Winter 2022-23 transfer thread

[PHeffernan]

Sadly we’ve reached that point in the Hibs supporting cycle where I’m completely indifferent to who leaves in the window.

Marshall and Boyle apart, don’t think I would be bothered who left tbh.

Boyle will be a very expensive paperweight for the next 9 months so that signing has blown up in our faces as well.

Looking at the squad I can see us trying to return some of the loans but heavy penalty clauses for cutting them short might curtail that action.
Schofield was signed for the season because the Dabrowski injury looked more serious than it turned out to be. I suspect he is costing us a lot of cash so hopefully Huddersfield will agree to take him back if they can get a loan deal for him at another team where he will play.

Youan has had lots of game time and is on an option to buy loan which I can't see us taking up. Again have to hope his club St Gallen would take him back early.

Bojang is here on an option to buy loan. Think he will be costing us buttons. Hibs may have decided on him already although he has been injured so they could keep him for the rest of the season to further assess. Don't think we will see much of him this season.

Fish is required as back up especially if Porteous moves on


Looking at the permanents:
Dabrowski is in the last 6 months of his contract. If we can return Schofield, Kevin may stay otherwise he could go.

Bradley is in the last 6 months of his contract. Like Dabrowski he could benefit from getting a new team in January rather than being among hundreds of out of contract players at the end of May

Hauge should be allowed out on loan to get game time

Tavares could go out on loan to get game time if McGeady comes back and stays fit.

The rest of the 1st team squad are required until summer.
A lot riding on the fitness of Nisbet, Magennis, McGeady and Mitchell
A lot riding on McKirdy being a catalyst of unpredictability
The return of JDH whose injury predates our bad form is a more offensive option than Kenneh

Hopefully we can get a right sided wide player in on loan to replace Boyle.
All the above would leave us 22 first team players for the 2nd half of the season.

One things for sure, none of us can guess with any certainty what will happen with Hibs this season.
Enjoy the journey!

[J-C]

Boyle will be a very expensive paperweight for the next 9 months so that signing has blown up in our faces as well.

Looking at the squad I can see us trying to return some of the loans but heavy penalty clauses for cutting them short might curtail that action.
Schofield was signed for the season because the Dabrowski injury looked more serious than it turned out to be. I suspect he is costing us a lot of cash so hopefully Huddersfield will agree to take him back if they can get a loan deal for him at another team where he will play.

Youan has had lots of game time and is on an option to buy loan which I can't see us taking up. Again have to hope his club St Gallen would take him back early.

Bojang is here on an option to buy loan. Think he will be costing us buttons. Hibs may have decided on him already although he has been injured so they could keep him for the rest of the season to further assess. Don't think we will see much of him this season.

Fish is required as back up especially if Porteous moves on


Looking at the permanents:
Dabrowski is in the last 6 months of his contract. If we can return Schofield, Kevin may stay otherwise he could go.

Bradley is in the last 6 months of his contract. Like Dabrowski he could benefit from getting a new team in January rather than being among hundreds of out of contract players at the end of May

Hauge should be allowed out on loan to get game time

Tavares could go out on loan to get game time if McGeady comes back and stays fit.

The rest of the 1st team squad are required until summer.
A lot riding on the fitness of Nisbet, Magennis, McGeady and Mitchell
A lot riding on McKirdy being a catalyst of unpredictability
The return of JDH whose injury predates our bad form is a more offensive option than Kenneh

Hopefully we can get a right sided wide player in on loan to replace Boyle.

One things for sure, none of us can guess with any certainty what will happen with Hibs this season.
Enjoy the journey!

Bradley has already been told he can leave.

[eastmainsmsh]

If clubs don't want to sign players LJ is looking to offload then Ron will have to pay up contracts hopefully he sees sense from this recruitment policy

[PHeffernan]

Bradley has already been told he can leave.

Yeah, Johnson got the news out early that he is available.
Hopefully he can get a contract with a decent Championship team or perhaps go back to Ireland on a permanent.

[PHeffernan]

If clubs don't want to sign players LJ is looking to offload then Ron will have to pay up contracts hopefully he sees sense from this recruitment policy

I don't see us offloading players in January other than those on loan to Hibs and those in the last 6 months of their contracts.
We will try to sell Porteous, send a few guys out on loan and bring in a Boyle replacement on loan.

[Unseen work]

There’s no way we’re not bringing players in, I’d still expect 3 players.

I think (hope) Johnson will be ruthless.

I think pre season raised his expectation levels of some players, mainly Henderson. Who he thought would be a key player and a real creative spark however since the season started he’s shown how poor and inconsistent he will be.

Johnson will not be under no doubt who is actually good enough, who’s good in short spells and who he considers key players.

[B.H.F.C]

There’s no way we’re not bringing players in, I’d still expect 3 players.

I think (hope) Johnson will be ruthless.

I think pre season raised his expectation levels of some players, mainly Henderson. Who he thought would be a key player and a real creative spark however since the season started he’s shown how poor and inconsistent he will be.

Johnson will not be under no doubt who is actually good enough, who’s good in short spells and who he considers key players.

Even if he does want to be ruthless, I’m just not so sure that he’ll be in a position to get those out the door that he wants because of their contracts. It was a problem in the summer having a significant number of underperforming/poor/non contributing contracted players and all we did was increase the number who fall in to that bracket.

[Hibiza]

Johnson says he plans to trim the squad.

Like I said in my previous post I am struggling to see who is going to be offloaded.

Loans could be terminated if available?

Wish he would trim his storytelling.

[Hibiza]

McGeady , Tavares , Bojang , Newell , JDH , Henderson, - goodbye.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

McGeady , Tavares , Bojang , Newell , JDH , Henderson, - goodbye.

You forgot Hanlon as well 😏

[JimBHibees]

Wish he would trim his storytelling.

In what way?

[Broken Gnome]

Wish he would trim his storytelling.

You should call him a story teller a bit more. You don't do it enough.

[PHeffernan]

McGeady , Tavares , Bojang , Newell , JDH , Henderson, - goodbye.

One word
Contracts

Two words
Not happening

Who can we get in on loan to replace Boyle?

[B.H.F.C]

One word
Contracts

Two words
Not happening

Who can we get in on loan to replace Boyle?

Could see us cutting Bojang’s loan short in January. Other than that, agree.

[Donegal Hibby]

One word
Contracts

Two words
Not happening

Who can we get in on loan to replace Boyle?
Agree with you Newell ,JDH , Henderson all have 3 years left , Tavares has 4 . Is the ex Ross county loanee playing now ? Joseph hungbo ? Thought he looked quite good . Just a suggestion like .

[PHeffernan]

Could see us cutting Bojang’s loan short in January. Other than that, agree.

Never been heard of since his extra training groin injury.
However, I saw a photo of the players running a couple of days ago and thought I spotted him.
A raw talent. In my heid Bojang is on loan for buttons so cutting short his loan wouldn't save much cash.
I don't see him playing this season so just a case of the coaches sizing him up and deciding if he can reach the required level.

[Unseen work]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lee-johnson-plans-to-trim-hibs-squad-in-january-as-he-laments-inherited-problem-3937660

Lee Johnson’s comments on trimming the squad, changing the budget to add more quality and 5-6 young players who will be ready over the next 18 months.

[Unseen work]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.

[JohnM1875]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.

I'm sure the source of the article is bull****. But heard a few folk saying it could well happen 😐

[J-C]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.


He'll be a hated man with the Hibs fans, does he want all the hassle that'll bring, won't be able to go for a wee drink with his mates out Dalkeith way.

[Crab apple]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.

Correct. It's total nonsense.

[Cod Boy]

Can see Dabrowski getting moved on

[MWHIBBIES]

McGeady , Tavares , Bojang , Newell , JDH , Henderson, - goodbye.

Newell will be going nowhere and rightfully so.

[Unseen work]

Can see Dabrowski getting moved on

Likewise, think he’ll want first team football and we will see Johnson as being able to fill in

[Forza Fred]

One word
Contracts

Two words
Not happening

Who can we get in on loan to replace Boyle?

Someone who has played at this world cup?

[CL0762]

Newell will be going nowhere and rightfully so.

Should be one of the first out the door.

[Donegal Hibby]

Should be one of the first out the door.
Why?

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.

I can and I can’t.

Rangers will love the fact he’s free so that instantly makes it a possibility. I can’t see their fans wanting him though.

He won’t get much of a game at either of the OF imo, especially Celtic. And if that’s the type of player Rangers are hoping will help them catch Celtic or compete in the Champions League then they’re in for a shock.

[Since452]

https://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2022/12/rangers-in-discussions-over-a-move-for-hibs-ryan-porteous/

Just can’t picture this.

The knuckle draggers in their support will have to quickly backtrack. They hate him.

[Since452]

Should be one of the first out the door.

I don't understand why Newell gets so much stick :confused:

[Big_Franck]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lee-johnson-plans-to-trim-hibs-squad-in-january-as-he-laments-inherited-problem-3937660

Lee Johnson’s comments on trimming the squad, changing the budget to add more quality and 5-6 young players who will be ready over the next 18 months.

That IMO is Johnson saying that he no longer wants to waste money on punts or development signings which only serve to bloat the squad and contribute little or nothing to the first team. He clearly wants to use that money for the first team. We'll see if the Gordons agree.

Not sure I entirely agree that he inherited that problem though, it was him that signed Bojang, Kyle McClelland, Lewis Miller and Tavares.

[J-C]

That IMO is Johnson saying that he no longer wants to waste money on punts or development signings which only serve to bloat the squad and contribute little or nothing to the first team. He clearly wants to use that money for the first team. We'll see if the Gordons agree.

Not sure I entirely agree that he inherited that problem though, it was him that signed Bojang, Kyle McClelland, Lewis Miller and Tavares.

Signed them yes because it's the Gordons' vision, he's probably had enough of it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Should be one of the first out the door.

Nope. Best midfield player. Why on earth would we get rid?

[theonlywayisup]

I don't understand why Newell gets so much stick :confused:

Because he goes into hiding when we need him most. I actually think he's a good player, our best midfielder, but not good enough. A lot of fans have had enough of the up and down performances. Some of his play has been very good and you could argue that all he needs is better around him. IMO he's one of the last players we should be getting rid of, but I can also understand why others don't agree.

Anyway, I'm bored of all this trading opinions on who's good and who's not. It's up to our recruitment team and manager to get a much better team on the pitch because what we have now will never be good enough, in my traded opinion.

[Smartie]

That IMO is Johnson saying that he no longer wants to waste money on punts or development signings which only serve to bloat the squad and contribute little or nothing to the first team. He clearly wants to use that money for the first team. We'll see if the Gordons agree.

Not sure I entirely agree that he inherited that problem though, it was him that signed Bojang, Kyle McClelland, Lewis Miller and Tavares.

I agree with all of this.

[supermcginn]

I don't understand why Newell gets so much stick :confused:

Maybe his very poor goals and assists record? Or selling the team down the river in the semi final with a ludicrous red card?

[Heisenberg]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lee-johnson-plans-to-trim-hibs-squad-in-january-as-he-laments-inherited-problem-3937660

Lee Johnson’s comments on trimming the squad, changing the budget to add more quality and 5-6 young players who will be ready over the next 18 months.

I found it interesting that he only singled out BK when talking about how they would deal with the budget. Used to always be a trio including Ian Gordon.

[chippy]

Agree with you Newell ,JDH , Henderson all have 3 years left , Tavares has 4 . Is the ex Ross county loanee playing now ? Joseph hungbo ? Thought he looked quite good . Just a suggestion like .

Hungbo only played 6 times for Watford this season so far

[Godsahibby]

Nope. Best midfield player. Why on earth would we get rid?

And that is what we should be most worried about. You are right he is our best midfield player yet offers very little. He goes missing in games we need it most, take the Killie game, Stevenson offered more than he did.

[andrew70]

Nope. Best midfield player. Why on earth would we get rid?

Haha good one. Although even if you were remotely correct then that alarmingly shows up our midfield problems. Poor player, all he does is foul.

[Hibernian Verse]

And that is what we should be most worried about. You are right he is our best midfield player yet offers very little. He goes missing in games we need it most, take the Killie game, Stevenson offered more than he did.

What does "goes missing" mean?

[itslegaltender]

Newell gives you one game in 4. Horrendous tackler and a liability when marking players in the box. He is everything that is wrong with the clubs signing policy of last 5 years.

[chippy]

I found it interesting that he only singled out BK when talking about how they would deal with the budget. Used to always be a trio including Ian Gordon.

A lot of wafflespeak again as he desperately tries to hang on to his job.

[Iain G]

A lot of wafflespeak again as he desperately tries to hang on to his job.

Mmmm waffles...

[MWHIBBIES]

Haha good one. Although even if you were remotely correct then that alarmingly shows up our midfield problems. Poor player, all he does is foul.

Sorry. I mistakenly believed you might've watched some matches. Joe does a lot more than foul. Just a laughable take that.


And that is what we should be most worried about. You are right he is our best midfield player yet offers very little. He goes missing in games we need it most, take the Killie game, Stevenson offered more than he did.

Its really nothing like as bad as folk make out. Our forwards and defense have been as bad if not worse than midfield this season. Try taking more than 1 match. He goes missing when we need him most? Did we not need him against Kilmarnock at home? Aberdeen? Rangers? Hearts etc when he played well? Just Kilmarnock away?

[MWHIBBIES]

Newell gives you one game in 4. Horrendous tackler and a liability when marking players in the box. He is everything that is wrong with the clubs signing policy of last 5 years.

Come on. Stop making stuff up. 1 good game in 4 lol. Thats Martin Boyle this season, not Newell.

[B.H.F.C]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lee-johnson-plans-to-trim-hibs-squad-in-january-as-he-laments-inherited-problem-3937660

Lee Johnson’s comments on trimming the squad, changing the budget to add more quality and 5-6 young players who will be ready over the next 18 months.

I don’t disagree with what Johnson says about needing to trim the squad and there being players that aren’t contributing to the first team. Where I disagree with him is that it was just an inherited problem. He oversaw a lot of that type of player coming in in the summer.

[McGruber]

I don’t disagree with what Johnson says about needing to trim the squad and there being players that aren’t contributing to the first team. Where I disagree with him is that it was just an inherited problem. He oversaw a lot of that type of player coming in in the summer.

Absolutely right. Squad is too big but you can't bring in what 13 or so players and dodge any liability for where we find ourselves

[Heisenberg]

A lot of wafflespeak again as he desperately tries to hang on to his job.

I don’t think any of what he’s said would lend itself to helping keep him in a job. He’s basically said we have been spending the money wrong and it’s going to change. He’s isn’t blameless in that of course, he came in and agreed with the strategy in place.

[CapitalGreen]

What does "goes missing" mean?

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

[Smartie]

I don’t think any of what he’s said would lend itself to helping keep him in a job. He’s basically said we have been spending the money wrong and it’s going to change. He’s isn’t blameless in that of course, he came in and agreed with the strategy in place.

I'd love to know where the responsibility for each transfer lies between Johnson and the recruitment team.

He doesn't sound happy and it's worth remembering that he wanted quite a lot of assurances before joining (crazy long interviews etc).

Johnson can't really afford a failure at Hibs on his cv, even if any failure is down to a nonsensical structure providing him with substandard players.

He was initially quite complimentary about quite a lot - it appears that the honeymoon period is most certainly over and he's struggling with it now.

[J-C]

He signed off on all the new players and agreed to whatever strategy was in place, up to him to get a song out of them.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

Interesting stats and they’re also over a significant amount of games to give them more credibility.

I’ve always thought we should be looking to replace Newell. People usually come up with some individual stats regarding his play and you start to wonder if he’s doing something you’re not seeing but those stats are quite telling. We’re a much more successful team with him not in it.

[Smartie]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

Newell absolutely 100% would not be the first one I'd be chasing out the door. I actually thought he was having an excellent season up until about half time in the Aberdeen game. Since then he's been, er, missing.

He has been a constant factor in a midfield that has underdelivered for some time though, and as he has obvious ability he might be one of the more obvious ones that someone might look to take off our hands (we'd probably all happily move Ewan Henderson on but could you seriously see anyone taking him off our hands?). If it came down to it, I reckon you could probably play Lewis Stevenson in Newell's position for the rest of the season and see no drop off in team performance, probably the opposite. If that freed up the cash to make the very necessary changes we need to make in the forward areas, or to supplement Stevenson in midfield then it might be worth it.

We can make a case for keeping every individual player who collectively form a brutal team and squad. The decisions are going to be tough and a bit painful. I remember decisions to shift Brebner and McManus being similar back in the day, but vindicated in the longer term.

[NC1875]

Correct. It's total nonsense.

You can’t see him signing for Rangers on 5-6 times his salary ? More fool you than Ryan.

[GloryGlory]

Leigh Griffiths arrested.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/ex-hibs-striker-leigh-griffiths-25655111

[EGL2000]

Baccus could be a shout, not sure how he has played over the whole season at the saints but had some standout performances. Looked very good in the worldcup when he's came on against much higher quality players, good age aswell. Possibly think he's alright out of our price range though.

[The Modfather]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

He also has 2 goals and 5 assists in the league over the last 2 1/2 seasons where he has been playing central midfield. He’s neat and tidy, and can look a class act on his day, however he has minimal impact on a game and is a big reason why our midfield has consistently been less than the sum of its, already meagre, parts IMO.

He’s not a defensive midfielder and can’t dictate a game from deep like McGeough could. He won’t contribute goals, assists or run ahead of the ball. So he’s not an offensive minded midfielder. I’m still not 100% sure what role he fulfils other than retaining possession, but for little purpose. I think your stats show that players with potentially less technical ability than Newell could actually contribute a lot more and positively influences games more than Newell does.

[chippy]

He signed off on all the new players and agreed to whatever strategy was in place, up to him to get a song out of them.
He’s preparing his excuses so he still remain employable after he’s bumped in 3 weeks time

[Smartie]

Baccus could be a shout, not sure how he has played over the whole season at the saints but had some standout performances. Looked very good in the worldcup when he's came on against much higher quality players, good age aswell. Possibly think he's alright out of our price range though.

You'd expect Ian Gordon to know a thing or two about him tbf.

[MWHIBBIES]

He’s preparing his excuses so he still remain employable after he’s bumped in 3 weeks time

Do you take some pleasure in saying things like this? Do you really hate the guy?

[Hibernian Verse]

Do you take some pleasure in saying things like this? Do you really hate the guy?

Think he has a wee chippy on his shoulder about something.

[Tambo]

I am not saying this website is the final answer to the Joe Newell debate but thought I'd like to add some more fuel on the fire.

So far this season i thought he went through a 3 or game streak where he looked a really good player with dominating the midfield and looking to get forward himself and the ball.

The games vs Hearts and rangers let's be honest he was nothing special, just ok when required for me.

This website thinks the same as a few posters on here.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/136775/Fixtures/Joe-Newell

It also says his style of play he commits fouls often which one poster said.

Also say he has no weakness in his game, so take this website site with a pinch of salt.

[Godsahibby]

He also has 2 goals and 5 assists in the league over the last 2 1/2 seasons where he has been playing central midfield. He’s neat and tidy, and can look a class act on his day, however he has minimal impact on a game and is a big reason why our midfield has consistently been less than the sum of its, already meagre, parts IMO.

He’s not a defensive midfielder and can’t dictate a game from deep like McGeough could. He won’t contribute goals, assists or run ahead of the ball. So he’s not an offensive minded midfielder. I’m still not 100% sure what role he fulfils other than retaining possession, but for little purpose. I think your stats show that players with potentially less technical ability than Newell could actually contribute a lot more and positively influences games more than Newell does.

I dont think I could sum my feelings up on him better. Teams more often than not allow us to have the ball, allowing him to spray the ball about the midfield. Yes those passes look good, neat, tidy but very rarelly is he or are those passes made where they will make a difference on a game. When we have an ask of the midfeld to step up and make a difference Newell has rarely delivered. That Killie game for me was everything wrong with us. Newell offered nothing in there, Stevenson was miles ahead of him.

[OldEast]

You'd expect Ian Gordon to know a thing or two about him tbf.

😄👍🏻🍷

[big gogs]

😄👍🏻🍷
Signing Bacchus would suit those that like a good whine.

[chippy]

Do you take some pleasure in saying things like this? Do you really hate the guy?

It’ll be hate speech next

[J-C]

😄👍🏻🍷

Took me far to long to work this out🤣🤣

[andrew70]

Sorry. I mistakenly believed you might've watched some matches. Joe does a lot more than foul. Just a laughable take that.



Its really nothing like as bad as folk make out. Our forwards and defense have been as bad if not worse than midfield this season. Try taking more than 1 match. He goes missing when we need him most? Did we not need him against Kilmarnock at home? Aberdeen? Rangers? Hearts etc when he played well? Just Kilmarnock away?

I go to every game, he’s horrendous and as soon as we get rid of the Tory imposter then our midfield will improve no end.

He’s posted missing week in week out. He never passes forward, he rarely shoots, he can’t dictate games and in his one “good” game out of five all he does is break up play constantly fouling rather than exerting any skill or good product on the pitch. See the Hearts 0-0 game for evidence.

He is garbage. You seem to want to accept that though. Strange, strange take from you again.

[SickBoy32]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

Damning statistics for newell those - I’m sure even his most loyal fans will struggle to explain them away

He’s not the worst of our current squad, far from it, but I think it’s long past time for him to move on back to the anonymity of the English lower leagues which will suit his anonymous playing style

Thanks for the goals in paisley and Bonnyrigg 👍

[JimBHibees]

I go to every game, he’s horrendous and as soon as we get rid of the Tory imposter then our midfield will improve no end.

He’s posted missing week in week out. He never passes forward, he rarely shoots, he can’t dictate games and in his one “good” game out of five all he does is break up play constantly fouling rather than exerting any skill or good product on the pitch. See the Hearts 0-0 game for evidence.

He is garbage. You seem to want to accept that though. Strange, strange take from you again.

:confused:

[Real Emerald]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

He’s a good football player but he has very little positive impact on our results. As you have pointed out he’s had a very negative impact on our results. Having said that, I don’t think I can remember many times in all my Hibs days when I could say I wouldn’t miss any of our midfielders if they left tomorrow, none of them are good enough for Hibs for varying reasons. Sad times.

[Scotty Leither]

He’s a good football player but he has very little positive impact on our results. As you have pointed out he’s had a very negative impact on our results. Having said that, I don’t think I can remember many times in all my Hibs days when I could say I wouldn’t miss any of our midfielders if they left tomorrow, none of them are good enough for Hibs for varying reasons. Sad times.

The midfield has been honking for too long now. We just will not spend the money required to bring in key players in that area. We’re pedestrian and slow and there’s guys in there that should be nowhere near a Hibs jersey.

[B.H.F.C]

He’s a good football player but he has very little positive impact on our results. As you have pointed out he’s had a very negative impact on our results. Having said that, I don’t think I can remember many times in all my Hibs days when I could say I wouldn’t miss any of our midfielders if they left tomorrow, none of them are good enough for Hibs for varying reasons. Sad times.

I’ll second that. Newell probably is the best of the bunch but its not a good bunch and he’s not a good player. It’s not just him, but more of the same is giving us more of the same. We simply have to sign a midfielder in January but we were saying that in the summer and last January and last summer. I just really don’t get why it’s being continuously neglected.

[CL0762]

Nope. Best midfield player. Why on earth would we get rid?

That’s not the glowing endorsement you think it is.

[J-C]

Damning statistics for newell those - I’m sure even his most loyal fans will struggle to explain them away

He’s not the worst of our current squad, far from it, but I think it’s long past time for him to move on back to the anonymity of the English lower leagues which will suit his anonymous playing style

Thanks for the goals in paisley and Bonnyrigg 👍


I'm pretty sure there's one who'll manage to make a positive case for him.

[NC1875]

He also has 2 goals and 5 assists in the league over the last 2 1/2 seasons where he has been playing central midfield. He’s neat and tidy, and can look a class act on his day, however he has minimal impact on a game and is a big reason why our midfield has consistently been less than the sum of its, already meagre, parts IMO.

He’s not a defensive midfielder and can’t dictate a game from deep like McGeough could. He won’t contribute goals, assists or run ahead of the ball. So he’s not an offensive minded midfielder. I’m still not 100% sure what role he fulfils other than retaining possession, but for little purpose. I think your stats show that players with potentially less technical ability than Newell could actually contribute a lot more and positively influences games more than Newell does.


Spot on with this. I’ve said it for long enough. He manages to make himself look busy without actually doing all that much.

Best of a very bad bunch but that’s certainly not an achievement when you look at the rest of our midfielders.

Depressing times

[MWHIBBIES]

Damning statistics for newell those - I’m sure even his most loyal fans will struggle to explain them away

He’s not the worst of our current squad, far from it, but I think it’s long past time for him to move on back to the anonymity of the English lower leagues which will suit his anonymous playing style

Thanks for the goals in paisley and Bonnyrigg 👍

I'll explain them away in a heartbeat. He plays every difficult match because he's our best midfield player and has been for years. Games we've won without him include Brora, Forfar, Arbroath and Cove. That was about 2 minutes research.

[MWHIBBIES]

I go to every game, he’s horrendous and as soon as we get rid of the Tory imposter then our midfield will improve no end.

He’s posted missing week in week out. He never passes forward, he rarely shoots, he can’t dictate games and in his one “good” game out of five all he does is break up play constantly fouling rather than exerting any skill or good product on the pitch. See the Hearts 0-0 game for evidence.

He is garbage. You seem to want to accept that though. Strange, strange take from you again.

Embarrassing post. Filled with absolute pish. Never passes forward :faf: are your eyes actually painted on?

[andrew70]

Embarrassing post. Filled with absolute pish. Never passes forward :faf: are your eyes actually painted on?

Please feel free to come to Ibrox (or wherever) with me and I’ll point out to you Newell’s facts in game if you’re really struggling as you seem with the truth.

[MWHIBBIES]

Please feel free to come to Ibrox (or wherever) with me and I’ll point out to you Newell’s facts in game if you’re really struggling as you seem with the truth.

Why wait till then. Go on hibs.tv and watch any extended highlights from this season and you'll see the rubbish your talking right away. Special mention for games against Rangers, Aberdeen and Kilmarnock at home. Excellent. Played very well in the Friday st Johnstone game too. Not managed too many aways this season due to money but he was nothing like our worst player in any match Ive watched this season.

[The Modfather]

I'll explain them away in a heartbeat. He plays every difficult match because he's our best midfield player and has been for years. Games we've won without him include Brora, Forfar, Arbroath and Cove. That was about 2 minutes research.

To counter some of those games you mention we also won at Tynecastle, finally got the Mcinnes hoodoo off our back in beating Aberdeen for the first time in a long time under Ross and clinched 3rd at Pittodrie that same season all without Newell.

Are you saying those stats are misleading because the games Newell doesn’t play are invariably easy games? There might well be an element of that, but Is there also an element of, at best Newell missing doesn’t really impact our results, and at worst we actually do better when he doesn’t play.

[B.H.F.C]

I'll explain them away in a heartbeat. He plays every difficult match because he's our best midfield player and has been for years. Games we've won without him include Brora, Forfar, Arbroath and Cove. That was about 2 minutes research.

Should check the league record, which doesn’t include them.

20/21 he didn’t play in 6 games. We won 5 and lost 1.

21/22 he didn’t play play in 11. We won 4, drew 4, lost 3. Hardly earth shattering, but better points per game than we had with him in the team.

No comparison this year as played every game.

[MWHIBBIES]

To counter some of those games you mention we also won at Tynecastle, finally got the Mcinnes hoodoo off our back in beating Aberdeen for the first time in a long time under Ross and clinched 3rd at Pittodrie that same season all without Newell.

Are you saying those stats are misleading because the games Newell doesn’t play are invariably easy games? There might well be an element of that, but Is there also an element of, at best Newell missing doesn’t really impact our results, and at worst we actually do better when he doesn’t play.

Yes we won at Tynie without him as he'd been injured for the 4 matches before it (we lost 3) after 3 wins and a draw in the 4 before that with him starting.


I don't think Newell is ideal for every match. He's not perfect. But no one can impartially look at our team this season and say he has been our worst, or one of our worst. It's pretty obvious people have formed at opinion, mostly right at the start of his tenure here, and are totally unwilling to change it. See that post about him being a Tory. Much of the hate isn't based on his ability and performances right now.

[CapitalGreen]

I'll explain them away in a heartbeat. He plays every difficult match because he's our best midfield player and has been for years. Games we've won without him include Brora, Forfar, Arbroath and Cove. That was about 2 minutes research.

Games we’ve won where he started include QoS, Alloa, Stranraer, Santa Coloma Hamilton and Cove. In fact games against those teams I mention make up 21% of his total wins as a starter post Covid.

We have a 6% win percentage in games he has started against Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Aberdeen. In the games he didn’t start against those same 4 teams our win percentage is 31%.

[MWHIBBIES]

Games we’ve won where he started include QoS, Alloa, Stranraer, Santa Coloma Hamilton and Cove. In fact games against those teams I mention make up 21% of his total wins as a starter post Covid.

We have a 6% win percentage in games he has started against Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Aberdeen. In the games he didn’t start against those same 4 teams our win percentage is 31%.

Fair enough. I struggle to argue with that. Would we have genuinely done better with Campbell, JDH etc instead? I don't think so. For example, the Aberdeen win under Maloney was a dreadful match that we won with a header from a corner. Newell absence really didn't make us better than night.

As I've said, Newell not perfect, still easily our best midfielder and one of our best performing players this season. Maybe about 3 I wouldn't punt before him.

[The Modfather]

Yes we won at Tynie without him as he'd been injured for the 4 matches before it (we lost 3) after 3 wins and a draw in the 4 before that with him starting.


I don't think Newell is ideal for every match. He's not perfect. But no one can impartially look at our team this season and say he has been our worst, or one of our worst. It's pretty obvious people have formed at opinion, mostly right at the start of his tenure here, and are totally unwilling to change it. See that post about him being a Tory. Much of the hate isn't based on his ability and performances right now.

I’m not sure I’d look at him and say he’s been out worst. However I’d not say he had stood out from the mediocrity overall either. He had a purple patch earlier in the season and was widely praised in line with that. However,Campbell also had a purple patch and has 4 goals this season.

I’d probably move on all midfielders before Newell. With the exception of Kenneh, who is raw but can maybe develop into a good player. My issue with Newell is that he’s 29, is one of the most experienced players, will be one of our top earners and we’ve seen all we will ever see from him. Some flashes of class in amongst inconsistency and questions about whether he particularly influences games or not. None of the other midfielders are good enough either, but they at least could, in theory anyway, develop further.

Until we move them all on, or at least they stop being first team players we will continue to struggle.

[CapitalGreen]

Fair enough. I struggle to argue with that. Would we have genuinely done better with Campbell, JDH etc instead? I don't think so. For example, the Aberdeen win under Maloney was a dreadful match that we won with a header from a corner. Newell absence really didn't make us better than night.

As I've said, Newell not perfect, still easily our best midfielder and one of our best performing players this season. Maybe about 3 I wouldn't punt before him.

I’m not arguing the case for JDH or JC, I think the three of them are not good enough. However, Newell is our oldest, most experienced and likely highest earning central midfielder.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think Newell is probably our best midfield player , I don't actually think any of them are bad players even though I've been disappointed with Henderson , feel it's more that the combination of them don't work ,they just aren't right together . Would really like to see a energetic creative midfielder signed , problem we have our current midfield players are all on 3 or 4 year contracts and won't be easy to move on . Personally I'd keep both Newell and Campbell, think Campbell has improved greatly

[LeithMike]

Newell is a nice footballer, he’s just not a midfielder. He has a laboured running style and he lunges rather than tackles. That’s just the way he’s made. He has had some really good games for Hibs but those have tended to be when he is up against a team stirring in and giving him space and time. Against pressing teams then he struggles particularly in transition. He’s certainly not a central midfielder for me.

While JDH is a more limited footballer he can do the defensive role well when he has somebody to give the ball to who will drive forward. I think we’d see a far better player in JDH if he is not playing with Newell.

If we could get Magennis fit then a midfield of JDH, Magennis and McGeady (or Campbell) probably wouldn’t be so bad. I had my doubts about Magennis after a poor start but thought he looked great in the St Johnstone game despite the sending off. That would be a huge turning point if we could build the team around him. Big if though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnM1875]

Not another Newell debate surely?

[Chip shop Joe]

I am beginning to think that Joe Newell is a poster on here!

[neil7908]

Fair enough. I struggle to argue with that. Would we have genuinely done better with Campbell, JDH etc instead? I don't think so. For example, the Aberdeen win under Maloney was a dreadful match that we won with a header from a corner. Newell absence really didn't make us better than night.

As I've said, Newell not perfect, still easily our best midfielder and one of our best performing players this season. Maybe about 3 I wouldn't punt before him.

I don't understand what you mean by "would we genuinely have done better with Campbell, JDH etc instead?". It's not a question of not knowing, he would have been replaced by someone else in those games and we DID do better. The facts are in.

I don't want to pile on here but you accused other posters of making up their mind about him from day one and refusing to change it, and you now have actual stats that show a clear uptick in our results without him and you aren't budging on your stance?

[Trinity Hibee]

Anyone aware of any players in championship sides who could make the step up straight away?

[Brightside]

This thread is awful. Thank god hibs.net is not an actual barometer for the general hibs support.

[The Modfather]

This thread is awful. Thank god hibs.net is not an actual barometer for the general hibs support.

I’m what way? The Newell debate? It’s taken the thread off on a tangent, but the actual debate has been quite constructive and analytical hasn’t it?

[the_ginger_hibee]

This thread is awful. Thank god hibs.net is not an actual barometer for the general hibs support.

I thought the last few pages were great actually, posts with reasoned insight and factual data, instead of just opinion. The data on Newell is very interesting and very hard to argue with - we are a better team without Joe.

Well done to the poster who put that together. Very refreshing.

[Smartie]

This thread is awful. Thank god hibs.net is not an actual barometer for the general hibs support.

I really don’t think it’s that bad, tbh it could be a whole lot worse.

Our form for a year now has been grim. We’ve got a big squad that isn’t meeting expectations. As far as I can see folk are having a fairly robust exchange of opinions about what we do to fix it.

Unfortunately I think we’re a bit past the stage where we can keep everyone, sprinkle a bit of magic dust and our fortunes improve. Any conversation regarding who we should be looking to move on and why is always going to feel a bit uncomfortable.

Football is a fairly cut throat performance business and I don’t think we’re any worse than any club that finds themselves below where they might expect to be.

[matty_f]

I thought the last few pages were great actually, posts with reasoned insight and factual data, instead of just opinion. The data on Newell is very interesting and very hard to argue with - we are a better team without Joe.

Well done to the poster who put that together. Very refreshing.

Was Newell the only differentiating factor in those games? It's not a good argument to simply say we win this many games with Newell and this many without.

[MWHIBBIES]

Was Newell the only differentiating factor in those games? It's not a good argument to simply say we win this many games with Newell and this many without.

Correct. If the other 10 consistently remained the same and Joe was the only change, sure. That's not the case, though.

[Brightside]

I’m what way? The Newell debate? It’s taken the thread off on a tangent, but the actual debate has been quite constructive and analytical hasn’t it?

The same people being consistently negative about the club. It’s so ducking boring. If people don’t like to so much go and get another hobby rather than saying they’ve watched hibs for 30 years and its always ****. It’s so ****ing dull.

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't understand what you mean by "would we genuinely have done better with Campbell, JDH etc instead?". It's not a question of not knowing, he would have been replaced by someone else in those games and we DID do better. The facts are in.

I don't want to pile on here but you accused other posters of making up their mind about him from day one and refusing to change it, and you now have actual stats that show a clear uptick in our results without him and you aren't budging on your stance?

Maybe this has changed, though? You point out a record Vs of, hearts and Aberdeen. Newell motm Vs Rangers and excellent in a win over Aberdeen. So certainly not better without him there.

[h18eeynick]

The same people being consistently negative about the club. It’s so ducking boring. If people don’t like to so much go and get another hobby rather than saying they’ve watched hibs for 30 years and its always ****. It’s so ****ing dull.
That is part of the problem though. People like me got fed up of travelling from Carlisle to home games so gave up my season ticket and got another hobby. Not been for at least 2 years but still follow by other methods. And no , i would not try and get a cup final ticket before anybody suggests I am a glory hunter. 50 years of following but would not call myself a supporter anymore as i do not support with cash

[Broken Gnome]

Newell's a decent player, but by now it's pretty much proven he can't consistently lead or influence a midfield of lesser players. Either we need good all round creative goalscoring players in there with him, or replace him with someone who contributes more.

He is part of the problem, the main problem and also not the problem.

[blackpoolhibs]

Iv'e always thought Newell was a very average player, a player who does all the neat and tidy things well that get his stats up to the top.

Iv'e also thought he's one of the biggest reasons why we plod along in games passing the ball sideways or backwards, and creating very little.

Personally i think he's been better this season at times, and he's far from the worst midfielder we have, but it's faint praise really, as i'd like to get rid of them all, but we all know that's not going to happen.

I want more from my midfielders than neat and tidy, although that is better than timid and weak for a couple of the others, and clueless and sheite for the rest.:rolleyes:

[keep the faith]

Newell is our best player. There you go. His reading of the game, workrate, passion consistency and ability would get him a game in any good hibs side of the last 20 years. We need better players around him.
I'm sick of reading the same old lazy stuff and not wanting to get involved in a soul draining debate. I do however want to say that there are many like me who sees what he brings and see full well that there are many issues in our team, but Joe Newell is not one of them.

[J-C]

The last 2 posts sum up Joe Newell and probably the whole midfield, some think he's crap or others who think he's a top player, when in fact he's bang in the middle.

[WhileTheChief..]

Newell is our best player. There you go. His reading of the game, workrate, passion consistency and ability would get him a game in any good hibs side of the last 20 years. We need better players around him.
I'm sick of reading the same old lazy stuff and not wanting to get involved in a soul draining debate. I do however want to say that there are many like me who sees what he brings and see full well that there are many issues in our team, but Joe Newell is not one of them.

Wouldn't even get on the bench.

He's average at best. As is our whole team, so I'm not singling him out and I don't really have a problem with him.

We need way better in future though. Results are showing that our squad isn't good enough, Newall included.

[truehibernian]

10 minutes to go in the derby, 0-0, you’ve a choice of Newell, Campbell, JDH or Henderson to bring off the bench to grab or create the winner ?

There’s the glaring issue for me sadly.

[MWHIBBIES]

10 minutes to go in the derby, 0-0, you’ve a choice of Newell, Campbell, JDH or Henderson to bring off the bench to grab or create the winner ?

There’s the glaring issue for me sadly.

I wish that one very specific scenario was our glaring issue.


Wouldn't even get on the bench.

He's average at best. As is our whole team, so I'm not singling him out and I don't really have a problem with him.

We need way better in future though. Results are showing that our squad isn't good enough, Newall included.

He is significantly better than average at his best.

[supermcginn]

Newell is our best player. There you go. His reading of the game, workrate, passion consistency and ability would get him a game in any good hibs side of the last 20 years. We need better players around him.
I'm sick of reading the same old lazy stuff and not wanting to get involved in a soul draining debate. I do however want to say that there are many like me who sees what he brings and see full well that there are many issues in our team, but Joe Newell is not one of them.
He wouldn't even get in the squad in the McLeish, mowbray or Stubbs or Lennon's teams.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Was Newell the only differentiating factor in those games? It's not a good argument to simply say we win this many games with Newell and this many without.

Whilst there’s obviously varying factors in each game the sample size is more than big enough to suggest that Newell being in the team or not plays a significant part in our fortunes.

[JimBHibees]

Iv'e always thought Newell was a very average player, a player who does all the neat and tidy things well that get his stats up to the top.

Iv'e also thought he's one of the biggest reasons why we plod along in games passing the ball sideways or backwards, and creating very little.

Personally i think he's been better this season at times, and he's far from the worst midfielder we have, but it's faint praise really, as i'd like to get rid of them all, but we all know that's not going to happen.

I want more from my midfielders than neat and tidy, although that is better than timid and weak for a couple of the others, and clueless and sheite for the rest.:rolleyes:

Kind of mirrors my thoughts on JN

[truehibernian]

I wish that one very specific scenario was our glaring issue.



He is significantly better than average at his best.

He wouldn’t be at Hibs in that case and there would be a clutch of clubs after him - there’s not.

[Since90+2]

Newell is our best player. There you go. His reading of the game, workrate, passion consistency and ability would get him a game in any good hibs side of the last 20 years. We need better players around him.
I'm sick of reading the same old lazy stuff and not wanting to get involved in a soul draining debate. I do however want to say that there are many like me who sees what he brings and see full well that there are many issues in our team, but Joe Newell is not one of them.

So who are you dropping for Newell out of McGinn, McGeough and Allan?

[Cat Stanton]

Any transfer news on the transfer thread..?

[theonlywayisup]

Iv'e always thought Newell was a very average player, a player who does all the neat and tidy things well that get his stats up to the top.

Iv'e also thought he's one of the biggest reasons why we plod along in games passing the ball sideways or backwards, and creating very little.

Personally i think he's been better this season at times, and he's far from the worst midfielder we have, but it's faint praise really, as i'd like to get rid of them all, but we all know that's not going to happen.

I want more from my midfielders than neat and tidy, although that is better than timid and weak for a couple of the others, and clueless and sheite for the rest.:rolleyes:

Yes, 100% agree with the above.

Our main problem area for a number of seasons has been midfield. No creativity. No goal threat. Lacking leaders.

[matty_f]

Whilst there’s obviously varying factors in each game the sample size is more than big enough to suggest that Newell being in the team or not plays a significant part in our fortunes.

That's nonsense. I don't mean to be rude but you can't draw a conclusion from that one stat.

[SaulGoodman]

I’m what way? The Newell debate? It’s taken the thread off on a tangent, but the actual debate has been quite constructive and analytical hasn’t it?

Has it? Like calling him a Tory imposter?

[theonlywayisup]

Any transfer news on the transfer thread..?

Don't be daft. You must know by now that the twice-yearly transfer thread is a great opportunity to have a go at Hibs players, present and in the recent past.

[AugustaHibs]

Don't be daft. You must know by now that the twice-yearly transfer thread is a great opportunity to have a go at Hibs players, present and in the recent past.

Could it also be down to the fact it’s the 3rd of December..

[Iain G]

Has it? Like calling him a Tory imposter?

So is he actually a Tory or an imposter Tory? Is the OP unhappy he is a Tory or is pretending to be one? Am confused 😁

[MWHIBBIES]

He wouldn’t be at Hibs in that case and there would be a clutch of clubs after him - there’s not.

You don't understand what ''at best'' means. On his very best day, he is not average. Thats bollocks.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That's nonsense. I don't mean to be rude but you can't draw a conclusion from that one stat.

We’re a more succesful team without Newell in it. And by some margin. You can quite easily draw that conclusion from the stats provided.

[Iain G]

We’re a more succesful team without Newell in it. And by some margin. You can quite easily draw that conclusion from the stats provided.

It's like saying we are a much worse team without Messi in it 🤣

[Paulie Walnuts]

So who are you dropping for Newell out of McGinn, McGeough and Allan?

Or Brown, Thomson and Boozy.

Newell maybe would get a game for a lot of our midfields over the last 20 years. But that’s because we’ve largely been crap over the last 20 years much like we’re crap now.

Any of our periods of having a good team who wouldn’t be getting a start.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's like saying we are a much worse team without Messi in it 🤣

Aye, that’s what it’s like. :confused:

[SHODAN]

Did you know that Joe Newell divides opinion

[B.H.F.C]

Newell is our best player. There you go. His reading of the game, workrate, passion consistency and ability would get him a game in any good hibs side of the last 20 years. We need better players around him.
I'm sick of reading the same old lazy stuff and not wanting to get involved in a soul draining debate. I do however want to say that there are many like me who sees what he brings and see full well that there are many issues in our team, but Joe Newell is not one of them.

It’s often said that he just needs better players around him. But the same ‘inferior’ players that he plays with have been shown to manage better results in his absence. For a player of his supposed influence that says something about the actual influence he has on the team IMO.

[NC1875]

Joe Newell is our best player 🤣🤣🤣

Bit early to be drinking is it not.

[Chip shop Joe]

Joe Newell is a good football player but very rarely scores or creates any goals.

He is not a great tackler and is not a defensive midfielder so not sure what he actually brings to the team.

[Logie Green]

Joe Newell is a good football player but very rarely scores or creates any goals.

He is not a great tackler and is not a defensive midfielder so not sure what he actually brings to the team.

So not that good after all then? 😜

[MWHIBBIES]

Joe Newell is a good football player but very rarely scores or creates any goals.

He is not a great tackler and is not a defensive midfielder so not sure what he actually brings to the team.

Everything else? I mean, surely you don't think that is all midfielders do.

Firstly, he'd have half a dozen assists this season if our forwards could finish. Some of his passes have been exceptional.

He wins the ball back a lot. He is always there for a pass, especially from our defenders, helping us move the ball forward. Hibs this season have created so many more chances than last and he is a big reason for that. Not just directly, but moving it wide for Cadden/Cabraja/Boyle.

[HibsGW]

It's like saying we are a much worse team without Messi in it 🤣

The only way I can interpret this is “we’re that obviously worse with Newell in the team that it’d be as obvious as saying we’d be a worse team without Messi” but not sure if thats what you’re meaning

[Iain G]

Did you know that Joe Newell divides opinion

He splits opinion like one of his defence splitting passes 😁

[Iain G]

The only way I can interpret this is “we’re that obviously worse with Newell in the team that it’d be as obvious as saying we’d be a worse team without Messi” but not sure if thats what you’re meaning

I meant the Joe Newall "stat" that was mentioned doesn't take into account any other factors of the team set up, who else was playing, how the opposition played etc that in itself it's a meaningless thing! Which I was highlighting 😁

[matty_f]

We’re a more succesful team without Newell in it. And by some margin. You can quite easily draw that conclusion from the stats provided.

We finished third with Newell a regular in the team.

[matty_f]

I meant the Joe Newall "stat" that was mentioned doesn't take into account any other factors of the team set up, who else was playing, how the opposition played etc that in itself it's a meaningless thing! Which I was highlighting 😁

:agree:

[Paulie Walnuts]

We finished third with Newell a regular in the team.

And even in that season we picked up significantly more points when he wasn’t in the team.

[The Modfather]

We finished third with Newell a regular in the team.

Gogic was also a regular and actually played more games and minutes than Newell that season.

The stats don’t tell the full story but they do tell a relevant story IMO and it’s no coincidence the stats are damning. Otherwise we’d not ever be able to look at a players goalscoring record, or a defensive record etc as it doesn’t take into account who was playing game to game etc.

For those talking about hypothetical assists Newel should really have had. Are we doing that for all players and either hypothetically removing goals conceded and giving others goals and assists that we’re giving to Newell?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Gogic was also a regular and actually played more games and minutes than Newell that season.

The stats don’t tell the full story but they do tell a relevant story IMO and it’s no coincidence the stats are damning. Otherwise we’d not ever be able to look at a players goalscoring record, or a defensive record etc as it doesn’t take into account who was playing game to game etc.

For those talking about hypothetical assists Newel should really have had. Are we doing that for all players and either hypothetically removing goals conceded and giving others goals and assists that we’re giving to Newell?

:agree:

Nobody is suggesting that Newell is single handedly costing us the difference in every single point from when he plays/doesn’t play.

Over a 100 game period though it’s no coincidence that we pick up a hell of a lot more points without him.

As for giving him hypothetical assists, the fact it comes to that to make a case for him is telling in itself.

[Hibiza]

Joe Newell is a good football player but very rarely scores or creates any goals.

He is not a great tackler and is not a defensive midfielder so not sure what he actually brings to the team.

Very very little.

[RMQ1967]

The same people being consistently negative about the club. It’s so ducking boring. If people don’t like to so much go and get another hobby rather than saying they’ve watched hibs for 30 years and its always ****. It’s so ****ing dull.

Absolutely this. Gloom-ridden individuals who can't give credit for the many off-field improvements around the club. The same ones who would be moaning about a **** stadium, **** hospitality, **** pitch, **** sponsor revenue and anything else they could use to have a go at the club about.

It's not great on the pitch at the moment but the club has never been in better shape off it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

sellick have signed alastair johnston from CF Montreal, a defender that played in all canadian WC games


5 year contract

[Chip shop Joe]

Everything else? I mean, surely you don't think that is all midfielders do.

Firstly, he'd have half a dozen assists this season if our forwards could finish. Some of his passes have been exceptional.

He wins the ball back a lot. He is always there for a pass, especially from our defenders, helping us move the ball forward. Hibs this season have created so many more chances than last and he is a big reason for that. Not just directly, but moving it wide for Cadden/Cabraja/Boyle.

Is that you Joe?

Yes that is exactly what midfielders do? If you are a holding midfielder you win tackles, he does not do that.

If you are an attacking midfielder or play maker you create chances and score goals. He does none of these things, so for all that he is a decent footballer he contributes next to nothing. He is probably one of our top earners and someone who we would not miss if he went.

You obviously think he is a very good player and more than pulling his weight. I would argue that he is a big part of what is wrong with the team (no aggression, no cutting edge and neat and tidy without actually doing anything of note within a game).

[MWHIBBIES]

Is that you Joe?

Yes that is exactly what midfielders do? If you are a holding midfielder you win tackles, he does not do that.

If you are an attacking midfielder or play maker you create chances and score goals. He does none of these things, so for all that he is a decent footballer he contributes next to nothing. He is probably one of our top earners and someone who we would not miss if he went.

You obviously think he is a very good player and more than pulling his weight. I would argue that he is a big part of what is wrong with the team (no aggression, no cutting edge and neat and tidy without actually doing anything of note within a game).

Joe Newell creates a lot of chances for us. I've already given multiple examples of this.

God, you've got some football to watch. Wait till you find out about Toni Kroos or Luka Modric. Midfielders these days do significantly more than assist and score, or win tackles. This isn't 1950 bud. Again, Newell actually wins plenty of possessions for Hibs. He just doesn't do it by smashing a guy like Marv so it doesn't count.

[Since90+2]

Newell, like most of the squad, is not particularly great but he's not absolutely awful either.

We should be aiming to bring in better players than him, but that doesn't mean he's *****.

He's just pretty,well,mehhh.

[Just_Jimmy]

Absolutely this. Gloom-ridden individuals who can't give credit for the many off-field improvements around the club. The same ones who would be moaning about a **** stadium, **** hospitality, **** pitch, **** sponsor revenue and anything else they could use to have a go at the club about.

It's not great on the pitch at the moment but the club has never been in better shape off it.

Actually, if the team was playing exciting attacking football, scoring goals and winning games, then very few people would be moaning about anything you've listed.

I couldn't give a toss about most of it as long as we're winning.

We're not winning.

We're not in great shape off the pitch anyway, we're a shambles. We have absolutely zero identity and I, and I suspect many others feel little connection to what's going on at hibs these days.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Chip shop Joe]

Joe Newell creates a lot of chances for us. I've already given multiple examples of this.

God, you've got some football to watch. Wait till you find out about Toni Kroos or Luka Modric. Midfielders these days do significantly more than assist and score, or win tackles. This isn't 1950 bud. Again, Newell actually wins plenty of possessions for Hibs. He just doesn't do it by smashing a guy like Marv so it doesn't count.

Ah ok mate, you do make me laugh. Modern midfielders do “significantly” more than tackle, score and create assists? Not sure there is significantly more they can do except perhaps side ways passes, which I accept Joe excels at.

Joe is our version of the multi champions league winning Modric or Kroos . I have changed my mind we better get his contract extended ASAP. It is wonder that no one over the years has never tried to sign him! Perhaps they have seen him play and read his stats.

[Donegal Hibby]

sellick have signed alastair johnston from CF Montreal, a defender that played in all canadian WC games


5 year contract
They are also getting linked with another Japanese player and the Korean player that scored in there last game

[matty_f]

:agree:

Nobody is suggesting that Newell is single handedly costing us the difference in every single point from when he plays/doesn’t play.

Over a 100 game period though it’s no coincidence that we pick up a hell of a lot more points without him.

As for giving him hypothetical assists, the fact it comes to that to make a case for him is telling in itself.

Where are you getting these stats from?

[Brightside]

Would be nice if admins did some thread tidying. This is a transfer thread, can we not have other threads to slag Joe Newell.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Where are you getting these stats from?

Capital Green posted them yesterday lunchtime.

[matty_f]

Try and think of one occasion where when the chips were down, Newell stepped up to the plate and took a game by the scruff of the neck. He’s our most experienced central midfielder but when we need him most he disappears as things get tough. His second half performances in the recent Aberdeen game was an absolute disgrace.

Since the start of season 2020/21 when he established himself as first choice central midfielder, Hibs have played 121 games in all competitions. Below is our record in games in which he starts and games in which he doesn’t start.

26311

Even during season 2020/21 when we finished 3rd and reached Hampden twice, our record was significantly better in games which Newell didn’t start.

26312

Where did you get these stats, please?

[matty_f]

Capital Green posted them yesterday lunchtime.

Just having a look at them, even more flawed than the original assessment, you can't compare a sample size of 98 of one argument against 23 of the other.

How many of the games that he didn't start did he play a part in?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Just having a look at them, even more flawed than the original assessment, you can't compare a sample size of 98 of one argument against 23 of the other.

How many of the games that he didn't start did he play a part in?

Yes, you can. You don’t need a player to have played an equal amount of games to games they haven’t played for the stats to be relevant.

From having a quick look he hasn’t played a part in any games he didn’t start in over that period. So he’s certainly not being done a disservice re the games he hasn’t played.

[B.H.F.C]

Just having a look at them, even more flawed than the original assessment, you can't compare a sample size of 98 of one argument against 23 of the other.

How many of the games that he didn't start did he play a part in?

Never came on in any of the games he didn’t start. In the last couple of years. He’s only really missed games when he’s not been available. And we’ve not missed him.

[matty_f]

Yes, you can.

From having a quick look he hasn’t played a part in any games he didn’t start in over that period.

Yeah you can, but your conclusion will be meaningless.

[matty_f]

Never came on in any of the games he didn’t start. In the last couple of years. He’s only really missed games when he’s not been available. And we’ve not missed him.

Newell's never been subbed on? Interesting stat!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah you can, but your conclusion will be meaningless.

So you can only compare games he hasn’t played and games he has played if they happen to be of exactly equal amounts?

Absolute nonsense. There’s nothing meaningless about the stats. We pick up significantly better results without Newell in the team.

[matty_f]

So you can only compare games he hasn’t played and games he has played if they happen to be of exactly equal amounts?

Absolute nonsense. There’s nothing meaningless about the stats. We pick up significantly better results without Newell in the team.

They don't have to be equal bit in the ball park makes them meaningful.

What you're looking at is stats where there are so many different variables that influence the result that you're using to measure (wins/points per game) where one side is significantly greater than the other to draw a conclusion. It's ridiculously flawed and incredibly basic to draw the conclusion you're drawing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They don't have to be equal bit in the ball park makes them meaningful.

What you're looking at is stats where there are so many different variables that influence the result that you're using to measure (wins/points per game) where one side is significantly greater than the other to draw a conclusion. It's ridiculously flawed and incredibly basic to draw the conclusion you're drawing.

They’re both significant amounts of games and both of the samples contain every single game over the last 2 and a half seasons. There’s nothing selective about it and there’s more than enough games on both sides of the argument to draw a conclusion. You’re making out like he’s only ever missed 1 game and we won it, if that was the case you’d have a point.

[CapitalGreen]

Newell's never been subbed on? Interesting stat!

Over the period in question (post covid break), Newell has been subbed on once. That was at half time against Clyde when we were winning 5-0.

[CapitalGreen]

Where did you get these stats, please?

Transfermarkt

[matty_f]

They’re both significant amounts of games and both of the samples contain every single game over the last 2 and a half seasons. There’s nothing selective about it and there’s more than enough games on both sides of the argument to draw a conclusion. You’re making out like he’s only ever missed 1 game and we won it, if that was the case you’d have a point.

Newell starting or not the only variable?

[matty_f]

Transfermarkt

Cheers!

[B.H.F.C]

Newell's never been subbed on? Interesting stat!

He will have been in his first season I’d think.

But in 20/21 and 21/22, when he became a central midfield first pick, he wasn’t as far as I can see. Quick look and he came on as a sub against Clyde this season.

As I say, over the last couple of years he’s basically only been left out when injured.

[matty_f]

He will have been in his first season I’d think.

But in 20/21 and 21/22, when he became a central midfield first pick, he wasn’t as far as I can see. Quick look and he came on as a sub against Clyde this season.

As I say, over the last couple of years he’s basically only been left out when injured.

I wasn't doubting, just thought it was a quirky stat.

[CapitalGreen]

Just having a look at them, even more flawed than the original assessment, you can't compare a sample size of 98 of one argument against 23 of the other.

How many of the games that he didn't start did he play a part in?

Of course you can compare different sample sizes if you use standardisation when reporting the statistics such as PPG or as a percentage.

For example, strikers will have their scoring rates compared using a goals per game statistic despite them not having played the same number of games as each other.

[MWHIBBIES]

Ah ok mate, you do make me laugh. Modern midfielders do “significantly” more than tackle, score and create assists? Not sure there is significantly more they can do except perhaps side ways passes, which I accept Joe excels at.

Joe is our version of the multi champions league winning Modric or Kroos . I have changed my mind we better get his contract extended ASAP. It is wonder that no one over the years has never tried to sign him! Perhaps they have seen him play and read his stats.

Yes, they do. Watch Frenkie de Jong in this second half.

[matty_f]

Of course you can compare different sample sizes if you use standardisation when reporting the statistics such as PPG or as a percentage.

For example, strikers will have their scoring rates compared using a goals per game statistic despite them not having played the same number of games as each other.
You can't, the PPG in the small sample is impacted to a greater extent by each win or loss than the big sample.

And again, the other variables - opponents, venue, manager, tactics, other ten players selected, match events (red cards etc) and so on are completely ignored. It's maybe factually accurate to say we statistically get more points with Newell out of the team than in but it's such a basic conclusion to draw that it's meaningless.

[The Modfather]

Newell starting or not the only variable?

What comparisons can be made in football where there is only one variable to compare? The comparison of results when someone is playing v not is fairly common. Gary Neville did the same analysis on MNF for Ronaldo and showed Man U were a better team without Ronaldo than with him in terms of PPG and goals scored.

[Iain G]

Have we taken the fact he didn't play in the 7-0 or 6-2 games to count against him? 😁

[matty_f]

What comparisons can be made in football where there is only one variable to compare? The comparison of results when someone is playing v not is fairly common. Gary Neville did the same analysis on MNF for Ronaldo and showed Man U were a better team without Ronaldo than with him in terms of PPG and goals scored.

Yeah and they're dumbed down for the sky sports audience to absorb in the space of three minutes.

You can't accurately assess the impact of one player on a team's success but just looking at the headline, unless you just want a meaningless soundbite conclusion.

How do Newell's stats compare against others in the team, for example? Who else missed the games that he missed our played on the ones he played in?

[The Modfather]

Yeah and they're dumbed down for the sky sports audience to absorb in the space of three minutes.

You can't accurately assess the impact of one player on a team's success but just looking at the headline, unless you just want a meaningless soundbite conclusion.

How do Newell's stats compare against others in the team, for example? Who else missed the games that he missed our played on the ones he played in?

I think it’s fair to say these stat’s aren’t definitive, few stats are, but there’s a massive middle ground between that and dismissing them. Do you think the stats provide any insight without them being definitive? I’d not go as far to argue that we are a much better team without Newell than with him, however I fail to see anything that suggests Newell has much of an impact on games, which is damning in itself IMO.

Someone else mentioned goals per minutes. I’ve never seen the same level of scrutiny over that comparison as this analysis is receiving.

[Danderhall Hibs]

The stats show that Macey is better than Marshall don’t they?

[matty_f]

I think it’s fair to say these stat’s aren’t definitive, few stats are, but there’s a massive middle ground between that and dismissing them. Do you think the stats provide any insight without them being definitive? I’d not go as far to argue that we are a much better team without Newell than with him, however I fail to see anything that suggests Newell has much of an impact on games, which is damning in itself IMO.

Someone else mentioned goals per minutes. I’ve never seen the same level of scrutiny over that comparison as this analysis is receiving.

Personally speaking I think in this case the insight is virtually worthless for the various reasons I've covered. There's a big difference between correlation and causation and while I have already accepted these stats would give you a soundbite/headline conclusion they don't tell you anything about Newell's impact on the team.

[Iain G]

So are we signing this Newall bloke in January?

[Bridge hibs]

So are we signing this Newall bloke in January?We should be looking at that Handling guy from Fc Edinburgh, unsure if he is a striker or a midfielder but he certainly seems to score most weeks

[The Modfather]

Personally speaking I think in this case the insight is virtually worthless for the various reasons I've covered. There's a big difference between correlation and causation and while I have already accepted these stats would give you a soundbite/headline conclusion they don't tell you anything about Newell's impact on the team.

Fair enough, agree to disagree in that case.

[matty_f]

The stats show that Macey is better than Marshall don’t they?

Apparently so.

[Chip shop Joe]

Yes, they do. Watch Frenkie de Jong in this second half.

0 goals, 0 assists and a defensive midfielder (albeit one who can do a bit of everything). His second half stats are similar to Newell! Is Joe Newell now a defensive midfielder?

You keep mentioning these world class players like they are even remotely similar to Newell. They have ability to undertake any midfield role to a high level and sadly Joe does not.

[cabbageandribs1875]

They are also getting linked with another Japanese player and the Korean player that scored in there last game



they're turning Japanese
i think they're turning Japanese

i really think so








and Korean
and Canadian

:)

[Donegal Hibby]

they're turning Japanese
i think they're turning Japanese

i really think so








and Korean
and Canadian

:)
That's the talk talk anyhow 😉

[HoboHarry]

they're turning Japanese
i think they're turning Japanese

i really think so








and Korean
and Canadian

:)

Aneka will be thrilled, she was missing her Japanese Boy.

[MWHIBBIES]

0 goals, 0 assists and a defensive midfielder (albeit one who can do a bit of everything). His second half stats are similar to Newell! Is Joe Newell now a defensive midfielder?

You keep mentioning these world class players like they are even remotely similar to Newell. They have ability to undertake any midfield role to a high level and sadly Joe does not.

Quality is relative,though. Frenkie De Jong plays against world class players, Newell doesn't. Its the type of player I'm speaking about.

Frenkie de Jong isn't a defensive midfielder.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The stats show that Macey is better than Marshall don’t they?

Bit different when you’re comparing someone who’s played 19 games as Marshall has. The comparison with Newell is taking into account 120 or so games, a hell of a long time rather than a matter of months.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Bit different when you’re comparing someone who’s played 19 games as Marshall has. The comparison with Newell is taking into account 120 or so games, a hell of a long time rather than a matter of months.

Why is it different? One of the stats about Newell was comparing 20odd games I think.

19 games is enough to make some saves and that. Turn it into %ages or something so it’s a like for like. And/or use 19 games of Maceys.

Effectively pick and choose the stats that suit the argument.

[EGL2000]

Interesting article on twitter about Porto replacement. These three names all suggested two interesting options. Stephen Welsh, Bjorn Inge Utvik, Andreas Skovgaard.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Why is it different? One of the stats about Newell was comparing 20odd games I think.

19 games is enough to make some saves and that. Turn it into %ages or something so it’s a like for like.

No, the stats about Newell were over a 120 game period. What you’re suggesting about Marshall is over a 19 game period.

You’re talking about something which could pretty much be considered a run of form compared to something that has made up a considerable amount of Joe Newells career.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No, the stats about Newell were over a 120 game period.

Macey didn’t play 120 games either. How do we make the comparison?

[B.H.F.C]

Interesting article on twitter about Porto replacement. These three names all suggested two interesting options. Stephen Welsh, Bjorn Inge Utvik, Andreas Skovgaard.

I could see Welsh being a possibility on loan in January. Celtic just signed a Japanese centre half so they have 4 that will all be ahead of him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Macey didn’t play 120 games either. How do we make the comparison?

And that’s what numerous people have said on this thread.

The argument that the stats about Newell show nothing would have a bit more merit if we were talking about it being over a handful of games (a bit like what you’re attempting to do with Marshall). Variables will be able to skew the statistics a lot more over a short period than they will over a longer period.

The fact they’re over 120 games gives plenty time to get a proper good idea of how we do with Joe Newell in our team or not, much like you get a better idea of how good a player is after a significant amount of games rather than 1 or 2.

We’re talking 2 and a half years of evidence compared to a matter of months. 6 times the amount of games of evidence.

If Marshall and Macey had played masses of games it would give you a reasonable comparison. Attempting to use it after 19 doesn’t.

[EGL2000]

I could see Welsh being a possibility on loan in January. Celtic just signed a Japanese centre half so they have 4 that will all be ahead of him.

Yeah could see this aswell struggled when in Europe but usually looks decent enough in the Scottish games.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And that’s what numerous people have said on this thread.

The argument that the stats about Newell show nothing would have a bit more merit if we were talking about it being over a handful of games (a bit like what you’re attempting to do with Marshall). Variables will be able to skew the statistics a lot more over a short period than they will over a longer period.

The fact they’re over 120 games gives plenty time to get a proper good idea of how we do with Joe Newell in our team or not, much like you get a better idea of how good a player is after a significant amount of games rather than 1 or 2.

We’re talking 2 and a half years of evidence compared to a matter of months. 6 times the amount of games of evidence.

If Marshall and Macey had played masses of games it would give you a reasonable comparison. Attempting to use it after 19 doesn’t.

What do you think the basis for calling Macey to be not of the required standard was based on if he hadn’t played enough games to qualify for the use of stats?

[Paulie Walnuts]

What do you think the basis for calling Macey to be not of the required standard was based on if he hadn’t played enough games to qualify for the use of stats?

Macey played 52 games for Hibs over 2 years. Not far off triple what Marshall has played.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Macey played 52 games for Hibs over 2 years. Bit different to 19 games over 4 months.

Most of the 52 were in 1 season though.

[Hibiza]

they're turning Japanese
i think they're turning Japanese

i really think so








and Korean
and Canadian

:)

Nice one

[Paulie Walnuts]

Most of the 52 were in 1 season though.

ok, 44 over 1 season. A hell of a lot more games than the sample being used for Marshall.

[Danderhall Hibs]

ok, 44 over 1 season. A hell of a lot more games than the sample being used for Marshall.

Just over double. Feels like the stats can be used. Mainly cos it backs up my point. Obviously if the stats didn’t do that I wouldn’t use them.

[EGL2000]

Spezia after Henderson will be his fifth Italian club.

[Mainstandman]

Spezia after Henderson will be his fifth Italian club.

Those first three words got my hopes up

[matty_f]

ok, 44 over 1 season. A hell of a lot more games than the sample being used for Marshall.

The comparison is Macey (lots of games) v Marshall (not many games).

That's not ok.

Newell's games played (Lots of games) v Newell's missed games (not many games) is a good measure though.

That about right?

[stevie-bee]

I could see Welsh being a possibility on loan in January. Celtic just signed a Japanese centre half so they have 4 that will all be ahead of him.

I know his dad ,normally speak to him at least once a week ,
He hasn't mentioned anything
He told me a few years ago Jack Ross tried to get him on loan as a replacement for porto who was meant to be going to Millwall

[LeithMike]

The comparison is Macey (lots of games) v Marshall (not many games).

That's not ok.

Newell's games played (Lots of games) v Newell's missed games (not many games) is a good measure though.

That about right?

I’m not one for stats myself and prefer using the eye. I often think that with fans the result (itself a stat) camouflages over the actual performance and I’ve seen Hibs cheered off for playing poorly in a 1-0 win yet booed off if losing despite a good performance.

Macey v Marshall stats don’t really cut it as they are playing in different teams. That’s not really that helpful if the team has changed in performance significantly.

I’ve no idea where the Newell stats come from but if they’re correct then they do provide a valuable insight as it is telling you how the same Hibs team does with and without him. That is useful information.

There is no doubt that Newell is a skill full footballer but he’s not made for midfield given the obvious deficiencies in his make-up (mobility and tackling). It makes us poor in transition. It also places greater pressure on the other midfielders. I just don’t see where Newell fits in a successful midfield for Hibs. He’s a great passer but when played as a 6 recently he didn’t do a great job dropping deep to pick up the ball and he really can’t tackle nor have the habit of being in the right position at the right time. He’s not great at running and that means he struggles as an 8, he also doesn’t seem to have the goals and assist to play as a 10 although if he is playing that’s probably where I’d play him.

There’s no doubt he can be pleasing on the eye but I think if Hibs want to move up the league then we need a different type of player as an 8. I’m not surprised the stats back that up (albeit I wouldn’t put too much weight on them). I also think JDH will look a lot better with a more conventional and industrial midfielder alongside him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JammyDoidger]

Stephen Welsh will be better than Porto if we can get him.

[Logie Green]

Interesting article on twitter about Porto replacement. These three names all suggested two interesting options. Stephen Welsh, Bjorn Inge Utvik, Andreas Skovgaard.

If Porteous does go and Will Fish is not his replacement no doubt the boffins in the recruitment department will identify, through the wonder of watching on a screen rather than in person, a young, inexperienced, foreigner with a penchant for being injured but with a potential re-sale value. I hope I’m wrong though.

[Iain G]

If Porteous does go and Will Fish is not his replacement no doubt the boffins in the recruitment department will identify, through the wonder of watching on a screen rather than in person, a young, inexperienced, foreigner with a penchant for being injured but with a potential re-sale value. I hope I’m wrong though.

You will be wrong 🙄

[MWHIBBIES]

If Porteous does go and Will Fish is not his replacement no doubt the boffins in the recruitment department will identify, through the wonder of watching on a screen rather than in person, a young, inexperienced, foreigner with a penchant for being injured but with a potential re-sale value. I hope I’m wrong though.

Did you miss us signing Marshall, Boyle, Cabraja etc in the summer?

[bigwheel]

Stephen Welsh will be better than Porto if we can get him.

I’d agree with that…think he will get a better move than us unfortunately


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Logie Green]

Did you miss us signing Marshall, Boyle, Cabraja etc in the summer?

No.

[Fergus52]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.

[Sioux]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.

Spot on. The selective stats chat is mostly to amplify an opinion, and some how make that opinion credible, without taking other relevant stats into consideration. Its all opinion bias.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.

What are his stats on those things? As far as I’m aware they’ve not been posted, so I’m not sure anyone is ‘blatantly ignoring’ anything.

[theonlywayisup]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.

And that is the problem, he is our best midfielder but it's evident to many that his play is not good enough for where we want to be.

I think he's had many games this season where I think he's played well, but then when I sit down and reflect on the game, he needs a much better quality of player around him. I'd say he's comparable to McGeough at his prime, who would struggle in this Hibs team.

[CapitalGreen]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.

According to FBRef and Whoscored data*.

This season in the Premiership, Joe Newell:

- Ranks 111th for Interceptions per 90.

- Ranks 56th for Tackles per 90.

- Ranks 7th for chances created.

*Data set includes all outfield players who have played a minimum of 450 minutes in the Scottish Premiership (the equivalent of at least 5 x 90 minute matches).

The majority of chances created by Newell come from set pieces and not open play. He has registered one league assist in the previous 12 months. His only other assist in that period coming against Bonnyrigg Rose.

[Brightside]

What are his stats on those things? As far as I’m aware they’ve not been posted, so I’m not sure anyone is ‘blatantly ignoring’ anything.

Hibs post them all the time. He had some of the best recovery stats in the league.

[Paulie Walnuts]

According to FBRef and Whoscored data*.

This season in the Premiership, Joe Newell:

- Ranks 111th for Interceptions per 90.

- Ranks 56th for Tackles per 90.

- Ranks 7th for chances created.

*Data set includes all outfield players who have played a minimum of 450 minutes in the Scottish Premiership (the equivalent of at least 5 x 90 minute matches).

The majority of chances created by Newell come from set pieces and not open play. He has registered one league assist in the previous 12 months. His only other assist in that period coming against Bonnyrigg Rose.

It would be interesting to see the stats you posted previously about Newell for other senior players at Hibs. Guys like Boyle, Hanlon etc to see if they have such huge variations in how we do when they are and aren’t playing over the same period seeing as they’d be subject to similar variables as Newell would have been.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hibs post them all the time. He had some of the best recovery stats in the league.

I’m not hugely into social media so I haven’t seen them.

[Tambo]

Ironic that the posters getting all excited about stats are the same ones who are happy to ignore Newell's numbers for tackles, interceptions and chances created - which he's consistently been one of the highest ranked midfielders in the league for the past 3 seasons.

Folk are happy to come out with nonsense like he can't defend and doesn't pass forward then blatantly ignore the objective stats showing otherwise.

Our midfield needs a big improvement and I don't think Newell is suited to all games, but he'd be one of the last in the current squad I'd move on. I've seen plenty of better midfielders at Hibs, but many more that were much worse.


Have you got any stats or links for the chances created because last season I don't even think he was in the top 10.

I'm not sure about last season but an article posted in April 2021.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/international/the-10-scottish-premiership-players-to-have-created-the-most-chances-per-90-mins-3195560?page=3

[EGL2000]

If Porteous does go and Will Fish is not his replacement no doubt the boffins in the recruitment department will identify, through the wonder of watching on a screen rather than in person, a young, inexperienced, foreigner with a penchant for being injured but with a potential re-sale value. I hope I’m wrong though.

Tbf these guys are much more experienced 100+ caps in Norwegian top flight and better age. Not saying they are being looked at though.

[Fergus52]

According to FBRef and Whoscored data*.

This season in the Premiership, Joe Newell:

- Ranks 111th for Interceptions per 90.

- Ranks 56th for Tackles per 90.

- Ranks 7th for chances created.

*Data set includes all outfield players who have played a minimum of 450 minutes in the Scottish Premiership (the equivalent of at least 5 x 90 minute matches).

The majority of chances created by Newell come from set pieces and not open play. He has registered one league assist in the previous 12 months. His only other assist in that period coming against Bonnyrigg Rose.

whoscored have him as 17th in the league for tackles per game? and our highest player for that by far.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/253/Tournaments/20/Seasons/9125/Stages/21031/PlayerStatistics/Scotland-Premiership-2022-2023

His interceptions stat isn't great but hibs posted earlier in the season that he was among the league leaders for pressures per 90 and pressures leading to a turnover per 90, so his pressing when we don't have the ball has still been effective this season.

[The Modfather]

You can come up with statistics to prove anything. 40% of all people know that.

H. Simpson

[chippy]

Yeah could see this aswell struggled when in Europe but usually looks decent enough in the Scottish games.
Swap deal ?

[EGL2000]

Swap deal ?

Personally don't think they would be interested at all. More likely to be a loan till end of season if anything.

[Unseen work]

Joe Newell is one of the players I’d get rid of. Although he doesn’t do it every week has has real quality imo. I actually think he’s been one of our best players this season.

Folk are always skating the recruitment team and how they will never get anything right or replace places, but they’d be willing to take the risk they’d replace Newell with a better player?!

Newell is the one you hear other pundits and opposition players say his quality too

Also Stephen Welsh, Celtic reportedly rejected 3 million for him in the summer. No way does he come here.

[04Sauzee]

Swap deal ?

Contracted until 2025. Celtic will end up getting more for Welsh than we do for Porteous.

[Lago]

Contracted until 2025. Celtic will end up getting more for Welsh than we do for Porteous.
He's a better player.

[Since452]

What ever happened to that Argentine defender we were apparently close to signing back in the summer? Or was he Uruguayan?

[Billy Whizz]

He's a better player.

Stats don’t back this up. Welsh will be 23 in January, and has only amassed 31 games, Ryan at 23 has played 112 games for Hibs
Ryan’s moving on so we need to look at bringing someone in, is Welsh the one? To be honest haven’t seen much of him

He’s contracted to Celtic to 2025, so we’ll be putting him in the shop window

[Gmack7]

What ever happened to that Argentine defender we were apparently close to signing back in the summer? Or was he Uruguayan?

I think he went to Italy, possibly Bologna

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think he went to Italy, possibly Bologna

Did that not fall through?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Did that not fall through?

Move to CSKA Moscow fell through before signing for Bologna.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

Stats don’t back this up. Welsh will be 23 in January, and has only amassed 31 games, Ryan at 23 has played 112 games for Hibs
Ryan’s moving on so we need to look at bringing someone in, is Welsh the one? To be honest haven’t seen much of him

He’s contracted to Celtic to 2025, so we’ll be putting him in the shop window

I don’t think Welsh is better than Porteous but comparing number of games played when one is at Hibs and one is at Celtic doesn’t really make sense.

Ryan wouldn’t have played 112 games if he was at Celtic and Welsh would have played more than 31 games if he was at Hibs.

[EGL2000]

I think he went to Italy, possibly Bologna

Yup at bologna four starts this season.

[Danderhall Hibs]

According to FBRef and Whoscored data*.

This season in the Premiership, Joe Newell:

- Ranks 111th for Interceptions per 90.

- Ranks 56th for Tackles per 90.

- Ranks 7th for chances created.

*Data set includes all outfield players who have played a minimum of 450 minutes in the Scottish Premiership (the equivalent of at least 5 x 90 minute matches).

The majority of chances created by Newell come from set pieces and not open play. He has registered one league assist in the previous 12 months. His only other assist in that period coming against Bonnyrigg Rose.

I don’t think these stats meet the requirements set in this thread as it includes folk who’ve only played 5 games so the numbers will be skewed.

[matty_f]

And even in that season we picked up significantly more points when he wasn’t in the team.

He played 32 games. Were the ones he missed 9 pointers?

[bingo70]

Late to the debate here and I’ve not got any stats to back up my opinion but I think Newell is a good player.

I also think that’s why I find his lack of goals so frustrating and hes someone I get more annoyed at than most for his lack of contribution towards the goals for column. When he does get a sight of goal, more often than not he either doesn’t get a shot away or if he does it’s a pathetic effort. He was previously a winger before he joined us so in an attacking sense i think he has the ability to offer far more than he does and that annoys me.

I wouldn’t be in a rush to move him on but his position should come under more threat from someone who can offer goals from midfield.

[matty_f]

Late to the debate here and I’ve not got any stats to back up my opinion but I think Newell is a good player.

I also think that’s why I find his lack of goals so frustrating and hes someone I get more annoyed at than most for his lack of contribution towards the goals for column. When he does get a sight of goal, more often than not he either doesn’t get a shot away or if he does it’s a pathetic effort. He was previously a winger before he joined us so in an attacking sense i think he has the ability to offer far more than he does and that annoys me.

I wouldn’t be in a rush to move him on but his position should come under more threat from someone who can offer goals from midfield.

I agree with that, we shouldn't have anyone who we're not looking to find a better option for.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He played 32 games. Were the ones he missed 9 pointers?

Ok, PPG.

I’m sure you really didn’t need that explained to you seeing as PPG is the stat we’ve been talking about this whole time but here we are somehow having to clear it up for you.

[matty_f]

Ok, PPG.

I’m sure you really didn’t need that explained to you seeing as PPG is the stat we’ve been talking about this whole time but here we are somehow having to clear it up for you.

But his missed games that season would be too low to get a useable PPG?

[Paulie Walnuts]

But his missed games that season would be too low to get a useable PPG?

And our results in his missed games over a 120 or so game period tell the story more than enough.

Still though, you keep trying to convince yourself that as he’s not the only variable it means absolutely nothing.

[matty_f]

And our results in his missed games over a 120 or so game period tell the story more than enough.

Still though, you keep trying to convince yourself that as he’s not the only variable it means absolutely nothing.

I don't need to convince myself, I understand it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't need to convince myself, I understand it.

Celtic won the league last season and Dundee got relegated. Who was the better team though? Far too many variables to say. Teams played different players against each team, each team caught other teams with certain players injured, different weather conditions etc.

The fact Celtic won the league obviously now means nothing, because, variables.

A striker scores 50 goals in a season and another striker scored 3. Who was better? We’ve no way of saying, variables will make those stats worthless.

And to think near enough every football fan thought these things actually meant something when all along we should have realised they don’t because of the variables. At least you have always understood it though.

[matty_f]

Celtic won the league last season and Dundee got relegated. Who was the better team though? Far too many variables to say. Teams played different players against each team, each team caught other teams with certain players injured, different weather conditions etc.

The fact Celtic won the league obviously now means nothing, because, variables.

A striker scores 50 goals in a season and another striker scored 3. Who was better? We’ve no way of saying, variables will make those stats worthless.

And to think near enough every football fan thought these things actually meant something when all along we should have realised they don’t because of the variables. At least you have always understood it though.

Like I said, I understand it.

If that's your comparison, I'll leave it there.

[Smartie]

Late to the debate here and I’ve not got any stats to back up my opinion but I think Newell is a good player.

I also think that’s why I find his lack of goals so frustrating and hes someone I get more annoyed at than most for his lack of contribution towards the goals for column. When he does get a sight of goal, more often than not he either doesn’t get a shot away or if he does it’s a pathetic effort. He was previously a winger before he joined us so in an attacking sense i think he has the ability to offer far more than he does and that annoys me.

I wouldn’t be in a rush to move him on but his position should come under more threat from someone who can offer goals from midfield.

I'd agree with this. He actually frustrates the life of me when he gets a sight of goal because technically I think he's capable of much better than he's shown for us. By that I mean that he's clearly a technically capable player, there's a highlight reel of decent goals for his previous clubs on youtube iirc and his "losing the heid and sclaff" efforts from the edge of the box for us happen far too often.

I'd maybe defend him on the assist front though. If we took Newell out the team and put almost anyone else in his place I don't think we'd see them get many more assists. Newell's vision and weight of pass are more than acceptable, he's played a few in the build ups to good goals this season and I don't think we'd see anyone get many more than him. Our problem on that front is that we don't really seem to have great movement up front or the possibility to be playing through balls. If that changed, I think you'd see a lot more from Newell on the assist front.

His corners drive me mad, mainly because i think he's capable of playing superb, whipped crosses but often opts for the wafty, floaty pish that is easy stuff for goalkeepers and defenders to deal with, which I can never get my head around.

I like him as a player and he certainly wouldn't be the first I'd be moving on but if he was the only one attracting interest and his move meant we could address the greater problem up front then I'd listen to offers.

[Since452]

I think Newell is a much better player than he thinks he is. It's almost like there's a lack of confidence about his play sometimes. I don't think he takes as many shots or imposes himself as much as he could. I think he's a very talented player but almost like he plays within himself. That's the impression i get anyway.

[J-C]

Jeez, are we still all yapping on about bloody Newell, pages and pages of yes he's good, no he isn't, so boring.

[BILLYHIBS]

Jeez, are we still all yapping on about bloody Newell, pages and pages of yes he's good, no he isn't, so boring.
:wink:

Exhausting

He’s just not very good

Inconsistent

[OldEast]

Jeez, are we still all yapping on about bloody Newell, pages and pages of yes he's good, no he isn't, so boring.

It's awful isn't it? Loads of threads now descend into petty bickering. I tell myself not to comment and move on but doesn't leave much to be honest.