Scottish Independence

[lapsedhibee]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/f09d47eeca27cbd9cdffba8470e933b6.jpg
Presumably we should have just followed England?


"They refused to use the government's messaging, confusing the public." :faf:

In The Spectator's parallel world, Matt Lucas hasn't been born yet.

[Jack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/f09d47eeca27cbd9cdffba8470e933b6.jpg
Presumably we should have just followed England?


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It's almost as if the Scottish Government was advertising in England.

God forbid either goverment step into the wrong devolved/reserved areas.

[Tommy75]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/f09d47eeca27cbd9cdffba8470e933b6.jpg
Presumably we should have just followed England?


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I'm not sure that any of the devolved nations should have just followed England. I would like to have seen something along the lines of a 'pandemic coalition' between devolved governments and the UK government that put out 1 set of rules/regulations for the UK as a whole.

[Glory Lurker]

I'm not sure that any of the devolved nations should have just followed England. I would like to have seen something along the lines of a 'pandemic coalition' between devolved governments and the UK government that put out 1 set of rules/regulations for the UK as a whole.

No chance. There is no reason at all for England to do anything that the anybody else suggests. There's 55 million of them. Why should they do anything other than suits them? I wouldn’t blame them. It does show up how it's a union of unequals, though.

[Ozyhibby]

Alex Cole Hamilton laying the groundwork for a unionist merger. How long before Labour join? Or will they carry on with the current non aggression pact?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210814/c966cf0a9321cd10b0e3a590f04e05ea.png


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[ronaldo7]

Alex Cole Hamilton laying the groundwork for a unionist merger. How long before Labour join? Or will they carry on with the current non aggression pact?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210814/c966cf0a9321cd10b0e3a590f04e05ea.png


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https://twitter.com/Ross_Greer/status/1426548435189129216?s=09

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58256028.amp

GERS figures are out and unionists can rejoice in the fact we seem to have got poorer once again.


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[Kato]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58256028.amp

GERS figures are out and unionists can rejoice in the fact we seem to have got poorer once again.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's a sure fire sign, to Unionists, that we are too poor and too stupid to take care of things for ourselves.

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[Hibrandenburg]

It's a sure fire sign, to Unionists, that we are too poor and too stupid to take care of things for ourselves.

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If only we were genetically wired to be able to lead ourselves.

[Jack]

The Scottish Government, as we all know, has to run within budget. If GERS shows Scotland is running over budget it must be someone else running up the debt. Whoever it is they don't seem to be very competent!

[Ozyhibby]

The Scottish Government, as we all know, has to run within budget. If GERS shows Scotland is running over budget it must be someone else running up the debt. Whoever it is they don't seem to be very competent!

Or very competent in their plan to make us the poorest country in this part of Europe and then use that to tell us we need them?


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[CloudSquall]

If unionists were able to admit that they rejoice in living off the dole I could have a shred of respect for their position.

Or, even better, if they were willing to show strategies out of a (supposed) 22% deficit instead of chanting "Fiscal transfers! Fiscal transfers! Fiscal transfers!" within their beloved UK I'd be more than willing to hear them.

[Ozyhibby]

If unionists were able to admit that they rejoice in living off the dole I could have a shred of respect for their position.

Or, even better, if they were willing to show strategies out of a (supposed) 22% deficit instead of chanting "Fiscal transfers! Fiscal transfers! Fiscal transfers!" within their beloved UK I'd be more than willing to hear them.

No chance now. Scotland will always be kept this way so that they can say we would not manage on our own.
They are in charge of our economy and plan to keep it as small as possible.


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[Glory Lurker]

No chance now. Scotland will always be kept this way so that they can say we would not manage on our own.
They are in charge of our economy and plan to keep it as small as possible.


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Spot on.

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/KK9f0rB2Bdk


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[The Pointer]

No chance now. Scotland will always be kept this way so that they can say we would not manage on our own.
They are in charge of our economy and plan to keep it as small as possible.


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What does Kate Forbes do and where did the Covid money go?

[Ozyhibby]

What does Kate Forbes do and where did the Covid money go?

She manages Scotland’s spending. And does a fine job, balancing the books. She is not the chancellor though. She has no control over taxation, borrowing, monetary policy etc that people in her position in normal countries have.
Not sure what you mean by where did the Covid money go?


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[ronaldo7]

New Unite general secretary, Sharon Graham, is open to Scotland having another independence referendum.

The times are changing, as she puts pressure on Sir keir, and Anas Sarwar

[cabbageandribs1875]

Mauritius wrestling control of chagos islands from the not-so great britain, go them :agree:


British stamps banned from Chagos Islands in Indian Ocean - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-58321580)

All indications so far show that on the Chagos issue Britain has almost no allies left, our correspondent says

go Tories :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.fiscalcommission.scot/publications/scotlands-economic-and-fiscal-forecasts-august-2021/

All forecasts revised favourably 👍

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/jack-indyref2-could-take-place-if-support-remains-above-60?top

That’s very honourable of him. 🙄

Define consistently and for a reasonable length of time????


And who decides?

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/jack-indyref2-could-take-place-if-support-remains-above-60?top

That’s very honourable of him. [emoji849]

Define consistently and for a reasonable length of time????


And who decides?

Who we elect doesn’t matter to unionists.


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[McSwanky]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/jack-indyref2-could-take-place-if-support-remains-above-60?top

"Alister Jack’s statement is the first time a minister has defined conditions for allowing another vote on Scottish independence to take place."


It really isn't.

[Crunchie]

Who we elect doesn’t matter to unionists.


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You can rattle out that nonsense till the cows come home, it doesn't make it true and your fantasy that anyone who doesn't vote for Independence is a unionist is more rubbish as you must know but you spout it repeatedly anyway.

[Peevemor]

You can rattle out that nonsense till the cows come home... .

[emoji848]

[ACLeith]

"Alister Jack’s statement is the first time a minister has defined conditions for allowing another vote on Scottish independence to take place."


It really isn't.

Seems fair to me. Provided he accepts that they can only form a government if they get more than 60% of the vote

[greenlex]

You can rattle out that nonsense till the cows come home, it doesn't make it true and your fantasy that anyone who doesn't vote for Independence is a unionist is more rubbish as you must know but you spout it repeatedly anyway.

If you don’t want independence then by definition you are a unionist. Maybe you want to be the 51st state of the USA of course ?

[CloudSquall]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/jack-indyref2-could-take-place-if-support-remains-above-60?top

That’s very honourable of him. 🙄

Define consistently and for a reasonable length of time????


And who decides?


I had a quick look on Wiki and since 2014 there has never been one poll with No anywhere near 60% support.


Why is 60% only a requirement for one side of the debate?

[ronaldo7]

I had a quick look on Wiki and since 2014 there has never been one poll with No anywhere near 60% support.


Why is 60% only a requirement for one side of the debate?

It's what they do. Tell us that we can't have this or that unless the rules they've made up are adhered to. It's like asking for a positive case for the union, all you get is serving flags and telling people how global we are.

Let's hope the electorate have been watching when we eventually get to vote again.

[CloudSquall]

You can rattle out that nonsense till the cows come home, it doesn't make it true and your fantasy that anyone who doesn't vote for Independence is a unionist is more rubbish as you must know but you spout it repeatedly anyway.

Surely by voting against independence the voter in question supports a union with England and therefore is a unionist?

[JeMeSouviens]

Surely by voting against independence the voter in question supports a union with England and therefore is a unionist?

:agree:

It's not even like "unionist" is used as a pejorative. They call themselves that usually. :confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

Surely by voting against independence the voter in question supports a union with England and therefore is a unionist?

I wonder if the voter in question would be happy being a member of a Union? :wink:

[Glory Lurker]

Conservative and Unionist Party.

They started it! :-)

[Crunchie]

If you don’t want independence then by definition you are a unionist. Maybe you want to be the 51st state of the USA of course ?
Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

[Callum_62]

What terms are on offer?

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[Moulin Yarns]

Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

As the 28th member of the EU? 😉

[McD]

I had a quick look on Wiki and since 2014 there has never been one poll with No anywhere near 60% support.


Why is 60% only a requirement for one side of the debate?


what happens if neither side get 60%?

I'm not being flippant, genuinely curious

[Ozyhibby]

what happens if neither side get 60%?

I'm not being flippant, genuinely curious

The Tories remain in charge of Scotland forever.


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[McD]

The Tories remain in charge of Scotland forever.


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I genuinely wasn’t being smartarsed, I was curious as to where things go if, in this 60% scenario, what happens if neither side gets a consistent 60%

[Ozyhibby]

I genuinely wasn’t being smartarsed, I was curious as to where things go if, in this 60% scenario, what happens if neither side gets a consistent 60%

I wasn’t either. The status quo prevails under this scenario which suits the unionists down to a T.


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[The Modfather]

Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

As opposed to Brexit and being up chit creek without a paddle in the here and now?

[JimBHibees]

What terms are on offer?

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We get to make our own decisions, what a disaster

[Moulin Yarns]

I genuinely wasn’t being smartarsed, I was curious as to where things go if, in this 60% scenario, what happens if neither side gets a consistent 60%

There is no need for the NO side to consistently be over 60%. This is the NO side trying to impose the 60% condition on the YES side, a bit like they did in 1979 which effectively delayed devolution for 20 years.

[McD]

I wasn’t either. The status quo prevails under this scenario which suits the unionists down to a T.


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fair enough bud, wasn’t sure if you thought I was being a d*** :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

I would vote YES if and when the terms were right,


Taking this in isolation, assuming that the time is right for a second referendum 18 months from now, what sort of terms are you looking for that you think are right and make you feel better able to vote yes?

I'm genuinely interested. If nothing else to help understand what is needed to persuade you and other like minded people.

No worries if you don't want to answer, but if you don't could you acknowledge the question.

[Crunchie]

Taking this in isolation, assuming that the time is right for a second referendum 18 months from now, what sort of terms are you looking for that you think are right and make you feel better able to vote yes?

I'm genuinely interested. If nothing else to help understand what is needed to persuade you and other like minded people.

No worries if you don't want to answer, but if you don't could you acknowledge the question.

I've explained my position over and over and all you get are snidey remarks from the cut and pastey man and his chums,so I'll leave it at that.

What I will say is that the UK would have to be in a strong position financially for me to consider it, and
COVID has scuppered any chance of that for a hell of a lot longer than 18mths. The world economy won't recover anytime soon never mind the UK.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've explained my position over and over and all you get are snidey remarks from the cut and pastey man and his chums,so I'll leave it at that.

What I will say is that the UK would have to be in a strong position financially for me to consider it, and
COVID has scuppered any chance of that for a hell of a lot longer than 18mths. The world economy won't recover anytime soon never mind the UK.

Could you at least give me the post number where I can read your ideal yes position to save me searching for it?

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw something today that suggested that there are more tory yes supporters than Scottish tory members. 😂😂😂

[greenlex]

Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

So it’s not rubbish., if you voted yes seven years ago (yes seven) and wouldnt vote yes now then you are now for the status quo and a unionist. It’s not hard. Up the creek you say. I reckon it’s a matter of how. far. We wouldn’t be as far as we are now with Brexit and we certainly wouldn’t be motoring further up it telling everyone that everything is or will be nice and rosey.

[Kato]

So it’s not rubbish., if you voted yes seven years ago (yes seven) and wouldnt vote yes now then you are now for the status quo and a unionist. It’s not hard.Watch out mate, the Label Police will be along soon.

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[WeeRussell]

I've explained my position over and over and all you get are snidey remarks from the cut and pastey man and his chums,so I'll leave it at that.

What I will say is that the UK would have to be in a strong position financially for me to consider it, and
COVID has scuppered any chance of that for a hell of a lot longer than 18mths. The world economy won't recover anytime soon never mind the UK.

Shock :greengrin

[WeeRussell]

Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

Therefore this number of more sensible (in your opinion) people would now be unionists :dunno:

Hang on a second.. in the final part of your statement, are you saying that you voted YES in the last referendum?!

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/1433151630157942785?s=21


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[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/1433151630157942785?s=21


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I can't see London running dirty tricks to try to avoid this scenario arising, oh no.

[Moulin Yarns]

Happy Independence Day Trinidad & Tobago 🇹🇹 on this day in 1962, 59 years ago, they gained independence from the British empire and to date haven’t asked to rejoin.

[JimBHibees]

Happy Independence Day Trinidad & Tobago 🇹🇹 on this day in 1962, 59 years ago, they gained independence from the British empire and to date haven’t asked to rejoin.

How much oil do they have though? Bound to be loads :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

How much oil do they have though? Bound to be loads :greengrin

Actually....

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/trinidad-and-tobago-oil/#:~:text=Trinidad%20and%20Tobago%20Oil,-Summary%20Table&text=Trinidad%20and%20Tobago%20holds%20728%2C300%2 C000,35.0%20times%20its%20annual%20consumption.

About one tenth of uk production.

[Radium]

… can we change the thread title, apparently it is partition not independence

https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1433430864562507783?s=21


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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241273470_4186538994777930_5851346320805287549_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=8DuQdaj6B30AX_KMa_M&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=ec0ed0d0be0d586ad4dff779c6fa0f10&oe=615A83E8


nice pic

[Ozyhibby]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnson-social-care-national-insurance-tax-scotland-unfair-ian-blackford-snp-1186032

Scots paying for social care twice.


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[Skol]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnson-social-care-national-insurance-tax-scotland-unfair-ian-blackford-snp-1186032

Scots paying for social care twice.


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My adblocker doesnt let me read that article so cant see the details

Is it not within the gift of Scottish Government to redirect one of these payments to another area that needs attention?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210907/f8f468731a8d9e156bf8f9cd5a8dde6b.png


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[Ozyhibby]

My adblocker doesnt let me read that article so cant see the details

Is it not within the gift of Scottish Government to redirect one of these payments to another area that needs attention?

The government of Scotland does not want to introduce a regressive tax though.


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[JimBHibees]

Total rubbish, there are a number of people who voted YES last time around but would have more sense to vote for it now. I would vote YES if and when the terms were right, I and many like me are of the opinion the time is not right, and furthermore as it turns out had we won the last referendum we would have been up chit creek without a paddle.

So you voted yes in 2014 and the subsequent political landscape since then including brexit and an extreme Tory government has convinced you to now vote no. Personally find that very hard to believe.

[Moulin Yarns]

So you voted yes in 2014 and the subsequent political landscape since then including brexit and an extreme Tory government has convinced you to now vote no. Personally find that very hard to believe.

If you read the post again then you will notice that he wished that we had won the referendum last time. His hard line unionist facade is slipping 😉

[Skol]

The government of Scotland does not want to introduce a regressive tax though.


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Yeah, so thats the issue, not that we are paying for social care twice ?

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah, so thats the issue, not that we are paying for social care twice ?

In Scotland we chose to raise income tax on higher earners to fund social care a couple of years ago. It’s done. Now though, we are being told we have to pay higher NI to fund England’s social care.


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[Skol]

In Scotland we chose to raise income tax on higher earners to fund social care a couple of years ago. It’s done. Now though, we are being told we have to pay higher NI to fund England’s social care.


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So we agree NI isnt the best way to achieve this, but thats what England are doing and we will get the cash back. We can then either reduce the income tax or choose to use that income tax differently. Scotland are not paying twice, its not a poll tax and we are not paying to solve englands problem

[ronaldo7]

So we agree NI isnt the best way to achieve this, but thats what England are doing and we will get the cash back. We can then either reduce the income tax or choose to use that income tax differently. Scotland are not paying twice, its not a poll tax and we are not paying to solve englands problem

Not sure the Tories will use all the cash for their social care plan. We'll probably see some syphoned off for their 40 new hospitals, and the social care elements will be watered down.

[JeMeSouviens]

So we agree NI isnt the best way to achieve this, but thats what England are doing and we will get the cash back. We can then either reduce the income tax or choose to use that income tax differently. Scotland are not paying twice, its not a poll tax and we are not paying to solve englands problem

Scotland's budget is determined by what England spends, not what the UK taxes.

[Skol]

Not sure the Tories will use all the cash for their social care plan. We'll probably see some syphoned off for their 40 new hospitals, and the social care elements will be watered down.

Should we not be concerned about how the SNP will use the cash when they receive it?

[ronaldo7]

Should we not be concerned about how the SNP will use the cash when they receive it?

Are you so sure we'll actually receive it, and the Parliament won't be side lined by some Unionist levelling up programme.

[Mon Dieu4]

Liked his dig about how Labour did nothing about it, acting like the Tories only took over yesterday

[Santa Cruz]

I'm listening to this in the background. Did Blackford just say "keep your mitts of our NHS"? I'm not sure if I misheard.

See all the jeering and cheering in WM it's ridiculous, they really need to modernise their Parliament in line with the 21st century.

[weecounty hibby]

I'm listening to this in the background. Did Blackford just say "keep your mitts of our NHS"? I'm not sure if I misheard.

See all the jeering and cheering in WM it's ridiculous, they really need to modernise their Parliament in line with the 21st century.

Je did. Johnson has already said that they will decide where any extra funds are spent. Tax us more then try to take away powers all at the same time. And still we will have folk telling us that it's a great idea being told what to do. Erm, I mean being a partner in the union!

[Santa Cruz]

Je did. Johnson has already said that they will decide where any extra funds are spent. Tax us more then try to take away powers all at the same time. And still we will have folk telling us that it's a great idea being told what to do. Erm, I mean being a partner in the union!

Thanks, I thought I had misheard at first. He plagiarised that line from a Labour Conference years ago. It was a very powerful speech about the NHS. Lazy wee toad.

[Smartie]

I'm listening to this in the background. Did Blackford just say "keep your mitts of our NHS"? I'm not sure if I misheard.

See all the jeering and cheering in WM it's ridiculous, they really need to modernise their Parliament in line with the 21st century.

If they did, then it could be (a very small) part of something that might tempt some of the softer supporters of independence away.

But there's no appetite for that down South so it will never happen. They're either happy or they don't care.

I think parliament is ridiculous. It's the 21st century FFS - the people who run our country should be able to debate in a clear fashion without all that braying and other historical drivel.

[Ozyhibby]

Should we not be concerned about how the SNP will use the cash when they receive it?

Looks like the SG will not receive the money. It will be spent by the Tories. I’m sure it still has your full support though?


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[Skol]

Looks like the SG will not receive the money. It will be spent by the Tories. I’m sure it still has your full support though?


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I would not be happy if that is the case. I do not believe that is how it will work though and the Scottish Government will receive their share to spend with the agreed powers they have

[Moulin Yarns]

Looks like the SG will not receive the money. It will be spent by the Tories. I’m sure it still has your full support though?


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Of course it will be spent by the tories, on Scotland's behalf, to further skew the GERS figures. 😉

[Santa Cruz]

I would not be happy if that is the case. I do not believe that is how it will work though and the Scottish Government will receive their share to spend with the agreed powers they have

That's my thinking. It's not like we don't have social care issues too. Lets not forget the Care Home (think it was in the Highlands) that the SG had to purchase and the NHS took over the running of it around the time of the first wave of the Pandemic. There is bound to be others like that in need of Gov support to bring them up to and above an acceptable standard of care.

[ronaldo7]

We're up and running again. Let's do it.

https://www.yes.scot/signup/

[Moulin Yarns]

That's my thinking. It's not like we don't have social care issues too. Lets not forget the Care Home (think it was in the Highlands) that the SG had to purchase and the NHS took over the running of it around the time of the first wave of the Pandemic. There is bound to be others like that in need of Gov support to bring them up to and above an acceptable standard of care.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-54013830

This one.

[Moulin Yarns]

We're up and running again. Let's do it.

https://www.yes.scot/signup/

You going to Stirling on Saturday?

[ronaldo7]

FM prog for Gov.

"We will introduce the Miners’ Pardon Bill to provide a collective pardon for those convicted of certain offences during the 1984/85 miners’ strike.

"I hope this will bring closure to those convicted, their families, and the communities affected.

:aok:

[ronaldo7]

You going to Stirling on Saturday?

:aok:

[Santa Cruz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-54013830

This one.

Yeah. Ta.

[Moulin Yarns]

I would not be happy if that is the case. I do not believe that is how it will work though and the Scottish Government will receive their share to spend with the agreed powers they have

Prime Minister saying he will direct how money raised by his National Insurance hike is spent in Scotland, Wales and Northern.

Utter disrespect and disregard for devolution, and our Scottish Parliament. #PowerGrab #NationalInsurance https://t.co/UBLaNeE4cc

[weecounty hibby]

You going to Stirling on Saturday?
I'll be there on my 🏍 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Moulin Yarns]

:aok:

I'm busy with open studios, good luck all that are going.

[ronaldo7]

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fairer-greener-scotland-programme-government-2021-22/

Too many individual policies to mention. Happy reading. :aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

We're up and running again. Let's do it.

https://www.yes.scot/signup/

Quite exciting 👍 . The focus has to be on the middle undecideds, a huge proportion will be stuck one way or the other unfortunately. Brexit will obviously be the big trump card

[Smartie]

Quite exciting 👍 . The focus has to be on the middle undecideds, a huge proportion will be stuck one way or the other unfortunately. Brexit will obviously be the big trump card

"Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser" and all that.

A decent case could be made that Brexit shows exactly the upheaval and problems you can have when separating from your neighbours - and the UK union has even closer links than between the UK and EU.

I mean - I'm still in favour of independence. I just think we need to go into it with our eyes open and with tough resolve to get through the challenging period immediately post-change.

One of the biggest problems with Brexit is that so many people feel that it was a change they didn't want or vote for, so the consequences are harder to swallow.

[Jack]

"Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser" and all that.

A decent case could be made that Brexit shows exactly the upheaval and problems you can have when separating from your neighbours - and the UK union has even closer links than between the UK and EU.

I mean - I'm still in favour of independence. I just think we need to go into it with our eyes open and with tough resolve to get through the challenging period immediately post-change.

One of the biggest problems with Brexit is that so many people feel that it was a change they didn't want or vote for, so the consequences are harder to swallow.

I really can't see the torys/unionists telling Scotland it should stay part of the union using a failed Brexit as an example.

[lapsedhibee]

I really can't see the torys/unionists telling Scotland it should stay part of the union using a failed Brexit as an example.
Definitely will, though without acknowledging any failure. At some point "disruption" will become the most overused word in the history of TV, radio and the written press.

[Skol]

Quite exciting 👍 . The focus has to be on the middle undecideds, a huge proportion will be stuck one way or the other unfortunately. Brexit will obviously be the big trump card

Forgive me if I am not quite as excited as you all. However I do agree that the work on the case for Independence needs to be revisited as this to me is the key to all of this and do we break the stalemate.

[Jack]

That's my thinking. It's not like we don't have social care issues too. Lets not forget the Care Home (think it was in the Highlands) that the SG had to purchase and the NHS took over the running of it around the time of the first wave of the Pandemic. There is bound to be others like that in need of Gov support to bring them up to and above an acceptable standard of care.

I would hope not!

The Care Commission regularly visit care homes to ensure they meet a minimum standard. If private companies can't run these places to at least that standard they should be confiscated and taken into public ownership/care never mind bought over!

[degenerated]

Should we not be concerned about how the SNP will use the cash when they receive it?Firstly we should be concerned as to how much of our own cash the generously bestow upon us

[Santa Cruz]

I would hope not!

The Care Commission regularly visit care homes to ensure they meet a minimum standard. If private companies can't run these places to at least that standard they should be confiscated and taken into public ownership/care never mind bought over!

I don't know if you can read this, but yes, sadly there is more. The CC have upped their spot checks.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/watchdog-blasts-midlothian-care-home-over-neglect-and-treating-residents-with-lack-dignity-3336221

[degenerated]

I'll be there on my [emoji965] [emoji1022]󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿I would have been but am in the wilds of Argyll and won't be back till Saturday evening, which is a bit of a scunner.
Not had much of a chance to use my new bike as much as I would have liked.

[660]

As an independence supporter I have almost zero confidence we will win

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/petermacmahon/status/1435305709655269376?s=21


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[Ozyhibby]

I would not be happy if that is the case. I do not believe that is how it will work though and the Scottish Government will receive their share to spend with the agreed powers they have

Now confirmed that the SG will not receive the money and it will be spent by the Tories. Devolution is being rolled back.


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[Santa Cruz]

Now confirmed that the SG will not receive the money and it will be spent by the Tories. Devolution is being rolled back.


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Has it not been ringfenced for health and social care spending? I don't have a problem with that, that's the area I want my additional N.I. contributions to be spent.

[greenlex]

Has it not been ringfenced for health and social care spending? I don't have a problem with that, that's the area I want my additional N.I. contributions to be spent.

If health and social care is devolved and this NI hike is ring fenced how can you be happy not getting any of it for social care?

[Ozyhibby]

Has it not been ringfenced for health and social care spending? I don't have a problem with that, that's the area I want my additional N.I. contributions to be spent.

We elect the SG to allocate resources in health and social care. That’s what we voted for in a referendum back in 1997. This is now being taken away from us against our wishes.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Has it not been ringfenced for health and social care spending? I don't have a problem with that, that's the area I want my additional N.I. contributions to be spent.

What if they ring fence the next thing for something you don’t like? The principle of breaking the devo settlement will be established.

[Glory Lurker]

As the party of devolution, Labour has to be against this.

[Santa Cruz]

What if they ring fence the next thing for something you don’t like? The principle of breaking the devo settlement will be established.

I'm not convinced they would do that, they won't want to increase support for Independence.

[Callum_62]

As the party of devolution, Labour has to be against this.Depends on what the opposite of the SNP press release is

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[Callum_62]

I'm not convinced they would do that, they won't want to increase support for Independence.Your not convinced the current tory Govt would do anything to increase support for independance?





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[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/petermacmahon/status/1435305709655269376?s=21


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Cracking thread.

[Skol]

Now confirmed that the SG will not receive the money and it will be spent by the Tories. Devolution is being rolled back.


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Where did you see that ?

[Skol]

Has it not been ringfenced for health and social care spending? I don't have a problem with that, that's the area I want my additional N.I. contributions to be spent.

That is my understanding. And we will receive c15% more than we pay in. Ok NI is not the right way to raise this money though.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm not convinced they would do that, they won't want to increase support for Independence.

In the short term, probably not. But in the longer term we will either be independent or the "threat" of indy will die back sufficiently that they won't care. The Tories are definitely moving in the direction of neutering the limited power Holyrood has.

[Santa Cruz]

In the short term, probably not. But in the longer term we will either be independent or the "threat" of indy will die back sufficiently that they won't care. The Tories are definitely moving in the direction of neutering the limited power Holyrood has.

Understand your view point, but they hurt their party politically yesterday. Increasing N.I. and pausing the triple lock will not go down well with their voters. That's a Labour gain. Yesterday's decision is a win win for me for this reason and more much needed money specifically for Health here.

[Ozyhibby]

They didn’t hurt their party politically at all. They protected wealthy old peoples inheritances by putting the cost onto poorer younger people. If you think that hurts the Tory party then you have not been paying attention.


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[ronaldo7]

Understand your view point, but they hurt their party politically yesterday. Increasing N.I. and pausing the triple lock will not go down well with their voters. That's a Labour gain. Yesterday's decision is a win win for me for this reason and more much needed money specifically for Health here.

Good luck with that.

[Santa Cruz]

They didn’t hurt their party politically at all. They protected wealthy old peoples inheritances by putting the cost onto poorer younger people. If you think that hurts the Tory party then you have not been paying attention.


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All the Labour seats in the North of England they won from Labour are not filled with typically affluent tory type voters.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes back in the lead with Opinium - Y51 N49

[Ozyhibby]

Yes back in the lead with Opinium - Y51 N49

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/0be374a84b6020bfed56667650b5f442.jpg

Feeling a bit gutted for Scotland in Union. Spent all that money on their fake poll only to see a proper one come out the same day.[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

SNP growing in popularity as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/c35670b5becd15694195c01a54ab80fb.jpg


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[hibsbollah]

SNP growing in popularity as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/c35670b5becd15694195c01a54ab80fb.jpg


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Is the +4% others likely to be solely for the Greens? If so that’s a clear movement from Labour to Green. (And also Lab to No vote).

[Moulin Yarns]

Is the +4% others likely to be solely for the Greens? If so that’s a clear movement from Labour to Green. (And also Lab to No vote).

It might include the odd couple of Alba voters.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.sky.com/story/scotland-remains-evenly-split-on-whether-to-become-an-independent-country-a-new-poll-for-sky-news-poll-reveals-12402908

Fuller article.

[CloudSquall]

https://news.sky.com/story/scotland-remains-evenly-split-on-whether-to-become-an-independent-country-a-new-poll-for-sky-news-poll-reveals-12402908

Fuller article.



" 51% support for independence is well short of the sustained 60% poll lead which the Secretary of State for Scotland recently suggested would be needed to trigger another referendum"



North Korea's iconic news presenter would shed a few tears at this one.

[StevieC]

https://news.sky.com/story/scotland-remains-evenly-split-on-whether-to-become-an-independent-country-a-new-poll-for-sky-news-poll-reveals-12402908

Fuller article.

“ 51% support for independence is well short of the sustained 60% poll lead which the Secretary of State for Scotland recently suggested would be needed to trigger another referendum”

That’ll be the figure set by Alistair “Union” Jack 🙄
Who, let’s face it, would set the figure at 75% if Independence was polling at 60%.

It was polling at around 30% last time around, so it just shows that polling figures have no relevance as to whether or not a referendum is called.

[Skol]

“ 51% support for independence is well short of the sustained 60% poll lead which the Secretary of State for Scotland recently suggested would be needed to trigger another referendum”

That’ll be the figure set by Alistair “Union” Jack 🙄
Who, let’s face it, would set the figure at 75% if Independence was polling at 60%.

It was polling at around 30% last time around, so it just shows that polling figures have no relevance as to whether or not a referendum is called.

If the polls in mid 2023 were still 50/50 or thereabouts do we think Sturgeon will ask for a referendum ?

That is is where it becomes high stakes as a No vote for a 2nd time would probably mean Independence is off the table for a long time unless we have another Brexit type event that changes things

While yes made great strides last time from 30% to 45% and have pushed up to c50/51%, is there scope to get to the point there is confidence of a yes victory

[Ozyhibby]

If the polls in mid 2023 were still 50/50 or thereabouts do we think Sturgeon will ask for a referendum ?

That is is where it becomes high stakes as a No vote for a 2nd time would probably mean Independence is off the table for a long time unless we have another Brexit type event that changes things

While yes made great strides last time from 30% to 45% and have pushed up to c50/51%, is there scope to get to the point there is confidence of a yes victory

I think it’s high stakes no matter what. I also think Sturgeon is correct to wait a bit yet.


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[Skol]

I think it’s high stakes no matter what. I also think Sturgeon is correct to wait a bit yet.


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Not often this will happen but I think we are in agreement here on both points.:thumbsup:

Now is definitely not the time for a few reasons and if polls are still as they are I think Sturgeon will delay further. There was and maybe still is an opportunity for BoJo to call Sturgeon's bluff but again as the polls are so tight that is also a high risk approach.

For all that I dont support Independence though I would like this resolved one way or the other rather than be in the sitution we are. However I dont see that happening

[Ozyhibby]

Not often this will happen but I think we are in agreement here on both points.:thumbsup:

Now is definitely not the time for a few reasons and if polls are still as they are I think Sturgeon will delay further. There was and maybe still is an opportunity for BoJo to call Sturgeon's bluff but again as the polls are so tight that is also a high risk approach.

For all that I dont support Independence though I would like this resolved one way or the other rather than be in the sitution we are. However I dont see that happening

I think when it is eventually called, the polls won’t be much different from what they are just now. Like you say though, it needs to happen because until it does, there is little focus on much else in Scottish politics.


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[StevieC]

I think it’s high stakes no matter what. I also think Sturgeon is correct to wait a bit yet.

I think this week is the start of what will be a slow process, and when it is called will depend on the outcome and responses of starting the ball rolling.

I expect “Scottish” legislation to start progressing through Holyrood, the possibility of a legal challenge, and refusals from Westminster. All of these things, and opposition responses to them, will have an effect on the polling figures.

It’s very possible that figures could be where the SNP want them to be by 2023, although it is always going to be a gamble in my view.

[Smartie]

Not often this will happen but I think we are in agreement here on both points.:thumbsup:

Now is definitely not the time for a few reasons and if polls are still as they are I think Sturgeon will delay further. There was and maybe still is an opportunity for BoJo to call Sturgeon's bluff but again as the polls are so tight that is also a high risk approach.

For all that I dont support Independence though I would like this resolved one way or the other rather than be in the sitution we are. However I dont see that happening

Sturgeon may hold off as Boris has the potential to do quite a bit of her work for her yet.

There's a fair bit of general exasperation with the whole independence/ Brexit/ constitutional debate amongst a lot of folk at the moment. I'm not sure how many people - even if they claim they might - are likely to be won over by any sort of positive case for independence being put forward by Sturgeon and the SNP.

Boris can tax the f*** out of the poorer, he can attack devolution, he can be heartless towards refugees and that's before he starts hiding in fridges and sticking his foot in his mouth repeatedly. I'd argue that these actions might be more likely to nudge switherers towards independence than anything else.

I think she'd be best off waiting a while, and I think she will.

Neither do I particularly love the permanent state of limbo btw. I'm in favour of independence, but I don't think it does much for us to have the population split right down the middle on the subject.

FWIW - this may sound nuts, but I actually think that there is some merit in Jack's 60% figure. When Scotland's moving more decisively towards a consensus on the subject, I think that's more appropriate when it comes to making what would be a seismic change rather than trying to time a referendum where it can be won 50.01% to 49.99% to either decisively change or bury a subject for a generation.

[lapsedhibee]

FWIW - this may sound nuts, but I actually think that there is some merit in Jack's 60% figure. When Scotland's moving more decisively towards a consensus on the subject, I think that's more appropriate when it comes to making what would be a seismic change rather than trying to time a referendum where it can be won 50.01% to 49.99% to either decisively change or bury a subject for a generation.

To be consistent though, a 55% No v 45% Yes vote shouldn't, for Jack, bury it for a generation, because it wouldn't reach his 60% threshold for decisivenoughness. I'm not sure if I heard him say that the 60% rule should apply to both sides.

[StevieC]

Sturgeon may hold off as Boris has the potential to do quite a bit of her work for her yet.

I was kinda alluding to that a little when I mentioned legislation and court cases in my previous post. If legislation is passed in Holyrood, and Boris refuses, then I suspect that will add to the Independence cause. If it has to go to court, again I think that will benefit the Independence cause. I’m not sure how long it can be refused before the damage is irreversible, but the Tories at Westminster are in such a bubble they probably won’t even realise the damage is being done.
Once a referendum is finally agreed it may well be at 60%.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/97f986d753152dd299eca5ced024c4f0.jpg
Another reason not to rush things.[emoji6][emoji23]


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[Hibrandenburg]

Sturgeon may hold off as Boris has the potential to do quite a bit of her work for her yet.

There's a fair bit of general exasperation with the whole independence/ Brexit/ constitutional debate amongst a lot of folk at the moment. I'm not sure how many people - even if they claim they might - are likely to be won over by any sort of positive case for independence being put forward by Sturgeon and the SNP.

Boris can tax the f*** out of the poorer, he can attack devolution, he can be heartless towards refugees and that's before he starts hiding in fridges and sticking his foot in his mouth repeatedly. I'd argue that these actions might be more likely to nudge switherers towards independence than anything else.

I think she'd be best off waiting a while, and I think she will.

Neither do I particularly love the permanent state of limbo btw. I'm in favour of independence, but I don't think it does much for us to have the population split right down the middle on the subject.

FWIW - this may sound nuts, but I actually think that there is some merit in Jack's 60% figure. When Scotland's moving more decisively towards a consensus on the subject, I think that's more appropriate when it comes to making what would be a seismic change rather than trying to time a referendum where it can be won 50.01% to 49.99% to either decisively change or bury a subject for a generation.

Agree with nearly all of this but the SNP have to find the sweet point. As long as England continues to show support for Boris and his shenanigans, then the gulf between the Scottish and English electorate will grow. But when tide turns in England and it will, then there will be a unionist revival as both nations will have a common enemy.

[heretoday]

Agree with nearly all of this but the SNP have to find the sweet point. As long as England continues to show support for Boris and his shenanigans, then the gulf between the Scottish and English electorate will grow. But when tide turns in England and it will, then there will be a unionist revival as both nations will have a common enemy.
And we all want the tide to turn, don't we?

Or do we?

[Hibrandenburg]

And we all want the tide to turn, don't we?

Or do we?

The problem with tides is they constantly go out then back in again. The next Westminster Labour government will only be the prelude to the next Westminster Tory government.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210910/be1f671a9e4f7bbc477cfb7dc27ab973.jpg
Immediate shift from SNP to greens in list voting intentions. I’m sure this would be one of the reasons both parties entered into agreement. Will hurt the unionist parties.


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[Peevemor]

Whatever you think of Nicola Sturgeon, there's no doubting that she's an excellent politician.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19571994.nicola-sturgeon-calls-janey-godley-tweets-completely-beyond-pale/


"NICOLA Sturgeon has spoken out over the “horrific” tweets by comedian Janey Godley that have resurfaced over the last few days.


Speaking on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland, the First Minister called the historic tweets “completely beyond the pale”.


Sturgeon added that the Government has prioritised Scotland’s Covid public health message after Godley was axe from its Covid ad campaign.


Social media users have been unearthing old posts from Godley’s account, and criticising her language towards disabled people, Chernobyl victims, and black celebrities.

A number of tweets have been unearthed showing the Glaswegian comedian, who is known for her voice-overs of Sturgeon’s Covid-19 breeding’s, which were described as “racist” with Godley herself labelling them “offensive” and “hurtful”.


Good Morning Scotland host Martin Geissler said: “You must be furious. Your government didn't do due diligence on JaneyGodley, a whole raft of comments she herself described as horrifically despicable.


"You made her the face of a government campaign and paid her 12 grand for the job is not a great look is it?”


Sturgeon replied: “The most important thing to me from the start of this pandemic has been the integrity over public health message.


“And that's the priority we have attached to this particular incident.


“Janey has apologised. I think she's been straightforward and dignified in her apology.


"She's a comedian, as she said herself, she thought that gave her licence to say things that she now accepts were completely out of order and unacceptable.”

Geissler then asked the First Minister if she would be as forgiving if Godley was an opponent.


Sturgeon said: “That might be a legitimate line of questioning if we had decided not to drop the advert.

“I get a lot of abuse on social media. I know that when people make mistakes, the climate that we live in, the culture we live in these days is pretty unforgiving.


“And therefore, I'm a great believer that when people make mistakes, and I apply this to myself as well, it's really important to hold your hands up to it and apologise for your that is required.


“But perhaps we should all recognise that none of us are infallible.


"Now, the tweets that were brought to my attention yesterday, were completely unacceptable, completely beyond the pale, I would not in any way, shape or form, seek to defend them.


“The most important thing is we don't allow commentary and debate, legitimate and understandable debate, around this to get in the way of a public health messages. And that, for me, is the most important principle here.”

Sturgeon said there were no plans for Godley to be used in another government ad campaign.


A Scottish Government spokesperson previously told The National: “A series of unacceptable tweets by Janey Godley have been brought to our attention and, while she has rightly apologised, trust in our public health messages at this time is paramount.


"We have therefore taken the decision to withdraw any further campaign material in which Ms Godley features. The material will be discontinued immediately on our own channels and withdrawn as soon as possible from external media.”

[lord bunberry]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/97f986d753152dd299eca5ced024c4f0.jpg
Another reason not to rush things.[emoji6][emoji23]


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They can’t leave it too long though as not calling a referendum in this parliament would see support drop off a cliff for the SNP at the next election. I’ve supported independence my entire adult life and have never voted for anyone other than the SNP. They’ve already lost my vote at council level and failure to call a referendum in this parliamentary term would leave me with a big decision to make.

[Ozyhibby]

They can’t leave it too long though as not calling a referendum in this parliament would see support drop off a cliff for the SNP at the next election. I’ve supported independence my entire adult life and have never voted for anyone other than the SNP. They’ve already lost my vote at council level and failure to call a referendum in this parliamentary term would leave me with a big decision to make.

I’m certain that they will call one this parliamentary term. That doesn’t mean there will be one though. Almost certainly the UK will take Scotland to court. And that will help build support for Indy by making it a battle for democracy.
The most important thing is to make sure we win the next referendum. The timing is secondary. Build support for Indy more than support for a referendum.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1489147/free-bus-pass-free-NHS-prescriptions-state-pension-age-DWP-UK-2021/amp


Another reason to vote for independence. We are able to make our own decisions on things like this. Imagine that we lost them due to the UK government power grab

[James310]

I’m certain that they will call one this parliamentary term. That doesn’t mean there will be one though. Almost certainly the UK will take Scotland to court. And that will help build support for Indy by making it a battle for democracy.
The most important thing is to make sure we win the next referendum. The timing is secondary. Build support for Indy more than support for a referendum.


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I think Michael Gove has already said the UK Government have no intention to take the SG to court.

This from a Labour lawyer blogger explains why.

http://ianssmart.blogspot.com/2021/05/section-29.html?m=1


(Just posting the link for information, not saying I agree or disagree)

[WhileTheChief..]

I think when it is eventually called, the polls won’t be much different from what they are just now. Like you say though, it needs to happen because until it does, there is little focus on much else in Scottish politics.


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You really think anything will change if the country votes No again?

Talk of IndyRef3 will have started before the day is out.

[H18 SFR]

Covering a class at work today, they were doing a comparison between Scotland and A N Other country.

One of their resources was a Scot Gov publication discussing amongst other things average salaries etc.

In summary, it stated, Scotland has the fourth highest pay of any nation in the United Kingdom.

This is the kind of summarising language used that pushes me away from the SNP.

The lesson turned into a greetin meeting verging on argument with any learning out the window. Two lassies screaming at each other, “we’re the fourth highest paid”, “aye the lowest”...

[Ozyhibby]

Covering a class at work today, they were doing a comparison between Scotland and A N Other country.

One of their resources was a Scot Gov publication discussing amongst other things average salaries etc.

In summary, it stated, Scotland has the fourth highest pay of any nation in the United Kingdom.

This is the kind of summarising language used that pushes me away from the SNP.

The lesson turned into a greetin meeting verging on argument with any learning out the window. Two lassies screaming at each other, “we’re the fourth highest paid”, “aye the lowest”...

How should that be presented?


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[H18 SFR]

How should that be presented?


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Exactly as it is...the lowest of the four nations of the United Kingdom.

[The Harp Awakes]

Covering a class at work today, they were doing a comparison between Scotland and A N Other country.

One of their resources was a Scot Gov publication discussing amongst other things average salaries etc.

In summary, it stated, Scotland has the fourth highest pay of any nation in the United Kingdom.

This is the kind of summarising language used that pushes me away from the SNP.

The lesson turned into a greetin meeting verging on argument with any learning out the window. Two lassies screaming at each other, “we’re the fourth highest paid”, “aye the lowest”...

Hey, it's not all about the SNP these days, the Scottish Government is now SNP/Green :greengrin

Of course your sentiment is right though, that political influence should be kept out of schools. The counter argument is that stating facts is not necessarily political influencing.

I would argue in the past, pre- Scottish Parliament/Government, political influences in schools were far worse. Like those of my age in Scotland, I sat through 6 years of primary scool and 3 years of history classes at secondary school and never heard the names William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn or Culloden ever mentioned.

Instead we were bombarded by World War 1 & 2. Funny that.

[Santa Cruz]

Hey, it's not all about the SNP these days, the Scottish Government is now SNP/Green :greengrin

Of course your sentiment is right though, that political influence should be kept out of schools. The counter argument is that stating facts is not necessarily political influencing.

I would argue in the past, pre- Scottish Parliament/Government, political influences in schools were far worse. Like those of my age in Scotland, I sat through 6 years of primary scool and 3 years of history classes at secondary school and never heard the names William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn or Culloden ever mentioned.

Instead we were bombarded by World War 1 & 2. Funny that.

I remember quite a lot of Scottish History being taught in Secondary, I dropped the subject because of the Scottish Industrial Revolution haha. Seriously though, I would have much preferred to learn about more recent history like WW11 than WW1 and something to do with Russia (I had zoned out at that point). It just wasn't a subject I enjoyed then, would probably be more into it now though.

My daughter spent an entire lesson in Modern Studies on the First Minister. I asked if they went through them all and she said nah it was just Nicola Sturgeon, who she really likes btw (bless). I would have loved Modern Studies, it sounds very interesting in general.

[Ozyhibby]

Hey, it's not all about the SNP these days, the Scottish Government is now SNP/Green :greengrin

Of course your sentiment is right though, that political influence should be kept out of schools. The counter argument is that stating facts is not necessarily political influencing.

I would argue in the past, pre- Scottish Parliament/Government, political influences in schools were far worse. Like those of my age in Scotland, I sat through 6 years of primary scool and 3 years of history classes at secondary school and never heard the names William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn or Culloden ever mentioned.

Instead we were bombarded by World War 1 & 2. Funny that.

It’s def changed now. Core part of the curriculum for Nat 5 history is the wars of independence. And when the do WW1 it is ‘Scotland and the Great War’.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Covering a class at work today, they were doing a comparison between Scotland and A N Other country.

One of their resources was a Scot Gov publication discussing amongst other things average salaries etc.

In summary, it stated, Scotland has the fourth highest pay of any nation in the United Kingdom.

This is the kind of summarising language used that pushes me away from the SNP.

The lesson turned into a greetin meeting verging on argument with any learning out the window. Two lassies screaming at each other, “we’re the fourth highest paid”, “aye the lowest”...


I presume you mean this? - https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2021/2/19/32a8c620-b227-4951-b642-44fe823009d1

"At £25,616, annual pay in Scotland for all employees is fourth highest of the nations and regions of the UK" (my bold)

There are 12 "nations and regions" of the UK, the term means Scot, NI and Wales and Eng split into 9 parts.

Still, I suppose you can now seamlessly switch to arguing how poor Scottish teaching standards have become.

[JeMeSouviens]

You really think anything will change if the country votes No again?

Talk of IndyRef3 will have started before the day is out.

Hardcore fanatics (like me :greengrin) won't give up on indy but if the people are bored and switch off to it (á la Québec) then it will disappear as a live issue.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I presume you mean this? - https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2021/2/19/32a8c620-b227-4951-b642-44fe823009d1

"At £25,616, annual pay in Scotland for all employees is fourth highest of the nations and regions of the UK" (my bold)

There are 12 "nations and regions" of the UK, the term means Scot, NI and Wales and Eng split into 9 parts.

Still, I suppose you can now seamlessly switch to arguing how poor Scottish teaching standards have become.

Made me smile....great response 👍🏻

[lapsedhibee]

Still, I suppose you can now seamlessly switch to arguing how poor Scottish teaching standards have become.

:greengrin

[He's here!]

You really think anything will change if the country votes No again?

Talk of IndyRef3 will have started before the day is out.

Indeed. It's like Groundhog Day or a stuck record, with Sturgeon & co buried deep in a lop-sided groove. The same riff just spins round and round ad nauseam. There won't be another referendum in this Scottish parliamentary session, but the SNP may still get over the line in the next election to ensure another four years of grievance politics and power without responsibility. That seems to suit them just dandy.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/indypish-3.jpg

[H18 SFR]

I presume you mean this? - https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2021/2/19/32a8c620-b227-4951-b642-44fe823009d1

"At £25,616, annual pay in Scotland for all employees is fourth highest of the nations and regions of the UK" (my bold)

There are 12 "nations and regions" of the UK, the term means Scot, NI and Wales and Eng split into 9 parts.

Still, I suppose you can now seamlessly switch to arguing how poor Scottish teaching standards have become.

That’s not what was referenced no.

[JeMeSouviens]

That’s not what was referenced no.

You should have a look at the ONS data anyway. Scotland in 2nd place for median earnings, a bawhair behind England (which as in all things UK economy is pushed up by the anomalous London) and well above both Wales and NI.

[H18 SFR]

You should have a look at the ONS data anyway. Scotland in 2nd place for median earnings, a bawhair behind England (which as in all things UK economy is pushed up by the anomalous London) and well above both Wales and NI.

I recall that one of the counties was Brazil and the data for there was historical.

I was not trying to suggest that the data was the most current or up to date.

My point was regarding the language used.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I remember quite a lot of Scottish History being taught in Secondary, I dropped the subject because of the Scottish Industrial Revolution haha. Seriously though, I would have much preferred to learn about more recent history like WW11 than WW1 and something to do with Russia (I had zoned out at that point). It just wasn't a subject I enjoyed then, would probably be more into it now though.

My daughter spent an entire lesson in Modern Studies on the First Minister. I asked if they went through them all and she said nah it was just Nicola Sturgeon, who she really likes btw (bless). I would have loved Modern Studies, it sounds very interesting in general.

Modern studies was a relatively new subject in the mid 90s.
I absolutely loved it, though thankfully we didn't do a full lesson on John Major or the then Scottish Secretary, whoever that might have been then, Forsyth perhaps?

[JeMeSouviens]

I recall that one of the counties was Brazil and the data for there was historical.

I was not trying to suggest that the data was the most current or up to date.

My point was regarding the language used.

I'd be extremely suprised if Wales or NI has had higher average earnings than Scotland in any recent year. I think your point is bollocks and based on a simple mistake.

[JeMeSouviens]

Modern studies was a relatively new subject in the mid 90s.
I absolutely loved it, though thankfully we didn't do a full lesson on John Major or the then Scottish Secretary, whoever that might have been then, Forsyth perhaps?

I did modern studies in the 80s. Although I dropped it before the O grade because the guy who taught it ws boring as. Guess which part-time geography and mod studs teacher I then got for geography. :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

I remember quite a lot of Scottish History being taught in Secondary, I dropped the subject because of the Scottish Industrial Revolution haha. Seriously though, I would have much preferred to learn about more recent history like WW11 than WW1 and something to do with Russia (I had zoned out at that point). It just wasn't a subject I enjoyed then, would probably be more into it now though.

My daughter spent an entire lesson in Modern Studies on the First Minister. I asked if they went through them all and she said nah it was just Nicola Sturgeon, who she really likes btw (bless). I would have loved Modern Studies, it sounds very interesting in general.

I have a friend who taught modern studies at Buckhaven High school, one of his pupils was a young lass called Ruth Davidson. I never let him forget it 😉

[WeeRussell]

I remember quite a lot of Scottish History being taught in Secondary, I dropped the subject because of the Scottish Industrial Revolution haha. Seriously though, I would have much preferred to learn about more recent history like WW11 than WW1 and something to do with Russia (I had zoned out at that point). It just wasn't a subject I enjoyed then, would probably be more into it now though.

My daughter spent an entire lesson in Modern Studies on the First Minister. I asked if they went through them all and she said nah it was just Nicola Sturgeon, who she really likes btw (bless). I would have loved Modern Studies, it sounds very interesting in general.

It's quite telling (or at least amusing to me) that any young person or student I know that has studied, or received any sort of political education seems to have a lot of time for the First Minister and/or are very respectful of her as a politician It doesn't tend to be these ones that come out with the hilarious and informative 'wee nippie' and 'krankie' patter. But of course that's only my experience.

As for Modern Studies.. it was my favourite Higher all those years ago but that was mainly due to liking my teacher and getting away with murder during lessons :greengrin.. it's definitely a subject with something different to offer and I found our 'mods' teachers to be really enthusiastic and knowledgeable (no, not always a give with teachers!)

[Ozyhibby]

I remember quite a lot of Scottish History being taught in Secondary, I dropped the subject because of the Scottish Industrial Revolution haha. Seriously though, I would have much preferred to learn about more recent history like WW11 than WW1 and something to do with Russia (I had zoned out at that point). It just wasn't a subject I enjoyed then, would probably be more into it now though.

My daughter spent an entire lesson in Modern Studies on the First Minister. I asked if they went through them all and she said nah it was just Nicola Sturgeon, who she really likes btw (bless). I would have loved Modern Studies, it sounds very interesting in general.

My son is doing Nat 5 History just now and I think the Russian revolution is one of the subjects.


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[Peevemor]

I also did O grade modern studies in the early 80s. My teacher was Bob Morton, a good guy and full-on socialist who made no effort to hide his attempts to influence us (it worked on most of us). He's married to Elaine C Smith who was a drama teacher at our school (Firrhill).

[H18 SFR]

I'd be extremely suprised if Wales or NI has had higher average earnings than Scotland in any recent year. I think your point is bollocks and based on a simple mistake.

If it is an error, these things happen.

[One Day Soon]

If it is an error, these things happen.

:big grin:

[CloudSquall]

Covering a class at work today, they were doing a comparison between Scotland and A N Other country.

One of their resources was a Scot Gov publication discussing amongst other things average salaries etc.

In summary, it stated, Scotland has the fourth highest pay of any nation in the United Kingdom.

This is the kind of summarising language used that pushes me away from the SNP.

The lesson turned into a greetin meeting verging on argument with any learning out the window. Two lassies screaming at each other, “we’re the fourth highest paid”, “aye the lowest”...

Any chance you can cover for a student the next time? :greengrin

[H18 SFR]

Any chance you can cover for a student the next time? :greengrin

Not going to lie, it was a hard 50 minutes trying to stop them bickering.

[degenerated]

Exactly as it is...the lowest of the four nations of the United Kingdom.Scotland is treated as a region in these exercises and I think you'll find that it is the 4th highest region in the UK rather than a country. It is behind London, Midlands and south East I would imagine.
I wouldn't believe for a minute that average earnings in Scotland are below that of Wales, Northern Ireland, Yorkshire, Lancashire, north East England.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/rejoining-eu-would-put-rocket-boosters-on-scotlands-covid-recovery


Light the blue touch paper....

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/1437002764987637761?s=21

Membership behind the patient approach of the party leadership.


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[7 Up]

https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/1437002764987637761?s=21

Membership behind the patient approach of the party leadership.

It's the only approach that makes sense. People aren't going to think seriously about independence until covid is less of a concern.

[Northernhibee]

Longer that the Brexit ****show runs, the better the chance yes has.

The Brexit ****show ain’t going anywhere.

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/1437002764987637761?s=21

Membership behind the patient approach of the party leadership.


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Looking through that thread I came across this,


Andrew Wilson on the BBC's Sunday Show said "the timing has to be right" for indyref2 and "there needs to be a very solid campaign, a good referendum campaign that allows arguments to be outed"

I mean **** me, how many years have we heard the same pish about "outing arguments"?

I'm as yes as yes can be and agree with holding off on holding a referendum, but if we're in for more years of "lets have that debate, lets make the argument" without actually doing either of the two it will boil my pish to say the least.


And as I'm on a rant I hope the SNP has thought up something better than Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission which amounted to "we'll change nothing for at least 10 years and then maybe have a wee think about doing something slightly different"

[Future17]

Stuart Campbell to co-author Salmond's "Wee Alba Book". #lunaticfringe

[ardecos]

Modern studies was a relatively new subject in the mid 90s.
I absolutely loved it, though thankfully we didn't do a full lesson on John Major or the then Scottish Secretary, whoever that might have been then, Forsyth perhaps?

I don't know if it was relatively new. My Modern Studies ''O' grade dates from 1974.

[Future17]

I don't know if it was relatively new. My Modern Studies ''O' grade dates from 1974.

After 20 years, all Modern Studies certificates become History qualifications.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sturgeon not mincing her words.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/13/nicola-sturgeon-urges-snp-to-resist-brexit-arguments-against-independence

[Ozyhibby]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/nicola-sturgeon-boris-johnson-scottish-independence-constitutional-headlock-1196692


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[Keith_M]

Sturgeon not mincing her words.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/13/nicola-sturgeon-urges-snp-to-resist-brexit-arguments-against-independence



Is that phrase still acceptable nowadays?

Sounds a bit homophobic to me.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is that phrase still acceptable nowadays?

Sounds a bit homophobic to me.

Awe ffs, that's ground meat and tatties off the menu now.

[Bristolhibby]

Is that phrase still acceptable nowadays?

Sounds a bit homophobic to me.

I just assumed it meant mushing your words together as if it were mince.

I never thought it was an anti gay slur.

J

[ronaldo7]

Is that phrase still acceptable nowadays?

Sounds a bit homophobic to me.

Mince round will be banned in butchers next. :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

I just assumed it meant mushing your words together as if it were mince.

I never thought it was an anti gay slur.

J

I'd always assumed it meant saying something without worrying about offending someone.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/mince-words.html

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/independent/status/1437447464378830853?s=21


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[One Day Soon]

I just assumed it meant mushing your words together as if it were mince.

I never thought it was an anti gay slur.

J


I have never seen it said or suggested that this term is an anti-gay slur. I hope its not going to be retrofitted as such.

[ronaldo7]

Back on track.

https://twitter.com/StaceyMcCrear92/status/1437732215383859200

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/independent/status/1437447464378830853?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis is fine

Atleast he's not a comedian who was employed by the government.... Oh, actually

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[Radium]

Is that phrase still acceptable nowadays?

Sounds a bit homophobic to me.

Mincing around & Mincing your words have always had distinct meanings. The former referring to a dainty walk.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I have never seen it said or suggested that this term is an anti-gay slur. I hope its not going to be retrofitted as such.

I'm sure the statement from Keith M was a joke, as was my reply.

[Santa Cruz]

Mincing around & Mincing your words have always had distinct meanings. The former referring to a dainty walk.


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Bit in bold, I always took it to mean camp, would that be correct?

[lapsedhibee]

Mincing around & Mincing your words have always had distinct meanings.

:hmmm:

Not mincing words = straight talking

Not mincing = straight

Clear homophobic slur, Hibrandenburg and Sturgeon should be cancelled. :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Bit in bold, I always took it to mean camp, would that be correct?

Scout camp or BB camp?

[Moulin Yarns]

Scout camp or BB camp?

Carry on....

[ronaldo7]

Carry on....

Up the Khyber :dunno:

[One Day Soon]

I'm sure the statement from Keith M was a joke, as was my reply.


A whoosh moment for me!

There are few if any regular posters on .net that I'd ever think were being intentionally homophobic, racist or any other 'ic's or 'ist's.

[Radium]

Bit in bold, I always took it to mean camp, would that be correct?

That was always my understanding. Not heard it used in decades


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/gordon-brown-calls-for-end-to-boris-johnsons-muscular-unionism-3384548

Gordon Brown is back. More of the same from him. The Tories are terrible, we have to stick with them.[emoji849]


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[DaveF]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/gordon-brown-calls-for-end-to-boris-johnsons-muscular-unionism-3384548

Gordon Brown is back. More of the same from him. The Tories are terrible, we have to stick with them.[emoji849]


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Tories bad, nationalists bad, labour good.

Bore off Gordon.

[Jack]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/gordon-brown-calls-for-end-to-boris-johnsons-muscular-unionism-3384548

Gordon Brown is back. More of the same from him. The Tories are terrible, we have to stick with them.[emoji849]


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I had to laugh when I saw the front page and he was saying Scotland and England were moving closer together. In what way I wondered.

[Ozyhibby]

https://inews.co.uk/news/john-whittingdale-public-sector-broadcasters-british-only-fools-fleabag-1201634

24/7 propaganda coming our way.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I had to laugh when I saw the front page and he was saying Scotland and England were moving closer together. In what way I wondered.

Geology isn't his strongest subject, he clearly doesn't understand tectonic plates!

[Smartie]

I had to laugh when I saw the front page and he was saying Scotland and England were moving closer together. In what way I wondered.

I’d be interested in how they selected the people to take part.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1438474812129746949

Humza should think before calling an ambulance for this fall 😆

[Jones28]

https://inews.co.uk/news/john-whittingdale-public-sector-broadcasters-british-only-fools-fleabag-1201634

24/7 propaganda coming our way.


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Somebody dig up Kenneth Williams, quick!

[Lendo]

https://inews.co.uk/news/john-whittingdale-public-sector-broadcasters-british-only-fools-fleabag-1201634

24/7 propaganda coming our way.


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Sid James, that famously British actor.......

[Moulin Yarns]

Somebody dig up Kenneth Williams, quick!

What a carry on!!

[One Day Soon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1438474812129746949

Humza should think before calling an ambulance for this fall 😆


It's like a clown car in human form. Nice guy, never a serious politician.

[weecounty hibby]

Tories bad, nationalists bad, labour good.

Bore off Gordon.
What he means is SNP bad. Labour good. Tories acceptable

[ronaldo7]

Massive blow for the Indy movement. Annie Wells has been sacked. :boo hoo:

[CloudSquall]

Massive blow for the Indy movement. Annie Wells has been sacked. :boo hoo:

Wasn't absolute staunch enough.

[Santa Cruz]

Wasn't absolute staunch enough.

She resigned for health reasons.

[CloudSquall]

Didn't open the link as it's behind a paywall but I see The Telegraph has sounded the "black hole" Klaxon.

Net borrowing for the rest of the world, black holes for Scotland.

[degenerated]

Didn't open the link as it's behind a paywall but I see The Telegraph has sounded the "black hole" Klaxon.

Net borrowing for the rest of the world, black holes for Scotland.It's in all the unionist media, I got as far as impartial think tank and gave up. 25107

[StevieC]

Didn't open the link as it's behind a paywall but I see The Telegraph has sounded the "black hole" Klaxon.

Net borrowing for the rest of the world, black holes for Scotland.

If you Google “Scotland black hole” you will notice that various media sources will trot this out every 6 months or so.

In August 2020 we were informed of a £15.1bn black hole, and that this was set to rise because of the pandemic.

So today’s announcement in The Telegraph of an £8.5bn black hole seems to suggest that the Scottish government has actually halved its deficit during the pandemic.

It does make you wonder though, given that Scotland has a fixed budget and is not able to run a deficit, how they actually arrive at these figures.

[Glory Lurker]

Amazing for a country that can't borrow money. I'd say it's something to he proud of, actually.

[ronaldo7]

They just make it up.

I remember someone asking if we voted no in 2014, would we end up with the Tories and Boris Johnson and out of the EU... Don't be ridiculous, they said.

They only bought time back then.

Time is up.

[One Day Soon]

Lol

[ronaldo7]

Lol

Wrong thread. You forgot your number. 🙈

[degenerated]

Looks like Henry McLeish's fence finally gave way.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19603663.former-labour-first-minister-henry-mcleish-yes-support-independence/

[CloudSquall]

Looks like Henry McLeish's fence finally gave way.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19603663.former-labour-first-minister-henry-mcleish-yes-support-independence/

"The party dismissed Mr McLeish as "yesterday’s man desperately seeking relevance"

Good to see Sarwar's mob taking it well, that's sure to get him back on side :greengrin

[degenerated]

"The party dismissed Mr McLeish as "yesterday’s man desperately seeking relevance"

Good to see Sarwar's mob taking it well, that's sure to get him back on side :greengrinOld Pishy Breeks comments aren't much better.

"I have heard of rats leaving a sinking ship, but I have never heard of rats joining a sinking ship"

[Bostonhibby]

Old Pishy Breeks comments aren't much better.

"I have heard of rats leaving a sinking ship, but I have never heard of rats joining a sinking ship"Is this the same old snake that endorsed Vladimir Romanov to Hearts? The Vladimir Romanov that, so to speak, sunk their ship along with quite a few creditors ships as well.

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[degenerated]

Is this the same old snake that endorsed Vladimir Romanov to Hearts? The Vladimir Romanov that, so to speak, sunk their ship along with quite a few creditors ships as well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkSame rat who'd sunk a few before assaulting a copper :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

Old Pishy Breeks comments aren't much better.

"I have heard of rats leaving a sinking ship, but I have never heard of rats joining a sinking ship"

Another example of the statement "Yesterdays man desperately seeking relevance" :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Queen 'privately funding' :faf: son's legal defence.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/queen-prince-andrew-epstein-millions-legal-case-b1931084.html

[Ozyhibby]

Queen 'privately funding' :faf: son's legal defence.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/queen-prince-andrew-epstein-millions-legal-case-b1931084.html

Let’s not kid ourselves, this money is coming from us.


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[CloudSquall]

What gets me about those that absolutely lap up the Royal family, the flag wavers etc, is that they go right along with the BBC's arrogance about North Koreans as if they are a bunch of deluded brainwashed idiots, when in reality they (the Royal worshipers) are some levels above the North Koreans in the deluded stakes.

[Ozyhibby]

What gets me about those that absolutely lap up the Royal family, the flag wavers etc, is that they go right along with the BBC's arrogance about North Koreans as if they are a bunch of deluded brainwashed idiots, when in reality they (the Royal worshipers) are some levels above the North Koreans in the deluded stakes.

Royal family is like a religion for some.


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[JimBHibees]

Looks like Henry McLeish's fence finally gave way.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19603663.former-labour-first-minister-henry-mcleish-yes-support-independence/

Always liked Henry hopefully more follow his lead.

[Smartie]

Always liked Henry hopefully more follow his lead.

I was going to agree, until I realised you weren't talking about the royals here.

[Ozyhibby]

I was going to agree, until I realised you weren't talking about the royals here.

[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1444809523106127877?s=21

With Douglas Ross and the Tories now bypassing our parliament and installing unelected lawmakers to look after Scotland, are supporters of the union on here supportive of this rolling back of democracy?


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[Kato]

https://twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1444809523106127877?s=21

With Douglas Ross and the Tories now bypassing our parliament and installing unelected lawmakers to look after Scotland, are supporters of the union on here supportive of this rolling back of democracy?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's like his football team, rules don't matter.

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[Bangkok Hibby]

https://twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1444809523106127877?s=21

With Douglas Ross and the Tories now bypassing our parliament and installing unelected lawmakers to look after Scotland, are supporters of the union on here supportive of this rolling back of democracy?


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I would suggest for the majority yes they are.

[Skol]

https://twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1444809523106127877?s=21

With Douglas Ross and the Tories now bypassing our parliament and installing unelected lawmakers to look after Scotland, are supporters of the union on here supportive of this rolling back of democracy?


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I think this was a Johnson decision rather than one that Ross had any influence over. However I agree with the Independence supporters on this matter and it should not have happened. It doesnt change my mind on Independence but makes me feel even more isolated as I dont support the Tories or Independence and there is no coherent point in between those two

[Ozyhibby]

I think this was a Johnson decision rather than one that Ross had any influence over. However I agree with the Independence supporters on this matter and it should not have happened. It doesnt change my mind on Independence but makes me feel even more isolated as I dont support the Tories or Independence and there is no coherent point in between those two

Unfortunately for you, the Tories are going to make you choose between democracy and the Union. You can’t have both. I’m interested to see which way people will go.
When faced with the choice of progressive policies or the union, the Labour Party went with the Union. Lots of its members chose differently.
This is a much bigger choice to make though I would think? Democracy should be more important to people I would think?


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[Skol]

Unfortunately for you, the Tories are going to make you choose between democracy and the Union. You can’t have both. I’m interested to see which way people will go.
When faced with the choice of progressive policies or the union, the Labour Party went with the Union. Lots of its members chose differently.
This is a much bigger choice to make though I would think? Democracy should be more important to people I would think?


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It really feels like a rubbish position to be in. Totally disenfranchised with the UK government but also totally against Independence.

If the SNP want to push the dial they need to ponder on how they change their approach to appeal to the likes on me. Right now it is just a big no mans land

[Smartie]

It really feels like a rubbish position to be in. Totally disenfranchised with the UK government but also totally against Independence.

If the SNP want to push the dial they need to ponder on how they change their approach to appeal to the likes on me. Right now it is just a big no mans land

I think what "people like you" :wink: are holding out for is for someone to come along and shake some sense into a large chunk of the English population.

If they were to get a grip then a lot of the solutions (solutions which still appear unpalatable to you, are admittedly far from perfect but do solve a lot of problems) would just not be necessary.

Sadly it looks like hell would likely freeze over before that would happen, meaning that trying to make a success of independence remains Scotland's best option imo.

These are the dying days of the English empire and their people are struggling to cope with it. We also lose by tethering ourselves to it.

[Skol]

I think what "people like you" :wink: are holding out for is for someone to come along and shake some sense into a large chunk of the English population.

If they were to get a grip then a lot of the solutions (solutions which still appear unpalatable to you, are admittedly far from perfect but do solve a lot of problems) would just not be necessary.

Sadly it looks like hell would likely freeze over before that would happen, meaning that trying to make a success of independence remains Scotland's best option imo.

These are the dying days of the English empire and their people are struggling to cope with it. We also lose by tethering ourselves to it.

In part I agree but also think someone needs to shake some sense into the Independence movement as well. Lets be honest about the implications of Independence and how we will mitigate those risks and move forward.

I read a really depressing article yesterday where they had interviewed a bunch of english people who seemed fully behind whats going on right now. Change down there is at least one election away, probably even further.

[Ozyhibby]

In part I agree but also think someone needs to shake some sense into the Independence movement as well. Lets be honest about the implications of Independence and how we will mitigate those risks and move forward.

I read a really depressing article yesterday where they had interviewed a bunch of english people who seemed fully behind whats going on right now. Change down there is at least one election away, probably even further.

Totally agree with you that the Indy movement have to be honest about some of the challenges that we will have to face. They are mostly short term in the setting up of civil service infrastructure and currency etc but if people are prepared for what is coming they will accept it.
Unlike Brexit, we will at least not have to worry about our future trading relationships. Those have been set now. Trade with England will become slightly more difficult and trade with EU a lot easier. This will result in a rebalancing of our trade, much like what Ireland has done over the last 20 years.
Those are all fixable problems though.
The biggest thing we need to make clear is that Indy Scotland will be a full democracy from top to bottom. No unelected law makers. Ever.


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[Skol]

Totally agree with you that the Indy movement have to be honest about some of the challenges that we will have to face. They are mostly short term in the setting up of civil service infrastructure and currency etc but if people are prepared for what is coming they will accept it.
Unlike Brexit, we will at least not have to worry about our future trading relationships. Those have been set now. Trade with England will become slightly more difficult and trade with EU a lot easier. This will result in a rebalancing of our trade, much like what Ireland has done over the last 20 years.
Those are all fixable problems though.
The biggest thing we need to make clear is that Indy Scotland will be a full democracy from top to bottom. No unelected law makers. Ever.


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I am almost falling off my chair with all this agreement !

I am not as convinced as you are that the changes are short term and in some cases there could be quite difficult situations to be overcome. I agree that people may come round to these if they are acknowledged and we know how they will be tackled.

As I see it though we are stuck right now and we need a change on one or other side to tip the balance, Thats not coming from the UK any time soon and there is a chance for SNP to change tack.

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/phantompower14/status/1444809523106127877?s=21

With Douglas Ross and the Tories now bypassing our parliament and installing unelected lawmakers to look after Scotland, are supporters of the union on here supportive of this rolling back of democracy?


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He makes a valid point about Derek Mackay getting paid 100k for doing nothing:

Douglas Ross promises 'Mackay's Law' to oust absent MSPs - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58780992)

[Ozyhibby]

He makes a valid point about Derek Mackay getting paid 100k for doing nothing:

Douglas Ross promises 'Mackay's Law' to oust absent MSPs - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58780992)

I think all political parties agree on Mackay.


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[ronaldo7]

He makes a valid point about Derek Mackay getting paid 100k for doing nothing:

Douglas Ross promises 'Mackay's Law' to oust absent MSPs - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58780992)

Great idea.

Maybe dross can pick one of his many jobs to do 100% rather than only doing some of the job and picking up a full wage for it. #seldomseeninparliament

[degenerated]

He makes a valid point about Derek Mackay getting paid 100k for doing nothing:

Douglas Ross promises 'Mackay's Law' to oust absent MSPs - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58780992)It would be more valid if he was focussed on his job at Holyrood rather than having another job at Westminster and SFA.