Ukraine

[Jones28]

Iran and Serbia both say they do not recognise the annexation of by Russia.

I wonder what the Iranians think the drones they’re giving Russia are for?

[Ozyhibby]

Iran and Serbia both say they do not recognise the annexation of by Russia.

I wonder what the Iranians think the drones they’re giving Russia are for?

Iran are getting fighter planes in return.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Would be huge. Sanna Marin just also announced a 440 million euro package, she's my current favourite politician by far. The US announced a massive $2.4 billion package


michaelh992

The Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Wopke Hoekstra said the country is open to providing F-16s to #Ukraine️

He said if Kyiv was to make the request it would be considered with an "open mind

[Stairway 2 7]

@nexta_tv
·
❗️ #German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said that during the meeting in Ramstein they failed to agree on the transfer of Leopard tanks to #Ukraine.

He noted that a decision would be made in the near future and it would depend on Chancellor Olaf Scholz

[Glory Lurker]

Whit's the Germany daein, Tam?

[Stairway 2 7]

Whit's the Germany daein, Tam?

Not sure but its not going down well with Ukranians. I'm pretty sure they will eventually ok the release of at least other nations leopards, especially since Poland and Lithuania have said they will send regardless sooner or later.

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1616500279599370260
@visegrad24
Lithuanian protesters gathering in front of the German Embassy in Vilnius.

They think that Scholz is “Russia’s most effective anti-tank weapon

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1616499757769277442
Large crowd

More and more Ukrainians refugees and Germans gathering in front of Scholz’s office in Berlin right now, chanting:

“Free the Leopards now!

[Hibrandenburg]

Not sure but its not going down well with Ukranians. I'm pretty sure they will eventually ok the release of at least other nations leopards, especially since Poland and Lithuania have said they will send regardless sooner or later.

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1616500279599370260
@visegrad24
Lithuanian protesters gathering in front of the German Embassy in Vilnius.

They think that Scholz is “Russia’s most effective anti-tank weapon

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1616499757769277442
Large crowd

More and more Ukrainians refugees and Germans gathering in front of Scholz’s office in Berlin right now, chanting:

“Free the Leopards now!

There's also another protest around the corner demanding that no tanks get sent to Ukraine.

[Ozyhibby]

Think the poles are sending the tanks anyway now. [emoji106]


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[Glory Lurker]

There's also another protest around the corner demanding that no tanks get sent to Ukraine.

Enjoying the luxury of dissent that their equivalents in Russia can only dream of.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's also another protest around the corner demanding that no tanks get sent to Ukraine.

Hope the Ukrainian refugees down walk round the corner and see it, it would be demoralising. I think Germany will approve anyway, they won't want to try and sanction Poland for sending them

[Hibrandenburg]

Hope the Ukrainian refugees down walk round the corner and see it, it would be demoralising. I think Germany will approve anyway, they won't want to try and sanction Poland for sending them

I think the psychological reasoning behind the German decision making is simple, they want to, it's just every instinct tells them it's wrong, but they are just hoping for the opportunity to say we have no choice but to do it.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jimmysecuk/status/1617899268932763650?s=46&t=sWz1B0fGmoJaQ0x2Txc_qA
Big news if true.


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[Hibrandenburg]

https://twitter.com/jimmysecuk/status/1617899268932763650?s=46&t=sWz1B0fGmoJaQ0x2Txc_qA
Big news if true.


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We've got the Munich Security Conference coming up soon, all the big boys will be there and I'm guessing there'll be more pledges of aid getting aired there for a maximum show of unity effect.

[Bridge hibs]

There was something on one of my feeds about the mad mans threats about nuclear if losing conventional war etc. someone just take the **** out please 🤬

[greenlex]

Germany agrees to send the tanks.

[Ozyhibby]

Germany agrees to send the tanks.

Good. Next up is the aeroplanes.[emoji106][emoji3]


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[StevieC]

Germany agrees to send the tanks.

I’m in Ukraine just now and that was the big talking point of the day. I’m not sure exactly how much difference it will make on the battlefield, but it’s definitely lifted morale (which will always make a difference on the battlefield).

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/ehunterchristie/status/1617939943392935936?s=46&t=o1zdZfEGe02kyQ8prphVMw

Swiss drop objections to arms exports to Ukraine. Another piece of great news for Ukraine.


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[Ozyhibby]

I’m in Ukraine just now and that was the big talking point of the day. I’m not sure exactly how much difference it will make on the battlefield, but it’s definitely lifted morale (which will always make a difference on the battlefield).

I’m no military expert but from articles I’ve been reading, they think it will make a massive difference this spring/summer.


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[StevieC]

I’m no military expert but from articles I’ve been reading, they think it will make a massive difference this spring/summer.

Talk in Dnipro today is of a possible Russian offensive on Zaporozhia as temperatures drop and ground becomes frozen, apparently picked up on chatter by SBO. Dnipro only 50 miles from Zaporozhia so concern in the city about it.

[StevieC]

The other thing getting talked about here is that the 25th is Zelensky’s birthday, and they are expecting lots of unwanted “gifts” from Russia to be flying overhead shortly. 😬

[Stairway 2 7]

Sweden have announced 10-12 Stridsvagn tanks will be sent.

The US is going to be sending 30-50 Abrahams tanks


Uk are sending 14 Challenger 2 tanks.

Poland didn't wait for the German ok for sending tanks and started training Ukrainian soldiers on Monday, they are initially sending 14 leopards

Germany sending 14 leopards, Norway 8, Holland 18, Denmark 8

Finland, Canada, Portugal, Spain will be sending but no amount announced.

Should be over 150 initially and Morocco has sent 20 older t72

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/up-to-50-m1-abrams-tanks-could-be-headed-to-ukraine-reports

Huge news for Ukraine, next conversation will be fighter jets

[Stairway 2 7]

The other thing getting talked about here is that the 25th is Zelensky’s birthday, and they are expecting lots of unwanted “gifts” from Russia to be flying overhead shortly. 😬

Stay safe Slava Ukraini

[greenginger]

Sweden have announced 10-12 Stridsvagn tanks will be sent.

The US is going to be sending 30-50 Abrahams tanks


Uk are sending 14 Challenger 2 tanks.

Poland didn't wait for the German ok for sending tanks and started training Ukrainian soldiers on Monday, they are initially sending 14 leopards

Germany sending 14 leopards, Norway 8, Holland 18, Denmark 8

Finland, Canada, Portugal, Spain will be sending but no amount announced.

Should be over 150 initially and Morocco has sent 20 older t72

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/up-to-50-m1-abrams-tanks-could-be-headed-to-ukraine-reports

Huge news for Ukraine, next conversation will be fighter jets


Russian tanks seemed pretty vulnerable to small , hand held , weapons like Nlaws etc.

Does Russia have similar anti tank stuff or are these tanks better armoured or will they be used in different situations to the carnage that wiped out a huge chunk of the Russian tank divisions earlier in the war.

[Jones28]

Russian tanks seemed pretty vulnerable to small , hand held , weapons like Nlaws etc.

Does Russia have similar anti tank stuff or are these tanks better armoured or will they be used in different situations to the carnage that wiped out a huge chunk of the Russian tank divisions earlier in the war.

The newer Russian tanks are T90's and are much tougher than the older models.

But they should be fair game for the modern tanks being sent across.

From what I've read Russia don't have NLaw or Javellins etc.

[LunasBoots]

The other thing getting talked about here is that the 25th is Zelensky’s birthday, and they are expecting lots of unwanted “gifts” from Russia to be flying overhead shortly. 😬

Stay safe.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sweden have announced 10-12 Stridsvagn tanks will be sent.

The US is going to be sending 30-50 Abrahams tanks


Uk are sending 14 Challenger 2 tanks.

Poland didn't wait for the German ok for sending tanks and started training Ukrainian soldiers on Monday, they are initially sending 14 leopards

Germany sending 14 leopards, Norway 8, Holland 18, Denmark 8

Finland, Canada, Portugal, Spain will be sending but no amount announced.

Should be over 150 initially and Morocco has sent 20 older t72

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/up-to-50-m1-abrams-tanks-could-be-headed-to-ukraine-reports

Huge news for Ukraine, next conversation will be fighter jets

Political win for Scholz who wanted to send tanks but didn't want to just have German made battle tanks fighting the Russians. It won't happen but I'd like to see these tanks used to go on the offensive and not only push the Russians out of Ukraine but further deep into Russian territory, only then could negotiations take place on Ukrainian terms.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russian tanks seemed pretty vulnerable to small , hand held , weapons like Nlaws etc.

Does Russia have similar anti tank stuff or are these tanks better armoured or will they be used in different situations to the carnage that wiped out a huge chunk of the Russian tank divisions earlier in the war.

From what I've read Russia doesn’t have a fraction of anti tank missles. They are are also far better than the Russian tanks in terms of communication radar and night vision. They shouldn't be used in the same way they will be used combined with Bradley's for example and infantry.

Allies seem to give Ukraine a few pieces like the HIMARS, see if they use them safely and then send more.

Tanks are needed to break through lines, they are clearly looking for a Ukraine offensive in spring
https://ecfr.eu/article/the-leopard-plan-how-european-tanks-can-help-ukraine-take-back-its-territory/

[Lendo]

Sweden have announced 10-12 Stridsvagn tanks will be sent.

The US is going to be sending 30-50 Abrahams tanks


Uk are sending 14 Challenger 2 tanks.

Poland didn't wait for the German ok for sending tanks and started training Ukrainian soldiers on Monday, they are initially sending 14 leopards

Germany sending 14 leopards, Norway 8, Holland 18, Denmark 8

Finland, Canada, Portugal, Spain will be sending but no amount announced.

Should be over 150 initially and Morocco has sent 20 older t72

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/up-to-50-m1-abrams-tanks-could-be-headed-to-ukraine-reports

Huge news for Ukraine, next conversation will be fighter jets

Now for F-15 Strike Eagles and F16s

[Stairway 2 7]

Now for F-15 Strike Eagles and F16s

Fingers crossed

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/foreign-office-with-michael-weiss/id1532707308?i=1000596116316

Great listen on how we got here.


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[hibby rae]

The Abrams could be a bit of a logistical nightmare for Ukraine, it uses a lot of fuel on account of it having essentially having a jet engine.

Leopards in general will be far more useful, more of them available, maintenance facilities exist nearby, and still a superior tank than pretty much anything in the Russian arsenal.

Also, having so many different types of tank will also be difficult logistically.

[Stairway 2 7]

Amazing story of two Russians who escaped to America in a small boat, but also highlights how America treats immigrants

http://archive.today/res28

[Ozyhibby]

The Abrams could be a bit of a logistical nightmare for Ukraine, it uses a lot of fuel on account of it having essentially having a jet engine.

Leopards in general will be far more useful, more of them available, maintenance facilities exist nearby, and still a superior tank than pretty much anything in the Russian arsenal.

Also, having so many different types of tank will also be difficult logistically.

I wonder if they will just park the Abrams north of Kyiv in case of another attack from Belurus? Unlikely to be needed but handy in unlocking the leopards.


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[hibby rae]

I wonder if they will just park the Abrams north of Kyiv in case of another attack from Belurus? Unlikely to be needed but handy in unlocking the leopards.


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It might make sense to keep them in reserve like that, or sent to a smaller independent unit so to keep the logistics running as smoothly as possible, but I doubt you'll see them mixed in other units.

In NW Europe in 44/45 the British usually had a mix of Cromwells and Shermans in their armoured divisions, but they wouldn't be mixed together at smaller unit levels.

[Lendo]

I wonder if they will just park the Abrams north of Kyiv in case of another attack from Belurus? Unlikely to be needed but handy in unlocking the leopards.


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That was my thought. Use them a deterrent to Belarus in the north and use the Leopard’s on the front line in the south

[Stairway 2 7]

Biden announces 31 tanks, probably just as big news. The US will increase the production of artillery shells for Ukraine six times

The production of 155-millimeter shells in the US, will grow to 90,000 per month.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thread on the difference between modern tanks and IFVs and Russian tanks. It largely about improved optics. If you can spot your rival tank further away and quicker, then there is only one winner

https://mobile.twitter.com/GJStathakis/status/1618454905500618752

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/64409618

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/64409618

Father and son both weirdo's it appears then

[Bristolhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/64409618

His Dad is 100% crazy *******. Clearly rubs off on his son.

Serbs have a long tradition of being the poodle of Russia (think WW1 outbreak), so not a surprise. There’s also a large Serb community in Australia.

Serbian politics is almost as loathsome as it can get. That said, I have been there and Croatia and did some reading on the history. And red in context you can sort of see some of their view. The bastion as they see themselves a crossroads between the Muslim and Christian world. The defender of the orthodox fait against the Catholics (Croats). Croats who BTW during WW2 cosied up to the Nazis and committed horrific barbarism against the Serbs.

It really is a messed up part of the world. Not to mention the Serbian perpetuated genocide of Bosnian Muslims in the 90s.

J

[LunasBoots]

Think the West need to hurry up with those tanks, Putun looks desperate, missiles striking Kyiv today, I imagine another more will be coming that way.

[Stairway 2 7]

Think the West need to hurry up with those tanks, Putun looks desperate, missiles striking Kyiv today, I imagine another more will be coming that way.

They come about every 2 weeks and have done for 6 months. 86% shot down which seems to be the average now. They have no military value and are purely done to put fear into civilians

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting article on how countries helped twist German arms on releasing tanks

https://news.yahoo.com/us-germany-tanks-ukraine-russia-abrams-leopards-015218778.html

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty sad. A report on some great work finding some names of those prisoners that signed up and fought and died for Wagner.

Some will have no sympathy shown like a man who drunkenly slit his girlfriends throat, or a man who killed and burnt a man.

But others are much more depressing. A man heavily in debt stole £80 worth of tools. Or a boy who was jailed for drug offences, he kept his imprisonment secret from his family. His sister only found out he had been imprisoned and then killed in war when reuters contacted her

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-russia-graves-wagner/

[He's here!]

Father and son both weirdo's it appears then

Claiming he was 'just mingling with my son's fans'.

As you say, a pair of bellends.

[Stairway 2 7]

The thread if you want to know the difference tanks make, also the huge differences from modern tanks to the Russian tanks

https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1619058078158319618

[cabbageandribs1875]

Erdogan at it again Erdogan says Turkey may block Sweden's Nato membership bid - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64446439)

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has suggested that Ankara may agree to Finland joining Nato, but not Sweden.

He criticised Sweden's refusal to extradite dozens of people allegedly tied to Kurdish militant groups and other critics of his government.


"If you absolutely want to join Nato, you will return these terrorists to us," said Mr Erdogan.


His comments come days after Turkey suspended talks to accept the two Nordic nations as members.


"We gave Sweden a list of 120 persons and told them to extradite those terrorists in their country," said Mr Erdogan. "If you don't extradite them, then sorry about that."


p@ss off Erdogan

[Rumble de Thump]

Turkey should have been booted out of NATO when it invaded Cyprus. It's now almost 50 years that Turkey has been illegally occupying northern Cyprus.

[Ozyhibby]

Sweden will stick to its guns I hope. With Finland joining then Russia has no way to attack Sweden anyway. Turkey can be dealt with in time.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230130/3b0408f9ffa4c5aace1e831498a4af2b.jpg
While these claims deserve to be mocked, I still hope that the Russians can try make these claims as part of a mission accomplished withdrawal from Ukraine.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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[Stairway 2 7]

The day after the US say well over 100k Russian dead. Brutal, Ukrainian numbers will be huge also

@JimPickard
Financial Times
British cabinet was briefed today that 188,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or injured during the Ukraine conflict

- that is 10 times more than the casualties in Afghanistan (15,000) during the entire 1980s

[Ozyhibby]

The day after the US say well over 100k Russian dead. Brutal, Ukrainian numbers will be huge also

@JimPickard
Financial Times
British cabinet was briefed today that 188,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or injured during the Ukraine conflict

- that is 10 times more than the casualties in Afghanistan (15,000) during the entire 1980s

I read last night that Russians are just coming in waves to their death in Bakhmut. It doesn’t seem to matter to the Russians how many die.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I read last night that Russians are just coming in waves to their death in Bakhmut. It doesn’t seem to matter to the Russians how many die.


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I read 20,000 dead in Bakhmut and 80% of the prisoners wagner recruited now estimated to have died. Reports from prisons that they are finding it difficult to recruit now, most of the life without parole have already signed up.

They will be forced to mobilise from the public and that won't be popular. What will a generation of men dying or being disabled do to Russia in the years to come

[Jones28]

Anyone with Spotify (or if not you can download the app and it takes seconds to sign up) I'd urge you to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast episode number 1921 with Peter Zeihan. Zeihan is a global analyst and its a quite a startling/terrifying listen. Lots of Ukraine content but also lots about China and Mexico.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1620754665762869249?s=46&t=qAaJAcpxPTNZzCXVTkiO4A

Interesting post from a Russian on Ukrainian military tactics.


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[Smartie]

Anyone with Spotify (or if not you can download the app and it takes seconds to sign up) I'd urge you to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast episode number 1921 with Peter Zeihan. Zeihan is a global analyst and its a quite a startling/terrifying listen. Lots of Ukraine content but also lots about China and Mexico.

I listened to this yesterday of the back of this recommendation.

Really interesting.

I didn't realise China had such demographic problems. I thought they were in the opposite situation - improving technology, booming population and on an upwards trajectory.

As they discussed the various problems I couldn't help but wonder how these issues will affect Scotland (fuel, food, demographics etc).

We really do have quite a couple of decades ahead of us.

[Stairway 2 7]

I listened to this yesterday of the back of this recommendation.

Really interesting.

I didn't realise China had such demographic problems. I thought they were in the opposite situation - improving technology, booming population and on an upwards trajectory.

As they discussed the various problems I couldn't help but wonder how these issues will affect Scotland (fuel, food, demographics etc).

We really do have quite a couple of decades ahead of us.

China's population is expected to go from 1.4 billion to 700 million by 2100. Millions of empty homes. The one child policy coming back to bite. India will go to most populous country but it will decline from 1.3 billion to 1.1 . Nigeria will go second most populous from 240 million to 800 million.

To jump back to this thread, Russia will go from 146 million to 100. Uk expected to go from 66 million to 80 becoming the biggest population in Europe overtaking Germany which will fall.

We'll probably destroy the planet by then but I'll be deed anyway regardless

[cabbageandribs1875]

quite informative video of how important having Finland as part of Nato is and how the polls of the population have changed much more to wanting in Nato


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si9Phc9ArpU

[cabbageandribs1875]

Russia apparently amassing themselves 500,000 troops Ukraine news – live: Putin amassing 500,000 troops for major new offensive, says minister (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-news-live-putin-amassing-500-000-troops-for-major-new-offensive-says-minister/ar-AA16Zm0w?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5d14aed00af34aa198ffce9dd049e690) i've thought for months now i just cant see Ukraine getting Crimea back, and possibly losing more as well, Putin ain't gonna stop

[Bridge hibs]

Russia apparently amassing themselves 500,000 troops Ukraine news – live: Putin amassing 500,000 troops for major new offensive, says minister (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-news-live-putin-amassing-500-000-troops-for-major-new-offensive-says-minister/ar-AA16Zm0w?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5d14aed00af34aa198ffce9dd049e690) i've thought for months now i just cant see Ukraine getting Crimea back, and possibly losing more as well, Putin ain't gonna stop

500,000 wow he really is ****ing going for it 😵

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia apparently amassing themselves 500,000 troops Ukraine news – live: Putin amassing 500,000 troops for major new offensive, says minister (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-news-live-putin-amassing-500-000-troops-for-major-new-offensive-says-minister/ar-AA16Zm0w?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5d14aed00af34aa198ffce9dd049e690) i've thought for months now i just cant see Ukraine getting Crimea back, and possibly losing more as well, Putin ain't gonna stop

They have been deployed since September. Over 100,000 dead, dead to permanently injured is usually 1/3. Most are gone, they will need another mobilisation if they want to continue.

That won't be popular. The public didn't care when prisoners or minorities died. He will soon have to go for the youth of Moscow and St Petersburg, that will cause anger.

[Ozyhibby]

Russia apparently amassing themselves 500,000 troops Ukraine news – live: Putin amassing 500,000 troops for major new offensive, says minister (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-news-live-putin-amassing-500-000-troops-for-major-new-offensive-says-minister/ar-AA16Zm0w?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5d14aed00af34aa198ffce9dd049e690) i've thought for months now i just cant see Ukraine getting Crimea back, and possibly losing more as well, Putin ain't gonna stop

They are mostly already there and dying in their thousands every week. And they haven’t moved the map at all in the last 4 months.
The country with the best equipment will win this war.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/chriso_wiki/status/1621095382771175426?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ

Horrific thread on how the Russians are just running to their deaths.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1594279065544187904?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ

Video of Russian bodies abandoned.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230202/01852aaa1926771814ca0753b7125dad.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1611733971246661633?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ

This is even worse.


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[Jones28]

https://twitter.com/chriso_wiki/status/1621095382771175426?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ

Horrific thread on how the Russians are just running to their deaths.


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There hasn’t been a war in history won by russia in which they didn’t lose over half a million men.

The podcast I linked above 👆

[Ozyhibby]

There hasn’t been a war in history won by russia in which they didn’t lose over half a million men.

The podcast I linked above [emoji115]

And they would not have won in WW2 without the arms that the Americans provided them with.


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[BS44]

Ukrainian troops getting a six year old girl out of danger and returning her to her mammy

https://twitter.com/SlavaUk30722777/status/1621069794387832834

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ukrainian troops getting a six year old girl out of danger and returning her to her mammy

https://twitter.com/SlavaUk30722777/status/1621069794387832834

Puts things into perspective once again. 😢

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/credit-suisse-banked-abramovich-fortune-held-in-secret-offshore-companies

Banking industry helping Abramovich hide his assets and dodge sanctions.


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[Kato]

https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/credit-suisse-banked-abramovich-fortune-held-in-secret-offshore-companies

Banking industry helping Abramovich hide his assets and dodge sanctions.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot much news on who and who hasn't been sanctioned, or had assets seized and what the accounting on that is from this country.

I wonder what it is that keeps The City of London(grad) and the Conservative (friends of russia) Party so taciturn? [emoji848]

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[judas]

Another perspective.

In this one, Ukraine have lost we are at risk:

https://youtu.be/XdshHJW3PMU

[Ozyhibby]

Haven’t watched it but is that George Galloway? I assume he’s telling us that Ukraine should just give up a large part of their country in order to get peace with Putin?
I can’t remember but how much of Iraq did he say Sadam Hussain should hand over to the American in order to secure peace back in 2003?
Disgusting individual.


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[Jones28]

The battle for bakhmut sounds like it’s not going ukraines/our way.

[BS44]

Another perspective.

In this one, Ukraine have lost we are at risk:

https://youtu.be/XdshHJW3PMU

If the colonel is correct then that is bleak, Kiev partitioned isn't what I was expecting to hear

[judas]

If the colonel is correct then that is bleak, Kiev partitioned isn't what I was expecting to hear

I think he made a mistake with Kiev and meant eastern Ukraine.

Actually the colonel is no leading strategist as far as I am aware.

I believe he holds some very controversial and extreme views on a number of subjects. He was a helicopter pilot in the Vietnam war.

I think him and Galloway are a good match.

One thing he did emphasise, is that Russia are now very well
dug in. He also brings back the spectre of nuclear war.

[Smartie]

Is this not just Kremlin propaganda from Kremlin propagandists?

[Jones28]

Again I’m going back to the podcast I linked earlier on the thread - I’ve listened to it 3 or 4 times over because there’s so much to digest in it.

Listened again in the gym last night and the point was made about the real outcome of the war will be determined after the mud season (may or so), because Ukraine will have access and training on their shiny new toys and Russias next mobilisation will be complete.

It really is going to be men vs machines.

It also addresses nuclear war, and Zeihan makes the point that he thinks the only way nukes will be used is if Ukraine wins in Ukraine and pushes in to Russia. He also says America know where Putin is, and if he does push the button they’ll drop a nuke through his letter box.

I can’t understand the hesitation in sending as much kit as Ukraine needs. They need to win.

[Jones28]

Haven’t watched it but is that George Galloway? I assume he’s telling us that Ukraine should just give up a large part of their country in order to get peace with Putin?
I can’t remember but how much of Iraq did he say Sadam Hussain should hand over to the American in order to secure peace back in 2003?
Disgusting individual.


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He’s a creepy ****** and his voice should carry about as much weight as Corbyns nutter brother.

[Jones28]

Reports from Bakhmut are not good. Videos are terrifying.

[superfurryhibby]

I've drifted away from the Ukraine war, but it's clear that reports of the Russians demise on here were massively exaggerated.

If the war goes on?

[Ozyhibby]

I've drifted away from the Ukraine war, but it's clear that reports of the Russians demise on here were massively exaggerated.

If the war goes on?

I haven’t seen anything to change my opinion that Ukraine will win this war.


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[Jones28]

I've drifted away from the Ukraine war, but it's clear that reports of the Russians demise on here were massively exaggerated.

If the war goes on?

Things were slightly exaggerated because of the way things were playing out. Now that Russia have proper logistics in place, mainly due to being much more compact, they can operate. That and throwing literally thousands of bodies in the way of the Ukrainian guns.

[superfurryhibby]

Things were slightly exaggerated because of the way things were playing out. Now that Russia have proper logistics in place, mainly due to being much more compact, they can operate. That and throwing literally thousands of bodies in the way of the Ukrainian guns.

For all the incompetence of their previous strategy, it seemed pretty inevitable that the Russians would bring their huge resources and manpower to bear eventually.

[Rumble de Thump]

For all the incompetence of their previous strategy, it seemed pretty inevitable that the Russians would bring their huge resources and manpower to bear eventually.

Russia has more cannon fodder that it can call upon. Ukraine has better strategy, better tactics, better equipment, better weapons, better support and better motivation. Russia never stood a chance of winning this war. Exactly how and when it will end remains to be seen but it's certainly not going to end well for Russia.

[Stairway 2 7]

Everything I've read said there will be stalemate over winter then a push in spring. That's happened. Bakhmut has been close to falling since September, ts surprising its not yet. At what cost though 20,000 dead 3 times that disabled some have said, for what though a small town. Russia doesn't have unlimited men or military hardware. If the allies keep delivering weapons and training soldiers Ukraine will eventually win back land.

Phillips OBriens weekly updates are great for what is going on. One thing for sure is that it's going to be horrific. Russia are going to throw lives at it before the western heavy weapons come. This isn't a movie its going on for a long time, probably years

https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-14?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa

[Jones28]

Everything I've read said there will be stalemate over winter then a push in spring. That's happened. Bakhmut has been close to falling since September, ts surprising its not yet. At what cost though 20,000 dead 3 times that disabled some have said, for what though a small town. Russia doesn't have unlimited men or military hardware. If the allies keep delivering weapons and training soldiers Ukraine will eventually win back land.

Phillips OBriens weekly updates are great for what is going on. One thing for sure is that it's going to be horrific. Russia are going to throw lives at it before the western heavy weapons come. This isn't a movie its going on for a long time, probably years

https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-14?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share&r=1tgexa

Is Bakhmut not an important rail logistics hub?

[Ozyhibby]

Is Bakhmut not an important rail logistics hub?

No. It’s rubble now anyway. Nobody seems sure why they are fighting so hard for Bakhmut to be honest. However, defence is easier than attack so degrading Russia’s fighting force there makes it worth fighting hard for.
The map has hardly moved at all in last three months but a lot of Russians have died while not moving that map.


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[Bridge hibs]

Russia has more cannon fodder that it can call upon. Ukraine has better strategy, better tactics, better equipment, better weapons, better support and better motivation. Russia never stood a chance of winning this war. Exactly how and when it will end remains to be seen but it's certainly not going to end well for Russia.As long as that nutter Putin is alive I wont rest, ****ing dangerous cretin

I thought I read on one of Ozys posts earlier on this thread, on a tweet that Zelensky is meeting Biden in Poland to discuss a 10 point peace deal, peace probably not the correct word as I cant remember. It gave me a bit of hope but then just remembered, Putin doesnt want peace

[Stairway 2 7]

This was Bakhmut a month ago. 10,000 shells a day since then, it is dust. Can't see many people living in a lot of these contested areas for decades.

https://mobile.twitter.com/markomihkelson/status/1612752047157248001

[makaveli1875]

As long as that nutter Putin is alive I wont rest, ****ing dangerous cretin

I thought I read on one of Ozys posts earlier on this thread, on a tweet that Zelensky is meeting Biden in Poland to discuss a 10 point peace deal, peace probably not the correct word as I cant remember. It gave me a bit of hope but then just remembered, Putin doesnt want peace

Last sentence is too true . Putin wants ukraine and he doesn't care how many people have to die for him to get his way

[BS44]

Mossad estimate nearly twice as many Ukrainian casualties in the field compared to Russians

[Stairway 2 7]

Mossad estimate nearly twice as many Ukrainian casualties in the field compared to Russians

No it was Elon Musk making a fool of himself again and getting fact checked by his own website again. A Russian troll account posted nonsense like more Ukraine dead, plus thousands of nato had died helping Ukraine. Musk replied saying what a shocking waste of life.

His own website fact checked him, he then retracted. He constantly doesn't check his sources nowadays helping spread right wing information too often

Here's the tweet
https://mobile.twitter.com/runews/status/1622170096675299329

[Jones28]

Mossad estimate nearly twice as many Ukrainian casualties in the field compared to Russians

Funny that literally every single other source says it’s worse than the opposite for Russia.

Most sources say it’s 1 Ukrainian - for 3/4 Russians.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230207/6c33a1843ba7c8a70426a3a93934ec54.jpg

Huge Russian losses claimed for yesterday.[emoji102]


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230207/6c33a1843ba7c8a70426a3a93934ec54.jpg

Huge Russian losses claimed for yesterday.[emoji102]


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Apparently most at vuhledar which was apparently a slaughter yesterday, brutal stuff. Here is 3 tanks yesterday being destroyed by German anti tank mines

https://mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1622633889314250752

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1622932251460747265?s=46&t=MGkNiooIbnct2jGlIXebQA


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/07/ukraine-releases-video-appearing-to-show-russian-troops-beating-own-wounded-officer
[emoji51]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1622975447901388800?s=46&t=MGkNiooIbnct2jGlIXebQA

Preparations for the civil war are beginning. Very dangerous time for the world.


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[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1622975447901388800?s=46&t=MGkNiooIbnct2jGlIXebQA

Preparations for the civil war are beginning. Very dangerous time for the world.


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Interesting point by someone on that thread - how private can it be when Gazprom is pretty much a state company?

[Just Alf]

How it was expected to play out?

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1619990400508510208?t=_i1nHHR2Xxkjnp1oewQm5w&s=19

[Ozyhibby]

Apparently most at vuhledar which was apparently a slaughter yesterday, brutal stuff. Here is 3 tanks yesterday being destroyed by German anti tank mines

https://mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1622633889314250752

https://twitter.com/tatarigami_ua/status/1623229842371104769?s=46&t=AScHU2v74bIR3LSMiMRh_A


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[Stairway 2 7]

Zelensky is having a surprise visit to the UK today. It will announced as well as 10,000 soldiers trained pre war 10,000 have now been trained post. That will now be increased to 20,000 per year in the uk

The big announcement will be the uk are going to this week start training Ukrainian pilots on modern NATO jets

[Jones28]

Bakhmut still in Ukranian hands. Though seems sheer weight of numbers means it will go to Russia eventually.

The thing about this is that Bakhmut will be a purely symbolic "victory" for Russia, they can't translate losses of 1000 or so soldiers a day to every settlement.

[Stairway 2 7]

Zelensky addressing parliament now

https://mobile.twitter.com/UKParliament/status/1623305974671896576

@UKParliament
The President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy
@ZelenskyyUa
, is addressing both Houses of Parliament in Westminster Hall.

Watch live

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Zelensky addressing parliament now

https://mobile.twitter.com/UKParliament/status/1623305974671896576

@UKParliament
The President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy
@ZelenskyyUa
, is addressing both Houses of Parliament in Westminster Hall.

Watch live

Thank you for the tea and thanks, in advance, for the planes.

[hibsbollah]

I see Zelenskyy presented Lindsay Hoyle with a helmet. How appropriate.

[Stairway 2 7]

I see Zelenskyy presented Lindsay Hoyle with a helmet. How appropriate.

I thought Hoyle might not shut up, he seems to love the limelight

[hibsbollah]

I thought Hoyle might not shut up, he seems to love the limelight

It was like Infantino with Messi at the World Cup presentation in November, some folks like bathing in reflected glory.

[Col2]

When does it end? I can’t help think that this country is falling over itself (for politically charged motives) to ensure Ukraine gets endless resources for a war they can’t win.

At some point a compromise needs to be found. The Ukrainian president will not compromise and neither will Putin. We seem to be months away from sending pilots and soldiers the way we are going.

And when Putin fires off a tactical nuke to a near by island as has been suggested is it then we start to realise we should have sought a peace compromise?

It also doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to find out about the cough cough chequered history of the Ukrainian president. The CIA refused entry to several of his ‘security’ due to some horrendous background checks on recent visit to US.

[Ozyhibby]

When does it end? I can’t help think that this country is falling over itself (for politically charged motives) to ensure Ukraine gets endless resources for a war they can’t win.

At some point a compromise needs to be found. The Ukrainian president will not compromise and neither will Putin. We seem to be months away from sending pilots and soldiers the way we are going.

And when Putin fires off a tactical nuke to a near by island as has been suggested is it then we start to realise we should have sought a peace compromise?

It also doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to find out about the cough cough chequered history of the Ukrainian president. The CIA refused entry to several of his ‘security’ due to some horrendous background checks on recent visit to US.

Hard to know where to start?
How much of Scotland would you be willing to give up if we were invaded just for some peace?


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[Stairway 2 7]

When does it end? I can’t help think that this country is falling over itself (for politically charged motives) to ensure Ukraine gets endless resources for a war they can’t win.

At some point a compromise needs to be found. The Ukrainian president will not compromise and neither will Putin. We seem to be months away from sending pilots and soldiers the way we are going.

And when Putin fires off a tactical nuke to a near by island as has been suggested is it then we start to realise we should have sought a peace compromise?

It also doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to find out about the cough cough chequered history of the Ukrainian president. The CIA refused entry to several of his ‘security’ due to some horrendous background checks on recent visit to US.

That's a who's who of Russian lines out of George Galloways twitter. Your opinion is welcome but differs from mine

I don't believe the uk's cross party support across uk/scotland is politically motivated, I think it's due to seeing the flattening rape and murder of a sovereign nation. You say a war they can't win many who spend their lives either studying war or have years in the military say they can

Putin and Zelensky probably won't back down that's right. Zelensky says any deal will have to go to a public vote. High 90% of Ukrainians asked don't want to concede land so they won't stop. I don't understand the pilots bit, if you mean nato pilots that's not going to happen.

We've been hearing if we do x y z he'll fire a nuke since February last year. Every supposed red line, heavy weapons, heavy armour, HIMARS, planes, tanks, western tanks and the new one western planes and no nukes.

Put it the other way do you just give up Ukraine in case he nukes, what about Poland, would we give up some of scotland incase of nukes. You can't back down to the threat or it will happen again. That is separate from the fact that Putin and his group of leaders have a good life, they don't want the world to end. The US and China have apparently said even a nuke for show at sea for example is a no go.

As for Zelensky. He's who they have I don't really care if he has dodgy tax goings on or whatever. He's in charge and against a literal genocide of his people so we support him, post war the Ukrainians will decide. Churchill was a **** bag pre war constantly. During it he got everyone's support to beat fascism.

There might be a deal eventually but it won't be before Ukraine has won back at least what they lost this year imo. I don't believe Zelensky could end this today his people would refuse, Putin on the other hand could by them going back to Russia

[Col2]

I didn’t say give up, I said a peaceful compromise. We all know who the aggressors are. You are not telling me the west isn’t carving up future Ukraine natural resources? Why didn’t we all step in 2014?

For what it’s worth I think the Ukrainian people are some of the bravest in the world. I can’t even begin to imagine how horrendous it is. I happened to work with many remotely in 2022. They are amazing.

My point was - everything needs some level of compromise. Isn’t it up to the west to facilitate it?

[Col2]

Hard to know where to start?
How much of Scotland would you be willing to give up if we were invaded just for some peace?


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It’s not our war despite what the politicians say. We are not at war and have as much chance of being invaded by Russia as us invading New Zealand.

Does anyone really think Putin would be stronger on the back of a humiliating peace compromise?

[Stairway 2 7]

I didn’t say give up, I said a peaceful compromise. We all know who the aggressors are. You are not telling me the west isn’t carving up future Ukraine natural resources? Why didn’t we all step in 2014?

For what it’s worth I think the Ukrainian people are some of the bravest in the world. I can’t even begin to imagine how horrendous it is. I happened to work with many remotely in 2022. They are amazing.

My point was - everything needs some level of compromise. Isn’t it up to the west to facilitate it?

Any compromise is giving up parts of their nation. The west shouldn't facilitate anything the Ukrainians don't want. Every time they are polled they say they believe they will win and don't want to give up an inch. They are fighting on regardless, we either give them tools or watch them without.

Everyone said the same thing last summer make a deal ect. I hope they are humble and admit they were wrong, seeing as since then Ukraine has taken back a quarter of the territory taken including by far the biggest city taken Kherson. Could you say to the people of Kherson sorry I was happy for you to forever be Russian.

If you surrender land now Russia will regroup and go again

[Ozyhibby]

It’s not our war despite what the politicians say. We are not at war and have as much chance of being invaded by Russia as us invading New Zealand.

Does anyone really think Putin would be stronger on the back of a humiliating peace compromise?

I would say we are at war. We can’t allow wars of conquest to return to Europe. If they do, it won’t be long before they are at our door. International borders need to be protected.
You said yourself, we didn’t help in 2014. And look where it got us and Ukraine.


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[hibsbollah]

I would say we are at war.

We quite clearly are NOT at war. That’s just ridiculous. You need to think about the implications of what you’re saying.

[Ozyhibby]

We quite clearly are NOT at war. That’s just ridiculous. You need to think about the implications of what you’re saying.

We are very much a party to it. All of the worlds democracy’s have an interest. We are now committed to ensuring Ukraine win. Our soldiers are not directly fighting but we are very much apart of Ukraines defence.


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[hibsbollah]

We are very much a party to it. All of the worlds democracy’s have an interest. We are now committed to ensuring Ukraine win. Our soldiers are not directly fighting but we are very much apart of Ukraines defence.


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My grandad was at war. He told me all about it, all his friends were involved and Midlothian lost lots of its finest sons as a result. There really is no comparison..

[Ozyhibby]

My grandad was at war. He told me all about it, all his friends were involved and Midlothian lost lots of its finest sons as a result. There really is no comparison..

Let’s hope by helping Ukraine we never have to go back to that.


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[hibsbollah]

Let’s hope by helping Ukraine we never have to go back to that.


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Well we agree on that certainly.

[Bristolhibby]

My grandad was at war. He told me all about it, all his friends were involved and Midlothian lost lots of its finest sons as a result. There really is no comparison..

If we pay for it financially, use our supply chains to support a war and train their troops on the weapons we have provided them, are we not at war?

We want the same outcomes and are facilitating those outcomes, just not with the blood of our own citizens.

It might not be total war like in WW1 and WW2, but it’s our war, and we are in it.

J

[Col2]

If we pay for it financially, use our supply chains to support a war and train their troops on the weapons we have provided them, are we not at war?

We want the same outcomes and are facilitating those outcomes, just not with the blood of our own citizens.

It might not be total war like in WW1 and WW2, but it’s our war, and we are in it.

J

Not even close. We literally don’t have a single person in this country fighting a war, we are not mobilizing for war, we are not tactically planning for war, we are not making huge volume of weapons etc.

We are supporting another country who is at war by being invaded.

[hibsbollah]

If we pay for it financially, use our supply chains to support a war and train their troops on the weapons we have provided them, are we not at war?

We want the same outcomes and are facilitating those outcomes, just not with the blood of our own citizens.

It might not be total war like in WW1 and WW2, but it’s our war, and we are in it.

J

We have been doing that for the entire twentieth century, and are still doing that, how do we measure the Saudis against the Yemenis and the Israelis against the Palestinians. Some noble causes, some less so. Some more headline-worthy than others. Regardless, War by proxy isn’t the same thing as REALLY being at war.

[Ozyhibby]

I don’t see any other course of action that is viable but the one the west is taking now. Ukraine needs to be fully liberated to show Putin and any other dictator that we won’t tolerate attacks on democratic countries in Europe.


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[Gatecrasher]

I didn’t say give up, I said a peaceful compromise. We all know who the aggressors are. You are not telling me the west isn’t carving up future Ukraine natural resources? Why didn’t we all step in 2014?

For what it’s worth I think the Ukrainian people are some of the bravest in the world. I can’t even begin to imagine how horrendous it is. I happened to work with many remotely in 2022. They are amazing.

My point was - everything needs some level of compromise. Isn’t it up to the west to facilitate it?

The consequences of Russia winning this war reaches well beyond the borders of Ukraine, there's a reason why Poland and just about every Baltic country is making so much noise about this because if Russia take Ukraine its highly likely they are next. Also not to forget China who have their own ambitions and will have Taiwan on their radar and is watching the world's reaction to the invasion very closely.

I can't imagine if the UK/Scotland was invaded that most folk wouldn't fight tooth and nail to keep every bit of land that's ours. The world needs to show that this kind of action belongs in the past.

[Ozyhibby]

The consequences of Russia winning this war reaches well beyond the borders of Ukraine, there's a reason why Poland and just about every Baltic country is making so much noise about this because if Russia take Ukraine its highly likely they are next. Also not to forget China who have their own ambitions and will have Taiwan on their radar and is watching the world's reaction to the invasion very closely.

I can't imagine if the UK/Scotland was invaded that most folk wouldn't fight tooth and nail to keep every bit of land that's ours. The world needs to show that this kind of action belongs in the past.

Exactly. We tried appeasement and compromise with Putin in 2008 with Georgia and again in 2014 with Ukraine. It didn’t work. Had we done it this time then the Baltic states would be next.


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[Bridge hibs]

Sending jets to Ukraine is my fear, not just for the UK but the world, one missile straying into Russian ground then the games up the pole because those mad ****ers are desperate to retaliate, they ****ing hate the West

[hibsbollah]

The world needs to show that this kind of action belongs in the past.

Unless you mean ‘in Europe’ specifically, the world has 5 or 6 actual hot wars where civilians and combatants from different countries are dying literally every day. Some of these are the wests client states like Saudi or Israel, or where the west has left failed military adventures and left a ****show (Afghanistan) or post empire failed states (Ethiopia). And there’s about 20 cold wars simmering away where a population is being kept from overthrowing their government only by brutal repression (Myanmar, Egypt, name that tune).

None of that makes the rest of your post incorrect, or the war there is any one else’s fault but Russias, but it’s just odd when we are supposed to think there is something exceptionally different going on in Ukraine in world terms.

[Stairway 2 7]

This war is different to every other war going on right now in that, if anything happens in Poland its our kids that are duty bound to retaliate through NATO.

Russias plans showed they wanted Moldova after taking Kyiv in February. Moldova has huge ties with Romania a NATO country. The threat is very real to us.

[Bridge hibs]

This war is different to every other war going on right now in that, if anything happens in Poland its our kids that are duty bound to retaliate through NATO.

Russias plans showed they wanted Moldova after taking Kyiv in February. Moldova has huge ties with Romania a NATO country. The threat is very real to us.Where does it stop ? Russia will give up nothing, they are relentless and theres gonna be a time where tanks, bullets and bombs will run out. Russian aggression will not cease and who will stop them. Putin will continue his rampage until his last breath, hopefully thats soon but not looking likely 🤬

[Stairway 2 7]

Where does it stop ? Russia will give up nothing, they are relentless and theres gonna be a time where tanks, bullets and bombs will run out. Russian aggression will not cease and who will stop them. Putin will continue his rampage until his last breath, hopefully thats soon but not looking likely 🤬

You've got 2 options let Russia take Ukraine and Moldova, people raped murdered and put into mass graves like every town he's taken or let Ukraine defend itself. Ukrainians are going to fight regardless.

There was interesting stuff previously in the thread about how the Russian jail hierarchy shapes the Kremlins thinking. They believe people who seek deals are to be taken advantage of and are weak. Once they are out Ukraine I'm sure we will quickly restart trade with them

[Ozyhibby]

Where does it stop ? Russia will give up nothing, they are relentless and theres gonna be a time where tanks, bullets and bombs will run out. Russian aggression will not cease and who will stop them. Putin will continue his rampage until his last breath, hopefully thats soon but not looking likely [emoji2959]

I wouldn’t say they are that relentless. The Afghans soon sent them packing. This war is costing Russia a lot in every area of life. Sooner than a lot of people think, the Russians will start to question whether it is worth it. Not just the public but the oligarchs and political class as well.
It’s now an unwinnable war for Russia. The two militaries are equal in size but Ukraine now has a serious weapons advantage. And it’s increasing everyday. Russia with only 140 million people cannot come close to matching the spending that the west can put into Ukraine.


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[Smartie]

Sending jets to Ukraine is my fear, not just for the UK but the world, one missile straying into Russian ground then the games up the pole because those mad ****ers are desperate to retaliate, they ****ing hate the West

They may hate the West but they also know that getting into a direct, hot war with them would be unlikely to end well for them.

Whilst I don't know how the war in Ukraine will play out, I'm relatively comfortable that I don't see Russia attacking a NATO country. I don't see China attacking Taiwan either FWIW.

My bigger concerns surround the likes of Trump getting back in in the USA and the EU being weakened by infighting or further British fannying about. If we can remain one big, unified unit then Putin or whoever follows him will need to think long and hard about how many of their diminishing numbers of young people to throw at wars which will bear little positive for them even if "won".

[Jones28]

When does it end? I can’t help think that this country is falling over itself (for politically charged motives) to ensure Ukraine gets endless resources for a war they can’t win.

At some point a compromise needs to be found. The Ukrainian president will not compromise and neither will Putin. We seem to be months away from sending pilots and soldiers the way we are going.

And when Putin fires off a tactical nuke to a near by island as has been suggested is it then we start to realise we should have sought a peace compromise?

It also doesn’t take a huge amount of digging to find out about the cough cough chequered history of the Ukrainian president. The CIA refused entry to several of his ‘security’ due to some horrendous background checks on recent visit to US.


Whats your solution?

It was shared on twitter yesterday that Russia has to capture lots of industrial and agricultural facilities to realise it's plan from last year. They're nowhere near any of that, and are piling working aged men in to a meat grinder.

Why would Putin stop? What do we have to offer him? Turn Ukraine in to some sort of giant DMZ so Putin can feel safe from NaTO eXpANsIoN? Deny the people of Ukraine any sovereignty to decide they want to join NATO/The EU?

Appeasing a dying nutter will not work.

[Bridge hibs]

Whats your solution?

It was shared on twitter yesterday that Russia has to capture lots of industrial and agricultural facilities to realise it's plan from last year. They're nowhere near any of that, and are piling working aged men in to a meat grinder.

Why would Putin stop? What do we have to offer him? Turn Ukraine in to some sort of giant DMZ so Putin can feel safe from NaTO eXpANsIoN? Deny the people of Ukraine any sovereignty to decide they want to join NATO/The EU?

Appeasing a dying nutter will not work.Is he dying ? It was suggested at the beginning of this invasion that he was terminally ill, every breath that **** takes Im hoping it will be his last but the **** is still sucking in our precious oxygen

[Ozyhibby]

Watched the first episode of Putin v the West on BBC last night. Very good watch.


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[Jones28]

Is he dying ? It was suggested at the beginning of this invasion that he was terminally ill, every breath that **** takes Im hoping it will be his last but the **** is still sucking in our precious oxygen

They think he's taking a lot of steroids, cancer and parkinsons have both been mentioned. Ukraines Military Intelligence are the ones behind the cancer claim, and the thing for me is why say it?

It's not going to demoralise concripted soldiers and Wagners convict recruits who are taking the blunt of the Bakhmut slaughter. It's not going to demoralise the Russian people, half of them don't agree with the war and the rest won't listen to Ukranian messaging anyway. It sure as hell wont matter to the West if he has cancer or not.

The only credible reason for claiming it is so that the Ukranian people get a boost, but if he doesn't die soon then they look foolish?

Making a claim he's going to die soon without good cause seems pointless.

[Ryan91]

Sending jets to Ukraine is my fear, not just for the UK but the world, one missile straying into Russian ground then the games up the pole because those mad ****ers are desperate to retaliate, they ****ing hate the West

Russia and Putin aren't completely brain dead, they know that any attack on any NATO nation (e.g. Poland) would see an overwhelming response, and there is zero chance the Russian armed forces would face any sort of success against a co-ordinated NATO response.

The whole nuke threat is just sabre-rattling, a bluff if you will.

I say send them the Jets, I'm sure the UK has a few spare Tornado GR4s kicking about, a couple of them decimating a Russian armoured column would have them out of Ukraine pretty quick IMO.

[BS44]

Is the Wagner guy going after Bakhmut to get his grubby mitts on the millions of bottles of wine that are stored underground there? Must be worth a fortune if they steal and and then resell them.

Big salt mine there too

[Ozyhibby]

Is the Wagner guy going after Bakhmut to get his grubby mitts on the millions of bottles of wine that are stored underground there? Must be worth a fortune if they steal and and then resell them.

Big salt mine there too

Not really being reported yet but Wagner look like they are getting sidelined. Russian army have taken over in Bakhmut and they are all recruiting directly from the prisons themselves.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1623635097680244736?s=46&t=pSPDY9Cyhc3IFNtOfxkcJA

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

Sending jets to Ukraine is my fear, not just for the UK but the world, one missile straying into Russian ground then the games up the pole because those mad ****ers are desperate to retaliate, they ****ing hate the West

The Russians already consider Ukraine as Russia so according to their own logic there are already attacks taking place on Russian ground.

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/8YkGrKQXZxE

This is an interesting watch on how Putin miscalculated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Apparently most at vuhledar which was apparently a slaughter yesterday, brutal stuff. Here is 3 tanks yesterday being destroyed by German anti tank mines

https://mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1622633889314250752

Lots of video and photos appearing online now of what happened. Apparently Russians tried to attack in a single file column and were routed.
https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1622964217677488129?s=46&t=bDQLwbFyU0WQGGvI6wjHmw

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1623860112287825920?s=46&t=bDQLwbFyU0WQGGvI6wjHmw

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230210/cd65fd3cb2cc85fbdc90318a25a1f13c.jpg
Ukrainian air defence getting stronger.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://apnews.com/article/politics-maia-sandu-moldova-69a879ddc1a6e9b04523acf6c5913f4d

Moldovan govt collapses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BS44]

Ukraine claims two Russian missles flew through both Moldovan and Romanian airspace, Romania saying missles didn't enter it's airspace. If Ukraine can prove they have entered Romanian skies what can we expect NATO to do next?

[Stairway 2 7]

Ukraine claims two Russian missles flew through both Moldovan and Romanian airspace, Romania saying missles didn't enter it's airspace. If Ukraine can prove they have entered Romanian skies what can we expect NATO to do next?

Doubt they will do anything for flying through, harsh words and air defenses sent to Romania with the promise of shooting them down? Same as when one was shot down and landed in Poland

[Stairway 2 7]

Seeing as they need western parts to replace most of their military heavy equipment, the war won't be able to last at this pace for another few years. Can see a massive push from Russia in the next 3 months, before Ukraine do there's in spring

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1624132962613698561

PhillipsPOBrien
In less than a year, Pentagon is estimating that Russia has lost half of its entire tank stock

[Stairway 2 7]

It's been bizarre watching the far left and far right join in their support for Putin. Here's a good piece on the right and particularly the US. With an election next year, I hope they can get enough done before Reps might return.

https://nickcohen.substack.com/p/why-the-western-far-right-supports

Why the Western far right supports Vladimir Putin

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1624325014072840196?s=46&t=2648mbDnz-AP551lnbR16g

Very heavy fighting another huge death toll yesterday for the Russians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

It's been bizarre watching the far left and far right join in their support for Putin. Here's a good piece on the right and particularly the US. With an election next year, I hope they can get enough done before Reps might return.

https://nickcohen.substack.com/p/why-the-western-far-right-supports

Why the Western far right supports Vladimir Putin

Who on the Left? George Galloway?
Nick Cohen has always been an arse. Everything he writes is motivated by a hatred of socialism. An article about the far rights support for Putin but he mentions the far left as ‘being part of the same dynamic’, his evidence being socialists looking at Soviet Russia? That was 30+ years ago :clown: There is absolutely zero evidence for Trump supporters and far left ideologues being in some sort of pro Russian tryst. Nonsense.

[Stairway 2 7]

Who on the Left? George Galloway?
Nick Cohen has always been an arse. Everything he writes is motivated by a hatred of socialism. An article about the far rights support for Putin but he mentions the far left as ‘being part of the same dynamic’, his evidence being socialists looking at Soviet Russia? That was 30+ years ago :clown: There is absolutely zero evidence for Trump supporters and far left ideologues being in some sort of pro Russian tryst. Nonsense.

You seriously saying there isn't many on the left appeasing Russia and constantly highlighting faults in Ukraine. The start of the war has been full of useful idiots parroting Kremlin lines.

From classics like half of Ukraine feel Russian anyway, what about Iraq, Butcha isnt real, Ukraine are Nazis please ignore all the Russian Nazis, Ukraine can't win so concede. They always want Ukraine to concede land and stop now, but they didn't say to Palestine, Vietnam, Iraq your smaller just concede. Look at Germany when they have a vote on more arms its always die link and afd opposing it. Its obviously a small proportion of the left and right but it's disappointing when it's the left

George Monbiot is always frustrated with it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1623591615297204225

George Monbiot
@GeorgeMonbiot
There is a left – the majority – that’s principled and consistent in denouncing all imperialist war. And there’s another left, represented by Roger Waters, John Pilger, Media Lens etc, that denounces Western wars of aggression but makes excuses for Russian wars of aggression

I wrote this when Russia's invasion began. The propagandising for Putin's imperial war by his sycophants in the West is another shameful chapter in a long history of apologetics for crimes against humanity
https://archive.ph/gEKxs


Feb 9
Well, Prigozhin's little helpers - cheerleaders for Russia's imperialist war - are out in force today!
Warmongers, every one

[Ozyhibby]

While the left are quieter just now there is def an element who want to give Putin a pass. Corbyn is one for a start. Johnson was **** but I’m still glad he beat Corbyn and I’m thankful I didn’t have to choose between them. Ukraine would have been abandoned had he won.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

You seriously saying there isn't many on the left appeasing Russia and constantly highlighting faults in Ukraine. The start of the war has been full of useful idiots parroting Kremlin lines.

From classics like half of Ukraine feel Russian anyway, what about Iraq, Butcha isnt real, Ukraine are Nazis please ignore all the Russian Nazis, Ukraine can't win so concede. They always want Ukraine to concede land and stop now, but they didn't say to Palestine, Vietnam, Iraq your smaller just concede. Look at Germany when they have a vote on more arms its always die link and afd opposing it. Its obviously a small proportion of the left and right but it's disappointing when it's the left

George Monbiot is always frustrated with it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1623591615297204225

George Monbiot
@GeorgeMonbiot
There is a left – the majority – that’s principled and consistent in denouncing all imperialist war. And there’s another left, represented by Roger Waters, John Pilger, Media Lens etc, that denounces Western wars of aggression but makes excuses for Russian wars of aggression

I wrote this when Russia's invasion began. The propagandising for Putin's imperial war by his sycophants in the West is another shameful chapter in a long history of apologetics for crimes against humanity
https://archive.ph/gEKxs


Feb 9
Well, Prigozhin's little helpers - cheerleaders for Russia's imperialist war - are out in force today!
Warmongers, every one

As usual there is confusion here between contextualising, and maybe questioning strategic decisions, (which of course the right does aaal the time), and ‘supporting Putin’. Corbyn has been calling out Putin since the days when the western establishment was kissing his erchie and hiding his millions.

Roger Waters tweeting on one hand and err, the entire content of Foxs output, isn’t really two comparable power dynamics, are they?

[Rumble de Thump]

As usual there is confusion here between contextualising, and maybe questioning strategic decisions, (which of course the right does aaal the time), and ‘supporting Putin’. Corbyn has been calling out Putin since the days when the western establishment was kissing his erchie and hiding his millions.

Roger Waters tweeting on one hand and err, the entire content of Foxs output, isn’t really two comparable power dynamics, are they?

Over the past year it's been difficult to tell many on the far left and far right apart. Inadvertently or not, they have both been acting like extensions of the Kremlin's propaganda network as it suits their agendas, and it's behaviour that does support Putin.

[hibsbollah]

Over the past year it's been difficult to tell many on the far left and far right apart. Inadvertently or not, they have both been acting like extensions of the Kremlin's propaganda network as it suits their agendas, and it's behaviour that does support Putin.

There’s no evidence for that all. There just isn’t. If, I dunno, AOC, Sultana, Corbyn, Ash sarkar, were writing in support of Putin, you’d have a point. Which figures on the left are you thinking of? And what have they said?

[Smartie]

There’s no evidence for that all. There just isn’t. If, I dunno, AOC, Sultana, Corbyn, Ash sarkar, were writing in support of Putin, you’d have a point. Which figures on the left are you thinking of? And what have they said?

Could you say that Lula in Brazil counts? A year ago I don't think I'd have known what a "tankie" was, but whilst I can't reel off specific examples, it's now an insult I hear fairly often regarding anyone of a left wing position who may hold a nuanced position on the war in Ukraine.

I certainly have far more by way of concern about what the far right are up to everywhere but especially in America, Europe and the UK and what that means for European security and the future military and economic situations we have with Russia.

In this particular situation, dragging "the left" into it seems to me to be a very false equivalence.

[Rumble de Thump]

There’s no evidence for that all. There just isn’t. If, I dunno, AOC, Sultana, Corbyn, Ash sarkar, were writing in support of Putin, you’d have a point. Which figures on the left are you thinking of? And what have they said?

I can only assume you misread what I wrote because I simply stated the obvious reality of the situation.

[Stairway 2 7]

There’s no evidence for that all. There just isn’t. If, I dunno, AOC, Sultana, Corbyn, Ash sarkar, were writing in support of Putin, you’d have a point. Which figures on the left are you thinking of? And what have they said?

Both Corbyn and Tucker Carlson said in June when Ukraine started fighting back we should have a ceasefire and peace. Russia would have championed both as its lost about a third of the conquered land since then. They don't say we are pro Putin that is ridiculous but they parrot lines the Kremlin love. I'm not saying its all, but there is a small problem with some in the left picking and choosing there genocides

Idiots Claire Daly and mick Wallace spouting Russian lines in the euro parliament constantly in the name of peace
https://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1512004077172965377

Libertarian party US
https://mobile.twitter.com/LPNH/status/1566472421154103297

Tommy Sheridan literally retweets the Russian embassy and still says Bucha didn't happen
https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1622975982536630273

Socialist labour party
https://mobile.twitter.com/Fio_edwards/status/1620138790907174912

Uk communist party
https://mobile.twitter.com/CPBritain/status/1623798830255726592

Good account posting tankie bad takes
https://mobile.twitter.com/russophileLs


The thing that got Monbiot fuming was loads on the left falling overthemselves yesterday after Seymour Hersh wrote an article 'proving' the US blew up nord stream. The useful idiots were out in delight. Until it was proved by bellingcat and and everyone with basic military knowledge that his piece was wrong in every way. Some delighted in Seymours piece


Michael Tracey
https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1623474082103676929
John pilger
https://mobile.twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1623538549596516352
World socialist news
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSWS_Updates/status/1623925245311696896
Claire Daily
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1623688226367057921

[Stairway 2 7]

A big departure from Serbia, Moscow will not be amused


@visegrad24
·
Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić asked whether Crimea is part of Russia or Ukraine.

He answers:

“Crimea is part of Ukraine. Donbas in part of Ukraine

[Smartie]

A big departure from Serbia, Moscow will not be amused


@visegrad24
·
Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić asked whether Crimea is part of Russia or Ukraine.

He answers:

“Crimea is part of Ukraine. Donbas in part of Ukraine

Serbia starting to sound like it’s in need of some liberation and denazification then?

[hibsbollah]

Both Corbyn and Tucker Carlson said in June when Ukraine started fighting back we should have a ceasefire and peace. Russia would have championed both as its lost about a third of the conquered land since then. They don't say we are pro Putin that is ridiculous but they parrot lines the Kremlin love. I'm not saying its all, but there is a small problem with some in the left picking and choosing there genocides

Idiots Claire Daly and mick Wallace spouting Russian lines in the euro parliament constantly in the name of peace
https://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1512004077172965377

Libertarian party US
https://mobile.twitter.com/LPNH/status/1566472421154103297

Tommy Sheridan literally retweets the Russian embassy and still says Bucha didn't happen
https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1622975982536630273

Socialist labour party
https://mobile.twitter.com/Fio_edwards/status/1620138790907174912

Uk communist party
https://mobile.twitter.com/CPBritain/status/1623798830255726592

Good account posting tankie bad takes
https://mobile.twitter.com/russophileLs


The thing that got Monbiot fuming was loads on the left falling overthemselves yesterday after Seymour Hersh wrote an article 'proving' the US blew up nord stream. The useful idiots were out in delight. Until it was proved by bellingcat and and everyone with basic military knowledge that his piece was wrong in every way. Some delighted in Seymours piece


Michael Tracey
https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1623474082103676929
John pilger
https://mobile.twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1623538549596516352
World socialist news
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSWS_Updates/status/1623925245311696896
Claire Daily
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1623688226367057921

Selective quoting Corbyn does you no credit. He pointed out that there was a total absence of discussion about peace talks and there should be more discussion. From both sides. And that Russia was to blame. I totally agree with him and saying that shouldnt be in any way contentious and offering no succour to Putin at all. Of course, it then gets misinterpreted deliberately, and we all know why. Because before anti semitism was used to smear him, there was a fairly successful attempt to connect him with pro Russian/pro Soviet/some nonsense about Czech spies meetings back in the day. All absolute rubbish but which gets a seed planted in peoples minds.

There have been historically a few on the Left who have been warmongers. But generally, the Left think of war as essentially negative, that its about an imperial desire of the ruling class trying to increase their range at the expense of the interests of the mass population. We'd rather spend our money on free wifi, schools, hospitals, bridges, roads, not on weapons. Thats why the Left has a lot of pacifists within its ranks. And what Lula is focusing on, not giving weapons to a country on the other side of the world. Corbyn is a pacifist.

The great challenge for pacifists, of course, when a war stops being about imperial expansion as part of a capitalist project, which is what the vast majority of wars are actually about, and becomes about existential survival, which is what most wars are portrayed as being about, when they are actually about the first thing. In Ukraine's case, the Left globally has got it about right, and is broadly united against Russian imperialist expansion. I agree with George Monbiot, who is a Leftist himself, on those ragtag of individuals who you seem to have dug up on twitter.n But seriously, its laughable to even make the parallel with what we're seeing from Fox News, Tucker Carlson, the Serbian/Hungarian/French far right parties who are actively pro-Russian. That actual positioning by the Left just doesn't exist.

[hibsbollah]

I can only assume you misread what I wrote because I simply stated the obvious reality of the situation.

...that you find it difficult to tell the far left and the far right apart? Its a ridiculous take. A sub Nat 4 Modern Studies take.

[Stairway 2 7]

Selective quoting Corbyn does you no credit. He pointed out that there was a total absence of discussion about peace talks and there should be more discussion. From both sides. And that Russia was to blame. I totally agree with him and saying that shouldnt be in any way contentious and offering no succour to Putin at all. Of course, it then gets misinterpreted deliberately, and we all know why. Because before anti semitism was used to smear him, there was a fairly successful attempt to connect him with pro Russian/pro Soviet/some nonsense about Czech spies meetings back in the day. All absolute rubbish but which gets a seed planted in peoples minds.

There have been historically a few on the Left who have been warmongers. But generally, the Left think of war as essentially negative, that its about an imperial desire of the ruling class trying to increase their range at the expense of the interests of the mass population. We'd rather spend our money on free wifi, schools, hospitals, bridges, roads, not on weapons. Thats why the Left has a lot of pacifists within its ranks. And what Lula is focusing on, not giving weapons to a country on the other side of the world. Corbyn is a pacifist.

The great challenge for pacifists, of course, when a war stops being about imperial expansion as part of a capitalist project, which is what the vast majority of wars are actually about, and becomes about existential survival, which is what most wars are portrayed as being about, when they are actually about the first thing. In Ukraine's case, the Left globally has got it about right, and is broadly united against Russian imperialist expansion. I agree with George Monbiot, who is a Leftist himself, on those ragtag of individuals who you seem to have dug up on twitter.n But seriously, its laughable to even make the parallel with what we're seeing from Fox News, Tucker Carlson, the Serbian/Hungarian/French far right parties who are actively pro-Russian. That actual positioning by the Left just doesn't exist.

A lot of words to talk about pacifism when the subject was some on the left and right keep parroting Russian lines. No one said the left and right were in equal proportion its a minority in both but larger in the right.

You mention the far right parties in certain nations but ignore the far left parties in the EU, Germany and Lithuania that have apposed sanctions.

It's not just about full on pascism stop the war its putting out lines the Kremlin would love as I said before,

Russian East are pro Russia and will welcome Russia - they welcomed them with grenades

Bucha wasn't real - satellite information showed beyond a doubt

Azov are nazis - that one has gone quiet since Wagner (named after Hitlers favourite composer and founded and led by a neo Nazi) are a main part of the army

Russia was acting in defence - Putin likens himself to Alexander and says he is bringing back Ukraine to Russia

Ukraine can't win so should try for peace - tell it to the people of Kherson that would have been Russian

Russia will not invade Ukraine - ...

[Stairway 2 7]

I know you like George Monbiot another couple of threads from him on the lefts "Prigozhin's little helpers - cheerleaders for Russia's imperialist"

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1497511988322258948
@GeorgeMonbiot
For years I've been arguing with a faction within the "anti-imperialist" left, that is neither anti-imperialist nor distinguishable in its foreign policy positions from the far right. It is pro-Putin. It recycles Kremlin propaganda and whitewashes atrocities

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1503758826461409287

GeorgeMonbiot
We need to talk about #Westplaining.
It’s a term coined by the Eastern European left to describe a tendency of certain Western leftists to ascribe everything that happens east of Germany to Western policy

[hibsbollah]

A lot of words to talk about pacifism when the subject was some on the left and right keep parroting Russian lines. No one said the left and right were in equal proportion its a minority in both but larger in the right.

You mention the far right parties in certain nations but ignore the far left parties in the EU, Germany and Lithuania that have apposed sanctions.

It's not just about full on pascism stop the war its putting out lines the Kremlin would love as I said before,

Russian East are pro Russia and will welcome Russia - they welcomed them with grenades

Bucha wasn't real - satellite information showed beyond a doubt

Azov are nazis - that one has gone quiet since Wagner (named after Hitlers favourite composer and founded and led by a neo Nazi) are a main part of the army

Russia was acting in defence - Putin likens himself to Alexander and says he is bringing back Ukraine to Russia

Ukraine can't win so should try for peace - tell it to the people of Kherson that would have been Russian

Russia will not invade Ukraine - ...

Those quotes arent actually quotes, who said those things?

I think a discussion on the contradictions of a pacifist position is interesting, you clearly dont want to widen the discussion into something i think is more interesting, I understand that.

If your position is 'some left wing folk on twitter sometimes say stuff that could be perceived as being pro-Russian sometimes'. Yes, that sometimes happens.

[WeeRussell]

Both Corbyn and Tucker Carlson said in June when Ukraine started fighting back we should have a ceasefire and peace. Russia would have championed both as its lost about a third of the conquered land since then. They don't say we are pro Putin that is ridiculous but they parrot lines the Kremlin love. I'm not saying its all, but there is a small problem with some in the left picking and choosing there genocides

Idiots Claire Daly and mick Wallace spouting Russian lines in the euro parliament constantly in the name of peace
https://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1512004077172965377

Libertarian party US
https://mobile.twitter.com/LPNH/status/1566472421154103297

Tommy Sheridan literally retweets the Russian embassy and still says Bucha didn't happen
https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1622975982536630273

Socialist labour party
https://mobile.twitter.com/Fio_edwards/status/1620138790907174912

Uk communist party
https://mobile.twitter.com/CPBritain/status/1623798830255726592

Good account posting tankie bad takes
https://mobile.twitter.com/russophileLs


The thing that got Monbiot fuming was loads on the left falling overthemselves yesterday after Seymour Hersh wrote an article 'proving' the US blew up nord stream. The useful idiots were out in delight. Until it was proved by bellingcat and and everyone with basic military knowledge that his piece was wrong in every way. Some delighted in Seymours piece


Michael Tracey
https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1623474082103676929
John pilger
https://mobile.twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1623538549596516352
World socialist news
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSWS_Updates/status/1623925245311696896
Claire Daily
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1623688226367057921

Appealing for peace doesn’t equate to supporting Putin. I don’t know what other quotes and details there are but if hoping for a ceasefire and end to the war is your best for “parroting lines the kremlin love” that’s pretty poor in my opinion.

[Rumble de Thump]

Appealing for peace doesn’t equate to supporting Putin. I don’t know what other quotes and details there are but if hoping for a ceasefire and end to the war is your best for “parroting lines the kremlin love” that’s pretty poor in my opinion.

When people 'appealing for peace' amounts to expecting Ukraine to concede and/or other countries to stop helping Ukrainians to defend themselves it's not appealing for peace at all. So there's nothing noble or useful in that. It's very disingenuous, and it's no surprise that this is the kind of patter the Kremlin pushes out through it's network.

If people 'appealing for peace' are actually trying to encourage Russia to withdraw its troops from Russia and end it's war, the Russian dictatorship has absolutely no interest in that. In the meantime, Ukraine still needs help preventing its genocide.

[Bridge hibs]

When people 'appealing for peace' amounts to expecting Ukraine to concede and/or other countries to stop helping Ukrainians to defend themselves it's not appealing for peace at all. So there's nothing noble or useful in that. It's very disingenuous, and it's no surprise that this is the kind of patter the Kremlin pushes out through it's network.

If people 'appealing for peace' are actually trying to encourage Russia to withdraw its troops from Russia and end it's war, the Russian dictatorship has absolutely no interest in that. In the meantime, Ukraine still needs help preventing its genocide.Surely though there are powerful people in the world that dont want their countries destroyed. Their interest is as important as is that of Nato, Ukraine and Russia. There are neutral countries throughout the world that are playing no part but would suffer should this escalate. China as an example share a border with Russia, if the unthinkable was to happen then its ta ta to them too. Surely the Chinese heirarchy should be putting pressure on Putin to wrap the **** up too, there are no winners here

[WeeRussell]

When people 'appealing for peace' amounts to expecting Ukraine to concede and/or other countries to stop helping Ukrainians to defend themselves it's not appealing for peace at all. So there's nothing noble or useful in that. It's very disingenuous, and it's no surprise that this is the kind of patter the Kremlin pushes out through it's network.

If people 'appealing for peace' are actually trying to encourage Russia to withdraw its troops from Russia and end it's war, the Russian dictatorship has absolutely no interest in that. In the meantime, Ukraine still needs help preventing its genocide.

I know. And definitely don’t need patronised on Ukraine still needing help.

Again, I don’t know what actual quotes or other details S27 has on what his first two contributors have said that qualify as supporting Putin, but stand by simply saying they were calling for peace doesn’t equate to that.

He or someone else might well come along with a quote or quotes which goes beyond that and I’ll happily condemn it/them.

[BS44]

Surely though there are powerful people in the world that dont want their countries destroyed. Their interest is as important as is that of Nato, Ukraine and Russia. There are neutral countries throughout the world that are playing no part but would suffer should this escalate. China as an example share a border with Russia, if the unthinkable was to happen then its ta ta to them too. Surely the Chinese heirarchy should be putting pressure on Putin to wrap the **** up too, there are no winners here

China had a word in Putin's ear when he threatened to use all means available earlier in the war

[Stonewall]

China had a word in Putin's ear when he threatened to use all means available earlier in the war

Indians are extremely displeased with Russia too.

[Bridge hibs]

China had a word in Putin's ear when he threatened to use all means available earlier in the warA word though, there should be pressure, ****ing stop it now, no concessions, get to **** out of Ukraine and worry about your own country

[Stairway 2 7]

Appealing for peace doesn’t equate to supporting Putin. I don’t know what other quotes and details there are but if hoping for a ceasefire and end to the war is your best for “parroting lines the kremlin love” that’s pretty poor in my opinion.

No I mentioned 5 or six more including yesterday's nonsense about proof the US blew up nord stream.

But if talking just about people who talked about ceasefire then OK. Why don't the people who called for a ceasefire in the summer admit they were wrong. If the Ukraine had done that the third of newly annexed land they have retaken since then would be Russian.

The fact is its not for us in the West to tell Ukraine what to do it's up to them. Zelensky says any deal will have to go to the people, almost unanimously Ukrainians want to retake every inch when asked.

On the other side its beyond nieve to think Russia will make peace, prigozhin today said Russia expects to take Donbas in 1 to 2 years and Odesa in 3.

[tamig]

A big departure from Serbia, Moscow will not be amused


@visegrad24
·
Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić asked whether Crimea is part of Russia or Ukraine.

He answers:

“Crimea is part of Ukraine. Donbas in part of Ukraine

This isn’t new news. They said weeks ago they didn’t recognise any of the annexations - including Crimea.

[Stairway 2 7]

I know. And definitely don’t need patronised on Ukraine still needing help.

Again, I don’t know what actual quotes or other details S27 has on what his first two contributors have said that qualify as supporting Putin, but stand by simply saying they were calling for peace doesn’t equate to that.

He or someone else might well come along with a quote or quotes which goes beyond that and I’ll happily condemn it/them.

Who is it your talking about, the first two contributers

[WeeRussell]

Who is it your talking about, the first two contributers

I’m not tech savvy enough to multiquote 😁..

In reply to your first, I agree with much of what you say. My only point is calling for peace in itself isn’t voicing support for Putin. Obviously we’d all like to see an end to war.. but as you correctly say, it’s unlikely to happen soon and even more unlikely to happen in the way we want it.

The first two people you mentioned were Corbyn and Carlsson. And again, I’m not saying I am I fan of either, or that their views are correct (or shouldn’t be condemned) - just that the summary of calling for peace in itself isn’t good (or bad in this case) enough to put under the supporting Putin bracket.

[Hibrandenburg]

I’m not tech savvy enough to multiquote 😁..

In reply to your first, I agree with much of what you say. My only point is calling for peace in itself isn’t voicing support for Putin. Obviously we’d all like to see an end to war.. but as you correctly say, it’s unlikely to happen soon and even more unlikely to happen in the way we want it.

The first two people you mentioned were Corbyn and Carlsson. And again, I’m not saying I am I fan of either, or that their views are correct (or shouldn’t be condemned) - just that the summary of calling for peace in itself isn’t good (or bad in this case) enough to put under the supporting Putin bracket.

It's just another variant of the "you're either with us or against us" bull****.

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not tech savvy enough to multiquote 😁..

In reply to your first, I agree with much of what you say. My only point is calling for peace in itself isn’t voicing support for Putin. Obviously we’d all like to see an end to war.. but as you correctly say, it’s unlikely to happen soon and even more unlikely to happen in the way we want it.

The first two people you mentioned were Corbyn and Carlsson. And again, I’m not saying I am I fan of either, or that their views are correct (or shouldn’t be condemned) - just that the summary of calling for peace in itself isn’t good (or bad in this case) enough to put under the supporting Putin bracket.

I'm actually generally a fan of Corbyn and think Carlsson is horrible and there is no comparison to their differing support for Putin. It's just both would have had a ceasefire in May and condemned hundreds of thousands of now liberated people to genocide. It's not supporting Putin it's more playing into his hands.

The stop the war people would never tell Palestine to just accept your fate isreal is bigger and I'm sure they wouldn't have told the Vietnamese to accept the US invasion.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's just another variant of the "you're either with us or against us" bull****.

If you oppose sending weapons to Ukraine like the stop the war coalition were then yes that is against, leaving Ukraine to the inevitable fate. If western weapons weren't sent pre and post war then Ukraine would be a Russian state and all the pacifists in the world wouldn't have stopped that. How many more Bucha's would there have been without Ukraine fighting on how many more Ukrainian orphans sent to Eastern Russia

[Bridge hibs]

World leaders, very powerful people are watching hundreds of thousands of people, mostly innocent being slaughtered, but it continues, due to one man and one country

World leaders are watching economies destroyed that will take billions of cash and decades to rebuild

Globally this is affecting every nation whether part of it or not. Surely to **** that cretin Putin cant hold the world to ransom. One little man, his ego and his threats ffs, this world is so ****ed up its unbelievable !!

[Glory Lurker]

If you don't want Ukraine to win, you support Russia. Pretty easy.

[Stairway 2 7]

World leaders, very powerful people are watching hundreds of thousands of people, mostly innocent being slaughtered, but it continues, due to one man and one country

World leaders are watching economies destroyed that will take billions of cash and decades to rebuild

Globally this is affecting every nation whether part of it or not. Surely to **** that cretin Putin cant hold the world to ransom. One little man, his ego and his threats ffs, this world is so ****ed up its unbelievable !!

I've said it before but I think the US/west are trying to bleed Russia dry to inflict maximum damage to all aspects of the nation.

The US last week agreed to sell 400 HIMARS to Poland. They have devastated the Russian army in Ukraine and the US has only sent 18.

After a year we are just setting up sending modern tank and talking about planes in 6 months or more.

I think they know if they sent hundreds of the US's thousands of HIMARS last spring hundreds of tanks hundreds of planes, then Russia could have been defeated in weeks.

Putin would have survived by blaming the west. But importantly he'd still have thousands of tanks, millions of artillery and bullets all still in storage. Also there would be no conscription so he could go again. Western countries would restart trade and the oil and gas wouldn't have switched over

This way they are depleting everything they have built since the 60s, also destroying the economy for decades, wasting the youth of the nation and everyone has set up new oil and gas routes.

I might be cynical but I think Ukrainian lives are being used to destroy Russia as a force for decades

[Stairway 2 7]

I mentioned westsplaning earlier

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1624562430176108547

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
Polish woman calls in to a British radio show and says she’s tired of all the “Westsplaining” on Ukraine

[Hibrandenburg]

If you oppose sending weapons to Ukraine like the stop the war coalition were then yes that is against, leaving Ukraine to the inevitable fate. If western weapons weren't sent pre and post war then Ukraine would be a Russian state and all the pacifists in the world wouldn't have stopped that. How many more Bucha's would there have been without Ukraine fighting on how many more Ukrainian orphans sent to Eastern Russia

I rest my case.

[Stairway 2 7]

I rest my case.

Good well thought out reply lad

[Ozyhibby]

If you don't want Ukraine to win, you support Russia. Pretty easy.

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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[Stairway 2 7]

Russian losses are really unbelievable, can't believe we're seeing these kinds of numbers in the 21st century, sickening

https://mobile.twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1624685706764341248

Mike Martin 🔶
@ThreshedThought
Let’s have a look at Russian casualty rates. UK MOD reporting up to 800/day over the last week.

800/ day is (say) 5000/wk or 20k/ mth

[WeeRussell]

If you don't want Ukraine to win, you support Russia. Pretty easy.

Who doesn’t want Ukraine to win though?

It’s easy for us to sit, safe and well, championing every Russian loss like it’s some sort of computer game, and backing Ukrainian forces like a football team. But I’m sure people living (and dying) in Ukraine want this to go away asap.

I fully accept it’s not as easy just to ‘stop the war’ and also agree Ukraine should give up nothing. I understand negotiations are likely to go nowhere with that horrible little cretin Putin, but people saying they hope for some sort of peace soon to put an end to all the horrific suffering that war brings doesn’t automatically equate to being on Russia’s side. That was all.

To be absolutely clear I’m not even necessarily agreeing with any of the comments made by Corbyn or anyone else - I don’t think anything will end for a long time, and I hope Ukraine continue to kick their arse and keep/take back everything that is theirs. To save any 4 paragraph responses (or indeed any one line insinuations) lecturing about how bad Putin is, and how Ukraine need the help.. I know and fully support it.

I would think every single one of us on here want the same thing and are in full support of Ukraine. However it sometimes feels like we lose sense of how brutal war is. And there’s nothing heroic in writing off people hoping for peaceful outcomes as being on the wrong side, however unlikely their hopes might be.

Putin is evil. So is war. And it’s ****ing heartbreaking that we still live with horrible little ***** like him in a world that still has people wanting to kill one another.

[Stairway 2 7]

Who doesn’t want Ukraine to win though?

It’s easy for us to sit, safe and well, championing every Russian loss like it’s some sort of computer game, and backing Ukrainian forces like a football team. But I’m sure people living (and dying) in Ukraine want this to go away asap.

I fully accept it’s not as easy just to ‘stop the war’ and also agree Ukraine should give up nothing. I understand negotiations are likely to go nowhere with that horrible little cretin Putin, but people saying they hope for some sort of peace soon to put an end to all the horrific suffering that war brings doesn’t automatically equate to being on Russia’s side. That was all.

To be absolutely clear I’m not even necessarily agreeing with any of the comments made by Corbyn or anyone else - I don’t think anything will end for a long time, and I hope Ukraine continue to kick their arse and keep/take back everything that is theirs. To save any 4 paragraph responses (or indeed any one line insinuations) lecturing about how bad Putin is, and how Ukraine need the help.. I know and fully support it.

I would think every single one of us on here want the same thing and are in full support of Ukraine. However it sometimes feels like we lose sense of how brutal war is. And there’s nothing heroic in writing off people hoping for peaceful outcomes as being on the wrong side, however unlikely their hopes might be.

Putin is evil. So is war. And it’s ****ing heartbreaking that we still live with horrible little ***** like him in a world that still has people wanting to kill one another.

To be fair I believe the attitude of let's have peace now is literally the opposite of asking Ukrainians what they want. It goes with what eastern Europeans are calling westsplaining. Almost all Ukrainians when asked want to keep fighting, for me that is it end of discussion. They also say unanimously quite rightly they do not accept to lose one inch of what Russia has taken.

So if Ukraine are going to keep fighting until the end and Russia will obviously keep going until defeated, then what are stop the war wanting. Is it for us to just speak clearer and simpler to the Ukrainians that they should concede land.

I personally think in the real world Russia won't back down and leave so Ukraine need the equipment needed to get them out as soon as possible. The more weapons the quicker this can be over and with the least bloodshed and genocide.

[WeeRussell]

To be fair I believe the attitude of let's have peace now is literally the opposite of asking Ukrainians what they want. It goes with what eastern Europeans are calling westsplaining. Almost all Ukrainians when asked want to keep fighting, for me that is it end of discussion. They also say unanimously quite rightly they do not accept to lose one inch of what Russia has taken.

So if Ukraine are going to keep fighting until the end and Russia will obviously keep going until defeated, then what are stop the war wanting. Is it for us to just speak clearer and simpler to the Ukrainians that they should concede land.

I personally think in the real world Russia won't back down and leave so Ukraine need the equipment needed to get them out as soon as possible. The more weapons the quicker this can be over and with the least bloodshed and genocide.

I believe you’ve completely ignored or misread my third paragraph, and the end of my fourth. Essentially I pretty much agree with most of what you’ve said above and happy to leave it there rather than go round in long-winded circles trying to explain what I thought was pretty straightforward.

[Stairway 2 7]

I believe you’ve completely ignored or misread my third paragraph, and the end of my fourth. Essentially I pretty much agree with most of what you’ve said above and happy to leave it there rather than go round in long-winded circles trying to explain what I thought was pretty straightforward.

I'm not speaking about you personally I'm talking about the ones shouting for a ceasefire. I believe they may have best wishes at heart but its ridiculous. Especially when you see polls like this poll in Tagesspiegel. 89% of Ukrainians would want to fight on in the event of a nuclear bomb on a Ukrainian city. 85% say a withdrawal by Russia to the demarcation line at the beginning of the aggressive war would not be an acceptable basis for a ceasefire and about the same for crimea being Russian, only 5% for ceasefire

[Hibrandenburg]

Who doesn’t want Ukraine to win though?

It’s easy for us to sit, safe and well, championing every Russian loss like it’s some sort of computer game, and backing Ukrainian forces like a football team. But I’m sure people living (and dying) in Ukraine want this to go away asap.

I fully accept it’s not as easy just to ‘stop the war’ and also agree Ukraine should give up nothing. I understand negotiations are likely to go nowhere with that horrible little cretin Putin, but people saying they hope for some sort of peace soon to put an end to all the horrific suffering that war brings doesn’t automatically equate to being on Russia’s side. That was all.

To be absolutely clear I’m not even necessarily agreeing with any of the comments made by Corbyn or anyone else - I don’t think anything will end for a long time, and I hope Ukraine continue to kick their arse and keep/take back everything that is theirs. To save any 4 paragraph responses (or indeed any one line insinuations) lecturing about how bad Putin is, and how Ukraine need the help.. I know and fully support it.

I would think every single one of us on here want the same thing and are in full support of Ukraine. However it sometimes feels like we lose sense of how brutal war is. And there’s nothing heroic in writing off people hoping for peaceful outcomes as being on the wrong side, however unlikely their hopes might be.

Putin is evil. So is war. And it’s ****ing heartbreaking that we still live with horrible little ***** like him in a world that still has people wanting to kill one another.

Good post, this you're either with or against pish has been used by cretins throughout history to polarise opinions. There's no doubt in my mind that supporting Ukraine defeat Russian aggression is the right thing to do, however I'm not arrogant enough to believe everyone else who doesn't agree with me is against Ukraine, that's just stupid.

[Ozyhibby]

Good post, this you're either with or against pish has been used by cretins throughout history to polarise opinions. There's no doubt in my mind that supporting Ukraine defeat Russian aggression is the right thing to do, however I'm not arrogant enough to believe everyone else who doesn't agree with me is against Ukraine, that's just stupid.

I think that for once the west is calling this exactly right. There is no other option. There is nobody to negotiate with now. So calling for negotiations is pointless in my opinion.
The west has been appeasing Putin for a long time now and it’s now time to say enough.


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[Rumble de Thump]

I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to defend people who want peace. I would think almost everyone in the world would prefer there to be no wars, so it seems some people are talking at cross-purposes.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think that for once the west is calling this exactly right. There is no other option. There is nobody to negotiate with now. So calling for negotiations is pointless in my opinion.
The west has been appeasing Putin for a long time now and it’s now time to say enough.


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I think you're 100% correct, but other avenues of achieving peace need to be explored, this conflict can only end at the negotiating table.

[Smartie]

Everybody wants peace, they just disagree about the best way to achieve it and what price they’re prepared to pay.

[Ozyhibby]

I think you're 100% correct, but other avenues of achieving peace need to be explored, this conflict can only end at the negotiating table.

Until the Russian army collapses in Ukraine, the Russians won’t talk.


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[Hibrandenburg]

Until the Russian army collapses in Ukraine, the Russians won’t talk.


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There will come a point where they'll have to, but that's another discussion.

[Ozyhibby]

There will come a point where they'll have to, but that's another discussion.

I agree, I just don’t think that will be until their army collapses. At current loss rates, that’s likely to be in about 6 months.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think Noam Chomsky had it spot on when talking about Vietnam.

Protesters should not ask for negotiations but an immediate removal of American troops and material.

"As to negotiations there is in fact very little to negotiatiate. As long as American army occupation remains in Vietnam, the war will continue." "Those calling for negotiations are deluding themselves and others, just as those who now call for a ceasefire that will leave an American expeditionary force in Vietnam are not facing reality."


Spot on Noam except its a pity your view is the exact opposite for Ukraine, who you want to negotiatiate. Its not facing reality to ask for negotiations now. Russia won't stop and Ukrainians have made it clear they want to fight until the occupation has ended. Maybe for a change we in the West should listen to what Ukrainians want.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kavita_krishnan/status/1624388269852196865
Kavita Krishnan
@kavita_krishnan
Chomsky on Vietnam: stop demanding negotiations, demand unilateral withdrawal of US troops.

Chomsky on Ukraine: US must “stop blocking negotiations”, Ukraine must negotiate how much territory & autonomy it will surrender in exchange for Russia to end the invasion

[Ozyhibby]

I think Noam Chomsky had it spot on when talking about Vietnam.

Protesters should not ask for negotiations but an immediate removal of American troops and material.

"As to negotiations there is in fact very little to negotiatiate. As long as American army occupation remains in Vietnam, the war will continue." "Those calling for negotiations are deluding themselves and others, just as those who now call for a ceasefire that will leave an American expeditionary force in Vietnam are not facing reality."


Spot on Noam except its a pity your view is the exact opposite for Ukraine, who you want to negotiatiate. Its not facing reality to ask for negotiations now. Russia won't stop and Ukrainians have made it clear they want to fight until the occupation has ended. Maybe for a change we in the West should listen to what Ukrainians want.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kavita_krishnan/status/1624388269852196865
Kavita Krishnan
@kavita_krishnan
Chomsky on Vietnam: stop demanding negotiations, demand unilateral withdrawal of US troops.

Chomsky on Ukraine: US must “stop blocking negotiations”, Ukraine must negotiate how much territory & autonomy it will surrender in exchange for Russia to end the invasion

Being against everything in the west can be very lucrative.[emoji106]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23315574.stewart-mcdonald-russia-good-friends-england-doctrine/

A lot in here about SNP Ukraine policy.


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[StevieC]

If anyone thinks that any sort of peace deal can be negotiated with Putin they have lost their grip on reality.

Peace will be achieved once Russian troops have been removed from every part of Ukraine, and received such a bloody nose in the process that it results in some sort of regime change in Russia.

Anything other than that will be viewed as western weakness, and they will continue to push again at the earliest opportunity.

You have to remember that this war didn’t start last year, it started in 2014 and Russia has simply been biding their time for the next push to secure a land bridge to Crimea (because the west stood by and allowed them to take it in 2014). Moldova/Transnistra is what they’ll have their sights on next, and they’ll view annexing Kherson oblast south of the Dnepr as a stepping stone to then pushing to Odessa at some point in the future.

[WeeRussell]

If anyone thinks that any sort of peace deal can be negotiated with Putin they have lost their grip on reality.

Peace will be achieved once Russian troops have been removed from every part of Ukraine, and received such a bloody nose in the process that it results in some sort of regime change in Russia.

Anything other than that will be viewed as western weakness, and they will continue to push again at the earliest opportunity.

You have to remember that this war didn’t start last year, it started in 2014 and Russia has simply been biding their time for the next push to secure a land bridge to Crimea (because the west stood by and allowed them to take it in 2014). Moldova/Transnistra is what they’ll have their sights on next, and they’ll view annexing Kherson oblast south of the Dnepr as a stepping stone to then pushing to Odessa at some point in the future.

I agree, Stevie. As does, I think, everyone that has posted on this thread today 👍

I think something happening to the Kremlin Gremlin and change within Russia is still what the world is waiting on.

[Kato]

If anyone thinks that any sort of peace deal can be negotiated with Putin they have lost their grip on reality.




Nail on head.

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[WeeRussell]

I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to defend people who want peace. I would think almost everyone in the world would prefer there to be no wars, so it seems some people are talking at cross-purposes.

Spot-on.

🤚 I accept I’ve been responsible for much of that today and your OP was probably fair enough 👍

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/robinbrooksiif/status/1625126933171167235?s=46&t=5hBzecvY-WPQVxqcWbFpCw

Russia now bringing in less money from energy than pre war.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Astonishing figures of Russians leaving for other countries. Add in a minimum 200,000 young men killed or permanently disabled and Russia will have problems for generations

https://archive.ph/6iCI1

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war has set off a historic exodus of his own people. Initial data show that at least 500,000, and perhaps nearly 1 million, have left in the year since the invasion began — a tidal wave on scale with emigration following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.
Now, like then, the departures stand to redefine the country for generations. And the flood may still be in its early stages. The war seems nowhere near finished. Any new conscription effort by the Kremlin will spark new departures, as will worsening economic conditions, which are expected as the conflict drags on.

[cabbageandribs1875]

according to this France has advised it's citizens to leave Belarus, by Road, where's Peevmor for translating


(1) Irishmonk on Twitter: "France has told its citizens to leave Belarus immediately. BY ROAD. what do they know ? https://t.co/Lsk7WCrCyG" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/castlvillageman/status/1625151652968779778)

and here French Urged To Leave Belarus As Soon As Possible | Ukrainian news (ukranews.com) (https://ukranews.com/en/news/914838-french-urged-to-leave-belarus-as-soon-as-possible)



US has warned dual citizens to leave Russia immediately or they could risk wrongful detention, or conscription

US warns that dual citizens face Russian conscription - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64629156)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64626785?at_link_origin=BBCWorld&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=1E242F00-AC02-11ED-8FA9-E973FC756850&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_format=link&at_medium=social&at_campaign_type=owned&at_bbc_team=editorial

Moldova has closed its airspace.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/14/vuhledar-defenders-drones-russian-advance-donbas?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1676372818


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[Stairway 2 7]

Russia going full pelt before Ukraine get their western weapons, but no joy so far

The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
⚡️Wallace: 97% of Russian army is in Ukraine.

Russia has amassed almost its entire army in Ukraine, U.K. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace told BBC on Feb. 15. However, he said Russia has not been able “to punch through” Ukraine’s defenses

[Bridge hibs]

Russia going full pelt before Ukraine get their western weapons, but no joy so far

The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
⚡️Wallace: 97% of Russian army is in Ukraine.

Russia has amassed almost its entire army in Ukraine, U.K. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace told BBC on Feb. 15. However, he said Russia has not been able “to punch through” Ukraine’s defensesSaid on Gmtv this morning that Russia had amassed all their fighter jets, thought they only had a limited amout of jets left ?

[Stairway 2 7]

Phillips OBrien talked about that today on his twitter as did us secretary of defence. Why would Russia not use these assets in the summer when they were getting hammered and Ukraine had Soviet air defenses. Now that Ukraine has patriot missile defenses they are sending masses of planes to be shot down

Phillips P. OBrien
@PhillipsPOBrien
·
19h
Btw, the story of Russia 'massing' aircraft on the border in preparation for some major new offensive--well
@SecDef
poured alot of cold water on that. 'We currently dont see that' he said a few hours ago

The reporting of the last two weeks has verged on science fiction. Russia has had a year of losing its best pilots and many of its best aircraft. And now, with Ukraine having better air defenses than it had at the start of the war, and the Russian Air Force being weaker

we are supposed to see a major mass air offensive by the Russians that is going to deal a great blow to Ukraine? How are they supposed to do that? tbh, the Ukrainians would probably like the Russians to try a mass attack with fixed wing aircraft--considering Russian proficiency

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia building lots of defences behind the front and in Crimea. The Ukrainian offensive won't be pretty

https://mobile.twitter.com/bradyafr/status/1625593870322110467

[Lendo]

Said on Gmtv this morning that Russia had amassed all their fighter jets, thought they only had a limited amout of jets left ?

No idea about 4th gen fighters but thankfully they only managed to build about 20 of their 5th gen Su-57 and of that 20 about 10 are thought to be prototypes not fit for active service. Sanctions will have put a halt to their production.

[Stairway 2 7]

Brutal Brutal. Most of these lads are poor and often non ethnic Russian

@Volodymyr_D_
Losses in wars
I decided to compare losses in different wars in order to understand how big Russia's losses are in this war

Average daily losses of the main attacking country:
1. Germany (World War II) - 2415 killed soldiers per day.
2. USSR (Finnish War 1939) - 1440
3. Germany (World War I) - 1280
4. Russia (Ukrainian war 2022) - 380 (about 650 per day after mobilization).

5. North Korea (Korean War 1950) - 337
6. Russia (Russian-Japanese War 1904) - 115
7. Russia (First Chechen War 1994) - 22
8. USA (War in Vietnam 1964-75) - 20
9. USSR (Afghan War 1979-1989) - 4
10. USA (Iraq War 2003-2009) - 2

As we can see, Russia's daily losses are about 20 times greater than the US's losses in Vietnam and Russia's losses in the First Chechen War

Obviously, the duration and success of war depend on resources. And one of the most important resources of war is soldiers

In order to calculate the potential of a war, the ratio of average daily losses (killed and wounded) to the total number of engaged troops was chosen

The strength of the USSR army in the war against Finland in 1939 was 1 million soldiers.
Average losses - 3365 soldiers per day.
Loss intensity = 3365/1000000=0.336% per day

Below is an indicator of the intensity of losses of individual countries (attacking side) in various wars.
This indicator shows a fairly clear dependence of the duration of wars (wars that do not achieve complete success) on the intensity of losses

Protracted wars are characterized by a loss intensity of less than 0.05% per day. With a loss intensity of more than 0.3% per day, the war usually does not last more than 2-3 months.

Ru current rate of loss is about 0.144% per day. This may indicate that Russia will be able to continue the war for about two years. Prolonging the Russian war requires significant qualitative changes on the battlefield. Including the effectiveness of the use of soldiers

Given the relatively small number of forces, such dynamics of losses are unlikely to allow conducting a multi-year campaign

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/pauljawin/status/1625933576800768029?s=46&t=Ots34ILaIliF3t9yolQUmw

Grim.


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[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/pauljawin/status/1625933576800768029?s=46&t=Ots34ILaIliF3t9yolQUmw

Grim.


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Been deleted

[Ozyhibby]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/top-putin-war-official-marine-yankina-plunges-to-her-death/

Another window accident.


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[judas]

Until the Russian army collapses in Ukraine, the Russians won’t talk.


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I think the Russians are about as brainwashed by propaganda as we are over here.

Btw, did you know that we’ve to start disliking China and the Chinese now?

[Ozyhibby]

I think the Russians are about as brainwashed by propaganda as we are over here.

Btw, did you know that we’ve to start disliking China and the Chinese now?

Lucky we have you to keep us right.


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[judas]

Astonishing figures of Russians leaving for other countries. Add in a minimum 200,000 young men killed or permanently disabled and Russia will have problems for generations

https://archive.ph/6iCI1

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war has set off a historic exodus of his own people. Initial data show that at least 500,000, and perhaps nearly 1 million, have left in the year since the invasion began — a tidal wave on scale with emigration following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.
Now, like then, the departures stand to redefine the country for generations. And the flood may still be in its early stages. The war seems nowhere near finished. Any new conscription effort by the Kremlin will spark new departures, as will worsening economic conditions, which are expected as the conflict drags on.

It also acts as a disincentive to have children.

I wouldn’t have one if I were Russian or Ukrainian right now. It would be outright irresponsible.

[judas]

Lucky we have you to keep us right.


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I don’t claim to be right.

That may be the difference.

[judas]

Brutal Brutal. Most of these lads are poor and often non ethnic Russian

@Volodymyr_D_
Losses in wars
I decided to compare losses in different wars in order to understand how big Russia's losses are in this war

Average daily losses of the main attacking country:
1. Germany (World War II) - 2415 killed soldiers per day.
2. USSR (Finnish War 1939) - 1440
3. Germany (World War I) - 1280
4. Russia (Ukrainian war 2022) - 380 (about 650 per day after mobilization).

5. North Korea (Korean War 1950) - 337
6. Russia (Russian-Japanese War 1904) - 115
7. Russia (First Chechen War 1994) - 22
8. USA (War in Vietnam 1964-75) - 20
9. USSR (Afghan War 1979-1989) - 4
10. USA (Iraq War 2003-2009) - 2

As we can see, Russia's daily losses are about 20 times greater than the US's losses in Vietnam and Russia's losses in the First Chechen War

Obviously, the duration and success of war depend on resources. And one of the most important resources of war is soldiers

In order to calculate the potential of a war, the ratio of average daily losses (killed and wounded) to the total number of engaged troops was chosen

The strength of the USSR army in the war against Finland in 1939 was 1 million soldiers.
Average losses - 3365 soldiers per day.
Loss intensity = 3365/1000000=0.336% per day

Below is an indicator of the intensity of losses of individual countries (attacking side) in various wars.
This indicator shows a fairly clear dependence of the duration of wars (wars that do not achieve complete success) on the intensity of losses

Protracted wars are characterized by a loss intensity of less than 0.05% per day. With a loss intensity of more than 0.3% per day, the war usually does not last more than 2-3 months.

Ru current rate of loss is about 0.144% per day. This may indicate that Russia will be able to continue the war for about two years. Prolonging the Russian war requires significant qualitative changes on the battlefield. Including the effectiveness of the use of soldiers

Given the relatively small number of forces, such dynamics of losses are unlikely to allow conducting a multi-year campaign

What about daily loss of Russian soldiers in WW2. Surely in the list Stairway, no?

[Stairway 2 7]

What about daily loss of Russian soldiers in WW2. Surely in the list Stairway, no?

Think its saying Germany were the main attacking country, should be similar to that for battlefield losses maybe a bit below

The loss intensity for Russia won't be as high as the Finnish War. They had about 12 million soldiers at 1 time in ww2, we'll never see numbers like that again in you'd pray.

[Ozyhibby]

Been deleted

https://twitter.com/jayinkyiv/status/1626313010888278017?s=46&t=H3GPEjwE5tQ0chfQtPTqow


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[Hibrandenburg]

Think its saying Germany were the main attacking country, should be similar to that for battlefield losses maybe a bit below

The loss intensity for Russia won't be as high as the Finnish War. They had about 12 million soldiers at 1 time in ww2, we'll never see numbers like that again in you'd pray.

If you take the total number of Russian casualties against Germany in WW2 and divide that with the days they fought each other, then the Russian suffered about 6000 deaths per day.

[Stairway 2 7]

If you take the total number of Russian casualties against Germany in WW2 and divide that with the days they fought each other, then the Russian suffered about 6000 deaths per day.

Is it not 6,000,000 roughly in battle ÷ about 2100 days, so about 2,800 per day. Numbers are hard to verify from what I can see, millions died as POW's on top. That would be higher than Germany but Germany.

The numbers are for the invading army hence US being low in Vietnam and Iraq whilst the defenders would be much higher I presume.

Edit sorry I just seen you said against Germany they numbers will be higher than above as shorter as mines were whole war, but Germany the attacker so on his list

[cabbageandribs1875]

another Russian dies after falling out a window Senior Russian military official ‘plunges 16 storeys to her death falling from window’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/senior-russian-military-official-plunges-16-storeys-to-her-death-falling-from-window/ar-AA17AmsN?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=47fcf764f13b4607b6d933b845cc373c)


Liveuamap on Twitter: "Head of department of financial supply of Russian Western Military District Marina Yankina has committed suicide in St.Petersburg, falling out of the window https://t.co/WPDOj5oJln (https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1626234517886492675) #Russia https://t.co/MccCQUEMse" / Twitter

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it not 6,000,000 roughly in battle ÷ about 2100 days, so about 2,800 per day. Numbers are hard to verify from what I can see, millions died as POW's on top. That would be higher than Germany but Germany.

The numbers are for the invading army hence US being low in Vietnam and Iraq whilst the defenders would be much higher I presume.

Edit sorry I just seen you said against Germany they numbers will be higher than above as shorter as mines were whole war, but Germany the attacker so on his list

I just took the most conservative figure for casualties suffered at the hands of Germany and divided it by the amount of days they were at war, remember they were allies until 1941.

[Stairway 2 7]

I just took the most conservative figure for casualties suffered at the hands of Germany and divided it by the amount of days they were at war, remember they were allies until 1941.

Yeah I forgot about 41 and started at 39. I was shocked when I read at full force the Russians had 12 million soldiers. It really must have affected every single family of the nations involved.

Weird metric counting the attackers. I just read as I expected the north Vietnamese soldier deaths estimated at 1 million, an absolute brutal slaughter

[Stairway 2 7]

Uk military intelligence today said that they estimate 50% of wagner fighters are becoming casualties. You can see why they are choosing to risk staying in Russian prison

@jimsciutto
Staggering:

US estimates Wagner Group - the private military company run by Russian Oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin - has suffered more than 30,000 causalities, including roughly 9,000 dead, as intense fighting continues for city of Bakhmut in E. Ukraine, says John Kirby

[Ozyhibby]

Uk military intelligence today said that they estimate 50% of wagner fighters are becoming casualties. You can see why they are choosing to risk staying in Russian prison

@jimsciutto
Staggering:

US estimates Wagner Group - the private military company run by Russian Oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin - has suffered more than 30,000 causalities, including roughly 9,000 dead, as intense fighting continues for city of Bakhmut in E. Ukraine, says John Kirby

Not often you hear that staying in a Russian prison represents a healthy lifestyle choice.[emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/01/us-military-aid-to-ukraine-a-silver-bullet.html

Article from a year ago. Just about every sentence is wrong. Thankfully.


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[Jones28]

There’s a video of Putin during his meeting with Lukashenko and he either cannot control his feet due to illness, is on some mad hitler like cocktail of drugs or is a phenomenal actor.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/01/us-military-aid-to-ukraine-a-silver-bullet.html

Article from a year ago. Just about every sentence is wrong. Thankfully.


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The amount of experts that said a year ago that Russia was amassing the full force of its army just for training. A week today they said in huge articles how Russia would win very quickly.

Some of the same ones say its inevitable Russia will eventually bring out the big guns. God knows why they waited to lose the majority of its army, all its paratroopers, half their tanks, half their missles and a third of the land it took including the biggest city it took, before bringing the A team out

[Ozyhibby]

The amount of experts that said a year ago that Russia was amassing the full force of its army just for training. A week today they said in huge articles how Russia would win very quickly.

Some of the same ones say its inevitable Russia will eventually bring out the big guns. God knows why they waited to lose the majority of its army, all its paratroopers, half their tanks, half their missles and a third of the land it took including the biggest city it took, before bringing the A team out

I think the A team is already pushing up daisies.[emoji23]


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think the A team is already pushing up daisies.[emoji23]


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Yeah 80% of the famed Speznat trying to take Hostomel and a huge number of VDV paras too. I watched an interview with a Ukrainian soldier saying he literally couldn't believe these specialist soldiers were just getting dropped off wave after wave encircled like sitting ducks.

[Stairway 2 7]

Big news. The kerch bridge can be hit after they have fixed it

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1626955966196465665


Jimmy Rushton
@JimmySecUK
"The UK will be the first country to provide Ukraine with long range weapons" - British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. Also again confirms the UK will train Ukrainian pilots to NATO standards

[Glory Lurker]

US saying China is considering arming Russia and that will have consequences for relationship with the west.

On one hand it's no different to what we're doing. On the other it definitely would put China very much on the wrong side and rachet things up scarily. Got to hope they see sense.

[Bridge hibs]

US saying China is considering arming Russia and that will have consequences for relationship with the west.

On one hand it's no different to what we're doing. On the other it definitely would put China very much on the wrong side and rachet things up scarily. Got to hope they see sense.Thats not good, I thought China were pretty much staying out of it. Gutting to hear that they are supporting Putin in his war

[Hibrandenburg]

US saying China is considering arming Russia and that will have consequences for relationship with the west.

On one hand it's no different to what we're doing. On the other it definitely would put China very much on the wrong side and rachet things up scarily. Got to hope they see sense.

I've just got home from the MSC, China should be in no doubt about the measures and sanctions that will befall them should they decide to go down that road. If one thing positive has come out of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, then it has all but unanimously welded western resolve to act on a united front against aggression.

[judas]

US saying China is considering arming Russia and that will have consequences for relationship with the west.

On one hand it's no different to what we're doing. On the other it definitely would put China very much on the wrong side and rachet things up scarily. Got to hope they see sense.

It’s not surprising and I’m not sure exactly why it took China so long.

I think this is a foreign policy nightmare for the US.

Can the western world really win this one?

Is the balance of power set to change?

Is WW3 coming - is it already upon us?

Many questions.

[Glory Lurker]

It’s not surprising and I’m not sure exactly why it took China so long.

I think this is a foreign policy nightmare for the US.

Can the western world really win this one?

Is the balance of power set to change?

Is WW3 coming - is it already upon us?

Many questions.

Hopefully none need to be answered because China doesn't support a rogue state.

[Stairway 2 7]

Most commentators are saying that Blinken is saying it as a deterrent. China's foreign ministry has completely denied it and they said at Munich that they will stay neutral.

I can't see it they have nothing to gain from doing it and everything to lose financially