Scottish Independence

[Colr]

Worth paying for the FT Weekend. No funnies but a decent weekend of reading in it.

[Ozyhibby]

Rather flimsy article in the FT this morning

https://amp.ft.com/content/91027115-3159-4132-9a0a-31bab473d6bb

Not sure what the authors claim of being half-Scots means but its clearly a status that bestows no insight whatsoever into the motivations for Scottish independence.

His solution is imposing a new act of union on us? I assume using the weight of English votes in the uk parliament?


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[Keith_M]

Worth paying for the FT Weekend. No funnies but a decent weekend of reading in it.



Cheers, Colr


:aok:

[lapsedhibee]

His solution is imposing a new act of union on us? I assume using the weight of English votes in the uk parliament?


"Scottish Nationalist party". You know you're not getting anything clued-up as soon as you see that.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-56134386?__twitter_impression=true


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[ronaldo7]

"Throwing small bones has not quelled the separatists fervor".

Are we all feeling the love in our family of nations, as the equal partners that we are. 😂

She forgot evel too.

Doffing cap, I'm going to spend my inheritance given to me by my English masters.

[cabbageandribs1875]

not even photoshopped :agree:

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151644117_10224785321720459_3641430542161882829_o. jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_vqH_Q8s39kAX-h4HeK&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=3deffb6a854d987da3351f0a46eac7e4&oe=6055340F


:0

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tunnel-vision-now-pm-sets-his-sights-on-a-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-cg9523lxp


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1363480576808869891?s=21

Hilarious thread.


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[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1363480576808869891?s=21

Hilarious thread.


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Are we going to make the Irish pay for it?

[Ozyhibby]

Are we going to make the Irish pay for it?

Why we letting the Mexicans off with it?


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[lord bunberry]

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1363480576808869891?s=21

Hilarious thread.


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Ffs the man has lost the plot.

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1363480576808869891?s=21

Hilarious thread.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCripes, the guy is a complete muppet.

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[Moulin Yarns]

Cripes, the guy is a complete muppet.

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If a world power, like the Faroe Islands, can do it then a wee place like the Isle of Man will have no problem. It will put the sale of jetskis at risk though.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210221/c205a0087c81ebc59d1a176684896618.jpg

Looking at the plan, people in Scotland would be quicker taking the ferry.


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[Jones28]

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1363480576808869891?s=21

Hilarious thread.


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He’s Trump with a classics degree and a Barbour jacket.

That’s really annoying because I ****ing love Barbour jackets.

[CloudSquall]

I'll wait for Starmer's defence of his man Boris before forming my opinion :greengrin

[Jack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210221/c205a0087c81ebc59d1a176684896618.jpg

Looking at the plan, people in Scotland would be quicker taking the ferry.


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That plan is surely a diversion tactic to distract people from talking about reality.

I'll wager folk will be transporting Star Trek style before that, or indeed the Scotland - NI one, makes it off the dafties drawing board.

[CloudSquall]

For those with nothing to do tonight Wings over Scotland has made it back onto Twitter under the guise of "CometoGhana" and giving anyone and everyone pelters.


https://mobile.twitter.com/ComeToGhana

[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210221/c205a0087c81ebc59d1a176684896618.jpg

Looking at the plan, people in Scotland would be quicker taking the ferry.


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I feel sorry for the Welsh. Excluded from the wonder of the Manx roundabout

[Ozyhibby]

I feel sorry for the Welsh. Excluded from the wonder of the Manx roundabout

Especially when that tunnel from Liverpool looks longer than one from Wales to Ireland.[emoji23]


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[Ryan91]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tunnel-vision-now-pm-sets-his-sights-on-a-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man-cg9523lxp


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:Ummm:

You wonder if Boris ever stops to think about how utterly daft his ideas sound.

Seems like someone else came up with a similar idea a year ago on Facebook/Reddit, albeit as a joke.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/f49ku1/the_solution_to_boris_bridge_problems_isle_of/

[Bristolhibby]

I feel sorry for the Welsh. Excluded from the wonder of the Manx roundabout

Surely if we have some belief and ambition we can connect Anglesey to the Isle of Man?

J

[Bristolhibby]

Especially when that tunnel from Liverpool looks longer than one from Wales to Ireland.[emoji23]


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Could you imagine breaking down in that one? Or a multiple car crash pile up?

A fire?

J

[Jack]

Surely if we have some belief and ambition we can connect Anglesey to the Isle of Man?

J

Get a tug boat to tow it there.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/unionists-are-preparing-for-the-wrong-fight/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/unionists-are-preparing-for-the-wrong-fight/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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All over the place from Henry, as ever. He not only thinks it's possible to roll back devolution but that somehow that will be popular. Reading stuff like that, I actually think England needs Scottish independence even more urgently than Scotland does. (Phew, nearly said "we" there. :wink:)

[Ozyhibby]

All over the place from Henry, as ever. He not only thinks it's possible to roll back devolution but that somehow that will be popular. Reading stuff like that, I actually think England needs Scottish independence even more urgently than Scotland does. (Phew, nearly said "we" there. :wink:)

He also says a referendum should be refused and then offers advice on how it should be fought.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210224/e0291dcce4ef2909ade73557ca790512.jpg


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[Callum_62]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210224/e0291dcce4ef2909ade73557ca790512.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDuring a pandemic?

Unbelievable Jeff

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-56193743?__twitter_impression=true


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/tadhghickey/status/1364864367121022977?s=21


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[SHODAN]

During a pandemic?

Unbelievable Jeff

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Day job blah blah blah blah

[JeMeSouviens]

A new poll! From Ipsos/MORI.

Y 52 N 48

Last poll from them was 56-44, so Union all but saved. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

SNP still miles ahead in Holyrood VI.


Constituency/Regional

SNP 52/47
Tory 23/22
Lab 15/14
Lib 5/6
Grn 3/8

[Ozyhibby]

A new poll! From Ipsos/MORI.

Y 52 N 48

Last poll from them was 56-44, so Union all but saved. :wink:

At the risk of sounding like a Jambo, is that 22 in a row?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/emily_ipsosmori/status/1364893246044913670?s=21


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[weecounty hibby]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

[JeMeSouviens]

At the risk of sounding like a Jambo, is that 22 in a row?


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In my book, it's only 21 as one poll by Survation wasn't a straight Y/N to the usual question.

[Kato]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

Looking at the front pages of the rags this week it's hard to argue with anything you say.

[JeMeSouviens]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

It's pretty hard to look at the goings on of the last few years around the Westminster parliament and conclude that things here are *that* bad surely? Anyone who falls for it wants to fall for it, because it reinforces their own (unshakeable) worldview.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-break-up-is-boris-about-to-lose-scotland/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[JimBHibees]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

Classic divide and conquer

[weecounty hibby]

Classic divide and conquer
100% if the SNP were polling at the low levels of the unionist parties the press and Baillie and Davidson wouldn't be giving a **** about this. They can't touch the FM in Parliament, in debate or at the ballot box. They see this as a way to throw mud about hoping that floating voters will swither and go back to Labour or Tories.
It is laughable to see unionist commentators salivating at the prospect of Salmond winning. And its also not about process or protecting women, its about trying to bring down NS.

[CloudSquall]

With the ISP nowhere to be seen in polling I hope those that are using their 2nd vote solely for an independence referendum give it to the SNP or Greens.

[StevieC]

With the ISP nowhere to be seen in polling I hope those that are using their 2nd vote solely for an independence referendum give it to the SNP or Greens.

I agree. Shouldn’t be touching the ISP with a barge pole.

I think the Greens also need to start upping their game and thinking about their campaign strategy. A lot of people disappointed that they put a candidate forward in Edinburgh last time around, that allowed Ruth Davidson to get in on the constituency vote. If they want to maximise their seats they need to stay away from constituency seats and concentrate on a good List strategy.

[JimBHibees]

100% if the SNP were polling at the low levels of the unionist parties the press and Baillie and Davidson wouldn't be giving a **** about this. They can't touch the FM in Parliament, in debate or at the ballot box. They see this as a way to throw mud about hoping that floating voters will swither and go back to Labour or Tories.
It is laughable to see unionist commentators salivating at the prospect of Salmond winning. And its also not about process or protecting women, its about trying to bring down NS.

Agree that is all it is. Throw as much mud as possible and see what sticks. What happens when you have a compliant media

[One Day Soon]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but hey ho: https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1364864367121022977

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but hey ho: https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1364864367121022977

😂

[JimBHibees]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but hey ho: https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1364864367121022977

Absolutely fantastic :faf:

[ronaldo7]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

Im getting a sense from the those in the trenches getting galvanized, and ready for the fight ahead. Having canvassed many in the party regarding the current situation, they're champing at the bit to get going again. If we start out the campaign anywhere near 50/50, we'll drive our number north, leaving the yoons in our wake.

Keep the faith.

[EI255]

Alex Salmond is doing everything in his locker to ruin any chance of independence. Hearts fkr.

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[bawheid]

The age old British policy of spreading disharmony, lies, getting their opposition involved in infighting, handing out some trinkets and baubles, telling the locals that they're not able to govern themselves, tell them that their government, judiciary etc are not as well run as Westminster not quite working as well as they'd hope. But sadly some believe it. What is happening now is absolutely a British tactic in so many colonised countries for centuries. Hopefully like the other 60+ countries have done we will see that for the bull**** that it is and we will soon join them

The state broadcaster going all in on the 6 O’Clock News tonight. Pretty disgraceful.

[Berwickhibby]

Im getting a sense from the those in the trenches getting galvanized, and ready for the fight ahead. Having canvassed many in the party regarding the current situation, they're champing at the bit to get going again. If we start out the campaign anywhere near 50/50, we'll drive our number north, leaving the yoons in our wake.

Keep the faith.

Enough of the Yoon pish ...you Nats get upset when described as Snazi's

[lord bunberry]

Enough of the Yoon pish ...you Nats get upset when described as Snazi's
I really wish you’d stop that. I’m not a fan of using the yoon line, but it’s a pretty harmless put down. Bringing the nazis into this is not only offensive, but it’s absolutely shocking patter. Can you not think of anything else to use that doesn’t compare me to mass murder and genocide. :rolleyes:

[Berwickhibby]

f
I really wish you’d stop that. I’m not a fan of using the yoon line, but it’s a pretty harmless put down. Bringing the nazis into this is not only offensive, but it’s absolutely shocking patter. Can you not think of anything else to use that doesn’t compare me to mass murder and genocide. :rolleyes:

Well I find the term "Yoon" offensive as it was suggested that Unionist's are Loons during the 2014 campaign. However as pointed out to me the term Yoon passes the swear filter so it can be used.

[ronaldo7]

Enough of the Yoon pish ...you Nats get upset when described as Snazi's

If it's good enough for Kenny Farq, and David Leask, then it's good enough for me. I've never ever heard them mention Snazi's though. Just you. :wink:

Next you'll be telling me not to use the term Hun.

[Berwickhibby]

If it's good enough for Kenny Farq, and David Leask, then it's good enough for me. I've never ever heard them mention Snazi's though. Just you. :wink:

Next you'll be telling me not to use the term Hun.

If the term is good enough to describe Arthur Donaldson then it's good enough for me :wink:

[ronaldo7]

If the term is good enough to describe Arthur Donaldson then it's good enough for me :wink:

Ok Hun. :wink:

[Berwickhibby]

Ok Hun. :wink:

:confused::confused: Never surported Rangers in my puff :na na:

[lord bunberry]

:confused::confused: Never surported Rangers in my puff :na na:
I’ve never gassed anyone.

[Green Man]

I got a Conservative campaign leaflet through the door the other day. The whole thing was about stopping the SNP and preventing a referendum, no reference to actual policy. And they accuse the SNP of being obsessed with independence?

[Kato]

I got a Conservative campaign leaflet through the door the other day. The whole thing was about stopping the SNP and preventing a referendum, no reference to actual policy. And they accuse the SNP of being obsessed with independence?I expect BBC Scotland will have a feature or documentary pointing out this sheer hypocrisy, I can't imagine they will just let it pass or indeed, help the Tories push this angle every night on the news.

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[Berwickhibby]

Can I ask a moderator possibly "Pretty Boy" to decide what is and isn't acceptable terms and then we abide by the decision

[ronaldo7]

Can I ask a moderator possibly "Pretty Boy" to decide what is and isn't acceptable terms and then we abide by the decision

As I've said. Yoon is already being used in the Unionist newspapers as a balance of Cybernat. I've never seen Snazi used in any of the papers.

[Hibrandenburg]

If it's good enough for Kenny Farq, and David Leask, then it's good enough for me. I've never ever heard them mention Snazi's though. Just you. :wink:

Next you'll be telling me not to use the term Hun.

Just don't mention Butcher's Apron and you'll be alright.

[weecounty hibby]

Enough of the Yoon pish ...you Nats get upset when described as Snazi's

That is ****ing pathetic and really boils my pish. Yoon is short for unionist, it's a bit rubbish but generally inoffensive. You want to take offence for the sake of it. Snazi is you basically saying that me and anyone else who is a SNP member or votes SNP is a right wing neo Nazi who is akin to those who during the 1930s and 40s murdered and persecuted millions of people. You actually tried to take some sort of moral high ground about this a few weeks ago when I asked you who was more far right between the SNP and EDL, Britain First etc. I agree that perhaps the admins should decide about what is acceptable but I'm sure that most folk would see exactly what you are trying to do. As I say ****ing pathetic

[bawheid]

It’s quite similar to the Huns saying Hun is sectarian as some kind of balance to their horrible bigoted ways.

[Berwickhibby]

That is ****ing pathetic and really boils my pish. Yoon is short for unionist, it's a bit rubbish but generally inoffensive. You want to take offence for the sake of it. Snazi is you basically saying that me and anyone else who is a SNP member or votes SNP is a right wing neo Nazi who is akin to those who during the 1930s and 40s murdered and persecuted millions of people. You actually tried to take some sort of moral high ground about this a few weeks ago when I asked you who was more far right between the SNP and EDL, Britain First etc. I agree that perhaps the admins should decide about what is acceptable but I'm sure that most folk would see exactly what you are trying to do. As I say ****ing pathetic

Yawn, your pathetic...Yoon is a derogatory term for Unionists and other term was a discrition for a former SNP leader. But it's ok in your book to use insults and swear at anyone who disagrees

[ronaldo7]

Yawn, your pathetic...Yoon is a derogatory term for Unionists and other term was a discrition for a former SNP leader. But it's ok in your book to use insults and swear at anyone who disagrees

What's derogatory about the term Yoon?

[Berwickhibby]

What's derogatory about the term Yoon?

It was made specifically to look like loon, as in people had mental health issues who did not support independence during the last referendum campaign...

[weecounty hibby]

Yawn, your pathetic...Yoon is a derogatory term for Unionists and other term was a discrition for a former SNP leader. But it's ok in your book to use insults and swear at anyone who disagrees
No insults, i'll make it even clearer for you. It is pathetic for anyone to use that term. Even more so to claim they are doing it as a comeback for Yoon. And to claim Yoon is offensive is, as has been said earlier akin to the rangers fans claiming the term hun is as bad as Taig, terrier etc.

[weecounty hibby]

It was made specifically to look like loon, as in people had mental health issues who did not support independence during the last referendum campaign...
Now you are 100% making stuff up to justify your disgraceful comments

[ronaldo7]

It was made specifically to look like loon, as in people had mental health issues who did not support independence during the last referendum campaign...

I thought a loon was someone from the North East?

Are you saying they all have mental health issues?

You've maybe seen something on one of those Military boards you frequent, but Yoon has nothing to do with Mental health issues.

https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/fous-yer-dous-loons-and-quines-and-other-doric-masterpieces-2463707

[The Modfather]

Do people get worked up about things like yoon/snazi/nat in the real world? Or is the kind of petty nonsense restricted to the virtual world?

[weecounty hibby]

Do people get worked up about things like yoon/snazi/nat in the real world? Or is the kind of petty nonsense restricted to the virtual world?

I don't mind nat, short for nationalist. I wouldn't mind Yoon, short for unionist. I do take exception to snazi and would in the real world too

[Radium]

Goodwin would be proud that much of the recent content, proves his law


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[Ozyhibby]

I got a Conservative campaign leaflet through the door the other day. The whole thing was about stopping the SNP and preventing a referendum, no reference to actual policy. And they accuse the SNP of being obsessed with independence?

Why would they need to stop the SNP to prevent another indyref if Johnson is going to refuse it anyway?


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[weecounty hibby]

Goodwin would be proud that much of the recent content, proves his law


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Maybe only half of his law. The first part is right aboutbthteaf length but the thread is still going. It is a very interesting theory though

[Jones28]

Enough of the Yoon pish ...you Nats get upset when described as Snazi's

Gee I wonder what could be so upsetting about that...

[JeMeSouviens]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but hey ho: https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1364864367121022977

That’s brilliant. :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

That’s brilliant. :greengrin

At the risk of inviting the same criticism as on the Salmond thread, it has something for everyone in it...

[CloudSquall]

I don't fancy our chances in any future war if ex members of our armed forces are now greetin' about playground names like "Yoon" :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

I don't fancy our chances in any future war if ex members of our armed forces are now greetin' about playground names like "Yoon" :greengrin
Gotta hope that Bh never finds out what all young people abbreviate 'University' to. His head will literally explode.

[CropleyWasGod]

Gotta hope that Bh never finds out what all young people abbreviate 'University' to. His head will literally explode.

Whatever happened to "varsity"?

Standards today.....

[lucky]

Surely any term that posters find offensive regardless of the subject has to moderated on? Threads have been closed down for a lot less on here and posts have been removed. Emotions run high on politics and independence. The majority on here support independence and it can be difficult for people who don’t have that view.

[Peevemor]

Surely any term that posters find offensive regardless of the subject has to moderated on? Threads have been closed down for a lot less on here and posts have been removed. Emotions run high on politics and independence. The majority on here support independence and it can be difficult for people who don’t have that view.

I'd be very disappointed if the admins view "yoon" and "snazi" as similarly offensive.

[Keith_M]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but hey ho: https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1364864367121022977



That's brilliant

:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Surely any term that posters find offensive regardless of the subject has to moderated on? Threads have been closed down for a lot less on here and posts have been removed. Emotions run high on politics and independence. The majority on here support independence and it can be difficult for people who don’t have that view.

So if I say that I find the term "Nat" offensive, as I'm an independence supporter, will that be moderated on?

Where does it end?

Yoon is a shortened rhyming slang for Unionist.

[Jack]

Can I ask a moderator possibly "Pretty Boy" to decide what is and isn't acceptable terms and then we abide by the decision

I can recall during the last referendum campaign the yoons on here and elsewhere got upset when they were described as quislings. Those using the term stopped using it on these forums accepting the term had connotations that went beyond what was acceptable here. I dare say calling unionists quizlings is still rife in the pits of the internet.

Likewise I suspect the term you use is a common one that has surfaced from the sleazy depths of unionists chat rooms. Like quisling it has no place on what is predominantly a football forum frequented by younger impressionable souls.

Yoon on the other hand has and continues to be used in the mass print media and has also been mentioned, without rebuke, on the TV. If that changes then its use here, without whinging from unionists, can be reconsidered.

Your conflation between the words snazi and yoon is a disgraceful tactic by you to use a term which you know and use to be offensive.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m not offended by any of these names and try not to use them. They’re a bit silly. They say more about the people who use them IMO. Each to their own though, so crack on as far as I’m concerned.


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[StevieC]

Why would they need to stop the SNP to prevent another indyref if Johnson is going to refuse it anyway?

Either they don't trust Boris or they've no other policies to fill up an A4 sized leaflet?

[Future17]

I’m not offended by any of these names and try not to use them. They’re a bit silly. They say more about the people who use them IMO. Each to their own though, so crack on as far as I’m concerned.


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That's kinda where I am with this although, to be more accurate, I think the use of terms like "Yoon" and "Snazi" in a post makes me less likely to read it all and certainly less likely to give it the same consideration as I would absent those terms. It's playground stuff to me.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

That's kinda where I am with this although, to be more accurate, I think the use of terms like "Yoon" and "Snazi" in a post makes me less likely to read it all and certainly less likely to give it the same consideration as I would absent those terms. It's playground stuff to me.

Well said, very childish and to the point that I actively scroll past certain posters. They dont merit my consideration.

[One Day Soon]

That's kinda where I am with this although, to be more accurate, I think the use of terms like "Yoon" and "Snazi" in a post makes me less likely to read it all and certainly less likely to give it the same consideration as I would absent those terms. It's playground stuff to me.


How about we just agree to use the terms Unionist and Nationalist? Neither is pejorative, both are accurate and both allow posters not to be scrolled past.

[JeMeSouviens]

How about we just agree to use the terms Unionist and Nationalist? Neither is pejorative, both are accurate and both allow posters not to be scrolled past.

We'd have to agree on definitions first. I am a nationalist in that I think Scotland should be a country. I'm not a nationalist in the sense that I think the Scottish nation or its people are better than any other nation or its people.

Mind you, I don't really care if I get called an actual Nazi, so whatevs really.

[One Day Soon]

We'd have to agree on definitions first. I am a nationalist in that I think Scotland should be a country. I'm not a nationalist in the sense that I think the Scottish nation or its people are better than any other nation or its people.

Mind you, I don't really care if I get called an actual Nazi, so whatevs really.


I'm changing my mind, Unionist is too pejorative and has too many negative connotations. I'm politically self-IDing as pro-UK. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm changing my mind, Unionist is too pejorative and has too many negative connotations. I'm politically self-IDing as pro-UK. :wink:

Does that rhyme with dook or howk? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Does that rhyme with dook or howk? :wink:

Rhymes with stick 😆

[Moulin Yarns]

An independent Scotland can

🌊 Lead Europe in renewable energy
☮️Lead nuclear disarmament by leaving NATO
✊🏿 Lead on equality and workers' rights

Vote for the Scotland you want. Vote Green #GreenYes https://t.co/Ue70EHkaaN

I wonder what the derogatory term will be for someone who supports them?

[One Day Soon]

Rhymes with stick 😆


As opposed to something that rhymes with twat? :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

As opposed to something that rhymes with twat? :wink:
😆

Like West Side Story. The pricks and the twats.
Face off against each other in the Queens Park with pirouettes and grands jetes.

[Just Alf]

An independent Scotland can

[emoji305] Lead Europe in renewable energy
[emoji3522]Lead nuclear disarmament by leaving NATO
[emoji1535] Lead on equality and workers' rights

Vote for the Scotland you want. Vote Green #GreenYes https://t.co/Ue70EHkaaN

I wonder what the derogatory term will be for someone who supports them?You don't need to have nuclear weapons to be in NATO, not sure that's a vote winner?

Fair enough to have removal of the weapons on the ticket but leaving NATO?

(They'll still be my number 2 at voting time)




Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

😆

Like West Side Story. The pricks and the twats.
Face off against each other in the Queens Park with pirouettes and grands jetes.


I think we might be on to something here.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210227/6b169b1283fbc26aa682b92bb706e783.jpg

Policing looking good for the SNP in May’s elections.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Glory Lurker]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210227/6b169b1283fbc26aa682b92bb706e783.jpg

Policing looking good for the SNP in May’s elections.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No chance. New Statesman bigging it up to make anything less a failure. BUT SNP 70 Greens 10? Oh, okay then :-)

[lapsedhibee]

Rawnsley in The Observer today:

If anything, the risks that come with one-party hegemony are amplified in a country with a population similar in size to that of Yorkshire and where everyone in public life knows everyone else.

I think this means that Scotland is too wee to properly govern itself. Oh well.

[Jones28]

Rawnsley in The Observer today:

If anything, the risks that come with one-party hegemony are amplified in a country with a population similar in size to that of Yorkshire and where everyone in public life knows everyone else.

I think this means that Scotland is too wee to properly govern itself. Oh well.

Too wee and too parochial.

[degenerated]

Rawnsley in The Observer today:

If anything, the risks that come with one-party hegemony are amplified in a country with a population similar in size to that of Yorkshire and where everyone in public life knows everyone else.

I think this means that Scotland is too wee to properly govern itself. Oh well.Does that mean we need to make it bigger, Newcastle and Carlisle would be a start [emoji16]

[Ozyhibby]

First poll at 50-50 for a long time. It is survation though which is not that yes friendly a pollster.

https://t.co/fvaqVHTzks


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[Mr Grieves]

First poll at 50-50 for a long time. It is survation though which is not that yes friendly a pollster.

https://t.co/fvaqVHTzks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The last survation poll had Yes 45 No 43 undecided 12. This one is Yes 43 No 44 undecided 13, its all within margin of error so I think they're pushing it by claiming it's a bombshell survey.

[Smartie]

Would anyone expect anything different at this stage?

Johnson isn’t as offensive or the visibly incompetent as he has been over the past year. The SNP are going through a civil war of sorts.

This was always going to happen, the question was going to be about how much it would swing the other way.

[ronaldo7]

John McTernan, remember him...Tony's pal. Cosying up with Katie Perrior former advisor to Theresa, Boris, and David Davis. She seems to be advocating going to war with the Scots. The rhetoric is fairly ramping up in London.

https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1365783186953895937

[StevieC]

John McTernan, remember him...Tony's pal. Cosying up with Katie Perrior former advisor to Theresa, Boris, and David Davis. She seems to be advocating going to war with the Scots. The rhetoric is fairly ramping up in London.

https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1365783186953895937

I think that plastering everything with a union flag is an excellent idea. They should also force us to put it on the national team strips as well, just to fully cement the union. That’ll put these rebellious nats in their place.

[degenerated]

I think that plastering everything with a union flag is an excellent idea. They should also force us to put it on the national team strips as well, just to fully cement the union. That’ll put these rebellious nats in their place.Anything mcternan suggests is worth them running with. The guy has made a career out of being wrong about everything.

[Kato]

I think that plastering everything with a union flag is an excellent idea. They should also force us to put it on the national team strips as well, just to fully cement the union. That’ll put these rebellious nats in their place.Force kids in school to learn the words to The Sash. That'll bring us back into line.

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[Skol]

Force kids in school to learn the words to The Sash. That'll bring us back into line.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

That's really quite a poor comment putting people who dont agree with Independence into quite a narrow group.

[Kato]

That's really quite a poor comment putting people who dont agree with Independence into quite a narrow group.It's a joke bud, I'm not putting people anywhere but am ripping the pee out of the idea that plastering Scotland with the UJ would turn things around for the Union.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1366063132402147329

George Galloway proudly voting Tory.

[lord bunberry]

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1366063132402147329

George Galloway proudly voting Tory.
I’ve seen it all now.

[Mr Grieves]

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1366063132402147329

George Galloway proudly voting Tory.

:faf:

[cabbageandribs1875]

24401

[Ozyhibby]

It’s a nice little earner for Galloway. He has seen his latest little gap in the political market. Good luck to him. Hope he splits the unionist vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1366063132402147329

George Galloway proudly voting Tory.


https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1047582884129906688?s=19

Canny take the guy seriously

[degenerated]

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1047582884129906688?s=19

Canny take the guy seriouslyHe's just a grifter, now all his pals in the Middle East are gone he needs some way of lining his pockets.

[Mr Grieves]

First poll at 50-50 for a long time. It is survation though which is not that yes friendly a pollster.
90
https://t.co/fvaqVHTzks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1366291195153035264?s=19

Constituency vote:

SNP: 50%
Tories: 21%
Labour: 20%
LD: 7%
Other: 2%


Regional List:

SNP: 38%
Tories: 21%
Labour: 20%
Greens: 11%
LD: 8%

Slight drop for the SNP. Let's be honest, last week was bad for the SNP and this week probably won't be any better. The party desperately needs election campaigning to begin to forge some unity otherwise I can see that number dropping further.

[JeMeSouviens]

First poll at 50-50 for a long time. It is survation though which is not that yes friendly a pollster.

https://t.co/fvaqVHTzks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The last few polls would suggest Yes peaked and has fallen back maybe 4% or so? I guess the Salmond pish could take No back into the lead in the weeks ahead.

[G B Young]

Neil Mackay: The Yes movement has been corrupted by hate and conspiracy. I no longer recognise what it has become


THERE’S a shadow on the Yes movement’s soul. What was once hopeful and open has become laced with a strain of insular, divisive ugliness and hate.
Back in 2014, the Yes movement stood for forward-thinking optimism. Of course, there was still a nasty underbelly, mostly online – but then all political movements suffer from hate-mongers. The good outweighed the bad. Clearly, there was also ugliness within unionism too, and that remains.
However, today a strata of the Yes movement is mutating into something disturbing. I fear the good may soon be perceived to outweigh the bad.
Since long before devolution, Scotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/) has been growing ever more considerate and kinder as a nation. Today, it feels that if we haven’t quite started going in reverse, progress has certainly stalled. The cause and responsibility lie with the SNP’s mishandling of the broader Yes movement.
As someone drawn to the Yes movement because of its progressive positions – the hope that it offered an alternative, better world in the face of a broken Westminster system – it’s painful now to see that movement increasingly as an impediment to progress. To be clear: nearly all of these concerns stem (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/stem/) from the online world, but we must also recognise that the online world shapes public perception.
Read more: If the SNP oust Sturgeon it’s the beginning of the end for the party and independence (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18258696.neil-mackay-snp-oust-sturgeon-beginning-end-party-independence/)
There’s a strain, a minority, within the Yes movement that’s coming to dominate the independence conversation. It’s conspiratorial, angry, and hate is its medium. It has, perhaps, been rightly dubbed the "alt-nat" movement, reflecting the similarities it bears to the wider "alt-right" movement. It’s ultra-nationalist and both fuels, and is fuelled by, cruelty and division. As someone who has no truck with nationalism of any stripe, I find it a threat to Scotland’s better self.
Anti-English sentiment is blithely displayed. The conspiratorial mindset – the paranoid style– prevails. There’s a real sense of online radicalisation – of anyone who’s not a part of this hardline Yes movement fringe being an outright enemy, including moderate independence supporters. Insults like "traitor" are ubiquitous.
The media is hated. Questions are hated. Nuance is hated. Some, without irony, have even labelled part of this hardline strata Scotland’s QAnon. That takes the criticism too far – we’re not quite that deep in the realm of conspiracy yet – but the paranoia and hate do speak of an exceptionally dark worldview.
There’s constant denial of truth and facts. There’s intimidation, harassment, bullying. There’s been violence-laced rhetoric. There’s been talk of mimicking the Irish route to independence; of Catalonian-style "illegal" referendums. There’s been hatred towards women and minorities expressed. The Saltire-wrapped trappings of hardline nationalism loom large.
This increasingly dominant faction is the antithesis of the Yes movement I voted for. The SNP has allowed this splinter to fester within the broader Yes movement to a point where it’s starting to rot. Blame lies with the party, not the majority of independence supporters.
This dark side of the Yes movement has unquestionably grown strong amid the SNP’s civil wars. The irony that many in this fringe want to see the SNP, under Nicola Sturgeon, defeated is particularly illuminating.
The women in the Salmond case have been branded "witches". There’s been a menacing campaign of vitriol online and an obvious desire by some to see them named. Trans people – one of our smallest minorities – are a target for hate. A socially reactionary fringe is also beginning to coalesce within this hardline strata of the Yes movement, and seems to be finding its feet when it comes to undermining equality and respect.
Much of this hate and ugliness is encouraged and amplified by elected members of the SNP, and some performative commentators across the media. There’s a side to the Yes movement which is becoming unrecognisable to progressives and moderates.
If this moral change within a strata of the Yes movement is disturbing, from a realpolitik position it’s distinctly curious to see those in this faction, who oppose Ms Sturgeon, siding with hardline unionists and Conservatives. On Sunday, for the first time after 22 polls, support for Yes dipped to a place where it’s now locked 50-50 with No. This shouldn’t be surprising.
It’s not unusual that many moderate Yes voters wonder if these extremists really want to see Scotland independent, or are they just out to make their name and monetise the business (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/) of hate. What do they imagine they’re achieving?
Some now worry that if Ms Sturgeon were to go – quit or pushed – the SNP would morph into something deeply unpleasant. Given that it’ll inevitably be the SNP which leads Scotland to independence, should the nation so vote, that’s a worrying thought for reasonable Yes supporters. Some may reassure themselves by believing the SNP will fade post-independence. I can’t predict the future.
Read more: Why is the SNP ripping itself apart just as it starts to tackle the Covid crisis? (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18442052.neil-mackay-snp-ripping-apart-just-starts-tackle-covid-crisis/)
I’m not an "existential" Yes voter – independence isn’t about flag, destiny or identity for me. It’s about building a better, fairer country. A subsection of the Yes movement now feels like a Scottish version of America’s Tea Party movement, which paved the way for Donald Trump. America and England had their flirtation with nationalist extremism in the shape of Trump’s presidency and the antics of hardline Brexiteers. Perhaps it’s now Scotland’s turn. Such ugliness, though, isn’t what the Scottish people or nation want, deserve or need.
If and when the times comes for a second referendum, the Yes movement must stand, unified, for decency and respect. Good people need to reclaim the Yes movement from its dangerous fringe. The decent, grassroots voices of 2014 have been too quiet for too long. Silence has been filled with rage from the online realm, which is now starting to seep into the real world (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world_news/).
None of my criticisms are a rejection of the idea of independence – the political, philosophical bedrock of that position remains, although its spirit now risks being contaminated, and altered out of all recognition. My criticisms are a simple plea for the Yes movement to defend its principles – to reclaim its soul from the fringes – before it’s too late and the campaign for independence is corrupted to a point where it’s no longer salvageable.

[lapsedhibee]

Neil Mackay: The Yes movement has been corrupted by hate and conspiracy. I no longer recognise what it has become


THERE’S a shadow on the Yes movement’s soul. What was once hopeful and open has become laced with a strain of insular, divisive ugliness and hate.
Back in 2014, the Yes movement stood for forward-thinking optimism. Of course, there was still a nasty underbelly, mostly online – but then all political movements suffer from hate-mongers. The good outweighed the bad. Clearly, there was also ugliness within unionism too, and that remains.
However, today a strata of the Yes movement is mutating into something disturbing. I fear the good may soon be perceived to outweigh the bad.
Since long before devolution, Scotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/) has been growing ever more considerate and kinder as a nation. Today, it feels that if we haven’t quite started going in reverse, progress has certainly stalled. The cause and responsibility lie with the SNP’s mishandling of the broader Yes movement.
As someone drawn to the Yes movement because of its progressive positions – the hope that it offered an alternative, better world in the face of a broken Westminster system – it’s painful now to see that movement increasingly as an impediment to progress. To be clear: nearly all of these concerns stem (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/stem/) from the online world, but we must also recognise that the online world shapes public perception.
Read more: If the SNP oust Sturgeon it’s the beginning of the end for the party and independence (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18258696.neil-mackay-snp-oust-sturgeon-beginning-end-party-independence/)
There’s a strain, a minority, within the Yes movement that’s coming to dominate the independence conversation. It’s conspiratorial, angry, and hate is its medium. It has, perhaps, been rightly dubbed the "alt-nat" movement, reflecting the similarities it bears to the wider "alt-right" movement. It’s ultra-nationalist and both fuels, and is fuelled by, cruelty and division. As someone who has no truck with nationalism of any stripe, I find it a threat to Scotland’s better self.
Anti-English sentiment is blithely displayed. The conspiratorial mindset – the paranoid style– prevails. There’s a real sense of online radicalisation – of anyone who’s not a part of this hardline Yes movement fringe being an outright enemy, including moderate independence supporters. Insults like "traitor" are ubiquitous.
The media is hated. Questions are hated. Nuance is hated. Some, without irony, have even labelled part of this hardline strata Scotland’s QAnon. That takes the criticism too far – we’re not quite that deep in the realm of conspiracy yet – but the paranoia and hate do speak of an exceptionally dark worldview.
There’s constant denial of truth and facts. There’s intimidation, harassment, bullying. There’s been violence-laced rhetoric. There’s been talk of mimicking the Irish route to independence; of Catalonian-style "illegal" referendums. There’s been hatred towards women and minorities expressed. The Saltire-wrapped trappings of hardline nationalism loom large.
This increasingly dominant faction is the antithesis of the Yes movement I voted for. The SNP has allowed this splinter to fester within the broader Yes movement to a point where it’s starting to rot. Blame lies with the party, not the majority of independence supporters.
This dark side of the Yes movement has unquestionably grown strong amid the SNP’s civil wars. The irony that many in this fringe want to see the SNP, under Nicola Sturgeon, defeated is particularly illuminating.
The women in the Salmond case have been branded "witches". There’s been a menacing campaign of vitriol online and an obvious desire by some to see them named. Trans people – one of our smallest minorities – are a target for hate. A socially reactionary fringe is also beginning to coalesce within this hardline strata of the Yes movement, and seems to be finding its feet when it comes to undermining equality and respect.
Much of this hate and ugliness is encouraged and amplified by elected members of the SNP, and some performative commentators across the media. There’s a side to the Yes movement which is becoming unrecognisable to progressives and moderates.
If this moral change within a strata of the Yes movement is disturbing, from a realpolitik position it’s distinctly curious to see those in this faction, who oppose Ms Sturgeon, siding with hardline unionists and Conservatives. On Sunday, for the first time after 22 polls, support for Yes dipped to a place where it’s now locked 50-50 with No. This shouldn’t be surprising.
It’s not unusual that many moderate Yes voters wonder if these extremists really want to see Scotland independent, or are they just out to make their name and monetise the business (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/) of hate. What do they imagine they’re achieving?
Some now worry that if Ms Sturgeon were to go – quit or pushed – the SNP would morph into something deeply unpleasant. Given that it’ll inevitably be the SNP which leads Scotland to independence, should the nation so vote, that’s a worrying thought for reasonable Yes supporters. Some may reassure themselves by believing the SNP will fade post-independence. I can’t predict the future.
Read more: Why is the SNP ripping itself apart just as it starts to tackle the Covid crisis? (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18442052.neil-mackay-snp-ripping-apart-just-starts-tackle-covid-crisis/)
I’m not an "existential" Yes voter – independence isn’t about flag, destiny or identity for me. It’s about building a better, fairer country. A subsection of the Yes movement now feels like a Scottish version of America’s Tea Party movement, which paved the way for Donald Trump. America and England had their flirtation with nationalist extremism in the shape of Trump’s presidency and the antics of hardline Brexiteers. Perhaps it’s now Scotland’s turn. Such ugliness, though, isn’t what the Scottish people or nation want, deserve or need.
If and when the times comes for a second referendum, the Yes movement must stand, unified, for decency and respect. Good people need to reclaim the Yes movement from its dangerous fringe. The decent, grassroots voices of 2014 have been too quiet for too long. Silence has been filled with rage from the online realm, which is now starting to seep into the real world (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world_news/).
None of my criticisms are a rejection of the idea of independence – the political, philosophical bedrock of that position remains, although its spirit now risks being contaminated, and altered out of all recognition. My criticisms are a simple plea for the Yes movement to defend its principles – to reclaim its soul from the fringes – before it’s too late and the campaign for independence is corrupted to a point where it’s no longer salvageable.

Stopped reading at "a strata". Can you post something by someone that can write in proper English next time?

[CropleyWasGod]

Stopped reading at "a strata". Can you post something by someone that can write in proper English next time?

Or Latin 😁

[StevieC]

Stopped reading at "a strata". Can you post something by someone that can write in proper English next time?

I agree, not a writing style that will be enjoyed by most .. but .. a lot of the points made are quite valid (which surprised me in a post from Mr Young).

What I would disagree with though, is how much influence he is attributing to the “lunatic fringe”. There is always an element of an “online bubble” with these things, in so much as people within the bubble seem to think that it’s influencing more people than it actually is.

The article is correct when it talks of the ultra-nationalists, and possibly may not be way off the mark when it talks of their hatred (although that seems a bit steep from my experiences). The 13 or so percentage of undecideds, that cause the swings in the yes/no polls, may well be influenced (negatively) by some of the ultra views (if they find themselves in that particular bubble at some point) .. but no where near as influenced as they will be from the MSM.

[Ozyhibby]

They are a tiny minority who really only exist online. Their support within the party is minimal although Angus McNeil is always willing to amplify their views. The vast majority of SNP members support sturgeon and that will show over the coming weeks. This lot might set us back in going for a 2nd Indy ref but it won’t stop independence. That is going to happen no matter what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

They are a tiny minority who really only exist online. Their support within the party is minimal although Angus McNeil is always willing to amplify their views. The vast majority of SNP members support sturgeon and that will show over the coming weeks. This lot might set us back in going for a 2nd Indy ref but it won’t stop independence. That is going to happen no matter what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For context, Neil Mackay has recently had to endure a Wings attack piece, and the inevitable twitter fallout, which accused him of being a Loyalist (as in Ulster, he's from NI) entyrist trying to bring Yes down for reasons of Orange conspiracy or something. :rolleyes:

[Kato]

Neil Mackay: The Yes movement has been corrupted by hate and conspiracy. I no longer recognise what it has become



Replace "Yes Movement" with "Brexit movement" and that's very accurate.

[CloudSquall]

The problem with Neil Mackay is he has been weirdly trying to sook up to unionists with attention seeking "look at me criticising the yes side!!!!" styled articles. Not to say that the SNP and Yes shouldn't be criticised, but it's like he is/was trying to purposely get pats on the back from the no side.



In terms of Yes sliding in the polls for me it comes down to a combination of the below,


A reduction in Brexit catastrophy news
Vaccine roll out in the UK vs EU
Very little if any meat to the bones of an SNP plan for independence beyond "Boris is a dick"
The ongoing Sturgeon vs Salmond fued

[The Modfather]

Neil Mackay: The Yes movement has been corrupted by hate and conspiracy. I no longer recognise what it has become


THERE’S a shadow on the Yes movement’s soul. What was once hopeful and open has become laced with a strain of insular, divisive ugliness and hate.
Back in 2014, the Yes movement stood for forward-thinking optimism. Of course, there was still a nasty underbelly, mostly online – but then all political movements suffer from hate-mongers. The good outweighed the bad. Clearly, there was also ugliness within unionism too, and that remains.
However, today a strata of the Yes movement is mutating into something disturbing. I fear the good may soon be perceived to outweigh the bad.
Since long before devolution, Scotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/) has been growing ever more considerate and kinder as a nation. Today, it feels that if we haven’t quite started going in reverse, progress has certainly stalled. The cause and responsibility lie with the SNP’s mishandling of the broader Yes movement.
As someone drawn to the Yes movement because of its progressive positions – the hope that it offered an alternative, better world in the face of a broken Westminster system – it’s painful now to see that movement increasingly as an impediment to progress. To be clear: nearly all of these concerns stem (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/stem/) from the online world, but we must also recognise that the online world shapes public perception.
Read more: If the SNP oust Sturgeon it’s the beginning of the end for the party and independence (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18258696.neil-mackay-snp-oust-sturgeon-beginning-end-party-independence/)
There’s a strain, a minority, within the Yes movement that’s coming to dominate the independence conversation. It’s conspiratorial, angry, and hate is its medium. It has, perhaps, been rightly dubbed the "alt-nat" movement, reflecting the similarities it bears to the wider "alt-right" movement. It’s ultra-nationalist and both fuels, and is fuelled by, cruelty and division. As someone who has no truck with nationalism of any stripe, I find it a threat to Scotland’s better self.
Anti-English sentiment is blithely displayed. The conspiratorial mindset – the paranoid style– prevails. There’s a real sense of online radicalisation – of anyone who’s not a part of this hardline Yes movement fringe being an outright enemy, including moderate independence supporters. Insults like "traitor" are ubiquitous.
The media is hated. Questions are hated. Nuance is hated. Some, without irony, have even labelled part of this hardline strata Scotland’s QAnon. That takes the criticism too far – we’re not quite that deep in the realm of conspiracy yet – but the paranoia and hate do speak of an exceptionally dark worldview.
There’s constant denial of truth and facts. There’s intimidation, harassment, bullying. There’s been violence-laced rhetoric. There’s been talk of mimicking the Irish route to independence; of Catalonian-style "illegal" referendums. There’s been hatred towards women and minorities expressed. The Saltire-wrapped trappings of hardline nationalism loom large.
This increasingly dominant faction is the antithesis of the Yes movement I voted for. The SNP has allowed this splinter to fester within the broader Yes movement to a point where it’s starting to rot. Blame lies with the party, not the majority of independence supporters.
This dark side of the Yes movement has unquestionably grown strong amid the SNP’s civil wars. The irony that many in this fringe want to see the SNP, under Nicola Sturgeon, defeated is particularly illuminating.
The women in the Salmond case have been branded "witches". There’s been a menacing campaign of vitriol online and an obvious desire by some to see them named. Trans people – one of our smallest minorities – are a target for hate. A socially reactionary fringe is also beginning to coalesce within this hardline strata of the Yes movement, and seems to be finding its feet when it comes to undermining equality and respect.
Much of this hate and ugliness is encouraged and amplified by elected members of the SNP, and some performative commentators across the media. There’s a side to the Yes movement which is becoming unrecognisable to progressives and moderates.
If this moral change within a strata of the Yes movement is disturbing, from a realpolitik position it’s distinctly curious to see those in this faction, who oppose Ms Sturgeon, siding with hardline unionists and Conservatives. On Sunday, for the first time after 22 polls, support for Yes dipped to a place where it’s now locked 50-50 with No. This shouldn’t be surprising.
It’s not unusual that many moderate Yes voters wonder if these extremists really want to see Scotland independent, or are they just out to make their name and monetise the business (https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/) of hate. What do they imagine they’re achieving?
Some now worry that if Ms Sturgeon were to go – quit or pushed – the SNP would morph into something deeply unpleasant. Given that it’ll inevitably be the SNP which leads Scotland to independence, should the nation so vote, that’s a worrying thought for reasonable Yes supporters. Some may reassure themselves by believing the SNP will fade post-independence. I can’t predict the future.
Read more: Why is the SNP ripping itself apart just as it starts to tackle the Covid crisis? (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18442052.neil-mackay-snp-ripping-apart-just-starts-tackle-covid-crisis/)
I’m not an "existential" Yes voter – independence isn’t about flag, destiny or identity for me. It’s about building a better, fairer country. A subsection of the Yes movement now feels like a Scottish version of America’s Tea Party movement, which paved the way for Donald Trump. America and England had their flirtation with nationalist extremism in the shape of Trump’s presidency and the antics of hardline Brexiteers. Perhaps it’s now Scotland’s turn. Such ugliness, though, isn’t what the Scottish people or nation want, deserve or need.
If and when the times comes for a second referendum, the Yes movement must stand, unified, for decency and respect. Good people need to reclaim the Yes movement from its dangerous fringe. The decent, grassroots voices of 2014 have been too quiet for too long. Silence has been filled with rage from the online realm, which is now starting to seep into the real world (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world_news/).
None of my criticisms are a rejection of the idea of independence – the political, philosophical bedrock of that position remains, although its spirit now risks being contaminated, and altered out of all recognition. My criticisms are a simple plea for the Yes movement to defend its principles – to reclaim its soul from the fringes – before it’s too late and the campaign for independence is corrupted to a point where it’s no longer salvageable.


I’d take the article as balanced if he also delved into “there was also ugliness in unionism, that remains”. Seems he’s focussed on the extreme minority, and probably accurately called them out, but conflated the lunatic minority with the wider movement.

[Kato]

extreme minority


That's why I thought the sentiments in the article were more like Brexit voters, although they have an extreme majority. Where Anti-Brexit Tory voters facilitated their extremists, I doubt the majority of Yes voters hold the views covered in the article.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/scotland-could-become-the-eu-s-next-great-problem/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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[Kato]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/scotland-could-become-the-eu-s-next-great-problem/amp?__twitter_impression=true


Comes under the "don't throw me in that briar patch" category.

[degenerated]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/scotland-could-become-the-eu-s-next-great-problem/amp?__twitter_impression=true


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI stopped reading when I got the phrase splitting country. I should have known with it being thr spectator.

[G B Young]

Stopped reading at "a strata". Can you post something by someone that can write in proper English next time?

What's 'proper English?'

[lapsedhibee]

What's 'proper English?'

Where people are able to make the fine distinction between singular and plural words.

[allmodcons]

The last few polls would suggest Yes peaked and has fallen back maybe 4% or so? I guess the Salmond pish could take No back into the lead in the weeks ahead.

The current poll of polls on Scot Goes Pop has Yes at 51.6% and No 48.4%

The latest poll by Survation (conducted on behalf of the rag that is the Sunday Mail) showing 50% Yes and 50% No, represented a swing of 1% from Survation's previous poll.

Of course, the Sunday Mail headline equated this to massive shift in opinion, simply re-affirming my point on another thread that our media is ****ing joke.

[JeMeSouviens]

The current poll of polls on Scot Goes Pop has Yes at 51.6% and No 48.4%

The latest poll by Survation (conducted on behalf of the rag that is the Sunday Mail) showing 50% Yes and 50% No, represented a swing of 1% from Survation's previous poll.

Of course, the Sunday Mail headline equated this to massive shift in opinion, simply re-affirming my point on another thread that our media is ****ing joke.







Yes, but Survation peaked at 54% Y. Ipsos MORI at 58 but most recent was 52. One poll dropping 1% is nothing. A slew of polls dropping a small amount is a trend.

[Crunchie]

They are a tiny minority who really only exist online. Their support within the party is minimal although Angus McNeil is always willing to amplify their views. The vast majority of SNP members support sturgeon and that will show over the coming weeks. This lot might set us back in going for a 2nd Indy ref but it won’t stop independence. That is going to happen no matter what.


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I admire your blind faith and confidence, I personally don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hell we will see Independence.

[lord bunberry]

I admire your blind faith and confidence, I personally don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hell we will see Independence.
There’s nothing blind about it.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I admire your blind faith and confidence, I personally don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hell we will see Independence.

I've been a supporter of Independence since the 70's and I've said to many people 2014 was our chance. We blew it because too many people were swayed by project fear. If you think that was bad wait until you see the tidal wave of negativity from UK government and MSM this time which has started already.

[Ryan91]

I've been a supporter of Independence since the 70's and I've said to many people 2014 was our chance. We blew it because too many people were swayed by project fear. If you think that was bad wait until you see the tidal wave of negativity from UK government and MSM this time which has started already.

The EU membership stuff was a deal breaker for many, self included and lead to me voting No in 2014. Now they've not got any of that and we've had the EU saying they'd welcome an independent Scotland.

In addition it is increasingly clear that WM doesn't care about Scotland and the desires of the people living here and that this so-called "Union of Equals" is quite clearly bollocks.

Traditional media outlets and WM can try to paint a grim picture of an independent Scotland, but even then I think that people are more willing to take their chances with IndyScotland as opposed to one as part of the UK.

[Colr]

He's just a grifter, now all his pals in the Middle East are gone he needs some way of lining his pockets.

The big question about Galloway is whether he is now a Unionist shill or a Russian shill now he is no longer an Arabic shill.

[Colr]

The EU membership stuff was a deal breaker for many, self included and lead to me voting No in 2014. Now they've not got any of that and we've had the EU saying they'd welcome an independent Scotland.

In addition it is increasingly clear that WM doesn't care about Scotland and the desires of the people living here and that this so-called "Union of Equals" is quite clearly bollocks.

Traditional media outlets and WM can try to paint a grim picture of an independent Scotland, but even then I think that people are more willing to take their chances with IndyScotland as opposed to one as part of the UK.
This is where I am now, not to mention the non-appearence of the additional powers Cameron promised and the English desire to reverse devolution and centralise more.

[Ryan91]

This is where I am now, not to mention the non-appearence of the additional powers Cameron promised and the English desire to reverse devolution and centralise more.

Forgot to say also that young people tend to get more of their news from non-traditional sources and tend to be more wary of "Fake News". Traditional media will have a hard time reaching them and changing their views as younger folks are probably more likely to vote YES in the next IndyRef.

[heretoday]

So who's going to take over from Nicola if she has to stand down? Is there anyone who could command her kind of popularity in the SNP?

[Callum_62]

So who's going to take over from Nicola if she has to stand down? Is there anyone who could command her kind of popularity in the SNP?I don't think that's going to be an issue in the short term

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[Moulin Yarns]

So who's going to take over from Nicola if she has to stand down? Is there anyone who could command her kind of popularity in the SNP?

Not worth answering a hypothetical question.

[Just Alf]

So who's going to take over from Nicola if she has to stand down? Is there anyone who could command her kind of popularity in the SNP?
I don't think that's going to be an issue in the short term

Sent from my VOG-L29 using TapatalkIF independence was delivered with Nicola still around I'd bet a large amount that she'd be the 1st PM of the newly independent nation, after that IMHO the games up, and I could see a newly relevant Labour party in the mix with SNP being pushed into 2nd, even 3rd place.

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[duffers]

IF independence was delivered with Nicola still around I'd bet a large amount that she'd be the 1st PM of the newly independent nation, after that IMHO the games up, and I could see a newly relevant Labour party in the mix with SNP being pushed into 2nd, even 3rd place.

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I think most independence supporters would take that. I’m not a massive Sturgeon or SNP fan, but I would vote for independence with the view of getting a strong Labour Party in charge soon after. Scotland is a working class country so it is seriously worrying the amount of centre left voters who will be voting for DRoss just to go against the SNP and independence

[Ozyhibby]

I think most independence supporters would take that. I’m not a massive Sturgeon or SNP fan, but I would vote for independence with the view of getting a strong Labour Party in charge soon after. Scotland is a working class country so it is seriously worrying the amount of centre left voters who will be voting for DRoss just to go against the SNP and independence

It would take a bit longer before we saw a strong Labour Party simply because the organisation has atrophied so much. And I think it’s more likely that the SNP become Scotland centre left party v a reconstituted Scottish Tories.


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[weecounty hibby]

Large numbers of people joining the SNP today apparently. Unionist parties have perhaps over estimated how the AS situation could help them topple the government and SNP

[Ozyhibby]

Large numbers of people joining the SNP today apparently. Unionist parties have perhaps over estimated how the AS situation could help them topple the government and SNP

My mother in law was telling my wife this afternoon that she said the whole thing looked like a witch hunt and that she was switching her vote in May to snp. I doubt she will ever change to yes but it’s a small step. She has always been anti snp.


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[degenerated]

The big question about Galloway is whether he is now a Unionist shill or a Russian shill now he is no longer an Arabic shill.The only thing we can be absolutely sure of is that he is a shill.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156949500_3865867533478242_5347756346089321821_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=-hDMY834maAAX-4dnAA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=2dd2950250b5f5c62fa43d4b2b795cc1&oe=60669BF0

[Santa Cruz]

Large numbers of people joining the SNP today apparently. Unionist parties have perhaps over estimated how the AS situation could help them topple the government and SNP

Large number of new recruits to the Labour Youth branch of the party. My daughter's just of a zoom meeting with Anas Sarwar and even Jackie Baillie popped in to welcome them straight after her long day. The Youth vote is the future and not many politicians underestimate the importance of that.

[DaveF]

Large number of new recruits to the Labour Youth branch of the party. My daughter's just of a zoom meeting with Anas Sarwar and even Jackie Baillie popped in to welcome them straight after her long day. The Youth vote is the future and not many politicians underestimate the importance of that.

Lol, I await GBY confirming large numbers of youths joining the the conservative party 😂

[Santa Cruz]

Lol, I await GBY confirming large numbers of youths joining the the conservative party 😂

When has that ever happened in Scotland?

[DaveF]

When has that ever happened in Scotland?

I clearly wasn't being serious. A slight poke at your post so quickly on the back of the supposed SNP pick up, that's all.

[The Harp Awakes]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156949500_3865867533478242_5347756346089321821_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=-hDMY834maAAX-4dnAA&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=2dd2950250b5f5c62fa43d4b2b795cc1&oe=60669BF0

Maybe this has all been a cunning plan by Salmond to embolden NS, the SNP and the independence movement :greengrin

[Santa Cruz]

I clearly wasn't being serious. A slight poke at your post so quickly on the back of the supposed SNP pick up, that's all.

Nae probs. I think it's brilliant that young folk are interested in politics.

[Hibrandenburg]

Large number of new recruits to the Labour Youth branch of the party. My daughter's just of a zoom meeting with Anas Sarwar and even Jackie Baillie popped in to welcome them straight after her long day. The Youth vote is the future and not many politicians underestimate the importance of that.

Fantastic, an independent Scotland needs a strong socialist party, maybe Scottish Labour will find some talented young politicians amongst the youth, by god they need it.

[Just Alf]

Nae probs. I think it's brilliant that young folk are interested in politics.Agreed, and FWIW I thought Anas came across well at Holyrood yesterday, I can see him making a difference for Labour.



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[Future17]

Large number of new recruits to the Labour Youth branch of the party. My daughter's just of a zoom meeting with Anas Sarwar and even Jackie Baillie popped in to welcome them straight after her long day. The Youth vote is the future and not many politicians underestimate the importance of that.

That's interesting if true - do you know what kind of numbers we're talking about?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/78f2c5d13f7b8bcbbd331d5bd2e885a2.jpg
Yes back on top.[emoji106]


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[CloudSquall]

With 40% of Scottish Labour in favour of independence and the overwhelming majority of younger voters in favour of independence I welcome the addition of thousands of young independentistas in the Labour party :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/78f2c5d13f7b8bcbbd331d5bd2e885a2.jpg
Yes back on top.[emoji106]


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Support for Welsh independence and Irish reunification rising as well.
https://twitter.com/grahamlaurie1/status/1367431028634251266?s=21

[JeMeSouviens]

39% for Welsh Indy.:shocked:

If they get there first I am going to be throwing my toys right out the pram! :grr:

[JeMeSouviens]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/78f2c5d13f7b8bcbbd331d5bd2e885a2.jpg
Yes back on top.[emoji106]


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Actually, the fieldwork for this poll was done before the Survation one. :greengrin

Also, another poll confirming a drop from the Yes peak. I think Savanta had a 58Y just before Christmas.

[weecounty hibby]

39% for Welsh Indy.:shocked:

If they get there first I am going to be throwing my toys right out the pram! :grr:
³
They have an advantage over us that they don't have the baggage that comes with certain football teams and the flow of people from Scotland to NI and vice versa. The movement is also being led by Yes Cymru and there isn't the hatred of Plaid Cymru that we see with some againstvthe SNP. I have Welsh friends and in laws and it is interest to see how the MSM in Wales is now going after the indy folk there. Very similar narrative to what they say about Scotland.

[MartinfaePorty]

Saw a lot of stuff on Twitter last night about folk joining the SNP and took it with a slight pinch of salt. But then l I saw a friend on Facebook, who has never really been political in that way, post something to say that she has joined up. Unless some really major new evidence appears I think the worst is over, for the SNP.

[CloudSquall]

Major kudos to Sturgeon if she comes out of this (potentially) leading the SNP to a majority in the election with independence still in the lead in the polls, all the while gaining new SNP members.


It seems like the Salmond/Cherry wing of the SNP isn't as big as what Twitter makes it look like.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-poll-uk-23605922.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true


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[CloudSquall]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-poll-uk-23605922.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true


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Would love to know the thought process of the +/- 20% of people who think "we'd be better off independent but I'm still voting no".


That's not a dig at them, I'd be geniunely interested to know what is stopping them from voting yes now and what they are looking for.

[Just Alf]

Would love to know the thought process of the +/- 20% of people who think "we'd be better off independent but I'm still voting no".


That's not a dig at them, I'd be geniunely interested to know what is stopping them from voting yes now and what they are looking for.That a really good question, I was wondering exactly that.

Might be they think the journey from where the country is just now until it's sitting pretty as an independent nation will be too long and difficult to make up for the ultimate benefits?

Debates in that area could well be one of the big battlegrounds in any future referendum.




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[JeMeSouviens]

Would love to know the thought process of the +/- 20% of people who think "we'd be better off independent but I'm still voting no".


That's not a dig at them, I'd be geniunely interested to know what is stopping them from voting yes now and what they are looking for.

It's possible there is a much larger slice of "don't know"s for that question and the results are being expressed excluding DKs. eg.

Should Scotland be Independent? Y 50 N 44 DK 6 - gives Y 53 N 47

Would Scotland fare better? Y 42 N 18 DK 40 - gives Y 70 N 30

Generally, you get much larger numbers of DK for questions people are not used to being asked. We need the actual data tables to be sure.

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh no, i'm not sure which way to vote now

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157001677_4033119383411486_3925671707830129665_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Edl7vJkoWd8AX_P5ndp&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=9a78ae6064353e95f414c0d648ddefa8&oe=60665B60

[CloudSquall]

Weren't the Orange Order promising civil war in 2014 if Yes won?

Quite a turnaround.

[Moulin Yarns]

oh no, i'm not sure which way to vote now

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157001677_4033119383411486_3925671707830129665_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Edl7vJkoWd8AX_P5ndp&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=9a78ae6064353e95f414c0d648ddefa8&oe=60665B60

That has to be used by the SNP, particularly in the central belt. 🤣

[cabbageandribs1875]

Weren't the Orange Order promising civil war in 2014 if Yes won?

Quite a turnaround.

i'm quite sure the tories would help fund any unrest


That has to be used by the SNP, particularly in the central belt. ��


in the meantime they need to use this on T-shirts



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkIJTlWQAsWtR5?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Moulin Yarns]

i'm quite sure the tories would help fund any unrest




in the meantime they need to use this on T-shirts



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkIJTlWQAsWtR5?format=jpg&name=900x900

👍🤣

[Kato]

oh no, i'm not sure which way to vote now

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157001677_4033119383411486_3925671707830129665_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Edl7vJkoWd8AX_P5ndp&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=9a78ae6064353e95f414c0d648ddefa8&oe=60665B60Another briar patch I cant wait to be thrown onto.

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[Berwickhibby]

On a cheerier note I had a right good laugh on a link to the half wit from "Wings over Bath" as he slates the SNP and threatens people on his page.... :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

On a cheerier note I had a right good laugh on a link to the half wit from "Wings over Bath" as he slates the SNP and threatens people on his page.... :greengrin

I've recently been reading about Frederick Boothby, the self-styled leader of the Tartan Army in the 70's. They were so radical, that they were expelled from the SNP, which was pretty left-wing in those days.

Many think that he was planted by MI5, to undermine the independence movement.

There are parallels with the Rev. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

oh no, i'm not sure which way to vote now

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157001677_4033119383411486_3925671707830129665_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Edl7vJkoWd8AX_P5ndp&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=9a78ae6064353e95f414c0d648ddefa8&oe=60665B60


That's me convinced.

[Berwickhibby]

I've recently been reading about Frederick Boothby, the self-styled leader of the Tartan Army in the 70's. They were so radical, that they were expelled from the SNP, which was pretty left-wing in those days.

Many think that he was planted by MI5, to undermine the independence movement.

There are parallels with the Rev. :greengrin

Na, I have always considered Campbell a parasite, leach with his constant go Fund me begging bowl out to fund his lifestyle

[CropleyWasGod]

Na, I have always considered Campbell a parasite, leach with his constant go Fund me begging bowl out to fund his lifestyle

... which is what Boothby was.

Ultimately, he got caught organising a bank raid when they were running out of cash. He only got 3 years....... :rolleyes:

[Berwickhibby]

... which is what Boothby was.

Ultimately, he got caught organising a bank raid when they were running out of cash. He only got 3 years....... :rolleyes:

I had to google Boothby as I had never heard of him.... both him and Campbell are/were 🔔Ends

[CloudSquall]

With the position of the Wings Over Scotland blog during the first referendum he had the chance to play some sort of role in the 2nd referendum or at least have a big influence but he f'd it all up with his weird over the top obsession of the Trans rights issue and his hatred for anyone on the other side of that debate.


It's best for the Yes movement that it's been relegated to his personal hate blog about the trans issue (which does require debate but not in the way Campbell wants it).

[Kato]

With the position of the Wings Over Scotland blog during the first referendum he had the chance to play some sort of role in the 2nd referendum or at least have a big influence but he f'd it all up with his weird over the top obsession of the Trans rights issue and he's hatred for anyone on the other side of that debate.


It's best for the Yes movement that it's been relegated to his personal hate blog about the trans issue (which does require debate but not in the way Campbell wants it).Have only ever paid the slightest attention to the guy but he's always tended toward being an argumentative roaster.

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[Berwickhibby]

Have only ever paid the slightest attention to the guy but he's always tended toward being an argumentative roaster.

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Are you sitting down.... I agree with you 100 %

[CloudSquall]

Have only ever paid the slightest attention to the guy but he's always tended toward being an argumentative roaster.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


Yeah, and on second thoughts I think I was being too kind to his potential in a 2nd referendum given the controversy over his remarks years ago about Hillsborough (blaming the fans for pushing..) and generally f'ing and blinding at anyone who disagrees with him.

It's a shame in some sense as the blog did do a lot of good investigation in the lead up to the first referendum.

[Kato]

Are you sitting down.... I agree with you 100 %That's no shock BH. I bet we agree on more than his roasterdom.


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[weecounty hibby]

That's no shock BH. I bet we agree on more than his roasterdom.


Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
He is a pretty horrible human being. Regardless of his political leanings he is just disgusting. Also a total sponger, i feel sorry for anyone who has contributed to him in the past. I think he has managed to scam about 300k out of folk in the last couple of years.

[lord bunberry]

On a cheerier note I had a right good laugh on a link to the half wit from "Wings over Bath" as he slates the SNP and threatens people on his page.... :greengrin
I saw a screenshot from his Facebook page(he’s been relegated there after being banned from Twitter) and he was being his usual charming self, threatening people and insulting them.

[Kato]

He is a pretty horrible human being. Regardless of his political leanings he is just disgusting. Also a total sponger, i feel sorry for anyone who has contributed to him in the past. I think he has managed to scam about 300k out of folk in the last couple of years.

I wouldn't give him the fluff out my pocket.

[cabbageandribs1875]

this is something i would love moved from Scottish waters after independence, park them somewhere on the Thames and see if the locals fancy it.....

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157368796_1633214670199512_2105046358276106296_o.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MFqSz4yfwV8AX_S5quO&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=8294d7872ce6017f9b820cca227a7eb7&oe=60671726

[Bristolhibby]

Yeah, and on second thoughts I think I was being too kind to his potential in a 2nd referendum given the controversy over his remarks years ago about Hillsborough (blaming the fans for pushing..) and generally f'ing and blinding at anyone who disagrees with him.

It's a shame in some sense as the blog did do a lot of good investigation in the lead up to the first referendum.

Yes, he had a great niche role in IR1, but had gone totally up himself to the point of disappearing.

His anti trans havering is embarrassing. He does come off as some sort of 5th columnist now.

As does Salmond. That said, if I’d been framed and facing prison I’d be coming out guns blazing.

Might have waited until my life long ambition had been achieved first though.

I’ve used the Spanish Civil war before on here as an example. Yes needs to keep its broad coalition fighting the right fight, not each other, or it’s the easiest Unionist victory since the last time the Huns played Celtic.

J

[lapsedhibee]

Yes, he had a great niche role in IR1, but had gone totally up himself to the point of disappearing.

His anti trans havering is embarrassing. He does come off as some sort of 5th columnist now.

As does Salmond. That said, if I’d been framed and facing prison I’d be coming out guns blazing.

Might have waited until my life long ambition had been achieved first though.

I’ve used the Spanish Civil war before on here as an example. Yes needs to keep its broad coalition fighting the right fight, not each other, or it’s the easiest Unionist victory since the last time the Huns played Celtic.

J

Framed? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

Programme on STV just now about the union.


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[degenerated]

Programme on STV just now about the union.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOnce in a generation, selective use of a couple of weeks of covid figures, snp majority needed, sturgeon doomed.

I should have just gone to bed :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Once in a generation, selective use of a couple of weeks of covid figures, snp majority needed, sturgeon doomed.

I should have just gone to bed :greengrin

Yip. It was pretty dire stuff.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-accuse-sunak-pork-barrel-23610117.amp?__twitter_impression=true

This is why they wanted to fund things direct from London.


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[lord bunberry]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-accuse-sunak-pork-barrel-23610117.amp?__twitter_impression=true

This is why they wanted to fund things direct from London.


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That’s a shock :rolleyes:

[ronaldo7]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-accuse-sunak-pork-barrel-23610117.amp?__twitter_impression=true

This is why they wanted to fund things direct from London.


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They mention the Scotland office in the piece. If their was ever an office of state which so misses its target, it's this. It should be renamed, as it's not looking after the people of Scotland.

[Jones28]

They mention the Scotland office in the piece. If their was ever an office of state which so misses its target, it's this. It should be renamed, as it's not looking after the people of Scotland.

We are just a glorified estate that needs to be managed in the eyes of these people.

[Just Alf]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-accuse-sunak-pork-barrel-23610117.amp?__twitter_impression=true

This is why they wanted to fund things direct from London.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey've done similar in England, the Tory explanation for the majority of the money going to their own constituencies (Despite other areas being more deprived) is that as the party with a large majority it would naturally be the case. I did think grudgingly they had a point and wondered how it would play up here.
Now I know, and for some reason I'm not surprised.

It makes it all the more galling with all the furore up here regarding one party states, transparency, lack of accountability etc

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[cabbageandribs1875]

if you're on here Kyle...well done :greengrin

Kyle Forrest 🇳🇬🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 on Twitter: "It’s payday, so I’ve decided to up and join @theSNP I give @NicolaSturgeon a lot of stick most of the time tbh. But that’s covid. Watching yesterday’s committee the full 8 hours, your Scottishness takes over, it’s time for #IndyRef2 #PresidentSturgeon" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/KyleHibee07/status/1367517922978111488?s=19&fbclid=IwAR2m0bXifjG3wuC0AvEW5Ldw8xjB1EPnZoY4ZMDmC lXp6iH9iE87CX8tb5g)

[Mon Dieu4]

The mastermind of today's banners, may as well give in now, we are doomed

https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1278062499431055364?s=19

[degenerated]

The mastermind of today's banners, may as well give in now, we are doomed

https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1278062499431055364?s=19The constitution has been a gold mine for grifters to milk the gullible. I'm fairly sure that boy lives in Japan and has a magazine - pretentious food springs to mind.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157503808_10225768174421082_2661314029878861636_o. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=nLI7R2VexWcAX81ExYL&_nc_oc=AQmWLbHJoXoUasRs54eRwGkGdG8cEJjoQy5pmB3_fW_ E-hGBk7VAuHBoqovqslUSGvE&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=f2b53c8ae30b3d049f83cd72674259e3&oe=606854F5



oh god i hope there's no truth in this

[Ryan91]

The mastermind of today's banners, may as well give in now, we are doomed

https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1278062499431055364?s=19

Having had a look at the site, I think it's vastly overstating itself if it's calling itself "The Majority" - the site promotes the likes of George "I'm voting Tory" Galloway and anti-Devolution party, flips between admiring and satirising Douglas Ross and is proclaiming Salmond to be a bastion of truth and justice

[Peevemor]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157503808_10225768174421082_2661314029878861636_o. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=nLI7R2VexWcAX81ExYL&_nc_oc=AQmWLbHJoXoUasRs54eRwGkGdG8cEJjoQy5pmB3_fW_ E-hGBk7VAuHBoqovqslUSGvE&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=f2b53c8ae30b3d049f83cd72674259e3&oe=606854F5



oh god i hope there's no truth in thisI take it that's a wind up?

[weecounty hibby]

I take it that's a wind up?

It must be, surely!!?? If not, how are these people allowed to walk the streets freely?

[Rumble de Thump]

The mastermind of today's banners, may as well give in now, we are doomed

https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1278062499431055364?s=19

I met Mark Devlin and his partner a couple of years ago. They were trying to promote their latest venture at the time, but they were two of the most clueless people I've ever met.

[CropleyWasGod]

I take it that's a wind up?

Definitatatly :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

I take it that's a wind up?



mixed opinions on the group i saw it in :greengrina lot are hoping it is even if only for the sanity of the individual :)

[cabbageandribs1875]

Definitatatly :greengrin


opinions are Devided

[Moulin Yarns]

opinions are Devided

And conkered😉

[cabbageandribs1875]

Poll reveals highest support for Welsh independence ever recorded | Wales | ITV News (https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-03-04/poll-reveals-highest-support-for-welsh-independence-ever-recorded)


A new poll has revealed some of the highest levels of support for Welsh independence ever recorded.
The poll, made for the ITV News Tonight programme (https://www.itv.com/news/2021-03-04/is-the-united-kingdom-on-the-brink-of-a-break-up) in collaboration with Savanta ComRes, showed that 39% of respondents in Wales favoured independence from the rest of the UK.

the welsh are still a bit behind the scots indy movement and i suspect it might drop a bit in wales after covid is more or less dealt with, but i do wish them all the very best in their attempts to break the chains as well :agree: mon the celtic nations

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/157359515_872764250227279_4154000389859903014_o.pn g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AGJqpVgHWBoAX_dXhPe&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=9b9767499841625efc4646f8bb3323f2&oe=6067A9BF


pleasing, very pleasing

[Berwickhibby]

That's no shock BH. I bet we agree on more than his roasterdom.


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My mate just sent me this from Campbell's "Wings over Bath" page

If you're still supporting Nicola Sturgeon at this point, please stay the **** away from my page, you absolute embarrassment of a mental vacuum. I will ban you the second I see you in case your Idiocy Virus causes a pandemic of ****wittery.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Bathgate SNP Branch increased by 18 to 283 members this week :greengrin no doubt more to follow :agree:

[Kato]

My mate just sent me this from Campbell's "Wings over Bath" page

If you're still supporting Nicola Sturgeon at this point, please stay the **** away from my page, you absolute embarrassment of a mental vacuum. I will ban you the second I see you in case your Idiocy Virus causes a pandemic of ****wittery.Standard Twitter/Facebook stuff by those who imagine sticking to their opinion, no matter what it is, is theee most important thing in the Universe.

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[Ozyhibby]

Spectator reporting a new poll with No in the lead 52-48.


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[Ozyhibby]

Spectator reporting a new poll with No in the lead 52-48.


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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-suggests-no-vote-lead-as-salmond-inquiry-drives-voters-away-from-scottish-independence-3157134

Weird, they have done an unweighted poll? Not sure why because nobody does this anymore?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210306/e6d301d678b538c4633f072907e7b7c3.jpg


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[CloudSquall]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-suggests-no-vote-lead-as-salmond-inquiry-drives-voters-away-from-scottish-independence-3157134

Weird, they have done an unweighted poll? Not sure why because nobody does this anymore?


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22 in a row has brought about some desperate measures.

It will have some of the desired effects however, the "Wings Over Scotland" crew are rejoicing as it shows how Sturgeon apparently F'd it all up...

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-suggests-no-vote-lead-as-salmond-inquiry-drives-voters-away-from-scottish-independence-3157134

Weird, they have done an unweighted poll? Not sure why because nobody does this anymore?


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It’s not unweighted by the sound of things, it’s just not been “turnout weighted”, which usually just means excluding those who say they are unlikely to vote. Not likely to make a huge difference.

[degenerated]

This was the last weighted on they did, was published the other day but polled 18 to 22 feb

https://comresglobal.com/polls/itn-state-of-the-union-march-2021/

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1368357470159187972?s=19

Another poll showing a no lead and the SNP vote going down too. Unsurprising after the last few weeks.

[Ozyhibby]

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/03/and-now-for-good-news-panelbase-poll.html?m=1


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[lapsedhibee]

Smith :rolleyes: on Marr :rolleyes: : Even if SNP get a majority in May's election, it might not be a big enough majority to justify another referendum. :rolleyes:

[heretoday]

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1368357470159187972?s=19

Another poll showing a no lead and the SNP vote going down too. Unsurprising after the last few weeks.
One thing is certain. Scotland is split and we won't be free of political rancour for decades.
Enjoy!

[Keith_M]

I see the latest Independence Poll has No as being ahead by 52% to 48%.

I'd imagine the current Salmond enquiry will have had some influence on the result.

[danhibees1875]

Smith :rolleyes: on Marr :rolleyes: : Even if SNP get a majority in May's election, if might not be a big enough majority to justify another referendum. :rolleyes:

I actually thought the whole thing was quite well balanced. I don't often watch Marr but had seen plenty criticism of him and his show (possibly on here).

As someone who didn't follow the salmond story much or the trial last week I took from it that sturgeons performance was admirable - a world class politician were the words used as well as comment that no politician from London could have done the same as her. Very much downplayed the "I don't remember" answers which the Tories have been bigging up since too.

As for your specific point, I didn't think it was entirely unreasonable to raise it. They didn't say they can't or shouldn't and it was more of a throwaway comment about a projected slender (1) seat majority.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Whats the Greens position? Are they campaigning for a referendum should they help deliver a pro indy majority?
If so then why does it have to be an snp only majority that's required? Can the two parties not stand on a joint platform on this point only, or is that an impossibility?

[degenerated]

Whats the Greens position? Are they campaigning for a referendum should they help deliver a pro indy majority?
If so then why does it have to be an snp only majority that's required? Can the two parties not stand on a joint platform on this point only, or is that an impossibility?Because they know its nigh on impossible for a single party majority in Holyrood.

[Ozyhibby]

Whats the Greens position? Are they campaigning for a referendum should they help deliver a pro indy majority?
If so then why does it have to be an snp only majority that's required? Can the two parties not stand on a joint platform on this point only, or is that an impossibility?

So long as there is a pro independence majority in the parliament then they can vote for a referendum. Doesn’t matter what the parties are. If the Scottish Parliament votes for something based on manifesto commitments then it should happen.


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[lapsedhibee]

I actually thought the whole thing was quite well balanced. I don't often watch Marr but had seen plenty criticism of him and his show (possibly on here).

As someone who didn't follow the salmond story much or the trial last week I took from it that sturgeons performance was admirable - a world class politician were the words used as well as comment that no politician from London could have done the same as her. Very much downplayed the "I don't remember" answers which the Tories have been bigging up since too.

As for your specific point, I didn't think it was entirely unreasonable to raise it. They didn't say they can't or shouldn't and it was more of a throwaway comment about a projected slender (1) seat majority.

In a parliament that's been specifically designed not to produce a majority, if one party stands on a promise to have a referendum about something and then wins a majority, I'd say that's a mandate. Her 'throwaway comment' was just a part of the coming onslaught of 'only a supermajority would avoid divisiveness' type campaigning by Togetherists.

It was balanced for her, but that's a low bar.

[JimBHibees]

Spectator reporting a new poll with No in the lead 52-48.


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Just part of the spectator inspired momentum imo. Would struggle to believe anything they say.

[Keith_M]

This might sound like a stupid idea but....


Isn't it time for Labour Party members that are in favour of Independence to break off from the UK party and form their own Scottish Labour?

Obviously they couldn't call themselves Scottish Labour, but the term Independent Labour would do just fine until (if) Independence was finally achieved, in which case they'd be within their rights to rename themselves to 'Scottish Labour' / 'Labour Scotland' or whatever they see fit.

[Ozyhibby]

This might sound like a stupid idea but....


Isn't it time for Labour Party members that are in favour of Independence to break off from the UK party and form their own Scottish Labour?

Obviously they couldn't call themselves Scottish Labour, but the term Independent Labour would do just fine until (if) Independence was finally achieved, in which case they'd be within their rights to rename themselves to 'Scottish Labour' / 'Labour Scotland' or whatever they see fit.

Last thing we need is to be splitting the independence vote.


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[allmodcons]

Just part of the spectator inspired momentum imo. Would struggle to believe anything they say.


There are 2 new polls out today.

The ComRes poll should be ignored. It's a non standard poll that isn't weighted. Why they would do this is anybody's guess :rolleyes:.

The Panlebase poll is more concerning and does show a drop in support for Independence and the SNP.

Nobody likes to see party infighting and opposition parties and the media will play on this big style in the run up to the Scottish Election.

Never mind how Richard Leonard and Jackson Carlaw were deposed (i.e. - party infighting)!