Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Kato]

Tweets







https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3698265644/1b6cdd461d9ac64382efd6e22eded269_normal.jpegBarry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)2m (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337565998217580545)
@TheJamieRyan (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan) That doesn't mean they'll just do as he wants though....

View conversation (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337565998217580545)



https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3698265644/1b6cdd461d9ac64382efd6e22eded269_normal.jpegBarry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)7m (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337564868838305792)
@TheJamieRyan (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan) @emcpostie (https://twitter.com/emcpostie) As for how they fund themselves, it's up to Hearts. Can't expect fans to keep generating £1m after £1m. 2/2

View conversation (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337564868838305792)



https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3698265644/1b6cdd461d9ac64382efd6e22eded269_normal.jpegBarry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)8m (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337564402695954432)
@TheJamieRyan (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan) @emcpostie (https://twitter.com/emcpostie) Lied? Utter horse****. Hearts are self-sufficient in that they're no longer funded by UBIG. That's all. 1/2

View conversation (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/337564402695954432)



https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3645306661/7ccc498333f8f1c5d70da5e54951899e_normal.jpegJamie Ryan ‏@TheJamieRyan (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan)1h (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan/status/337549696803422209)
@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) I see your lies about Hearts being "self-sufficient" have been uncovered Barry. Club themselves admitted they are not.
Retweeted by Barry Anderson (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)
Expand (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan/status/337549696803422209)







He's replying to the guy now, first time in weeks it seems and he's showing he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about! What a fud this guy is! How has he got a job!?


What he means is that they are self-reliant - as in they have to rely upon themselves to fund their endeavours. "Self-sufficient" means that they can meet their costs, which is a totally different thing. He's not very good with English is ol' Barry.

[Waxy]

Just read that. Apparently, the move was overwhelmingly voted against from the floor (ordinary shareholders) but they're going to ignore that and appoint him anyway.

So, who's still pulling the strings at the AllisbarryDome? :hmmm:Hmmmmm.Must be the owners.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just read that. Apparently, the move was overwhelmingly voted against from the floor (ordinary shareholders) but they're going to ignore that and appoint him anyway.

So, who's still pulling the strings at the AllisbarryDome? :hmmm:

The shareholders have the right to vote for who they want, irrespective of whether they are at the AGM or not.

In this case, whoever had the proxy to cast the UBIG vote would easily have outvoted those present.

[Keith_M]

The shareholders have the right to vote for who they want, irrespective of whether they are at the AGM or not.

In this case, whoever had the proxy to cast the UBIG vote would easily have outvoted those present.


I realise that, I'm just interested in the fact that it is Rodney.

It suggests to me that Romanov is still calling the shots and wants more of a direct presence on the board. What I'm wondering most is just why, and what he's up to.

[CropleyWasGod]

I realise that, I'm just interested in the fact that it is Rodney.

It suggests to me that Romanov is still calling the shots and wants more of a direct presence on the board. What I'm wondering most is just why, and what he's up to.

It'll be about control and, maybe, limiting damage (moving the locations of the bodies etc :greengrin)

[Waxy]

I realise that, I'm just interested in the fact that it is Rodney.

It suggests to me that Romanov is still calling the shots and wants more of a direct presence on the board. What I'm wondering most is just why, and what he's up to.Probably they'll be wanting him inside for when the admin guys come calling.

[southsider]

I realise that, I'm just interested in the fact that it is Rodney.

It suggests to me that Romanov is still calling the shots and wants more of a direct presence on the board. What I'm wondering most is just why, and what he's up to.

Something bad i hope......no wait something really bad lol

[ano hibby]

Since UKio Bankas have a claim on 79% of HMFC shares for the £22m loan to UBIG that Romanov used to clear the overdraft with Bank of Scotland when he took over and then converted to shares that means UkIO Bankas hold 108% if the shares!

Yep they were so long the shares they decided to go short also. Its a Yammish thing we cant begin to understand. Makes perfect sense.

[Gus Fring]

There's been no reply to this. The fact the guy claims he's not lying is what winds me up. If it's not Lies then what else is it? Other Hibbies giving him it tight as well now

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3645306661/7ccc498333f8f1c5d70da5e54951899e_normal.jpegJamie Ryan ‏@TheJamieRyan (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan)14m (https://twitter.com/TheJamieRyan/status/337576807480057856)
@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) Interview, with Fedotovas, from today where he admits they aren't self sufficent yet! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_zPhrWXt-D8&t=25 … (http://t.co/AwoGsVIbTM)Apology?

[Platinum Scotty]

with reference to the muppet Banderson............could it just be that as he is a complete plum he has confused the fact that HaHaHearts wont be able to get any more funding as them being self sufficient?

would really suggest that he is an utter fud if thats the case, but thats the only way i can seem to make any (well partial) sense of his ramblings!

[Onion]

What he means is that they are self-reliant - as in they have to rely upon themselves to fund their endeavours. "Self-sufficient" means that they can meet their costs, which is a totally different thing. He's not very good with English is ol' Barry.

By self-sufficient, he means they've completely exhausted their latest source of dirty money and and having to operate like a viable business... until they can find their next sucker to bed.

And no mention of the ££££££ of accumulated debt that they have no chance of replaying (just assume it will go away).

[CropleyWasGod]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

[Kato]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

If he told me frogs hop I'd check with David Attenborough before believing him....and probably Dickie as well, just for a second opinion.

[Hero76]

By the sounds of it someone will come in a table a offer of a few million pound and inherit the ****s & the PBS debt free.

[Gus Fring]

By the sounds of it someone will come in a table a offer of a few million pound and inherit the ****s & the PBS debt free.

The secured debt is very unlikely to just disappear.

[Kato]

By the sounds of it someone will come in a table a offer of a few million pound and inherit the ****s & the PBS debt free.

Which sounds are these?

[Phil D. Rolls]

By the sounds of it someone will come in a table a offer of a few million pound and inherit the ****s & the PBS debt free.

Sounds like a fantasy. Although, I hear that a Mr. Kipling is running his eye over a rival business in the West of Edinburgh. Burton's Biscuits deny it's them.

[Andy74]

If he told me frogs hop I'd check with David Attenborough before believing him....and probably Dickie as well, just for a second opinion.

Frogs hop? Like on one foot?

[Platinum Scotty]

By the sounds of it someone will come in a table a offer of a few million pound and inherit the ****s & the PBS debt free.

Based on what sounds, all I have seen - ignoring the raging fud Banderson - suggests the opposite................what you hearing?

[Kato]

Frogs hop? Like on one foot?


Yes. And sometimes two.

[Ross4356]

Just as well, because Hibs were *technically* insolvent during the early 2000s (before the cark park sale and the "golden generation" coming through).

Someone explain this, news to me

[HibbyAndy]

These ***** are gonna get off scot free!! You just know it.

[Beefster]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

I wouldn't pay much attention to anything he says. He's as big a snake oil salesman as Vlad.

[SlickShoes]

How do you buy the club and wipe out the debt without paying it? Serious question.

If UBIG aren't run by admin I can see them just wanting to offload hearts and eat the debt, but if UBIG are run by an administrator they won't just let £25m slip by.

[Gus Fring]

These ***** are gonna get off scot free!! You just know it.

We don't, though. Namely because every bit of common sense, logic and business knowledge would indicate they won't.

[Hero76]

These ***** are gonna get off scot free!! You just know it.

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?
If a consortium can get the club and ground debt free the offers will be stacking up.

[JeMeSouviens]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

Done some digging and have turned up their accounts (warning for those of a nervous disposition, cover contains cup final imagery :rolleyes:):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/140824200/Hearts-Accounts-2011-12

The very last page (note 24) is relevant. £15M of debt has gone to Ukio Bankas along with the fixed charge over Tiny and floating charge over the assets of the company.

So looks like the £10M to UBIG might have been shuffled to unsecured just in time for the Yams. Which, presuming the acquiescence of the Lithquidators, could potentially see them bump the taxman for £1M or so?

[StevieC]

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?

Take £2m a year out of the club in interest charges and loan repayments for the outstanding amount? :dunno:

Why take £5m all-in now when you could receive the same amount over a 3 year period (and still have security over all the assets)?

[proud_and_green]

What he means is that they are self-reliant - as in they have to rely upon themselves to fund their endeavours. "Self-sufficient" means that they can meet their costs, which is a totally different thing. He's not very good with English is ol' Barry.

I was going to post exactly the same point.

This is all part of the PR machine to encourage prospective buyers. Although, it beats me why anyone would want to buy a football club other than as emotional purchase:

There is one certain way of making a small fortune and that is to invest a large fortune in a football club!

[Leithenhibby]

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?
If a consortium can get the club and ground debt free the offers will be stacking up.

I'll believe it when I see it :wink:

[Gus Fring]

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?
If a consortium can get the club and ground debt free the offers will be stacking up.

Where has this notion come from that Administrators will accept pennies for companies?

A significant part of the debt is secured! That fact is incredibly important and should not be ignored. Too many people are under the inaccurate assumption that an administrator will just take what offer they get and move on. If the offer isn't high enough, they will liquidate the company.

Nobody who thinks Hearts will be purchased a) cheaply and b) debt free has ever given an even remotely plausible scenario of how that could occur.

[JeMeSouviens]

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?
If a consortium can get the club and ground debt free the offers will be stacking up.

Sell Tiny to a property company who are happy to take £1M a year in rent off of any (old or new) club that wants to play there while sitting on the land for future development.

[proud_and_green]

Someone explain this, news to me

technical insolvency means that your liabilities outweigh your assets. It does not necessarily mean though that you will be declared insolvent though as you may actually be able to service your debt.

[Hero76]

Take £2m a year out of the club in interest charges and loan repayments for the outstanding amount? :dunno:

Why take £5m all-in now when you could receive the same amount over a 3 year period (and still have security over all the assets)?

Like I say Stevie Im no expert but I just have a feeling these ***** will walk away from this smelling of roses.

[Kato]

UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?


It's not up to UBIG/UKIO any more - it's up to the administrators of UKIO and the soon to be appointed administrators/liquidators of UBIG.

The alternative to making a few million by selling cheap could be to sell Tynecastle for a few million x3 and the shares in the FC for what they can get.

If you are out to maximise the amount coming back to the Lithuanian tax-payer what would you accept - 3-5M pounds or 7-10M pounds?

[Hero76]

It's not up to UBIG/UKIO any more - it's up to the administrators of UKIO and the soon to be appointed administrators/liquidators of UBIG.

The alternative to making a few million by selling cheap could be to sell Tynecastle for a few million x3 and the shares in the FC for what they can get.

If you are out to maximise the amount coming back to the Lithuanian tax-payer what would you accept - 3-5M pounds or 7-10M pounds?


Thats the worrying part its out of Romanov;s hands now and there was no way he would have let the club go on the cheap.

[Kato]

Thats the worrying part its out of Romanov;s hands now and there was no way he would have let the club go on the cheap.

I find myself unworried as to Hearts fate.

What is exactly is there to worry about?

[Liberal Hibby]

Like I say Stevie Im no expert but I just have a feeling these ***** will walk away from this smelling of roses.

I guess if they are playing on Saughton Park they're more likely to be smelling of roses than they are at Tiny where they smell of the distillery...

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thats the worrying part its out of Romanov;s hands now and there was no way he would have let the club go on the cheap.

I think a couple of million for the brand is acceptable. Your looking at a name that's all. No stadium,no players, lower league.

[Stonewall]

technical insolvency means that your liabilities outweigh your assets. It does not necessarily mean though that you will be declared insolvent though as you may actually be able to service your debt.

I think the claim was made by David Glenn of PWC in their annual report into the financial health of Scottish football so It has some credibility. At the time our debt was at it's maximum (circa 16m I think), the original Sky TV deal had been lost and we had yet to sell the car park.

[Waxy]

Thats the worrying part its out of Romanov;s hands now and there was no way he would have let the club go on the cheap.According to what Fedotovas said,in 23 days time UBIG could be declared insolvent by the Lithuanian courts.They will be deducted 15 points and will most likely be relegated.They themselves will probably go into administration at some point and could possibly be liquidated.It shouldn't be any of us thats worrying.

[Keith_M]

Although i am no expert in this I agree with the above, the most that will happen will be 15 point deduction for going into admin. UBIG/UKIO would be mad not to accept a offer of a few million, whats the alternative ?
If a consortium can get the club and ground debt free the offers will be stacking up.


Like I say Stevie Im no expert but I just have a feeling these ***** will walk away from this smelling of roses.



Please explain your logic

[Onion]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

A bank that's given someone an unsecured £10m loan :confused:

[steakbake]

A bank that's given someone an unsecured £10m loan :confused:

Well, it's a bank that's now gone under so it's possible that's what all the big banks do for big teams...

[CropleyWasGod]

A bank that's given someone an unsecured £10m loan :confused:

Not the bank. UBIG are the holding company, remember.

The bank funding, from UKIO, is secured.


If what JMS says is correct, and the debt has been "unsecured", that brings the notion of a CVA (slightly) back into play. HMRC couldn't block it.

[Ozyhibby]

If they have a £2.5 hole in their cash flow projection for next year then I imagine that the first thing an admin is going to do when appointed at Ubig is shut down all loss making operations?

[Stevie Reid]

STV News just couldn't get more embarrassing.

[CropleyWasGod]

STV News just couldn't get more embarrassing.

Yes it can :greengrin

I love bringing this up every now and then...last year they claimed that Rangers had deducted VAT from staff wages. :rolleyes:

[Stevie Reid]

Yes it can :greengrin

I love bringing this up every now and then...last year they claimed that Rangers had deducted VAT from staff wages. :rolleyes:

That just means it's been more embarrassing, retrospectively :greengrin

That Hearts report was a disgrace.

[Mikey]

That just means it's been more embarrassing, retrospectively :greengrin

That Hearts report was a disgrace.

What were they saying?

[Kaiser1962]

The shareholders have the right to vote for who they want, irrespective of whether they are at the AGM or not.

In this case, whoever had the proxy to cast the UBIG vote would easily have outvoted those present.

I do hope the person who cast the UBIG vote had authority to do so. I hope it wasnt just anyone like, say, a lowly janitor.



Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

Big change since the share issue then. UBIG retain 50% of the shares and have dumped £15m on UKIO all since said share issue. I hope the Lith authorities, as well as our own, are all over this.

[greengnome]

That just means it's been more embarrassing, retrospectively :greengrin

That Hearts report was a disgrace.


Some of them over the way still have hopes....!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: See below.


I think ultimately we are going to be alright eventually but there might some really hairy days in the next few weeks / months / season depending on what happens this summer & autumn.

Ultimately though I believe we will remain at Tynecastle, under new ownership and back on top of Hibs before too long but we could face a certain amount of pain & fear along the way. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

[Stevie Reid]

What were they saying?

The main story of the whole news was about the Scandinavian consortium, and before going into the report the presenter said that the deal 'could' lead to them taking over the club with no debt. The report then followed with practically no information on the Nordic lot (or indeed how they would acquire a club with no debt) and casually dropped Fedotovas mentioning the £2.5M hole (with no further comment) halfway through the report. We then got a soundbite from FOH leader who simply stated that the fans should pledge as much as they can to them, no mention of the other group.

Big headlines with nothing to back it up, and the biggest news in the story practically ignored.

The look ahead to the sport section then mentioned Hearts looking at signing targets for next season, followed by a cursory mention of the cup final.

[CropleyWasGod]

I do hope the person who cast the UBIG vote had authority to do so. I hope it wasnt just anyone like, say, a lowly janitor.


.

Yeah, that did cross my mind, too. Does a CEO have the power to cast such a vote? Presumably, the Board gave her that power before they all jumped submarine.:rolleyes:

[MyJo]

Some of them over the way still have hopes....!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: See below.


I think ultimately we are going to be alright eventually but there might some really hairy days in the next few weeks / months / season depending on what happens this summer & autumn.

Ultimately though I believe we will remain at Tynecastle, under new ownership and back on top of Hibs before too long but we could face a certain amount of pain & fear along the way. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png


It is really rather pitiful how obsessed they are with Hibs. The fact they would be saved from annihilation, retain thier stadium by some miracle and be rid of the mental lithuianians is secondary to the happiness they would get from telling us Hobo's how much better they are than us.

We define them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The main story of the whole news was about the Scandinavian consortium, and before going into the report the presenter said that the deal 'could' lead to them taking over the club with no debt. The report then followed with practically no information on the Nordic lot (or indeed how they would acquire a club with no debt) and casually dropped Fedotovas mentioning the £2.5M hole (with no further comment) halfway through the report. We then got a soundbite from FOH leader who simply stated that the fans should pledge as much as they can to them, no mention of the other group.

Big headlines with nothing to back it up, and the biggest news in the story practically ignored.

The look ahead to the sport section then mentioned Hearts looking at signing targets for next season, followed by a cursory mention of the cup final.

I think the statements from the FOH man, and the ex director, suggest that things are going to be grim.

[Stevie Reid]

I think the statements from the FOH man, and the ex director, suggest that things are going to be grim.

Indeed. The comment from the former Finance Director was brilliantly frank.

[Treadstone]

Indeed. The comment from the former Finance Director was brilliantly frank.

Here.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226557-scandinavian-consortium-close-to-negotiating-a-price-to-buy-hearts/

[Platinum Scotty]

Here.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226557-scandinavian-consortium-close-to-negotiating-a-price-to-buy-hearts/

Silly question time then and this to all the folks who have managed to make sense of the farce over at the PBS..

Do we see any wriggle room for them? And by that I mean is there any circumstance where they can not be utterly hammered (and rightly so) by the various authorities?

[CropleyWasGod]

Silly question time then and this to all the folks who have managed to make sense of the farce over at the PBS..

Do we see any wriggle room for them? And by that I mean is there any circumstance where they can not be utterly hammered (and rightly so) by the various authorities?

One thing that 25 years in business has taught me is that there is never a sure thing. I wouldn't bet my house on Hearts not being here in a year or so.

That said, I said a year ago that the only way Rangers could survive in their current form was if a stupid man came galloping over a stupid hill on his stupid horse with stupid money. They were in a much better position than Hearts are now, and they didn't survive.

Since the financial problems started to surface a few years ago, I have said that I could see a situation whereby Hearts could be picked up for a song and start over again, with no stadium and no debt, in Division 3. That is still my favoured outcome, leaving emotion aside obviously.

The only other way out that I could see is if a stupid man on a stupid horse......etc etc.

[poolman]

I do hope the person who cast the UBIG vote had authority to do so. I hope it wasnt just anyone like, say, a lowly janitor.

Sorry guv,next time I see you i'll dof me flat cap and give you a wave with me sweep in brush

[Sanger]

Just watching the Fedotovas video.

He says that the UBIG £10m debt is unsecured. I had understood that this was the subject of a floating charge.

Anyone?

Ukio Bankas have a £15m loan to HMFC secured on Tynecastle. They also have a £22m loan to UBIG which UBIG lent on to HMFC who used it to clear overdraft with Bank of Scotland when Romanov took over - this Liam is secured with 79% of total outstanding shares in HMFC which UBIG received from converting £22m loan to HMFC to shares. Ukio Bankas also have loans of £10m and £8.8m to UBIG who lent on to HMFC (the £8.8m was forgiven by a Romanov Panama company).

[bighairyfaeleith]

Sorry guv,next time I see you i'll dof me flat cap and give you a wave with me sweep in brush

Are you going to jump on every jannie comment?

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

[green day]

One thing that 25 years in business has taught me is that there is never a sure thing. I wouldn't bet my house on Hearts not being here in a year or so.

That said, I said a year ago that the only way Rangers could survive in their current form was if a stupid man came galloping over a stupid hill on his stupid horse with stupid money. They were in a much better position than Hearts are now, and they didn't survive.

Since the financial problems started to surface a few years ago, I have said that I could see a situation whereby Hearts could be picked up for a song and start over again, with no stadium and no debt, in Division 3. That is still my favoured outcome, leaving emotion aside obviously.

The only other way out that I could see is if a stupid man on a stupid horse......etc etc.

Understand that.....but the huns (or newco huns) are 2 years from premier league, with a stadium, training ground and zero debt - I worry that the ****s "get off" like that.

Doesn't feel like the catastrophic meltdown I kinda dream about.

[ac1]

Understand that.....but the huns (or newco huns) are 2 years from premier league, with a stadium, training ground and zero debt - I worry that the ****s "get off" like that.

Doesn't feel like the catastrophic meltdown I kinda dream about.


Did Sevco not announce a loss of 7 million in under a year?

[Ozyhibby]

Understand that.....but the huns (or newco huns) are 2 years from premier league, with a stadium, training ground and zero debt - I worry that the ****s "get off" like that.

Doesn't feel like the catastrophic meltdown I kinda dream about.

They have more pain to come.

[Gus Fring]

Did Sevco not announce a loss of 7 million in under a year?

:agree:

That irks me. People think everything is "fine" with Sevco and it's far from it. It would seem they're situation was only possible through a combination of a dodgy owner, a dodgy administrator and a dodgy buyer. Even with all 3 of them (apparently) out of the picture they are still knee deep in the brown stuff and haven't learnt any lessons from how they were run previously.

Hearts would be incredibly lucky to end up in a situation like the sevco one is perceived to be. They won't have anywhere near the same level of bending over backwards once this happens :******:

[The Green Goblin]

:agree:

That irks me. People think everything is "fine" with Sevco and it's far from it. It would seem they're situation was only possible through a combination of a dodgy owner, a dodgy administrator and a dodgy buyer. Even with all 3 of them (apparently) out of the picture they are still knee deep in the brown stuff and haven't learnt any lessons from how they were run previously.

Hearts would be incredibly lucky to end up in a situation like the sevco one is perceived to be. They won't have anywhere near the same level of bending over backwards once this happens :******:

Or numbers of fans/season ticket holders...

[Chibs]

Like I say Stevie Im no expert but I just have a feeling these ***** will
walk away from this smelling of roses.
"smelling of roses"
You wish
pushing up daisies more like.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ukio Bankas have a £15m loan to HMFC secured on Tynecastle. They also have a £22m loan to UBIG which UBIG lent on to HMFC who used it to clear overdraft with Bank of Scotland when Romanov took over - this Liam is secured with 79% of total outstanding shares in HMFC which UBIG received from converting £22m loan to HMFC to shares. Ukio Bankas also have loans of £10m and £8.8m to UBIG who lent on to HMFC (the £8.8m was forgiven by a Romanov Panama company).

But is the £10m secured? It was, but has that charge been withdrawn?

And my name's not Liam :greengrin

[poolman]

Are you going to jump on every jannie comment?

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2


Yes,why not

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Better than just sweeping it under the carpet I suppose.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Yes,why not

Because its boring, he is not having a go at janitors, its a turn of phrase. Get over it, everyones lines of work gets fun poked at them at times.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

[Hibbyradge]

Better than just sweeping it under the carpet I suppose.

:faf:

That floored me.

[MyJo]

:faf:

That floored me.

Dear oh dear Mr Radge, your gonna have to brush up on your puns :greengrin

[Mikey]

Can we keep this mildly on topic please.

And puns aint on topic :wink:

[MyJo]

Can we keep this mildly on topic please.

And puns aint on topic :wink:

sooooo........will Hearts be able to wipe the floor with us next season or will they still be mopping up this UBIG mess? :dunno:

[kdhibees1]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/GroundskeeperWillie.png

[PatHead]

First time I have really had a chance to post since speaking to him but the resident Jambo at work was at the AGM today. He highlighted a few wee beauties. The farce of reappointing Roman. Secondly the director could not tell them how much was Lithuanian Ukib/ukib. He said it was either 76% or 79% but it didn't really matter. Professional or what. His next fear was about Alex Mackie who asked the question as to whether FoH were trying to buy 50% of 79% of the club or 50% of the total club. He also asked who the Swiss company who owned the balance of the club was. Doesn't strike me as having his finger on the pulse. Hope he does buy Hearts it could be even funnier.

[Hibbyradge]

sooooo........will Hearts be able to wipe the floor with us next season or will they still be mopping up this UBIG mess? :dunno:

If Hearts are going to survive, they'll have to bring in sweeping reforms.

[poolman]

Because its boring, he is not having a go at janitors, its a turn of phrase. Get over it, everyones lines of work gets fun poked at them at times.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

What turn of phrase exactly ?

[Chibs]

Can we keep this mildly on topic please.

And puns aint on topic :wink:
Sooty says the ****bos are dead and leave his burd oot of this

[Viva_Palmeiras]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-to-ask-fans-for-help-raising-2-5m-1-2943242

Sorry only read the headlines - can I just ask - who are/is Hearts? Did Roman get the Spanish archer?

[matty_f]

That's gone from a £1.8m gap in, what -november?, to a £2.5m gap now.

Wonder how large the gap will have grown to in 6 more months.

Still, self-sufficient, aye?

[EdinMike]

That's gone from a £1.8m gap in, what -november?, to a £2.5m gap now.

Wonder how large the gap will have grown to in 6 more months.

Still, self-sufficient, aye?

And considering they are reducing their wage budget during the summer ?

A sinking black hole is ever increasing...

[Sanger]

But is the £10m secured? It was, but has that charge been withdrawn?

And my name's not Liam :greengrin

The £10m loan of UBIG to Hearts has a back to back one between Ukio Bankas and UBIG. There are also £22m and £8.8m loans with a similar structure that I mentioned above but UBIG have converted to shares/forgiven to Hearts. Ukio Bankas hold the shares in this conversion against the £40.8m (22 + + 8.8 + 10) lent to UBIG that was lent on to Hearts.

[Sanger]

http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/dfcforum/topic.asp?whichpage=1.7&TOPIC_ID=31891

[Treadstone]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-to-ask-fans-for-help-raising-2-5m-1-2943242

Sorry only read the headlines - can I just ask - who are/is Hearts? Did Roman get the Spanish archer?

Brilliant from 'Jonathan' in the comments "Credit to Hearts for being upfront about this"
:faf:

[The Falcon]

The £10m loan of UBIG to Hearts has a back to back one between Ukio Bankas and UBIG. There are also £22m and £8.8m loans with a similar structure that I mentioned above but UBIG have converted to shares/forgiven to Hearts. Ukio Bankas hold the shares in this conversion against the £40.8m (22 + + 8.8 + 10) lent to UBIG that was lent on to Hearts.

You neglect to mention the £7.9m which was "forgiven" the year prior to the £8.8m, or this/last years "compensation income" from FTB Kaunus of a further £2.9m. Did neither of these sums originate from UKIO, or did they come from elsewhere?

[Sanger]

You neglect to mention the £7.9m which was "forgiven" the year prior to the £8.8m, or this/last years "compensation income" from FTB Kaunus of a further £2.9m. Did neither of these sums originate from UKIO, or did they come from elsewhere?

It would all come as loans from Ukio Bankas to UBIG or other Romanov companies.

[Kaiser1962]

What turn of phrase exactly ?

I was paraphrasing the extremely ignorant comment, justifying the SPL's decision to ignore UBIG's obvious "insolvency event", suggesting that it may have been a janitor who told the Lithuanian Government that UBIG was insolvent.

I meant no slur on janitors and if my comment was percieved as such, I apologise.

[Just Alf]

Because its boring, he is not having a go at janitors, its a turn of phrase. Get over it, everyones lines of work gets fun poked at them at times.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

On phone so can't be bothered looking back but maybe he's simply not read the thread (including the fact that it was mentioned Jannies are pretty key people in many places) or kept up with what the SPL were saying and that its simply a paraphrase of that?

[The Falcon]

It would all come as loans from Ukio Bankas to UBIG or other Romanov companies.

So do we know how much, with reasonable accuracy, the yams have fleeced UKIO's customers for in the last seven years? I have saw figures quoted as high as £70m.

[Sanger]

You neglect to mention the £7.9m which was "forgiven" the year prior to the £8.8m, or this/last years "compensation income" from FTB Kaunus of a further £2.9m. Did neither of these sums originate from UKIO, or did they come from elsewhere?

Who forgave the £7.9m? I can only see a debt for equity swap for £10m the year before the £8.8m debt forgiveness by the Panama company in 2011.

[Sanger]

So do we know how much, with reasonable accuracy, the yams have fleeced UKIO's customers for in the last seven years? I have saw figures quoted as high as £70m.


A minimum if £55.8 million!

[Sanger]

So do we know how much, with reasonable accuracy, the yams have fleeced UKIO's customers for in the last seven years? I have saw figures quoted as high as £70m.


Here's another £2m so make it £57.8m!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4570516.stm

[PapillonVert]

That's gone from a £1.8m gap in, what -november?, to a £2.5m gap now.

Wonder how large the gap will have grown to in 6 more months.

Still, self-sufficient, aye?

That's what gets me. They assure the SPL Board on Monday that they're "self-sufficient" (presumably that equates to a going concern) and so what happens in Lithuania re. "we're-insolvent-just-don't-let-onto-the-SPL" owners is irrelevant to their trading position. Then on Thursday they're blithely announcing at their AGM that they have a £2.5 million funding shortfall for next season.

Seems like an admission of de facto insolvency to me.

[AndyB_70]

Does anyone know the likely value of the land that the PBS Wongadome sits on? I think this value will be a major factor if they live or die. Some YAMs have it between £2m and £13m. I hope it's high so some potential savour will be put off trying to buy them on the cheap.

[Geo_1875]

What I don't understand is who these people are talking to. UBIG are the"owners" but have no board and all their assets are frozen. They are not yet officially in administration so are not part of the Ukio bankruptcy process. Are they talking to Romanov as the owner (he can't sell), the Ukio administrator (he can't sell) or the UBIG janitor (he surely can't be in a position to sell).

[The Falcon]

Who forgave the £7.9m? I can only see a debt for equity swap for £10m the year before the £8.8m debt forgiveness by the Panama company in 2011.

The 2009-2010 accounts directors report highlights a "£7.9m investment via forgiveness of debt by the clubs main shareholder and related parties" which, ultimately, resulted in a profit for the season of £39k. The Yams did this to "meet future UEFA financial fair play guidelines".

[Onion]

That's what gets me. They assure the SPL Board on Monday that they're "self-sufficient" (presumably that equates to a going concern) and so what happens in Lithuania re. "we're-insolvent-just-don't-let-onto-the-SPL" owners is irrelevant to their trading position. Then on Thursday they're blithely announcing at their AGM that they have a £2.5 million funding shortfall for next season.

Seems like an admission of de facto insolvency to me.

No de facto about it. They owe a huge amount of money with no plan or means to repay it, they openly admit to needing charity payments to cover their day to day operating costs and have no prospect of raising cash against their assets. That's not a viable business in any sense of the word and the SPL are burying their heads .

[Sanger]

The 2009-2010 accounts directors report highlights a "£7.9m investment via forgiveness of debt by the clubs main shareholder and related parties" which, ultimately, resulted in a profit for the season of £39k. The Yams did this to "meet future UEFA financial fair play guidelines".


Thanks add that to the £57.8 million and we now have £65.7 million. Rapidly approaching that £70 million number!

[matty_f]

You neglect to mention the £7.9m which was "forgiven" the year prior to the £8.8m, or this/last years "compensation income" from FTB Kaunus of a further £2.9m. Did neither of these sums originate from UKIO, or did they come from elsewhere?

The Kaunas payment is the real sham one, and needs highlighting imho.

[Sanger]

The Kaunas payment is the real sham one, and needs highlighting imho.


Yes that probably came from Ukio Bankas as loan through UBIG to Kaunas. That makes the total real debt Hearts have run up £68.6 million. Yes £70 million real debt was a good estimate! Scandalous.

[Bostonhibby]

On phone so can't be bothered looking back but maybe he's simply not read the thread (including the fact that it was mentioned Jannies are pretty key people in many places) or kept up with what the SPL were saying and that its simply a paraphrase of that?

Agree. Wouldn't it help take the heat out of this debate if, since its the yams we are talking about, we substituted Janitor with Proctologist? Apologies to any proctologists who are looking in but it does seem a more yammish choice given their circumstances and preferences.

[Spike Mandela]

What I don't understand is who these people are talking to. UBIG are the"owners" but have no board and all their assets are frozen. They are not yet officially in administration so are not part of the Ukio bankruptcy process. Are they talking to Romanov as the owner (he can't sell), the Ukio administrator (he can't sell) or the UBIG janitor (he surely can't be in a position to sell).

Despite what he is saying publically Fedetovas obviously knew what was happening with Ubig and he knws the situation with Hearts.

I am certain that with the aid of contacts, ex board members, Lithuanian officials palms greased, Romanov himself, knowledge of both Lithuanian and UK insolvency law he will be orchestrating all the factors within his cotrol and probably pulling a few strings of others with control in other crucial areas so that Hearts will get as soft a landing as possible and end up at new owners at a cheap rate.

[poolman]

I was paraphrasing the extremely ignorant comment, justifying the SPL's decision to ignore UBIG's obvious "insolvency event", suggesting that it may have been a janitor who told the Lithuanian Government that UBIG was insolvent.

I meant no slur on janitors and if my comment was percieved as such, I apologise.

Nae probs,I was in a bit of a grump yesterday

[gogsy23]

Does anyone know the likely value of the land that the PBS Wongadome sits on? I think this value will be a major factor if they live or die. Some YAMs have it between £2m and £13m. I hope it's high so some potential savour will be put off trying to buy them on the cheap.

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

[CropleyWasGod]

The £10m loan of UBIG to Hearts has a back to back one between Ukio Bankas and UBIG. There are also £22m and £8.8m loans with a similar structure that I mentioned above but UBIG have converted to shares/forgiven to Hearts. Ukio Bankas hold the shares in this conversion against the £40.8m (22 + + 8.8 + 10) lent to UBIG that was lent on to Hearts.

Sorry, I'm still not hearing you.

Is the £10m loan from UKIO to HMFC secured? It could be important.

[Treadstone]

Sorry, I'm still not hearing you.

Is the £10m loan from UKIO to HMFC secured? It could be important.

I assume there is a growing number of us thinking that the £10m loan is now unsecured as to give them the power to hold all the voting aces in a CVA. Please tell me i am wrong.:confused:

[Caversham Green]

Sorry, I'm still not hearing you.

Is the £10m loan from UKIO to HMFC secured? It could be important.

According to Fedotovas and the note in the accounts the £10m is unsecured, but that doesn't appear to tie in with what's been lodged at Companies House and makes a nonsense of the £6.8m specified as transferred security back in December. My best guess now is that it's not secured.

As you say, £10m unsecured debt due to UBIG would give them the casting vote in a CVA so it is potentially important if HoMFC themselves go into administration - they could actually come out of it again.

[Baker9]

Great article in the Scottish Daily Mail (no link) - the first one I have seen getting right to the core of their problems - based around last night's AGM.
Three articles covering 2 pages with headings 'Fans accept Gorgie grief', 'Fedotovas warns of worthless shares', 'Hearts ask fans to fill £2.5m gap'. Worth nipping out to get one!

[JeMeSouviens]

I assume there is a growing number of us thinking that the £10m loan is now unsecured as to give them the power to hold all the voting aces in a CVA. Please tell me i am wrong.:confused:

Where "them" = the Lithquidators. Not necessarily going to be Yam-favourable.

Reminder: Yam accounts are here http://www.scribd.com/doc/140824200/Hearts-Accounts-2011-12

I'm sure Cav will do proper analysis but in the meatime there are 2 relevant bits that I can see:

Under Note 11 (amounts falling due within 1 year):


During the year the balance owed to UAB Ukio Bankas Investicine Grupe was secured by a standard security over Tynecastle Stadium and a floating charge across the assets of the company. Since the year end these securities have been satisfied and replaced with new securities as explained in note 24.

Under Note 24 (post balance sheet events):


Since the year end £15.0 milion of debt due to the company's parent company UAB Ukio Bankas Investicine Grupe has been transferred to AB Ukio Bankas. This debt now falls due for repayment in full on 31 December 2015 and attracts interest of 4.0% per annum payable quarterly. In addition, the security held by UAB Ukio Bankas Investicine Grupe over Tynecastle Stadium has been transferred to AB Ukio Bankas. AB Ukio Bankas also holds a floating charge across the assets of the company and a share pledge agreement in relation to 29.9% of the company's share capital. AB Ukio Bankas entered administration in February 2013.

[Caversham Green]

http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/dfcforum/topic.asp?whichpage=1.7&TOPIC_ID=31891

I assume the post you refer to is this one:


Originally posted by Some peh muncher
PICKED THIS UP FROM THE HERALD ONLINE FROM A PHIL LAWRENCE WHO IS BASED IN LITHUANIA!! Very, very, very interesting and I "think" this will come down to a similar vote to last year between "money" and "sporting integrity"

What has repeatedly been missed and never explored to any degree is the attitude with which the legal system treats defaulting companies in Lithuania. The country has a codified civil law legal system which, although based on some Western models, is maturing as a system in its own rights. The very suggestion that a company which has requested to be declared as insolvent would NOT be declared so is to completely ignore the law of that land. And clutch at utterly non-existent straws.

In Eastern European business circles it is the norm to try to walk away from debt or financial delinquency and the very fact that UBIG has requested insolvency illustrates that those at the helm have been completely backed into a corner and have no other escape route. It is a 100% certainty that there is no way back for UBIG, but frankly anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention to the company's conduct over the past years would have known that t be the case. After Snoras Bankas hit the buffers it was simply a matter of time before Ukio Bankas and UBIG did similar.

In terms of the Lithuanian process the insolvency of UBIG is done and dusted - the only imponderable is the timetable.

But what strikes me as the oddest thing is that none of the Scottish newspapers or other media outlets have picked up the phone and engaged with Pricewaterhouse Coopers, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu (both with offices in Edinburgh and the latter has been Ukio's own auditor) or other international auditors which all have offices in Lithuania. A couple of calls in that direction would confirm what I have outlined above. Instead we have input from people like Ian Murray who frankly seems not to give two hoots about Lithuanian due process and plays to his constituency as the saviour of Hearts when the long and the short of it is that he has not added anything factual to the debate. The media has been as guilty as any party in clouding the issue here.

Get quotes from the auditing firms who deal with this stuff every day of every week of every month and end the confusion about the "is it or isn't it" insolvency event.

As for the SPL's decision on Monday, what price a postponement to a later date?

The approach he describes is the only one that I can see makes any practical sense and makes the SPL's verdict look very questionable. I'm going to take a lot of convincing that the SPL got it right.

[JeMeSouviens]

I assume the post you refer to is this one:



The approach he describes is the only one that I can see makes any practical sense and makes the SPL's verdict look very questionable. I'm going to take a lot of convincing that the SPL got it right.

Well seen you're not a lawyer! :wink:

As per the Huns, I think the SPL has been frantically scrabbling around looking for new ways not to implement its own rules. :rolleyes:

[Sanger]

Sorry, I'm still not hearing you.

Is the £10m loan from UKIO to HMFC secured? It could be important.


not the Hearts to UBIG but the UBIG to Ukio Bankas leg is by on the claim Ukio Bankas have on Heart's shares as security of loans to UBIG that they made on to Hearts. Hearts may be better to go into administration before UBIG declared bankrupt to stop the administrators of Ukio Bankas claiming the shares and then disposing of the club. If they did this all the would loose is Tynecastle as this is secured to Ukio Bankas for £15m loan made directly to Hearts.

[Liberal Hibby]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

You believe wrong - Tynecastle was valued at £20 million for housing when Cala were going to deal with the pieman. That was at the top of the market, so it will be less now - but not that much.

[s.a.m]

Where "them" = the Lithquidators. Not necessarily going to be Yam-favourable.

Reminder: Yam accounts are here http://www.scribd.com/doc/140824200/Hearts-Accounts-2011-12

I'm sure Cav will do proper analysis but in the meatime there are 2 relevant bits that I can see:

Under Note 11 (amounts falling due within 1 year):



Under Note 24 (post balance sheet events):

We need a bespoke version of Excel, with new IF calculations for 'Vlad friendly' versus 'Lith-man/woman-on-the-street friendly'. :greengrin

[Sergio sledge]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

I posted this in post #12680 (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?247788-Financial-meltdown-(SPL-rule-no-points-deduction-in-12-13)&p=3586608&viewfull=1#post3586608) in this thread:


the report produced for HoMFC and the council states:

"Under this site specific risk assessment of the ethanol storage, the majority of the site falls out with the consultation zones arising from a major event in the ethanol storage tanks. Our assessment concludes that the effects of a major accident hazard in the ethanol storage tanks to be acceptable and should not therefore place a restriction on any re-development of the majority of the site. It is recommended that the club officials discuss the findings of this report with the local planning authority."

Basically, whilst the exclusion zone covers most of Tynecastle at present, this is based on the zone being taken from the edge of the distillery site, and not the specific risk within the distillery site (the ethanol tanks) if the zone is taken from the risk within the distillery site, then the majority of Tynecastle is out with the exclusion zone and could be redeveloped for any use. This could be used by a developer to support any development they wanted. At the time of this report, HoMFC themselves stated that the site would be worth around £8m-£10m on the open market, so I would imagine the administrator of UKIO will be looking to fully satisfy the £6.8m security they have over the ground. The FOH or whoever wishes to bid will have to come up with at least that much to get the club.

See the report here (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club). They are relying on the planning department allowing a relaxation, but considering the CEC managed to get planning for the redevelopment of the Tynecastle High School based on the same analysis, then I'd imagine they wouldn't have many grounds for a rejection.

[Just Alf]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.


You believe wrong - Tynecastle was valued at £20 million for housing when Cala were going to deal with the pieman. That was at the top of the market, so it will be less now - but not that much.

Correct... There's a thread on keekback where one of the FOH bod's says they commissioned a valuation at the tail end of last year and it came in around £6.5-7 million..... oh and as an aside he also put to bed the "no chance" of getting housing permission bit as well. The document I saw quoted was really clear in that the issue is with space/clearance around one particular chemical storage tank and that only impacts a small corner of the site which would most likely be used as soft landscaping or residents parking in any case.

Also (I should really keep a track of all these when I spot them so it would be easier to link to it :-( ) ...... while no official planning application was made at the time, HoMFC/CALA did get a letter from the council saying there'd be no issues with a change of use planning application (do they call it a letter of comfort or summat?) ..... pieman produced it at the time to show the bid was serious etc etc....

[Mikey]

Correct... There's a thread on keekback where one of the FOH bod's says they commissioned a valuation at the tail end of last year and it came in around £6.5-7 million..... oh and as an aside he also put to bed the "no chance" of getting housing permission bit as well. The document I saw quoted was really clear in that the issue is with space/clearance around one particular chemical storage tank and that only impacts a small corner of the site which would most likely be used as soft landscaping or residents parking in any case.

Also (I should really keep a track of all these when I spot them so it would be easier to link to it :-( ) ...... while no official planning application was made at the time, HoMFC/CALA did get a letter from the council saying there'd be no issues with a change of use planning application (do they call it a letter of comfort or summat?) ..... pieman produced it at the time to show the bid was serious etc etc....

It suited them to get as much as they could for it back then and the council were happy to help.

Now they're talking it down as they want to buy the whole lot, debt free, for this mythical £2m figure they keep repeating.

That piece of land will be very attractive to a property developer, even if it does mean sitting on it for a few years while emotions die down before building. We're still not far off the bottom of the market and there's money to be made from it in the medium term.

[Part/Time Supporter]

No de facto about it. They owe a huge amount of money with no plan or means to repay it, they openly admit to needing charity payments to cover their day to day operating costs and have no prospect of raising cash against their assets. That's not a viable business in any sense of the word and the SPL are burying their heads .

The SPL have no powers to do anything else.

[Mikey]

Am I right in thinking that the SPL left themselves a bit of room to still apply the 18 point deduction this season, rather than hit them with 15 points next season? It's obvious that they're not going to see out next season.

[Treadstone]

Am I right in thinking that the SPL left themselves a bit of room to still apply the 18 point deduction this season, rather than hit them with 15 points next season? It's obvious that they're not going to see out next season.

Further to that can two separate admin deductions be applied ? Seems a bit unfair but well c'est la vie and all that.:cb

[Treadstone]

Where "them" = the Lithquidators. Not necessarily going to be Yam-favourable.



Cheers.:aok:

In my haste I was thinking 'them' as 'them' and not the liquidators. The laughable 'political angle' :faf: will surely be trotted out again. I have no such worries on that score.

[Onion]

It suited them to get as much as they could for it back then and the council were happy to help.

Now they're talking it down as they want to buy the whole lot, debt free, for this mythical £2m figure they keep repeating.

That piece of land will be very attractive to a property developer, even if it does mean sitting on it for a few years while emotions die down before building. We're still not far off the bottom of the market and there's money to be made from it in the medium term.

Wouldn't be ironic of STF took an interest in the PBS development opportunity and agreed a deal with the Lith Admins for the land. £5 or 6 M would be a reasonable starting bid, and maybe a little payback for the way he was shafted by the Yam Council when he tried to buy the land behind ER :greengrin

[Just Alf]

Am I right in thinking that the SPL left themselves a bit of room to still apply the 18 point deduction this season, rather than hit them with 15 points next season? It's obvious that they're not going to see out next season.

You probably read this at some point

"HEARTS will begin next season in the Scottish Premier League – but with a 15-point deduction if majority shareholder UBIG is declared insolvent.



That is the all-but-certain position faced by the Tynecastle club after an SPL board meeting earlier today ruled that UBIG had yet to suffer an “insolvency event”.

The board left itself the option of reconsidering the situation in the unlikely situation of further evidence being unearthed about UBIG’s current standing in Lithuanian law. Crucially, however, if it were to have an effect on this season’s league table, that evidence would have to relate to events which occurred before the last SPL fixtures were played at the weekend. Under rules adopted last summer, Hearts would be docked a third of last season’s points total of 51 (the figure of 17.3 would be rounded up to 18) if they or a parent company were deemed to have become insolvent before the end of the season."

from the Hootsmon .... http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-to-stay-in-spl-but-face-15-point-deduction-1-2937144

[Mikey]

There's a very good point about the recent share issue been raised on the PM board.

They've been saying for months that the share certificates were about to be sent out, and that news has mostly come out through their pal Barry. However, they're now saying that the process couldn't be completed until yesterday's AGM was out of the way and only now can they work towards sending them out.

So either Barry has been told a pack of lies by Hearts knowing full well that he would print them, or Barry himself is in on it and knew that what he was printing was a load of nonsense.

If it's the former then any journalist with any balls whatsoever would be on the phone to David Southern right after the AGM asking why he'd been used in that way. If it's the latter then his boss should fire him right away.

Maybe someone could tweet him and ask.

[Mikey]

You probably read this at some point

"HEARTS will begin next season in the Scottish Premier League – but with a 15-point deduction if majority shareholder UBIG is declared insolvent.



That is the all-but-certain position faced by the Tynecastle club after an SPL board meeting earlier today ruled that UBIG had yet to suffer an “insolvency event”.

The board left itself the option of reconsidering the situation in the unlikely situation of further evidence being unearthed about UBIG’s current standing in Lithuanian law. Crucially, however, if it were to have an effect on this season’s league table, that evidence would have to relate to events which occurred before the last SPL fixtures were played at the weekend. Under rules adopted last summer, Hearts would be docked a third of last season’s points total of 51 (the figure of 17.3 would be rounded up to 18) if they or a parent company were deemed to have become insolvent before the end of the season."

from the Hootsmon .... http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-to-stay-in-spl-but-face-15-point-deduction-1-2937144

As mentioned above, under Lith law what UBIG has done is effectively an insolvency event. It's just not how it's done here.

The SPL should get them out the league before they implode or we'll have 11 teams completing next season. And that would also be of more help to Hearts as 9 months with no game whatsoever would be a huge obstacle for them.

Having said that, I'm warming to having a Hearts team mostly made up of the kids that finished 9th in the U20 league, less £1m of their best talent (that's a joke btw), trying to make up a 15 point deficit.

[Keith_M]

Sorry guv,next time I see you i'll dof me flat cap and give you a wave with me sweep in brush


The Janitor comment, I would presume, is because Ralph Topping claimed not to know whether it was someone authorised to register UBIG as insolvent or 'just a janitor' (his words). If there is actually no-one running the affairs at UBUG, then it must have been said Janitor that forced through Rodney's re-appointment.

This shows the SPLs decision on Monday, and its so-called 'investigative process', for the farce that it actually was.

[gogsy23]

Does anyone know the likely value of the land that the PBS Wongadome sits on? I think this value will be a major factor if they live or die. Some YAMs have it between £2m and £13m. I hope it's high so some potential savour will be put off trying to buy them on the cheap.

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

[Hibbyradge]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

It was worth £20m 9 years ago.

[Keith_M]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.


Then how does that tally with the 18M the Pieman was going to sell it for, for the purpose of building houses on?

[Cabbage East]

There's a very good point about the recent share issue been raised on the PM board.

They've been saying for months that the share certificates were about to be sent out, and that news has mostly come out through their pal Barry. However, they're now saying that the process couldn't be completed until yesterday's AGM was out of the way and only now can they work towards sending them out.

So either Barry has been told a pack of lies by Hearts knowing full well that he would print them, or Barry himself is in on it and knew that what he was printing was a load of nonsense.

If it's the former then any journalist with any balls whatsoever would be on the phone to David Southern right after the AGM asking why he'd been used in that way. If it's the latter then his boss should fire him right away.

Maybe someone could tweet him and ask.

I believe Barry Anderson is on the payroll at Hearts in some capacity. Think the Traynor arrangement with the huns. In fact, someone tweeted something similar to Barry the other day, this was one of the many tweets that he conveniently ignored.

[Treadstone]

There's a very good point about the recent share issue been raised on the PM board.

They've been saying for months that the share certificates were about to be sent out, and that news has mostly come out through their pal Barry. However, they're now saying that the process couldn't be completed until yesterday's AGM was out of the way and only now can they work towards sending them out.

So either Barry has been told a pack of lies by Hearts knowing full well that he would print them, or Barry himself is in on it and knew that what he was printing was a load of nonsense.

If it's the former then any journalist with any balls whatsoever would be on the phone to David Southern right after the AGM asking why he'd been used in that way. If it's the latter then his boss should fire him right away.

Maybe someone could tweet him and ask.

Easy Mikey.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)23 Apr (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/326747826631630848)
@Elblondiso (https://twitter.com/Elblondiso) Shares won't be registered till AGM (date TBC). Then Companies House must be informed within 1 month by law.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)4 May (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/330672916683431936)
New #Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) shareholders will get certificates a few weeks after AGM on 23 May, according to #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash). Existing shareholders only at AGM.

Although he should be putting in some caveats after tweeting this and linking a story that turned out not to be accurate.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)22 Apr (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/326388398778634241)
"@jj_bruce (https://twitter.com/jj_bruce) @BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) When will the EEN be covering the Hearts share issue?" > http://bit.ly/YGDLMK (http://t.co/jA9N2Ar79K)

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-share-certificates-to-be-issued-after-agm-1-2849430

[Mikey]

Easy Mikey.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)23 Apr (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/326747826631630848)
@Elblondiso (https://twitter.com/Elblondiso) Shares won't be registered till AGM (date TBC). Then Companies House must be informed within 1 month by law.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)4 May (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/330672916683431936)
New #Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) shareholders will get certificates a few weeks after AGM on 23 May, according to #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash). Existing shareholders only at AGM.

Although he should be putting in some caveats after tweeting this and linking a story that turned out not to be accurate.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)22 Apr (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/326388398778634241)
"@jj_bruce (https://twitter.com/jj_bruce) @BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) When will the EEN be covering the Hearts share issue?" > http://bit.ly/YGDLMK (http://t.co/jA9N2Ar79K)

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-share-certificates-to-be-issued-after-agm-1-2849430


He was wittering on about them being sent out in March at one point.

[Treadstone]

He was wittering on about them being sent out in March at one point.

Aye can't quite find that on the tweet machine at the moment. When I do i will re-tweet it and see if he replies.

[Gus Fring]

Am I right in thinking that the SPL left themselves a bit of room to still apply the 18 point deduction this season, rather than hit them with 15 points next season? It's obvious that they're not going to see out next season.


:agree:

Ralph Topping would not be drawn on whether the points deduction would be applied this season or next, he made no definitive statements. He did however say that they would revisit it once the matter progresses in lithuania.

Once again, after speaking to my source within Hampde, the SPL have not done anything to let hearts off or bottled this decision. Quite the opposite. As it stands UBIG have not officially suffered an insolvency event yet, it may be inevitable but that doesn't give the SPL any right to punish before it actually happens.

The SPL need to make sure their bums are covered because if they had have applied the 18 point deduction last friday, Hearts would have had it overturned in court with the greatest of ease. The SPL doesn't need that hassle because that brings with it the ever watchful eye of FIFA and after last years debacle with Rangers, it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Stevie Reid]

Then how does that tally with the 18M the Pieman was going to sell it for, for the purpose of building houses on?

Was a minimum of £20.5M according to this, though it does say that it's subject to consent and had been valued at £16M: -

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20040819/official-statement_2241384_553846

[Treadstone]

He was wittering on about them being sent out in March at one point.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)21 Feb (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/304619097658884096)
#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) fans: I'm told share certificates will be posted out around mid-March (for those asking) #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)

Check the date!

[Fife-Hibee]

Wouldn't be ironic of STF took an interest in the PBS development opportunity and agreed a deal with the Lith Admins for the land. £5 or 6 M would be a reasonable starting bid, and maybe a little payback for the way he was shafted by the Yam Council when he tried to buy the land behind ER :greengrin

I would love this to happen, just a pitty STF is not as shallow as they f...ers !

[Hibbyradge]

Less than 9 years ago, Chris Robinson agreed to sell Tynecastle for £20.5m. See here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/3656082.stm)

How much is it worth today? I don't know how much property prices have fallen since then, but for FOH to suggest it's only worth £2m is ludicrous.

If it's being offered at that price maybe I should see my bank manager... :hmmm:

:wink:


edit - I foiund this cartoon from 2004

http://www.boylecartoon.co.uk/book/hearts-hibs/osama96184.jpg

[Hibbyradge]

Was a minimum of £20.5M according to this, though it does say that it's subject to consent and had been valued at £16M: -

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20040819/official-statement_2241384_553846

Ah, I posted a separate thread with an article from the Evening News.

I thought the information needed aired...

[Gus Fring]

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)21 Feb (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8/status/304619097658884096)
#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) fans: I'm told share certificates will be posted out around mid-March (for those asking) #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)

Check the date!

If ever any more proof was needed that Barry just tweets and writes what he's told without questioning it. He's been lied to by Hearts which in turn has meant he's lied to his readers. He of course claimed yesterday he doesn't lie but I think this proves he does.

[Mikey]

The deal they want is £2m with no debt.

It's bonkerstastic.

[Keith_M]

I think the main claim, which they're putting their hopes on, is that the land Tynecastle is on is not worth anything other than for football use. While the value may not be 20M any more, the mere fact that this was already offered for the land uder such 'non football use' kills that lie instantly.


Sorry guys, other people might want to bid for the land after all.

[Treadstone]

One half of Yams current two man board earning his keep.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-build-their-hopes-on-new-man-1013754 (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-build-their-hopes-on-new-man-1013754)

"The new director, Vitalijus Vasiliauskas, will manage the £51million project that includes the building of a..."
10,000 main stand http://officeimg.vo.msecnd.net/en-gb/files/309/220/ZA001117940.gif
hotel http://officeimg.vo.msecnd.net/en-gb/files/309/220/ZA001117940.gif
office space http://officeimg.vo.msecnd.net/en-gb/files/309/220/ZA001117940.gif
residential apartments. http://officeimg.vo.msecnd.net/en-gb/files/309/220/ZA001117940.gif

Job done then.

[Craig_in_Prague]

9977

[Craig_in_Prague]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559

Allisbarry

[Stevie Reid]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559

Allisbarry

They have "between 5 and 10 million available"? So they may actually have twice as much as the lower figure? You think they would have more an idea, really. Not vague at all.

[Mikey]

They have "between 5 and 10 million available"? So they may actually have twice as much as the lower figure? You think they would have more an idea, really. Not vague at all.

Not very good at bargaining, are they?

I'll give you between £5m and £10m.

Thanks, I'll take £10m.

[gogsy23]

It was worth £20m 9 years ago.


Then how does that tally with the 18M the Pieman was going to sell it for, for the purpose of building houses on?

Given all the new housing in the area im not sure there is the demand for the new housing as such,that and the fact the prices have plummeted for land value and i very much doubt they would get permission to build anyway.

Reckon realistically its worth circa £5-6 million. Not sure how that would work with the 10 million that is secured against the stadium.

Its also in the blast zone which is related to the aforementioned neighbouring sites.

[Stevie Reid]

Not very good at bargaining, are they?

I'll give you between £5m and £10m.

Thanks, I'll take £10m.

There are some outstanding moments in that article: -

The Scandinavians’ plan would be to offer a cash payment for the majority shareholding without any debt and become Hearts’ new owners, and they have between £5m and £10m available. “That valuation is not completely wrong,” said a source close to the consortium today.

“We have a strategy for how to get the shareholding. Whether it will work is another question. There is the possibility some of the shareholding could be transferred to Ukio Bankas. As far as we know, that transaction hasn’t happened yet so the shares are still formally owned by UBIG. Our strategy involves taking over a club which is free of debt to Ukio Bankas and UBIG. Obviously that is going to take some sort of cash payment to deal with the current debt. How big that cash payment (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559#) will be is still an open question.

“What is very clear is that the consortium would not enter a deal where Ukio Bankas or UBIG would maintain any of the debt after a deal was done. If there is any debt left, it would not be to those parties. That part of it would need to be closed completely.

“We have not negotiated a price, we are not anywhere close to that yet. Probably not a lot is going to happen until the UBIG situation is resolved. We believe that once things get started we should be in a pretty good position. We think we know the full picture now. The administrators of both parties will have a say in this. There may also be other parties involved.”

The consortium would be able to move “within days” once the picture relating to UBIG becomes clearer. “They wouldn’t take the bother to do all this work for nothing but a decision has not been made. They will walk away if something happens to change the business (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559#) completely,” said the source.

“They are still investigating whether this could be a profitable business. Once the UBIG situation becomes clear, we would have initial talks to get a feel for what offer should be placed. They could move within days to close negotiations once they decide to make an offer, but we have not reached that point yet. These people are Hearts fans from the outset but they are also businessmen looking to do a good deal. They are not looking to throw their money away.”

Of the group, the four Norwegians have studied in Edinburgh and consider themselves active supporters of Hearts. The youngest member of the consortium is said to be “around 40”, with the oldest in his 60s.

Meanwhile, Hearts manager Gary Locke has held talks with former team-mate David Weir about becoming the club’s new assistant manager. Weir, a youth coach at Everton, is in contention to replace David Moyes at Goodison Park but would consider returning to Tynecastle under Locke.

[easty]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559

Allisbarry

Of the group, the four Norwegians have studied in Edinburgh and consider themselves active supporters of Hearts. The youngest member of the consortium is said to be “around 40”, with the oldest in his 60s.


Top class journalism as ever.

Is the youngest member a 'The Stig from Top Gear' type of person? 'he's said to be around 40 years old, loves Hearts and some say he can milk money out of his nipples and waste it on whatever he wants.....all we know is Barry Andersons a welt".

[Mikey]

Meanwhile, Hearts manager Gary Locke has held talks with former team-mate David Weir about becoming the club’s new assistant manager. Weir, a youth coach at Everton, is in contention to replace David Moyes at Goodison Park but would consider returning to Tynecastle under Locke.

Does the bit in red actually say what I think it says?

[Treadstone]

There are some outstanding moments in that article: -

The Scandinavians’ plan would be to offer a cash payment for the majority shareholding without any debt and become Hearts’ new owners, and they have between £5m and £10m available. “That valuation is not completely wrong,” said a source close to the consortium today.


Take any word out of that sentence apart from 'wrong' and it makes more sense. :faf:

[Stevie Reid]

Does the bit in red actually say what I think it says?

Unbelievable, isn't it? The SSN correspondent who covers Liverpool said the other day that Weir had been interviewed for the Everton job along with Stubbs and Neville, the three internal candidates. I'm sure he's itching to get back to Tynie.

[Hibbyradge]

Given all the new housing in the area im not sure there is the demand for the new housing as such,that and the fact the prices have plummeted for land value and i very much doubt they would get permission to build anyway.

Reckon realistically its worth circa £5-6 million. Not sure how that would work with the 10 million that is secured against the stadium.

Its also in the blast zone which is related to the aforementioned neighbouring sites.

Sorry, but what has happened between September 2004 and now that has reduced the value of the land to a quarter of it's previous price?

Has your house dropped by 75%?

The demand for new housing has never been greater, particularly affordable property. The population of Edinburgh, Scotland and the UK is increasing year on year.

Blast zone? What blast zone and wasn't it there 8 years ago?

[scoopyboy]

Given all the new housing in the area im not sure there is the demand for the new housing as such,that and the fact the prices have plummeted for land value and i very much doubt they would get permission to build anyway.

Reckon realistically its worth circa £5-6 million. Not sure how that would work with the 10 million that is secured against the stadium.

Its also in the blast zone which is related to the aforementioned neighbouring sites.

Can you tell me where this blast zone of yours actually is?

There is Murrayfield on one side, a recently built Sainsburys on another, housing on another and a brand new High school on the other.

I would be really interested where the boundaries of the zone are.

[Crazyhorse]

Does the bit in red actually say what I think it says?

Yes unbelievable: 'Sorry I'm dropping out of the running for the Everton job because Hearts want me as assistant to the tactical genius that is Gary 'Pish on my face please' Locke.

Can we compile a list of Bandersonballs?

[Gus Fring]

Given all the new housing in the area im not sure there is the demand for the new housing as such,that and the fact the prices have plummeted for land value and i very much doubt they would get permission to build anyway.

Reckon realistically its worth circa £5-6 million. Not sure how that would work with the 10 million that is secured against the stadium.

Its also in the blast zone which is related to the aforementioned neighbouring sites.

Is that you Barry?

[Gus Fring]

Yes unbelievable: 'Sorry I'm dropping out of the running for the Everton job because Hearts want me as assistant to the tactical genius that is Gary 'Pish on my face please' Locke.

Can we compile a list of Bandersonballs?

The Andybarryson_8 account has retweeted a few today,




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3671297350/aa176e16f5636ae8b16c93838c47a7e4_normal.jpegAndy Barryson ‏@AndyBarryson_8 (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)
RT @BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) That blocks any sale of club for now. (2/2)And yit, Barry still writes aboot takeover bids?




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3671297350/aa176e16f5636ae8b16c93838c47a7e4_normal.jpegAndy Barryson ‏@AndyBarryson_8 (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)
RT @BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)As expected, Vladimir Romanov's assets have been frozen in Lithuania, including his #Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) shares. (1/2)




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3671297350/aa176e16f5636ae8b16c93838c47a7e4_normal.jpegAndy Barryson ‏@AndyBarryson_8 (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)26m (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8/status/337893098082418688)
RT @barryanderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) Think it may be #SFA (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SFA&src=hash) policy not to pick anyone with criminal charges pending. Barry Bannan left out when caught drink...




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3671297350/aa176e16f5636ae8b16c93838c47a7e4_normal.jpegAndy Barryson ‏@AndyBarryson_8 (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)
RT @BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8) Crowd at Tynecastle tonight is 10,080. #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash) #SPL (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SPL&src=hash)




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3671297350/aa176e16f5636ae8b16c93838c47a7e4_normal.jpegAndy Barryson ‏@AndyBarryson_8 (https://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)
RT "@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) fans: I'm told share certificates will be posted out around mid-March (for those asking) #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)"

[Treadstone]

The Andybarryson_8 account has retweeted a few today,


Re-tweeted the mid march shares one myself. Should put a stop to some of his flippant replies to anyone that challenges him on facts.

[Sergio sledge]

Can you tell me where this blast zone of yours actually is?

There is Murrayfield on one side, a recently built Sainsburys on another, housing on another and a brand new High school on the other.

I would be really interested where the boundaries of the zone are.

See my previous post (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?247788-Financial-meltdown-(SPL-rule-no-points-deduction-in-12-13)&p=3618011&viewfull=1#post3618011) in reply to gogsy23, which he/she must have missed. The exclusion zone exists, but is a generic zone based on current guidance. Specific site risk assessments commissioned by Hearts and the CEC have determined that in reality this zone can be reduced. If you can be bothered, pages 60-63 of the joint report that I linked in my previous post has all the details. CEC applied for permission to redevelop the Tyncastle High School site and it was granted on a similar basis. A school or football stadium is considered higher risk than housing as the density of people on the site is higher and current guidance says that any development that would lessen risk is likely to be considered in a favourable light.

[Gus Fring]

Re-tweeted the mid march shares one myself. Should put a stop to some of his flippant replies to anyone that challenges him on facts.

It was funny yesterday when he retweeted that bloke and it just ended up with Barry getting even more abuse. Barry telling everyone he doesn't lie is like Jimmy Saville saying he's a trustworthy babysitter.

He flip flops between Hearts being "Self-sufficient" and that there's no real issues at tynecastle but then the next day tells us theres people desperate to buy the club but they don't know if its profitable? Surely they should just ask Barry and he'll explain it all to them?

Hearts fans always believe the good news (takeover bids, fanciful player targets) but dismiss the bad news (financial trouble) as a load of cobblers.

[Treadstone]

It was funny yesterday when he retweeted that bloke and it just ended up with Barry getting even more abuse. Barry telling everyone he doesn't lie is like Jimmy Saville saying he's a trustworthy babysitter.

He flip flops between Hearts being "Self-sufficient" and that there's no real issues at tynecastle but then the next day tells us theres people desperate to buy the club but they don't know if its profitable? Surely they should just ask Barry and he'll explain it all to them?

Hearts fans always believe the good news (takeover bids, fanciful player targets) but dismiss the bad news (financial trouble) as a load of cobblers.

:thumbsup:The comments underneath the latest takeover a prime example.

[Liberal Hibby]

There are some outstanding moments in that article: -

“We have not negotiated a price, we are not anywhere close to that yet. Probably not a lot is going to happen until the UBIG situation is resolved. We believe that once things get started we should be in a pretty good position. We think we know the full picture now. The administrators of both parties will have a say in this. There may also be other parties involved.”



So who are the administrators of 'both parties'? One is Ukio and the other I assume is UBIG - which suggests they are a lot further down the road than 'expressing an intention'...

[Sanger]

Sorry, but what has happened between September 2004 and now that has reduced the value of the land to a quarter of it's previous price?

Has your house dropped by 75%?

The demand for new housing has never been greater, particularly affordable property. The population of Edinburgh, Scotland and the UK is increasing year on year.

Blast zone? What blast zone and wasn't it there 8 years ago?

the floating charge of the UKio Bankas claim is close to its valuation - around £8m. So anybody wanting to buy Hearts in the liquidation needs to pay another £2m on top of that for the club plus have sufficient funds to pay off HMRC and fill the funding gap for next season. In total they need about £14 million.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It was funny yesterday when he retweeted that bloke and it just ended up with Barry getting even more abuse. Barry telling everyone he doesn't lie is like Jimmy Saville saying he's a trustworthy babysitter.

He flip flops between Hearts being "Self-sufficient" and that there's no real issues at tynecastle but then the next day tells us theres people desperate to buy the club but they don't know if its profitable? Surely they should just ask Barry and he'll explain it all to them?

Hearts fans always believe the good news (takeover bids, fanciful player targets) but dismiss the bad news (financial trouble) as a load of cobblers.

Eh, 5-1,111 years.....erm.....it just is right!

[Gus Fring]

So who are the administrators of 'both parties'? One is Ukio and the other I assume is UBIG - which suggests they are a lot further down the road than 'expressing an intention'...

There will be an adminstrator appointed at UBIG at some point but this hasn't been done yet.

[Moulin Yarns]

You probably read this at some point

"HEARTS will begin next season in the Scottish Premier League – but with a 15-point deduction if majority shareholder UBIG is declared insolvent.



That is the all-but-certain position faced by the Tynecastle club after an SPL board meeting earlier today ruled that UBIG had yet to suffer an “insolvency event”.

The board left itself the option of reconsidering the situation in the unlikely situation of further evidence being unearthed about UBIG’s current standing in Lithuanian law. Crucially, however, if it were to have an effect on this season’s league table, that evidence would have to relate to events which occurred before the last SPL fixtures were played at the weekend. Under rules adopted last summer, Hearts would be docked a third of last season’s points total of 51 (the figure of 17.3 would be rounded up to 18) if they or a parent company were deemed to have become insolvent before the end of the season."

from the Hootsmon .... http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-to-stay-in-spl-but-face-15-point-deduction-1-2937144

I prefer this article form #allisbarry himself

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/consortium-willing-to-pay-5m-10m-for-hearts-1-2943559

in particular.....

The consortium is also speaking with potential administrators of UBIG after the company declared itself insolvent last week

[Liberal Hibby]

There will be an adminstrator appointed at UBIG at some point but this hasn't been done yet.

Ah - point taken, but earlier in the article it implies they've been in discussions with the people who are lined up to administer UBIG. If they have identified administrators/liquidators - it surely has to be a fully functioning insolvency event?

[Aldo]

This is the bit I can't get my head round


Fudevastos or whatever his name is has been saying that there is/will be a 2.5 million pound.

Now is that on top of what ST money they will bring in or is that 2.5 million extra just to survive till then end of season?

If this is indeed the case they cannot be self sufficient.

[Gus Fring]

Ah - point taken, but earlier in the article it implies they've been in discussions with the people who are lined up to administer UBIG. If they have identified administrators/liquidators - it surely has to be a fully functioning insolvency event?

I think you're forgetting who wrote the article.

[YehButNoBut]

They really live in dream land don't they and the Yam frothers just lap it up. :yw::lolyam:

http://www.teamtalk.com/hearts/8731861/Fedotovas-eyes-top-three-spot

Fedotovas eyes top-three spot

Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas has targeted a top-three finish next season - despite the threat of a 15-point deduction.

Majority shareholder UBIG last week indicated its insolvency and Hearts could face Scottish Premier League punishment if that declaration is ratified in the Lithuanian courts in the coming weeks.

Hearts were already cutting back on wage costs for the second year running after finishing 10th in the SPL but Fedotovas expects major improvement under Gary Locke, who replaced John McGlynn as manager in March.

Fedotovas told Hearts TV: "I think we really need to be targeting at least the top-three places.

"Obviously this will be pretty much a new team so it will be important how Gary will be able to glue new faces into a good team and deliver results.

"I believe it's not the first time it has happened in football. Reconstruction of a football team happens a lot everywhere and we are viewing it positively.

"Having in mind the result we had last season, this is really painful to speak about it, but we are looking to radically improve this situation next season."

Hearts have released Mehdi Taouil, Danny Grainger, Darren Barr, Gordon Smith and Fraser Mullen from their squad but Fedotovas has promised replacements.

"We are clearing up in order for new people to come in who can hopefully improve the squad and make it better in terms of results from last season," he said.

"The faces are identified and people are working to get the negotiations right and get the deals done.

"We are very hopeful we will be able to start announcing people coming in and be ready for the next season."

[Gus Fring]

Andy Barryson @AndyBarryson_8
(http://twitter.com/AndyBarryson_8)"Hearts target top 3 finish" am targetting that when a get hame Katy Perry and Holly Willoughby are waitin tae nosh me oaf. No likely tho

:faf:

[gogsy23]

Is that you Barry?

Extremely harsh.....and no its not.

[gogsy23]

See my previous post (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?247788-Financial-meltdown-(SPL-rule-no-points-deduction-in-12-13)&p=3618011&viewfull=1#post3618011) in reply to gogsy23, which he/she must have missed. The exclusion zone exists, but is a generic zone based on current guidance. Specific site risk assessments commissioned by Hearts and the CEC have determined that in reality this zone can be reduced. If you can be bothered, pages 60-63 of the joint report that I linked in my previous post has all the details. CEC applied for permission to redevelop the Tyncastle High School site and it was granted on a similar basis. A school or football stadium is considered higher risk than housing as the density of people on the site is higher and current guidance says that any development that would lessen risk is likely to be considered in a favourable light.

On my phone and missed the link sorry. Sounds about right sergio am sure theres a few other posts earlier in the thread.

[StevieC]

If ever any more proof was needed that Barry just tweets and writes what he's told without questioning it. He's been lied to by Hearts which in turn has meant he's lied to his readers. He of course claimed yesterday he doesn't lie but I think this proves he does.

Technically :wink: he doesn't lie .. he just forwards lies on. :greengrin

[Mikey]

Quality stuff.......


Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today confirm that Mr Roman Romanov has been re-appointed as a Director.

A poll was taken at the AGM on Thursday 23rd May to vote on Resolution 2: 'To re-appoint Mr Roman Romanov as a Director.'

The results show that 99.91% voted For the resolution, while 0.09% voted Against.


http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130524/roman-romanov-re-appointed_2241384_3189685

[MB62]

Quality stuff.......


Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today confirm that Mr Roman Romanov has been re-appointed as a Director.

A poll was taken at the AGM on Thursday 23rd May to vote on Resolution 2: 'To re-appoint Mr Roman Romanov as a Director.'

The results show that 99.91% voted For the resolution, while 0.09% voted Against.


http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130524/roman-romanov-re-appointed_2241384_3189685

:faf: :faf: :faf:

[Andy74]

They really live in dream land don't they and the Yam frothers just lap it up. :yw::lolyam:

http://www.teamtalk.com/hearts/8731861/Fedotovas-eyes-top-three-spot

Fedotovas eyes top-three spot

Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas has targeted a top-three finish next season - despite the threat of a 15-point deduction.

Majority shareholder UBIG last week indicated its insolvency and Hearts could face Scottish Premier League punishment if that declaration is ratified in the Lithuanian courts in the coming weeks.

Hearts were already cutting back on wage costs for the second year running after finishing 10th in the SPL but Fedotovas expects major improvement under Gary Locke, who replaced John McGlynn as manager in March.

Fedotovas told Hearts TV: "I think we really need to be targeting at least the top-three places.

"Obviously this will be pretty much a new team so it will be important how Gary will be able to glue new faces into a good team and deliver results.

"I believe it's not the first time it has happened in football. Reconstruction of a football team happens a lot everywhere and we are viewing it positively.

"Having in mind the result we had last season, this is really painful to speak about it, but we are looking to radically improve this situation next season."

Hearts have released Mehdi Taouil, Danny Grainger, Darren Barr, Gordon Smith and Fraser Mullen from their squad but Fedotovas has promised replacements.

"We are clearing up in order for new people to come in who can hopefully improve the squad and make it better in terms of results from last season," he said.

"The faces are identified and people are working to get the negotiations right and get the deals done.

"We are very hopeful we will be able to start announcing people coming in and be ready for the next season."

And this fits in with selling £1 million of 'talent'?

[matty_f]

Quality stuff.......


Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today confirm that Mr Roman Romanov has been re-appointed as a Director.

A poll was taken at the AGM on Thursday 23rd May to vote on Resolution 2: 'To re-appoint Mr Roman Romanov as a Director.'

The results show that 99.91% voted For the resolution, while 0.09% voted Against.




http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130524/roman-romanov-re-appointed_2241384_3189685


Total and utter contempt for the very people they're pinning their survival on.

[Crazyhorse]

Total and utter contempt for the very people they're pinning their survival on.

Quite rightly IMO

In fact no they are beneath contempt.

[Gus Fring]

Quality stuff.......


Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today confirm that Mr Roman Romanov has been re-appointed as a Director.

A poll was taken at the AGM on Thursday 23rd May to vote on Resolution 2: 'To re-appoint Mr Roman Romanov as a Director.'

The results show that 99.91% voted For the resolution, while 0.09% voted Against.


http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130524/roman-romanov-re-appointed_2241384_3189685

I smell a rat. Why would they bother doing this if they intend on selling up? Especially when it was voted down

[CropleyWasGod]

I smell a rat. Why would they bother doing this if they intend on selling up? Especially when it was voted down

It wasn't voted down, though. The absentee shareholders voted him in, presumably by proxy.

[Devilstorment]

Meanwhile, Hearts manager Gary Locke has held talks with former team-mate David Weir about becoming the club’s new assistant manager. Weir, a youth coach at Everton, is in contention to replace David Moyes at Goodison Park but would consider returning to Tynecastle under Locke.



now, does that not read as though David Weir would prefer to be Locke's assistant than take over as Everton gaffer. I suppose Hearts are the big team so that might be right!

[Platinum Scotty]

Perhaps they need to keep Roman in Tynecastle, so that all the dodgy paper work doesnt get read by anyone else!!:wink:

*** why does the system change swine castle to ******** ??? ** when i first typed it in it overwrote that with **'s weird...

[supershotmo]

90% of the shareholders will be Lithuanian. The fans only hold 10% so there was only going to be one winner.

[Treadstone]

Quality stuff.......
Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today confirm that Mr Roman Romanov has been re-appointed as a Director.

A poll was taken at the AGM on Thursday 23rd May to vote on Resolution 2: 'To re-appoint Mr Roman Romanov as a Director.'

The results show that 99.91% voted For the resolution, while 0.09% voted Against.


On brokeback

Spot on. A GIRUY story if I have even seen one. It's almost is if we have the cheek to challenge a board recommendation. But then we will be the people who the board come running to for more short term funding. Joke.
They could have just put a one liner out.

The poster ? Russian Hats. Ye couldnae make it up.:protest:

[Spike Mandela]

They really live in dream land don't they and the Yam frothers just lap it up. :yw::lolyam:

http://www.teamtalk.com/hearts/8731861/Fedotovas-eyes-top-three-spot

Fedotovas eyes top-three spot

Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas has targeted a top-three finish next season - despite the threat of a 15-point deduction.

Majority shareholder UBIG last week indicated its insolvency and Hearts could face Scottish Premier League punishment if that declaration is ratified in the Lithuanian courts in the coming weeks.

Hearts were already cutting back on wage costs for the second year running after finishing 10th in the SPL but Fedotovas expects major improvement under Gary Locke, who replaced John McGlynn as manager in March.

Fedotovas told Hearts TV: "I think we really need to be targeting at least the top-three places.

"Obviously this will be pretty much a new team so it will be important how Gary will be able to glue new faces into a good team and deliver results.

"I believe it's not the first time it has happened in football. Reconstruction of a football team happens a lot everywhere and we are viewing it positively.

"Having in mind the result we had last season, this is really painful to speak about it, but we are looking to radically improve this situation next season."

Hearts have released Mehdi Taouil, Danny Grainger, Darren Barr, Gordon Smith and Fraser Mullen from their squad but Fedotovas has promised replacements.

"We are clearing up in order for new people to come in who can hopefully improve the squad and make it better in terms of results from last season," he said.

"The faces are identified and people are working to get the negotiations right and get the deals done.

"We are very hopeful we will be able to start announcing people coming in and be ready for the next season."

It's a misquote. What he means is if they get liquidated he can see no reason why they can't finish top 3 in Div 3.:cb

[Andy74]

It wasn't voted down, though. The absentee shareholders voted him in, presumably by proxy.

Add this to their list of things they don't understand, how voting at an AGM works. They actually though a handful of token shareholders could have an impact on a vote?

[Treadstone]

Add this to their list of things they don't understand, how voting at an AGM works. They actually though a handful of token shareholders could have an impact on a vote?

:agree: Or believe that the power player would listen to the floor.

[grunt]

I assume there is a growing number of us thinking that the £10m loan is now unsecured as to give them the power to hold all the voting aces in a CVA. Please tell me i am wrong.


My best guess now is that it's not secured. As you say, £10m unsecured debt due to UBIG would give them the casting vote in a CVA so it is potentially important if HoMFC themselves go into administration - they could actually come out of it again.


Where "them" = the Lithquidators. Not necessarily going to be Yam-favourable.

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

[Treadstone]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

As JeMeSouviens says, the 'them' is likely to be the liquidators and not UBIG themselves.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

It is and it isn't.

Whilst it is theoretically possible for a CVA to take place, an administrator will take a look at the reality of the situation..... ie one major asset, which is pledged to the secured creditor... and say "there is nothing here for the ordinary creditors, so it's as well going into liquidation."

The only potential way round that is if the sale of the ground realises more than the UKIO debt, in which case there IS a dividend to ordinary creditors. However, unless the sale of the ground is to one of these consortia, they won't be playing at Tynie.

[Spike Mandela]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

Not some financial shenanigans from board members prior to resignig en masse, surely not:rolleyes: corrupt to the core.

[Sanger]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?


They would not have moved loan to UB and given Tynecastle as security in order to have a cva as it takes the only asset worth anything out of the equation. Ukio Bankas realised UBIG insolvent and unable to pay any loans back so getting as much security on assets of companies UBIG lent money on to. Ukio Bankas went insolvent/bankrupt because of 1.6 trillion litas of bad loans made to Romanov companies. This would have all been carried out via UBIG. The 79% of Hearts shares held by Ukio Bankas are a claim against the £53.6 (68.6 -15) million lent to UBIG that was lent on to/forgiven to Hearts ( see my previous posts to see how £68.6m is arrived at). UKio Bankas administrator will be the largest creditor in any CVA. Any action would be suspended on appeal from the UB administrators because of the pending bankruptcy of UB/UBIG if UBIG tried to play a fast one.

[lapsedhibee]

They would not have moved loan to UB and given Tynecastle as security in order to have a cva as it takes the only asset worth anything out of the equation. Ukio Bankas realised UBIG insolvent and unable to pay any loans back so getting as much security on assets of companies UBIG lent money on to. Ukio Bankas went insolvent/bankrupt because of 1.6 trillion litas of bad loans made to Romanov companies. This would have all been carried out via UBIG. The 79% of Hearts shares held by Ukio Bankas are a claim against the £53.6 (68.6 -15) million lent to UBIG that was lent on to/forgiven to Hearts ( see my previous posts to see how £68.6m is arrived at). UKio Bankas administrator will be the largest creditor in any CVA. Any action would be suspended on appeal from the UB administrators because of the pending bankruptcy of UB/UBIG if UBIG tried to play a fast one.

Would it in reality, though? Is it not a fact universally acknowledged that The Huns sold The Big House & Murray Park for a laughably small amount to The The Huns, without (so far) any comeback? When are the supposed controls over this sort of abuse going to come into play, and are the Lith authorities any more assiduous than the Scotch authorities when fast ones are played? :dunno:

[Sanger]

Would it in reality, though? Is it not a fact universally acknowledged that The Huns sold The Big House & Murray Park for a laughably small amount to The The Huns, without (so far) any comeback? When are the supposed controls over this sort of abuse going to come into play, and are the Lith authorities any more assiduous than the Scotch authorities when fast ones are played? :dunno:

Ukio Bankas a secured creditor of Hearts and UBIG. No secured creditor at the Huns.

[hibs0666]

Would it in reality, though? Is it not a fact universally acknowledged that The Huns sold The Big House & Murray Park for a laughably small amount to The The Huns, without (so far) any comeback? When are the supposed controls over this sort of abuse going to come into play, and are the Lith authorities any more assiduous than the Scotch authorities when fast ones are played? :dunno:

UBIG assets are frozen in order to stop Vlad pulling a fast one.

[Gus Fring]

UBIG assets are frozen in order to stop Vlad pulling a fast one.

:top marksThe media repeatedly gives 0 mention of this. There are many many hurdles in place for a buyout of Hearts that were not present in the Sevco saga. The big differences are the secured debt, frozen assets and that the Seller, Buyer and Administrator are highly unlikely to be working in cahoots.

[semaj64]

I believe its worth very little due to the fact it sits next to the distillery and chemical plant and housing permision would not get granted.

So my Flats or Houses bid is devalued with just have to disguise it as Fans Of Hearts and see how much I can raise

[Caversham Green]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

I don't think the loan moves were done for that purpose, but it does look like the UBIG loan is unsecured now. I think the intention behind the debt shifting was to artificially prop up Ukio's balance sheet in a last-ditch effort to postpone the inevitable insolvency until an escape plan could be formulated. That escape plan appears to have involved HoMFC remaining solvent - again by artificial means. In truth, I think they've made an almighty mess of the whole thing.


It is and it isn't.

Whilst it is theoretically possible for a CVA to take place, an administrator will take a look at the reality of the situation..... ie one major asset, which is pledged to the secured creditor... and say "there is nothing here for the ordinary creditors, so it's as well going into liquidation."

The only potential way round that is if the sale of the ground realises more than the UKIO debt, in which case there IS a dividend to ordinary creditors. However, unless the sale of the ground is to one of these consortia, they won't be playing at Tynie.

One way they could conceivably exit administration is if a new buyer paid sufficient money into the administration fund to make a CVA acceptable to UBIG's administrator. That wouldn't clear the Ukio debt though and the new buyer could still be left with the problem of finding £15m in two years unless they could also buy the security from Ukio's administrator.

Not cheap, not what any of the prospective buyers claim to want and HoMFC would still suffer at least one points penalty, but it could happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

They would not have moved loan to UB and given Tynecastle as security in order to have a cva as it takes the only asset worth anything out of the equation. Ukio Bankas realised UBIG insolvent and unable to pay any loans back so getting as much security on assets of companies UBIG lent money on to. Ukio Bankas went insolvent/bankrupt because of 1.6 trillion litas of bad loans made to Romanov companies. This would have all been carried out via UBIG. The 79% of Hearts shares held by Ukio Bankas are a claim against the £53.6 (68.6 -15) million lent to UBIG that was lent on to/forgiven to Hearts ( see my previous posts to see how £68.6m is arrived at). UKio Bankas administrator will be the largest creditor in any CVA. Any action would be suspended on appeal from the UB administrators because of the pending bankruptcy of UB/UBIG if UBIG tried to play a fast one.

They would be a creditor in a CVA only to the extent of the unsecured part of the debt, though. Given that the major asset would be the subject of their security, I doubt that a CVA would have any merit. Unless the sale of Tynie provided a larger sum than the £10m security, there would next to nothing available for the CVA.

[clerriehibs]

Would it in reality, though? Is it not a fact universally acknowledged that The Huns sold The Big House & Murray Park for a laughably small amount to The The Huns, without (so far) any comeback? When are the supposed controls over this sort of abuse going to come into play, and are the Lith authorities any more assiduous than the Scotch authorities when fast ones are played? :dunno:


What have the whisky people got to do with all this?!?

[lapsedhibee]

What have the whisky people got to do with all this?!?

Would it be inhaling a toxic combination of asbestos and whisky fumes that makes yams beLIEve so easily? :dunno:

[clerriehibs]

I think Cav has it right here (doesn't he always) - the "them" is the creditors, not the liquidators. If UBIG now have a £10m unsecured loan due from HMFC, that makes them the majority creditor capable of voting in any potential CVA for HMFC, and means they can vote to approve a CVA put forward. Meaning that it is now feasible that HMFC could go into administration and come out the other side via a CVA. This must have been the objective of the recent loan movements.

Is this not a major game changer, Cav?

so they really did just lend it to themselves, and it wasn't a problem.

Just a problem for the other ukio/ubig creditors, of course.

I'd love to see/hear the spl spin on this if it comes to fruition.

[Jack]

Despite what he is saying publically Fedetovas obviously knew what was happening with Ubig and he knws the situation with Hearts.

I am certain that with the aid of contacts, ex board members, Lithuanian officials palms greased, Romanov himself, knowledge of both Lithuanian and UK insolvency law he will be orchestrating all the factors within his cotrol and probably pulling a few strings of others with control in other crucial areas so that Hearts will get as soft a landing as possible and end up at new owners at a cheap rate.

Given there are likely to be criminal proceedings and jail sentences I doubt there will be anyone even answering the phone in Lith to Fredo who might be in a position to help hahahearts.

[CentreLine]

They would be a creditor in a CVA only to the extent of the unsecured part of the debt, though. Given that the major asset would be the subject of their security, I doubt that a CVA would have any merit. Unless the sale of Tynie provided a larger sum than the £10m security, there would next to nothing available for the CVA.

Would all of this explain in part why hahahearts have continued to pay HMRC thus ensuring that HMRC are not in a position to block a CVA? It just seems that there has been a great deal of juggling with debt for no obvious reason except perhaps removing the impact that HMRC policy might have on an administration bid.

[MSK]

Are they still here ?

[Curly1875]

Are they still here ?

If they are, no one cares! We have a final to concern ourselves with!

[MSK]

If they are, no one cares! We have a final to concern ourselves with!True ..but Im no concerned ..:aok:

[CyberSauzee]

May as well get this back on the first page. Got to take my mind off today's hoofball with this summers comedy extravaganza.

[Hibs07p]

Are they deid yet?
ggtth

[bingo70]

May as well get this back on the first page. Got to take my mind off today's hoofball with this summers comedy extravaganza.

Sorry for the thread hijack but need to pick you up on this point, yesterday wasn't hoofball, it was dissapointing result but if anything we were too tippy tappy and slow in midfield.

Anyway, back on topic, **** the hearts

[Spike Mandela]

The one true anaesthetic to yesterday's defeat is returning to this thread and the sorry state this bunch of mugs find themselves in:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Bloke on Kickback claiming they have informed the SPL that they may be moving out of Tynecastle next season.
More of this type of news will help take away the disappointment of yesterday.

[YehButNoBut]

Hearts announce Danny Wilson has signed a permanent deal.

Goodwillie & Boyd next??

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130527/dannys-a-done-deal_2241384_3192360

[EdinMike]

Hearts announce Danny Wilson has signed a permanent deal.

Goodwillie & Boyd next??

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130527/dannys-a-done-deal_2241384_3192360

It really does seem like AllisBarry, and we are the deluded ones... :rolleyes:

[Leithenhibby]

So is he still under contract with Liverpool! :confused:

"Danny, who spent the second half of last season on loan at Tynecastle, has agreed to sign a three year deal upon expiration of his current contract at Liverpool".

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Hearts announce Danny Wilson has signed a permanent deal.

Goodwillie & Boyd next??

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130527/dannys-a-done-deal_2241384_3192360

Amazing how they continue to do this without even having a pot to pee in, this kind of arrogance does my box in and if the SFA don't look in to why they can't pay back (and never will) the zillions they owe then why are they allowed to sign players (even if players have left)

I think it's about time we started cheating like this as it's clear nothing will get done about it. :rolleyes:

[bingo70]

So is he still under contract with Liverpool! :confused:

"Danny, who spent the second half of last season on loan at Tynecastle, has agreed to sign a three year deal upon expiration of his current contract at Liverpool".

He'll be under contract until for the next couple of weeks so can't officially sign for hearts just now.

I'm really not fussed by this news, if they want to ***** a fair whack of there budget on a pretty average defender then that's up to them.

Also worth remembering Rangers before tehy folded tried to sign daniel cousin in the days before administration.

[bingo70]

Amazing how they continue to do this without even having a pot to pee in, this kind of arrogance does my box in and if the SFA don't look in to why they can't pay back (and never will) the zillions they owe then why are they allowed to sign players (even if players have left)

I think it's about time we started cheating like this as it's clear nothing will get done about it. :rolleyes:

At the agm last week they were pretty open about the fact they'll likely start next season -15 points.

[Leithenhibby]

He'll be under contract until for the next couple of weeks so can't officially sign for hearts just now.

I'm really not fussed by this news, if they want to ***** a fair whack of there budget on a pretty average defender then that's up to them.

Also worth remembering Rangers before tehy folded tried to sign daniel cousin in the days before administration.



:agree: It's not a done deal yet!....... ST sales pitch methinks :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

This is the sickbag rumour quote mentioned above. The poster claims he got the following from among the suits at Hampden yesterday. First part sounds fairly plausible and second part top notch but perhaps a bit over hopeful. Suspect it would be a worst case scenario if the Lithquidators play proper hardball. :wink:


1. We have a cash flow issue looming that will become a real problem by August and earlier if season tickets and new membership income doesn't come in. We asked about possibility of SPL advance earlier than the standard September but were declined. This is not for this season it's next.

2. This was the most serious one. Apparantly we have given the SPL heads up that Tynecastle MAY be sold on open market in the next coming season. We said this because we have to give SPL notice of change of stadoum (worse case) and gave note on intent to look at alternative stadium if land sold and we are moved out before May 2014. I asked if liths had called security in and was told Hearts board were in agreement with sale off tynecastle land in association. With UKIO administrators. I tried to look like I didn't care so didn't probe but was told that this will be public knowledge in a few weeks.

Good news is SPL board are trying to work with us according to him. But bad news is that knives are out from some of the chairman who want to punish Hearts (not sure what exactly for mind).

Bit in bold, they really, really just don't get it do they? I've not murdered anyone for over a year, how can you punish me? :rolleyes:

[Geo_1875]

So if Wilson has signed for HoMFC I assume the SPL have opened the transfer window early?

[Sergio sledge]

It really is something that the SPL need to look at, HoMFC have already admitted they don't have enough money to see out the season. They are hoping that they can raise £1.5m from a fan membership scheme and £1m from player sales throughout the season. Their audited accounts state "These conditions, along with the uncertainties in the cash flow projections explained in note 1 to the financial statements, indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern." This isn't a club taking finance out for expansion or using an arranged overdraft/loan/funding to speculate on a player or two, this is a club which is crossing its fingers and hoping for the best. Some of the clubs in the SPL have smaller total wage budgets than HoMFC are looking at fleecing their fans for again.

I don't know if the SPL have any regulations on clubs providing assurance that they can fulfil their fixtures, but if they don't then they should IMHO.

[PatHead]

I was speaking to a Hearts fan the other day who told me that they were still due money for Templeton and McGowan as part of the transfers. This is where a large chunk of the £1m transfer fee expectation comes from. Is this true as I thought that they had received all their fees for those two?

[Tyler Durden]

Hearts have signed a new player - what exactly is difficult to understand about this?

[PatHead]

Hearts have signed a new player - what exactly is difficult to understand about this?

Don't think anyone finds it difficult to understand just odd that a club which admits it cannot see out the season without a cash injection is going around, and allowed under SPL rules, to sign players. I suspect that come the middle of the season they will do what Dunfermline did when they signed Brewster, Crawford, Kozma etc and announce half way through the season that they can't afford the players and they (the players) will have to take a massive wage cut.

[Sergio sledge]

This is the sickbag rumour quote mentioned above. The poster claims he got the following from among the suits at Hampden yesterday. First part sounds fairly plausible and second part top notch but perhaps a bit over hopeful. Suspect it would be a worst case scenario if the Lithquidators play proper hardball. :wink:


It's very plausible.

In June they have interest payments and HMRC payments due of around £135k, with a wage bill of around £500k to meet, based on the £6m annual wage bill mentioned (I think) at the time of the share issue.
In July, they have interest payments and HMRC payments due of around £135k, with a wage bill of around £290k to meet, based on the £3.5m annual wage bill mentioned (I think) by Robbo at the time of the share issue.

This means that in these two months where there is no real income* other than season ticket sales they have a to pay out nearly £1.1m. They needed £1.8m to see out this season just finished but only raised £1.5m, meaning that they will have used £300k of the 13/14 season ticket income (assuming they hadn't already budgeted to use that) to get them to the end of May. They claim to have sold 6k season tickets for next season which will be around £1.4m income (assuming they have similar average prices to Hibs @ £12 per game) so they'll have used virtually all the season ticket money by the end of July, 1 month into the new season.

* There will be some income from friendly matches and merchandise sales (new kit) but I would imagine that friendlies struggle to break even with policing and stewarding costs taken into account and the money they will make from replica kit sales is minimal.

[JeMeSouviens]

Don't think anyone finds it difficult to understand just odd that a club which admits it cannot see out the season without a cash injection is going around, and allowed under SPL rules, to sign players. I suspect that come the middle of the season they will do what Dunfermline did when they signed Brewster, Crawford, Kozma etc and announce half way through the season that they can't afford the players and they (the players) will have to take a massive wage cut.

They are clinging on in the desperate hope that someone will buy them ... and ****ing sharpish!

Even if they did, are any prospective buyers really going to have the sort of funds available to make up the shortfall from spending next year's ST money already? :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

It's very plausible.

In June they have interest payments and HMRC payments due of around £135k, with a wage bill of around £500k to meet, based on the £6m annual wage bill mentioned (I think) at the time of the share issue.
In July, they have interest payments and HMRC payments due of around £135k, with a wage bill of around £290k to meet, based on the £3.5m annual wage bill mentioned (I think) by Robbo at the time of the share issue.

This means that in these two months where there is no real income* other than season ticket sales they have a to pay out nearly £1.1m. They needed £1.8m to see out this season just finished but only raised £1.5m, meaning that they will have used £300k of the 13/14 season ticket income (assuming they hadn't already budgeted to use that) to get them to the end of May. They claim to have sold 6k season tickets for next season which will be around £1.4m income (assuming they have similar average prices to Hibs @ £12 per game) so they'll have used virtually all the season ticket money by the end of July, 1 month into the new season.

* There will be some income from friendly matches and merchandise sales (new kit) but I would imagine that friendlies struggle to break even with policing and stewarding costs taken into account and the money they will make from replica kit sales is minimal.

They will get some prize money (no s******ing at the back!) from their plucky 10th place finish (c £300K I think) and if they limp on until September they'll get the upfront SPL distribution (c £600K). I think you might be slightly overestimating their wage bill since several high earners are already released and they probably won't bring the new faces on board until very close to the new season start. On the other hand, I think it's pretty likely that most of the ST money they've already taken in has already been spent.

It will be interesting to see how the Muppets react if they actually do try to launch their membership scheme. :greengrin

[PatHead]

They will get some prize money (no s******ing at the back!) from their plucky 10th place finish (c £300K I think) and if they limp on until September they'll get the upfront SPL distribution (c £600K). I think you might be slightly overestimating their wage bill since several high earners are already released and they probably won't bring the new faces on board until very close to the new season start. On the other hand, I think it's pretty likely that most of the ST money they've already taken in has already been spent.

It will be interesting to see how the Muppets react if they actually do try to launch their membership scheme. :greengrin

Is there a sponsor for the SPL in place or have I mixed it up with something else?

[Seveno]

I understand that they are signing Wilson as he has a large back garden. They can use his shed for the changing rooms and he has a nice patio that will easily accommodate the last remaining 15 yams. Mrs Wilson has offered to sell teas from out of the kitchen window.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Amazing how they continue to do this without even having a pot to pee in, this kind of arrogance does my box in and if the SFA don't look in to why they can't pay back (and never will) the zillions they owe then why are they allowed to sign players (even if players have left)

I think it's about time we started cheating like this as it's clear nothing will get done about it. :rolleyes:

spot on.
seems our footballing authorities will bend over backwards to try to save hearts. Every obstacle is overcome with their help and guidance.
I can't think of a single time when a company was in such a hideously dire position but still contiues to trade without a care.
I can't ever see them going under.

[JimBHibees]

So is he still under contract with Liverpool! :confused:

"Danny, who spent the second half of last season on loan at Tynecastle, has agreed to sign a three year deal upon expiration of his current contract at Liverpool".

No surprise the timing of this a day after we lost in the final. So he has a current contract at Liverpool which will likely run out at the end of the month. There will be loads of caveats that Wilson's advisors will have written in. Lets see how it goes and if he actually plays there.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is there a sponsor for the SPL in place or have I mixed it up with something else?

Not yet. I imagine they're waiting for the "SPFL" rebrand.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Really got to laugh at them on other newspaper forums spouting they will be in the top 4 next season, no problem :hilarious and we will be ones relegated.

You got to give them credit for brightening up our Monday :aok:

[Hibs Class]

Really got to laugh at them on other newspaper forums spouting they will be in the top 4 next season, no problem :hilarious and we will be ones relegated.

You got to give them credit for brightening up our Monday :aok:

Giving them credit is the last thing anyone should do :greengrin

[Seven up]

I understand that they are signing Wilson as he has a large back garden. They can use his shed for the changing rooms and he has a nice patio that will easily accommodate the last remaining 15 yams. Mrs Wilson has offered to sell teas from out of the kitchen window.

Just spat oot ma tea lololololol

[fat freddy]

Just spat oot ma tea lololololol

a wee bit early to be having your tea?

[Borderhibbie76]

According to rumours on Facebook, they are very close to signing kris boyd too...beggars belief it really does!!

[Makaveli]

According to rumours on Facebook, they are very close to signing kris boyd too...beggars belief it really does!!

If rumours like that are true (and if they're still alive in six months), these players aren't going to be paid when we get into October/November and the cash-flow sh** hits the fan. No hobonomics here... just facts.

Where is that future wage money going to come from? It's not. They're just digging themselves an even bigger hole.

[Leithenhibby]

According to rumours on Facebook, they are very close to signing kris boyd too...beggars belief it really does!!


And as it stands, they haven't signed anyone at this time!

It's all part of their ST sales plan :wink: Chill.

GGTTH

[ScottB]

If rumours like that are true (and if they're still alive in six months), these players aren't going to be paid when we get into October/November and the cash-flow sh** hits the fan. No hobonomics here... just facts.

Where is that future wage money going to come from? It's not. They're just digging themselves an even bigger hole.

They have a deluded support that had convinced themselves this is the sort of player they need to go for, and the club needs them to buy season tickets and 'donate' another £1.5million on top of that.

I'd expect a couple of token 'big names' (who have few, if any other options) to join over the summer in an effort to convince the puddle drinkers to hand over their cash. If they went with a squad they could afford more realistically, the fans would keep their cash and they'd die anyway. One last attempt at 'speculating to accumulate' for them before they die.

Let them have Boyd if they want, he's done f all at Killie and will just be another drain on their dwindling bank balance.

[essexhibee]

"I believe the club has a bright future with a lot of good young players." - Danny Wilson on signing for Hearts.

:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

[blindsummit]

I have absolutely no sympathy for any player that signs for the manky mob and then three months later they fail to get paid or they go bust. They can access the same info we can and can see what a shower the jambos are and how close to going down the pan, so they have no excuses and can have no moans when it goes mammaries aloft.

Their agents should be run out of town for giving them such bad advice though.

[blindsummit]

I have absolutely no sympathy for any player that signs for the manky mob and then three months later they fail to get paid or they go bust. They can access the same info we can and can see what a shower the jambos are and how close to going down the pan, so they have no excuses and can have no moans when it goes mammaries aloft.

Their agents should be run out of town for giving them such bad advice though.

Hey! I finally hit 1000 posts! I've been on Hibs.net since practically the beginning so it's taken me a looooooong time to get there. Some guys are up to 30,000 posts by now.