Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Leithenhibby]

Thought this had been sorted??????!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24704436

I think it has, but not officially :wink: Like this whole affair, clear as mud :greengrin

[brog]

I didn't ask but they were paid a good while ago. I think when Stenny went to the league, Hearts had a choice of paying up or the money being taken off their TV payments.

Seems stange then that they're on creditors list as of 3 months ago. Do you know what the debt was for & how long it had been outstanding?
Thanks for info.

[Jim44]

I can't believe there's still a yam gravy train. Time for those reporters to dig (not very deep) for the news and stop being gorgie press officers.

With Sevco it was 'succulent lamb', with them it's more like 'dry hamburger'. :-)

[SloopJB]

See Gary Naysmith is staying at East Fife til the end of the season.

Season must finish on 31/01/14.

the festive season

[Gus Fring]

The decision on UBIG will be announced on the 7th of November

[Spike Mandela]

The decision on UBIG will be announced on the 7th of November

Why the delay Bajillions? Is it just Lith legal procedure?

[Moulin Yarns]

The decision on UBIG will be announced on the 7th of November


Pleasing :wink:

Is there any chance that it won't be a straightforward announcement of the administrator? Could it be worse than that for THEM?

[The Green Goblin]

Slightly off topic here, but all the stuff on this thread about the creditors list and the absence of any kind of expressed regret towards them and all the rest of it (I have read every post) only added to that sick feeling in my stomach as I watched the bloodied turd hordes celebrating in our away stand last night. I just needed to share that thought.

[Gus Fring]

Pleasing :wink:

Is there any chance that it won't be a straightforward announcement of the administrator? Could it be worse than that for THEM?

I've not heard anything else other than that at this time. I believe the delay is simply because the judge in charge of this case is busy.

That's not to say it won't all kick off when the administrator starts has had a wee shufty at UBIG's previous dealings :wink:


Slightly off topic here, but all the stuff on this thread about the creditors list and the absence of any kind of expressed regret towards them and all the rest of it (I have read every post) only added to that sick feeling in my stomach as I watched the bloodied turd hordes celebrating in our away stand last night. I just needed to share that thought.

Remember that feeling in may when they get relegated :wink:

[hibees 7062]

Slightly off topic here, but all the stuff on this thread about the creditors list and the absence of any kind of expressed regret towards them and all the rest of it (I have read every post) only added to that sick feeling in my stomach as I watched the bloodied turd hordes celebrating in our away stand last night. I just needed to share that thought.

:agree::agree:

[Ozyhibby]

Remember that feeling in may when they get relegated :wink:

If they get relegated in May they'll have dodged a very big bullet which the in the know posters on here claimed was impossible.

[QMU-1875]

If they get relegated in May they'll have dodged a very big bullet which the in the know posters on here claimed was impossible.

Why no just say what this bullet is instead of acting all secretive?

[Ozyhibby]

Why no just say what this bullet is instead of acting all secretive?

Eh? I'm talking about liquidation and the frozen shares. No big secret.

[Gus Fring]

Eh? I'm talking about liquidation and the frozen shares. No big secret.

As it stands, the shares are still frozen and there's absolutely no reason to be believe they will unfrozen any time soon. It's entirely possible Hearts will still be in admin come May. Even if they do somehow get out of this utter mess they are in, their new business plan is fundamentally and horrifically flawed.

[Sergey]

As it stands, the shares are still frozen and there's absolutely no reason to be believe they will unfrozen any time soon. It's entirely possible Hearts will still be in admin come May. Even if they do somehow get out of this utter mess they are in, their new business plan is fundamentally and horrifically flawed.

This is the hymn-sheet that I've been singing from since they entered administration. No UBIG shares = No sale to FoH.

I'm personally betwixt between on their final outcome. Stumbling-on, month-to month in a lower league satisfies me, with the prospect of further administration only a few cancelled direct debits away - or having them liquidised. It's a tough call.

[Gus Fring]

This is the hymn-sheet that I've been singing from since they entered administration. No UBIG shares = No sale to FoH.

I'm personally betwixt between on their final outcome. Stumbling-on, month-to month in a lower league satisfies me, with the prospect of further administration only a few cancelled direct debits away - or having them liquidised. It's a tough call.

The 2 are likely to be the same. If they get liquidated FOH will buy up the scraps and start a new Hearts who will struggle in the lower leagues

[Ozyhibby]

Liquidation means the loss of Tynecastle. That's the one for me.

[Dashing Bob S]

The 2 are likely to be the same. If they get liquidated FOH will buy up the scraps and start a new Hearts who will struggle in the lower leagues

In the interests of sporting fairness, I think they deserve a shot at making the lower leagues by the administration route, before being fast-tracked through liquidation.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they get relegated in May they'll have dodged a very big bullet which the in the know posters on here claimed was impossible.

They can be relegated whilst still in administration, and be liquidated later.

[Mikey]

They can be relegated whilst still in administration, and be liquidated later.

And there will still be someone who comes along and tells us that they got away with it.

[Billy Whizz]

They can be relegated whilst still in administration, and be liquidated later.

Can they be kicked out the League Cup if they are liquidated as well!
Clutching at straws now

[CropleyWasGod]

Liquidation means the loss of Tynecastle. That's the one for me.

It doesn't necessarily, if someone decides to buy Tynie as a football stadium and rent it to them.

[portycabbage]

Just hearing that they have agreed a CVA.










Forthwith, their new designation will be: Consenting Vagina Avoiders.

I think the above amendment works as well.:wink:

[Leithenhibby]

I needed cheering up tonight and this thread just keeps delivering :wink:

Pleasing.........

11232

[AndyB_70]

I needed cheering up tonight and this thread just keeps delivering :wink:

Pleasing.........

11232

I so would ;)

[greenginger]

Just a thought on the frozen Yam shares and a way the Merricks might use to get round the problem.

Could the UBIG administrator enter into an agreement to sell the shares to FoH once they become unfrozen . Would a signed contract with an agreed price to acquire the frozen shares be enough to allow the CVA to proceed, that's assuming that there is also enough cash on the table to satisfy the Secured Creditor ?

[Gus Fring]

Just a thought on the frozen Yam shares and a way the Merricks might use to get round the problem.

Could the UBIG administrator enter into an agreement to sell the shares to FoH once they become unfrozen . Would a signed contract with an agreed price to acquire the frozen shares be enough to allow the CVA to proceed, that's assuming that there is also enough cash on the table to satisfy the Secured Creditor ?

That would imply they will become unfrozen. We don't know what clad and his cronies were upto yet but I'm betting it wasn't kosher. " innocent men don't run"

[clerriehibs]

We gave them a confidence boost in August that set them on a wee run, along with something like £90,000 for their coffers.

This week, we've given them another confidence boost,just as they were on a count of 9 - and set them up for a further c. £200, 000 to see them through a wee bit longer.

Another two games against us (likely) may well be exactly what they need to see them through to the end of the season and still in the top division.

Which is actually as sickening as the simple fact of losing to them when we shouldn't.

[Hibrandenburg]

We gave them a confidence boost in August that set them on a wee run, along with something like £90,000 for their coffers.

This week, we've given them another confidence boost,just as they were on a count of 9 - and set them up for a further c. £200, 000 to see them through a wee bit longer.

Another two games against us (likely) may well be exactly what they need to see them through to the end of the season and still in the top division.

Which is actually as sickening as the simple fact of losing to them when we shouldn't.

One more reason why we need a top 6 finish.

[#FromTheCapital]

We gave them a confidence boost in August that set them on a wee run, along with something like £90,000 for their coffers.

This week, we've given them another confidence boost,just as they were on a count of 9 - and set them up for a further c. £200, 000 to see them through a wee bit longer.

Another two games against us (likely) may well be exactly what they need to see them through to the end of the season and still in the top division.

Which is actually as sickening as the simple fact of losing to them when we shouldn't.

Unless we draw them in the Scottish cup they'll only make any money from us once more this season, and that's a guaranteed fixture in March before the split (on the assumption they're not liquidated by then). If we finish in the bottom six then the last derby of the season will be at ER. If you're talking purely about confidence boosts I'd like to think that Wednesday night will be the last time they beat us this season. Lets not forget how awful they are and how lucky they were on Wednesday

[StevieC]

and set them up for a further c. £200, 000 to see them through a wee bit longer

I was saying this to a friend before the game, although I calculated it to be nearer 100,000 due to the teams playing and it being a midweek evening game, and how they'd have been laughing all the way to the bank if they got through.

[greenginger]

That would imply they will become unfrozen. We don't know what clad and his cronies were upto yet but I'm betting it wasn't kosher. " innocent men don't run"


I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.

UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.

Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.

UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.

Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin

vlads niece has another 15% does she not? so wouldn't be a major share holding

[Ozyhibby]

I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.

UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.

Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin

If they shares are frozen then it would be difficult to strike a deal to sell them if someone else has a claim on them.

[dangermouse]

I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.

UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.

Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin

There are another 10% of shares (certificates yet to be issued) "owned" by Joe Public with the money resting in an overseas account somewhere. I'd imagine they'd be quite difficult to come by.

[Leithenhibby]

I would have thought the shares would have to become unfrozen sometime. Be it 3, 5, or 15 years, if they have an agreement in place to acquire them is that enough for a CVA to progress.

UBIG have 49.47% of the shares so if FoH get every other share they could have majority holding.

Can someone please tell me this won't work . :greengrin


Do they though?
Has it been confirmed that UBIG have the shares?, it's a long shot for sure, but maybe they have gone elsewhere! Just maybe :aok:

[mutley]

Unless we draw them in the Scottish cup they'll only make any money from us once more this season, and that's a guaranteed fixture in March before the split (on the assumption they're not liquidated by then). If we finish in the bottom six then the last derby of the season will be at ER. If you're talking purely about confidence boosts [B] i'd like to think that Wednesday night will be the last time they beat us this season. [\B] Lets not forget how awful they are and how lucky they were on Wednesday

I think we all thought that after the last defeat earlier this season !

[Keith_M]

.....If you're talking purely about confidence boosts I'd like to think that Wednesday night will be the last time they beat us this season. Lets not forget how awful they are and how lucky they were on Wednesday


Well, they're two-for-two so far this season, so I really don't share your confidence.

[RickyS]

Well, they're two-for-two so far this season, so I really don't share your confidence.

me neither, with mupPAT in charge they will be confident we wont beat them this season, an easy 6 points. I would if i was a puddle drinker

[AndyB_70]

No one has updated the status of the YAMs demise since yesterday afternoon. It was lurking down on page 2. Did something happen to yesterday that made us all focus 100% on Hibs? Shame on you all :na na:

[gorgie greens]

because Hearts went into admin before the season 2013/2014 started they got a 15 point deduction,so does that mean at the end of the season hopefully they should be relegated,if saying that with the legal cases going on regarding financial wrong doing and the frozen shares they may well still be in admin,would they then incur another 15 point deduction going in to the following season or is that just wishfull thinking on my part:confused:

[brog]

because Hearts went into admin before the season 2013/2014 started they got a 15 point deduction,so does that mean at the end of the season hopefully they should be relegated,if saying that with the legal cases going on regarding financial wrong doing and the frozen shares they may well still be in admin,would they then incur another 15 point deduction going in to the following season or is that just wishfull thinking on my part:confused:

You're correct, they'll be hit with another penalty if still in admin at end of his season.

[Onceinawhile]

You're correct, they'll be hit with another penalty if still in admin at end of his season.

I assume that it'll be a third of their gross points total rather than net of the current 15 point deduction?

[gorgie greens]

I assume that it'll be a third of their gross points total rather than net of the current 15 point deduction?

they might end up getting a points start because at this rate they might end the season still on a minus points total :greengrin

[matty_f]

I assume that it'll be a third of their gross points total rather than net of the current 15 point deduction?

I think the 15 points is the minimum.

[Mikey]

I think the 15 points is the minimum.

Yep. The race to zero will start all over again :agree:

[hibees 7062]

I think the 15 points is the minimum.

And the -12 from sevco , -27 and counting :greengrin

[mutley]

And the -12 from sevco , -27 and counting :greengrin

Double relegation , now that I would find very "pleasing"

[Hermit Crab]

Double relegation , now that I would find very "pleasing"

What would be even more pleasing would be to officially relegate them in the last derby of the season. That would be the ultimate daffy duck gif moment.

[Glory Lurker]

What would be even more pleasing would be to officially relegate them in the last derby of the season. That would be the ultimate daffy duck gif moment.


Where's your ambition, man? Is there no way we could relegate them on 2 Jan? :greengrin:flag:

[Hermit Crab]

Where's your ambition, man? Is there no way we could relegate them on 2 Jan? :greengrin:flag:

Would be nice but I reckon there's no chance unfortunately.

[Onion]

Where's your ambition, man? Is there no way we could relegate them on 2 Jan? :greengrin:flag:

After Wed's horror, the very last team we want to play again is the Yams. If they get relegated it will be in spite of us rather than because so let's just leave it to the proper football teams to sort them out :cb

[#FromTheCapital]

Take it there's no been much happening since the CVA announcement then? Sadly I don't think there's much chance of liquidation anymore. They'll prob stay in admin for a while yet until the UBIG shares problem is resolved. But ultimately I think it will be resolved, it's just a matter of when. They'll still struggle with FoH in charge and with the (hopefully) inevitable relegation. But in a few years they'll be back with a considerably better outlook and lower debt. Only problem they'll be left with will be their crumbling stadium and no funds to improve it unless god decides to do them a favour by lobbing a metior at it.

[SloopJB]

Take it there's no been much happening since the CVA announcement then? Sadly I don't think there's much chance of liquidation anymore. They'll prob stay in admin for a while yet until the UBIG shares problem is resolved. But ultimately I think it will be resolved, it's just a matter of when. They'll still struggle with FoH in charge and with the (hopefully) inevitable relegation. But in a few years they'll be back with a considerably better outlook and lower debt. Only problem they'll be left with will be their crumbling stadium and no funds to improve it unless god decides to do them a favour by lobbing a metior at it.
I have heard suggestions that the FOH is a cashless front to secure the club and will hand over everything in a debt for equity to those that fronted the money in the first place.
They are very optimistic.

Just sayin.

[bawheid]

Only problem they'll be left with will be their crumbling stadium and no funds to improve it unless god decides to do them a favour by lobbing a metior at it.

He tried that in December 1999 but the damn thing got caught in the back of the net.

[andrew70]

He tried that in December 1999 but the damn thing got caught in the back of the net.

^^^^ best post i've seen on here for ages. :top marks:sauzee:

[Jones28]

He tried that in December 1999 but the damn thing got caught in the back of the net.


:thumbsup::sauzee:

[greenginger]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DvjJ%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/verslas/bendroves/lietuva-su-bosnija-ir-hercegovina-bendradarbiaus-tiriant-ukio-banko-grupes-veikla-663-382166&usg=ALkJrhhFsd0f58m7z8ECVHATOwz-RJqhng

Hope this keeps the shares in the freezer for a few years.

[Geo_1875]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DvjJ%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/verslas/bendroves/lietuva-su-bosnija-ir-hercegovina-bendradarbiaus-tiriant-ukio-banko-grupes-veikla-663-382166&usg=ALkJrhhFsd0f58m7z8ECVHATOwz-RJqhng

Hope this keeps the shares in the freezer for a few years.

"Republic of Srpska in Banja Luka"

Come on. Now they're just inventing countries.

[SaulGoodman]

"Republic of Srpska in Banja Luka"

Come on. Now they're just inventing countries.

It's actually an Anagram of '5-1 **** the hibs'

[Part/Time Supporter]

"Republic of Srpska in Banja Luka"

Come on. Now they're just inventing countries.

Banja Luka is a city. Republic Srpska is the government for the Serbian bits of Bosnia.

[Geo_1875]

Banja Luka is a city. Republic Srpska is the government for the Serbian bits of Bosnia.

So you say!!!

[Sanger]

Bloomberg:

Ukio Bankas Seeks 1.3b Litai Damages From Ex-Owners, Directors

Romanov has repeatedly denied wrongdoing; prosecutors in July began international search for Romanov, who left Lithuania in May, BNS news service reported

Some Ukio loans went to now also bankrupt Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, through which Romanov controlled 79% of Scottish soccer club Heart of Midlothian

Lithuanian state deposit insurance, which borrowed money from govt for Ukio bankruptcy, is largest creditor


I think the fact that they are going after the directors/owners for the Lita 1.3 bn (£300 million) which is the rough cost of the bailout to make the depositors of Ukio whole. To me it means that the they are not going to hold Hearts responsible for the scam (although Bloomberg points out the Ukio’s loans went to UBIG and then on to Hearts something I have always maintained) and that will not punish what they see as an innocent party for Romanov’s £70 million Hearts scams. That to me leads me to believe that they will accept the CVA and at least obtain some of the money that Romanov blew.

[cabbageandribs1875]

One more reason why we need a top 6 finish.



the 4th league game against hertz would be at ER therefore they wouldn't get any more cash from a 4th game with us, unfortunately that would also mean us having to finish in the bottom 6

[Sergey]

98) Options BFW Nov 05 2013 14:37:56
Ukio Bankas Seeks 1.3b Litai Damages From Ex-Owners, Directors 91) ☆
it to insolvency
• NOTE: Romanov has repeatedly denied wrongdoing; prosecutors in July began
international search for Romanov, who left Lithuania in May, BNS news service
reported
• NOTE: Some Ukio loans went to now also bankrupt Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe,
through which Romanov controlled 79% of Scottish soccer club Heart of
Midlothian
• NOTE: Lithuanian state deposit insurance, which borrowed money from govt for
Ukio bankruptcy, is largest creditor
For Related News and Information:
First Word scrolling panel: FIRST<GO>
First Word newswire: NH BFW<GO>
To contact the reporter on this story:
Bryan Bradley in Vilnius at +44-20-7330-7500 or
[email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Balazs Penz at +36-1-475-1191 or
[email protected]

I might be missing something subliminal here, but where does that Bloomberg statement state that Adomis of the Ukio administrator is going to accept a CVA? As far as I'm aware, a CVA hasn't even been presented.

The crux of the story looks to be that the creditors of the bank are after 1.3 billion Lith Litas.

[Geo_1875]

I might be missing something subliminal here, but where does that Bloomberg statement state that Adomis of the Ukio administrator is going to accept a CVA? As far as I'm aware, a CVA hasn't even been presented.

The crux of the story looks to be that the creditors of the bank are after 1.3 billion Lith Litas.

1.3 billion Lith Litas = ???

[stokesmessiah]

1.3 billion Lith Litas = ???

£316m roughly

[Geo_1875]

£316m roughly

So they're going to try to sue absent directors of UKIO for £300m+ yet they'll let a £6m+ asset go for peanuts? Can't see it myself.

[Sergey]

1.3 billion Lith Litas = ???

This is actually yesterday's news and I'm not sure if it's 1.2 billion Litas or 1.2 billion US$ as this translated article states both: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DpDj%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/ukio-bankas-reikalaus-kad-buve-akcininkai-ir-vadovai-atlygintu-daugiau-nei-1-2-milijardo-litu-zala-56-382509&usg=ALkJrhhVPYVvybi-lXQBHyyGVZE2TWR-xw

This bit is pleasing:


"Applicant status will allow us to actively participate in the study and the basis for the suspects property ownership restrictions. In turn, this opens the way to search for a specific prosecutor to arrest assets. In other words, cooperation with law enforcement takes on the form and content and we will be much easier to arrest the former shareholders and managers of the property in order to ensure the bank's creditors and minority shareholders' interests ", - said the bank BAB An insolvency administrator Amber Adomonis.

I don't see the PBS and/or the UBIG shares changing hands any time soon, if indeed at all.

[Weststandwanab]

Not wishing to speak for desantos but is his post headline perhaps sarcastic? It is and he/she, in my opinion, types a lot of sense.


So they're going to try to sue absent directors of UKIO for £300m+ yet they'll let a £6m+ asset go for peanuts? Can't see it myself. Neither can I.

[Leishy1995]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/colin-tattum-comment-birmingham-city-6275309

Does anyone think Birmingham has something in common with our neighbours

[Dashing Bob S]

It is and he/she, in my opinion, types a lot of sense.

Neither can I.

I'm in that club - they are toast.

[SloopJB]

You're correct, they'll be hit with another penalty if still in admin at end of his season.
New rules might be in place by then.http://www.lawinsport.com/blog/adam-lovatt/item/are-the-scottish-professional-football-league-insolvency-rules-about-to-change?highlight=YToxMjp7aTowO3M6NDoicnVsZSI7aToxO 3M6NjoiY2hhbmdlIjtpOjI7czozOiJmb3IiO2k6MztzOjU6ImN sdWJzIjtpOjQ7czoyOiJpbiI7aTo1O3M6MTQ6ImFkbWluaXN0c mF0aW9uIjtpOjY7czoxMToicnVsZSBjaGFuZ2UiO2k6NztzOjE wOiJjaGFuZ2UgZm9yIjtpOjg7czo5OiJmb3IgY2x1YnMiO2k6O TtzOjEyOiJmb3IgY2x1YnMgaW4iO2k6MTA7czo4OiJjbHVicyB pbiI7aToxMTtzOjE3OiJpbiBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdGlvbiI7fQ==

[Radium]

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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000408623111/211a61795d357c6ea29726de804f75c9_normal.jpegBarry Anderson‏@BarryAnderson_8 (https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_8)

#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash)' administrators BDO have sent a CVA proposal to creditors for £2.5m sale of club to @The_FoH (https://twitter.com/The_FoH). Creditors' meeting on 22 Nov. #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)

[Kato]

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#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash)' administrators BDO have sent a CVA proposal to creditors for £2.5m sale of club to @The_FoH (https://twitter.com/The_FoH). Creditors' meeting on 22 Nov. #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)






Oooooh, juicy news from Barry Fandanderson.

'Mon, the Lithuanian Creditor's Association. Do the right thing, you owe to yourselves.

[Spike Mandela]

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#Hearts (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash)' administrators BDO have sent a CVA proposal to creditors for £2.5m sale of club to @The_FoH (https://twitter.com/The_FoH). Creditors' meeting on 22 Nov. #HMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HMFC&src=hash)




How could anyone owed £15m, with a security on a stadium for £6.8m POSSIBLY resist the offer of £2.5m? Yet we all know ultimately it will happen because the whole business of administration in football is ****ing corrupt.:cb

[EuanH78]

Hmmm pbs is surely worth significantly more than that alone?

[Arch Stanton]

It doesn't necessarily, if someone decides to buy Tynie as a football stadium and rent it to them.

Except that landlords tend to want references these days.

[Spike Mandela]

Hmmm pbs is surely worth significantly more than that alone?

Yeah, like Ibrox and Murray park was worth £1.5m and East End Park was worth £150,000.

[Famous Fiver]

Did the mad Italian not make an offer of £4 Mill which fell at the first fence. And how much did the gaga pensioner from Peebles bid? Sure it was at least 2.5 Mill. So how do BDO get the lot, lock stock and barrel for £2.5Mill?

[Spike Mandela]

Did the mad Italian not make an offer of £4 Mill which fell at the first fence. And how much did the gaga pensioner from Peebles bid? Sure it was at least 2.5 Mill. So how do BDO get the lot, lock stock and barrel for £2.5Mill?

Remember BDO fees will be off the total offer i presume.

[Ross4356]

Should know this since I've read this whole thread but what happens if UKIO admins accept the £2.5m, Do they get all the money & UBIG admins have to accept nothing for the shares?

[CRAZYHIBBY]

So are they going bust or not

[Part/Time Supporter]

So are they going bust or not

They went bust. The Lithuanians need to decide whether Hearts can be salvaged from that mess.


Should know this since I've read this whole thread but what happens if UKIO admins accept the £2.5m, Do they get all the money & UBIG admins have to accept nothing for the shares?

The FOH offer is for £2.5M for the stadium and £1 for the shares.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/247435-hearts-cva-proposal-of-25m-to-be-decided-by-creditors/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Did the mad Italian not make an offer of £4 Mill which fell at the first fence. And how much did the gaga pensioner from Peebles bid? Sure it was at least 2.5 Mill. So how do BDO get the lot, lock stock and barrel for £2.5Mill?

Those offers were ruled out more because the funding for them wasn't credible, rather than their size.

[StevieC]

Remember BDO fees will be off the total offer i presume.

I would have guessed the opposite.

The full £2.5m will be needed to appease the UKIO creditors. The BDO fee (and football debts) will be over and above that.

If you remember, there was a change to the wording of the administration process (back near the start) that basically stated that BDO had the ability to take expenses (ie their fee) from the "pot". That "pot" is getting smaller by the day and BDO may well be looking at rushing through a CVA with their fee in mind.

BDO don't have access to the direct debits, and FOH are unlikely to use these for the day to day running until they've secured control. BDO indicated at the start of the season that barely had enough to keep the team going till Christmas, and then it was curtains. The league cup game may have extended that slightly, and the upcoming Scottish Cup and semi-final games may give a little while longer, but we are into November now (and the shops are starting their Christmas promotions).

My guess would be that FOH have at most a (guesstimated) pot of £3.5m-£4m, and £2.5m is the best they can muster for a CVA for UKIO. There were rumblings that UKIO wanted £6m, indicated (publicly) that they might be willing to drop to £5m, and may have even taken £4m if pushed. £2.5m is nothing short of a kick in the teeth.


The FOH offer is for £2.5M for the stadium and £1 for the shares.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/247435-hearts-cva-proposal-of-25m-to-be-decided-by-creditors/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"Foundation of Hearts would also assume responsibility of the £535,000 of football debt that Hearts owes"

What relevence is that to UKIO?? :confused:
It makes no difference to them whether there's a football debt, or who does/doesn't pay it.
Can't see why it would even be mentioned in a CVA??

[Spike Mandela]

How do BDO get away with saying things like this without people actually laughing directly in their face.....

"BDO said the deal represents the best outcome for creditors of the Edinburgh club, with liquidation likely to realise less from the sale of the land."

It must be an open joke in administration circles where they all sit about in offices laughing their ***** off as they con people out of money. To me these scandals are up there with bankers bonuses, energy company price hikes and politician's expenses. They are shafting us all up the arse.


I would have guessed the opposite.

The full £2.5m will be needed to appease the UKIO creditors. The BDO fee (and football debts) will be over and above that.



Sorry Stevie, that's what I was meaning with my rather poor English.:agree:

[weonlywon6-2]

Where's your ambition, man? Is there no way we could relegate them on 2 Jan? :greengrin:flag:

Just how good would that be!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

The timing of this puzzles me as well.

From memory, UBIGs vote for the CVA is needed to guarantee it. If they don't vote, that is the same as a No vote.

Will they have anyone in place for the 22nd? If so, is that enough time for them to come to a decision on the CVA?


"Foundation of Hearts would also assume responsibility of the £535,000 of football debt that Hearts owes"

What relevence is that to UKIO?? :confused:
It makes no difference to them whether there's a football debt, or who does/doesn't pay it.
Can't see why it would even be mentioned in a CVA??

It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.

[StevieC]

It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.

Ah, right, got you.

Even though their vote is completely irrelevent. :wink:


Ian Murray, chairman of the Foundation, said: "We welcome the news that BDO is progressing the CVA for November 22 and hope that there will be a positive outcome.
“There is much work to be done, and again I cannot stress enough the importance of supporters who have not yet signed up to FoH, and who are able to do so.”

Seems to have gone from "we are confident" to "hope" pretty quickly. :rolleyes:

And secondly, why the importance for supporters to sign up?? :confused:
The CVA is in .. it will be dealt with before any new DD's can be collected .. so they can't be that important ..
.. unless ..
.. the CVA is based on money they don't actually have and if it is accepted there'll be a financial shortfall?

[Gmack7]

so they are offering 2.5million for land valued at approx 5/6 million:dunno::dunno::dunno:now im not a financial wizard but that offer looks tom kite

[Keith_M]

Evening News LINK (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/foundation-to-offer-2-5m-to-buy-hearts-1-3177056) to current CVA offer story



If BDO's fees are to be paid from the offer, it doesn't leave much for UKIO.


so they are offering 2.5million for land valued at approx 5/6 million:dunno::dunno::dunno:now im not a financial wizard but that offer looks tom kite


For land that was almost sold for 18M seven years ago.

[Leithenhibby]

The timing of this puzzles me as well.

From memory, UBIGs vote for the CVA is needed to guarantee it. If they don't vote, that is the same as a No vote.

Will they have anyone in place for the 22nd? If so, is that enough time for them to come to a decision on the CVA?



It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.


Are the courts not sitting tomorrow (7th) to settle this, sure I saw that somewhere! :confused:

[Gus Fring]

The timing of this puzzles me as well.

From memory, UBIGs vote for the CVA is needed to guarantee it. If they don't vote, that is the same as a No vote.

Will they have anyone in place for the 22nd? If so, is that enough time for them to come to a decision on the CVA?

BDO are anticipating the UBIG admin being appointed tomorrow. Unless the judge is busy again.

FWIW this offer is higher than the original one I'm told but I'm still convinced its seriously flawed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah, right, got you.

Even though their vote is completely irrelevent. :wink:

It probably will turn out to be irrelevant, but at this stage they need to woo as many creditors as they can.


"Foundation of Hearts would also assume responsibility of the £535,000 of football debt that Hearts owes"

What relevence is that to UKIO?? :confused:
It makes no difference to them whether there's a football debt, or who does/doesn't pay it.
Can't see why it would even be mentioned in a CVA??

It's to persuade the football creditors to vote for it.

[Islington Hibs]

I have no inside knowledge at all but this seems like an agreed stitch up whether we like it or not. I don't believe DBO would put forward a proposal that had not been pre-agreed and effectively they are only dealing with 2 parties in Lith so shouldn't be too difficult, especially as it seems politicians seem to have got involved behind closed doors. Hope I am wrong as effectively this, if it goes through, is small punishment for massive cheating. At least they will be relegated and I suspect the Muppets at Foundation of Hearts will all fall out but, if this goes through, there is little justice.

[greenpaper55]

So the FOH are paying in instalments ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24842084

Utter robbery if they get away with this.

[Treadstone]

22nd November. Fifty years since JFKs assassination.

Could be another "where were you?" moment.

[bathhibby]

Am I missing something ? why would the major creditors accept £2.5 M when they own the ground and could flog it for twice or even three times that amount.

They need to maximise their return for the Lithuanian Taxpayers so tell BDO to Foxtrot Oscar

[EuanH78]

Yeah, like Ibrox and Murray park was worth £1.5m and East End Park was worth £150,000.

To be fair, that all came after a piss poor cva was rejected by Hmrc with a friendly and dodgy admin. Not sure this will pan out the same but confess I'm not an expert

[Islington Hibs]

Am I missing something ? why would the major creditors accept £2.5 M when they own the ground and could flog it for twice or even three times that amount.

They need to maximise their return for the Lithuanian Taxpayers so tell BDO to Foxtrot Oscar

Because they might not be bothered with the hassle. £7m (or whatever the land is worth) is a lot to you, or me, but chicken feed relative to the scale of Vlad's empires problems and this is politically toxic. After expenses, uncertainty over planning permission, delays, political intervention etc they might just go for it. Hope I am wrong - cheats should not be seen to win.

[Stevie Reid]

Does this mean that the frozen assets won't be an issue then? And could they be out of admin by January?

[bingo70]

Does this mean that the frozen assets won't be an issue then? And could they be out of admin by January?

As of Monday dunfermline were technically still in administration, when was there Cva agreed? Think it was July.

Does anyone know if that's the normal time it takes to come out of admin following a Cva being agreed?

[#FromTheCapital]

What happens if the CVA is rejected on the 22nd? Will FoH get another go or will Daffy Duck finally shoot his load?

[Col2]

CVA will be rejected. Joke bid. Liquidation looms.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Does this mean that the frozen assets won't be an issue then? And could they be out of admin by January?

No, the frozen assets are very much an issue. BDO are trying to keep things moving to keep the fans buying tickets, otherwise they will run out of cash very soon.

No chance IMO this CVA will be accepted on the 22nd, however I am a ****ing idiot.

[#FromTheCapital]

CVA will be rejected. Joke bid. Liquidation looms.

I have my doubts tbh, surely BDO and FoH have reason to believe this will be accepted and the ukio admins have already accepted it in principal.

[jdships]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24842084

This article lays out details of the CVA which sounds very straightforward
For £3,000,001 TFofH will take control of the club.
We are told that money is " in the bank " - YES ?

Question :- Once the purchase is completed who is putting up the capital to run the club on a day today basis and to pay wages to attract the " stars" they talk about to the PBS .
What happens when the old stand is condemned at the next building inspection ( this is a very strong rumour going the rounds from with ECC ) ?

:confused:

[fisherrowhibs]

It would be funny if we could all chip in and bought the pbs, sell it for 5 or 6m and gave tb the profit to spend our team?

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Well, a club valued at £3m doesn't strike me as being a 'big' club?

Hibs have a training centre that is worth that!

A long way back for them even if this does come off.

[Geo_1875]

I have my doubts tbh, surely BDO and FoH have reason to believe this will be accepted and the ukio admins have already accepted it in principal.

The admins agreed that BDO could submit a CVA. This only means that they will consider it. Could be they have forced BDO/FOH hand and will make a decision either way. They are only following procedure as far as I can see.

[jacomo]

The admins agreed that BDO could submit a CVA. This only means that they will consider it. Could be they have forced BDO/FOH hand and will make a decision either way. They are only following procedure as far as I can see.

TBH I think you are clutching at straws here. Of course the CVA could fail but BDO aren't in the business of setting themselves up for a fall.

The offer for the real estate seems low but they may have told the Lithuanians that there is little prospect of a successful sale of Tynecastle without co-operation of the fans, and that any developer seen to be kicking the club out of their home would face a severe backlash.

[#FromTheCapital]

The admins agreed that BDO could submit a CVA. This only means that they will consider it. Could be they have forced BDO/FOH hand and will make a decision either way. They are only following procedure as far as I can see.

Dont think they would've agreed to proceed with a CVA without knowing what the offer was for. The way I understand it is the ukio admins aren't the ones who will accept or reject a CVA, that's down to the creditors of ukio. However the admins will recommend that they accept, so in all likelihood they will. Although that could be a load of pish.

[SloopJB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24842084

This article lays out details of the CVA which sounds very straightforward
For £3,000,001 TFofH will take control of the club.
We are told that money is " in the bank " - YES ?

Question :- Once the purchase is completed who is putting up the capital to run the club on a day today basis and to pay wages to attract the " stars" they talk about to the PBS .
What happens when the old stand is condemned at the next building inspection ( this is a very strong rumour going the rounds from with ECC ) ?

:confused:
We are told the money is there by way of a loan
The direct debits will assist with the running of the club as will day to day football income.
As for "stars", is this added just as a derogatory comment? They will either live within their means or fail.
The safety certificate is done on an annual basis. what has changed from last year?

[CropleyWasGod]

Dont think they would've agreed to proceed with a CVA without knowing what the offer was for. The way I understand it is the ukio admins aren't the ones who will accept or reject a CVA, that's down to the creditors of ukio. However the admins will recommend that they accept, so in all likelihood they will. Although that could be a load of pish.

A CVA can't be approved without the support of UBIG, no matter what UKIO say.

[Dashing Bob S]

Well roll on the 22nd November, and let's settle this now tedious argument between the 'their *ucked' brigade and 'they're going to get away it' mob. (The new Happy Clappers and Doom & Gloom squads.)

[Sergey]

A CVA can't be approved without the support of UBIG, no matter what UKIO say.

I've just popped over to Kickback and they STILL DON'T GET THE GIG.

No UBIG shares = No CVA approval.

The Yams are truly brainless cretins and some are still asking who owns what - Just chuck your money at FoH and everything will be fine :fibber:

GIRFUY

[#FromTheCapital]

A CVA can't be approved without the support of UBIG, no matter what UKIO say.

Yes the UBIG situation is another matter. I was referring only to Ukio's acceptance of the CVA.

[Gus Fring]

A CVA can't be approved without the support of UBIG, no matter what UKIO say.

BINGO! This is the point every halfwit that supports Hearts is missing! Nobody knows what they are going to do because the admin hasn't even been appointed yet. BDO have had talks with UKIO, they've had 0 involvement with UBIG. For all we know the UBIG Admin wants to screw hearts for every penny they can.

Also,

THE SHARES ARE STILL FROZEN!

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Well roll on the 22nd November, and let's settle this now tedious argument between the 'their *ucked' brigade and 'they're going to get away it' mob. (The new Happy Clappers and Doom & Gloom squads.)

I like the new happy clappers...but I also like the doom & gloom squad. I wonder which one I like the most??

There's only one way to find out...

:yw:

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes the UBIG situation is another matter. I was referring only to Ukio's acceptance of the CVA.

Think you've missed my point. To get the CVA approved, there has to be 75% acceptance by the unsecured creditors. Ukio can't achieve that on their own. They have to have Ubig approval as well.

That is a separate matter from the shares problem.

[#FromTheCapital]

Think you've missed my point. To get the CVA approved, there has to be 75% acceptance by the unsecured creditors. Ukio can't achieve that on their own. They have to have Ubig approval as well.

That is a separate matter from the shares problem.

No I got you first time round, not as thick as I seem :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

No I got you first time round, not as thick as I seem :greengrin

Ok cool......

Want to tell the Yams? :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Ok cool......

Want to tell the Yams? :greengrin

No point, they are even thicker than they seem!!!!!

[#FromTheCapital]

Ok cool......

Want to tell the Yams? :greengrin

I'd prefer for them to continue with their ignorant approach so if it does go tits up for them it will be much funnier to see. :ostrich:

[Mon Dieu4]

This amused me, Bob Jamieson is a Yam baiting machine!!

https://m.facebook.com/messages/read/?tid=id.290819370932624&_rdr#!/groups/2209735398?view=permalink&id=10151965785090399&__user=1067766116

[Dashing Bob S]

I used to despair that Scottish journalist seemed unable to read and grasp the simple points made by CWG, Sergey and Bajillions about the CVA, UBIG and the frozen shares pending investigation. Now I realise they are just spinning a cynical narrative to rope the Kickback dopes in, so they can spin the story as the great tragedy when the almost inevitable happens.

But Hibs fans should leave being led up the garden path to the Jambos. This story is only going to get bleaker for them. I'd personally love a CVA to go through on the FOH bid - it would such fun watching the bitter Jambo civil war, as they tried to make a go of this unworkable mess of a business plan.

So that is by far my preferred best result, as liquidation still leaves them a united support, trying to work their way through the leagues with a 'well, we had good times, 5-1 etc' mentality.

But I suspect that I'm being greedy and it just ain't going to happen. I fear we shall have settle for liquidation following admin.

[Weststandwanab]

I used to despair that Scottish journalist seemed unable to read and grasp the simple points made by CWG, Sergey and Bajillions about the CVA, UBIG and the frozen shares pending investigation. Now I realise they are just spinning a cynical narrative to rope the Kickback dopes in, so they can spin the story as the great tragedy when the almost inevitable happens.

But Hibs fans should leave being led up the garden path to the Jambos. This story is only going to get bleaker for them. I'd personally love a CVA to go through on the FOH bid - it would such fun watching the bitter Jambo civil war, as they tried to make a go of this unworkable mess of a business plan.

So that is by far my preferred best result, as liquidation still leaves them a united support, trying to work their way through the leagues with a 'well, we had good times, 5-1 etc' mentality.

But I suspect that I'm being greedy and it just ain't going to happen. I fear we shall have settle for liquidation following admin. I agree and I think this "C.V.A. proposal" is the start of the end game

[Dashing Bob S]

I agree and I think this "C.V.A. proposal" is the start of the end game

A couple of weeks ago we heard that the CVA 'was agreed'.

Then, when somebody asked 'agreed by whom?' we learned that FOH had agreed to submit the CVA to BDO, who had 'agreed' to pass it on UKIOS, who had agreed to consider it. So far, so inevitable, and out of admin by Christmas and let the signing of the World Cup stars and building of new stands etc commence.

Then we found that UKIOS had 'agreed' nothing with UBIG, who didn't have their admin appointed to 'agree' anything, and who wants to get the absolute maximum for the Lith taxpayer, and who's in no position in any case to 'agree' to anything as their shares are frozen by the Lithuanian authorities as part of a large scale ongoing fraudulent criminal investigation.

So now the CVA 'agreement' has gone back to being a proposal, but one that is 'almost certain' to be 'agreed'.

I'm dreadfully sorry, Los Yambolinos, (and Hibby self-flagellators) but no, no, no.

[Jack]

I'm owe you at least a tenner, well £70 if you want to go back a bit that I never paid you cause I thought you were a dafty, but I've now got 2.50 if you want that?

Deary me I've just stuck a 50p in the bandit, oh there's another 50p gone. If you take what's left we'll call it quits eh?


If anyone here would say yes to that can they please, PLEASE PM me so we get the ball rolling! The first £60 should be in used tenners and marked "Jacks SFA for equity" and left behind the bar at the Harp. The other tenner comes with an absolute promise I'll pay it back, even if I have to sell my house ;-) ;-) nudge, nudge say no more, say no more.

[JeMeSouviens]

A couple of weeks ago we heard that the CVA 'was agreed'.

Then, when somebody asked 'agreed by whom?' we learned that FOH had agreed to submit the CVA to BDO, who had 'agreed' to pass it on UKIOS, who had agreed to consider it. So far, so inevitable, and out of admin by Christmas and let the signing of the World Cup stars and building of new stands etc commence.

Then we found that UKIOS had 'agreed' nothing with UBIG, who didn't have their admin appointed to 'agree' anything, and who wants to get the absolute maximum for the Lith taxpayer, and who's in no position in any case to 'agree' to anything as their shares are frozen by the Lithuanian authorities as part of a large scale ongoing fraudulent criminal investigation.

So now the CVA 'agreement' has gone back to being a proposal, but one that is 'almost certain' to be 'agreed'.

I'm dreadfully sorry, Los Yambolinos, (and Hibby self-flagellators) but no, no, no.

I would have agreed with your general thrust if it hadn't been for the quotes from the Valnetas guy about the Yams' tenacity etc. On the face if it, £2.5M seems laughably low for a £5M+ asset, but I'm not sure Valnetas would put out such publicly supportive comments and then vote no.

Otoh, the fat pompous ******** MP seems almost self effacing in his comments yesterday, which goes well against the grain.

:hmmm:

[Pinkie]

I have wondered about that Valnetas quote a few times, JMS. It was made very soon after the Hearts fans were making lots of noise about having Tynecastle listed in order to reduce its attractiveness to a developer (and therefore, its value). I can't remember the exact wording of the Valnetas quote but when I first read it, the optimist in me thought that he was hinting at "these Hearts fans are persistent, they have made it clear that they care not a rap about any creditors and, given that they are now actively and publicly trying to reduce the value of the assets in order to force a CVA, I'm flushing these FOH jokers out now".

I'm probably way off with this interpretation but it's nice to dream.

[greenginger]

I'm sure the Ukio admin. made reference to letting the Ukio Bankas Creditors Committee have a say as to accepting the offer/liquidating.A guy called Richard Daliboga got a few quotes in the Lith. press but does not seem to be in the loop now.

The Lith media seem very uninterested in the whole Yam situation. I wonder if Sergey could use his Lith contact to get a story out that the Lithuanian people are getting taken for mugs a second time.

First by Vlad, and the by the FoH group who want the club for a fraction of the Real Estate value and are dumping on millions of Lithuanian debt. A mention that there are millionaires in the buying consortium but they want to keep their money to buy star players etc. rather than settle any of the Club debts to charities and the rest.

There is a story there I'm sure the Lithuanian equivalent of the " Sun " could run if we could get the info to the right person.

[Islington Hibs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24842084

This article lays out details of the CVA which sounds very straightforward
For £3,000,001 TFofH will take control of the club.
We are told that money is " in the bank " - YES ?

Question :- Once the purchase is completed who is putting up the capital to run the club on a day today basis and to pay wages to attract the " stars" they talk about to the PBS .
What happens when the old stand is condemned at the next building inspection ( this is a very strong rumour going the rounds from with ECC ) ?

:confused:

It is a good question!

They will have to live within their means which will be pretty modest in the Championship. Further I doubt the Bank of Scotland (or whoever they bank with now) will give them much of a line of credit. So if FoH run the show they are likely to stumble on and be pretty poorly led with numerous different interests. This still should be pay back time (in theory anyway!)

If all this goes through- and we don't really know yet- the biggest risk to Hibs is that some serious businessman then buy's Hearts from FoH and puts proper capital in. Think this is pretty unlikely as no one serious has yet put their hand up and who in their right mind would put millions into a club with a rubbish stadium and infrastructure and into Scottish football dominated by Celtic and perhaps Servco in time?

[Ozyhibby]

Am I correct in thinking that by Nov 22nd this will be all over, one way or another?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Am I correct in thinking that by Nov 22nd this will be all over, one way or another?

No. Even in the best case scenario for Hearts - Ukio and UBIG both agree to the sale and there are no legal problems preventing a sale - there would still be a 28 day "cooling off" period after the CVA vote on the 22nd. Despite the headlines in one or two outlets today of "out of administration this month", the earliest Hearts could formally come out of administration is 20th December. Indeed, in the case of Dunfermline, it took about three months from their CVA being approved until they were ready to formally exit administration.

Equally, the worst case scenario - Ukio say to FOH that their offer isn't enough - doesn't necessarily mean they would be put into liquidation a day or two after the 22nd. This offer by FOH isn't like the offer Charles Green made for Rangers, where he gained control of the business and assets either way (CVA approved or liquidation). FOH are only offering the money on the basis that the CVA is approved. So if the CVA is rejected it would stay in the control of BDO and they would then have to figure out how to proceed.

[Ozyhibby]

No. Even in the best case scenario for Hearts - Ukio and UBIG both agree to the sale and there are no legal problems preventing a sale - there would still be a 28 day "cooling off" period after the CVA vote on the 22nd. Despite the headlines in one or two outlets today of "out of administration this month", the earliest Hearts could formally come out of administration is 20th December. Indeed, in the case of Dunfermline, it took about three months from their CVA being approved until they were ready to formally exit administration.

Equally, the worst case scenario - Ukio say to FOH that their offer isn't enough - doesn't necessarily mean they would be put into liquidation a day or two after the 22nd. This offer by FOH isn't like the offer Charles Green made for Rangers, where he gained control of the business and assets either way (CVA approved or liquidation). FOH are only offering the money on the basis that the CVA is approved. So if the CVA is rejected it would stay in the control of BDO and they would then have to figure out how to proceed.

There's nothing simple about this. I'm impatient for their demise.

[spike220]

I agree and I think this "C.V.A. proposal" is the start of the end game

At this moment I am waiting on the middle of the start game, let alone the end of the start game.

[GloryGlory]

A couple of weeks ago we heard that the CVA 'was agreed'.

Then, when somebody asked 'agreed by whom?' we learned that FOH had agreed to submit the CVA to BDO, who had 'agreed' to pass it on UKIOS, who had agreed to consider it. So far, so inevitable, and out of admin by Christmas and let the signing of the World Cup stars and building of new stands etc commence.

Then we found that UKIOS had 'agreed' nothing with UBIG, who didn't have their admin appointed to 'agree' anything, and who wants to get the absolute maximum for the Lith taxpayer, and who's in no position in any case to 'agree' to anything as their shares are frozen by the Lithuanian authorities as part of a large scale ongoing fraudulent criminal investigation.

So now the CVA 'agreement' has gone back to being a proposal, but one that is 'almost certain' to be 'agreed'.

I'm dreadfully sorry, Los Yambolinos, (and Hibby self-flagellators) but no, no, no.

Slightly OT, but co-incidence?

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/plans-for-major-new-development-at-ingliston-1-3177833

The Bidco "businesspersons" putting money on the table to let Fannieco buy Yams' shares wouldn't also have connections with this proposed development, would they? Wonder what security they want from Fannieco - presumably Tinie, if Fannieco get their mitts on that? ISTR a previous version of this scheme included a sports stadium.

[Weststandwanab]

A couple of weeks ago we heard that the CVA 'was agreed'.

Then, when somebody asked 'agreed by whom?' we learned that FOH had agreed to submit the CVA to BDO, who had 'agreed' to pass it on UKIOS, who had agreed to consider it. So far, so inevitable, and out of admin by Christmas and let the signing of the World Cup stars and building of new stands etc commence.

Then we found that UKIOS had 'agreed' nothing with UBIG, who didn't have their admin appointed to 'agree' anything, and who wants to get the absolute maximum for the Lith taxpayer, and who's in no position in any case to 'agree' to anything as their shares are frozen by the Lithuanian authorities as part of a large scale ongoing fraudulent criminal investigation.

So now the CVA 'agreement' has gone back to being a proposal, but one that is 'almost certain' to be 'agreed'.

I'm dreadfully sorry, Los Yambolinos, (and Hibby self-flagellators) but no, no, no. Spot on !


Am I correct in thinking that by Nov 22nd this will be all over, one way or another? No.


At this moment I am waiting on the middle of the start game, let alone the end of the start game. End game, in my opinion, that the Flounderingation of Hearts offer will be rejected

[greenginger]

I think I read that there was a minimum 17 days notice to be given for the offer to the date of the meeting. I'm sure some of the more obscure creditors in lithuania, Luxemburg and Hungry might not be in receipt of the notice unless they were sent last week. If they were I'm surprised the was no mention from any of the creditors ?

[jdships]

We are told the money is there by way of a loan
The direct debits will assist with the running of the club as will day to day football income.
As for "stars", is this added just as a derogatory comment? They will either live within their means or fail.
The safety certificate is done on an annual basis. what has changed from last year?

Re " Stars" . Am not being derogatory at all simply quoting the expression said to me by a couple of " senior " members of Fof H
" We will need to sign at least two or three top class players , one "star " even ( grin) , to take the club forward "
Direct debits are a unknown quantity in the medium to long term . My two close Jambo friends are " reviewing the DD situation in December 2014 "
You speak of a "loan" this is another debt that will have to serviced
Good housekeeping and project management will have to be the watchword from now on
The ECC surveyors dep't made comments last year on the problems that might be faced within the next two to three years regarding the condition of the main stand .

They are being given a great opportunity to salvage their club and I hope the FofH are up for it :rolleyes:

[brog]

Am I correct in thinking that by Nov 22nd this will be all over, one way or another?


No way Ozy! Sorry! :wink:


This amused me, Bob Jamieson is a Yam baiting machine!!

https://m.facebook.com/messages/read/?tid=id.290819370932624&_rdr#!/groups/2209735398?view=permalink&id=10151965785090399&__user=1067766116


Very interesting, Shoeless Bob shares this board's opinion re validity of F of H bid!,

[Liberal Hibby]

No. Even in the best case scenario for Hearts - Ukio and UBIG both agree to the sale and there are no legal problems preventing a sale - there would still be a 28 day "cooling off" period after the CVA vote on the 22nd. Despite the headlines in one or two outlets today of "out of administration this month", the earliest Hearts could formally come out of administration is 20th December. Indeed, in the case of Dunfermline, it took about three months from their CVA being approved until they were ready to formally exit administration.

Equally, the worst case scenario - Ukio say to FOH that their offer isn't enough - doesn't necessarily mean they would be put into liquidation a day or two after the 22nd. This offer by FOH isn't like the offer Charles Green made for Rangers, where he gained control of the business and assets either way (CVA approved or liquidation). FOH are only offering the money on the basis that the CVA is approved. So if the CVA is rejected it would stay in the control of BDO and they would then have to figure out how to proceed.

Surely there's also a possibility of the meeting being postponed as UBIG don't yet have a liquidator formally in place? They may want to ask for more time if they are only confirmed tomorrow.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely there's also a possibility of the meeting being postponed as UBIG don't yet have a liquidator formally in place? They may want to ask for more time if they are only confirmed tomorrow.

It's the administrator that sets the time limits on these things.

If Ubig don't have time to decide what their vote is, that's the same as a No vote and the CVA fails.

[Ozyhibby]

It's the administrator that sets the time limits on these things.

If Ubig don't have time to decide what their vote is, that's the same as a No vote and the CVA fails.

Seems strange BDO moving so quickly while Ubig still haven't confirmed an admin?

[CropleyWasGod]

Seems strange BDO moving so quickly while Ubig still haven't confirmed an admin?

I thought so too.

It could be a sign that money is getting tight. Conversely, it might also mean that BDO have the unofficial approval from both of the potential administrators of UBIG.

[Ozyhibby]

I thought so too.

It could be a sign that money is getting tight. Conversely, it might also mean that BDO have the unofficial approval from both of the potential administrators of UBIG.

Wouldn't they have to get to work preparing creditors reports etc before they start handing out CVA 's willy nilly.

[Sergey]

Wouldn't they have to get to work preparing creditors reports etc before they start handing out CVA 's willy nilly.

There was a report in yesterday's Lith press that the insolvency of Ukio has hit the buffers (stopped forthwith) as several creditors are putting in counter-claims - one that was mentioned was the Italian bank, UniCredit.

This is a legal quagmire and BDO are doing the best they can on behalf of FoH, but their hands are well and truly tied as events in Lithuania are out with their control.

[Aldo]

There was a report in yesterday's Lith press that the insolvency of Ukio has hit the buffers (stopped forthwith) as several creditors are putting in counter-claims - one that was mentioned was the Italian bank, UniCredit. This is a legal quagmire and BDO are doing the best they can on behalf of FoH, but their hands are well and truly tied as events in Lithuania are out with their control.

:-D

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't they have to get to work preparing creditors reports etc before they start handing out CVA 's willy nilly.

They have been doing work on the reports to creditors. The first one came out with the List of Creditors. The second one will be presented to the creditors with the CVA proposal, and voted on at the meeting.

[greenginger]

Was today, Thursday the 7th, not the day the UBIG administrator, AKA the Yam Savior , not due to be named ?

Don't tell me its been postponed again. :greengrin

[HibeesLA]

They have been doing work on the reports to creditors. The first one came out with the List of Creditors. The second one will be presented to the creditors with the CVA proposal, and voted on at the meeting.

Crops, is that 2nd report likely to become public knowledge as with the first? If so, will it come out before or after the creditors vote?

[Ozyhibby]

They have been doing work on the reports to creditors. The first one came out with the List of Creditors. The second one will be presented to the creditors with the CVA proposal, and voted on at the meeting.

I was meaning Ubig's admin. Surely they will need time to go through all the books before handing out CVA's before Nov 22nd?

[Kato]

There was a report in yesterday's Lith press that the insolvency of Ukio has hit the buffers (stopped forthwith) as several creditors are putting in counter-claims - one that was mentioned was the Italian bank, UniCredit.

This is a legal quagmire and BDO are doing the best they can on behalf of FoH, but their hands are well and truly tied as events in Lithuania are out with their control.

Spot on Sergey.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=lt&u=http://vz.lt/article/2013/11/7/kreditoriai-stabdo-ukio-banko-bankroto-procedura&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522ukio%2522%2B%2B%253Dunicredit%26 biw%3D1276%26bih%3D615%26tbs%3Dqdr:d

I've invested zero emotion into whether they go down the tubes or not (voted for them to survive with years of struggle, out of nostalgia for the early 80's) but have had a hoot along the way. The article points out that the foreign (to Lithuania) companies seeking recompense, which includes Renaissance Insignia Limited, Adreta Limited, Araminta Trading Corp, Avalon overseas services, Castellum Limited, UniCredit and the Klaipeda Regional Waste Management Centre, mean business and are well organised. They all have legal representation in the shape of Law Firm "Pavlov & Army". Sounds like they're well tooled up.

The story that keeps on giving, another year or two please. Love a courtroom drama.

[CropleyWasGod]

Crops, is that 2nd report likely to become public knowledge as with the first? If so, will it come out before or after the creditors vote?

Pretty sure it will be lodged at Companies House before the meeting. Robin will be along to confirm or otherwise :-)

[Jonnyboy]

I'm owe you at least a tenner, well £70 if you want to go back a bit that I never paid you cause I thought you were a dafty, but I've now got 2.50 if you want that?

Deary me I've just stuck a 50p in the bandit, oh there's another 50p gone. If you take what's left we'll call it quits eh?


If anyone here would say yes to that can they please, PLEASE PM me so we get the ball rolling! The first £60 should be in used tenners and marked "Jacks SFA for equity" and left behind the bar at the Harp. The other tenner comes with an absolute promise I'll pay it back, even if I have to sell my house ;-) ;-) nudge, nudge say no more, say no more.

Or a cheque payable to Campaign Against Saving Hearts (if you cant be bothered writing that out in full, initials will do) :wink:

[hibs0666]

Spot on Sergey.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=lt&u=http://vz.lt/article/2013/11/7/kreditoriai-stabdo-ukio-banko-bankroto-procedura&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522ukio%2522%2B%2B%253Dunicredit%26 biw%3D1276%26bih%3D615%26tbs%3Dqdr:d

I've invested zero emotion into whether they go down the tubes or not (voted for them to survive with years of struggle, out of nostalgia for the early 80's) but have had a hoot along the way. The article points out that the foreign (to Lithuania) companies seeking recompense, which includes Renaissance Insignia Limited, Adreta Limited, Araminta Trading Corp, Avalon overseas services, Castellum Limited, UniCredit and the Klaipeda Regional Waste Management Centre, mean business and are well organised. They all have legal representation in the shape of Law Firm "Pavlov & Army". Sounds like they're well tooled up.

The story that keeps on giving, another year or two please. Love a courtroom drama.

Does this affect both the good-bad bit of the bank and the bad-bad bit of the bank?

[Sergey]

Does this affect both the good-bad bit of the bank and the bad-bad bit of the bank?

One would have thought that the Scottish press would have the answer to that - or maybe BDO would have come out with a statement, but nae chance of that as it would upset the apple-cart that is the FoH PR spin that everything is running smoothly.

FFS - there's even a direct quote from Adomonis saying that no creditors meetings can take place.

Out of admin before the end of the year? I think not!

[Kato]

Does this affect both the good-bad bit of the bank and the bad-bad bit of the bank?

I think it's the bad, bad, leroy brown bit of the bank.

Nae Christmas for them again.

Begging bowls will be out before the first advent calendar window is open never mind transfer window.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Crops, is that 2nd report likely to become public knowledge as with the first? If so, will it come out before or after the creditors vote?

Don't be silly.
The report will become public knowledge when Mr Crops decides it will become public knowledge.

Neither an hour sooner nor later.

[Liberal Hibby]

The article points out that the foreign (to Lithuania) companies seeking recompense, which includes Renaissance Insignia Limited, Adreta Limited, Araminta Trading Corp, Avalon overseas services, Castellum Limited, UniCredit and the Klaipeda Regional Waste Management Centre, mean business and are well organised. .

Pedant hat on. Klaipedia is the main port in Lithuania - one of the Hansiatic ports that in Prussian times was known as Memel. Sounds like Vlad may have ripped off the people who cleaned his submarine :wink:

[Dashing Bob S]

The only people that have been able to help Hearts this season have been us - we've probably kept them going another month with the League Cup semi. Sadly, Celtic will probably deny us the opportunity to help them out gain, in the Scottish Cup.

[brog]

The only people that have been able to help Hearts this season have been us - we've probably kept them going another month with the League Cup semi. Sadly, Celtic will probably deny us the opportunity to help them out gain, in the Scottish Cup.


Congrats on 20,000 posts! Treat yourself to a tincture old chap!

[hibees 7062]

One would have thought that the Scottish press would have the answer to that - or maybe BDO would have come out with a statement, but nae chance of that as it would upset the apple-cart that is the FoH PR spin that everything is running smoothly.

FFS - there's even a direct quote from Adomonis saying that no creditors meetings can take place.

Out of admin before the end of the year? I think not!

Adam McCaw, solicitor and licensed insolvency practitioner:
"If 75% in value of those creditors IN ATTENDANCE and voting at the meeting approve the proposal then, subject to 50% in value of the creditors with no connection to the company also having voted in favour, it will become a CVA binding all of the creditors who were entitled to vote whether they did or not

[Leishy1995]

One would have thought that the Scottish press would have the answer to that - or maybe BDO would have come out with a statement, but nae chance of that as it would upset the apple-cart that is the FoH PR spin that everything is running smoothly.

FFS - there's even a direct quote from Adomonis saying that no creditors meetings can take place.

Out of admin before the end of the year? I think not!

For a financial rookie, does that mean they can't talk about a CVA with Hearts/BDO/Foh?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

No. Even in the best case scenario for Hearts - Ukio and UBIG both agree to the sale and there are no legal problems preventing a sale - there would still be a 28 day "cooling off" period after the CVA vote on the 22nd. Despite the headlines in one or two outlets today of "out of administration this month", the earliest Hearts could formally come out of administration is 20th December. Indeed, in the case of Dunfermline, it took about three months from their CVA being approved until they were ready to formally exit administration.

Equally, the worst case scenario - Ukio say to FOH that their offer isn't enough - doesn't necessarily mean they would be put into liquidation a day or two after the 22nd. This offer by FOH isn't like the offer Charles Green made for Rangers, where he gained control of the business and assets either way (CVA approved or liquidation). FOH are only offering the money on the basis that the CVA is approved. So if the CVA is rejected it would stay in the control of BDO and they would then have to figure out how to proceed.

And then there are those pesky frozen shares to consider too! :greengrin

[greenginger]

Adam McCaw, solicitor and licensed insolvency practitioner:
"If 75% in value of those creditors IN ATTENDANCE and voting at the meeting approve the proposal then, subject to 50% in value of the creditors with no connection to the company also having voted in favour, it will become a CVA binding all of the creditors who were entitled to vote whether they did or not

It certainly looks like UBIG's failure to vote would not count as a No vote. :confused:

However getting 50% of the creditors with no connection to the Company to vote in favour may screw them especially if Hectors £ 1.8 million goes against the motion. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Adam McCaw, solicitor and licensed insolvency practitioner:
"If 75% in value of those creditors IN ATTENDANCE and voting at the meeting approve the proposal then, subject to 50% in value of the creditors with no connection to the company also having voted in favour, it will become a CVA binding all of the creditors who were entitled to vote whether they did or not

I would imagine that they need Ubig to vote in favour otherwise they would not be sweating on the appointment of an admin for them.

[Jack]

What's a report to creditors?

Just so that we can all be clear :-)

[spike220]

What's a report to creditors?

Just so that we can all be clear :-) I am going to take a wild stab in the dark here and suggest it is some kind of report that is shared with people who are owed money!! I hope that clears it up :greengrin

[gorgie greens]

as in cases with all animals,surely the decent thing is to put it out of its misery and pain and kill it.

[Sanger]

Spot on !

No.

End game, in my opinion, that the Flounderingation of Hearts offer will be rejected
Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.

[Pete]

Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.

One minute you speak sense then the next you speak like redskin.

Me trust um private board.

[Joy Zipper]

Don't be silly.
The report will become public knowledge when Mr Crops decides it will become public knowledge.

Neither an hour sooner nor later.

Brilliant !

[StevieC]

The only people that have been able to help Hearts this season have been us - we've probably kept them going another month with the League Cup semi. Sadly, Celtic will probably deny us the opportunity to help them out gain, in the Scottish Cup.

It's Hibs .. so Ross County will deny us that opportunity. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't be silly.
The report will become public knowledge when Mr Crops decides it will become public knowledge.

Neither an hour sooner nor later.

Ha.....I wish :-)

I'm actually in Spain just now, so not on the ball. I will get an alert if there is anything new on Hearts CH record.....but that goes to my work email. ...and I ain't checking that while I'm on holiday :-)

[fat freddy]

Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.



Revisionist!...but its hard to disagree...despite what usually happens when companies go bust and the assets are stripped to pay the creditors, football clubs appear to be exempt from the usual rules....as much fun as this thread has been i have a nagging suspicion that cwg, sergey, bajillions, cg, gg and all the other experts who have brought us a wealth of knowledge regarding the administration process may have to face up to the fact that football clubs are immune to the usual legal procedures with regards to actually dying...hearts in particular remind me of a suicidal rasputin...no matter how much they try to kill themselves, they just wont die...i will add that i live in the hope that i am utterly wrong and my misgivings are based on the fear that they escape proper punishment for their mismanagement.

[Spike Mandela]

Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.

So, basically what all the 'non experts' said would happen from the get go?:rolleyes:

[Geo_1875]

Revisionist!...but its hard to disagree...despite what usually happens when companies go bust and the assets are stripped to pay the creditors, football clubs appear to be exempt from the usual rules....as much fun as this thread has been i have a nagging suspicion that cwg, sergey, bajillions, cg, gg and all the other experts who have brought us a wealth of knowledge regarding the administration process may have to face up to the fact that football clubs are immune to the usual legal procedures with regards to actually dying...hearts in particular remind me of a suicidal rasputin...no matter how much they try to kill themselves, they just wont die...i will add that i live in the hope that i am utterly wrong and my misgivings are based on the fear that they escape proper punishment for their mismanagement.

You are correct that football clubs, and hertz in particular, are treated differently from "normal" businesses.

If I'd run a company in the manner that hertz have been run, not only by Vlad but other directors and management, there would have been criminal charges.

[HibbyDave]

It's always darkest just before the dawn.

















Mon the Liths!
:flag::flag:

[jacomo]

Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.

You have cried wolf about an unavoidable, impending liquidation for them many times on this thread. Sorry, but will take your predictions with a hefty bucket of salt.

I neither have inside knowledge nor expertise on Hearts' situation. But, whatever happens, it's hard to see how they can get back to where they were and stay at Tynecastle in the long term. Even if FoH get everything they want, they end up with a club odds-on for relegation and a crumbling stadium that's not fit for purpose.

[leggeto]

Revisionist!...[/B]but its hard to disagree...despite what usually happens when companies go bust and the assets are stripped to pay the creditors, football clubs appear to be exempt from the usual rules....as much fun as this thread has been i have a nagging suspicion that cwg, sergey, bajillions, cg, gg and all the other experts who have brought us a wealth of knowledge regarding the administration process may have to face up to the fact that football clubs are immune to the usual legal procedures with regards to actually dying...hearts in particular remind me of a suicidal rasputin...no matter how much they try to kill themselves, they just wont die...i will add that i live in the hope that i am utterly wrong and my misgivings are based on the fear that they escape proper punishment for their mismanagement.

yip, I said at the start they could fall into a berrel of shiete and climb out smelling of roses

[WhileTheChief..]

Take a quick look at the league table if you think they are getting away with it!

If you remember back to before all this started most folk on here were predicting administration, nothing else.

Hearts were telling us it would never happen as they owed the cash to themselves.

It's only because admin came about so easily that everyone started wanting liquidation.

Hearts are trying to paint this as a victory of sorts if they exit admin but to me the damage is done.

Whatever happens next its in the history books that they were in admin and a season or 2 of life in the lower leagues is probably better than any of us could have dreamed of when this all kicked off years ago.

Personally I'm enjoying watching them get stronger after every defeat and it fills me with pride the way they are preparing for the Championship.

[Biggie]

Whilethechief - I dont buy that....I want accountability.....£30+M !!!...people losing their jobs, 2 cups won whilst not paying players, knowing they had no intention of paying ANYTHING back.....sorry mate I want more than a poxy 15 point deduction......life in the lower leagues...big deal.
I want BLOOD.
I get grief daily from the yam supporting family I have.....I've said my day will come and I want it.

[hibs0666]

So, basically what all the 'non experts' said would happen from the get go?:rolleyes:

A lot of people said that they would get away with it and come out of this smelling of roses. Instead they are coming out of this - at best - smelling of it smelling of sphincter ooze with a club destined for a spell in a lower league, carrying a multi-million debt with a ground that is fit for purpose only in Divison 3.

[leggeto]

Whilethechief - I dont buy that....I want accountability.....£30+M !!!...people losing their jobs, 2 cups won whilst not paying players, knowing they had no intention of paying ANYTHING back.....sorry mate I want more than a poxy 15 point deduction......life in the lower leagues...big deal.
I want BLOOD.
I get grief daily from the yam supporting family I have.....I've said my day will come and I want it.

go on biggie take no prisoners

[Sanger]

You have cried wolf about an unavoidable, impending liquidation for them many times on this thread. Sorry, but will take your predictions with a hefty bucket of salt.

I neither have inside knowledge nor expertise on Hearts' situation. But, whatever happens, it's hard to see how they can get back to where they were and stay at Tynecastle in the long term. Even if FoH get everything they want, they end up with a club odds-on for relegation and a crumbling stadium that's not fit for purpose.

Clearly early on the admins were going for the money as much as they could recover. But reading the latest report from Lithuania they taking the line I outlined above.

I was first with the Ukio bankas analysis from Bloomberg and exposed the full extent of what had been washed through Hearts. Financial situations change and the attitude of the creditors to what can be reasonably recovered and the effort to do so as well. We have to face up the actual situation now. I agree with your last comments.

[Biggie]

go on biggie take no prisoners

I'm not going to mate, I'm sick of these *****

[JollyGreenGiant]

@jamiekborthwick: UBIG decision now delayed until Monday.

How many weeks has it been delayed now? :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Whilethechief - I dont buy that....I want accountability.....£30+M !!!...people losing their jobs, 2 cups won whilst not paying players, knowing they had no intention of paying ANYTHING back.....sorry mate I want more than a poxy 15 point deduction......life in the lower leagues...big deal.
I want BLOOD.
I get grief daily from the yam supporting family I have.....I've said my day will come and I want it.

Actually, when you put it like that...

:)

[Baker9]

Take a quick look at the league table if you think they are getting away with it!

If you remember back to before all this started most folk on here were predicting administration, nothing else.

Hearts were telling us it would never happen as they owed the cash to themselves.

It's only because admin came about so easily that everyone started wanting liquidation.

Hearts are trying to paint this as a victory of sorts if they exit admin but to me the damage is done.

Whatever happens next its in the history books that they were in admin and a season or 2 of life in the lower leagues is probably better than any of us could have dreamed of when this all kicked off years ago.

Personally I'm enjoying watching them get stronger after every defeat and it fills me with pride the way they are preparing for the Championship.

Spot on WTC. :greengrin

[Andy74]

Whatever happened to their charge for not paying players on time?

[hibees 7062]

I'm not going to mate, I'm sick of these *****

:top marks

[Juice-Terry]

I think the suggestion has been made already, but it would be great if one of our financial wizzards would write a piece on the whole sordid affair - highlighting of course the financial and moral costs to all those who have been shafted by Hearts - and send it off to various news agencies, papers, tv companies, radio stations etc. in Lithuania. It would also be very good if the piece could include some figures relating to the real value of Tynecastle - as opposed to the paltry sum FoH are offering. Just a thought...can't hurt, can it?

:flag:

[jacomo]

I think the suggestion has been made already, but it would be great if one of our financial wizzards would write a piece on the whole sordid affair - highlighting of course the financial and moral costs to all those who have been shafted by Hearts - and send it off to various news agencies, papers, tv companies, radio stations etc. in Lithuania. It would also be very good if the piece could include some figures relating to the real value of Tynecastle - as opposed to the paltry sum FoH are offering. Just a thought...can't hurt, can it?

:flag:

I am no financial wizard, but the story is something like this:

In 2003, Edinburgh's two big football clubs were in financial difficulties and actively considering a ground share in a new stadium in Straiton. The ground share never happened. But Hibs took responsibility for their situation and the football team suffered as a consequence. Hearts took no responsibility, sold out to a foreign businessman of dubious means, and didn't worry about who suffered the consequences.

[robinp]

Pretty sure it will be lodged at Companies House before the meeting. Robin will be along to confirm or otherwise :-)

Sadly it will not be lodged on Companies House, there is no requirement to lodge the proposal with CH only a form afterwards with the outcome, if it's approved.

These reports always find their way into the public domain, even if they are not published on the IP's website. I would expect it to appear online somewhere very soon.

[GreenLake]

How did the Lithuanians deal with Vlad's other club in their own country, FBK Kaunus? Did they get exceptional debt forgiveness for being a football club?

[Sanger]

How did the Lithuanians deal with Vlad's other club in their own country, FBK Kaunus? Did they get exceptional debt forgiveness for being a football club?

There was no value to extract from them. Building houses when the country was going through a financial crisis on a remtre sports field made the value of the stadium very low!

[clerriehibs]

There was no value to extract from them. Building houses when the country was going through a financial crisis on a remtre sports field made the value of the stadium very low!

But you've been telling us they're doomed, rooked, goosed, a dead parrot etc etc, with no way out, for months, and now you're telling us that's all been so much hot air?

Brilliant.

[Gatecrasher]

Don't hate your enemies it affects your judgement :wink:
If the worst that happens to them is relegation and that's looking likely then no doubt we'll still get a good laugh.

[Weststandwanab]

Whatever happened to their charge for not paying players on time?They never paid that charge.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sadly it will not be lodged on Companies House, there is no requirement to lodge the proposal with CH only a form afterwards with the outcome, if it's approved.

These reports always find their way into the public domain, even if they are not published on the IP's website. I would expect it to appear online somewhere very soon.

Cheers. Knew you'd know :-)


Clearly Ukiio's going over Romanov and co. Hearts are seen as innocent party just as Ukio is. They are not going to punished for Romanov's fraud. The CVA will be accepted as better than nothing. If you are owed £300m in total in total and £70m from one creditor it is is easier to get £2.5m upfront than hang on for years to get £8m or so. hearts will off course go down and will struggle to be financed and probably spend a few years in the championship given their finances and Rangers being in the same league as them next season. Time we all faced up to what is actually go to happen to them and move on.

It's not in UKIOs power to approve the CVA on their own though. They need UBIG to vote for it as well.

[Sanger]

Cheers. Knew you'd know :-)



It's not in UKIOs power to approve the CVA on their own though. They need UBIG to vote for it as well.
One and the same company effectively. A wash through for Romanov's scans both owned in reality the Lith state. They are both voting yes.

[greenginger]

Adam McCaw, solicitor and licensed insolvency practitioner:
"If 75% in value of those creditors IN ATTENDANCE and voting at the meeting approve the proposal then, subject to 50% in value of the creditors with no connection to the company also having voted in favour, it will become a CVA binding all of the creditors who were entitled to vote whether they did or not

That quote certainly suggests if UBIG don't vote it is not counted as a vote against merely discounted and the Ukio Bankas vote in favour would be enough.

However the 50% of non-connected creditors vote could screw them if HMRC vote against.

Of course this quote may not relate to the Hearts administration and CVA :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

One and the same company effectively. A wash through for Romanov's scans both owned in reality the Lith state. They are both voting yes.

Given that UBIG still have no administrator, I don't know how you can be sure that they will even vote.


That quote certainly suggests if UBIG don't vote it is not counted as a vote against merely discounted and the Ukio Bankas vote in favour would be enough.

However the 50% of non-connected creditors vote could screw them if HMRC vote against.

Of course this quote may not relate to the Hearts administration and CVA :confused:

Wasn't aware of the attendance rule. Robin will confirm im sure.

If it is correct. ...there are £22m unsecured. If UBIG don't attend, that's a maximum of £14m in attendance. 75% is £10.5

UKIO s unsecured portion is slightly less than that. IF everyone attended, or sent a proxy, and voted against, it would probably just fail.

Disclaimer. ...I'm doing this on holiday on the hoof. Please feel free to rip.my sums apart.

[greenginger]

Given that UBIG still have no administrator, I don't know how you can be sure that they will even vote.


Is it the case that if UBIG does not vote their £ 8.15 million debt is ignored and Ukio Bankas debt is almost 75% of the remaining debt and there are few other certs. to vote in favour.

Its very close but we know others will vote in favour, the football creditors for one, our Council, Heriot Watt would be more than enough.

Its the 50% of non-connected parties, if applicable could screw them if HMRC vote against.

I'll do the sums later.

[Treadstone]

Sadly it will not be lodged on Companies House, there is no requirement to lodge the proposal with CH only a form afterwards with the outcome, if it's approved.

These reports always find their way into the public domain, even if they are not published on the IP's website. I would expect it to appear online somewhere very soon.

STVs Jamie Borthwick has had it a couple of days according to his twitter. Said he will put up some photos of it. None as yet.

[Onceinawhile]

Is it the case that if UBIG does not vote their £ 8.15 million debt is ignored and Ukio Bankas debt is almost 75% of the remaining debt and there are few other certs. to vote in favour.

Its very close but we know others will vote in favour, the football creditors for one, our Council, Heriot Watt would be more than enough.

Its the 50% of non-connected parties, if applicable could screw them if HMRC vote against.

I'll do the sums later.

Hmrc will vote against. It's their policy.

[Carheenlea]

Anyone else lost interest in this saga? First time I`ve looked at this thread for a long time, and I am pretty much at the stage now of not really caring less what happens to them.

[Gustavo Fring]

theyre gonnae wriggle out of it , get the cva . go and sign some players in january - hopefully they will be too far adrift by then that even lionel messi winnae be able to to keep them up

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure how but it now seems to be that it no longer matters if Ubig don't have an admin and a CVA will pass so long as they don't vote against.
What changed?

[brog]

Adam McCaw, solicitor and licensed insolvency practitioner:
"If 75% in value of those creditors IN ATTENDANCE and voting at the meeting approve the proposal then, subject to 50% in value of the creditors with no connection to the company also having voted in favour, it will become a CVA binding all of the creditors who were entitled to vote whether they did or not

I know very little about insolvency but this quote makes no sense whatsoever. Reading it literally if only 2 creditors owed a total of £5 turned up at the meeting & one of them was owed £4 then that creditor could approve the proposal. I think it should read if 75% in value of creditors ARE in attendance etc etc. One small word missing which makes a significant difference IMO.

[Sergey]

Not sure how but it now seems to be that it no longer matters if Ubig don't have an admin and a CVA will pass so long as they don't vote against.
What changed?

Nothing - BDO have stated all along that they need to get the UBIG shares for any deal to be concluded. FACT.

Some folks have too much faith in the MSM, believing the numpties on Kickback and the dolts that scribble the FoH spin in the EEN. I posted only yesterday that the Ukio insolvency is on hold - FFS, there isn't even an insolvency practitioner agreed for UBIG.

Given how slowly things have gone up until now, I see little to indicate that things are going to gather apace in the Yams favour.

DeSantos seems to think otherwise, but better no go there, eh!

[greenginger]

Hmrc will vote against. It's their policy.

If they do , they are toast.

Yam total debt ..................................£ 29,068,000

debt to connected companies
Milson Capital £ 1,224,000
Suparturas £ 26,500
UBIG £ 8,151,000
Ukio Bankas £ 15,488,000
UAB Businessline £ 204,000
Ensco 165 £ 509,464

Total £ 25,602,494

Debt to unconnected parties £ 3,465,506

HMRC debt is £ 1,881,066 i.e. 54% 0f total unconnected debt.

[SkintHibby]

Anyone else lost interest in this saga? First time I`ve looked at this thread for a long time, and I am pretty much at the stage now of not really caring less what happens to them.

Yes, me! Totally bored with it all.

I've resigned myself to the fact that the worst that will happen to them is a season or two in the league below the SPFL.

[hibbymick]

Nothing - BDO have stated all along that they need to get the UBIG shares for any deal to be concluded. FACT.

Some folks have too much faith in the MSM, believing the numpties on Kickback and the dolts that scribble the FoH spin in the EEN. I posted only yesterday that the Ukio insolvency is on hold - FFS, there isn't even an insolvency practitioner agreed for UBIG.

Given how slowly things have gone up until now, I see little to indicate that things are going to gather apace in the Yams favour.

DeSantos seems to think otherwise, but better no go there, eh!

:top marks

[Potty78]

Anyone else lost interest in this saga? First time I`ve looked at this thread for a long time, and I am pretty much at the stage now of not really caring less what happens to them.

Relegation will do me mate:-)

[jdships]

Yes, me! Totally bored with it all.

I've resigned myself to the fact that the worst that will happen to them is a season or two in the league below the SPFL.

" Me also likewise "" :greengrin

:rolleyes:

[Liberal Hibby]

theyre gonnae wriggle out of it , get the cva . go and sign some players in january - hopefully they will be too far adrift by then that even lionel messi winnae be able to to keep them up

Even if they get a positive vote on 22 November there is no chance they will be out of admin by January. I suspect they may even struggle to get out of admin by the end of the season - given the frozen UBIG shares. Relegation is certain and I quite fancy the idea of them facing a further -15 point deduction next season.

[Ozyhibby]

I guess we will know within 14 days who will be voting etc and which way. Not long to go.

[Dashing Bob S]

I guess we will know within 14 days who will be voting etc and which way. Not long to go.

My prediction - based on past 'deadlines' and 'timetables' is that we will still know nothing at all in 14 days time, unless its what we already know now - they are ****ed.

[Smiggy 7-0]

Don't hate your enemies it affects your judgement :wink:
If the worst that happens to them is relegation and that's looking likely then no doubt we'll still get a good laugh. Anything that causes them long-term pain and suffering will do me...when it happens....not too bothered, I can wait and enjoy.

[Mango Man]

Anyone else lost interest in this saga? First time I`ve looked at this thread for a long time, and I am pretty much at the stage now of not really caring less what happens to them.

:agree:

[Ozyhibby]

My prediction - based on past 'deadlines' and 'timetables' is that we will still know nothing at all in 14 days time, unless its what we already know now - they are ****ed.

But any delay will betray the confidence shown by BDO and FoH that all is rosy.

[CropleyWasGod]

If they do , they are toast.

Yam total debt ..................................£ 29,068,000

debt to connected companies
Milson Capital £ 1,224,000
Suparturas £ 26,500
UBIG £ 8,151,000
Ukio Bankas £ 15,488,000
UAB Businessline £ 204,000
Ensco 165 £ 509,464

Total £ 25,602,494

Debt to unconnected parties £ 3,465,506

HMRC debt is £ 1,881,066 i.e. 54% 0f total unconnected debt.

Only unsecured creditors have a vote. So the total debt has to be discounted by 6.8m. So does UKIO s debt.

Re-do, please :-)

[greenginger]

Only unsecured creditors have a vote. So the total debt has to be discounted by 6.8m. So does UKIO s debt.

Re-do, please :-)

The total debt and the debt to connected parties both reduce by £ 6.8 million so the unconnected debt remains the same, I think.

HMRC would still have 54% of the un-connected debt.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/vas-factsheet.pdf


If it gets down to a vote and the HMRC decision is head-shot here are the factors they consider.

Looks like the Yams should get the thumbs-down on several counts.

Even the new owners agreeing to pay football debts seems to be a reason for a HMRC vote against a CVA acceptance.

[Dashing Bob S]

But any delay will betray the confidence shown by BDO and FoH that all is rosy.

In that case I'm sure the Lithuanian authorities will hurry up in their financial and criminal investigations and get those shares unfrozen as quickly as possible. Investigating major, widespread fraud should pale into insignificance besides the peanuts FOH might be able to give them for a CVA, if they can realise the fantasy cash from the donators.

[robinp]

Only unsecured creditors have a vote. So the total debt has to be discounted by 6.8m. So does UKIO s debt.

Re-do, please :-)

Correct, secured creditors can only vote in the cva if they have a portion of their debt which is not secured.

[green glory]

Correct, secured creditors can only vote in the cva if they have a portion of their debt which is not secured.

So if the debt to Hector is unsecured?

+

HMRC policy is not to vote for a CVA?

=

Jambogeddon?

[greenginger]

Correct, secured creditors can only vote in the cva if they have a portion of their debt which is not secured.


Can you confirm the second vote stipulation, ie. that at least 50% of the non-connected creditor by value and voting must be in favour for the CVA to be agreed.

[robinp]

Can you confirm the second vote stipulation, ie. that at least 50% of the non-connected creditor by value and voting must be in favour for the CVA to be agreed.

Im 99.9% certain that is the case but I will check later on. I dont like to post things as fact before I double check the law!

I was planning to post the extracts from the legislation on the PM board which covers the meeting/voting/process. Likely to be later tonight though.

[greenginger]

Im 99.9% certain that is the case but I will check later on. I dont like to post things as fact before I double check the law!

I was planning to post the extracts from the legislation on the PM board which covers the meeting/voting/process. Likely to be later tonight though.


Thanks, here's another one. Can you buy another companies debt ? It could affect the Yams CVA. :agree:

[robinp]

Thanks, here's another one. Can you buy another companies debt ? It could affect the Yams CVA. :agree:

Yes, 100% happens all the time. Companies specialise in such an activity. I look forward to further details on that one!

[Ozyhibby]

Yes, 100% happens all the time. Companies specialise in such an activity. I look forward to further details on that one!

So if Hearts are only offering Ubig £1 can I offer Ubig £100 for the debt?
I'll of course listen to their CVA proposal fairly.

[Sanger]

Thanks, here's another one. Can you buy another companies debt ? It could affect the Yams CVA. :agree:

Not according to HMRC - only 75% of the debt not secured by value is required for CVA to be approved.

https://www.gov.uk/company-voluntary-arrangements

[robinp]

Not according to HMRC - only 75% of the debt not secured by value is required for CVA to be approved.

https://www.gov.uk/company-voluntary-arrangements

As far as I can see The Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 1986 apply to Hearts (see the administrators proposals).

Part 7, Chapter 1 (Meetings), Paragraph 7.12 states:
7.12 Resolutions
(1) Subject to any contrary provision in the Act or the Rules, at any meeting of creditors, contributories or members of a company, a resolution is passed when a majority in value of those voting, in person or by proxy, have voted in favour of it. 50% rule
(2) In a voluntary arrangement, at a creditors' meeting for any resolution to pass, approving any proposal or modification, there must be at least three quarters in value of the creditors present or represented and voting, in person or by proxy, in favour of the resolution. 75% rule

I can't believe I just spent 45 mins of my saturday night clarifying this on my iPad! Good night!

There is also a CVA process where you can propose a CVA without being in Administration, a bit like a person would a Trust Deed in Scotland or an IVA in England and Wales. I believe the page you link to is the corporate equivalent, from memory it provides no protection from diligence by creditors.

[greenginger]

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/options/detailed-cva

Scroll down to " after proposals completed ", para 3 ....... a second vote of non-connected creditors must have approval of 50 %.

[robinp]

Edit: that legislation was changed in the Insolvency (Scotland) Amendment Rules 2010. The same rules apply, but it's 1.16A and 1.16B if your following. Don't have access to the 2013 insolvency law books at home! :bsod:

1.16A Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings

(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a resolution is passed at a creditors’ meeting when a majority (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy have voted in favour of it.

(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy have voted in favour of it.

(3) There is to be left out of account a creditor’s vote in respect of any claim or part of a claim-

(a)where written notice of the claim was not given, either at the meeting or before it, to the chairman or nominee;
(b)where the claim or part is secured;
(c)where the claim is in respect of a debt wholly or partly on, or secured by, a current bill of exchange or promissory note, unless the creditor is willing—
(i)to treat the liability to the creditor on the bill or note of every person who is liable on it antecedently to the company, and who has not been made bankrupt or had their estate sequestrated (or in the case of a company, which has not gone into liquidation), as a security in the creditor’s hands; and
(ii)to estimate the value of the security and (for the purpose of entitlement to vote, but not of any distribution under the arrangement) to deduct it from the creditor’s claim.
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the creditors—

(a)to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b)whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c)who are not, to the best of the chairman’s belief, persons connected with the company.
(5) It is for the chairman of the meeting to decide whether under this Rule—

(a)a vote is to be left out of account in accordance with paragraph (3), and
(b)a person is a connected person for the purpose of paragraph (4)(c),
and in relation to the second of these two cases the chairman is entitled to rely on the information provided by the company’s statement of affairs or otherwise in accordance with this Part of the Rules.

(6) If the chairman uses a proxy contrary to Rule 1.14AA the chairman’s vote with that proxy does not count towards any majority under this Rule.

(7) The chairman’s decision on any matter under the Rule is subject to appeal to the court by any creditor and paragraphs (5) to (7) of Rule 1.15B apply as regards such an appeal.

1.16B Requisite Majorities at Company Meetings

(1) Subject as follows and to any express provision made in the articles of association of the company, at a meeting of the members of the company any resolution is to be regarded as passed if voted for by more than one-half in value of the members present in person or by proxy and voting on the resolution.

(2) The value of members is determined by reference to the number of votes conferred on each member by the company’s articles.

(3) If the chairman uses a proxy contrary to Rule 1.14AA, the chairman’s vote with that proxy does not count towards any majority under this Rule.


GreenGinger - I have bolded the part where I believe the 50% of connected/non connected creditors voting comes in to play.

Connected Creditors are defined as:
For the purposes of any provision in this Group of Parts, a person is connected with a company if—
(a)he is a director or shadow director of the company or an associate of such a director or shadow director, or
(b)he is an associate of the company,and “associate” has the meaning given by section 435 in Part XVIII of this Act.

Associate defined as:
(1)For the purposes of this Act any question whether a person is an associate of another person is to be determined in accordance with the following provisions of this section (any provision that a person is an associate of another person being taken to mean that they are associates of each other).
[F1(2)A person is an associate of an individual if that person is—
(a)the individual’s husband or wife or civil partner,
(b)a relative of—
(i)the individual, or
(ii)the individual’s husband or wife or civil partner, or
(c)the husband or wife or civil partner of a relative of—
(i)the individual, or
(ii)the individual’s husband or wife or civil partner.]
(3)A person is an associate of any person with whom he is in partnership, and of the husband or wife [F2or civil partner] or a relative of any individual with whom he is in partnership; and a Scottish firm is an associate of any person who is a member of the firm.
(4)A person is an associate of any person whom he employs or by whom he is employed.
(5)A person in his capacity as trustee of a trust other than—
(a)a trust arising under any of the second Group of Parts or the M1Bankruptcy (Scotland) Act 1985, or
(b)a pension scheme or an employees’ share scheme F3. . . ,is an associate of another person if the beneficiaries of the trust include, or the terms of the trust confer a power that may be exercised for the benefit of, that other person or an associate of that other person.
(6)A company is an associate of another company—
(a)if the same person has control of both, or a person has control of one and persons who are his associates, or he and persons who are his associates, have control of the other, or
(b)if a group of two or more persons has control of each company, and the groups either consist of the same persons or could be regarded as consisting of the same persons by treating (in one or more cases) a member of either group as replaced by a person of whom he is an associate.
(7)A company is an associate of another person if that person has control of it or if that person and persons who are his associates together have control of it.
(8)For the purposes of this section a person is a relative of an individual if he is that individual’s brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece, lineal ancestor or lineal descendant, treating—
(a)any relationship of the half blood as a relationship of the whole blood and the stepchild or adopted child of any person as his child, and
(b)an illegitimate child as the legitimate child of his mother and reputed father;and references in this section to a husband or wife include a former husband or wife and a reputed husband or wife [F4and references to a civil partner include a former civil partner][F5and a reputed civil partner].
(9)For the purposes of this section any director or other officer of a company is to be treated as employed by that company.
(10)For the purposes of this section a person is to be taken as having control of a company if—
(a)the directors of the company or of another company which has control of it (or any of them) are accustomed to act in accordance with his directions or instructions, or
(b)he is entitled to exercise, or control the exercise of, one third or more of the voting power at any general meeting of the company of or another company which has control of it;and where two or more persons together satisfy either of the above conditions, they are to be taken as having control of the company.
(11)In this section “company” includes any body corporate (whether incorporated in Great Britain or elsewhere); and references to directors and other officers of a company and to voting power at any general meeting of a company have effect with any necessary modifications.

I would say that the Associated company definition could apply here.

[greenginger]

Ref my post No 31216,

UBIG and Ukio Bankas are connected as they are major share holders in HOMFC and Milson, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165 through Vlad.

Clause 22 of the latest Yam accounts notes their parent company is UBIG controlled by Vladimir Romanov and the three companies are all described in the same accounts as also being controlled by Vlad.

[robinp]

Ref my post No 31216,

UBIG and Ukio Bankas are connected as they are major share holders in HOMFC and Milson, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165 through Vlad.

Clause 22 of the latest Yam accounts notes their parent company is UBIG controlled by Vladimir Romanov and the three companies are all described in the same accounts as also being controlled by Vlad.

I concur. I dont think that point will even be up for discussion come the meeting.

[greenginger]

I'll pop over to the PM Board to explain what i meant about buying debt.

[bingo70]

I concur. I dont think that point will even be up for discussion come the meeting.

What's your hunch, are they getting liquidated or will they get Cva approved?

[robinp]

What's your hunch, are they getting liquidated or will they get Cva approved?

We dont know who is voting which way, whether all the major creditors will attend, vote, submit a proxy vote, abstain.

GreenGinger posted a very interesting point, if voting goes as is guesstimated, this could come down to a technicality; 50% of unconnected creditors voting in favour of the CVA proposal, of which hes said HMRC account for a majority.

[greenginger]

Another negative thought,

The connected creditor list para 7 seems to specify Company Creditors as being connected if the Company is controlled by connected persons.

Could there be a consideration that as Ukio Bankas is now controlled by the Lithuanian Admin. and therefor no longer connected to HOMFC.

[brog]

As far as I can see The Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 1986 apply to Hearts (see the administrators proposals).

Part 7, Chapter 1 (Meetings), Paragraph 7.12 states:
7.12 Resolutions
(1) Subject to any contrary provision in the Act or the Rules, at any meeting of creditors, contributories or members of a company, a resolution is passed when a majority in value of those voting, in person or by proxy, have voted in favour of it. 50% rule
(2) In a voluntary arrangement, at a creditors' meeting for any resolution to pass, approving any proposal or modification, there must be at least three quarters in value of the creditors present or represented and voting, in person or by proxy, in favour of the resolution. 75% rule

I can't believe I just spent 45 mins of my saturday night clarifying this on my iPad! Good night!

There is also a CVA process where you can propose a CVA without being in Administration, a bit like a person would a Trust Deed in Scotland or an IVA in England and Wales. I believe the page you link to is the corporate equivalent, from memory it provides no protection from diligence by creditors.

Thx Robin that clarifies the prior post I queried in 31214 & (I think! ) confirms my assumption.

[Bill Milne]

Did anyone else see the newspaper article yesterday, confirming that Hertz would not pay their office and other backroom staff their backdated wages? This despite them giving up their wages to keep the club afloat!! It really does beggar belief.

[greenginger]

If the " 50% " vote is to exclude " votes of connected parties decided by the meeting chairman to the best of his knowledge ".

Who will be the meeting chairman ?.... Not a well known independent M. P. I hope !

[robinp]

If the " 50% " vote is to exclude " votes of connected parties decided by the meeting chairman to the best of his knowledge ".

Who will be the meeting chairman ?.... Not a well known independent M. P. I hope !

No, it will be someone from the BDO.

[greenginger]

No, it will be someone from the BDO.

Some comfort there then.

I also see that HMRC seem to have a separate VAS Dept. dealing with creditor voluntary arrangements and based down south. Less likely to be intimidated by the the Yams war record and high profile :rolleyes: supporters.

[SQHib]

Did anyone else see the newspaper article yesterday, confirming that Hertz would not pay their office and other backroom staff their backdated wages? This despite them giving up their wages to keep the club afloat!! It really does beggar belief.

Where was this bill ? Do you have a link ?