Scottish Independence

[Ozyhibby]

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[Kato]

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Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe "Blessed Margaret's" inheritance. Banking is everything and the rest is a managed decline.

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[Stairway 2 7]

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I think America is a bad example as its so polarised the rich are rich as is the middle class but the poor are doing terribly. Life expectancy in the US is 5 years less than us and actually dropping.

I read in the FT last year that because Germany is a collection of states joined together, Italy too the economy is well spread. Countries like UK France and others that have been nations for hundreds of years have the wealth round the capital. France's gdp without Paris region would drop 16% that's the highest bar greece in Europe at 20%, Portugal 14%, Czech 14%, Denmark 14%, Sweden 12%, uk 11%, Poland 10%. Not sure what ours would be without Edinburgh probably very high.

Countries probably don't do enough to spread the wealth, I worry for Aberdeen post oil

[Pagan Hibernia]

One country, particularly Ireland, with only one surplus of cash isn't a fair comparison 🤔

:greengrin

they were happy enough to use Ireland as a comparison in 2014 when Ireland was still recovering from its crash a couple of years earlier

”we don’t want to end up like Ireland” :cb

[Ozyhibby]

I think America is a bad example as its so polarised the rich are rich as is the middle class but the poor are doing terribly. Life expectancy in the US is 5 years less than us and actually dropping.

I read in the FT last year that because Germany is a collection of states joined together, Italy too the economy is well spread. Countries like UK France and others that have been nations for hundreds of years have the wealth round the capital. France's gdp without Paris region would drop 16% that's the highest bar greece in Europe at 20%, Portugal 14%, Czech 14%, Denmark 14%, Sweden 12%, uk 11%, Poland 10%. Not sure what ours would be without Edinburgh probably very high.

Countries probably don't do enough to spread the wealth, I worry for Aberdeen post oil

I’d say that Scotland isn’t concentrated in one place? Glasgow our biggest city, Edinburgh the capital and Aberdeen the richest part of the country. And all three within commuting distance of each other.


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[grunt]

I’d say that Scotland isn’t concentrated in one place? Glasgow our biggest city, Edinburgh the capital and Aberdeen the richest part of the country. And all three within commuting distance of each other.
Interesting comment. Is Aberdeen the richest part of the country?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Interesting comment. Is Aberdeen the richest part of the country?

Bieldside is in Aberdeen and is considered the wealthiest place in Scotland. Has the most millionaires per postcode in the UK, second only to London.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting comment. Is Aberdeen the richest part of the country?

Not by gdp. Edinburgh is 25.6 billion Aberdeen is 17 billion.

Scotland is 159. So Edinburgh is 16.6% of Scotland's gdp. Scotlands gdp would drop the second furthest in Europe behind Greece.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not by gdp. Edinburgh is 25.6 billion Aberdeen is 17 billion.

Scotland is 159. So Edinburgh is 16.6% of Scotland's gdp. Scotlands gdp would drop the second furthest in Europe behind Greece.

Is Aberdeen even half the size of Edinburgh though?

Edi is less than I thought it would be on that measure. Edi + its commuter belt must account for not far off the same % of population.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Is Aberdeen even half the size of Edinburgh though?

Aberdeen's population is approximately half of that of Edinburgh. Which is why GDP per capita would be a more relevant statistic than simply the total GDP.

[Stairway 2 7]

Is Aberdeen even half the size of Edinburgh though?

Edi is less than I thought it would be on that measure. Edi + its commuter belt must account for not far off the same % of population.

Surprised its less than you thought. That is second biggest percentage for a capital in Europe as I say and many capital's have bigger % of pop.

London is 10% of pop and 11% of gdp so Scotland more Edinburgh centric. I don't think it's a big deal or unusual though as it makes sense

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/uk-stop-kidding-ourselves-rich-nation-gone-bust?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1691913257

The UK today.


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[Kato]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/uk-stop-kidding-ourselves-rich-nation-gone-bust?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1691913257

The UK today.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRinsed by you know who.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1690469037484994560?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Uk miles behind Ireland.


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[greenginger]

https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1690469037484994560?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Uk miles behind Ireland.


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Are $ 60 billion dollars worth of pharmaceuticals manufactured in the Irish Republic?

More likely the Republic is where the companies put there brass name plate for tax purposes.

[Ozyhibby]

Are $ 60 billion dollars worth of pharmaceuticals manufactured in the Irish Republic?

More likely the Republic is where the companies put there brass name plate for tax purposes.

Ireland has built a massive pharma industry from scratch in the last 20 years. The manufacturing very much happens in Ireland. Mostly on west coast away from Dublin. Amazing what you can do when you have a clear plan and powers to act in your own best interests.


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[Kato]

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-iips/irishindustrialproductionbysector2021/

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[Stairway 2 7]

We've argued before but I wouldn't like to go down Irelands and Switzerlands corporation tax route in an independent Scotland. A race to the bottom where these multinationals get to pay a tiny tax rate to make billionaires richer.

Yeah you get your bit of silver with high gdp and some high paid jobs, but it's against everything I think is right.

Germany and Holland doing great in the graph though

[Ozyhibby]

We've argued before but I wouldn't like to go down Irelands and Switzerlands corporation tax route in an independent Scotland. A race to the bottom where these multinationals get to pay a tiny tax rate to make billionaires richer.

Yeah you get your bit of silver with high gdp and some high paid jobs, but it's against everything I think is right.

Germany and Holland doing great in the graph though

We collect less corporation tax than Ireland does. The important point is that they have a plan that suits their country and it’s working very well for them. We have no plan and no ability to design a plan. We are just drifting hoping for the best.


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[Jack]

We collect less corporation tax than Ireland does. The important point is that they have a plan that suits their country and it’s working very well for them. We have no plan and no ability to design a plan. We are just drifting hoping for the best.


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We do have a plan. Well the torys do.

That's to stuff their own, their friends and their donors pockets with taxpayers money. That's always been the plan.

[Stairway 2 7]

We collect less corporation tax than Ireland does. The important point is that they have a plan that suits their country and it’s working very well for them. We have no plan and no ability to design a plan. We are just drifting hoping for the best.


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I'm sure if Scotland undercut Ireland we'd win some of Irelands multinationals, then they would cut further. I'm sure Ireland is doing well from it. Not as good as the billionaires paying a disgusting amount of tax. Low tax for high growth, Trussonomics

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure if Scotland undercut Ireland we'd win some of Irelands multinationals, then they would cut further. I'm sure Ireland is doing well from it. Not as good as the billionaires paying a disgusting amount of tax. Low tax for high growth, Trussonomics

They can’t cut lower. There is an internationally agreed floor. It’s not just about tax.


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[Stairway 2 7]

They can’t cut lower. There is an internationally agreed floor. It’s not just about tax.


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Yep true. They were at 12.5% about half most of Europe. OECD forced Ireland to agree to the tax floor. Hungary and themselves were the only two in the EU that initially disagreed. I'd be disgusted if we had 15% tax rate, Truss would be happy.

[Kato]

They can’t cut lower. There is an internationally agreed floor. It’s not just about tax.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAround 60,000 jobs in pharma manufacturing in Ireland. Only going to get bigger.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Around 60,000 jobs in pharma manufacturing in Ireland. Only going to get bigger.

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I'm not sure. I read an article from the socialist party in Ireland who have obviously always opposed Irelands low tax subsidy to the rich. They said companies like dell and Pfizer have recently closed some operations in Ireland and moved to Eastern Europe. Poland has a slightly higher tax rate but wages in the sector are a third of Irelands. Perfect storm for multinationals, low wages, poor workers rights and low tax.

Truss did try to lower taxes originally but too late
https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/astrazeneca-ceo-cites-discouraging-uk-tax-rate-behind-decision-build-ireland

'Discouraging' UK tax rate swayed AstraZeneca to build $400M plant in Ireland, CEO says

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure. I read an article from the socialist party in Ireland who have obviously always opposed Irelands low tax subsidy to the rich. They said companies like dell and Pfizer have recently closed some operations in Ireland and moved to Eastern Europe. Poland has a slightly higher tax rate but wages in the sector are a third of Irelands. Perfect storm for multinationals, low wages, poor workers rights and low tax.

Truss did try to lower taxes originally but too late
https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/astrazeneca-ceo-cites-discouraging-uk-tax-rate-behind-decision-build-ireland

'Discouraging' UK tax rate swayed AstraZeneca to build $400M plant in Ireland, CEO says

I’m not really advocating Irelands path. The Dane’s do things very differently but result is the same. They are both miles ahead of Scotland.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not really advocating Irelands path. The Dane’s do things very differently but result is the same. They are both miles ahead of Scotland.


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Most are ahead of the uk on business and we'll get further away thanks to brexit. Scotland has the advantage of a very educated population, post independence and in EU obviously though

[Moulin Yarns]

It's GERS day. Prepare yourselves

[Ozyhibby]

It's GERS day. Prepare yourselves

Prob be better this year but that doesn’t change the fact that they don’t tell us anything about an independent Scotland.


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[Ozyhibby]

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[TrumpIsAPeado]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230816/92203221cc2b11ab342f156cf492161d.jpgSent from my iPhone using TapatalkGot to wonder what the 1/5th of Lab/LibDem voters are hoping to accomplish.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Hasn't this been the case since the independence referendum yet 10 years later

@yougov
Were a new Scottish referendum to be held, how would you vote 52% to 48% in favour of No


Yes was ahead for a while but the SNP polling free fall has merged into independence a bit it seems.

Westminster Voting Intention still hasn't bottomed it seems, the drop since 2021 is crazy

Labour are now just 4pts behind the SNP in Scotland in our Westminster voting intention

SNP: 36% (-1 from Apr)
Lab: 32% (+4)
Con: 15% (-2)
Lib Dem: 6% (-2)

Highest Labour result since the referendum, worst for SNP since 2018

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/08/16/snp-lead-westminster-polling-down-four-points

[Ozyhibby]

Hasn't this been the case since the independence referendum yet 10 years later

@yougov
Were a new Scottish referendum to be held, how would you vote 52% to 48% in favour of No


Yes was ahead for a while but the SNP polling free fall has merged into independence a bit it seems.

Westminster Voting Intention still hasn't bottomed it seems, the drop since 2021 is crazy

Labour are now just 4pts behind the SNP in Scotland in our Westminster voting intention

SNP: 36% (-1 from Apr)
Lab: 32% (+4)
Con: 15% (-2)
Lib Dem: 6% (-2)

Highest Labour result since the referendum, worst for SNP since 2018

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/08/16/snp-lead-westminster-polling-down-four-points

52-48 is better than 55-45 is it not?


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[Stairway 2 7]

52-48 is better than 55-45 is it not?


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Yeah but it is one poll their poll has been bouncing up and down a few points at a time, but this last year and a half its been consistently no.

What's changing in the next say 4 years, zilch. More of the same snp/green coalition yes no bouncing a point here or there. This is surely what no parties want, continuity like humza campaigned on. Surely we need to try something different or is it just more of the same

[He's here!]

Prob be better this year but that doesn’t change the fact that they don’t tell us anything about an independent Scotland. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSo the SNP would have us believe. In fact they loved the Gers numbers ahead of the 2014 referendum because they showed our deficit being smaller than the UK's thanks to North Sea oil and that's what they based their economic case on. They obviously changed their tune when those projected revenues plummeted, but the fact is the Gers figures remain the best guide available to where an independent Scotland would start from. As things stand that would be an unsustainable deficit.

[Kato]

So the SNP would have us believe. In fact they loved the Gers numbers ahead of the 2014 referendum because they showed our deficit being smaller than the UK's thanks to North Sea oil and that's what they based their economic case on. They obviously changed their tune when those projected revenues plummeted, but the fact is the Gers figures remain the best guide available to where an independent Scotland would start from. As things stand that would be an unsustainable deficit.Have the figures not changed because Westminster is so profligate, and we pony up for their mistakes?

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[degenerated]

So the SNP would have us believe. In fact they loved the Gers numbers ahead of the 2014 referendum because they showed our deficit being smaller than the UK's thanks to North Sea oil and that's what they based their economic case on. They obviously changed their tune when those projected revenues plummeted, but the fact is the Gers figures remain the best guide available to where an independent Scotland would start from. As things stand that would be an unsustainable deficit.When a 70 page report that requires the use of the word estimate 140 times i think I'll pass on wasting any time on reading it.

[archie]

When a 70 page report that requires the use of the word estimate 140 times i think I'll pass on wasting any time on reading it.

Could you not get a message to the Scottish Government that the figures they are using aren't the gold standard they claim they are?

[JeMeSouviens]

Hasn't this been the case since the independence referendum yet 10 years later

@yougov
Were a new Scottish referendum to be held, how would you vote 52% to 48% in favour of No


Yes was ahead for a while but the SNP polling free fall has merged into independence a bit it seems.

Westminster Voting Intention still hasn't bottomed it seems, the drop since 2021 is crazy

Labour are now just 4pts behind the SNP in Scotland in our Westminster voting intention

SNP: 36% (-1 from Apr)
Lab: 32% (+4)
Con: 15% (-2)
Lib Dem: 6% (-2)

Highest Labour result since the referendum, worst for SNP since 2018

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/08/16/snp-lead-westminster-polling-down-four-points

The Indy numbers are markedly better for Yes in this poll than Yougov’s last poll in June.

[Stairway 2 7]

The Indy numbers are markedly better for Yes in this poll than Yougov’s last poll in June.

Last summer no was 55% then last winter 47%, this summer 54%. For the last 10 years it's just bounced up and down a few points without ever staying one direction long

[Ozyhibby]

Last summer no was 55% then last winter 47%, this summer 54%. For the last 10 years it's just bounced up and down a few points without ever staying one direction long

Where is the 54?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Where is the 54?


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Yougov June it's 2 down from that now. It might go down further might go up a bit. If it's like the last 10 years it'll do both on and on

[JimBHibees]

It is bizarre that yes isn't higher given what is undoubtedly the most corrupt and also anti Scottish U.K. Government ever I think. Obviously snp issues have contributed to that however a bigger factor imo is the media domination of the status quo opinion. No doubt a fair number banking on Sir Keir.

[grunt]

It is bizarre that yes isn't higher given what is undoubtedly the most corrupt and also anti Scottish U.K. Government ever I think. Obviously snp issues have contributed to that however a bigger factor imo is the media domination of the status quo opinion. No doubt a fair number banking on Sir Keir.What SNP issues?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c512zl7jj04o?at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=7A300116-35AF-11EE-B185-8B77AD7C7D13&at_link_origin=BBCNewsNI&at_format=link&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_campaign_type=owned&at_campaign=Social_Flow

Only the BBC could frame this as a problem.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Last summer no was 55% then last winter 47%, this summer 54%. For the last 10 years it's just bounced up and down a few points without ever staying one direction long

Uh-huh. But this ...



Yes was ahead for a while but the SNP polling free fall has merged into independence a bit it seems.


... is baws.

[He's here!]

What SNP issues?I salute your indefatigability.

[He's here!]

It is bizarre that yes isn't higher given what is undoubtedly the most corrupt and also anti Scottish U.K. Government ever I think. Obviously snp issues have contributed to that however a bigger factor imo is the media domination of the status quo opinion. No doubt a fair number banking on Sir Keir.Not so bizarre for those underwhelmed by the prospect of a bampot SNP/Green coalition leading us to the promised land.

[Ozyhibby]

Not so bizarre for those underwhelmed by the prospect of a bampot SNP/Green coalition leading us to the promised land.

Delivering for Scotland though. Zero strikes in our NHS.


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[Kato]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c512zl7jj04o?at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=7A300116-35AF-11EE-B185-8B77AD7C7D13&at_link_origin=BBCNewsNI&at_format=link&at_link_type=web_link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_campaign_type=owned&at_campaign=Social_Flow

Only the BBC could frame this as a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah, I hate it when I'm knocking around with an extra billion or two in my pocket. Such a worry. [emoji45]

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[lapsedhibee]

Yeah, I hate it when I'm knocking around with an extra billion or two in my pocket. Such a worry. [emoji45]


Surely some of it could be channelled to England, in the same way that the excess of water in Scotland should be? For a better balance in the islands as a whole.

[Kato]

Surely some of it could be channelled to England, in the same way that the excess of water in Scotland should be? For a better balance in the islands as a whole.Yeah, it's ludicrous the way Ireland treats the UK. Or something like that.

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[lapsedhibee]

Yeah, it's ludicrous the way Ireland treats the UK. Or something like that.


It's not just that Ireland's making a surplus. They're doing it deliberately.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not so bizarre for those underwhelmed by the prospect of a bampot SNP/Green coalition leading us to the promised land.

"All aboard the Tory train, next stop Poverty on the Corruption Express".

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23730195.ex-scottish-labour-chief-cant-argue-union-like-used/
Welcome aboard.


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[grunt]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23730195.ex-scottish-labour-chief-cant-argue-union-like-used/Welcome aboard.Probably told to say that by her wife.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23730195.ex-scottish-labour-chief-cant-argue-union-like-used/
Welcome aboard.


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Having seen her today at the book festival I can confirm she said exactly that. She is also no longer a member of the Labour Party in Scotland.

She will still vote Labour at the general election but believes a second referendum will happen.

It was a very good event.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1681724777080279040?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Here is a non Irish policy an Indy Scotland should consider.


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[Andy Bee]

https://twitter.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1681724777080279040?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Here is a non Irish policy an Indy Scotland should consider.


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Estonia have a lot of really interesting policies, they basically sacked the whole Government after gaining independence. IIRC the oldest person in the new Government was 33 and that was the PM, they thought holding onto politicians from the old communist Government would hinder them and wanted a new start with youth who had a better understanding of technology. If it takes 5 minutes to do your tax return in Estonia then somethings broken. I.D. cards which hold all information about you from medical to financial but you have to authorise anyone who wants to look at that info. A basic 20% income tax for everyone although that's starting to add to inequality.

I often think of them when there's the usual arguments around here about what currency, pensions we'd use etc, I don't think that's the SNP's place to decide what systems should be in place after independence.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/innealadair/status/1692488392443941073?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://indyvoices.info/whos-really-ahead

Interesting article on polling.


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[JimBHibees]

What SNP issues?

Education and internal financial issues mainly however in general have been pretty ok with how they have run the country.

[cabbageandribs1875]

indeed

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369609880_695008382656590_5562780242958784234_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FWOHiv66WWQAX9sUCFj&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCf9vIhGVrOb8QwTpYnBE2EUah5qZcdfZCajA7_UUxN eQ&oe=64E90A73

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/analysis-snps-positive-response-to-tom-hunter-proposals-further-sign-of-pro-business-swerve-4265780

Now this is a genuine surprise. And a big break from Sturgeon policy. Obviously we don’t have the power to do this but will get business community on board.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/analysis-snps-positive-response-to-tom-hunter-proposals-further-sign-of-pro-business-swerve-4265780

Now this is a genuine surprise. And a big break from Sturgeon policy. Obviously we don’t have the power to do this but will get business community on board.


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Prick who last year wanted us to pause the independence debate and said the independence debate is full of TBC's. I'm shocked this big business vulture wants businesses to pay less tax, Trussonomics

[Ozyhibby]

Prick who last year wanted us to pause the independence debate and said the independence debate is full of TBC's. I'm shocked this big business vulture wants businesses to pay less tax, Trussonomics

Did Truss change business tax rates?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Did Truss change business tax rates?


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She opposed the rise and has along with her IEA backers been calling for the lowering of corporation tax for a decade. Low tax high growth, pretty much the opposite of what SNP go for thankfully.

[Ozyhibby]

She opposed the rise and has along with her IEA backers been calling for the lowering of corporation tax for a decade. Low tax high growth, pretty much the opposite of what SNP go for thankfully.

But she didn’t do anything in corporation tax. What she did do was slash income tax rates for high earners. That is not progressive at all.
Low business tax is good for an economy so long as you are taxing the owners of the business progressively.


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[greenginger]

But she didn’t do anything in corporation tax. What she did do was slash income tax rates for high earners. That is not progressive at all.
Low business tax is good for an economy so long as you are taxing the owners of the business progressively.


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And if the owners of the low taxed businesses reside in Switzerland Monaco or even Jersey ?

[CropleyWasGod]

But she didn’t do anything in corporation tax. What she did do was slash income tax rates for high earners. That is not progressive at all.
Low business tax is good for an economy so long as you are taxing the owners of the business progressively.


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And if the owners of the low taxed businesses reside in Switzerland Monaco or even Jersey ?

I'd say it's not that relevant where the owners live.

If the business is making money, it pays its CT here. If it's successful, it's providing jobs (and tax income) here.

As long as the overall income to the economy is more than the alternative, it's a win.

[Kato]

And if the owners of the low taxed businesses reside in Switzerland Monaco or even Jersey ?Ban shell companies.

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[Stairway 2 7]

But she didn’t do anything in corporation tax. What she did do was slash income tax rates for high earners. That is not progressive at all.
Low business tax is good for an economy so long as you are taxing the owners of the business progressively.


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She announced that she was cancelling the planned corporation tax rise in March. She uturned when on all her tax cuts and cancelling planned rises when she collapsed the economy. Her and her iea backers have wanted low corporation tax for over a decade. Utter tory pater shrinking corporation tax in giving relief to multinationals. Race to the bottom whilst big business rubs its hands.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-corporation-tax-rise-25-19-this-april-daily-telegraph-2022-10-14/

To be fair the telegraph has been pushing low corporation tax for decades too

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/24/priti-patel-urges-jeremy-hunt-back-business-cut-corporation/

[Ozyhibby]

She announced that she was cancelling the planned corporation tax rise in March. She uturned when on all her tax cuts and cancelling planned rises when she collapsed the economy. Her and her iea backers have wanted low corporation tax for over a decade. Utter tory pater shrinking corporation tax in giving relief to multinationals. Race to the bottom whilst big business rubs its hands.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-corporation-tax-rise-25-19-this-april-daily-telegraph-2022-10-14/

To be fair the telegraph has been pushing low corporation tax for decades too

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/24/priti-patel-urges-jeremy-hunt-back-business-cut-corporation/

Better to tax 25% of nothing than 15% of a lot.[emoji106]


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[greenginger]

I'd say it's not that relevant where the owners live.

If the business is making money, it pays its CT here. If it's successful, it's providing jobs (and tax income) here.

As long as the overall income to the economy is more than the alternative, it's a win.

But if is business is paying whacking great salaries and fees to owners living in tax havens there might be very little profit for CT to be applied to.

I read Jim Radcliffe saved about £6 billion by moving to Monaco.

[Stairway 2 7]

But if is business is paying whacking great salaries and fees to owners living in tax havens there might be very little profit for CT to be applied to.

I read Jim Radcliffe saved about £6 billion by moving to Monaco.

Pharmaceutical and E companies save billions in registering in the bahamas. They then move to where they can pay the least in tax and wages combined. Hence Intel jumping from Ireland with low tax to Slovenia a bit more tax but much less wages.

There is some trickle down as Truss told us, but the real winners are the billionaire owners and their shareholders. They then get there papers to tell us they aren't robbing us, it's the benefits thieves and immigrants

[Hibrandenburg]

Pharmaceutical and E companies save billions in registering in the bahamas. They then move to where they can pay the least in tax and wages combined. Hence Intel jumping from Ireland with low tax to Slovenia a bit more tax but much less wages.

There is some trickle down as Truss told us, but the real winners are the billionaire owners and their shareholders. They then get there papers to tell us they aren't robbing us, it's the benefits thieves and immigrants


:agree:

You'd think in the digital age that people would understand this.

[Ozyhibby]

But if is business is paying whacking great salaries and fees to owners living in tax havens there might be very little profit for CT to be applied to.

I read Jim Radcliffe saved about £6 billion by moving to Monaco.

CT is applied before the owners can take money out.


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[Ozyhibby]

Pharmaceutical and E companies save billions in registering in the bahamas. They then move to where they can pay the least in tax and wages combined. Hence Intel jumping from Ireland with low tax to Slovenia a bit more tax but much less wages.

There is some trickle down as Truss told us, but the real winners are the billionaire owners and their shareholders. They then get there papers to tell us they aren't robbing us, it's the benefits thieves and immigrants

Ireland is taking in so much tax money they literally don’t know what to do with it. I’m amazed people still think the UK is getting it right and not Ireland.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Ireland is taking in so much tax money they literally don’t know what to do with it. I’m amazed people still think the UK is getting it right and not Ireland.


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No one thinks the uk is getting it right but it's deeper than corporation tax. Germany has a corporation tax double Irelands but still has good revenues. Ireland and Hungary pushed against the EU going for the raising of corporation tax to 15%. I wish they would raise that to 20%

Its all mute as thankfully the SNP are pro fair tax levels. In the same Daily Mail article Tom Hunter was pushing low tax he was warning against high top tax rate as people will move south. Low tax high growth

[Ozyhibby]

No one thinks the uk is getting it right but it's deeper than corporation tax. Germany has a corporation tax double Irelands but still has good revenues. Ireland and Hungary pushed against the EU going for the raising of corporation tax to 15%. I wish they would raise that to 20%

Its all mute as thankfully the SNP are pro fair tax levels. In the same Daily Mail article Tom Hunter was pushing low tax he was warning against high top tax rate as people will move south. Low tax high growth

Ireland is not Germany though. The same solutions won’t work for both countries. Germany is in the heart of Europe and Ireland is very much on the periphery. Ireland are doing what works for them and the Germans are doing what works for them. That’s how it should be.
All I am saying is that Scotland needs to find something that works for us because we are falling miles behind the rest of Europe. And I don’t think anyone in London is giving a second thought as to what might work for Scotland. We have not even entered their minds.
We are drifting along just hoping for the best. There is no plan at all.


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[CropleyWasGod]

But if is business is paying whacking great salaries and fees to owners living in tax havens there might be very little profit for CT to be applied to.

I read Jim Radcliffe saved about £6 billion by moving to Monaco.

That would happen irrespective of the CT rate.

The key thing is the overall contribution to the economy.

[CropleyWasGod]

CT is applied before the owners can take money out.


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Not exactly.

Salaries are deducted from profits, to establish the tax charge. Dividends aren't. GG was talking about salaries.

[Ozyhibby]

Not exactly.

Salaries are deducted from profits, to establish the tax charge. Dividends aren't. GG was talking about salaries.

We can’t tax people who don’t live here, I think that’s well established and there is no way to change that.
We also can’t tax companies that don’t come here.


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[CropleyWasGod]

We can’t tax people who don’t live here, I think that’s well established and there is no way to change that.
We also can’t tax companies that don’t come here.


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Not sure of your point?

[greenginger]

Not sure of your point?

I think the point is , we need company tax levels at rates that encourage businesses to set up and remain here. We also need income tax rates that business owners will be comfortable paying.

It’s a balancing act between maximum revenue and killing the goose.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the point is , we need company tax levels at rates that encourage businesses to set up and remain here. We also need income tax rates that business owners will be comfortable paying.

It’s a balancing act between maximum revenue and killing the goose.

I’m not worried about the personal tax rates as much. These types of businesses tend to have many many owners and not all of them individuals.
But we do need to encourage business to come here. That’s not happening just now despite the SG’s best efforts.


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[greenginger]

I’m not worried about the personal tax rates as much. These types of businesses tend to have many many owners and not all of them individuals.
But we do need to encourage business to come here. That’s not happening just now despite the SG’s best efforts.


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I don’t think many start ups have many many owners and we need those types of businesses as well.

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/holyrood-sources/id1673972192?i=1000625421343

Last ten minutes of today’s podcast talks about Tom Hunters intervention yesterday. Interesting listen.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://archive.ph/laYte

Alba won't compete in Rutherglen, should be good for 50 votes. He's threatening the SNP with competing every seat at Westminster if they don't create Scotland united strategy. I don't get it if we are to put up just one independence mp per seat, wouldn't that be SNP in every seat and not Alba

[Ozyhibby]

https://archive.ph/laYte

Alba won't compete in Rutherglen, should be good for 50 votes. He's threatening the SNP with competing every seat at Westminster if they don't create Scotland united strategy. I don't get it if we are to put up just one independence mp per seat, wouldn't that be SNP in every seat and not Alba

They haven’t got the money to put up candidates in every seat. It’s a shoestring operation. Alba will likely fold after next election.


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[weecounty hibby]

https://archive.ph/laYte

Alba won't compete in Rutherglen, should be good for 50 votes. He's threatening the SNP with competing every seat at Westminster if they don't create Scotland united strategy. I don't get it if we are to put up just one independence mp per seat, wouldn't that be SNP in every seat and not Alba

They are a pointless waste of time. If salmond wasn't the leader know one would be interested in talking to them. They poll less than 2%, and Salmonds favourability rating is less than Douglas Ross and Sunak. The vast majority of indy supporters don't trust him either. He formed a party to be vindictive towards the SNP and to feed his own ego. Sad to see what he's become

[Stairway 2 7]

They are a pointless waste of time. If salmond wasn't the leader know one would be interested in talking to them. They poll less than 2%, and Salmonds favourability rating is less than Douglas Ross and Sunak. The vast majority of indy supporters don't trust him either. He formed a party to be vindictive towards the SNP and to feed his own ego. Sad to see what he's become

I'd like there to be a purely independence party for second votes at Holyrood. Why oh why did they have it lead by him, as you say he's so unpopular especially with women. I think he'd drop them in a second for a space in the SNP that obviously won't happen

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369603646_10159236364691510_542124304292668033_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=jlGkcx2533QAX9Bf-HN&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAFwZwBoQhfGTwTl8dww-kQwGpValtRhMfoNYfNYDZnag&oe=64F91196

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/ferretscot/status/1698293517439664174?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Sad state of affairs.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/pete_nicoll/status/1698750434117308638?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This true?


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[grunt]

https://x.com/pete_nicoll/status/1698750434117308638?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This true?
No.

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/gallery/publications/statistics/2023/08/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/SCT07238439641_g02.png
https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/pages/3/

[Jack]

No.

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/gallery/publications/statistics/2023/08/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/SCT07238439641_g02.png
https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/pages/3/

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here but the link states "Overall, Scotland raised £87.5 billion in 2022-23, or 8.6% of total UK income." That's even more than Ozys link, £73.8bn!

[lapsedhibee]

No.

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/gallery/publications/statistics/2023/08/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/SCT07238439641_g02.png
https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2022-23/pages/3/

Your link says Overall, Scotland raised £87.5 billion in 2022-23

What's not true? :confused:

[Stairway 2 7]

Are we believing GERS now?

I would it's a central estimate. Most data we see reported is an estimate. For example when an article says brexit has cost us x amount per year its using the central estimate

[Ozyhibby]

How do New Zealand cope then if they are raising less money than us?


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[grunt]

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here but the link states "Overall, Scotland raised £87.5 billion in 2022-23, or 8.6% of total UK income." That's even more than Ozys link, £73.8bn!


Your link says Overall, Scotland raised £87.5 billion in 2022-23

What's not true? :confused:Looks like I'm wrong. Again.

[Ozyhibby]

https://bylines.scot/opinion/why-scotland-should-be-independent/


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[Jack]

https://bylines.scot/opinion/why-scotland-should-be-independent/


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Sounds very reasonable.

[Ozyhibby]

https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/small-lead-for-yes-to-scottish-independence/

Small lead for Yes.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/small-lead-for-yes-to-scottish-independence/

Small lead for Yes.


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Seems legit. Every single traditional polling company has no leading in almost every poll this year. I've seen dozens of snp staff share the yougov poll today showing their lead growing. They seem delighted and not bothered that it shows no growing

Scottish Independence Voting Intention:

NO: 44% (=)
YES: 39% (-3)
Undecided: 14% (+6)

Undecideds excluded:

NO: 53% (+2)
YES: 47% (-2)

Via
@YouGov
, On 8-12 September,
Changes w/ 3-8 August.

[Ozyhibby]

Seems legit. Every single traditional polling company has no leading in almost every poll this year. I've seen dozens of snp staff share the yougov poll today showing their lead growing. They seem delighted and not bothered that it shows no growing

Scottish Independence Voting Intention:

NO: 44% (=)
YES: 39% (-3)
Undecided: 14% (+6)

Undecideds excluded:

NO: 53% (+2)
YES: 47% (-2)

Via
@YouGov
, On 8-12 September,
Changes w/ 3-8 August.

I only saw it because John Curtice shared it.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/dm180914/status/1703679796629102962?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Keith_M]

https://x.com/dm180914/status/1703679796629102962?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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"...and Michelle Mone would have abandoned us to go and live in England"

[DaveF]

https://x.com/dm180914/status/1703679796629102962?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Quite a sobering point. Still, there will be union jackers who think it would have been worse.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230927/39c63df4862b2c19fdc5aed989167fad.jpg

Alex Cole Hamilton, who hates seeing people waving flags. Obviously it’s just one type of flag he hates.
British nationalism at its best.


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[Ozyhibby]

Lucky we voted no. [emoji23]



Scottish independence: HS2 link ‘may be ditched’

The extension of the high speed rail project to Scotland could be ditched if the country becomes independent, it has been claimed.

A third phase has been earmarked for the controversial High Speed Two (HS2) scheme from either Leeds or Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
But this would add billions more to the £40 billion scheme which will see a phase 1 link from London to Birmingham. It would then split from there to both Manchester and Leeds in phase 2, before possibly coming north to Scotland.

If phase 3 goes ahead, it would take more than an hour off journeys between London and Edinburgh or Glasgow.

However, an unnamed UK Cabinet minister was yesterday reported to have said that an extra link was almost inconceivable in the event of a Yes vote for independence in September.

The source said: “The high-speed railway is a substantial public investment and it’s difficult to see how that investment would be justified from south of the Border.”

However, a spokesman for Scotland’s transport minister, Keith Brown, said: “This is exactly the kind of high-handed, arrogant, patronising attitude from Westminster that is driving so many people across Scotland to the Yes campaign and towards a Yes vote in September,” the spokesman said.


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[Just Alf]

Lucky we voted no. [emoji23]



Scottish independence: HS2 link ‘may be ditched’

The extension of the high speed rail project to Scotland could be ditched if the country becomes independent, it has been claimed.

A third phase has been earmarked for the controversial High Speed Two (HS2) scheme from either Leeds or Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh.
But this would add billions more to the £40 billion scheme which will see a phase 1 link from London to Birmingham. It would then split from there to both Manchester and Leeds in phase 2, before possibly coming north to Scotland.

If phase 3 goes ahead, it would take more than an hour off journeys between London and Edinburgh or Glasgow.

However, an unnamed UK Cabinet minister was yesterday reported to have said that an extra link was almost inconceivable in the event of a Yes vote for independence in September.

The source said: “The high-speed railway is a substantial public investment and it’s difficult to see how that investment would be justified from south of the Border.”

However, a spokesman for Scotland’s transport minister, Keith Brown, said: “This is exactly the kind of high-handed, arrogant, patronising attitude from Westminster that is driving so many people across Scotland to the Yes campaign and towards a Yes vote in September,” the spokesman said.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAmazing, the extra link is already 'inconceivable' by thier own hand.

A part of yesterday's announcement stated the land already bought for the 'delayed' route won't be protected and will be actively sold off by Westminster.
Basically if its ever to go ahead in the future the land will need rebought at no doubt much higher cost levels.

[Ozyhibby]

Amazing, the extra link is already 'inconceivable' by thier own hand.

A part of yesterday's announcement stated the land already bought for the 'delayed' route won't be protected and will be actively sold off by Westminster.
Basically if its ever to go ahead in the future the land will need rebought at no doubt much higher cost levels.

Actively sold off to who?[emoji6]


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[Just Alf]

Actively sold off to who?[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkProbably mates!

But I'd imagine those who had the land bought off them should be getting 1st dibs?

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1712360548136853657?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Our friends in the UK.[emoji849]


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[neil7908]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1712377843303252286?s=19

Very strange if true

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1712377843303252286?s=19

Very strange if true

Jeez some switch left the SNP due to bullying to go bully migrants

[Moulin Yarns]

Jeez some switch left the SNP due to bullying to go bully migrants

Let's be honest, she was going to lose the SNP nomination, going to be a Tory candidate is likely to have the same outcome.

[weecounty hibby]

She was the one taping SNP Westminster group meetings and releasing them to the Tories and the press. Also wrote to Viceroy Jack to ask him to intervene in GRA Bill. Well rid and was about to lose a selection contest anyway.

[JimBHibees]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1712360548136853657?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Our friends in the UK.[emoji849]


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Both should be jailed. Imagine if it had been the other way round. Better together my hoop.

[JimBHibees]

She was the one taping SNP Westminster group meetings and releasing them to the Tories and the press. Also wrote to Viceroy Jack to ask him to intervene in GRA Bill. Well rid and was about to lose a selection contest anyway.

Wow sounds like a plant

[marinello59]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/1712377843303252286?s=19

Very strange if true

Given that almost half of the SNP membership recently backed Kate Forbes who would fit neatly in to the Tory cabinet for the leadership it's maybe not that big of a political leap for some.

[grunt]

Given that almost half of the SNP membership recently backed Kate Forbes who would fit neatly in to the Tory cabinet for the leadership it's maybe not that big of a political leap for some.
:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Given that almost half of the SNP membership recently backed Kate Forbes who would fit neatly in to the Tory cabinet for the leadership it's maybe not that big of a political leap for some.

Which of her policies are Tory?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Which of her policies are Tory?


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Must be the strong belief in independence or her push for more immigration through her rural visa scheme or her anti brexit stance. SNP share little with the Tories, whether that's the left or centre of the party

[marinello59]

Which of her policies are Tory?


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You don’t think her views on the economy, her former brief, would be in step with traditional Tory thinking?

[grunt]

You don’t think her views on the economy, her former brief, would be in step with traditional Tory thinking?
Which views, specifically?

[Hiber-nation]

My mate's brother lives in Stonehouse which is in her constituency. Complete fraud was one of the more polite phrases he used to refer to her. Total nutjob was one of the less pleasant.

[J-C]

Given that almost half of the SNP membership recently backed Kate Forbes who would fit neatly in to the Tory cabinet for the leadership it's maybe not that big of a political leap for some.

So almost half have Tory leanings, you do realise that all Tories are Unionists.

[Ozyhibby]

You don’t think her views on the economy, her former brief, would be in step with traditional Tory thinking?

Economic growth isn’t Tory? Especially not the last 13 years. All parties should favour it. Labour certainly does.


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[marinello59]

So almost half have Tory leanings, you do realise that all Tories are Unionists.

Put the consitutional issue to one side., In an Independent Scotland those who back Kate Forbes way of doing things would be fairly comfortable voting Conservative.

[marinello59]

Economic growth isn’t Tory? Especially not the last 13 years. All parties should favour it. Labour certainly does.


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I didn't say that.
Go back and read what she said during the leadership contest and tell me that she is on the same wavelength as Sturgeon/ Yousaf when it comes to economic policy. If you think she is not to the right of them then we will have to agree to disagree.

[Stairway 2 7]

I didn't say that.
Go back and read what she said during the leadership contest and tell me that she is on the same wavelength as Sturgeon/ Yousaf when it comes to economic policy. If you think she is not to the right of them then we will have to agree to disagree.

You didn't say to the right of Sturgeon you said she would be fine on the tories cabinet. She is pro independent, anti brexit, pro immigration, anti Rwanda, she pushed for the doubling of the Scottish child payment, pushed £15 wage for care workers, wants national care service an end to zero hours contracts

She may be to the right of Sturgeon on issues and positively ridiculous on social issues. But she is far far removed from dozens of major issues compared to the Tories and I suspect you know that

[Ozyhibby]

You didn't say to the right of Sturgeon you said she would be fine on the tories cabinet. She is pro independent, anti brexit, pro immigration, anti Rwanda, she pushed for the doubling of the Scottish child payment, pushed £15 wage for care workers, wants national care service an end to zero hours contracts

She may be to the right of Sturgeon on issues and positively ridiculous on social issues. But she is far far removed from dozens of major issues compared to the Tories and I suspect you know that

Ta, saved me having to type it. [emoji106]


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[J-C]

You didn't say to the right of Sturgeon you said she would be fine on the tories cabinet. She is pro independent, anti brexit, pro immigration, anti Rwanda, she pushed for the doubling of the Scottish child payment, pushed £15 wage for care workers, wants national care service an end to zero hours contracts

She may be to the right of Sturgeon on issues and positively ridiculous on social issues. But she is far far removed from dozens of major issues compared to the Tories and I suspect you know that

Yep, saved me typing it too.

[marinello59]

Yep, saved me typing it too.

Well that’s me telt…. In triplicate. :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

BREAKING: SNP votes to immediately start independence negotiations with the UK Government if it wins the majority of the seats at the next general election.

[Ozyhibby]

BREAKING: SNP votes to immediately start independence negotiations with the UK Government if it wins the majority of the seats at the next general election.

That’s not what I understand? Hasn’t the policy reverted to pushing for a referendum if they win majority of seats?


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[SteveHFC]

That’s not what I understand? Hasn’t the policy reverted to pushing for a referendum if they win majority of seats?


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It is based on winning a majority of Scottish seats, at least 29.

This would provide a mandate to start separation talks with Westminster, according to the proposals.

[Moulin Yarns]

That’s not what I understand? Hasn’t the policy reverted to pushing for a referendum if they win majority of seats?


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No it's definitely a majority of seats. Don't know where you saw it as a majority of seats? 😂😂😂

Edit. Yes, to negotiate the referendum.

[Just Alf]

I'm confused, is this mandate re asking for a referendum not what theyve already had the last few elections?

[tamig]

I'm confused, is this mandate re asking for a referendum not what theyve already had the last few elections?

Sounds like it to me. A recycling of old proposals.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm confused, is this mandate re asking for a referendum not what theyve already had the last few elections?

It’s a sensible move back to the only thing that can work and that is a referendum. The de-facto idea was a nonsense and it has now been killed off.
It appears as though Flynn has pulled Yousaf back from the brink to a more sensible stance.
We should only ever become independent when the majority of us want it.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/gerryhassan/status/1713594416605044927?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Doesn’t seem that long since Labour were telling everyone to wait and see GB’s constitution report.[emoji23]


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[Kato]

https://x.com/gerryhassan/status/1713594416605044927?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Doesn’t seem that long since Labour were telling everyone to wait and see GB’s constitution report.[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDroopy, Wile E Coyote and Deputy Dawg.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231020/eb0ddc1eae72afa812397336aefbb3db.jpg

Won’t be long before people in NI start to see just how much poorer they are.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1467-923X.13334?campaign=wolearlyview

Fairly accurate portrayal of where we are at.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/kevinjpringle/status/1729836333374292430?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Support for Indy at 54%. SNP problems not hurting Indy.[emoji106]


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[grunt]

https://x.com/kevinjpringle/status/1729836333374292430?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Support for Indy at 54%. SNP problems not hurting Indy.[emoji106]
What problems?

[lapsedhibee]

What problems?

Streamgate.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/kevinjpringle/status/1729836333374292430?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Support for Indy at 54%. SNP problems not hurting Indy.[emoji106]


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Why is ipsos constantly the opposite from every other poll. Last round of polling there was 10 no leads from 10 different company's in a row then ipsos said yes. There has been another 7 no leads then ipsos says yes. No will be ahead in all the rest unfortunately or I'll eat my glenngary

27433
27434
27435

[Ozyhibby]

Why is ipsos constantly the opposite from every other poll. Last round of polling there was 10 no leads from 10 different company's in a row then ipsos said yes. There has been another 7 no leads then ipsos says yes. No will be ahead in all the rest unfortunately or I'll eat my glenngary

27433
27434
27435

Can’t answer your question but Ipsos are widely regarded as an industry leader and generally tend to be more accurate at elections.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Can’t answer your question but Ipsos are widely regarded as an industry leader and generally tend to be more accurate at elections.


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It's too much of an outlier and they are conducting it with scotman questions before and after. Fwiw I don't believe SNP will do as bad as the polls are saying.

[Ozyhibby]

It's too much of an outlier and they are conducting it with scotman questions before and after. Fwiw I don't believe SNP will do as bad as the polls are saying.

https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1729868021320339620?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1729868021320339620?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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They all look roughly the same bar yougov. But this wasn't an ipsos election poll it was a series of questions from the scotman and it depends on those questions. Multiple people hire ipsos.

The week before the independence referendum ipsos had 2 polls 1 with just under a 2% lead for no and another with a 5%. It was obviously 10% but there would have been different questions asked in the 2.

I think it's clearly far too much of an outlier. I'll wait for the next half dozen to see if the downward trajectory has changed

[Moulin Yarns]

They all look roughly the same bar yougov. But this wasn't an ipsos election poll it was a series of questions from the scotman and it depends on those questions. Multiple people hire ipsos.

The week before the independence referendum ipsos had 2 polls 1 with just under a 2% lead for no and another with a 5%. It was obviously 10% but there would have been different questions asked in the 2.

I think it's clearly far too much of an outlier. I'll wait for the next half dozen to see if the downward trajectory has changed

Does it not say it's a poll for STV?


https://news.stv.tv/politics/majority-of-scots-think-michael-matheson-should-resign-over-ipad-data-roaming-bill



ipsos-scottish-political-monitor-may-2023-charts.pdf


Fill yer boots!

[Stairway 2 7]

Does it not say it's a poll for STV?


https://news.stv.tv/politics/majority-of-scots-think-michael-matheson-should-resign-over-ipad-data-roaming-bill



ipsos-scottish-political-monitor-may-2023-charts.pdf


Fill yer boots!

Yep my mistake STV.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231129/27465081d324743bec2fd0bbb60b3a59.jpg


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[Stairway 2 7]

Will SNP appose this or work in tandem, puts them in a difficult position

https://twitter.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1730170781903045057

ginadavidsonlbc
NEW: Alba Party's
@AshReganALBA
plans to introduce a referendum Bill in Holyrood- on "whether the powers of the Scottish Parliament should be extended to include the power to legislate for & negotiate independence" says it could be held exactly 10 years after 2014 poll

[Ozyhibby]

Will SNP appose this or work in tandem, puts them in a difficult position

https://twitter.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1730170781903045057

ginadavidsonlbc
NEW: Alba Party's
@AshReganALBA
plans to introduce a referendum Bill in Holyrood- on "whether the powers of the Scottish Parliament should be extended to include the power to legislate for & negotiate independence" says it could be held exactly 10 years after 2014 poll

It should oppose. A referendum is the only way to secure Independence. There are no short cuts.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It should oppose. A referendum is the only way to secure Independence. There are no short cuts.


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Have they said it wouldn't lead to a referendum, because as you say it must.

I like that Alba are putting their focus on independence, I feel its very much just one of many things the SNP are focused on.

Greens barely focus on independence which is understandable as the planet is an important topic, plus polling shows their voters are mixed on independence

There is space for a second vote purely independence party. Why oh why did they let Salmond front it with his baggage

[Moulin Yarns]

Will SNP appose this or work in tandem, puts them in a difficult position

https://twitter.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1730170781903045057

ginadavidsonlbc
NEW: Alba Party's
@AshReganALBA
plans to introduce a referendum Bill in Holyrood- on "whether the powers of the Scottish Parliament should be extended to include the power to legislate for & negotiate independence" says it could be held exactly 10 years after 2014 poll

appose
/əˈpəʊz/
verbTECHNICAL
place (something) side by side with or close to something else.
"the specimen was apposed to X-ray film"

[Stairway 2 7]

That will be all under one banner finished, what a stupid thing to post if your trying to be a serious political force

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/091efea7-c006-46e9-87f7-0506b97e6c58?shareToken=88def02448ed77cf57371f30c3 ec358d

[Hibrandenburg]

That will be all under one banner finished, what a stupid thing to post if your trying to be a serious political force

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/091efea7-c006-46e9-87f7-0506b97e6c58?shareToken=88def02448ed77cf57371f30c3 ec358d

Yes, it's distasteful and will rightly disgust many people. But the end? Not too sure about that. In another part of these islands we had groups striving for independence who would happily blow up and kill men women and children for decades to further their cause, I doubt that a few idiots spouting bile is going to derail the movement.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yes, it's distasteful and will rightly disgust many people. But the end? Not too sure about that. In another part of these islands we had groups striving for independence who would happily blow up and kill men women and children for decades to further their cause, I doubt that a few idiots spouting bile is going to derail the movement.

It's no going to touch the independence movement in anyway obviously. But as I say it'll be the end for AUOB being taken serious, Pete Wishart SNP MP has just said the same.

[weecounty hibby]

AUOB sadly lost the plot a couple of years or so ago. Firmly got behind Alba and wings and for that their marches lost a whole heap of attendees including myself.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottish-parliament-defeated-by-uk-government-in-landmark-court-ruling-over-gender-reform-law

Court of session uphold the UK government veto on Scottish legislation.

So the question is, what is the Scottish Parliament for?

[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottish-parliament-defeated-by-uk-government-in-landmark-court-ruling-over-gender-reform-law

Court of session uphold the UK government veto on Scottish legislation.

So the question is, what is the Scottish Parliament for?

The things that are devolved and don't effect uk law. Scot gov knew this but wanted a battle, but it's just a second court defeat in a week with our cash

[Ozyhibby]

The things that are devolved and don't effect uk law. Scot gov knew this but wanted a battle, but it's just a second court defeat in a week with our cash

Be nice if both our govts stopped running to court every two minutes and concentrated on the job.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Be nice if both our govts stopped running to court every two minutes and concentrated on the job.


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Tories are wanting to not have to abide by the rule of law unfortunately

[grunt]

Well, things are beginning to get a little heated.

Tonight we have an unelected Tory Lord - not even an MP - telling Scotland's elected FM what he can and can't do.
And of course the lying Tory Lord is being supported by the lying Tory MSPs.

All getting a little bit tense ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBAmD7vWgAA4BJT?format=jpg&name=900x900

[grunt]

And here's how it's being reported by our impartial BBC News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67675005


Foreign Secretary David Cameron has threatened to withdraw co-operation with Scottish ministers after Humza Yousaf met with Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The first minister met the Turkish president at COP28 without a UK official present, which Lord Cameron said was a breach of protocol.

It comes amid ongoing tensions between Scotland and the UK government over meetings with foreign officials.

A spokesperson for Mr Yousaf said a UK official was invited to the meeting.

[JimBHibees]

The things that are devolved and don't effect uk law. Scot gov knew this but wanted a battle, but it's just a second court defeat in a week with our cash

This was agreed across the house though wasn’t it. Uk gov playing politics big time imo. Passing the internal bill when no one noticed to allow them to interfere in devolution was an indication of this.

[greenginger]

This was agreed across the house though wasn’t it. Uk gov playing politics big time imo. Passing the internal bill when no one noticed to allow them to interfere in devolution was an indication of this.

If the internal markets bill was passed and nobody noticed you have got to ask what the 40 plus SNP Westminster mp’s we’re doing all day down there.

[grunt]

If the internal markets bill was passed and nobody noticed you have got to ask what the 40 plus SNP Westminster mp’s we’re doing all day down there.
It was noticed, but there was nothing they could do about it. But then I expect you're fully aware of that.

[Ozyhibby]

If the internal markets bill was passed and nobody noticed you have got to ask what the 40 plus SNP Westminster mp’s we’re doing all day down there.

That’s right. If they had voted against it we could have stopped it.


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[Moulin Yarns]

And here's how it's being reported by our impartial BBC News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67675005

As more comes out, turns out the Turkish changed the meeting at the last minute. As for the other alleged meetings, is Humza Yousaf supposed to ignore everyone he bumps into at these international events??

[Stairway 2 7]

People are rightly saying Erdoğan is a complete ****bag who has constantly committed genocide on the Kurds. This is true but its ridiculous for tories to be using it against SNP as Sunak has met Erdoğan and I'm sure Starmer would too.

[Jack]

I'm of the opinion that if you don't engage with people you disagree with they're never going to change their mind. They might never change their mind anyway but at least you've tried.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm of the opinion that if you don't engage with people you disagree with they're never going to change their mind. They might never change their mind anyway but at least you've tried.

Sometimes you don’t change their mind but come to an accommodation anyway.


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[Hibrandenburg]

As more comes out, turns out the Turkish changed the meeting at the last minute. As for the other alleged meetings, is Humza Yousaf supposed to ignore everyone he bumps into at these international events??

The whole thing is a joke. Scotland's elected representatives requiring chaperones from a government it firmly rejected, makes an absolute mockery of our system. Our devolution resembles more the biological sense of the word than the political.

[greenginger]

The whole thing is a joke. Scotland's elected representatives requiring chaperones from a government it firmly rejected, makes an absolute mockery of our system. Our devolution resembles more the biological sense of the word than the political.

Foreign policy is not part of the devolved Scottish Government remit as per the devolution settlement.

[Ozyhibby]

Foreign policy is not part of the devolved Scottish Government remit as per the devolution settlement.

Other devolved parts of the UK are allowed to pitch for trade abroad? Why not Scotland?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Other devolved parts of the UK are allowed to pitch for trade abroad? Why not Scotland?


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Don't think it was trade it was foreign policy he said he discussed. I think there should be government representatives or you get situations like when Boris met Medvedev without chaperone.

Scottish public voted against full independence, this would have been moot if they didn't want the status quo

[Just Alf]

Other devolved parts of the UK are allowed to pitch for trade abroad? Why not Scotland?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOther something I've always wondered... Welsh, NI, London even Yorkshire politicians head over to New York etc but is the Scottish politicians that get the slapped wrists.

In a similar vein, the Scottish deposit return scheme was chucked on the bonfire because the Westminster government said manufacturers would have to link their barcodes/ or have dual labelling to allow it to happen.
Funnily enough to enable the latest version of the NI protocol to work re no North Sea border checks for produce destined solely for domestic use within NI requires exactly that! (Dual labelling)

[Just Alf]

Don't think it was trade it was foreign policy he said he discussed. I think there should be government representatives or you get situations like when Boris met Medvedev without chaperone.

Scottish public voted against full independence, this would have been moot if they didn't want the status quoWas it not in context of the COP meetings?
Some of the Scottish net zero commitments are separate to Westminster's?
(I do get your general point though)

[Stairway 2 7]

Was it not in context of the COP meetings?
Some of the Scottish net zero commitments are separate to Westminster's?
(I do get your general point though)

Humza said in particular they talked about Israel-Hamas in this meeting. Humza was in UAE for COP though.

I wouldn't have bothered if I was him it turned out to be a glorified photoshoot. UAE said they don't believe in climate change and no meaningful decisions were made, infuriating

[Just Alf]

Humza said in particular they talked about Israel-Hamas in this meeting. Humza was in UAE for COP though.

I wouldn't have bothered if I was him it turned out to be a glorified photoshoot. UAE said they don't believe in climate change and no meaningful decisions were made, infuriatingAye , feels like a waste of everyone's time really....

[degenerated]

Other devolved parts of the UK are allowed to pitch for trade abroad? Why not Scotland?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey know they can do what they want and around half of Scotland will rush to defend it staunchly.

[JimBHibees]

They know they can do what they want and around half of Scotland will rush to defend it staunchly.

Yep how depressing

[Andy Bee]

Goves "State of the Union" paper

A lot of interesting points and shows why the "not at this time" seems to be getting trotted out as much although it does state they can't keep that up indefinitely.


https://t.co/qJoPTvxD98

[Moulin Yarns]

Goves "State of the Union" paper

A lot of interesting points and shows why the "not at this time" seems to be getting trotted out as much although it does state they can't keep that up indefinitely.


https://t.co/qJoPTvxD98

I couldn't find a date for the paper? When was it published?

[Andy Bee]

I couldn't find a date for the paper? When was it published?

2021, "the biggest reason for people going off independence would be the then First Minister resigning" :hmmm:

[Andy Bee]

Goves "State of the Union" paper

A lot of interesting points and shows why the "not at this time" seems to be getting trotted out as much although it does state they can't keep that up indefinitely.


https://t.co/qJoPTvxD98


Apparently the above paper, written by think tank Onward isn't "THE" State of the Union paper written by Gove even although it has the same name. Goves paper was written in July 2020 and exerts were shown by The Covid Inquiry which are not included in the above paper. The National asked the Covid Inquiry for a copy of the Gove paper and they were told that it wouldn't be released until the inquiry concludes if at all. :dunno:

[grunt]

Apparently the above paper, written by think tank Onward isn't "THE" State of the Union paper written by Gove even although it has the same name. Goves paper was written in July 2020 and exerts were shown by The Covid Inquiry which are not included in the above paper. The National asked the Covid Inquiry for a copy of the Gove paper and they were told that it wouldn't be released until the inquiry concludes if at all. :dunno:
Seems a tad unfair that we can't see a report that we paid to have written.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1758028032067977472?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

We are getting poorer everyday in this union.


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[degenerated]

https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1758028032067977472?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

We are getting poorer everyday in this union.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe'll be okay, cometh the hour cometh the man. 27691

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/healthfdn/status/1758782090378629547?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Life expectancy down by 4 years since 2010.


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[Ozyhibby]

Only partly an independence point as proper devolution could achieve the same but listening to the chancellor listing of individual tiny projects he will fund from central govt like new church halls just shows how horrifically centralised the UK is.


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[Kato]

Only partly an independence point as proper devolution could achieve the same but listening to the chancellor listing of individual tiny projects he will fund from central govt like new church halls just shows how horrifically centralised the UK is.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's "brexit freedoms" and sovereignty being doled to whom they find most appropriate.

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[grunt]

It's "brexit freedoms" and sovereignty being doled to whom they find most appropriate.
To whom they owe favours.

[Paul1642]

£295 million extra in the Scottish budget following the UK budget according to BBC.

[grunt]

£295 million extra in the Scottish budget following the UK budget according to BBC.£50m more than Hunt gave to Canary Wharf.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/scotlands-extraordinary-fiscal-contribution-to-uk-economy-revealed-370677/?fbclid=IwAR2hpX3xU6YUFVJs1-_5ZRHdV9eZpcSjlt18lXqzJckERuJIF7ppV8UkRZI


Confirmed that Scotland is a net contributer to the UK treasury.

[grunt]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/scotlands-extraordinary-fiscal-contribution-to-uk-economy-revealed-370677/?fbclid=IwAR2hpX3xU6YUFVJs1-_5ZRHdV9eZpcSjlt18lXqzJckERuJIF7ppV8UkRZI


Confirmed that Scotland is a net contributer to the UK treasury.Nice article, but it doesn't actually say what you say it does.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nice article, but it doesn't actually say what you say it does.

True, but if you look at the block grant and do some arithmetic then that's pretty much what it says.

[RyeSloan]

True, but if you look at the block grant and do some arithmetic then that's pretty much what it says.

Does it? Would be interesting to understand your logic here as I must admit I’m at least a little bit confused by the term ‘tax contributions to the U.K.’

It then goes on to list a number of taxes (not least income tax) which are fully devolved so my confusion doesn’t go away the more I read it! [emoji12]

It then fails to acknowledge that inflation has been over 30% in that time so if it’s just taking straight line numbers (again not clear) then this ‘contribution’ appears to actually be lower than a decade ago if adjusted for inflation.

But even taking the 8% of contributions figure it’s hard to see how that beats a barnet formula based percentage for the block grant.

And that’s before you even begin to wonder if a near 200% rise in property transactions or 70% increases in people’s employment taxation are even something to be celebrated or not!

[Moulin Yarns]

It then fails to acknowledge that inflation has been over 30% in that time

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤔

[RyeSloan]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji848]

You’ve lost me as to the hilarity…

[Moulin Yarns]

You’ve lost me as to the hilarity…

30% inflation??????

The core CPIH annual inflation rate was 4.8% in February 2024, which was the lowest rate since February 2022. It is down from 5.1% in January 2024 and from a recent high of 6.5% in May 2023, which was the highest rate since November 1991, when it was also 6.5% in the constructed historical series.

[CropleyWasGod]

True, but if you look at the block grant and do some arithmetic then that's pretty much what it says.

How much was the block grant over that period, and what is the arithmetic?

[RyeSloan]

30% inflation??????

The core CPIH annual inflation rate was 4.8% in February 2024, which was the lowest rate since February 2022. It is down from 5.1% in January 2024 and from a recent high of 6.5% in May 2023, which was the highest rate since November 1991, when it was also 6.5% in the constructed historical series.


The numbers are compared to ‘increase in the last decade’ hence why I stated it was unclear if the author had inflation adjusted these ‘increases’ or not.for that period.

To be clear that’s inflation over the last DECADE not the current rate of inflation. Hope that stops yer sides hurting.

Anyway any chance you can share your arithmetic that brought you to your initial conclusion now that we have cleared that little mis understanding up?

[Andy Bee]

Deary me, it's just another article that stokes up division as is showing in this thread already, although it's probably not what the author intended and that's coming from an Independence supporter. The Union supporters will rightly point out the inaccuracies in the article and the "Nationalists" will lap it up because it attempts to show that the narrative of Scotland is too wee and too poor is wrong. Bipolar Scotland, you gorra love it.

I'm no economist, far far from it, tax receipts do not show how viable a country is to run its own affairs. A country that issues its own currency cannot run out of money, that's a fact.

The sooner people realise that statements like "balancing the books" and "maxed out the credit card" is simply gaslighting, the sooner we can all get down to debating what's best for the country we all live in.

[Ozyhibby]

Deary me, it's just another article that stokes up division as is showing in this thread already, although it's probably not what the author intended and that's coming from an Independence supporter. The Union supporters will rightly point out the inaccuracies in the article and the "Nationalists" will lap it up because it attempts to show that the narrative of Scotland is too wee and too poor is wrong. Bipolar Scotland, you gorra love it.

I'm no economist, far far from it, tax receipts do not show how viable a country is to run its own affairs. A country that issues its own currency cannot run out of money, that's a fact.

The sooner people realise that statements like "balancing the books" and "maxed out the credit card" is simply gaslighting, the sooner we can all get down to debating what's best for the country we all live in.

[emoji106]


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[Moulin Yarns]

UK government internal market bill used to stop more Scottish legislation, the ban on the sale of snares and glue traps, the use of which is illegal in England and Wales.

https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/24229668.muirburn-bill-sparks-snp-westminster-constitutional-clash/

In essence, something illegal to use can still be bought legally because Westminster has stopped Scotland going further.

https://www.gov.scot/news/ban-on-the-sale-and-possession-of-rodent-glue-traps/


https://www.gov.scot/publications/glue-traps-sales-ban-letter-uk-government/


The UK Government does not consider that the evidence presented demonstrates that a ban on the sale of glue traps would be substantially more effective than a ban focused on their use and possession. The UK Government therefore does not believe that the case has been made that an exclusion under the UKIM Act is necessary to deliver the policy aims of restricting the use of these traps in Scotland.


is it really the UK Government’s position that a product already subject to a ban on its use and possession cannot also be banned from sale due to the “need to avoid barriers to trade wherever possible”?


It is for the Scottish Parliament, not UK Government ministers, to reach a view on whether the evidence presented by the Scottish Government merits a given policy approach in devolved matters. The relevant measure was passed with the support of every party in the Scottish Parliament – including the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party – on 19 March. I am afraid the UK Government’s view on the advisability or necessity of law passed entirely within devolved competence by the Scottish Parliament is irrelevant, and certainly does not provide justification for undermining the expressed – and unanimous – will of the Scottish Parliament.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1778091912089497698?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Not usually a polling company favourable to Indy.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1778091912089497698?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Not usually a polling company favourable to Indy.


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Redfield has yes ahead for the first time in over a year, yougov today has no leading. Both have Holyrood neck and neck. Both have Labour leading in the Westminster race. The most significant figure out of all of them probably is yougov have Labour leading the SNP in the Westminster race for the first time before the independence referendum, would seem unthinkable in 2021 when SNP had a massive lead it's slowly fell. I think it should rise in the months before the election

[Ozyhibby]

Redfield has yes ahead for the first time in over a year, yougov today has no leading. Both have Holyrood neck and neck. Both have Labour leading in the Westminster race. The most significant figure out of all of them probably is yougov have Labour leading the SNP in the Westminster race for the first time before the independence referendum, would seem unthinkable in 2021 when SNP had a massive lead it's slowly fell. I think it should rise in the months before the election

I’m not so sure. Humza doesn’t appear able to say why people should vote SNP again. There no longer appears to be a project. And the constant culture war stuff is turning people away. I think he will lose this election and hopefully it leads to him standing down and someone like Flynn steps up.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not so sure. Humza doesn’t appear able to say why people should vote SNP again. There no longer appears to be a project. And the constant culture war stuff is turning people away. I think he will lose this election and hopefully it leads to him standing down and someone like Flynn steps up.


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I think Flynn is clearly the best leader at Westminster and hope he would take a seat up here as he's great. It's a pity Forbes has the views she has on some subjects as I honestly believe we'd get independence with someone fresh like her or Flynn who can easily sidestep the baggage of the past. Independence is inevitable due to demographics but it would be preferable before we follow England down the plughole

[marinello59]

I’m not so sure. Humza doesn’t appear able to say why people should vote SNP again. There no longer appears to be a project. And the constant culture war stuff is turning people away. I think he will lose this election and hopefully it leads to him standing down and someone like Flynn steps up.


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I remember you saying early on in his tenure that one of his strengths may be that he wouldn’t be as bad as people thought he would be. It made me laugh at the time. :greengrin

You were wrong though, he’s performed pretty much as expected, he will be gone after the next election. I feel a certain amount of sympathy for him, a thoroughly decent man set up to take the fall for the long term failure of others.

[Ozyhibby]

I remember you saying early on in his tenure that one of his strengths may be that he wouldn’t be as bad as people thought he would be. It made me laugh at the time. :greengrin

You were wrong though, he’s performed pretty much as expected, he will be gone after the next election. I feel a certain amount of sympathy for him, a thoroughly decent man set up to take the fall for the long term failure of others.

He wasn’t set up to take any fall. He inherited a tricky situation with the police investigation and the tail end of 14 years of austerity that has everyone fed up. The SNP have run Scotland better than any part of the UK but there is only so much can be done within the austerity we have faced. He has made things worse for himself by not having any new ideas for taking party and country forward and carrying on with NS’s social issues.
What’s needed are some hard nosed economic reforms and he isn’t up for that in the way Forbes was. I think Flynn understands that as well.
He wasn’t set up by anyone. He is a grown man who knew what he was getting himself into. He is falling short.


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[Andy Bee]

Sorry mate but he's an absolute patsy in a party that's lost its way. Engineered to carry on the continuity of his predecessors for whatever reasons I don't get although I kinda do. The SNP are meant to be the political wing of the Independence movement, someone needs to remind them of that sharpish. Margo MacDonald he aint.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2dqll2nn0o?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=EED01710-FE48-11EE-9A2C-36F14B3AC5C4&at_link_type=web_link&at_medium=social&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_campaign=Social_Flow


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[Moulin Yarns]

Indy march yesterday,

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1781737638069776627?t=sV6HG_n8D_dyoF4suPwqKg&s=19


Keep your eyes on the left!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Indy march yesterday,

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1781737638069776627?t=sV6HG_n8D_dyoF4suPwqKg&s=19


Keep your eyes on the left!!!

Camera man could have done with keeping his eyes to the left.[emoji23]


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[Stairway 2 7]

Indy march yesterday,

https://twitter.com/IndyTom3/status/1781737638069776627?t=sV6HG_n8D_dyoF4suPwqKg&s=19


Keep your eyes on the left!!!
Apparently greens wouldn't share a stage with Alba, culture wars nonsense.

I don't like both of them. I personally think the greens should be neutral on independence so they take votes of both sides not just independents, it's too important a cause as well. With our structure we defo need a second party, the nutters in Alba aren't it though

[grunt]

Well folks, we're now officially an enemy of the British State, a "danger that threatens our country".
According to Sunak, that is. Speech, this morning (see last sentence):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbOYXMAIW0Jp?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbORXIAAJyic?format=jpg&name=large

[Kato]

Well folks, we're now officially an enemy of the British State, a "danger that threatens our country".
According to Sunak, that is. Speech, this morning:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbOYXMAIW0Jp?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbORXIAAJyic?format=jpg&name=largeHe's a pipsqueak. Trying to make national security a political football when his party underfunded it whilst wooing Russian cash and parasites to come live here.

GE can't come quick enough.

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[lapsedhibee]

Well folks, we're now officially an enemy of the British State, a "danger that threatens our country".
According to Sunak, that is. Speech, this morning (see last sentence):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbOYXMAIW0Jp?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNdKbORXIAAJyic?format=jpg&name=large

Just as in the middle east, England has every right to defend itself against Flynn's quips/terrorist attacks in the House of Commons. Look out for electricity and water supplies from south of the border to be cut off, and then targeted bombing of SNP voters, and only SNP voters, to begin shortly after that. Is it Cameron who believes Sunak to be an 'intellectual giant'? :crazy:

[grunt]

Interesting findings from Scotland's Census 2022:
People identifying themselves as ...



‘Scottish only’ increased since 2011 to 65.5%.
‘British only’ increased to 13.9%.
‘Scottish and British’ fell from 18.3% to 8.2%.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting findings from Scotland's Census 2022:
People identifying themselves as ...



‘Scottish only’ increased since 2011 to 65.5%.
‘British only’ increased to 13.9%.
‘Scottish and British’ fell from 18.3% to 8.2%.


Since 2014 people are more aware of how they see themselves. Either way.
More than half the country not religious either for the first time.
I’m not unhappy at the direction of travel.


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[Bristolhibby]

Since 2014 people are more aware of how they see themselves. Either way.
More than half the country not religious either for the first time.
I’m not unhappy at the direction of travel.


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The trend is heading in the right direction. Atheists who feel Scottish. Not a surprise from people who are Scottish.

J

[cabbageandribs1875]

keep up the good work :agree:

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/447530764_788188850119112_2510842125315455231_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=Od_LXRgvrIwQ7kNvgEC7m9v&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AYBbruOapM4-1TcTTo8Qd7iYwCe9V44-38vnH-mlIp_Rwg&oe=66666E16

[grunt]

https://x.com/Political_AlanS/status/1804120452345794812


Keir Starmer says there’ll be no negotiations with the Scottish Government on independence - even if a majority of SNP MPs are elected on July 4th

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/Political_AlanS/status/1804120452345794812

SNP need to take them at their word and admit there will be no Indy negotiations allowed. It will get rid of the dogs dinner of a line that they are trying to hold. Make clear the party will always pursue Indy but be honest that we have no democratic route to it and we are not willing to engage in violence for it.


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[grunt]

SNP need to take them at their word and admit there will be no Indy negotiations allowed. It will get rid of the dogs dinner of a line that they are trying to hold. Make clear the party will always pursue Indy but be honest that we have no democratic route to it and we are not willing to engage in violence for it.
Righto.

[Hibs4185]

As I’m getting older (maybe wiser), I’m even more independence minded than ever.

I saw a twitter post saying that the act of union between Scotlandand England is voluntary and therefore is easily revocable.

I respect .net’s opinion and wisdom more than anything.

Is it *ish??

[lapsedhibee]

I saw a twitter post saying that the act of union between Scotlandand England is voluntary and therefore is easily revocable.


It's perfectly straightforward. The union is entirely voluntary unless Scotland wants to leave.

[Ozyhibby]

As I’m getting older (maybe wiser), I’m even more independence minded than ever.

I saw a twitter post saying that the act of union between Scotlandand England is voluntary and therefore is easily revocable.

I respect .net’s opinion and wisdom more than anything.

Is it *ish??

We are now forbidden by the majority in the UK Parliament from leaving.


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[Paul1642]

We are now forbidden by the majority in the UK Parliament from leaving.


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If the majority of Scots wanted to leave then it would become inevitable. That is however further away from being reality today than it had been for over a well over a decade .

Personally I’ve swayed towards it for the first time in my life (despite voting yes in the 2014 referendum despite not being sure).

[Hibs4185]

It's perfectly straightforward. The union is entirely voluntary unless Scotland wants to leave.

They had the text from the act of union and it said, either country could leave if desired, or words to that affect?

[lapsedhibee]

They had the text from the act of union and it said, either country could leave if desired, or words to that affect?

Just words on paper. Sir Keir knows what's best for the people of Scotland.

[Just Alf]

They had the text from the act of union and it said, either country could leave if desired, or words to that affect?Later legislation passed at Westminster supercedes the old wording.

(It was discussed on here while back, according to the UK government it's why they can say "no" when the Scottish government requested permission for a referendum)

[Ozyhibby]

Later legislation passed at Westminster supercedes the old wording.

(It was discussed on here while back, according to the UK government it's why they can say "no" when the Scottish government requested permission for a referendum)

There is no democratic route to independence. That has been made clear.


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[Just Alf]

There is no democratic route to independence. That has been made clear.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYup, and to make matters worse, the SNP previously gained a majority with negotiating for a referendum as part of their manifesto, they go to the UK Government and get refused.... but in some folks eyes the blame lies with the SNP for not delivering a manifesto promise.

[JimBHibees]

Yup, and to make matters worse, the SNP previously gained a majority with negotiating for a referendum as part of their manifesto, they go to the UK Government and get refused.... but in some folks eyes the blame lies with the SNP for not delivering a manifesto promise.

Yes an absolute nonsense

[grunt]

The beginning of the end of devolution?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVQOX1uXUAAvs_1?format=jpg&name=large

[Hibs4185]

The beginning of the end of devolution?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVQOX1uXUAAvs_1?format=jpg&name=large

thats £150 million to tynecastle then. Imagine given Murray that much money to help with deprived areas

[Stairway 2 7]

10 years ago we bottled it. Where are we now a decade later. Probably a similar place with just a slight no lead. I'd thought demographics would have saved us but obviously people are turning no as they age so far. I can't see anything pre the next GE but we should be able to build from a good result there. I'd doubt there will be anything much before but I'm confident we will get another chance in about adecade

[Andy Bee]

Scottish Currency Group Conference Part 1 with Prof Thiebault Laurentjoye. This is the bloke commissioned by the Welsh Senedd by Plaid Cymru in cooperation with Welsh Labour (yup, this is how the grown ups behave) to do a study on whether Wales should use its own currency if it became independent. It also includes a talk with Robin McAlpine. Introduction is by Douglas Chapman for around 10mins. Not everyone's cup of tea but I found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWejbjhl304

Part 2 with Prof Danny Blanchflower who sat on the BoE Monetary Policy Committee, this one is interesting in giving you an idea of the system and people who decide monetary policy and interest rates in the UK.
Also Dr Jón Egilsson who was the former Chair of the Supervisory Board of the Icelandic Central Bank brought in after the Icelandic banking crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sW9nRa5294&list=PL5haGgocNeoy2-cY3Iemzs5GeQZRIeWvg&index=1

There's more if you're interested, just subscribe to the channel and view playlists. Craig Dalzell and Rory Hamilton go into the Commonweal Green New Energy policy, Lesley Riddoch, Prof Richard Murphy and many more with some of these still to be uploaded.