Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Spike Mandela]

Why are BDO so sympathetic towards FOH? Its almost as if they are more interested in them being successful than they are getting the best deal for their clients.

Did Massone's bid not provide proof of funds or funds for running costs?

To select a preferreed bidder who's bid fell so far short of the others would suggest the other bids couldn't provide evidence of funds or FoH have assured BDO they will increase their bid substantially (favourable loan from sympathiser perhaps) or are BDO playing to the sympathies of the media?

[Bostonhibby]

Closing in and corning the one credible bidder - now the question is have FOH found the millions that Ukio's admins thought they were short on their last bid?

Hearing what you say, and whilst it flies in the face of all good business sense (liquidating and selling for more than whatever the FOH cobble together) logic goes out the window and I have a feeling this is being set up behind the scenes somehow for an acceptance of whatever FOH maximium is. Been involved in a few admins - from a creditor angle - and this one does not feel like it's about how much can we get for the creditors and whats the quickest and best way to do it.

[Gus Fring]

Hearing what you say, and whilst it flies in the face of all good business sense (liquidating and selling for more than whatever the FOH cobble together) logic goes out the window and I have a feeling this is being set up behind the scenes somehow for an acceptance of whatever FOH maximium is. Been involved in a few admins - from a creditor angle - and this one does not feel like it's about how much can we get for the creditors and whats the quickest and best way to do it.

Liquidating is still an option but if they can keep squeezing more money out of FoH in the meantime to see whether they are capable of reaching the valuation then why not do it?

[flash]

Hearing what you say, and whilst it flies in the face of all good business sense (liquidating and selling for more than whatever the FOH cobble together) logic goes out the window and I have a feeling this is being set up behind the scenes somehow for an acceptance of whatever FOH maximium is. Been involved in a few admins - from a creditor angle - and this one does not feel like it's about how much can we get for the creditors and whats the quickest and best way to do it.

That's the point i was trying clumsily to make. Surely the best deal for whoever now owns UKIO etc is liquidation and sale of the assets.
Almost looks as though BDO are only interested in coming across as the good guy and are not putting the best interests of their clients first.

[Bostonhibby]

You don't have the full information to make a comment like that. We don't know exactly how much Ukio want, how much FOH are offering or what the break up value is. It gives BDO a better chance of being appointed administrator of football clubs that go bust in future if they can make arrangements that allow the club to continue with as little disruption as possible. I don't see a queue of clubs lining up to appoint Duff & Phelps.

:wink:

....

BTW, I think this will lead to a CVA being agreed. It's not straightforward and will probably take some months to agree, but I think it will happen eventually. If say Ukio threatened FOH with pushing Hearts into liquidation for the sake of say £1M, I would imagine that FOH would be able to raise that from the fans and/or their backers. What we really need to be focusing on is the complete and utter failure of Hibs to take advantage of the situations affecting other clubs.



There was no reason in the rules to do that. "I don't like Hearts" isn't a rule.



Which would have put more people out of work.



Because it's nobody's interests to do so.



Normal businesses of that size aren't able to raise £1M from their customer base in the space of a month.

Tend to agree with all of this. The gloss has been taken off the mess a bit by the very good point you make, we are a different kind of shambles to them though, ours is on the pitch which has the potential to cost us in the medium term if it is not sorted out. Only Hibs could blow it and miss the opportunity to take advantage of a weakening league when we are comparatively stronger.

The comparison between us and Aberdeen and Inverness will be interesting this season as they have had quite a few changes, maybe spent less and don't seem to have required the legendary gelling together period!

[Spike Mandela]

Hearing what you say, and whilst it flies in the face of all good business sense (liquidating and selling for more than whatever the FOH cobble together) logic goes out the window and I have a feeling this is being set up behind the scenes somehow for an acceptance of whatever FOH maximium is. Been involved in a few admins - from a creditor angle - and this one does not feel like it's about how much can we get for the creditors and whats the quickest and best way to do it.

Just like the Pars CVA. It flew in the face of logic and required Gavin Masterton to accept next to nothing for the millions he was due.

Depends how tough the Liths get and how little they are prepared to accept of the money they are owed considering they have security on Tynecastle. Of course I see where you are coming from about this admin not being about getting the most for the creditors however it is the Hearts administration we get reported in the press over here the UKIO administration might be getting treated differently in the press over in Lithuania.

Of course if FoH do manage to weasel their way to ownership of Hearts with a few paltry million then it is another massive con via football administration for the cheats and scammers and Hearts will effectively have pulled off the great escape.

[Bostonhibby]

e
Liquidating is still an option but if they can keep squeezing more money out of FoH in the meantime to see whether they are capable of reaching the valuation then why not do it?

:agree: Logically they could and should do this to and the end game could eventually come however I just expect them to emerge with a relatively cheap sale to FOH without the true value of the liquidated assets ever being tested properly in the market, or realised.

I think that when the announcement comes we will never know what the valuation actually was but whatever FOH max out at will magically be the figure and that's how it will be spun.

Lucky escape with just the points deduction looks to me to be how the admin will end.

Cheats never prosper? Off the pitch there seems to be a lot of goodwill politically towards people who have basically benefitted from what looks like fraud on a grand scale. The same sympathisers express no real remorse about the UK businesses and charities that have been bumped or people who have lost their jobs so why would they think twice about the morality of political pressure to stitch up a deal to keep the Yams afloat? Some good points made about the political agenda in Lithuania, I guess time will tell.

On the pitch they are likely to get the usual helping hand from the likes of us who predictably fail to cash in on their weakness and it will be interesting to see if the SPFL can stick to its own rules too.

[Stevie Reid]

Is the Lithuanian Government effectively still in control of whether the shares can actually be sold?

[Gus Fring]

Is the Lithuanian Government effectively still in control of whether the shares can actually be sold?

Correct. The assets are still frozen and until that changes, Hearts are heading for the liquidiser

[Stevie Reid]

Correct. The assets are still frozen and until that changes, Hearts are heading for the liquidiser

Excellent, cheers mate :aok:

[Spike Mandela]

Correct. The assets are still frozen and until that changes, Hearts are heading for the liquidiser

These shares won't be frozen forever though will they.

[Caversham Green]

These shares won't be frozen forever though will they.

They were frozen for a reason and they will stay frozen for as long as that reason exists.

[Spike Mandela]

They were frozen for a reason and they will stay frozen for as long as that reason exists.

Yes but that could be years or it could be days for all we know.

[Gus Fring]

Yes but that could be years or it could be days for all we know.

It's unlikely to be days. They were frozen because the authorities believe Vlad has been up to something with the finances of his many businesses and this was put in place to stop them from being sold off promptly in a bid to cover it up. It's the financial equivalent of declaring a crime scene.

The lith's won't be swayed by the sentimental value of one of those companies because, for all they know, Hearts are the key to the whole saga.

Given that Vlad hasn't handed himself in yet it would appear they are on to something. Innocent people don't tend to go on the run.

[Caversham Green]

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

[Spike Mandela]

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

[Caversham Green]

So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

That's about it, but the creditors have to agree to be diddled, so it's a compromise. Where the real diddling took place was when Duff & Phelps tied themselves in to a ridiculously low but 'legally binding' liquidation settlement as the only alternative to a CVA. Hopefully that can't happen here because of the security over Tynie.

[Gus Fring]

So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

The creditors were always likely to get diddled. The security on Hearts assets made sure that happened because it's higher than the club is worth.

[Spike Mandela]

The creditors were always likely to get diddled. The security on Hearts assets made sure that happened because it's higher than the club is worth.

But not higher than the money owed to them.:rolleyes:

[brog]

And meanwhile the gravy train for BDO rumbles on, must be up to about £400,000 by now!

[Caversham Green]

But not higher than the money owed to them.:rolleyes:

In theory the creditors only have themselves to blame for that. In this case it seems likely that there was criminal activity involved, hence the freezing of the shares.

As a side issue, I'm wondering if Ukio's apparent 29.9% shareholding will be as easy to hand over as the yams seem to think. They were originally UBIG's and were put up as security for UBIG's debt. Ukio reportedly took possession of them prior to the freezing of assets, but at what value? The shares are worthless (like the club), and if they were used to reduce UBIG's debt then that would appear to be fraudulent and the transaction should be reversed. If they weren't used to reduce the debt then there was no reason to take possession. In either case, the transfer doesn't appear to have been registered at Companies House, so to some extent, in legal terms it hasn't happened.

[Bostonhibby]

Just been reading allisbarry's official statement on this in the hootsmon. Seems it's just a formality now.

Confident enough to say that Valnetas have privately indicated £5m will be enough then they will get the balance of the shares from UBIG for a "token figure" where does this confidence / evidence come from I wonder? The yam posting underneath clearly see salvation arriving.

Nae shame, remorse nor recognition of the aftermath just glorification at their perceived survival and the success that is seemingly round the corner. There's even a hun posting on there with a bit of humility!

[scoopyboy]

Is it only me who can see this, but BDO have made FOH the prefered bidders as they are the only one bidding?

And it matters not a jot if the Liths dont think its enough, and it was nowhere near enough last week?

I was about to post the same.

Only bidder has to equal preferred bidder unless unacceptable.

[Gus Fring]

Just been reading allisbarry's official statement on this in the hootsmon. Seems it's just a formality now.

Confident enough to say that Valnetas have privately indicated £5m will be enough then they will get the balance of the shares from UBIG for a "token figure" where does this confidence / evidence come from I wonder? The yam posting underneath clearly see salvation arriving.

Nae shame, remorse nor recognition of the aftermath just glorification at their perceived survival and the success that is seemingly round the corner. There's even a hun posting on there with a bit of humility!

If Barry Anderson has quoted £5m then we can be assured it's some way off that.

In all seriousness FOH were still a long way off I was told. It all boils down to how UKIO deals with them being the only bidder left standing. What Barry doesn't seem to grasp is they are under no obligation to sell.

[Treadstone]

If Barry Anderson has quoted £5m then we can be assured it's some way off that.


Not so sure about that now Bajillions. EENs gift of a full page advert to FoH definitely reeks of a bit of 'I'll scratch your back...'

I'm expecting a bit more accuracy from Banderson. I now feel dirty.

[scoopyboy]

How much does it actually mean that FOH is the preferred bidder?

If I turned up with £20 million tomorrow would I be sent packing because there is a preferred bidder?

[Seveno]

FoH will now get access to detailed running costs of Club and commercial contracts etc. ( although they have probs had all that from Southern if not BDO )

They can now fine tune their final bid and see if its enough for the Lith. admin to get them to first base.

If they still fall short I would think it will be the Mincer for them.

You need to brush up on your knowledge of kitchen appliances. It will be the Liquidiser for them.

[Gus Fring]

Not so sure about that now Bajillions. EENs gift of a full page advert to FoH definitely reeks of a bit of 'I'll scratch your back...'

I'm expecting a bit more accuracy from Banderson. I now feel dirty.

In fairness, the advert was run in exchange for a donation being made to the sick kids so I can't fault the EEN there. However, given that at this stage the FOH do not know how far off their bid is, I find it very difficult to comprehend how Barry would know. UKIO's admin are playing the cards close to the chest I'm told.


How much does it actually mean that FOH is the preferred bidder?

If I turned up with £20 million tomorrow would I be sent packing because there is a preferred bidder?

You'd more likely be sent packing because you're clearly not the full shilling offering £20m but kidding aside no, BDO aren't under any obligation to turn you away and just go with the FOH. They can still entertain other offers, preferred bidder just means who they currently intend to sell the business to if all goes well. Either party can tell the other one to bolt.

[KeithTheHibby]

You don't have the full information to make a comment like that. We don't know exactly how much Ukio want, how much FOH are offering or what the break up value is. It gives BDO a better chance of being appointed administrator of football clubs that go bust in future if they can make arrangements that allow the club to continue with as little disruption as possible. I don't see a queue of clubs lining up to appoint Duff & Phelps.

:wink:

....

BTW, I think this will lead to a CVA being agreed. It's not straightforward and will probably take some months to agree, but I think it will happen eventually. If say Ukio threatened FOH with pushing Hearts into liquidation for the sake of say £1M, I would imagine that FOH would be able to raise that from the fans and/or their backers. What we really need to be focusing on is the complete and utter failure of Hibs to take advantage of the situations affecting other clubs.



There was no reason in the rules to do that. "I don't like Hearts" isn't a rule.



Which would have put more people out of work.



Because it's nobody's interests to do so.



Normal businesses of that size aren't able to raise £1M from their customer base in the space of a month.

That is a huge if surely?

Security over the stadium is 6.8m, correct?

I would have imagine given a report that the land at Tynecastle was worth 12m then the secured price of 6.8m would be the least they would accept for the club and ground?

The bid from FOH was miles from this figure, millions of pounds? I don't really see how they can raise say another 3m capital which is probably the amount they need to even have their bid considered?

[lapsedhibee]

What Barry doesn't seem to grasp is they are under no obligation to sell.

I read the first half of that sentence and paused to think to myself "absolutely anything under the sun could follow now and it would be true - I wonder what will".

Poor Allis.

[Part/Time Supporter]

That is a huge if surely?

Security over the stadium is 6.8m, correct?

I would have imagine given a report that the land at Tynecastle was worth 12m then the secured price of 6.8m would be the least they would accept for the club and ground?

You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.


The bid from FOH was miles from this figure, millions of pounds? I don't really see how they can raise say another 3m capital which is probably the amount they need to even have their bid considered?

If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

[bingo70]

You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.



If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

I don't like the noises you're making, can you tell me the same again please but this time tell me they're ****ed please?

[joe breezy]

Part Time Supporter seems pretty confident that #allisbarry

So, someone is wrong

[clerriehibs]

You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.



If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

If the shares are frozen, can they even be liquidated? If not, might as well keep the pot simmering and some revenue coming in by letting the fans think that FoH might be in with a chance.

[brog]

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

You're correct of course Cav but IIRC there's still an overriding caveat that says the Administrator must act at all times in the best interests of the creditors. In that case, if liquidation is likely to realise more through sale of assets than FOH bid then IMO BDO must go that route, particularly as they were appointed by the Liths. I have however thought for some time that BDO have been too close to Yams & less than impartial in this process, particularly when they parroted Foulkes' guff re no one wanting PBS for development. They're a long way from the Duff &'Phelps behaviour but I do think they want to be seen as heroes.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Part Time Supporter seems pretty confident that #allisbarry

So, someone is wrong

Thanks for puting words in my mouth. I dislike this tendency to remove any nuance in an argument...

I believe Ukio will eventually come to an agreement with FOH, because the difference between the valuation as suggested by FOH and their offer is not so great as to be insurmountable. That does not mean that an agreement is close, both in terms of time and money. This assumes that both parties negotiate constructively and that the Lithuanian legal situation is not a significant impediment, which I do not claim to have any expert knowledge of.

It does mean Hearts carrying on in administration for a significant period, preventing any new signings for that duration, with the SFA restriction until 31 January if they exit administration before then. As I said before, if Hibs are unable to take advantage of this situation, whether FOH succeed or not, says more about Hibs than it does about Hearts.

[greenginger]

BDO see themselves as celebrity administrators. They will get acclaimed for saving the Yams but get nothing for getting an extra couple of million for the creditors.

Fortunately they are having to deal with another bunch of administrators.

IIRC there was a new valuation for Tynecastle instructed a couple of weeks ago. Has there been any leaks on that front ?

[poolman]

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

[joe breezy]

Thanks for puting words in my mouth. I dislike this tendency to remove any nuance in an argument...

I believe Ukio will eventually come to an agreement with FOH, because the difference between the valuation as suggested by FOH and their offer is not so great as to be insurmountable. That does not mean that an agreement is close, both in terms of time and money. This assumes that both parties negotiate constructively and that the Lithuanian legal situation is not a significant impediment, which I do not claim to have any expert knowledge of.

It does mean Hearts carrying on in administration for a significant period, preventing any new signings for that duration, with the SFA restriction until 31 January if they exit administration before then. As I said before, if Hibs are unable to take advantage of this situation, whether FOH succeed or not, says more about Hibs than it does about Hearts.

Hibs are absolute pish. I want Hearts to die as I hate them, it has nothing to do with Hibs with me.

Do I hate Hearts more than I love Hibs - yes, they're ****.

I hated them when I supported Partick Thistle and I hate them now.

[Sergey]

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

To me, therein lies the problem of the whole 'movements' longevity.

It would be rather amusing to see them exit administration, only to plunge almost immediately back into administration once pledges dip.

In saying that, I'd still split my sides if they get liquidated.

[Gus Fring]

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

The actual bid doesn't comprise any of the direct debit money as none of that has been collected yet. That will be used to run the club and pay back the debt. The bid compromises one off amounts that individuals who want to help their cause have either donated or loaned to the FOH. These loans will then need to be paid back once the club is on a more stable financial footing.

[Dr Jimmy]

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

I suppose it will come down to how they structure the Direct Debits. If you have to sign for a year then it is no different to a normal subscription model, and budgets can be based on the commits (minus a %). But if they are not asking for a signed yearly commit and allowing people to cancel when they want then they are (in my opinion) donald ducked.

Although, when the novilty of the "we saved the club" wears off and the season tickets are up for renewal, on the back of an average (at best) season their DDs will go through the floor.

[Ozyhibby]

There now seems to be a bit of doubt creeping into the opinion of the experts on here regarding whether they will be liquidated.
There has still been no mention of the shares being frozen by BDO, only that they are waiting on an admin being appointed.
Is a CVA now looking the most likely?

[Gus Fring]

I suppose it will come down to how they structure the Direct Debits. If you have to sign for a year then it is no different to a normal subscription model, and budgets can be based on the commits (minus a %). But if they are not asking for a signed yearly commit and allowing people to cancel when they want then they are (in my opinion) donald ducked.

Although, when the novilty of the "we saved the club" wears off and the season tickets are up for renewal, on the back of an average (at best) season their DDs will go through the floor.

I don't believe there is a minimum period they have to commit for. They could cancel at anytime. I completely agree with you and have said myself in the past that the number is unsustainable for a vast array of reasons. They can't offer anything in return for the pledges further down the line either because I believe they would then have to start paying VAT as it stops being a donation at that point.


There now seems to be a bit of doubt creeping into the opinion of the experts on here regarding whether they will be liquidated.
There has still been no mention of the shares being frozen by BDO, only that they are waiting on an admin being appointed.
Is a CVA now looking the most likely?

My impression is that liquidation is still, by far, the most likely outcome. Even before they went into admin it was barely mentioned by the media that the assets were frozen. Hell, Big Brian Mclaughlin from the BBC told us that Hearts were in the latter stages of being owned by the fans back in march even though it was impossible at that time.

The CVA would only come after the admin of UKIO accepts the FOH bid. It's important to remember that UKIO are the ones with the ability to make or break this and if they accept the bid, FOH will still only own 29.9% of Hearts and Tynecastle. UBIG's shares would then also need to be acquired.

[Treadstone]

I don't believe there is a minimum period they have to commit for. They could cancel at anytime. I completely agree with you and have said myself in the past that the number is unsustainable for a vast array of reasons. They can't offer anything in return for the pledges further down the line either because I believe they would then have to start paying VAT as it stops being a donation at that point.

Wonder if that will affect their voting system for the pledgers ? Probably after the initial board gets their feet under the table.

[Dashing Bob S]

It seems to me that UKIOS are not in the position to accept this FOH (or any other bid) due to the frozen share etc issues in Lithuania.

So the questions would seem to be; 1) Is this bid likely to be acceptable to the Lithuanians? 2) If so, when are they likely to be able to do anything about it and achieve a CVA, presumably before the club run out of cash to operate through this season? 3) And, long term, are FOH really in a position to finance and run the club in an ongoing basis?

[JeMeSouviens]

There now seems to be a bit of doubt creeping into the opinion of the experts on here regarding whether they will be liquidated.
There has still been no mention of the shares being frozen by BDO, only that they are waiting on an admin being appointed.
Is a CVA now looking the most likely?

It's not just a CVA they need: it's satisfaction of the secured creditor, transfer of shares and a CVA.

Even if Bazza's £5M is correct, what does it mean? £5M to Valnetas to satisy the security? Will they also be looking for p/£ on the unsecured debt? Will UBIG's admin appear and what will they want? Will the shares unfreeze? What about the £0.5M football debt that needs paid in full?

Even if all that suddenly comes together, they will most likely end up in Div1 with a large funding shortfall, the debt due to whoever's putting up the cash and a dilapidated ****hole of a stadium still needing replaced.


I don't believe there is a minimum period they have to commit for. They could cancel at anytime. I completely agree with you and have said myself in the past that the number is unsustainable for a vast array of reasons. They can't offer anything in return for the pledges further down the line either because I believe they would then have to start paying VAT as it stops being a donation at that point.



My impression is that liquidation is still, by far, the most likely outcome. Even before they went into admin it was barely mentioned by the media that the assets were frozen. Hell, Big Brian Mclaughlin from the BBC told us that Hearts were in the latter stages of being owned by the fans back in march even though it was impossible at that time.

The CVA would only come after the admin of UKIO accepts the FOH bid. It's important to remember that UKIO are the ones with the ability to make or break this and if they accept the bid, FOH will still only own 29.9% of Hearts and Tynecastle. UBIG's shares would then also need to be acquired.

Do Ukio actually own 29.9%? I thought the 29.9% was put up as security on one of the myriad Ukio->UBIG loans but Ukio still actually owned all 79.9% of their stake?

[#FromTheCapital]

It's not just a CVA they need: it's satisfaction of the secured creditor, transfer of shares and a CVA.

Even if Bazza's £5M is correct, what does it mean? £5M to Valnetas to satisy the security? Will they also be looking for p/£ on the unsecured debt? Will UBIG's admin appear and what will they want? Will the shares unfreeze? What about the £0.5M football debt that needs paid in full?

Even if all that suddenly comes together, they will most likely end up in Div1 with a large funding shortfall, the debt due to whoever's putting up the cash and a dilapidated ****hole of a stadium still needing replaced.

The unsecured creditors will get 0 pence in the £ just like Dunfermline's creditors. HMRC Will reject this and if UBIG's admin reject it then its time for the liquidiser.

[Gus Fring]

The unsecured creditors will get 0 pence in the £ just like Dunfermline's creditors. HMRC Will reject this and if UBIG's admin reject it then its time for the liquidiser.

The proposed CVA is not 0 pence in the £. I don't see why that would change between now and then?

[#FromTheCapital]

The proposed CVA is not 0 pence in the £. I don't see why that would change between now and then?

Was my understanding that unsecured creditors ie everyone bar Ukio, wouldn't be getting a bolt. Was it not mentioned in the BDO document that listed all creditors? If its not 0 pence in the £, what is it?

[Dunderhall]

BDO see themselves as celebrity administrators. They will get acclaimed for saving the Yams but get nothing for getting an extra couple of million for the creditors.

Fortunately they are having to deal with another bunch of administrators.

IIRC there was a new valuation for Tynecastle instructed a couple of weeks ago. Has there been any leaks on that front ?
To be fair to BDO, they have played a marketing game.
If hearts do come out of this they will be seen as the good guys, if hearts don't they will be seen as the good guys who couldn't quite turn things around.

Either way they come out of it with a decent reputation and a good team to appoint for the next football admin case.

[Gus Fring]

Was my understanding that unsecured creditors ie everyone bar Ukio, wouldn't be getting a bolt. Was it not mentioned in the BDO document that listed all creditors? If its not 0 pence in the £, what is it?

My mistake, I didn't see "unsecured" in your post. Sorry, you are quite correct

[Part/Time Supporter]

There now seems to be a bit of doubt creeping into the opinion of the experts on here regarding whether they will be liquidated.
There has still been no mention of the shares being frozen by BDO, only that they are waiting on an admin being appointed.
Is a CVA now looking the most likely?

Again, I think people are reading too much into comments and making rather sweeping generalisations. My perspective of their situation hasn't really changed. I've been saying since early last season that they would go into administration and that liquidation was possible, but not necessarily likely. That applied even when certain folk were saying "you guys always say that and it never happens", etc..

The land value isn't that high and it only needs the fans to get their act together to make a buyout possible. I'm sure that Ukio will demand the land valuation, less a small discount representing sale costs not incurred, but I find it hard to believe that FOH and their backers would allow Hearts to be liquidated for the sake of a relatively small amount of money. The biggest problems facing a takeover now IMO are the inherited problems, ie the likelihood of relegation (last Sunday notwithstanding!) and the funding deficit. Those problems are what make the strength of the pledge scheme very important. Without that additional funding, the cost of a takeover would go up from say £6M to more like £10M, which would be very hard to justify for private investors.

I think other folk have taken the "liquidation is very likely / certain" view because they have a perspective on the Lithuanian situation (Government attitudes to Ukio, prosecution of Romanov and so on) and have drawn a conclusion from that. I've never really shared that view, because there are usually ways of resolving or getting around legal impediments, such as placing funds in an escrow account. Ultimately these decisions are in the control of the Lithuanian government and if they think the best resolution for them is to sell to FOH that's what they'll do.

[Treadstone]

The land value isn't that high and it only needs the fans to get their act together to make a buyout possible. I'm sure that Ukio will demand the land valuation, less a small discount representing sale costs not incurred, but I find it hard to believe that FOH and their backers would allow Hearts to be liquidated for the sake of a relatively small amount of money.

What is the land value ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

What is the land value ?

FOH have said it's £5.5M. Of course, it's in their interests to say that it's a lower figure, but I don't think it's wildly out. A well reasoned post on here some time back explained how land values would have come down by 70%+ since the peak of the market, because the construction costs are relatively fixed. Therefore a relatively small drop in property price would have a much bigger effect on the land. Other folk have thrown about much bigger numbers with little reasoning and comparisons that don't appear to be valid.

[WhileTheChief..]

Ultimately these decisions are in the control of the Lithuanian government and if they think the best resolution for them is to sell to FOH that's what they'll do.


Spot on. Too many on here getting their hopes up I think.

Everyone seems to think that a CVA wont be agreed but its based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Liths might be quite happy to accept £2- £3M just to get rid and they can unfreeze the assets at any time.

The longer this goes on the more likely the CVA is to be accepted.

Hearts will try to paint that as a victory of sorts but the real damage has already been done with the points deduction and transfer embargo.

[#FromTheCapital]

My mistake, I didn't see "unsecured" in your post. Sorry, you are quite correct

:aok:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Spot on. Too many on here getting their hopes up I think.

Everyone seems to think that a CVA wont be agreed but its based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Liths might be quite happy to accept £2- £3M just to get rid and they can unfreeze the assets at any time.

The longer this goes on the more likely the CVA is to be accepted.

Hearts will try to paint that as a victory of sorts but the real damage has already been done with the points deduction and transfer embargo.

I don't think that's right either. If that was the case they would have already accepted FOH's offer and it would just be a case of resolving the legal issues with UBIG.

[carnoustiehibee]

Spot on. Too many on here getting their hopes up I think.

Everyone seems to think that a CVA wont be agreed but its based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Liths might be quite happy to accept £2- £3M just to get rid and they can unfreeze the assets at any time.

The longer this goes on the more likely the CVA is to be accepted.

Hearts will try to paint that as a victory of sorts but the real damage has already been done with the points deduction and transfer embargo.

Points deduction and transfer embargo won't matter a jot if they manage to stay up.

[Gus Fring]

Spot on. Too many on here getting their hopes up I think.

Everyone seems to think that a CVA wont be agreed but its based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Liths might be quite happy to accept £2- £3M just to get rid and they can unfreeze the assets at any time.

The longer this goes on the more likely the CVA is to be accepted.

Hearts will try to paint that as a victory of sorts but the real damage has already been done with the points deduction and transfer embargo.

The CVA has already been provisionally agreed so it's likely that it will go through. I think the bit in bold is unlikely though. I don't know if by "they" you mean UKIO's admin or the government but as i've said in the past, I haven't heard a convincing reason for why a potentially significant part of Vlads empire would be allowed to be cut loose?

[JeMeSouviens]

What is the land value ?

According to Blobbo on Radio Scotland, FoH commissioned a valuation and got £5.6M in use as a stadium, £6M as a development site.

Which kind of ties in with Valnetas being willing to take £5M but FoH being "millions short".

[WhileTheChief..]

The CVA has already been provisionally agreed so it's likely that it will go through. I think the bit in bold is unlikely though. I don't know if by "they" you mean UKIO's admin or the government but as i've said in the past, I haven't heard a convincing reason for why a potentially significant part of Vlads empire would be allowed to be cut loose?

By they I mean the Lith gov't, at least I think it was them that did the freezing.

Is it significant? In comparison to the aluminium plant etc? I'm not so sure.

I just think there's too much speculation that the creditors wont accept £x when in reality no one has a clue. They might be delighted to get anything back - somethings better than nothing.

[whiskyhibby]

Spot on. Too many on here getting their hopes up I think.

Everyone seems to think that a CVA wont be agreed but its based on nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Liths might be quite happy to accept £2- £3M just to get rid and they can unfreeze the assets at any time.

The longer this goes on the more likely the CVA is to be accepted.



I have to disagree with the last point, the longer it goes on the more FOH funds may dissipate on expenses and helping the administrator in the day to day running, they have a pot which is a long way from the asset value of the stadium and this is likely to be whittled away over time

[blackpoolhibs]

The BBC said tonight FOH had bid around £3m.

[Gus Fring]

By they I mean the Lith gov't, at least I think it was them that did the freezing.

Is it significant? In comparison to the aluminium plant etc? I'm not so sure.

I just think there's too much speculation that the creditors wont accept £x when in reality no one has a clue. They might be delighted to get anything back - somethings better than nothing.

I don't know his significant it is and it's likely neither do the authorities at this stage. Hearts could have just been a plaything for Vlad, it might have been the key to his whole operation.

[Treadstone]

According to Blobbo on Radio Scotland, FoH commissioned a valuation and got £5.6M in use as a stadium, £6M as a development site.

Which kind of ties in with Valnetas being willing to take £5M but FoH being "millions short".

Certainly looks like a lot of middle ground still to be achieved. Couple of million doesn't sound a lot when the £28m debt is within earshot but its probably another 75% of what FoH are maxed out currently.

[Billy Whizz]

The BBC said tonight FOH had bid around £3m.

£7million less than the valuation of Jason Holt

[WhileTheChief..]

Points deduction and transfer embargo won't matter a jot if they manage to stay up.

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

I'm not sticking up for them, but they've had the punishments that the rules permit.

I totally understand the clamour on here for them to be liquidated, that's what rivals do, but have a look around, no one else apart from Hibs fans appear to want them dead and buried.

I think they've pretty much moved past the worse now and if they have a couple of backers to front the CVA then so be it. Whether these backers ever get their money back from kiddy-on pledges is a different matter altogether and the chances are that that debt will go unpaid too.

One they're out of admin they will be able to operate on roughly the same level as us but will be starting from a pretty low point squad wise.

To me the critical element in all of this is Tynecastle. I can see FOH buying Hearts but having to rent the stadium back.
A kinda win - win for both Hearts and Hibs fans??!!:confused:

[Mr White]

£7million less than the valuation of Jason Holt

And probably roughly what obua and nade combined took in wages during their time with them.

[Treadstone]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.



£25m of debt shed. Fair play indeed.:cb

[carnoustiehibee]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

Yeh lets give them a big pat on the back if they stay up. Congratulations to the team who have cheated for the best part of ten years with romanov and get away with a 15point deduction.

If that's the only punishment then cheats do prosper.

[WhileTheChief..]

£25m of debt shed. Fair play indeed.:cb

I'm talking about the points deduction and making that up with the squad they have.

In no way am I suggesting that shedding debt via admin is fair play in any way but it is the law of the land.


If that's the only punishment then cheats do prosper.

Totally agree.

[RoYO!]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

I'm not sticking up for them, but they've had the punishments that the rules permit.

I totally understand the clamour on here for them to be liquidated, that's what rivals do, but have a look around, no one else apart from Hibs fans appear to want them dead and buried.

I think they've pretty much moved past the worse now and if they have a couple of backers to front the CVA then so be it. Whether these backers ever get their money back from kiddy-on pledges is a different matter altogether and the chances are that that debt will go unpaid too.

One they're out of admin they will be able to operate on roughly the same level as us but will be starting from a pretty low point squad wise.

To me the critical element in all of this is Tynecastle. I can see FOH buying Hearts but having to rent the stadium back.
A kinda win - win for both Hearts and Hibs fans??!!:confused:

I've spoken to plenty of fans from other teams and they all want them dead. Is that a stab in the dark at a fact? Or have you been looking at polls on other sites?

[Spike Mandela]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

I'm not sticking up for them, but they've had the punishments that the rules permit.

I totally understand the clamour on here for them to be liquidated, that's what rivals do, but have a look around, no one else apart from Hibs fans appear to want them dead and buried.

I think they've pretty much moved past the worse now and if they have a couple of backers to front the CVA then so be it. Whether these backers ever get their money back from kiddy-on pledges is a different matter altogether and the chances are that that debt will go unpaid too.

One they're out of admin they will be able to operate on roughly the same level as us but will be starting from a pretty low point squad wise.

To me the critical element in all of this is Tynecastle. I can see FOH buying Hearts but having to rent the stadium back.
A kinda win - win for both Hearts and Hibs fans??!!:confused:

Yip let's congratulate them for shafting people for over £20m, another roaring success in the Scottish football administration lottery. Thieving tramps.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yip let's congratulate them for shafting people for over £20m, another roaring success in the Scottish football administration lottery. Thieving tramps.

Nah, that's not what I'm saying.

Put everything else aside for a minute, what I'm talking about here is purely the squad of players and manager.

This is a team that pretty much everyone here agrees is the worst Hearts team in decades going by the aftermath of the derby and are stick ons for relegation.

Does that not suggest that staying up would be an achievement, however rotten it would be.

[Sanger]

Yeh lets give them a big pat on the back if they stay up. Congratulations to the team who have cheated for the best part of ten years with romanov and get away with a 15point deduction.

If that's the only punishment then cheats do prosper.
What about the £22m of debt before Romanov came along that they could not pay back and had agreed to sell Tynie to house builders so that they could survive. Been cheating for years!

[CropleyWasGod]

The CVA has already been provisionally agreed so it's likely that it will go through. I think the bit in bold is unlikely though. I don't know if by "they" you mean UKIO's admin or the government but as i've said in the past, I haven't heard a convincing reason for why a potentially significant part of Vlads empire would be allowed to be cut loose?

It hasn't.

All that has been agreed is that BDO can continue on the path they originally proposed. UKIO voted for that, UBIG didn't. If that was reflected in the actual CVA process, the CVA wouldn't pass.

As PTS says, nothing has really changed.

[clerriehibs]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

I'm not sticking up for them, but they've had the punishments that the rules permit.

I totally understand the clamour on here for them to be liquidated, that's what rivals do, but have a look around, no one else apart from Hibs fans appear to want them dead and buried.

I think they've pretty much moved past the worse now and if they have a couple of backers to front the CVA then so be it. Whether these backers ever get their money back from kiddy-on pledges is a different matter altogether and the chances are that that debt will go unpaid too.

One they're out of admin they will be able to operate on roughly the same level as us but will be starting from a pretty low point squad wise.

To me the critical element in all of this is Tynecastle. I can see FOH buying Hearts but having to rent the stadium back.
A kinda win - win for both Hearts and Hibs fans??!!:confused:

Fair play to them? Back room staff still not being paid.

**** them. They stay up, it's still via foul means.

[Dashing Bob S]

It hasn't.

All that has been agreed is that BDO can continue on the path they originally proposed. UKIO voted for that, UBIG didn't. If that was reflected in the actual CVA process, the CVA wouldn't pass.

As PTS says, nothing has really changed.

Yes, people are getting a little excited over nothing. It's hardly surprising that BDO have named FOH as the preferred bidder, as they were effectively the ONLY bidders. The others were either not serious and/or most likely about blatant asset-stripping in the form of land seizure.

A win against a terrible Hibs team might have helped them paper over the cracks and thrown us all into despondency, but it should be remembered that Hearts were garbage too last Sunday, and with Stevenson out they are only going to get weaker.

The club is in serious trouble, and their fate is completely out of their hands. As horrible as it is to be a Hibs fan right now, I certainly wouldn't want to be trading places with them.

[joe breezy]

Yes, people are getting a little excited over nothing. It's hardly surprising that BDO have named FOH as the preferred bidder, as they were effectively the ONLY bidders. The others were either not serious and/or most likely about blatant asset-stripping in the form of land seizure.

A win against a terrible Hibs team might have helped them paper over the cracks and thrown us all into despondency, but it should be remembered that Hearts were garbage too last Sunday, and with Stevenson out they are only going to get weaker.

The club is in serious trouble, and their fate is completely out of their hands. As horrible as it is to be a Hibs fan right now, I certainly wouldn't want to be trading places with them.

This

[johnrebus]

Nothing has changed.

FOH are an irrelevance. Their back of a fag packet bid will never be taken seriously by the Lithuanians.


However, they will be aware of BDO fees accumulating and will shortly push for liquidation.


Goodbye Hearts.

[Waxy]

Say they somehow do get the CVA to go through.
Probably around 20p inthe pound.
What then, they wont have a bolt.
How can they run a club with a few thousand putting in DDs every month?
There has to be a masterplan here.
I reckon they are only here to get them out debt free.
They will then sell a controlling percentage to persons capable of running a FC.slimy cheatin .....,.,

[Geo_1875]

Say they somehow do get the CVA to go through.
Probably around 20p inthe pound.
What then, they wont have a bolt.
How can they run a club with a few thousand putting in DDs every month?
There has to be a masterplan here.
I reckon they are only here to get them out debt free.
They will then sell a controlling percentage to persons capable of running a FC.slimy cheatin .....,.,

Any capital they have will disappear to settle the CVA. The pledges will be used to repay that and also any football debts. Any thing left will be needed to pay running costs until they can start selling next year's season tickets. Even if they have sell outs for the rest of the season there will be a huge shortfall. I can see the Evening News running weekly rallying calls to the faithful.

[Onion]

If they manage to stay up is that not a matter of fair play to them for coming through such a **** storm? Staying up would be an absolutely huge achievement whether we like it or not.

IMHO if they manage to stay up AND keep Tynie, the Vlad Years will have been an outright success - perhaps the biggest coup in Scottish Football. Seven years ago they were in £20M debt and about to lose their ground. Instead they will have had £70M of funding that bought them some top players/teams, two Scottish Cups, 4-0, 5-1, and two Euro ties against top EPL opposition. And they come out the other side debt free. It would make an utter mockery of all other business models :cb

[Steve20]

IMHO if they manage to stay up AND keep Tynie, the Vlad Years will have been an outright success - perhaps the biggest coup in Scottish Football. Seven years ago they were in £20M debt and about to lose their ground. Instead they will have had £70M of funding that bought them some top players/teams, two Scottish Cups, 4-0, 5-1, and two Euro ties against top EPL opposition. And they come out the other side debt free. It would make an utter mockery of all other business models :cb

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I think will happen.

[#FromTheCapital]

Can't understand all the negativity on this thread recently. Nothing has changed really, hearts are still in a bad way. Amazing how a 1-0 defeat to them suddenly means they're going to survive and stay up.

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23491885When any feelings of doubt set in read this and other reports from 2 weeks ago. Preferred bidder status just means the FoH bid has a bigger gap to bridge than the previous top bid by Massone.What ever happened to the new land valuation. I know it was to be confidential but I would have thought there would have been some reference to it making or not making any difference to the amount acceptable to the Lith. Admin.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I think will happen.

You have zero credibility on this issue. I could drag up literally dozens of posts by you along the lines of "administration will never happen".


IMHO if they manage to stay up AND keep Tynie, the Vlad Years will have been an outright success - perhaps the biggest coup in Scottish Football. Seven years ago they were in £20M debt and about to lose their ground. Instead they will have had £70M of funding that bought them some top players/teams, two Scottish Cups, 4-0, 5-1, and two Euro ties against top EPL opposition. And they come out the other side debt free. It would make an utter mockery of all other business models :cb

Presumably if it was such a success, they would seek to repeat it?

[green with envy]

You have zero credibility on this issue. I could drag up literally dozens of posts by you along the lines of "administration will never happen".



Presumably if it was such a success, they would seek to repeat it?


As could I and that goes for the Bounce too.

@ Steve 20, why do you think this?

[MADE IN LEITH]

You have zero credibility on this issue. I could drag up literally dozens of posts by you along the lines of "administration will never happen".



Presumably if it was such a success, they would seek to repeat it?

I have nothing but contempt for football ethics because they cease to exist in my opinion. Clubs go into Administration too often and seem to get away with it. They flout with the processes in place and more than likely come out with a clean sheet. For me, a 15 point punishment is not enough. There really has to be something done to stop this reckless behavior in football and the powers that be should be proactive rather than reactive to clubs who are reckless with their financial structure and don't live within their means.

[Twa Cairpets]

I have nothing but contempt for football ethics because they cease to exist in my opinion. Clubs go into Administration too often and seem to get away with it. They flout with the processes in place and more than likely come out with a clean sheet. For me, a 15 point punishment is not enough. There really has to be something done to stop this reckless behavior in football and the powers that be should be proactive rather than reactive to clubs who are reckless with their financial structure and don't live within their means.

Actually, the only team I can think of off the top of my head that has done well after being in administration is Motherwell. There may be others but most of those that have gone this way have been in trouble for years - think Portsmouth, Livi, Dundee and Coventry.
Not saying football is ethical by the way, just that administration isn't a footballing panacea

[CropleyWasGod]

Say they somehow do get the CVA to go through.
Probably around 20p inthe pound.
What then, they wont have a bolt.
How can they run a club with a few thousand putting in DDs every month?
There has to be a masterplan here.
I reckon they are only here to get them out debt free.
They will then sell a controlling percentage to persons capable of running a FC.slimy cheatin .....,.,

It will not be 20p in the £.

The BDO report says it will be Nil, nothing, nada, to unsecured creditors.

[may 21/05/2016]

Taxman shafted again

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

[MADE IN LEITH]

Actually, the only team I can think of off the top of my head that has done well after being in administration is Motherwell. There may be others but most of those that have gone this way have been in trouble for years - think Portsmouth, Livi, Dundee and Coventry.
Not saying football is ethical by the way, just that administration isn't a footballing panacea

Your right mate, but a lot of other clubs who even haven't entered into Administation have done no better either, hence on balance what have reckless clubs who take chances got to loose.

[Simkin911]

Nothing has really changed has it? They still have to satisfy the Liths re the land security, pay BDO fees, pay outstanding footy debts. That means up front a minimum of say, £5.25m to buy. (Conservatively based on £4.5m, £££220k and £530k). FOH will also have their own legal costs.

Then future and ongoing funding for this season and beyond. We also have an idea of the annual bill to maintain their ramshackle stadium. It's not a pretty picture unless they have several million in up front donations from folk not looking for cash back.

[JeMeSouviens]

IMHO if they manage to stay up AND keep Tynie, the Vlad Years will have been an outright success - perhaps the biggest coup in Scottish Football. Seven years ago they were in £20M debt and about to lose their ground. Instead they will have had £70M of funding that bought them some top players/teams, two Scottish Cups, 4-0, 5-1, and two Euro ties against top EPL opposition. And they come out the other side debt free. It would make an utter mockery of all other business models :cb

It's not exactly been a great business model for Vlad, has it?

Although so called "Financial Fair Play" might change it, there has been absolutely nothing to stop anyone with money (or in their case, access to an easy line of credit) pouring money into a football club. They cheated at the end when it was clear the money had dried up but they kept on signing/didn't cut back to anything like a reasonable level of spending but when the good times were rolling, they were just doing what the structure of our professional football allowed.

Although we were unlucky our rivals found a rich moron in the short term, it's not done much for their long term outlook. Imagine if that £70M had cleared the debt, fully upgraded their stadium and still left over enough to easily make them the next richest wage bill after Celtc. We got off pretty lightly.

[YehButNoBut]

Sounds like HMFC may have came back with a new bid, but has been turned down.

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 On reports of new #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash) bid, BDO say: "We will not be considering any more bids for #Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) because the preferred bidder has been announced"

[johnrebus]

Actually, the only team I can think of off the top of my head that has done well after being in administration is Motherwell. There may be others but most of those that have gone this way have been in trouble for years - think Portsmouth, Livi, Dundee and Coventry.
Not saying football is ethical by the way, just that administration isn't a footballing panacea



You can add Leeds United, Crystal Palace, Southampton, Charlton, Luton Town, Aldershot, Wrexham, Cambridge United and a couple of dozen others to that list.

Only Palace and Southampton have really made it back to anywhere near what they were before.

:cb:

[Dashing Bob S]

It's not exactly been a great business model for Vlad, has it?[/B]

Although so called "Financial Fair Play" might change it, there has been absolutely nothing to stop anyone with money (or in their case, access to an easy line of credit) pouring money into a football club. They cheated at the end when it was clear the money had dried up but they kept on signing/didn't cut back to anything like a reasonable level of spending but when the good times were rolling, they were just doing what the structure of our professional football allowed.

Although we were unlucky our rivals found a rich moron in the short term, it's not done much for their long term outlook. Imagine if that £70M had cleared the debt, fully upgraded their stadium and still left over enough to easily make them the next richest wage bill after Celtc. We got off pretty lightly.

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen.

Scenario One
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Bid dismissed by Lithuanians as too low.
3. Hearts proceed to liquidation, or another appeal to fans results in upped bid, which fails - Hearts proceed to liquidation.

Scenario Two
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Lithuanians unable to accept/reject "at present moment in time" due to frozen assets/pending investigations etc
3. Hearts carry on in administration.
4. Hearts hit cash flow problems before Christmas - enforced liquidation.

I think there will be a request from Lithuanian government and police authorities, in cooperation with UK police and tax officials (not happy at being bumped) to examine all financial and legal documents held by and relating to the club covering the tenure of Romanov, and the possible questioning of all Hearts directors over this period to determine what they knew about the sources of the finance for the inflated player contracts.

Many people are being a little taken in by the local media perspective and looking to see an end game to Hearts problems. I'm a glass is half-full man, and I really believe that these problems are only just beginning.

[MADE IN LEITH]

You can add Leeds United, Crystal Palace, Southampton, Charlton, Luton Town, Aldershot, Wrexham, Cambridge United and a couple of dozen others to that list.

Only Palace and Southampton have really made it back to anywhere near what they were before.

:cb:

Sure, but many half decent clubs in the first place have done quite well and clawed their way back and on the face of it, clubs which were never going to win leagues etc anyway are probably rightly were they are just now even after administration.

Let's face it, once Rangers come back to the Scottish Premiership, it won't be long until they start winning things again. Though this is an exception to the rule.

[Moulin Yarns]

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen.

Scenario One
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Bid dismissed by Lithuanians as too low.
3. Hearts proceed to liquidation, or another appeal to fans results in upped bid, which fails - Hearts proceed to liquidation.

Scenario Two
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Lithuanians unable to accept/reject "at present moment in time" due to frozen assets/pending investigations etc
3. Hearts carry on in administration.
4. Hearts hit cash flow problems before Christmas - enforced liquidation.

I think there will be a request from Lithuanian government and police authorities, in cooperation with UK police and tax officials (not happy at being bumped) to examine all financial and legal documents held by and relating to the club covering the tenure of Romanov, and the possible questioning of all Hearts directors over this period to determine what they knew about the sources of the finance for the inflated player contracts.

Many people are being a little taken in by the local media perspective and looking to see an end game to Hearts problems. I'm a glass is half-full man, and I really believe that these problems are only just beginning.

My hero :greengrin

[Platinum Scotty]

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen.

Scenario One
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Bid dismissed by Lithuanians as too low.
3. Hearts proceed to liquidation, or another appeal to fans results in upped bid, which fails - Hearts proceed to liquidation.

Scenario Two
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Lithuanians unable to accept/reject "at present moment in time" due to frozen assets/pending investigations etc
3. Hearts carry on in administration.
4. Hearts hit cash flow problems before Christmas - enforced liquidation.

I think there will be a request from Lithuanian government and police authorities, in cooperation with UK police and tax officials (not happy at being bumped) to examine all financial and legal documents held by and relating to the club covering the tenure of Romanov, and the possible questioning of all Hearts directors over this period to determine what they knew about the sources of the finance for the inflated player contracts.

Many people are being a little taken in by the local media perspective and looking to see an end game to Hearts problems. I'm a glass is half-full man, and I really believe that these problems are only just beginning.

works for me!!!:greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

Sure, but many half decent clubs in the first place have done quite well and clawed their way back and on the face of it, clubs which were never going to win leagues etc anyway are probably rightly were they are just now even after administration.

Let's face it, once Rangers come back to the Scottish Premiership, it won't be long until they start winning things again. Though this is an exception to the rule.

Don't really buy into this.

The list of clubs who've gone into administration have all (again with the exception I'd say of Motherwell) suffered. Portsmouth, Coventry, Luton, Charlton, Leeds - all premier clubs not so long ago, all now struggling, despite (except Luton) being decent sized clubs. Southampton years in wilderness, same with Palace.

The Huns have been punished - whether we think they got what was due to them or not is moot - in a footballing sense they've been out of the top flight for at leat three years - that is not insignificant. We may want them to suffer for ever, but that would be neither just nor realistic.

Hearts will come out of this - if they do come out of it - hugely weakened.

[hibsmad]

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen.

Scenario One
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Bid dismissed by Lithuanians as too low.
3. Hearts proceed to liquidation, or another appeal to fans results in upped bid, which fails - Hearts proceed to liquidation.

Scenario Two
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Lithuanians unable to accept/reject "at present moment in time" due to frozen assets/pending investigations etc
3. Hearts carry on in administration.
4. Hearts hit cash flow problems before Christmas - enforced liquidation.

I think there will be a request from Lithuanian government and police authorities, in cooperation with UK police and tax officials (not happy at being bumped) to examine all financial and legal documents held by and relating to the club covering the tenure of Romanov, and the possible questioning of all Hearts directors over this period to determine what they knew about the sources of the finance for the inflated player contracts.

Many people are being a little taken in by the local media perspective and looking to see an end game to Hearts problems. I'm a glass is half-full man, and I really believe that these problems are only just beginning.

I love your positive posts on the matter Bob.

Thank you, not for the first time, for raising my spirits just when I start to tell myself that they are going to sneak through this relatively unscathed.

I sincerely hope that you are right.

[MADE IN LEITH]

Don't really buy into this.

The list of clubs who've gone into administration have all (again with the exception I'd say of Motherwell) suffered. Portsmouth, Coventry, Luton, Charlton, Leeds - all premier clubs not so long ago, all now struggling, despite (except Luton) being decent sized clubs. Southampton years in wilderness, same with Palace.

The Huns have been punished - whether we think they got what was due to them or not is moot - in a footballing sense they've been out of the top flight for at leat three years - that is not insignificant. We may want them to suffer for ever, but that would be neither just nor realistic.

Hearts will come out of this - if they do come out of it - hugely weakened.

Sure, It is a hard one to swallow mate, however the bottom line is they will still exist and eventually and come out of it. Three years in my opinion is not a long time and Rangers will be a force in the near future, you can count on that. Further, if Hearts do manage to get out of this, they will still "function" in the Scottish Premiership which isn't a strong League in the first place.

Being realistic, in the English Premiership, there are some clubs which Jockey between the Leagues and have their day, though your right Administration has had a major factor on their stance throughout the years. But I am not wholly buying the principle that Admin is totally to blame for clubs standing over a degree of time.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sure, It is a hard one to swallow mate, however the bottom line is they will still exist and eventually and come out of it. Three years in my opinion is not a long time and Rangers will be a force in the near future, you can count on that. Further, if Hearts do manage to get out of this, they will still "function" in the Scottish Premiership which isn't a strong League in the first place.



Not sure if this is a given, TBH.

They are struggling financially at the moment, and I can't see how they are going to deal with that without cutting their cloth drastically.

[jdships]

One of my neighbour's is a " hands on " member of FOH .
Chatting this morning he is very optimistic for the immediate future but has reservations of the sustainability of working capital without major sponsorship(s)

His quote "........ there is great euphoria among the support at present but to sustain that the team will have to deliver and make progress
and , with the probability of relegation, ensure promotion back to the Premier League . This remembering that in all probability Rangers will also be in the " Championship " next season "

Thought this made a fair bit of sense :agree:

[MADE IN LEITH]

Not sure if this is a given, TBH.

They are struggling financially at the moment, and I can't see how they are going to deal with that without cutting their cloth drastically.

Yeh mate....time will tell.

[Onion]

You have zero credibility on this issue. I could drag up literally dozens of posts by you along the lines of "administration will never happen".



Presumably if it was such a success, they would seek to repeat it?

If they keep the ground, their SPL status, and clear all their debts in one stroke then why wouldn't they ?? In terms of risk/reward, it would be one of the best bits of business in Scottish Football .... ever ! The only people who might not think so would be the Liths.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they keep the ground, their SPL status, and clear all their debts in one stroke then why wouldn't they ?? In terms of risk/reward, it would be one of the best bits of business in Scottish Football .... ever ! The only people who might not think so would be the Liths.

... except that they wouldn't.

They would still have debts to whoever put the money up to buy the club, as well as the football debts.

[Kaiser1962]

Not sure if this is a given, TBH.

They are struggling financially at the moment, and I can't see how they are going to deal with that without cutting their cloth drastically.

Totally agree. They are in trouble.

[Liberal Hibby]

The only people who might not think so would be the Liths.

Who are pulling all the strings in their administration - so why on earth are they going to allow Hearts to get off?

[PatHead]

Does anyone know a realistic timescale now that FoH are named preferred bidder and have access to the books? How long do they have to submit their final offer? I assume it will either be accepted or rejected fairly sharpish as the Liths have been quite quick in responding so far. (Ignoring the fact that assets are frozen.

[Seveno]

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen.

Scenario One
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Bid dismissed by Lithuanians as too low.
3. Hearts proceed to liquidation, or another appeal to fans results in upped bid, which fails - Hearts proceed to liquidation.

Scenario Two
1. FOH named preferred bidder.
2. Lithuanians unable to accept/reject "at present moment in time" due to frozen assets/pending investigations etc
3. Hearts carry on in administration.
4. Hearts hit cash flow problems before Christmas - enforced liquidation.

I think there will be a request from Lithuanian government and police authorities, in cooperation with UK police and tax officials (not happy at being bumped) to examine all financial and legal documents held by and relating to the club covering the tenure of Romanov, and the possible questioning of all Hearts directors over this period to determine what they knew about the sources of the finance for the inflated player contracts.

Many people are being a little taken in by the local media perspective and looking to see an end game to Hearts problems. I'm a glass is half-full man, and I really believe that these problems are only just beginning.

I think and hope that you are correct, Bob. There has to be more than a suspicion that Vlad used Hearts for at least some money laundering. The Lithuanian Financial Crime Unit is unlikely to let this go.

[Twa Cairpets]

... except that they wouldn't.

They would still have debts to whoever put the money up to buy the club, as well as the football debts.

Pocking up WhileTheChiefs point from earlier, if they keep their SPL status at the end of this season, having played all their games, they will have done a bloody good job from a football perspective. This is not in any way to given the merest scintilla of credit to how it is that they have arrived in the position they are in, but ignoring all the crap and acknowledging that they are an institution of the lowest, basest type, if they stay up with that squad then Locke deserves to have the fans build him his own statue, probably reminiscent of "Mannequin Pis" in Brussels but with more lifelike fluid. He'd like that. Allegedly

[PatHead]

I think and hope that you are correct, Bob. There has to be more than a suspicion that Vlad used Hearts for at least some money laundering. The Lithuanian Financial Crime Unit is unlikely to let this go.

Just hope they don't think they are as well to accept the "first" offer and can carry out investigations after the sale is concluded.

[PatHead]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1157388_571421866249636_1840473377_n.png Not wanting to bring politics into the thread just wanted to highlight the quality of man F0H have on their side.

[Just Alf]

Begging letter going out today.....

"Dear Yam,
Yesterday, the joint administrators of Hearts announced that the bid submitted on behalf of the Foundation of Hearts would be “preferred bidder”.

This is a very important announcement and one all the staff were hoping for.

It is an important milestone in the process to get Hearts back on its feet, particularly because it allows the Foundation and the club the opportunity to work together to promote the importance of direct debits.

So far I am told 6,000 supporters have signed up to a monthly commitment from just £10, but to deliver a supporter-controlled Hearts the reality is the more subscriptions the Foundation has, the better it is for the club.

For that reason today I am asking, if you are able, to sign up to a monthly direct debit for the Foundation of Hearts, if you’ve not already done so.

We’ve seen the incredible unity of the club in recent weeks following a very difficult summer. There’s now a real opportunity to create something very special – a moment in Scottish football history.

I know you’ve dug so deep in recent times, for which we’re thankful, but I hope this can be one last push which gives us a future to be excited about.

Set up your Direct Debit today...
Click here and play your part in history

Mon on the Hearts!


Gary Locke
Manager, Heart of Midlothian FC
PS - If you've already set up a direct debit, don't worry, the Foundation has your details - and I thank you sincerely for your support!"

[Liberal Hibby]

We’ve seen the incredible unity of the club in recent weeks following a very difficult summer. There’s now a real opportunity to create something very special – a moment in Scottish football history.



They seem to be getting their 'moments' and 'movements' mixed up. Which is it? Perhaps both 'a movement moment'?

And if Locke saves them from the drop maybe they'll erect a monument for the movement, moment?

Mmmmmm....

[greenginger]

Just hope they don't think they are as well to accept the "first" offer and can carry out investigations after the sale is concluded.


Seeing as the majority of Vlad/UBIG/Ukio Bankas "assets" seemed to be property or development sites is there any reason for the Ukio Admin. to rush in and take the first offer for the PBS ?

I think it will be a considered decision as to what is in the best interests of the Ukio Bankas creditors.

[Twa Cairpets]

Begging letter going out today.....

"Dear Yam,

....

Mon on the Hearts!


"Mon on"?
Fuds

[Phil D. Rolls]

Begging letter going out today.....

"Dear Yam,
Yesterday, the joint administrators of Hearts announced that the bid submitted on behalf of the Foundation of Hearts would be “preferred bidder”.

This is a very important announcement and one all the staff were hoping for.

It is an important milestone in the process to get Hearts back on its feet, particularly because it allows the Foundation and the club the opportunity to work together to promote the importance of direct debits.

So far I am told 6,000 supporters have signed up to a monthly commitment from just £10, but to deliver a supporter-controlled Hearts the reality is the more subscriptions the Foundation has, the better it is for the club.

For that reason today I am asking, if you are able, to sign up to a monthly direct debit for the Foundation of Hearts, if you’ve not already done so.

We’ve seen the incredible unity of the club in recent weeks following a very difficult summer. There’s now a real opportunity to create something very special – a moment in Scottish football history.

I know you’ve dug so deep in recent times, for which we’re thankful, but I hope this can be one last push which gives us a future to be excited about.

Set up your Direct Debit today...
Click here and play your part in history

Mon on the Hearts!


Gary Locke
Manager, Heart of Midlothian FC
PS - If you've already set up a direct debit, don't worry, the Foundation has your details - and I thank you sincerely for your support!"

Does this mean they have been told they need to up their offer, or the club is liquidated?

[CropleyisGod]

I doubt it was ever intended to be, or for Hearts themselves. There's a reason why a warrant has been issued for his arrest and that he's on the run from the authorities. I think the ongoing criminal investigations on where the money came from that was put through Hearts to pay for those salaries, are potentially far more damaging for the club than anything we have seen so far. It's daft to speculate, but here's what I think will happen...

…Portly round faced man in bright stripy blazer enters room…

Mr MP: Hi, I’m Mr MP, Chairman of Save Hearts In Trouble...We are very pleased to have been confirmed as preferred bidders for YOM FC. I’m here to see the books…

Mr BJ [rising from large desk held together with duck tape and supported by bricks): Good to meet you…was that S.H.I.T. you said? I’m with BOD the YOM FC administrators and I’m looking forward to doing business with S.H.I.T..

…the two men shake hands warmly.

Mr BJ: We’ve prepared a diligence room with all the supporting documentation which I’ll take you to shortly…

…Mr BJ rises from his desk. He opens a door into a cupboard and brings out two one piece white overall suits and two protective masks…

Mr BJ: You’ll need to put on this protective clothing I’m afraid, the diligence room is caked in flaking asbestos. You’re wheezing enough as it is and I’m not sure our liability insurance covers you…Ha!Ha!Ha!

…Mr MP struggles to fit his huge torso into the white suit and the mask barely covers the small nose on his massive round head. The two men exit the BOD office and head down a dark, unlit, corridor…

Mr BJ [opening another door, freshly painted]: here it is. The diligence room. I’ll leave you to it because my wife doesn’t like me being in here for long.

Mr MP: Ok, no worries. Surely it can’t be that bad?...

…Mr MP looks around and all he can see is a huge pile of what looks like hamster bedding filling the room…

Mr MP: HOLD ON! Where’s the books?

Mr BJ [pointing at the huge pile of shredded paper]: That’s them there…Mr Ramius the previous owner told us, as he jumped into a taxi, that this was standard practice at the beginning of Administration in his mother Russia.

Mr MP: But what can we do with that?

Mr BJ: Well we got the under 20 team to try and stick the bits together with sellotape for a few days but frankly that caused more problems than it solved, even though every one of them is worth at least £10m…they’re not the brightest. Don’t you know anyone who can help?

Mr MP: Only Lord Pishybreeks but we can’t afford his expenses.

…to be continued

[Lester B]

"Mon on"?
Fuds

:faf:

[StevieC]

but I hope this can be one last push which gives us a future

If the missus had had as many "last pushes" as Hearts, we'd still be waiting on our youngest to be born! :sairhead:

[jacomo]

"Mon on"?
Fuds

Losing a football match to this guy is shaming.

[Gus Fring]

Losing a football match to this guy is shaming.

We didn't lose to him, we lost in spite of him

[Broken Gnome]

Does this mean they have been told they need to up their offer, or the club is liquidated?

Going by the article behind the Times paywall this morning, yes. Can't see it anywhere else. Liquidation threat unless FoH find an extra million in the next two months, and the court case to appoint Lithuanian administrators won't be concluded for another month.

[Sanger]

Going by the article behind the Times paywall this morning, yes. Can't see it anywhere else. Liquidation threat unless FoH find an extra million in the next two months, and the court case to appoint Lithuanian administrators won't be concluded for another month.
What's the source of the Times £1 million more needed? Given FOH are rumoured to up their bid to £3m and were still described as being millions short. That would make the Liths looking for £4 million which means FOH were not millions short. £4m must be well short of any land valuation of the ground.

[greenpaper55]

The times piece is here

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/scotland/article3845664.ece

it does not look good for them.

[Geo_1875]

Begging letter going out today.....

"Dear Yam,
Yesterday, the joint administrators of Hearts announced that the bid submitted on behalf of the Foundation of Hearts would be “preferred bidder”.

This is a very important announcement and one all the staff were hoping for.

It is an important milestone in the process to get Hearts back on its feet, particularly because it allows the Foundation and the club the opportunity to work together to promote the importance of direct debits.

So far I am told 6,000 supporters have signed up to a monthly commitment from just £10, but to deliver a supporter-controlled Hearts the reality is the more subscriptions the Foundation has, the better it is for the club.

For that reason today I am asking, if you are able, to sign up to a monthly direct debit for the Foundation of Hearts, if you’ve not already done so.

We’ve seen the incredible unity of the club in recent weeks following a very difficult summer. There’s now a real opportunity to create something very special – a moment in Scottish football history.

I know you’ve dug so deep in recent times, for which we’re thankful, but I hope this can be one last push which gives us a future to be excited about.

Set up your Direct Debit today...
Click here and play your part in history

Mon on the Hearts!


Gary Locke
Manager, Heart of Midlothian FC
PS - If you've already set up a direct debit, don't worry, the Foundation has your details - and I thank you sincerely for your support!"

I can't believe that this is a genuine letter from Lockie. Nowhere does it reference Hibernian FC, 5-1 or 22 in a row.

[Bleeds green]

Can someone on here copy and paste the whole article instead of having to subscribe? IMO if it is only 1 million short to save the club they will again get fans involved for one last push and achieve that! 😟

[BarneyK]

Can someone on here copy and paste the whole article instead of having to subscribe? IMO if it is only 1 million short to save the club they will again get fans involved for one last push and achieve that! 

:agree: I would have thought so. Then again, another two months of BDO fees, of running costs, etc. They could really do with that £10m bid for Jason Holt coming in soon though :wink:

[Treadstone]

I can't believe that this is a genuine letter from Lockie. Nowhere does it reference Hibernian FC, 5-1 or 22 in a row.

Its not a genuine letter from Locke. An appeal by FoH signed by the manager to circumvent the Data Protection Act.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

If the times article is true then I can easily see them raise £1million within one or two months.

However, I can't see this being accurate. The land must be worth around £9million and I reckon FoH are well short on this. I also expect the Liths to get the highest price for their creditors.

[adhibs]

That article will put a dampner on there big celebrations after getting a point agaisnt partick. They'll raise the money, just means even less to play with at the other end

[clerriehibs]

Say they somehow do get the CVA to go through.
Probably around 20p inthe pound.
What then, they wont have a bolt.
How can they run a club with a few thousand putting in DDs every month?
There has to be a masterplan here.
I reckon they are only here to get them out debt free.
They will then sell a controlling percentage to persons capable of running a FC.slimy cheatin .....,.,

On top of all that; what's the proposed ownership model foh propose? If it's just a rammy of fans pitching a few quid in every month all having a say in the direction the club moves, they're just as doomed.

[#FromTheCapital]

That article will put a dampner on there big celebrations after getting a point agaisnt partick. They'll raise the money, just means even less to play with at the other end

I don't think they'll care too much about money at the other end, getting there is the main thing for them. The frozen shares look like they could be the biggest obstacle to overcome if that article is accurate. 1m would be raised by the fans no doubt, but if the club itself only have enough money to last another couple of months then who do they give their money to? FoH or HOMFC?

[greenginger]

If the times article is true then I can easily see them raise £1million within one or two months.

However, I can't see this being accurate. The land must be worth around £9million and I reckon FoH are well short on this. I also expect the Liths to get the highest price for their creditors.


I reckon its a story planted by FoH. Enough emphasis on the need for more money without showing it to be impossible.

I'm sure FoH powerbrokers will be brown-nosing behind the scenes for other funding sources than fans direct debits.

[Col2]

I don't think they'll care too much about money at the other end, getting there is the main thing for them. The frozen shares look like they could be the biggest obstacle to overcome if that article is accurate. 1m would be raised by the fans no doubt, but if the club itself only have enough money to last another couple of months then who do they give their money to? FoH or HOMFC?


I am not so sure they can raise £1m from fans in two months, over and above pledges, donations, season tickets etc. I also don't believe it's a £1m gap, I reckon this will be the minimum , absolute minimum FOH feel they need.

[Broken Gnome]

The suggestion is that the land is worth less than £3m. Surely not?

[#FromTheCapital]

I am not so sure they can raise £1m from fans in two months, over and above pledges, donations, season tickets etc. I also don't believe it's a £1m gap, I reckon this will be the minimum , absolute minimum FOH feel they need.

A lot of people said that about the share scam and when they had to sell an extra 3k season tickets in 2 weeks but they done it. But I get what you're saying, hearts fans have been paying fortunes to keep their grubby wee club going for the last year and that can't last forever.

Another thing about that article, if they genuinely only have enough money to last till October then surely they would have sold Jason Holt.

[Smidge]

If the times article is true then I can easily see them raise £1million within one or two months.

However, I can't see this being accurate. The land must be worth around £9million and I reckon FoH are well short on this. I also expect the Liths to get the highest price for their creditors.

No danger is the land worth anywhere like £9m. See my analysis on p.803 - post 24072. Yes, there are some assumptions, but broadly speaking it is unlikely that the value of the land is more than £5-6m.

[Spike Mandela]

The suggestion is that the land is worth less than £3m. Surely not?

This is getting ridiculous like Monty Pythons 4 Yorkshiremen sketch. Soon FoH will have us believe that Ukio will have to pay somebody to take the land off them lol.

[weonlywon6-2]

I am not so sure they can raise £1m from fans in two months, over and above pledges, donations, season tickets etc. I also don't believe it's a £1m gap, I reckon this will be the minimum , absolute minimum FOH feel they need.

I think they might make it but what happens after that??.wheres the money going to come that keeps them afloat.relying on fans direct debits once a month is not the answer

[God Petrie]

Where does this mythical £1m figure come from?

[Bill Milne]

Got this from Keechback :-

"Hearts fans have just two months to find extra £1m or club’s gates close for good

Heart of Midlothian faces liquidation within two months unless the preferred bidder for the stricken football club increases its offer by about £1 million and a court case involving its largest shareholder is settled quickly.
Time is running out in the race to save one of Scotland’s oldest football teams amid wrangling over its value and after it emerged that a court battle in Lithuania to appoint administrators to the club’s biggest shareholder will not be settled for at least four weeks.
An insider said: “Right now, Hearts only has enough cash to keep going until mid-October. Things really need to progress. It’s a race against time.”
The source said fans group Foundation of Hearts, which was named as the preferred bidder this week, needs to raise its £3 million offer by “up to £1 million” to bring it closer to the £5 million value the administrators of Ukio Bankas has put on the club and its assets.
Ukio Bankas is the liquidated Lithuanian bank that holds a 29.9 per cent stake in Hearts. It was controlled by former Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov. Its Lithuanian administrator also has a claim against the club’s Tynecastle stadium as security on the money the bank is owed. The administrator believes liquidation and a disposal of assets, which would include the sale of Tynecastle to a developer, will offer better value for creditors.
The insider said: “There’s a big gap between Foundation of Hearts’ offer and what the administrator of Ukio expects to get for the club. There is a need to close that gap and the hope is that both parties will compromise and meet in the middle.”
Foundation of Hearts’ elevation to being preferred bidder is known to have been dependent on it raising its bid, although so far the group has not made an increased offer.
The club’s assets are relatively small. A developer could buy the stadium plot and keep the land for future use but estimates put its value at less than £3m.
Meanwhile, objections lodged in Lithuania over the proposed liquidation of UBIG, Hearts’ parent company, which owns half of the club’s shares, look set to delay matters further. UBIG was also controlled by Mr Romanov and is owed £10 million by Hearts. A group of UBIG’s creditors objected to the appointment of the administrator recommended by another set of creditors. Until the court makes a decision on an administrator, the sale of Hearts can be completed.
“Agreement on the value of the club is the main thing right now,” said a source. “The eventual administrators of UBIG will clearly want something for their 50 per cent stake but that will amount to a nuisance payment, probably in the region of a high five-figure sum. UBIG isn’t a secured creditor, so if the club ends up being liquidated UBIG will get absolutely nothing. “ If Foundation of Hearts is successful in buying the club, it will also have to settle for ownership of just 79 per cent of the club’s shares. The administrator has been unable to secure the stake in the club held by Quantum Holdings, a company thought to be owned by Mr Romanov.
Quantum Holdings, a company based in Geneva, holds 15 per cent of Hearts’ shares. When Quantum was established, Mr Romanov’s niece, Julija Goncaruk, was listed as a director. Ms Goncaruk was also a director of Hearts. She is no longer listed as a director of Quantum Holdings and the company was unavailable for comment."

[big-mo]

Having watched the situation with Hearts unfold over the last few months since the original rumblings of problems with the Lith bank and Investment group, I have wondered how it can all pan out.
Comparing it to other clubs that have gone into administration, I don't think there have been any where the club was still running but the owners have gone into administration or liquidation. This scenario of HMFC having to go into administration and appointing BDO and for them having to deal with the main creditor who happens to be another administration company is a bit of an anomaly.
The Lith administrators will have to do their best to get as much money back from their creditors as they can. If Hearts were still due money from anyone owing them money, would they accept 20p or less in the pound?

From the original set of figures issued by BDO last month, they said that the book value of the stadium was £13.75m but they were unable to put a current value on the round until Jones Lang LaSalle reported back on the current value. JLL will be looking at the ground and will give a valuation on it as a on-going football ground AND as the land value for future development. Even assuming that any club overvalue their assets, and you could say that it was only worth half their valuation, it would still be worth £6m. If so, why would the Lith Admin's take less than £4 for the whole club and stadium.

If I were the Lith Admin's I would be looking to sell the ground and then sell the club to the FoH for c£1m, they then would have £7 for their CVA. This would result in HMFC surviving but without a ground to play in, unless they could do a deal with the new owners of EH11 2NL until it is redeveloped.

On another point, I can not see why FoH keep looking for more fans to pledge more money for ongoing donations as I am fairly sure the the creditor do not give jot as to what money would be coming into the club after they have sold it, all they are looking for is the readies up front.

Does anyone think that FoH have done themselves a disservice claiming that they have emailed 65,000 Hearts fans? I don't even think either of the old firm teams would have that many email addresses on their database.

[Bill Milne]

If Hertz are contacting all the people on their database, there are going to be an awful lot of bogus FOH pledgers receiving Mr Locke's epistle. I take it they will keep the rest of us notified of the soaraway success of this latest attempted mugging of the increasingly poor Hertz fans.

[HFC 0-7]

I am not so sure they can raise £1m from fans in two months, over and above pledges, donations, season tickets etc. I also don't believe it's a £1m gap, I reckon this will be the minimum , absolute minimum FOH feel they need.

they dont have to go to the fans really to raise this. They have a couple of people who are fronting the cash, the pledges are their to pay it back and some for running costs. Its really up to those few people who are fronting it to say 'yes, here is another 1million'. Its how they pay that money back, they could say to their pledgers that they will need them to sign up to an additional year of pledges.

That article looks suspect to me, " needs to raise its £3 million offer by “up to £1 million” to bring it closer to the £5 million value the administrators of Ukio Bankas has put on the club and its assets."

Yes 1 million will bring it closer to the valuation, but if 5 million is the valuation and asking price then they are not going to get it. Where did this 5 million asking price come from? We know their is a security of 6.8 million, we know FOH hearts have overed 3 Million. It looks to me as if FOH are trying to meet in the middle and sending out these stories to the press


Having watched the situation with Hearts unfold over the last few months since the original rumblings of problems with the Lith bank and Investment group, I have wondered how it can all pan out.
Comparing it to other clubs that have gone into administration, I don't think there have been any where the club was still running but the owners have gone into administration or liquidation. This scenario of HMFC having to go into administration and appointing BDO and for them having to deal with the main creditor who happens to be another administration company is a bit of an anomaly.
The Lith administrators will have to do their best to get as much money back from their creditors as they can. If Hearts were still due money from anyone owing them money, would they accept 20p or less in the pound?

From the original set of figures issued by BDO last month, they said that the book value of the stadium was £13.75m but they were unable to put a current value on the round until Jones Lang LaSalle reported back on the current value. JLL will be looking at the ground and will give a valuation on it as a on-going football ground AND as the land value for future development. Even assuming that any club overvalue their assets, and you could say that it was only worth half their valuation, it would still be worth £6m. If so, why would the Lith Admin's take less than £4 for the whole club and stadium.

If I were the Lith Admin's I would be looking to sell the ground and then sell the club to the FoH for c£1m, they then would have £7 for their CVA. This would result in HMFC surviving but without a ground to play in, unless they could do a deal with the new owners of EH11 2NL until it is redeveloped.

On another point, I can not see why FoH keep looking for more fans to pledge more money for ongoing donations as I am fairly sure the the creditor do not give jot as to what money would be coming into the club after they have sold it, all they are looking for is the readies up front.

Does anyone think that FoH have done themselves a disservice claiming that they have emailed 65,000 Hearts fans? I don't even think either of the old firm teams would have that many email addresses on their database.

These pledges are to pay the people back fronting the cash for a takeover. If they get a lot more pledges there is a chance the people fronting the bid could offer more up front cash. Time is ticking now though and the people fronting the cash need to make quick decisions about how much money hearts will be able to afford to pay back, they wont want to save the club then be the ones forcing them back into admin when the pledges dry up and they arent repaying the cash.

The only way I can see more cash being added up front is if the pledgers accept to keep the DD's going for longer, pay the loan at the same rate but use the pledges for running the club. That would mean as soon as sponsor money, ST money comes in its straight out to pay the people giving the loan leaving the club to live off the pledges. Dangerous IMO.

[Leishy1995]

If Hertz are contacting all the people on their database, there are going to be an awful lot of bogus FOH pledgers receiving Mr Locke's epistle. I take it they will keep the rest of us notified of the soaraway success of this latest attempted mugging of the increasingly poor Hertz fans.

A fair amount if hibees have told me they got the Locke email

[Dunderhall]

Where does this mythical £1m figure come from?
It was quoted by Brian McGlauchlin in this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23491885) which was keech, and subsequently updated with info from Chris McGlaughlin to millions, but not as high as £5m.

[Gus Fring]

As it stood yesterday, neither BDO or FOH knew the amount UKIO were asking, they were just told to increase their bid a few weeks ago which they did. I don't understand why UKIO or BDO would be leaking this figure to the press. It's guesswork.

BDO's plan is to argue that this is the best price UKIO are going to get out of any outcome.

FOH are very reluctant to take donations from fans to fund the actual purchase of the club in case they are unsuccessful, so this talk of how easily they'll raise another £1m is way off because they've no way to actually do it. This is why direct debits haven't been collected yet. The key to the whole FOH bid is that it will only cost fans money after the club is in FOH control.

Additionally, the general feeling about UKIO is that they need a really decent offer to make a convincing case to the lith authorities to unfreeze the assets. Going to them and saying "We've got a pish offer for part of glads empire so please let us sell it off and make it much harder to investigate" isn't going to fly.

[Waxy]

This will be two christmas in a row that yamspawn will be waking up to an apple and an orange.

[Dashing Bob S]

Having watched the situation with Hearts unfold over the last few months since the original rumblings of problems with the Lith bank and Investment group, I have wondered how it can all pan out.
Comparing it to other clubs that have gone into administration, I don't think there have been any where the club was still running but the owners have gone into administration or liquidation. This scenario of HMFC having to go into administration and appointing BDO and for them having to deal with the main creditor who happens to be another administration company is a bit of an anomaly.
The Lith administrators will have to do their best to get as much money back from their creditors as they can. If Hearts were still due money from anyone owing them money, would they accept 20p or less in the pound?

From the original set of figures issued by BDO last month, they said that the book value of the stadium was £13.75m but they were unable to put a current value on the round until Jones Lang LaSalle reported back on the current value. JLL will be looking at the ground and will give a valuation on it as a on-going football ground AND as the land value for future development. Even assuming that any club overvalue their assets, and you could say that it was only worth half their valuation, it would still be worth £6m. If so, why would the Lith Admin's take less than £4 for the whole club and stadium.

If I were the Lith Admin's I would be looking to sell the ground and then sell the club to the FoH for c£1m, they then would have £7 for their CVA. This would result in HMFC surviving but without a ground to play in, unless they could do a deal with the new owners of EH11 2NL until it is redeveloped.

On another point, I can not see why FoH keep looking for more fans to pledge more money for ongoing donations as I am fairly sure the the creditor do not give jot as to what money would be coming into the club after they have sold it, all they are looking for is the readies up front.

Does anyone think that FoH have done themselves a disservice claiming that they have emailed 65,000 Hearts fans? I don't even think either of the old firm teams would have that many email addresses on their database.


Not at all. It still leaves a shortfall of 335,000, which illustrates that FOH are correct - there is still a lot of work to be done to save Hearts.


Got this from Keechback :-

"Hearts fans have just two months to find extra £1m or club’s gates close for good

Heart of Midlothian faces liquidation within two months unless the preferred bidder for the stricken football club increases its offer by about £1 million and a court case involving its largest shareholder is settled quickly.
Time is running out in the race to save one of Scotland’s oldest football teams amid wrangling over its value and after it emerged that a court battle in Lithuania to appoint administrators to the club’s biggest shareholder will not be settled for at least four weeks.
An insider said: “Right now, Hearts only has enough cash to keep going until mid-October. Things really need to progress. It’s a race against time.”
The source said fans group Foundation of Hearts, which was named as the preferred bidder this week, needs to raise its £3 million offer by “up to £1 million” to bring it closer to the £5 million value the administrators of Ukio Bankas has put on the club and its assets.
Ukio Bankas is the liquidated Lithuanian bank that holds a 29.9 per cent stake in Hearts. It was controlled by former Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov. Its Lithuanian administrator also has a claim against the club’s Tynecastle stadium as security on the money the bank is owed. The administrator believes liquidation and a disposal of assets, which would include the sale of Tynecastle to a developer, will offer better value for creditors.
The insider said: “There’s a big gap between Foundation of Hearts’ offer and what the administrator of Ukio expects to get for the club. There is a need to close that gap and the hope is that both parties will compromise and meet in the middle.”
Foundation of Hearts’ elevation to being preferred bidder is known to have been dependent on it raising its bid, although so far the group has not made an increased offer.
The club’s assets are relatively small. A developer could buy the stadium plot and keep the land for future use but estimates put its value at less than £3m.
Meanwhile, objections lodged in Lithuania over the proposed liquidation of UBIG, Hearts’ parent company, which owns half of the club’s shares, look set to delay matters further. UBIG was also controlled by Mr Romanov and is owed £10 million by Hearts. A group of UBIG’s creditors objected to the appointment of the administrator recommended by another set of creditors. Until the court makes a decision on an administrator, the sale of Hearts can be completed.
“Agreement on the value of the club is the main thing right now,” said a source. “The eventual administrators of UBIG will clearly want something for their 50 per cent stake but that will amount to a nuisance payment, probably in the region of a high five-figure sum. UBIG isn’t a secured creditor, so if the club ends up being liquidated UBIG will get absolutely nothing. “ If Foundation of Hearts is successful in buying the club, it will also have to settle for ownership of just 79 per cent of the club’s shares. The administrator has been unable to secure the stake in the club held by Quantum Holdings, a company thought to be owned by Mr Romanov.
Quantum Holdings, a company based in Geneva, holds 15 per cent of Hearts’ shares. When Quantum was established, Mr Romanov’s niece, Julija Goncaruk, was listed as a director. Ms Goncaruk was also a director of Hearts. She is no longer listed as a director of Quantum Holdings and the company was unavailable for comment."

I like this, I always believed they had enough to get up to Christmas. Although it's probably the usual Yam kid(dyfiddle)ology, hoping to scare the masses into parting with even more cash.


As it stood yesterday, neither BDO or FOH knew the amount UKIO were asking, they were just told to increase their bid a few weeks ago which they did. I don't understand why UKIO or BDO would be leaking this figure to the press. It's guesswork.

BDO's plan is to argue that this is the best price UKIO are going to get out of any outcome.

FOH are very reluctant to take donations from fans to fund the actual purchase of the club in case they are unsuccessful, so this talk of how easily they'll raise another £1m is way off because they've no way to actually do it. This is why direct debits haven't been collected yet. The key to the whole FOH bid is that it will only cost fans money after the club is in FOH control.

Additionally, the general feeling about UKIO is that they need a really decent offer to make a convincing case to the lith authorities to unfreeze the assets. Going to them and saying "We've got a pish offer for part of glads empire so please let us sell it off and make it much harder to investigate" isn't going to fly.

It's strange that people on Hibs net have been saying for months,'hold on Senior Yambolino, this frozen asset/criminal investigation thingy going on in Lithland might just have some impact on your plans', while the Jambos and the media covering this sordid issue have repeatedly ignored this, or dismissed it as some minor detail, which can brushed aside. The Lith authorities seem to have their teeth right into this and aren't going to be bought off, certainly not for the pie-in-the-sky peanuts FOH are offering. Additionally, BDO have to sell to the Lithuanians the fact that FOH don't have hard cash, just relatively worthless (in business terms) statement-of-intent 'financing' from the fans (in reality, the total amount will be much less if they try to cash it in), and that they intend to raise the shortfall (however much that is) by asking the fans for more of these worthless pledges.

They will laugh chocolate biscuits at this nonsense, or more likely, be very angry and insulted at the waste of their time.

In a perverse way, I would actually love it if they were crazy enough to give the FOH bid some conditional acceptance, setting a deadline of say, Sept 20, for all the money (say 5-6 mill) to be in their bank account. The mad scrambling, with the begging, cajoling and threatening, and then the subsequent orgy of self-loathing, followed by the bitter recriminations when this cash target wasn't achieved, would be joyous to behold. Then you would doubtlessly hear that the full amount they raised was something like 1.93 mill, with one million of that coming in the form of a special bond from some business person.

However, I suspect that Jackson and BDO know that Hearts are dead in the water, and that they are just doing their duty and going through the motions.

More interesting to me is the role FOH will play in a post-liquidation Hearts. This is probably the best chance they'll have to make a genuine, fan-owned model of a football club work, and they'll be starting with zero debt. Of course, it'll be a long, long way back through the divisions for them, and they'll be homeless.

[Eternal Hibbie]

This will be two christmas in a row that yamspawn will be waking up to an apple and an orange.

Yeah, and an i.o.u. for their shares certificate.

[The Green Goblin]

Got this from Keechback :-

"Hearts fans have just two months to find extra £1m or club’s gates close for good

Heart of Midlothian faces liquidation within two months unless the preferred bidder for the stricken football club increases its offer by about £1 million and a court case involving its largest shareholder is settled quickly.
Time is running out in the race to save one of Scotland’s oldest football teams amid wrangling over its value and after it emerged that a court battle in Lithuania to appoint administrators to the club’s biggest shareholder will not be settled for at least four weeks.
An insider said: “Right now, Hearts only has enough cash to keep going until mid-October. Things really need to progress. It’s a race against time.”
The source said fans group Foundation of Hearts, which was named as the preferred bidder this week, needs to raise its £3 million offer by “up to £1 million” to bring it closer to the £5 million value the administrators of Ukio Bankas has put on the club and its assets.
Ukio Bankas is the liquidated Lithuanian bank that holds a 29.9 per cent stake in Hearts. It was controlled by former Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov. Its Lithuanian administrator also has a claim against the club’s Tynecastle stadium as security on the money the bank is owed. The administrator believes liquidation and a disposal of assets, which would include the sale of Tynecastle to a developer, will offer better value for creditors.
The insider said: “There’s a big gap between Foundation of Hearts’ offer and what the administrator of Ukio expects to get for the club. There is a need to close that gap and the hope is that both parties will compromise and meet in the middle.”
Foundation of Hearts’ elevation to being preferred bidder is known to have been dependent on it raising its bid, although so far the group has not made an increased offer.
The club’s assets are relatively small. A developer could buy the stadium plot and keep the land for future use but estimates put its value at less than £3m.
Meanwhile, objections lodged in Lithuania over the proposed liquidation of UBIG, Hearts’ parent company, which owns half of the club’s shares, look set to delay matters further. UBIG was also controlled by Mr Romanov and is owed £10 million by Hearts. A group of UBIG’s creditors objected to the appointment of the administrator recommended by another set of creditors. Until the court makes a decision on an administrator, the sale of Hearts can be completed.
“Agreement on the value of the club is the main thing right now,” said a source. “The eventual administrators of UBIG will clearly want something for their 50 per cent stake but that will amount to a nuisance payment, probably in the region of a high five-figure sum. UBIG isn’t a secured creditor, so if the club ends up being liquidated UBIG will get absolutely nothing. “ If Foundation of Hearts is successful in buying the club, it will also have to settle for ownership of just 79 per cent of the club’s shares. The administrator has been unable to secure the stake in the club held by Quantum Holdings, a company thought to be owned by Mr Romanov.
Quantum Holdings, a company based in Geneva, holds 15 per cent of Hearts’ shares. When Quantum was established, Mr Romanov’s niece, Julija Goncaruk, was listed as a director. Ms Goncaruk was also a director of Hearts. She is no longer listed as a director of Quantum Holdings and the company was unavailable for comment."

"Mr. Romanov"... That gets right on my wick.

[Iggy Pope]

"Mr. Romanov"... That gets right on my wick.

I think you will find that this is a cut and paste from The Times. Far too many sentences put together in a pleasing construction to have been written by a plum. Don't let 'sources' get on yer wick. Or (what appears to be) a proper journalist.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

As someone posted a page or two ago when are the media going to highlight the fact that the final outcome is not going to happen anytime soon due to the situation in Lithuania? It seems to be getting conveniently ignored except on .net.

[Gus Fring]

As someone posted a page or two ago when are the media going to highlight the fact that the final outcome is not going to happen anytime soon due to the situation in Lithuania? It seems to be getting conveniently ignored except on .net.

If they acknowledge that then it gives them considerably less to write/talk about. They can get far more value out of pontificating about Hearts survival. By keeping the frozen assets quiet for the time being it lets the uninformed public think they are getting an unfolding story when in reality nothing has changed for days/weeks. A good journalist will ration his exclusive content across as long a period.

An editor once said to me "A story is like an elastic band, you stretch as far as you can, taking it slowly. Once it snaps and nobody is interested any more you move on to the next elastic band as quickly as possible"

[Dashing Bob S]

If they acknowledge that then it gives them considerably less to write/talk about. They can get far more value out of pontificating about Hearts survival. By keeping the frozen assets quiet for the time being it lets the uninformed public think they are getting an unfolding story when in reality nothing has changed for days/weeks. A good journalist will ration his exclusive content across as long a period.

An editor once said to me "A story is like an elastic band, you stretch as far as you can, taking it slowly. Once it snaps and nobody is interested any more you move on to the next elastic band as quickly as possible"

Yes, unless something totally left-field and out-of-the-ordinary happens, the next big story is liquidation - either over the next couple of weeks or more likely when the money runs out, probably between October and New Year.

The rest is just -literally- a media circus.

[Hank Schrader]

"Mr. Romanov"... That gets right on my wick.

:agree: Gives me the dry boke. No doubt some of the "believers" still refer to him like that. Roasters.

[PapillonVert]

If they acknowledge that then it gives them considerably less to write/talk about. They can get far more value out of pontificating about Hearts survival. By keeping the frozen assets quiet for the time being it lets the uninformed public think they are getting an unfolding story when in reality nothing has changed for days/weeks. A good journalist will ration his exclusive content across as long a period.

An editor once said to me "A story is like an elastic band, you stretch as far as you can, taking it slowly. Once it snaps and nobody is interested any more you move on to the next elastic band as quickly as possible"

I wonder if it's not even simpler than what you suggest, Bajillions...i.e. they just don't have the foggiest idea what is going on and are writing what they hope and believe to be the case.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I wonder if it's not even simpler than what you suggest, Bajillions...i.e. they just don't have the foggiest idea what is going on and are writing what they hope and believe to be the case.

Thats my reading of it, thought they might've learned a few lessons from the sevco debacle.

[PapillonVert]

Thats my reading of it, thought they might've learned a few lessons from the sevco debacle.

Ha, learn from the past! They might have to write the truth then, Hutchy!

Now, that would never do, dear boy!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The thing is though, the cyber media age we now live in means we dont need to rely on MSM for info anymore, so, you'd think they'd be as well telling the truth.

[hibees 7062]

The thing is though, the cyber media age we now live in means we dont need to rely on MSM for info anymore, so, you'd think they'd be as well telling the truth.

Typical yams this Hutchy , worry about tomorrow , tomorrow :agree:

[Dunderhall]

I wonder if it's not even simpler than what you suggest, Bajillions...i.e. they just don't have the foggiest idea what is going on and are writing what they hope and believe to be the case.
That has been shown to be the case on numerous occasions.
Remember these guys are sports reporters, there is no reason why they should understand the whole situation. They couldn't investigate the situation even if the will was there.

As long as the get their columns filled on time, job's a good un.

[Treadstone]

The thing is though, the cyber media age we now live in means we dont need to rely on MSM for info anymore, so, you'd think they'd be as well telling the truth.

Bathgate is the one that riles me. Didn't even know the correct deduction if the yams had went into admin last season. Now he writes as though he is a veteran real estate speculator and chief secretary to the treasury.

[God Petrie]

The Celtic fans were on the case about Sevco a long time before the media. A Celtic boy I used to work with was delighted when they went into admin because he knew it would lead to them going bust.

I'm pretty sure it will be the same case with Hearts as Hibs.net has been on top of the situation since Romanov
took over that mob.

In all our current troubles don't forget we have survived the situation they are in and they probably won't. 1914 FC will be lucky to compete in the next 30 years given they aren't rangers and won't come out with an infrastructure of any kind.

[Treadstone]

Jamie Borthwick ‏@jamiekborthwick (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)4m (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/369381310952783872)
FoH announces bid structure today. Separate entities to buy the club, then purchase it back over time.


Jamie Borthwick ‏@jamiekborthwick (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)3m (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/369381784812662784)
Business community (Bidco) fund CVA, and fans (Fanco) enter binding contract to pay back and take full control. Stress Bidco will not gain.


Binding ! Very interesting.

[BarneyK]

Jamie Borthwick ‏@jamiekborthwick (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)4m (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/369381310952783872)
FoH announces bid structure today. Separate entities to buy the club, then purchase it back over time.


Jamie Borthwick ‏@jamiekborthwick (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)3m (https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/369381784812662784)
Business community (Bidco) fund CVA, and fans (Fanco) enter binding contract to pay back and take full control. Stress Bidco will not gain.


Binding ! Very interesting.

Aye how does that work? You're not allowed to cancel your direct debit if you lose your job?

[Treadstone]

Aye how does that work? You're not allowed to cancel your direct debit if you lose your job?

And we are not talking 12 months here either are we ?

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/outline-detail-of-foundation-of-hearts-proposal-explained/



Structure of Foundation of Hearts backed bid announced
FANCO, controlled by Foundation of Hearts, will enter binding contract with BIDCO to deliver ultimate fan ownership
BIDCO funders will not make any personal gain out of the agreement with FANCO
Partnership will ultimately deliver supporter ownership

The Foundation of Hearts is today (19 August) pleased to confirm the outline of its bid for control of Heart of Midlothian Football Club.
This involves two companies entering into a binding partnership with each other, “BIDCO” and “FANCO”, both of which are Special Purpose Vehicles (SPV).
1. The bid was submitted by the Foundation of Hearts’ bid team under the company title BIDCO
2. BIDCO is backed by Edinburgh business who will provide the vast majority of the capital required for the to be proposed Creditors Voluntary Agreement (CVA)
3. This binding partnership between BIDCO and FANCO will deliver ultimate fan ownership over a fixed period of time
4. BIDCO’s purpose is to deliver fan ownership and will therefore not seek to make any personal gain on this agreement with FANCO
At this stage a period of comprehensive due diligence and further negotiations begin. It is important to note that the process is far from complete and is likely to take significant time working to achieve, as identified by BDO. At that point more detail will be released.
Ian Murray MP, chairman, Foundation of Hearts said:
“The bid team working on behalf of the Foundation will set up BIDCO to provide the capital resource to buy the club, backed by Edinburgh business.
“On agreeing contractual terms with BDO to acquire the club, the BIDCO/FANCO partnership will be created to deliver fan ownership in a controlled fashion. Doing so allows the club’s finances to be stabilised, and for there to be an orderly and calm transition to supporter ownership.
“The BIDCO/FANCO partnership delivers multi-layered protection both now and for the future of Hearts. It’s a win-win situation.”

[Cabbage East]

Mikey Forrester? Russian sailors? What the ****** are these boys on.

[Moulin Yarns]

Aye how does that work? You're not allowed to cancel your direct debit if you lose your job?

I imagine it will be along the lines of Fanco commit to paying back the Bidco money as it is a mortgage or bank loan, so if 1 supporter defaults the remaining clowns pay a little bit more. Direct debits rather than standing orders allow for this. What you might end up with is 5,999 supporters defaulting and 1 picking up the whole tab.

#Pleasing indeed

[BarneyK]

And we are not talking 12 months here either are we ?

I guess there's nothing can be done if individual direct debits are cancelled, but still essentially Fanco are bound to paying back the original investment. At the very least they will be duty bound to live within their means for a change.

[Kato]

Bidco + fanco = sevco

[southsider]

I imagine it will be along the lines of Fanco commit to paying back the Bidco money as it is a mortgage or bank loan, so if 1 supporter defaults the remaining clowns pay a little bit more. Direct debits rather than standing orders allow for this. What you might end up with is 5,999 supporters defaulting and 1 picking up the whole tab.

#Pleasing indeed

Please let it be that toss-pot Murray that picks up the whole tab.

[Treadstone]

Please let it be that toss-pot Murray that picks up the whole tab.

i think privately he wants it to go breasts skywards.

[Waxy]

I think yamco will find that bidco willco be chucked in the binco when the Liths laughco their asscos off

[Cabbage East]

I really don't see how this is even remotely feasible.

[GreenCastle]

Bidco Fanco Yamco Fannyco Newco Sevco Skintco Noshameco

Cheerio :bye:

[Alex Trager]

Are they likely to come out of this then?

[GreenCastle]

The way I read this is they can prepare plans all they want but bottom line is what happens in Lithuania that will decide their future.

They are trying to create a positive environment now but it could all come crashing down if Lithuania come down hard on them.

They are still on life support and scraping the barrel for every penny they can get hold of and if Lithuania goes easy on them they still have quite a long way to go with providing sustainable funds for the club - plus the whole mess of the stadium - which is still not fit for purpose and costing a fortune to maintain.

[Liberal Hibby]

Are they likely to come out of this then?

Possibly. If they can raise enough capital to satisfy the Liths and then agree a robust business plan that allows them to pay back the 'Edinburgh businesses' (ie banks) who came up with said capital. You're probably looking at financing cost of around £1+ million a year for 10 years (they aren't going to get free finance) on top of stadium and running costs leaving some coppers and the fluff they've found down the back of the sofa for playing staff...

[lapsedhibee]

I especially liked this in the very last clause:

" ... where BIDCO and FANCO will, once this document has been published, be thereafter referred to as Biddies and Fannies ... "

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Does anyone know if the term 'binding agreement' was part of the dd set up by FoH?

It appears the money being collected now forms part of a binding contract that may change the original pledge a gift proposal. Would they not need to send out a contract to all pledgers?

[CropleyWasGod]

Possibly. If they can raise enough capital to satisfy the Liths and then agree a robust business plan that allows them to pay back the 'Edinburgh businesses' (ie banks) who came up with said capital. You're probably looking at financing cost of around £1+ million a year for 10 years (they aren't going to get free finance) on top of stadium and running costs leaving some coppers and the fluff they've found down the back of the sofa for playing staff...

It's not banks, as I read it.

BIDCO aren't making anything out of it, as the document says.

[Waxy]

Pledgers have probably been easy-osy about pledging up till now.
All for the cause and no pressure to continue once they've won the bid ir when money gets tight.
Well there sure is pressure on the pledgers now.

[Geo_1875]

Bidco (SPV) + Fanco (SPV) = NOGO (SPIV)

[StevieC]

Will this not require around 5,000 Hearts supporters to commit, to an average of £20 a month, for the next 8 years of their lives?

Do you know what .. if they can pull that off, I think they they deserve to get a CVA accepted.

[GreenPJ]

So which Companies/individuals are behind Bidco?

[CropleyWasGod]

Will this not require around 5,000 Hearts supporters to commit, to an average of £20 a month, for the next 8 years of their lives?

Do you know what .. if they can pull that off, I think they they deserve to get a CVA accepted.

That's £9.6m.

I don't think they will need as much as that, but yeah, fair play to them if they do it.


So which Companies/individuals are behind Bidco?

No-one knows for sure.

Ann Budge is the name most quoted, but FOH have been very cagey about who is actually in. That's probably a choice on the funders' part.

[adhibs]

So if this comes off for say 5m and then add in the football debts, debt free hearts will be around 5.5m in debt

[CropleyWasGod]

So if this comes off for say 5m and then add in the football debts, debt free hearts will be around 5.5m in debt

FANCO will be.

And, if it's structured as I think it will be, FANCO won't own Tynie. BIDCO will own that until the debt is repaid.

If not, ie if FANCO own Tynie, it will be held as security by BIDCO.

[Northernhibee]

So all this does is make the process slower and more painful.

Excellent.

[adhibs]

FANCO will be.

And, if it's structured as I think it will be, FANCO won't own Tynie. BIDCO will own that until the debt is repaid.

If not, ie if FANCO own Tynie, it will be held as security by BIDCO.

Could cause them problens down the line then if the direct debits dry up. Hope the liths keep these assets frozen anyway.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

There's still the initial problem of satisfying the Liths with their final and best offer.

How much do people think BIDCO have managed to raise?

My guess £5.5 million

[Waxy]

Ach it's all just a sham to get out of paying 29M debt back.
Pull the plug on them now. Chancers.

[Biggie]

Ach it's all just a sham to get out of paying 29M debt back.
Pull the plug on them now. Chancers.

No, no, no, our resident experts assure us they will not get off lightly.....anyway, I want to know the businesses that are helping bail out these rogues

[GloryGlory]

It's not banks, as I read it.

BIDCO aren't making anything out of it, as the document says.

Yeah, right, but their expenses and "admin fees" will no doubt be quite hefty!

[Thecat23]

It seems to me reading through all this it's went from 99.9% liquidation to they are going to walk away still at Tynnie still in the SPFL, still avoid paying any real debt and they will be pretty much debt free!

But I'm not to clued up so all this I'm thinking may be wrong :D

[MassHibsteria]

Please let it be that toss-pot Murray that picks up the whole tab.


Of all the uncertainties about this soap opera unfolding across the city, I'm as certain as can be (without hard evidence) that Murray won't lose a brass farthing if things go pear shaped. One, he's a politician. Two, like nearly all politicians he talks in unsubstantiated soundbites. Three, Murray is your classic slimy, self-serving, egotistical shyster of a politician who wouldn't understand how business really works if it bit him in the backside.

He has his bad points too.

[Coco Bryce]

It seems to me reading through all this it's went from 99.9% liquidation to they are going to walk away still at Tynnie still in the SPFL, still avoid paying any real debt and they will be pretty much debt free!

But I'm not to clued up so all this I'm thinking may be wrong :D

I'm coming around to thinking the same. The silence regarding their demise from our more ITK posters on the PM board is worrying slightly.

[johnrebus]

If the Liths see all the dosh coming from an outside source, what is to stop them asking for more?

And more?

[Dunderhall]

It's not banks, as I read it.

BIDCO aren't making anything out of it, as the document says.
Would you not expect some % interest rate until the loan is paid off though, surely bidco won't want the same £5m, say, back in 5-6 years as a guess from the pledges.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would you not expect some % interest rate until the loan is paid off though, surely bidco won't want the same £5m, say, back in 5-6 years as a guess from the pledges.

Not according to this:-

4. BIDCO’s purpose is to deliver fan ownership and will therefore not seek to make any personal gain on this agreement with FANCO

At worst, they would charge FANCO the interest that they (BIDCO) are losing out on by not investing it elsewhere.


I'm coming around to thinking the same. The silence regarding their demise from our more ITK posters on the PM board is worrying slightly.

If there is silence, it is because nothing of note has happened recently.

[Liberal Hibby]

It's not banks, as I read it.

BIDCO aren't making anything out of it, as the document says.


Yes you're probably right on the first point - but on the second I can see no way any institution is going to lend them substantial six figure sums for several years interest free. If I could get 2% pa on my million in a bank account - why would I lose £200,000 over ten years. I think there is a difference between 'not making any money' and 'not losing interest'. Murray is spinning a line here.

We agree - just seen your post above

[greenginger]

Of all the uncertainties about this soap opera unfolding across the city, I'm as certain as can be (without hard evidence) that Murray won't lose a brass farthing if things go pear shaped. One, he's a politician. Two, like nearly all politicians he talks in unsubstantiated soundbites. Three, Murray is your classic slimy, self-serving, egotistical shyster of a politician who wouldn't understand how business really works if it bit him in the backside.

He has his bad points too.


A pal of mine says he worked beside Ian Murray at the old Scottish Equitable in St Andrew Sq. before they were bought by Aegon.

Says he was an ignorant, bone-idle shyster, that spent his entire day skiving.

He only got the MP gig by default. Nigel Griffth, the sitting MP got caught sh***ing some bint over the Wool Sack and had to stand down and the chief opposition Lib-Dem got caught with his pants down too IIRC.

Safe to say it will be a single term appearance for little Ian.

[Coco Bryce]

If there is silence, it is because nothing of note has happened recently.

That's good to hear. I want the worst thing possible to happen to them quicker though :greengrin

[Dunderhall]

Not according to this:-4. BIDCO’s purpose is to deliver fan ownership and will therefore not seek to make any personal gain on this agreement with FANCOAt worst, they would charge FANCO the interest that they (BIDCO) are losing out on by not investing it elsewhere.That's my take on it, whilst not profiting as such, you can't expect them to just get the capital amount back which would be an actual loss in real terms. I can't see anyone putting money up front in that scenario.Not that it changes the game in any real way.

[Liberal Hibby]

That's my take on it, whilst not profiting as such, you can't expect them to just get the capital amount back which would be an actual loss in real terms. I can't see anyone putting money up front in that scenario.Not that it changes the game in any real way.

One would also assume that BIDCO would have a board of directors and possibly a small number of staff who would require some sort of remuneration too.

[StevieC]

That's £9.6m.

I don't think they will need as much as that

I was thinking £6m to secure a CVA and purchase Tynecastle.
£1m funding gap for current season.
£1m, over the next couple of years, for the upkeep of a stand that is falling to bits.
... and I'm pretty sure the remaining £1.6m left over wont be long in disappearing.

[joe breezy]

I was thinking £6m to secure a CVA and purchase Tynecastle.
£1m funding gap for current season.
£1m, over the next couple of years, for the upkeep of a stand that is falling to bits.
... and I'm pretty sure the remaining £1.6m left over wont be long in disappearing.

even if the FOH purchase Hearts I'd imagine they would still sell Tynie at some point

[HibbySpurs]

Mikey Forrester? Russian sailors? What the ****** are these boys on.

:faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

I was thinking £6m to secure a CVA and purchase Tynecastle.
£1m funding gap for current season.
£1m, over the next couple of years, for the upkeep of a stand that is falling to bits.
... and I'm pretty sure the remaining £1.6m left over wont be long in disappearing.

Plus the £500k football debt.

Plus a wee bit of interest, as discussed.

Probably not too far out actually.

[bodoglimt]

Had a sly look on brokeback and noticed that FOH at a recent meeting in the borders have stated that discussions are underway with CEC over building a new stand.Impressive given they dont have any money yet. I suppose that this is what being a big team is all about

With this financial genius I reckon FOH may remove the Third World debt by 2016. Once again the yams may be about to save the world:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Plus the £500k football debt.

Plus a wee bit of interest, as discussed.

Probably not too far out actually.

Any guesses at how long they will have to pay back the capital (plus Bidco interest+admin fees+staff costs)? Obviously the shorter the better :greengrin

[StevieC]

Any guesses at how long they will have to pay back the capital (plus Bidco interest+admin fees+staff costs)? Obviously the shorter the better :greengrin

That depends on who is lending the money, how much they are lending, and how many supporters tie themselves in to a legally binding repayment plan.

It is a huge risk for the lenders, because the only security they have is Tynecastle .. and look where that has got UKIO!

If you were "Hearts minded" would you really want to be the one that pulled Tynecastle out from under the support when they started defaulting on their payments?

So it's basically trying to find a number of investors that can collectively come up with over £7-8m, for an unsecured (non-profit) loan, over 8 years, for an untried and untested supporter led venture .. on the back of a failed business venture.
Like I said above, if they can pull this one off then they fully deserve to get their CVA accepted.

[WhileTheChief..]

So it's basically trying to find a number of investors that can collectively come up with over £7-8m, for an unsecured (non-profit) loan, over 8 years, for an untried and untested supporter led venture .. on the back of a failed business venture.
Like I said above, if they can pull this one off then they fully deserve to get their CVA accepted.

My take is that they already have the funding in place from local businesses / wealthy individuals but its not enough to satisfy the Liths yet.

So all they need to do is up their 'investment' to secure the club and presumably Tynie too.

They then get paid back from pledges over a number of years.

Seems like a not too bad plan really.

The only stumbling block could be how much the Liths want but I reckon they can't be too far away from agreement or they would never have gotten as far as preferred bidder status.

Liquidation appears a long way off.

[QMU-1875]

Looks like their safe from liquidation, if they pull this off with the bidco and fanco fair play to them seems a great idea! Perhaps something fans of our own club could do yearly to help build up funds for the club to sign players with, I know I would happily sign up to investing £20 a month for the club to sign players!

[CropleyWasGod]

Looks like their safe from liquidation, if they pull this off with the bidco and fanco fair play to them seems a great idea! Perhaps something fans of our own club could do yearly to help build up funds for the club to sign players with, I know I would happily sign up to investing £20 a month for the club to sign players!

How's that?:cb

[hibbymick]

Looks like their safe from liquidation, if they pull this off with the bidco and fanco fair play to them seems a great idea! Perhaps something fans of our own club could do yearly to help build up funds for the club to sign players with, I know I would happily sign up to investing £20 a month for the club to sign players!

Dont be surprised to see the Tache at your door tonight.:wink:

[lucky]

The interesting thing about this is that fanco only get shares handed over as when they pay back the interest free loan. So no direct debits then no shares. It appears that Bidco are putting £3m upfront but need more people to come on board. I still think this will end in tears. There will be no doubt some big egos in Bidco and not sure the fans will continue with the DD 8 years down the line. Seems easy on paper but not sure they will raise the money in the first place and even less certain that the money will continue after they've been saved

[brog]

My take is that they already have the funding in place from local businesses / wealthy individuals but its not enough to satisfy the Liths yet.

So all they need to do is up their 'investment' to secure the club and presumably Tynie too.

They then get paid back from pledges over a number of years.

Seems like a not too bad plan really.

The only stumbling block could be how much the Liths want but I reckon they can't be too far away from agreement or they would never have gotten as far as preferred bidder status.

Liquidation appears a long way off.

They were effectively the only bidders that's why they got preferred status. They're still a long way from safety & this business plan has more holes than a tramps vest. Keep the faith!

[StevieC]

My take is that they already have the funding in place from local businesses / wealthy individuals but its not enough to satisfy the Liths yet.
So all they need to do is up their 'investment' to secure the club and presumably Tynie too.
They then get paid back from pledges over a number of years.
Seems like a not too bad plan really.

A really good plan .. IF they can get the required level of loans .. IF they can get the required number of supporters pledging the required monthly amounts legally tied in for a long term repayment plan.


The only stumbling block could be how much the Liths want

The UKIO Liths will "want" £6.9m .. they may "accept" slightly less.
The UBIG Liths will want something for the shares.
The football authorities will want £500k


but I reckon they can't be too far away from agreement or they would never have gotten as far as preferred bidder status.

I'm not convinced that this is the case. They were the only (credible) show in town, and BDO really had to put somebody forward as "prefered bidder" to be seen to be at least trying to save the club.


Liquidation appears a long way off.

I don't think Christmas is that far off. I've already started thinking about what to get the kids. :wink:

[Sanger]

ThAt is the crux of the deal? Reckon it will be short of what the Liths are looking for which means liquidation. How much would you put up on an unsecured basis to be paid back by football fans via direct debit!

[Gus Fring]

I've been speaking to my source and heres a few tidbits that might answer a few questions that have been raised:

There's been no movement from UKIO on whether the bid is acceptable yet and "deafening silence" on the UBIG share front.

On the "BIDCO" front as I've mentioned before the money is from several individuals and companies but it's unlikely these will be made public as the FOH were adamant about them being the front. They don't want anyone getting public attention (positive or negative) as a result.

Ian Murray is just the "face" of FOH. He doesn't have any responsibilities to the bid financially. He remains "independent".

Fans are continually asking for something in return for their pledges such as shares, match tickets, discounts etc. The FOH are unable to provide anything in exchange because then VAT comes into play. These are still donations.

There is nothing in the works about Hearts doing something with the council. Losing Tynecastle is an "unthinkable scenario" for FOH.

[joe breezy]

How's that?:cb

Because it says so in the Scottish media, same media that said Rangers Football Club would never go into liquidation. Internet bampots.

[greenginger]

http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/sprendimas-del-skotijos-hearts-klubo-pardavimo-bus-priimtas-si-menesi-24-362178&usg=ALkJrhi5yeV08qMsuDmNNE8YPIeiOSekgQ


Hot off the Lith press. Decision on Hearts by end of August according to Ukio Bankas Admin.

Also he does not think the FoH offer is the best for Ukio creditors ! :thumbsup:

[YehButNoBut]

This will put you off your tea tonight but this interview today by Murray explains how their bid will work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywzwDFXxW8M&feature=youtu.be

[joe breezy]

ThAt is the crux of the deal? Reckon it will be short of what the Liths are looking for which means liquidation. How much would you put up on an unsecured basis to be paid back by football fans via direct debit!

"The average sum borrowed by a customer using Wonga.com for the first time is £180."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263659/Wonga-warns-ready-use-debt-collectors-chase-customers-fail-pay-out.html#ixzz2cQQAx7JL

[Zondervan]

Wonder when the Evening News will give Hibs some free/ cheap advertising, perhaps for our charitable foundation, or the Leith Links initiative?

@The_FoH: Just had more good news. In support of #FOH @edinburghpaper plans to run ANOTHER full page advert in tomorrow's sports section. Magnificent!

[CropleyWasGod]

This will put you off your tea tonight but this interview today by Murray explains how their bid will work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywzwDFXxW8M&feature=youtu.be

2 things come out of that for me.

1. he said, late on in the piece, that it will be BIDCO who are negotiating with UKIO. That means that the fans, the pledgers, have little say in the process.

2. at no point did he clarify who is going to own Tynecastle. He consistently talked about "the club" being (eventually) in the hands of the fans, but didn't say if or when Tynie would be.

[Dunderhall]

I've been speaking to my source and heres a few tidbits that might answer a few questions that have been raised:

Ian Murray is just the "face" of FOH. He doesn't have any responsibilities to the bid financially. He remains "independent".


The latest appointment report issued for FoH has IM as an appointed director from May '13.

[#FromTheCapital]

http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/sprendimas-del-skotijos-hearts-klubo-pardavimo-bus-priimtas-si-menesi-24-362178&usg=ALkJrhi5yeV08qMsuDmNNE8YPIeiOSekgQ


Hot off the Lith press. Decision on Hearts by end of August according to Ukio Bankas Admin.

Also he does not think the FoH offer is the best for Ukio creditors ! :thumbsup:


An implosion of the bank, which is the largest Scottish football club Hearts FC creditors, the insolvency administrator Amber Adomonis promises that a decision on the sale of the club should be adopted as early as August.

"The decision should be taken during the month of August. We strive to find the best option that is acceptable to the bank creditors of Economy and possible favorable club "- BNS G.Adomonis.According to him, negotiations are ongoing with two potential investors, one of them - the club's fans in the joint proposal. Hearts Club last week issued a statement saying that the club's administrators assessment Hearts football club supporters uniting Association Foundation of Hearts "proposal" would be acceptable. "However G.Adomonis BNS unable to confirm this: "It's certainly not claim that this is the best offer."In late July, Economy Bank mandated BDO `s administration of the company to continue to negotiate with two potential buyers of the club, in order to improve the financial proposals. Then announced that, if the negotiations are unsuccessful, Farm Bank will initiate liquidation proceedings for the club, and he will try to sell the mortgaged Tynecastle stadium as a separate asset, rather than with a Hearts football club.AFP data, negotiations continue with the Heats football club supporters uniting Association Foundation of Hearts "and the company" Five Stars Football.An Bank has pledged 29.9 percent. Hearts of Midlothian shares of the Bank is the largest creditor of the company.UK public broadcaster the BBC announced that Hearts of Economy Bank was owed 15 million. pounds (60 million. respectively), while controlling the club pack (81 percent). managing and also the failing bank An investment group - 10 million. pounds (40 million. respectively).In Hearts' shares peaking Economy shareholder Vladimir Romanov began investing in 2004, and later that year took over the controlling package.


Skaitykite daugiau: http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/sprendimas-del-skotijos-hearts-klubo-pardavimo-bus-priimtas-si-menesi-24-362178#ixzz2cQXuzRQl

[Gus Fring]

The latest appointment report issued for FoH has IM as an appointed director from May '13.

I believe that's accurate but I was pointing out that he's not put any of his own money in to the bids. The word independent was in inverted comments because I think it's clear to every one he is anything but

[Dashing Bob S]

An implosion of the bank, which is the largest Scottish football club Hearts FC creditors, the insolvency administrator Amber Adomonis promises that a decision on the sale of the club should be adopted as early as August.

"The decision should be taken during the month of August. We strive to find the best option that is acceptable to the bank creditors of Economy and possible favorable club "- BNS G.Adomonis.According to him, negotiations are ongoing with two potential investors, one of them - the club's fans in the joint proposal. Hearts Club last week issued a statement saying that the club's administrators assessment Hearts football club supporters uniting Association Foundation of Hearts "proposal" would be acceptable. "However G.Adomonis BNS unable to confirm this: "It's certainly not claim that this is the best offer."In late July, Economy Bank mandated BDO `s administration of the company to continue to negotiate with two potential buyers of the club, in order to improve the financial proposals. Then announced that, if the negotiations are unsuccessful, Farm Bank will initiate liquidation proceedings for the club, and he will try to sell the mortgaged Tynecastle stadium as a separate asset, rather than with a Hearts football club.AFP data, negotiations continue with the Heats football club supporters uniting Association Foundation of Hearts "and the company" Five Stars Football.An Bank has pledged 29.9 percent. Hearts of Midlothian shares of the Bank is the largest creditor of the company.UK public broadcaster the BBC announced that Hearts of Economy Bank was owed 15 million. pounds (60 million. respectively), while controlling the club pack (81 percent). managing and also the failing bank An investment group - 10 million. pounds (40 million. respectively).In Hearts' shares peaking Economy shareholder Vladimir Romanov began investing in 2004, and later that year took over the controlling package.


Skaitykite daugiau: http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/sprendimas-del-skotijos-hearts-klubo-pardavimo-bus-priimtas-si-menesi-24-362178#ixzz2cQXuzRQl

At least they got one thing right....

[KdyHby]

I would happily sign up to investing £20 a month for the club to sign players!

http://leithlinks4kids.com/

https://www.facebook.com/LeithLinks4Kids

[StevieC]

This will put you off your tea tonight but this interview today by Murray explains how their bid will work.

Let me summarise it for those unable to view it ..

IM: we've been given preferred bidder status which allows us to move forward as the sole bidder ..
(Err.. naw it disnae .. "preferred" and "sole" are not quite the same)

Q: It's important to highlight how the Bidco group and Fanco group can work in tandem to deliver a fan owned football club?

IM: Absolutely (but I've no idea) .. there are many ways to buy a football club .. (flannel, flannel) .. someone could buy the stadium and rent it back .. but that's not what we will be doing .. (flannel, flannel) .. so this is the best way of taking it forward (although I've still not told you how we're doing it) .. (flannel,flannel) .. financial stability .. (flannel, flannel) .. new dawn ..

Q: Bidco are members of the business community .. can you go into more detail ..

IM: .. Hearts fans .. no personal gain .. paid for by pledges .. gives fans comfort that people behind bid are "one of them" ..

Q: For your Hearts supporter in the street .. how do you explain the process to them ..

IM: An administration process is incredibly complicated .. (flannel, flannel) .. one party in the process (UBIG) is in a little bit of trouble .. (flannel, flannel) .. completely difficult situation .. (flannel, flannel) .. a little bit of patience .. (flannel, flannel) .. financially stable .. (flannel, flannel) .. bright future ..

Q: What part can fans play ..

IM: .. phenomenal support .. (flannel, flannel) .. over 6,700 pledges .. (flannel, flannel) .. straightforward formula .. give us more money .. (flannel, flannel) .. bright future .. (flannel, flannel) .. where we should be in Scottish football ..
(so in summary .. more pledges please)

Q: Have BDO intimated a price to buy the club ..

IM: That's a question for BDO .. (err .. naw .. it's a question to you .. have they told you how much?) .. (flannel, flannel) .. we will only bid a) what we can afford, b) what is realistic and c) what makes sure the future is secured .. (so potentially 3 different figures then???) .. and we can't do a penny more .. (flannel, flannel) .. moving forward in due course ..
(do we assume they haven't given a price, or the price given is currently too high???)

Q: In terms of timeline, what can we expect to happen next ..

IM: .. having discussions .. (flannel, flannel) .. please sign up for those direct debits .. (flannel, flannel) .. future very bright .. (flannel, flannel) .. if you can afford to sign up, to own this football club, do so as quickly as they possibly can ..
(so nothing happening anytime soon then?)


Talk about dodging the questions that matter .. :rolleyes:

[Waxy]

This could all go through.
And by the end of the year all Lithuanian prisoners could all be released from Scottish jails(if there is any)

[rossc]

I've been speaking to my source and heres a few tidbits that might answer a few questions that have been raised:

There's been no movement from UKIO on whether the bid is acceptable yet and "deafening silence" on the UBIG share front.

On the "BIDCO" front as I've mentioned before the money is from several individuals and companies but it's unlikely these will be made public as the FOH were adamant about them being the front. They don't want anyone getting public attention (positive or negative) as a result.

Ian Murray is just the "face" of FOH. He doesn't have any responsibilities to the bid financially. He remains "independent".

Fans are continually asking for something in return for their pledges such as shares, match tickets, discounts etc. The FOH are unable to provide anything in exchange because then VAT comes into play. These are still donations.

There is nothing in the works about Hearts doing something with the council. Losing Tynecastle is an "unthinkable scenario" for FOH.



and he borrowed his face from les dawson

[Alan62]

If they can pull it off, good luck to them.

Clearly the level of capital that those behind Bidco are willing to risk is crucial to the whole success of the venture. Their major risk is that the direct debits fall away. However, assuming that they are benevolent investors who are fans themselves, then this could be a brilliant way to transfer the club into real fan ownership. And a great way to dump millions of pounds worth of debt while somehow managing to make the whole thing look worthy.

Genius if they crack this one. Depends totally on whether the headline bid is enough to satisfy the Lithuanians. From an ongoing resourcing point of view, however, things will be tight as all the money to repay the debt and for working capital is essentially coming from the same punters - maybe a hard core of around 10,000 folks. They're not the richest people on the planet either but obviously better off than us Hobo peg sellers. 5-1, 1902, etc...

[weecounty hibby]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them

[bingo70]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them

I agree

[Kato]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them


Correct. A lot of Yamspeak if you ask me.

[Coco Bryce]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them

This.

[portycabbage]

Bidco Fanco Yamco Fannyco Newco Sevco Skintco Noshameco

Cheerio :bye:

Tesco.

[macca70]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them

Spot On.

I think a wee reminder needs to go out every now and then as to why the are up this creek without any paddles.

We have been telling them for years that there outgoings were unsustainable and only going to end in tears.

But we were fobbed off as Bitter Hobo's. how could they possibly go bust when they owe the money to themselves?!

[MADE IN LEITH]

Whats all this "if they pull it off good luck to them" p1sh!?!? They are a shower of thieving, cheating, lying, ****bags, total filth from top to bottom as a club. **** them and i hope they get what they deserve and that is liquidation and years struggling to compete. I hope these comments coming from Hibbies is not a sign of a softening of attitudes towards them

No argument from me on this, I can't stand them and hope they get what the so rightly deserve. They do not deserve to be in the Scottish game never mind Division 1. They have not only brought the game into disrepute but they have also made a laughing stock of the Scottish game and thrown it further into the doldrums.

I know I won't loose any sleep if they never grace a football pitch ever again.

Clubs like that mob we can do without.

Adios, ciao goodbye, auf wiedersehen and good riddance to bad rubbish.

GGTTH