Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[rcarter1]

As I've said before, it's not the CVA that is the main issue. Leaving aside the matter of the frozen shares, the most important part is satisfying the secured creditor(s).

If I understand correctly, the secured creditor will in effect be the Lithuanian administrators of UKIO (and UBIG?). Sounds like Hearts (or their new prospective owners) just need to sit tight, and they will be fine. The administrators will surely have to accept any rubbishy offer if they have no other offers.
I no longer see how liquidation is likely, unless a 'hostile' bidder comes in which again seems less and less likely with each day.

[Mellow Hibee]

If I understand correctly, the secured creditor will in effect be the Lithuanian administrators of UKIO (and UBIG?). Sounds like Hearts (or their new prospective owners) just need to sit tight, and they will be fine. The administrators will surely have to accept any rubbishy offer if they have no other offers.
I no longer see how liquidation is likely, unless a 'hostile' bidder comes in which again seems less and less likely with each day.

Surely the offers recieved now are on the basis of the club remaining a going concern. If they're not good enough then the administrator can chose to liquidate and accept offers for the assets individually?

My hope is that the UBIG mess holds it all up too long though.

[CropleyWasGod]

If I understand correctly, the secured creditor will in effect be the Lithuanian administrators of UKIO (and UBIG?). Sounds like Hearts (or their new prospective owners) just need to sit tight, and they will be fine. The administrators will surely have to accept any rubbishy offer if they have no other offers.
I no longer see how liquidation is likely, unless a 'hostile' bidder comes in which again seems less and less likely with each day.

The offer will be a combination of £x for the secured creditor(s) and £y for the CVA. Even if the unsecureds accept the offer, the secureds aren't bound by that. They can reject it, and there is no sale. In that scenario, the secureds will pick up what they can from a liquidation.

[rcarter1]

Surely the offers recieved now are on the basis of the club remaining a going concern. If they're not good enough then the administrator can chose to liquidate and accept offers for the assets individually?

My hope is that the UBIG mess holds it all up too long though.

I am presuming that at least one of the offers (or a joint offer), will be enough to tide Hearts over for the season. The amount needed to pay off the Lithuanian administrators for the remaining share of Hearts would then be a nominal fee - unless there were other 'hostile' interested parties.

Where is Wallace Mercers Good twin brother when you need him? :greengrin

[Springbank]

I would be happiest with the following scenario:

Hearts & tynecastle are separated

Tynecastle sold off (to give the ordinary Lithuanian in the street their cash for teachers, police, nurses, fire fighters etc that jonny jambo denied them)

FoH take over

Let the splits commence and the infighting begin as the football fare plummets in quality and hearts play out of livingston

[Mellow Hibee]

The offer will be a combination of £x for the secured creditor(s) and £y for the CVA. Even if the unsecureds accept the offer, the secureds aren't bound by that. They can reject it, and there is no sale. In that scenario, the secureds will pick up what they can from a liquidation.

So given that the offer won't be enough to cover the secured debt, then there would be no reason for secured creditors to accept anything going to unsecured creditors when they could get the lot?

[rcarter1]

The offer will be a combination of £x for the secured creditor(s) and £y for the CVA. Even if the unsecureds accept the offer, the secureds aren't bound by that. They can reject it, and there is no sale. In that scenario, the secureds will pick up what they can from a liquidation.

Fair enough. But unless the secured creditors know they will get a good offer elsewhere, surely they will accept a pretty low offer from the 'Hearts' bidders. Im really wondering whether there will be any interest from non football parties, and if so how much they would be willing to pay.

[Mellow Hibee]

Fair enough. But unless the secured creditors know they will get a good offer elsewhere, surely they will accept a pretty low offer from the 'Hearts' bidders. Im really wondering whether there will be any interest from non football parties, and if so how much they would be willing to pay.

Well FoH valuation of Tynecastle was £5.5M, but I'm not sure if that valuation was based on any assumptions about what it was used for/planning permission, etc. If the highest bid is say £3m then UKIO would surely knock it back and then we would see genuine versions of the FT advert aimed at developers, etc.

[jgl07]

Fair enough. But unless the secured creditors know they will get a good offer elsewhere, surely they will accept a pretty low offer from the 'Hearts' bidders. Im really wondering whether there will be any interest from non football parties, and if so how much they would be willing to pay.

Any offer must be sufficient to satify the following:

1. The cash required by the secured creditors (£6.8 million?).

2. That required to make a token payment to the unsecured creditors.

3. That needed to pay BDOs fees.

I cannot see any consortium coming up with that sort of money and having enpough working capital to keep the club running especially with relegation seeming a likelihood.

With the housing market starting to recover in the South, maybe a improvement in the economic climate will follow in Edinburgh. If Cala were willing to pay £20 million in 2004 then surely £10 million should be obtainable.

[rcarter1]

Well FoH valuation of Tynecastle was £5.5M, but I'm not sure if that valuation was based on any assumptions about what it was used for/planning permission, etc. If the highest bid is say £3m then UKIO would surely knock it back and then we would see genuine versions of the FT advert aimed at developers, etc.

You're giving me some hope now.. If Hearts scrape through then fair enough, but at the very least they should be kept honest by the good old free market.

Is it worth sending an add around the world to muster some interest? :devil:

[rcarter1]

Any offer must be sufficient to satify the following:

1. The cash required by the secured creditors (£6.8 million?).

2. That required to make a token payment to the unsecured creditors.

3. That needed to pay BDOs fees.

I cannot see any consortium coming up with that sort of money and having enpough working capital to keep the club running especially with relegation seeming a likelihood.

With the housing market starting to recover in the South, maybe a improvement in the economic climate will follow in Edinburgh. If Cala were willing to pay £20 million in 2004 then surely £10 million should be obtainable.

Its the bit in bold Im concerned about. The secured creditors could hold out for £6.8 million, but if they think that £1million is all they will get then they would presumably take it.

[Mellow Hibee]

You're giving me some hope now.. If Hearts scrape through then fair enough, but at the very least they should be kept honest by the good old free market.

Is it worth sending an add around the world to muster some interest? :devil:

I'm not sure if it would be worth it or not for a developer TBH. They'd have to be getting a bargain which would reduce what they can pay. On the other hand a hearts consortium will pay more in the knowledge that the yams will probably continue to hand over everything they can. But then they would need a few million to get to the end of the season and a few million more to get out of the 1st div next season. And many more million to sort out the stadium.

[rcarter1]

I'm not sure if it would be worth it or not for a developer TBH. They'd have to be getting a bargain which would reduce what they can pay. On the other hand a hearts consortium will pay more in the knowledge that the yams will probably continue to hand over everything they can. But then they would need a few million to get to the end of the season and a few million more to get out of the 1st div next season. And many more million to sort out the stadium.

Thats my concern, but the rest of your post paints a more cheerful picture. I forgot that Tynecastle is falling down.

[Hibeesforever]

Thats my concern, but the rest of your post paints a more cheerful picture. I forgot that Tynecastle is falling down.

It is so tragic for the broken Hearts, just when it seems a successful outcome might be possible their hopes are dashed. The main stand is a symbol and reminder to them just how poorly managed their big club has been. It may have looked good in 1973 but today is an expression of their collective incompetence.

[Springbank]

I wouldn't overestimate how developers give a flying fxxk about local sentiment

If it turns a profit over a given period of time they'll cook that goose

[Mellow Hibee]

I wouldn't overestimate how developers give a flying fxxk about local sentiment

If it turns a profit over a given period of time they'll cook that goose

Aye but if the land is worth £5m, they're not going to offer any more than that, probably less.

[jgl07]

Its the bit in bold Im concerned about. The secured creditors could hold out for £6.8 million, but if they think that £1million is all they will get then they would presumably take it.

They would take a higher offer from a developer that would surely come.

It is not the same situation as Rangers. Ibrox was in a dodgy area with low land prices and Murray Park could not be developed because of conditions attached to the land.

Planning permission for housing at Tynecastle has already been granted.

[jacomo]

They would take a higher offer from a developer that would surely come.

It is not the same situation as Rangers. Ibrox was in a dodgy area with low land prices and Murray Park could not be developed because of conditions attached to the land.

Planning permission for housing at Tynecastle has already been granted.

Ibrox is also listed, is it not? Or at least one stand is. Arsenal redeveloped Highbury into flats incorporating the listed stand, but property prices in North London made the whole enterprise worthwhile.

[Emerald]

Ibrox is also listed, is it not? Or at least one stand is. Arsenal redeveloped Highbury into flats incorporating the listed stand, but property prices in North London made the whole enterprise worthwhile.

But I though the main stand at the PBS was listing too :greengrin

[Kato]

It may have looked good in 1973....


It didn't. It looked like a kahsi, and it smelled like one too (not joking).

[jgl07]

But I though the main stand at the PBS was listing too :greengrin

It is not shown on the City Council map of listed buildings:

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/194/conservation_areas/692/conservation_areas/3

[The Green Goblin]

It is not shown on the City Council map of listed buildings:

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/194/conservation_areas/692/conservation_areas/3

Have you tried the World Wildlife Fund map of endangered species?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It is not shown on the City Council map of listed buildings:

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/194/conservation_areas/692/conservation_areas/3

Whoosh! :-)

[HibeeMG]

Whoosh! :-)

I'm 'leaning' towards that conclusion also. :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

All the talk above about development is theoretical. It won't happen unless the efforts to continue Hearts as a football club (either by CVA or newco) fail completely. The only effect that the land value of the PBS has is to effectively act as a floor for any offers for it as a football club. If the offers all fall well short of the land value, then the Lithuanians have that option.

....

McKie group will not bid by itself because BDO honoured the season book sales pre-administration. "3 or 4" just became "2 or 3".

Seems like they are/were willing to put up some capital to buy the club but were not willing to take any risk in terms of funding losses / cash shortfalls in the near future.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/mckie-keen-to-strike-deal-with-foh.21530843



The consortium led by Gordon McKie will only maintain its interest in buying Hearts if they can agree a partnership with Foundation of Hearts, the coalition of supporters' groups. Confirmation from BDO, the administrators, that season-ticket sales will be honoured, leaving the new owners with a working capital shortfall of around £1m, means that McKie's group have decided to either proceed as part of a joint bid or withdraw their interest.

FoH held a board meeting last night to discuss their options, having been involved in discussions with McKie, the former Scottish Rugby Union chief executive, during the week. They also have an offer in principle from another interested party, and the likelihood is that the fans' group will select a partner in the coming days. That joint bid would then be the most likely to succeed after all the offers are submitted to BDO by next Friday's deadline.

McKie and his financial backers – a mixture of Edinburgh and London-based businessmen – still believe that Heart of Midlothian plc can emerge from administration through a Company Voluntary Arrangement. They had hoped to achieve this before the end of August, but Trevor Birch, of BDO, admitted last week that the process could drag on for several months. One of Hearts' creditors and major shareholders, Ukio Bankas, is in administration, while the other, UBIG, is on the verge of insolvency.

"We said at the start that we wanted a CVA and to then break even, because we thought we would get the benefit of season-ticket sales by treating the bank and credit card companies that forwarded the money to Hearts as ordinary creditors," McKie said. "But BDO are on record as saying that the season tickets will be honoured, so the cash won't be available to the new owner. The investment level has increased and the only way we are prepared to proceed is in partnership with somebody, and ideally that would be with the Foundation of Hearts. We never intended to compete with them. It's possible they want to go it alone, and that's fine, there are no sour grapes on our part and we hope to see Hearts restored to order."

[Moulin Yarns]

They would take a higher offer from a developer that would surely come.

It is not the same situation as Rangers. Ibrox was in a dodgy area with low land prices and Murray Park could not be developed because of conditions attached to the land.

Planning permission for housing at Tynecastle has already been granted.

There was never any Planning Application submitted to City of Edinburgh Council to build houses on Tynecastle. I don't doubt that discussions took place between CEC and Cala, but nothing more. That is not to say any application would not be looked upon favourably, as regeneration of a run down and depressed area of the city would always be looked at as an improvement, especially if the Cooncil didn't have to pay for it, and there would be lots of gain for the Cooncil with developer contributions to education, affordable housing etc.

[Treadstone]

All the talk above about development is theoretical. It won't happen unless the efforts to continue Hearts as a football club (either by CVA or newco) fail completely. The only effect that the land value of the PBS has is to effectively act as a floor for any offers for it as a football club. If the offers all fall well short of the land value, then the Lithuanians have that option.

....

McKie group will not bid by itself because BDO honoured the season book sales pre-administration. "3 or 4" just became "2 or 3".

Seems like they are/were willing to put up some capital to buy the club but were not willing to take any risk in terms of funding losses / cash shortfalls in the near future.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/mckie-keen-to-strike-deal-with-foh.21530843

I always thought that some bidder would try and use FoH in some way. Try and buy the club and use the 'pledgers' as an assist to working capital. £50k a month from FoH is £50k that a bidder doesn't need to find from themselves.

Cue Murray & Mackie (he has been a bit quiet recently) et al getting ideas above their station. Power struggle methinks if this 'marriage' ever get their hands on HoMFC.

[Cluny Hibs]

I've never understood how FoH funds could be used to structure a bid for the club. Their money is based on goodwill that could disappear at any time by contributors simply cancelling their direct debits.
By appeasing the fans re ST's (understandable as they're the only source of income) BDO are making the club less attractive to potential buyers, surely this can only end one way and that's a newco.

[GloryGlory]

I always thought that some bidder would try and use FoH in some way. Try and buy the club and use the 'pledgers' as an assist to working capital. £50k a month from FoH is £50k that a bidder doesn't need to find from themselves.

Cue Murray & Mackie (he has been a bit quiet recently) et al getting ideas above their station. Power struggle methinks if this 'marriage' ever get their hands on HoMFC.

:agree: Whoever buys the club will essentially have all the equity, whilst holding the FoH to ransom. FoH pledgers will have to commit cash, probably long term, to the club to keep it going, in return for what? Will they have shares? Unlikely. Will they be able to vote at an AGM? No. Will they have any say in anything at all? No. Will they ever get back their "investment"? No. Will Hearts win the Champions' League with their team of World Cup stars, fans filling their £60M new stand at every game? No.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:agree: Whoever buys the club will essentially have all the equity, whilst holding the FoH to ransom. FoH pledgers will have to commit cash, probably long term, to the club to keep it going, in return for what? Will they have shares? Unlikely. Will they be able to vote at an AGM? No. Will they have any say in anything at all? No. Will they ever get back their "investment"? No. Will Hearts win the Champions' League with their team of World Cup stars, fans filling their £60M new stand at every game? No.

Surely the power struggle is what benefits are to their other business interests - development etc? Plus a word in the shell-like of greatful yams (politicians, comedians, washed up sports stars - mainly just comedians) for saving their club.

[Treadstone]

:agree: Whoever buys the club will essentially have all the equity, whilst holding the FoH to ransom. FoH pledgers will have to commit cash, probably long term, to the club to keep it going, in return for what? Will they have shares? Unlikely. Will they be able to vote at an AGM? No. Will they have any say in anything at all? No. Will they ever get back their "investment"? No. Will Hearts win the Champions' League with their team of World Cup stars, fans filling their £60M new stand at every game? No.
:agree:
FoH will find themselves trotted out when their is a community aspect to anything HoMFC do.
FoH could find themselves as footballs 'Lib Dems' - no chance of power on their own but catapulted to 'Kingmakers' by virtue of pledges.

[sidneyhibbie]

Newco http://videocelts.com/2013/07/blogs/latest-news/hearts-prepare-for-newco-route

[God Petrie]

So FOH are basically their only option now? lol

[God Petrie]

Newco http://videocelts.com/2013/07/blogs/latest-news/hearts-prepare-for-newco-route

That articles a bit bizarre due to the Celtic slant on it. Open the door for Killie and Aberdeen to newco too? Really?

Their weird ability to perceive themselves as victims is getting worse.

[Moulin Yarns]

Newco http://videocelts.com/2013/07/blogs/latest-news/hearts-prepare-for-newco-route

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyVZFJGX5g

:greengrin

[Treadstone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyVZFJGX5g

:greengrin

:agree:

RanTic can turn anything into an Old Firm bun fight.

[sidneyhibbie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyVZFJGX5g

:greengrin

1st comment on that article sums it up.

I said all along that the Sevco “newco” route set a precedent for others to follow. In Hearts case they still need to find a corrupt administrator who will sell Tynecastle off on the cheap to the “newco” thereby not acting in the interest of the creditors as they are legally bound to do, but once again, since Duff & Phelps set a precedent to act out with the law, it is obvious other teams will follow suit. It could be argued Scotland is the most corrupt fraudulent football federation on the planet, but when teams fail to pay millions of pounds worth of bills and get away with it by merely declaring themselves a “newco” with the same name, badge, strip etc. Scotland’s football federation will be seen clearly in the eyes of the world for what they truly are.

[CropleyWasGod]

1st comment on that article sums it up.

I said all along that the Sevco “newco” route set a precedent for others to follow. In Hearts case they still need to find a corrupt administrator who will sell Tynecastle off on the cheap to the “newco” thereby not acting in the interest of the creditors as they are legally bound to do, but once again, since Duff & Phelps set a precedent to act out with the law, it is obvious other teams will follow suit. It could be argued Scotland is the most corrupt fraudulent football federation on the planet, but when teams fail to pay millions of pounds worth of bills and get away with it by merely declaring themselves a “newco” with the same name, badge, strip etc. Scotland’s football federation will be seen clearly in the eyes of the world for what they truly are.

Didn't you already say that BDO are corrupt, though?

[Craig_in_Prague]

So FOH are basically their only option now? lol

who are 2000 short on what they wanted in pledges?

Allisbarry

[Dunderhall]

I've never understood how FoH funds could be used to structure a bid for the club. Their money is based on goodwill that could disappear at any time by contributors simply cancelling their direct debits.
By appeasing the fans re ST's (understandable as they're the only source of income) BDO are making the club less attractive to potential buyers, surely this can only end one way and that's a newco.

It was never a goer from day 1 as they simply wouldn't have had the capital up front to make a bid.
Yesterday they announced they now had two sources of funds, pledge now etc.
From what's being said now it looks like these two sources are two of the other bids and they'll pick one.

So the FoH pledgers don't even know who they are getting into bed with and will have overall control of the club.
Transparency my ****, just more smoke and mirrors.

Not complaining mind.

[dangermouse]

Question: Why is 12th July being referred to as the glorious 12th? Is it because this is the deadline for bids for HoMoFC or has the grouse season been brought forward a month? :confused:

[CB_NO3]

Question: Why is 12th July being referred to as the glorious 12th? Is it because this is the deadline for bids for HoMoFC or has the grouse season been brought forward a month? :confused:

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F

12th July, maybe so this mob can march along Gorgie Road and have a party. Haha

[green glory]

Question: Why is 12th July being referred to as the glorious 12th? Is it because this is the deadline for bids for HoMoFC or has the grouse season been brought forward a month? :confused:

The glorious 12th refers to the 12th August which is the start of Grouse shooting season.

Also my wedding anniversary. Coincidentally 12 years this year.

[Bostonhibby]

:agree:
FoH will find themselves trotted out when their is a community aspect to anything HoMFC do.
FoH could find themselves as footballs 'Lib Dems' - no chance of power on their own but catapulted to 'Kingmakers' by virtue of pledges.

Very good analogy :agree: but surely you mean the Monster Raving Loonies, or Monty Pythons' Extremely Silly Party? The FOH front man fits perfectly as leader of both. :greengrin

[#FromTheCapital]

**** the hearts...

That is all

[Treadstone]

**** the hearts...

That is all
:faf:
Informative and to the point.

[Part/Time Supporter]

FOH say they are minded to reject the proposal from McKie to join forces and will instead use their other source of funding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23194475

[Glory Lurker]

There was never any Planning Application submitted to City of Edinburgh Council to build houses on Tynecastle. I don't doubt that discussions took place between CEC and Cala, but nothing more. That is not to say any application would not be looked upon favourably, as regeneration of a run down and depressed area of the city would always be looked at as an improvement, especially if the Cooncil didn't have to pay for it, and there would be lots of gain for the Cooncil with developer contributions to education, affordable housing etc.


I don't know what the Planning Department would make of an application for development, but even if it's something they would work with I think it's what happens at the stage before any application is made that we should be looking at. My feeling is that (assuming a CVA doesn't work out) the odds are the future is Newcohmfc playing at Tynecastle.

Even if there was a developer with an interest in the site, there is no way they would be willing to stump up their full price until they got planning permission for their proposed development. Any offer they made to buy the place would therefore be pre-conditional on them getting planning, which naturally puts a question mark over whether there would ever be a final deal with that developer (even if (and again, I don't know) the proposed scheme is something the Planning Department would look at). If Newcohmfc was to offer a price not a million miles off that developer's figure then that might be more attractive as it (presumably) would have less strings attached.

Of course, all of this is based on there actually ever being an offer from an interested developer. There is no certainty of this whatsoever. What is absolutely certain just now is either that (1) there will be a CVA or (2) if not, there will be a Newcohmfc desperate to keep the team at Tynecastle. Both keep football at Tynecastle.

[Treadstone]

FOH say they are minded to reject the proposal from McKie to join forces and will instead use their other source of funding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23194475

FoH playing a good hand here. Telling McKie "we have a better offer, any advance on yours ?"

Still think they could get burned though.

[Hibbyradge]

Even if there was a developer with an interest in the site, there is no way they would be willing to stump up their full price until they got planning permission for their proposed development.

Cala were ready to pay £20.5m for the land only 9 years ago.

[Glory Lurker]

Cala were ready to pay £20.5m for the land only 9 years ago.

I'm not saying no developer will be interested. I just think it is far from a given that one coming on the scene would mean game over for Tynecastle.

Re Cala: I didn't follow this in detail at the time as it was obvious Vlad would not go with Murrayfield, but I would be beyond astounded if Cala would have handed over a price without first getting planning permission.

[dangermouse]

The glorious 12th refers to the 12th August which is the start of Grouse shooting season.

Also my wedding anniversary. Coincidentally 12 years this year.

I knew that. Happy Anniversary when it comes. I was 20 years in April. Murderers get less :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

I'm not saying no developer will be interested. I just think it is far from a given that one coming on the scene would mean game over for Tynecastle.

Re Cala: I didn't follow this in detail at the time as it was obvious Vlad would not go with Murrayfield, but I would be beyond astounded if Cala would have handed over a price without first getting planning permission.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/3656082.stm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/tynecastle-awaits-the-bulldozers-anger-as-hearts-agree-pounds-22m-deal-with-house-builders-cala-1.77698

[JeMeSouviens]

Cala were ready to pay £20.5m for the land only 9 years ago.

The £20.5M was with a ton of conditions attached relating to getting planning for a certain density of housing. I think that figure was right at the top end and it was generally assumed a few million would be knocked off by the time Hearts actually got any money.

FoH's (allegedly) independent valuations for Tiny were £5.6M in use as a football stadium, £6M as a development site.

[Hibbyradge]

The £20.5M was with a ton of conditions attached relating to getting planning for a certain density of housing. I think that figure was right at the top end and it was generally assumed a few million would be knocked off by the time Hearts actually got any money.

FoH's (allegedly) independent valuations for Tiny were £5.6M in use as a football stadium, £6M as a development site.

My point is that developers were prepared to buy the land 9 years ago despite a lack of planning permission.

FWIW, I think FOH's valuation is deliberately low, understandably so.

[Heisenberg]

@edinburghsport: We have learned that the consortium looking to buy Hearts, being led by Gordon McKie, will not now bid. More soon on http://t.co/4RQNn1YqDM

[Treadstone]

My point is that developers were prepared to buy the land 9 years ago despite a lack of planning permission.

FWIW, I think FOH's valuation is deliberately low, understandably so.

And still miles above anything they could realistically offer.

[Glory Lurker]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/3656082.stm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/tynecastle-awaits-the-bulldozers-anger-as-hearts-agree-pounds-22m-deal-with-house-builders-cala-1.77698


Thanks. I am totally comfortable that Cala's offer would have been conditional on getting planning first before it all happened. There's no way they would have offered a deal whereby they could have ended up massively out of pocket as landlords of a football stadium.

[steakbake]

@edinburghsport: We have learned that the consortium looking to buy Hearts, being led by Gordon McKie, will not now bid. More soon on http://t.co/4RQNn1YqDM

Oh no...! :rolleyes:

Yasss! First post on 7...yes, 7-0

[green glory]

@edinburghsport: We have learned that the consortium looking to buy Hearts, being led by Gordon McKie, will not now bid. More soon on http://t.co/4RQNn1YqDM

All the places are starting to fall into... erm... apart.

[JeMeSouviens]

1st comment on that article sums it up.

I said all along that the Sevco “newco” route set a precedent for others to follow. In Hearts case they still need to find a corrupt administrator who will sell Tynecastle off on the cheap to the “newco” thereby not acting in the interest of the creditors as they are legally bound to do, but once again, since Duff & Phelps set a precedent to act out with the law, it is obvious other teams will follow suit. It could be argued Scotland is the most corrupt fraudulent football federation on the planet, but when teams fail to pay millions of pounds worth of bills and get away with it by merely declaring themselves a “newco” with the same name, badge, strip etc. Scotland’s football federation will be seen clearly in the eyes of the world for what they truly are.

How are they going to manage that when BDO were appointed at the behest of UAB Valnetas, the firm handling the liquidation of Ukio Bankas?

[Dunderhall]

@edinburghsport: We have learned that the consortium looking to buy Hearts, being led by Gordon McKie, will not now bid. More soon on http://t.co/4RQNn1YqDM
FoH have dropped them as a possible partner, going with their other source of capital.
McKie admitted they couldn't bid on their own.

[McSwanky]

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/8713639.jpg

Aw naw. Phil Mitchell's on board. Now I'm worried.

Edit: Dave McPherson suddenly looks handsome to me, the theory of relativity may apply here...

[Lester B]

Thanks. I am totally comfortable that Cala's offer would have been conditional on getting planning first before it all happened. There's no way they would have offered a deal whereby they could have ended up massively out of pocket as landlords of a football stadium.

I understand that there were a number of conditions attached to the Cala offer and that they withdrew eventually because it was too complex. They certainly weren't out of pocket at any point in this as Hearts paid all their costs for feasibility study, surveys etc. They were adept at wasting money pre Vlad too!

[kdhibees1]

http://img571.imageshack.us/edit_preview.php?l=img571/1220/equ3.jpg&action=rotate

[God Petrie]

E=MC^2

Ersehole = Mulleted Clown^2

I always had a soft spot for Macpherson after his OG in the final. Remember I was about 10 and everyone going mental when he scored but also laughing cos that donkey had scored such a comical OG.

[sidneyhibbie]

Asbestos stand is included in the sale. :na na: http://www.fcbusiness.co.uk/news/article/newsitem=2513/title=administrators+put+hearts+on+business+for+sa le+website

[CropleyWasGod]

I understand that there were a number of conditions attached to the Cala offer and that they withdrew eventually because it was too complex. They certainly weren't out of pocket at any point in this as Hearts paid all their costs for feasibility study, surveys etc. They were adept at wasting money pre Vlad too!

It was Hearts that withdrew, shortly after Vlad took over.

[Smidge]

Regarding the valuation of the PBS for development purposes. There seems to be some confusion about how these things work.

Until the end of 2011 I was fairly active in and around the property and housebuilding sectors in Scotland and I attended a number of seminars about the impact of the recession on land values. Essentially, if the headline value of the developed property drops, which is what happened from 2007-2011 (broadly speaking, house values have shown signs of recovery since then), then it is the underlying land value that will drop. The bits inbetween: developer's margin, construction and marketing costs - these did not change. This then has a disproportionate impact on the the land values.

For example...

If I was looking to buy a large site in west central Edinburgh pre-2007 to construct 400 flats, perhaps what I was willing to pay would be in the region of £20m. I would have been assuming that the average sales price would be in the region of £200k (based on what nearby flatted developments were going for at the time). That is an assumed total revenue of £80m. The developer's profit margin would be in the region of 15-20%, lets say £15m. Construction and marketing costs would then be in £80m-£15m-£20m = £45m.

Now, if the average sales price dropped to £170k (15% reduction), total revenue would be in the region of £68m. Because of the risk and uncertainty of the current market, I would would want to maintain the same level of profit margin, i.e. £15m, and the construction/marketing costs are the same at £45m.

Therefore, what I would be prepared to pay for the land is £68m-£15m-£45m = £8m. The sales value has dropped 15%, but the land value has dropped 60%.

All of these figures are educated guesses, but the principal is the same. What Cala were willing to pay in 2004 is totally nonsensical. From the £8m figure, I would expect any developer would deducted a good whack for the speculative nature, i.e. pre-planning, and taking account of the PR issues. They would need to hold the land for a few years for the bad PR to blow over probably.

Just realised that I have omitted finance costs, which have of course gone UP since 2004, particularly in the housebuilding sector. Big housebuilding companies used to get margins of c1% over LIBOR, now they'll be lucky to get under 3% over LIBOR.

All in all, I reckon a land valuation for development would be maximum £5m, so I reckon this will be the target for any buyer to satisfy the Liths.

[jgl07]

I don't know what the Planning Department would make of an application for development, but even if it's something they would work with I think it's what happens at the stage before any application is made that we should be looking at. My feeling is that (assuming a CVA doesn't work out) the odds are the future is Newcohmfc playing at Tynecastle.

Even if there was a developer with an interest in the site, there is no way they would be willing to stump up their full price until they got planning permission for their proposed development. Any offer they made to buy the place would therefore be pre-conditional on them getting planning, which naturally puts a question mark over whether there would ever be a final deal with that developer (even if (and again, I don't know) the proposed scheme is something the Planning Department would look at). If Newcohmfc was to offer a price not a million miles off that developer's figure then that might be more attractive as it (presumably) would have less strings attached.


I do not believe that Cala would have agreed to pay £20 million for Tynecastle unless there was at least a 'nod and a wink' from the City Councilo regarding planning permission being granted.

If you look, the stadium is in a predominantly residential area. I cannot see how there could be good planning reasons to reject housing for the site. Any refusal would surely fail on appeal. The stadium is the non-conforming use, if anything, for that area. The issue of the 'industrial' stuff behind the stadium is not likely to be an issue as a new Tynecastle School has recently been built in the area and this would not have taken place if there was any danger.

The City Council will be keen to develop the site for the old Tynecastle School (that Hearts had agreed to buy at one stage) and the two sites would make for good development possibilities. The disused School buildings are costing the City Council a fortune to maintain.

A developer might be prepared to take a punt on Tynecastle on the assumption that they would get planning permission eventually. They could let it to the Newco in the meantime.

[Stevie Reid]

Regarding the valuation of the PBS for development purposes. There seems to be some confusion about how these things work.

Until the end of 2011 I was fairly active in and around the property and housebuilding sectors in Scotland and I attended a number of seminars about the impact of the recession on land values. Essentially, if the headline value of the developed property drops, which is what happened from 2007-2011 (broadly speaking, house values have shown signs of recovery since then), then it is the underlying land value that will drop. The bits inbetween: developer's margin, construction and marketing costs - these did not change. This then has a disproportionate impact on the the land values.

For example...

If I was looking to buy a large site in west central Edinburgh pre-2007 to construct 400 flats, perhaps what I was willing to pay would be in the region of £20m. I would have been assuming that the average sales price would be in the region of £200k (based on what nearby flatted developments were going for at the time). That is an assumed total revenue of £80m. The developer's profit margin would be in the region of 15-20%, lets say £15m. Construction and marketing costs would then be in £80m-£15m-£20m = £45m.

Now, if the average sales price dropped to £170k (15% reduction), total revenue would be in the region of £68m. Because of the risk and uncertainty of the current market, I would would want to maintain the same level of profit margin, i.e. £15m, and the construction/marketing costs are the same at £45m.

Therefore, what I would be prepared to pay for the land is £68m-£15m-£45m = £8m. The sales value has dropped 15%, but the land value has dropped 60%.

All of these figures are educated guesses, but the principal is the same. What Cala were willing to pay in 2004 is totally nonsensical. From the £8m figure, I would expect any developer would deducted a good whack for the speculative nature, i.e. pre-planning, and taking account of the PR issues. They would need to hold the land for a few years for the bad PR to blow over probably.

Just realised that I have omitted finance costs, which have of course gone UP since 2004, particularly in the housebuilding sector. Big housebuilding companies used to get margins of c1% over LIBOR, now they'll be lucky to get under 3% over LIBOR.

All in all, I reckon a land valuation for development would be maximum £5m, so I reckon this will be the target for any buyer to satisfy the Liths.

Very informative, thanks for that :aok:

[Lester B]

It was Hearts that withdrew, shortly after Vlad took over.

It was certainly Vlad's first major coup saying that they were staying at Tynecastle but by that point Cala who were the main candidates to buy had withdrawn their interest.

[jgl07]

It was certainly Vlad's first major coup saying that they were staying at Tynecastle but by that point Cala who were the main candidates to buy had withdrawn their interest.

I remember it differently.

Hearts (under the Pieman) had a deal in place with Cala with a get out clause. When Romanov took over they had to pay a sum to Cala to cancel the deal. That was what was reported in the press at the time.

[Stevie Reid]

I remember it differently.

Hearts (under the Pieman) had a deal in place with Cala with a get out clause. When Romanov took over they had to pay a sum to Cala to cancel the deal. That was what was reported in the press at the time.

Paid a penalty fee of £75K to cancel the deal: -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/romanov-calls-off-sale-of-tynecastle-to-cala-1-571813

[CropleyWasGod]

I remember it differently.

Hearts (under the Pieman) had a deal in place with Cala with a get out clause. When Romanov took over they had to pay a sum to Cala to cancel the deal. That was what was reported in the press at the time.

That's how I remember it. Hearts paid CALA £75k IIRC, because they withdrew.

[hibs0666]

All in all, I reckon a land valuation for development would be maximum £5m, so I reckon this will be the target for any buyer to satisfy the Liths.

£5 million might satisfy the group with the security over the stadium, but there will still be an amount needed to secure the CVA. If it was somewhere in the region of 10p in the £ to be successful then I guess we're looking at a £7 million up-front outlay if a bidder wanted to get the club out of administration.

Assuming the Force of Heroes can raise £75K a month, it looks like another £1-2 million working capital is also required of the successful bidder.

Of course, the longer this farce continues, the more that BDO is going to rake up in fees and so I would imagine it is in the creditors interest to bring the curtain down quickly after the 12th July if they are to get maximum value from the wreckage.

[Lester B]

That's how I remember it. Hearts paid CALA £75k IIRC, because they withdrew.

To be honest I don't remember it at all at the time. Quite passed me by until a recent conversation. Hearts certainly paid Cala the £75K fee for withdrawing but whether that was strictly necessary or whether it was a macho, I have the money, the first of many, by Romanov is a more debatable point.

Sorry folks have taken us down a side track here. How many season tickets have they sold today then?

[Onion]

I do not believe that Cala would have agreed to pay £20 million for Tynecastle unless there was at least a 'nod and a wink' from the City Councilo regarding planning permission being granted.

If you look, the stadium is in a predominantly residential area. I cannot see how there could be good planning reasons to reject housing for the site. Any refusal would surely fail on appeal. The stadium is the non-conforming use, if anything, for that area. The issue of the 'industrial' stuff behind the stadium is not likely to be an issue as a new Tynecastle School has recently been built in the area and this would not have taken place if there was any danger.

The City Council will be keen to develop the site for the old Tynecastle School (that Hearts had agreed to buy at one stage) and the two sites would make for good development possibilities. The disused School buildings are costing the City Council a fortune to maintain.

A developer might be prepared to take a punt on Tynecastle on the assumption that they would get planning permission eventually. They could let it to the Newco in the meantime.

Big difference then and now is that Yams needed to sell for as much as possible, so Council happy to help out by granting PP. Now Yams are effectively the BUYERS of the land, so Council happy to help out by denying PP, so suppressing price and competition.

[Peevemor]

I do not believe that Cala would have agreed to pay £20 million for Tynecastle unless there was at least a 'nod and a wink' from the City Councilo regarding planning permission being granted.

The bid of around £20m was subject to planning approval, if the applicatin was refused then the deal was off (all totally standard). What was slightly unusual about the Cala bid was that the purchase price could be altered based on the number of houses/flats approved, eg. if the £20m figure was based on, say, 100 units but the Council would only award planning for 80, then the purchase price would have been reduced accordingly.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure BDO said they could only confirm that season tickets would be honoured while they were in charge. A future buyer could still come in and not honour them, so mckie excuse for not bidding does not stand up.

[Mellow Hibee]

So it turns out the group which had "meaningful" talks with the Lithuanian administrators had a business plan which basically revolved around screwing supporters and credit card companies.

[dolphan]

I'm sure BDO said they could only confirm that season tickets would be honoured while they were in charge. A future buyer could still come in and not honour them, so mckie excuse for not bidding does not stand up.

Seems insane to think you could buy and not honour the season tickets, then expect them to buy replacements?

[kdhibees1]

So it turns out the group which had "meaningful" talks with the Lithuanian administrators had a business plan which basically revolved around screwing supporters and credit card companies.
Seems to be the Trampbo way of dealing with things

[God Petrie]

So it turns out the group which had "meaningful" talks with the Lithuanian administrators had a business plan which basically revolved around screwing supporters and credit card companies.

Shame they aren't in the running as they seem perfectly matched for Hertz.

[AndyM_1875]

£5 million might satisfy the group with the security over the stadium, but there will still be an amount needed to secure the CVA. If it was somewhere in the region of 10p in the £ to be successful then I guess we're looking at a £7 million up-front outlay if a bidder wanted to get the club out of administration.

Assuming the Force of Heroes can raise £75K a month, it looks like another £1-2 million working capital is also required of the successful bidder.

Of course, the longer this farce continues, the more that BDO is going to rake up in fees and so I would imagine it is in the creditors interest to bring the curtain down quickly after the 12th July if they are to get maximum value from the wreckage.

A recent conversation with a lapsed Jambo accountant buddy of mine was enlightening.
He reckons unless the buyer has got at least £10-15m at hand, they're wasting their time if they want the club & stadium plus the necessary working capital required. He thinks that whilst the FoH people are well meaning they really haven't a clue what they are getting into as they have no real financial muscle and have next to no chance of getting the club.

He said "Charlie Green picked up Rangers for £5.5m. So why the f*** would you spend double that get Hearts? Wait till the CVA fails and it goes belly up and then buy the assets and move to relaunch the club as a Newco into Division 3."

I enquired if he would say that to his Jambo friends. He laughed and said "No way, they wouldn't listen anyway. These dafties are actually thinking that baking cakes and painting kids faces is going to address the fundamental problem of a horrifically insolvent club that doesnae have a pot to pish into. They're in for a very nasty awakening."

[kdhibees1]

A recent conversation with a lapsed Jambo accountant buddy of mine was enlightening.
He reckons unless the buyer has got at least £10-15m at hand, they're wasting their time if they want the club & stadium plus the necessary working capital required. He thinks that whilst the FoH people are well meaning they really haven't a clue what they are getting into as they have no real financial muscle and have next to no chance of getting the club.

He said "Charlie Green picked up Rangers for £5.5m. So why the f*** would you spend double that get Hearts? Wait till the CVA fails and it goes belly up and then buy the assets and move to relaunch the club as a Newco into Division 3."

I enquired if he would say that to his Jambo friends. He laughed and said "No way, they wouldn't listen anyway. These dafties are actually thinking that baking cakes and painting kids faces is going to address the fundamental problem of a horrifically insolvent club that doesnae have a pot to pish into. They're in for a very nasty awakening."
Magic!!!! :thumbsup:

[Seveno]

As I've said before, it's not the CVA that is the main issue. Leaving aside the matter of the frozen shares, the most important part is satisfying the secured creditor(s).


A recent conversation with a lapsed Jambo accountant buddy of mine was enlightening.
He reckons unless the buyer has got at least £10-15m at hand, they're wasting their time if they want the club & stadium plus the necessary working capital required. He thinks that whilst the FoH people are well meaning they really haven't a clue what they are getting into as they have no real financial muscle and have next to no chance of getting the club.

He said "Charlie Green picked up Rangers for £5.5m. So why the f*** would you spend double that get Hearts? Wait till the CVA fails and it goes belly up and then buy the assets and move to relaunch the club as a Newco into Division 3."

I enquired if he would say that to his Jambo friends. He laughed and said "No way, they wouldn't listen anyway. These dafties are actually thinking that baking cakes and painting kids faces is going to address the fundamental problem of a horrifically insolvent club that doesnae have a pot to pish into. They're in for a very nasty awakening."

Tell your buddy that I like him. :thumbsup:

[Mellow Hibee]

Seems to be the Trampbo way of dealing with things

Yes, they seem perfectly OK with the theory of it (screwing the CC companies, not the fans). It's a very strange sort of culture to have at a club.

My suspicion is that BDO knew they would have a massive problem with the credit card companies if they hadn't honored them, especially since every yam seemed to be extolling the idea that paying £1 on a credit card would protect them when the inevitable happened.

[kdhibees1]

Yes, they seem perfectly OK with the theory of it (screwing the CC companies, not the fans). It's a very strange sort of culture to have at a club.

My suspicion is that BDO knew they would have a massive problem with the credit card companies if they hadn't honored them, especially since every yam seemed to be extolling the idea that paying £1 on a credit card would protect them when the inevitable happened.
It's just a constant torrent of disbelief!! The way of thinking by their fans is scary enough, as for the people who try to take charge it's even worse! No wonder they are so close to oblivion! Erm, erm 5-1 ya hobos eh, hahaha.....erm, erm 1902 hahahaha..... always in our shadow.....erm, erm.... yous are in mega debt tae hahahhahaha. Honestly, just bloody honestly!!! They are complete and utter numpties!!!!!

[Hank Schrader]

A recent conversation with a lapsed Jambo accountant buddy of mine was enlightening.
He reckons unless the buyer has got at least £10-15m at hand, they're wasting their time if they want the club & stadium plus the necessary working capital required. He thinks that whilst the FoH people are well meaning they really haven't a clue what they are getting into as they have no real financial muscle and have next to no chance of getting the club.

He said "Charlie Green picked up Rangers for £5.5m. So why the f*** would you spend double that get Hearts? Wait till the CVA fails and it goes belly up and then buy the assets and move to relaunch the club as a Newco into Division 3."

I enquired if he would say that to his Jambo friends. He laughed and said "No way, they wouldn't listen anyway. These dafties are actually thinking that baking cakes and painting kids faces is going to address the fundamental problem of a horrifically insolvent club that doesnae have a pot to pish into. They're in for a very nasty awakening."

Wow, a straight thinking Hearts fan who actually talks sense. :confused: I thought they didn't exist any more! :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Big difference then and now is that Yams needed to sell for as much as possible, so Council happy to help out by granting PP. Now Yams are effectively the BUYERS of the land, so Council happy to help out by denying PP, so suppressing price and competition.

What ARE you suggesting? that Councillors and Planners are corrupt????

Aye Ok, perfectly understandable. :wink: (with apologies to all Planners I know!)

[jgl07]

What ARE you suggesting? that Councillors and Planners are corrupt????

Aye Ok, perfectly understandable. :wink: (with apologies to all Planners I know!)

Regardless it will make little difference as a developer would win on appeal if the decision was dodgy.

[jacomo]

Regardless it will make little difference as a developer would win on appeal if the decision was dodgy.

:agree:

Obviously the Yams are holding onto the supposed hazards next door to the PBS, but having been granted planning permission for flats before its very hard to see how the Council could justify reversing that decision.

[TRC]

:agree:

Obviously the Yams are holding onto the supposed hazards next door to the PBS, but having been granted planning permission for flats before its very hard to see how the Council could justify reversing that decision.

Surley because there will be a extinct animal there soon?!:aok:

[Sanger]

A recent conversation with a lapsed Jambo accountant buddy of mine was enlightening.
He reckons unless the buyer has got at least £10-15m at hand, they're wasting their time if they want the club & stadium plus the necessary working capital required. He thinks that whilst the FoH people are well meaning they really haven't a clue what they are getting into as they have no real financial muscle and have next to no chance of getting the club.

He said "Charlie Green picked up Rangers for £5.5m. So why the f*** would you spend double that get Hearts? Wait till the CVA fails and it goes belly up and then buy the assets and move to relaunch the club as a Newco into Division 3."

I enquired if he would say that to his Jambo friends. He laughed and said "No way, they wouldn't listen anyway. These dafties are actually thinking that baking cakes and painting kids faces is going to address the fundamental problem of a horrifically insolvent club that doesnae have a pot to pish into. They're in for a very nasty awakening."

Those are round about my estimates and agrre with his logic and view on Yams

[green is good]

:agree:

Obviously the Yams are holding onto the supposed hazards next door to the PBS, but having been granted planning permission for flats before its very hard to see how the Council could justify reversing that decision.

I heard a yam on the bus tell his mate that nobody would get planning permission to build housing at the PBS because of the school that was built nearby recently :faf:

[MKHIBEE]

Wow, a straight thinking Hearts fan who actually talks sense. :confused: I thought they didn't exist any more! :greengrin
He did say his mate was a lapsed Jambo! Obviously seen the light, does he know how to get to Easter Road?:wink::wink:

[Ozyhibby]

With such open collusion among the only two bidders it's doubtful that next weeks bid will be very high. Whether it is enough to satisfy the secured creditors is another thing. Having only FOH bidding may turn out to be good for Hearts if they get it at a reasonable price.
(I've deliberately ignored issues like frozen share etc)

[Moulin Yarns]

:agree:

Obviously the Yams are holding onto the supposed hazards next door to the PBS, but having been granted planning permission for flats before its very hard to see how the Council could justify reversing that decision.

NO planning permission has ever been applied for, let alone given


Surley because there will be a extinct animal there soon?!:aok:

There is already a European Protected Species on the site

Pipistrellus pygmaeus

[greenginger]

:agree:

Obviously the Yams are holding onto the supposed hazards next door to the PBS, but having been granted planning permission for flats before its very hard to see how the Council could justify reversing that decision.


I don't think it got as far as a grant of planning permission, but Cala would certainly have been in consultation with the planners and have been comfortable with their views before going to the trouble of striking a deal with the Football Club.

When the Council Estates Dept gets round to producing the particulars for the sale of old Tynecastle school it will be obvious if there are any impediments to house building on the PBS.

On land values, I saw Smart and Co paid around £ 4 million for the site of the Bank of Scotland computer centre just along the road in Robertson Avenue. That site was about half the size of the PBS and the deal was done in 2010 when prices were rock bottom.

[jacomo]

@edinburghsport: We have learned that the consortium looking to buy Hearts, being led by Gordon McKie, will not now bid. More soon on http://t.co/4RQNn1YqDM

I knew it!

I can imagine McKie's gambit being something like: "If you clear the debt and get the club out of admin before end of August so we can bring in some players, and give us the lot inc. Tynie freehold, we will bid."

Straight out of the Brian Kennedy "Blue Knights" template, and as much chance of happening.

[jacomo]

I don't think it got as far as a grant of planning permission, but Cala would certainly have been in consultation with the planners and have been comfortable with their views before going to the trouble of striking a deal with the Football Club.

When the Council Estates Dept gets round to producing the particulars for the sale of old Tynecastle school it will be obvious if there are any impediments to house building on the PBS.

On land values, I saw Smart and Co paid around £ 4 million for the site of the Bank of Scotland computer centre just along the road in Robertson Avenue. That site was about half the size of the PBS and the deal was done in 2010 when prices were rock bottom.

My bad, I thought it was a done deal. Maybe that's because the Pie Man tried to present it as a done deal? :devil:

"We're off to Murrayfield but we're getting £20m compo for the Not-Fit-for-Purpose midden" sounds a bit better than "We're off to Murrayfield and we might get up to £20m for the midden, dependent on whether or not Cala can ram as many flats as they want into the site."

[sidneyhibbie]

Its Liquidation or Bust:greengrin

[Dibben]

Its Liquidation or Bust:greengrin

Can only hope...

:-)

[brog]

I knew it!

I can imagine McKie's gambit being something like: "If you clear the debt and get the club out of admin before end of August so we can bring in some players, and give us the lot inc. Tynie freehold, we will bid."

Straight out of the Brian Kennedy "Blue Knights" template, and as much chance of happening.

Absolutely, the fact that Mckie & other members of his group were looking at Oldco last year indicated to me they were a bunch of shysters looking to make a quick buck. The fact their business case was predicated on ccommencing ownership by stiffing fans or cc companies only serves to confirm that. Still the spirit of Mercer is alive & kicking!!

[brog]

I love this medium for setting challenging questions.... so much healthier than MSM.:wink:

In all of this, I often have to remind myself of what the law says. I've just had to do that again:-

The three Administration statutory purposes (or required outcomes) are:


- Rescuing the company as a going concern. (Note: this purpose is to rescue the company as opposed to rescuing the business undertaken by the company.)

- Or, achieving a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).

- Or, realising property to make a distribution to one or or more secured or preferential creditors.

In practice, it's normally the case that a going concern will achieve the best result for creditors. That's why an administrator will go for a CVA first, and is why BDO have to exhaust that possibility.

In your scenario, that might not be a better result than a "winding-up". A winding-up might achieve a bit more through the sale of the name, although liquidators' fees would more than gobble that up.

Good question, though.... I may ponder it more :greengrin

Side note.... shareholders don't come into the equation in administration. They do in a liquidation.




Thanks CWG, much appreciated. When I said shareholders I was really thinking UBIG & if they are secured creditors, or even partial secured creditors then hopefully the property realisation may eventually come into play. Ah, this is so much fun!

[pontius pilate]

I may have missed this already but is the two week period for the 3,000 season ticket target not expired to-day?? If so has there been any announcements made?

[steakbake]

Just wanted to recycle this for everyone's enjoyment... after all, we owe it to ourselves.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20091215/in-safe-hands-fedotovas_2241384_1902130

[Saorsa]

Just wanted to recycle this for everyone's enjoyment... after all, we owe it to ourselves.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20091215/in-safe-hands-fedotovas_2241384_1902130


Should read our debt is founded by money stolen from other people. :agree:

[Dunderhall]

Just wanted to recycle this for everyone's enjoyment... after all, we owe it to ourselves.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20091215/in-safe-hands-fedotovas_2241384_1902130


It is 'fact' that UBIG is 100% behind the club and its future development plans. UBIG has been an essential backer and partner of Hearts

Lower case fact. :talkh:

[steakbake]

Lower case fact. :talkh:

Yep, they should have signed off with: END OF. If they had, things might not be in the position that they are. Shame, really.

[Treadstone]

Just wanted to recycle this for everyone's enjoyment... after all, we owe it to ourselves.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20091215/in-safe-hands-fedotovas_2241384_1902130

:faf: Watch this again as well especially the 4:15 mark.


http://video.stv.tv/bc/sport-fedotovas-20121109/

[Saorsa]

:faf: Watch this again as well especially the 4:15 mark.


http://video.stv.tv/bc/sport-fedotovas-20121109/:hilarious

But why have you not paid your taxes :tsk tsk: but, but, but......

[Treadstone]

:hilarious

But why have you not paid your taxes :tsk tsk: but, but, but......

Do these dicks walk into jobs after finishing at fitba' clubs ?:confused:

[HibeeMG]

:faf: Watch this again as well especially the 4:15 mark.


http://video.stv.tv/bc/sport-fedotovas-20121109/

I've never seen that!

Who is that interviewer?

[Treadstone]

I've never seen that!

Who is that interviewer?

Gordon Chree

[Saorsa]

Do these dicks walk into jobs after finishing at fitba' clubs ?:confused:Hopefully when the real dirty deals have been exposed by the Lith fraud investigators the only place he'll be walking in tae (along with the mad one) is http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/exagerent/police/prison.gif

:greengrin

[HibeeMG]

Gordon Chree

Well done Gordon then. That's the only time I've ever seen/heard an interviewer ask the important questions.

'Have Hearts lived beyond their means?'

'We're trying to be a big club'

Tried...... failed.

:greengrin

[greengnome]

Not long arrived home, going through the posts on .net, and having a wee gander at the EEN.... Surprised to see a certain Alistair Darling buying tickets at the Wongadome..... It never ceases to amaze me that there just happens to be reporters / cameras in attendance when MPs are in the vicinity?


Boring............!!!!!!

[jdships]

Surely when the dust has settled and a buyer has been found/appointed the bottom line will be acquiring sufficient cash to operate on a day today /week to week/month to month basis .
In other words " cash flow"
Have seen no answers anywhere to that question

[steakbake]

Surely when the dust has settled and a buyer has been found/appointed the bottom line will be acquiring sufficient cash to operate on a day today /week to week/month to month basis .
In other words " cash flow"
Have seen no answers anywhere to that question

They'll be self sufficient and debt free, with the academy churning out new 'starlets' every week. #allisbarry

[greenginger]

They'll be self sufficient and debt free, with the academy churning out new 'starlets' every week. #allisbarry

And able to turn down offers for their players it would seem !





http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23181105

[jdships]

They'll be self sufficient and debt free, with the academy churning out new 'starlets' every week. #allisbarry

With apologies to Roy Orbison :greengrin

In Dreams

" A maroon -colored clown they call the sandman
Tiptoes to my room every night
Just to sprinkle stardust and to whisper
Go to sleep. everything is all right."

:tee hee:

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Worth a read... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/the-fiver-hearts-for-sale

[CropleyWasGod]

Worth a read... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/the-fiver-hearts-for-sale

Still doesn't make sense to me.

If, as that article says, it's a kosher ad..... it's a Plan B to go the NewCo route as quickly as possible.

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Still doesn't make sense to me.

If, as that article says, it's a kosher ad..... it's a Plan B to go the NewCo route as quickly as possible.

...maybe that's the plan after all then ?

[WeeWendy]

Still doesn't make sense to me.

If, as that article says, it's a kosher ad..... it's a Plan B to go the NewCo route as quickly as possible.

So, looking at it from their perspective - why would they do that? Could they know something that makes that the best option - eg creditors we don't know about - I know nothing about finance, but if there is a lot more money owed than is in the public domain currently, would that take the cost of a CVA regardless of what pence in the pound, beyond realistic?

So finance guys, what would make you take this step? BDO are supposed to be a reputable firm, not dependent on yamanonics, so there should be some rationale behind their actions.

[CropleyWasGod]

So, looking at it from their perspective - why would they do that? Could they know something that makes that the best option - eg creditors we don't know about - I know nothing about finance, but if there is a lot more money owed than is in the public domain currently, would that take the cost of a CVA regardless of what pence in the pound, beyond realistic?

So finance guys, what would make you take this step? BDO are supposed to be a reputable firm, not dependent on yamanonics, so there should be some rationale behind their actions.

IF they did it, it's as a Plan B in case a CVA doesn't work, for whatever reason.

IF they did it, I can understand it. For one thing, the criticism that was levelled at D and P about not testing the market for Rangers' assets, can't be an issue here.

[Dunderhall]

Surely when the dust has settled and a buyer has been found/appointed the bottom line will be acquiring sufficient cash to operate on a day today /week to week/month to month basis .
In other words " cash flow"
Have seen no answers anywhere to that question
Don't worry, FoH have it covered.

Bobajobback.co.uk has a poll suggesting average pledge is around £20 per month.
5000 yams like Shan Willy Rider is £100k per month or £1.2M per annum.

Nobody knows how those stumping up the capital for the bid want repaid assuming they do.
If they come through this in time, I can't see how they can use the January window to recruit without further income.
season tickets for 2014-15 on sale in Jan? :greengrin

They will have other income from match days, walk ups might not be much given the season ticket sales, tv money, SPFL cash, hospitality etc but they need it as they can't run on 100K a month

[Criswell]

After reading the latest Ian Murray MP's (jeeze, is this trumpet really an MP, God help us!) FOH delusional witterings, it is not a case of what planet is this character is on, but what parallel universe does he reside in?

The gist of of seems to be, if any sense could possibly be ascertained, is: if only those Liths would hurry up and do the decent thing and appoint a administrator to UBIG, then the 25 million pounds debt will be written off, the shares, company, the stadium, whole shooting match, will be ours, debt free!

I'm surprised he's not asking for a few million quid to be thrown in as well, as Lockie needs a warchest before the window closes to mount a "serious challenge".

Dear oh dear, isn't it about time that someone took him quietly aside and explained, in the simplest possible terms, that money doesn't actually grow on trees!!!

[monktonharp]

The glorious 12th refers to the 12th August which is the start of Grouse shooting season.

Also my wedding anniversary. Coincidentally 12 years this year.that's strange, it's my anniversary tae:wink: 41 years, never thought that would happen

[rcarter1]

Worth a read... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/the-fiver-hearts-for-sale

I like this!


Absolutely, the fact that Mckie & other members of his group were looking at Oldco last year indicated to me they were a bunch of shysters looking to make a quick buck. The fact their business case was predicated on ccommencing ownership by stiffing fans or cc companies only serves to confirm that. Still the spirit of Mercer is alive & kicking!!


As always... :bitchy:

[Smidge]

On land values, I saw Smart and Co paid around £ 4 million for the site of the Bank of Scotland computer centre just along the road in Robertson Avenue. That site was about half the size of the PBS and the deal was done in 2010 when prices were rock bottom.



Are you sure that deal was done in 2010? I think it was at least agreed well before then. And believe me, there is no way that John Smart would have overpaid for a site!

See my analysis yesterday morning on the land values. I think £5m would be about right.

[lapsedhibee]

Are you sure that deal was done in 2010? I think it was at least agreed well before then. And believe me, there is no way that John Smart would have overpaid for a site!

See my analysis yesterday morning on the land values. I think £5m would be about right.

:confused: If a deal for £4m was agreed well before 2010 and the value of the land in 2010 was less than £4m and John Smart never overpays for a site, then shirley John Smart would have found a way to pull out of the deal? What you seem to be saying, as well as that John Smart never overpays for a site, is that John Smart has overpaid for a site!

[Caversham Green]

After reading the latest Ian Murray MP's (jeeze, is this trumpet really an MP, God help us!) FOH delusional witterings, it is not a case of what planet is this character is on, but what parallel universe does he reside in?

The gist of of seems to be, if any sense could possibly be ascertained, is: if only those Liths would hurry up and do the decent thing and appoint a administrator to UBIG, then the 25 million pounds debt will be written off, the shares, company, the stadium, whole shooting match, will be ours, debt free!

I'm surprised he's not asking for a few million quid to be thrown in as well, as Lockie needs a warchest before the window closes to mount a "serious challenge".

Dear oh dear, isn't it about time that someone took him quietly aside and explained, in the simplest possible terms, that money doesn't actually grow on trees!!!

Spending other people's money is about the only thing MPs are good at - it's their job after all.

Being an MP is just about the only job left that needs neither qualifications nor training, you just need friends in the party that everyone votes for in your area. That's why we get halfwits like Murray in Parliament.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Spending other people's money is about the only thing MPs are good at - it's their job after all.

Being an MP is just about the only job left that needs neither qualifications nor training, you just need friends in the party that everyone votes for in your area. That's why we get halfwits like Murray in Parliament.

:agree: Absolutely correct. I have always maintained that being an MP should be an honour. They should not be allowed to stand until they are a certain age and actually have experience of life before becoming career politicians.

[Treadstone]

Spending other people's money is about the only thing MPs are good at - it's their job after all.

Being an MP is just about the only job left that needs neither qualifications nor training, you just need friends in the party that everyone votes for in your area. That's why we get halfwits like Murray in Parliament.

:agree:
Him and FoH seem to have raised their profiles markedly in recent days, makes me wonder if they are more confident about achieving something.

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree:
Him and FoH seem to have raised their profiles markedly in recent days, makes me wonder if they are more confident about achieving something.

They an be as confident as they like. They have at best estimate 1/5 of the value needed to get Hearts, in as yet unconverted-to-cash pledges, over the course of a year.

Mr Potato Head can spout as much Lillian Gish as he wants. Makes no odds. Hearts are screwed.

[Treadstone]

They an be as confident as they like. They have at best estimate 1/5 of the value needed to get Hearts, in as yet unconverted-to-cash pledges, over the course of a year.

Mr Potato Head can spout as much Lillian Gish as he wants. Makes no odds. Hearts are screwed.

Hope so. Just wondered why now he is never off ma telly and does photo calls at Swynie. Feel he is unlikely to do that if it was to blow up in his boat race. Although maybe he is getting high on the oxygen of publicity, plenty are of that persuasion.

[Saorsa]

They an be as confident as they like. They have at best estimate 1/5 of the value needed to get Hearts, in as yet unconverted-to-cash pledges, over the course of a year.

Mr Potato Head can spout as much Lillian Gish as he wants.Makes no odds. Hearts are screwed.I didnae ken John McGlynn had taken over.


http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=9836&d=1368398240

[greenginger]

Are you sure that deal was done in 2010? I think it was at least agreed well before then. And believe me, there is no way that John Smart would have overpaid for a site!

See my analysis yesterday morning on the land values. I think £5m would be about right.

I don't know the exact details of the deal ,just remember reading an article fairly recently about the launch of the spec. office space they created and there was mention of what the site had been.

[Hibs07p]

With such open collusion among the only two bidders it's doubtful that next weeks bid will be very high. Whether it is enough to satisfy the secured creditors is another thing. Having only FOH bidding may turn out to be good for Hearts if they get it at a reasonable price.
(I've deliberately ignored issues like frozen share etc)

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/foundation-of-hearts-secure-sum-to-make-formal-bid-1-2991873

Totally agree regarding the open collusion. McKie openly withdraws his consortium leaving the FOH as the only show in town, to try and gain ownership on the cheap. At the same time FOH reportedly receive a significant capital sum, while praising McKie, and wanting to maintain close links with the consortium. It makes me wonder where the capital sum came from? Surely nothing corrupt or underhand dealings with FOH / McKie going on?

GGTTH

[Liberal Hibby]

See my analysis yesterday morning on the land values. I think £5m would be about right.

Yes I saw it and it was helpful. But there are a couple of variables you didn't take into account. Firstly that the number of homes proposed is constant when it isn't and construction costs are fixed when we know from the east stand that they are lower. I think your valuation is too low as a result and more importantly much lower than the Liths can/will accept.

[The Falcon]

They an be as confident as they like. They have at best estimate 1/5 of the value needed to get Hearts, in as yet unconverted-to-cash pledges, over the course of a year.

Mr Potato Head can spout as much Lillian Gish as he wants. Makes no odds. Hearts are screwed.


I do not share your optimism but sincerely hope that you, and the financial guys, are calling this correctly. :aok:

[Twa Cairpets]

I do not share your optimism but sincerely hope that you, and the financial guys, are calling this correctly. :aok:

The most conservative estimates for tynecastles value to someone is around 5 million. Chunk from the Goonies and FoH have at top whack £1 million in pledges, and that in monthly instalments. No capital = no purchase.
Ian Murray is a self serving, slightly well meaning simpleton clearly and pathetically out of his depth.

He also has the most asymmetrical face that I've ever seen. Fair puts me off my breakfast, I can tell you, and I'm no oil painting.

[joe breezy]

Yes I saw it and it was helpful. But there are a couple of variables you didn't take into account. Firstly that the number of homes proposed is constant when it isn't and construction costs are fixed when we know from the east stand that they are lower. I think your valuation is too low as a result and more importantly much lower than the Liths can/will accept.

Hope you're right - 5 million does sound cheap - I'll have two please

[rcarter1]

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/foundation-of-hearts-secure-sum-to-make-formal-bid-1-2991873

Totally agree regarding the open collusion. McKie openly withdraws his consortium leaving the FOH as the only show in town, to try and gain ownership on the cheap. At the same time FOH reportedly receive a significant capital sum, while praising McKie, and wanting to maintain close links with the consortium. It makes me wonder where the capital sum came from? Surely nothing corrupt or underhand dealings with FOH / McKie going on?

GGTTH

This was always likely. These groups are all wanting Hearts to survive. They are perfectly entitled to collude, give each other money and generally work together to keep the bids low.


Yes I saw it and it was helpful. But there are a couple of variables you didn't take into account. Firstly that the number of homes proposed is constant when it isn't and construction costs are fixed when we know from the east stand that they are lower. I think your valuation is too low as a result and more importantly much lower than the Liths can/will accept.

Whats the evidence that the Liths cant or wont accept a low bid? Ive yet to be convinced that anyone other than a Hearts friendly bidder will make a bid.

[Geo_1875]

Ive yet to be convinced that anyone other than a Hearts friendly bidder will make a bid.

Why?

[Spike Mandela]

Why?

.....because that's what happens with 99.99% of football administrations.

[Liberal Hibby]

Whats the evidence that the Liths cant or wont accept a low bid? Ive yet to be convinced that anyone other than a Hearts friendly bidder will make a bid.

Because it is secured for at least 7 mill

[SmithyHibee]

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/foundation-of-hearts-secure-sum-to-make-formal-bid-1-2991873

Totally agree regarding the open collusion. McKie openly withdraws his consortium leaving the FOH as the only show in town, to try and gain ownership on the cheap. At the same time FOH reportedly receive a significant capital sum, while praising McKie, and wanting to maintain close links with the consortium. It makes me wonder where the capital sum came from? Surely nothing corrupt or underhand dealings with FOH / McKie going on?

GGTTH

So many conflicting stories, in that article it Murray says it'll take at least two years to be self financing. Did the administrators not say previously they could be turning a profit by next year?

There's far too much that the buyers don't know and even the administrators don't know for anyone to make projections like that!

Roasters each and every one of them

[Caversham Green]

This was always likely. These groups are all wanting Hearts to survive. They are perfectly entitled to collude, give each other money and generally work together to keep the bids low.



Whats the evidence that the Liths cant or wont accept a low bid? Ive yet to be convinced that anyone other than a Hearts friendly bidder will make a bid.

Ukio is in liquidation and UBIG will soon be in administration. The IPs dealing with them are duty bound to realise as much from those companies' assets as they can, not least to pay their own fees, and they have little or no political pressure on them to keep HoMFC afloat and they have securities over all the assets which means the very least they can get is market value.

What makes you think they would accept a low bid?

[Galahibby]

They're playing at Selkirk today and taking half the gate money. Have they no shame? How the mighty have fallen!

[Spike Mandela]

Ukio is in liquidation and UBIG will soon be in administration. The IPs dealing with them are duty bound to realise as much from those companies' assets as they can, not least to pay their own fees, and they have little or no political pressure on them to keep HoMFC afloat and they have securities over all the assets which means the very least they can get is market value.

What makes you think they would accept a low bid?

....Duff and Phelps.

[greenginger]

The way I could see a bid being acceptable to the Liths and feasible for FoH. would be a two part bid.

First part an offer of circa £ 2 million for the football club etc. and a 3 year lease of the PBS.

Second part an offer in 3 years time to buy the PBS property in an open bid/negotiated deal.

That would allow the new owners time to collect pledges, beg rich Yams and bake cakes ( or even have a share issue) to raise the necessary capital. Maybe even move into a new community stadium !

Its the only way the Liths will get a decent price without damaging the Club.

[Geo_1875]

.....because that's what happens with 99.99% of football administrations.
So out of the last 10,000 football administrations how many have been as "complex" as the Ukio/UBIG/Hertz situation?

[Caversham Green]

....Duff and Phelps.

Duff and Phelps were not nominated by the creditors, had no securities to deal with and were under a degree of political pressure - very different circumstances from the yams.

They also ended up closing Rangers down and selling off the assets.

[joe breezy]

Duff and Phelps were not nominated by the creditors, had no securities to deal with and were under a degree of political pressure - very different circumstances from the yams.

They also ended up closing Rangers down and selling off the assets.

Indeed - Green still got them on the cheap though

[jonty]

I don't think it got as far as a grant of planning permission, but Cala would certainly have been in consultation with the planners and have been comfortable with their views before going to the trouble of striking a deal with the Football Club.

When the Council Estates Dept gets round to producing the particulars for the sale of old Tynecastle school it will be obvious if there are any impediments to house building on the PBS.

On land values, I saw Smart and Co paid around £ 4 million for the site of the Bank of Scotland computer centre just along the road in Robertson Avenue. That site was about half the size of the PBS and the deal was done in 2010 when prices were rock bottom.

Page 116 (Albeit on PM board) http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?249746&p=3615707#post3615707 :greengrin

Judging by google maps, the site that Smart bought is roughly half the size of the hearts site.

I think they'd be lucky to get 8m and extremely lucky to get more than 10m from a developer - although if they could pick up the school site and tynecastle for around 15m then they could build a mini-town.

[Caversham Green]

Indeed - Green still got them on the cheap though

Because there were no unsecured creditors to consider and D&P entered into a highly dubious contract with him. They still went down to the bottom division as well - I'd be quite happy with that outcome for HoMFC.

[Treadstone]

Duff and Phelps were not nominated by the creditors, had no securities to deal with and were under a degree of political pressure - very different circumstances from the yams.

They also ended up closing Rangers down and selling off the assets.

That last part is often forgotten.

[steakbake]

With the restructure into a pyramid system, demotion from the 3rd etc, wouldn't the bottom league now be the Lowland Scottish one?

[Treadstone]

With the restructure into a pyramid system, demotion from the 3rd etc, wouldn't the bottom league now be the Lowland Scottish one?

The 'precedent' that Birch has quoted now has a few extra layers to it or depths.

[Spike Mandela]

Duff and Phelps were not nominated by the creditors, had no securities to deal with and were under a degree of political pressure - very different circumstances from the yams.

They also ended up closing Rangers down and selling off the assets.

Yes all of this is true, whilst with D&P repeating your mantra Cav about 'working to secure the biggest return for the creditors' they still managed to sell Rangers and it's assets for a pittance whilst ditching squillions of debt.

[Geo_1875]

Yes all of this is true, whilst with BDO repeating your mantra Cav about 'working to secure the biggest return for the creditors' they still managed to sell Rangers and it's assets for a pittance whilst ditching squillions of debt.

They didn't sell Rangers. They closed them down and sold the assets. There is no Rangers playing in Scotland.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes all of this is true, whilst with D&P repeating your mantra Cav about 'working to secure the biggest return for the creditors' they still managed to sell Rangers and it's assets for a pittance whilst ditching squillions of debt.

There is one fundamental difference, though.

The biggest criticism of D and P, for me, is that they didn't (to my knowledge) test the market for Rangers' assets by putting them into the public domain for sale.

If this week's advert in the FT is genuine (and I still have my doubts about that), then BDO are doing exactly that. There can be none of the D&P criticism levelled at them in that respect.

If, at the end of all of this, the assets are sold for "a pittance", it will be be because the market has been tested and they are worth exactly that.

[Keith_M]

If this week's advert in the FT is genuine (and I still have my doubts about that), then BDO are doing exactly that.


"Turns out BDO.... put an advert in the altogether more respectable Financial Times last week sometime, and if you do that you get a free listing on BusinessesForSale.com, gratis, albeit not immediately it would seem. "There really is nothing sinister in it," sighed a spokesperson for BDO, who the Fiver sensed had quite a few better things to do with his time than talk through the small print of a free ad with a football email suffering from cognitive issues, but was very kind and patient nonetheless. "We placed the FT ad to make sure everyone knows Hearts is for sale. It's just a marketing tool, to ensure anyone interested knows about it.""

From the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/the-fiver-hearts-for-sale) article... which says it IS genuine.

[Caversham Green]

Yes all of this is true, whilst with D&P repeating your mantra Cav about 'working to secure the biggest return for the creditors' they still managed to sell Rangers and it's assets for a pittance whilst ditching squillions of debt.

My point is that D&P could stand accused of pulling a flanker by entering into an agreement with Green to sell the assets on the cheap because there were no secured creditors to stop them and apparently no property market for Ibrox and Murray Park. None of that applies to HoMFC and the PBS.

In any case, Rangers were liquidated and do not exist any more. It was a fudge by the football authorities that allowed Sevco to change their name and pretend to be Rangers - we must not let the wee arrow people forget that.

[greenginger]

Page 116 (Albeit on PM board) http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?249746&p=3615707#post3615707 :greengrin

Judging by google maps, the site that Smart bought is roughly half the size of the hearts site.

I think they'd be lucky to get 8m and extremely lucky to get more than 10m from a developer - although if they could pick up the school site and tynecastle for around 15m then they could build a mini-town.

The PBS does have advantages as a development site. There is access on 3 sides which could reduce the cost and space taken up with internal roads.

Mikey, how much is in the Hibs.Net kitty, we could form Hibs.net Developments Ltd and make a few bob. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

"Turns out BDO.... put an advert in the altogether more respectable Financial Times last week sometime, and if you do that you get a free listing on BusinessesForSale.com, gratis, albeit not immediately it would seem. "There really is nothing sinister in it," sighed a spokesperson for BDO, who the Fiver sensed had quite a few better things to do with his time than talk through the small print of a free ad with a football email suffering from cognitive issues, but was very kind and patient nonetheless. "We placed the FT ad to make sure everyone knows Hearts is for sale. It's just a marketing tool, to ensure anyone interested knows about it.""

From the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/the-fiver-hearts-for-sale) article... which says it IS genuine.

Yeah, I read that.

Call me anti-MSM, but I'm still not convinced. Less sceptical than I was, though.

The ad is incorrect and misleading in some of its wording, and feels a bit sloppy. It is different in feel from the advert for the business.

That all said, if it's genuine, it does make sense that BDO would do it.

[Leithenhibby]

They didn't sell Rangers. They closed them down and sold the assets. There is no Rangers playing in Scotland.


Effing Love it..... :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

They didn't sell Rangers. They closed them down and sold the assets. There is no Rangers playing in Scotland.

You are of course factually correct Geo but the one fact that remains is the administrators sold all the 'good' assets that make up a football club at a pitiful knockdown price.

Nobody could ever convince me they are acting in the best interest of the creditors as per their mantra.

[Sanger]

Wii prove to everyone what everyone all ready knows: there are no serious bids for Hearts with sufficient money upfront to satisfy the Lithuanian administrators. BDO will then quickly move to liquidation taking their fee from the sales and saying how sorry it has cone to this! RiIP HMFC:rolleyes:

[Spike Mandela]

Wii prove to everyone what everyone all ready knows: there are no serious bids for Hearts with sufficient money upfront to satisfy the Lithuanian administrators. BDO will then quickly move to liquidation taking their fee from the sales and saying how sorry it has cone to this! RiIP HMFC:rolleyes:

On a scale of 0-100% how sure are you desantos?

[CropleyWasGod]

You are of course factually correct Geo but the one fact that remains is the administrators sold all the 'good' assets that make up a football club at a pitiful knockdown price.

Nobody could ever convince me they are acting in the best interest of the creditors as per their mantra.

Even if BDO's report on their conduct says so?

[Spike Mandela]

Even if BDO's report on their conduct says so?

Even if YOU said so CWG:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Even if YOU said so CWG:greengrin

:greengrin

Fat chance of that...... where's that fence?

[green glory]

@JaneLewisSport: #Hearts administrator on BBC Sportsound says he's not ruling out newco route if Lithuanian elements prove stumbling block to securing CVA.

BDO keep preparing the maroon forelock tuggers for the likely death of their club.

[weonlywon6-2]

The PBS does have advantages as a development site. There is access on 3 sides which could reduce the cost and space taken up with internal roads.

Mikey, how much is in the Hibs.Net kitty, we could form Hibs.net Developments Ltd and make a few bob. :greengrin

Is there not an issue with the brewery when it comes to selling??

[jgl07]

Is there not an issue with the brewery when it comes to selling??

Err no or they wouldn't have built a new school next door.

[BarneyK]

Is there not an issue with the brewery when it comes to selling??

I think it improves the general smell of the area, but other than that... :dunno:

[Spike Mandela]

Is there not an issue with the brewery when it comes to selling??

It's a distillery:cb...............Pedant Alert!!

[green glory]

I think it improves the general smell of the area, but other than that... :dunno:

Just think how much better it would smell without the PBS.

[God Petrie]

It seems obvious to me that a Newco is going to be the solution - they're just going through the motions at the moment.

[sidneyhibbie]

Wii prove to everyone what everyone all ready knows: there are no serious bids for Hearts with sufficient money upfront to satisfy the Lithuanian administrators. BDO will then quickly move to liquidation taking their fee from the sales and saying how sorry it has cone to this! RiIP HMFC:rolleyes:

yip i can see it going this way as well as the situation in Lith Land is a mess and will drag on for months cake making will go into over drive once BDO the deed.

[Dunderhall]

It's a distillery:cb...............Pedant Alert!!
Isn't the issue with a whisky vat.

can't be though surely, the yams don't care about VAT.

[brog]

Wii prove to everyone what everyone all ready knows: there are no serious bids for Hearts with sufficient money upfront to satisfy the Lithuanian administrators. BDO will then quickly move to liquidation taking their fee from the sales and saying how sorry it has cone to this! RiIP HMFC:rolleyes:

Agree 100%. I think BDO are going through the motions & starting to worry about their fees.

[Caversham Green]

You are of course factually correct Geo but the one fact that remains is the administrators sold all the 'good' assets that make up a football club at a pitiful knockdown price.

Nobody could ever convince me they are acting in the best interest of the creditors as per their mantra.

Just to put the record straight, I don't think they acted in the best interest of the creditors either. BDO will certainly not whitewash the issue, but nor will they make any accusations if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did. That's life.

[Onion]

Agree 100%. I think BDO are going through the motions & starting to worry about their fees.

If there is/was little to no chance of any of the bids being accepted, and BDO knew that, then they had no right to string this along - pleading with fans to stump up cash to keep the patient alive. BDO should be very well aware of what the Liths want ( as they were appointed by the Liths) and roughly how much FOH and other can offer (as they've spoken to interested parties). Failure of the CVA would not reflect well on BDO.

[greenginger]

Is there not an issue with the brewery when it comes to selling??

Planners will want some separation between North British Distillery and any housing , but there will also be requirements for open space in a development so that space would be utilised in that way.

The old Tynie high school is up for sale as a development site so we will soon see if the Council has any issues with the distillery proximity.

[CropleyWasGod]

If there is/was little to no chance of any of the bids being accepted, and BDO knew that, then they had no right to string this along - pleading with fans to stump up cash to keep the patient alive. BDO should be very well aware of what the Liths want ( as they were appointed by the Liths) and roughly how much FOH and other can offer (as they've spoken to interested parties). Failure of the CVA would not reflect well on BDO.

Why is that?

The administrator has specific statutory duties. He can't just come in and say immediately "there's no money about, no offers, let's just shut it down". He has to go through the process set down by law. He also has to allow bidders the time to organise their own bids and finance.

I always thought that this would be a relatively short administration, and that's how it looks to be panning out. Yes, this is a short one.

However, if there's no CVA, I don't think you can point a finger at BDO. If there is no decent offer, then that's life; that's not their fault.

[Sanger]

On a scale of 0-100% how sure are you desantos?
99.99999%

[YehButNoBut]

Think Newco is getting closer. :thumbsup:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23212493?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Hearts: UBIG shares means club must consider 'plan B'

Hearts joint administrator Trevor Birch insists the club cannot rule out entering a "newco scenario". Birch says that route is a "last resort" to be pursued if the issue with UBIG's proposed administration and shareholding remains unresolved. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23167775)

UBIG, who are claiming insolvency, own 50% of the shares at Tynecastle and are also a major club creditor. "There may be a delay in the process and therefore you may have to look to plan B," Birch told BBC Radio Scotland. "I've been at pains to say that we have to be prepared for that.

"If it becomes a total stumbling block and an impossibility to deliver the shares via a CVA [company voluntary arrangement], then you may need to look at the newco scenario [transfer of club assets to a new company]. "That is absolutely last resort but if that is the only way of circumventing the share issue then that's what you'd have to look at."

Birch, of accountancy firm BDO, hopes UBIG will be placed in administration during August, which would make the selling of Hearts more straightforward once they identify a preferred bidder.

[CropleyWasGod]

Birch, of accountancy firm BDO, hopes UBIG will be placed in administration during August, which would make the selling of Hearts more straightforward once they identify a preferred bidder.

That line should read "Birch disagrees with the collective opinion of Hibs.net".:greengrin

Not sure I agree with him. The shares are frozen, and will remain so even if an administrator is appointed. The administrator, as is his duty, will try and obtain possession of them; that bit may prove difficult.

[Dashing Bob S]

Wii prove to everyone what everyone all ready knows: there are no serious bids for Hearts with sufficient money upfront to satisfy the Lithuanian administrators. BDO will then quickly move to liquidation taking their fee from the sales and saying how sorry it has cone to this! RiIP HMFC:rolleyes:

This has always been the likely outcome. The rest has been piss and wind and going through the motions.

[Waxy]

What happens if they try and go the newco route once the season has started.
They may do this and hope to stay in the top league as anything else would cause massive disruption problems.
I think this is what they will try to do.
I hope they can't get away with this.

[ronaldo7]

What happens if they try and go the newco route once the season has started.
They may do this and hope to stay in the top league as anything else would cause massive disruption problems.
I think this is what they will try to do.
I hope they can't get away with this.

The SFA should hit them with at least £250,000 fine and that would settle the matter. They could then promote Morton and let the Hertz crumble into division 3:aok:

[greenginger]

I don't think NewCo's can happen overnight. There would be a gap between closing of HOMFC 1874 and HOMFC 2013 starting and I don't think even our lot of football blazers could smooth that one through.

[sidneyhibbie]

Think Newco is getting closer. :thumbsup:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23212493?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Hearts: UBIG shares means club must consider 'plan B'

Hearts joint administrator Trevor Birch insists the club cannot rule out entering a "newco scenario". Birch says that route is a "last resort" to be pursued if the issue with UBIG's proposed administration and shareholding remains unresolved. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23167775)

UBIG, who are claiming insolvency, own 50% of the shares at Tynecastle and are also a major club creditor. "There may be a delay in the process and therefore you may have to look to plan B," Birch told BBC Radio Scotland. "I've been at pains to say that we have to be prepared for that.

"If it becomes a total stumbling block and an impossibility to deliver the shares via a CVA [company voluntary arrangement], then you may need to look at the newco scenario [transfer of club assets to a new company]. "That is absolutely last resort but if that is the only way of circumventing the share issue then that's what you'd have to look at."

Birch, of accountancy firm BDO, hopes UBIG will be placed in administration during August, which would make the selling of Hearts more straightforward once they identify a preferred bidder.

I Am now warming to BDO they are slipping the " Newco " word in more and more now i think they are trying to get it to the point that the yams just accept it as they have no other choice, my worry is that they keep the dead patient on the life suport machine long enough for the season to start then it gets switched off and " Newco "

The Zombie " Newco " might have to remain in the SPL As season already started, i take it The Administrator of Ukio Bankas will then sell the PBS Off to any builders that may want it once they have been liquidated ?

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think NewCo's can happen overnight. There would be a gap between closing of HOMFC 1874 and HOMFC 2013 starting and I don't think even our lot of football blazers could smooth that one through.

Hmmm, not sure I agree.

I could start up a company today. It would therefore be ready to take over the assets of HMFC at any time.

The issue, though, would be the transfer of the SFA memberships and SPFL share. They would need to be ratified, and it's that that would take time.


I Am now warming to BDO they are slipping the " Newco " word in more and more now i think they are trying to get it to the point that the yams just accept it as they have no other choice, my worry is that they keep the dead patient on the life suport machine long enough for the season to start then it gets switched off and " Newco "

The Zombie " Newco " might have to remain in the SPL As season already started, i take it The Administrator of Ukio Bankas will then sell the PBS Off to any builders that may want it once they have been liquidated ?

Sidney takes it wrong :greengrin

If a NewCo has bought the assets of OldCo, NewCo owns the PBS.

[500miles]

Sidney takes it wrong :greengrin

If a NewCo has bought the assets of OldCo, NewCo owns the PBS.

And where does a Newco get the finance to purchase Tyncastle from the OldCo? BDO aren't under the same political and social pressures Duff and Phelps were to sell cheap. Tyncastle will go to the highest bidder, to cover the security held by UBIG, who will themselves be flogging everything off to the highest bidder to pay their creditors.

How much is Tyncastle worth as land? It can be built on outside the blast zone, and is next to the city centre. Who is going to lend FOH the cash to buy over a dilapidated and inadequate facility like Tyncastle?

If Hearts start off again as a Newco, they may have to move elsewhere anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

Hmmm, not sure I agree.

I could start up a company today. It would therefore be ready to take over the assets of HMFC at any time.

The issue, though, would be the transfer of the SFA memberships and SPFL share. They would need to be ratified, and it's that that would take time.

I propose the Cropley, Caversham, Desantos and Sergey PLC start a company under the name Heart of Midlothian Original Football Club in order to take control of the newco

[Ray_]

Sidney takes it wrong :greengrin

If a NewCo has bought the assets of OldCo, NewCo owns the PBS.

Even when Tynie is secured to Ukio?

[CropleyWasGod]

Even when Tynie is secured to Ukio?

Yes.

Newco buys the PBS from the OldCo. The Oldco pays UKIO what it can towards the security.

[Ray_]

I propose the Cropley, Caversham, Desantos and Sergey PLC start a company under the name Heart of Midlothian Original Football Club in order to take control of the newco


We already have all their assets, Fraser Mullen. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

And where does a Newco get the finance to purchase Tyncastle from the OldCo? .

That's their problem.

To clarify, when we say NewCo, we are meaning a NEW owner of the assets of HMFC. That, of course, could be a company that wants to own a football club. It might not be.


I propose the Cropley, Caversham, Desantos and Sergey PLC start a company under the name Heart of Midlothian Original Football Club in order to take control of the newco

I'm out.

The words "shave my eyeballs with a machete" come to mind.

[Ray_]

Yes.

Newco buys the PBS from the OldCo. The Oldco pays UKIO what it can towards the security.

That's pretty poor, Old Co get to sell off an asset that they have already used as secured debt!

[Onion]

Why is that?

The administrator has specific statutory duties. He can't just come in and say immediately "there's no money about, no offers, let's just shut it down". He has to go through the process set down by law. He also has to allow bidders the time to organise their own bids and finance.

I always thought that this would be a relatively short administration, and that's how it looks to be panning out. Yes, this is a short one.

However, if there's no CVA, I don't think you can point a finger at BDO. If there is no decent offer, then that's life; that's not their fault.

BDO have enticed 3000 people to part with a lot of cash on the premise that this would give Hearts a decent shot at exiting Administration and assumption they would be playing SPL football in the coming season. They must have done this with some knowledge of the creditors likely demands and FOH/others funding positions. Their job is to broker a deal.

Yet just DAYS after squeezing fans for cash they get bearish and start talking about admin problems and possible Newco (with likely 3rd Div football ???). Whole thing feels like a legalised scam - process or not :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

That's pretty poor, Old Co get to sell off an asset that they have already used as secured debt!

It's no different to selling a house, that has been used as security for a loan. You own the house, but you have to pay off the lender from the proceeds of the sale.

[Ray_]

BDO have enticed 3000 people to part with a lot of cash on the premise that this would give Hearts a decent shot at exiting Administration and assumption they would be playing SPL football in the coming season. They must have done this with some knowledge of the creditors likely demands and FOH/others funding positions. Their job is to broker a deal.

Yet just DAYS after squeezing fans for cash they get bearish and start talking about admin problems and possible Newco (with likely 3rd Div football ???). Whole thing feels like a legalised scam - process or not :rolleyes:

They are the BIG support, they can afford it!


It's no different to selling a house, that has been used as security for a loan. You own the house, but you have to pay off the lender from the proceeds of the sale.

A house you have more chance of getting value for, my concern is the case of Ibrox & Murray Park.

[Gus Fring]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I've been out of the loop for the last week and a half and only been able to catch snippets of the thread.

Hearts didn't sell the 3000 season tickets in 2 weeks they wanted to but they have raised enough money to survive for the time being my source tells me. Morale is starting to drop again significantly despite this. The staff still haven't got a clue what's going on and all the talk of different consortiums is getting frustrating now, "every few days theres a new interested party and we forget about the old one, this process repeats at least once every 3 days" they said.

Another quote

"Foundation of Hearts have no chance of owning the club, the administrator doesn't think they've got a viable business model so wouldn't sell to them, they are just keeping them sweet because they'd get lynched by fans if they told them to beat it. The only way that shower will have any involvement is if they get tacked on to another, far more credible bid"

Nothing earth shattering but then I'm told nothing exciting is really happening at Tynecastle, it's all very mundane, going through the motions until the season starts

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO have enticed 3000 people to part with a lot of cash on the premise that this would give Hearts a decent shot at exiting Administration and assumption they would be playing SPL football in the coming season. They must have done this with some knowledge of the creditors likely demands and FOH/others funding positions. Their job is to broker a deal.

Yet just DAYS after squeezing fans for cash they get bearish and start talking about admin problems and possible Newco (with likely 3rd Div football ???). Whole thing feels like a legalised scam - process or not :rolleyes:

It's one thing having discussions with possible buyers, and quite another getting bids out of them. That is why BDO set the deadline for bids, to see who is serious. They set it early, recognising the cash shortfall, and tried to create a safety net by selling more ST's. That is only right; again, it's in their job spec.

They ARE trying to broker a deal; that's part of their job. But, like an estate agent trying to sell your house..... if the bid doesn't actually materialise, no matter how hard they work, its not their fault.


A house you have more chance of getting value for, my concern is the case of Ibrox & Murray Park.

As I mentioned above, this is a different situation.

AFAIK, D&P didn't market the RFC assets in the public domain. The criticism is therefore that they didn't sell for market value.

If the BDO advert in the FT this week is genuine, then they ARE marketing the Hearts' assets. That way, they WILL be sold for market value, even if it is peanuts.

[Sanger]

Big problem for buying assets from Oldco for Newco is that none of the interested parties have sufficient funds to meet the minimum Ukio Bankas/UBIG administrators require. That is why a complete liquidation of Tynie & HMFC is on the cards.

[CropleyWasGod]

Big problem for buying assets from Oldco for Newco is that none of the interested parties have sufficient funds to meet the minimum Ukio Bankas/UBIG administrators require. That is why a complete liquidation of Tynie & HMFC is on the cards.

How much is that?

[Sanger]

How much is that?

I would say £8 million cash upfront

[CropleyWasGod]

I would say £8 million cash upfront

That's probably a decent shout. But, bottom line, if there are no bids of that much, then they have to take what's offered, or else take possession of the PBS and sell it themselves.

[Billy Whizz]

What happens during the season if they have to form a Newco?
I'm presuming also, it would require the new league body to transfer the share.
If this had been answered before I apologise.

[CropleyWasGod]

What happens during the season if they have to form a Newco?
I'm presuming also, it would require the new league body to transfer the share.
If this had been answered before I apologise.

Nobody knows, TBH. We've not been here before :greengrin

But, yes, the share (and the SFA membership) would have to be transferred.

[Jack]

Just to put the record straight, I don't think they acted in the best interest of the creditors either. BDO will certainly not whitewash the issue, but nor will they make any accusations if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did. That's life.

When you say "if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did." do you mean a more expensive legal team? ;-)

More seriously, if indeed this is serious for us, two questions please.

Why is it important to secure the shares?
Given they are now worthless and the BDO have been installed by a court of law, why can't they just write to the shareholders and say that and that we are trying to clear up the mess - and then get on with it. It seems the share problem is holding everything up and devaluing what they are trying to gain. And

The secured creditor status.
Sorry this is an old one that's been bugging me. Certainly in this case it just seems that an ordinary creditor has been given special status cause they're 'mates' while everyone else is left scrambling about for the scraps. In laymen terms, please, why is this apparent con allowed?

Thanks.

[Kojock]

It seems obvious to me that a Newco is going to be the solution - they're just going through the motions at the moment.

I got the sack from a sewage treatment plant cause they said I was going the the motions. It was a 5hit job anyway.

[Billy Whizz]

Nobody knows, TBH. We've not been here before :greengrin

But, yes, the share (and the SFA membership) would have to be transferred.

Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

[Kojock]

Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

Surely the SPFL should be asking for guarantees that Hertz will be able to survive till the end of the season then if not expulsion from the SPL should follow.

[CropleyWasGod]

When you say "if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did." do you mean a more expensive legal team? ;-)

More seriously, if indeed this is serious for us, two questions please.

Why is it important to secure the shares?
Given they are now worthless and the BDO have been installed by a court of law, why can't they just write to the shareholders and say that and that we are trying to clear up the mess - and then get on with it. It seems the share problem is holding everything up and devaluing what they are trying to gain. And

The secured creditor status.
Sorry this is an old one that's been bugging me. Certainly in this case it just seems that an ordinary creditor that's been given special status cause they're 'mates' while everyone else is left scrambling about for the scraps. In laymen terms, please, what is this apparent con allowed?

Thanks.

1. by securing the shares, Cav means the shares that UBIG (and others) have in HMFC. BDO need to take possession of them before they can complete the administration. It's crucial to the process.

2. secured creditors are usually banks that have lent a company (or an individual, eg for a mortgage) substantial amounts of money. They have taken more risk than most creditors and, in return for that risk, can take out a security. That security gives them preferential status in a situation like this.

It's nothing to do with being mates or a scam. If a bank couldn't have that security, with its legal privileges, they just wouldn't lend.

[Sanger]

Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

[Billy Whizz]

Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

Interesting, might not be a derby on the 10th August then

[Ray_]

That's probably a decent shout. But, bottom line, if there are no bids of that much, then they have to take what's offered, or else take possession of the PBS and sell it themselves.

Thanks for that, I was thinking that Ukio would have to take what was offered and not have the opportunity to take hold of the asset. :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for that, I was thinking that Ukio would have to take what was offered and not have the opportunity to take hold of the asset. :thumbsup:

TBH, I don't know if they would take hold of the PBS in practice. Given that they have to get a decent return for their creditors, they would still have to sell it.

So... in reality.... take £5m (say) for it through the administration.... or.... take possession of it, and still end up getting the same, less all the marketing costs.

[PapillonVert]

Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

What is a "meaningful" bid. Seems to me to be anything you decide it to mean. If someone offered a "not-at-the_moment _meaningful-but-might_be,b9" would that be meaningful?

[Sanger]

What is a "meaningful" bid. Seems to me to be anything you decide it to mean. If someone offered a "not-at-the_moment _meaningful-but-might_be,b9" would that be meaningful?

Definitely not !

[PapillonVert]

Definitely not !


Ach, I'm just a simpleton in these matters.

[greenginger]

Hmmm, not sure I agree.

I could start up a company today. It would therefore be ready to take over the assets of HMFC at any time.

The issue, though, would be the transfer of the SFA memberships and SPFL share. They would need to be ratified, and it's that that would take time.


May'be thats why this company was kept alive. Would'nt even have to change the name.




http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails


And seeing how the Company was formed in 1990 the Yams will claim its not a NewCo ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

May'be thats why this company was kept alive. Would'nt even have to change the name.




http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails


And seeing how the Company was formed in 1990 the Yams will claim its not a NewCo ! :greengrin

Do you know that none of your CH links ever work? :greengrin

[greenginger]

They work when I click them :confused: I think I need lessons or a new lap-top

[Mellow Hibee]

What would happen if, on the back of the FT advert someone said to the administrators that they would happily bid £5.5M for the stadium alone for development.

Meanwhile the highest bid for the club is £5.25M plus enough to satisfy the creditors with a CVA.

Do BDO have a duty to keep the club a going concern if at all possible or would they simply sell the ground then sell the other assets to the highest bidder through liquidation?

[sidneyhibbie]

It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.:flag:

[FranckSuzy]

It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.:flag:

Suzy agrees :agree:

[Eyrie]

TBH, I don't know if they would take hold of the PBS in practice. Given that they have to get a decent return for their creditors, they would still have to sell it.

So... in reality.... take £5m (say) for it through the administration.... or.... take possession of it, and still end up getting the same, less all the marketing costs.

But BDO say they'll take their fees from the sale proceeds.

To my mind the administrators of Ukio Bankas would be better to take possession of the PBS in exchange for writing off their debt, and that way they get the proceeds less marketing fees, which will surely be a higher amount than the proceeds less BDO's fees.

[Sergey]

It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.:flag:　　

I've mentioned this on the PM forum and I'm happy to say it again - The LT government are under extreme political pressure to call the Ukio bankruptcy right - ie, in the best interests of the LT taxpayer.

This is a fairly new government and they campaigned strongly prior to coming to power on correcting the wrongs of the LT financial markets. Bankas Snoras went belly-up a few years ago and the aftermath was mismanaged from Day 1. The current incumbents in power really focused on this case in their political campaign and are now under the microscope to do what's right for the nation - not what's right for some two-bob, bigoted, SPL club.

I'm confident that the Lith's can't play ball even if they wanted to.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

**** me - nearly 600 guests on a pre season friendly thread. Notice also a registered Yam is on here. Must be wondering how teams with a bit of money do their pre-seasons.

Gary Cock's team were playing the mighty Selkirk today, I think.

[sidneyhibbie]

　　

I've mentioned this on the PM forum and I'm happy to say it again - The LT government are under extreme political pressure to call the Ukio bankruptcy right - ie, in the best interests of the LT taxpayer.

This is a fairly new government and they campaigned strongly prior to coming to power on correcting the wrongs of the LT financial markets. Bankas Snoras went belly-up a few years ago and the aftermath was mismanaged from Day 1. The current incumbents in power really focused on this case in their political campaign and are now under the microscope to do what's right for the nation - not what's right for some two-bob, bigoted, SPL club.

I'm confident that the Lith's can't play ball even if they wanted to.

Liking what you are saying Sergey :flag: to them on broke back who mock me and Sergey go and bake a cake:na na:

[CyberSauzee]

99.99999%

I love your exemplary understanding of probability and Yams liquidation.

[steakbake]

Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

There will be a Renfrewshire derby next season?

[hibeesjoe]

Skint cheats

[3pm]

Gary Cock's team were playing the mighty Selkirk today, I think.

6-2 for the filth.

[sidneyhibbie]

I Bagsy the 1st call to drive the bulldozer through the PBS :flag:

[BarneyK]

6-2 for the filth.

Got a nice ring to it, that scoreline

[Mon Dieu4]

I Bagsy the 1st call to drive the bulldozer through the PBS :flag:

Too late, Sidney already claimed it for himself

[Albion Hibs]

After reading the latest Ian Murray MP's (jeeze, is this trumpet really an MP, God help us!) FOH delusional witterings, it is not a case of what planet is this character is on, but what parallel universe does he reside in?

The gist of of seems to be, if any sense could possibly be ascertained, is: if only those Liths would hurry up and do the decent thing and appoint a administrator to UBIG, then the 25 million pounds debt will be written off, the shares, company, the stadium, whole shooting match, will be ours, debt free!

I'm surprised he's not asking for a few million quid to be thrown in as well, as Lockie needs a warchest before the window closes to mount a "serious challenge".

Dear oh dear, isn't it about time that someone took him quietly aside and explained, in the simplest possible terms, that money doesn't actually grow on trees!!!

There is something wrong with the fact this MP seems to be advocating all this debt just being dumped at the expense of the taxpayer...the Lithuanian one admittedly but none the less still seems very wrong. He also has a massive jamboface.

[BarneyK]

TBH, I don't know if they would take hold of the PBS in practice. Given that they have to get a decent return for their creditors, they would still have to sell it.

So... in reality.... take £5m (say) for it through the administration.... or.... take possession of it, and still end up getting the same, less all the marketing costs.

What value would have to be offered in a CVA for the Liths to pocket £5m - assuming they have to share the pot with others and with BDO?

[bighairyfaeleith]

There is something wrong with the fact this MP seems to be advocating all this debt just being dumped at the expense of the taxpayer...the Lithuanian one admittedly but none the less still seems very wrong. He also has a massive jamboface.

Massive, I mean it's ****ing huge!!