Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Caversham Green]

These people know the score. I'm sure they're all celebrating at the news of a potential CVA.


Never let them forget.

Given that the vast majority of the debt was owed to Ukio and UBIG, with UBIG abstaining and the CVA being passed by 87%, virtually all of those creditors must have voted against the CVA - i.e. voted to close HMFC down.

And that includes the charity run by David Southern that should never have been a creditor to start with. Not a lot of goodwill there.

[Ozyhibby]

With the Yams now paying BDO's fees I suppose they can now run an administration as long as they need to until the shares are unfrozen.
Obviously if it goes on as long as July then they will have another 15 point deduction (did the auto relegation rule ever get passed?) and also the possibility of not having enough players to start the season as they have a few players out of contract.

[shagpile]

Maybe not, if you read today's " Cancel Christmas " plea from Jackson in the morning papers!

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/445935/Christmas-cancelled-for-Hearts-fans


That interview is anything but positive. Of course Murray is chuffed, but then he would be, he is an MP & sees nothing in the negative. I think Jackson knows what the score is going to be. 4 months before the game is played.
Hearts are going to need money, more money & a great deal of luck to survive this.

[Greenworld]

could be right there,thing is going by how the voting went regarding what we thought or hoped the outcome would be to the severity of the punishment that they would get for there cheating,lies,theft and just being pond life,we can only hope that there is a god and they get whats due.
having followed this from the start and read every comment and view ,i think the diddies will drop over the next few months as they already (fans) think they will have the nose and a few others there plying there trade at swynie in the next couple of months and when that doesnt happen,the cold days n nights are here,xmas,and their thin squad picks up injuries and suspensions ,i can see them having to sell some player as well,things will be torid for a bit there,and you dont enjoy going to games when your team is not winning games.
time will tell but im hoping there will be a few more twists in this before the season is out and think we should start a save Killie fund till May time,i would happily pay £20/£30 per month if it ment Killie avoided admin till the end of the season and Hearts go down.

I suggest we start a fund for TB if you have spare cash give it to hibs its time to forget about othrr clubs and concentrate on hibs.....imagine the boost Terry Butcher would get from a new fighting fund to get new players how much could be raised is this not the best way to improve over hearts or whoever help fund better players ...

[jonny]

It's not definite that they'll go down. They could make points up on Killie. Even if they don't make up the full points, there's a very high chance that Kilmarnock will go into admin themselves this season.

Killie received a £1million injection in the summer from an investor. They won't go into administration this season. Come January the yams will have another sale to reduce costs. They're as good as relegated pal.

[Jack]

As did I at first but the more I watch it the more it seems like a nervous laugh. It's definitely in context with the more serious claims of needing more money soon. It's a joke in poor taste IMO.

How many times have you watched it???????

Come on Baji, its not that important at 11 o'clock on a Friday night!!!? ;-)

[Greenworld]

could be right there,thing is going by how the voting went regarding what we thought or hoped the outcome would be to the severity of the punishment that they would get for there cheating,lies,theft and just being pond life,we can only hope that there is a god and they get whats due.
having followed this from the start and read every comment and view ,i think the diddies will drop over the next few months as they already (fans) think they will have the nose and a few others there plying there trade at swynie in the next couple of months and when that doesnt happen,the cold days n nights are here,xmas,and their thin squad picks up injuries and suspensions ,i can see them having to sell some player as well,things will be torid for a bit there,and you dont enjoy going to games when your team is not winning games.
time will tell but im hoping there will be a few more twists in this before the season is out and think we should start a save Killie fund till May time,i would happily pay £20/£30 per month if it ment Killie avoided admin till the end of the season and Hearts go down.

I suggest we start a fund for TB if you have spare cash give it to hibs its time to forget about othrr clubs and concentrate on hibs.....imagine the boost Terry Butcher would get from a new fighting fund to get new players how much could be raised is this not the best way to improve over hearts or whoever help fund better players ...

[greenginger]

Given that the vast majority of the debt was owed to Ukio and UBIG, with UBIG abstaining and the CVA being passed by 87%, virtually all of those creditors must have voted against the CVA - i.e. voted to close HMFC down.

And that includes the charity run by David Southern that should never have been a creditor to start with. Not a lot of goodwill there.

Does the information BDO publish on the Vote give any indication of who voted for and against ?

Or, am I going to have to do a FOI. request to find out which way our Council voted with our money due by HOMFC. :greengrin

[Baker9]

I used to work with BJ, albeit many years go. I also got the feeling that he was nervous and, no, he doesn't strike me as the nervous type.

He hinted that the UBIG shares are a stumbling block. IMO, the reason he doesn't say that their freezing might scupper the whole deal is PR.

It needs someone in the media to ask the question directly. :rolleyes:

He seems like a decent guy. I don't thing he was nervous I think he was thoroughly embarrassed by his situation. Wearing a Heart's tie, his conscience made him tell the Hearts fans outright that they are actually giving any future money to him to pay his fees. I have watched it again and I think he is squirming with embarrassment.

[Onceinawhile]

This thread is getting ridiculous now.

Thankfully I've figured out a way to tell whose talking nonsense. Anyone saying they are itk or have a source - talking nonsense.

Where does this leave certain posters who even last week were telling us their top level source said no chance of a cva?

People need to suck it up and move on instead of coming up with more zany reasons as to why they are doomed.

should point out this isn't including cwg who has done a good job, but imo didn't factor in the football club coefficient to hia calcultions.

[steakbake]

Does the information BDO publish on the Vote give any indication of who voted for and against ?

Or, am I going to have to do a FOI. request to find out which way our Council voted with our money due by HOMFC. :greengrin

Where is Sidney these days?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Where is Sidney these days?


maybe suffocated under a mountain of mail

[rcarter1]

This thread is getting ridiculous now.

Thankfully I've figured out a way to tell whose talking nonsense. Anyone saying they are itk or have a source - talking nonsense.

Where does this leave certain posters who even last week were telling us their top level source said no chance of a cva?

People need to suck it up and move on instead of coming up with more zany reasons as to why they are doomed.

should point out this isn't including cwg who has done a good job, but imo didn't factor in the football club coefficient to hia calcultions.

This Im afraid. There's been a lot of bold assertions and 'I can categorically say XXX will happen', and as often as not its bunkum - or only partly true. I particularly agree that the fact its a football club makes a massive difference, if for no other reason than any alternative buyer of the land would be concerned that whatever they built instead might get vandalised/burned down by an irate mob.

If this all leads to Hearts surviving, having side stepped millions of debt, it makes my conversation with Jambos really easy.

4-0, 5-1 and virtually any scoreline in the last 10 (20?) years, means hee haw to me, because they basically robbed a country to achieve it. Clean slates all round, and looking forward to another 20 years of rivalry on a level playing field.

[leggeto]

This Im afraid. There's been a lot of bold assertions and 'I can categorically say XXX will happen', and as often as not its bunkum - or only partly true. I particularly agree that the fact its a football club makes a massive difference, if for no other reason than any alternative buyer of the land would be concerned that whatever they built instead might get vandalised/burned down by an irate mob.

If this all leads to Hearts surviving, having side stepped millions of debt, it makes my conversation with Jambos really easy.

4-0, 5-1 and virtually any scoreline in the last 10 (20?) years, means hee haw to me, because they basically robbed a country to achieve it. Clean slates all round, and looking forward to another 20 years of rivalry on a level playing field.

that is pretty much they way its going to be

[SurferRosa]

Where is Sidney these days?

Had his wee bit fun then scuttled back to 'sickbag' probably.

[Eyrie]

I suggest we start a fund for TB if you have spare cash give it to hibs its time to forget about othrr clubs and concentrate on hibs.....imagine the boost Terry Butcher would get from a new fighting fund to get new players how much could be raised is this not the best way to improve over hearts or whoever help fund better players ...

Have you heard about Leith Links (http://leithlinks4kids.com/)? Raises money for the club and helps kids to attend games.

[Kaiser1962]

Given that the vast majority of the debt was owed to Ukio and UBIG, with UBIG abstaining and the CVA being passed by 87%, virtually all of those creditors must have voted against the CVA - i.e. voted to close HMFC down.

And that includes the charity run by David Southern that should never have been a creditor to start with. Not a lot of goodwill there.

We may need to know who all voted. If you exclude the UBIG debt then UKIO makes up over 76% of whats left. I am sure Milsson are a Vlad company and that Ensco 165 (also a LT company) are now dissolved. If you exclude these three companies debts then UKIO now carry 85% on their own.

I would suspect that a large number of smaller creditors would not have wasted their time even responding as the propaganda machine has been telling all and sundry that they would get 0p and should be thankful for that.

Another thing that I think is worth noting is the obvious discrepancies between the valuations of the land and what someone is apparently willing to pay. At Ibrox the properties had a book value of well over £100m prior to administration and was sold for £1.5m to be subsequently re valued weeks later at £40m. Hearts have Tynecastle on the books at around £14m (I know this is rebuild etc) and it looks like this will be sold for around £1m when the whole deal is broken down with players contracts, brand etc. Reports suggest the property was indepently valued recently around £5.5m.

As something is really only worth what someone else will pay the examples would suggest that there is something seriously amiss between the process used by the valuer or the sales procedures of the seller. As this does not seem to happen, certainly nowhere near as extreme, in everyday property deals then is there something else worth looking at?

[lapsedhibee]

As something is really only worth what someone else will pay the examples would suggest that there is something seriously amiss between the process used by the valuer or the sales procedures of the seller. As this does not seem to happen, certainly nowhere near as extreme, in everyday property deals then is there something else worth looking at?

Not sure it needs looking at really. As was abundantly obvious during the the Huns fiasco, the governance of Scottish fitba is corrupt.

Unless you are perhaps suggesting that Scottish insolvency practitioners might also be suspect? :dunno:

[Bostonhibby]

Where is Sidney these days?

Now that the seasons started he has been very busy training and putting a team on the pitch at tiny.

[Kaiser1962]

Not sure it needs looking at really. As was abundantly obvious during the the Huns fiasco, the governance of Scottish fitba is corrupt.

Unless you are perhaps suggesting that Scottish insolvency practitioners might also be suspect? :dunno:


Merely pointing out the discrepancy between valuation price as opposed to market price achieved. What is interesting about the Oldhun scenario is that the properties were revalued at over 25 times their sale price within weeks of the sale going through, having achieved slightly over 1% of the value placed on them by the previous company at sale.

[cwilliamson85]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/445935/Christmas-cancelled-for-Hearts-fans

Someone better call Bob Geldof and get him to re-release "do they know it's Christmas" with all proceeds going to Hearts.

Imagine the conversation on Christmas morning with your son / daughter. Sorry there is no presents this year due to all our spare income going towards players and staff who are earning more than us and are not putting any of their own wages back into the club. It's ok though as we won 1-5 and Rudi might be coming back. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[lapsedhibee]

Merely pointing out the discrepancy between valuation price as opposed to market price achieved. What is interesting about the Oldhun scenario is that the properties were revalued at over 25 times their sale price within weeks of the sale going through, having achieved slightly over 1% of the value placed on them by the previous company at sale.

A cynic writes:
A few of us have waited, so far in vain, for Duff & Duffer's role to be the subject of proper scrutiny by the authorities. I don't suppose it's in the interests of the accounting professions to point out that some of their number habitually play fast and loose with principles of honesty, integrity, etc.

[Weststandwanab]

This Im afraid. There's been a lot of bold assertions and 'I can categorically say XXX will happen', and as often as not its bunkum - or only partly true. I particularly agree that the fact its a football club makes a massive difference, if for no other reason than any alternative buyer of the land would be concerned that whatever they built instead might get vandalised/burned down by an irate mob.

If this all leads to Hearts surviving, having side stepped millions of debt, it makes my conversation with Jambos really easy.

4-0, 5-1 and virtually any scoreline in the last 10 (20?) years, means hee haw to me, because they basically robbed a country to achieve it. Clean slates all round, and looking forward to another 20 years of rivalry on a level playing field.Me too.


Not sure it needs looking at really. As was abundantly obvious during the the Huns fiasco, the governance of Scottish fitba is corrupt.

Unless you are perhaps suggesting that Scottish insolvency practitioners might also be suspect? :dunno:Careful with that sort of statement.


Merely pointing out the discrepancy between valuation price as opposed to market price achieved. What is interesting about the Oldhun scenario is that the properties were revalued at over 25 times their sale price within weeks of the sale going through, having achieved slightly over 1% of the value placed on them by the previous company at sale. It was not a valuation it was merely a bit of creative accountancy to bolster the balance sheet to compensate (on paper) for the on going losses incurred.

[lapsedhibee]

It was not a valuation it was merely a bit of creative accountancy to bolster the balance sheet to compensate (on paper) for the on going losses incurred.

'nuff said. Paraphrasing, creative accounting is perfectly acceptable practice.

[Gus Fring]

If people are going to ignore those of us in the know then that's just fine. But I assume they'll stop reading this thread and the newspapers and other media as well because up to today not a single outlet has managed 100% accuracy in their reporting.

I trust my source and the people on this board a lot more than I trust the likes of Brian Mclauchlin and Barry Anderson.

[TowerHibs]

I have experience in working with businesses who going down the swanny, Hearts could come out of all this debt free tomorrow and would still be completely struggling for years. Baring a miracle (or Killie admin) they will be relagated this year and will struggle in a very competitive league, that stadium takes up a hell of a lot of cash just to keep it open and they have a core support that wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league. All this will put stresses on whoever picks up this mess and may cause them to spiral into another admin.

What should be our mentality is, yes Hearts will survive this. Hibs and the clubs fans must make it our duty, to absolutely destroy this team on the park. This will kill them more than any financial situation.Huge opportuntiy for us to do this in the next 5/10 years

[lapsedhibee]

I trust my source and the people on this board a lot more than I trust the likes of Brian Mclauchlin and Barry Anderson.

And I trust your source more than Brian McLauchlin, Barry Anderson and Bryan Jackson. (Assuming your source isn't Bryan Jackson.)

[brog]

A few associated thoughts from the BJ interview. I thought he was almost relieved by the end in that he had started to tell it like it is at last. Key points for me were; a) its not over, b) its not over etc!!
Seriously there were 3 major negatives for Yams
1. Will be in Admin until at least March/April
2. Prospect of signing anyone is laughable
3. May have to get the begging bowl out again.

The thing that really intrigued me though was his hope that UBIG would hand over the shares because essentially they're worthless!!! Well they're anything but! If UBIG don't sell them to F of H the ba's burst! Therefore for Yams to avoid liquidation they have to make it worthwhile to UBIG to sell, I don't think F of H saying thanks will suffice!
Finally, Sergey & others don't need defending but for those piling in to criticise these guys who did their best to keep us informed, remember BJ stated " the situation is extremely fluent (sic)". Its quite possible that a week or so ago UBIG were going to oppose the CVA & were persuaded instead to abstain for now. That decision actually gives all the leverage now to UBIG.
To repeat, its not over!

[hibs0666]

This thread is getting ridiculous now.

Thankfully I've figured out a way to tell whose talking nonsense. Anyone saying they are itk or have a source - talking nonsense.

Where does this leave certain posters who even last week were telling us their top level source said no chance of a cva?

People need to suck it up and move on instead of coming up with more zany reasons as to why they are doomed.

should point out this isn't including cwg who has done a good job, but imo didn't factor in the football club coefficient to hia calcultions.

There is no CVA agreed. I'm not sure what your beef is to be honest, or why you feel the need to have a pop.

[leggeto]

A few associated thoughts from the BJ interview. I thought he was almost relieved by the end in that he had started to tell it like it is at last. Key points for me were; a) its not over, b) its not over etc!!
Seriously there were 3 major negatives for Yams
1. Will be in Admin until at least March/April
2. Prospect of signing anyone is laughable
3. May have to get the begging bowl out again.

The thing that really intrigued me though was his hope that UBIG would hand over the shares because essentially they're worthless!!! Well they're anything but! If UBIG don't sell them to F of H the ba's burst! Therefore for Yams to avoid liquidation they have to make it worthwhile to UBIG to sell, I don't think F of H saying thanks will suffice!
Finally, Sergey & others don't need defending but for those piling in to criticise these guys who did their best to keep us informed, remember BJ stated " the situation is extremely fluent (sic)". Its quite possible that a week or so ago UBIG were going to oppose the CVA & were persuaded instead to abstain for now. That decision actually gives all the leverage now to UBIG.
To repeat, its not over!

tick tock tick tock

[KdyHby]

Have you heard about Leith Links (http://leithlinks4kids.com/)? Raises money for the club and helps kids to attend games.

Agreed! Repeatably people suggest such a fund on the Hibs forums. When it's highlighted that there is one that benefits both Hibs and children (hopefully next generation Hibs fans), there does not appear to be a significant upturn in contributions to LL. :applause:to FranckSuzy for setting up the fund, and ensuring that it's well publicised and is growing!

[jacomo]

Season Tickets will be on sale in February, that'll get them through to the end of the season.

Possibly. But that will simply mean that they will run out of cash the following season too. Do they then start selling season tickets for 2015/16 next Christmas?

[Dashing Bob S]

This thread is getting ridiculous now.

Thankfully I've figured out a way to tell whose talking nonsense. Anyone saying they are itk or have a source - talking nonsense.

Where does this leave certain posters who even last week were telling us their top level source said no chance of a cva?

People need to suck it up and move on instead of coming up with more zany reasons as to why they are doomed.

should point out this isn't including cwg who has done a good job, but imo didn't factor in the football club coefficient to hia calcultions.

People like yourself have been just as at fault by continually touting a fantasy best case scenario for Hearts at every turn. If some of the more outlandish posts were to be believed, they would be preparing for a champions league campaign next season. I don't doubt the integrity of Bajilions or Sergey and their sources. They have shared information they have received, that's all, and generally not confused their own speculations with this. If this thread is so ridiculous to you, I suggest you leave it and rely on the likes of McLaughlin, Anderson and FOH spokespersons, for your info on this matter.

[CropleyWasGod]

This thread is getting ridiculous now.

Thankfully I've figured out a way to tell whose talking nonsense. Anyone saying they are itk or have a source - talking nonsense.

Where does this leave certain posters who even last week were telling us their top level source said no chance of a cva?

People need to suck it up and move on instead of coming up with more zany reasons as to why they are doomed.

should point out this isn't including cwg who has done a good job, but imo didn't factor in the football club coefficient to hia calcultions.

What calculations were these? And what is the "football club coefficient"?

[Mikey]

People like yourself have been just as at fault by continually touting a fantasy best case scenario for Hearts at every turn. If some of the more outlandish posts were to be believed, they would be preparing for a champions league campaign next season. I don't doubt the integrity of Bajilions or Sergey and their sources. They have shared information they have received, that's all, and generally not confused their own speculations with this. If this thread is so ridiculous to you, I suggest you leave it and rely on the likes of McLaughlin, Anderson and FOH spokespersons, for your info on this matter.

There's no point arguing with the folk who repeatedly tell themselves that Santa won't be coming this year, so they're happy when all they get is a satsuma :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

The thing that really intrigued me though was his hope that UBIG would hand over the shares because essentially they're worthless!!! Well they're anything but! If UBIG don't sell them to F of H the ba's burst!

Jackson must have known this as he spoke. How does he think it's acceptable to stand in front of a camera and suggest otherwise? Why is there no Vince Lunny-equivalent having a word in his ear? Where is the dividing line between spinning and lying and has he crossed it?

[Dashing Bob S]

Season Tickets will be on sale in February, that'll get them through to the end of the season.

I'm not sure what the take-up will be then. FOH are still asking for cash, if it's likely that they don't know whether they will be buying for the premiership or championship, people might be inclined to hold off. If they don't, and Hearts rely on this cash, they could be in huge problems next season.

[Weststandwanab]

'nuff said. Paraphrasing, creative accounting is perfectly acceptable practice. May not be acceptable but is permitted under Company Law. It only states . On paper it has an inflated value try selling it for that.


I have experience in working with businesses who going down the swanny, Hearts could come out of all this debt free tomorrow and would still be completely struggling for years. Baring a miracle (or Killie admin) they will be relagated this year and will struggle in a very competitive league, that stadium takes up a hell of a lot of cash just to keep it open and they have a core support that wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league. All this will put stresses on whoever picks up this mess and may cause them to spiral into another admin.

What should be our mentality is, yes Hearts will survive this. Hibs and the clubs fans must make it our duty, to absolutely destroy this team on the park. This will kill them more than any financial situation.Huge opportuntiy for us to do this in the next 5/10 yearsSpot on.


A few associated thoughts from the BJ interview. I thought he was almost relieved by the end in that he had started to tell it like it is at last. Key points for me were; a) its not over, b) its not over etc!!
Seriously there were 3 major negatives for Yams
1. Will be in Admin until at least March/April
2. Prospect of signing anyone is laughable
3. May have to get the begging bowl out again.

The thing that really intrigued me though was his hope that UBIG would hand over the shares because essentially they're worthless!!! Well they're anything but! If UBIG don't sell them to F of H the ba's burst! Therefore for Yams to avoid liquidation they have to make it worthwhile to UBIG to sell, I don't think F of H saying thanks will suffice!
Finally, Sergey & others don't need defending but for those piling in to criticise these guys who did their best to keep us informed, remember BJ stated " the situation is extremely fluent (sic)". Its quite possible that a week or so ago UBIG were going to oppose the CVA & were persuaded instead to abstain for now. That decision actually gives all the leverage now to UBIG.
To repeat, its not over! The end game has only just started.


Possibly. But that will simply mean that they will run out of cash the following season too. Do they then start selling season tickets for 2015/16 next Christmas?
Only if they still exist next Christmas !

[Treadstone]

If people are going to ignore those of us in the know then that's just fine. But I assume they'll stop reading this thread and the newspapers and other media as well because up to today not a single outlet has managed 100% accuracy in their reporting.


:agree:

I lost count the number of times they could not even get the points deduction right. That was just simple arithmetic if they had consulted the readily available resource, which they did not.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Just read the EEN, what a load of guff they print in this paper about what's going on, I simply refuse to believe that no one in the media doesn't know the full story of their lying and cheating, beggars belief at times just how naive they really are, and as for the maroon morons saying that Ian Murray is a "saviour" well OK if you say so then.

They just don't get it do they?, the arrogance is breathtaking at times.

Tick Tock....

[Mellow Hibee]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Treadstone]

:top marks
So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Caversham Green]

We may need to know who all voted. If you exclude the UBIG debt then UKIO makes up over 76% of whats left. I am sure Milsson are a Vlad company and that Ensco 165 (also a LT company) are now dissolved. If you exclude these three companies debts then UKIO now carry 85% on their own.

I would suspect that a large number of smaller creditors would not have wasted their time even responding as the propaganda machine has been telling all and sundry that they would get 0p and should be thankful for that.

Another thing that I think is worth noting is the obvious discrepancies between the valuations of the land and what someone is apparently willing to pay. At Ibrox the properties had a book value of well over £100m prior to administration and was sold for £1.5m to be subsequently re valued weeks later at £40m. Hearts have Tynecastle on the books at around £14m (I know this is rebuild etc) and it looks like this will be sold for around £1m when the whole deal is broken down with players contracts, brand etc. Reports suggest the property was indepently valued recently around £5.5m.

As something is really only worth what someone else will pay the examples would suggest that there is something seriously amiss between the process used by the valuer or the sales procedures of the seller. As this does not seem to happen, certainly nowhere near as extreme, in everyday property deals then is there something else worth looking at?

There's some misconception about the various property valuations - which you recognise in this post. The value in the balance sheet (£14m in the PBS's case) represents the value of the property to the business - i.e. how much it would cost from scratch to acquire and develop to its current state of disrepair. It bears no direct relationship to it's current market value, but the valuation is done by an independent surveyor so if the value is overstated the fault lies with the surveyor - that's best accounting practice, not creative accounting. The valuation that FoH had was presumably market value - i.e. what the property could reasonably be expected to fetch in its present condition. Since there's very little market for a big open-roofed s**thouse in Edinburgh the value was all in the land and took into account demolition of said latrine. The money that Ukio's administrator is accepting is not for the land though, it's a heavily-discounted settlement of the debt that HoMFC owed them. Why they are accepting that when they had the option of selling the land on the open market is beyond me.

In Rangers case there was a disgraceful exercise in creative accounting to cover the undervalue that Duff & Phelps sold the business to Sevco for. IIRC, taken to its conclusion it meant that the creditors effectively paid Sevco something like £13m to take the Rangers business name.


A cynic writes:
A few of us have waited, so far in vain, for Duff & Duffer's role to be the subject of proper scrutiny by the authorities. I don't suppose it's in the interests of the accounting professions to point out that some of their number habitually play fast and loose with principles of honesty, integrity, etc.

It's worth pointing out that BDO and Duff & Phelps are direct competitors in what is a very dirty profession. If BDO can find fault with D&P's actions and are able to substantiate it legally they will take great pleasure in exposing it to the public.

[greenpaper55]

This bit, "I suspect that there is a little shame deep down". They have no shame ,they are just two faced cheats, plain and simple.

[jacomo]

Jackson must have known this as he spoke. How does he think it's acceptable to stand in front of a camera and suggest otherwise? Why is there no Vince Lunny-equivalent having a word in his ear? Where is the dividing line between spinning and lying and has he crossed it?

Not for me. BJ wants to present the situation in the best possible light for him. If journalists don't press him on the most awkward questions he isn't obliged to dwell on them.

Nothing he said was untrue.

[SurferRosa]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( :top marksby the way..... )

[Onceinawhile]

What calculations were these? And what is the "football club coefficient"?

By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.

The second part I merely meant that you were looking at it without factoring in the fact that a football club isn't a normal business. I think the assertions that You've made have been based on a normal company going into admin, and we've seen that a football club won't react the same.

[Onceinawhile]

People like yourself have been just as at fault by continually touting a fantasy best case scenario for Hearts at every turn. If some of the more outlandish posts were to be believed, they would be preparing for a champions league campaign next season. I don't doubt the integrity of Bajilions or Sergey and their sources. They have shared information they have received, that's all, and generally not confused their own speculations with this. If this thread is so ridiculous to you, I suggest you leave it and rely on the likes of McLaughlin, Anderson and FOH spokespersons, for your info on this matter.

I've not painted that type of scenario at all, though I agree some people have. Fwiw, I reckon hearts are going down and will be struggling for a good few years, but talk of liquidation which is still rife on this thread is imo nonsense.

As for people's sources being more itk, they aren't. No one in Scotland is only those in Lithuania. Sure people might hear something a day or two before it comes out, but I've seen not a single post on here that's been well ahead of the media.

[Treadstone]

By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.


Hearts did go 'burst'.

[CropleyWasGod]

By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.

The second part I merely meant that you were looking at it without factoring in the fact that a football club isn't a normal business. I think the assertions that You've made have been based on a normal company going into admin, and we've seen that a football club won't react the same.

My prediction, based on whatever knowledge and experience I have of businesses (including football ones) getting into trouble, was that there would be a relatively short administration followed by liquidation.

The first bit is looking ropey, as I hadn't anticipated the UBIG complications. However, in administration terms, it probably is still on the short side.

The second part? Less likely than it was 3 months ago, sure, but it is still on the cards.

[steakbake]

Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( :top marksby the way..... )

...but...but... that was different, ken likesay...

[lapsedhibee]

Not for me. BJ wants to present the situation in the best possible light for him. If journalists don't press him on the most awkward questions he isn't obliged to dwell on them.

Nothing he said was untrue.

"I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value..."

At the time of speaking, after the conditional CVA was voted through, they quite clearly did have value.

Slippery at best. For simplicity I'd just call it a lie, rather than 'presenting things in the best possible light for him'.

[blackpoolhibs]

I've not painted that type of scenario at all, though I agree some people have. Fwiw, I reckon hearts are going down and will be struggling for a good few years, but talk of liquidation which is still rife on this thread is imo nonsense.

As for people's sources being more itk, they aren't. No one in Scotland is only those in Lithuania. Sure people might hear something a day or two before it comes out, but I've seen not a single post on here that's been well ahead of the media.

I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

[GreenLake]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

Gasman - The evolutionary perfection of a brainfart

[greenginger]

"I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value..."

At the time of speaking, after the conditional CVA was voted through, they quite clearly did have value.

Slippery at best. For simplicity I'd just call it a lie, rather than 'presenting things in the best possible light for him'.


" I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value "

Hibs.net has got to convince UBIG that the shares DO have a lot of value.

Either in the cash FoH have to cough up, or in the extra funds generated for the Ukio admin. through liquidation.

Either way it will end up with the Lith. State.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

Exactly. He's consistently stated it and it's been consistently ignored, denied or dismissed as irrelevant by many on this site and the mainstream media. Hopefully we will now see just how 'irrelevant' this factor is.

[Onceinawhile]

I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Deansy]

I have experience in working with businesses who going down the swanny, Hearts could come out of all this debt free tomorrow and would still be completely struggling for years. Baring a miracle (or Killie admin) they will be relagated this year and will struggle in a very competitive league, that stadium takes up a hell of a lot of cash just to keep it open and they have a core support that wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league. All this will put stresses on whoever picks up this mess and may cause them to spiral into another admin.

What should be our mentality is, yes Hearts will survive this. Hibs and the clubs fans must make it our duty, to absolutely destroy this team on the park. This will kill them more than any financial situation.Huge opportuntiy for us to do this in the next 5/10 years

That 'core support who wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league' has only really existed since Mercer began their 'Finance Football' business-model (which successive owners continued) - let's see what happens to their numbers after 2-3 seasons of hearts teams filled with players they can actually afford :wink:

[Jack]

If people are going to ignore those of us in the know then that's just fine. But I assume they'll stop reading this thread and the newspapers and other media as well because up to today not a single outlet has managed 100% accuracy in their reporting.

I trust my source and the people on this board a lot more than I trust the likes of Brian Mclauchlin and Barry Anderson.

There's still plenty reading your very interesting posts Bajillions :-)

Thank you.

[Coco Bryce]

Absolute roaters.
We will never let them forget and that's what counts :flag:


So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Jack]

There's no point arguing with the folk who repeatedly tell themselves that Santa won't be coming this year, so they're happy when all they get is a satsuma :wink:

A friend from Tamsons hates Christmas.

When his kids were young he went into the back garden and burst a balloon.

Back in the house the kids asked "What was that Dad" "Santa's just shot himself, Christmas is cancelled!"

A few balloons getting burst down Gorgy way I suspect - in more ways than one ;-)

[The_Sauz]

Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

Just for you Sergey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENWOLce59s
:greengrin

[The_Sauz]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

That lot have no shame...:agree:
It does not matter if they start thinking today.....Ohh **** we have just done the same! They have been doing well before they made those original post's!

[The_Sauz]

A friend from Tamsons hates Christmas.

When his kids were young he went into the back garden and burst a balloon.

Back in the house the kids asked "What was that Dad" "Santa's just shot himself, Christmas is cancelled!"

A few balloons getting burst down Gorgy way I suspect - in more ways than one ;-)

Don't you mean AGAIN!!!
:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

So you think he's been making this all up, why would you say this? You cant just make a statement like that and then say you will leave it at that?

Sergey has only stated the facts, and is still stating them. His source was only giving her opinion which he gave on here.

Its all guesswork at the end of the day, but his source has given us some great insight into this, and he's been spot on 99% of the time.

Thats why his source has been given a lot more credit than you just speculating on what you here and read from the Scottish press or BDO and FOH.

The facts are those share ARE frozen, something he and his source have said for quite a while, but ignored by everyone involved on the Hearts side and even the media.

Although BDO suddenly feel its an issue, and want Hearts fans to forget about Xmas now.

Dont you find this strange, and dont you agree thats what sergey has said all along?

[Jack Hackett]

" I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value "

Hibs.net has got to convince UBIG that the shares DO have a lot of value.

Either in the cash FoH have to cough up, or in the extra funds generated for the Ukio admin. through liquidation.

Either way it will end up with the Lith. State.

The thing that gets me is the barefaced cheek of FoH asking for the shares for zilch, when they have money in the bank ready to spend on the team once they get hold of them.

"Oh we can't give you that because we promised the punters we'd only use it after we ditched our debt for a fraction of its value"

MAKE THEM PAY THROUGH THE NOSE or tell them to bolt!!!

[Chibs]

Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( :top marksby the way..... )

Yes it has :flag:

[Mellow Hibee]

Yes it has :flag:

:thumbsup:

They don't seem to like it very much.

[SloopJB]

3 - 2 Elgin Get in.

[Keith_M]

3 - 2 Elgin Get in.


Eh, what's that got to do with the Hearts CVA?


:greengrin

[The Modfather]

So you think he's been making this all up, why would you say this? You cant just make a statement like that and then say you will leave it at that?

Sergey has only stated the facts, and is still stating them. His source was only giving her opinion which he gave on here.

Its all guesswork at the end of the day, but his source has given us some great insight into this, and he's been spot on 99% of the time.

Thats why his source has been given a lot more credit than you just speculating on what you here and read from the Scottish press or BDO and FOH.

The facts are those share ARE frozen, something he and his source have said for quite a while, but ignored by everyone involved on the Hearts side and even the media.

Although BDO suddenly feel its an issue, and want Hearts fans to forget about Xmas now.

Dont you find this strange, and dont you agree thats what sergey has said all along?

I don't believe he has a source either and simply passes of educated guesses as having a source. How many predictions did he make as to Hearts going into administration? 10th time lucky? His source certainly has a scatter gun approach to snippets of information :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Didn't Sergey's 'source' say that the CVA would be rejected, or did I get that wrong?

He predicted financial doom for Hearts for five years. It eventually arrived.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day :wink:

[Dashing Bob S]

Jambo 1: UBIG?

Jambo 2: Aye. We're the big team.

[brog]

I don't believe he has a source either and simply passes of educated guesses as having a source. How many predictions did he make as to Harts going into administration? 10th time lucky? His source certainly has a scatter gun approach to snippets of information :greengrin

Well unlike you I know Sergey & I know he has a source. Regardless it astonishes & saddens me that Hibs fans apparently take delight in jumping all over another fan who has kept us updated & entertained for months now. As other posters have said Sergey has been rattling on about the frozen shares for what seems aeons. Until yesterday I can't recall those shares ever being discussed in the MSM.

[Keith_M]

Well unlike you I know Sergey & I know he has a source. Regardless it astonishes & saddens me that Hibs fans apparently take delight in jumping all over another fan who has kept us updated & entertained for months now. As other posters have said Sergey has been rattling on about the frozen shares for what seems aeons. Until yesterday I can't recall those shares ever being discussed in the MSM.


What's his source called?

[matty_f]

What's his source called?

Hooters McBoobs.

[hibs0666]

What's his source called?

Why bother reading this thread? You'd be better sticking with the Evening News and Daily Record websites if all you want to do is take a pop at Hibs supporters giving their opinion. It's only the internet FFS.

[blackpoolhibs]

Well unlike you I know Sergey & I know he has a source. Regardless it astonishes & saddens me that Hibs fans apparently take delight in jumping all over another fan who has kept us updated & entertained for months now. As other posters have said Sergey has been rattling on about the frozen shares for what seems aeons. Until yesterday I can't recall those shares ever being discussed in the MSM.

:agree:

And folk wonder why he posted most of the information on the PM board? :rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

Hooters McBoobs.


I know her well :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

3 - 2 Elgin Get in.
Wrong thread Have you lost your Elgin Marbles

[Moon unit]

I know her well :greengrin

Leave my Cousin out of this,she's a nice lass...INFLATED ego though!..:greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

What do you think is an appropriate Christmas present to be sending to the Cheating Hearts who are being asked by the Administrator to cancel x mass and pump more Money into that pink rust bucket as the well paid administrators might need another four months before sealing their fate

[SuperAllyMcleod]

I see the brokebackers are still whinging about the poor ticket sales for the Celtic match.

Looks as though their "good news" hasn't encouraged them to go and back the team.

Let's hope those who do go are suffering under an avalanche of goals for 90 mins.

[weonlywon6-2]

I see the brokebackers are still whinging about the poor ticket sales for the Celtic match.

Looks as though their "good news" hasn't encouraged them to go and back the team.

Let's hope those who do go are suffering under an avalanche of goals for 90 mins.


Take it they havent sold many tickets then

[Sanger]

:agree:

And folk wonder why he posted most of the information on the PM board? :rolleyes:
Something he tried to get me to do. Wanted to share what I knew with the public board. I did think Hearts would be liquidated based on the scale of the losses to Lithuania and the need to recoup as much as possible. But clearly as I pointed out a few weeks ago the Lith government were not going to hold Hearts responsible for Romanov and were going to accept the CVA as they effectively control UKIO and UBIG, the latter being nothing other than a vehicle to wash the loans through to Romanov. hearts will almost certainly get relegated and spend of time in the lower leagues given their lack of financing post the CVA never mind Rangers presence in the championship next season. hearts do not have the resources to both fund the CVA and the running of the club for several years. Hearts will be a very unattractive prospect with attendances and hence revenues falling. We can take pleasure in their presence on the fringes of Scottish football why we should be going to be the major force outside the ugly Glasgow two.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Take it they havent sold many tickets then

About 7,500 if brokeback is to be believed - you're never sure with that lot. I'm looking forward to seeing the empty seats on TV tomorrow and then winding some of The Cheats up.

[Keith_M]

About 7,500 if brokeback is to be believed - you're never sure with that lot. I'm looking forward to seeing the empty seats on TV tomorrow and then winding some of The Cheats up.


Just as long as they lose as well. That lot have surely used up a life time's worth of luck already.

[weonlywon6-2]

About 7,500 if brokeback is to be believed - you're never sure with that lot. I'm looking forward to seeing the empty seats on TV tomorrow and then winding some of The Cheats up.


Cheers,big team yeah!!

[SloopJB]

Eh, what's that got to do with the Hearts CVA?


:greengrin


Wrong thread Have you lost your Elgin Marbles
I may have taken a wrong turning.
Oops.
3 - 2 by the way

[Jonnyboy]

I suggest we start a fund for TB if you have spare cash give it to hibs its time to forget about othrr clubs and concentrate on hibs.....imagine the boost Terry Butcher would get from a new fighting fund to get new players how much could be raised is this not the best way to improve over hearts or whoever help fund better players ...

Fans can do that very thing by donating to The Hibernians or Leith Links. Monies raised go to buying season tickets for disadvantaged kids which is brilliant. At the same time, monies raised go into the managers kitty

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Fans can do that very thing by donating to The Hibernians or Leith Links. Monies raised go to buying season tickets for disadvantaged kids which is brilliant. At the same time, monies raised go into the managers kitty

Where do we get details on how to contribute?

[Jonnyboy]

Where do we get details on how to contribute?

Here you go buddy

The Hibernians http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TheHiberniansMembers/0,,10290,00.html

Leith Links http://leithlinks4kids.com/

[Greenworld]

Fans can do that very thing by donating to The Hibernians or Leith Links. Monies raised go to buying season tickets for disadvantaged kids which is brilliant. At the same time, monies raised go into the managers kitty

That sounds a great cause and a great way to fill the ground
I have never heard of this before so I would suggest a big number of hibs fans have not
Either. ........can hibs.net do more to promote and give
More detail on how we do this . How good would it be if enogh money
Was donated to get anothrr 1000 bums on seats

[Jonnyboy]

That sounds a great cause and a great way to fill the ground
I have never heard of this before so I would suggest a big number of hibs fans have not
Either. ........can hibs.net do more to promote and give
More detail on how we do this . How good would it be if enogh money
Was donated to get anothrr 1000 bums on seats

:agree:

[rcarter1]

Jambo 1: UBIG?

Jambo 2: Aye. We're the big team.

:thumbsup::hilarious

[Greenworld]

Fans can do that very thing by donating to The Hibernians or Leith Links. Monies raised go to buying season tickets for disadvantaged kids which is brilliant. At the same time, monies raised go into the managers kitty

That sounds a great cause and a great way to fill the ground
I have never heard of this before so I would suggest a big number of hibs fans have not
Either. ........can hibs.net do more to promote and give
More detail on how we do this . How good would it be if enogh money
Was donated to get anothrr 1000 bums on seats

[rcarter1]

I have experience in working with businesses who going down the swanny, Hearts could come out of all this debt free tomorrow and would still be completely struggling for years. Baring a miracle (or Killie admin) they will be relagated this year and will struggle in a very competitive league, that stadium takes up a hell of a lot of cash just to keep it open and they have a core support that wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league. All this will put stresses on whoever picks up this mess and may cause them to spiral into another admin.

What should be our mentality is, yes Hearts will survive this. Hibs and the clubs fans must make it our duty, to absolutely destroy this team on the park. This will kill them more than any financial situation.Huge opportuntiy for us to do this in the next 5/10 years

Love this.

[Sergey]

Personally, I think his [sic] Sergey's source is from the land of make believe.




I don't believe he has a source either...blah, blah, blah

Is there a collective noun for cretins?

[RoYO!]

Can someone correct me if im wrong...
Its ukio who have the deeds to tynie so thats why they are being offered the 2.5mil.
Ubig hold no securities so hertz offer them zero. So they can either accept that.. or hold out for.... nothing. Is that right?

[Jonnyboy]

Is there a collective noun for cretins?

I think it might be ar5eholes?

[lapsedhibee]

Is there a collective noun for cretins?

A gorgie.

[HibeeHendo]

Out in town. Was enjoying my cigarette until some hearts **** started waving 5-1 with his fingers in my puss.

[Coco Bryce]

Out in town. Was enjoying my cigarette until some hearts **** started waving 5-1 with his fingers in my puss.

Text message maybe??

[The Modfather]

Is there a collective noun for cretins?

Cretin, wind your neck back in. I don't know you, all I have to go on are your posts on here. From what I've read over the years your record when it comes to predicting the demise of Hearts is patchy at best, you cried wolf one too many times for me in regards to when they would go into administration, hence my skepticism.

No one has has stuck the boot in, merely a couple of people who don't know you saying they take your source with a pinch of salt, nothing more, and not an entirely ridiculous assertion.

Lets not get all AVB over any "criticism" of a poster on an internet messageboard.

[rcarter1]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

Belting. A classic snapshot of human hypocrisy.

Concerned that these guys may have made their comments a while ago, or were unrepresentative samples:

Average number of Posts : 9000 (1000 -23000 range)
Active in Kickback as of today: 5/6

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone correct me if im wrong...
Its ukio who have the deeds to tynie so thats why they are being offered the 2.5mil.
Ubig hold no securities so hertz offer them zero. So they can either accept that.. or hold out for.... nothing. Is that right?

Hearts have the deeds to the PBS. UKIO have the security. So they get the money on offer.

UBIG will get nothing if there is liquidation. They may get something for their shares if the CVA goes through.

[lapsedhibee]

They may get something for their shares if the CVA goes through.

Or, to put it another way, the CVA may go through if they get something for their shares.

[CropleyWasGod]

Or, to put it another way, the CVA may go through if they get something for their shares.

:agree:

[HibeeHendo]

Text message maybe??

No, just thought I'd share my hatred.

[Deansy]

Yes it has :flag:

link ?

[leggeto]

Hearts have the deeds to the PBS. UKIO have the security. So they get the money on offer.

UBIG will get nothing if there is liquidation. They may get something for their shares if the CVA goes through.

so how much of their debt have they written off with this cva

[CropleyWasGod]

so how much of their debt have they written off with this cva

If it goes through, about £27m.

[leggeto]

If it goes through, about £27m.

2.5m for 27m and all the humpings they've dished out to us,think they maybe got a good deal there,have thought all along after falling into the barrel of sh@ite they will be smelling of roses after all

[rcarter1]

If it goes through, about £27m.

So about £8 for every man, woman and child in Lithuania, + £3 million to pay their taxes and other creditors. Well played Hearts :******:

[greenginger]

So about £8 for every man, woman and child in Lithuania, + £3 million to pay their taxes and other creditors. Well played Hearts :******:

And thats not counting the debt for equity and forgiveness debt scams which added another £ 20 odd million which the Lithuanian people will end up paying for.

[Jack Hackett]

And thats not counting the debt for equity and forgiveness debt scams which added another £ 20 odd million which the Lithuanian people will end up paying for.

This is something else which the msm fail to mention when talking about hertz debts. The old Derren Brown sleight of hand....now you see it, now you don't. Wasn't the debt traded into the worthless shares which are now being held by UBIG? The same shares FoH now want returned to their ownership for nothing. Almost makes me believe that they DID owe it to themselves. They're certainly getting rid of it for f*** all

[SurferRosa]

This is something else which the msm fail to mention when talking about hertz debts. The old Derren Brown sleight of hand....now you see it, now you don't. Wasn't the debt traded into the worthless shares which are now being held by UBIG? The same shares FoH now want returned to their ownership for nothing. Almost makes me believe that they DID owe it to themselves. They're certainly getting rid of it for f*** all

Indeed. And while the rest of Scottish football closes it`s eyes and takes little interest in this, the scam that the Gorgie rats have perpetrated is on a far worse scale than the one Rangers did. DeadCo robbed Hector and cheated Scottish football. Hearts robbed Hector, cheated Scottish football, robbed a number of charities and scammed a nation out of it`s savings.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Indeed. And while the rest of Scottish football closes it`s eyes and takes little interest in this, the scam that the Gorgie rats have perpetrated is on a far worse scale than the one Rangers did. DeadCo robbed Hector and cheated Scottish football. Hearts robbed Hector, cheated Scottish football, robbed a number of charities and scammed a nation out of it`s savings.


this :agree:

[Pete]

I can't say I'm too bothered about this mob any more.

It feels good waking up knowing that I amn't a fraud and that everything I have achieved I have done so without cheating.

I almost pity them as no matter what they do from now on, this CVA will always cast a shadow on their club.

[#FromTheCapital]

Bob Jamieson seems like a good guy though

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-cva-a-big-step-but-fears-remain-1-3215406

[Keith_M]

OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......

[Weststandwanab]

Out in town. Was enjoying my cigarette until some hearts **** started waving 5-1 with his fingers in my puss. Stub your cigarette out on them next time.


I can't say I'm too bothered about this mob any more.

It feels good waking up knowing that I amn't a fraud and that everything I have achieved I have done so without cheating.

I almost pity them as no matter what they do from now on, this CVA will always cast a shadow on their club. It certainly will.

[Jim44]

OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......

What idiots are going to buy shares in a white elephant just to make life difficult for FoH? This guy Jamieson is by all accounts a bit of an idiotic Walter Mitty character.

[#FromTheCapital]

What idiots are going to buy shares in a white elephant just to make life difficult for FoH? This guy Jamieson is by all accounts a bit of an idiotic Walter Mitty character.

I'd be up for organising a hibs.net kitty and buying the shares... Then plunging them into liquidation :cb

[Eyrie]

If I'm reading this thread correctly the Save Hearts In Trouble offer is £2.5m.

Of that money, the first chunk will go on paying BDO for their hard work in saving the Yams. The balance will then be split between UKIO in exchange for the security over the PBS and a small amount to UBIG for their shares?

But doesn't that mean that UBIG will be getting a preference over the other shareholders and creditors if they receive something? Is that preference legal? And what value can their shares have, now that the votes have taken place?

[The Falcon]

If it goes through, about £27m.

Does the £27m include the debt for equity swaps/debt write off, inter co transactions?

As well as the UBIG shareholding is the quantum holdings shareholding significant at all?

[brog]

There appears to be a belated outburst of honesty emanating from BDO & F of H.
1. BDO have basically stated that Shoeless Bob is trying to buy the shares, if he does then hello liquidation!
I love BJ's comment though " we have prior knowledge & experience though that they ( the Liths ) don't have yet". Yep, like PBS on its own is worth a lot more than the £1.5/£2.0m that UKio will get.
2. Meanwhile Ian Murray is hit by contrition & for the first time mentions businesses & HMRC losing out because of Yams actions.
Now here's a perverse thought. I think given that UBIG stands for Ukio Bankas Investment Group there's a fair chance that UKIO & UBIG, may, contrary to BDO's assertions be one & the same, right now effectively the Lithuanian government. What's to stop UBIG demanding several millions for their shares, probably even £1m would scupper the deal. Liquidation follows, UKIO gets a hold of PBS after all. UKIO tell Yams we tried our best, its these pesky guys at UBIG that did it. Result - happiness!!
PS, I think some people owe Sergey an apology. Its now clear they originally intended to vote against the CVA & were persuaded to abstain by BJ. They may also have realised they now have sole leverage with the shares. This will run & run!

[Virginia Hibs]

Maybe BDO have a PM account on here and Sergeys info was the catalyst for the negotiations to start last week.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[brog]

OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......



As you're probably aware by now it appears Shoeless Bob has done exactly that. The value of anything however is what another party is prepared to pay to get it. In this case UBIG's shares are worth whatever Bob J has offered or whatever F of H may raise Bob's bid by. I suspect UBIG could probably squeeze about £0.5m out of F of H. If Bob's bid is in excess of that & he can deliver guarantees then as you say UBIG really have to accept that deal. Perversely, Bob's fantasy re owning Yams may be a more sustainable business model than F of H!

[Keith_M]

As you're probably aware by now it appears Shoeless Bob has done exactly that. The value of anything however is what another party is prepared to pay to get it. In this case UBIG's shares are worth whatever Bob J has offered or whatever F of H may raise Bob's bid by. I suspect UBIG could probably squeeze about £0.5m out of F of H. If Bob's bid is in excess of that & he can deliver guarantees then as you say UBIG really have to accept that deal. Perversely, Bob's fantasy re owning Yams may be a more sustainable business model than F of H!

Yep, read that just after I posted.

I still don't trust him, though, so I still think we'de be better trying to get the money together ourselves http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/greengrin2.gif



I'd be up for organising a hibs.net kitty and buying the shares... Then plunging them into liquidation :cb

I'll donate :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps...... Like an off shore company and backed by STF ?

[Keith_M]

Like an off shore company and backed by STF ?




:greengrin

[Col2]

OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......

If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them?

[Keith_M]

If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them?


Why would Hibs fans buy them? I'm sure you could think of a reason.

[Treadstone]

If I'm reading this thread correctly the Save Hearts In Trouble offer is £2.5m.

Of that money, the first chunk will go on paying BDO for their hard work in saving the Yams. The balance will then be split between UKIO in exchange for the security over the PBS and a small amount to UBIG for their shares?

But doesn't that mean that UBIG will be getting a preference over the other shareholders and creditors if they receive something? Is that preference legal? And what value can their shares have, now that the votes have taken place?

The £2.5m is for the CVA, the UBIG shares in HoMFC would have to be negotiated (and paid for) separate of this pot.

[SurferRosa]

Its now clear they originally intended to vote against the CVA & were persuaded to abstain by BJ. They may also have realised they now have sole leverage with the shares. This will run & run!

Sorry, i must have missed something. What evidence found or statement given proves this?

[Weststandwanab]

:greengrin No I am serious !


If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them? Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

[CropleyWasGod]

No I am serious !

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !
If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

[Just Alf]

Sorry, i must have missed something. What evidence found or statement given proves this?

I think it's the press statement from BDO (Brian J) .... Basically he said they were negotiating late on Thursday with UBIG and successfully managed to get them to abstain. .... Think it was the Scotsman that reported it.

[Weststandwanab]

If the CVA fails, it's liquidation. Indeed but someone, with that idea in mind, and time until January to negotiate a variance of that with a four way agreement could pull that off ! Sevco was a five way agreement.

[Keith_M]

If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.


Yes, but weststand's scenario could still come to fruition, in that the assets would then be sold separately.


However, my 'proposal' is cheaper and much simpler. Buy the UBIG shares for a few hundred grand then sit on them while Hearts go into Liquidation.

Et Voila, Mercer's dream of 'One City, One Team' is finally realised and, if the purchaser just happened to own or support that one remaining team, money well spent.

[SurferRosa]

I think it's the press statement from BDO (Brian J) .... Basically he said they were negotiating late on Thursday with UBIG and successfully managed to get them to abstain. .... Think it was the Scotsman that reported it.

OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper. :greengrin


Yep, it's a bit too much 'Better Together' for my liking as well.


:wink:

[Just Alf]

OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper. :greengrin

Lol

Me neither ..... Mind you, if it's "good" news about them, I read everything! :D

[Sanger]

So about £8 for every man, woman and child in Lithuania, + £3 million to pay their taxes and other creditors. Well played Hearts :******:

The total cost as I have detailed here several times is £70 million because of all the debt forgiveness and debt to equity tricks that Romanov pulled over the years. Nearly 25% of the Lith state's bailout of Ukio.

[Hibrandenburg]

Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths!

[Weststandwanab]

Yes, but weststand's scenario could still come to fruition, in that the assets would then be sold separately.


However, my 'proposal' is cheaper and much simpler. Buy the UBIG shares for a few hundred grand then sit on them while Hearts go into Liquidation.

Et Voila, Mercer's dream of 'One City, One Team' is finally realised and, if the purchaser just happened to own or support that one remaining team, money well spent. True, and that would be great as a Hibby but my scenario would mean no loss of a couple of hundred big ones and possible control over the rent payable for the PBS for decades to come !


Yep, it's a bit too much 'Better Together' for my liking as well.


:wink::greengrin


The total cost as I have detailed here several times is £70 million because of all the debt forgiveness and debt to equity tricks that Romanov pulled over the years. Nearly 25% of the Lith state's bailout of Ukio. You are correct but whether if is £8, or £80, a head it is disgraceful.

[Weststandwanab]

Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths! I think this is a distinct possibility.

[Crazyhorse]

I think this is a distinct possibility.

I do hope you are right but is it not the two set of lith administrators who would have to be in league with each other to arrange this?

[brog]

Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths!

i said much the same in #32879 . I think it's a tad too Machiavellian to happen but would be pleasing!

[Weststandwanab]

I do hope you are right but is it not the two set of lith administrators who would have to be in league with each other to arrange this? Anything is possible now I would not rule it out.

[Gus Fring]

Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it? :na na:

[Heisenberg]

Only 7k Hearts fans in attendance today. Pretty abysmal.

[jonty]

Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it? :na na:

Only if results like this continue.
Its just a shame it wasn't a league game and goes towards their goal difference.

[c31]

Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it? :na na:

They are still allowed to play and use the ground whilst many have lost out financially so until they are shut down then yes I think they are getting away with it.

[Gus Fring]

Only if results like this continue.
Its just a shame it wasn't a league game and goes towards their goal difference.

this is will hurt them more financially. That horrible attendance is split which makes it worse and now they've lost all the income a cup run brings.

Hearts are 14 points adrift. I can't see them not being relegated unless Killie enter administration.

[basehibby]

If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA :confused:

[Gus Fring]

I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA :confused:

The CVA has been approved. UBIG abstained.

The question now is not if the CVA will fail but whether UBIG will let the FOH have the shares for nowt. They may not be worth anything to anyone else (except maybe Bob Jamieson or similar) but they are worth something to FOH. UBIGs administrator has nothing to lose by demanding a couple of million for them.

[Aldo]

Found this earlier



11430

[Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iteRKvRKFA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[basehibby]

The CVA has been approved. UBIG abstained.

The question now is not if the CVA will fail but whether UBIG will let the FOH have the shares for nowt. They may not be worth anything to anyone else (except maybe Bob Jamieson or similar) but they are worth something to FOH. UBIGs administrator has nothing to lose by demanding a couple of million for them.

Bizzare! That serves the Lithuanian taxpayer how??? Hearts are responsible for a £70million hole in the Lithuanian economy and the administrators at UBIG let them off for nothing :confused:

Well I hope they at least make them pay through the nose for the shares although that will inevitably be a paltry amount compared to what was actually paid for them.

[Gus Fring]

Bizzare! That serves the Lithuanian taxpayer how??? Hearts are responsible for a £70million hole in the Lithuanian economy and the administrators at UBIG let them off for nothing :confused:

Well I hope they at least make them pay through the nose for the shares although that will inevitably be a paltry amount compared to what was actually paid for them.

We don't know exactly why they abstained but it would appear they simply didn't have enough information to make a decision. They'd only been in charge for just over a week and probably haven't got a clue what Hearts is until now. They did ask for extra time but were convinced otherwise by BDO. There's every chance they'll take exception to their thieving once they have all the info.

The alternative to them being liquidated is just as appetising to me.

It'll lead to the catastrophic failure of their business later when they are inevitably relegated and the harsh business reality sets in.

Remember, they are never as likely to bring in as much money as they are just now and they are still struggling to sruvive.

They have a lot of money being thrown at them because they were on their deathbeds and they still have a lot of players and staff who took wage cuts and who are still not being paid what they should be. Couple that with large donations from fans and other clubs, an increase in season tickets that would not have happened under normal circumstances not to mention the inevitable cancelling of direct debits if results like today happen regularly.

Hearts fans may think their future is bright but to everyone else it's very difficult to see how it can be anything other than bleak.

[Jim44]

this is will hurt them more financially. That horrible attendance is split which makes it worse and now they've lost all the income a cup run brings.

Hearts are 14 points adrift. I can't see them not being relegated unless Killie enter administration.

12 points actually, but who' s counting? :-)

[Gus Fring]

12 points actually, but who' s counting? :-)

Not me obviously :na na:

[HibbyAndy]

Not me obviously :na na:

Thats cause you havent got a clue what your talkin aboot ;-)

[Gus Fring]

Thats cause you havent got a clue what your talkin aboot ;-)

In my defence, Hibs have never been on minus points so I've never had to do arithmetic that included a negative number before. :wink:

[HibbyAndy]

In my defence, Hibs have never been on minus points so I've never had to do arithmetic that included a negative number before. :wink:

:greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Hope for Killie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25158769

[Jonnyboy]

What idiots are going to buy shares in a white elephant just to make life difficult for FoH? This guy Jamieson is by all accounts a bit of an idiotic Walter Mitty character.

All the more reason for us to hope his bid is accepted :wink:


If I'm reading this thread correctly the Save Hearts In Trouble offer is £2.5m.

Of that money, the first chunk will go on paying BDO for their hard work in saving the Yams. The balance will then be split between UKIO in exchange for the security over the PBS and a small amount to UBIG for their shares?

But doesn't that mean that UBIG will be getting a preference over the other shareholders and creditors if they receive something? Is that preference legal? And what value can their shares have, now that the votes have taken place?

Like :greengrin

[jacomo]

We don't know exactly why they abstained but it would appear they simply didn't have enough information to make a decision. They'd only been in charge for just over a week and probably haven't got a clue what Hearts is until now. They did ask for extra time but were convinced otherwise by BDO. There's every chance they'll take exception to their thieving once they have all the info.

The alternative to them being liquidated is just as appetising to me.

It'll lead to the catastrophic failure of their business later when they are inevitably relegated and the harsh business reality sets in.

Remember, they are never as likely to bring in as much money as they are just now and they are still struggling to sruvive.

They have a lot of money being thrown at them because they were on their deathbeds and they still have a lot of players and staff who took wage cuts and who are still not being paid what they should be. Couple that with large donations from fans and other clubs, an increase in season tickets that would not have happened under normal circumstances not to mention the inevitable cancelling of direct debits if results like today happen regularly.

Hearts fans may think their future is bright but to everyone else it's very difficult to see how it can be anything other than bleak.

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0?

Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there?

As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.

[Aldo]

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0? Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there? As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.

I think in the last 4 games UTD have scored 4 in 3 and 5 in the other game,

Hopefully take heart from the score today.

[Ronniekirk]

Can they survive long enough for EVERYONE to beat them 7-0?

Obviously we did it first, now Celtic... Has anyone else? Maybe the Arabs can give it a crack next and then see how things progress from there?

As they fall down the divisions the likes of Falkirk, Berwick and even Sevco can have a go.
They won't win another game now until after they are officially relegated you could see the realisation on all the shocked drawn faces .They can't come back from this and neither should they Natural Justice will always prevail

[Mellow Hibee]

I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA :confused:

I think that it might come down to whether UKIO are the biggest creditors of UBIG. If UKIO believe that £2.5M (paid immediately)is the best they can get out of the situation then UBIG will be working in the best interest of their creditors by accepting £1 for the shares which allows the CVA.

If UBIG take say £250k for the shares from a third party then BDO have to liquidate and UKIO will have to get what they can, when they can for the sale of Tynecastle.

I'd be interested to see a list of UBIG's creditors to see who else is involved but I'm not sure if there is one?

[Jack]

I think the way things are going BDO are going to get the £2.5m leaving UKIO nowt!

[Mellow Hibee]

I think the way things are going BDO are going to get the £2.5m leaving UKIO nowt!

I think that FOH have agreed to pay BDO fees.

[tamig]

I think that FOH have agreed to pay BDO fees.

But the fees keep rolling on. Where are they going to get that cash? The £2.5M will be slowly but surely ebbing away.

[Mellow Hibee]

But the fees keep rolling on. Where are they going to get that cash? The £2.5M will be slowly but surely ebbing away.

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

[tamig]

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

Indeed. But it can't roll on for ever. The accumulated fees will surely get to a stage where the net cash UKIO are due is also slashed - assuming that the mounting fees mean that they (FOH) need to start eating into the £2.5M as their only way of paying BDO?

[Jim44]

After a general browse around KB, I can't help feeling that the heads are beginning to go down. Friday's 'lift' seems to be levelling out and today's humiliation and the prospect of another thumping from D Utd next weekend has definitely dampened spirits. This surprises me as prior to today they have always displayed a brave and more often than not defiant, arrogant posture. A few more bad results, the limbo period of their CVA and the constant demand for cash sacrifices might break their resolve once and for all. As one who has always had reservations about the extent of their demise, my hopes are definitely being risen to a new level.

[Mellow Hibee]

Indeed. But it can't roll on for ever. The accumulated fees will surely get to a stage where the net cash UKIO are due is also slashed - assuming that the mounting fees mean that they (FOH) need to start eating into the £2.5M as their only way of paying BDO?

I hope so. I'm also hopeful that the cash at the club runs low before they're out of admin too. Even if FOH have plenty from the pledges or money available from the loans I don't think that they'd be able to help because there is no guarantee that they come out of admin so they'd have to pay it back at some point.

Jackson also talked about selling season tickets early but I think that he'd have to make it clear to both fans and credit providers that there's no guarantee of all the games being played.

I think BDO might be really worried about this hence the "no christmas" chat.

[brog]

I presume that FOH have £2.5M for the CVA, say £1M working capital and c£500k for the BDO fees(access to that money in the form of loans anyway). I'd think that UKIO wanted around £3M but took £2.5 on the understanding that FOH pay the fees which could get pretty high as time goes on. I hope it drags on and on leaving FOH with a hefty bill, but at the same time, they are already collecting pledges and every monthe the CVA drags on for is a month that they don't have to pay the working capital to keep the club afloat.

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

[Gus Fring]

I hope so. I'm also hopeful that the cash at the club runs low before they're out of admin too. Even if FOH have plenty from the pledges or money available from the loans I don't think that they'd be able to help because there is no guarantee that they come out of admin so they'd have to pay it back at some point.

Jackson also talked about selling season tickets early but I think that he'd have to make it clear to both fans and credit providers that there's no guarantee of all the games being played.

I think BDO might be really worried about this hence the "no christmas" chat.

if he so much as hinted at that being a possibility the SPFL would be all over him like a tramp on chips. If that was the case I would imagine he'd have the common sense to keep his trap shut. If the customers get shafted it's of little consequence in the grand scheme of things.

[Mellow Hibee]

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

I saw it quoted somewhere I'm sure, I'll see if I can find a link.

[Mellow Hibee]

I'm not sure where this stuff about F of H paying BDO fees is coming from, other than JKB. I really doubt that is case otherwise it's effectively a £3m+ deal & there has never been any indication that F of H had that much Wonga! Is there a definitive source for this new "fact"? ps im not having a go at you, just interested.

You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Mellow Hibee]

if he so much as hinted at that being a possibility the SPFL would be all over him like a tramp on chips. If that was the case I would imagine he'd have the common sense to keep his trap shut. If the customers get shafted it's of little consequence in the grand scheme of things.

Surely it would be self evident that if a CVA hasn't been agreed and signed, and liquidation is the only other option then a season ticket for the next season is not very secure. I wouldn't imagine a credit card company would be too happy to pay for the tickets?

[Gus Fring]

I posted this in the thread about their attendance but it has relevance in this thread as well as part of the larger conversation.

-


Attendances have been falling for a while but BDO have continued the old Hearts tradition of starting with the Season Tickets whether they attend or not and then adding walk ups etc. Walk ups have been in the hundreds for some matches I'm told.


The old method in the Romanov days would be to give a couple thousand tickets away to various schools etc to inflate the attendance. They would also all be counted regardless of whether they turned up or not.


They can't do that with cup matches because the gate is split so they need to be as accurate as possible. All-ticket matches such as this and the Wolfsburg game paint a much more honest picture of attendances at Hearts.

[monktonharp]

I think in the last 4 games UTD have scored 4 in 3 and 5 in the other game,

Hopefully take heart from the score today.you are just nitpicking. half those games were against very wee clubs. big clubs do not do those kind of scores against them:rolleyes:

[#FromTheCapital]

I posted this in the thread about their attendance but it has relevance in this thread as well as part of the larger conversation.

-


Attendances have been falling for a while but BDO have continued the old Hearts tradition of starting with the Season Tickets whether they attend or not and then adding walk ups etc. Walk ups have been in the hundreds for some matches I'm told.


The old method in the Romanov days would be to give a couple thousand tickets away to various schools etc to inflate the attendance. They would also all be counted regardless of whether they turned up or not.


They can't do that with cup matches because the gate is split so they need to be as accurate as possible. All-ticket matches such as this and the Wolfsburg game paint a much more honest picture of attendances at Hearts.

And todays result is only going to make attendances worse for hear7s.

Most jambos I know who actually go to games (not many) don't enjoy going and are only doing it out of a sense of duty. If/when they get relegated the numbers will take a dramatic plunge.

[Sanger]

I think that it might come down to whether UKIO are the biggest creditors of UBIG. If UKIO believe that £2.5M (paid immediately)is the best they can get out of the situation then UBIG will be working in the best interest of their creditors by accepting £1 for the shares which allows the CVA.

If UBIG take say £250k for the shares from a third party then BDO have to liquidate and UKIO will have to get what they can, when they can for the sale of Tynecastle.

I'd be interested to see a list of UBIG's creditors to see who else is involved but I'm not sure if there is one?

Yes UkIo are biggest creditors of UBIG . If you read all the reports on Bloomberg from a financial journalist who is actually based in Lithuania then UKio lent the money to UBIG where Romanov and co the. Farmed it out to various "investment projects" and no doubt some went in to their own pockets. Hearts were one of these investment projects. Clearly as I have stated before the Lith government are not blaming Hearts but Romanov and co for blowing £70 million. The Hearts being liquidation by Ukio/UBIG story is over although liquidation may eventually come under the new ownership structure. hearts have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting money from fans. Their finances will only worsen as relegation and dwindling attendances see a sharp reduction in income. Hearts will go from one financial crisis to another over the next two years. Is a slow death better to watch than a quick execution . If you wait long enough by the river you'll see the bodies of your enemies float by!

[gorgie greens]

Yes UkIo are biggest creditors of UBIG . If you read all the reports on Bloomberg from a financial journalist who is actually based in Lithuania then UKio lent the money to UBIG where Romanov and co the. Farmed it out to various "investment projects" and no doubt some went in to their own pockets. Hearts were one of these investment projects. Clearly as I have stated before the Lith government are not blaming Hearts but Romanov and co for blowing £70 million. The Hearts being liquidation by Ukio/UBIG story is over although liquidation may eventually come under the new ownership structure. hearts have reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting money from fans. Their finances will only worsen as relegation and dwindling attendances see a sharp reduction in income. Hearts will go from one financial crisis to another over the next two years. Is a slow death better to watch than a quick execution . If you wait long enough by the river you'll see the bodies of your enemies float by!

the thought of jambo bodies floating down the river like there club nice thought
I came on here asking where Sergey was,at no point was i having a go at him,i just wanted some of his input as to his thoughts on how the vote went regarding the CVA,i have found his views worth reading and the fact that he was insistant on the fact that the shares are frozen and hopefully will be hidden deep in the tundra somewhere for a long time,on keekback last night itwas a joy to read the in house fighting and feel things will implode big time in the next couple of months,running out of money,stuck in limbo for a while,after the lows on Friday i feel things are changing for the better from our point of view,and hope for a slow and painfull death for the club with no shame.
Now lets put the boot in when we play them at New Year.

[Aldo]

you are just nitpicking. half those games were against very wee clubs. big clubs do not do those kind of scores against them:rolleyes:

Drat!! Sussed!!! Me and my nitpicking. :-D

[PapillonVert]

After a general browse around KB, I can't help feeling that the heads are beginning to go down. Friday's 'lift' seems to be levelling out and today's humiliation and the prospect of another thumping from D Utd next weekend has definitely dampened spirits. This surprises me as prior to today they have always displayed a brave and more often than not defiant, arrogant posture. A few more bad results, the limbo period of their CVA and the constant demand for cash sacrifices might break their resolve once and for all. As one who has always had reservations about the extent of their demise, my hopes are definitely being risen to a new level.

They're finding out what a level playing field looks like and, for the cheats, it's not a pretty sight.

No more financial doping allowed. The cheating days are over.

[Berwickhibby]

Please excuse my ignorance, it may have been covered earlier in this thread. But if the CVA is agreed does that also absolve the ****bos of the outstanding debt owed to HMRC. I was under the impression that the repayment agreement was with HMFC not UBIG

[greenlex]

Please excuse my ignorance, it may have been covered earlier in this thread. But if the CVA is agreed does that also absolve the ****bos of the outstanding debt owed to HMRC. I was under the impression that the repayment agreement was with HMFC not UBIG

HMRC are part of the CVA That BDO have managed to get agreed .

[Jim44]

HMRC are part of the CVA That BDO have managed to get agreed .

........ and will receive the princely sum of sod all like many of the other creditors, some of whom, despite being regally shafted, still offer them their services and no doubt will continue to do so.

[jacomo]

TBF to Bryan Jackson, he didn't say that they will need more money. He said that, if they start to run out of money in March/April, they will need to go back to the fans. The administration is not insolvent yet. Were they, there could be only one way to go.

They may yet assess the situation in the light of the UBIG issues and decide to cut staff in order to ease the pressure. He said in the interview that the cash flow is fluid... that they have had some unexpected income, but that there could be some negative situations as well.

Main variables being how long Hearts stay in the cups and how many punters turn up for home games.

Just a guess, but I don't think it's going as well as they would hope.

[Caversham Green]

You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

As I read that it means that some of BDO's fees will be paid out of any profit/cash raised while the club is in administration.

In any event it strikes me as a very naïve move by FoH since it means that a proportion of their post-administration working capital - which is going to be extremely tight in any case - will be going to BDO. Furthermore, the amount they will have to pay is open-ended unless BDO have put an immutable cap on their fees (and I don't believe for a minute that they have).

[Weststandwanab]

As I read that it means that some of BDO's fees will be paid out of any profit/cash raised while the club is in administration.

In any event it strikes me as a very naïve move by FoH since it means that a proportion of their post-administration working capital - which is going to be extremely tight in any case - will be going to BDO. Furthermore, the amount they will have to pay is open-ended unless BDO have put an immutable cap on their fees (and I don't believe for a minute that they have).CG they did not cap because BJ feared all along that it would not be a quick CVA if it was agreed at all. Yesterday's result was bad for BDO and F.O.H. and I suspect both will have to move positions to keep this particular ship afloat cash wise whilst the Liths consider what to do.

[Caversham Green]

CG they did not cap because BJ feared all along that it would not be a quick CVA if it was agreed at all. Yesterday's result was bad for BDO and F.O.H. and I suspect both will have to move positions to keep this particular ship afloat cash wise whilst the Liths consider what to do.

That makes sense - capping fees for an unquantified job would be very foolish, and BDO are no fools.

[FitbaFolkKen]

In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

[Gus Fring]

In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

Yes and he's apparently trying to buy the UBIG shares.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes and he's apparently trying to buy the UBIG shares.

Really?

Missed this. So, bring me up to speed....

If BDO don't get hold of the UBIG shares, for whatever reason, the CVA fails. If Jamieson then buys those shares, he's bought a white turkey.

The only way I can see such a move succeeding is if there is a new CVA, with him as the new bidder.

Unless I have missed something, this doesn't make sense to me.

[jacomo]

In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

Alluded to in this story:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-cva-a-big-step-but-fears-remain-1-3215406

The Scotsman can't even name Bob Jamieson, unless that somehow improves his chances! After all the free advertising they've given FoH, they are no doubt oozing with seethe at this development.

Our local media have entirely given up reporting this story in any meaningful way - it's now just a propaganda rag for FoH.

[Gus Fring]

Really?

Missed this. So, bring me up to speed....

If BDO don't get hold of the UBIG shares, for whatever reason, the CVA fails. If Jamieson then buys those shares, he's bought a white turkey.

The only way I can see such a move succeeding is if there is a new CVA, with him as the new bidder.

Unless I have missed something, this doesn't make sense to me.

This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts.

[Weststandwanab]

This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts. Post 32889 is my guess what he may be up to.

[CropleyWasGod]

This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts.

Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

[Gus Fring]

Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

He doesn't like the FOH, he's made that clear. Perhaps he was doing it to scupper the CVA but now that it's been approved he may have changed his mind or come up with a new plan. He's been quiet over the weekend so I'm not sure.

[Weststandwanab]

Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta. Post 889 read as below but that was really me thinking about STF. If you substitute STF for cuddly Bob, I still think it is a slim possibility.

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

[brog]

You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Thanks for this, I have to say the form of wording sounds official enough but I agree with Cav's interpretation & analysis of the statement. To summarise, if Yams make a profit while in administration then that profit will be set off against BDO fees, an unusual solution. As Cav says though it illustrates the naivety of F of H allowing an open ended commitment such as this. I also agree with Cav & others, & posted a while back that I really don't see BDO accepting a cap on their fees.
After a shaky start, turned out to be a bit of a Carlsberg weekend!

[CropleyWasGod]

Post 889 read as below but that was really me thinking about STF. If you substitute STF for cuddly Bob, I still think it is a slim possibility.

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

But the buyer of the shares will have bought something that is worthless. That's the bit I don't get.

The rest makes sense.

[brog]

Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

Seems no doubt it is Bob from comments made by BJ. I assumed he was trying to force liquidation or somehow make a quick buck (unlikely) on the shares. Just part of the never-ending fun to be had from the circus in Gorgie!

[Weststandwanab]

But the buyer of the shares will have bought something that is worthless. That's the bit I don't get.

The rest makes sense. As I suggested yesterday there is time for the two deals to be done simultaneously one entity buys the shares and the stadium and the other (F.O.H.) buys the club and what is left. The latter rents the PBS from the former. If I was Cuddly Bob/STF that is what I would try.

[CropleyWasGod]

As I suggested yesterday there is time for the two deals to be done simultaneously one entity buys the shares and the stadium and the other (F.O.H.) buys the club and what is left. The latter rents the PBS from the former. If I was Cuddly Bob/STF that is what I would try.

Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc.

[Gus Fring]

Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc.

All Bobs dealings happened before the CVA was approved

What if Bob buys the UBIG shares for £1m causing the CVA to fail. He then offers another CVA with exactly the same terms, thereby gaining control of everything and shafting FOH in the process? He could feasibly then go back to FOH and say "give me £5m and I'll sell you the lot" making himself a tidy profit in the process.

[Weststandwanab]

Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc. A.N. Other "offers" the Liths say £xm for the Shares and the PBS and a yes to a CVA, whilst simultaneously BJ persuades F.O.H. to do a C.V.A. without the stadium and to rent the stadium annually from A. N. Other. or words to that effect !

[CropleyWasGod]

All Bobs dealings happened before the CVA was approved

What if Bob buys the UBIG shares for £1m causing the CVA to fail. He then offers another CVA with exactly the same terms, thereby gaining control of everything and shafting FOH in the process? He could feasibly then go back to FOH and say "give me £5m and I'll sell you the lot" making himself a tidy profit in the process.

A dangerous path.

1. if the CVA fails, BDO would be in their rights to start the liquidation process, leaving him with a turkey that he has just paid £1m for.

2. even if he does attempt a new CVA, I don't think that he has enough time to make it work before the money runs out.

[CropleyWasGod]

A.N. Other "offers" the Liths say £xm for the Shares and the PBS and a yes to a CVA, whilst simultaneously BJ persuades F.O.H. to do a C.V.A. without the stadium and to rent the stadium annually from A. N. Other. or words to that effect !

I think I see but, as with Bajillion's suggestion, I don't see it as workable given the lack of time and money. It would be a completely new CVA.

[Weststandwanab]

I think I see but, as with Bajillion's suggestion, I don't see it as workable given the lack of time and money. It would be a completely new CVA.I accept my suggestion is difficult and unorthodox but with difficult times comes strange solutions if all sides want to find a solution acceptable to all. I have tried to think if I was advising STF how to acquire the PBS and rent it to the Direct Debiters and that is what I think I would try. Equally if could work for a delusional Cuddly Bob.

[CropleyWasGod]

I accept my suggestion is difficult and unorthodox but with difficult times comes strange solutions if all sides want to find a solution acceptable to all. I have tried to think if I was advising STF how to acquire the PBS and rent it to the Direct Debiters and that is what I think I would try. Equally if could work for a delusional Cuddly Bob.

Either would be as well waiting for liquidation, and then renting it to them.

[Weststandwanab]

Either would be as well waiting for liquidation, and then renting it to them.
That is undoubtedly true but one is a bampot who like the limelight - and probably would not be using his money and the other may feel it is in the better interest of Hibernian F.C. and either of them take away the "issues" with the big L.

[Jack]

What if its Shoemaker Bobs plan to buy the UBIG shares, say £500k for their 50%, then force liquidation, the sale of the wongadome and any other assets.

With S.H.I.T. unable to muster as many shares, only 35% from UKIO and no chance of getting vladimirs hidden 15% stash held by sis, Uncle Bob would then be best placed to go to the SFA and acquire the yams license to play.

Billy Big Baws Bob would then be calling the shots in negotiating the future of their horrid little club.

Lots of things could happen after that with the wongadome not necessarily the pivotal deal maker/breaker. It could be bought in admin by S.H.I.T. or Bob Sleigh, or both, or neither and rented back on a short term lease until Tesco or Cala get building permissions.

Just a thought.

[CropleyWasGod]

What if its Shoemaker Bobs plan to buy the UBIG shares, say £500k for their 50%, then force liquidation, the sale of the wongadome and any other assets.

With S.H.I.T. unable to muster as many shares, only 35% from UKIO and no chance of getting vladimirs hidden 15% stash held by sis, Uncle Bob would then be best placed to go to the SFA and acquire the yams license to play.

Billy Big Baws Bob would then be calling the shots in negotiating the future of their horrid little club.

Lots of things could happen after that with the wongadome not necessarily the pivotal deal maker/breaker. It could be bought in admin by S.H.I.T. or Bob Sleigh, or both, or neither and rented back on a short term lease until Tesco or Cala get building permissions.

Just a thought.

If he forces liquidation, he has spent £500k on shares that have no value. The fact that he has more shares than anyone else would be irrelevant. The company would be in liquidation.

The assets, including the SFA licence, would be up for sale to the highest bidder. Bob's shareholding in the dead company would be irrelevant to that process.

[StevieC]

But the buyer of the shares will have bought something that is worthless. That's the bit I don't get.

They would be worthless in relation to the assets (ie stadium) but wouldn't they give him the upper hand with respect to the SPFL license?

Wasn't his plan from day one to sell the stadium and start from scratch (with the promise of a new stadium)?

Rangers were liquidated, but the Chuckie consortium still managed to take control of the football club afterwards. If Hearts are liquidated (and the Liths in control of the stadium), what are the criteria that decides who is in control of the club?

[CropleyWasGod]

They would be worthless in relation to the assets (ie stadium) but wouldn't they give him the upper hand with respect to the SPFL license?

Wasn't his plan from day one to sell the stadium and start from scratch (with the promise of a new stadium)?

Rangers were liquidated, but the Chuckie consortium still managed to take control of the football club afterwards. If Hearts are liquidated (and the Liths in control of the stadium), what are the criteria that decides who is in control of the club?

The Rangers case was different. The CVA was offered on the basis that, if it failed, Green had the option to buy the assets at a pre-determined price. That approach isn't part of the Hearts CVA.

The SPFL licence is currently an asset of HMFC. If it is liquidated, it is sold off. It doesn't matter who the current shareholders are.

[jacomo]

I accept my suggestion is difficult and unorthodox but with difficult times comes strange solutions if all sides want to find a solution acceptable to all. I have tried to think if I was advising STF how to acquire the PBS and rent it to the Direct Debiters and that is what I think I would try. Equally if could work for a delusional Cuddly Bob.

The sweetest part is that Hibs have absolutely nothing to do with Hearts' downfall... they brought it all on themselves. We're having nothing to do with their current situation either.

Even if STF did see a huge profit to be made by acquiring Tynecastle, I am sure he will stay well clear. Absolutely no need to be accused of revenging Mercer or any of that.

[Aldo]

All STF needs to do is to find someone he trusts to keep quite and give them the money to buy the pbs. Simples ;-)

[Golden Bear]

I believe that Bob has already identified a suitable site for a brand new stadium (no idea where it is.)

I overheard the end of a recent conversation and the guy whom he was addressing response was "that will be ideal for visiting supporters"

Seems as though the said Bob and his pals have plans other than the purchase of the UBIG shares.


The saga continues.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Bob's plan is to offer a separate CVA for the club only without the stadium. That way Ubig and Ukio get paid.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think Bob's plan is to offer a separate CVA for the club only without the stadium. That way Ubig and Ukio get paid.

Don't think that's possible. A CVA has to be for the whole company.

[Ozyhibby]

FoH must have been raking it in last week with the amount of posters on kickback claiming they didn't go yesterday but made a donation to FoH instead. They wouldn't be telling porkies would they? :-)

[Ozyhibby]

Don't think that's possible. A CVA has to be for the whole company.

I don't think anything about his bid is possible, I'm just hopeful he can slow things down a bit. :-)

[leggeto]

I think they will have no debt,keep the PBS but I live in hope

[Weststandwanab]

They would be worthless in relation to the assets (ie stadium) but wouldn't they give him the upper hand with respect to the SPFL license?

Wasn't his plan from day one to sell the stadium and start from scratch (with the promise of a new stadium)?

Rangers were liquidated, but the Chuckie consortium still managed to take control of the football club afterwards. If Hearts are liquidated (and the Liths in control of the stadium), what are the criteria that decides who is in control of the club? Precisely and that was Cuddly Bob's original plan. As for Chuck you are correct he did, so why could Cuddly Bob/STF's representative not do likewise, directors control the day to day running of a Company but ultimate control is vested in the shareholders.


The Rangers case was different. The CVA was offered on the basis that, if it failed, Green had the option to buy the assets at a pre-determined price. That approach isn't part of the Hearts CVA.

The SPFL licence is currently an asset of HMFC. If it is liquidated, it is sold off. It doesn't matter who the current shareholders are. As I said why could this not occur again there is precedence with Sevco so SFA and SPFL could hardly object. As for not part of the C.V.A. how do we know that ?


The sweetest part is that Hibs have absolutely nothing to do with Hearts' downfall... they brought it all on themselves. We're having nothing to do with their current situation either.

Even if STF did see a huge profit to be made by acquiring Tynecastle, I am sure he will stay well clear. Absolutely no need to be accused of revenging Mercer or any of that. You are correct but there are nine ways to skin a rabbit and many more ways to hide financial control via off shore companies and the likes of CW.


All STF needs to do is to find someone he trusts to keep quite and give them the money to buy the pbs. Simples ;-) Indeed not CW though.


I believe that Bob has already identified a suitable site for a brand new stadium (no idea where it is.)

I overheard the end of a recent conversation and the guy whom he was addressing response was "that will be ideal for visiting supporters"

Seems as though the said Bob and his pals have plans other than the purchase of the UBIG shares.


The saga continues. Cuddly did it is land owned by DM in the West of Edinburgh.


I think Bob's plan is to offer a separate CVA for the club only without the stadium. That way Ubig and Ukio get paid. Not a separate C.V.A., the original C.V.A. minutes after the stadium has been disposed of so it is "excluded" from a C.V.A. for what remains.


Don't think that's possible. A CVA has to be for the whole company. You, of course, are correct but see above and previous posts this afternoon.


FoH must have been raking it in last week with the amount of posters on kickback claiming they didn't go yesterday but made a donation to FoH instead. They wouldn't be telling porkies would they? :-) My brother posted that and he is Celtic supporting so and so

[Weststandwanab]

I don't think anything about his bid is possible, I'm just hopeful he can slow things down a bit. :-) Liths and frozen shares will hold things up nicely.

[CropleyWasGod]

As I said why could this not occur again there is precedence with Sevco so SFA and SPFL could hardly object. As for not part of the C.V.A. how do we know that ?


o

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain my point properly.

The Rangers deal that was on the table for creditors was A. the CVA and then, if that was rejected, B. liquidation with Sevco buying the assets at an agreed price. The creditors rejected A and accepted B. All of that was in the public domain before the vote.

In Hearts case, AFAIK, there is only a Plan A. Whilst I haven't actually seen the proposal itself, there has been enough public discussion on it to convince me that there is no Plan B. Indeed, Bryan Jackson himself said that had the CVA been rejected, it would have meant liquidation and that "there was nowhere else to go". Had there been a Sevco-style plan B, I'm pretty sure that we would have known about it by now.

[Weststandwanab]

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain my point properly.

The Rangers deal that was on the table for creditors was A. the CVA and then, if that was rejected, B. liquidation with Sevco buying the assets at an agreed price. The creditors rejected A and accepted B. All of that was in the public domain before the vote.

In Hearts case, AFAIK, there is only a Plan A. Whilst I haven't actually seen the proposal itself, there has been enough public discussion on it to convince me that there is no Plan B. Indeed, Bryan Jackson himself said that had the CVA been rejected, it would have meant liquidation and that "there was nowhere else to go". Had there been a Sevco-style plan B, I'm pretty sure that we would have known about it by now. No apology necessary, you did explain yourself properly and I think I did understand your point. I agree what you write about plan A for Sevco and, if that failed, plan B. In Hearts case, there is only plan A that we know of, (After all nobody knew about the Sevco plan B until plan A failed) but I suggested there could be a Plan B - along the lines I outlined - if Plan A fails because say the frozen shares will not be delivered because of what is on offer under plan A bit may be delivered under what may be possible under Plan B.

[CropleyWasGod]

No apology necessary, you did explain yourself properly and I think I did understand your point. I agree what you write about plan A for Sevco and, if that failed, plan B. In Hearts case, there is only plan A that we know of, (After all nobody knew about the Sevco plan B until plan A failed) but I suggested there could be a Plan B - along the lines I outlined - if Plan A fails because say the frozen shares will not be delivered because of what is on offer under plan A bit may be delivered under what may be possible under Plan B.

It was in the public domain before the vote.

[Weststandwanab]

It was in the public domain before the vote. Sorry if that was the case I was unaware of it.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think they will have no debt,keep the PBS but I live in hope

That's not possible :-)

[EK_Hibs]

I think the fact that we now appear to have pinned our hopes on a caravan dwelling yam who's not the full shilling speaks volumes.

Close the thread folks. They got away with murder, accept it and move on. I did on Friday.

We have a lot to look forward to under TB, particularly with possibly January ins and outs, unlike the yams. :)

[leggeto]

That's not possible :-)

all I ever wanted for them as a punishment is to be homeless,if that happens I'll be happy

[green day]

That's not possible :-)

A bam on friday said to me "after this there will be only one club in edinburgh with major debts" (after the CVA being voted through)

I did ask him how Save Hearts In Trouble intended to repay the purchase cost "The biddies dont want repaid" was the smug answer.

What about the fitba debts I asked "They are being paid by the fans" was his witty riposte. I couldnt help laughing in his chops at that one.

What about operating expenses? "we have the money to see us through the season"

and it went on...........

I mean - I can remember the dark days when FTB tried to close us down, and we were all pretty rational about what MIGHT happen if it all went wrong. Talk about starting again on local parks etc.

But what amazes me - and even the most sensible jambos display this - is their unwavering resolve that This Will All Go Away.

They really are deluded.

[Gus Fring]

I think the fact that we now appear to have pinned our hopes on a caravan dwelling yam who's not the full shilling speaks volumes.

Close the thread folks. They got away with murder, accept it and move on. I did on Friday.

We have a lot to look forward to under TB, particularly with possibly January ins and outs, unlike the yams. :)

It's nearly Christmas and they still haven't made up their points deficit and just equalled their worst ever home defeat. They're not getting away with it.

[EK_Hibs]

It's nearly Christmas and they still haven't made up their points deficit and just equalled their worst ever home defeat. They're not getting away with it.

Fair enough but I was wanting them liquidated so in my opinion they got away with it.
As it is I'll need to settle for them being relegated and spending 1 or 2 seasons in the Championship.

[itslegaltender]

I believe that Bob has already identified a suitable site for a brand new stadium (no idea where it is.)

I overheard the end of a recent conversation and the guy whom he was addressing response was "that will be ideal for visiting supporters"

Seems as though the said Bob and his pals have plans other than the purchase of the UBIG shares.


The saga continues.


David Murray's garden city planning application becomes real at Hermiston. I know others have dismissed this as a possible Yam liferaft, dont discount the idea. the planning ref is Proposal of Application Notice for Edinburgh Garden District 13/04911/PAN

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=MWYXNHEW09Z00

[Wee Scottie Dug]

It's nearly Christmas and they still haven't made up their points deficit and just equalled their worst ever home defeat. They're not getting away with it.

They are about to shed circa £28m of debt and replace it with a manageable debt owed to some benefactor(s) so they are getting away with something. Albeit it is extremely amusing watching them deal with the level playing field and results like yesterday ease the pain of them avoiding liquidation. Let's hope for more of the same and relegation at the end of the season. :thumbsup:

[Spike Mandela]

David Murray's garden city planning application becomes real at Hermiston. I know others have dismissed this as a possible Yam liferaft, dont discount the idea. the planning ref is Proposal of Application Notice for Edinburgh Garden District 13/04911/PAN

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=MWYXNHEW09Z00

If it does come to fruition what's the betting the land at Tynecastle is suddenly back to being worth near £20m:cb

[jacomo]

If it does come to fruition what's the betting the land at Tynecastle is suddenly back to being worth near £20m:cb

I have a question: can the Lithuanians give up Tynie but attach a sell on clause? Eg. Agree a fee of £2.5m but demand 50% of any profit if sold on within 10 years?

[Springbank]

Their core support is already evident at 6000 to 7000

Bye bye glory days

Theyre only loyal when they're cheating

[SurferRosa]

Their core support is already evident at 6000 to 7000

Bye bye glory days

Theyre only loyal when they're cheating

Hmm, i`m sure there`s a song in there....:hmmm: