The generic Hearts thread

[007]

This a is cracker from keek back



In season 2014-15, Blackpool v Huddersfield was abandoned. They could not get the rescheduled game played before the completion of the season so the EFL awarded the match a score line of 0-0 and both teams got a point.

This is something we should consider for all of the outstanding league fixtures this season. A point per game is more than we are currently averaging (0.8 points per game) and would get us up to 31 points. It gives us a chance at least.


😂😂😂😂


Has to be a Hibee at the wind up surely? They can't bw that thick can they?

Get him on Budge's task force, pronto.

[jacomo]

This a is cracker from keek back



In season 2014-15, Blackpool v Huddersfield was abandoned. They could not get the rescheduled game played before the completion of the season so the EFL awarded the match a score line of 0-0 and both teams got a point.

This is something we should consider for all of the outstanding league fixtures this season. A point per game is more than we are currently averaging (0.8 points per game) and would get us up to 31 points. It gives us a chance at least.


😂😂😂😂


Absolutely amazing.

Budge should definitely propose this to the task force... actually, she needs to call up Nicky Campbell again and announce this plan to the world.

I think I would actually die laughing.

[Bostonhibby]

I’m struggling with this one big time.

Any chance of making it a multiple choice question?It depends what you mean by bottom, Mrs Budge sees that as technically incorrect, how can you be bottom when you've spent so much money?

The answers probably Hamilton or St Mirren who haven't spent anything like Hearts.

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[04Sauzee]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

[04Sauzee]

Our Daniel had this to say



"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

[Kaiser1962]

This a is cracker from keek back


In season 2014-15, Blackpool v Huddersfield was abandoned. They could not get the rescheduled game played before the completion of the season so the EFL awarded the match a score line of 0-0 and both teams got a point.

This is something we should consider for all of the outstanding league fixtures this season. A point per game is more than we are currently averaging (0.8 points per game) and would get us up to 31 points. It gives us a chance at least.



😂😂😂😂

Quite, quite brilliant. Made my day.

[PatHead]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Find it odd he only speaks to her every few days. Surely they should speak daily?

[Waxy]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Kinda like she’s talking to a brick wall?

[hibbyfraelibby]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Nobody loves her do we care? Thought not

[Kojock]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Direct from the guy who ran off back to Germany with no intention of coming back 😂

[jacomo]

Find it odd he only speaks to her every few days. Surely they should speak daily?


Maybe your Daniel has ‘good’ days and ‘bad’ days?

Maybe he meant to call her on Monday but then when he woke up realised it was Thursday?

[mixumatosis]

Our Daniel had this to say

So, conceding there that the efforts being made are to save Hearts from relegation, not for any higher purpose.

Also, who else was he expecting to be fighting for them ?

[mim]

Stendel's not as daft as I thought.
He's worked out that there is not much point in flying back to Edinburgh to make some phone calls. :aok:
Who'd have thunk it?? :na na:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Maybe your Daniel has ‘good’ days and ‘bad’ days?

Maybe he meant to call her on Monday but then when he woke up realised it was Thursday?



You can tell the good and the bad days by the colour of his nose...

[JeMeSouviens]

Absolutely amazing.

Budge should definitely propose this to the task force... actually, she needs to call up Nicky Campbell again and announce this plan to the world.

I think I would actually die laughing.

Hey, don't knock it - us going above St Johnstone would be the only move. :wink:

[jacomo]

Hey, don't knock it - us going above St Johnstone would be the only move. :wink:


I think it’s a cracking idea.

Budge really should announce it as her preferred plan ASAP. She should call a virtual press conference and really get some momentum behind her plan.

[Joe6-2]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Banderson still thinks it’s a 15 strong panel

[Bostonhibby]

Our Daniel had this to sayIf only Wetherspoons was open, he could have met her for a couple of large breakfasts and pints of Stella, just to help overcome the apparent loneliness if nothing else as I can't see him being much use in said fight, unless it's pavement dancing after closing time.

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[dchibs]

Hey, don't knock it - us going above St Johnstone would be the only move. :wink:

Good shout :thumbsup:

[Ronniekirk]

Nicola saying social distancing measures in place probably till end of year and possibly into next year
No large gatherings

So unless something changes it’s hard to see football as we know it back this year
Be interesting to see what EUEFA decide this Afternoon
There is a danger people bury there head in the Sand and just keep saying let’s put off making a decision and hope



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[007]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUn

Confirms she is probably in the wrong in that case. Certainly can't see her doing a Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men. If anything she's probably turned more against her than for her, with some of her comments.

I think she made a massive mistake saying she wanted a temporary reconstruction before their discussions even started. It's obviously purely about saving Hearts and nothing to do with what she thinks is best for Scottish football. Won't be surprised to see her flip-flop to permanent reconstruction when she realises that's what most of her group want. She'll then be scuppered when she has to convince the Premiership teams and Sky.

[Future17]

Banderson still thinks it’s a 15 strong panel

Is it not?

[grunt]

"I spoke with Ann a few days ago and she said her feeling is that she is fighting a little bit alone against everybody." | @BarryAnderson_

https://t.co/5ISEwAugUnI read this and assumed that Ann was complaining to Daniel about him being in Germany. "You're over there and I'm here all alone trying to handle this ..."?

[oneone73]

Is it not?

It is. The St Mirren chairman joined after the first session.

[StevieC]

It is. The St Mirren chairman joined after the first session.

Perfect, just need Celtic and Albert .. I mean Dundee .. to join after the next one and the outcome is complete.

[Joe6-2]

Is it not?

Didn’t it go down to 14 when LD saw the folly of it?

[hibees 7062]

Didn’t it go down to 14 when LD saw the folly of it?
St Mirren chairman replaced her

[mutley]

Just had a wee peek over there, jeezo - So they are pretty sure that they are going down, BUT they will sue for £4 Million in damages, win that , and every other team will go pop but they will survive . I wonder if they actually believe any of their own crap


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[Aldo]

Just had a wee peek over there, jeezo - So they are pretty sure that they are going down, BUT they will sue for £4 Million in damages, win that , and every other team will go pop but they will survive . I wonder if they actually believe any of their own crap


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Ma sides?? £4 million quid! I’d love to see on what grounds.

Cmon let’s get this done!


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[04Sauzee]

They have a plan

Boof

Posted 25 minutes ago
Take the expulsion.



Empty the dross form the squad - article 12 'em if need be.



Win the lawsuit for £4M damages.



Wait to be invited back into the top tier when half a dozen clubs go tits up with loadsa cash to rebuild our squad.

[jacomo]

Just had a wee peek over there, jeezo - So they are pretty sure that they are going down, BUT they will sue for £4 Million in damages, win that , and every other team will go pop but they will survive . I wonder if they actually believe any of their own crap


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It’s a cunning plan. After ripping off Lithuanian pensioners last time, they are now going to bankrupt Wuhan market traders.

[jacomo]

They have a plan

Boof

Posted 25 minutes ago
Take the expulsion.



Empty the dross form the squad - article 12 'em if need be.



Win the lawsuit for £4M damages.



Wait to be invited back into the top tier when half a dozen clubs go tits up with loadsa cash to rebuild our squad.


I’d invite Edinburgh City before them.

[Tug Wilson]

They have a plan

Boof

Posted 25 minutes ago
Take the expulsion.



Empty the dross form the squad - article 12 'em if need be.



Win the lawsuit for £4M damages.



Wait to be invited back into the top tier when half a dozen clubs go tits up with loadsa cash to rebuild our squad.

Yet still they don't understand why none of the other clubs give a **** about them.

They are a very strange breed.

[Kaiser1962]

Just had a wee peek over there, jeezo - So they are pretty sure that they are going down, BUT they will sue for £4 Million in damages, win that , and every other team will go pop but they will survive . I wonder if they actually believe any of their own crap


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They seem to think they'll be invited back when all the "diddy clubs perish" having won a court case for £4m and emptied all their dross under "article 12" but selectively keeping the players they want.

Is there not something in the UEFA constition forbidding taking the parent association to court?

[Seveno]

According to the deluded ones, they are not being relegated but expelled. The hurt:greengrin

[Since452]

The deluded gimps would have been screaming for the league to be over and St Mirren to be relegated if they'd beaten them. **** them.

[grunt]

Well.


One club taking a £4m hit whilst no one else suffers is laughable.

[jacomo]

Well.


Amazing.

Yeah, no other club is suffering right enough.

[007]

According to the deluded ones, they are not being relegated but expelled. The hurt:greengrin

Relegation is too good for them. If we're expelling them then we might as well put them down another couple of leagues and that way Partick and Stranraer can stay where they are. No point in 3 clubs suffering when 1 could set self-interest aside and do what's best for Scottish football. They might win some games in League 2.

[007]

Just had a wee peek over there, jeezo - So they are pretty sure that they are going down, BUT they will sue for £4 Million in damages, win that , and every other team will go pop but they will survive . I wonder if they actually believe any of their own crap


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I hope they try. They'd soon find they're no longer members of the SPFL. Wonder who'd join them in a breakaway league.

[Bostonhibby]

£4m might just be enough to finish the megastand, all they have to do is find the costs to run the case then win. If indeed it's possible for them to sue the association they are a member of.

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[007]

£4m might just be enough to finish the megastand, all they have to do is find the costs to run the case then win. If indeed it's possible for them to sue the association they are a member of.

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I'm sure I heard on the radio a week or so ago it isn't possible which is why I hope they try to.

Mind you, it might have been Sportsound and I don't think they can be relied upon to get their facts right.

[jacomo]

Relegation is too good for them. If we're expelling them then we might as well put them down another couple of leagues and that way Partick and Stranraer can stay where they are. No point in 3 clubs suffering when 1 could set self-interest aside and do what's best for Scottish football. They might win some games in League 2.


Heroic Hearts! What a finale to the TV doc... poignant scenes as Hearts volunteer to sacrifice themselves for the wider good of the scottish game.

[Ronniekirk]

Heroic Hearts! What a finale to the TV doc... poignant scenes as Hearts volunteer to sacrifice themselves for the wider good of the scottish game.

The Directs Cut snd Outtakes version could be Comedy Gold


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[Onion]

They have a plan

Boof

Posted 25 minutes ago
Take the expulsion.



Empty the dross form the squad - article 12 'em if need be.



Win the lawsuit for £4M damages.



Wait to be invited back into the top tier when half a dozen clubs go tits up with loadsa cash to rebuild our squad.


And on the other side of town, Hibs show support for the NHS :greengrin

[jax67]

I hope they try. They'd soon find they're no longer members of the SPFL. Wonder who'd join them in a breakaway league.

Shhhhhh. Banking on it.

[Saint Hibee]

They've obviously employed Baldrick in the 'cunning plans' department.

[green day]

Whoever was the genius that came up with "sue the SPFL" doesnt really understand the finances.

Its not like they have a pot of cash there, and hence Hearts would be asking every other club (including themselves) to stump up for their imprudent financial gambling.

Well thought out strategy lads :aok:

[Bostonhibby]

Whoever was the genius that came up with "sue the SPFL" doesnt really understand the finances.

Its not like they have a pot of cash there, and hence Hearts would be asking every other club (including themselves) to stump up for their imprudent financial gambling.

Well thought out strategy lads :aok:

Sure it's been raised before but there's at least a question about whether Hearts who are a member of the SPFL body corporate can actually sue themselves, mind you they thought they owed multi millions to themselves and look how that worked out.

Will make good viewing when their car crash documentary is launched. Probably taking legal action to stop that as well.

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[PatHead]

Sure it's been raised before but there's at least a question about whether Hearts who are a member of the SPFL body corporate can actually sue themselves, mind you they thought they owed multi millions to themselves and look how that worked out.

Will make good viewing when their car crash documentary is launched. Probably taking legal action to stop that as well.

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I must admit that I am worried that the filming will have stopped just now. The funniest bit might be missing.

[007]

Shhhhhh. Banking on it.

👍🤫🙂

[Ozyhibby]

Whoever was the genius that came up with "sue the SPFL" doesnt really understand the finances.

Its not like they have a pot of cash there, and hence Hearts would be asking every other club (including themselves) to stump up for their imprudent financial gambling.

Well thought out strategy lads :aok:

According to their last accounts there was a £3m shortfall in their finances, is that correct?
And relegation is estimated to be another £3m hit?
If that’s true then we should be seeing some major cost cutting at Tynecastle very soon.


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[Since452]

Wow. Just had a look on kickback. Couldn't resist the urge. One of them raging because they volunteered for WW1 and now they're going to get relegated. Genuinely. Somebody posted that. Just wow.

[Carheenlea]

I must admit that I am worried that the filming will have stopped just now. The funniest bit might be missing.

I really doubt this will ever see the light of day. Hearts will not want their shambolic season serialised and mocked and laughed at by the whole of Scotland and if Budge is trying to look for ways of wriggling out of relegation then you can be sure she will be looking at ways of stopping this document being broadcast.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already been canned.

[Since452]

I really doubt this will ever see the light of day. Hearts will not want their shambolic season serialised and mocked and laughed at by the whole of Scotland and if Budge is trying to look for ways of wriggling out of relegation then you can be sure she will be looking at ways of stopping this document being broadcast.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already been canned.

Unless they're contractually obliged to release it

[Ozyhibby]

I really doubt this will ever see the light of day. Hearts will not want their shambolic season serialised and mocked and laughed at by the whole of Scotland and if Budge is trying to look for ways of wriggling out of relegation then you can be sure she will be looking at ways of stopping this document being broadcast.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already been canned.

Contracts will have been signed. The production company will have incurred large costs filming this. They will make sure it gets aired.


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[007]

I really doubt this will ever see the light of day. Hearts will not want their shambolic season serialised and mocked and laughed at by the whole of Scotland and if Budge is trying to look for ways of wriggling out of relegation then you can be sure she will be looking at ways of stopping this document being broadcast.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already been canned.

They'd have to compensate the production company so either way they'll lose out. Along with suing the SPFL it'd be a couple of creative new ways to waste the supporters' donations.

[Kojock]

I must admit that I am worried that the filming will have stopped just now. The funniest bit might be missing.

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

[PatHead]

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

At last something to look forward to!

[jax67]

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

This is going to be fantastic,
indeed the eternal gift

[weecounty hibby]

Maybe the tarts will just take them to court about it to get it stopped. From what I have heard they have a lawyer who is a cross between Petrocelli and Saul Goodman with a bit of Donald Findlay thrown in for a bit of staunchness!! ****ing morons.

[Carheenlea]

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

Well, this is good news indeed :agree:

[PatHead]

Maybe the tarts will just take them to court about it to get it stopped. From what I have heard they have a lawyer who is a cross between Petrocelli and Saul Goodman with a bit of Donald Findlay thrown in for a bit of staunchness!! ****ing morons.

As long as they don't get Lionel Hutz.

[Kojock]

This is going to be fantastic,
indeed the eternal gift

The DVD box set will be out in time for Christmas and available from the Hibs shop. Lol

[007]

The box set DVD set will be available by Christmas and available from the Hibs shop. Lol

It'll run Time For Heroes close on sale numbers.

[weecounty hibby]

As long as they don't get Lionel Hutz.

He would fit in perfectly at the tarts, I'm sure their surgeon I'd Dr Nick Riviera as well

[Newry Hibs]

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

Anyone know why they wanted / agreed to this in the first place? I don't think they were in a position to have a genuine stab at the title.
I can imagine Sunderland wanted to document their heroic return to the Premiership in their Netflix series.

[007]

Anyone know why they wanted / agreed to this in the first place? I don't think they were in a position to have a genuine stab at the title.
I can imagine Sunderland wanted to document their heroic return to the Premiership in their Netflix series.

To save time. They had a queue of clubs wanting to go and see how a football club should be run so decided to do an instructional video for them.

[Bostonhibby]

I must admit that I am worried that the filming will have stopped just now. The funniest bit might be missing.Oh no, please no, I was really looking forward to seeing the Hearts famous recreation of the Harold Lloyd clock scene as they get nearer relegation deadline day and Mrs doctor Budge's committee are still trying to decide whether to open or close the meeting room blinds.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/6cb4505a4cd0461d87da3befa0e210ff.jpg

[jacomo]

Anyone know why they wanted / agreed to this in the first place? I don't think they were in a position to have a genuine stab at the title.
I can imagine Sunderland wanted to document their heroic return to the Premiership in their Netflix series.


It’s Budge. Such fools are easily flattered.

Same reason Trump allowed so many journalists access to the White House in his early days to write behind-the-scenes accounts of his presidency, until even he realised the books were making him look like even more of an arse.

[StevesFamau5]

The Hearts are saved by Lionel Hutzhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/d6854f397f6323292871ea77f790aa1e.jpg

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[Bostonhibby]

The Hearts are saved by Lionel Hutzhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/d6854f397f6323292871ea77f790aa1e.jpg

Sent from my VOG-L09 using TapatalkWasn't he also the joint accountant, project manager and architect for the megastand?

Or was that Saul Goodman?

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[007]

The Hearts are saved by Lionel Hutzhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/d6854f397f6323292871ea77f790aa1e.jpg

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Started wearing a cape and her pants outside her tights has she?

[The 90+2]

Statement o’clock.

[jax67]

The DVD box set will be out in time for Christmas and available from the Hibs shop. Lol

😁👏

[Simkin911]

Statement o’clock.

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update

[04Sauzee]

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update

Reduce your salary or evoke article 12 and have no salary at all.

[grunt]

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update

"Hundreds of thousands of supporters"!

[Bishop Hibee]

"Hundreds of thousands of supporters"!

400,000 to be exact. In other news, drink toilet duck and cure Covid19.

[The Modfather]

Wasn't he also the joint accountant, project manager and architect for the megastand?

Or was that Saul Goodman?

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No, it was the Monorail guy that built the new stand.

[Aldo]

Reduce your salary or evoke article 12 and have no salary at all.

O ya boy it must be nearly wages time!

So in a nutshell they will either take a cut or get nowt. They must be totally ****ed


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[007]

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update

Not like them to shaft people out of money due to them. S'pose at least this time they're giving advanced warning. Probably think that makes it okay.

Can't take on debt which will burden the club in the future....(and prevent being able to spend on transfer fees).

No doubt their fans will be happy they're on the shaft again.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Contracts will have been signed. The production company will have incurred large costs filming this. They will make sure it gets aired.
Unless the building containing all the film is mysteriously burnt down, along with some crocodiles

[04Sauzee]

Unless the building containing all the film is mysteriously burnt down, along with some crocodiles

Brilliant 😂

[007]

There's next seasons shirt logo for them. "Thank you clause 12". I would've done the Photoshopping if I was any good on it.

[jacomo]

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update


Oh dear. Still no agreement on player wages and Budge once again trying to use public threats to influence players’ decisions.

And no word about the task force (next week’s payroll obviously an overwhelming concern).

It’s really not going well for them is it?

[Billy Whizz]

She’s playing a dangerous game, but I’m sure the players know they have no money

If they don’t take the cut, they could go into admin, so a lot to weigh up for them too

[Heisenberg]

Ann Budge has dealt with this situation impeccably. She really is a true trailblazer and visionary of the Scottish game.

😂😂😂

[Aldo]

She’s playing a dangerous game, but I’m sure the players know they have no money

If they don’t take the cut, they could go into admin, so a lot to weigh up for them too

It is but again she’s out spouting about it and pressurising the players to do it or threatening C12 in the public domain. It’s like it’s their fault they are on inflated wages.

Going to be a fun week imho!


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[Bostonhibby]

She’s playing a dangerous game, but I’m sure the players know they have no money

If they don’t take the cut, they could go into admin, so a lot to weigh up for them tooIt's all very strange because I'm sure I read somewhere that a swivel eyed half wit follower of the poppy thieves had done some forensic analysis of Hibs accounts and we were running out of money first.

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[Kaiser1962]

Oh dear. Still no agreement on player wages and Budge once again trying to use public threats to influence players’ decisions.

And no word about the task force (next week’s payroll obviously an overwhelming concern).

It’s really not going well for them is it?

Do they have to notify the SFA/SPFL that they cannot meet their wages? And from that statement its pretty clear this is not a deferral, the players have lost the money. Either take what we offer or your suspended basically, at a time when no one is hiring. Whist I accept they are not alone, and God forbid we can avoid such a scenario, this is brutal. Is there no insurance for such things? You just know others will be watching closely.

[BroxburnHibee]

So they didnt even have 2 months wages in the bank

[Bostonhibby]

Do they have to notify the SFA/SPFL that they cannot meet their wages? And from that statement its pretty clear this is not a deferral, the players have lost the money. Either take what we offer or your suspended basically, at a time when no one is hiring. Whist I accept they are not alone, and God forbid we can avoid such a scenario, this is brutal. Is there no insurance for such things? You just know others will be watching closely.Surely the SPFL and SFA could quickly set up a Task Force to look at changing the rules so that one club doesn't have to comply with this rule for one season?

I can think of the ideal person to lead this group and there's every chance she will have agreed a group mission statement before the end of the year before moving onto sorting out group members uniform colours.

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[Aldo]

It's all very strange because I'm sure I read somewhere that a swivel eyed half wit follower of the poppy thieves had done some forensic analysis of Hibs accounts and we were running out of money first.

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You are correct BH.

They are ok but ourselves and Aberdeen will be first to go!


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[jingler1954]

Unless the building containing all the film is mysteriously burnt down, along with some crocodiles

Hail the King.

[Bostonhibby]

Unless the building containing all the film is mysteriously burnt down, along with some crocodiles[emoji23]

The crocs will be safe as I heard they moved out earlier when the view of Edinburgh Castle they were promised failed to materialise.


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[Keith_M]

Yip - another one today it seems...

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-update


She still hasn't agreed wage cuts with the players?


"In my conversations with the playing squad, I outlined that the most judicious approach for the club – considering all available information

– would be to implement a temporary reduction in player salary, with a proposed percentage based on earnings ranging from 10% to 30%."

...

"Having paid the players’ wages in full for March, I have written to them today to request the formal notification of their acceptance of the temporary wage cut proposed in order that we can process salaries next week.

I remain hopeful that the players will accept for the reasons outlined above, as the only viable alternative is that their contracts remain suspended under Clause 12 of the standard SPFL contract which means that they will not receive any wages during the period of suspension."

[Ozyhibby]

Unless the building containing all the film is mysteriously burnt down, along with some crocodiles

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

She’s playing a dangerous game, but I’m sure the players know they have no money

If they don’t take the cut, they could go into admin, so a lot to weigh up for them too

Players wages are football debt. They will always get paid eventually unless Hearts are liquidated and there is no Phoenix club.


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[Ozyhibby]

Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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[Greenworld]

Surely the SPFL and SFA could quickly set up a Task Force to look at changing the rules so that one club doesn't have to comply with this rule for one season?

I can think of the ideal person to lead this group and there's every chance she will have agreed a group mission statement before the end of the year before moving onto sorting out group members uniform colours.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkThat can be done but requires a 13 votes to 12 from the premier clubs

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[green day]

Feel sorry for the lower earning players if they are stiffed by Hearts.

Feel vaguely sorry for the few Hearts fans I know well, as they are decent guys.

I note that Budge refers to the "hundreds of thousands of Hearts fans". Even in this situation, they still feel compelled to tell us how BIG they are 😂.

I have zero sympathy for Hearts FC, they have overspent all of my adult life, and if this is the (massive and terminal) payback then so be it.

[Green_one]

Oh dear. Still no agreement on player wages and Budge once again trying to use public threats to influence players’ decisions.

And no word about the task force (next week’s payroll obviously an overwhelming concern).

It’s really not going well for them is it?

Surely the Hearts site has been hacked. That is not a statement of the most financially secure club in Scotland. The maroon pound must have plummeted in value.

Maybe she is signalling that they are deffo relegated and cream puffed.

Wonder what the players are saying.

[weecounty hibby]

Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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Utter bull**** you hobo, peg selling, spoon burning vermin. Jealous beyond belief!! I read what kiwidug***** had to say and they are the most financially secure club in world football. Hibs on the other hand are about to go tits up. I got one an very very worried. Aye worried about what I should have for tea tonight and also a but concerned that their Daniel will have an escape clause from stalag lift XIII!!

[WhileTheChief..]

Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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Yup. And yet their fans are still saying plenty of Scottish clubs will go to the wall ignoring the fact that they are prob more at risk than any other top flight club.

Their thread discussing the statement is all about Budge being a genius. It’s mental.

[SQHib]

Reduce your salary or evoke article 12 and have no salary at all.


Yeah but it took the "chairman" 868 words to say that lol - and to hint that they can't possibly pass control over to FOH with football debt - what lot of crap - pay your players what you agreed to - thats not a debt !

[Aldo]

Players wages are football debt. They will always get paid eventually unless Hearts are liquidated and there is no Phoenix club.


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Am I right in saying if they cannot pay their staff wages they are insolvent??

At the end of the day she runs/owns the club and the blame lies firmly with her!

Wonder how many players will be ‘claused?’


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[Bostonhibby]

That can be done but requires a 13 votes to 12 from the premier clubs

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using TapatalkOkay so they form another Task Force to change the rules to require 13 votes to 12, can you think of anyone with the talent to co-ordinate all these Task Forces to deliver before Hearts have to pay their next wage bill...........

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[CropleyWasGod]

Am I right in saying if they cannot pay their staff wages they are insolvent??

At the end of the day she runs/owns the club and the blame lies firmly with her!

Wonder how many players will be ‘claused?’


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One of the tests for insolvency is whether you can meet your debts as they fall due.

So aye 😀

[hibbyfraelibby]

"I cannot - and will not, in good conscience - leave the club in a position again where football debt is left as a 'legacy' for those who follow."

That sounds very much like she has thrown in the towel. She doesn't have the cash to pay the wages next week so she is desperately looking at ways to hide the debt for the soon to be appointed adminstrators.

She missed the furlough claim cut off date so she is lumbered with the lot. As salary is paid in arrears a failure to pay wages next week, even if she invokes C12, and its dubious applicability, she still owes them a months pay or indeed the team shortly to be called the "Team Previously Known As Hearts" will find themselves climbing back via the 5th, if not 6th tier of Scottish footballs new pyramid with a points penalty to boot.

[Aldo]

One of the tests for insolvency is whether you can meet your debts as they fall due.

So aye [emoji3]

Cheers CWG. However will this Clause 12 excuse be a way of preventing this??

I thought I read somewhere that UEFA would not take lightly trans who did this to players??


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[truehibernian]

Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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It's an absolutely desperate statement Ozy - not only are they in bad shape financially she has effectively hung the players out to dry too by giving a 'take it or leave it' demand.

She's now also revealed the real reason for reconstruction - self interest and never in a million years for the 'good of the Scottish game' :agree:

Should not be in the least bit shocked either, it's the way they've run their club (financially) for decades and now expect others to bail them out their mess. Shameless as ever :agree:

Did KP ever confirm whether Hibs are one of the few clubs who are insured ?

[Waxy]

Reckon its fake.Remember the email to agents just last month stating they had cash to spend. This is a last ditch shot at getting everyone to feel sorry for them. No working for me.

[truehibernian]

Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.

I've been present when they've been filming some game time footage and trust me they were social distancing regularly well before Covid :greengrin a couple of the 3/4 team crew don't seem to care much for their current assignment :greengrin

[ACLeith]

One of the tests for insolvency is whether you can meet your debts as they fall due.

So aye 😀

So if the wages have to be in the players’ bank accounts by next Thursday the wages run will probably be Tuesday. She will have known about this for many weeks so using the just in time, hold a gun to the head school of negotiating. Her qualifications must have been from the Trump Business School (failing business department).

[linlithgowhibbie]

The fact that their season tickets are on sale might just give them enough to cover their wages this month unfortunately!

[bringbackbenny]

It's an absolutely desperate statement Ozy - not only are they in bad shape financially she has effectively hung the players out to dry too by giving a 'take it or leave it' demand.

She's now also revealed the real reason for reconstruction - self interest and never in a million years for the 'good of the Scottish game' :agree:

Should not be in the least bit shocked either, it's the way they've run their club (financially) for decades and now expect others to bail them out their mess. Shameless as ever :agree:

Did KP ever confirm whether Hibs are one of the few clubs who are insured ?

Odious behaviour. solely interested in saving her skin and a dubious 'legacy'. and all as a direct consequence of her personal gross incompetence.

[chasitup]

It's all very strange because I'm sure I read somewhere that a swivel eyed half wit follower of the poppy thieves had done some forensic analysis of Hibs accounts and we were running out of money first.

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Swivel eyed, I like that. I'll try to use it more in conversation.

[truehibernian]

The fact that their season tickets are on sale might just give them enough to cover their wages this month unfortunately!

They'll need more than season tickets LH, I reckon they'll need to purchase more face paint, self raising flour, and chip fryers to get themselves out of the mess they are clearly in :greengrin Mind, with social distancing they'll also need longer paint brushes so a trip to B&Q is on the cards too :aok:

[Billy Whizz]

The fact that their season tickets are on sale might just give them enough to cover their wages this month unfortunately!

And they should be due some furlough money for April and March soon as well
Not sure who they furloughed though

[CapitalGreen]

Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

[Bostonhibby]

Swivel eyed, I like that. I'll try to use it more in conversation.Swivel eyed loons.

Credit to call me Dave Cameron.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

They'll need more than season tickets LH, I reckon they'll need to purchase more face paint, self raising flour, and chip fryers to get themselves out of the mess they are clearly in :greengrin Mind, with social distancing they'll also need longer paint brushes so a trip to B&Q is on the cards too :aok:

They are in deep trouble...you cannot get flour in the shops for love nor money

[A Hi-Bee]

Don't Budge has found the old Santa Clawes 12 solution, what a shower they are just get them doon.

[007]

The fact that their season tickets are on sale might just give them enough to cover their wages this month unfortunately!

They'll be using the season ticket money for transfer fees.

Maybe if they hadn't wasted money left, right and centre they wouldn't have ended up in this embarrassing position.

[hibbyfraelibby]

And they should be due some furlough money for April and March soon as well
Not sure who they furloughed though

They have to pay the wages first themselves before they get the furlough money back from Government but they didn't furlough the players in time for the cut off

[A Hi-Bee]

Surely the SPFL and SFA could quickly set up a Task Force to look at changing the rules so that one club doesn't have to comply with this rule for one season?

I can think of the ideal person to lead this group and there's every chance she will have agreed a group mission statement before the end of the year before moving onto sorting out group members uniform colours.

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Perhaps we could do as the Germans have done with the top richest clubs forming a solidarity fund and then dividing this out to the poorer clubs?
Just saying like, as I cannot think of anything else or way to help our neighbours at this trying time.
Ha,ha,ha, get them to **** doon and we dont need to hear them greeting much more.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Caversham Green]

When Clause 12 refers to suspension does it mean the player doesn't get paid at all for the suspension period or does it mean that payment is deferred, either by an extension of the term of the contract or by payment in lieu? I think it must be the latter as reducing the total value of the contract doesn't seem like a fair provision.

[CropleyWasGod]

When Clause 12 refers to suspension does it mean the player doesn't get paid at all for the suspension period or does it mean that payment is deferred, either by an extension of the term of the contract or by payment in lieu? I think it must be the latter as reducing the total value of the contract doesn't seem like a fair provision.

“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

To me, it looks like "this agreement" (the contract, presumably) is not enforceable while the game is suspended. In other words, a player may have a 3 year contract, but that is irrelevant for the period of the suspension. He gets paid nothing, and there's nothing to say that period will be tacked on at some future date. The last bit suggests that the club "might" make it up, but it isn't compulsory.

[nonshinyfinish]

“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

To me, it looks like "this agreement" (the contract, presumably) is not enforceable while the game is suspended. In other words, a player may have a 3 year contract, but that is irrelevant for the period of the suspension. He gets paid nothing, and there's nothing to say that period will be tacked on at some future date.

Anyone know what the legal basis for this is? Seems to me that the league rules wouldn't affect the enforceability of a contract between club and player, unless there's something in the contract itself saying that it's subject to the league rules?

[Caversham Green]

“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

I think that means that a two year contract which suffers a two month suspension will cease two years and two months after it started, with the full value of the contract being paid. If either party wants to terminate it earlier than a settlement would have to be agreed.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think that means that a two year contract which suffers a two month suspension will cease two years and two months after it started, with the full value of the contract being paid. If either party wants to terminate it earlier than a settlement would have to be agreed.

Diametrically opposite to me :greengrin

As ever, some lawyers will have a good earner from this.

[Ozyhibby]

Diametrically opposite to me :greengrin

As ever, some lawyers will have a good earner from this.

Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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It's an SFA decision, and they have already suspended the game.

[Sammy7nil]

Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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Surely the Hearts site has been hacked. That is not a statement of the most financially secure club in Scotland. The maroon pound must have plummeted in value.

Maybe she is signalling that they are deffo relegated and cream puffed.

Wonder what the players are saying.


Odious behaviour. solely interested in saving her skin and a dubious 'legacy'. and all as a direct consequence of her personal gross incompetence.


Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

just had a peek on way back you are all wrong it is a well thought out statement that addresses all the main points. Mrs Budgie is still well ahead of the curve and leading the way for Scottish football to follow.

[brog]

There's a couple of interesting comments there.
1. She doesn't want to leave fo9tball debt to the next owners. That almost sounds like a tacit acceptance of admin again.
2. She talks about 'remaining in Clause 12. That sounds like she's already done it & only paid March wages out of the goodness of her heart!
6 weeks since this started & it appears there's no agreements with the players. Happy days at Tiny!

[FilipinoHibs]

Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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Correct. The SPFL Board has been authorised irretrievably, to end the league now. They now have duty to call it without undue delay or they could be open to claims from players affected by C12. Not a lawyer (I knew both my parents) but if I were one employed by the players union I'd be chucking that one into the mix.

[CropleyWasGod]

Correct. The SPFL Board has been authorised irretrievably, to end the league now. They now have duty to call it without undue delay or they could be open to claims from players affected by C12. Not a lawyer (I knew both my parents) but if I were one employed by the players union I'd be chucking that one into the mix.

The SFA has already suspended the game. That's what Clause 12 relies on. Therefore clubs are entitled to use it now.

[Ozyhibby]

One thing is for sure, once this clause has been used it will be gone from all future contracts. The players won’t sign unless it is.


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[007]

Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

I'm surprised anyone thinks she is the mystery benefactor. If she'd put any money in for nothing in return we'd know all about it. There'd be statements and press releases all over the internet before the Tynecastle office junior returned from banking the cheque. (She's the last person in the country with a chequebook).

[007]

One thing is for sure, once this clause has been used it will be gone from all future contracts. The players won’t sign unless it is.


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Very true. IIRC when it first came up it was said only 1 or 2 players in Scotland had had it taken out. Makes you wonder if any of them have a solicitor go over the document for them before they sign it.

[Carheenlea]

The old Maroon pound doesn’t seem to stretch very far nowadays.

[CapitalGreen]

Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

It’s 1.20am over there Raph get yourself off to bed.

[Bostonhibby]

Perhaps we could do as the Germans have done with the top richest clubs forming a solidarity fund and then dividing this out to the poorer clubs?
Just saying like, as I cannot think of anything else or way to help our neighbours at this trying time.
Ha,ha,ha, get them to **** doon and we dont need to hear them greeting much more.

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]I've got some out of date self raising flour they could have for the next cake bake but I'd like some say in what sort of cakes they make this time around.

That battenberg one that they eventually turned into a football strip made me think they weren't worth saving the last time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/fc74b527d128a2b084f33a6fd85100f9.jpg

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[hibbyfraelibby]

The SFA has already suspended the game. That's what Clause 12 relies on. Therefore clubs are entitled to use it now.

That is not the point I am making. The league may be suspended at present but no club has exercised C12 anywhere in Scotland.

Having now been empowered to end the SPFL season they have ended the Championship, L1,L2. They defered doing so for The Prem until the UEFA meeting yesterday, at which Belguim and Scotland made representations to allow them to end their seasons as stand.

Uefa confirmed the criteria and both Scotland and Belguim meet one or both.

The League should therefore be called as is at the SPFL Board meeting on Monday. If teams use any delay to invoke C12 then the SPFL, as a members organisation, could be seen to be colluding with its member(s) to unlawfully deny a player his rightful payment or to have done so to avoid the nullification of said contract due to non-fulfilment of a material condition.

That said C12 will in itself be a contentious issue challengeable in court on the grounds that it is an unreasonably onerous condition imposed by an individual or organisation, not a party to the contract, which in effect represents s restriction to trade under EU Law, still applicable in the transition period.

Additionally in commencing a court action against say HMFC and others the pursuer can ask that the defender place bond to cover the pursuers costs should the defender lose. In light of say HMFC's parilous finance a Sherrif at stage one may make an order to that effect.

Budgie is dicing with disaster if she thinks she can go down this route without serious risk to the company (HMFC) and the SPFL wont want to be party to an action that could financially penalise its members.

Not saying it could, would or should happen just demonstating a potential scenario the PFA and its members might seek to pursue.

[Waxy]

The old Maroon pound doesn’t seem to stretch very far nowadays.

😂

[Ozyhibby]

Only 6 years on from Vlad and it looks like we are only days away from another wages default from Hearts. They will never change.


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[Barney McGrew]

So are Hertz now in the strange position where a substantial number of their players will want the league to be called and their team relegated so that clause 12 becomes null and void and they get paid in full going forward?

That will do wonders for squad unity.

[CropleyWasGod]

So are Hertz now in the strange position where a substantial number of their players will want the league to be called and their team relegated so that clause 12 becomes null and void and they get paid in full going forward?

That will do wonders for squad unity.

Clause 12 would still apply in the Championship, if that's what you mean?

[brog]

I've got some out of date self raising flour they could have for the next cake bake but I'd like some say in what sort of cakes they make this time around.

That battenberg one that they eventually turned into a football strip made me think they weren't worth saving the last time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/fc74b527d128a2b084f33a6fd85100f9.jpg

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Flour's probably worth more than Hearts right now!

[Tyler Durden]

Clause 12 would still apply in the Championship, if that's what you mean?

I’m assuming the prior post meant that at the point the season is called, it’s no longer suspended. Therefore the clause no longer applies

[Waxy]

Flour's probably worth more than Hearts right now!

Its no easy to get. My missus got some the other day, havent seen her that happy before.

[CropleyWasGod]

I’m assuming the prior post meant that at the point the season is called, it’s no longer suspended. Therefore the clause no longer applies

Gotcha.

It's suspended until the SFA says it's not, though. It's the SFA's call, not the SPFL.

[Hibby70]

Its no easy to get. My missus got some the other day, havent seen her that happy before.

Maybe it's the thought of finally getting something to rise!
😬

[NC1875]

The Gorgie Hitlers at it again. Players won’t be paid a penny unless they agree to wage cuts.

How has she been a successful businesswomen? She couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

[Jim44]

Flour's probably worth more than Hearts right now!

Who kneeds flour? :greengrin

[Waxy]

Maybe it's the thought of finally getting something to rise!
😬
😮 I wait till shes fast asleep before i creep into pit.

[Joe6-2]

Who kneeds flour? :greengrin

Some mad woman in need of dough

[hibbyfraelibby]

Gotcha.

It's suspended until the SFA says it's not, though. It's the SFA's call, not the SPFL.

I assume you mean the SFA in addition to the SPFL must call the season closed. In their case by declaring Celtic winners of the Scottish Cup?😉

[CropleyWasGod]

I assume you mean the SFA in addition to the SPFL must call the season closed. In their case by declaring Celtic winners of the Scottish Cup?😉

No :greengrin

The SFA have suspended all football until June. Even if the SPFL closed the league season tomorrow, there would still be a suspension of football.

So, until the SFA lift that suspension, Clause 12 can still be used.

[JohnMcM]

They have to pay the wages first themselves before they get the furlough money back from Government but they didn't furlough the players in time for the cut off

:faf::faf::faf:

[greenginger]

I
Worry ye not. The producer was interviewed last week and said the cameras are still rolling and complying with social distancing. He also said that there was no "Get out clause" in the contract. Initially it was to be 3 x 1hr programmes but that before the Jambo comedy festival started. They said that it was an access all areas and that they had microphones in the home dugout.


https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/inside-tynecastle-documentary

Two Rivers media are producing the comedy. “ To show the complex business of running a premier league football club “

[Tyler Durden]

No :greengrin

The SFA have suspended all football until June. Even if the SPFL closed the league season tomorrow, there would still be a suspension of football.

So, until the SFA lift that suspension, Clause 12 can still be used.

Not sure I agree that’s the case but as with many things around Scottish football governance, there is a total lack of clarity.

[Peevemor]

Dearie me ! That statement's all over the place (as usual).

She says that the players "unanimously" understand the circumstances. What a pointless thing to say, apart from trying to portray an image of unity that obviously doesn't exist.

She goes on

"I am an owner and supporter who is committed to the journey of full fan ownership"

but also

"As a fan-owned club we are unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt"

Is this another "your share certificates are in the post" episode?

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure I agree that’s the case but as with many things around Scottish football governance, there is a total lack of clarity.

I agree the general point, but Clause 12 seems clear to me on who has the power to suspend:-

“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

[Irish_Steve]

Just pinched this from Brokeback - I highlighted the bit on bold

Dear Pledger

Following today’s club statement, the Foundation board has discussed the issues arising from that and I want to pass on to you our views.

There are two over-riding and linked principles which the statement makes clear. First, that the club’s business plan is geared to ensuring the sustainability of the club through and after the impact of Covid-19. Secondly, that decisions and actions taken now should not result in football debt being passed on to the next owners of the club. These are principles which, not surprisingly, we endorse wholeheartedly. We all know the impact of the club being burdened by debt and after the years of financial support which supporters have given to the club through the Foundation, to be placed in that situation once again at the very time that fan ownership becomes a reality would be quite intolerable

We therefore welcome the chairwoman’s stance on this and are in full agreement with the proposals she has outlined. We are very grateful to those players who have already declared their support and acceptance of the temporary measures. Others need time to process and discuss the situation based on their own personal circumstances and this too we absolutely appreciate.

We would also like to pay tribute to the staff of the club. They have gone the extra mile to help its long-term future and we truly appreciate that.

Everyone involved at this great club is making concessions right now, not least the fans who – in the most challenging of circumstances - are continuing to pledge and are supporting the club in other ways such as season ticket purchases. The lessons of the past are burned deeply in the Gorgie psyche. We have all learned from them, and the board of the Foundation will always support strategies which prevent past mistakes being repeated.

Together, with some challenges, we know, we can safeguard the future of Heart of Midlothian - something the Hearts community has done in the recent past and which I have no doubt we will all do again now.

Thank you for your unbelievable support, and please stay safe and stay well.

Kind regards
Stuart Wallace
Chair, Foundation of Hearts

[Hibs4185]

Budge surely can put the £2.4 million she has just received back into the club, pay the players. Another 2 years of donations to pay her back but at least they would be doing the right thing.

Absolutely disgusting threatening the players like this. They really are a shower of *hite and I hope they get what they deserve.

To all the hearts players. Stay strong. She will cave, there is absolutely no chance she will tarnish her legacy by invoking clause 12 and the legal disputes this will cause.

[malcolm]

No :greengrin

The SFA have suspended all football until June. Even if the SPFL closed the league season tomorrow, there would still be a suspension of football.

So, until the SFA lift that suspension, Clause 12 can still be used.

Yes but can it be used for some players and not others which would seem to be contrary to the intention of the clause? If you can use it in such a scattergun way then there is a risk of them breaking the law. For example if the Scots players accept a variation and they end up suspending a contract of a non Scottish player. That player may claim they are being discriminated against if say the Scots or British players are not being suspended. :wink:

I can quite understand, if there is little money in the pot, attempts to keep things running but the approach seems quite brutal so presumably either reflects their cultural approach to business or is high end desperation.

[Iggy Pope]

Gorgie psyche? Christ almighty.

[Liam978]

Flour's probably worth more than Hearts right now!

As is the loyalty our club are showing to their fans at the moment Brian. Many of us will lose our seats held for many years due to the policy that means, sell them something that might never exist whether they can afford it at this present time or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes but can it be used for some players and not others which would seem to be contrary to the intention of the clause? If you can use it in such a scattergun way then there is a risk of them breaking the law. For example if the Scots players accept a variation and they end up suspending a contract of a non Scottish player. That player may claim they are being discriminated against if say the Scots or British players are not being suspended. :wink:

I can quite understand, if there is little money in the pot, attempts to keep things running but the approach seems quite brutal so presumably either reflects their cultural approach to business or is high end desperation.

Scattergun sounds good to me.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Gorgie psyche? Christ almighty.

A typo away from describing Drew Busby.

[Iggy Pope]

As is the loyalty our club are showing to their fans at the moment Brian. Many of us will lose our seats held for many years due to the policy that means, sell them something that might never exist whether they can afford it at this present time or not.

I’m not getting the gist of this one Liam.

[Irish_Steve]

A typo away from describing Drew Busby.

Porgie???? ;)

[Tyler Durden]

They want to be lauded for this “unique fan ownership model” but can’t deal with the realities of actually running a club.

They don’t seem to appreciate that they took on a debt the moment they signed the contracts of the huge number of player and coaching staff.

Pathetic.

[Iggy Pope]

A typo away from describing Drew Busby.

:greengrin. Not the Christ bit, obviously.

[CropleyWasGod]

:greengrin. Not the Christ bit, obviously.

Auntie Christ:greengrin

[Iggy Pope]

Auntie Christ:greengrin

You’re on form.

[Waxy]

Just pinched this from Brokeback - I highlighted the bit on bold

Dear Pledger

Following today’s club statement, the Foundation board has discussed the issues arising from that and I want to pass on to you our views.

There are two over-riding and linked principles which the statement makes clear. First, that the club’s business plan is geared to ensuring the sustainability of the club through and after the impact of Covid-19. Secondly, that decisions and actions taken now should not result in football debt being passed on to the next owners of the club. These are principles which, not surprisingly, we endorse wholeheartedly. We all know the impact of the club being burdened by debt and after the years of financial support which supporters have given to the club through the Foundation, to be placed in that situation once again at the very time that fan ownership becomes a reality would be quite intolerable

We therefore welcome the chairwoman’s stance on this and are in full agreement with the proposals she has outlined. We are very grateful to those players who have already declared their support and acceptance of the temporary measures. Others need time to process and discuss the situation based on their own personal circumstances and this too we absolutely appreciate.

We would also like to pay tribute to the staff of the club. They have gone the extra mile to help its long-term future and we truly appreciate that.

Everyone involved at this great club is making concessions right now, not least the fans who – in the most challenging of circumstances - are continuing to pledge and are supporting the club in other ways such as season ticket purchases. The lessons of the past are burned deeply in the Gorgie psyche. We have all learned from them, and the board of the Foundation will always support strategies which prevent past mistakes being repeated.

Together, with some challenges, we know, we can safeguard the future of Heart of Midlothian - something the Hearts community has done in the recent past and which I have no doubt we will all do again now.

Thank you for your unbelievable support, and please stay safe and stay well.

Kind regards
Stuart Wallace
Chair, Foundation of Hearts
Your talkin crap pal. You lot are paying double wages to we we are and we’re same size clubs. Cheats.

[TheSouthMoroccan]

That is not the point I am making. The league may be suspended at present but no club has exercised C12 anywhere in Scotland.

Having now been empowered to end the SPFL season they have ended the Championship, L1,L2. They defered doing so for The Prem until the UEFA meeting yesterday, at which Belguim and Scotland made representations to allow them to end their seasons as stand.

Uefa confirmed the criteria and both Scotland and Belguim meet one or both.

The League should therefore be called as is at the SPFL Board meeting on Monday. If teams use any delay to invoke C12 then the SPFL, as a members organisation, could be seen to be colluding with its member(s) to unlawfully deny a player his rightful payment or to have done so to avoid the nullification of said contract due to non-fulfilment of a material condition.

That said C12 will in itself be a contentious issue challengeable in court on the grounds that it is an unreasonably onerous condition imposed by an individual or organisation, not a party to the contract, which in effect represents s restriction to trade under EU Law, still applicable in the transition period.

Additionally in commencing a court action against say HMFC and others the pursuer can ask that the defender place bond to cover the pursuers costs should the defender lose. In light of say HMFC's parilous finance a Sherrif at stage one may make an order to that effect.

Budgie is dicing with disaster if she thinks she can go down this route without serious risk to the company (HMFC) and the SPFL wont want to be party to an action that could financially penalise its members.

Not saying it could, would or should happen just demonstating a potential scenario the PFA and its members might seek to pursue.

Thanks, nicely critiqued. Just as well you're not a Jambo, they would never have understood any of that on Brokeback

[Eyrie]

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and
astute businesswoman Budge is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

[Since452]

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and
astute businesswoman Budge is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

It's almost as if one club knows what it's doing and the other wings it

[The 90+2]

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and
astute businesswoman Budge is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

[Liam978]

I’m not getting the gist of this one Liam.

i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.

[The Count]

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

[Ozyhibby]

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

They may struggle to sign players if players know a second outbreak will result in them not getting paid at all.
Honouring contracts is always the right way to go.


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[007]

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

Come December they might have the Championship wrapped up, the same way they did with the Premiership last season.

[Tug Wilson]

Using transfermarkt.com to look at the contracted players for next season.

1. Celtic - 30
2. The Rangers - 28
3. Hearts - 26
4. Aberdeen - 23
5. Livingston - 20
6. Hibernian - 19
7. St Johnstone - 15
8. Motherwell - 13
9. Ross County - 13
10. St Mirren - 13
11. Hamilton - 10
12. Kilmarnock - 9

Some clubs have bloated squads that will be costing them a fortune with potentially no income for months.

[EI255]

Hearts. The club that died summer 2020.



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[The 90+2]

Thats my worry we do the morally right thing yet come December the Jambos have managed to get out of their financial obligations immorally but all is forgotten and they can still pay bigger salaries than us.

Yep. Based on past history they alway come up stinking of roses.

[Keith_M]

i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.


What is it that you want the club to do?

[Hibs4185]

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

Exactly. We run sustainably and use our resources doing the correct thing. They blow every penny they have and treat their players disgracefully.

In a few months we will be more or less in an equal position. Totally unfair.

It’s obviously nice being able to take the moral high ground but they should be punished if they can’t make their payroll this month or invoke article 12. It’s not fair in clubs who go about their business in the proper manner.

[Stanton Spence]

What is it that you want the club to do?I'm maybe just having a guess but how about extending the early bird option until a lot of self employed guys like myself get anything from this furloughed caper or how about letting us pay a retainer of some sort or how about even letting us ask if they could keep the guys seat he's obviously held for years until anyone has a clue about what year the league will start? If they can narrow that down to a month then if I can't afford my seat then please feel free to give to someone else

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[The Modfather]

To be honest, long term, their way might be for the best. Paying our players back at a later date although morally completely correct might lead to difficulties in the future. Their way of not doing that will save a lot of money if it comes off.

Deferring wages is the right thing to do IMO, with the provision that we’re in unprecedented times and the landscape is ever changing. So we may need to review our deferred position at some point, but you would hope to have the players on side in that scenario and work with the club given our intent to try and minimise the impact to players for something they’re as much a victim of as the club is.

[jacomo]

Let me get this straight.

In the six weeks that have passed since the visionary Budge first demanded the players take pay cuts, nothing has happened and
astute businesswoman Budge is now repeating the same demand that the players have already ignored.

Meanwhile, and not a million miles away, another club of similar size agreed a mutually satisfactory deal with its players several weeks ago.


As simple minded, drug-addled caravan dwellers, we can’t hope to understand Budge’s genius, but thankfully the FOH statement has clarified things:

1. The Hearts business plan is to try not to go bust during this pandemic
2. FOH agree that it’s a good idea not to go bust.

With such deceptively simple yet profound wisdom, it’s no surprise that Budge is known worldwide as the Sage of Midlothian.

[007]

Budge has been bleating about the SPFL changing their rules. I wonder if next she'll campaigning to get the rule re points deductions for Administration changed. Purely to protect the struggling lower division clubs you understand.

[KeithTheHibby]

You do wonder why some of the players have not agreed to these wage cuts. The majority of the country are earning 80% of what they may normally earn so why are some of these under achieving players not doing their bit?

[plhibs]

Someone on JKB just posted that they were hoping to get new players in to play in the cup when it starts up again. What planet have they come from?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Am I right in thinking that Hearts (unlike many other clubs) have a monthly stream of income from their fan base over and above anything else that may come in?

[tamig]

i'm self employed Stevie, no luck yet regarding renumeration of some sorts via HMRC. so it looks like I will lose my seat in the east which I've had since it's inception. It irks me to see that the Gorgie mob have identified this problem and are helping their fans accordingly.

Have you been in touch with the club? A bit unfair questioning Hibs loyalty to their fans if you haven’t.

[tamig]

Am I right in thinking that Hearts (unlike many other clubs) have a monthly stream of income from their fan base over and above anything else that may come in?

That’ll be their only income but it won’t cover anything near their bloated wage bill.

[Not In The Know]

You do wonder why some of the players have not agreed to these wage cuts. The majority of the country are earning 80% of what they may normally earn so why are some of these under achieving players not doing their bit?

probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

[duffers]

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

[Ozyhibby]

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

Wages are paid in arrears so it is premiership wages they are due next weeks. I read somewhere that relegation clauses usually allow for a 25% reduction and not all contracts have them.


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[KeithTheHibby]

probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

Must be more than just guys like that. I wonder if these players are looking at other clubs and seeing wages being deferred rather than cut and are thinking that would be fair? Who knows, it’s a real mess over at Tynecastle.


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[B.H.F.C]

Is it not normal for most players to have a clause in there contract where there wage will be cut to say 50% if relegated? If so, they could be relegated prior to the wages being paid next week?

Most well run clubs will have relegation clauses in contracts.

Poorly run clubs who think they are too big to be relegated might not. The likes of Boyce probably will, given relegation was a real danger when he signed. I’m not so sure all the players already there will have.

[Waxy]

probably the likes of Berra and the others who were shafted in January.

Treating the players poorly, cold and uncaring has come back to bite them on the bum.

[Ozyhibby]

Most well run clubs will have relegation clauses in contracts.

Poorly run clubs who think they are too big to be relegated might not. The likes of Boyce probably will, given relegation was a real danger when he signed. I’m not so sure all the players already there will have.

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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[Springbank]

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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Totally
Plus, hearts were desperate & deluded

Or as football agents call it "The Sweet Spot"

[Since452]

Totally
Plus, hearts were desperate & deluded

Or as football agents call it "The Sweet Spot"

I still don't get the hype around his signing. You'd think they'd signed Messi. The money they are paying a pretty average player in my opinion is staggering especially for his contribution so far.

[B.H.F.C]

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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Can’t see Aberdeen offering him anywhere near the crazy money Hearts were though. Any cut might still have him on a par with what he would have earned there. If they were offering a comparative salary in the first place then surely he would have just went there.

[Crazyhorse]

"I cannot - and will not, in good conscience - leave the club in a position again where football debt is left as a 'legacy' for those who follow."

That sounds very much like she has thrown in the towel. She doesn't have the cash to pay the wages next week so she is desperately looking at ways to hide the debt for the soon to be appointed adminstrators.

She missed the furlough claim cut off date so she is lumbered with the lot. As salary is paid in arrears a failure to pay wages next week, even if she invokes C12, and its dubious applicability, she still owes them a months pay or indeed the team shortly to be called the "Team Previously Known As Hearts" will find themselves climbing back via the 5th, if not 6th tier of Scottish footballs new pyramid with a points penalty to boot.

Surely this is now the perfect time for Ann ‘Overbudget’ Budge to hand this sh**show over to the fans, they keep telling us they own it now. Perfect end to Queen Ann’s glorious reign.

[Springbank]

Surely this is now the perfect time for Ann ‘Overbudget’ Budge to hand this sh**show over to the fans, they keep telling us they own it now. Perfect end to Queen Ann’s glorious reign.

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.

[Springbank]

Before anyone who knows me starts worrying - that last post is just my view of Ann Budge

The fact hearts are stuck, either way, remains a source of great entertainment & joy for me during the otherwise difficult lockdown :)

[Greenworld]

Wages are paid in arrears so it is premiership wages they are due next weeks. I read somewhere that relegation clauses usually allow for a 25% reduction and not all contracts have them.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAnd surley they will be entitled to premiership wages until it was meant to end

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[Greenworld]

The thing is legally do they have the players by the balls so to speak ?
I know they are saying their QC says its all ok.
If that is the case you have no choice but to accept ? You either get nothing of reduced wages you decide.
Can the players walk away from there contract in that position?
So many questions

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[Bostonhibby]

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.There's a lot in this but any sympathy or recognition from me disappears when I reflect on her grandstanding, I know best approach.

Her legacy will be better than she inherited, it'll be a better admin and they'll nearly have one completed single tier stand.

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[Jack]

Budge has consistently said that she wants to hand over her club in a better position than it was when she scooped up the bargain basement club and for that to happen there must be no football debt.

But surely football debt only comes into it in the armageddon scenario of administration or bankruptcy?

In any other type of transfer of the club it's just a case of a "simple" transfer of assets as it was when Ron Gordon took over Hibs. Ron said "There's the dosh" STF said "There's the shares" they shake hands Ron is now the major shareholder/owner. There was no highlighting football debt must be considered. That's just part and parcel of the company.

[weecounty hibby]

Totally reading between the lines here. But football debt is the only debt that a ****ed up basket case like hearts needs to pay off if they go into administration. As has been seen before by clubs, hearts, Motherwell, Dundee and the Hun they can just jettison the majority of the other debt by paying pennies in the pound to get rid of it. I wonder is she is teeing them up for admin 2? By having admin 2 with no/minimal football debt the foundation of erses could take over their disgrace if a club for relatively small amounts. As Budget herself did
Edit. I should say that I am no financial wizard and can barely manage a kitty when out on the lash so take this as the musings of someone who would be happy to see them languishing in the lowland league for years!!!

[Bostonhibby]

Budge has consistently said that she wants to hand over her club in a better position than it was when she scooped up the bargain basement club and for that to happen there must be no football debt.

But surely football debt only comes into it in the armageddon scenario of administration or bankruptcy?

In any other type of transfer of the club it's just a case of a "simple" transfer of assets as it was when Ron Gordon took over Hibs. Ron said "There's the dosh" STF said "There's the shares" they shake hands Ron is now the major shareholder/owner. There was no highlighting football debt must be considered. That's just part and parcel of the company.Maybe the good doctor is preparing them for some debt disclosure / ongoing liabilities they maybe weren't expecting given how much cash has been handed over?

Items that would have been easier to conceal in times of normal cash flow? They did seem to hit the panic button very early even if the players chose not to co-operate.

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[JimBHibees]

Dearie me ! That statement's all over the place (as usual).

She says that the players "unanimously" understand the circumstances. What a pointless thing to say, apart from trying to portray an image of unity that obviously doesn't exist.

She goes on

"I am an owner and supporter who is committed to the journey of full fan ownership"

but also

"As a fan-owned club we are unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt"

Is this another "your share certificates are in the post" episode?

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

[tamig]

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

I think they probably do. But if said comms guru was in charge of some of her previous statements over the years I’d suggest they weren’t very good. Remember the obsessive overuse of punctuation? Exclamation marks popping up every second sentence. They are just a poorly run club.

[JimBHibees]

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


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Agree unlikely he would have signed if he did though maybe they upped his wages if relegation clause included. Might also have been a clause he could leave if relegated also.

[eezyrider]

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

[jacomo]

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.


Sure, but it might be that she is just trying to protect her reputation. Obviously if the worst happens and Hearts go into admin again, her reputation will be in tatters.

I do feel some sympathy for her, as she is so clearly floundering out of her depth. Her silly statements and constant need to take the limelight are signs of just how far out of depth she is.

But the bottom line is that she is making the impact of this crisis on Scottish football worse, not better, and that is unforgivable.

[Ozyhibby]

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


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[Greenworld]

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?Very good point privately owned at present

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[Greenworld]

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAnd they have already borrowed circa 900k if i remember correctly from 1 million borrowing pot!

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[CropleyWasGod]

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


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The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

[greenginger]

The
Maybe the good doctor is preparing them for some debt disclosure / ongoing liabilities they maybe weren't expecting given how much cash has been handed over?

Items that would have been easier to conceal in times of normal cash flow? They did seem to hit the panic button very early even if the players chose not to co-operate.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk


Budge must have have had a good reason for delaying the publication of her Bidco1874 company accounts . :cb

[eezyrider]

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


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If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

[Ozyhibby]

The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

I’ve no idea how it would work to be honest, I had just read an opinion that the clause would not get past FIFA. Maybe only for international players. Maybe if they do it for one player they have to do it for all?

The best way to find out is for Hearts to go for it. I don’t think it’s ever been tested before so would be interesting to see what would happen. It would certainly damage Hearts reputation when it comes to signing new players though.


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[Ozyhibby]

If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

I think they would find it very difficult to borrow just now and also I don’t think she can because her deal is to hand over to FOH debt free. That’s why she is trying so hard to avoid deferment of wages.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

Unlike the players that person was furloughed

[Mikey]

The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

I wonder what the players union are saying about it?

[tamig]

If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

I don’t think they have a bank credit line. Their borrowing is private. Most likely the same source as a chunk of their income.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

It's not just debt that can tip you into admin. The key is cash flow. As long as you can continue to meet your current liabilities you can bump along but when the income dries up as it has at HMFC and you cannot meet your £1.4m monthly commitments with your £140k bung from FoH you have a gap which unless say a player or 20 agrees to defer receipt of their payment the band in the background starts playing "Swanney"...as in yer up it.

[munchar]

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

Still don’t understand this benefactor. Are they just donating funds endlessly with no return? Why not just invest in the club? How long can you keep throwing money down the tube? There must be a catch?

[tamig]

Still don’t understand this benefactor. Are they just donating funds endlessly with no return? Why not just invest bin the club? How long can you keep throwing money down the tube? There must be a catch?

Is it not the case that the benefactor flow has stopped - and that’s why they’re toiling so badly?

[munchar]

Is it not the case that the benefactor flow has stopped - and that’s why they’re toiling so badly?

But why were they throwing money at them anyway? Surely they’re business people, not lottery winners giving to a club they support?

[tamig]

But why were they throwing money at them anyway? Surely they’re business people, not lottery winners giving to a club they support?

Who knows bud? A lot of rich folk do daft things with their dosh.

[cocteautwin]

And they have already borrowed circa 900k if i remember correctly from 1 million borrowing pot!

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

That £1m isn’t a credit line from an external financial institution but just a loan “facility” made up by Budge herself. She did previously try to dress it up as some borrowing that they had secured but it was just a directors loan from the Bank of Ann Budge.

[Peevemor]

It's not just debt that can tip you into admin. The key is cash flow. As long as you can continue to meet your current liabilities you can bump along but when the income dries up as it has at HMFC and you cannot meet your £1.4m monthly commitments with your £140k bung from FoH you have a gap which unless say a player or 20 agrees to defer receipt of their payment the band in the background starts playing "Swanney"...as in yer up it.Administration is often triggered by institutional creditors, eg. HMRC - either NI/PAYE or VAT.

After wages these are often the biggest payments that businesses have to make and if you start to use their money for other things you can only juggle for so long before you go tits up.

They normally don't have much sympathy for regular/repeat offenders either.

[whiskyhibby]

As simple minded, drug-addled caravan dwellers, we can’t hope to understand Budge’s genius, but thankfully the FOH statement has clarified things:

1. The Hearts business plan is to try not to go bust during this pandemic
2. FOH agree that it’s a good idea not to go bust.

With such deceptively simple yet profound wisdom, it’s no surprise that Budge is known worldwide as the Sage of Midlothian.


:top marks:thumbsup:

[H18 SFR]

Hearts won't go into administration, their fans would ultimately bail them out.

Through FoH, one way or another they would be bailed out, whether that included Budge leaving immediately etc I don't know but there is no way they will go into admin.

[Skol]

They are talking in a wAy that suggests they are preparing by for administration. Making sure they don’t pass football debt to the new owners. Wouldn’t surprise me if those new owners are FOG who find themselves having shed liability for a load of unpaid bills.

What a way to run your business.

[jacomo]

Administration is often triggered by institutional creditors, eg. HMRC - either NI/PAYE or VAT.

After wages these are often the biggest payments that businesses have to make and if you start to use their money for other things you can only juggle for so long before you go tits up.

They normally don't have much sympathy for regular/repeat offenders either.


Any football club in financial difficulties will get extraordinary leniency during this crisis.

I can’t see HMRC pressing the button.

[cocteautwin]

April/May/June is that time of the year when football clubs have their highest cash balances of the year (due to season ticket sales), and this is the sole reason why HMFC aren't heading to Administration any time in the next 3 months. They'll likely be bringing in close to £1m every fortnight for the next 8 weeks. If the anonymous donor really has stopped contributing then what is happening now is a tasteless attempt by HMFC to reposition their spending levels in preparation for the new season, likely to be in the Championship. They really do need a clear out to remove the high earners and excessive costs, and what better time to do it than under cover of a worldwide corona virus crisis.

The fun and games begin at the start of the new season when they find, once again, that they've spent most of their advance season ticket money to see them through to the end of the current season.

[007]

Totally reading between the lines here. But football debt is the only debt that a ****ed up basket case like hearts needs to pay off if they go into administration. As has been seen before by clubs, hearts, Motherwell, Dundee and the Hun they can just jettison the majority of the other debt by paying pennies in the pound to get rid of it. I wonder is she is teeing them up for admin 2? By having admin 2 with no/minimal football debt the foundation of erses could take over their disgrace if a club for relatively small amounts. As Budget herself did
Edit. I should say that I am no financial wizard and can barely manage a kitty when out on the lash so take this as the musings of someone who would be happy to see them languishing in the lowland league for years!!!

If Admin 2 happens is the Administrator not duty bound to listen to offers and go with what's best for the creditors which could be to sell to the Barnsley guy? What happens to the contact Budge has with FoH to transfer ownership to them? Could an insolvency event render it null and void?

Haven't been following it too closely but what is the benefit to either Budge or Hearts to hold off on transferring ownership when, as I understand it, all conditions have been met? Why delay?