Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CropleyWasGod]

Hi Cav

There was a very interesting statement by Bryan Jackson at BDO's first formal press conference.

He made two (interlinked) things very clear, that nobody seems to have given much thought to;

1) BDO won't be getting paid from any ongoing working capital raised from the fans/tickets/merchandise etc.
2) BDO fees were entirely linked to a 'satisfactory return on the sale of Tynecastle' (may not be a direct quote, but he made it clear that the sale proceeds from the stadium were key to how/if BDO got paid).

Unfortunately, I can't find the unedited press conference but it's what he said.

This strikes me this would drive behavior where the best return is focused on the sale of assets and not the going concern.

Thoughts?

Yours
aDONis

Early in the discussions, I had a cut and paste ready whenever anyone raised the issue of BDO's fees, and used it a few times. :greengrin When BJ used the word "property", I took it to mean either "property as part of a going concern" or "property as part of a break-up".

To focus on the sale of the assets rather than the GC would be contrary to BDO's duties. In most cases, the latter does result in a higher return for creditors and BDO have to start out with that assumption. They are still, IMO, going along that line, albeit with less confidence now than they did before.

[Caversham Green]

Hi Cav

There was a very interesting statement by Bryan Jackson at BDO's first formal press conference.

He made two (interlinked) things very clear, that nobody seems to have given much thought to;

1) BDO won't be getting paid from any ongoing working capital raised from the fans/tickets/merchandise etc.
2) BDO fees were entirely linked to a 'satisfactory return on the sale of Tynecastle' (may not be a direct quote, but he made it clear that the sale proceeds from the stadium were key to how/if BDO got paid).

Unfortunately, I can't find the unedited press conference but it's what he said.

This strikes me this would drive behavior where the best return is focused on the sale of assets and not the going concern.

Thoughts?

Yours
aDONis

I remember that. Point 1 is fairly normal - administrators generally only get paid out of the proceeds of the administration itself rather than 'trading' funds during administration (I think CWG might have pointed this out as well at one point) but point 2 is very telling if taken literally.

Without question he said they would be paid out of the sale proceeds of Tynecastle - unless that was a slip of the tongue, that means that the stadium will be sold separately from the club which means the club is to some extent going to be broken up. People in BJ's profession have to choose their words very carefully and he is an experienced operator so I would be a bit surprised if he had actually misstated the point.

[Waxy]

If Hearts get liquidated and turned into a newco after the season starts what does the spfl do? Will they be told that it doesn't matter where they finish in the table at the end of the season it's of to div3 for themIf this happens they shouldn't be allowed to play anymore fixtures.They become defunct.

[Hibercelona]

If Hearts get liquidated and turned into a newco after the season starts what does the spfl do? Will they be told that it doesn't matter where they finish in the table at the end of the season it's of to div3 for them

They wouldn't be getting sent off anywhere. They'd be dead. A newco (new company) would have to start from the beginning.

[Caversham Green]

If Hearts get liquidated and turned into a newco after the season starts what does the spfl do? Will they be told that it doesn't matter where they finish in the table at the end of the season it's of to div3 for them

Remember that what happened with Rangers was that the other SPL clubs voted on whether to allow the transfer of their SPL share to Sevco. They voted no in that case, but if the demise of HoMFC was going to bugger up the fixtures in the middle of a season it's not inconceivable that they vote yes to a transfer of the yams' share.

[Sanger]

This makes no sense to me at all. Viewed differently by who? Do you mean by SFA / SPFL? If not, then who?
By the SPFL - if a CVA is accepted on a newco because the newco is a way out of the Lithuanian tangle then it would not be viewed as a newco that came about because of a failed CVA attempt that led to liquidation a la Gers. IMO of course!

[hibeesjoe]

They wouldn't be getting sent off anywhere. They'd be dead. A newco (new company) would have to start from the beginning.

How would that work in the middle of a season though. Would all games teams had against them go down as 3 points and Hearts instantly thrown out the league? I Still can't help but feel they will scrape there way out there predicament, although depending on 5k tramps donating £25 a month through direct debit sounds madness as a business plan.

[aDONis]

Early in the discussions, I had a cut and paste ready whenever anyone raised the issue of BDO's fees, and used it a few times. :greengrin When BJ used the word "property", I took it to mean either "property as part of a going concern" or "property as part of a break-up".

To focus on the sale of the assets rather than the GC would be contrary to BDO's duties. In most cases, the latter does result in a higher return for creditors and BDO have to start out with that assumption. They are still, IMO, going along that line, albeit with less confidence now than they did before.

I agree with you to a large extent, but, because BDO's remuneration is linked to the sale of 'property', I feel there is potential conflict. Particularly if you look at the the mix of a deal.

I'm hypothesising, but because the secured creditor and BDO are higher up the food chain, two deals could be treated very differently.

So for example if we take a bid of £2m for the Assets + a £2.5m commitment to pay Xp in the pound to the unsecured creditors further down the food chain. May not look as good as a simple £4m for the assets + 0p to all unsecured creditors.

BDO are certainly no strangers to the de-coupling of the club from the legal entity (i.e. club), err fib and I'm pretty sure we're about to see it again.

Yours
aDONis

[Waxy]

Remember that what happened with Rangers was that the other SPL clubs voted on whether to allow the transfer of their SPL share to Sevco. They voted no in that case, but if the demise of HoMFC was going to bugger up the fixtures in the middle of a season it's not inconceivable that they vote yes to a transfer of the yams' share.Which should be a criminal act.Sending a new company straight to the top when it really should take millions of pounds investment to get there.Like every other team had to do.

Rightly refused last time and also should for the yams for the same reasons.
Sporting integrity.

[Hibercelona]

How would that work in the middle of a season though. Would all games teams had against them go down as 3 points and Hearts instantly thrown out the league? I Still can't help but feel they will scrape there way out there predicament, although depending on 5k tramps donating £25 a month through direct debit sounds madness as a business plan.

All the games played against Hearts would become VOID.

[Treadstone]

Which should be a criminal act.Sending a new company straight to the top when it really should take millions of pounds investment to get there.Like every other team had to do.

Rightly refused last time and also should for the yams for the same reasons.
Sporting integrity.
:agree:
If the yams get to transfer their SPFL share, the loyalist riots of the last two nights would look like a sevco kids christmas party.

[SmashinGlass]

By the SPFL - if a CVA is accepted on a newco because the newco is a way out of the Lithuanian tangle then it would not be viewed as a newco that came about because of a failed CVA attempt that led to liquidation a la Gers. IMO of course!

That makes absolutely no sense. If its a CVA, it's a CVA. If its a newco, it's liquidation. It can't possibly be both

[grunt]

By the SPFL - if a CVA is accepted on a newco because the newco is a way out of the Lithuanian tangle then it would not be viewed as a newco that came about because of a failed CVA attempt that led to liquidation a la Gers. IMO of course!You may as well be speaking Lithuanian for all the sense this makes to me. You say "if a CVA is accepted on a newco" - I don't think this can happen. A CVA means that the oldco continues - it is an agreement by the creditors to voluntarily waive part of their debt in order to allow the oldco to continue in business. It's a CVA OR newco thing. At least, that's how I understand it.

[SloopJB]

Remember that what happened with Rangers was that the other SPL clubs voted on whether to allow the transfer of their SPL share to Sevco. They voted no in that case, but if the demise of HoMFC was going to bugger up the fixtures in the middle of a season it's not inconceivable that they vote yes to a transfer of the yams' share.
Was it the case that ukio were asked to confirm by letter
they would continue to fund hearts in order for hearts to be allowed to start the season a while back?
A guarantor if you like.

How does that requirement sit now with the funding up until Christmas?

Or was that a myth?

[YehButNoBut]

Is Hearts payday still the 16th (this Tuesday) will be interesting to see if they receive full pay.


Although they did get an advance & full pay is still half pay in Yam world, it's all terribly confusing. :greengrin

[Sanger]

You may as well be speaking Lithuanian for all the sense this makes to me. You say "if a CVA is accepted on a newco" - I don't think this can happen. A CVA means that the oldco continues - it is an agreement by the creditors to voluntarily waive part of their debt in order to allow the oldco to continue in business. It's a CVA OR newco thing. At least, that's how I understand it.


You transfer all the assets and creditors to the Newco to unlock the Lithuanian legal tangle. The Newco remains in administration and CVA is agreed which allows the Newco to exit administration. The newco is simply a technical device to unlock the Lithuanian impasse and could be viewed as such by the SPFL member clubs.

[Part/Time Supporter]

You transfer all the assets and creditors to the Newco to unlock the Lithuanian legal tangle. The Newco remains in administration and CVA is agreed which allows the Newco to exit administration. The newco is simply a technical device to unlock the Lithuanian impasse and could be viewed as such by the SPFL member clubs.

There's no reason for a new company to be in administration. The business and assets would simply be sold by the old company to the new company. The old company would then be liquidated with any proceeds going to the creditors.

Yes, it is possible that the SPFL board (it's their decision now, not the clubs) may view the Hearts situation differently, but the noise you would get from Rangers fans would be deafening. If BDO were confident that the authorities would handle it differently they wouldn't waste their time with CVA proposals.

[Waxy]

You transfer all the assets and creditors to the Newco to unlock the Lithuanian legal tangle. The Newco remains in administration and CVA is agreed which allows the Newco to exit administration. The newco is simply a technical device to unlock the Lithuanian impasse and could be viewed as such by the SPFL member clubs.Simply a technical device to get out of paying 25 million pound worth of debt.the debt they used to win prize money from every other club in Scotland.

[Col2]

Is Hearts payday still the 16th (this Tuesday) will be interesting to see if they receive full pay.


Although they did get an advance & full pay is still half pay in Yam world, it's all terribly confusing. :greengrin

On a related point have the SPL set a date for sanctions re non payment of June wages (while yams were pre admin cough cough)?

If not any public statement from them on why and if they are waiting for admin / CVA thing to come to conclusion?

I do fear a brushing under the carpet coming especially as IF yams get out if admin they may not want to pinish them with further transfer embargo as this would make relegation a certainty if they did? eg SPFL would want competitive relegation battle?

[Waxy]

On a related point have the SPL set a date for sanctions re non payment of June wages (while yams were pre admin cough cough)?

If not any public statement from them on why and if they are waiting for admin / CVA thing to come to conclusion?

I do fear a brushing under the carpet coming especially as IF yams get out if admin they may not want to pinish them with further transfer embargo as this would make relegation a certainty if they did? eg SPFL would want competitive relegation battle?Think they are up the end of this week (thursday or friday)

[Hibs07p]

Think they are up the end of this week (thursday or friday)

I think it's the SFA they face on the 18th for going into administration.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/231561-hearts-face-scottish-fa-sanctions-for-going-into-administration/

GGTTH

[ScottB]

They simply can't be 'gone easy on' as both Rangers and Dunfermline would have grounds to take the SFA / SPFL to court over it. Not to mention all the blow back from other clubs and the fans. The tenuous argument that the league 'needed' Rangers matters even less for Hearts and simply won't wash. The hilarity that Hearts are trotting this crap out a year after they wanted Rangers binned is hilarious.

Also don't forget that 11th place will be a playoff spot, so even if Hearts are down and out for the count, there will still be a battle to avoid 11th.


Plus, the SPFL Board is made up of clubs, not some separate group of people, now that said board is not just top league clubs I see even less sympathy for the Yams plight.

[Caversham Green]

Was it the case that ukio were asked to confirm by letter
they would continue to fund hearts in order for hearts to be allowed to start the season a while back?
A guarantor if you like.

How does that requirement sit now with the funding up until Christmas?

Or was that a myth?

In previous years UBIG (rather than Ukio) have been asked to provide letters confirming they would continue to fund HoMFC for the auditors, but I'm not aware that the football authorities wanted them. UBIG didn't provide the letters of support for the most recent set of accounts, but the auditors saw fit to give an unqualified report subject to the success of a membership scheme and player sales. Subsequent events indicate that the auditors were wrong to give that report.

[greenginger]

Remember that what happened with Rangers was that the other SPL clubs voted on whether to allow the transfer of their SPL share to Sevco. They voted no in that case, but if the demise of HoMFC was going to bugger up the fixtures in the middle of a season it's not inconceivable that they vote yes to a transfer of the yams' share.


Especially if BDO can produce a letter from the Ukio. Admin. to the effect that had it been possible to conduct a vote on a CVA the Lith. Admin. would have supported it and it would have been agreed.

If it looks like coming to that, we better have counter arguments ready!

[Treadstone]

Especially if BDO can produce a letter from the Ukio. Admin. to the effect that had it been possible to conduct a vote on a CVA the Lith. Admin. would have supported it and it would have been agreed.

If it looks like coming to that, we better have counter arguments ready!

Sevco fans will provide all counter arguments necessary and mindless threatening violence to boot.

[Keith_M]

Sevco fans will provide all counter arguments necessary and mindless threatening violence to boot.


Every day will indeed be the 12th of July.

[CropleyWasGod]

You transfer all the assets and creditors to the Newco to unlock the Lithuanian legal tangle. The Newco remains in administration and CVA is agreed which allows the Newco to exit administration. The newco is simply a technical device to unlock the Lithuanian impasse and could be viewed as such by the SPFL member clubs.

My knitting is ripped.

So, you transfer all assets and liabilities to NewCo. That would create an insolvent company from day 1, which is probably illegal. Unless, of course, you find someone willing to fund it to the tune of £30m.

Who would be the shareholders in the NewCo?

And the unravelling of the shareholding in the OldCo would have no relevance to the NewCo whatsoever.

It's times like this that one should revert to the basics of what an administration actually is. BDO could not do as you suggest and fulfil their statutory purposes.

These are set out at Paragraph 3 to schedule B1 of The Insolvency Act 1986. Those provisions came into force and apply to all Administrations after 15th September 2003.



The three Administration statutory purposes (or required outcomes) are:



- Rescuing the company as a going concern. (Note: this purpose is to rescue the company as opposed to rescuing the business undertaken by the company.)



- Or, achieving a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).



- Or, realising property to make a distribution to one or or more secured or preferential creditors.

[Waxy]

Perhaps 50 years down the line, when there is no more yams. Someone on this site will have the username "Cropleywasgodwasgod"?

[Sanger]

My knitting is ripped.

So, you transfer all assets and liabilities to NewCo. That would create an insolvent company from day 1, which is probably illegal. Unless, of course, you find someone willing to fund it to the tune of £30m.

Who would be the shareholders in the NewCo?

And the unravelling of the shareholding in the OldCo would have no relevance to the NewCo whatsoever.

It's times like this that one should revert to the basics of what an administration actually is. BDO could not do as you suggest and fulfil their statutory purposes.

These are set out at Paragraph 3 to schedule B1 of The Insolvency Act 1986. Those provisions came into force and apply to all Administrations after 15th September 2003.



The three Administration statutory purposes (or required outcomes) are:



- Rescuing the company as a going concern. (Note: this purpose is to rescue the company as opposed to rescuing the business undertaken by the company.)



- Or, achieving a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).



- Or, realising property to make a distribution to one or or more secured or preferential creditors.

this is not my suggestion but BDO's to over come the log jam in Lithuania. If Ukio and the other creditors agree to it it will happen and if there is an upfront offer comparable with liquidation (£4m -£5m). Remember there is no rule that a club drops out of the SPFL if it becomes a newco. It is up to the clubs to decide on that and they will likely see the newco as a technical move to untangle the Lithuanian knot and vote to keep HMFC in the SPFL. It will be effectively viewed as a CVA. This is my last comment on the matter. See my previous posts for further explanations. We will all just have to wait and see what unfolds which won't in any senario be very good for the Yams.

[CropleyWasGod]

in Lithuania.this is not my suggestion but BDO's to over come the log jam If Ukio and the other creditors agree to it it will happen and if there is an upfront offer comparable with liquidation (£4m -£5m). Remember there is no rule that a club drops out of the SPFL if it becomes a newco. It is up to the clubs to decide on that and they will likely see the newco as a technical move to untangle the Lithuanian knot and vote to keep HMFC in the SPFL. It will be effectively viewed as a CVA. This is my last comment on the matter. See my previous posts for further explanations. We will all just have to wait and see what unfolds which won't in any senario be very good for the Yams.

Where did BDO say this?

And I don't see, in your previous posts, any answers to my (reasonable) questions about the scenario you're suggesting.


Perhaps 50 years down the line, when there is no more yams. Someone on this site will have the username "Cropleywasgodwasgod"?

I'm not God. I'm just a very naughty boy. :cb

[greenginger]

this is not my suggestion but BDO's to over come the log jam in Lithuania. If Ukio and the other creditors agree to it it will happen and if there is an upfront offer comparable with liquidation (£4m -£5m). Remember there is no rule that a club drops out of the SPFL if it becomes a newco. It is up to the clubs to decide on that and they will likely see the newco as a technical move to untangle the Lithuanian knot and vote to keep HMFC in the SPFL. It will be effectively viewed as a CVA. This is my last comment on the matter. See my previous posts for further explanations. We will all just have to wait and see what unfolds which won't in any senario be very good for the Yams.

It is not the Clubs who vote on where a NewCo Club begins its life in the football leagues. That decision will be made by the SPFL management committee.

[jgl07]

It is not the Clubs who vote on where a NewCo Club begins its life in the football leagues. That decision will be made by the SPFL management committee.
But they have to reflect the views of the clubs and the precedents that have been set including Rangers and Livingston.

[Sanger]

It is not the Clubs who vote on where a NewCo Club begins its life in the football leagues. That decision will be made by the SPFL management committee.
The chairpersons of the club then. The point is it is discretionary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18703183




Sent from my iPhone

[SuperTortolano]

Am I right in thinking that if they went down the newco route then they would have to change their badge from 1874 to 2013!

[greenginger]

Am I right in thinking that if they went down the newco route then they would have to change their badge from 1874 to 2013!


No, they would buy the badge for a couple of quid.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

As it was for Rangers : two possibilities - to recognise that the share has transferred from HMFC to sevilleco

To allow the sevilleco to enter the lowest ring of the SPFL

So no voting out of sevilleco from the SPL as per sevco only allowing direct entry into the SPFL of a company with no financial history ....

Having been stepped over to let sevco enter last time , if you were the chairman of Forres Mechanics or Spartans, would you let a homeless sevilleco with no season ticket holders shut off your chances so readily this time ?

[Onion]

I think the plan is to liquidate once the SPFL is underway.
They then will have a better chance of not being thrown out.

If that was the case they would have dodged the bullet twice! How do you think their big brother Sevco would feel about that?


Especially if BDO can produce a letter from the Ukio. Admin. to the effect that had it been possible to conduct a vote on a CVA the Lith. Admin. would have supported it and it would have been agreed.

If it looks like coming to that, we better have counter arguments ready!

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

[ScottB]

There is no motivation or reason for the authorities to let them off with it.

Keeping a Hearts newco in the top league, regardless of technicalities causes only trouble.

Rangers will sue. The moronic element in their support will go to war.

The same views other clubs fans held about Rangers last year will return. If the clubs were happy to deny sevco entry, a club they made genuine money from why on earth would they feel the need to bend the knee for what would still be a crippled Hearts?


It's a nonsensical non-starter. Newco should be in Division 3, if not the Lowland League. Assuming such a team would be ready in time, which I doubt.

[greenginger]

If that was the case they would have dodged the bullet twice! How do you think their big brother Sevco would feel about that?

And there are other clubs with debts they would love to dump. Could set a very awkward precedent for the newly formed SPFL.

[Dashing Bob S]

There is no reason the authorities will let them off with it, rather than incompetence and procrastination. I think that's what Hearts are relying on. Their sole hope seems to be that they struggle into the season before liquidation, them cause as much chaos as possible, making the league's problem rather than their own.

It's the 'Scottish football is ****ed, we need to sort it out' approach. I think that Scottish football is likely to say 'no, you're ****ed, sort yourself out.'

[johnrebus]

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.



Please explain how and why this is likely to happen?


:cb

[Northernhibee]

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

If the SFA have any balls they should be revoking Hearts membership to play in the SPL next season. If they don't a dangerous prescident could be set that would be a real kick in the stones for those who believe in sporting integrity.

[greenginger]

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.



Lets just hope its Massone then. :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

There is no reason the authorities will let them off with it, rather than incompetence and procrastination. I think that's what Hearts are relying on. Their sole hope seems to be that they struggle into the season before liquidation, them cause as much chaos as possible, making the league's problem rather than their own.

It's the 'Scottish football is ****ed, we need to sort it out' approach. I think that Scottish football is likely to say 'no, you're ****ed, sort yourself out.'

Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

[CropleyWasGod]

Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

On a hot day, comfort yourself with two words.

Frozen shares.

[rcarter1]

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

I agree, that unless there are sensible (and strictly enforced) financial rules for football clubs, these kind of approaches can be used by folk with the brass neck to do it (Rangers and the EBT springs to mind). If our governing body can pool together and find one brain cell they will realise that a fundamental and strictly enforced overhaul to the financial rules is required.

I would think that administration should amount to automatic relegation by at least a division. This makes sense in terms of keeping the club as a going concern if only because in theory the wages required to compete two divisions lower should be an absolute fraction of what they were prior to administration. The fact that clubs would have to release all of their players on big wages is basically tough luck - and the reward for making an a**e of the finances.

[Hibercelona]

On a hot day, comfort yourself with two words.

Frozen shares.

That's the current predicament. But as we very well know, rules can be changed in an instant in Scottish Football.

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.

As I said, fans of other clubs don't seem too bothered, simply because Hearts aren't the OF.

[s2hart]

Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

I'd imagine supporters of other teams would be thinking if they the yams do stay in the SPFL then they should have a season of not worrying about being relegated.

[johnrebus]

That's the current predicament. But as we very well know, rules can be changed in an instant in Scottish Football.

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.

As I said, fans of other clubs don't seem too bothered, simply because Hearts aren't the OF.



For the Hun perhaps, who - like it or not - are part of the fabric of Scottish society (regrettably), but not for a smelly bunch of also-rans from the west of Edinburgh.


:yw:

[Hibercelona]

For the Hun perhaps, who - like it or not - are part of the fabric of Scottish society (regrettably), but not for a smelly bunch of also-rans from the west of Edinburgh.


:yw:

There was more of a noise coming from fans of other clubs over the Rangers situation. Everybody from every other club wanted to see them punished.

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

[Gus Fring]

There was more of a noise coming from fans of other clubs over the Rangers situation. Everybody from every other club wanted to see them punished.

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

Hearts have a lot less accolades and considerably less fans than Rangers, which will mean any defence mounted will be pitiful. The clubs will by and large take the same stance as last season but this time we'll also have Rangers being vocal that Hearts should suffer similar fate to them.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

When Rod spoke of sporting integrity being 'Beyond Purchase' financial integrity and budgets etc his lips were talking about Rangers but the glint in his eye said Hearts...

Whatever happens a precedents were established last summer that will make it very difficult for newco Hearts to argue against or the SPFL to fail to uphold

[Part/Time Supporter]

When Rod spoke of sporting integrity being 'Beyond Purchase' financial integrity and budgets etc his lips were talking about Rangers but the glint in his eye said Hearts...

Whatever happens a precedents were established last summer that will make it very difficult for newco Hearts to argue against or the SPFL to fail to uphold

Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue. On top of that you only have to look at the public statement of Romanov about Rangers, which I don't recall any Hearts people disagreeing with.

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue.

Did you say, maybe a few pages back, that the way of deciding has changed? That it's the Board (?) rather than the clubs?

Just wondering if that might change the process slightly, or whether in effect it will still be the clubs who will inform that process.

[joe breezy]

Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue. On top of that you only have to look at the public statement of Romanov about Rangers, which I don't recall any Hearts people disagreeing with.

Yep and how many Celtic fans will genuinely have a soft spot for Hearts?

[nonshinyfinish]

Yep and how many Celtic fans will genuinely have a soft spot for Hearts?

A Celtc mate of mine said a few years ago (long before Rangers 1873 took their final Stannah up the stairs to the stars) that away at Hertz was Celtc's most aggy game, more so than OF games. His words: you could scrape the bile off the walls.

[Treadstone]

A Celtc mate of mine said a few years ago (long before Rangers 1873 took their final Stannah up the stairs to the stars) that away at Hertz was Celtc's most aggy game, more so than OF games. His words: you could scrape the bile off the walls.

:agree:
Staying round the corner from Swynecastle i would say that currently the atmosphere before a Celtic-Yams game is poisonous. Not that Celtic should be the driving force in sanctions but that the clubs/board see fit to hand out proper punishment(s).

[Kaiser1962]

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.


Actually they cant. Unless its been changed between moving from the SPL to the SPFL but I am sure PTS or GG will know.

In order for a club to compete in the top division here, and elsewhere, a club needs a UEFA licence. In order to obtain a UEFA licence they are required to produce three years audited accounts. Any Newco will not have these.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

:agree:
Staying round the corner from Swynecastle i would say that currently the atmosphere before a Celtic-Yams game is poisonous. Not that Celtic should be the driving force in sanctions but that the clubs/board see fit to hand out proper punishment(s).

Wonder what other fan forums are saying about this alleged fudge ? :-) preventative strike time

[Hibercelona]

I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".


Actually they cant. Unless its been changed between moving from the SPL to the SPFL but I am sure PTS or GG will know.

In order for a club to compete in the top division here, and elsewhere, a club needs a UEFA licence. In order to obtain a UEFA licence they are required to produce three years audited accounts. Any Newco will not have these.

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

[CropleyWasGod]

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

Hibs.net fact. Not a real fact. This was done to death last year.

From the SFA's Licencing Requirements:-

"Exceptional dispensation may be granted by the Licensing Committee in certain cases where a club is unable to provide historical financial information ."

I would contend, m'lud, that the reason The Rangers weren't able to provide such information was because they didn't actually exist in the previous 3 years.

[wazoo1875]

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".
With my work being in glasgow I have friends who are Rangers, celtic, thistle and St Mirren fans. They all want them done properly. My brother in law is a killie fan and I also know fans of both Dundee clubs who want the properly punished. Whilst thats not everyone associated with those clubs it does show to some extent that there is not a love in for them either.
I would agree tho that there would probs have been a much greater level of ill feelung towards the greater zombies last summer.

[Kaiser1962]

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

No you dont. The three years accounts is a UEFA requirement and you cant play in the top divisions under UEFA juristiction without one.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".

Not sure what thats got to do with what I posted but, never mind.

[Hank Schrader]

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

Do yourself a favour and turn your PC/mobile/laptop off and get out and enjoy the weather. I've read all your posts on this thread this afternoon and you are slavering a lot of nonsense as far as I'm
concerned. You are coming across like you have zero grip on the actual situation. To suggest the fans of other SPL clubs aren't bothered about Hearts woes is ludicrous. Their arrogance of the last eight years is enough to turn most fans of other teams against them.

A precedent was set last year with the death of old Huns and the outcry about new Huns being parachuted into the SPL. There is not a chance that a newco Hearts would be allowed to walk into the top league. Not a chance.

[Caversham Green]

Did you say, maybe a few pages back, that the way of deciding has changed? That it's the Board (?) rather than the clubs?

Just wondering if that might change the process slightly, or whether in effect it will still be the clubs who will inform that process.

It was actually for the board to decide back in the days of the Rangers fiasco but they (understandably) chose to put it to a vote of all clubs in view of the potential fallout.

[brog]

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".



It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

Youre the person saying " most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps cheated". Is that a "fact", a "net fact " or just your opinion? Personally from my small survey of Dons, Dee, Killie & St J fans they want Yams to be reamed, now that is a fact!

[God Petrie]

People think a Hearts Newco would be able to stay in the SPL?

Wow. This is paranoia of celtic proportions.

[Caversham Green]

People think a Hearts Newco would be able to stay in the SPL?

Wow. This is paranoia of celtic proportions.

Maybe that's my fault - I said that it could happen, and by the rules as I understand them it could.

I don't believe for a minute it will though.

[Dashing Bob S]

People think a Hearts Newco would be able to stay in the SPL?

Wow. This is paranoia of celtic proportions.

It really is quite embarrassing.

It's so sad that many Hibs fans seem to swallowed, albeit subconsciously, the 'big team' propaganda spewed out by a bunch of insignificant, jumped-up, deluded muppets who have been cutting their own throats for years, while believing that they were playing with the house money.

Far from being some anointed entity, swathed in entitlements, these idiots are royally shafted, and probably in ways beyond most of us have even started to consider. And the sweetest thing, to paraphrase their old mantra: 'they've only done it to themselves."

[God Petrie]

It really is quite embarrassing.

It's so sad that many Hibs fans seem to swallowed, albeit subconsciously, the 'big team' propaganda spewed out by a bunch of insignificant, jumped-up, deluded muppets who have been cutting their own throats for years, while believing that they were playing with the house money.

Far from being some anointed entity, swathed in entitlements, these idiots are royally shafted, and probably in ways beyond most of us have even started to consider. And the sweetest thing, to paraphrase their old mantra: 'they've only done it to themselves."

Yep - people need to enjoy their current plight. They're done - no need to overanalyse it and come up with obscure ways they could come out unscathed.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yep - people need to enjoy their current plight. They're done - no need to overanalyse it and come up with obscure ways they could come out unscathed.

To be fair, I think a lot of people are just trying to be thorough and cover all bases.

[cabbageandribs1875]

There was more of a noise coming from fans of other clubs over the Rangers situation. Everybody from every other club wanted to see them punished.

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.


where exactly are you getting all this information from ? online polls or what, couple of folk you know :confused:

[Kato]

where exactly are you getting all this information from ? online polls or what, couple of folk you know :confused:

The claim is that he has "facts" not ".net facts."

Facts are generally showable, I'm interested in a look at them.

[greenginger]

It really is quite embarrassing.

It's so sad that many Hibs fans seem to swallowed, albeit subconsciously, the 'big team' propaganda spewed out by a bunch of insignificant, jumped-up, deluded muppets who have been cutting their own throats for years, while believing that they were playing with the house money.

Far from being some anointed entity, swathed in entitlements, these idiots are royally shafted, and probably in ways beyond most of us have even started to consider. And the sweetest thing, to paraphrase their old mantra: 'they've only done it to themselves."


But, but, I'm sure I read on Kickback that they would be debt free in a new stadium with world cup stars queuing to play for them while we were back to the peg selling. :greengrin:greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

The claim is that he has "facts" not ".net facts."

Facts are generally showable, I'm interested in a look at them.



seconded :agree:

[hibee_nation]

I'm getting fact off with this. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

The claim is that he has "facts" not ".net facts."

Facts are generally showable, I'm interested in a look at them.

You have more chance of biting your own erse. :agree:

[nonshinyfinish]

You have more chance of biting your own erse. :agree:

Trying that now. Will report back.

[blackpoolhibs]

Trying that now. Will report back.

:faf: :top marks

[nonshinyfinish]

No joy. Sorry lads.

[Geo_1875]

No joy. Sorry lads.

Try harder.

[nonshinyfinish]

Try harder.

With the best will in the world, there's a limit to how bendy I am.

[Dashing Bob S]

With the best will in the world, there's a limit to how bendy I am.

Get a Hearts ST. "We're only biting our own *****."

[nonshinyfinish]

Get a Hearts ST. "We're only biting our own *****."

I'd rather bite my own erse.

Aw naw, we're stuck in a loop.

[brianmc]

With the best will in the world, there's a limit to how bendy I am.
You should try it after removing a couple of ribs - it worked for me.



* though if I'm honest it wasn't my arse I was trying to reach ;)

[Sergey]

It really is quite embarrassing.

It's so sad that many Hibs fans seem to swallowed, albeit subconsciously, the 'big team' propaganda spewed out by a bunch of insignificant, jumped-up, deluded muppets who have been cutting their own throats for years, while believing that they were playing with the house money.

Far from being some anointed entity, swathed in entitlements, these idiots are royally shafted, and probably in ways beyond most of us have even started to consider. And the sweetest thing, to paraphrase their old mantra: 'they've only done it to themselves."

:applause: Fantastic post, Robert.

There's still a few chapters to write before their epitaph can be placed alongside their WWI memorial at Haymarket, but they'll be remembering the dead in maroon in the not too distant.

[Hibercelona]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

[weecounty hibby]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon and having a go but I note that our location is Dunfie. Have you really not met an Dunfermline fans who think they should be papped out of the SPL? I live in Clackamannanshire and work in darkest Fife so I have met fans from Alloa to East Fife, Raith, Dunfermline and of course the ugly sisters and every one I speak to believes they should be punished in the same way as Rangers if the events play out the same way and that is to AT LEAST be put in div 3

[God Petrie]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

There's a wide spectrum of opinion between Hibs.net levels of hatred of Hearts and wanting them to stay in the SPFL if they became a newco.

At any rate, it's not up to the fans, it's up to the clubs and I severely doubt any would be stupid enough to treat a Hearts newco differently to Sevco given the backlash it would create from Rangers fans at least. Even the fans who wouldn't mind Hearts staying in the SPL can appreciate that a precedent has been set. That includes Hearts fans who seem to accept a Newco means Division 3.

[Kato]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

Asking for factual information on a message board isn't exactly getting "wide". Getting wide would be something far cheekier than that.

You claimed to have facts, I said I wouldn't mind a butcher's , all quite polite really. Am not claiming to have any facts myself. Where's yours? (Does that sound wide?)

[Mikey]

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

:hilarious

[Twa Cairpets]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

Interesting as I've not met a non-Hibby who wants anything other than them being papped out of the league, for a lot of the same reasons we have but with, admittedly, less loathing, just a general kind of disdain and disapproval.

[Hibs Class]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

A colleague of mine is a Celtc supporter who sees maybe a half dozen games each season. We were chatting last week and his hope is that they die, as "they are a nasty club who have cheated for years and have a nauseating misplaced arrogance."

[Bostonhibby]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

Not many St Mirren fans have any time for them, more so after the wee cup final. I have a few mates who follow the buddies and they always regarded the yam pretty much as we Hibbies do. Worked with an Aberdeen fan who loathes them as well.

[Eyrie]

For most fans of other teams the Yams are largely an irrelevance compared to a local rival or one of the Ugly Sisters, so on that basis I can see that it's not top of their list of things to think about. They need to be asked the question first before they'd consider it.

Ask if the rules should be fairly enforced on all clubs and they will say "yes". Highlight the financial doping that has brought the Yams to their current predicament and the response will be "serves them right."

[CropleyWasGod]

:hilarious

Oh. Welcome home. :greengrin

[Barrabus]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.
It should be borne in mind that during the "cheating" years the points amassed by Hertz was to the financial detriment of every other club in the league. As you are financially rewarded for the amount of points accumulated the lack of sporting integrity from them would have weakened the player budgets (to varying degrees) of all other member clubs for the following season. I don't think that that will be forgotten by the fans/chairman/board of said clubs (at least it had better not!).

[Treadstone]

Are they certain to even get a points deduction next season?

Or will that be another decision "bottled"?


Well I see that people are still joking away in this thread.

But is anything actually happening? Or is it the usual nonsense, with nothing actually ever happening to them? :yawn:


What's tedious is all the hype about them being close to death, yet no matter how close to death we make them out to be, they never actually come close to dying.

Is there anybody on here who genuinely knows whats going on over at the pink pishpot? Or is it all just drivel?

I want to know the facts of whats actually going on over there. But this thread just seems to be full of jokes, without any indication of whats actually going on.


I think we all know that one way or another, they will find some way to survive. :rolleyes:

Saying "the time is near" is pointless as we'll still be saying it in 10 years time!

:cb

[Hiber-nation]

If you honestly believe that everybody else in the country views Hearts the same way we do on Hibs.net, then your mind is seriously warped.

I haven't came across a non-hibby that actually wants to see Hearts leave the SPFL. I'm sure there are some, but I just haven't came across any.

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

Behave, everyone else either despises them or finds them too insignificant to form an opinion on. Wideo.

[sidneyhibbie]

A colleague of mine is a Celtc supporter who sees maybe a half dozen games each season. We were chatting last week and his hope is that they die, as "they are a nasty club who have cheated for years and have a nauseating misplaced arrogance."

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

[nonshinyfinish]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

This must be costing you a fortune in stamps.

[HibeeMG]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

Uh-oh. Things have just got real!


:greengrin

[jonty]

Oh. Welcome home. :greengrin

He's not. :greengrin He must have come up trumps putting the .net money on 15

[Hibbyradge]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

:hilarious :thumbsup:


He's not. :greengrin He must have come up trumps putting the .net money on 15

Can you back - 15 in Vegas?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

HUTCHYHIBBY is looking forward to their response.

[jacomo]

No you dont. The three years accounts is a UEFA requirement and you cant play in the top divisions under UEFA juristiction without one.

Mebbes aye mebbes no, but given their unique role in saving Europe from tyranny, I am sure an open letter to Sepp Blatter would clear up any potential difficulties here. No doubt some kick backer is already on it, and there will be a draft on Ian Murray's desk when he's got a spare moment to read it.

:greengrin

[Springbank]

Mebbes aye mebbes no, but given their unique role in saving Europe from tyranny, I am sure an open letter to Sepp Blatter would clear up any potential difficulties here. No doubt some kick backer is already on it, and there will be a draft on Ian Murray's desk when he's got a spare moment to read it.

:greengrin

Springbank will happily nominate Sydneyhibby for the letter writing duty...

[CropleyWasGod]

Springbank will happily nominate Sydneyhibby for the letter writing duty...

Mikey will donate some of his Vegas winnings towards the stamp.

[Northernhibee]

Can someone write to the Royal Mail and find the whereabouts of all the share certificates lost in the mail too?

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone write to the Royal Mail and find the whereabouts of all the share certificates lost in the mail too?

Sorry. Not this week. Our letter-writer-in-chief is too busy.

[Jack]

Mebbes aye mebbes no, but given their unique role in saving Europe from tyranny, I am sure an open letter to Sepp Blatter would clear up any potential difficulties here. No doubt some kick backer is already on it, and there will be a draft on Ian Murray's desk when he's got a spare moment to read it.

:greengrin

Hope its Sean Lawson, or whatever his name was. It would take until the cup final to read it!

[The Green Goblin]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

:thumbsup: brilliant. Good luck!

[SurferRosa]

Good post, i have been busy with work but i plan to write a letter to this BDO Mob this evening to instruct them to act in the best interest of the creditors

Aboot time tae! They`ve been on tenterhooks waiting on Sidney telling them they`re ' good to go '.......:thumbsup:

[hibbypostie]

Can someone write to the Royal Mail and find the whereabouts of all the share certificates lost in the mail too?

Aye we were going to bring in extra staff for the bulk posting still any day now eh

[YehButNoBut]

Must be the only club in football who announces in the press when they have paid their players & staff.

So that will be a sizeable chunk of the fans money spent already.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-administration-staff-to-be-paid-on-time-1-3001415

HEARTS administrator Bryan Jackson has confirmed that players’ wages will be paid on time tomorrow, with full staff salaries to follow next week.

Gary Locke and his squad received an advance on July’s wages earlier in the month after going unpaid during June. Jackson stated today that the remainder has been approved and will be in players’ bank accounts tomorrow.

[Bostonhibby]

Momentous day, is there a wordsmith around who could put together an appropriate letter to congratulate them on paying their players?

[Springbank]

I hear Bryan Jackson and bdo are to be appointed by asafa Powell and Tyson gay.

They needed someone with experience of delivering the Big message:

Forget "no place for cheats in our sport"
That's so 20thcentury

Athletics NEEDS big names, and can't survive without them

[CropleyWasGod]

Momentous day, is there a wordsmith around who could put together an appropriate letter to congratulate them on paying their players?

Sidney is busy.

[StevieC]

Must be the only club in football who announces in the press when they have paid their players & staff.

So that will be a sizeable chunk of the fans money spent already.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-administration-staff-to-be-paid-on-time-1-3001415

Never in doubt.

The extra 3,000 season tickets will cover July/Aug, the SPL money from last season will cover September and maybe some of October, the walk-ups might just about cover up to November .. December will be a real struggle .. and then they're finished.

[jacomo]

Must be the only club in football who announces in the press when they have paid their players & staff.

So that will be a sizeable chunk of the fans money spent already.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-administration-staff-to-be-paid-on-time-1-3001415

HEARTS administrator Bryan Jackson has confirmed that players’ wages will be paid on time tomorrow, with full staff salaries to follow next week.

Gary Locke and his squad received an advance on July’s wages earlier in the month after going unpaid during June. Jackson stated today that the remainder has been approved and will be in players’ bank accounts tomorrow.

Good old Banderson, back in the Scotsman hot seat. Failed to work in a disparaging comment about Hibs into his story though - he'll be disappointed with himself there.

[Onion]

Never in doubt.

The extra 3,000 season tickets will cover July/Aug, the SPL money from last season will cover September and maybe a bit of November, the walk-ups might just about cover the rest of November .. December will be a real struggle .. and then they're finished.

In the Yam's cash flow projs they've got the sale of special edition maroon poppies in November, the kid's Xmas savings for December, a 1 for 1 anniversary rights issue for suckers in Jan. They are claiming royalties on all heart shaped symbols used in Feb, proceeds from the LC Final in March, bake sale in April and proceeds from their Special Relationship Cup in May. All in all a realistic, self sufficiency plan to put to the SPL :)

[Dashing Bob S]

Delighted for Los Yambolinos. At this crucial time the last thing they and their creditors need is any distraction from evaluating those three very enticing bids for the club.

The SPL would be crazy if they let this mess of a club commence the season in admin, shares frozen and legal action in Lithuanian in the menu. They are creating a massive problem for themselves come Christmas.

[CyberSauzee]

It looks like it's all quiet on the liquidation front for the time being. With Jackson saying it will take 3-4 weeks to go through the 'bids', we may as well start looking forward to a European adventure, St Johnstone's first 3 points of the season on 3rd August and our kick-off on the 4th.

Under 3 weeks until the new league campaign starts, time for this thread to take a well earned summer holiday!

[Prof. Shaggy]

It looks like it's all quiet on the liquidation front for the time being. With Jackson saying it will take 3-4 weeks to go through the 'bids', we may as well start looking forward to a European adventure, St Johnstone's first 3 points of the season on 3rd August and our kick-off on the 4th.

Under 3 weeks until the new league campaign starts, time for this thread to take a well earned summer holiday!

Spoilsport:na na:

[MB62]

Delighted for Los Yambolinos. At this crucial time the last thing they and their creditors need is any distraction from evaluating those three very enticing bids for the club.

The SPL would be crazy if they let this mess of a club commence the season in admin, shares frozen and legal action in Lithuanian in the menu. They are creating a massive problem for themselves come Christmas.

Is there not a rule that says each club has to be able to provide the finances to see themselves through to the end of each season?
With BDO saying they have the money for the next 3 or 4 months, shirley that is in contravention of the rules?

[greenginger]

It looks like it's all quiet on the liquidation front for the time being. With Jackson saying it will take 3-4 weeks to go through the 'bids', we may as well start looking forward to a European adventure, St Johnstone's first 3 points of the season on 3rd August and our kick-off on the 4th.

Under 3 weeks until the new league campaign starts, time for this thread to take a well earned summer holiday!

Don't think so somehow, SFA or is it SPL inquiry into collapse of the Yams this week. :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there not a rule that says each club has to be able to provide the finances to see themselves through to the end of each season?
With BDO saying they have the money for the next 3 or 4 months, shirley that is in contravention of the rules?

No.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Spoilsport:na na:


No.

Ditto

[CropleyWasGod]

Ditto

:na na:

[Hibs Class]

Good old Banderson, back in the Scotsman hot seat. Failed to work in a disparaging comment about Hibs into his story though - he'll be disappointed with himself there.


He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final." :rolleyes:

[MB62]

No.

Is there not :hnet: rule that says you are not allowed to say NO and spoil the ongoing fun? :greengrin

[#FromTheCapital]

It looks like it's all quiet on the liquidation front for the time being. With Jackson saying it will take 3-4 weeks to go through the 'bids', we may as well start looking forward to a European adventure, St Johnstone's first 3 points of the season on 3rd August and our kick-off on the 4th.

Under 3 weeks until the new league campaign starts, time for this thread to take a well earned summer holiday!

Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

[Liberal Hibby]

He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final." :rolleyes:

It was always going to be a stretch for the teams involved not to duplicate Livingston's achievement...

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there not :hnet: rule that says you are not allowed to say NO and spoil the ongoing fun? :greengrin

There bloody should be.

If there was, I'd be able to stay off here and get some real work done. :greengrin

[brog]

Is there not a rule that says each club has to be able to provide the finances to see themselves through to the end of each season?
With BDO saying they have the money for the next 3 or 4 months, shirley that is in contravention of the rules?

It's a bit of a stretch but rule C9.2 does cover it to some extent. Basically says that if SPFL has any doubt re the ability of a member to fulfil all or any fixtures through the season the SPFL will withhold funding. Problem is it would have to be a cast iron certainty, say liquidation, before SPFL would take that action IMO.

[green is good]

He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final." :rolleyes:

I'm sure the admin cup will have been put on display in a prominent position.

In cash cash converters window.


Sent fae ma ayePad wi Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

It's a bit of a stretch but rule C9.2 does cover it to some extent. Basically says that if SPFL has any doubt re the ability of a member to fulfil all or any fixtures through the season the SPFL will withhold funding. Problem is it would have to be a cast iron certainty, say liquidation, before SPFL would take that action IMO.

... which is a bit of a chicken-and-egg position. "if we think you don't have the funds, we won't give you any. Then you're really screwed."

I am in two minds about having something more concrete. On the one hand, it would help certainty and clarity for other clubs, TV, sponsors etc.

But how would you enforce it? Ask for an audit of each club's forecasts before the season starts? Have it on a self-assessment basis, like the "fit and proper" rules? The latter would be abused, and in the former an auditor would have enough qualifications and disclaimers to render such a certificate useless.

And then, after all that, if a club failed during the season, how would you punish them?

I think I have read that, in some countries, there is a bond system, where clubs put one up to guarantee their season's completion. Depending on the size of such a bond (I think it is, or used to be, £100k for agents, for example), that could be a pretty hefty one-off expense for most clubs.

[jacomo]

He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final." :rolleyes:

Ha ha I missed that. Bet he was so smug when he filed that copy, he's probably spent the rest of the day making 5-1 signs to himself in the mirror.

What a pathetic excuse for a journalist that man is.

[Bostonhibby]

He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final." :rolleyes:

Jeez, can't we just put this welt out the way by either finding oot where he lives or organising a giant cake bake to buy a controlling interest in the owners of the EEN and then sacking him. There has to be more to his "profession" than simply "subtly" baiting the fans who happen to be rivals of your favourite team.

[#FromTheCapital]

Jeez, can't we just put this welt out the way by either finding oot where he lives or organising a giant cake bake to by a controlling interest in the owners of the EEN and then sacking him. There has to be more to his "profession" than simply "subtly" baiting the fans who happen to be rivals of your favourite team.

According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us :cb

[Treadstone]

Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

Had a wee Twitter exchange with a 'journalist' of the Yam persuasion. Matthew Leslie (@mattleslie74, me neither!). The yam who organised the glorified raffle the other week was angry that BDO didn't accept the Holt bid and Leslie called him out over it. To which i replied "Correct, who gives two f***s about the admin staff."

He replied with a link to the 5-1 report, where do they get the creativity ? I told him "Great result for you guys. Do you have any links to your work ?"

He has blocked me even though i never followed him, his timeline is like a BBC testcard got access to a twitter account, boring doesn't do it justice.

Anyway just letting off steam during the Yambogeddon down time.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Had a wee Twitter exchange with a 'journalist' of the Yam persuasion. Matthew Leslie (@mattleslie74, me neither!). The yam who organised the glorified raffle the other week was angry that BDO didn't accept the Holt bid and Leslie called him out over it. To which i replied "Correct, who gives two f***s about the admin staff."

He replied with a link to the 5-1 report, where do they get the creativity ? I told him "Great result for you guys. Do you have any links to your work ?"

He has blocked me even though i never followed him, his timeline is like a BBC testcard got access to a twitter account, boring doesn't do it justice.

Anyway just letting off steam during the Yambogeddon down time.:greengrin

Out of interest, why was he angry that the Holt bids were turned down?

[down-the-slope]

Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.


:hilarious

I'm glad your back Mikey (good Hol?) as you can see there are people trying to spoil the MB by requiring facts to back up claims :rules:

As i'm sure you are well aware it could well be the thin end of the wedge that leads to dramatic reductions in the level of posting if we are required to provide 'facts' and 'justifications' for our various ramblings......





















































:greengrin

Mental as ever

[Keith_M]

Regarding the Holt bid: I can understand it being turned down. If they have any aspirations of running a football team this season, they can't let players go, as they have no way to replace them.

[Bostonhibby]

According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us :cb

To be fair daily is about the best most of us can manage, he tends to go into print once a day and most of us have day jobs, but if anyone out there is able to devote a bit more time to it more power to them:greengrin

Edit - also he does look like a yam

[Treadstone]

Out of interest, why was he angry that the Holt bids were turned down?

The story that started it (Wilson is quoted in it) and a few tweets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/hearts-gamble-ko-nottingham-forest-2054467

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)6h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356708751379664897)
Like everyone I'd love Jason to stay as a Hearts player and I agree 100k in normal circumstances isn't good value BUT we are on our knees.

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)5h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356739135572152320)
Next bit. I've never claimed to represent any fans, I was asked my opinion on club refusing a 6 figure bid for a player

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)4h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356740471499931648)
Granted the Record mentioned what we achieved with Rally, but again that's insignificant and unconnected. I simply gave my opinion

[CyberSauzee]

Spoilsport:na na:


Don't think so somehow, SFA or is it SPL inquiry into collapse of the Yams this week. :thumbsup:


Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

Well done GG - you can always be relied upon to have a finger on the pulse - of a terminally ill patient I should add :wink:

[jgl07]

... which is a bit of a chicken-and-egg position. "if we think you don't have the funds, we won't give you any. Then you're really screwed."

I am in two minds about having something more concrete. On the one hand, it would help certainty and clarity for other clubs, TV, sponsors etc.

But how would you enforce it? Ask for an audit of each club's forecasts before the season starts? Have it on a self-assessment basis, like the "fit and proper" rules? The latter would be abused, and in the former an auditor would have enough qualifications and disclaimers to render such a certificate useless.

And then, after all that, if a club failed during the season, how would you punish them?

I think I have read that, in some countries, there is a bond system, where clubs put one up to guarantee their season's completion. Depending on the size of such a bond (I think it is, or used to be, £100k for agents, for example), that could be a pretty hefty one-off expense for most clubs.

Speedway operate a bond system. The authorities have been burned several times by promotions not able to finish a season. Now to enter any of the professional leagues a bond must be deposited.

The SPL had to pay to keep Gretna on life support for half a season. They could be stung again if Hearts are allowed to start this coming season. In hindsight it is obvious that Gretna were heading for a fall. The business model of playing home matches at Motherwell with a core support of 1,000 was bound to fail. Hearts look equally unsustainable.

Hearts' administrators have admitted that they do not have the cash to go much beyond the start of the season. If the SPFL allow Hearts in on a wing and a prayer, they must bear the consequences.

[CropleyWasGod]

Speedway operate a bond system. The authorities have been burned several times by promotions not able to finish a season. Now to enter any of the professional leagues a bond must be deposited.

The SPL had to pay to keep Gretna on life support for half a season. They could be stung again if Hearts are allowed to start this coming season. In hindsight it is obvious that Gretna were heading for a fall. The business model of playing home matches at Motherwell with a core support of 1,000 was bound to fail. Hearts look equally unsustainable.

Hearts' administrators have admitted that they do not have the cash to go much beyond the start of the season. If the SPFL allow Hearts in on a wing and a prayer, they must bear the consequences.

Interesting about speedway. Cheers.

I am guessing (it's all it can be) that the SPFL have had many discussions with BDO. Apparently, there were similar conversations during the Rangers story, which were bound by confidentiality. Perhaps they, too, have raised the issue of a bond....speculation, of course.... but a bond would almost certainly kill them off.

The SPFL have to consider their own legal position, too.... and, indeed, will probably be examining their insurance cover. It's perhaps fortunate in that respect that there is no sponsor yet, but a TV company might take a dim view of a 12-team league suddenly contracting halfway through the season.

As you say, the Gretna story has probably concentrated a few minds.

[brog]

The story that started it (Wilson is quoted in it) and a few tweets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/hearts-gamble-ko-nottingham-forest-2054467

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)6h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356708751379664897)
Like everyone I'd love Jason to stay as a Hearts player and I agree 100k in normal circumstances isn't good value BUT we are on our knees.

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)5h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356739135572152320)
Next bit. I've never claimed to represent any fans, I was asked my opinion on club refusing a 6 figure bid for a player

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson)4h (https://twitter.com/Real_C_Wilson/status/356740471499931648)
Granted the Record mentioned what we achieved with Rally, but again that's insignificant and unconnected. I simply gave my opinion

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

[CropleyWasGod]

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.:cb

[Makaveli]

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

[CropleyWasGod]

Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.:cb

Really, Spike?

You kept that quiet.

:greengrin

[Jack]

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

[Dunderhall]

I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.
I'm not sure I agree. They don't need the income at this point, they might argue not at all.
They are accountants like you say, so they would have sought third party advice I assume.
If the offer for Holt was close to market value and they declined then I'd agree with your point.
Even taking into consideration their current circumstances I don't think £100,100 was reasonable.

They did make a commitment for season ticket sales about no fire sales.
They had to stick to that to keep the fans on side, not impossible they may have to call on them again and their reputation will carry forward to the next football club they handle in admin.

If the offer was more reasonable then they could have argued it wasn't a fire sale, I don't accept they should accept any 6 figure sum that the Wilson guy was arguing.
That wouldn't change what's gone.

[CropleyWasGod]

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

I'm not shifting that victim status at all.... as I said, I'm in 2 minds about the situation, and am willing to be convinced either way.

One point, though. The creditors have more chance of getting something in a CVA if there are, say, 20 players than they would if there were only 15. The former would be more attractive to a buyer.

[Dashing Bob S]

The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

Yes, Craig is a smart, decent fellow. Unfortunately for him, and lucky for us, he, and those like him, are unlikely to get much of a hearing in Yamland. The default settings are deluded arrogance and self-pitying victimhood, and any Yam who doesn't do these (and there are a few) are pretty much wasting their time.

Good news for us, as these people lack the fundamental skill set to make a useful contribution to the saving of stamps, let alone a football club.

There has never in recorded human history, been a group of wheezing, shrivel-lunged paedophille asbestos victims who have successfully rescued a sporting club and, regarding events in Gorgie, one confidently expects this pattern to continue.

[steviehibsleith]

There bloody should be.

If there was, I'd be able to stay off here and get some real work done. :greengrin
You are doing real work so stay where you are :cb


Never in doubt.

The extra 3,000 season tickets will cover July/Aug, the SPL money from last season will cover September and maybe some of October, the walk-ups might just about cover up to November .. December will be a real struggle .. and then they're finished.
Wonder how many walk ups there will be when the results are not favourable, they struggled against a Pars team at the weekend . They could still be on minus points come November.

[clerriehibs]

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

They won't be limited to their current player pool.

They'll be allowed to sign and play as many "triallists" as they have the gall to do so.

[marinello59]

They won't be limited to their current player pool.

They'll be allowed to sign and play as many "triallists" as they have the gall to do so.

Not if they are still in the top league they won't. And if they are in a lower league the number appearing in each match and the number of appearances each one can make is limited. Don't stress yourself.:greengrin

[gogsy23]

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

He a banker..... no really he is!! Quite funny really jkb getting their knickers in a twist over an opinion then playing the ginger card.

[Col2]

On hols. Siting in a fabulous hotel waiting to go to dinner with gin and tonic in hand in one of many bars which are fantastic in hotel. Wife and kids getting ready still!!

Anyway if someone new dropped into the hertz saga and asked for a summary eg bring it up a few levels.

They are in admin. They start next season on -15 points. They can't sign any players and won't be able to for a long time. The bid to move out of admin is based on 3 bids, one from the comedy club that is the FoH and meant to be to be the lowest. The other two bids are from sources thy even we as Hibs fans couldnt have dreamt up in the ideal scenario. They have a very inexperienced squad and inexperienced manager and they are favourites for the drop if they make it into next season. Odds seen to be against them coming out of admin with liquidation more likely but its still in balance.

Trust me the above feels SO GOOD !!!!

[Sanger]

On hols. Siting in a fabulous hotel waiting to go to dinner with gin and tonic in hand in one of many bars which are fantastic in hotel. Wife and kids getting ready still!!

Anyway if someone new dropped into the hertz saga and asked for a summary eg bring it up a few levels.

They are in admin. They start next season on -15 points. They can't sign any players and won't be able to for a long time. The bid to move out of admin is based on 3 bids, one from the comedy club that is the FoH and meant to be to be the lowest. The other two bids are from sources thy even we as Hibs fans couldnt have dreamt up in the ideal scenario. They have a very inexperienced squad and inexperienced manager and they are favourites for the drop if they make it into next season. Odds seen to be against them coming out of admin with liquidation more likely but its still in balance.

Trust me the above feels SO GOOD !!!!
BDO desperately hoping UbIG into admin early August or its plan Morton I have heard!

[ronaldo7]

BDO desperately hoping UbIG into admin early August or its plan Morton I have heard!

It would have to be really early in August. The season starts on Friday the 2nd August.:greengrin

plan Morton after the season starts is a non starter for me. If Hertz were pumped oot, it would have an effect on all the leagues.

[jacomo]

According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us :cb

Not even a Hearts fan... jeez, how bad is it with Banderson?

When reading his tripe I have often thought 'ah well, he's hurting so that probably explains his willingness to publish any positive titbits on them, no matter how pish, while slagging off Hibs at the same time.

But if he's not even a Hearts fan, he's an even worse journalist than I thought.

[brog]

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..


I'm not sure I agree. They don't need the income at this point, they might argue not at all.
They are accountants like you say, so they would have sought third party advice I assume.
If the offer for Holt was close to market value and they declined then I'd agree with your point.
Even taking into consideration their current circumstances I don't think £100,100 was reasonable.

They did make a commitment for season ticket sales about no fire sales.
They had to stick to that to keep the fans on side, not impossible they may have to call on them again and their reputation will carry forward to the next football club they handle in admin.

If the offer was more reasonable then they could have argued it wasn't a fire sale, I don't accept they should accept any 6 figure sum that the Wilson guy was arguing.
That wouldn't change what's gone.

I doubt very much that they would have sought any advice. I think part of the problem is the 2 key players with BDO have been involved in several football admins & 1 is an ex player. As such I believe they consider themselves knowledgeable on football matters & as a result are making decisions which they would not do in a non football admin situation.
Now is £100,000 a reasonable offer for Holt? Only time will tell but we would have bitten someone's hand off if they'd offered that for Spoony & his pedigree, international recognition & experience are all way ahead of Holt. All Holt has is potential which may or may not be realised & we should not fall into he trap of believing that Yams really do have the best youngsters in the UK. I can see the argument of needing to keep a team on the park but in that case Yams should not have advertised all players as being for sale. In any case that argument really fails because we all know if bid had been double or treble the amount offered he would now be at Forest.
It all keeps the pot boiling though & internal strife amongst Yams will only continue to grow.

[Waxy]

Maybe just that BDO want to make and keep a good reputation. Trying to do whats best for each team insures this amongst football clubs. This in turn gets them more admin jobs and of course more money.Even if the yams are donald ducked do BDO really care? I doubt it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe just that BDO want to make and keep a good reputation. Trying to do whats best for each team insures this amongst football clubs. This in turn gets them more admin jobs and of course more money.Even if the yams are donald ducked do BDO really care? I doubt it.

Quite the opposite, actually. If an administrator gets the reputation of doing what's best for "the club", rather than the creditors, the chances are that those who actually have the power to appoint administrators (banks, secured creditors, HMRC etc) will stop appointing them.

If BDO get a lot of football-related work, it's probably because they have a reputation amongst the appointers of doing their job better than others.

[Dunderhall]

I doubt very much that they would have sought any advice. I think part of the problem is the 2 key players with BDO have been involved in several football admins & 1 is an ex player. As such I believe they consider themselves knowledgeable on football matters & as a result are making decisions which they would not do in a non football admin situation.
Now is £100,000 a reasonable offer for Holt? Only time will tell but we would have bitten someone's hand off if they'd offered that for Spoony & his pedigree, international recognition & experience are all way ahead of Holt.
.

I'm not disagreeing, such is opinion.
I thought they may have consulted with others to his market value, it's never easy to agree what a player's worth is.
Many .netters upset over not paying £150K-£175K for Lyle Taylor whose pedigree is less.
They seemed to have pleased the core Yams as a bonus.

[grunt]

If BDO get a lot of football-related work, it's probably because they have a reputation amongst the appointers of doing their job better than others.It would be interesting to know why UKIO/UBIG wanted BDO as administrators...

[CropleyWasGod]

It would be interesting to know why UKIO/UBIG wanted BDO as administrators...

Funny handshake, of course.


:cb

[greenginger]

And then there were 2. ...... bidders that is
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-administration-sfa-may-thwart-massone-bid-1-3002335


Massone being black balled before the dealing starts.

[bingo70]

And then there were 2. ...... bidders that is
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-administration-sfa-may-thwart-massone-bid-1-3002335


Massone being black balled before the dealing starts.

He could still buy tynecastle though, that'd be interesting!

[brog]

I'm not disagreeing, such is opinion.
I thought they may have consulted with others to his market value, it's never easy to agree what a player's worth is.
Many .netters upset over not paying £150K-£175K for Lyle Taylor whose pedigree is less.
They seemed to have pleased the core Yams as a bonus.

I agree 100% re the difficulty of valuing a player which is why I have some sympathy with Craig Wilson. Yams/BDO should really be managing their core business effectively, including player sales if required, rather than surviving through people selling cherished memorabilia, cake bakes & fraudulent share issues. I want to see a Yam team on the park that makes Gretna look like Barcelona! Only then will they start to receive the appropriate punishment for their crimes.

[Spike Mandela]

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/#more-3861

[jacomo]

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/#more-3861

Portsmouth were in admin for a very long time but no mention of a Newco here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22167294

They suffered a 10 point penalty too... :confused:

[Treadstone]

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/#more-3861

Take anything on that website with a pinch of salt. All articles are designed to wound sevco. He posted up a piece about the yams a couple of months ago that was error strewn. Hope they get whats coming though.:aok:

[Mac]

Portsmouth were in admin for a very long time but no mention of a Newco here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22167294

They suffered a 10 point penalty too... :confused:

No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/#more-3861

For me, that article is just a different slant on the "same club vs different club" debate that will rage around Rangers for ever, and will do the same around hearts if they go down the NewCo route.

[southsider]

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.

[CropleyWasGod]

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.

And we're off. :greengrin

(being pedantic, it wasn't a "temporary licence". It was Associate Membership)

[Tollhouse Hibee]

And we're off. :greengrin

(being pedantic, it wasn't a "temporary licence". It was Associate Membership)


whatever the membership i think its critical that the same rules are applied, and it is clear to everyone what the punishmnets are for administration and/or liquidation.

[therealgavmac]

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.


Sorry your post doesn't count.... End of wasn't in capital letters....... :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

For me, that article is just a different slant on the "same club vs different club" debate that will rage around Rangers for ever, and will do the same around hearts if they go down the NewCo route.

Maybe more clear cut with a new Hearts if they were no longer at Tynecastle or were to have a season out because of time constraints setting up the newco.

[joe breezy]

No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

Seems strange that Portsmouth Newco were automatically allowed to stay in the EFL though...

Different rules I suppose

[jacomo]

No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

Am I missing something? How about this article, which also quotes Trevor Birch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106528


The Football League had warned that if Pompey did not exit administration by the end of the season it would remove the club's Golden Share and expel them, and Birch revealed they had been close to extinction several times over the past 14 months.

"You try to divorce yourself from the personal aspect of it. Because I am an officer of the court you have to be independent - but you can't help be satisfied that the club is in the hands of the supporters because it's gone through so much," he added.

"It needs some nurturing and some TLC and who better to dispense that than the supporters?

"They were very close [to being liquidated]."

This says that Portsmouth were NOT liquidated and it's therefore the same company as before, just with different owners.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Am I missing something? How about this article, which also quotes Trevor Birch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106528



This says that Portsmouth were NOT liquidated and it's therefore the same company as before, just with different owners.

You're missing the fact that the authorities in England aren't that bothered whether a club has to form a new company. What he means by "close to being liquidated" in that quote is that Portsmouth FC would have ceased to exist completely and that there would have been no new company.

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2262996/bdo-administrators-confirm-sale-of-portsmouth-fc


The administrators will now transfer the assets of the club, such as player contracts, to a new entity, which is likely to be called the Portsmouth Community Football Club, and will be owned by the PST.

The original 'club' Portsmouth Football Club (2010) Ltd, remains in administration and will be liquidated shortly, with BDO partners to be appointed.

[Keith_M]

You know, I have trouble remembering the Bad Old Days when the Close Season was spent discussing such mundane matters as who we'd lose before the Transfer Window was finished and how Petrie was such a tight Ars* by not allowing the manager to sign Messi or Ronaldo.

Such innocent times, before the annual Administration/CVA/Liquidation era.


I wonder whose turn it'll be next summer :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

You know, I have trouble remembering the Bad Old Days when the Close Season was spent discussing such mundane matters as who we'd lose before the Transfer Window was finished and how Petrie was such a tight Ars* by not allowing the manager to sign Messi or Ronaldo.

Such innocent times, before the annual Administration/CVA/Liquidation era.


I wonder whose turn it'll be next summer :greengrin

Us. I read it on kickback.

[Keith_M]

Us. I read it on kickback.


:tsk tsk:


You'll go blind!

[Wee Scottie Dug]

whatever the membership i think its critical that the same rules are applied, and it is clear to everyone what the punishmnets are for administration and/or liquidation.

It's not a 'punishment' , it's a 'consequence' of administration or liquidation ...... :rules:

Only sevco and potentially yamco fans think it was a punishment ..... :greengrin

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130716/commercial-call-to-arms-to-edinburgh-business-community-_2241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

[Speedway]

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130716/commercial-call-to-arms-to-edinburgh-business-community-_2241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

Because they're an institution.

[Spike Mandela]

Totally baffling...

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

Buckstone roofing.........:faf::faf::jamboclow

[Makaveli]

"Welcome to Hearts." :wtf:

[JoeTortolanoFanClub]

Because they're an institution.

Aye, and so is HMP Saughton !

[Ozyhibby]

There is a fair chance their commercial income has totally dried up as no company can justify paying in advance for a service to a company in admin.

[jacomo]

Nice to hear from David Southern. Has he spent the last month writing that?

[O'Rourke3]

Could we no sponsor them likesy :cb

[AndyM_1875]

You're missing the fact that the authorities in England aren't that bothered whether a club has to form a new company. What he means by "close to being liquidated" in that quote is that Portsmouth FC would have ceased to exist completely and that there would have been no new company.

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2262996/bdo-administrators-confirm-sale-of-portsmouth-fc

Correct. In a rare moment of sense last summer Neil Doncaster alluded to that. It was not something that was either unknown or uncommon in England and the examples of Middlesbrough, Leeds, Plymouth, Rotherham and I think Crystal Palace (i may be wrong on that one) amongst others were all thrown up as examples.
Neither the authorities nor most of the clubs really give a toss about it beyond fixtures being fulfilled.

Indeed English friends of mine were somewhat taken aback by the reaction of the Scottish clubs to the Rangers fiasco describing Rangers as a feeding frenzy, nothing more than a chance to put the boot in to the fallen school bully. Having deliberately distanced myself from as much Rangers chat as possible and avoiding anything that smells of self righteous hysterical Sellik blogger i can see that point of view.

However for our pink chums Rangers is the precedent. Division3 awaits.


Maybe more clear cut with a new Hearts if they were no longer at Tynecastle or were to have a season out because of time constraints setting up the newco.

The big fear is that they start the season and go pop before it ends. Will Neil Doncaster have a plan in place to deal with such a scenario? Will he pre-empt it by sticking Hearts in Division 1 and promoting Morton? That would require the foresight & vision to protect the showpiece league in Scotland.

I fear another fiasco awaits and Mr Doncaster will simply put his pants on his head, stick 2 pencils up his nose and say "Wibble!"

[Dunderhall]

However for our pink chums however Rangers is the precedent. Division3 awaits.
But with a decent deal for the main stand repairs from Buckstone Roofing.
Cash only.

[Mr White]

Surprised they didn't mention the best young players in Britain.

[Scònaldò]

Totally baffling...

[I]http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130716/commercial-call-to-arms-to-edinburgh-business-community-_2241384_3239826

They must be sending that out as emails as the company I work for got one begging us to buy tickets.

[Northernhibee]

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/racecards/20-07-2013/newmarket/racecard/573117/lettergold-maiden-stakes

Was initially amused at their "Rudi five one" horse, namely as it's named after a player who ****ed off as soon as the money dried up but might stick a sneaky twenty quid on "Tax Enough", would be good to see another Jambo ****ed over by Hector's horse :greengrin

[SkintHibby]

global media exposure :faf:

[The Green Goblin]

:faf:

"Global media exposure" was the bit that leapt out at me too. And I laughed like you did. Once a big club, always a big club I suppose. Complete trumpets the lot of them.

[brog]

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130716/commercial-call-to-arms-to-edinburgh-business-community-_2241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i seriously cannot think of another football club anywhere on planet earth that bum themselves up so much...honestly :titanic:

[GraniteCityHibs]

I fear another fiasco awaits and Mr Doncaster will simply put his pants on his head, stick 2 pencils up his nose and say "Wibble!"

Hahahaha brilliant

[sidneyhibbie]

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

The Fraud and Corruption of the yam suckers is beyond any sane persons mind, their party is over and the cold turkey of Liquidation will soon come to pass, but they have the answer which is bake cakes burry head in sand and cross fingers and all will be fine :confused:

['Mon the Hibs]

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

Surely businesses without emotional attachment to yamco (I.e. the vaguely credible ones) will realise that they'd need to look at investing in Hibs also, otherwise could alienate Hibs fans from their business. Therefore, would they look at paying for advertising/do corporate hospitality across both teams?? I would think not.

[CyberSauzee]

Sorry your post doesn't count.... End of wasn't in capital letters....... :greengrin

We should all be aware, by now I would have hoped, that all truisms are not just postfixed with 'end of' - or 'END OF' as gavmac has correctly pointed out; but we must also observe the more modern, correct term, that all 100% factual statements must have suffixed: 'Hibs.net fact. End of'.

I happened across this relatively recent phenomena when researching the humble metre and came upon this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre


2002 – The International Committee for Weights and Measures (CIPM) considers the metre to be a unit of proper length and thus recommends this definition be restricted to "lengths ℓ which are sufficiently short for the effects predicted by general relativity to be negligible with respect to the uncertainties of realisation". Hibs.net fact. End of. [27]

From there I looked up the current thinking on Einstein's theories, and there too I found some absolute truths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity#Current_status


General relativity has emerged as a highly successful model of gravitation and cosmology, which has so far passed many unambiguous observational and experimental tests. However, there are strong indications the theory is incomplete. Hibs.net fact. End of. [186]


Like all good hypotheses, there must be an opposite to these supreme statements of fact, if only to satisfy the venerable academic community; searching various 'papers' I came across this that I hope illustrates my thoughts concisely:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-476711/Hearts-reveal-stadium-plans-club-debt-set-soar.html


This new main stand would house 10,000 fans - replacing the current stand which cost £12,000 when it was built in 1914 - and would ensure Tynecastle, with 23,000 seats, has the fourth-largest football stadium capacity in Scotland. It was also confirmed that the Tynecastle pitch will be compliant with UEFA regulations for European competition. YAM LIE. UNTRUTH.

[Onion]

There is a fair chance their commercial income has totally dried up as no company can justify paying in advance for a service to a company in admin.

or associated with a company who might ultimately be at the heart of illegal activities such as money laundering and fraud (allegedly).

[Springbank]

Dear mr Southern

I'm a businessman and I'm itching to take a hospitality package from hearts in February 2014. Three quick questions:

Can you guarantee the game will actually take place?

Should I address my check to BDO, HMFC ltd, FoH or the Cosa Nostra?

Or are you being premature here?

Yours etc etc

[Moulin Yarns]

Nice to hear from David Southern. Has he spent the last month writing that?

Ghost written by Sidney :greengrin

[ancienthibby]

Dear mr Southern

I'm a businessman and I'm itching to take a hospitality package from hearts in February 2014. Three quick questions:

Can you guarantee the game will actually take place?

Should I address my check to BDO, HMFC ltd, FoH or the Cosa Nostra?

Or are you being premature here?

Yours etc etc

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

[Golden Bear]

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

:agree:

I just heard that.

Oh dear what a terrible start of the day for me.:wink:

:greengrin

[Onceinawhile]

So that just leaves the foh. What was their offer?

10 glass bottles of irn bru, a 20 deck of Lambert and butler and whatever change is chucked from the away end for the next season.

[JimBHibees]

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

Couldnt agree more how is that weasel still allowed to speak for that shambles of a club.

[Hibby70]

Totally baffling...

[I]http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130716/commercial-call-to-arms-to-edinburgh-business-community-_2241384_3239826
"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of a tree.


Fixed that for them.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

They just have no shame - selling hospitality when they dont even know if they will still be alive!

Anyway - just noticed the irony of tomorrow, they are up in front of the SFA to get hammered for their insolvency event, and we are playing in europe! remind me who is the wee team??

[Andy74]

So that just leaves the foh. What was their offer?

10 glass bottles of irn bru, a 20 deck of Lambert and butler and whatever change is chucked from the away end for the next season.

The FoH thing depends on what capital they have been able to borrow or have been given by investors. The pledges are not going to be able to fund the takeover itself. Can't see them being able to pay what the stadium is even worth but Rangers showed you never know!

[Sanger]

:agree:

I just heard that.

Oh dear what a terrible start of the day for me.:wink:

:greengrin
Oh dear spoilt the 2nd last day of my hols. Bob the salesman is proving to be a serial hoax bidder much as we thought. With Massone bid questionable given he's only ever put a pound on the table and not paid the Lecky bill that leaves us with FOH £1.8m upfront. RiP HMFC here comes liquidation !


The FoH thing depends on what capital they have been able to borrow or have been given by investors. The pledges are not going to be able to fund the takeover itself. Can't see them being able to pay what the stadium is even worth but Rangers showed you never know!

With Ukio Bankas having security over Tynie and BDO saying if bidders offer £1m and property developer offers £5m they will take £5m there will not be another Gers or by the looks of it s HMFC!

[AndyM_1875]

i seriously cannot think of another football club anywhere on planet earth that bum themselves up so much...honestly :titanic:

It really is a baffling mindset.and the delusion is staggering. It's the same mindset that lurks behind the FoH bid too.

The FoH bid as we all know consists of
"Hi! We're really nice. Ken Stott likes us. He's a nice famous Scottish actor. We have 2 million pounds. Can we exchange that for a CVA on £25m of debt and we want you to throw in the 5m stadium too. Fair enough?
We're really nice, Would you like some cake......"

[Peevemor]

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

But surely they'd simply be holding the money back from themselves? So where's the problem? :greengrin

[greenginger]

With Ukio Bankas having security over Tynie and BDO saying if bidders offer £1m and property developer offers £5m they will take £5m there will not be another Gers or by the looks of it s HMFC!

Spoke with our Council Estates Dept. yesterday and was told the sales brochure for old Tynecastle School are ready and will go on line today.

We will see what uses are being suggested for this site and if any particular reference is made to the distillery.

If it says what I think it will say I am going to forward a copy to BDO just to remind them Hibs.net are watching them ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

Given that the original offer was reported as, variously, between £2m and £5m..... does that mean the revised offer is now negative?

Negative points = negative value. :greengrin

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....

[YehButNoBut]

BBC report on Club 9 Sports withholding funds for Hearts bid, FOH the only show in town??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23340145

Hearts: Club 9 Sports withhold funds for HMFC Ltd bid

The company behind one of the bidders for Hearts, HMFC Ltd, is withholding £5m that was to be used to buy the club, BBC Scotland has learned.

A dispute has arisen between US-based Club 9 Sports and UK businessman Bob Jamieson, who has tabled an offer on behalf of HMFC Ltd.

Club 9 Sports are believed to be looking for a 75% shareholding.

The dispute places the HMFC Ltd bid in doubt, with two other offers on the table for the club in administration.

Fans' group the Foundation of Hearts and Five Stars Football Ltd, who have former Livingston owner Angelo Massone as a director , are also seeking to take control at Tynecastle.

The HMFC Ltd bid is in the region of £2.5m up front with a further £2.5m being made available for working capital.

[TornadoHibby]

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....

Kept him in the Hearts fans "good books" by suggesting to them that the cash he was playing with was actually in his power to allocate in such cavalier fashion to anyone who looked more than once at the state of the club, it's stadium, it's business model and the state of Scottish football generally! :confused: :dunno:

Was good for his ego? :confused: :dunno:

Short answer is, we'll probably never know! :agree:

[Sanger]

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....
Magic beans the Lith tax payer is now paying £65 million in real money for. Romanov did it just to make it look like the debt was not spiralling out of control.

[sidneyhibbie]

Spoke with our Council Estates Dept. yesterday and was told the sales brochure for old Tynecastle School are ready and will go on line today.

We will see what uses are being suggested for this site and if any particular reference is made to the distillery.

If it says what I think it will say I am going to forward a copy to BDO just to remind them Hibs.net are watching them ! :greengrin

Excellent work, i have also contacted them for an information schedule of the site for sale we must keep watching this BDO Mob i am still of the opinion they are not or will not act in the best interest of the creditors which is what they should be doing.

[s.a.m]

Did he not have to do the debt for equity thing to keep the club's debts below an agreed limit? :dunno:

I seem to remember that the accounts used to finish with a statement that the debt would be reduced through increased participation in European competition.:greengrin
Didnae happen, so he had to move debt around the 'empire' to balance the books, is how I remember it. Probably wrong though, so much has happened it's hard to keep track of!

[CropleyWasGod]

Excellent work, i have also contacted them for an information schedule of the site for sale we must keep watching this BDO Mob i am still of the opinion they are not or will not act in the best interest of the creditors which is what they should be doing.

You're doing it again, Sidney.:rolleyes:


Did he not have to do the debt for equity thing to keep the club's debts below an agreed limit? :dunno:

I seem to remember that the accounts used to finish with a statement that the debt would be reduced through increased participation in European competition.:greengrin
Didnae happen, so he had to move debt around the 'empire' to balance the books, is how I remember it. Probably wrong though, so much has happened it's hard to keep track of!

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

[s.a.m]

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

...and if you were a gambling man, the alternative might, hypothetically and allegedly :wink:, be...?



The debt for equity swaps used to take place, IIRC, around the time of the Accounts publication, and were usually accompanied by a statement that the debt was reduced :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

...and if you were a gambling man, the alternative might, hypothetically and allegedly :wink:, be...?



The debt for equity swaps used to take place, IIRC, around the time of the Accounts publication, and were usually accompanied by a statement that the debt was reduced :dunno:

Still think it was window dressing, but not so sure for who's benefit. Whereas, previously, I thought it was for HMFC's benefit (ie to stave off any insolvency event)... now I tend to think it was for the benefit of the Lith Stock Exchange. UBIG's own Balance Sheet might be viewed more favourably with an investment in a "football club with clear European potential" :greengrin than a loan to a company that was clearly bust.

[greenginger]

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

They even managed a new slant on it in the 2011 - 12 accounts. Debt for imaginary transfer fees.

£ 2.9 million added to their income side by UBIG because of an "agreement" with Kaunus FC they did'nt honour. Pure Fraud , but I doubt the SFA will even know.

[s.a.m]

Still think it was window dressing, but not so sure for who's benefit. Whereas, previously, I thought it was for HMFC's benefit (ie to stave off any insolvency event)... now I tend to think it was for the benefit of the Lith Stock Exchange. UBIG's own Balance Sheet might be viewed more favourably with an investment in a "football club with clear European potential" :greengrin than a loan to a company that was clearly bust.

:aok:

[hibs0666]

Just so it's not forgotten, Mr David Holmes of Johnston Carmichael was the auditor that was happy to sign off Hearts accounts in April 2013, 72 days before Hearts entered administration.

[Treadstone]

I'm going the Sally Bercow route.

Money laundering.

Where's the innocent face smiley ?:duck:

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm going the Sally Bercow route.

Money laundering.

Where's the innocent face smiley ?:duck:

Didn't she get sued, though? :cb

[Treadstone]

Didn't she get sued, though? :cb

Aye, but i will use the twitter followers defence (not enough).:thumbsup:

ps and lost!

[Sylar]

There's not a hope on this earth that Angelo Massone will pass the "fit and proper person" test after what the ******* did to Livingston so FOH really must the only option now if the HMFC/Club 9 bid is in doubt.

If they're their own white knight, they're up the proverbial creek.

[sidneyhibbie]

So the shoe salesman is a Walter Mitty Massone is dodgy and the foh is stuck together with chewing gum no CVA Will be agreed

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye, but i will use the twitter followers defence (not enough).:thumbsup:

ps and lost!

Are you as good-looking as her, though? :greengrin

[BH Hibs]

So the shoe salesman is a Walter Mitty Massone is dodgy and the foh is stuck together with chewing gum no CVA Will be agreed

Time for Allisbarry to come along with some nonsense to cheer them up. What great creative masterpiece will he pen today? C'mon Barry lets be having you. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Magic beans the Lith tax payer is now paying £65 million in real money for. Romanov did it just to make it look like the debt was not spiralling out of control.

I think the debt for equity swap improved the books by swapping debt for an "asset". Obviously, this was only superficial, and if any actually looked at Hearts for a second then alarm bells would have gone off.