Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[brog]

Because the most important (only secured) creditor has accepted the offer. All that remains now is for the UBIG admins to play ball and their shares to be unfrozen before they're home and dry.

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.

[Keith_M]

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.


Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now.

[brog]

At the time, I thought that HMRC played it correctly, and I probably still do.

Had they gone in with all guns blazing, demanding full payment, then the club would've been wound up immediately and they would've got zip. However, what HMRC did was allow them some leeway, and actually did get a little bit of blood out of the stone.

Crops, if you remember at the time I did not share your confidence that HMRC were acting correctly. In hindsight I still find it hard to think that HMRC really did enough. Yams were desperate to avoid admin & subsequent relegation last season & I believe if HMRC had pushed harder then Yams would have found some cash from somewhere to avoid admin. After all, over £3m disappeared from a non existent share issue & season tickets, it would have been nice if some of that money had found its way to the taxpayers rather than Vlad's pocket.


Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now.

Totally agree, but I would imagine there's a big difference between a verbal offer & a formal offer which is subject to stringent due diligence. BDO's fees also have to be paid & they must be well in advance of £0.5m by now, that's a large chunk of any offer from FoH. I continue to hope!

[Peevemor]

How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?


It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.).

[Glesgahibby]

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.
The only way ukio can accept or knock back a cva is when one is legally on the table.
no one from any of the involved has been quoted as saying this is a done deal.
all I can see is appeasement from BDO,FOH and a spokesman from UKIOs administrators to the hearts fannies and biddies.ukios admin have to go through there own creditors to accept a cva and they cant do that until there is a real offer on the table.
Let's see what happens today and what spin will apply!

[Moulin Yarns]

In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.).

Not since the new Planning (Scotland) Act 2006. It is now 3 years, but, having said that, unless there are fundamental changes in things like legislation or other over-riding reasons, you could probably extend the approval indefinately.

[Peevemor]

Not since the new Planning (Scotland) Act 2006. It is now 3 years, but, having said that, unless there are fundamental changes in things like legislation or other over-riding reasons, you could probably extend the approval indefinately.

What? You pop out the country for 5 minutes (well 9 years) and they start to change everything! :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset. Yes indeed, you are correct. I did know that but wondered f there was something I missed.


Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ? No.


Profit is still £10m. The Land is show in the accounts as stock or Fixed Assets, and can't be set off against any profit until it is sold. Spot on fellow BC


Company buys land worth £ 8 million, then writes down value to £ 2 million because of proposal to List a rotting, dangerous structure on the site. :greengrin

Profits reduced by £ 6 million for a few years anyway. Presumably you mean profit reduced to £6m not by £6m but anyway the answer is no ! profit still £8M therefore no notional saving in C.T..

[Weststandwanab]

Like I say, no-one outside of FOH, BDO and UKIO knows the actual amounts. It's all been speculation otherwise.

"Most of " £6.8m, though, is anything over £3.4m. :greengrin I think UKIO would be daft to accept anything less than that. I agree again.


Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now. They have asked the to proceed to formal CVA so that it can be formally rejected and then Liquidation can formally be applied for. - IMO


In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.). And all that saves them tax how exactly ?

[CB_NO3]

They have asked the to proceed to formal CVA so that it can be formally rejected and then Liquidation can formally be applied for. - IMO


I like your enthusiasm but I will be surprised if FOH dont know how much it will take the Ukio administration team to accept a deal. Why did the Ukio administration team not call in their 15m debt last week, last month or 2 months ago? It would not surprise me in the slightest if there is some back hand money going on here. "Accept the 4-5 million and we will throw in a wee personal sweetener" thats what the politicians (Murray, Salmond and Foulkes) are good at.

[PapillonVert]

Can someone clarify this for me?

The biddies are putting the cash up front to acquire the PBS and the poppy stealers, then the fannies are meant to pay them back using the Save Hearts In Trouble DD scheme. But what happens when the fannies cancel the DDs because they realise they're just paying some millionaire from their hardly earned giros?

The biddies will still have to be repaid, so will money be diverted from paying wages and bills for the repayments? Or will the club's operating budget be unaffected by the cancellations and the biddies are left owning the poppy stealers?

If this has already been answered, my apologies.

If I were a Biddy and putting up the cash dependent on repayment from the Fannies at some point in the future, I would want to ensure that I had a security for the money due. If FoH manage to squirm out of this somehow, presumably they will retain the stadium. This will be the only tangible asset that "newco" will have.

So, if the Biddies are taking this on on a business basis (i.e. they want their money back) rather than seeing it as a charitable donation, part of the deal will be to have a security over the asset in case the Fannies decide they won't pay/can't pay.

[Weststandwanab]

I like your enthusiasm but I will be surprised if FOH dont know how much it will take the Ukio administration team to accept a deal. Why did the Ukio administration team not call in their 15m debt last week, last month or 2 months ago? It would not surprise me in the slightest if there is some back hand money going on here. "Accept the 4-5 million and we will throw in a wee personal sweetener" thats what the politicians (Murray, Salmond and Foulkes) are good at. Thank you. I agree they will know and know it is too much so the way out to save face for BDO - remember they will be looking for future football club Admins - is to go through the formal process of offering a C.V.A. which will be rejected and they will move on to the process of the big L. Your piece about named individuals has a one in three chance of being correct.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Speaking with a business colleague this afternoon who is from Vilnius and allegedly Mad Vald is discussing and negotiating with the Lithuanian authorities how much $$ is required to allow him back in the country without being arrested or jailed.

Could there be a little twist coming up! :greengrin

[green glory]

@jamiekborthwick: Hearts stay in limbo as UBIG court hearing is postponed until next Tuesday http://t.co/Sp4iZwlhvH

[HibbySpurs]

@jamiekborthwick: Hearts stay in limbo as UBIG court hearing is postponed http://t.co/Sp4iZwlhvH


What a shame:greengrin


Looks like the waters continue to remain distinctly muddy in Lith Land....

[DarrenSQH]

But but but I thought the Cva would go through today? ......... Lol

[Glesgahibby]

Replay on Tuesday?
No match report ?
Spin imminent !!!!!!!

[Part/Time Supporter]

What a shame:greengrin


Looks like the waters continue to remain distinctly muddy in Lith Land....

This delay won't have much effect by itself. BDO can proceed with arranging the CVA meeting anyway, which needs a 28 days notice period. It just eats into that period a little bit. Further delays and/or the UBIG liquidator being difficult to deal with could cause a delay to the CVA timescale.


Thank you. I agree they will know and know it is too much so the way out to save face for BDO - remember they will be looking for future football club Admins - is to go through the formal process of offering a C.V.A. which will be rejected and they will move on to the process of the big L. Your piece about named individuals has a one in three chance of being correct.

I believe that's incorrect. The quotes from BDO and the Ukio administrator talked about now moving onto the "formal acceptance" of the FOH offer, implying that the offer has already been informally agreed. The formal acceptance would be by the actual CVA vote. BDO have also talked about the deal now being "4/10" complete, with the Ukio element representing the 4, again implying that this part of the deal has been agreed. If the Ukio administrator intended to move Hearts into liquidation he wouldn't need to waste his time (and some money) with arranging a CVA vote that he intended to vote against.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that despite what we've heard over the last few days, no CVA will agreed, on Tuesday, or any other day.

[Weststandwanab]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that despite what we've heard over the last few days, no CVA will agreed, on Tuesday, or any other day. Can I join you ?

[Dashing Bob S]

Can I join you ?

Yes, please do!

[Weststandwanab]

Yes, please do! Cheers. I am off for a well earned pint now !

[JeMeSouviens]

I think there will be a few dynamics going on behind the scenes. The Muppets' offer has already been upped a couple of times and was last rumoured to be around £3M while the spin has had Ukio willing to accept a discount on Tiny's value (usually quoted that they want £5M for a £6M or thereabouts asset). It's not inconceivable therefore that a deal could be struck. So I think there'll currently be:

Fannies to Biddies - look how well those Diddies are stumping up, gonnae just gie us a wee million or 2 more.

Fannies to BDO - give us a few weeks and we'll get the thumbscrews on Ms Budge to budge.

Valnetas to BDO - get on with it!

BDO to Valnetas - gonnae just knock half a mill off and we're nearly there.


My personal speculation is that Valnetas won't move very far. They have a restless lynch mob of Lithuanians to worry about after all. There might be a bit of movement on the Muppets' side. They were always likely to try and lowball as far as they could, so they may have been keeping a bit back and laying on the emotional blackmail to the Biddies to wring out that wee bit more cash.

The spin from the likes of Fat Boy McLauchlin at the Beeb has been pretty cautious so there must be a good bit of potential still for it all to collapse. Let's hope so! :wink:

[WhileTheChief..]

Brian Jackson said on the day that he was appointed administrator that he reckoned they had 4 in 10 chance of making it.

Not much changed since then it seems.

[Glesgahibby]

This delay won't have much effect by itself. BDO can proceed with arranging the CVA meeting anyway, which needs a 28 days notice period. It just eats into that period a little bit. Further delays and/or the UBIG liquidator being difficult to deal with would cause a delay to the CVA timescale.



I believe that's incorrect. The quotes from BDO and the Ukio administrator talked about now moving onto the "formal acceptance" of the FOH offer, implying that the offer has already been informally agreed. The formal acceptance would be by the actual CVA vote. BDO have also talked about the deal now being "4/10" complete, with the Ukio element representing the 4, again implying that this part of the deal has been agreed. If the Ukio administrator intended to move Hearts into liquidation he wouldn't need to waste his time (and some money) with arranging a CVA vote that he intended to vote against.
1.formal procedure,not "formal acceptance".
2.ukio admins have to formally ask for there "secured money,asset" or compromise.
3.ukio admins can only accept a compromise ie CVA when it is really there.
4.ukio admins don't arrange a CVA vote BDO do that.
5.ukio admins have to wait until CVA is produced before they can do anything.
6.BDO decide when to liquidate or sell CVA depending on present and future stability of the company.
7.UBIG????????????

[Dashing Bob S]

The FOH 'bid' is voodoo accountancy. I genuinely can't see a CVA taking place on it, though I really hope, indeed pray, that this actually does come to pass, as it would extend the hilarity further. Additionally, it would make it harder for the Yams trying to push this 'we're as much victims as anybody else' status, after they are given a free reign to wreck it themselves, which they would spectacularly under those conditions.

Bring on a CVA! (If you can...)

[hibees 7062]

Cheers. I am off for a well earned pint now !

Can we join you ? :greengrin

[greenginger]

Speaking with a business colleague this afternoon who is from Vilnius and allegedly Mad Vald is discussing and negotiating with the Lithuanian authorities how much $$ is required to allow him back in the country without being arrested or jailed.

Could there be a little twist coming up! :greengrin


Read all about it :greengrin


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3D2b3%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/begliu-nebenorintis-buti-vladimiras-romanovas-bandys-nusidereti-milijonu-lito-pinigini-uzstata-56-379283&usg=ALkJrhg7qZesJptF1sxzA9z633KtjkOozg

[Sanger]

The only way ukio can accept or knock back a cva is when one is legally on the table.
no one from any of the involved has been quoted as saying this is a done deal.
all I can see is appeasement from BDO,FOH and a spokesman from UKIOs administrators to the hearts fannies and biddies.ukios admin have to go through there own creditors to accept a cva and they cant do that until there is a real offer on the table.
Let's see what happens today and what spin will apply!


As I said previously they only way to reject or even know what will be really offered in the CVA is to give permission for the process to start. It will be well short of anything close to what Ukio/UBIG will find acceptable and then curtains.


Replay on Tuesday?
No match report ?
Spin imminent !!!!!!!

And then another 30 days before appointed admin made public.

[#FromTheCapital]

As I said previously they only way to reject or even know what will be really offered in the CVA is to give permission for the process to start. It will be well short of anything close to what Ukio/UBIG will find acceptable and then curtains.
.

#AllIsDesantos

No chance. They have accepted the amount offered as they have been thinking about it for a couple of months. As BDO say this part of the process is basically done and dusted, all that remains is for the UBIG situation to be sorted.

[Weststandwanab]

Can we join you ? :greengrin You certainly could have. It was all fun and games with the Jambos down at Staggs with their Yamanomics theory #allisnot2surenow

[Ozyhibby]

#AllIsDesantos

No chance. They have accepted the amount offered as they have been thinking about it for a couple of months. As BDO say this part of the process is basically done and dusted, all that remains is for the UBIG situation to be sorted.

Have to agree. No way Ukio would have told them to proceed without knowing they would accept.

[Pretty Boy]

#AllIsDesantos

No chance. They have accepted the amount offered as they have been thinking about it for a couple of months. As BDO say this part of the process is basically done and dusted, all that remains is for the UBIG situation to be sorted.

This. We have called them deluded for months but they have nailed it. The CVA is all but accepted and they have got out of this still having Tynecastle and in a financial shape that is a million miles better than they started.

I really wonder how bad it would have to he for a decent sized football club to actually go bust and then cease to exist in something resembling their previous form. Fiorentina is probably the closest example but they are pretty much back to where they where and have been for a few years. Rangers: same name, same stadium, same strip, keep the honours lose the debt. Leeds and Portsmouth are still in existence, Motherwell haven't done too badly since admin, Airdrie had a few years with a stupid name but are still basically the same club and now have the name back, Dunfermilne got out of admin and now Hearts have sneaked out with a 15 point deduction for their years of overspending. It wouldn't surprise me one bit now if they beat us on Tuesday and avoid relegation on the final day of the season.

[Gus Fring]

UKIO is aware of how much the bid is for and appears to be on board with getting Hearts in to the hands of FOH who have increased their offer by a fair bit since the original. BDO have also done a good job of convincing UKIO it's not worth much. UBIG/The Lith Authorities are the only stumbling block now but the good news is that BDO have been told that they've got a mountain to climb regarding getting the UBIG shares.

[Spike Mandela]

This. We have called them deluded for months but they have nailed it. The CVA is all but accepted and they have got out of this still having Tynecastle and in a financial shape that is a million miles better than they started.

I really wonder how bad it would have to he for a decent sized football club to actually go bust and then cease to exist in something resembling their previous form. Fiorentina is probably the closest example but they are pretty much back to where they where and have been for a few years. Rangers: same name, same stadium, same strip, keep the honours lose the debt. Leeds and Portsmouth are still in existence, Motherwell haven't done too badly since admin, Airdrie had a few years with a stupid name but are still basically the same club and now have the name back, Dunfermilne got out of admin and now Hearts have sneaked out with a 15 point deduction for their years of overspending. It wouldn't surprise me one bit now if they beat us on Tuesday and avoid relegation on the final day of the season.

Football administration is the business plan all football supporters of clubs with large debts should be praying for. Having an owner who pays bills, tax, wages and services debt stunts the progress of a football club.

[theonlywayisup]

This. We have called them deluded for months but they have nailed it. The CVA is all but accepted and they have got out of this still having Tynecastle and in a financial shape that is a million miles better than they started.

I really wonder how bad it would have to he for a decent sized football club to actually go bust and then cease to exist in something resembling their previous form. Fiorentina is probably the closest example but they are pretty much back to where they where and have been for a few years. Rangers: same name, same stadium, same strip, keep the honours lose the debt. Leeds and Portsmouth are still in existence, Motherwell haven't done too badly since admin, Airdrie had a few years with a stupid name but are still basically the same club and now have the name back, Dunfermilne got out of admin and now Hearts have sneaked out with a 15 point deduction for their years of overspending. It wouldn't surprise me one bit now if they beat us on Tuesday and avoid relegation on the final day of the season.

You had me worried there. My neighbour also said that the game is on Tuesday, but I am sure that it is on Wednesday. BBC website says Wednesday 30th.

[JeMeSouviens]

This. We have called them deluded for months but they have nailed it. The CVA is all but accepted and they have got out of this still having Tynecastle and in a financial shape that is a million miles better than they started.

I really wonder how bad it would have to he for a decent sized football club to actually go bust and then cease to exist in something resembling their previous form. Fiorentina is probably the closest example but they are pretty much back to where they where and have been for a few years. Rangers: same name, same stadium, same strip, keep the honours lose the debt. Leeds and Portsmouth are still in existence, Motherwell haven't done too badly since admin, Airdrie had a few years with a stupid name but are still basically the same club and now have the name back, Dunfermilne got out of admin and now Hearts have sneaked out with a 15 point deduction for their years of overspending. It wouldn't surprise me one bit now if they beat us on Tuesday and avoid relegation on the final day of the season.

Jeez, you're a barrel of laughs!

The Huns, Leeds and Portsmouth are hardly in top shape, or Airdrie, who were in the top division and cup semis and finals not so long ago, come to that. Dunfermline are going to be on shaky territory for the forseeable and hopefully Hearts will follow them.

Anyway, there is nothing to stop overspending in professional football, see under Abramovich, R. They only started cheating (imo) when the money was clearly drying up but they tried to carry on spending. A season with a pish team and almost certain relegation leading to a year or 2 of lower league pishness seems a fair punishment to me.

I'd have loved to see them lose Tiny and have to zombie around from Div3 somewhere else but I really don't get all the wrist slitting on here. Hopefully beating the ***** next week should cheer folk up. :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

This. We have called them deluded for months but they have nailed it. The CVA is all but accepted and they have got out of this still having Tynecastle and in a financial shape that is a million miles better than they started.

I really wonder how bad it would have to he for a decent sized football club to actually go bust and then cease to exist in something resembling their previous form. Fiorentina is probably the closest example but they are pretty much back to where they where and have been for a few years. Rangers: same name, same stadium, same strip, keep the honours lose the debt. Leeds and Portsmouth are still in existence, Motherwell haven't done too badly since admin, Airdrie had a few years with a stupid name but are still basically the same club and now have the name back, Dunfermilne got out of admin and now Hearts have sneaked out with a 15 point deduction for their years of overspending. It wouldn't surprise me one bit now if they beat us on Tuesday and avoid relegation on the final day of the season.

They will have to put out a team they can afford for the first time in 30 years. Be interesting to see how they cope with that.
The amount of free money they have had in that time between Vlad, smg and mercer is massive.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

UKIO is aware of how much the bid is for and appears to be on board with getting Hearts in to the hands of FOH who have increased their offer by a fair bit since the original. BDO have also done a good job of convincing UKIO it's not worth much. UBIG/The Lith Authorities are the only stumbling block now but the good news is that BDO have been told that they've got a mountain to climb regarding getting the UBIG shares.

I thought you had deserted us! :greengrin

[God Petrie]

UKIO is aware of how much the bid is for and appears to be on board with getting Hearts in to the hands of FOH who have increased their offer by a fair bit since the original. BDO have also done a good job of convincing UKIO it's not worth much. UBIG/The Lith Authorities are the only stumbling block now but the good news is that BDO have been told that they've got a mountain to climb regarding getting the UBIG shares.

Delete everyone's posts in this thread except Bajillions'.

There's a mountain to climb in unpicking that shambles and it won't be resolved anytime soon either way. They are no longer our rivals anyway. 5-1 led to one club being the dominant force in Edinburgh and it wasn't them.

[rcarter1]

Jeez, you're a barrel of laughs!

The Huns, Leeds and Portsmouth are hardly in top shape, or Airdrie, who were in the top division and cup semis and finals not so long ago, come to that. Dunfermline are going to be on shaky territory for the forseeable and hopefully Hearts will follow them.

Anyway, there is nothing to stop overspending in professional football, see under Abramovich, R. They only started cheating (imo) when the money was clearly drying up but they tried to carry on spending. A season with a pish team and almost certain relegation leading to a year or 2 of lower league pishness seems a fair punishment to me.

I'd have loved to see them lose Tiny and have to zombie around from Div3 somewhere else but I really don't get all the wrist slitting on here. Hopefully beating the ***** next week should cheer folk up. :wink:

All of this.

and particularly this

[Aldo]

UKIO is aware of how much the bid is for and appears to be on board with getting Hearts in to the hands of FOH who have increased their offer by a fair bit since the original. BDO have also done a good job of convincing UKIO it's not worth much. UBIG/The Lith Authorities are the only stumbling block now but the good news is that BDO have been told that they've got a mountain to climb regarding getting the UBIG shares.

I have followed this thread from word dot but can someone confirm this to me.

It's okay proceeding and agreeing a CVA but they do need all the shares (or majority thereof) for the FOH to take control of the club.

Basically what your saying bajillions is that they can agree what they want re a CVA but it's pointless cos they won't get the shares.

Confused I am a bit or got myself muddled somewhere.

Sorry

[1875er]

Just listened to sportsound and they said that the big thing is what liquidator the Lith courts appoint for UBIG. If its the same as UKIO then that's obviously advantageous but if its a "hostile luquidator" then the Poppy thiefs could have major problems..

'Mon the hostile!!!

[rcarter1]

Just listened to sportsound and they said that the big thing is what liquidator the Lith courts appoint for UBIG. If its the same as UKIO then that's obviously advantageous but if its a "hostile luquidator" then the Poppy thiefs could have major problems..

'Mon the hostile!!!

Im not sure how UBIG can do much apart from play ball. Any money - up to the value of the security- in the CVA goes to UKIO. If UBIG say no deal, liquidation happens, and then who gets what from the sale of Tynie - didnt think it was UBIG (?). If its 50% because of their shares, then it changes things, but BDO recently commented that their shares were in effect worthless (I took it to mean they get nothing post liquidation). To block the CVA would be extremely hostile, and would require a group of Hibs fans masquerading as Lithuanian administrators. :greengrin

[Sergey]

Just listened to sportsound and they said that the big thing is what liquidator the Lith courts appoint for UBIG. If its the same as UKIO then that's obviously advantageous but if its a "hostile luquidator" then the Poppy thiefs could have major problems..

'Mon the hostile!!!

I said a few days ago that for the bid to succeed then FoH are dependant on getting their hands on the 50% shareholding that UBIG hold.

Given that they are currently frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad, this is not in the hands of either Ukio or BDO. No UBIG shares equates to no takeover.

The Yams still don't get it...but that's of no great surprise.

[Aldo]

I said a few days ago that for the bid to succeed then FoH are dependant on getting their hands on the 50% shareholding that UBIG hold. Given that they are currently frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad, this is not in the hands of either Ukio or BDO. No UBIG shares equates to no takeover. The Yams still don't get it...but that's of no great surprise.

Cheers for that Sergey. I thought that was indeed the case.

They'll never get it. The club (and fans) with no shame.

[EK_Hibs]

Is it correct that UBIG's main creditor is Ukio Bankas?
If that's the case then forget about the UBIG Administrator being a problem.

IMO The only remaining hope is the UBIG shares remaining frozen.

[greenginger]

I said a few days ago that for the bid to succeed then FoH are dependant on getting their hands on the 50% shareholding that UBIG hold.

Given that they are currently frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad, this is not in the hands of either Ukio or BDO. No UBIG shares equates to no takeover.

The Yams still don't get it...but that's of no great surprise.

Are you certain the Heart's shareholding is still with UBIG ?

I can't get my head round why Vlad and all his gang would abandon UBIG if there were anything of value still in the Company. The asset freeze did'nt happen until April, so there was opportunity to transfer the shares to a safer location. The Lithuanians were bleeding the new share issue money and the season ticket cash so why take the chance of loosing control.

[Dashing Bob S]

UKIO is aware of how much the bid is for and appears to be on board with getting Hearts in to the hands of FOH who have increased their offer by a fair bit since the original. BDO have also done a good job of convincing UKIO it's not worth much. UBIG/The Lith Authorities are the only stumbling block now but the good news is that BDO have been told that they've got a mountain to climb regarding getting the UBIG shares.



Ah Bajillions...let me count the ways I loveth thee...


I said a few days ago that for the bid to succeed then FoH are dependant on getting their hands on the 50% shareholding that UBIG hold.

Given that they are currently frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad, this is not in the hands of either Ukio or BDO. No UBIG shares equates to no takeover.

The Yams still don't get it...but that's of no great surprise.

Ah Sergey...you too cometh to Bobby's rescue in his hour of need...

[Ozyhibby]

Is it correct that UBIG's main creditor is Ukio Bankas?
If that's the case then forget about the UBIG Administrator being a problem.

IMO The only remaining hope is the UBIG shares remaining frozen.

Assuming it's not the same admin then they still have to generate their own fees. They have something of value, the Hearts shares, so I doubt they are going to just give it away.

[greenginger]

Is it correct that UBIG's main creditor is Ukio Bankas?
If that's the case then forget about the UBIG Administrator being a problem.

IMO The only remaining hope is the UBIG shares remaining frozen.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-12/hearts-sale-plan-derailed-as-lithuania-freezes-romanov-s-assets.html

The assets including the Yam shares were frozen at the request of several companies that are suing Vlad and his sister. So its not just up to Ukio Bankas.

[Sergey]

Are you certain the Heart's shareholding is still with UBIG ?

I can't get my head round why Vlad and all his gang would abandon UBIG if there were anything of value still in the Company. The asset freeze did'nt happen until April, so there was opportunity to transfer the shares to a safer location. The Lithuanians were bleeding the new share issue money and the season ticket cash so why take the chance of loosing control.

It's a fair question, GG and I can't give a definitive 100% answer either way. I assume (never a good idea) that BDO and/or Ukio might be privy to the information about the shareholding, and their recent statements would suggest that they are still in the UBIG portfolio, but paperwork was never a priority where UBIG is concerned.

To counteract the above, there was a story in The Times about 3 months ago that suggested that the shares may well have been moved to a Swiss company. Not sure how factually accurate this was, but it does help in the conspiracy theories.

Time (not something Hearts have a lot of) will tell.

[PapillonVert]

I said a few days ago that for the bid to succeed then FoH are dependant on getting their hands on the 50% shareholding that UBIG hold.

Given that they are currently frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad, this is not in the hands of either Ukio or BDO. No UBIG shares equates to no takeover.

The Yams still don't get it...but that's of no great surprise.

May I ask a couple of question, Sergey?

1. How long are the shares likely to be frozen?

2. What happens when they become unfrozen?

[StevieC]

If Hearts were liquidated would the UBIG shares have any value?

I'm thinking here along the lines of the Rangers liquidation where the clubs name and history were apparently purchased as part of the £5.5m deal.

[greenginger]

It's a fair question, GG and I can't give a definitive 100% answer either way. I assume (never a good idea) that BDO and/or Ukio might be privy to the information about the shareholding, and their recent statements would suggest that they are still in the UBIG portfolio, but paperwork was never a priority where UBIG is concerned.

To counteract the above, there was a story in The Times about 3 months ago that suggested that the shares may well have been moved to a Swiss company. Not sure how factually accurate this was, but it does help in the conspiracy theories.

Time (not something Hearts have a lot of) will tell.

According to the last Companies House return made last December, 15% of the shares were held by Quantum Holdings. They are Swiss based and the only director is the Yam Queen of Fashion, Julija Goncaruk.

It would be nice to think the other 49.47% of the shares followed the Von-Trapp route to the safety of Switzerland. :greengrin

It would certainly explain Fedotavas's claim that Vlad still controlled Hearts, months after leaving UBIG to sink.

Footnote. In BDO's statement they list the Company share holders as listed in the last Hearts return. So they don't appear to know any more than anyone else.

[Dashing Bob S]

Seems like nobody can give a definitive answer as to the status of shares. I think there could be some interesting play over the next few weeks. (For Jambo fans looking in - I guarantee none of this will take place on the field at the PBS).

[Sergey]

May I ask a couple of question, Sergey?

1. How long are the shares likely to be frozen?

2. What happens when they become unfrozen?

Pure supposition on my part, but in answer to Q1 - Indefinitely, as they are the held under our equivalent of the 'Proceeds of Crime Act'. Here in the UK a case has to be concluded before the state can sell/claw back monies of a criminals ill-gotten gains. Given Vlad is AWOL then I really don't see a speedy outcome if the laws of the UK were the laws of Lithuania. There was seemingly a new piece of legislation recently passed in Lithuania regarding company insolvency and the legal ramifications could drag on for some time.

Q2 - The assets won't be dealt out like cards at a poker school as there's umpteen folks in almost every continent wanting a divvy at the morsels on offer.

I'm not personally over concerned about the CVA statement by BDO yesterday. There's no precedent as to what will happen regards the UBIG situation and I'm cosy that things are still on track.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm also in the lets not go all hand wringing and wrist slitting if somehow the Yams slither their way out of this one. To be honest the longer this has gone on the less I have found myself caring too much about the final outcome.

I have to say I never thought for a second that the Yams would cease to be, there are just too many examples of football clubs going to the brink for whatever reason and keeping going.

The good thing is that the Yams look very likely to get relegated. They have a massive game at the weekend and unfortunately for them Killie appear to have found a bit of form just at the wrong time. Or if you are a Killie or Hibs fan, the right time.

If they go down they will easily have the financial clout to have a team capable of doing well in the Scottish Championship. Unfortunately for them the Zombies will have a hell of a lot more, which leaves them needing to win a play off. Though I have no doubt whatsoever that the SPFL will be thinking hard about increasing the size of the Premiership to 14 teams in order to get the Zombies and the Yams back ASAP.

Whatever happens it will be a long long time before the Yams ever get back to the dizzy hights they achieved by cheating their way to the qualifying round of the Champions league and Scottish Cup wins.

The one thing that really will bug me is if the media and football authorities contine to ignore that fact that this football club have tarnished the reputation ( such as it is ) of Scottish football and allowed its own name to be dragged through the mud. In fact, if the SFA had any baws at all they would begin an investigation to determine if the circumstances under which Heart of Midlothian FC won the Scottish Cup in 2012 amounted to cheating, given the fact that the club were well aware a long time before the competition even started that they had a team full of players they couldnt afford to pay. In fact didnt pay ... if the fact remains that the Yams who played that day are still waiting for their bonuses.

Never mind the pain day that caused us as supporters. If you look at it from a business point of view Hibernian FC must have lost a fortune in merchandising, sponsorship and reduced season ticket sales as a result of not only losing that game, but to whom it was lost and the manner of the defeat. An argument could be made that we were cheated in a business sense ..... though how the law would look at that I have no idea.

[Gus Fring]

Here's a wee text from my man (or woman) on the inside. Make of it what you will

"CVA news conveniently coincided with a big drop in morale amongst the support and the squad so that should shift a few extra tickets for the weekend and the cup game. Brians no daft"

[#FromTheCapital]

Here's a wee text from my man (or woman) on the inside. Make of it what you will

"CVA news conveniently coincided with a big drop in morale amongst the support and the squad so that should shift a few extra tickets for the weekend and the cup game. Brians no daft"

Hmm, possibly BDO have known about the agreement in principal for time and only decided to make it public after said drop in morale. Either way it's still not great news.

[EK_Hibs]

Here's a wee text from my man (or woman) on the inside. Make of it what you will

"CVA news conveniently coincided with a big drop in morale amongst the support and the squad so that should shift a few extra tickets for the weekend and the cup game. Brians no daft"

Shift a few extra tickets for an away fixture and shift a few extra tickets for an already sold out cup game?
Not buying that in the slightest unfortunately.

Not nearly negative enough for my liking from your man (or woman) on the inside.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Shift a few extra tickets for an away fixture and shift a few extra tickets for an already sold out cup game?
Not buying that in the slightest unfortunately.

Not nearly negative enough for my liking from your man (or woman) on the inside.

The important part is that it has been used to counter the drop in morale, nothing has actually happened. Yet the fans are backing fully again and the DD's will keep coming in, this is the best chance at the moment the liths have of recouping some money so you don't the pricks to lose interest and cancel there DD's.

It's all propoganda, on a scale vlad would be proud of, although I doubt even he would go this far to fleece the fannies.

[Kojock]

Here's a wee text from my man (or woman) on the inside. Make of it what you will

"CVA news conveniently coincided with a big drop in morale amongst the support and the squad so that should shift a few extra tickets for the weekend and the cup game. Brians no daft"

I was saying this earlier. The Yams have two massive games coming up that could make or break their season. The news of a potential CVA gives them a boost and will galvanise the support for a couple of weeks. Stinks of mind games if you ask me.

[Gus Fring]

I was saying this earlier. The Yams have two massive games coming up that could make or break their season. The news of a potential CVA gives them a boost and will galvanise the support for a couple of weeks. Stinks of mind games if you ask me.

Correct. It wasn't finances they need it's the support. They need as many fans as possible at Killie, they desperately need a win. That's their priority at the moment, extra tickets for home matches are just a bonus now.

[Sergey]

I was saying this earlier. The Yams have two massive games coming up that could make or break their season. The news of a potential CVA gives them a boost and will galvanise the support for a couple of weeks. Stinks of mind games if you ask me.

It's also pleasing to watch them fritter their money away in backing the cause.

At the very best they'll be playing Div 1 football with home crowds of circa 5000 and hoping that DD's keep coming in to keep them afloat - that's their best case scenario.

I personally want the worst.

[derek0762]

I wonder if Killie will be the next club to give them a pound back for every away fanny they take to RP on Sat?

[truehibernian]

It's also pleasing to watch them fritter their money away in backing the cause.

At the very best they'll be playing Div 1 football with home crowds of circa 5000 and hoping that DD's keep coming in to keep them afloat - that's their best case scenario.

I personally want the worst.

Bursting your bubble Sergey but Hearts will get very decent crowds even in the Championship, much like Hibs did - it's almost like a 'girfuy' type stance - I remember going to watch Hibs thinking 'this'll show the premier league what they're missing' when we went down - and the crowds and atmosphere especially away was magic.

What Hibs didn't have to contend with was The Rangers - and they'll also potentially have to face a side like Killie 4 times too - they might not come back up first time, then that's where it'll bite big time.

Locke is an absolutely terrible appointment for them - that's what gives me hope they'll struggle and be relegated. Once that happens, he'll be binned and they'll appoint a Jimmy Calderwood type - and strangely enough that kind of manager is what they need.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Wonga. Mccraes battalion. Maroon. Ubig. Ukio bank. Cva. Gary cock. Tattooed twat. Death trap main stand. relegated before xmas. Fartz Fc.


Bursting your bubble Sergey but Hearts will get very decent crowds even in the Championship, much like Hibs did - it's almost like a 'girfuy' type stance - I remember going to watch Hibs thinking 'this'll show the premier league what they're missing' when we went down - and the crowds and atmosphere especially away was magic.

What Hibs didn't have to contend with was The Rangers - and they'll also potentially have to face a side like Killie 4 times too - they might not come back up first time, then that's where it'll bite big time.

Locke is an absolutely terrible appointment for them - that's what gives me hope they'll struggle and be relegated. Once that happens, he'll be binned and they'll appoint a Jimmy Calderwood type - and strangely enough that kind of manager is what they need.

Gary Cock's tv interviews are utterly embarrassing. If there's a brain cell in that head I want to see it.

Hearts will still struggle to jump back up to Premier. They might get decent crowds but they'll struggle all the same.

Be typical of Hibs to miss out on Europe again if they go down and huns still out premier.

[CropleyWasGod]

If Hearts were liquidated would the UBIG shares have any value?

I'm thinking here along the lines of the Rangers liquidation where the clubs name and history were apparently purchased as part of the £5.5m deal.

If you mean the UBIG shares in HMFC, no they would have no value. After selling off the assets, there would be nothing left to give to the shareholders.

That said, one of the assets would be the name, which anyone could buy. In Rangers case, that was valued at £1.

[greenginger]

Been having a troll through the web for information and came across this from last year.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/201686-mapping-hearts-finances-following-the-money-at-the-tynecastle-club/

Its by Jamie Borthwick and is quite a good summary of past events. I think I will pay more attention to his articles, miles better than the BBC's insults to journalism.

[CropleyWasGod]

Been having a troll through the web for information and came across this from last year.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/201686-mapping-hearts-finances-following-the-money-at-the-tynecastle-club/

Its by Jamie Borthwick and is quite a good summary of past events. I think I will pay more attention to his articles, miles better than the BBC's insults to journalism.

To be honest, all of that stuff is in the public domain. He's paid his £1 to Companies House, as anyone can, and got it there.

That's not being critical of him, but all the other journalists in this and the Rangers case who ignored the facts in favour of whatever spin was being fed to them.

[Dashing Bob S]

Bursting your bubble Sergey but Hearts will get very decent crowds even in the Championship, much like Hibs did - it's almost like a 'girfuy' type stance - I remember going to watch Hibs thinking 'this'll show the premier league what they're missing' when we went down - and the crowds and atmosphere especially away was magic.

What Hibs didn't have to contend with was The Rangers - and they'll also potentially have to face a side like Killie 4 times too - they might not come back up first time, then that's where it'll bite big time.

Locke is an absolutely terrible appointment for them - that's what gives me hope they'll struggle and be relegated. Once that happens, he'll be binned and they'll appoint a Jimmy Calderwood type - and strangely enough that kind of manager is what they need.

I'm not so sure they will get decent crowds. I think Hearts might be *****ing away the GIRFUY premium on a doomed Premiership campaign. I feel that there might be nothing left in the Gorgie gonads for the Championship, especially as they'll be playing for 2nd place.

[Treadstone]

To be honest, all of that stuff is in the public domain. He's paid his £1 to Companies House, as anyone can, and got it there.

Don't think he did pay that £1. When you posted that creditors list I tweeted him to tell him it was on here and he asked me to email him it (I did).

Agree with greenginger though, certainly a step up from #allisbarry and Laughgate.

[PatHead]

Bursting your bubble Sergey but Hearts will get very decent crowds even in the Championship, much like Hibs did - it's almost like a 'girfuy' type stance - I remember going to watch Hibs thinking 'this'll show the premier league what they're missing' when we went down - and the crowds and atmosphere especially away was magic.

What Hibs didn't have to contend with was The Rangers - and they'll also potentially have to face a side like Killie 4 times too - they might not come back up first time, then that's where it'll bite big time.

Locke is an absolutely terrible appointment for them - that's what gives me hope they'll struggle and be relegated. Once that happens, he'll be binned and they'll appoint a Jimmy Calderwood type - and strangely enough that kind of manager is what they need.

Hibs average at home in the first division was 10,433. A lot less than our average over the last 6 years.

[ScottB]

Hibs average at home in the first division was 10,433. A lot less than our average over the last 6 years.

Plus those were people turning up to watch a Hibs team that very nearly won every week, with stylish performances to go along with it.

A weak, battered Hearts side, with no guarantee of even finishing second will not have the punters turning up en mass.

[Glesgahibby]

Crops,serg,bajillions or anyone else,
This CVA procedure,do ukio as a secured creditor need to go through this process as a formality or can they say no thanks without it ???

[God Petrie]

It's going to be an interesting battle in Edinburgh over the coming years to be honest and I'm looking forward to it. Hearts vs Spartans vs Edinburgh City for 2nd club in the city.

[Ray_]

Hibs average at home in the first division was 10,433. A lot less than our average over the last 6 years.

Although this is just a guess, I wouldn't imagine it was a lot less than our average at the time though.

[rcarter1]

Plus those were people turning up to watch a Hibs team that very nearly won every week, with stylish performances to go along with it.

A weak, battered Hearts side, with no guarantee of even finishing second will not have the punters turning up en mass.

Hearts dont need stylish to motivate their support, just a good old scrap will do. The Rangers will keep things interesting for them, so perhaps next season Pat should strategically aim for second bottom. :agree:

IF they get relegated (touch wood, crossed fingers etc....)

[H18sry]

Hearts dont need stylish to motivate their support, just a good old scrap will do. The Rangers will keep things interesting for them, so perhaps next season Pat should strategically aim for second bottom. :agree:

IF they get relegated (touch wood, crossed fingers etc....)

Eh no, with our record we would lose and swap places with them :grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Caversham Green]

I'm not so sure they will get decent crowds. I think Hearts might be *****ing away the GIRFUY premium on a doomed Premiership campaign. I feel that there might be nothing left in the Gorgie gonads for the Championship, especially as they'll be playing for 2nd place.

It's also worth pointing out that on average they've paid more than twice as much as Hibs fans to watch this season's football and will be paying substantially more for Championship football next season. How long will that last?

[Onion]

It's also worth pointing out that on average they've paid more than twice as much as Hibs fans to watch this season's football and will be paying substantially more for Championship football next season. How long will that last?

They're feeding off the success they've enjoyed over the last 7 years so happy to pay over the odds now. Without that, they would have lost interest long ago.

On a slight tangent, it was interesting to read about how much Liverpool played in motivating SAF ( the most successful manager ever) and how important it was for him and MUFC. That's exactly the same with the Yams. We are what drives them on. Hibs do not use the Yams in same way. Celtic have the Huns and vice versa but Hibs have who ??!

[Part/Time Supporter]

Although this is just a guess, I wouldn't imagine it was a lot less than our average at the time though.

I think I would be right in saying that most (if not all) of the drop in Hibs average attendance from 97/98 (12025) to 98/99 (10433) and then the jump back up to 99/00 (12070) was due to the loss of the larger away supports. In each of the two top flight seasons there would have been six games against Huntic and Hearts out of the 18, which would add about 1300 to the season average (4000 * 6 / 18).

I suppose it could be argued that the home support was maintained by Hibs basically operating an SPL payroll in the First Division, gambling that the squad would be strong enough to win promotion at the first attempt. Other teams that have had financial problems and then been relegated (eg Dundee) have had more difficulty in sustaining that kind of effort.

I think this idea though that Hearts crowds are suddenly going to melt away is a bit fanciful. Crowd numbers tend to be a lot more consistent nowadays from season to season than they were back in the 60s, 70s or 80s, when far fewer people had season tickets. Where you see a big change in numbers is if the effect is repeated over 3-4 seasons, ie if the team plays well or poorly consistently. We've seen that with Hibs in the last 10 years, where the average has gone from 10,000 in the Bobby years, up to 14,000 in the Mowbray / Collins period, then back to 10,000 now. But the numbers didn't go up or down 4,000 in one year.

[CropleyWasGod]

Crops,serg,bajillions or anyone else,
This CVA procedure,do ukio as a secured creditor need to go through this process as a formality or can they say no thanks without it ???

As the secured creditor, they are not bound by a positive CVA vote.

However, as a partly unsecured creditor, they have a vote in it. If they vote against it (or, indeed, don't vote at all), there will not be the 75% majority required to carry it.

[Caversham Green]

They're feeding off the success they've enjoyed over the last 7 years so happy to pay over the odds now. Without that, they would have lost interest long ago.

On a slight tangent, it was interesting to read about how much Liverpool played in motivating SAF ( the most successful manager ever) and how important it was for him and MUFC. That's exactly the same with the Yams. We are what drives them on. Hibs do not use the Yams in same way. Celtic have the Huns and vice versa but Hibs have who ??!

I disagree with the first part. They're paying over the odds now because the threat of extinction has concentrated their minds. If Hibs were to get themselves in the same mess now we'd see a similar reaction from the fans but instead we moan about ST prices because our future is not under any threat.

I agree with the second point, but that is at least partly to do with the fans - maybe it's time to step up the rivalry, particularly since we're going to dominate them for the next decade at least.

[jacomo]

On a slight tangent, it was interesting to read about how much Liverpool played in motivating SAF ( the most successful manager ever) and how important it was for him and MUFC. That's exactly the same with the Yams. We are what drives them on. Hibs do not use the Yams in same way. Celtic have the Huns and vice versa but Hibs have who ??!

Hibs feature prominently in everything the Yams are doing - from the FoH video (endorsed by Ian Murray MP) to the '£51' a month DD option they highlighted. Personally I think it's pathetic and, to borrow a phrase, oozing with cringe. It's almost creepy.

We don't need to do the same. After all, what happened to Man Utd after they knocked LFC off their f***ing perch? They went on to achieve even more by embedding a culture of winning at the club.

It will nice if Hibs can establish dominance in Edinburgh. But that should be seen as the starting point for us, not the end goal.

[Peevemor]

Hibs feature prominently in everything the Yams are doing - from the FoH video (endorsed by Ian Murray MP) to the '£51' a month DD option they highlighted. Personally I think it's pathetic and, to borrow a phrase, oozing with cringe. It's almost creepy.

We don't need to do the same. After all, what happened to Man Utd after they knocked LFC off their f***ing perch? They went on to achieve even more by embedding a culture of winning at the club.

It will nice if Hibs can establish dominance in Edinburgh. But that should be seen as the starting point for us, not the end goal.

It's natural that we compare ourselves to clubs of roughly the same size/average attendance - which in our case is HoMoFC and Aberdeen.

[Jack]

IMO if they are in the Championship next year something substantial is gonna give.

STs will take a thumping.
Crowds will dwindle.
Walk ups won't walk up.
The Diddies DDs will dry up.

The goodwill and rallying calls this season associated with their survival won't last much beyond a fruitless transfer window when their fate will be sealed.

Cash at tynie next weason will be in even shorter supply than it is now.

Like this season their on field performance will tail off like a lemming swallow diving off the crumbling main stand roof.

But now for the bad news ...

Having just looked into my squeaky clean crystal balls I can see them being liquidated and if they exist at all it will be in a league so far down they'll need a super sub to get there - and no tynie.

[Makaveli]

IMO if they are in the Championship next year something substantial is gonna give.
STs will take a thumping.
Crowds will dwindle.
Walk ups won't walk up.
The Diddies DDs will dry up.

The goodwill and rallying calls this season associated with their survival won't last much beyond a fruitless transfer window when their fate will be sealed.

Cash at tynie next weason will be in even shorter supply than it is now.

Like this season their on field performance will tail off like a lemming swallow diving off the crumbling main stand roof.

But now for the bad news ...

Having just looked into my squeaky clean crystal balls I can see them being liquidated and if they exist at all it will be in a league so far down they'll need a super sub to get there - and no tynie.

I believe so.

It'll be nothing like when we went down and crowds stayed pretty stable. We were steamrolling the division and had an amazing side even for SPL level once Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu arrived.

Their youths will struggle against good clubs who'll view them as a scalp — Falkirk, Livi, Raith, Dundee etc.

And that's not even factoring in the Huns murdering them four times. :agree:

[jacomo]

I believe so.

It'll be nothing like when we went down and crowds stayed pretty stable. We were steamrolling the division and had an amazing side even for SPL level once Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu arrived.

Their youths will struggle against good clubs who'll view them as a scalp — Falkirk, Livi, Raith, Dundee etc.

And that's not even factoring in the Huns murdering them four times. :agree:

If they are in the 'Championship' next season it seems most likely that they will be out of administration by then. In which case, they should have some leeway to assemble a halfway competent squad that could bully most teams in that division. The Yams would probably like that - a team of hardened journeymen to hoof their way to runners up spot.

[Glesgahibby]

As the secured creditor, they are not bound by a positive CVA vote.

However, as a partly unsecured creditor, they have a vote in it. If they vote against it (or, indeed, don't vote at all), there will not be the 75% majority required to carry it.
Sorry CWG,I don't think I worded my question properly.
basicaly what I meant was can (if they wanted) UKIO admins take tyncastle at any point without going through a cva as they have security over tyncastle,or does the process of a cva for unsecured/secured creditors have to take place first.
In a nutshell if there's a cva on the table and they don't like it,they can say nope give us the keys and then vote on whatever is left.
:rolleyes: Can they ask for the keys today(game over):confused:

[Geo_1875]

If they are in the 'Championship' next season it seems most likely that they will be out of administration by then. In which case, they should have some leeway to assemble a halfway competent squad that could bully most teams in that division. The Yams would probably like that - a team of hardened journeymen to hoof their way to runners up spot.

I think that they would probably have to overspend to get out of the Championship. So nothing new there then.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry CWG,I don't think I worded my question properly.
basicaly what I meant was can (if they wanted) UKIO admins take tyncastle at any point without going through a cva as they have security over tyncastle,or does the process of a cva for unsecured/secured creditors have to take place first.
In a nutshell if there's a cva on the table and they don't like it,they can say nope give us the keys and then vote on whatever is left.
:rolleyes: Can they ask for the keys today(game over):confused:

I am pretty sure they could do that at any point.

The spin, though, is that they're not going to do that..... yet.

[TrinityHibs]

I think that they would probably have to overspend to get out of the Championship. So nothing new there then.

Who will give them money. FoH will have the team but the security for the ground would lie with the Budge woman. The Diddies will be paying of the loan to buy the club. They will be using up next years ST cash to get to the end of the season. So walk ups and TV money to invest in the squad. Don't see many world cup stars coming in myself.

[Weststandwanab]

I am pretty sure they could do that at any point.

The spin, though, is that they're not going to do that..... yet. CWG they can indeed having given 28 days notice of the intention to do so and I agree with the spin but I think it is coming !


Who will give them money. FoH will have the team but the security for the ground would lie with the Budge woman. The Diddies will be paying of the loan to buy the club. They will be using up next years ST cash to get to the end of the season. So walk ups and TV money to invest in the squad. Don't see many world cup stars coming in myself. The $64,000 question indeed.

[Springbank]

Who will give them money. FoH will have the team but the security for the ground would lie with the Budge woman. The Diddies will be paying of the loan to buy the club. They will be using up next years ST cash to get to the end of the season. So walk ups and TV money to invest in the squad. Don't see many world cup stars coming in myself.

Don't know if you saw Walter smith in the press 2 weeks ago going on about "rangers are different, we *need* to get through the divisions and entertain 45000 people" so he thought spending £18m to win Scotland's 4th tier was justifiable and sensible.

That type of "nothing learned nothing changed" mindset will definitely prevail at hearts, where they are not the brightest buttons in town.

So it's great to see the rangers in there too next season.
Cue mutual destruction as the money (they don't have) gets flung on a bonfire of mediocre journeymen

[Sergey]

Who will give them money. FoH will have the team but the security for the ground would lie with the Budge woman. The Diddies will be paying of the loan to buy the club. They will be using up next years ST cash to get to the end of the season. So walk ups and TV money to invest in the squad. Don't see many world cup stars coming in myself.

What TV money do you get for playing in Division 1?

[Ozyhibby]

Who will give them money. FoH will have the team but the security for the ground would lie with the Budge woman. The Diddies will be paying of the loan to buy the club. They will be using up next years ST cash to get to the end of the season. So walk ups and TV money to invest in the squad. Don't see many world cup stars coming in myself.

Very little tv money in championship. About £35,000 per club. Would even get me to play for them for that.

[Weststandwanab]

What TV money do you get for playing in Division 1? A minor distribution from the SPFL.

[Treadstone]

Noticed this the other day on the tweet machine. A director of the 'Big Hearts' charity i think (no s******ing at the back). Talking about the Wolfsburg game and who arranged it (against Golden Garys' wishes).

Lawrence Broadie ‏@lawrencebroadie (https://twitter.com/lawrencebroadie)21 Oct (https://twitter.com/lawrencebroadie/status/392302592531107840)
@serialsockthief (https://twitter.com/serialsockthief) @mattleslie74 (https://twitter.com/mattleslie74) david Southern with full support and encouragement of BDO. There is a big cash flow deficit mar-June

[Keith_M]

Hibs average at home in the first division was 10,433. A lot less than our average over the last 6 years.


Our average attendance last season was 10,489 (56 more per game). That includes full (or almost full) away ends when Hearts and Celtc visited.

I'd suggest our first division support was actually bigger than it is now.

However, that only happens if you kep winning.



UPDATE: I decided to check your assertion of the average over the last six years. Despite the fact we had 3 Cat A teams in the league for 5 out of 6 years (and two for last year), the average was 11,778, only 1,345 more per game.

[jgl07]

Very little tv money in championship. About £35,000 per club. Would even get me to play for them for that.

What with Hearts and The Rangers in it?

[JeMeSouviens]

Very little tv money in championship. About £35,000 per club. Would even get me to play for them for that.

It's gone up a bit following the league merger.

Bottom premier team gets 4.07% of central income (tv + sponsorship), top championship team gets 2.15%.

See http://sport.stv.tv/football/229106-how-much-money-does-your-club-stand-to-make-from-league-reconstruction/

[Glesgahibby]

I am pretty sure they could do that at any point.

The spin, though, is that they're not going to do that..... yet.
cheers mate,
the reason I ask is two fold..
1)if they couldn't,then they are just going through the formalitys of the cva process.
2)if they could,the longer UBIGs shares are not available,there's a chance they might pull the plug.
as for spin,they could give Calvin Harris a run for his money:greengrin

[dangermouse]

Hibs feature prominently in everything the Yams are doing - from the FoH video (endorsed by Ian Murray MP) to the '£51' a month DD option they highlighted. Personally I think it's pathetic and, to borrow a phrase, oozing with cringe. It's almost creepy.

We don't need to do the same. After all, what happened to Man Utd after they knocked LFC off their f***ing perch? They went on to achieve even more by embedding a culture of winning at the club.

It will nice if Hibs can establish dominance in Edinburgh. But that should be seen as the starting point for us, not the end goal.

I have just read a very interesting piece written by someone who followed Sir Alex during his last year in charge at Old Trafford. It included interviews on how he had made the whole club (not just the team) successful. It stemmed from a revamp of the youth system to not taking any active part in training but just observing. Don't ask me to post a link as it was a hard copy but if his philosophy was introduced at Hibs and allowed to grow we'd scoosh the league every year.

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

If HMFC secure a CVA and wipe their slate clean that will clear the way for significant investment in them from interested parties. FOH would conceed some if not all of their share holding against representative access to the running of their club so they can argue their goal is secured. The question of Tynecastle will be resolved by EDC [sponsored by the Scottish Government] creating a community stadium complex for HMFC and Edinburgh Rugby as tennants. Probably through PFI.
Assuming they go down this season they'll get the 2nd promotional spot from Div 1on offer next season after a play-off.
A CVA will be the best oportunity HMFC have of surviving and becoming a force in Scottish Fotball once again.
Not happy but I see this coming to pass.:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

If HMFC secure a CVA and wipe their slate clean that will clear the way for significant investment in them from interested parties. FOH would conceed some if not all of their share holding against representative access to the running of their club so they can argue their goal is secured. The question of Tynecastle will be resolved by EDC [sponsored by the Scottish Government] creating a community stadium comples for HMFC and Edinburgh Rugby as tennants. Probably through PFI.
Assumong they go down this season they'll get the 2nd promotional spot from Div 1on offer next season after a play-off.
A CVA will be the best oportunity HMFC have of surviving and becoming a force in Scottish Fotball once again.
Not happy but I see this coming to pass.:rolleyes:

Not sure I agree.

For one thing, the slate will not be wiped clean. They will still have a significant debt to the funders, secured against an asset that needs expensive upgrading very quickly.

As for "interested parties", an investment in a football club these days, particularly in Scotland, is not something I would ever advise people to do if they're trying to make money out of it.

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

For one thing, the slate will not be wiped clean. They will still have a significant debt to the funders, secured against an asset that needs expensive upgrading very quickly.

Run that by me again? To whom would they owe a significant sum? I thought the CVA cleared their responsibilitite to the their creditors?

[CropleyWasGod]

For one thing, the slate will not be wiped clean. They will still have a significant debt to the funders, secured against an asset that needs expensive upgrading very quickly.

Run that by me again? To whom would they owe a significant sum? I thought the CVA cleared their responsibilitite to the their creditors?

The purchase of the shares of the company is being funded by the likes of Ann Budge (under the BIDCO banner). That money has to be repaid, starting next year, from the working capital of the new owners (FANCO).

[Leishy1995]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20121025/hearts-to-launch-share-offer_2241384_2959577

The anniversary of the share issue. Credit @onthisdayhfc

[Jack]

If HMFC secure a CVA and wipe their slate clean that will clear the way for significant investment in them from interested parties. FOH would conceed some if not all of their share holding against representative access to the running of their club so they can argue their goal is secured. The question of Tynecastle will be resolved by EDC [sponsored by the Scottish Government] creating a community stadium comples for HMFC and Edinburgh Rugby as tennants. Probably through PFI.
Assumong they go down this season they'll get the 2nd promotional spot from Div 1on offer next season after a play-off.
A CVA will be the best oportunity HMFC have of surviving and becoming a force in Scottish Fotball once again.
Not happy but I see this coming to pass.:rolleyes:

Jeez peeps I nearly fell off my unicorn when I read that.
The kinda stuff the deluded ones dream about. But.

It's not going to happen.

None of it.

The significant money made me s******. I assume all the interested parties are currently in a darkened room somewhere?

The community stadium had me in stitches. EDC has no money and you think the Scottish Government have money to burn on this sort of thing after paying for the Commonwealth Games?

[greenginger]

The purchase of the shares of the company is being funded by the likes of Ann Budge (under the BIDCO banner). That money has to be repaid, starting next year, from the working capital of the new owners (FANCO).


Plus football debts of £ 535180.00

[CropleyWasGod]

Plus football debts of £ 535180.00

Indeed.

But that's the wages of a striker. They won't need one in the Chumpionship.:wink:

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

The purchase of the shares of the company is being funded by the likes of Ann Budge (under the BIDCO banner). That money has to be repaid, starting next year, from the working capital of the new owners (FANCO).

Yes I recognise that debt [just didn't link it to the CVA]which I'm guessing is about £2.5m
Don't see that as an impediment to any interested party or consortium buying control of HMFC from FOH. Agreee Scottish foootbal is not an investment opportunity but I do belive there are enough Hearts minded people who are in a position to make a bid for the club to stabilise and fund them. The CVA paves the way for their interest to increase. FOH is is stop gap until that happens.

[Mikey]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

I hope you're not accusing me of knowing what I'm talking about!

That way lies legal action..... :greengrin

[Glesgahibby]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin
Sometimes think I know what I'm talking about and sometimes :confused:
One thing for sure,I know the people I'm listening to :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

Yep, there's been a tendency throughout for some Hibs fans to invent ways that HoMFC could get out of their mess and end up stronger than before or simply predict that they wouldn't go into administration in the first place. The latest developments might mean they'll get out of administration (I'm not yet convinced about that) but the stronger bit just ain't gonna happen.

[jgl07]

Yep, there's been a tendency throughout for some Hibs fans to invent ways that HoMFC could get out of their mess and end up stronger than before or simply predict that they wouldn't go into administration in the first place.
Plus the usual stuff about the Jambo Council building them a state of the art 25,000 seater stadium.

[O'Rourke3]

It feels as though this entire thread has turned into an Cable TV series. Loads of promise in the first two series, then a lot of padding and ridiculous plot lines until the rating go down and possibly finishing with an improbable end when the sponsorship goes or the audience move over to Glee.....

This is going to play out badly in the end for the Poppy Thieves but it will not be Game of Thrones spectacular death or execution - maybe more of a Theon plot line (for those that have read that far....) and so long as they are hurting and will be under financial pressure for the considerable, that'll do for me. I never wanted them gone but I did want them harmed :devil:

Like Mikey, I'll be sticking with those posters who bring some perspective to the thread and look forward to the next cliff hanger....

Meanwhile congratulations to whoever invented the STF rumour about paying the debt to the LH Foundation. That's got everyone wound up good and proper :not worth

[GreenCastle]

Yep, there's been a tendency throughout for some Hibs fans to invent ways that HoMFC could get out of their mess and end up stronger than before or simply predict that they wouldn't go into administration in the first place. The latest developments might mean they'll get out of administration (I'm not yet convinced about that) but the stronger bit just ain't gonna happen.

:agree:

We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

[Aldo]

There's a pattern developing here. The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford. I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

Sorry Mikey what were you saying there I wasnae really listening! :-D

[Dashing Bob S]

:agree:

We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.


I like that. I hope that sticks. TCWNS

[jgl07]

:agree:

We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

That sums it up quite well.

They were never going to disappear, they have too big and too enthusiastic a fan base for that to happen.

The worst case scenario was (and is) liquidation and a Sevco style re-incarnation either in SPFL League or Lowland League (with or without Tynecastle). It will not be as easy for Hearts to run through the divisions like The Rangers are likely to do. Having said that the support that The Hearts will be able to command should make it easy for them to outspend every team they are likely to encounter on the way. In some respects not having Tynecastle with its high cost of maintenance and insurance and renting, say, Livingston may make the return easier.

The best case scenario of coming out of administration with Tynecastle and staying up looks very unlikely at the moment. A loss at Killie could go some way to seal their fate. The second best scenario would be out of administration with Tynecastle but going down. They will be strapped for cash from the start with high costs (as with The Rangers) for ground maintenance and insurance and automatic promotion would be beyond their reach (unless The Rangers are liquidated for a second time?). They would be dependent on making it through a four team play-off if they are to come straight back. That will be far from easy.

History has shown that few relegated SPL teams come straight back up. Hibs did so as did Inverness. Dundee United, but they had to do it via the playoff and were within seconds of elimination before winning after extra time. Despite that I think that Hearts would be back in the Premiership within a couple of seasons. Question is would they retain their current support or would it melt away given that they would be watching a team that they could afford to field rather than one they could not afford as was the experience from Mercer onwards?

Hibs retained their support in Division One but I do not see Hearts being able to sign the likes of Russell Latapy, Franck Sauzee, Mixu Paateleinen, or even John Hughes and Paul Fenwick.

Whatever happens the Tynecastle question must be addressed. They need to either move to a new ground or spend serious cash on replacing the main stand. Sooner or later it will have to be closed. The rest of the stadium looks rather shabby as well. How will Hearts as a fan controlled club be able to raise the cash for that as well as paying off the Biddies?

Yes Hearts may well be around the SPFL Premiership but they will not be the Hearts that we have known for the past 30 years.

[Waxy]

Nevermind the main stand, i remember hearing that the other three newer stands only had a short lifespan.
Around 25/30 years if i remember right.Or was i dreaming?

[brog]

I think Ian Murray should be asked the following. " If F of H gain control of HoMFC can you please give a commitment that the new owners will reimburse the Big Hearts charity for the £34,045 purloined by the previous administration. " Unless & until they do this they will always remain charity thieves.
Oh & David Southern has never yet satisfactorily explained how this "loan" occurred.
The club with no shame indeed, or the Infamous!

[Treadstone]

Apologies if this has already been answered.

The FoH plan to let every fannie with a diddie have a vote, is this above board regarding not paying any tax on this income stream ?

I personally think the blazer chasers in the FoH will reveal this to fans after they've positioned their feet nicely under the table.

[Mikey]

Yes Hearts may well be around the SPFL Premiership but they will not be the Hearts that we have known for the past 30 years.

Spot on sir. They won't even be close to it.

[greenpaper55]

Don't forget that they will sell any of the "wonderkids" that they can in the January transfer window, thats those kids that are so good they are heading for the 1st division !.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies if this has already been answered.

The FoH plan to let every fannie with a diddie have a vote, is this above board regarding not paying any tax on this income stream ?

I personally think the blazer chasers in the FoH will reveal this to fans after they've positioned their feet nicely under the table.

Trying hard to suppress my inner Sid James....

There is no "income" as such. It's a donation.

[monktonharp]

:agree:

We all knew they would be still here in some form -

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame. the very best way to move that process forward quickly, would be to beat them on Wednesday with a very good Hibs support to help, regardless of the results coming up this weekend.

[rcarter1]

It feels as though this entire thread has turned into an Cable TV series. Loads of promise in the first two series, then a lot of padding and ridiculous plot lines until the rating go down and possibly finishing with an improbable end when the sponsorship goes or the audience move over to Glee.....

This is going to play out badly in the end for the Poppy Thieves but it will not be Game of Thrones spectacular death or execution - maybe more of a Theon plot line (for those that have read that far....) and so long as they are hurting and will be under financial pressure for the considerable, that'll do for me. I never wanted them gone but I did want them harmed :devil:

Like Mikey, I'll be sticking with those posters who bring some perspective to the thread and look forward to the next cliff hanger....

Meanwhile congratulations to whoever invented the STF rumour about paying the debt to the LH Foundation. That's got everyone wound up good and proper :not worth

Like it :thumbsup: It has been gruelling and amusing in equal measure. Cant wait for the final episode. :greengrin

[Onion]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

How do you know who knows what they're talking about until it becomes known :cb

[Treadstone]

Trying hard to suppress my inner Sid James....

There is no "income" as such. It's a donation.

Kind of my point. Then they should receive nothing in return, ie a vote ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Kind of my point. Then they should receive nothing in return, ie a vote ?

Shareholders get to vote at Company meetings. The money they pay into the company isn't treated as income.

Granted, the DD's aren't share money but, in essence, they are one and the same. Fans giving money to the club, which will never be repaid.

[Deansy]

The important part is that it has been used to counter the drop in morale, nothing has actually happened. Yet the fans are backing fully again and the DD's will keep coming in, this is the best chance at the moment the liths have of recouping some money so you don't the pricks to lose interest and cancel there DD's.

It's all propoganda, on a scale vlad would be proud of, although I doubt even he would go this far to fleece the fannies.

They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.


The purchase of the shares of the company is being funded by the likes of Ann Budge (under the BIDCO banner). That money has to be repaid, starting next year, from the working capital of the new owners (FANCO).

Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

[Jack]

There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to :greengrin

Are you suggesting I did fall off my unicorn?

You cad.

Unless you withdraw I shall have no alternative but to send over dragon to toast your motor.

[Springbank]

They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.



Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

Spot on.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

This lot can morally justify stiffing their own charity, plus macrae and lady Haig, in order to get one Ngoo in return.

Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

[hibees 7062]

Spot on.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

This lot can morally justify stiffing their own charity, plus macrae and lady Haig, in order to get one Ngoo in return.

Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

Hope she likes cakes and needs steps painted :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.



Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

Yes, I agree, and so it should. Fans are being asked to donate, business people are being asked to give loans from which they'll receive interest. This stinks to the high heaven and the penny will drop when it comes to collecting the cash. It's easy to get folks to pledge in the heat of the moment - it's much harder to get them to pay up in the cold light of day.

This is not a sustainable financial model for Hearts or any other club, it was conceived in desperation and it will perish in the same manner. I'd love to see a CVA happen on this basis - the results would be a hilarious, painful and embarrassing public demise, followed by a Jambo Civil War of biblical proportions.

Bring it on!

[Leithenhibby]

Yes, I agree, and so it should. Fans are being asked to donate, business people are being asked to give loans from which they'll receive interest. This stinks to the high heaven and the penny will drop when it comes to collecting the cash. It's easy to get folks to pledge in the heat of the moment - it's much harder to get them to pay up in the cold light of day.

This is not a sustainable financial model for Hearts or any other club, it was conceived in desperation and it will perish in the same manner. I'd love to see a CVA happen on this basis - the results would be a hilarious, painful and embarrassing public demise, followed by a Jambo Civil War of biblical proportions.

Bring it on!

Pleasing.......... :greengrin

I'd laugh my socks off, again!....

[Sanger]

Plus the usual stuff about the Jambo Council building them a state of the art 25,000 seater stadium.

As I've said several times my mate is a senior sports official for the council and he says the council have no intention or the money to build a stadium for anyone. They intend to revamp Meadowbank turning it to a running and fields sports centre with stands. The council are faced with finding cuts of £100 million over the next few years and fund a shortfall in the trams funding.

The formal in the CVA is a formal approval to proceed not acceptance of the offer. It is the only way to see what FOH can really put on the table. It allows the creditors and BDO to to say we have done all we could but what is on offer in hard cash is way short of any compromise deal which sells Tynie at a discount to its real market price.

[Kaiser1962]

Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

I suspect she knows this. If she doesn't, she should.

[#FromTheCapital]

I suspect she knows this. If she doesn't, she should.

If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

[greenginger]

If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

There will be interest payments to be met first. £ 5 million at 5% is £ 250,000 per year and a completely new concept to the Yams, who seemed to have accrued the interest on their borrowings since time began.

Paying all their bills as they fall due will be like living on a different planet to the Gorgie fraudsters.

[Kaiser1962]

If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

Football does not have a history of financially rewarding those that put up their own money. Or others money for that matter. Wee Fergus is the obvious one but other than that, its always jam tomorrow.

[poolman]

As I've said several times my mate is a senior sports official for the council and he says the council have no intention or the money to build a stadium for anyone. They intend to revamp Meadowbank turning it to a running and fields sports centre with stands. The council are faced with finding cuts of £100 million over the next few years and fund a shortfall in the trams funding.

The formal in the CVA is a formal approval to proceed not acceptance of the offer. It is the only way to see what FOH can really put on the table. It allows the creditors and BDO to to say we have done all we could but what is on offer in hard cash is way short of any compromise deal which sells Tynie at a discount to its real market price.


:agree: There is no way the Cooncil is going to build anything for that shower

At the moment there is a new round of VERA ( early redundancy ) and also asking certain staff if they would like 3 months unpaid leave

[HibbyAndy]

So they got away with it eh. Kent this long long ago.Spawny barstewards

[Ozyhibby]

There will be interest payments to be met first. £ 5 million at 5% is £ 250,000 per year and a completely new concept to the Yams, who seemed to have accrued the interest on their borrowings since time began.

Paying all their bills as they fall due will be like living on a different planet to the Gorgie fraudsters.

They only need 1500 diddies to keep paying £16 a month to make the interest payments on that. Very achievable if they currently have 7000 diddies.

[green day]

They only need 1500 diddies to keep paying £16 a month to make the interest payments on that. Very achievable if they currently have 7000 diddies.

OK, so assume 7000 x £16 x 12 months less the interest is ~ £1.1M

Pretty good going for the Diddies fundraising?

Aye not bad but they must keep that up for 5 years to repay the Biddies?

5 years in which they must live within their means, 5 years of not being the big team, 5 years of upkeep on the asbestos pit - namely what all other teams have to do - live within their means.

Do we really #believe this will happen?

All I see is a lingering sense of boredom among the idiots, followed in a few years time by some other admin/insolvency event.

Whatever happens - They and their financial behaviors will never be the same again.

[Hibrandenburg]

Everyone is forgetting one important fact. Anne Budge is one of their own so in effect they'll owe their debts to themselves. Can't possibly go wrong!

[lapsedhibee]

Everyone is forgetting one important fact. Anne Budge is one of their own so in effect they'll owe their debts to themselves.

Lucky barstewards. With that unassailable financial base they'll soon outgrow us, we'll no longer be their rivals and no team in the world will ever beat them 5-0!

[Pretty Boy]

Lucky barstewards. With that unassailable financial base they'll soon outgrow us, we'll no longer be their rivals and no team in the world will ever beat them 5-0!

European Champions within 5 years with a couple of World Cup stars plying their trade in front of the £51M super stand.

What can possibly go wrong with ambition like that?

[jacomo]

OK, so assume 7000 x £16 x 12 months less the interest is ~ £1.1M

Pretty good going for the Diddies fundraising?

Aye not bad but they must keep that up for 5 years to repay the Biddies?

5 years in which they must live within their means, 5 years of not being the big team, 5 years of upkeep on the asbestos pit - namely what all other teams have to do - live within their means.

Do we really #believe this will happen?

All I see is a lingering sense of boredom among the idiots, followed in a few years time by some other admin/insolvency event.

Whatever happens - They and their financial behaviors will never be the same again.

I think it's at least possible that the biddies forgive at least some of the interest due / debt. After all we assume they are Jambos and not immune to emotional reasons to lend their support.

However I cannot see a long term future at Tynecastle for them. Budge or whoever might intend to cash out when they sell the site. And therefore with massive council subsidy, how can they afford to build a stadium of similar capacity anywhere in Edinburgh?

[Onion]

OK, so assume 7000 x £16 x 12 months less the interest is ~ £1.1M

Pretty good going for the Diddies fundraising?

Aye not bad but they must keep that up for 5 years to repay the Biddies?

5 years in which they must live within their means, 5 years of not being the big team, 5 years of upkeep on the asbestos pit - namely what all other teams have to do - live within their means.

Do we really #believe this will happen?

All I see is a lingering sense of boredom among the idiots, followed in a few years time by some other admin/insolvency event.

Whatever happens - They and their financial behaviors will never be the same again.


That's one scenario. But this is a club that has proven itself to be without morals or shame who in desparation accepted an unknown foreign control freak take over everything. They've gone completely bust with £Millions of unpaid debts yet STILL have their home and top league status - along with all success they've enjoyed over the last few years.

What's REALLY changed that suggests they would not be prepared to do that again in a heartbeat? The Yams should be seen as druggies who sold their souls to the devil for short term fix, have OD'd and now trying to get clean. That might work for a while but a few months/years of utter crap and hardship will have them dreaming of glory and good old days.

My problem with this whole sorry affair is there is NOTHING to deter them from doing this all again ? The benefits completely outweigh the cost. There are plenty of Vlad-types around football who might see an ailing capital club, with a amoral fan-base, as a fun toy.

[monktonharp]

you do mean without a council subsidy?


That's one scenario. But this is a club that has proven itself to be without morals or shame who in desparation accepted an unknown foreign control freak take over everything. They've gone completely bust with £Millions of unpaid debts yet STILL have their home and top league status - along with all success they've enjoyed over the last few years.

What's REALLY changed that suggests they would not be prepared to do that again in a heartbeat? The Yams should be seen as druggies who sold their souls to the devil for short term fix, have OD'd and now trying to get clean. That might work for a while but a few months/years of utter crap and hardship will have them dreaming of glory and good old days.

My problem with this whole sorry affair is there is NOTHING to deter them from doing this all again ? The benefits completely outweigh the cost. There are plenty of Vlad-types around football who might see an ailing capital club, with a amoral fan-base, as a fun toy.:agree: all true.although I know quite a few that follow them and for the most part, they are decent guys, working and paying their way in society. the trouble I've got ,when we all have a few beers in us is that NONE of them regret anything that has happened. all worth it, in their opinion, and this was all said weeks ago well before any mention of a CVA settlement. for that, I hope it goes pear shaped for them

[Ozyhibby]

OK, so assume 7000 x £16 x 12 months less the interest is ~ £1.1M

Pretty good going for the Diddies fundraising?

Aye not bad but they must keep that up for 5 years to repay the Biddies?

5 years in which they must live within their means, 5 years of not being the big team, 5 years of upkeep on the asbestos pit - namely what all other teams have to do - live within their means.

Do we really #believe this will happen?

All I see is a lingering sense of boredom among the idiots, followed in a few years time by some other admin/insolvency event.

Whatever happens - They and their financial behaviors will never be the same again.

I doubt they are expected to repay it in 5 years.
£5 million is a manageable debt for Hearts. Especially if they have a bit of extra income from the diddies.
The problem for them is the cost of a new stand (£5m?) and the upkeep of the other three poorly built stands. There is also the likelyhood of 1st Div football for at least 1 year and putting out a team they can afford (ie. Mince) for the first time in 30 years. This will have an effect on their income.
The debt itself though is serviceable provided they change their behaviour.


Bugger, just wrote all that and realised I'm agreeing with you.

[Geo_1875]

:agree: all true.although I know quite a few that follow them and for the most part, they are decent guys, working and paying their way in society. the trouble I've got ,when we all have a few beers in us is that NONE of them regret anything that has happened. all worth it, in their opinion, and this was all said weeks ago well before any mention of a CVA settlement. for that, I hope it goes pear shaped for them

They just can't help themselves. Every one of them I know sees the club as an institution that must be saved even at a cost to the public purse. Entitlement junkies every one, even the seemingly normal ones.

[Springbank]

They just can't help themselves. Every one of them I know sees the club as an institution that must be saved even at a cost to the public purse. Entitlement junkies every one, even the seemingly normal ones.

It may be a long slow burn but that mindset will be their undoing

The spl is better without rangers

Their visiting support is not missed in the stadium or in the surrounding streets

The sport is more competitive and importantly it is finally finally clean and credible

Hearts are just a mini version and that era has passed

Banks will not support that mindset any more and the demise of rangers has been important in allowing financial and sporting institutions to see that there is no significant harm to your bank by shutting down a basket case club of whatever size

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Don't ask me to post a link as it was a hard copy but if his philosophy was introduced at Hibs and allowed to grow we'd scoosh the league every year.

I take it you forget to add a smiley at the end of the above?

[jonty]

I keep reading that they need to upgrade their stand 'very soon'. Is there a fixed timescale? Substantial upgrading will be required, no doubt, but never any confirmed dates.

Its always going to be a ****hole and it'll suit the championship/div1 to the ground. The danger is it'll need upgrading before getting back into the SPFL should they ever manage it (although Falkirk managed with 3 stands)

[jdships]

I keep reading that they need to upgrade their stand 'very soon'. Is there a fixed timescale? Substantial upgrading will be required, no doubt, but never any confirmed dates.

Its always going to be a ****hole and it'll suit the championship/div1 to the ground. The danger is it'll need upgrading before getting back into the SPFL should they ever manage it (although Falkirk managed with 3 stands)

Understand , second hand, that the safety certificate is up for renewal early in 2014
Sure someone will confirm that
Thanks

[EK_Hibs]

Considering the spawny scrounging flumps are almost at 8000 monthly Direct Debits I just don't buy the absolute rubbish that these are going to 'dry up' for whatever reason?? Fair enough if there was only 2 or 3 thousand diddies but not 8 thousand! No chance.

I'd prefer to focus on the 'frozen UBIG shares' and whether or not these can derail the CVA prospects.

[jdships]

Considering the spawny scrounging flumps are almost at 8000 monthly Direct Debits I just don't buy the absolute rubbish that these are going to 'dry up' for whatever reason?? Fair enough if there was only 2 or 3 thousand diddies but not 8 thousand! No chance.

I'd prefer to focus on the 'frozen UBIG shares' and whether or not these can derail the CVA prospects.


Surely given they will be relegated this season it surely depends greatly on results, continuing agreement with wives/ families to fork out hard earned cash , proof that the new owners can " deliver " on a sustainable basis .
I know of three Jambo's , who are not exactly poor, who have said their DD's will run until December 2014 and then they will reconsider based on " value for money "
Makes sense in the circumstances
Then again nothing is written in tablets of stone re the clubs future :greengrin

[EK_Hibs]

Don't get me wrong it's certainly possibly that maybe 1 or 2 thousand diddies will cancel after they're repeatedly pumped and relegated this season. But as someone mentioned earlier in the thread they'll have a 'feel good factor' with new owners next season.

[Keith_M]

....
The problem for them is the cost of a new stand (£5m?) and the upkeep of the other three poorly built stands.

There is also the likelyhood of 1st Div football for at least 1 year and putting out a team they can afford (ie. Mince) for the first time in 30 years. This will have an effect on their income....

If/When Heart decide to replace their crumbling Main Stand, I don't see it costing as little as 5M. IIRC, the Main Stand at ER cost more than that and it was built 13 years ago.

When you add the additional changes to the ground required by UEFA rules (which will kick in when they start building), it's going to be a bill for 10-15M.

Add that to the Loan to buy the club and it's suddenly a long way from debt free, IF they even get the CVA.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Have the share certificates been issued yet?

[Dashing Bob S]

Have the share certificates been issued yet?

For most Jambos, the birth certificates have yet to be issued, so I anticipate the share certificates taking some time.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

For most Jambos, the birth certificates have yet to be issued, so I anticipate the share certificates taking some time.

This is one of my favourite posts on all 1000+ pages of this thread - made me chuckle out loud.

Thanks

[greenpaper55]

For most Jambos, the birth certificates have yet to be issued, so I anticipate the share certificates taking some time.

:not worth How right you are , superb.

[Sergey]

There's an interesting report in today's Sunday Times entitled "Inside Story" where they focus on the collapse of Bankas Snoras and its owners Vladimir Antonov and Raimondas Baranauskas. Both are currently fighting extradition from the UK back to Lithuania where they face charges of fraud to the tune of €500m.

The interesting part is that the Lithuanian authorities froze Antonov's/Snoras assets when they bankrupted the bank - these assets still remain frozen today, some three years down the line.

The similarities between Snoras and Ukio are uncanny. Both banks owned by a Russian crook - both owned basketball clubs - both owned football clubs that entered administration - both on the run from the Lith authorities.

[bingo70]

There's an interesting report in today's Sunday Times entitled "Inside Story" where they focus on the collapse of Bankas Snoras and its owners Vladimir Antonov and Raimondas Baranauskas. Both are currently fighting extradition from the UK back to Lithuania where they face charges of fraud to the tune of €500m.

The interesting part is that the Lithuanian authorities froze Antonov's/Snoras assets when they bankrupted the bank - these assets still remain frozen today, some three years down the line.

The similarities between Snoras and Ukio are uncanny. Both banks owned by a Russian crook - both owned basketball clubs - both owned football clubs that entered administration - both on the run from the Lith authorities.

Was he able to sell Portsmouth despite the assets being frozen though?

If so maybe a precedent was set so won't be as complicated when it comes to selling hertz.

[Aldo]

There's an interesting report in today's Sunday Times entitled "Inside Story" where they focus on the collapse of Bankas Snoras and its owners Vladimir Antonov and Raimondas Baranauskas. Both are currently fighting extradition from the UK back to Lithuania where they face charges of fraud to the tune of €500m. The interesting part is that the Lithuanian authorities froze Antonov's/Snoras assets when they bankrupted the bank - these assets still remain frozen today, some three years down the line. The similarities between Snoras and Ukio are uncanny. Both banks owned by a Russian crook - both owned basketball clubs - both owned football clubs that entered administration - both on the run from the Lith authorities.

Well I hope you've been over to Broke back and posted a link cos the FOH think all is Barry and with the intervention of Fat Salmond and the gang everything will be unfrozen.

Three years... That's brilliant just brilliant. No shares no takeover (if that's right)

[Gmack7]

There's an interesting report in today's Sunday Times entitled "Inside Story" where they focus on the collapse of Bankas Snoras and its owners Vladimir Antonov and Raimondas Baranauskas. Both are currently fighting extradition from the UK back to Lithuania where they face charges of fraud to the tune of €500m.

The interesting part is that the Lithuanian authorities froze Antonov's/Snoras assets when they bankrupted the bank - these assets still remain frozen today, some three years down the line.

The similarities between Snoras and Ukio are uncanny. Both banks owned by a Russian crook - both owned basketball clubs - both owned football clubs that entered administration - both on the run from the Lith authorities.
do i detect a hint of hope?


Was he able to sell Portsmouth despite the assets being frozen though?

If so maybe a precedent was set so won't be as complicated when it comes to selling hertz.
booooooo theres always one

[Mr White]

Was he able to sell Portsmouth despite the assets being frozen though?

If so maybe a precedent was set so won't be as complicated when it comes to selling hertz.

Portsmouth started as a newco effectively did they not? English clubs don't look at that in the same way as we do apparently :greengrin

[bingo70]

booooooo theres always one

Sorry, think I'm still miserable after yesterday.

True though, don't give a monkeys how long that boys assetts are frozen for if he's allowed to sell his football club during that time and surely that's the point here?

Fingers crossed Sergey comes back shortly to put my mind at ease.


Portsmouth started as a newco effectively did they not? English clubs don't look at that in the same way as we do apparently :greengrin

That's what I was hoping to hear, thanks.

[Aldo]

Sorry, think I'm still miserable after yesterday. True though, don't give a monkeys how long that boys assetts are frozen for if he's allowed to sell his football club during that time and surely that's the point here? Fingers crossed Sergey comes back shortly to put my mind at ease.

Yip if the club can be sold without the frozen shares then they may have a chance however if they can't then big grins all round.

3 years of admin. ;-)

[Sergey]

I've just had a look at the Portsmouth time-line.

Portsmouth went into administration on 23rd November 2011 and the reformed club owned by the Pompey Supporters Trust exited administration on 19th April 2013. That's nigh-on 18 months in administration.

Trevor Birch really should be making the Fuds aware of these times. "Out of Admin by Christmas" - aye, pull another cracker.

[Jonnyboy]

For most Jambos, the birth certificates have yet to be issued, so I anticipate the share certificates taking some time.

Indeed and I'd like to see the look on their faces when they find out their sister's their mother :agree:

[Aldo]

Indeed and I'd like to see the look on their faces when they find out their sister's their mother :agree:

And in some cases even their father!!

[green glory]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: Further delay in Hearts parent company Ubig insolvency case being heard in Lithuanain court. Now in for a 10.00 start tomorrow morning.

[Leithenhibby]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: Further delay in Hearts parent company Ubig insolvency case being heard in Lithuanain court. Now in for a 10.00 start tomorrow morning.


Pleasing... Keep them sweating :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Was he able to sell Portsmouth despite the assets being frozen though?

If so maybe a precedent was set so won't be as complicated when it comes to selling hertz.

Portsmouth are a newco. The new club was allowed to inherit the old club's league position because they satisfied the creditors (effectively as per a CVA) of the old club.

It's possible Doncaster and Regan might try and pull the same stunt with the Yams if they agree a CVA but can't get the shares. I think the wailing of the Hun hordes would stop any move like that in its tracks though.

[greenginger]

Scanning back on a few articles on the Yams demise and this caught my attention.


http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/34819/romanov-may-become-suspect-in-ukio-bankas-case-201334819/

Second last para.

" ......based on information provided by the Central Bank about suspicious transactions concluded in 2005 through to 2012. "

Now are these not the dates when Vlad took over at the PBS to when funding ceased ?

[Leithenhibby]

Scanning back on a few articles on the Yams demise and this caught my attention.


http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/34819/romanov-may-become-suspect-in-ukio-bankas-case-201334819/

Second last para.

" ......based on information provided by the Central Bank about suspicious transactions concluded in 2005 through to 2012. "

Now are these not the dates when Vlad took over at the PBS to when funding ceased ?


2+2 :pray:

[IWasThere2016]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24704436

:cb

[Corstorphine Hibby]

I've just had a look at the Portsmouth time-line.

Portsmouth went into administration on 23rd November 2011 and the reformed club owned by the Pompey Supporters Trust exited administration on 19th April 2013. That's nigh-on 18 months in administration.

Trevor Birch really should be making the Fuds aware of these times. "Out of Admin by Christmas" - aye, pull another cracker.


Any idea how much the administrators fees were in the Pompey case Sergey ?

[Sergey]

Any idea how much the administrators fees were in the Pompey case Sergey ?

According to this report it was £2.2m

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2251286/portsmouth-administrators-rack-up-gbp22m-in-fees

Edit: Having read the report, there is still another couple of months to add to the £2.2m as the deal wasn't concluded until April of this year - the amount quoted is up to January

[the_ginger_hibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24704436

:cb

I like this bit


BDO was able to begin the process of putting together a company voluntary arrangement offer to creditors last Tuesday.
That came after administrators of Ukio Bankas, which controls about 30% of the club's shares, gave their approval for the process to begin.


Pretty much sums up last week’s backslapping yam-fest as much ado about nothing.

Event – BDO given permission to look at possible CVA process.
Allisbarry – Hearts saved. CVA agreed. Big Team. 5 -1.

[PatHead]

Foundation of Hearts chairman Ian Murray MP is hopeful a "massive" week for the embattled Tynecastle club will begin today with parent company Ubig finally being declared bankrupt, a pivotal step as they work towards a successful takeover of the club presently in administration.
Full story: The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ian-murray-eager-to-see-ubig-bankruptcy-confirmed-1-3160672) - Unlucky Mr Murray week not starting quite as well as you hoped. :greengrin

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Foundation of Hearts chairman Ian Murray MP is hopeful a "massive" week for the embattled Tynecastle club will begin today with parent company Ubig finally being declared bankrupt, a pivotal step as they work towards a successful takeover of the club presently in administration.
Full story: The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ian-murray-eager-to-see-ubig-bankruptcy-confirmed-1-3160672) - Unlucky Mr Murray week not starting quite as well as you hoped. :greengrin

Aye but he goes on to say that this time next week they'll have a CVA and be in the semi final of the cup

#allisbarry

[Dashing Bob S]

Indeed and I'd like to see the look on their faces when they find out their sister's their mother :agree:

Yes, and trying to agree a CVA will be a bit like trying to sort out adoption papers for that crowd of squabbling mutants.

[Col2]

I dont understand why they are pinning everything on tomorrow decision? What exactly do they expect tomorrow other than best case for then UBIG have a liquidator appointed.

If the shares are frozen and UBIG as a whole are under proceeds of crime act constraints then the liquidator will have conditions to work within. Is it not reasonable to assume this info wont be available until weeks if not months down the line?

[hibees 7062]

To build yourself up to a decision being made, and then it is postponed, is frustrating. And I am sure it is worse for the fans, who are desperate for information. The fear is that it drags on any longer than this week.”

Is he not a fan ? :jamboclow

[Geo_1875]

To build yourself up to a decision being made, and then it is postponed, is frustrating. And I am sure it is worse for the fans, who are desperate for information. The fear is that it drags on any longer than this week.”

Is he not a fan ? :jamboclow

He's more than a fan. He's a fanny.

[#FromTheCapital]

I dont understand why they are pinning everything on tomorrow decision? What exactly do they expect tomorrow other than best case for then UBIG have a liquidator appointed.

If the shares are frozen and UBIG as a whole are under proceeds of crime act constraints then the liquidator will have conditions to work within. Is it not reasonable to assume this info wont be available until weeks if not months down the line?

I suppose a good outcome for them would be if UBIG's admin turned out to be the same as UKIO's? Not sure if that's possible though and it wouldn't change anything regarding the frozen shares.

[greenginger]

http://www.lrytas.lt/verslas/rinkos-pulsas/bosnijoje-ir-hercegovinoje-nacionalizuotas-ukio-banko-dvynys.htm


Article in today's Lith. press about Vlad's money laundering set-up using his Bosnian Bank and Ukio Bankas. ( sorry about the Google translate )

One of the " customers " was Osama Bin Laden, the Heart and Soul of Edinburgh F C right enough !

Footnote. I should have added that the Bosnian Bank was set up by UBIG. That might be something for the attention of the Administrator before he gets round to the shares of a silly wee football club in Edinburgh.

[lapsedhibee]

http://www.lrytas.lt/verslas/rinkos-pulsas/bosnijoje-ir-hercegovinoje-nacionalizuotas-ukio-banko-dvynys.htm


Article in today's Lith. press about Vlad's money laundering set-up using his Bosnian Bank and Ukio Bankas. ( sorry about the Google translate )

One of the " customers " was Osama Bin Laden, the Heart and Soul of Edinburgh F C right enough !

It would be too harsh to sing songs/chant chants about The Famous which included references to terrorism as well as kiddiefiddling and poppythieving.

[Springbank]

Where hmfcia and morality are concerned, we should not be surprised if/when jambos find a warped justification that allows them to continue saying "it was all worth it"

They are worthless

[brog]

In responding to another thread I revisited the list of shame, aka Yams creditors. I noticed several football agents ( owed tens of thousands ). A fairly cursory check revealed Yams are due money to agents representing current first team players; Wilson, Tapping, McHattie, Carrick & Nicholson as well as ex player Gorgeous Kevin Kyle! Once again we have the skewed morality, these agents almost certainly paricipated in signing talks with Yams for these players. They haven't been paid but these players can represent Yams! Worse is the £12,000 due to Stenhousemuir. As the bloodied turd strip wearers ( ack to DBS ) haven't played each other for 13 years I assume this debt relates to a component of Templeton's transfer fee, possibly due after x number of appearances. So while Templeton was scoring against us & bringing in about £700,000, Yams hadnt paid Stenny £12k. Now I have a vague memory that Yams U-19s may have used Stenny as a base. Yams do have previous with Arbroath & Andy Webster however so I prefer my original scenario!
The team with no shame!

[dangermouse]

Here's hoping the judge is too busy again today to bother about this (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ubig-hearing-hit-by-latest-court-delay-1-3162738)

[greenginger]

I would guess the £ 12,000 due to Stenny would be a sell on % after the Yams sold the player to Sevco F C.

Heart and Soul F C shafting small, part-time club. Is'nt Stenny where Ogilvie hangs out now so he can keep his SFA blazer ?

[Keith_M]

Here's hoping the judge is too busy again today to bother about this (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ubig-hearing-hit-by-latest-court-delay-1-3162738)


Any news if this is actually going ahead today?

[Dashing Bob S]

Any news if this is actually going ahead today?

I doubt anything will happen today, or tomorrow, other than a continuation of the slow descent into oblivion.

[Leithenhibby]

I doubt anything will happen today, or tomorrow, other than a continuation of the slow descent into oblivion.



I'm right in saying that the Lithuanian courts are shut until after Christmas, no!....:fibber:

They will be sweating buckets, I'm sure of that........

[The Falcon]

It would be too harsh to sing songs/chant chants about The Infamous which included references to terrorism as well as kiddiefiddling and poppythieving.

:wink:

[Onceinawhile]

I can only assume the appointment has been made. We've heard every time its been postponed, yet we haven't heard Anything today. In addition I'm sure it was said that once an appointment was made we wouldn't hear for 30 days, so It looks like we might hear something in a month or so.

[green glory]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: Further delay in Hearts parent company Ubig insolvency case being heard in Lithuanain court. Now in for a 10.00 start tomorrow [Tuesday] morning.

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BBC Scotland has learned that UAB Insolvensa have been appointed as bankruptcy administrators for Hearts parent company UBIG.#bbcsportscot

If Ukio Bankas's admin is Valnetas UAB, then this could be bad news for the maroon buffoons I would have thought.

More:

@BBCBMcLauchlin: A final decision on the appeals over the liquidation of UBIG has yet to be made public by the courts in Lithuania.#BBCSPORTSCOT

[Wee Scottie Dug]

@BBCBMcLauchlin: BBC Scotland has learned that UAB Insolvensa have been appointed as bankruptcy administrators for Hearts parent company UBIG.#bbcsportscot

Cant be bothered looking back through the pages of this thead but was that not the administrator appointed months ago when it first came to light?

Certainly remember chuckling at the 'imaginative' name at the time!!

[brog]

I would guess the £ 12,000 due to Stenny would be a sell on % after the Yams sold the player to Sevco F C.

Heart and Soul F C shafting small, part-time club. Is'nt Stenny where Ogilvie hangs out now so he can keep his SFA blazer ?


Makes sense though is a very small % if thats case. Templeton's fee was reported as £700,000 so the £12k due would be less than 2%. The only certainty is the Yams cheated again.

[itslegaltender]

A hostile receiver! great news! Jambogeddon back on.

[CropleyWasGod]

Makes sense though is a very small % if thats case. Templeton's fee was reported as £700,000 so the £12k due would be less than 2%. The only certainty is the Yams cheated again.

Maybe they paid some, and that's all that's unpaid. Or maybe it was a flat sum agreed?

It's a football debt, though, so Stenny have a good chance of getting it back.

[s.a.m]

Cant be bothered looking back through the pages of this thead but was that not the administrator appointed months ago when it first came to light?

Certainly remember chuckling at the 'imaginative' name at the time!!

Looks like it:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/234135-hearts-majority-shareholder-ubig-enters-bankruptcy-in-lithuania/

[EK_Hibs]

So what does this mean in terms of the frozen shares now?
Are they now unfrozen? Anyone know?

[monktonharp]

So what does this mean in terms of the frozen shares now?
Are they now unfrozen? Anyone know?nope. I know virtually nowt about how this works, but they wont reveal the new admins(for ubig) for 30 days, sure I read that somewhere and our better informed chaps confirmed? also, is there not also a "cooling off" period with respect to a cva?

[EK_Hibs]

nope. I know virtually nowt about how this works, but they wont reveal the new admins(for ubig) for 30 days, sure I read that somewhere and our better informed chaps confirmed? also, is there not also a "cooling off" period with respect to a cva?

BBC have already claimed today the UBIG Administrators are UAB Insolvensa....as initially intended in July.

[monktonharp]

BBC have already claimed today the UBIG Administrators are UAB Insolvensa....as initially intended in July.never trust the bbc as being gospel:wink: 30 day thing does apply though. possibly a period that is reqd, before they can defrost? cooling off? stop sweating before the storm arrives?:greengrin

[greenginger]

I think there is 30 days to appeal the appointment, so 30 days before the admin. is definitely known.

[brog]

Maybe they paid some, and that's all that's unpaid. Or maybe it was a flat sum agreed?

It's a football debt, though, so Stenny have a good chance of getting it back.

Yep, I had similar thoughts. Will agents count as a football debt? If yes could HW uni also claim as a footy debt? Update, I tried a quick reconciliation & it looks like agents are in there but HW are not.

[Ross4356]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 6m
Thursday 31st Oct is when Hearts should find out future of parent company UBIG. Bankruptcy administrator has been appointed#bbcsportscot

[s.a.m]

I think there is 30 days to appeal the appointment, so 30 days before the admin. is definitely known.

Haven't they already appealed it?

[#FromTheCapital]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 6m
Thursday 31st Oct is when Hearts should find out future of parent company UBIG. Bankruptcy administrator has been appointed#bbcsportscot

They don't have a future. Wonder what he's referring to here?

[Gus Fring]

Shares are still frozen, appointing an administrator doesn't change that as far as I know? My understanding is the administrator will be there to figure out what's happened at UBIG and how much it's all worth etc but that until such times as the lith authorities are satisfied nothing dodgy has been happening then nothing will be getting sold on or liquidated.

It's entirely possible, theoretically, that the Admin gets in and discovers UBIG have been up to all sort of illegal shenanigans and that Hearts played a vital part in all of this. Or it could be that nothing untoward happened at all and Hearts shares will be given to BDO in exchange for a bag of jelly babies and half a roll of sellotape. We all know which is the most likely outcome.

[Bostonhibby]

Yep, I had similar thoughts. Will agents count as a football debt? If yes could HW uni also claim as a footy debt? Update, I tried a quick reconciliation & it looks like agents are in there but HW are not.

Pity, would be a real difficult one for HWU if they actually had to go to the trouble of finally doing something about collecting money from the yam.

[greenginger]

Shares are still frozen, appointing an administrator doesn't change that as far as I know? My understanding is the administrator will be there to figure out what's happened at UBIG and how much it's all worth etc but that until such times as the lith authorities are satisfied nothing dodgy has been happening then nothing will be getting sold on or liquidated.

It's entirely possible, theoretically, that the Admin gets in and discovers UBIG have been up to all sort of illegal shenanigans and that Hearts played a vital part in all of this. Or it could be that nothing untoward happened at all and Hearts shares will be given to BDO in exchange for a bag of jelly babies and half a roll of sellotape. We all know which is the most likely outcome.


....and discovers UBIG have been up to all shorts of illegal shenanigans ! I think that's a certainty. :greengrin


Have a read at what UBIG were up to in Bosnia.

http://www.lrytas.lt/verslas/rinkos-pulsas/bosnijoje-ir-hercegovinoje-nacionalizuotas-ukio-banko-dvynys.htm


Money laundering on an industrial scale, Drug money, terrorists etc, bribing whole governments etc.

[PapillonVert]

It's entirely possible, theoretically, that the Admin gets in and discovers UBIG have been up to all sort of illegal shenanigans and that Hearts played a vital part in all of this. Or it could be that nothing untoward happened at all and Hearts shares will be given to BDO in exchange for a bag of jelly babies and half a roll of sellotape. We all know which is the most likely outcome.

Actually, Bajillions, I don't know at all which is the likely outcome. It seems to me that ProudCheatsRUs are making a stonking job of distancing themselves from all the bad stuff whilst simultaneously claiming that all the good things happened irrespective of the financial doping. And the MSM are lapping it up.

How will they prove that 'Hearts' as opposed to individuals like Romanov played a vital role?

[Leithenhibby]

Actually, Bajillions, I don't know at all which is the likely outcome. It seems to me that ProudCheatsRUs are making a stonking job of distancing themselves from all the bad stuff whilst simultaneously claiming that all the good things happened irrespective of the financial doping. And the MSM are lapping it up.

How will they prove that 'Hearts' as opposed to individuals like Romanov played a vital role?


I think it's the directors of the club that will carry the can. :wink: I'm lost to how they could pin anything on "them"..

[greenginger]

I think it's the directors of the club that will carry the can. :wink: I'm lost to how they could pin anything on "them"..


There's a thousand page thread on Kickback slagging Rangers F C ( Deceased ) for all the financial crimes that went on in Govan.

Never once do they blame directors and not the Club.

[Dashing Bob S]

Actually, Bajillions, I don't know at all which is the likely outcome. It seems to me that ProudCheatsRUs are making a stonking job of distancing themselves from all the bad stuff whilst simultaneously claiming that all the good things happened irrespective of the financial doping. And the MSM are lapping it up.

How will they prove that 'Hearts' as opposed to individuals like Romanov played a vital role?

Well, I would suspect, that being accountants, they would look at the transfer of monies over the years between Hearts and the other companies in the UBIG group. Hearts didn't get the money to pay those players from thin air, it came from the other companies in the group (and in some cases went from Hearts to them). So where did the UBIG money that funded Hearts come from? How much did board members of the club know?

This long-running fiasco may well be about to take the very nasty turning that some were long anticipating.

Whatever happens, it won't be good for them.

[Leithenhibby]

I found this old footie mag from Sep 1986 and just wanted to share!..... :wink:

11219

[inglisavhibs]

Maybe they paid some, and that's all that's unpaid. Or maybe it was a flat sum agreed?

It's a football debt, though, so Stenny have a good chance of getting it back.

Stenny are not due any money from Hearts. They took their case to the league and were paid in full.I was at the game tonight with their board and asked the question.

[PatHead]

Stenny are not due any money from Hearts. They took their case to the league and were paid in full.I was at the game tonight with their board and asked the question.

Serious question- Who paid the bill though?

[lapsedhibee]

Serious question- Who paid the bill though?

I know STF, through an intermediary, settled some of the charity debts - could he have paid football debts as well? :dunno:

[inglisavhibs]

Serious question- Who paid the bill though?

I didn't ask but they were paid a good while ago. I think when Stenny went to the league, Hearts had a choice of paying up or the money being taken off their TV payments.

[Gus Fring]

Actually, Bajillions, I don't know at all which is the likely outcome. It seems to me that ProudCheatsRUs are making a stonking job of distancing themselves from all the bad stuff whilst simultaneously claiming that all the good things happened irrespective of the financial doping. And the MSM are lapping it up.

How will they prove that 'Hearts' as opposed to individuals like Romanov played a vital role?

Hearts also convinced us lot in the media that they weren't going in to Admin and that the share issue was genuine. Whether it was 'Hearts' or just the bad man that run them, if the company was used at any part of any nefarious activity then the lithuanian authorities will keep the shares frozen until the investigation has been completed. The best way to think about why all the assets are frozen is it's like a crime scene, nobody touches anything and nothing leaves the room until the Police have gone over it with a fine tooth comb. The assets are all potential evidence and it's very unlikely the lith authorities will be rushed because some ****my wee robbing club in Scotland is in administration and would quite like to be sold to the fans.

Hearts fans think that Vladimir Romanov is like the lith equivalent of Fred Goodwin, he done some bad stuff but he'll never face justice.

In reality he's their equivalent of Bernie Madoff.

[clerriehibs]

Hearts also convinced us lot in the media that they weren't going in to Admin and that the share issue was genuine. Whether it was 'Hearts' or just the bad man that run them, if the company was used at any part of any nefarious activity then the lithuanian authorities will keep the shares frozen until the investigation has been completed. The best way to think about why all the assets are frozen is it's like a crime scene, nobody touches anything and nothing leaves the room until the Police have gone over it with a fine tooth comb. The assets are all potential evidence and it's very unlikely the lith authorities will be rushed because some ****my wee robbing club in Scotland is in administration and would quite like to be sold to the fans.

Hearts fans think that Vladimir Romanov is like the lith equivalent of Fred Goodwin, he done some bad stuff but he'll never face justice.

In reality he's their equivalent of Bernie Madoff.

you were surely never convinced ... ?

[Weststandwanab]

you were surely never convinced ... ? Easily convinced me thinks.

[Dashing Bob S]

Just hearing that they have agreed a CVA.










Forthwith, their new designation will be: Charity Violating A-r-s-e-holes.

[Leithenhibby]

There's a thousand page thread on Kickback slagging Rangers F C ( Deceased ) for all the financial crimes that went on in Govan.

Never once do they blame directors and not the Club.

For any football fan they go hand in hand, but I'm wondering how the authorities would pin anything on "Them"

The SPFL/SFL, yes, they will have their wee rule book and I'm sure will use it when the time is right...
Newco will go ballistic if not :wink:

Still so much to be said and done......

[PatHead]

Just hearing that they have agreed a CVA.










Forthwith, their new designation will be: Charity Violating A-r-s-e-holes.

Are you serious with the CVA or is it a play on words? If so, who is the source?

[Gus Fring]

you were surely never convinced ... ?

Nope and I doubt the majority were either. Nobody wants to be held accountable for their downfall and the ones who cover hearts are on the gravy train. Ironically it's a bit like the Jimmy Saville saga, it seems a lot of people knew but everyone was too scared of what would happen. Same thing happened with Rangers.

[Dashing Bob S]

Are you serious with the CVA or is it a play on words? If so, who is the source?

Ha ha...in their dreams!

[Leithenhibby]

Are you serious with the CVA or is it a play on words? If so, who is the source?


Ha ha...in their dreams!

Quality ...... :greengrin


Nothing is happening until their season is over! :greengrin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24704436

[PatHead]

Ha ha...in their dreams!

Hook line and sinker there.......bugger

[3pm]

See Gary Naysmith is staying at East Fife til the end of the season.

Season must finish on 31/01/14.

[Aldo]

See Gary Naysmith is staying at East Fife til the end of the season. Season must finish on 31/01/14.

Ha ha. Well respected doon Mefful way is Gary.

[clerriehibs]

Nope and I doubt the majority were either. Nobody wants to be held accountable for their downfall and the ones who cover hearts are on the gravy train. Ironically it's a bit like the Jimmy Saville saga, it seems a lot of people knew but everyone was too scared of what would happen. Same thing happened with Rangers.

I can't believe there's still a yam gravy train. Time for those reporters to dig (not very deep) for the news and stop being gorgie press officers.

[Hibee87]

See Gary Naysmith is staying at East Fife til the end of the season.

Season must finish on 31/01/14.

Nonsense, CVA has been agreed and Naysmith along with Kyle, zaliouskas and rudolf skacel are riding in on a mechanical bull to lead them to saftey. Its all done deals so weve been told :na na:

[PatHead]

Hearts are having a sale on all merchandise in their store for the next 5 days. Need for money getting stronger by the day. Bet you they have spent our gate money all ready. Talk about a hand to mouth existence.

[Spike Mandela]

Thought this had been sorted??????!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24704436