The generic Hearts thread

[bingo70]

What leadership? The SPFL is the clubs.

It’s not the clubs that negotiate TV deals, sponsorship and promotes the game.

I know what you are getting at and I don’t have an issue with their handling of this situation, I just don’t think our game is promoted and sold as well as it could be.

I also don’t think the league being run as a membership organisation with all clubs voting in their own interest is healthy. I think it should be an independent body.

[Irish_Steve]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/only-hearts

still there I think! See Dens Kidd has some sympathy for their cause!

I saw that too. Was considering donating £1 with my new name of "You`re down, ya roasters" but you need to donate at least £5 - not stretching that far lol

[Joe6-2]

Inverness have just directly accused clubs of bullying and have stated they told Doncaster directly. This has got a bit more to run now.

Just decided to mention this now?

[hibeerealist]

It’s now Sunday afternoon and they decide to produce a statement along the lines of Newco’s dossier full of speculation blah blah.

Why has he left it this late to come back to the table. Surely this information could have been produced before now.

Bear in mind this is the same ICT chairman who said all teams in the championship had a what’s app group only to be **** down. The same ICT chairman who has ties to both Newco and Hearts.

Pre-planned along with their buddies


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I agree, the one club, famous for statements, closely followed by it's wee cousins bereft of bus fares, has clearly "encouraged" the Tsunami of statements we are now seeing!! Sevco are obviously very sore taking all things into account (they won nowt and CFC are now on 9IAR) and are stirring things up in the background ably assisted by Chemical Annie (runner up in the statement league).

This latest one, written by a sevco fan and former director at the Pink Palace, reeks of pain at losing out on a play off (or automatic promotion if the "extend the SPL nuts got their way") for the SPL so NO AXE TO GRIND THERE THEN.

This all seems like a **** or bust action from at least two of the players (one in the west and one in the east), is this possibly because financially they are standing on the trap door? I certainly get the feeling that HMOFC, given the whole mess that was played out with their players and wage cuts, could be in a perilous state (with impending relegation added to this).

[GreenCastle]

Can see more statements before Tuesdays meeting then after meeting.

Going to be some hilarious reading.

[Keith_M]

So what's the details of the alleged bullying?

Who bullied who, and how?

[MrSmith]

OK, so the tail is beginning to way the dog - if not already doing so? - therefore, the rest of the clubs must now act and act decisively! Challenge every statement from those clubs claiming to be hard done by and working for the best of Scottish Football but who are in effect, self serving, sycophantic liars.

[Aldo]

I agree, the one club, famous for statements, closely followed by it's wee cousins bereft of bus fares, has clearly "encouraged" the Tsunami of statements we are now seeing!! Sevco are obviously very sore taking all things into account (they won nowt and CFC are now on 9IAR) and are stirring things up in the background ably assisted by Chemical Annie (runner up in the statement league).

This latest one, written by a sevco fan and former director at the Pink Palace, reeks of pain at losing out on a play off (or automatic promotion if the "extend the SPL nuts got their way") for the SPL so NO AXE TO GRIND THERE THEN.

This all seems like a **** or bust action from at least two of the players (one in the west and one in the east), is this possibly because financially they are standing on the trap door? I certainly get the feeling that HMOFC, given the whole mess that was played out with their players and wage cuts, could be in a perilous state (with impending relegation added to this).

Doncaster admits that there were robust discussions and words said between clubs however no formal complaints.

So Mr Gardiner I would suggest you are mischief making, stirring the **** for the sake of it. Why did the representatives of these clubs not come forward all those weeks ago and make a formal complaint??? I really do wonder why.

So when the dust is settle the SPFL should be taking action against ICT for bringing the game into disrepute.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

It’s not the clubs that negotiate TV deals, sponsorship and promotes the game.

I know what you are getting at and I don’t have an issue with their handling of this situation, I just don’t think our game is promoted and sold as well as it could be.

I also don’t think the league being run as a membership organisation with all clubs voting in their own interest is healthy. I think it should be an independent body.

So who owns the independent body? Whose interests do they run the independent body for? Is there such a thing as an independent body?

[truehibernian]

Doncaster admits that there were robust discussions and words said between clubs however no formal complaints.

So Mr Gardiner I would suggest you are mischief making, stirring the **** for the sake of it. Why did the representatives of these clubs not come forward all those weeks ago and make a formal complaint??? I really do wonder why.

So when the dust is settle the SPFL should be taking action against ICT for bringing the game into disrepute.


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Wonder if Gardiner put his complaint in writing to Neil Doncaster as any professional organisation would ?

Or did he just send emojis on WhatsApp :take that:boo hoo::violin::blah::rules::fuming:

[plhibs]

If the SPFL do not take action against the teams spouting off for bringing the game into disrepute then the games a bogey imho.

It’ll be a free for all with teams saying and going what they want knowing there will be no consequences.

Let’s hope once this all settles a bit that sanctions are brought against those teams responsible.


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I think your first paragraph is exactly what sevco is wanting to happen, blow the whole thing up so they can get into a position of power and get rid of a lot of teams and change the rules to give them sweet revenge on Scottish football. After all we are all to blame for their demotion to the bottom division.

[Aldo]

Wonder if Gardiner put his complaint in writing to Neil Doncaster as any professional organisation would ?

Or did he just send emojis on WhatsApp :take that:boo hoo::violin::blah::rules::fuming:

I think we know the answer to both those questions TH...... [emoji1314][emoji777]


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[Aldo]

I think your first paragraph is exactly what sevco is wanting to happen, blow the whole thing up so they can get into a position of power and get rid of a lot of teams and change the rules to give them sweet revenge on Scottish football. After all we are all to blame for their demotion to the bottom division.

Could well be the case however I think you’ll find that a lot of clubs are silently peed off with certain clubs in the league (s)


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[bingo70]

So who owns the independent body? Whose interests do they run the independent body for? Is there such a thing as an independent body?

How do the other leagues work it?

Pretty sure the English Premiership isn’t a democracy across all member clubs in England?

Happy to be corrected on that front btw, I just think the system we have just now doesn’t really work and seems to throw up issues like this whenever there is a difficult decision to be made.

I appreciate the Premiership down south isn’t a great comparison, how to other countries comparable with us do it? The Scandinavian countries, Croatian, Belgian even? Are they all run as democracies across member clubs?

[A Hi-Bee]

ICT another of the only clubs who might gain something.
This now does stink of corruption and collusion but from Hearts and Rangers side.
To come out with it this late has to be a lie.
The season needs shut down tomorrow.

One common denominator amongst the “Three Bandito’s”
Points deduction all-round, once fitba gets back to some normality, if ever.
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

[Squealing pig]

Poor piggies

[A Hi-Bee]

In France Amiens (relegated) and Lyon (miss out on champions league) are also threatening legal action. Unsurprising self interest from teams who if they wanted to avoid bad news should have won more games. I think the main difference between France and Scotland is the Scots have more shreiky infantile language and babyish punditry.

With a lot less cash so cannot be compared to any other country so the game is a wee bit corrupt in Scotland, now that is a surprise, been going on as long as I have followed football in Scotland and thats for more years than I care to remember.
Relegate them now, move on and forget about them i say.

[Ozyhibby]

How do the other leagues work it?

Pretty sure the English Premiership isn’t a democracy across all member clubs in England?

Happy to be corrected on that front btw, I just think the system we have just now doesn’t really work and seems to throw up issues like this whenever there is a difficult decision to be made.

I appreciate the Premiership down south isn’t a great comparison, how to other countries comparable with us do it? The Scandinavian countries, Croatian, Belgian even? Are they all run as democracies across member clubs?

In most other countries, including in England, the FA run the top league.


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[Since452]

So what's the details of the alleged bullying?

Who bullied who, and how?

They don't have any details or evidence. Just like Rangers dossier it's just waffle written in a rage.

It's like when you're fuming at work and have an email all typed up, go and do something for 10 mins and come back and decide against it and delete it. ICT didn't delete it.

[Peevemor]

For me the problem isn't the set up.

The SPL was a breakaway private company.

It was problematic & cumbersome to have one set-up for the top league and another for the rest so the SPFL was formed as a members' organisation.

The current issues aren't down to the set-up. The issues are down to a very small minority of clubs who are damaging the image of the game in Scotland due to their self serving, infantile bleating.

[Since452]

For me the problem isn't the set up.

The SPL was a breakaway private company.

It was problematic & cumbersome to have one set-up for the top league and another for the rest so the SPFL was formed as a members' organisation.

The current issues aren't down to the set-up. The issues are down to a very small minority of clubs who are damaging the image of the game in Scotland due to their self serving, infantile bleating.

Correct. These daft clubs can ram it. Starting to really annoy me

[Ozyhibby]

For me the problem isn't the set up.

The SPL was a breakaway private company.

It was problematic & cumbersome to have one set-up for the top league and another for the rest so the SPFL was formed as a members' organisation.

The current issues aren't down to the set-up. The issues are down to a very small minority of clubs who are damaging the image of the game in Scotland due to their self serving, infantile bleating.


Correct. These daft clubs can ram it. Starting to really annoy me

The problem is that the SPFL has no ability to enforce discipline among its members. That is down to the set up and the fact it has previously turned a blind eye to cheating. Everyone is compromised by that.


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[Jdawg]

I saw that too. Was considering donating £1 with my new name of "You`re down, ya roasters" but you need to donate at least £5 - not stretching that far lol

I will transfer a pound to you. Just need 3 others 😂

[Peevemor]

The problem is that the SPFL has no ability to enforce discipline among its members. That is down to the set up and the fact it has previously turned a blind eye to cheating. Everyone is compromised by that.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe SPFL was formed in 2013

What cheating are you on about and how is it relevant to the current situation.

Measures to discipline clubs for stepping out of line can and should be introduced.

[truehibernian]

The problem is that the SPFL has no ability to enforce discipline among its members. That is down to the set up and the fact it has previously turned a blind eye to cheating. Everyone is compromised by that.


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They do though Ozy - any club who raises a dispute against the SPFL (Board) can have this heard by the full Board or a Commission appointed. So ICT and the other 'squealers' would know there is a process in place to resolve the matter and seek recompense, apology or remedy :aok: That's why I'm bemused ICT have not stated whether or not this has happened (and it should have been done in writing if they are professional) and they could clarify how indeed they made this bullying accusation known (email, phone call, conference call, in writing, etc.).

[hibbyfraelibby]

How do the other leagues work it?

Pretty sure the English Premiership isn’t a democracy across all member clubs in England?

Happy to be corrected on that front btw, I just think the system we have just now doesn’t really work and seems to throw up issues like this whenever there is a difficult decision to be made.

I appreciate the Premiership down south isn’t a great comparison, how to other countries comparable with us do it? The Scandinavian countries, Croatian, Belgian even? Are they all run as democracies across member clubs?

The Football Association Premier League Ltd (FAPL) is operated as a corporation and is owned by the 20 member clubs. Each club is a shareholder, with one vote each on issues such as rule changes and contracts.

Just like here, as it is everywhere, there is ni such thing as an independent organisation.

[Carheenlea]

I wonder if we will have seen the last of Stendal?

In amongst the bleating over relegation and reconstruction there has been little or no chat about the Future of their manager which has quite frankly been a disastrous appointment. Few managers survive a relegation - will Stendal be one who does?

[bingo70]

I wonder if we will have seen the last of Stendal?

In amongst the bleating over relegation and reconstruction there has been little or no chat about the Future of their manager which has quite frankly been a disastrous appointment. Few managers survive a relegation - will Stendal be one who does?

Let’s not be hasty.

Remember they’re getting expelled, not relegated 😂

[Ozyhibby]

The SPFL was formed in 2013

What cheating are you on about and how is it relevant to the current situation.

Measures to discipline clubs for stepping out of line can and should be introduced.

The spfl was formed out of the spl. It’s the same people and clubs who are compromised. The mysterious 5 way agreement and the decision to limit the LNS investigation and withhold evidence from it and the now frozen investigation into Rangers 2011 Euro application were all carried out by the people and clubs running the game now. A decision was made to give them a pass and they now feel they can do what they like. And because they do, so do all the other clubs.
A properly functioning governing body would have acted by now to stop the clubs constantly making claims that are not in the interests of the game and not backed up by any evidence.


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[Peevemor]

The spfl was formed out of the spl. It’s the same people and clubs who are compromised. The mysterious 5 way agreement and the decision to limit the LNS investigation and withhold evidence from it and the now frozen investigation into Rangers 2011 Euro application were all carried out by the people and clubs running the game now. A decision was made to give them a pass and they now feel they can do what they like. And because they do, so do all the other clubs.
A properly functioning governing body would have acted by now to stop the clubs constantly making claims that are not in the interests of the game and not backed up by any evidence.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's not the same organisation. (full stop)

[Sudds_1]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mSu0ID_l50M&noapp=1

Ah...karma repeats itself. Had a wee chuckle remembering this one😁

[Billy Whizz]

Inverness are probably the worst team to visit Easter Road this season. They weren't coming up anyway

Probably one of the dirtiest too

[greenginger]

It's not the same organisation. (full stop)


The SPFL is the name that the Scottish Premier League Ltd adopted in 2013.

[Peevemor]

The SPFL is the name that the Scottish Premier League Ltd adopted in 2013.With how many additional members?

[Ozyhibby]

It's not the same organisation. (full stop)

It is the same people who ran both though. If Doncaster is compromised then it doesn’t matter what the logo says, it’s still him.


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[MrSmith]

The SPFL is the name that the Scottish Premier League Ltd adopted in 2013.


It is but they removed the lower league federation because the president was not keen on the Rangers getting back in. Forgotten his name (Longmuir?) but the SPFL is a combination of the SPL and SFL to create one to rule all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Professional_Football_League

[hibbyfraelibby]

The SPFL is the name that the Scottish Premier League Ltd adopted in 2013.

You forget the merger between the Scottish Football League and the Scottish Premier League was not a take over. The SPFL is a new body, all be it with some of the usual suspects, not a rebranded SPL.

[Peevemor]

You forget the merger between the Scottish Football League and the Scottish Premier League was not a take over. The SPFL is a new body, all be it with some of the usual suspects, not a rebranded SPL.My point exactly. It's not the same set-up.

[Eyrie]

Let’s not be hasty.

Remember they’re getting expelled, not relegated 😂

If they're being expelled then they won't be playing in any league organised by the SPFL next season and there is a vacancy for Brora and Kelty to argue over.

[Hibs4185]

So.. if all the players have relegation clauses, but according to all connected with hearts, it’s anything but relegation, does that mean all the players get full pay??

Juts like rangers, bad news.... old club. Good news...we are the original rangers.

Hearts to players- we’ve been relegated. 50% reduction or you’re free to leave. To the rest of the world... we’ve not been relegated, it’s a disgrace, we’ve been ejected, expelled blah blah blah.

[CropleyWasGod]

You forget the merger between the Scottish Football League and the Scottish Premier League was not a take over. The SPFL is a new body, all be it with some of the usual suspects, not a rebranded SPL.

The company itself was formed in 1997. When the merger happened, it renamed itself.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364

[Peevemor]

The company itself was formed in 1997. When the merger happened, it renamed itself.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364And instead of being a breakaway league specifically for the elite, it became the vehicle for the top 4 leagues.

It's fundamentally different from the original company.

[CropleyWasGod]

And instead of being a breakaway league specifically for the elite, it became the vehicle for the top 4 leagues.

It's fundamentally different from the original company.

...but it is the same company, which some are saying it isn't.

Fwiw, I agree that it trades in a different way now.

[Peevemor]

...but it is the same company, which some are saying it isn't.

Fwiw, I agree that it trades in a different way now.The point of the original SPL was the top league breaking away, taking power and money with them.

It's now a totally different model.

[xyz23jc]

Probably one of the dirtiest too

Mair than Hertz or Aberdeen? :shocked:

[jacomo]

And instead of being a breakaway league specifically for the elite, it became the vehicle for the top 4 leagues.

It's fundamentally different from the original company.


And Hearts aren’t being demoted from the SPFL at all, so I don’t know what they are complaining about.

They are just being placed in a more appropriate division.

[Hibees1973]

Interesting wee read over on JKB on ‘why everyone hates Hearts’.

Seems they have resorted ‘en mass’ to a siege mentality with all that is happening to them and their impending relegation.

My feelings are that all fans generally have no ‘hate teams’ other than city rivals or clubs which has a murky history seeped in bigotry and is then adopted by their supporters, for example Rangers.

Which brings me to why they feel everyone hates Hearts. There seems to be little acknowledgement on JKB that they have a fairly large section of support who embrace sectarianism. One of the few successes of the Budge era was to weed out and expel supporters who sang the ‘Billy boy’ song and used sectarianism to abuse opposition players and supporters at matches.

Also, no acknowledgement whatsoever that opposition supporters resent Hearts strategy to launder money and overspend which led the their last 3 Scottish Cup wins. There is nothing on JKB stating that they won nothing for around 40 years until they garnered a massive debt before 1998 and a debt which increased hugely afterwards, up until their subsequent administration in 2014. Over on JKB some posters still regard Romanov as some kind of hero. Jesus, he alone almost destroyed them.

Maybe, I would hate Hearts a little less if they acknowledged these facts. I have a few good mates who are Hearts fans and a workmate Jambo who I get on really well with.

However, if football in Edinburgh becomes a topic of conversation these Jambos try to wind me up about our rivalry, especially our head to head record in the last 30 years. I reply back that that this was mainly due to an imbalance of playing squads for both clubs which was due to Hearts spending more money on players, then getting over £30m (probably a lot more than this) written off.

Sadly, when this is put to a Jambo, the most I get out of them is a raised eyebrow, shake of the head and most of the time no answer all.

My dad is Jambo and wiling to call Hearts out for what they are. Maybe he is being honest with me just because I am his son.

Sadly, no other Jambo I have talked to has been as honest as my dad.

I do have some sympathy for the predicament Hearts are in as it is unfair. I would have even more sympathy and respect for Hearts if the Jambos I know were more honest about what they have got away with for the last 30 years.

[Keith_M]

OMG, we're back to the same club/entity or new club/entity argument.

Please just..... don't.

[mjhibby]

Interesting wee read over on JKB on ‘why everyone hates Hearts’.

Seems they have resorted ‘en mass’ to a siege mentality with all that is happening to them and their impending relegation.

My feelings are that all fans generally have no ‘hate teams’ other than city rivals or clubs which has a murky history seeped in bigotry and is then adopted by their supporters, for example Rangers.

Which brings me to why they feel everyone hates Hearts. There seems to be little acknowledgement on JKB that they have a fairly large section of support who embrace sectarianism. One of the few successes of the Budge era was to weed out and expel supporters who sang the ‘Billy boy’ song and used sectarianism to abuse opposition players and supporters at matches.

Also, no acknowledgement whatsoever that opposition supporters resent Hearts strategy to launder money and overspend which led the their last 3 Scottish Cup wins. There is nothing on JKB stating that they won nothing for around 40 years until they garnered a massive debt before 1998 and a debt which increased hugely afterwards, up until their subsequent administration in 2014. Over on JKB some posters still regard Romanov as some kind of hero. Jesus, he alone almost destroyed them.

Maybe, I would hate Hearts a little less if they acknowledged these facts. I have a few good mates who are Hearts fans and a workmate Jambo who I get on really well with.

However, if football in Edinburgh becomes a topic of conversation these Jambos try to wind me up about our rivalry, especially our head to head record in the last 30 years. I reply back that that this was mainly due to an imbalance of playing squads for both clubs which was due to Hearts spending more money on players, then getting over £30m (probably a lot more than this) written off.

Sadly, when this is put to a Jambo, the most I get out of them is a raised eyebrow, shake of the head and most of the time no answer all.

My dad is Jambo and wiling to call Hearts out for what they are. Maybe he is being honest with me just because I am his son.

Sadly, no other Jambo I have talked to has been as honest as my dad.

I do have some sympathy for the predicament Hearts are in as it is unfair. I would have even more sympathy and respect for Hearts if the Jambos I know were more honest about what they have got away with for the last 30 years.

Totally my thoughts too. Will go on about the cup wins but silent when you mention the millions they spent they never had. It is indeed karma this is happening as they are going down while having spent £9m extra from foh, £10m overspent on an unfinished stand and millions pumped in by mr benny factor. How the **** do you get relegated with all those advantages. Only our hugely famous neighbours.

[The 90+2]

Did anyone from the current hearts set up ever apologise for past mistakes of robbing companies and charities of products and services they never intended to pay back then bumped through administration?

Surely they did as they often go on about this proud and glorious club.

If Budge did take over and humbly offered her apologies on behalf of past incumbents then I might for one second believe her when she says if it wasn’t hearts in this position she has integrity and be working hard for any club in their position.

[EI255]

Did anyone from the current hearts set up ever apologise for past mistakes of robbing companies and charities of products and services they never intended to pay back then bumped through administration?

Surely they did as they often go on about this proud and glorious club.

If Budge did take over and humbling offer apologies in behalf of past incumbents then I might for one second believe her when she says if it wasn’t hearts in this position she has integrity and be working hard for any club in their position.When you read Budge's rant you must wonder what their fans REALLY make of it. Even the shortest of memories can't forget THAT list of creditors!

She really is a hypocrite.

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[The 90+2]

When you read Budge's rant you must wonder what their fans REALLY make of it. Even the shortest of memories can't forget THAT list of creditors!

She really is a hypocrite.

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I don’t think they care - “blame Romanov, we saved our club”. The rest removed from memory and their “proud history” . it’s certainly not why they call themselves the famous.

[hibbyfraelibby]

The company itself was formed in 1997. When the merger happened, it renamed itself.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364

As happens in many mergers...you do not always start with a brand spanking new shelf company you use an existing vehicle.

[Jdawg]

In terms of a solidarity payment when don’t we take Hickey off their hands for 50k?

[Barney McGrew]

The S*n are this morning running a story where Ian Murray is having a pop at Dr Mrs Budge over the amount of money they’ve “wasted on reshaping the club time after time”

The infighting has startedi :greengrin

[cocteautwin]

The S*n are this morning running a story where Ian Murray is having a pop at Dr Mrs Budge over the amount of money they’ve “wasted on reshaping the club time after time”

The infighting has startedi :greengrin

He seems to be the one Jambo that's prepared to stand up and say it's all been a disaster. Not sure anyone will listen to him though, or even try to quantify how much has been spent. Ian, if you are reading this, it's around £28m that's been spent mate. Yes, you read that correctly, £28m. Of additional cash. Over and above the normal club takings of HMFC. It's a total shambles Ian. Have fun in the Tunnocks mate.

[Since452]

He seems to be the one Jambo that's prepared to stand up and say it's all been a disaster. Not sure anyone will listen to him though, or even try to quantify how much has been spent. Ian, if you are reading this, it's around £28m that's been spent mate. Yes, you read that correctly, £28m. Of additional cash. Over and above the normal club takings of HMFC. It's a total shambles Ian. Have fun in the Tunnocks mate.

The funny thing is that's it's usually way more than it the reported figure

[jacomo]

Michael Stewart in The Sun:

Hearts chief Ann Budge has been stitched up.. but she didn’t do herself any favours, says Michael Stewart

ANN BUDGE will spend much of the next few months thinking over what went wrong during this car crash of a season for Hearts.

And the wisdom of accepting a role heading the SPFL taskforce looking at reconstruction is surely something she will consider.

I can understand why Budge did it, with your fate sitting in so many other people’s hands it would have made sense to her to be inside the process rather than looking on and hoping.

And I’m sure she felt, deep down, that she could persuade people to see things her way.

After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her.

But, as the wreckage of reconstruction plans lie scattered across the floor, it’s hard not to feel she was stitched up.

It was far too easy for her to be painted as acting purely in self-interest, with comments about changing the structure in the past thrown back in her face.

Strategic errors, from making a 12-month reconstruction her aim at the outset to joining in on the battle against the SPFL, dogged her throughout.

And, with Scottish football facing financial ruin as well as being at war with itself over the botched vote and Rangers’ dossier, you always got the impression clubs would be more interested in other things right now.

That’s how it has panned out. But while everyone recognises the peril Scottish football is in, it is a shame our clubs couldn’t reach a consensus to help everyone. It’s not just Hearts, of course — Partick Thistle and Stranraer will be relegated without seeing out the season too, while the pyramid system has been abandoned for the year, leaving Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers stranded.

Self-interest and in- fighting have come to the fore again, as they always do in Scottish football, sadly.

I don’t see why we couldn’t have made a change to last two or three years, rather than insist on 12 months or it being locked in for the long term.

We could have tried it on a trial basis then let the clubs decide whether they thought it was working.

All it would have taken is a bit of forward thinking, but you get the impression that people came at it from already entrenched positions.So the vast majority of the pain from Covid-19’s fallout is being lumped on to three clubs.

Despite the sympathy I have for Hearts because of the brutal nature of the season ending early, it’s wrong to think the club are blameless in this mess.

The season has been a disaster and for a club of Hearts’ size, with that level of budget, to be sitting bottom even after 30 games is shocking.

Mismanagement happened at all levels, from Budge in the boardroom to the shambolic tenure of Craig Levein right through to current, and probably soon to be former, boss Daniel Stendel.

So many people have to share the blame. The Hearts fans will focus on the SPFL right now and the unfairness of the process.

But while they have a point, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Levein had a horror show as director of football and was even worse as manager, signing a ridiculous amount of players who were nowhere near good enough.

The revolving door of new signings, many way short of the standard needed at Hearts, sums up how the football side of the club was allowed to get out of control. Was there anyone in the boardroom overseeing and ever saying no? It never looked like it as Levein got free rein.

And, even when they finally sacked him, they walked into another mess of their own making.

The appointment of Stendel kidded some people on — and there are still fans who reckon he’d have turned it around.

But let’s be honest, he’s been a disaster too.

The German admitted he didn’t know anything about Scottish football and did little to convince he wanted the job in the first place.

It’s amazing to think anyone was convinced he was the right man at the right time. Hearts were third bottom, level on points with St Johnstone, when he came in.

Fast forward a few months and, when the league’s called, Saints will move into the top six — while Hearts are heading to the Championship.

So it’s not as though he inherited a lost cause, he had the time and backing to get it right and couldn’t.

Ultimately, Budge is the person who has presided over the whole thing.

She’s got plenty to reflect on — and it’s not just how they’ve been let down by the SPFL.

[jacomo]

He seems to be the one Jambo that's prepared to stand up and say it's all been a disaster. Not sure anyone will listen to him though, or even try to quantify how much has been spent. Ian, if you are reading this, it's around £28m that's been spent mate. Yes, you read that correctly, £28m. Of additional cash. Over and above the normal club takings of HMFC. It's a total shambles Ian. Have fun in the Tunnocks mate.


I’m no fan of Ian Murray, but at least he’s asking questions of Budge.

They have been an absolute shambles on and off the pitch since Robbie Neilson was sacked. Something for Jambos to reflect on.

[Peevemor]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relegation and can go an f*** themselves.

[Barney McGrew]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relagation and can go an f*** themselves.

The only teams making noise are the ones who’re either getting relegated or have missed the chance to get promoted through the playoffs - yet they accuse everyone else of self interest.

[jacomo]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relagation and can go an f*** themselves.


The task force didn’t even present a clear proposal to be voted on!

What other outcome were they expecting?

“Hi guys, after three weeks we’ve failed to agree on a reconstruction proposal, but please vote in favour of reconstruction anyhow and we will email you the reasons why it’s a good idea after the meeting.”

Total amateur hour from Budge and co.

[Rumble de Thump]

"After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her."

Didn't she release a statement calling them "sanctimoneous", "disrespectful", "outrageous", "shameful" etc?

[Barney McGrew]

"After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her."

Didn't she release a statement calling them "sanctimoneous", "disrespectful", "outrageous", "shameful" etc?

She’s got more faces than a Las Vegas poker table

[Crazyhorse]

The point of the original SPL was the top league breaking away, taking power and money with them.

It's now a totally different model.

Well P it’s clearly the same company and has a continuous history of operating since 1997. But I’m not sure why you are focusing on this. The key point is that Sevco suffered no punishment for their cheating. They should have been at a minimum stripped of all trophies won as a result of their illegal financial doping (my view is the all titles were won by a different now dead club) but I would have accepted that. The result of pretending they didn’t cheat is that it emboldened what was already a hate filled, arrogant and entitled monster. This weakness of will has and will continue to poison football in Scotland.

[mcohibs]

The task force didn’t even present a clear proposal to be voted on!

What other outcome were they expecting?

“Hi guys, after three weeks we’ve failed to agree on a reconstruction proposal, but please vote in favour of reconstruction anyhow and we will email you the reasons why it’s a good idea after the meeting.”

Total amateur hour from Budge and co.

This. The fact that a large chunk of the hearts support still back budge after her disastrous decision making this season is actually terrifying

[greenginger]

Michael Stewart reckons it would have been better to increase the top league for 2 or 3 seasons and then decide if it works.

Fails to mention, consider, or even care about the Sky TV contract or does he reckon Budge will sweet talk them into paying the same for any botched league set-up dreamt up at the last minute.

[Ozyhibby]

Michael Stewart reckons it would have been better to increase the top league for 2 or 3 seasons and then decide if it works.

Fails to mention, consider, or even care about the Sky TV contract or does he reckon Budge will sweet talk them into paying the same for any botched league set-up dreamt up at the last minute.

Why on earth would Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell or Killie vote to reduce our income for 3 years? Stewart never even acknowledges that it would cost clubs money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Well P it’s clearly the same company and has a continuous history of operating since 1997. But I’m not sure why you are focusing on this. The key point is that Sevco suffered no punishment for their cheating. They should have been at a minimum stripped of all trophies won as a result of their illegal financial doping (my view is the all titles were won by a different now dead club) but I would have accepted that. The result of pretending they didn’t cheat is that it emboldened what was already a hate filled, arrogant and entitled monster. This weakness of will has and will continue to poison football in Scotland.


I think the lesson from the Sevco debacle is that allowing them a fast track straight back into the League set up was a mistake.

The application from the newco should have been treated the same as any other brand new football club. It might have stopped their endless and erroneous bleating about being ‘punished’.

[Waxy]

Michael Stewart reckons it would have been better to increase the top league for 2 or 3 seasons and then decide if it works.

Fails to mention, consider, or even care about the Sky TV contract or does he reckon Budge will sweet talk them into paying the same for any botched league set-up dreamt up at the last minute.
Then hearts would have been the first to decide it doesn’t work.

[jacomo]

Michael Stewart reckons it would have been better to increase the top league for 2 or 3 seasons and then decide if it works.

Fails to mention, consider, or even care about the Sky TV contract or does he reckon Budge will sweet talk them into paying the same for any botched league set-up dreamt up at the last minute.


Michael Stewart glosses over this, really - he wanted to get to his main point, which is having a pop at Levein.

[The 90+2]

This. The fact that a large chunk of the hearts support still back budge after her disastrous decision making this season is actually terrifying

They have no alternative. At this stage they need her money to keep them going and still hide behind this amazing business woman jacket who has seemingly done such a wonderful job off the pitch (losing money each year if not topped up by Benny).

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Why on earth would Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell or Killie vote to reduce our income for 3 years? Stewart never even acknowledges that it would cost clubs money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:agree: Yeah, lets all loose money to bail out Hearts who've p!ssed theirs against a *****ty new stand whilst taken snide digs at their rivals. Where do we sign?

[jeffers]

As others have posted after a few weeks the working party still hadn’t come up with any proposals for league reconstruction but the clubs were supposed to vote on it anyway. WTF have they been doing, I would have thought they would at least have contacted Sky to gauge their thoughts on any reconstruction given the clubs will be even more reliant than ever on the money for the tv deal. I appreciate times are unusual and it’s not all down to Budge, but it’s typical of the (mis)management we’ve seen in her time at Hearts.

Let us not kid anyone regarding this, if they had been 2nd bottom we wouldn’t have heard a peep about reconstruction from them, apart from Michael Stewart on Saturday the rest of the Sportsound team acknowledged it.

Is it unfair, aye maybe a bit, but they’ve been the worst team in the league for arguably over a year so suck it up Jambos.

[Future17]

Why on earth would Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell or Killie vote to reduce our income for 3 years? Stewart never even acknowledges that it would cost clubs money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the part I don't understand. The relegated clubs are essentially saying all the other clubs should have taken an unquantified financial hit, over an unknown period, to help them out.

I do think it's unfair they were relegated in the manner they were, but there was never a realistic alternative.

[CapitalGreen]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relegation and can go an f*** themselves.

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.

[we are hibs]

Ann Budge " we werent driven by self interest but others were"



Also Ann Budge "lets change the leagues for a year to save Hearts!!!"



Silly old boot.

[JammyDoidger]

On the hearts subject, has anyone heard the bye bye jam tarts song floating around social media? It's superb.
ohh ho ho, cheerio, championship here we go, bye bye jam tarts:not worth:flag:!

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

:agree: Yeah, lets all loose money to bail out Hearts who've p!ssed theirs against a *****ty new stand whilst taken snide digs at their rivals. Where do we sign?

Exactly. Appoint a new manager and have a bizarre and unnecessary dig at Hibs in your welcoming statement then expect clubs such as Hibs to bend over and lose money to dig you out a hole? **** off

[Kavinho]

This is the part I don't understand. The relegated clubs are essentially saying all the other clubs should have taken an unquantified financial hit, over an unknown period, to help them out.

I do think it's unfair they were relegated in the manner they were, but there was never a realistic alternative.


It can't be that unfair when they've been the worst side and collected the least amount of points over a sustained period of well over a year.

Yes a few games have been missed, but they've been dreadful for a long long time now (except when playing against us....)

We really did do our best to help them but to no avail.
Shame ...

[Future17]

It can't be that unfair when they've been the worst side and collected the least amount of points over a sustained period of well over a year.

Yes a few games have been missed, but they've been dreadful for a long long time now (except when playing against us....)

We really did do our best to help them but to no avail.
Shame ...

The team that is relegated should be the team which has the least points over the course of a full season. That hasn't happened and I think that's unfair to the relegated teams. However, as I said above, I don't think there was a realistic alternative.

[007]

The S*n are this morning running a story where Ian Murray is having a pop at Dr Mrs Budge over the amount of money they’ve “wasted on reshaping the club time after time”

The infighting has started :greengrin

For once I agree with him. Only bit I didn't agree with was -
“We’re back, potentially, in the Championship"
Change potentially to almost definitely and then I'd completely agree.

Noticed Michael Stewart said on Saturday's Sportsound that he thought Stendel was a terrible appointment. He didn't expand on it and it was said in amongst a lot of other stuff.

[Kavinho]

The team that is relegated should be the team which has the least points over the course of a full season. That hasn't happened and I think that's unfair to the relegated teams. However, as I said above, I don't think there was a realistic alternative.

They've amassed the lowest number of points over the last season and a half


Clearly the worst side in the league and undoubtedly deserve to go down.

[Rumble de Thump]

Rules are rules. The season's over and they're comfortably bottom of league. The rules state they get relegated. Cheerio.

[Paisley Hibby]

This. The fact that a large chunk of the hearts support still back budge after her disastrous decision making this season is actually terrifying

Not terrifying. It's pleasing (as they would say). The longer they can't see what everyone else can the better. If there's a way of fekking up on getting promoted back up quickly then Budge is just the woman to find it, and in style 😂

[hibbyfraelibby]

The moral of the COVID story is the league has a rule that says the season is finished when the Board decide, not when all the games are played, so never ever find yourself in bottom spot.

[bringbackbenny]

The team that is relegated should be the team which has the least points over the course of a full season. That hasn't happened and I think that's unfair to the relegated teams. However, as I said above, I don't think there was a realistic alternative.

I know what you mean but the SPFL has the authority to determine when the season is 'complete' - and as it's extremely unlikely that the normal full season will now complete it'll be closed as complete. all written up front and perfectly logical and explainable in lieu of the current circumstances.

tough on Hearts but rules are rules and they can't not be applied just because it's Hearts that are in the crapper.

[Peevemor]

I know what you mean but the SPFL has the authority to determine when the season is 'complete' - and as it's extremely unlikely that the normal full season will now complete it'll be closed as complete. all written up front and perfectly logical and explainable in lieu of the current circumstances.

tough on Hearts but rules are rules and they can't not be applied just because it's Hearts that are in the crapper.

Especially when it's the clubs themselves that set the rules.

[jacomo]

On the hearts subject, has anyone heard the bye bye jam tarts song floating around social media? It's superb.
ohh ho ho, cheerio, championship here we go, bye bye jam tarts:not worth:flag:!


This yin?

https://mobile.twitter.com/hibbysmurf/status/1258874015298531329?s=21

[jacomo]

The team that is relegated should be the team which has the least points over the course of a full season. That hasn't happened and I think that's unfair to the relegated teams. However, as I said above, I don't think there was a realistic alternative.


Budge was given her week task force and the opportunity to come up with a new proposal.

She failed to do so. By her own admission, they didn’t have a plan to present to their fellow clubs.

So who’s fault is that?

[007]

"After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her."

Didn't she release a statement calling them "sanctimoneous", "disrespectful", "outrageous", "shameful" etc?

Yup. Seems a bit two-faced. Still any clubs feeling a bit guilty and sorry for Hearts probably got over it quickly once they read the Hearts statement.

[Barney McGrew]

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.

That’s hit the nail on the head right there :aok:

Obviously if we had any decent journalists left in Scotland they’d ask her that exact question, particularly given her last statement accuses other clubs of acting in their own self interests. But I think we all know that won’t happen.

[Keith_M]

....

Yes a few games have been missed, but they've been dreadful for a long long time now (except when playing against us....)

We really did do our best to help them but to no avail.
Shame ...



That's the bit that gets me.

Hibs did their utmost to help Hearts avoid relegation by gifting them six points and they STILL mucked it up.

Not even one word of thanks for our generosity, either.

[G B Young]

The S*n are this morning running a story where Ian Murray is having a pop at Dr Mrs Budge over the amount of money they’ve “wasted on reshaping the club time after time”

The infighting has startedi :greengrin

He's had one or two pops at them recently but this is definitely his hardest-hitting. I guess he's entitled to be raging after seeing the amount of work he put into helping the club back during the admin days go to waste. I recall he took plenty of flak for it, especially as Tynecastle's not even in his constituency.

The Sun and the Scotsman though present the same story very differently. The Sun (correctly) goes in hard on the way Budge has run the club into the ground by squandering millions, whereas Allisbarry buries the criticism of Budge at the bottom of his story and instead leads with how awful it is for the fans who ploughed so much cash into the club only to see them relegated again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52594690

[Waxy]

Michael Stewart in The Sun:

Hearts chief Ann Budge has been stitched up.. but she didn’t do herself any favours, says Michael Stewart

ANN BUDGE will spend much of the next few months thinking over what went wrong during this car crash of a season for Hearts.

And the wisdom of accepting a role heading the SPFL taskforce looking at reconstruction is surely something she will consider.

I can understand why Budge did it, with your fate sitting in so many other people’s hands it would have made sense to her to be inside the process rather than looking on and hoping.

And I’m sure she felt, deep down, that she could persuade people to see things her way.

After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her.

But, as the wreckage of reconstruction plans lie scattered across the floor, it’s hard not to feel she was stitched up.

It was far too easy for her to be painted as acting purely in self-interest, with comments about changing the structure in the past thrown back in her face.

Strategic errors, from making a 12-month reconstruction her aim at the outset to joining in on the battle against the SPFL, dogged her throughout.

And, with Scottish football facing financial ruin as well as being at war with itself over the botched vote and Rangers’ dossier, you always got the impression clubs would be more interested in other things right now.

That’s how it has panned out. But while everyone recognises the peril Scottish football is in, it is a shame our clubs couldn’t reach a consensus to help everyone. It’s not just Hearts, of course — Partick Thistle and Stranraer will be relegated without seeing out the season too, while the pyramid system has been abandoned for the year, leaving Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers stranded.

Self-interest and in- fighting have come to the fore again, as they always do in Scottish football, sadly.

I don’t see why we couldn’t have made a change to last two or three years, rather than insist on 12 months or it being locked in for the long term.

We could have tried it on a trial basis then let the clubs decide whether they thought it was working.

All it would have taken is a bit of forward thinking, but you get the impression that people came at it from already entrenched positions.So the vast majority of the pain from Covid-19’s fallout is being lumped on to three clubs.

Despite the sympathy I have for Hearts because of the brutal nature of the season ending early, it’s wrong to think the club are blameless in this mess.

The season has been a disaster and for a club of Hearts’ size, with that level of budget, to be sitting bottom even after 30 games is shocking.

Mismanagement happened at all levels, from Budge in the boardroom to the shambolic tenure of Craig Levein right through to current, and probably soon to be former, boss Daniel Stendel.

So many people have to share the blame. The Hearts fans will focus on the SPFL right now and the unfairness of the process.

But while they have a point, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Levein had a horror show as director of football and was even worse as manager, signing a ridiculous amount of players who were nowhere near good enough.

The revolving door of new signings, many way short of the standard needed at Hearts, sums up how the football side of the club was allowed to get out of control. Was there anyone in the boardroom overseeing and ever saying no? It never looked like it as Levein got free rein.

And, even when they finally sacked him, they walked into another mess of their own making.

The appointment of Stendel kidded some people on — and there are still fans who reckon he’d have turned it around.

But let’s be honest, he’s been a disaster too.

The German admitted he didn’t know anything about Scottish football and did little to convince he wanted the job in the first place.

It’s amazing to think anyone was convinced he was the right man at the right time. Hearts were third bottom, level on points with St Johnstone, when he came in.

Fast forward a few months and, when the league’s called, Saints will move into the top six — while Hearts are heading to the Championship.

So it’s not as though he inherited a lost cause, he had the time and backing to get it right and couldn’t.

Ultimately, Budge is the person who has presided over the whole thing.

She’s got plenty to reflect on — and it’s not just how they’ve been let down by the SPFL.
If only she didn’t listen to the hearts fans and kept Craig Levein, she would have been heading the reconstruction group trying to save St Mirren these last three weeks?

[007]

Michael Stewart in The Sun:

Hearts chief Ann Budge has been stitched up.. but she didn’t do herself any favours, says Michael Stewart

ANN BUDGE will spend much of the next few months thinking over what went wrong during this car crash of a season for Hearts.

And the wisdom of accepting a role heading the SPFL taskforce looking at reconstruction is surely something she will consider.

I can understand why Budge did it, with your fate sitting in so many other people’s hands it would have made sense to her to be inside the process rather than looking on and hoping.

And I’m sure she felt, deep down, that she could persuade people to see things her way.

After the talks collapsed, Budge emailed the 42 clubs saying she had no hard feelings. And that was very magnanimous of her.

But, as the wreckage of reconstruction plans lie scattered across the floor, it’s hard not to feel she was stitched up.

It was far too easy for her to be painted as acting purely in self-interest, with comments about changing the structure in the past thrown back in her face.

Strategic errors, from making a 12-month reconstruction her aim at the outset to joining in on the battle against the SPFL, dogged her throughout.

And, with Scottish football facing financial ruin as well as being at war with itself over the botched vote and Rangers’ dossier, you always got the impression clubs would be more interested in other things right now.

That’s how it has panned out. But while everyone recognises the peril Scottish football is in, it is a shame our clubs couldn’t reach a consensus to help everyone. It’s not just Hearts, of course — Partick Thistle and Stranraer will be relegated without seeing out the season too, while the pyramid system has been abandoned for the year, leaving Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers stranded.

Self-interest and in- fighting have come to the fore again, as they always do in Scottish football, sadly.

I don’t see why we couldn’t have made a change to last two or three years, rather than insist on 12 months or it being locked in for the long term.

We could have tried it on a trial basis then let the clubs decide whether they thought it was working.

All it would have taken is a bit of forward thinking, but you get the impression that people came at it from already entrenched positions.So the vast majority of the pain from Covid-19’s fallout is being lumped on to three clubs.

Despite the sympathy I have for Hearts because of the brutal nature of the season ending early, it’s wrong to think the club are blameless in this mess.

The season has been a disaster and for a club of Hearts’ size, with that level of budget, to be sitting bottom even after 30 games is shocking.

Mismanagement happened at all levels, from Budge in the boardroom to the shambolic tenure of Craig Levein right through to current, and probably soon to be former, boss Daniel Stendel.

So many people have to share the blame. The Hearts fans will focus on the SPFL right now and the unfairness of the process.

But while they have a point, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Levein had a horror show as director of football and was even worse as manager, signing a ridiculous amount of players who were nowhere near good enough.

The revolving door of new signings, many way short of the standard needed at Hearts, sums up how the football side of the club was allowed to get out of control. Was there anyone in the boardroom overseeing and ever saying no? It never looked like it as Levein got free rein.

And, even when they finally sacked him, they walked into another mess of their own making.

The appointment of Stendel kidded some people on — and there are still fans who reckon he’d have turned it around.

But let’s be honest, he’s been a disaster too.

The German admitted he didn’t know anything about Scottish football and did little to convince he wanted the job in the first place.

It’s amazing to think anyone was convinced he was the right man at the right time. Hearts were third bottom, level on points with St Johnstone, when he came in.

Fast forward a few months and, when the league’s called, Saints will move into the top six — while Hearts are heading to the Championship.

So it’s not as though he inherited a lost cause, he had the time and backing to get it right and couldn’t.

Ultimately, Budge is the person who has presided over the whole thing.

She’s got plenty to reflect on — and it’s not just how they’ve been let down by the SPFL.

The beginnings of common sense is starting to return to Michael Stewart.

Budge stating temporary reconstruction before discussions kicked off - huge mistake.

Being joint leader or the working party- big mistake. Be one of the group yes but not the joint leader. I can just imagine the patronising tone on the Zoom calls.

Backing Rangers in their crusade against the SPFL was a big mistake and probably helped reinforce the reason given by Dave Cormack as to why reconstruction talks were shelved i.e. to focus on getting football back up and running. Budge being joint leader strengthened this reasoning.

Not mentioned by MS but saying you shouldn't get the title if you haven't played all the games was also a big mistake and probably lost her the chance of support from Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove.

The one bit I agree with Ann Budge on is the prime reason is probably the Sky deal and rightly so but I don't know why Dave Cormack didn't refer to that too. The Sky deal is crucial and in these uncertain times it is even more vital and must be protected, particularly if up to £10m will have to be paid back for the incomplete season (thanks Rangers for making it more likely to be closer to £10m than it would have been). All SPFL clubs will need as much money as possible so to jeopardise such a big amount of income to rescue the worst clubs in the leagues from relegation would be madness.

[Green_one]

Not terrifying. It's pleasing (as they would say). The longer they can't see what everyone else can the better. If there's a way of fekking up on getting promoted back up quickly then Budge is just the woman to find it, and in style 😂

Budge is a gift that will keep on giving to us. When the Hearts supporters finally realise that, we can then look forward to an ugly transfer of power. They will then mess it up themselves for a period. Gonna be a fun ride.

[Caversham Green]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relegation and can go an f*** themselves.

The fact that the proposal (or lack thereof) was a temporary restructure tells us that even she didn't believe it was the best possible set-up. The only conclusion to be drawn from that is that it was purely a Save Hearts In Trouble proposal.

[Rumble de Thump]

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.

[NASAHIBS]

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.
100% this.

[Hibernian Verse]

If Heart of Midlothian was a person you'd actually have them sent to rehab by a GP.

[Irish_Steve]

I`m really worried though because according to Brokeback, because we have gone down the route of wage deferral, we will go to the wall before them.

Its been nice knowing you all (well, except for the git that i used to sit beside in the FF Lower who would criticise everything Lewis did, even to the point of blaming LS when he wasn`t on the pitch lol)

[Future17]

They've amassed the lowest number of points over the last season and a half


Clearly the worst side in the league and undoubtedly deserve to go down.

I'm not sure how you're calculating that, as this season hasn't finished yet, but even if true, they didn't have the lowest number of points over one full season...which is usually how relegation is decided.

[Hibernian Verse]

I`m really worried though because according to Brokeback, because we have gone down the route of wage deferral, we will go to the wall before them.

Its been nice knowing you all (well, except for the git that i used to sit beside in the FF Lower who would criticise everything Lewis did, even to the point of blaming LS when he wasn`t on the pitch lol)

We will just start the club again and claim we still have the Scottish from 2016 so it's fine.

[Future17]

I know what you mean but the SPFL has the authority to determine when the season is 'complete' - and as it's extremely unlikely that the normal full season will now complete it'll be closed as complete. all written up front and perfectly logical and explainable in lieu of the current circumstances.

tough on Hearts but rules are rules and they can't not be applied just because it's Hearts that are in the crapper.

I totally agree with that. I suppose it just depends how you interpret what is "fair" in a particular set of circumstances. It's not fair that they've been relegated without finishing bottom across a full season, but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to happen when the entire context is taken into account.

[Bostonhibby]

We will just start the club again and claim we still have the Scottish from 2016 so it's fine.Most maroon balloons in my life have had us going bust for decades and for no reason that stands up, meantime we've had the entertainment of the pre admin Hearts putting themselves into administration with the stigma of that quite incredible creditors list and all the chaos associated with their current owner blowing all that money.

Do we need to say anymore?

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[Hibernian Verse]

Most maroon balloons in my life have had us going bust for decades and for no reason that stands up, meantime we've had the entertainment of the pre admin Hearts putting themselves into administration with the stigma of that quite incredible creditors list and all the chaos associated with their current owner blowing all that money.

Do we need to say anymore?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkWhen you put it like that you just have to feel sorry for them.





















Actually, nah.

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[jacomo]

I totally agree with that. I suppose it just depends how you interpret what is "fair" in a particular set of circumstances. It's not fair that they've been relegated without finishing bottom across a full season, but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to happen when the entire context is taken into account.


IMO it’s harsh, but it’s not unfair.

Unfair would be relegating another team instead of Hearts, or denying Dundee Utd their promotion.

Everyone knew the rules when the season started. The team that finishes bottom of the Premier league goes down, and the club that finishes top of the Championship goes up. And the season is all but finished...

[MrSmith]

IMO it’s harsh, but it’s not unfair.

Unfair would be relegating another team instead of Hearts, or denying Dundee Utd their promotion.

Everyone knew the rules when the season started. The team that finishes bottom of the Premier league goes down, and the club that finishes top of the Championship goes up. And the season is all but finished...

Unfair to me would be spending money you don't have on players to attain an unfair sporting advantage. Unfair to me is teams not paying taxes and bumping their creditors once in administration and finally the worst one, unfair is lying about your finances (going concern anyone?) until the end of a season to ensure a points deduction did not occur therefore, demoting another team.

[Aldo]

Unfair to me would be spending money you don't have on players to attain an unfair sporting advantage. Unfair to me is teams not paying taxes and bumping their creditors once in administration and finally the worst one, unfair is lying about your finances (going concern anyone?) until the end of a season to ensure a points deduction did not occur therefore, demoting another team.

Spot on.

Saved me the effort.


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[Waxy]

Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman%60s_Statement_&ID=11909

[FilipinoHibs]

Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman%60s_Statement_&ID=11909

As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.

[GonzoReturns]

As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.

Wonder if Chuckys bitch English will be writing a story about this statement!!!

[Rumble de Thump]

So Tom English is Saruman?

Tom English would have to be King Theoden, or perhaps an uncredited orc.

[HFC93]

A side point, but I've been really impressed with how Hibs have conducted themselves during this whole affair. Particularly by the fact that we don't realse a statement every five minutes. We're probably in League 2 of the statement league, which highlights the professionalism of those behind the scenes in my opinion.

[GonzoReturns]

The beginnings of common sense is starting to return to Michael Stewart.

Budge stating temporary reconstruction before discussions kicked off - huge mistake.

Being joint leader or the working party- big mistake. Be one of the group yes but not the joint leader. I can just imagine the patronising tone on the Zoom calls.

Backing Rangers in their crusade against the SPFL was a big mistake and probably helped reinforce the reason given by Dave Cormack as to why reconstruction talks were shelved i.e. to focus on getting football back up and running. Budge being joint leader strengthened this reasoning.

Not mentioned by MS but saying you shouldn't get the title if you haven't played all the games was also a big mistake and probably lost her the chance of support from Celtic, Dundee United, Raith and Cove.

The one bit I agree with Ann Budge on is the prime reason is probably the Sky deal and rightly so but I don't know why Dave Cormack didn't refer to that too. The Sky deal is crucial and in these uncertain times it is even more vital and must be protected, particularly if up to £10m will have to be paid back for the incomplete season (thanks Rangers for making it more likely to be closer to £10m than it would have been). All SPFL clubs will need as much money as possible so to jeopardise such a big amount of income to rescue the worst clubs in the leagues from relegation would be madness.


The thing is you can only flog a dead horse for so long. Guys like Stewart have to realise they are paid to talk about Scottish football and in particular the top flight. If they piss off the top flight clubs and keep talking up a Championship club then they alienate themselves and whose going to be interested in their views. Fine go on sportsound when it’s a focus on the Championship and talk up Hearts then.

[Bostonhibby]

As most suspected by the Inverness CEO's tone on Sportsound, it was he who was the bully.What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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[Ozyhibby]

What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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The guy who forgot to order seats? Hard to believe.[emoji23]


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Dunfermline statement
http://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman%60s_Statement_&ID=11909

ooft, take that mr caley bully boy, how embarrassing is that

[Jakhog1]

A side point, but I've been really impressed with how Hibs have conducted themselves during this whole affair. Particularly by the fact that we don't realse a statement every five minutes. We're probably in League 2 of the statement league, which highlights the professionalism of those behind the scenes in my opinion.

That is spot on, I would be worried if we were having to release utter nonsense every week, just shows how smooth and professional is run at Hibs, the only time we release something it is positive especially with the NHS

[Hibernian Verse]

I'd like to see us posting "CLUB STATEMENT" on all media platforms with the contents a simple message that they hope the fans are staying safe & well during a pandemic which puts football into perspective.

Ultimate troll.

[Bostonhibby]

The guy who forgot to order seats? Hard to believe.[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'd always had a bit of respect for how Inverness got into the league and stayed there but how they managed to appoint this one is difficult to understand.

He's either involved in some of the skulduggery or having his strings pulled.

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[Jakhog1]

Also the nice touch of Hibs players and coaching staff phoning around to see how people are doing, what a club

[Waxy]

I'd like to see us posting "CLUB STATEMENT" on all media platforms with the contents a simple message that they hope the fans are staying safe & well during a pandemic which puts football into perspective.

Ultimate troll.

Quite happy for us to say nothing.We dont have to. Just bring out positive things that only concerns us and our supporters. That’ll do me.

[James Stephen]

If there are to be solidarity payments to the clubs that lose out financially due to the premature end of the season, should Hibs not get some too for losing 6th place?

As far as i can tell, Hibs are the only team to be penalised a place?

[04Sauzee]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

[007]

I'm getting sick of this "self interest" thing being chucked in our (and other clubs') faces.

If expanding the premiership to 14 teams or whatever doesn't suit us, for whatever reasons, we are right to vote against it.

Hearts merit relegation and can go an f*** themselves.


The only teams making noise are the ones who’re either getting relegated or have missed the chance to get promoted through the playoffs - yet they accuse everyone else of self interest.

The repeated use of it backfired on them as the other clubs saw the hypocrisy of it.

[JimBHibees]

For once I agree with him. Only bit I didn't agree with was -
“We’re back, potentially, in the Championship"
Change potentially to almost definitely and then I'd completely agree.

Noticed Michael Stewart said on Saturday's Sportsound that he thought Stendel was a terrible appointment. He didn't expand on it and it was said in amongst a lot of other stuff.

Think Stewart is close to Christophe so probably heard a few things.

[Barney McGrew]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

Another well thought out reply, which again points out the self interest by the loudest protagonists.

[JimBHibees]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

About time some of the 80 odd per cent of clubs who voted yes spoke out.

[hibeerealist]

Another well thought out reply, which again points out the self interest by the loudest protagonists.


The ones making the noise are of course, the losers!

[calumhibee1]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

Well done Clyde. 18 points clear of bottom place, 8 clear off the play offs yet they’d have been relegated.

And Hearts etc are claiming no club should be punished yet that’s what they think we should go with? I didn’t think it would be possible but I’m ten times happier they’re being relegated like this than if they’d just been ***** and finished bottom.

[007]

The task force didn’t even present a clear proposal to be voted on!

What other outcome were they expecting?

“Hi guys, after three weeks we’ve failed to agree on a reconstruction proposal, but please vote in favour of reconstruction anyhow and we will email you the reasons why it’s a good idea after the meeting.”

Total amateur hour from Budge and co.

The Sportsound pundits at the weekend said they had a good idea about a week ago reconstruction would fall through. If Sportsound knew it then Budge should have had the savvy to know it too and should have sent her email round the clubs before the meeting.

[BH Hibs]

I'd always had a bit of respect for how Inverness got into the league and stayed there but how they managed to appoint this one is difficult to understand.

He's either involved in some of the skulduggery or having his strings pulled.

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He's just a chancer who thought he could somehow get his club promoted despite being miles behind in the league and he is now being called out for what he is.

[007]

What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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What the ex-Hearts an Rangers guy? Surely not?

[007]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

Exactly and if asked by the Sportsound presenter, him and Michael Stewart would probably answer that there is no perfect solution for all clubs and that 14-14-14(or 16) was the one that impacted clubs the least.

[JimBHibees]

He's just a chancer who thought he could somehow get his club promoted despite being miles behind in the league and he is now being called out for what he is.

Maybe robbo put a word in for him. Dirtiest team Hibs played last season imo. Miracle boyler didnt leave the ground on crutches.

[JeMeSouviens]

What a contrast between Dunfermline's straightforward response and the Inverness position which is really a series of cobbled together sections of discussions to attempt to meet a preconceived aim.

There's a real stench of incompetence at best around their guy.

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Is he not supposed to be angling for a job at Sevco? Made for each other.

[Bostonhibby]

Is he not supposed to be angling for a job at Sevco? Made for each other.Seems the type for sure.

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[jacomo]

ooft, take that mr caley bully boy, how embarrassing is that


Bully doesn’t get his own way so goes to daddy and complains about being bullied. Daddy throws his weight around like a prick, making all sorts of unfounded accusations and demanding an investigation, but only if it supports his view.

Sevco and the rest can p*** right off.

[Crazyhorse]

Budge is a gift that will keep on giving to us. When the Hearts supporters finally realise that, we can then look forward to an ugly transfer of power. They will then mess it up themselves for a period. Gonna be a fun ride.

I think the time has come for her to hand it over to the mob. They will run things much better...

[Heisenberg]

Good stuff from the Dunfermline chairman. Clubs like Inverness and Rangers have been allowed to spout whatever rubbish they wanted unchallenged for the past few weeks.

[Since452]

The Dunfermline Chairman has summed up exactly how I feel about it. Exasperated at these snivelling greetin faced clubs.

[JeMeSouviens]

The sheer brass neck of Budge whining about "self interest" is really quite something.

[04Sauzee]

On twitter

Aberdeen preparing to confirm their support for a Rangers resolution seeking an Independent Investigation into SPFL actions.

[JeMeSouviens]

On twitter

Aberdeen preparing to confirm their support for a Rangers resolution seeking an Independent Investigation into SPFL actions.

tbh, if the New Huns are footing the bill, I'm all in favour too.

[JammyDoidger]

This yin?

https://mobile.twitter.com/hibbysmurf/status/1258874015298531329?s=21

No it's not that one, I got it sent on a voice clip on fb messenger. To the song celtic sing bye bye rangers. It's Absoloutely brilliant. Imagining a packed hibs support singing it!

[Waxy]

tbh, if the New Huns are footing the bill, I'm all in favour too.

If Hibs felt it was the thing to do then i’d happily go along with it.
I’d end the season first though and make sure it really was independant.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I'd always had a bit of respect for how Inverness got into the league and stayed there but how they managed to appoint this one is difficult to understand.

He's either involved in some of the skulduggery or having his strings pulled.

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Both.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Clyde statement, im sure Tom English won't give this much attention

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/11/6418/#.XrlNp1PTVkw

The mice are begining to roar.

Budge would do well to ponder the wisdom of burning her bridges whilst afloat on a boat in a smelly creek sans paddles.

[007]

Ann Budge says she wasn’t driven purely by self-interest. If that was the case, why did she not continue pursuing reconstruction for the lower leagues after it was made clear there would be no changes to the Premiership? That she was no more longer bothered about helping the smaller clubs reeks of self-interest. Once there was nothing in it for her she left them high and dry.

As has been mentioned, she could have pushed for a 12-12-10-10 system which would have had no financial impact on the Premiership and would have satisfied all other aggrieved teams with the exception of ICT.

Yup.

Plus, if it wasn't about self-interest, now that reconstruction isn't happening, surely mention of the subject will be dropped altogether as will thoughts of taking further legal advice/action. What do you think chances of that happening are?

[007]

If Heart of Midlothian was a person you'd actually have them sent to rehab by a GP.

I'd send them to Switzerland for Dignitas.

[Hibernian Verse]

I'd send them to Switzerland for Dignitas.Hahaha there's always that

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[hibbyfraelibby]

I'd send them to Switzerland for Dignitas.

...is that after their wee visit to the Court of Arbitration in Sport in Lausanne, or instead of it?

[Since452]

I'd send them to Switzerland for Dignitas.

That would be right up their street. They're used to not paying tax.

[hibeerealist]

Yup.

Plus, if it wasn't about self-interest, now that reconstruction isn't happening, surely mention of the subject will be dropped altogether as will thoughts of taking further legal advice/action. What do you think chances of that happening are?

Dr Budgie on dangerous ground now as she knows legal action is a no no (in football/sport), however, the "wee cousins bereft of bus fares" collectively now demand she does exactly that!

Huge dilemma for her now allied to their finances it is reasonable to assume that she is not sleeping well.

[Waxy]

Dr Budgie on dangerous ground now as she knows legal action is a no no (in football/sport), however, the "wee cousins bereft of bus fares" collectively now demand she does exactly that!

Huge dilemma for her now allied to their finances it is reasonable to assume that she is not sleeping well.

Think she’s going to get out asap now.

[147lothian]

Out of all the total roasters on manypointsback Ex member of the SaS has to take the biscuit this is what he posted an hour ago

"The thing is, it may not be required, if things come to a head then there will then be time for action. Clubs may well fold before we have to go down this route, BUT go down it we must if and when the time is right".

[Aldo]

I have a feeling the leagues going to get calling tomorrow!


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[hibeerealist]

Think she’s going to get out asap now.

I would imagine her family, close friends and trusted advisers are begging her to do just that ASAP!!

[Seveno]

When are these people going to get it into their thick heads that every club will be ‘punished’ because of Covid-19. Indeed, virtually every business, every part of society and every individual - some to the extent of losing their lives.

Relegation will cost Hearts a lot of money because they have been an awful team for the last 15 months, had a succession of clueless managers for two years and a grossly incompetent Chief Executive for the last 4 years.

[CockneyRebel]

Out of all the total roasters on manypointsback Ex member of the SaS has to take the biscuit this is what he posted an hour ago

"The thing is, it may not be required, if things come to a head then there will then be time for action. Clubs may well fold before we have to go down this route, BUT go down it we must if and when the time is right".


Just out of curiosity, is it a given that if a club goes bust then Hertz automatically take their place? I assume it would have to be a Premier league side but why would they get to take their place and not,say, second spot team from championship? They would,surely, have to be invited and they ain't made many friends of late. It may need a vote from the other clubs to endorse the invitation - that would be fun.

[Keith_M]

Partick Thistle have also called for an Inquiry. So far it seems to be mostly clubs that feel they're being hard done by.


FWIW, I'd happily support an Inquiry as well, as long as they declare the league finished first.

[Ozyhibby]

Just out of curiosity, is it a given that if a club goes bust then Hertz automatically take their place? I assume it would have to be a Premier league side but why would they get to take their place and not,say, second spot team from championship? They would,surely, have to be invited and they ain't made many friends of late. It may need a vote from the other clubs to endorse the invitation - that would be fun.

Once the league is called and they are relegated then they don’t get any preference.


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[Future17]

tbh, if the New Huns are footing the bill, I'm all in favour too.

I can see the argument in favour of an inquiry (drawing a line under events) but I think that's naive optimism. I also think its independence would be called into question if The Rangers alone were to pay for it.

The biggest stumbling block for me though is that The Rangers have recently proven they can't be trusted with a duty of confidentiality - why should any Club, or the organisation as a whole, trust them further with information which may be commercially sensitive? I suspect it would also be a major turn-off for potential sponsors of both the leagues and the clubs.

[The 90+2]

I have a feeling the leagues going to get calling tomorrow!


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I’ve a feeling it’s all going to go tits up tomorrow.

[Ozyhibby]

I can see the argument in favour of an inquiry (drawing a line under events) but I think that's naive optimism. I also think its independence would be called into question if The Rangers alone were to pay for it.

The biggest stumbling block for me though is that The Rangers have recently proven they can't be trusted with a duty of confidentiality - why should any Club, or the organisation as a whole, trust them further with information which may be commercially sensitive? I suspect it would also be a major turn-off for potential sponsors of both the leagues and the clubs.

Biggest reason not to have an inquiry is that there is no evidence of wrong doing.
Biggest reason to have one is that the governance of the game is poor overall.
Voting for the resolution tomorrow is not the way forward because the inquiry proposed is to narrow in scope and there is no evidence to back up any of the claims.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Just out of curiosity, is it a given that if a club goes bust then Hertz automatically take their place? I assume it would have to be a Premier league side but why would they get to take their place and not,say, second spot team from championship? They would,surely, have to be invited and they ain't made many friends of late. It may need a vote from the other clubs to endorse the invitation - that would be fun.

If a club goes into administration (and assuming the league has been called), that club will get a 15 point penalty next season in the Premiership.

If the league hasn't been called, the penalty kicks in immediately, and Hearts might escape.

If a club stops trading, then again timing is important. If the league hasn't been called, I'd expect every other club in the entire SPFL to shuffle up; Hearts would escape and United would be in the Premiership. How they decide who comes in to the bottom league... :confused:

If the league has been called, it would be anyone's guess. I don't think the rules cover that, but "invitations" don't apply in the SPFL (unlike the previous SPL/SFL situation.)

[HoboHarry]

I’ve a feeling it’s all going to go tits up tomorrow.
In what way?

[Kavinho]

I'm not sure how you're calculating that, as this season hasn't finished yet, but even if true, they didn't have the lowest number of points over one full season...which is usually how relegation is decided.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50958324

Here's one article that looks at the calendar year of 2019, added to what we know of the Stendel reign in 2020


"In fact, their record is - by a distance - the worst of any club who have spent the entire year in the division. Only Ross County and Dundee, who each only played half a season after swapping places in the summer, have accumulated fewer top-tier points."

38 played, 28 points earned. 9 points worse than anyone else (Hamilton).

Relegation form, absolutely unequivocally.

[Ozyhibby]

If a club goes into administration (and assuming the league has been called), that club will get a 15 point penalty next season in the Premiership.

If the league hasn't been called, the 15 point kicks in immediately, and Hearts might escape.

If a club stops trading, then again timing is important. If the league hasn't been called, I'd expect every other club in the entire SPFL to shuffle up; Hearts would escape and United would be in the Premiership. How they decide who comes in to the bottom league... :confused:

If the league has been called, it would be anyone's guess. I don't think the rules cover that, but "invitations" don't apply in the SPFL (unlike the previous SPL/SFL situation.)

I’d love St. Mirren to do a pre pack admin the day after the league is called and take a 15 point penalty next season when it is no benefit to Hearts. Then claw back the 15 points to catch Hamilton and defeat Hearts in next seasons play off.


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[rossevenil]

Have they blamed Carole Baskin yet?

[Since452]

I’d love St. Mirren to do a pre pack admin the day after the league is called and take a 15 point penalty next season when it is no benefit to Hearts. Then claw back the 15 points to catch Hamilton and defeat Hearts in next seasons play off.


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Hahahaha image the meltdown in Gorgie

[Orchard_Hibs]

Have they blamed Carole Baskin yet?

Hahaha, should cover them all fish oil

[The 90+2]

In what way?

Resignations accusations fights demands the whole shebang. If they get 15-20 clubs to support this investigation I can’t see that being it all finished that’s for sure, especially when it’s now evident clubs can do and say what they like against anyone and get away with it.

[Aldo]

I’ve a feeling it’s all going to go tits up tomorrow.

Don’t worry about the independent inquiry. If it happens it happens.

Just remember the votes already been cast and their fate has been decided. It’s only a matter of time!

Have a bit of confidence!


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[Rumble de Thump]

How many millions of pounds have been gifted to Hearts by fans and mystery benefactors? It must easily be more than £10 million in the past few years. If that kind of money had been donated to the likes of Hamiliton or St Mirren I would expect those clubs to use the cash wisely, primarily to secure their longterm future. Hearts threw their dosh at the likes of glass curtains and Malaury Martin. With the finance gifted to them they should be in a better position than any other club to cope with the impact of the pandemic. The fact they are struggling more than any other club highlights the gross financial mismanagement.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200511/33bb55629cbab6ef8607b258bbcf3a47.jpg


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[Sammy7nil]

If a club goes into administration (and assuming the league has been called), that club will get a 15 point penalty next season in the Premiership.

If the league hasn't been called, the penalty kicks in immediately, and Hearts might escape.

If a club stops trading, then again timing is important. If the league hasn't been called, I'd expect every other club in the entire SPFL to shuffle up; Hearts would escape and United would be in the Premiership. How they decide who comes in to the bottom league... :confused:

If the league has been called, it would be anyone's guess. I don't think the rules cover that, but "invitations" don't apply in the SPFL (unlike the previous SPL/SFL situation.)

I thought there was new rule that takes account of the Covid:19 crisis that means no club will be deducted 15 points of that is the reason for their administration.

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought there was new rule that takes account of the Covid:19 crisis that means no club will be deducted 15 points of that is the reason for their administration.

You might be right. It's passed me by if so.

Better news then :aok:

Edit. I've tried to find something that says so, but haven't so far. Any clues as to when this was decided?

[jacomo]

I thought there was new rule that takes account of the Covid:19 crisis that means no club will be deducted 15 points of that is the reason for their administration.


Yes I think that’s the case.

[HFC93]

How many millions of pounds have been gifted to Hearts by fans and mystery benefactors? It must easily be more than £10 million in the past few years. If that kind of money had been donated to the likes of Hamiliton or St Mirren I would expect those clubs to use the cash wisely, primarily to secure their longterm future. Hearts threw their dosh at the likes of glass curtains and Malaury Martin. With the finance gifted to them they should be in a better position than any other club to cope with the impact of the pandemic. The fact they are struggling more than any other club highlights the gross financial mismanagement.

Going by Hearts record of spending money they will end up hiring Lionel Hutz to take on the case.

[Ozyhibby]

You might be right. It's passed me by if so.

Better news then :aok:

Edit. I've tried to find something that says so, but haven't so far. Any clues as to when this was decided?

I think it was talked about but nothing has been passed. Getting any vote through the spfl is a major operation these days.


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[Irish_Steve]

Looks like the Pars will be another team not benefiting from the mythical maroon pound!

[Future17]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50958324

Here's one article that looks at the calendar year of 2019, added to what we know of the Stendel reign in 2020


"In fact, their record is - by a distance - the worst of any club who have spent the entire year in the division. Only Ross County and Dundee, who each only played half a season after swapping places in the summer, have accumulated fewer top-tier points."

38 played, 28 points earned. 9 points worse than anyone else (Hamilton).

Relegation form, absolutely unequivocally.

Again, not disagreeing with that, but nobody ever got relegated based on form. That's also not a season and a half - I get that's semantics though.

To me, the argument that the outcome of a season can be determined after 30 matches of a 38-match season is similar to saying the outcome of a game could be called at 79 minutes...and I'd have hated that to have happened in May 2016. :greengrin

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Again, not disagreeing with that, but nobody ever got relegated based on form. That's also not a season and a half - I get that's semantics though.

To me, the argument that the outcome of a season can be determined after 30 matches of a 38-match season is similar to saying the outcome of a game could be called at 79 minutes...and I'd have hated that to have happened in May 2016. :greengrin

Whilst it’s easy to draw a comparison on historical results, you can’t really compare an existing pandemic to a historical game. It could be argued that this years Scottish Cup has been prematurely ended with us having the possibility of winning the cup again.

[hibeerealist]

If a club goes into administration (and assuming the league has been called), that club will get a 15 point penalty next season in the Premiership.

If the league hasn't been called, the penalty kicks in immediately, and Hearts might escape.

If a club stops trading, then again timing is important. If the league hasn't been called, I'd expect every other club in the entire SPFL to shuffle up; Hearts would escape and United would be in the Premiership. How they decide who comes in to the bottom league... :confused:

If the league has been called, it would be anyone's guess. I don't think the rules cover that, but "invitations" don't apply in the SPFL (unlike the previous SPL/SFL situation.)

Shirley, in the spirit of fairness (that our pink chums are banging the drum over) the team second in the Championship would secure that spot as they are next in line taking account of sporting ....whatever????

Do we have a seconder for this motion, actually I sincerely hope that it IS in the rules?

On this basis Hertz would need 10 clubs to go co co before they qualified to come up to the SPL.

GGTTH

[Jim44]

Looks like the Pars will be another team not benefiting from the mythical maroon pound!

All their crap about boycotting is just emotional knee-jerking. Once the muppets realise that their support at matches, both home and away, is needed, if they are going to stand any chance of securing results which will bounce them back to the big boys’ league, they will change their tune. Support for their team is more important than filling the coffers of away opponents. Ars****es.

[Hibs4185]

Again, not disagreeing with that, but nobody ever got relegated based on form. That's also not a season and a half - I get that's semantics though.

To me, the argument that the outcome of a season can be determined after 30 matches of a 38-match season is similar to saying the outcome of a game could be called at 79 minutes...and I'd have hated that to have happened in May 2016. :greengrin

If only the season had been called one game early in 1986 you might’ve been happy.

[Future17]

Whilst it’s easy to draw a comparison on historical results, you can’t really compare an existing pandemic to a historical game. It could be argued that this years Scottish Cup has been prematurely ended with us having the possibility of winning the cup again.

I've maybe misunderstood your point, but mine was that you can't know the outcome of a sporting contest with 20% of it left to go, irrespective of what has occurred in the first 80%.

There's loads of examples (including in the context of football relegation) where applying that method would have produced a different outcome to what actually transpired.

[Future17]

If only the season had been called one game early in 1986 you might’ve been happy.

Easy now! :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

I've maybe misunderstood your point, but mine was that you can't know the outcome of a sporting contest with 20% of it left to go, irrespective of what has occurred in the first 80%.

You can in cricket if you use the Lewis Duckworth method. Applying that to football, Hearts are down.

[cookin_on_gaz]

You might be right. It's passed me by if so.

Better news then :aok:

Edit. I've tried to find something that says so, but haven't so far. Any clues as to when this was decided?Force majeure is written in the rules concerning going into admin; so no penalty will be applied

Sent from my AGS-W09 using Tapatalk

[Future17]

You can in cricket if you use the Lewis Duckworth method. Applying that to football, Hearts are down.

But we've never applied such a method to football and it doesn't work in this scenario.

[PatHead]

But we've never applied such a method to football and it doesn't work in this scenario.

Works fine for me. Worst reason for not doing something is because we have never done it before.

[CropleyWasGod]

Force majeure is written in the rules concerning going into admin; so no penalty will be applied

Sent from my AGS-W09 using Tapatalk

Cheers.

But is there a case for saying that, for Hearts ( and, perhaps other clubs) insolvency had less to do with CV than abject financial management? In which case FM doesn't apply.

Please say yes.

[cookin_on_gaz]

Cheers.

But is there a case for saying that, for Hearts ( and, perhaps other clubs) insolvency had less to do with CV than abject financial management? In which case FM doesn't apply.

Please say yes.Lol that I don't know but what will be interesting is when does FM stop and abject failure begin. I would imagine that any clubs facing admin will be safe up until we can see fans back in grounds.

Sent from my AGS-W09 using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Looks like the Pars will be another team not benefiting from the mythical maroon pound!Any maroon pounds kicking around spare will need to be stuffed into the hearts big red coo for the foreseeable future I think.

They do seem to have a liking for inserting their small change into defenceless farmyard animals so it should go well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Sergio sledge]

I thought there was new rule that takes account of the Covid:19 crisis that means no club will be deducted 15 points of that is the reason for their administration.

I think that there's always been mention of "Force Majeure" in the SPFL regulations regarding insolvency events, I genuinely cannot see the SPFL enforcing the 15 point penalty on anyone under the current circumstances.

"E7 A Club may, on the grounds set out in Rule E8, appeal to an Appeal Tribunal against a deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E4 (inclusive).

E8 The only grounds on which a Club may appeal in terms of Rule E7 are that:

E8.1 it, or, as the case may be, its owner and operator and/or a Group Undertaking of such owner and operator, has not taken, suffered or been subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event;
E8.2 Rule E4 did not apply and any deductions of points in terms of Rules E2 or E3 should be 15 points and 5 points and not 25 points and 15 points respectively; and/or
E8.3 the Deductible Insolvency Event, which resulted in the points deduction or deductions against which the appeal is made, arose as a result of a Force Majeure Event."

"E14 An Appeal Tribunal shall have power to:-
E14.1 confirm any deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E4 inclusive;
E14.2 set aside any deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E4 inclusive and, where it determines that there has been a Force Majeure Event substitute a deduction of such lower number of points as it shall consider appropriate; or
E14.3 set aside any deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E4 inclusive. "

"Force Majeure Event is an event, which is determined by an Appeal Tribunal to have been unforeseeable and unavoidable; "

The clubs would have to have documentation and evidence that they wouldn't have gone into administration if it wasn't for Covid 19. I'd hope that the appeal tribunal would be able to differentiate between a genuine force majeure reason and a club trying to pull a fast one to shed some expensive players contracts before relegation to a lower division...

[Bostonhibby]

But we've never applied such a method to football and it doesn't work in this scenario.Please don't guys, It'll only end up with Mrs doctor Budge's task force recommending everyone plays cricket next season and see if Hearts can finish better than bottom at that.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Waxy]

Looks like the Pars will be another team not benefiting from the mythical maroon pound!

Only a select few can now benefit from the glories of the maroon pound of the Edinburgh Rangers.
Coincidentally it’s all the teams who would have benefit from league reconstruction.
Everyone else is vermin.

[Future17]

Please don't guys, It'll only end up with Mrs doctor Budge's task force recommending everyone plays cricket next season and see if Hearts can finish better than bottom at that.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

They'd win that league. Masters of the bail out.

[The 90+2]

Only a select few can now benefit from the glories of the maroon pound of the Edinburgh Rangers.
Coincidentally it’s all the teams who would have benefit from league reconstruction.
Everyone else is vermin.

Sound logic 😁

[Juniper Greens]

Dundee United deserve to be in the league more than Hearts do next season, that's what's happening, that's sporting integrity. The 12 top teams in the country will be in the top league, what more can anyone want?!

[steviehibsleith]

Been reported in English press the FA have said season must end with relagation and promotion. If can’t restart Liverpool champions 3 relagated
Express.co.uk

[GreenCastle]

So do we think tomorrow is the day it’s confirmed they are officially relegated ?

[Lunatic]

I've maybe misunderstood your point, but mine was that you can't know the outcome of a sporting contest with 20% of it left to go, irrespective of what has occurred in the first 80%.

There's loads of examples (including in the context of football relegation) where applying that method would have produced a different outcome to what actually transpired.

While there are indeed plenty of examples of teams with the worst record 80% of the way through going on to escape relegation, there are, of course, FAR MORE examples of them getting relegated.
We're in a very unique and unfortunate situation. Whilst it's not totally fair to relegate Hearts, it would be more unfair not to promote Dundee Utd. It would also be more unfair to let them away with being the worst team, with most of the games played already.

As the alternatives would be less fair. Relegating Hearts is in fact the fair thing to do.

There are only 2 options here. Reward supporting success so far this season, or reward sporting failure.

Seems like an easy choice to me.....

[lapsedhibee]

Please don't guys, It'll only end up with Mrs doctor Budge's task force recommending everyone plays cricket next season and see if Hearts can finish better than bottom at that.


Bit of linseed oil rubbed into the old bat and they'd be good to go.

[Irish_Steve]

Bit of linseed oil rubbed into the old bat and they'd be good to go.

I think you`re gonna have to use something way better than linseed oil on the old bat before you are good to go

[Waxy]

So do we think tomorrow is the day it’s confirmed they are officially relegated ?

I think so.
Get ready for tantrum central.

[high bee]

I've maybe misunderstood your point, but mine was that you can't know the outcome of a sporting contest with 20% of it left to go, irrespective of what has occurred in the first 80%.

There's loads of examples (including in the context of football relegation) where applying that method would have produced a different outcome to what actually transpired.

In these circumstances it’s very easy to find a reason why it’s unfair and cling into it if you’re one of the affected parties because their judgement is clouded by emotion. If I was a Hearts, Partick, Falkirk etc fan then this would be a painful one to take but ultimately I would know drop down
that it’s the least worst case, to quote LD.

I actually think she summed it up perfectly with that statement and if the affected clubs have a better suggestion then I’m still waiting to hear it. Clyde are 7th in the second lowest tier and stood to be in the bottom tier of Hearts had their way then they would be suffering, so to try and play the victim who is looking out for everyone is at best ignorant.

If I had the choice I would’ve wanted the whole campaign played cause I am certain they were going down anyway, even after splashing out they couldn’t match St Mirren and Hamilton etc

[PatHead]

I think so.
Get ready for tantrum central.

What time will it be statement o'clock? Need to have champagne chilled.

Wonder how many words will be in Queen Anne's statement.

[Waxy]

What time will it be statement o'clock? Need to have champagne chilled.

Wonder how many words will be in Queen Anne's statement.

My guess is we’ll get the first rumours Rangers vote has failed around 2.30-3pm. The clubs have already said they want the season ended so after a break they’ll quickly smash the hammer on the season.We’ll maybe get the rumours around 4.30-5. Look out your window around then, you’ll see 400,000 toys flying towards the moon.

[jacomo]

I've maybe misunderstood your point, but mine was that you can't know the outcome of a sporting contest with 20% of it left to go, irrespective of what has occurred in the first 80%.

There's loads of examples (including in the context of football relegation) where applying that method would have produced a different outcome to what actually transpired.


This is a fair point.

Obviously, not completing the season is a very sub-optimal outcome. Hearts did deserve the chance to get themselves out of trouble if at all possible.

However, as has been clear from mid March, we are in the art of the possible here, and the situation is as follows:

1. Currently, no football can be played and no one knows when it will be allowed to resume.
2. Declaring the season ‘null and void’ creates huge, possibly unending liabilities for clubs.
3. No credible and detailed proposal for league reconstruction has been put forward.

In this very difficult situation, the SPFL has taken the only course of action that makes sense, in my view.

Budge claims reconstruction would create ‘no losers’ but she never put a plan on the table, so how can we be sure? And how could other clubs vote for it?

[PatHead]

My guess is we’ll get the first rumours Rangers vote has failed around 2.30-3pm. The clubs have already said they want the season ended so after a break they’ll quickly smash the hammer on the season.We’ll maybe get the rumours around 4.30-5. Look out your window around then, you’ll see 400,000 toys flying towards the moon.
Party, party

[Future17]

While there are indeed plenty of examples of teams with the worst record 80% of the way through going on to escape relegation, there are, of course, FAR MORE examples of them getting relegated.
We're in a very unique and unfortunate situation. Whilst it's not totally fair to relegate Hearts, it would be more unfair not to promote Dundee Utd. It would also be more unfair to let them away with being the worst team, with most of the games played already.

As the alternatives would be less fair. Relegating Hearts is in fact the fair thing to do.

There are only 2 options here. Reward supporting success so far this season, or reward sporting failure.

Seems like an easy choice to me.....

I don't disagree with most of that, however there clearly were other options than the two you've referred to. If the decision was being made purely on "sporting" grounds, other options probably should have been pursued.

But I agree that the best of the all the imperfect options has been chosen, taking into account all the circumstances.

[jacomo]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

[Future17]

In these circumstances it’s very easy to find a reason why it’s unfair and cling into it if you’re one of the affected parties because their judgement is clouded by emotion. If I was a Hearts, Partick, Falkirk etc fan then this would be a painful one to take but ultimately I would know drop down
that it’s the least worst case, to quote LD.

I actually think she summed it up perfectly with that statement and if the affected clubs have a better suggestion then I’m still waiting to hear it. Clyde are 7th in the second lowest tier and stood to be in the bottom tier of Hearts had their way then they would be suffering, so to try and play the victim who is looking out for everyone is at best ignorant.

If I had the choice I would’ve wanted the whole campaign played cause I am certain they were going down anyway, even after splashing out they couldn’t match St Mirren and Hamilton etc

I'm just trying to think how I'd feel if we were in their league position. I'd feel a deep sense of injustice about being relegated with 8 games to play...whether I'd be able to accept it as the "least worst option"...I doubt.

[Peevemor]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

Under siege? If Hearts and this season's other failures just shut the f*** up and accept the (vast) majority decision, there'd be no argument whatsoever.

Morons!

[Future17]

This is a fair point.

Obviously, not completing the season is a very sub-optimal outcome. Hearts did deserve the chance to get themselves out of trouble if at all possible.

However, as has been clear from mid March, we are in the art of the possible here, and the situation is as follows:

1. Currently, no football can be played and no one knows when it will be allowed to resume.
2. Declaring the season ‘null and void’ creates huge, possibly unending liabilities for clubs.
3. No credible and detailed proposal for league reconstruction has been put forward.

In this very difficult situation, the SPFL has taken the only course of action that makes sense, in my view.

Budge claims reconstruction would create ‘no losers’ but she never put a plan on the table, so how can we be sure? And how could other clubs vote for it?

Agree. :aok:

[jacomo]

I love how FOH brag in their email that one of their principles is about ‘supporting others in our sport’, and then sign off with a dark prediction that some clubs may not survive this crisis.

Do they ever reflect on how this sounds?

It’s just like Budge claiming that her principles and morals led her to trying to find a better way forward for all clubs, while insisting that reconstruction be only a temporary fix.

It’s beyond parody.

[Waxy]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”
It is the hearts fans fault though. They wanted Levein sacked and thats why they went down.

[04Sauzee]

Banderson on twitter saying he's not a Jambo? I genuinely thought he was.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Banderson on twitter saying he's not a Jambo? I genuinely thought he was.

He's right...he's a fud not a dud

[jacomo]

I don't disagree with most of that, however there clearly were other options than the two you've referred to. If the decision was being made purely on "sporting" grounds, other options probably should have been pursued.

But I agree that the best of the all the imperfect options has been chosen, taking into account all the circumstances.


Wait, but what other options?

80% of clubs voted to let SPFL end the season... it only appeared a close run thing because of a very convoluted voting process.

If there is a better way forward, why isn’t it being proposed and why doesn’t it have more support?

Hearts want a temporary reconstruction to save them from relegation, but have put no detailed proposal forward.

The Rangers are furious and pointing the finger at the SPFL, but have proposed nothing except demanding all games must be played in full stadiums... ie the very thing that is not allowed.

ICT are angry but haven’t proposed an alternative. Partick ditto.

It’s very easy to rant and rave, but much harder to lead and make good decisions.

All these tantrums are doing me in.

[roo62]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

15,000 chips made at Hearts... One for each shoulder of FOH members 😂

[Spike Mandela]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

Victim mentality personified. Laughable avoidance of any recognition, whatsoever, of their total incompetence and mismanagement in recent years.

[bingo70]

I'm just trying to think how I'd feel if we were in their league position. I'd feel a deep sense of injustice about being relegated with 8 games to play...whether I'd be able to accept it as the "least worst option"...I doubt.

That’s what Jambos keep saying to me.

I don’t think there’s any other option though and I’m pretty sure that even if Hibs were in their shoes that I’d appreciate there’s nothing else that can be done....

When this all kicked off I actually agreed League Reconstruction on the face of it was the fairest way to resolve it, no relegation and the teams that should go up do. You only have to dig a tiny bit deeper to realise that’s just not practical to do it, without that option relegating the worst team up to that point is the only option.

I would think that whether it was Hibs, Hearts, Hamilton or Rangers at the bottom.

I’m also not against the teams that have been effected by the league season finishing early getting a ‘solidarity payment’, seems fair enough to me.

[Waxy]

All their heads are popping off tonight. They know tomorrow could be d day. They’ll all be making up their own personal statements and firing them anywhere on net they can.

[Box 17]

I'm just trying to think how I'd feel if we were in their league position. I'd feel a deep sense of injustice about being relegated with 8 games to play...whether I'd be able to accept it as the "least worst option"...I doubt.

Of course not finishing a competition is not ideal but there are sporting precedents for this. For example, many a big golf tournament has been won by the leader after 54 holes when the last round couldn't be played, usually because of the weather. And one-day cricket matches are regularly abandoned half way through and decided on a calculation under the Duckworth Lewis method.

[Waxy]

That’s what Jambos keep saying to me.

I don’t think there’s any other option though and I’m pretty sure that even if Hibs were in their shoes that I’d appreciate there’s nothing else that can be done....

When this all kicked off I actually agreed League Reconstruction on the face of it was the fairest way to resolve it, no relegation and the teams that should go up do. You only have to dig a tiny bit deeper to realise that’s just not practical to do it, without that option relegating the worst team up to that point is the only option.

I would think that whether it was Hibs, Hearts, Hamilton or Rangers at the bottom.

I’m also not against the teams that have been effected by the league season finishing early getting a ‘solidarity payment’, seems fair enough to me.

Reconstruction is not fair though. The clubs have to carry the cost of the would be relegated teams.

[brog]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

I wonder why F of H didn't propose reconstruction last year, or the year before etc etc etc? Meanwhile they accuse everyone else of acting in self interest. Its beyond parody!

[high bee]

I'm just trying to think how I'd feel if we were in their league position. I'd feel a deep sense of injustice about being relegated with 8 games to play...whether I'd be able to accept it as the "least worst option"...I doubt.

Like I say, deep down I would know it’s the least worst, however I would still be hurting massively, I’m not saying I would be blasé about it and I feel for the level headed Jambos. IMO the only ones who can display objective thinking at the moment are clubs like ours because we don’t stand to lose a great deal compared to being relegated without the chance to escape, whereas they are clinging to this injustice but cannot offer an alternative that doesn’t affect other teams negatively. The idea of there being no losers is wishful thinking.

I guess we will never know but I think we would, as a club, communicate our disdain but show more humility, professionalism and consideration for fairness to all (including the lower league teams). I think there was a actually quite a bit of support for restructuring in some capacity but the was they went about it quickly eroded any compassion.

[Captain Trips]

If money was not an issue and a few other things i would have waited to finish this season and when we are all starting on the same points next season make that the season we make different shorter or whatever. I understand though way to many things going on but if it could have been done fanny about with the season when everyone is on equal footing. However hearts going down here is rather amusing.

[Waxy]

Hes the guy who posted this before they played St Mirren.

Zero shame. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200413/17ea9fcf4a81639b1d44b40b80224681.jpg

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
If St Mirren were bottom.

[Wakeyhibee]

Wait, but what other options?

80% of clubs voted to let SPFL end the season... it only appeared a close run thing because of a very convoluted voting process.

If there is a better way forward, why isn’t it being proposed and why doesn’t it have more support?

Hearts want a temporary reconstruction to save them from relegation, but have put no detailed proposal forward.

The Rangers are furious and pointing the finger at the SPFL, but have proposed nothing except demanding all games must be played in full stadiums... ie the very thing that is not allowed.

ICT are angry but haven’t proposed an alternative. Partick ditto.

It’s very easy to rant and rave, but much harder to lead and make good decisions.

All these tantrums are doing me in.

What I still don't understand is the rush to vote on this in the first place. I believe it was for cash payments to clubs to help them survive.

If that was the case, why wasnt an interim payment made to clubs based on their possible final positions?

Worst case scenario is all clubs get last place money (or the difference as I belive its staged). And seeing as the final payment wasn't due til after early May, when the leagues were due to finish, why not wait until end of April to vote instead of 1/2 weeks into the lockdown, when more would be known.

[Onion]

All their heads are popping off tonight. They know tomorrow could be d day. They’ll all be making up their own personal statements and firing them anywhere on net they can.

Cannot wait to see those losing, money-laundering, gullible, cheating, poppy-thieving, pension-plundering, tax-evading, moaning, hun-loving, greetin-faced chumps RELEGATED. Their incessent squeeeeealing is getting on my nerves.

But then, maybe hold off until the 16th just to make an extra special red letter day :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

If St Mirren were bottom.FOH would be right out there with a very similar statement hoping to save all of Scottish football by reconstructing the league for just the one season.

Surely the donators here should be all over their chairman and representatives to get a proper explanation about how it's all gone so wrong given the very substantial contributions they've made, and how it's been managed when the cash reaches the club.

There's a deflection going on here that's very similar to how Hearts themselves are trying to sidestep the reason they are the right club to relegate.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[bingo70]

Reconstruction is not fair though. The clubs have to carry the cost of the would be relegated teams.

I know.

That’s what I mean, on the face of it is an alternative solution, you don’t need to look into it far too realise why it would never work.

That’s your only 2 options and as reconstruction was never going to work, that only leaves relegation.

[high bee]

What I still don't understand is the rush to vote on this in the first place. I believe it was for cash payments to clubs to help them survive.

If that was the case, why wasnt an interim payment made to clubs based on their possible final positions?

Worst case scenario is all clubs get last place money (or the difference as I belive its staged). And seeing as the final payment wasn't due til after early May, when the leagues were due to finish, why not wait until end of April to vote instead of 1/2 weeks into the lockdown, when more would be known.

I’m sure 9 clubs already had been paid out to last place and Celtic, Rangers and Motherwell were paid out to 6th place based on that being the worst achievable position.

The SPFL have said they couldn’t pay the last remaining amounts based on actual position unless it was finalised because then it would have to be loan payments and they couldn’t carry out credit checks etc on 42 clubs. Some clubs came out and said the main issue wasn’t actually the final payment as it was quite low but it was knowing who would be in the league with them next year so they could budget accordingly.

[Peevemor]

What I still don't understand is the rush to vote on this in the first place. I believe it was for cash payments to clubs to help them survive.

If that was the case, why wasnt an interim payment made to clubs based on their possible final positions?

Worst case scenario is all clubs get last place money (or the difference as I belive its staged). And seeing as the final payment wasn't due til after early May, when the leagues were due to finish, why not wait until end of April to vote instead of 1/2 weeks into the lockdown, when more would be known.


All clubs were paid the amount corresponding to their worst possible final league position.

The money was required because of the lack of revenue due to there being no matches.

[Waxy]

I know.

That’s what I mean, on the face of it is an alternative solution, you don’t need to look into it far too realise why it would never work.

That’s your only 2 options and as reconstruction was never going to work, that only leaves relegation.
Which although a bit unlucky, is still fair.

[007]

Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:


Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'

Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive

5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.

Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.

Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.

The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.

They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.

Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.

“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.

“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.

“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.

“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.

“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.

“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.

“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).

“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.

“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”

That's just more squealing but this time it's by what is now sounding like Hearts version of Club 1872.

They'll survive fine yet Budge wants the SPFL to rip up the Sky contract (probably the one thing mostly likely to keep as many clubs as possible afloat) and renegotiate it at what would blatantly be many millions less than it currently is, just to save them.

Shameful gloating at the end saying some clubs won't survive. It's the sort of thing their fans have been spouting but for FoH to say it is embarrassing.

[hibeerealist]

I love how FOH brag in their email that one of their principles is about ‘supporting others in our sport’, and then sign off with a dark prediction that some clubs may not survive this crisis.

Do they ever reflect on how this sounds?

It’s just like Budge claiming that her principles and morals led her to trying to find a better way forward for all clubs, while insisting that reconstruction be only a temporary fix.

It’s beyond parody.

Absolute chancers and roasters, they only care about them no other club evidenced by their years of cheating - tell that to Dundee after you duped the authorities by stating “we are self sufficient” whilst ******g bust!!!

Never seen such blatant self interest from any club out with the OF, you could not mark their necks with a blow torch.

[hibeerealist]

I’m sure 9 clubs already had been paid out to last place and Celtic, Rangers and Motherwell were paid out to 6th place based on that being the worst achievable position.

The SPFL have said they couldn’t pay the last remaining amounts based on actual position unless it was finalised because then it would have to be loan payments and they couldn’t carry out credit checks etc on 42 clubs. Some clubs came out and said the main issue wasn’t actually the final payment as it was quite low but it was knowing who would be in the league with them next year so they could budget accordingly.


I posted something similar a week or so ago, credit check on sevco or Hertz gonna give SPFL clear comfort to lend/advance?????

[PatHead]

Would love the league to be called on the 19th. The anniversary of them killing us as a club.

Karma.

[jacomo]

What I still don't understand is the rush to vote on this in the first place. I believe it was for cash payments to clubs to help them survive.

If that was the case, why wasnt an interim payment made to clubs based on their possible final positions?

Worst case scenario is all clubs get last place money (or the difference as I belive its staged). And seeing as the final payment wasn't due til after early May, when the leagues were due to finish, why not wait until end of April to vote instead of 1/2 weeks into the lockdown, when more would be known.


You make a good point and maybe the SPFL board wanted to get a clear decision on record as they could all this rancour coming. The vote looked decisive but the fall out has been awful.

But... that decision looks more and more correct with each passing day. It’s only the wealthiest leagues in Europe who still seem to think they can complete this league season.

[007]

Would love the league to be called on the 19th. The anniversary of them killing us as a club.

Karma.

Calling it on the 21st wouldn't be too bad either.

[Future17]

Wait, but what other options?

80% of clubs voted to let SPFL end the season... it only appeared a close run thing because of a very convoluted voting process.

If there is a better way forward, why isn’t it being proposed and why doesn’t it have more support?

Hearts want a temporary reconstruction to save them from relegation, but have put no detailed proposal forward.

The Rangers are furious and pointing the finger at the SPFL, but have proposed nothing except demanding all games must be played in full stadiums... ie the very thing that is not allowed.

ICT are angry but haven’t proposed an alternative. Partick ditto.

It’s very easy to rant and rave, but much harder to lead and make good decisions.

All these tantrums are doing me in.

If the decision was being made purely on sporting grounds, then reconstruction (temporary or permanent) would have been an option...and arguably the better one. That option hasn't been pursued for reasons other than sporting reasons.

[Barney McGrew]

Would love the league to be called on the 19th. The anniversary of them killing us as a club.

Karma.

Having them relegated officially and The Rangers told that their enquiry plan has been thrown out on the same day (today) would be a hilarious double whammy.

We could call it the Glorious Twelfth