Scottish Independence

[CropleyWasGod]

Fair enough bit what do the figures look like now, Scotland now has a higher percentage of Pensioners and a smaller manufacturing industry the balance of what we make and what we pay out has changed . . Not to our benefit !



The figures are there.... go and look at them. Don't ask me. Do your own research, and don't listen to the politicians on either side.

[Pretty Boy]

Oh it will be an end ... To life as you know it .. But not for the better !!

Is that you Alistair?

[Hibs7]

Still doesn't make him a liar.

Here you go . Free child care for every one paid for by the mothers who will go back to work..
1. What % will actually go back to work ?
2. Where are the jobs
3. How many will work full time
4. How much tax will this generate

Until he has answered these questions then by providing free child care supposedly finances by the mothers working full time and paying tax is a lie .

[Hibs7]

Then your book is wrong, forming an opinion based on the information at hand (see CWG's earlier post) is not lying.

It is when you are selective in your information chosen

[Hibs7]

The figures are there.... go and look at them. Don't ask me. Do your own research, and don't listen to the politicians on either side.

The figures I have seen show that Scotland per head of population receive more from Westminster than they contribute. ..

[CropleyWasGod]

The figures I have seen show that Scotland per head of population receive more from Westminster than they contribute. ..

What are they, and what is your source?

And what makes you think that Scotland CANNOT be a viable economy... which is the real question.

[MyJo]

The figures I have seen show that Scotland per head of population receive more from Westminster than they contribute. ..

So why are they so desperate for us to stay part of the UK and continue subsidising us?

If Letting us go independent was going to save UK taxpayers £5bn a year why on earth is Westminster so desperate for us to stay in the UK?

[Hibs7]

What are they, and what is your source?

It has been quoted recently in the papers and roughly we get over £1. Ish. Per head more than we contribute actual source I can't provide but I will
Have a look

[Hibs7]

So why are they so desperate for us to stay part of the UK and continue subsidising us?

If Letting us go independent was going to save UK taxpayers £5bn a year why on earth is Westminster so desperate for us to stay in the UK?

I honest do not think it is for financial reasons but that is my opinion

[CropleyWasGod]

It has been quoted recently in the papers and roughly we get over £1. Ish. Per head more than we contribute actual source I can't provide but I will
Have a look

I can almost guarantee that it will be from someone with an agenda. Just as this is:-

the most recent Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (GERS) figures show that Scotland contributes 9.9 per cent of UK tax revenues, but gets just 9.3 per cent of public spending. It means Scotland generates an average of £11,079 in taxes, compared with £9,342 for the rest of the UK.

Nationalist Mid Scotland and Fife MSP Annabelle Ewing accused pro-Union campaigners of painting a “distorted picture” of Scotland’s finances.

“When both sides of the balance sheet are looked at together, Scotland more than pays its way in the UK,” she said.

“Over the five years to 2011-12, Scotland has been financially stronger than the UK as a whole to the tune of £12.6 billion.

“And Scotland has contributed more tax per head than the rest of the UK in each and every one of the last 32 years – proving we can more than afford to be a successful independent country.”

Which is my point. Look for your own information. Once you have that, tell me why iS COULDN'T be viable.

[Hibs7]

I can almost guarantee that it will be from someone with an agenda. Just as this is:-

the most recent Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (GERS) figures show that Scotland contributes 9.9 per cent of UK tax revenues, but gets just 9.3 per cent of public spending. It means Scotland generates an average of £11,079 in taxes, compared with £9,342 for the rest of the UK.

Nationalist Mid Scotland and Fife MSP Annabelle Ewing accused pro-Union campaigners of painting a “distorted picture” of Scotland’s finances.

“When both sides of the balance sheet are looked at together, Scotland more than pays its way in the UK,” she said.

“Over the five years to 2011-12, Scotland has been financially stronger than the UK as a whole to the tune of £12.6 billion.

“And Scotland has contributed more tax per head than the rest of the UK in each and every one of the last 32 years – proving we can more than afford to be a successful independent country.”

Which is my point. Look for your own information. Once you have that, tell me why iS COULDN'T be viable.

All based on oil figure which are declining yearly !

[Just Alf]

And just as many disagree and provide figures to confirm
It .. Salmond goes for all the figures that fit his agenda without any facts to justify them . I would rather believe the boss of BP than AS on oil reserves. !!

s'funny

BP's Bob Dudley is apparently following the BT "party line" .... i wonder why he decided his own companies reporting is inaccurate?

http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/about-bp/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

[MyJo]

I honest do not think it is for financial reasons but that is my opinion

I can understand Labour wanting us to stay part of the union as it strengthens thier position in general elections but David Cameron and the conservatives have no love for Scotland, they have no support or votes in scotland but in a time of austerity when they are cutting everything back to the bone they are practically begging and playing a underhand game of scaremongering and intimidation in order to keep, what your telling us is, a £5bn a year drain on the taxpayers of rUK.

Doesn't add up i'm afraid.

[Stranraer]

Try walking along Princes st mate . Then deny it !

I've walked along it plenty of times thank you as a Hibs fan. Their nationality is irrelevant, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Hibs7]

We also have NO army, navy or Air Force plus embassies world wide .. All additional costs which would knock a huge hole in our national budget !

[Hibs7]

I've walked along it plenty of times thank you as a Hibs fan. Their nationality is irrelevant, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Rubbish it is managed begging by people who come here and contribute nothing to the country. .

[johnbc70]

Still doesn't make him a liar.

What was all that nonsense about him saying they had legal advice about the EU but they never really did have it.

[Stranraer]

Rubbish it is managed begging by people who come here and contribute nothing to the country. .

And you are contributing nothing but xenophobia to this thread.

[MyJo]

We also have NO army, navy or Air Force plus embassies world wide .. All additional costs which would knock a huge hole in our national budget !

We would get a proportion of the UK's armed forces, scottish service personnel will get the choice to stay in the UK forces or join the scottish regiments which will then be built up to an appropriate size for the requirements of our country.......will still probably be cheaper than what we will have to contribute to maintaining and replacing trident within the UK over the next 10 years.

[xyz23jc]

The figures I have seen show that Scotland per head of population receive more from Westminster than they contribute. ..

This might help.....Doubt it though!

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/where-does-scotlands-wealth-go/

[johnbc70]

I can understand Labour wanting us to stay part of the union as it strengthens thier position in general elections but David Cameron and the conservatives have no love for Scotland, they have no support or votes in scotland but in a time of austerity when they are cutting everything back to the bone they are practically begging and playing a underhand game of scaremongering and intimidation in order to keep, what your telling us is, a £5bn a year drain on the taxpayers of rUK.

Doesn't add up i'm afraid.

It's not just what Cameron or what the government want it's about what the people they represent want. A recent survey showed only 19% of English people, not politicians, wanted us to leave the UK.

[Just Alf]

All based on oil figure which are declining yearly !

BP's latest report (linked elsewhere on this thread) say's reserves have gone up 27% over the past 10 years

[Just Alf]

BP's latest report (linked elsewhere on this thread) say's reserves have gone up 27% over the past 10 years

I think that's "accessible reserves" ......

[CropleyWasGod]

Rubbish it is managed begging by people who come here and contribute nothing to the country. .
Do they not spend money here?

Think I'm going to back out of debating with you. It's clear that your policies are so far to the right of mine that we will never agree on anything :)

[Hibrandenburg]

What was all that nonsense about him saying they had legal advice about the EU but they never really did have it.
Him quoting someone who lied doesn't make him a liar, naive maybe but not a liar.

[southsider]

It's not just what Cameron or what the government want it's about what the people they represent want. A recent survey showed only 19% of English people, not politicians, wanted us to leave the UK.
They are, or were the Conservative and Unionist Party but i think that may have to do with Ireland rather than Scotland.

[johnbc70]

They are, or were the Conservative and Unionist Party but i think that may have to do with Ireland rather than Scotland.

I am missing your point?

[Beefster]

4 years of failure!!! Aye that's a good one!! After the devestation the Tories have caused in my country?? It's time to rid ourselves not from our English friends but from governments the majority of scots don't and never want.... Optimists v pessimists... Hope v fear.... Course there will be hard and testing times, but hard and testing times WE can do something about with absolute power and control with a government WE voted for. :thumbsup:

The majority of Scots didn't want the SNP government.

[southsider]

The majority of Scots didn't want the SNP government.
Wrong, they hold an overall majority in Scottish Parliament. We (Scotland) voted them in.

[southsider]

I am missing your point?
Tories were and are pro- union, anti devolution. It is in their DNA. They are now saying devo max but a leopard does not change it's spots.

[snooky]

Just wondering, will the 'Don't Knows' vote for Darec Salmeron?

[johnbc70]

Tories were and are pro- union, anti devolution. It is in their DNA. They are now saying devo max but a leopard does not change it's spots.

My point it is the people, the ordinary folk like me and you that want us to stay part of the UK. A lot of people seem to say it's only politicians that want us to stay and only because of money. I am balancing that by saying that's not the case at all and the ordinary folk of the UK want us to stay.

[Hibs7]

Do they not spend money here?

Think I'm going to back out of debating with you. It's clear that your policies are so far to the right of mine that we will never agree on anything :)

I could tell you stories of Eastern European gangs stealing from all mJor shops in Edinburgh .. They cost a lot more than they contribute . Your views are too socialist for me !

[Leith Green]

Wow, watching Reporting Scotland on BBC, its the first time I have come away thinking they were actually unbiased.. If anyone else watched, ud probably have noticed a massive difference from every night this week, wonder why?

Wonder wether Salmond bringing them to task, and the massive petition doing the rounds is the reason?

If they had just stayed neutral all along then its quite probable that more voters watching would have come away with a different view

[Leith Green]

Tories were and are pro- union, anti devolution. It is in their DNA. They are now saying devo max but a leopard does not change it's spots.

but their so called devo-max is far from being that, there are so many if ans buts it frightening, they cannot actually guarantee any of it.

[MyJo]

I could tell you stories of Eastern European gangs stealing from all mJor shops in Edinburgh .. They cost a lot more than they contribute . Your views are too socialist for me !

I dont know this or the fact you think the Forth Bridge Tolls being stopped is a negative thing is funnier.

[Mikey09]

I could tell you stories of Eastern European gangs stealing from all mJor shops in Edinburgh .. They cost a lot more than they contribute . Your views are too socialist for me !


Having worked in the police for years I could tell you stories of gangs in Edinburgh stealing from all major shops and contributing nothing to our society.... They cost a lot more than they contribute too..

[CropleyWasGod]

I could tell you stories of Eastern European gangs stealing from all mJor shops in Edinburgh .. They cost a lot more than they contribute . Your views are too socialist for me !
I have to congratulate you on calling me a socialist. That's the first time anyone has called me that in almost 40 years :)

Chapeau, monsieur.

[stoneyburn hibs]

That does not make sense. !

Believe me, it makes so much sense.

[RyeSloan]

Wrong, they hold an overall majority in Scottish Parliament. We (Scotland) voted them in.

Show me the evidence that the majority of those that voted wanted an SNP government because the figure I saw for the SNP share of the vote was less than 50%. Therefore the majority did NOT vote for the party that now hold a majority....

The line that you will get the government you vote for is complete bollocks.

We've had this discussion already and it was pointed out that it may well be more representative of the Scottish people than Westminster but there is every chance that it will not be the government you voted for.

[#FromTheCapital]

One thing I'm not comfortable with is how close the vote is. Whatever side wins, the chances (according to various polls) are that we are going to have marginally under half of our nation against the result. This will cause problems going forward, major problems..and further divide. Going to be a lot of pissed off Scots next Friday.

[southsider]

Could any of the YES guys iyk tell me this. If we vote YES how soon do we get to vote on a Republic ? And can we get a new National Anthem. In fact Anthem by SAHB would do just fine. (The Sensational Alex Harvey Band for our younger viewers).

[southsider]

Show me the evidence that the majority of those that voted wanted an SNP government because the figure I saw for the SNP share of the vote was less than 50%. Therefore the majority did NOT vote for the party that now hold a majority....

The line that you will get the government you vote for is complete bollocks.

We've had this discussion already and it was pointed out that it may well be more representative of the Scottish people than Westminster but there is every chance that it will not be the government you voted for.
Well vote for whom ever you like but in the last election (and i did not vote SNP), they got more votes so formed a government. What is so hard to understand, my friend ?

[johnbc70]

Wrong, they hold an overall majority in Scottish Parliament. We (Scotland) voted them in.

Sorry mate your wrong. Less than 50% of the vote is not the majority in my book.

[southsider]

Sorry mate your wrong. Less than 50% of the vote is not the majority in my book.
Of seats in our parliament. So i am not wrong.

[PeeJay]

Scotland at the end of the day has to really asks itself one question: Will things be any better after it goes independent? Really? There is no point breaking up the UK for little to no change in people's lives. I personally hope you guys vote NO ...

I haven't contributed that much, and I won't be able to contribute any more I think until after it's all over (vacation calls), like to thank all you guys for making this - for me that is - an enjoyable and interesting debate, some nonsense on here, but a great deal has been honest, knowledgeable and committed debate.

Good luck to my old homeland, whatever way you vote ...

[DaveF]

Scotland at the end of the day has to really asks itself one question: Will things be any better after it goes independent? Really? There is no point breaking up the UK for little to no change in people's lives. I personally hope you guys vote NO ...

I haven't contributed that much, and I won't be able to contribute any more I think until after it's all over (vacation calls), like to thank all you guys for making this - for me that is - an enjoyable and interesting debate, some nonsense on here, but a great deal has been honest, knowledgeable and committed debate.

Good luck to my old homeland, whatever way you vote ...

Or "Will things be any better if we stay in the Union? Really?"

Enjoy yer holidays :greengrin

[DaveF]

One thing I'm not comfortable with is how close the vote is. Whatever side wins, the chances (according to various polls) are that we are going to have marginally under half of our nation against the result. This will cause problems going forward, major problems..and further divide. Going to be a lot of pissed off Scots next Friday.

Yep, could well be the case if it is indeed by a percent or two.

Good Luck to whoever wins!

[johnbc70]

Of seats in our parliament. So i am not wrong.

Hang on, you said Beefster was wrong when he was correct. Beefster said the majority of people did not vote SNP and that is 100% correct and you said he was wrong. So your still wrong, your getting your seats at parliament mixed up with overall % of the vote. They have majority at parliament but the majority of people never voted for them.

[hibsbollah]

Could any of the YES guys iyk tell me this. If we vote YES how soon do we get to vote on a Republic ? And can we get a new National Anthem. In fact Anthem by SAHB would do just fine. (The Sensational Alex Harvey Band for our younger viewers).

A very good point. I want a good anthem. And better sports coverage on tv. Whats the tv dividend? Does anyone have a policy of getting rid of BBC Scotland? Can we get a proper weatherman like Thomas Schafernaker who flips the bird at anchormen instead of Judith bloody Ralston? **** the currency, these things are what matter :grr:

[southsider]

Hang on, you said Beefster was wrong when he was correct. Beefster said the majority of people did not vote SNP and that is 100% correct and you said he was wrong. So your still wrong, your getting your seats at parliament mixed up with overall % of the vote. They have majority at parliament but the majority of people never voted for them.
Ok, but it was very clear mandate or we would never having this vote.

[snooky]

Wow, watching Reporting Scotland on BBC, its the first time I have come away thinking they were actually unbiased.. If anyone else watched, ud probably have noticed a massive difference from every night this week, wonder why?

Wonder wether Salmond bringing them to task, and the massive petition doing the rounds is the reason?

If they had just stayed neutral all along then its quite probable that more voters watching would have come away with a different view

I thought the same. At long last some parity.

[MyJo]

ma·jor·i·ty (m-jôr-t, -jr-)
n. pl. ma·jor·i·ties
1. The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total.
2. The amount by which the greater number of votes cast, as in an election, exceeds the total number of remaining votes.
3. The political party, group, or faction having the most power by virtue of its larger representation or electoral strength.
4. Law The status of having reached full legal age, with attendant rights and responsibilities.
5. The military rank, commission, or office of a major.
6. Obsolete The fact or state of being greater; superiority.

[johnbc70]

ma·jor·i·ty (m-jôr-t, -jr-)
n. pl. ma·jor·i·ties
1. The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total.
2. The amount by which the greater number of votes cast, as in an election, exceeds the total number of remaining votes.
3. The political party, group, or faction having the most power by virtue of its larger representation or electoral strength.
4. Law The status of having reached full legal age, with attendant rights and responsibilities.
5. The military rank, commission, or office of a major.
6. Obsolete The fact or state of being greater; superiority.

In what land is 45.4% of the vote a majority?

I agree they have a majority in parliament.

Can we let this go now.

[Mikey09]

In what land is 45.4% of the vote a majority?

I agree they have a majority in parliament.

Can we let this go now.


No. Did the scottish people vote the SNP into power??

[SteveHFC]

http://s15.postimg.org/glcsboe63/Capture3.png

[johnbc70]

No. Did the scottish people vote the SNP into power??

We have been over this. Did the SNP get more than 50% of the vote on the 2011 election? Yes or No?

[MyJo]

In what land is 45.4% of the vote a majority?

I agree they have a majority in parliament.

Can we let this go now.


In political terms, when there is more than 2 options available to voters and the largest proportion of the voters have voted for a party to enable them to form a single party government then they have the support of the majority of the voting public.

In purely statistical terms, yes the majority of people voted for "other parties" but in the terms of an election with 5 options available a 45% return is a significant majority of the vote as defined in the dictionary entry i posted above.

[Peevemor]

We have been over this. Did the SNP get more than 50% of the vote on the 2011 election? Yes or No?

Sorry, but this argument is daft. They got more votes than anyone else, but not everyone else. This is always going to happen when there are more than 2 parties running.

[johnbc70]

In political terms, when there is more than 2 options available to voters and the largest proportion of the voters have voted for a party to enable them to form a single party government then they have the support of the majority of the voting public.

In purely statistical terms, yes the majority of people voted for "other parties" but in the terms of an election with 5 options available a 45% return is a significant majority of the vote as defined in the dictionary entry i posted above.

Thanks, so the majority voted for other parties.

Agree this is daft now so I won't be posting again on this and actually I am out until Thursday. Good luck all.

[WeeRussell]

I could tell you stories of Eastern European gangs stealing from all mJor shops in Edinburgh .. They cost a lot more than they contribute . Your views are too socialist for me !

I was going to reply to one of your earlier posts, with a view on the general referendum subject, but having read on - you're not worth it.

You, whether you realise/accept it or not, are a racist; and adopt the attitude that Scotland, independent or not, could do without. You are also the kind of person who is not helping the NO side of things at this point.

It wouldn't surprise me all that much if you are looking to remain part of the union in order to be part of a UKIP-led nation.

[Hiber-nation]

Could any of the YES guys iyk tell me this. If we vote YES how soon do we get to vote on a Republic ? And can we get a new National Anthem. In fact Anthem by SAHB would do just fine. (The Sensational Alex Harvey Band for our younger viewers).

:top marks

Brilliant suggestion! Although I couldnae see the Scotland team singing along to "Telling stories to the peacocks, selling systematically" :wink:

[Mikey09]

We have been over this. Did the SNP get more than 50% of the vote on the 2011 election? Yes or No?


You would make a damned fine politician with the way you avoid answering a question with another question john!! :thumbsup: ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!! Did the people vote them to power??

[Mikey09]

I was going to reply to one of your earlier posts, with a view on the general referendum subject, but having read on - you're not worth it.

You, whether you realise/accept it or not, are a racist; and adopt the attitude that Scotland, independent or not, could do without. You are also the kind of person who is not helping the NO side of things at this point.

It wouldn't surprise me all that much if you are looking to remain part of the union in order to be part of a UKIP-led nation.


Beat at me to it WeeRussell!!! :top marks

[DaveF]

http://s15.postimg.org/glcsboe63/Capture3.png

Why?

[CropleyWasGod]

Why?

Possibly to do with the suggestion that BBC leaked market-sensitive information about RBS before telling the Stock Exchange.

[Stranraer]

Could any of the YES guys iyk tell me this. If we vote YES how soon do we get to vote on a Republic ? And can we get a new National Anthem. In fact Anthem by SAHB would do just fine. (The Sensational Alex Harvey Band for our younger viewers).

I hope there is a referendum on the monarchy after 2016. I heard that a resolution passed at the 1997 SNP conference means in the event of a YES vote there would be a referendum on the Royal scroungers.

[SkintHibby]

The truth is, we can all argue till we are blue in the face but the truth is, our lives are not going to change that much either way in my opinion.

The argument has come full circle and the basic question will be staring us in the face next week...

For me it's not so much whether you think Scotland should be an independent country but whether you WANT Scotland to be an independent country.

[Stranraer]

The truth is, we can all argue till we are blue in the face but the truth is, our lives are not going to change that much either way in my opinion.

The argument has come full circle and the basic question will be staring us in the face next week...

For me it's not so much whether you think Scotland should be an independent country but whether you WANT Scotland to be an independent country.

Two cheeks of the same arse mate.

[SkintHibby]

Two cheeks of the same arse mate.

I know that. :wink:

[The Harp Awakes]

Why?

I'd assume because of the Treasury's alleged leak about the RBS' announcement.

Likely not much will come of it, but not good PR for the Westminster sewer rats impersonating public servants, not that their reputation could be any lower after this weeks's events.

[Moulin Yarns]

In what land is 45.4% of the vote a majority?

I agree they have a majority in parliament.

Can we let this go now.

It isn't if there are 2 options but once you have more than 2 the majority is whoever gets more than anyone else.

[The Harp Awakes]

Treasury leak; the plot thickens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29185319

Having criticised the BBC, well done Peston for reporting this.

[MyJo]

I'd assume because of the Treasury's alleged leak about the RBS' announcement.

Likely not much will come of it, but not good PR for the Westminster sewer rats impersonating public servants, not that their reputation could be any lower after this weeks's events.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29185319


These bankers also tell me they don't believe this was a case of market abuse, or the illegal release of price sensitive information, because the UK and US stock markets were shut at the time of the briefing. Even so, an RBS shareholder, Peter de Vink, has today written to the City of London Police Commissioner, the chief constable of Police Scotland, the chief executive of the Financial Conduct Authority and the Lord Advocate of Scotland asking all of them to investigate the release of information relating to RBS's relocation.

Brushed under the carpet i'm betting.

And this part pretty much sums up the governments attitude to scotland IMO:


The Treasury had known for weeks of this plan to migrate south, because RBS believed it needed primary legislation in parliament to effect it, and the bank had been asking the Treasury whether it would agree to such legislation.
I am told the Treasury had refused to commit to legislate, because the government had made a decision on principle not to make any contingency plans for the possibility of Scotland voting yes to independence.

They haven't taken this seriously at any point.

[CropleyWasGod]

Treasury leak; the plot thickens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29185319

Having criticised the BBC, well done Peston for reporting this.

I am not a fan of Peston, but he has been playing with a straighter bat than Robinson.

It was Peston who Tweeted about Cameron meeting with the supermarket bosses.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29185319



Brushed under the carpet i'm betting.

And this part pretty much sums up the governments attitude to scotland IMO:



They haven't taken this seriously at any point.

It doesn't actually matter whether anything is done about it. Salmond is playing the Fergie game of "they're all out to get us". Might be worth a few thousand votes.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Could any of the YES guys iyk tell me this. If we vote YES how soon do we get to vote on a Republic ? And can we get a new National Anthem. In fact Anthem by SAHB would do just fine. (The Sensational Alex Harvey Band for our younger viewers).

Tale of the giant stone eater :agree:

[bawheid]

It doesn't actually matter whether anything is done about it. Salmond is playing the Fergie game of "they're all out to get us". Might be worth a few thousand votes.

A guy at my work who was on the fence has decided he's voting Yes because of the last few days' fearmongering.

[DaveF]

Not sure if it's been posted already but here is the BBC response to complaints about Robinson's lie over his clash with Salmond

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/comp...ndrbsquestion/

[The Harp Awakes]

A guy at my work who was on the fence has decided he's voting Yes because of the last few days' fearmongering.

Heard a few folk saying in the last few days they've switched from No to Yes due to Westminster antics this week. Of course others may swallow the scaremongering which adds to the uncertainty of the result on Thursday.

[Judas Iscariot]

A guy at my work who was on the fence has decided he's voting Yes because of the last few days' fearmongering.

Excellent...

The NO campaign is doing the YES campaigns job for them...

[MyJo]

Excellent...

The NO campaign is doing the YES campaigns job for them...

The orange order and farage over the weekend will help massively as well

[Mikey09]

The orange order and farage over the weekend will help massively as well


I bet the better together campaign are bricking it that farage, I can't even type his name without laughing, opens his gob ***** mouth and turns more voters to yes.... My message to auld Nige is "crack on old chap..... Give us your worst." Fanny...

[MyJo]

I bet the better together campaign are bricking it that farage, I can't even type his name without laughing, opens his gob ***** mouth and turns more voters to yes.... My message to auld Nige is "crack on old chap..... Give us your worst." Fanny...

This is gonna be fun

http://news.sky.com/story/1334655/farage-urges-queen-to-oppose-scotland-split

Do you think he realises that the queen coming out and telling us to save the union is more likely to gain votes for yes than it is for no?

[MyJo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753696/Yes-campaigners-march-polling-stations-playing-bagpipes-intimidate-voters-backing-Salmond-s-dream-Scottish-independence.html

They have no shame!

The daily mail and better together complaining about "intimidation" because yes supporters are organising bagpipe led marches to polling stations in communities that are engaging in politics and voting in unprecedented numbers.

Maybe it was the offer of face painting and balloons for the kids that has them terrified. Bunch of numpties

[Albion Hibs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753696/Yes-campaigners-march-polling-stations-playing-bagpipes-intimidate-voters-backing-Salmond-s-dream-Scottish-independence.html

They have no shame!

The daily mail and better together complaining about "intimidation" because yes supporters are organising bagpipe led marches to polling stations in communities that are engaging in politics and voting in unprecedented numbers.

Maybe it was the offer of face painting and balloons for the kids that has them terrified. Bunch of numpties

yeah you are right it is them that have no shame...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/day-of-reckoning-post-yes-vote-says-jim-sillars-1-3539754

[The Harp Awakes]

yeah you are right it is them that have no shame...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/day-of-reckoning-post-yes-vote-says-jim-sillars-1-3539754

Sorry Albion, not sure what point you are making:dunno:

Are you defending BP?

[MyJo]

yeah you are right it is them that have no shame...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/day-of-reckoning-post-yes-vote-says-jim-sillars-1-3539754

Jim Sillars has nothing to do with the Scottish government, he is a lone voice with some crackpot ideas that have nothing to do with the SNP's proposals for iScotland.

As it says in the article once you get past the headlines


The Yes campaign described Mr Sillars, whose rift with Mr Salmond is believesd to have begun moreb than 20 years ago as a “passionate campaigner” but refused to endorse his manifesto.

A spokesman for Yes Scotland said: “Jim is a passionate campaigner who is carrying on the work of his late wife Margo MacDonald, who dedicated her political life to achieving an independent Scotland and a fairer society. The current Scottish Government’s proposals for an independent Scotland are set out in great detail in the white paper - including the job-creating powers Scotland so badly needs - and that is what people are voting for.

[Albion Hibs]

Jim Sillars has nothing to do with the Scottish government, he is a lone voice with some crackpot ideas that have nothing to do with the SNP's proposals for iScotland.

As it says in the article once you get past the headlines

BUT he has everything to do with the yes campaign, that is the key thing. The yes gang are always the first to remind people this is about independence and not the SNP.

[MyJo]

BUT he has everything to do with the yes campaign, that is the key thing. The yes gang are always the first to remind people this is about independence and not the SNP.

The yes campaign have already said they don't endorse any of his manifesto though? What's your point

[The Harp Awakes]

BUT he has everything to do with the yes campaign, that is the key thing. The yes gang are always the first to remind people this is about independence and not the SNP.

I respect your views mate. People have their own reasons for voting yes or no next Thursday. You sound like you will vote no whatever happens and I'm the same on the Yes side.

One question though. What is your view on the performance of the Yes and No campaigns to date?

P.S - I'm hoping you are not a politician and/or activist and you will be honest in your answer, conscious of the fact we have yes and no tinted specs?

[Albion Hibs]

I respect your views mate. People have their own reasons for voting yes or no next Thursday. You sound like you will vote no whatever happens and I'm the same on the Yes side.

One question though. What is your view on the performance of the Yes and No campaigns to date?

P.S - I'm hoping you are not a politician and/or activist and you will be honest in your answer, conscious of the fact we have yes and no tinted specs?

the debates from both sides have been poor. I was there to be won, but not once have I seen a yes leader answer the question they were asked, rather they ignore the question answer one that they make up and look for the applause. Re the white paper I was fuming that I burnt hours reading it, it should have had a lab puppy on the front!

The one credit i will give the yes campaign was the creation of "scaremongering", from the start rather than tell people they are wrong, or lying they used this phrase, it is actually very clever as rather than accusing the whole world of lying, they are just seen to be storytelling, which is much lighter hearted and draws far less attention.

Out with that I work in financial services, so it would be like turkey's voting for xmas! The news and reaction of the markets and the world has been pretty staggering from where I sit Monday to Friday, and it has been since May/June and especially over the last 3-4 weeks. With a young family I have no desire to repeat the crap that we all had to live through for the last few years!

[The Harp Awakes]

Answers on a postcard please:

On the Eve of the independence referendum on Thursday, what will be the mother of all scaremongering tactics announced by Project Fear?

As a starter for 10, I'll go for; every distillery in Scotland re-locating to China if there is a 'yes' vote.

[The Harp Awakes]

the debates from both sides have been poor. I was there to be won, but not once have I seen a yes leader answer the question they were asked, rather they ignore the question answer one that they make up and look for the applause. Re the white paper I was fuming that I burnt hours reading it, it should have had a lab puppy on the front!

The one credit i will give the yes campaign was the creation of "scaremongering", from the start rather than tell people they are wrong, or lying they used this phrase, it is actually very clever as rather than accusing the whole world of lying, they are just seen to be storytelling, which is much lighter hearted and draws far less attention.

Out with that I work in financial services, so it would be like turkey's voting for xmas! The news and reaction of the markets and the world has been pretty staggering from where I sit Monday to Friday, and it has been since May/June and especially over the last 3-4 weeks. With a young family I have no desire to repeat the crap that we all had to live through for the last few years!

Fair enough. I agree with you to a degree. I think independence is a step into the unknown. Markets hate uncertainty and being in Financial Services I can see that you and your colleagues would view independence as something to avoid. We can argue who/what de-stabilised the markets this week though; the opinion poll lead for Yes or David Cameron and his headless chickens creating uncertainty.

Back to the facts; after the hysteria of Monday into Tuesday, the markets and the £ have stabilised. Looking at the bigger picture, the UK is a dead duck and the markets will slowly but surely realise this and equilibrate. If there is a no vote on Thursday Scotland will get enhanced powers soon (assuming Westminster politicians keep their pledge). In turn, this will lead to further autonomy for UK regions and possibly to a federal UK. Again the markets will dislike that but will adjust through time.

Again, assuming a 'no' vote on Thursday (which in my view is unlikely), based on the most recent opinion poll of 51/49, this outcome will still give a massive mandate for an SNP Government to push for another independence referendum, I'd say within 10 years.

Salmond achieved a minority Government in 2007. Against all odds he achieved a majority Government in 2011. Now he is within a whisker of securing an independent Scotland within 7 years of being in office despite a Union of 300 years. Quite a remarkable achievement in anyone's book.

I believe there will be a Yes vote next Thursday. But if there isn't, how many years to independence if we miss out this time? The markets and Banks must wake up to the inevitable and of course they will adjust.

[Beefster]

Sorry, but this argument is daft. They got more votes than anyone else, but not everyone else. This is always going to happen when there are more than 2 parties running.

I was just busting the myth that is frequently perpetuated that, in an independent Scotland, a majority of Scots will get the government they vote for. It's so obviously false that it's not really up for debate.

Just another 'promise' that is made that isn't predicated on fact.

[steakbake]

What I want to know is if the supermarkets are saying a Yes will lead to higher prices, does that mean a No will mean prices will either stay exactly as they are or go down? Forever? I find that a bit hard to believe like all the rest of it.

Big business has thrown the kitchen sink at Yes this week, mainly thanks to Westminster orchestrating it. A shift of 2% to No within the margin of error shows it's not working.

Yes will win this.

[Beefster]

It can only be a matter of time before Deutsche Bank and/or their chief economist is attacked as a UK stooge/right-wing fat cat/enemy of democracy/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

[marinello59]

It can only be a matter of time before Deutsche Bank and/or their chief economist is attacked as a UK stooge/right-wing fat cat/enemy of democracy/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

Deutche bank tells Scots electorate they really have no idea what they are doing and a Yes vote will lead to the end of the world as we know it. That sound like a fair summary?

[BroxburnHibee]

It can only be a matter of time before Deutsche Bank and/or their chief economist is attacked as a UK stooge/right-wing fat cat/enemy of democracy/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

Yep because petty insults have only been thrown from one side of the fence.....

[Beefster]

Deutche bank tells Scots electorate they really have no idea what they are doing and a Yes vote will lead to the end of the world as we know it. That sound like a fair summary?

That's one way of not addressing their points, I suppose.


Yep because petty insults have only been thrown from one side of the fence.....

Straw man.

[Albion Hibs]

Fair enough. I agree with you to a degree. I think independence is a step into the unknown. Markets hate uncertainty and being in Financial Services I can see that you and your colleagues would view independence as something to avoid. We can argue who/what de-stabilised the markets this week though; the opinion poll lead for Yes or David Cameron and his headless chickens creating uncertainty.

Back to the facts; after the hysteria of Monday into Tuesday, the markets and the £ have stabilised. Looking at the bigger picture, the UK is a dead duck and the markets will slowly but surely realise this and equilibrate. If there is a no vote on Thursday Scotland will get enhanced powers soon (assuming Westminster politicians keep their pledge). In turn, this will lead to further autonomy for UK regions and possibly to a federal UK. Again the markets will dislike that but will adjust through time.

Again, assuming a 'no' vote on Thursday (which in my view is unlikely), based on the most recent opinion poll of 51/49, this outcome will still give a massive mandate for an SNP Government to push for another independence referendum, I'd say within 10 years.

Salmond achieved a minority Government in 2007. Against all odds he achieved a majority Government in 2011. Now he is within a whisker of securing an independent Scotland within 7 years of being in office despite a Union of 300 years. Quite a remarkable achievement in anyone's book.

I believe there will be a Yes vote next Thursday. But if there isn't, how many years to independence if we miss out this time? The markets and Banks must wake up to the inevitable and of course they will adjust.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think the markets are reacting this way because there may be a no vote. The uk is one of the strongest investment markets in the world, are you suggesting that people are taking our billions of pounds almost daily because the country might be the same on the 19th as it was on the 18th?

I believe that now that the facts and realities are coming out people who were voting yes may re-consider, those that have not decided may well look at things and think what exactly is my vote going to do with to this country and all of its future generations, other than salmond and sturgeon giving some romantic notion with no plan as to how to get there. The cake is only so big, they would do well to think about that.

The markets and the banks do not have to wake up to anything, nor will they be investing in anything before the whole deal is completed and a track record is established, I would go for between 6-8 years based on the unlikely timescale set out by salmond.

I am glad that all of the facts behind the dangers to the future of our country and now coming out, my only disappointment is they did not come out sooner. I think plenty of voters that now feel they have to vote yes as they have been talking about it for so long and they would not have done so if they felt they were in full possession of the facts. That said I know at least 3or4 people that said at the end of the week they were now voting no having previously been yes - a real indicator as to the dangers of that decision if you ask me. Being blunt I don't know anyone that has heard that we could face financial ruin from all corners of the world and decided that they were going to vote yes.

[BroxburnHibee]

That's one way of not addressing their points, I suppose.



Straw man.

Thank you

[Leith Green]

I think you are kidding yourself if you think the markets are reacting this way because there may be a no vote. The uk is one of the strongest investment markets in the world, are you suggesting that people are taking our billions of pounds almost daily because the country might be the same on the 19th as it was on the 18th?

I believe that now that the facts and realities are coming out people who were voting yes may re-consider, those that have not decided may well look at things and think what exactly is my vote going to do with to this country and all of its future generations, other than salmond and sturgeon giving some romantic notion with no plan as to how to get there. The cake is only so big, they would do well to think about that.

The markets and the banks do not have to wake up to anything, nor will they be investing in anything before the whole deal is completed and a track record is established, I would go for between 6-8 years based on the unlikely timescale set out by salmond.

I am glad that all of the facts behind the dangers to the future of our country and now coming out, my only disappointment is they did not come out sooner. I think plenty of voters that now feel they have to vote yes as they have been talking about it for so long and they would not have done so if they felt they were in full possession of the facts. That said I know at least 3or4 people that said at the end of the week they were now voting no having previously been yes - a real indicator as to the dangers of that decision if you ask me. Being blunt I don't know anyone that has heard that we could face financial ruin from all corners of the world and decided that they were going to vote yes.



Albion

Question for you. What do you think the result will be on friday morning? Obviously we both want different things, just interested to see how you see it panning out.

Cheers

[Moulin Yarns]

I was just busting the myth that is frequently perpetuated that, in an independent Scotland, a majority of Scots will get the government they vote for. It's so obviously false that it's not really up for debate.

Just another 'promise' that is made that isn't predicated on fact.


However, it gets something closer to representation than the Westminster government due to the PR electoral system when compared to Westminster. The obvious example is the Conservatives have 15 seats in Edinburgh but only 1 Scottish Conservative is in London. Those 15 are made up of 3 on the first past the post and the other 12 are from the regional list.

This is more representative of voting intention than Westminster, so I would argue that Scotland does get the government it votes for.

dozens of pages back I answered this in far greater detail breaking all the main party votes down to the % votes and% seats over the life of the Scottish Parliament, and the first 2 parliaments had far more Labour seats than votes warranted, and the 2nd 2 was more skewed to the SNP.

[WestEndHibee]

It can only be a matter of time before Deutsche Bank and/or their chief economist is attacked as a UK stooge/right-wing fat cat/enemy of democracy/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

Not a UK stooge, just intrinsically linked through the ownership of UK debt.

[CapitalGreen]

It can only be a matter of time before Deutsche Bank and/or their chief economist is attacked as a UK stooge/right-wing fat cat/enemy of democracy/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/deutsche-bank-boss-compared-yes-vote-to-blunders-that-led-to-great-depressi.1410553551

It can only be a matter of time before WPP and/or their CEO Sir Martin Sorrell is attacked as a cyber nat/left-wing fantasist/enemy of internationalism/a multitude of other insults...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101994242

[Phil D. Rolls]

The orange order and farage over the weekend will help massively as well

I hope the Orange Walk gets full coverage on BBC, first story on the news, plenty of analysis, and interviews with the rank and file, it's very very important that reasonable people throughout the UK, are allowed to hear their arguments in support of the union.

Sadly, I fear they will be a footnote, and the main news will e spent asking shoppers how well prepared Scotland will be to resist an attack by aliens.

[QUOTE=Albion Hibs;4165841]the debates from both sides have been poor. I was there to be won, but not once have I seen a yes leader answer the question they were asked, rather they ignore the question answer one that they make up and look for the applause. Re the white paper I was fuming that I burnt hours reading it, it should have had a lab puppy on the front!

The one credit i will give the yes campaign was the creation of "scaremongering", from the start rather than tell people they are wrong, or lying they used this phrase, it is actually very clever as rather than accusing the whole world of lying, they are just seen to be storytelling, which is much lighter hearted and draws far less attention.

Out with that I work in financial services, so it would be like turkey's voting for xmas! The news and reaction of the markets and the world has been pretty staggering from where I sit Monday to Friday, and it has been since May/June and especially over the last 3-4 weeks. With a young family I have no desire to repeat the crap that we all had to live through for the last few years![/

You realise that by giving in to the people that are the cause of the crap we've been living through, you are damning us to more of the same? Do you think there is another part of the UK that is set up to take the jobs and expertise that exists in the Scottish financial sector?

I think if Manchester or Leeds had anything like the expertise that exists in Edinburgh and Glasgow, they'd have been more successful financial centres than they are.

Theres nothing wrong with admitting that Scotland has a thriving financial sector because we are bloody good at it. You seem to be taking the line that we are successful because people feel sorry for us.

It seems all project fear had to do was to say "will nobody think of our children". More and more people are coming out with similar crap.

The problem is, sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and hoping that doing nothing will somehow make things better, is not the answer.

Believe it, or not, yes supporters have children too. They believe that the way to make a better future for them is to change a system that clearly does not work.

One of BTs biggest insult is to suggest that yes voters haven't thought about the future. It was thinking about our kids future that brought a lot of us to this position.

People laughed at that campaign video with the ignorant woman in her kitchen. Sadly, I think she was very representative of No voters.

[CapitalGreen]

I think you are kidding yourself if you think the markets are reacting this way because there may be a no vote. The uk is one of the strongest investment markets in the world, are you suggesting that people are taking our billions of pounds almost daily because the country might be the same on the 19th as it was on the 18th?

Over the last 12 months (264) trading days.

The FTSE 100 fell by a greater % than it did on Monday on 70 days.
The FTSE All Share fell by a greater % than it did on Monday on 56 days.

Read the markets, not the headlines.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Spokesman from Hargreaves Lansdown a big deal in IASs Pensions and the like on the BBC news channel just now failing to bite on the financial doomsday stuff and saying they have no plans to advise folk to take money out of Scottish banks and financial institutions, and saying that as far as they are concerned they wont be doing that in the future. He also said that his firm had next to no evidence that those involved with Hargreaves Lansdown had been moving money or accounts from Scottish banks.

What I was about to post just as that caught my eye was:

BORIS JOHNSON:

Just been elected as candidate for safe Conservative seat of Uxbridge. First step on the way to leadership of the Tory party .... the Conservative / UKIP anti EU dream team begins to take shape ....... as to their plans for a post No Scotland ...... well, that gives me the shivers.

Amusingly ..... In a quote I read attributed to him he said that people who said that the UK leaving the EU would lead to money being taken out of the UK and financial turmoil were ........................ wait for it, wait for it .................................. "scaremongering"

[hibbydog]

A pretty poor campaign from both sides has left me none the wiser.

Yes have kept going on about oil revenues when they should be talking about investment in green energy - we have one of the windiest countries in Europe with great potential also for tidal and wave power. Investment in green energy should have been the cornerstone of their economic policy. They've missed a trick.

No campaign has been unbelievably negative and led by the privately educated Westminster political elite. They should have been much clearer and quicker about their intentions to give more powers to the Scottish parliament. I think that's what everyone really wants - more autonomy for the Scottish parliament but without the risks that go with the step into the dark.

There has been nothing but playground squabbling in the debates, and some pretty childish squabbles at that. Would it have been so outlandish for both sides to negotiate the terms of independence prior to the vote (at least in principal) so that we have something solid to base our decision on?

I'm worried about the risks to my pension and mortgage. All of my work comes from down south. I'm leaning towards no but have changed my mind several times within the last month. There's still time to change it back!!!!.

The fact were having a referendum is a great thing, and is the envy of many countries in Europe - look at the Catalans for example. But as things stand, my brain is saturated, I don't know who to believe and I'll be glad when it's over and done with.

Cheers

[Phil D. Rolls]

A pretty poor campaign from both sides has left me none the wiser.

Yes have kept going on about oil revenues when they should be talking about investment in green energy - we have one of the windiest countries in Europe with great potential also for tidal and wave power. Investment in green energy should have been the cornerstone of their economic policy. They've missed a trick.

No campaign has been unbelievably negative and led by the privately educated Westminster political elite. They should have been much clearer and quicker about their intentions to give more powers to the Scottish parliament. I think that's what everyone really wants - more autonomy for the Scottish parliament but without the risks that go with the step into the dark.

There has been nothing but playground squabbling in the debates, and some pretty childish squabbles at that. Would it have been so outlandish for both sides to negotiate the terms of independence prior to the vote (at least in principal) so that we have something solid to base our decision on?

I'm worried about the risks to my pension and mortgage. All of my work comes from down south. I'm leaning towards no but have changed my mind several times within the last month. There's still time to change it back!!!!.

The fact were having a referendum is a great thing, and is the envy of many countries in Europe - look at the Catalans for example. But as things stand, my brain is saturated, I don't know who to believe and I'll be glad when it's over and done with.

Cheers

Oh me, oh my.....:greengrin:

Stop worrying and start thinking. That includes thinking hard about whether either sides claims are realistic, and which one you would trust.

Come on, make a decision, and stop dithering about.

[Jack]

I've read this thread from post 1 and its been great debate.

There's pages and pages of good quality debate, definitely better than out there between the two sides and whats reported in the MSM.

Every now and again though there's a wee upsurge in the comedy value for a few pages in much the same way I suppose as Nigel popping up for a chat.

[MyJo]

A pretty poor campaign from both sides has left me none the wiser.

Yes have kept going on about oil revenues when they should be talking about investment in green energy - we have one of the windiest countries in Europe with great potential also for tidal and wave power. Investment in green energy should have been the cornerstone of their economic policy. They've missed a trick.

No campaign has been unbelievably negative and led by the privately educated Westminster political elite. They should have been much clearer and quicker about their intentions to give more powers to the Scottish parliament. I think that's what everyone really wants - more autonomy for the Scottish parliament but without the risks that go with the step into the dark.

There has been nothing but playground squabbling in the debates, and some pretty childish squabbles at that. Would it have been so outlandish for both sides to negotiate the terms of independence prior to the vote (at least in principal) so that we have something solid to base our decision on?

I'm worried about the risks to my pension and mortgage. All of my work comes from down south. I'm leaning towards no but have changed my mind several times within the last month. There's still time to change it back!!!!.

The fact were having a referendum is a great thing, and is the envy of many countries in Europe - look at the Catalans for example. But as things stand, my brain is saturated, I don't know who to believe and I'll be glad when it's over and done with.

Cheers

Good post.

Fwiw I think the no side have been focused on the oil more than the he's side, it's clearly an integral part of a Scottish economy but the yes side have deliberately downplayed it's significance in this debate while the no side have continually brought it up telling us we can't base an economy on it.

As for the negotiations on a referendum it was David Cameron that refused any plans for an independent Scotland until a yes vote was given, the uncertainty and lack of answers is a deliberate ploy to hamper the yes campaign

[Leith Green]

A pretty poor campaign from both sides has left me none the wiser.

Yes have kept going on about oil revenues when they should be talking about investment in green energy - we have one of the windiest countries in Europe with great potential also for tidal and wave power. Investment in green energy should have been the cornerstone of their economic policy. They've missed a trick.

No campaign has been unbelievably negative and led by the privately educated Westminster political elite. They should have been much clearer and quicker about their intentions to give more powers to the Scottish parliament. I think that's what everyone really wants - more autonomy for the Scottish parliament but without the risks that go with the step into the dark.

There has been nothing but playground squabbling in the debates, and some pretty childish squabbles at that. Would it have been so outlandish for both sides to negotiate the terms of independence prior to the vote (at least in principal) so that we have something solid to base our decision on?

I'm worried about the risks to my pension and mortgage. All of my work comes from down south. I'm leaning towards no but have changed my mind several times within the last month. There's still time to change it back!!!!.

The fact were having a referendum is a great thing, and is the envy of many countries in Europe - look at the Catalans for example. But as things stand, my brain is saturated, I don't know who to believe and I'll be glad when it's over and done with.

Cheers


The Yes campaign have been going on about renewable energy, the Greens are for Yes and that is something they believe in

[Albion Hibs]

The delusion at times does astound me. I see yet another link to a country that 'we could be like', I don't often see them putting up ones of Greece, funny that!

I am not putting the future of my family and theirs on the nonsense white paper and the chance that eck salmond will be successful in every single avenue of his negotiation, why do people think he will be? Furthermore if people think the economy will last till all that is said and done then they need to think again. It is not about fear but reality, and there has been a noticeable shift in the angry undertones of the yes gang since the reality started coming out.

[RyeSloan]

Oh me, oh my.....:greengrin: Stop worrying and start thinking. That includes thinking hard about whether either sides claims are realistic, and which one you would trust. Come on, make a decision, and stop dithering about.

How can you trust what either side says?

How do you know what is realistic, the white paper, the conflicting economic arguments, the scale of the potential upheaval? It's all so 'unknown' and not really the basis to make such a fundamental decision on.

I'm with the OP on this one...a good balanced post that probably a lot of people can empathise with.

[Albion Hibs]

The Yes campaign have been going on about renewable energy, the Greens are for Yes and that is something they believe in

renewable energy is something which is currently massively subsidised though, so when our wages from oil run out we replace it with something that loses money?

[CapitalGreen]

renewable energy is something which is currently massively subsidised though, so when our wages from oil run out we replace it with something that loses money?

Subsidised to allow us to further develop the technology, making it cheaper and more efficient. Being subsidised doesn't mean it is loss making, it just means it is not the most efficient method. The subsidy is to offset the shortfall caused by the inefficiency.

The planet is moving towards renewables, I want Scotland to be at the forefront of that movement, not playing catch up.

[Phil D. Rolls]

How can you trust what either side says?

How do you know what is realistic, the white paper, the conflicting economic arguments, the scale of the potential upheaval? It's all so 'unknown' and not really the basis to make such a fundamental decision on.

I'm with the OP on this one...a good balanced post that probably a lot of people can empathise with.

Agreed. I have decided to go for the side that appears to have a plan for the future, rather than the one that doesn't. I gave up on No because they weren't offering solutions.

In addition, I worry about the way English politics are developing, with an increasingly xenophobic, and isolationist attitude in evidence.

[Phil D. Rolls]

renewable energy is something which is currently massively subsidised though, so when our wages from oil run out we replace it with something that loses money?

No, we wait for the Union to help us out. And then we wait. And then we wait a bit longer.

Seven of the poorest regions in Europe are in the North of England - the richest is London. What does that tell you about the Union.

[Albion Hibs]

Subsidised to allow us to further develop the technology, making it cheaper and more efficient. Being subsidised doesn't mean it is loss making, it just means it is not the most efficient method. The subsidy is to offset the shortfall caused by the inefficiency.

The planet is moving towards renewables, I want Scotland to be at the forefront of that movement, not playing catch up.


My point is when something that makes up 15% upwards of the nations bank account runs out it has always been stated that renewable energy will replace! yet it either loses or does not make money. How can any country sustain this loss?

You point is different, it is about renewable energy, and I don't disagree with it, but you don't need independence to achieve it. How does a campaign / white paper based so heavily on oil extraction sit with your green principles?

[Mon Dieu4]

Good article by Cosgrove here

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/09/12/balance-failure-bbc-scottish-independence-referendum-coverage-wrong-and-not?desktop=1

[CapitalGreen]

My point is when something that makes up 15% upwards of the nations bank account runs out it has always been stated that renewable energy will replace! yet it either loses or does not make money. How can any country sustain this loss?

You point is different, it is about renewable energy, and I don't disagree with it, but you don't need independence to achieve it. How does a campaign / white paper based so heavily on oil extraction sit with your green principles?

It depends whether you think renewables will become more efficient in the future or not. The experts seems to think they will, hence the continued investment around the world, and I'm inclined to believe them over somebody on a football forum (no offence).

[Jamesconnolly]

To vote yes is to be TRULY Scottish

[Colonel_HFC]

The delusion at times does astound me. I see yet another link to a country that 'we could be like', I don't often see them putting up ones of Greece, funny that!

I am not putting the future of my family and theirs on the nonsense white paper and the chance that eck salmond will be successful in every single avenue of his negotiation, why do people think he will be? Furthermore if people think the economy will last till all that is said and done then they need to think again. It is not about fear but reality, and there has been a noticeable shift in the angry undertones of the yes gang since the reality started coming out.

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

[Peevemor]

My point is when something that makes up 15% upwards of the nations bank account runs out it has always been stated that renewable energy will replace! yet it either loses or does not make money. How can any country sustain this loss?

You point is different, it is about renewable energy, and I don't disagree with it, but you don't need independence to achieve it. How does a campaign / white paper based so heavily on oil extraction sit with your green principles?

Global economics dictate that the oil will be exploited, green principles or not. Scotland has the potential in both research capacity and geography/resources to be at the forefront in renewable energies. We all know Westminster's track record when it comes to supporting Scottish industry, yet you can't see how an independent Scotland, aided in the 'short' term by oil revenue, is the best way forward?

[Peevemor]

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

Wow!

[BarneyK]

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

Latest ICM poll interprets No voters as more driven by feelings of nationalism, whereas Yes voters cite a dislike of the Westminster model of crony capitalism.

[CapitalGreen]

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

Property in Scotland is now gonna be worthless? That's a new one, an absolute belter it is too.

[Peevemor]

Property in Scotland is now gonna be worthless? That's a new one, an absolute belter it is too.

I'm surprised it's not been reported in the Daily Mail. Yet.

[Mon Dieu4]

Property in Scotland is now gonna be worthless? That's a new one, an absolute belter it is too.

I'm all for it, think I will become a property tycoon in the new Scotland by buying worthless properties for peanuts :agree:

[Betty Boop]

To vote yes is to be TRULY Scottish


Nonsense ! So if you vote NO you can't be a proud Scot ?

[#FromTheCapital]

To vote yes is to be TRULY Scottish

Perhaps you're at the wind up here, but I'm going to bite anyway.

I'm Scottish because I was born and raised in Scotland. Just because I don't buy into a nationalists vision of how great an independent Scotland could be doesn't make me any less Scottish. So your post is complete bull**** and it makes me cringe that some yes voters hold this belief.

[hibbydog]

Oh me, oh my.....:greengrin:

Stop worrying and start thinking. That includes thinking hard about whether either sides claims are realistic, and which one you would trust.

Come on, make a decision, and stop dithering about.

Och...

Can't choose who I trust or believe because it's all claims, counter claims, assertions, selective quoting of whatever statistics suit either side. Zero solid facts.

All I've got to base my decision on is a row.

If you saw two drunk men shouting at each other in a pub, you'd decide not to get involved and walk away thinking that they're both phannies.

It's the same here.

[CropleyWasGod]

To vote yes is to be TRULY Scottish
Behave yourself Nigel

[hibbydog]

To vote yes is to be TRULY Scottish

Re arrange these two words: p!sh. Utter.

[Leith Green]

Latest opinium/observer poll due out at 8pm tonight.

Wonder how that might compare to the last few? Im guessing it'll have Nos at 53 with yes at 47 after removing maybe 11 per cent dont know

[Colonel_HFC]

Property in Scotland is now gonna be worthless? That's a new one, an absolute belter it is too.

Maybe not, but it's quite possible that values will drop and without a stable currency then who can say? The SNP certainly can't. It's a worst case scenario for me (practically at least). I have no confidence in the idea of indenpendence and, if not for some interests left in Scotland, I wouldn't even care and it would actually be funny if it was a disaster - not for the people that didn't want it obviously and couldn't leave. And not even for the people that did want it...

I suppose if it's a yes vote it could potentially be a bit like watching a disaster film where you really care about some of the characters.

[Jamesconnolly]

Nonsense ! So if you vote NO you can't be a proud Scot ?

Of course you can't be a true scot if you vote no.how could you be ??

[MyJo]

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

Tell you what, I'll give you £1000 for your flat on Friday if it's a yes vote then?

Save you having to hang onto something that's worthless in a country you don't give a s**t about.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe not, but it's quite possible that values will drop and without a stable currency then who can say? The SNP certainly can't. It's a worst case scenario for me (practically at least). I have no confidence in the idea of indenpendence and, if not for some interests left in Scotland, I wouldn't even care and it would actually be funny if it was a disaster - not for the people that didn't want it obviously and couldn't leave. And not even for the people that did want it...

I suppose if it's a yes vote it could potentially be a bit like watching a disaster film where you really care about some of the characters.
How is it any more possible that values will drop than they will rise? There will continue to be the same market, for rentals and for buying, that there is at the moment. Those will remain constant no matter what Government we have.

[CropleyWasGod]

Of course you can't be a true scot if you vote no.how could you be ??
You're just being silly.

[Colonel_HFC]

Of course you can't be a true scot if you vote no.how could you be ??

Your view is only valid if being a true Scot means being clinically ******ed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Your view is only valid if being a true Scot means being clinically ******ed.
And that's just as silly

[Colonel_HFC]

And that's just as silly

Well at least you're consistent.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well at least you're consistent.
Thank you

Back to my question about property?

[#FromTheCapital]

Of course you can't be a true scot if you vote no.how could you be ??

Extremely ignorant and narrow minded. Is this the reason you're voting yes? So you can feel like a 'true scot'?

[Jamesconnolly]

Tell you what, I'll give you £1000 for your flat on Friday if it's a yes vote then?

Save you having to hang onto something that's worthless in a country you don't give a s**t about.

Pure class mate .I will also pay £1000 per house from any of you no votes plus a free taxi to Berwick

[stoneyburn hibs]

Tell you what, I'll give you £1000 for your flat on Friday if it's a yes vote then?

Save you having to hang onto something that's worthless in a country you don't give a s**t about.

I will raise your bid of 1k to 2000 smackeroonies :greengrin

[CapitalGreen]

Maybe not, but it's quite possible that values will drop and without a stable currency then who can say? The SNP certainly can't. It's a worst case scenario for me (practically at least). I have no confidence in the idea of indenpendence and, if not for some interests left in Scotland, I wouldn't even care and it would actually be funny if it was a disaster - not for the people that didn't want it obviously and couldn't leave. And not even for the people that did want it...

I suppose if it's a yes vote it could potentially be a bit like watching a disaster film where you really care about some of the characters.

Who can say they won't increase. SNP want to increase net migration to expand the workforce, that's a lot of new people looking to buy flats in Scotland.

For those living in desperate poverty I imagine their current reality is like living a disaster film where they are some of the characters.

[BarneyK]

I will raise your bid of 1k to 2000 smackeroonies :greengrin

:greengrin

[Colonel_HFC]

Thank you

Back to my question about property?

What currency will be used? There has NEVER been an answer that isn't speculation or just complete bull...

There are a number of people and businesses that do not want to stay in the event of independence that CAN leave. If the place is less desirable for people an businesses then property prices could fall.

What I do know is that property vales will not fall or rise in a way that is not relative to the rest of the UK / EU / world in the case of a no vote. Independence just adds a number of unnecessary variables and I don't see any of them as positive.

And what will a property valued in GBP be worth in an imaginary currency. There is no good answer from the nationalists. Continued use of GBP is utter nonsense. What then? They talk utter rubbish about the Euro too.

[CropleyWasGod]

What currency will be used? There had NEVER been an answer that isn't speculation or just complete bull...

There are a number of people and businesses that do not want to stay in the event of independence that CAN leave. If the place is less desirable for people an businesses then property prices could fall.

What I do know is that property vales will not fall or rise in a way that is not relative to the rest of the UK / EU / world in the case of a no vote. Independence just adds a number I unnecessary variables and I don't see any of them as positive.

And what will a property valued in GBP be worth in an imaginary currency. There is no good answer from the nationalists. Continued use of GBP is utter nonsense. What then? They talk utter rubbish about the Euro too.
You avoided my question :)

How likely is your scenario to an alternative one where, attracted by rhe lower CT rates, companies move in and thereby push demand up?

I'd say neither is any.more likely than the other.

[CropleyWasGod]

Pure class mate .I will also pay £1000 per house from any of you no votes plus a free taxi to Berwick
Can you go to Berwick with them please?

[MyJo]

I will raise your bid of 1k to 2000 smackeroonies :greengrin

Fine, 2500 nectar points, a packet of hubba bubba and my favourite pen. Final offer :greengrin

[bawheid]

What currency will be used?

The pound. Hope this helps.

[Colonel_HFC]

Tell you what, I'll give you £1000 for your flat on Friday if it's a yes vote then?

Save you having to hang onto something that's worthless in a country you don't give a s**t about.

Can't. It's currently rented. Maybe later but if you can pay the mortgage (I wonder what the interest rates will be like???) off too I'll take 1000 pounds anytime. One less thing to give a s**t about in the place. Sounds good to me. I'd gladly ditch it for no profit. Unfortunately your 1000 pounds won't really help my family and friends that remain there.

[Jack]

It's pretty worrying for a lot of people in Scotland that have worked hard and lived well only to have the risk of things being destroyed by a small minded nationalist movement backed up by ifs buts and maybes.

Fortunately for me I live overseas and will not be affected too much, other than my flat in Scotland potentially becoming worthless because SNP dollars (or whatever fictitious currency they want to claim to be able to use next) will not be of any value elsewhere. So I may lose a flat that is currently rented. I wouldn't even mind that so much because it could be worth it just to see the place fall to pieces - it would maybe show other places in the world that nationalism is stupid and worthless.

Sadly I still have family and friends in Scotland that may have to suffer the consequences directly. If I was there I'd vote no. And if a yes vote happened I'd be leaving anyway. But I'm fortunate that way - it's not a viable option for a lot of people.

To be honest I didn't think some of the daft posts on this thread could be surpassed.

That is an absolute belter.

Wow! Just wow!!

I'm sure you've given supporters of both sides a really good laugh.

Let us know how you get on with the Darwin Awards later this year.

[Colonel_HFC]

To be honest I didn't think some of the daft posts on this thread could be surpassed.

That is an absolute belter.

Wow! Just wow!!

I'm sure you've given supporters of both sides a really good laugh.

Let us know how you get on with the Darwin Awards later this year.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter. Other than the few things I've mentioned it's really not my problem. It might be like a slightly disturbing film if it goes bad but, living overseas, I can always change the channel.

[Colonel_HFC]

The pound. Hope this helps.

Yeah good luck with that...

[bawheid]

Yeah good luck with that...

Luck won't be needed. A currency union will be the first thing to be agreed post-yes, because it doesn't make any sense for either side not to have one.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Fine, 2500 nectar points, a packet of hubba bubba and my favourite pen. Final offer :greengrin

Ach you win, how am I to better that offer? Maybe we put the offers as one and be better together ?

I'll get my coat.

[Colonel_HFC]

Luck won't be needed. A currency union will be the first thing to be agreed post-yes, because it doesn't make any sense for either side not to have one.

I think the UK government would beg to differ on that one. But they won't have to beg - they will just decide and that will be the end of the discussion. Scotland will not have any control whatsoever. Just like we have no control over USD, NOK or any other currency that belongs to another country...

[bawheid]

I think the UK government would beg to differ on that one. But they won't have to beg - they will just decide and that will be the end of the discussion. Scotland will not have any control whatsoever. Just like we have no control over USD, NOK or any other currency that belongs to another country...

It doesn't belong to another country though. It belongs to Scotland just as much as the rest of the UK and will be negotiated on like everything else.

First day of negotiation:

Let's agree a currency union.

No.

Ok then, if you could pick up your nuclear weapons by next Tuesday that'd be appreciated.

[Colonel_HFC]

It doesn't belong to another country though. It belongs to Scotland just as much as the rest of the UK and will be negotiated on like everything else.

First day of negotiation:

Let's agree a currency union.

No.

Ok then, if you could pick up your nuclear weapons by next Tuesday that'd be appreciated.

Horse manure!

[bawheid]

Horse manure!

Ok then.

[Colonel_HFC]

Ok then.

Good point well made. Whatever, bury your head in the sand. I hope for the sake of you and everyone else living in Scotland it's a No vote, even although you will be initially upset and bitter - no change there then.

But if it's a Yes vote it'll be your problem to deal with...

[bawheid]

Good point well made. Whatever, bury your head in the sand. I hope for the sake of you and everyone else living in Scotland it's a No vote, even although you will be initially upset and bitter - no change there then.

But if it's a Yes vote it'll be your problem to deal with...

You've yet to answer my previous point, other than shouting "Horse Manure!"

Upset and bitter? You know nothing about me.

Your intervention late on in this thread is a bit like the three amigos (plus Farage) scrambling up to Scotland at the last minute because they realise it's not going their way.

You've already said it doesn't affect you so you don't really care. Lots of people in Scotland do though, and more than half of them will vote to put this country's future in our own hands.

[CmoantheHibs]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4166374]Good point well made. Whatever, bury your head in the sand. I hope for the sake of you and everyone else living in Scotland it's a No vote, even although you will be initially upset and bitter - no change there then.

But if it's a Yes vote it'll be your problem to deal with...[/QUOTE

Do you live in Scotland?

[Colonel_HFC]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4166374]Good point well made. Whatever, bury your head in the sand. I hope for the sake of you and everyone else living in Scotland it's a No vote, even although you will be initially upset and bitter - no change there then.

But if it's a Yes vote it'll be your problem to deal with...[/QUOTE

Do you live in Scotland?

No. I said I lived overseas.

[CmoantheHibs]

[QUOTE=CmoantheHibs;4166391]

No. I said I lived overseas.

Sorry its a pretty big thread and I havent read through it.So what is your interest in the independence issue?Are you Scottish?

[Colonel_HFC]

You've yet to answer my previous point, other than shouting "Horse Manure!"

Upset and bitter? You know nothing about me.

Your intervention late on in this thread is a bit like the three amigos (plus Farage) scrambling up to Scotland at the last minute because they realise it's not going their way.

You've already said it doesn't affect you so you don't really care. Lots of people in Scotland do though, and more than half of them will vote to put this country's future in our own hands.

My intervention... In what way is posting on a forum intervening? I don't expect to change anyone's mind. If people want to make stupid choices it's their own problem. I've made a few in my life but nothing too serious. But they've mostly only really affected me or sometimes those that I am close to.

I just think it's unfortunate that such a significant number of people are being so stupid when it comes to this specific subject.

[bawheid]

I just think it's unfortunate that such a significant number of people are being so stupid when it comes to this specific subject.

So anyone with a different opinion from yours is stupid?

[Colonel_HFC]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4166396]

Sorry its a pretty big thread and I havent read through it.So what is your interest in the independence issue?Are you Scottish?

That's where I was born and where I spend 80% of my life. And I have family and friends that live there, none of whom are happy about the idea of independence and the effect that it may have on their lives. It won't affect me very much really. I just don't think it's a good idea and I think Salmond is an awful person - a sociopath actually - interested in his own prestige and not much more. But that's just my opinion. And I don't see how my expression of my opinion can be seen as intervening. I can't even intervene - I'm not entitled to vote on the issue.

[Moulin Yarns]

It was announced that the shop workers union USDAW have come out in favour of a No vote,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29108298

it is just a pity they didn't ask their members first.


This is the result of a debate, with one Yes and No reprentative at IKEA Glasgow.

A great debate followed, passionate but respectful.
At the end we agreed to have an open vote on Yes, No and Don't Know, as an indication of Usdaw members' views after a long, healthy, two-sided debate.
The result was 87.5% for Yes, 12.5% Don't Know and Zero for No.
Some of the undecided said they now lean towards voting Yes. Several of those who voted Yes on the night had arrived at the meeting as No voters. One woman who had been a No, and voted Don't Know after the debate, told the meeting, "I've had more straight answers and common sense from Richie tonight than I've heard from anywhere for the last two years. You might get me to vote Yes yet!"

[Colonel_HFC]

So anyone with a different opinion from yours is stupid?

No. You don't have to be stupid to make stupid decisions.

[bawheid]

No. You don't have to be stupid to make stupid decisions.

So people that vote yes are just being stupid? Anything else to add?

[Colonel_HFC]

So people that vote yes are just being stupid? Anything else to add?

Nope.

[Moulin Yarns]

The No Campaign recently sent out a communication advising that Supermarkets would put up their prices by 16% in an independent Scotland. However, it is a very simple process to ask them the truth. All power to Morrison's for their honest answer.
First Up – TESCO
FAO:
Tesco Customer Services
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that tesco intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their response:
Thanks for your email today.
I am very sorry you are getting misinforming leaflets through your door.
I can confirm that Tesco will not increase their prices by 16% if Scotland leaves the UK.
We’ve got a great business in Scotland and our job is to create the best offer for customers whatever the outcome of the referendum.
Hope this clears the confusion up!
Next Up – Asda
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Asda intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding information you have received regarding a possible price increase within our stores pending the outcome of Scottish Independence.
I can advise you that, as an Everyday Low Cost Company we would always strive to keep our prices as low as possible for the customer. We are unaware of any plans to implement this increase as stated in the leaflet you received.
Next Up Morrisons
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Morrisons intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
(which was brutally honest and made us giggle – Although we suspect the member of staff may get into hot water for this response):
Thank you for contacting us regarding the leaflet you received. We have received similar enquiries regarding this particular correspondence from one of the campaigns in the Scottish Referendum.
As a company Morrisons have a thriving and loyal customer base and we work hard to try and keep those customers satisfied. We base our pricing on the retail MARKET and not on political decisions. We strive to offer customers in Scotland the best service we can.
As far as we are aware the increased cost in Ireland is due to a number of factors, the major one being the higher cost of distribution. Morrisons currently have in place a full distribution network within the current UK which would remain in place in the event of a Yes Vote. The only way we could envisage an increased cost for Scotland is if the Scottish Government were to push Scotland’s land mass away from the rest of the UK and into the North Sea.
Finally, we spoke with Sainsbury’s
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Sainsbury’s intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
We are unaware of any plans to implement a price increase should Scotland choose to become Independent.
We thought we would stop at this point to save further embarrassment for the No Campaign. But the message is clear. Supermarkets would not unduly penalise the Scottish populous because of political decisions.
Nice try Better Together! You got it wrong ..... AGAIN!

[Peevemor]

http://nationalcollective.com/2014/09/13/better-together-final-week-plans-leaked/

[Colonel_HFC]

To all Yes voters: If it is a Yes vote and it all goes to s**t and the country is a disaster, don't try and blame it on anyone else (UK being unfair, conspiracy etc.). It will be nobody's fault but yours. Do you accept this? Yes or No?

[CmoantheHibs]

[QUOTE=CmoantheHibs;4166405]

That's where I was born and where I spend 80% of my life. And I have family and friends that live there, none of whom are happy about the idea of independence and the effect that it may have on their lives. It won't affect me very much really. I just don't think it's a good idea and I think Salmond is an awful person - a sociopath actually - interested in his own prestige and not much more. But that's just my opinion. And I don't see how my expression of my opinion can be seen as intervening. I can't even intervene - I'm not entitled to vote on the issue.

I never mentioned you intervening.I think it was Bawheid that did and I think he was referring to intervening in the thread not the actual vote.Some of your posts I have read do come over in a pretty condescending manner imo so you shouldnt really be surprised that people react in a negative way.

[Moulin Yarns]

To all Yes voters: If it is a Yes vote and it all goes to s**t and the country is a disaster, don't try and blame it on anyone else (UK being unfair, conspiracy etc.). It will be nobody's fault but yours. Do you accept this? Yes or No?


“Independence won’t be utopia or disaster as some have attempted to claim; it will be what we make of it, and it’s too good an opportunity to miss.”

After a Yes vote and the UK deficit rises above the Scottish deficit after refusing a currency union, will you blame Alex Salmond or the three Westminster leaders?

[bawheid]

To all Yes voters: If it is a Yes vote and it all goes to s**t and the country is a disaster, don't try and blame it on anyone else (UK being unfair, conspiracy etc.). It will be nobody's fault but yours. Do you accept this? Yes or No?

Yes absolutely. That's what it's about for me. The chance to govern ourselves. We're a country - we should make our own decisions like every other country in the world.

We'll be accountable to ourselves, for better or worse.

[Colonel_HFC]

Yes absolutely. That's what it's about for me. The chance to govern ourselves. We're a country - we should make our own decisions like every other country in the world.

We'll be accountable to ourselves, for better or worse.

Fair enough. That's all anyone can ask for - accountability. The rest is democracy and if it's what the majority want then so be it. That doesn't mean that the majority always make the right decision.

Unfortunately, people that make the wrong decisions are often quick to blame others rather than being accountable for the decisions. Whatever happens, I'd really rather not see that.

[Colonel_HFC]

“Independence won’t be utopia or disaster as some have attempted to claim; it will be what we make of it, and it’s too good an opportunity to miss.”

After a Yes vote and the UK deficit rises above the Scottish deficit after refusing a currency union, will you blame Alex Salmond or the three Westminster leaders?

I won't blame anyone. It won't affect me very much. Is that what's going to happen?

[Moulin Yarns]

I won't blame anyone. It won't affect me very much. Is that what's going to happen?


Well, that depends, sam e as your question, nobody knows the answer. It is all supposition.

[Colonel_HFC]

Well, that depends, sam e as your question, nobody knows the answer. It is all supposition.

"After a Yes vote and the UK deficit rises above the Scottish deficit after refusing a currency union, will you blame Alex Salmond or the three Westminster leaders?"

To read that, you'd think you DID know the answer.

[steakbake]

Conservative MP on BBC, Christopher Chopr effectively writes off Brown's timetable for more powers and pointing out that the timetable is totally unrealistic. The only way for it to happen would be to have the question on the ballot paper.

If it's a No, will No voters accept that they've been conned?

[Colonel_HFC]

Conservative MP on BBC, Christopher Chopr effectively writes off Brown's timetable for more powers and pointing out that the timetable is totally unrealistic. The only way for it to happen would be to have the question on the ballot paper.

If it's a No, will No voters accept that they've been conned?

I don't have any interest in more powers anyway so I wouldn't care. I can't speak for the No voters - I am not one since I am not eligible to vote because I live overseas.

[bawheid]

Conservative MP on BBC, Christopher Chopr effectively writes off Brown's timetable for more powers and pointing out that the timetable is totally unrealistic. The only way for it to happen would be to have the question on the ballot paper.

If it's a No, will No voters accept that they've been conned?

The offer of more powers was the main headline news on every channel. I wonder if this story will be?

[Leith Green]

There will be some mess up here if their promise of more power comes to nothing in the event of a No vote. Problem is we will be powerless to do anything about it, it'll be too late when the votes have been cast

[steakbake]

The offer of more powers was the main headline news on every channel. I wonder if this story will be?

I suspect not. Apparently 1.8mil people turned out in Barcelona today to match for Catalan independence. I suspect we'll just have to rely on overseas media for more details...

[steakbake]

There will be some mess up here if their promise of more power comes to nothing in the event of a No vote. Problem is we will be powerless to do anything about it, it'll be too late when the votes have been cast

I suspect the parties involved in the sell out would be kicked in 2015 and then again in 2016. No also have a job on their hands to win and deliver something. Yes only has to be voted through once any time the question comes up.

[stoneyburn hibs]

The No Campaign recently sent out a communication advising that Supermarkets would put up their prices by 16% in an independent Scotland. However, it is a very simple process to ask them the truth. All power to Morrison's for their honest answer.
First Up – TESCO
FAO:
Tesco Customer Services
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that tesco intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their response:
Thanks for your email today.
I am very sorry you are getting misinforming leaflets through your door.
I can confirm that Tesco will not increase their prices by 16% if Scotland leaves the UK.
We’ve got a great business in Scotland and our job is to create the best offer for customers whatever the outcome of the referendum.
Hope this clears the confusion up!
Next Up – Asda
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Asda intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding information you have received regarding a possible price increase within our stores pending the outcome of Scottish Independence.
I can advise you that, as an Everyday Low Cost Company we would always strive to keep our prices as low as possible for the customer. We are unaware of any plans to implement this increase as stated in the leaflet you received.
Next Up Morrisons
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Morrisons intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
(which was brutally honest and made us giggle – Although we suspect the member of staff may get into hot water for this response):
Thank you for contacting us regarding the leaflet you received. We have received similar enquiries regarding this particular correspondence from one of the campaigns in the Scottish Referendum.
As a company Morrisons have a thriving and loyal customer base and we work hard to try and keep those customers satisfied. We base our pricing on the retail MARKET and not on political decisions. We strive to offer customers in Scotland the best service we can.
As far as we are aware the increased cost in Ireland is due to a number of factors, the major one being the higher cost of distribution. Morrisons currently have in place a full distribution network within the current UK which would remain in place in the event of a Yes Vote. The only way we could envisage an increased cost for Scotland is if the Scottish Government were to push Scotland’s land mass away from the rest of the UK and into the North Sea.
Finally, we spoke with Sainsbury’s
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Sainsbury’s intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
We are unaware of any plans to implement a price increase should Scotland choose to become Independent.
We thought we would stop at this point to save further embarrassment for the No Campaign. But the message is clear. Supermarkets would not unduly penalise the Scottish populous because of political decisions.
Nice try Better Together! You got it wrong ..... AGAIN!


Where did you get that mate ?

It should be put on every social media platform.

[CropleyWasGod]

To all Yes voters: If it is a Yes vote and it all goes to s**t and the country is a disaster, don't try and blame it on anyone else (UK being unfair, conspiracy etc.). It will be nobody's fault but yours. Do you accept this? Yes or No?
Absolutely

[Jamesconnolly]

Extremely ignorant and narrow minded. Is this the reason you're voting yes? So you can feel like a 'true scot'?

Narrow minded .its simple vote yes you are Scottish vote no and you are English! Have you not watched brave heart?:na na:

[Hibrandenburg]

Ultimately it doesn't really matter. Other than the few things I've mentioned it's really not my problem. It might be like a slightly disturbing film if it goes bad but, living overseas, I can always change the channel.

Can you send a PM to whisky Hibby and point this out to him, maybe then he'll understand why holding a UK passport shouldn't be the sole reason to get the vote.

[CropleyWasGod]

Narrow minded .its simple vote yes you are Scottish vote no and you are English! Have you not watched brave heart?:na na:
Come independence, you'll be the first one to get deported ;)

[Jamesconnolly]

Come independence, you'll be the first one to get deported ;)

I don't understand why would Scottish person vote no if they vote no they are just Westminster lackies :top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't understand why would Scottish person vote no if they vote no they are just Westminster lackies :top marks
You might understand when you're on the first train out of here ;)

[Moulin Yarns]

Where did you get that mate ?

It should be put on every social media platform.


I got it from FB. But, I think it needs to go to the BBC

[Hibrandenburg]

Sky news reporting today's Orange Marches a show of "Great British Patriotism".

I'm out.

[Moulin Yarns]

I got it from FB. But, I think it needs to go to the BBC

Just emailed to the bnc oh dear meant to say BBC

[Albion Hibs]

Subsidised to allow us to further develop the technology, making it cheaper and more efficient. Being subsidised doesn't mean it is loss making, it just means it is not the most efficient method. The subsidy is to offset the shortfall caused by the inefficiency.

The planet is moving towards renewables, I want Scotland to be at the forefront of that movement, not playing catch up.

Not too sure how the above works. I don't disagree about renewable energy, unfortunately the current government is not pushing it as much in certain sectors. However for something to be developed to replace the lynchpin of the white paper / scottish economy is not optimistic, is is simply not realistic.

[Albion Hibs]

Global economics dictate that the oil will be exploited, green principles or not. Scotland has the potential in both research capacity and geography/resources to be at the forefront in renewable energies. We all know Westminster's track record when it comes to supporting Scottish industry, yet you can't see how an independent Scotland, aided in the 'short' term by oil revenue, is the best way forward?


Again, in, it is all project wishful thinking stuff for me.

To be fair oil being described as short term revenue is a big admission from the yes side! It is however quite a void to fill with something that is an unproven working in progress.

[#FromTheCapital]

Come independence, you'll be the first one to get deported ;)

One can only hope CWG.
Maybe he'll get deported to Australia where he might get to meet Braveheart :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

Tim Johns ‏@timoncheese (https://twitter.com/timoncheese) 1m (https://twitter.com/timoncheese/status/510861990185947136) This Sunday Telegraph article seems to suggest a new ICM poll shows 8% lead for YES. Unconfirmed though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11092495/Whatever-happens-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same-again.html … (http://t.co/ZhxP8szV5Y) #indyref (https://twitter.com/hashtag/indyref?src=hash)

[CropleyWasGod]

Not too sure how the above works. I don't disagree about renewable energy, unfortunately the current government is not pushing it as much in certain sectors. However for something to be developed to replace the lynchpin of the white paper / scottish economy is not optimistic, is is simply not realistic.

Why not?

Denmark was the European leader in renewable technology for many years. Not only did it generate its own needs, it exported energy and, most lucratively, the technology. It then lurched to the right, politically, and the new Government abandoned much of that.

Scotland is a much larger country and has the potential to surpass Denmark's experience.

It's a huge challenge, of course, for whatever Government we elect. However, my view is that a Scottish Government would be more proactive than a UK one.

[Leith Green]

Sky news reporting today's Orange Marches a show of "Great British Patriotism".

I'm out.

Shows the union for what it is, forceful and well past its sell by date, bunch of erseholes, funny to read part of one of the balloons speech earlier..

[Albion Hibs]

How is it any more possible that values will drop than they will rise? There will continue to be the same market, for rentals and for buying, that there is at the moment. Those will remain constant no matter what Government we have.

you are having one. There is no chance the market will remain the same, and has there been one signal that it will get better? I could give you a few that say it won't.

Furthermore the current government is currently unable to support help to buy, choosing to extend it only until 2017 rather than 2020. I will take any bet that you want that when the RoS stats for the quarter leading to the vote come out there is a drop in price and total sales, up for it?

[Albion Hibs]

The No Campaign recently sent out a communication advising that Supermarkets would put up their prices by 16% in an independent Scotland. However, it is a very simple process to ask them the truth. All power to Morrison's for their honest answer.
First Up – TESCO
FAO:
Tesco Customer Services
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that tesco intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their response:
Thanks for your email today.
I am very sorry you are getting misinforming leaflets through your door.
I can confirm that Tesco will not increase their prices by 16% if Scotland leaves the UK.
We’ve got a great business in Scotland and our job is to create the best offer for customers whatever the outcome of the referendum.
Hope this clears the confusion up!
Next Up – Asda
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Asda intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding information you have received regarding a possible price increase within our stores pending the outcome of Scottish Independence.
I can advise you that, as an Everyday Low Cost Company we would always strive to keep our prices as low as possible for the customer. We are unaware of any plans to implement this increase as stated in the leaflet you received.
Next Up Morrisons
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Morrisons intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
(which was brutally honest and made us giggle – Although we suspect the member of staff may get into hot water for this response):
Thank you for contacting us regarding the leaflet you received. We have received similar enquiries regarding this particular correspondence from one of the campaigns in the Scottish Referendum.
As a company Morrisons have a thriving and loyal customer base and we work hard to try and keep those customers satisfied. We base our pricing on the retail MARKET and not on political decisions. We strive to offer customers in Scotland the best service we can.
As far as we are aware the increased cost in Ireland is due to a number of factors, the major one being the higher cost of distribution. Morrisons currently have in place a full distribution network within the current UK which would remain in place in the event of a Yes Vote. The only way we could envisage an increased cost for Scotland is if the Scottish Government were to push Scotland’s land mass away from the rest of the UK and into the North Sea.
Finally, we spoke with Sainsbury’s
To whom it may concern;
I received a communication recently which said that Sainsbury’s intends to increase its prices by 16% in the event that Scotland decides to vote for independence.
Can you please confirm by email if this is, or isn’t the case/truth.
Their Response
We are unaware of any plans to implement a price increase should Scotland choose to become Independent.
We thought we would stop at this point to save further embarrassment for the No Campaign. But the message is clear. Supermarkets would not unduly penalise the Scottish populous because of political decisions.
Nice try Better Together! You got it wrong ..... AGAIN!



Wow who would have thought that the two supermarkets that's share price has pretty much halved in a year have not come out in front of investors and given them another reason sell or be concerned...for the avoidance of doubt that is both morrisons and tesco...and to be fair I have no issue or surprise at the statements they have made, I understand entirely why they have done so.

[Albion Hibs]

To all Yes voters: If it is a Yes vote and it all goes to s**t and the country is a disaster, don't try and blame it on anyone else (UK being unfair, conspiracy etc.). It will be nobody's fault but yours. Do you accept this? Yes or No?


Of course they won't, more importantly neither will eck salmond. The first response will be I blame it on Westminster..the bigger boys did not let us...it's all there fault.

[CropleyWasGod]

you are having one. There is no chance the market will remain the same, and has there been one signal that it will get better? I could give you a few that say it won't.

Furthermore the current government is currently unable to support help to buy, choosing to extend it only until 2017 rather than 2020. I will take any bet that you want that when the RoS stats for the quarter leading to the vote come out there is a drop in price and total sales, up for it?

I am having one what?

The poster I was arguing with took the view that property prices would drop dramatically in an iS. I asked him why that would be the case, to which he said that demand would disappear. I predicated the idea that, prompted by lower CT rates, demand might actually increase.

You're talking about short-term dips because of the referendum. He and I were talking about the longer term.

I am not a betting person :)

[CropleyWasGod]

Of course they won't, more importantly neither will eck salmond. The first response will be I blame it on Westminster..the bigger boys did not let us...it's all there fault.

I did.

[Peevemor]

Again, in, it is all project wishful thinking stuff for me.

To be fair oil being described as short term revenue is a big admission from the yes side! It is however quite a void to fill with something that is an unproven working in progress.

A few decades should be considered short term when planning the way ahead of a nation. If you want short-termism you only have to look at the decimation of Scottish industry carried out from London 30 odd years ago.

[Peevemor]

Wow who would have thought that the two supermarkets that's share price has pretty much halved in a year have not come out in front of investors and given them another reason sell or be concerned...for the avoidance of doubt that is both morrisons and tesco...and to be fair I have no issue or surprise at the statements they have made, I understand entirely why they have done so.

Because they're true?

[stoneyburn hibs]

I got it from FB. But, I think it needs to go to the BBC

Somehow I can't see it being on there news programme. I am a cynic :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

Tim Johns ‏@timoncheese (https://twitter.com/timoncheese) 1m (https://twitter.com/timoncheese/status/510861990185947136) This Sunday Telegraph article seems to suggest a new ICM poll shows 8% lead for YES. Unconfirmed though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11092495/Whatever-happens-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same-again.html … (http://t.co/ZhxP8szV5Y) #indyref (https://twitter.com/hashtag/indyref?src=hash)

Never done this before but......:hyper:

[blaikie]

Tim Johns ‏@timoncheese (https://twitter.com/timoncheese) 1m (https://twitter.com/timoncheese/status/510861990185947136) This Sunday Telegraph article seems to suggest a new ICM poll shows 8% lead for YES. Unconfirmed though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11092495/Whatever-happens-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same-again.html … (http://t.co/ZhxP8szV5Y) #indyref (https://twitter.com/hashtag/indyref?src=hash)

Seem to be an ICM online poll :)

[SteveHFC]

Never done this before but......:hyper:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzOQVNJMEU

[Leith Green]

Opinium/observer has it 53no 47yes just released

ICM has it yes leading by 8 but with slightly smaller sample size

Survation has No leading by 8, but this poll was done for better together, so make of that what you will

Poll yesterday had it 51 to 49 in favour of No

[CropleyWasGod]

Opinium 53:47 No.

Next up tonight is Panelbase.

[Leith Green]

The company who carried out the poll that had Yes leading by 8 tonight, are the same who had the 49/51 in favour of No yesterday

The one yesterday was telephone polls for the Guardian
The one released tonight was online poll and for the Sunday Telegraph

[Leith Green]

Opinium 53:47 No.

Next up tonight is Panelbase.

Are panalbase releasing one tonight?

[The Harp Awakes]

I think all you can take from the opinion polls is that the outcome is going to be close. Too many variables at play; which way will undecided voters go; will Labour voters continue to go to yes; what effect will an unusually high turnout have.

I genuinely don't know which way this is going to go.

[adhibs]

Are panalbase releasing one tonight?

At 21.30

[Leith Green]

At 21.30

Where did you see that mate?

[Phil D. Rolls]

My intervention... In what way is posting on a forum intervening? I don't expect to change anyone's mind. If people want to make stupid choices it's their own problem. I've made a few in my life but nothing too serious. But they've mostly only really affected me or sometimes those that I am close to.

I just think it's unfortunate that such a significant number of people are being so stupid when it comes to this specific subject.

Too stupid to run our own country? It's not been a winning formula up till now, maybe we'll get the message on time - who knows. I'll sell my vote for a tea cake and a balloon on a stick if anyone's offering.

[SkintHibby]

Whenever the Tories are in power, we are ruled by a government we didn't vote for. That's roughly 50% of the time. 1 Tory MP in Scotland presently so not even marginal. If you take the Scottish vote out of every election since the War, the result would have been the same. We do not have a say in our future currently and are ruled by London and the south east of England. That is the biggest argument for Independence IMO. Scottish issues should be governed by Scotland to benefit Scotland. Yes we will make mistakes but will they be as costly as the mistakes made in Westminster? I'll gladly take that chance.

Incidentally, in an independent Scotland, Labour would dominate and probably have a near monopoly on government. That's probably the biggest argument against independence.

Not strictly true.

In a democracy, if you make an arse of being in power then someone else is always willing to take your place.

Imagine this though.......Scots would always get governments voted by S-C-O-T-S. What a concept eh!

[adhibs]

Where did you see that mate?

Couple people on twitter saying its due for release then

[Leith Green]

Im starting to think these polls are a farce

[steakbake]

The polls are a farce. You can't read anything into the numbers other than it's very close. As to which side is out on top, who knows. One thing is sure: BT did not expect it to be as close as it is. Some of them are very nervous. Spoke to a political animal today who thinks all the polls will get it wrong by about 5%. 4.3 million have registered. So many more than at any other time. Why all the new registrations? Who are they and what way are they leaning?

Let's make history happen.

[steakbake]

couple of other bets: some polling stations will close at 10pm with people on the doorstep.

[OsloHibs]

What exactly are the 'extra powers' for Scotland that were suddenly offered last week? I've tried to google the answers and can't find them.. Anyone got a link to exactly WHAT they are?

[Leith Green]

The polls are a farce. You can't read anything into the numbers other than it's very close. As to which side is out on top, who knows. One thing is sure: BT did not expect it to be as close as it is. Some of them are very nervous. Spoke to a political animal today who thinks all the polls will get it wrong by about 5%. 4.3 million have registered. So many more than at any other time. Why all the new registrations? Who are they and what way are they leaning?

Let's make history happen.


I know, but how can one lot have it 8 points in favour of No and a different lot have it in Yes favour by the same margin?? Something just doesn't stack up.. Can these things be rigged to favour one or the other?

[CropleyWasGod]

What exactly are the 'extra powers' for Scotland that were suddenly offered last week? I've tried to google the answers and can't find them.. Anyone got a link to exactly WHAT they are?

I would read the Emperor's New Clothes :)

Whatever they "are", William Hague told the UK Parliament that they weren't UK Government policy.

Does that clear things up? :rolleyes:

[Peevemor]

I know, but how can one lot have it 8 points in favour of No and a different lot have it in Yes favour by the same margin?? Something just doesn't stack up.. Can these things be rigged to favour one or the other?

Just seen this on Pussbook


POLL STAT UPDATE!
13 September 2014 at 14:55 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/brian-ross/poll-stat-update/1014319541929738)
** All polls conducted on the ground, not through landline calls to a particular area **
Subject: Polls Update - Aug / Sept 2014.


Giffnock - (Fri Sept 12th) - 23.628 polled - 76% Yes | 24% No.
Mumsnet.com 984 polled - 48% Yes | 41% No | 11% Don't Know.
Sunny Govan Community Radio - 2900 votes - 94.2% Yes | 4.2% No | 1.6% Don't Know.
Coatbridge Museum 5020 votes - 81% Yes | 19% No.

RIC polls (excl' don't knows). National Canvass on 18,012 polled found 63% Yes | 37% No.


Also in mid August, RIC targeted smaller polls (300 - 400 to 1800) in areas which were or still are Labour strongholds. The results were:-

Bonnyrigg - 65% Yes | 35% No. Charleston, Dundee - 73% Yes | 27% No. Clydebank - 60% Yes | 40% No. Easterhouse - 76% Yes | 24% No. Greenock - 65% Yes | 35% No. Hamilton - 73% Yes | 27% No. Kirkcaldy - 70% Yes | 30% No. Seaton in Aberdeen - 71% Yes | 29% No.


Late entry Sept 10th. RIC Poll (including Don't Knows and double checked at the source) Summerhill, Dumfries - 53.7% Yes | 11.6% No | 34.7% Don't Know.

Shetland and Orkney - 82% wish to remain part of Scotland, not UK. (Press & Journal poll of islander voters)


YES vote is surging ahead right across Scotland. Green Party, SNP and Socialist Parties are joined by thousands of Labour Party members and hundreds of thousands of "traditional Labour voters" / hundreds of Lib Dem members and thousands of Lib Dem voters to bring our government home on Thursday. (18/09/14)

*******************ENDS***********************

[CropleyWasGod]

I know, but how can one lot have it 8 points in favour of No and a different lot have it in Yes favour by the same margin?? Something just doesn't stack up.. Can these things be rigged to favour one or the other?

It's because of the sample sizes. They're seldom more than 1000 people, which is IMO far too small to draw a conclusion in something which seems to be so tight.

[adhibs]

Im starting to think these polls are a farce

same. hope were not bombarded with them for the rest of the week

[CropleyWasGod]

same. hope were not bombarded with them for the rest of the week

you'd better turn the electric off then. :greengrin

[Leith Green]

Just seen this on Pussbook

That to me looks a bit like Yes propaganda? Rather than anything else.. Where does it come from??

[adhibs]

yes 49.4% no 50.6%

as much as they do my tits in, been sitting waiting to see the result :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

yes 49.4% no 50.6%

Panelbase?

[adhibs]

Panelbase?

aye. i was expecting the support for yes to take a bit of a denting after this week, doesnt seem like any have been swayed

[CropleyWasGod]

aye. i was expecting the support for yes to take a bit of a denting after this week, doesnt seem like any have been swayed

Got a link? My boy has just asked for the "methodology"... smartass.... so i need to appear to be intelligent. :)

[Leith Green]

So to cap it off. You have 2 saying neck and neck
Another giving No an 8 point lead, but carried out for Better Together. Then another poll giving Yes an 8 point lead. And another giving No 6 point lead...

To be honest I smell a rat with one of the 8 point lead polls

[Leith Green]

yes 49.4% no 50.6%

as much as they do my tits in, been sitting waiting to see the result :greengrin

Its actually addictive, not even had a bet on the football since i got in from Hibs game...

[CropleyWasGod]

So to cap it off. You have 2 saying neck and neck
Another giving No an 8 point lead, but carried out for Better Together. Then another poll giving Yes an 8 point lead. And another giving No 6 point lead...

To be honest I smell a rat with one of the 8 point lead polls

It's not a rat. It just emphasises the shortcomings of the small sample sizes.

You could take 2 samples at ER today. Each 1000 people. Ask them yes or no. One sample could be 60:40 one way. The other 60:40 the other way.

What conclusion could you draw from that?

[Leith Green]

Forgot to add, I bet the news headlines tonight are No campaign 8 points ahead