Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Onion]

It was the Scandinavian Jambos that withdrew.

Club 9 are the ones with Bob Jamieson. Initially reported as a NewCo proposal, but I'm not so sure now.

Bid 3 may be the one that I feared.... the late runner, under the radar, a la Charlie Green.

The secret bidder is an Edinburgh Council and Alex Salmon consortium. Shhhh.

[CropleyWasGod]

Who knows what will happen but frankly if the Lithuanians refuse a CVA DBO will threaten them with getting virtually nothing back. Tynecastle is only valuable with planning permission and you can bet the council/ Salmond will not allow that. We have to make sure the council and our dear first Minister don't play foul. There are virtually no other assets. Totally unfair, if this happens, as they are cheating runts but I suspect you could get the whole thing for £3 or 4 million. The question is does one of their 400,000 fans have £4m? FoH are a non runner so its really down to who this 3rd bid is?

You're missing the point. UKIO, and perhaps UBIG, are secured; the CVA is not their primary concern. They are more concerned with how much a bidder is prepared to pay THEM.

[ScottB]

It would get planning for a supermarket

Doubtful, in the area there is a Scotmid, a LIDL and a Sainsbury's with a second LIDL and an Asda a bit further away.

It's unlikely another supermarket would be approved, or that one would seek to move into the area.


Flats are surely the obvious thing. I don't buy the dangerous area chat, there's a school next door!

[CropleyWasGod]

The secret bidder is an Edinburgh Council and Alex Salmon consortium. Shhhh.

Safe hands then. Tynie will be a tram-shed.

[Sergey]

Latest tweet -


BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin

Angello Massone through 5stars football ltd make late bid for Hearts. Bid highest of the three made but working capital unclear#bbcsportscot

[Jack]

Who knows what will happen but frankly if the Lithuanians refuse a CVA DBO will threaten them with getting virtually nothing back. Tynecastle is only valuable with planning permission and you can bet the council/ Salmond will not allow that. We have to make sure the council and our dear first Minister don't play foul. There are virtually no other assets. Totally unfair, if this happens, as they are cheating runts but I suspect you could get the whole thing for £3 or 4 million. The question is does one of their 400,000 fans have £4m? FoH are a non runner so its really down to who this 3rd bid is?

Nothing to do with Salmond.

Edinburgh Cooncil must have given Cala an indication that planning permissions would be granted when there was chat of the fat pie man flogging tynie to them.

The only issue would be the exploding exclusion zone. I can discount that for you as well as it only affects a small corner of the estate.

An indication of what's going on with the land may become clearer when the cooncil provide further details in relation to the old school building they have recently put up for sale as a redevelopment opportunity.

[judas]

Who knows what will happen but frankly if the Lithuanians refuse a CVA DBO will threaten them with getting virtually nothing back. Tynecastle is only valuable with planning permission and you can bet the council/ Salmond will not allow that. We have to make sure the council and our dear first Minister don't play foul. There are virtually no other assets. Totally unfair, if this happens, as they are cheating runts but I suspect you could get the whole thing for £3 or 4 million. The question is does one of their 400,000 fans have £4m? FoH are a non runner so its really down to who this 3rd bid is?

I think you overestimate the Salmond factor.

For a start, what makes you so sure that the ground needs to be instantly liquidated to satisfy creditors? It could held as an asset.

It would also be almost impossible to deny planning permission on the land. On what grounds could an application be refused? It's not in a conservation zone. The stadium isn't a listed building. There are precedents for housing and retail use.

I would say the the council could protract the planning process but not prevent an outcome in which tynecastle could be demolished.

Salmond doesn't need to e embroiled in something like this at the present time. His experience with Trump was a big enough drag. I think e as far bigger fish to fry.

[CropleyWasGod]

Latest tweet -

Jolly good.... that'll get the Yams revolting. :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

3 bids in for Hearts seemingly.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/232692-administrators-receive-three-bids-to-buy-hearts-as-buyer-deadline-passes/

Administrators BDO have received three bids from potential buyers for Heart of Midlothian.

Joint administrators Bryan Jackson and Trevor Birch set Friday, July 12, as a deadline for interested parties to submit their proposals to buy Hearts.

The club, which is in debt to the tune of £25m, entered administration on June 19 and BDO will now assess the bids to establish which could deliver a CVA. Fan-backed Foundation of Hearts submitted their offer on Thursday, having gained monthly contributions from more than 5000 supporters of the Tynecastle side. STV understands the two bids received on Friday include one from an American-backed group and another unnamed bidder who has not previously been revealed in the media.

Mr Jackson said he would hold further discussions with bidder and the administrators of Ukio Bankas and was "unable to put timescale on announcing preferred bidder."

Hearts' ownership is complex, with insolvent bank Ukio Bankas having a claim to 29.9% of the company, plus Tynecastle Stadium. Ukio is owed £10m by Hearts.
Meanwhile the club's former holding company, UBIG, has 50% of the shareholding and is owed £10m. UBIG has declared insolvency in Lithuania but bankruptcy practitioners have yet to be appointed to the firm.

Until the insolvency process begins at UBIG, the assets are frozen and the 50% shareholding in Hearts cannot be obtained by BDO to sell as part of the CVA.
Meanwhile the capital club also announced season ticket sales had passed the 10,000 mark, having bought over 3,000 briefs in the past three weeks.
Was one of them from from sergey

[ScottB]

Surely Massone would fail a fit and proper person test?

[greenginger]

Was one of them from from sergey

He said he was going to bid just to get a letter of reply to frame.


May'be he has gone in as Massone & Sergey and Co.

[yeezus.]

I was down at Portcullis House meeting my MP a few weeks back, I saw Murray and if he wasn't with two constituents I was gonna shout something at him... mind you given the amount of armed police standing about it may have been a bad idea.

[lord bunberry]

He said he was going to bid just to get a letter of reply to frame.


May'be he has gone in as Massone & Sergey and Co.

He's probably been given preffered bidder status.

[YehButNoBut]

BBC site confirms Massone involved in bid. :greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23295172

Former Livingston owner of Angelo Massone is involved in one of the three groups who are bidding for control of Hearts, BBC Scotland has learned.

Fans' group the Foundation of Hearts, HMFC Ltd, who are financed by American investors, and Five Stars Football Ltd are believed to be bidding.

And Italian Massone is listed as a director of Five Stars Football Ltd. BDO will now assess the bids in detail before making a final decision on who should be the preferred bidder, probably within a four-to-six-week timescale.

During that time, offers can be amended after due diligence is completed and only then will preferred bidder status be announced.

Five Stars Football Ltd have made the largest cash offer for the club but it is unclear how much working capital they have at their disposal.

Massone left Livingston in July 2009 with the club having been placed in administration.

[Waxy]

Surely Massone would fail a fit and proper person test?It's a vast improvement though.

[Waxy]

Hasn't every club he's been to gotten liquidated?

[Dunderhall]

Surely Massone would fail a fit and proper person test?
As I understand it, it is the club itself undertaking an investigation into the new owner in order to deem fit and proper or not. There isn't a defined test as such.

Its a cop out from the football authorities from taking any responsibility should something go wrong subsequently.
Its not clear what part Massone plays in the bid anyway.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hasn't every club he's been to gotten liquidated?

In Scotland, IIRC, there has only been Livi. And they weren't liquidated.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What do the 5 stars represent?

*****,
*****,
glorious *****!

[steviehibsleith]

Is this the same Five Star Football Massone leads. :greengrin Hope so - Taken from business check

Business Overview


Five Stars Football Limited is an Active business incorporated in Scotland on 11th June 2012. Their business activity has not been recorded. Five Stars Football Limited is run by 1 current members. It has no share capital. It is not part of a group.


The company has not yet filed accounts. Five Stars Football Limited's risk score was amended on 13/06/2012.

[Waxy]

If Massone sold swynie and led the yams into the Lowland league............i'd probably involunteraly cream myself.

[degenerated]

This is vintage. A bidding war for hearts really has attracted the worst sort of people. A serial fantasist advised by a corrupt ex council employee. An MP who's snout is never far from the trough, he'd turn up for the opening of a packet of crisps. And a wide boy spiv who has already run one scottish club into the ground. :hilarious

[greenginger]

Is this the same Five Star Football Massone leads. :greengrin Hope so - Taken from business check

Business Overview


Five Stars Football Limited is an Active business incorporated in Scotland on 11th June 2012. Their business activity has not been recorded. Five Stars Football Limited is run by 1 current members. It has no share capital. It is not part of a group.


The company has not yet filed accounts. Five Stars Football Limited's risk score was amended on 13/06/2012.

The company is registered at a house address.

7 Deaconsbank Grove, Thornliebank, Glasgow.

Had a look on Google map and Sat. Decent enough area ( for Weege ) but not Mansion Country.

[Sanger]

Given UBIG still not in administration and the freezing of Romanov's assets only a newco could see a sale to one of the three. Transfer all assets to Newco and sell to preferred bidder with proceeds going in trust to old co until UBIG/frozen assets resolved. Would a newco remain in top league or have to re-apply to bottom tier? Anyway if any of the three are successful then New HMFC would go from one financial crisis to another. The whole things a mess and even if we don't get liquidation will be very enjoyable to watch. Karma what ever happens

[hibee_nation]

At the end of the day we can't fail with whoever gets preferred bidder status, i think on balance i would laugh loudest at Massone winning. :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

Think we're jumping to conclusions here. Could Five Star Football in fact be the Pearsons from Romford? They've not had a hit in ages, but made a packet in the '80s. Maybe they've been keeping it in the bank, just waiting for the right investment? Get it cheap then splash the cash? And they'll have half time choreographed dancing on tap. We'll no be laughing then.

[Famous Fiver]

So it looks like Ann Budge and JK Rowling have kept their hands in their pockets, at least for now. If I've got this right, we have a guy from Sheltered Housing in Peebles. a not fit and proper Italian, and a potless group of fans. BDO need to play a stormer to make a silk purse out of that lot. I think they will be looking to delay and delay so that Premier League status is preserved. Over to you SPL!!!!

[steviehibsleith]

The company is registered at a house address.

7 Deaconsbank Grove, Thornliebank, Glasgow.

Had a look on Google map and Sat. Decent enough area ( for Weege ) but not Mansion Country.
I need to up my game to get to your level.....of stalking :aok:

[Alfred E Newman]

What do the 5 stars represent?

*****,
*****,
glorious *****!

Obviously 5-1

[Dunderhall]

Think we're jumping to conclusions here. Could Five Star Football in fact be the Pearsons from Romford? They've not had a hit in ages, but made a packet in the '80s. Maybe they've been keeping it in the bank, just waiting for the right investment? Get it cheap then splash the cash? And they'll have half time choreographed dancing on tap. We'll no be laughing then.
It could be this 5 star football (http://www.5starfootball.com/) organisation

Someone should let them know.


5-Star football has been part of this community for over 50 years. It is our goal to provide a quality environment and a safe venue to introduce kids to football and to prepare them with the tools necessary for the high school level and beyond.

[Gus Fring]

The 3 bids combined aren't close to what BDO were hoping for. They are going push forward but, as of this evening, liquidation looks like the most likely outcome. Even if they manage to get one of the bidders to come up with the cash needed the process of actually untangling the ownership may be too much to overcome. "A run of good luck with UBIG is needed" I was told.

Also, my source is still maintaining that Angelo Massone is not involved.

[greenginger]

I need to up my game to get to your level.....of stalking :aok:


Well it helps to know if its Peebles sheltered housing or a Craig Whyte Castle we'll be up against. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

The 3 bids combined aren't close to what BDO were hoping for. They are going push forward but, as of this evening, liquidation looks like the most likely outcome. Even if they manage to get one of the bidders to come up with the cash needed the process of actually untangling the ownership may be too much to overcome. "A run of good luck with UBIG is needed" I was told.

Also, my source is still maintaining that Angelo Massone is not involved.

Any clues as to how much that is?

[Springbank]

Doubtful, in the area there is a Scotmid, a LIDL and a Sainsbury's with a second LIDL and an Asda a bit further away.

It's unlikely another supermarket would be approved, or that one would seek to move into the area.


Flats are surely the obvious thing. I don't buy the dangerous area chat, there's a school next door!

Then again there's permission for a morrisons at fruit market (that morrisons have recently said they won't build as they're looking elsewhere) and its right across from asda and round the corner from Sainsburys.

[Eyrie]

In The Rangers defence, their fans didn't have much time to mobilise. Everything kinda came out of the blue.

Fans of Hearts have known this would happen for at least five years and did NOTHING to prevent it.

The Yams did nothing to prevent it because they were too busy supporting the Romanov regime and its financial doping. Actually asking hard questions would have been beyond them, and in many cases it still is.

[Gus Fring]

Any clues as to how much that is?

I believe they were looking for a least £6.2m - 07m

Seriously though, 6m-7m was the figure

[CropleyWasGod]

I believe they were looking for a least £6.2m - 07m

Seriously though, 6m-7m was the figure

That sounds reasonable IMO.

I am shocked, though, if what you're saying about the bids is true. I was expecting at least one of £5m or so.

[21.05.2016]

I believe they were looking for a least £6.2m - 07m

Seriously though, 6m-7m was the figure

:thumbsup::greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Then again there's permission for a morrisons at fruit market (that morrisons have recently said they won't build as they're looking elsewhere) and its right across from asda and round the corner from Sainsburys.

Couldn't find Scott's original post but I thought the 'dangerous area' designation related specifically to the school and the dangers to children by the proximity of a stadium crammed full of nonces. If the stadium was gone, it would by definition no longer be a dangerous area, thus suitable for supermarket development.

[Treadstone]

Well it helps to know if its Peebles sheltered housing or a Craig Whyte Castle we'll be up against. :greengrin

Google street map was the first thing I done with the Peebles address. Took me five minutes before I stopped laughing. No hot drink was spluttered over the keyboard.

[Dashing Bob S]

That sounds reasonable IMO.

I am shocked, though, if what you're saying about the bids is true. I was expecting at least one of £5m or so.

If the individual bids are really so derisory, even given the shoddy caliber of the parties involved, then it's hard to see anything other than liquidation. Now wonder Doncaster was sighted checking Cappliow.

[CropleyWasGod]

If the individual bids are really so derisory, even given the shoddy caliber of the parties involved, then it's hard to see anything other than liquidation. Now wonder Doncaster was sighted checking Cappliow.

I would be interested in hearing whether anybody replied to the "other advert", for the assets of the company. Indeed, whether any of the bidders today are in it just for the assets.

[Waxy]

Could they open the bidding up again?
Hope not.
Doubt it would achieve much.

[CropleyWasGod]

Could they open the bidding up again?
Hope not.
Doubt it would achieve much.

Whilst the discussions with the bidders are ongoing, there's always the chance of someone else making a late bid, like Chucky.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Could they open the bidding up again?
Hope not.
Doubt it would achieve much.

hope so, be great if they started the season in admin, imagine them getting the bus to Easter Road for a derby, having to walk the last 1/4 mile over the bridge. Be ****ing hysterical. They will die, but lets not rush things, this is too much fun.

[Golden Bear]

Google street map was the first thing I done with the Peebles address. Took me five minutes before I stopped laughing. No hot drink was spluttered over the keyboard.

Word on the street is that this guy Jamieson has little or no assets to speak of and is certainly not cash rich.

I particularly like this recent press quote:-

"According to credit agency records, since the late 1980s Jamieson has been the director of 21 other companies which were subsequently dissolved. They include Boroughmuir (Sales) Limited, Bush Beverages Limited, Internet TV Limited and Superpuck Ltd. Jamieson was unavailable for comment last night."

[Dunderhall]

I had a quick look but no success.
Does anyone know/find the restrictions on the sale of the old school.
i thought it was meant to be on the market by now.

[HibeeB]

A wee warning from Alex Mackie from last year...


http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/beware-of-angelo-massone-livingston-chief-warns-hearts-supporters-1-2642387

"ALEX Mackie, chairman of the Foundation of Hearts, has emphatically stated that his consortium will have no dealings with controversial former Livingston owner Angelo Massone and has described the Italian’s interest in the club as “very concerning”."

[Golden Bear]

A wee warning from Alex Mackie from last year...


http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/beware-of-angelo-massone-livingston-chief-warns-hearts-supporters-1-2642387

"ALEX Mackie, chairman of the Foundation of Hearts, has emphatically stated that his consortium will have no dealings with controversial former Livingston owner Angelo Massone and has described the Italian’s interest in the club as “very concerning”."

The phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind.

[HibeeB]

The phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind.

Maybe Fish was good choice for a begging concert...

http://eil.com/images/main/Marillion+-+Clutching+At+Straws+-+Winter+1987-88+-+TOUR+PROGRAMME-445784.jpg

[Alfred E Newman]

Word on the street is that this guy Jamieson has little or no assets to speak of and is certainly not cash rich.

I particularly like this recent press quote:-

"According to credit agency records, since the late 1980s Jamieson has been the director of 21 other companies which were subsequently dissolved. They include Boroughmuir (Sales) Limited, Bush Beverages Limited, Internet TV Limited and Superpuck Ltd. Jamieson was unavailable for comment last night."

He had probably nipped up to the Central for a couple of pints with the other wasters John.

[greenginger]

I had a quick look but no success.
Does anyone know/find the restrictions on the sale of the old school.
i thought it was meant to be on the market by now.

Details are not up yet. I was told someone had been on holiday :confused:

To get to the council estates sales.


1) Council home page
2) On left hand list - click Business and Trade
3) On left hand list again - click Commercial land and Property
4) In centre page at top of list -click Find Commercial property sale/let
5) Scroll down and a map of the city appears. Click the red star in Gorgie and details of the social work premises at the start of Gorgie road appear. The School details will appear here soon.


Had a look back in my files to the the Yam Happy Times. In March 2008 HoMFC agreed to buy the school premises for £ 4.1 million index linked to the to the increase in residential values in Scotland.

[HibeeB]

Had a look back in my files to the the Yam Happy Times. In March 2008 HoMFC agreed to buy the school premises for £ 4.1 million index linked to the to the increase in residential values in Scotland.

I find that hard to believe :confused:

They had £4.1M in 2008 :confused:

And wanted to invest in schoolbairns :confused:

Oh, wait....:faf:

[Dunderhall]

Details are not up yet. I was told someone had been on holiday :confused:

To get to the council estates sales.


1) Council home page
2) On left hand list - click Business and Trade
3) On left hand list again - click Commercial land and Property
4) In centre page at top of list -click Find Commercial property sale/let
5) Scroll down and a map of the city appears. Click the red star in Gorgie and details of the social work premises at the start of Gorgie road appear. The School details will appear here soon.


Had a look back in my files to the the Yam Happy Times. In March 2008 HoMFC agreed to buy the school premises for £ 4.1 million index linked to the to the increase in residential values in Scotland.

Cheers for that, I was following that path at one point but gave up.
it should clear up a few points, I wouldn't think the restrictions would differ from the distillery aspect for the Roseburn end at least if there are different zones in place.

[monktonharp]

What do the 5 stars represent?

*****,
*****,
glorious *****! the only 5 star I've heard of, is Crawford's 5 star whisky. maybe he's involved with the distillery next door, and they want to expand their production site:greengrin

[monktonharp]

If Massone sold swynie and led the yams into the Lowland league............i'd probably involunteraly cream myself.this.

[CropleyWasGod]

The mystery third bidder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23297785

:cb

[ScottB]

The mystery third bidder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23297785

:cb

Fairly strong rumours in the US that he's keen to relocate his NFL team to London, bit off topic for this thread, but I can't decide if his owning Fulham is a good or bad thing for them...

[HibeeB]

The mystery third bidder?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23297785

:cb

A motor industry entrepeneur :dunno:

Could it be STF in disguise :greengrin

[Platinum Scotty]

Not being in Edinburgh these days means i am obviously missing something, but reading all the (piss poor press thats outs there) suggests that one of the 3 bidders is a given for taking this pile of poo on..............but if they are all talking about @£5/6m bids (some spread over umpteen years) and the debts alone are north of £25m, surely they are taking a wizz in the wind and they will all amount to the square root of heehaw and the adminstration will have to admit that they have been fleecing the muppets the same as the mad one............

or am i struggling with cross border understanding!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Fairly strong rumours in the US that he's keen to relocate his NFL team to London, bit off topic for this thread, but I can't decide if his owning Fulham is a good or bad thing for them...

I was meaning al-Fayed. :greengrin

He's always had an affinity with Gorgie. Indeed, he named his boy after Doddie Macdonald.

And.... it would give some posters on here even more reason to hate the Yams.:rolleyes:

[YehButNoBut]

Sky interview with Bryan Jackson here, when asked if any of the 3 bids were acceptable in taking the club forward his reply was no.

Some work still to be done by all 3 me thinks. :greengrin

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/scottish-football/8820898/three-bids-for-hearts

[jgl07]

Surely Massone would fail a fit and proper person test?

Anyone bidding for Hearts would fail the test because of the Sanity Clause in the SPFL regulations! No-one in their right mind would bid.

Massone did say: "You can'ta de fool me, there ain't a no San-ity Claus"!

[CropleyWasGod]

Not being in Edinburgh these days means i am obviously missing something, but reading all the (piss poor press thats outs there) suggests that one of the 3 bidders is a given for taking this pile of poo on..............but if they are all talking about @£5/6m bids (some spread over umpteen years) and the debts alone are north of £25m, surely they are taking a wizz in the wind and they will all amount to the square root of heehaw and the adminstration will have to admit that they have been fleecing the muppets the same as the mad one............

or am i struggling with cross border understanding!!!

A wee bit.

It was always going to be Xp in the £. Nobody ever thought otherwise.

As for the administration, can't agree that they are fleecing anyone. Thus far, they've done things pretty efficiently IMO.

[monktonharp]

So it looks like Ann Budge and JK Rowling have kept their hands in their pockets, at least for now. If I've got this right, we have a guy from Sheltered Housing in Peebles. a not fit and proper Italian, and a potless group of fans. BDO need to play a stormer to make a silk purse out of that lot. I think they will be looking to delay and delay so that Premier League status is preserved. Over to you SPL!!!! It has been a very hot day today, and I got sunburnt. was cooling down as this evening progressed but i'm all hot/cold and shivery now, having read the latest pages of this saga unfolding. It has mair twists than JR Ewing on Dallas! I'm now looking oot my list of bus companies, to get quotes for Greenock on the 10th/11th of Aug. (don't know if sky can switch to another venue last min.) certainly wont be CharlieIirons buses though:wink:

[Platinum Scotty]

A wee bit.

It was always going to be Xp in the £. Nobody ever thought otherwise.

As for the administration, can't agree that they are fleecing anyone. Thus far, they've done things pretty efficiently IMO.

Cheers CWG, being remote from the local vibe is a bit of a weird one..............will keep watching, and reading!!

[rcarter1]

Sky interview with Bryan Jackson here, when asked if any of the 3 bids were acceptable in taking the club forward his reply was no.

Some work still to be done by all 3 me thinks. :greengrin

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/scottish-football/8820898/three-bids-for-hearts

nice link :thumbsup: Seems like a man that is trying hard not to ***** himself.

[jgl07]

Who knows what will happen but frankly if the Lithuanians refuse a CVA DBO will threaten them with getting virtually nothing back. Tynecastle is only valuable with planning permission and you can bet the council/ Salmond will not allow that. We have to make sure the council and our dear first Minister don't play foul. There are virtually no other assets. Totally unfair, if this happens, as they are cheating runts but I suspect you could get the whole thing for £3 or 4 million. The question is does one of their 400,000 fans have £4m? FoH are a non runner so its really down to who this 3rd bid is?

There is not a hope of planning permission being blocked. The City Council would get flayed on appeal and Salmon would not intervene after getting his fingers burned by Donald Trump.

Even Hearts and the City Council have admitted that Tynecastle is 'not fit for purpose'. Anyone recall the recent feasibility study part funded by the City Council? The pitch is not big enough for EUFA rules. The old main stand would cost a fortune to replace. You could probably build a complete new stadium for less cost than that. The rest of the stadium isn't up to much either.

The paranoid obsession that the City Council will somehow 'rescue' Hearts is up there with most conspiracy theories. It will not happen.

I suspect that Tynecastle will be sold on but may be leased back to a Hearts Newco short-term until the housing market recovers.

[Kato]

Hearts stink

[joe breezy]

The administrator says they've for enough to last 3-4 months.
Do they not need to have enough for a full season?

I wonder what he would say if asked if e can guarantee they can play a full season's fixtures?

[Onion]

There is not a hope of planning permission being blocked. The City Council would get flayed on appeal and Salmon would not intervene after getting his fingers burned by Donald Trump.

Even Hearts and the City Council have admitted that Tynecastle is 'not fit for purpose'. Anyone recall the recent feasibility study part funded by the City Council? The pitch is not big enough for EUFA rules. The old main stand would cost a fortune to replace. You could probably build a complete new stadium for less cost than that. The rest of the stadium isn't up to much either.

The paranoid obsession that the City Council will somehow 'rescue' Hearts is up there with most conspiracy theories. It will not happen.

I suspect that Tynecastle will be sold on but may be leased back to a Hearts Newco short-term until the housing market recovers.

:agree: By the City Council :cb:greengrin

[Onion]

The administrator says they've for enough to last 3-4 months.
Do they not need to have enough for a full season?

I wonder what he would say if asked if e can guarantee they can play a full season's fixtures?

The SPL should be in there asking tough questions and feeding answers back to the other clubs, fans and the media. Where there is doubt, they should also be explaining what contingency plans are in place to ensure that the season is not disrupted. There is no reason the season should go pear shaped because the Yams are unable to fulfil fixtures - the SPL/SFA have had ample warning.

[lucky]

It gets better

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23295172

[Part/Time Supporter]

The administrator says they've for enough to last 3-4 months.
Do they not need to have enough for a full season?

No.


I wonder what he would say if asked if e can guarantee they can play a full season's fixtures?

He won't be asked.


The SPL should be in there asking tough questions and feeding answers back to the other clubs, fans and the media. Where there is doubt, they should also be explaining what contingency plans are in place to ensure that the season is not disrupted. There is no reason the season should go pear shaped because the Yams are unable to fulfil fixtures - the SPL/SFA have had ample warning.

There is no SPL/SPFL rule that states that a club has to guarantee they can play all fixtures. A club would be punished if they actually failed to play a fixture without good reason.

Maybe what you're talking about should be in place, but it's not. It would have to be agreed by the clubs. I also doubt whether any club could practically guarantee in advance that they could pay for all of their activities up to a year in advance. Most clubs operate on the assumption that they will receive revenues during the season - they don't have the costs of the season fully funded in advance.

I think you're also over-estimating the amount of difficulty caused by a club ceasing operations during a season. It just means that the league carries on a club short and the other teams miss out on one or two home games. The Swiss league did this in 2011/12 when Neuchatel were kicked out of the league after 18 games of a 36 game season. Everyone else missed one home game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Swiss_Super_League

The other problem about what you're suggesting is that if the authorities demoted a club in severe financial difficulties, they would potentially make the situation far worse. Hearts are not that attractive to buyers as it is, if they were demoted to (say) the Third Division then they would become a lot less attractive and would consequently be in greater danger of liquidation.

[brog]

He had probably nipped up to the Central for a couple of pints with the other wasters John.


Sky interview with Bryan Jackson here, when asked if any of the 3 bids were acceptable in taking the club forward his reply was no.

Some work still to be done by all 3 me thinks. :greengrin

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/scottish-football/8820898/three-bids-for-hearts

I actually thought BJ was quite impressive here though the alacrity with which he said NO was pleasing. :wink: It really only serves to confirm my impression though that BDO are p-ing in the wind for now. They're working their way through the standard admin template, making a decent fist of it, keeping themselves busy & justifying their fees but they know that someone's parked a great big submarine across the road ahead & TBH I don't think they have a clue (understandably) how to proceed beyond that point. Happy days!
ps, he really does have a cadaverous look!

[iainm1875]

Five Stars football ltd????? Surely this is a Rangers reference to the 5 stars they have above their badge, the reason for which has never been clear.

[greenginger]

Five Stars football ltd????? Surely this is a Rangers reference to the 5 stars they have above their badge, the reason for which has never been clear.

Was it not one star for every 10 titles the old club had won, or was one star for every £10 million they had ripped off their creditors for ?

[greenginger]

This Massone bloke seems to be the bogey man they don't want anywhere near the PBS.

I know he ripped off Livi. for a few quid and has a few screws loose, but does he have any other previous and what is his day job ?

[Sanger]

This Massone bloke seems to be the bogey man they don't want anywhere near the PBS.

I know he ripped off Livi. for a few quid and has a few screws loose, but does he have any other previous and what is his day job ?
A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!

[bingo70]

A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!

What did he do that was so bad at livi? Will he pass the fit and proper person to own a club test?

[Part/Time Supporter]

What did he do that was so bad at livi? Will he pass the fit and proper person to own a club test?

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/beware-of-angelo-massone-livingston-chief-warns-hearts-supporters-1-2642387


The lawyer purchased a 76 per cent majority shareholding in Livingston for one pound from Pearse Flynn in 2008 and presided over the most tumultuous period in the club’s short history. Livingston were placed in administration due to unpaid debts to West Lothian Council, from whom they rent Almondvale, in July 2009, following months of turmoil and embarrassment, including electricity being cut off to the club due to arrears due to their power company.

After initially refusing to sell his shares in the club – despite furious protests from fans – Massone ultimately accepted an offer of £50,000 for his stake. Livingston, who narrowly survived the ordeal, were forced to begin life in the Third Division.

http://www.westlothiancourier.co.uk/west-lothian-sport/west-lothian-football/livingston-fc/2010/03/04/angelo-massone-sidesteps-thorny-issue-of-dorrans-cash-62405-25954307/


FORMER Livingston chairman Angelo Massone has distanced himself from any blame in potentially costing the Lions a £1million-plus windfall from sought-after ex-Almondvale ace Graham Dorrans. The controversial Italian is known to have cashed in an agreed 20-per-cent sell-on clause for Scotland star Dorrans for a one-off payment of £50,000 from West Bromwich Albion. And with Barclays Premier League big-spenders Manchester City heading a host of clubs pondering a £6m bid for the 22-year-old, Massone’s actions could end up denying the Lions a whopping £1.2m windfall.

(NB Dorrans is still at West Brom)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/182045-massone-finally-tells-the-truth-at-last-livingston-are-in-trouble



livingston1Livingston chairman Angelo Massone has finally came out and told the truth for once in the ongoing financial wrangle at the Almondvale club. Despite stating for months that everything was rosy at the club, and that they were in discussions to purchase the stadium from the council, Massone has now warned fans that the club could face administration as early as next week.

The Italian made the claim at a stormy open meeting on Thursday night attended by around 200 fans, who were looking for reassurances on the future of the cash-strapped club, but instead Massone finally came clean and told them that to survive the club must sell around 300 season tickets or face administration next week.

Massone, is battling to find cash to keep the club afloat, made an urgent plea for support from fans and the local business community to help now or risk losing the club altogether. However, there is growing resentment at the way the club is run. Wages are regularly paid late, angry creditors are chasing money and the controversy culminated in the suspension of boss Paul Hegarty and No.2 Graeme Robertson.

Season-ticket sales for the 2009-10 campaign have been slow and for those who have purchased books it is believed a staged payment facility has been removed as the club needs the money now. The Livi For Life Supporters Trust, who have campaigned for a community-based rescue plan in the event of administration, were planning to meet with Massone late yesterday to seek a way out of the troubles.

Massone said, “We are working to resolve the problems of the club.”

Livi’s Italian consortium are battling massive debts and sold Dave Mackay and Murray Davidson to St. Johnstone last week for only £45,000 just to ease their plight. A bill of around £280,000 is thought to be outstanding to West Lothian Council for unpaid rent, while a host of other creditors still await payment.

The SFL and SFA are investigating the suspensions of Hegarty and Robertson, who supported players in the row over wage delays. Players are due to be paid next week while backroom staff are still waiting for April wages.

The club’s only saleable asset appears to be Scotland B striker Leigh Griffiths. However, a six-figure bid for the teenager from Dundee has been rejected.

[Geo_1875]

Massone sounds like our preferred bidder.

[greenginger]

A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!


Where would his funding come from ? Does he own a Bank :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!

I think I preferred "wait by the river bank and you will see the bodies of your enemy float by" :greengrin

[HibeeMG]

http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/beware-of-angelo-massone-livingston-chief-warns-hearts-supporters-1-2642387

... After initially refusing to sell his shares in the club – despite furious protests from fans


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/182045-massone-finally-tells-the-truth-at-last-livingston-are-in-trouble

... The Italian made the claim at a stormy open meeting on Thursday night attended by around 200 fans, who were looking for reassurances on the future of the cash-strapped club, but instead Massone finally came clean and told them that to survive the club must sell around 300 season tickets or face administration next week.

Massone, is battling to find cash to keep the club afloat, made an urgent plea for support from fans and the local business community to help now or risk losing the club altogether. However, there is growing resentment at the way the club is run.


And there's the crux of the matter. If he goes in there and starts messing about a la Livingston, there won't be any stormy meetings, there won't be any growing resentment and there certainly won't be any furious protests from the fans.

Which is probably the reason why he's made a bid.

[Sanger]

I think I preferred "wait by the river bank and you will see the bodies of your enemy float by" :greengrin
If has access to the money through his 5 stars group and after all £5m is nothing but loose change to the Mafia if they wish to wash it through the financial system and make a small profit the Liths will bite his hand off and the next episode of the Yams soap opera will start. I fancy it will be even more bizarre than the Romanov era albeit a tad shorter!

[s.a.m]

If this is going to take a while (with BDO talking about around a month for preferred bidder to be identified), and FOH were to be the Chosen Ones, then it will be closer to Christmas when the DDs start to take effect. Which may test their loyalty. :greengrin

[HibeeMG]

If has access to the money through his 5 stars group and after all £5m is nothing but loose change to the Mafia if they wish to wash it through the financial system and make a small profit the Liths will bite his hand off and the next episode of the Yams soap opera will start. I fancy it will be even more bizarre than the Romanov era albeit a tad shorter!

Just for clarity, what exactly would that £5m get them? The club and stadium or just the club?

[CropleyWasGod]

A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!

Are you sure about the bid being £5m?

[Sanger]

Are you sure about the bid being £5m?
That is the figure being quoted in the Record and bid last November was £4.5m. Whether they actually have the funds is another question?

[Geo_1875]

I think I preferred "wait by the river bank and you will see the bodies of your enemy float by" :greengrin

I can't get Beefheart singing "Flies all green and buzzing inthis dungeon of despair..." out of my head. Never thought of it a a feelgood song :)

[BarneyK]

If has access to the money through his 5 stars group and after all £5m is nothing but loose change to the Mafia if they wish to wash it through the financial system and make a small profit the Liths will bite his hand off and the next episode of the Yams soap opera will start. I fancy it will be even more bizarre than the Romanov era albeit a tad shorter!

Surely if the Massone bid is £5 miliion then that doesn't mean the Liths will be getting £5 million? Do you not have to take into account the other creditors and BDO? Plus the Lithuanian side is two separate (albeit connected) debts?

[Eyrie]

Just for clarity, what exactly would that £5m get them? The club and stadium or just the club?

It would be both. The club on its own has no value other than its place in the SPL. Even that isn't worth much, as if they were removed from the top flight then they would be re-admitted to Division 3 following the Sevco Huns precedent.

[CropleyWasGod]

That is the figure being quoted in the Record and bid last November was £4.5m. Whether they actually have the funds is another question?

I'd believe Hibs.net's sources before the MSM :greengrin

[Sanger]

Just for clarity, what exactly would that £5m get them? The club and stadium or just the club?
I think it will be the lot. If liquidated the only thing of worth is the stadium as the players can walk away from their contracts. But may need a newco as I described before because of tangled webbin Lithuanian.

[HibeeMG]

It would be both. The club on its own has no value other than its place in the SPL. Even that isn't worth much, as if they were removed from the top flight then they would be re-admitted to Division 3 following the Sevco Huns precedent.

In that case, I'd be surprised if the Liths accepted £5m as Desantos says (although he does know more about this stuff than me!).

Going by hardline stance that folks such as Sergey say the Liths are going to take on all dodgy financial matters, they would be stupid to accept a figure that is below what they would get by breaking up the assets.

[brog]

BJ's immediate reaction was that none of the bids were acceptable. He then went on to qualify that this was not unusual & all bids required further work & clarification before proceeding. I'm sure this is true but I'm also sure, from the speed with which he answered, that none of the bids currently measure up financially. We don't know full extent of Yam debts but I would hazard a guess that HMRC alone will be in region of £1mm to £1.5mm. I'm not sure they (& Liths ) will be happy to settle for 10p in £ having bent over backwards to keep Yams afloat.

[The Falcon]

A lawyer. Think the Liths will take the £5m on offer from him. Their torture will continue!


So no liquidation then?

[Hibs07p]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

If those figures are accurate, only Massone's bid would come close to satisfying any CVA. By accepting any of the others, the creditors would be subsidising hearts operating costs this season.

GGTTH

[Geo_1875]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

GGTTH
.
So Massone bid is the only one acceptable to the creditors and BDO

[God Petrie]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

If those figures are accurate, only Massone's bid would come close to satisfying any CVA. By accepting any of the others, the creditors would be subsidising hearts operating costs this season.

GGTTH

lol - goodbye hertz

[BarneyK]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

GGTTH

:faf: Aye they'll write off £25 million of debt and forget about their claim on Tynie for a CVA share of £2M right enough. How much did Duff and Duffer get for their handywork again? £2.7 million, wasn't it? http://news.stv.tv/west-central/187518-duff-and-phelps-to-earn-27m-from-overseeing-rangers-administration/


.
So Massone bid is the only one acceptable to the creditors and BDO

Who has said it's acceptable to the creditors?

[Jack]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

GGTTH

Whoo hooo! Barry is back!!!

Corset on to protect sides from splitting, currently doing face exercises to loosen up cheek muscles as they can ache a bit too.

Reality is now officially on hold!!!!!

COME ON BARRY WHAT'S NEXT?

[God Petrie]

Don't forget the administrators fees.

[The Falcon]

.
So Massone bid is the only one acceptable to the creditors and BDO


Even then, what would it really get the creditors? Would it not all be taken by the secured creditors? If it was/is the case that it would all go to those who hold the securities the ordinary creditors would get Zip. And BDO's fees would then be deducted to boot. And what would happen to the cash at the bank?

[CropleyWasGod]

Who has said it's acceptable to the creditors?

BJ answered the creditor question in one word.

NO.


Even then, what would it really get the creditors? Would it not all be taken by the secured creditors? If it was/is the case that it would all go to those who hold the securities the ordinary creditors would get Zip. And BDO's fees would then be deducted to boot. And what would happen to the cash at the bank?

A bid would be structured as:-

xp/£ for the secured creditors.

yp/£ for the unsecured.

£z for the admin fees.

[BarneyK]

BJ answered the creditor question in one word.

NO.

Precisely. So unless things change, I guess what we realistically are looking at is Tynie being sold and them going the way of a YamCo?

[Leithenhibby]

.
So Massone bid is the only one acceptable to the creditors and BDO

Nobody has said that..... In fact, all bids are NOT acceptable at this stage :agree:


Who has said it's acceptable to the creditors?

This will run, and run methinks :wink:

[The Falcon]

A bid would be structured as:-

xp/£ for the secured creditors.

yp/£ for the unsecured.

£z for the admin fees.

Thanks.

I thought I was confused before. Might need Diazepam now.

[--------]

I think I preferred "wait by the river bank and you will see the bodies of your enemy float by" :greengrin


Ah, the ancient Chinese philosophy. Jambos are living in interesting times, are they not?


From my window I see the sunshine, I hear the the birdies singing in the trees. It's a beautiful day ...


http://santamilagros.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/vultures.jpg

The three prospective bidders. Massone's the one in the middle.

[Waxy]

They could very well get liquidated.
But do they go to division three or the lowland league?

[gegs70]

According to Barry, in this mornings EEN.

FOH bid £2M and £3.75m working capital.
Caravan Bob £1.8M and £3.2M.
Massone £4M and £0.

If those figures are accurate, only Massone's bid would come close to satisfying any CVA. By accepting any of the others, the creditors would be subsidising hearts operating costs this season.

GGTTH

Is the working capital is this the money they asume will run the club for a cple of seasons? If so FOH will rely on promises from supporters to be made each month.

Does this include tyncastle in the bids? Im sure if admin sold seperately it would make much more?

[Hibercelona]

Ah, the ancient Chinese philosophy. Jambos are living in interesting times, are they not?


From my window I see the sunshine, I hear the the birdies singing in the trees. It's a beautiful day ...


http://santamilagros.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/vultures.jpg

Looks like 3 yams in a tree to me.

Snarfing money off "wee teams" just to prolong their inevitable doom. Vultures!

[--------]

Aw, gonnae no be nasty to the nice birdies?

When you compare a vulture to a Yam, it's the vulture who has grounds for legal action, not the Yam.

[Hibs07p]

Is the working capital is this the money they asume will run the club for a cple of seasons? If so FOH will rely on promises from supporters to be made each month.

Does this include tyncastle in the bids? Im sure if admin sold seperately it would make much more?

I don't have a clue. One of our resident experts, CWG appears to be the "on call advisor" this morning. What is obvious though is that the first 2 bids are more beneficial to the debtors than the creditors. Something far wrong if that scenario was accepted, which I don't believe they will.

GGTTH

[Geo_1875]

I should have said the Massone bid is the most advantageous to the creditors and BDO. Cash for running costs shouldn't be of interest to them.

[BarneyK]

I should have said the Massone bid is the most advantageous to the creditors and BDO. Cash for running costs shouldn't be of interest to them.

Wouldn't forcing the sale of Tynie be more advantageous compared to a £4 million CVA?

[--------]

Nasty carrion-devouring scavenger:

http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.2324703.1338285898!/image/490016676.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/490016676.jpg

Nice birdie:

http://www.picgifs.com/bird-graphics/bird-graphics/vulture/bird-graphics-vulture-067562.bmp

The Yams:

http://paulbernal.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/rise-from-grave.jpg

[Geo_1875]

Wouldn't forcing the sale of Tynie be more advantageous compared to a £4 million CVA?

Probably but I'm only comparing the bids on the table. Could all be ***** though as these are figures quoted by BAnderson.

[Sanger]

Surely if the Massone bid is £5 miliion then that doesn't mean the Liths will be getting £5 million? Do you not have to take into account the other creditors and BDO? Plus the Lithuanian side is two separate (albeit connected) debts?

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

[HibeeMG]

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

But will they really care how they look? It's not as if it will affect any business of theirs in this country.

[Hibs07p]

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

Would BDO's fees be subtracted first from any sum offered towards a CVA, or would they receive them from the creditors?

GGTTH

[God Petrie]

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

Argh you're getting soft on your previous "liquidation now" stance and seem to be favouring Massone.

[Spike Mandela]

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

you sound like you have changed your tune. Weren't you 100% sure they would get liquidated.:confused:

[Waxy]

I think the plan is to liquidate once the SPFL is underway.
They then will have a better chance of not being thrown out.

[Hibercelona]

But will they really care how they look? It's not as if it will affect any business of theirs in this country.

Precisely. :agree:

I have a feeling that the yam's "Lithuania love-in" is about to come to an abrupt end. :brokenyam:

[Liberal Hibby]

you sound like you have changed your tune. Weren't you 100% sure they would get liquidated.:confused:

Given they are likely to get at least £7 m for Tynie on the open market for redevelopment, then unless they come up with a couple of mill more then liquidation is surely still favourite.

[hibs0666]

Based on these bids it looks like the yams debt after administration will be somewhere around £8 million except, this time around, they'll actually be paying interest.

[Sanger]

you sound like you have changed your tune. Weren't you 100% sure they would get liquidated.:confused:
Eventually if Massone takes charge. In the next few weeks if he does not. Did not think anybody would come in with £5m upfront on the table. But the question is as I poised before does 5 star really have the money and what are the conditions they have laid down for the bid. BDO saying none of the bids acceptable. Probability wise I am still going 70% certainty of liquidation now against 100% later! Sit back and enjoy the ride!

[CropleyWasGod]

C'mon guys, a lot of you are basing your thoughts on what Barry Anderson says the bids are. That's not the most reliable of evidence.

As for the Record, I have my doubts about that amount too.

Get yerselves over to the Private Members' Forum. Here endeth the advert.

[Treadstone]

The beyond parody Ian 'I'm an MP' Murray latest Twitter offering.

Ian Murray MP ‏@IanMurrayMP (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP)38m (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/355990859323408386)
“@AcanthusHome (https://twitter.com/AcanthusHome): Acanthus Decorating Sale! Paint, paper, fabrics & lighting - over 50% off items! pic.twitter.com/7A0TTjFUn6 (http://t.co/7A0TTjFUn6)” gr8 local business.

:faf:

[Part/Time Supporter]

C'mon guys, a lot of you are basing your thoughts on what Barry Anderson says the bids are. That's not the most reliable of evidence.

As for the Record, I have my doubts about that amount too.

Get yerselves over to the Private Members' Forum. Here endeth the advert.

Barry's numbers most likely include all sorts of caveats and conditions of the "we'll pay you x now, y later and z if Hearts stay up / win the cup / qualify for Europe" variety. That was the impression I took when Jackson explained why the bids as made this week would not be acceptable to the Lithuanians.

For context, the offer made by the Blue Knights for Rangers included a payment of £2M if Rangers reached the quarter finals of the Champions League.

No, really.

:cb

[Treadstone]

Barry's numbers most likely include all sorts of caveats and conditions of the "we'll pay you x now, y later and z if Hearts stay up / win the cup / qualify for Europe" variety. That was the impression I took when Jackson explained why the bids as made this week would not be acceptable to the Lithuanians.

For context, the offer made by the Blue Knights for Rangers included a payment of £2M if Rangers reached the quarter finals of the Champions League.

No, really.

:cb

Damn you PTS. Got me thinking, who were the last Scottish team to do it ? Dundee Utd - 1984. I'm away to check.

[Hibercelona]

The beyond parody Ian 'I'm an MP' Murray latest Twitter offering.

Ian Murray MP ‏@IanMurrayMP (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP)38m (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/355990859323408386)
“@AcanthusHome (https://twitter.com/AcanthusHome): Acanthus Decorating Sale! Paint, paper, fabrics & lighting - over 50% off items! pic.twitter.com/7A0TTjFUn6 (http://t.co/7A0TTjFUn6)” gr8 local business.

:faf:

Ian Black will be chuffed about that. Over 50% off his work tools.

[The Falcon]

Argh you're getting soft on your previous "liquidation now" stance and seem to be favouring Massone.


you sound like you have changed your tune. Weren't you 100% sure they would get liquidated.:confused:

Thats my worry.:confused:

And as CWG said £x would go to the secured and £y would go towards a CVA. Allisbarry has Massone bidding £4m, not £5m, which would reduce the pot to both parties considerably, less BDO's fees. And the new owner also picks up any cash that BDO has raised? Is that right?

I also assume that "working capital" does not benefit the creditors 1p but benefits Hearts greatly.

[CropleyWasGod]

Barry's numbers most likely include all sorts of caveats and conditions of the "we'll pay you x now, y later and z if Hearts stay up / win the cup / qualify for Europe" variety. That was the impression I took when Jackson explained why the bids as made this week would not be acceptable to the Lithuanians.

For context, the offer made by the Blue Knights for Rangers included a payment of £2M if Rangers reached the quarter finals of the Champions League.

No, really.

:cb

Yeah. The £5m quoted may be a headline figure, but only if all of the above etc etc.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

I think the plan is to liquidate once the SPFL is underway.
They then will have a better chance of not being thrown out.

certainly would be the Hearts way. More clubs going in administration will no doubt follow the same jammy routes in future.

[Sanger]

Given they are likely to get at least £7 m for Tynie on the open market for redevelopment, then unless they come up with a couple of mill more then liquidation is surely still favourite.
I've seen a valuation of £4.5m tops for Tynie. It's a buy and hold when property prices are falling in Edinburgh and plenty of more attractive sites and empty new builds. £7m way to high.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Damn you PTS. Got me thinking, who were the last Scottish team to do it ? Dundee Utd - 1984. I'm away to check.

Huns in 92/93 played in the (first ever) Champions League groups, which were 2 groups of 4 with the winners progressing to the final. Huns finished second to Sauzee's Marseille.

[greenginger]

Barry's numbers most likely include all sorts of caveats and conditions of the "we'll pay you x now, y later and z if Hearts stay up / win the cup / qualify for Europe" variety. That was the impression I took when Jackson explained why the bids as made this week would not be acceptable to the Lithuanians.

For context, the offer made by the Blue Knights for Rangers included a payment of £2M if Rangers reached the quarter finals of the Champions League.

No, really.

:cb

Why would the Liths. be interested in any way ,shape or form, in the amount the new owners are going to put in to run the Club after they have retied back to Lithland with a few pennies in exchange for the £ 70 odd million Ukio Bankas are down on the deal when Vlad decided to buy Hearts.

The Liths should play hardball. FOH are in this to save Hearts so tell them its £ 2million for the Club and a 2 year lease on the ground and then it goes on the open market. Plenty time to establish the true possibilities for the site and time for FOH to raise cash for the purchase price or to have sold their cream of Scottish youth to Chelsea, PSG or whoever.

[Treadstone]

Huns in 92/93 played in the (first ever) Champions League groups, which were 2 groups of 4 with the winners progressing to the final. Huns finished second to Sauzee's Marseille.

Definitely not counting this. The Huns as they were then, won two games due to fluke goals in the group. The 'away' game against CSKA played in Germany i think. Everything went for them that year and still greeting their eyes oot about Tapie.:cb

[Liberal Hibby]

I've seen a valuation of £4.5m tops for Tynie. It's a buy and hold when property prices are falling in Edinburgh and plenty of more attractive sites and empty new builds. £7m way to high.

Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?

[CropleyWasGod]

Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?

If the "other advert" is genuine, BDO have been testing that market. Perhaps that's a tactical move, to show the Liths how much they might expect on the open market.

[Sanger]

Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?
Down 3.7% in the last quarter! They have already done this through the BDO advert.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/qp.stm

[Waxy]

certainly would be the Hearts way. More clubs going in administration will no doubt follow the same jammy routes in future.Surely there has to be a rule about being liquidated during the season?

[Gus Fring]

Barry's figures are wrong. I wasn't given the working capital figures yesterday but the CVA money is way out. Every one of them is higher than the figure I was told and I've no reason to doubt my source as he's been bang on about everything thus far. What's laughable is even Barry's exaggerated numbers are unlikely to save Hearts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Down 3.7% in the last quarter! They have already done this through the BDO advert.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/qp.stm

Is it genuine, though? People I know, who have responded to it, have had no feedback from BDO.

If it is genuine, the deadline was yesterday. What response was there to it?

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely there has to be a rule about being liquidated during the season?

If a company that owns a club is liquidated, it ceases to be. It is an ex-company.

[Treadstone]

Barry's figures are wrong. I wasn't given the working capital figures yesterday but the CVA money is way out. Every one of them is higher than the figure I was told and I've no reason to doubt my source as he's been bang on about everything thus far. What's laughable is even Barry's exaggerated numbers are unlikely to save Hearts.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-administration-financial-detail-of-bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.



Foundation of Hearts’ offer totals £5.75 million, including £2m to fund a Creditors’ Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). The remaining £3.75m would come from fans. The Foundation calculate that cash pledges from around 5700 fans at an average of £18.50 per month can be used as working capital to run Hearts for the next three years.

[Gus Fring]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-administration-financial-detail-of-bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

The whole FOH bid is massively flawed. What Barry doesn't take in to account is that some of that Direct Debit money has to be used to pay back the CVA money to the people who loaned it to FOH in the first place and there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work.

[Makaveli]

I wonder if Banderson will end up being held partially culpable for their demise?

His endless allisbarry chat is funny to us, but they actually believe it! Complacency born of his "there are no tanks in Baghdad" lies is going to kill them.

From the Wonga million to these vastly inflated figures, the average Hearts fan who only reads the papers thinks that things are a lot less serious than they are.

Cheers Baz, you total roaster.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-administration-financial-detail-of-bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right. :rolleyes:

[DevonLoch]

I actually thought BJ was quite impressive here though the alacrity with which he said NO was pleasing. :wink: It really only serves to confirm my impression though that BDO are p-ing in the wind for now. They're working their way through the standard admin template, making a decent fist of it, keeping themselves busy & justifying their fees but they know that someone's parked a great big submarine across the road ahead & TBH I don't think they have a clue (understandably) how to proceed beyond that point. Happy days!
ps, he really does have a cadaverous look!

Definitely a touch of the reaper about him!


10504

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts-administration-financial-detail-of-bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.


Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

The FT ad was for the business and assets of Hearts, ie to continue as a football club.

It's only if the offers on that basis fall well short of expectations will they seriously explore the option of selling it on a break-up basis.

[Treadstone]

The whole FOH bid is massively flawed. What Barry doesn't take in to account is that some of that Direct Debit money has to be used to pay back the CVA money to the people who loaned it to FOH in the first place and there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work.


So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right. :rolleyes:

Thanks guys. Thought i was missing something. No author on article but Bandersons fingerprints all over it.

[BarneyK]

at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

They wouldn't be killing the club, just relieving them of their stadium. They're talking about moving anyway and you can just bet once all this - "It's only worth a pittance" - is done with and they've bought it for said pittance, they'll be trying to sell it for a bundle to help finance their new stadium somewhere new.

[Gatecrasher]

wonder how much the prize money is for winning the administration cup :tee hee:

[Sanger]

Is it genuine, though? People I know, who have responded to it, have had no feedback from BDO.

If it is genuine, the deadline was yesterday. What response was there to it?
BDO will gave put there feelers out as well as the bidders as to what is market price of Tynie that is the basis for the value of their bids as they know that is the benchmark.

[Treadstone]

It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.

Realistic in the sense its what they think they can afford. There must be serious doubts about 5000+ pledgers over three years. They would probably have to pay the person(s), who ponied up the original £2m, back during that time period as well, wouldn't want to wait beyond that if i was the original lender.

Has Massone possibly appealed to the seller by just giving a figure as i don't see why they would be interested in working capital unless its linked to the bid. ie your previous post with conditions for more money to be paid over an agreed period of time ?

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO will gave put there feelers out as well as the bidders as to what is market price of Tynie that is the basis for the value of their bids as they know that is the benchmark.

You didn't answer the question :greengrin

If I knew the answer to it, I might have a better feel for what their tactics are.

[greenginger]

If BDO were serious in their efforts to get offers for the land only they would have advertised it a bit more prominently than they have.

If it was'nt for Hibs.net I would have been totally unaware of the potential asset sale and I don't suppose we are the first point of contact for parties interested in 7acres of city centre land.

I dare say BDO can wire back the Lith admin. and tell him there had been no interest in the land only despite it being advertised. I wonder if BDO even bothered to drop a private note to Companies and agents who might be interested.

[CropleyWasGod]

If BDO were serious in their efforts to get offers for the land only they would have advertised it a bit more prominently than they have.

If it was'nt for Hibs.net I would have been totally unaware of the potential asset sale and I don't suppose we are the first point of contact for parties interested in 7acres of city centre land.

I dare say BDO can wire back the Lith admin. and tell him there had been no interest in the land only despite it being advertised. I wonder if BDO even bothered to drop a private note to Companies and agents who might be interested.

Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

[greenginger]

Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.

[CropleyWasGod]

If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.

Why has no-one asked?
:greengrin

I think Hibs.net should be at the next BDO press conference.

[Dunderhall]

If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.
How do we know they haven't.
No one knows the context of each bid.

[greenginger]

Why has no-one asked?
:greengrin

I think Hibs.net should be at the next BDO press conference.


Better still can someone not communicate with the Lith. Admins. and hint that their appointees are not trying hard enough. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

How do we know they haven't.
No one knows the context of each bid.

Indeed.

Like I say, maybe the right questions aren't being asked.

[CropleyWasGod]

The FT ad was for the business and assets of Hearts, ie to continue as a football club.

It's only if the offers on that basis fall well short of expectations will they seriously explore the option of selling it on a break-up basis.

I know that, but my question was about whether it was a genuine ad.

The closing date for offers in that ad was yesterday. I know of two enquiries, neither of whom have had acknowledgements or responses from BDO.

If it's genuine, I can understand why they put it out there. I'm unconvinced, though.

[YehButNoBut]

Just wondering if Hearts are liquidated, which is looking more likely by the day, should we wear the black strip for the rest of the season as a mark of respect.

Just a suggestion. :greengrin

[jdships]

Bajillions

[B] "..........there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work @ /B].[/QUOTE]

Spot on !!
As I have posted on here earlier I have Jambo mates who don't intend leaving the DD in place after 31st December 2013 .
@ Club has to be run as a business ' is their take on the situation
To be honest for the ordinary guy in the street like most of us on here there are far too many imponderables re the debts to the Lithuanians to be able to make any real forecast as to what will happen in the short to mid term

:rolleyes:

[Hibercelona]

SSN reporting on who's bidding for them followed by Real Madrid paying £34m for an under 21 international. Is it any wonder the games ****ed?

Hearts are ****ed, so it all balances itself out in the end. :cb

[Seveno]

I know that, but my question was about whether it was a genuine ad.

The closing date for offers in that ad was yesterday. I know of two enquiries, neither of whom have had acknowledgements or responses from BDO.

If it's genuine, I can understand why they put it out there. I'm unconvinced, though.

Who would bother to take the time and expense of placing a fake advert and why ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Who would bother to take the time and expense of placing a fake advert and why ?

..which is the other question that's been bugging me :greengrin

When I first raised my question, it was because it had been seen on BusinessesForSale.com, which is free. At that time, I didn't realise that it was in the FT.... when I realised that, my suspicions eased.

Until this week when, as I say, I know of two enquiries.... etc etc.

Factor into that the misleading statements in the ad......

[Deansy]

It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.

This is what I don't get - the piddling amounts (allegedly) being offered when, in reality, they've had an amount of money poured into them that's a lot more than this much-vaunted £25m. Doesn't the 'Debt-for-Equity' deals take the actual amount of hard, physical cash to approximately £60m ??. If I'd given someone a loan of £60 and all they offered back was £2, I'd be looking to give that someone a boot in the plums - i.e - Sell their property ??

[Barrabus]

So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right. :rolleyes:
They've still got to pay £500,000 to HMRC in both May 2014 & May 2015 have they not?

[Part/Time Supporter]

They've still got to pay £500,000 to HMRC in both May 2014 & May 2015 have they not?

Nope, that tax debt disappeared into the black hole.

[Springbank]

Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

[Barrabus]

Nope, that tax debt disappeared into the black hole.
It was a "payment by instalments" agreement - surely if the company is still trading then the debt is still due? Can't see HMRC taking this lying down - it's £1m we're talking about here after all!

[Zondervan]

This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?

[Part/Time Supporter]

It was a "payment by instalments" agreement - surely if the company is still trading then the debt is still due? Can't see HMRC taking this lying down - it's £1m we're talking about here after all!

No. They would get a vote in any CVA proposal, but the likelihood is that they wouldn't be able to block any proposal. It's up to the Lithuanians. Truth is that if they get as far as a CVA being tabled it would almost certainly pass because they would have agreed it in advance with the main creditors.


This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?

As far as I can tell, UKIO are secured and UBIG are unsecured. UBIG were secured, but that security was transferred to Ukio along with some of the debt last year.

[Islington Hibs]

Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

If it has planning permission it is easily worth £10m but it currently does not have planning permission and you can imagine how toxic getting permission might be. So I am not surprised CALA have not come back yet.

[weecounty hibby]

If it has planning permission it is easily worth £10m but it currently does not have planning permission and you can imagine how toxic getting permission might be. So I am not surprised CALA have not come back yet.
I disagree. If it is sold off to a developer then it will get planning permission easily. There is no way that the council would want to have a derelict pile of junk in the middle of the city sitting there doing nothing and rotting into an even bigger mess than it is now. At least at the moment the derelict pile of junk has a football club playing there, although hopefully not for much longer

[Jack]

What surprises me most is the FOH bid, although maybe not considering their inept performance so far.

£2m, even double that, is a derisory amount for the club they seemingly hold in such high regard. Its hardly worth BDO even discussing it with them.

Was it just chat on here, or maybe I imagined it, that BDO dropped hints they'd be looking for around £10m? i.e. the amounts being discussed above as land value.

[londonhibby]

Thanks guys. Thought i was missing something. No author on article but Bandersons fingerprints all over it.

Wasn't AllisBarry, he's on holiday at the moment.:wink:

[Dunderhall]

Wasn't AllisBarry, he's on holiday at the moment.:wink:
He's back twatting though, maybe not allowed to put his name to anything yet in order for it not to be discredited straight away.

He did the usual EEN twat tease just before lunchtime.

[TrinityHibs]

Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

I missed that one. What site are you referring to?

[Dashing Bob S]

Now that Hearts have won the first silverware of the season, in the form of the Administration Cup, I wonder if we can expect to see them immediately use the riches conferred and splash out on new players?

[Hibs07p]

He's back twatting though, maybe not allowed to put his name to anything yet in order for it not to be discredited straight away.

He did the usual EEN twat tease just before lunchtime.

#allisbarry is named in the paper edition.


GGTTH

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Looks like things are looking up for them after their outstanding performance in todays begging bowl cup to lift the famous trophy and a share of the gate money fron the whopping 4000 crowd

[greenginger]

What surprises me most is the FOH bid, although maybe not considering their inept performance so far.

£2m, even double that, is a derisory amount for the club they seemingly hold in such high regard. Its hardly worth BDO even discussing it with them.

Was it just chat on here, or maybe I imagined it, that BDO dropped hints they'd be looking for around £10m? i.e. the amounts being discussed above as land value.

There will have to be an allowance made for un-secured creditors say 10% = £200,000 and BDO's fees ( £800,000 ? ) would also come out of the £ 2 million.

Anyone think the Liths will happily accept £ 1 million.

[lord bunberry]

I noticed there was a bumper 4500 at the administration cip match today. After costs are deducted there won't be much left

[Sanger]

This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?
They get a vote in line with how much their debt exceeds the value if the assets the debt is secured on. So £20m (25 - 5) if the whole if HMFC and stadium worth £5m. That is they would be more than 75% of the vote.

[Seveno]

..which is the other question that's been bugging me :greengrin

When I first raised my question, it was because it had been seen on BusinessesForSale.com, which is free. At that time, I didn't realise that it was in the FT.... when I realised that, my suspicions eased.

Until this week when, as I say, I know of two enquiries.... etc etc.

Factor into that the misleading statements in the ad......

And those two enquiries are.......?

[Dunderhall]

#allisbarry is named in the paper edition.


GGTTH
So definitely cack then. :agree:


And those two enquiries are.......?
Would have been three if Sidney hadn't used 2nd class stamps.

[Ship Hibs]

Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

[Mr White]

Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

A little from column a, a little from column c mate!

[Sanger]

They get a vote in line with how much their debt exceeds the value if the assets the debt is secured on. So £20m (25 - 5) if the whole if HMFC and stadium worth £5m. That is they would be more than 75% of the vote.
Of course this depends on what value HMFC is given but that should match the the highest bid (£4-5 million). Also is the £10 million UBIG debt secured? My feeling is no as the shares they hold come from the debt to equity conversions. This still leaves Ukio Bankas with £10m of debt (15m -5m) in a CVA vote so unless the remaining unsecured debt exceed £3.33m they will have more than 75% of any CVA vote.

[Geo_1875]

Of course this depends on what value HMFC is given but that should match the the highest bid (£4-5 million). Also is the £10 million UBIG debt secured? My feeling is no as the shares they hold come from the debt to equity conversions. This still leaves Ukio Bankas with £10m of debt (15m -5m) in a CVA vote so unless the remaining unsecured debt exceed £3.33m they will have more than 75% of any CVA vote.

Is the widely quoted £25m owed to UBIG/Ukio a final confirmed figure? Is it possible that the Lithuanian authorities could decide the debt for equity swaps and debt write offs were dodgy and reverse them somehow?

[Dashing Bob S]

Is the widely quoted £25m owed to UBIG/Ukio a final confirmed figure? Is it possible that the Lithuanian authorities could decide the debt for equity swaps and debt write offs were dodgy and reverse them somehow?

That would be fun!

I would have thought, when they start following the money coming in and out of that group of companies, this and many more issues will be flagged up.

[Treadstone]

Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

Original.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/179119_10152053162191562_515326815_n.jpg

[Sergey]

They get a vote in line with how much their debt exceeds the value if the assets the debt is secured on. So £20m (25 - 5) if the whole if HMFC and stadium worth £5m. That is they would be more than 75% of the vote.


It's not that simple an equation.

Lithuanian insolvency/bankruptcy law is different to what we have here in the UK. UBIG's creditors are now embroiled in the HoMFC administration process. This isn't simply going to be a 'takeitorleaveit' by/to UBIG's administrators. There's a myriad of legal procedures to be undertaken in LT before any transfer of debt can take place....and I'm not talking weeks or months here.

[Hibs Class]

Now that Hearts have won the first silverware of the season, in the form of the Administration Cup, I wonder if we can expect to see them immediately use the riches conferred and splash out on new players?

Have they melted down the trophy yet, or are they taking it straight to Cash Convertors?

[Fat Penlon]

It's not that simple an equation.

Lithuanian insolvency/bankruptcy law is different to what we have here in the UK. UBIG's creditors are now embroiled in the HoMFC administration process. This isn't simply going to be a 'takeitorleaveit' by/to UBIG's administrators. There's a myriad of legal procedures to be undertaken in LT before any transfer of debt can take place....and I'm not talking weeks or months here.

If that's the case and I don't doubt you why are we even debating what might or could happen? If this is true their only option is newco as BDO won't have enough money to last the season.

[VickMackie]

I noticed there was a bumper 4500 at the administration cip match today. After costs are deducted there won't be much left

How much were the tickets?

[Sergey]

If that's the case and I don't doubt you why are we even debating what might or could happen? If this is true their only option is newco as BDO won't have enough money to last the season.

BDO have admitted that ownership of the shares and their transfer is somewhat complicated, that in itself should set the alarm bells ringing.

My personal feeling is that BDO won't be in a position to progress the preferred bidder into buyer status as there's way too much financial baggage between Ukio/UBIG/Goncaruk to conclude a deal in the foreseeable.

I'll put my head on the block and say that insolvency of HoMFC is inevitable.

[Col2]

BDO have admitted that ownership of the shares and their transfer is somewhat complicated, that in itself should set the alarm bells ringing.

My personal feeling is that BDO won't be in a position to progress the preferred bidder into buyer status as there's way too much financial baggage between Ukio/UBIG/Goncaruk to conclude a deal in the foreseeable.

I'll put my head on the block and say that insolvency of HoMFC is inevitable.

It's beginning to look that way. Comedy bids and bidders, no white knights, confusion / delay on UBIG shares, 3 bids confirmed flat out as not acceptable, yams run out of money in 2 months time, BDO probably starting to put more pressure on where there fees coming from and when (taxi meter still running and running).

[SmashinGlass]

BDO have admitted that ownership of the shares and their transfer is somewhat complicated, that in itself should set the alarm bells ringing.

My personal feeling is that BDO won't be in a position to progress the preferred bidder into buyer status as there's way too much financial baggage between Ukio/UBIG/Goncaruk to conclude a deal in the foreseeable.

I'll put my head on the block and say that insolvency of HoMFC is inevitable.

Bath of beans? :greengrin

[brog]

BDO have admitted that ownership of the shares and their transfer is somewhat complicated, that in itself should set the alarm bells ringing.

My personal feeling is that BDO won't be in a position to progress the preferred bidder into buyer status as there's way too much financial baggage between Ukio/UBIG/Goncaruk to conclude a deal in the foreseeable.

I'll put my head on the block and say that insolvency of HoMFC is inevitable.

Hey G, I said much the same earlier today. Basically said BDO were working through admin for dummies now but they have no idea how to circumvent that great big Russian submarine lying in their way! I think they're just keeping busy without any realistic hope of any resolution in the near future. They've stopped the patient bleeding but have no idea how to get him back on his feet. Nice!

[Dunderhall]

How much were the tickets?
£10 adults and £5 for concessions.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

We must be getting close to the stage where The Jambo's get a DNR notice slapped on their hospital chart.

[Sergey]

Hey G, I said much the same earlier today. Basically said BDO were working through admin for dummies now but they have no idea how to circumvent that great big Russian submarine lying in their way! I think they're just keeping busy without any realistic hope of any resolution in the near future. They've stopped the patient bleeding but have no idea how to get him back on his feet. Nice!

You've read what I've posted on the PM forum in recent months and that's from a contact that knows the score. BDO aren't in any sort of position to circumvent their way around the laws of Lithuania to suit Los Yambolinos and their motley bunch of muppets. The laws of the land are the laws of the land. This charade is simply that.

[blackpoolhibs]

You've read what I've posted on the PM forum in recent months and that's from a contact that knows the score. BDO aren't in any sort of position to circumvent their way around the laws of Lithuania to suit Los Yambolinos and their motley bunch of muppets. The laws of the land are the laws of the land. This charade is simply that.

Keep talking G, i'm nearly there. :not worth

[johnrebus]

Keep talking G, i'm nearly there. :not worth


****!

Too late over here.

Ach well. a J cloth and some hot water should do the trick.


:rolleyes:

[green is good]

The Evening News mentions a £2m funding gap while talking about the lack of working capital with Massone's bid. What does that mean for the FOH bid with £3.75m and Cloud 9 bid with £3.2m working capital to cover three years? Will this season swallow up £2m leaving FOH with £1.75m and Cloud 9 £1.2m to cover the following two seasons?

[Sergey]

The Evening News mentions a £2m funding gap while talking about the lack of working capital with Massone's bid. What does that mean for the FOH bid with £3.75m and Cloud 9 bid with £3.2m working capital to cover three years? Will this season swallow up £2m leaving FOH with £1.75m and Cloud 9 £1.2m to cover the following two seasons?

Don't worry yourself in juggling the figures as it's now a paradoxical situation and they're well and truly stymied.

Sit back and relax. Let Johnny Yam try to work it out.

:cheers:

[IWasThere2016]

BDO have admitted that ownership of the shares and their transfer is somewhat complicated, that in itself should set the alarm bells ringing.

My personal feeling is that BDO won't be in a position to progress the preferred bidder into buyer status as there's way too much financial baggage between Ukio/UBIG/Goncaruk to conclude a deal in the foreseeable.

I'll put my head on the block and say that insolvency of HoMFC is inevitable.

I'd lay my head beside you Sergey - I do not see anyother way out for them.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Was sitting outside Alexander Graham Bells yesterday listening to a table full of Yams discussing their situation. Its unbelievable how ignorant of the facts that lot are. It was as if the current UKIO/UBIG situation doesn't exist. They are in for a rude awakening soon methinks.

[PapillonVert]

The Evening News mentions a £2m funding gap while talking about the lack of working capital with Massone's bid. What does that mean for the FOH bid with £3.75m and Cloud 9 bid with £3.2m working capital to cover three years? Will this season swallow up £2m leaving FOH with £1.75m and Cloud 9 £1.2m to cover the following two seasons?

My non-financial-expert reading is that Massone wants to give the Lithuanians some cash to get his hands on the assets. Absence of working capital suggests he might not be interested in taking on HMFC as a business venture but merely wants to have the physical assets at this point. The other two need to keep some money back to keep the football business going - somehow.

Massone could acquire the assets, sell/give the football club to anyone interested whilst still having the physical assets either to rent to Newco HMFC whilst he gets planning permission to develop the site and then says "mille grazie" but "arriverderci" to HMFC for doing the business.

[Dashing Bob S]

Don't worry yourself in juggling the figures as it's now a paradoxical situation and they're well and truly stymied.

Sit back and relax. Let Johnny Yam try to work it out.

:cheers:

Capital advice, Sergey!

[Waxy]

Plain to see there is only one bidder with their best interests.
Pity for them the bids no where near enough.
Bye bye jam tarts.

[Sanger]

What the bidders are willing to pay for HMFC that counts. For FOH and Bob that''s £1.8 million which is obviously way below what Tynie would fetch if sold to a property developer. These are no goes.

It comes to what Massone and crew offer upfront which ranges from £4 to £5 million. BDO operating on behalf of creditors so don't care about working capital. Question is do they really have the money to put on table now? From Massone's past record the answer is no. But if he did BDO could sell all assets of current HMFC to a newco with Massone paying for them. The money is held in trust until Lithuanian situation is untangled. I think the SPfL would view this as a technical necessity to untangle HMFC from the Lithuanian knot and keep newco in top league. But very quickly newco would run into funding issues and liquidation follows.

More likely scenario is that Massone does produce the money or has too many conditions attached and Ukio Bankas having rejected CVA - see my earlier posts why I believe they will have more than 75% of vote - and liquidation then happens.

[greenginger]

You've read what I've posted on the PM forum in recent months and that's from a contact that knows the score. BDO aren't in any sort of position to circumvent their way around the laws of Lithuania to suit Los Yambolinos and their motley bunch of muppets. The laws of the land are the laws of the land. This charade is simply that.


Sergey, would it be worth dropping a note to your Lithuanian contact and let her know the derisory offers that have been made ( according to AllisBarry ) for the purchase of 7 acres of City Center real estate presently occupied by a worthless football team.

Tell her no attempt has been made to properly value the land and the sole concern of the Club's administrator seems to be to make sure the football club is OK and the tax payers of Lithuania can go and do one.

If she can get it out in the media over there perhaps some pressure can be applied to prevent a football club rip-off similar to last years asset sale scandal in Govan.

[Jack Hackett]

Sergey, would it be worth dropping a note to your Lithuanian contact and let her know the derisory offers that have been made ( according to AllisBarry ) for the purchase of 7 acres of City Center real estate presently occupied by a worthless football team.

Tell her no attempt has been made to properly value the land and the sole concern of the Club's administrator seems to be to make sure the football club is OK and the tax payers of Lithuania can go and do one.

If she can get it out in the media over there perhaps some pressure can be applied to prevent a football club rip-off similar to last years asset sale scandal in Govan.

Good plan. It's about time that Ukio's customers /investors were made aware of what these slimey ******s are trying to pull off

[greenginger]

What the bidders are willing to pay for HMFC that counts. For FOH and Bob that''s £1.8 million which is obviously way below what Tynie would fetch if sold to a property developer. These are no goes.

It comes to what Massone and crew offer upfront which ranges from £4 to £5 million. BDO operating on behalf of creditors so don't care about working capital. Question is do they really have the money to put on table now? From Massone's past record the answer is no. But if he did BDO could sell all assets of current HMFC to a newco with Massone paying for them. The money is held in trust until Lithuanian situation is untangled. I think the SPfL would view this as a technical necessity to untangle HMFC from the Lithuanian knot and keep newco in top league. But very quickly newco would run into funding issues and liquidation follows.

More likely scenario is that Massone does produce the money or has too many conditions attached and Ukio Bankas having rejected CVA - see my earlier posts why I believe they will have more than 75% of vote - and liquidation then happens.

I don't think BDO could sell any of HOMFC's secured assets without approval of the Lith. Admin.

[hibby67]

This is my first post on the whole situation ..I have been enjoying the daily updates and having a good laugh to myself reading about what the yams think will happen compared to the what will happen in reality....

But here is a question if they go down the liquidation and newco route the only real asset they have is the brand name or licence but who owns that ......
If say its UBIG how can that be sold if all assets are frozen ...
And where would that leave a newco trying to gain membership of the SPFL or div3

[Sergey]

What the bidders are willing to pay for HMFC that counts. For FOH and Bob that''s £1.8 million which is obviously way below what Tynie would fetch if sold to a property developer. These are no goes.


It comes to what Massone and crew offer upfront which ranges from £4 to £5 million. BDO operating on behalf of creditors so don't care about working capital. Question is do they really have the money to put on table now? From Massone's past record the answer is no. But if he did BDO could sell all assets of current HMFC to a newco with Massone paying for them. The money is held in trust until Lithuanian situation is untangled. I think the SPfL would view this as a technical necessity to untangle HMFC from the Lithuanian knot and keep newco in top league. But very quickly newco would run into funding issues and liquidation follows.

More likely scenario is that Massone does produce the money or has too many conditions attached and Ukio Bankas having rejected CVA- see my earlier posts why I believe they will have more than 75% of vote - and liquidation then happens.

Do BDO have the assets to sell?

NO!

END - OF - STORY.

[ano hibby]

Big leap but assume Massone is preferred bidder & Liths accept. If it is then decided (SPFL?) that he is not fit & proper person...what happens next?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Big leap but assume Massone is preferred bidder & Liths accept. If it is then decided (SPFL?) that he is not fit & proper person...what happens next?


after his antics at livi i can't see how it's possible for him to pass any 'fit & proper' p@sh, even by the halfwits that run the game in this country(the ones that make up new rules as and when any problem pops up) said it before and i'l say it again....liquidate the manky maroons :agree:

[s.a.m]

Big leap but assume Massone is preferred bidder & Liths accept. If it is then decided (SPFL?) that he is not fit & proper person...what happens next?

I've been wondering about this myself. As others have said, it's the Clubs' responsibility to ensure that their people* are 'fit and proper', with penalties for Clubs who don't. Last year (which feels like an awfy long time ago, on our football finance degree course....:greengrin), Rangers - I think, rather than the miscreant himself - were fined because of Craig Whyte's bankruptcy record. Does anyone know if Massone has a financial history that rules him out - I don't remember the ins and outs of the Livingston situation, other than he left a disaster behind him? If so, could he get round the problem by not being an office-bearer?

[JDHibs]

Who cares about the specifics...there ****ed

[mutley]

Who cares about the specifics...there ****ed

This 😃

[Geo_1875]

I'd lay my head beside you Sergey - I do not see anyother way out for them.

Get a room you two :)

[greenginger]

Big leap but assume Massone is preferred bidder & Liths accept. If it is then decided (SPFL?) that he is not fit & proper person...what happens next?


Vlad was never on Heart's board and I'm sure Massone could get some stooges to form a board and have their strings pulled.

[PapillonVert]

Big leap but assume Massone is preferred bidder & Liths accept. If it is then decided (SPFL?) that he is not fit & proper person...what happens next?

If his aim is to get his mitts on the physical assets (i.e. land) then what does he care whether he is a fit & proper person to run a football club?

His offer is 100% for a CVA, 0% for working capital suggesting he ain't interested in the on-going business.

[CropleyWasGod]

What the bidders are willing to pay for HMFC that counts. For FOH and Bob that''s £1.8 million which is obviously way below what Tynie would fetch if sold to a property developer. These are no goes.

It comes to what Massone and crew offer upfront which ranges from £4 to £5 million. BDO operating on behalf of creditors so don't care about working capital. Question is do they really have the money to put on table now? From Massone's past record the answer is no. But if he did BDO could sell all assets of current HMFC to a newco with Massone paying for them. The money is held in trust until Lithuanian situation is untangled. I think the SPfL would view this as a technical necessity to untangle HMFC from the Lithuanian knot and keep newco in top league. But very quickly newco would run into funding issues and liquidation follows.

More likely scenario is that Massone does produce the money or has too many conditions attached and Ukio Bankas having rejected CVA - see my earlier posts why I believe they will have more than 75% of vote - and liquidation then happens.

That would be a Sevco situation. There would be no chance of the SPFL allowing them to stay in the top league.

And, for the record, BDO should be concerned about the working capital of the business. One of their 3 statutory purposes is to "rescue the company as a going concern." That can't be done without regard to the working capital.


This is my first post on the whole situation ..I have been enjoying the daily updates and having a good laugh to myself reading about what the yams think will happen compared to the what will happen in reality....

But here is a question if they go down the liquidation and newco route the only real asset they have is the brand name or licence but who owns that ......
If say its UBIG how can that be sold if all assets are frozen ...
And where would that leave a newco trying to gain membership of the SPFL or div3

Hearts own that.

If it's sold through a CVA, the new owners take it on.

If it's sold to a Newco, it's a Sevco situation. The Newco has to apply to join the SPFL and the SFA, as neither memberships are transferable.


If his aim is to get his mitts on the physical assets (i.e. land) then what does he care whether he is a fit & proper person to run a football club?

His offer is 100% for a CVA, 0% for working capital suggesting he ain't interested in the on-going business.

Coming in late here, but is it? I can't see how it would be 100% for a CVA and nothing for the secured creditor(s).


Sergey, would it be worth dropping a note to your Lithuanian contact and let her know the derisory offers that have been made ( according to AllisBarry ) for the purchase of 7 acres of City Center real estate presently occupied by a worthless football team.

Tell her no attempt has been made to properly value the land and the sole concern of the Club's administrator seems to be to make sure the football club is OK and the tax payers of Lithuania can go and do one.

If she can get it out in the media over there perhaps some pressure can be applied to prevent a football club rip-off similar to last years asset sale scandal in Govan.

Given that BDO were proposed by Lithuanians, they probably know already.

Given, too, that UKIO and UBIG have an effective veto over the whole deal, they will definitely know soon.


And those two enquiries are.......?

Sorry, can't say. Confidentiality etc.

The content isn't really important, though. It's the lack of response that is surprising.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Do BDO have the assets to sell?

NO!

END - OF - STORY.

That isn't quite correct. It's the assets of UBIG that are frozen. HMFC Ltd itself isn't frozen by this order, but it does include the shares in HMFC Ltd owned by UBIG. If the Lithuanian legal process prevents those shares from being sold anytime soon, a way around that issue would be for BDO to sell the Hearts business and assets from HMFC Ltd to a Hearts newco.

That's what (eventually) happened with Portsmouth, which was financially controlled by another failed Lithuanian bank. BDO are hoping that this won't be the case with Hearts, because the potential punishment for going down the newco route is far greater in Scotland than it is in England. Therefore they have to work on the basis that the UBIG shares will be made available, at least in the initial process.

[Onion]

If his aim is to get his mitts on the physical assets (i.e. land) then what does he care whether he is a fit & proper person to run a football club?

His offer is 100% for a CVA, 0% for working capital suggesting he ain't interested in the on-going business.

:agree:

[Sanger]

I don't think BDO could sell any of HOMFC's secured assets without approval of the Lith. Admin.
The decision to create a newco would be made in conjunction with Lith admins. It has probably been agreed already. Why else would BDO float it. And us way to get round the Lith impasse. That is why a newco would be viewed differently from Sevco. A HMFC newco if agreed by all parties would be a technical way round the Lith situation. If Ukio (see why they would control vote in my earlier posts)then agree to CVA where they get 90% plus of the offer then effectively HMFC could come out of administration even under the technical newco. But that would need a cash offer in the region of £4-£5 million upfront which is highly unlikely which is why I think it will go liquidation with money put in trust for when Lith situation unravels.

[grunt]

That is why a newco would be viewed differently from Sevco. This makes no sense to me at all. Viewed differently by who? Do you mean by SFA / SPFL? If not, then who?

[ScottB]

Rangers would rightly go ballistic if a newco Hearts kept its league position. Regardless of whatever situation of their own making.

Bottom of the SPFL structure for them. Not that I believe there is time left for a newco to form prior to the seasons start now anyway.

[Caversham Green]

I've been a bit out of circulation for the last few weeks, and probably will be again for the coming week, but here's some observations on the current position:

First, the distribution of administration funds would take the following priority:

BDO's fees - they wouldn't do the work if they weren't likely to be paid in full
Secured creditors in full up to the extent of their debt. They would normally expect to be paid in full or take the whole of the balance of the funds after the administrator's fees. They could however come to an agreement outwith the CVA or even leave their security in place post-CVA. That's unlikely to happen in this case given the Liths' own financial status.
Unsecured creditors - I've learnt during the course of this thread that this includes any 'secured' debt that exceeds the value of the secured asset, which means the Liths will dominate any CVA vote.
As Sergey keeps saying, the Liths' own current situation is the overriding factor in any CVA process - Ukio have an absolute duty to obtain as much as possible from the process, while UBIG may not even have the legal capacity to vote as things stand since they are in a state of limbo.

On to the offers as reported by The Scotsman.

FoH - The reporting of this looks confused to me - it tells us where the £2m is going to, but not where it's coming from and then tells us where the £3.75 is coming from but is sketchy on where it's going to. In any case, the creditors are only going to be interested in the £2m and will consider whether that is enough to satisfy points 1. and 2. above. BDO are duty bound to consider the future working capital requirements of the club if it is going to exit administration intact. That will include the likelihood of collecting the pledges from the plums.
HMFC Ltd - The report suggests that this bid is inferior to FoH's, but the working capital figure looks to be more solid that the spurious pledges offered by FoH. The same considerations still apply for acceptance though.
Five Stars Football Ltd - This is being presented as a personal bid by the disgraced former owner of twice-in-administration Livingston and reportedly makes no provision for future working capital needs. If true, BDO would have to present it as a liquidation offer as the club could not exit administration as a going concern. It's also the offer that the creditors are most likely to accept (if they're in a position to do so) since it gives them twice as much as the next best offer.

Given the standard of reporting throughout this saga I have no doubt that there is more to each of these offers than has been reported and do not necessarily believe the figures quoted are accurate.

[Waxy]

Having to form a newco means your club has become defunct. That's it. End of history etc. Forming a Newco means you must start at the bottom from a new beginning. Still baffles me how The rangers got back in. Corruption and rule bending all over the place. The Jambos would find it more difficult me thinks. Why didn't St Bernards, Third Lanark not just form newcos back when the world was black and white?

[greenginger]

Is there really a necessity for additional working capital to keep the good ship Yam afloat ?

The shortfall is based on BDO/David Southern's projected spending. A real cut and burn policy could keep the club ticking over on expenditure similar to Morton.

Or,

Massone may be able to introduce Yam F C to an Italian Bank which could provide them borrowing facilities, underwritten by Massone and his backers.

Note. Failure to repay this type of loan may result in something more painful than a 15 point deduction. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

Cosa Nostra 1 New Hertz 0

[Jack]

If his aim is to get his mitts on the physical assets (i.e. land) then what does he care whether he is a fit & proper person to run a football club?

His offer is 100% for a CVA, 0% for working capital suggesting he ain't interested in the on-going business.

Massone has a history of not paying for electricity, ground rent, or players hence there being no need for working capital. ;)

[aDONis]

I've been a bit out of circulation for the last few weeks, and probably will be again for the coming week, but here's some observations on the current position:

First, the distribution of administration funds would take the following priority:

BDO's fees - they wouldn't do the work if they weren't likely to be paid in full
Secured creditors in full up to the extent of their debt. They would normally expect to be paid in full or take the whole of the balance of the funds after the administrator's fees. They could however come to an agreement outwith the CVA or even leave their security in place post-CVA. That's unlikely to happen in this case given the Liths' own financial status.
Unsecured creditors - I've learnt during the course of this thread that this includes any 'secured' debt that exceeds the value of the secured asset, which means the Liths will dominate any CVA vote.

As Sergey keeps saying, the Liths' own current situation is the overriding factor in any CVA process - Ukio have an absolute duty to obtain as much as possible from the process, while UBIG may not even have the legal capacity to vote as things stand since they are in a state of limbo.

On to the offers as reported by The Scotsman.

FoH - The reporting of this looks confused to me - it tells us where the £2m is going to, but not where it's coming from and then tells us where the £3.75 is coming from but is sketchy on where it's going to. In any case, the creditors are only going to be interested in the £2m and will consider whether that is enough to satisfy points 1. and 2. above. BDO are duty bound to consider the future working capital requirements of the club if it is going to exit administration intact. That will include the likelihood of collecting the pledges from the plums.
HMFC Ltd - The report suggests that this bid is inferior to FoH's, but the working capital figure looks to be more solid that the spurious pledges offered by FoH. The same considerations still apply for acceptance though.
Five Stars Football Ltd - This is being presented as a personal bid by the disgraced former owner of twice-in-administration Livingston and reportedly makes no provision for future working capital needs. If true, BDO would have to present it as a liquidation offer as the club could not exit administration as a going concern. It's also the offer that the creditors are most likely to accept (if they're in a position to do so) since it gives them twice as much as the next best offer.

Given the standard of reporting throughout this saga I have no doubt that there is more to each of these offers than has been reported and do not necessarily believe the figures quoted are accurate.

Hi Cav

There was a very interesting statement by Bryan Jackson at BDO's first formal press conference.

He made two (interlinked) things very clear, that nobody seems to have given much thought to;

1) BDO won't be getting paid from any ongoing working capital raised from the fans/tickets/merchandise etc.
2) BDO fees were entirely linked to a 'satisfactory return on the sale of Tynecastle' (may not be a direct quote, but he made it clear that the sale proceeds from the stadium were key to how/if BDO got paid).

Unfortunately, I can't find the unedited press conference but it's what he said.

This strikes me this would drive behavior where the best return is focused on the sale of assets and not the going concern.

Thoughts?

Yours
aDONis

[PapillonVert]

Massone has a history of not paying for electricity, ground rent, or players hence there being no need for working capital. ;)

Or as they say on the boulevards of la belle France whilst shrugging their shoulders, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

[CropleyWasGod]

The decision to create a newco would be made in conjunction with Lith admins. It has probably been agreed already. Why else would BDO float it. And us way to get round the Lith impasse. That is why a newco would be viewed differently from Sevco. A HMFC newco if agreed by all parties would be a technical way round the Lith situation. If Ukio (see why they would control vote in my earlier posts)then agree to CVA where they get 90% plus of the offer then effectively HMFC could come out of administration even under the technical newco. But that would need a cash offer in the region of £4-£5 million upfront which is highly unlikely which is why I think it will go liquidation with money put in trust for when Lith situation unravels.

Sorry, I can't agree with that at all. The SFA and SPL set a precedent with Sevco, and they would have to follow that in Hearts case.

In a liquidation, why would the money be put into trust? The assets are sold, and the proceeds distributed in accordance with normal liquidation procedures. Liquidators etc, followed by secured, followed by unsecured, followed by shareholders. There would be nothing left for the shareholders, so the unravelling of the holdings would have no relevance.

[jdships]

Is there really a necessity for additional working capital to keep the good ship Yam afloat ?

The shortfall is based on BDO/David Southern's projected spending. A real cut and burn policy could keep the club ticking over on expenditure similar to Morton.

Or,

Massone may be able to introduce Yam F C to an Italian Bank which could provide them borrowing facilities, underwritten by Massone and his backers.

Note. Failure to repay this type of loan may result in something more painful than a 15 point deduction. :greengrin



Regardless the nature of the business " cash Flow" is arguably one of the most important facets of forming a company and remains so throughout its life .
" Buying " HFC is the simple part . If they intend to be successful in major terms investment / sponsorship and continued support is all important to provide as you call it " working capital "
I have a friend who is a Director of a Third Division club in Scotland and he and all his fellow Directors pay in a sum every month to pay gas/electricity bills and to maintain a decent " cash flow "

[hibeesjoe]

If Hearts get liquidated and turned into a newco after the season starts what does the spfl do? Will they be told that it doesn't matter where they finish in the table at the end of the season it's of to div3 for them