The generic Hearts thread

[Jack]

Have the stopped to consider that a club tossed out of the Scottish leagues might not be welcome in another country, or allowed by UEFA/FIFA under the same rules that had them chucked out in the first place?

[Future17]

"JAMBOS FACE KO Hearts face having SFA membership REVOKED if they take SPFL to court"

That would be a shame.

Imagine being daft enough not to check that out. You'd think a top conveyancer would have known anout that.

Maybe they'll get their expulsion after all.

That rule has been mentioned a few times on this site over the last few weeks. I'd guess Budge is fully aware of it also.

[Hibeesmad]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5648689/hearts-sfa-membership-revoked-court/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1590787896

Are they the only club in the world who would pay £500,000 to challenge a relegation because they were bottom of the league? In which they would fail and end up getting further discipline.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Saughton Jambo Saughton Jambo
Posted 48 minutes ago
Monday is D-Day I believe. I wouldn’t bet my mortgage on it Jus now but it’s definitely stacked in our favour. There’s been a few developments today and ND knows that Ann will go all out if reconstruction fails. I’d like to think we are dining at the top table this season and not on the outside looking in. Lots to happen this weekend

Silly twit is going to lose his team and his house on to same day!

[SouthMoroccoStu]

The BBC's Kheridine has just tweeted this

"Monday could be the end of the road for the @JamTarts @spfl reconstruction proposals. Ahead of the Premiership meeting to discuss temporary 14-14-14, 3 top flight clubs tell me they don’t support the plans. An 11-1 Prem majority is required, which means we may not even get a vote"

I really hope there is a vote

A “dismissal due to lack of support” could see this farce prolonged even more with hearts continuing to attempt to cling on for dear life

Vote, it fails, the vote results are recorded and we all move on

Hearts then condemned to life in the championship

[brog]

I really hope there is a vote

A “dismissal due to lack of support” could see this farce prolonged even more with hearts continuing to attempt to cling on for dear life

Vote, it fails, the vote results are recorded and we all move on

Hearts then condemned to life in the championship

Im sure Doncaster is savvy enough to have that covered.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Im sure Doncaster is savvy enough to have that covered.

I’m sure your right but we seem to have been here before

Hearts with a proposal to reconstruct the league, it’s turned down due to lack of support, no vote

Yet we’re back here again

[Keith_M]

Joining the English leagues. That would be the funniest thing ever to see them trying to do that. ....


Time for my poem....

----
The Queen of Hearts
She saved Jam Tarts
And made their debt go away

But the Knave of Hearts
The Director of Hoofbaw and that
Signed loads of Duds on massive pay.

He said to Auld Budgie
From his seat on the Cludgie
"I'm restoring the Natural Order"

He doth regret those words,
The silly wee turd
Cos' now they play "south of the border"
----



* Interpret that last line however you want ;-)

[Onceinawhile]

I’ve noticed something a bit unusual with the FoH accounts submitted to companies house.

Tenon were their original accountants and when they went pop in 2013 Scot Moncrieff were appointed and produced their accounts until 2017.

Then the 2018 accounts have Scott Moncrieff’s name on the front cover and they are listed as the FoH accountants , but there is no report or signature from them. Also the spaces for the FoH directors signatures are blank. In other words they have submitted unsigned accounts.

The most recent accounts for 2019 have been signed by their directors but there is not reference to any independent accountants, so I presume they are doing their accounts themselves.

Nothing wrong with that, but when you consider the £ 100,000 s in d.ds and cow stuffing funds etc you would expect some kind of independent check.

I worked on the tax comp for foh when I was at tenon. Back then of course it was an almost entirely different entity and Anne budge had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I find it crazy that the people who set it up and worked for a few years on it have more or less been airbrushed out of history for the Anne budge show.

[dchibs]

Is the documentary they are making coming out as a box set, their is too much comedy surely for just one film.:greengrin

[Waxy]

Is the documentary they are making coming out as a box set, their is too much comedy surely for just one film.:greengrin

I’m just hoping it’s edited and narrated from an unbiased viewpoint/or biased away from them.

[proud_and_green]

In one fell swoop, here is the delusion that affects out neighbours:

"I think it's more that we realise that Ann is a person with empathy, who actually cares how her actions affect other folk. I for one was concerned that she might bow out of legal action because she was worried about the knock-on effects of such action on Scottish football. However, I can imagine that she was absolutely spitting tacks at the "I'm Alright Jack" decision made by the SPFL clubs, an unjust decision which effectively threw us to the dogs and created a threat to our existence, and so I think, despite that empathy, she decided that the gloves were off. There's only so much you can push someone around.

Even then, she's still offering testing facilities etc. to smaller clubs. That's the way she is. She has made mistakes but she's a good person, and that's one of the things that makes me so angry at the folk in the media and from other clubs who are continuing to have unwarranted pops at her. "Oh, she's just doing it for Hearts!". Nope. That may be the way that her detractors approach their lives, but it's not the way Ann does."

There is no help available for these idiots.

I suspect we might be the same if we were in their position. The thing is though we're not in their position and that is largely due to the way the two clubs are run. We are a well run club and have been for around 15 or so years. Hearts on the other hand are not and haven't been for ages and have never learned the lessons of the mistakes.

Hearts have a self assured entitlement that does not match their ability to function as a club. They refuse to do anything themselves to change the situation and certainly will not do anything the hard way. That has been the way of them since the early 80s when Mercer took over. They have lived a blinkered 'spend, spend, spend' life, and whilst other clubs did too, most of the others swallowed the bitter pill and put their houses in order. They on the other hand kept digging the hole. Any time they came into money they didn't do the sensible thing and use it to strengthen the whole club and set up structures for the future; they splaffed it on short term high cost investments - silly contracts for players etc - and consequently are now, for a second time in a very short time, having to pay the consequences.

If you think about the amount they have wasted over the last four or so years, its criminal. they have FoH money and this benefactor, how is it possible that they are in the situation they are in and Budge knows she has messed up and this is purely deflection.

What is clear though is they have still not learned the lessons of the past few years so they will i suspect continue to splaff the money up against the wall.

[calumhibee1]

I suspect we might be the same if we were in their position. The thing is though we're not in their position and that is largely due to the way the two clubs are run. We are a well run club and have been for around 15 or so years. Hearts on the other hand are not and haven't been for ages and have never learned the lessons of the mistakes.

Hearts have a self assured entitlement that does not match their ability to function as a club. They refuse to do anything themselves to change the situation and certainly will not do anything the hard way. That has been the way of them since the early 80s when Mercer took over. They have lived a blinkered 'spend, spend, spend' life, and whilst other clubs did too, most of the others swallowed the bitter pill and put their houses in order. They on the other hand kept digging the hole. Any time they came into money they didn't do the sensible thing and use it to strengthen the whole club and set up structures for the future; they splaffed it on short term high cost investments - silly contracts for players etc - and consequently are now, for a second time in a very short time, having to pay the consequences.

If you think about the amount they have wasted over the last four or so years, its criminal. they have FoH money and this benefactor, how is it possible that they are in the situation they are in and Budge knows she has messed up and this is purely deflection.

What is clear though is they have still not learned the lessons of the past few years so they will i suspect continue to splaff the money up against the wall.

:agree:

To have built a £20m+ stand and still been able to outspend us on the pitch while we have our biggest budget in history says it all about how much money they’ve actually had and wasted. Quite incredible.

[Paisley Hibby]

Have the stopped to consider that a club tossed out of the Scottish leagues might not be welcome in another country, or allowed by UEFA/FIFA under the same rules that had them chucked out in the first place?

True but, other than that, I'm sure such a famous and big - everyone says how big they are, the bigliest and most famousist club ever - would, along with their 400,000 fans, be welcomed into the richest league in the world. They might struggle to hang on to their genius of a football director though. A man who is living proof that it doesn't matter how much money you spend; how well your team performs is down to your ability as a coach and motivator. I'm sure the likes of Klopp, Guardiola and Arteta etc would just love to have his direction and guidance all to themselves.

[Since452]

I just cant think of anything to say to describe this:

23454




Either you undercover boys are doing a great job or they really are batsh*t crazy over there.

"We’re gonna be absolutely drowning in compo cash. Good wee nest egg for joining the bottom of the English leagues as the rest of Scottish football collapses and you just have Rangers and Celtic playing Each other every week. "

Hearts v Kiddiminster Harriers on a Tuesday night in January. "Tynecastle, make some noise!".

They'd be dreaming about the days they had a heated rivalry with St Mirren

[Bostonhibby]

Have the stopped to consider that a club tossed out of the Scottish leagues might not be welcome in another country, or allowed by UEFA/FIFA under the same rules that had them chucked out in the first place?Said it before, they really can't just waltz up to the English league clubs and say we're Hearts, we're famous and we've decided to honour you with our presence. They also come with a bad recent financial history.

They'd need to be voted in at around Conference North level if those clubs wanted them in. There are clubs at those levels spending to get into league two, a few are investing heavily to do it, would they want a possible threat to that, not to mention the extra cost of travelling to play in Scotland?

Would the FA automatically welcome a Scottish club into their cup competition?

There's bound to be other barriers as well.

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[Keith_M]

...

They'd need to be voted in at around Conference North level if those clubs wanted them in.....



Pardon my ignorance of the English pyramid system..... Would that be the level that any new club would normally have to apply to?

Cheers.

[Bostonhibby]

Pardon my ignorance of the English pyramid system..... Would that be the level that any new club would normally have to apply to?

Cheers.No, it's an educated guess on my part, there are lower more regionalised levels that clubs can move up from to the conference.

I've followed conference level games for a while now and there's no history of just parachuting a "big" club in anywhere. They tend to have to play their way through the leagues.

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[mal]

No, it's an educated guess on my part, there are lower more regionalised levels that clubs can move up from to the conference.Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Are any of those regions "Scotland"?

If not, I think they might have a problem...

[Bostonhibby]

Are any of those regions "Scotland"?

If not, I think they might have a problem...They're big and famous so anything is possible. There's quite a few non UEFA compliant pitches as well so they could fit right in.

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[Renfrew_Hibby]

I’m just hoping it’s edited and narrated from an unbiased viewpoint/or biased away from them.

Not a chance.
Unfortunately the program is Martin Gielsers wee pet project.

[brog]

:agree:

To have built a £20m+ stand and still been able to outspend us on the pitch while we have our biggest budget in history says it all about how much money they’ve actually had and wasted. Quite incredible.

To have built a £20m stand, add that value to your balance sheet last year & yet have total assets of £17.5m takes some doing!! :greengrin

[CentreLine]

No, it's an educated guess on my part, there are lower more regionalised levels that clubs can move up from to the conference.

I've followed conference level games for a while now and there's no history of just parachuting a "big" club in anywhere. They tend to have to play their way through the leagues.

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Just stop it!!!

Queen Ann would simply insist that they changed their rules to accommodate hahahahahahearts

[007]

Not a chance.
Unfortunately the program is Martin Gielsers wee pet project.

I hadn't realised that until someone pointed it out a few days ago. Unfortunately I think you are right, it will probably be biased in their favour focusing on the unjustice of it all and how Hearts are right and everyone else is wrong. They've probably got Tom English editing it.

[calumhibee1]

To have built a £20m stand, add that value to your balance sheet last year & yet have total assets of £17.5m takes some doing!! :greengrin

😂

[Bostonhibby]

To have built a £20m stand, add that value to your balance sheet last year & yet have total assets of £17.5m takes some doing!! :greengrinWho knows what the stand will be worth when it's finished, I can see it becoming a major tourist attraction when it gets it's World Heritage Site listing.

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[Green_one]

Are any of those regions "Scotland"?

If not, I think they might have a problem...

To be fair, if they know nothing about finance, the law and football, then lack of knowledge on geography is the least of their worries.

Mental health is probably their biggest challenge. Once all the madness dies down, the fans are going to realise they have only a hard reality. Well, most of them.

[Keith_M]

No, it's an educated guess on my part, there are lower more regionalised levels that clubs can move up from to the conference.

I've followed conference level games for a while now and there's no history of just parachuting a "big" club in anywhere. They tend to have to play their way through the leagues...

👆

[RoYO!]

It's ok as Queen Anne doesn't lower herself to read rules.

Rules? Where we're going we don't need... rules!

[007]

In one fell swoop, here is the delusion that affects out neighbours:

"I think it's more that we realise that Ann is a person with empathy, who actually cares how her actions affect other folk. I for one was concerned that she might bow out of legal action because she was worried about the knock-on effects of such action on Scottish football. However, I can imagine that she was absolutely spitting tacks at the "I'm Alright Jack" decision made by the SPFL clubs, an unjust decision which effectively threw us to the dogs and created a threat to our existence, and so I think, despite that empathy, she decided that the gloves were off. There's only so much you can push someone around.

Even then, she's still offering testing facilities etc. to smaller clubs. That's the way she is. She has made mistakes but she's a good person, and that's one of the things that makes me so angry at the folk in the media and from other clubs who are continuing to have unwarranted pops at her. "Oh, she's just doing it for Hearts!". Nope. That may be the way that her detractors approach their lives, but it's not the way Ann does."

There is no help available for these idiots.

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.

[calumhibee1]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.

5-1, FTH, Gorgie rules etc.

[Hibs4185]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.

Well said and absolutely spot on

[Lewiehas2]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.

Think I might print this out and hand it to anyone who doesn’t understand why they deserve everything they get in terms of relegation, financial trouble etc. Great post

[jacomo]

Who knows what the stand will be worth when it's finished, I can see it becoming a major tourist attraction when it gets it's World Heritage Site listing.

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More likely UNESCO will take away Edinburgh’s world heritage site status unless that munter is pulled down.

EDIT: No part of the new main stand is visible from the Old Town, or vice versa, so it’s ok.

[StevesFamau5]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.100% the best post I have seen about them. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with certain Jambo acquaintances



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[cocteautwin]

To have built a £20m stand, add that value to your balance sheet last year & yet have total assets of £17.5m takes some doing!! :greengrin

Nice point.

To have £6.3m of cash sent to your brother capitalised in the accounts without being questioned by the fans is also a major achievement.

[AltheHibby]

[QUOTE=jacomo;6188439

EDIT: No part of the new main stand is visible from the Old Town, or vice versa, so it’s ok.[/QUOTE]

So, does that mean that we can expect a 'Heritage Site View' lounge?

[jacomo]

So, does that mean that we can expect a 'Heritage Site View' lounge?


I think they should rename it the Champions Lounge. A place to relax after taking in a Championship fixture.

[Billy Whizz]

New SPFL premiership league sponsor is
“Save the Hearts”

[Heisenberg]

Another completely different roll of the dice from her today with the introduction of this mystery cash from her philanthropist pals. Sounds like it was being offered previously but only if it was guaranteed Hearts stay in the top league. Now it’s “no strings attached”.

If they are up for funding the lower leagues I’m all for it. Bin reconstruction, keep the leagues as they are and play on. Hearts can suffer their year in the championship and come back up next season.

[Aldo]

Another completely different roll of the dice from her today with the introduction of this mystery cash from her philanthropist pals. Sounds like it was being offered previously but only if it was guaranteed Hearts stay in the top league. Now it’s “no strings attached”.

If they are up for funding the lower leagues I’m all for it. Bin reconstruction, keep the leagues as they are and play on. Hearts can suffer their year in the championship and come back up next season.

I’m not fooled by it. Given her recent rambles she is definitely after something from this. She was to be seen as the person that saved Scottish Football because she’s made a right Mike Hunt of everything else.

If I was the SPFL etc I’d be very wary of this


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[jacomo]

Another completely different roll of the dice from her today with the introduction of this mystery cash from her philanthropist pals. Sounds like it was being offered previously but only if it was guaranteed Hearts stay in the top league. Now it’s “no strings attached”.

If they are up for funding the lower leagues I’m all for it. Bin reconstruction, keep the leagues as they are and play on. Hearts can suffer their year in the championship and come back up next season.


Budge: more faces than Big Ben.

I’m not sure many other chairman trust her, which is hardly surprising.

[Irish_Steve]

Excellent - the "Karma" guy has spoken - we all know how when his St. Mirren post went lol

gashauskis9
The Doyen of drivel
gashauskis9
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11,502 posts
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Posted 17 hours ago
The rags are getting desperate now with this SFA chat. As if we’d be going down that route knowing there’s a chance of complete expulsion. The contempt they have for us has no bounds. Take it as a c

[jeffers]

An absolute beauty by some muppet on Kickback:

(https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188919-ab-interview/#) (https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=188919&content_commentid=7901975)4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:
I guess the money could be offered with no strings attached but pulled if we don’t get put back in the SPL




I’m guessing his carer let him use the laptop all on his own today.

[snedzuk]

Nice point.

To have £6.3m of cash sent to your brother capitalised in the accounts without being questioned by the fans is also a major achievement.

Sportsound earlier it was mentioned the 'philanthropists' have already put in £9m - is this legal? Was there not a stooshie about Dundee accepting money a few seasons back with no clear idea where it was coming from - what if this cash is Romanian drug money or something?

[snedzuk]

An absolute beauty by some muppet on Kickback:

4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:
I guess the money could be offered with no strings attached but pulled if we don’t get put back in the SPL




I’m guessing his carer let him use the laptop all on his own today.

At least hes admitted they're already doon.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

An absolute beauty by some muppet on Kickback:

(https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188919-ab-interview/#) (https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=188919&content_commentid=7901975)4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:
I guess the money could be offered with no strings attached but pulled if we don’t get put back in the SPL



Just a tad of a contradiction without a hint of irony
Kids, don’t drink and type

[Box 17]

Sounds like Budge has gone out on a limb when put on the spot during the radio interview and said that the philanthropists donation to the lower leagues comes with 'no strings attached.'

Not sure any of her benefactors would have offered millions unless it guaranteed Hearts staying in the Premiership and she's going to end up losing what credibility she has left when her club is relegated and the millionaires renege on their donations.

[Aldo]

An absolute beauty by some muppet on Kickback:

(https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188919-ab-interview/#) (https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=188919&content_commentid=7901975)4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:
I guess the money could be offered with no strings attached but pulled if we don’t get put back in the SPL




I’m guessing his carer let him use the laptop all on his own today.

No it was his mum that typed it for him


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[Juice-Terry]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.


Thus spake the man/woman(etc.) who deserves to be the next Prime/First Minister. Glorious Glorious!

[Box 17]

There's certainly one thing that Budge has been very successful at with all this talk of reconstruction and legal action. She's managed to take the spotlight off how utterly incompetent she has been at running a football club.

[007]

100% the best post I have seen about them. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with certain Jambo acquaintances



Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

Feel free (I am feeling philanthropic). 😉

[Bostonhibby]

With all these Hearts connected benefactors queueing up to shell out millions unconditionally you'd think they'd surely chuck Hearts a few quid so they can finally finally finish off the stand and maybe get better umbrellas for the alfresco press "suite".

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[007]

An absolute beauty by some muppet on Kickback:

(https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188919-ab-interview/#) (https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=188919&content_commentid=7901975)4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:
I guess the money could be offered with no strings attached but pulled if we don’t get put back in the SPL




I’m guessing his carer let him use the laptop all on his own today.

That sounds fine to me. Put them in the SPL. Everyone else plays in the SPFL. 😀

[Ronniekirk]

I’m not fooled by it. Given her recent rambles she is definitely after something from this. She was to be seen as the person that saved Scottish Football because she’s made a right Mike Hunt of everything else.

If I was the SPFL etc I’d be very wary of this


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Exactly mate There is no such thing as a Free Lunch , as the saying goes


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[Aldo]

Exactly mate There is no such thing as a Free Lunch , as the saying goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed Ronnie.

Desperate times mean desperate measures.

I do however believe Doncaster and co have this covered!


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[Rocky]

There's certainly one thing that Budge has been very successful at with all this talk of reconstruction and legal action. She's managed to take the spotlight off how utterly incompetent she has been at running a football club.

Has she? I'd say she's highlighted it beyond all reasonable doubt.

[ballengeich]

Feel free (I am feeling philanthropic). 😉

Great - how many millions will you donate to the lower leagues?

[Hibeesforever]

There's certainly one thing that Budge has been very successful at with all this talk of reconstruction and legal action. She's managed to take the spotlight off how utterly incompetent she has been at running a football club.

This will be her legacy. The philanthropic donations has taken this story to an all new bizarre level

[CockneyRebel]

I'd like to know when she showed empathy. When 5 minutes after football was stopped she gave the players an ultimatum of 50% pay cut or you're binned? Or when she point blank refused to consider deferment yet they were actively searching for replacements saying they'd have money to spend on transfer fees?

Maybe it was when she put forward a reconstruction proposal which would save her own club but at the same time would shaft many others. Or when trying to capitlise on the growing concern of other clubs around their own survival by switching the reason for the proposed reconstruction from being all about "righting a wrong" to actually it shouldn't be looked upon as that. It should be looked upon it being about how it will save Scottish football (which it doesn't), while it is actually just saying put Hearts in the Premiership and the other leagues should sort themselves out.

The empathy could be in the offer of paying for clubs' testing (though it actually said paying for testing equipment, so could just be the £36k machine and not necessarily the ongoing costs) which is only on offer if clubs agree to their demand to put them in the Premiership. The implied reason for the offer being withdrawn if they are in the Championship is because they won't be able to afford it ("Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football"), yet at the same time they boast about increased donations and renewed benefactor support.

Perhaps the empathy is in the threats of legal action and preventing football from restarting as well as implying that clubs will go out of business as a result.

Maybe I should just accept that I'm not capable of detecting empathy.


What I don't get is this - why all this desperation? They are not getting liquidated, they have been relegated. It's not like the EPL where relegation could be fatal. They should be able to get back up at the first attempt or pretty soon after. So they were a little unlucky the way it happened and if we were in the same boat we would have had a moan and tried a trick or two but then like any other club (except them) we would have said, after a bit of a sulk,"it is what it is and we are where we are" and we would have begun making plans to win the Championship. Instead this classless institution have spent several months posturing, whining, threatening, conspiring then back to threatening and are now trying to buy their way back (although, true to form, it would not be with their own money). What a bunch of wallopers.

[Spike Mandela]

This will be her legacy. The philanthropic donations has taken this story to an all new bizarre level

Just in from work and reading all this. THIS IS A BRIBE. What has it come to that our national broadcaster is openly encouraging bribery and coersion?

A mere few weeks ago they were getting all hot and bothered about accusations of bullying and vote rigging. What the **** is going on in these people’s minds. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

[Radium]

When do the documentary cameras stop filming?


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[Hibby Kay-Yay]

When do the documentary cameras stop filming?


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Once Hearts are allowed back into the Premiership :cb

[hibbyfraelibby]

Once Hearts are allowed back into the Premiership :cb

That'll give Corrie a run for its money...

[SouthMoroccoStu]

When do the documentary cameras stop filming?


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Insert Michael Jackson popcorn eating gif here

[jacomo]

This will be her legacy. The philanthropic donations has taken this story to an all new bizarre level


Bizarre is right, if not completely preposterous.

Neil Doncaster has asked for some kind of proof these so called philanthropists exist.

I bet they don’t.

[Jdawg]

Hearts are like that idiot friend you have. You can’t argue with stupid.

[WoreTheGreen]

Bizarre is right, if not completely preposterous.

Neil Doncaster has asked for some kind of proof these so called philanthropists exist.

I bet they don’t.

What surprises me is guys that save up stamps are so generous

[Waxy]

What surprises me is guys that save up stamps are so generous

I always thought philanthropists were rich people who gave chunks of money to good causes.
Then i heard they collect stamps?
Dunno whats what here?

[CropleyWasGod]

I always thought philanthropists were rich people who gave chunks of money to good causes.
Then i heard they collect stamps?
Dunno whats what here?

Philately will get you anywhere.

[Eyrie]

Philately will get you anywhere.

I like the way you deliver your puns.

[ancient hibee]

Philately will get you anywhere.

I think the first person I heard tell that joke was Kenneth Horne on what we used to call the wireless.

[WoreTheGreen]

I like the way you deliver your puns.

Aye first class

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Hearts are like that idiot friend you have. You can’t argue with stupid.

Agreed

When arguing with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you on experience

Leave them to twist in the wind, drinking all the puddles and licking all the windows they want, we’ll be the ones enjoying top flight football next season.

[kdhibees1]

Honestly thinking the crazy desperate updates from budge and co only mean one thing and it’s certainly going to be a lot worse that admin

[Mick O'Rourke]

What surprises me is guys that save up stamps are so generous

Philately will get you nowhere :greengrin

[WoreTheGreen]

And Budgie is ready to deliver I’ll take Henderson all day long

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the first person I heard tell that joke was Kenneth Horne on what we used to call the wireless.

Might have been Julian and Sandy, except it wasn't philately 😂

[007]

Great - how many millions will you donate to the lower leagues?

Multiple but there are strings attached. Though I might detach them in a couple of days time.

[FilipinoHibs]

Hearts are like that idiot friend you have. You can’t argue with stupid.

Like arguing with US Trump supporters. She is the Trump of Scottish football. Full of self-importance, self-congratulatly, makes outlandish statements that are obviously lies but never retracts them. Surrounded by yes people. A laughing stock with most of society. Having near breakdowns in public. This is some big jobby. One more flush.. .

[calumhibee1]

Hearts philanthropists are like the first lassie you claimed to have ****ged. They were absolutely tidy but they went to a different school so nobody else knew them.

[FilipinoHibs]

Hearts philanthropists are like the first lassie you claimed to have ****ged. They were absolutely tidy but they went to a different school so nobody else knew them.

😀

[HoboHarry]

Hearts philanthropists are like the first lassie you claimed to have ****ged. They were absolutely tidy but they went to a different school so nobody else knew them.

😂😂 brilliant analogy lol.......

[Jim44]

Would the secret donations to Hearts by her philanthropic friends have been logged under ‘anonymous’ on their ‘unsigned’ books?

[brog]

Nice point.

To have £6.3m of cash sent to your brother capitalised in the accounts without being questioned by the fans is also a major achievement.

My instincts tell me there's something not quite right here but i can't figure it out. Any thoughts? Also any info on the £4m loan due to be repayed this year?

[proud_and_green]

Might have been Julian and Sandy, except it wasn't philately [emoji23]Oooooh, not that nice Mr Horne....?

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[FilipinoHibs]

My instincts tell me there's something not quite right here but i can't figure it out. Any thoughts? Also any info on the £4m loan due to be repayed this year?

Not aware of the €4m loan. Budge made a £1.9m loan facility. Not all taken up but what was is still outstanding. Then there is the FOH money sitting in limbo about £2 million to buy her shares. The £6.3m to her brother is incredible. Together with what is owed that is about a third of the cost of their new stand.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Non disclosure agreements anyone?

[brog]

Not aware of the €4m loan. Budge made a £1.9m loan facility. Not all taken up but what was is still outstanding. Then there is the FOH money sitting in limbo about £2 million to buy her shares. The £6.3m to her brother is incredible. Together with what is owed that is about a third of the cost of their new stand.

Here's the info from the accounts. £870k is owed to Budge & £1m owed to another director at market interest rates! I wonder if those were variable!! Still leaves over £2m unexplained & all due ( though could be extended ) next month. Hmmmm!

Creditors: amounts falling due within one year2019 Loans and overdrafts £3,972 As explained in note 19 the loans from group undertakings and related parties are now of a current nature.
Loans and overdrafts (Continued)Bidco (1874) Limited provided a number of additional short term loan facilities to the company over the courseof the year, amounting to £700k. Bidco (1874) Limited also agreed to extend the short-term loan facility of£170k provided in the prior year, for an additional 12 month period. The total short term facilities owed to Bidco(1874) Limited at 30 June 2019 was £870k. These facilities have been provided on an interest free basis.In 2017, a director provided a £1.75m loan facility to the company for a period of two years. At 30 June 2018,£1.7m had been drawn down. During the current year the company repaid £1m. The loan has been providedat market interest rates. Subsequent to the year end, the director has varied the facility for another 12 monthperiod, with the outstanding facility of £750k increased to £1m.

[04Sauzee]

Here's the info from the accounts. £870k is owed to Budge & £1m owed to another director at market interest rates! I wonder if those were variable!! Still leaves over £2m unexplained & all due ( though could be extended ) next month. Hmmmm!

Creditors: amounts falling due within one year2019 Loans and overdrafts £3,972 As explained in note 19 the loans from group undertakings and related parties are now of a current nature.
Loans and overdrafts (Continued)Bidco (1874) Limited provided a number of additional short term loan facilities to the company over the courseof the year, amounting to £700k. Bidco (1874) Limited also agreed to extend the short-term loan facility of£170k provided in the prior year, for an additional 12 month period. The total short term facilities owed to Bidco(1874) Limited at 30 June 2019 was £870k. These facilities have been provided on an interest free basis.In 2017, a director provided a £1.75m loan facility to the company for a period of two years. At 30 June 2018,£1.7m had been drawn down. During the current year the company repaid £1m. The loan has been providedat market interest rates. Subsequent to the year end, the director has varied the facility for another 12 monthperiod, with the outstanding facility of £750k increased to £1m.

Is that good or bad? 😅

[hibbyfraelibby]

Is that good or bad? 😅

It is certainly not good...

[FilipinoHibs]

Here's the info from the accounts. £870k is owed to Budge & £1m owed to another director at market interest rates! I wonder if those were variable!! Still leaves over £2m unexplained & all due ( though could be extended ) next month. Hmmmm!

Creditors: amounts falling due within one year2019 Loans and overdrafts £3,972 As explained in note 19 the loans from group undertakings and related parties are now of a current nature.
Loans and overdrafts (Continued)Bidco (1874) Limited provided a number of additional short term loan facilities to the company over the courseof the year, amounting to £700k. Bidco (1874) Limited also agreed to extend the short-term loan facility of£170k provided in the prior year, for an additional 12 month period. The total short term facilities owed to Bidco(1874) Limited at 30 June 2019 was £870k. These facilities have been provided on an interest free basis.In 2017, a director provided a £1.75m loan facility to the company for a period of two years. At 30 June 2018,£1.7m had been drawn down. During the current year the company repaid £1m. The loan has been providedat market interest rates. Subsequent to the year end, the director has varied the facility for another 12 monthperiod, with the outstanding facility of £750k increased to £1m.

Thanks. Looks very messy. You can see with the players and coaching staff salary liabilities and the reduced income from season ticket sales and match day income they are in trouble. Budge and directors in for a big hit. Only way out is voluntary admin. No wonder she has been going radge.

[Billy Whizz]

Thanks. Looks very messy. You can see with the players and coaching staff salary liabilities and the reduced income from season ticket sales and match day income they are in trouble. Budge and directors in for a big hit. Only way out is voluntary admin. No wonder she has been going radge.

How does she get her money if that’s the way?

[greenginger]

Hi
How does she get her money if that’s the way?


Loan secured on the club assets ?

[Kato]

Really if it is philanthropists looking to put money into Scottish football then it has nothing to do with hearts, they should google SPFL as a starting point.
Unless there are strings attached.The strings attached are tiny violins for the Jambos.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

Hi


Loan secured on the club assets ?

Ok, so are the football debts, so who would be the losers

[FilipinoHibs]

Ok, so are the football debts, so who would be the losers

Voluntary admin would get the directors off hook for the players wages. The Motherwell admin in the end found players wages were football debts after court action. Those liabilities bigger than the loans she has to the club. The shares and FOH money could be complicated legally. Admins would look for a buyer. Someone might offer Budge more than the FOH money, Gillet, and takeover the football debts. That is probably her best out

[Ozyhibby]

Hearts are going into the championship next season with the same players they had this season. Very little chance of moving any of them on in the current market. And after the bodged wage cut negotiations the atmosphere between players and club will be strained to say the least.


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[calumhibee1]

Hearts are going into the championship next season with the same players they had this season. Very little chance of moving any of them on in the current market. And after the bodged wage cut negotiations the atmosphere between players and club will be strained to say the least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they went down in normal circumstances and kept the same squad they wouldn’t come straight back up. They’re that bad. With other smaller clubs having to cut costs etc though it could be a very poor league next season so they may well be ok.

[hhibs]

Oooooh, not that nice Mr Horne....?

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk


More round the bend than Round The Horne,older listeners KEN what's going on.

[jacomo]

Here's the info from the accounts. £870k is owed to Budge & £1m owed to another director at market interest rates! I wonder if those were variable!! Still leaves over £2m unexplained & all due ( though could be extended ) next month. Hmmmm!

Creditors: amounts falling due within one year2019 Loans and overdrafts £3,972 As explained in note 19 the loans from group undertakings and related parties are now of a current nature.
Loans and overdrafts (Continued)Bidco (1874) Limited provided a number of additional short term loan facilities to the company over the courseof the year, amounting to £700k. Bidco (1874) Limited also agreed to extend the short-term loan facility of£170k provided in the prior year, for an additional 12 month period. The total short term facilities owed to Bidco(1874) Limited at 30 June 2019 was £870k. These facilities have been provided on an interest free basis.In 2017, a director provided a £1.75m loan facility to the company for a period of two years. At 30 June 2018,£1.7m had been drawn down. During the current year the company repaid £1m. The loan has been providedat market interest rates. Subsequent to the year end, the director has varied the facility for another 12 monthperiod, with the outstanding facility of £750k increased to £1m.


I thought Budge bragged that Hearts have no debt?

What is the proper way of describing a Director’s loan at commercial interest rates to a company which can’t borrow from a bank?

[Eyrie]

I thought Budge bragged that Hearts have no debt?

What is the proper way of describing a Director’s loan at commercial interest rates to a company which can’t borrow from a bank?

A liability.

[007]

What I don't get is why hold back on the transfer of ownership when she's supposed to be continuing to run the show afterwards anyway? Is it a control things as she won't have quite the same authority after the transfer has taken place?

The story given is as it's because they want to have a big celebration when it happens but that seems a bit odd. What does it matter if you complete the process now but wait and have the party when it is possible to do so? All seems a bit strange.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-fan-ownership-timeframe-set-18333226

[greenginger]

What I don't get is why hold back on the transfer of ownership when she's supposed to be continuing to run the show afterwards anyway? Is it a control things as she won't have quite the same authority after the transfer has taken place?

The story given is as it's because they want to have a big celebration when it happens but that seems a bit odd. What does it matter if you complete the process now but wait and have the party when it is possible to do so? All seems a bit strange.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-fan-ownership-timeframe-set-18333226


It is maybe the FoH brass that don’t want the transfer just now.

I’m sure there has been questions from the FoH grunts about various financial matters , but they’ve all been batted as confidential information.

When control is passed over all will be revealed. :cb

[stuart-farquhar]

If they went down in normal circumstances and kept the same squad they wouldn’t come straight back up. They’re that bad. With other smaller clubs having to cut costs etc though it could be a very poor league next season so they may well be ok.

Where do all the players go then? If released presumably they simply stop playing. Lose lose for everyone.

[ancient hibee]

More round the bend than Round The Horne,older listeners KEN what's going on.

It’s certainly Beyond My Ken.

[JimBHibees]

Here's the info from the accounts. £870k is owed to Budge & £1m owed to another director at market interest rates! I wonder if those were variable!! Still leaves over £2m unexplained & all due ( though could be extended ) next month. Hmmmm!

Creditors: amounts falling due within one year2019 Loans and overdrafts £3,972 As explained in note 19 the loans from group undertakings and related parties are now of a current nature.
Loans and overdrafts (Continued)Bidco (1874) Limited provided a number of additional short term loan facilities to the company over the courseof the year, amounting to £700k. Bidco (1874) Limited also agreed to extend the short-term loan facility of£170k provided in the prior year, for an additional 12 month period. The total short term facilities owed to Bidco(1874) Limited at 30 June 2019 was £870k. These facilities have been provided on an interest free basis.In 2017, a director provided a £1.75m loan facility to the company for a period of two years. At 30 June 2018,£1.7m had been drawn down. During the current year the company repaid £1m. The loan has been providedat market interest rates. Subsequent to the year end, the director has varied the facility for another 12 monthperiod, with the outstanding facility of £750k increased to £1m.

Is the director named? Thinking may be Levein hence the reluctance to get rid.

[HFC93]

Hearts are going into the championship next season with the same players they had this season. Very little chance of moving any of them on in the current market. And after the bodged wage cut negotiations the atmosphere between players and club will be strained to say the least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely most of the players will have relegation clauses, which will allow Hearts to move them on?

[Tobias Funke]

Hearts philanthropists are like the first lassie you claimed to have ****ged. They were absolutely tidy but they went to a different school so nobody else knew them.

🤣🤣

[brog]

Is that good or bad? 😅

They're due to pay back a loan of £1m to a director & other loans totalling £2m next month.
At end June 2019 they owed trade creditors £2.3m more than they were owed by trade debtors. Our trade debtors exceeded our trade creditors by £600k.
At end June 2019 they had £600k in the bank. We had £5.5m
None of the above is good for Hearts.
They turned around a negative cash flow of £5.3m in 2018 to a positive of £392k this year but that was as a result of nearly £2m (net) in donations.

These numbers are now nearly a year old. Their finances may have improved but as their revenue last year included a cup final & semi final & increased attendances at Murrayfield I doubt their gate income can have increased. If these were our numbers I would be concerned.

[brog]

Is the director named? Thinking may be Levein hence the reluctance to get rid.

Not named Jim, I had that thought also but unfortunately I doubt it. If it was Harry P he would certainly be calling it in!!

[Ozyhibby]

Surely most of the players will have relegation clauses, which will allow Hearts to move them on?

No, only to reduce their wages. They have already taken those cuts and the agreement was the relegation cuts were based on their original agreement. Even if it’s as high as a 25% cut then they still won’t be able to earn more elsewhere post covid.


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[zitelli62]

There f***** could not happen to nicer people let's not forget what the fat Tory b****** tried to do to us I wont let them die.

Tick tock tick tock

[CropleyWasGod]

Not named Jim, I had that thought also but unfortunately I doubt it. If it was Harry P he would certainly be calling it in!!

Note 31 says it's Dr. B. As far as I can see, that loan is unsecured.

All of Bidco's loans are secured over the stadium, and the other assets.

Interestingly, FOH also have security over the stadium, although that is subordinated to Bidco's charge.

[Ozyhibby]

Note 31 says it's Dr. B. As far as I can see, that loan is unsecured.

All of Bidco's loans are secured over the stadium, and the other assets.

Interestingly, FOH also have security over the stadium, although that is subordinated to Bidco's charge.

They better hope there is no admin then because all their friendly creditors won’t get a vote on a CVA.


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[HibbySpurs]

I thought Budge bragged that Hearts have no debt?

What is the proper way of describing a Director’s loan at commercial interest rates to a company which can’t borrow from a bank?

They owe it to themselves...

[HibbySpurs]

Is the director named? Thinking may be Levein hence the reluctance to get rid.

No way Levein has that sort of money to loan out... Likes the bookies to much.

[brog]

Note 31 says it's Dr. B. As far as I can see, that loan is unsecured.

All of Bidco's loans are secured over the stadium, and the other assets.

Interestingly, FOH also have security over the stadium, although that is subordinated to Bidco's charge.

I missed that, interesting that it's separate from the Bidco loans. Really looks like the whole financial structure is a house of cards held together by Budge. I think her ego will be their downfall.

[CropleyWasGod]

I missed that, interesting that it's separate from the Bidco loans. Really looks like the whole financial structure is a house of cards held together by Budge. I think her ego will be their downfall.

It's only 1 line that mentions her, so it's not surprising that you might miss it. Every other reference is to "a" director's loan. Part of me wonders if that obfuscation (?) was deliberate.

[RyeSloan]

It's only 1 line that mentions her, so it's not surprising that you might miss it. Every other reference is to "a" director's loan. Part of me wonders if that obfuscation (?) was deliberate.

So to be clear Budge is in the hole for £2m in outstanding loans? Half though Bidco interest free and other half directly as a Directors loan at market rates....and that was before the disaster of the last seasons finances and the January transfer panic?

[El Gubbz]

They're due to pay back a loan of £1m to a director & other loans totalling £2m next month.
At end June 2019 they owed trade creditors £2.3m more than they were owed by trade debtors. Our trade debtors exceeded our trade creditors by £600k.
At end June 2019 they had £600k in the bank. We had £5.5m
None of the above is good for Hearts.
They turned around a negative cash flow of £5.3m in 2018 to a positive of £392k this year but that was as a result of nearly £2m (net) in donations.

These numbers are now nearly a year old. Their finances may have improved but as their revenue last year included a cup final & semi final & increased attendances at Murrayfield I doubt their gate income can have increased. If these were our numbers I would be concerned.

Would almost all of their creditor numbers not be entirely season tickets purchased pre 30 June 2019 for season 19/20 (sure the majority of their creditors were falling within 12 months so makes sense).

Our books are definitely in a much healthier position which is pretty impressive considering how much extra revenue they’ve got.

Much of that is to do with them having Hospitality in-house though but maybe having a lot of our hospitality outsourced hasn’t been such a bad thing during this pandemic

[cocteautwin]

It's only 1 line that mentions her, so it's not surprising that you might miss it. Every other reference is to "a" director's loan. Part of me wonders if that obfuscation (?) was deliberate.

She's been a bit misleading about this loan from the start. I remember she told everyone that HMFC had secured additional funding of almost £2m a while back and the way it was worded seemed to imply that it was a loan from an external institution to HMFC but in fact it was a loan from her to Hearts. Actually, looking at that note 31 it does say that the loan is a back to back facility so I guess the loan to her does come from an external institution, she guarantees it herself and then she has granted the further loan to HMFC, so in some ways I can understand why she wanted it to look like external funding.

[Heisenberg]

Their mystery benefactor has been revealed

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-anderson-unmasked-hearts-mystery-22117108

[we are hibs]

Their mystery benefactor has been revealed

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-anderson-unmasked-hearts-mystery-22117108

I thought this was common knowledge? At least the Baillie Gifford part anyway

[Onion]

Their mystery benefactor has been revealed

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-anderson-unmasked-hearts-mystery-22117108

Not surprised it was one of the BG guys using their pocket change to prop up Hearts.

But be under no illusion. If Anderson donates a chunk of free money to the SPFL, he will be in a position to subtly influence decisions in Hearts favour. Morally, clubs and the SPFL will feel obliged to repay any generosity in some way and Budge will be able to leverage her relationship with him to get what she wants. This guy is not neutral and could be the ace up Budge's sleeve to get her out of trouble.

[The 90+2]

Not surprised it was one of the BG guys using their pocket change to prop up Hearts.

But be under no illusion. If Anderson donates a chunk of free money to the SPFL, he will be in a position to subtly influence decisions in Hearts favour. Morally, clubs and the SPFL will feel obliged to repay any generosity in some way and Budge will be able to leverage her relationship with him to get what she wants. This guy is not neutral and could be the ace up Budge's sleeve to get her out of trouble.

As much as I agree with you on the whole the gesture as a whole is very decent. Hearts will lose about £4m they say going down, why does the guy not just donate that to them instead of potentially more to the lower league clubs if it was all about them staying in this league? Or is the bigger picture that they could be crippled with no games. If reconstruction fails?

Could we then see a situation where hearts then take the spfl to court yet the same guy that puts money into hearts is putting money into the other clubs to help any compensation they may have to eventually pay to hearts?

[FilipinoHibs]

I thought this was common knowledge? At least the Baillie Gifford part anyway

Many said so but others were put forward to. He has been a partner since 1987 so will be a very wealthy man. Ties in with CapitalGreen's report that he has been hit by the financial crisis - his funds are invested in equities that were badly hit - and Hearts were down the list of benefactors

I think it is an attempt to make the Championship viable behind closed doors so Hearts don't go under. Without gate receipts each club on average needs about a £1 million to survive a season.

[CropleyWasGod]

The article is ambiguous.

It talks about "He and others" being the donors, and then later on about him being the only donor.

[duffers]

The article is ambiguous.

It talks about "He and others" being the donors, and then later on about him being the only donor.

If you take a look at who write it.... are you really surprised?

[Michael]

Sick of Hearts wasting his money, so he's gonna give it to the other clubs.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Surely this leaking now isn’t to somehow influence last-ditch voting on league restructuring?

That would be too obvious a massive bribe/corruption right?

[Man Down Under]

Surely this leaking now isn’t to somehow influence last-ditch voting on league restructuring?

That would be too obvious a massive bribe/corruption right?I don't think the donation is based on reconstruction, if anything the donation should allow a bit more normality with how to proceed.

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[Onion]

As much as I agree with you on the whole the gesture as a whole is very decent. Hearts will lose about £4m they say going down, why does the guy not just donate that to them instead of potentially more to the lower league clubs if it was all about them staying in this league? Or is the bigger picture that they could be crippled with no games. If reconstruction fails?

Could we then see a situation where hearts then take the spfl to court yet the same guy that puts money into hearts is putting money into the other clubs to help any compensation they may have to eventually pay to hearts?

Who knows but got to ask... if it was St Mirren or Hibs relegated, would we be hearing from him ? No, don't think so either. SPFL need to interrogate his motives and to what extent this is driven by Hearts predicament.

Hearts have run their race for the Prem. They'll not take this to court. Anderson pumping £millions more into Hearts is not going to help them now, so a different approach is needed.

[Caversham Green]

Surely this leaking now isn’t to somehow influence last-ditch voting on league restructuring?

That would be too obvious a massive bribe/corruption right?

I think it might be the opposite. I doubt if James Anderson would want to be known as the man who bribed or coerced clubs to vote Hearts back into the SPFL whereas while he was anonymous it was always possible. Maybe ND has asked that his identity should be revealed to show that it's all above board.

If this donation comes to pass we should be grateful to the man - Alloa, Brechin and Stenhousemuir are just as important a part of Scottish football as Celtic, Rangers, Hibs or Aberdeen. Hearts - not so much.

[Ozyhibby]

I think this makes it more difficult for Hearts to avoid relegation. Any reconstruction now would make it look like the clubs were bribed. The damage to the game would be massive. It would also damage Hearts in the long term more than a relegation would.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think this makes it more difficult for Hearts to avoid relegation. Any reconstruction now would make it look like the clubs were bribed. The damage to the game would be massive. It would also damage Hearts in the long term more than a relegation would.


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Actually Keith Jackson makes that exact point in the record today.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-anderson-unmasked-spfl-mystery-22117004.amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[Clarence]

It’s his money and he can do what he likes with it but I wonder what that money could have done to save lives during this pandemic.

Lower league football and Opera are tragic but they should not be the tragedies we focus on when there are real tragedies out there to be managed.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s his money and he can do what he likes with it but I wonder what that money could have done to save lives during this pandemic.

Lower league football and Opera are tragic but they should not be the tragedies we focus on when there are real tragedies out there to be managed.

We are not lacking money during this pandemic. The hospitals are not being held back in any way by lack of cash to fight it.


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[brog]

I thought this was common knowledge? At least the Baillie Gifford part anyway

Some said it was them, others said no.

[Peevemor]

I think it might be the opposite. I doubt if James Anderson would want to be known as the man who bribed or coerced clubs to vote Hearts back into the SPFL whereas while he was anonymous it was always possible. Maybe ND has asked that his identity should be revealed to show that it's all above board.

If this donation comes to pass we should be grateful to the man - Alloa, Brechin and Stenhousemuir are just as important a part of Scottish football as Celtic, Rangers, Hibs or Aberdeen. Hearts - not so much.

It could be that he intended to put up the money in any case, but let Budge infer that it had to pass through Hearts in an effort to strengthen their reconstruction argument.

[CapitalGreen]

Many said so but others were put forward to. He has been a partner since 1987 so will be a very wealthy man. Ties in with CapitalGreen's report that he has been hit by the financial crisis - his funds are invested in equities that were badly hit - and Hearts were down the list of benefactors

I think it is an attempt to make the Championship viable behind closed doors so Hearts don't go under. Without gate receipts each club on average needs about a £1 million to survive a season.

Apology accepted

[The Falcon]

They're due to pay back a loan of £1m to a director & other loans totalling £2m next month.
At end June 2019 they owed trade creditors £2.3m more than they were owed by trade debtors. Our trade debtors exceeded our trade creditors by £600k.
At end June 2019 they had £600k in the bank. We had £5.5m
None of the above is good for Hearts.
They turned around a negative cash flow of £5.3m in 2018 to a positive of £392k this year but that was as a result of nearly £2m (net) in donations.

These numbers are now nearly a year old. Their finances may have improved but as their revenue last year included a cup final & semi final & increased attendances at Murrayfield I doubt their gate income can have increased. If these were our numbers I would be concerned.

How is their (now) £22.5m main stand being funded?

[lucky]

I think it might be the opposite. I doubt if James Anderson would want to be known as the man who bribed or coerced clubs to vote Hearts back into the SPFL whereas while he was anonymous it was always possible. Maybe ND has asked that his identity should be revealed to show that it's all above board.

If this donation comes to pass we should be grateful to the man - Alloa, Brechin and Stenhousemuir are just as important a part of Scottish football as Celtic, Rangers, Hibs or Aberdeen. Hearts - not so much.

Spot on, outside of Hibs very few are that bothered about Hearts going down. This gesture if it comes to fruition is an amazing gesture that could save the SPFL lower league clubs. I doubt a guy of his business standing is going to be linked with trying to bribe clubs into voting for restructuring.

But if he is such a big jambo why did he not buy them out of administration? Budgie put up £2m for them and is supposedly getting her cash back but in the Record article he’s put in £9m for nothing. I don’t think we’ve seen all the pieces of the Hearts financial puzzle just yet.

[brog]

The article says £9m over 7 years & mentions the Save The Children shirt sponsorship. I (& others) identified £9m in the last 3 years alone & the shirt deal started in 2015. Cocteau estimated £15m donations in the last 3 years. They've spaffed this huge financial advantage up against a wall, or rather a glass curtain!!

[Peevemor]

Spot on, outside of Hibs very few are that bothered about Hearts going down. This gesture if it comes to fruition is an amazing gesture that could save the SPFL lower league clubs. I doubt a guy of his business standing is going to be linked with trying to bribe clubs into voting for restructuring.

But if he is such a big jambo why did he not buy them out of administration? Budgie put up £2m for them and is supposedly getting her cash back but in the Record article he’s put in £9m for nothing. I don’t think we’ve seen all the pieces of the Hearts financial puzzle just yet.

I think Hamilton, Ross County & St Mirren are extremely "bothered" about Hearts going down.

[Lee Marvin]

James Anderson is the real deal. An extraordinarily wealthy man who is literally a genius in the field of Investments - runs arguably one of the best, and now biggest, Investment Trusts (Funds) in the world.

The way this has unfolded is very interesting. My feeling is that Anderson and Budge have been speaking throughout this crisis with Benny ready to release funds directly to Hearts if they managed to stay in the Premiership. However, their 'plan B' would be to provide funds to the lower leagues so that Hearts actually have a league to play in if they eventually got the chop.

This seals Hearts fate, make no mistake about that. Anything other than Hearts being relegated would be seen as a bribe and there is no way on earth that Anderson would get embroiled in a scandal like that - especially coming from the heavily regulated Financial Services world and in his position as Partner at Baillie Gifford.

Hearts are down, 100%. But I am slightly gutted that he is Benny Factor as he is extremely credible and wealthy

[brog]

How is their (now) £22.5m main stand being funded?

IIRC a donation of £2.3m last year was specifically towards development costs.. Other than that i haven't tried to identify that funding.

[CapitalGreen]

James Anderson and his wife Morag are the main benefactor for the Edinburgh International Festival who Hearts allowed inexplicably to host their opening concert on the brand new £1m pitch, destroying it for the best part of a year. The answer to who was benefactor was staring you in the face the whole time.

https://www.eif.co.uk/support-us/supporters-1

https://i2-prod.edinburghlive.co.uk/incoming/article16409450.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/0_14455495.jpg

[Peevemor]

The DR article says that he has given money to Hearts "along with others".

It's not just him.

[jeffers]

James Anderson is the real deal. An extraordinarily wealthy man who is literally a genius in the field of Investments - runs arguably one of the best, and now biggest, Investment Trusts (Funds) in the world.

The way this has unfolded is very interesting. My feeling is that Anderson and Budge have been speaking throughout this crisis with Benny ready to release funds directly to Hearts if they managed to stay in the Premiership. However, their 'plan B' would be to provide funds to the lower leagues so that Hearts actually have a league to play in if they eventually got the chop.

This seals Hearts fate, make no mistake about that. Anything other than Hearts being relegated would be seen as a bribe and there is no way on earth that Anderson would get embroiled in a scandal like that - especially coming from the heavily regulated Financial Services world and in his position as Partner at Baillie Gifford.

Hearts are down, 100%. But I am slightly gutted that he is Benny Factor as he is extremely credible and wealthy

Something smells about this tho. If he’s been pumping money into Hearts and is willing to continue to do so how come Budge was the first to come out and state the financial impact of Covid-19 would be serious for them. First she insists players had to take a pay cut, then even more surprisingly refuses to offer refunds on season tickets and only on Saturday says relegation will cost jobs. It just doesn’t add up.

[HibbySpurs]

James Anderson is the real deal. An extraordinarily wealthy man who is literally a genius in the field of Investments - runs arguably one of the best, and now biggest, Investment Trusts (Funds) in the world.

The way this has unfolded is very interesting. My feeling is that Anderson and Budge have been speaking throughout this crisis with Benny ready to release funds directly to Hearts if they managed to stay in the Premiership. However, their 'plan B' would be to provide funds to the lower leagues so that Hearts actually have a league to play in if they eventually got the chop.

This seals Hearts fate, make no mistake about that. Anything other than Hearts being relegated would be seen as a bribe and there is no way on earth that Anderson would get embroiled in a scandal like that - especially coming from the heavily regulated Financial Services world and in his position as Partner at Baillie Gifford.

Hearts are down, 100%. But I am slightly gutted that he is Benny Factor as he is extremely credible and wealthy

Agree with this. A man of this standing will not want to be potentially tarnished with having “bribed” Scottish football to save the team he supports from relegation. Also the league and clubs must understand the repetitional damage which would be done to them should they be seen to be taking a “bribe”, even if it’s not a “bribe” it would be seen by many ordinary people as being one (no smoke without fire etc.).

Punters would turn their backs on the game and the clubs could face catastrophic loss of revenues from such an outcome.

I would say I doubt very much Hearts will be going into admin or bust anytime soon with someone like this prepared to stand behind them, that doesn’t mean he may not insist that going forward they use a more prudent business model.

One thing I do wonder now is that has the Budgie simply been a frontwoman all along with this guy pulling the strings from the shadows?

[Ozyhibby]

Agree with this. A man of this standing will not want to be potentially tarnished with having “bribed” Scottish football to save the team he supports from relegation. Also the league and clubs must understand the repetitional damage which would be done to them should they be seen to be taking a “bribe”, even if it’s not a “bribe” it would be seen by many ordinary people as being one (no smoke without fire etc.).

Punters would turn their backs on the game and the clubs could face catastrophic loss of revenues from such an outcome.

I would say I doubt very much Hearts will be going into admin or bust anytime soon with someone like this prepared to stand behind them, that doesn’t mean he may not insist that going forward they use a more prudent business model.

One thing I do wonder now is that has the Budgie simply been a frontwoman all along with this guy pulling the strings from the shadows?

More likely just she knows him. Good chance her wealth is invested in his fund.


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[The 90+2]

Who knows but got to ask... if it was St Mirren or Hibs relegated, would we be hearing from him ? No, don't think so either. SPFL need to interrogate his motives and to what extent this is driven by Hearts predicament.

Hearts have run their race for the Prem. They'll not take this to court. Anderson pumping £millions more into Hearts is not going to help them now, so a different approach is needed.

👍

[Andy74]

Doncaster has played a blinder here.

Some loose chat from Budge and they’ve been forced out. Whatever was going on was in some way linked to helping Hearts. She mis-spoke and now if this money does come in then everyone is all over exactly what it is for.

I’ve no concerns that Hearts have had some backing from him in the past. They have a shambles on and off the park to show for it. It also isn’t sustainable and then what?

Will be interesting to see exactly what transpires from this free cash.

[JimBHibees]

Doncaster has played a blinder here.

Some loose chat from Budge and they’ve been forced out. Whatever was going on was in some way linked to helping Hearts. She mis-spoke and now if this money does come in then everyone is all over exactly what it is for.

I’ve no concerns that Hearts have had some backing from him in the past. They have a shambles on and off the park to show for it. It also isn’t sustainable and then what?

Will be interesting to see exactly what transpires from this free cash.

Agree Doncaster has been exceptional throughout this despite what Tom English says. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

James Anderson and his wife Morag are the main benefactor for the Edinburgh International Festival who Hearts allowed inexplicably to host their opening concert on the brand new £1m pitch, destroying it for the best part of a year. The answer to who was benefactor was staring you in the face the whole time.

https://www.eif.co.uk/support-us/supporters-1

https://i2-prod.edinburghlive.co.uk/incoming/article16409450.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/0_14455495.jpg

Is he the guy two along from Budge ?

[Brunswickbill]

If you were a true Hertz fan and saw the shambles that Budge has created and you wanted to do something to save the club’s situation, offering support for other teams in the championship is a counter-intuitive thing to do. Budge is blustering about reconstruction and legal action which will be all to no avail. Standing back as a fan of the club you would want Hertz to play the full season in the championship with expectation that they would win it and get promoted after one year. How do you do that? By ensuring that all clubs in championship are able to play. Hertz will be odds on to win (So long as Mrs Budge doesn’t really screw up) with other clubs struggling for finance and Benny Factor gets to support a winning team for the season.

It seems to me that it’s a win win for Anderson. A donation to assist will help all clubs but particularly the club he supports.

[jeffers]

Is he the guy two along from Budge ?

No, he’s the wee bald guy staring directly at the camera in the row above her.

[CapitalGreen]

Is he the guy two along from Budge ?

Directly behind Budge staring you in the face.

[lucky]

The question is why would he put so much into Hearts for nothing? He could have owned the club for £2m but has apparently given them £9m in donations for relaxing the dress code in the boardroom and getting a concert on their pitch. This just does not add up.

[Jones28]

The question is why would he put so much into Hearts for nothing? He could have owned the club for £2m but has apparently given them £9m in donations for relaxing the dress code in the boardroom and getting a concert on their pitch. This just does not add up.

Maybe he couldn’t be arsed? You’ve seen the hassle budge has had, and by the sounds of it he’s got money to burn.

[AltheHibby]

Maybe he couldn’t be arsed? You’ve seen the hassle budge has had, and by the sounds of it he’s got money to burn.

In the bigot infested cauldron that is Scottish football I would support Hibs anonymously if I had the money to burn. To me, owning a club is like owning a timeshare; fine when everything is reset, but a pain to get rid of at a later date.

[lucky]

Maybe he couldn’t be arsed? You’ve seen the hassle budge has had, and by the sounds of it he’s got money to burn.

I’m not aware of how much his personal wealth is but it’s clearly substantial. But he’s now outed and is going to be scrutinised by everyone who follows Scottish football.

[Jones28]

In the bigot infested cauldron that is Scottish football I would support Hibs anonymously if I had the money to burn. To me, owning a club is like owning a timeshare; fine when everything is reset, but a pain to get rid of at a later date.

Yepp, a great way to get rid of money.

[cocteautwin]

Directly behind Budge staring you in the face.

The big question is, why is he wearing a tie though? I thought he paid £15m so he didn't have to wear a tie!

[CapitalGreen]

The big question is, why is he wearing a tie though? I thought he paid £15m so he didn't have to wear a tie!

Here he is without a tie for you watching Boyle put 2 past the hapless Hearts goalie.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2AH8BJM/tynecastle-park-edinburghscotlanduk-26th-dec-19-hearts0-vs-hibernian-2-scottish-premiership-match-hearts-owner-ann-budgefront-looks-on-from-the-stand-credit-eric-mccowatalamy-live-news-2AH8BJM.jpg

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52660126?__twitter_impression=true

Clear out begins but it leaves them with a still massive expensive squad.[emoji106]


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[Jones28]

I’m not aware of how much his personal wealth is but it’s clearly substantial. But he’s now outed and is going to be scrutinised by everyone who follows Scottish football.

That’s the other thing, will he want to put up with such close scrutiny?

[jacomo]

James Anderson and his wife Morag are the main benefactor for the Edinburgh International Festival who Hearts allowed inexplicably to host their opening concert on the brand new £1m pitch, destroying it for the best part of a year. The answer to who was benefactor was staring you in the face the whole time.

https://www.eif.co.uk/support-us/supporters-1

https://i2-prod.edinburghlive.co.uk/incoming/article16409450.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/0_14455495.jpg


Yes indeed.

But Budge’s poor decision-making is not really an issue anymore. If he and his wife are happy to continue to throw money at her poorly run business that is up to them. The good news is that Scottish football might now have the means to get through next season - very good news.

[Spike Mandela]

Being somebody so wealthy and and a wise investor. You have to ask. Why didn’t he just buy Hearts and put someone he trusts in to run the club? Imagine what somebody who knew what they were doing could do with that sort of money in Scottish football?

[cocteautwin]

Apology accepted

:greengrin

I have to admit, the only thing that was holding me back from thinking the donor was Budge was the duty of the auditor to properly report any Director's transactions. Interesting revelation today. Who would have thought someone so wealthy and obviously good with money would send money to a football club to be spaffed (to steal a word) on an overbudget stand, a team full of charlatans who gave nought for their club (and £6m to the brother of the owner). Well well well.

[grunt]

Maybe he couldn’t be arsed? You’ve seen the hassle budge has had, and by the sounds of it he’s got money to burn.He's certainly good at that.

[Brightside]

Many said so but others were put forward to. He has been a partner since 1987 so will be a very wealthy man. Ties in with CapitalGreen's report that he has been hit by the financial crisis - his funds are invested in equities that were badly hit - and Hearts were down the list of benefactors

I think it is an attempt to make the Championship viable behind closed doors so Hearts don't go under. Without gate receipts each club on average needs about a £1 million to survive a season.

They took a huge hit in Feb....his stock is now at a year long high.

[brog]

I suspect Anderson has had to call Budge in & read the riot act. For a supposedly astute businesswoman the good Doctor has completely mismanaged the situation. Her increasingly aggressive, inaccurate & incoherent ramblings were portraying her Club & her sponsors in a bad light, even if the likes of English & the other MSM couldn't see it. Anderson has now stepped in & potentially turned a negative into a positive situation. Budge's ego will be satisfied as the media lackeys will be queueing up to portray her as the saviour of Scottish football. The important thing however is;
Hearts are down!! I would not be surprised to see a statement soon announcing the withdrawal of reconstruction proposals.

[Aldo]

Not surprised it was one of the BG guys using their pocket change to prop up Hearts.

But be under no illusion. If Anderson donates a chunk of free money to the SPFL, he will be in a position to subtly influence decisions in Hearts favour. Morally, clubs and the SPFL will feel obliged to repay any generosity in some way and Budge will be able to leverage her relationship with him to get what she wants. This guy is not neutral and could be the ace up Budge's sleeve to get her out of trouble.

Knowing the mans reputation he is very principled and would not in anyway want to tar his or the company’s reputation and if there is any inference of that I would suspect he would not be involved.

There will be no strings attached if this chap is involved.

Good on him


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[Kojock]

If this comes to fruition there is no way Budgie would take any court action which would financially harm the clubs who are to benefit from his donation. Or would she ???

[007]

James Anderson and his wife Morag are the main benefactor for the Edinburgh International Festival who Hearts allowed inexplicably to host their opening concert on the brand new £1m pitch, destroying it for the best part of a year. The answer to who was benefactor was staring you in the face the whole time.

https://www.eif.co.uk/support-us/supporters-1

https://i2-prod.edinburghlive.co.uk/incoming/article16409450.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/0_14455495.jpg


Is he the guy two along from Budge ?


No, he’s the wee bald guy staring directly at the camera in the row above her.

He looks more like Mr Magoo than a financial whizz.
23476

[G B Young]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52660126?__twitter_impression=true

Clear out begins but it leaves them with a still massive expensive squad.[emoji106]


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Looking at that list of players I'm struck by what a massive, bloated squad of unknowns they've accumulated. My knowledge of Scottish football squads is patchy at best these days but I've barely heard of any of that lot.

[G B Young]

Here he is without a tie for you watching Boyle put 2 past the hapless Hearts goalie.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2AH8BJM/tynecastle-park-edinburghscotlanduk-26th-dec-19-hearts0-vs-hibernian-2-scottish-premiership-match-hearts-owner-ann-budgefront-looks-on-from-the-stand-credit-eric-mccowatalamy-live-news-2AH8BJM.jpg

Which one is he in that pic? He's definitely not the guy in the open-necked shirt.

I'm guessing the 'no tie' stipulation must relate to one of his co-benefactors rather than Anderson?

Whatever, it's a bizarre pre-condition of investment - though not as bizarre as providing Hearts with such vast sums of money and just letting them waste it all on dreadful signings and out-of-control spending on an an unfinished stand. How must these guys be feeling to see relegation as the sum total of their investment?!

[Callum7]

Which one is he in that pic? He's definitely not the guy in the open-necked shirt.

I'm guessing the 'no tie' stipulation must relate to one of his co-benefactors rather than Anderson?

Whatever, it's a bizarre pre-condition of investment - though not as bizarre as providing Hearts with such vast sums of money and just letting them waste it all on dreadful signings and out-of-control spending on an an unfinished stand. How must these guys be feeling to see relegation as the sum total of their investment?!

Top left I think.

[NC1875]

Which one is he in that pic? He's definitely not the guy in the open-necked shirt.

I'm guessing the 'no tie' stipulation must relate to one of his co-benefactors rather than Anderson?

Whatever, it's a bizarre pre-condition of investment - though not as bizarre as providing Hearts with such vast sums of money and just letting them waste it all on dreadful signings and out-of-control spending on an an unfinished stand. How must these guys be feeling to see relegation as the sum total of their investment?!

Same row as Petrie. Far left.

[Andy74]

Many said so but others were put forward to. He has been a partner since 1987 so will be a very wealthy man. Ties in with CapitalGreen's report that he has been hit by the financial crisis - his funds are invested in equities that were badly hit - and Hearts were down the list of benefactors

I think it is an attempt to make the Championship viable behind closed doors so Hearts don't go under. Without gate receipts each club on average needs about a £1 million to survive a season.

You’ve no idea where his own personal funds are invested.

[FilipinoHibs]

:greengrin

I have to admit, the only thing that was holding me back from thinking the donor was Budge was the duty of the auditor to properly report any Director's transactions. Interesting revelation today. Who would have thought someone so wealthy and obviously good with money would send money to a football club to be spaffed (to steal a word) on an overbudget stand, a team full of charlatans who gave nought for their club (and £6m to the brother of the owner). Well well well.

His global equity fund is no 2 over five years in which he has beaten the index as well. This is remarkable for an active manager.

I think the relationship with Hearts probably started after the Budge take over. Budge may have had some money in his fund and she approached him. Given active managers pour over every aspect of a company , Anderson must have been horrified by Budge's performance. The weekend's interview was probably the last straw and he leaked the information to the press. It does firmly consolidate Hearts as Edinburgh's establishment club being funded by a partner in a traditional active fund manager who also sponsors the International Festival and the opera.

[Andy74]

His global equity fund is no 2 over five years in which he has beaten the index as well. This is remarkable for an active manager.

I think the relationship with Hearts probably started after the Budge take over. Budge may have had some money in his fund and she approached him. Given active managers pour over every aspect of a company , Anderson must have been horrified by Budge's performance. The weekend's interview was probably the last straw and he leaked the information to the press. It does firmly consolidate Hearts as Edinburgh's establishment club being funded by a partner in a traditional active fund manager who also sponsors the International Festival and the opera.

Bailie Gifford don’t describe themselves these days as active managers because that suggests constant tinkering. They call themselves ‘actual investors’ rather than active or passive.

[Brummie_Hibs]

I don't know enough about business rules regarding donations/investiments. let alone when it comes to football teams and leagues.

However, could there be a conflict of interest which could prevent donations to the leagues while also giving even more money to Hearts?

Putting aside allegations of bribery for league reconstruction, would these joint donations also lead to questions regarding possible bribery to ensure Hearts win the Championship?

[Biggie]

Which one is he in that pic? He's definitely not the guy in the open-necked shirt.

I'm guessing the 'no tie' stipulation must relate to one of his co-benefactors rather than Anderson?

Whatever, it's a bizarre pre-condition of investment - though not as bizarre as providing Hearts with such vast sums of money and just letting them waste it all on dreadful signings and out-of-control spending on an an unfinished stand. How must these guys be feeling to see relegation as the sum total of their investment?!

Hearts are like the kid that gets his pocket money for doing nothing.....he doesn't learn the value of money and *****s it right away, on anything....whereas my kids (obviously) earned their pocket money, and didn't blow it on everything/anything...they valued it.

I think this is hearts, they've got their money too easily and have splashed the cash willy nilly on *****.
If I was this guy, I wouldn't give them a penny more.

[Duke of Currie]

Is his money a donation or a loan ? Very generous if it is money for nothing , but is this a situation where his money are loans being held against assets or can be transferred for equity at a future date

[FilipinoHibs]

You’ve no idea where his own personal funds are invested.

Usually, these star fund managers have a significant investment in their own fund. It is an attractive marketing exercise and shows their commitment and belief in their investments. It ties in with CapitalGreen's intelligence on why at the height of the equity sell off he was scaling back on his charity work. Markets have since bounced and recovered more than 50% of their losses.

[coldingham hibs]

Is this guy even a Hearts supporter or has he just agreed to help Budge out.

[brog]

Is his money a donation or a loan ? Very generous if it is money for nothing , but is this a situation where his money are loans being held against assets or can be transferred for equity at a future date

The £8.75m in the last 3 years were donations to Hearts. Going forward they may want some recognition though I doubt the average Scottish footy fan will fit the profile of a BG investor!

[Tug Wilson]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52660126?__twitter_impression=true

Clear out begins but it leaves them with a still massive expensive squad.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is really just the announcement that expired contracts have not been renewed and players released and loanees returning to parent clubs. Exactly the same as Hibs with Slivka, Whittaker and Bogdan and Docherty, Omeonga, Naismith and McNulty. Seems to be a lot of the youth players so don't see a huge saving from the wage bill.

The real interest will come when they try to rid themselves of contracted players.

In a normal summer I suspect that a lot of players would be happy to walk away from a relegated club, but a player doing that in the current circumstances is taking a huge risk. Most will be happy to see out their contract as football gets back on track.

Therefore, Hearts will still be left with a bloated squad and little room to manoeuvre.

Having said that, Hibs are in a similar position. It will be difficult to move on players and we already have a reasonably full squad.

[MrSmith]

The £8.75m in the last 3 years were donations to Hearts. Going forward they may want some recognition though I doubt the average Scottish footy fan will fit the profile of a BG investor!

I wonder how much of his HMFC investment was to offset tax?

[Alfred E Newman]

Here he is without a tie for you watching Boyle put 2 past the hapless Hearts goalie.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2AH8BJM/tynecastle-park-edinburghscotlanduk-26th-dec-19-hearts0-vs-hibernian-2-scottish-premiership-match-hearts-owner-ann-budgefront-looks-on-from-the-stand-credit-eric-mccowatalamy-live-news-2AH8BJM.jpg

The Tash looking on with quiet satisfaction.

[oldbutdim]

Which one is he in that pic? He's definitely not the guy in the open-necked shirt.



He's not even a Jambo!

[Peevemor]

The £8.75m in the last 3 years were donations to Hearts. Going forward they may want some recognition though I doubt the average Scottish footy fan will fit the profile of a BG investor!But that wasn't necessarily all from one person. Budge has always referred to "benefactors".

[Irish_Steve]

I know that the money he has invested/given to Hearts is small change to him and he probably doesnt even feel like it`s gone but if I had that amount of money to spurge on my team, I wouldn`t want them to be failing as badly as Hearts

FWIW, if i ever did win the EuroMillions, I`d still only buy Pringles when they were half-price

[steviehibsleith]

Knowing the mans reputation he is very principled and would not in anyway want to tar his or the company’s reputation and if there is any inference of that I would suspect he would not be involved.

There will be no strings attached if this chap is involved.

Good on him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed if he wants to give money to help The Scottish game in what could be disastrous for many clubs then fantastic well done.

Hopefully all early press about him looks to show he’s genuine Legitimate,well earned wealth so a no strings 7 figure donation to help is tremendous and goes ahead quickly.
Then press/media etc express there gratitude and leave the guy alone if he wishes that.

Lets hope by the end of the week all is good and Scottish football returns with all clubs intact.....
And Hearts in the Championship .

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder how much of his HMFC investment was to offset tax?

If it was from personal funds, nowt :greengrin

Not even sure if "investment" is the correct term. From a community-involvement point of view, arguably it is. From a business POV, I'd say not.

[CropleyWasGod]

But that wasn't necessarily all from one person. Budge has always referred to "benefactors".

Yep. The DR piece talks about "him and others".

( as well as "him alone" :rolleyes:)

[MrSmith]

If it was from personal funds, nowt :greengrin

Not even sure if "investment" is the correct term. From a community-involvement point of view, arguably it is. From a business POV, I'd say not.

Cool :D I'm naturally suspicious of wealthy financier types :hmmm:

[007]

Only Budge could be involved in such a gesture and come out of it badly by arsing up her part in it by (it seems) attaching conditions.

She needs to save face so I'm half expecting the next twist in this tale to be that the money was offered solely to Hearts but Anne Budge said to give it to the SPFL to save the lower leagues. This however would send the Hearts fans into meltdown so surely she won't be daft enough.

[007]

Hearts are like the kid that gets his pocket money for doing nothing.....he doesn't learn the value of money and *****s it right away, on anything....whereas my kids (obviously) earned their pocket money, and didn't blow it on everything/anything...they valued it.

I think this is hearts, they've got their money too easily and have splashed the cash willy nilly on *****.
If I was this guy, I wouldn't give them a penny more.

Hearts: The Mickey Carroll of football. Also explains why they try to turn the derbies into demolition derbies.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lotto-winner-mickey-carroll-skint-20891585

[Fergos]

I don't know enough about business rules regarding donations/investiments. let alone when it comes to football teams and leagues.

However, could there be a conflict of interest which could prevent donations to the leagues while also giving even more money to Hearts?

Putting aside allegations of bribery for league reconstruction, would these joint donations also lead to questions regarding possible bribery to ensure Hearts win the Championship?

My question also BH, can he put £ into the lower leagues whilst still contributing to Hearts especially if they are part of these lower leagues? Conflict of interest surely?

Any expert clarify?

GGTTH

[Peevemor]

My question also BH, can he put £ into the lower leagues whilst still contributing to Hearts especially if they are part of these lower leagues? Conflict of interest surely?

Any expert clarify?

GGTTHIf we're speaking about donations (as opposed to investments) then I don't see the problem.

If we were asked to donate individually to the SPFL to pay for testing, giving money to Hibs too wouldn't represent a conflict of interests would it?

[HibbySpurs]

Wonder if he’s told her “it’s over, accept relegation and move on”, we’ll make sure the league goes ahead so Hearts can come back up in one season with minimal damage?

The best investors always know when to cut your losses and come again from a different angle.

[007]

Wonder if he’s told her “it’s over, accept relegation and move on”, we’ll make sure the league goes ahead so Hearts can come back up in one season with minimal damage?

The best investors always know when to cut your losses and come again from a different angle.

It surely knocks a court case on the head too.

[hibbyfraelibby]

But that wasn't necessarily all from one person. Budge has always referred to "benefactors".

You mean like his wife? She is co-mentioned re the Festival sponsorship. Wonder if they're in the same bridge club

[CropleyWasGod]

You mean like his wife? She is co-mentioned re the Festival sponsorship. Wonder if their in the same bridge club

If he has more than one wife :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

The Tash looking on with quiet satisfaction.

Looks like he is whistling a wee jaunty tune. :greengrin

[grunt]

FWIW, if i ever did win the EuroMillions, I`d still only buy Pringles when they were half-price:greengrin

[Joe6-2]

More likely UNESCO will take away Edinburgh’s world heritage site status unless that munter is pulled down.

EDIT: No part of the new main stand is visible from the Old Town, or vice versa, so it’s ok.

Not even from the castle?

[Fergos]

If we're speaking about donations (as opposed to investments) then I don't see the problem.

If we were asked to donate individually to the SPFL to pay for testing, giving money to Hibs too wouldn't represent a conflict of interests would it?

Thanks Peevemor.

If I’m reading correctly, this benefactor can put £ into Hearts and fund the lower leagues that they play in?

GGTTH

[Joe6-2]

Here he is without a tie for you watching Boyle put 2 past the hapless Hearts goalie.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2AH8BJM/tynecastle-park-edinburghscotlanduk-26th-dec-19-hearts0-vs-hibernian-2-scottish-premiership-match-hearts-owner-ann-budgefront-looks-on-from-the-stand-credit-eric-mccowatalamy-live-news-2AH8BJM.jpg

As is Budgies Hibby brother

[JimBHibees]

As is Budgies Hibby brother

That the guy directly behind Ann?

[Joe6-2]

That the guy directly behind Ann?

Yes

[vuefrom1875]

Yes

Sits in the west upper a few rows down from me!😎

[RyeSloan]

As is Budgies Hibby brother

Who now has most of Anderson’s money in his back pocket!!

[Onion]

I still want to know what conditions were attached to Anderson's wad when it was discussed with Doncaster. Suspect it included shoe-horning Hearts back into the Prem :cb

Got to say, when Budge took over at Hearts, I thought she was a decent sort, a polished savvy business woman. Amazing what 8 weeks can do for your reputation. She's a ranting, flapping, lying snake - well suited to her leadership role in Gorgie. After all her hot air and bluster, she's left with a bunch of old rich guys having to bail her out of her mess.

[Peevemor]

Thanks Peevemor.

If I’m reading correctly, this benefactor can put £ into Hearts and fund the lower leagues that they play in?

GGTTHI've no idea, but I don't see a problem with it.

Sponsorship or investment would be different.

[cocteautwin]

Who now has most of Anderson’s money in his back pocket!!

I read that comment hearing the music to Thug Life in my head and picturing some guy walking away with a black bag over his shoulder with “SWAG” written on it.

[Greenio]

Wonder if he’s told her “it’s over, accept relegation and move on”, we’ll make sure the league goes ahead so Hearts can come back up in one season with minimal damage?

The best investors always know when to cut your losses and come again from a different angle.

This.

She knowns she's down. Her problem is how are they were going to get out of a league that can't start because all the teams are skint.

This guy is bankrolling her only way back into the prem.

(Her next problem is the fact they are so ***** they will struggle to make top 4!)

[007]

This.

She knowns she's down. Her problem is how are they were going to get out of a league that can't start because all the teams are skint.

This guy is bankrolling her only way back into the prem.

(Her next problem is the fact they are so ***** they will struggle to make top 4!)

Plus appeasing the fans when it eventually dawns on them that not only are they not getting reconstructed into the Premiership, there also won't be a court case.

[Billy Whizz]

Sits in the west upper a few rows down from me!😎

He goes to ER as well?

[Sammy7nil]

doctor jambo
Junior Member
doctor jambo
Registered Users A

6,816 posts
Location - ayr
Posted 2 hours ago
Dont see why any philanthropist would agree for any of his donated cash should be wasted when much of the damage hoving into view could be avoided by reconstruction.

Seems a massive head scratch to me!

Otherwise its "I'll donate £5million to save every club," then most of that gets hoovered up by Hearts

They don't do irony :greengrin £9million unfinished stand and relegation :greengrin not a penny wasted .

[ronaldo7]

As is Budgies Hibby brother

Nice to see the tache keeping an eye on those slippery *******s, ensuring no Brown envelopes change hands.

[The Falcon]

IIRC a donation of £2.3m last year was specifically towards development costs.. Other than that i haven't tried to identify that funding.

Cheers B

I recall something like a £3m payment from FOH and another £3m from "wealthy supporters". That does leave a bit of shortfall.

[007]

doctor jambo
Junior Member
doctor jambo
Registered Users A

6,816 posts
Location - ayr
Posted 2 hours ago
Dont see why any philanthropist would agree for any of his donated cash should be wasted when much of the damage hoving into view could be avoided by reconstruction.

Seems a massive head scratch to me!

Otherwise its "I'll donate £5million to save every club," then most of that gets hoovered up by Hearts

They don't do irony :greengrin £9million unfinished stand and relegation :greengrin not a penny wasted .

I doubt very much doctor jambo is a real doctor but with logic like that I am certain he's a real jambo.

[HFC 0-7]

How does continuing donations from the same people affect financial fair play?

[Sammy7nil]

How does continuing donations from the same people affect financial fair play?

I think they will claim it was spent on infrastructure not on going costs.

[CropleyWasGod]

How does continuing donations from the same people affect financial fair play?

It doesn't.

We don't have FFP in Scotland.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

It doesn't.

We don't have FFP in Scotland.

As long as the old firm are kicking around I can't ever see Scotland adopting the FFP model unfortunately.

[CropleyWasGod]

As long as the old firm are kicking around I can't ever see Scotland adopting the FFP model unfortunately.

Conversely, though, they (and all other teams who qualify for Europe) are subject to UEFA's FFP rules.

[brog]

Cheers B

I recall something like a £3m payment from FOH and another £3m from "wealthy supporters". That does leave a bit of shortfall.

There was actually a total of £3.25m donated last year but £2.25m of that was specifically identified as going towards the cost of the new stand.

[Eyrie]

There was actually a total of £3.25m donated last year but £2.25m of that was specifically identified as going towards the cost of the new stand.

Would the other £1m be the Save Hearts In Trouble money?

[Caversham Green]

Would the other £1m be the Save Hearts In Trouble money?

There was £1m donated in each of the last two years (2018 and 2019) specifically towards staff costs - I think it was probably funding Naismith's wages.

Edit: just realised I misread your question. Save Hearts In Trouble are a related party and the £1m in question isn't mentioned in the Related Party note so it would seem it didn't come from them.

[Eyrie]

There was £1m donated in each of the last two years (2018 and 2019) specifically towards staff costs - I think it was probably funding Naismith's wages.

Edit: just realised I misread your question. Save Hearts In Trouble are a related party and the £1m in question isn't mentioned in the Related Party note so it would seem it didn't come from them.

Thanks.

Interesting one to try to unpick.

[Sammy7nil]

It doesn't.

We don't have FFP in Scotland.


As long as the old firm are kicking around I can't ever see Scotland adopting the FFP model unfortunately.

what about UEFA could they play in Europe?

[nonshinyfinish]

what about UEFA could they play in Europe?

Under UEFA's FFP, there is a limit to the losses you are allowed to make (so you can't just rack up massive debts and have a friendly 'bank' repeatedly write them off) and a limit to how much directors/boards/owners are allowed to invest (so an oil baron can't endlessly pour money in).

It's not designed to level the playing field for smaller clubs, it's designed to protect the interests of the existing super-rich clubs. It should stop the mega-rich pouring billions into a previously unknown team (or at least make it slower and more difficult), but because it's meant to keep existing elite clubs sweet, the limits mentioned above are high enough that it's essentially irrelevant in Scottish football. The amounts the benefactor(s) have given to Hearts wouldn't even touch the sides. I don't know enough about The Rangers' convoluted finances to judge if they would ever run the risk of breaching FFP. Celtic, AFAIK, pretty much just spend the money they earn so they'd be entirely unaffected.

From UEFA (https://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html):


3) Are clubs no longer allowed to have losses?

To be exact, clubs can spend up to €5million more than they earn per assessment period (three years). However it can exceed this level to a certain limit, if it is entirely covered by a direct contribution/payment from the club owner(s) or a related party. This prevents the build-up of unsustainable debt.

The limits are:
• €45m for assessment periods 2013/14 and 2014/15
• €30m for assessment periods 2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18

In order to promote investment in stadiums, training facilities, youth development and women’s football (from 2015), all such costs are excluded from the break-even calculation.

As someone mentioned above, money spent on infrastructure isn't counted.

[A Hi-Bee]

As the longest ever relegation battle continues, hertz seem to be unable to realise that they have now been relegated and are now a second division team (Championship=old second division, which I much prefer)
Dont care what the new money man does as that will be between him and the SPL, sure they will come to some arrangement that will help the clubs that need the finance the most, that dont include the hertz as they are minted.

:thumbsup:

[hibbyfraelibby]

As the longest ever relegation battle continues, hertz seem to be unable to realise that they have now been relegated and are now a second division team (Championship=old second division, which I much prefer)
Dont care what the new money man does as that will be between him and the SPL, sure they will come to some arrangement that will help the clubs that need the finance the most, that dont include the hertz as they are minted.

:thumbsup:

Congrats on getting the 13000th post😈

[Dashing Bob S]

As the longest ever relegation battle continues, hertz seem to be unable to realise that they have now been relegated and are now a second division team (Championship=old second division, which I much prefer)
Dont care what the new money man does as that will be between him and the SPL, sure they will come to some arrangement that will help the clubs that need the finance the most, that dont include the hertz as they are minted.

:thumbsup:

It would be ironic but fitting regarding Budge’s blundering regime, if Hearts were to steer a pot of money towards the top division clubs that they were unable to share.

That might make some FOH donors think again about the stewardship of the club they are putting money into.

Have to hand it to the queen of hearts, she constantly finds new and inventive ways to mess up an already bad situation even more.

I think *****ing away more of their funds to mount a legal challenge might be the next route to go down.

[GreenCastle]

Had to go past their unfinished main stand today for work and what a mess.

Looks dated already. Bird crap on windows, glass looking dirty and the interior just looks cheap.

I honestly can’t believe they spent so much on that stand - I would be asking serious questions...plus you can tell the fit out still isn’t finished inside !!

[Kojock]

Here’s another belter from across the road. Who exactly do they think they are 😂


colinzeal
Does anyone think Sky might be offering better terms on repayments if Hearts are still in the league?

Could be something that could sway clubs, if it was the case.

[jacomo]

Are they doon yet?

Edit: of course they are, but the Jambos are having trouble accepting reality.

[bingo70]

Are they doon yet?

Yes

[007]

Had to go past their unfinished main stand today for work and what a mess.

Looks dated already. Bird crap on windows, glass looking dirty and the interior just looks cheap.

I honestly can’t believe they spent so much on that stand - I would be asking serious questions...plus you can tell the fit out still isn’t finished inside !!

Levein must have been demoted to bird crap cleaner offer so it hasn't been cleaned for a few days.

[The Spaceman]

They have started a thread on JKB about Hibs being relegated 6 years ago.

They have justbeen relegated. This is for the second time in this period. Enjoy your relegation you losers.

[Hibernian Verse]

They have started a thread on JKB about Hibs being relegated 6 years ago.

They have justbeen relegated. This is for the second time in this period. Enjoy your relegation you losers.Why are you stalking Kickback?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[JohnM1875]

Here’s another belter from across the road. Who exactly do they think they are 😂


colinzeal
Does anyone think Sky might be offering better terms on repayments if Hearts are still in the league?

Could be something that could sway clubs, if it was the case.

They are so delusional it's bordering on worrying.

I occasionally take a peek over there and the percentage of folk going on about how huge and important they are really sums them up as a support.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Are they doon yet?


What do you mean "yet"? Surely you mean "still"