Scottish Independence

[truehibernian]

so, has Westminster, Ed Sillyband, creepy Darling, or failed ex-chancellor of the Exchequer gogs brown, officially thanked the BBC for their part in the BT campaign yet ?

You'll be avoiding shopping in Tesco, Sainsburys and John Lewis too then eh ? They were the clincher along with RBS and Standard Life, not the Beeb.

They rolled out retail, industry and commerce to win the campaign - jobs and security clinched their win. Not the press.

[Gatecrasher]

Glad the No Vote won :thumbsup:
Big no vote in west lothian :thumbsup:

Mon the union :thumbsup:

[we are hibs]

embarrassment.

[Tyler Durden]

It's a shame that people feel the need to label others as cowards and bottler etc. Or suggest people voted in fear.

Accept that people used the information available to them and very rationally decided the best future for them and future generations was to remain part of the UK. Most of us who did so were very clearly NO from the outset and the campaign had little impact

[Monopolyguy]

Absolute *****bag of a country. Well done to everyone that voted no. Hope you all enjoy your Tory-UKIP coalition hell hole and Scotland being shafted ever more come the next general election.

[ACLeith]

Some of us on here have thought of today as “Reconciliation Day 1”. I went to bed and now glad I did, but I accept that those who stayed up are likely to be tired and that may be influencing their reaction to comments.

Today must not be a day for recriminations, accusations or gloating.

You’re either a democrat or you’re not, that is another YES/NO situation. Let’s rejoice that democracy has been the winner. I am gutted at the result and I certainly expected it to be much closer, but I do not think less of my fellow-Scots because they have listened to the arguments and many have simply come to a different opinion than me. How arrogant it would be to think otherwise!

The Westminster model of government is based on Colonial/ British Empire ideas, that they knew best at the centre what was right for countries like India, Ceylon, African countries too numerous to mention. That was lost a long time ago and it could be argued that Scotland has lost the opportunity to accelerate the final break-up of that thinking.

I have been a Federalist most of my adult life and I believed that YES was the best way of achieving that. I heard Willie Rennie this morning use the “F-word”, which I think is the first time I have heard it in its right context during the campaign. I also hear of the final solution to the “West Lothian” question being part of the process now to be taken forward, but IMO the only real solution to that question is a federal system.

Cameron and Darling and others in the TV studios like Danny Alexander have given a commitment to following the timetable that was set out when they were panicking. I am prepared to put aside for a few months my scepticism at their ability to achieve that to pause and see what happens. If they fail to deliver than I will be first in line with the accusations and recriminations!

But until then, well done Scotland, for showing the world what true democracy means.

[Colonel_HFC]

Well done to everyone that voted no.

Agreed.

[Moulin Yarns]

Some of us on here have thought of today as “Reconciliation Day 1”. I went to bed and now glad I did, but I accept that those who stayed up are likely to be tired and that may be influencing their reaction to comments.

Today must not be a day for recriminations, accusations or gloating.

You’re either a democrat or you’re not, that is another YES/NO situation. Let’s rejoice that democracy has been the winner. I am gutted at the result and I certainly expected it to be much closer, but I do not think less of my fellow-Scots because they have listened to the arguments and many have simply come to a different opinion than me. How arrogant it would be to think otherwise!

The Westminster model of government is based on Colonial/ British Empire ideas, that they knew best at the centre what was right for countries like India, Ceylon, African countries too numerous to mention. That was lost a long time ago and it could be argued that Scotland has lost the opportunity to accelerate the final break-up of that thinking.

I have been a Federalist most of my adult life and I believed that YES was the best way of achieving that. I heard Willie Rennie this morning use the “F-word”, which I think is the first time I have heard it in its right context during the campaign. I also hear of the final solution to the “West Lothian” question being part of the process now to be taken forward, but IMO the only real solution to that question is a federal system.

Cameron and Darling and others in the TV studios like Danny Alexander have given a commitment to following the timetable that was set out when they were panicking. I am prepared to put aside for a few months my scepticism at their ability to achieve that to pause and see what happens. If they fail to deliver than I will be first in line with the accusations and recriminations!

But until then, well done Scotland, for showing the world what true democracy means.

Totally agree.

8 and a half months to get an agreement before the election. Then we have to wait and watch what the Westminster politicians decide.

[Scouse Hibee]

Cowards, bottlers, running scared, wtf is that all about? Some folk need to take a long look at themselves if that is their label to fellow posters and other NO voters. It's been a long night with passions running high,hopefully the reason for such outbursts.

[johnbc70]

Jeez the way some are reacting its as if Scotland was already some third world country that was awful to live in and its just been made 100 times worse. Some of you don't know how lucky you are.

[marinello59]

Jeez the way some are reacting its as if Scotland was already some third world country that was awful to live in and its just been made 100 times worse. Some of you don't know how lucky you are.

I voted Yes but despite the vote not going my way I still think we still live in one of the best countries in the world. It could have been even better though.

I

[Gus]

Absolute *****bag of a country. Well done to everyone that voted no. Hope you all enjoy your Tory-UKIP coalition hell hole and Scotland being shafted ever more come the next general election.

Dry your eyes ffs

[goosefat]

Epic Yes voter lassie fail on Sky News...

“We’ll always be part of the UK but if we could be independent as well, that would be something else, that would be amazing”

:loser:

[Colonel_HFC]

Dry your eyes ffs

There's some white paper available for that.

[Gatecrasher]

Cowards, bottlers, running scared, wtf is that all about? Some folk need to take a long look at themselves if that is their label to fellow posters and other NO voters. It's been a long night with passions running high,hopefully the reason for such outbursts.

:top marks

[RyeSloan]

Well well some Yes voters really showed their true colours on this thread tonight....hopefully you'll get some sleep and be big enough to come back on and apologise.

ODS summed it up a few pages back. Salmond didn't make the case, he was unable to provide the concrete answers people need to back such a radical change.

It was pointed out to the Yes campaign time and time again that they needed to make that case for change, they needed to provide a clear roadmap and be 100% on what their version of independence actually meant...a concept to be negotiated after with no say from the electorate was simply not a good enough proposal for most.

I'm sure many will continue to blame the BBC et al but in reality the blame should be laid at Salmond's door...he took the wrong route and has paid for it dearly.

Many many no voters just couldn't agree to vote for the undoubted uncertainty and vagueness that a yes would bring.

Me? I'm relieved it's over, look forward to further devolved powers and truly hope that if the question is to be revisited the Yes campaign understand where they went wrong and come back with a credible and detailed proposal...if they had done that this time I have no doubt the nation would have voted Yes.

[capitals_finest]

Sickened by this result. What an opportunity, let down by our own.

Will never vote for Labour ever again.

[capitals_finest]

Well well some Yes voters really showed their true colours on this thread tonight....hopefully you'll get some sleep and be big enough to come back on and apologise.

ODS summed it up a few pages back. Salmond didn't make the case, he was unable to provide the concrete answers people need to back such a radical change.

It was pointed out to the Yes campaign time and time again that they needed to make that case for change, they needed to provide a clear roadmap and be 100% on what their version of independence actually meant...a concept to be negotiated after with no say from the electorate was simply not a good enough proposal for most.

I'm sure many will continue to blame the BBC et al but in reality the blame should be laid at Salmond's door...he took the wrong route and has paid for it dearly.

Many many no voters just couldn't agree to vote for the undoubted uncertainty and vagueness that a yes would bring.

Me? I'm relieved it's over, look forward to further devolved powers and truly hope that if the question is to be revisited the Yes campaign understand where they went wrong and come back with a credible and detailed proposal...if they had done that this time I have no doubt the nation would have voted Yes.

What is uncertain and vague about making our own decisions and looking after our own affairs. Making up 10% of an electorate that represents your countries interests is surely vague and uncertain?!?

[ACLeith]

Well well some Yes voters really showed their true colours on this thread tonight.... and come back with a credible and detailed proposal...
And some have accepted the democratic result? And all NO folk have been gracious and magnanimous?

We look forward to the first set of credible and detailed proposals by the end of November!

Anyway, back to reality, we have a vital match tomorrow, we can all vote YES to a win

:flag:

[Pretty Boy]

About to drag myself into work having had about an hours sleep if I'm being generous.

Last night was hugely disappointing. IMO the Yes case was clear, not watertight perhaps but clear. Ultimately a majority of people either didn't feel that was the case or didn't like what they saw. Democracy is such that often a sizeable minority do not get what they want and this is one such time.

Something that has been heartening is seeing the grassroots campaigning on both side but particularly the Yes campaign. The number of people becoming politically active for the 1st time is positive and if a sizeable number of those people can be kept interested then we can ensure Scotland does get the additional powers promised.

When all is said and done last night was a vote againat independence. It wasn't an endorsement of the Conservatives, it wasn't an endorsement of the austerity measures which have hit the most vulnerable hardest and it, hopefully, wasn't an endorsement of the status quo. Time for people to dust themselves down and continue their fight for whatever they believe in.

Well done to the Nos, they got their vote out in numbers and galvanised that vote with their campaign.

[Monopolyguy]

Dry your eyes ffs

I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

[ACLeith]

When all is said and done last night was a vote againat independence. It wasn't an endorsement of the Conservatives, it wasn't an endorsement of the austerity measures which have hit the most vulnerable hardest and it, hopefully, wasn't an endorsement of the status quo. Time for people to dust themselves down and continue their fight for whatever they believe in.

:applause: Well said

[RyeSloan]

What is uncertain and vague about making our own decisions and looking after our own affairs. Making up 10% of an electorate that represents your countries interests is surely vague and uncertain?!?

The result makes it clear, voting for a concept was not enough for most.

When you propose change it is not enough to point at the status quo and say that's crap let's do something else without explaining what that something else actually entails.

I get ya re self determination and I agree...I actually think the majority of Scots do as well. BUT it needed to be clearer as to what that would mean in reality. A white paper wish list and it's our pound so we are keeping it and dinnae worry about the EU that will all work out fine was not good enough to carry the day.

[Gus]

I probably should have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

Fair play buddy :aok:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Votes done and we need to move on but I have to say I'm absolutely gutted this morning.

Everyone has to make the vote that they thought was right, so no problem with how people chose to vote but absolutely ashamed of the way the campaign by the No was run and the disgraceful scaremongering and fear they spread. Labour, Lib dems and tories will never ever get my vote again.

People in scotland have long memories and the opinions of 45% of us will not be ignored.

Anyway off to England now for a long weekend. Same old same old.

[calumhibee1]

Votes done and we need to move on but I have to say I'm absolutely gutted this morning.

Everyone has to make the vote that they thought was right, so no problem with how people chose to vote but absolutely ashamed of the way the campaign by the No was run and the disgraceful scaremongering and fear they spread. Labour, Lib dems and tories will never ever get my vote again.

People in scotland have long memories and the opinions of 45% of us will not be ignored.

Anyway off to England now for a long weekend. Same old same old.

:top marks

[Moulin Yarns]

Votes done and we need to move on but I have to say I'm absolutely gutted this morning.

Everyone has to make the vote that they thought was right, so no problem with how people chose to vote but absolutely ashamed of the way the campaign by the No was run and the disgraceful scaremongering and fear they spread. Labour, Lib dems and tories will never ever get my vote again.

People in scotland have long memories and the opinions of 45% of us will not be ignored.

Anyway off to England now for a long weekend. Same old same old.

A wee bit of statisitcs to throw a wee bit of perspective, (especially for one of the No campaigners on here :wink:)

The total Electorate is 4,283,392
The total No vote is 2,001,392

So only 46.7% of the electorate voted in favour of NO, meaning 53.3% didn't get the result they wanted.

This is just like every election, isn't it? :greengrin

[Mon Dieu4]

Is there anywhere you can find out what specific constituencies voted?, I'd like to see the Leith and Edinburgh north result

[goosefat]

A wee bit of statisitcs to throw a wee bit of perspective, (especially for one of the No campaigners on here :wink:)

The total Electorate is 4,283,392
The total No vote is 2,001,392

So only 46.7% of the electorate voted in favour of NO, meaning 53.3% didn't get the result they wanted.

This is just like every election, isn't it? :greengrin

- 'Guess' campaign...I mean, 'Yes' campaign maths.

4,283,392 total electorate
3,619,915 total votes cast

663,477 of the electorate therefore did not vote - How can you possibly assume that these people did not get what they wanted?

[HappyAsHellas]

- 'Guess' campaign...I mean, 'Yes' campaign maths.

4,283,392 total electorate
3,619,915 total votes cast

663,477 of the electorate therefore did not vote - How can you possibly assume that these people did not get what they wanted?

Presumably because if it was something they believed in they would have voted?

[TrinityHibs]

A wee bit of statisitcs to throw a wee bit of perspective, (especially for one of the No campaigners on here :wink:)

The total Electorate is 4,283,392
The total No vote is 2,001,392

So only 46.7% of the electorate voted in favour of NO, meaning 53.3% didn't get the result they wanted.

This is just like every election, isn't it? :greengrin

Its a much stronger argument to say that by not voting you are tacitly accepting the decision of those that do so you are getting exactly what you wanted and deserved. The turn out on both sides was outstanding and I would be very surprised if we ever see numbers like that again unless promises are not kept in which case %'s could well be up and the decision different.

[Moulin Yarns]

- 'Guess' campaign...I mean, 'Yes' campaign maths.

4,283,392 total electorate
3,619,915 total votes cast

663,477 of the electorate therefore did not vote - How can you possibly assume that these people did not get what they wanted?

The clue was in the smilies.

It was aimed at one particular contributer who repeatedly claimed that he never got what government he votes for. :greengrin

[Jones28]

I'm not going to pretend that I'm not a wee bit gutted, but this is what democracy is.

Humble in victory, gracious in defeat.

Change is coming in Scotland and this is the start of the change that most of the country has been craving.

[JeMeSouviens]

Beyond gutted, I feel like my country has voted itself out of existence. Hopefully won't feel like that for ever.

Enjoy your celebrations No people. I think even some of you may see it as a pyrrhic victory in the end. "English votes for English laws" doesn't sound like what the Labour bods had in mind.

Thanks to all, Yes and No, that contributed to a great thread. Lots of good points mostly well argued I thought. Where I crossed the line, I re-apologise.

[The Harp Awakes]

Sickened by this result. What an opportunity, let down by our own.

Will never vote for Labour ever again.

Have to say that I'm totally gutted with the referendum outcome and it will take long time for me to get over this lost opportunity. It's wrong however to criticise those who voted no. Everyone has their own reasons for voting the way they did and we need to respect that and move on.

This result though will have repercussions for the organisations who got their hands dirty with the part they played in the debate. In particular the hypocrisy of the Labour Party in Scotland is truly stunning. A chance to improve the lives of the poorest people in Scotland, the people they are supposed to represent, and they sacrifice that opportunity to protect the jobs of their Westminster elite. I believe they will suffer a backlash in future elections and they deserve everything they get. The BBC also have questions to answer and I really hope there is an independent inquiry into the way they have covered the campaign particularly over the last 2 weeks. Standard Life, Asda, Sainsburys, RBS, Clydesdale Bank and all the other businesses who tried to influence people's voting intentions at such a late stage, will also face repercussions I would expect. They will lose customers as a result.

The most striking images for me in the BBC's election coverage overnight though were those from the gatherings of the respective camps to each result. On the No side you had a slap up jamboree of Hooray Henrys raising their wine glasses in the air and on the Yes side you had scenes from some city centre back office with activists at their desks.

This was a result for the 'haves' over the 'have nots'. Triumph for self-interest over social justice. A sad day for Scotland.

[Hibby Bairn]

- 'Guess' campaign...I mean, 'Yes' campaign maths.

4,283,392 total electorate
3,619,915 total votes cast

663,477 of the electorate therefore did not vote - How can you possibly assume that these people did not get what they wanted?

663,477 did not vote. I just don't get that. Why did they choose not to vote?

I mean six hundred thousand people!

[calumhibee1]

Have to say that I'm totally gutted with the referendum outcome and it will take long time for me to get over this lost opportunity. It's wrong however to criticise those who voted no. Everyone has their own reasons for voting the way they did and we need to respect that and move on.

This result though will have repercussions for the organisations who got their hands dirty with the part they played in the debate. In particular the hypocrisy of the Labour Party in Scotland is truly stunning. A chance to improve the lives of the poorest people in Scotland, the people they are supposed to represent, and they sacrifice that opportunity to protect the jobs of their Westminster elite. I believe they will suffer a backlash in future elections and they deserve everything they get. The BBC also have questions to answer and I really hope there is an independent inquiry into the way they have covered the campaign particularly over the last 2 weeks. Standard Life, Asda, Sainsburys, RBS, Clydesdale Bank and all the other businesses who tried to influence people's voting intentions at such a late stage, will also face repercussions I would expect. They will lose customers as a result.

The most striking images for me in the BBC's election coverage overnight though were those from the gatherings of the respective camps to each result. On the No side you had a slap up jamboree of Hooray Henrys raising their wine glasses in the air and on the Yes side you had scenes from some city centre back office with activists at their desks.

This was a result for the 'haves' over the 'have nots'. Triumph for self-interest over social justice. A sad day for Scotland.

This is how I see it. The chance to improve the lives of everyone in Scotland, but in particular the people who needed it most. We've backed the establishment instead. Feel a bit upset at the thought of it tbh.

[JustPassing]

This is how I see it. The chance to improve the lives of everyone in Scotland, but in particular the people who needed it most. We've backed the establishment instead. Feel a bit upset at the thought of it tbh.

We've been denied a great opportunity to make a difference to the lives of Scots. Instead we'll forever be in thrall to the three Tory parties at Westminster, thanks in part to the barely concealed bias of the BBC.

Be prepared for 'revised' upward estimates of oil and gas reserves and the net contribution of revenue to the Exchequer from Scotland. The Callaghan government pulled the same stunt in 1979.

[Scottie]

Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.

[lord bunberry]

Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.
:top marks

[Swedish hibee]

Gutted.
Now I live in a fair & equal country, I would have liked the same for my homeland.

..You cannie fool the Glaswegians though :wink:

[adhibs]

Feel numb. Was expecting a no but it hasnt made it any easier to take

[Moulin Yarns]

663,477 did not vote. I just don't get that. Why did they choose not to vote?

I mean six hundred thousand people!

About double the winning margin!!

This is an interesting post referendum poll.


13494

[JeMeSouviens]

About double the winning margin!!

This is an interesting post referendum poll.


13494

Thanks, that is interesting. Half the No vote's biggest reason was "too risky" and the disproportionate number of their support in 65+ is amazing. I think you could characterise enough of the No vote as "Not Yet" to be fairly certain we'll be back here again someday. Only 62% of the No vote think that settles it for >10 years.

Looking at the result numbers, it looks like differential turnout won it for No. Yes did an extraordinary job of motivating low turnout areas to come out in large numbers, but the affluent No voters turned themselves out in even greater numbers to stop them.

[over the line]

A wee bit of statisitcs to throw a wee bit of perspective, (especially for one of the No campaigners on here :wink:)

The total Electorate is 4,283,392
The total No vote is 2,001,392

So only 46.7% of the electorate voted in favour of NO, meaning 53.3% didn't get the result they wanted.

This is just like every election, isn't it? :greengrin

The same statistics show that just over 62% of the electorate didn't vote for independence it would seem.

I actually thought it would be a Yes and I'm a bit surprised with the result in a way.

I do feel for the passionate Yes campaigners, as it must be a gut wrenching disappointment for them.

I still think the whole campaign has highlighted some really important issues for Scotland and the whole UK. People up and down the UK are clearly not happy about the current situation and I hope this translates into meaningful change for the whole UK. Only time will tell.

[JeMeSouviens]

About double the winning margin!!

This is an interesting post referendum poll.


13494

Just looked up the number of over 65s in Scotland - 930K! So if that poll was correct, Yes may have won among the working age population. Incredible pensioner power.

[allmodcons]

We get sovereignty put in our hands for a one day and our people hand it straight back to Westminster!!
Beggars belief, but would appear that a combination of fear and self-interest have won the day ahead of hope and social justice.
I’m not sure where we go from here as country, given the size of the ‘Yes’ vote (i.e. – over 1.6M) I think this will have a serious impact our psyche as a ‘Nation’.

[Gus]

We get sovereignty put in our hands for a one day and our people hand it straight back to Westminster!!
Beggars belief, but would appear that a combination of fear and self-interest have won the day ahead of hope and social justice.
I’m not sure where we go from here as country, given the size of the ‘Yes’ vote (i.e. – over 1.6M) I think this will have a serious impact our psyche as a ‘Nation’.

Maybe it wasn't fear that motivated people to vote no. Maybe it was belief & hope that the country will be better together? Long term, Social injustice? More people voted no than yes.

Would you of been saying if the result was yes "where does the country go for here due to the impact on the psyche of no supporters"

[#FromTheCapital]

I've made no secret of my intention to vote no to independance throughout. Although in the aftermath I have to admit it genuinely upsets me to see so many people in despair. Its been an extremely emotional time for Scotland as a whole and people had/have a lot of belief in the issue. Hopefully once the dust settles and people can start thinking positively again then we can move forward.

[JeMeSouviens]

Maybe it wasn't fear that motivated people to vote no. Maybe it was belief & hope that the country will be better together? Long term, Social injustice? More people voted no than yes.

Would you of been saying if the result was yes "where does the country go for here due to the impact on the psyche of no supporters"

Not all of them, no, but "shock and awe" wasn't done for nothing, was it? Look at the poll posted above. No voters given 3 broad categories as to why they voted No:

- 47% "too much risk"
- 27% "better together"
- 25% "best of both worlds"

[Colonel_HFC]

Maybe it wasn't fear that motivated people to vote no. Maybe it was belief & hope that the country will be better together? Long term, Social injustice? More people voted no than yes.

Would you of been saying if the result was yes "where does the country go for here due to the impact on the psyche of no supporters"

Exactly, double standards. Just accept the result, as everyone promised they would. And it's also a bit strange to criticise someone for voting out of self-interest. Why wouldn't they?

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly, double standards. Just accept the result, as everyone promised they would. And it's also a bit strange to criticise someone for voting out of self-interest. Why wouldn't they?

... because not everyone does. We all have our own reasons for voting the way we do, all of them valid. Self-interest wasn't one of mine yesterday.

[the_ginger_hibee]

I've made no secret of my intention to vote no to independance throughout. Although in the aftermath I have to admit it genuinely upsets me to see so many people in despair. Its been an extremely emotional time for Scotland as a whole and people had/have a lot of belief in the issue. Hopefully once the dust settles and people can start thinking positively again then we can move forward.

:agree:

Very good comments. Things are still raw and people will always react in the immediate aftermath.

The vote is done. If you still feel robbed or passionate, join your local independence action group or political party, use your pain as a springboard to positive action - don't use it as a tool to isolate yourself from friends, family, fellow supporters.

[JeMeSouviens]

I've made no secret of my intention to vote no to independance throughout. Although in the aftermath I have to admit it genuinely upsets me to see so many people in despair. Its been an extremely emotional time for Scotland as a whole and people had/have a lot of belief in the issue. Hopefully once the dust settles and people can start thinking positively again then we can move forward.

Nice thought but the "silent majority" won, remember? That's the people who don't want to be involved. The grassroots campaign that mobilised itself will be in utter dejection for years. My country just voted itself out of existence, not something that's easy to get over I don't think.

[SteveHFC]

I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

Great post :top marks

[allmodcons]

Maybe it wasn't fear that motivated people to vote no. Maybe it was belief & hope that the country will be better together? Long term, Social injustice? More people voted no than yes.

Would you of been saying if the result was yes "where does the country go for here due to the impact on the psyche of no supporters"


We've had 35 years of social injustice! It began with Thatcher and then morphed in to New Labour under Tony Blair.

How much longer do we have to wait before it gets Better Together?

The middle classes would prefer to spend their money on another iPad or iPhone to add to their already ridiculous collection of gadgets before they'd consider paying more tax to implement socially just policies.

Last night's vote was a once in a lifetime opportunity to shake up the failed Westminster system of Government and we blew it. As I said, sovereignty for one day and we handed it straight back!!

[allmodcons]

Exactly, double standards. Just accept the result, as everyone promised they would. And it's also a bit strange to criticise someone for voting out of self-interest. Why wouldn't they?

I have accepted the result, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

As to the bit in bold, this is everything that's wrong with our society. If you can't see outside your own 'little bubble' when you are in the polling booth then we truly are ****ed.

[Gus]

Not all of them, no, but "shock and awe" wasn't done for nothing, was it? Look at the poll posted above. No voters given 3 broad categories as to why they voted No:

- 47% "too much risk"
- 27% "better together"
- 25% "best of both worlds"

A poll of every no person or a pool of say 100. Depending where it geographically I don't take any notice of these polls. Not a dig at you btw as I see where you are coming from.

[TRC]

I hope come the next elections that 87% of the electorate vote as have done in this vote!

[stantonhibby]

We've had 35 years of social injustice! It began with Thatcher and then morphed in to New Labour under Tony Blair.

How much longer do we have to wait before it gets Better Together?

The middle classes would prefer to spend their money on another iPad or iPhone to add to their already ridiculous collection of gadgets before they'd consider paying more tax to implement socially just policies.

Last night's vote was a once in a lifetime opportunity to shake up the failed Westminster system of Government and we blew it. As I said, sovereignty for one day and we handed it straight back!!


Why doesn't the SNP use the tax raising powers they already have then ?

[Scottie]

I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

Pal we need to hope UKIP get in at the next election and they'll take the UK OUT of Europe. That's the only way we'll get another referendum in the next 10 years. Horrible though I know :pray:

[hibs0666]

This is how I see it. The chance to improve the lives of everyone in Scotland, but in particular the people who needed it most. We've backed the establishment instead. Feel a bit upset at the thought of it tbh.

Nope we haven't voted against a social justice agenda, we have voted against an independence agenda.

[allmodcons]

Why doesn't the SNP use the tax raising powers they already have then ?

Because increasing income tax alone is almost unworkable in a devolved settlement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26630498

[CropleyWasGod]

Because they are unworkable in a devolved settlement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

[JeMeSouviens]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

[Bad Martini]

Gutted.
Now I live in a fair & equal country, I would have liked the same for my homeland.

..You cannie fool the Glaswegians though :wink:

:agree:

Respect to the people of Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbartonshire.

[allmodcons]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

Sorry, not having a good day!!!!! Forgot to include link.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

Cheers.

Was never very sure whether we would ever actually use it. I was one of the deluded fools who voted for the LibDems "1p on Income Tax, to pay for free Higher Education" in 1999.... and got screwed over. Since then, I have been very cynical about why it's there.

[allmodcons]

No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

I think BBC article confirms this by stating that any tax take would be lost in implementation and set up costs.

[stantonhibby]

Because increasing income tax alone is almost unworkable in a devolved settlement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26630498

Ok thanks..........never knew that.

[allmodcons]

Cheers.

Was never very sure whether we would ever actually use it. I was one of the deluded fools who voted for the LibDems "1p on Income Tax, to pay for free Higher Education" in 1999.... and got screwed over. Since then, I have been very cynical about why it's there.

I'm surprised, your posts always appear to show a good grasp of figures!
Mind you, 15 years is a long time ago!

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/promise-for-Scotland#petition


THE PETITION TEXT:Dear David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg:

As the Scottish referendum campaigns came to a head, you made the Scottish people a series of promises. They included:

new powers for the Scottish Parliament
the power to spend more on the NHS if Scotland wanted to
that the final decision on public services spending would stay in Scotland


Please stick to those promises on the timetable you agreed. Scotland won’t accept less

[lobster]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

[lobster]

Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.

:agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

[Colonel_HFC]

... because not everyone does. We all have our own reasons for voting the way we do, all of them valid. Self-interest wasn't one of mine yesterday.

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

[Sergio sledge]

Just looked up the number of over 65s in Scotland - 930K! So if that poll was correct, Yes may have won among the working age population. Incredible pensioner power.

If all the over 65's hadn't voted then it would have been a Yes vote.

The most interesting figure in that trend is the 18-24 vote, it is the only one which doesn't seem to fit in as it is the only age group below 55 that voted against independence. I wonder why that is, does anyone know how many non-scottish born students were registered to vote?

[Judas Iscariot]

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

100% this

Laughing stock..

[Colonel_HFC]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Pathetic 😢

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm surprised, your posts always appear to show a good grasp of figures!
Mind you, 15 years is a long time ago!

It wasn't about the figures.

The LibDems campaigned on that platform, and reneged on it as soon they got into bed with Labour.

Swine. Never been able to trust them since.

[allmodcons]

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

I can only assume that you are on the wind up.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Actually, I'm pretty proud of that fact that 84% deemed it important enough to vote. Not ashamed at all.

[Colonel_HFC]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.

It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).

[CropleyWasGod]

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

It does if you have that mentality.

I, and those I respect (and that includes both Yes and No voters) generally don't.

[Colonel_HFC]

I can only assume that you are on the wind up.

You can assume what you like. It doesn't matter.

[Future17]

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

I'm not saying there's any problem with voting in your own best interest, but I do think it wasn't the primary concern for a lot of "Yes" voters.

[Colonel_HFC]

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

It does if you have that mentality.

I, and those I respect (and that includes both Yes and No voters) generally don't.

Again, speak for yourself. So you only respect people that think like you?

[pedroorange1875]

Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.

Before i start i voted yes. However the only people that blew it were the SNP/Yes campaign. This campaign has been rumbling on for nearly 3 years and still for the average guy in the street the YES campaign could not answer very important, highly crucial questions in a very clear concise manner leaving no question for debate or a chance to be disgracefully scaremongered in the last 2 weeks, which i feel swung the balance.

Instead for the first year we got battered on the radio and other media that 16/17 year olds can vote. We got told free stuff would continue, we got told about nuclear weapons. Yet even now there is no absolute clear way forward on currency, taxations systems, monetary policy and actual real wealth figures from our resources. Now i concede that if we delve massively into this then answers could be found to a certain extent. However the BBC/headline newspapers dont do that they sensationalise it all to the average man. With scarmongering tactics that were deplorable of course people will become swayed.

All these points should have been debated to death long long before this campaign closed so that any dirty tactics which were definately employed 2 weeks upto the voting day would have easily been rubbished without question by the average man.

Salmond etc missed a massive opportunity by getting waylaid, involved in petty arguments and not focusing to ensuring mr and mrs mainstream new exactly the answers without as much doubt as possible about the really crucial matters. But hey at least 16/17 year olds got to vote..

Absolutely disillusioned by it all...a huge, historic opportunity wasted

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4174166]

Again, speak for yourself. So you only respect people that think like you?

Did I say that?

If you read my post, I said that many people I respect voted differently to me.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

:agree:

Respect to the people of Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbartonshire.

1 in every 4 Glaswegians couldnae even be arsed getting involved.

[Colonel_HFC]

I'm not saying there's any problem with voting in your own best interest, but I do think it wasn't the primary concern for a lot of "Yes" voters.

I think that is a lot to do with the fact that (just going on what's been reported) a lot of the Yes vote (not all before you start having a conniption) came from areas with the most poverty. And ultimately they have little to lose if the Scottish economy was to fall apart (as many no voters believe it would). So the only vote in their self interest was to vote for any kind of change, which is what happened. So I do think everybody voted for self interest one way or the other. Even those English hating Braveheart types were voting for self-interest, albeit an emotional and idiotic one.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think that is a lot to do with the fact that (just going on what's been reported) a lot of the Yes vote (not all before you start having a conniption) came from areas with the most poverty. And ultimately they have little to lose if the Scottish economy was to fall apart (as many no voters believe it would). So the only to vote in their self interest was to vote for any kind of change, which is what happened. So I do think everybody voted for self interest one way or the other. Even those English hating Braveheart types were voting for self-interest, albeit an emotional and idiotic one.

I've already disproved that. :wink:

[Colonel_HFC]

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

Of all the posts I've read I think this is the most pathetic and stupid one. Well done, on this thread that's quite an achievement.

[JeMeSouviens]

Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.

It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).

I have a good job, happy marriage, couple of kids, homeowner etc. I've done fine by your criteria. I didn't vote in my own self interest financially, although I do judge it to be in my best interest to live in a country that's fairer to all and has a cohesive society. Actually my instinct is to grow a pair and move to one, it's only really wife's attachment to family that stops me.

[Moulin Yarns]

Of all the posts I've read I think this is the most pathetic and stupid one. Well done, on this thread that's quite an achievement.

A wee bit of advice, if I may. Pipe down and stop trying to wind people up. We know you are happy, but a lot of people are not, and your posts are not helping in the least.

Give it a break, by all means keep reading, but stop replying without thinking how others are feeling, please.

[Colonel_HFC]

I've already disproved that. :wink:

If you think you've "proved" or "disproved" anything then you need to learn English properly and realise what the verb "to prove" means. You have disproved nothing.

[Bad Martini]

1 in every 4 Glaswegians couldnae even be arsed getting involved.
Yep. They're not the only ones though. Larger cities had a lower turnout than smaller places. 75% is a big turnout for them though, irrespective.

[allmodcons]

Of all the posts I've read I think this is the most pathetic and stupid one. Well done, on this thread that's quite an achievement.

That really is rich coming from you.
Is it hard being one of life's top achievers?

[Colonel_HFC]

I have a good job, happy marriage, couple of kids, homeowner etc. I've done fine by your criteria. I didn't vote in my own self interest financially, although I do judge it to be in my best interest to live in a country that's fairer to all and has a cohesive society. Actually my instinct is to grow a pair and move to one, it's only really wife's attachment to family that stops me.

Well I've lived in a few. You'll find the same issues in most, just maybe without the chip on shoulder victim mentality that a lot of people in Scotland seem to have.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you think you've "proved" or "disproved" anything then you need to learn English properly and realise what the verb "to prove" means. You have disproved nothing.

You said "everybody voted for their self-interest".

I didn't.

Ergo, not everybody voted for their self-interest.

[allmodcons]

Well I've lived in a few. You'll find the same issues in most, just maybe without the chip on shoulder victim mentality that a lot of people in Scotland seem to have.

Are you talking marriages or houses?

[Colonel_HFC]

A wee bit of advice, if I may. Pipe down and stop trying to wind people up. We know you are happy, but a lot of people are not, and your posts are not helping in the least.

Give it a break, by all means keep reading, but stop replying without thinking how others are feeling, please.

I am not particularly happy about it, just relieved for some family and friends still living in Scotland. I just find a lot of the posts on this thread unbelievably stupid. Seriously, posting about folk songs no longer being credible... What the hell is that?

[Scottie]

I'm deeply depressed that the poll showed that the older generation voted NO while the young voted YES.

So the retired will lunch out everyday while the young working families will depend on food banks to survive.

But don't worry guys and girls "Were better together"

[Bad Martini]

You said "everybody voted for their self-interest".

I didn't.

Ergo, not everybody voted for their self-interest.
Ditto. Sometimes you need to take a risk...

However, we still failed and now look foolish, voting in a nationalist party and then turning down independence.

Hope the wonderful new powers are worth it.......

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm deeply depressed that the poll showed that the older generation voted NO while the young voted YES.

So the retired will lunch out everyday while the young working families will depend on food banks to survive.

But don't worry guys and girls "Were better together"

18-24 year olds voted no, apparently.

[Scottie]

18-24 year olds voted no, apparently.

Said the young mate 16-17 year olds :wink:

[Baader]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs?

Bottom line is this is the sad reality. More people in Edinburgh want to be governed by Westminster than Holy Rood.

What sort of 'country' is this?

[lord bunberry]

I'm deeply depressed that the poll showed that the older generation voted NO while the young voted YES.

So the retired will lunch out everyday while the young working families will depend on food banks to survive.

But don't worry guys and girls "Were better together"
Those with the least to lose outvoted those with the most to gain. Thats how democracy works I suppose.

[CropleyWasGod]

Said the young mate 16-17 year olds :wink:

Pfft... from my point of view, every ****er's young. :greengrin

[marinello59]

18-24 year olds voted no, apparently.

It's been fairly interesting how the younger age group did back the No vote. When it was announced that 16-18 year olds would be eligible to vote for this one it was widely assumed that they would go with the Yes side.

[Bad Martini]

How do we know reliably the ages of voters??

[Gus]

I'm deeply depressed that the poll showed that the older generation voted NO while the young voted YES.

So the retired will lunch out everyday while the young working families will depend on food banks to survive.

But don't worry guys and girls "Were better together"

Would food banks and poverty disappear in an Independent Scotland????

[Scottie]

Those with the least to lose outvoted those with the most to gain. Thats how democracy works I suppose.

Unbelievable LB i hoped that the older generation would vote with optimism for the younger generation but that's obviously not what happened.

[Colonel_HFC]

That really is rich coming from you.
Is it hard being one of life's top achievers?

Top achievers? Where did that come from? No, I just went to school, studied and got a job. And it wasn't all that easy at times. And at times it seemed a lot easier just to not bother. And I am certainly not a top achiever - but I have worked up a career path that allows me to take care of my family etc. but that's nothing special and most people in Scotland can do those things if they want. I only finished paying off my student loans etc. two years ago - almost ten years after finishing studying. That's also not the only way to do things - there are hundreds of ways of living a reasonable standard of live in Scotland. And people in Scotland have much better opportunity than those in many other countries - and even people from much worse off countries can and do still achieve a lot of things (far more than me).

[lord bunberry]

Unbelievable LB i hoped that the older generation would vote with optimism for the younger generation but that's obviously not what happened.

I hoped that's what would happen as well.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've already disproved that. :wink:

Maybe if you reflect on it, you'll find that voting Yes benefited you in some way, such as making you feel good about yourself, or by sticking to what you believe is right. There are very few selfless acts - we usually do what is best for us.

[Colonel_HFC]

Are you talking marriages or houses?

1 marriage, a few houses / countries.

[marinello59]

[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;4174088]No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.[QUOTE]

Dropped quietly by the SNP without mentioning it to us beforehand IIRC.

[lobster]

Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.

It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).

I take it you voted No and then had a good look at yourself in the mirror whilst caressing your testacles?
Stands to reason.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Unbelievable LB i hoped that the older generation would vote with optimism for the younger generation but that's obviously not what happened.

I think older people have less control over their lives. If they are skint, it's harder for them to get a job to supplement their pension.

The prospect of a messy transition, meaning the odd missed payment, would be very worrying to someone relying on that income.

Secondly, that generation was the last to be brought up to believe in Britains imperial power. They were born at a time when Britain had to unite to see off Germany. I have no doubt that would influence their view of the Union.

Finally, change gets harder as you get older. You become more careful, and tend to avoid risk.

[allmodcons]

Top achievers? Where did that come from? No, I just went to school, studied and got a job. And it wasn't all that easy at times. And at times it seemed a lot easier just to not bother. And I am certainly not a top achiever - but I have worked up a career path that allows me to take care of my family etc. but that's nothing special and most people in Scotland can do those things if they want. I only finished paying off my student loans etc. two years ago - almost ten years after finishing studying. That's also not the only way to do things - there are hundreds of ways of living a reasonable standard of live in Scotland. And people in Scotland have much better opportunity than those in many other countries - and even people from much worse off countries can and do still achieve a lot of things (far more than me).

I think you may have missed the irony.

[Colonel_HFC]

Would food banks and poverty disappear in an Independent Scotland????

In many people's opinion it would be much worse.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.

It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).

Is taking responsibility the same as sharing it? :confused: I just want the best of both worlds, I take responsibility for ensuring I don't have to make decisions.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe if you reflect on it, you'll find that voting Yes benefited you in some way, such as making you feel good about yourself, or by sticking to what you believe is right. There are very few selfless acts - we usually do what is best for us.

It made me freaking greet, I tell you that :greengrin

Seriously, when I talk about self-interest, I mean in the sense of materialism.

[lobster]

1 in every 4 Glaswegians couldnae even be arsed getting involved.

Fair point but still a 75% turnout which relatively very good.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It made me freaking greet, I tell you that :greengrin

Had it not been for the support of my good friend Glen Fiddich, I couldn't have taken it myself.

[Scottie]

Pfft... from my point of view, every ****er's young. :greengrin

At least you've given me a laugh today :greengrin


Would food banks and poverty disappear in an Independent Scotland????


Id like to have thought so. Can you tell me what the present government have done to stop the dramatic rise in food banks ?

I appreciate the hungry in Glasgow are the same as the hungry anywhere else in the Uk but with an Independent Scotland they indicated that this was very high on their priority list. Unfortunately due to the NO vote we will never know but from what we hear and see there seems to be very little being done in the deprived areas to ease the crisis at the food banks by the government.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would food banks and poverty disappear in an Independent Scotland????

All the banks were moving to England.

Nick Robinson told me.

[Sergio sledge]

It's been fairly interesting how the younger age group did back the No vote. When it was announced that 16-18 year olds would be eligible to vote for this one it was widely assumed that they would go with the Yes side.

According to the Lord Ashcroft Polls, 16-17 year olds voted 71 Y - 29 N, the 18-24 year olds voted 48 Y - 52 N. It is a strange one as, apart from the 18-24 year olds, support for independence decreased the older the voter.

I do wonder why this was the case, are there massive numbers of students in Scotland who are from the rUK who would more likely vote No?

[Phil D. Rolls]

At least you've given me a laugh today :greengrin



Id like to have thought so. Can you tell me what the present government have done to stop the dramatic rise in food banks ?

I appreciate the hungry in Glasgow are the same as the hungry anywhere else in the Uk but with an Independent Scotland they indicated that this was very high on their priority list. Unfortunately due to the NO vote we will never know but from what we hear and see there seems to be very little being done in the deprived areas to ease the crisis at the food banks by the government.

Comparing the hungry in the UK to those in other countries, suggests that the poor in other countries aren't obese. Just an observation.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Thanks, that is interesting. Half the No vote's biggest reason was "too risky" and the disproportionate number of their support in 65+ is amazing. I think you could characterise enough of the No vote as "Not Yet" to be fairly certain we'll be back here again someday. Only 62% of the No vote think that settles it for >10 years.

Looking at the result numbers, it looks like differential turnout won it for No. Yes did an extraordinary job of motivating low turnout areas to come out in large numbers, but the affluent No voters turned themselves out in even greater numbers to stop them.


not really, we are all creatures of habit, that 65+ vote are from the dark ages when there was only two parties to vote for...conservative or Labour, i admire their loyalty, but i'm sad at their lack of thought for future generations after they pop there clogs, i myself voted for Labour when i was 18 because it was traditional and my parents voted Labour, within the next 12 months i realised the error of my ways and started on the SNP bandwagon, that was 35 years ago :whistle:

[Scottie]

I think older people have less control over their lives. If they are skint, it's harder for them to get a job to supplement their pension.

The prospect of a messy transition, meaning the odd missed payment, would be very worrying to someone relying on that income.

Secondly, that generation was the last to be brought up to believe in Britains imperial power. They were born at a time when Britain had to unite to see off Germany. I have no doubt that would influence their view of the Union.

Finally, change gets harder as you get older. You become more careful, and tend to avoid risk.

I' ll. agree with you up to a point but my old man is 84 and jumps out of aeroplanes in his spare time so I'd say he is a risk taker and try telling them that Maggie Thatcher had Scotland's best interest at heart. Suppose it depends on if your glass is half full or half empty :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

According to the Lord Ashcroft Polls, 16-17 year olds voted 71 Y - 29 N, the 18-24 year olds voted 48 Y - 52 N. It is a strange one as, apart from the 18-24 year olds, support for independence decreased the older the voter.

I do wonder why this was the case, are there massive numbers of students in Scotland who are from the rUK who would more likely vote No?

It could well just be a sampling error, opinion pollsters have found it very hard to get respondents in the <25 age group, so the ones they do get usually have to be upweighted a lot, hence making the number more unreliable.

[hibs0666]

not really, we are all creatures of habit, that 65+ vote are from the dark ages when there was only two parties to vote for...conservative or Labour, i admire their loyalty, but i'm sad at their lack of thought for future generations after they pop there clogs

I'm sure for many old people the prospects for future generations was behind their decision.

[marinello59]

not really, we are all creatures of habit, that 65+ vote are from the dark ages when there was only two parties to vote for...conservative or Labour, i admire their loyalty, but i'm sad at their lack of thought for future generations after they pop there clogs

Dearie me.

[lobster]

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

Yes, its hard to maintain a proud sense of ourselves when the majority of our compatriots collectively pish their pants.
I hope you keep going with what you are doing though. The tyranny of a fearful majority doesn't speak for us and hopefully people abroad can see that.
All the best.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'm sure for many old people the prospects for future generations was behind their decision.


i disagree :greengrin the pension was a big issue the last several months, i really can't blame them as it's what's in our pockets at the end of the day

[Moulin Yarns]

i disagree :greengrin the pension was a big issue the last several months, i really can't blame them as it's what's in our pockets at the end of the day

That'll be the pension that still gets paid to pensioners living in foreign countries, like Spain, Portugal, Brazil......

If there hadn't been the lies and deceipt of the No Thinkers, and only the truth, then pensions wouldn't have been such a big issue.

[marinello59]

Yes, its hard to maintain a proud sense of ourselves when the majority of our compatriots collectively pish their pants.
I hope you keep going with what you are doing though. The tyranny of a fearful majority doesn't speak for us and hopefully people abroad can see that.
All the best.

Wow. We are entering the realms of the ridiculous now. What happened to the pre-vote Scottish values of tolerance and respect for others we boasted about. Now it seems if they don't agree with us they are fair game for abuse.

[Bad Martini]

Wow. We are entering the realms of the ridiculous now. What happened to the pre-vote Scottish values of tolerance and respect for others we boasted about. Now it seems if they don't agree with us they are fair game for abuse.
What tolerance and respect. What's this mentalness you speak of sir :D:cool:

[stantonhibby]

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.


Deary me..............didn't we take the p*ss out of kickback for that sort of chat ?

[Colonel_HFC]

I take it you voted No and then had a good look at yourself in the mirror whilst caressing your testacles?
Stands to reason.

I didn't vote. Although I was born in Scotland and spend 80% of my life there, I live overseas - therefore not allowed to vote.

[marinello59]

I didn't vote. Although I was born in Scotland and spend 80% of my life there, I live overseas - therefore not allowed to vote.

I think its sunny here 20% of the time. Coincidence? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

I' ll. agree with you up to a point but my old man is 84 and jumps out of aeroplanes in his spare time so I'd say he is a risk taker and try telling them that Maggie Thatcher had Scotland's best interest at heart. Suppose it depends on if your glass is half full or half empty :greengrin

Most old people like to play bingo in smelly social clubs though.


I didn't vote. Although I was born in Scotland and spend 80% of my life there, I live overseas - therefore not allowed to vote.

Sorry mate, but if you spend over 80% of your life in Scotland, you must live here rather than overseas. Or is my arithmetic that bad?

[Colonel_HFC]

It made me freaking greet, I tell you that :greengrin

Seriously, when I talk about self-interest, I mean in the sense of materialism.

That's not the only measure of self interest though. Everyone voted in their own self interest because they voted for what they wanted, whatever the reason.

[Scottie]

[QUOTE=Phil D. Rolls;4174352]Most old people like to play bingo in smelly social clubs though.


Christ is that what we've got to look forward to in oor auld age ?

Wi that, Hibs and London Rule for the for- seeable i'm no feeling it mate.

[Colonel_HFC]

Most old people like to play bingo in smelly social clubs though.



Sorry mate, but if you spend over 80% of your life in Scotland, you must live here rather than overseas. Or is my arithmetic that bad?

Spent, not "spend". Typo. I have not lived there for over 5 years actually.

[lobster]

I didn't vote. Although I was born in Scotland and spend 80% of my life there, I live overseas - therefore not allowed to vote.


FFS :rolleyes:

[Gatecrasher]

Salmon stepping down.

[Pretty Boy]

Salmonds gone.

[degenerated]

Salmonds gone.
And stating that Cameron has refused to commit to Gordon Brown's promise of second reading of scotland bill in westminster by 27th March

[Scottie]

Here we go guys and girls

Less than 10 hours after the vote being decided the Westminster government are welching on their vow.

All you NO's have been. Misled and duped. Better together my arse.

We've all been had. :fuming::fuming::fuming:

[cabbageandribs1875]

massive respect for the man, over to you nicola(or swinney)

[I'm_cabbaged]

And stating that Cameron has refused to commit to Gordon Brown's promise of second reading of scotland bill in westminster by 27th March

Yep, getting shafted already. Lying *******s

[cabbageandribs1875]

Westminster lied in 1979(and admitted it just recently) why did some think they wouldn't lie again

[Hibby Bairn]

Salmonds gone.

Almost got it right. Only 3 hours out.

No option. His race is run. Arguably SNPs race is also run for another 30 years as well.

[Pretty Boy]

massive respect for the man, over to you nicola(or swinney)

He's grown on me in the last few weeks.

Love him or loathe him you couldn't ignore him and he had one hell of a career.

[carnoustiehibee]

Here we go guys and girls

Less than 10 hours after the vote being decided the Westminster government are welching on their vow.

All you NO's have been. Misled and duped. Better together my arse.

We've all been had. :fuming::fuming::fuming:

Yip, NO voters should hang there heads in shame. They all zip up the ****ing back.

[the_ginger_hibee]

He's grown on me in the last few weeks.

Love him or loathe him you couldn't ignore him and he had one hell of a career.

He will be missed and the difference in the Scottish independence movement from when Salmond begun his career to now is massive.

However the popularity of Sturgeon - in the day and age of 'personality politics', especially with the now key Females and potentially pensioners, could be massive for the SNP / future independence prospects.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Almost got it right. Only 3 hours out.

No option. His race is run. Arguably SNPs race is also run for another 30 years as well.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[Phil D. Rolls]

He will be missed and the difference in the Scottish independence movement from when Salmond begun his career to now is massive.

However the popularity of Sturgeon - in the day and age of 'personality politics', especially with the now key Females and potentially pensioners, could be massive for the SNP / future independence prospects.

Is she popular with anybody?

[One Day Soon]

If you were a betting man you'd be having some on Salmond to go within a week too.

Did anyone get on this?

[Colonel_HFC]

Yip, NO voters should hang there heads in shame. They all zip up the ****ing back.

I'm pretty sure they won't be hanging their heads. More like breathing a sigh of relief and getting on with life.

[overdrive]

He's grown on me in the last few weeks.

Love him or loathe him you couldn't ignore him and he had one hell of a career.

Best politician in the UK for a generation. I didn't agree with his two main policies (independence and Trident) but I think he and the SNP have done a decent job in the Scottish Parliament. I'm not a fan of Nicola Sturgeon.

[Colonel_HFC]

Is she popular with anybody?

Unfortunately it seems that she is. A lot (myself included) find her repulsive beyond words (excluding physical appearance).

[Gus]

Here we go guys and girls

Less than 10 hours after the vote being decided the Westminster government are welching on their vow.

All you NO's have been. Misled and duped. Better together my arse.

We've all been had. :fuming::fuming::fuming:

Where does it say this?

[Gus]

Yip, NO voters should hang there heads in shame. They all zip up the ****ing back.

?? Show me the link? Genuine would like to see this as it wasn't mentioned by Salmond????

[SteveHFC]

James CookVerified account ‏@BBCJamesCook (https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook) Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the prime minister said it was a meaningless process.

[Gatecrasher]

?? Show me the link? Genuine would like to see this as it wasn't mentioned by Salmond????

All he said was that Cameron couldn't guarantee Gordon Brown's timetable on the new powers, and the pundits think it would probably be down to the election next year.

[One Day Soon]

I've NEVER EVER classed or called myself as British and never will...

Sadly too many folk were too scared and let fear rule their choice rather than choose to be proud Scots...

We are proud Scots. You don't own Scottish patriotism just because you drape yourself in Yes.

[Colonel_HFC]

Comparing the hungry in the UK to those in other countries, suggests that the poor in other countries aren't obese. Just an observation.

And a good one!

[MyJo]

?? Show me the link? Genuine would like to see this as it wasn't mentioned by Salmond????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29277527

Watch the video as strangely it isn't mentioned in the text of the story

[CropleyWasGod]

We are proud Scots. You don't own Scottish patriotism just because you drape yourself in Yes.

Agreed.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Almost got it right. Only 3 hours out.

No option. His race is run. Arguably SNPs race is also run for another 30 years as well.


i don't see why :dunno:, they've run a very Adequate Government for the last few years now, the alternative to them is seriously quite scary


He's grown on me in the last few weeks.

Love him or loathe him you couldn't ignore him and he had one hell of a career.



indeed :agree: certainly earned his pension :)

[Gus]

James CookVerified account ‏@BBCJamesCook (https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook) Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the prime minister said it was a meaningless process.

So it's a twitter fact but Salmond has not mentioned when stipulating he is resigning?

Maybe the timetable is meaningless as it's going to go through quickly or as already agreed it will be with the 18 months that have already been agreed with the negoiation period??

[Hibby Bairn]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

SNP talent pool is very Shallow. Salmond was it really. Sturgeon has grown quite a bit but she doesn't have enough in her to do it. Swinney tried and failed. No one else there.

[MyJo]

So it's a twitter fact but Salmond has not mentioned when stipulating he is resigning?

Maybe the timetable is meaningless as it's going to go through quickly or as already agreed it will be with the 18 months that have already been agreed with the negoiation period??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29277527

[Cropley10]

Beyond gutted, I feel like my country has voted itself out of existence. Hopefully won't feel like that for ever.

Enjoy your celebrations No people. I think even some of you may see it as a pyrrhic victory in the end. "English votes for English laws" doesn't sound like what the Labour bods had in mind.

Thanks to all, Yes and No, that contributed to a great thread. Lots of good points mostly well argued I thought. Where I crossed the line, I re-apologise.

Hoping there aren't any celebrations - just a desire to get on with seeing these pledges on new powers being upheld.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pete]

If you were a betting man you'd be having some on Salmond to go within a week too.

Arghhh!

[Colonel_HFC]

I think its sunny here 20% of the time. Coincidence? :greengrin

Yes, unless it's been sunny for the last 5 years and rainy before that. Bu then Scotland would have serious water shortage problems and I've not heard about that.

[One Day Soon]

The others won't either but they'd rather be classed as cowards than be known at Scottish..

Don't know many no voters but the ones I do certainly "think" they class themself as Scottish not British..

They need a wake up call..

Embarrassment to their heritage


That is a disgraceful post.

[calumhibee1]

James CookVerified account ‏@BBCJamesCook (https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook) Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the prime minister said it was a meaningless process.

I had no doubts it would happen, but I certainly didn't think that it would be 10 hours or so before they'd went back on all the promises they had made. :bitchy:

[Gus]

All he said was that Cameron couldn't guarantee Gordon Brown's timetable on the new powers, and the pundits think it would probably be down to the election next year.

:aok: Yes folk just jumping on it then.

[Colonel_HFC]

FFS :rolleyes:

Yes, how dare I move abroad!

[Colonel_HFC]

We are proud Scots. You don't own Scottish patriotism just because you drape yourself in Yes.

👌

[Gatecrasher]

:aok: Yes folk just jumping on it then.
"We now have the opportunity to hold Westminster's feet to the fire on the 'vow' that they have made to devolve further meaningful power to Scotland," he said, adding: "This places Scotland in a very strong position.

"I spoke to the prime minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote (in the House of Commons) by 27th March on a Scotland Bill.

[degenerated]

Yep, getting shafted already. Lying *******s
Milibellend states his position too!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/19/319471261d9f7b22fae14081bf44b9e0.jpg

[Gus]

"We now have the opportunity to hold Westminster's feet to the fire on the 'vow' that they have made to devolve further meaningful power to Scotland," he said, adding: "This places Scotland in a very strong position.

"I spoke to the prime minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote (in the House of Commons) by 27th March on a Scotland Bill.

I guess there will be people feeling duped but we will wait and see......wasn't the reason for me to voting no.

Whose to say if it ws a Yes vote then 10 hours later Salmond comes out saying he was upping taxes to 40%

[DaveF]

"We now have the opportunity to hold Westminster's feet to the fire on the 'vow' that they have made to devolve further meaningful power to Scotland," he said, adding: "This places Scotland in a very strong position.

"I spoke to the prime minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote (in the House of Commons) by 27th March on a Scotland Bill.

So is he committed or not?

Next, it'll be a delay due to the general election, then a new Govt has to be put in place and before you know it the Scotland Bill has dropped of the radar.

I assume you'll not be happy if that - reasonably likely - scenario pans out.

[Hibby Bairn]

Labour will renege on promises. If they don't then they risk poltical wilderness in England forever. Their UK strength is underpinned by Wales and Scotland MPs.

[lobster]

Yes, how dare I move abroad!

Im not referring to that but that judging by your posts you seem unable to present your ideas in a coherent fashion.
I could give a flying **** at a rolling doughnut whether you live here or on the moon.
Desist. Please.

[One Day Soon]

I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

Fair play to you.

[Scottie]

I guess there will be people feeling duped but we will wait and see......wasn't the reason for me to voting no.

Whose to say if it ws a Yes vote then 10 hours later Salmond comes out saying he was upping taxes to 40%

Your damn right people will be feeling duped but like you they will say that wasn't the reason they voted no :fibber: Better together :LOL:

[DaveF]

I guess there will be people feeling duped but we will wait and see......wasn't the reason for me to voting no.

Whose to say if it ws a Yes vote then 10 hours later Salmond comes out saying he was upping taxes to 40%

haha, come on Gus, that's a belter - up there with great depression scare stories :greengrin

[Colonel_HFC]

Im not referring to that but that judging by your posts you seem unable to present your ideas in a coherent fashion.
I could give a flying **** at a rolling doughnut whether you live here or on the moon.
Desist. Please.

If you don't care then you need to say "couldn't" and not "could" give a flying ****.

[marinello59]

Please desist from making things personal and stick to the issues. Posts will be deleted.

[Colonel_HFC]

Your damn right people will be feeling duped but like you they will say that wasn't the reason they voted no :fibber: Better together :LOL:

Wouldn't have been my reason. Couldn't care less about it. Those are things that Scotland never had when I was growing up and working there and it made no difference.

[Beefster]

there seems to be very little being done in the deprived areas to ease the crisis at the food banks by the government.

Presumably now that independence isn't happening, the SNP will scrap free prescriptions and council tax freezes pretty sharpish and divert the money to help those in deprived areas?


Wow. We are entering the realms of the ridiculous now. What happened to the pre-vote Scottish values of tolerance and respect for others we boasted about. Now it seems if they don't agree with us they are fair game for abuse.

It's not entirely unexpected. When folk whip themselves up into a frenzy and convince themselves that something is definitely happening, they tend to lash out at everything moving when it doesn't happen.

[carnoustiehibee]

[QUOTE=Beefster;4174543]Presumably now that independence isn't happening, the SNP will scrap free prescriptions and council tax freezes pretty sharpish and divert the money to help those in deprived areas?

Or people coulda vote yes and kept the free prescriptions and used the money squandered by Westminster on trident, wars and offshore tax havens and helped the deprived areas aswell.

[Betty Boop]

According to this, the second reading of the Scotland Bill was scheduled for after the General Election.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx58luoIcAAQvg2.jpg

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes, its hard to maintain a proud sense of ourselves when the majority of our compatriots collectively pish their pants.
I hope you keep going with what you are doing though. The tyranny of a fearful majority doesn't spea'k for us and hopefully people abroad can see that.
All the best.

Cheers lobster. Like most cultures our folklore has been passed down through the generations in poetry, tales and song. There's one common denominator that threads it's way through our cultural heritage and that's that we never give up in the face of tyranny and adversity. That characteristic be it true or false took a bashing yesterday.

[DaveF]

According to this, the second reading of the Scotland Bill was scheduled for after the General Election.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx58luoIcAAQvg2.jpg

According to this BBC report 27th March (as quoted by Salmond) so someone has it wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441

[Hibrandenburg]

Deary me..............didn't we take the p*ss out of kickback for that sort of chat ?

Ok, point taken. Died might be a bit exaggerated but it certainly took a bashing.

[Betty Boop]

According to this BBC report 27th March (as quoted by Salmond) so someone has it wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441


They're aw liars. :greengrin

[DaveF]

According to this, the second reading of the Scotland Bill was scheduled for after the General Election.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx58luoIcAAQvg2.jpg

Milliband is quoted as saying a Labour Govt would deliver it (after an election win obviously) so maybe that's where your stuff comes from.

Miliband underwrote Brown's pledge, saying: "If we win the general election we will move with the utmost speed in our first Queen's speech to enact this legislation. It is Scottish Labour who have drawn up a timetable and a plan for a new Scotland Act. A Labour government will deliver it."

[Hibrandenburg]

Of all the posts I've read I think this is the most pathetic and stupid one. Well done, on this thread that's quite an achievement.

Sometimes when you disagree with someone it's better to say nothing.

Do you suffer from some kind of cyber Tourette syndrome?

[Hibby Bairn]

According to this BBC report 27th March (as quoted by Salmond) so someone has it wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441

27th March was date promised by Gordon Brown.

[Colonel_HFC]

[QUOTE=Beefster;4174543]Presumably now that independence isn't happening, the SNP will scrap free prescriptions and council tax freezes pretty sharpish and divert the money to help those in deprived areas?

Or people coulda vote yes and kept the free prescriptions and used the money squandered by Westminster on trident, wars and offshore tax havens and helped the deprived areas aswell.

Don't you realise that a huge amount of No voters and businesses would actually leave Scotland if it became independent? And who would leave? Those that could. And who can leave without too much difficulty? Two groups really: those that have the capital to invest or live elsewhere or those that have the skills / education to be easily sought after by foreign employers (both are groups that you really don't want to leave). If you think this is nonsense then you are delusional and have only been talking to / listening to Yes voters. So there would be a huge talent shortage and, with people leaving, a massive fall in property prices. The whole idea was poorly thought out and poorly presented. Half of the SNP's strategy was to pull at people's heart strings and hope that would be enough. It's obvious (now that the vote was No), if it wasn't before that their ideas were badly thought through and poorly backed up.

They would not have the money or the means to help all these people that are apparently not being helped as part of the UK. It would probably be much worse. And, despite all the Yes campaigning and stupid complacency by the No campaign, people just realised this.

[DaveF]

Presumably now that independence isn't happening, the SNP will scrap free prescriptions and council tax freezes pretty sharpish and divert the money to help those in deprived areas?

Suits me. It's free prescriptions which has kept the over 55's alive for so long and led to them voting No.




















(please note this is a joke :greengrin)

[DaveF]

27th March was date promised by Gordon Brown.

Which Dave, Nick and Ed all immediately signed up to.

Erm, or not as it now turns out.

[Colonel_HFC]

Sometimes when you disagree with someone it's better to say nothing.

Do you suffer from some kind of cyber Tourette syndrome?

In case you didn't realise, this is an internet forum. If you can't openly disagree with someone here then where can you? Or is it only ok to disagree if you are agreeing with the majority on the forum. If you don't like my views then get the admin people to block me - I really won't bother trying to come back with a different user name. But it doesn't really send a good message to silence people that you don't agree with, or to tell them to say nothing if they are going to post something you don't agree with.

[DaveF]

Labour will renege on promises. If they don't then they risk poltical wilderness in England forever. Their UK strength is underpinned by Wales and Scotland MPs.

You got that right

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29281819

Here's hoping they are booted square in the betty swollocks (and thereafter into the wilderness)

[Moulin Yarns]

In case you didn't realise, this is an internet forum. If you can't openly disagree with someone here then where can you? Or is it only ok to disagree if you are agreeing with the majority on the forum. If you don't like my views then get the admin people to block me - I really won't bother trying to come back with a different user name. But it doesn't really send a good message to silence people that you don't agree with, or to tell them to say nothing if they are going to post something you don't agree with.

I'm guessing you missed my advice earlier.

[Colonel_HFC]

I'm guessing you missed my advice earlier.

You're basically telling me to shut up because I am saying things that most people (here at least) don't agree with. Well a hell of a lot of people said things that I don't agree with and think are ridiculous. But I just tried to argue back. I didn't say they should shut up or say nothing.

[Hibby Bairn]

Oh dear. Images of unrest in George Square, Glasgow. Crowd divided by police.

[Canongatehibs]

Rangers supporting Loyalists in George sq.

cheers JK Rowling

[Canongatehibs]

loyalists in George Sq.

Scotland 2014.

[blaikie]

loyalists in George Sq.

Scotland 2014.

Disturbing watching those *******s at the best of times but that looks horrific no place for these thugs in society!

[stoneyburn hibs]

loyalists in George Sq.

Scotland 2014.

I'm in the weedge for Still game tonight, heading towards that area after, hope they are gone.

[Colonel_HFC]

Disturbing watching those *******s at the best of times but that looks horrific no place for these thugs in society!

Agreed, regardless of how you voted.

Most of them probably didn't bother...

[MSK]

Guys, emotions are running high ..lets please keep the personal stuff out of it thanks ..:aok:

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=carnoustiehibee;4174547]

Don't you realise that a huge amount of No voters and businesses would actually leave Scotland if it became independent? And who would leave? Those that could. And who can leave without too much difficulty? Two groups really: those that have the capital to invest or live elsewhere or those that have the skills / education to be easily sought after by foreign employers (both are groups that you really don't want to leave). If you think this is nonsense then you are delusional and have only been talking to / listening to Yes voters. So there would be a huge talent shortage and, with people leaving, a massive fall in property prices. The whole idea was poorly thought out and poorly presented. Half of the SNP's strategy was to pull at people's heart strings and hope that would be enough. It's obvious (now that the vote was No), if it wasn't before that their ideas were badly thought through and poorly backed up.

They would not have the money or the means to help all these people that are apparently not being helped as part of the UK. It would probably be much worse. And, despite all the Yes campaigning and stupid complacency by the No campaign, people just realised this.

I guess that's the difference between folk like me and some ( not all ) of those who voted No. If things get tough cut and run to preserve what is yours. That's the way of things I suppose .... In my lifetime JFK said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" .......... futile naive words thrown to the wind, probably always were.

If your vision of what would have happened is true and who is to say its not ........... what a sad pathetic little world this is. I hate this version of reality and though its unlikely I will ever be able to change it I can console myself in my lack of ability to revel in it.

[Colonel_HFC]

Rangers supporting Loyalists in George sq.

cheers JK Rowling

What the hell does Harry Potter have to do with this?

[degenerated]

loyalists in George Sq.

Scotland 2014.
Here's the unionist party live

LIVE: Scots react to referendum results in Glasgow: http://youtu.be/86lrybeUXIg

[Colonel_HFC]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174567]

I guess that's the difference between folk like me and some ( not all ) of those who voted No. If things get tough cut and run to preserve what is yours. That's the way of things I suppose .... In my lifetime JFK said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" .......... futile naive words thrown to the wind, probably always were.

If your vision of what would have happened is true and who is to say its not ........... what a sad pathetic little world this is. I hate this version of reality and though its unlikely I will ever be able to change it I can console myself in my lack of ability to revel in it.

There are literally billions of people on this planet that are where they are because one of their ancestors decided not to stay somewhere that they thought was not good for them - every single (non-native) American living in the USA for instance. And in this day and age traveling and moving abroad is easier than ever. I don't blame people for moving because they are not happy with the situation where they are. That's been going on since humans existed.

[the_ginger_hibee]

Here's the unionist party live

LIVE: Scots react to referendum results in Glasgow: http://youtu.be/86lrybeUXIg

Typical. Rangers fans turning a serious, life changing issue into a wee football sing song.

'Can we hear the Yes vote sing'
'Stick the Yes vote up your arse'

Mutants.

[lobster]

If you don't care then you need to say "couldn't" and not "could" give a flying ****.

You need to stay abroad, please.

[marinello59]

Here's the unionist party live

LIVE: Scots react to referendum results in Glasgow: http://youtu.be/86lrybeUXIg

It's hardly representative of how the campaign has been conducted by either side though is it?. It's been a pretty civilised affair with the dafties on both sides comprising a tiny minority.

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;4174639]

There are literally billions of people on this planet that are where they are because one of their ancestors decided not to stay somewhere that they thought was not good for them - every single (non-native) American living in the USA for instance. And in this day and age traveling and moving abroad is easier than ever. I don't blame people for moving because they are not happy with the situation where they are. That's been going on since humans existed.

Yeh ..... I was kind of hoping the world would move on to a situation where that wouldn't entail the vulnerable and disadvantaged being left behind to deal with the crap left behind by the brain drain .......... some chance eh.

Note: Whats happening with the quotes ... when I save my post it looks like your post I am quoting was originally posted by me?

[Moulin Yarns]

Happyhibbie.

Happy to have you delete my post. But see what I originally said a page or 2 back to colonel _hfc as he was just winding folks up.

[LancashireHibby]

Such a shame to see the scenes in George Square. Rangers, Loyalist and BNP rentamob it seems. Of course if this was the scene on Wednesday then I'd at least like to think that it would be a Yes walkover.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Typical. Rangers fans turning a serious, life changing issue into a wee football sing song.

'Can we hear the Yes vote sing'
'Stick the Yes vote up your arse'

Mutants.

Not representative of the No camp. Yes had some eejits but just not as well organised as 'Bigots for No'

Better together ... unless you are a Catholic, a Muslim ...... well, anything which aint a WASP really

[Pretty Boy]

Such a shame to see the scenes in George Square. Rangers, Loyalist and BNP rentamob it seems. Of course if this was the scene on Wednesday then I'd at least like to think that it would be a Yes walkover.

Watching the live camera feed. Such a shames it's descended to that. It's erseholes like that that stop me ever identifyimg myself as British.

I know it's a minority blah blah but it's an odious, **** of the earth minority

[MSK]

Happyhibbie.

Happy to have you delete my post. But see what I originally said a page or 2 back to colonel _hfc as he was just winding folks up.GF I came onto this thread in the last two pages .. I asked folk to cut out the personal stuff, that seems to have been ignored & since then another 6 posts have been removed.

Im not getting involved in the politics of this thread nor am I gonna sit here & babysit ...if folk cant be civil to each other then the thread will just be closed.

[lord bunberry]

James CookVerified account ‏@BBCJamesCook (https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook) Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the prime minister said it was a meaningless process.

Could have told you that yesterday, what has Cameron to gain by pissing off English voters.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Happyhibbie.

Happy to have you delete my post. But see what I originally said a page or 2 back to colonel _hfc as he was just winding folks up.



he's been on here goading and gloating since it became apparent the no vote would go his way, best ignored, i'd hate for good decent posters that are still feeling emotinal to get banned because of him/it

[Stax]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174567]

I guess that's the difference between folk like me and some ( not all ) of those who voted No. If things get tough cut and run to preserve what is yours. That's the way of things I suppose .... In my lifetime JFK said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" .......... futile naive words thrown to the wind, probably always were.

If your vision of what would have happened is true and who is to say its not ........... what a sad pathetic little world this is. I hate this version of reality and though its unlikely I will ever be able to change it I can console myself in my lack of ability to revel in it.
I keep writing/deleting posts trying to articulate how I feel today. I couldn't agree more with a few of your posts today but this one really strikes a chord with me. Hopeless.. That's how I'm feeling today

[green glory]

British government have broken the 'vow' already.

No voters, what have you done to my country.



13500

[Phil D. Rolls]

Oh dear. Images of unrest in George Square, Glasgow. Crowd divided by police.

One crowd arranged to gather peaceably, another came to object to something that troubled them. Actually they were upset that no one was paying attention to them.


British government have broken the 'vow' already.

No voters, what have you done to my country.

13500

Sic a parcel o rogues in a nation.

[Colonel_HFC]

British government have broken the 'vow' already.

No voters, what have you done to my country.



13500

Voted for what they wanted apparently...

[Hibrandenburg]

British government have broken the 'vow' already.

No voters, what have you done to my country?

13500

They've downsized it to a region.

[Colonel_HFC]

They've downsized it to a region.

Which it is. But what's wrong with that? What does it matter? Countries are just regions of continents and continents are just regions of the world. Stop focusing on things that ultimately don't matter and that are just concepts that don't define you.

[McD]

I've been reading this thread frequently over the last few weeks, and I want to say thank you, and congratulations to the majority of the posters, who have conducted themselves well, with reasoned and sensible debates, from both sides, and it's been a pleasure to see out this process with you.

its disappointing to see some, again on both sides, becoming what seems to be rather argumentative and occasionally nasty to their fellow countrymen and women.

Regardless of the outcome, we were and are all going to have to move forward together as one nation, or we will falter. Seeking to apportion blame will not change the outcome, but will only succeed in extending the time the pain is felt and how well we prosper in the future.

[Colonel_HFC]

Why did I want a No vote? Because the larger the area / population that others associate me with, the less I am likely to be judged on it. I'd rather be British than Scottish, European than British and Northern Hemisphere(ish) than European and human more than that. Since aliens are either non-existent or out of reach I think that's enough for now.

[McIntosh]

Very painful to read on this thread the palpable distress of many of my countrymen and fellow Hibs supporters. The referendum campaign has been incredibly galvanising for everyone - yes and nos. I have never considered independence or union as an end in itself but a means to an end - the well-being of human beings. The purpose and nature of change will always be contested but what purpose does it really serve to denegriate and hurt people that in reality are our brother and sisters. We are attacking the flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone.

[McIntosh]

I've been reading this thread frequently over the last few weeks, and I want to say thank you, and congratulations to the majority of the posters, who have conducted themselves well, with reasoned and sensible debates, from both sides, and it's been a pleasure to see out this process with you.

its disappointing to see some, again on both sides, becoming what seems to be rather argumentative and occasionally nasty to their fellow countrymen and women.

Regardless of the outcome, we were and are all going to have to move forward together as one nation, or we will falter. Seeking to apportion blame will not change the outcome, but will only succeed in extending the time the pain is felt and how well we prosper in the future.
Great post:top marks

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why did I want a No vote? Because the larger the area / population that others associate me with, the less I am likely to be judged on it. I'd rather be British than Scottish, European than British and Northern Hemisphere(ish) than European and human more than that. Since aliens are either non-existent or out of reach I think that's enough for now.

Yeh ............ but are we out of their reach? ....... keep watching the skies :confused:

[Stax]

Very painful to read on this thread the palpable distress of many of my countrymen and fellow Hibs supporters. The referendum campaign has been incredibly galvanising for everyone - yes and nos. I have never considered independence or union as an end in itself but a means to an end - the well-being of human beings. The purpose and nature of change will always be contested but what purpose does it really serve to denegriate and hurt people that in reality are our brother and sisters. We are attacking the flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone.
Good post mate, but the reason I'm hurting is I genuinely believed independence would have given us more chance of helping our brothers & sisters.

[Swedish hibee]

Living in Sweden now, I feel so very sad as I feel this is an opportunity for Scotland that's been truly wasted.
Being part of a fair & equal country is a wonderful thing for every child born in this country. And whilst we are part of Scandinavia for geography, Sweden is very much it's own country- and NOTHING / NO AMOUNT OF MONEY would make Swede's side with the Norwegians or Finnish even though we border them and many live/work in these countries daily.

I thought it was the same for Scotland? Is the country I left behind gone forever? Or in fact was it every there at all?

[McIntosh]

Good post mate, but the reason I'm hurting is I genuinely believed independence would have given us more chance of helping our brothers & sisters.
My friend though we have never met your humanity shines through your post. It is this decency and compassion which I have always considered to be the finest qualities in people. It will be the ones that will transform Scotland from within, whatever the future holds the experience of yesterday will make us all both yeses and nos, stronger and God willing wiser.