandom breeds a certain myopia, or there are just some incredibly dim souls over on Kickback, but it's a little scary how easily they can be led down by the garden path by inconsequential nonsense.

Still, not long till Friday's meeting, (which, as we all know can be cancelled at short notice) where we shall see if the UBIG administrator is lying to two separate individuals about this, or whether somebody closer to the PBS is cruelly playing 'tease the roaster.'

I know which one my money is on.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't know if it's because football fandom breeds a certain myopia, or there are just some incredibly dim souls over on Kickback, but it's a little scary how easily they can be led down by the garden path by inconsequential nonsense.

Still, not long till Friday's meeting, (which, as we all know can be cancelled at short notice) where we shall see if the UBIG administrator is lying to two separate individuals about this, or whether somebody closer to the PBS is cruelly playing 'tease the roaster.'

I know which one my money is on.

It's bizarre.

The doubts about the meeting have been put out there, in various forms. All it takes is one email or phone call, and.... bang... they have the truth.

[GordonHFC]

You can bet your bottom Lita that someone in Jamboland will come out of the woodwork on Friday morning and say that the meeting has been cancelled. They have mentioned in every statement that they have come out with about how these things happen at short notice. It was never going to be in the first place but the neanderthals will believe the lies like they always do.

[Seveno]

Isn't it strange that neither Murray or anyone else from FoH can't just contact the UBIG Administrator to ask if the meeting is happening this Friday.

If a couple of junkie peg-selling Hobos can do it, it can't be all that difficult for a Member of Parliament.

[Heedersnvolleys]

'tease the roaster.

Brilliant, I love that game too:thumbsup:

[Sergey]

It's bizarre.

The doubts about the meeting have been put out there, in various forms. All it takes is one email or phone call, and.... bang... they have the truth.

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)





Pakartotinai Jus informuoju, kad informacijos apie kovo 28 d. UBIG kreditoriø susirinkimà neturiu






That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28."

[Moulin Yarns]

Isn't it strange that neither Murray or anyone else from FoH can't just contact the UBIG Administrator to ask if the meeting is happening this Friday.

If a couple of junkie peg-selling Hobos can do it, it can't be all that difficult for a Member of Parliament.

You have to remember that said Member of Parliament would require his manservant to actually do the work, which is a but difficult at the moment as he is waist deep in the moat feeding ducks with a silver teaspoon

[JimBHibees]

It's bizarre.

The doubts about the meeting have been put out there, in various forms. All it takes is one email or phone call, and.... bang... they have the truth.

Do you not think the announcement of the meeting was possibly a very desperate attempt at shifting a few more derby tickets.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you not think the announcement of the meeting was possibly a very desperate attempt at shifting a few more derby tickets.

It wasn't an announcement from Hearts, though. It was a line in a report from Bazza. Since it appeared, it sounds as if no-one inside Hearts knew about it either.

[CropleyWasGod]

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)



That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28."

Hmm... does that mean it might be set for another day? Bazza has previous for getting his numbers mixed up. :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Where is Bryan Jackson whilst all this build up to Friday's crucial meeting? He is the goto man in terms of information for the Scottish (football) media yet not a cheep although there is a sighting of him boarding a plane at the weekend.:confused:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Still, not long till Friday's meeting, (which, as we all know can be cancelled at short notice) where we shall see if the UBIG administrator is lying to two separate individuals about this, or whether somebody closer to the PBS is cruelly playing 'tease the roaster.'

Has this been confirmed yet? :greengrin

[Onion]

Isn't it strange that neither Murray or anyone else from FoH can't just contact the UBIG Administrator to ask if the meeting is happening this Friday.

If a couple of junkie peg-selling Hobos can do it, it can't be all that difficult for a Member of Parliament.

IMHO the date was put out there by mistake and they haven't had the guts to own up. Now, with all the Yams salivating, it's doubly difficult to now say it aint happening. All that would do is raise lots of tough questions and fears about progress, timescales just ahead of the Derby :greengrin

Expect the meeting to disappear like a mirage, with not a peep from BDO/FOH or Barr

[CropleyWasGod]

Where is Bryan Jackson whilst all this build up to Friday's crucial meeting? He is the goto man in terms of information for the Scottish (football) media yet not a cheep although there is a sighting of him boarding a plane at the weekend.:confused:

TBH, he's probably getting on with his job or his holiday. The fact that he's not being pestered by intrepid reporters, keen to get the real truth, will suit him fine.

If there's a meeting on Friday, he'll be doing what he can to influence the outcome. If there's not, he won't.

[Greenworld]

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)



That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28."

Ok it ses so simple can you ask irene when the next
meeting is scheduled for?

[Spike Mandela]

Ok it ses so simple can you ask irene when the next
meeting is scheduled for?

News of a meeting will be in next Monday's press after we relegate them on the Sunday I would suspect.:cb

[Mikey]

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)



That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28."

Good work sir. It really isn't difficult if you ask the right people the right questions.

Barry and Mr Murray aren't the right people :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)



That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28."

Sorry to ask you this Sergey. Can you speak Lithuanian. If you can, why use Google translate?

It's just that there is some hope on JKB, based on the fact that someone over there said you can speak Lithuanian.

[Weststandwanab]

Irene (the UBIG insolvency administrator) sent me another reply earlier this morning after I made her aware FoH are also stating there's a meeting. Here's her reply (which doesn't translate well using Google)



That translates as "I have no information about any UBIG creditors' meeting to be held on March 28." Oh Dear !

[Sergey]

Sorry to ask you this Sergey. Can you speak Lithuanian. If you can, why use Google translate?

It's just that there is some hope on JKB, based on the fact that someone over there said you can speak Lithuanian.

I don't know a single word of Lithuanian, FR...but having several contacts in Kaunas who are fluent, it's easy enough to get them to do the necessary translations.

[robinp]

Here is my post from the PM board last week.


She is to UBIG as Bryan Jackson is to Hahahearts.

Her email address and telephone number are listed next to the appointment details on the government website.

See here:
http://www.bankrotodep.lt/Company.ph...Code=135201099
and her email to me here:
http://s12.postimg.org/f2tad3jrh/Screenshot.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/f2tad3jrh/Screenshot.jpg

I emailed her and politely asked if there was a creditors meeting taking place on 28 March 2014 for UBIG. Her email reply translates to "I have no knowledge of such a meeting.". And she bloody should know, it's her case, she's the administrator.


They appear to have removed the email address but there is another listing on the DEPARTMENT OF ENTERPRISE BANKRUPTCY MANAGEMENT Government site here:
http://195.182.67.7/paslaugos/moni-bankrotas/vykdomos-proceduros/visasas-rasas?imone=1&kodas=135201099

This has both her and her firms email addresses listed.

Hardly groundbreaking investigative journalism from me and Sergey. I don't speak or read a word of Lithuanian and I found this in 10 minutes of looking, last week.

Either she is lying or Barry Anderson is lying. We shall see on Friday.

I was going to post this on Friday morning, but since some people think these communications are made up by Sergey, I wanted to put that to bed.

[Kato]

I don't know if it's because football fandom breeds a certain myopia, or there are just some incredibly dim souls over on Kickback, but it's a little scary how easily they can be led down by the garden path by inconsequential nonsense.

Still, not long till Friday's meeting, (which, as we all know can be cancelled at short notice) where we shall see if the UBIG administrator is lying to two separate individuals about this, or whether somebody closer to the PBS is cruelly playing 'tease the roaster.'

I know which one my money is on.

Get a grip man. The first rule when playing "tease the roaster" is don't mention "tease the roaster".

[ehf]

Sorry to ask you this Sergey. Can you speak Lithuanian. If you can, why use Google translate?

It's just that there is some hope on JKB, based on the fact that someone over there said you can speak Lithuanian.

My understanding is that he didn't use Google Translate (because it doesn't work well). He translated it for us himself, so obviously does speak Lithuanian.

[GreenLake]

I don't know a single word of Lithuanian, FR...but having several contacts in Kaunas who are fluent, it's easy enough to get them to do the necessary translations.

I thought the translation you quoted was not google's because you said it didn't translate very well. Why are the sick backers accusing you of using google when you provided another translation? :greengrin

They also claim the administrator speaks perfect English. :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't know a single word of Lithuanian, FR...but having several contacts in Kaunas who are fluent, it's easy enough to get them to do the necessary translations.

Thanks, couldn't be bothered unravelling the story. Presumably when you can't speak to your contacts you use Google translate?

On a side note. There is a worrying level of homophobia on JKB, that some might suggest points towards denial and diversion. Why else use a word like bumhammer?

Hope the girls over there will be a bit more comfortable with themselves soon. Let's face it, they won't be able to use The Famous as a diversionary tactic much longer.

In a similar vein, I would have thought that even the most liberal admin. would draw the line at making fun of Learning Disabilities.

[Phil D. Rolls]

My understanding is that he didn't use Google Translate (because it doesn't work well). He translated it for us himself, so obviously does speak Lithuanian.

You having a laugh, or didn't you read his reply? Questions have to be asked, otherwise we become as gullible and subservient as the Yaks.

Ps there's a wee head scratching exercise across the road. All gone quiet after a flurry if activity in the last hour.

They can't handle the truth!

(Insert Jack Nicholson smiley, with the word "pleasing' flashing on and off.)

[GreenLake]

You having a laugh, or didn't you read his reply? Questions have to be asked, otherwise we become as gullible and subservient as the Yaks.

Ps there's a wee head scratching exercise across the road. All gone quiet after a flurry if activity in the last hour.

They can't handle the truth!

(Insert Jack Nicholson smiley, with the word "pleasing' flashing on and off.)

Here is the google translate for the admins quote from Lithuanian into English.

"Re-informs you that the information on the 28 March. ŪBIG meeting of creditors have"

His translation came from some other source.

[jdships]

Been speaking with an old friend who is in the FofH hierachy and he says there was a get together over the weekend of a " few of us who are at the coal face of all this "
He went on to say that none of them is " holding our breath that everything will be resolved 28/3 "
" I still have that terrible feeling that liquidation is going to be the final throw "

This lad is in his 70's a genuine football supporter who often comes to ER with our crowd because being just that and I accept what he says as being an honest take on things as he sees them .

[lord bunberry]

Been speaking with an old friend who is in the FofH hierachy and he says there was a get together over the weekend of a " few of us who are at the coal face of all this "
He went on to say that none of them is " holding our breath that everything will be resolved 28/3 "
" I still have that terrible feeling that liquidation is going to be the final throw "

This lad is in his 70's a genuine football supporter who often comes to ER with our crowd because being just that and I accept what he says as being an honest take on things as he sees them .

I love how you call someone in their 70s a lad :greengrin

[Jack]

TBH, he's probably getting on with his job or his holiday. The fact that he's not being pestered by intrepid reporters, keen to get the real truth, will suit him fine.

If there's a meeting on Friday, he'll be doing what he can to influence the outcome. If there's not, he won't.

It still must take time for him and/or his staff to do the necessary background work needed to field the questions that must surely be coming their way.

More in fees, more unnecessary expense caused by allisbarry. I wonder just how much he has cost them since last summer?

[Sergey]

Thanks, couldn't be bothered unravelling the story. Presumably when you can't speak to your contacts you use Google translate?

On a side note. There is a worrying level of homophobia on JKB, that some might suggest points towards denial and diversion. Why else use a word like bumhammer?

Hope the girls over there will be a bit more comfortable with themselves soon. Let's face it, they won't be able to use The Famous as a diversionary tactic much longer.

In a similar vein, I would have thought that even the most liberal admin. would draw the line at making fun of Learning Disabilities.

The online translation tools for Lithuanian just about suffice for translation from Lithuanian into English, but they don't work well the other way ENG-LT.

Best to get those done by someone who knows what they're talking about and trying to say.

I got RobinP's reply translated for him on Friday as it had a typo in the LT reply and subsequently the online translators could make no sense of it.

[Heisenberg]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/269279-hearts-could-get-green-light-from-lithuania-to-transfer-shares-next-week/

[Phil D. Rolls]

Here is the google translate for the admins quote from Lithuanian into English.

"Re-informs you that the information on the 28 March. ŪBIG meeting of creditors have"

His translation came from some other source.

Yes, he confirmed that. So just to summarise for our guests: Sergey admits he can't speak Lithuanian (contrary to a post in The Bunker, across the road). Any speculation about whether he used Google translate, should bear in mind his assertion that he CANNOT SPEAK LITHUANIAN.

I'm surprised that the press haven't picked up on the news on here. After getting every turn of the SEVCO story wrong, you'd think they'd be more alert to social media.

That'll be the same press that didn't ask questions about the share certificates, the same press that seems to have been taken aback by Hearts administration; the same press that reports an attendance of 13k at the PBS when it was clearly 9,000.

If I was a Yam, I'd be relying on the press rather than a bunch of Hobo fantasists too. The press have been spot on with everything so far. The Hobo fantasists have been lucky that's all.

[GreenLake]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/269279-hearts-could-get-green-light-from-lithuania-to-transfer-shares-next-week/

So Sergey was bang on and Banderson was talking crap!

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/269279-hearts-could-get-green-light-from-lithuania-to-transfer-shares-next-week/

Does that mean the freezer will get switched off?

[tomf]

There's a confusion between nominal value, issue price and share premiums here. The 2008 share issue consisted of £34,285,714 shares with a nominal value of 10p - that increased the share capital by £3.4m (rounded off). They were issued at a price of 35p - a premium of 25p - which increased the share premium by £8.5m. The issue reduced debt £12m - 34m x 35p. The other conversion followed a similar pattern.

The real question was why this was done. The club was already worthless and this action reduced UBIG's potentially recoverable debtor into an unrecoverable (i.e. worthless) investment. Since UBIG was an investment-based concern it seems likely that the motive was to falsely inflate their balance sheet by massively overvaluing the HoMFC shareholding.

I appreciate you clarification although I am not sure that I follow it completely...however, I bow to your superior economic knowledge; my point was that the "facts and figures" I have used come from the Hearts own website. If there is a confusion over the vaue of the shares and the arithmetic involved it is entirely theirs.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/269279-hearts-could-get-green-light-from-lithuania-to-transfer-shares-next-week/

Finally, someone actually asks the questions. Took them long enough :greengrin

So, the UBIG woman was telling the truth.

Bazza got the companies wrong :rolleyes:

As I suggested earlier today, the UBIG meeting IS taking place, but on a different day.

[jdships]

I love how you call someone in their 70s a lad :greengrin

It's all ego related ! :greengrin
When you are 70 or over " Ego" kicks in and you live off little throw away's :wink:
I am 83 and am chuffed when my good mate , 65 , says " right lad fancy a pint ? "

Remember " Beauty is in the eye of the beholder " as is age !!!!!

:thumbsup:

[Dashing Bob S]

Get a grip man. The first rule when playing "tease the roaster" is don't mention "tease the roaster".

I believe that an inverted version of the game known as 'roast the teaser', will be launched on Friday.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Finally, someone actually asks the questions. Took them long enough :greengrin

So, the UBIG woman was telling the truth.

Bazza got the companies wrong :rolleyes:

As I suggested earlier today, the UBIG meeting IS taking place, but on a different day.

But it does appear that things are moving in FOHs direction?

[GreenLake]

Finally, someone actually asks the questions. Took them long enough :greengrin

So, the UBIG woman was telling the truth.

Bazza got the companies wrong :rolleyes:

As I suggested earlier today, the UBIG meeting IS taking place, but on a different day.

A different week but yet to be confirmed. I hope they tell the UBIG administrator. :greengrin

[BH Hibs]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/269279-hearts-could-get-green-light-from-lithuania-to-transfer-shares-next-week/

So it looks like it's going to the freezer test then?

[Craig_in_Prague]

But it does appear that things are moving in FOHs direction?

You mean Purple pants?

Looks like it.

Just hope UBIG meeting is delayed......

and is it true then or not, that last step is all approved by the lith. courts?

[HappyAsHellas]

Linked from brokeback, STV report;



The administrator in charge of Heart of Midlothian’s largest creditor has told STV he believes the deal to transfer shares in the club to the new owners will be given the green light next week.
Gintaras Adomonis of Valnetas UAB, the firm overseeing the bankruptcy of Vladimir Romanov’s collapsed Ukio Bankas, confirmed a meeting of the creditors of the bank will convene on Friday.
Ukio is the largest creditor of Hearts, holding 29.5% of the club’s shares and Tynecastle Stadium as security over the £15m it is owed by the Edinburgh club.
It had been previously reported that the meeting on Friday was of creditors of UBIG, the holding company that controls a 49.47% stake in Hearts, but that is understood to be taking place next week.
Mr Adomonis said the transfer of shares to BIDCO in a £2.5m CVA deal should be approved on Friday, while he also expects the UBIG creditors to vote in favour of releasing their shareholding to prospective new owner Ann Budge.
A deal was agreed in principle in February for UBIG to release their shares in return for a one-off payment, reported to be around £50,000.
He said: “The creditors meeting held on the 28th of March will be the meeting of Ukio Bankas creditors, not UBIG.
“It is considered that the creditors of Ukio Bankas will approve the deal of Hearts sale to BIDCO. There are no reasons to believe in any other decision as no alternatives have been proposed to be included in the agenda.
“As far as we know, UBIG’s creditors meeting is planned at the end of the next week, but it is still to be confirmed.
“We believe that the creditors of UBIG will also approve the deal during the meeting and it will be green lights all the way.
“If the approval by the creditors of Ukio Bankas and UBIG is on hand, the process will move forward as soon as possible.”
Hearts entered administration in June last year, with BDO overseeing the process.
They were deducted 15 points for the Scottish Premiership season and an embargo on new player registrations for the duration of the administration.