Scottish Independence

[Hibrandenburg]

If we are not in the EU can we use the Euro? We should just use the pound short to medium term. They can’t stop us it’s as much ours as theirs.

We could use the zloty should we wish to. I'd personally prefer the Euro if we aspire to rejoin the EU and at some point the pound is likely to crash. I like the idea of hopping over the border for some cheap duty free imports :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

We could use the zloty should we wish to. I'd personally prefer the Euro if we aspire to rejoin the EU and at some point the pound is likely to crash. I like the idea of hopping over the border for some cheap duty free imports :wink:

Funny thing is, the minute we decide to leave, the rUK will ask if we want a currency union. If Scotland stops using the pound then it immediately gets weaker.


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[Hibs4185]

Maybe a stupid question, but my mum is adamant that pound sterling is actually scottish. Does anyone know the history?

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe a stupid question, but my mum is adamant that pound sterling is actually scottish. Does anyone know the history?

The founder of the Bank of England was a Scot, which might be what she's thinking of.

[lapsedhibee]

The founder of the Bank of England was a Scot, which might be what she's thinking of.

Or the Dougie Donnelly ad which associated Sterling with Stirling. (No offence, H4185's mum.)

[degenerated]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-has-no-mandate-for-a-second-referendum/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Daisley is losing the plot. Hope the unionists listen to him.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSome self loathing of the highest order there. If the phrase uncle tam was designed for anyone it is Stephen Daisley.

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[degenerated]

The founder of the Bank of England was a Scot, which might be what she's thinking of.The pound was the unit of currency in Scotland pre union, England adopted as part of the union.

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[lapsedhibee]

The pound was the unit of currency in Scotland pre union, England adopted as part of the union.

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When you say 'adopted' do you mean that the English recognised the Scottish pound as equivalent to their own pound?

[Killiehibbie]

The pound was the unit of currency in Scotland pre union, England adopted as part of the union.

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I thought the union was 1707.

[danhibees1875]

I thought the union was 1707.

Yes, and the pound Scots being referred to is different from the pound sterling (England's) that we then adopted. :aok:

[Killiehibbie]

Yes, and the pound Scots being referred to is different from the pound sterling (England's) that we then adopted. :aok:

What happened in 1770 mentioned on that pound note?

[DaveF]

What happened in 1770 mentioned on that pound note?

I suspect it's just a faked image.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is Wiki's version:-

The origins of sterling lie in the reign of*King Offa of Mercia*(757–796), who introduced the*silver penny. It represented the*denarius*of the new currency system of*Charlemagne's*Frankish Empire. As in the Carolingian system, 240 pence weighed one*pound, a unit corresponding to Charlemagne's*livre, with the shilling corresponding to Charlemagne's*solidus*and equal to twelve pence.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not sure if it was John curtice I heard on the radio this morning but it was a discussion about the independence referendum. One thing that stood out to me was that he said that in September 2014 (indyref1) the yes figure was 45% and that despite there being no actual campaigning since then that it is consistently around 50% 7 years later, and he could see that rising once the date of indyref2 is announced and the campaign gets underway, particularly if the details are clear and positively presented.

Any thoughts.

[WeeRussell]

I'm not sure if it was John curtice I heard on the radio this morning but it was a discussion about the independence referendum. One thing that stood out to me was that he said that in September 2014 (indyref1) the yes figure was 45% and that despite there being no actual campaigning since then that it is consistently around 50% 7 years later, and he could see that rising once the date of indyref2 is announced and the campaign gets underway, particularly if the details are clear and positively presented.

Any thoughts.

Makes sense and I like it. Obviously a big battle against the inevitable lying and torying to get a significant rise but it has to be a decent starting point.

[CloudSquall]

Personally I would be against euro adoption and would prefer to follow the route of Sweden and Poland.

I don't think it's wise to lose monetary policy and the powers of an independent central bank especially during an economic crisis when money printers come into play.

[Callum_62]

It's quite mad when you realise it's been 7 years

Probably nearer 10 by the time we have another go at it

Some folk on telly talk like it was just last year we had our say

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[Hibrandenburg]

It's quite mad when you realise it's been 7 years

Probably nearer 10 by the time we have another go at it

Some folk on telly talk like it was just last year we had our say

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More importantly, how much has changed since then?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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[Skol]

I'm not sure if it was John curtice I heard on the radio this morning but it was a discussion about the independence referendum. One thing that stood out to me was that he said that in September 2014 (indyref1) the yes figure was 45% and that despite there being no actual campaigning since then that it is consistently around 50% 7 years later, and he could see that rising once the date of indyref2 is announced and the campaign gets underway, particularly if the details are clear and positively presented.

Any thoughts.

Not sure about the no actual campaigning bit

[The Harp Awakes]

Not sure about the no actual campaigning bit

What campaigning has gone on for independence since 2014? :dunno:

All I can think has happened during the time, is that the tories have continually banged on about no indyref2, once in a generation referendum :blah:

[Bristolhibby]

Maybe a stupid question, but my mum is adamant that pound sterling is actually scottish. Does anyone know the history?

The point I always make is Sterling is pro rata 10% Scottish in all aspects of assets. We own 10% of the Bank of England. Now that is obviously worth something.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure about the no actual campaigning bit

The campaign by Dross and Boris continually saying there will be no referendum?

[Skol]

I think that to claim there was no campaigning by the SNP or Greens is not being totally transparent. The SNP manifesto had a 2nd referendum in it and although Sturgeon says not now, its was a big part of her campaign. Brown and Swinney have both been pretty clear on this recently as well.

I agree the tories made more of this as well, but it was definitely part of the campaign and Nicola is telling us she will in due course seek a referendum

[Moulin Yarns]

I think that to claim there was no campaigning by the SNP or Greens is not being totally transparent. The SNP manifesto had a 2nd referendum in it and although Sturgeon says not now, its was a big part of her campaign. Brown and Swinney have both been pretty clear on this recently as well.

I agree the tories made more of this as well, but it was definitely part of the campaign and Nicola is telling us she will in due course seek a referendum

A commitment to hold a referendum is nothing like campaigning for independence.

A commitment to stop a referendum most certainly is campaigning 😉

[danhibees1875]

I think that to claim there was no campaigning by the SNP or Greens is not being totally transparent. The SNP manifesto had a 2nd referendum in it and although Sturgeon says not now, its was a big part of her campaign. Brown and Swinney have both been pretty clear on this recently as well.

I agree the tories made more of this as well, but it was definitely part of the campaign and Nicola is telling us she will in due course seek a referendum

The SNP managed to play a fairly shrewd game of the election, and it just sort of falls into their hands naturally to do so.

Their presence implies referendum/independence without needing to bang on about it. The Tories in particular fell right into that trap of having to set up their stall as the negative "no to referendum" vote - they kind of had to.

You wouldn't know it from their leaflets or from catching the odd bit of them in the news (can't speak for the more detailed debates that were had) but the Tories did actually have a manifesto. :greengrin

[WeeRussell]

I think that to claim there was no campaigning by the SNP or Greens is not being totally transparent. The SNP manifesto had a 2nd referendum in it and although Sturgeon says not now, its was a big part of her campaign. Brown and Swinney have both been pretty clear on this recently as well.

I agree the tories made more of this as well, but it was definitely part of the campaign and Nicola is telling us she will in due course seek a referendum

I suppose it depends on your definition of a campaign but I don’t think ‘the campaign’ for independence is close to starting yet.

I would concede the same probably applies to the other side.

[cabbageandribs1875]

good to see Joanna Cherry start a phased return to work after her illness

[CloudSquall]

good to see Joanna Cherry start a phased return to work after her illness


When she is back up to speed I really hope she distances herself from the Alba-esque wing of the SNP (I presume they have all left for Alba anyway..) and works together with Sturgeon on indyref2, her knowledge of law and the courts will be a great asset if the referendum request does indeed end up in court.

[cabbageandribs1875]

When she is back up to speed I really hope she distances herself from the Alba-esque wing of the SNP (I presume they have all left for Alba anyway..) and works together with Sturgeon on indyref2, her knowledge of law and the courts will be a great asset if the referendum request does indeed end up in court.



i was pleased she refrained from twittering(whatever it's called)in the days up to the election, though she did say within days of the new Salmond party coming on the scene that she wouldn't be joining them, and hopefully that will continue :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Le Monde

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185368743_1672581942934325_5968316049376293407_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=upgnsLy_av4AX8QVFKV&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=6c2c6a6bad925887d3a6e722517d4bb0&oe=60BF4060

[Ozyhibby]

i was pleased she refrained from twittering(whatever it's called)in the days up to the election, though she did say within days of the new Salmond party coming on the scene that she wouldn't be joining them, and hopefully that will continue :agree:

Seems a bit convenient that she sits out the whole election campaign and is back at work the first Monday afterward. Maybe I’m just cynical. At least all the future leader chat is gone now forever.


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[xyz23jc]

Seems a bit convenient that she sits out the whole election campaign and is back at work the first Monday afterward. Maybe I’m just cynical. At least all the future leader chat is gone now forever.


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Will be quite a forward line, not quite Smith, Johnstone and Reilly... But Sturgeon, Robertson and Cherry will hopefully be as lethal! :agree::wink:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/indigofast/status/1392608830316498953?s=21


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[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/indigofast/status/1392608830316498953?s=21


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Curtice on top form but imagine the utter lack of self respect required to proudly declare that another parliament has authority over your own for holding a democratic referendum like cringing Tory boy did.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Seems a bit convenient that she sits out the whole election campaign and is back at work the first Monday afterward. Maybe I’m just cynical. At least all the future leader chat is gone now forever.


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i've never actually saw any mention of exactly what her health problems were, none of my business of course and her return possibly is convenient i'm just hoping she accepted why she was,well..demoted a bit, i've still to watch her speech from the other day in Westminster

[degenerated]

Douglas Ross showing how much of a bonus his presence in both parliament's will be for the independence cause.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue/status/1392803835446501381?s=19

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[Jones28]

Douglas Ross showing how much of a bonus his presence in both parliament's will be for the independence cause.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue/status/1392803835446501381?s=19

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As much as Ross is a prick Wishart should have kept a lid on it.

[degenerated]

As much as Ross is a prick Wishart should have kept a lid on it.He's lucky Wishart doesn't have my temperament or he would be getting wedgied that hard he'd be picking bits of his union jack y fronts out the crack of his erse for months.

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[JeMeSouviens]

Douglas Ross showing how much of a bonus his presence in both parliament's will be for the independence cause.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue/status/1392803835446501381?s=19

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Wonder how they feel about knifing poor old Jackson Carlaw now?

DRoss' approval rating is -34 and dropping.

[Future17]

As much as Ross is a prick Wishart should have kept a lid on it.

Agreed.

[The Modfather]

Douglas Ross showing how much of a bonus his presence in both parliament's will be for the independence cause.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue/status/1392803835446501381?s=19

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It’s like the “Ross Out” debate brought into the real world 😀

[Smartie]

As much as Ross is a prick Wishart should have kept a lid on it.

If he’d been able to bite his tongue for a minute, he could have torn him to shreds shortly after.

Or smiled, said nothing, and been the bigger man, making Ross look like a twat.

I agree that Wishart didn’t handle that particularly well, but ffs what a clown Ross is.

[Moulin Yarns]

If he’d been able to bite his tongue for a minute, he could have torn him to shreds shortly after.

Or smiled, said nothing, and been the bigger man, making Ross look like a twat.

I agree that Wishart didn’t handle that particularly well, but ffs what a clown Ross is.

It brings to mind a new 3 word slogan


Petty point scoring 😉

[Jones28]

If he’d been able to bite his tongue for a minute, he could have torn him to shreds shortly after.

Or smiled, said nothing, and been the bigger man, making Ross look like a twat.

I agree that Wishart didn’t handle that particularly well, but ffs what a clown Ross is.

He is a total ****, but afraid to say he got the better of Wishart here.

[JeMeSouviens]

He is a total ****, but afraid to say he got the better of Wishart here.

Tbh, I'm not totally sure who "won" a bout that made them both look like ********s? :dunno:

However, PW is a washed up keyboard player doing some backbenching, so it doesn't matter much.

DRoss is the "leader of Unionism". :wink:

[Jones28]

Tbh, I'm not totally sure who "won" a bout that made them both look like ********s? :dunno:

However, PW is a washed up keyboard player doing some backbenching, so it doesn't matter much.

DRoss is the "leader of Unionism". :wink:

I think it’s more the demeanour than what was said, Ross clearly riled him and Wishart should have been wiser to it.

[Hibrandenburg]

Tonight's Question Time was another round of English politicians and reality TV numpties telling us that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to run our own affairs. It's as if these morons are trying to convince English voters why Scotland should remain in the UK rather than the Scottish electorate. This line of rhetoric can only bolster support for independence, crack on dumb****s.

[Mon Dieu4]

Tonight's Question Time was another round of English politicians and reality TV numpties telling us that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to run our own affairs. It's as if these morons are trying to convince English voters why Scotland should remain in the UK rather than the Scottish electorate. This line of rhetoric can only bolster support for independence, crack on dumb****s.

Was the audience that really wound me up tonight, Paul Mason was quite right to point out it's nothing to do with them, I never fully subscribed before that there was too much of a difference between the majority of people in the different nations but it's never been more apparent that we want different things and want to go down a different route

[Glory Lurker]

SNP hold Airdrie and Shotts Westminster seat on increased vote share. Majority down, but turnout way down.

Job done.

[Hibrandenburg]

Some of the right wing forums I like to keep an eye on are now being fed a new line that's gaining momentum amongst the hard of thinking. It seems their wrath is now turning on the 55% who voted against independence because they have failed to protect the UK against Sturgeon. The ducks are being lined up for an attack on the devolved parliaments.

[Crunchie]

As much as Ross is a prick Wishart should have kept a lid on it.
Wishart's behaviour and tone was not appropriate if you ask me, if he can't control his emotions in that kind of environment he's not fit for the job. He's the chair ffs.

[DaveF]

Wishart's behaviour and tone was not appropriate if you ask me, if he can't control his emotions in that kind of environment he's not fit for the job. He's the chair ffs.

For once, I'll agree with you but I would also question Ross's part in it. Why make those comments during a committee session when I imagine that time was designed for official business. You know, the kind of business the Tories always say the govt should be getting on with.

[Crunchie]

For once, I'll agree with you but I would also question Ross's part in it. Why make those comments during a committee session when I imagine that time was designed for official business. You know, the kind of business the Tories always say the govt should be getting on with.
Ross, just like a number of MSP's come over as very immature and childish and is one of the main reasons we won't be seeing independence for a long time, if ever.
Petty point scoring on both sides is all I see whenever I tune in and watch them.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ross, just like a number of MSP's come over as very immature and childish and is one of the main reasons we won't be seeing independence for a long time, if ever.
Petty point scoring on both sides is all I see whenever I tune in and watch them.

You do realise that the petty point scoring was between mps at Westminster.

[ronaldo7]

You do realise that the petty point scoring was between mps at Westminster.

I suppose that's the trouble when you have 3 jobs. Nobody knows which one you're doing at the time. I thought he was asking for a red.

[Crunchie]

You do realise that the petty point scoring was between mps at Westminster.
In that instance, you see the same at Holyrood all the time.

[degenerated]

In that instance, you see the same at Holyrood all the time.I watch a lot of holyrood debates and can't say I've ever really seen much like that. I'm sure if it's a prevalent as you suggest you'll be able to point us in the direction of some recent examples.

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[Crunchie]

I watch a lot of holyrood debates and can't say I've ever really seen much like that. I'm sure if it's a prevalent as you suggest you'll be able to point us in the direction of some recent examples.

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I'm mainly talking about FM questions, I've no time nor desire to watch much more of them.

[Moulin Yarns]

In that instance, you see the same at Holyrood all the time.

Even worse is Ross was asking a question of Alistair Jack and didn't need to make any comments to, or about, the chair of the Scottish select Committee.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm mainly talking about FM questions, I've no time nor desire to watch much more of them.

You should try pmqs for comparison. 🙄

[Crunchie]

You should try pmqs for comparison. 🙄
It's a lot more serious imo, that is until we get the embarrassing stuff from the snp benches.

[lapsedhibee]

It's a lot more serious imo

:faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

It's a lot more serious imo, that is until we get the embarrassing stuff from the snp benches.


Get it right

You surely have to call them the Scottish Nationalist party 😉

[degenerated]

I'm mainly talking about FM questions, I've no time nor desire to watch much more of them.So you when you said all of the time you meant a couple of hours a week.

Now, I generally watch fmq's and even between Sturgeon and Davidson I can't think of seeing anything quite as rude and unprofessional as compared to how Ross conducted himself.

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[degenerated]

It's a lot more serious imo, that is until we get the embarrassing stuff from the snp benches.I know what you mean, when I look at the calibre of the likes Annie Wells and Murdo Fraser I often think of cancelling my SNP membership and becoming a Tory unionist.

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[Crunchie]

I know what you mean, when I look at the calibre of the likes Annie Wells and Murdo Fraser I often think of cancelling my SNP membership and becoming a Tory unionist.

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I cancelled mine a while back when we decided on a watered down version of independence.

[Future17]

It's a lot more serious imo, that is until we get the embarrassing stuff from the snp benches.

FMQs can be a bit hit and miss but PMQs is completely pointless because Johnson simply doesn't answer the questions he's asked.

[degenerated]

I cancelled mine a while back when we decided on a watered down version of independence.And became the diametric opposite instead, sounds entirely plausible.

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[JimBHibees]

It's a lot more serious imo, that is until we get the embarrassing stuff from the snp benches.

More serious in that Boris gets asked questions and seriously doesn't answer any of them. Absolute shambles

[Hibrandenburg]

You do realise that the petty point scoring was between mps at Westminster.

:faf:

[StevieC]

Ross, just like a number of MSP's come over as very immature and childish and is one of the main reasons we won't be seeing independence for a long time, if ever.
Petty point scoring on both sides is all I see whenever I tune in and watch them.

The worst has to be the Tory MP Andrew Bowie!
If you’ve seen any of his recent contributions, grinning and smirking like a 6 year old school boy, you’d have to wonder how he managed to get to where he is just now.

[StevieC]

I'm mainly talking about FM questions, I've no time nor desire to watch much more of them.

I regularly watch FMQ and I’ve never seen anything like that altercation. The only thing I’ve really seen to anything like that is when it eventually gets round to Willie Rennie and he comes out with some sort of nonsense that gets laughed down by the chamber.

[Smartie]

Could you not argue that all of politics, everywhere, is petty point scoring?

[Crunchie]

Could you not argue that all of politics, everywhere, is petty point scoring?
I don't think that's up for argument at all :top marks

[Crunchie]

I regularly watch FMQ and I’ve never seen anything like that altercation. The only thing I’ve really seen to anything like that is when it eventually gets round to Willie Rennie and he comes out with some sort of nonsense that gets laughed down by the chamber.
Rennie is definitely up there as one of the worst for sure.

[Crunchie]

And became the diametric opposite instead, sounds entirely plausible.

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I'm in the same boat as a lot of ex snp supporters, I'd rather be part of the UK than a crumbling EU. Germans will tire soon enough of propping up their economy and it'll all crumble imo.

[Just Alf]

SNP BAD is really just a caricature of real people, all parties will have at least one manifesto aim we can agree with.... as with everything though we do need the odd exception to the rule :greengrin


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[Crunchie]

:faf:
Simple minds are easily amused :aok:

[Just Alf]

Could you not argue that all of politics, everywhere, is petty point scoring?Agreed, pmq fmq seem to be the platform for it,
I think all parties use it to try and get some sound bites published, hopefully they all do some real work on our behalf in the background :agree:

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[lapsedhibee]

Simple minds are easily amused

Wilde?

[Moulin Yarns]

Wilde?

Jim kerr. 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

Simple minds are easily amused :aok:

Or....Simple minds are amusing. :faf:

[DaveF]

I'm in the same boat as a lot of ex snp supporters, I'd rather be part of the UK than a crumbling EU. Germans will tire soon enough of propping up their economy and it'll all crumble imo.

Ah, that's right, you and a LOT of your peer group all deserted Independence for Unionism when you saw the light.

I can't make mind up if this account is a Tory bot or if you are just a piss poor wind up merchant.

[Kato]

I'm in the same boat as a lot of ex snp supporters, I'd rather be part of the UK than a crumbling EU. Germans will tire soon enough of propping up their economy and it'll all crumble imo.

The EU is crumbling? What are the symptoms of that?

[StevieC]

I'm in the same boat as a lot of ex snp supporters, I'd rather be part of the UK than a crumbling EU. Germans will tire soon enough of propping up their economy and it'll all crumble imo.

Surprisingly I’ve actually come across quite a few ex-SNP “brexiteers” when I’ve been on the doorstep. A lot more than I suspect people imagine. The Independence cause may well have converted quite a few unionist “remainers”, but they’ll have lost quite a few “brexiteers”. The problem is that as long as the SNP promotes a FULL integration back into the EU there is no way that they’ll get this demograph back on board.

As a matter of interest Crunchie, are there any of the other options (that provide access to the single market) that you would accept?

[CloudSquall]

I've always wondered if a strategy to take up EFTA membership would still have attracted the same number of "No remainers" now on the Yes side while also keeping onside the "yes brexiteers".

I personally prefer the idea of EFTA membership but I accept it's not the majority position.

[Crunchie]

Surprisingly I’ve actually come across quite a few ex-SNP “brexiteers” when I’ve been on the doorstep. A lot more than I suspect people imagine. The Independence cause may well have converted quite a few unionist “remainers”, but they’ll have lost quite a few “brexiteers”. The problem is that as long as the SNP promotes a FULL integration back into the EU there is no way that they’ll get this demograph back on board.

As a matter of interest Crunchie, are there any of the other options (that provide access to the single market) that you would accept?
You should try telling Dave that, he seems to think we don't exist, don't know what insular world he lives in tbh. I want scotland to be independent full stop, plenty other european countries manage it.

[Crunchie]

Ah, that's right, you and a LOT of your peer group all deserted Independence for Unionism when you saw the light.

I can't make mind up if this account is a Tory bot or if you are just a piss poor wind up merchant.
I've tried explaining my position to you, either accept it or put me on ignore, I don't care. Not sure who you think I'm trying to wind up either, but you're flattering yourself a bit there. I've not got the time nor the inclination to wind up anyone, let alone fellow Hibby's :aok:.
I won't post on the independence thread anymore though it does seem to upset a few.

[StevieC]

You should try telling Dave that, he seems to think we don't exist, don't know what insular world he lives in tbh. I want scotland to be independent full stop, plenty other european countries manage it.

DaveF, they definitely exist. 😉

Crunchie, when you say “full stop” would you be open to Independence with single market access through EEA or EFTA without full integration?

[Crunchie]

DaveF, they definitely exist. 😉

Crunchie, when you say “full stop” would you be open to Independence with single market access through EEA or EFTA without full integration?
That's all too technical for me, I want/wanted a totally independent country, not one joined at the hip with Europe. That's definitely my final post on this thread mate, no offence to your good self, I can't be bothered going round in circles explaining my personal situation :aok:

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/186355468_4062050417185092_5538142060349126308_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=HandZ9oqmh0AX_o6C8V&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=ace555aa063df5927e4d22c9703af5a3&oe=60C602E1


Scottish Independence or Westminster Tories for decades :agree:

[weecounty hibby]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/186355468_4062050417185092_5538142060349126308_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=HandZ9oqmh0AX_o6C8V&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=ace555aa063df5927e4d22c9703af5a3&oe=60C602E1


Scottish Independence or Westminster Tories for decades :agree:

With that kind of majority they can pass any kind of laws they want to. They could be in power for decades to come as you say

[DaveF]

I've tried explaining my position to you, either accept it or put me on ignore, I don't care. Not sure who you think I'm trying to wind up either, but you're flattering yourself a bit there. I've not got the time nor the inclination to wind up anyone, let alone fellow Hibby's :aok:.
I won't post on the independence thread anymore though it does seem to upset a few.

I couldn't care less if you post on this or any other thread. I simply don't believe your story so will take your advice and stick on you on ignore. You can continue with your fairy tales and I'll happily miss out.

[CloudSquall]

That's all too technical for me, I want/wanted a totally independent country, not one joined at the hip with Europe. That's definitely my final post on this thread mate, no offence to your good self, I can't be bothered going round in circles explaining my personal situation :aok:

Without wanting to sound like a dick (but I'm going to), but if "single market access through EEA or EFTA" is too technical how can you ever make an informed decision on this topic?

[Pretty Boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

Maybe not the right thread for this. Anyway I see Wales are to trial UBI. It’s something Scotland should be seriously looking at now and in the future.

[Santa Cruz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

Maybe not the right thread for this. Anyway I see Wales are to trial UBI. It’s something Scotland should be seriously looking at now and in the future.

I'm not sure I understand why the Joseph Rowntree Fund are saying this can add to poverty? I can understand how it would be beneficial to people who are unemployed, in an insecure job or on a a low wage, why would every adult receive a payment when a good percentage earn a decent enough salary? I don't know anything about the policy, just what I've briefly read on the 'net.

[Jones28]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

Maybe not the right thread for this. Anyway I see Wales are to trial UBI. It’s something Scotland should be seriously looking at now and in the future.

I think it’s a terrific idea.

[CapitalGreen]

I'm not sure I understand why the Joseph Rowntree Fund are saying this can add to poverty? I can understand how it would be beneficial to people who are unemployed, in an insecure job or on a a low wage, why would every adult receive a payment when a good percentage earn a decent enough salary? I don't know anything about the policy, just what I've briefly read on the 'net.

Someone will be able to explain better than me, but essentially UBI could mean the tax free allowance is reduced/removed. So people who earn a decent amount will receive a payment this will be offset by an increase in the tax they pay through a reduction in the tax free allowance.

[Santa Cruz]

Someone will be able to explain better than me, but essentially UBI could mean the tax free allowance is reduced/removed. So people who earn a decent amount will receive a payment this will be offset by an increase in the tax they pay through a reduction in the tax free allowance.

Thanks for explaining.

[IberianHibernian]

Surprisingly I’ve actually come across quite a few ex-SNP “brexiteers” when I’ve been on the doorstep. A lot more than I suspect people imagine. The Independence cause may well have converted quite a few unionist “remainers”, but they’ll have lost quite a few “brexiteers”. The problem is that as long as the SNP promotes a FULL integration back into the EU there is no way that they’ll get this demograph back on board.

As a matter of interest Crunchie, are there any of the other options (that provide access to the single market) that you would accept? Until the mid 1970s the SNP had very little support ( there was a definite feeling among many Scots of right and left of " we`d like Scotland to be independent but we can`t afford it ") . That all changed with the discovery of oil in the North Sea and the " It`s Scotland`s Oil " campaign and UK entry in EU . The SNP suddenly won lots of seats principally in constituencies where farming and fishing were important and there was widespread opposition to the EU ( or Common Market of the time ) . That`s a long time ago now and obviously the EU has far more members than it had back in the 1970s and circumstances have changed . The nationalist movement in Scotland (or at least the SNP , at that time Greens had very little influence ) decided to follow " independence in Europe " even before EU referendum . Result of UK referendum on EU was perfect opportunity for SNP and Greens to push for second independence referendum but certainly doesn`t mean that there isn`t considerable opposition or at least scepticism to EU membership in Scotland including among many Yes voters . Was it not reported that nearly 35% of Scottish independence voters had voted against EU membership for UK ? I`m always sceptical of polls and doubt that figure is accurate but even so I`m sure there were a considerable number of 2014 Yes voters who did not vote remain in EU referendum .

[Ozyhibby]

Yesterday’s Better Together rally in Glasgow went well? [emoji23] Can’t hurt the Indy cause when the flag they are putting so much faith in is so associated with violence and smashing up our city centres.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/188576432_10159339117070960_6297051111843646201_n. jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=zA1eiK642dUAX-mgX3n&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=0dec4d2126acb5b349233ab8ca48f67d&oe=60CADCBE

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210520/0422eafc88046070d16885f822fd51f0.jpg

Unionism literally dying.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210520/c2ee7b41c544deefd2129705e38e3990.jpg


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[He's here!]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/trans-greens-are-greens/#more-130168

I see Wings over Scotland has decided to call it a day. The guy that runs it (think he lives somewhere in the south of England!) is saying there's no chance of a referendum during this parliament. I remember reading his stuff back in 2014 and thinking he was a right bampot but here's hoping he's right.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/trans-greens-are-greens/#more-130168

I see Wings over Scotland has decided to call it a day. The guy that runs it (think he lives somewhere in the south of England!) is saying there's no chance of a referendum during this parliament. I remember reading his stuff back in 2014 and thinking he was a right bampot but here's hoping he's right.

Welcome to the party. That is seriously old news. :rolleyes:

However, on the positive side, you are right, he is a bampot, and therefore best ignored, he backed the Alba party after all. Unless you are a rabid unionist, of course :wink:

[He's here!]

I'm sorry, that's the wrong story I've posted (what does Patrick Harvie make of that description I wonder?!). Here's his farewell rant. What's with the Rev title? Is he some sort of church minister?

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-ship-song/#more-130108

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm sorry, that's the wrong story I've posted (what does Patrick Harvie make of that description I wonder?!). Here's his farewell rant. What's with the Rev title? Is he some sort of church minister?

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-ship-song/#more-130108

It might just be my impression, but you come on here and do a few quick posts in a short time then shoot off quickly to recover. Not sure what you hope to achieve by that, certainly no long term relationships. :wink:

[Jack]

It might just be my impression, but you come on here and do a few quick posts in a short time then shoot off quickly to recover. Not sure what you hope to achieve by that, certainly no long term relationships. :wink:

So many forums to post unionist misinformation on and so little time!

[degenerated]

I'm sorry, that's the wrong story I've posted (what does Patrick Harvie make of that description I wonder?!). Here's his farewell rant. What's with the Rev title? Is he some sort of church minister?

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-ship-song/#more-130108Anyone can be a Rev. I choose not to use my title as an ordained minister of the church of the latter day dude :greengrin

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-organised-holyrood-24151812.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true


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[Jones28]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/trans-greens-are-greens/#more-130168

I see Wings over Scotland has decided to call it a day. The guy that runs it (think he lives somewhere in the south of England!) is saying there's no chance of a referendum during this parliament. I remember reading his stuff back in 2014 and thinking he was a right bampot but here's hoping he's right.

I still don't see his beef with the SNP, he's said they handed Johnson his landmark 80 seat majority - what power do they have to influence the lay of the land in English constituencies? Surely his ire should be directed at the failings of the Labour party in England who could have done something about it?

He's coming across as more and more of throbber with the crap that he spouts - his coverage of the 2016 final aside.

[JeMeSouviens]

I still don't see his beef with the SNP, he's said they handed Johnson his landmark 80 seat majority - what power do they have to influence the lay of the land in English constituencies? Surely his ire should be directed at the failings of the Labour party in England who could have done something about it?

He's coming across as more and more of throbber with the crap that he spouts - his coverage of the 2016 final aside.

It's the trans rights, gender recognition stuff he's got against the SNP. He's absolutely obsessed with it. The rest is just window dressing to attract the impatient.

But on the 80 seat majority thing, he reckons (well says he reckons at least) that the SNP should have cut a deal with the Tories to vote the Brexit deal through in exchange for an indyref. So there wouldn't have been an election.

****** mental, but there you go.

[Skol]

It's the trans rights, gender recognition stuff he's got against the SNP. He's absolutely obsessed with it. The rest is just window dressing to attract the impatient.

But on the 80 seat majority thing, he reckons (well says he reckons at least) that the SNP should have cut a deal with the Tories to vote the Brexit deal through in exchange for an indyref. So there wouldn't have been an election.

****** mental, but there you go.

I also think he doesnt believe Sturgeon will actually seek to hold a referendum anytime soon

[Colr]

Anyone can be a Rev. I choose not to use my title as an ordained minister of the church of the latter day dude :greengrin

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Like the reverend granny in Tam O’ Shanter

[degenerated]

Like the reverend granny in Tam O’ ShanterDudeism is for everyone :greengrin

https://dudeism.com/

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[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone can be a Rev. I choose not to use my title as an ordained minister of the church of the latter day dude :greengrin

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And then there's the Very Reverend D Wayne Love, of the First Presleyterian Church of Elvis the Divine.

[NYHibby]

I've always wondered if a strategy to take up EFTA membership would still have attracted the same number of "No remainers" now on the Yes side while also keeping onside the "yes brexiteers".

I personally prefer the idea of EFTA membership but I accept it's not the majority position.

I also personally strongly prefer EFTA membership for an independent Scotland than EU membership. It lets you sidestep some fishing issues, the EFTA documents are framed in language which more reflects the sovereignty of members and don’t envisage political integration and members are not bound by the EU’s common trade policy.

The last point is important. Scotland as an EFTA member would not be required to sign up to EFTA’s FTA with rUK. Scotland could negotiate a closer relationship with rUK which is better suited for its particular circumstances than the other EFTA members have.

But selling EFTA membership to the public is harder than selling rejoining the EU, and very few people are pro-brexit but also pro-joining EFTA.

[StevieC]

But selling EFTA membership to the public is harder than selling rejoining the EU, and very few people are pro-brexit but also pro-joining EFTA.

I think its really hard to gauge what pro-Brexit people’s actual stance is. I was really surprised at the number of ex-SNP brexiteers, and found it hard to work out why they had a pro-Brexit (or anti-EU) stance.
They may well have just bought into the “take back control” mantra, in which case they might be able to be sold on the EFTA option if they were told it could provide access to things without giving up control.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Flavible - Yougov - 20/05/2021 (https://flavible.co.uk/westminsterpolls/1071?tab=projection&fbclid=IwAR2woG0V2RUu9iRBu07n4Id7cVHZf-sxMhrhzau_K53Uls7MQ8lw4x9XUrU)


oh my

[CloudSquall]

Flavible - Yougov - 20/05/2021 (https://flavible.co.uk/westminsterpolls/1071?tab=projection&fbclid=IwAR2woG0V2RUu9iRBu07n4Id7cVHZf-sxMhrhzau_K53Uls7MQ8lw4x9XUrU)


oh my


I'd love to see Gordon Brown and co presented with those figures and try to explain just how Labour can provide Scotland with anything other than a Tory government for the foreseeable future.



Also, for the "fiscal transfer" Labour unionists, can they honestly trust Boris and co at 400+ seats to continue with the transfers? What would be in it for them? Their core base would lap it up if he cut off the fiscal transfers and pumped it into London and the SE instead.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd love to see Gordon Brown and co presented with those figures and try to explain just how Labour can provide Scotland with anything other than a Tory government for the foreseeable future.



Also, for the "fiscal transfer" Labour unionists, can they honestly trust Boris and co at 400+ seats to continue with the transfers? What would be in it for them? Their core base would lap it up if he cut off the fiscal transfers and pumped it into London and the SE instead.

And where is their self respect if they want Scotland to live of fiscal transfers anyway?


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[Callum_62]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57257631.amp

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[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57257631.amp

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Deputy First Minister Patrick Harvie perchance? What an appalling prospect that would be. Noxious wee s***e.

[Eaststand]

Deputy First Minister Patrick Harvie perchance? What an appalling prospect that would be. Noxious wee s***e.

I'm delighted to see the Greens having more influence within Scottish Politics and I'd trust Patrick Harvie and his Green Party colleagues before a Tory anyday.

GGTTH

[Bangkok Hibby]

I'm delighted to see the Greens having more influence within Scottish Politics and I'd trust Patrick Harvie and his Green Party colleagues before a Tory anyday.

GGTTH

Absolutely!

[weecounty hibby]

I'm delighted to see the Greens having more influence within Scottish Politics and I'd trust Patrick Harvie and his Green Party colleagues before a Tory anyday.

GGTTH
100%. Always found him and Lorna Slater pretty good and as honest as politicians can be

[Moulin Yarns]

100%. Always found him and Lorna Slater pretty good and as honest as politicians can be

I wonder if this is because Alison Johnson is going to be missing from participation now she is the Presiding Officer? If anything it will strengthen the talent pool available to the government in areas that I feel they are a bit weak.

It will prove to doubters that the Greens are a credible party and not "Noxious wee s***es" :wink:, but it also makes them part of the 'Establishment' which will put off some of their supporters.

[weecounty hibby]

I wonder if this is because Alison Johnson is going to be missing from participation now she is the Presiding Officer? If anything it will strengthen the talent pool available to the government in areas that I feel they are a bit weak.

It will prove to doubters that the Greens are a credible party and not "Noxious wee s***es" :wink:, but it also makes them part of the 'Establishment' which will put off some of their supporters.

I have no doubt they are a credible party and will become more so as generations move on. I think they appeal to younger folk as they are the ones who are more and more socially aware

[Callum_62]

Deputy First Minister Patrick Harvie perchance? What an appalling prospect that would be. Noxious wee s***e.Howcome?

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[Moulin Yarns]

Howcome?

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Don't hold your breath. I've noticed this poster comes on, throws an insult and handgrenade then runs away. No attempt to engage. I'm sure he's been here before in another guise. :rolleyes:

[Smartie]

I wonder if this is because Alison Johnson is going to be missing from participation now she is the Presiding Officer? If anything it will strengthen the talent pool available to the government in areas that I feel they are a bit weak.

It will prove to doubters that the Greens are a credible party and not "Noxious wee s***es" :wink:, but it also makes them part of the 'Establishment' which will put off some of their supporters.

I know this is a thing but I'll never understand why certain parties and their supporters would prefer to chunter away in the background rather than actually be in a position to influence and carry out change for the better, even if it falls short of what the absolute aims may be.

[Hiber-nation]

Deputy First Minister Patrick Harvie perchance? What an appalling prospect that would be. Noxious wee s***e.

Go and tell us what your previous user name was again. I'm undecided...a few to choose from.

[JeMeSouviens]

Go and tell us what your previous user name was again. I'm undecided...a few to choose from.

Apropos of nothing, were HomeTeam and Slavers the same person?

[marinello59]

Don't hold your breath. I've noticed this poster comes on, throws an insult and handgrenade then runs away. No attempt to engage. I'm sure he's been here before in another guise. :rolleyes:

If he/she has insulted another member here please report it. Whether he/she has been here before or not is something for the Admins to deal with if required. That leaves the rest of you free to debate the issues. :thumbsup:

[Bristolhibby]

I'm delighted to see the Greens having more influence within Scottish Politics and I'd trust Patrick Harvie and his Green Party colleagues before a Tory anyday.

GGTTH

This

[Moulin Yarns]

SNP MP @CMonaghanSNP asked on @bbc5live about her favourite children’s book - Adrian Chiles didn’t seem content with her choice.

He thinks the only children’s books in Scotland are about “beating back the English” 🙄 https://t.co/nrvyn89t0h

[Peevemor]

SNP MP @CMonaghanSNP asked on @bbc5live about her favourite children’s book - Adrian Chiles didn’t seem content with her choice.

He thinks the only children’s books in Scotland are about “beating back the English” 🙄 https://t.co/nrvyn89t0h

If they aren't already, then they should be now! :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

If they aren't already, then they should be now! :greengrin

Katie Morag recreates Bannockburn

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/5f30a98ebc07fee120e3cd3adf89c9e3.jpg

Anyone advocating for the union these days is advocating for permanent Tory rule of Scotland.


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[Santa Cruz]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/5f30a98ebc07fee120e3cd3adf89c9e3.jpg

Anyone advocating for the union these days is advocating for permanent Tory rule of Scotland.


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What's the longest any one party has remained in Gov? I can remember the Tory's 18 years until 1997, has there been any party that have governed longer than that?

[bawheid]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/5f30a98ebc07fee120e3cd3adf89c9e3.jpg

Anyone advocating for the union these days is advocating for permanent Tory rule of Scotland.


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It’s little wonder the sitting government are so far ahead in the polls when there isn’t a leader of the opposition in place.

What, there is? Who?

[Hibrandenburg]

It’s little wonder the sitting government are so far ahead in the polls when there isn’t a leader of the opposition in place.

What, there is? Who?

Sorry, but in a normal country, Laurel and Hardy would seem like a reasonable alternative to this Tory government. The problem really isn't the opposition, it's the electorate.

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry, but in a normal country, Laurel and Hardy would seem like a reasonable alternative to this Tory government. The problem really isn't the opposition, it's the electorate.

So long as we have a hostile environment for foreigners, everything else gets a free pass. And while we remain in the union there is nothing Scotland can do about this.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/83d45bf87cc8ab2251ec0875f171103e.jpg


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[Hibrandenburg]

So long as we have a hostile environment for foreigners, everything else gets a free pass. And while we remain in the union there is nothing Scotland can do about this.


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That's what the citizens of the United Kingdom want, and the more they get of it the more they want. Every odious act from this government is rewarded with more support.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/83d45bf87cc8ab2251ec0875f171103e.jpg


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Way to ensure iScotland is a republic! Good work baldy. :wink:

[wookie70]

That's what the citizens of the United Kingdom want, and the more they get of it the more they want. Every odious act from this government is rewarded with more support.

It is what the English citizens want. The main reason Independence is becoming more popular is their ever quickening march or should I say Goose-step to the far right while Scotland becomes more socially responsible, progressive and open as the years roll on. We are growing ever further away and I think England has plans to go much further right as this has full on Hitler written all over it. As the mess worsens the blame on those different, including us will become louder and used even more often.

[Hibrandenburg]

It is what the English citizens want. The main reason Independence is becoming more popular is their ever quickening march or should I say Goose-step to the far right while Scotland becomes more socially responsible, progressive and open as the years roll on. We are growing ever further away and I think England has plans to go much further right as this has full on Hitler written all over it. As the mess worsens the blame on those different, including us will become louder and used even more often.

I said back in 2014 that this was the last chance for Scotland to leave the Union on a peaceful basis. This government is capable of anything to be seen to protect its perceived ethnic brethren.

[Jonnyboy]

SNP MP @CMonaghanSNP asked on @bbc5live about her favourite children’s book - Adrian Chiles didn’t seem content with her choice.

He thinks the only children’s books in Scotland are about “beating back the English” 🙄 https://t.co/nrvyn89t0h

He also referred to the FM as Princess Nicola.

[Hibrandenburg]

He also referred to the FM as Princess Nicola.

Think he might be back on the bevvy.

[CloudSquall]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/83d45bf87cc8ab2251ec0875f171103e.jpg


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I guess like Boris he doesn't want to go down as a "leader" that saw the end to a Union.

No doubt they don't remember, know or consider the fact that England and Scotland shared the same royal family as two independent nations for 100 years before the political union so **** them, viva la republica.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Think he might be back on the bevvy.

Sounds like a right ****

[degenerated]

It is what the English citizens want. The main reason Independence is becoming more popular is their ever quickening march or should I say Goose-step to the far right while Scotland becomes more socially responsible, progressive and open as the years roll on. We are growing ever further away and I think England has plans to go much further right as this has full on Hitler written all over it. As the mess worsens the blame on those different, including us will become louder and used even more often.Have you seen the one nation one Britain thing that schools down there are doing? Absolutely reeks of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer.

https://www.onebritainonenation.com/



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[Bristolhibby]

Have you seen the one nation one Britain thing that schools down there are doing? Absolutely reeks of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer.

https://www.onebritainonenation.com/



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This sort of stuff, particularly in schools makes me sick.

This isn’t America. I went to school in the states and the Pledge of Allegiance and singing patriotic songs first thing in the morning was ludicrous even to me as a 6 year old.

Thankfully as a Brit, I was excused.

Even had a supply teacher ask me why I did t pledge allegiance. WTF?

Can still remember the pledge off by heart.

J

[heretoday]

It is what the English citizens want. The main reason Independence is becoming more popular is their ever quickening march or should I say Goose-step to the far right while Scotland becomes more socially responsible, progressive and open as the years roll on. We are growing ever further away and I think England has plans to go much further right as this has full on Hitler written all over it. As the mess worsens the blame on those different, including us will become louder and used even more often.

Hitler? I don't think so. Mind you, they are trying to get the trains running on time!

[danhibees1875]

Have you seen the one nation one Britain thing that schools down there are doing? Absolutely reeks of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer.

https://www.onebritainonenation.com/



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Maybe the real world actions (I've never heard of them or seen anything they've done) don't equate to their wishy washy ideals on their website, but I'm not seeing what's wrong with that?

I can see why you've drawn parallels due to them both using "one" repeatedly but I think they're done in very different ways; OBON doing so as a way of inclusion, Hitler probably less so.

[Moulin Yarns]

Have you seen the one nation one Britain thing that schools down there are doing? Absolutely reeks of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer.

https://www.onebritainonenation.com/



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I noticed they are using the Scottish rampant lion rather than the English supine lion. At least they have left our unicorn out of it 🦄😉

[JimBHibees]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/83d45bf87cc8ab2251ec0875f171103e.jpg


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In what way would the c4 pictures of that meeting be in anyway so sensitive as not being able to be shown. Indeed how would they be able to instruct anyone not to show it. Wonder what other things we are not being allowed to see.

Is William becoming as non-political but political as his dad.

[degenerated]

Maybe the real world actions (I've never heard of them or seen anything they've done) don't equate to their wishy washy ideals on their website, but I'm not seeing what's wrong with that?

I can see why you've drawn parallels due to them both using "one" repeatedly but I think they're done in very different ways; OBON doing so as a way of inclusion, Hitler probably less so.It's British nationalism and exceptionalism and they are targeting primary school children with it. That doesn't sit well with me at all.


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[Crunchie]

Maybe the real world actions (I've never heard of them or seen anything they've done) don't equate to their wishy washy ideals on their website, but I'm not seeing what's wrong with that?

I can see why you've drawn parallels due to them both using "one" repeatedly but I think they're done in very different ways; OBON doing so as a way of inclusion, Hitler probably less so.
The constant comparison by some on here to Nazi Germany and the UK govt is embarrassing and insulting imo.

[Moulin Yarns]

The constant comparison by some on here to Nazi Germany and the UK govt is embarrassing and insulting imo.

True, and then ther are those that think it's OK to rename the SNP as Snazis :rolleyes:

[Jack]

The constant comparison by some on here to Nazi Germany and the UK govt is embarrassing and insulting imo.

Aye, the Nazis will be raging.

[danhibees1875]

It's British nationalism and exceptionalism and they are targeting primary school children with it. That doesn't sit well with me at all.


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I don't see it that way from what's on that link, but fair enough. :aok:

[degenerated]

True, and then ther are those that think it's OK to rename the SNP as Snazis :rolleyes:And those with issues about cheese apparently [emoji1787]

https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/1398272140655443973?s=19

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[Ozyhibby]

And those with issues about cheese apparently [emoji1787]

https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/1398272140655443973?s=19

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That is surely an SNP black ops campaign?


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[degenerated]

That is surely an SNP black ops campaign?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat's Alistair Mcconnachie of the independent green voice. He's absolutely Emmental :greengrin

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[Moulin Yarns]

And those with issues about cheese apparently [emoji1787]

https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/1398272140655443973?s=19

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Omg has anyone phoned the asylum, the village is missing an idiot. 🙄

And, I don't think this numpty is a member of .net.

[Bostonhibby]

Aye, the Nazis will be raging.Can we just stick to Nasty party?

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210528/29126256ccec6da686e4538611ed472d.jpg

Telegraph.


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[northstandhibby]

Would it be 'impossible' to move away from a 'housing market' and geared fully towards what used to be council housing for everyone. Not flats in the sky for the many unable to access gardens and acres of space but good quality housing for all instead of the few? That would get my vote.

:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

Would it be 'impossible' to move away from a 'housing market' and geared fully towards what used to be council housing for everyone. Not flats in the sky for the many unable to access gardens and acres of space but good quality housing for all instead of the few? That would get my vote.

:aok:

No, it’s perfectly possible and the SG should be doing it. Building high quality family homes for young families is a no brainer. The rents would cover the borrowing costs and building them would boost the economy.


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[northstandhibby]

No, it’s perfectly possible and the SG should be doing it. Building high quality family homes for young families is a no brainer. The rents would cover the borrowing costs and building them would boost the economy.


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I'm on the same page as you Ozy. The housing market is a ponzi scheme in my opinion. We should of course be building quality houses for all. Independence could allow us in Scotland to build a better Scotland for all not just the few.

[Moulin Yarns]

No, it’s perfectly possible and the SG should be doing it. Building high quality family homes for young families is a no brainer. The rents would cover the borrowing costs and building them would boost the economy.


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https://www-thecourier-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/2261692/1-65m-housing-development-designed-for-wheelchair-users-completed-in-perth-city-centre/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16222744171550&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecourier.co.uk%2Ffp%2 Fnews%2Flocal%2Fperth-kinross%2F2261692%2F1-65m-housing-development-designed-for-wheelchair-users-completed-in-perth-city-centre%2F


The above shows that housing is being built for minority groups.

The Scottish Government doesn't build houses. Local government has the power to facilitate the building of affordable housing through the planning system. Low cost renting property is, in the main, provided by housing associations.

[JimBHibees]

In what way would the c4 pictures of that meeting be in anyway so sensitive as not being able to be shown. Indeed how would they be able to instruct anyone not to show it. Wonder what other things we are not being allowed to see.

Is William becoming as non-political but political as his dad.

I see Bbc now highlighting the Brown meeting as not secret at all despite the c4 news tweet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-57280315

[Moulin Yarns]

The new colour scheme for the Eurofighter Typhoons @RAFConingsby is being revealed
https://t.co/ogfJ3bD9Is
https://t.co/BW0x5SGXfA

Welcome to 'utopia'

[StevieC]

The new colour scheme for the Eurofighter Typhoons @RAFConingsby is being revealed
https://t.co/ogfJ3bD9Is
https://t.co/BW0x5SGXfA

Welcome to 'utopia'

Surely they can’t be sending a jet plane into battle with a big target on its tail?? 🤔

[Moulin Yarns]

Surely they can’t be sending a jet plane into battle with a big target on its tail?? 🤔

Maybe they think that it's a bit like the 'dazzle ships' and will confuse the enemy 🤔

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210530/051d108015472116799747f1abef063a.jpg

Wonder if this is the price for the royals entering politics in Scotland?


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[Jones28]

The new colour scheme for the Eurofighter Typhoons @RAFConingsby is being revealed
https://t.co/ogfJ3bD9Is
https://t.co/BW0x5SGXfA

Welcome to 'utopia'

Even nutter countries under military rule don’t feel the need to make their aircraft look like they’ve flown through a racist tattoo parlour.

[Ozyhibby]

https://mondediplo.com/2021/06/04scotland

Much to agree and disagree with in this.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/b7edcc458efe854010df704fd20895d9.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210612/726d4a8a8057cb619338e440f1e8816a.jpg
Johnson repeating the single country nonsense.[emoji849]


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[ronaldo7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210612/726d4a8a8057cb619338e440f1e8816a.jpg
Johnson repeating the single country nonsense.[emoji849]


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It's like they've all been sent the memo from the centre. Both parties.

[Moulin Yarns]

🤴LORD EVRA🤴 thank you to all my #scottish people ♥️ #ilovethisgame #positive4evra #lordevra #scotland https://t.co/kMX8JHHUv8


Ya beauty!!!! 🤣

[Mr Grieves]

🤴LORD EVRA🤴 thank you to all my #scottish people ♥️ #ilovethisgame #positive4evra #lordevra #scotland https://t.co/kMX8JHHUv8


Ya beauty!!!! 🤣

Yas! :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

mon the Croats :greengrin

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201139390_3896575243801397_1775838560524131266_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Li0mZ87qdCEAX8zA4t6&_nc_oc=AQmFBJkhny3CSU0Q1dKqRsX1wDbqVc-7LP1BJ0f12XXP48SSQgFo4WqQvaldGJLKOow&tn=5m7pnQZ1SlTC4D2w&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=1b443bd21e2c63946ab315e97a85eda8&oe=60CB3F21

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19369114.gordon-brown-warns-50-years-conflict-scotland-england/

Fair old escalation in rhetoric from Brown. We need to do as we’re told or England will start a war with us seems to be the jist.


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[xyz23jc]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19369114.gordon-brown-warns-50-years-conflict-scotland-england/

Fair old escalation in rhetoric from Brown. We need to do as we’re told or England will start a war with us seems to be the jist.


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Also has problems with his memory, seems to have completely forgot about Brexit...Stupid Old man....! Lol! :greengrin

[Jack]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19369114.gordon-brown-warns-50-years-conflict-scotland-england/

Fair old escalation in rhetoric from Brown. We need to do as we’re told or England will start a war with us seems to be the jist.


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If he had any baws he'd stand for election in a constituency seat. As it stands he's howling at the moon.

[WeeRussell]

🤴LORD EVRA🤴 thank you to all my #scottish people ♥️ #ilovethisgame #positive4evra #lordevra #scotland https://t.co/kMX8JHHUv8


Ya beauty!!!! 🤣

Quality from the wee man. He’s off his heid 😂

[JimBHibees]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19369114.gordon-brown-warns-50-years-conflict-scotland-england/

Fair old escalation in rhetoric from Brown. We need to do as we’re told or England will start a war with us seems to be the jist.


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Did he mention which side would be likely to be the cause of the breakdown in relations? His own country or the one we are better being tied with. He should go back to redrawing lines on maps.

[Callum_62]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210612/726d4a8a8057cb619338e440f1e8816a.jpg
Johnson repeating the single country nonsense.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIsn't it weird that Scotland are playing England in an international football tournament on Friday

Surely against the rules.

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[Ozyhibby]

http://scottishelections.ac.uk/2021/06/14/tribes-and-tribulations-holyrood-2021-explained-part-one/


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-mps-could-be-given-right-to-vote-down-english-legislation-under-reforms-aimed-at-boosting-union-3274972

Latest union saving wheeze.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-mps-could-be-given-right-to-vote-down-english-legislation-under-reforms-aimed-at-boosting-union-3274972

Latest union saving wheeze.


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Let's be honest, they are absolutely within their rights to do so anyway. David Cameron came out with the phrase on Friday the 19th September 2014, but before and since the SNP have been abstaining on English only debates and votes.

[Ozyhibby]

Let's be honest, they are absolutely within their rights to do so anyway. David Cameron came out with the phrase on Friday the 19th September 2014, but before and since the SNP have been abstaining on English only debates and votes.

And I don’t think a single person in cares about it either. But if they think that’s what saves the union then they are in bigger trouble than I thought.


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[1875godsgift]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-mps-could-be-given-right-to-vote-down-english-legislation-under-reforms-aimed-at-boosting-union-3274972

Latest union saving wheeze.


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'The proposals have already been opposed by two Cabinet ministers – Thérèse Coffey, work and pensions secretary, and Gavin Williamson, education secretary.

They are said to worry it would leave future governments vulnerable to English laws imposed against their will.'



Diddums.

[Jones28]

'The proposals have already been opposed by two Cabinet ministers – Thérèse Coffey, work and pensions secretary, and Gavin Williamson, education secretary.

They are said to worry it would leave future governments vulnerable to English laws imposed against their will.'



Diddums.




I’d hope that any SNP MP would abstain from these votes.

I have no interest in seeing the SNP have influence over what happens England unless it directly affects what happens in Scotland.

[Just Alf]

I’d hope that any SNP MP would abstain from these votes.

I have no interest in seeing the SNP have influence over what happens England unless it directly affects what happens in Scotland.That exactly what used to happen :agree:


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[Ozyhibby]

I’d hope that any SNP MP would abstain from these votes.

I have no interest in seeing the SNP have influence over what happens England unless it directly affects what happens in Scotland.

Because of the way funding is allocated, there are very few things that don’t affect Scotland. A vote to cut the education budget for England might look like it’s a matter for English mp’s but it would result in a cut in Barnett consequentials for Scotland.


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[Skol]

Because of the way funding is allocated, there are very few things that don’t affect Scotland. A vote to cut the education budget for England might look like it’s a matter for English mp’s but it would result in a cut in Barnett consequentials for Scotland.


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That is a good point. EVEL always seemed like a tone deaf solution from Cameron and I guess it’s a positive the current administration are correcting it. One of the few positives granted.

[Glory Lurker]

Because of the way funding is allocated, there are very few things that don’t affect Scotland. A vote to cut the education budget for England might look like it’s a matter for English mp’s but it would result in a cut in Barnett consequentials for Scotland.


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But delivering us from EVEL might allow the Tories to justify further meddling in devolved matters. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what's actually behind it.

[Jack]

But delivering us from EVEL might allow the Tories to justify further meddling in devolved matters. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what's actually behind it.

They're meddling anyway.

[Jones28]

Because of the way funding is allocated, there are very few things that don’t affect Scotland. A vote to cut the education budget for England might look like it’s a matter for English mp’s but it would result in a cut in Barnett consequentials for Scotland.


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I didn't think of it like that Ozy, but I still think we shouldn't have a system where powers can't be meddled with by Scottish MP's when they have been devolved to England.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/202634118_1712587582262220_7418090430385194812_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rZzSn9YZDmYAX8m2dHl&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=ba058ed6e0c3c39c6774f44421d3da9e&oe=60D3F2BA

[Jack]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/202634118_1712587582262220_7418090430385194812_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rZzSn9YZDmYAX8m2dHl&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=ba058ed6e0c3c39c6774f44421d3da9e&oe=60D3F2BA

I wonder who the enthusiastic talent, outwith the party, are?

[lapsedhibee]

I wonder who the enthusiastic talent, outwith the party, are?

Greens? :dunno:

[Jack]

Greens? :dunno:

They are the obvious ones. I'm sure there will be others, although maybe not Alba!

[cabbageandribs1875]

I wonder who the enthusiastic talent, outwith the party, are?


at a guess i'd probably say the Greens :greengrin


but i imagine their are people/groups not affiliated to the SNP but nonetheless do want independence :dunno:

[degenerated]

I didn't think of it like that Ozy, but I still think we shouldn't have a system where powers can't be meddled with by Scottish MP's when they have been devolved to England.If we are to stay in this sham of a union then England should have a devolved parliament of equal standing to holyrood, stormont and the senedd. And above that should be an elected body with equal representation from all 4 countries that deals with UK wide decisions.


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[Just Alf]

If we are to stay in this sham of a union then England should have a devolved parliament of equal standing to holyrood, stormont and the senedd. And above that should be an elected body with equal representation from all 4 countries that deals with UK wide decisions.


Sent from my CPH2009 using TapatalkTo be honest, if that actually happened I think it would be a hammer blow to the Indy cause. :agree:


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[Ozyhibby]

To be honest, if that actually happened I think it would be a hammer blow to the Indy cause. :agree:


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Zero chance of it happening though. You could never sell that plan in England.


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[degenerated]

To be honest, if that actually happened I think it would be a hammer blow to the Indy cause. :agree:


Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkWould never happen as England would never accept the others having an equal voice.

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[Glory Lurker]

I'm all for it. At a stroke it would highlight the irrelevance to Scotland of a lot of stuff that appears on and in UK news media and underline just how much control of crucial areas our unelected Tory government holds.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/allowing-scots-in-england-to-vote-in-indyref2-would-rig-rules?top&amp#click=https://t.co/Av22KjbC0n

Why are unionists so concerned about who can vote in a referendum they say we are not allowed to hold?


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[Mr Grieves]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/allowing-scots-in-england-to-vote-in-indyref2-would-rig-rules?top&amp#click=https://t.co/Av22KjbC0n

Why are unionists so concerned about who can vote in a referendum they say we are not allowed to hold?


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Oh, they're planning to get the unelected Baroness involved.
I did not see that coming

[MyJo]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/allowing-scots-in-england-to-vote-in-indyref2-would-rig-rules?top&amp#click=https://t.co/Av22KjbC0n

Why are unionists so concerned about who can vote in a referendum they say we are not allowed to hold?


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Wonder if that option is as solid a win for the Unionist cause as they believe it will be.

If they open it up to Scots born people living in other parts of the UK then surely they would have to allow all Scots born people to get a vote, regardless of which country they live in meaning all the emigrants to places like Australia & Canada would be entitled to their say as well. No guarantee that there is the same sentiment of britishness amongst that group that they are hoping will be there in those in rUK in order for them to vote no in the referendum

Given we are also clear in our intention that an independent Scotland would look to rejoin the EU I can imagine the option of getting a Scottish Passport allowing free movement within the EU whilst living and working in another country, shielded from the economic implications of our independence would be an attractive option for a lot of people in rUK and beyond as well.

The very definition of having your cake and eating it like those brexiteers who got themselves Irish passports after voting leave.

[Skol]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/allowing-scots-in-england-to-vote-in-indyref2-would-rig-rules?top&amp#click=https://t.co/Av22KjbC0n

Why are unionists so concerned about who can vote in a referendum they say we are not allowed to hold?


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This puzzles me as I thought it was more likely to favour Independence as people can vote without any consequences. For the record I think only Scottish residents should be able to vote.

[Hibrandenburg]

Wonder if that option is as solid a win for the Unionist cause as they believe it will be.

If they open it up to Scots born people living in other parts of the UK then surely they would have to allow all Scots born people to get a vote, regardless of which country they live in meaning all the emigrants to places like Australia & Canada would be entitled to their say as well. No guarantee that there is the same sentiment of britishness amongst that group that they are hoping will be there in those in rUK in order for them to vote no in the referendum

Given we are also clear in our intention that an independent Scotland would look to rejoin the EU I can imagine the option of getting a Scottish Passport allowing free movement within the EU whilst living and working in another country, shielded from the economic implications of our independence would be an attractive option for a lot of people in rUK and beyond as well.

The very definition of having your cake and eating it like those brexiteers who got themselves Irish passports after voting leave.

Great point and probably even more relevant for Scots living in the EU.

[Hibrandenburg]

The so called British press tomorrow seem to be concentrating on the devastation caused to the already qualified English team by Billy Gilmour's positive covid test. Not a peep about how it will effect Scotland's chances.

[Stairway 2 7]

The so called British press tomorrow seem to be concentrating on the devastation caused to the already qualified English team by Billy Gilmour's positive covid test. Not a peep about how it will effect Scotland's chances.

It does seem daft the have to isolate after testing negative twice. I'm sure other opposing players have hugged at the end of the game, especially in euros with team mates. Funny though still

[Skol]

I see the SNP have confirmed the ring fenced £600k has been spent on other purposes. It wasnt just some bluster from a nutcase.

Its Ok though as they have a record of what was raised and will spend it in due course. Every penny we spend is directly or indirectly for Independence. There will be another fund raiser soon.

[Peevemor]

I see the SNP have confirmed the ring fenced £600k has been spent on other purposes. It wasnt just some bluster from a nutcase.

Its Ok though as they have a record of what was raised and will spend it in due course. Every penny we spend is directly or indirectly for Independence. There will be another fund raiser soon.

Have they?

That's not what I read in their official statement.

Anyway, why are you bothered? You should be happy if the money isn't available to spend.

But of course, it is.

[Skol]

Have they?

That's not what I read in their official statement.

Anyway, why are you bothered? You should be happy if the money isn't available to spend.

But of course, it is.

The official statement is pretty hard to find but the reports of whatever it says are pretty clear in that the money has been spent but they have a tally of what they need to spend in the future. If you can point me to something that confirms the £600k is ringfenced that would be great.

Why am I bothered ? Because these are the people that are telling us to believe them that Independence will be the best future for Scotland.

[JimBHibees]

The so called British press tomorrow seem to be concentrating on the devastation caused to the already qualified English team by Billy Gilmour's positive covid test. Not a peep about how it will effect Scotland's chances.

Always blaming the sweaties :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

The official statement is pretty hard to find but the reports of whatever it says are pretty clear in that the money has been spent but they have a tally of what they need to spend in the future. If you can point me to something that confirms the £600k is ringfenced that would be great.


Groundhog Day's my favourite moving picture.

[Peevemor]

The official statement is pretty hard to find but the reports of whatever it says are pretty clear in that the money has been spent but they have a tally of what they need to spend in the future. If you can point me to something that confirms the £600k is ringfenced that would be great.

Why am I bothered ? Because these are the people that are telling us to believe them that Independence will be the best future for Scotland.

Show me something concrete where it's reported that the money has been spent.

I bet you can't.

[Skol]

Show me something concrete where it's reported that the money has been spent.

I bet you can't.

Its behind a paywall but the times says:

The SNP’s treasurer has admitted that the party has spent on other matters some of a “ringfenced” £600,000 fund raised from donors to fight a second independence referendum and said a new cash drive may now be needed.

[Peevemor]

Its behind a paywall but the times says:

The SNP’s treasurer has admitted that the party has spent on other matters some of a “ringfenced” £600,000 fund raised from donors to fight a second independence referendum and said a new cash drive may now be needed.

Instead of quoting a Times article you can't even read, what about the SNP treasurer's statement, on which the article is based?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19385760.snps-new-national-treasurer-releases-statement-600-000-indyref2/


6. To be clear, by the end of 2020 a total of £666,953 had been raised through the independence related appeals and coded as such through the internal process. These donations are also included in – and have been reconciled with – the total amount for donations included in Party accounts from 2017 to 2020. Up until 31st December 2020 a total of £51,760 of expenditure had been applied against this income. The balance remains “earmarked” – through the internal process explained above – for independence related campaigning. It is worth noting that there are other items of expenditure that it would have been perfectly legitimate for us to apply against this income but we have chosen not to do so. In other words, we are taking a very strict approach to ensuring that this income supports expenditure directly related to the campaign for independence.

8. There has been concern expressed in some quarters that this system does not result in a separate fund being officially recorded in the annual accounts of the Party. Hence a claim from some that the money does not exist. In fact the money is “earmarked” through the internal process set out above and will be deployed fully through future cash flow for the purpose of promoting a referendum on independence and campaigns intended to secure independence. All money raised by the Party through multiple revenue sources is managed through the books of the Party and, in common with other funds is expensed and paid when required through the normal Treasury Managed cash flow of the Party. While these monies are not separated out, their existence in terms of the commitment as to what they will be spent on is tangible. The National Treasurer and the CEO have responsibility for managing cash flow and ensuring that all liabilities are met when they fall due.

9. In addition to the amount mentioned in paragraph 6 above that has been applied against the income already, we are budgeting to allocate much of the remainder for referendum/independence preparations this year. There may be a need for a further fund raising exercise early in 2022 as we approach critical political watersheds.

10. The concern expressed is that all of this is not set out as clearly and transparently as it could be has been recognised, hence the inclusion of this statement in the Annual Review and the National Treasurer and CEO are in discussions with the external auditors as to how such transparency can be achieved and improved in future years."


So they've spent £51k of the money for the purpose for which it was donated. They could have attributed more but didn't.

They're probably going to spend the rest for the intended purpose this year (it's hardly a fortune in real terms), thus the talk of a need for more fundraising next year.

Is that enough for you, or are you going to continue to make stuff up?

[Ozyhibby]

Instead of quoting a Times article you can't even read, what about the SNP treasurer's statement, on which the article is based?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19385760.snps-new-national-treasurer-releases-statement-600-000-indyref2/



So they've spent £51k of the money for the purpose for which it was donated. They could have attributed more but didn't.

They're probably going to spend the rest for the intended purpose this year (it's hardly a fortune in real terms), thus the talk of a need for more fundraising next year.

Is that enough for you, or are you going to continue to make stuff up?

Does anyone really believe the SNP will spend less than 600k on the independence campaign? [emoji23]
Still, while unionists spend all their time worrying about this, we can focus on persuading people of the benefits of Indy.


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[lapsedhibee]

Instead of quoting a Times article you can't even read, what about the SNP treasurer's statement, on which the article is based?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19385760.snps-new-national-treasurer-releases-statement-600-000-indyref2/



So they've spent £51k of the money for the purpose for which it was donated. They could have attributed more but didn't.

They're probably going to spend the rest for the intended purpose this year (it's hardly a fortune in real terms), thus the talk of a need for more fundraising next year.

Is that enough for you, or are you going to continue to make stuff up?

So what are you saying, that The Times has spun what the Treasurer actually said as an admission of guilt? Shocked. :shocked:

[Skol]

To me its pretty clear the money is not ring fenced and OK it probably will be spent , as long as the funds are generated again, but that is not what was promised at the outset.

I dont like the lack of transparency in all of this, but you guys are OK with it so it must all be fine.

[Peevemor]

To me its pretty clear the money is not ring fenced and OK it probably will be spent , as long as the funds are generated again, but that is not what was promised at the outset.

I dont like the lack of transparency in all of this, but you guys are OK with it so it must all be fine.

No, what they're saying is that the funds will be spent and then they'll have to generate more.

[GlesgaeHibby]

No, what they're saying is that the funds will be spent and then they'll have to generate more.

The funds have been spent. The SNP had £97k in cash according to their most recent accounts.

[Peevemor]

The funds have been spent. The SNP had £97k in cash according to their most recent accounts.

If I'm overdrawn by £50 (on an authorised overdraft of £100) and you give me £60, my bank balance will be +£10. Have I spent your £60? No. Can I access your £60 to give you it back? Yes.

And don't give me the guff about banks recalling overdrafts at any time, the SNP's borrowing will be well secured.

[Just Alf]

Quite telling that the discussion to support the union is now about how the SNP will spend their campaign funds.

[GlesgaeHibby]

If I'm overdrawn by £50 (on an authorised overdraft of £100) and you give me £60, my bank balance will be +£10. Have I spent your £60? No. Can I access your £60 to give you it back? Yes.

And don't give me the guff about banks recalling overdrafts at any time, the SNP's borrowing will be well secured.

The money was to go into a 'ring fenced fund' - exactly how the SNP campaign described it. Presumably all those that contributed were asked to confirm they were ok with the SNP borrowing from a specific purpose ring fenced fund, for day to day spending?

[Ozyhibby]

Quite telling that the discussion to support the union is now about how the SNP will spend their campaign funds.

It’s all they’ve got.


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[Kato]

Quite telling that the discussion to support the union is now about how the SNP will spend their campaign funds.Against a background of all the other parties being crystal clear about their funding, [emoji848]

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[lapsedhibee]

The money was to go into a 'ring fenced fund' - exactly how the SNP campaign described it. Presumably all those that contributed were asked to confirm they were ok with the SNP borrowing from a specific purpose ring fenced fund, for day to day spending?

Is this the new smoking gun? Every individual donor wasn't consulted on how their donation was being managed? Jeezo.

[Peevemor]

The money was to go into a 'ring fenced fund' - exactly how the SNP campaign described it. Presumably all those that contributed were asked to confirm they were ok with the SNP borrowing from a specific purpose ring fenced fund, for day to day spending?

Show me where it's reported that the SNP "borrowed" from this fund. Anywhere.

[Peevemor]

Is this the new smoking gun? Every individual donor wasn't consulted on how their donations were being managed? Jeezo.

Although the treasurer has confirmed that donations to be used for a specific purpose are recorded as such.

[Sylar]

If I'm overdrawn by £50 (on an authorised overdraft of £100) and you give me £60, my bank balance will be +£10. Have I spent your £60? No. Can I access your £60 to give you it back? Yes.

And don't give me the guff about banks recalling overdrafts at any time, the SNP's borrowing will be well secured.

I mean this genuinely and not to be an irritation, but secured against what? What assets do a political party have to secure borrowing against?

[Peevemor]

I mean this genuinely and not to be an irritation, but secured against what? What assets do a political party have to secure borrowing against?

I'm guessing here, but for the SNP to have been permitted borrowing of up to £1m, I reckon that anonymous benefactors will have provided guarantees/security.

In saying that, £1m shouldn't be too scary for the banks for an organisation that has 100k members.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Show me where it's reported that the SNP "borrowed" from this fund. Anywhere.

Ah, so the ring fenced £600k fund exists as an IOU from the SNPs overdraft/borrowing facilities - really? It's gone from "ring fenced" to "woven through the accounts" to "earmarked". The treasurer and NEC members resigned as Murrell refused access to the books, but there's nothing to see here...

[Skol]

It’s all they’ve got.


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Its just the latest in a long list of things. I could just as easily raise front the last few days the OECD report or the way the Manchester travel restrictions were handled as two other recent examples.

The Independence support though just do not want to accept anything that might suggest the SNP are not the great white hope and we just get what strike me as bizzare justifications and explanations.

Are the SNP as bad as the Tories ? No they are not, but there is more than enough about them to have doubts over them.

A while back someone asked why people who oppose independence dont often post here. When I explained why I didnt post, I was asked to keep posting as people were interested in the opposing view to challenge thinking. Clearly thats not the case.

[Ozyhibby]

Ah, so the ring fenced £600k fund exists as an IOU from the SNPs overdraft/borrowing facilities - really? It's gone from "ring fenced" to "woven through the accounts" to "earmarked". The treasurer and NEC members resigned as Murrell refused access to the books, but there's nothing to see here...

They resigned because deep down they are Alba supporters.


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[Ozyhibby]

Its just the latest in a long list of things. I could just as easily raise front the last few days the OECD report or the way the Manchester travel restrictions were handled as two other recent examples.

The Independence support though just do not want to accept anything that might suggest the SNP are not the great white hope and we just get what strike me as bizzare justifications and explanations.

Are the SNP as bad as the Tories ? No they are not, but there is more than enough about them to have doubts over them.

A while back someone asked why people who oppose independence dont often post here. When I explained why I didnt post, I was asked to keep posting as people were interested in the opposing view to challenge thinking. Clearly thats not the case.

The say the SNP are not as bad as the Tories but you want to stick with the Tories. Mental position to take.


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