Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Ray_]

They'd have been as well, given the collective fitba talent.

I have a vague memory of Ernie Winchester running into a goalpost in one game. I have no vague memories of Eric Carruthers at all.

He was one of those Scottish football's highly rated youngster enigma's at the same time as John hazel, also highly rated in the media. I'm sure both those highly rated youngsters scored in the 1971 Scottish Cup derby at Tynie. Kevin Hegarty took his place in their team along side Donald Ford.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It will indeed be interesting and they'll be there for all to see in good time.

If only they had taken such interest in their own accounts ... as and when they were published.

Being lectured about accounts by them is like Myra Hindley questioning your parental skills.

[greenginger]

I was on nodding terms with Carruthers when he played for them, pure blonde hair and a good looking guy, he used to frequent a club up Shandwick Place called Romanos, I met him through Peter Marinello, was pretty pish player though.


Romanos, now there is a name from the past.

Just about the only place in town in the 60's where you could get a drink, have a dance and pull a bird.

Well 2 out of 3 wasn't too bad.

[Kaiser1962]

Middle of the week and still no timetable for the completion of this confounded CVA. What the hell is going on here? Too bloody complex for my liking!

This will be the same CVA that was agreed "in principle" on 29th November 2013 and won't be discussed at the UKIO meeting on 16th March 2014? The Yams may well be correct when they say that the "frozen shares" will not be a problem. They wont last long enough for them to be one.

Pleasing.....

[Brunswickbill]

Never heard of him. :greengrin

Carruthers, Winchester and Gibson? Doubt they ever played together, but they should have.....

Makes me think of former and current yam players who would fit in with the cheating bunch ....ALFIE CONN; DONALD cannae aFORD him anymore; John ROBBERtson; Callum Tapping the yams for more money; Passing the McHattie around; Hiding his head in the Sandy Jardine. There must be enough to make a full team

[Phil D. Rolls]

Makes me think of former and current yam players who would fit in with the cheating bunch ....ALFIE CONN; DONALD cannae aFORD him anymore; John ROBBERtson; Callum Tapping the yams for more money; Passing the McHattie around; Hiding his head in the Sandy Jardine. There must be enough to make a full team

Jim Crookshank?

[Dashing Bob S]

This will be the same CVA that was agreed "in principle" on 29th November 2013 and won't be discussed at the UKIO meeting on 16th March 2014? The Yams may well be correct when they say that the "frozen shares" will not be a problem. They wont last long enough for them to be one.

Pleasing.....

Yep. Three and a half months later and nothing whatsoever seems to have happened to complete the CVA, which all the Budge/ FOH stuff is based on. BDO have reported absolutely no substantive progress, let alone produced a timetable indicating when Hearts will come out of administration. All they've done is offer vague whispers about trying to expedite this before the money runs out.

If I was a Jambo I'd be asking hard questions of them and FOH. It's getting to the point where the future of their club really could depend on it.

[Jack Hackett]

Nearly half way into March now. Those Ticks and Tocks are fairly chasing each other round the clock

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nearly half way into March now. Those Ticks and Tocks are fairly chasing each other round the clock

That ticking and tocking must be making their sleepless nights even more miserable.

[KdyHby]

From MurrayfieldHibs, who cannot load the image:

Something funny going on with the BBC website for league 1 this evening - or is it a sign of things to come.....

[FranckSuzy]

From MurrayfieldHibs, who cannot load the image:

Something funny going on with the BBC website for league 1 this evening - or is it a sign of things to come.....

Nah, they'll never get 6 points :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

That ticking and tocking must be making their sleepless nights even more miserable.

I imagine it must sound a bit like nails being hammered into a coffin

[Hibernia Na Eir]

so hope this stretches out until end of season. Then, BDO will be looking at pi55 in the pot.

[Jack]

Yep. Three and a half months later and nothing whatsoever seems to have happened to complete the CVA, which all the Budge/ FOH stuff is based on. BDO have reported absolutely no substantive progress, let alone produced a timetable indicating when Hearts will come out of administration. All they've done is offer vague whispers about trying to expedite this before the money runs out.

If I was a Jambo I'd be asking hard questions of them and FOH. It's getting to the point where the future of their club really could depend on it.

Its hard answers they need but if they got them ...

[Sergey]

Yep. Three and a half months later and nothing whatsoever seems to have happened to complete the CVA, which all the Budge/ FOH stuff is based on. BDO have reported absolutely no substantive progress, let alone produced a timetable indicating when Hearts will come out of administration. All they've done is offer vague whispers about trying to expedite this before the money runs out.

If I was a Jambo I'd be asking hard questions of them and FOH. It's getting to the point where the future of their club really could depend on it.　　

いt’s亜cつ亜lly悔いて差dふぉrてぇm、ぼb。

[Chibs]

　　

いt’s亜cつ亜lly悔いて差dふぉrてぇm、ぼb。
Chinese whispers?

[WeeWendy]

　　

いt’s亜cつ亜lly悔いて差dふぉrてぇm、ぼb。


No it's not!

[Sergey]

Looks like my 'Soonbe' account has been closed on Kickback - an account with over 1500 posts :faf:

Many more to play with :wink:

[Seveno]

Looks like my 'Soonbe' account has been closed on Kickback - an account with over 1500 posts :faf:

Many more to play with :wink:

Brilliant. They really are sharp as tacks.

[CropleyWasGod]

Brilliant. They really are sharp as tacks.

Not as sharp as the tacks man.

:rolleyes:

[GreenLake]

Looks like my 'Soonbe' account has been closed on Kickback - an account with over 1500 posts :faf:

Many more to play with :wink:

Sir David Rat-in-burger must have tipped them off as he seemed a bit riled by some of your last posts about the flatulentman, who he thinks is a good source of information over there. He was bang on about them getting the shares handed over and coming out of admin.......oh wait.
:I'm waiti:I'm waiti:I'm waiti:I'm waiti

:lolyam:

[Coco Bryce]

Sir David Rat-in-burger must have tipped them off as he seemed a bit riled by some of your last posts about the flatulentman, who he thinks is a a good source of information over there. He was bang on about them getting the shares handed over and coming out of admin.......oh wait.
:I'm waiti:I'm waiti:I'm waiti:I'm waiti

:lolyam:

That Gasman felly knows absolute plumbs about anything involving the latest goings on down Tincastle way. They all lap up his pish though.

[Dashing Bob S]

I wonder if Gassman will ever get round to apologising to his fellow KB chums for the disinformation he's spread over the there regarding the status of the shares completion of the CVA. We'll just have to wait and see. :wink:

[Mixu62]

Would I be correct in pointing out that although they are not yet relegated, but our point at Inverness means they can no longer mathematically finish above us. With 9/10 games to go. How do you say......pleasing.

[LancsHibs]

Would I be correct in pointing out that although they are not yet relegated, but our point at Inverness means they can no longer mathematically finish above us. With 9/10 games to go. How do you say......pleasing.

Surly some mistake with youth mathematics, they were supposed to finish above us! :cb

[Ronniekirk]

Would I be correct in pointing out that although they are not yet relegated, but our point at Inverness means they can no longer mathematically finish above us. With 9/10 games to go. How do you say......pleasing.
That's no great achievement .Nothing more than dominating them in next derby and beating them by a few goals and watching them leave early will be enough for me .Them a Liquidation so they get their just deserts. :wink:

[Waxy]

Does Romamov effectively still own them?

[CropleyWasGod]

Does Romamov effectively still own them?

UBIG own 49.something % of them, UKIO own 29.something%, Vlad's sister (in law?) owns another slice, there a few other randoms, and some Hearts supporters own a slice for which they subscribed but didn't received their share certificates.

[K-Zazu]

UBIG own 49.something % of them, UKIO own 29.something%, Vlad's sister (in law?) owns another slice, there a few other randoms, and some Hearts supporters own a slice for which they subscribed but didn't received their share certificates.

What are these share certificates u speak of?

[GreenLake]

UBIG own 49.something % of them, UKIO own 29.something%, Vlad's sister (in law?) owns another slice, there a few other randoms, and some Hearts supporters own a slice for which they subscribed but didn't received their share certificates.

Are those share certificates frozen and near impossible to get a hold of too?

[CropleyWasGod]

Are those share certificates frozen and near impossible to get a hold of too?

They're in the post. :cb

[GreenLake]

They're in the post. :cb

Post Holocene or Pleistocene?

:snowman1

[CropleyWasGod]

Post holocene or pleistocene?

:snowman1

Plasticine, for all they're worth.

[Brunswickbill]

UBIG own 49.something % of them, UKIO own 29.something%, Vlad's sister (in law?) owns another slice, there a few other randoms, and some Hearts supporters own a slice for which they subscribed but didn't received their share certificates.
http://www.hmsa.org.uk. Where does this crowd fit in?

[PatHead]

The resident Jambo at work owned shares which he refused to sell to Vlad. Take it he wasn't the only one and there are a few. These will be the guys who received their invite to the shareholder's meeting about the CVA after it had taken place last year. Naughty BDO.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.hmsa.org.uk. Where does this crowd fit in?

They are, as far as I can see, an association of shareholders. Presumably open to all shareholders:-

That's where we come in : the Heart of Midlothian Shareholders' Association exists to advance the interests of Heart of Midlothian FC, to express and represent the views of the shareholders of Heart of Midlothian FC plc, and to provide a social forum for Association members and their guests.

The next meeting:-

Our next Dinner Meeting will take place on Thursday 27th March 2014. The meeting will commence at 7.00pm with the usual format of a 2 course meal followed by tea/coffee. The bar will be open from 6.15pm.

Our guest for the evening will be Ian Murray MP.

[jacomo]

They are, as far as I can see, an association of shareholders. Presumably open to all shareholders:-

That's where we come in : the Heart of Midlothian Shareholders' Association exists to advance the interests of Heart of Midlothian FC, to express and represent the views of the shareholders of Heart of Midlothian FC plc, and to provide a social forum for Association members and their guests.

The next meeting:-

Our next Dinner Meeting will take place on Thursday 27th March 2014. The meeting will commence at 7.00pm with the usual format of a 2 course meal followed by tea/coffee. The bar will be open from 6.15pm.

Our guest for the evening will be Ian Murray MP.

Baying crowd: wtf is happening? Any progress at all?

I am an MP: big movement. Revolution. Create history. Fantastic supporters. If you possibly can do so, give or give more. Very small admin fee. Ann Budge likes purple, Levein and Bentleys, in that order. In answer to your question... er, no.

[Springbank]

Baying crowd: wtf is happening? Any progress at all?

I am an MP: big movement. Revolution. Create history. Fantastic supporters. If you possibly can do so, give or give more. Very small admin fee. Ann Budge likes purple, Levein and Bentleys, in that order. In answer to your question... er, no.

I'm sorry, after hearing the part in bold I had wistfully already forgetten there ever was a question.
After all, You Are An MP and we are talking about The Famous.
Who needs questions?

[Waxy]

Baying crowd: wtf is happening? Any progress at all?

I am an MP: big movement. Revolution. Create history. Fantastic supporters. If you possibly can do so, give or give more. Very small admin fee. Ann Budge likes purple, Levein and Bentleys, in that order. In answer to your question... er, no.
I know we're not meant to just write lol. But lol.

[jacomo]

I know we're not meant to just write lol. But lol.

Lol.

[CyberSauzee]

http://www.hmsa.org.uk. Where does this crowd fit in?

If they form a supporters owned club - either post admin or from scratch due to liquidation - then the current shareholders will have nothing.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they form a supporters owned club - either post admin or from scratch due to liquidation - then the current shareholders will have nothing.

That's only half-true, no?

If the CVA goes through, FOH will get UBIG's and UKIO's shares. The remaining shareholders will remain as they are, won't they?

If it doesn't go through, you're right, the current shareholders will have nothing. Although, as happened with us, Budge might give the current fan-shareholders some shares as a token of goodwill.

[greenginger]

If they form a supporters owned club - either post admin or from scratch due to liquidation - then the current shareholders will have nothing.


Bill Alves , the Shareholders Association chairman is also a director of FoH.

[KeithTheHibby]

Anyone an idea what the likely drop will be tv and prize money for the yams next season?

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone an idea what the likely drop will be tv and prize money for the yams next season?

Depends what league they're in. :greengrin

[KeithTheHibby]

Depends what league they're in. :greengrin


:greengrin Lets be kind and say the championship!

[stevejordan]

Still no news on when the shares will be getting thawed out it has all went very quiet every day that passes with no news draws them closer to Liquidation

[Weststandwanab]

Next Tuesday is the day we will find out if anything is happening.

My bet is precisely nothing will happen that day.

[CropleyWasGod]

Next Tuesday is the day we will find out if anything is happening.

My bet is precisely nothing will happen that day.

Tuesday is the day for electing the UKIO creditors' committee. That is all that will happen.

There may be biscuits, though. That is in the lap of the Gods.

[Gus Fring]

Even if they decide to deal with the Yams on Tuesday and sign off on transferring the shares it won't matter. UBIG is the majority shareholder and they haven't set a date for their own meeting yet.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even if they decide to deal with the Yams on Tuesday and sign off on transferring the shares it won't matter. UBIG is the majority shareholder and they haven't set a date for their own meeting yet.

It's not on the agenda, though, IIRC.

[Gus Fring]

It's not on the agenda, though, IIRC.

it's not. I'm just highlighting that the Yams excitement over this meeting is pointless. It's almost insignificant to them.

[Sergey]

it's not. I'm just highlighting that the Yams excitement over this meeting is pointless. It's almost insignificant to them.

It's not even a meeting of creditors, it's merely a voting procedure to select a creditors committee.

[greenginger]

it's not. I'm just highlighting that the Yams excitement over this meeting is pointless. It's almost insignificant to them.


Have they sent any fresh baked cakes as a gesture of goodwill ?

[7062]

That was some impressive user ID juggling from CWG/Sergey/Bajillons.

[Kato]

That was some impressive user ID juggling from CWG/Sergey/Bajillons.

Thanks.

[GordonHFC]

Tuesday is the day for electing the UKIO creditors' committee. That is all that will happen.

There may be biscuits, though. That is in the lap of the Gods.

Wouldn't it be funny if they had little Jam Tarts

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks.

You're welcome.

[greenginger]

It's not even a meeting of creditors, it's merely a voting procedure to select a creditors committee.

Are there any indications as to the normal time span between the Creditor Committee election and a proper meeting with proposals, votes , decisions ?

Weeks, Months , Many Months ? :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

Tuesday is the day for electing the UKIO creditors' committee. That is all that will happen.

There may be biscuits, though. That is in the lap of the Gods. Yes, I really meant the next wee instalment was Tuesday but I expect it to be a non event - Yam wise.


Even if they decide to deal with the Yams on Tuesday and sign off on transferring the shares it won't matter. UBIG is the majority shareholder and they haven't set a date for their own meeting yet.Correct.


Wouldn't it be funny if they had little Jam TartsBrilliant.

[CropleyWasGod]

Are there any indications as to the normal time span between the Creditor Committee election and a proper meeting with proposals, votes , decisions ?

Weeks, Months , Many Months ? :greengrin

If the 30 days' notice rule is correct, then the earliest any such meeting could happen would be 17 April.

Realistically, though, that's unrealistic. :greengrin

[CyberSauzee]

That's only half-true, no?

If the CVA goes through, FOH will get UBIG's and UKIO's shares. The remaining shareholders will remain as they are, won't they?

If it doesn't go through, you're right, the current shareholders will have nothing. Although, as happened with us, Budge might give the current fan-shareholders some shares as a token of goodwill.

Yes, you're right CWG. In my haste earlier today I was still thinking that a post admin Hearts will be a fan owned club, and as we know, that's not the case for at least several years, if at all.

I was thinking of FoH's stated aim of one member one vote. That means having, for example, a supporter's society where all members have an equal share; this society wholly owns the entity 'xyz football club limited'. That's how a lot of UK fan based clubs are run.

[Mr White]

There may be biscuits, though. That is in the lap of the Gods.

Unlikely to be biscuits unless creditors bring their own, similar to the pen situation.

[Dashing Bob S]

If the 30 days' notice rule is correct, then the earliest any such meeting could happen would be 17 April.

Realistically, though, that's unrealistic. :greengrin

The decision as to whether they go for a strategic liquidation at the end of the season and try to bid for all the assets, inc the PBS, or whether to solider on in admin with the possible assistance of Budge/FOH money for a championship season, must be rapidly looming, if it hasn't been already taken.

Whatever the line they spin to the fans, I can't believe that they actually believe the CVA can be completed any time soon.

[stevejordan]

The decision as to whether they go for a strategic liquidation at the end of the season and try to bid for all the assets, inc the PBS, or whether to solider on in admin with the possible assistance of Budge/FOH money for a championship season, must be rapidly looming, if it hasn't been already taken.

Whatever the line they spin to the fans, I can't believe that they actually believe the CVA can be completed any time soon.


They have stopped the spin though not a story for weeks all very quiet UBIG are getting he haw or a tiny fraction of what is due so why would they be in any hurry to help them UKIO Are getting the money budgey has put in so they are in a hurry but its all in UBIGs liquidators hands and i am sure he has bigger fish to fry.

[CropleyWasGod]

They have stopped the spin though not a story for weeks all very quiet UBIG are getting he haw or a tiny fraction of what is due so why would they be in any hurry to help them UKIO Are getting the money budgey has put in so they are in a hurry but its all in UBIGs liquidators hands and i am sure he has bigger fish to fry.

Not strictly true. It's in the hands of 3 separate parties.

1. the creditors of UKIO, to approve the CVA.

2. the creditors of UBIG, to approve the sale of the shares.

3. the Lithuanian Court, to approve the above AND unfreeze the shares.

If any one of these fails, the CVA fails.

[greenginger]

They have stopped the spin though not a story for weeks all very quiet UBIG are getting he haw or a tiny fraction of what is due so why would they be in any hurry to help them UKIO Are getting the money budgey has put in so they are in a hurry but its all in UBIGs liquidators hands and i am sure he has bigger fish to fry.

The Yams are a minute sideshow in the Ukio/UBIG liquidation.

The Famous are just not famous in the Eastern European Financial Skullduggery stakes.

[Spike Mandela]

What has happened to the other businesses under the UBIG umbrella? Is the aluminium plant still operating for instance?

[CropleyWasGod]

What has happened to the other businesses under the UBIG umbrella? Is the aluminium plant still operating for instance?

Think it's potted heid.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/bosnia-birac-suspension-idUSL5N0CV23X20130408

http://www.intellinews.com/bosnia-and-herzegovina-1011/claims-against-bosnian-alumina-plant-birac-in-liquidation-reach-eur-136mn-8097/

[Weststandwanab]

Unlikely to be biscuits unless creditors bring their own, similar to the pen situation. I am not sure Biscuits will be invited.


The decision as to whether they go for a strategic liquidation at the end of the season and try to bid for all the assets, inc the PBS, or whether to solider on in admin with the possible assistance of Budge/FOH money for a championship season, must be rapidly looming, if it hasn't been already taken.

Whatever the line they spin to the fans, I can't believe that they actually believe the CVA can be completed any time soon. The decision will already have been taken (the former being my opinion) Budgie is not daft, if she was daft she would not be asking for security for her £2.5m.


What has happened to the other businesses under the UBIG umbrella? Is the aluminium plant still operating for instance? That plant shut ages ago and all of the assets wll be under the control of he respective Admins.

[Spike Mandela]

Think it's potted heid.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/bosnia-birac-suspension-idUSL5N0CV23X20130408

http://www.intellinews.com/bosnia-and-herzegovina-1011/claims-against-bosnian-alumina-plant-birac-in-liquidation-reach-eur-136mn-8097/

Cheers CWG. So many lives ruined by that crook. Hearts fans' troubles pale in significance really.

[Gus Fring]

I can't help but wonder how much the situation in Crimea will affect any decisions? Romanov was a Russian alleged conman who has shafted the Lithuanian tax payer for millions. There's not much goodwill when it comes to Russia at the moment and they likely won't want to be seen to be doing nothing about his behaviour.

The silence from all concerned is deafening as well. This feels like the longest BDO, Hearts and even Barry Anderson have been about the whole thing. The FOH have released a couple of incidental statements but nothing with anything of value. It's not because there's nothing to say because that hasn't stopped any of them before.

What happens next really is out of their hands. They are like the terminal patient hoping they make it to Disneyland before that fateful day comes but it could be next month, it might not be for another year.

[CropleyWasGod]

The decision will already have been taken (the former being my opinion) Budgie is not daft, if she was daft she would not be asking for security for her £2.5m.



What security can FOH give?

AB will be the sole/main shareholder in post-admin Hearts. Given that they would own the PBS, that's her security.

[truehibernian]

I can't help but wonder how much the situation in Crimea will affect any decisions? Romanov was a Russian alleged conman who has shafted the Lithuanian tax payer for millions. There's not much goodwill when it comes to Russia at the moment and they likely won't want to be seen to be doing nothing about his behaviour.

The silence from all concerned is deafening as well. This feels like the longest BDO, Hearts and even Barry Anderson have been about the whole thing. The FOH have released a couple of incidental statements but nothing with anything of value. It's not because there's nothing to say because that hasn't stopped any of them before.

What happens next really is out of their hands. They are like the terminal patient hoping they make it to Disneyland before that fateful day comes but it could be next month, it might not be for another year.

To be honest B, I think we'll hear more than enough from them once relegation is confirmed. The Motherwell and Killie results, after their wee revival, were killers - took all the focus and momentum away from Planet Budge.

Once it's confirmed, they'll hit the marketing train again, the 'rebuild promise' will hit maximum speed, promises of players fit to wear the jersey already lined up regardless of division, etc, etc.

Give it time mate, they're never ever quiet for long.

[hibees 7062]

Depends what league they're in. :greengrin

Champions league , no ?

[hibees 7062]

That was some impressive user ID juggling from CWG/Sergey/Bajillons.

Don't know how he does it :greengrin

[stevejordan]

Think it's potted heid.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/bosnia-birac-suspension-idUSL5N0CV23X20130408

http://www.intellinews.com/bosnia-and-herzegovina-1011/claims-against-bosnian-alumina-plant-birac-in-liquidation-reach-eur-136mn-8097/

Do all these creditors need to approve the cva which tells them they will get he haw ? confused now.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do all these creditors need to approve the cva which tells them they will get he haw ? confused now.

Birac aren't a creditor of UKIO; they are a debtor. They owe them, according to that report, 155m Euros.

And, UKIO won't get hee haw.

[stevejordan]

Birac aren't a creditor of UKIO. They owe them, according to that report, 155m Euros.

And, UKIO won't get hee haw.


And that is just one of the many many headaches the UBIG Administrator has to deal with and with all this mess to sort out being a priority i cant see it being a priority getting round to un freezing some poxy shares in a football club in Scotland.
This mess will run and run for years and with it being so quiet you kinda get the thought that they are planning Liquidation and are putting together the Spin now.

[Deansy]

Is David Southern still there ?. Haven't heard anything about/from him for a while ?

[fat freddy]

[B]They are like the terminal patient hoping they make it to Disneyland before that fateful day comes but it could be next month, it might not be for another year.


Intereseting analogy of their circumstance but i view them more as an endangered species of rare animal on the verge of extinction due to mankinds relentless persuit of financial gain...perhaps they could be considered as a species of rare toad that inhabits the rain forests of Central America but the part of the forest they inhabit is owned by cash crop farmers and the bulldozers are being prepared for deforestation of the area...the poor yamtoad can only stand by and stare as the fabric of their existance is demolished right in front of their disbelieving eyes leaving them helpless in a barren world of unforgiving predators who can barely see the famous yamtoad as they crush it underfoot in their haste to turn their habitat into..eh, flats

The only hope the yamtoad has now is if Sting and Bono pitch up at Tynie with a delegation of Greenpeace activists and a charity single which could fund the purchase of a massive flare gun which can melt the frozen shares..this is getting silly now, i better stop..

[Seveno]

Champions league , no ?

Haha, they were promised Champions League and, at best, they might get Championship.

[grunt]

The decision as to whether they go for a strategic liquidation at the end of the season and try to bid for all the assets, inc the PBS, or whether to solider on in admin with the possible assistance of Budge/FOH money for a championship season, must be rapidly looming, if it hasn't been already taken.Even if they do liquidate, how would Budge be able to buy the PBS? It's covered by a security? And it doesn't look as though UKIO's administrators will be in a position to approve the sale of anything in the near future.

[Ozyhibby]

Even if they do liquidate, how would Budge be able to buy the PBS? It's covered by a security? And it doesn't look as though UKIO's administrators will be in a position to approve the sale of anything in the near future.

That's what I thought but apparently the liquidators just sell it anyway and hand back what's left of the money after their fees to the Lithuanians.

[Weststandwanab]

What security can FOH give?

AB will be the sole/main shareholder in post-admin Hearts. Given that they would own the PBS, that's her security. You answered the question there.


Birac aren't a creditor of UKIO; they are a debtor. They owe them, according to that report, 155m Euros.

And, UKIO won't get hee haw.Pleasing.


Even if they do liquidate, how would Budge be able to buy the PBS? It's covered by a security? And it doesn't look as though UKIO's administrators will be in a position to approve the sale of anything in the near future. When Liquidated the game changes totally, CWG will tell us how it will be.

[Ronniekirk]

What has happened to the other businesses under the UBIG umbrella? Is the aluminium plant still operating for instance?
Think it went into Smelt-down and they canned it .:rolleyes:

[greenginger]

Do all these creditors need to approve the cva which tells them they will get he haw ? confused now.

I think the delay was over a squabble about the amounts each entity is owed.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=lt&u=http://www.ub.lt/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D8xX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dsb

I think it is established that the State Investment Insurance Fund is owed more than 50% of the total.

That might speed the decision making process for the Ukio Bankas part of the circus.

[stevejordan]

The yams do not get it they are dancing around in a minefield twirling silly scarves and thinking the light at the end of the tunnel is on the horizon unfortunatly the light is a trains light heading for them at full pelt and they are about to step on a mine Liquidation looms.

[Ronniekirk]

The yams do not get it they are dancing around in a minefield twirling silly scarves and thinking the light at the end of the tunnel is on the horizon unfortunatly the light is a trains light heading for them at full pelt and they are about to step on a mine Liquidation looms.
That's A fair old visceral image you have conjured up there.:wink:

[leggeto]

Don't they know what has happened to all the other vlad clubs,their wee club will go the same way

[CraigHibee]

Is David Southern still there ?. Haven't heard anything about/from him for a while ?

i think he is still over there but frequenting the saunas and strip clubs, he used the "i'm heading over to speak to the lith's" as a smoke screen :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Don't they know what has happened to all the other vlad clubs,their wee club will go the same way

Were any of them as famous as THE Famous tho?

[Dashing Bob S]

It's hard to say, from a business point of view, whether liquidation in the close season or trying to lurch on up to another season in admin in the championship is the better deal.

Both will bring huge problems in their wake. The second would depend what sort of arrangements could be reached with Budge/FOH finances.

[GreenLake]

Are there any indications as to the normal time span between the Creditor Committee election and a proper meeting with proposals, votes , decisions ?

Weeks, Months , Many Months ? :greengrin

Must be days. The gassman said they would be handed the shares and be out of admin lickety split and his information is "bang on" reliable, according to Sir Daft-tit Arsenborough.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even if they do liquidate, how would Budge be able to buy the PBS? It's covered by a security? And it doesn't look as though UKIO's administrators will be in a position to approve the sale of anything in the near future.

If liquidation happens, the PBS goes on the open market, and is sold to the highest bidder.

If that's Budge at £2m, she gets it. As Ozy says, the bulk of that goes to the UKIO administrator, after the liquidator has been paid.

The problem, though, is that an open sale invites property developers and the likes into the game. That might be someone who wants to run it as a football stadium, and rent it to NewYams, or else it might be someone who wants to build the Gorgie Riviera. If one of them sees a value greater than Budge or FOH is prepared to pay, they would get it.

Other than cashing in their security, I don't think that UKIO's admins have much of a say in the process. (looking around for Robin to tell me I'm talking shecht.)

[CropleyWasGod]

It's hard to say, from a business point of view, whether liquidation in the close season or trying to lurch on up to another season in admin in the championship is the better deal.

Both will bring huge problems in their wake. The second would depend what sort of arrangements could be reached with Budge/FOH finances.


If they could guarantee that the PBS would be sold to someone who wanted to retain it as a stadium, liquidation wouldn't be too bad an option. It would provide certainty, clarity and freedom from major debt... albeit in the Lowland League or Division whatever.

That's a guarantee, though, that would be difficult to obtain.

[Dashing Bob S]

If they could guarantee that the PBS would be sold to someone who wanted to retain it as a stadium, liquidation wouldn't be too bad an option. It would provide certainty, clarity and freedom from major debt... albeit in the Lowland League or Division whatever.

That's a guarantee, though, that would be difficult to obtain.

I still think it's the most likely option.

Going into a second season admin with no guarantee if or when the shares issue could be obtained and the CVA completed, would mean depleting FOH resources, which were meant to buy rather than operate the club. (Assuming this could be done.) It could place the club in an unsatisfying limbo (from their POV) for a long, long, time and set of a cycle of decline and despair. Once the emotional resonance at having 'saved' their cub dissipates, Hearts fans who have set up DD's might start to feel that they have ended up paying a hell of a lot for championship football and a club with minimal investment on the playing side.

At least with liquidation, they would be starting at the bottom with nowhere to fall to, and the only way would be up, with a united support for a fan-owned club.

The great variable, as you say, is the PBS. Not only is it their home, the land on it is the biggest fixed asset to borrow against. If they lose that, then it becomes a much, much bigger struggle.

[CropleyWasGod]

I still think it's the most likely option.

Going into a second season admin with no guarantee if or when the shares issue could be obtained and the CVA completed, would mean depleting FOH resources, which were meant to buy rather than operate the club. (Assuming this could be done.) It could place the club in an unsatisfying limbo (from their POV) for a long, long, time and set of a cycle of decline and despair. Once the emotional resonance at having 'saved' their cub dissipates, Hearts fans who have set up DD's might start to feel that they have ended up paying a hell of a lot for championship football and a club with minimal investment on the playing side.

At least with liquidation, they would be starting at the bottom with nowhere to fall to, and the only way would be up, with a united support for a fan-owned club.

The great variable, as you say, is the PBS. Not only is it their home, the land on it is the biggest fixed asset to borrow against. If they lose that, then it becomes a much, much bigger struggle.

The big L was always my favoured option, going back a number of years. I said that, not from a Hibby perspective, but from a dispassionate commercial one. A controlled liquidation 3 years or more ago, and they could have been almost back in the SPFL by now, debt free and still with their fanbase and stadium.

But would they bloody listen?:rolleyes:

[lord bunberry]

I still think it's the most likely option.

Going into a second season admin with no guarantee if or when the shares issue could be obtained and the CVA completed, would mean depleting FOH resources, which were meant to buy rather than operate the club. (Assuming this could be done.) It could place the club in an unsatisfying limbo (from their POV) for a long, long, time and set of a cycle of decline and despair. Once the emotional resonance at having 'saved' their cub dissipates, Hearts fans who have set up DD's might start to feel that they have ended up paying a hell of a lot for championship football and a club with minimal investment on the playing side.

At least with liquidation, they would be starting at the bottom with nowhere to fall to, and the only way would be up, with a united support for a fan-owned club.

The great variable, as you say, is the PBS. Not only is it their home, the land on it is the biggest fixed asset to borrow against. If they lose that, then it becomes a much, much bigger struggle.

I think the biggest danger for the liquidation scenario is that they don't manage to get everything sorted for the start of the new season and are forced to take a year out. A year out would mean their place being taken by someone else and presumably losing their spfl share, I still think that liquidation is the best way to go for them but either way is risky.

[Dashing Bob S]

The big L was always my favoured option, going back a number of years. I said that, not from a Hibby perspective, but from a dispassionate commercial one. A controlled liquidation 3 years or more ago, and they could have been almost back in the SPFL by now, debt free and still with their fanbase and stadium.

But would they bloody listen?:rolleyes:

With that in mind, I believe the very, very worst thing they could possibly do at this time would be to change their strips and shorts to pink, paint the PBS the same color, sign only Faroe Islanders and give 95% of season ticket revenues to canine and feline rescue charities.

[GreenLake]

I think the biggest danger for the liquidation scenario is that they don't manage to get everything sorted for the start of the new season and are forced to take a year out. A year out would mean their place being taken by someone else and presumably losing their spfl share, I still think that liquidation is the best way to go for them but either way is risky.

Let's be honest. A year out will be a merciful respite from what they will have to go through if they can enter a team in a lower league without a pot to pish in.

[Criswell]

If UBIG's shares in Hearts are frozen due to criminal investigations, why aren't UKIP's as well? Were they not both major players in Vlad's financial scams?

[Hank Schrader]

If UBIG's shares in Hearts are frozen due to criminal investigations, why aren't UKIP's as well? Were they not both major players in Vlad's financial scams?

UKIP? Another reason to hate them! Always thought that Nigel Farage looked like a Merrick...

[lord bunberry]

Let's be honest. A year out will be a merciful respite from what they will have to go through if they can enter a team in a lower league without a pot to pish in.

You might be right there, if they start next season on -15 it will almost certainly mean back to back relegations.

[CropleyWasGod]

If UBIG's shares in Hearts are frozen due to criminal investigations, why aren't UKIP's as well? Were they not both major players in Vlad's financial scams?

UKIP, the BNP and the NF are major political forces in Central Europe these days, that's why :greengrin

UBIG were the owners of UKIO Bankas; they (UBIG) were at the top of the pyramid. All of their assets were frozen, including their ownership of UKIO and the shares in Hearts. That was, IMO, to prevent any of those assets being sold off and the proceeds salted away before the authorities could get their hands on them.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think the biggest danger for the liquidation scenario is that they don't manage to get everything sorted for the start of the new season and are forced to take a year out. A year out would mean their place being taken by someone else and presumably losing their spfl share, I still think that liquidation is the best way to go for them but either way is risky.

Yes I agree, that's why the decision will need to be made very quickly after the season is over so they can prepare for the new one as a Newco.

[Glesgahibby]

I see there mock thread of this one on vladmademaarseslack ,
has been relegated to page 2 :greengrin
Sergey could you please bump it back
to page 1.

[Ozyhibby]

I see there mock thread of this one on vladmademaarseslack ,
has been relegated to page 2 :greengrin
Sergey could you please bump it back
to page 1.

They would rather talk about just about anything other than what really important to them. They're scared.
Expect to see the '5-1 all around the world' thread a lot.

[GreenLake]

They would rather talk about just about anything other than what really important to them. They're scared.
Expect to see the '5-1 all around the world' thread a lot.

It's hard to imagine jambos traveling around the world. Most of them don't look further than the end of their nose, although in the case of Roodee, that would be quite a distance.

[Springbank]

Maybe the notorious / odious section n at Tynecastle is fertile ground for ukip

The so called Famous hmfc have been most famous internationally in recent years for two things:
Allowing a fan to assault opposition managers/players on the field of play;
And
Disrupting a minutes silence (was it for the passing of Pope John Paul II ?)

In many ways a part of Edinburgh life that I will not mourn or miss

[Brunswickbill]

If liquidation happens, the PBS goes on the open market, and is sold to the highest bidder.

If that's Budge at £2m, she gets it. As Ozy says, the bulk of that goes to the UKIO administrator, after the liquidator has been paid.

The problem, though, is that an open sale invites property developers and the likes into the game. That might be someone who wants to run it as a football stadium, and rent it to NewYams, or else it might be someone who wants to build the Gorgie Riviera. If one of them sees a value greater than Budge or FOH is prepared to pay, they would get it.

Other than cashing in their security, I don't think that UKIO's admins have much of a say in the process. (looking around for Robin to tell me I'm talking shecht.)

As UKIO have a security over the wongadome are they not in the driving seat when it comes to it's disposal?

[Kato]

They're scared.

You can smell it. Even through the usual smell their fear is starting to reek.

[Craig_in_Prague]

In the event of the big L - I really hope they lose the PBS.

Going by the continued arrogance of their big brothers through the west, same stadium and basically everything else as before ('other' than tighter financial control - ha bloody ha), losing your ground is for me, losing your identity.

Sighthill public park sounds about fair to play as newco yams.

Not asking too much, is it?

[CropleyWasGod]

As UKIO have a security over the wongadome are they not in the driving seat when it comes to it's disposal?

The liquidator drives the disposal. Ukio get their slice after his.

[Winston Ingram]

In the event of the big L - I really hope they lose the PBS.

Going by the continued arrogance of their big brothers through the west, same stadium and basically everything else as before ('other' than tighter financial control - ha bloody ha), losing your ground is for me, losing your identity.

Sighthill public park sounds about fair to play as newco yams.

Not asking too much, is it?

I drove past it yesterday. What state it's in. Their new stands look like they're about 100 years old. The whole stadium is a demolishers/developers dream.

[Calum68]

Tick Tock 👍

[Baw187]

Serious question here. What is to stop BDO selling STs and continuing to run the club as a going concern as long as it takes until the shares are available?? Then FOH take over from BDO at that point?

I've seen the fact that the ST money is fundamental to the FOH business plan but surely BDO just enact that business plan until FOH can legally take over??

Or am I missing something in terms of their pre and post admin operating model.?

[CropleyWasGod]

Serious question here. What is to stop BDO selling STs and continuing to run the club as a going concern as long as it takes until the shares are available?? Then FOH take over from BDO at that point?

I've seen the fact that the ST money is fundamental to the FOH business plan but surely BDO just enact that business plan until FOH can legally take over??

Or am I missing something in terms of their pre and post admin operating model.?

I think the issue is that, by taking in ST money, BDO would be creating a creditor (ie the ST holders). Pretty sure that's not allowed whilst in administration.

[Baw187]

I think the issue is that, by taking in ST money, BDO would be creating a creditor (ie the ST holders). Pretty sure that's not allowed whilst in administration.

Cheers CWG. That makes sense.

[K-Zazu]

What a sorry pathetic wee football club

[Ozyhibby]

I think the issue is that, by taking in ST money, BDO would be creating a creditor (ie the ST holders). Pretty sure that's not allowed whilst in administration.

Although they did sell season tickets last year?
Main problems I can see is that they would incur another 15 point penalty for next season, they would not be able to sign players (and they are likely to lose a couple of their best players) and therefor another relegation would be likely. Buying a league 1 club was def not the FoH business model.
Also, it costs about £80k a month for BDO to run Hearts.

[jacomo]

That's A fair old visceral image you have conjured up there.:wink:

What kind of sicko plants mines in a train tunnel? Seriously, these Jambos are weird people.

[CropleyisGod]

The big L was always my favoured option, going back a number of years. I said that, not from a Hibby perspective, but from a dispassionate commercial one. A controlled liquidation 3 years or more ago, and they could have been almost back in the SPFL by now, debt free and still with their fanbase and stadium.

But would they bloody listen?:rolleyes:

Surely only Vlad could have listened to you Crops as he was in control? He was too busy flushing the big maroon floater down the pan whilst robbing its followers blind...

[CropleyWasGod]

Although they did sell season tickets last year?
Main problems I can see is that they would incur another 15 point penalty for next season, they would not be able to sign players (and they are likely to lose a couple of their best players) and therefor another relegation would be likely. Buying a league 1 club was def not the FoH business model.
Also, it costs about £80k a month for BDO to run Hearts.

Pretty sure that was before they went into administration, no?

Think that was one of BJ's gripes when he went in, that the ST money had been spent.

[Jack Hackett]

Pretty sure that was before they went into administration, no?

Think that was one of BJ's gripes when he went in, that the ST money had been spent.

They did manage to con, sorry, cajole an extra 3k to buy after they took over

[Leithenhibby]

Although they did sell season tickets last year?
Main problems I can see is that they would incur another 15 point penalty for next season, they would not be able to sign players (and they are likely to lose a couple of their best players) and therefor another relegation would be likely. Buying a league 1 club was def not the FoH business model.
Also, it costs about £80k a month for BDO to run Hearts.


Pretty sure that was before they went into administration, no?

Think that was one of BJ's gripes when he went in, that the ST money had been spent.



I recall them selling ST..... It was after admin though, and some Yams were buying 2 or 3 at the time...... Pretty sure it was the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

They did manage to con, sorry, cajole an extra 3k to buy after they took over

Ah, okay. I'm maybe wrong on the ST/creditors bit, then.

Where's RobinP when you need him? :cb

[Ozyhibby]

Ah, okay. I'm maybe wrong on the ST/creditors bit, then.

Where's RobinP when you need him? :cb

Don't think you are wrong as such. It's not that they can't create creditors but any they do create, BDO are liable to. If they don't finish the season then BDO would have to refund everyone from their own money. Unlikely to happen.
I doubt BDO would take them into another season unless they had a guarantee the shares would eventually be delivered.

[CyberSauzee]

Yesterday in this thread someone mentioned how UBIG's other 'investment's were getting on.

One long forgotten one that was/is actually successful is the Balkan Investment Bank. What's interesting is how they've changed their 'About Us' page over time. Here's the current one:

http://www.bankasrpske.ba/eng/?page=3

And here's the one from yesteryear on their old website by the looks of things:

http://www.bib.ba/eng/?page=103

I especially like the 'Trustworthy Experience' logo. I miss Vlad.

[stevejordan]

Another day and no news tick tock tick tock

[Glesgahibby]

Ah, okay. I'm maybe wrong on the ST/creditors bit, then.

Where's RobinP when you need him? :cb
The reason they sold extra was IMO,because they knew they would get this far into the season,thus fulfilling there obligation of sale.
I don't think BDO can do that this time.
Without any proper timescale of CVA(proper CVA) completion date,surely that would be unethical and risk there reputation.

[Caversham Green]

Ah, okay. I'm maybe wrong on the ST/creditors bit, then.

Where's RobinP when you need him? :cb

My feeling is that it's more a difference of emphasis. Last year, it was the close season when BDO were punting STs, and the bulk had already been sold prior to A-day so to some extent they were just continuing an operation that had already started. They also had a degree of confidence that HoMFC would start the season, although they were making it very clear that they may not finish it.

Marketing STs now is a different kettle of worms - it's effectively a new sales operation, and that is not in BDO's remit as administrators. At this stage they would also have to stress that the club might not be able to take part in the season they were selling tickets for - that would seriously damage sales in any case and would create panic amongst the yams.

I think they probably could sell tickets if they absolutely had to, but it would have to be under instruction and indemnity from FoH or the Budgie bird.

[Brunswickbill]

The liquidator drives the disposal. Ukio get their slice after his.

Could UKIO call in the debt for the stadium and force a liquidation?

[Ozyhibby]

Could UKIO call in the debt for the stadium and force a liquidation?

Ukio appointed BDO so they can probably end it all now if the wanted, I think.

[Craig_in_Prague]

I do like this old beauty from back in August:

1 HMFC Limited's bid will provide a new 25,000 capacity stadium as a valuable income generator for the Hearts over the next 30 years.
2 There is no need for fans to dip into their pockets.
3 The ownership will be in the hands of local Hearts supporters.
4 Hearts fans will be represented on the new BoD.
5 Tynecastle will be retained for posterity and developed like Highbury, retaining Hearts HQ, conference & exhibition facilities and museum etc in a newly modified main stand.
6 The three stands will be dismantled and sold to Knockhill Racing Circuit.
7 The ground will be tastefully developed into an open space with surrounding 'terracing' available for former fans ashes and a memorial fountain in the centre circle.
8 The funding will come from new money generated by the stadium.
9 Bob Jamieson has worked on this proposal for over two years.
10 He has also instructed three top QCs and an advocate at Ampersand to provide a report on the possibility of a successful application to join the English Championship. Their report was ready in May and the advice is that the application would be 99% successful

[CropleyWasGod]

Could UKIO call in the debt for the stadium and force a liquidation?

I'm pretty sure that they can't, while they are in administration. Administration provides a level of protection against that type of action.

Besides, UKIO's creditors are still arguing about who pinched each other's pens, and why there are no biscuits.

[Kato]

I do like this old beauty from back in August:

1 HMFC Limited's bid will provide a new 25,000 capacity stadium as a valuable income generator for the Hearts over the next 30 years.
2 There is no need for fans to dip into their pockets.
3 The ownership will be in the hands of local Hearts supporters.
4 Hearts fans will be represented on the new BoD.
5 Tynecastle will be retained for posterity and developed like Highbury, retaining Hearts HQ, conference & exhibition facilities and museum etc in a newly modified main stand.
6 The three stands will be dismantled and sold to Knockhill Racing Circuit.
7 The ground will be tastefully developed into an open space with surrounding 'terracing' available for former fans ashes and a memorial fountain in the centre circle.
8 The funding will come from new money generated by the stadium.
9 Bob Jamieson has worked on this proposal for over two years.
10 He has also instructed three top QCs and an advocate at Ampersand to provide a report on the possibility of a successful application to join the English Championship. Their report was ready in May and the advice is that the application would be 99% successful

"Here's what you might have won, but you backed the wrong horse."

[jacomo]

"Here's what you might have won, but you backed the wrong horse."

You think? Even the dumbwits who were taken in by Romanov thought this was too good to be true. It reads like a fantasy wish list, with ludicrous sentimentality ladled on top for good measure.

I love his final assertion - that a bid to join the English Championship would be 99% successful. What about the 1%? Would HMFC still play one fixture every other season in Scotland?

[Paisley Hibby]

I still think it's the most likely option.

Going into a second season admin with no guarantee if or when the shares issue could be obtained and the CVA completed, would mean depleting FOH resources, which were meant to buy rather than operate the club. (Assuming this could be done.) It could place the club in an unsatisfying limbo (from their POV) for a long, long, time and set of a cycle of decline and despair. Once the emotional resonance at having 'saved' their cub dissipates, Hearts fans who have set up DD's might start to feel that they have ended up paying a hell of a lot for championship football and a club with minimal investment on the playing side.

At least with liquidation, they would be starting at the bottom with nowhere to fall to, and the only way would be up, with a united support for a fan-owned club.

The great variable, as you say, is the PBS. Not only is it their home, the land on it is the biggest fixed asset to borrow against. If they lose that, then it becomes a much, much bigger struggle.

I really hope they don't get liquidated. The alternative of them being in an unsatisfying limbo for a long, long, time sounds much more pleasing to me.

[Famous Fiver]

Reading all this I don't know whether to laugh at or feel sorry for all those people who put money in for shares, did cake bakes, brauhaus etc etc. to 'save' their club.
When the big L happens all that money will have been flushed down the pan, for what? A relegation. Wasted, burnt, sp*nked, choose an appropriate word.
I'm with you CWG, big L should have been addressed yoinks ago and all that wasted money could have gone into rebuilding the club.
I think Ill laugh at them......

TICK TOCK

[Dashing Bob S]

Well another week goes by and still no sign of a timetable for exiting admin.

No sense in panicking, let's just suck on that 5-1 dummy tit one more time...

NEXT week will see some positive developments in this vehway vehway compwex case.

[CyberSauzee]

Realistically they will have to wait until they are officially relegated before selling season tickets. When that happens it will be interesting to see if they do.

If yes to flogging them then the money will presumably be ring fenced like the Pars as pointed out by Bajillions. If there are any delays starting to sell them then it's safe to assume that BDO are envisaging problems as predicted by Sergey. And if they do start selling them and there is no sign of admin ending over the summer the malcontents will become greater in number as the new season approaches with a points deduction. Will it get that far?

I'm well aware that a malcontented Yam is an oxymoron, but I'm assuming that there are a few who don't post on PoppyThievesAreUs whose heads are well aware of the reality pointed out by CWG/Serge/Baj, but whose hearts (excuse the pun) won't quite let them believe what's going on.

[jacomo]

Well another week goes by and still no sign of a timetable for exiting admin.

No sense in panicking, let's just suck on that 5-1 dummy tit one more time...

NEXT week will see some positive developments in this vehway vehway compwex case.

Frankly, I'm getting a bit bored. No developments, no mad pronouncements from their Leaders, not even a trade mark Banderson blunder to liven things up.

If The Famous want to keep their audience interested, they're going to have to do a bit better than this.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Frankly, I'm getting a bit bored. No developments, no mad pronouncements from their Leaders, not even a trade mark Banderson blunder to liven things up.

If The Famous want to keep their audience interested, they're going to have to do a bit better than this.

Was thinking the same earlier, all too quiet. Where is allisbarry to give us a wee chuckle during these quiet times.
Where's big Bri and his interviews with Jackson.
It feels like quite a while, since some mouthpiece in the media gave all the wee lambs a warm fuzzy feeling that exiting admin was imminent.

The evening news is even boring. Locke saying Andy Webster would have made all the difference, they are envious of D UTD and a balanced side. Ah diddumms.

[Dashing Bob S]

I really hope they don't get liquidated. The alternative of them being in an unsatisfying limbo for a long, long, time sounds much more pleasing to me.

Liquidation probably equals unsatisfactory even longer term limbo plus, well, liquidation.

[stevejordan]

It is amazing how blinkered some of the hear7s supporters are they all are going with the " we will be debt free and sorted soon " the reality is they are in a mess and the frozen shares are a long long way from being un frozen months possibly years AKA Portsmouth FC

[robinp]

The reason they sold extra was IMO,because they knew they would get this far into the season,thus fulfilling there obligation of sale.
I don't think BDO can do that this time.
Without any proper timescale of CVA(proper CVA) completion date,surely that would be unethical and risk there reputation.

That's my view on it too. Day 1 BJ would have drafted up a pretty accurate cash flow projection for the rest of the season (prize money, TV money, etc etc) and said I need x amount to complete the season. If we sell x amount of ST's then we can see out the season and honour the pre-admin STs as well, thus not pissing off our own fans! Which they look to have just about achieved.

Post admin expenditure is lower, having shed the debts attributed to the old owners and they are on a semi level financial footing (just). He trades on, preserving the business as a going concern, on a shoestring budget, to try and find a buyer.

His current problem as I see it is this:

It is reported that the **** business plan is dependent on them getting all the ST money as working capital. They do not want BJ to start eating in to "their" cash. In order to preserve the business long enough for the shares to be de-frosted and handed over is going to need either a free cash injection from somebody or ST's to be sold. BJ is going to start running out of cash very soon. The end of the season is when cashflow is at it's tightest for clubs if you take out their season ticket sales/money; no games, cup games, etc. They have none of this and no cash in the bank. ST's being sold mean's **** might have to walk away. Who blinks first?

Something you also need to consider in all of this:
When an IP trades on with an insolvent business he cherry picks which contracts to preserve. He would normally enter into new contracts with suppliers he wishes to retain and this would normally be under the name such as "BJ and Tonto as Administrators for HOMFC (In Administration)". If it all goes tit's up during the season and their income was not as projected and had traded at a loss, owing suppliers cash, then THEY (BJ and Tonto) are PERSONALLY liable to those suppliers. Those are post administration creditors who come calling to BJ.

In a similar vein, if they took £2,000,000 in season ticket sales before the summer, spend the money on wages, trading etc and then come the new season the takeover falls apart having spend £500,000.00 of the supporters cash, BJ and Tonto are in deep ****. They close the doors with new creditors owned money. I would love to know the regulator's/monitor's take on them if that was to happen. This is effectively what Crops means when he says "selling ST potentially creates creditors". (I even ran this scenario past my boss, an IP, and he agrees with my scenario, BJ would also be extremely reprimanded and questioned by the authorities if that was to happen)

When you realise that trading on is not viable you close down immediately, no questions asked. Selling ST opens up a BIG (team) can of worms for BJ, but so does not selling them (does he want to be the Grim Reaper of Hearts!?).

People have also mentioned about the money being ring-fenced like Dunfermline. Dunfermline were very clear that if the CVA vote was rejected, the club would be liquidated that day and the meeting was very close to the start of the season (I think). There was also no other parties in the running for DAFC, it was the Supporters take over or nothing.

HOMFC, going by BJs previous mutterings, would appear to need this cash soon. They likely need to sell STs soon to meet an impending cash flow black hole, but he cannot guarantee that they can fulfill those tickets. DAFC had made it through the summer and the ST money was for the season ahead, they had gotten through the worst time for trading. It would appear that HOMFC will need such cash just to get to the new season, then what? How many less walkups, hospitality sales, shirt sales you going to have on an even lower budget team next season? in the Championship, fans paying less money etc etc?

Oh and are BDO really going to trade this on for years and years if the shares remain frozen? Where is the cash for their fees coming from...oh yes, even less money for the team, it's a never ending spiral of money problems.

edit: I'm sure/certain that in the DAFC scenario some third party agreed to meet the running costs of trading the club to keep it going until the CVA meeting, so that BDO didn't need the ST money. HOMFC's trading will cost a lot more to cover than DAFC!

[johnbc70]

BBC Football reported in November that Hearts could be out of admin in February, FOH then said these timescales were "entirely consistent" with the process of taking them out of admin.

Just saying likes.

Tick Tock

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks, Robin, excellent summary.

Knowing BJ of old, there's no way he will be putting himself and BDO in the IPA's sights. He may well come under pressure to sell ST's, of course, but I would be very surprised if he did succumb.

[robinp]

Thanks, Robin, excellent summary.

Knowing BJ of old, there's no way he will be putting himself and BDO in the IPA's sights. He may well come under pressure to sell ST's, of course, but I would be very surprised if he did.


Glad it makes some sense.

The usual botched summary job at lunch time, can't sacrifice chargeable time! I'm sure BJ would agree with that. :aok: :greengrin

edit: another potential Big (team) can of worms is player contracts, extending them, new contracts, wage increases/reductions, that's another issue entirely for another day. Another worry for BJ!

[Bighoose]

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.

[DC_Hibs]

Glad it makes some sense.

The usual botched summary job at lunch time, can't sacrifice chargeable time! I'm sure BJ would agree with that. :aok: :greengrin

edit: another potential Big (team) can of worms is player contracts, extending them, new contracts, wage increases/reductions, that's another issue entirely for another day. Another worry for BJ!

Are they due any money from the SPFL in a lump sum that could see basic costs covered over rhe summer IF they were forced to release all playing staff to cut costs?

[leggeto]

I think their darkest hour is coming soon,they will be on tv again pleading for cash,TICK TOCK

[Kato]

I'm not bored by the lack of movemnt at all. The respite from them whineing about signing players in the last window is a relief. FoH keeping schtum about how big their movement is is also a blessing.

All I hear is the distant drumming of impatient fingers from Gorgie and the gentle brush of tumbleweed from Lithuania, quite a funky groove to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

Glad it makes some sense.

The usual botched summary job at lunch time, can't sacrifice chargeable time! I'm sure BJ would agree with that. :aok: :greengrin

edit: another potential Big (team) can of worms is player contracts, extending them, new contracts, wage increases/reductions, that's another issue entirely for another day. Another worry for BJ!

I think they said a couple of weeks ago that they aren't doing any work on them for now. Presumably for the reasons you suggest.

Now get back to work.....:not worth

[CropleyWasGod]

Are they due any money from the SPFL in a lump sum that could see basic costs covered over rhe summer IF they were forced to release all playing staff to cut costs?

If they release all players, they'd have to shut the doors. They aren't allowed to sign anyone.

The SPFL money is due at the end of the season. That could tide them over for a wee while, but I think the £535k football debt has to be deducted first.

[Jack]

When the yams do lose the wongadome we'll have to look for a precident which might indicate what their future might look like.

Oh! Found one!!!

Just along from our friends at frozen share Portsmouth there's a club known as Brighton and Hove Albion.

They lost their ground in 1997 and it wasn't until 2011 when they rebuilt their new home at home in, well near, Brighton.

14 years as tenants as far away as Kent, 75 miles each way.

Of course there is an issue which Brighton and Hove Albion managed to overcome with the help of a flexible friend ... the construction cost of £93 million for a 22,000 seat stadium. I doubt Wonga will do the same.

[GreenLake]

I think their darkest hour is coming soon,they will be on tv again pleading for cash,TICK TOCK

And the yams will just keep on taking load after load.

[Ross4356]

I have been reading this thread but don't understand what the big deal about BJ selling Season Tickets is if the club is gonna run out of dough and the only alternative is the Big L

[CropleyWasGod]

I have been reading this thread but don't understand what the big deal about BJ selling Season Tickets is if the club is gonna run out of dough and the only alternative is the Big L

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

[Ross4356]

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, ie if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

Brilliant mate cheers

So this means season tickets will only be sold if they get out of admin and into the hands of FoH which they hope is before the start of next season but as no meaningful meetings have been arranged this remains nobody knows what date this is going to be?

Just out of wondering as there is a cooling off period does anyone know the last date they need to be sold so that FoH are in control for the start of next season?

[s.a.m]

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, ie if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

And in addition to that, the FOH business plan is based on the season ticket money being available to them to run the club after they take over.

[stevejordan]

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.


So the longer the shares stay frozen and the money runs out the headaches get bigger for BDO well i never seen that one which could be the staw that breaks the back well spoted Robin.

[CropleyWasGod]

Brilliant mate cheers

So this means season tickets will only be sold if they get out of admin and into the hands of FoH which they hope is before the start of next season but as no meaningful meetings have been arranged this remains nobody knows what date this is going to be?

Just out of wondering as there is a cooling off period does anyone know the last date they need to be sold so that FoH are in control for the start of next season?

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge. :greengrin

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

[Waxy]

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.
That lot wont cost them much per month in wages. BDO probably make more a month than the entire first team.

[CropleyWasGod]

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.

Doubtful.

Remember that they can't sign anyone whilst still in admin. So they have to keep a squad together.

[ehf]

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

I though Administrators always made it clear that they were contracting in that capacity (on behalf of the company in administration) and accept no personal liability?

[CropleyWasGod]

I though Administrators always made it clear that they were contracting in that capacity (on behalf of the company in administration) and accept no personal liability?

Not according to our resident IP. Robin's take on things is on the previous page.

[7062]

Doubtful.

Remember that they can't sign anyone whilst still in admin. So they have to keep a squad together.

Do you think that would extend to offering a player a new contract? Or is it all about the registration?

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you think that would extend to offering a player a new contract? Or is it all about the registration?

I think they could offer an existing player a new contract. However, as Robin P says, that could be another can of worms and is probably the reason why no negotiations have been started yet, and won't until relegation is confirmed, at the earliest.

[Jack Hackett]

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge. :greengrin

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

It's the bit about the Lithuanian Court approval that goes right over the happy clappers heads over by, and has been systematically hidden in the small print of all the 'good news' press releases and emails from BDO, FoH and Anne Budge.

The 'rubber stamp' they are eagerly anticipating is strictly between 2/3 sets of administrators about transfer of the shares. When/if that finally happens, the real hurdle of getting Court approval awaits. This would entail more 'meetings' and court hearings at dates even further away than the still unscheduled UBIG meeting. I would fully expect those involved in the criminal investigation to oppose the transfer of the shares, and then to appeal any decision in BDO's favour should the transfer be approved.

The timescale for ALL of this to happen is not in hertz favour

Tick Tock

[Ozyhibby]

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge. :greengrin

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.

Sigh.... I love this place. :greengrin

Cheers, Ozy.

[grammyb111]

Not according to our resident IP. Robin's take on things is on the previous page.

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

[Jack Hackett]

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

.....do you mean something like a share issue to finance youth development? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

That's, I think, what BJ was alluding to back in November:-

He said: “When the money runs out will depend on how much the supporters give us, but, on the basis of what we have now, then I would say things will get a bit hairy going into February and March. We have enough funding to get to March, but once we get past that then we would be forced to start selling next season tickets for the following season to raise money, and that is a very difficult thing to do. There are legalities to drawing down money for games that haven’t been played – you would probably need to change the terms and conditions if you ask them to buy something they may not get. It is like a donation when you get to that stage.

[Sergey]

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.


Sigh.... I love this place. :greengrin

Cheers, Ozy.

And, at best for them, that is still several months away, not days or weeks...and would also be open to contention from the Ukio creditors, who are yet to be appointed.

Thanks also to RobinP - sort of knew the scenario myself, but good to get it confirmed by an IP.

The ice is getting thinner and thinner where Yams/BDO and time is concerned; but the shares are still frozen solid and don't look like thawing out any time soon.

[grammyb111]

That's, I think, what BJ was alluding to back in November:-

He said: “When the money runs out will depend on how much the supporters give us, but, on the basis of what we have now, then I would say things will get a bit hairy going into February and March. We have enough funding to get to March, but once we get past that then we would be forced to start selling next season tickets for the following season to raise money, and that is a very difficult thing to do. There are legalities to drawing down money for games that haven’t been played – you would probably need to change the terms and conditions if you ask them to buy something they may not get. It is like a donation when you get to that stage.

Knew there must've been some comment alluding to that, I was just too lazy to look for it :greengrin

[grammyb111]

.....do you mean something like a share issue to finance youth development? :wink:

You mean to say they lied where the money was going :confused:

[GreenLake]

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

Gassman should share that liability since he aids in promoting BJ's rights to carry out this new scam to fleece the maroon dupes yet another time.

[CropleyWasGod]

Gassman should share that liability since he aids in promoting BJ's rights to carry out this new scam to fleece the maroon dupes yet another time.

BJ has the right to do it. Think the point is that he would be opening himself and BDO up to all kinds of schecht if he did.

There's "rights" and there's "commercial daftness".

[Waxy]

What worries me is if they get to the point when cash runs out, could purple pants not just gift them the cash to see them through?
If I had 40 mil and we needed it, i'd give and i'm sure most Hibbys would.

[CropleyWasGod]

What worries me is if they get to the point when cash runs out, could purple pants not just gift them the cash to see them through?
If I had 40 mil and we needed it, i'd give and i'm sure most Hibbys would.

See them through what?

One of the reasons she has so much cash is that she doesn't give it out to just any sick animal......:greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

You mean to say they lied where the money was going :confused:

Judging by subsequent admissions by Mr Fedotovas, that the original intended benefactors of the supporters largesse were actually a secondary consideration behind HMRC, then I'm afraid the answer to your question would have to be 'yes'....but they're used to that, so no harm done

[grammyb111]

Judging by subsequent admissions by Mr Fedotovas, that the original intended benefactors of the supporters largesse were actually a secondary consideration behind HMRC, then I'm afraid the answer to your question would have to be 'yes'....but they're used to that, so no harm done

So sad, such nice people as well, what did they do to deserve being treated so horribly...

[Waxy]

See them through what?

One of the reasons she has so much cash is that she doesn't give it out to just any sick animal......:greengrinSee them through to make ends meet. Though we'd need the hubble telescope to see where the next end is for them.

[Fat Penlon]

Wouldn't it be the dugs baws if they were liquidated on the day this thread reached page 1986. :-)

[Jack Hackett]

So sad, such nice people as well, what did they do to deserve being treated so horribly...

I'm afraid their naivety and gullibility marks them as targets to all sorts of devious and unscrupulous personages. It doesn't help that their general lack of intelligence clearly indicates that they are 'ripe for the picking'

Gormless MUGS, in other words :greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

What worries me is if they get to the point when cash runs out, could purple pants not just gift them the cash to see them through?
If I had 40 mil and we needed it, i'd give and i'm sure most Hibbys would.

It was stated some time back that she ain't got 40 mill........ Or have I got that wrong?.

Either way, she ain't about to throw it at them as far as I'm concerned :aok:

Would purple pants not be better just waiting in the wings to pick up the scraps, once it hits the fan?....

[greenginger]

If they release all players, they'd have to shut the doors. They aren't allowed to sign anyone.

The SPFL money is due at the end of the season. That could tide them over for a wee while, but I think the £535k football debt has to be deducted first.


What would happen in the event of a majority of their players refusing new contracts ?

I'm pretty sure most are up for renewal in the summer, don't tell me its going to even younger boys being exposed to health and safety risks next season.

[Ozyhibby]

Wouldn't it be the dugs baws if they were liquidated on the day this thread reached page 1986. :-)

19th May would be funny.

[Ozyhibby]

What would happen in the event of a majority of their players refusing new contracts ?

I'm pretty sure most are up for renewal in the summer, don't tell me its going to even younger boys being exposed to health and safety risks next season.

It's already in the rules that they can replace players that leave at the end of their contracts as long as the new player earns less and is approved by the SPFL.

[Leithenhibby]

Wouldn't it be the dugs baws if they were liquidated on the day this thread reached page 1986. :-)


19th May would be funny.

:greengrin Yeah, I'll go with 19th May.

[Seveno]

Wouldn't it be the dugs baws if they were liquidated on the day this thread reached page 1986. :-)

I'd go for the irony of page 1902. It would almost be as much fun as us winning the cup.

[jonny]

I'd go for the irony of page 1902. It would almost be as much fun as us winning the cup.

You've taken that too far :wink:

[GreenLake]

See them through to make ends meet. Though we'd need the hubble telescope to see where the next end is for them.

The yams must use the Hubble telescope backwards to view their situation over at bendback.

[lucky]

What worries me is if they get to the point when cash runs out, could purple pants not just gift them the cash to see them through?
If I had 40 mil and we needed it, i'd give and i'm sure most Hibbys would.

I think that's the reason why you'll never have £40m. We have enough problem getting fans to part with £380 for a ST

[Weststandwanab]

It was stated some time back that she ain't got 40 mill........ Or have I got that wrong?.

Either way, she ain't about to throw it at them as far as I'm concerned :aok:

Would purple pants not be better just waiting in the wings to pick up the scraps, once it hits the fan?.... She had circa £25m after tax, she will not throw it away and will probably pick it up debt free after the big L for relatively little.


19th May would be funny. Now that would be funny.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's the bit about the Lithuanian Court approval that goes right over the happy clappers heads over by, and has been systematically hidden in the small print of all the 'good news' press releases and emails from BDO, FoH and Anne Budge.

The 'rubber stamp' they are eagerly anticipating is strictly between 2/3 sets of administrators about transfer of the shares. When/if that finally happens, the real hurdle of getting Court approval awaits. This would entail more 'meetings' and court hearings at dates even further away than the still unscheduled UBIG meeting. I would fully expect those involved in the criminal investigation to oppose the transfer of the shares, and then to appeal any decision in BDO's favour should the transfer be approved.

The timescale for ALL of this to happen is not in hertz favour

Tick Tock

I don't think there are any left, just a few demented bams frothing on about 5-1 bitterness as they head for them rocks.

It's one of the few scenarios I've seen where ALL the news is as BLEAK AS IT CAN BE and the whichever way the cards fall is going to hurt really badly and for a long time.

If I were a Jamtard I'd be buying stocks of the 5-1 video, as the existing copies are going to be worn out to get them through the desperate times ahead.

[Crazyhorse]

I do like this old beauty from back in August:

1 HMFC Limited's bid will provide a new 25,000 capacity stadium as a valuable income generator for the Hearts over the next 30 years.
2 There is no need for fans to dip into their pockets.
3 The ownership will be in the hands of local Hearts supporters.
4 Hearts fans will be represented on the new BoD.
5 Tynecastle will be retained for posterity and developed like Highbury, retaining Hearts HQ, conference & exhibition facilities and museum etc in a newly modified main stand.
6 The three stands will be dismantled and sold to Knockhill Racing Circuit.
7 The ground will be tastefully developed into an open space with surrounding 'terracing' available for former fans ashes and a memorial fountain in the centre circle.
8 The funding will come from new money generated by the stadium.
9 Bob Jamieson has worked on this proposal for over two years.
10 He has also instructed three top QCs and an advocate at Ampersand to provide a report on the possibility of a successful application to join the English Championship. Their report was ready in May and the advice is that the application would be 99% successful

That is fantastic in the true sense of the word!

[Aldo]

It's actually quite funny cos the roasters on Brokeback think we or should I say CWG/Sergey and Bajillions are making this all up and it's a .net/hobo myth that we've made up.

But in reality it's what's actually happened/happening.

As someone mentioned the other day there is not a lot of positive vibes/spin coming out of the PBS with BJ/FOF and in particular from Banderson. In fact it's all gone quiet.

For you roasters looking in this is all pleasing.

Tick tick with every passing minute and hour of everyday you move a step closer to the big L.

[Kojock]

Oh it's all gone quiet over there, Oh it's all gone quiet over there, Oh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet, all gone quiet over there. FTH

[Jack]

What worries me is if they get to the point when cash runs out, could purple pants not just gift them the cash to see them through?
If I had 40 mil and we needed it, i'd give and i'm sure most Hibbys would.

The original figure quoted in the papers was £40m.

Just before they realised having a single owner with lots of dosh wouldn't go down well in Lithuania this popped up to £70m (probably Barry but I couldn't confirm that :-) before they started saying things like capital gain tax and whatnot from the original £40m left pauper Budgie with around £25m.

I hope this helps :-)

[MM19]

If they get liquidated does the PBS automatically go on the open market as this didn't happen with Ibrox (or did it)? As they seemed to get it and the training ground from about £2m or £4m

[Leithenhibby]

She had circa £25m after tax, she will not throw it away and will probably pick it up debt free after the big L for relatively little.

Now that would be funny.


I think most of us wouldn't begrudge her that one! :cb

[Ozyhibby]

If they get liquidated does the PBS automatically go on the open market as this didn't happen with Ibrox (or did it)? As they seemed to get it and the training ground from about £2m or £4m

It was a condition of the CVA offer that if it was turned down then the assets would transfer to Sevco 5088 for £5.5m

[CropleyWasGod]

If they get liquidated does the PBS automatically go on the open market as this didn't happen with Ibrox (or did it)? As they seemed to get it and the training ground from about £2m or £4m

Different situations.

With RFC the CVA had a Plan B in case it wasn't passed.

With HMFC there is no Plan B

[grunt]

It was a condition of the CVA offer that if it was turned down then the assets would transfer to Sevco 5088 for £5.5m
Which always seemed a highly dodgy agreement to me.

[MM19]

It was a condition of the CVA offer that if it was turned down then the assets would transfer to Sevco 5088 for £5.5m

Thanks I wondered how they had got the stadium etc for such a low amount and was a bit worried the yams could do the same with the PBS

[MM19]

Different situations.

With RFC the CVA had a Plan B in case it wasn't passed.

With HMFC there is no Plan B

Thanks it makes sense now just as well they haven't got a plan B

[Radium]

Kilmarnock Chairman has just been on Sportsound - they have wiped their debt out. Another straw evaporates ...

[budgiemcb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/25159932

This was BJ the day of the CVA meeting. Covers a bit about the ST's.

[hibees 7062]

:greengrin Yeah, I'll go with 19th May.

And post 2012

[Kato]

Different situations.

With RFC the CVA had a Plan B in case it wasn't passed.

With HMFC there is no Plan B

They can have a Plan C, and a plan D, E, F 'n G. They can have all the Plans they want, but they don't really have the CVA - so all their wee meetings and sub-committee meetings and voting reps onto advisory boards and showing off their latest cardigans at all those pathetic "createhistory" sub-divisional minute-taking sprees mean hee-haw. Nothing has really happened to take them anywhere near being safe.

[Kato]

Kilmarnock Chairman has just been on Sportsound - they have wiped their debt out. Another straw evaporates ...


"Aye, but - Killie are next then Hibs, Dundee Utd urny safe either. One o' thaim will get relegated no The Famous."

[God Petrie]

The jambos I speak to are talking about Rudi and Levein. It's going to make it even more delightful as the dream evaporates to leave them with even less than a manager universally regarded as a complete **** and a player who hasn't played football for 18 months.

[Weststandwanab]

It's actually quite funny cos the roasters on Brokeback think we or should I say CWG/Sergey and Bajillions are making this all up and it's a .net/hobo myth that we've made up.

But in reality it's what's actually happened/happening.

As someone mentioned the other day there is not a lot of positive vibes/spin coming out of the PBS with BJ/FOF and in particular from Banderson. In fact it's all gone quiet.

For you roasters looking in this is all pleasing.

Tick tick with every passing minute and hour of everyday you move a step closer to the big L.Some of us, from day 1, have always thought the big L would be the outcome and I still think so right now.

Hell even I was quoted once on that site.


Oh it's all gone quiet over there, Oh it's all gone quiet over there, Oh it's all gone quiet, all gone quiet, all gone quiet over there. FTH Ever wondered why ?


I think most of us wouldn't begrudge her that one! :cb Indeed, neither would I


Different situations.

With RFC the CVA had a Plan B in case it wasn't passed.

With HMFC there is no Plan B I am not sure there is a Plan A


Which always seemed a highly dodgy agreement to me. Duff and Duffer may still be taken to task over that.

[Aldo]

Some of us, from day 1, have always thought the big L would be the outcome and I still think so right now. Hell even I was quoted once on that site. Ever wondered why ? Indeed, neither would I I am not sure there is a Plan A Duff and Duffer may still be taken to task over that.

The big L has been my preferred option as well. Want them wiped out and playing in the lowest league possible.

[greenginger]

Gorgie Yam dump gets a make-over,


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-pub-robertson-s-becomes-family-restaurant-1-3340451

Pryde's...... it'll all end in tears. :greengrin

[Famous Fiver]

Just had a look at Kickback. Donations thread indicate a total of £15 donated today. That works out at £105 per week, just over 5 grand in a year. Not even enough to cover a nose job for Rudi............

TICK TOCK

[GreenLake]

Plan B consists of 5 tugs followed by 1 blurt

[Dashing Bob S]

The saddest thing for Hearts fans is that the more their misery grows as it becomes apparent that the club is sinking into oblivion, the more poisoned a chalice the memory of 5-1 becomes. It will soon come to symbolise (for them and Scottish football as a whole) the suicide of the club, rather than it's greatest triumph.

They really are writing an incredible story here, but it's very, very far from the one that Ian Murray/FOH/EEN are spinning them.

[Springbank]

Plan B consists of 5 tugs followed by 1 blurt

Why, that's quicker than a crooked Craig Thomson penalty decision / red card

[Hibernianinc]

If I understand things correctly.....

We're all waiting on a meeting.

If it happens, and everybody says 'aye', herts are happy and we're not a little hacked off.

If it doesny happen, herts get the biggest boot to their collective knackers, ever.

And so far, it hasny happened. Not even penciled in.

So, if we were to put this little ever so real scenario into football parlance, we're saying, Hibs are 1 nil up, against 10 man herts, with 5 mins to go???

Park the bus boys, park the bus. :cb

[Smiggy 7-0]

The big L has been my preferred option as well. Want them wiped out and playing in the lowest league possible. Me too or even just wiped out would be better

[Ozyhibby]

The saddest thing for Hearts fans is that the more their misery grows as it becomes apparent that the club is sinking into oblivion, the more poisoned a chalice the memory of 5-1 becomes. It will soon come to symbolise (for them and Scottish football as a whole) the suicide of the club, rather than it's greatest triumph.

They really are writing an incredible story here, but it's very, very far from the one that Ian Murray/FOH/EEN are spinning them.

5-1 becomes the tale of Icarus.
:-)

[grunt]

Park the bus boys, park the bus. :cb
Unfortunately we're not driving and its not our bus.

[weonlywon6-2]

The big L has been my preferred option as well. Want them wiped out and playing in the lowest league possible.

liquidation would just me the dugs danglies,how good a feeling would that be!!!

are we going to organise a hibs.net/bounce celebration drink if it does happen !!!

[stevejordan]

The saddest thing for Hearts fans is that the more their misery grows as it becomes apparent that the club is sinking into oblivion, the more poisoned a chalice the memory of 5-1 becomes. It will soon come to symbolise (for them and Scottish football as a whole) the suicide of the club, rather than it's greatest triumph.

They really are writing an incredible story here, but it's very, very far from the one that Ian Murray/FOH/EEN are spinning them.

even the diehards on brokeback have accepted defeat they tried to defy us and our super thread with their silly we thread of defiance its way down on page 2 now they have accepted defeat the pain that will follow will last for years

[weonlywon6-2]

The big L has been my preferred option as well. Want them wiped out and playing in the lowest league possible.

liquidation would just me the dugs danglies,how good a feeling would that be!!!

are we going to organise a hibs.net/bounce celebration drink if it does happen !!!

[CropleyWasGod]

If I understand things correctly.....

We're all waiting on a meeting.

If it happens, and everybody says 'aye', herts are happy and we're not a little hacked off.

If it doesny happen, herts get the biggest boot to their collective knackers, ever.

And so far, it hasny happened. Not even penciled in.

So, if we were to put this little ever so real scenario into football parlance, we're saying, Hibs are 1 nil up, against 10 man herts, with 5 mins to go???

Park the bus boys, park the bus. :cb

We're actually waiting on 3 meetings, so.......

Get the ba' intae the corners.

Oh no, wait, He'rts tried that,

[Mibbes Aye]

5-1 becomes the tale of Icarus.
:-)


Pyrrhus too :greengrin

Those ancient Greeks had Homfc sussed :agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

5-1 becomes the tale of Icarus.
:-)

Geek mythology. Shaun Lawson is already scripting for Hollywood.

[WeeWendy]

είναι νεκροί....

:flag:

[Dashing Bob S]

Unfortunately we're not driving and its not our bus.

They are driving the team coach and convoy of supporters buses over the cliff with accelerators they jammed on, steering wheels they've locked and brakes they've cut, all off their own free will.

Not so bright.

[GreenLake]

Geek mythology. Shaun Lawson is already scripting for Hollywood.

He will be writing the role of Iphigenia for himself and Agamemnon for the gassman. Dattenborough will be the old bitch Clytemnestra.

[Dashing Bob S]

He will be writing the role of Iphigenia for himself and Agamemnon for the gassman. Dattenborough will be the old bitch Clytemnestra.

:faf: There goes the beer on the keyboard...

[Ozyhibby]

He will be writing the role of Iphigenia for himself and Agamemnon for the gassman. Dattenborough will be the old bitch Clytemnestra.

It will take more than a sacrifice to get the good ship HOMFC sea worthy again.

[Springbank]

He will be writing the role of Iphigenia for himself and Agamemnon for the gassman. Dattenborough will be the old bitch Clytemnestra.

Its already happening ... it doesnt need to be scripted :

The Athens of the North, with a Greek tragedy to the West, starring David Southern.
the final act could yet take place at Easter Road (depending on post split fixtures)

[GreenLake]

Its already happening ... it doesnt need to be scripted :

The Athens of the North, with a Greek tragedy to the West, starring David Southern.
the final act could yet take place at Easter Road (depending on post split fixtures)

Jambo and the Maroon Fleece

[Aldo]

Kilmarnock Chairman has just been on Sportsound - they have wiped their debt out. Another straw evaporates ...

Can hear the cries from the roasters on Brokeback saying it's not fair etc and they can't do that.




The jambos I speak to are talking about Rudi and Levein. It's going to make it even more delightful as the dream evaporates to leave them with even less than a manager universally regarded as a complete **** and a player who hasn't played football for 18 months.

I am hoping they don't get that far and they are wiped from the face of this earth.



The saddest thing for Hearts fans is that the more their misery grows as it becomes apparent that the club is sinking into oblivion, the more poisoned a chalice the memory of 5-1 becomes. It will soon come to symbolise (for them and Scottish football as a whole) the suicide of the club, rather than it's greatest triumph. They really are writing an incredible story here, but it's very, very far from the one that Ian Murray/FOH/EEN are spinning them.

Brilliant absolutely brilliant. 19/05/12 is the day our club died ..... Accordingly to the roasters on Brokeback however it looks like it could of been the beginning of the end for them. Hardy har.





liquidation would just me the dugs danglies,how good a feeling would that be!!! are we going to organise a hibs.net/bounce celebration drink if it does happen !!!


Now that would be good.

[Ronniekirk]

Jambo and the Maroon Fleece

The lost city of Gorgie. They are just waiting on the Volcano Erupting and then the Tsunami Tidal Wave will follow and Wipe them off the Map leaving no Trace of that Lost Civilisation .In years to come Archeologists will unearth all these baking artefacts and wonder why this extinct tribe called the Jambos seemed to spend there last hours before extinction frantically baking Jam Tarts . :rolleyes:

[Col2]

News of Killie's new debt position is bringing out the best in them. John Mitchell aka one of the most bitter hurting jambos on kickback..

"Good news for another SPL club re the debt, that's Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Aberdeen (possibly), Motherwell, ICT, Ross Cty etc, all pretty much debt free, with us going down and starting again debt free....................and Hibs having crippling debts with no remedy on the horizon"

Crippling debt? That will be our £5m long term debt after completing ALL stadium and training infrastructure. Superb. And a debt free Hearts, again just priceless.

[matty_f]

News of Killie's new debt position is bringing out the best in them. John Mitchell aka one of the most bitter hurting jambos on kickback..

"Good news for another SPL club re the debt, that's Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Aberdeen (possibly), Motherwell, ICT, Ross Cty etc, all pretty much debt free, with us going down and starting again debt free....................and Hibs having crippling debts with no remedy on the horizon"

Crippling debt? That will be our £5m long term debt after completing ALL stadium and training infrastructure. Superb. And a debt free Hearts, again just priceless.

One of the many reasons I don't waste time on cutback anymore is that by and large, it's populated by morons who think a statement like that has some foundation in reality.

The whole forum is the Internet equivalent of The Office. A ridiculous and unconsciously hilarious parody of what a fans' forum is like in "real life".

[Aldo]

News of Killie's new debt position is bringing out the best in them. John Mitchell aka one of the most bitter hurting jambos on kickback.. "Good news for another SPL club re the debt, that's Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Aberdeen (possibly), Motherwell, ICT, Ross Cty etc, all pretty much debt free, with us going down and starting again debt free....................and Hibs having crippling debts with no remedy on the horizon" Crippling debt? That will be our £5m long term debt after completing ALL stadium and training infrastructure. Superb. And a debt free Hearts, again just priceless.


That's quite funny tbh Col. Still grasping at the ....the Hobo's are in masses of debt and cannot get out of it.......

Even if we had 7 million it's being paid on time every month as is all our bills.

The deluded roasters will do anything to deflect from their shenanigans.

Big L on it's way I hope.

[GreenCastle]

News of Killie's new debt position is bringing out the best in them. John Mitchell aka one of the most bitter hurting jambos on kickback..

"Good news for another SPL club re the debt, that's Dundee Utd, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Aberdeen (possibly), Motherwell, ICT, Ross Cty etc, all pretty much debt free, with us going down and starting again debt free....................and Hibs having crippling debts with no remedy on the horizon"

Crippling debt? That will be our £5m long term debt after completing ALL stadium and training infrastructure. Superb. And a debt free Hearts, again just priceless.

1 - The yams won't be fan owned - Budge will be in control - Biggest (size matters to them once more) ever supporter movement :blah::faf:

2 - Debt free ? No they will be taking on another debt - having to pay it back in the next few years (one debt to another - who will bail them out next time?)

3 - Just over 2 weeks left in March...tick tock..

[Tynie01011973]

1 - The yams won't be fan owned - Budge will be in control - Biggest (size matters to them once more) ever supporter movement :blah::faf:

2 - Debt free ? No they will be taking on another debt - having to pay it back in the next few years (one debt to another - who will bail them out next time?)

3 - Just over 2 weeks left in March...tick tock..

They don't seem to understand that tbh.

They will inherit a £2.5m debt to Budgie if the CVA goes through, plus FOH are committed to paying in £1m of the muppets money in the first year to pay off the footballing debts of £540k approx + pay running costs,

#CreateHistory

:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

FoH must hand over £6.3m before they get control of Hearts.
Hardly debt free.

[lapsedhibee]

And a debt free Hearts, again just priceless.


Debt free ? No they will be taking on another debt - having to pay it back in the next few years


They will inherit a £2.5m debt to Budgie if the CVA goes through, plus FOH are committed to paying in £1m of the muppets money in the first year to pay off the footballing debts of £540k approx + pay running costs,


They will be debt free though, won't they, as Mrs Budge is a Hearts supporter so any money they technically "owe" will be to one of their own - so it's not really a debt, is it?

[Eyrie]

The scenario above are only relevant if the shares are unfrozen.

If it's liquidation, then Save Hearts In Trouble will be able to pick up the football licence for the new Sevco Yams franchise for pennies themselves rather than owing Budge £2.5m for the purchase. They will however still have the football debt and more importantly won't have the PBS any more, leaving them homeless.

Either prospect is something to look forward to.