Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Inch Hibs]

The smell of undercover Yammery is about....

Question anything hearts related against the grain on here and get called a "yam" off a couple of half wits. Well I never :)

[Aldo]

Question anything hearts related against the grain on here and get called a "yam" off a couple of half wits. Well I never :) I think it was a more general comment. Not directed at person in particular. Your adding fuel to the fire with this post bud!! Don't bite

[Paisley Hibby]

He's only asking questions. Debate is good. Don't want to end up like the yams where if you don't toe the #allisbarry line you are forced of the board.

Spot on mate.

[Kato]

He's only asking questions. Debate is good. Don't want to end up like the yams where if you don't toe the #allisbarry line you are forced of the board.

Debate is good, agreed. Saying that there isn't any evidence they could liquidate doesn't have the makings of a very good debate though. They are in Administration after all, and their admins are telling everyone there's a finite amount of money left. There's a clue that they might right there.

[portycabbage]

And they wonder why their sales are falling.

Not surprising with an Addams Family extra as a deputy editor.

https://twitter.com/EuanMc

Forget the hyberbole Euan, just remember to check Baz's facts.

I actually know Euan as our kids are friends, he's a really nice bloke, will have to inform him that his colleague's picture is in the dictionary next to the word "clueless" though.

[One Day Soon]

Question anything hearts related against the grain on here and get called a "yam" off a couple of half wits. Well I never :)

You're a sensitive soul.

I didn't specifically call you out as a Yam, you just put that label on yourself.

[tamig]

FoH Question.

I never venture on to their site so not sure if it's answered there. What are their plans for a board?

I can imagine the KB crew of the boy craigie, .lawson, the Attenboroughs and co champing at the bit to oversee corporate governance.

They are alleged to be ready to roll but who will be running the show - if, indeed, it ever comes to pass?

[Craig_in_Prague]

FoH Question.

I never venture on to their site so not sure if it's answered there. What are their plans for a board?

I can imagine the KB crew of the boy craigie, .lawson, the Attenboroughs and co champing at the bit to oversee corporate governance.

They are alleged to be ready to roll but who will be running the show - if, indeed, it ever comes to pass?

It has been lots of fun for months and months now, its great right now and even if they get control and out of admin, you do sense the fun aint over.

[bingo70]

FoH Question.

I never venture on to their site so not sure if it's answered there. What are their plans for a board?

I can imagine the KB crew of the boy craigie, .lawson, the Attenboroughs and co champing at the bit to oversee corporate governance.

They are alleged to be ready to roll but who will be running the show - if, indeed, it ever comes to pass?

I think that's a more valid question since ford and Mackie jumped ship the other month.

Pretty sure they were going to be key members of the board

[SmashinGlass]

Last seasons season tickets has lasted this far so im pretty sure next seasons won't just last until the end of the season.

They won't have money no, they will be Humpty in the first with a squad diluted and miles behind rangers with a possible points deduction but liquidation?

I think I've quoted the wrong post here, but I believe you previously said there was no evidence of them being at risk of liquidation. I counter you by suggesting the evidence is staring you in the face. They are currently subject to an insolvency event (admin). That's all the evidence you need that they're in danger of going into liquidation.

Take it from me, having worked in the insolvency profession for 12 years, I saw many an admin in that time and only ever witnessed 1 cva. They don't happen often and the vast vast majority of admins end in a newco with subsequent liquidation. Look what happened to the currant buns for evidence of that scenario.

[Kato]

FoH Question.

I never venture on to their site so not sure if it's answered there. What are their plans for a board?

I can imagine the KB crew of the boy craigie, .lawson, the Attenboroughs and co champing at the bit to oversee corporate governance.

They are alleged to be ready to roll but who will be running the show - if, indeed, it ever comes to pass?

That is my preferred outcome, seeing Hearts run by a set of pompous, self-regarding Uber-Trumpets. Step Up, FoH.

[tamig]

That is my preferred outcome, seeing Hearts run by a set of pompous, self-regarding Uber-Trumpets. Step Up, FoH.

Well IM MP has stated he'll quit when it all goes through. More internal posturing and carnage awaits.

[Aldo]

That is my preferred outcome, seeing Hearts run by a set of pompous, self-regarding Uber-Trumpets. Step Up, FoH.

For me the only good thing to come of this is that they won't or shouldn't be able to spend thousands and thousands per week they don't have on players wages.

ST money etc will be it (plus prize money) will be what they will have to work with.

Still would prefer them deid.

[Caversham Green]

I think I've quoted the wrong post here, but I believe you previously said there was no evidence of them being at risk of liquidation. I counter you by suggesting the evidence is staring you in the face. They are currently subject to an insolvency event (admin). That's all the evidence you need that they're in danger of going into liquidation.

Take it from me, having worked in the insolvency profession for 12 years, I saw many an admin in that time and only ever witnessed 1 cva. They don't happen often and the vast vast majority of admins end in a newco with subsequent liquidation. Look what happened to the currant buns for evidence of that scenario.

Just to add to this, The administrators are duty-bound to maintain the club as a going concern, if they can't do that they will have no choice but to liquidate. Using next year's income to finance this year's operations is strong evidence that they are not a going concern.

The money from season tickets sold last year has lasted this far, but by their own admission it is now running out. If that happens before they can exit administration BDO's options are very limited.

[tamig]

If that money can last until March they then sell season tickets/bake cakes to raise more no?

Other guys have replied to other posts you've raised but you have to realise that BDO aren't keeping them afloat on what they raised in ST sales alone. There is still a dependency on other income - mainly walk ups - to see them through. They've got a bonus with the semi but the walk up numbers haven't been great. This will all put a strain on BDO steering them successfully through admin. Can you still not see that liquidation is a real possibility?

[Deek9]

Does anyone know by what date they need to be out of admin to avoid another points deduction next season?

[Mikey]

Does anyone know by what date they need to be out of admin to avoid another points deduction next season?

I don't think anyone knows it for sure. Sometime between the last game of this season and the first game of next season is about the best answer you'll get :greengrin

[Dunderhall]

Well IM MP has stated he'll quit when it all goes through. More internal posturing and carnage awaits.
Without a doubt I'd say.
Latest (still draft docs) have both Bidco and FoH board as sharing control over the Hearts board appointments.
FoH directors these days have 5 different fan groups involved with a history of bickering and self serving.

[SmashinGlass]

Does anyone know by what date they need to be out of admin to avoid another points deduction next season?

No definitive date. My feeling, as with many others here, is that if they do not exit admin prior to the end of this season, they won't be around to start next season. In that case, it's largely a moot point

[QMU-1875]

Question anything hearts related against the grain on here and get called a "yam" off a couple of half wits. Well I never :)

Wouldn't worry about, I kind of agree with you. They certainly are not close to liquidation and the folk on here giving people grief about having another point of view are as bad as the yams who don't realise their club will never be as it was!

[Craig_in_Prague]

No definitive date. My feeling, as with many others here, is that if they do not exit admin prior to the end of this season, they won't be around to start next season. In that case, it's largely a moot point

yup, feel something has to give by season end.
Folks often mention ST prices "depending on which league"... but No league is a possibility!

[Craig_in_Prague]

Wouldn't worry about, I kind of agree with you. They certainly are not close to liquidation and the folk on here giving people grief about having another point of view are as bad as the yams who don't realise their club will never be as it was!

They have to be as close to Liquidation, as one could be ??

[Aldo]

They have to be as close to Liquidation, as one could be ??

Agree and the next 4 or so weeks without a home game is gonnae hurt them bad. No income.

[Zondervan]

This would be the self same group who are in so much danger of being burnt out and coming to permanent physical and psychological harm it is a health and safety issue.

Yet when the opportunity arises to run down a suspension they slip an extra game in there, because it suits them to do so, with little thought to the brave wee soldiers well being.

Liars as well as cheats. It the Hearts way.

Hopefully they will get a couple of players sent off for violent conduct in the rearranged St Mirren game. Which would be nice.

[Deek9]

yup, feel something has to give by season end.
Folks often mention ST prices "depending on which league"... but No league is a possibility!
Aye, but if they get through the semi they may make it to season end. Really think rules need to be clear on this otherwise the league will interpret as they wish.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Agree and the next 4 or so weeks without a home game is gonnae hurt them bad. No income.

Its really the shares and the situation in Lithuania, which to me could see them Liquidated. Its out of there hands and time is not on their side (yet, seems not to matter a jot with that lot).
I can see 400,000 blank faces in a while, wondering why theres now a new Tesco near the wonderful Robbos bar.

[Hibbyradge]

Aye, but if they get through the semi they may make it to season end. Really think rules need to be clear on this otherwise the league will interpret as they wish.

What rule isn't clear?

[oconnors_strip]

Agree and the next 4 or so weeks without a home game is gonnae hurt them bad. No income.

They have got a home game next Wednesday against st mirren

[clerriehibs]

I think I've quoted the wrong post here, but I believe you previously said there was no evidence of them being at risk of liquidation. I counter you by suggesting the evidence is staring you in the face. They are currently subject to an insolvency event (admin). That's all the evidence you need that they're in danger of going into liquidation.

Take it from me, having worked in the insolvency profession for 12 years, I saw many an admin in that time and only ever witnessed 1 cva. They don't happen often and the vast vast majority of admins end in a newco with subsequent liquidation. Look what happened to the currant buns for evidence of that scenario.


But fitba's different - or so we keep getting told. Christ knows why it should be; a ***** business is a ***** business, after all

[Aldo]

They have got a home game next Wednesday against st mirren

Aaah forgot bout that silly me.

[clerriehibs]

Just to add to this, The administrators are duty-bound to maintain the club as a going concern, if they can't do that they will have no choice but to liquidate. Using next year's income to finance this year's operations is strong evidence that they are not a going concern.

The money from season tickets sold last year has lasted this far, but by their own admission it is now running out. If that happens before they can exit administration BDO's options are very limited.

BDO have their own agenda, maybe not bound by professional standards.
The Murray and Souther goings on, as an example

[Andy74]

BDO have their own agenda, maybe not bound by professional standards.
The Murray and Souther goings on, as an example

I think the BDO chaps enjoy running football clubs for a bit. Probably have their eyes on careers on that front in due course. Not exactly the point of court appointed administrators.

[Deek9]

What rule isn't clear?

Sorry, omitted previous quote. The date they need to be out of admin to avoid another points deduction next season?

[SmashinGlass]

Wouldn't worry about, I kind of agree with you. They certainly are not close to liquidation and the folk on here giving people grief about having another point of view are as bad as the yams who don't realise their club will never be as it was!

Ask yourself this. If they are not close to Liquidation, why are they listed on Companies House as being subject to Administration which, incidentally, is governed by the Insolvency (Scotland) Act 1986. As I stated previously I have a wealth of experience in these matters, indeed I actually even used to work for BDO's very own Bryan Jackson. If you can't believe me, or any one of a number of people qualified to make such statements on the matter then I don't know what can be suggested to you in order to make you look at the situation from an alternative angle. Nobody is giving anyone who thinks the yams won't be liquidated grief, we're simply giving a realistic (arguably more realistic) point of view. :agree:

[CyberSauzee]

Just to add to this, The administrators are duty-bound to maintain the club as a going concern, if they can't do that they will have no choice but to liquidate. Using next year's income to finance this year's operations is strong evidence that they are not a going concern.

The money from season tickets sold last year has lasted this far, but by their own admission it is now running out. If that happens before they can exit administration BDO's options are very limited.

I do love a Cav Green post: succinct, concise, easy to understand and thought provoking.

Banderson take note: try and stick to facts like above rather than your vermicular and unqualified prose.

[clerriehibs]

Ask yourself this. If they are not close to Liquidation, why are they listed on Companies House as being subject to Administration which, incidentally, is governed by the Insolvency (Scotland) Act 1986. As I stated previously I have a wealth of experience in these matters, indeed I actually even used to work for BDO's very own Bryan Jackson. If you can't believe me, or any one of a number of people qualified to make such statements on the matter then I don't know what can be suggested to you in order to make you look at the situation from an alternative angle. Nobody is giving anyone who thinks the yams won't be liquidated grief, we're simply giving a realistic (arguably more realistic) point of view. :agree:

Do the bookies offer odds on liquidation or succesful cva in these situations?

Is Bryan Jackson a fud?

[Ronniekirk]

I think I've quoted the wrong post here, but I believe you previously said there was no evidence of them being at risk of liquidation. I counter you by suggesting the evidence is staring you in the face. They are currently subject to an insolvency event (admin). That's all the evidence you need that they're in danger of going into liquidation.

Take it from me, having worked in the insolvency profession for 12 years, I saw many an admin in that time and only ever witnessed 1 cva. They don't happen often and the vast vast majority of admins end in a newco with subsequent liquidation. Look what happened to the currant buns for evidence of that scenario.

What makes this one so complicated is the Lithuanian connection and the legal machinations out there. Does everything just take longer or is there disagreement between parties that we are unaware of .With the current buns it was fairly obvious even to someone like me that Craig Whyte s job was to take them into liquidation as the debts were so huge and big tax case was too risky in the west coast the whole scenario was on the news constantly and almost the sole topic of debate .So like it or not you got more than a basic understanding of some issues .This one gets no coverage at all and you kind of just assume it's a forgone conclusion that at some point before end of March time the will get some sort of deal done via cva If liquidation was in the offing would there not be a bigger story brewing and some journalist would be on to it .? maybe that's why for so long there has been complacency with the yams .

[Ronniekirk]

Do the bookies offer odds on liquidation or succesful cva in these situations?

Is Bryan Jackson a fud?

Dont think you would get any decent odds at bookies on your second question

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Agree and the next 4 or so weeks without a home game is gonnae hurt them bad. No income.

.....and quite possibly without a league point either :-)

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Their entire season/future now boils down to reaching the small cup final.

[jacomo]

Brian Jackson said on arrival at Hearts it was the worst position he'd ever seen. The company had no cash and big outgoings, even after trimming the squad back.

After hawking the club to possible buyers, he flushed out three interested parties: one had nearly destroyed Livingston after a string of broken promises, one was deemed to have zero credibility, and the winner was FoH who have an unproven business model and could only rustle up £2.5m - widely accepted to be a lot lower than the land value of Tynecastle. No one else would touch it with a barge pole.

Meanwhile, they are caught up in an international criminal investigation, which means the shares they need to buy to come out of admin are frozen by the Lithuanian courts, and there is no confirmed timescale for their release.

Oh, and they don't have enough cash to last the season.

People said Rangers couldn't be liquidated. Can Hearts really avoid the same fate?

[Caversham Green]

But fitba's different - or so we keep getting told. Christ knows why it should be; a ***** business is a ***** business, after all

There's some truth in that tbf. For example no other business would have got away with taking money for 'shares' with the stated purpose of just staying in business and then failing to actually issue those shares. From a professional point of view I don't think HoMFC should have got away with it either - it was almost certainly fraudulent - but the utter stupidity of football fans in general and yams in particular means they have got away with it.

I include myself in that point about fans by the way, I said at the time that I would have bought shares if it had been Hibs in that position. I would have been kicking up hell in the summer though.


BDO have their own agenda, maybe not bound by professional standards.
The Murray and Souther goings on, as an example

BDO's agenda now is to deliver HoMFC to its prospective owners in a condition that means they can carry on business for the future. That would be the same for any administrator at this stage of the game and they are still bound by professional and legal standards. However there are still a number of obstacles in their way - the passage of time being a major one - and whether they can overcome them all remains to be seen. If they can't then liquidation appears to be the only alternative.

[Saorsa]

Brian Jackson said on arrival at Hearts it was the worst position he'd ever seen. The company had no cash and big outgoings, even after trimming the squad back.

After hawking the club to possible buyers, he flushed out three interested parties: one had nearly destroyed Livingston after a string of broken promises, one was deemed to have zero credibility, and the winner was FoH who have an unproven business model and could only rustle up £2.5m - widely accepted to be a lot lower than the land value of Tynecastle. No one else would touch it with a barge pole.

Meanwhile, they are caught up in an international criminal investigation, which means the shares they need to buy to come out of admin are frozen by the Lithuanian courts, and there is no confirmed timescale for their release.

Oh, and they don't have enough cash to last the season.

People said Rangers couldn't be liquidated. Can Hearts really avoid the same fate?You clearly havnae read the expert opinion at the top of the page. "They certainly are not close to liquidation" :agree::greengrin

[jacomo]

You clearly havnae read the expert opinion at the top of the page. "They certainly are not close to liquidation" :agree::greengrin

They certainly are not close to be saved, that's for sure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25846992

If this is correct, they can't hope to have the CVA approved before the end of Feb. Given it took Dunfermline 5 months from that point to come out of admin, they will be doing amazingly well to do that before the summer. That would mean starting the next season in the Championship on -15.

Ouch. And this looks like the best possible outcome for them.

[SmashinGlass]

Do the bookies offer odds on liquidation or succesful cva in these situations?

Is Bryan Jackson a fud?

First question, I honestly don't know.

Second question, no, he's actually a really sound guy. I never worked with him too intimately, but the limited contact I had with the guy he was pretty decent and down to earth.

[DC_Hibs]

Aaah forgot bout that silly me.

No worries, 1000-2000 walk ups is hardly going to save them once their expenses are deducted - police, stewarding, electricity, child porn etc.
Assuming these are being paid by the fraudulent f(_)kdogs.

[clerriehibs]

There's some truth in that tbf. For example no other business would have got away with taking money for 'shares' with the stated purpose of just staying in business and then failing to actually issue those shares. From a professional point of view I don't think HoMFC should have got away with it either - it was almost certainly fraudulent - but the utter stupidity of football fans in general and yams in particular means they have got away with it.

I include myself in that point about fans by the way, I said at the time that I would have bought shares if it had been Hibs in that position. I would have been kicking up hell in the summer though.



BDO's agenda now is to deliver HoMFC to its prospective owners in a condition that means they can carry on business for the future. That would be the same for any administrator at this stage of the game and they are still bound by professional and legal standards. However there are still a number of obstacles in their way - the passage of time being a major one - and whether they can overcome them all remains to be seen. If they can't then liquidation appears to be the only alternative.

Like others, I like reading your objective analyses. But what's this about the yam fans being particularly stupid (unless you meant "case in point")? Much as any hibby would love it to be true, I don't think anyone can seriously claim they're significantly thicker, as a group, than the average football fan?

Or are they ...

[Jonnyboy]

Like others, I like reading your objective analyses. But what's this about the yam fans being particularly stupid (unless you meant "case in point")? Much as any hibby would love it to be true, I don't think anyone can seriously claim they're significantly thicker, as a group, than the average football fan?

Or are they ...

They're certainly a lot more gullible :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Do the bookies offer odds on liquidation or succesful cva in these situations?

Is Bryan Jackson a fud?

Probably not and definitely no.

[Ronniekirk]

They have got a home game next Wednesday against st mirren

Mid week against st mirren before cup game that will be test for the support .if they get over 10 000 then some one there canne count

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the BDO chaps enjoy running football clubs for a bit. Probably have their eyes on careers on that front in due course. Not exactly the point of court appointed administrators.

The point is to try and preserve the business as a going concern. They are still doing that. If and When that is no longer feasible, they will stop. If and when they succeed, they will stop.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Was impressed again with wee Januzaj in the Man Utd game this evening. Setting up a goal deep into extra time. Heard the commentator say at one point, "he's still so young but you really could play a game every day when you're 18". He's obviously not been briefed about the 2014 health and safety concerns.

[gorgie greens]

They have got a home game next Wednesday against st mirren

A bit miffed at this fixture popping up,the thought of no paying punters for 6 weeks was most pleasing,mind you a wednesday night game against St Midden surely a full hoose,hopefully there will be some champions league game on that night and you can count the crowd on one hand,And hopefully Yogis boys will end there extra income from the cup run and you can start putting the for sale signs up.

[oconnors_strip]

A bit miffed at this fixture popping up,the thought of no paying punters for 6 weeks was most pleasing,mind you a wednesday night game against St Midden surely a full hoose,hopefully there will be some champions league game on that night and you can count the crowd on one hand,And hopefully Yogis boys will end there extra income from the cup run and you can start putting the for sale signs up.

The majority of fans who will attend the match will be season ticket holders so hearts won't make much money from this game. They will give the usual higher attendance figure as per usual. It's probably actually going to cost the club more in the long run to host this game on a Wednesday night due to paying for security/staff/catering etc

[EK_Hibs]

I've not been following the latest goings on with those thieving shameless morons. What's the score with them now? Is liquidation still a goer or is that unlikely now? Anyone?

[The_Todd]

Exclusive in this morning's Scotsman: "Shares still frozen, but the rubber stamp will fix that. Probably. Maybe #Allverycomplex"

Is this some sort of magic rubber stamp they're all hoping on?

[Kaiser1962]

Just to add to this, The administrators are duty-bound to maintain the club as a going concern, if they can't do that they will have no choice but to liquidate. Using next year's income to finance this year's operations is strong evidence that they are not a going concern.

The money from season tickets sold last year has lasted this far, but by their own admission it is now running out. If that happens before they can exit administration BDO's options are very limited.

It is also worth noting that they are operating at much reduced staffing levels who are working for much reduced wages. All that will change if/when they exit administration.

[Caversham Green]

I've not been following the latest goings on with those thieving shameless morons. What's the score with them now? Is liquidation still a goer or is that unlikely now? Anyone?

Much depends on timing now. They need to get the deal done before BDO run out of cash, which they have predicted to be February /March. However, the timing of the deal is out of BDO's hands but can't happen until it's approved at a meeting which will take place at the end of February and until the Lithuanian court releases the shares, which remain frozen. The ever-reliable Barry Anderson (who has at last twigged that they are frozen) believes that to be a rubber stamp job, but hasn't put a timescale on it - it probably can't happen until after the UBIG meeting, so that takes us into March. If all that happens in time they can start the process of exiting administration - typically another 4-6 weeks.

Liquidation remains a distinct possibility IMHO.

[Onion]

What makes this one so complicated is the Lithuanian connection and the legal machinations out there. Does everything just take longer or is there disagreement between parties that we are unaware of .With the current buns it was fairly obvious even to someone like me that Craig Whyte s job was to take them into liquidation as the debts were so huge and big tax case was too risky in the west coast the whole scenario was on the news constantly and almost the sole topic of debate .So like it or not you got more than a basic understanding of some issues .This one gets no coverage at all and you kind of just assume it's a forgone conclusion that at some point before end of March time the will get some sort of deal done via cva If liquidation was in the offing would there not be a bigger story brewing and some journalist would be on to it .? maybe that's why for so long there has been complacency with the yams .

PR is key to BDO getting Hearts out of Admin. If there is any suggestion in the press that liquidation looks inevitable, then the game is up for BDO. Yams will not renew STs, they will stop their DDs and the atmosphere around the club will collapse. BDO know this and will probably have briefed all the journos about the dangers of mentioning the L word.

[Bostonhibby]

Was impressed again with wee Januzaj in the Man Utd game this evening. Setting up a goal deep into extra time. Heard the commentator say at one point, "he's still so young but you really could play a game every day when you're 18". He's obviously not been briefed about the 2014 health and safety concerns.

:agree: This kid is an exceptional prospect but as you say he is not yam class - doubt they would take him anyway as I am sure I read on yakback that their "special relationship" is with Liverpool.

Liverpool, the only EPL club to be bumped for money by the yam.

[Peevemor]

PR is key to BDO getting Hearts out of Admin. If there is any suggestion in the press that liquidation looks inevitable, then the game is up for BDO. Yams will not renew STs, they will stop their DDs and the atmosphere around the club will collapse. BDO know this and will probably have briefed all the journos about the dangers of mentioning the L word.

Exactly, although at the end of each positive statement issued by BDO, there's the wee "we're not 100% sure" disclaimer to cover their backsides.

[Geo_1875]

Exclusive in this morning's Scotsman: "Shares still frozen, but the rubber stamp will fix that. Probably. Maybe #Allverycomplex"

Is this some sort of magic rubber stamp they're all hoping on?

I think they have the Rubber Stamp at the ready.

They've just misplaced the Ink Pad.

[Liberal Hibby]

Much depends on timing now. They need to get the deal done before BDO run out of cash, which they have predicted to be February /March. However, the timing of the deal is out of BDO's hands but can't happen until it's approved at a meeting which will take place at the end of February and until the Lithuanian court releases the shares, which remain frozen. The ever-reliable Barry Anderson (who has at last twigged that they are frozen) believes that to be a rubber stamp job, but hasn't put a timescale on it - it probably can't happen until after the UBIG meeting, so that takes us into March. If all that happens in time they can start the process of exiting administration - typically another 4-6 weeks.

Liquidation remains a distinct possibility IMHO.

Isn't the meeting at the end of February a Ukio Bank meeting? UBIG are in the process of establishing a creditors committee 'in the first quarter'. Or have I got this wrong.

Anyway whatever they are getting perilously close to the season end in administration and a further 15 point deduction next season (if they survive).

[Glory Lurker]

A rubber stamp, yesterday:-

http://bowtielaw.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/no-rubber-stamp.jpg

[The Hibee Harp]

Much depends on timing now. They need to get the deal done before BDO run out of cash, which they have predicted to be February /March. However, the timing of the deal is out of BDO's hands but can't happen until it's approved at a meeting which will take place at the end of February and until the Lithuanian court releases the shares, which remain frozen. The ever-reliable Barry Anderson (who has at last twigged that they are frozen) believes that to be a rubber stamp job, but hasn't put a timescale on it - it probably can't happen until after the UBIG meeting, so that takes us into March. If all that happens in time they can start the process of exiting administration - typically another 4-6 weeks.

Liquidation remains a distinct possibility IMHO.


Do the UBIG administrators have any input into the unfreezing of the shares, or is it likely that they would possibly agree to the sale and it would be passed over to the Lith courts?

Unless the Lith investigations have already looked into financial transactions involving Hearts I cannot see how they could allow any sale until such time as they had, nor could I see them fast-track a review of those transactions for the sake of a relatively small stake in a foreign country.

[jacomo]

I've not been following the latest goings on with those thieving shameless morons. What's the score with them now? Is liquidation still a goer or is that unlikely now? Anyone?

Why not read through the last few pages of this thread? That should bring up to date with current thinking. :aok:

[Onion]

Isn't the meeting at the end of February a Ukio Bank meeting? UBIG are in the process of establishing a creditors committee 'in the first quarter'. Or have I got this wrong.

Anyway whatever they are getting perilously close to the season end in administration and a further 15 point deduction next season (if they survive).

Just to be clear, if they're in Admin at the season end do they auto get the 15 pt penalty. Or is it only if they're in Admin at the start of the new season ?

[The Hibee Harp]

Just to be clear, if they're in Admin at the season end do they auto get the 15 pt penalty. Or is it only if they're in Admin at the start of the new season ?

I think it is a grey area however given they used the end of last season as a cut-off point for avoiding relegation it would be interesting to see them argue that it should be the start of the season as a cut-off point should they come out of adminstration during the close season.

[Jack Hackett]

Just to be clear, if they're in Admin at the season end do they auto get the 15 pt penalty. Or is it only if they're in Admin at the start of the new season ?

Nobody seems clear on this, but in the interest of sporting integrity, it would have to be the beginning of June as this was the date they used to avoid being relegated, because this was deemed the new season beginning

[Saorsa]

Exclusive in this morning's Scotsman: "Shares still frozen, but the rubber stamp will fix that. Probably. Maybe #Allverycomplex"

Is this some sort of magic rubber stamp they're all hoping on?The Magic Rubber Stamp, sounds like a fairy tale.



The Magic Rubber Stamp
by
Barry Christian Anderson

http://i41.tinypic.com/2nov8p.png

[Onion]

Do the UBIG administrators have any input into the unfreezing of the shares, or is it likely that they would possibly agree to the sale and it would be passed over to the Lith courts?

Unless the Lith investigations have already looked into financial transactions involving Hearts I cannot see how they could allow any sale until such time as they had, nor could I see them fast-track a review of those transactions for the sake of a relatively small stake in a foreign country.

:agree: Makes sense. Cannot see what incentive there is for the Lith courts to fast-track. Not as if the creditors are going to get anything out of it ! And the Admins/Courts are sitting on a piece of marketable Edinburgh real estate, so even the FOH £2.5M wouldn't be much of a loss.

[jacomo]

A bit miffed at this fixture popping up,the thought of no paying punters for 6 weeks was most pleasing,mind you a wednesday night game against St Midden surely a full hoose,hopefully there will be some champions league game on that night and you can count the crowd on one hand,And hopefully Yogis boys will end there extra income from the cup run and you can start putting the for sale signs up.

Don't be too miffed, it is what it is.

There will be more twists and turns in this story, a midweek game against St Mirren really means nothing in the overall scheme of things. The result of the semi final probably will be important however.

[The_Todd]

The Magic Rubber Stamp, sounds like a fairy tale.



The Magic Rubber Stamp
by
Barry Christian Anderson

http://i41.tinypic.com/2nov8p.png


:hilarious

[QMU-1875]

:agree: Makes sense. Cannot see what incentive there is for the Lith courts to fast-track. Not as if the creditors are going to get anything out of it ! And the Admins/Courts are sitting on a piece of marketable Edinburgh real estate, so even the FOH £2.5M wouldn't be much of a loss.

But they still could have which is why their has been all this noise coming out recently? The liths aren't hibees like, they couldn't care less either way!

[CropleyWasGod]

But they still could have which is why their has been all this noise coming out recently? The liths aren't hibees like, they couldn't care less either way!

They will care about the process of law.

[QMU-1875]

They will care about the process of law.

Then why on earth is Barry Anderson and the rest of the Scottish media piping up then? Surely they wouldn't just come out with this "their saved" mantra if they hadn't actually heard something. I mean as difficult as it is to believe journalists are educated so surely they can figure out that it's Lithuanian law that sees these shares frozen and that because of this their is nothing hearts can do?

[The Hibee Harp]

Then why on earth is Barry Anderson and the rest of the Scottish media piping up then? Surely they wouldn't just come out with this "their saved" mantra if they hadn't actually heard something. I mean as difficult as it is to believe journalists are educated so surely they can figure out that it's Lithuanian law that sees these shares frozen and that because of this their is nothing hearts can do?

Consider what was printed about Rangers before they went belly up. The majority of Scottish football 'journalists' report what they are feed by clubs.

[CropleyWasGod]

Then why on earth is Barry Anderson and the rest of the Scottish media piping up then? Surely they wouldn't just come out with this "their saved" mantra if they hadn't actually heard something. I mean as difficult as it is to believe journalists are educated so surely they can figure out that it's Lithuanian law that sees these shares frozen and that because of this their is nothing hearts can do?

Anderson kicked off this story; the rest of the media are merely rehashing his.

To be fair to Anderson, he did say that the shares are frozen, a fact that no-one else has mentioned.

One common factor in this story, and the Rangers one, is that football journalists are being asked to write about stuff of which they have very little knowledge. In some ways that is unfair on them, but IMO they should also have the wit to ask the questions that are being asked publicly on fora like this.

Another common factor is that one should not always believe what journalists write, for the above reason if nothing else. Particularly Anderson... remember the "massive" sponsorship deal? :rolleyes:

[The_Todd]

Then why on earth is Barry Anderson and the rest of the Scottish media piping up then? Surely they wouldn't just come out with this "their saved" mantra if they hadn't actually heard something. I mean as difficult as it is to believe journalists are educated so surely they can figure out that it's Lithuanian law that sees these shares frozen and that because of this their is nothing hearts can do?

BAnderson was reporting in May that Hearts were not in imminent danger of administration. Why on earth are you basing your fact on his ramblings? He says a deal is done, FOH say the opposite. You choose to believe Banderson over FOH? Fair enough.

[Saorsa]

BAnderson was reporting in May that Hearts were not in imminent danger of administration. Why on earth are you basing your fact on his ramblings? He says a deal is done, FOH say the opposite. You choose to believe Banderson over FOH? Fair enough.He was also the first tae break the story of Wonga giving the yams a million up front, oh ma sides :hilarious

Cannae believe anybody is using him as a 'credible source' :hilarious for their argument or any other for that matter, many times they have had tae pull articles or change headlines when what they've put up has be exposed as a load of mince

[Inch Hibs]

Can BDO request the direct debit cash from the Foundation of chumps before exiting administration if money is drying up or has that been safe guarded to be used only by them when they exit admin?

[Judas Iscariot]

Can BDO request the direct debit cash from the Foundation of chumps before exiting administration if money is drying up or has that been safe guarded to be used only by them when they exit admin?

Safe guarded until after

[The_Todd]

I suppose they can ask but dipping out of FOHs funds will leave FOH short for when they need it.

Also it'd just be proof that Hearts are not a viable business if they need another 'donation'

[The Falcon]

Then why on earth is Barry Anderson and the rest of the Scottish media piping up then? Surely they wouldn't just come out with this "their saved" mantra if they hadn't actually heard something. I mean as difficult as it is to believe journalists are educated so surely they can figure out that it's Lithuanian law that sees these shares frozen and that because of this their is nothing hearts can do?

I wonder if the media would hold the same view if some insignificant Lithuanian team had pumped a Scottish bank for £70m of their money? Would they be as sympathetic to their plight?

[nribs]

Can BDO request the direct debit cash from the Foundation of chumps before exiting administration if money is drying up or has that been safe guarded to be used only by them when they exit admin?
Surely when the diddies signed up they must have been advised this money was for when they came out of admin, not to try and buy their way out of admin?

[jacomo]

Can BDO request the direct debit cash from the Foundation of chumps before exiting administration if money is drying up or has that been safe guarded to be used only by them when they exit admin?

I have always been a little unsure about this.

The explanation on FoH's website says that:

The funds will be used for:

The financing of the purchase of the majority shareholding in HoMplc; and
Other legitimate purposes/projects, subject to board and membership approval, which will assist in ensuring the financial stability and/or the betterment of HoMplc.

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/faqs/

That "other legitimate purposes" clause seems to give them a fair bit of leeway to use the funds in other ways, such as propping up the club this season... "subject to board and membership approval".

[greiang]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic. I've tried to read as many pages of this thread as I can, but 1237 pages is just too many for me to digest.

Can someone explain to me who actually owns Tynecastle the ground? Is the ground ownership part of FoH's CVA agreement, or are they simply looking to take over the running of the club, but won't own the ground they're playing on?

If Ubig & Ukio are both in liquidation, are the liquidators for these companies looking to sell the ground to recoup money for their creditors?

[poolman]

A rubber stamp, yesterday:-

http://bowtielaw.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/no-rubber-stamp.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/xaymi0.png

[Inch Hibs]

Safe guarded until after

Cheers mate.

[CropleyWasGod]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic. I've tried to read as many pages of this thread as I can, but 1237 pages is just too many for me to digest.

Can someone explain to me who actually owns Tynecastle the ground? Is the ground ownership part of FoH's CVA agreement, or are they simply looking to take over the running of the club, but won't own the ground they're playing on?

If Ubig & Ukio are both in liquidation, are the liquidators for these companies looking to sell the ground to recoup money for their creditors?

Hearts own Tynecastle.

If the CVA goes through, Hearts will still own it. FOH will be the owners of Hearts. That purchase will have been financed by the backers, who will be repaid (in theory) by the Direct Debits.

I would expect that the finance will be secured over Tynecastle, so that if it all goes Pete Tong again the backers can take it over.

[Inch Hibs]

I have always been a little unsure about this.

The explanation on FoH's website says that:

The funds will be used for:

The financing of the purchase of the majority shareholding in HoMplc; and
Other legitimate purposes/projects, subject to board and membership approval, which will assist in ensuring the financial stability and/or the betterment of HoMplc.

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/faqs/

That "other legitimate purposes" clause seems to give them a fair bit of leeway to use the funds in other ways, such as propping up the club this season... "subject to board and membership approval".

So many loopholes as their track record of avoiding the ***** tells me if they wanted they would use that money.

[Spike Mandela]

Hearts own Tynecastle.

If the CVA goes through, Hearts will still own it. FOH will be the owners of Hearts. That purchase will have been financed by the backers, who will be repaid (in theory) by the Direct Debits.

I would expect that the finance will be secured over Tynecastle, so that if it all goes Pete Tong again the backers can take it over.

These securities don't appear to be worth the paper they are written on. Did UKIO not have a security over Tynecastle to the value of £6.8m?

[Inch Hibs]

Hearts own Tynecastle.

If the CVA goes through, Hearts will still own it. FOH will be the owners of Hearts. That purchase will have been financed by the backers, who will be repaid (in theory) by the Direct Debits.

I would expect that the finance will be secured over Tynecastle, so that if it all goes Pete Tong again the backers can take it over.


Another thing I've never understood is why they where allowed to go I to administration and bump loads of companies/charities without being told to sell assets ie the crumbling ****hole to raise funds? It's surely not right they bump loads of companies and still own assets worth a few million?

[CropleyWasGod]

Another thing I've never understood is why they where allowed to go I to administration and bump loads of companies/charities without being told to sell assets ie the crumbling ****hole to raise funds? It's surely not right they bump loads of companies and still own assets worth a few million?

Had they done that, UKIO would have got all the money that the sale raised. They have security over Tynecastle.

Since Vlad stopped supporting Hearts financially, I can't think of a credible scenario whereby the small creditors would have been paid.

[CropleyWasGod]

These securities don't appear to be worth the paper they are written on. Did UKIO not have a security over Tynecastle to the value of £6.8m?

The difference with this one is that the security will "only" be for a couple of million. That loan should be covered by the value of Tynie.

[Inch Hibs]

Had they done that, UKIO would have got all the money that the sale raised. They have security over Tynecastle.

Since Vlad stopped supporting Hearts financially, I can't think of a credible scenario whereby the small creditors would have been paid.

I see, fair do's. Why didn't ukios admin or temp admin demand this then? Seems like they just say back said zip now getting paid peanuts?

[CropleyWasGod]

I see, fair do's. Why didn't ukios admin or temp admin demand this then? Seems like they just say back said zip now getting paid peanuts?

Had they demanded that, ie by calling in their security, HMFC would have gone into administration immediately. So the end result would have been the same.

[Inch Hibs]

Had they demanded that, ie by calling in their security, HMFC would have gone into administration immediately. So the end result would have been the same.

Should have done it anyway IMO :)

[CropleyWasGod]

Should have done it anyway IMO :)

Actually, I am thinking that it wouldn't have been administration, it would have been liquidation.

Only they can say why they didn't do it. Perhaps they thought that they would get the full value of their security. In hindsight, that may have been a poor choice.

[Hank Schrader]

Should have done it anyway IMO :)

Iv an inkling that the administration process is going to drag on for a while yet.

[Jack]

About the subsequent points penalty.

I've just had a look at what happened to Dunfermline. It looks like they took their hit last season which in effect put them down.

In the close season, July, their CVA was agreed and they were on their way out of administration but didn't actually do so until December. There was no points deduction this season.

So. No further forward there then unless an agreed CVA is taken as that 'exiting administration event' and they escaped the further points deduction that way. I do seem to recall there being a bit of a hiccup when they had to go back to court and a further points deduction was mentioned but I'm not sure how official that all was.

With regard to the UBIG shares, and possibly the UKIO ones. Am I right in thinking that some of these shares will have been acquired in the debt for equity swaps? £20+ million worth?

Another hazy memory is that this was a bit dodgy so perhaps how these came about will be the subject of more legal scrutiny than might otherwise have been in the already #allverycomplicated legal proceedings.

A dodgy UK company, the yams; dodgy Lithuanian companies; dodgy share transfer. Anyone any idea which country any court case would be heard in?

[Seveno]

About the subsequent points penalty.

I've just had a look at what happened to Dunfermline. It looks like they took their hit last season which in effect put them down.

In the close season, July, their CVA was agreed and they were on their way out of administration but didn't actually do so until December. There was no points deduction this season.

So. No further forward there then unless an agreed CVA is taken as that 'exiting administration event' and they escaped the further points deduction that way. I do seem to recall there being a bit of a hiccup when they had to go back to court and a further points deduction was mentioned but I'm not sure how official that all was.

With regard to the UBIG shares, and possibly the UKIO ones. Am I right in thinking that some of these shares will have been acquired in the debt for equity swaps? £20+ million worth?

Another hazy memory is that this was a bit dodgy so perhaps how these came about will be the subject of more legal scrutiny than might otherwise have been in the already #allverycomplicated legal proceedings.

A dodgy UK company, the yams; dodgy Lithuanian companies; dodgy share transfer. Anyone any idea which country any court case would be heard in?

My understanding is that the court case will be heard in Dodge City.

[The_Todd]

Jack, Dunfermline May have been treated under old SFL rules which no longer exist. New SPFL rules indicate the Yams would have to exit admin to escape further penalty.

[Crazyhorse]

Actually, I am thinking that it wouldn't have been administration, it would have been liquidation.

Only they can say why they didn't do it. Perhaps they thought that they would get the full value of their security. In hindsight, that may have been a poor choice.

This is what I don't quite understand. They seemed to have had the time to exercise that hindsight realise that most return will come from a liquidation but chose not to go down that route. Why not?

[Jack]

Jack, Dunfermline May have been treated under old SFL rules which no longer exist. New SPFL rules indicate the Yams would have to exit admin to escape further penalty.

Good good :-)

[GREEN WARLORD]

Jack, Dunfermline May have been treated under old SFL rules which no longer exist. New SPFL rules indicate the Yams would have to exit admin to escape further penalty.

Very pleasing, how will Scotlands best crop of youngster cope with such heart ache? :greengrin

[Just Alf]

Just been looking at how the updated SPFL rules define a "season"


Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;

Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season


the other bit of interest is


Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.

the bit in bold gives me the impression that the Yams have until the start of the new season to get out of Admin :rolleyes:

if you can be bothered, here's the link http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1388495541.pdf

[CropleyWasGod]

This is what I don't quite understand. They seemed to have had the time to exercise that hindsight realise that most return will come from a liquidation but chose not to go down that route. Why not?

A few theories have been floated on here:-

1. they have done their homework, and deduced that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

2. they have not done their homework, and have been "persuaded" that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

3. they have known for some time that liquidation is the most likely route, in which case they might get more; approving the CVA is just a political move to make them look less like the bad boys.

I'm not sure which I believe. I'd like to think that 1 is the most likely, but then I'm not privy to the way these guys think.

[greenginger]

About the subsequent points penalty.

I've just had a look at what happened to Dunfermline. It looks like they took their hit last season which in effect put them down.

In the close season, July, their CVA was agreed and they were on their way out of administration but didn't actually do so until December. There was no points deduction this season.

So. No further forward there then unless an agreed CVA is taken as that 'exiting administration event' and they escaped the further points deduction that way. I do seem to recall there being a bit of a hiccup when they had to go back to court and a further points deduction was mentioned but I'm not sure how official that all was.

With regard to the UBIG shares, and possibly the UKIO ones. Am I right in thinking that some of these shares will have been acquired in the debt for equity swaps? £20+ million worth?

Another hazy memory is that this was a bit dodgy so perhaps how these came about will be the subject of more legal scrutiny than might otherwise have been in the already #allverycomplicated legal proceedings.

A dodgy UK company, the yams; dodgy Lithuanian companies; dodgy share transfer. Anyone any idea which country any court case would be heard in?

All the Ukio/UBIG Yam shares came into existence through debt for equity swaps.

The original shares that Vlad bought from Deans, Pieman and the simple fans were held by a Company called Heart of Midlothian 2005 Ltd.

That Company has been struck-off and those shares have " Fallen to the Crown "

[Gus Fring]

Just been looking at how the updated SPFL rules define a "season"

Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season


the other bit of interest is

Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.

the bit in bold gives me the impression that the Yams have until the start of the new season to get out of Admin :rolleyes:

if you can be bothered, here's the link http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1388495541.pdf

Your impression is correct. A points deduction will only be applicable if they are still in Admin at the start of the 2014/15 season

[EK_Hibs]

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

[Ronniekirk]

Just been looking at how the updated SPFL rules define a "season"

Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season


the other bit of interest is

Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.

the bit in bold gives me the impression that the Yams have until the start of the new season to get out of Admin :rolleyes:

if you can be bothered, here's the link http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1388495541.pdf

Its not going to drag on till then they know the new rules and can't be prepared to take that hit . They have more recently been preparing thier fans that administration could drag into March ,the problem is the fans are so up themselves that they just don't listen.if proposed meetings don't take place in February or do and don't reach quick decision knowing it then still has to go throughout the Lithuanian court process then that would be interesting as no idea how long that would take .

There was some talk of Administrators wanting draft documents and agreements in principle signed off Does any one with experience in this area think they could badger new hierarchy to try and say look we have everything in place,here is the written proof ,but we want to be able to come out of administration before it goes through the court in lithuania.

[greenginger]

Baj, I've been trying to hazard a guess as to how much the BDO " supervision " is costing HOMFC.

Is there any way your source would have a clue as to the figure ?

[The_Todd]

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

It looks very bleak for Hearts, how do you come to this conclusion that they'll come out of this in any decent financial state?

[Hibbibri]

Dunfermline were governed by the old SPL rules that have now been superseded by the new SPFL rules (voted in by ALL the SPFL clubs) that state that if a club is 'still' in admin at the start of a new season (i.e. the first league game ) then a 15 point deduction comes into force no matter what division they are in.
IF a club exits Admin but goes back into Admin within 5 years then a 25 point deduction applies, as told to the the rankgers when they enquired what would happen to them if they went into admin AGAIN !!

[clerriehibs]

It looks very bleak for Hearts, how do you come to this conclusion that they'll come out of this in any decent financial state?

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

[JeMeSouviens]

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

Their balance sheet will certainly look a lot better. Not too sure they're going to find it easy to adjust to spending just what they earn, especially just what they're going to earn in the championship ... or where they're going to find the money to rebuild their crumbling hovel?

[The_Todd]

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

And if my auntie had balls....

[Glesgahibby]

About the subsequent points penalty.

With regard to the UBIG shares, and possibly the UKIO ones. Am I right in thinking that some of these shares will have been acquired in the debt for equity swaps? £20+ million worth?

Another hazy memory is that this was a bit dodgy so perhaps how these came about will be the subject of more legal scrutiny than might otherwise have been in the already #allverycomplicated legal proceedings.

A dodgy UK company, the yams; dodgy Lithuanian companies; dodgy share transfer. Anyone any idea which country any court case would be heard in?
This is exactly what I have been thinking:agree:
shares were being used as a tool to hide the true extent of the debt.
if this mechanism was used throught Vlads empire,then this would result in a no stone unturned,heavy dutie thorough investigation/court case that could last for years and years.
i have a hunch that the admins of UBIG and UKIO know this"hence the lack of urgency" and can just say yes no probs to anything verbally but can't give timescales for written agreements.

[Aldo]

Wonder if this is Bandersons stamp



11837

[clerriehibs]

And if my auntie had balls....

She'd have to have one glass one to say whether or not the cva would be approved.

No one knows; not even your ball-less auntie.

[Spike Mandela]

Their balance sheet will certainly look a lot better. Not too sure they're going to find it easy to adjust to spending just what they earn, especially just what they're going to earn in the championship ... or where they're going to find the money to rebuild their crumbling hovel?

Essentially hearts will be the same as us. Relying on season tickets, matchdays, merchandise and player sales to fund their playing squad, wages, taxes, maintenance etc but wih a low level debt. (Well, initially)

They won't have a new stand but if they get away with around £26m debt frankly they will be thinking so what?

[Twa Cairpets]

Its not going to drag on till then they know the new rules and can't be prepared to take that hit . They have more recently been preparing thier fans that administration could drag into March ,the problem is the fans are so up themselves that they just don't listen.if proposed meetings don't take place in February or do and don't reach quick decision knowing it then still has to go throughout the Lithuanian court process then that would be interesting as no idea how long that would take .

There was some talk of Administrators wanting draft documents and agreements in principle signed off Does any one with experience in this area think they could badger new hierarchy to try and say look we have everything in place,here is the written proof ,but we want to be able to come out of administration before it goes through the court in lithuania.

You're looking at this from a football perspective. The hit is a football hit and they have no choice in the matter if it get to that stage. If they don't get the shares then they don't get out of admin, no matter how much they really, really, really want to, and even then there is no guarantee that it'll be in time for August.

#allisnotbarry
#allisexceedinglybleak
#allispleasingforhibbiedom

[Crazyhorse]

A few theories have been floated on here:-

1. they have done their homework, and deduced that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

2. they have not done their homework, and have been "persuaded" that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

3. they have known for some time that liquidation is the most likely route, in which case they might get more; approving the CVA is just a political move to make them look less like the bad boys.

I'm not sure which I believe. I'd like to think that 1 is the most likely, but then I'm not privy to the way these guys think.

Obviously I prefer 3. Because it has given them hope and then snatched it away. It seems a bit heartless (appropriately enough) perhaps but a longer process is more cruel (i.e more fun for us).

[Spike Mandela]

You're looking at this from a football perspective. The hit is a football hit and they have no choice in the matter if it get to that stage. If they don't get the shares then they don't get out of admin, no matter how much they really, really, really want to, and even then there is no guarantee that it'll be in time for August.

#allisnotbarry
#allisexceedinglybleak
#allispleasingforhibbiedom

I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.

[The_Todd]

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.

[Crazyhorse]

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.

I think what some people are saying is if that's the way it pans out they aren't exactly doing the time for having done the crime. The club effectively robbed a wide range of organisations and individuals including tax payers and charities. Blew the dough and their punishment is relegation and having to learn to live like the other middle income clubs in Scotland. A fair number of merricks will say it was worth it. Personally I was hoping for something worse for them (still am).

[Saorsa]

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.They also have tae rely on the diddies tae keep paying up otherwise a lot of their other income will have tae be used tae pay that back. I wonder if anybody had ever ran a successful business on the basis of voluntary DD's, if no, why no :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

They also have tae rely on the diddies tae keep paying up otherwise a lot of their other income will have tae be used tae pay that back. I wonder if anybody had ever ran a successful business on the basis of voluntary DD's, if no, why no :greengrin

The DD's are an additional income to their season ticket money, matchday income, merchandise and player sales surely.

As far as I am aware we don't get any additional investment from anywhere else or am I missing something?

[EK_Hibs]

What's this 'Stamp' thing all about?
Has Barry Anderson been bumping his gums about a load of rubbish again?

[HibbySpurs]

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

Do clubs that hae suffered an insovency event generally rise like a Phoenix from the flames though?

Ask, Livingston, Dundee, Leeds Utd, Portsmouth and the answer is most likely, no they dont.... Even ask The Rangers how it's going for them.....

Years of financial hardship generally endure as these clubs are forced to live within their means...

Only club that seems to have done reasonably since an administration is Motherwell as far as I can tell.
:cb

[jacomo]

Do clubs that hae suffered an insovency event generally rise like a Phoenix from the flames though?

Ask, Livingston, Dundee, Leeds Utd, Portsmouth and the answer is most likely, no they dont.... Even ask The Rangers how it's going for them.....

Years of financial hardship generally endure as these clubs are forced to live within their means...

Only club that seems to have done reasonably since an administration is Motherwell as far as I can tell.
:cb

Disbelief will be followed by shock as the 'Big Team' fantasies are confronted by 'skint team' reality.

Assuming they do manage to start next season, I do hope Anne Budge gets her way and instals Levein as manager. Here is a man with a wildly inflated view of his own worth - a perfect match. If they get another 15 point deduction they'll do well to avoid a second relegation in two seasons.

[Saorsa]

The DD's are an additional income to their season ticket money, matchday income, merchandise and player sales surely.

As far as I am aware we don't get any additional investment from anywhere else or am I missing something?The DD's are tae pay back the money FOF will be borrowing if they manage tae buy the club. The whole plans is based on those voluntary DD's. When those DD's from the diddes start tae dwindle as they surely will, the money tae pay back the loans from the biddies will need tae come from their other income.

[TrinityHibs]

Anybody any idea what the prize money would be for finishing say 6th in the Championship next year? Also what do you get for being the worst team in the SPFL or whatever its called now?

[Ryan69]

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Twa Cairpets]

I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.

You know what Spike.
That is the happiest, most upbeat post I think you've ever made.
#Spikeisbarry
:wink::greengrin

[Saorsa]

I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.That's quite cheery, are you ok? :greengrin

[The Hibee Harp]

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

They have been given a year's grace each year and told it is the last time for the last 10 14 years. Nothing is going to change this year.

Hibs and Hearts were told to sort out their main stands or they would have to close them in 2000. Only one team did - at great cost.

[Mikey09]

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

Not a problem....... That nugget Cardownie will make sure its signed off...... :wink:

[WindyMiller]

Anybody any idea what the prize money would be for finishing say 6th in the Championship next year? Also what do you get for being the worst team in the SPFL or whatever its called now?


Fill yer boots



.http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/229106-how-much-money-does-your-club-stand-to-make-from-league-reconstruction/

[HFC 0-7]

Essentially hearts will be the same as us. Relying on season tickets, matchdays, merchandise and player sales to fund their playing squad, wages, taxes, maintenance etc but wih a low level debt. (Well, initially)

They won't have a new stand but if they get away with around £26m debt frankly they will be thinking so what?

They will be like us but without the financial backing of Tom Farmer, Farmer hasnt pumped millions into us, but he has (i believe) provided short term loans when cash flow was low. This is the issue, IMO, with fan ownership. Cash flow is probably up and down all the time and although over the course of a year there is enough there will be points where things get tricky if there is no overdraft or owner willing to lend cash for a short period.

[greenginger]

The DD's are tae pay back the money FOF will be borrowing if they manage tae buy the club. The whole plans is based on those voluntary DD's. When those DD's from the diddes start tae dwindle as they surely will, the money tae pay back the loans from the biddies will need tae come from their other income.


I don't think FoH can use Club income to pay off debts for the club purchase. That would be a leveraged purchase which are no longer allowed.

If DDs dry up it has to be cake sales and face painting :greengrin

[The_Todd]

They will be like us but without the financial backing of Tom Farmer, Farmer hasnt pumped millions into us, but he has (i believe) provided short term loans when cash flow was low. This is the issue, IMO, with fan ownership. Cash flow is probably up and down all the time and although over the course of a year there is enough there will be points where things get tricky if there is no overdraft or owner willing to lend cash for a short period.

There's always their sponsors.... WONGA!

[HibsNibs]

They'll be like us except they've had the benefit, in terms of "success" on the pitch and resultant uplift in crowds, that blowing £70m+ of funny money brings. If they only have to spend a season or two in the wilderness to pay for it then that'll be a pretty good result for their shameless (shameful) followers. Of course, no-one else in football recognises their three cup wins in this period as valid.

[Saorsa]

I don't think FoH can use Club income to pay off debts for the club purchase. That would be a leveraged purchase which are no longer allowed.

If DDs dry up it has to be cake sales and face painting :greengrinEven better :thumbsup: that's a lot of cakes tae pay back that kind of money :greengrin and either way if they cannae they'll be in it again :greengrin

[jacomo]

They will be like us but without the financial backing of Tom Farmer, Farmer hasnt pumped millions into us, but he has (i believe) provided short term loans when cash flow was low. This is the issue, IMO, with fan ownership. Cash flow is probably up and down all the time and although over the course of a year there is enough there will be points where things get tricky if there is no overdraft or owner willing to lend cash for a short period.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a wealthy saviour will come out of the woodwork once the messy business of admin is done with.

But having made such a heavy play of the FoH model and there being 'no white knight', it doesn't seem likely.

[Kato]

A few theories have been floated on here:-

1. they have done their homework, and deduced that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

2. they have not done their homework, and have been "persuaded" that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

3. they have known for some time that liquidation is the most likely route, in which case they might get more; approving the CVA is just a political move to make them look less like the bad boys.

I'm not sure which I believe. I'd like to think that 1 is the most likely, but then I'm not privy to the way these guys think.

I think they are pretending to be 2 but are secretly treading water waiting for 3.

[Kato]

What's this 'Stamp' thing all about?
Has Barry Anderson been bumping his gums about a load of rubbish again?

They are signing Phil Stamp on February 1st, BDO reckon it'll add dozens to the crowd.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

IF is big word.

[Waxy]

Stick the lot of them in the liquidiser and press the button.

[EK_Hibs]

IF is big word.

Eh? It's been approved already?

[Aldo]

Eh? It's been approved already?

There are a few issues one major one..... The frozen shares.

[Saorsa]

What's this 'Stamp' thing all about?
Has Barry Anderson been bumping his gums about a load of rubbish again?It's a fairy tale by BAnderson. :agree:



http://i41.tinypic.com/2nov8p.png

[Kato]

Eh? It's been approved already?

It's been approved "conditionally". Which means it's not been approved at all.

[The_Todd]

Eh? It's been approved already?

Approved conditionally, but the CVA counts for nothing unless UBIGs assets are unfrozen anyway. Barry Anderson and co may have you believe all it takes is a rubber stamp, but sadly for them the reality is very different.

[Treadstone]

For anyone taking BAnderson at face value here's a twitter coversation with Green Glory (I think) less than a year ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/302353330175356929?p=v

[The_Todd]

For anyone taking BAnderson at face value here's a twitter coversation with Green Glory (I think) less than a year ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/302353330175356929?p=v

Indeed, I think it was May that Banderson was still telling us everything was still Barry.

[Kato]

It's a fairy tale by BAnderson. :agree:



http://i41.tinypic.com/2nov8p.png

Nah, it's an open letter begging Vlad to come back and sort the mess out, only no one has a stamp.











.....or an address, or any contact, or any clue where the money went, or any sense.

[jacomo]

For anyone taking BAnderson at face value here's a twitter coversation with Green Glory (I think) less than a year ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/302353330175356929?p=v

Belter. How has Banderson not won a Pulitzer yet? He is simply an outstanding, fearless journalist.

'UBIG troubles barely affect Hearts'

'Plenty of research and nothing to suggest impending trouble'

:rolleyes:

[Green Reaper]

[/attach]11839


[attach=config]11838


:thumbsup:

[Mikey]

"Plenty of research". That's a hoot. His research went no further than calling up the Bare Faced Liar and asking him if there was anything up.

[VivaHiberña]

My flatmate and I were discussing this earlier and despite having paid close attention to this thread, could someone answer me a pretty simple question please?

As I understand it, the planned debt repayments for the Yams (assuming the CVA is approved and the shares are magically defrosted) would currently be:



£2.5m to Ukio Bankas as part of CVA
£50k to UBIG for the shares
About £60k in football debts (Ayr, Liverpool, Livingstone, Mussellburgh and The Rangers)




And what I'm not sure about (taxes):

City of Edinburgh Council: £90,715
City of Edinburgh Council (for flats): £2,631
HMRC: £1,881,068


​
Regarding the creditors in italics, ie. the tax authorities, do they get what they're owed? Have I understood the rest correctly?

[Tynie01011973]

It's been approved "conditionally". Which means it's not been approved at all.

Exactly !

When they had the Creditors meeting, UBIG Admin was going to vote 'NO', but BDO had to beg them not to, as that would be it there and then.

So they chose to 'ABSTAIN', citing that they could not give their approval without first consulting their own Creditors - that is the meeting that is talked about possibly being held end of next month.

#AllisBarry is jumping the gun saying it's a formality.

Even if UBIG's creditors don't object to the sale of the 50% shares - there is still the matter of the Lith Government's investigation, which got the Court to freeze them in the first place, being agreeable to it.

Not out of the woods by a long shot

:greengrin

[Onion]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a wealthy saviour will come out of the woodwork once the messy business of admin is done with.

But having made such a heavy play of the FoH model and there being 'no white knight', it doesn't seem likely.

Only because that was the only route left for them. No right minded investor was ever going to touch the Yams while they were in Admin or sitting on £MMMM of debt.

Once out of Admin and stark reality of having to live within their means hits home, these charity thieves will grab the first lump of money waved under their noses. The FOH model will be ditched as they chase their world cup stars and Champ League fantasies.

[KeithTheHibby]

My flatmate and I were discussing this earlier and despite having paid close attention to this thread, could someone answer me a pretty simple question?

As I understand it, the planned debt repayments for the Yams (assuming the CVA is approved and the shares are magically defrosted) would currently be:



£2.5m to Ukio Bankas as part of CVA
£50k to UBIG for the shares
About £60k in football debts (Ayr, Liverpool, Livingstone, Mussellburgh and The Rangers)




And what I'm not sure about (taxes):

City of Edinburgh Council: £90,715
City of Edinburgh Council (for flats): £2,631
HMRC: £1,881,068


​
Regarding the creditors in italics, ie. the tax authorities, do they get what they're owed? Have I understood the rest correctly?


The creditors in italics will get not a penny regardless of a CVA being agreed.

[The_Todd]

"Plenty of research". That's a hoot. His research went no further than calling up the Bare Faced Liar and asking him if there was anything up.

Just imagine if Banderson was covering the Phone Hacking scandal.

"So, ehh, Rupert, is there anything in this voicemail thingy?"
"No."

"PHONE HACKING: ALL IS BARRY. NEWS OF THE WORLD IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM"

[Bristolhibby]

My flatmate and I were discussing this earlier and despite having paid close attention to this thread, could someone answer me a pretty simple question?

As I understand it, the planned debt repayments for the Yams (assuming the CVA is approved and the shares are magically defrosted) would currently be:



£2.5m to Ukio Bankas as part of CVA
£50k to UBIG for the shares
About £60k in football debts (Ayr, Liverpool, Livingstone, Mussellburgh and The Rangers)




And what I'm not sure about (taxes):

City of Edinburgh Council: £90,715
City of Edinburgh Council (for flats): £2,631
HMRC: £1,881,068


​
Regarding the creditors in italics, ie. the tax authorities, do they get what they're owed? Have I understood the rest correctly?

Don't quote me, but those last ones are settled in some pence in the pound type deal are that not? So instead of £90k to Edinburgh CC read £6k, etc.

J

[Kato]

Don't quote me, but those last ones are settled in some pence in the pound type deal are that not? So instead of £90k to Edinburgh CC read £6k, etc.

J


Only once the secured creditors are paid, which means the others will get approximately nixie-pie.

[Kaiser1962]

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

If they do survive, and its still an if, I suspect they will be back in administration in around 4-5 seasons. As in their full fat cousins old habits die hard.

As for the CVA they still need a number of decisions to fall their way. All we need is one of that number not to.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Eh? It's been approved already?

I don't think so mate.

[Kaiser1962]

"Plenty of research". That's a hoot. His research went no further than calling up the Bare Faced Liar and asking him if there was anything up.

Classic!

Even better

"Tks for telling me how to do my job"

Throbber.

[EK_Hibs]

Has the CVA cooling off period not been & gone though?

[Saorsa]

"Plenty of research". That's a hoot. His research went no further than calling up the Bare Faced Liar and asking him if there was anything up.:agree:

:singing: He prints what he's told
He prints what he's told
Allisbarry
He prints what he's told

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't quote me, but those last ones are settled in some pence in the pound type deal are that not? So instead of £90k to Edinburgh CC read £6k, etc.

J
They get nothing.

[CropleyWasGod]

My flatmate and I were discussing this earlier and despite having paid close attention to this thread, could someone answer me a pretty simple question please?

As I understand it, the planned debt repayments for the Yams (assuming the CVA is approved and the shares are magically defrosted) would currently be:



£2.5m to Ukio Bankas as part of CVA
£50k to UBIG for the shares
About £60k in football debts (Ayr, Liverpool, Livingstone, Mussellburgh and The Rangers)




And what I'm not sure about (taxes):

City of Edinburgh Council: £90,715
City of Edinburgh Council (for flats): £2,631
HMRC: £1,881,068


​
Regarding the creditors in italics, ie. the tax authorities, do they get what they're owed? Have I understood the rest correctly?

The football debt is approximately £535k

[CropleyWasGod]

Has the CVA cooling off period not been & gone though?

It hasn't started as it hasn't been formally approved.

[EK_Hibs]

It hasn't started as it hasn't been formally approved.

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.

So you are saying that the CVA has been approved?

[VivaHiberña]

Thanks everyone for clearing that one up, I'd be lost without .net :hibees




The football debt is approximately £535k

That's a good deal more than I thought (based on this thread (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?276764-yams-creditors&p=3856987&viewfull=1#post3856987)). Where did you get that figure, CWG? Ta.

[Tynie01011973]

Anyone heard any names yet of who the 'Edinburgh business backers' that were in Bidco - apart from Ann Budge ?

:confused:

[The_Todd]

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.

If the CVA had been approved we'd know about it, they'd be shouting from the rooftops. Nobody at Hearts or BDO has been saying the CVA has been approved other than conditionally.

[Virginia Hibs]

Page 1875 according to my phone! :) pleasing thread!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks everyone for clearing that one up, I'd be lost without .net :hibees





That's a good deal more than I thought (based on this thread (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?276764-yams-creditors&p=3856987&viewfull=1#post3856987)). Where did you get that figure, CWG? Ta.

It is in BDOs last report. Don't have that to hand, but it's explicitly listed.

[EK_Hibs]

So you are saying that the CVA has been approved?

Not set in stone as yet, no... But you seemed to be suggesting there's going to be another 30 days 'cooling off period' when/IF UBIG confirm they're onside? I don't believe that's the case at all.
I'd have thought if the UBIG liquidator was going to throw a spanner in the yams 'provisional CVA' works then he'd have done it within the 30 day period following the 30th of November or whenever it was.

[jacomo]

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.

With all due respect, this is getting quite exhausting. A quick search of relevant news sites will bring you up to date with the basic facts that are in the public domain - even the Scotsman/EEN more or less gets those right.

[Kato]

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.

Show evidence that Bryan Jackson has ever said the cooling off period has begun.

[Kato]

A cracker, him and the tweet.


Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 18 Oct 2012

Following last tweet, #HMFC doing their best being self-sufficient but wage delays unavoidable with no UBIG funds. See today's paper. #SPL

[Kato]

Not set in stone as yet, no... But you seemed to be suggesting there's going to be another 30 days 'cooling off period' when/IF UBIG confirm they're onside? I don't believe that's the case at all.
I'd have thought if the UBIG liquidator was going to throw a spanner in the yams 'provisional CVA' works then he'd have done it within the 30 day period following the 30th of November or whenever it was.

You're seem to be grasping while not grasping the situation.

[EK_Hibs]

You're seem to be grasping while grasping the situation.

Eh?

[jacomo]

Show evidence that Bryan Jackson has ever said the cooling off period has begun.

:jamboid:

:dunno:

:wink:

[Kato]

Eh?

sorry bud, edited

[EK_Hibs]

Show evidence that Bryan Jackson has ever said the cooling off period has begun.

Can't be bothered searching Google for a yam purpose.
My knowledge of this comes from when I heard Bryan Jackson say (whilst being interviewed on sportsound) that he didn't expect any objections from creditors during the 30 day cooling off period following the 29th of November.

[EK_Hibs]

Show evidence that Bryan Jackson has ever said the cooling off period has begun.

Aye I was right.... I knew I heard him say it on Sportsound.
During the 1st minute of this clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/25159932

[weecounty hibby]

You know what Spike.
That is the happiest, most upbeat post I think you've ever made.
#Spikeisbarry
:wink::greengrin

Thats as good as it gets!! Having known Spike for about 27 years and stood and sat beside him at ER and many other places he really is a pessimistic, wet blanket, glass half empty kind of guy. And if your glass is half empty he is most certainly not the type to fill it up !!! He does hate the Merricks though

[inglisavhibs]

Has the CVA cooling off period not been & gone though?

That's what you would like to have happened.:wink:

[steviehibsleith]

Just read EEN and that incompetent minge Barry stating 18 yo Sam Nicholson even though Brokeback Last week had a happy 19th birthday thread for him . Deliberately misleading the readers or just a pathetic journalist.... ..Both I'd say

[greenginger]

I don't think that's true. Unless Bryan Jackson & co have been telling porky pies to the media.


What there has been was a 30 day period , after the vote on the 29th of November to appeal any irregularities in the vote.

I thought HMRC would have raised an objection . Unfortunately they did'nt.

[Spike Mandela]

You know what Spike.
That is the happiest, most upbeat post I think you've ever made.
#Spikeisbarry
:wink::greengrin


That's quite cheery, are you ok? :greengrin

Been feeling strange all day. If we sign a decent player now I might just have a happyclap!:greengrin

Nah, probably not.:wink:

[Jonnyboy]

Classic!

Even better

"Tks for telling me how to do my job"

Throbber.

He sure needed somebody to tell him :greengrin

[EK_Hibs]

What there has been was a 30 day period , after the vote on the 29th of November to appeal any irregularities in the vote.

I thought HMRC would have raised an objection . Unfortunately they did'nt.

They already objected so would have been pointless...like the yams :)

[Crazyhorse]

It's a fairy tale by BAnderson. :agree:



http://i41.tinypic.com/2nov8p.png


Very good!

[greenginger]

They already objected so would have been pointless...like the yams :)

No, they voted against the CVA but their vote was outvoted by the Ukio Bankas vote.

There had to be a second assessment of the vote in terms of non-connected parties voting. HMRC were by far the largest non-connected party, but Jackson allowed Ukio Bankas to be considered non-connected as well, as in his opinion Ukio being in administration " changed their status "

I thought HMRC might have objected to that sleight of hand, but as there would be nowt in the pot for the taxman either way he let it go.

[brog]

Good to see Golden Shower Gazza has come out with his regular "we're not making excuses, but" statement. This time of course its about the refs & how poor Yams always get the rough end of the deal. Now there's no doubt that Saints 1st pen on Saturday was a shocking decision but no worse than the ref's decision to send Anderson off, a decision now rescinded! Gazza seems to have missed the fact that Saints ( wrongly ) played for over 3/4 of the game with a man less than Yams. Strangely, he may not have realised it, as it's a while back, but on the last 3 occasions when Yams actually got more than zero points in a game, they were playing against 10 men or less. Yes, those pesky refs sure have it in for Yams, especially when Leigh G is taking a free kick!!
The team with no shame!

[lapsedhibee]

The team with no shame!

:hmmm: Think to feel shame requires that you have some appreciation, understanding or at the very least awareness of the world around you. You can't feel shame if you live in a completely enclosed bubble where even the laws of mathematics, economics, etc, don't apply.

[Ronniekirk]

:hmmm: Think to feel shame requires that you have some appreciation, understanding or at the very least awareness of the world around you. You can't feel shame if you live in a completely enclosed bubble where even the laws of mathematics, economics, etc, don't apply.
But the fun with bubbles is watching them burst:rolleyes:

[jgl07]

Not set in stone as yet, no... But you seemed to be suggesting there's going to be another 30 days 'cooling off period' when/IF UBIG confirm they're onside? I don't believe that's the case at all.
I'd have thought if the UBIG liquidator was going to throw a spanner in the yams 'provisional CVA' works then he'd have done it within the 30 day period following the 30th of November or whenever it was.
The whole thing is irrelevant until BDO get their hands on the frozen shares.

They can blether all they want but there will be no CVA until that happens.

[jacomo]

Once upon a time, in the days when your great-grandparents were little girls and boys, there lived a Tynie football club, in a rank part of town, next to a steaming factory where the smell gave you the dry boak. Now this club were old and at one time, had enjoyed the respect of the other clubs in the land. They won and lost like any other club, and they did it with a good spirit and integrity. One day though, the wind changed, and they became discontent, as people who have good and happy lives are often wont to do, for it is a curse of humans that we become restless when we actually have everything we need and we grow dissatisfied with our lot, want what we don`t have and need to satisfy the lust for power in the dark recesses of our minds where Greed and Envy roam free. And thus it was that they set their sights upon their neighbours and the towns beyond that, and they vowed they would dominate them all, no matter what the price...

Fuelled by the over-reaching ambition of their increasingly bitter fans, they began to abandon the principles which had once preserved their honour and dignity and slowly but surely, they began paying for goods and merchandise for which they did not have the money. Now boys and girls, every fairy tale needs a villain, and you`re in luck, for this tale had not one, but TWO villains; power-hungry, ruthless and deluded. The first was the kind of villain who made no pretense as to who he was or what he wanted. He was predictable and tried to take over the neighbouring village I told you about at the start, but so overconfident and arrogant was he, that in revealing his plan, he awoke the spirit within the residents of that village, and their combined resistance, allied with a fairy godfather, finally defeated him. That village went on to become one of the fairest in the land, where many different people lived and all were welcomed regardless of origin or beliefs. They flourish today and will do so for generations to come, when even your great-grand children are running around. But that tale is for another time...

The second was what the elves in the forest refer to as a "Roaster"; as mad as an enchanted bucket, as changeable as a harlot`s knickers, as foolish as a billy goat and as unpredictable as a clown`s tears. Posing as a Knight of Old, he used deceipt and shameful lies to steal from millions of people from other towns far away and he wasted the money to pay travellers and journeymen and peados from far away to come and live in the village. For a while, life was good. The townspeople had never known such luxury and good fortune and they rubbed it in the faces of their neighbours at every opportunity. But alas, it is the oldest tale in the world that when you do a deal with the devil, the day always arrives when he comes to collect his fee. And thus the money dried up and the Roaster fled, as did the charlatans and showmen, for they were only interested in the Roaster`s money. The key to that money lay in a hostile land far to the North, where many believed it to have frozen forever. As for the Roaster, some say he sails the world in a large ship beneath the waves to this day, others, that he changed his face by magic and that nobody can reveal him unless they utter his true name aloud three times: "MISTER, MISTER, MISTER".

For a while, the townspeople wouldn`t believe it, but as they watched their walls slowly crumble around them and other villages refused to deal with them, even when they begged, nobody would Budge; they became even more bitter and twisted and, true to their perverse nature, blamed everyone but themselves for their slow, painful, hilarious demise. Thus, they were revealed to be fuds of the highest order and absolutely nobody gave a flying f*** about them, for truly they had got what they deserved.

THE END (almost...not long now anyhow)

This is indeed the story, but not as Banderson would write it!

[portycabbage]

Just been looking at how the updated SPFL rules define a "season"
Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season


the other bit of interest is
Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.

the bit in bold gives me the impression that the Yams have until the start of the new season to get out of Admin :rolleyes:

if you can be bothered, here's the link http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1388495541.pdf


Your impression is correct. A points deduction will only be applicable if they are still in Admin at the start of the 2014/15 season

Although the SPFL rulebook definition of a "Season" excludes the "Close Season", the bit in the rules immediately before the 2nd quote says:

Where an Insolvency Event occurs during the Close Season the 15 points deduction
shall apply in respect of the immediately following Season, such that the relevant
Club starts that immediately following Season in the relevant Division on minus 15
points.
http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1388495541.pdf

Taken with the definition of a "Season" as ending after the date of the last league game, this suggests the close season is considered part of the following season for the purposes of insolvency. IMO the grey area is whether there is a meaningful difference between insolvency "occurring" and "subsisting or continuing". I suppose another one is whether the SPFL can apply the rules!

[Inch Hibs]

How come Dunfermline weren't deducted further points this season as they where still in administration?

[The_Todd]

How come Dunfermline weren't deducted further points this season as they where still in administration?

Old rules.

[Inch Hibs]

Old rules.

Why was it old rules when the new league body came into place before the start of the season? If it's old rules and hearts will get points deducted I'll be delighted by the way but I don't actually know the ins and outs so I'm just asking.

[The_Todd]

Why was it old rules when the new league body came into place before the start of the season? If it's old rules and hearts will get points deducted I'll be delighted by the way but I don't actually know the ins and outs so I'm just asking.

Maybe because their insolvency event occurred under old rules? Couldn't say.

[Gus Fring]

Maybe because their insolvency event occurred under old rules? Couldn't say.

:agree:

[Inch Hibs]

Maybe because their insolvency event occurred under old rules? Couldn't say.

Ok fair dos thanks an maybe. I'm sure there's an explanation as to why they weren't deducted points somewhere. Or maybe it was because they were in admin before the new rules came into place.

[Spike Mandela]

Thats as good as it gets!! Having known Spike for about 27 years and stood and sat beside him at ER and many other places he really is a pessimistic, wet blanket, glass half empty kind of guy. And if your glass is half empty he is most certainly not the type to fill it up !!! He does hate the Merricks though

Missed this post. It's your round ya cheeky *******!:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Only once the secured creditors are paid, which means the others will get approximately nixie-pie.

Nixie pie?

I always thought it was nixie kye.....although I have no idea what that would actually mean.

Google sheds no light on this important matter apart from to suggest nixie is American slang derived from a mis addressed postal item.

[monktonharp]

Hopefully they will get a couple of players sent off for violent conduct in the rearranged St Mirren game. Which would be nice.Goodwin may have a major part to play, in that scenario:wink:

[Tynie01011973]

Just read EEN and that incompetent minge Barry stating 18 yo Sam Nicholson even though Brokeback Last week had a happy 19th birthday thread for him . Deliberately misleading the readers or just a pathetic journalist.... ..Both I'd say

You expect better from #AllisBarry ?

[147lothian]

Whenever you read the EEN it's the same old story of having to play youngsters, blah blah good news about FOH blah blah blah, hope to get the ban lifted, blah blah blah, nothing about the hard working small businesses not getting paid, or how they brought the game into disrupute by spending money they don't have, it does annoy me when what gets published isn't news its propaganda

[brog]

Goodwin may have a major part to play, in that scenario:wink:

I think St M have been very smart in agreeing to this game. They're playing an already relegated team a few days before their ( yams ) most important game of the season. Gives Saints the opportunity for a possible advantage over their play-off rivals. You know what, it wouldn't surprise me if Yams were to play a number of young players in that game just to save their em ( inhumanely treated ) young players for the semi. Come on Yogi & Russell!!

[sadtom]

But the fun with bubbles is watching them burst:rolleyes:

Michael Jackson must have been a right, sick, pervy bassa! :shocked::shocked:

[Ronniekirk]

Michael Jackson must have been a right, sick, pervy bassa! :shocked::shocked:
That's enough monkey business ., but did hear his favourite song was that west ham favourite I'm forever blowing bubbles

[poolman]

WE'RE DOOMED AH TELL YE, DOOMED



kingantti1874



Legend






Donator



Posted Yesterday, 20:18

I accept them clinging onto the hope that Hearts will fail, however misguided.. But the post administration finances are clear

Hibs = income - "mortgage/debt" repayment - interest

Hearts = bigger income - oops no debt repayments + tax free fan subsidies

Result = Hearts far wealthier than hibs (and every other non old firm club)


We might as well throw in the towel now

[The_Todd]

WE'RE DOOMED AH TELL YE, DOOMED



kingantti1874



Legend






Donator



Posted Yesterday, 20:18

I accept them clinging onto the hope that Hearts will fail, however misguided.. But the post administration finances are clear

Hibs = income - "mortgage/debt" repayment - interest

Hearts = bigger income - oops no debt repayments + tax free fan subsidies

Result = Hearts far wealthier than hibs (and every other non old firm club)


We might as well throw in the towel now

:hilarious

They need something to cling on to.

[Inch Hibs]

Do they tramps who claim they will come out of this "bigger and better than ever" not realize there will be no more over-spending which made them "better" than the rest previously? :rolleyes:

When they do return they are in for a big, big shock. :agree:

[Inch Hibs]

:hilarious

They need something to cling on to.


They aren't clinging on to this though. They actually believe this :greengrin

You have to remember they are the same back-tracking flumps who stated they:

Had no debt;
Owed it to themselves;
Would never go into Administration;
Would never get relegated;
Would catch Hibs by October.

Now it's:

No debt when they come through this;
Come back bigger and stronger;
Relegation doesn't hurt - it was expected (lies see above) from the day they entered admin (that they said would never happen);
Them going down will hurt us more;
Them going down will hurt the Premiership big time because of there (shan) away support;
There's an SFA conspiracy to relegate them to be in the same league as rangers;
They don't want to be in the top league anyway - more exciting in the Championship;

A greater bunch of deluded trumpets you will fail to find. :agree:

[Saorsa]

kingantti1874



Bellend






Masturbator



Posted Yesterday, 20:18

I accept them clinging onto the hope that Hearts will fail, however misguided.. But the post administration finances are clear

Hibs = income - "mortgage/debt" repayment - interest

Hearts = bigger income - oops no debt repayments + tax free fan subsidies

Result = Hearts far wealthier than hibs (and every other non old firm club) :faf: :faf:

I hope the people lending FOF all that money realise they're no getting their money back. :agree: What a fud :hahaha::jamboclow

[JeMeSouviens]

They aren't clinging on to this though. They actually believe this :greengrin

You have to remember they are the same back-tracking flumps who stated they:

Had no debt;
Owed it to themselves;
Would never go into Administration;
Would never get relegated;
Would catch Hibs by October.

Now it's:

No debt when they come through this;
Come back bigger and stronger;
Relegation doesn't hurt - it was expected (lies see above) from the day they entered admin (that they said would never happen);
Them going down will hurt us more;
Them going down will hurt the Premiership big time because of there (shan) away support;
There's an SFA conspiracy to relegate them to be in the same league as rangers;
They don't want to be in the top league anyway - more exciting in the Championship;

A greater bunch of deluded trumpets you will fail to find. :agree:

To be fair, it's all pretty much the same set of delusions as per the Huns (Old and New). Who is the "greater bunch"? They may edge the Huns in term of amount of delusion given their insignificance but the Huns dwarf them in overall delusional quantity. Tough call. :wink:

[Inch Hibs]

To be fair, it's all pretty much the same set of delusions as per the Huns (Old and New). Who is the "greater bunch"? They may edge the Huns in term of amount of delusion given their insignificance but the Huns dwarf them in overall delusional quantity. Tough call. :wink:


Admin is really hitting them - cannae even win that :greengrin

Rangers to be fair will eventually come back strong. They plebs won't. They won't be able to comprehend not spending money they can't afford. They seem to think the likes of Flood, McGinn, McKay, Rooney etc would love to play for "the famous" when they are back on track. No, they loved the cash the club used to spend, not pulling on a maroon top in a crumbling ****hole.

[BH Hibs]

:faf: :faf:

I hope the people lending FOF all that money realise they're no getting their money back. :agree: What a fud :hahaha::jamboclow

Well they do have previous

[Saorsa]

Well they do have previousTrue, good point.

[kaimendhibs]

:hilarious

They need something to cling on to.

They are cling ons


Sent from my iphone

[Deansy]

Do they tramps who claim they will come out of this "bigger and better than ever" not realize there will be no more over-spending which made them "better" than the rest previously? :rolleyes:

When they do return they are in for a big, big shock. :agree:


No - it seems there's a mass-belief that the last 30+ years of 'Finance Football' has ALWAYS been the level of their club. There's a complete unwillingness on their part to look at their club's history BEFORE Mercer started them off on their 'Fantasy-Ride' - it's almost as if they've NEVER been s***e at any time - which if they had the guts/brains to look seriously, they would realise that s***e IS their level !!

[BH Hibs]

No - it seems there's a mass-belief that the last 30+ years of 'Finance Football' has ALWAYS been the level of their club. There's a complete unwillingness on their part to look at their club's history BEFORE Mercer started them off on their 'Fantasy-Ride' - it's almost as if they've NEVER been s***e at any time - which if they had the guts/brains to look seriously, they would realise that s***e IS their level !!

Yup think that sums it up perfectly :thumbsup:

[Inch Hibs]

No - it seems there's a mass-belief that the last 30+ years of 'Finance Football' has ALWAYS been the level of their club. There's a complete unwillingness on their part to look at their club's history BEFORE Mercer started them off on their 'Fantasy-Ride' - it's almost as if they've NEVER been s***e at any time - which if they had the guts/brains to look seriously, they would realise that s***e IS their level !!


Spot on lad :agree:

[StevieC]

Hearts = bigger income - oops no debt repayments + tax free fan subsidies

Result = Hearts far wealthier than hibs (and every other non old firm club)

Apart from the fact that the "fan subsidies" will be used to pay the CVA debt .. they also have a crumbling main stand that will need to be replaced sometime soon. The fact that it's their "main stand" (and as such will need properly fitted out to be "fit for purpose") is going to have a pretty major impact on their "no debt repayments" fantasy.
I can only hazard a gues at the cost of a new main stand (depending on how many corners they cut) but it's surely got to be in the region of £6m-£8m?? Couple that with their higher "rental" costs for their training facilities, then I really can't see them ever being "far wealthier"? At least not in my lifetime.

[The_Todd]

Apart from the fact that the "fan subsidies" will be used to pay the CVA debt .. they also have a crumbling main stand that will need to be replaced sometime soon. The fact that it's their "main stand" (and as such will need properly fitted out to be "fit for purpose") is going to have a pretty major impact on their "no debt repayments" fantasy.
I can only hazard a gues at the cost of a new main stand (depending on how many corners they cut) but it's surely got to be in the region of £6m-£8m?? Couple that with their higher "rental" costs for their training facilities, then I really can't see them ever being "far wealthier"? At least not in my lifetime.

How would they fund a new stand? I cannot see them being able to obtain any credit.

[steviehibsleith]

Apart from the fact that the "fan subsidies" will be used to pay the CVA debt .. they also have a crumbling main stand that will need to be replaced sometime soon. The fact that it's their "main stand" (and as such will need properly fitted out to be "fit for purpose") is going to have a pretty major impact on their "no debt repayments" fantasy.
I can only hazard a gues at the cost of a new main stand (depending on how many corners they cut) but it's surely got to be in the region of £6m-£8m?? Couple that with their higher "rental" costs for their training facilities, then I really can't see them ever being "far wealthier"? At least not in my lifetime.

I thought they had negotiated a reduced rate with HWU. Think at the time was being quoted at £6000 a week was the origanal fee, I was interested if anyone knew the new rate.

[Gus Fring]

Apart from the fact that the "fan subsidies" will be used to pay the CVA debt .. they also have a crumbling main stand that will need to be replaced sometime soon. The fact that it's their "main stand" (and as such will need properly fitted out to be "fit for purpose") is going to have a pretty major impact on their "no debt repayments" fantasy.
I can only hazard a gues at the cost of a new main stand (depending on how many corners they cut) but it's surely got to be in the region of £6m-£8m?? Couple that with their higher "rental" costs for their training facilities, then I really can't see them ever being "far wealthier"? At least not in my lifetime.

It's possible that if the main stand was eventually declared unsafe that it would just be demolished. They don't need 4 stands.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's possible that if the main stand was eventually declared unsafe that it would just be demolished. They don't need 4 stands.

Could be good news for anyone looking to rent parking spaces for free, in the local area.

[StevieC]

I thought they had negotiated a reduced rate with HWU. Think at the time was being quoted at £6000 a week was the origanal fee, I was interested if anyone knew the new rate.

My understanding was that the reduced rate was short term, possibly just during the administration period (although I could be mistaken). If HWU is to be upgraded to a "sporting centre of excellence" then the rental could possibly end up more than the original agreement.


It's possible that if the main stand was eventually declared unsafe that it would just be demolished. They don't need 4 stands.

No .. but they do NEED somewhere to get changed. :greengrin

[Gus Fring]

My understanding was that the reduced rate was short term, possibly just during the administration period (although I could be mistaken). If HWU is to be upgraded to a "sporting centre of excellence" then the rental could possibly end up more than the original agreement.



No .. but they do NEED somewhere to get changed. :greengrin

The new "Home Portakabin" will take care of that.

[poolman]

The new "Home Portakabin" will take care of that.


Just saw this in Mcleod Street




http://i44.tinypic.com/9r6p2g.png

[Skol]

It's possible that if the main stand was eventually declared unsafe that it would just be demolished. They don't need 4 stands.

Unless the buffoons have some kind of a preservation order on it to stop a developer from buying the place :-)

[Eyrie]

The reality for the Yams is that they will be relegated and unable to find their way back up in one season due to the presence of Sevco Huns. The lack of success will see their fans tire of a "great adventure" resulting in both DDs and season tickets not being renewed. And that will put further downward pressure on their finances, creating a virtuous circle.

Add in that the asbestos deathtrap needs replaced, most of the remaining Save Hearts In Trouble DDs are committed to repaying the mega-wealthy Budge and the outstanding football debts have to be repaid. The future for the Yams is clear - they are the next Dundee, a once famous club doomed to drift between the divisions for years to come.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a club committee (bowling, miners etc) will know just how much fun is in store if/when Save Hearts In Trouble take over. Friction between those on the committee and constant sniping and unrealistic expectations from those unwilling to actually join the committee.

[scoopyboy]

The reality for the Yams is that they will be relegated and unable to find their way back up in one season due to the presence of Sevco Huns. The lack of success will see their fans tire of a "great adventure" resulting in both DDs and season tickets not being renewed. And that will put further downward pressure on their finances, creating a virtuous circle.

Add in that the asbestos deathtrap needs replaced, most of the remaining Save Hearts In Trouble DDs are committed to repaying the mega-wealthy Budge and the outstanding football debts have to be repaid. The future for the Yams is clear - they are the next Dundee, a once famous club doomed to drift between the divisions for years to come.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a club committee (bowling, miners etc) will know just how much fun is in store if/when Save Hearts In Trouble take over. Friction between those on the committee and constant sniping and unrealistic expectations from those unwilling to actually join the committee.

There are the play offs which gives them a fighting chance.

[The_Todd]

We don't know how long their admin will drag on for. Until they exit it any talk of even challenging for the playoffs is premature.

[Eyrie]

There are the play offs which gives them a fighting chance.

The playoffs have been designed to keep the SPL club up by making the First Division (can't take the name "Championship" seriously) clubs play extra fixtures. And there will be plenty of other teams eyeing up those three play off berths who will be every bit as strong as next year's Yams team. I'll agree they have a chance, but it's a very slim one.

[scoopyboy]

The playoffs have been designed to keep the SPL club up by making the First Division (can't take the name "Championship" seriously) clubs play extra fixtures. And there will be plenty of other teams eyeing up those three play off berths who will be every bit as strong as next year's Yams team. I'll agree they have a chance, but it's a very slim one.

I'm not disagreeing Eyrie, merely pointing out that the presence of Rangers does not stop them getting promoted.

Without plays offs being introduced I would have said they had no chance whatsoever.

[Dashing Bob S]

The reality for the Yams is that they will be relegated and unable to find their way back up in one season due to the presence of Sevco Huns. The lack of success will see their fans tire of a "great adventure" resulting in both DDs and season tickets not being renewed. And that will put further downward pressure on their finances, creating a virtuous circle.

Add in that the asbestos deathtrap needs replaced, most of the remaining Save Hearts In Trouble DDs are committed to repaying the mega-wealthy Budge and the outstanding football debts have to be repaid. The future for the Yams is clear - they are the next Dundee, a once famous club doomed to drift between the divisions for years to come.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a club committee (bowling, miners etc) will know just how much fun is in store if/when Save Hearts In Trouble take over. Friction between those on the committee and constant sniping and unrealistic expectations from those unwilling to actually join the committee.

And this is the very best case scenario.

I don't think it'll come to that. I'm predicting liquidation.