2020-21 season non-Hibs games thread

[Callum_62]

United with their usual penalty.Where is var overruling that?

Shocking decision

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[Magpie]

3-2! They couldn’t, could they?

[Callum_62]

3-2


I think it's off a hand though

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[Magpie]

Where is var overruling that?

Shocking decision

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I agree, very harsh penalty.

[J-C]

Surely they can't come back and get a draw?

[Callum_62]

Weird, I'm Sure that came of Maguires hand

Some very strange decisions happening here

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[Magpie]

How is that not a corner? 😂

[The 90+2]

Course they won’t. Typical Hibs in a way

[Magpie]

Leipzig win! Misery in Germany for Ole.

Back to Thursday nights.

[Callum_62]

I didn't care who won but I was all out rooting for leipzig at the end

The Pen was a joke and I'm sure the 2nd was handball

Almost wholly glossed over by the commentary

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[Sir David Gray]

As long as PSG avoid defeat and United lose, they are out. Or maybe the PSG result doesn’t matter, not 100% on that.

Manchester Utd are out regardless of the PSG result due to the head to head results.

[Magpie]

Manchester Utd are out regardless of the PSG result due to the head to head results.

Fantastic

[Callum_62]

Psg still not back out as both teams are refusing to go back out if the 4th official isn't replaced

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[Magpie]

Man City next up on Saturday for Ole’s team, he hasn’t got a bad record against them.

[Magpie]

PSG v Istanbul will continue tomorrow from the 14th minute at 17:55 with new officials.

[CMurdoch]

PSG v Istanbul will continue tomorrow from the 14th minute at 17:55 with new officials.

A very big **** storm will be striking in the morning!

[The Harp Awakes]

Weird, I'm Sure that came of Maguires hand

Some very strange decisions happening here

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Three very bad decisions in the space of 10 minutes all in Man U's favour, which could easily have put them through.

With VAR in use I can't understand why the penalty wasn't overturned and the Pogba goal disallowed. Two clearly wrong decisions.

[Magpie]

Shocking defending again. Would never guess these are premiership players

Their captain has been relegated more times than he’s won Champions League games. Also the most relegated player in the Premier League I believe. Tough times.

[JimBHibees]

Three very bad decisions in the space of 10 minutes all in Man U's favour, which could easily have put them through.

With VAR in use I can't understand why the penalty wasn't overturned and the Pogba goal disallowed. Two clearly wrong decisions.

Incredible decisions especially the handball which miraculously a tv angle surfaced after the decision had been made showing how obvious it was. Glad they didn't get through as they didn't deserve to. Maguires interview was laughable trying as much as he could to say it was a close game insinuating that Leipzig scored with their only two attacks in the first half. Thought Leipzig were sensational in the first half and could easily have been 4 up in 30 mins. Better team won.

[Magpie]

Incredible decisions especially the handball which miraculously a tv angle surfaced after the decision had been made showing how obvious it was. Glad they didn't get through as they didn't deserve to. Maguires interview was laughable trying as much as he could to say it was a close game insinuating that Leipzig scored with their only two attacks in the first half. Thought Leipzig were sensational in the first half and could easily have been 4 up in 30 mins. Better team won.

Surely it’s only a matter of time until Ole gets the sack. I think United were 6th and reached the Last 16 of the Champions League when they sacked Mourinho. If the Champions League is the board’s main aim then sacking a man who has never failed to get out of the group stages in over 16 seasons of managing in the competition for a man who got relegated the last time he managed a premier league club probably wasn’t the right decision.

[The Harp Awakes]

Incredible decisions especially the handball which miraculously a tv angle surfaced after the decision had been made showing how obvious it was. Glad they didn't get through as they didn't deserve to. Maguires interview was laughable trying as much as he could to say it was a close game insinuating that Leipzig scored with their only two attacks in the first half. Thought Leipzig were sensational in the first half and could easily have been 4 up in 30 mins. Better team won.

Yes, Leipzig played some great stuff last night particularly going forward. A joy to watch and well deserved win.

[Andy74]

Incredible decisions especially the handball which miraculously a tv angle surfaced after the decision had been made showing how obvious it was. Glad they didn't get through as they didn't deserve to. Maguires interview was laughable trying as much as he could to say it was a close game insinuating that Leipzig scored with their only two attacks in the first half. Thought Leipzig were sensational in the first half and could easily have been 4 up in 30 mins. Better team won.

They were more clinical but the stats back him up. Leipzig had 4 shots on target and scored 3. Utd had most of the ball and 19 shots with 7 on target.

[The Harp Awakes]

They were more clinical but the stats back him up. Leipzig had 4 shots on target and scored 3. Utd had most of the ball and 19 shots with 7 on target.

That's fair enough but the stats aren't reflective of the game as a whole. A fair amount of those shots were in the last 10/15 mins when Man U were chasing the game.

[Andy74]

That's fair enough but the stats aren't reflective of the game as a whole. A fair amount of those shots were in the last 10/15 mins when Man U were chasing the game.

That’s pretty much the game as a whole then?

[Magpie]

Ole has lost 6 of his first 10 Champions League games as a manager, the first to lose six or more times in their first 10 games as manager of an English side.

[Andy74]

Sky are now putting a warning on the exchange with Ba and the officials that we may find the language offensive.

Black is the only term I heard with nothing prejudicial either side of it.

Is that really what the issue was, that he described someone as black?

[JimBHibees]

They were more clinical but the stats back him up. Leipzig had 4 shots on target and scored 3. Utd had most of the ball and 19 shots with 7 on target.

Don't think they stats were in anyway reflective of the game or the quality of the chances. Leipzig missed a glorious chance to make it 3 then a misplaced pass butchered another excellent opportunity in the first half. Can't really remember United creating a clear chance beyond a couple of shots straight at the goalie. Leipzig in second half were quite content to sit in and try and hit on the break which possibly explains the possession stats.

[Magpie]

Don't think they stats were in anyway reflective of the game or the quality of the chances. Leipzig missed a glorious chance to make it 3 then a misplaced pass butchered another excellent opportunity in the first half. Can't really remember United creating a clear chance beyond a couple of shots straight at the goalie. Leipzig in second half were quite content to sit in and try and hit on the break which possibly explains the possession stats.

Goal ruled out for offside too.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Sky are now putting a warning on the exchange with Ba and the officials that we may find the language offensive.

Black is the only term I heard with nothing prejudicial either side of it.

Is that really what the issue was, that he described someone as black?

Seems to be but there has to be more to it you’d think? Obviously context is important too. On the face of it I don’t see the issue with skin colour being used as a means of identification though.

[JimBHibees]

Goal ruled out for offside too.

:aok: Forgot about that.

[Andy74]

Goal ruled out for offside too.

Which it clearly was.

[Magpie]

Which it clearly was.

Not doubting that but he was offside after the other player hit the post, so it was another chance created.

[Sir David Gray]

Sky are now putting a warning on the exchange with Ba and the officials that we may find the language offensive.

Black is the only term I heard with nothing prejudicial either side of it.

Is that really what the issue was, that he described someone as black?

You have to think there's more to it than that. I can't imagine the game being abandoned and rescheduled with new officials unless something pretty serious has taken place.

[The Modfather]

You have to think there's more to it than that. I can't imagine the game being abandoned and rescheduled with new officials unless something pretty serious has taken place.

I hope there’s more to it than the clip that’s available. I don’t think it would be good if the first (sure there will probably be other examples) high profile time players walk off the park is over something that on the face of it seems fairly innocuous. At the moment it looks like Demba Ba has vastly overreacted from what footage is available IMO. The debate will then end up about Demba Ba rather the wider issue and players standing together.

[The Modfather]

Wonder who will be at Man U longer, Pogba or Ole 🤔

[J-C]

All the studio pundits agree that they don't know what Ole is trying to achieve at Man U, no shape or tactics and seems to be trying to fit players in to the team instead of buying players for positions. They said if you look at Liverpool, Man C or Spurs, they have a shape and tactics that all players know and understand, every player knows his role.

[J-C]

Wonder who will be at Man U longer, Pogba or Ole 🤔

He looked embarrassed when asked about Pogba, personally I'd have dropped him from the squad immediately.

[Magpie]

All the studio pundits agree that they don't know what Ole is trying to achieve at Man U, no shape or tactics and seems to be trying to fit players in to the team instead of buying players for positions. They said if you look at Liverpool, Man C or Spurs, they have a shape and tactics that all players know and understand, every player knows his role.

Maguire said in his post match interview that the players weren’t at it for the first 20 minutes... you are playing for Manchester United in their biggest game of the season, how can you not be up for it? Starting the game poorly is starting to become a common theme. If the Premier League table was based on the first half of games this season, United would be 19th.

[Scottie]

If the Premier League table was based on the first half of games this season, United would be 19th.
Interesting to know how high they would be for the 2nd half of games. Sure most games are 90 minutes long. :dunno:

[Northernhibee]

Sky are now putting a warning on the exchange with Ba and the officials that we may find the language offensive.

Black is the only term I heard with nothing prejudicial either side of it.

Is that really what the issue was, that he described someone as black?

Like with most things in life, there’s context and also a professional way to do things.

The Romanian for “black” is “negru” and if a player who is unaware of that will undoubtedly take instant offence at that.

Also in a professional capacity it’s surely more tactful to say “that guy there” or “number eighteen”. Neither are tricky, neither are any extra effort.

It’s quite easy to see why offence may be taken over that.

[J-C]

Maguire said in his post match interview that the players weren’t at it for the first 20 minutes... you are playing for Manchester United in their biggest game of the season, how can you not be up for it? Starting the game poorly is starting to become a common theme. If the Premier League table was based on the first half of games this season, United would be 19th.

Pundits seem to suggest half the players dont know what they're meant to do with shape changing all the time, seem to be going through the motions. They have a base for a very good team but gave too many big standard players, need shot of De Gea, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba ( he can't be arsed half the time). Also too many sitting on the bench or stands doing nowt

[Andy74]

Like with most things in life, there’s context and also a professional way to do things.

The Romanian for “black” is “negru” and if a player who is unaware of that will undoubtedly take instant offence at that.

Also in a professional capacity it’s surely more tactful to say “that guy there” or “number eighteen”. Neither are tricky, neither are any extra effort.

It’s quite easy to see why offence may be taken over that.

Ba is heard to say ‘black guy’ a couple of times so it does look as though it was this rather than any other way of saying black.

I’m sure there are other ways of describing someone but describing them as black isn’t racist or wrong.

I read an article recently written by a black woman on this subject because the language is becoming tricky to navigate. She used the example of being described as the woman with white top or with the dark hair when clearly saying the black woman would have been quicker and easier all round. She said she absolutely wants to be described as a black woman.

Remains to be seen if there is more to this. Sky warning about offensive language when only the word black appeared to be at issue in their clip adds to the impression it is wrong.

There’s a very real danger the real issues get totally lost in focusing on these types of things.

[Smartie]

Ba is heard to say ‘black guy’ a couple of times so it does look as though it was this rather than any other way of saying black.

I’m sure there are other ways of describing someone but describing them as black isn’t racist or wrong.

I read an article recently written by a black woman on this subject because the language is becoming tricky to navigate. She used the example of being described as the woman with white top or with the dark hair when clearly saying the black woman would have been quicker and easier all round. She said she absolutely wants to be described as a black woman.

Remains to be seen if there is more to this. Sky warning about offensive language when only the word black appeared to be at issue in their clip adds to the impression it is wrong.

There’s a very real danger the real issues get totally lost in focusing on these types of things.

Obviously we need to know a lot more, but I'm also a bit uncomfortable about the idea of a public lynching based on nuances of language used by someone not speaking in their native tongue.

[Sir David Gray]

Ba is heard to say ‘black guy’ a couple of times so it does look as though it was this rather than any other way of saying black.

I’m sure there are other ways of describing someone but describing them as black isn’t racist or wrong.

I read an article recently written by a black woman on this subject because the language is becoming tricky to navigate. She used the example of being described as the woman with white top or with the dark hair when clearly saying the black woman would have been quicker and easier all round. She said she absolutely wants to be described as a black woman.

Remains to be seen if there is more to this. Sky warning about offensive language when only the word black appeared to be at issue in their clip adds to the impression it is wrong.

There’s a very real danger the real issues get totally lost in focusing on these types of things.

Agreed.

If (and I stress the word if very strongly) this is genuinely all that happened then to me it risks overshadowing genuine cases of racism and it's not a great look for the game that we have seen one of the first instances of a high profile match being abandoned (which I'm actually not against by the way if a genuinely racist incident has taken place) over something so trivial.

[Northernhibee]

Obviously we need to know a lot more, but I'm also a bit uncomfortable about the idea of a public lynching based on nuances of language used by someone not speaking in their native tongue.

I find myself uncomfortable about taking a “is that it” attitude towards these things (and I’m in no way saying anyone on here has taken a blasé attitude towards this, I’ve seen it in the wider world).

If you’re not black, you’ll never truly get the context of things like this. In Europe you’re far more likely to be in the minority if you’re not white in most situations so you’ll unlikely have had to grow up thinking about your skin colour or having had references made to this. What’s likely a nothing or trivial incident to one person may not be to another.

If Demba Ba had taken offence to this, he’s entirely entitled to take offense over it. He’s also perfectly entitled to be taken seriously about it too.

It’s also worth remembering that good people can unwillingly do bad things so the linesman may well have had absolutely no racist intention but still caused offence.

Hopefully just a wee bit of friendly education required.

[calumhibee1]

Like with most things in life, there’s context and also a professional way to do things.

The Romanian for “black” is “negru” and if a player who is unaware of that will undoubtedly take instant offence at that.

Also in a professional capacity it’s surely more tactful to say “that guy there” or “number eighteen”. Neither are tricky, neither are any extra effort.

It’s quite easy to see why offence may be taken over that.

I’ve not seen the incident, but what if the player was standing facing the ref and the fourth official so they couldn’t see his number? What if he’s in a group of players of which he’s the only black player?

In either situation, surely it would be easier to point out that he’s the black player rather than number 18 but you can’t see the number or pointing at a group of people and saying “it was that guy?”

[MWHIBBIES]

Why not just point at Pierro Webo? Calling him "the black guy" is unacceptable and the reactions were justified imo.

[calumhibee1]

Why not just point at Pierro Webo? Calling him "the black guy" is unacceptable and the reactions were justified imo.

Was he standing on his own? Or was he standing beside other players? Would it have been obvious he was the guy if you just pointed at him?

[Andy74]

Why not just point at Pierro Webo? Calling him "the black guy" is unacceptable and the reactions were justified imo.

I’ve never been aware that describing anyone as black is unacceptable.

[calumhibee1]

If we’re of the opinion that it was wrong to have pointed the player out as “the black man”, I presume we’d also be of the opinion it would be wrong to point someone out as a man if he was the only man in a group of women? They may not identify as a man and it could in theory be deemed insulting.

How far do we take this?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Players have numbers on the back of the shirts.

[Keith_M]

What would have happened if the linesman had identified one of the white players as 'the ginger haired guy'?

:dunno:

[Andy74]

Players have numbers on the back of the shirts.

It was a member of the coaching staff on the bench.

In any case, yes, there are a few ways to describe people or point them out but is saying the black guy wrong?

[Smartie]

I find myself uncomfortable about taking a “is that it” attitude towards these things (and I’m in no way saying anyone on here has taken a blasé attitude towards this, I’ve seen it in the wider world).

If you’re not black, you’ll never truly get the context of things like this. In Europe you’re far more likely to be in the minority if you’re not white in most situations so you’ll unlikely have had to grow up thinking about your skin colour or having had references made to this. What’s likely a nothing or trivial incident to one person may not be to another.

If Demba Ba had taken offence to this, he’s entirely entitled to take offense over it. He’s also perfectly entitled to be taken seriously about it too.

It’s also worth remembering that good people can unwillingly do bad things so the linesman may well have had absolutely no racist intention but still caused offence.

Hopefully just a wee bit of friendly education required.

Agree with all of this FWIW, particularly the last line.

[Andy74]

Agree with all of this FWIW, particularly the last line.

If education is needed then let’s have the full list of what’s right or wrong.

John Barnes has been out today actively saying this is nonsense and it is right to describe black people as black.

I referenced an article earlier by a black woman saying the same thing.

So, if we need educated then let’s make sure we all understand what we are educating each other about.

[Keith_M]

The walk-off occurred after Basaksehir’s Cameroonian assistant coach Pierre Webo was shown a red card in the 16th minute for protesting against a refereeing decision. That led to the Basaksehir substitute Demba Ba confronting Coltescu over what the official said as he called on the referee, Ovidiu Hategan, to dismiss Webo, which Reuters reported as being: “The black one over there. Go and check who he is. The black one over there, it’s not possible to act like that.”

In response, a clearly incensed Ba could be seen in video footage saying to Coltescu: “You never say ‘this white guy’, you say: ‘These guys’. So, listen to me, why when you mention a black guy do you have to say ‘this black guy’?”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/08/psg-v-istanbul-basaksehir-suspended-after-fourth-official-accused-of-racism

[MWHIBBIES]

I’ve never been aware that describing anyone as black is unacceptable.

Referring to someone as the black guy in a professional environment has always been unacceptable imo. Not even necessarily racist but definitely derogatory and rude.

[The 90+2]

What would have happened if the linesman had identified one of the white players as 'the ginger haired guy'?

:dunno:

Nothing. Slagging gingers is the only acceptable instance of singling someone out for a colour or race. Get with the plan.

[Newry Hibs]

If education is needed then let’s have the full list of what’s right or wrong.

John Barnes has been out today actively saying this is nonsense and it is right to describe black people as black.

I referenced an article earlier by a black woman saying the same thing.

So, if we need educated then let’s make sure we all understand what we are educating each other about.
'What else could he say?' - Barnes backs official accused of racism (football365.com) (https://www.football365.com/news/john-barnes-backs-sebastian-coltescu-demba-ba-racism-pierre-webo)

[superfurryhibby]

On the face of it this kind of story does nothing but fuel the ire of those who feel political correctness has gone haywire.

The fourth official could have said number 6 or whatever the guy’s number was, instead of referencing his skin colour? However, it isn’t racist to refer to someone who is black as being black. Just as it isn’t racist to say the Asian guy or whatever.

This hasn’t really helped the anti racism case one bit, most people are just thinking wtf.

[Keith_M]

Barnes then claimed the official would’ve acted the same if the coach had been white in a similar situation.

The former Liverpool man said: “[Demba] Ba said if he was white u wouldnt say white guy… but if there were 5 black coaches and 1 white coach .. he would have said ‘the white one’… what else could or should he say?”

Barnes added: “And even if he said negro*… if thats the romanian word for black… whats wrong with that?”

https://www.football365.com/news/john-barnes-backs-sebastian-coltescu-demba-ba-racism-pierre-webo



* It's actually 'negru', but obviously sounds very similar

[superfurryhibby]

Barnes then claimed the official would’ve acted the same if the coach had been white in a similar situation.

The former Liverpool man said: “[Demba] Ba said if he was white u wouldnt say white guy… but if there were 5 black coaches and 1 white coach .. he would have said ‘the white one’… what else could or should he say?”

Barnes added: “And even if he said negro*… if thats the romanian word for black… whats wrong with that?”

[URL]https://www.football365.com/news/john-barnes-backs-sebastian-coltescu-demba-ba-racism-pierre-webo[/URl


* It's actually 'negru', but obviously sounds very similar

I suspect that might have been a factor.

[calumhibee1]

Has it been confirmed if he said black/negro/negru?

Demba Ba keeps referencing the word black when he was talking about it?

[Magpie]

Interesting to know how high they would be for the 2nd half of games. Sure most games are 90 minutes long. :dunno:

Not sure how that table would look. I was just pointing out that United have been terrible in the first half of games this season which effectively cost them last night too.

[hibsbollah]

Referring to someone as the black guy in a professional environment has always been unacceptable imo. Not even necessarily racist but definitely derogatory and rude.

:agree: Whether or not it is racist or not, it’s just something you don’t do. I’m surprised it’s even being discussed :dunno:

When coaching kids football, I come across lots of opponent teams with black players, I would avoid saying ‘mark that black guy, he’s dangerous’ that’s what the numbers on the back of the strips are for, you say ‘watch that #11’. And everyone of the kids in the team are the same, they know not to refer to someone’s race because that’s not supposed to be their defining characteristic, we are all humans together etc etc. You can call that PC if you like, I just think it’s basic respect.


If you are discussing racial matters where race is relevant, refer to it of course, but that’s clearly different.
Not complicated.

[calumhibee1]

:agree: Whether or not it is racist or not, it’s just something you don’t do. I’m surprised it’s even being discussed :dunno:

When coaching kids football, I come across lots of opponent teams with black players, I would avoid saying ‘mark that black guy, he’s dangerous’ that’s what the numbers on the back of the strips are for, you say ‘watch that #11’. And everyone of the kids in the team are the same, they know not to refer to someone’s race because that’s not supposed to be their defining characteristic, we are all humans together etc etc. You can call that PC if you like, I just think it’s basic respect.


If you are discussing racial matters where race is relevant, refer to it of course, but that’s clearly different.
Not complicated.

In your example though you’d probably be pointing out to say a left back to mark a right winger. They’d probably have a good idea who you’re talking about without even being given a number. And they’re probably not sitting on a bench in close proximity to other folk. They’re most likely in an area of the pitch with nobody else that close to them as a formation would dictate.

In this example from what I can gather he’s sitting on a bench full of people with no visible number and probably all dressed pretty much the same. There’s not many ways to differentiate between the people on the bench because of that and from the photos he seems to be the only black guy.

Rather than the linesman go -

Linesman - “It was that guy”
Referee - “what one?”
Linesman - “that one there in the jacket”
Ref - “they’re all wearing jackets”
Linesman - points
Ref - “You’re just pointing at a group of folk”

Surely it’s easier to pick out the most obvious stand out difference between the person being pointed out and everybody else - especially when it’s not been done in an insulting way at all?

Would you be of the same opinion if someone described someone as a male/female? What if they didn’t identify as the way they were described?

[Andy74]

:agree: Whether or not it is racist or not, it’s just something you don’t do. I’m surprised it’s even being discussed :dunno:

When coaching kids football, I come across lots of opponent teams with black players, I would avoid saying ‘mark that black guy, he’s dangerous’ that’s what the numbers on the back of the strips are for, you say ‘watch that #11’. And everyone of the kids in the team are the same, they know not to refer to someone’s race because that’s not supposed to be their defining characteristic, we are all humans together etc etc. You can call that PC if you like, I just think it’s basic respect.


If you are discussing racial matters where race is relevant, refer to it of course, but that’s clearly different.
Not complicated.

It is a defining characteristic and black people, by and large are absolutely comfortable with being described as black.

In the absence of any numbers on shirts and getting a quick instruction across there’s nothing wrong with its use to factually describe someone.

You aren’t making any judgement on them or treating them any differently or trying to be derogatory in any way.

In this type of situation it is the same as the big guy, the blonde guy, the guy with the green boots, whatever.

It is being discussed because we have been encouraged to refer to black people as black and I’m sure most people would have had no huge sense that this sort of description when getting information over quickly would be an example of racism.

[JimBHibees]

:agree: Whether or not it is racist or not, it’s just something you don’t do. I’m surprised it’s even being discussed :dunno:

When coaching kids football, I come across lots of opponent teams with black players, I would avoid saying ‘mark that black guy, he’s dangerous’ that’s what the numbers on the back of the strips are for, you say ‘watch that #11’. And everyone of the kids in the team are the same, they know not to refer to someone’s race because that’s not supposed to be their defining characteristic, we are all humans together etc etc. You can call that PC if you like, I just think it’s basic respect.


If you are discussing racial matters where race is relevant, refer to it of course, but that’s clearly different.
Not complicated.

Agree with that just common decency and the right way to describe someone in that scenario imo.

[Newry Hibs]

I look forward to the police statements saying 'We're looking for an adult male, 20-30 years old, wearing a blue t-shirt and grey trousers' and not including an obvious distinguishing feature.

*I remember on the Bill they always said IC1 male etc - but not sure if that is internal use only or even if they are allowed to say it now.

[calumhibee1]

I look forward to the police statements saying 'We're looking for an adult male, 20-30 years old, wearing a blue t-shirt and grey trousers' and not including an obvious distinguishing feature.

*I remember on the Bill they always said IC1 male etc - but not sure if that is internal use only or even if they are allowed to say it now.

Remove the male part incase he identifies as a female as well.

It’s now just a person wearing a blue T-shirt and grey trousers, 20-30. Can’t tell you if it’s a man or a woman or their skin colour. Go find them though.

[MWHIBBIES]

I look forward to the police statements saying 'We're looking for an adult male, 20-30 years old, wearing a blue t-shirt and grey trousers' and not including an obvious distinguishing feature.

*I remember on the Bill they always said IC1 male etc - but not sure if that is internal use only or even if they are allowed to say it now.

What if they see two males, though?

[calumhibee1]

What if they see two males, though?

:greengrin

[Magpie]

In your example though you’d probably be pointing out to say a left back to mark a right winger. They’d probably have a good idea who you’re talking about without even being given a number. And they’re probably not sitting on a bench in close proximity to other folk. They’re most likely in an area of the pitch with nobody else that close to them as a formation would dictate.

In this example from what I can gather he’s sitting on a bench full of people with no visible number and probably all dressed pretty much the same. There’s not many ways to differentiate between the people on the bench because of that and from the photos he seems to be the only black guy.

Rather than the linesman go -

Linesman - “It was that guy”
Referee - “what one?”
Linesman - “that one there in the jacket”
Ref - “they’re all wearing jackets”
Linesman - points
Ref - “You’re just pointing at a group of folk”

Surely it’s easier to pick out the most obvious stand out difference between the person being pointed out and everybody else - especially when it’s not been done in an insulting way at all?

Would you be of the same opinion if someone described someone as a male/female? What if they didn’t identify as the way they were described?

I personally wouldn’t have any objection with someone pointing me out as the white guy if I am sat beside people who are black.

[hibsbollah]

In your example though you’d probably be pointing out to say a left back to mark a right winger. They’d probably have a good idea who you’re talking about without even being given a number. And they’re probably not sitting on a bench in close proximity to other folk. They’re most likely in an area of the pitch with nobody else that close to them as a formation would dictate.

In this example from what I can gather he’s sitting on a bench full of people with no visible number and probably all dressed pretty much the same. There’s not many ways to differentiate between the people on the bench because of that and from the photos he seems to be the only black guy.

Rather than the linesman go -

Linesman - “It was that guy”
Referee - “what one?”
Linesman - “that one there in the jacket”
Ref - “they’re all wearing jackets”
Linesman - points
Ref - “You’re just pointing at a group of folk”

Surely it’s easier to pick out the most obvious stand out difference between the person being pointed out and everybody else - especially when it’s not been done in an insulting way at all?

Would you be of the same opinion if someone described someone as a male/female? What if they didn’t identify as the way they were described?

If they couldn’t see shirt numbers or had no other defining characteristics, maybe I would say it, but it would always something I would be careful about especially in public. I can only reflect on my own experience which is 100% of my kids deliberately avoid identifying someone by their race. Perhaps a reflection of the #snowflake #PC cultural marxists gone mad Scottish education system.

[Northernhibee]

I personally wouldn’t have any objection with someone pointing me out as the white guy if I am sat beside people who are black.

Have you personally spent your life being referred to as white?

[calumhibee1]

If they couldn’t see shirt numbers or had no other defining characteristics, maybe I would say it, but it would always something I would be careful about especially in public. I can only reflect on my own experience which is 100% of my kids deliberately avoid identifying someone by their race. Perhaps a reflection of the #snowflake #PC cultural marxists gone mad Scottish education system.

I’d probably have attempted to find a different way of pointing him out if it was me purely just because it’s a bit of a minefield but I don’t think the guy has done much wrong really.

[calumhibee1]

Have you personally spent your life being referred to as white?

We have to fill in forms etc referring to our race all the time. If I lived in a majority Black Country I’d fully expect to be called the white guy if it was the easiest way of pointing me out.

Of course I wouldn’t expect to be abused for it, but I would have no issue with someone just picking me out a crowd as the white guy if it’s the easiest way of picking me out.

[SaulGoodman]

Have you personally spent your life being referred to as white?

Probably not in Edinburgh as being white isn’t a distinguishing feature. If I was in a place where the main race was predominantly black I would probably be pointed out as “the white man” if I needed identified as it becomes more of a distinguishing feature.

It’s one of those things where it’s difficult either way. It all depends on context as well of course.

[J-C]

This has all boiled out of control because he may have used the Romanian Negru meaning black, hence the possible outrage its caused.

[Smartie]

:agree: Whether or not it is racist or not, it’s just something you don’t do. I’m surprised it’s even being discussed :dunno:

When coaching kids football, I come across lots of opponent teams with black players, I would avoid saying ‘mark that black guy, he’s dangerous’ that’s what the numbers on the back of the strips are for, you say ‘watch that #11’. And everyone of the kids in the team are the same, they know not to refer to someone’s race because that’s not supposed to be their defining characteristic, we are all humans together etc etc. You can call that PC if you like, I just think it’s basic respect.


If you are discussing racial matters where race is relevant, refer to it of course, but that’s clearly different.
Not complicated.

When you say "it's just something you don't do" I think that's fair enough when we're talking about how we might communicate with each other here in the UK. It's clumsy language, it has the potential to offend (even if it doesn't necessarily offend everyone of a particular race) and we should have enough about us now to be sufficiently aware of racial sensitivities to avoid such incidents from taking place.

Do you not think there should be any leeway allowed for cultural and linguistic differences? We're talking about a Romanian official communicating with a Senegalese player in English during a game between a French and Turkish team on French soil. There is a fair bit of potential for misunderstanding there.

Whilst I wouldn't want to defend the language and exonerate the chap straight away, neither do I think he should be hung, drawn and quartered before the facts of the matter have really been established.

[Paul1642]

This is pathetic if all that has happened is the 4th official referring to a black male as being black. It is a descriptive term and an official ethnicity used in the national census. Would there be outrage if he referred to someone as Asian or Middle Eastern?

Racism has zero place in football however this is not racism.

[Northernhibee]

We have to fill in forms etc referring to our race all the time. If I lived in a majority Black Country I’d fully expect to be called the white guy if it was the easiest way of pointing me out.

Of course I wouldn’t expect to be abused for it, but I would have no issue with someone just picking me out a crowd as the white guy if it’s the easiest way of picking me out.

But therein lies the issue. We’ve not spent our lives having our skin colour being picked out at school, being referred to as “the white guy” irrelevant of the intention of it, we don’t get paid less on average for being white, we’re not seeing racist groups popping up who are anti white in this world of populist politics.

I wouldn’t be offended being referred to as “the white guy” in a group where I’m in the minority but I’ve never had to think about being white and what that means for me and my prospects or even safety. I can’t judge what’s offensive and what’s not.

As I say, good people can unintentionally do bad things but so much of this is solved by listening if offense is caused, learning and changing habits as a result.

[Magpie]

Have you personally spent your life being referred to as white?

I consider myself to be White British. I’ve been called the ‘English’ guy, is that any different to being called the ‘White’ or ‘Black’ guy?

[Peevemor]

I consider myself to be White British. I’ve been called the ‘English’ guy, is that any different to being called the ‘White’ or ‘Black’ guy?

Living and working in France, I'm often referred to as "l'anglais" - the English guy - by people who don't know me. I correct them every time by telling them that I'm not English, but apart from that it doesn't bother me at all and I find it totally normal.

[calumhibee1]

But therein lies the issue. We’ve not spent our lives having our skin colour being picked out at school, being referred to as “the white guy” irrelevant of the intention of it, we don’t get paid less on average for being white, we’re not seeing racist groups popping up who are anti white in this world of populist politics.

I wouldn’t be offended being referred to as “the white guy” in a group where I’m in the minority but I’ve never had to think about being white and what that means for me and my prospects or even safety. I can’t judge what’s offensive and what’s not.

As I say, good people can unintentionally do bad things but so much of this is solved by listening if offense is caused, learning and changing habits as a result.

But this isn’t about being paid less, job prospects or safety.

It’s literally pointing out a distinguishing feature in a non offensive way to pick someone out of a crowd.

That’s it. He wasn’t picking him out to ensure he was paid less or not given an opportunity because he’s black.

Women traditionally have issues with being paid less, less opportunities etc. Would you avoid pointing out a woman in a crowd of men as a woman, especially when it’s not related to any of the disadvantages that women have historically had? I think 99% of us would happily refer to the woman as ‘the woman over there’ or such like. Especially if she was dressed nearly identical to all the men.

I actually think folk would think you’re a bit weird if you described them as anything else.

[Magpie]

Living and working in France, I'm often referred to as "l'anglais" - the English guy by people who don't know me. I correct them every time by telling them that I'm not English, but apart from it doesn't bother me at all and I find it totally normal.

I think most people just get offended by it if they think someone is trying to take the piss out of them for being a certain nationality. If someone described me as being white then that’s fine because I am.

[Newry Hibs]

What if they see two males, though?

If it was the 70s & 80s the police probably only saw the black male. :greengrin

[Magpie]

Jorge Jesus (Benfica manager) on last night's racism incident in Paris: 'I don't know what happened, but today racism is very fashionable. Today, anything that can be said against a black person is always a sign of racism, the same thing against a white person is no longer a sign of racism."

[Sir David Gray]

Fourth official is facing the minimum of a 10 match ban if he's found guilty.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11820/12156149/sebastian-coltescu-fourth-official-in-paris-saint-germain-vs-istanbul-basaksehir-faces-10-match-ban

[Sioux]

Fourth official is facing the minimum of a 10 match ban if he's found guilty.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11820/12156149/sebastian-coltescu-fourth-official-in-paris-saint-germain-vs-istanbul-basaksehir-faces-10-match-ban

The usual Sky method. Headline suggesting guilt, and then publishing a quote that backs the headline, in this case Mourinho: "Of course he made an unacceptable mistake". Who appointed him judge and jury?

Sky is worse that any red top in this country. Hate to think how Jim Fn White reports this 'sensational news'

[ancient hibee]

But this isn’t about being paid less, job prospects or safety.

It’s literally pointing out a distinguishing feature in a non offensive way to pick someone out of a crowd.

That’s it. He wasn’t picking him out to ensure he was paid less or not given an opportunity because he’s black.

Women traditionally have issues with being paid less, less opportunities etc. Would you avoid pointing out a woman in a crowd of men as a woman, especially when it’s not related to any of the disadvantages that women have historically had? I think 99% of us would happily refer to the woman as ‘the woman over there’ or such like. Especially if she was dressed nearly identical to all the men.

I actually think folk would think you’re a bit weird if you described them as anything else.

Taking your life in your hands there.:greengrin

[Andy74]

The usual Sky method. Headline suggesting guilt, and then publishing a quote that backs the headline, in this case Mourinho: "Of course he made an unacceptable mistake". Who appointed him judge and jury?

Sky is worse that any red top in this country. Hate to think how Jim Fn White reports this 'sensational news'
I’ve found Sky recently to cover more about the various campaigns than they do about the sports themselves. Great to highlight but it is sport at the end of the day and it is now a bit saturated.

[The Pointer]

Have you personally spent your life being referred to as white?

If I lived in an African country that would be the only identifying feature.

[The Modfather]

Has it been established yet whether Pierre Weibo even identifies as black? :devil:

[Keith_M]

I fully expect the result of this to be some kind of punishment for the 4th official, as UEFA will be desperate to be seen as clamping down on racism (even in situations like this, where it appears there was no racist intent).

If they don't hand out a strong punishment, there will be moral outrage from all those that have already pre-judged the situation and from those that make a profession from such outrage.

In today's world, there are no nuances and any slight suggestion that someone committed such an offence is an immediate guilty verdict. Ironically, there are no grey areas now, just black or white.

[Newry Hibs]

Fourth official is facing the minimum of a 10 match ban if he's found guilty.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11820/12156149/sebastian-coltescu-fourth-official-in-paris-saint-germain-vs-istanbul-basaksehir-faces-10-match-ban

He will obviously be found guilty (doesn't matter if he is or not). If he was found not guilty, then can you imagine the outcry at that.

I feel sorry the guy. He's in real danger of losing his career.

[Sioux]

I’ve found Sky recently to cover more about the various campaigns than they do about the sports themselves. Great to highlight but it is sport at the end of the day and it is now a bit saturated.

Agree with that.

[Sir David Gray]

He will obviously be found guilty (doesn't matter if he is or not). If he was found not guilty, then can you imagine the outcry at that.

I feel sorry the guy. He's in real danger of losing his career.

Agreed, he'll be hung out to dry by UEFA over this. I'd be surprised if he ever officiates at the top level again.

Real shame when he appears to be guilty of nothing more than being naive with his choice of words in a foreign language.

[calumhibee1]

He will obviously be found guilty (doesn't matter if he is or not). If he was found not guilty, then can you imagine the outcry at that.

I feel sorry the guy. He's in real danger of losing his career.

Yup. And for folk who say Demba Ba is entitled to take offence because he’s black etc, he’s most likely cost this guy his career because he made a massive deal out of... well, nothing.

I bet the guy is distraught. Such a shame.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yup. And for folk who say Demba Ba is entitled to take offence because he’s black etc, he’s most likely cost this guy his career because he made a massive deal out of... well, nothing.

I bet the guy is distraught. Such a shame.

Ba was reportedly happy to go back out but his teammates refused.

His wording would get him in trouble in any professional environment. Only himself to blame.

Is he a professional referee? Probably only in danger or losing his side gig.

[calumhibee1]

Ba was reportedly happy to go back out but his teammates refused.

His wording would get him in trouble in any professional environment. Only himself to blame.

Is he a professional referee? Probably only in danger or losing his side gig.

His wording wouldn't get him in trouble in any professional environment. Some, like UEFA, who wouldn't have the balls to turn round and say the guys done nothing wrong because they don't want folk being up in arms that they didn't hang him out to dry? Maybe. Vast majority of places? Nope. I can guarantee that people in my work have been described as 'the black guy' - whether it's talking about a TV show, football match or whatever. Nobody has been in trouble though. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority, if not all work places are the same.

It doesn't matter whether it's a side gig or not. He'll have spent a long, long time doing what he does, will have put in a lot of time and effort to get to the level he has only for it to be taken away from him because we've now reached a point where we've decided that folk have the right to be offended by whatever they fancy being offended by and you can be taken to task for an absolute nothing situation purely because somebody has decided they don't like it. Even if there's actually nothing wrong with what you've done.

[Northernhibee]

But this isn’t about being paid less, job prospects or safety.

It’s literally pointing out a distinguishing feature in a non offensive way to pick someone out of a crowd.

That’s it. He wasn’t picking him out to ensure he was paid less or not given an opportunity because he’s black.

Women traditionally have issues with being paid less, less opportunities etc. Would you avoid pointing out a woman in a crowd of men as a woman, especially when it’s not related to any of the disadvantages that women have historically had? I think 99% of us would happily refer to the woman as ‘the woman over there’ or such like. Especially if she was dressed nearly identical to all the men.

I actually think folk would think you’re a bit weird if you described them as anything else.

Again, as we've likely never had to think about the colour of our skin and what this means for our lives, it's not something that I can fully understand the context of. If someone's taken offence to that then the best thing is to listen, take that seriously, learn what can be learned and move on. If I was in a crowd and was described as "the white guy" or "the guy with long hair" or whatever, I've not spent my life being turned down for job interviews because I have a white sounding name or had "**** off home you long haired *******" shouted at me from a passing car. As a result I would never consider being identified as "the white guy" or "the long haired guy" as being a negative as my skin colour has never been used in a negative fashion against me.

BTW, the above is what has happened to a good friend of mine whose parents are of Asian descent. He's also been asked in a job interview "But what if you want to leave your wife and go home" in regards to questioning his commitment. We between us will share a joke about ours skin colours when we're chatting, but wouldn't ever joke about it in front of other people as I know how much mentioning his skin colour puts him on edge every time it's brought up for obvious reasons.

Again, it comes right down to context, the weight that it carries and also who says it. Even having had some illuminating discussions about what race in the UK means for different people, as someone who's never had to think about it it's not something that could be understood. Even being called a fat ******* isn't comparible because it's something that could be changed if I put on the running shoes more often.

As I said before, it's one best to mark up as worth listening to both sides of the party, learning from it and improving in the future. Not castigating either party on this one, but similarly it shouldn't be considered as a nothing incident either.

[MWHIBBIES]

His wording wouldn't get him in trouble in any professional environment. Some, like UEFA, who wouldn't have the balls to turn round and say the guys done nothing wrong because they don't want folk being up in arms that they didn't hang him out to dry? Maybe. Vast majority of places? Nope. I can guarantee that people in my work have been described as 'the black guy' - whether it's talking about a TV show, football match or whatever. Nobody has been in trouble though. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority, if not all work places are the same.

It doesn't matter whether it's a side gig or not. He'll have spent a long, long time doing what he does, will have put in a lot of time and effort to get to the level he has only for it to be taken away from him because we've now reached a point where we've decided that folk have the right to be offended by whatever they fancy being offended by and you can be taken to task for an absolute nothing situation purely because somebody has decided they don't like it. Even if there's actually nothing wrong with what you've done.

Would you prefer to a colleague as ''that black guy''? I definitely wouldn't.

If a black person is offended by being called ''that black guy'' who am I, a white person who has never suffered any racism, to tell him otherwise?

[Northernhibee]

His wording wouldn't get him in trouble in any professional environment. Some, like UEFA, who wouldn't have the balls to turn round and say the guys done nothing wrong because they don't want folk being up in arms that they didn't hang him out to dry? Maybe. Vast majority of places? Nope. I can guarantee that people in my work have been described as 'the black guy' - whether it's talking about a TV show, football match or whatever. Nobody has been in trouble though. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority, if not all work places are the same.

It doesn't matter whether it's a side gig or not. He'll have spent a long, long time doing what he does, will have put in a lot of time and effort to get to the level he has only for it to be taken away from him because we've now reached a point where we've decided that folk have the right to be offended by whatever they fancy being offended by and you can be taken to task for an absolute nothing situation purely because somebody has decided they don't like it. Even if there's actually nothing wrong with what you've done.

People do have the right to be offended though, that's part of free speech :confused:

[calumhibee1]

Again, as we've likely never had to think about the colour of our skin and what this means for our lives, it's not something that I can fully understand the context of. If someone's taken offence to that then the best thing is to listen, take that seriously, learn what can be learned and move on. If I was in a crowd and was described as "the white guy" or "the guy with long hair" or whatever, I've not spent my life being turned down for job interviews because I have a white sounding name or had "**** off home you long haired *******" shouted at me from a passing car. As a result I would never consider being identified as "the white guy" or "the long haired guy" as being a negative as my skin colour has never been used in a negative fashion against me.

BTW, the above is what has happened to a good friend of mine whose parents are of Asian descent. He's also been asked in a job interview "But what if you want to leave your wife and go home" in regards to questioning his commitment in a job interview. We between us will share a joke about ours skin colours when we're chatting, but wouldn't ever joke about it in front of other people as I know how much mentioning his skin colour puts him on edge every time it's brought up for obvious reasons.

Again, it comes right down to context, the weight that it carries and also who says it. Even having had some illuminating discussions about what race in the UK means for different people, as someone who's never had to think about it it's not something that could be understood. Even being called a fat ******* isn't comparible because it's something that could be changed if I put on the running shoes more often.

As I said before, it's one best to mark up as worth listening to both sides of the party, learning from it and improving in the future. Not castigating either party on this one, but similarly it shouldn't be considered as a nothing incident either.

Comparing it to women is probably quite a relevant comparison - women have had to fight for all sorts over the years, much the same as minority races - equal pay, equal opportunity, the right to vote and probably a million and one other things and they still don't have a level playing field. Nobody would ever in their life worry about saying "the woman over there" etc because it's a perfectly acceptable way to describe a woman. I'm sure plenty women have been told to "women should get back in the kitchen" or what ever other fish dinosaurs spout. But it doesn't mean that calling somebody a woman is now unacceptable.

This situation really isn't any different and the reason situations like last night manage to get blown up into what they have is because people give the concept of 'it's not for me or you to decide what people should be offended by' far too much weight. Whilst there's got to be an element of that - we can all brush some things under the carpet that others maybe wouldn't - we've now got to the point where we've got to just accept that folk can now decide to be offended if you literally call them what they are in a non discriminatory/offensive way and you just have to accept it, apologise and who knows, maybe even accept that you're losing your job.

[calumhibee1]

Would you prefer to a colleague as ''that black guy''? I definitely wouldn't.

If a black person is offended by being called ''that black guy'' who am I, a white person who has never suffered any racism, to tell him otherwise?

And your last comment is exactly how nothing situations like last night are allowed to be blown up into what they have been to the point where someone is about to lose their job for calling someone exactly what they are in a non-discriminatory, non-derogatory, non-aggressive way.

It's not offensive. I couldn't care less if Demba Ba says he's offended. It's in no way, shape of form an offensive comment and people cannot just be allowed to decide that they can declare whatever they want to declare offensive and watch someone lose their job based on their decision.

[Northernhibee]

Comparing it to women is probably quite a relevant comparison - women have had to fight for all sorts over the years, much the same as minority races - equal pay, equal opportunity, the right to vote and probably a million and one other things and they still don't have a level playing field. Nobody would ever in their life worry about saying "the woman over there" etc because it's a perfectly acceptable way to describe a woman. I'm sure plenty women have been told to "women should get back in the kitchen" or what ever other fish dinosaurs spout. But it doesn't mean that calling somebody a woman is now unacceptable.

This situation really isn't any different and the reason situations like last night manage to get blown up into what they have is because people give the concept of 'it's not for me or you to decide what people should be offended by' far too much weight. Whilst there's got to be an element of that - we can all brush some things under the carpet that others maybe wouldn't - we've now got to the point where we've got to just accept that folk can now decide to be offended if you literally call them what they are in a non discriminatory/offensive way and you just have to accept it, apologise and who knows, maybe even accept that you're losing your job.

If someone was in a coffee shop and the cashier referred to the customer as "the fat guy with a big nose" when calling out their order, is that not wrong and showing a lack of tactfulness? They may indeed be the size of the house or have a big nose and the cashier may not mean it in a negative fashion, but professionalism and tactfulness dictates that you wouldn't.

Why would skin colour be any different from that?

[calumhibee1]

People do have the right to be offended though, that's part of free speech :confused:

People shouldn't have the right to be offended to the point that someone is about to lose their job based on them deciding they're going to be offended over absolutely nothing.

[calumhibee1]

If someone was in a coffee shop and the cashier referred to the customer as "the fat guy with a big nose" when calling out their order, is that not wrong and showing a lack of tactfulness? They may indeed be the size of the house or have a big nose and the cashier may not mean it in a negative fashion, but professionalism and tactfulness dictates that you wouldn't.

Why would skin colour be any different from that?

The fact you think that is comparable is laughable tbh.

[Northernhibee]

People shouldn't have the right to be offended to the point that someone is about to lose their job based on them deciding they're going to be offended over absolutely nothing.

Demba Ba being offended isn't what's causing the chap to lose his job, he has every right to be offended. He's not making the decision for the person to lose his job, that'd be the governing body deciding if the linesman has breached their code of professionalism expected for match officials.

Demba Ba has every right to be offended. That's on him, not for you to decide if someone with a different skin colour should be allowed to have an opinion or not.

[Northernhibee]

The fact you think that is comparable is laughable tbh.

Why? Your argument seems to be that it's OK for someone to refer to "the black guy" if he's the only non-white person on a subs bench, but it's not OK to call someone "the fat guy with the big nose" in another professional environment even if that was the easiest way to identify and distinguish them

[calumhibee1]

Demba Ba being offended isn't what's causing the chap to lose his job, he has every right to be offended. He's not making the decision for the person to lose his job, that'd be the governing body deciding if the linesman has breached their code of professionalism expected for match officials.

Demba Ba has every right to be offended. That's on him, not for you to decide if someone with a different skin colour should be allowed to have an opinion or not.

The reaction of Demba Ba is exactly why this guy is going to lose his job. If he didn't overreact to a factual description that was said in a non-discriminatory, non-derogatory, non-aggressive way then this guy wouldn't be getting sacked. His actions have absolutely lead to this guy getting sacked and he's left UEFA in a position where they have to sack the guy or else you'll get the same crap about how if Demba Ba says that what the official has done is wrong then it must be wrong.

[Northernhibee]

The reaction of Demba Ba is exactly why this guy is going to lose his job. If he didn't overreact to a factual description that was said in a non-discriminatory, non-derogatory, non-aggressive way then this guy wouldn't be getting sacked. His actions have absolutely lead to this guy getting sacked and he's left UEFA in a position where they have to sack the guy or else you'll get the same crap about how if Demba Ba says that what the official has done is wrong then it must be wrong.

And again what gives you the right or understanding to say if he's over-reacted or not?

And again, Demba Ba can't change his skin colour as much as someone with a big nose could change that. Why is it not comparible for someone to be described as "the guy with the big nose" in one professional environment as it is for someone to be called "the black guy" in another? Both could be the easiest way to distinguish them from a crowd, but both display an incredible lack of professionalism to use that in such a capacity.

[calumhibee1]

Why? Your argument seems to be that it's OK for someone to refer to "the black guy" if he's the only non-white person on a subs bench, but it's not OK to call someone "the fat guy with the big nose" in another professional environment even if that was the easiest way to identify and distinguish them

Because you, me and everybody else knows that anyone calling someone the fat guy with the big nose would be saying it in a derogatory manner. You, me and everybody else also know that the situation last night was absolutely not done in that manner and isn't comparable in the slightest.

[calumhibee1]

And again what gives you the right or understanding to say if he's over-reacted or not?

And again, Demba Ba can't change his skin colour as much as someone with a big nose could change that. Why is it not comparible for someone to be described as "the guy with the big nose" in one professional environment as it is for someone to be called "the black guy" in another? Both could be the easiest way to distinguish them from a crowd, but both display an incredible lack of professionalism to use that in such a capacity.

And again, the 'what gives you the right to decide if somebody can be offended' crap is exactly why situations like last night will lead to people being unfairly punished because somebody has decided to be 'offended' over a factual description of someone that was not said in a derogatory manner.

The EXACT same logic for every single aspect of Demba Ba's 'offence' can be applied to somebody being called a woman, a lady, a girl etc. The day will come soon where staff in a shop, an office, or anywhere can be sacked for saying to their colleague "Can you help the woman over there?" or something along those lines because the woman decided to take offence at being called a woman because woman have previously and still aren't treated equally. And that day will be every bit as ridiculous as last night. And attitudes like 'who are you to tell someone what they can and can't be offended about' will be the reason for it.

[Northernhibee]

Because you, me and everybody else knows that anyone calling someone the fat guy with the big nose would be saying it in a derogatory manner. You, me and everybody else also know that the situation last night was absolutely not done in that manner and isn't comparable in the slightest.

I think this is best continued on another thread (perhaps in the Holy Ground) as it's going wildly off topic but it's really no different. You're identifying an aspect of their image that makes them stand out and using that to identify them in a professional environment. The logic - quite frankly - is no different. Both are perfectly entitled to be offended by it, irregardless of whether it was meant in a derogatory manner, and both of their employers are perfectly entitled to investigate and both may choose to say "You know, our employee may need retraining" or take it further if they wish.

I'll leave it there as it's going off topic but there's really very little difference between the two comparisons.

[calumhibee1]

Demba Ba recently described people who aren't black as 'non-black'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53801271

How is that any less (or more I suppose) offensive than what was said last night? Why didn't he just call us people?

[ancient hibee]

So if it’s not ok to refer to someone as coloured(as the FA chairman did)or black as in the current furore hate speech is going to be a legal growth industry.It’s a bit ironic when you think of the abuse that referees take from crowds and players.

[calumhibee1]

So if it’s not ok to refer to someone as coloured(as the FA chairman did)or black as in the current furore hate speech is going to be a legal growth industry.It’s a bit ironic when you think of the abuse that referees take from crowds and players.

To make sure you don't offend anyone I would just avoid opening your mouth. Although the fact you haven't said anything may also be deemed offensive if they decide that it is.

It's a minefield alright.

[Iggy Pope]

Havant & Waterlooville are still 0-0 with Slough Town, 22mins in.

[hibsbollah]

Havant & Waterlooville are still 0-0 with Slough Town, 22mins in.

Hae Sergei and Iggy ever been seen in the same room together?

[hibee316]

To make sure you don't offend anyone I would just avoid opening your mouth. Although the fact you haven't said anything may also be deemed offensive if they decide that it is.

It's a minefield alright.

Hang on.

Keeping your mouth shut to not offend others would suggest you are offended by the fact other people are offended by what you might have said.

😁

[calumhibee1]

Hang on.

Keeping your mouth shut to not offend others would suggest you are offended by the fact other people are offended by what you might have said.

😁

Well I am now suitably offended.

I will be in contact with your employer at my earliest convenience. Apologies if this offends you.

[The 90+2]

Used to rep in Spain, was called Scotty. Didn’t find it offensive at all in fact in reminded me that I was from Scotland and people recognised that. If anyone ever called me white boy (which has happened in the south of Spain) I wouldn’t care less either.

My little girl has red hair, if someone ever slagged her for it I would go ape**** but it’s deemed not as harsh as calling out someone’s skin colour or race, why’s that? Anyone? My little brother used to get called a ***** for having special needs, again, not worthy of any news. Now if he was a”gay mongo” the slaggings he took and the family took might have made headlines. Thinking about it I used to get slagged to fk for attending mass and being an altar boy after football on a Sunday night, not a word of kids being slagged about being groomed by priests. Imagine it was another kid with another faith? Be all over the headlines.

[CropleyWasGod]

Demba Ba recently described people who aren't black as 'non-black'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53801271

How is that any less (or more I suppose) offensive than what was said last night? Why didn't he just call us people?

That would imply that black humans aren't people. 😉

[HibbyAndy]

Norwich 1-0 up

[Iggy Pope]

Hae Sergei and Iggy ever been seen in the same room together?

Not likely.
(Just trying to inject a wee bit of relief into the heavy manners on the thread).

[Andy74]

Used to rep in Spain, was called Scotty. Didn’t find it offensive at all in fact in reminded me that I was from Scotland and people recognised that. If anyone ever called me white boy (which has happened in the south of Spain) I wouldn’t care less either.

My little girl has red hair, if someone ever slagged her for it I would go ape**** but it’s deemed not as harsh as calling out someone’s skin colour or race, why’s that? Anyone? My little brother used to get called a ***** for having special needs, again, not worthy of any news. Now if he was a”gay mongo” the slaggings he took and the family took might have made headlines. Thinking about it I used to get slagged to fk for attending mass and being an altar boy after football on a Sunday night, not a word of kids being slagged about being groomed by priests. Imagine it was another kid with another faith? Be all over the headlines.

It’s important to remember that the guy didn’t have a go at the chap for being black. He described him as black. Very different and why this should be a non story.

Black Lives Matter becomes tricky if you can’t talk about black people.

Positive steps are being taken across a lot of industries to make sure that there is representation at management levels. How does that process go now? You need to ensure black representation on shortlists and interviews but at no point can you consider or discuss that they are in fact black?

[hibee316]

Well I am now suitably offended.

I will be in contact with your employer at my earliest convenience. Apologies if this offends you.

In all seriousness though, for me this is a genuinely good debate that is hard to properly have online as it has so many caveats.

Am I right in thinking he heard the word Negro being used?
That is a term of offense in different languages, much more so than merely the word black.

I don't think calling someone black is offensive. But what if you were describing someone who was Chinese? Is it okay to say the person with the narrow eyes or with the yellow skin?
It may be describing a physical feature but it is not seen as being acceptable.
How is this different?

[Iggy Pope]

Norwich 1-0 up

I like Norwich. Nice stadium too, great kit. Nice town to visit in fact.

[The 90+2]

It’s important to remember that the guy didn’t have a go at the chap for being black. He described him as black. Very different and why this should be a non story.

Black Lives Matter becomes tricky if you can’t talk about black people.

Positive steps are being taken across a lot of industries to make sure that there is representation at management levels. How does that process go now? You need to ensure black representation on shortlists and interviews but at no point can you consider or discuss that they are in fact black?

I’m totally in agree with you. When I was called Scotty I would have been pissed off if I was called a Scottish ****. If with black friends of African persuasion I might have been offended being called a white bas, depends if laughing or not same as I’ve made jokes towards black friends before. My best friend is a neuroscientist from Gambia nicest guy ever and he calls me whitey. It’s all in context.

[hibsbollah]

Not likely.
(Just trying to inject a wee bit of relief into the heavy manners on the thread).

Man City 0 Marseille 0.

No professionally offended, snowflakes, or self opinionated straw men builders convinced that the world has gone mad because black people are asking too much, anywhere to be seen at the Etihad. I can’t believe how often multiple pundits are saying ‘nothings at stake tonight’ when OM can get a Europa league place for 3rd place. Still a big deal for clubs like them.

Payets hair is definitely worth checking out though. An absolute monstrosity.

[The 90+2]

I’m totally in agree with you. When I was called Scotty I would have been pissed off if I was called a Scottish ****. If with black friends of African persuasion I might have been offended being called a white bas, depends if laughing or not same as I’ve made jokes towards black friends before. My best friend is a neuroscientist from Gambia nicest guy ever and he calls me whitey. It’s all in context.

And he’s been to Easter Road and loves the hibs btw. Cold as anything the three times he’s been, one Morton one Hearts and one Rangers.

[hibee316]

It’s all in context.

This.

Which is why I try not to be bothered by what I read about on the internet as giving context to a story doesn't get clicks or likes.

Just got to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

And I suppose trying to see it from other folks perspective, which is definitely not easy.

[calumhibee1]

In all seriousness though, for me this is a genuinely good debate that is hard to properly have online as it has so many caveats.

Am I right in thinking he heard the word Negro being used?
That is a term of offense in different languages, much more so than merely the word black.

I don't think calling someone black is offensive. But what if you were describing someone who was Chinese? Is it okay to say the person with the narrow eyes or with the yellow skin?
It may be describing a physical feature but it is not seen as being acceptable.
How is this different?

I believe the word used was 'negru' which means black in Romanian which is the native tongue of the officials.

Yellow isn't an ethnic group. Whilst I'm maybe not wording this perfectly, a black person is by definition 'black'. A Chinese person isn't by definition 'yellow' or 'narrow eyed', they're Chinese. Which is where the big difference comes from with regards to this and the fact that this was a factual description of the man in question last night based on the fact that he is by definition a 'black' man. It's a fact. Much like it's not offensive to call a Chinese person a Chinese person. They're an Ethnic group and a Chinese person is by definition Chinese, not just in terms of nationality but also race. The comparison with calling them yellow or narrow eyed would be much more in line with calling a black person 'coloured' 'dark' etc which would of course be ununacceptable.

I've mentioned a few times on this thread how ridiculous a scenario it would be if someone lost their job and was publicly held up as being a bigot if they called a woman a woman and said woman decided to be offended. Women have had struggles throughout history. Being a woman has historically been a hinderance to some extent (apologies ladies :greengrin) and still is. The comparisons are very strong between women and black people when it comes to the reasoning for why people were offended about what happened last night. Yet it would quite rightly be unfathomable that somebody could be offended about being called a woman when they are indeed a woman and identify as a woman and somebody would lose their job if the person they called a woman in a non discriminatory, non-derogatory and non-aggressive manner made a big deal out of it. Yet that's exactly what seems likely to happen here.

[hibsbollah]

Just got to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.



...which is the essence of BLM and the civil rights movement historically, of course.

[The 90+2]

This.

Which is why I try not to be bothered by what I read about on the internet as giving context to a story doesn't get clicks or likes.

Just got to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

And I suppose trying to see it from other folks perspective, which is definitely not easy.

100% my motto. It’s probably why I hate hearts and huns so much 🤣

[The 90+2]

...which is the essence of BLM and the civil rights movement historically, of course.

Is there no black racists out there? All the BLM movement is doing now is growing the gap of hate imo. White straight guys feel like they are being discriminated against now. I couldn’t give two ****s either way as it’s all blown out of proportion. Is it to now show we are better than the east who actively hate the western world?

[hibsbollah]

Is there no black racists out there? All the BLM movement is doing now is growing the gap of hate imo. White straight guys feel like they are being discriminated against now. I couldn’t give two ****s either way as it’s all blown out of proportion. Is it to now show we are better than the east who actively hate the western world?

I don’t really know what you mean by this, but I’ve lost interest to be honest...it’s all been covered on previous posts and similar threads. And that’s 1-0 City.

[The 90+2]

I don’t really know what you mean by this, but I’ve lost interest to be honest...it’s all been covered on previous posts and similar threads. And that’s 1-0 City.

Decent goal by the Spaniard (is that allowed) 😄

[The 90+2]

Why on earth did Man Utd punt Lakaku? He’s amazing. Complete machine.

[hibee316]

I believe the word used was 'negru' which means black in Romanian which is the native tongue of the officials.

Yellow isn't an ethnic group. Whilst I'm maybe not wording this perfectly, a black person is by definition 'black'. A Chinese person isn't by definition 'yellow' or 'narrow eyed', they're Chinese. Which is where the big difference comes from with regards to this and the fact that this was a factual description of the man in question last night based on the fact that he is by definition a 'black' man. It's a fact. Much like it's not offensive to call a Chinese person a Chinese person. They're an Ethnic group and a Chinese person is by definition Chinese. The comparison with calling them yellow or narrow eyed would be much more in line with calling a black person 'coloured' 'dark' etc which would of course be ununacceptable.

I've mentioned a few times on this thread how ridiculous a scenario it would be if someone lost their job and was publicly held up as being a bigot if they called a woman a woman and said woman decided to be offended. Women have had struggles throughout history. Being a woman has historically been a hinderance to some extent (apologies ladies :greengrin) and still is. The comparisons are very strong between women and black people when it comes to the reasoning for why people were offended about what happened last night. Yet it would quite rightly be unfathomable that somebody could be offended about being called a woman when they are indeed a woman and identify as a woman and somebody would lose their job if the person they called a woman in a non discriminatory, non-derogatory and non-aggressive manner made a big deal out of it. Yet that's exactly what seems likely to happen here.



It's all context as has been said before.

As you have alluded to, "woman" can have numerous different connotations; depending on intonation, volume, facial expression etc...

I would not be surprised if a story emerges similar to the one you outlined. But I would definitely be shocked if it became a societal norm!

In my opinion it comes down to the word negru.
It means black in the native language of the official, but has a different meaning to others listening.

Communication and understanding is what is needed here.

[hibee316]

...I'm not even watching any footy tonight so I will now leave this thread alone!

[The 90+2]

Norwich 1-0 up

1-1. Nottingham’s a lovely place with better trams. Tidiest girls in the uk too.

[The 90+2]

...I'm not even watching any footy tonight so I will now leave this thread alone!

1-0 Bayern in Munchen in Munchen in Bayern. Love the music they play when they score. I would have it as my boxing ring walk 💚🍺

[Andy74]

1-1. Nottingham’s a lovely place with better trams. Tidiest girls in the uk too.

I hope you mean women. Girls are kids. 😉

[Magpie]

I hope you mean women. Girls are kids. 😉

Are you allowed to call them girls these days?

[hibsbollah]

Why on earth did Man Utd punt Lakaku? He’s amazing. Complete machine.


He was desperate to get out, he thought he was made a scapegoat by the English hacks and was dropped by OGS. He had a decent goal scoring record for Utd but he had a long scoring drought IIRC and the MOTD pundits went on about his deficiencies every week seemingly.

[Hiber-nation]

Is there no black racists out there? All the BLM movement is doing now is growing the gap of hate imo. White straight guys feel like they are being discriminated against now. I couldn’t give two ****s either way as it’s all blown out of proportion. Is it to now show we are better than the east who actively hate the western world?

Why not stop posting about it then?

[hibsbollah]

Some strike from Kyle Walker there. Like an Adriano hit.

[Magpie]

Should be a good end to the Inter v Shakhtar game, both teams need a win to qualify to the knockout stages.

[The Modfather]

This.

Just got to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

What if you’re a sado machinist? 😀

[hibsbollah]

Should be a good end to the Inter v Shakhtar game, both teams need a win to qualify to the knockout stages.

can all four teams from that group still qualify?

[Magpie]

can all four teams from that group still qualify?

Yep, Shakhtar would finish above gladbach on points with a win but gladbach would finish above them on head to heads if Shakhtar draw, Inter would finish above gladbach on head to heads with a win.

Shakhtar would actually top the group with a win.

[The 90+2]

I hope you mean women. Girls are kids. 😉

Oh aye **** sake the loveliest looking ladies. (Not laddies although if you’re offended maybe they have lovely laddies too)

[The 90+2]

Why not stop posting about it then?

Because it’s a massive discussion on the only forum I post in?

Why not give your opinion instead of sniping at others? Part of the wee gang start coming out though. Dave will post next 👍

[The 90+2]

He was desperate to get out, he thought he was made a scapegoat by the English hacks and was dropped by OGS. He had a decent goal scoring record for Utd but he had a long scoring drought IIRC and the MOTD pundits went on about his deficiencies every week seemingly.

Mental how Chelsea then United dropped him. Best forward in the world for me.

[Magpie]

Mental how Chelsea then United dropped him. Best forward in the world for me.

Ibrahimovic for me.

[calumhibee1]

Because it’s a massive discussion on the only forum I post in?

Why not give your opinion instead of sniping at others? Part of the wee gang start coming out though. Dave will post next 👍

:agree:

There's definitely a wee group of posters on here that just pipe up every so often to have a go at other posters for having the audacity to post.

[calumhibee1]

Ibrahimovic for me.

Both wrong. It's Lewandowski. :agree:

[Magpie]

Both wrong. It's Lewandowski. :agree:

Lewandowski was absolutely brilliant last season but Ibra is still doing bits at 39, unreal professional.

[Magpie]

Inter 0-0 Shakhtar. That’s Inter out of Europe. Conte be under pressure now?

[calumhibee1]

Lewandowski was absolutely brilliant last season but Ibra is still doing bits at 39, unreal professional.

:agree:

Great player, great career. I actually thought he was pish against Celtic at Parkhead and just thought he was finished. Done a quick search on Google and seen he'd been scoring for fun this season and quickly put that idea to bed.

[Magpie]

:agree:

Great player, great career. I actually thought he was pish against Celtic at Parkhead and just thought he was finished. Done a quick search on Google and seen he'd been scoring for fun this season and quickly put that idea to bed.

His goalscoring record every where he’s been since he was a teenager is so good, probably one of if not the greatest player to never win the Champions League.

[The 90+2]

:agree:

There's definitely a wee group of posters on here that just pipe up every so often to have a go at other posters for having the audacity to post.

It’s clockwork. Lewondowski is the right answer too. Big Rom isn’t far behind. Both machines.

[Hiber-nation]

Because it’s a massive discussion on the only forum I post in?

Why not give your opinion instead of sniping at others? Part of the wee gang start coming out though. Dave will post next 👍

Sorry, I've no idea what you're on about.

[The 90+2]

Sorry, I've no idea what you're on about.

Lies. 💚

[Keith_M]

Is there any chance this thread could go back to it's original purpose, which is discussing football matches?

Calumn has very kindly added a discussion thread on the Holy Ground for the other topic of discussion, if you feel you want to contribute.


https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?349485-Incident-in-PSG-v-Istanbul-game

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, it's Lille's turn to beat sellick tonight

[Iggy Pope]

Sorry, I've no idea what you're on about.

Don’t fret. It’s either a snide dig at me for having the temerity to know one or two folk on Hibs.net or the result of strong drink is creating paranoia. Back to the thread!

[Jim44]

so, it's Lille's turn to beat sellick tonight

I’m hoping for hard games for the ugly sisters tonight, both to be beaten, a few red cards and a sprinkling of injuries ( not too serious, of course ). Apologies to the coefficient aficionados. :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

so, it's Lille's turn to beat sellick tonight

Do Lille need to win it ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

Do Lille need to win it ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They do to guarantee finishing top, they're already through though.

[Magpie]

I see Rangers are resting a lot of their key players this evening in a game they need to match or better Benfica’s result to finish top of the group. Winning top of the group will bring in an extra £1.5m apparently, does that mean their money problems are not as tight as some people may think?

[Oscar T Grouch]

I see Rangers are resting a lot of their key players this evening in a game they need to match or better Benfica’s result to finish top of the group. Winning top of the group will bring in an extra £1.5m apparently, does that mean their money problems are not as tight as some people may think?

Their money problems are clear as day on their accounts, unfortunately they have a lot of rabid huns willing to continually pump money intae them every year!

[cabbageandribs1875]

I’m hoping for hard games for the ugly sisters tonight, both to be beaten, a few red cards and a sprinkling of injuries ( not too serious, of course ). Apologies to the coefficient aficionados. :greengrin



i'm willing to put aside the coefficients for 24 hours, i don't think both getting beat will put a huge dent in them anyway, it's possible sevco can reinstate what's lost by winning in the next round

[Betty Boop]

Rangers take the lead,

[Iggy Pope]

Rangers take the lead,

I’m really seek of them.

[Since452]

I see Rangers are resting a lot of their key players this evening in a game they need to match or better Benfica’s result to finish top of the group. Winning top of the group will bring in an extra £1.5m apparently, does that mean their money problems are not as tight as some people may think?

And still winning. Horrible to say but their squad is very strong

[Betty Boop]

I’m really seek of them.

Thought you might be :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

I’m really seek of them.

Can’t stand them as a Club , but you have to accept that For someone with no first team management experience , his record in Europe is impressive ,given they could hardly win a few games in the few years before he arrived


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iggy Pope]

Can’t stand them as a Club , but you have to accept that For someone with no first team management experience , his record in Europe is impressive ,given they could hardly win a few games in the few years before he arrived


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh you’re not wrong. It’s just ****ing horrible to endure! :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Oh you’re not wrong. It’s just ****ing horrible to endure! :greengrin

The Rangers. They are somewhere between a)overrated pish only a bawhair ahead of albion rovers talent wise who are only on a decent run because Celtic are in such a state and b) The best team in world football who would give Bayern a run for their money in the Bundesliga. I just can’t decide which.

[Iggy Pope]

The Rangers. They are somewhere between a)overrated pish only a bawhair ahead of albion rovers talent wise who are only on a decent run because Celtic are in such a state and b) The best team in world football who would give Bayern a run for their money in the Bundesliga. I just can’t decide which.

Let’s have a pre season tourney with Rangers, Celtic, Bayern and Albion Rovers, at Cliftonhill, and sort this **** out once and for all.

[Keith_M]

I see Rangers are resting a lot of their key players this evening in a game they need to match or better Benfica’s result to finish top of the group. Winning top of the group will bring in an extra £1.5m apparently, does that mean their money problems are not as tight as some people may think?



Looks like it's not made much much difference, sadly.


I'd just like to make clear that I think they're *****, just in case anybody suggests I'm 'fawning over them'.

[Billy Whizz]

Big changes in the Celtic starting 11

[The Modfather]

I know it’s sacrilege, but there’s something quite likeable about this Rangers team this season.

[Jones28]

I know it’s sacrilege, but there’s something quite likeable about this Rangers team this season.

Oh no no, 660 will be along to tell you you’re a Hun sympathiser.

[The Modfather]

Big changes in the Celtic starting 11

Selection bingo? I’ve genuinely never heard of the guy they are playing up front, Kilmala.

[easty]

Selection bingo? I’ve genuinely never heard of the guy they are playing up front, Kilmala.

They paid about £4m for him.

[Northernhibee]

Big changes in the Celtic starting 11

Just making their way through a dead rubber of a game or a Lennon strop I wonder a la starting Lewis Allan up front?

[Billy Whizz]

Just making their way through a dead rubber of a game or a Lennon strop I wonder a la starting Lewis Allan up front?

More like they know Europe has now gone, and resting some of their better players

[Sir David Gray]

I know it’s sacrilege, but there’s something quite likeable about this Rangers team this season.

Too far.

[hibbysam]

More like they know Europe has now gone, and resting some of their better players

They should have done it last week. Huge mistake by him not to, especially when they got pumped on Thursday anyway.

[Sylar]

Too far.

Likeable is maybe too far, I'd agree, but they have a lot of quality in their side. Despite many on here continuing to insist that 'they're *****'.

They'll do well to hang on to their full squad in January - I'd imagine Barisic, Tavernier, Morelos, Kent and Kamara will all be targets for transfers.

[Iggy Pope]

Leicester 2-0 up v AEK. They are a club I always seem to enjoy seeing pumped.

[cabbageandribs1875]

sellick score eek



then Lille score lol, McGregor muck-up

[h18eeynick]

Alan Stubbs - classic ! Just saying after Celtic score that the real test now is defending that lead and within about 5 seconds they equalise ! Brilliant

[Sylar]

Leicester 2-0 up v AEK. They are a club I always seem to enjoy seeing pumped.

I'm glad it's not just me. I have an irrational hatred of AEK and I've never really been sure why!

[cabbageandribs1875]

penalty sellick



McGregor grabs the ball to take it.....scores

[Sylar]

Penalty to Celtc. Soft...

[Sylar]

2-1 - great penalty from McGregor.

[Iggy Pope]

I'm glad it's not just me. I have an irrational hatred of AEK and I've never really been sure why!

Deplorable bunch.

[Cat Stanton]

I'm glad it's not just me. I have an irrational hatred of AEK and I've never really been sure why!

I have a very rational hatred of Leicester - after they sacked the man that won them the only league title they will ever win.

Plus they now have that the man with the incredible shiny teeth in charge. He gets on my tits too. I wish them nothing but ill.

[CMurdoch]

2-1 - great penalty from McGregor.

Ah well, that's Celtic got their 2 goals. 3 more for Lille now :rolleyes:.

[flash]

Penalty to Celtc. Soft...

Was a stonewall penalty.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Was a stonewall penalty.



yep, took a sore one hence off injured

[cabbageandribs1875]

FT Dundalk 2 Arsenal 4

[Wakeyhibee]

I wonder if NL's words will come back to haunt him later that "Celtic get a performance and result they deserve"

[Sylar]

yep, took a sore one hence off injured

I don't doubt it hurt. It looked a sore one.

But still a soft penalty.

[SJNB Hibby]

Is that Ewan Henderson related to Liam? Looks like he could be his brother

[Onceinawhile]

Is that Ewan Henderson related to Liam? Looks like he could be his brother

Aye.

He's his brother.

[Billy Whizz]

Is that Ewan Henderson related to Liam? Looks like he could be his brother

And like Liam was, struggling to get game time at Celtic, to kick on

[A Hi-Bee]

Is that Ewan Henderson related to Liam? Looks like he could be his brother

Younger brother and highly thought of down darkheid way.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I don't doubt it hurt. It looked a sore one.

But still a soft penalty.


he was about to shoot but had the back of his heel/leg(i think) clipped, getting studs anywhere on your body is rather sore, penalty all day long



the referee agreed with me ;) i'l review again at HT



you may be right, looks like he actually misit the ball i think

[CMurdoch]

I know it’s sacrilege, but there’s something quite likeable about this Rangers team this season.

They move the ball quickly when they have it and graft like hell when they don't.
Well coached and better than the sum of their parts.
I don't bother with their league games but their European games have been a good watch

.........but likeable? Yikes!

[A Hi-Bee]

I know it’s sacrilege, but there’s something quite likeable about this Rangers team this season.

****in likeable, I almost spat my Buckie oot, ****in likeable a bit like a rub doon wi a wire brush, just way too far for sure, never heard anything like it from a Hibs man.
:cb

[hibbysam]

he was about to shoot but had the back of his heel/leg(i think) clipped, getting studs anywhere on your body is rather sore, penalty all day long



the referee agreed with me ;) i'l review again at HT

The more I see it the boy gets his foot in front of the ball, which essentially turns it into a 50/50 tackle. No doubting it hurt, but I can’t see anywhere that he kicks Frimpongs foot.

[CMurdoch]

They paid about £4m for him.

That's a lot of money for a sexual disease

[cabbageandribs1875]

The more I see it the boy gets his foot in front of the ball, which essentially turns it into a 50/50 tackle. No doubting it hurt, but I can’t see anywhere that he kicks Frimpongs foot.


i didn't see the replay off it at the time but having saw it now at HT i agree

[cabbageandribs1875]

RZ Pellets 1 Feyenoord 0


without googling where the heck are RZ Pellets from, so many sides playing in european competitions nowadays i have to google to find out where they're from

[hibbysam]

i didn't see the replay off it at the time but having saw it now at HT i agree

Can see why it’s given in real time, I thought he’d done the old planting his foot between the ball and the attacker, but he looked like he got his foot goal side of the ball to block it.

[SJNB Hibby]

RZ Pellets 1 Feyenoord 0


without googling where the heck are RZ Pellets from, so many sides playing in european competitions nowadays i have to google to find out where they're from

I know, I couldnt figure it out, according to Wikipedia theyre more commonly known as Wolfsberger, from Austria

[Sylar]

Very impressed by David Turnbull tonight - reminds me of a young Leigh Griffiths.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I know, I couldnt figure it out, according to Wikipedia theyre more commonly known as Wolfsberger, from Austria


kool :greengrin now, having looked at the latest scores how's about this lot


Slovan Liberec
HNK Rijeka
Zorya Luhansk
Sivasspor..i THINK maybe turkish
FK Qarabag


:hmmm: i daren't look at sides from the earlier rounds that got knocked out

[Sylar]

kool :greengrin now, having looked at the latest scores how's about this lot


Slovan Liberec
HNK Rijeka
Zorya Luhansk
Sivasspor..i THINK maybe turkish
FK Qarabag


:hmmm: i daren't look at sides from the earlier rounds that got knocked out

I'll also confess I had to look up where Krosnadar were from in Chelsea's group in the CL.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'll also confess I had to look up where Krosnadar were from in Chelsea's group in the CL.



so...tell us then :greengrin

[Sylar]

so...tell us then :greengrin

I'd love to but I'm Russian out the door :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'd love to but I'm Russian out the door :greengrin



ah...i do like a cryptic clue :cb



another one is... Ludogorets Razgrad

jeezo

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Only half listening but did Stubbs just call Euan Henderson Liam Henderson?

[HoboHarry]

I'd love to but I'm Russian out the door :greengrin
Was the wife yelling hurry up, we Moscow now?

[Scott Allan Key]

Why not stop posting about it then?It's his privilege to get the last word in?

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

callum McGregor lucky that didn't sneak in

[Sylar]

Young Henderson's played really well tonight too. Very quick with the ball at his feet.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Craigen just called him Liam as well. Poor fella - European debut and they mistake him for his bro’

[CMurdoch]

Bloody hell Cellik.

[cabbageandribs1875]

twa-twa sellick

[SJNB Hibby]

And Duffy gets another assist for the opposition

[The Modfather]

Very impressed by David Turnbull tonight - reminds me of a young Leigh Griffiths.

Lots of kids and loves a McDonald’s and Irn Bru after training? 😀

[CMurdoch]

And Duffy gets another assist for the opposition

Duffy, Irish for haddy.

[Sylar]

Craigan just called him Liam again.

Shane Duffy is a total huddy! :greengrin

[Bishop Hibee]

3-2 Turnbull.

[Sylar]

Great finish from Turnbull - he deserves it too!

3-2 Celtc

[cabbageandribs1875]

3-2 sellick yikes

[SJNB Hibby]

Well, give them credit for going ahead again

[BILLYHIBS]

Get Turnbull signed

Petrie !

:grr:

[we are hibs]

That wee Soro guy has had a good game. Breaks the play up well and is more mobile than Brown in the same area.

[CMurdoch]

Great finish from Turnbull - he deserves it too!

3-2 Celtc

Can they hold oot?
Scotland need it for the coefficient.
Ukraine overtook us last night.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Again with the Liam - that’s poor.

[SJNB Hibby]

There's Sellick players out there that actually look interested...if only Duffy was interested in Sellick winning